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News your connection to The Boston Globe The Most Authentic Restaurants Indian, Greek, Mexican, Thai, Italian, and more (Globe Staff Photo / Wendy Maeda) With the city awash in ethnic eateries, we set out to discover who really cooks it up right - whose shepherd's pie tastes straight from an Irish farmhouse kitchen, whose shredded pork in garlic sauce captures the genuine flavors of Shanghai, whose salmon tagine mimics true Moroccan cooking, whose tomato sauce is spot-on Sardinian, whose brown bread and baked beans would make longtime New Englanders proud. Hit these 29 restaurants, and take a virtual trip around the world. Italian, Northern and Southern Purists argue there is no true northern or southern Italian cuisine, only regional cuisine. Still, some generalizations can be made: Fare from the north favors rich cream sauces; the south tends to tomato-based toppings. Mamma Maria in the North End eschews red sauce, so we're calling it our northern Italian pick. It excels in offering traditional dishes. The elegantly decorated dining rooms, including one with space for just one table, cover two floors of a brick row house. Standouts include a perfect plate of salumi (cured meats) topped with delicious bread salad, a traditionally Tuscan dish of rabbit and hand-cut pappardelle, and osso buco with Milanese-style saffron risotto. The chocolate torte with mint gelato is a transcendent finish. Don't shy away from the schlocky name; Mamma Maria is as close as you'll get to northern Italian cooking the way it's meant to be done. A wonderful example of southern Italian cooking (really, southwestern, specifically Sardinian) can be found at Maurizio's, a North End restaurant with dining on two floors. You'll find ingredients native to Sardinia, like the pecorino Sardo, a sheep's milk cheese. Tilapia is served the Sardinian way, baked with Parmesan cheese on top. A pasta dish features a delicious combination of ground beef, lamb, and veal in a red-wine-and-tomato sauce with malloreddus - a small gnocchilike shell-shaped pasta made here with a saffron flavoring; the wonderful osso buco is served with lentils (saffron and lentils both are compliments of Sardinia's Arab invaders). The dolci list is short and honey-sweet, as it would be back on the sensible little island that inspired it. Mamma Maria, 3 North Square, Boston, 617-523-0077,; Maurizio's, 364 Hanover Street, Boston, 617-367-1123 Indian, Northern and Southern Indian cooking differs radically from region to region: Northern India is famous for its tandoori dishes, tomatoey curries, and flat-breads like nan and paratha; southern Indian food is mostly vegetarian, with creamy, often coconut-based sauces and condiments, and is usually served with some form of rice. Almost all of the Indian restaurants in the Boston area offer northern Indian food, with a few regional dishes thrown in. A great choice is Cafe of India in Harvard Square, where the tandoori chicken is succulent and done to a turn - no easy feat. Its saucy, mostly northern Indian curries are also quite good: the chicken tikka masala is tangy and complex, and the lamb dishes, like the rogan josh, are meltingly tender and flavorful. In Billerica, Masalaa Boston offers vegetarian dishes from the entire subcontinent but has plenty of south Indian options. Everything we've tried at this unassuming eatery has been fabulous, and the banana leaf-lined plates are a charming touch. The south Indian fare includes silky vegetable chetti-nadu curry, masala dosas (crispy crepes made of rice and lentil flour, stuffed with chunks of spicy potatoes), and fried idly (steamed rice patties sauteed with onions and spices). Other clear winners are the palak paneer (verdant, smoky with cumin, and studded with chunks of farmers' cheese) and malai kofta curry (tender vegetable dumplings bathed in a rich cream-and-cashew sauce). Cafe of India, 52A Brattle Street, Cambridge, 617-661-0683,; Masalaa Boston, 786 Boston Road/Route 3A, Billerica, 978-667-3443 New England To qualify as offering the area's most authentic New England cuisine, a restaurant must use typical regional ingredients - cranberries, squash, maple syrup, corn - prepared in ways instantly recognizable as ours. The Fireplace, with owner and Brooklyn native Jim Solomon tending the hearth, is such a place. True, it's not a bastion of history like those other restaurants whose names are part of the city's culinary lore, but its menu is rife with New England classics. Here you can find squash bisque with leeks, grilled-chicken-and-corn chowder, roast turkey with mushroom bread pudding, maple-glazed pork ribs, and apple-cranberry crisp. Add a wood-burning fireplace in the dining room, with fire-roasted meats to boot, and that's good enough for us. The Fireplace, 1634 Beacon Street, Brookline, 617-975-1900, Tu y Yo outside Somerville's Davis Square is where transplants from Mexico come to get their fix. This colorful family-style restaurant, called a fonda in Mexico, is where you'll find such delicacies as cuitlacoche, the addictively earthy corn fungus sometimes described as a Mexican truffle. It's where you'll find a deep, rich, complex mole verde, proving that in true Mexican cooking, mole doesn't necessarily include chocolate. This is not where you'll find a burrito, a strictly-for-the-gringos invention. The entrees fall under the heading "Mom's Cuisine," and next to each dish is the name of the recipe author and year. The presence of cuitlacoche depends on the owners' sources in Mexico, so it's not always available, but when it is, a must-try is the pollo Yunkaax (the Aztec god of maize), chicken stuffed with the corn fungus and covered in spinach sauce. Tu y Yo, 858 Broadway, Somerville, 617-623-5411, As soon as you enter Tangierino, you feel transported. Gauzy curtains divide the restaurant into sections, with seating available on couches and chairs, lighting provided by candles and decidedly dim (which makes menu reading a challenge), and Moroccan music playing in the background (and sometimes the foreground). Complimentary homemade Moroccan bread - chewy and soft-crusted, seasoned with fennel seeds - whets your appetite, along with light, lemony hummus and an olive puree. Authentic appetizers include harira, a chickpea-and-lentil soup tangy with lemon, tomatoes, parsley, and cilantro; it's served with a carved wooden spoon "like my grandmother had," claims a Moroccan native who once dined with us. A characteristic of Moroccan food is a combination of sweet with savory, as in the b'stila, flaky phyllo pastry filled with ground chicken and almonds, spiced with cinnamon, and sprinkled with powdered sugar. There is a wide choice of tagines, named for the domed clay pots in which they're cooked. A salmon tagine is redolent of cilantro, preserved lemon, and olives. For dessert, the authentic option is limited to a pastry tray of three: a fig turnover, a biscot-tilike cookie called fekkas, and a rose-water-scented baklava (the best of the bunch). Tangierino, 83 Main Street, Charlestown, 617-242-6009, Agni Charalambous Thurner, our Greek Cypriot friend, was skeptical the first time we took her to Ithaki Mediterranean Cuisine. Many Greek restaurants adapt their specialties for an American audience. But this Ipswich eatery, housed in a low white building and decorated with sunny Mediterranean colors and grand floral arrangements, doesn't veer when it comes to the classics. The dolmadakia, rolled grape leaves stuffed with savory ground beef and rice, are served with an intense avgo-lemono, the traditional egg-lemon sauce. "This is thickened just with eggs," says Thurner, "and it isn't heavy." The cinnamon-scented moussaka, layered eggplant slices and ground lamb (miraculously not oily), with a rich bechamel topping, is crusty in its terra-cotta dish. A dessert called galaktoboureko, an eggy custard in phyllo pastry that is all air and richness, is hard to find well-made anywhere. Alas, about a third of the menu is centered on other Mediterranean cultures. Authenticity reigns at Ithaki if you decide to eat like Homer. Ithaki Mediterranean Cuisine, 25 Hammatt Street, Ipswich, 978-356-0099, Boston has a particularly egregious dearth of authentic Spanish restaurants, though that may soon change, as the new BarLola recently started serving tapas in the Back Bay and Ken Oringer's take on the cuisine, Toro, is set to open this fall in the South End. For now, Taberna de Haro in Brookline is as close as it gets. The airy little yellow-walled place radiates a Spanish spirit of conviviality and an infectiously energetic approach to food and wine that puts to shame what passes for tapas at other faux-Mediterranean restaurants. At Taberna de Haro, the menu draws a distinction between raciones, meant to serve three or four diners a bite or two each, and pinchos, traditionally a finger-sized portion for one but here a little bigger. The glory is in the flavors, from the fiery sauce draping the patatas bravas (potatoes), to the smoky-sweet chorizo braised in hard cider, to the tender pulpo a la gallega (octopus) with potatoes, olive oil, and pimenton. While the best-known Spanish restaurants in the area have barely changed their menus in years, Taberna de Haro introduces new items and specials regularly. That's perhaps the truest Spanish quality of all. Taberna de Haro, 999 Beacon Street, Brookline, 617-277-8272 Sit at one of the well-worn tables (perhaps the one with an Emerald Isle expletive carved in it) at Matt Murphy's Pub in Brookline Village and just wait for one of the brisk waitresses to call you "luv." Have a midday meal of hearty oxtail soup or a plowman's lunch of spiced beef with pickles and brown soda bread. At dinner- time, consider one of these favorites: The shepherd's pie boasts tender lamb and a crisp potato crust, and the rabbit potpie is served with a crunchy rabbit leg and fruit chutney. It's food you would find in Irish farmhouse kitchens. Matt Murphy's Pub, 14 Harvard Street, Brookline, 617-232-0188, When we think of authentic food, we think of dishes made the same way for generations. But cuisine changes with the times. The monthly specials at Oga's Japanese Cuisine in Natick, one of the few sushi spots around that is actually Japanese-owned, showcase the ways that food is evolving in modern Japan. Sushi master Toru Oga creates miniature tableaus on the plate - one month it may be a checkerboard design of maguro (deep red tuna), yam, and seaweed dolloped with mullet roe. Kobe beef may show up as delicate and delectable carpaccio topped with pine nuts or as a hefty steak topped with amazingly fragrant Japanese mushrooms. Mushrooms might also pop up on skewers with scallops, shrimp, and zucchini, to be cooked by the diner on a hot stone. If only traditional sushi will do, Oga and his chefs do a stellar job of that, too, spinning out fantasies of sparkling fresh sashimi and elaborate maki rolls. Though the rest of the seating is comfortable, the best treat comes if you successfully angle for a spot along the bar to watch the chefs work. You could almost be in Toyko. Oga's Japanese Cuisine, 915 Worcester Road, Natick, 508-653-4338, If you're looking for something on the lighter side, keep right on walking past this Dorchester institution. But if it's stick-to-the-ribs braised or fried foods you crave, Chef Lee's II Soul Food is where it's at. The food is served with a generous hand and a warm smile, from smothered chicken livers to fried pork chops, from pig's feet to oxtails. The sides are what you'd expect for classic Southern fare - collards, black-eyed peas, beans and rice, candied yams, and more. Expect a long line at lunch, when the regulars patiently wait their turn at this cafeteria-style joint. (But while you're waiting, check out the impressive photo gallery of African-American luminaries like Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, and Martin Luther King Jr.) Then grab a seat at one of the tables by the window, or get your grub to go. Either way, be prepared to have little room left for dessert but plenty of cash left in your wallet. It's good eats - and cheap. Chef Lee's II Soul Food, 554 Columbia Road, Dorchester, 617-282-2243 Wonderfully authentic food can be found at Fasika Ethiopian Restaurant. Don't let the seen-better-days exterior deter you from entering. Inside, you can choose from two seating areas: The front of the restaurant offers standard tables and chairs, while the back features low-backed chairs and mesobs, woven wicker tables less than 2 feet in diameter. On the mesob, your server will place a platter of injera, a huge spongy pancake, atop of which sits the entrees your table has ordered. You'll also receive a side of more injera. Tear off a bit and use it to scoop up your dinner. Fasika makes its injera the authentic way with teff, a tiny grain in the millet family that is high in protein and has a slightly sourdough flavor. The pancake is a perfect foil to the spicy meat, bean, or vegetable stews, such as misir wet, red lentils seasoned with a chili mixture called berbere. An appetizer salad, timatim fitfit, is an Ethiopian version of a bread salad - torn bits of injera are tossed with tomato and lemon juice. If you're up for it, end your meal the traditional way: with coffee and kitfo, a spiced beef tartare. Fasika Ethiopian Restaurant, 23 South Huntington Avenue, Jamaica Plain, 617-731-3833 Thailand-born Dan Tanabat - co-owner with three other Thais of Patou Thai in Belmont - spent years at a Texas country club (where he learned the customer was never wrong) while training in hospitality at a local college there, finished his schooling at Johnson & Wales University in Providence, and then opened this elegant restaurant. At first glance of the menu, you see all the curries you might find at any of a number of Thai places and, of course, pad Thai. But look closer. There is nothing ordinary here, and it's all wonderfully authentic. (The furthest Patou ventures from his country's classic cuisine is a pan-seared halibut in red curry sauce, made with typical ingredients but presented in a more stylish fashion than Tanabat sees at home.) Our favorites include a vinegary salad with shrimp topped with slender strands of crunchy green papaya that are addictively good. Garden rolls have such thin skins that you can see through them to the big flat leaves of Thai basil rolled up with rice vermicelli, chicken, and crunchy vegetables. The cooks in the kitchen make a wonderful creation for themselves - tiny pieces of halibut skin dropped into the deep-fat fryer until they curl and crunch - that Tanabat sends out to regular diners. This is a dish that fishermen's families ate, because after they sold the fish, the skin was all that remained. You can't get closer to authentic than that. Patou Thai, 69 Leonard Street, Belmont, 617-489-6999 Kosher, Ashkenazic and Sephardic In the world of kosher cuisine, two traditions have evolved: Ashkenazic, that is, European-style cooking, and Sephardic, the cuisine of Jews from primarily Middle Eastern and North African countries. For classic Ashkenazic food, head to Rubin's Kosher Restaurant Delicatessen in Brookline. The ambience is nothing special - with Formica tables and vinyl booths - but the menu is overwhelming. All the traditional items are offered, from chopped liver to chicken soup with kreplach (a dumpling filled with ground beef) to slow-cooked brisket. Best are the New York deli-style sandwiches (on rye or pumpernickel, of course) stuffed with lean corned beef, hot pastrami, tongue, or smoked turkey breast. And the nondairy "cheese" cake is surprisingly good. Rami's, just a few blocks down the street from Rubin's, serves up terrific Sephardic Israeli kosher cuisine. The menu is small, but what the restaurant does it does very well: hummus, falafel, baba ganoush, and Israeli salad made with chopped tomatoes, cucumbers, and pickled cabbage. The house specialty is shawarma, meat - in this case, marinated turkey - layered onto a spit and slow cooked with spices; it's sliced to order and finished on the grill. There's also kebab, oblongs of ground beef seasoned with garlic and parsley. Enjoy with a can of mango juice for a true kosher Israeli experience. You order at the counter, and there are a handful of tables. Rubin's Kosher Restaurant Delicatessen, 500 Harvard Street, Brookline, 617-731- 8787,; Rami's, 324 Harvard Street, Brookline, 617-738-3577 No local place re-creates a little slice of France better than Craigie Street Bistrot, in a residential area just outside of Harvard Square. Perhaps it's the warm, restful, efficient atmosphere. It could be the friendly staff, which really know its French cuisine. It certainly is the fine wines and the food - from the ethereal green garlic nage in a coquillage of mussels, crab, and Maine shrimp to the velvety braised pig tails over Puy lentils to the succulent veal sweet-breads with black truffle shavings. Chef-owner Tony Maws exhibits exacting French cooking techniques and dedication to his fresh ingredients. The menu changes daily and reflects the best of the market. Maws's perfectionism recalls the legendary and exacting 17th-century French chef Vatel - and you almost shudder to think what might happen should the fish delivery not arrive. Craigie Street Bistrot, 5 Craigie Circle, Cambridge, 617-497-5511, The Monzer family from Beirut opened Reef Cafe almost two years ago, offering the cooking of Lebanon prepared by mother Mariam. The small restaurant boasts a large television turned to an Arabic station. The food, says son Salam, "is very homemade." Mariam makes the laban, a thick yogurtlike cream, from scratch, along with the traditional white garlic sauce, a potent mixture whipped from lots of garlic and oil. Her chicken-and-potato stew, barely seasoned so you reach for the garlicky sauce, is served with rice, slender spears of pink turnip pickles, and chopped salad. One of the most unusual items on the menu is a grassy bowl of soup made with lentils simmered in water with potatoes, onions, and celery and flecked with chopped hearty greens. You can imagine centuries of women stirring this simple, flavorful pot. In a strip mall across from Randolph High School, Tony and Tammy Do run the year-old Pho So 1 Boston. He makes the soups (the famous Vietnamese pho) while she serves the customers or makes dishes like the crisp salads topped with shrimp or poultry and grilled meats served on glassy vermicelli or steamed rice. The sour ground-pork spring rolls have a gutsy and piquant filling of vinegary salad with a sausagey pork nugget. Like the rolls, other dishes have touches not often found at Vietnamese eateries. Chicken noodle pho is aromatic with gingerbread spices and deep brown from beef stock. Besides the traditional bun, a mound of rice noodles topped with shredded lettuce, bean sprouts, and grilled meats, Pho So 1 Boston offers "rice on a plate," a dozen variations of grilled succulent meats - such as honey-coated chicken thighs - on rice with crisp vegetables. Tony Do's parents, Huong and Thu, own a restaurant by the same name in Dorchester; when the family moved to Randolph and saw the large Asian community there, they decided to open another one. The only variation from the cooking of their homeland are a few Chinese dishes, which Tammy says they make for some customers who don't want to try real Vietnamese food. Pho So 1 Boston, 51 Memorial Parkway, Randolph, 781-961-6500 Bacalhau, or salt cod, is the definitive food of Portugal, so much of a staple that it's sometimes referred to as "o fiel amigo," the faithful friend. At O'Cantinho in Cambridge, bacalhau is on the menu, to be sure. It appears baked with caramelized onions, fried as little cakes, and stuffed into sandwiches. But it's just the beginning of the definitively Portuguese dishes served here. Fava beans are stewed to tenderness and laced with slices of the garlicky sausage linguica. Soft white cheese is drizzled with a tangy red vinaigrette and set beside slices of spicy ham. And almost all of the entrees showcase the country's abundant seafood, like stews of shellfish or pork loin with clams. But what really makes it feel as if you're in Portugal is the warm atmosphere. The saffron-colored room is cozily small and decorated with blue-and-white pottery, the owner's children hang out here during the day, and the waitress won't let you take your leftover arroz de mariscos (seafood-studded saffron rice) home unless you promise to refrigerate it promptly. One of O'Cantinho's sister restaurants, Atasca on Broad- way, recently closed; to fill the void, O'Cantinho has added a wider-ranging dinner menu and a short but sweet selection of beer and Portuguese wines. What a faithful friend. O'Cantinho, 1128 Cambridge Street, Cambridge, 617-354-3443 You know you're in Turkish heaven when the cooks prepare eggplant in dozens of ways, each more inventive and delicious than the next. At Family Restaurant Brookline, the purple-skinned fruits can be ordered, for example, pureed and creamy (for spreading on the homemade bread), cooked with tomatoes to make a cold salad, or stuffed with ground meat for a striking entree - all dishes with roots firmly in the Ottoman Empire. This modest Brookline Village eatery for many years was a dinerlike restaurant where hearty breakfasts and ordinary American fare reigned (hence the name). When Turkish owners took over, they kept the name and the breakfast and lunch menus, but added their kebabs and other specialties. So you don't know where you've landed until you taste the eggplant and Turkish dishes. The famous adana kebab, delectable ground lamb pressed onto skewers, comes with a pool of yogurt sauce mixed with croutons. Warm cheese pitas are housemade, spread with feta cheese and shaped into ovals so they look like golden boats with creamy tops. A peasant dish of green beans, simmered with tomatoes and lamb until the beans have practically melted, could only be served at a place without any pretense. The kind waitresses struggle with English, but they're patient and happy to explain their cuisine. Many dishes are garnished with a single hot pepper and whole tomato, both lightly charred. Turkish food is a delightful mixture of aromatics, rich meats, crisp salads, long-cooked vegetables, mild heat, and intense flavors. Sip a cold Turkish beer and huddle over the aromas as they're sent from the kitchen, and you could mistake this place for Istanbul. Family Restaurant Brookline, 305 Washington Street, Brookline, 617-277-4466 In a Korean restaurant, one authenticity test is the panchan, or little side dishes that come with the meal. New Jang Su, in a nondescript strip mall in Burlington, passes this test, and others, beautifully. On a recent visit, the waitress set out six panchan, including fish cakes, pickled radishes, and two fiery kimchis (one cucumber, one cabbage). And then the barbecue bonanza began. She unrolled a thin strip of meat connected to a short rib, snipped it off, and placed it on the table's built-in grill, where it sizzled next to shaved beef. One noteworthy dish is the chap jae, with glassy noodles just sticky enough and brimming with bright vegetables. The restaurant is divided in two, one side with the built-in barbecue grills at the tables, and one without. The barbecue side is always packed, and with precious few exceptions, always with Koreans. New Jang Su, 260 Cambridge Street, Burlington, 781-272-3787 Chinese, Shanghai and Sichuan Restaurant lore may dictate that only grungy holes in the wall offer "real" ethnic food. So it must follow that CK Shanghai - with crisp white tablecloths, a decent wine list, and a handsomely appointed room, and in Wellesley to boot - could never qualify. Wrong. C.K. Sau, who owned New Shanghai in Chinatown for more than a decade, moved to the suburbs, and with him came the most delicate and delicious dishes possible from his native region in China. Cold appetizers like crisp, sweet, tangy cucumbers or vegetarian goose - tofu crisped to resemble the skin of the bird and then stuffed with a filling of crunchy bamboo shoots and mushrooms - tease the palate. Sea scallops in a startlingly addictive black pepper sauce, lobster in a winy sauce with tomatoes, shredded pork in a sweet-hot garlic sauce, a whole fish studded with pine nuts in a brightly flavored sweet-and-sour sauce - the dishes go on and on like a gourmet's hit parade. Interested in Chinese fare from the Sichuan Province? Head to Medford. Zheng Hu, the proprietor of Chilli Garden, insists on importing her peppercorns from Sichuan, where she grew up. Not only that, they must be last year's crop. The chili powder is imported, too, and ground by hand. Spices such as star anise, cloves, cassia bark, and dried sand ginger are all shipped from China, and all are part of what makes her restaurant the most authentic Sichuan experience to be had in these parts. Bacon is smoked in the kitchen of the little restaurant, in a slice of shops off of Medford Center. The payoff is in eating Chilli Garden's food. Cold noodles look pale and modest until the fiery red chili sauce is twirled into them; then they take on a yin-yang quality, hot-bright against the tongue, cushioned by the gentle texture of the noodles. Whole fish in spicy sauce tingles at the back of the mouth as the fish melts on your palate. Wild boletus mushrooms with bits of green pepper are earthy, a taste of autumn. And for those who seek the exotic - at least to Western tastes - there are many dishes like pork tripe with garlic and cucumber, beef tongue with napa cabbage and chili powder, and duck feet with spicy soy sauce. Although the menu includes many Mandarin dishes, Hu and her staff try to steer the diner toward the Sichuan specialties. After all, what good is Chilli Garden's obsession with authenticity unless others can taste the results? CK Shanghai, 15-17 Washington Street, Wellesley, 781-237-7500; Chilli Garden, 41 Riverside Avenue, Medford, 781-396-8488 Churrascarias, the buffet-style restaurants where skewers of meat are brought to you tableside, are all the rage in local Brazilian dining, but for an equally authentic (and cheaper) experience, check out Padaria Brasil Bakery. This no-frills store, with locations in Allston, Milford, and Framingham, lets you sample traditional fare that you won't find in most Brazilian restaurants. For a filling breakfast, a hearty slab of dense yucca-coconut bread hits the spot, but skip the coffee and wash it down with tangy caldo de cana (sugar-cane juice). Flaky chicken potpies and cheese rolls are tasty afternoon snacks, and you can take home a loaf of fresh bread for your dinner table. The selection can be overwhelming, but luckily the staff is happy to make recommendations. Padaria Brasil Bakery, 125 Harvard Avenue, Allston, 617-202-6783; 173 Main Street, Milford, 508-422-9840; 165 Concord Street, Framingham, 508-872-8698; 63 Hollis Street, Framingham, 508-872-2677 In a Class by Themselves A few gems stand alone - literally. Either they are the only game in town, or what little competition they have doesn't come close. Competition may make you stronger, but these four don't need to be pushed. They are superb all by themselves. The Helmand has a unique edge on the few other restaurants serving Afghan fare: The owner is the older brother of Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai. But long before Karzai became president, the cozy spot in East Cambridge was renowned for its succulent kebabs, fragrant rices, and bread made in a wood-burning stove. Try the aushak, ravioli filled with leeks, on a sauce of yogurt, mint and garlic, and topped with ground beef. The Helmand, 143 First Street, Cambridge, 617-492-4646 Born in Cambodia, Longteine de Monteiro, along with her family, brought her country's wide variety of culinary flavors to the area in 1991, and The Elephant Walk has been a local favorite ever since, spawning two more locations. Perennial favorites include s'gnao mouan, a wonderfully tangy chicken soup with lemongrass, lime juice, and Asian basil, and the deeply flavorful Alaskan black cod in a soy-garlic marinade, drizzled with ginger- coconut sauce. The Elephant Walk, 900 Beacon Street, Boston, 617-247-1500; 2067 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, 617-492-6900; 663 Main Street, Waltham, 781-899-2244; Chez Henri is making some of the best French- Cuban food around, using ingredients such as plantains, yucca, chayote, and mango. The food, while an inspired take on island cuisine, can't really be called authentic, but the Cuban sandwich on the bar menu is the tastiest this side of Miami. It's filled with rum-and-molasses marinated pork, ham, Gruyere cheese, and pickles and served with plantain chips. Chez Henri, 1 Shepard Street, Cambridge, 617-354-8980, At La Casa De Pedro, chef-owner Pedro Alarcon serves the food of his native Venezuela in a cheerful dining room decorated with paintings of tropical birds and flowers. He gives his late mother, Leda Rios, a lot of credit for his food, from the sopa de Mama (Mom's chicken soup) to Leda's pargo, a succulent, lightly fried whole red snapper tossed with onions and balsamic vinegar. For a real Latin experience, sit in the secluded back courtyard and sip sangria. La Casa De Pedro, 51 Main Street, Watertown, 617-923-8025, top magazine articles Today (free) Yesterday (free) Past 30 days Last 12 months Advanced search / Historic Archives	http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/10/09/the_most_authentic_restaurants/?page=full	<urn:uuid:dc24688f-ddec-49ab-9d91-0becc05bbb43>	en	0.932687	0.026373
iOS app Android app More SUZETTE LABOY \| August 17, 2013 12:03 AM ET ISLAMORADA, Fla. -- Sharks abound in the waters off Florida. But not on this day at this particular spot off the Keys as some `young scientists' are on watch for them. About a dozen high school students – guests of the University of Miami's marine research program – went aboard the vessel Curt-A-Sea. Their mission: to help scientists capture sharks, measure them, take blood and conduct other tests before tagging them so they can be tracked. The sharks would then be released back into the ocean. Shark Series Part 2 SidneyAnne Stone \| July 31, 2013 10:21 AM ET If you are not familiar with shark finning, it is a brutal process in which the shark's fin is removed for the purpose of making shark fin soup. The shark is then thrown back into the water where he/she is unable to swim and drowns to death. For a graphic clip of an actual occurrence of shark finning, click here. It is my hope that after viewing this clip you will want to join the fight to protect sharks. Many in the ocean conservation community know what a problem shark finning is and what a threat it poses to the environment. Further, any major disruption to our ecosystem stands to threaten our entire existence. Much like the butterfly effect, when you kill a shark, you just don't know what kind of impact that can have on our environment. By eliminating an apex predator, you set off a chain of dominoes and there is no telling where they may stop. The amount of gross overfishing that has occurred in recent years may have already caused enough damage to cause certain species to become extinct in our lifetime. Organizations like Oceana allow you to log on and make your opinions known about the practice of shark finning. Just last week, Governor Andrew Cuomo signed a bill banning the trade of shark fins in the state of New York. While shark finning was already illegal in waters off New York, this also makes it illegal to trade shark fins in the state -- further enforcing New York's intolerance for the practice. Governor Cuomo stated, "Not only is the process inhumane, but it also affects the natural balance of the oceanic ecosystem." As my readers know, I am always a proud New Yorker but particularly at moments like these. Unfortunately, New York is in the minority on this issue so speak up and write to your local representatives, senators, Congress and governor and advocate for the environment that we all share! Matt Rutherford's Mission to Make Ocean Research Affordable Lesleyann Coker \| May 21, 2013 2:27 PM ET In 2012, Matt Rutherford became the first person to solo circumnavigate North and South America. He completed the non-stop 27,000 mile journey in 10 months in a tiny, old sailboat. During the course of his epic journey, the then 31-year-old capsized in the Arctic battling waves, avoided being smashed by a tanker and navigated a maze of icebergs large and small. In South America, he experienced Cape Horn's famous beauty and cruel winds. He also faced the literal doldrums - areas near the equator without any wind. And all while spending more than 300 days in complete solitude. Politicians monitored his progress, and a documentary for the Sundance Film Festival is in the works. Now the ambitious sailor has launched a non-profit company, Ocean Research Project, which aims to identify new, lower-cost methods of conducting ocean research. At the beginning of May, he set sail on his latest adventure in the Atlantic. Before his departure from St. Katharine docks in London, he spoke to Lesleyann Coker. In 2012, you became the first person to solo circumnavigate the Americas and the Northwest Passage. What motivated you to attempt such a journey? It all started as a fundraiser for a local Annapolis-based non-profit called C.R.A.B [Chesapeake Regional Assessable Boating]. At this point I've raised over $120,000 for the non-profit by doing the trip. I'm also a great admirer of [Ernest] Shackleton, and his story inspired me to try something that most people thought was impossible. How did you get started in sailing? I bought a little 25-foot boat from the '60s back in 2004 and sailed it from the Chesapeake Bay to the Florida Keys. I knew nothing about sailing when I left. I made every mistake possible, but over time I taught myself the skills necessary to cross oceans, and eventually, sail around the Americas. What's your connection to Senator Tom Harkin and Governor Martin O'Malley? Martin's wife, Katie, saw me off the dock the day before I left and I've been invited to their house several times since my return. Tom spoke about me on the floor of the Senate after I passed Cape Horn. He has shown an avid interest in my story. Tom Harkin is an old school Democrat who understands how important it is to reach across the aisle. He will be missed [after he retires next year], especially on environmental issues. 2013-05-20-IMG_1766.JPGThe Sailing Channel has produced a documentary about you, Red Dot in the Ocean. What's its status? It looks like we may get into Sundance if it's done in time. Nothing is guaranteed. They approached me to make a documentary, and after a month of "contract negotiations'" we started the film. Here's the trailer. You recently founded a new 501c non-profit called Ocean Research, which aims to dramatically lower the cost of conducting ocean research. What are the typical costs of ocean research, and what will be your costs? How will you approach the problem differently? The typical running costs for scientific research in the open ocean is between $6,000 and $15,000 a day, depending on the organization. With Ocean Research Project, for our first expedition we have a daily running cost of $73 a day. We're living in a changing economic environment; you can no longer think big boats, big crew, big budget. Instead, a non-profit should think small boat, small crew, small budget. By doing this, you not only reduce the cost of the expedition, but also the overhead. All too often when $100 is donated to a non-profit, $90 goes to salary, renting office space, paying the electric bill, etc. With Ocean Research Project, the majority of the funds raised go to the mission. What will be the implication of reducing the cost of ocean research? More research? Why is ocean research important? Once you have reduced the cost of the expeditions, you can travel farther for longer and collect more data. There's still a prehistoric way of thinking within much of the general scientific community. Too many scientists think the organization that spends the most money or has the biggest research vessel somehow collects the best data. The reality of the matter is that by working with universities and bringing along one or two scientists who bring their own equipment and are trained to use them properly, you can collect a wide variety of important data about our changing oceans. It's true, we cannot have submarines and helicopters, but most research is done by equipment that can be installed or carried onboard a 40-50 foot sailboat. Ocean research is important because we are all affected by the ocean no matter where you live. The ocean not only produces food for 25 percent of the world's population, but also produces between 50-75 percent of the world's oxygen through Phytoplankton, which lives in the ocean. The problem is the ocean is not part of any country, and it's out of sight out of mind. There has not been enough research done within the open ocean because in the past scientists have tried to collect important data with big boats and big budgets. I sailed 27,000 miles, over the top of Canada and around Cape Horn on a 27-foot boat without stopping. I can tell you from experience you do not need a 150-foot, two million dollar boat to cross an ocean or do good research. You're about to embark on a research mission [he embarked the first week of May]. Where are you going, what are you researching, and what do you expect to learn? MR: During our first expedition we will be at sea for 75 days collecting data, while sailing 6,500 miles of the Atlantic Ocean. The Atlantic Ocean is home to the Atlantic Garbage Patch and coincides with one of the five major oceanic gyres. The Sargasso Sea Gyre is a huge spiral of seawater formed by colliding currents. Most offshore sailors have seen floating junk on the high seas, but it's a problem that has not been thoroughly explored in the mid-Atlantic. It's the poster child for one of the worldwide ocean problems: plastic that's initially created with human hands, then ends up in the ocean, often found inside animals' stomachs. We have several objectives for this expedition: We'll conduct a Sargasso Sea marine debris reconnaissance survey using standardized data collection methods. This study will add to the global understanding of quantity of marine debris in the gyre and will stimulate awareness of the consequences of manmade debris. This project is run in collaboration with our Partner 5 Gyres. We'll conduct ocean acidification data collection to supplement existing efforts to portray the acidity condition within a gyre in an open ocean marine debris laden environment. This data may reveal a significant concentration of high acidic marine water that may jeopardize the livelihood of critical marine life. The vessel will act as a mobile observing platform reporting atmospheric and oceanic observations to NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration]. It serves as a voluntary observing ship to feed international atmospheric and oceanic modeling databases that depict global weather forecasts, climate studies, and support mariners' safety at sea. Work will be in cooperation with our partners which include NOAA's Voluntary Observing Ship, the Ship of Opportunity Program and the Atlantic Oceanic and Meteorological Laboratory. What are the dangers involved in this research project? There is always danger in the vast open ocean. That said, reward lives in the house of risk. I can teach a person the skills necessary to cross an ocean alone, but I can't teach the mentality a person needs to sail alone across an ocean. Either you've got it or you don't. If you don't learn to control fear, fear will control you. Exploration is the physical expression of intellectual passion. How can people follow the progress of your journey, or support your non-profit? You can follow the expedition at There will be a tracking device on the boat so you can see our position, and a weekly blog so you can hear the story as it's happening. You can also donate on the website. Photo Credit; Matt Rutherford Want to Save Starving Sea Lion Pups? Here's How Megan Pincus Kajitani \| March 18, 2013 11:26 AM ET Tears streamed down my 7-year-old daughter's face this cloudy, March morning, as we watched the plight of a lone female California sea lion pup, clearly exhausted, struggling to keep her head above water and get herself to our local beach's jetty. The Sea Lions' Struggle In our city of Carlsbad, Calif., just up the coast from downtown San Diego, at least 40 malnourished, young California sea lions have been rescued since January. According to a local news story, about 150 malnourished or injured sea lions are typically rescued in our region each year -- but this year, from Jan. 1 to not even mid-March, there have already been 130 rescued. This morning when we called the local sea animal rescue center about the stranded pup, their voicemail said they are extremely busy. A spokesperson from there told the local news that there's "something going on out in the ocean" in relation to our sea lions' food supply. Clearly. The Bigger Picture But here's the thing: This isn't just a local issue, and it isn't just about this specific group of sea lions' food supply. Something is going on with all marine mammals' food supply. Something major is happening with all of our ocean ecosystems. These malnourished pups are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Dr. Bruce Monger, an oceanographer at Cornell University, told my class in eCornell's Plant-Based Nutrition Certificate Program that we as a society have "maxed out the ocean." Many marine scientists believe that, at the rate we're going, the seas will be barren by 2048. (Did you get that? No sea life in 35 years!) Like the roaming plains buffalo shot by humans to extinction, Dr. Monger says, we can extract every single animal out of the ocean. And with commercial fisheries not just taking all the fish but also seabirds, sharks, dolphins, turtles and every other kind of sea animal (most thrown out by the trawlers, dead, as "bycatch"), we are doing just that. The sea lions of the Pacific Rim and Alaska are now endangered because, Dr. Monger explains, fishing "took away all their food, and they are starving to death." I contacted Dr. Monger this week and asked him about the California sea lions: Are they next? He told me scientists are studying two main factors likely causing the crisis with this species: overfishing and climate issues. But, clearly, he said, "the sea lion pups are probably starving because their mothers are starving." Clearly. You Can Help Save Them So, here's the other thing: You can actually do something to stop this ocean crisis, whether you live here on the coast, in the middle of farmland or on a mountaintop. We all can. I get that it's hard, I'm a former sushi lover myself, but we must stop eating fish. There simply are not enough fish left to keep them on our plates, and still leave enough to keep our ocean animals alive. Period. I've heard all the justifications, and my replies go something like this: • You can still do your sushi ritual, just do it with veggies instead of fish (as my half-Japanese, sushi-loving husband and I now happily do). • Farmed fisheries are no better, with incredibly high rates of disease, which is unhealthy, inhumane and harms wild fish as well. • Eating land animal meat is also harming the oceans, by the way. An amazing fifty percent of the world's fish catch is fed to industrial farm animals, not to people (as Dr. Will Tuttle explains in The World Peace Diet). And nitrogen runoff from those factory farms is creating huge "dead zones" where no sea life can survive. The good news is that pleasurable, healthy, social eating is possible with plant-based food. It just takes making the choice -- to help animals rather than eat them. Actually, Dr. Monger believes it's both personal choice and political will that will save or destroy our oceans: Beyond urging us to avoid eating fish and other meat, he urges us to speak out against the government subsidies that fuel overfishing. "The fish in the ocean are as much yours as the fishing industries', and if you would rather see your fish left in the ocean, you have the right to speak up and ask your leaders to help," he says. "If you remain silent about it, someone is going to step in and take [your ocean life] away from you for their own profit." The Next Generations This morning, my sniffling 7-year-old asked me why the malnourished sea lion we watched could not find food. As fishing boats trawled closer to shore than I've ever seen them, I wanted to tell her that the sea lion and her brothers and sisters will find food. That they have plenty of food to find. That the ocean is ripe with life. But, the truth is, I can't tell her that, because as each day passes, it is becoming less true. I told my daughter instead that we can make a difference for that sea lion by calling the rescue center to help her. And on a bigger scale, we can make a difference for all sea lions, by not eating their food and by educating others about their dwindling food supply. Through her tears, my daughter asked me if I could educate more people today. So, I'm writing this piece today for my daughter, for the sea lions and all the animals, and for the future. Before it's too late -- at the very least -- please do your part to save our ocean animals by letting the fish be food for them, and not for you. Janie Campbell \| December 15, 2012 7:55 AM ET Some people say -- and they make a good case -- that to understand Miami you have to understand the forces and influences of the drug trade, money, and Cuban immigration. Or you can look at the corals, according to Colin Foord and Jared McKay, the UM-trained marine biologist and experimental musician who form the scientific artist duo Coral Morphologic. The pair tie their work, which involves not only growing but filming and soundtracking corals in their glowing Overtown aquaculture lab, to Miami's distinction as the only mainland U.S. city on a coral reef, with corals even growing inside the city limits. You might even blame the tropical polyps for those vibrant "I'm In Miami, Bitch" tank tops. "There aren't any other life forms on the planet that are as natural fluorescent as living corals; this is something that wasn't even really observable by mankind until 50 years ago," Foord told HuffPost. "The colors of Miami -- these bright neon colors -- have always been the essence of the city before the city was even here. The cement in the buildings is made from the ground-up skeletons of fossilized coral. The colorful essence is literally built into the city." Colonies of corals, Foord says, also reflect who we are as a 21st century metro. It's a concept he and McKay have highlighted by projecting them onto South Beach buildings during Art Basel, onto AmericanAirlines Arena, and during festivals in Britain, Sundance, and Miami's own Borscht Film Festival. Saturday night at Borscht 8, they'll debut a new work called "Fungia." Their "scientific and artistic exploration of living coral reef organisms... radiated the most beautiful and unexpected work I saw," wrote curator Patterson Sims, the man behind four Whitney Biennial exhibitions, after an arts tour of Miami in April. (Story continues below.) By using their carefully tended, DIY aquariums to both create and fund their art -- a side business selling cloned corals to aquarium owners helps keep the lab lights on and the artists and animals in constant symbiosis -- the pair not only highlight the Magic City's incredibly rich and unique makeup, but draw multiple parallels between reefs and humanity. "We really see corals as futuristic organisms," Foord explains. "They're very modern. We live in a time when the world that you're born into is totally different than you die in; it necessitates that you're constantly adapting to technology. It's a changing world and the actual biosphere is also now changing more than ever. Being that they're cemented in place, [adapting] is just what corals have been doing for millions and millions of years." But our corals point not only to Miami's past and present, but future. "If given the chance -- if sea levels are to rise -- the corals will happily move back into the city and start growing on our infrastructure," Foord said. "We already know they're growing inside the city limits on our trash. This is the flip side of projecting onto buildings. Miami has always been an ephemeral place: it's underwater, it's out of the water, it's underwater, it's out of the water. "Anyone who thinks the sea level rising washing South Beach back into the ocean is a terrible environmental catastrophe is misinformed about the very nature of South Beach as a real estate scheme to begin with. It's another side of the story of climate change and human interactions with the planet that every time there's a catastrophe there's an opportunity for life to take advantage of new real estate to colonize." How is it possible two middle school best friends from New Hampshire know Miami better than most Miamians do? Foord moved to the Magic City to study marine biology at UM, then McKay came down to start Coral Morphologic in 2007. Relative newness didn't stop them both from becoming instrumental in pushing Miami culture forward. They've helped nurture Wynwood's arts scene, started a record label, and discovered four new species of zoanthids, confirmed by DNA testing and published in the Journal of Marine Biology. Next year, they'll install a Knight Foundation-funded aquascape video project at Miami International Airport and plan to start on a full-length Imax-style film. "Coming in as outsiders, we maybe have a more objective perception of what's really happening here, what has happened, and what is likely to continue to happen in the future," Foord said. "At the same time, our whole perception of Miami has been shaped by our friends, artists and musicians who have grown up here that have really tuned us into a lot of things that someone from outside Miami would have a very hard time engaging with as far as a 'real' Miami. "Without the arts scene and without all these artists and amazing people that Miami is blessed with, I don't think we'd have ended up on this track. We're definitely a product of our environment here." What Happens Underwater During a Hurricane? Janie Campbell \| November 2, 2012 11:38 AM ET By Brian McNoldy, University of Miami's Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science We think we’re pretty familiar with hurricanes – strong winds, storm surge, flooding rains, ominous satellite images from space, and radar loops when they get near land. But what goes on at and below the ocean’s surface when a hurricane passes overhead? Quite a lot, actually! Effects on the ocean properties The upper levels of the ocean are typically strongly stratified by temperature and by salinity. That is, colder, saltier water lies below the warmer, fresher water near the surface. When a hurricane comes by, it mixes everything up, resulting in a muddled and more homogeneous upper ocean. That means the surface water is cooler and saltier than it was previously was, and deeper water is warmer and less salty than it previously was. However, in very shallow coastal areas, the copious amount of fresh cold rain water from the hurricane can actually reduce the temperature and salinity of the near-surface water. Time series of the vertical profile of temperature and salinity from the ocean’s surface down to 200m, and spanning one day prior to the hurricane’s passage through 2.5 days after the passage. The dramatic mixing down to approximately 150m is evident. Time in days relative to the passage is listed along the horizontal axis. This particular case is from Hurricane Frances (2004) on 1 September. (Sanford et al., 2007) The colder surface water upwelled by the hurricane can actually be a fairly significant player in controlling the hurricane’s intensity. A strong slow-moving hurricane will upwell cold water much more effectively than a weaker and/or fast-moving hurricane. And since hurricanes require warm ocean water to fuel their “engine”, that upwelling can end up weakening the storm. The trail of upwelled cooler water left behind a storm is called a “cold wake”, and shows up clearly on maps of sea surface temperature. Map of sea surface temperature before (left) and after (right) Hurricane Isabel in 2003. Isabel’s track from the eastern Atlantic all the way into the mid-Atlantic coast is evident by the cold wake left behind. (NASA/GSFC) Intense hurricanes can generate 60′+ waves, and at the ocean surface, the boundary between the water and the air becomes nebulous. Amidst the formidable waves, sea spray and foam streak horizontally across the surface at high speed, blurring the view of the ocean’s surface in this photo from an aircraft flying through a hurricane. Photo of the sea state under Category 4 Hurricane Isabel taken from 400 feet above the surface. Note that the aircraft was not in or near the eyewall at this time or altitude. (Will Drennan, RSMAS) But below the ocean’s surface, the currents and turbulence beneath those waves can also be quite destructive. Unlike places above the surface, the ocean doesn’t “forget” about the storm very quickly… strong currents and turbulence have been known to exist up to a week after the storm passes overhead. Damaging currents can extend down to at least 300 feet below the surface, capable of dismantling coral reefs, relocating ship wrecks, breaking oil pipelines, and displacing huge volumes of sand on the seabed. Simplified schematic showing the parts of an ocean wave. At the surface, there are crests and troughs. Crests are separated by a wavelength. The depth to which a wave’s effects can be felt depends on the wavelength and wave height. Effects on marine life Some studies conducted in the Caribbean Sea have shown that in the year following a hurricane, coral cover is reduced by 15-20 percent (more or less, depending on the intensity of the hurricane) in the affected areas. There are several factors that go into the negative effect on coral: 1) the turbulent water breaks it, 2) the days of muddied water reduces the amount of sunlight reaching the algae in coral tissue, 3) the fine suspended particles clog the pores, and 4) the tremendous amount of rain reduces the salinity of the shallow ocean in the immediate area which can stress coral. Large self-propelled marine animals such as sharks seem to be minimally affected, since they can detect tiny changes in pressure as larger waves at the surface approach, as well as the reduced surface pressure associated with the storm itself, and go deeper or leave the area. However, hurricanes have been known to result in tremendous numbers of dead fish, crabs, sea turtles, oysters, etc due to reduced amounts of dissolved oxygen in the water, rapid salinity changes, and violent surf. Just like us up here on the surface, marine life suffers for months to several years from the death and destruction following a hurricane. Brian McNoldy Senior Research Associate University of Miami Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science Author of Tropical Atlantic Update Follow Brian on Twitter: @BMcNoldy (Flickr photo via Surf Cabo) What Does A Coral Reef Sound Like? Janie Campbell \| October 26, 2012 12:17 PM ET What does a coral reef sound like? Perhaps surprisingly, it isn't a cacophony of indie-band boings and wriggles. In fact, thanks to University of Miami PhD candidate Erica Staaterman, you can hear a Florida coral reef in the video above, which documents her research into the behavior of pelagic fish larvae. Billions of such "baby fish" are born every year, but must find their way to a coral reef to survive -- a needle in a haystack journey, as Staaterman describes it. For her research at UM's Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science, she set out to determine whether larval fish use the soundscape of the reef as a navigational tool. The project, which in video form is a finalist in the National Science Foundation's "Creating the Future" contest, involves playing the reef back to fish larvae in a special underwater chamber and then documenting their behavior. (To us it sounds like frying bacon, but maybe we're just typing hungry.) "Coral reefs comprise less than 1 percent of the ocean, but they are one of the most important areas on the planet both ecologically and economically," Staaterman says in her video. "Due to human impacts like overfishing and climate change, they're also one of the most threatened marine habitats. We need to discover how fish larvae find their way home, because the replenishment of reef fish populations depends upon the success of this next generation." Click above to hear the abiotic and biological symphony of a Florida coral reef, and vote here for Staaterman's video. RISE: Climate Change and Coastal Communities Stephanie J. Stiavetti \| July 24, 2012 10:38 AM ET This month yet another new study about climate change* was released. But this one is different. Unlike many previous studies in which scientists are hesitant to draw causal connections between global warming and specific weather events, this study comes out and says it: "Global warming makes heat waves more likely." The study also found that global warming is making other weather extremes more likely, such as droughts and heavy rains. Higher global temperatures heat up the oceans, as well. When the water in the seas heats up, it expands -- this is called thermal expansion. Thermal expansion is one of the biggest causes of sea level rise. Throw in melting glaciers adding more volume to the rising waters and more frequent heavy rains, and we've got a big problem for the more than 600 million people around the world who live in coastal areas that are less than 30 feet above sea level. And it's not just those people whose homes are right beside the water. Many others are at risk as floodwaters inundate sewage treatment plants, airports, freeways, and farmland. RISE: Climate Change and Coastal Communities explores this international issue through the lens of a single place: the San Francisco Bay Area. Six multimedia web stories take a look at the personal lives of men and women living along the water who are facing a rising tide. Save the Polar Bears, Save Ourselves Sylvia Earle \| April 20, 2012 3:06 PM ET Spill Cleanup? Just a Cost of Doing Business? Jackie Savitz \| January 31, 2012 9:41 PM ET Here's a new item to add to the long list of expenses that are putting our country into deficit spending: cleaning up oil spills. While we keep hearing that companies like BP are on the hook for the costs of cleanup, in truth, much of the cleanup will be paid for by the U.S. Treasury itself. As it turns out, BP and other oil companies can write off the costs of cleanup, forcing about a third of the billion dollar cleanup tab to come out of the Treasury. So, besides the normal billions of dollars that we already forego each year by giving tax breaks to some of the richest companies in the world, now we have billions more that those who spill oil into our oceans can get from our bank account even after committing one of the most heinous environmental crimes imaginable. Thankfully, Congress is taking notice, but will it have the political will to end this ridiculous giveaway? So far, Big Oil and its allies have been all too effective at preventing any legislation whatsoever from passing in the wake of the Deepwater Horizon Spill. Today, Congressman Alcee Hastings (D-FL) introduced the "Oil Spill Tax Fairness Act" to end the practice of allowing oil companies to take tax breaks after they've caused an oil spill. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that the bill could save the Treasury more than a billion dollars a year by placing cleanup costs squarely on the laps of those that made the mess. Remember, these are companies making record profits. Today, Exxon announced that it earned $41 billion in 2011, up 35% from 2010. Yet there seems to be no end in sight for the broader slate of tax gimmicks that result in billions of dollars lost to the Treasury each year. At the very least, these bad actors should pay to clean up their own messes. I have nothing against writing off business expenses, but a major oil spill is not, and never has been considered a normal "cost of doing business." Nor should it be. Killing workers, devastating marine life, including dolphins, corals and endangered sea turtles, shutting down fisheries, making people sick, and destroying the cultural fabric of coastal communities should never be considered just a cost of doing business. And companies like BP that take tremendous risks with our resources certainly should not be rewarded for doing so. Congress and the Administration should be doing much more in response to the Gulf Spill, like imposing real safety requirements, lifting the horrendously low liability cap, ending tax handouts to oil companies, and ultimately moving us away from offshore drilling. But at the very least passing the "Oil Spill Tax Fairness Act" would be a good first step. Wallace J Nichols \| October 4, 2011 10:23 AM ET The ocean is the single biggest feature of our planet. Phytoplankton in the ocean provide more than half of our oxygen and provides the basis of the primary protein for more than a billion people. Humans have derived unmeasurable inspiration, joy, recreation and relaxation from the ocean for millennia. But we have treated the ocean poorly, and its decline in recent decades has been catastrophic for our planet and its people. We have put too much into the ocean, in the form of oil, sewage, fertilizers and pesticides, antibiotics, plastic pollution, noise and increasing levels of CO2. We have taken too much out of the ocean by subsidizing and encouraging inefficient and destructive overfishing, bottom trawling, long-lining, purse seining, dynamite fishing, irresponsible aquaculture and illegal hunting. We need an Ocean Revolution. It is our coast and our ocean. The time is now to Occupy The Ocean. [Repost this anywhere you like, adding to it as you will.] \| September 19, 2011 5:42 PM ET By David Biello (Click here for original article.) Jellyfishes rely on drifting to eat. They take their luck with currents, and create tiny eddies to guide food toward their tendrils. Yet in waters from the Sea of Japan (aka East Sea) to the Black Sea, jellies today are thriving as many of their marine vertebrate and invertebrate competitors are eliminated by overfishing, dead zones and other human impacts. How have these drifters of the sea reversed millions of years of fish dominance, seemingly overnight? Biologist José Luis Acuña of the University of Oviedo in Spain and his colleagues now suggest that jellyfishes are just as effective at mealtime as fishes when judged by the right measures. "Jellyfishes are ancient organisms, which use a primitive predation mechanism based on generating feeding currents to bring the prey into contact with their bodies," Acuña explains. "In spite of this primitivism, jellies are as effective as fishes in catching prey and in transforming the energy acquired [into] body growth and reproduction." So where fishes use their eyes to spot planktonic prey, jellyfishes rely on body size—like the lion's mane jellyfish's 37-meter-long tentacles—to maximize their success. To achieve that size gain, predatory jellyfishes have relied on water incorporated into their tissues—the refrigerator-size Nomura's jellyfish from the Sea of Japan comprises mostly water. A larger body requires more energy to move, so jellies let the surrounding water do the work for them, which makes them some of the slowest swimmers in the sea. And measured by the amount of carbon in their bodies—rather than total weight—jellies consume and incorporate as much prey as fishes do, Acuña's team found. The results are detailed in the September 16 issue of Science. "It is very neat work," says ecologist Kylie Pitt of Griffith University in Australia, who is working on similar research. When combined with overfishing, climate change, fertilizer runoff–induced dead zones and other human impacts on ocean fishes, a watery evolutionary stage has been set for a jellyfish takeover—dubbed the "gelatinous ocean" by some scientists. There are exceptions to this rule: The cannonball jellyfish—a seafood delicacy in Asia—shoots through the water at 15 centimeters per second, a decent clip. And the return to ocean conditions last seen in the Ediacaran period more than 540 million years ago—when jellies last ruled the seas—has been a boon for certain fishes in habitats like the Benguela Current in the South Atlantic off Namibia in Africa, where jellyfish-eating gobies have replaced sardines in the food chain. The growing abundance of these jelly-feeding gobies now serves to provide sustenance to the predators that formerly feasted on the sardines, such as seabirds, larger fishes and, ultimately, humans. "We need research to be sure of what new ecological scenarios are arising," Acuña says. "It is time to take [jellyfishes] seriously," Acuña adds, both as a marine predator and a future seafood source. BP's Bad Timing Jackie Savitz \| September 8, 2011 4:51 PM ET If you were BP, wouldn't you wait for the right time to go back to the U.S. government to ask for more permits to drill? What would seem like a good time to do that? Surely, it wouldn't be when oil is gushing uncontrollably from a BP site on the cold, dark ocean floor, or a day when oiled birds were washing up on beaches. Certainly fisheries closures wouldn't still be keeping Gulf fishermen from working, and people wouldn't still be rebuilding their lives, after losing jobs, and even loved ones following the explosion. I picture BP coming back for more drilling rights on a bright, sunny day, with clear blue skies, birds chirping and butterflies fluttering around. Flowers would be blooming, and green marsh grasses would be swaying with the fresh breeze. The kind of day when it seems as if there is not a care in the world. Sadly, that's not how the Gulf looked yesterday, or today. BP's announcement that it wants more drilling permits came on a day when the Gulf still looks more like a traumatized post-disaster site than the pretty picture of recovery we so hope for. Everywhere we look we see reminders that the oil is not gone and people and wildlife are still suffering. Just two weeks ago there was a large oil sheen spotted in the Gulf, not the first since the Deepwater Horizon of course, but one which was tracked back to an area near two abandoned wells. There are about 27,000 such wells in the Gulf with the potential to leak at any time, and oftentimes do so unnoticed since they are neither monitored nor adequately inspected. Then, just last week, a new oil sheen was found near the site of the Deepwater Horizon. BP's initial response was less than helpful, but independent chemical analysis showed that the oil looks an awful lot like theirs. The sheen can't really be explained by a passing boat, or a leaking rig. A natural seep is a very low odds possibility, not to mention a convenient theory for BP. But many believe this oil may be coming from the well, either from the abandoned riser, or from a leak springing from a fracture caused by the blowout. BP has no good explanation. They say they don't see the sheen. But it's bad timing to be asking for more drilling. Maybe they couldn't see the sheen because far from being a clear, sunny day, the ocean is stirred up thanks to Hurricane Lee. Lee isn't the first hurricane to hit the area since the spill, and it won't be the last. It's a reminder that more permits for drilling in the Gulf may not be such a good idea. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita famously led to numerous spills in Hurricane Alley. When there's a hurricane threatening the existing Gulf rigs, it may be a bad time to ask for more permits. And finally, anyone who did think it might be a nice beach day may have been disappointed to be greeted by a fresh new batch of tar balls on the shoreline. BP oil? Authorities are not yet sure. But one thing is for sure: it wasn't the first set of tar balls to wash up, and it won't be the last. Especially not if BP and other oil companies continue to insist that their right to drill trumps everything else in the Gulf. Oh, and one other thing: It's probably not a good day to ask for more drilling rights. \| June 23, 2011 6:13 PM ET In case you needed any reminder of the awe-inspiring wonders in nature, this video will do just that. We don't know how we missed this incredible footage from last year, but we weren't the only ones, and it's definitely worth posting no matter how old. YouTube user Seainggreen documents the hatchings of a giant Pacific octopus, which can lay up to 100,000 eggs, according to Wikipedia. From the video's description: A giant pacific octopus mother who lived just across from downtown Seattle had her hatch right under the noses of local divers. Her den was sequestered in Cove Two in West Seattle, in a location that spared her from predators and over-visitation by humans. On September 4 (aka early, early on September 5), 2010, the eggs began hatching. It's a time of mixed emotion; joy at the hatch, and sadness at the knowledge that this event means the mother's life will end. The hatch lasted a full week, after which the mother died. Sit back, and prepare to be blown away by mother nature -- jump to 3:24 if you want to get right to it. WATCH (via Digiphile):	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/our-oceans/	<urn:uuid:5b64af17-b6e9-4eb2-a508-c23f3675c711>	en	0.956384	0.037458
Blogs \| Mother Jones Mother Jones logo en Mitch Albom Becomes an Issue in Michigan House Primary <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>According to a conservative PAC, Republican House candidate David Trott is one of the five people you meet in Hell. Trott, who is <a href="" target="_blank">challenging</a> first-term GOP Rep. Kerry Bentivolio in the GOP primary for Michigan's 11th district, runs a law firm that specializes in mortgage foreclosures. In a new ad, a Virginia-based group called Freedom's Defense Fund highlights a foreclosure Trott's firm processed in 2011 that left a 101-year-old homeowner, Texana Hollis, out on the street:</p> <object height="354" width="630"><param name="movie" value="//;version=3"> <param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"> <embed allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="354" src="//;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="630"></embed></object> <p>The eviction highlighted in the ad came about after the woman's son fell behind on his property tax payments and ignored repeated warnings. But there was a happy ending: <em>Detroit Free-Press</em> columnist and <a href="" target="_blank">airport bookstore king</a> Mitch Albom bought the house and transferred it back to Hollis.</p> <p>As I reported in January, Trott has a hand in every step of the foreclosure process—he even owns the newspaper where foreclosure notices are required to be posted. But while the ad itself is brutal, it probably won't do much damage, because Freedom's Defense Fund is only spending $15,000 to run it on local cable channels. That's consistent with a group that spends much of the money it raises paying Washington-area direct-mail outfits. Of the $1.6 million FDF spent in 2013, just $120,000 went toward candidates or independent expenditures. As <em>Think Progress</em> <a href="" target="_blank">notes</a>, $1.2 million went to fundraising services, which means the PAC is spending most of the money it raises on raising more money.</p> </body></html> MoJo Elections Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:59:19 +0000 Tim Murphy 247431 at We're Still at War: Photo of the Day for March 13, 2014 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <div class="inline inline-left" style="display: table; width: 1%"><img alt="" class="image" src="/files/0313-630.jpg"></div> <p class="rtecenter"><em>Lance Cpl. Steven T. Peterson, a machine gunner with Weapons Company, 3rd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division and part of Black Sea Rotational Force 14, subdues a simulated enemy during a mechanical arm control holds course after being exposed to oleoresin capsicum spray on Mihail Kogalniceanu Air Base, Romania, March 5, 2014. The Marines were directly exposed to the OC spray, then instructed to complete a course with different stations which required them to execute different take down techniques on a simulated enemy combatant. Black Sea Rotational Force 14 is a contingent of Marines to maintain positive relations with partner nations, regional stability and increase interoperability while providing the capability for rapid crisis response, as directed by U.S. European Command, in the Black Sea, Balkan and Caucus regions of Eastern Europe. (<a href="" target="_blank">U.S. Marine Corps photo</a> by Lance Cpl. Scott W. Whiting/Released)</em></p> </body></html> MoJo Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:05:15 +0000 247426 at Guns May Soon Be Everywhere in Georgia <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Soon gun owners in the state of Georgia may be allowed to pack heat almost anywhere—including K-12 schools, bars, churches, government buildings, and airports. The "Safe Carry Protection Act" (HB 875) would also expand Georgia's Stand Your Ground statute, the controversial law <a href="" target="_blank">made famous by the Trayvon Martin killing</a>, which allows armed citizens to defend themselves with deadly force if they believe they are faced with serious physical harm.</p> <p>The bill could pass as soon as next week, before the current legislative session ends on March 20. It is the latest effort in the battle over gun laws that continues to rage <a href="" target="_blank">in statehouses around the country</a>. It is perhaps also the most extreme yet. "Of all the bills pending right now in state legislatures, this is the most sweeping and most dangerous," Laura Cutiletta, a staff attorney with the <a href="" target="_blank">Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence</a>, <a href="">told PolitiFact</a>. Americans for Responsible Solutions, the gun-reform advocacy group founded by former congresswoman Gabby Giffords after she was shot in the head, <a href=";">has deemed it</a> the "guns everywhere" bill. For its part, the National Rifle Association <a href="">recently called</a> HB 875 "the most comprehensive pro-gun reform legislation introduced in recent state history."</p> <p>In addition to overturning current state laws and dramatically rolling back concealed-carry restrictions, HB 875 <a href="">would loosen other</a> gun regulations in the state. <a href="" target="_blank">The law</a> would:</p> <ul> <li>Remove the fingerprinting requirement for gun license renewals</li> <li>Prohibit the state from keeping a gun license database</li> <li>Tighten the state's preemption statute, which restricts local governments from passing gun laws that conflict with state laws</li> <li>Repeal the state licensing requirement for firearms dealers (requiring only a federal firearms license)</li> <li>Expand gun owner rights in a declared state of emergency by prohibiting government authorities from seizing, registering, or otherwise limiting the carrying of guns in any way permitted by law before the emergency was declared</li> <li>Limit the governor's emergency powers by repealing the ability to regulate the sale of firearms during a declared state of emergency</li> <li>Lower the age to obtain a concealed carry license from 21 to 18 for active-duty military and honorably discharged veterans who've completed basic training</li> <li>Prohibit detaining someone for the sole purpose of checking whether they have a gun license</li> </ul> <p>The sweeping bill would also expand the state's Stand your Ground law into an "absolute" defense for the use of deadly force in self-protection. "Defense of self or others," the bills reads "shall be an absolute defense to any violation under this part." In its current wording, the bill would even allow individuals who possess a gun illegally—convicted felons, for example—to still claim a Stand Your Ground defense.</p> </body></html> <p style="font-size: 1.083em;"><a href="/mojo/2014/03/georgia-guns-concealed-carry-stand-your-ground"><strong><em>Continue Reading »</em></strong></a></p> MoJo Crime and Justice Guns Top Stories Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:00:09 +0000 Hannah Levintova 247396 at In a Radical Shift, California Police Chiefs Push for Regulation of Medical Marijuana <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <div> <div id="mininav" class="inline-subnav"> <!-- header content --> <div id="mininav-header-content"> <div id="mininav-header-image"> <img src="/files/images/motherjones_mininav/marijuana-leaf-225_0.jpg" width="220" border="0"> </div> </div> <!-- linked stories --> <div id="mininav-linked-stories"> <ul> <span id="linked-story-244126"> <li><a href="/politics/2014/02/pot-marijuana-legalization-map-states"> Maps: Will Your State Be Next to Legalize Pot?</a></li> </span> <span id="linked-story-215461"> <li><a href="/blue-marble/2013/02/google-earth-tour-marijuana-farms-environment-video"> How Industrial Pot Growers Ravage the Land: A Google Earth Tour</a></li> </span> <span id="linked-story-89881"> <li><a href="/politics/2011/01/marijuana-industry"> The New Marijuana Service Industry</a></li> </span> <span id="linked-story-210701"> <li><a href="/mojo/2012/12/mitch-daniels-marijuana-federalism"> When Republicans Love Legalized Pot</a></li> </span> <span id="linked-story-81351"> <li><a href="/politics/2010/10/california-medical-marijuana-pot-card"> How to Get a Pot Card (Without Really Trying)</a></li> </span> <span id="linked-story-141947"> <li><a href="/politics/2011/12/tony-dsouza-marijuana-growers"> The New Dealers</a></li> </span> <span id="linked-story-206156"> <li><a href="/politics/2012/11/breckenridge-rockies-amendment-64-marijuana-colorado"> Welcome to the Amsterdam of the Rockies</a></li> </span> </ul> </div> <!-- footer content --> </div> </div> <p>California was the first state to legalize medical marijuana, but like the pimply-faced stoner dude you may have known in high school, it hasn't had the healthiest of relationships with Mary Jane. The Golden State differs from most others with medical pot laws in that it doesn't actually regulate production and sale of the herb. Instead, it lets cities and counties enact their own laws—though in practice most haven't. The result has been the Wild West of weed: <a href="" target="_blank">Almost any adult can score a scrip</a> and some bud from a local dispensary, assuming, of course, that it hasn't yet been <a href="" target="_blank">raided</a> and shut down by the feds. </p> <p>But all of that might be about to change. The California Police Chiefs Association (CPCA) <a href="" target="_blank">recently announced</a> support for a bill that would put the state in the business of regulating the medical pot trade. Though you'd think cops would have pushed for such a thing decades ago, the reality is quite the opposite: The CPCA and other law enforcement organizations have, until now, opposed pretty much every reform to California's medical marijuana system for <a href="" target="_blank">fear</a> that anything short of completely abolishing it would legitimize it.</p> <p>The CPCA's change of heart "is a huge for us," says Nate Bradley, executive director of the California Cannabis Industry Association, the state's marijuana industry trade group. Bradley agrees with his police adversaries that tighter regs would legitimize medical marijuana, which is why the CCIA has pushed for them since the group's inception four years ago. Bolstering his case, the US Department of Justice last year <a href="" target="_blank">announced</a> that it would no longer raid dispensaries in states that it believes are regulating them adequately—a formulation that seemed to exclude California. <a href="" target="_blank">New rules</a> issued last month by the Obama administration allow banks to accept funds from pot dealers, but only if they're licensed in the state where they operate.</p> <p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px;">So why are California's drug warriors reversing course? "We could no longer ignore that the political landscape on this issue was shifting," the CPCA explained in a letter written jointly with the League of California Cities. Polls and changing federal policies suggest that medical pot reform "could be enacted," and that "without our proactive intervention, it could take a form that was severely damaging to our interests."</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px;">The bill that law enforcement groups are backing, SB 1262, is flawed, but it's something that "we can work with," says Bradley, who previously worked as a cop in California's Yuba County. Advocates of medical pot don't like how the bill constrains the ability of doctors to recommend marijuana, <a href="" target="_blank">outlaws potent pot concentrates</a> such as hash oil, and puts regulation in the hands of the Department of Public Health, rather than the Department of Alcoholic Beverages Control.</span></p> </body></html> <p style="font-size: 1.083em;"><a href="/mojo/2014/03/california-police-chiefs-regulation-medical-marijuana"><strong><em>Continue Reading »</em></strong></a></p> MoJo Civil Liberties Top Stories marijuana Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:00:07 +0000 Josh Harkinson 247321 at Marco Rubio Wants to Save the Internet From Foreigners <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Sen. Marco Rubio, still engaged in his campaign to reconnect with his tea party roots after blowing it on immigration reform, announced today that he plans to introduce a bill that would "prevent a 'takeover' of the Internet by the United Nations or another government regime." <a href="" target="_blank">Steve Benen is puzzled:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>To be sure, there are foreign governments that censor their citizens’ access to online content, but it’s not at all clear why Rubio sees this as a domestic threat here in the U.S. As best as I can tell, there is no effort to empower the United Nations or anyone else to regulate the Internet on a global scale. Such a policy would certainly be scary, and would require opposition, but at present, it’s also non-existent.</p> </blockquote> <p>For the most part, Rubio is probably just glomming onto a random bit of jingoism that he thinks will rile up his base. Still, there's actually a kernel of substance to this. Right now, the US Department of Commerce exercises ultimate control over the DNS root zone, and ICANN, a nonprofit that administers the DNS naming system, does so under contract <img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/blog_icann_logo.jpg" style="margin: 20px 20px 15px 30px;">to the Commerce Department. And while ICANN has a global governance structure, it's based in Los Angeles and has historically had a heavy American management presence.</p> <p>But that could change. <a href="" target="_blank">Last year,</a> in response to some of Edward Snowden's spying revelations, ICANN's board of directors issued a statement that called for "accelerating the globalization of ICANN and IANA functions, towards an environment in which all stakeholders, including all governments, participate on an equal footing." <a href="" target="_blank">Last month</a> the European Commission joined in, releasing a statement that lamented a "continued loss of confidence in the Internet and its current governance" and proposing new governance that would "identify how to globalise the IANA functions" and "establish a clear timeline for the globalisation of ICANN." <a href="" target="_blank">A week later,</a> rumors surfaced that ICANN might try to move its headquarters to Geneva.</p> <p>Now, this kind of squabbling has gone on forever, and the politics behind these statements is usually pretty murky. There's no telling if it will ever amount to anything, and in any case it certainly has nothing to do with UN control over the internet. Nonetheless, other countries have long chafed under effective American control of the internet's plumbing, and the Snowden leaks have given new momentum to calls for that control to end. It's possible that this is what Rubio is thinking of.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum International Tech Thu, 13 Mar 2014 01:42:10 +0000 Kevin Drum 247416 at Sorry, the Dog Ate My Homework <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/images/Blog_Scream.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 8px 20px 15px 30px;">Apologies for the radio silence. I had an adventure-filled afternoon. My first adventure prompted me to call for help, and I discovered that my iPhone's contact list had mysteriously disappeared. No calling for help for me! Eventually everything got sorted out, and when I finally got home I restored my contacts via iCloud. So no permanent harm done. Still, when my car strands me, I always figure my phone will bail me out. That's what a phone is for. Right? But what do you do when your phone mysteriously decides to strand you at the same time?</p> <p>And what did I do to deserve all this, anyway?</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Climate Change Thu, 13 Mar 2014 00:15:51 +0000 Kevin Drum 247411 at Sen. Feinstein: The CIA Scandal Began Because the Agency Misled Congress About Torture <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px;">Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chair of the Senate intelligence committee, kicked off a Washington </span>kerfuffle<span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px;"> with </span><a href="" style="line-height: 24px;" target="_blank">significant constitutional implications</a><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px;"> w</span>hen she <a href="" target="_blank">took to the Senate floor</a> on Tuesday to accuse the CIA of spying on her committee's investigation into its controversial interrogation and detention program. As pro-CIA partisans and the agency's overseers on Capitol Hill squared off for a DC turf battle—with finger-pointing in both directions—lost in the hubbub was a basic and troubling fact: Feinstein had contended that this all began because, years ago, the spies of Langley had severely misled the legislators responsible for overseeing the intelligence agencies.</p> <p>At the start of her speech, Feinstein laid out the back story, and her account is a tale of a major CIA abuse. The CIA's detention and interrogation (a.k.a. torture) program began in 2002. For its first four years, the CIA only told the chairman and vice-chairman of the Senate intelligence committee about the program, keeping the rest of the panel in the dark. In September 2006, hours before President George W. Bush was to disclose the program to the public, then CIA Director Michael Hayden informed the rest of the committee. This piece of history shows the limits of congressional oversight. If only two members of the committee were informed, it meant that the panel could not provide full oversight of this program. But keeping secrets from legislators—even members of the intelligence committee—is not that unusual, and the story gets worse.</p> <p>In December 2007, the <em>New York Times </em><a href="" target="_blank">reported</a> that the CIA had destroyed two videotapes of the CIA's interrogation (or torture) sessions. After this disclosure, Hayden told the Senate intelligence committee that eradicating the videos was not as worrisome as it seemed. According to Feinstein, he noted that CIA cables had detailed the interrogations and detention conditions and were "a more than adequate representation" of what had happened. He offered Sen. Jay Rockefeller, who was then chairing the committee, the opportunity to review these thousands of cables. Rockefeller dispatched two staffers to peruse these records.</p> <p>It took the pair about a year to sift through all the material and produce a report for the intelligence committee. That report, Feinstein noted, was "chilling." The review, she said, showed that the "interrogations and the conditions of confinement at the CIA detention sites were far different and far more harsh than the way the CIA had described them to us."</p> <p>That is, the CIA had misled the Capitol Hill watchdogs.</p> <p>After reading the staff report, Feinstein, now chairing the committee, and Sen. Kit Bond (R-Mo.), then the senior Republican on the committee, decided a far more expansive investigation was called for. On March 5, 2009, the committee voted 14 to 1 to initiate a full-fledged review of the CIA's detention and interrogation program.</p> <p>It is that inquiry that has caused the recent fuss, with Feinstein claiming that the CIA (possibly illegally) penetrated computers used by committee investigators and removed documents indicating a CIA internal review of this program had concluded it was poorly managed, went too far, and did not produce decent intelligence. The committee's more comprehensive review eventually produced a 6,300-page report slamming CIA that has yet to be made public, despite Feinstein pushing the CIA to declassify it.</p> <p>So while this week's focus is on whether the CIA improperly—or illegally—spied on the folks who have the constitutional obligation to monitor CIA actions in order to ensure the agency acts appropriately and within US law, Feinstein's big reveal also presented a highly troubling charge: The CIA lied to Congress about what might be its most controversial program in decades. This in and of itself should be big news.</p> <p>At the conclusion of her speech, Feinstein, referring to the present controversy, said, "How this will be resolved will show whether the intelligence committee can be effective in monitoring and investigating our nation's intelligence activities or whether our work can be thwarted by those we oversee." That is true. And if there cannot be effective oversight of intelligence operations, then the foundation of the national security state is in question. Yet Feinstein's remarks provide evidence that oversight was not working prior to the current face-off. If the CIA did not tell the Senate intelligence committee the truth about its interrogation and detention program, much more needs to be resolved than whether the spies hacked the gumshoes of Capitol Hill.</p> </body></html> MoJo Civil Liberties Congress Top Stories Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:13:13 +0000 David Corn 247391 at An Endorsement From Barack Obama Might Be the Kiss of Death This Year <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>A friend just emailed me with a gloomy outlook for Democrats in this year's midterm elections. I don't really have an outlook myself yet, though obviously Democrats suffer from a difficult electoral map, the traditional 6-year blues, and their usual problem turning out voters in off-year elections. But as long as we're being gloomy, here's something else to add to the bonfire. It's an extract from a <a href="" target="_blank"><em>Washington Post</em> poll graphic</a> showing how voters react to congressional candidates being associated with the Obama administration. It's not a pretty picture.</p> <p>Now, if you want some good news, all you have to do is take a look at some of the other numbers in the poll, which makes it clear that most people have no idea what really makes them more or less likely to vote for someone. At the very bottom, for example, you'll see that virtually no one is willing to fess up that they're more likely to vote for an incumbent, despite mountains of research showing that incumbency is the single most powerful predictor of electoral success there is. So maybe this is all just a bunch of hooey. But I wouldn't bet on it.</p> <p><img align="middle" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/blog_obama_endorse.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 15px 0px 5px 15px;"></p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Elections Obama Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:31:50 +0000 Kevin Drum 247376 at The British Economy Is Not a Poster Child for Austerity <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Keith Humphreys notes that economic growth over the past year has been similar in Britain and the United States even though the two countries adopted <a href="" target="_blank">very different responses to the Great Recession:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>But don’t expect the similar levels of growth in the two countries to shake many people’s faith in their economic views. Most of the “slim government” crowd will argue that Britain didn’t cut enough (or that the U.S. growth isn’t real) and that’s why the U.K. hasn’t left the U.S. in the dust. Most increased government spending supporters will see proof that the stimulus wasn’t big enough (or that the U.K. growth isn’t real) because if it had been U.S. growth would be dwarfing that of the sceptred isle.</p> <p>Many people seem to have stable preferences about whether they want government bigger or smaller. They will point to current economic conditions as the reason for why their preferences should prevail, but their preferences do not change when those putatively justifying economic conditions fade away. Neither are most people fazed when the government spending policies they support (as well as those that they oppose) deliver different results than they expected. Motivated reason is such a force in this particular policy area that rather than arguing over what current economic conditions particularly require, debaters are probably <img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/blog_gdp_usa_britain_1.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 20px 0px 15px 30px;">better off cutting to the chase and arguing directly about the real issue: Disagreement about how big or small we want the government to be.</p> </blockquote> <p>I don't think this is fair. If you want to compare Britain and the US, you have to look at their entire growth trajectory since the start of the recession. The chart on the right is taken from <a href="" target="_blank">OECD numbers,</a> so it's an apples-to-apples comparison. And really, there is no comparison. As of 2012 (the most recent figures available from the OECD) Britain's GDP was still 3 percent below its 2007 level. By contrast, US GDP was 4 percent above its 2007 level.</p> <p>We can argue all day long about what caused this divergence, but I think the raw data is fairly unequivocal. Whatever the reason, the US economy really did suffer less and recover more robustly than the British economy.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Economy Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:59:03 +0000 Kevin Drum 247371 at Are Russia and Ukraine on the Verge of an All-Out Cyberwar? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>For the past week, reports of physical violence have been rolling out of Ukraine: Russian troops <a href="" target="_blank">storming a base</a> in Crimea, officers <a href="" target="_blank">beating journalists</a>, and <a href=";rref=world" target="_blank">violent brawls</a> <a href="" target="_blank">at rallies</a>. But as tensions escalate, another part of the conflict appears to be playing out in a cloudier realm: cyberspace.</p> <p><a href="">On Saturday</a>, Ukraine's top security agency—the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine—announced at a briefing that it had been hit by severe denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks, "apparently aimed at hindering a response to the challenges faced by our state." This comes on the heels of a number of alleged hacks involving Russian and Ukrainian targets, including attacks on news outlets and blocking reception to<strong> </strong>the cellphones of Ukrainian parliament members.</p> <p><a href=";_type=blogs&ref=technology&_r=0">Security experts say</a> the region is currently seeing an unusually high number of DDoS attacks, which aim to shut down networks, usually by overwhelming them with traffic. But many of those seem to be coming from third parties, rather than government entities. In terms of state-sponsored cyberwarfare, "we haven't seen that much," says Dmitri Alperovitch, CTO of CrowdStrike, a California-based cybersecurity firm.<strong> </strong>Alperovitch adds, though, that his firm has seen a significant amount of cyber-espionage on the part of the Russian intelligence services—including tracking the activities of Putin opponents in both Russia and Ukraine—but he would not disclose names of those being monitored.</p> <p>Ukraine is situated in a region of the world known for breeding some of the most talented cyber criminals. Several Russian <a href="" target="_blank">universities offer </a>top-notch hacking training, and a Ukrainian hacker <a href="" target="_blank">is suspected</a> in December's theft of 40 million credit card numbers from Target. But Ukraine and Russia aren't on equal footing when it comes to their cyberwarfare capabilities. "Russia is a Tier 1 cyber power," says Alperovitch. "Ukraine isn't even in Tier 3." So Russia has a leg up in this arena—and, during past conflicts with former Soviet bloc countries, it has flexed its cyberwarfare muscles. In April 2007, hackers unleashed a wave of cyberattacks on Estonian government agencies, banks, businesses, newspapers, and political parties, following a spat over the removal of a Soviet war memorial in Tallin, the country's capital. (The Kremlin <a href="">took only partial credit</a> for the crippling three-week attack.) Georgia was targeted with similar attacks in 2008 in the days leading up to its invasion of the secessionist republic of South Ossetia. (Russian involvement <a href="">was widely</a> <a href="">suspected</a>.)</p> <p>Ukraine has yet be targeted with these type of widespread cyberassaults on key infrastructure—but it may not be long. "I anticipate continued escalation," says Jason Healey, director of the Atlantic Council's Cyber Statecraft Initiative and the former White House director of cyber infrastructure protection during the Bush administration. So far, the cyberskirmish is playing out differently than past attacks, Healey says. While the Estonia and Georgia attacks were strictly digital, in Ukraine's case, pro-Moscow forces have also deployed more hands-on attacks on information: "This old-school, Cold War style physical manipulation of equipment. Getting in and physically messing with the switches so Ukrainian civic leaders don't have phone service," Healey says. In Ukraine, these sorts of attacks âare likely to be a bigger threat, because much of the telecommunications infrastructure was installed by Russians during the Soviet era. "Cyberattacks the way we tend to look at them—denial-of-service attacks, and so forth—you don't have to do those when you've got physical access to the guy's switch!" says Healey.</p> <p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 2em;">Here's a run-down of what has transpired so far: </span></p> </body></html> <p style="font-size: 1.083em;"><a href="/mojo/2014/03/cyber-war-ukraine-russia"><strong><em>Continue Reading »</em></strong></a></p> MoJo Foreign Policy International Tech Top Stories Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:16:07 +0000 Hannah Levintova 247156 at Florida Special Election Turns Out Not to Be Very Special After All <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Dave Weigel describes the dispiriting nature of yesterday's <a href="" target="_blank">special election in Florida's 13th district:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>The Pinellas County race pit Alex Sink, an uninspiring corporate Democrat, against David Jolly, a say-anything lobbyist who spent half a week of the stretch sleazily and baselessly calling his opponent a "bigot." Both of them came off like people desperately trying to sell you a time share.</p> </blockquote> <p>And then he explains <a href="" target="_blank">why Republican David Jolly won:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>Having now spent 6,000-odd words on the Florida special election, I should admit that smart analysts predicted the result with one number. Two-hundred thousand. If that many ballots showed up in FL-13, Democrats were hitting their turnout models and winning the race. If fewer, they were losing. There were about 180,000 votes cast in the race, and the Democrats lost.</p> </blockquote> <p>Yep. Basically, it was a tight race in a district previously held by a Republican but won by Obama in 2012. And Jolly ended up winning by two percentage points. There's really not much of a lesson to be learned here aside from the fact that (a) it was truly a tossup district, and (b) Democrats have a really tough time with turnout in non-presidential elections. Eventually they're going to have to figure out what to do about that.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Congress Elections Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:06:27 +0000 Kevin Drum 247361 at VIDEO: David Corn on Why the CIA's Fight with Senators Is "All-out War" <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><em>Mother Jones</em> DC bureau chief David Corn spoke with <a href="" target="_blank">MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell</a> and Julian Epstein this week about the "unprecedented" allegations of CIA snooping on congressional investigators. Watch here:</p> <p><iframe border="no" height="497" scrolling="no" src="" width="630"></iframe></p> </body></html> MoJo Video Civil Liberties Congress Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:43:31 +0000 David Corn 247351 at We're Still at War: Photo of the Day for March 12, 2014 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <div class="inline inline-left" style="display: table; width: 1%"><img alt="" class="image" src="/files/0312-630.jpg"></div> <div id="meta"> <div class="photo-desc" id="description_div"> <p class="rtecenter"><em>CAMP HUNTER LIGGETT, Calif. -- As crew chief Spc. Scott Pauley, Company B, 1-140 Aviation Battalion provides direction, a Soldier with 1st Battalion, 184th Infantry clears out of a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter, Feb. 8. Soldiers of the 1-184 were sharpening their air assault skills in preparation for annual training 2014. (<a href="" target="_blank">Photo</a> by Sgt. 1st Class Benjamin M.M. Cossel)</em></p> </div> </div> </body></html> MoJo Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:10:14 +0000 247346 at WATCH: Front-Runner in GOP Senate Primary Says Planned Parenthood Wants to Kill Newborns <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <object height="354" width="630"><param name="movie" value="//;version=3"> <param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"> <embed allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="354" src="//;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="630"></embed></object> <p>According to North Carolina GOP Senate candidate Greg Brannon, Planned Parenthood has a secret plan to legalize the killing of newborn babies as old as three months. Brannon, a Rand Paul-backed obstetrician who is a front-runner for the GOP nomination, made the allegations at a November fundraiser for Hand of Hope, a chain of crisis pregnancy centers he operates in North Carolina.</p> <blockquote> <p>Well how far will [it] go? Last year, February 29, 2012, the <em>Journal of Ethics</em> in Australia, they debated that. They said we already know abortion is fine, why stop in the womb? Why not three months after. Why should we end the responsibility at that point? It could happen in America. Florida's trying to do it right now and so is Georgia. Planned Parenthood. Because we allowed that slippery slope. Every human being deserves life, liberty, and property.</p> </blockquote> <p>Brannon's statement appears to be based on testimony given last year by a lobbyist for the Florida Alliance of Planned Parenthood Affiliates. Asked how the organization's physicians would respond if a baby were born alive during an abortion, the lobbyist appeared confused and said she'd have to check. But in a follow-up statement, Barbara Zdravecky, CEO of Planned Parenthood of Southwest and Central Florida, unambiguously rejected the notion: "In the extremely unlikely event that the scenario presented by the legislators ever happened, of course Planned Parenthood would provide appropriate care to both the woman and the infant."</p> <p>"These absurd and patently false claims by Greg Brannon demonstrate just how extreme and out of touch he is when it comes to women's health issues—and the rest of the Republican Senate candidates in North Carolina are just as dangerous," Planned Parenthood Action Fund Executive Vice President Dawn Laguens said in a statement. Brannon's campaign did not respond to request for clarification.</p> <p>In the same speech, Brannon said women get abortions because of the same nihilistic worldview that causes them to believe in evolution. "We have people who believe they evolve from nothing, they came from nothing, they'll go to nothing, and today doesn't matter, so when they have a mistake, why not move on?" he said.</p> <p>The most recent survey of the race, from Public Policy Polling, showed Brannon tied with Thom Tillis, the speaker of the state House of Representatives, for the Republican nomination—and running even with Sen. Kay Hagan (R-N.C.) in a hypothetical November matchup.</p> </body></html> MoJo Elections Reproductive Rights Top Stories Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:00:09 +0000 Tim Murphy 247311 at President Obama Takes on Overtime Rules <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><a href="" target="_blank">From the <em>New York Times</em>:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>President Obama this week will seek to force American businesses to pay more overtime to millions of workers, the latest move by his administration to confront corporations that have had soaring profits even as wages have stagnated....Mr. Obama’s decision to use his executive authority to change the nation’s overtime rules is likely to be seen as a challenge to Republicans in Congress, who have already blocked most of the president’s economic agenda and have said they intend to fight his proposal to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour from $7.25.</p> </blockquote> <p>This is obviously just the latest in Obama's long series of Constitution-crushing moves that flout the law and turn the president into a despot-in-chief, gleefully kneecapping Congress and — wait. What's this?</p> <blockquote> <p>In 2004, business groups persuaded President George W. Bush’s administration to allow them greater latitude on exempting salaried white-collar workers from overtime pay, even as organized labor objected....Mr. Obama’s authority to act comes from his ability as president to revise the rules that carry out the Fair Labor Standards Act, which Congress originally passed in 1938. Mr. Bush and previous <img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/images/Blog_Constitution_0.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 20px 0px 15px 30px;">presidents used similar tactics at times to work around opponents in Congress.</p> </blockquote> <p>Oh. So he's just doing the same stuff that every other president has done. Sorry about that. You may go about your business.</p> <p>For what it's worth, this gets to the heart of my impatience with all the right-wing hysteria about how Obama is shredding the Constitution and turning himself into a modern-day Napoleon. I'm not unpersuadable on the general point that Obama's executive orders sometimes go too far. But so far no one has provided any evidence that Obama has done anything more than any other modern president. They all issue executive orders, and Obama has actually issued fewer than most. They all urge the federal bureaucracy to reinterpret regulations in liberal or conservative directions. They all appoint agency heads with mandates to push the rulemaking process in agreeable directions. And they all get taken to court over this stuff and sometimes get their hats handed to them.</p> <p>Is Obama opening up whole new vistas in executive overreach? I don't see it, and I don't even see anyone making the case seriously. You can't just run down a laundry list of executive actions you happen to dislike. You need to take a genuinely evenhanded look at the past 30 or 40 years of this stuff and make an argument that Obama is doing something unique. Until you do that, you're just playing dumb partisan games.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Congress Labor Obama Wed, 12 Mar 2014 05:58:35 +0000 Kevin Drum 247341 at What Have the Democrats Ever Done For Us? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><a href="" target="_blank">Yesterday</a> I wrote a post griping about the supposed mystery of why so many working and middle class voters (WMC for short) have drifted into the Republican Party over the past few decades. It's hardly a mystery, I said, and it's not an example of people voting against their own economic interest. The problem is simple: Democrats haven't really done much for the WMC lately, so fewer and fewer of them view Democrats as their champions. That being the case, they might as well vote for the party that promises to cut their taxes and supports traditional values.</p> <p><a href="" target="_blank">Scott Lemieux agrees with many of the specific points I made,</a> but nonetheless thinks I went too far with my "general framing." His post is worth a read, and it also gives me a handy excuse to write a follow-up. This is partly to expand on some things, partly to defend myself, and partly to concede an issue or two. So in no special order, here goes:</p> <p><strong>First off, you're really talking about the <em>white</em> WMC, right?</strong></p> <p>Yeah, that's usually how this stuff is framed. As it happens, I'd argue that although the black and Hispanic WMC still firmly supports Democrats, they largely do it for noneconomic reasons these days. But that's a subject for a different day. What we're talking about here is mostly about the white WMC.</p> <p><strong>But has this drift toward the Republican Party even happened? Haven't you written before that it's a myth?</strong></p> <p>Yes I have, based on the work of Larry Bartels, who says this is solely a Southern phenomenon. However, I've been persuaded by <a href="" target="_blank">Lane Kenworthy's work</a> that the drift is both real and national. It's not a myth.</p> <p><strong>Lemieux says that relative to Republicans, Democrats are better than I give them credit for. What about that?</strong></p> <p>No argument there. I don't think anyone could read this site for more than five minutes and not know what I think of the modern Republican Party.</p> <p><iframe align="right" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="290" src="" style="margin: 8px 0px 15px 30px;" width="450"></iframe></p> <p><strong>Plus he says that Obamacare has been a big plus for the WMC. And a bunch of folks on Twitter said the same thing.</strong></p> <p>That's a point I'll concede. I was thinking of a few things here. First, most WMC voters already get health coverage at work, so Obamacare's impact on them is limited. Beyond that, the Medicaid expansion was targeted at the poor, and the exchange subsidies get pretty small by the time you reach a middle-class income. But my memory was faulty on that score. A middle-class family with an income of, say, $50-60,000 still gets a pretty hefty subsidy. And of course there are other features of Obamacare that help the middle class too. I was a little too dismissive of this.</p> <p>On the other hand, this is also a pretty good example of Democrats snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They stuck together unanimously to pass the bill, which was great. But ideological ambivalence had already watered it down significantly by then, and ever since Obama signed it, it seems like half the party has been running for cover lest anyone know they voted for it. If Democrats themselves can't loudly sell their own bill as a middle class boon, it's hardly any surprise that lots of middle-class voters don't see it that way either.</p> <p><strong>But Democrats have done a lot of things beyond just Obamacare.</strong></p> <p>Sure, <a href="" target="_blank">and I've listed them myself from time to time.</a> But here's the thing: folks like Lemieux and me can look at this stuff and make a case that Democrats are helping the middle class. Unfortunately, it's mostly too abstract to register with average voters. Did the stimulus bill help the WMC? Probably, but it's not concrete enough for anyone to feel like it helped them personally. How about the CFPB, which Lemieux mentions? I think it's great. But if you stopped a dozen average folks on the street, not one would have the slightest inkling of what it is or whether they benefited from it. These things are just too small, too watered-down, and too sporadic to have much impact. What's more, whatever small impact they do have gets wiped out whenever Democrats support things like the 2005 bankruptcy bill or get cold feet about repealing something like the carried interest loophole.</p> <p><strong>OK, but why did you "yadda yadda" all the genuinely big things Democrats have done for the poor?</strong></p> <p>I didn't. I explicitly mentioned them. And this isn't some kind of shell game over definitions of "poor" and "working class." After all, no one ever asks why the poor have drifted away from the Democratic Party, even though they presumably have social views that are similar to the WMC. You know why? Because they haven't drifted away. And why is that? <em>Because Democrats have done stuff for them</em>.</p> <p>That's the whole point here. The WMC feels like Democrats do stuff for the poor, but not for them. And there's a lot of truth to that.</p> <p><strong>But what can Democrats do? Republicans block every proposal they ever make.</strong></p> <p>I'm not blaming them for that. Politics is politics. And I'm not ignoring the fact that Dems stand up against Republicans all the time. They do. Nor is this an exercise in "both sides do it." Obviously Republicans are far more slavishly devoted to the interests of corporations and the rich than Democrats.</p> <p>Hell, I don't even personally oppose every manifestation of the neoliberal policy evolution of the post-70s Democratic Party. Some of it I support. I'm a fairly moderate, neoliberalish squish myself most of the time. If you care about evidence in the policymaking process, the evidence is pretty strong that some lefty dreams just don't make sense.</p> <p>Nonetheless, the corporate drift of the Democratic Party since the 80s is simply a matter of record. Lemieux and I can toss out lists of small-ball Democratic accomplishments all day long, but the vast majority of low-information voters have never heard of them or don't think they really do them any good. Maybe they're mistaken or misguided, but that's the way it is.</p> <p>If Democrats want to regain the support of the WMC, they have to consistently unite behind stuff that benefits the WMC in very simple, concrete ways. Democrats do that on abortion, for example, and everyone knows where they stand even if they don't win all their battles. It's the same way with economic policy. Even if they don't win all or most of their battles, they need to unite behind real programs for the middle class; they need to talk about them loudly; they need to stop diluting their message by taking the side of the plutocrats whenever it's convenient; and they have to keep it up for decades.</p> <p>Maybe the reality of modern politics prevents this. But if that's the case, then it's time to stop navel-gazing about why the WMC has drifted away from the Democrats. The answer is staring us all in the face.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Economy Labor Wed, 12 Mar 2014 03:21:37 +0000 Kevin Drum 247336 at The Mystery of the Disappearing Malaysian Plane Deepens Even Further <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Here's the latest strangeness surrounding the <a href="" target="_blank">disappearance of that Malaysian airliner:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>As a search continued Tuesday for a Malaysian airliner that mysteriously disappeared, <strong>Malaysian military officials said radar data showed it inexplicably turned around and headed toward the Malacca Strait,</strong> hundreds of miles off its scheduled flight path, news agencies and Malaysian media reported.</p> <p>....<strong>Search teams from 10 nations had initially focused their efforts mainly east of the peninsula</strong>....A high-ranking military official involved in the investigation confirmed that the plane changed course and said it was believed to <img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/blog_malaysia_flight_370_2.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 20px 0px 15px 30px;">be flying low, the Associated Press reported.</p> </blockquote> <p>It is, of course, mysterious that the plane veered off course and turned west an hour after takeoff. But that's not the real puzzle. The plane disappeared on Saturday. If the Malaysian military tracked it turning west into the Malacca Strait in real time, how is it that it took them three days to bother telling anyone about this? That seems damn peculiar even if things were just generally fubared at the time. <a href=";_r=0" target="_blank">Here's another account:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>The [Malaysian] air force chief did not say what kind of signals the military had tracked. But his remarks raised questions about whether the military had noticed the plane as it flew across the country and about when it informed civilian authorities.</p> <p>According to the general’s account, the last sign of the plane was recorded at 2:40 a.m., and the aircraft was then near Pulau Perak, an island more than 100 miles off the western shore of the Malaysian peninsula. <strong>That assertion stunned aviation experts as well as officials in China,</strong> who had been told again and again that the authorities lost contact with the plane more than an hour earlier, when it was on course over the Gulf of Thailand, east of the peninsula. But the new account seemed to fit with the decision on Monday, previously unexplained, to expand the search area to include waters west of the peninsula.</p> </blockquote> <p><a href="" target="_blank">And yet another:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>It is unclear why the west coast contact, if correct, was not made public until now. Asked on Monday why crews were searching the strait, the country's civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman told reporters: <strong>"There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."</strong></p> </blockquote> <p>Mysteriouser and mysteriouser.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Military Tue, 11 Mar 2014 22:14:10 +0000 Kevin Drum 247316 at Infamous George Zimmerman Prosecutor Puts Disproportionate Number of Black Men on Death Row <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Florida is working hard these days to make itself a case study argument in favor of abolishing the death penalty. In a state that has seen <a href="" target="_blank">more innocent people exonerated from death row</a> than any other in the country, lawmakers last year passed legislation to try to speed up the pace of executions. Last month, <span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 24px;">Gov. Rick Scott (R)</span> set a dubious record for presiding over more <a href="" target="_blank">executions in his first term</a> than any governor since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976.</p> <p>Meanwhile, the state <a href="" target="_blank">continues to ignore US Supreme Court</a> rulings banning the execution of the mentally ill and intellectually disabled. Just last week, the state argued before the Supreme Court that it <a href="" target="_blank">didn’t want to use accepted scientific principles </a>to comply with the court's ban on executing mentally disabled people because that would spare too many death row residents, a move that would be "inconsistent with Florida’s purposes." And now comes the news the state's most notorious prosecutor has not only sent a disproportionate number of felons to death row, but a disproportionate number of African-Americans, once again raising the troubling issue of racial disparities in the state's capital punishment system.</p> </body></html> <p style="font-size: 1.083em;"><a href="/mojo/2014/03/angela-corey-florida-death-row"><strong><em>Continue Reading »</em></strong></a></p> MoJo Civil Liberties Courts Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:35:52 +0000 Stephanie Mencimer 247226 at Opposition to Obamacare Remains Under 40 Percent, the Same as Always <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><a href="" target="_blank">Greg Sargent</a> points us to the <a href="" target="_blank">latest CNN poll on Obamacare</a> today, one of the few polls that accurately judges public attitudes on the subject. Instead of just asking whether people support or oppose the law, CNN asks if their opposition is because the law is too liberal or <em>not liberal enough</em>. The latter aren't tea partiers <img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/blog_cnn_obamacare_support_february_2014.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 20px 5px 15px 30px;">who hate Obamacare, they're lefties and Democrats who mostly support the concept of Obamacare but want it to go further. Counting them as opponents of Obamacare has always been seriously misleading.</p> <p>I went ahead and charted CNN's poll results over time, and they've been remarkably stable. Ever since the law passed, about 40 percent of the country has opposed it, while more than 50 percent have either supported it or said they want it to go even further. This goes a long way toward explaining the supposedly mysterious result that lots of people oppose Obamacare but few want to repeal it. The truth is that actual opposition has always been a minority view. Polls routinely show that only about <a href="" target="_blank">40 percent of Americans want to repeal Obamacare,</a> and there's nothing mysterious about that once you understand that this is also the level of actual opposition to the law.</p> <p><a href="" target="_blank">Sargent has more here,</a> including some interesting internals and crosstabs.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Health Care Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:15:59 +0000 Kevin Drum 247296 at President Obama Reaches Out to the Kids <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><iframe align="right" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="290" src="" style="margin: 8px 0px 15px 30px;" width="450"></iframe></p> <p>Via Andrew Sullivan, I see that President Obama has taped a <em>Between Two Ferns</em> segment with comedian Zach Galifianakis to promote Obamacare. <a href="" target="_blank"><em>Time's</em> James Poniewozik comments:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>It’s a specific, unusually edgy kind of comedy for any politician, much less a sitting President–a cringe-humor show whose whole idea is playing off staged discomfort with the guest. Obama trades insults, he stews at the clueless slights (will he build his Presidential library “in Hawaii or your home country of Kenya”?), he needles Galiafinakis about his handsome Hangover co-star Bradley Cooper. (“He kind of carried that movie, didn’t he?”)</p> <p>It’s the tone of the comedy as much as the online medium that really targets the young audience Obama is pitching to here. There’s a cringe-humor generation gap; <strong>if you’re over a certain age, or simply haven’t watched much of a certain kind of contemporary comedy, you’ll probably watch it thinking that the segment is bombing and Obama is getting legitimately angry.</strong> But it’s a good fit for Obama’s sense of humor, which is a little dry and a little cutting–in ways that don’t always play in rooms when there are no ferns present.</p> </blockquote> <p>This doesn't seem quite right to me. I'm in my fifties, and I thought it was pretty funny. Maybe you have to be even older not to get it? Post-SNL, perhaps? I'm not sure. Go ahead and <a href="" target="_blank">watch it here</a> and let's do a reader poll. Rate it from 1 to 5 stars and be sure to include your age.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Health Care Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:33:44 +0000 Kevin Drum 247286 at Taking Advantage of Cancer Patients for Fun and Profit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>When we last met cancer patient Julie Boonstra, she was the centerpiece of a TV ad claiming that her new insurance plan under Obamacare was far more expensive than her old plan and didn't cover all her medications. On examination, it turned out to cost about the same. Today, however, <img align="right" alt="" class="image image-_original" src="/files/blog_boonstra.jpg" style="border: 1px solid black; margin: 20px 20px 15px 30px;">the <em>Detroit News</em> reports that, in fact, Obamacare will <em>save</em> Boonstra <a href="" target="_blank">more than a thousand dollars per year:</a></p> <blockquote> <p>Boonstra said Monday her new plan she dislikes is the Blue Cross Premier Gold health care plan, which caps patient responsibility for out-of-pocket costs at $5,100 a year, lower than the federal law’s maximum of $6,350 a year. It means the new plan will save her at least $1,200 compared with her former insurance plan she preferred that was ended under Obamacare’s coverage requirements.</p> <p><strong>....When advised of the details of her Blues’ plan, Boonstra said the idea that it would be cheaper “can’t be true.”</strong></p> <p><strong>“I personally do not believe that,” Boonstra said.</strong></p> <p>....She also said her out-of-pocket maximum could be higher than advertised because there’s one prescription that was previously covered by her old plan that isn’t and she now buys with a separate prescription discount card....<strong>Boonstra’s health plan covers all prescriptions, [Blue Cross spokesman Andy] Hetzel said,</strong> who advises she use the coverage instead of a prescription discount card so co-pays would go toward meeting the out-of-pocket maximum.</p> </blockquote> <p>If you think I'm posting about this just because it's a big, fat poke in the face to the Koch-funded ambulance chasers at AFP who originally ran the Boonstra ad—well, you're right. But there's a real point to be made about this too. I don't know anything about Julie Boonstra, but it sure seems as if she's been bamboozled by a bunch of fanatic Obamacare haters who have caused her a ton of pain and misery. Boonstra had some genuine problems with the rollout of the exchanges, just as many people did, but once that finally got straightened out, she ended up with coverage that was both better and less expensive than her previous plan. There's no reason for her to be so anxious about her continued care.</p> <p>But she never really learned that. For purely venal political reasons, AFP found itself a woman fighting cancer and proceeded to stoke her fears of her new health coverage in order to get a TV ad made. <em>A TV ad</em>. These are people who, if there's any justice, should not be sleeping easily at night. They are swine.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Health Care Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:43:47 +0000 Kevin Drum 247281 at Dianne Feinstein Upset that CIA Is Spying on Dianne Feinstein <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p><a href="" target="_blank">If the CIA has lost Dianne Feinstein....</a></p> <blockquote> <p>The head of the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday sharply accused the CIA of violating federal law and undermining the constitutional principle of congressional oversight as she detailed publicly for the first time how the agency secretly removed documents from computers used by her panel to investigate a controversial interrogation program.</p> <p>Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said that the situation amounted to attempted intimidation of congressional investigators, adding: <strong>“I am not taking it lightly.”</strong></p> </blockquote> <p>In the end, I suspect that she will indeed take it lightly. Still, if there's one thing an intelligence agency shouldn't do, it's get caught monitoring the Senate committee that oversees it. The intelligence community can spy on millions of Americans and Dianne Feinstein yawns. But spy on Dianne Feinstein and you're in trouble.</p> </body></html> Kevin Drum Civil Liberties Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:52:13 +0000 Kevin Drum 247271 at We're Still at War: Photo of the Day for March 11, 2014 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <div class="inline inline-left" style="display: table; width: 1%"><img alt="" class="image" src="/files/0311-630x354.jpg"></div> <div id="meta"> <div class="photo-desc" id="description_div"> <p class="rtecenter"><em>Sgt. Scott Hulsizer (left), a team leader with second platoon, Bravo Company, 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion, 3rd Marine Division, based in Okinawa, Japan, fires an M136 AT-4 rocket launcher after breaking away from the firing line as part of a weapons training package on the Kaneohe Bay Range Training Facility, March 4, 2014. 3rd Recon Bn. fired multiple weapon systems, such as the .50 caliber M2 Browning heavy machine gun, MK-19 automatic grenade launcher and M136 AT-4 rocket launchers, as part of a two day weapons package for Exercise Sandfisher. The weapons package focused on increasing the platoon’s proficiency with each system on the battlefield. (<a href="" target="_blank">U.S. Marine Corps photo</a> by Lance Cpl. Matthew Bragg/Released)</em></p> </div> </div> </body></html> MoJo Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:09:58 +0000 247266 at Here Is President Obama's "Between Two Ferns" Interview With Zach Galifianakis <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>Tuesday morning, comedy website <a href="" target="_blank">Funny or Die</a> released an episode of Zach Galifianakis' satirical interview show <em><a href="http://" target="_blank">Between Two Ferns</a></em> featuring Barack Obama. The 44th president came on to promote the Affordable Care Act. (At the end of the six-and-a-half-minute video, there is <a href="" target="_blank">a link to</a></p> <p>The whole thing is pretty funny. To be clear, it isn't going to set the world on fire or anything, but there are definitely some amusing bits. ("What is it like to be the last black president?" "<em>Seriously</em>?") Funny or Die has a very good relationship with the Obama administration, which includes creating a recent batch of <a href="" target="_blank">pro-Obamacare</a> <a href="" target="_blank">videos</a>, and even <a href="" target="_blank">pitching the president</a> a sketch idea directly. <a href="" target="_blank">Galifianakis</a> is himself an <a href="" target="_blank">Obama supporter</a>.</p> <p>Here is the whole bit for your viewing pleasure:</p> <p><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="400" mozallowfullscreen="" src="" webkitallowfullscreen="" width="630"></iframe></p> <div style="text-align:left;font-size:x-small;margin-top:0;width:640px;"> </div> <p>Or as the White House describes it:</p> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"> <p>• President Obama • Zach Galifianakis • Spider bites All things you can find here → <a href=""></a> <a href=";src=hash">#BetweenTwoFerns</a> <a href=";src=hash">#GetCoveredNow</a></p> — The White House (@WhiteHouse) <a href="">March 11, 2014</a> </blockquote> <script async src="//" charset="utf-8"></script> </body></html> MoJo Film and TV Top Stories Tue, 11 Mar 2014 13:02:06 +0000 Ben Dreyfuss and Asawin Suebsaeng 247261 at You Don't Have to Be a Foul-Mouthed White Guy to Be a World-Class Chef <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" ""> <html><body> <p>What does it take to break the mould in a prestigious, white-male-dominated industry? I tackled that question in a recent <a href="" target="_blank">piece</a> on how women chefs, who, despite impressive advances in recent years, get short shrift when it comes to big-name awards and invitations to high-minded culinary confabs. But restaurants' diversity problem is bigger than just a gender imbalance. More then two centuries after the invention of the fine-dining restaurant in the wake of the French Revolution, chefly prestige remains largely—but not completely—the domain of not just males, but <em>white</em> males. What gives?</p> <p>On a frigid evening in Harlem last week, I got the opportunity to put the question directly to four mould-breakers in a public conversation at Ginny's Supper Club, the cozy, red-tinted, speakeasy-like saloon in the cellar of <a href="" target="_blank">Red Rooster</a>, chef Marcus Samuelsson's neo-soul-food establishment on Lenox just north of 125th Street. The evening started with wine and snacks, which included house-made charcuterie, cheese, and cornbread madeleines—the latter, I thought, a clever mashup of French and US traditions, a Proustian nod to our most memory-drenched and historically fraught region, the South. My own melancholic musings aside, the room buzzed and glowed in the hour or so leading up to the panel—a diverse crowd of 150 or so chatted and circulated, young, old, and in between, culinary students, chefs, writers, and food lovers of all stripes, from the neighborhood and other parts of Manhattan, from Brooklyn, and even, I hear, from <a href="" target="_blank">Chicago</a>.</p> <p>Eventually, we took to the stage: to my right Marcus himself; then Gabrielle Hamilton, chef/proprietor of the highly influential East Village spot <a href="" target="_blank">Prune</a>; then Charlene Johnson-Hadley, a daughter of Brooklyn's West Indian diaspora who worked her way up through Samuelsson's Red Rooster kitchen and is now executive chef at his Lincoln Center outpost <a href="" target="_blank">American Table Bar and Cafe</a>; and finally Floyd Cardoz, chef at <a href="" target="_blank">North End Grill</a> in Battery Park City, who brought the cooking of his native India into the glamor of a buzzy Manhattan restaurant with the late and much-lamented Tabla.</p> <p>Unfortunately, our conversation wasn't recorded. But<em> Eater </em>delivered a <a href="" target="_blank">"10 Best Quotes" piece</a>, <em>Serious Eats</em>' Jacqueline Raposo has a very thoughtful <a href="" target="_blank">post</a> on the event, also with several quotes, and the blogger Ronda Lee offered <a href="" target="_blank">worthy commentary</a> on the event.</p> <p>My favorite parts of the discussion were:</p> <div class="inline inline-left" style="display: table; width: 1%"> <img alt="" class="image" src="/files/marcus-gab.jpg"><div class="caption">Two New York icons: Samuelsson and Hamiton</div> </div> <p>1) Marcus—who was born in Ethiopia and raised in Sweden—talking about coming up as an ambitious young cook in France, where the message he got was<em> "ce n'est pas possible,"</em> i.e., it's not possible for a black man to command his own kitchen. His outsider status served as a spur, he said: With the conventional path to chefdom blocked to him, he had to forge his own, which included moving to the melting pot of New York and grabbing the reins of the Swedish restaurant Aquavit.</p> <p>2) Gabrielle talking about how she found herself in the restaurant world not out of a passion for cooking, but rather out of the need to support herself at a very young age—and about how being a woman in restaurant kitchens, when she came up in the 1980s, meant having to forge an identity, a way to fit in, since there was no preexisting identity to fall into. Here's her money quote, which I'm cribbing from <em>Eater</em> because I didn't take notes:</p> <blockquote> <p>Yes, there were horrible white men in the kitchens and the hardest part of that is the contortions you'd put yourself through to figure out your place in that kitchen. Should I be a chain-smoking dirt-talking motherfucker who can crank it fucking out? Or should I be kind of a dainty female with lipstick and be like, 'Can you help me with this stock pot because I just can't?' Frankly it's a freaking second job on top of what you're already doing. One of the hardest parts is trying to make a viable self that you can live with and and go home and respect at the end of the day.</p> </blockquote> <p>3) Charlene talking about how she was drawn to cooking as a child through her grandmother's Jamaican-inflected kitchen, and how, while in college in the 1990s, she realized she wanted to make a career of cooking, which sent her to culinary school and her current path. It struck me that unlike Marcus and Gabrielle, who came up in the 1980s, Charlene could envision for herself a conventional path to success: go to chef's school, get a job. Here's Charlene's take on being a woman of color in the professional kitchen (quote from Raposo's piece): "I just think you need to get past yourself and not think of yourself as 'the different one.' That shouldn't be your focus. Your focus should be following your ambition, making sure you are doing what it is you want to do, and making yourself an asset to wherever you are."</p> <p>4) Floyd on aspiring to cook professionally while growing up middle class in India—and the culture shock it gave his parents, who hoped he would be a doctor. Until pretty recently, the professional kitchen was a place middle class people aspired to flee. Now, with the rise of the celebrity chef, it has emerged as a site of aspiration. Hamilton touched on that topic, too, when she mentioned that suddenly, "40-year-old white males" are applying to work in her kitchen. She went on (quote from Raposo):</p> <blockquote> <p>Now we have the whole new problem of, "I used to be an architect" and "I have a trust fund" and "I have so much more money and power than you're ever going to have in this world." And you have to go up to that guy and say, "You know, your sauce is a little salty."</p> </blockquote> <p>As Ronda Lee put it in her blog post, "gender and race [in the professional kitchen] is a lot to cover in a two-hour discussion." And our panel in Harlem last week barely scratched the surface. I learned again what I learned when writing my piece on gender: This is a fascinating and complex conversation, one that people working to make the restaurant world more inclusive are eager to have. There's so much we didn't get to—for example, what about the role of Mexican immigrants, who are the lifeblood of kitchen lines from Los Angeles to New York? We at <em>Mother Jones</em> plan to continue exploring it. Stay tuned.</p> </body></html> Tom Philpott Food and Ag Race and Ethnicity Sex and Gender Top Stories Tue, 11 Mar 2014 10:00:06 +0000 Tom Philpott 247236 at	http://www.motherjones.com/rss/blogs/2012/10/how-twitter-ruining-political-journalism%14%E2%80%A6%3Fpage%3D2	<urn:uuid:3b32cc05-860d-46a7-9482-91c9dddc7d08>	en	0.909424	0.050268
Titans Forever by Blue Ten When the Titans defeat a mysterious assassin targeting Starfire, they are thrust into a journey to possibly save an entire system from destruction. Can the Titans' friendships and bonds survive in the harsh environment of war? RobxStar, BBxRae I do not claim any ownership of the TV series 'Teen Titans', or any of its counterparts. Contains major spoilers for 'Trouble in Tokyo'. Episode One: Hunted - - - Act One: Cheers, Plays, and Showoffs A feeling of laziness drifted about with the warm breeze on this sunny day in Jump City. As was typical on such a day, the denizens of the metropolis – at least, those fond of the outdoors – would flock to the rolling green hills and shady trees of the park. None had come to satisfy vocational responsibilities or obligations of that nature; all had come to forget about such things, for as long as the good weather would allow. Even the city's five most notorious workaholics could not ignore the call of leisure time. Running alongside the coast, the park's green acres stretched on, covered in many places by populations of short yet leafy trees. The hills looked out upon the brilliant blue of the sea, leading downward to the white sands of the beach, where many more people had undoubtedly taken the day off. However, the upper portions, where clearings in the trees created large open spaces, seemed to be among the favored spots. Here, in a clear patch of green beside a lengthy dirt walkway, a tense battle was in recess. The two opposing forces were both but a field's run from victory. Cyborg stared forward at his opponents, fierce determination in his human eye. "Maybe y'all should just give up," he cracked, smirking confidently. "It might spare you the embarrassment of all-out defeat," he finished with a well-placed incentive. Beast Boy, with no less confidence on his smiling, green face, stood a few feet to the left of Cyborg's tall form, ready for the deciding match to take place. "Heh," chuckled Robin, looking out across the open field, his back to the view of the ocean. "Funny, I was just about to say the same thing," he said, lowering one eyebrow under his mask as he gave a sporting grin. Starfire, though having lived on Earth for a long enough time, had always found herself unable to engage in 'the trash-talking', and so intended to simply wait until it was over. She stood at Robin's right side, ever supportive, though in slight confusion over strange Earth customs such as this. Without further ado, Robin clenched the plate-sized, circular orange object in his hand and took a step back. Leaping forward, he threw his arm to the right and sent the disk flying across the field. "A splendid kick off, Robin!" cheered Starfire, leaping into the air as well, an immense smile on her face as the Frisbee cut through the air. Watching carefully as the saucer made its way over, Cyborg bent low to the ground and launched himself upward, his arm stretched high to make the catch. The spirit of competition abound in his expression as he caught the wayward object, Cyborg made an easy landing on the grass and stood up to point across the field. "Let's finish this in one shot," he said, peering over his shoulder at Beast Boy. "BB, go long!" Nodding, the changeling took off toward Robin and Starfire's end of the field without restraint. Entirely focused on his goal as he continued, he had a simple strategy planned: run far, leap high. Grinning widely, he took several more quick steps until something abruptly snatched his attention away. "WAIT!" shouted Cyborg as loud as he could... which, apparently, was more than enough. Almost as though Cyborg's speech had become a physical obstruction in front of him, Beast Boy found his upper body halted. Unable to keep his feet from moving, he tripped over the grass and landed flat on his back. Groaning, about to stand up and protest, he turned to see what Cyborg had called a time-out for and immediately decided to join in. A figure was stationed across the field from the dirt pathway, under a nice, shady tree. Sitting atop a flat, gray stone at the trunk of said tree, Raven remained still, a hard-cover novel held close to her face. Quietly, she flipped aside another page, paying little noticeable attention to the goings-on around her. Cyborg and Beast Boy now stood under the shadow of the tree, staring with narrowed eyes... something which Raven found excruciatingly impossible to ignore. "...What?" questioned the empath after a long pause. She looked up from the pages of her book at the two, the extent of her vexation made visible by the sudden appearance of a vein on her temple. Finally getting the response he was looking for, Cyborg's face grew a smile. "Hey, didn't Raven say she would 'root for us' since she's not playing?" he questioned, crossing his arms about his chest and looking over to Beast Boy, who stood at Raven's other side. "It was a figure of speech," replied Raven, hoping to clarify things for Cyborg, at least. The next sentence, however, was intended for Beast Boy. "And, I only said it because, at the time, I was physically closer to--" "Yeah," Beast Boy cut in, responding to Cyborg's question, apparently without knowledge of Raven's words. "And I don't hear any 'rooting'," he finished, cupping a hand beside his ear and leaning toward Raven expectantly. Letting out a low sigh, Raven set the book down on her lap and stared off at nothing with a blank look on her face. "W-o-o-o," she cheered, with about as much enthusiasm as her expression displayed. "Go, team..." she continued listlessly. "Beat 'em..." she added more, reveling inwardly at the bewildered expressions Beast Boy and Cyborg now displayed. "Kick their collective a--" "Okay already..." Cyborg suddenly broke in, shaking his head with narrowed eyes, his arms now hanging limply at his sides. "'Figure of speech'..." quoted Beast Boy, shoulders slumped forward, eyes looking off to the side. "We get it." As Cyborg and Beast Boy walked away, defeated and dispirited, Raven picked her book up and smirked. One more victory... and surely more to come. Hardly a day went by when she couldn't find some form of amusement in this manner. As soon as Cyborg and Beast Boy made it back to the open space of the playing field, they stood still for a moment in silence. A slight wind rushed, rustling the grass beneath the two and whistling through the trees. Feet tapping on the ground, a runner in red and black made his way across the adjacent pathway... A group of birds chirped in the distance, their song filling up the relative silence. "So... uh," started Cyborg, lifting the object in his hand and tapping the side of his head with it. "What were we doing again?" he queried. In response, Beast Boy simply brought a hand up to his face and scratched his chin thoughtfully, eyes closed in concentration. Unable to believe what was going on before them, Robin and Starfire remained in place, faces catering to looks of utter confusion. After a moment of examining the situation, however, they soon caught scent of what might be going on. Their expressions soon shifted to ones of annoyance. "THROW THE FRISBEE!!" shouted Robin and Starfire in unison, fists held low and clenched tightly. Caught off guard, Beast Boy and Cyborg nearly fell over in response to the explosion that erupted from across the way. Repositioning themselves, the two chuckled sheepishly. Considering they had actually managed to get that reaction out of Starfire... and not just Robin, they figured they had done enough damage. "Heh..." Cyborg held up a hand in defense, a bead of sweat rolling down his forehead. "Just messin' with ya," he said, closing his eyes. Finally getting into the game again, he looked back to Beast Boy. "All right. How 'bout we try for the 'Parallel Play'" he suggested in a sly tone of voice. Beast Boy took a moment to grin back. "Gotcha," he replied with a secretive understanding. Readying themselves, Cyborg grasped the Frisbee, looking across the open field, and Beast Boy slid one foot back, preparing for a mad dash. Quickly, Beast Boy took off, kicking up blades of grass with the sheer amount of force he applied to his steps. Waiting a moment for Beast Boy to gain some distance, Cyborg poured all his strength into throwing the Frisbee, sending it high to follow behind the changeling. "They're going for the 'Parallel Play'," said Robin, watching closely as Beast Boy headed their way from his end of the field. "Nice try. But we won't fall for that again," he added, smiling competitively. "No we will not," agreed Starfire with a joyous expression, implying that they had already come up with a countermeasure. Moving closer to Robin, she reached out and took hold of his hand. The two stood almost like a barricade as Beast Boy, in the distance, could be seen shifting his form. As a cheetah, Beast Boy tore his way onward, keeping up with the speed of the Frisbee behind him. As soon as he met a critical distance with Robin and Starfire, he bounded forward, changing form once again. Landing on the ground as a kangaroo, he wasted no time and sent himself soaring with a powerful leap, morphing back into human form to grin at Robin and Starfire as he passed them by. The two had made no attempt to get past him, or even move at all. Ignoring that odd fact, he looked back to see the Frisbee still coming his way; deciding he had some time, Beast Boy simply looked forward and stretched his arms out at his sides. As soon as Beast Boy's attention was away, Starfire made her move. Taking her free hand and grasping Robin's upper arm, she turned around to face Beast Boy and launched the Boy Wonder into the air with one quick motion. She smiled, watching Robin close in on Beast Boy and the Frisbee. The rest of the game was now up to him. 'Hehe. Couldn't get past my block,' thought Beast Boy with a chuckle as he flew along, unaware of what had just occurred behind him. 'Just like last time...' he trailed off, suddenly sensing something wasn't quite right. Slowly, he turned to look over his shoulder. Robin held his arms back and his knees forward to gain speed. His cape flapped furiously behind him as he flew closer, a confident look on his face. "Hey, Beast Boy," he called, causing the changeling to shift his weight and face him, shocked, of course. Robin decided to gloat a little. After all, they had found a good way around Cyborg and Beast Boy's... 'invincible play'. "Got anything to say before this is over?" he questioned. Beast Boy paused for a moment, unsure of what he could do. Suddenly, though, the Frisbee caught his eye; spinning through the air above their heads, it seemed to have gained some height since he last looked. "Yeah," he responded, trading his shocked expression for one of smug sureness. "Thanks for the lift," he said, making sure to give Robin a nice, big grin. "...Huh?" wondered Robin, his facial expression contorting as confusion set in. Before anything more could be said, Robin's face was met by the underside of a large, green frog. In an attempt to remove the amphibian, he moved his arms forward and reached for his face... which caused him to lose some of his forward momentum. With surprising force, the frog's legs pushed away from his face. As Robin's flight slowed, he could see Beast Boy morphing back into human form and reaching for the Frisbee... smiling appropriately. Taking his mind off of his slight frustration, Robin braced himself, realizing, with his current rate of descent, he would soon come in contact with the ground. Seeing Robin falling out of the sky, Starfire quickly took off in his direction, looking up and holding out her arms as she ran. Just before the Boy Wonder could hit the ground, Starfire leaped forward and made a quick catch. The two suddenly found themselves tumbling across the grass due to the speed at which they met, as well as the hill's slight slope. Finally coming to a stop on her back, dizzy eyes facing the sky, Starfire sat up straight and turned to Robin... who was on his hands and knees, in the process of pulling his face away from the ground. "You are okay?" she asked, finding it hard not to smile as he wiped a few blades of grass from his face. "Yeah..." replied Robin, remaining close to the ground as his lightheadedness from the spin wore off. "Just remind me never to try frog legs..." he said, smiling with a slight cringe as he remembered the frog falling right on his open mouth. Seeing the Frisbee coming his way, Beast Boy knew victory wasn't far. All he had to do was make a catch, and land safely in the 'end zone'. Reaching up high, he opened his palm and waited for the object to glide right into it. However, a pair of... intriguing voices soon turned his eyes away from his goal. "Wow, look at that guy," said one of two girls who had been walking along the path beside the field. She tugged at her friend's elbow and pointed up to the sky. Blocking their eyes from the sun, the two girls watched in awe as Beast Boy flew along. Short, blonde hair pushed away from her eyes, the first girl simply smiled and stared up through sparkling blue eyes, looking thoroughly starstruck. Mouth agape, the second girl, a brunette with long, wavy locks, appeared truly impressed. Though a little surprised at first, Beast Boy's ego quickly grew several notches in response to the extra attention. Finding it hard to resist showing off a little, he placed his hands behind his head and took a relaxed pose, as though flying through the air was nothing to him. "Hey, ladies," he spoke over the wind, sending a wink their way with a large grin on his face. The two girls responded by giggling. Watching from his side of the field, Cyborg shook his head and slapped a hand over his face, hoping against hope that the little showoff could still make the catch. Raven, though still sitting under the tree, had her attention grabbed by the events... but mostly, the giggling; looking down the field with one eyebrow raised, she nonchalantly flipped aside a page of her book. In the process of helping each other up, Robin and Starfire took notice of Beast Boy and wondered if they had been given another chance to win. Deciding to show off again by making the catch in some outlandish manner, Beast Boy morphed into a small dog with big, bright eyes, and opened his jaw wide. As the Frisbee came close enough, he closed his eyes and quickly snapped his mouth shut. 'It's in the bag,' he thought, smiling inwardly as he reached the peak of his arc and began moving toward the ground. Quickly, though, he realized something was missing. Opening his eyes, Beast Boy felt nothing but air in his mouth and looked up to see the Frisbee flying away above him. His expression faltered as he felt himself gaining speed, closing in on the ground. Morphing back into a human, he flailed his arms about wildly, neglecting to try another animal form due to his state of panic. Face colliding rather painfully with the ground, Beast Boy slid across the field a good distance. Sitting up and spitting out chunks of dirt and grass from his mouth, the changeling looked up through squinted eyes to see the Frisbee continuing its flight down the hill. He chuckled nervously with an embarrassed grin as the orange disc disappeared behind a grouping of trees. 'Wow... that flew pretty far...' thought Beast Boy, massaging the pain from his forehead. "You just had to turn into a dog," commented Cyborg, now standing just behind Beast Boy, who flinched in response to his words. Beast Boy turned around to see Cyborg staring down at him seriously. Though he knew the fault was entirely his, he felt the need to defend himself in some way. "Tch... You're the one who issued that 'no flying' rule," he started, making sure not to look Cyborg in the eye as he spoke. "Plus... everyone knows chicks love puppies," he finished, crossing his arms defiantly. After a long silence, Beast Boy opened his eyes to a squint, seeing Cyborg's unchanged expression... though his eyebrows seemed much lower than before. "'I'll go find the Frisbee'?" Beast Boy spoke for Cyborg, finally giving up his useless defense as he pointed off to where the aforementioned object had gone. "That's more like it," said Cyborg, expression still set in stone, watching as Beast Boy guiltily made his way down the hill. As soon as Beast Boy disappeared, Cyborg let his shoulders fall forward. 'We were so close!' he thought, eyes practically tearing up at the thought of losing in such an embarrassing way. However, he knew it was only karma, losing when he expected so much to win. "I guess there's no such thing as an invincible play..." he admitted to himself reluctantly. "So..." started Starfire, looking away from the far end of the field, her attention back on Robin as they walked to where Cyborg and Beast Boy's starting point had been. "This is a good thing?" she asked, smiling hopefully with a hint of blush in her cheeks. "Well," replied Robin, coming to a stop as he thought back to the events during that final round, "it was a tie-breaker, and Cyborg overthrew, so I guess that means..." he trailed off, crossing his arms in thought. "We are victorious?" Starfire clapped her hands together happily. She had been hoping for this, because it gave her an opportunity to once again try one of her new favorite Earth traditions. Stretching out her arms, Starfire locked Robin in a strong embrace and administered a nice, big smooch to his cheek. Though, considering they were together now, and he had gotten mostly used to that kind of thing, Robin found himself caught completely off guard by the kiss. Entering into a stupefied daze, a ridiculous smile on his face, Robin swayed back and forth as Starfire let him go – happily standing aside, currently unaware of her affect on the boy. Most likely due to a combination of flying through the air at high speed, falling, tumbling across the grass, and receiving a kiss, Robin suddenly lost his balance and fell to the ground. Placing a hand over her mouth and gasping, Starfire immediately knelt down to help her boyfriend up. A small sound of amusement could be heard to the side of Robin and Starfire. "Still can't handle those victory kisses, huh?" asked Raven without looking away from her book, a tiny smirk on her face as she flipped aside another page. - - - Act Two: Killer Smile Having taken the form of a bloodhound, Beast Boy sniffed away at the ground, sensitive nose passing over each blade of grass as he meticulously searched for the scent of the Frisbee. Coming upon the distinct smell, he began to pick up his pace, snout still pressed firmly against the ground. All the while, his mind was brimming with various grumblings... 'Why do I have to search for it...? He's the one that overthrew,' thought Beast Boy with contempt, paying little mind to the flurry of footsteps suddenly passing him by. 'Well... I guess it was partly my fault,' he admitted to himself. 'Wouldn't have happened if I didn't show off like that,' he continued as another set of footsteps thumped against the grass at his sides and quickly faded out of earshot. 'Then again... Cyborg probably would have done the same, maybe worse.' Beast Boy chuckled inwardly at the thought. Though his mind was focused mostly on smell and his own thoughts, leaving sound at a distant third, he couldn't dismiss yet more footsteps crossing by his person. Lifting his head from the ground, Beast Boy looked back only to see a young boy running up the hill... rather frantically. Shrugging his canine shoulders, he ignored the oddity and turned back to the ground, resuming his search. Nose bumping into a bit of orange in the grass, Beast Boy barked happily upon recognition of the Frisbee and quickly resumed human form. Reaching forward, he began to pull at the saucer, only to find it stuck to something. Practically pressing the object into the ground, at the other end of the disc was the toe of someone's black boot. "Uh, hey..." started Beast Boy, tilting his eyes up toward the owner of the foot, "you're standing on my--" Beast Boy cut himself off with a surprised gasp as his sight took in the rest of the figure. The man's getup was mostly pitch black, except for heavy silver bands adorning his wrists and ankles, and a thick belt of the same color at his waist. Behind the figure, though hard to see in the bright light, a long object swayed back and forth... a tail? Spanning his chest was a peculiar gray design, oblong in shape with three evenly-parted, vertical points at its base, the longest in the middle. However, peculiar uniform and tail aside, what caused Beast Boy the most alarm about the... creature... was currently staring down at him in a decidedly unsettling manner. Upper half almost made a silhouette by the sun behind it, the figure's facial features were hard to make out. Stretched across a gray faceplate was a wide and terrifying grin, above which were a pair of eyes, narrowed to thin white slits. It was obviously a mask of some sort, but that fact made it no less frightening to Beast Boy. Merely the look on the monster's face seemed to adequately describe itself as 'blissfully psychotic'. "Um..." started Beast Boy, finally choking back a bit of his initial fear. However, before he could mutter anything else, he found his collar grasped tightly by the creature's... gloved, claw-like, three-fingered hands. - - - - - - "Hm... That's weird," started Cyborg, having joined the others by Raven's tree. He looked down in slight confusion at the time displayed on his arm's computer screen. "Usually doesn't take Beast Boy this long to find something like that," he said, looking to Robin and Starfire. "Perhaps he has located his female fans, and has decided to initiate the small-talking?" queried Starfire, remembering the two girls who had since disappeared. Robin and Cyborg's slightly amused expressions seemed to imply they agreed. Seeming a little annoyed by what Starfire had pointed out, Raven set her book aside and looked to the others with a twitching eyebrow. "If that's the case, then I wouldn't be surprised if he's getting his face shoved into the side of a nice, big tree right about now." - - - - - - "Oof!" coughed Beast Boy as his cheek was slammed harshly against the bark of an oak. Held in place by the creature's hands, he stared back beyond the fingers, feeling worn out. He had put up a good fight, but the tall and lanky creature was surprisingly strong. For the last several minutes, Beast Boy had been fighting back against the mysterious enemy, given no time to contact his friends, while being constantly questioned about the whereabouts of... an alien girl. Now, face pressed firmly against the side of a tree, feeling the soreness of being jabbed, kicked, and whacked in one too many places, he decided to wait as long as he could to regain some energy. Grabbed by the collar once again, Beast Boy was pulled away from the tree and quickly slammed back against it, now face to... face with the monster. "We know it is lying," the creature started in his odd, shrill voice, the grin on his mask remaining still even as he spoke... more evidence that it was simply for purposes of intimidation. Pushing Beast Boy harder against the tree, he began to sniff the air sharply, causing the changeling to cringe. "That wretched scent is unmistakable. This one has surely been in contact with the foul being." For a moment, the masked attacker simply stared at Beast Boy, narrowing his featureless eyes, his frozen smile becoming all the more unnerving. "We will ask it once again. Where is the filthy Troq?" the creature questioned, his high, crackling voice grating on the green Titan's ears. Beast Boy lowered his eyebrows and glared as the question registered in his mind. Troq... He knew what that term meant... and he wouldn't stand for someone insulting his friend like that. Beast Boy huffed and turned his head to the side, coming up with a good plan for escape. "Where's the Troq?" Beast Boy restated the question, still looking away. "Funny, I coulda sworn he was holding me up by the collar just now," he grinned, chuckling appropriately. However, he quickly found himself slammed back against the tree once again. "Twisting Zoka's words. It is clever, this one," spoke the creature in a deceivingly amused tone, revealing his name. Releasing one hand from Beast Boy's collar, Zoka continued to hold the boy up and swung his free arm backward through the air; a scraping metal noise sounded as he did so. Zoka brought his hand back up to Beast Boy's face, brandishing the thin, sharp blade he had extended from his wristband. "Perhaps we shall see how clever it is in the absence of its head..." he threatened, holding the weapon close to Beast Boy's neck. Beast Boy suddenly took a deathly seriously expression and stared Zoka directly in the eyes. "Dude, you are threatening the wrong people," he said, voice shifting to an almost low growl. Zoka's eyes showed signs of confusion as Beast Boy seemed to gain mass, gradually losing his humanoid form. In little time, the masked creature found himself high above the ground, grasping the neck skin of an enormous lizard. Beast Boy, in Tyrannosaurus form, looked down at the pitiful creature still attached to him. Deciding to take his revenge, he let out a deafening roar, causing Zoka to flail wildly like a flag in a hurricane. - - - - - - The four Titans remained in the shade of the tree, taking a break as they waited for Beast Boy's return. Robin and Starfire, sitting back on the grass together, were simply looking up at the leaves as the sun broke through various apertures, engrossed in their own quiet conversation. Raven, still perched on her rock, had leaned back against the tree; eyes closed and book set aside, she appeared to be resting peacefully. Taking a note from the others, Cyborg had reclined back against the grass under the tree; arms behind his head, he watched the thin clouds drift about in the midday sky. At this point, they had decided to let Beast Boy do whatever he wanted... it was a day off, after all. Hearing what he interpreted as a loud car horn, Cyborg quickly sat up and looked around, feeling the ground rumble a little. "What was that?" he asked, looking over his shoulder to the others. Robin and Starfire had already gotten up, both looking alert, though they shrugged to imply they didn't know what caused the sound. Raven cracked one eye open and scanned the area. "It sounded like a roar to me..." she stated, having recognized the tone as one of Beast Boy's ancient lizard forms. Nodding in agreement, Robin decided to take action. "Could be trouble," he said, turning around to look down the hill in the distance. "Let's--" Robin stopped, finding himself staring into two green and jittery eyes, whose pupils were severely dilated. "Big," started Beast Boy, sounding out of breath as he stared eerily at Robin. Jumping over to Starfire, who reacted instinctively by guarding with her arms, the shaken changeling continued his peculiar behavior. "Ugly," he added, quickly moving over to Cyborg, whom he had to climb in order to get face-to-face with. "Smiley-guy," said Beast Boy as the others simply listened and watched in confusion. Speedily moving on to Raven, still in a great deal of panic, Beast Boy took hold of her cloak and pulled her forward. "Trying to KILL me!" he shouted, pointing back down the hill without looking away. Reacting calmly, Raven stared forward through lazy eyelids. Pushing Beast Boy's hand away from her cloak, she dusted herself off and looked to him inquisitively. "What are you talking about--" she started, eyes suddenly widening. "Get down!" she shouted, pulling Beast Boy away from the tree. As Beast Boy and Raven fell to the ground, the Titans witnessed a quick, black blur rush across the area. Several splinters of wood broke away from the tree as a result. As the blur came to a stop, it revealed itself to be a tall, thin figure with a tail, clad in black and silver, a strange looking, round mask covering the entirety of his head. An odd length of gray tubing extended from the back of his mask to an area between his shoulders. The creature's right arm was fully extended; a blade attached to his wristband had created a large gash in the tree. Zoka cocked his head to the left and looked down at Beast Boy and Raven. "The green one has friends... How peculiar," he said, turning to face them and pulling back his bladed arm. Thrusting the blade forward, he found it blocked by a wall of black energy. Raven held her hand up and focused her energy as Zoka continuously struck her shield to no avail. "Most peculiar indeed..." added Zoka. "Big, ugly, and smiley... You weren't kidding," Raven spoke over her shoulder as she examined the creature beyond her shield, standing up fully to parry more attacks. Still feeling sore, Beast Boy made no comment and stood up, clutching one of his arms tightly and staying close behind Raven. "Well, this guy doesn't waste any time," said Cyborg, recovering from his initial surprise. He turned his face to Robin with a semi-serious expression. "Were you gonna say 'Titans go', or is that just implied?" he asked, charging up his sonic cannon. Robin shook his head, still wondering what in the world was going on. "Come on!" he said, rushing forward and waving for the others to follow. Starfire, at the back of the group, hesitated a bit as she looked upon the attacker... something about his form was frighteningly familiar. Shaking away her suspicions, she quickly followed after Robin and Cyborg, who now held their weapons ready. "Hey!" shouted Robin, swiping his staff through the air to get the creature's attention. "You're probably new here, so I'll say this once..." he paused, narrowing his eyes, "we're the last people you'll be picking a fight with today," he said, holding his weapon defensively as the strange face turned to look his way. Paying no attention to Robin, Zoka's eyes widened as he noticed the girl standing behind the two humans. Quickly extending another blade from his left wristband, he turned away from his prior focus and bolted forward. Thinking the attack was coming his way, Robin rushed into the battle and swung his staff. However, to his surprise, the enemy quickly dodged. Knocking Robin aside with a strong shoulder, Zoka simply moved on. "Goin' somewhere?" questioned Cyborg, moving in front of Zoka with his arm aimed forward. Before Cyborg could fire, Zoka stabbed one of his blades into the bottom of the cannon and pushed upward, directing the blast harmlessly into the sky. Tearing his blade away, he delivered a powerful sideways kick to Cyborg's abdomen, sending him to crash against the tree. Starfire stood ready, eyes glowing, both hands imbued with bright green energy. The tall figure dashed her way, blades held back. As Zoka executed a high horizontal slash with his right blade, Starfire ducked and sent a strong punch to his stomach in retaliation. The creature could be heard letting out a pained breath as he tilted forward over Starfire's arm. Using the punch to his advantage, Zoka flipped forward and landed on the ground behind Starfire; wasting no time, he swept his tail across the ground, knocking Starfire over. Kneeling low, Zoka hovered over Starfire and pulled a blade back. Seeing her chance, Starfire quickly threw an arm forward, firing a starbolt at the attacker's chest. Her blast had a strange affect, though... its light and energy seemingly absorbed right into Zoka's uniform. Tightly grasping Starfire's wrist with a claw, Zoka narrowed his eyes menacingly at the frustrated Tamaranean. "Long have we awaited this day. Does it think us so foolish that we would not prepare?" he asked, pulling his free arm back. Gritting her teeth, Starfire growled and tilted backward on her shoulders. Pulling her legs back, she quickly slammed her feet against the creature's chest, launching him away and into the air. Standing up, she watched as Zoka struck the ground in the distance and rolled to a stop, slowly recovering. Breathing hard, she looked furiously at the creature, calming down as she felt a familiar hand grasp her shoulder. "Are you okay?" asked Robin, who had come to Starfire's aid along with the others. Turning to Robin, Starfire nodded... though she was sure her eyes had already told him different. Zoka's strange words were now hanging on her every thought... "He's after Starfire," Beast Boy spoke up, standing at the back of the group, still tightly clutching his right arm. "Kept asking about her... Tried to beat the answers out of me, but I didn't say anything," he explained with a pained grin. "Looks like it didn't matter, though... he found you anyway..." he added regretfully, looking to Starfire who had turned a sympathetic eye his way. Seeing Zoka beginning to stand up, Beast Boy, along with the others, began to rush forward... however, with his injuries impeding him, the changeling only made it a few feet before falling to his knees and cradling his ribs with a groan. Stopping and kneeling down to hold Beast Boy up, Raven looked him over carefully. Bruises were starting to form across his face – and the rest of his body as well, she could only assume... He looked much worse than before. She wouldn't admit it, but she felt rather proud of him for being so noble. "They can handle him for now," said Raven in her usual, calm voice, letting the others go after Zoka. "Just... tell me what's broken, and I'll see what I can do." Pushing his hands against the ground to help himself up, Zoka was about to rush back into the fray, unwilling to let his target escape. However, as soon as his face turned away from the grass, it was met with a powerful strike which sent him tumbling across the ground again and onto a dirt pathway. Quickly regaining his balance, he stood up to find himself surrounded. Robin slowly retracted his fist, looking angrily at the masked creature. Cyborg, no less furiousness in his expression, stood behind Zoka, ready to attack on a moment's notice. Still unsure of the nature of this assassin, Starfire was ready to fight nonetheless, knowing now she had to keep to physical attacks. Looking from opponent to opponent, Zoka let out a loud growl and dashed in Starfire's direction, having only one thing on his mind. Nodding at each other, Robin and Cyborg rushed up behind Zoka and grasped his arms tightly, holding him in place. However, both had to put all their strength into keeping him still as the tall creature thrashed about with an astonishing amount of force, whipping his tail back and forth. Ignoring Robin and Cyborg, Zoka looked straight ahead at Starfire. "It will perish by our hands. And if its friends continue to fight, they will meet the same fate." Tearing his arms away, Zoka elbowed Robin and Cyborg in their stomachs, causing them to tilt forward. Taking advantage of the Titans' momentary weakness, he grasped their heads and forcefully slammed them together, sending both falling to the ground as a result. "Robin, Cyborg!" shouted Starfire, rushing forward. However, she halted as the creature stepped away from her friends and moved in her direction, reptilian tail scraping against the dirt. Retracting one of his blades, Zoka reached down to his belt and removed from it a short, tubular object – which appeared to be some sort of projectile weapon. Fastening it to his free wristband, he aimed it toward Starfire. "As we stated before, we are not foolish," said Zoka mysteriously. Soon after, an explosion of smoke erupted from the weapon and a length of glowing white rope with weights on its ends was propelled toward Starfire. With such little distance between her and the attacker, Starfire couldn't see her way to moving in time. Immediately, the strange rope had wrapped itself tightly around her waist, tying her arms to her sides. Suddenly feeling all her energy disappearing, Starfire's eyes widened as she tilted toward the ground, falling flat against the dirt path. She couldn't move... not only because the rope was constricting her, but because it seemed to be draining the life from her body as well. She struggled, but could only find shallow breaths escaping her mouth as Zoka's footsteps approached. "Four years planning..." started Zoka, slowly closing in on Starfire as he placed the weapon back in his belt and unsheathed his blade once again, "twenty-five light years traveled..." he continued, bending down beside her, "nine planets in this pathetic system searched..." he said, reaching down and pulling her up by the hair to face him, "and we find it here, in the open, mingling with the animals," he finished, staring her in the eyes. Starfire felt her body quaking as she helplessly watched Zoka pull his blade back. "We would have appreciated a more challenging hunt." Swinging his blade downward, Zoka was infuriated to hear it clash against metal. Rushing in between Zoka and Starfire, Robin had blocked the blade with his staff and now held it safely at bay. "Appreciate this," said Robin, glaring upward at the smiling assassin. "Meddlesome primate!" growled Zoka, pressing harder against the staff. Eyes twitching and narrowed, he breathed angrily as he stared down at Robin. The Boy Wonder made no response and simply held his position. Suddenly, as the assassin lessened his push against the staff and looked over his shoulder to see the other Titans recovering, a small chuckle could be heard behind his smiling mask. "Another time, then..." he said. In an instant, Zoka pushed away from Robin, slashing harshly at the staff in the process. Sprinting around Robin, Zoka speedily disappeared into the trees beside the path, kicking up dust with his speed. He could be heard rustling away through the flora until the sounds faded out. Letting out a breath, Robin squinted and felt a sharp pain on his cheek. Reaching a hand up to his face, he ran his fingers across the area and looked at them to see a small amount of blood. Ignoring it, Robin dropped his staff, immediately turning to kneel down beside Starfire, the terrified look in her glassy eyes sending a chill through his body. Finding the weights on the strange rope, Robin began to unravel it and finally tossed it aside. Holding Starfire up in his arms, he watched worriedly as she slowly seemed to regain her energy. Life finally back in her eyes, Starfire looked up at Robin without saying a word. Robin couldn't stand seeing her this way... it scared him more than anything ever had. "Star... are you--" he started, immediately finding her arms draped over his shoulders, holding him tightly. It was not the kind of embrace he had become accustomed to from her. Starfire's body shivered relentlessly as she sobbed into his shoulder without restraint. Robin felt his heart sink as her heavy tears began to tap against him. He wanted only to comfort her, to tell her everything would be all right. Wrapping his arms around her back, Robin returned the embrace, slightly quelling Starfire's trembling. "Don't worry, we'll make sure nothing happens. I promise," he said, glad to feel Starfire's breathing settle. Hearing Robin, Starfire attempted to calm herself in spite of the nightmarish thoughts running through her mind. No matter what was going on, she knew she could trust his words and that was enough comfort for her. "...Thank you," she responded without moving, a small smile appearing on her face. By this time, the others had gathered next to Robin and Starfire, almost glad they had missed the horror leading up to this point... but more than a little guilty that they seemed powerless to prevent it. Cyborg scanned the trees with his robotic eye, making sure the enemy had actually left the area; he sighed with relief, seeing the only life signs were small creatures. Raven held Beast Boy's arm over her shoulder, helping him over to the scene; she had managed to heal a few of his injuries, but there was only so much her powers could do all at once. "Thanks," said Beast Boy, letting go of Raven to look at Robin and Starfire. It was a gloomy moment, to say the least. However, he had seen a smile appear on Starfire's face and so thought it appropriate to lighten the mood a little. "This may not be the best time to say it... but, Cyborg, I think I lost your Frisbee." - - - Act Three: Plan Versus Plan A bright, quarter moon loomed in the night sky over Jump City's bay area. Due to a slight cover of wispy, dark clouds, the heavenly body shone a parted glow upon the calm water. The waves reflected also the bright lights of the city itself, whose many buildings were lit up, streets still bustling with traffic. However, there was one building outside the multitude which was as dark as the night surrounding it. On its island in the bay, Titans Tower stood tall below the moon, all interior lights extinguished. The three panes of the tower's common room windows invited the moonlight in. In the large floor's central sunken area, the arc-like, gray couch faced the windows, casting a heavy shadow where the red carpets from the main doorway and opposing halls met. The tables in the dining area and yellow counter tops in the kitchen cast shadows of their own in the quiet night. All was perfectly silent – which was typical at this time of night, when the Titans usually retreated to their rooms. However, every now and again, a quiet metallic thumping, only noticeable to the most astute of ear, could be heard, interrupting the dead silence. As time passed by, the sound gradually... patiently traveled from the ceiling to the hallways. In the corridors outside the Titans' rooms, the sound continued on. A dark figure slowly shuffled through the air ducts, pulling himself along with his arms in the tight space. In the pitch darkness, the image of a grin on his mask was all but invisible. Every so often, his reptilian tail would strike the metal interior of the ducts, causing a soft thump. It was these moments that Zoka took to slow down and listen carefully to make sure he had remained undetected. He followed a scent he recognized, his intention to carry out his plan in a silent and efficient manner. No need to alert the Tamaranean's friends; they were not targets... they were not even factored in. Coming to a stop over a grate in the ducts, Zoka inhaled sharply through his nose, finding the scent to be a bit stronger in this area. Looking down, he peered through the horizontal blinds in the grate only to see darkness. Reaching up, he tapped at the side of his head and activated his mask's heat sensors, which caused the eye holes on his faceplate to glow red. Though only strong enough to see through the grate, his sensors showed no heat signs, even near the bed in the immaculate room. Grunting under his breath, Zoka looked away from the grate and moved along, feeling the scent become stronger as he progressed. Further down the duct, the smiling assassin came to a halt as he heard the sleeping breaths of a female. The sound became more pronounced as he approached a grate in the duct. Looking down beyond the grate, Zoka took notice of a presence in the room below. Described through his sensors as a bit of red and yellow in an otherwise blue area, he could see his target under the blankets of a large, circular bed. The sound of breathing was clearly coming from that position, and the Tamaranean scent was even stronger. Unmistakable. Deactivating his mask's heat sensors, Zoka focused on the grate. There was a bolt on each of its four corners. Knowing his mission would soon be complete, Zoka carefully removed each of the bolts with his sharp fingers and set them aside in the duct. As quietly as he could, he pushed down at the grate until it came loose, about to fall onto the floor. Realizing his mistake, Zoka reached out fast and caught the grate. Pulling it back into the duct, he set the piece of metal further ahead with the bolts. Slowly, he took hold of the opening in the duct and lowered himself into the room, landing silently on the floor beside the bed. Zoka could see nothing in the dark, the room's drapes shut tight, but the sound and scent were enough to identify his target's position. Moving closer to the bed, he slowly extended a blade from his right wristband. Making no sound, he lifted his arm up high. 'No interruptions,' he thought, quickly slashing his arm downward. The force of his attack shattered the bed into two pieces, after which a warm liquid splashed back up at him. The breathing had come to a stop. However... something didn't seem quite right. "It slices," came a boisterous male voice from the shadows. "It dices," added a younger, higher voice. Suddenly, the room's bright lights switched on all at once, causing Zoka to guard himself as he turned around to face the voices. "But it's none too sharp, now, is it?" said Cyborg, grinning widely as he stood by the door, a hand pressed against the light switch. Eyes widening, Zoka looked at the mechanical human's side of the room to see three others accompanying him, lining the wall to his right. The caped child stared at him through furious masked eyes. The green one, hands behind his back, had an extremely amused expression. And the one in the blue cloak simply stared forward, eyes visible behind the shadow of her hood. Zoka grunted, looking over his shoulder to examine the bed. He growled furiously as his eyes caught sight of it. Sitting between the sections of shattered bed, in a puddle of water, were many pieces of multicolored plastic. Beside the mess was a mechanical device which appeared broken, soaked by the water. Breathing angrily, he turned around to face the Titans, only to find their expressions unchanged. "Y'know... it's amazing what you can do with a voice recording and a bunch of hot water balloons," said Cyborg, taking his hand away from the switch to aim it at Zoka in cannon form. Removing his hands from behind his back, Beast Boy tossed a yellow water balloon up and caught it. "And you wanted me to throw them out," he said, leaning toward Raven with a grin. The empath rolled her eyes in response. Chuckling, Beast Boy pulled his arm back and hurled the balloon at Zoka, where it popped against the creature's face. Zoka could be heard constantly muttering under his mask with indistinct grievances as he glared, unmoving, letting the plastic and water slide down his face. Stepping forward, Robin extended his staff and let a small smirk show on his face. "I'd say 'we were expecting you'..." he started, leaning forward to get a better look at Zoka, "but you've probably figured that out by now." - - - - - - Several lights and monitors illuminated an otherwise dark room with their multicolored glow. The room was a simple, box-like area, with computer panels lining three of its walls, and a strong, reinforced door taking up its fourth. Well hidden and highly protected, the security room was where all of the tower's camera feeds could be viewed across the various monitor screens that lined the forward wall. Sitting at the main computer console's chair, Starfire stared forward at one of the screens, watching warily as a fight spilled out from her room and into the tower halls. As advised by the others, she stayed in place to remain safe. However, the more she saw, the more she felt like leaving to help them. Keeping a close eye on the events unfolding before her, Starfire thought back to the fight in the park. They had nearly been defeated... by a single opponent. How could they hope to stop him now? 'Long have we awaited this day. Does it think us so foolish that we would not prepare?' Zoka's words ran through Starfire's thoughts. 'Four years planning...' she repeated his speech in her mind.Eyes widening, Starfire stood up and turned to face the security room's heavy door. - - - - - - A loud explosion erupted in the hall beyond the main doors in the common room; as a result, its two sliding pieces were sent flying across the floor and crashing into the couch. Cyborg lowered his cannon as he looked out through the newly opened doorway at the clearing smoke beside the couch. The others stood just behind him, watching cautiously as well. As the smoke dissipated, it revealed Zoka, bringing himself to his feet atop one of the dented pieces of metal. He glared off toward the Titans. "Where is it?" Zoka demanded loudly, referring to Starfire. "We must complete our mission. This does not concern foolish, Terran children," he said as the Titans approached him. "Trying to assassinate our Starfire?" questioned Cyborg as he and the others came to a stop at a safe distance. "Yeah, that concerns us a little," he said, charging up his cannon once again. "They do not need to die as well. Had we carried out our mission without interruption--" Zoka stopped to slash at an object suddenly thrown his way. Cut into two pieces, Robin's birdarang detonated in midair, sending Zoka tumbling backward over the couch. Fallen on his stomach, about to stand up, he found himself grasped by the end of his tail. He looked back to see Robin as the culprit. "You're about to get a lot more than interrupted," said Robin with a glare, pulling backward, managing to lift the lightweight Zoka from the ground. Turning in place, he began to swing his enemy around by the tail, while the others simply watched in wide-eyed astonishment. With a growl, Robin finally released Zoka, sending him in the direction of the farthest window pane on the right. Seeing the window coming up, Zoka rotated himself in the air and pointed his feet directly at the glass. In an instant, the masked man shattered the window pane, flying outward through the hole he created. Chuckling as he passed through the window, Zoka reached out his hands and took hold of the vertical separator between the adjacent panes, using it to redirect himself toward the tower. Crashing through the center window, Zoka entered the common room once again, feet first, with a target chosen. Guarding himself from the inward-flying glass, Robin was too preoccupied to guard the incoming attack. As soon as he dropped his cape, he found his face met by Zoka's boots. Robin tumbled back over the couch, slowly recovering as the others came to help. "We will rend this building to the ground if we must," said Zoka, removing an object from his belt as Cyborg stepped forward with his weapon ready. Whipping his arm through the air, Zoka launched a small circular object across the room. Almost like talons, four sharp objects extended from the rim of the object, latching themselves onto the barrel of Cyborg's cannon. "What the--" said Cyborg, stopping as he watched strings of electricity surge about on his arm. Unsure of what would happen, Cyborg quickly stepped aside, deciding to let the others handle the lizard while he focused on removing the foreign object. He knelt down behind the couch where Robin was recovering. Cyborg watched from the corner of his eye as Zoka moved toward Beast Boy – who had gone to defend the hallway threshold by the kitchen. "No way. You're not getting in there!" said Beast Boy, guarding the hall entrance with his arms spread out. Morphing into a gorilla, he took off toward Zoka with a roar. Reaching out, he attempted to grasp his enemy, but found the lizard too quick for his heavy form. Zoka easily dodged, ducking under Beast Boy's arms and moving around to his back. With a high kick to the left, he sent Beast Boy flying toward the kitchen counters, reverting back to human form. Though the boy was out of the way, now resting against the outside of the counter, Zoka continued after him. Massaging his forehead, Beast Boy opened his eyes to see one of Zoka's blades coming down at him from the front. Blocking with his arms, he watched it cut into the counter at his right. Rolling to the left, Beast Boy found himself blocked by the other blade, which Zoka quickly sliced into the counter. The changeling began to morph, deciding to turn into a small animal to escape this predicament. However, before Beast Boy had a chance to change completely, Zoka snaked his tail forward and wrapped it around the boy's neck. "We have unfinished dealings with this one," said Zoka in a creepy tone, bringing his face up close to the choking Beast Boy. Suddenly, though, Zoka released Beast Boy's neck as something more urgent came to his attention. A knife, propelled at high speed from the kitchen... had implanted itself in the front of his mask, avoiding his face by minuscule distance. He looked forward to see the telekinetic one acquiring several new weapons from the various drawers in the kitchen with her powers. "Step away from the imp," said Raven, turning as many pointed objects as she could to face Zoka. Beast Boy's facial expression showed he was both appreciative... and insulted. In a manner quite different from his attitude so far, Zoka's eyes widened. Quickly, he pulled his blades from the counter and leaped back as the entire kitchen's arsenal came flying his way. Dodging all the sharp objects – though being struck by the blunt ones – Zoka took refuge behind one of the tables in the dining area and plucked the kitchen knife from the front of his mask, tossing it aside on the ground. 'They are becoming a greater problem than anticipated...' thought Zoka, scanning the Titans in the room around him. All were now closing in on his location. Reaching to his belt, Zoka removed a spherical metal object from the front compartment and pressed a button on its surface; a red light on the device began to blink. Narrowing his eyes, he stood up to face the Titans, concealing the object from sight. Leaping over the table, he positioned himself near the center of the room. Oddly enough, the Titans all came to a stop, seeming to stare through him at something. Zoka peered over his shoulder to see, in the main doorway, his target standing in plain sight. "Starfire," started Raven, more than a little surprised at this turn of events, "what are you--" "I could not let you fight him alone. He is here for me..." said Starfire, looking down toward Zoka, whose eyes had already begun to dig into her. She didn't allow his stare to affect her, keeping her brave expression steady. "If anything were to happen, I would rather it happen while I am here to help." "But, Star..." Robin trailed off, looking across the room in a distressed manner. "Don't worry about us! You've got to get out of here. We'll handle him." "Yes, we will," said Starfire, starting to move down the steps. "He came here prepared to fight me alone. He was not expecting 'us'." Hearing Starfire's words, the others looked toward Zoka and suddenly saw him in a slightly different light. The assassin had been prepared for a one-on-one battle, but found himself facing a team instead... it explained why he had retreated in the park. He was afraid. "That is why you attempted a stealth attack, is it not?" questioned Starfire. Zoka was already showing signs of distress, looking around himself frantically, his body language saying more than his hidden facial expression ever could. "You knew you could not defeat us as a whole, so you tried to avoid my friends at all costs. Together, we are too strong for you." Starfire looked forward through sure eyes. Growling behind his mask, Zoka turned to fully face Starfire. "A problem we mean to rectify..." he started, displaying the spherical device he held, the sight of which caused Starfire's eyes to widen, "right now!" Spinning around, Zoka hurled the object in Cyborg and Robin's direction. Along its course, the device emitted a quick, continuous beeping sound. Though the device was surely alien in origin... the Titans could easily understand what it was. Both Beast Boy and Raven were too far from the action to do anything, thinking whatever they could try would either be too late... or prematurely destructive. Starfire stood in place, leaning forward, about to fly off toward the object, planning to snatch it and take it to a safe distance outside the tower; however, seeing a recognizable look on Robin's face, she halted, hoping he had come up with a plan. All this took place in less than a second. Watching carefully, Robin focused on the wayward sphere as time seemed to slow down around him. Already halfway across the room, its beeping became more frequent as it approached. Robin swallowed hard, finding himself nearly frozen in place, gripping his staff tightly. Acting on instinct, the Boy Wonder ducked low and rolled forward as the bomb came close enough. Now on the other side of the device, he quickly swung his staff through the air and struck the object, increasing its velocity. Looking surprised as they creaked their necks to face each other, Robin and Cyborg immediately rolled away as the blinking metal sphere made its way out through the broken window. Suddenly, a blinding flash of light scorched the area as the object detonated loudly. Each Titan ducked low, guarding themselves from the explosion and sudden luminosity. As a sound of rushing air in the tower became more prominent, the bright light slowly began to fade away. Vision returning to them, the Titans gave off a collective gasp, each witnessing the result of the explosion. Part of an immense, perfect sphere had been cut away from the tower, completely obliterating the windows... and most everything else on that side of the room, including part of the sofa. Wind from the outside now rushed freely into the tower, a view of the night sky, bay, and the floor below the common room now visible through the vast, gaping wound. Finding themselves standing right at the fringe of the damage, Robin and Cyborg quickly stepped back, both feeling cold sweat on their foreheads. "No..." growled Zoka bitterly, seeing the two had survived. Gaping at the hole as his shock gradually wore off, Cyborg began to clench his teeth and fists tightly. "That's it..." he started, slowly turning around, shoulders tightened. "That's the last... and I mean LAST time anyone..." Cyborg paused for a moment, sending a murderous glare Zoka's way, "ever takes a chunk outta MY TOWER!" he shouted, motioning a hand at the disaster. Cannon freed of any foreign objects, the robotic Titan aimed his arm at Zoka once again. Too frustrated to have paid any attention to what Cyborg had said, Zoka began to turn around. Even if it meant his own demise... he would complete his mission. However, one Titan had already decided to take tactical advantage of the previous explosive distraction. Before he could turn around fully, Zoka was met by the horn of a charging green rhino. Vision flashing white from the impact, Zoka was propelled across the room in a daze toward Cyborg, who immediately took decisive action. Stepping aside, Cyborg faced the opposite wall and held his cannon forward, waiting for Zoka to enter his sights. Robin responded by retreating several steps to avoid the blast – as well as prepare for his part in the chain. As soon as the lizard entered his view, Cyborg fired off a sonic burst. Struck in the back by the blast, Zoka grunted as his direction was shifted in midair; he continued his flight, now heading toward Robin. Narrowing his masked eyes, Robin wasted no time and tossed his staff aside as the reptilian flew his way. He felt like inflicting some damage in a more personal manner. Ducking low, Robin swept his leg vertically through the air to his left, striking Zoka across the face and sending him in an arc toward the kitchen. Seeing her turn had arrived, Raven held up a hand, focusing her energy on the stunned, airborne opponent. She felt no need to delay things by being flashy. As soon as Zoka was engulfed in her dark force, Raven whipped her hand to the left, sending him toward Starfire in an instant. Seeing Zoka coming her way, face-first, Starfire focused energy in the palm of her right hand. Examining him closely, she knew of one point on the enemy that surely wouldn't absorb a starbolt. Eyes glowing, she pulled her arm back, waiting for the right moment to strike. Deciding the critical distance was met, Starfire threw her open palm forward, slamming it directly into Zoka's mask. Just as she had predicted, the mask could not absorb the energy. In a bright green explosion, Zoka was sent backward into the center of the room, where he rolled across the floor, the front of his mask leaving a trail of smoke behind. Zoka released labored breaths as he pushed against the ground with his hands, barely managing to lift himself with his shaky, weakened arms. The front of his mask had gained a clearly visible crack, which stretched diagonally across its surface, passing between the eye holes. "Our... years of planning..." he groaned, eyes squinting as he looked through blurry vision at the children encircling him. "Our training... waiting for this day... preparing for every possible encounter... It should not have ended like this." Finally giving up, Zoka let out a single breath and collapsed on the floor with a thud. "You can't win 'em all," said Cyborg, still holding his cannon forward cautiously, looking down at the defeated creature. Seeing no more movement from the lizard, he sighed in relief and relinquished his aim. Relaxing their fighting stances, the Titans all gathered around the center of the room, where Zoka remained, sprawled out like a swatted insect. All simply looked down at him, their many questions still unanswered. Kneeling down to examine the fallen enemy, Beast Boy's mind dwelt on the mysterious man's features for a moment. "Well... he's kinda skinny for a..." he began, scratching the back of his head, looking toward Starfire inquisitively, "Gordanian?" he questioned. - - - Act Four: Setting Off Zoka took in a sharp breath and forced his eyes open. A blinding white light flooded his vision, causing the lizard to squint. Attempting to move, he found his arms, legs, and tail constricted as he sat forward in a chair. What little he could see revealed to him that his hands were held in place at the wrists against a metal tabletop by two thick braces. He could feel his tail and feet were constricted by similar implements. Even more alarming to him... his weapons were missing; his belt, his wristbands, everything. The only relief he found was in the fact that his mask had remained in place. Looking up from the table, Zoka saw two silhouettes – a large and small one – beyond the intense light from above. They whispered indistinctly, sounding as though they had taken notice of his awakening. The large one stepped forward into the light, followed by the other. Upon sight of the two children, the assassin now knew he had been taken captive... his main mission effectively failed. Cyborg dropped several silvery metal objects onto the table. Zoka's belt and wristbands shimmered under the light in the interrogation room. "Have a nice nap?" questioned Cyborg, leaning forward over the table to look Zoka in the eyes. The assassin made no response. Robin stood to the robotic Titan's left, no clear expression on his face, arms crossed strongly about his chest. For a moment, he glanced over his shoulder to the room's two-way mirror, on the other side of which were Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy. He couldn't see the others with the intense light on his side of the room reflecting off the mirror, but he gave them the signal that Zoka had woken up. Turning back to the table, he decided to let Cyborg do most of the talking, knowing himself to get... somewhat worked up when enemies affected him on a personal level such as this. On the other side of the mirror, in a much darker area, Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy stood side by side in front of the glass, watching intently as Cyborg and Robin proceeded with the interrogation. They were each eager to know more about Zoka's so-called 'mission', Starfire especially. With Cyborg and Robin's combined interrogation tactics... they were sure they would know soon enough. Cyborg noticed Zoka eyeing the objects he had placed on the table. Reaching out, Cyborg patted them with a hand. "Some impressive stuff here," he started, remembering his examination of the belt; not since Robin's equipment had he seen so many things stored away in such a small amount of space. "Mind telling me where a guy like you gets a hold of tech like this? Seems too high-end for you. Heck, I couldn't figure out what half of it was supposed to do." Zoka seemed disturbingly unaffected by his predicament, merely looking up at Cyborg from his seat. "Return them to us and we will show you," he said defiantly, clenching his fists and sitting up as far as he could. "Not in a cooperative mood?" responded Cyborg, taking his hand away from the table and standing up straight. "We've got an expert here who can help us trace this stuff back to its source. So whether you're in a talking mood or not... we'll find out," he finished seriously. This seemed to get Zoka's attention, the lizard-like man turning his head to the left for a moment. Before long, he looked back, switching his attention to Robin. "And what of this one?" he questioned. "Still bitter that we scarred its face?" Robin chuckled once through his nose, keeping a sedated expression. Stepping further into the light, he placed both hands on the table and looked at Zoka. "Believe me... if this had ended up on anyone else, you'd be in far worse condition right now," he threatened, pointing to the small slash mark still on his cheek. Cyborg moved to Zoka's side and leaned forward as the staring contest continued. "Robin here doesn't like it when someone tries to assassinate his girl," he spoke quietly, hoping to intimidate the lizard with his next words. "He's already on the edge. If you push him further, I can't be held responsible for what he does," he warned, standing up and shrugging as he stepped out of the light and rested his back against the wall. "It'd be smart to answer his questions." Robin felt like shaking his head... Cyborg had seen way too many cop movies. Stifling his reaction, he backed away from the table and continued to stare down the alien. "We're going to give you one chance to cooperate..." said Robin, crossing his arms. "Who sent you? And why are you after Starfire?" he questioned. Zoka made no movement, simply staring out through his grinning mask. "...Privileged information," he responded dryly after a moment. Robin let out an exasperated sigh and looked to his right... pausing to think about how he could get the information out of the guy without going too far. He remembered Starfire explaining what she could about Zoka. He was a Gordanian... but one who had been raised outside of the homeworld, trained in space as an assassin. His suit, though Starfire did not recognize its design, appeared to imply that he had developed an intolerance to certain atmospheric pressures and compositions. Though the other Gordanians who had visited Earth were not in need of such devices, this one was. It was a good place to start when looking for valid threats. "Starfire..." called Robin, looking over his shoulder to the mirror. "Does he need the suit to survive?" he asked, waiting as a long silence followed. "No, he does not," Starfire's voice sounded over the speakers. Robin seemed satisfied with the answer, moving away from the table and slowly walking around to Zoka's side. Seeing this, the alien began to struggle, writhing in his chair to no avail. As Robin came to his side, Zoka, panicking a little more, turned to look at Cyborg. "You think I care?" asked Cyborg, chuckling under his breath. "Hate to break it to ya, but there ain't no 'good cop' here, man." Coming to a stop, Robin examined the back of Zoka's suit. A short length of metal tubing extended from the back of the mask and plugged into a port between the shoulders. As Zoka continued to thrash about in his chair, Robin reached out and took hold of the tube. "Wait!" shouted Zoka, scratching his claws against the table to get Robin's attention as he felt the tube being tugged at. Still keeping hold of the tube, Robin glared at Zoka from the side. "Tell us why you came here!" he shouted, threateningly pulling at the lifeline. Glaring angrily, Zoka looked forward at the mirror. "...Several years ago, the Troq was handed over as a peace treaty between our people," he began, speaking as though he knew Starfire was standing just beyond the glass. "But it did not deal well with its place in life, did it? It tried to escape." Generally confused by this information, Raven, who stood at Starfire's right, turned to look at her friend. The Tamaranean's eyes were wide with recognition. She obviously knew just what Zoka was talking about... and was now piecing things together in her mind. Raven turned back to the glass and eyed the alien on the other side with curiosity. The time when she had switched bodies with Starfire suddenly came to mind. Even though she and Starfire had shared much information about their lives with each other... Raven had no knowledge of the things Zoka spoke of. But then... Raven knew she hadn't exactly shared everything either on that day. Apparently, even Starfire had skeletons in her closet. "We could not have that. There would be no peace without a means to maintain it," Zoka continued, still staring off at the mirror. "Our General Trogar followed and captured it in this system... but was defeated, yes. Its people had gone back on their word... Unforgivable. We are its punishment. We are Citadel. And Citadel demands retribution!" he shouted, sitting up as far as he could. "No..." Starfire began to back away from the glass, trembling slightly. Zoka seemed to be staring directly at her. "If not in the end of this one's life, retribution will come in another form. We failed in our mission... this information has reached our system by now. If we cannot destroy it, its entire planet will take its place, its people no longer a threat. That is our judgment," he spoke in a frighteningly serious manner. "It is only a matter of hours now. Vega will be witness to a destruction not seen in a thousand years!" he shouted before entering into low laughter. "Did it think it could hide? Did it think we would simply forget what was done?" Robin cringed at the words which had escaped the creature's mouth. But it didn't take long for his shock to turn into anger. Gripping the tube tightly, he quickly tore it from the back of Zoka's mask, tossing it aside to the ground. As he did this, pressurized air began to pour from the hole, flying out in a thick white fog. Suddenly gasping wildly for breath, Zoka began to make the only major movement he could... slamming his face against the table as he wheezed. "Get used to it," said Robin, getting his face up close to Zoka, who continued to thrash about, creating dents in the table as he continuously threw the front of his mask at it. "You'll be breathing that air for a long time." - - - - - - "Ugh," coughed Zoka, falling flat on the asphalt, arms, legs, and tail restrained tightly by specialized cuffs. Like a fish torn from the water and tossed to the dirt, he weakly gasped for air as he looked around at his current location. The moon loomed above him in the clear night. To his left was a large facility with high stone walls, and a thick metal gate which he currently rested in front of. To his right... the Titans, suspended in the air by the telekinetic one's powers. Zoka had been taken to the high-security prison, which resided near a patch of forest, safely outside the city limits. From within Raven's bubble of dark energy, the Titans each looked down at Zoka as several prison guards scrambled to the gate to apprehend him. He certainly did look weakened now... but they had warned the prison to be extra cautious with him anyway. "Say hi to Cinderblock for us," said Beast Boy, making light of the situation with a serious tone. Zoka used what little strength he had to glare bitterly as the Titans floated away to the west. However, he quickly cringed as he heard the gate beside him slowly sliding open, thick metal grinding against the ground. Weapons being removed from their holsters could be heard as well. Five fully armored guards stepped out into the open... gasping in surprise at the large creature on the ground. One of the officers, presumably the squad leader, stepped forward to examine Zoka closer. The creature's lizard-like features were the subject of his awestruck attention. "When I heard the term 'illegal alien'... this is not what I envisioned." - - - - - - "This is terrible," said Starfire as Raven dropped everyone off on the roof of Titans Tower. "If I am to believe what he has said..." she trailed off, trying to hold back her despair at the thought presented to her. She stepped away from the others and looked to them helplessly. "...What do you mean?" Beast Boy chimed in, stepping forward with a bit of hope in his eyes. "It hasn't happened yet. There's still time, so we can just get in the T-Ship and--" "We appreciate the enthusiasm, but..." started Raven, hanging her head forward a bit, "Tamaran is over twenty-five light years away... it would take more than a few hours to get there." Robin remained silent; for once, he had nothing to say... nothing he could say. Starfire, the one person in the world he always wanted to protect, would lose her home... the most important thing to her. And there was nothing conceivable they could do about it. Robin looked across the rooftop at Starfire... He had never seen her in such a state of sadness. He wanted to comfort her... but he felt like he would only be making things worse. Cyborg examined each of his friends. Everyone was looking perfectly at the ground, their eyes blank and void of any hope. With a small smile forming on his face, he figured this was as good a time as any to tell them. "Guys... don't give up just yet." - - - - - - A single, collective gasp echoed in the immense, open room as the Titans gazed upon the object before them. All eyes were wide, most with astonishment, and a pair with pride. Necks tilted back to take in the full scene, Cyborg's teammates were awe-struck, to say the least. "When did..." started Robin, trailing off as he looked at the practically building-sized object. "She's been my project ever since we went to Tamaran the first time. Sorry for keeping it a secret all this time. I wanted to surprise you guys with it," said Cyborg, grinning as he looked up at his creation. "Ladies and gentlemen... the T-Ship," he said, motioning a hand up at the immense vehicle. The cavernous metal room was located directly under the island's outdoor training course. Until now, the other Titans were completely unaware of its existence. Hugging the four walls was a strip of metal flooring, the railing of which looked out upon the T-Ship and its supporting platform. Above, the ceiling seemed to be split lengthwise into two separate parts. The T-Ship itself was a sight to behold. With a shining blue and silver outer shell, its sleek, aerodynamic form nearly filled the entire room, illuminated by the lights that lined the floor. The vehicle's short, glider-like wings loomed over the outer platform, holding up a pair of large, fighter jet style thrusters at their ends. At its aft was a large, bulbous looking engine... just looking at it, the Titans could only guess the immense amount of speed it could kick out. Windows were located at the front of the ship, where Cyborg would most likely be piloting; the Titans also noticed windows in an area just over the engine. The Titans saw it as reminiscent of a NASA spacecraft... but much... cooler. "Sweet!" said Beast Boy, eyes sparkling with wonderment. Suddenly, his expression faltered as he thought about the vehicle's name. "Wait... T-Ship?" he questioned, leaning over to Cyborg. "Don't we already have one of those?" Cyborg leaned over to Beast Boy in response. "Actually, that was just the T-Sub with a pair of escape rockets strapped to it. It wasn't really designed for space flight, or even anything above the water," he explained, whispering behind his hand so as not to disturb the others. "This will get us to Tamaran in time?" questioned Starfire hopefully. Cyborg nodded happily, chuckling a little. "With time to spare," he replied confidently. "Remember when Starfire told us all about the physics of space travel?" "Yes," came a collective reply: three exasperated voices and a single elated one. "Well, I took what she said, applied it to this ship, and came across a new engine design which can reduce travel time exponentially. We should even have time to pack," he explained proudly. Cyborg looked over to Starfire, seeing she still seemed a little worried. Wanting to be as reassuring as he could, he placed a comforting hand on her shoulder and looked back to the ship with everyone. "Don't worry, Star. We got your back." - - - End Episode One - - - Author's Note: I'm loving this :). I haven't felt this good about a fic since 10 Leisurely Days. Nor have I had one so planned out since then. Forget Me Not was sort of a 'write-as-you-go' fic, which is okay, but I ended up feeling like I could have done a lot more with it. This originally started as a fan comic for my Deviant Art gallery, but I'm glad I decided to do it this way, because I think it could be my biggest fic yet. It's a story I really want to tell, and now I'm convinced that this is the best format for it. I was a little rusty with writing after taking such a lengthy break, which is why it took me so long to get this first episode out. Hehe, I'm sure I'll get back into the swing of things eventually, though XD. Still, this format (writing chapters in acts, episode style) has given me a lot more freedom with the story, allowing me to try a lot of different things. I'm looking forward to the future episodes, whose stories will be able to take advantage of this as well. Also, I should mention that this will be probably be my last Titans fic. I know I spoke of a sequel to TLD, but I think it's better if I left it alone; I don't want to ruin my most successful fic by making a follow-up that doesn't compare to the first. I also don't want to run this fandom into the ground. If I carried on any longer with it, I fear my writing will start to lose its quality. The truth is, I feel like I'm slowly growing apart from writing Teen Titans stuff. I'm no longer the overly enthusiastic, easily inspired kid I used to be when this started. So, anyway... I hope I can bring you something worthwhile as my farewell Titans fic. I may come back to writing fics if my other current obsessions inspire me so (Avatar or Naruto). Next Episode Preview: Starfire arrives on Tamaran with the Titans, but she may be in for the worst welcome home imaginable. A strange message tells of disaster on the horizon, but is there any truth to it? "Episode Two: Home".	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3354655/1/Titans-Forever	<urn:uuid:47d90829-2e05-4539-9923-c0fb66c382e2>	en	0.986572	0.047765
Title: Princess and the Dragon Pairing: Harry/Draco Rating: R Summary: Draco enjoyed the chase and would search London high and low for his Princess. Warnings: Cross-dressing, D/s, slight SM, language. Author's notes: Thanks to my betas KF and megyal and lbewarethesmirk . You are all wonderfully helpful and inspiring! Thanks for the quick turn around and wonderful suggestions. EWE. Written for hpwintersmut . This story has a rough history. It is my very first cross-dressing, D/s kind of work and then my original recipient dropped out and the poor story was floating in the ether, then I was assigned someone new, so I tried to mod it for that person, but that fell through as well. So this story now sits as it is after a few mods. Also note that this is an edited version. Unedited versions fount on my LJ site. Original request: First-time (with each other), cross-dressing, D/s, rimming, some anger and perhaps a bit of hitting. "Hey there, honey; buy ya a drink?" Bright green eyes turned to look over at the American bloke who'd stumbled into the bar. He leaned forward and grinned, showing perfectly straight teeth and a face covered in rough stubble. The man was obviously a tourist: he wore an "I Love London" t-shirt and a pin that stated that one should "Mind the Gap." "Sure," came the quiet voice. The American beamed like he'd unexpectedly won the jackpot. "Hey there," the man called out to the bartender, "another Stella and," the man turned back to his prize, "What're ya having?" he asked. "Whisky sour." "And a whisky sour, please," he called out. He landed sharply on the neighboring stool and brushed his brown hair out of his eyes. "I've been in London for a week, and I just love it here." "Really? How long are you here?" The American grinned with pleasure at the inquiry. "Just another few days. Me and my buddies--we're from California--we just up and decided to visit London. Never been to England before. It's great. Kinda spontaneous too. Dave, his girlfriend just dumped him. I'm Stephen, by the way." He offered his hand and they shook. "Nice name." "I think so," Lily said warmly. Stephen continued to talk about himself as the drinks slowly disappeared. His traveling hands covered Lily's each time he finished a story as if assuring himself she was really there. Lily commented once or twice, but had few words to say and seemed content to just listen to the American talk about his home and his job. Stephen's constant petting and touches were gently brushed aside, but he didn't seem to take the hint. Finally, after Stephen finished his second drink—Lily was still sipping on that first whisky sour—another man approached him, and with an odd look at Lily, leaned close and whispered something in Stephen's ear. "What!" he burst out. Lily sighed. Here it was. The man's eyes ran up and down Lily's body then rested on her throat. Her Adam's apple. No, his Adam's apple. "You're a man?" he asked, sounding more than a little disappointed. Lily shrugged; it wasn't like Stephen was his type either. "Does it matter?" "Yeah! Of course! I thought I was chatting up some gorgeous Brit, but I was hitting on a dude!" Lily flinched and then rose to leave. The bartender caught Lily's eye and the silent communication offered enough assurance that he sat again. "Dude, let's just go," said the new arrival, tugging on his friend's arm. "Yeah, definitely. And Lily, or whatever your name is, that's really crappy. Hanging out here, leading guys on. Fucked up." Stephen stood up and walked away. Lily, who wasn't really Lily, looked into the mirrored backing of the bar and caught his own eyes floating amongst the back sides of countless liquor bottles; green and full of a hollow loneliness. He'd gotten quite good at the feminine disguise, wrapped up in soft silks and an even softer nature, but his Adam's apple was left noticeable for those who knew what to look for. Not that he would have gone home with that guy anyway. Getting his arse kicked once was a valuable lesson, so he became very sure of his bloke before he ever made a move. Needless to say, he'd never been a one-night stand kind of cross-dresser, and to his own frustration he had been alone for a very long time. He examined his eyes in the mirror. His eyes. He had left his eyes the same: bright green and full of something pure from his mother—a sense of what's right and a willingness to follow through with hard choices. His hair was still black, a symbol of his brave father. But that scar, only a shadow now that Voldemort was gone, he buried beneath a layer of foundation, burying that reminder of everything that had broken within him the day he saved the world. Harry walked down the street towards the Ministry of Magic, dodging in between other early morning commuters. The air had a harsh chill this close to the New Year. In one gloved hand he carried a double tall latte while theLondon Times was clutched in the other. He found it very important to keep apprised of the Muggle goings-on. His mind wandered back to The Moon and Mars, something he tried very hard not to do when at work. "Well," he mumbled to himself, "at least I'm not at work yet." It had rained the night before and the air smelt clean, if you discounted the smoking tailpipes from the traffic jam to his right. The sky was a hundred different shades of gray; a thick layer of clouds covered the skyline as lower cotton puffs snagged onto some of the taller buildings. It was a typical London winter. He found he couldn't take his mind off of The Moon and Mars, though it broke his usual strict 'separation of night life and normal life' rule. The American bloke had been nice, if a talker. And he'd been attractive, though obviously very conservative and totally oblivious. He grunted disdainfully. Who was he kidding; the guy was a complete idiot. Harry could do better. Plus, Harry didn't want to deal with someone that was going to be here today and disappear tomorrow. The real bent bristle in his broom was that he knew he wasn't going to find the love of his life—however cheesy that sounded—at The Moon and Mars. He longed for someone who understood him and accepted his odd… requirements. But that was something he didn't like to dwell upon. He was who he was, nothing would change that. The seedy bar haunted the end of London and apparently only drunk tourists frequented it. Harry often questioned why he continued to go there. There were probably more… open, friendly places he could go where the guys weren't going to freak out once he dropped skirt and his extra equipment was revealed. He stepped across a puddle in the broken pavement and bumped into someone, muttering a quick apology. Maybe he should find somewhere else to go… Harry lifted his contemplative gaze from the ground and saw Hermione waving, crossing the street to meet him. "Hey Hermione!" he said, waving in return. He waited at the corner and then they continued to walk down the pavement together. "We missed you at Percy's. You should have seen Luna. She brought a few manoko. They were climbing all over her, but she didn't have a care about it." Hermione chuckled, shaking her head. "Manoko?" Harry asked, half-listening, half-watching the gum riddled ground pass beneath his feet. A flock of pigeons flew by as they passed a park, cooing at the hopes of a handful of seed. They looked soggy and unhappy at the weather. "Yes, don't you remember, Harry? The grant she got to study them for Hogwarts?" A moment of silence passed between the two. "Harry, are you even listening to me?" She jabbed him in the ribs with her elbow. He oofed in response. "Of course. Sorry. I just don't remember." He didn't really remember much about his social life lately. Since he had so little of it, he thought the detail should have been etched into his memory. If Harry were honest with himself he would admit that he just didn't care. "She'd discovered them in southern Italy during one of her 'walk-abouts.' They're pretty cute little things. Scaly, like a lizard, but round and floppy like a kitten. I bet they will be the new pet craze, assuming they'd be safe as pets and Luna wouldn't be affronted at the notion." Harry grunted in shock. "I'm surprised you aren't affronted at the notion," Harry said. "Why would I be?" she asked, her tone a little edgy. "House-elves, goblins, centaurs…" "Those are sentient beings, Harry, not some lower life form." Though Harry wasn't looking at her, he was certain she'd just rolled her eyes at him. "You would think after all your work redesigning the Ministry that you would at least have a grasp between the Beast Division and the Being Division." "Yeah, yeah. I know. Sorry, my mind's just somewhere else," he rushed to derail a Hermione blow-up. "So, where were you?" she asked. "Huh?" he asked, caught off guard. "Where were you Saturday, when we were all at Percy's? You said you would be there." She leveled her gaze on him and he could feel her noticing and cataloging his every reaction. Harry sighed. Even after all these years, Hermione really hadn't changed much. "Did you have a date?" "Whaat?" Harry asked, drawing the word out as he searched for something quick to say. He turned a scandalized look on Hermione; she couldn't know about his extracurricular activities. Nobody could know. He had been so careful. Someone walking close behind bumped into him as he lost his stride. "Sorry," the woman apologized as she brushed past him. "'tsokay," he murmured as he and Hermione continued their walk. "Well, it has been awhile, Harry. You can't still be pining over Ginny, can you?" she asked, her tone suggesting he still wore his first year set of snitch pajamas to bed at night. She seemed… disappointed. "What? No! Of course not. We went our ways on good terms, you know that." He lifted his hands to shield off the next volley of questions. "So, that isn't why you weren't at Percy's?" she asked again. "No, I mean… No. I just didn't feel like it. I was tired from work and I just wanted to relax." He flinched at the defeated tone of his words and almost flinched again as he noticed Hermione registering his first flinch. She didn't need any more fodder for her ever needling interrogation. "Harry," she stopped in the middle of the rush hour crowd--the flow effortlessly parted around her like the river around a stone--and touched his arm. Someone bumped into him again. Harry groaned internally. He'd failed in steering her away from her concerned mode. "Maybe you're working too hard. It's been five years. You've reformed the Ministry. It's done. There isn't much else you can do; now, don't you think it's time to step back and see if it can truly run on its own?" "You don't think it can?" he asked in alarm. He'd put the last five years of his life into establishing an honest and stable form of government for the wizarding world. He had lost his childhood to abuse, his adolescence to Voldemort, and then the prime of his life to the ungrateful masses surrounding him. Sacrifice played a major supporting role in his life; he didn't want that sacrifice to be for naught. "That isn't what I was saying, Harry. I think it can, and I think it will. There will always be obstacles, but we've set up a good system. But seriously, maybe it's time for a vacation. Get away. Have some fun." Her eyes were full of love and Harry swallowed against a lump in his throat. Fun. What an odd concept, alien in its carefreeness. "I can't. I've got this meeting with the French ambassador, and the Committee for Werewolf Rights is still being stubborn; I couldn't leave it right now." There was so much to do. Harry couldn't just leave it all. That would be irresponsible. "Okay, fine," she huffed. "Just think about it. Eventually, you will explode if you don't give up this work, work, work lifestyle. I don't want to see you burn out like Neville did," she said and turned to once again join the flow. "I won't, Hermione." They'd reached the Ministry's south entrance and walked through the pet shop to the hidden room lined with a battery of Floos. Screeches and caws filled the air as they passed the aviary. Harry stopped, fishing around in his pocket for some cheese, and fed his favorite mina bird. It nipped at his finger when it'd eaten Harry's entire offering. "Vicious bugger," he mumbled to the bird affectionately. Hermione fed a small parrot a bit of fruit she'd had wrapped up in cellophane. "Are you available for lunch?" she asked, sounding resigned. "Can't, I've got to finish the third quarter report on the Department of Mysteries redevelopment." He turned from the bird and stepped up to his Floo. Hermione huffed. "Fine. Take care, Harry." "Yeah, okay. Bye," he said to her back as she Flooed to her office. With his own sigh, he grabbed some Powder and called out his own address: "Assistant Minister's Office." They had wanted him to be the Minister of Magic, but he had refused the position. Three times. After Harry had used his power to oust Scrimgeour--angering many people--Kingsley Shacklebolt was offered the position along with Harry. Harry eagerly stepped aside, soothing some officials' ire who were under the impression that Harry pushed for Scrimgeour's dismissal so that he could attain the position himself. Nobody seemed to accept that Harry never wanted to be Minster and never would. Nothing could get done from the Minister's seat. Harry sat in the real cradle of power; where he could affect the government and get rid of the rampant potential for corruption that had infested the Ministry during Voldemort's short reign of power; that had existed since Fudge and probably even earlier, if he were to be honest with himself. Here, as the Assistant, he could develop the government without having the people's eyes on him. His influence infiltrated every office, touched every law. From rooting out existing corruption to limiting red tape, he knew he'd formed a better governing body. He was the shadow lord of the Ministry. However, it was constant and it was draining: day after day of meetings, always putting on his public face, always thinking ten years ahead. The deals, the late night planning sessions, the heavy burden that it might not work; it seemed to suck out his light, his humor, and his optimism. Sometimes, Harry thought, he should have just been a Quidditch star. It drained him even as it invigorated his existence. Eventually, he knew, it would pull him apart, just like Hermione had diagnosed. The meeting had lasted for four hours. And then he had another emergency session with the Magical Games section. At nine that evening he finally walked through his front door, exhausted. Hermione always insisted that he needed a vacation, but a few weeks on the Riviera still meant returning to life most regular. It wasn't that he wasn't happy… it just seemed that something was lacking in his life. He had such control at work that Harry wished he could give that up, that he had someone to take care of him for a change. Sometimes he just wanted to relinquish himself to the hands of another master. That desire drove him to visit The Moon and Mars even later that night, secretly hoping that tonight he would find someone, anyone, who wouldn't mind that he's really a man and take him home and touch him and whisk away his burdens. If only for one night. The bar was adorned in mistletoe and garland in celebration of the winter season and while everyone seemed jolly at the new decorations, Harry looked on in sadness. The holidays always made him feel lonelier. Scolding himself for such thoughts, he took his seat and caught his reflection in the mirrored wall behind the bar. Bacardi, Blavod, Glendarroch, and a pair of green eyes. He watched the crowd's reflection behind him as the patrons came and went, drinking his whisky and wishing he weren't alone. As the night tumbled past its zenith, Harry paid his bill with a resigned air and gathered his things to leave the bar, annoyed with himself. He didn't mind the time it took him to get presentable--the make-up, the coifed hair, the charms-- he was just frustrated with another solitary night. Frustrated with his love life. Frustrated with life in general. He gave the crowd, thinning now at this early hour, one last glance and his heart nearly stopped as the last person he ever expected to see at The Moon and Mars walked through the door. It'd taken him a good forty-five minutes to shake off his tail and Draco ducked into the first bar he came across. Really, his father had become far too watchful of him since he was released from Azkaban and placed on house arrest, and Draco didn't even want to dwell on the hints and suggestions that he should take a wife and settle down. He knew the family patiently waited for him to find a wife to bear the next heir, but he wasn't about to just settle for anyone. Plus, he would have to find a wife who didn't mind him straying on a perpetual basis. Women just weren't his slice of cake. The bar certainly catered to a lower class than he was used to, but at this moment Draco didn't care. Even with the stale scent of cigarette smoke and beer infiltrating the air, it was still the air of freedom and he breathed deep. The crowd certainly registered low on the scale of human dignity, but even through the mass of tourists and journeymen, he still had hopes of finding someone to help him relieve a little stress for the night. He shook off the damp from his wool coat and hung it on a rack, then turned to survey his choices. Unfortunately, after a thirty-second scan of the people seated at the tables, Draco began to wonder if he wouldn't be better off with his "bodyguards"—as his father liked to call them—until his eyes stopped on a beautiful woman sitting at the bar. Not only was the woman beautiful, and usually he didn't bother with women, but his attuned senses picked up magic: she was also a witch. But unlike any other witch he'd ever sensed. As he studied her from the entry of the bar--her dark skirt, slim legs, long black hair--she grabbed her purse and twisted on the stool to leave. She looked up towards the exit and caught his eye. With a look of unmistakable recognition, she dropped back down on the stool in shock. He didn't know how this woman knew him and he couldn't for the life of him place her. Maybe his name and face preceded him, as it often did. He was damned unforgettable. Smiling as he descended the steps into the bar, he approached her and said: "Hello there, Princess." "Umm, hello," she said with a soft voice. Almost too soft, and as Draco watched her swallow with what appeared to be nervousness, he noticed it. The Adam's apple, and then he looked at her arms, the breadth of her shoulders. This wasn't a woman, but a man in drag. Draco couldn't believe his luck and blessed The Moon and Mars. The woman's… no, theman's hair was black as night and his eyes seemed to glow like a cat's, green and almost phosphorescent. Such beauty. Draco would win him. "Would you please share a drink with me?" Draco asked, turning on his allure. He rarely bothered trying anymore, but something about this man just drew him in. Maybe it was the situation, being out on the run, trying to live up his youth before he'd be tied down by the balls. Maybe it was the magical flux that wafted off of him, something Draco has only recently learned to sense. "I was actually just leaving," his Princess said to him, clutching his handbag with delicate hands. Draco wondered why he glamoured so much of his appearance to be feminine but still left that Adam's apple, like he wished to announce to the world that he was male. Well… maybe he was only announcing it to those who knew where to look. Draco smiled even brighter. "Hello, I'm Draco. And you are?" he asked ignoring the man's attempt to leave, determined to find out more about this person, as if he were some mystery totally devised for Draco's own entertainment. "Lily," and he reached out to shake Draco's hand. "Come here often?" he asked, realizing it sounded lame even as the words emerged. Lily laughed, rolling his eyes. "Oh, come now. I'm sure you can come up with something better than that." "You. Me. My apartment. A night you won't forget." As Draco delivered his proposition, he leaned close enough that their noses nearly touched. Lily smelled soft and fruity, but Draco also caught the scent of something underlying that cried out masculinity. Lily jerked back in shock. "Wha…?" "I know you're a man," Draco whispered. "I like that. What do you say?" "But…" Lily seemed to lose his train of thought as he examined Draco. Those piercingly eyes drilled into him and Draco suddenly felt uncomfortable. Did he know this man? But then the gaze softened and those lips smiled and Lily nodded at him. "Okay." "Yeah?" Draco asked. "Yeah. Shall we?" he asked. As Draco offered his arm, Lily stood and took it, and then they walked out of the building. "Shall we Apparate?" Draco asked after they'd left The Moon and Mars. The smaller frame of the man next to him stiffened again. "It appears," he said in those soft and sultry tones, "that I have no secrets from you… Draco." Draco chuckled at Lily's words, though noted the odd way Lily pronounced his name, like he was almost … shy of it. "Don't worry, Princess. I'll let you keep the rest of your mystery about you," he said as he nuzzled Lily's neck. Lily blinked, then nodded and suddenly they swirled away to appear in Draco's manor. With alarming alacrity, Lily left his arms and seemed adamant about avoiding Draco's gaze. Then Lily began to wander through the parlor. Draco watched as he looked around, wondering what thoughts were going through his mind. The more and more he watched him study the manor's decorations—looking at portraits, examining antiques, watching the flicker of candle flames, reviewing book titles—something nudged at Draco telling him that this person was familiar. But try as he might, he couldn't untangle what it was about Lily. While he promised Lily he would let him keep his mystery, he secretly vowed to himself that he would figure this man out. "This is quite the home you have here, Draco." Lily finally turned his back on the marble Floo to face Draco, arms hanging loosely at his sides. Waiting. "Thank you," he said. "It's my ancestral home. Could I get you something to drink?" He began walking towards the bar. "No, thank you," Lily said. "Oh, well…" Draco usually used alcohol to relax himself and his partner. Going into this sober would be an entirely new experience. He redirected himself from the bar to the man standing there. The man dressed in three-inch heals with ruby red lips. Just looking at those lips stirred something within him. "Hmm, can I kiss you then?" He stood directly before his Princess, running a finger up and down his arm. Lily laughed, a pink flush spreading across his cheeks. "Yes, you may." And he did. Their lips met with all the tentative concern of two innocents, light and gentle. Then Draco wrapped his hands around the man's waist and pulled him close, pressing their bodies against each other, feeling the shaking anticipation in Lily's frame. The pressure of Lily's lips against his own sparked a fire in his belly, tingling its way down to his toes. He opened his eyes, for one quick glance at this beautiful person in his arms, and saw those eyes flutter, as if the tremor affected his every part. Draco enticed Lily's tongue to play, to tango with his own and with delight he saw that there was no fight for dominance, no struggle for who was going to lead this encounter. Lily was all his. He pulled Lily even closer to him, pressing his groin to Lily's hip and felt an answering erection firm against his own thigh. Tearing his lips away, Draco leaned forward to taste Lily's smooth cheek, dropping kisses down his jaw, along his throat. Merlin, Lily tasted divine. "What do you like, Lily?" Draco asked, his words peppered between dainty pecks along that unmarred expanse of skin. Tiny goose bumps sprouted along his route of passage and he retraced ever inch of skin with his tongue. "Everything," he said breathily, "anything… just…" Before the words could escape Lily's lips, Draco swept in and kissed him again. Everything. Anything. The kiss demanded and Lily gave and Draco's nerves sparked with pure want. Deft fingers trailed down Lily's shirt, swiftly plucking buttons and finally revealing skin. Lily's breasts were modest, but they were there, soft and generally in the way. "I have one request," Lily said, one shoulder bare as the shirt slipped off of his frame. Draco nodded in encouragement. He was offered everything and anything; he certainly could answer one request. "Please keep the lights off, I don't want you to see me… what I really look like." Demurely, Lily looked away from Draco's face, trailing his eyes down Draco's front. Long lashes framed those brilliant eyes. Again, Draco felt a surge of familiarity. He couldn't help but wonder if Lily had some terrible scarring or other disfigurement and that cooled his libido to think that he stood on the precipice of sex with an ugly person. But as he focused on the man in his arms, he felt that more important than appearance was that something between them. He felt drawn to this unknown man, to the mystery, to his magic. He couldn't name it or even fully describe it, but there was something here, and Draco was determined to uncover what this was all about. "As you wish, Lily," Draco said, planting a kiss on his forehead. Lily flinched. Draco wondered at the reaction and tucked it away for further study; small things told long tales if you were willing to listen. But now other things were far more central to his mental processes; he pushed off Lily's shirt, letting it fall to the ground and wrapped his arms around him, unsnapped the bra and let that too drop to the floor. He leaned back to look at the shorter, compact body, still holding on with one arm. Draco chuckled and ran his fingers over the curves and planes of Lily's body. This was a man, he reminded himself. "Do you want to keep a woman's form all evening?" he asked, hoping that wasn't the case. Draco spread his hand out on Lily's belly, which felt firm yet soft and curvy as no man's could be. The candlelight seemed to mute everything, erase all harsh features. His fingers were pale and thin against Lily's darker skin and he knew that this man would go topless in the sun and Draco felt sure that he did so with pride and an arrogance that the Lily persona would never possess. Who he was Draco swore he would discover. "Would you prefer I wasn't?" Lily asked, sounding unsure, a little apprehensive. "I prefer fucking men," he ground out through his lust, dragging his fingers into the soft flesh, leaving red lines in their wake. He didn't want breasts and a pussy, he wanted a firm cock and a tight arse and a willing lover. "Remember your promise…" The words were more a question, more a tentative plea. "Of course, now drop it. Be who you are." The words were harsh and edged with command and even as Lily tensed, eyes wide with a little fear, Draco knew he would comply. Draco traced the edge of his jaw line--so feminine in this guise--with his finger, drew the nail of his pinky along those full lips. Sometimes a simple touch can reassure the most skittish of prey. Lily pressed his hands on Draco's chest and gently pushed him away. Softly, Lily said, "Nox," and the candles puffed out, one by one, filling the air with their musky smoke. Blind, Draco's heart beat desperately in excitement. "Lily?" he asked the blackness. "I'm here," said the deeper voice, as the definitely male body stepped up to him. He was taller than he was as Lily, though still shorter than Draco, and he was fit and defined, just like Draco had hoped. "How shall I fuck you?" Draco asked, surprised at the hitch in his voice. Lily released a groan, rich and so sexy that Draco's cock grew painfully full, making his jeans tight and pinching. That eager noise was the best offer Draco had in years and raw hunger raced straight to his cock. "To your knees," he demanded. A nervous swallow echoed through the oddly quiet room and then Draco heard his Princess kneel to the floor. He reached down and grabbed Lily's head, forcing his face into Draco's groin. Another soft gasp urged him on. "Suck me," he ordered. Questing fingers reached up and undid his pants, popping the button, slowly pulling down the zip. Draco's knees jerked when strong hands, a man's hands, pulled him out, aching and ready. It hurt it was so hard. Draco released his clenched fingers, lightly laying his hand on the back of Lily's head as his Princess leaned forward to dance his tongue along his length and then slowly swallowed him whole. Lily was eager and skilled and Draco didn't think he would last long, so after endless pleasure, he desperately tugged him off. "Stop. Stop," he begged, panting to catch his breath. The suction stopped and Draco slipped from Lily's soft lips. At the speed of thought, Draco shucked his jeans and stared down into the darkness where he could see a vague shape. "On your hands and knees," and again Lily raced to answer Draco's demand. He stared at the shape, butt tilted into the air, head down on the ground with mid-length hair fanned around him like a dark halo; his mouth watered at the sight. He sank to the floor next to the wanton man and ran his hand through Lily's hair, then trailed his fingers along his spine, dancing across each vertebra. He could feel scars crossing the soft skin and wondered at Lily's past. Then Draco's fingers ran into the waistband of Lily's skirt and he bunched it up around his waist. Lily wasn't wearing a stitch under his skirt. Draco chuckled and licked at his skin. He squatted behind his Princess and leaned over his back, pinning him to the floor. Nuzzling his neck, he sank his teeth in, not enough to break the skin, but enough to bruise and show the world that Lily was his and nobody else better lay to claim what he owned. Lily groaned at the bite, and pressed up into him. Draco ran his hand up Lily's side, feeling the muscles flex and tense, and then wove his fingers through that beautiful hair; he couldn't get enough of that hair. He gripped and pulled. Lily released a licentious groan, the kind that drove away things like thought and restraint. "Oh Merlin. Draco, please, make me yours, please." The incoherent stream of words raced from his lips. "You're mine," Draco panted, and he pressed into the body below him, his voice cracking as he tried to memorize and analyze everything he felt, the touches, the heat, the utter welcome and acceptance by this total stranger. "Lily," he groaned, pulling tight on those thick tresses, and as he thrust again everything became mindless and terrible and so utterly overwhelming. After timeless, pulsing moments, he collapsed, trapping that sexy man below him. Slowly, as the daze lifted, he nuzzled and kissed and licked his way over Lily's back, who flinched when Draco kissed an already marked spot. He felt no guilt, only a sense of self-pride. "Shall we retire to the bedroom," Draco asked, his voice husky and sated, but promising more for the very near future. "Yeah, a bed would be preferable to the floor," Lily said, chuckling. Draco was pleased that Lily didn't sound shagged out, but his voice was definitely laced with satiation. Draco stood and drew Lily to his feet, and as they walked to his room, the lights snuffing out before them. Harry looked at Draco, lying there, asleep and totally unguarded. Examining those features, he saw something that eased the tension he'd been suppressing inside. There was a softness there and Harry had to admit to himself that things had moved on, this was not the past and "Lily" was no enemy to Draco Malfoy. He about cried as he gathered his things to leave. He found his skirt over in a corner and somehow his other clothing had migrated to a nearby table, neatly folded. Every time he crossed the room he caught sight of Draco, contentedly sleeping. This was something Harry wanted and knew he could never have. Draco wanted Lily, not Harry and Harry couldn't be what Draco wanted without his veil of Lily. With a jumble of his things in his arms—he'd have to transfigure them into something that would suit his male body—Harry stood in the doorway of the bedroom, watching the sleeping man. He could love him, he knew this: he could love and cherish him and submit to him in every way. Just the thought, that glimmer of a future warmed Harry, but then that warmth was dashed as he turned and fled the Manor. Draco, by choice, was not an optimist. He was a realist and though he often hated to admit it, he learned quite thoroughly that some battles, some challenges, he would just never succeed at. Even more so, he learned sometimes it was best if one didn't succeed. Fortunately, he also forgot some of these lessons when deliriously happy, which was his current state of affair. Draco wasn't the kind of man to sit by in heartache. He lay sprawled across his grand bed; one arm seeking out the warm spot that he knew would be empty. This knowledge came not only from a sense of expectation—Lily did seem a skittish thing at times—but also some innate ability to sense his absence, absence of self and absence of that magical spark that Draco had so easily become familiar, and comfortable with. But the lack of warm body next to him did not perturb him, or send him into a melancholy. In fact he welcomed the challenge and knew he would find his Princess. No, while this would have set any other suitor back, Draco saw it as a welcome and expected sign. He enjoyed the chase. Through the window sunbeams brightened his room and Draco lay there and stared at the dust motes hovering in the air, dancing in the light. Weightless. His arm remained in that empty spot, grown cold by Lily's absence. That night, rather desperate, he returned to The Moon and Mars. After five glasses of wine he had to admit to himself that Lily would not return that day. "Hey, barkeep," he called to the bartender. The man walked over, one towel tossed over his shoulder and nodded at him. A pencil was tucked behind his left ear and he reached for the bottle of zinfandel. "Another glass?" he asked, ready to pour. "No, but I have a question for you," Draco said, sliding a large bill across the bar to the man. The man's eyes opened in surprise and appreciation. "Whatsit?" he asked. "That woman I met here last night—dark hair, green eyes, couldn't miss her—how often does she come in?" The bartender took a step back and shrugged, eyes easily leaving the rolled up bill on the counter. "Sorry, buddy, can't help you." He walked away leaving Draco and his money behind. Though Draco knew he should be annoyed, he was actually pleased that Lily had people looking out for him. He'd just have to win over his guardian's trust. "Fine," he called out to the man's back. "I get it. I don't give up easily. I'll just keep coming by… Everyday!" The bartender continued talking to another customer. "'Cause she's worth it." A satisfied smirk danced upon Draco's lips as the bartender turned towards him and watched him walk out. And he kept that promise and returned every evening to The Moon and Mars until nine days later he met his Princess once more. "You sure you wanna be here today, Lily?" Samuel asked, as he began mixing Harry's usual whisky sour. "Why do you ask?" Harry peered at the bartender. He'd been coming here long enough he'd developed a friendly rapport with the bartender. He knew that Samuel recognized he was a man, but he still held up the mirage and Harry appreciated that. "A bloke's been coming 'round, every night, looking for you. That blond fella you left with last week." He didn't judge; Harry knew how valuable friends were who didn't judge. "What? Really?" Harry asked, shocked. He didn't think Draco would hunt him down like this. Every night? "Yeah, usually shows up around 10 p.m. You got about forty-five minutes of peace if you wanna avoid him." He wiped off the bar surface before Harry and set the drink down on a coaster for a local ale. "Enjoy," he said and then he turned away to help another customer demanding a rum and coke. Harry'd been trolling other establishments on the outskirts of London but hadn't been as comfortable as he was at The Moon and Mars, and Samuel was part of that. He'd even gone to cross-dressing clubs, but they were too aggressive and Harry didn't want control from someone he didn't trust. Thus the conundrum with Draco Malfoy. He knew Draco. Strangely, he felt comfortable with his old school rival. Harry had no worries about letting Draco take over, and in that game Draco seemed to be quite sure of himself. Harry snorted. This was Draco Malfoy he was thinking about, of course he was sure of himself. While musing over his current circumstances, a man sat next to Harry at the bar. "Hi, is this seat taken?" he asked, and then abruptly sat down with a shit-eating grin, like he thought he was cute with his rudeness. "Actually, I'm meeting someone," Harry said, turning his body away from the newcomer. "Oh, don't be that way, sweetheart. Don't snuff a bloke before ya get to know him," he said, right into Harry's ear. Harry swiveled around on the barstool and was face to face with bad breath and a set of leering eyes. "Hi," he said again, and the he leaned forward for a kiss. Shocked, Harry reached out to slap the bastard, but his hand was caught and held. "Now, now, none of that," he said as Harry tried to pull away. "I don't think the lady appreciates your handling her that way," came the calm, droll words from behind Harry. Harry twisted his head around to see Draco standing there, hands relaxed at his sides, posture perfect, sneer and haughty demeanor right in place. Instantly, Harry recognized that Draco has his wand positioned up his sleeve and that Draco would free him from this vexing letch. Relief flooded throughout Harry. "I was here first, buddy. Go find your own trollop." He began running his hand up Harry's thigh. "Trollop!" Harry said, tone shrill even to his own ears. "Unhand me, now." He yanked his arm again and the bloke finally let him go. Scrambling from the stool, Harry darted behind Draco, more than willing to let the "men" deal with this. "I suggest you leave, before the police are brought in to take out the unwanted trash of this dubious establishment," Draco said, his voice full of command and Harry found himself inching towards him. Almost on their own accord, his hands rested on Draco's shoulders and Harry relaxed his head against that sturdy back. "Whatever, idiots," the man sneered and walked away. Draco spun around and wrapped his arm around Harry. "You okay?" he said, burying his face in Harry's hair, nuzzling him in public. "Yeah. Yeah, I am. Thank you." Harry leaned into Draco, gripping him in relief. He hated guys like that. A shiver shook his body and Draco squeezed him. "Shall we go to my place?" Draco asked, his voice thick and the tone of it sent tingles along Harry's skin. He just nodded against Draco's chest and then followed him out of the bar, hanging onto his arm. They Apparated away when it was safe and immediately fell to kissing and petting and divesting of clothing. The lights went out and Harry dropped his disguise, marveling at the way Draco worshipped his body, treating him like the Princess Draco called him over and over. "My Princess, my beautiful Princess. Merlin, you're marvelous. Don't ever leave me again." As Draco entered him, nipping him the entire time and keeping a tight hold on his hair--that drove Harry crazy--the two men called out to each other and the gods and promised forever in a moment's breath. Afterwards as the night grew quiet and the two men lay in each other's arms, warm and protected, Harry tried to forget his other life out there and snuggled into that warm embrace until they both fell asleep. And as before, before morning dawned, Harry slipped out, heart breaking, leaving Draco cold in the morning's first light. After that second night with Lily, Draco admitted to himself that he could settle for no one else. His Princess had affected him in ways that seemed only hypothetical, if not silly, just a few days ago. He couldn't define exactly what it was, but his life seemed hollower, definitely less satisfying, without Lily around. Though they had shared only two nights and a handful of words, he couldn't help seeing something, like a bright flower or a beautiful painting, and wish he could tell his lover about it. His lover… Were they lovers after only two nights? Draco wasn't fool enough to lie to himself; he knew that he would never be satisfied with another. So, he began to put together Lily's profile and tried to find out who he might be. He was a wizard who liked to dress like a woman and play the submissive role in bed. He probably held a high position in whatever company he belonged to. Draco had never actually seen him use much magic, but the man was powerful; he could sense it every time they were together. And he knew Draco; he'd recognized him when they first met. Maybe they'd even gone to school together; they seemed about the same age, though it was hard to tell with the glamour. Lily's body didn't feel old, anyway. Above all else, Lily seemed familiar to him. Something in the voice, or maybe the way he carried himself. It was like trying to remember a word and it was not only on the tip of your tongue, but the back of your brain and if you thought about it directly, it would dissolve into the ether. You had to distract it, make it think you were looking for something else, then bring your mind back to it and catch it before it fluttered away. He was certain he would recognize Lily if they ever met in person, positive that connection would flare up like dragon flame if he ever met Lily's true self face to face. So Draco made it his goal to begin haunting all of the local wizarding establishments, to attend all of the parties and presentations. He still continued to meet with Lily: find him at The Moon and Mars. They would go home and fuck and God, Draco didn't know if he could handle another morning alone, but he kept coming back and kept taking Lily to his bed and kept begging him not to leave, though they both knew he would. And they would talk. Not, Draco noticed, about anything personal enough to allow Draco to find out who Lily was, but they would talk about the world and the war and things that made them happy or caused them endless frustration. They began to know each other on these serendipitous meetings. However, every morning without Lily left Draco more and more desperate. More and more cold. Hermione strode into his office and smirked. "What?" Harry demanded, immediately turning red, though he wasn't quite sure why. She planted her butt on the edge of his desk. "You've been seeing someone," she stated. "How would you know?" Harry asked, more than a little annoyed. Last thing he needed was Hermione nosing about. She'd figured out he was gay—that had been a fun conversation… but he didn't think she would understand the whole cross-dressing thing… or the Draco Malfoy thing. Or the fact that Draco Malfoy wasn't aware he was shagging Harry into the carpet. Casually, he lifted his hand to the back of his neck and brushed against the bruise he'd hidden away behind magic. Harry flinched, he'd just broken rule #1--thinking about his alter identity at work. Crap, he was slipping. "Ha! You are seeing someone. So, tell me all about it," she demanded, sounding pleased. "Who is she… or he?" she said in that nosy tone. As if he would tell her. "None of your business, and no, I'm not seeing anyone." He dropped his gaze and stared at the report on his desk. The lines blurred together. Damn it, he could smack himself in the head. He might as well wear a sandwich board saying "Hi, I'm In Love." "Well, you don't have to tell me if you don't want to, Harry." She reached out and patted his shoulder. Harry shook it off and glared. With a smirk she moved on. "Anyway, we have a ribbon cutting for the new Severus Snape Clinic and Research Labs. You're going, aren't you?" Since she decided to drop her interrogation, Harry relaxed. "Yeah, yeah. Let me grab my robes. Just… I'm not seeing anyone and I don't want to talk about my sad and lonely life, okay?" he whined. "Sure, whatever. Good luck with that," she said with a wink. The two friends left the Ministry for the newly established Severus Snape Clinic and Research Labs, specializing in curing and supporting those with curses such as lycanthropy and vampirism. The Clinic's establishment proved to be one of Harry's more trying achievements, due to the community's prejudice against both Severus Snape and cursed partial humans. Because of that, it was also one of his more proud accomplishments. The air was crisp in the winter's evening, and Harry and Hermione were bundled up as they marched through the wet streets. He wore a Weasley wool scarf and hat as well as his outer cloak, trying for a good impression of a toddler overly dressed by an over protective mother. They reached the door and Harry held it open for Hermione and then followed her in. A large crowd was milling about as they filed into the hall. Ministry events were always well attended in these peaceful years. Even if the people didn't care about the Clinic, it was an opportunity to see what the other witches and wizards were up to. It became a chance to see and be seen. "It's you," Harry heard from his right and his blood froze. He recognized that voice. Deny it. He would deny everything. "Is it you?" Part of Harry longed to acknowledge those words, turn to the man who spoke them and offer himself up, but that strong, in-control part that faced the world scoffed. Slowly, Harry turned to face Draco Malfoy. His heart broke as he plastered on an indifferent expression. "Malfoy," Harry said with a slight nod. "Are you talking to me?" Draco looked dumbstruck; his usual quick sneer not even making an appearance as he stared at Harry like he'd been betrayed. "What? You're not…" "Hello, Malfoy," Hermione said, butting in like the prying friend that she was. Harry loved her even as he cursed her. "Are you here for the dedication?" she asked. Draco tore his eyes away from examining Harry's every feature and then stared at Hermione with a lost look. Finally he seemed to recognize her and smiled his politician smile. It was all so fake, nothing like the Draco Harry had gotten to know. He had to get out of there. "Why yes. I was excited to hear that Professor Snape wouldn't go unnoticed in history." He turned his gaze back to Harry, who continued to stare in return. Hermione looked from one man to the other. "What's going on?" she asked. "Move!" Harry thought to himself. If he didn't move he wouldn't be able to break this spell Draco seemed to have cast upon him. "Nothing," he told Hermione, nodded once at Draco and turned to walk away. "Potter! Don't leave. I need to talk to you. I know it's you. Please!" he pleaded, but Harry disappeared into the crowd. Lily was Harry Potter. Holy Fuck. He'd been sleeping with Harry bloody Potter. His heart thudded in his chest, banging against his sternum as if trying to break loose. How had he not figured that out? As Draco watched Harry run from him, a confused Hermione trailing behind, Draco remembered things like his hair, the jerk whenever he touched his forehead, his magic. Those eyes. Harry Potter, Assistant Minister, the man who practically rebuilt the Ministry of Magic, was a closet submissive cross-dresser. And Draco was certain he was in love with him. Draco tried to make sense of the twisted humor of the universe. He'd obviously been a very evil man in a past life. It was pure art how Harry had transformed himself into Lily. Not only with spells, but with personality and mannerisms. The voice. Draco was completely flummoxed. His heart continued to race and he ran his damp palms together. Lily was Harry. Lily was Harry. Did this change things? Did he want to maintain this weird relationship of masks and lies? Was Harry Potter worth it? Lily was worth it, Draco knew that in his very core. And what were a few masks and lies to a Slytherin; really, he thrived on subreption. Draco entered the dedication hall decked in holiday splendor, mindlessly grabbed a mug of mulled wine and stalked Harry from afar. The Assistant Minister was mingling, talking to all of the important people in attendance. They all gathered to shake his hand. It was obvious that Harry knew Draco was watching him. Even if Draco wasn't certain from thatfeeling he got when he saw Harry, Harry's downright avoidance and guilt was a good enough indication that he was Lily. Harry stood before the huge crowd and delivered his speech like a master, so confident and sure, unlike the shy Lily. The crowd cheered him on and he waved a bit before he descended the stage steps and disappeared into the masses, letting Kingsley have his turn to speak. Draco ran to where he last saw Harry, excusing himself as he bumped and jostled the merry supporters of the Clinic. Unfortunately, when he arrived at the stairs, there was no Harry around. He turned in place, searching. "Malfoy." Draco jumped as he heard his name and whirled around to see Hermione. "Granger," he said. "What's going on between you and Harry?" she asked. The nosy know-it-all still needed to know it all. "Why," he found himself asking, "Did he say something?" "Well, no… but he was certainly acting oddly from the moment you called out to him. You seemed shocked to see him as well. What's going on?" She crossed her arms and adopted that determined air that had annoyed Draco to no end back at Hogwarts. "I don't see how it is any of your business," he said in reaction to her query. She peered at him and Draco was certain she wasn't only reading his thoughts but also his soul. "Well, I'm sure if you did have any business with the Assistant Minister, you could find him in his office. After hours his secretary is gone and he always forgets to ward his door." Draco's eyes grew wide, staring at her as she spoke the words so nonchalantly. "Of course, I will be up soon myself to talk to him about the ceremony. In about a half-hour. Have a nice day, Malfoy," she said and walked back towards the crowd, her sensible heels clicking on the floor. Holy shite. Hermione Granger just gave Draco the keys to the kingdom and all he had to do was turn the knob. Maybe she wasn't so bad after all. With focused determination he darted back through the crowd to the exit and Apparated to the Ministry's offices. The halls were empty but the thin carpeting helped dampen his foot falls. It didn't take him very long to find the Assistant's office and Granger had been right; there was no secretary and the door stood ajar. Quietly, walking in slow, exaggerated movements, Draco crept up to the door and peeked in. There he saw Harry leaning forward on his desk. His elbows propped up his arms; his hands cradled his head. Fingers massaged his skull through his mop of a hairstyle and he was slowly shaking his head. This was Lily. The man he loved. He swallowed hard and then reaching out a finger, he poked at the door and it slowly swung open. Harry's head shot up and his wand was in his hand before Draco had a chance to say hello. "Hello," he said tentatively and took a step in the office. "What the hell are you doing here, Malfoy," Harry said with a disdain that did not reflect in his eyes. His eyes told a completely different story of sorrow and loss. "Harry, can we talk?" Clicking the door closed behind him, Draco walked into the room, halting before Harry's desk. Two stacks of papers sat on the surface as well as a jar of ink and tin of quills. It was all very neat. Draco could see the back of one silver framed photo propped up, but couldn't see who was in it. He wondered to himself if it was Harry's dead parents, or a reminisce of the Golden Trio. He knew so little about Harry. "Talk? About what? We've nothing to talk about. Leave." Cold, hard words. "I don't want to leave. I miss you. I want you." Harry's eyes grew wide, reflecting a myriad of emotions. The wand tip dipped a little. "Whether you're Lily or Harry, I want you," Draco said softly. "Don't call me that!" Harry screamed; spit flying from his lips as he jumped to his feet, his wand as sturdy as ever in his fury. "You bastard. Think you can just come into my ordered life and fuck everything up, take over? Well, I don't need you. I don't need anyone. Don't you think if I wanted you, I would have kept you?" With two long strides Harry was on the other side of the desk, yelling in Draco's face. They were chest to chest and Draco realized that this body was the body he dreamed of at night, this voice was the one that moaned out his name. "Harry," Draco said softly, letting his love support the word. Cautiously, he reached out a hand. "You don't own me! You mean nothing!" Harry pushed Draco hard, sending the taller man across the room. Racing after him, Harry grabbed the front of Draco's shirt, his face inches away, anger and an aching sadness roiling in his green eyes. These were Lily's eyes; there could be no others that vibrant and alive. Gripping the collar of Draco's shirt, Harry slammed him against the wall. Draco grunted at the impact and clutched at Harry's strong arms, trying to pull them off. Rough portions of brick wall dug into his back and head and he growled under his breath. "Fuck, Potter. Why are you doing this? It's me. You like me." Draco was certain there was a connection here, was certain that Harry wanted Draco as much as Draco wanted him. "Not like this, Malfoy. I'm not that person. Don't you get it?" Harry yelled, and then he released one hand from Draco's clothing and brought the fist right smack into Draco's jaw. "What the hell!" Draco screeched as Harry hit him again. "I'm not that person!" Harry continued to yell, pummeling Draco, his athletic frame adding momentum to his barrage of punches. "I'm not!" Draco brought up one hand to cover his face, then wrapped his leg around Harry's and tugged, causing Harry to fall hard to the floor, dragging Draco down with him as Harry continued to clutch at his collar. "Potter, what the fuck…" he said, grabbing for Harry, but then his words were cut short by a sharp knee to his groin. "Getoffme!" Harry cried, struggling under Draco's larger frame and his grip on Harry's arms. As the stars faded away, Draco realized he'd had enough of this shite. He released his grip on Harry's arms and aimed for his hair instead. Once he got a handful he pulled tight and whispered in a commanding way, authoritative and sure: "Stop fighting me, Harry." And Harry did. He went limp underneath Draco, his eyes glistening as Draco pulled on his hair. Draco leaned forward and breathed him in, taking in the male pheromones, the cologne, the fight and arousal. Burying his nose in Harry's ear he nuzzled and licked and bit down on the soft portion of his neck. Harry whimpered. "Draco, don't do this," he begged. Draco was sure Harry was as hard as he was, aching and leaking and just wanting to fuck like they had before. To love like they had before. Draco pulled harder on Harry's hair causing him to whimper again. Draco's cock jumped. He climbed off of Harry, sitting back on his heals to examine the man sprawled on the floor. He wiped at his lip, shocked at the blood that came away on the back of his hand. "Get up. On your knees, Harry," he ordered, and Harry rose to his knees, head hanging forward, shoulders slouched in defeat. Draco's heart grew tight at this surrender. This isn't what he wanted. He didn't want Harry defeated, he wanted him willing and totally his. "Nox," Draco said, casting the room in darkness. Reaching out he touched Harry; carding his fingers through his thick hair, caressing his cheek. Finally, he wrapped his arms around the other man and drew him close. A tremble rippled through Harry's body, but Draco held tight until all of that stress slipped away. A clock ticked the minutes away; the only other sound was the quick, shallow breaths from Harry that eventually slowed from their frantic pace. "Draco," Harry sighed. "Lily?" Draco questioned… were there really two people here? "Harry. Please, just call me Harry," Harry said and brushed his cheek against Draco's, tilting back his head to expose his neck and chest and offer himself up to Draco. "Harry, my Princess," Draco called him, and then leaned in to kiss away the pain. Draco stood at the entrance to The Moon and Mars and watched the beautiful man with black hair wrapped like a present in a long skirt and silk blouse. To everyone else, he was a woman, but Draco knew the truth; had known for some time. He loved watching him as he sat and sipped at his drink, leaving red lipstick on the rim. Sometimes he would glance up at Draco through long lashes, his bright green eyes stroking him as they roamed over his body. His breath hitched, he couldn't stand it any longer. He descended the steps from the entrance of the bar and walked over to him. "Hey Princess," he said. "Buy you a drink?" The bartender rolled his eyes at Draco and moved the bottles as he begin mixing a drink. "Of course," his Princess said with a smile. Finally, Draco leaned down and kissed him and that ache of separation drifted away. "How was work, Lily?" he asked. Lily shrugged, "Same old, same old. I think I might be ready to retire. Maybe take a little vacation." Draco smiled, he'd been waiting for this. "Need any company?" he asked Lily stood and wrapped his arms around Draco's waist and leaned against him. Draco buried his nose in that black hair and took comfort in the scent. Lily felt right in his arms, as a woman or a man, they just fit. "Of course," he said. "I need somebody to carry my bags." He chuckled and Draco squeezed him tight. "Anything for you, my Princess, anything for you."	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4026036/1/Princess-and-the-Dragon	<urn:uuid:998bb335-6dd8-4bae-bc8e-fe693eb49f90>	en	0.991713	0.144239
Skip navigation. The Critic's Resource on AntiEvolution Line Numbered Transcripts Index - P600-633 1 Q (Continuing) this." Was he correct in his 2 assertion that you have a direct interest in creation 3 science being shown to be incorrect? 4 A It has not been a very major interest of mine. 5 Q Is it a direct interest of yours, as Doctor 6 Patterson describes it? 7 A Could you define what "direct interest" means? 8 Q As opposed to an indirect interest? 9 A I don't want to be facetious, but it seems to me 10 major and minor interests are much more descriptive. It 11 is a very minor interest. 12 Q I have here a note, a copy of a note that you sent 13 to a gentleman at the law firm Skadden and Arps, where you 14 say in the third paragraph, "This is a case of great 15 importance and I stand willing to help in any way." Does 16 that indicate a minor interest in your life regarding 17 creation science? 18 A It indicates a major interest with respect to this 19 case. 20 Q Is your theory that— Let me start over. Do you 21 know how life formed on the surface of the earth? 22 A I have a theory of how life formed on the surface 23 of the earth. 24 Q Have you been able to take that theory and create 25 life in the laboratory? 1 A No. 2 Q Let me repeat my question. Do you know how life 3 evolved on the surface of the earth? 4 THE COURT: He just answered that. 5 MR. CHILDS: I think he said he had a theory. 6 THE COURT: I think that is the answer. I think he 7 has a theory. He doesn't know for a fact. 8 MR. CHILDS: I think there has been a blurring in 9 the distinction between a theory and a fact in this 10 lawsuit, and that is the point I am attempting to make, 11 your Honor. 12 THE COURT: I don't know how it's blurred, but it 13 doesn't seem to me like that answer blurred it. 14 MR. CHILDS: I will move on, your Honor. 15 MR. CHILDS: (Continuing) 16 Q Is it your position— Let me start over again. 17 Have you attempted to apply the theory of thermodynamics 18 to post-life evolution? 19 A No. 20 Q In your opinion, is the case to be made for 21 post-life evolution less clear thermodynamically? 22 A Yes. 23 Q As I understand your concept of earth and sun, is 24 that thermodynamically in relation to the sun and earth 25 relation is in a state of unbalanced equilibrium? 1 A That's a fair statement. 2 Q And that when we use the phrase "an open system", 3 that can be translated into a non-equilibrium state? 4 A An open system is necessarily a non-equilibrium 5 state. A non-equilibrium system is not necessarily open. 6 Q And it's your position that the relationship of the 7 earth and the sun, is that it is a non-equilibrium state? 8 A The surface of the earth is in a non-equilibrium 9 state, yes. 10 Q What is your position as to whether or not the solar 11 system, the planets around our sun, is an 12 equilibrium or non-equilibrium state? 13 A The solar system is in a non-equilibrium state. 14 Q And what about the universe? 15 A That is a question in astrophysics that goes beyond 16 my area of expertise. That has to do with whether the 17 universe is closed or open. 18 Q Are there legitimate reputable scientist who 19 believe the universe is a closed system? 20 A That goes beyond my area of expertise. 21 Q I am not asking you to testify within your area of 22 expertise. I am asking you if you know of your own 23 personal knowledge whether there are reputable scientists 24 in the field who postulate that the universe is a closed 25 system. 1 A I am not really equipped to evaluate astro- 2 physicists with respect to their competence. 3 Q Is there controversy in that field in that area? 4 A I believe there are astrophysicists who hold the 5 view that the universe is open, and there are astro- 6 physicists who hold the view that it is a closed universe, 7 yes. 8 Q Of the astrophysicists who hold the view the 9 universe is the closed system, do you know whether or not 10 they are creation scientists? 11 A I do not. 12 Q As I understood your direct testimony, there would 13 be a transmittal of either energy or matter between the 14 earth and the sun? 15 A That is correct. 16 Q Can you tell me what matter is transmitted between 17 the earth and the sun? 18 A There is some small flux of particulate matter from 19 the sun. It's really quite negligible compared to the 20 flow of energy in sunlight. 21 Q Is it possible to calculate the amount of energy 22 that the earth receives from the sun? 23 A Yes. One can do a quite accurate calculation of 24 that. 25 Q Is it possible to accurately figure the amount of 1 Q (Continuing) radiation that the earth gives off? 2 A With somewhat less accuracy, but it can be 3 calculated. 4 Q With what degree of accuracy can, what you referred 5 to last night as infrared radiation, be calculated? 6 A Again, that would be generally an area that comes 7 from the field of atmospheric physics, which I am also not 8 an expert in, but my guess is that the flux of energy from 9 the earth can be calculated to within a couple of percents. 10 Q I believe in your direct testimony you said that 11 the concept of creation was not in scientific literature. 12 Did I hear your testimony correctly? 13 A I believe it was that the phrase "creation science" 14 does not occur in the scientific literature. 15 Q Could it possibly have been that sudden creation is 16 not in the scientific literature? 17 A That certainly is possible. 18 Q In your article, "Biology of Cosmological Science", 19 there is a paragraph that talks about creation. I'd like 20 you to read that paragraph yourself and tell me in what 21 sense you were using it? 22 A I believe the sense you have in mind is that this 23 view has two rather profound consequences. First, that the 24 universe has an origin, or as some would rather term it, a 25 creation, meaning that the universe has an origin as 1 A (Continuing) scientists would state it or a 2 creation as others, namely, theologians, would state it. 3 Q You weren't referring to scientists? 4 A No. That is not an article from scientific 5 literature. That is an article of a broader philosophical 6 nature. 7 Q It is the only one I could understand, Doctor 8 Morowitz. 9 MR. CHILDS: Your Honor, could I have a few minutes? 10 THE COURT: Yes. We will take ten minutes. 11 Right (Thereupon, Court was in 12 Right recess from 2:30 p.m. 13 Right until 2:40 p.m.) 14 MR. CHILDS: (Continuing) 15 Q Doctor Morowitz, I want to return to the statements 16 last night about what public school teachers teach. 17 That's on page 56, if you want to refer back to that. 18 My question was, "Should the public school science 19 teachers teach what is accepted in the scientific 20 community?" 21 What is your feeling about that? 22 A I believe that that constitutes their subject 23 matter. 24 Q Do you think that high school or public school 25 science teachers should teach what is accepted in the 1 Q (Continuing) scientific community? 2 A I think the subject matter of science is defined by 3 what is accepted in the scientific community, yes. 4 Q I'm going to pass a book to you called The World of 5 Biology, published, copyrighted in 1974 by McGraw-Hill— 6 MR. CHILDS: May I approach the witness, your Honor? 7 THE COURT: Yes, sir. By the way, you all needn't 8 ask my permission to do that. 9 MR. CHILDS: Thank you, your Honor. 10 Q Would you please read that yourself? 11 A "Education, you know, means broadening, advancing, 12 and if you limit a teacher to only one side of anything, 13 the whole country will eventually have one thought, be one 14 individual. I believe in teaching every aspect of every 15 problem or theory." 16 Q Does the line directly above that quote indicate 17 the source of that quote? 18 A Yes, it does. 19 Q Who is the source of that quote? 20 A John Thomas Scopes. 21 Q Who is John Thomas Scopes? 22 A Of the famous Scopes monkey trial. 23 Q Would you please read that one more time into the 24 record? 25 A "Education, you know, means broadening, advancing, 607. Page is missing. 1 A It means there is a difference of opinion about 2 matters within the scientific community. 3 Q And the mere fact that somebody had articles 4 refused for publication would not indicate on its face or 5 by itself that they were an incompetent scientist? 6 A That's true. 7 Q One thing that I thought I heard during your direct 8 testimony was that the evolution of life itself is not 9 properly considered within the area of evolution? 10 A Within the area of the theory of evolution. 11 Q Okay. Do you find it personally offensive that 12 chemical evolution would be treated in the same context as 13 biological evolution? 14 A I don't find it offensive, I just don't feel that 15 they are of necessity lumped together because of different 16 methods by which we studied them. 17 Q And that was in reference to Act 590, was it not? 18 A Right. 19 Q Did I understand your testimony correctly, that you 20 thought it inappropriate that chemical evolution, or what 21 would commonly be called chemical evolution, be included 22 within the definition of evolution science in Act 590? 23 A I said that was not the usual usage. 24 Q Is it not customary in textbooks in the public 25 schools for the origins of life to be considered in the 1 Q (Continuing) same textbooks as biological 2 evolution? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And did I also understand during your direct 5 testimony that a criticism that you have of Act 590 is 6 that it does not teach all origins of life? 7 A No. I was criticizing the dual model point of view 8 which arises in the creation science literature. And Act 9 590 seems to follow through that dual model point of view, 10 indicating that there are only two models. 11 Q Did I understand you to say that Act 590 in some 12 way prohibits the teaching of an additional theory in the 13 public schools? 14 A I said it presents a two-model, a dual model point 15 of view. 16 Q Okay. In your reading of Act 590, did you see any 17 indication in itself which said this theory of panspermia 18 couldn't be called? 19 A No, I did not say that. 20 Q Would you very briefly tell Judge Overton what the 21 panspermia theory is? 22 A That is the theory that life on earth was 23 transported here from some other distant planet, galaxy, 24 or some other astral object. 25 Q Is that view held by reputable scientists within 1 Q (Continuing) what you consider to be the academic 2 community, the scientific community? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q Who is someone that we might have already heard 5 about that holds that view? 6 A The most recent advocate of that book, I would 7 gather, from having read a review of a recent book of his, 8 is Frances Crick. 9 Q What about Sir Fred Hoyle? 10 A Again, I have not personally read Hoyle's work on 11 this, but I am told he accepts the point of view that the 12 earth passed through some rather prebiotic or biogenetic 13 material in space and was seeded from that source. 14 Q Is Sir Fred Hoyle a reputable scientist? 15 A He's a well known astrophysicist. 16 Q Well, is he reputable? 17 A That, again, you're going to be asking me to 18 evaluate people in astrophysics. I'm in no position to do 19 that. 20 Q Well, before when you were telling about the 21 scientific community, I thought you were talking about a 22 broad mainstream of science. 23 A Yes. But the evaluations of people in astrophysics 24 is done by people in astrophysics. 25 Q Well, is he published in reputable journals? 1 A Yes. 2 Q Are his articles subject to peer review? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Do his publications meet the criteria that are 5 ordinarily assigned to those who you would consider 6 reputable? 7 A Yes. I'm not in any way trying to attack Fred 8 Hoyle. I'm simply stating that evaluating people in 9 astrophysics in not my field. 10 Q Okay. 11 MR. CHILDS: I have nothing further, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Any redirect? 13 MR. NOVIK: No redirect. 14 THE COURT: May Doctor Morowitz be excused? 15 MR. CHILDS: Yes, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: You may be excused. Thank you, sir. 17 Thereupon, 19 having been previously sworn, was examined and testified 20 as follows: 24 Q Would you agree that a theory is a structure of an 25 idea that explains and interprets the facts? 1 A Yes, I think that's a statement from my article in 2 Discover magazine. 3 Q So that would be your own personal definition of a 4 theory? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Are you a member of the Society for the Study of 7 Evolution? 8 A Yes, I am. 9 Q How long have you been a member of that 10 organization? 11 A I think since I was in graduate school. I'm not 12 sure. Probably about 1965. 13 Q Are you a member of the Education Committee of that 14 organization? 15 A Yes, I am. 16 Q And that was appointed by Doctor Ayala, or you were 17 requested to serve by him? 18 A Yes, I was requested to serve, and I'm not sure of 19 the chairman. 20 Q The chairman that Doctor Ayala appointed; is that 21 correct? 22 A Yes. Doctor Ayala sent the letter. 23 Q And one of the charges of that committee, in 24 essence, is to try to meet creation science and oppose it; 25 is it not? 1 A Yes. 2 Q Have you also been active in other efforts, or at least 3 involved in other efforts to oppose the teaching of 4 creation science? 5 A Mostly in my personal writings and studies, though 6 there was a brief committee, a committee of brief life set 7 up by the American Society of Naturalists, which is 8 another organization of professional evolutionists., I was 9 president pro tem through the death of the president and, 10 therefore, it fell my lot to appoint that committee. 11 Q And you are motivated to oppose creation science in 12 your professional concern as a scientist, is that correct, 13 Doctor Gould? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Do you have any political motivation in opposition 16 creation science? 17 A As Aristotle said, man is a political animal. I think 18 everything one does is partly in the context of one's 19 larger views. 20 Q Are you aware that one of plaintiffs' other 21 witnesses, Doctor Ruse, has termed you a Marxist biologist 22 whose theory does not qualify as, quote, science, close 23 quote? 24 A I've heard rumors to the effect about the first 25 statement. I don't know if the second one is juxtaposed 1 A (Continuing) or not. It doesn't sound like 2 something Michael would say, but then I wasn't here when 3 he said it. 4 Q Have you ever written an article for Science for 5 the People about creationism? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And what is Science for the People? 8 A Science for the People is a magazine published in 9 Boston by scientists concerned with social issues, with 10 views to the left of center. 11 Q Their political views are to the left of center? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Did you not say in that article that creationism is 14 part of a program of the evangelical right in America, and 15 this movement considered peripheral a decade ago has 16 become central in Reaganland? 17 A Yes, I think that's correct. A somewhat 18 abbreviated assessment of what's happening in this nation 19 today. 20 Q And did you not also state in this article and at 21 least one other that the Arkansas law requires equal time 22 for creation science in science classrooms? 23 A We discussed that in the deposition, Mr. Williams, 24 and I think I agreed at that time that the law says 25 balanced treatment and that perhaps I was incorrect in 1 A (Continuing) calling it equal time. Although I 2 don't really know what balanced treatment means. But 3 perhaps I did misstate that. And I think I also added I 4 have been wrong many times before. 5 Q And you relate creation science, do you not, to be 6 a link with anti-ERA, anti-abortion, and militant 7 anti-Communism? 8 A Yes, I think that it's programmed for various 9 evangelical groups that are part of the creation science 10 movement who support it. There are aspects of their 11 political program that include those. 12 I don't, by any means, think that's the entire story, 13 nor is it in any sense the only reasons for my opposition 14 to creation science. Indeed, the primary motivation in my 15 opposition, which by far predates ever hearing the name of 16 Jerry Falwell and others, is the lack of scientific nature 17 for it with respect to my profession, which is 18 evolutionary biologist. 19 Q Could you identify— Well, let me have this 20 marked, if I might, as Defendants' Exhibit Two. 21 Can you identify the article I'm showing you? 22 A This is the one. 23 Q Which one is that? 24 A The one from Science for the People. 25 MR. WILLIAMS: Your Honor, we'd like to have this 1 MR. WILLIAMS: (Continuing) submitted as Defendants' 2 Exhibit Two. 3 THE COURT: It will be received. 4 Q You have called or termed evolution to be a fact, 5 have you not? 6 A I have. It is also a theory. 7 Q But in your writing at the conclusion, that 8 evolution is a fact, the evidence that you rely on is 9 largely inference; is it not? 10 A I said in the Discovery article in which I made 11 that claim that there were three primary ways whereby 12 scientists are confident that evolution is a fact. Two of 13 them were direct, and only one indirect. I do think the 14 indirect category has the most persuasive evidence. 15 First, the direct evidence is that small scale evolution 16 as we've observed for over a hundred years. Secondly, the 17 direct evidence, that fossils, when, despite the 18 imperfections of the record, we have transitional forms. 19 And third, the very large class of indirect evidence which 20 encompasses such subjects as biogeography, vestigal 21 organs, homologies, embryologies, et cetera. 22 Q And in talking about the evolution that we have 23 observed, as you termed it, evolution in action, in the 24 last one hundred years, how much evolution have we 25 observed in the last one hundred years? 1 A About as much as one could reasonably hope to 2 observe in such a short space of time. 3 Q And in your deposition did you not tell me that was 4 literally nothing? 5 A I certainly didn't. Literally nothing? I don't 6 quite understand the context. I mean, it doesn't produce 7 new orders of animals. But you wouldn't expect that. 8 It's not nothing; it's the amount of steady change. 9 Do we have a corrected copy of the deposition? 10 Q I have never received a correct copy. 11 A Given my breakneck speed of talking, to which the 12 court reporter has so correctly objected, many things in 13 the original deposition do not come across correctly. 14 MR. ENNIS: Your Honor, the only copy of Doctor 15 Gould's deposition that I have in my possession is a copy 16 of it that has not yet been corrected by the witness. 17 I believe that the only copy that was corrected by the 18 witness was delivered directly to the Attorney General's 19 office. 20 MR. WILLIAMS: We have yet to receive it, your 21 Honor. It was to be delivered, but we have yet to receive 22 it, unfortunately. 23 THE COURT: Let's move on. 24 MR. WILLIAMS: (Continuing) 25 Q On page 106 of your deposition I asked you this 1 Q (Continuing) question: "How much do you think 2 we've been able to observe about evolution?" And you gave 3 this answer, "As much as we can really be expected to in 4 the time scale of a hundred years, which is nothing, since 5 the publication of The Origin of the Species. 6 A I'm sorry. I mean, which is very little time. 7 That's clearly an incorrect statement. Indeed, what 8 you're quoting is, of course, inconsistent with the first 9 statement. It's unlikely that that's what I really 10 meant. I said, as much as we can expect to observe. 11 If I said, "which is nothing", I meant that a hundred 12 years is so little time it doesn't amount to very much. 13 It's remarkable we've observed as much as we have. But 14 that would be corrected in the corrected copy when you get 15 it. I'm sorry. 16 Q In terms of the evidence, the physical evidence we 17 have observed, you do mention in this article The Peppered 18 Moths, which has been referred to before in this 19 courtroom. Now I want to see if I understand how you view 20 this. Did these moths change color? 21 A Evolution changes gene frequencies within 22 populations. What happened in the case of the peppered 23 moths is that before industrial soot blackened the trees 24 around Manchester, that the moths which exist in two 25 different forms, depending on which state of the gene they 1 A (Continuing) have, basically peppered and black, 2 with very few black ones, almost all the moths in the 3 population were peppered, when industrial soot blackened 4 the trees in England, there was very strong selection for 5 the first time against peppered moths, which had been 6 virtually invisible against the lighter trees. 7 And there was then for the first time an advantage to 8 the black moths, as we call them, black moths, a few of 9 them. And within fifty years the population consisted 10 almost entirely of black moths, and that's natural 11 selection. 12 Q But did the peppered moths reproduce into black 13 moths? 14 A No. What happened was what the theory of natural 15 selection predicts would happen, namely, that from a 16 spectrum of variability, which included the peppered moths 17 and black moths, the gene frequencies changed, indeed, the 18 gene from black moths — the gene that produces black 19 colors, excuse me, increased markedly and frequently 20 within the population until virtually all moths were black. 21 Q And in 1850, we had two types of moths, black and 22 peppered? 23 A Yes. Very, very deep black. Almost all- 24 Q And today we have two types of moths, black and 25 peppered? 1 A Almost all black. That's what evolution is, 2 natural selection of change of gene frequency. 3 Q Were there any new species generated through this 4 process? 5 A Not in the case of the peppered moths. There are 6 species that have been generated in other ways. 7 Q I think you stated earlier that your second and 8 third reasons, besides evolution in action, in which your 9 primary example was the peppered moths— 10 A No, I had other examples, the evolution of the 11 D.D.T. resistance, which is the incorporation of new 12 mutation in various forms and the production of new 13 species of plants due to conflict. 14 Q All right. 15 A But yes, I mentioned the peppered moths as a 16 prominent— 17 Q But your second and third reasons do rely on 18 inference, do they not? 19 A The second reason I regard as reasonably direct, 20 mainly temporal sequences of fossils. I guess insofar as 21 we don't have a time machine that would take us back two 22 hundred million years, it's not direct visual observation. 23 But to me we are often seeing pretty largely the 24 evolutionary sequences that develop. I think the second 25 category is somewhere in between the direct, visual 1 A (Continuing) observation and the more inferential 2 character. But the third, I might say, the inference is 3 as good a method in science as direct observation. It's 4 not very often that, in fact, we reject conclusions merely 5 through direct vision or sight. 6 Nobody has ever seen an atom or an electron or gravity, 7 for that matter. 8 Q But inference is a process of essentially logic, is 9 it not, of looking at what we have now and trying to— 10 A And drawing out what conclusions we can from it 11 after inference is as inescapable as visual observations. 12 Q Is there any subjectivity in arriving at an 13 inference? 14 A We do see subjectivity, and lack of certainty is, 15 indeed, never certainty in science. I think it's 16 notorious how often even eye witness testimony can be 17 fallible. There just is no certainty in science. I don't 18 think that well documented inferences necessarily is any 19 way secure in certain forms of eye— 20 THE COURT: Excuse me. Do you mind speaking into 21 the microphone. Some of us are having a problem— 22 A Yes. Sorry. 23 Q You've been offered as an expert also, Doctor 24 Gould, on the history of evolutionary theory or 25 evolutionary thought, I think. 1 A Yes. 2 Q As an expert on that area, would you want to be 3 aware of any challenges to evolutionary theory? 4 A Sure. 5 Q Have you read and studied, for example, a book 6 an individual named Kirka called The Implications of 7 Evolution? 8 A Since you called it to my attention, I have indeed 9 read it. I've got it right here. 10 Q Does Kirka develop a general theory of evolution? 11 A He developed something he calls a general theory of 12 evolution. He is not an anti-evolutionist. 13 Q He is not an anti-evolutionist? 14 A No. 15 Q Could I perhaps borrow that for a moment? 16 A Sure. 17 Q Kirka says there are seven basic assumptions in the 18 theory of evolution, does he not? 19 A Yes. That may be six or seven. I remember that 20 list. 21 Q Does he find any of those assumptions to be beyond 22 question? 23 A The book is primarily a critique of the notion that 24 all- 25 Q I'm sorry. I- 1 A You'll have to show me the list. I gave you the 2 one copy I had. 3 Q I'll be glad to show you the book. I asked you did 4 he find any proof for any of those assumptions? 5 A Let me review the list of assumptions. What page 6 are you on? Do you remember where they were? 7 Q I think they're throughout the book. 8 A I see the assumptions. Shall I read them? 9 Q Yes. 10 A The assumptions all have to do with a particular 11 path of history, along with nonliving things that gave 12 rise to living material. Two, spontaneous generation 13 occurred only once. Three, the viruses, bacteria, plants 14 and animals are all interrelated. Four, the protozoa gave 15 rise to metazoa, from single cell to multi-cell creatures. 16 Fifth, that various invertebrate following are 17 interrelated. Sixth, that invertebrates gave rise to 18 vertebrates. And seventh, that invertebrate fish gave 19 rise to amphibian, amphibian to reptiles, and reptiles to 20 birds and mammals. 21 So you see, the set of statements is about the actual 22 path for the history of life. His book calls into 23 question particularly the second one. His main argument 24 appears that is quite consistent with the evidence as we 25 have it, that life might have originated more than one 1 A (Continuing) time on earth. But it's not a 2 critique of whether or not evolution is the mechanism 3 whereby changes in the history of life have occurred. 4 It is disputing the particular pathways. At one point 5 he argues, for example, that it may be true that the 6 metazoa, that is the multi-cellular animals, arose not 7 from protozoa, single-celled animals, but perhaps from 8 single-celled creatures that we call plants, which by the 9 way is an outmoded system of classification. 10 Q Would you say that Kirka is not an 11 anti-evolutionist, in your opinion? 12 A He is not an anti-evolutionist. He says in the 13 last page that he accepts, he calls it a special theory of 14 evolution, namely the mechanics of the process of change 15 is evolutionary. 16 He is disputing, and I don't agree with him in all 17 cases, he is disputing our assurance in knowing the actual 18 pathways of change. 19 Q Does he also talk about that there are certain 20 misconceptions and half truths in evolutionary theory? 21 A Oh, there are, yes. We feel like it is important 22 for scientists to analyze them and be critical. 23 Q Would you recognize this book as being something 24 of, to the degree that it talks about it, an authority or 25 authoritative work on evolution? 1 A It was written in 1960, and I would say much of it 2 is now outdated. I think even in the context of 1960 it's 3 not a book that I regard as particularly strong of the 4 book that were made different assessments of. I would 5 certainly include it within the traditions of science. 6 Q Doctor Gould, if you would, I would like for you 8 A Sure. The whole thing? 9 Q Yes. 10 A That's a lot. "Most students become acquainted with 11 many of the current concepts of biology while still 12 at school, and at an age when most people are, on the 13 whole, uncritical. Then, when they come to study the 14 subject in more detail, they have in their minds several 15 half-truths and misconceptions which tend to prevent them 16 from coming to a fresh appraisal of the situation." 17 I might say I don't agree with that. I think we teach a 18 lot of pap, and having taught is one of the reasons why my 19 associates and I developed punctuated equilibrium as an 20 alternative to the gradualism that I can have no 21 justification is a universal incident. 22 To continue with Kirka, "In addition, with the uniform 23 pattern of education, most students tend to have the same 24 sort of educational background, and so in conversation and 25 discussion they accept common fallacies and agree on 1 A (Continuing) matters based on these fallacies. It 2 would seem good principle to encourage the study of 3 scientific heresies. There is always the danger-" I 4 might say I agree with that, too. 5 "There is always the danger that a reader might be 6 seduced by one of these heresies, but the danger is 7 neither as great nor as serious as the danger of having 8 scientists brought up in a tight mental straight jacket, 9 or taking them so quickly through a subject that they have 10 no time to analyze and digest the material and study it. 11 "Careful perusal of the heresies will also indicate the 12 facts in favor of the currently accepted doctrines, and if 13 the evidence against a theory is overwhelming and that 14 there is no other satisfactory theory to take its place, 15 we should just have to say that we do not yet know the 16 answer." 17 My interpretation of that paragraph is— 18 Q You have now finished reading that part now, have 19 you not? 20 A I have. 21 Q I don't want to cut you off. 22 A That's fine. I'm sorry. You only asked me to read 23 it, not give you an exegesis. 24 Q Do you think it would good, then— I think you 25 said you agree with that portion where it said to 1 Q (Continuing) encourage the study of scientific 2 heresy? It would be a good idea? 3 A Yes. But note the phrase "scientific heresies". 4 Q Yes. Well, would it heresy to propose, perhaps, a 5 new idea of what is science? 6 A A new idea of what is science? It's almost a 7 definitional matter, isn't it? It isn't an argument about 8 substance, it's an argument about words and their 9 meanings. No, I wouldn't call that part of an heretical 10 framework. 11 Q Isn't what Kirka is saying there, as you understand 12 it, that if you have these scientific heresies to be 13 studied, even though they may be terribly minority 14 opinions, that through this clash of ideas, opposing 15 ideas, that the students can better understand the 16 predominate scientific thought, and when they do work 17 themselves, they can come to it with a fresh appraisal and 18 a fresh outlook? 19 A Yes, and I agree with that. Remember the 20 scientific heresy he is teaching in this book is the 21 notion that life may have arisen from non-life on earth 22 more than once. It's a scientific heresy. I repeat, not 23 one that is outside science. 24 Q There is nothing which insulates scientists from 25 being dogmatic and elitist, is there? 1 A Nothing— I didn't understand the question. 2 Q Are scientists not at times dogmatic and elitist? 3 A Scientists are human beings. Some people are 4 dogmatic and elitist. And it is my regret that sometimes 5 scientists are, too, some individuals. I think that among 6 folks I've known, scientists as a group are generally more 7 free from those attitudes than some people, but they are 8 human beings. 9 Q Have you not also described science or scientists 10 as perhaps to appear, at least, as, quote, the new 11 priesthood, close quote? 12 A You'd have to read me the quotation. There is that 13 tendency sometimes. As in the television ads where a 14 scientist comes on in a white coat and says, `drink this 15 brand of orange juice because it's better for you.' 16 Q I think you earlier stated that as far as you know, 17 there is no new evidence and no new idea for creation 18 science in the past one hundred years; is that true? 19 A I think I said since William Jennings Bryan and the 20 Scopes trial I have seen no new arguments from the 21 creationists. 22 Q The metaphor that I think you used earlier this 23 morning on the fossil record, that it's like a book where 24 you have only certain pages, and of the pages you have, 25 you have only certain words, and of the words you have, 1 Q (Continuing) you have only certain letters- 2 A Yes. 3 Q If you had a book like that, do you think you could 4 read it coherently if it were as sparse as that in its 5 outline? 6 A It depends on what criteria and inference I had 7 before me for filling in bits and pieces. 8 Q But if you have that criteria, you have to fill in, 9 do you not, in order to make sense, to make a coherent 10 whole out of the book? 11 A There are different ways that scientists fill in. 12 What I was referring to in the metaphor of the book is the 13 geological record in any one spot. 14 Now, suppose you had a thousand copies of the Iliad and 15 each one only had a few letters, but it was a different 16 few letters in each copy. You could, by gathering 17 together the thousand copies, piece together a more 18 coherent version that you might even be able to read 19 completely. You might not still have every letter. 20 That's pretty much what you do in geology. In any one 21 spot the record is as poor, as Lyell describes it, but by 22 bringing together the evidence from many spots, you can 23 get a much more complete story. 24 Q Were you not describing this book to be the entire 25 fossil record? 1 A I meant to describe it as the record of only one 2 place. 3 Q I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. 4 A I meant to describe it as the record of only one 5 person. Realize, please, that many fossils are 6 geographically very limited in their extent, and so, 7 therefore, there is a limited number of places. The 8 record of any particular fossil is likely to be that way. 9 But the entire larger scale record of the history of life 10 would be pieced together much better. 11 Q Do you consider the use of the word `creator' to be 12 an inherently religious word or religious concept? 13 A It's a word that has so many different vernacular 14 meanings that it's not inherently so. Indeed Darwin uses 15 it himself once or twice, in a metaphorical sense, not to 16 mean supernatural disruption of natural law. Einstein 17 used it in metaphorical senses. 18 Q You wrote a part of a biology textbook, did you not? 19 A Yes, I did. It's called A View of Life. 20 Q A View of Life? 21 A Yes. 22 Q What part did you write? 23 A I wrote the concluding chapters, five or six of 24 them, on evolutionary theory and its implications. 25 Q Do you— First of all let me ask you, do you 1 Q (Continuing) consider the origins of life to be 2 part of the theory of evolution? 3 A It's not part of the theory of evolution as studied by— 5 Q Is it part of evolutionary biology? 6 A It's part of biology. It happened to come into 7 chapters that I wrote, and I think you'll see four pages I 8 wrote on the subject of the history and the treatment of 9 that subject in recent biology textbooks. 10 Q But in treating evolutionary biology, you treated 11 the origin of the first life, did you not? 12 A I would say those chapters are about evolutionary 13 biology and about the whole field we call whole animal 14 biology. There are other subjects treated in those 15 chapters, particularly in the last chapter on the ecology, 16 that are not themselves part of evolutionary biology. 17 Q And in this book, you state at page 689, "Two broad 18 and fascinating questions arise from this scenario for the 19 origin of life. First, given a primordial soup was a 20 complex joining together of organic molecules to form life 21 an inevitable result or a lucky accident." 22 A Yes. 23 Q Do you consider those two parts of that question to 24 be scientific theories or to be testable of scientific 25 theories? 1 A Yes. Those are two alternate views that have been 2 proposed. Again, I disclaim— That is a very short 3 section or a few pages on something I don't know a lot 4 about. I'm sure Mr. Morris will come back and give much 5 more— 6 Q Did you write this? 7 A Oh, yes. Because I'm aware that any textbook 8 writer, of course, is compelled in treating an entire 9 field to deal, at least, summarily with subjects that are 10 not directly within the realm of their expertise. And in 11 so doing, you summarize what the prevailing opinions in 12 the scientific community are. And those, if I understand 13 the literature, are the two major views. 14 One, that the origin of life was virtually chemically 15 inevitable, and one that each step in the sequence is 16 fairly chancy, but given the immense age of the earth, it 17 was bound to happen. 18 Q You further asked the question, "Is life on our 19 planet the product of a single origin?" 20 A Yes. That's Kirka's question. 21 Q Is that testable? 22 A Yes. By inference. It's going to be very 23 difficult to get a— 24 Q By inference? 25 A Most of science's testables are by inference. 1 A (Continuing) There is no way we can go back and 2 look, but what you do is you study the detail of nature 3 biochemical similarities in all forms of life. And from 4 our knowledge of chemistry, which mine is so meager I 5 wouldn't dare to go further, you make assessments of the 6 probability that such great similarities could arise 7 independently more than once. 8 But it is, again, not— 9 Q But using those similarities, are they not subject 10 to more than one interpretation, Doctor Gould? 11 A I gave both interpretations in the book. 12 Q Right. 13 So it's an either/or question? 14 A I guess so, as a matter of definition, either it 15 arose once or it arose more than once, or didn't arise 16 at all. 17 Q And there's no way we can really accurately know 18 how if it arose once or more than once, is there? 19 A Well, I really don't know. You'd have to ask my 20 chemical friends. There may be ways of obtaining pretty 21 fair certainty based on biochemical similarities, but I 22 really don't know that subject. That's why, as I said, 23 I've listed both possibilities. 24 Q This textbook was written for what level? 25 A Introductory college.	http://antievolution.org/cs/mclean_line_numbered_600-633	<urn:uuid:33e109a9-1ae8-474a-8b4e-93a0521c8375>	en	0.964238	0.085451
Return to Transcripts main page Resolving Fiscal Crisis; Al Jazeera Makes Major Move on U.S.; Behind-the-Scenes at the White House; Asteroid to Make close Call with Earth Aired January 3, 2013 - 17:00 ET WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And you're in the SITUATION ROOM. Happening now, more diversity and more partisanship. The new Congress has sworn in. Newcomers are ready to do battle, but can they avoid the gridlock of the last Congress? I'll talk to one of the architects of a bipartisan fiscal reform plan, exclusive conversation with Erskine Bowles. That's coming up. The Arab news network, Al Jazeera, buys a struggling cable channel founded by Al Gore, the former vice president. Is the Middle East government trying to buy American public opinion? And we'll take you inside the White House with some just released official photographs of the Obama presidency. We have glimpses of history you haven't seen before. BLITZER: We begin this hour with 113th Congress that was sworn in today right here in Washington. You'd think it wouldn't take much to outdo the record of the approval rating of the previous Congress, but the 113th will be more diverse, and perhaps, even more partisan than before. And with some incredibly tough and contentious issues to solve, the battle lines are already being drawn. CNN national political correspondent, Jim Acosta, is walking into the SITUATION ROOM. He's got a closer look. You've been studying it this new Senate and House. What do you see? JIM ACOSTA, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It was a busy day, Wolf. Some things did not change. John Boehner is still the speaker of the House, but there are plenty of new faces on Capitol Hill and some of them have come ready for a fight. ACOSTA (voice-over): The newly sworn in 113th Congress is so diverse it's redefining the term ladies of the House. There are more women than ever before, roughly 100. Add that to the approximately 43 African-Americans, 31 Latinos, 12 Asians, and seven gay and bisexual members of the House and Senate and even the politicians, themselves, have taken notice. REP. TAMMY DUCKWORTH, (D) ILLINOIS: It means that we reflect America more. You know, the district where I come from is a very diverse district, and it's good to see Congress starting to look more like the rest of America. ACOSTA: But some things will stay the same on Capitol Hill. John Boehner survived some GOP defections to remain House speaker, not surprisingly, the eyes of the famously emotional Ohio Republican welled up with tears. REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: The American dream is in peril so long as its namesake is weighed down by this anchor of debt. Break its hold and we begin to set our economy free. ACOSTA: That will be no easy task, not with so many moderates now gone from the Senate. ACOSTA: In some of their places, more partisans, like Democrat, Elizabeth Warren. Do you think both sides can work together up here? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope so. I really hope so. ACOSTA: The banking industry critic will now seat on the Senate Banking Committee as a hero to liberals. DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: There are people who sat in that Senate who will do anything to stop her and to stop the kinds of consumer protections that she was fighting for, and now, she's a colleague and -- ACOSTA: Now, they have to deal with her. AXELROD: Now, they're going to have to yield the floor. ACOSTA: On the other side of the aisle, Tea Party backed Texas Republican, Ted Cruz, signaled to CNN he will be fighting for conservatism, not compromise. Were you disappointed on how the fiscal cliff went down? SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: I was. I think it was a lousy deal. I think it raised taxes by $620 billion, which is going to hurt the economy and kill jobs. ACOSTA: His party is already feeling feisty on the next battle to come, whether to raise the nation's debt ceiling. SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) MINORITY LEADER: We cannot agree to increase that borrowing limit without agreeing to reforms that lower the avalanche of spending that's creating this debt in the first place. ACOSTA (on-camera): The last Congress was not just unpopular, it was unproductive, passing the fewest number of laws in at least 40 years. That's why a lot of Americans are hoping the 113th is the do- something Congress -- Wolf. BLITZER: You know, some conservatives, though, say that's good. The less Congress does, the better off the American people are. ACOSTA: That's right. But this Congress that just departed, the 112th, could not have been more unpopular. The 113th does not have a tough act to follow. BLITZER: Yes. We'll see what happens. Thanks very much. Jim Acosta is going to be a busy guy. With a new Congress in place and a new cabinet may soon be following, President Obama's though, still on vacation in Hawaii. Is he clearly, though, mulling over some choices to fill some very important second term vacancies? Let's go to Honolulu right now. Our White House correspondent, Dan Lothian, is standing by. What are you hearing about some of those opened positions, Dan? DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, Wolf, administration sources telling me that there are no plans for the president to make any cabinet announcements while here on vacation, but that it's possible, though, not definite that that will happen when he returns to Washington next week. These are key positions that need to be filled and some of the nominations could face stiff opposition. LOTHIAN (voice-over): CNN has learned Chuck Hagel, top contender for the Defense Department post whose prospects had appeared to be dimming amid criticism from pro-Israel groups and gay organizations over past comments, is still in the game. Close friend, former senator Max Cleland tells CNN, quote, "I understand his nomination is back on the table and I believe very strongly he should be defense secretary." A strong endorsement that the president is not yet ready to make, but recently on NBC's "Meet the Press" did not count him out. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My number one criteria will be who's going to do the best job in helping to secure America. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything of disqualifying him? OBAMA: Not that I see. LOTHIAN: But Hagel supporters are concerned about the process of names being floated, exposed to harsh scrutiny before they are formally named. ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Anyone with any record of involvement in controversial issues will always mobilize against the would-be appointee a whole phalanx (ph) of accusations and sometimes distortions. LOTHIAN: If not Hagel, Michele Flournoy, under secretary of defense for policy, remains in the mix. At the treasury department where Sec. Timothy Geithner plans to leave sometime around inauguration, one name floated American Express CEO, Kenneth Chenault, has no plans to leave that company, a spokesman confirmed to CNN. White House chief of staff, Jack Lew, is considered to be another choice for the job. And at the CIA, counterterrorism and homeland security adviser, John Brennan, and acting CIA director, Michael Morell, remain on the short list according to a source. History shows most presidents get the nominees they want, but in this political environment, there's no guarantee. REID WILSON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, NATIONAL JOURNAL HOTLINES: It used to just be Supreme Court justices who inspire these sort of partisan free for alls. Now, it's bleeding down into a president's cabinet picks as well. LOTHIAN (on-camera): Now, the president has already made one choice for secretary of state, Senator John Kerry, for that position. He's expected to have a smooth confirmation. Now, I did talk to a senior administration official, asked him if the president had already settled on names for all of those positions but just not made them public. This official telling me, quote, "no decision is final" -- Wolf. BLITZER: Dan Lothian in Hawaii for us. Dan, thanks very much. Let's dig a little bit deeper right now. The politics behind filling the president's cabinet. Our sister publication "Time" magazine takes a closer look at that in this week's brand-new issue. "Time" senior correspondent, Michael Crowley, is joining us here in the SITUATION ROOM. Michael, thanks for coming in. BLITZER: It's never really completely easy getting confirmation. You nominate someone, getting them confirmed, but it looks like it's going to be a little bit tougher for this second term President Obama in certain key positions. CROWLEY: Yes, it is. And I think you have to look no further than the recent example of what happened to Susan Rice who was Obama's putative choice to be secretary of state before he nominated John Kerry. Her nomination never was submitted. She never made to the Senate. She was shot down before Obama was able to officially tap her. It's a combination of the extreme partisan climate we're in. People are angry to each other over other issues. We've just come out of a heated presidential election. We have these fights over the budget. And on the other hand, the Republicans in the Senate are exercising their ability to filibuster and block up nominations to unprecedented degrees, according to a lot of experts who have followed Washington and the Congress for decades. BLITZER: Your colleague, Michael Greenwald (ph), has a strong piece in the new issue of "Time" in which he says, among other things, "Obama's second term is shaping up to be full of non-stop, overt partisan warfare. Congressional scholars say the modern GOP has taken the confirmation process to new extremes." Go ahead and elaborate." CROWLEY: Well, you know, Wolf, to some degree, these are powers that have always been there but the norms in Washington are changing. People are more aggressive about exercising powers they have. You know, there's just a little bit less of politeness, there's a little bit less of -- this is the decorum. This is how we've always done it. People are saying, where is our leverage? How can we use it? How can we maximize it? And people are finding new ways to do it. They're being more aggressive. And again, it's just a very tense partisan atmosphere right now. We just came out of this election. There's a lot of bitterness over that. They're fighting over the budget. And also, I think that there's evidence that shows that Republicans in Congress are more conservative than they were, thanks to a lot of backers, including the way primaries are working out on the Republican side. More conservatives who really have a stomach for a fight. They're not interested in compromising, but they're not interesting in Washington traditions like deferring to the president to let him choose his team of advisers, which is kind of a long- standing Washington point of etiquette which has kind of gone out the window now. BLITZER: What area where there could be some bipartisan cooperation is a sensitive issue that wasn't tackled during the first term, comprehensive immigration reform. The president clearly wants to do something this year. There are some Republicans, Marco Rubio, for example, he looks to be ready to cooperate, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. You think that they're going to get something done? I remember the Bush administration, President Bush, trying to work with Senator Kennedy, Senator McCain, couldn't do it then. CROWLEY: I'm a skeptic, Wolf. I may be too cynical. And my prediction is not worth much more than anyone else's, but I would just say that the reason I'm skeptical is the passion about immigration within the republican base that I've seen personally and you probably have as well, but, you know, in my travels on the campaign trail, particularly, the Republican primaries, it was no issue that infuriated Republican primary voters like the immigration. The rhetoric they used. I was at a town hall forum where I heard a guy talking about threatened to shoot people coming across the boarder. There is so much anger. Now, I haven't heard conservatives say that do you think the party is waking up, that some of the key Republican media outlets might be changing their tone, making a little bit easier coming some of the anger and making it easier for Republicans to make (ph) a deal, but I remain skeptical. BLITZER: Don't you think the Republicans, though, want to reach out to Hispanic community and demonstrate that they are not simply walking away completely from them? CROWLEY: That's right. And so, that's the bind they face, but I just think that the base is not there yet. The Republicans who vote in primaries, who will be voting in the midterm primaries as we go into the midterm Congressional elections and who will shape the next presidential primary, they're not there yet. In my personal and anecdotal experience, I think according to a lot of the polling. And so, the party has got to find a way to bring them around and I just haven't seen that yet. BLITZER: Michael Crowley of "Time" magazine, thanks for coming in. CROWLEY: Thank you, Wolf. BLITZER: A key architect to fiscal reform says Congress and the White House fell well short of what they had to do. ERSKINE BOWLES, CO-FOUNDER, FIX THE DEBT: We had a chance for our generation to do something big, to put our fiscal House in order, and we absolutely blew it. BLITZER: My exclusive interview with Erskine Bowles, the former co-chairman of the Simpson-Bowles commission on the dangerous cliffs, yes, cliffs that lie ahead. And up next, sudden death from a sky. A top Taliban commander killed in a U.S. drone strike. Why the Pakistanis right now are furious? BLITZER: For a top Taliban commander linked to attacks on U.S. troops, death came from the sky suddenly without warning. The drone strike which killed several militants in Pakistan's rugged tribal area is causing some new controversy. Our foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty, has got the details for us. Jill, what's going on? JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, U.S. official now is confirming the death of that key warlord. He does not saying how he died, but he does say that Mullah Nazir (ph) and his men were directly responsible for planning and carrying out cross border attacks on coalition forces in Afghanistan as well as providing protection for al Qaeda forces in Pakistan. DOUGHERTY (voice-over): Pakistani intelligence officials tell CNN what they believe was a U.S. drone has killed a key Pakistani- Taliban commander in South Waziristan. Mullah Nazir, also known as Maulvi Nazir Wazir, Pakistani warlord who sent his men to Afghanistan to fight U.S. and NATO troops. The Pentagon is not confirming Mullah Nazir's death, but senior officials are calling reports that he died a major development. Nazir, they say, had a lot of blood on his hands. Pentagon spokesman, George Little, saying, any time a bad guy has a bad day, it's a good day for us. But in Pakistan, fury over Nazir's killing. A man who played both sides against the middle. PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Mullah Nazir was one of the top commanders of the Taliban. He had done a peace deal with the Pakistani government. So, unlike some of the Pakistani- Taliban, he wasn't regarded as an enemy of the Pakistani state, but he was certainly sending Taliban soldiers into Afghanistan to attack U.S. and NATO targets. DOUGHERTY: At the state department, questions about the drone strikes brought the usual terse (ph) response. VITORIA NULAND, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Again, I'm not going to talk about intelligence issues at all from this podium. DOUGHERTY: But the state department has had to deal with the fallout from previous strikes that have angered Pakistan. Nevertheless, relations between the two countries recently have been on the mend. The killing of the militants came even as Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. Sherry Rehamn discussed new economic initiatives between the two countries with a top state department official. DOUGHERTY (on-camera): And a U.S. official says while it's still too soon to tell, the death of Nazir along with some of his deputies could push his network into disarray, and as a result, degrade al Qaeda's access to South Waziristan -- Wolf. BLITZER: We'll watch the fallout together with you, Jill. Thank you. Meanwhile, some stunning travel plans in the works. Sources telling me that the Google chairman, Eric Schmidt, will be traveling to North Korea on what's being described as a private humanitarian visit. But could Google be trying to expand its online empire into -- inside that tightly controlled communist nation? Now, the state department isn't to please. The spokeswoman, Victoria Nuland, had this exchange with a reporter. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you think the timing is particularly helpful? NULAND: Well, in light of recent actions by the DRPK -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By that, you mean the missile? NULAND: Correct. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, did you express your view to them, I mean, that the timing was not right? NULAND: They are well aware of our views. BLITZER: The Google chairman, Eric Schmidt, will travel with the former New Mexico governor, the former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Bill Richardson, who's made a number of humanitarian trips to North Korea. Sources also tell me they believe Richardson will try to get the release of an American prisoner captured last month in North Korea. Those are some pictures we showed you. I traveled with Governor Richardson to north Korea two years ago back in December 2010. One of the major battles here in Washington will be over the debt ceiling. I'll talk about that and more with Erskine Bowles. He worked at a plan to try to fix this crisis. He's firm on where Democrats and Republicans should not be looking for a fight. BOWLES: We shouldn't negotiate on the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. That is crazy. BLITZER: A deadly car bombing in Iraq once again stirring fresh fears of violence between various religious groups. Kate Bolduan is monitoring that and some of the other top stories in the SITUATION ROOM right now. So, what's the latest? KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. At least 15 people were killed and dozens more injured when the bomb went off at a bus station filled with religious pilgrims. It happened less than 50 miles south of Baghdad. The bombing comes after protests by tens of thousands of Sunni Muslim against the Shiite-led government. No group, though, has claimed responsibility for this attack. A very different story. Actor, Gerard Depardieu, joked a few weeks ago that Russian president, Vladimir Putin, had sent him a passport, but now, it might actually happen. Depardieu plead his native friends in a high profile protest of government plans to raise taxes on wealth citizen. He says he already paid 85 percent of his income in taxes last year. Now, Mr. Putin is offering the actor's citizenship if he wants it along with a 13 percent flat income tax rate that comes with it. Sure will be more about that. And by the time the bill to avert the fiscal cliff was delivered to the White House, President Obama was some 5,000 miles away in Hawaii, enter the auto pen. The president reviewed a digital copy of the bill and then aides used the auto pen to put his signature on it, you see working right there, rather than have the commissioning special flight to send a hard copy of it to Hawaii. Inauguration day for President Obama is less than three weeks away and if you want something special to celebrate with the 57th presidential inauguration store is opened just for you. Looking at some of the online stores, quote, "essentials." You can find a wide selection of buttons for some $5. Obama tube socks will keep you (INAUDIBLE) on up to a medallion set for a good $7,500. I know you will be getting a -- BLITZER: What about an auto pen? An inaugural auto pen? BOLDUAN: I think those are pretty limited supply. BLITZER: Yes. Limited auto pen. BOLDUAN: I mean, I'm not often in Hawaii, so you don't have to auto-pen me. BLITZER: Auto-pen. OK. Thank you. After the fiscal cliff, a bigger cliff, the debt ceiling fight. BOWLES: For God's sake, I wouldn't wait until the last minute. We've had enough of this brinkmanship, moving from crisis to crisis. BLITZER: I'll speak exclusively with Erskine Bowles, the co- chair of that bipartisan panel which tried to head off this entire crisis. BLITZER: Congress went to the 111th hour and then way beyond before agreeing to a deal that keep the country from going over the fiscal cliff. That tax agreement was signed into law today but more cliffs lie ahead, including the very dangerous problem of raising the U.S. debt ceiling. BLITZER: And Erskine Bowles is joining us right now. He's the co-founder of the organization called Fix the Debt, which is obviously something important, former White House chief of staff under president Bill Clinton, and the co-sponsor of the Simpson-Bowles commission designed to deal with debt relief and deficit reduction. Erskine Bowles, thanks very much for joining us. BOWLES: Thank you, Wolf. I'm glad to be with you. BLITZER: All right. A lot of important issues on the table, but first of all, had you been a member of the House or the senate, how would you have voted for that fiscal relief legislation? BOWLES: Look, I would have voted for it. You know, I think going over the cliff would have been an economic disaster for the country. It was too much, too quick, too abruptly, and if you look at cuts that were, you know, in the sequester, they're all in the discretionary items. None of them deal with the things you really need to slow the rate of growth and that's the entitlement programs. And it did generate a little bit of revenue for the country, about $600 billion worth. So, I would have voted for it. It was a step in the right direction but for sure, Wolf, it was a missed opportunity. I've called this the magic moment, you know, where we had a chance for our generation to do something big, to put our fiscal House in order, and we absolutely blew it. BLITZER: In the next few weeks, as you well know, there will be at least three crises points coming up raising the nation's debt ceiling dealing with what's called that sequestration, those automatic spending cuts and domestic spending and national security spending. Also, continuing resolution to keep the government operating. How would you deal with those crisis points in order to deal with what you want, which is the big picture and really getting to the bottom of this whole issue? BOWLES: For God's sake, I wouldn't wait until the last minute. We've had enough of this brinksmanship, this moving from crisis to crisis. That is a foolish way for any organization, small or large, much less the U.S. government, the largest economy in the world, to run its organization. Here's what we've got to do. We have got to do -- we make the tough decisions. And you know, we're only about halfway there of the things we have to do. We've got to make sure that we, you know, reform our tax code. We've got to broaden the base, simplify the code, get rid of some of this backdoor spending in the tax code. We've got to slow the rate of growth of the entitlement programs, particularly, health care. If we don't slow the rate of growth of health care, it will absolutely bankrupt the country. And finally, we've got to make Social Security sustainably solvent. These are the big items we have to deal with if we're going to stabilize the debt and get it on a downward path this person (ph) to GDP. These guys have got to negotiate. They've got to start working together. They've got to put some of his ultra partisan politics aside and deal with these really big issues. BLITZER: But you know Washington right now, it's very dysfunctional, despite the last-minute deal on the fiscal cliff, and there was some bipartisanship at the very, very end, but it looks like they only want to deal with what we call small ball. They're not ready to deal with that big picture unless you see something there that I'm not seeing. BOWLES: Look, I can tell you, what I see are the things that you said. You know, there is great uncertainty out here in the country. The markets are going to react at some point in time and we've got severely to the lack of knowledge of what's going to go on, the uncertainty. You know, and we do have the debt ceiling coming up. We do have the budget coming up. You know, we do have this sequester coming up. All of that creates great uncertainty. And what these guys have got to do is start acting like grownups and they've got to start negotiating, just like, I might add, we did in the 1990s when President Clinton actually sat down and negotiated with Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott. Even when there was ultrapartisanship people say that partisanship is so much worse today than it was then. Hell, back then, they were trying to impeach the president. I mean, gosh, we've had partisanship but you've got to put that partisanship aside and work together. BLITZER: Hearing what the president says repeatedly now when it comes to raising that so-called debt ceiling, it's going to have to be raised by the end of February, early March, at the latest. Now I want to play a little clip. Listen to the president. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Congress in anyway suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history until we did this last year, I will not play that game. BLITZER: He says he won't play that game and Republicans are saying they're only going to raise the debt ceiling if there's an equal amount of spending cuts accompanying the raising of the debt ceiling. He says he's not going to play that game. Will he have any choice? BOWLES: Look, that's the kind of brinkmanship I'm talking about. We shouldn't negotiate on the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. That is crazy. Why would we want to put our economy through that? But there are lots of things we can negotiate on. We do have the sequester. We do have the end of a continuing resolution. We have lots of things coming up that will force us to make some of these tough decisions. BLITZER: Here's what Mitch McConnell wrote in an op-ed on Yahoo! News. And I'm going to read it to you because he's going after the president. He's the Republican leader in the Senate. "Predictably the president is already claiming that his tax hike on the rich isn't enough. I have news for him. The moment that he and virtually every elected Democrat in Washington signed off on the terms of the current arrangement, it was the last word on taxes. That debate is over." What he's saying is, it's now all about spending cuts, no more discussion of taxes for all practical purposes. No more increases in taxes. It's all spending cuts. Do you agree with Mitch McConnell on that? BOWLES: I actually don't. I think the primary focus has to be on spending cuts. You know, we have got to slow the rate of growth of health care in particular. We've got to make Social Security sustainably solvent. And we're going to have to do more in the discretionary front. So there's lots of work left to be done on the spending side, and we haven't had enough discussions of that to date. BLITZER: Would you like to be the Treasury secretary? BLITZER: OK. That's a pretty blunt answer. Because your name -- you've seen your name floated out there as a possible successor to Timothy Geithner. BOWLES: And the reason I say that is, look, I'm 67 years old. I've been gone from home for over a dozen years doing various public service things and I've come home, I've got nine grandchildren under 7, and I really want to stay home. So I don't want a full time job either in the public or the private sector. BLITZER: One final question. How disappointed were you that the president rejected the Simpson/Bowles recommendations? BOWLES: Well, look, I was disappointed at the time but I came to understand that what he was doing was -- his goal was to use it as a framework for his discussions that he had with Speaker Boehner back in the -- gosh, almost two years ago now. And his first effort to get a grand bargain. He felt that was the way to be successful. If it'd been right, he would have been proven to be a political genius. Unfortunately, he wasn't. They didn't get a deal done. And so I was very disappointed. BLITZER: Yes, I think that was an historic moment to try to do that grand bargain. I know you and Alan Simpson worked hard on it together with the other members of your commission. It was clearly a missed opportunity, certainly with hindsight, at least that's what I think and I know you agree. BOWLES: And we're going to keep working on it. This is -- you know, our generation, Wolf, yours and mine, we're the ones that created this fiscal mess. I don't care whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. Together we created this mess. And it's our responsibility to clean it up. We can't leave this until the next generation. BLITZER: Erskine Bowles, thanks for all that you have done. Thank Senator Simpson for us as well, and we'll stay in touch -- BOWLES: I sure will. Thank you, sir. Good to talk to you. BLITZER: Al Jazeera making a major move for more viewers right here in the United States. Up next, we have details behind the network's multi-million dollar purchase. And the story behind this rare moment captured by a White House photographer. We're going behind the scenes in the Oval Office. BLITZER: The TV network Al Jazeera has bought a major foothold right here in the United States. It announced it purchase Al Gore's Current TV which is on the Channel Guide of 40 million homes right here in the United States. Gore and co-founder Joel Hyatt put out a statement saying, among other things, "Al Jazeera has the same goals and, like Current, believes that facts and truth lead to a better understanding of the world around us." Let's discuss this with Brian Stelter, the "New York Times" media and TV correspondent, also joining us, Howard Kurtz, of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES", who's the Washington bureau chief of "Newsweek" and "The Daily Beast." Brian, you broke this story in the "New York Times." So tell us, why does Al Jazeera want Current TV? BRIAN STELTER, TV AND MEDIA CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: Al Jazeera has been trying and frankly failing for years to get on television here in the United States. It's been so much of uphill battle it's more like a cliff they're trying to climb up. And I think they eventually decided they had to buy their way in by buying Current TV. BLITZER: Tell us about the timing of this deal, because you have an important and interesting nugget in your report. STELTER: You know, for the days leading up to New Year's Eve, Al Gore and his partners were trying to get the deal done by midnight because of course higher tax rates were going to into effect. As it turned out the deal wasn't done until yesterday on January 2nd but they were trying to avoid those higher tax rates. BLITZER: What do you make of this, Howie? You study the media. You've been watching what's going on. Why does Al Jazeera, which is based in Doha, Qatar, really want to have a foothold on the American media market? They already have Al Jazeera in English as well as Al Jazeera in Arabic which is very popular around the Arab world? HOWARD KURTZ, CNN'S RELIABLE SOURCES: First, Wolf, can I note the unusual nature -- all right, the essential weirdness of a former vice president of the United States selling his network to an Arab- based network that is owned by a foreign government? But leaving that aside, as Brian says, Al Jazeera English, which has actually won some praise in recent years for its international reporting, including among others from Hillary Clinton, has -- you know, wants to reach the big and lucrative American market. So it faces an uphill climb at this point for two reasons. One is, can it put the numbers on the board? Can it draw enough ratings that cable systems have been wanting to keep it one. Time-Warner Cable, the -- affiliated with the parent company of this network has already said no. And secondly, can it deal with the image problem when it was battling the Bush administration during the war on terror that was left behind where some people thought the network -- the parent network had an anti-American tone. BLITZER: You quote the author, Brian, of a book entitled "The Al Jazeera Effect." You have this in one of your reports. You say there are still people who will not watch it. We're talking about Al Jazeera. Who will say that it's a terrorist network. How much of a problem will this be for the new owners of Current TV, whatever format they eventually decide to go with? STELTER: You know, a lot of people don't even know this but the only journalist ever detained at Guantanamo Bay was an Al Jazeera cameraman. You know, this sort of disdain goes back along time. And it's deeply rooted. But I do think it is subsiding. Al Jazeera will definitely still have an uphill battle trying to get people to tune in. I hear today that some of the distributors that are going to carry the channel are getting some hate mail from some viewers who still don't want to see it on their cable lineups. But money can change a lot of these kind of problems and Al Jazeera has a lot of money. They can put a lot into marketing and promoting the channel and trying to change the image of it. BLITZER: I know that Al Gore and Joel Hyatt, Howie, they tried to get Current TV, make it a major player. They had Keith Olbermann working there for a while. It hasn't exactly worked out the way they wanted. Why? KURTZ: It's been an extraordinarily low-rated channel, Wolf. Because it didn't have a clear identity. It -- even though it was co- founded by Gore, it didn't do a lot of politics. Then it decided to do more politics, the $10 million deal with Keith Olbermann blew up in a contract dispute. Other hosts, Eliot Spitzer went there. You know, haven't gotten much traction. And so, you know, although it looks like Al Gore will make a substantial amount of money on this sale, from a critical point of view and from point of view kind of influencing the national conversation, Current TV just never got it done. BLITZER: Do you think those shows are going to stay under the Al Jazeera ownership, Brian? You know, the Eliot Spitzer show, the Jennifer Granholm show, the former governor of Michigan, a whole bunch of other shows? STELTER: No, I think Howie picked the best word for it. Extraordinarily low ratings. It's kind of amazing to look at 40,000 viewers watching. There are local stations in Memphis and Houston and Toledo that get higher ratings than that. I don't think the shows will stick around. I think some of the hosts might possibly but it's unlikely. I think for the most part, Al Jazeera is buying this for the real estate, because it's beach front real estate, but not for the house, not for anything around it. BLITZER: Yes, but you know -- KURTZ: A lot will -- BLITZER: Howie, go ahead. Make your point. KURTZ: Just briefly going to say a lot will depend, Wolf, on how much appetite there is in the American market for international news. A lot of these organizations have cut back on that. They think Americans are mainly interested in what's going on here at home. And that of course is Al Jazeera (INAUDIBLE) with correspondents around the world. BLITZER: Al Gore and Joel Hyatt, Brian, they may have had money but it's nothing compared to what the Amir of Qatar has. I've been to Doha, Qatar, I've been to Al Jazeera headquarters. They're getting ready to host the World Cup soccer games in Qatar. They've got a ton of money over there. If they want to start spending a lot of money, they could probably build Current into a major player. STELTER: I think that's right. I think in some ways we're entering a new golden age of international news coverage. Now we don't know if anybody wants to watch that but look at the players, the BBC in Britain, Russia has its news channel, China is making inroads into the U.S. with a news channel. And here comes Qatar. Now the front of the pack because it has more homes than anybody else. They would all like to compete with each other and frankly with CNN and other U.S. cable news channels. But it's really unclear if anybody wants to watch those channels. BLITZER: Well, we'll see what happens. You know what, you have a lot of money, you could buy a lot of personalities, you could do some stuff. And I know for a fact that the Amir, the leadership in Qatar, they want to be players not only in the Persian Gulf, where they are, not only in the Arab world, not -- but internationally including right here in the United States. These are very ambitious folks. We'll see what they have to do. I'm just guessing, Howie, you're going to have much more on this story coming up Sunday on "RELIABLE STORIES," is that right? KURTZ: Your guess is correct, Wolf. Sunday morning, 11:00 Eastern. BLITZER: Yes, 11:00 a.m. Eastern. Brian, Howard, thanks very much. Some glimpses of history you haven't seen before. We're taking you inside the White House with just-released official photographs of the Obama presidency. You're going to want to see these. Stay with us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. BLITZER: Let's go behind the scenes right now over at the White House. Through official photographs of the Obama presidency that have just been released today, some show glimpses of history we haven't seen before. Joining us now is the former White House aide Jen Psaki. Most recently a spokeswoman for the Obama re-election campaign. Jen, thanks very much -- BLITZER: -- for coming. I love these pictures. PSAKI: They're great. BLITZER: That Chuck Kennedy took. This is one in the White House, December 28th, 2012, returning early from Christmas vacation, the president met with his top leadership to discuss the fiscal cliff. PSAKI: Well, the body language tells you everything you need to know about this photo. You can -- you can imagine the president saying something like, on one hand, we could do this, or on the other hand, we could do that. If only there were thought bubbles, we would know where they would prefer to be than in this room. BLITZER: You see the Republican leadership over there on the couch. PSAKI: That's right. BLITZER: The Democratic leadership on the -- PSAKI: On the right, the Democratic. BLITZER: On the other side. The vice president -- PSAKI: And the apples in the middle, always in the Oval Office. PSAKI: the symbol of apples. BLITZER: I love the Oval Office. All right. Take a look at the next picture. We'll put it up, show it to our viewers. The president reacts as John Brennan, his counterterrorism adviser, briefs him on details of the shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. The president later said when he went there, that was the worst day of his presidency. PSAKI: Right. He did say that, and it clearly impacted him so terribly. I remember one of the days on the campaign, where he was the most down trodden was the day of the Aurora shooting. What I love about this photo is that the rug he's standing on has famous quotes that he loves. And one of them he uses often, which is the Martin Luther King quote, "The arc of moral justice is long, but it bends towards justice," and that's certainly applicable in this case. BLITZER: And he went up to Newtown. I was there myself. A couple of days later. He delivered a powerful speech. He also met with some kids there. Let's put it up and show it to our viewers. There, he's pretty happy there, it's a great picture that Pete Sousa took. PSAKI: It is. You know, the traveling staff used to say he was a baby whisperer because he was drawn to babies in rope lines and backstage, behind the scenes. And this was clearly such a great moment in an otherwise sorrow-filled day. And I know some of the siblings of one of the young girls who lost her life are in this photo as well. BLITZER: Yes Such a nice picture. Let's go to the next picture, a very different picture, October 2nd, 2012. The president rehearsing debate preparation. You see Ron Klain behind the desk. He was helping the president -- former chief of staff for the vice president. The president sitting there. You were involved in the campaign. BLITZER: John Kerry played Mitt Romney. PSAKI: He did, almost too well, to the point where he got under the president's skin, because he played him so well. BLITZER: Did you ever watch any of those rehearsals? PSAKI: I didn't, I tried to stay out of the fray of that, but this was the day before the infamous first debate, if we can call it that. You have Ron Klain, who won the -- who ran debate prep there. Senator Kerry, clearly, they just ended a mock debate session here, and they're kind of going through what happened, what to work on, some fine points before the debate. BLITZER: Here's November 6th, 2012, happens to be Election Day. The president is waiting for a concession call from the Governor Mitt Romney. PSAKI: So this is a moment -- BLITZER: By the way, take a look and see what channel they're watching over there. PSAKI: Well, clearly, we would like to fix it sometimes for you. BLITZER: They're watching CNN. Because that's very important. Go ahead. PSAKI: So, clearly in this photo, they're fine tuning. We all -- we all thought, including CNN, I think, that the race was going to be called much later, so they had a much shorter timeline to -- BLITZER: This is his speechwriter in the middle there? PSAKI: That's Jon Favreau, his director of speechwriting for many years back in the Senate, David Axelrod, his senior adviser. You see the remnants on Jon Favreau there of the beard that many of the -- campaign staff grew. Now in the neighboring room is all of his friends and family and close campaign aides, celebrating. So they're really trying hard to concentrate and make sure they really capture the moment in the remarks. BLITZER: Here's the next one. You see the president, he's obviously happy on Election Day with his wife. PSAKI: Yes, he is. You know, so happy. There was just elation in that room. There was crying, there was hugging, there was screaming. You see Valerie Jarrett there, I think that might be Craig Robinson, the first lady's brother, in the back. This was really a warm room. People they felt very comfortable with who had been a part of the journey from the beginning. BLITZER: All right. Let's take another picture. Very different picture over here. June 28th, 2012. Look at this, the president is over at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, and he's actually praying with a wounded warrior. PSAKI: Yes, these were -- these are moments that the president rarely speaks about. You know, he enjoys going to Walter Reed, he enjoys talking to the soldiers' families. There aren't media allowed in, so this was a White House photo that was released, I'm sure with the agreement of this family, and he's very much touched by these moments. They're really -- he keeps them with him when he's making decisions about global policy. BLITZER: It's a nice picture. Very good pictures. I want to thank the White House photographers for those excellent pictures. PSAKI: Yes. They're great. BLITZER: Jen Psaki, thanks for coming in. PSAKI: Thank you, Wolf. BLITZER: And sharing with us your thoughts. PSAKI: My pleasure. BLITZER: Earth is poised for a close encounter, get this, with an asteroid. Up next, will there be any threat to the United States when we're closer to the asteroid than we are to the moon. And at the top of the hour, it's the first day of a new session of Congress. The House speaker, John Boehner, already facing some push back from his own party. BLITZER: An asteroid is on track to make a relatively close call with earth. Key words, relatively close. In fact, so close that it will come between us and the moon and even closer than major communication satellites. CNN meteorologist Chad Myers is tracking this asteroid for us. Chad, we're talking pretty short distance, relatively speaking, when it comes to space. CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, only 14,000 miles. And that's just a little more than the old cars had for a warranty, a 12- month, 12,000-mile warranty. So yes, it's going to be very close. It's not going to hit the earth. We already know that. But what it's going to do, Wolf, it's actually going to come between where our satellites are, even the ones that take pictures for the weather and the geo -- GPS satellites, fly right by the earth, and right out the other side. So it could impact satellites two different times, but that's unlikely. The satellites are very small and this thing is not very big at all. I mean, comparatively, we don't want to get hit by it. It's bigger than two, let's say, train cars put together, about 150 or 160 or so feet long, it weighs an awful lot, it would do a lot of damage if it did hit, but so far right now, it is not going to hit here. February 15th, this is the closest approach. Now you would think, wow, can I look at it? Probably not without a telescope or a really good pair of binoculars. So it won't be quite that bright for that to happen. But the moon is 239,000 miles away. This thing is only going to be between about 14,000 and about 16,000 miles from the surface of the earth -- Wolf. BLITZER: So the bottom line, Chad, give us a little perspective. Bottom line, folks are watching, should we be nervous, not so nervous? Excited? Give us a little analysis. MYERS: Maybe excited, but you should not be nervous. This is the diameter of the earth, almost maybe 8,000 miles, when it's rounded up. There's another 8,000 and there's another 4,000. So compared to the diameter of the earth, it's going to be way out here, flying on by. Now considering that the moon is still another 225,000 miles away, this is a very close brush. And this does come within a few hundred thousand or million miles of the earth twice a year. What we don't know quite yet is what the earth will do to this trajectory, to the orbit. Will it bend the trajectory just a little bit, so that the next time it comes by, could it be a little bit closer or a little bit farther away? All those things in 3-D space, kind of all get your head in a spin, so to speak. BLITZER: It's spinning right now. Chad, thanks very much for that. MYERS: You're welcome, Wolf. BLITZER: And happening now, the opening of a new Congress. Will it see the kind of drama and dysfunction that marked the last one? Two new members are here this hour. Out of the hospital and on her way out of a job. A closer look at Hillary Clinton's final days as secretary of state as she prepares to step down.	http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/03/sitroom.02.html	<urn:uuid:b4a16710-1399-40dc-97ef-376fa9cb5084>	en	0.972109	0.038587
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search In Hinduism, an avatar /ˈævətɑr/ (Hindustani: [əʋˈt̪aːr], from Sanskrit अवतार avatāra "descent") is a deliberate descent of a deity to Earth, or a descent of the Supreme Being (e.g., Vishnu for Vaishnavites), and is mostly translated into English as "incarnation", but more accurately as "appearance" or "manifestation".[1][2] The phenomenon of an avatar (descent of God in human and other forms[3]) is observed in Hinduism, Ayyavazhi, and Sikhism only. Thus Avataravada is one of the core principles of Hinduism along with Ekeshwaravada (One Supreme Divine Reality), Veda Praman (Authority of the Vedas), Atman, Karma, Murti Puja, Ahimsa, and Punarjanma (Reincarnation).[4] The term is most often associated with Vishnu, though it has also come to be associated with other deities.[5] Varying lists of avatars of Vishnu appear in Hindu scriptures, including the ten Dashavatara of the Garuda Purana and the twenty-two avatars in the Bhagavata Purana, though the latter adds that the incarnations of Vishnu are innumerable.[6] The avatars of Vishnu are a primary component of Vaishnavism. An early reference to avatar, and to avatar doctrine, is in the Bhagavad Gita.[7] Shiva and Ganesha are also described as descending in the form of avatars. The various manifestations of Devi, the Divine Mother principal in Hinduism, are also described as avatars or incarnations by some scholars and followers of Shaktism.[7][8] The avatars of Vishnu carry a greater theological prominence than those of other deities, which some scholars perceive to be imitative of the Vishnu avatar lists. In Sikhism, an avatar is a deliberate descent of a soul to earth in any form.[9] Guru Granth Sahib believes in the existence of the Dasavatara. In Dasam Granth, Guru Gobind Singh wrote three composition on historical avatars which include Vishnu Avatar, Brahma Avatar, and Rudra Avatar.[10] Etymology and meaning[edit] The Sanskrit noun avatāra is derived from the verbal root tṝ "to cross over", joined with the prefix ava "off, away, down". The word does not occur in the Vedas, but is recorded in Pāṇini (3.3.120). Avatāra was initially used to describe different deities, then around the 6th century AD it began to be used primarily to describe the manifestations of Vishnu.[11] While earlier texts mention deities taking on different forms, the Bhagavad Gita (4.5-9) is the first text to discuss the doctrine associated with the term even though the word avatāra itself is not mentioned.[12] According to some scholars like Mercy Oduyoye, H. M. Vroom, and Noel Sheth, the common translation "incarnation" is somewhat misleading as the concept of an avatar corresponds more closely to the view of Docetism in Christian theology, as different from the idea of God 'in the flesh' in mainstream Christology.[13][14] Meaning in Sikhism[edit] In Sikhism, every soul that has taken form or has been born on earth is called avatar. Guru Granth Sahib believed in the existence of Dasavtara, who were kings of their times who tried their best to bring revolution in the world. Guru Granth Sahib states: ਹੁਕਮਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਦਸ ਅਉਤਾਰਾ ॥ हुकमि उपाए दस अउतारा ॥ By Hukam (Supreme Command), He created His ten incarnations,[15] ਦਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਰਾਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਵਰਤੇ ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਉਧੂਤਾ ॥ दस अउतार राजे होइ वरते महादेव अउधूता ॥ ਅਵਤਰਿ ਆਇ ਕਹਾ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਨਾ ॥ अवतरि आइ कहा तुम कीना ॥ Since your take form (birth), what have you done?[9] Gurmat defines 'avatar' as one who has taken avatar/birth onto this mortal earth. It is quite clear from this line. Avatars of Vishnu[edit] Matsya, fish avatar of Vishnu The concept of avatar within Hinduism is most often associated with Vishnu, the preserver or sustainer aspect of God within the Hindu Trinity or Trimurti or the one and only supreme God for followers of Vaishnavism. Vishnu's avatars typically descend for a very specific purpose. An oft-quoted passage from the Bhagavad Gita describes the typical role of an avatar of Vishnu—as bringing dharma, or righteousness, back to the social and cosmic order:[1][5] Whenever righteousness wanes and unrighteousness increases I send myself forth. and for the establishment of righteousness, I come into being age after age. (Gita:4.7–8) The descents of Vishnu are also integral to His teaching and tradition, whereas the accounts of other deities are not so strictly dependent on their avatar stories. Although it is usual to speak of Vishnu as the source of the avatars, within the Vaishnavism branch of Hinduism Narayana, Vasudeva, and Krishna are also seen as names denoting divine aspects which descend as avatars.[1] The Bhagavata Purana describes Vishnu's avatars as innumerable, though there are ten incarnations (Dashavatara), that are widely seen as his major appearances.[1][6] Krishna and Rama are the two mostly widely known and worshiped avatars of Vishnu, with their stories told in the two major Sanskrit epics, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana.[16] Different lists of Vishnu's avatars appear in different texts, including: the dasavatara from the Garuda Purana; lists of twenty-two, twenty-three, and sixteen avatars in the Bhagavata Purana;[17] thirty-nine avatars in the Pañcaratra[18] the dasavatara again in Agni Purana; the first eight of the dasavatara in Padma Purana. The commonly accepted number of ten was fixed well before the 10th century CE.[17] In addition, various Vaishnava saints and founders are considered to be partial avatars.[19] The various avatars categorized in many different ways. For example: Purusavatara is the first avatara; Gunavataras are represented by the Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) who each preside over one of the Guṇas (rajas, sattva, and tamas); Lilavataras are the well-known ones, and include Avesavataras (beings into whom part of God Himself has entered) and saktyamsavesa (into whom only parts of His power enter); Kalpa-, Manvantara-, and Yuga-avataras descend during different cosmic ages.[20] Some Vaishnavism schools consider Krishna to be the source of all avatars (Krishnaism). Varaha, the boar avatar of Vishnu (18th-century painting, probably of Pahari provenance) The ten best known avatars of Vishnu are collectively known as the Dasavatara (a Sanskrit compound meaning "ten avatars"). This list is included in the Garuda Purana (1.86.10"11).[21] The first four are said to have appeared in the Satya Yuga (the first of the four Yugas or ages in the time cycle described within Hinduism). The next three avatars appeared in the Treta Yuga, the eighth descent in the Dvapara Yuga and the ninth in the Kali Yuga. The tenth, Kalki, is predicted to appear at the end of the Kali Yuga.[22] 1. Matsya, the fish-avatar who saved Manu – the progeniter of mankind from the great deluge and rescued the Vedic scriptures by killing a demon. Story can be found in the Matsya Purana. 2. Kurma, the tortoise-avatar, who helped in the Samudra manthan – the churning of the ocean. Story can be found in the Kurma Purana. 3. Varaha, the boar-avatar, who rescued the earth from the ocean, by killing her kidnapper-demon Hiranyaksha. Story can be found in the Varaha Purana. 4. Narasimha, the half man-half lion avatar, who killed the tyrant demon-king Hiranyakashipu, to rescue the demon's son Prahlada, who was a Vishnu-devotee 5. Vamana, the dwarf-avatar, who subdued the king Maha Bali. Story can be found in the Vamana Purana. 6. Parashurama, sage with the axe who killed the thousand-armed king Kartavirya Arjuna 7. Rama, the king of Ayodhya and the hero of the Hindu epic Ramayana 8. Krishna, the king of Dwarka, a central character in the Bhagavata Purana and the Mahabharata and reciter of Bhagavad Gita. 9. Buddha, also known as Gautam Buddha, the enlightened one. He was born as the crown prince of the Kapilavastu to King Suddhodana and Maya. He was named Siddhartha, meaning "Perfected-Goal." *(see note) 10. Kalki ("Eternity", or "time", or "The Destroyer of foulness"), who is expected to appear at the end of Kali Yuga. Story can be found in the Kalki Purana. • Note: Some versions include Balarama (the elder brother of Krishna) as the eighth avatar, with Krishna listed as the ninth instead of Buddha, while others replace Buddha with Balarama as the ninth avatar. In the Bhagavata Purana[edit] Mohini, the only female avatar of Vishnu (statue in a Belur temple, Karnataka.) As many as forty specific avatars of Vishnu are mentioned in the Bhagavata Purana, though the book adds that the number is innumerable.[23] Twenty-two avatars of Vishnu are listed numerically in the first book:[24] 1. Four Kumaras (Catursana) [BP 1.3.6] – the four Sons of god Brahma and exemplified the path of devotion. 2. Varaha [BP 1.3.7] 3. Narada [BP 1.3.8] the divine-sage who travels the worlds as a devotee of Vishnu 4. Nara-Narayana [BP 1.3.9] – the twin-sages 5. Kapila [BP 1.3.10] – a renowned sage spoken of in the Mahabharata, son of Kardama Muni and Devahuti and sometimes identified with the founder of the Samkhya school of philosophy 6. Dattatreya [BP 1.3.11] – the combined avatar of the Hindu trinity Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. He was born to the sage Atri became a great seer himself. 7. Yajna [BP 1.3.12] – the lord of fire-sacrifice, who took was the Indra – the lord of heaven 8. Rishabha [BP 1.3.13] – the father of King Bharata and Bahubali 9. Prithu [BP 1.3.14] – the sovereign-king who milked the earth as a cow to get the world's grain and vegetation and also invented agriculture 10. Matsya [BP 1.3.15] 11. Kurma [BP 1.3.16] 12. Dhanvantari [BP 1.3.17] – the father of Ayurveda medicine and a physician to the Devas. 13. Mohini [BP 1.3.17] – the enchantress 14. Narasimha [BP 1.3.18] 15. Vamana [BP 1.3.19] 16. Parashurama [BP 1.3.20] 17. Vyasa [BP] 1.3.21] – the compiler of the scriptures – Vedas and writer of the scriptures Puranas and the epic Mahabharata 18. Rama [BP 1.3.22] 19. Krishna [BP 1.3.23] 20. Balarama [BP 1.3.23] 21. Buddha [BP 1.3.24] 22. Kalki [BP 1.3.25] Besides these, another four avatars are described later on in the text as follows: 1. Prshnigarbha [BP 10.3.41] – the son of Prshni 2. Hayagriva [BP 2.7.11] – the horse-faced avatar 3. Hamsa [BP 11.13.19] – the swan, he expounded on the Vedas to Sage Narada. 4. Golden incarnation [BP 11.5.32] – the avatara in Kali-yuga for propagating hari-namasankirtan, which is sometimes interpreted as the saint Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, though there is no explicit mention of a name in the verse.[25] In Dasam Granth[edit] 24 avatars of Vishnu are mentioned in Bachitar Natak's composition in Dasam Granth, the second scripture of Sikhs written by Guru Gobind Singh:[10] Before describing these avatars, the composers have written that these tried to equate themselves with god and unable to know secrets of almighty. But Dasam Granth is controversial among Sikh scholars and few of them believe it to be the work of Guru Gobind Singh. Other Vaishnava avatars[edit] There are many senses and shades of meaning of the term avatar within Hinduism. Purusha avatars[edit] Purusha avatars are sometimes described as the original avatars of Vishnu within the Universe:[26][27][28] Guna avatars[edit] The personalities of the Trimurti (Hindu trinity) are also sometimes referred to as Guna avatars, because of their roles of controlling the three modes (gunas) of nature,[27] even though they have not descended upon an earthly planet in the general sense of the term 'avatar'. • Vishnu – As controller of the mode of goodness (sattva) • Brahma – Controller of the mode of passion and desire (rajas) • Shiva – Controller of the mode of ignorance (tamas) Manvantara avatars[edit] Manvantara avatars are beings responsible for creating progeny throughout the Universe. There are said to be unlimited numbers of these avatars.[29][unreliable source?] "During the hundred years of Brahmā's life, there are 504,000 manvantara-avatāras."[30] Shaktyavesa and Avesa avatars[edit] Avataric incarnations are classified as two kinds • direct (sakshat) • indirect (avesa) When Vishnu himself descends, he is called sakshat or shaktyavesa-avatara, a direct incarnation of God. But when he does not incarnate directly, but indirectly empowers some living entity to represent him, that living entity is called an indirect or avesa avatar.[31][unreliable source?] There are said to be a great number of avesa avatars. Examples include Narada Muni, Sugata Buddha, and Parashurama. Parashurama is the only one of the traditional ten avatars that is not a direct descent of Vishnu. According to the Sri Vaishnavism sect of Hinduism, there are two types of primary or direct avatars, Purna avatars and Amsarupavatars: 1. Purna avatars are those in which Vishnu takes form directly and all the qualities and powers of God are expressed, (e.g. Narasimha, Rama and Krishna).,[32][33][unreliable source?] 2. Amsarupavatars are those in which Vishnu takes form directly but He is manifest in the person only partially. (e.g. avatars from Matsya, Kurma etc.). The avesa or indirect avatars are generally not worshiped as the Supreme being. Only the direct, primary avatars are worshiped in this way. In practice, the direct avatars that are worshiped today are the Purna avatars of Narasimha, Rama and Krishna. Among most Vaishnava traditions, Krishna is considered to be the highest Purna avatar. However, followers of Chaitanya (including ISKCON), Nimbarka, and Vallabha Acharya differ philosophically from other Vaishnavas, such as Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya, and consider Krishna to be the ultimate Godhead, not simply an avatar. That said, all Hindus believe that there is no difference between worship of Vishnu and His avatars as it all leads to Him. According to Madhvacharya (chief proponent of Dvaita or school of differential monism), all avatars of Vishnu are alike in potency and every other quality. There is no gradation among them, and perceiving or claiming any differences among avatars is a cause of eternal damnation. See Madhva's commentary on Katha Upanishad. Avatars of Krishna[edit] Krishna is believed to have incarnated as humans in legends. 1. Swami Chakradhara - the founder of the Vaishnava Mahanubhava sect 2. Samvaliyaji - Sanwaliya Seth, born in Rajasthan 3. Daityasudan - the slayer of the demon Lemurasura of Lemur town Avatars of Ganesha[edit] The Linga Purana declares that Ganesha incarnates to destroy demons and to help the gods and pious people.[34] The two upapuranas – Ganesha Purana and Mudgala Purana – detail the avatars of Ganesha. Both these upapuranas are core scriptures of the Ganapatya sect – exclusively dedicated to Ganesha worship. Four avatars of Ganesha are listed in the Ganesha Purana:Mohotkata, Mayūreśvara, Gajanana and Dhumraketu. Each avatar corresponds to a different yuga, has a different mount and different skin complexion, but all the avatars have a common purpose – to slay demons.[35] The Mudgala Purana describes eight avatars of Ganesha:[36] 1. Vakratunda (Vakratuṇḍa) ("twisting trunk"), his mount is a lion. 2. Ekadanta ("single tusk"), his mount is a mouse. 3. Mahodara ("big belly"), his mount is a mouse. 4. Gajavaktra (or Gajānana) ("elephant face"), his mount is a mouse. 5. Lambodara ("pendulous belly"), his mount is a mouse. 6. Vikata (Vikaṭa) ("unusual form", "misshapen"), his mount is a peacock. 7. Vighnaraja (Vighnarāja) ("king of obstacles"), his mount is the celestial serpent Śeṣa. 8. Dhumravarna (Dhūmravarṇa) ("grey color") corresponds to Śiva, his mount is a horse. Avatars of Shiva[edit] Sharabha (right) with Narasimha (18th-century painting, Pahari/Kangra School) Although Puranic scriptures contain occasional references to avatars of Shiva, the idea is not universally accepted in Saivism.[7][37] As an avatar requires residence in a womb, Shiva as ayonija (not of a womb) cannot manifest himself as an avatar. The Linga Purana speaks of twenty-eight forms of Shiva which are sometimes seen as avatars.[38] In the Shiva Purana there is a distinctly Saivite version of a traditional avatar myth: Shiva brings forth Virabhadra, one of his terrifying forms, in order to calm Narasimha, an avatar of Vishnu. When that fails, Shiva manifests as the human-lion-bird Sharabha. The story concludes with Narasimha becoming a devotee of Shiva after being bound by Sharabha.[39] However, Vaishnava followers including Dvaita scholars, such as Vijayindra Tirtha (1539–95) refute this Shaivite view of Narasimha based on their reading of Sattvika Puranas and Śruti texts.[40] The monkey-god Hanuman who helped Rama – the Vishnu avatar is considered by some to be the eleventh avatar of Rudra (Shiva).[41][42] Some regional deities like Khandoba are also believed by some to be avatars of Shiva.[43][44] Other stated avatars of Shiva, according to some sources, are 8th century non-dualist Vedanta philosopher (Advaita Vedanta) Adi Shankara. He was named "Shankara" after Lord Shiva and is considered by some to have been an incarnation of the god[45] and Virabhadra who was born when Shiva grabbed a lock of his matted hair and dashed it to the ground. Virabhadra then destroyed Daksha's yajna (fire sacrifice) and severed his head as per Shiva's instructions.[46] In Dasam Granth, Guru Gobind Singh have mentioned two avatars of Rudra: Dattatreya Avatar and Parasnath Avatar.[47] Avatars of Devi[edit] A 17th-century painting depicting Hanuman worshiping Rama and his wife Sita. Lakshmana is also seen in this painting from Smithsonian Institution collection. Rama is considered the avatar of Vishnu, Sita of Vishnu's consort Lakshmi, Lakshmana of Shesha – the serpent on whom Vishnu sleeps, and Hanuman is believed to be an avatar of Shiva. Avatars are also observed in Shaktism, the sect dedicated to the worship of the Goddess (Devi), but they do not have universal acceptance in the sect. The Devi Bhagavata Purana describes the descent of Devi avatars to punish the wicked and defend the righteous—much as the Bhagavata Purana does with the avatars of Vishnu.[48] Like Vishnu, his consort Lakshmi incarnates as Sita and Radha – the consorts of Rama and Krishna avatars.[49] Nilakantha, an 18th-century commentator on the Devi Bhagavata Purana – which includes the Devi Gita – says that various avatars of the Goddess includes Shakambhari and even the masculine Krishna and Rama – generally thought to be Vishnu's avatars.[50] Lakshmi and Saraswati are also goddesses worshipped as Devi avatars.[51] Avatars of Brahma[edit] In Dasam Granth, second scriptures of Sikhs written by Guru Gobind Singh, mentioned seven Brahma Avatars.[52] 1. Valmiki Avatar 2. Kashyap Avatar 3. Sukra Avatar 4. Baches Avatar 5. Vyas Avatar 6. Khat Rishi Avatar 7. Kalidas Avatar See also[edit] 1. ^ a b c d Matchett, Freda (2001). Krishna, Lord or Avatara?: the relationship between Krishna and Vishnu. 9780700712816. p. 4. ISBN 978-0-7007-1281-6. 2. ^ Introduction to World Religions, by Christopher Hugh Partridge, pg. 148, at Books.Google.com 3. ^ Vivekjivandas, Sadhu. Hinduism: An Introduction – Part 1. (Swaminarayan Aksharpith: Ahmedabad, 2010) p. 33. ISBN 978-81-7526-433-5 4. ^ Vivekjivandas, Sadhu. Hinduism: An Introduction – Part 1. (Swaminarayan Aksharpith: Ahmedabad, 2010) p. 33–36. ISBN 978-81-7526-433-5 5. ^ a b Kinsley, David (2005). Lindsay Jones, ed. Gale's Encyclopedia of Religion 2 (Second ed.). Thomson Gale. pp. 707–708. ISBN 0-02-865735-7. 6. ^ a b Bryant, Edwin Francis (2007). Krishna: A Sourcebook. Oxford University Press US. p. 18. ISBN 978-0-19-514891-6. 7. ^ a b c Sheth, Noel (Jan 2002). "Hindu Avatāra and Christian Incarnation: A Comparison". Philosophy East and West (University of Hawai'i Press) 52 (1 (Jan. 2002)): 98–125. doi:10.1353/pew.2002.0005. JSTOR 1400135. 8. ^ Hawley, John Stratton; Vasudha Narayanan (2006). The life of Hinduism. University of California Press. p. 174. ISBN 978-0-520-24914-1. 9. ^ a b Page 792, Line 7, Bhagat Kabir 10. ^ a b Dasam Granth Sahib 11. ^ Sheth, p. 116. 12. ^ Sheth, pp. 98, 116. 13. ^ Mercy Amba Oduyoye, H. M. Vroom, One gospel – many cultures: case studies and reflections on cross-cultural theology, Rodopi, 2003, ISBN 978-90-420-0897-7, p. 111. 14. ^ Sheth, p. 108. 15. ^ Page 1037, Line 5, Guru Nanak 17. ^ a b Mishra, Vibhuti Bhushan (1973). Religious beliefs and practices of North India during the early mediaeval period, Volume 1. BRILL. pp. 4–5. ISBN 978-90-04-03610-9. 18. ^ Schrader, Friedrich Otto (1916). Introduction to the Pāñcarātra and the Ahirbudhnya saṃhitā. Adyar Library. p. 42. 19. ^ Sheth, p. 100. 20. ^ Sheth, pp. 100–101. 21. ^ Garuda Purana (1.86.10-11) 22. ^ Matchett, p. 86. 23. ^ Rukmani, T. S. (1970). A critical study of the Bhagavata Purana, with special reference to bhakti. Chowkhamba Sanskrit studies 77. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series. p. 4. 24. ^ Bhag-P 1.3 Canto 1, Chapter 3 25. ^ The Golden Avatara 26. ^ Avatar – Categories of Incarnations[dead link] 27. ^ a b gaudiya.com – theology 28. ^ Mittal, Sushil (2004). The Hindu World. New York: Routledge. p. 164. ISBN 0-203-67414-6. 29. ^ Avatar – Categories of Incarnations,by Atmatattva Das, 06/17/2005[dead link] 30. ^ Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 20.322 31. ^ Teachings of Lord Chaitanya – Avatars 32. ^ Types of Avatars; answers to questions #67-70. 33. ^ DLSHQ.org 34. ^ Grimes, John A. (1995). Gaṇapati: song of the self. SUNY Press. p. 105. ISBN 978-0-7914-2439-1. 35. ^ Grimes, pp. 100–105. 36. ^ Phyllis Granoff, "Gaṇeśa as Metaphor," in Robert L. Brown (ed.) Ganesh: Studies of an Asian God, pp. 94–5, note 2. ISBN 0-7914-0657-1 39. ^ Soifer, pp. 91–92. 40. ^ Sharma, B. N. Krishnamurti (2000). A history of the Dvaita school of Vedānta and its literature: from the earliest beginnings to our own times. Motilal Banarsidass Publ. p. 412. ISBN 978-81-208-1575-9. 43. ^ Sontheimer, Gunther-Dietz (1990). "God as King for All: The Sanskrit Malhari Mahatmya and its context". In Hans Bakker. The History of Sacred Places in India as Reflected in Traditional Literature. BRILL. ISBN 90-04-09318-4. p.118 44. ^ Sontheimer, Gunther-Dietz (1989). "Between Ghost and God: Folk Deity of the Deccan". In Alf Hiltebeitel. Criminal Gods and Demon Devotees: Essays on the Guardians of Popular Hinduism. SUNY Press. ISBN 0-88706-981-9. p.332 45. ^ Padma Purana 6.236.7-11 46. ^ Mani, Vettam (1975). Puranic Encyclopaedia: A Comprehensive Dictionary With Special Reference to the Epic and Puranic Literature. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. p. 859. ISBN 0-8426-0822-2. 47. ^ Composition 10, Rudra Avtar 48. ^ Brown, Cheever Mackenzie (1990). The triumph of the goddess: the canonical models and theological visions of the Devī-Bhāgavata Purāṇa. SUNY Press. p. 32. ISBN 978-0-7914-0363-1. 49. ^ Hindu Avatāra and Christian Incarnation: A Comparison, Noel Sheth Philosophy East and West, Vol. 52, No. 1 (Jan., 2002), pp. 98, 117. 50. ^ Brown, Cheever Mackenzie (1998). The Devī Gītā: the song of the Goddess. SUNY Press. p. 272. ISBN 978-0-7914-3940-1. verses 9.22cd-23ab 51. ^ Brown, p. 270. 52. ^ Composition 9 - Brahma Avtar Further reading[edit] External links[edit]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar	<urn:uuid:5d6a5bd7-c11c-44c5-9a9f-fa4e661dff10>	en	0.845111	0.042462
List of Macross Frontier characters From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Sheryl Nome) Jump to: navigation, search Cast of Macross Frontier. This is a list of characters from the anime series Macross Frontier.[1] Main characters[edit] Alto Saotome (早乙女アルト Saotome Aruto?) Voiced by: Yuuichi Nakamura • Age: 17 → 18, male. A high school student in the Mihoshi Academy Pilot Training course. As a result of his fine features and long hair he is often mistaken for a girl at first glance, even receiving the nickname 'Hime' (Princess).[2] His appearance was revealed to have been inherited from his late mother, Miyo. Despite this, he is otherwise a rather normal, though somewhat aloof and standoffish, boy.[2] Born into a well-known Kabuki family, his persistent yearning for the skies has made for a thorny relationship with his father, who has disowned him.[2] He constantly frets about living aboard Macross Frontier due to the lack of a true 'sky'. After getting the chance to pilot the VF-25 Messiah variable fighter (due to its original pilot, Henry Gilliam, being killed by a large type Vajra in the first episode) his flying skills draw the attention of Ozma Lee, who accepts him as a candidate for the S.M.S. Skull Squadron.[2] When S.M.S. grows suspicious of Leon and break away from the Frontier fleet, Alto remains as one of the few S.M.S. members who stay behind on Frontier. He later joins the N.U.N.S. forces and is assigned to the 4th Fighter Wing as squad leader (3 fighters) with call sign Sagittarius-1. As a result, he is given a new VF-171EX variable fighter. After being told by Leon Mishima that Ranka may become a tool for the Vajra in their war against humanity, Alto vows to kill her if necessary to save the Macross Frontier fleet. He is presumed dead after his VF-171EX is destroyed by Brera Sterne's VF-27 during the initial stages of the final battle between the Macross Frontier fleet and the Vajra. However, Alto reveals he had ejected from the VF-171EX before it was shot down. He resumes the fight in his original VF-25 Messiah, stopping Grace O'Connor with Michel's sniper rifle while being aided by Brera, who had broken free from Grace's control. As the Frontier fleet lands on the Vajra home planet, he ejects from his damaged VF-25 in his EX-Gear, giving the fighter a final salute as he fulfills his dream of flying in a real sky. He is last shown flying over Ranka and Sheryl at the Vajra planet. As part of the 25th Anniversary Tribute, Alto is shown mimicking scenes from the previous Macross series: • The scene where Alto saves Ranka for the first time is a nod to when Hikaru Ichijyo rescues Lynn Minmay. • While controlling his VF-25 in slave mode, he uses the same flying hand motion as Isamu Alva Dyson. • His salute to both girls in the final episode is a nod to a similar scene in The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?. • When his fighter is rising to the surface to be launched, that scene and the one in which Alto raises his head is very similar to those shown in the opening of the original Macross when Hikaru and his Valkyrie rise to the surface. Ranka Lee (ランカ・リー Ranka Rī?) Voiced by: Megumi Nakajima Sheryl Nome (シェリル・ノーム Sheriru Nōmu?) Voiced by: Aya Endou, singing voice: May'n • Age: 17 Known as the "Galactic Fairy", Sheryl Nome is a pop idol from Macross Galaxy fleet who constantly tops music charts, leading people to say that it was impossible not to hear her songs if you lived in this galaxy.[5] As such, her popularity was soaring just as high in the Galaxy's sister fleet, Macross Frontier. Due to her beauty and singing talent, she is a very proud and self-assured person.[5] Sheryl recognizes the singing talent of Ranka Lee and often offers to help her 'behind the scenes' to realize her dream of singing. Sheryl's first encounter with Alto Saotome occurs when he serves as a backup 'performer' at her first concert in Frontier. It is later revealed that Sheryl is apparently a failed experimental subject called Fairy 9 and is "discarded" by Grace O'Connor on Galia 4, the latter stating that she had outlived her usefulness. However, Sheryl survives and makes her way back to Frontier together with Michael in his VF-25G. Confronting Grace O'Connor for sabotaging her career, she is reminded that she used to be an anonymous and homeless orphan girl living in Galaxy's slums, where Grace picked her up for the Fairy 9 project. Grace also reveals that Sheryl is suffering from a terminal "V-Type" infection and will soon die in the absence of a cure. Crushed by the revelation, she almost quits singing altogether if not for Alto's encouragement and the desperation brought on by a vicious Vajra assault on Frontier. While Sheryl is singing for a charity concert, Luca Angelloni discovers that her infection gives her similar abilities to those of Ranka Lee in producing fold waves through her singing, albeit to a lesser extent. Leon's administration immediately seeks her help, instantly resurrecting her singing career for the final assault against the Vajra. A letter and photograph written by Mao Nome's daughter is found by Cathy Glass in the remains of the 117th Research and Exploration Fleet and confirms Sheryl Nome is in fact Dr. Mao Nome's biological granddaughter, her fold quartz earrings inherited from Mao. The series hints that her mother fell on hard times shortly after the death of her grandmother. During the final battle, Ranka Lee cures Sheryl's infection by sending the "V-Type" microbes from her brain into her abdomen, resulting in Sheryl having the same capability as Ranka to link up with the Vajra through singing. Sheryl joins Ranka in rallying the Vajra to side with the Frontier fleet and defeat Grace. The prequel manga reveals that her parents were residents of the Macross Galaxy who were opposed to mandatory cybernetic implants by the government and were ordered to be either executed or captured by the authorities under the cause of treason. Her parents were both killed for their resistance and Sheryl spend a part of childhood living in poverty until she met Grace O'Connor, during that time she met Lylith Amagi, the daughter of the Amagi family who competed with the Saotome family as famous Kabuki actors, but was disowned after her father's second wife gave birth to a son. Like many disowned children of the aristocracy, Lylith was enrolled into Erato Academy, where she taught Sheryl that she must stop burdening her natural talent with feelings of sorrow as they affected her singing skills. During a major audition for the lead role in an upcoming musical, Sheryl's singing abilities attracts Vajra, which Grace took a notice to. Lylith sacrificed herself to save Sheryl, telling Sheryl that her songs must convey feelings to others; Sheryl promises to Lylith and her parents that she will be the best singer in the galaxy. During her time as a student in Erato, Sheryl unwittingly met Alto Saotome as a Kabuki actor on stage, making their destiny entwined since then.[6] Mihoshi Academy[edit] Mikhail "Michael/Michel" Blanc (ミハエル・ブラン Mihaeru Buran?) Voiced by: Hiroshi Kamiya Michael is also one of the most observant characters, noticing the love triangle between Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl as well as catching on to Grace's insidious plot behind the scenes. He is a childhood friend of Klan Clang and have liked her for a long time, although it is not clear whether he knows that their feelings are mutual. He chose to hide his feelings regardless, since he believes that as a soldier who always has to put his life on the line, confessing such feelings would only bring pain. He nonetheless reciprocated after Klan eventually confessed to him, only to be stabbed by a stage 2 Vajra later while saving her from a Vajra assault in the S.M.S. micronization/macronization chamber, after which his body is sucked into space via a hole and is never found.[8] His VF-25G is eventually piloted by a micronized Klan, and its sniper rifle is used by Alto to destroy Grace, thus ending the conflict with the Vajra. Luca Angelloni (ルカ・アンジェローニ Ruka Anjerōni?) Voiced by: Jun Fukuyama Alto and Michael's junior classmate. He is often frustrated with his seniors, who like to give him a hard time.[9] He is a genius with computers and military electronics.[9] As with Michael, he is a member of the S.M.S. Skull Squadron. He pilots a green RVF-25 (reconnaissance version). His fighter is custodied by three pet Ghost Drones (which he calls Shimon, Johanne and Petero, or Simon, John and Peter) that respond to his verbal commands. He is also the heir to the L.A.I. corporation, which means he has access to exotic, prototype technologies and is somewhat involved in Grace and Leon's plans. It is also strongly hinted that he has a crush on his classmate Nanase Matsuura. After Nanase is injured and Michael is killed due to the Vajra attack inside the Frontier, Luca, together with Alto, joins New U.N. Space forces as part of the 4th Fighter Wing and vows to destroy the Vajra. He flies the new Recon version of the VF-171EX until the final battle with the Vajra, when he switches to his original RVF-25 and with Klan Clang tows Alto's VF-25 to him. During the final battle, Luca disengages the A.I. limiters on his Ghost drones to counter Macross Galaxy's V-9 Ghost attack drones. While the drones are eventually destroyed, they succeed in covering Alto to complete the mission. After the fleet lands on the Vajra homeworld, he is seen rushing to Nanase Matsuura bedside as she awakens from her injuries. Nanase Matsuura (松浦ナナセ Matsuura Nanase?) Voiced by: Hōko Kuwashima Another classmate of Alto, Michael and Luca, Nanase is also Ranka Lee's friend.[10] A shy, quiet and voluptuous girl with glasses, she also works in the same "Nyan-Nyan" restaurant as Ranka and supports her dream of becoming a singer.[10] Nanase is a skilled artist and was hired by Grace to become Ranka's costume designer. She is severely wounded in her right eye and other parts of her body during a Vajra attack inside Macross Frontier. Sheryl Nome takes her into a shelter for medical attention, thus saving her life. However, due to the injuries she goes into a coma and did not reawaken until the Frontier fleet lands on the Vajra homeworld. Private Military Provider S.M.S. (Strategic Military Services)[edit] Ozma Lee (オズマ・リー Ozuma Rī?) Voiced by: Katsuyuki Konishi The middle-aged top ace in the S.M.S. private military company and leader of Skull Squadron, he holds the rank of Major and is an experienced former N.U.N.S. pilot.[11] He is an avid fan of Fire Bomber and often plays their songs in his car or while at home, and also names Skull Squadron's battle formations after their songs (i.e., "Planet Dance", "Totsugeki Love Heart"). Although laid-back, short-tempered, and careless on the outside, he knows when to be serious, and believes that the real duty of a soldier is to care for his subordinates and civilians, thus making him more reliable than he actually looks. He is somewhat overprotective of his "sister" (legally, his adopted daughter) Ranka Lee, and lies to her about his work so she will not worry about him, telling her he has a desk job in a company's personnel department.[11] He is actually unrelated to Ranka by blood and is only her adopted brother, constantly blaming himself for failing to protect her family during a Vajra attack on the 117th Large Scale Research Fleet eleven years ago. He also had a prior romantic relationship with NUNS 2nd Lt. Catherine "Cathy" Glass sometime in the past, which makes their current working relationship on Macross Quarter a little tense at times. Like Cathy Glass, Ozma had grown suspicious of Leon Mishima's intentions and confronted him only to be arrested by his men. However, he and Cathy escape and find the body of president Howard Glass after Leon had him killed inside Battle Frontier. He and Cathy are found by Bobby and return to the Macross Quarter to tell the truth about Howard Glass' death. Ozma learns that Ranka has left the Frontier fleet to recover her memories and decides that he must also choose his own path. When S.M.S. resorts to piracy and separates from the Frontier fleet in the Macross Quarter, Ozma battles Alto and, before joining the Macross Quarter in its fold jump, tells Alto (whom he has many misgiving due to Alto's at-times rebellious piloting behavior) that he has improved and reminds him to choose his own path. He was one of the primary investigators at Galia 4, where the Macross Quarter uncovers the truth behind the Vajra and the corrupted factions in both the Galaxy and Frontier fleets. After Macross Quarter rendezvous with the Frontier fleet during the final battle, he joins the fray and fires nuclear missiles at Grace. However, the missiles prove ineffective against Grace, who having compromised the Vajra queen now wields an impenetrable super-dimension energy shield. Eventually he manages to cover Alto so he can defeat Grace. In the closing scene, he is seen to be back with Cathy as the Frontier fleet settles on the Vajra home planet. He drives a Lancia Delta. Ozma Lee shares many characteristics with Roy Focker from the original Macross series. In episode 17, Ozma is seriously wounded after a fierce battle with the Vajra, but conceals his wounds while watching Ranka's debut concert with Cathy until he loses consciousness from severe blood loss. However, unlike Focker, who died in episode 18 of the original series due to a similar injury, Ozma is rushed to the hospital, where he survives. Both characters even make references to pineapple-based desserts in their situations (salad for Focker; cake for Ozma). Canaria Berstein (カナリア・ベルシュタイン Kanaria Berushutain?) Voiced by: Hōko Kuwashima The middle-aged First lieutenant in the S.M.S. and the pilot of Skull Team's VB-6 König Monster variable bomber.[12] Although she rarely speaks, when she does her words have great weight and she often advises Ozma.[12] Canaria also serves as a military medic for S.M.S.[12] She is married and has a young son named Eddie. Canaria leaves them at Frontier after departing with Ozma and the rest of the S.M.S. deserters. During the climatic battle against the Vajra she flies her VB-6 König Monster into the flight deck of Battle Galaxy and fires with the rail cannons and missiles at its bridge, blinding the enemy ship long enough for the Macross Quarter to destroy its Macross Cannon and enabling the Battle Frontier to destroy the Battle Galaxy ship by itself. Klan Klang (クラン・クラン Kuran Kuran?)[13] Voiced by: Megumi Toyoguchi A blue-haired, stern-looking, but well-endowed Zentradi female (Meltran) who is the commander of the all-female S.M.S. Pixie Squadron (which consists of herself and two subordinates). Klan has the rank of captain.[14] Klan is a childhood friend of Michael Blanc and harbors a crush on him that does not seem to be reciprocated. She is an ace Queadluun-Reapower-armor pilot.[14] Due to a genetic anomaly when she is micronized she physically appears to be a child.[14] This makes her the perfect target for Michael's mockery.[14] In episode 20 Diamond Crevasse[15] Klan finally reveals her love to Michael in the heat of battle, only to watch helplessly from the macronization chamber as he is mortally wounded trying to protect her. Michael's last words are a declaration of his love for her and an apology for waiting to tell her until it was too late. When the Macross Quarter deserts the Frontier fleet, Klan is one of those who stay behind, saluting the ship as it launches past her. During the final battle, her Quaedluun-Rea is critically damaged by Brera Sterne, but she springs back into action in Michael's VF-25G while in micronized form, trumping her sniping skills. In the climatic confrontation with Grace, her VF is damaged while covering Alto, so she entrusts him with Michael's sniper rifle. Alto uses the weapon to deliver the kill shot at Grace. Nene Rora (ネネ・ローラ Nene Rōra?) Voiced by: Aya Hirano A tall (by Zentradi standards) pink-haired Meltran who is part of the all-female S.M.S. Pixie Squadron.[16] A calm, gentle and kind character.[16] Raramia Rerenia (ララミア・レレニア?) A red-haired boyish-looking Meltran with an intense gaze who is part of the all-female S.M.S. Pixie Squadron.[17] She never spoke once during the entire series and was never seen again after her Queadluun-Rea power-armor received a direct hit during battle with the Vajra in Episode 14, presumed to be killed in action. Jeffrey Wilder (ジェフリー・ワイルダー Jefurī Wairudā?) Voiced by: Tōru Ōkawa Captain of SMS Macross Quarter, and S.M.S.'s de facto field commander.[18] A colonel in the S.M.S. ranks, he used to be a pilot in an U.N. Forces aircraft carrier early on his career.[18] A seasoned veteran, he has a beard and a horizontal scar across his face as proof of his previous combat experience. Though a very polite officer, he can become highly mischievous when the situation requires it.[18] It is mentioned that he lost his wife some time ago. When he receives an order from Richard Bilrer that the S.M.S. would be disbanded and then reincorporated into the N.U.N.S. (just as he learned the truth regarding President Glass' death from Cathy and Ozma) Wilder declares that the S.M.S. are now pirates instead of soldiers and successfully convinces the other S.M.S. members (excluding Clan, Nene, Alto and Luca among some others) to join them. He then commands the Macross Quarter to detach itself from the Frontier and go into a fold jump. After he and his crew investigated the truth behind the Vajra attacks by reviewing the evidence from the wrecks of the 117th fleet, he realizes that Grace O'Connor plans to force humanity into becoming like the Vajra living in a linked mind network with O'Connor as its Queen. Now with knowledge of the truth behind the conflict Wilder filed a report to the government on Earth and took his ship to the Vajra home planet to help stop the conflict between humanity and the aliens. He also asks Monica Lange if she will stand with him when they go to confront Leon and the Vajra, showing that he knew her feelings for him and that he shared them too. Captain Wilder brings Macross Quarter back to the Vajra homeworld and presents evidence of Leon's involvement in the assassination of President Glass and his working with the true enemy, the co-conspirators from Macross Galaxy fleet. He and his crew are victorious in defending Battle Frontier. Both his ship and Battle Frontier confront Macross Galaxy's flagship, Battle Galaxy and destroy it. He is later seen on the surface of the Vajra planet with the rest of the bridge crew and with Monica at his side. Bobby Margot (ボビー・マルゴ Bobī Marugo?) Voiced by: Kenta Miyake Highly skilled helmsman of the S.M.S. mothership, SMS Macross Quarter.[19] Somewhat stern in appearance, he is "just like a girl inside", as he often says.[19] He was a hair stylist as well as a make-up artist, somewhere in the past.[19] He is well liked by female crew members for his good understanding of others. He is an open homosexual and has not-so subtle feelings for Ozma, though he understands well that Ozma will never reciprocate and he is content with just having feelings for him. Apparently very effeminate, calm and soft-spoken when not fighting, he will become quite serious, daring and aggressive during combat, or when he needs to scare or threaten others. Monica Lange (モニカ・ラング Monika Rangu?) Voiced by: Rie Tanaka One of the bridge operators of SMS Macross Quarter.[20] In charge of the main search radar and chief of the main operator group, she has a serious leader personality type.[20] It was revealed later that she is enamoured with Captain Wilder, who eventually reciprocated her feelings in episode 24. Mina Roshan (ミーナ・ローシャン Mīna Rōshan?) Voiced by: Aya Hirano One of the bridge operators of SMS Macross Quarter. Currently in charge of internal warship status management.[21] Despite having an IQ of 180, she sometimes has trouble adjusting to the pace of her fellow teammates[21] and is proud of her high level of intelligence.[21] Mina is also of Indian ancestry. Ram Hoa (ラム・ホア Ramu Hoa?) Voiced by: Kaori Fukuhara One of the bridge operators of SMS Macross Quarter. In charge of communication and main weapons control.[22] A woman of not too many words that tends to classify everything that she comes into contact on a regular basis.[22] Henry Gilliam (ヘンリー・ギリアム Henrī Giriamu?) Voiced by: Takashi Ōhara A tough pilot in the S.M.S. Skull Team and Ozma Lee's second in command. He lost his life in Episode 01 while defending the Macross Frontier fleet in the first Vajra attack of 2059.[23] His VF-25 Messiah variable fighter is now piloted by Alto. Richard Bilrer (リチャード・ビルラー Richādo Birurā?) Voiced by: Tadashi Miyazawa The mysterious macronized Zentradi owner of the S.M.S. Private Military Provider Company. Has multiple artificial implants in his body and some of them enable him to receive telephone calls directly into his left ear. As shown in Episodes 14 and 15, Bilrer is a model train otaku and dreams of connecting the whole galaxy using the mysterious fold quartz obtained from the Vajra. It was revealed during the final episode of the series that he has a picture of the long lost celebrity Lynn Minmay inside the fold quartz in his ring and that he intended to meet her again using the Vajra's fold communication network.[24] S.M.S. member who was killed by the Vajra during their assault into the S.M.S. macronization chambers in Episode 20. Alto and his friends find her body while escaping from the enemy.[8] New United Nations Military[edit] Catherine Glass (キャサリン・グラス Kyasarin Gurasu?) Voiced by: Sanae Kobayashi • Age: 23 A N.U.N.S. General Staff second lieutenant attached to the Macross Frontier, she is also the daughter of President Howard Glass.[25] Both beautiful and intelligent, Catherine (or "Cathy" as she is commonly known) is revealed to be a former Miss Macross winner, and later goes on to serve on the judging panel in the 2059 contest. After having graduated from university with honors, she joined NUNS and is being fast-tracked into the elite.[25] Though a very competent officer, she sometimes lacks flexibility.[25] She has a relationship with Leon Mishima without her father's knowledge and was formerly in a relationship with Ozma Lee before that. Catherine becomes part of the SMS Macross Quarter crew during a mission to rescue the Macross Galaxy fleet from the Vajra. Like Ozma, she has grown suspicious of Leon's intentions and confronts him, only to be arrested by his men. However, she and Ozma escape and find the body of her father after Leon had him killed at the gangway of Battle Frontier. Later, they return to the Macross Quarter after being found by Bobby, and they tell everyone of the truth about President Glass’s death. She later joins the Macross Quarter crew into exile to investigate the truth and participates in the final battle. During the course of events of her investigation, before and after the exile from Frontier, Cathy's feelings for Ozma return. When the Frontier fleet settles on the Vajra home planet, she is seen to be back at Ozma Lee's side looking on the new homeworld. Howard Glass (ハワード・グラス Hawādo Gurasu?) Voiced by: Tomomichi Nishimura The fourth elected president of the New United Nations Government and also the administrative director of the Macross Frontier fleet.[26] His administration was responsible for the creation of the Frontier colony fleet.[26] As president, he shoulders all political decisions to ensure the security and well-being of his citizens.[26] He is also Cathy's father.[26] Glass dies in episode 20 after being gunned down (as well as his two personal bodyguards) en route to the Battle Frontier bridge by Leon Mishima's men.[8] Leon Mishima (レオン・三島 Reon Mishima?) Voiced by: Tomokazu Sugita The President's aide and Chief of Staff.[27] An ever calm and composed man, Mishima is President Glass' close associate.[27] He is a savvy political operator and begins the series engaged to Cathy Glass.[27] He knows far more about the Vajra than it seems and apparently is working in secret with Grace O'Connor. In episode 15, it is revealed that he also helped Grace to lure the Vajra to Frontier. He assigns Brera Sterne, a cyborg, as Ranka's personal bodyguard. Ozma and Cathy confront him on his planned "Coup d'état", but Mishima tells that them that they are too late as he already has a sniper targeting Glass. However, the sniper is killed during a Vajra attack, and Glass escapes. Eventually Mishima succeeds and the president is ambushed and shot to death inside Battle Frontier, which gives Reon total control of practically all N.U.N.S. forces in the Frontier fleet. After this, he becomes the fifth president of the Frontier government. Mishima also double-crosses O'Connor by ordering her assassination, but she easily kills his men and escapes from Frontier. Later, Mishima reveals to Alto the findings about Vajra and surprises him by stating that Ranka is assisting the Vajra in destroying humanity. He also declares to Macross Frontier's population that they have only three months of oxygen left to sustain themselves and that the only way they can survive is to annihilate the Vajra and claim their planet as their new homeworld. During the final battle with the Vajra, the Macross Quarter returns from exile and saves the Battle Frontier from a Vajra fleet attack. Then Captain Wilder reveals to N.U.N.S. officials that Mishima was behind the Vajra attacks as well as the murder of Glass, leading to his immediate arrest by his own guards. Machida (マキー Mashīda?) N.U.N.S. VF-171 pilot from the Macross Frontier fleet. Captain Wilen (ウィラン大尉 Wiran-taii?) Voiced by: Daisuke Matsuo N.U.N.S. pilot from the Macross Galaxy fleet. He reports to the Macross Frontier headquarters that his fleet is under attack by a large horde of Vajra. Jessica Blanc (ジェシカ・ブラン Jessica Brancu?) Michel Blanc's older sister and a friend of Klan. Jessica took care of Michel after their parents died and the two were very close. She was a N.U.N.S. pilot and a sniper. Jessica was court martialed after she accidentally shot and killed her superior officer. Because Jessica was having an affair with the officer and the couple had just broken up she was found guilty. Some time later Jessica committed suicide. Major Ohgotwhai Macronized Zentradi leader of the N.U.N.S. 33rd Naval/Marine Fleet stationed in planet Galia 4. He and his forces help Alto fight rogue Commander Tehmzin's mutiny and rescue Sheryl. The character's name and design are very similar to those of Zentradi Commander Vrlitwhai from The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? animated movie. Major Ohgotwhai's Advisor Unnamed macronized Zentradi advisor of the N.U.N.S. 33rd Naval/Marine Fleet stationed in planet Galia 4.[28] Dies during the "Dimension Eater" explosion when the Assault Module of the Queadol-Magdomilla Class Fleet Command Battleship is destroyed.[29][30] The character's design is very similar to that of Zentradi advisor Exsedol Folmo from The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? animated movie. Tehmzin (テムジン Temujin?) Voiced by: Jun Konno Macronized Zentradi soldier of the N.U.N.S. 33rd Naval/Marine Fleet stationed in planet Galia 4. He is the leader of a rebel faction disgruntled with the peace between Zentradi and humans, and longs to restart the war and reassert Zentradi dominance in the galaxy. Shortly after Sheryl's entourage lands on Galia 4, Tehmzin's faction takes the entire regiment and the entourage hostage when Sheryl falls ill. Alto Saotome defeats him in battle after the arrival of Michael and Ranka. The character's name and design were similar to those of Zentradi Commander Quamzin from The Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series. However, the Japanese pronunciation is identical to the name Temujin, one of the titles of Genghis Khan. Grace O'Connor (グレイス・オコナー Gureisu Okonā?) Voiced by: Kikuko Inoue The series' main antagonist, Grace O'Connor first appears as Sheryl's manager from the Galaxy Fleet and as a person with a gentle and calm attitude.[31] She seems to often upset her employer despite having considerable abilities.[31] O'Connor also has cybernetic implants that allow her to directly interface with any computer terminal. She also appears to be secretly working with the cyborg pilot Brera Sterne as his superior. In the 13th episode, it is revealed that O'Connor is a cyborg as well, as she unleashes from her arm a series of conduits to activate a weapon of mass destruction called a "Dimension Eater." She apparently perishes in the ensuing fold dislocation, calmly wishing everyone from the Macross Frontier fleet good luck before the Dimension Eater engulfs her and then almost half of the planet of Galia IV, triggering a large scale Vajra attack on the Frontier fleet in the process and destroying the N.U.N.S. 33rd Naval/Marine fleet base on the planet surface. It is revealed later that O'Connor uploaded her mind into another cyborg body. Returning to Macross Frontier, she picks up Ranka and becomes her manager. Back in 2047, O'Connor was a scientist in the 117th Long Distance Research Fleet and worked in Dr. Mao Nome's team, surviving the destruction of the fleet during the Vajra attack a year later. It is believed she is chief suspect of causing the destruction of the fleet. In 2053, she continued the research on the V-Type infection in Galaxy Fleet, using Sheryl Nome as the test subject and manufacturing Sheryl's entire idol status for her purposes. O'Connor is later betrayed by Leon Mishima, who orders her assassination, but she single-handedly kills Mishima's men and escapes from Frontier in her own VF-27 variable fighter. She eventually rendezvous with Brera and reveals to him that Ranka is his sister, but immediately activates his slave mode forcing him to follow her orders. Afterward, she discovers the location of the main Vajra Queen and merges her cybernetic body with it. Eventually she manages to compromise the Vajra fold communication network by manipulating Ranka and sending the Vajra against the Macross Frontier fleet during their final battle. O'Connor and her cyberlinked fellow conspirators from Galaxy fleet merge with the Vajra network, gaining total control over them, while she declares that they do not need "Little Queen" Ranka anymore, as they feel the power of controlling the Vajra's galactic scale "Body". Her ultimate plan was to kill all the humans who would not submit to her and have fold crystals embedded in the others so they could be completely under her control, since nothing in the N.U.N.S. arsenal would have been able to withstand the might of the Vajra's interdimensional abilities in a galactic scale conquest. She becomes power-mad once fully linked to the network and declares war against anyone who opposes her, sending compromised Vajra war fleets to Human/Zentradi colony fleets and even to Macross City on Earth. In the end, Ranka and Sheryl's songs release the Vajra from her control and she is soundly defeated by the combined Vajra, S.M.S. and Macross Frontier fleet forces. O'Connor is killed by Alto with Michel's VF-25G sniper rifle.[24] Brera Sterne (ブレラ・スターン Burera Sutān?) Voiced by: Sōichirō Hoshi • Age: 19 Also known as Brera Mei (ブレラ・メイ Burera Mei?), he is the mysterious pilot of the crimson VF-27 variable fighter that Alto Saotome encounters for the first time inside a Vajra carrier.[32] Brera seems to know how to play the first part of Ranka's song "Aimo" using his harmonica, claiming that the song is the only fragment of his past he still has after memory modification. After saving Ranka from a wild beast attack, the injuries Brera sustains reveal that he is also a cyborg.[32] He harbors a great deal of concern for Ranka's well-being, but does not exactly know why.[32] A picture discovered by Alto inside the Macross Class SDF Global reveals that Brera had some kind of connection to Ranka before becoming a cyborg. It is eventually revealed that he is a Major in the Galaxy Fleet Antares Squadron. He becomes Ranka's bodyguard and also likes to listen to her songs, describing the feeling he gets from her songs as being enveloped in a universe that accepts him instead of rejecting him. Brera assists Ranka into delivering her stage 2 Vajra pet "Ai-kun" to the rest of its species. Some time later, he and Ranka find the planet of origin of the Vajra. Grace O'Connor reveals to Brera that Ranka is his younger sister, but then she activates his slave mode forcing him to follow her orders. During the final battle, O'Connor makes Brera help the Vajra by destroying Alto's VF-171EX. The explosion of a Vajra carrier nearby shatters Brera's slave circuit implant, thus freeing him from O'Connor's control. He proceeds to encourage Ranka to fight O'Connor's influence and eventually teams up with Alto and covers him while Alto defeats O'Connor in the end. Ai-kun (愛くん Ai-kun?) A cute-looking animal that first appears from out of nowhere at the Formo Mall while Ranka is promoting her debut album, and then at Mihoshi Academy, running away from Sheryl and the rest of the school after having wrapped itself in Sheryl's panties. It is later on adopted by Ranka, who first discovers it at Griffith Park in Frontier City. Because it is illegal to keep unknown animals from newly contacted planets as pets (in cases where they may bear pathogens, or disrupt the delicate ecological balance of a colony ship), Ranka keeps Ai-kun in secrecy. One day, prior to Ranka's debut concert, Ai-kun disappears, and Ranka has her friend Nanase look for it. Asking for assistance, Nanase shows Luca an illustration of Ai-kun, which he later on identifies as a Vajra larvae. During the concert, Ai-kun undergoes a transformation and upon reuniting with Ranka, molts into a stage 2 Vajra. Ranka and Brera take Ai-kun and leave Island 1 to deliver it to the Vajra home planet. Ranzou Saotome (早乙女嵐蔵 Saotome Ranzō?) Voiced by: Kenta Miyake Alto's father and the 18th sōke of the Saotome family of. A very strict man, he has trained his son harshly in the art of kabuki since youth which has resulted in their current estranged relationship. However, after a close brush with death, Ranzou is willing to make amends with Alto and officially name him successor to the Saotome family. Miyo Saotome (早乙女美代 Saotome Miyo?) Alto's mother, who died when Alto was twelve. A considerable beauty, Alto inherited her good looks and has a strong resemblance to her. She often spoke of flying in the sky, which inspired Alto to become a pilot for the sake of flying in a true sky. Yasaburou Saotome (早乙女矢三郎 Saotome Yasaburō?) Voiced by: Hirofumi Nojima A senior apprentice to Alto's father, Alto regards Yasaburou as his older brother since he is a student of the Saotome family, though he is not a blood relation. Despite his mild-mannered and kind appearance, he is a stubborn and persistent person, making multiple attempts to convince Alto to return to his father and become the rightful heir to the Saotome family. While he is talented kabuki actor and seen as the potential successor to Ranzou, Yasaburou feels that Alto is denying his talent as a kabuki actor and is running away from his true calling, believing that Alto is only going through a phase as a pilot and will evidentably return to kabuki. Elmo Kridanik (エルモ・クリダニク Erumo Kuridaniku?) Voiced by: Tōru Ōkawa The micronized Zentradi president and manager of the small talent agency "Vector Productions".[33] He hears Ranka's singing by chance and scouts her, becoming her manager.[33] However, after Leon Mishima realizes that Ranka's singing has an effect on the Vajra he assigns Grace O'Connor as her new manager, forcing Elmo away from her. He is seen taking shelter in the same bunker as Sheryl and watching her sing during a Vajra attack. Elmo becomes Sheryl's new manager some time later. A comment made by him when asking Ozma Lee's permission to become Ranka's manager suggests that he is a Space War I veteran. George Yamamori (ジョージ・山森 Jōji Yamamori?) Voiced by: Tōru Ōkawa The director of the Bird Human film, who gave Ranka the part of Mao Nome after the original actress was wounded during a car accident caused by a wild beast attack. This launches Ranka's musical career into stardom. Yamamori's physical appearance was based on that of series director and creator Shoji Kawamori, and his name is also a phonetic play on the director's name as well. Miranda Merin (ミランダ・メリン Miranda Merin?) Voiced by: Rie Tanaka The self-conceited winner of the current Miss Macross Frontier contest, Miranda plays Mayan priestess Sara Nome in the recent Bird Human film. She appears to be a descendant of (as she shares her last name with) a similarly conceited character (Jamis Merin/ジャミス・メリン) from the original Macross TV series, who also competed in the first Miss Macross contest. Screenshot depicting Mao Nome as seen in 2047 A.D. Dr. Mao Nome (Dr. マオ・ノーム Dokutā Mao Nōmu?) The Mayan sister of Sara Nome, who was also involved in the events of Macross Zero. Ozma Lee apparently knew her. In 2047, she was a scientist with a background researching Protoculture Civilization. "Dr. Mao" (as she is referred to the series) headed a project on board the 117th Long Distance Research Fleet to manage and prevent a Vajra-related disease (the V-Type infection) with Grace O'Connor and Ranshe Mei as her assistants. Dr. Mao is eventually revealed to have a granddaughter, who inherited her fold quartz earrings and is believed to be Sheryl Nome. She is presumed to have been killed during the destruction of the 117th fleet by the Vajra. Ranshe Mei (蘭雪美 Ranshe Mei?, pinyin: Lánxuě Měi) Voiced by: Maaya Sakamoto Ranka Lee and Brera Sterne's mother, who was a leading scientist in the 117th Long Distance Research Fleet and worked in Dr. Mao's team in 2047. Ranshe was strongly opposed to O'Connor's plan to sacrifice the Vajra in order to control their fold communication network. She later appeared to Ranka in a vision when she was held captive inside a Vajra mothership. Like Sheryl Nome, Ranshe was also infected with the "V-Type" infection; since Ranka was conceived and carried to term while her mother was infected, Ranka was born with permanent immunity to the otherwise lethal infection. Ranshe is presumed to have been killed during the destruction of the 117th fleet by the Vajra. 1. ^ Macross F Cast List 0! 2. ^ a b c d "Alto Saotome". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-21. 3. ^ Macross Frontier (TV Series). Macross Frontier Official Site. Story Section. Story List. Episode 04. 04-24-08 4. ^ a b c "Ranka Lee". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-20. 5. ^ a b "Sheryl Nome". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-21. 6. ^ Macross Frontier - Galaxy Memory CD Drama 7. ^ a b "Mikhail "Michael/Michel" Blanc". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-21. 8. ^ a b c Macross Frontier (TV Series). Macross Frontier Official Site. Story Section. Story List. Episode 20. 08-21-08 9. ^ a b "Luca Angelloni". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 10. ^ a b "Nanase Matsuura". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 11. ^ a b "Ozma Lee". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 12. ^ a b c "Canaria Berstein". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 13. ^ Official Romanization of クラン・クラン (Klan Cang) Retrieved on 07-02-09. 14. ^ a b c d "Clan Clang". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 15. ^ Official Romanization of クラン・クラン 16. ^ a b "Nene Rora". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 17. ^ "Raramia Rerenia". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 18. ^ a b c "Jeffrey Wilder". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 19. ^ a b c "Bobby Margot". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 20. ^ a b "Monica Lange". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 21. ^ a b c "Mina Roshan". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 22. ^ a b "Ram Hoa". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 23. ^ Macross Frontier (TV Series). Macross Frontier Official Site. Story Section. Story List. Episode 01. 04-03-08 24. ^ a b Macross Frontier (TV Series). Macross Frontier Official Site. Story Section. Story List. Episode 25. 09-25-08 25. ^ a b c "Catherine Glass". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 26. ^ a b c d "Howard Glass". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 27. ^ a b c "Leon Mishima". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 28. ^ Macross Frontier (TV Series). Macross Frontier Official Site. Story Section. Story List. Episode 12. 06-26-08 29. ^ Mechanic of Macross: Queadol-Magdomilla XXVII. Page 180. Macross Perfect Memory. Reference Book. 260 A4 pages. Minori Library, Japan. Y2800. 1983, October 10. 30. ^ Macross Frontier (TV Series). Macross Frontier Official Site. Story Section. Story List. Episode 13. 07-03-08 31. ^ a b "Grace O'Connor". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 32. ^ a b c "Brera Sterne". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23. 33. ^ a b "Elmo Kridanik". Official Macross Frontier Page: Character Section. Mainichi Broadcasting System. December 2007. Retrieved 2009-04-23.	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheryl_Nome	<urn:uuid:a61045c9-5f93-4315-83b5-f54143f6a9a1>	en	0.959481	0.022812
Place Making In the book "1491" Charles C. Mann notes that much of what we think of as a wild and untamed Amazon Basin may have been in fact a kind of human managed park. That people can 'make places' in the large scale; deeply reshape entire landscapes is surprising. I hadn't thought of the real world as a 'wiki' but clearly the parallel of grooming our digital gardens could be applied to the real world as well. We often forget about the plasticity of the net, of communities and of the real world. Many of our mediums are two way; they shift in response to our actions within them. We do more than "report" or "comment" but actually "change" and we can choose to do so in an intentional way. This observation slightly set me off on a mad read through various texts including "1491" itself, "Blessed Unrest" by Paul Hawken, "Endgame" by Derrick Jensen, "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan, "The Pathless Way" which is a reading on John Muir by Michael Cohen and notably "Food not Lawns" by Heather Flores. In the following I am going to go on a random (and long!) walk through these books. Here is a flickr picture of the cluster, more or less centered around "Blessed Unrest", "1491" and "Omnivore's Dilemma": There were also other sources that contribute to the thinking here that I should mention: 1) The term "place making" as practiced by Portland City Repair: 2) As well, due to my work at Meadan, I had a chance to talk to Luis Von Ahn about his 'human computation' approach. A summary of some of his work is presented here and is critical listening: 3) Jared Diamond's "Collapse" is a hidden gorilla in the discussion although the conclusions in this more recent round of books go in different directions. I mentioned "Collapse" earlier here: I apologize for the length and yet incompleteness of this rant. I simply have not had the time to make it more concise but I wanted to share the thoughts before they were completely obsolete, forgotten or lost. There are many holes in the arguments made, such as being more precise about the actual costs and feasibility of rewriting our landscapes underneath 300 million Americans (if we just speak about North America). I will begin with "1491". According to "1491" Pre-Columbian natives used a form of 'biosphere engineering' to bias the world in their favor; employing practices ranging from labor intensive mixed crop agriculture, to judicious use of fire. To cite a few comments: "Anthropologists now believe that the majority of the Amazon rain forest was managed by humans. There are many fruit and nut bearing trees in the Amazon, and this was probably due to human interference. They also used a unique form of burning in the Amazon, where they would stop the fields from completely burning so that there would be charcoal. Turns out the active carbon in charcoal bonds to organic elements and makes the soil as good or probably better than using fertilizer." "Amazon soil is poor, intense rain and heat of forest have eroded its surface, washed out all its minerals and decomposed vital organic compounds. As a result much of the red Amazonian soil is weathered, harshly acid, and almost bereft of essential nutrients - one reason ecologists refer to the tropical forest as a "wet desert". Most nutrients in tropical forests are stored not in the soil as in temperate regions, but in the vegetations that covers it." [ ] There were larger populations with technologies more varied than we may have formerly appreciated: "The idea that the Amazon is not an untouched wilderness but the product of extensive management by large human populations sharply contrasts with long-held views that the region was sparsely populated by tribal groups who peacefully coexisted with the apparently hostile environment that surrounded them. [There is] evidence of extensive civilizations in the region, most notably the human-enhanced floodplains in Bolivia, remnants of ancient towns and road systems and the presence of rich, apparently human-made soils [ called 'terra preta' ]. Scientists believe terra preta was created through a process one specialist calls the "slash-and-char" method. Essentially, instead of completely burning trees to ash, pre-Colombian farmers merely smoldered organic matter to form charcoal, and then stirred the charcoal into the soil." [ from ] We only recognize this view recently - looking at older texts the scientists are completely confused: "The origin of the Amazonian Dark Earths ['terra preta'] is not entirely clear and several conflicting theories were discussed in the past. Camargo (1941) speculated that these soils might have formed on fallout from volcanoes in the Andes, since they were only found on the highest spots in the landscape. Other theories included a formation as a result of sedimentation in Tertiary lakes (Falesi, 1974) or in recent ponds (Cunha-Franco, 1962)." [ from ] One early technology worth emphasis is the "Milpa": "A milpa is a field, usually but not always recently cleared, in which farmers plant a dozen crops at once including maize, avocados, multiple varieties of squash and bean, melon, tomatoes, chilis, sweet potato, jicama, amaranth and mucuna. In nature, wild beans and squash often grow in the same field as teosinte, the bean using the tall teosinthe as a ladder to climb towards the sun; below ground, the bean's nitrogen-fixing roots provide nutrients needed by teosinte. The milpa is an elaboration of this natural situation..." "The milpa in the estimation of H. Garrison Wilkes, a maize researcher at the University of Massachusetts in Boston 'is one of the most successful human inventions ever created'. In Europe and Asia farmers try to avoid stressing the soil by rotating crops; they may plant wheat one year, legumes the next, and let the field lie fallow in the year following. Then farmers use artificial fertilizer which at best is expensive and at worst may inflict long term damage on the soil. Nobody really knows how sustainable that is. The milpa by contrast has a long record of success. 'There are places in Mesoamerica that have been continuously cultivated for four thousand years and are still productive'" according to Wilkes. [ from '1491' page 221 in the 'Very Old Bones' chapter ] A Milpas can be thought of as the extreme utilization end of a managed forest in a sense. Kind of the ultimate wiki. A labour intensive mixed garden that is intensively and manually groomed for group reward. Diversity (presumably) confers some resistance to the vagaries of climate and disease. Beyond even this were technological practices that appeared modern and industrial in nature. Fish-weirs that cover 30,000 square miles, are visible from space (and may be the greatest building projects ever undertaken by humanity). I mentioned these in previous posts to geowanking. [ see ] [ and ] [ and which was feedback from their discoverer ] The same activities apply to North America. And this interests us because of our choices now about how we manage our land. To briefly draw a sketch of North American human habitation as I see it now (drawing the lines in between "1491" and other books): 13,000 or more years ago people begin to kayak and fish along the edge of the Bering Land Bridge. They arrive in Alaska in several waves. A small genetically isolated group of individuals eventually making it past glacial shield walls into North America proper. Populations boom and through mismanagement quickly kill off all the mega-fauna. Large populations also act as a well minimizing any genetic drift from newcomers. Post glacial mega-floods wipe away planetary early record of civilization. Lacking oil based industrial technology they eventually come into a balance with their natural world, using a kind of bio-technics. Fire is used to burn off underbrush, to drive bison and to create grassland. Bison in turn are encouraged to constantly migrate (again by use of fire) and this helps the health of grasslands. The eastern seaboard is planted with fruits and nuts. A sublime expertise and attention to the pattern of the life emerges out of ongoing use of life technology. Even their language becomes deeply inflected with their naturalist lore. Strategies employed included an ambitious and possibly conscious genetics program to define maize. Populations grow up to about 100 million; comparable to current populations in many ways. Huge civilizations rise. With the arrival of Europeans populations crash due to genocide and disease; about 98% of the natives dying off within 100 years. Low genetic diversity may have played a role in the effectiveness of disease [ as my friend Paige points out ]. With the top predator species removed the ecosystem oscillates out of balance; second rung species such as bison, carrier pigeons and salmon undergo huge population growth; forests become overgrown; forest fires rage. Europeans eventually sort things out. Most of the United States and Canada is turned over to production of corn, soybean and cattle. Twitter is invented, we all congratulate ourselves for wisely trawling away the bottom of the oceans and plan for our off-planet escape once the inevitable food-chain collapse begins. My overall sense is that using the technology of the time, bronze tools, fire, spears, early peoples around the world killed off everything they could, dominated the land to the extremes that they could, but eventually came into an equilibrium. Since they depend on life technologies more than us, they end up becoming part of the ecosystem and engaging in a symbiotic relationship with that ecosystem, grooming it to suit their needs, and possibly in turn being changed as well. The Americas still offer traces of a fabulous paleolithic record, one completely eradicated in Europe, and even almost invisible here due to the clash of two hugely unequal cultures aided by the the spread of germs. Omnivore's Dilemma In 'The Omnivore's Dilemma' Michael Pollan points out practical ways we can start to reclaim our environment. He talks about living in "local food" systems, to have "closed-loops" where all processes are fully transparent. In particular he talks about PolyFace Farms, a small farming operation that makes produce, milk, eggs, chicken and cattle and yet has no waste in a local and transparent process. They farm without pesticides or any external inputs other than sunlight and rain and at a higher total yield per acre than industrial farming practices: Effectively PolyFace Farms rejects the 'unrolled' farming practices; demonstrating how a 'closed-loop' farming practice can also be efficient. Historically farming was a form of solar power. Radiation was captured into forests, grasses and algae. Animals interacted with these landscapes in ways that plant life had evolved to deal with. Everything was local and there were no pesticides or food inputs required to keep the system going. Today farming is a form of oil power. Machines are used to bring in and distribute fertilizer and pesticides. Large quantities of mono-culture crops are grown (in a way that is easier for machines which lack human deftness to cut down at the end of the season). There tends to be runoff of excess fertilizer and this becomes a pollutant for rivers and streams. Animals are kept separately in feed-lots, often in their own waste. Antibiotics are required to keep animals healthy. Food has to be brought in. Waste has to be trucked out. Industrial farmers separate the inputs and outputs to forge a higher yield in one dimension even though they are really just juggling the environmental books. Modern farming is effectively a criminal form of total cost evasion that hurts everybody. It has impoverished farmers, driven many off the farms and to suicide, and fueled inefficient yet huge agri-business corporate machines that we will now have to shut down at some significant grief to us as a civilization. It's an example of a maxim that the side-effects of any intended action always dominate and drown out the original intent. Oddly I found a parallel to Neal Stephenson's brilliant work 'The Diamond Age' in an idea of the 'feed' versus the 'seed'. The feed represents an industrial delivery process, creating a dependency between consumers and producers, and the seed is a return to local consumption practices. Metaphorically one is a line, the other a circle. Linear 'unrolled systems', whose inputs and outputs are not connected to each other, benefit intermediary transporting agents or parasites. Closed-loop systems are more robust in that they protect communities from economic and environmental flux. Aside from yield it should also be pointed out that any practice affects language and perception. Polyface farms goes "beyond organic" and introduces a concept of "local food" as a measurement we should seek when choosing food. Polyface farms also appears more traditional, it appears more 'beautiful' and 'less inhumane' because it is more in line with the deeper meaning that our language has carried for us through industrialization. There is a measurement applied to slaughter - that of a "glass abattoir" - where processes are public, open and invite observation. This is a contrast to industrial farming where processes are so horrifying to our sensibilities that they must take place behind closed doors. If in fact Polyface farms goes bankrupt, and the only thing that survives is the one phrase "local food"; it may have been a success. Omnivore Thoughts Michael Pollan also posted something in the New York Times that you may find worthwhile. It didn't have nearly as much impact as his book on me (perhaps it was the digital medium): The question that arises out of his work was: what access to local foods do we have? How do we even shop locally? Most of us do the basics to make safe food choices. Scouring for recipes and ideas, going out of our way way to buy organic produce at Saturday Markets, cooking larger meals that last for days and freezing what is not used, making sure meals include salad and the like. But perhaps even more is needed. EcoTrust and other organizations here in Portland, Oregon do provide resources; and there is a network of local farmer delivered produce. So perhaps it is possible to have local food not just on a Saturday market day but on any day, and have good guaranteed quality and transparency on that food. EcoTrust also goes beyond just food and acts as an anchor for civil society projects such as those that "Blessed Unrest" speaks about. In fact they hosted the launch event for Paul Hawken's recent "Wiser Earth" project which is discussed later. [ see ] But even with local foods in hand - then what about making and preparing food? How does one even make food on an ongoing daily basis, day after day? For me I occasionally cook but there is always spoilage; I simply cannot buy efficiently in the quantities I want - and it is more of a gourmet experience than a cost saving and quality of life enhancing experience. Then too what about all of the little out-of-season treats and desserts we give ourselves as a reward? Do we give up those in favor of whatever the local market has in season? Clearly one has to start canning and planning a year in advance... and then this raises the question how much work does it really require to live locally? It all seems like a hassle. What may be needed is more of a community than just an individual atomized lifestyle. One has to be in an extended family network, and people have to specialize and trade off roles. Somebody cooks for everybody, somebody cans, somebody farms. Import some grandmas who remember how the hell to make food, throw in some farmers, find some families that want to live better. Find a few economists who can study the system itself and produce reports that show competitive advantage toe-to-toe with industrial farming. Even throw in high technology workers for extra dollars. Effectively to eat better one needs to not just buy better but to literally engineer or join or create an intentional community built around a fundamental principle of rewriting its surrounding landscape, making it richer and healthier over time. (As a parent the unimaginable time costs of raising a child can also be factored into this. Instead of spending perhaps half of ones time in play, one could trade off here again; with kids protected by an enclave of other adults.) Perhaps one thing needed is some kind of "scoring" that weighs individual free time, individual quality of life, food, diet, support for family and children, social space, stress, mobility. Such a scoring probably should include personal sense of value, meaningfulness and purpose in life. Maximizing for those scores could lead people to select practices such as discussed in '1491'. Or perhaps we could all just move to Bhutan. Presumably his work will have some impact. We'll likely see farmer co-ops and marketing boards with a "local food" mantra emerge. We'll see meat marked with the location of the "glass abattoir" where you can go see the animals being killed that feed you. It isn't just knowing how far the food traveled, or that it was "organic" but being able to actually go and see it with your own eyes, and having it be close enough that it is not a big deal, and even more so, that you as a visitor are not just welcome but desired. That seems inevitable. Even perhaps we'll see crazy new dating services not just for singles but for adopting whole extended families into intentional communities... "rate my commune". Perhaps we just need a new food aesthetic; one where people actually love good food. Marc Powell of foodhacking is a good example of somebody at the vanguard of a community that cares enough about food to actually seek out good food, and presumably therefore may protect good food sources. It's clearly a John Muir trope of the civil society moment that "When we try to pick out anything by itself we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe". We are "bound fast by a thousand invisible cords that cannot be broken". To solve the problem of what to eat for dinner, we must rewrite how we live. Neah Bay Fisherman Recently Paige Saez and I were hiking in the Olympic National Forest in northern Washington. This was kind of a prelude for me to doing some hiking after Ryan and I do WhereCamp. We hiked around the Sea Stacks at Shi Shi Beach and explored some of the spectacular tide pools. Incidentally a highly recommended hike. On the way we had stopped by a house in Neah Bay with a hand-printed sign selling fresh caught wild salmon - it was a local native fellow. We talked for quite a while before focusing on actually buying fish. There was a deliberate and conscious pace that he set. Eventually he mentioned that he would have to purchase $80,000 worth of gear in order to be able to sell this commercially - beyond what he was selling us - yet that his family had been doing this for generations. Later I noted that the park-land in that area represented the least "actually useful" land - much of the rest was subject to aggressive forest "management". Some coastal areas were state protected and or otherwise inaccessible to industry, but outside of that everything was hugely clear-cut in giant patches of tree-farms as is most of the United States sadly. It struck me as odd that the National Park didn't simply protect an entire chunk of the landscape in all its diversity for once - including the persons. It would be interesting to see what a whole watershed management practice, that allowed and encouraged human habitation, could look like. Here opportunities for local food webs appeared to be marginalized by law with a separation between used and unused land enforced at a federal level. The basic thesis Derrick is presenting is similar to "1491" and "Omnivore's Dilemma". It is "live in the parks - don't just set them aside - make the earth a park.". Again it is an idea of place making writ large. But with an oxyacetylene anger that is surprising. He approaches crimes against nature with a kind of beginner's mind; as if he was freshly transported from the year 1491 to the year 2007. The rawness and tone of his anger is actually difficult to read and to stomach. (As simply a reading practice I ended up cutting it with Kurzweil in order to actually be able to even finish the work. Kurzweil is so focused on one sine wave that he's decomposed out of the noise that its always an upbeat counterpoint to almost anything. By contrast Derrick has found another sine wave going darkly in the opposite direction). In typical Derrick style he relays a friends comments: "A friend and fellow activist said, 'What will it take for you to finally call it an apocalypse? The death of the salmon? Global warming? The ozone hole? The reduction of the krill populations off Antarctica by 90 percent, the turning of the sea off San Diego into a dead zone, the same for the Gulf of Mexico? How about the end of the great coral reefs? The extirpation of two hundred species per day? Four hundred? Six hundred? Give me a specific threshold, Derrick, a specific point at which you'll finally use that word.'". Derrick later points out the role of the predator is to live closely intertwined with a natural system: "When I eat a salmon I pledge myself to ensuring that this particular run of salmon continues and that this river of which the salmon are a part of thrives. If I cut a tree I make the same pledge to the larger community of which it is a part. When I eat beef or for that matter carrots I pledge to eradicate factory farming". [ Page 138 ] With that position he swiftly cuts through Peter Singer style inanities about a calculus of suffering. Peter Singer being a philosopher who paints both himself and people around him into peculiar corners using koans that have no resolution. For example selecting to minimize the suffering to cattle by killing all cattle. Others, such as Michael Pollan struggle with Peter Singer, and versus their predatory instincts. Derrick instead speaks about selecting to maximize biodiversity - a very E.O Wilson attitude - and not to select for solutions that necessarily minimize suffering. Such a calculus better seems able to meet Singerian requirements than even Singer's philosophy. One amusing parable Derrick relates is how "the bodies of the dead are buried in a confined space, heating the air around them and causing it to expand. Because the space is confined, pressure goes up, pushing a piston which turns a crankshaft. This enslavement device is called the steam engine and has evolved now into the internal combustion engine. At first the burned dead were trees, and later the longer dead in the form of oil. Anybody who has ever used fire has used energy stored in trees or coal for that matter. The big change is in the conversion of these dead into mechanical energy, into what Catton and others call 'ghost slaves'. Today we have about eighty or so ghost slaves for each citizen and more than 9/10ths of the energy used by Homo sapiens is derived from sources other than each year's crop of vegetation". [ p 107 ]. Derrick echoes my fear that industrialized religion is nihilist. And I'd like to digress there momentarily: He comments "The material world is primary. This does not mean that the spirit does not exist, nor that the material world is all there is. It means that real world actions have real world consequences. It means we cannot rely on Jesus, Santa Claus, the Great Mother or even the Easter bunny to get us out of this mess. It means this mess relaly is a mess and not just the movement of God's eyebrows. It means we have to face this mess ourselves. It is very silly to think or act or be as though this world is not real and primary and it is pathetic to not live our lives as though our lives are real." [ page 300 slightly paraphrased for brevity ]. Clearly many folks have a sense of the presence of God. Others, the atheists subscribe to an idea of technology and progress. Both points of view imply that something very much like God eventually makes itself manifest. In many ways both the Christians and the Atheists are very similar. Anything that gives us an excuse to walk away from our behavior here on Earth seems wrong; religion or science. The bible is like television tuned to static; people see whatever they want and use it to add righteous weight to their idealism and hope. Reason is the same way; driven by emotion and highly subjective choices. Nature on the other hand does actually and literally speak. She corrects naivet strongly, demonstrates the value of good relationships, the need to be prepared, and the rewards we receive when we are in harmony with her. There is nothing silent about it, nothing arbitrary or idealistic. If we could somehow practice an engaged and active worship of our own real world, simply being in nature more, and reflecting on what nature says it feels like that would make us stronger. Overall I can't recommend taking all of Derrick's recommendations. Blowing up cell towers and dams will land you in jail, destroy your life, and accomplish nothing. Place destroying plays to the strengths of oppressors. However the unalloyed depth of his rage is the way nature would be outraged if she had a human voice. Because of this Derrick will eventually get in legal trouble for the depth of the anger he expresses. We simply cannot do that, and we must find other ways. Oddly when I later read "Blessed Unrest" by Paul Hawken, I saw similarity. Paul and Derrick both see the same issues; Derrick says "blow up dams", Paul echoes "This means dismantling the big bombs, dams, ideologies, contradictions, wars and mistakes" [ in turn quoted from Arundhati Roy ]. I asked Mr. Hawken about Derrick's work and we both saw the works as definately affected by the author having been abused by his father (a point Derrick freely admits). Blessed Unrest In "Blessed Unrest" Paul Hawken points out that there is a civil society movement and that it is directly connected to preserving our environment. The two causes of civil rights and protecting the planet are connected. This movement is granular and stretches from a mass of local watershed grassroots organizations up to bemoths like and Pierre Omidyar (who funded Platial). I had waited to post to geowanking because I wanted to get a copy of Hawken's book. When it did arrive a couple of days ago I found myself fairly captivated. I had in fact meant to go out and play with fellow geo hacker Dave Yaginuma who was in town for the RailsConf. (Thanks for the pass Gina). Instead I found myself awake at 4:30 in the morning finishing up the appendices. Similar observations to "1491" are also echoed: "When you take into account an agriculture that also included coffee, cacao, tomatoes, avocado, peppers, cayenne, chilies, peanuts, cashews, tobacco, sunflower, safflower, vanilla, pineapple, papaya, blueberries, strawberries, passion fruit, pecans, butternut squash, pumpkin, zucchini, maple syrup, cranberry, tapioca and a whole assortment of beans, it is not difficult to concede that Amerindian farmers were the leading plant breeders in history. Europeans, who had gone chronically hungry for centuries, came into an edible landscape farmed by people who by and large were well fed." [ John Mohawk, Subsistence and Materialism, Paradigm Wars, Indigenous People's Resistance to Globalization. ] [ Page 98 ]. ( I'm a huge fan of laundry lists of food and will reproduce all faithfully ). "Agriculture is culture, and the Americas have been cultured - one might say gardened - for a long time. The romanticized notion of a pristine environment, the idea that white men discovered a virgin continent, was a fanciful one. Beginning in the Pleistocene, humans have altered the land to the benefit of themselves and other species. If you walk into a primary Amazonian forest with an ethnobotanist, you will find a landscape that has been transformed over thousands of years by the intervention of the native population. Forests were converted into silvicultural gardens that supplied a year-round crop of medicines, fibers, fruits and animals. If we could walk the tall-grass Buffalo Commons before the mass slaughter of ruminants and ungulates, we would find ourselves head high in grasses in one of the most fertile savannas in the world, sustained and kept productive by fire ecology." [ Page 98 ]. Usually when reading one is trying to find new language; ways to succinctly capture and express ideas. One piece of language "Blessed Unrest" introduces is Stewart Brand's idea of "slow food"; citing his friends Danny Hillis (whose metaweb project I mention elsewhere by itself). Personally I think the "local food" moniker is more empirical - "slow food" is not a winning phrase and probably only succeeds because of the fame lensing effect around Stewart. Paul Hawken has a kind of Chomsky criticism for media surrounding WTO and global market ideals. He goes out of his way to point out that the so called Seattle Riots were largely a press fabrication, that there is a unified yet non-violent resistance to globalization. He says the press in general focuses on noise and rhetoric rather than say some of the more critical works such as: . He also makes a point that "when communities depend almost entirely on sources of production thousands of miles if not continents away, they become spectral towns lined with fast-food outlets and big-box retailers". [ p 118 ]. He argues that "there are no economies of scale; there is only nature's economy.". He opines "There is no reason that we cannot build an exquisitely designed economy that matches biology in its diversity and integrates complexity rather than extinguishing it." Of note "Darwin's Nightmare" is mentioned. Although not an unbiased movie it is a must see: A subtle point is made about language itself; how the dividing lines between life, intelligence, language are not so clear as we might think. "The Mi'kmaq people know the world through sound. Mi'kmaq name their pine trees by the sound of the wind soughing through the branches one hour before sunset in the fall. Elders can remember the prior names of the native stands of pine, and detect how trees are changing due to environmental damage from acid rain and air pollution by comparing their names with current sounds that they make". [ p 101]. When we think of diversity, language itself is a form of diversity, and each perhaps fits closely to a geography. More than that it is embedded awareness. The classic phrase "meaning through use" applies here. We are prey to language; we often think in words and words and their relationships to each other can shape our thoughts. Being on the lookout for good terms, and for new terms is a good practice. But it is in the appendix where the fun begins - as Paul unveils his own collaborative digital gardening project: This is a wiki of non-profits that hopefully will be collectively groomed. It is a worthwhile and new effort because prior to Wiser Earth there simply was no free, public, definitive enumeration of non-profits. Supposedly "public interest" companies such as and silo this community data behind their own walls under the excuse that it costs money to groom the commons (the same circular justification that NavTek and Encylopedia Brittanica have hidden behind as well). "Life information" - data that materially affects the quality of life - should be public with the responsible government agencies carrying the burden of making it public at no cost in a multiplicity of media. Incorporated non-profits are all registered with the Federal Government and there should have been at least a download or cd-rom available from the federal government, but there is not. One cannot 'see' what non-profits are geographically nearby, or find non-profits meeting a certain criteria. This lack of data hampers good work. I recently had to find a list of geographically proximate non-profits for an Interra related project. This required scraping GuideStar and NetworkForGood, running 10 threads in tandem for about 2 weeks, slowed by http access latency (using whytheluckystiff's hpricot html parser in ruby). The end result was the 90000-99999 zipcode block, and simply the ability to find the locations of the nearest incorporated headquarters of various non-profits in that block. This still didn't tell me the geographical area of interest that the non-profit was spending into. The Wiser Earth Wiki is part of a longer term vision to not just capture all the non-profits but to try and create a kind of "Whole Earth Catalog" of practices for businesses. This last led under Betsy Power's guidance. Interestingly, and somewhat suddenly, we also see a number of encyclopedic efforts including "Encyclopedia of Life" from Edward Wilson (similar to Tree of Life): and even more ambitious projects like FreeBase from Metaweb: There seems to be some recognition that 'commons' or 'gardens' can work and are a useful strategy. It is a pattern of human behavior that seems to be having a resurgence both on and off the net. Again on a personal note, part of the thesis of "Blessed Earth" was the connectedness of the civil society movement. And it turns out its connections stretch right into me, and I've only been involved on the periphery (due to a recent interest in not dying in a sun-baked wasteland). It seems like many of us here in the kind of progressive open-source non-profit community are connected, some through big events, some through shared values, some simply due to long term friendships. If I had the time I could draw a relationship graph that starts with events like Planetwork and Bioneers, and connects to people like Jim Fournier and Elizabeth Thompson (who did Planetwork), Ben Discoe (vterrain), Doug Engelbart (modern computers), Kaliya Hamlin (identity), Brad DeGraf (smartocracy) and Jon Ramer (Interra), Daniel Ben-Horin (Compumentor), Howard Rheingold (smartmobs), Steward Brand (whole earth catalog), Danny Hillis (various things), Paul and many many others. It was in fact this recognition of the value of connections in this specific community that spurred the now broader open identity movement. These folks all represent a wave of a kind of civic activism. Unifying events such as Bioneers and Planetwork moved in the background to help bring these voices together. Early technology projects like "The Well" also were key: If you're interested in the non-profit sector there are even now upcoming events in this family, and there are opportunities to participate: [ Net2 is an interesting event that is occurring at the same time as Where 2.0 - for those of you less focused on geekery you may even want to select for this instead. Or you can all come to WhereCamp without temporal conflict. ] If you look even further in the credits of "Blessed Unrest" you start to see some of the code lifters - people like "Oz Basirir" and "Noel Tarnoff". The actual developers who built WiserEarth, and who are in a way related to a technical enthusiasm that you see in the CivicSpace, OpenLayers, FireFox and OpenStreetMap community. The same is true for the "Web Collective" Seattle based developer community that built Boston Community Change for Interra. And the same values show up in CivicActions who built . There is a network here of people (of whom I've only mentioned the smallest portion of that I happen to know about) who are active in one way or another, in pragmatic, non-violent analysis, consensus and tools building for what they see as good. These kinds of people all represent an enabled and networked community that somehow has a "for good" philosophy ingrained in them. Everything they do is open-source, they literally just give it away and yet still make a living. This may all be just an attempt to create "durable and reproducible works"; purely a technical optimization that cannot be bothered with the inconsistencies and liabilities of ownership - or it could be a deeper sense of right and wrong. Blessed Thoughts It may very well be a mixture of European and native values that eventually comes to define the resurgence of environmental awareness. Influencing Greely, Watkins, Thoreau, Muir, Pinchot, Roosevelt, Emerson and others who define the early environmental and civil society movements. [ See "The Pathless Way" ]. That environmental movement is still here, it is starting to self-organize rapidly and Paul Hawken has hope that it will counter what we are facing. I personally am still concerned that it is completely dwarfed by the industrial machinery and the looming environmental crisis. The problem is that it is not business as usual. Civilizations trundle along through many imagined crises but this time we are facing challenges that will absolutely end our way of life within decades. There is a naivite about what happens when civilizations hit resource walls. Any individual wealth we have is basically irrelevant when effectively the air is going to be sucked out of the room. The problem is not even with nature or with our behaviour but with our collective intellect. Computationally we simply don't have the ability to reason about the challenge gradient facing us quickly enough in a top-down manner. The challenges are big enough, fast moving enough that they overwhelm our ability to reason. As humans we often codify reasoning into habit so that we can deal with more situations more quickly; here we need to get beyond formula, to be fully present in the moment, to reason fully about the situations in real-time and not simply resort to autonomic response. To do that we need more computational muscle than we have; not necessarily even in terms of metal, but in terms of software and social structures that let us do decision making better. If we think about the big slow moving institutions; the federal government, the scientific agencies that advise government and attempts to influence what is still largely a politically driven process rather than a science based process, with endless positioning, lobbying, bickering, compromises and distractions that drive the direction of our civilization - one can see we're not likely going to succeed. We're going to make incremental small improvements to the direction of this machinery, fail to cut back resource use quickly enough, and crash into a resource wall, just like so many smaller civilizations, simulations and games do. There's no reason why we should think of ourselves as exceptions to the sharply non-linear inflection points that characterize many other complex situations. Things often approach self-induced criticalities and crash-out; it is totally routine. We have no idea when we will actually hit the resource exhaustion wall. We should have reasonable awareness at the very least. The world envisioned by "1491" came to a balance as we have not yet; even if that vision is idealistic it feels like what we should strive for. There is either a sense of ignorance or despair about this crisis. Many of us tend to be extremely cynical by nature anyway; as the world shovels more noise in our faces we simply raise the bar on what we deem acceptable levels of devastation. We are also easily distracted, working to protect kin more so than biodiversity; fretting over starving children more so than our entire foundations being swept away. We do have tremendous collective reasoning capability. About the only thing moving as fast as the rate of destruction is the rate of growth of the Internet, and the possibility for some kind of intelligent group based decision making to come out of it. This was Jim Fournier's thesis when he started PlanetWork and it seems to be a valid one; although precisely how a large network of connected people translates from endless hyperglossia to actual progress remains to be seen. Whatever the solution is - it is still not here. The natives of "1491" occupied the same land as us, had similar population sizes to us yet applied totally different technologies, a totally different set of hard earned insights, and had totally different outcomes. We've been allowed to do something different because we don't need nature, all we need is oil. As "Omnivore's Dilemma" points out, oil has taken the place of the sun and natural process. Unlike the sun we've been able to turn up the velocity of consumption. Like ants at the sugar-pile we've stopped gardening a nature we do not need and have just begun refactoring it as suits our whim. We've unrolled the previously closed loops of natural agricultural processes and started to diverge increasingly from our own biological foundation. In doing so a kind of evil has slipped into the land. As we stop needing nature we start to tear off our skin. Today we live in a perpetually revolving media carnival of grotesqueries and indignities such as Bhophal, Chernobyl, Valdez... We live in little white drywalled jails on black asphalt pavilions that are distant from any real or green living spaces. Most of us live lives that are isolated and basically purposeless, selfish, banal and meaningless, where we don't even know our neighbours, where we are unwoven from the fabric. We're prey to a kind of infernal machine of our own making. We cannot plant our own gardens, many of us don't even have any rights on the soil we live over. Often as not that soil is paved. Instead we fixate on optimistic or wishful thinking, trying to desperately cash out. In effect serfs. How many friends do you know who just want to be rich? Or who just want to be able to buy that house in San Francisco? Who can't even see that we could be rich if we could think bigger. Everything about oil culture is one of industrialized process powered externally. Because we don't create power locally we separate production from consumption. We buy into that industrialized process becoming fragile and exposed to the vagaries of change. We practice industrialized consumption, industrialized religion and find our vacation escape in conveyer belt 'Conde Naste' experiences (that all by themselves are in no small way a special evil) rather than just living in our own self-created shared paradise. And outside of the west the media reports huge suffering. A suffering absolutely connected to our actions. Granted nobody has a divine right to life: the life of a system often seems to involve death and cruelty to individuals. A morality based on a "calculus of suffering" is futile - suffering is a fact of life. But perhaps life doesn't need to be quite so cruel and diminishing. We can afford to do better and do less harm. What most of us begrudge is the arbitrary, grotesque nature of the kinds of suffering we see today; mass starvation, genocide, poison. And yet we continue to buy into these systems because they seem to reward us - because true costs are deferred for a few centuries. It is like the ultimate faustian bargan; if we die before our debts are due, we've won. It's like maxing out your credit card and escaping into a fantastical afterlife free of debt collectors. By drawing from oil reserves we appear to be getting more for less work. If a man comes to a people and starves half and gives their wealth to the other half, then that man has the support of the wealthy half. Here nature itself gets short shrift. The reason LETS (Local Economic Currencies) and Coops fail is that they have trouble competing against a dollar that offers a lifestyle backed by free energy. The cost, quality, diversity, marketing and packaging of dollar based goods appears to be superior. Oil was also part of my own life. Growing up in Alberta was very much a case of being indoctrinated in Big Oil. Through my childhood I shuttling back and forth between parents living in Saskatchewan and Alberta. Even my first programming gigs were writing farm software for industrial farming operations and drill stem test analysis software for wildcatting operations. Even in Alberta, the richest province in Canada, the landscape has changed yet again, and within my working lifetime. Alberta has very little wildcatting now and has shifted to oil-sands at questionable return on investment: There's a '1984' quality where even our memories of place are rewritten. It seems to apply when I think back about growing up in Canada. Marketing boards in the 1970's and 1980's helped shape my childhood perception of the bounty and necessity of industrial farming. We didn't have any deep well of culture; the whole province wasn't even incorporated until 1905 and everybody who was there seemed to have arrived like a tabula rasa. A reductionist even sloganesque philosophy stepped into the vacuum. It is hard to even shake off slogans now even knowing better, even knowing that there is a deeper and even more beautiful fugue beneath. That we lived on very old bones. The lesson from "Omnivore's Dilemma" in turn is that we should rewrite these stories. We should think of ourselves as inheriting a legacy of these ancient Americans and try to apply practices that respect nature. We can call it nano-technology if we want to. "Blessed Unrest" suggests that we are in fact starting to rewrite those stories. It still feels like an uphill battle. It feels like the civil society needs to engage with teeth. To actually have a real power to make change rather than just the hopeful or wishful thinking of a hippie army. Eventually it will be necessary to remove many of the sclerotic industrial agricultural institutions we've built. But nobody is going to have the stomach for that pain unless the rewards are totally clear. There are even laws that prevent innovation, that legislate how farms are run. There are farming organizations with vested interests in the status quo; that constantly rewrite the legal landscape away from competing ventures. Reading the case of Monsanto itself is enough to make ones blood boil. As a simplistic maxim: new things succeed when they are so rewarding, so vastly superior, that they switch people away from old things. It's not a case of stopping old vices but starting new more powerful ones. It is intriguing that Americans often seem consumed by fear, consumed by the need to protect and preserve their own lives, and in that fear they fail to hold the line for a broader planetary civilization, preferring to instead break ranks and defend only themselves no matter what the consequences for anybody else on earth. Why are we so fearful? My bubble-gum psychology is to suggest that there may be a kind of Paulo Freire maxim at work where "the oppressor and the oppressed are both trapped in their roles". We need to learn not to be angry or afraid of each other or other countries but to recognize there is a "third force" that traps us all. For people who have grown up and lived in the US they sometimes don't realize just the kinds of local environmental pressures people around the world face. Saber rattling is an indicator of local stresses more so than any overt hostility I believe. The problem today is that with nuclear risks saber rattling is dangerous. And at the same time one doesn't want to create self-induced criticalities; as the US Forestry Management Service found out when they worked so hard to suppress forest fires (which then eventually led to a build-up of undergrowth and even larger fires). Local food webs could perhaps have a calming effect on stress behavior; both personally and at a broader level. If personal risk of dying of starvation is lowered, and dependence on oil mitigated, then those urges to inflict harm on others may be dampened as well. In many ways closing the loops again, living locally, consuming locally, producing locally all helps to push against oil. Part of what "place making" might mean is envisioning how to close those loops; to hold a vision of the land so strongly that we don't forget it again. Place Making Redux We have unrecognized and forgotten heroic powers. We can do more than simply comment on the land but can actually rewrite the landscape. In many ways the real landscape is as malleable as the digital landscape. Whatever bizarre delusion we're under that this is a conservative struggle or a liberal struggle, or that we're paralyzed, or that we are facing final end days is a kind of psychosis. We can act more effectively. It's also clear that there's really only one goal that we should all be pursuing, which is to make the planet healthy. And if it is healthy to at least assert that fact instead of being so unsure and at risk as we are now. This is a longer term kind of goal. (When you don't have kids you can't really even appreciate what it is like to have a longer term concern in some ways, or even the idea of compromise, and I suspect many humanists and environmentalists are people with families). It feels like we should be living our beliefs in some ways. Food seems like the starting point. In food even the simple act of eating well by itself tugs on so many other things that it almost demands a rewrite of personal lifestyles. As individuals we should only eat local food, and transparently processed foods. We therefore need to live near farms or purchase from farmer co-ops. We should become more involved with food, taking vacation opportunities to farms instead of to some Conde Nasty beach resort. There's almost an implied need to live in intentional communities where food and other labour can be distributed; and that refactors divisive urban landscapes. Almost nobody can survive by themselves and eat locally and still have time for anything else. That means we have to be able to deal with more complicated social structures than many of us do now. Separately it means applying the best formal metrics to proving that these approaches are more efficient. Beyond this we should push back on law, to have laws passed that reflect the biases of local food. We have to rewrite the physics away from industrial farming. We should leverage digital technology. Yes map the locations of food cooperatives. But also get beyond just reporting what is. Build just-in-time spatial brokerages that help people make decisions more quickly and effectively than CraigsList and EBay do. Do local micro advertising. Invert the Google model so that you express something that you want, and people come to you rather than you having to search for it over and over like an idiot. Build signaling networks so that people can listen to a geography or community and so that voices can be heard better. Often if it cannot be Googled it does not exist - fix that by pinning ideas to places - geo-locate your blog posts. Build transparency by place sharing so that diseased corporations cannot hide their activity. Build huge community owned place aggregators to back all these efforts. Get beyond tagging and build pure relationships between things. These tools should have been out years ago. There is at the very least a "tail wags dog" effect in place sharing. Reporting on a place like any reporting sometimes warps that place as attention is drawn to it. One can start to make places exist, literally defining what you want to exist. With enough attention and focus drawn to something, in the right kinds of appropriately wealthy forums, those things could begin to exist. has a feature that lets people join events that they "want to exist" and this is similar. Beyond even that I still feel that we need to do predictive simulations of the known rules and relationships that govern a watershed and communities in watersheds. We need to get beyond 2d red dot syndrome, or static 3d, or even simplistic historical time models, but actually start to express digital models that can capture the future. We need to move to not just a "Wiser Earth" or "Encyclopedia of Life" style compendium of dry facts but a "relationship wiki" or a "constraint wiki" of the relationship between facts. Computers can help weigh decisions if constraints are formal and this could help us avoid some of the worst side-effects of our decision making. Recently I had a chance to talk to Marc Davis at Yahoo!. It turns out that like Brad DeGraf and like Mike Liebhold that he too was also involved in early Buckminister Fuller visioning GeoScope projects. There's a hugely energetic and community of strong wills that want to see stuff like this happen; they're engaged and are doing it in some respects. I'm sure Where 2.0 will have it's share of noise and announcements. But the simple metric is "is your daily quality of life improved?" and until that's done there's still an opportunity to do something relevant. I would have called this all Civilization 2.0 but some dude at O'Reilly stole the idea: ( Maybe it should be called "web 2.0" 2.0 . ) Again I point out Luis von Ahn's work; if we can make it fun people will do it. People will groom these virtual gardens. We can imagine an internet that stretches from a virtual space into a real space. Like language or like 'life' having no clear boundary between it and what it depends on. That speaks about place and gets beyond "finding the most relevant places" but that actually "makes places" come to exist by the intensity of focus. That continues to be owned by everybody, where children, aged, incapacitated, prisoners, foreigners, citizens, governments and corporations all vote with their attention on a level playing field based on the merit of ideas - not just with powers they have to deny others participation. I have put up a wiki here if you want to talk about this more, provide links or the like: Also I have been bookmarking under place+making: The Omnivore's Dilemma Michael Pollan In the absence of the Sacred Jerry Mander tp:// Endgame Derrick Jensen Note that 'green anarchy' issue 17 summer 2004 has a Derrick Jensen interview. 1491 Charles C. Mann Collapse Jared Diamond Encyclopedia of Life Project E.O. Wilson Blessed Unrest Wiser Earth Paul Hawken and friends Field Notes from a Catastrophe Elizabeth Kolbert The Pathless Way Michael Cohen on John Muir's life The Singularity is coming Ray Kurzweil	http://hook.org/anselm/essays/20070625_essay.html	<urn:uuid:c61b73c1-d195-42f5-98cc-ef49394a65ff>	en	0.962069	0.087946
You are viewing read_w read_w's Journal [Most Recent Entries] [Calendar View] [Friends] Below are the 20 most recent journal entries recorded in read_w's LiveJournal: [ << Previous 20 ] Wednesday, February 19th, 2014 4:50 pm Aquel no era yo [No real spoilers here—it looks like I'm telling the ending, but the ending is shown in flashforwards right at the beginning.] I went to a showing of the Oscar-nominated short live-action fiction films at the ICA over the weekend. "Aquel no era yo (That wasn't Me)" seems a shoe-in for the Oscar, 'cause it seems like it was taken directly from the "How to Win an Oscar" guidebook. A child soldier from Africa (no country ever named, but, you know, Africa—one of those bad ones) rehabilitated by The West after having been rescued by a beautiful young do-gooder white woman. Chock full of harrowing violence, focused mostly on the violence against the white people, but socially relevant harrowing violence, so you can feel virtuous for watching it, along with horrified and thrilled. Though it was quite accomplished. It felt like a feature film that happened to be short (24 min)—which is also at least partly a criticism. Contrast it with "Just Before Losing Everything," about a woman leaving her abusive husband, which I think really makes use of the short-film form. Its 30 minutes shows events that take place over an hour or so, a short time out of a much longer story. She's taken her kids to the supermarket where she works, where she can use the phone and meet her sister; we see that a few people at work know her plan without having seen them discuss it, we see that everyone at work knows she has an abusive husband without having seen them ask "how did you get that black eye," we see that she doesn't get along with one of her coworkers without seeing what led to it. And it ends, not exactly abruptly or with a cliffhanger, but unexpectedly and with not much resolved. It's a much more daring use of the medium, using the fact that it's short to do interesting things—definitely not a short feature film, not a sitcom like "Do I Have to Take Care of Everything?" not a comedy sketch like "The Voorman Problem" (other nominees). Making a short feature film is another play out of the "How to Win an Oscar" playbook—the people who vote for Oscars know feature films, and feel comfortable with them. A 24-minute feature film isn't going to unsettle them. Sunday, July 1st, 2012 10:51 pm Iced Chai It took a while, because I don't make it all that often, but I finally converged on a recipe I like for chai. In particular, it took me a while to figure out that the right amount of coriander, found in many recipes, is none. • 14 2.5″ cinnamon sticks • 2.5 Tbs whole decorticated cardamon seeds • 2.5 Tbs whole allspice • 2 Tbs whole cloves • 1.5 tsp whole black pepper, lightly crushed • 8 cups cold water Bring to boil, turn down to simmer, and simmer covered 15 minutes. Remove from heat and add • zest of 1 orange (use a vegetable peeler; much less if grated) • 1.5 Tbs grated fresh ginger • 4 Tbs roasted chicory* • 1/3 cup honey and let sit 15 minutes, covered. Strain through fine mesh and let cool, covered; chill. This makes fairly strong chai, for adding quite a bit of milk to. Instead of chicory, which gives a definite roasted/coffee-like flavor, I've also used tea, which is more traditional. I strongly recommend teabags, because the tea should go in as soon as it comes off heat, but should only steep 4 minutes: 4 teabags. I've more often used Celestial Seasonings "Caffeine Free Herbal Tea" (which is not decaffeinated black tea, but an herbal tea that tastes somewhat like black tea), 4 bags steeped only 90 seconds. Monday, February 6th, 2012 6:28 pm LCFD Winter Weekend recipes I headed up the kitchen at LCFD's Winter Weekend at Senexet House last weekend, my first time heading up a kitchen cooking for a crowd. A few people asked for a few recipes—under the cut. Spinach-feta egg bakeCollapse ) Blueberry-peach flummeryCollapse ) Red lentil bisqueCollapse ) Black bean spreadCollapse ) Cheddar-corn egg bakeCollapse ) Black bean stewCollapse ) Thursday, November 24th, 2011 9:36 pm Thanksgiving meal I've made a pretty set Thanksgiving meal when I've cooked for myself for a while now, seasonal for this part of the world. I like all of these individually, and really like them as a menu. A pretty plate, too. To whatever extent succotash is authentically Indian, it'd be made with dried corn and dried beans. Soak 2 c lima beans (I like large ones) in 8 c water with 4-1/2 tsp salt overnight. Drain; bring to boil in water to cover, cover pot, and transfer to 300° oven for 30 min to 2 hrs (depending partly on how old they are) until just tender. Drain and quickly cool to stop cooking. Soak 1-1/2 c dried posole (mote) in water overnight. Drain and cook in water to cover 1-2 hrs (depending partly on how old they are) until cooked through, adding 3/4 tsp salt toward the end; they won't get tender, but they'll stop being mealy. Drain. (This can be difficult to find in some places. It's often labeled mote pelado in Spanish; I believe anything labeled mote or posole will be right. "Hominy" may or may not be the same thing; maíz trillado isn't the same, nor is regular dried corn. Canned hominy would be the closest substitute.) Cook 2 onions, diced, 2 green peppers, diced, 3-4 Tbs oil, 1/2 tsp salt over med-high heat until well browned. Add a little water to deglaze the pan, along with 3-4 Tbs almond butter, and enough additional water to make a sauce. Stir in the posole, then fold in the beans. Taste for salt (or tamari) and pepper. From The Second Seasonal Political Palate with small variation. Growing up, my babysitter was a very good cook of typical midwestern food. Her butterbeans (large lima beans) were one of my favorites. I'm sure hers was made with saltpork, which I don't eat now, but almond butter adds a richness and savoriness that is reminiscent. Here's remembering Hazel. Butternut squash with ginger and garlic Peel 2 lbs butternut down to the orange flesh, and scoop out seeds; cut into 1/2" dice. Add to pot with water to not quite cover, 1/2 tsp salt, and 1 Tbs butter. Simmer, covered, until just tender, 4-10 minutes. Drain, reserving liquid, and spread out to quickly cool. Return liquid to pot along with 2 Tbs grated ginger, 2 Tbs pressed garlic, and 1 more Tbs butter. Boil down quickly until most of liquid is gone and it's syrupy-thick. Toss with the cooked squash. Best if it sits at least an hour for flavors to soak in before reheating. From Julia Child & More Company with small variation. Cranberry-orange relish Roughly chop 1 whole orange. Pulse in food processor until finely chopped but not pureed. (You may want to go through it to pull out larger chunks to add to next step.) Sort 12 oz cranberries and pulse in food processor until finely chopped but not pureed. Add to chopped orange along with 1/3-1/2 c honey and 1/4 tsp salt Best either immediately or after a day. Adapted from Joy of Cooking. Even a little salt interferes with the perception of bitterness; the salt greatly mellows this. I'm surprised the Joy recipe doesn't include it. Wilted cabbage salad Finely shred 2-1/4 lb red cabbage (quarter longitudinally, core, slice crosswise). Toss with 1 Tbs salt and let sit at least 6 hours, tossing occasionally. Rinse in two changes of water (add water to the bowl and drain in colander twice, don't just rinse in colander) and thoroughly dry (a salad spinner in several batches works well). Combine with about 1/6 onion, thinly sliced, 3-4 Tbs cider vinegar to taste, 2 Tbs dried dill, maybe more salt. Red cabbage behaves like litmus paper, changing color dramatically depending on acid/alkali. With the cider vinegar, it's very red/purple. This is new to my Thanksgiving menu; I happened to have some leftovers. But it's certainly seasonal, and its refreshingness works well with this menu. Variation: cumin instead of dill plus a little garlic is good too. Wednesday, May 26th, 2010 3:53 pm Drained yogurt I haven't posted this earlier because it seems more like an ingredient than a recipe, but I do have a couple uses for it. I've started making well-drained yogurt and like it. Put a quart of full-fat yogurt (it doesn't seem to have to be great yogurt—I'm using my grocer's house brand—but full-fat definitely makes a big difference) in a dish towel in a colander and let drain (in the fridge) 6-10 hours; then put a saucer on top and a 1.5-2 lb weight on top of that and drain another couple hours. The result is thick enough to come off the towel in a few chunks. The whey that drains out can be used as yogurt or buttermilk in most baking, or makes a decent (if odd looking) lassi. Makes about 2.5 c drained yogurt and 1.5 c whey. What to do with it: The result is a kind of über-yogurt: really thick and rich; approaching cream cheese in texture but without cream cheese's heaviness. Toppings of various kinds work well. I've tried toasted pecans with maple syrup and rum, which was pretty good (though the tanginess of the yogurt wasn't quite right with that); orange juice concentrate is also nice. My favorite is a pineapple-ginger syrup: finely grate 1–1.5" fresh ginger and squeeze the juice into a cup, and add 12 oz pineapple juice concentrate (the frozen stuff, thawed). 3-4 spoonfuls of that over 2/3 cup of the drained yogurt, as desert or breakfast, is pretty spectacular. You can also use it where you might use sour cream. I'm not one of those people who thinks you can substitute yogurt for sour cream, but you can substitute this stuff for sour cream, and the result is even richer. (I don't know that I'd do it where the sour cream is standing nearly alone, the taste isn't the same, but if it's doctored up the mouthfeel makes it great.) I've made a topping for steamed or boiled potatoes with this yogurt, with mustard, garlic, and shoyu, that I like very much. (A bit less than half the fat of sour cream, if that matters to you.) I heated it in something and it didn't break, as sour cream can, though I should experiment with it more before making that a strong claim. That pineapple-ginger syrup, by the way, is pretty good other ways too. A fair amount added to seltzer makes a very nice soda, or a little added to iced tea, or spooned over fruit. I used it in a Thai-ish curry and liked it that way too. Tuesday, January 12th, 2010 11:46 pm Savory biscotti Made for a friend's birthday, and for the Boston gender-free English country dance anniversary dance; a requested recipe. 1¼ c all-purpose flour 1½ c barley flour (or whole wheat pastry flour, but then you need to be careful not to overwork the dough) 1 t coarsely ground black pepper 1½ t salt 1 t baking powder ¾ c grated romano cheese ½ c toasted pistachios (prettier if left whole) ½ t dried thyme ½ t dried oregano ¾ t dried basil 2 Tbs (packed) minced fresh parsley ¼ c julienned marinated sun-dried tomatoes 2-3 T minced canned chipotle (1½ to 3 with adobo)—the higher amount is quite spicy 4 large eggs, lightly beaten ¼ c olive oil, plus extra for brushing 1/3 c vermouth or white wine or water [perhaps less; it's a pretty sticky dough, though not that difficult to roll out] paprika (preferably smoked) Preheat oven to 350F. Place two baking sheets together (for insulation) and line the top sheet with parchment paper. In large mixing bowl, whisk together flours, black pepper, salt, and baking powder. Add cheese, nuts, thyme, oregano, and basil, and stir together. Separately combine eggs, ¼ c oil, wine/water, chipotles, tomatoes, and parsley. Make a well in the center of the dry ingredients; add the wet and stir to make a soft dough. Let sit a few minutes to firm up. Roll to shape into a log about 3" diameter (about 10" long). Transfer to prepared baking sheet. Brush with olive oil and dust with paprika. Bake 25-30 minutes until golden and slightly puffy. Remove from oven and set on rack to cool completely. Set oven to 325F. Slice cooled log on the bias into slices a bit wider than 1/4". Place flat on baking sheets and bake 12 minutes; turn each slice over and bake another 10 minutes, until barely colored. Transfer slices to cooling racks. Lower oven to 175F and crisp the biscotti on the racks, about 45 minutes. (They should not color further.) I think these are bit dry to eat by themselves, but they're very nice buttered, and they should be good with soup. America's Test Kitchen likes Trader Joe's; best to get the halves and julienne them yourself. Friday, December 4th, 2009 2:33 pm Freshly baked bran muffins Freshly baked because you can keep the batter in the fridge for a couple weeks, and bake them as wanted. Traditional in a lot of ways, though the apple juice concentrate (in place of buttermilk and sugar or honey) is my idea. Various people have told me they don't like bran muffins but they like these. Combine and allow to cool 1 c boiling water 1 c bran Whisk together 2-1/2 c whole wheat flour 2-1/2 t baking soda 3/4 t salt Separately mix together (use a pretty large bowl: it can expand quite a bit when you add the other ingredients) 2 eggs 1/2 c oil 2-1/4 c apple juice concentrate (the frozen stuff, thawed) Measure out 2 (additional) c bran 1-1/2 c raisins Stir the cooled bran into the wet mixture. Add the flour mixture; before completely mixed, fold in the dry bran and raisins. Cover and keep refrigerated. To make: Do not stir the batter—most of the rising has happened in the bowl, and stirring will deflate it. Fill greased muffin tins almost full (again, most of the rising has already happened), and bake at 400° about 20 minutes (start checking a little earlier), until springy. If you're not using all the cups in the tin, put a little water in the empty ones, for more even cooking and to avoid warping the tin. Makes about 40 The above is more traditional, but I now replace the raisins with diced crystallized ginger (1 – 1-1/2 c, depending on how strong it is). "Baker's cut" is already diced, though difficult to find. I assume you could use other fruit juice concentrates or other dried fruit. I've used melted butter in place of the oil, and barely notice a difference—I now stick with oil. Sunday, June 8th, 2008 1:57 pm Two bits of cleverness I cooked at Farm and Wilderness camp for a few days this week; Sam Arfer is head cook there and he invited me up for "skills week," cooking for 130 adults (with 6 cooks). They do real cooking there, no heating up frozen lasagna, and very good food. I had two while-cooking ideas I'm pleased with. I made scrambled tofu for breakfast, and I'd pressed (and crumbled) the tofu the night before so it wouldn't end up soupy. But by the time it had started to brown it was really too dry, even with a ton of caramelized onions—it'd be difficult to eat with a fork without it all falling off. I thought, with the help of one of the other cooks' suggestion of hummus, of tahini. Not enough to really be noticeable of itself, not enough to be in any way creamy, but enough to definitely improve the texture. Something I'd probably do at home too. The other bit of cleverness was in a coconut-milk sauce for stir-fry. I was looking for something sweet to add to it, and was considering applesauce. I was looking around the walk-in cooler for leftover applesauce and saw leftover canned pumpkin. It worked very well—a little sweetness, some earthiness, ideal amount of thickening. (This along with a bunch of other seasonings.) Definitely something I'll use the next time I make my quick-curry chickpeas. About 2 parts coconut milk to 1 part pumpkin puree. Friday, January 4th, 2008 12:17 am Several snack-like things I found an interesting bowl as a holiday present for my brother and sister-in-law, and filled it with several different snacks: Candied pecans The candied pecans from below. (I ended up making 3 [double] batches, because I slightly burnt the first one, and needed an extra gift. I lost my nerve and undercooked the next two batches. This can be partially remedied by putting them in a low oven for quite a long time. They'll get un-sticky, but they'll never get crisp.) Chocolate peanut brittle This turned out quite different from what I intended, though I wasn't unhappy with it. It was supposed to be a thin layer of brittle with cocoa nibs floating in it and peanuts sticking up through it. But it's been too long since I've made peanut brittle and I didn't remember that the candy cools and seizes up after you add the room-temperature ingredients, so if you want it to pour you have to get it fully hot again. Also, I'd never done anything with cocoa nibs before, and I didn't know that they'll at least partially melt. Also, I used so many cocoa nibs that they were never going to be individually visible anyway. The result looked like a disaster—such large chunks that you'd surely damage your teeth trying to eat it. But the cocoa nibs acted like shortening in biscuits, making the brittle much less hard. (The brittle was nearly black from the nibs, which was not unattractive.) The result wasn't bad at all. I don't offer this as a recipe so much as an idea—using cocoa nibs in nut brittle, either just as an ingredient, or to "tenderize" it (not quite sure what to call it—the result is still entirely crisp/crunchy/brittle, just less hard). Candied orange peel & candied ginger I cheated on the candied ginger and bought it from Trader Joe's, then sliced it (knife dipped in hot water—you'll need to set the ginger aside to dry afterwards) to be about the same size as the orange peel. It'd been years since I made candied citrus peel too, so I forgot that it has to age for at least a couple weeks before you eat it, or you'll get a pretty objectionable and long-lasting bitter aftertaste. 3 (organic, or at least unwaxed) oranges 2 c sugar 3 Tbs light corn syrup 3/4 c water Cut the oranges into quarters and cut out most of the flesh (you don't have to be too obsessive at this point). Cover with cold water, bring to a boil, and simmer for 30 minutes. Drain, cover with fresh cold water, bring to a boil, and simmer until tender (about 15 minutes). Drain and dump into cold water. Remove the softer remaining innards with a spoon. Cut into 1/4" or so strips (and to a length that's similar to the ginger). Combine 1 cup of the sugar with the corn syrup and the water in a heavy pan. Stir over low heat until dissolved, then either a) brush down the sides of the pan with a pastry brush dipped in hot water, or b) cover the pan and simmer a few minutes so condensing water will wash down the pan sides (this option is a bit less reliable) (you're doing this to make sure there are no stray sugar crystals that might make the whole thing crystalize as it becomes supersaturated). Add the orange peel and cook over low heat, carefully stirring occasionally, until most of the syrup is absorbed. Cover and let stand overnight. Bring to a simmer again. On several layers of paper towels, spread the remaining cup of sugar. With a slotted spoon (if there's still syrup remaining), remove the peel and roll in the sugar. Transfer to a sheet of wax or parchment paper and let dry for several hours, turning occasionally. Either put this (mixed with about 2/3 the amount of candied ginger) in single layers separated by wax or parchment paper, or toss both with about 1-1/2 tsp cornstarch or arrowroot. Store in an airtight container. Set aside for at least 2 weeks to mellow. (Taken with minimal alteration from 1997 Joy of Cooking.) Thai curried sliced almonds 2-3 tsp Thai curry paste (I used red, Thai Kitchen) 3/4 tsp salt 4-1/2 tsp oil 2 c sliced almonds Lightly cook the first 3 ingredients in a saucepan. Put the almonds in a bowl and pour the spice mixture over; stir to combine. Spread out on a cookie sheet and bake, stirring occasionally, at 275° for 30 minutes. (If you start out with toasted sliced almonds, you can cut the time to about 15 minutes; if you use whole almonds bake at 300°.) The higher amount of curry paste is probably too spicy for snacking, but I meant them to go on salad, fish, etc. Even 2 tsp may be too spicy for eating out of hand. Thai Kitchen is quite strong, which you really need for this recipe; a mild one will require so much that it'll do odd things to the texture. I've since used green to good effect as well.) Curried pecans 2-1/2 Tbs olive oil 1-1/2 Tbs curry powder (Anyone have a recommended one that's reasonably easy to find? Mine is Frontier Herbs, which is okay.) 1/2 tsp salt 1/8 tsp chipotle powder 1/4 tsp smoked paprika 1-1/2 Tbs Worcestershire sauce 2 c pecans Heat the first 5 ingredients in a small saucepan and cook gently for a couple minutes. Take off heat and add the Worcestershire. Pour over the pecans and stir to combine. Line a cookie sheet with several layers of paper towels or brown paper. Spread the pecans on the paper, and bake at 275° for 10 minutes. Transfer to fresh paper and bake another 10 minutes. Raise heat to 300°, transfer to fresh paper, and bake 4 minutes; stir and bake for 3 more minutes. Let cool. I'm sure you could use half a pureed canned chipotle instead of the powdered, or cayenne plus more smoked paprika. Tuesday, January 1st, 2008 10:40 pm New Year's meal I have a pretty set meal that I've been cooking on New Year's Day for a long time now. I tend to shop for groceries several times a week (partly from spending my early adulthood without a car), and to expect to go the grocery store if I need something for that day's meal. A couple of days before New Year's many years ago I realized I'd have to decide ahead of time since the stores would be closed. I hadn't had black-eyed peas in a long time and decided on them, not remembering that they were traditional for New Year's Day—when I looked up some recipes, one mentioned the tradition, and I've stuck with it since. Of these three recipes, only the cornbread is even a little unusual, but I'll include all of them for completeness. Black-eyed peas and rice 1-1/2 medium onions, chopped 1/4 c olive oil 2 cloves garlic, crushed 1/2 tsp hot pepper flakes 7 cups water 1-1/2 tsp salt 1-3/4 c black-eyed peas (dried) 1-1/4 c brown rice Saute the onions in the olive oil until lightly browned; add the garlic and pepper flakes and cook a few minutes more. Add the water and bring to a boil, then add the black-eyed peas and rice. Cook 45-55 minutes till tender. It's worth getting the peas from a store with a decent turnover; very old ones will take a lot longer to cook. Reasonably new ones will cook in about the same time as brown rice. 1-1/2 medium onions, chopped 1/4 c olive oil 4 cloves garlic, crushed 1/2 tsp hot pepper flakes 3 lbs greens (weight includes stems) 1 tsp salt 2 Tbs shoyu Saute the onions in the olive oil until lightly browned; add the garlic and pepper flakes and cook a few minutes more. In the meantime, stem, wash, and coarsely chop the greens. Add the greens to the onions along with the salt and shoyu, and water to cover. It's fine to have plenty of water, it's good mixed with the peas & rice and the cornbread. Simmer 60-90 minutes, until very tender. Taste for shoyu/salt. Note that curly greens like kale take up a lot more room until they wilt. Just keep adding them to your pot (along with a smallish amount of water) and stirring until there's room for the next couple handfuls. Don't add water to cover till it's wilted. Greens: I like kale. Supermarket collards are overwhelmed by the taste of the onions, chard gets too soft when cooked long, and the bitterness of mustard is the wrong symbolism for New Year's. Some years I've added some kind of smoky veggie "meat" to one or the other of these. (One year I added it to both, and they tasted too similar to one another). This year I added "sausage" to the greens after they'd finished cooking, so the greens still tasted of themselves—a better choice than adding it at the beginning. I don't know why I tried this recipe—everything about it suggests dry cornbread (not much fat, all cornmeal, hot pan) which I don't like. But it doesn't come out dry, and it's my favorite recipe. And the fact that it's all-cornmeal gives lots of taste. 1 egg 1/2 tsp salt 2 Tbs olive oil 1 c buttermilk 1 c cornmeal 1/2 tsp baking soda Preheat oven to 425°, and put an 8- or 9-inch cast iron skillet in the oven; let it heat for at least 15 minutes. (If you don't have a cast iron skillet you can use an 8-inch square or 9-inch round pan, but you won't get much crust.) Beat together the egg, salt, and 1 tablespoon of the oil, then add the buttermilk. Whisk together the cornmeal and baking soda. Add the buttermilk mixture and quickly whisk to combine. Remove the pan, add the remaining tablespoon of oil to the hot pan and swirl it around, and pour in the batter. Return to oven for 12-15 minutes, until springy in the middle. *Buttermilk is best, but plain yogurt is an okay substitute. The black-eyed peas & rice and the greens recipe are slightly modified from The Political Palate, Bloodroot Collective, 1980 Sanguinaria. The cornbread recipe is slightly modified from Vegetarian Express Lane Cookbook, Sarah Fritschner, 1996 Houghton Mifflin. Sunday, January 7th, 2007 9:32 pm Kimchee salad A little less unseasonably warm today, but I'm still thinking warm-weather food. Any number of variants here, but one I just made that I'm quite happy with: 1 lb kimchee 1 lb coleslaw mix 1 bunch scallions 1 c peas or snow peas or snap peas 1 c roasted peanuts Baked tofu: 14 oz tofu 3 Tbs shoyu 1 Tbs sesame oil 1 tsp dried ginger 2 Tbs water Slice the kimchee so it's about the same shape as the coleslaw (I used nappa kimchee, but radish should be good too). Slice the scallions. Lightly cook the peas (if you use frozen English peas, you just need to run them under hot water) and slice if you use snow or snap peas. Press and bake the tofu as in the green bean recipe; cut into small strips; bake in a large shallow pan till it firms up. Mix all ingredients and taste. Don't use up all of an ingredient to start with in case you want to adjust proportions. With the tofu it works as a main dish, without it works as a salad. Sunday, July 9th, 2006 12:25 pm Cold avocado soup Yet another requested recipe. Everything is pretty approximate. Serves 2. 1 avocado 1/2 c sour cream 1 to 1-1/2 c ice water 1 Tbs good soy sauce 1/2 to 3/4 tsp salt 2 medium globe tomatoes or about 2/3 of a pint of grape tomatoes 2 to 3 scallions Puree the avocado and sour cream along with a little of the water in a blender or food processor. Add the soy sauce, salt, and the rest of the water to your desired consistency. Taste for salt; it will need to be quite salty for the tomatoes. Dice the tomatoes and add to the soup; cut the scallions lengthwise and then slice thinly and add to the soup. You want this well chilled, but it should be served soon after making it--I suggest chilling it over ice water so it'll be quick, or I imagine you could use a few ice cubes in place of some of the water if you're using a blender. If you make this fairly thick, there will be enough air incorporated into the soup that even if you press plastic wrap onto the surface it will discolor and get old tasting if it sits a while; this is less of a problem if the soup is thin. The soy sauce is basically to add a rich/meaty character--I imagine you could use a mix of chicken (or vegetable) stock and water instead of soy sauce and water. One-third stock, two-thirds water would be my guess. I've made this with frozen avocados when fresh weren't available and it works, though there's enough citric & ascorbic acid added to them (to prevent browning) to be tasteable. Saturday, July 1st, 2006 9:41 pm Glorious vichyssoise First, the 's' is pronounced. "Mayonnaise" isn't <may·oh·nay>, "hollandaise" isn't <hol·un·day>, and "vichyssoise" isn't <veesh·ee·swah>. The next waiter who incorrectly corrects me on this gets a fork in his thigh. Not that I order vichyssoise in restaurants any more--I've never had a proper vichyssoise in a restaurant. Which baffles me, it's about the easiest soup there is to make. The problem is, I'm not good at planning ahead unless I'm cooking for guests, and this is a soup that has to be chilled after cooking--so it's been a long time since I've made it. 3 cups sliced leeks, thoroughly cleaned (or a mix of leek and onion) 4 cups red potatoes, peeled and diced 8 cups water (some of this could be chicken stock, but even if I ate chicken I'd use water) 1 Tbs salt 3/4 - 1 c heavy cream chives, snipped Put the first 4 ingredients in a pot, bring to a boil, and simmer, partially covered, 50 minutes. Remove from heat and let cool. Purée--a fine food mill is best for this, a blender or stick blender is next; don't use a food processor, it'll turn glue-y. Taste for salt--because it's chilled it needs to be a little saltier than you'd think. Chill. Check the texture, you may want to add more cold water. Add the cream before serving and garnish with snipped chives. Glorious. Wednesday, June 21st, 2006 7:55 pm Local vegetables! The farmers' markets have been open since the beginning of June here in Boston, but until this week they just had leafy things, which in the spring aren't enough different from the supermarket to get excited about (though they're great after the first frost), and rhubarb, which was rather pale. But I got local snap peas today! Snap peas are almost always good, but picked today (or maybe yesterday) they're one of my favorite foods. Here's how I made them, for me and a friend tonight: Snap peas, snapped A little oil A little salt Preheat oven to 550F (yes, really 550F). Toss the peas with the oil and salt in a roasting pan (single layer), and roast them till some of them have gotten a tiny bit brown, stirring once or twice--probably 3-5 minutes total. For maximum crispness, serve immediately, but they're also good cold. If not eating right away, cover them once cool--they tend to dry out. If your snap peas are a bit wan, you'll want to cook them a little longer at 500F. Farm fresh don't really need to be cooked at all, so brief in a really hot oven works fine. Older ones will be better a little more cooked. I cook green beans (especially early ones, later in the season they can be too tough for this method) and asparagus this way too. This I served with Cold shrimp soup 2/3 lb shrimp (frozen is fine) 3/4 to 1 seedless cucumber, peeled and chopped 1/8 sweet onion, chopped (maybe start with less) 1-1/2 Tbs dijon mustard 2 tsp dry dill weed (if serving immediately, you'll probably want more) 1 tsp sweetener 1-1/2 to 2 c buttermilk 1/3 c tart white wine, or a bit of lemon juice All measurements are quite approximate. If your shrimp are still frozen, run them through the food processor first till finely chopped, then add the next 5 ingredients and process till finely chopped. Add the buttermilk & wine and process again; taste for seasoning. Since almost all the ingredients start out cold you can serve it immediately, or it'll keep a day or so chilled. Serves 2 as a main course. A very good combination, the slight sweetness of both the shrimp and the snap peas, with the contrasting texture. Sunday, June 11th, 2006 12:08 pm Cinnamon-Date Skones Not "scones," as the flavoring is about as authentic as blueberry bagels. But tasty. Another requested recipe. 4 c whole wheat pastry flour (you could certainly try white, though I suspect the flavor would be a bit insipid; I've used barley flour and they taste good, but they're a bit crumbly) 1/4 c dry sweetener (I use dried cane juice; if you use brown sugar you may want to mix it with the wet ingredients) 1/4 c baking powder (yes, really that much) 1 tsp salt 2 tsp cinnamon 1/4 lb butter (frozen or chilled, see below) 1-1/3 c chopped dates, packed 1-1/3 c chopped pecans 1-3/4 c heavy cream 1/4 c dark rum 4 eggs Mix the first 5 ingredients. Cut in the butter however you normally would, then add the dates & pecans Add the dates to the dry ingredients and break up the clumps (the dates do tend to clump when you pack them), then add the pecans, and grate in the frozen butter (this is my preferred way of "cutting in" butter). Mix together the cream, rum, and eggs, and briefly stir them into the dry ingredients. Allow that to sit for a few minutes to firm up. Divide into 4 pieces, and shape each into a round 1-1/2" high; cut each round into fourths; place on a lightly greased baking sheet. This will keep, covered closely with plastic wrap, overnight in the fridge. Bake at 400F for 15-20 minutes (that's a rough guess), till lightly brown and minimally springy. Rich enough to serve plain, or with processor-whipped cream (which is much thicker than other-whipped cream) or clotted cream or butter. Wednesday, May 10th, 2006 8:13 pm Chipotle-sweet potato soup I had a request for this one too. Perhaps the highest ratio of goodness to effort of anything I make. 1 medium onion, chopped olive oil 1/2 tsp salt 3 cloves garlic 1 tsp dried ginger 3 very large sweet potatoes, the redder the better, peeled and diced 1 canned chipotle, minced, with adobo vegetable stock to just cover 1 cup or so milk/soy milk [edit: a can of coconut milk is really good] tamari to taste 1 large (approx 22 oz) can black beans, rinsed Saute the onion in the olive oil with the salt over medium-low heat till well softened. Add the garlic and ginger, and saute a few minutes more. And the sweet potatoes, chipotle, and vegetable stock. Simmer, partially covered, till the potatoes are very tender. Puree (a stick blender is easiest) and add milk to thin as you like. Taste for salt/tamari & heat (you can finely mince more chipotle or just use the adobo if you want more heat). Stir in the black beans and heat through. The extra canned chipotles: I put individual chipotles on plastic wrap and spoon their adobo over, and then freeze hard. Once they're frozen I wrap them tightly in plastic wrap and store in the freezer. Sunday, March 26th, 2006 1:00 am Polenta with chiles A friend asked for the recipe, so I figured I'd post it here. 3 mild chiles (can certainly use more if you like). Bring to a boil 2 c milk 1/4 c water (use liquid from canned corn) 1/2 tsp salt (a bit more if you don't use the canned corn liquid). Once that's boiling, combine (don't let it sit long) 3/4 c cornmeal 3/4 c cold water (use liquid from canned corn) and stir into the boiling milk. Stir continuously until it comes back to simmer and thickens; turn heat down and simmer 15 minutes (or longer), covered, stirring occasionally. (If you let the polenta cool it will solidify, so have everything else ready before you take it off the heat. It won't be harmed by cooking longer.) Just before taking it off heat, stir in 1/2 c parmesan (or a bit more). Meanwhile, peel, seed, and chop the roasted chiles; chop 2-3 canned chipotles (more if they're mild) and mix with the chiles. Layer in a greased casserole: polenta, chiles, and 1 c corn (or a bit more) 2/3 c chopped cilantro 1/2 lb (2 c) shredded jack cheese 1/2 c heavy cream (The layers I use, from the bottom up: a bit less than half of the polenta a bit more than half of the cheese a bit less than half of the cream the rest of the polenta the rest of the cheese the rest of the cream.) Bake 400° for 30 min, until well browned. The advantage of canned corn over frozen (I've tried both) is that the liquid is a good addition to the taste of the polenta. (You won't have a full cup, just use what you have and water for the rest.) I haven't described how to roast chiles here—I assume there are plenty of places on the web that will tell you how if you need it. I bet diced nopales would be a good substitute for the chiles—haven't tried it. An update: If you want this to come out at all solid, you'll need to let it cool (or chill) before you bake it. If you bake it immediately it'll come out very soupy. Still tasty, but a very different result. Another update: The cilantro really doesn't add much, as it loses almost all taste when cooked; I've been asked if it was spinach. Culantro would work, but I can rarely get it. Cilantro stems do keep some taste, but it's a lot of work to get enough. I know cilantro root stands up to cooking, but I wonder about the texture. Yet another update: I've realized there's more advantage to canned corn than just the juice—it's bred and processed to remain crisp with more cooking, especially if you choose one with 'crisp' in the label. Frozen corn tends to toughen in anything that gets baked. Saturday, January 28th, 2006 12:58 pm Cheese pancakes I just made these; I'm amazed at how good they are. Another recipe that is even better than it looks. Only slightly modified from the current Gourmet. 3/4 c chopped onion 1/4 tsp salt olive oil 1-1/2 c whole-milk cottage cheese (preferably small-curd) 4 Tbs butter, melted 1/4 tsp pepper 3 eggs 6 Tbs flour Cook the onion with the salt in olive oil over med-low heat till browned. Combine with remaining ingredients. Using a well-seasoned cast-iron or non-stick skillet and a bit of olive oil, cook 1/8-cup scoops of batter till somewhat browned on both sides. These have a nice slight crispness when served immediately, but unless you can serve them instantly they should keep in a warming oven as you finish cooking the batch. Along with a fruit salad, serves two hungry people or three more reasonable appetites. Monday, November 28th, 2005 10:48 pm Candied pecans I haven't made these in a while, but I was just talking about them. I always make a double recipe. 1 c pecans 1/4 c dark rum 1/4 c maple syrup 2 Tbs butter 1/8 tsp (or a bit more) salt Steep the pecans in the rum for at least 20 minutes. Combine pecans & rum, maple syrup, and butter. Cook over high heat about 10 minutes (if you have a light-weight pan, you'll probably have to user lower heat for longer to avoid burning), stirring frequently and then constantly, until liquid is gone and butter starts to be noticeably separate, and the syrup just starts to form threads between the nuts—this is a bit nerve wracking, as overdoing it will burn the butter or nuts, but undercooking will leave them gooey. (If you've cooked out the liquid, they will be dry once they cool.) Spread out onto a lightly greased cookie sheet (the more you spread them out, the less you'll have to break them apart after they cool), and sprinkle with salt while still hot (I like fairly salty with the sweet). Let cool completely before packing in an air-tight container. Slightly modified from The Common Ground Dessert Cookbook. Monday, November 7th, 2005 6:05 pm Tofu with green beans and coconut sauce This is remarkably good—better than the sum of its parts. As I was tasting the sauce, etc., I thought I was going to be disappointed. I think it also gets better the next day (though it loses a lot of color). On first reading, this may look time consuming. But there's a lot of meanwhile time—while the tofu is pressing, while it's baking, while the onions are sweating. Press 16 oz firm tofu (put on a plate, cover with another plate, and weight with about 4 lbs [½ gallon container] for 20-30 minutes). Cut the tofu into cubes. Preheat oven to 375°. Combine 1 Tbs sesame oil, 2 Tbs shoyu, 1 tsp honey, 1 tsp dry ginger, a few dashes hot sauce, 2 Tbs water. Grease a shallow baking dish. Add the tofu, pour the shoyu mixture over, and gently stir to coat. Bake, gently stirring occasionally (a silicone spatula works well), until liquid is mostly gone, about 25 minutes. Thinly slice 1 smallish onion. Cook in oil over low heat with ¼ tsp salt until thoroughly soft, 10-15 minutes—you may want to cook it covered, as you don't want it to dry and brown. (A wide skillet works best for this, for reducing later on.) Trim 1 lb green beans and cut into 2" pieces; slice 1 red bell pepper and cut into 2" pieces. Once the onions are soft (but not brown), turn heat up to medium and add 1 Tbs grated ginger, 1 Tbs minced garlic, ¼ tsp chili flakes; sauté a couple minutes. Add 1 can (14-15 oz) coconut milk, additional ½ tsp salt, 1 Tbs shoyu; bring to a boil. Add the green beans and quickly bring back to boil; simmer 2-3 minutes. Add the peppers and simmer another 6 minutes or so, until beans are just cooked through. Remove the beans and peppers with a slotted spoon, and quickly boil down the sauce till slightly thickened, reduced to about ¾ cup. Stir in about 1 Tbs lime juice; you may want to add a bit of sweetener or more salt. Serve the beans over the tofu, pour the sauce over that, and top with cilantro and chopped salted toasted cashews. You could serve this over rice noodles or rice, though it's not very strongly flavored—I liked it by itself. It's difficult to keep the green beans bright green; cooking them quickly and serving as soon as possible after they're cooked will help. Modified from Gourmet, Sept 2005 [ << Previous 20 ]	http://read-w.livejournal.com/	<urn:uuid:8c70956a-16e6-4b5a-9291-950b5e996fde>	en	0.951705	0.01854
Seeking Alpha moneymcbags' Instablog Send Message My blog: When Genius Prevailed • Small Company Update: A Hot Piece of SAAS Money McBags wanted to finally get to SAAS today because he has mentioned it a fuckton but has just never found time to cover it in full detail (likely because he has spent way too much time covering this in full detail) and it deserves it's own break out. This is one of Money McBags' favorite names right now (he likes the name even more than he likes the names Madz Negro, Dick Blewitt, and the soon to be immortalized Harry Baals) so it's time to roll up the sleeves, break out the excel, the thesaurus, and the urban dictionary, and get down to business: What the fuck do they do? inContact is the actual name of the company (and Money McBags would love to be in contact with Jayme Langford, but that's a different story), and they have two basic businesses. One sucks more dick right now than Tori Black in A Shot to the Mouth and is more irrelevant in the long-run than something called Lady Antebellum (or the entire Grammy Awards show) and the other is more awesome than a Mickey Mantle letter. The crappy business is their legacy telephony business which basically aggregates and provides telecommunications services to companies and that might be one the least interesting and most irrelevant businesses other than providing computer repairs for the Amish. They basically go to Verizon, Qwest, and Global Crossing and then act as the middle man (the telephony Lucky Pierre if you will) and resell those companies' various telecommunication services and products in a bundled offering to their own clients. This is and has been the majority of their business and is the main reason no one has given a fuck about this company because frankly, it's just not going anywhere. As technology gets better and long distance telephony becomes more competitive, reselling other companies' plans has a future about as bright as that of JOEZ jeans, so a big fucking yawn. That said, the sizzle to this steak or the extra F in the MFF scene is their cloud computing, software as a service (and yes those two terms are mostly redundant but the more Money McBags types them the harder his dick gets because those usually result in premium mulitples applied to a stock) call center business. This business basically takes all of the big legacy equipment out of the call centers, optimizes the call routing, and allows for call center employees to work at home. Their 10K has the gory details, but in their words their software: "includes automatic call distribution (“ACD”) with skills-based routing, interactive voice response (“IVR”) with speech recognition, computer telephony integration (“CTI”) capabilities, reporting, work force optimization, e-learning, call center agent hiring and customer feedback measurement toolsTaken together, the inContact solution creates an integrated solution for call centers, including those with distributed workforces – either at-home or multi-site." In Money McBags' words, their software is full of fucking awesomeness because it cuts the costs out of an unneeded business expense that traditionally has relied on big upfront equipment spend and ongoing real estate and maintenance costs, while also better optimizing the whole fucking process. Seriously, Money McBags dreams about businesses like this (such as CNQR, KITD, and fleshlights) because they are scalable, take the place of more expensive alternatives, and automate the process. So now that we know what this company does, here are the interesting points (though not as interesting as these points): 1. Their software business is growing ridonkulously fast, even faster than Sofia Vergara's son's reputation on "Take your Mom to School" day. Since 2006 the software business has grown annually at 240%, 48%, 46%, and probably ~20% in 2010 which is spanktastic. They are penetrating a market that has yet to take advantage of this kind of software and their business has gone from $4MM in revenue to $35MM in four years and they are both winning new customers (~35 per Q) and also upselling old customers (by adding 22 upsold contracts in Q3 2010). The obvious question though is what the fuck happened in 2010 that the growth rate was cut in half (in Q3 they said the lost two large customers of ~$225k in revenue), because seriously, that is more concerning than finding pants that fit is for a polyorchid. Normally, when Money McBags sees a growth rate falling like that huge red flags shoot up faster than a heroin addict trying to get rid of the DTs, and those flags did shoot up, but Money McBags talked to one of SAAS' biggest investors a couple of months ago and was told that the declining revenue growth rate was from an internal sales fuck up (Money McBags has not confirmed this with the company so he is relating information from a third party, and as always, Money McBags is just some random guy on the internet with a predilection for dick jokes and Alice Eve, so take all of this for what it is worth). The story Money McBags was told is that SAAS tried to launch the next version of their software before it was completely finished and that version didn't have some of the capabilities that the old version had, so customers basically said "fuck you very much" and decided to wait for SAAS to work out the kinks before upgrading or buying the new version. This caused sales to get pushed out and as a result SAAS told the new version of the software to go fuck itself, stopped trying to sell it before it was ready, and went back to selling the shit that works until the new version is 100%. As a result, their sales should start to pick up again because the sales force isn't going out with some confusing message about two versions of a software. It passes Money McBags' sniff test (unlike Paris Hilton's vagina or asparagus urine), though it does raise questions as to management's capabilities. 2. Their revenue and earnings look deceptively shitty: Without looking at their two businesses separately, their revenue has basically been flat since 2005 at ~$82MM, they have had negative EPS, and negative cash flow from operations until this past year, so um, seriously? At first glance, Money McBags would run further away from this company than the lovely Meredith Whitney seems to be running away from congress or Gary Busey seems to be running away from sanity, and that is why this company is still under the fucking radar. Their shitty legacy telephony business has gone from ~$75MM to ~$48MM in revenue and that is masking the growth of their cockriffic software business. Not just that, and this is really one of the two key points to this whole story, management is OVERINVESTING IN THE SOFTWARE BUSINESS right now because they want revenues to rapidly grow in order to get scale. Their software marketing costs were up 28% last Q which is outpacing revenues and obviously not a way to run this business in the long-run. At $100MM in software revenues, this business becomes hella fucking attractive to a CSCO or whoever else has tried and failed with this kind of solution so management is stepping on the pedal to try to ramp up revenues as fast as possible. Shit, if you strip out that unnecessary marketing costs, the software business would be profitable today. In 2010, the software business will have lost ~$6.25MM in income while their legacy telephony business will have earned ~$6.10MM in income (EBITDA has been positive for the last 9 quarters). They are using their shitty legacy run off business basically to fund growth, it's a great strategy, but hidden in their financials which causes fund managers to overlook them when running screens. 3. The market opportunity is ginormous and scalable, like Kim Kardashian's ass, (though if you are going to try to scale Kim Kardashian's ass, make sure you have an experienced belayer). In their latest presentation the company estimates this is ultimately an ~$8B global opportunity and again they currently have only ~$35MM in sales so Money McBags will address that opportunity with a "hell fucking yeah" (though throwing that $8B number out is a bit preposterous as it is more divorced from current reality than Lindsay Lohan, but whatever. Money McBags is sure this is a big opportunity, shit maybe it's only 1/2 of what they think, but if so, that's still a $4B market and they are only ~1% of that right now). They estimate there are ~3MM call center reps in the US and 72% of them are in enterprise sized contact centers that would be able to use their services which is their current market focus. 4. Their competition sucks. They have two competitors, legacy premise based businesses and other software based models. Compared to premise based call center providers, SAAS offers better service, at cheaper prices, with more flexibility, scalability, and security. It's like going from a palm pilot to an iPhone or dating 2005 Heidi Montag to dating 2010 Heidi Montag. As for other software solutions, as far as Money McBags can tell no one has yet matched what SAAS can provide in terms of functionality (shit like ACD, IVR, CTI, WFO, and JIZZ solutions. And only one of those is made up). Money McBags knows and CSCO have tried to compete with SAAS but as of now, SAAS still has the best technology (though CSCO should buy them to combine their sales force with SAAS' software in a marriage that would be as cocktacular as peanut butter and chocolate or strings and bikinis, but alas SAAS seems too small for CSCO to care about right now even if the potential market is huge). SAAS is the only cloud based solution that can offer "telecommunications services with contact handling and performance management optimization." 5. It fits a need in the market and trends are in their favor. SAAS' software is basically a cost save to enterprise companies. It allows people to work from home, it cuts hardware costs, and it increases efficiencies which equates to a 28% cost save for companies with 25 seats all the way up to a 45% cost save for a company with 400 seats. Now Money McBags is not sure what percent of a company's total cost is typically related to call centers, but a 45% savings in anything is nothing at which to sneeze. With margins soon to be compressed across the globe as input costs rise, companies need to continue outsourcing and becoming more nimble, and this is one easy way to do that. Plus SAAS offers the first solution for the middle market that is affordable. But it's not just the cost save as the trends are all pointing towards solid growth. Cloud based computing is becoming trendier than Power Balance bracelets or NSFW muff guessing. With more people already out of work, working from home is becoming an easier option and SAAS allows call center reps to stay the fuck at home and thus not have to be functioning members of society. Most importantly, CRMs/ERPs/whatever acronym you want use are looking for this kind of bolt on type offering. 6. There exists a place in this country called Sacopee. Yep, Sacopee, Maine, its mascot is the fighting colonoscopy bag (or the Hawks, potato-puhtato) and it is located just south of Mouthnipple, Canada. This of course has nothing to do with SAAS, but it is something Money McBags thought you would all be curious to know. 7. SAAS is a SAAS model which is the best revenue model in the world. SAAS is software as a service and it basically means companies sell the software on an ongoing basis and thus the revenues are recurring and stickier than the pages of an old Juggs magazine. This model is much preferred to the traditional software model (though not preferred to the traditional runway model) where you actually sell the software in a one-time transaction and then maybe get some maintenance fees because this doesn't lead to the lumpy quarter problem and it is easier to predict revenues. The point is, Money McBags loves this kind of recurring revenue model and SAAS has 92% retention rates (which is actually a bit low, but given the ponzeconomy™ it is possible that they saw an inordinate amount of customers going out of business). 8. There are a lot of fucking issues: They are unprofitable and have had to raise funds in the last year, there are bigger companies out there who have more resources to eventually do this better, their management team took way too long to put all of this shit together, their legacy business blows, there is some sort of issue at the playboy mansion causing people to get sick (perhaps Pauly Shore went skinny dipping in the grotto), sales in their software business are slowing (but again, Money McBags hears their management team just cocked up the sales pipeline in the last few Qs to try to push out a new version of the software, so that should be getting better, but one never knows), they lost two large customers last Q (~$225k in revenue), and margins fell. Valuation: Valuation gets a bit tricky because the company is overspending on marketing right now to ramp up quickly. That said, lets look at a reasonable upside scenario,. Say their legacy telephony business stays flat...TO READ THE REST GO TO THE AWARD WINNING WHEN GENIUS PREVAILED.... Tags: SAAS Feb 15 9:36 AM \| Link \| Comment! • Economic Update: Lies, Damn Lies, and The B(L)S Jobs Report Wow. Just fcking wow. Even with stability in the Middle East more fragile than an osteoporosis sufferer's boney coccyx as Egyptian government officials join in the protests against their own government (which is a bit like Alan Greenspan protesting against fiat currency or Camille Crimson protesting against hummers) and Jordan contemplates reforms to lessen the monarchy's power (and newsflash King Abdullah, you might want to do some reading on Czar Alexander II because once you let Pandora out of the box, she's not going back in, it's called entropy (though if it were Brooklyn Decker's box that she were let out of, perhaps she would go back in)), with the jobs report not just relatively awful by missing guesses by a fckton, but absolutely awful by showing fewer jobs are being created than in Whoopi Goldberg's pants (and Money McBags is not entirely sure what that means), and with propoganda being spread to impressionable of age females that a rise in cancers are linked to oral sex, the market still went up. Unfckingbelievable. As the market seems to care about geopolitical unrest, a national depression, and anything tangible about as much as Mark Sanford cares about family values, all we can do is buy the fcking rip. The big news was obviously the B(L)S jobs report which headlines lauded as a fantastic report as the unemployment rate dropped to 9.0% in a mathematical sleight of hand that would make Fibbonaci proud and Bernie Madoff's dick hard, the private sector added 50k jobs which would have been more if not for that frisky weather (and um, the fcking depression), and the last two months of data were revised upwards by 20k each month (apparently the checks got lost in the mail). So while analysts try to spin this number as positive (even though it was more disappointing than the book Cooking with Pooh is for coprophiliacs who order it sight unseen) as it was way below their guesses of 145k and way fcking below the whisper number of 180k (and as always, Money McBags only cares about whisper numbers if Kelly Brook is doing the whispering and the number is 69), Money McBags will break it down for you and show why it was so ugly that not even Bill Clinton would sleep with it. So below are Money McBags' thoughts on the B(L)S employment situation report and the Street's reaction to it: 1. Using the weather as an excuse for the ginormous miss is just fcking absurd. Honestly, the weather has now been blamed for everything from lower retail sales (except retail sales were actually decent), to the Protests in Egypt, to the Fat Boys breaking up. Analysts point out that a big reason for the miss was that construction jobs were down 38k and transportation jobs were down 32k and those two sectors are most levered to bad weather (construction is also most levered to the glut of foreclosed homes available and the crash of home prices, but that's not important). That said even if we add back the 70k jobs that were "weather related," the jobs report number would still be 25k below guesses. But that is not the most important point here. The most important point is that these numbers are SEASONALLY FCKING ADJUSTED (bolding intentional, because, yes Money McBags is yelling) which means that they should TAKE IN TO ACCOUNT THE WEATHER because, you know, THAT IS THE WHOLE FCKING POINT OF SEASONALLY ADJUSTING SOMETHING. Now look, Money McBags is no Willard Scott (and not just because he doesn't have a GMILF fetish), but as far as he can tell, the weather this past January wasn't any kind of anomaly (like Carrot Top's career), it was just kind of an average January, or at least within one standard deviation of a normal January. So given that, the seasonal adjustment should have seasonally adjusted for the fcking weather and thus this huge miss shouldn't have been caused by a little snow. 2. The economy didn't really add 50k jobs, it only added 36k because the government cut 14k jobs which is a trend that promises to get worse than Rick Rolling or promise rings. That said, there were 11k fewer temporary jobs which took away from the numbers, so one could say 47k permanent net jobs were added to the ponzeconomy™. Either way, you need to keep your eye on these government numbers because they are only going to get worse (more importantly though, you need to keep your eye on these numbers). 3. The 9% unemployment rate is more misleading than Citigroup's corporate derivatives team and it only takes third grad math to figure it out. Just think about it. All else being equal, if only 36k jobs were added and ~150k people enter the workforce every month, right off the fcking bat we have ~100k more unemployed people going in to the population, and using the theory of something called Mathematics, that should cause the unemployment rate to increase, not decrease. Of course the actual calculation has more moving parts than a Rube Goldberg machine or the Octomom's vagina, so it's not quite that clear cut (though it should be), but the point is that just using the headline numbers and saying unemployment dropped by .4% is intellectually bankrupt. Here is a simpler, logical way to think about it. The unemployment rate went from 9.4% to 9.0% with the addition of 36k jobs, so that would imply that for every 9k jobs added, the rate goes down by .1%, holding everything else equal (and Money McBags would like to hold these equal). So, using basic math, for a 1% drop in the unemployment rate, the ponzeconomy™ just needs to add 90k jobs and thus to get the rate down from 9%, to a cockposterous 0% full employment, never been reached before level, the ponzeconomy™ just needs to add 810k jobs. Ok, sounds simple enough, but here is the part where our minds get blown (and please let it be Alice Eve doing the blowing, and it not be our minds), according to B(L)S' report, there are 13.9MM unemployed people, so if 810k jobs get added (and thus take unemployment to absolute zero, according to our calculations above), we'll still have 13.1MM people unemployed. That's right, using the B(L)S' math, 13.1MM unemployed people equals a 0% unemployment rate which only makes sense in the land of Make Believe or Art Laffer's head. Perhaps it's a derivative of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, we'll call it the Hildasolis uncertainty principle where the more you know the unemployment rate the less you know the number of unemployed. So just step back from the numbers and think about this for a second (and then step back from that and think about this for a few hours). Anyway, the real reason unemployment dropped by .4% was that more people simply dropped the fck out of the workforce and thus the labor force participation fell from 64.3% to a record low 64.2%. If the labor force participation rate had stayed at 64.3%, an extra ~300k people would have been added back to the unemployed bucket and back in to the labor force, boosting the 13.9k unemployed to ~14.2k and yielding an unemployment rate ~9.3%, which is pretty much flat with last month's number (though there is still some fudging in there that would bring the rate higher, but whatever). In all honesty, this remains the most brilliant government strategy since giving Marilyn Monroe a key to the back door. Last month Money McBags called it the "Fck off" strategy because simply telling the unemployed to fck off, and thus kicking them out of the labor force, is the quickest and easiest way to get the unemployment rate down. Sure it doesn't make the economy better, and sure it is a bit heartless, but remember, the important thing isn't the numbers, but it is the perception of the numbers, and a 0% unemployment rate would be perceived as something as awesome as Tolstoy's War and Peace or Malene Espensen's tts. So if you all elect Money McBags to office in the next round of elections when he heads up the BOGUS party, he promises you in his his first afternoon of work he will cut unemployment to 0% with just the stroke of a few keys. Now that is some fcking change we can believe in (and apparently another change we can believe in is ending sentences with prepositions, as somewhere the great William Safire rolls over in his grave). 4. Just some quick stats: 6.2MM of the 13.9MM unemployed (which is 42%) are long-term unemployed, with the other 7.7MM being pre-long-term unemployed. 2.8MM were considered marginally attached to the workforce (up from 2.5MM) and they are as marginally attached to the work force as Egyptians are marginaly attached to Mubarak or Taco Bell is marginally attached to beef. Of those not counted in the labor force, 1MM of them are "discouraged", which means the other 1.8MM are "fcking discouraged." 5. The U6 unemployment rate was 16.1%, unless you want it seasonally adjusted (and the seasons Money McBags likes in his adjustment are cayenne pepper and stripper juice), then it was 17.3%. And since the U6 rate is a better measure of all employment because it includes the discouraged, the perplexed, and Mickey Rourke, and since it also negates the effect of the "fck off strategy," it is more bizarre that we don't refer to this when talking about unemployment than it is that trying to grow meat in a lab is so fcking hard (because really, if you want to grow meat, just look at a picture of Sofia Vergara). 6. Whatever this meinmyplace thing is, it is deliciously awesome (though unclear why it takes so long to load). And yes, this has nothing to do with the jobs report, but one can only look at made up numbers for so long without a break. 7. The last 2 months were revised up by 40k lifting job creation in November to 93k from 71k and in December to 121k from 103k, while dropping the B(L)S' credibility from none to Lindsay Lohan. And this brings us to our most important point: 8. ALL OF THESE NUMBERS ARE FULL OF SHT ANYWAY (even moreso than Manuel Uribe's colonoscopy bag): The B(L)S manipulates the numbers more by using seasonal adjustments, the fictitious Birth/Death goal seek model, benchmark revisions, and telling numbers it won't love them anymore if they don't do what it says. It is these benchmark revisions which shoot down any credibility the No Labor Department might have had. For instance, the 2.3MM job losses from April 2009 to March 2010 were just revised up to 2.6MM. Come again? And if you are Jennifer Metcalfe, then by all means, please come again. But seriously, how the fck can they change numbers from over a year ago? Sht, if tomorrow the NFL awarded the Arizona Cardinals the 2009 Super Bowl or the AVN awarded Kelly Madison 2010 MILF of the Year, don't you think those fine organizations would lose credibility (even if the lovely Ms. Madison deserved it)? So why did Money McBags just waste all of his time analyzing this sht if it will just be a different number next month, next year, sht even next fcking decade? Here is an example of how ridiculous these numbers are: The Birth/death model black box model (and as always, the only model with a bigger black box is Nyomi Banxxx) had all of its numbers from the past year changed in the benchmark revisions. No really, the numbers which were completely made up anyway, are now a different set of completely made up numbers so any analysis done with them (and Money McBags always shows the preposterousness of them) was all for fcking naught. Money McBags was so perplexed by these numbers having changed and by the birth/death model number for January coming in at an unheard of -339k (which is so far out of the norm that not it is not even within a Kim Kardashian fat tail of the mean), that he emailed some guy named Mish to see if he had any fcking clue (and Mish got all down and dirty with it so Money McBags wouldn't have to, so enjoy, and if you need something to wake up after reading that, enjoy this). So the 36k jobs added include a non-seasonally adjusted 339k somehow mashed in there. Sounds credible to Money McBags. 9. Ok, Money Mcbags has harped on the math plenty so far, but there is one more thing he is having trouble understanding (other than people who watch American Idol and how Minnie Driver has a career), so bear with him. Last month, there were 14.485MM people unemployed, this month there were 13.9MM, for a difference of 585k. So if 36k got new jobs, and the labor force was reduced by 504k (though the people not in the labor force only went up by 319k, so um, explain that, oh right, the total population fell by 185k somehow, must have been a breakout of that terrible "rounding error" disease), where did the other 45k to 230k people go? December Unemployed 14,485 Reduction in Labor Force (504) Jobs Added (36) ???? (45) January Unemployed 13,900 December Unemployed 14,485 Increase in "Not in Labor Force" (319) Jobs Added (36) ???? (230) January Unemployed 13,900 Perhaps the unaccounted for are the new "Lost Generation." As usual, if you care about the made up numbers that are going to change anyway, here are the details from Table B: January Change in Jobs # Government Jobs Govt Full Time (14,000) Total Govt (14,000) Permanent Private Sector Jobs Financial Servives (10,000) Other 5,000 Professional Services 42,400 Information (1,000) Transportation (38,000) Retail trade 27,500 Wholesale Trade 9,200 Education and Healthcare 13,000 Leisure and Hospitaility (3,000) Mining 1,000 Manufacturing 49,000 Construction (32,000) Plug (1,700) Total Permanent Private Sector 61,400 Temporary Private Sector Jobs (11,400) Total Permanent Jobs # 36,000 Birth/Death Model Plug An anomalous -339,000 Actual Jobs # Go Fck Yourself So now that we have established that the jobs report was not just awful, but manipulatedly gibberish and likely to be changed later anyway, you should all write your news reporters/columnists/prevaricators when they hype up how great the drop in the unemployment rate was. Sht, even Bloomberg ate a dick on this one as they reported: "The improvement underlying the drop in the unemployment rate is in sync with reports that show the economy is gathering momentum, which in turn would bolster job growth in coming months." Umm, Bloomberg, please read the above 2k words to see THAT THERE WAS NO FCKING IMPROVEMENT UNDERLYING ANY JOBS REPORT (except for 36k more jobs which will do as much for fixing the economy as a kleenex will do for Barbra Streisand when she sneezes). Anyway, Money McBags always has more at THE AWARD WINNING WHEN GENIUS PREVAILED. And if you need your Money McBags fix during the day, he is known to frequent the Twitter, the Facebook, and the Rick's Cabaret where he is not just a shareholder (who happens to be up 13% in a month since buying back), but he's also a client. Feb 08 10:08 AM \| Link \| Comment! • Surely You Can't Like CRUS. Money McBags Does Like CRUS, and Don't Call Him Shirley. Money McBags did a quick analysis of CRUS yesterday and today he was able to go through their transcript and he has to say, he was actually pretty fcking surprised by how positive management sounded so perhaps there is still nice upside here. Below are Money McBags' takeaways from the call. 1. This company is still driven by AAPL, but sht, if you're going to be driven by something other than Malene Espensen, then why the fck not AAPL? 54% of revenues came from AAPL and they "are engaged with them on multiple new developments" their relationship continues to be "outstanding," visibility "remains excellent" and they expect to grow revenue with AAPL "substantially this year." And yes, for any CRUS shareholder that should have made their dicks hard (or for female shareholders, their pedicures dry quickly). As the AAPL relationship goes, so goes this company and while AAPL has a reputation for not letting suppliers get any kind of bargaining power over them, CRUS is still just one little fcking socket in what AAPL does, like a tick on a whale, or a mole on Gabourey Sidibe. In theory, AAPL likes CRUS because their audio chips kick the sht out of the competition and there is supposedly a pretty wide gap between CRUS and their competition (though not as wide as the gap between the hotness of Mark Sanford's mistress and his cheated on wife, which explains why he eschewed his BS family values schtick like all good politicians). So as long as AAPL is concerned about quality, there is no reason for this relationship to end any time soon, that said, Money McBags does worry about pricing power even if guidance is for that to be steady. 2. There is now a tablet opportunity for their chip and this could be really exciting, like an invitation to Charlie Sheen's new house. Management was kind of coy about this on the call saying: "It is one of the ones you would want to be in. I'm not going -- we're not in all of the ones I would like to see us in the long-term but at the same time, it is definitely in one of the better names. It has got a pretty good channel. A customer we've currently got a reasonable amount of business with as well." So, umm, it certainly could be the iPad and if so, that could be a fcking huge boost to earnings because iPads continue to sell faster than money or tickets to an Alice Eve taint tickling booth. This bears keeping an eye on (while this bears keeping two eyes on). 3. There could be some upside in the energy business, but who the fck really knows. This Q was hurt by their seismic business which they said on the call is always hard to forecast but picked back up at the end of the Q. They also seem to remain bullish on their power meter business, that said, they talked about a really fcking interesting potential opportunity with their LED business. Now look, Money McBags is no engineer (though he is always happy to be first in line to run a train if need be), and he's not 100% sure of what this LED market opportunity really is, but on the call management said about the LED potential: "if you look at the landscape in the market place, sometime between now and 2015, you go from a $40 million unit kind of a market, $40 millionish to $1 or $2 billion, and so you know, we're probably not going to get 100% of that market but I don't mind splitting a billion units." So um, who doesn't like a market that is going to grow from nothing to fcking something really interesting in four to five years. Money McBags wouldn't forecast anything from this in his numbers, but it is definitely something that could provide upside. 4. Management is kind of a bit douchey. Ok, Money McBags is sure this sounded better than it read, but CRUS' CEO said "Our biggest problems are that our largest customer is the best company in the world" and "It will be a challenge to hire enough engineers that meet our standards in order to staff everything we want to do going forward." First of all, Vivid Video is not their largest customer, so the first statement is false, but secondly, hey good for them that they are all up in AAPL's dilznik right now (and that may be an overly technical term, but whatever), but that statement reeks of the beginning of hubris and this company has nothing about which to be cocky since they have almost no control over their sales. Yeah, it was a meaningless and kind of flippant comment, but Money McBags knows the second you start getting cocky about sht like that and take your eye off the ball, you figuratively and literally get a dick in the face. This is what Money McBags would have liked to have heard "our biggest problem is that even though out largest customer is the best company in the world, it means we have to try even harder to diversify our revenue base and continue to raise our standards to meet that large customer's needsFinding the talent to keep doing that will be challenging, but our goal is to continue to find success for the long-term." Was that so f*cking hard? And trust Money McBags, if he is the one coaching you on CEO-speak, you may want to take that extra management class. 5. NOLs are coming (and not just because they recently found the work of Riley Steele). This isn't that big of a deal, but it should make their GAAP financials look a bit different from now on. They are going to take a $100MM non-cash income benefit in Q4 in order to properly value their deferred tax asset and then use a 35% non-cash tax rate for.....READ THE REST AT THE AWARD WINNING WHEN GENIUS PREVAILED Tags: CRUS Feb 01 9:37 AM \| Link \| Comment! Full index of posts » Latest Followers Latest Comments	http://seekingalpha.com/user/536344/instablog	<urn:uuid:39ca7e79-0749-41a0-8e69-e48076f11352>	en	0.964114	0.069253
E N T E R : E L E C T R O Version 0.7 copyright (c) 2003 andrewfreak1 (a.k.a andrew rubin) all rights Email: rubes@csiway.com or rubes2@earthlink.net This guide is copyright (c) 2003 andrewfreak1. This game is copyright (c) 2001 Activision, Vicarious Visions. I was not involved in the making of his game, so just incase your wondering. The only websites that can post this with my permission is: and if you steal it and post it up on your website, lets say, www.john.com, I will E-Mail you very politely to take it off. If you don't listen and co- mpletely ignore my E-Mail, You will suffer! This FAQ is MY WORK, MY PROPERTY! You get it?! If you spotted any spelling errors, or anything else that looked bad in this guide, please E-Mail me politely over at: rubes@csiway.com And I will fix and you will be credited. DO NOT be cruel, nasty or any other way that is dumb to say. Also, if you e-mail me like this: "Hey, you said that you can (goal here) in (time here) but it took me (time here again) you (Very bad here!!) No. You aren't funny, and you are very, very dumb. I will easily ignore your message if you use such language against me, you will NOT get a respond. If you beg me to update my guide, I will not respond to you. I WILL UPDATE HEN I WANT TO! Ok?! was that whole babble clear? good. Now onto the guide!!! 1) Introduction 2) Version History 3) Basic Controls/Pickups 4) The story 5) FAQ/Walkthrough A: Enter the web-head B: Burglary interuppted C: Rooftops by night D: Warehouse 66 E: Spidey Vs. Shocker F: Smoke Screen G: Hangar 18 H: Wind Tunnel (version 1 title: The Plane) I: To catch a theif J: in darkest night K: Heart of Darkness L: Catch that Train! M: Gangland N: Spidey vs. Hammerhead O: Spidey in the machine P: Mission: Spidey Q: The Corkscrew (version 1 title: Downward Spiral) R: Spidey vs. Lizard S: The Gauntlet (version 1 title: Aces High) T: Spidey vs. Sandman again U: Konichi-wa, Spider-San V: Rock of Ages W: Spidey vs. Electro X: The best laid plans (version 1 title: Top of the world) 6) Gallery - Things to unlock 7) Costumes/Cheats 8) Special Thanks Hi this is my guide for the ultimate Spider-Man 2. This game is the sequel to the amazing game 'Spider-Man' from the year 2000. I think this game is a little better than the first, since it has new features and all... You can check out Scott Miller or R- omy N. Junio Jr.'s guides if you want.. But I WASN'T using their guides while writing this one. This is my first guide so I hope I do a good job for you all Spidey-Fans. Lets talk about the ga- me. Spider-Man 2 has 23 levels, 5 bosses and explosive gameplay. What else can I say? Vicarious Visions did a awesome job, and A- ctivison did a great job on this game to. I can't wait until Sp- ider-Man 3... But I still think this game is cool! 2) V E R S I O N H I S T O R Y 5-5-03: Ah, finally started this guide after playing it for a freakin' long time. Made the ascii art, table of contents, and Introduction. 5-6-03: I found out that Spidey-Armor was on 'to catch a theif' level so you won't die. 5-6-03: Found out a cool secret in spidey vs. lizard 5-7-03: Eh, I've been really busy today with my schoolwork, but now I'm working On the guide! 5-10-03: ARRRGGHH, I've been sick the past few days. Well at least I wrote notes to myself while playing the game. 5-10-03: Finished all the level walkthrougs. 5-10-03: Finished the guide, going to start posting it. 3) B A S I C C O N T R O L S / PICKUPS Don't you remember when they first invented PSX? How nice and clean the the controllers were, and now mi- ne is all screwed up and it doesn't work that good. Now I have to use my PS2 controller which is nice and clean. Yeah, I used to rent a bunch of games from my nearby video game store named "Grey World Video". And if you rented one, they wouldn't even let you have the actual game case, and just give you a old cruddy case and you won't be able to read the controls in the X = Jump Square = Punch, Press 3 times for a combo Circle = Kick, Press 3 times for a combo Triangle = Web trap, to tie up enemies with Spider-Man's X + Square = Jumping Punch, Spider-Man will give enemies a powerful headache. X + Circle = Jumping Kick, Spider-Man will majorly knock enemies off their feet. Square + Triangle OR Circle + Triangle = Grab enemie behind the back. Square + Triangle + Square = Grab and punch your enemy on the Circle + Triangle + Circle = Grab and kick enemies in their butt Circle + Circle + Circle = Triple Kick Square + Square + Square = Triple Punch Triangle + Left = Web Spikes Triangle + Right = Web Dome Square + Triangle = Web-yank enemies over your head Triangle + Up = Impact Web Triangle + Down = web-yank Triangle + Down + Left = Web-yank left (this is easier to do with the left analog stick) Triangle + Down + Right = Web-yank right (this is easier to do with the left analog stick) R1 = zip-line R2 = Webswing X + X = Webswing ( on kid mode ) L1 = Targets Spider-Man's web to enemies L2 = Targets objects and enemies Triangle + Up During webswing = Aerial Impact Web X + Triangle + Up = Jumping Impact Web There! Now that you know all of 'do whatever a spider can' moves, It's time we finally do this. Taser Webbing - It's a light green web cartridge with a little yellow in the middle. It's found in some of the later levels (it gives you electric web) Web Cartridge - It's a blue, normal web cartridge that gives you a extra cartridge (duh) Health Spider - Its red and white, It gives you more Freon Webbing - Its a light blue web cartridge that gives you ice webbing. Spidey-Armor - It's a golden spider-icon that gives spider-man another health bar. It gives you armor, and its extremely useful. Comic Book - Eh, well this doesn't increase anything, but if you find a spinning item looking like a copy of Amazing Fantasy 15, COLLECT IT FAST! You've just added a comic to your comic collection in the gallery. 4) T H E S T O R Y Taken straight out of the instruction booklet: The threat of the Symbiote Invasion is over, and Doctor Octopus and his cronies are once again behind bars. The city, and the people that call it home, can collectively breath a sigh of relief. Or can they? Evil abhors a vacuum, and with Doc Ock gone, can it really be that long before another rises in his place? Not likely. Unaware that her work has drawn the attention of sinister forces, Dr. Watts has completed a miraculous new device that would give any man or woman unspeakable power. In the hands of the one such as Electro, who knows what deviltry may be wrought. Electro, for one, intends to find out. As before, Electro has managed to assemble a cadre of allies and followers, from lowly street-thugs to hardened super-villians His goal: to steal and assemble the Bio-Nexus device; and with it bring the city, if not the world, to its knees... 5) F A Q / W A L K T H R O U G H Ah, here we are, the Walkthrough/FAQ! I have some things to tell you first: COMIC ALERT means I will tell you wh- ere the comic location is in the area your in. WHAT-IF MODE means if your playing in what-if mode, I'll tell you what will happen in the level. Understand? Onto the Walkthrough/FAQ... Ok, after you finish watching the FMA where Stan Lee talks, Beast will pop out of nowhere and ask you to do training a- nd stuff. Guess what? Spidey says yes. Ok, webswing toward the first building and look out for the Fantastic Four building, it will be on your right. No one on it? Awwww... That was the part I was looking forward to. Sooner or later you should webswing on a crane, which is the second one. COMIC ALERT (easy): On the second crane, which you are on, on the cab is the comic. Then webswing over to the unfinished building and beat up the henchman and get the ?. Then go over to the building with three crates on it. COMIC ALERT (any difficulty): Web-yank the three crates and then the comic should pop out. Then webswing to the next two building and your done. After you watch the FMV, Take out the two thugs that are trying to kill you. Then webswing around the street and then you should see a alley with a dumpster blocking. Jump over the dumpster and then you should be ambushed by four COMIC ALERT (kid mode): Under one of the trashcans in the area your in, is the comic. Take them all out and then one of the rooftops surronding that area has a basketball on top of it. If you make a h- oop in the basketball court, a health icon will appear. Then search around and you should see two thugs standing near a car (uh oh! Grand theft auto!) and they blow it up for fun. Just beat them both up and spray webbing on both of the car windows, that should smother the fire. Then webswing around the streets some more and you should see some thugs blow up a cafe. Just beat them up and go in front of the fire hydrant. L2 target it and web-yank it to put out the fire. If you stand in front of the hydrant's path, it will blow Spider-Man all t- he way over to very front of the cafe. Then just follow your compass and climb up the building you saw in the cutscene. COMIC ALERT (Normal): On the rooftop next to the one you finish the level on, there is a comic. The rooftop is flatter then cement, so you shouldn't miss it. Once you start the level webswing to the first building. Then keep on webswinging until you see a ?. Get it, then go over to the thug and stop the machine gun. WHAT IF MODE: Jeez, on the third level they finally change something in the game. Eh, it's a giant ban- ana (?!) and if you make a tricky jump onto the banana, it'll take you for a ride until you get to the parts with the machine guns! Then webswing onto the bridge and go across it. You should get a checkpoint. Once you've made it to the end of the b- ridge, get the web cartridge and the health spider. Then beat up the bad guy. COMIC ALERT (hard): Once you've took out all the machine guns, return to the bridge for the comic. Then keep on webswinging and follow your compass. Then your Spider-Sense will tingle and you will have to take out 3 m- achine guns. Just impact web them 2 times and they should blow up. Then just follow your compass and webswing onto Warehouse 66. WHAT IF MODE: The big boxes are now presents with a bow on top! The large barrels show a pic of spidey and says 'Web Soup'. Yum. COMIC ALERT (easy): Under the big barrel left of you when you begin the level. Once you start the level there is ton of bad guys to kill. A easier way to find the bad guys is to zip to the ceiling and crawl around on top of the ceiling to look around. Just keep on beating them up. Sooner or later spiderman should say theres one more left. Just beat him up and finish the level. WHAT IF MODE: Might be some new spidey quotes. Once you begin the level Shocker will keep on blasting his damn blasters at you. Do NOT run up to him and punch him, Because then he'll just blast the heck out of you. COMIC ALERT (hard): Inside the fire, it is very hard to see, is the comic book. Just hop onto the big crates and L2 target the huge crates that are hanging from the ceiling. Web-yank one from Shockers distance. It should fall on Shocker's head, making him lose health. There is another way to kill him, but it is tough. Grab some boxes and kill him. Once you go over to the bomb, just go and collect the 4 keys. Here are the locations I got for all 4 keys: KEY 1: Turn around and go straight. You should see 3 bad guys. Beat them up for the key. KEY 2: Go south from the Activision sign and go on the ground. There are 2 guys there. Beat them up for the key. KEY 3: There are guys next to the NYPD Police Car. WHAT IF MODE: There are flat bananas instead of newspapers scattered around the level. KEY 4: Go even more far from the Activision sign and on the grass there is 2 guys. Get them for the key. Now that you've gotten all four keys (Red-Blue-Yellow-Green) Go back to the bomb and put the keys in the matching color slots. Now onto Hangar 18. Spidey finally arrives at Hangar 18. Now this level is kind of like Rooftops By night, except a little more trickier. Go straight and t ake out the 2 Machine guns in front of you, then take out the machine guns on the left side of the area COMIC ALERT (Kid Mode): Under the big box left of the hangar. and then do the right side. Then you should be finished. 8)WIND TUNNEL (The Plane) WHAT IF MODE: Instead of barrels, they're light bulbs! They do the same amount of damage, too. The main key here is: SPEED! Your gonna need a lot of it, too, if you want to save that pilot. Just clear the barrels out of the plane's path. Once you've gotten to the last room, L2 target the plane's left prepellor, and web it up and then shoot web on the tail of the plane. COMIC ALERT (Normal): Once you've done what I just said, quickly go over back to the very first room. Under the net with the barrels there is the comic. Now hurry back to the plane and finish the Then just web up and stop the right propeller and you've just completed the level. Ok, now finally this is the level where you have to chase the helicopter that Spidey threw a tracer on. This level was pretty tough the first time I tried it. The dang mercenarys fire their dang bazookas at you, and they shoot lazers too. This level is pretty easy to me now, because I found out that there is Spidey armor in this level. Ok, webswing straight and then your on the third building. COMIC ALERT (any difficulty): On a lower ledge on the third building, in the front of it, is the comic book. Then webswing forward to the unfinished building and you should find the Spidey-Armor icon. Collect it fast! This level will be tough if you don't. Then just webswing to finish the level. Well, it looks like spidey made it to the trainyards. I don't really like these levels, but I had to beat the game somehow, right? Ok, once you begin, jump over the train and you should be sneaky, because there is your first guard. COMIC ALERT (easy): After taking out the first guard, in front of the garages that do not open is the comic. Take him out, then go straight to Area 2. Once you've made it past the hallway, there are some guards you'll need to deal w ith. Just be stealthy and no problems will approach. Then head over to Area 3, and repeat the same process. Then head to area 4, and just take out the guys there since they're really annoying. Then push the switch (press square) and now for the hard part. You have to solve a puzzle involving switches, so go over to the yellow light to start off, and shoot web at the sw- itch. You have to make the machine switches all be GREEN, so do nt accidently screw up or something. COMIC ALERT (Normal): You must use all of the seven levers in the level. Hey, I didn't make this thing, you know! Instead of going to door number 7, go to door number 3 and behind the train you'll find the comic. Boy, do I hate this level. Oh well, Jump on the train and hop over the electronic door. Cuz that's the only way you get pas t it. Now follow the spidey compass to the power room. There is freon webbing near the crane so just incase you want to give some enemies a chilly night. Now go to the Power Room and shoot the switch. Then go over to door #1 and then go into the control room there. Shoot all three switches there and then go through door #2 because the other one is jammed. Now go through door #5 once your in the next area. Just keep on going straight and you should find a the second control room. Shoot the two switches. Then go back and exit that area. Now go back into the little room and go through door #7. Then you should be done. WHAT IF MODE: The barrels are now bananas. And there is a huge banana on the train. Hah! Oh, God, not Sandman. I hate him. Ok, just keep on going straight and focus on the train and not Sandman. If you try to defeat him he'll slither away and go regenerate his health bar. He makes huge sand walls so you can't reach the train. Just keep on swinging - It's the fastest way to do this level. Now there isn't time to look for a comic book looking like Amazing Fantasy 15, Right? Uh huh. To put it clearly, Sandman: ignore. Train: focus. Ok, take out the two thugs in front of you, then a hostage should yell 'help'. He's trapped in the elevator. L1 target the ceiling. You should see an air vent. Web-yank it off the ceiling and zip line up it. Crawl through it and you should see a unstable elevator. L2 target the unstable cable and web it up. Then shoot the switch to free the hostage. COMIC ALERT (Hard): After solving the elevator puzzle, return to the first room to find the comic book. Then jump over to the brick wall on your left. Then you should see a passage. Go through it. Your spider-sense will tingle, then two goons will come running toward you. Web them up and go into the next room. There is two hostages and one goon. Take the bad guy out, then free the hostages. COMIC ALERT (all difficultes): Under the photocopy machine, there is a comic. Then go past the hallway and enter the next room, and there some hostages there. Beat up the three goons, then free the hostages. You want to get to the next floor? Well then it's going to be tricky. Go behind the big bookshelf and then L2 target the big air vent that's on the ceiling. Then web-zip up there and crawl through there. Then drop onto the next floor. There is a bad guy guarding there so just take him out. Then go forward and there is a hostage and a guard. K- ill him and free the hostage. Then go straight and two thugs will come out of nowhere and attack you. Kill them and go straight. You should come to two locked doors. Impact web one of them, and free the two hostages inside. Then repeat it with the other door and free the hostages. Now, go to the exit, which is only left of you, to finish the level. Hammerhead kind of seems like the rhino in the previous game... Oh well. It's a sequel, y'know? WHAT IF MODE: When Hammerhead charges and bashes his head into the wall, he'll start cussing. Not bad though. He is almost invincible with his dang machine gun. Just webyank it out of his hands and then watch out, because he might charge at you. Then he'll run to his machine gun and pick it up again. Just beat him up before he reaches it. That way he'll lose health. Go over to the other side of the building where the bar is. COMIC ALERT (Hard): Hop on the bar and pick up the closed sign three times, then the comic will pop out. When you try and beat him with his machine gun, he'll take very little damage. Later probably when he has half life, he should charge and break a window (i can see the repair bill on that damage, Hammerhead!) and now you have to finish the battle with him. Now just repeat the whole dang web-yanking machine gun process I just said. Then just defeat him. Once you begin the level, hop over the bar and then some stupid robot will damage one of the boilers. Shoot web at the red switch and then ANOTHER robot will damage a boiler. Do the same thing. Then there is only one more boiler, so just repeat that process. COMIC ALERT (easy): After you finish the boiler puzzle head up the ramp and on that walkway you will find the comic. Now, go to the hallway and go through it. There will be a cutscene where spidey says that there is huge turbin- es that will kill you if you don't shut them off. Go from the far right of the turbines and then you should see a machine that will shut down the lazer grid to the control room. You'll need to press [],O,/\ in the center to turn off the lazers. WHAT IF MODE: Instead of pressing []O and /\, you can play ping pong! Sometimes ping pong stops dead for no reason. Once you've shut down the lazer grid, go past it and go to the controls room. Shoot the switch on your ri ght, then shoot the switch on your left. Then go back into the big room and hop on top of one of the turbines. Then zip-line up there and crawl through. Now, drop into the next room and go to the control room to get through that door. Zip onto the ceiling and make sure not to accidently crawl into one of the lazers (Ow!) Then once you've made it to the other side, shoot the two switches and go back the way you COMIC ALERT (kid mode): After you finish both lazer grid puzzles, return to the air vents and on the spot where the health Icon is, you'll find the comic. Now, go through door #2 and finish the level. Once the cutscene finishes DO NOT move one bit. Zip-line up and you should reach a platform. Climb onto the top of it and then turn around. Shoot the red switch that's right there, then drop down from that platform onto the walkway you were just on. COMIC ALERT (Hard): Under the first bridge you should see an alcove, inside the alcove is the comic book. Then go through that door and turn left. You should see another locked door. Shoot web onto the red switch and go through that area. Oh boy, drone generators, just L2 target them and Imapact web them. Then hop over that machine and shoot the red switch. Then exit that area and go to the next area. Once your in area 2, if your on a tougher difficulty you better be stealthy to the lazer turrets. Just Impact web them two teimes and you should blow them up. Once you blow all four of them up, jump up and shoot the switch up there, then jump down and shoot the switch down here. Then exit Area 2, and enter Area 3. Now this is one hard area. You'll see a big force feild blocking your way. Go over to the machine and press /\ until it's all the way up, then press O or [] and then press X to exit. Now impact web and blow up the drones, and once they're gone, shoot web at the three switches when the force feilds down, then shoot the red switch over there. Now, just exit that area and go through the door. COMIC ALERT (Normal): After you finish all the puzzles, return to the very first bridge to find the comic book. Ok, this level is a little hard on the normal and hard difficulties. It has to involve switch pressing. This level has four parts, devided by all those smashing jaw doors. First, Jump over the smashing doors at the beginning when they're open, then shoot the two switches to shut down the dangerous stuff. Make sure not to accidently jump into one of the lazers (Ow) Then go past and make it to the second floor and you should see some buttons. Each area is like this, so just make sure you don't get zapped by any lazers, or get shot by any of those stupid drones. Then make your way up to the third area. COMIC ALERT (Normal): In the third area, DO NOT touch one button. Climb up as far as you can, then there is a ledge. On top of it is the comic. Then make your way up to the fourth area, shoot the switches and go up. You should find the door there. This level is a bit of a pain at the beginning. Go over to the computer and you'll need to finish the antidote that Dr. Conners has been working on. You'll need to make three vats. You'll need to use [], /\ and O to do it. DO NOT SCREW UP! You'll have to restart the level if you do. This is pretty tough on hard mode. When the time runs out, Lizard will break through the wall and throw you into the next room. If you did the serum puzzle right, you should see one canister of it once you get up. Now, grab the canister and blast the lizard. Then run over to him and start beating the heck out of him. Repeat this, because this will not work if you don't blast him with serum shots. There is health in the third room. COMIC ALERT (Hard): After you do the serum puzzle, Go to the third room and be quick, then you'll find the comic. There is also health in the second room, too, if you need it. COMIC ALERT (Hard): On a ledge at the back of the building you start on. Now this is when those lazer turrets get REALLY annoying. Always follow the lazer that points to you, then shut it down. This isn't a really hard level, unless you like to get burnt up by stupid police lazer turrets. Then you should see a huge anttena and there is four lazer turrets below it. Just shut down the thing. COMIC ALERT (Normal): Go behind the building with the huge anttena. On the ledge going to the next building is the comic book. Now, sooner or later you should go to the last tower, it's the one without any lazer turrets. COMIC ALERT (Easy): On the ledge of the back of this building, is the comic book. Now, all you have to do is shut down the last one and follow your compass to Dr. Watt's lab. Ok, in this level, always trust your spider-sense or you'll get some serious sand in spidey's tights. There is health near the barrels if you need it. Now, Sandman is vincible to water, right? Well there is a water pump. Go over to the vaulve that has a sign on it. Shoot web on it, then wait until the pressure gets full. Now, go over to one of the vaulves, but not the one you just shot, though, and then start blasting sandman up with water and start beating him up at the same time while he's wet you can quick snag a COMIC ALERT (all difficulties): Go on top of the unfinished building, and then hop onto the crane and there is the Now, after your done snagging that comic, run over to the vaulve and get the pressure back up again. Then repeat the same thing and while he's wet, snag another comic... COMIC ALERT (Easy): Under the portable toilet, is the comic. Now just keep on making him wet and beating him up, and you should kill him. Once you begin the level, the easiest way to defeat the samuri is to just web them up. They'll blow up, so just keep on doing this. You should see a health bar on the upper right corner of the screen. Now, pick up a samuri peice and go to the center room. Now throw it at the thing that's blocking the generator. It should knock it off, now just go and keep on beating samuri and throw their pieces at the generator to blow it up. Just go in the different rooms, one room will have a huge budda statue and two samuri. COMIC ALERT (Easy): Behind the buddha statue, is the comic book. Now just blow up the generator and level complete. I think this level is a pain because at first I kept on getting zapped and falling to the floor. Now, Just keep on crawling past the lighting rings before they zap you. And also, dodge all of the lighting rain that Electro shoots at you. Then sooner or later you should reach the Ice Age level, your halfway through, so don't screw up COMIC ALERT (Normal): Inside the dino picture is the comic. Just crawl past it and make sure not to get zapped. I use to think this level was really hard - Until I just realized it was easier than heck. Sooner or later AGAIN, you should reach the last exhibit level. COMIC ALERT (Easy): On this exhibit level, on top of the car sticking out of the wall is the Now just flip over the fence and you complete the level. Electro, Finally! After 22 levels in the game we finally get to kick Electro's shocking butt. I think this was one of the easiest boss battles, not to brag, but it was downright easy for me. Just activate web spikes and hop onto the platform and pound the heck out of Electro. He should blow you off, but just keep on repeating that. Now go onto the earth model for a comic. COMIC ALERT (Normal): On top of the earth model, which is tough to get to, is the comic. Now just beat up Electro and finish the level! 24) THE BEST LAID PLANS (Top of the world) Ok, now you have to defeat Hyper-Electro. First, before you do anything, run over and hop on top of the tower. Take out the generators so Electro can't recharge his health bar and take you out. Now, go over to the other part of the tower and go over to the generators. Now impact web the things on the sides and make Electro shoot at the generator. It will make him vincible! Go over to him and pound the heck out of him. If your on hard, DO NOT touch him when he's vincible or you'll get electricuted. Just impact web him. Then when he has half life or so, he should try to charge from the broken tower. The tower will fall over. COMIC ALERT (Hard): On the fallen part of the tower is the comic. COMIC ALERT (Kid Mode): On the tower you'll find a comic. Now just keep repeating that process. Here's a few tips I got to help you a little: 1. Stay away from Hyper-Electro 2. Do not touch Hyper-Electro 3. Remember #2 WHAT IF MODE: After you defeat Hyper-Electro there is a little "surprise" _ _ _ _ _ / ONGRATULATIONS! /_ _ _ _ _ _ Hyper-Electro is beaten. Hurray! Give yourself a high-five, now that you've beaten the game, you'll probably won't need a guide next time. But there is still so much more to do! 6) GALLERY - T H I N G S T O U N L O C K Now that you've beaten the game, there is lots of goodies and easter eggs to get. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Character Appears Spider-Man Load the game Henchman Enter the web-head Hired Goon Rooftops By Night Shocker Spidey Vs. Shocker Mercenary Smoke Screen Trainyard guard In Darkest Night Sandman Catch That Train! Gangster Gangland Hammerhead Spidey Vs. Hammerhead Flying Drone Spidey In The Machine Rolling Drone Mission: Spidey Scout Drone Spidey In The Machine The Lizard Spidey Vs. Lizard Animatronic Samuri Koni-Chiwa, Spider-San Electro Spidey Vs. Electro Hyper-Electro The Best Laid Plans Dr. Watts FMV "The Needle" Rogue Load the game Professor Xavier Load the game Beast Load the game _ _ _ _ _ _ _ \|MOVIE VIEWER \| Movie Appears ----- ------- Vicarious Visions Intro start game Previously on Spider-Man start game Prologue before Enter the webhead The City before Burglary Interuppted Warehouse 66 before Warehouse 66 Manners before Spidey Vs. Shocker Shockers Defeat after Spidey Vs. Shocker City Rooftops before Smoke Screen Police Ambush before Hangar 18 Hangar 18 before Wind Tunnel Daring Rescue after Wind Tunnel Darkness Falls before Catch That Train! A Hero no Longer after Catch That Train! Interlude before Gangland The Needle before Spidey Vs. Hammerhead The Plot Thickens after Spidey Vs. Hammerhead Sneaking In before Spidey In The Machine Mad Reptile before Spidey Vs. Lizard Repentance after Spidey Vs. Lizard Spidey to the rescue before Spidey Vs. Sandman Again Down the Drain after Spidey Vs. Sandman Again Boss... Look! after Spidey Vs. Sandman Again Spidey Monogatorio before koni-chiwa, spider-san Ascension before The Best Laid Plans Epilogue after The Best Laid Plans _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Captain America Foils Plot": Appears before Enter the webhead "Warehouse Theft A Bust": Die on Spidey Vs. Shocker "Rolling Blackouts": Appears after Spidey Vs. Shocker "Spider-Man Apprehended": Let the plane be destroyed on Wind Tunnel "Spider-Ambush": This has to be unlocked during the work of a cheat code or else you cannot unlock it. You enter DRKROOM as a cheat code for all gallery items. If your unlocking everything without codes, make sure to have all the other gallery items first. "Spider-Man Unmasked": Die or miss the train on Catch That Train! "Blackouts Continue": Appears after Catch That Train! "Ball Ruined 1": Die on Spidey Vs. Hammerhead "Ball Ruined 2": Appears after Spidey Vs. Hammerhead "Zeus Tear 1": Die on Spidey Vs. Lizard "Zeus Tear 2": Appears after Spidey Vs. Sandman Again "Spider-Man and Electro": Die on The Best Laid Plans "Thor Saves The City": Appears after The Best Laid Plans _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ \|COMIC COLLECTION\| Enter the Web-Head: Ultimate Spider-Man #1 Spectacular Spider-Man #197 Burglary Interuppted: Web of Spider-Man #100 Amazing Spider-Man,vol 2, #13 Rooftops By Night: Amazing Spider-Man #29 Warehouse 66: Peter Parker: Spider-Man #85 Spidey Vs. Shocker: Amazing Spider-Man #13 Hangar 18: Peter Parker: Spider-Man #92 Wind Tunnel: Peter Parker: Spider-Man #90 To catch a thief: Amazing Spider-Man #185 In Darkest Night: Spectacular Spider-Man #20 Heart Of Darkness: Peter Parker: Spider-Man vol 2, #22 Gangland: Amazing Spider-Man #21 Spectacular Spider-Man #220 Spidey Vs. Hammerhead: Amazing Spider-Man #114 Spidey In The Machine: Amazing Spider-Man, vol 2, #30 Amazing Spider-Man, Annual, #21 Mission: Spidey: Amazing Spider-Man, Annual #21, alternate version Spider-Man #25 The Corkscrew: Amazing Spider-Man #341 Spidey Vs. Lizard: Amazing Spider-Man #44 The Gauntlet: Spectacular Spider-Man #66 Amazing Spider-Man #425 Amazing Spider-Man #217 Spidey Vs. Sandman Again: Amazing Spider-Man #4 Peter Parker: Spider-Man, vol 2, #16 Koni-Chiwa, Spider-San: Amazing Spider-Man, vol 2, 2001 Annual Rock Of Ages: Amazing Spider-Man #422 Spectacular Spider-Man #258 Spidey Vs. Electro: Amazing Spider-Man #9 The Best Laid Plans: Spider-Man #38 Peter Parker: Spider-Man, vol 2, #2 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ \|PARKER'S PORTFOLIO \| Each time you win a boss battle, you will get a picture added to your portfolio in the gallery. You will get 12 pictures by Kaare Andrews from beating the game on Easy and Kid Mode. You will get 6 pictures from Mark Bagley from beating the game on Normal. And you'll get 6, beutiful black-and-white, ink and pencil, pictures from John Romita Sr. one of the greatest Spidey Artists. 7) C O S T U M E S / C H E A T S A) COSTUMES: Spider-Man (Powers: No enhanced game powers) Unlock: Load the game Spider-Pheniox (Powers: Invincibility, Enhanced Stregnth, Enhanced Unlock: Beat the game on hard Prodigy (Powers: Enhanced Stregnth, Double Jump Height, Enhanced Web-swing) Unlock: Beat 75 thugs in Attack Challenge mode. Dusk (Power: Stealth) Unlock: Collect all 32 comic books Insulated Suit (Powers: Enhanced Stregnth, Gets half damage from Unlock: Beat the Lizard on any difficulty (including Kid Mode) and only use serum shots on him Alex Ross--Red (Power: Double Jump Height) Unlock: Beat the Sandman (Spidey Vs. Sandman Again) On Hard Alex Ross--White (Power: Enhanced Web-swing) Unlock: Beat the game on Kid Mode Venom 2--Earth X (Power: Enhanced Stregnth, Unlimited Webbing) Unlock: Beat the game on Normal Negative Zone (Power: No enhanced game powers) Unlock: Beat the level 'Smoke Screen' on Normal - Without going back and fourth to restore time Symbiote Spider-Man (Power: Unlimited Webbing) Unlock: Beat the game on easy Spider-Man 2099 (Power: Enhanced Stregnth) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Captain Universe (Powers: Enhanced Stregnth, Unlimited Webbing, Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Spider-Man Unlimited (Power: Stealth) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Amazing Bag Man (Power: Can only carry 2 web cartridges) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Scarlet Spider (Power: No enhanced game powers) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Ben Reilly (Power: No enhanced game powers) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Quick Change Spidey (Power: Can only carry 2 web cartridges) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Peter Parker (Power: Can only carry 2 web cartridges) Unlock: Beat the game two times on Normal or Hard Battle Damaged (Power: No enhanced game powers) Unlock: Beat Electro for the first time B) CHEAT CODES: Unlock Everything: "AUNTMAY" Level Select: "NONJYMNT" Programmer High Scores: VVHISCRS Big Head Mode: ALIEN Big Feet Mode: STACEYD What-If? Mode: VVISIONS Unlock All Training Levels: CEREBRA Unlock All Costumes: WASHMCHN Unlock all Gallery Items: DRKROOM Debug Mode: DRILHERE Cursing Code: Enter a bad word and Spidey will pop up, hit the code and it will change to a nice word. This does nothing else. It's pretty funny though. 8) S P E C I A L T H A N K S --Thanks to EBgames for selling me this game --Thanks to my brother, Jeremy, for letting me use his playstation --Thanks to my Mom and Dad for renting me this game before I bought it --Thanks to JC, since he's my best -Thanks to Vicarious Visions for developing this wonderful game. --Thanks to Activision for publishing this -Thanks to everybody else I know, as well as they helped me write this in --Thanks to YOU, for actually reading this FAQ, unless you didn't like it "Until next time, True Beilevers! Excelsior!" - Stan "The Man" Lee	http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/476504-spider-man-2-enter-electro/faqs/23333	<urn:uuid:9675d5f3-6e2e-43a4-a33b-0f7328b6a170>	en	0.875992	0.088851
Printer Friendly Version ] [ Report Abuse ] << >> Harry Potter and the Time of Second Chances by Neville James Chapter 16 : A Night to Forget Rating: 12+Chapter Reviews: 15 Background: Font color: Chapter 16: A Night to Forget Harry continued to gape at the approaching figures from where he and Marc were concealed behind a shrub. Everything around him went unearthly quiet, but Harry knew that in a matter of moments the air would be filled with threats and pleas. Marc watched his older roommate with wide and worried eyes as he stared at the newcomers as though they were ghosts, trembling uncontrollably. He tried to calm him and placed a hand on his shoulder, hoping that he might get a few answers as well. As soon as he had touched Harry he opened his mouth to speak and was abruptly cut off as Harry’s hand flew to his mouth, covering it firmly. Harry lifted a finger to his own mouth signalling his wish for silence, and shook his head vehemently as though it was a matter of life and death. Marc stared into Harry’s eyes and saw the immense fear that swam there, something unheard of for Harry Potter. Seeing the Boy-who-lived quake with such fear finally told Marc who was standing outside that cottage. He too stumbled back a bit and his eyes widened in fear and shock. His own eyes though, reflected an equal amount of anger as they did fear. He understood why Harry looked so afraid and was now filled with pity for his friend; Harry was not afraid of Lord Voldemort, but he was downright terrified of what he was going to be forced to watch. Marc set a determined look on his face before reaching into his robes and slowly pulling out his wand. Harry, noticing this, once again jutted his arm out and grabbed Marc’s hand, shaking his head determinedly. Marc couldn’t take it. How could he just sit there and do nothing, knowing that his parents would soon be murdered before his very eyes? ‘What are you doing?’ Marc hissed in barely a whisper. ‘You can save them! Warn them. Tell them to apparate or something.’ He was beginning to sound frantic as Harry simply sat and stared at him. ‘I can’t,’ he finally said. ‘I wish I could, but if that monster sees either of us, do you know what kind of damage could be done? How history could be changed?’ ‘Yeah, you would have your parents right now and you wouldn’t be the most famous wizard in the world. Sounds terrible,’ Marc said angrily, as though it was a very simple decision. Harry shook his head again defiantly, tears forming in his eyes. ‘If my mum doesn’t die protecting me, Voldemort won’t fall. What kind of world would we live in then?’ he asked in a shaky voice. ‘Don’t you think I’d rather live with them? Not have to worry about being chased by Death eaters for the rest of my Life? It just wouldn’t work. I’ve played it over and over in my head. If they got away it wouldn’t change anything. He would just keep chasing them until he caught them again, maybe tomorrow or next week. And then we might not be that lucky.’ Marc didn’t like the idea of doing nothing but remained silent now as he and Harry ducked lower, waiting for the inevitable. Not two seconds later, the pair felt the bush move slightly as Voldemort walked quietly passed them and up to the front door. If he had simply turned his head slightly to the left he would have seen the boy he had come for. Harry could see him clearly now from where he crouched, unable to look away. Voldemort raised his wand with grim satisfaction, and with a downward slash and no audible curse, the thick brown door was blown off of its hinges allowing him to step over the threshold. The next few moments were unbearable for Harry as he heard Voldemort’s voice threaten his father. He had been taken aback at how deep and human his voice had sounded. Apparently when the Dark Lord was first in power he had been much more Tom Riddle than Voldemort. ‘There is really no point, James. I will get what I came for.’ ‘You will never lay a finger on my family. You’re just a monster and you’ll never win, not with Dumbledore around!’ Harry heard a loud growl after the last comment. Voldemort had clearly already feared Dumbledore at this time. ‘There are no monsters James, just people who are willing to do anything for power, and those too weak to stop them. I offer you the chance to join me. You would do well as a Death Eater.’ Harry began to shake again and his breathing grew ragged. Not from fear, but rage at the thought of his father ever being associated with Death Eaters. ‘I’ll die before I join you,’ he heard his father shout in utter disgust, and felt that his father had probably said far fewer things with such adamancy. ‘Easily arranged,’ came Voldemort’s response. ‘ Goodbye, Potter. Avada Kedavra!’ Harry tensed at hearing these words spoken and closed his eyes when he saw the bright green light glow from the doorway and momentarily light up the fog that had begun to form around the home. Not a second later he heard the heavy thud of James Potter’s body hitting the floor. Marc looked near shell-schocked as he watched the tears swell in his friends eyes, unable to help or comfort him in any way. Another minute passed as the boys listened for what they knew would come next, but the pause seemed to go on forever. Harry cautiously lifted himself up and looked carefully into the window. He recoiled the instant he saw his father’s body heaped at the base of the staircase. It was not that he had never seen a dead body before, but the glassy empty look of his father’s eyes cut through him deeply and hurt more than he had anticipated. Harry landed back next to Marc on the grass and leaned his back on a tree, attempting to get a hold on his breathing and keeping his lids tightly shut. Marc reached out a hand to console his new best friend, but was stopped suddenly by a new set of screams piercing the air. Two adults and one infant. ‘No, not Harry! Please not Harry!’ Lily Potter’s voice carried out onto the street, terrified and full of tears. Harry closed his eyes tighter and tried to block it from his mind. He could hear his younger self’s muffled cries from where he was undoubtedly being held against his mother’s chest. ‘Get out of the way you foolish girl!’ Voldemort’s voice hissed scathingly. ‘No! Not Harry, take me instead!’ Lily screamed as though she thought it might hold him off longer. ‘There is no instead,’ the cold voice said, filled with amusement. ‘Avada Kedavra!’ Harry started to shake again as the scream he had so often heard in his dreams sounded all around him, louder than he could have ever imagined, threatening to pierce his eardrums and shatter the window above him. Just as quickly as it had started, the scream ended, and the boys were once again met with a hollow thud. Marc winced as he pictured the redhead hitting the floor and then heard the clear cries of a baby, now helpless and completely vulnerable to the monster that stood before it. Marc pulled himself up to sit beside Harry and squeezed his arm as a show of support. He fell back in surprise when Harry flung his eyes open and quickly got to his feet, leaving a gaping Marc to scramble up after him. ‘Are you insane, Harry! Get back here!’ he hissed at the raven-haired boy as he walked out from behind the bush. ‘ I hate to be insensitive, but they’re already gone. You made your decision.’ ‘Yeah, but he’s not,’ came Harry’s cold reply, his face now determinedly set as he turned back toward the doorway. ‘And I’m going to watch this. I deserve to see this much,’ he added with such resolve that Marc took pause. ‘You can’t Harry, what about the other Death Eater?’ he tried to reason and stepped out to grab Harry’s arm. Harry never got the chance to answer though, as an unearthly shriek filled the air followed by the most blinding green light Harry had ever seen. Both he and Marc shut their eyes and threw their hands up to cover their ears. Not a second later, they were both thrown backward into the bush by a thundering explosion that shook the cottage to its core, and they both felt heavy debris landing on and around them. They lay immobile for a few moments, unsure of what to do. Marc was the first to open his eyes and push the large slab of wood off his legs to turn and check on Harry. He too opened his eyes and the sight set before them was one that neither of them would ever forget. The once welcoming cottage now lay in a smouldering heap of rubble, all but two of the walls having crumbled away helplessly at the explosion. Most of the furniture in the home popped and crackled as they were engulfed in green flames, each bit of fire dancing victoriously as it burned. The bodies of James and Lily Potter remained intact and exactly in the places they had fallen, looking to the rest of the world as though they had fallen to sleep and not been viciously murdered. What bothered Marc the most, was not the ring of flames burning ominously around the destroyed home, or the immediate threat of Death Eaters around them, or even the sight of his best friend’s parents laying dead and wide-eyed before him. What tugged at his heart was the sight among the wreckage and the sound that met his ears. Where the cottage had once been the focal point in a beautiful valley, a scared and crying infant now drew attention in the middle of chaos and destruction. A lone child with a small lightning shaped cut on his forehead sat crying and bleeding among the remains of his home and family, helpless and confused. The Dark Lord had been vanquished, but for this child the worst had already been done. Voldemort had made him suffer more than he would ever know. The boy was now alone, without parents, without safety, and without love. He had vanquished the Dark Lord and saved the wizarding world but at great personal cost. He had done a great deed for society without ever trying and would not know it for another ten years. This was the day his suffering began. He was the boy who lived. Marc turned to Harry to indicate that they should get away quickly before someone saw them, and was shocked to find him moving toward the rubble. Harry walked quickly and meaningfully toward his parents’ bodies, first his father’s and then his mother’s. He sadly reached out a hand and swiftly swept their eyes closed, letting tears drop quietly onto the ground as he did. Then he made his way to his younger self and crouched down low beside the baby. He knew he didn’t have long before Hagrid would appear, and then Sirius. ‘It’s alright, Harry,’ he said quietly, reaching out a hand to console the child. Marc tried to stop him as he watched him remove his wand and point it at him. Harry muttered something quietly and Marc watched as the blood left the infant’s face and in it’s place sat a fresh, red scar. ‘Don’t worry,’ Harry told his younger self in a hushed and caring voice, ‘everything will be alright. One day you’ll know what happened and you’ll be proud.’ He paused for a moment and leaned down to look into his own emerald eyes. ‘And you’ll be loved.’ The infant stopped crying and stared at him in interest before reaching a tiny arm into the air and placing his hand on Harry’s identical scar. ‘I know,’ Harry said sadly before leaning forward and kissing him on the forehead, ‘but it will all be alright, I promise.’ Harry stood up then and turned his back on the child to rush toward a disbelieving Marc. As soon as he was standing next to him he pulled the Time Turner out of his shirt and watched as Marc picked up his invisibility cloak. ‘Let’s get out of here, Harry,’ Marc said pleadingly. ‘Just one more second,’ he said and watched the scene intently from where they stood behind a tree. Not ten seconds passed when Hagrid appeared out of thin air, having travelled by portkey, and quickly took in the scene around him. Harry heard the wracking sobs coming from the half-giant and fought hard to hold back the rest of his own tears. Marc suggested they should leave again but stopped when he heard a loud rumbling above them. Only Marc was surprised to see a giant motorbike fly low in front of them before landing next to Hagrid. The next few minutes were tense as the boys watched Hagrid and Sirius’s exchange before Hagrid mounted the motorbike with the infant tucked in his arms and flew off into the night. Marc glared venomously at Sirius, but Harry watched him through caring eyes and shared his pain. He felt a sharp pain in his chest at seeing Sirius yell into the night furiously after kneeling next to his best friend’s body. The last thing he saw of his Godfather was him apparating away, and he felt guilty for not preventing his going to Azkaban. As Marc’s third plea to go home reached his ears, Harry placed the Time Turner around the other boy’s neck and reached down to spin the dial. Marc lifted his wand at the same time to activate their portkey and Harry shouted for him to stop but it was no use. The dial had been spun and the portkey activated. Harry’s eyes widened abruptly as the last thing he saw before the spinning commenced was a familiar face in the woods fifty meters away. Severus Snape. The travelling was not at all like the last few trips they had taken. If Harry had thought the portkey travel was sickening then this would surely have him sick all over. He felt the sensation of a hook behind his navel pull him up before the colours around him began to swirl and go black as they had done before. Things and people swirled by them once more, but this time at a far faster pace and it was even harder to try and focus as they were being thrown around instead of simply standing. Finally the swirling stopped and the pair was dropped heavily onto a hard stone floor. Harry took a few deep breaths before opening his eyes and taking in their surroundings. He stood up and saw that they were in fact back at Hogwarts and in the Astronomy tower. Everything looked to be right and the trip had felt as though both devices had worked correctly. He reached a hand out and helped Marc to his feet. ‘Thanks. It’s good to be home,’ he said with a small smile and looked at Harry for any sign of a response. Harry gave a half-hearted smile but said nothing before turning to the door and heading down the steps. Neither of them spoke again until they had reached the third floor. ‘If it’s possible, Marc, I’d really rather if we never-’ he was cut off by his friend nodding adamantly. ‘Ever. You have my word,’ the curly-haired boy said with a solemn expression that conveyed his intentions. The boys walked along the hallways quietly after that, both understanding without the need for words, that what they had just witnessed was undoubtedly a night to forget. They walked silently to the end of the third floor staircase, casually waving at the many occupants of the portraits they passed, and soon found themselves standing in front of the fat lady. ‘Murtlap Sap,’ Harry said unenthusiastically, and waited for the portrait to swing forward so that he might crawl into his bed and never think of this night again. The portrait didn’t open. ‘I said Murtlap Sap,’ he tried again, this time louder and with annoyance at obviously having been ignored. ‘I’m sorry dear, but that is not the password. If you could just be on your way now,’ the fat lady said and looked away from him again. ‘I will not be on my way. Murtlap sap was the password this morning. If Hermione’s changed it again,’ he went on, his anger now boiling up after the night he had experienced. ‘I’m sorry, but that was never the password dear. Now kindly step away.’ Marc sighed deeply at being kept from his bed this late at night. He really did not feel like sleeping on the cold floor out in the corridors, but he would do that over finding McGonagall at this hour to let them in. ‘You let me in!’ Harry cried now, unable to control his anger, and stepped forward to bang his fists loudly on her frame. ‘Ron! Hermione! Let us in! The wench won’t open up.’ The boys heard the bustling of people on the other side and were relieved when the portrait finally swung open. Unfortunately, Harry was unprepared for what he saw and promptly fainted, unable to handle the shock. The last thing he saw before falling over was the equally shocked face of a sixteen-year-old James Potter. Harry opened his eyes with great effort to look around and find out what he had actually just seen, hoping against all odds that his eyes were playing tricks on him. He was surprised to find that he was no longer outside the Gryffindor common room, but seated in the Headmaster’s office directly across from a staring Dumbledore. He was dismayed as he took in the Headmaster’s younger appearance, the absence of many fine lines and wrinkles and the slivers of light brown still found in his hair and beard. The one thing that remained the same, Harry noticed, was the twinkle in the old man’s blue eyes. He found that Marc was sitting next to him and looking at the floor, looking extremely culpable and avoiding Dumbledore’s eyes. He looked at the boy next to Marc and nearly fainted again. It was his father. James Potter sat perfectly still, watching his perfect mirror image, save for the eyes, with a shrouded expression. ‘Perhaps I should start,’ Dumbledore said in his regular calm and collected way, no indication of anger. They watched as he lifted a large glass bowl off his desk and held it out toward them with a warm smile. ‘Lemon drop?’ he offered. Both new arrivals shook their heads, but James was quick to reach in and pop one in his mouth. ‘You two are new, are you not?’ Dumbledore then continued and also enjoyed one of the sweets. ‘I have yet to see you within the walls of Hogwarts, therefore I can only assume that you are new. Is this the case?’ he asked with a merry glint in his eyes. Marc continued to look at the ground, fiercely ignoring the old man and clearly intent on preventing the timeline from changing. Harry looked back to the Headmaster and offered what he felt would be the best explanation, feeling certain that he and Marc would not be able to avoid Dumbledore without telling him something. ‘Yes sir, we are new. Well, new to this school. We just came from Durmstrang, sir,’ he continued and was surprised to see the sudden look of disgust on James’ face at hearing this news. ‘I assumed that you would have spoken to our old Headmaster,’ he continued, trying his best to ignore the glares he and Marc were now receiving. Once done speaking, he gave a sidelong glance at James before giving Dumbledore a meaningful look. Dumbledore gave the slightest of smiles before continuing. ‘I see, well then I suppose we shall have to have you sorted and you will receive your timetables in the morning,’ he said as though this sort of thing was a daily occurrence at Hogwarts. Harry snorted when he realised that it was. ‘Are you serious, Professor!’ James now said angrily, his chair falling loudly behind him as he stood up, clearly unimpressed. ‘You’re just going to let a couple of strangers join the school? A couple of strangers who claim to come from the dark wizarding school and who just happened to know where Gryffindor tower was?’ Dumbledore simply looked up at the agitated youth, an unfaltering expression on his face. If anything, Harry thought that the gleam in his eyes had brightened, leading him to struggle to suppress a smirk. ‘Yes James, I am. It does seem odd that they knew the location of Gryffindor tower, but I assure you that not all wizards from Durmstrang are evil. Unless of course you consider Professor Vector’s lessons to be questionable.’ The corners of his mouth lifted slightly as he suggested this. ‘And I remind you James, that when you first arrived at Hogwarts for your first year, you too were a stranger.’ The tone Dumbledore used was not harsh or punitive, but it did carry a sense of finality, leading James to cross his arms and lean back in his seat with an indignant sniff from his nostrils. ‘Now James, if you could please go back to your dormitory, I have to welcome our new students to the castle. Do please keep this to yourself until tomorrow morning at breakfast.’ It was clear to all those in the room that this was not a request, so James nodded grudgingly and gave both boys a skeptical glance before heading from the office. As soon as Harry was sure that James was out of hearing distance he perked up significantly and felt better knowing that he did not have to worry about slipping any future secrets. ‘Thank you Professor Dumbledore, I’m so relieved you’ll allow us to be sorted in the morning,’ Harry said, knowing full well that in a matter of minutes he and Marc would be leaving and going back to their own time, making the entire ordeal quite unnecessary. ‘Well, I believe it’s the least I could do for my future students,’ the Headmaster said with a raised eyebrow. ‘Now tell me, how exactly do you intend on getting back to your own time?’ He seemed overly amused by this. Harry let his jaw drop and Marc’s head flew up at hearing what the old man said. How could he have possibly known they were from the future. ‘I did not give you my name, and yet you already knew it. You also called me Professor. I think it safe to assume that you will one day be students under my direction,’ he smiled at Harry’s shocked face. ‘And then there’s what’s left of that contraption around your neck.’ Now Harry and Marc both looked at the Time Turner that hung low against Harry’s robes, not having been tucked back under upon their arrival, and were disturbed to find a small ball of melted gold. ‘No!’ Marc said loudly, letting his head drop into his hands dramatically with a groan. ‘We’re never going to get out of here now. My mum’s going to kill me... if we ever get home. Not to mention McGonagall!’ Harry took a moment before speaking again, now with a reassuring smile on his face. ‘Don’t worry, Marc. I’m sure the Headmaster will lend us his Time Turner to get home, isn’t that right Professor?’ Dumbledore looked at him curiously, his calm expression still in place. ‘Don’t you get it, Harry?’ Marc shouted at him, ‘Time Turners aren’t readily available outside of the Department of Mysteries for another twelve years. We’re stuck here!’ Harry looked sticken. Dumbledore continued to look at them curiously as he thought about their predicament. ‘Well, I believe the best I can do is to allow my offer to stand. You shall join the other students in their lessons tomorrow after you have been sorted. There’s no need for you to miss out on your education while I try to find a way to send you home. What year are you two in?’ he added with mild curiosity as he conjured some forms from a shelf high above. ‘I’m from sixth and Marc’s from fifth,’ Harry said casually. ‘Marc is it?’ Dumbledore said with a raised eyebrow, reminding both boys that they had still not introduced themselves. ‘Yes sir, Marcus Evans,’ he said quietly and held out a hand to shake the Headmaster’s. ‘You wouldn’t be son to one Lily Evans, would you?’ he asked, one eyebrow still inclined. ‘No sir,’ he said with the first laugh in hours and a glance at Harry, who also shared the joke. ‘I’m afraid you’ve got the wrong one.’ ‘I’m Harry, sir, Harry Potter. And Lily Evans is my mother.’ Dumbledore leaned back in his seat and smiled at this news. His eyes seemed to shine more fiercely than ever before. He was pleased. ‘Very well. I’m afraid I’ll have to ask you not to tell me any more about the future. It is quite enough that you have been seen by your father, Harry. I’ll assume it is safe to say you are both Gryffindors?’ ‘Yes, Professor.’ Harry said, and then stole a sidelong glance at the Sorting Hat, peacefully sitting on a high shelf muttering quietly to itself. ‘Is it possible not to be sorted tomorrow, Professor? I’m afraid that if the hat reads my mind it may be catastrophic. Lately it’s been giving the school warnings in the form of songs, and I rather doubt you wish to hear the future spilled about the Great Hall. I take it the students wouldn’t take well to hearing Voldemort’s name sung aloud.’ Dumbledore’s eyes widened at hearing this and then darkened significantly. ‘Sorry professor,’ Harry said quickly, realising that he had just informed the Headmaster and Head of the Order of the Pheonix that the Dark Lord was still around in eighteen years. ‘I won’t mention it again.’ ‘Very good, Mister Potter. You and Mr. Evans shall join Gryffindor in the morning and I shall take care of the rest. To the rest of the students you will be exchange wizards from Durmstrang and we will find you suitable names by then. In the mean time, do you wish to join the Gryffindors tonight?’ ‘I think it best if we wait. I know of the perfect room, sir,’ he said with a wink at his friend. ‘On the seventh floor perhaps?’ Dumbledore smiled knowingly and Harry nodded with a small grin. ‘Very well, I shall see you both at breakfast before you join your classes,’ he said before dismissing them. Marc and Harry walked quietly to the seventh floor corridor where Harry knew he would find a hanging of Barnabas the Barmey teaching trolls to do the ballet. They walked past an empty spot on the wall opposite the hanging a few times thinking hard of how badly they would like to get to sleep. Moments later the familiar brass door handle appeared and the pair walked into what looked like their Gryffindor dormitory. Two four-posters sat in the middle of the room, and at the base of each bed sat their trunks. Harry couldn’t believe how thorough the room could be. He walked over to the window at the back of the room and looked over the grounds. The forest was just as dark as it had ever been and Hagrid’s hut stood out in the inky dark, its windows glowing brightly from the fire burning inside the small home. Harry quietly said goodnight to his roommate before pulling the hangings shut and laying down for a restless night’s sleep. He tried hard to clear his mind of everything that had happened in the past few hours, but found it absolutely impossible. He could still see his parents’ lifeless eyes, and hear his mother’s heart shattering scream, but what he remembered most vividly was feeling the little Harry place his hand on his scar. He closed his eyes tightly and only let a few tears fall before falling asleep. Tonight, he did not dream. Harry was awakened the next morning by Marc moving around the room in a flurry, trying to get his school robes on and taming his hair, his nerves clearly putting him on edge. It was the second time in two months he had joined Hogwarts as an exchange student from Durmstrang and was evidently not looking forward to going through the change again. ‘We’re already late for breakfast. There’s only about twenty minutes until lessons begin!’ he shouted at Harry who looked like he could easily have slept another week if left undisturbed. A few minutes later, Harry was hurtling down the corridors next to his roommate until they stopped dead in front of the Great Hall. The doors were shut and Harry didn’t feel like walking in late. He received more than enough attention in his own time, and certainly did not need it in this one. They could hear the chatter and laughter of students on the other side, wafting through the thick ornate doors as though they were thin as parchment. ‘I’ll go first,’ Marc offered, and before Harry could reply he had pushed the doors open and strode in. Harry instantly heard the chatter die down and then restart in a hush of whispers. Harry took a deep breath and then followed his friend in, hoping that no one would think his scar odd. The instant he entered the hall, silence fell again, but was soon punctured by gasps and several confused questions. He traversed the hall quickly to meet his smiling friend, hearing snippets of conversation as he walked past the house tables. It appeared that his scar was the last thing he should have worried about, his entire appearance being something far more interesting. ‘Who do you think they are? One looks like James Potter. Are they new students? I heard they were spies,’ he heard a couple of girls say. He shook his head and kept going, now with a grin plastered on his face. He reached the staff table and found that he recognized some of the professors, but not all. Dumbledore stood and cleared his throat to make an announcement. Harry smiled and chuckled to himself at seeing the Headmaster’s vivid blue, crimson, and emerald robes. Apparently Dumbledore had always had his eccentric and expensive tastes in clothing, making him by far the brightest clad object in the hall. Harry had his back turned on the professors and found that most of them were watching their backs intently, wanting to know exactly who they were. The look on the other professor’s faces told him that they had not yet been informed of the new arrivals. McGonagall in particular, looked far from pleased at being taken by surprise, her lips pulled thinly into a straight line and her dark eyes narrowed into mere slits as she surveyed them. ‘An announcement,’ Dumbledore started. ‘ I would like to introduce you to two of our new students, newly transferred from Durmstrang.’ Just as James had seemed offended by this news, most of the other students in the hall now appeared skeptical, not so hushed voices rushing through the crowd. ‘I am sure you will all make them feel welcome, and I ask that you please do not badger them with questions. I am sure they are quite tired from their journey. Now, Mr. Harry Portus and Mr. Marc Turner will be joining Gryffindor after our private sorting this morning, Harry in Sixth year, and Marc in fifth. Please join your table boys.’ The Gryffindor table roared in delight at gaining a couple of older students, some of the skepticism melting away, and even Professor McGonagall seemed pleased to hear this. He couldn’t wait to see the look on her face when she got a good look at him in class. ‘I’ve also been asked to remind certain students that dungbombs are clearly on the caretaker’s list of unacceptable Hogwarts items,’ he added with a small smile at the Gryffindor table before sitting back down. Harry and Marc hurried over to their new table and sat down next to a group of students that they did not know, each of them smiling and now patting the boys on the back in congratulations. Just to their left, Harry noticed a group of four boys watching him intently and smiled upon recognising them all. The Marauders watched them in silence for a while as the other students told the newcomers about what classes would be like and which professors to watch for. Finally they were handed their timetables by a seventh year boy with light brown hair and warm eyes. Harry instantly identified him as Giedeon Prewett, one of the original members of the Order and Mrs. Weasley’s older brother. ‘These will be your Timetables. It’s a pleasure to meet you,’ he said holding out his hand for them both to shake. ‘I’m Gideon Prewett, Head Boy.’ At this point, another seventh year boy stood and knocked the Head Boy out of the way, holding his hand out instead. ‘And I’m Fabian Prewett, the much better Prewett,’ the blonde boy offered, grinning at his twin. Many of the Gryffindors laughed at this and the brothers began to wrestle playfully in their seats. Harry smiled but was deeply saddened to see these two men alive and well, when he knew they would be murdered together by no less than five Death Eaters in less than three years time. After eating a quick breakfast, Marc and Harry were forced to say goodbye and headed to their separate classes, Marc to Care of Magical Creatures and Harry to Potions. Harry grumbled as he walked through the entrance hall, not wanting to have anything to do with this class, but knowing that he would have to put up with it until Dumbledore could send them home. He reached the Dungeons quickly and was, for one of the first times in his Hogwarts career, early for Potions. He sat up near the front of the class in his regular seat and waited for the Potions Master to arrive, undoubtedly ready to insult him like every other morning. Another minute passed before Harry heard the familiar sneer of Severus Snape and when he turned around to glare was caught off guard at seeing the sixteen-year-old sit down right next to him. ‘I’ll ask you to get away from my station … Portus, was it?’ he hissed toward Harry. Harry blinked a few times. He had forgotten that Snape would still be a student and not a professor, but this was still slightly shocking to him, and then a touch amusing. He looked exactly the way Harry had seen him in his older version’s memory the year before, still with greasy hair and the pair of well-worn robes that Harry assumed were his only ones. ‘What do you mean your station?’ Harry asked plainly. ‘I don’t see your name on it.’ ‘I’ve worked here alone for the past six years. Now go find somewhere else, you Gryffindor filth,’ he said with such disdain that Harry was irked. Even the grown Snape wasn’t this hate-filled, and if he was he apparently showed great self restraint on most occasions. ‘He can work wherever he likes, Snivellus,’ a voice called from behind them, making both students twirl around quickly. James and Sirius had just walked in followed carefully by Remus, who was busy reading a book, his shining scarlet Prefect’s badge glinting in the torchlight. ‘Shut it Potter!’ Snape cried. ‘If you like him so much, he can work with you! Not that he’d want to. At least with me, he would be sure a passing grade.’ Now Harry could see a conflicted look in Snape’s eyes. On one hand, he had told Harry to move, but on the other, he had just said that he would be better off if he stayed simply to annoy his rival. ‘There’s nothing in this world that could make a Gryffindor work with a Slytherin,’ James’ retort came, harsh and cold. Sirius gave a glare that backed up his friends statement and more. ‘I’m afraid you are quite wrong Mister Potter, as I do believe I am such a thing,’ came a steely voice from the front of the room. Harry felt a shiver traverse his spine at the iciness of the voice and almost didn’t want to see from whom it originated. He slowly turned to see a very severe looking woman with long, dark hair braided and pulled into a tight bun. She had the darkest eyes he had ever seen, making Snape’s pale in comparison. She stepped from her office and securely shut the door, stepping forward to her desk to continue. ‘Mister Portus will in fact be working with our Mister Snape today, unless you see this as a problem, Mister Potter?’ she said this firmly and Harry was given the impression that no one would dare speak up. ‘Very well. Welcome to my class, Mister Portus.’ Upon seeing the boy in front of her, the professor’s dark eyes widened and a look of mild surprise took over as she quickly looked from Harry to James and back again, before regaining composure. ‘I am Professor Sharpbane,’ she said in an icier tone than before, ‘and you will find that my class is not for the weak minded,’ she shot a glare at Sirius and James. Harry understood immediately where Snape had found his role model. ‘Open your texts to page four hundred and twelve.’ Professor Sharpbane continued to explain the day’s work before flicking her wand at the blackboard and having the instructions scrawl themselves across it. Harry read the instructions closely before crossing the room to the supply cupboard for the boomslang skin. ‘Mister Portus, perhaps you should allow Severus to collect the ingredients. He is after all competent,’ the professor’s voice reached across the room, her eyes filled with malice. Harry could see Snape’s lip curling up in a grin and his blood began to boil. ‘I think I can manage thank you,’ he called back and watched as her eyes narrowed and the class fell silent. Snape’s grin widened. ‘You do, do you?’ she started in a threateningly low voice. ‘Very well, I suppose our newest student deserves to be treated just as any of the others. I was willing to allow you a week before testing, but as it appears you feel yourself so gifted, we shall do it now. You will answer a short quiz Mister Portus, and I’m afraid that if you do not receive at least an Exceeds Expectations, you will have to leave my classroom.’ Harry could see James and Sirius shaking their heads at him like he was a fool. Remus, on the other hand, was watching attentively in obvious curiosity. Harry supposed he wanted to know how intelligent the new student would turn out to be. Harry nodded his understanding and quickly returned to his seat with the boomslang skin so that he could write his test. He was mildly surprised when Professor Sharpbane began to quiz him aloud in front of the class. ‘What will I get Mister Portus, when I add boomslang skin to unicorn blood?’ she started fairly simple. ‘That would be the base for the healing potion, Professor,’ he said with a smile and waited for the next question. ‘Correct,’ she added and continued unperturbed. ‘And what would I get if I added daisy root to the root of Asphodel and ground them with the venom from an acromantula?’ she asked, looking pleased with her question. The look on many of the students’ blank faces told him that they had not yet covered this particular potion. He however, had read his entire text and he recalled this particular potion well. ‘That would be the last addition in the Vanesco Minimus potion,’ Harry said with the same smile as before. The smile widened as the professor’s eyes narrowed further and she looked him up and down sourly. She had felt confident that he would miss that one. ‘Correct,’ she said slowly. ‘Now tell me, Mister Portus, what would I get if I added a unicorn’s tail hair to a mixture of boomslang skin, three-part dried moonstone herb and two-part slick doxy oil, and allowed it to brew for a week?’ She now looked extremely pleased with herself, and Harry noticed the calculating look on both Lupin’s and Snape’s faces as they worked it out in their minds. Harry grinned at his good luck. ‘Well Professor, you wouldn’t have much,’ he said plainly and saw as she smiled in triumph. ‘I’m afraid that’s not correct, and that lowers your score to a-’ ‘I’m sorry Professor, what I meant to say, and I should have been more clear, is that you would have an extremely useless Polyjuice Potion, as it must be left to stew for three weeks before consumption.’ The professor’s eyes widened at his interruption. ‘And then there’s the fact that the Unicorn’s tail hair would alter the effects as Polyjuice Potion should only contain a hair from the human host the brewer wishes to appear as. Using animal hair can create very unfortunate results,’ he finished with a smile. The thought of Hermione’s mishap in third year sweetening his success. ‘Very well,’ she snapped at him, her features now returned to their normal stony self. ‘Take your seat and start your work. If you ever interrupt me again Mister Portus, I will be forced to remove points from Gryffindor.’ Two hours later, Harry found himself sitting in the Great Hall for lunch with Marc and the Prewetts. Marc had told him all about his first two classes, before Harry explained how his double Potions had gone. ‘Sorry you still have to deal with Snape,’ Marc said to him quietly in a pitying voice, but it was strongly belied by his grin. Harry nodded and gave a mock scowl, but what he did not say was that he truly did not mind working with him, and that they made a surprisingly good team. At the end of the lesson Harry had found himself gathering his things and leaving the Potions classroom after having created a near-perfect shrinking potion and receiving an outstanding for the day. He was surprised by how well he worked alongside Snape, and aside from several snide remarks along the way, he could tell that Snape was impressed with his work. Even Professor Sharpbane had complimented the results, though this was most likely because he had worked with her favorite pupil. Harry listened to some of the apparently infamous tales of the Prewett twins and ate his lunch contentedly until a large mass of bright auburn hair coming through the great doors of the hall drew his attention away. Lily Evans walked through the doors, surrounded by three other girls, one on each side of her and another following closely behind. Lily and the two beside her turned quickly to say something to the other, before she gave a smile and wave and then went off to sit at the Ravenclaw table. The other three continued to the Gryffindor table where they sat down right across from Harry and Marc. ‘Hello ladies,’ Fabian said with a wide grin and he placed an arm around the girl with short, light brown hair sitting to Lily’s left. ‘And how are you all doing on this fine day?’ ‘Shut it, Fabian,’ Lily said with narrowed eyes, ‘We’ve already told you, you can find someone else to go to Hogsmeade with.’ ‘If you can find anyone who doesn’t mind looking at your face,’ the brunette to her right added and she batted her eyelashes at him innocently. Fabian gave them a mock wounded look before breaking into a grin and throwing his arm around his brother. ‘No worries, Gideon here will always be at my side. Right until the end, isn’t that right?’ His brother flung his arm off and rolled his eyes, everyone around them laughing. Everyone except Harry, because knew that was exactly how it would end. ‘Hi there, Marc was it?’ Lily said holding out a hand toward Marc once they had stopped laughing. ‘I’m Lily Evans.’ ‘Yeah,’ he said, taking her hand. Harry rolled his eyes when he saw the light-haired brunette next to his mother redden while looking at Marc. ‘And that would make you Harry then?’ she asked, shaking his hand as well. 'These two are my best friends, as well as another girl from Ravenclaw, but I’m sure you’ll meet her eventually. This is Sophie,’ she indicated to the brunette that was still ogling Marc, ‘and this is Gwendolyn.’ Harry looked more closely at the brunette and recognised her from the wedding. She had been one of the four bridesmaids, along with Sophie and presumably the Ravenclaw girl. She was also the woman who had almost caught him out but luckily mistook him for James. Harry smiled at Gwen warmly and noticed the brightness of her golden eyes as she smiled back. The small group chatted for a while longer about nothing in particular, Fabian trying at regular intervals to get one of the girls to go on a date with him, until finally the warning bell for next lesson sounded and the Hall filled with the bustle of students heading to their classes. ‘Are you in Transfiguration now?’ Lily asked above the din. ‘Er, yeah I am,’ he answered after briefly scanning his new timetable. ‘Good, you can walk with me. Gwendolyn and Sophie have double Divination,’ she said, and pulled a face. Harry smiled, instantly liking his mother even more. They continued to chat about what courses were actually worth taking and Harry learned that his mother already wished to be an Auror. As they entered the Transfiguration classroom, Harry was warned to pay attention in this class as Professor McGonagall was known to be quite strict. Harry tried to hide a smile at this and nodded his understanding before they took their seats, once again at the front of the room. ‘You don’t mind being my partner do you?’ she asked him. ‘Not at all,’ he said with a smile. ‘I’m sure you’re quite adept in the subject, and if not then I’m sure I could teach you a thing or two.’ He smiled knowingly, having learned from McGonagall that she was in fact brilliant in Transfiguration. Lily raised an eyebrow in his direction and smirked. ‘I’d hoped you would be my partner so that I might avoid working with one of those idiots,’ she pointed to four very familiar wizards on the other side of the room, ‘but now I’m not so sure who’s more conceited.’ Harry could not smother his laughter when he saw the glare Lily sent across the room to James and Sirius. ‘Nevermind, I’ll keep you,’ she said finally, as Professor McGonagall walked in briskly and stood at the front of the room. ‘Today, we will be working in pairs to transfigure slightly larger objects into animals and then back again. Last week we learned how to transfigure our desks, but not how to return them to their original state,’ she started her lesson, briefly eyeing the group of males at the back of the room suspiciously. She explained and demonstrated the wand movement needed for this particular bit of magic and then told everyone to pair off. Barely five minutes had gone by when McGonagall started her rounds, criticizing and complimenting the various degree of spell work. Harry and Lily were her third stop and Harry barely held in a snort of laughter when she made her comment. She had spent several seconds watching them cast their spells and then looked shocked when Lily laughed and pulled on Harry’s sleeve playfully before complementing him on his work. ‘Very good, the both of you!’ she said. ‘Five points to Gryffindor for each of you. Five for the spell work and five for working well together on your own,’ she added with a raised eyebrow. ‘If things continue this way, I may have to continue the Evans, Potter combination for the rest of term.’ ‘You bloody will not!’ an indignant shout came from the back of the room, followed closely by howls of laughter. McGonagall looked up to see who would be losing points and nearly fell over when she saw the highly affronted look on James Potter’s face, and the bent over form of Sirus Black shaking with laughter on the classroom floor. She quickly looked back to the boy standing next to Lily and her brows shpt upward, making Harry grin. ‘It’s uncanny, isn’t it?’ he suggested with a small laugh, getting a small chuckle from most of the room. ‘Although I must say that your reaction has been my favourite thus far, Professor,’ he added with a small smile at the old woman, who was still looking back and forth between the near identical youths. ‘Yes, well. It is quite intriguing, Mister Portus,’ she said in her regularly stern voice, but her eyes conveyed a certain gleam that Harry found was generally reserved for her more favoured Gryffindor’s. Just as quickly as she had looked shocked, the tight-lipped woman adopted an icy glare. ‘That will be ten points from Gryffindor for Mister Potter’s obscenities, and another five for Mister Black’s inappropriate disruptions. Now if you would all please return to your work.’ The room sobered up instantly and Harry caught his father and Godfather scowling at the professor from behind their desks. The rest of the class went well, and Harry soon found himself heading to his last class of the day, History of Magic. He groaned inwardly and outwardly at the thought of suffering another term of Binns’ droning simply because he had fiddled with time. He suspected it was Dumbledore’s twisted way of punishing him. He walked along the corridors with Lily until they were met by three other girls, one of them unfamiliar to him. He assumed that she was the Ravenclaw he had been told about. ‘Harry, this is our other good friend Helena Snarkett,’ Gwen offered as soon as they were all caught up. Harry smiled and shook her hand politely before they continued on their way, all of the girls gossiping as they did. ‘Sorry I’m late girls. I had to send an owl to Edgar so that he’ll get it on time,’ Helena was telling them. ‘So are you going to meet up with him on the Hogsmeade weekend then? He did ask you didn’t he?’ Sophie asked her friend eagerly, unable to hold back a giggle. ‘Of course he did,’ she answered with a swat at the taller girl’s arm. He said he would meet me in the three broomsticks at noon.’ ‘We’d better not hear of any students snogging in the three broomsticks,’ Gwendolyn teased and all of the girls turned toward Harry when he choked on what could only have been air. He went pink as they all looked up at him. ‘Sorry, Harry,’ Lily apologised from behind a half smirk. ‘Once the girls get talking, there’s really nothing that stops them. Especially Gwen!’ ‘That’s quite alright,’ Harry tried to say smoothly, but found himself squeaking instead, inviting another bout of laughter from the girls. ‘They’re just joking of course,’ Lily explained. ‘Edgar’s far too proper to even consider something as publicly scandalous as that.’ ‘He just graduated last year. He’s in Auror training now,’ Helena announced proudly. ‘I do hope to work with him shortly. Two more years and I could very well be in the law enforcement department, alongside his sister actually. Very nice woman. She just started there three years ago, and already she’s been moved up to a charge position. Edgar always says that she’ll run the department one day.’ ‘Amelia?’ Gwedolyn said with a snort. ‘It would be quite ironic if the girl who used to hold slumber parties for us ran the department of Magical law Enforcement.’ They all laughed. Harry’s eyes widened at hearing this. ‘Amelia Bones?’ he said before thinking, and then turned to the girls who had all stopped walking. ‘Yeah, that’s her,’ Helena said with interest. ‘How do you know her?’ Harry’s mind raced for something to cover his ridiculous blunder. ‘Oh, my mum mentioned her a few times. Said she was a delightful woman at the Ministry.’ The girls all seemed to accept this and they started walking to class again. Once they had all seated themselves in the classroom, Harry found himself staring at one of his mother’s best friends. He felt saddened and slightly sick to be looking at one of his schoolmate’s mothers, who he knew would die in the next three years with her husband and the rest of their family. Helena Snarkett would marry Edgar Bones, and would in fact join the department of Magical Law Enforcement to work under her sister-in-law Amelia Bones. Sadly, just after their daughter Susan is born, both Edgar and Helena would be murdered along with the rest of their family. As far as Harry knew, Amelia and Susan were the only remaining Bones in his time. Trying not to dwell on death and all the terrible things that would befall most of those in the room around him, Harry elected to stare at the blackboard at the front of the room, through which he knew Professor Binns always drifted. He had wafted through that same board every lesson precisely as the bell rang for the past five years, prompting Harry to nearly fall out of his seat when the classroom door was opened and Professor Binns walked into the room with a briefcase in his hands. Harry stared through saucer-sized eyes as the old man in front of him placed his briefcase on his desk and sat down in his seat, breathing heavily. Harry couldn’t believe what he was seeing. Professor Binns walking was one thing, but breathing was another altogether! The old man ran a hand through his wispy white hair then pulled out his wand and quickly scribbled some notes on the board. His cheeks were extremely pink and his eyes a startling blue as he stared out over his class. Just when Harry thought things might have been looking up, Professor Binns began his lecture in the exact same hollow voice that could have easily been bottled and sold as a sleep aid. He had always attributed this monotonous voice to the professor’s being a ghost, but now he had proof that the man was just as dreadfully boring when he had been alive. Previous Chapter Next Chapter Favorite \|Reading List \|Currently Reading << >> Review Write a Review Harry Potter and the Time of Second Chances: A Night to Forget (6000 characters max.) 6000 remaining Your Name: Prove you are Human: Submit this review and continue reading next chapter. Other Similar Stories Another Life by RandomWer... 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Transcript for Marilynne Robinson and Marcelo Gleiser — The Mystery We Are November 9, 2012 Krista Tippett, host: Marilynne Robinson is a novelist. Marcelo Gleiser is an astrophysicist. They're both passionate about the majesty of science, and they share a caution about what they call our modern "piety" towards science. We bring them together for a joyous, heady discussion of "the mystery we are." They connect thrilling dots between current discoveries about the cosmos, new territory of understanding our own minds, and our ancient and eternal longing to know where we came from. Also, some surprising moments on what a fiction writer and a physicist have in common. Marilynne Robinson: I tell my students, actually, that the mind continuously creates hypotheses, and when you're writing fiction you're doing something of the same kind. This is the best model I can create of what this reality would be. Marcello Gleiser: Do you feel when you write and you create characters, do you feel like they drive you in a certain way? Ms. Robinson: Absolutely, and thank God when they do. Dr. Gleiser: Because, we do too. We're not always in control. We're just making sure all the minus signs and the plus signs match, you know. Ms. Robinson: Wonderful. Dr. Gleiser: But it really has a way that it wants to go, and when you find a solution or something that looks like a solution, you get emotionally moved. I interviewed Marcelo Gleiser and Marilynne Robinson at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia. We were there at the invitation of the Princeton Center of Theological Inquiry and its director, Will Storrar. Ms. Tippett: Well, you know, I did not prepare an introduction to these two. I don't think Marilynne Robinson needs any introduction. Can I say that you are one of the most requested names that comes through our email inbox of my program, year after year. Ms. Robinson: Thank you. Ms. Tippett: So finally here you are. The author of Housekeeping, Gilead, Home, and Absence of Mind, which is the book that we're going to focus on especially tonight. And Marcelo Gleiser I have just gotten to know through — what is the name of your book? A Tear? Dr. Gleiser: A Tear at the Edge of Creation. Ms. Tippett: A Tear at the Edge of Creation. A fabulous book and I'm so happy to be introduced to this work and this writing. So Will gave the evening this lovely evocative title which I was thrilled to take on: The Mystery We Are. And I want to start with that phrase — actually would like to start with you, Marcelo. You grew up in Brazil. You've written that "growing up in the tropics is a blissful portal into the natural world." I wonder if you could just say a little bit about how you trace back to your earliest life your sense of mystery as something thrilling and animating and also eventually linked to science. Dr. Gleiser: I grew up in Rio in particular and right in front of the ocean. So it's impossible not to be amazed by the enormity of nature when you have that huge, beautiful Atlantic Ocean in front of you. And I was lucky that my grandparents had a house in the mountains about two hours from Rio, which we used to go to which is part of what is called the Atlantic Forest, which is this incredibly luscious, full of life, orchids and bromeliads exploding everywhere that enchanted Charles Darwin when he went down there, you know, on The Beagle and he talked about this power of nature. So I think from a very early age I was just mystified by the beauty of this and I wanted to understand how was that all possible, you know? And initially I looked for answers, so to speak, to religion. You know, I grew up in a Jewish family and I went to — I had a very formal Jewish education. And then I didn't feel satisfied with that. I wanted something different. And then for my bar mitzvah, I actually got an autographed picture of Albert Einstein who was in Brazil in 1925, and he was hosted by our grandfather. Ms. Tippett: Right. Dr. Gleiser: So I was blown away by that and I decide to know who is this man. Ms. Tippett: He was visiting the Jewish community there, which is, I think, a part of Einstein's life that we don't hear as much about. Dr. Gleiser: Yes. Exactly. Ms. Tippett: Mm-hmm. Dr. Gleiser: So Einstein, you know, after he became a superstar, he went down to South America to raise money for the Zionist cause. So the Jewish community is all kind of galvanized by this. And it turns out that his host in Rio was my grandfather and they took a picture together, you know, and they both autographed this. And that became my little altar, you know, this man. And so I would worship and I would learn about him more and more. And I said, you know, I want do this. I want to — and one thing that he always wrote about was about the mystery of nature as the driving force behind science and scientific curiosity. And to me, that spoke to me directly. You know, that science was not so much about finding all the answers but actually about courting with the mystery of the unknown. And I still feel that way. Ms. Tippett: Mm-hmm. And Marilynne, you grew up in Idaho, which you describe also as a place of more austere but intense beauty. So I want to ask you the same question. You know, how do you trace the roots of your sense of mystery also as something that came to be an animating force for you as a novelist and a writer. Ms. Robinson: Well, my grandparents had a house in the mountains not terribly far from where I lived. It was in the western side of the Rocky Mountains, near Canada, and the proportion, or the disproportion, of nature on the one hand and human settlement on the other was really striking. I mean, even — as a child I grew up with the idea that human beings were a fairly trivial presence in the environment and that the mountains, you could hear them all the time. You could smell them. There was pine in the air or snow or whatever. My grandparents had a house built actually by my great-grandparents, which was modern by the standards of the late 19th century and so it had a sleeping porch. You were supposed to sleep out there so that you wouldn't get tuberculosis. And it was amazing because at night you would hear the mountains. You would hear coyotes, you know, and there was no other light. There was no sense of human presence aside from my grandparents' house. And for me, because of the atmosphere of my own childhood, this became very, very deeply associated with theology for me, with religion, with the idea of the presence of God. And I think that this sort of fusion is characteristically American in a lot of ways. When I went to college in New England and read the Transcendentalists, I thought, exactly, you know. Ms. Tippett: Hmm. So in your recent writing, each of you is driven from different directions by an observation that we have been working, thinking, acting on outdated models of reality, a limited conception of humanity and of the universe and even of science. I mean, Marcelo, you talk about growing up as you became interested in science, fascinated with this idea of unification, which was an idea of Einstein. And you talk about going to grad school, following this intellectual Holy Grail. Dr. Gleiser: Mm-hmm. Ms. Tippett: But you don't quite see it that way anymore. Dr. Gleiser: Right. So just to clarify, right, one of the grand goals of modern physics is to build a Theory of Everything at all. Not a very beautiful name. But a theory of everything that would in principle explain all that we can observe in nature in terms of a single force, so to speak. And it's a very beautiful idea. It's very Platonist in its essence, you know, that the essence of nature is mathematical. There is one big symmetry out there and that symmetry is beautiful and beauty is truth. And hence, you know, there has to be that sort of idea in nature as well. And a lot of people, including Einstein — Einstein spent 20 years of his life looking for this Theory of Everything, this unifying theory, and of course he didn't find it. I went to grad school trying to find it too, right, and after many years doing this and talking to lots of my colleagues I came to the conclusion that that's impossible. That the Theory of Everything is an impossibility as a matter of principle. And the problem is this: that the way we understand the world — and interrupt me if I go on for too long. Ms. Tippett: No, no. It's good. We're all — we're with you. Dr. Gleiser: The way we understand the world is very much based on what we can see of the world, right? Science is based on measurements and observations. And the notion that we can actually come up and have a theory that explains everything assumes that we can know everything, right? That we can go out and measure everything there is to measure about nature and come up with this beautiful Theory of Everything. And since we cannot measure all there is to measure, since our tools have limitations, we are definitely limited in how much we can know of the world. So you can even build a theory that would explain everything that we know now. But then two weeks from now, someone else will come and find something new that does not fit in your theory. And that's not a Theory of Everything anymore because it doesn't include everything that can be included. Ms. Tippett: And, I mean, the implication of that is this sense that there would be some apprehension of reality of the universe, which would be perfect. It would be about stasis and perfection. But the way you're seeing it now is more about the universe being about change and transformation in our knowledge and that being the state of things. Dr. Gleiser: Yes. That's true. So the idea — when you look out, right, into the nature everything is in transformation at all times. And we see this at the very small and we see this at the very large. When we look at the whole universe, it is expanding, it's growing, it's changing in time. And so to me I look at things much more as a state of flux, you know, of becoming, of transformation, as something that has some static truth behind it. Let's put it that way. And so the notion that we as humans could come up with a final answer to the mystery of nature it's pushing things a little too far for our capabilities. Let's put it that way. Ms. Tippett: And Marilynne, in Absence of Mind, I mean, you're saying many things but I think to simplify one thing you're saying is that modern people don't understand how thrilling and rich science is now and that culture has an antiquated view of science's place. Ms. Robinson: Mm-hmm. I teach graduate students. I teach highly educated graduate students and I find that their level of understanding of science is pretty abysmal. And I wonder what it is that makes a culture that really creates its fate and its future, basically, out of science is not telling people, uh, you know, the thing about science, contemporary science, is that it is as profound in its revelation certainly as Galileo ever was, or Copernicus. You know? The fact that we can know things that absolutely revolutionized previous models of the universe we inhabit, I mean, this amazing expansion into the microcosm, an expansion into the macrocosm, all these things that are happening are extremely beautiful and they are an enormous mirror of the competencies and the aspirations of the human mind. And I think how are we letting people miss out on this? You know, just the esthetics of it. Ms. Tippett: Mm-hmm. And the nub of some of the difficulty you describe as this far too simplistic choice that I think people, maybe Americans in particular, have felt that they had to make between an idea that the universe is created or the idea that it is all some kind of cosmic accident. Ms. Robinson: Well, you know, as far as the scale of what we're learning to know, the psalmist has better intuitions about it than Richard Dawkins. But we're pious toward science. It does in fact criticize itself and overturn itself. It deserves that reputation. But this strange little world that we're presented as being scientific isn't, you know; it's some sort of petrified conception that would have been at home in the 19th century. Ms. Tippett: Do you have any … Dr. Gleiser: No. I actually — being a scientist I actually agree with Marilynne. You know, I think that once you adopt that there is only one way of understanding the complexity of things you're just emptying humanity of its value. You know, of the plurality of visions. And so, yes, science is powerful. I love it. I do it. But there are other ways of knowing, you know. And to say that there is only one way of understanding the mind, which is a topic that Marilynne talks so much about in her book, is just silly, to be honest. It's impoverishing the richness of human culture. Ms. Tippett: I'm Krista Tippett, and this is On Being — conversation about meaning, religion, ethics, and ideas. Today, a public conversation with Marcelo Gleiser — a physicist at Dartmouth College and a poetic writer about science — together with novelist and essayist Marilynne Robinson. Ms. Tippett: I also want to talk about this idea of creation and of myth. Because, Marcelo, you are not a religious person. Marilynne, you are certainly someone who, well, you preach and you teach the Old Testament and you are a big defender of John Calvin. Ms. Robinson: You summed me up. Ms. Tippett: So, I mean, let's talk about creation and the word myth. I mean, I think both of you have a real reverence for this kind of language and these ways of knowing, even though you might assess them differently. Ms. Robinson: Well, I think that if you look at, for example, the first creation narrative in the Old Testament, it's pretty amazing as an ancient account of creation. The fact that, you know, it's perhaps overstating the case, but better than anything else, it does anticipate the modern cosmology, the creation of something out of nothing, which might be mythic language but very close. I mean, we can't do much better than that, I think. It describes the emergence of the cosmos and of life in the world in stages. They don't exactly line up with ours but still, you know, that's an interesting insight. Ms. Tippett: It's almost an evolutionary account. Ms. Robinson: It's almost evolutionary. Ms. Tippett: Yeah. Ms. Robinson: Exactly. The second creation narrative, which is the source of a lot of trouble, actually is understood as a fable or a midrash or whatever you want to call it as early as the writer Josephus. And that's what I think it is properly to be understood as. But in any case, the idea of the abrupt emergence of something fantastically beautiful and intricate is descriptive. You know, people can use the language that would call it myth, and I think that myth is the expression of the intuition of cosmology among ancient people. They didn't have, of course, or perhaps would not have chosen to have the kind of language that we use for these kinds of things, but the general perception or intuition that you find in many ancient cultures — so far as I know, all of them — that there was a beginning. Even Hesiod describes the beginning. That's a profound intuition that did not burst upon modern scientific sensibilities until Irwin Hubble, until the 20th century. You know, so you have people like Einstein and Bertrand Russell and so on who thought there was no reason to imagine that the universe had ever had to begin at all. Ms. Tippett: Right. Bertrand Russell. You quote him: "The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the poverty of our imagination." Ms. Robinson: Exactly. Exactly. And who knows what this means, that human beings had a profounder intuition than science could confirm into the modern period, but you have to respect it. There it is. Dr. Gleiser: Right. So I actually wrote a book way before this last one, called The Dancing Universe: From Creation Myths to the Big Bang. And what I do there is I look at all sorts of different creation myths from cultures around the world in different times in the ways they dealt with the question of creation, you know, the question of the origin of the world, which to me is the most complicated question you can possibly ask. Right? So I call it The Question. Right? So then I go and I look at cosmology in the 20th century, before we had data. And what happened? All the models, the theories that cosmologists use to explain the universe reproduced these mythic ideas. So there was a universe that was cyclic, just like the dancing of Shiva. There were universe that, at least on paper, were created out of a moment in time, which was Friedmann came up with this model in 1922 before Hubble confirmed it. Right? And then there was an eternal universe as well. So to me what's really remarkable is two things. First, that all of this shows how we want to know. Right? I mean, the unity here between the two sides, if you want, is on the questioning on we need to know our origins. Ms. Tippett: The two sides religion and science, you mean? Dr. Gleiser: Yes. Ms. Tippett: Mm-hmm. Dr. Gleiser: You know, the mythic narratives and the scientific narratives, they're both asking the same question: Where did everything come from? And then, of course, before data there was also the universality of human thought, if you want. Like, there were certain ways in which you can — there are only some ways in which you can answer this question and the scientists repeated them until, of course, data came. And only in the 1960s we were finally able to kind of discern that, you know, the Big Bang, meaning there was really a moment in time, seems to be the best way to describe what we see. Ms. Tippett: To begin to speak of beginnings, to use that word in a scientific way. I don't know. You know, when I was reading the two of you about this, it was the first time that I found myself wondering, why is it that we are so — so obsessed with the question of beginnings and origins? I mean, I wonder as a novelist if you have a thought about that. Ms. Robinson: Well, you know, I think, frankly, that as modern people we struggle under certain prejudices against ourselves, that there are ways in which we have lost contact with, you know, the earlier intuitions that actually described themselves in culture and in literature and so on. But, uh, I think, you know, everyone wants to have a narrative of personal origins. Most of us want to have narratives of what you might sort of call tribal origins, you know: where did my grandparents come from and why and that sort of thing, you know. I think that our bond with humankind is felt as a sort of very much enlarged family narrative of origins in that sense, you know. There's some sort of a feeling that if you know where you came from you would know who you are. You would know what you should do. We lack definition of ourselves, which is an incredibly haunting feature of human life. And I think that often we, you know, if you look at these narratives like the Epic of Gilgamesh or something like that, so it says things about who the gods are, what the purpose of human life is, and so on. I think these are questions that people need, crave, and they take them right back to primal origins. Ms. Tippett: Marilynne, you struggle a bit, I think, with science. You have a sense that even when people didn't have the science that we have now to think about the universe, we had this ancient intuition of our part in it. And is science at play in diminishing that? Is it cultural? Ms. Robinson: Well, you know, I think that what we think of as science, or modern science, is something that puts into eclipse other forms of thinking that were also efficacious. Richard Feynman has written a — I read an essay of his in which he talks about identity. I mean, he says it's so amazing that I experience myself as myself over a year of time, that I retain memory and so on, when every atom in my brain would have been changed. But you can find the same statement almost syllable but syllable in John Locke who was writing in the 17th century, who says exactly the same thing. Every atom in my brain would have changed. And the question is how did John Locke know that? How is it that the Islamic philosophers that Maimonides was in conversation with were able to quantize time, essentially, as a way of solving the problem of time. You know, how did they do that? How did they know? You know? I think that a great deal of what we do scientifically in the modern sense is actually the confirmation of the kinds of thinking that we either receive traditionally or would have arrived at by other means. And I think that — I mean, I'm very interested now in trying to see how people thought before they had this word science descend on the conversation in the form that it does now. Dr. Gleiser: Right. I think it's impossible to separate us from nature. So when you go to the stories of creation and the relationship — the attempts at explanation that they are, they're really a pre-scientific mode of dealing with the unknown. Right? I mean, these people must have been completely baffled by existence, just like we are. Ms. Tippett: Right. Dr. Gleiser: Right? And we looked out and we see how is it possible that there are these regular cycles in nature like the sun coming back every day, the seasons. And then days of volcanic eruption, that there is a terrifying total eclipse of the sun. You know, how do you have regular and irregular things going on in nature? Who is in control of that? And so to me those preliminary ways of making sense, of making meaning were just attempts at trying to have some level of control for things which were way beyond people's control. And science is just the new incarnation of the same sort of effort. (Sound bite of music) Ms. Tippett: You can listen to this program again, or to my entire unedited conversation with Marcelo Gleiser and Marilynne Robinson at It was part of a symposium on Spiritual Progress, hosted by the Princeton Center of Theological Inquiry; it marked the centenary of the birth of Sir John Templeton. At, we're posting other material from that event — for example, fascinating discussions around the symposium table with Robert Bellah, Chief Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks, and more with Marilynne Robinson. Again, that's Ms. Tippett: I'm Krista Tippett, and this is On Being. Today, "The Mystery We Are," a public conversation with Marilynne Robinson and Marcelo Gleiser. Marilynne Robinson is an author of acclaimed novels. She's been talking about her fascination with the echoes she hears back and forth between modern science, religion, and the arts across the ages. Marcelo Gleiser is a Brazilian-born physicist who's captivated by the beauty and mystery at the heart of scientific discovery. He's also the author of poetic books about science, including A Tear at the Edge of the Creation. There's a line that you wrote, Marcelo, that is the kind of statement that you're making as a physicist, but it's also just a statement about being human. All right? "Symmetry may have its appeal but it is inherently stale. Some kind of imbalance is behind every transformation." I mean, you could be talking about the cosmos and you could be talking about me yesterday, right? Dr. Gleiser: Yeah. Absolutely. Ms. Tippett: Yeah. Dr. Gleiser: So in this book I was having the very humble mission of trying to create a new aesthetic for physics. So basically saying that we need to look at the imperfection if you really want to get at things and give up the notion that there is this beautiful perfection behind everything, you know. The way, the modes of description that we use are fundamentally incomplete. And so let's embrace the imperfection, you know, what's not perfect. You know, I always try and say do not try to make science into God. Because truly that's the idea, right? This notion that there is this oneness, perfection that you can describe through science is basically trying to create a scientific model for God. Ms. Tippett: You know, Marcelo, you make this kind of provocative observation that with the search for the Unified Theory, science has set up a parallel to the God of the Gaps. Dr. Gleiser: Mm-hmm. Ms. Tippett: Which was the problem, especially in the 20th century, this idea that God began where our scientific knowledge ran out. And you're saying that now the reality is that sort of Unified Theory begins where our scientific knowledge runs out. Dr. Gleiser: Well, so the God of the Gaps is a notion that is old, right, in the sense that even Newton had to use it because when he was talking about how the planets went around the sun, the question was what gave the initial impulse for the planets to move around the sun. So he invoked God. God was a very, very important presence in the Newtonian universe. And so this whole idea of trying to put God where we don't understand the world is a terrible idea. I think it's theologically a very bad move, because science will advance, you know, and it will learn more and more about the world. And then God will be squeezed out of this gap and then have to go to another gap. But the thing about where does this Unified Theory need come from, that's what always mystified me, even though I was a convert in the beginning, you know. And I think it really is a byproduct of having lived with monotheistic faiths for so long. So culturally it's very enticing, you know, for science to come up with this one explanation of everything. And I really trace the roots of that through monotheistic faith. Ms. Tippett: Mm-hmm. I wonder what questions you might have of each other. Dr. Gleiser: Well, let's see. So, Marilynne, you speak so eloquently of the need for diversity in understanding things. Maybe you can talk to us a little bit about that and, you know, why this kind of one-way one-track of science is misleading us. Ms. Robinson: Well, I'm always — my first criticism of that version of science is that I think that it does not at all describe the best that science does. First of all, because science is — its genius is self-criticism. When you find out that the universe is accelerating and accelerating in its rate of acceleration and so on, this is not supposed to be true and the moment that they find out that all major assumptions have been overthrown, there's rejoicing in the scientific community, you know. And that's a lovely, you know, that is the authority of science for me. The fact that we cannot be articulate about ourselves — and I think that's deeply true, I think that the arts are our effort to articulate the experience of self and mind and so on that is inaccessible to scientific description — that deep yearning that is as ancient as the desire to know where we came from and the rest of it, has been disallowed as the legitimate part of the human record and the human conversation. And this seems to me to be completely arbitrary. And along with, of course, other forms of the profound self-exploration of human inwardness is the rejection of religion, which is also put out of account. There's nothing really more universal, I think, in human cultures than the impulse to religion. If you were looking at it dispassionately, the question of what people are, you would have to take this very enormous and elaborate self-description seriously as a datum, so to speak. And I think that if people have interests that are scientific but don't tend toward addressing questions of that kind, fine. They've distinguished themselves. It's beautiful. But they can't act as if they have addressed those questions when in fact everything that they do is actually relevant to another set of issues. Ms. Tippett: I think you're actually saying that to dismiss that very ancient and pervasive aspect of human life and human culture is irrational on some level. Ms. Robinson: Yes. Ms. Tippett: OK. Dr. Gleiser: Yeah. And, you know, to think of science as separate from spirituality to me is a big mistake. You know, there is nothing that says that science should be dispassionate about the spirit or the life of the spirit. And to me it's quite the opposite. It's exactly because I feel very spiritually connected with nature that I am a scientist. And to write equations on a blackboard and to come up with models about how nature works is, in a sense, a form of worship of that spirituality. You know, and I feel that very concretely all the time. Ms. Tippett: Do you have a question of Marcelo? Ms. Robinson: Oh, my. One thing that I find when I'm reading, you know, scientists that write in a popular way, writing these issues and that frankly I've found a couple of times in your book, is a tendency to use the word "explain" when I would say the appropriate word is "describe." You know, if they figure out the fine points of photosynthesis, you know, maybe we'll say, well, it's a quantum phenomenon or something like that, that's a description. It's not an explanation. You know? And perhaps there are things that are not — don't make themselves available to explanation but that does not mean that description stands in the place of explanation. And sort of like if somebody says why does a clock tell time, you can describe the mechanism of the particular clock or you can say people arrived at a convenient definition of one day, divided it into arbitrary segments, and made a mechanism that would measure those segments because culture required timekeeping with that degree of precision. Now, that's not a complete explanation but it is explanatory whereas the other one is only descriptive. And I think that's a very important distinction that is not made because very often when people look at religious accounts of things, people looking at them from the outside, they say, no, that's not an explanation. Actually, the explanation is that it was beneficial to the leopards' existence that it blended into a shadowy landscape — hence, spots. You know what I mean? This is descriptive. It is not explanatory. Dr. Gleiser: I'm fine with that. Dr. Gleiser: I mean, I think that — I don't think I have any claims there. I would say that we are just trying to make sense of physical reality in the best way we can, and perhaps what you are implicitly referring to is the lack of humility that sometimes comes with the scientific kind of rhetoric. You know, that there is sort of this like "this is how it is" kind of thing. And the ones that probably bother you the most are the ones that get the public voice and that do make rhetorical statements about things such as now science can understand the origin of the universe. You know, which is absolutely not true. You know, formally not true. You know, but the statement comes out in the media and in books by very famous people all the time. And that bothers me as much as it bothers you. Ms. Tippett: Well, somehow it's in the nature of media and our public dialogue that it's not the humblest voices of religion or science who … Ms. Robinson: That is so true. Ms. Tippett: … make their way in front — to microphones and cameras. Dr. Gleiser: That's right. Ms. Tippett: But here you are in front of a microphone. Dr. Gleiser: Right. Ms. Tippett: I'm Krista Tippett, and this is On Being — conversation about meaning, religion, ethics, and ideas. Today, "The Mystery We Are" — a public discussion with astrophysicist Marcelo Gleiser and novelist Marilynne Robinson. Ms. Tippett: Here's a line of Reverend Ames in Gilead: "This is an interesting planet. It deserves all the attention you can give it." Just before we finish, let's talk a little bit about mind, which takes us a little bit outside the realm of physics, but very much into your writing, Marilynne. Ms. Robinson: Mm-hmm. Ms. Tippett: And somehow, the primacy, the centrality of our minds, the power of them, even in all of this discerning of distant galaxies. Ms. Robinson: Well, it's I think one of the things that is fascinating is that we don't know who we are. Human beings in acting out history describe themselves and every new epic is a new description of what human beings are. Every life is a new description of what human beings are. Every work of science, every object of art is new information. And it is inconceivable at this point that we could say anything final about what the human mind is, because it is demonstrating, you know, in beautiful ways and terrifying ways, that it will surprise us over and over and over again. You know? And if I read something that seems to me — I mean, we have mind in two senses, or of several senses, but one of them is this sort of the individual striving mind: I want to come up to the mark. I want to follow my passion. I want to let myself think about something that seems beautiful to me. There's that mind. And then there is the larger collective mind that somehow or other seems to sort of magnify impulses and so on that occur among us individually. You know, when you think how even the most brilliant people living, you know, in the first century would see how we know and what we know now and so on, which is basically a pure elaboration of what they'd already started, nevertheless they would be completely astonished, they would say, that human beings could've done such a thing. You know? We know things about our minds because we have seen them reaching and reaching and unfolding in this uncanny way that they do. And I just think that undervaluing mind, it distorts what we're capable of. You know? I don't know. That's what I think. I think the mind is fantastically competent and beautiful and in a very large degree unexplored. Ms. Tippett: Marcelo, is this new frontier of mind and consciousness, is it challenging for physics? Or where does it fit into your way of seeing the world? Dr. Gleiser: It's very challenging, because the way physics traditionally has worked is through this reductionistic method, right? You look at a complicated problem, you break it down into small parts, you understand how these small parts work and then try to make sense of the whole. And this extrapolation works beautifully when you talk about stars and galaxies, but it really fails miserably when you're talking about the mind or the brain. Right? So as I said earlier on, you can't understand the brain by understanding how a neuron works. And so it poses a tremendous difficulty for physics because we can't model the brain. Right? And physicists, that's what we do for a living. We make models. We test our hypothesis. And we need a different kind of explanatory, descriptive tool. Dr. Gleiser: Because the way we have dealt with things just won't work for the brain. So what would that be now, right? So there is this whole new notion that comes from complexity theory that the mind is an emergent phenomenon that we can't quite explain that has to do with the concatenation of many different groups of neurons at the same time. So the interesting thing about that is that, if that is true, then new laws will emerge at different levels of complexity. And you can't go from one level to the other level directly. You really need a completely different kind of explanation. And we're not there yet, but it's just an alternative way of thinking about how the brain works. And to me, given the complexity, even if we go there and we gain some level of understanding above what we know now, it's always going to be incomplete, just like Marilynne said. Ms. Tippett: But I think that part is exciting for you, the fact that it will be incomplete, the fact that there will always be more to learn. Dr. Gleiser: Yes. When I was saying this, I was thinking can we ever build a machine that thinks? Right? That's really the question, right? Because if you could build a clock that thinks, right, then you'd really say, yes, we mechanized the brain and we understand exactly how it works and what are the rules that make it all make sense. But I am a skeptic when it comes to that. I really am, at least for the foreseeable future. I don't see how even increasing the power of computers we'll be able to do that. What we will be able to do is what the Internet is already doing, which is creating an enormous databank of information that will almost look intelligent, but you will always be asking the questions. You know, it's the asking of the question that is the mystery, not so much how you find the ways to answer it. Ms. Tippett: Hmm. Hmm. I think that's a wonderful thought, that the asking of the questions is the mystery. I occurred to me when I was reading both of you and thinking about this conversation how much a novelist and a scientist, a physicist, have in common as creators and discovers. Ms. Robinson: I'm flattered. Dr. Gleiser: So am I. I mean, novelists create universes, right? Talk about a multiverse. You know, the mind of a novelist is a huge multiverse, because they are creating all these different dynamics and people that don't exist. So in a sense, you know, you are playing with inventing lives and minds and stories. So you are amplifying the mind every time you do such a thing. Ms. Robinson: Yes. It's that problem of plausibility, you know? Making what even appears to be a sort of working model of a human personality is such a delicate thing. Dr. Gleiser: For sure. You know? Yes. How is it that you say? That fiction is it's telling lies but want to make sure they sound like truth. Ms. Robinson: Exactly. Dr. Gleiser: Right? Dr. Gleiser: And we're trying to do something similar. We're trying to make models, which are never the whole truth of nature. That is a fundamental point. Every model is a lie, but some models explain more than others. Ms. Tippett: Hmm. Ms. Robinson: I tell my students, actually, that the mind continuously creates hypotheses. You know, tomorrow is a hypothesis. You have some theory of the general shape of tomorrow, which could be completely false, completely inaccurate, but you have to have the hypothesis in order to be sane and act rationally in the world and so on. And when you're writing fiction you're doing something of the same kind. You know, or when you're making a scientific theory you're doing something of the same kind. This is the best model I can create of what this reality would be, you know. And in fiction, unless the fiction fails, the hypothesis does not get exploded but at the same time you always understand its hypothetical nature. You know? Whereas in science the hypothesis is floated and retrieves what it can and explodes if it needs to, you know. Ms. Robinson: Absolutely. And thank God when they do. Dr. Gleiser: Because we do too. You know, when you're working on a technical problem it seems to have a way to go. That we are not always in control; we're just making sure all the minus signs and the plus signs match. Ms. Robinson: Wonderful. Dr. Gleiser: You know? But it really has a way that it wants to go, which is kind of beyond what we have total control of. Ms. Robinson: That's fascinating. It is. Dr. Gleiser: And when you find the solution or something that looks like a solution, you get emotionally moved to an amazing extent, especially when it's a surprising thing. You know, it really is a spiritual emotion. Like, I've had this a few times — not many. I actually probably had it several times but I just had a couple. But when I have this, it really is something transcendent. Ms. Robinson: Do you think that, for example, teleology might be an inadequate way of articulating what you're talking about? You know, I mean, teleology is sort of forbidden, but you can feel the shape of something pulling you toward something that you don't intend and it's as if the shape is somehow intrinsic and the conclusion is somehow necessary? Dr. Gleiser: That's funny because you phrased it in the negative. But that's very smart. Maybe? I am always afraid of teleology. You know, teleology has so many different traps. And so the question is always if it's teleology who's in control? And I don't know. Ms. Robinson: Exactly. Dr. Gleiser: You know, who are your characters there driving you? Ms. Robinson: Yeah. Dr. Gleiser: Right? Ms. Robinson: But you don't know who's in control and you have the feeling that there is some sort of intrinsic control emerging. In the sense, for example, that if you're creating a character and you ask him to do the wrong thing, use the wrong language, or leave when the conversation isn't over, he refuses. You know? And I'm sure that when you're doing something like that you just, you take a wrong turn and it tells you it's a wrong turn. Dr. Gleiser: Yes. Ms. Robinson: In some way. Dr. Gleiser: Absolutely. You know you're going wrong. You completely do. And that's what's hard about science and, you know, about fiction writing is that sometimes you're forced to go where you don't want to go because otherwise you are violating a certain law, you know. And it's just horrifying, right, because you really want to prove something, but you can't, because it's wrong. And you really believe in it but that's not good enough, right? And that's sort of the ruthless aspect, you know, of science in a sense that — I don't know, maybe as fiction you have a little more freedom, you know, than we do in that sense. Ms. Robinson: Or another kind. Ms. Tippett: So, you know, I think in a very remarkable way we've ended up back at the mystery of creation and even wandered into free will, but we don't have time to go there this evening. And so I want to thank Marcelo Gleiser and Marilynne Robinson and Templeton Foundation and Center of Theological Inquiry for hosting this. It was lovely to be here. Ms. Tippett: Marcelo Gleiser is Appleton Professor of Natural Philosophy and Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Dartmouth College. He's the author of The Dancing Universe: From Creation Myths to the Big Bang and A Tear at the Edge of Creation: A Radical New Vision for Life in an Imperfect Cosmos. Marilynne Robinson is a professor at the University of Iowa Writers' Workshop. She's the author of several novels — Housekeeping, Home, and Gilead, which won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction. Her works of nonfiction include Absence of Mind. To listen again, download this show, or hear my unedited public conversation with Marilynne Robinson and Marcelo Gleiser, go to our website at While you're there, you can also find ways to follow us on Tumblr. On Facebook, we're at On Twitter, follow our show @beingtweets. Follow me @kristatippett. Ms. Tippett: Next time, shaping our technology to human purposes with MIT's Sherry Turkle. Please join us. This is APM — American Public Media. Voices on the Radio	http://www.onbeing.org/program/marilynne-robinson-marcelo-gleiser-mystery-we-are/transcript/4918	<urn:uuid:b5d984f6-12d8-49f6-9118-1bdc4a258f26>	en	0.975201	0.107029
A Stall Team (Peaked at #4 on UU Leaderboard) Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Jubilee, Jul 30, 2010. 1. Jubilee is a Contributor Alumnus Jun 20, 2009 I began a few months ago to really get into the UU tier. It was just way more fun to me than the boring OU with every team being the same... After doing ok on the ladder, I faced a few stall teams, and I just lost to each one. So I decided to make my own stall team. This team by far is my most successful team, and it peaked at a CRE of 1706 as SUBAKI7134 and got me to #4 on the leaderboard last round. Team Building Process Team Building Process (open) Every stall team needs a Pokemon to set up hazards. Omastar was perfect for this role because it has access to Stealth Rock AND Spikes, something not many UU / NU Pokemon can do. And, it has incredible physical bulk. Every stall team also needs a special wall. What Pokemon is better than the sister of the biggest OU pink whore? Chansey has incredible special bulk and the ability to Wish pass. I love Clefable. Its ability is just incredible. I needed a Pokemon who could absorb status / Leech Seed, and Clefable fits that role perfectly. Encore is very, very useful and stops any sweeper trying to set up on its tracks. I couldn't pass Clefable up. Ok, looking at my team I had three Pokemon weak to Fighting, and had a physical sweeper weakness. I looked through UU and saw Weezing. It was perfect with its incredible Defense, and immunity to Ground and resistance to Fighting moves. I was also looking for a Pokemon to absorb Venusaur's Sleep Powders as well and I saw Weezing's RestTalk set. I had my fourth member chosen. Now looking at my team, I noticed I needed a mixed wall. Milotic fits that role perfectly with its incredible bulk from both sides, and has access to Recover. Now I needed a Rapid Spin blocker. Looking through the Ghosts of UU, I had to choose Spiritomb with its great Defenses (Why couldn't Game Freak give him better HP? :( ) Looking at my team I noticed how Ghosts like Rotom and Mismagius ran through my team, as Clefable and Chansey cant touch them behind Substitutes. I saw Spiritomb's Pursuit set and knew I had my spin blocker chosen. The Hazard Lead [IMG][IMG] Leftovers Nature: Bold Ability: Shell Armor EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe 1) Surf 2) Stealth Rock 3) Earth Power 4) Spikes Description: Max HP / almost max Defense gives Omastar the most physical bulk it can have with 8 Speed EVs to outspeed opposing Omastar leads. Surf for STAB, Earth Power for Qwilfish, Cloyster, and Kabutops leads. Stealth Rock and Spikes for entry hazards. Omastar against Top 10 Leads Uxie - I use Spikes first to see if it's a TrickScarf variant, but if it Grass Knots (fails to KO) then I switch to Clefable. Ambipom - It Fake Outs, and then I Surf as it Taunts. I then Surf again as it U-turns and act accordingly to what comes in. Mesprit - I switch to Clefable as it Grass Knots. I then Encore it as it uses Stealth Rock and then Trick whatever comes in. Omastar - Earth Power and hope it runs the standard spread as I outspeed it for the 2HKO. Spiritomb - I first Stealth Rock and take 50-60% from Shadow Ball / Hidden Power then switch to Chansey and Toxic it. Alakazam - Go straight to Spiritomb and Pursuit it as Alakazam fails to do anything to Tomb. Cloyster - I just keep Earth Powering until it's KOed. It usually gets three layers up... good thing I personally don't see too many. Moltres - I go straight to Chansey as it uses HP Grass. Hippopatos - Surf and then Surf again for the KO. Qwilfish - Earth Power as it uses Taunt / Spikes so it can only get up a max layer of two Spikes. The Encorer [IMG][IMG] Flame Orb Nature: Calm Ability: Magic Guard EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 120 SpD / 12 Spe 1) Seismic Toss 2) Encore 3) Softboiled 4) Trick Description: These are almost the standard EVs for Clefable, giving it the most bulk it can have from both sides. Except, I run 12 Speed EVs to outspeed ALL standard Clefable so I can easily beat them by Encoring and Seismic Tossing them first every time. I use Seismic Toss so I don't have to rely on Clefable's below average Attack stats and Encore for Pokemon trying to set up on me. I chose Flame Orb as I got tired of Pokemon like Rhyperior, Hitmonlee, and Donphan coming in on me to absorb the T-Wave. Afterward, I get to watch one of these so-called "counters" suffer from a burn. Softboiled is used to recover any damage done. Clefable is an extremely helpful member of this team protecting the team from SubSeeders, SubRoosters, Rest-Talkers, and most importantly it has Encore, which without my team would be swept by numerous Pokemon. The Special Wall / Wish Passer [IMG][IMG] Shed Shell / [IMG] Leftovers Nature: Calm Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe 1) Seismic Toss 2) Wish 3) Protect 4) Toxic Description: This is the standard EV spread for a Wish passing Chansey. Toxic is used to stall out special attackers with Wish and Protect. Wish helps heal weakened team members, especially Spiritomb who has no way to recover HP on its own. I know you're thinking that Leftovers is the better option on Chansey, seeing its only use is for Dugtrio who isn't used much. I just couldn't stand being trapped by Dugtrio and being completely helpless against it, although I am considerign changing due to Dugtrio usage dropping. Chansey protects the team from powerful Special Attackers like Alakazam, Moltres, Houndoom, and much more that other members of the team can't handle. The Mixed Wall / Hazer [IMG][IMG] Leftovers Nature: Bold Ability: Marvel Scale EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD 1) Surf 2) Ice Beam 3) Recover 4) Haze / Hidden Power [IMG] Description: Max HP and 58 SpD EVs give Milotic a little special bulk with the rest in its Defenses. Surf for STAB, and Ice Beam for Grass-types who love to come in on it. At first I had HP Psychic over Haze for those stupid Toxicroaks trying to set up on me. But then, I later realized Haze was far better, as it helps me against DD / SD Feraligatr and CM mono attacking Spiritomb, as Spiritomb runs through this team if Clefable is gone. Recover is used to recover off any damage Milotic has taken. Milotic is the only thing keeping mixed sweepers like Blaziken from running through my team and it keeps alot of other dangerous sweepers at bay like Rhyperior, Altaria, and Drapion to name a few. The Physical Wall / Status Absorber [IMG][IMG] Leftovers Nature: Bold Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 58 SpD 1) Sludge Bomb 2) Will-O-Wisp / Flamethrower 3) Rest 4) Sleep Talk Description: 252 HP EVs for max HP, 200 Def EVs for physical bulk, and 58 SpD EVs to give it some special bulk to absorb hits from the versatile Venusaur. Sludge Bomb for STAB and I just didn't like using Thunderbolt / Flamethrower. And, the chance of poisoning is great. I love how Houndoom loves to come in on expecting a Will-O-Wisp or Flamethrower only to be hit by Sludge Bomb. Rest for recovery as I don't like Pain Split much and Sleep Talk so it's not a sitting duck when asleep and so it can absorb sleep moves. And finally Will-O-Wisp to cripple all physical attackers. Weezing is my go to Pokemon for all Fighting- type Pokemon and other strong physical attaclers that the other team members cant handle like Hitmonlee, SD Venusaur, and Heracross to name a few. The Pursuit Trapper / Spin Blocker [IMG][IMG] Leftovers Nature: Sassy Ability: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 SpD 1) Dark Pulse 2) Pursuit 3) Shadow Sneak 4) Will-O-Wisp Description: These are the standard EVs for Spiritomb nowaday, 252 HP for bulk and 252 SpD to take as much special damage as possible. Dark Pulse for the incredibly annoying Will-O-Wisp Ghosts-, Pursuit for Ghost- and Psychic-types trying to escape, Shadow Sneak to hit Ghosts for quick super effective damage and, Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers like Drapion and Toxicroak who would otherwise take little damage from this set. Spiritomb is a very crucial member of this team protecting it from Substitute using Ghosts that would other wise run right through this team. A Pokemon I'd love to fit on this team [IMG][IMG] Leftovers Nature: Impish Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 SpD 1) Close Combat 2) Rapid Spin 3) Foresight 4) Sucker Punch / Rest Why?: Id love to fit a Hitmontop on this team because my team lacks a Rapid Spinner. And some Pokemon who fail to 2HKO my Pokemon will 2HKO them with enough hazards on my team which could lead to me being swept. It would also take care of my Aggron weakness. The problem is, I don't see anything I can replace it with... if someone could give me a good enough reason on why I should replace it with "X" Pokemon or why I shouldn't, that would be great. Threat List (Sorry Eo but I jacked this from your RMT ;___;) Red means this Pokemon is a big threat. Blue means this Pokemon is a moderate threat. Black means this Pokemon is easily handled. UU Threats Absol - Milotic and Weezing can take a +2 Attack, I just have to hope it doesn't crit either of them, and hopefully I have entry hazards up so it dies quickly from LO. Aggron - This Pokemon is a MAJOR threat. I can't switch in anything on it, as it 2HKOes everything. If it comes in on Chansey / Clefable, I have to sacrifice them as I cant switch in Milotic and risk Aggron being Jolly and being 2HKOd. A smart player can keep switching it in and out until my special walls are gone. Alakazam -Switch to Spiritomb, Pursuit it and it's KOed. Not a big threat at all. Chansey can take it on as well, even though a Specs Focus Blast is going to hurt. (Noob thund and your Zam nom :P <3) Altaria - Clefable can Encore / Trick DD variants, Milotic can Haze / Ice Beam DD variants as well. Support variants are handled by Clefable easily; just Encore and Seismic Toss it until it's KOed. Azumarill - Choice Band variants are easily handled by Milotic, Weezing, and Spiritomb. SubPunch variants can be Encored by Clefable and taken on by Weezing. Blaziken - Milotic is my only hope against it, but luckily Milotic isn't 2HKOed by anything it can throw (bar SD variants but those aren't very common at all). Chansey - Clefable can Encore it and keep Seismic Tossing, while it cant do much to Clefable and my own Chansey. Claydol - Go to Tomb as it Rapid Spins, Pursuit it, and then it isn't a problem anymore. Clefable - This is exactly why I run Speed EVs on my Clefable to outspeed the standard Clefable. Encore it on a Seismic Toss and then Seismic Toss it till it's KOed, and Softboiled when I'm on low health. Belly Drum variants are hard to wall as it outspeeds Milo for Haze, but hopefully it isn't carrying a Toxic Orb and I can burn it; also, good thing they're not common. Cloyster - Cloyster is blue just because I hate him. It gets to set up 2-3 layers of Spikes on Omastar as Earth Power fails to 2HKO... Donphan - Milotic can Surf for a OHKO. Go to Spiritomb for the spin block, switch to Milo as it EQs, and Surf / Recover depending on the situation and what my opponent's team is. Drapion - Omastar can Earth Power for good damage, Milotic can take any attack at +2 and Surf, and so can Weezing with Flamethrower. Clefable can Encore / Trick it. Bulky SD variants with Taunt can be annoying though and do some damage to me. Dugtrio - Weak dicks are weak. Milotic can OHKO it. Has no chance whatsoever against Weezing, and Tomb can Sucker Punch. It can come in on Clefable in low health and KO it though. Feraligatr - Milotic can Haze and Surf it until it's KOed. Clefable can Encore / Trick it. Weezing can take a +2 Waterfall and Sludge Bomb. Hariyama - Lead Hariyama is annoying, as I have to switch out Omastar and bring in Weezing. Other than lead Hariyama, it isn't very common. Hitmonlee - Weezing can take anything it can throw at it and take it out with Sludge Bomb. I usually go to Tomb first as it uses Close Combat, and then Pursuit it for some damage. Hitmontop - If Milotic / Omastar are in, I usually stay in and Surf as the spinner variants Foresight, then I go to Tomb and Will-O-Wisp it. Then I go to Weezing, but unfortunately it always gets to spin my entry hazards away. Luckily, I always try and keep Omastar in good health for putting them back up. Houndoom - Good thing Spikes + Stealth Rock + Life Orb take a toll on it, as even Chansey is getting hurt by Fire Blast at +2. Milotic can take a Dark Pulse at +2 but, I try and keep Milotic healthy to wall some of the specific Pokemon only it can take on. Kabutops - Lead variants are easily beat by Omastar, as it uses Earth Power first turn then Surf. SD variants are dangerous, because without Milo I have nothing to take it out, and even Milo can be OHKOed by a +2 LO Stone Edge. Lanturn - Clefable can Trick and Seismic Toss it until it's KOed. Chansey can take anything it has and Toxic it. Leafeon - Weezing can take anything it has at +2. Ludicolo - Chansey can take all LO special sets easily. I usually go to Chansey as it Surfs, and then Toxic it. If it has Leech Seed I go to Clefable and Softboiled as Toxic takes its toll. SD variants are handled by Weezing, but if Waterfall flinches though it's GG >.< Mesprit - Go to Clefable as lead variants Grass Knot, and then Encore as it SRs and Trick whatever comes in. Physical Scarf variants are easily handled by Tomb. CM variants are easily handled by Clefable and Chansey. Milotic - Clefable can handle bulky variants, Encore it on a Surf, and keep Seismic Tossing until it's KOed. LO variants are handled by Chansey. Miltank - Clefable can Trick any Miltank a Flame Orb which completely cripples it, and Curse variants are handled by Clefable's Encore and Milotic's Haze. Mismagius - Spiritomb can take CM and Nasty Plot variants, because even at +2 Shadow Ball isn't OHKOing it at full health. The only reason Mismagius is red is because of its Bulky Ghost set. With Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Shadow Ball / Pain Split it completely shuts down my entire team if Spiritomb is gone. Moltres - Chansey can Toxic LO variants and Milotic can handle it as well. SubRoost variants are easily handled by Clefable. Nidoking - Milotic cant really switch in on it, as Earth Power + Thunderbolt + SR is going to hurt too much and possibly KO. I usually have to predict around it and Spiritomb can Sucker Punch it to low health. Omastar - I Earth Power and hope they run the standard spread which I outspeed. Poliwrath - Clefable actually easily handles it. Switch it in as it Substitutes on Milotic / Tomb and Encore its Substitute as it tries to Focus Punch. Weezing can handle it as well. Regirock - Milotic beats it down with Surf, and Clefable handles Curse variants with Encore / Trick. Registeel - Again Clefable can Encore it as it uses Iron Head / Seismic Toss and Trick it and Seismic Toss it until it's KOed. Rhyperior - Milo outspeeds and OHKOes all variants. I usually switch in Milo as it EQs / SEs and then Recover as it switches out. It comes in on Chansey / Clefable a lot only to be Toxiced or Tricked a Flame Orb. Without Milotic it runs through my whole team. My only hope is to Trick it a Flame Orb or stall out Stone Edge's PP with Weezing's Rest. Rotom - Spiritomb can Shadow Sneak / Pursuit it, and Clefable can take on Will-O-Wisp / Charge Beam versions. Not much of a problem. Sceptile - I usually switch to Weezing to find out what set it's running, as switching to Chansey to take the Leaf Storm can potentially be dangerous as it could be an SD set. Once I find out what set it's running I have each set covered. SD sets are easily handled by Weezing, Specs sets are easily handled by Chansey, and Leech Seed sets are handled by Clefable. Scyther - Weezing can handle SD variants, even though a +2 Aerial Ace is going to do a lot. Spiritomb can Sucker Punch for the KO (at 50% or so). Milotic can Ice Beam it. Slowbro - Clefable Encores CM variants, and easily handles bulky variants with Encore / Seismic Toss. Chansey can Toxic it as well. Slowking - Same story as Slowbro... Spiritomb - Clefable can Encore / Trick CM variants, and Milotic has Haze CM variants as well. Choice Band variants are handled by those two as well. Steelix - Omastar and Milotic can OHKO with Surf. Swellow - Omastar can easily take anything it has, and Weezing and Milotic can take it on as well, although both are 2HKOed by it... Spiritomb can Sucker Punch it as well. Tangrowth - Weezing does A LOT of damage with Sludge Bomb and can absorb the Sleep Powder, and Clefable can take the Leech Seed and Trick it a Flame Orb. Torterra - Weezing easily handles any set it has. Toxicroak - Weezing can Flamethrower for the 2HKO as Toxicroak does shit damage at +2. I used to HP Psychic it with Milo but I changed HP Psychic to Haze. Nasty Plot variants with Focus Blast could be dangerous, but luckily they aren't common. Uxie - I usually use Spikes and see if it Tricks Omastar. If it Grass Knots then I switch to Clefable. Isn't a threat at all. Venusaur - I switch to Weezing to absorb the sleep, and Weezing can take on SD variants (Unless I get lucky with Sleep Talk and it hasd Return) and USUALLY can take on LO variants. Bulky variants are easily handled by Clefable. Weezing - Clefable can handle anything it has, and so can Chansey. NU Threats Articuno - Chansey handles LO variants even though they are very, very uncommon, and Clefable easily handles the SubRoost variants. Cradily - Clefable can Encore / Trick Curse variants, but I haven't seen any other Cradily then Curse ones. Exeggutor - The only reason it's blue is because I hate it. I HATE Exeggutor. Usually I will sac something for the Sleep Powder and go to Chansey for the Leaf Storm, although I have to be careful for the potential Explosion. Jynx - Usually I switch to Weezing for the Lovely Kiss, and then Tomb as it Subs. Chansey can handle it as well. Milotic can Haze it, and Clefable can Encore it. Kangaskhan - Kangaskhan is bulky and hits hard as hell with Choice Band. It 2HKOs everything besides Omastar with Band Double-Edge. I just have to wear it down, but usually something is getting KOed. Lapras - Special variants are easily handled by Chansey, I have never seen a DD variant but that would be handled by Haze from Milotic, and Trick / Encore from Clefable. Manectric - SubCharge sets are handled by Chansey. I have to watch out for Switcheroo though. Magmortar - Just like Nidoking I have to be careful with it. It's very dangerous if it carries Cross Chop, but luckily Spikes + SR + LO will wear it down. Spiritomb can Sucker Punch when it's low on health. Choice sets are easily handled by Chansey though. Ninetales - Chansey can Toxic it, Clefable can Encore it, and Milotic can Haze and Surf it. Pinsir - Uhh Mold Breaker is annoying... hitting Weezing hard with EQ. Milotic can take it out in low health with Surf, and Spiritomb can Sucker Punch / burn it. Luckily, it's not very common at all. The only ones I've seen are Scarfed which Weezing can handle with prediction and lead ones which fails to 2HKO Omastar with Earthquake. Qwilfish - This is why Omastar has Earth Power, because it's annoying as hell. SD variants are very dangerous as it can 2HKO everything on my team and Explode. Just got to wear it down with SR + Spikes + LO. Ursaring - Spiritomb laughs as it fails to hit it with Facade. Sucker Punch 2HKOs. Special Thanks: Thanks to Aromaflora for helping me with the team, staying with me on shoddy for hours, and using her awesome grammar skills to check all my mistakes on this RMT! Thanks! <3 2. dws93rd Jul 12, 2010 Well, from my time playing UU, albeit short, this team looks as though it covers almost every threat and looks like a very solid team. The first thing I would suggest is to put WoW on Weezing as it will help your team with the Aggron problem since it cripples him and makes him next to useless. Also, I would highly suggest changing Weezing to the standard Weezing and making Milotic's set a variant of a RestTalk set. IMO, Milotic's natural bulk+Marvel Scale activated thanks to Rest, will make it a much better wall and user of RestTalk than Weezing as it will multiply Milotic's Defense by 1.5, allowing it to take hits from just about anything in UU. I could see Hitmontop filling the spot of Clefable on your team with the set you listed, but with an Adamant nature and 252 Atk Evs, as that way you can always OHKO and Aggron, with or without Entry Hazards Hitmontop @ leftovers Nature: Adamant Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD 1) Close Combat 2) Rapid Spin 3) Foresight 4) Sucker Punch Not to mention, this set can 2HKO any Mismagius, including the BUlky Ghost you have trouble with. Plus, he can OHKO Chansey(if it takes damage from Entry Hazards tehn its a sure OHKO) and can 2HKO the more defensive Clefables, while OHKO'ing the more offensive ones, such as the StallBreaker. Also, Intimidate softens those blows from physical attackers. 3. Jubilee is a Contributor Alumnus Jun 20, 2009 Thanks for the rate dws93rd, I will change Flamethrower to WoW on Weezing and will give it a test. Im going to have to keep Weezing as my Rest Talker though as he can actually stay in on Venusaur. Also I like having Milotic be able to reliably heal its HP with Recover. I honestly dont like the idea of switching out Clefable for Hitmontop either, Clefables Encore's are very very valuable to this team. If I get more comments on that though I wil try it. 4. tawp64 Feb 8, 2010 If anything, this needs a grounded poison type. Toxic spikes can threaten this team greatly, and weezing can't stop it because he has levitate. An option is to change softboiled on clefable for wish, and replace wish on chansey for aromatheropy/heal bell. That way, you're safe from toxic spikes. Then again, Hitmontop helps with rapid spin if you want to replace something. Or, you could just use the grounded poison like drapion, who provides toxic spikes itself. It's bulky and can stop many sweepers. But idk where to put it. Anyways, congratualtions on the CRE! 5. NightShadow Jun 3, 2010 i don't think clefable is very helpful and as dws93rd rightly said, hitmontop should replace it since it can spin away rocks, spikes and t-spikes. however, you do not have a single pokemon which can set up t-spikes, which is ridiculous for a stall team. i would suggest changing spikes to t-spikes on omastar (if it can learn, i'm not sure =.=). overall, GREAT team. very solid. 6. Jubilee is a Contributor Alumnus Jun 20, 2009 Clefable is very very helpful with Encore, Tricking Flame Orb, and its ability. Ive tried using Hitmontop and I honestly like having Clefable more. Numerous times when I switched out Clefable for Hitmontop id find myself trying to switch in Clefable and realizing "oh yeah took her out". Shes very useful to this team even if both her and Chansey are on it. Toxic Spikes in my opinion are INCREDIBLY stupid in UU. Venusaur is the #1 Pokemon in UU, absorbs them and makes those turns of setting them up pointless. 7. august august its hard to miss you when you follow us around is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion Nov 25, 2007 Alright a few things quick: Use Careful 252 HP / 252 SDef on Spiritomb or you'll have a ton of trouble with Sub LO Split Rotom and alot more Taunt NP Mismagius troubles. As it is right now, your Spiritomb isn't specially bulky enough to be considered a ghost counter (its nearly 2HKO'd by Scarf Rotom TBolt after SR, and gets nuked by Specs TBolt), and by running Careful you'll have more insurance against CM Zam too since it wrecks stall if Tomb is gone. Will O Wisp would be ideal on Tomb too, so Absol doesn't set up in your face. Speaking of Absol you have a pretty big Absol weak. I really don't see merit in both Chansey AND Clefable, i'd go for one or the other so you can fit Top on the team and fix the massive weakness to CB Aggron / Absol / Taunt Swords Dance Drapion and a load of other stuff. You also really need a spinner because as it is right now, you lose pretty handily to other stall, seeing as Omastar sets up on Weezing and Spiritomb with no trouble, and Hitmontop laughs at your Spiritomb. I also don't understand Wish on Chansey. If you use Rest on Spiritomb (which you should) then the only mon without recovery is Omastar. I'd much rather use Aromatherapy / Heal Bell Chansey so you atleast have a cleric, which helps Milo alot considering it has trouble countering Curse Registeel / CM Tomb and stuff like that if it gets Toxiced. good luck beating other stall without toxic spikes 8. ShinyAzelf is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus Jan 18, 2010 Hey, fixing your Aggron problem, you could run 84 speed EVs on Milotic, so it can outspeed Jolly Aggron (you hit 219 speed, and Jolly Aggron hits 218 speed) so you can nail it with a Surf. How about this set? Milotic @ Leftovers Nature: Bold Ability: Marvel Scale EVs: 244 HP/160 Def/20 Sp. Def/84 Spe -Ice Beam -Haze/HP Psychic I'm not sure if HP Psychic lowers your Speed IV so you may have to run more speed EVs if so. I know you say you won't change Shed Shell on Chansey, and I might not be able to convince you to change to Leftovers, but whenever someone traps me using Dugtrio while my Chansey is out, Life Orbed Earthquake from Jolly Dugtrio does around 55% which combined with Softboiled and leftovers in my case can stall it out (provided crits aren't present). In your case, you can stall out with Wish/Protect. Yes, I know there are Choice Banded Dugtrios which do 70% to you, so if thats the case, I get a Seismic Toss on him, and in your case, I'd finish him off with a Sucker Punch/Pursuit from Spiritomb, depending what your opponent will do. Not much about the team. Its great and good luck. =) 9. franky is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus Apr 12, 2009 Go for Psychic > Sucker Punch on Tomb to deal with Toxicroak - a problem that can beat your team quite easily given the multiple opportunities it has. To name a few though, it can hit Venu and Hariyama for super effective damage as well. Go for august idea with going 252/252 sassy nature on tomb as it maximizes on checking Missy, Zam, and Rotom (especially sublosplit). There is no need to pour in all of those attacks since most of these aforementioned threats are really frail on the physical end anyways. Clefable needs to go - both Chansey and Clefable are redundant when they are placed on the same team. i have two propositions to make: go for the ev change for Weezing to a little more specially defensive to maximize on checking both sd, mix sceptile and venusaur variants. However, you'd need to add a physically defensive venusaur in exchange of Clefable! A physical venu will take care of not only leafeon (sd + double edge bypasses weezing), it also deals with Feraligatr and Azum since Milotic lacks hp grass. Additionally, venu gives you a much needed Milotic check because god knows one Milotic that will stay in on Chansey so it will be hard for it to induce Toxic. Go for Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb / Synthesis / Roar with the evs 252 HP / 168 def / 16 spe / 72 spd with the bold nature. This spread optimizes on checking physical threats, surviving +2 lo shadow ball from missy (if the need arises), and outpaces adamant aggron! Roar is there over sleep powder to add more spikes damage and ultimately help you against enemy stall teams. As for other options, go for a simple 252/252 bold spread on Milo. Cmon, Moltres is already put in check by the defensive juggernaut Chansey so there is no need to pour in all of that. overall gl! 10. Jubilee is a Contributor Alumnus Jun 20, 2009 Thanks for the rate August. I changed Tomb to Careful 252/252 and I really like being able to take the hits from Ghosts alot better, the damage it does is quite poor though. But its better then him getting KOed and being swept by a ghost (He still 2HKO's Missy / Rotom with Shadow Sneak with the spread you listed). I used Wish / Protect for Toxic stalling, I tried using Softboiled / Heal Bell with Rest Hitmontop and it worked pretty well. Thanks for the rate franky. I cant fit Shadow Sneak / Pursuit / WoW / Rest / Dark Pulse / Psychic Shadow Sneak / Pursuit are the two moves I'd deffinately and will keep. So any opinion on what last two moves...? Dakr Pulse will prove useful for those evil stall breaking Mismagius's, WoW is nice for things like Drapion and Toxicrok that can set up on this set, Psychic doesnt have much use besides Toxicroak and Hitmontop... Hitting Spinner Hitmontop super effectively looks really nice though lol. On adding Saur I think I'd much rather add a Defensive Hitmontop then Defensive Venusaur. I already have changed Milotic's EV's to 252/252, I just forgot to edit my post. And about everyone commenting on Clefable AND Chansey. Yea I know they both do almost the exact thing, but Chansey can take attacks Clefable cant, Like +2 LO Houndoom Fire Blast, Moltres, Alakazam (To an extent), and a few others I cant think of right now. Clefable has Magic Guard and Encore. Two things that have been very important to this team (I cant stress how useful Encore is...), and have deffinately saved me more then once. Ill give Leftovers a try on Chansey and see how it works. The Speed EV's on Milo arent something id change though, thats sacrificing too much Defense imo. =/ And yes HP Psychic does lower your Speed IV. :x 11. Diesel Aug 6, 2007 Lol I'm glad I clicked on this because I made a nearly identical team except I had Hitmontop over Chansey (and more specially defensive spreads on a few pokemon). All I can say is don't do that, because I really didn't have a lot of success and found I didn't have the switch-in ability to certain special attackers, especially if Spiritomb bit the dust early defending my Spikes, and tbh I really don't like Top much in general. Anyway, nice team and congrats on the success I didn't have. Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)	http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-stall-team-peaked-at-4-on-uu-leaderboard.76069/	<urn:uuid:a833fdfc-e71d-44e8-b849-926dfcbec111>	en	0.938786	0.027283
Chapter 11: Revelations and Complications Nothing decided! Then what were you all doing? You were shut up for hours. Talking. There was a deal of talk, and everyone had an eye-opener. Even old Gandalf. I think Legolas's bit of news about Gollum caught even him on the hop, though he passed it off. Pippin and Bilbo—The Fellowship of the Ring (The Ring Goes South) Gimli would be the first to admit that when it came to finding one's way around an unexplored cavern, there were better dwarves for the job. Not that Gimli was unskilled in such matters. Far from it. He was leagues ahead of any man or elf and far more adept than most hobbits. But among his own people, Gimli's talents beneath the earth were considered average at best. He had a discerning eye when it came to the potential of virgin lodes, but the actual exploration and excavation of a mine were things that had not interested him as a child. Instead, he had spent most of his youth accompanying ore shipments across Eriador, protecting the goods from thieves and negotiating prices with prospective merchants. A dwarf of "many journeys" was how he had once described himself, and Gimli considered the long years of travel to be years well spent. But he now wished that he had paid better attention to his instructors when they had spoken of the subtle nuances in stone that could enable one to forge a path through uncharted territory. Glaring up at the dark, dusty walls around him, Gimli lifted his torch and studied the hallway carefully. He took note of the size and quality of the stonework as well as the width and height of the passage. He even spent a few minutes inspecting the blackened wall sconces where torches once sat in days long gone. He examined everything he could and made a guess about everything he couldn't, but in the end, he lowered his torch with a sigh, his spirits as dark as his surroundings. He had yet to come across anything that looked familiar, and the further he traveled in the hidden passages of the King's House, the more this concerned him. He still felt that he was going in the right direction. That was a comfort of sorts, though it would have been a greater comfort had Legolas been at his side. The elf was altogether hopeless beneath the ground and had once confessed that the only reason he could navigate his father's subterranean halls was because he had lived in them for centuries. If Legolas's bewildered instincts had been available for comparison, Gimli's vague notion that he was on the correct path would have felt like a near certainty. There was sometimes much comfort to be drawn from the incompetence of others. But Legolas was not here, and therein lay another problem. Gimli's attention was divided between himself and his fear that somewhere a lost and frantic elf had succumbed to the dark and was now beating his head against the stone walls. It might have been an amusing thought under other circumstances, but given the extent of these passages, it could easily take hours to find Legolas once Gimli reached the mains halls and enlisted help. By that time, the elf would have driven himself mad. Madder than he already was. And though Legolas had insisted upon joining the dwarf in these passages, Gimli still felt a measure of responsibility for him. If Legolas removed himself even further from the land of the sane, it would be upon Gimli's head. Scowling at the implications, the dwarf stomped around a corner and found himself at a crossroads adjacent to an ascending staircase. He needed his concentration to decide his next path, so with an embarrassing amount of effort, Gimli pushed Legolas to the back of his mind. There was no use worrying about the elf until he could actually do something to help him, and he would not be able to help him until he found his own way out of the passages. Once Legolas was safely removed from his thoughts, Gimli considered his choices and tried to determine where he currently stood. Calling to mind a mental map of the King's House, he decided that he was probably one level below the nursery, which meant that he should take the stairs. But he was far from certain of this choice, and there was a very good chance that he was already on the nursery's level. He had lost track of the number of stairs that had been climbed, and he was not entirely sure of how many had been descended. Absently tugging at his beard, he walked over to the steps and raised his torch, hoping to see something in the darkness that might help him. But the shadows were loath to give up their secrets, and the dwarf found nothing. Pursing his lips, Gimli wondered what his old instructors would say if they could see him now and decided to hazard one more set of stairs. At the top of the stairs, Gimli was faced with corridor so narrow that he was obliged to turn sideways in order to walk it. Fighting off a disturbing bout of claustrophobia—it was almost elven in nature—he hastened forward and burst into a wider corridor. Stopping to clear his mind, Gimli closed his eyes and sagged against a wall, suddenly grateful that Legolas had decided to become lost on his own. The elf's absence would undoubtedly cause problems later, but at least there had been no witnesses to Gimli's sudden panic. Composing himself, he took a deep breath and opened his eyes, focusing once more upon the stonework. His torch was beginning to sputter, but it still burned brightly enough for Gimli to see something that made him pause. The stonework here looked very similar to the stonework that had lined the walls of the nursery. It was not the same but it was close, and Gimli felt a tremor of excitement race through him. With one hand tracing the patterns upon the wall, he started forward again, scarcely noticing his failing torch. After a few minutes had passed, he came to a crossing hallway, and his eyes were immediately drawn to something in the dust upon the floor. His footprints. And with them, scarce to be seen, a slight distortion in the dust that could only be an elf's footprints. He had done it. He had found a way back to the nursery without the infuriating elf and without taking the same passages they had used when leaving the nursery. Feeling immensely pleased with himself and deciding that he had not needed to pay attention to his old instructors after all, Gimli quickly backtracked along the trail. The torch was dimming quickly now, but Gimli was not concerned. The stonework had begun to look very familiar indeed, and he was convinced that he could reach his goal before the torch failed completely. And a short time later, with his light reduced to no more than the red glow of embers, Gimli stumbled over a pile of unused torches. Even as he tripped, he let out triumphant cry, for he recognized this pile. At least, he thought he did. There was not enough light remaining to be certain, but Gimli felt sure that this was the same pile of torches he had discovered upon entering the secret passages. Dropping his own torch as it fizzled into darkness, he seized one of the new torches and reached into his tunic for his flint and steel. Within moments, the dusty passages were brightly lit once more, and Gimli proceeded to study the walls around him. What he found made him smile. He was correct. This was the same pile of torches that had supplied him with his first torch, and this meant that the nursery was just beyond the walls. Gimli paused to wonder why there was a collection of torches here and not elsewhere, but he pushed that thought aside for more practical concerns. He could ponder the mystery of the torches once he was back in more approved hallways. A quick analysis of the stones in the wall revealed the nursery doorway's exact location, and having discovered that, Gimli looked around for the switch to open it. He expected it to be opposite the stone he had used to close the door, but after a cursory search yielded nothing, he realized that he was working with something a bit more sophisticated than that. With grudging respect for those who had built the King's House, Gimli went back to basics and examined the depressed stone that had closed the nursery door. An experimental push and a tug resulted in the sound of a rattling chain, and Gimli nodded to himself. He was dealing with a locking mechanism and a set of opposing weights. If the door was open, pushing a certain stone inwards—as he had done earlier—raised a weight and a chain that allowed a lighter weight and chain to pull the door shut, whereupon it locked in place. If the lock was released, the heavier weight fell, dragging the door open. It was a simple enough device, and Gimli was familiar with the engineering. There were a few doors in Aglarond that employed a similar design. All he needed to do now was find the stone that released the lock. For a dwarf specifically trained in hidden doorways, this should have taken about two or three minutes. For a dwarf of Gimli's caliber, it should have taken about five minutes. And for a dwarf of any caliber, it should have taken no more than ten minutes. Fifteen minutes later, Gimli was still searching. He had searched the base of the door. He had searched the wall around the door. He had searched the wall opposite the door on the off chance that those who had engineered the lock had run the release over the ceiling and down the other side as a perverse joke. In an act of desperation, he had bodily thrown himself against the door several times, hoping to force the lock. But after all this, the door was still shut and the dwarf was still trapped. Stepping back and giving the immovable stone a baleful glare, Gimli once again felt grateful that Legolas was not here to witness his failure. Or his next actions. For when faced with problems like this, where all attempts had met with defeat, the best recourse was to yell for help. Children were among the most confusing and confounding creatures that Elladan had ever met. The previous evening, he had joined Arwen and Estel in the Queen's Gardens and watched with bemused fascination as Eldarion ate a bug despite his mother's best efforts to prevent it. Elladan now watched that same child adamantly refuse far more conventional fare on the basis that it was repulsive. The bread and dried fruit Elladan had purchased in haste had been all but thrown aside, and even though his stomach was rumbling loudly, Eldarion resolved to have nothing to do with such things. It was only after Elladan bought some especially smelly cheese and complimented it with his own stash of elven bread that Eldarion agreed to eat. By that time, it was almost too late. Watchful for approaching Rohirrim, Elladan caught sight of Lord Elfhelm and a small contingent of Riders entering the Second Circle, and he immediately began looking for places to hide. The markets were still crowded enough that there was little chance of being seen, but he was not about to take chances. Not after Prince Elfwine had managed to find him so easily. "Eldarion?" he hissed, pushing his way to the edge of the streets. Perched on his uncle's hip, Eldarion looked up expectantly, his cheeks flaked with a cheese so strong that Elladan's stomach rolled over. "Eldarion, we are going to play a game," Elladan said, forcing himself to ignore the smell. "But I need you to give me your food for just a moment and climb onto my back. And I need you to be as quiet as possible. Just as you were when you were hiding from Gimli this morning. Can you do that?" Eldarion studied Elladan with solemn, gray eyes that seemed far too old for his four years of age. But then his face brightened in a wide smile and he nodded eagerly, handing over his food and shifting around until his arms twined around Elladan's neck and his legs pressed tightly against his sides. "Good," Elladan said, glancing back at the Rohirrim. They were blocked by the masses but making surprising progress, and Elladan hurriedly ducked into an alley where he had noticed some vines growing down the side of an inn. "Now hold tightly," he whispered, stuffing Eldarion's cheese into a belt pouch as he made his way to the wall. "We are going to do a bit of exploring in an upward direction." Eldarion seemed to approve of this activity, and he giggled softly, spewing cheese across Elladan's shoulders. Deciding not to breathe for the next few minutes, Elladan gauged the distance between himself and the tangled vines, took a few steps back, and then leaped. Forgetting the earlier admonition to be quiet, Eldarion squealed with delight, but Elladan did not stop to hush him. He could feel the vines trembling under their combined weight, and he hastily began climbing, hoping that no one bothered to glance down this alley and that if they did, they would pass this off as an oddity of the elves. Valar take you, Elrohir, he thought darkly as he struggled up the wall. Had you any respect for me at all, you would have allowed me to see distract Elfwine while you cared for Eldarion. A wild shriek in his right ear jerked him from his thoughts, and he suddenly realized two things: he was choking and Eldarion's feet were no longer against his side. Instead, the crown-prince of Gondor was swinging from his uncle's neck and laughing excitedly. A jolt of fear enabled him to hurriedly scramble up the rest of the vines, and with a gasp of relief that involved inhaling a large quantity of Eldarion's cheesy breath, he hauled himself over the edge of the flat roof and collapsed. "Again!" Eldarion commanded, releasing his stranglehold on Elladan's neck and clapping his hands. "In a moment," Elladan said, pulling Eldarion away from the edge. "This is the part of the exploration where we must hide." "Because there are men looking for me and I would rather they did not find me." Elladan was suddenly reminded that aside from the infamous pout of Isildur, Isildur's heirs were also notorious for incessant interrogation sessions. "Because there is a game of sorts going on, and some of those playing the game have been less than kind," he explained patiently. "Legolas, for one, though I suspect that Gimli was also involved." "Legolas and Gimli weren't kind?" Eldarion wore an expression of disbelief. "Nay, they were not," Elladan said, crawling to the edge of the roof so that he had a view of the street below. The Rohirrim were now marching by, but fortunately, they seemed unaware that the subject of their anger was less than a stone's throw away. "You're lying," Eldarion declared. Elladan frowned at the accusation but did not look away from the street. "And what cause have you to say that?" "Because you said Legolas and Gimli weren't kind, but that's wrong. Gimli is always kind." The omission of Ithilien's elven lord caught Elladan's interest, and he glanced back at his nephew. "And what of Legolas?" Eldarion folded his arms across his chest and assumed a look of supreme indignation. "He won't let me touch his bow." Elladan hastily turned back toward the streets and transformed his laugh into a cough. "Ah. Yes, well, I understand how that could be seen as terribly unkind. My condolences. But now I am curious: What of Gimli's axe? Does he allow you to play with it?" Elladan could sense Eldarion's scowl deepening. "He says he would if mother and father would let me. And the nurses, too. But they won't." "I see. Therefore, it is not Gimli's fault that you are unable to wield the axe." Elladan shook his head, impressed in spite of himself. Gimli, of course, would never let such a young child near such a dangerous weapon, but by shifting the blame, he had earned himself a place of high favor in Eldarion's eyes. Elladan had not thought the dwarf capable of such devious maneuvering, but then, he had been spending quite a bit of time with Legolas of late… "Can I have my cheese?" "May I have my cheese," Elladan corrected absently, his eyes following the last of the Rohirrim as they departed up the street, finally clear of the crowded market place. "And yes, you may. I think we shall wait here for my brother. We have a good view, and we shall see him the moment he emerges." "It is indeed a good view, but I doubt you will linger long enough to enjoy it." Elladan froze, his eyes widening, and then he spun around, leaping to his feet and feeling for his belt knife. "Legolas!" On the side of the roof closest to the towering wall that separated the Second Circle from the Third, Thranduil's youngest son stared back at Elladan, his face unreadable but his eyes burning. "Is not this an interesting meeting?" he observed coolly. Elladan immediately stepped in front of Eldarion, determined to keep his prize. "It is," he answered, matching the other's tone. "This is also an interesting place for a meeting." "True enough," Legolas said with a slow nod. He took a casual step toward Elladan and Eldarion, the latter of whom seemed fascinated by this new development. "I am amazed that a creature of Imladris was able to venture so high without mishap." Firmly bridling his temper, Elladan did not move from his protective stance. "And I am amazed that a creature of Greenwood was able to venture so high without the coddling assistance of trees." Something flashed in Legolas's eyes, and he took another step closer. "I am reassured, at least, that Rivendell is not bereft of all its traditions. You have managed to cleverly conceal yourself in a place where all looking down from above might see. My congratulations." Elladan frowned and struggled to understand this insult and also to answer it. This inn was among the tallest buildings of the Second Circle. There was no opportunity to look down from above unless… "Did you just come from the Third Circle wall?" he demanded, surprise getting the better of him. "I did," Legolas said. Legolas arched one elegant eyebrow. "I jumped." "From the wall?" The archer shrugged. "It is a reasonable jump if one knows what one is doing." Elladan looked up at the towering wall of the Third Circle and blinked, deciding that it was a reasonable jump only if one was a Wood-elf who cared nothing for the safety of his own neck. "But enough of this," Legolas said, tearing Elladan from his thoughts and assuming a purposeful look. "Where is your brother? I must speak with you both." Wondering if this was a test of sorts and well aware of the fact that Legolas was more comfortable with heights than he was, Elladan attempt to craft a safe answer. "I fear that Elrohir is away at the moment, but he is within calling distance should need arise." Something that might have been a smirk flashed across Legolas's face, and he glanced toward the streets. "Would I be wrong in assuming that you are both avoiding the Rohirrim?" Elladan checked his temper sharply by promising himself that vengeance would be sweet, satisfying, and extensive. "You may assume whatever you wish." The smirk returned, tugging at the corners of Legolas's mouth. "Very well. To business, then, since you seem loath to call Lord Elrohir. I have come to collect Eldarion, and I would rather you give him to me than I force him from you. Are you willing to concede?" "Concede?" Elladan's anger dissolved into an outright laugh. "My dear Legolas, the morning has clearly wearied your mind. In order to concede, one must be defeated, and I am not." "I can see to that shortly if you insist upon it," Legolas replied with unnerving confidence. "Truly? If you refer to the actions you have taken upon the Pelennor, then allow me to point out that one crown-prince is of far more importance than a few brood mares," Elladan answered. "Perhaps," Legolas allowed, the smirk becoming more pronounced. "But your own dignity coupled with the respect that Minas Tirith accords Imladris may be worth more than one crown-prince." Now somewhat nervous, Elladan decided that Legolas was too sure of himself and that a prudent retreat was in order. "If you can offer naught but vague threats, then we are done here." He turned to his nephew, careful to keep one eye upon Legolas. "Climb on my back again," he instructed. "It is time for us to depart." "Stay, my lord prince," Legolas commanded when Eldarion started forward. "I have somewhat more to say to to your uncle, if you will allow it." And much to Elladan's surprise, Eldarion stopped. Apparently pleased by Legolas's sudden formality, he responded in kind and nodded gravely. "You can speak to him," he announced with every ounce of dignity that a four-year-old child could muster. "My thanks," Legolas said with a deep bow. Elladan suspected the bow was primarily to hide a growing smile than to show respect. "Lord Elladan of Imladris, a word in private?" "If you believe that I am so foolish as to—" "I ask for no more than a short discussion," Legolas interrupted, raising his hands to show his good intentions. "You have my word on my father's realm that I wish only to speak with you." Elladan frowned, but there was not much he could say in response to that. A refusal to take Legolas at his word constituted a breach of trust and an insult to his honor. Such insults were not born lightly by those of Thranduil's line, even on light-hearted days. After a quick look back at Eldarion to see that he was both out of Legolas's reach and not too close to the edge of the roof, Elladan moved forward. "And what have you to say to me?" he demanded, attempting to regain control of the situation. "I propose an exchange," Legolas whispered, his eyes straying to Eldarion for a moment. "You surrender the crown-prince to me, and I promise to forego certain actions this evening." "Certain actions?" Elladan echoed. "If seems to me that we are dealing with vague threats again. Or perhaps you refer to further activities among Rohan's horses?" "Nay, nothing so banal at that," Legolas said with a dangerous smile. "Rather, I had an idea to speak to the minstrels that will be present at the feast this evening. It occurs to me that their repertoire of songs might be enlarged." Elladan blinked in surprise. What did Gondor's minstrels have to do with anything? "The king and queen have been very helpful in supplying old lays remembered only within the House of Elrond," Legolas continued, his eyes gleaming. "But there have been some grievous omissions. I believe it is time to correct that." Now thoroughly confused, Elladan could only stare at Legolas and wonder if there was a point to all this. "Tell me if you are familiar with this song," Legolas said. "O! Where are you going with beards all a-wagging? What brings—" The shout escaped ere Elladan could stop it, so great was his horror at hearing part a song that was regarded as one of Rivendell's most closely guarded secrets. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Eldarion jump in surprise, but Legolas seemed to have expected his reaction and was now smiling serenely. "Nay, I think more is required," Legolas said. "For after all, the valley is jolly. Ha! Ha!" Attempting to restrain his anger, Elladan took a deep breath and fixed Legolas with a glare worthy of Glorfindel. "Where did you learn those words?" "Bilbo Baggins," Legolas answered. "Just ere he departed, I asked if I might have a copy of some of the songs he heard while in Rivendell. He was only too happy to share, and on the topic of this particular song, he decided to share more than what he included in his book. Truly fascinating, I must confess. Of course, many of us in Greenwood had long suspected the existence of a balancing song. Something that offset all those dour laments of the First Age and your eternal pining for the Undying Lands. But never did we think to hear of a song so inane as the one recorded by our esteemed hobbit friend." Legolas shook his head, his expression one of unfettered glee. "Really, Lord Elladan. Tra-la-la-lally?" Torn between a desire to curl into a ball and disappear and a desire to throw Legolas off the roof, Elladan settled for a burning glower and clenched fists. "If you breathe one word of this to Gondor's minstrels, I will—" "But that is the point! You can ensure that Gondor's minstrels are never subjected to such nonsense and that Rivendell's madness is kept safely contained within its own borders." Elladan stared at Legolas, bringing to bear everything he had ever learned from his father on the subject of intimidating looks. Legolas responded by calling up one of Thranduil's most infuriating expressions: smug victory. And unable to think of an alternative offer or threat, Elladan was forced to admit that the Wood-elf was right. Keeping Eldarion for the rest of the day would be enjoyable, but Rivendell's dignity came first. Thanks to Bilbo's records, a few verses of the infamous Tra-la-la-lallly song were already common knowledge among hobbits, but until now, Elladan had believed that the full scope of the song remained mercifully unknown. If Bilbo had shared the other verses with Legolas… "Take him," Elladan snapped, stepping aside and nodding to Eldarion. "My thanks for your cooperation," Legolas said, inclining his head with a smile. "Though I will miss hearing that song tonight." "See that you do." Legolas's smile grew, but he said nothing more on the subject and walked toward Eldarion, dropping down on one knee in order to speak with the prince. Disgusted with himself, with Legolas, with Bilbo Baggins, and with the world in general, Elladan fumed silently and headed for the vines. He sensed the beginnings of a large headache and felt it would be best to leave before anything else happened. It was only when he was halfway down the vines and he heard Eldarion's voice suddenly rise in a demand for his food that Elladan remembered a certain smelly chunk of cheese still hidden in his belt pouch. Deciding it should remain there, he quickly dropped the rest of the distance to the ground and hastened away. Petty, yes, but at the moment, Elladan would take what he could get. It did not take Pippin long to discover that Meriadoc Brandybuck was much heavier than he looked. Even with Imrahil's assistance, Pippin was exhausted by the time they dragged the inebriated hobbit into his quarters. He was ready for a nap himself, and he probably would have curled up right there on the floor had it not been for a sudden rumbling outburst from his stomach. "Are you concealing a small dragon, Master Took?" Imrahil asked, turning down the blankets on Merry's bed. Pippin scowled and shot a glare at Merry, who was propped against one wall and blissfully unaware of his surroundings. "No thanks to him, I haven't had anything to eat since breakfast." "Then it sounds as though lunch is in order. It is certainly time for it, and I feel the need for nourishment myself. Help me put your friend to bed, and once he is settled, we shall seek out the butteries in the Tower. Afterwards we can search for Legolas and Gimli. Once we are assured of their whereabouts, we should probably go together to search for Elladan and Elrohir. It may be difficult to find them, even if they are still in the Second Circle." "I suppose that will have to do," Pippin sighed, bending down and pulling Merry's left arm over his shoulder. "But I was looking forward to the feast down on the Pelennor. I had some choice words to say to Strider about Arwen. If we hurry and find Legolas and Gimli, do you think we can still catch them on the fields?" Imrahil had been taking Merry's other arm, but he stopped at this and flashed a sharp look in Pippin's direction. "You mean to say that you do not know?" "Know what?" There was a slight pause, barely noticeable, and then Imrahil shook his head. "Naught. I am merely surprised that word of this has not spread. The citizens of Minas Tirith are not usually so discreet." He gripped Merry beneath his right arm and pulled the hobbit to his feet. "Discreet about what?" Pippin asked, forgetting his exhaustion in the face of his curiosity. "There was an accident upon the Pelennor this morning," Imrahil answered, moving Merry toward the bed with Pippin's assistance. "I will not tire you with the details, but the king and queen are currently in the Houses of Healing tending to one of the accident's victims." "Do I know this victim?" "You have met before. Here, lay him against the bed and we shall lift his legs." Pippin obediently let Merry's upper body flop forward onto the bed. "So where have I met the victim?" he asked, not about to let Imrahil divert the conversation. "And what kind of accident was it?" "It involved…horses," Imrahil said, gasping slightly as they maneuvered Merry the rest of the way onto the bed. His face creased with pain, and one hand went to his side. "Horses?" Pippin blinked, thinking back over what he had heard just ere he left the Pelennor with Merry. "Did something happen during the race between you and Eomer? Is Eomer hurt? And are you hurt, too?" "You are perceptive, Master Took," Imrahil murmured, straightening and pulling the blankets up over Merry. "As for your questions, yes. Something did happen during the horse race, and Eomer was injured. Thanks to his actions, though, I am only bruised." Pippin gave him a rather skeptical look. "How badly was Eomer hurt? And how certain are you that you're all right?" "I am reasonably certain of my own health. As for the king of Rohan…he suffered a blow to the head. We are convinced that he will recover in time, but for the moment, he is in need of rest." Imrahil sounded confident and Pippin wanted to believe him, but experience had taught him that just because someone sounded confident didn't mean they were telling the whole story. Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli, in particular, were quite good at claiming one thing when the opposite was true. Sam thought that it had something to do with being a leader over a large group of suspicious-minded people, and if he was right, then Imrahil was probably equally skilled at deception. Which meant that Pippin would have to press harder for answers. "So how much rest does Eomer need?" he asked. "As much as King Elessar deems necessary." "And how much is that? How severe was the blow to his head? Did he fall and hit it on something? Or did something fall and hit him?" Imrahil's face took on a bemused expression. "A little of both, I believe. Are all hobbits so inquisitive?" "Both?" Pippin echoed, ignoring the last part. He started to ask more, but his stomach suddenly let out another loud growl. "Perhaps we would be better served discussing this over lunch," Imrahil observed. With a grimace, Pippin nodded. "Probably. I feel as though I could—" Pippin flinched violently and spun around. "Merry? You're supposed to be asleep!" "Am I?" Merry blinked and rolled over, tangling himself in his blankets. "Have I been awake long? Wha's the time?" "It is time for you to sleep again," Imrahil said. "You have already been awake far too long." "Can't tell what time it is!" Merry said crossly. "Everything keeps changing." "That's what happens when you drink Mirkwood wine, you ninny," Pippin scolded. "Now close your eyes and—" "The wine's made in Greenwood," Merry corrected. "The wine is aged. It was made when Greenwood was still Mirkwood," Pippin answered, wondering why he was bothering to argue with a drunk. "But it's still p'lite to call it Greenwood." "Of course it is," Imrahil said. "And we shall certainly do that in the future. Now close your eyes and go to sleep. We will be returning later to see how you fare." Merry's eyes had already begun drifting shut, but he opened them wide at this news and hiccuped. "You're leaving?" "Just for a little while," Pippin assured him. "I promise that I'll be back as soon as I can." "No!" Merry said, shaking his head violently. "Have to watch on you. S'pposed to keep you out of trouble." Pippin stared at him. "And who will keep you out of trouble? Honestly, Merry, you can barely walk! And I don't need a minder. I'm a grown hobbit with a wife and a—" "Always same ol' Pippin," Merry interrupted, somehow managing to roll to the edge of the bed. He peered over the side and squinted at the floor. "Why's it still moving?" "Perhaps we should slip away now," Imrahil murmured, moving towards the doorway. "No!" Merry cried, promptly falling out of the bed. Stunned, Pippin could only watch helplessly as Merry tried to sit up, fell over, and then began patting the floor soothingly. "S'alright," he whispered. "You can hold still now." "Or perhaps I should slip away while you remain here," Imrahil said. Pippin bit his lip and stared at the other hobbit. "But Legolas and Gimli—" "Are better left to others." "But I need their help to…" Pippin trailed off and decided that telling Imrahil he needed to do something horrid to Arwen was probably not a wise decision. "I need to talk to them. And I need food and—" "It will be easy enough for me to send food to you," Imrahil answered, his tone growing firm. "But I would rather not have Mastery Meriadoc wandering about without supervision. He has already attempted to start a fire in the storerooms. Who knows what he shall attempt next?" Recognizing defeat, Pippin nodded reluctantly as his stomach let out a petulant growl. "I'll look forward to whatever you send, then," he sighed. "And if you don't mind, could you send something for Merry, too? He may not want food now, but he will once he properly wakes up." "A wise idea, Master Took." Imrahil turned to leave but then paused for a moment. "You will be able to handle him?" "Yes, we'll be fine," Pippin said. "Usually the situation is reversed, but I've had to help him out of a few taverns back in the Shire." "Very well, then. I will send a guard around with a plate presently." Pippin nodded and bowed slightly as Imrahil left the room. Then he turned to Merry, who was still patting the floor solicitously. "Well, you've now decreased our chances of getting into the pantries downstairs. I hope you're proud of yourself." "It's calming down," Merry answered. "Don't you think so?" "I…suppose," Pippin said slowly. "I think so," Merry said, laying his cheek on the ground. Pippin shook his head and decided that all discussions could wait until Merry was more coherent. "Yes, well, do you think you can get back into bed now?" Merry looked as though this was the most ridiculous idea he'd heard all day. "Bed? But it isn't night! The time's all funny, but the sun's still up." "Yes, but you need to take a little nap," Pippin said. "I know the floor would appreciate it." Merry giggled. "All right. But if it acts up, you might try singing to it. I think that would help. It likes Imra'il, and he sings." Not knowing how to respond to that, Pippin said nothing and helped Merry to his feet, bracing him when the other hobbit swayed dangerously. With a bit of coaxing, he was able to push Merry back into bed and straighten out the blankets. "Now," he said, "go to sleep. You'll feel much better when you wake up." "I'm 'wake now." Pippin bit back a groan. If Merry insisted on babbling throughout the duration of his inebriation, it was going to be a very long afternoon. Pippin had once been forced to listen to several hours of drunken prattle during an evening's ride home from the Golden Perch, and though amusing at first, it had become tiresome quickly. "You might be awake now," he reasoned, "but perhaps you shouldn't stay awake. Don't you think you'll have nice dreams if you sleep?" Merry considered this for a while, and Pippin held his breath as the silence began to stretch into minutes. "Would you tell me a riddle?" Pippin almost choked. "Excuse me?" "A riddle. You were going to earlier, but I ran away." Shaking his head, Pippin tried to adopt a soft and soothing tone. "If you go to sleep, I'll tell you all the riddles you want when you wake." Minutes ticked away again in silence, and Pippin held his breath once more. He sighed. "Yes, Merry?" "What if I tell you a riddle?" "I think you ought to be sleeping." "No, this is a good riddle. I think you told it to me b'fore, but maybe you'd like to hear it again. Do y'know how many Bolgers it takes to light a torch?" "No, I'm afraid that I don't. And given your current condition, you probably don't know either." "None!" Merry announced triumphantly with a wide grin plastered across his face. "They don't care 'bout the torch. They just need the food." "Well, this particular hobbit doesn't need any food whatsoever. He needs sleep!" Pippin said firmly. "But I'm not tired!" Merry protested, lifting his head and staring at Pippin with wide eyes. "Yes, you are. You are very tired. You just don't know it yet. But for my sake, I hope you figure it out soon." Walking briskly before an armed contingent of Rohirrim, Lord Elfhelm of Rohan threw open both doors to the Houses of Healing with a thunderous crash. Years of laboring against Wormtongue's lies and deceptions had taught Elfhelm the value of a good entrance, and a quick glance around at the startled healers told him that his entrance had been more than adequate. Elfhelm gave the entry chamber a swift but thorough glance, taking in how many shocked healers stood between him and the hallways most likely to contain the king. His first reaction was one of surprise, for he had expected to find Elfwine arguing with the healers about seeing his father. Yet the prince was nowhere to be seen. Was it possible that some healers held sympathy for the young heir of Rohan and had surrendered to his wishes? Studying the bewildered but stern faces before him, Elfhelm decided this to be highly improbable. The more likely scenario was that Elfwine had sneaked in another way, and Elfhelm nodded in silent approval. The boy showed promise. But whatever the reasons behind Elfwine's absence, it was clear to Elfhelm that he and his men would not readily be admitted entrance. Already the expressions of surprise were turning to anger, and the advantage gained by an impressive entrance would soon be lost. Moving quickly, Elfhelm stormed across the threshold with enough speed to make his cloak billow behind him. "I am here on business for my king," he announced, coming to a stop in the middle of the chamber. Seizing one edge of his cloak, he pulled it back around him with an authoritative snap and gave the healers an imperious look, daring them to challenge his presence. "It would expedite matters if one of you revealed the way to his rooms," he continued. "However, should you be otherwise occupied, I will take what measures I must in order to find him myself." His words were met with incredulous stares, and deciding that he would need to provoke a reaction, Elfhelm signaled the other Rohirrim forward. The results were immediate. Galvanized by the presence of armed warriors in a healing ward, the attendants threw off their shock and moved to block the entrances to the hallways. "Who are you to issues orders in this House?" one of the older healers demanded, walking forward until he stood but a few feet away from the intruder. "Lord Elfhelm of Rohan, and I mean to speak with my liege lord immediately," Elfhelm answered coolly. "Now am I to be given an escort to his rooms, or shall my men forcibly conduct a search?" Elfhelm could see a multitude of arguments marshalling in the healer's eyes, and he closed the remaining distance between himself and the man, releasing his cloak so that it could billow outward again. Appearances could sometimes be far more persuasive than logical reasoning. "My lord," the healer stammered, and Elfhelm had to fight back a snicker. It would not due to ruin his ominous visage with an ill-timed laugh. "I am sure that your errand as urgent, but I cannot disturb the rest of any patient unless I am satisfied that there is sufficient cause." "You doubt the word of a lord of Rohan?" Elfhelm hoped that the growing tightness in his jaw would be interpreted as anger rather than his desperate attempts to hold back a grin. "Certainly not, my lord!" the healer exclaimed. "But if you would take into consideration the needs of—" "My only consideration at the moment is the safety of my king and the welfare of his kingdom. And that should be more than sufficient for you." For emphasis, Elfhelm let one hand stray to the ceremonial knife hanging from his belt. Another warrior would have immediately recognized the implied threat, but the healer simply stared at Elfhelm, oblivious to the fact that he could be gutted within seconds. With some exasperation, Elfhelm repeated the action and exaggerated his movements, allowing the dagger's jeweled sheath to flash in the sunlight that streamed down from high, arching windows. This time his efforts met with success, and the healer stepped back, his eyes widening. "The guards—" "Will not wish to provoke an incident between Gondor and Rohan," Elfhelm interrupted smoothly. He studied the man just long enough to create an uncomfortable silence, and then he spoke again, his voice low and deep. "All I ask is that you take me to my king. My men will stay here if it will ease your mind, but I must be allowed to pass. Surely you will grant me that much." Another uncomfortable silence ensued, but Elfhelm made no effort to break it this time. He kept his eyes upon the healer, intense but not quite challenging. And after a bit of restless shifting on the part of the other attendants as well as the waiting Rohirrim, the older healer nodded slowly. "Your men will wait here, my lord?" "If that is your wish, I will so order it." "Please do, and then follow me. I will take you to your king." And they say the Rohirrim are unskilled as negotiators, Elfhelm thought wryly as he gave the healer a gracious smile and a quick bow before turning to his men. Snapping off a few commands in Rohirric, he watched as his men drew together before the entrance, somewhat offended at being kept from their king but obedient nonetheless. Satisfied, Elfhelm turned back to the healer and indicated that he was ready to proceed. They traveled down one of the wider hallways, and as they walked, Elfhelm fought off the urge to throw back his head and shout in triumph. He had been practically helpless all morning. Helpless to aid his king, helpless to control Shade, and helpless to corral the elven stallions. But now he was acting. He had overcome the healer's reservations. He had gained entry where other Rohirrim had failed. He was on his way to see his king, and he would learn exactly why Eomer was confined to the Houses of Healing! These victories more than made up for the morning's frustration, and it was all he could do to keep from proclaiming his excitement to the world. When the healer finally stopped and knocked quietly on a door, Elfhelm could contain himself no longer and pushed the door open the moment he heard a voice call from inside. His euphoria died almost instantly. A wave of silent tension hit him with enough strength to make him gasp. Reeling with shock and struggling to right his churning feelings, Elfhelm shook his head and stopped on the threshold. Triggered by the animosity that seemed to fill the chamber, battlefield instincts flared to life, and Elfhelm's hand fell to his knife as he cast his eyes about the room, searching for the source of the tension. His eyes came to rest upon Eomer, who lay still and listless upon a healing bed. "Lord Elfhelm. It is good to see you again." Elfhelm blinked and turned to find the queen of Gondor at his side. Bowing more out of reflex than anything else, he moved his attention back to Eomer and took one step forward. "We…we received word that—" "He is sleeping at the moment," another voice said, and Elfhelm looked over at Lothíriel, who hovered near the bed alongside a very haggard-looking Eowyn. "Have no fear. He is merely in need of rest." Deciding that this statement was very much at odds with the amount of tension in the room, Elfhelm turned around to confront the healer who had accompanied him. "And your opinion?" "I…do not know much of his condition," the healer said. "Lord Elfhelm, you have my word that Eomer is in no immediate danger," Eowyn said, rising from her chair. "He requires time and rest. And unless I am very much mistaken, I gave orders that this rest was not to be disturbed," she added with a stern glare for the healer. "My lady, he was most insistent and—" "Oh, I am certain that he was," Eowyn interrupted, turning her glare upon Elfhelm. For his part, Elfhelm was doing some rapid thinking. Eowyn never gave her word lightly, and if she insisted that the king was in no immediate danger, then he was in no immediate danger. But this did not explain the tension, and Elfhelm was beginning to wonder if he had been mistaken about the cause. He could not help but notice that Arwen was staying at least an arm's length away from Lothíriel at all times, and Lothíriel seemed to avoiding eye contact with Arwen. Eowyn was pointedly ignoring both of them, and on the subject of ignored persons, Elfhelm now realized that Elfwine was missing, a rather suspicious absence considering how anxious the boy had been to see his father. Yes, something was happening here that had nothing to do with Eomer's injury, but Elfhelm did not have time to decipher what that something was. At the moment, he needed to deal with Eowyn, who looked as though she had just reached the end of her tether. "My ladies," Elfhelm said with a deep—and hopefully appeasing—bow. "Please accept my humblest apologies if I have caused harm. But on behalf of the Rohirrim, I wished only to assure myself that our king was yet whole so that I might comfort those still anxious for news." Elfhelm paused, debating about what to say next, and then decided to forge ahead. He had an opening. He would take it. "I am certain that the prince can vouch for my intentions, for he knew of my coming. Where is Lord Elfwine?" Three blank stares met his eyes. Feeling as though he had just stepped into a stable that had not been properly cleaned for weeks, Elfhelm swallowed and rephrased the question. "Is not the prince here?" Eowyn frowned, Arwen pursed her lips, and Lothíriel's eyes hardened. "Did you expect him to be here?" In the hallway, the healer said something about needing to see to other patients and hurried away. Pushing aside the urge to follow him, Elfhelm tried to think of a good answer to Lothíriel's question, but his mind drew a confounding blank. "I sent Elfwine ahead of my men, my lady," he eventually said. "He should have arrived ere we did." "Did he know that his father was here and not in the Citadel?" Arwen asked. "Yes, my lady, he did," Elfhelm said, his mind racing. "Then you mean to tell me that my son is lost in Minas Tirith?" Lothíriel did not lose her temper often. As Imrahil's daughter, she was confident almost to a fault, and this confidence took the form of a maddening serenity in times of crisis. She could be stern and commanding if needed and she had raised her voice upon occasion, but until now, she had never been provoked into shouting. When this shouting was coupled with flashing eyes the color of storm clouds and a glare cold enough to freeze the Anduin, the end result was quite intimidating, and Elfhelm found himself on the verge of a tactical retreat. "Peace," Eowyn said, stepping in to save her former conspirator. "Peace, it could be that Elfwine merely stopped to find something to eat. He was up quite early this morning, and I doubt he has had aught in the way of food since breakfast." Lothíriel turned a murderous look upon Eowyn. Elfhelm might have pitied her had he not been so relieved at escaping the look himself. "Is that possible?" Arwen asked. "Is there somewhere that Prince Elfwine could go where your men would not see?" "Perhaps," Elfhelm said slowly. He was now very certain that the tension in the room had little to do with Eomer and everything to do with the three women standing before him. "The streets were quite busy, my lady." "Or perhaps something else has happened," Lothíriel snapped, transferring her glare to Arwen, who took a discreet step backwards. "There is a simple way to end this," Eowyn said, pitching her voice to carry over the intensity of Lothíriel's glare. "We need only send forth a team to look for Elfwine." "An excellent idea," Elfhelm said quickly, sensing a chance for escape. He still knew very little about his king's condition, but his thirst for knowledge and assurance had waned in the face of a problem that he was certain he did not wish to investigate. Beyond that, the search for Elfwine could prove just as useful to the welfare of Rohan. "I will gather my men and—" "You will remain here," Eowyn interrupted sharply, her eyes flashing with something that could not be readily identified. "I will not have you upon the streets with your mind in an uproar over all the incidents down on the Pelennor." Elfhelm blinked. "Lady Eowyn, I assure you that my mind is clear." "So clear that you sent a gelding iron to the Houses of Healing?" Out of the corner of his eye, Elfhelm saw both Arwen and Lothíriel withdrawing from the conversation. He wished that he could do the same. "It was intended as a message," he said weakly. "In the days of Wormtongue, Eomer and I devised a means of—" "I have no wish to hear it," Eowyn said, interrupting once again. She moved to a table near Eomer's bed and picked up the gelding iron. "You may personally deliver this to your king when he wakes. I will take the Rohirrim and search for Elfwine." Elfhelm frowned and looked at the brand in Eowyn's hands. "Surely your healing talents would be of better use here. It would be a simple thing for me to—" "If I do not leave now, I may find cause to use this," Eowyn snapped, shoving the gelding iron into Elfhelm's hands. Elfhelm flushed and hastily dropped his eyes, wondering if the stifled laugh from Arwen's direction was his imagination. "Lady Eowyn, if you are intent upon going, I cannot stop you. But I do not believe it is within your rights to command my actions." There was a hiss of anger, and then Eowyn seized Elfhelm by the arm and pulled him into the hallway. "One of us must remain here," she said, lowering her voice. "And since I am more familiar with Minas Tirith than you, it stands to reason that I should look for Elfwine." Elfhelm's eyes narrowed. "Your reasoning is sound with but one exception: why must one of us remain here?" Eowyn said nothing for a long moment, studying Elfhelm intently, and then she sighed, seeming to come to a decision of sorts. "What I say now must not be repeated. I do not entrust you with this information lightly. Eomer is in good health given the circumstances, but he suffered a serious blow to his head upon the Pelennor. He does not remember who he is." "He does not remember?" Elfhelm echoed blankly. "What do you—" "Just what I said. He has no memory of Rohan, of Gondor, of himself, or of anything else. And when he woke earlier…" She paused and glanced back into the bed chambers where Lothíriel had returned to Eomer's side and Arwen lingered near an open window. "When he woke earlier," she continued, dropping her voice even more, "he decided to declare his love for the queen of Gondor. Lothíriel has taken exception to this, as well she might, but Queen Arwen is more amused than anything else. And because of this, it was decided that a third person be present to act as a mediator. I trust I can rely upon you in this matter?" Elfhelm stared at her for a long moment, taking in everything she had told him and making a fairly good guess at some of the things that were being left out. "The king's sleep is not natural, is it?" Never one to back away from a challenge, Eowyn met his gaze evenly and nodded. "You are correct. King Elessar has ensured that Eomer will sleep for some time." "And where is King Elessar? Surely he has taken more than a passing interest in this!" "At the moment, he is mixing a draught that might help. He will not be back for a while." "And he left you here as the mediator." "A task I am now delegating to you," Eowyn said, and judging from the gleam in her eyes, she was as anxious to escape as Elfhelm was. "So you would countermand the orders of your king?" Eowyn's eyes flashed. "I would go where I am most needed while you will remain here and suffer the consequences for sending Thendril to the Houses of Healing with a gelding iron!" Elfhelm winced, glanced down at the brand in his hands, and then decided to make one last effort. "But what of your brother? Are you prepared to leave him in another's hands?" There was a brief moment of hesitation in Eowyn's eyes, and Elfhelm thought he might have won. But then she looked back into the room at Lothíriel and Arwen, and the hesitation vanished. "If Faramir were here, I would not leave," she said quietly. "But he is gone, and I do not trust my temper. Were I to stay, I would do more harm than good." She flashed a quick smile at Elfhelm. "You are not the only one to be threatened by the gelding iron." "I am…comforted," Elfhelm said slowly. "Good," Eowyn said, her smile growing. "Then are we agreed?" Elfhelm sighed and nodded. "Were it anyone else, I would refuse. Béma lend you speed." "Thank you, Elfhelm," she said, already moving away. "If Eomer wakes, send for Elessar or one of the healers. And if you can convince Arwen to leave the room, I think Lothíriel will become better company." "I will certainly make the attempt." Eowyn's smile turned sympathetic, but she said nothing else and hurried down the hallway. Left with two angry queens and an unconscious king, Elfhelm decided he would have been better off staying on the Pelennor. Author's Notes: Gimli's claim that he is a "dwarf of many journeys" comes from a debate he had with Legolas and Aragorn. You can find it in the chapter "The Riders of Rohan" in the Two Towers, page 33 of the Ballantine paperback 50th anniversary edition. The bits of song that Legolas uses to blackmail Elladan are part of a rather strange song that the elves of Rivendell use to taunt Thorin's company in the chapter "A Short Rest" in The Hobbit, page 48 of the Ballantine paperback 50th anniversary edition.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1155182/11/New-Year-s-Eve	<urn:uuid:ff4b512d-3833-4da6-8047-70ad65de57fa>	en	0.988162	0.064927
Reality 2 Vegas…was there anyplace like it? The lights, the energy, the women. The women. The drop dead, gorgeous women. And when you're on leave and in the midst of that energy, keeping company with one of those beautiful women, you could almost forget how you swallowed your pride and asked that cold son of a bitch who shared your name to salvage what was left of your career. Yeah…almost. McMurdo and exile versus Nellis and a chance at redemption. The Air Force wasn't big on disobeying orders, no matter what your reasons. Flying Pave Hawks at Nellis was an unbelievable opportunity, and if I'd had to sell a big fat slice of my soul for it, well, a deal's a deal. Only I wasn't in Nellis now. I'd been sent to Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado, ordered to report to General O'Neill, and that was the sum total of my knowledge. And as with all military operations, big and small, there was a fuck up. My clearance hadn't come through by the time I arrived, and apparently you needed a shitload of clearance just to drive by the damn place and check out the curb appeal. Actually passing through the gate and getting a place to sleep was out of the question. But, hey, if I got to stay in a semi-nice hotel with room service and a mini bar on the Air Force's dime, who was I to bitch? There was snow on the ground here and a ball-freezing chill in the air. Oddly enough it didn't make me miss Nevada. I liked the snow and the quiet that came with it. And not for the first time I thought Antarctica and exile might not have been the worse thing that could've happened to me. But you make your bed—you sure as hell do. I checked into my room--no mini bar, cheap bastards—and called about my clearance. I was told it would run through by morning and make myself at home. I sprawled on the bed, watched a little TV, then decided to get a beer at the bar before sacking out. It was a nice bar, all polished wood and soft lights, and pretty much empty. Not one Vegas style woman to be seen anywhere. Philosophically, I ordered my beer and asked the guy next to me, "Hey, buddy, could you pass the peanuts?" Funny, how a little craving for salt will come back to bite you in the ass. The guy turned to look at me, if you can call a split second glance by disdainful blue eyes a look. "Not interested," he said brusquely. "And, quite frankly, a little perturbed they're starting out with you as first string. Is it the shirt?" He frowned and pulled at the material with thumb and forefinger. "It's not pink, you know. It was red, a nice Canadian patriotic red, but there was a slight laundry mishap…just so you're aware." He took a swallow of his own beer, snapped his fingers in emphasis and repeated, "Unavoidable bleach related incident. Not pink." I blinked. Looked at him, then the peanuts, and then back again. "Let's try this again. You're Canadian. Maybe there's a cultural chasm regarding peanuts I'm totally unaware of. I just want the peanuts, okay? So pass them down. And, yeah, sorry to break the news…your shirt is pink." This time he really looked at me…with impatience, annoyance, and more than a little weariness. "I'm certain you're very good at this ordinarily, although peanuts, really, that could use some work. And the hair, that's definitely an acquired taste, but it's been a long trip and I'm dead on my feet and simply not interested in selling out my country, this country, any country. Although if you were really serious, you would start with a blond…with breasts. The breasts are important. A brain would be nice too, but I suppose that might be asking a bit much on short notice." This time I got up, walked around him, got the peanuts and brought them back to my stool. I popped a few in my mouth, chewed, and turned my back on Mr. Pink Shirt. Futilely, as it turned out. "Really, you shouldn't take this personally. You'll never last in the business if you do." It was said with the most damn peculiar mix of sympathy, arrogance, and exasperation. Worse yet, I heard the son of a bitch get up and move over to sit on the stool right next to me. Reluctantly…very reluctantly, I turned enough to keep him in sight. Best to keep the loonies in view. "Seduction and spying is a somewhat difficult field I'm guessing," he went on condescendingly, words beginning to slur around the edges. "Rejection must be rampant. I mean, okay, you're not my type, but you're bound to be someone's type." Gee, that was nice to know. He waved his hand at the bartender for another beer and was beginning to think maybe that he'd been waving that hand pretty frequently. "Seriously, about this whole shirt issue. I was in Budapest once at a conference and they sent me a blonde, a redhead, and a brunette and when that didn't work then they sent in the guy. So, I'm a bit…just a tiny bit, mind you, worried here. Is it something besides the shirt? Am I less buff and manly than I once was?" He considered as he took another pull of the beer. "Or maybe I'm too buff. Well dressed, bulging muscles, a certain je ne sais quois." He shook his head. "That's it, isn't it? I guess I have no one to blame but myself." I looked him up and down. Rumpled shirt, stocky body with a slight softness at the middle, frazzled fine brown hair, a more-than-aggressive chin and a crooked non-stop mouth. "Yeah, buddy," I drawled, "that's exactly what it is. Us spies will know better next time. Scout's honor." That was my luck, wasn't it? To sit down beside some guy who was obviously stuck in some James Bond style fantasy—either drunk off his ass or crazy as a bed bug. He scowled instantly. "You must be new, because, trust me, I'm totally worth all this. I'm Dr. Rodney McKay—the Dr. Rodney McKay…Einstein's spiritual lovechild. What I don't know about astrophysics…what am I saying? There is nothing I don't know about astrophysics. I'm so goddamn brilliant I'm surprised they aren't parachuting naked blondes onto my balcony with bags of cash in each hand. In fact…." Face first onto the bar. I gave a sigh of sheer appreciation for the golden silence before the annoying finger of civic duty began to poke me in the ribs. "How many did he have?" I asked the bartender as a small pool of saliva began to form around the slackly snoring mouth. "Three," the bartender grinned. "Three?" I said nonplussed. "No one's that much of a lightweight." "Well, two and a half really." He dabbed at the drool with his bar rag. "He said he'd had a long trip. Hadn't slept in a while." Shrugging, he added, "Hell, maybe he's narcoleptic. Either way, have fun getting him back to his room." "What?" I demanded. "Oh no. I don't know the guy from Adam. No way I'm hauling his ass upstairs." "You talked to him last. He's your problem now." My answer to that was bull-fucking-shit. And that was still my answer when they closed up the bar and I was dragging Dr. Pinkenstein to the elevator. He participated some, legs moving stiffly…enough to let me think he might just be exhausted, but I wasn't really curious enough to try to ask him. He mumbled nonsensically once or twice before I finally got him to the room embossed on the keycard in his pocket. I propped him up, opened the door, dragged him in and dumped him on the bed. His eyes popped open then for a brief second, widened, then closed in resignation. "Rip my clothes off if you want. I won't tell you a thing." "Tell you what. You leave them on and I promise to tell you anything you want to know," I snorted as I dumped the keycard on the nightstand. "It's true what they say. No good deed goes unpunished," I muttered under my breath and then left Dr. Rodney McKay…the Dr. Rodney McKay…snoring on the bed and fully clothed in his pink shirt. I had nightmares all night about that damn pink shirt. The next morning I was at Cheyenne Mountain. General O'Neill wasn't ready for me yet, so I wandered the floors I had access to, which weren't many. After seeing what looked like a big black guy wearing sparkly gold eye shadow, I decided the brain was shutting down from lack of nutrition and I headed for the cafeteria. Picking up a tray, I got in line and frowned as I saw someone take the last cherry jello. "Hey," I said, "you mind if I take that? I can't eat the orange." Any further words died in my mouth as the guy turned to face me. Holy fuck. Dr. Pinkenstein. x x x x x She sure the hell looked like Miro…Miso? No, that wasn't right, either. Well, whatever her name, the Japanese woman currently sitting in the SGC infirmary was a dead ringer for the one with the same name…whatever that might be… that was currently working at the Antarctic outpost. The one I had left the day before after spending two days and sleepless nights trying to get that damn chair functioning. After Carson chickened out for the third time, I had called in Mito..damn, that wasn't right either… to help, only to receive word that I was to report to the SGC immediately. One quick trip on the Prometheus had brought me half way around the world to be beamed into Cheyenne Mountain and after a quick briefing by O'Neill, led to the infirmary where I had promptly proclaimed with a yawn, "Yeah, that looks like her. Now, where's my hotel room?" Normally, I would have been fascinated by the idea of interdimensional time travel, but at that moment, all I wanted to do was raid the mini bar and crash until morning when I could process the information with more than bleary eyes and a fuzzy head. Of course, there hadn't been a mini bar…cheap bastards…so I had headed down to the full-sized variety only to be accosted yet again by an undercover angel, this one not a midnight fantasy. I mean, he was attractive enough, for a guy. If I was interested in that sort of thing, which I wasn't. And although I was pretty sure he had been in my room (he had obviously slipped something in my beer to knock me out when he was reaching for the peanuts) I was also pretty damn sure he hadn't done anything to me seeing as I was fully dressed, zipped, and unviolated when I woke up. Either that or he was wholly unmemorable and I had trouble believing that. Not that I was thinking about how memorable he would have been, because I wasn't. Nor had I been thinking about him that morning in the shower. He just kept popping up…annoyingly so…when I was trying to remember the blonde I had turned down on that last trip to Zurich. In fact, when the guy behind me in line at the cafeteria asked for my jello, I had thought for a split second it was him again, before deciding whatever drug he had slipped me the night before was still playing fast and loose with my senses. But when his eyes rolled and he shook his head with a disbelieving, "You have got to be fucking kidding me," my own eyes widened in recognition. "What the hell are you doing here?" I hissed. "How did you get past security?" "I didn't 'get past' security, I was ordered here by General O'Neill." Taking in the uniform I furrowed my brow. "You're Air Force? Do they have any idea that you do what you do…I mean, what you were doing in that bar?" Another frustrated shake of his head and he walked over to a table with his tray. I followed after him as I realized what he must have been doing. "Oh, my God, you're a plant! An undercover agent looking for potentially loose-lipped members of the SGC. Aren't you?" "Look, McKay, was it? I have no idea what an SGC even is, much less how loose their lips might be." I leaned in across the table, eyes darting conspiratorially to make sure no one was listening in. "Then why were you hitting on me last night?" "As much as 'passing the peanuts' might apply to certain…anatomical short fallings on your part, that was not what I intended when I asked for them. It was purely a desire for salty snacks…once again, not yours…on my part that led to the request. Nothing, and I cannot stress this enough, nothing more." "I'm not gay," I blurted defensively. When eyebrows rose at my assertion I tried to clarify. "I mean, I didn't imagine you coming on to me out of any sort of underlying desire. So, obviously you were coming on to me." His grimace spoke volumes. "Yeah, all right, normally, I might be somewhat flattered by the fact that you obviously have a subconscious attraction to me. But if you hadn't notice, I'm an officer in the United States Air Force, in uniform and about to enjoy a military meal in a military chow hall. So I'd appreciate it if you would keep the accusations of flirting with a member of the same sex to yourself." Nodding perceptively I lowered my voice further. "Oh, right. I understand. Don't ask, don't tell. Got it." "No, apparently, you don't understand. You were a little intoxicated last night, so I can appreciate your confusion…" With a condescending shake of my head, I cut him off. Who did he think he was fooling? And here he was talking to me, the Rodney McKay, as if I were a slow preschooler trying to glue crayons up my nose. "I'm not drunk now and you're still hitting on me." "How am I hitting on you?" He practically spit the words across the table. "You're sitting with me aren't you?" "You sat down with me!" Now it was my turn to explain things in a manner his simpleton brain could comprehend. "Yes, because you invited me to." "Hey, buddy," I mimicked, "can I have that jello?" With a snort, I took a bite of the pot roast on my plate. "Might as well have invited me up to your dorm room to see your record collection." "I asked for the red jello because I have a citrus allergy and can't eat the orange." Nearly choking on the piece of meat I was chewing, I regarded the Air Force major across from me. "Are you serious?" When he nodded in the affirmative, I shook my own head. "You have food allergies?" "Yes, lots of people have food allergies." "Yeah, sure, scrawny little kids who live in bubbles maybe. Those that Darwin would consider a weak link in the evolutionary food chain." "I'm sorry if my less-than-superior genetic makeup offends your manly, pink-shirt wearing, latent-homosexual sensibilities." "I am not gay!" "So you've said." He took a bite of his potatoes with a patronizing shrug. "Repeatedly." Grasping my fork in a death grip, I challenged, "And who the hell ever heard of being allergic to citrus?" I looked him up and down, taking in the thin frame. "Although the resultant scurvy could account for the malnourished skeletal look you have going there." "I'm a delicate creature, McKay. I guess I'm just lucky you're such a beer-swilling brute that you passed out after a whole twenty ounces of Coors Light else you might have eaten me alive." Now it was his turn to give me the once over. "Along with anything else that wasn't bolted down." Glaring, I took the parfait glass of red gelatin and pointedly moved it out of his reach. "Guess that means there's no chance of me sharing dessert with you, then, is there?" Instead of being angry or hurt or irritated, he only seemed amused. And that was something I wasn't used to. No tears, no snarling back, no storming off in a huff threatening to send me to darkest Russia as punishment, just the slightest quirk of lips and a hedging, "We'll see." And as much as I wanted to wipe that smirk off his face, I couldn't help but think I could get used to this guy. I was saved from having to decide which I was going to do at the moment by Samantha Carter walking in and scanning the cafeteria. Leaning forward I demanded quickly, "See the blonde that just walked in? Has she spotted me yet?" Hazel eyes narrowed warily. And who knew hazel could be such an expressive color? "Yeah, she's walking over this way." "Is my collar straight?" Shrugging my neck to shift my shirt, I didn't wait for an answer. "What does she look like? Happy? Excited? Aroused? Pissed?" "Constipated." What? At my confused face he elaborated. "Somewhere between pained and resigned to her fate." Before I could ask if I had food in my teeth, she was standing behind me. "Rodney, glad you could make it." Quickly sucking at my front teeth, I beamed up at her. "Sam, so good to see you again. I was hoping to run into you last night, even requested the room next to yours, but O'Neill told me about the infestation in the residential wing and the fumigation that was taking place." "Yeaaaah. It's been a real pain." "Must be hard having to save the galaxy without the luxury of a lab and the comforts you're used to. Of course, I do that on a daily basis now at my new assignment." "Yes, congratulations on your new position. I'm sure the penguins feel much better knowing you're there." It was really pathetic how she tried to cover her true feelings for me under all that sarcasm. But the passion was obvious in her eyes and if she could just get over her feelings of inadequacy around me, I thought we had a shot at something special between us. I mean, I never expected her to discuss the intricacies of wormhole physics while she was riding me like a Pochhammer-Chree wave anyway. Then again… Before I could completely imagine those possibilities, she stretched an arm across the table and shook hands with my lunch partner. "Major Sheppard, I'm Lt. Colonel Samantha Carter. It's nice to meet you. General O'Neill has been pulled away on other business, but he's asked me to brief you in his absence." "Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is John Sheppard?" All thoughts of what Sam could do to my 'infinite rod' disappeared as I learned that the man across from me was the one that was supposedly so vital to the Atlantis expedition. Both of them gave me bewildered looks, Sam since I had no clue who I was eating with and Sheppard because I obviously knew about him and he knew nothing about me. I studied him a little closer, looking for any sign of why someone would travel across a dimensional rift and back in time to make sure this man joined us on our mission. Physically leaning back from my scrutiny, he asked Sam, "Should I be worried that whatever it is that General O'Neill needs me to do involves him?" Sam opened her mouth as if to say something then closed it with a reassuring smile. "I should probably keep my opinion to myself. If you'll come with me I'll try to explain." And after a trip down to O'Neill's office, a quick security overview and signing of nondisclosure paperwork, Sam gave a very brief synopsis of the Stargate Program and summary of how Miko…that was her name!...had arrived a few days prior. "So, let me get this straight. This woman moved from an alternate reality into this one, then jumped back in time, then hitched a ride in a wormhole and traveled from another galaxy to get here to say I needed to go to Atlantis?" "I know it sounds outrageous," Sam consoled a very skeptical Sheppard, "but believe me, everything she's talked about doing, others have done, as well…just not all three at once." "The United States Air Force actual has time travel machines? What, a garage full of DeLoreans equipped with flux capacitors?" "The American cinema is going to rot the brains of every person on Earth, I swear." I shook my head in disgust. "No, she had a device that was built by the Ancients…they're the race of people that built the Stargates and Atlantis is what we believe to be their home city. Where is that thing, Sam?" She pulled out a box and handed it over and I opened it to reveal a smooth, flat, coin-shaped device that would fit easily in the palm of my hand. I started to pick it up to show him when he let out a worried, "No! Don't touch it!" "Why? I assure you it's perfectly safe to handle the Ancient's devices, especially if you don't have the ATA …" And I stopped in midsentence as something clicked in my head. "You can sense something about this, can't you?" He seemed reluctant to admit it and he looked between me and Sam before finally begrudging, "Yeah, I can. It feels…dangerous." Oh, dear God, he had the gene. And if he could sense it, could feel warning bells being given off from a piece of Ancient technology, then it had to be strong. Stronger than anyone else I had ever met, and I had met every person with an ATA gene that we knew about on this planet. Snapping my fingers excitedly, I ordered Sam, "Get me another device. Anything. Jackson's bound to have something squirreled away somewhere." Within minutes we had Sheppard activating equipment that had sat dormant for years. Hell, after a trip down to Jackson's lab, he had things glowing blue that we hadn't even known were Ancient. And each time he did it, each time he hesitantly placed a hand on a contraption and thought about turning it on, my smile grew. By the time we had run through every piece of Ancient technology we could locate on the base, I was bouncing on my toes. Clamping a hand on his arm, I was already dragging him down the hallway toward the gateroom. "Call the Prometheus, Sam; we're going back to Antarctica." "Whoa, hold on, McKay." He dug in his heels and I jerked to a stop. "I dodged that bullet once before. What is so important about going under the ice?" I smiled broadly, unable to contain my glee. "I have a chair you need to sit in." "A chair?" he asked dubiously. "Believe me, Major, you make this chair work and you can have every bowl of red jello I come across." x x x x x This guy. This annoying goddamn guy. I'd been on a spaceship, a spaceship…I mean, my God. No pilot alive could out-cool that shit. There were stars and the misty blue curve of the earth beneath us—I was Han Solo, Buck Rogers, Captain Kirk. I was flying in a way I never had before. Never had dreamed was really possible. The Prometheus made the shuttles look like tinker toys. It was…there were no words for what it was. Up to now though, it was the best moment of my life. But although I had no words (well, I had one. Cool—which had gotten me a roll of astrophysicist eyes), McKay had hundreds. Thousands. Ancients, drones, Ascension, the Pegasus galaxy, gene therapy…the latter, he explained condescendingly, was for the normal personnel. Mutant throwbacks wouldn't require it. This ATA gene was most likely linked to a low prehistoric brow, small brain, and tendency to eat one's own bodily vermin. "I thought you said humans were the second evolution of these Archaics…Ancients, whatever. The super-advanced guys?" I pointed out. "Wouldn't that make me a superior blast from the past?" "That's quite a conceited and utterly incorrect concept." He turned from the blue, white, and black view before us to glare at me. "Second evolution, coined by Dr. Daniel Jackson who has obviously lost brain cells from his ten or so expirations, is a misnomer. You've seen their technology. At best, we'd be a de-evolution. Or…." His eyes sharpened in consideration. "As I've hypothesized, a horny Ancient or two diddled whatever tool bearing monkey that was around at the time and here we are. A cross-breeding. Of course, if we knew exactly when they left and when they returned and why we're still here if they ascended. Wouldn't we have ascended with them if we were one evolving race? Or were we still the flea picking, grub eating, stick waving white trash relatives that they were too embarrassed to haul with them? Sure, we'll be back for you. Here's our forwarding address. Check's in the mail. Don't let the fuzzy dice hit you in the ass." He snorted and shook his head before brightening. "But they did leave us some truly amazing toys." "In other words, you don't have the gene, right?" I grinned, picking that pertinent fact out of all the morass of McKay ranting. A McRant if you will. They had McMuffins, why not McRants? Just substitute a Canadian astrophysicist for the Canadian bacon and you were set. When it came to him not having the gene, I'd suspected as much when I was the only person turning things a glowing blue back at Cheyenne Mountain. There was no way McKay wouldn't have tossed a few in if he could. Born show off. I was one, too, and it took one to know one. "I," he said with narrowed eyes and out-thrust chin, "am not included with the mutant throwbacks, no." Yeah, this guy…I had to say I'd never met anyone like him. Simultaneously smug, conceited, a shithead of unbelievable proportions, but…don't ask me how there was a but, I don't have a clue. There was one though. A 'but.' He was brilliant, sarcastic as hell, a complete dork around women, and he didn't let me get away with anything. Most people did. I had the occasional higher-up who hated my guts, but as a rule, I could charm anyone. To be more honest, manipulate anyone…especially female. Flash my cocky grin, bring up roller coasters for women (how fun and cute…and that little boy hair is just adorable) or beer, football, and flying with men (damn, he's cool. Babes, planes…he's Maverick without the Scientology.) It was pure survival instinct on my part…at least I hoped it was. I hoped it wasn't coldly intentional, that it was a result of more bases and schools than I could count. After all, the more you made them like you, the less likely they would leave you, right? For your mom to leave you, you have to be one helluva loser. Obviously changes needed to be made and work needed to be done. Simple math, even for a kid. So, I did the calculation and then I did the work. And I'd never stopped. A Texan Machiavelli or the remnants of a long gone kid doing his best to survive…whichever. I had my moments and they weren't all good. Rodney…shit, McKay…didn't fall for any of it. He couldn't care if I was a hotshot pilot, he didn't care I had several women in the cafeteria smiling and flirting with me at a distance. He didn't let me pull anything, didn't acknowledge my Joe Cool personality (probably thought charisma was just a hot actress on some TV show), and only listened to what I did say so he could immediately contradict it. He…. Damn it, that son of a bitch never did give me his jello. The last thing about McKay was, well, he was entertaining…especially to see in action. He was all over the bridge of the Prometheus…a goddamn spaceship, I was never getting over that, swear to God…shooting questions like bullets, correcting anyone and everyone who was trying to do their job. Their hunched shoulders and expressions of panic and annoyance were immediate the instant they saw him coming. It didn't slow him down a bit. At one point he crawled under a console and started ripping things out, worked for all of two minutes, came back out and said caustically to the crewmember and room at large, "Now you won't end up in the center of a sun at the end of your next hyperdrive jump. Enjoy." He was like the Energizer Bunny with the brain of Napoleon. Unflagging drive and the smarts to back it up—not to mention a dash of gleeful fascism. It was a good thing Canada was such a peaceful, civilized nation, because I had the feeling with McKay on their team, we could've easily ended up saying 'aboot' and saluting the Maple Leaf for the rest of our lives. Welcome to the Southern Canadian States, where Prime Minister McKay rules with an iron fist and impatiently snapping fingers. Which he was doing right now. Snap snap. "Are you listening to me, Major? I realize this isn't a bar and you're withering away from lack of alcohol and petrified legumes, but this is important information I'm giving you." I opened my mouth to give back as good as I'd got when I saw him. Her. It. At that point my mouth stayed open and my mind did a somersault then curdled a little. What the fuck? Seriously…what…the…fuck? I finally managed to get my mouth closed before any saliva escaped and said firmly if hoarsely, "If there are any anal probes on this ship, I want off. Now." McKay rolled his eyes. "Says the man who tried to pick…er…borrow my 'salty snacks' last night." Then his gaze caught up with mine. "Ohhh. That's just Fenrir. He's an Asgard. Only one of them, Loki, ever did any probing. You're virtue is safe, Major, have no fear." He folded arms and leaned against the bulkhead. "Curious really, why their black sheep would be up to such tricks. Maybe the Asgard, having no genitals, have no…ah, other area…either. Maybe he was simply curious. Maybe…." "Maybe he was studying to be a proctologist," I gritted. "I don't know and I don't care. It's an alien. A real live alien and it's naked." I didn't point at it…McKay said there were no probes aboard, but who really knew. No sense tempting fate. I did jerk my head in its direction though. "Naked." I looked away, looked back, looked away, and looked back again. "And smooth," I lowered my voice, more than a little disturbed. "It's all…smooth…down there. It's…holy shit. It's coming over here." No, not coming. It was there. Right in front of me, impossibly large eyes studying me, and it… he… smelled. Not bad and it wasn't strong at all, but he definitely didn't smell like a human. In fact, he sort of smelled like root beer. Yeah, definitely root beer. A root beer smelling alien, hopefully without a probe, and he was staring at me. Finally, the small mouth moved. "I'd heard you located another human with a genetic mutation, Dr. McKay. I'd assumed you meant the ATA gene. I was unaware your scientific community had mapped the human genome for catastrophic follicular aberrations." As McKay immediately gave an obnoxiously explosive, "Ha!" I ran a hand over my hair and scowled at the Asgard, "Hey, ET, at least I beat out a Ken doll for anatomical accessories. I've got a Disney song for you, pal. It's called the Bare Necessities. You should look into it." "Whoops. Sore topic. Moving on." McKay snagged my arm and urged me across the room, muttering under his breath, "The Asgard don't have sex…well, they don't breed. Maybe they have sex. Maybe instead of bumping uglies they're bumping smoothies, I don't know. Either way, they don't reproduce. They've long lost the ability, the fertility. Whatever. Now they clone." "Yeah, that's a shame, but it's no reason to pick on my hair." Women loved my hair, goddamnit. "Hell, they're bald. What do they have to be so smug about?" "Oh, pretty much everything really," he said with dark cheer. "They even imagine their brains are superior to mine. Can you believe it? An entire race utterly deluded, but we need their help on occasion, so what can you do? Just muster up a little genital schadenfreude and you'll feel much better. Now." He stopped and faced me, bouncing on his heels. "Seen enough. Ready for the big toys?" The thing was, I knew Rodney…McKay, I meant…McKay…oh fuck it. I knew Rodney could've just beamed us up and beamed us straight on to Antarctica. In fact, the Scotty-type member of the crew that did the beaming seemed confused when we didn't just go on. But Rodney had taken the time to show me around. He wouldn't give me his jello, by God, but he did give me a tour of the most amazing thing I'd seen in my life. He gave me time to wander the bridge, pointed things out (when he wasn't ripping them apart), and he'd let me….hell. He'd let me be a huge-ass tourist. No. A geek. He'd let me be a geek and just soak in what I'd dreamed of since I'd seen my first Star Wars movie. It was better than jello. "Yeah." I took another look around…still barely able to grasp that it was real. "I owe you, Rodney. So let's go sit in that chair of yours." "Rodney?" he snorted and lifted haughty eyebrows. "You deny you want my peanuts, but that's a bit familiar and not exactly respectful of my station. I'm…." "Dr. Rodney McKay. The Dr. Rodney McKay," I grinned. "I remember." One of my favorite movies when I was a teenager had been Ghostbusters. There'd been a scene where the con artist played by Bill Murray introduced himself as Dr. Peter Venkmen, his colleague as Dr. Raymond Stantz, and the most brilliant of the team, with more doctorates than he could carry, as plain Egon. Hey, if it worked for Bill Murray…. "So, just how cold is it down there…Rodney?" I asked innocently. He frowned and shot back caustically, "Enough that you'll soon be joining the ranks of the Asgard, so button up." Caustic, yes, but there was a glitter in his eyes that was almost pleased. I doubted he got back as good as he gave very often. That mouth would scare the hell out of your average geek underling. And the military weren't allowed to shoot him. The man probably didn't get a lot of dialogue going on in his life. He was all monologue, and that had to be kind of boring, especially for a man as smart as he claimed he was. It would also be a little lonely. Less than forty-five seconds later I found out how cold it was. Even inside where the conditions were supposed to be livable. It was one helluva change from Vegas and made the Colorado we'd just left look balmy. "Okay, Fuck the chair. Send me back. Preferably to Hawaii. Any beach with a luau will do." My teeth chattered and I zipped up the coat they'd given me on the Prometheus. "Ah, yes. I'm sure there's no citrus anywhere there." Face turning pink with the cold, McKay slapped gloved hands together. "All right, bubble boy, let's see what you can really do." We walked through the huge space. Although it looked as if it had been hollowed out of ice, there was the occasional metal arch inscribed with odd symbols. People were milling about, working on machinery or computers. No one gave us a second glance; although a few people bolted off the instant they saw us. One of them had a shock of brown hair, heavy curved eyebrows, and soulful blue eyes. He looked to be a bit pudgy under his heavy coat, but he could sprint with the best of them. "Oh, fine, Carson. Run away, you coward," McKay called after him. "Big baby," he muttered under his breath. "He blows up one Russian satellite and you can't get him near the chair now." "Russian satellite? You're shitting me, right? The one that dropped a flaming chunk that missed that cruise ship by less than fifty feet?" I said nonplussed. "Please. It was sixty-five feet and I'm sure great entertainment for Gopher and Captain Stubing." He nudged me back into motion and then there was the chair. It was metal and crystal and looked for all the world like Darth Vader's barcalounger. "So," I said slowly, "how did this thing have anything to do with blowing up a satellite?" "It links to everything in this Ancient outpost. Everything…if we could get it to work…including weapons systems. Just don't think about blowing things up and you'll be fine." He nudged again, then pushed when I didn't move fast enough to suit him. "Sit, make yourself at home, take a load off. Whatever. Just turn the damn thing on, would you?" he ordered impatiently. And I got it. To him, this was as amazing as the Prometheus was to me. Except I'd been on the Prometheus and McKay could only press his nose to the glass here. He didn't have the gene. I'd flown on a spaceship, but to Rodney his ship was sailing overhead while he was firmly and futilely stuck on the ground. That had to suck pretty badly for him. "Okay, okay. Sitting." I sat gingerly as I did my best to think about nothing, which would hopefully equal not destroying Russian satellites. As soon as I sat, the seat back reclined and the whole thing glowed to life. I shot a nervous look at McKay, trying to ascertain that all satellites were still safely in orbit. He didn't seem worried, in fact, he seemed rather pleased. "Good. Now, think about….think about where we are in the solar system. Think about Earth." I was going to. I had every intention of it. But I had one thought that slid into home first. Cold. I was still cold as hell. Abruptly the blue glow brightened. From the chair. The floor. The walls. The ceiling. The room beyond the doorway. Everything. The light shone through the ice with an intensity that had it cracking, melting and pouring to the floor in watery waves. Metal and crystal walls were revealed, mosaics, more machinery. There was massive hum as the entire outpost came to life and warm air drifted around us like a blanket. Rodney, bathed in blue light looked around, his mouth open, eyes unbelieving, before looking back at me. I grinned and then we both said it simultaneously. x x x x x I don't like people. I tolerated them, I put up with them, I endured them because, unfortunately, there are only twenty-four hours in a day, I only have two hands and two eyes, and eventually I run out of clean underwear and need to eat. But as a general rule, I don't like people. And actually, that's okay, because to be perfectly fair, people don't like me. Hard to believe, considering how I have all but devoted my life to finding ways to improve theirs, but it's true. For some reason they wanted their geniuses to be brilliant as well as charismatic, thought provoking while self-deprecating, outspoken and yet soft spoken. They wanted to place Albert Einstein, Gandhi, and Mother Teresa in a blender and create a scientist smart enough to save the world on principle alone and, while he's at it, give them all a hug. Well, sorry, I liked food and I didn't like hanging out with people with communicable diseases, so they would just have to settle for the I.Q. and skip the PDA and thank their lucky stars that I decided to use my powers for good instead of ruling the world from a secret lair in a dormant volcano. That's just the way it was, me domineering, them quaking, work getting done, progress being made. Until I met John Sheppard. For two and a half weeks, I had been working with the man. Actually working with him. Not me dictating and him groveling. Not me dazzling him with my intellectual prowess and him basking in my glory. Not him hiding and me dragging him by the scruff of the neck to cower before the equipment. But actually accomplishing what we set out to do on a daily basis. Oh sure, he'd been plenty dazzled by the Prometheus but that was to be expected from anyone who had argued as a child over who got to be Han and who had to be the Wookie. And as wary as he'd been about sitting in the chair, he did it, unlike some Scottish sheep huggers that shall remain nameless. I swear to God, he shoots down one satellite…one!.. and you'd think the world was coming to an end. I've been to Russia; the television reception sucked when the satellite was still in orbit, so it evidently wasn't doing much for them to begin with. Besides, it's not like there's anything worth watching from Western networks anyway. But Sheppard had sat in the chair, and aside from threatening the melt the polar ice caps, which I assured Elizabeth was very unlikely to happen in actuality…at least I was ninety percent sure it wasn't going to happen.. nothing cataclysmic had occurred. Nothing except that I found I actually enjoyed hanging out with him. I mean, I wasn't going to propose marriage or anything, but for the first time in years I found myself looking forward to working with someone as opposed to just wishing I could clone myself and do away with the minions. He was smart, in a borderline idiot savant sort of way. He was confident, in a 'my hair looks good doing an impersonation of a porcupine in heat' sort of way. And he was amusing in a 'no, seriously, my hair looks good like this' sort of way. He did what I asked, he didn't back down, and he didn't take shit from my staff, from the Marines, or from me. Especially from me. It was like he took great pleasure in pushing my buttons instead of avoiding them like most people did. And that was… unexpected… and ultimately refreshing. Carson, however, was on the verge of dropping on one knee and breaking out the prenup, which would have said I'll do anything you want as long as you keep Rodney from asking me to activate another piece of Ancient technology. Major John Sheppard was the answer to his prayers and dreams all in one. A uniform-clad savior with the genetic makeup to finally put his theories of an ATA gene therapy to the test. Carson didn't have to sit in the chair, or try to activate a device or even button up his coat in his lab for that matter since Sheppard had arrived. And he had collected enough blood from the Major that I was surprised the man wasn't collapsing from anemia in the lab. Just the day before, I had been looking for Sheppard to help with one of the consoles we had uncovered during his great defrosting episode. When I called for him on the radio, Carson answered instead. "It will be a bit longer before Major Sheppard can come help you, Rodney." "Why is that?" I demanded suspiciously. "And more importantly, why the hell are you answering for him?" "The Major is feeling a tad…woozy right now." Pushing the Czech guy with the ridiculously long name out of my way, I started toward the infirmary. "Godammit, Carson, did you break him? Because I told you if you kept tapping him like a maple tree, you were going to damage him." "I'm not a remote control car, McKay," Sheppard slurred across the airwaves, "He can't break me." "If anyone could, it would be Count Beckulla, the Scottish vampire," I countered. "If anything, the Major is on the verge of exhaustion, Rodney. He doesn't need to be working in the labs until the wee hours of the morning. And neither do you for that matter." "He's working the same hours I am, Carson and I'm not feeling 'woozy'." I rounded a corner as I formed air quotes and nearly collided with Grodin who turned and started trailing after me. "You did get lightheaded last night," the Major reminded me. "I did not." My chin rose, even if he couldn't see me. "I simply felt like putting my head down on the table in frustration." My defense obviously did little to convince our chief medical officer. "Did you skip dinner again?" "It may have slipped my mind." Frowning, I shoved the folder Peter had handed me back into his chest without even opening it. "Rodney, how many times do I have to remind you to eat? You know you're blood sugar drops dangerously low…" "Dangerous is such a dramatic word," I protested across the radio. Grodin, who was still matching me pace for pace as I made my way through the base, snorted. "You claimed you were defying death simply standing in line when I took the last muffin at breakfast last week." With narrowed eyes at the Brit, I inquired, "Aren't you supposed to be finishing up a report on the power consumptions of a fully operational base?" He pressed the folder back in my hands and I glowered harder. "Whoa, what do mean dangerous?" Sheppard cut in as I flipped the report open while I walked. "You mean he didn't tell you? Dr. McKay is hypoglycemic, Major." "No, he failed to mention that," Sheppard drawled meaningfully in my ear. "He tells everyone else." Grodin's mumble beside me earned him another glare. Carson's explanation had Sheppard asking, "So this hypoglycemia, that's bad?" "Well, it's not as serious as his heart condition…" "Carson, have you even heard of patient/doctor confidentiality?" Turning back to Grodin, I slammed the folder shut. "According to your calculations on page three, we'll be consuming enough energy to suck a white dwarf dry in fifty years. For some reason, I doubt that's the case." "I didn't extrapolate the power usage for fifty years; I only did it for five." "Rather short sighted of you, then. Redo it. And run the calcs by Simpson before you bring it back to me. I have more important things to do than read rough drafts." Peter gritted his teeth and grumbled, "It's not a linear relationship, Rodney." "Prove it." I pushed the folder back at him and walked through the infirmary door, leaving him hovering in the hall. "And you call me a bubble boy," Sheppard scoffed from where he sat a little glassy-eyed and propped up on a hospital bed with an ice pack on his neck. "Am I fainting in the middle of the day? No, I don't think so. When I do, then you have permission to ridicule. Until then, just lay there and practice focusing on moving objects." A technician walked past me and Sheppard took the offered cup. "I didn't faint," he growled. "I just stood up a little too fast after the last blood draw. And evidently the only reason you didn't is because you horded all the pudding at lunch." "I gave you the red jello, didn't I?" Reaching out, I snatched the cup from his hand before he could take a sip and tuned my anger on the technician. "What the fuck is this? I've heard of shirking work but sending patients straight to the reaper is taking that concept to the extreme, don't you think?" "Rodney, what's the problem?" At Carson's question, I stuck the paper cup irately under his nose. "Orange juice, Carson." Turning back to the tech I poked a finger in his chest. "You like having heat in here don't you? Then you might not want to kill off the damn thermostat." "Rodney, I'll handle this," Carson assured me then led the technician away for a lecture on patient's charts and allergy warnings. "Uh, thanks, McKay," Sheppard said sheepishly. "I guess I wasn't paying attention." "It's a wonder you made it to adulthood. Natural selection should have culled you from the herd years ago. But seeing as your hair defies the laws of physics, I shouldn't be surprised to see that the rest of you has defied the laws of nature." "I do have a problem with following the rules," he smirked. "You should read my personnel file." "I have." His face darkened at the news and I informed him simply. "I'm the lead scientist on this expedition, Sheppard. I attend the senior staff meetings. Did you think your service record wouldn't come up when we were discussing bringing you along on the trip through the worm hole?" "And what's the consensus?" "Me, personally, I couldn't care less. You could have been storing parts of door-to-door salesmen in your freezer to eat as a side dish to your Lean Cuisines; I would have simply proposed we muzzle you a la Hannibal Lecter and dollied you through the gate on a hand truck. That's how badly we need your ATA gene. Elizabeth and Carson feel pretty much the same way. Sumner is the only one that has any problem with it but O'Neill outranks him and Elizabeth out finesses him, so your transfer paperwork should be coming in sometime this week." "You can't be stationed at Nellis and on the far side of the galaxy at the same time, that's a little conspicuous. So you'll be officially transferred to McMurdo like most of the military on the expedition." With a grimace, he removed the ice pack and rolled his neck. "The Colonel isn't going to happy with that." "Like I said, Sumner doesn't have a leg to stand on with his protests," I assured him. "Considering that Miko number two took the transdimensional express to make sure you do go to Atlantis, no one has much of a valid argument against you going. In fact, you're the only one that can say no at this point seeing as it's a strictly voluntary mission." "Not Colonel Sumner, Colonel Sheppard." When I furrowed my brow in confusion, he went on to explain. "My dad, Rodney. He used up his last silver bullet to arrange to have me stationed in Vegas instead of Antarctica. And now I'm requesting to be transferred here?" Swinging his legs off the bed, he shook his head. "This is pretty much going to blow the cease fire we've had for the past year." "Oh." What else could I say? Families…families pretty much sucked in my book. And evidently they weren't too high on the list of favorite things for Sheppard either. "Well, in all fairness, you won't actually be here but on a top secret, first of its kind mission to another galaxy. Of course, he won't be allowed to know that. But the fact remains…" "He isn't one to let facts get in the way of the official record." Standing, he put a hand on the bed to steady himself and changed the subject. "Now, do you still need me to look at that console?" "Yes. That is, if you feel up to it." He seemed to consider it for a few seconds then finally said. "You know, I'm not so sure I do. I think I'm going to head back to my quarters for a little while. I'll meet you in a couple of hours." "Sure," I granted weakly. Not that I knew him that well, but it was the first time I had seen Sheppard unsure of anything and the lack of his usual cockiness was admittedly a little unnerving. He simply nodded and headed toward the door somewhat unsteadily. "Major," I called after him and he stopped without turning around. "For what it's worth, I do prefer facts to official reports. And I think you did the right thing in Afghanistan." He still didn't turn but he seemed to straighten slightly. "I'll see you in a few hours, Rodney." And he was gone. When he finally did show up, he was back to his old self and I decided to let the whole transfer issue slide. Who needed to get all emotionally touchy feely about these things anyway? It just complicated matters and things were complicated enough without them what with the tech and the preparations and the other issues both personal and professional that I had to deal with. Sheppard's paperwork came in right under the gun. Not surprisingly, the United States Air Force runs their administrative department with the same harrowing precision as an air show fighter jet team… hold the formation until the last possible second then veer off into the clouds to avoid a collision. It was the day before we were to leave, all personnel were to report to the SGC having made their arrangements and said their goodbyes in what we all hoped was a temporary but had accepted as a potentially permanent deployment. The Major had disappeared as soon as the papers came in and, after a little investigating, I tracked him down outside, sitting on a patch of grass on the hillside above the Mountain, flipping a coin. He snatched it from the air when I walked up behind him. "Why don't you just go ahead and scale Pike's Peak next time? I think the climb would have been just as difficult." "We can see the parking lot from here, McKay. That hardly qualifies as arduous." "I'm not a field person," I huffed as I sat next to him. "Why do you think I chose theoretical physics as a profession? It's not like you think you're going to get a lot of chance to practice these sorts of things hands on when you're writing your dissertation." "You will tomorrow," he grinned. With a flick of eyebrows and a flash of smile, I concurred, "I know." "So, all ready for the big trip?" "I guess." With my less than animated response, his eyebrows rose. "Yeah, I can just feel the excitement coming off of you in waves." "I had to give my cat to my neighbor last night," I admitted morosely. "You have a cat?" he asked in genuine surprise. "Had a cat," I corrected. "And don't seem so shocked." "You just don't seem like the type of person that would have a pet, that's all." "So how exactly do you picture my life away from the labs, Major? Sitting alone in my apartment wearing a t-shirt and boxers, eating a meal of dry toast and beer in the dark?" He shrugged. "Pretty much, except now I picture a cat rubbing up against your ankle while you do it." "Really? That's really what you think my life is like?" "Hell, McKay, I honestly can't picture you away from the lab, period. The only time I haven't seen you in it is when you go replenish yourself on dessert foods and caffeine in the cafeteria. And seeing as I'm not sure how that's keeping you alive, it amazes me that you could keep anything else alive, either." "I managed to keep your sorry ass from going into anaphylactic shock, didn't I?" At my bristling tone he rolled his eyes. "Yes, you did. And I'm sorry if the Distinguished Service Medal didn't go through. Evidently my pull isn't what it used to be with the big wigs back in Washington." "It's because I'm Canadian, isn't it?" I grumbled in mock outrage. "Nationalist bastards." "Yeah, that must be it." Returning the grin he gave me I eyed the folder with his transfer papers meaningfully. "So, I heard your paperwork finally came through." "Leave it to the Air Force to wait until the last possible minute to tell you where you're going." "And are you going?" I tried to keep the anxiousness the coin in his hand brought out in me. Realizing why I was asking, he flicked the coin again, fisting it tightly when he caught it without even looking at it. "Believe it or not, I made up my mind to go the day I met you, McKay. I mean the day I actually met you and not the drunken crackpot who thought I was whoring myself for peanuts and classified information." "Believe me, it wasn't as far fetched a conclusion as you seem to think it was." "I'm starting to see that." Was that a compliment? I mean, I wasn't unfamiliar with being told I was a genius but his appraisal seemed to be more than just an assessment of my intellect. Caught off guard and fighting to cover how flustered I found myself, I flicked a hand toward his fist. "Then what's with the coin?" "Just trying to decide a few other things before I go. You know, every ending is a new beginning sort of stuff," he told me philosophically. "And are you debating the beginnings or the endings?" "Little of both," was his cryptic answer. "Evasive much?" He wobbled his head enigmatically. "Depends." "Well, then, I'll take that as my cue to leave you the hell alone." I stood and brushed at the dampness that had soaked into my pants from sitting on the grass then started down the hill back toward the base. "I'll see you at the gate tomorrow, McKay." And sure enough, he did. I watched him from the Control Room as he tentatively approached the gate while that kid Marine… Ford, I think… flopped into the event horizon as if it were a swimming pool, saw the slight wince as he scrunched his eyes closed against the trip through the wormhole, and stepped through himself. I was in the first wave of scientists that came in behind him, falling into step at his heels as he moved forward, gun in hand and the steps of a dormant city awoke with his footfalls. We both froze when it happened, shared a quick glance of wonder and amazement, the same way we had when he sat down in the control chair and the ice melted and the water started to flow. And just like that day, I could see he was thinking the same thing I it didn't stay cool for long and the water started flowing in Atlantis, as well. Only this time, it was an entire ocean's worth that was crashing in on us and threatening to drown us all if we didn't do something fast. The city was submerged, which was one of the most incredible things I had ever seen, as was the shield that was holding back the Atlantean sea…except for the fact that it was failing and the ZedPMs in the power bank were on their last leg. And suddenly all the wonders of the city- a hangar full of spaceships, the architecture and spires we could see in the distance, even the blue-lit steps and sliding doors fell to the backburner as we fought to connect the generators to the control stations and DHD so the city would respond. "Get Miko number two up here," I called across the radio, "and see if she can help us. Her expedition obviously survived this." She had refused to tell us anything about what had happened when we were back on Earth, claiming she feared impacting the expedition if she did. But she had promised to help us once we were on the other side of the gate if we would take her back with us. And now it was time for her to live up to her promise. Then something dawned on me. "And Sheppard, get him up here too. Maybe this was why it was so critical that he come along." "You mean it wasn't just for my sense of style and winning personality?" I rolled my eyes as Sheppard walked up behind me, oddly relieved that he was there. "Yes, we just needed someone to stand around and look pretty. John Sheppard, Atlantean spokesmodel." Crawling back under the console, I started connecting wires from the generator to the panel. "Where have you been, anyway?" "Checking out the ships with the Mikos." He flicked his eyebrows excitedly. Patting a hand on the floor for a pair of pliers, I asked him, "Do you think you can fly them?" He squatted and placed the tool in my hand. "Do you think it will come to that?" Yeah, I really thought it would. And that would suck on so many levels I didn't want to think about it. So, instead I told him, "Just stick close, okay?" The reasons why I wanted him to were something else I really didn't want to think about and seeing as I was neck deep in trying to keep us all from being neck deep in water, I really didn't have time to think about it either. "I was kind of thinking the same thing," he admitted with a frown. "Well, unless I can get these generators to connect up or you think the Miko twins can call forth Mothra to fly us to safety, it might be our only chance. " "Dr. McKay?" A wary feminine voice called above me. "Seeing as I'm the only one working around here, that's a pretty safe bet," I snapped but peering out to see a shy Asian face looking down at me, I amended quickly, "Oh, good, it's you. So tell me, how did I stop this in your reality when we came through the gate?" "Oh, no, Dr. McKay, I'm Miko number one." She pointed to the 'Hello My Name Is Miko 1' nametag she was wearing. If only Elizabeth had let me write one and two on their foreheads with indelible ink like I had wanted, I wouldn't have had these sorts of problems. The sorts of problems I didn't have time to deal with at the moment. "Well, then where's the other one?" "She's gone." "Gone?" I clambered out from under the control panel. "What do you mean gone? Where could she go?" "She went into the spaceship, the one with the strange console, and just disappeared." "Disappeared?" Sheppard asked in amazement. "The ship too?" "Yes. And then I found this next to where the craft had been parked." She opened the duffle bag she was carrying and pulled out a ZedPM. A ZedPM. She was holding a goddamn ZedPM in her hands. "You do realize what that is, don't you?" At my question she nodded her head vigorously. "And you do understand that we're all going to die without one of those, right?" Once again she gave me a wide-eyed nod. "Then what the fuck are you still doing standing here? Go install that damn thing!" People. I swear to God. No wonder I had no use for them. She scampered off at my order with me hot on her heels. And true to his word, Sheppard was right there beside me. Well, I considered as we jogged through the hallway of an alien city, thinking for the first time in several hours that we may just live after all, maybe I had a use for at least one. x x x x x "Miko, it is time to go." "One moment more," I requested of the man standing in the doorway as I read over the message I was leaving in the database. To my dear friends and colleagues of the Atlantis Expedition: It is my fervent hope that this message finds you all well and that my plan has worked as I had hoped it would. You must forgive me, Dr. Weir, for I went against the orders spelled out by Stargate Command. I can tell you, now that the time is past and the deed is done, that I was supposed to send you all to your deaths. In my reality, the quantum rift that allowed me to travel to your reality was caused by a malfunction of a time travel device that the Ancients had developed and left on Atlantis when they abandoned her ten thousand years ago. This occurred when Atlantis flooded and did not rise from the ocean when the expedition first entered the city. In my reality, Dr. Weir traveled back in time ten thousand years and met a very kind and wonderful man named Janus who helped her by activating a failsafe that allowed the city to rise when people returned and configured the ZPM bank so that there would be minimal power remaining in the city from a lone ZPM. However, for this to occur, Dr. Weir had to stay behind in stasis and awaken every three thousand years to adjust the ZPMs. Unfortunately, everyone else on that first attempt died. In my reality, we believed that Colonel John Sheppard was the pilot of the Gateship that transported Dr. Weir back in time. We also believe that since no one had any memory of Colonel Sheppard but only records that had yet to be affected by the rift, that he did not go through the gate, and without him there to pilot the Gateship, there was no way for Dr. Weir to travel back and ensure that the city rose. So, it was my mission to travel into your reality and make sure that Colonel Sheppard did in fact take part in the expedition. And in that, I am proud to say, I was successful. However, I could not stand by and watch everyone die again in your reality. When I originally crossed over through the quantum rift, I brought with me a ZPM to power the gate and allow me to travel between Atlantis and Earth. Fearing that a fully charged ZPM would alter what happened in your reality, I was directed to place the ZPM on a feedback loop so that it would eventually drain. I did as I was told. However, I must beg forgiveness as I did not travel back the two months before the expedition was to depart as I was supposed to in order to give it time to drain. Instead, as you know, I arrived a few weeks before the departure date. Therefore, the ZPM was only partially drained to a state similar to the one that was left behind for the expedition in my reality. This would mean there was no reason for Dr. Weir to travel back in time and attend to the ZPM bank and no reason for everyone else to die. However, I could not leave the Gateship capable of time travel with you as that could potentially change your history. So, I took it back to the time of the Ancients to make sure of two things; the time travel device that caused the rift was destroyed and the failsafe was activated to allow the city to rise. As I had hoped, both have now been accomplished. It has also allowed me to avoid the entropic cascade failure that was inevitable if I had remained in your time with my alternate self. Therefore, I beg your forgiveness in disobeying the orders given me, but I hope that you understand that I had only the best intentions and the well-being of the expedition in mind when I did so. As to Colonel Sheppard. I have thought long and hard as to why it was necessary for him to come on the expedition now that I have taken the need for his piloting skills out of the equation for the initial survival of the expedition. It is my deepest belief that his role goes well beyond that one simple act. Although I cannot remember exactly what he did on our expedition as the quantum rift had impacted our memories by the time I left, I cannot help but think it was significant seeing as he was a Colonel in my time and reality and only a Major at the time of the expedition here in yours. But I also firmly believe that his military skills are only a portion of his impact on the people of this mission, in particular Dr. McKay. This is why I left a personal 'note' for Major Sheppard and Dr. McKay in the Major's pocket while we were working on the Gateships prior to my departure. I hope I was not being too forward when I did that, but I felt it was important that they understand how things were in my reality prior to the rift and now that the rift has been repaired, I trust they have returned to the way they should be. Atlantis is an amazing city. Having seen it at its most brilliant here in the past, I can only say that you have much to look forward to in your exploration. I consider myself most fortunate to have had the opportunity to see it this way. And although I cannot tell you more, I must let Dr. McKay and Dr. Zelenka and all my other colleagues know that you have only just scratched the surface of what she is capable of accomplishing and I am most envious that I will not be there to share your excitement when you do. You will also have many hardships ahead of you but I have included the addresses of five planets that currently have known functioning ZPMs so that they may be of assistance to you in the time to come. And with this final farewell, I must depart Atlantis once again. This time I am returning to Earth with the Ancients and a new and exciting adventure. It has been my greatest honor and privilege to work with you all in both realities and please know that I will miss everyone but look forward to what is to come. Most respectfully yours, Miko Kusanagi "Miko, we really must be leaving now." Saving the message, I turned and smiled up at Janus who was standing with his hands on my shoulder. "I am ready." "I truly believe they will be fine," he offered with a small encouraging squeeze. "So do I," I agreed with a pat to his hand. "You did set the failsafe, correct?" "It is set. When they install the ZPM you left for them, the failsafe will activate and the city will begin the process of rising." "And the time travel technology has been destroyed?" Just in case there was a failure for some other reason, I needed to make sure the quantum rift wouldn't form in my original reality and my mission would be a success. At my question, he sighed gloomily. "Yes, per the Council's directions, I have destroyed all my work." Not all of it, I thought to myself as I fingered the smooth device I carried in the pocket of my robe. But I would let that be a surprise once we made it through to the other side of the gate back on Earth. He still had another Gateship to build once we arrived back there to allow the SG1 team to travel back and leave the fully charged ZPM that would eventually make its way back to Atlantis via the Daedalus and save us from the Wraith. Evidently I wasn't very good at covering my thoughts because he narrowed his eyes. "You know something you are not telling me." Trying my best to hide the emotions on my face I reminded him. "The others are waiting. As you said, we must go." "Very well, but I will get it out of you somehow. I am a very persistent man." "Soon," I promised as I slipped my hand comfortably into his. "I will hold you to your word." And this time the smile had a bit of mischief behind it. He dimmed the lights in his lab and we walked through the corridors to the gate room hand in hand. I was still amazed by how similar and yet how different the city looked here in the time when it was inhabited by its creators, like Ryugu when Ryo-Wo still held court. And never had I felt more like Princess Otohime than with Janus by my side. The gate activated as we entered the embarkation room and we fell into line with the others leaving for another galaxy. It was odd, to be leaving a city that had been my home for several years to return to the planet of my birth that would be as foreign as Atlantis had been when I first stepped foot through the gate all those years ago, ten thousand years in the future. With a final lingering look back, I stepped through the gate to the Earth of my past, to an unknown future and their intersection that was now my present. x x x x x From the moment I'd met Rodney McKay it had been a wild ride. Stargate Command. The Prometheus. The Ancient Antarctic stronghold. The Stargate to another galaxy. And all of it, in my mind, was so inextricably linked with a certain astrophysicist that they all went hand in hand. One simple 'pass the peanuts' and I almost die in another galaxy. I mean, I know it didn't happen that way. With or without Rodney passing out in a hotel bar, I'd had my orders. I still would've made it to the SGC. The flip of a coin, though, that was a different matter. I'd told Rodney I'd already made my decision about Pegasus before I started tossing the quarter, but that there were other decisions to be made too. One of those decisions got me punched in the nose. Maybe I deserved it, maybe I didn't, but either way, the pain of a busted nose is exquisite. It almost takes your mind off the fact you're sitting on your ass on the floor, having been knocked there by the head science geek while in front of several marines. It doesn't happen that way in movies. The hero doesn't come back from the literal brink of death, messy, nuclear death at that, only to be punched in the nose for his trouble. I guess Rodney didn't waste much time on watching movies…like I'd said, he was one wild ride. We'd almost died from moment one. The city's shields began to falter, flooding began, and I wasn't the only one to think we'd walked through the gate only to die. But then the city had risen…some sort of failsafe a fuzzy little Czech guy had said—'my own indomitable genius,' Rodney had contradicted. Either way, Sumner had wanted some options in case the city didn't stay afloat. We'd gone to Athos, gained Teyla with my charm and love of rollercoasters, lost Sumner through sheer shitty irony. Woke the Wraith…one of the many things the other Miko hadn't told us about. We'd seen planets and people that, in the end, were more like us than they were different from us. Unfortunately the most like us had turned out to be the Genii. For all I hated their guts, I recognized my own kind when I saw us in a mirror. I recognized myself. The scraps of their nuclear bombs had helped us take out one hive ship though. That was something. It hadn't been enough, but it had been something. Then the Daedalus had arrived right in the nick of time. And then, like in the best of all soap operas, we'd faked our own death. The city had been emptied of Wraith. Of some people, too. Gone. Food or dead. Ford was still in a coma from the earlier attack by the lone Wraith. Bates had been infected with the Wraith enzyme. Big and coolly angry before, now he was…something magnified. Colder. More full of rage. Bigger. Twisted. We'd lost a lot, but not as many or as much as anyone thought we would. We'd survived. Against every fucking odd, we'd survived. And I'd come back…just as I'd promised Rodney I would. I was good at making promises and mostly I kept them. This time…this time I'd known I'd just wrapped a lie in bright paper and shiny ribbon and called it something it most definitely was not: the truth. Yeah, I'd lied to him because at the time he'd needed it. And, damn it, I'd needed it too. I'd needed that lie so fucking badly. We'd come back from the Brotherhood planet…one of the five planets Miko Two had told us about in her message we'd found a few weeks earlier… and Rodney had been an unholy mess. At first, I hadn't been able to decide if he was more upset that I, not him, had solved the puzzle or that that Brotherhood chick had used him. "I thought she'd liked me," he'd said plaintively. Drunkenly…with his head in my lap. Alcohol, it's so clever at getting us to do and admit what we don't even want to admit to ourselves. We'd sat in that Ancient star viewing room, drinking and wondering how long we had to live, when Rodney had toppled over, the back of his head impacting my upper legs…luckily only my legs as he fell pretty damn hard. "I thought she liked me," he'd said, eyes confused, with short hair a mess and arms folded defensively across his chest. "I really thought she liked me. You said she liked me." It had been mournful, accusing, and woebegone beyond the imagining. In vino veritas, right? What Rodney would have never let slip from his lips sober had been pulled out reluctantly now. Another victim of Kavanagh's hooch goes down. I'd sighed and patted his chest lightly. "She did like you, Casanova," I'd told him. "She just liked duty more. Look at it from her point of view. If some hot thing came along and asked you to give up what you value you most, would you?" He'd glared at me with eyes bloodshot from fermented alien potatoes and then the glare faded. "Sometimes they're the same thing," he'd said simply. It had been almost like an echo, but not. As if he'd said this…no…as if he'd not said this before, but said something so close to being the same. And I'd thought of Miko…thousands of them in thousands of universes. Thousands of Johns and Rodneys too…doing/not doing. Saying/not saying. The coin toss going one way then another. How can you do the right thing, say the right words, be the right person, if someone doesn't give you a goddamn handbook to go with all those choices? How can you? Miko Two had tried, with that photo she had smuggled across time and space and slipped silently into my pocket before disappearing to the past to save us all, but even she had only known one thing for sure. And, timing, well, it can be everything. And as we'd seen, sometimes people were in the same places in the different dimensions and sometimes they weren't. I'd imagined I lived in lots of them and died in an equal amount. Miko had only known her world, and barely remembered bits of it at that. She didn't know ours. But I'd gotten a grip on it fast. It was dangerous and no insurance company in existence would hand out a policy here. I was military. I was here to protect the scientists, protect the geeks, protect that annoying one in particular that somehow I'd ended up spending all my time with. I was the wall between the Wraith and our people. Walls are torn down. Just torn the fuck down…all the time. It hadn't stopped me from repeating his words in my mind…sometimes they're the same thing. I'd leaned back and felt my bones melt a little. Long day, a moderate amount of alcohol, a helluva lot of regret, and a warm lap…McKay put off heat like a furnace…it wasn't conducive to a high degree of alertness. Just as I'd begun to doze, he'd shifted in my lap and wrapped a hand loosely around my wrist. "There's a reason that I didn't notice Alina at first," he'd offered quietly. "I'm a social moron, I know, but I'm not completely hopeless." That's when it had hit me. He'd been thinking, but just not about what I'd guessed. Not about being dumped for a ZPM or pulling in second on a puzzle. He'd been thinking what I'd been thinking since I'd found Miko's message. Hell, to be honest, what I'd been thinking before I'd found Miko's crumpled bit of paper. "No?" I'd tilted my head. His hand had been warm on my skin, his fingers textured with calluses. Acid, electrical burns, building fembots, those things leave their mark. "No." He'd wanted to be exasperated, I could tell. Wanted to snap his fingers, twirl that manic hand. But he hadn't. For all the typical McKay impatience, for once he'd been afraid of what he might hear. Rodney wasn't one for long bouts of internal reflection, to say the least. Then Chaya came along, and I'd done what I'd thought was best for everyone's sanity. It hadn't done any good, and I'd thought I'd seen that light bulb flare behind his eyes then. As he'd said…social moron, but not hopeless. At that point, we'd had two weeks until the Wraith arrived. Two. There was no way to fight them, at least not the kind of fight you'd walk away from. We'd probably end up evacuating everyone we could through the stargate…assuming we could find someplace to evacuate to. As I watched, my geeks would disappear through the event horizon, probably with Rodney bitching the whole way. I'd send every man I could through with them, but someone would have to bring up the rear. And the people who do that…the ones who make up the wall…yeah. He had asked, and there could only be one answer. One promise. One lie. Two weeks with me…just try to get him through the gate then, especially considering the message Miko had left. I'd known how much damage I could cause to Rodney. The Wraith were imminent, death with pale skin and soulless eyes, and yet it had been somehow possible for me to actually make things harder for him…should he survive. I hadn't been able to do that. Not to Rodney. Wouldn't. Couldn't. My lips had curved slightly and I'd run a thumb lightly along the line of that pugnacious jaw. I hadn't been able to see the bristle but I had felt the invisible prick of it against my skin. Rodney had changeable eyes. From a distance they almost looked hazel, but up close they were blue. Clear blue but for a single brown speck near the pupil of the left one. Usually they were dark with irritation and impatience, then they had been dark with something else. Hope. Fear. An almost belligerent vulnerability. And other things…better things…things meant only for me. I'd leaned forward until my forehead rested against his and closed my eyes. His free hand had come up to tightly cup the back of my neck, and we had stayed that way for minutes, maybe longer. His breath had been warm against my ear, soft and even until it had finally hitched slightly. "So…time for the big lie?" He had tried hard…he really had. And he'd almost pulled it off. It had been breezy and casual, cracking only the tiniest amount at the end. I had exhaled, opened my eyes and straightened. I'd slid my hand through his grip until I could link fingers, promising quietly, "After the Wraith. When we're safe. We'll do things that will have Zelenka crying for his mommy, we'll make the backseat of every jumper unsafe for human habitation, and I'll be all over your peanuts." Then I'd grinned. It hadn't been a false one. It had been utterly genuine and real, because it hadn't been for me. It had been for Rodney. He had smiled back…it was faint and crooked as always, but it was there. "You give great lie, Major. Don't let anyone tell you different." He closed his eyes, but his hand stayed firmly almost desperately wrapped around mine as he demanded obstinately, "And I want to see whatever the hell it was that Miko Two left you." But I hadn't shown it to him then for the same reasons I hadn't shown it to him when I first found it in my pocket after shooting my CO in the head. At that moment, I knew the universe was filled with monsters, real ones that could have stepped straight off the screen of a Wes Craven horror flick. And what I'd seen in the photo…what I'd seen the other John and Rodney had…well, as much as I might have wanted it, it was a luxury that we couldn't afford. It was always the horny teens in those slasher movies that were the first to buy the farm. And I wasn't going to fall prey to the same hormonal inattentiveness that took them out in the end. So, I'd kept the note to myself and Rodney in the dark and he would have stayed that way if Miko hadn't spilled the beans in her farewell to Pegasus message we had found in the abandoned lab several weeks before. Ever since then, he hadn't let up about the damn thing and I hadn't given in. I'd told him I'd never found a note, that it must have been destroyed in the laundry, that she must have slipped it into someone else's pocket…any lie I could come up with. So that by the time I had promised his drunken ass a happy ending, he was right…I really did give great lie. As it turned out, it hadn't been a lie. I'd made a promise, I'd kept it…was really looking forward to keeping it. Eagerly looking forward. In fact, if I weren't so exhausted, emotionally and physically, I would've been so eager, it would've been virtually pornographic. So why the hell was I sitting there on the floor, tasting blood on my upper lip, and having a pissed off Canadian cursing me? From his twitching foot, I thought he might be considering kicking me as well. "You son of a bitch. 'So long, Rodney'?" He bent and snarled in my face, "Yes, that's exactly the goodbye I'd been hoping for. So fucking long. Surprised you didn't text message it on your way out. OMGCUL8R. Asshole." And there came the foot. I caught the boot with one hand, it wasn't that serious an attempt, as I wiped blood from my upper lip with the other. "Okay, Dr. McKay. Someone obviously has been on the Air Force good speed for a little too long now. Let's see about getting Carson to give you something and bring you back down." Which wasn't true of course. Well, a little true. But after making sure the city was empty of Wraith, hiding the city under the camouflage of a shield and nuclear bomb, and doing a head count of his geeks, Rodney had probably mostly come down from his high. '…just speeding away, thought he was James Dean for a day.' I shook my head free of random song lyrics and thoughts and stood. Rodney knew exactly what he was doing. He'd thought I'd died. Hadn't known that the Daedalus had beamed me to safety. For nearly a minute I was the late great Major Sheppard, gone to Glory on a bomb Rodney had built with his own hands. God, he never would've forgotten that. And he was right. I admitted it. I was an asshole. I'd ran out with nothing more than a so long, because I'd known what he'd do if he recognized my intent in my eyes. He would've been after me in a hot second. It was the only thing I could've done, but that didn't mean it had been the right thing. Necessary, yeah, but not right. "Bring me down? Bring me down? Trust me, you've brought me down plenty already, Sheppard. Let me count the fucking ways." With that, I had his arm up behind him as I marched him hurriedly out of Control. Rules were still rules. Laws were still laws. It might change, but it hadn't yet, and Rodney's mouth didn't need speed to be out of control. I kept pushing, ignoring his attempts to dig in his heels, until we were in a transport. I thought us to the nearest transport station to Rodney's quarters. Rodney's because I didn't want anyone showing up looking for me at my quarters, not with what I had planned. I let go of his arm then and he leaned back against the wall, slid down to sit on the floor and dropped his head in his hands. "You son of a bitch," he said quietly, all the anger and venom gone. "You goddamn son of a bitch." I sat beside him. We were already at our destination, those things worked instantaneously, but that didn't matter. This was what mattered. "I know." I leaned my shoulder against his. "I know and I'm sorry, Rodney. Sorry as hell." "We watched it on the scanners, you know," he said with eerie calm. "I wondered which of those pixels of light was your disintegrated bits floating around. It was strange. I thought if I looked hard enough, I'd recognize it. This…this is the precise spot that John ceased to be. I don't know why it made a difference. It's not like I was going to have the opportunity to float a wreath out there for you, but…I just wanted to know. I wanted to know where you'd gone through the door. I wanted to pretend you were still hanging around on the other side of it. That I could knock and maybe you'd open up and come back through." He straightened and leaned his head back with a distinct clunk against the transporter wall. "I'm so high" He exhaled and rubbed his eyes. "No, not high. Down, six feet under and all used up." He looked at me, deep raccoon smears around his eyes. "I want to go to sleep. I want to forget this day ever happened. I want to see that goddamn note." He blinked as his words began to slur. "I want to forget you died. I want to forget…." His eyes rolled back, lids closed and his head hit my shoulder with the same clunk that it had the wall. And he was gone. Out. I leaned my head against his, buried my nose in hair that smelled of sweat and two days without a shower and I didn't mind one damn bit. I managed to get his unconscious body to his feet, although it wasn't easy. I wasn't precisely in the pink myself. I hoisted him over my shoulder and staggered to his room. The door opened and I blinked to the sight of Dr. Z belly flopped on Rodney's bed. His shirt was half pulled over his head. I could only see one ear, the ear stem of glasses and lank hanks of hair. His pants were around his knees and some Czech version of Spiderman underoos was proud and loud in white, blue and orange. And the snoring….it put the underoos in the shade. "Well," I cleared my throat and said conversationally. "Rodney, you stud." It was too bad he was out like a light and couldn't hear me, him or Zelenka. Someone did though. "Our quarters were destroyed," came the calm voice of Miko One. Our Miko. She smiled at me. I thought I'd earned a little extra fondness back in the days when I'd tackled Rodney before he could label her with a permanent marker…on Elizabeth's order, of course. Miko would've let him too. She thought Rodney hung the Sun and Moon. And she thought Zelenka had created them. Sitting on the edge of the bed, she tried tugging at Zelenka's shirt while a hand swatted at her and grumpy Czech curses filled the air…all while he still slept on. He and Rodney had helped to save our asses, and their bodies were paying the price now. Undeterred, Miko kept it up until she'd gently maneuvered him free. Smoothing his hair, she removed his glasses and laid them on the bedside table. "So, Radek said Dr. McKay would not mind sharing." There was a twinkle in her dark eyes. "They are so like little boys with their games." Games? Yeah, but less like little boys and more like ego driven, stubborn geeks from hell. I grinned at her, "I'm sure Dr. McKay won't mind one bit. Make yourself at home. Rodney can sleep it off at my place." "I'm sure we'll have new quarters as soon as Radek awakes. There are many empty rooms…." "No," I shook my head. "Let's stick to what we know. The scanners say there are no more Wraith in the city, but best to play it safe for a while. And if Rodney feels….cramped, he can bunk with me for a few weeks." A perfect excuse, perfect revenge, and a perfect way to overcome any last attempts at pissiness on Rodney's part. It was like a gift. I wasn't going to waste it. Ten minutes later we were in my quarters and Rodney was snoring on my bed. He gave Dr. Z a run for his money. Except for the underoos. He'd gone with boxers. Plain white boxers that he'd also taken a permanent marker to. Across the back of them in bright purple, it read: BITE MY EARTH ASS. Just like Rodney…even if he got sucked dry by the Wraith, his corpse would have the last word. "Sorry, Supergeek," I snorted, "I don't think that's where they planned on sucking out your life." Then I pulled his shirt off to discover there was a similar message written on the bare skin of his chest. FUCK YOU, CATFISH SHITHEAD. I laughed. I laughed until my chest hurt and my eyes were watering. Then I stripped off my own clothes and spooned with a drooling, snoring, graffiti-covered geek. I nuzzled behind his ear and the line of his jaw. The warmth of his skin against mine was indescribable. I'd never noticed anything like that before. I'd noticed breasts and full hips and when was I getting laid already? I'd done the work, but it was always marking time for the end game. With Rodney…there was no game. There was no looking ahead to the big moment, although I knew it would be fucking amazing, no pun intended. With Rodney, it was about every moment…being in every moment. This moment of warm skin, his chest moving up and down, his rattling snore, the smell of salt and old fear on his skin. It was a perfect moment. Just like all moments with him were. No matter how fucked up the situation, how annoying he was being or I was being or we were both being. Despite all those things, every moment was perfect, was what it was meant to be. Every moment was full of the details of life I'd never bothered to notice before. Every moment…. Even sleeping has its moments…ones of fear and terror and regret and dying in a Wraith ship, dying on a jumper with a bomb, watching someone you love die…. "John, wake the hell up." I opened my eyes to see bloodshot blue ones three inches from mine. A short space, but like the moments, a perfect one. I kissed him. With the remnants of nightmare, the debris of a life nearly as terrifying. I kissed him and tasted morning breath, old power bars, bad coffee, and Rodney. Through and through, all Rodney. There were moments and there were moments, and when he surged against me and kissed me back, I almost had a moment all over his leg. There was a painful nip to my bottom lip and he pulled back. "You lied," he said flatly. "I did." Might as well admit it…he knew it. He'd known it all along. But I hoped later, when I showed him Miko's note, showed him a photograph of our mirror reflections wearing mirrored silver rings, he'd understand why. "You're a shithead." His eyes narrowed, then he exhaled. "Goddamnit." This time, he was the one to close the distance between us to kiss me. It was…it was the silver rush of an event horizon, the gut punch of your first space flight, the soaring height of a mythological city, the flip of a coin tumbling through icy air—it was the biggest fucking rollercoaster in the world. A wild ride. One damn wild ride. I would never look at a bowl of peanuts in the same way again. x x x x x Reality 1 Redux Life has a way of catching you off guard. One day you're doing your post-doc under a government grant, the next you're assigned to the Pentagon to advise them on wormhole physics because they found a device that actually creates them. One day you're called in to save the Earth from the ill-conceived machinations of a reckless, although sexy, blonde Air Force officer, the next you're on a military cargo flight to Moscow. One day you're walking through the gate and discovering the most amazing city ever built in the universe, the next you're laying in a bunk of the Daedalus, gripping a pillow with burned and bandaged hands waiting to die. Miko had been gone over two days now. Back to the past to fix the rift that was eating its way through the fabric of our existence. It would overcome us soon, overwrite this reality with the one where Atlantis never rose and as best we could tell, the expedition didn't live. I couldn't help but wonder what that would be like when it happened. Would we feel what it was like to die? Would it be instantaneous, like a bubble popping? Or would it be gradual, like a ghostly fading? Would we be immediately transported to an afterlife…dead relatives beckoning, white light, fluttering cherubs and pearly gates… or would we just simply be gone? And if no one even remembered what happened, would it even matter? If a tree falls in the woods, if a reality ceases to exist in the vastness of space, if at first you don't succeed… blah, blah, blah. Philosophy and pep talks were completely useless at this point and the only thing that could help us was completely out of my control so sulking and bemoaning my fate seemed as good a course of action as any for the time being. Wrapping my arms tighter around my pillow I found myself staring yet again at the screen saver on my laptop. As amusing as Kitten Wars might have been, it just seemed…wrong. And it was more than just baby tabbies wielding light sabers that seemed askew. It was like there was something that should have been there that wasn't. Everything felt wrong, had felt that way ever since the glitches with the ZedPM had started. I found that I kept looking over my shoulder as if expecting someone to be there, kept feeling disappointed when I went back to my empty quarters, kept sleeping crammed against the goddamn wall. And if Miko didn't succeed… With a sigh I clenched my fist in the fabric of the pillowcase, wincing at the pain that shot through my hand at the action. Stupid injury. Stupid quantum rift. Stupid screen saver mocking me from across the room. I forced myself to close my eyes, turning my face into the pillow for good measure to completely block it from view…and nuzzled the warm flesh of a familiar neck. Flexing my fingers, I felt muscles ripple across his ribcage as John shifted and wrapped his arm around me with a sleepy exhalation of breath. I did the same, moving my hand back and along his shoulder blade in an almost desperately possessive move. His hold on me tightened as well as he mumbled in my hair, "Hands bothering you?" Opening my eyes enough to look at my undamaged appendages I asked, "What?" As if realizing what he said and that it had made no sense whatsoever, he yawned an apology. "Sorry, weird dreams." "Yeah," I agreed against his skin, the smell of him alone causing my words to thicken. "Thought I'd lost you." The dream itself was fading, leaving behind the lingering emotions as the details grew fainter by the second. "Never." It was as much hope as it was promise but after the news he'd received, I wasn't surprised. I'd been working in the lab earlier that day, trying to track down the cause of those ZedPM tweaks that had occurred for some unknown reason then just stopped as mysteriously as they had begun when he finally worked up the courage to tell me what had been bugging him for the past day. "So, you up for a trip back to Earth?" I had narrowed my eyes and studied him. No, I wasn't up for a trip back to Earth. The entire damn city could sink on a whim if the ZedPM decided to flare up again, and that was just on top of all the other issues that were simmering in the background. The anchoring field that kept the city from bobbing like a cork on the ocean was showing signs of weakening and the engineers had traced it back to faulty power transfer in the distribution hub. The biologists were worried about a decline in the number of Atlantean sea gulls that had been residing in the city since it rose. Normally that wouldn't have been a hot burner topic for me except for the fact that a nesting colony had set up in the distribution hub and were dive-bombing the engineers when they tried to repair the transfer. Ronon had had to pick Radek up by the scruff of his shirt when he had stormed the cafeteria at dinner time…covered in alien bird guano with tufts of hair pulled straight up by angry beaks… and tried to throttle Pyongg who had refused to move the birds as he had originally agreed to do in the morning staff meeting. No, now was not the time to be heading back to Earth, but there was something about the way he crossed his arms with a forced casualness and wouldn't quite meet my eyes that had me biting my tongue. "Elizabeth came to see me." He shifted awkwardly. "Something's happened…family stuff." With a sinking in my stomach I demanded, "Oh, God, Nana? Jeannie?" "No, no!" he reassured. "Not your family, my…family." And don't think I missed the way he stumbled over that last word. But the relief I felt had me sitting back on my stool. "Okay, first of all, never let Nana hear that you don't consider her your family else she'll lock herself in the bathroom and we'll never get her out because her security makes the Ancient systems look like twisty ties and hand-written 'keep out' signs. And second, seeing as I'm sitting here, you must be talking about your dad." His shrug was as uncomfortable as the grin he tried to force. "Guess I was wrong; ends up the bastard couldn't live forever." Looking around the lab, I noticed for the first time that we were alone. I couldn't help but wonder how long he'd waited for everyone to clear out before he came in here. Standing, I wrapped arms around him, waiting until he did the same to me before continuing. It took a few seconds for him to accept the comfort, accept the fact that he wanted it, that he needed it, but finally he did and his fist tightened in the back of my shirt. "When's the funeral?" "They're waiting for word from me. Waiting to see if I can get leave from my deployment." He snorted against my shoulder. As far as anyone on Earth knew, he was stationed on a secret mission, probably assumed to be in the Middle East somewhere. Even his father never knew exactly where he was, just knew he wasn't where he thought John should be. Increasing my hold, I told him, "Have Elizabeth notify the SGC that we'll head out first thing in the morning." We went home and packed. Or I should say, I packed and John crammed every pair of socks we owned in a duffle bag before moving zombie-like to the next drawer and starting on the underwear. Looking over from where I was zipping up the garment bag with his dress blues and my suite, I frowned. "So exactly how many pairs of boxers are you planning on going through while we're there?" He blinked as if waking from a daze then started pulling them back out blankly and dropping them by wadded handfuls on the floor. "And since when do you unpack like I do?" Moving over to stand beside him I took both of his hands in mine before he could release another mass of cotton at his feet. "All right, stop, just stop. Maybe I should pack and you should go get us some dinner. Okay?" Taking a deep breath he nodded his head. "Yeah, okay." Exhaling forcefully, he looked down at the pair of boxers he held in his hand. They were mine, plain white except for BITE MY CANADIAN ASS printed across them in faded purple. One of several personal messages I had left for the Wraith during the siege of Atlantis and my underwear of choice on any mission that promised to be a particularly dangerous one. The quirk of lips that usually accompanied John seeing them was replaced this time with a frown. "I wish…" he started then just shook his head. Yeah. Sometimes I wished, too. Leave it to the death of another to remind you of your own looming mortality, of opportunities missed, choices made or not made, time lost. You don't always get a second chance. We had. When Elizabeth had traveled back in time, she gave all of us a second chance at finding the glories of Atlantis, and John and I a second chance at a first time. And I couldn't help but wonder about the choices John and I had made in the infinite number of multiverses that were out there. Did we or didn't we? Did we give in to the needs and wants and throw caution to the wind? Or did we do what we did here…what I did here. When John came back from that suicide run to the Hive ship, he would have lived up to his promise. I could see it in his eyes, hear it in his voice. But I had finally gotten my senses back from my drunken, albeit truthful, confession. The laws hadn't changed yet and I knew my limitations on keeping things undercover…pretty damn limited. I wouldn't risk losing him all together due to my carelessness. So I preempted any starts by passing the entire conversation off as drunken stress-induced ramblings and surely he didn't take me seriously, right? Taking the boxers from his hand I leaned in and kissed him. "It happened when it happened, that's all that matters. And I wouldn't change a thing." With a crinkle of my nose in disgust, I amended, "Except for the whole kissing Carson bit; that I would have skipped." When he gave me a small snort I patted his chest. "Now, go get us some food while I search for our wallets." He headed for the door then stopped. "Thanks for…you know… all this shit. It's not something you should have to deal with." Digging through the desk drawer with my right hand, I held up my left and waggled my ring finger at him. "If you deal, I deal. It's part of the contract." "I'm just saying, that if you're too busy to go…" "Stop right there. Don't let another idiotic word come out of your mouth. There is no way in hell you're going without me. I have no doubt that if left to your own devices you'd eat little and sleep less and, given your recently demonstrated packing skills, you'd do it all wearing nothing but boxers and tube socks. I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to admit that you need me and get over it." "I need you." There were very few times that John let raw emotions out. They were there, buried under sarcasm and cockiness and usually expressed through a touch or a smile or a worried frown. They were covertly portrayed through code names like Supergeek and the clink of our wedding rings was his own romantic version of Morse Code. And I understood every secret message. But this time, he wasn't hiding it in the least and it made my chest ache to see it. "You've got me," I assured simply. And he did. Let Atlantis sink. Let the sea gulls go extinct and the city wash up on the shores of the Mainland for all I cared. John needed me and that's all that mattered. He had me, from the moment that ice cave fell, from the moment the Daedalus beamed him back from the brink of certain death, hell, from the moment we walked through the gate and the city glowed to life he had me. And nothing would ever change that. He gave me a grateful smile, still standing in the doorway until I set him back to his task with a reminder. "Dinner." "Oh, right, dinner." And he was gone. That had been early in the evening. I had finished packing and we had eaten, eventually we turned down the lights and curled in bed together. And that's when I learned a lot about John's father and John's relationship with his father. Some of it told to me, but most of it inferred from the silence between the words. John's mother was actually his father's second wife. Wife number one was rarely mentioned…dead, deserted, or fed up, John never knew. But it had meant that his dad was closing in on forty when John was born. That was probably strike one against any chance of a close father/son relationship, a generational gap that was more like a chasm. The second strike was that John was his mother's son. Even though he could barely remember her, it was obvious that he hadn't inherited his easygoing way with people, his devil may care charm and his recklessness from by-the-books Colonel Hank Sheppard. Those had come from his mom and I had a feeling there were other similarities if he had had the chance to know her. No, he was a lot like his mom in all ways except one…John Sheppard didn't run away from his responsibilities. Even when he was given a way out. When John disobeyed orders and risked his life and precious military property to save those men in Afghanistan, his dad had offered to call in a favor and cushion the blow to John's career. Because in his father's mind, it was also a blow to his own spotless military record. Evidently mandatory retirement a decade prior hadn't sunk in just yet. But the offer had come with strings, strings John didn't want anything to do with. So he passed up the career-building position in Nevada and took his lumps in Antarctica. And thank God for that. It makes me shudder just to think that he might not have come on the expedition, that I might have never met him, never have known him. But the trade off for John was that he never spoke to his father again. Strike three; you're out of my life forever. But the game goes on. And John had more than proved he was capable of knocking them out of the park when life threw him a curve ball. Now, laying here in bed with him, I just considered myself lucky that he wanted me on his team, in his life, as his family. I snuggled in closer to him, no longer even able to remember the dream that had woken me a few minutes before. "Go back to sleep," I coaxed, trying to shake the disorienting feeling that was almost like déjà vu…it didn't feel so much like I had experienced it before so much as I had almost experienced it. "We've got a long day ahead of us." Airports and funeral homes and lawyers and insurance paperwork and the reality of a thousand other things that come to the surface when someone ends up six feet below it. He yawned again against my hair and completely out of left field warned me in a sleepy voice, "Don't touch that Ancient diagnostic doodah in your lab. Not safe." That last was little more than a mumble that trailed off into a snore. But that was John. Like I said, born and raised in left field, not to mention abandoned and now orphaned there. But he wasn't alone. As long as I was around I'd make sure of that. Coming to Atlantis and meeting John and the others, allowed me to put my sister's choices in perspective. Jeannie had chosen a family over science and it had taken me years to understand that. In fact, it had taken nearly dying with a group of people that had just months before been strangers to let me realize what family meant and why she might make that choice. But falling in love with John had helped me put my choices in perspective. I realized he had become the reason behind everything I did. Science was still my life, but John was my soul. And I suddenly didn't just understand family, I was part of one. On the far wall, I could just make out the outline of our family portrait, just see it shimmering ghostlike in the faint moonlight. A little over a week ago, I couldn't fathom why John would want such a thing, now I couldn't fathom why I hadn't wanted it. Closing my eyes again, I let out a drowsy snort against my human pillow at what a sentimental schmuck I had become. Well, I guess that's what comes of wearing a ring on your left hand and taking up residence in left field and being the support system for the one left behind. And in reality, I guess that's what family is all about. The End	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3111361/2/The-Geek-s-Guide-to-First-Times-and-Second-Chances	<urn:uuid:5e17f128-41e3-41a4-a918-54b5aee7a758>	en	0.989615	0.055551
Search tips Search criteria ACS Chem Biol. Mar 19, 2010; 5(3): 265–272. Published online Feb 12, 2010. doi: 10.1021/cb900293a PMCID: PMC2842019 Why Does Binding of Proteins to DNA or Proteins to Proteins Not Necessarily Spell Function? Buyong Ma, Chung-Jung Tsai, Yongping Pan, and Ruth Nussinov* Basic Science Program, SAIC-Frederick, Inc., Center for Cancer Research Nanobiology Program, NCI-Frederick, Frederick, Maryland 21702 * Corresponding author, ruthnu/at/ Received November 22, 2009; Accepted February 12, 2010. An external file that holds a picture, illustration, etc. Object name is cb-2009-00293a_0003.jpg Object name is cb-2009-00293a_0003.jpg Studies of binding are often question: first, is the observed binding functional, and second, if it is, which function? Is it activation or repression? The first question relates to binding at different sites; the second relates to binding at similar sites. These questions apply to transcription factors binding to genomic DNA and to protein interaction domains binding to their partners. Here, we explain that both can be understood in terms of allostery and the cellular (or in vitro) environment. The idea is simple yet powerful; it emphasizes the role of allostery in defining whether binding between transcription factors and (cognate or noncognate) DNA sequences will lead to function and to the type of function. Allosteric effects are the outcome of dynamically shifting populations; thus binding to even slightly different DNA sequences will lead to different transcription factor conformations that can be reflected in the binding sites to their co-regulators. Currently, allostery is not considered when trying to understand how binding phenomena determine the functional outcome. Allosteric effects can enhance the binding specificity in a function-oriented manner. Here we provide a biological rationale that considers cellular crowding effects. To be functional, proteins need to bind their partners; expressing function in the cell entails a network of binding events. Yet, in vivo and in vitro, binding of transcriptional control (TC) proteins to their cognate DNA response elements (REs) or of protein molecules to their protein partners does not imply function. Function is based on events taking place following binding, that is, whether the binding leads to specific subsequent binding events as specified by the cellular program. Consequently, identification of the location of the REs in the genome by chromatin immunoprecipitation (ChIP) that obtains protein−DNA interactions is often coupled with microarray readout of these experiments (ChIP-chip) (1). Such a combination assists in defining the in vivo utilization of genomic sequences by the TC proteins and the functional consequences. Toward this aim, the higher resolution and greater coverage ChiP-seq technique for genome-wide profiling of DNA-binding proteins is also gaining momentum (2). In genomic DNA, not all REs are chromatin-available (3). However, even for chromatin-available REs, binding of a TC protein does not necessarily indicate function. Similarly, detection of protein−protein interactions by co-immunoprecipitation via endogenous (not overexpressed and not tagged) proteins with subsequent Western blotting implies direct or indirect (via a bridging protein) binding; however, again, the binding may or may not specify function. Moreover, REs that are very similar, with only a single base pair (bp) change, can lead to vastly different functional consequences (48). Yet while it is broadly accepted that binding, whether of a TC protein to its RE or between proteins, does not indicate function, the reasons are not entirely understood. At one end of the spectrum, some types of specific binding are linked to specific functions ((1,1, panel A); at the other, specific binding is insufficient. Function is determined by subsequent events ((1,1, panel B). There are examples for both. For the first (4), p53 has a very large number of similar REs in the genome. Binding to certain REs activates DNA repair, cell-cycle arrest, senescence, or apoptosis; binding to others represses or inactivates pathways via either involvement of the histone deacetylase, inactivation of other DNA-bound and DNA-unbound activators, or other routes (5). The transcriptional repressor REST (NRSF), which encodes DNA binding affinity hierarchies contributing to regulation during lineage-specific and developmental programs, provides another example (9). Canonical REST REs bind strongly and control REST targets common to all cell types, whereas atypical motifs involve weak interactions in cell- or tissue-specific targets. Hence, selective binding of a certain RE already determines the functional outcome. The nuclear receptor (NR) provides an example for the other end of the spectrum; NR binding to its REs is insufficient. The functional outcome is determined by subsequent co-regulator, co-activator, or co-repressor, binding events at different sites (6,7). The Apak (ATM and p53-associated KZNF protein), a Krüppel-associated box (KRAB)-type protein(10) that regulates p53-dependent apoptosis, provides an example for a yet different mechanism: binding to both p53 TC and to DNA via its zinc-finger motif. At the same time, not all binding events away from the co-activator binding site are functional ((1,1, panel C). Why then does binding not necessarily imply function? We propose that to be functional, binding either should be a consequence of allosteric amplification of a minor conformational change, as in p53 and REST, or should lead to it, as in NR, or both, as in Apak. A similar situation can be seen in protein interaction domains (PID) such as PDZ, 14-3-3, Bromo, SH2, SH3, and LRR (11). Ligand binding to PID, mutations, or post-translational modifications away from the binding site allosterically alter the PID binding site conformation (12,13). ).22 provides two examples illustrating how binding at other sites by an RE (6) or agonist/antagonist ligand (14) can alter the respective co-regulator binding site conformations leading to activation or inhibition. Cellular fluctuations play key roles in all, either in the initial allosteric event or in subsequent binding events. Similar conformational changes can be elicited by perturbation (binding, post-translational modification) events on major allosteric pathways elsewhere in the structure (12). On the other hand, in nonfunctional binding the perturbation site is not on a major pathway between the RE’s (or agonist’s) and the co-regulator’s ((1,1, panel C). Thus chromatin immunoprecipitation obtains binding; however, microarray readout may not present functional change. This emphasizes the shortcomings in cellular network diagrams: pathways are neither simply sequential nor “yes/no” contingent events. Mechanistically, pathway steps are the outcome of allosteric response reflected in conformational selection (1520). This mechanistic picture rests on a dynamic view of molecules as ensembles of conformations. Figure 1 Figure 1 An illustration to explain why binding does not necessarily spell function. The response elements (REs, red boxes) of a given transcriptional control protein (TC) have very similar DNA sequences, with small base pair (bp) changes, yet they regulate genes (more ...) Figure 2 Figure 2 Two examples illustrating how binding at other sites−by an RE (A) or agonist/antagonist ligand (B)−can allosterically alter the respective co-regulator binding site conformation leading to activation or inhibition. In the left panel of (more ...) In solution proteins exist as conformational ensembles, which can be described by statistical mechanical laws, and their populations follow statistical distributions (2123). The number of states is vast, the conformational differences are generally small, and the barriers are low ((3).3). The more flexible the proteins are (as in the case of transcription factors that are often disordered), the larger the number of states. Ample data from single molecule, NMR, and other techniques (2434) validate this description (19,3537). During binding, higher energy lower population conformers that are most complementary to the ligand are selected and the equilibrium shifts toward these conformers (1518). This validated (19) “conformational selection and population shift” model1518 for molecular recognition provides an alternative to the 50-year old “induced fit” hypothesis(38). Relating this description to binding and function, in our first case type ((1,1, panel A), binding implies function; hence a key question is how the TC protein selects a particular RE among all similar and available REs in the genome (4) and similarly, how the PID (11), which can have hundreds of partners binding at the same site (39), selects a specific one. Since here the affinities are generally low, selection is dictated by prior binding (or post-translational modification) events. These allosterically shift the ensemble toward specific conformations. At the other end of the spectrum ((1,1, panel B), the TC already binds with high affinity many REs. One or two bps changes are amplified via population shifts in the TC ((2,2, panel A). Similar shifts are reflected in the PID(11) following phosphorylation/acetylation or ligand (e.g., agonist/antagonist (14,40,41), ),2,2, panel B) binding. The outcome is surfaces complementary to a specific co-repressor or co-activator ((1,1, panel B) (14). This explains the fundamental question of how the minor differences elicited by substitutions of single bps among REs or mutational, post-translational modification or ligand-binding events can lead to vastly different functional effects. This question is particularly crucial since protein factors and DNA generally present only small conformational changes. We note that here we assume that one RE is recognized by a specific TC. Although to date no cases of one RE recognized by multiple TCs has been observed, in principle this can happen; under such circumstances the RE can block the TC binding site, mimicking an antagonist. Figure 3 Figure 3 Simple illustration of conformational selection in terms of the free energy landscape. Several crystal structures of the glucocorticoid receptors and their corresponding REs are used here as examples. GR samples the conformational space around the native (more ...) Gene expression is controlled by cellular networks, which consist of linked processes. Text books, such as Cell Biology(42) depict processes as diagrams of series of binding events, where one follows the other or is contingent on the other. However, events like those of the nuclear receptor (5,6) question such simple descriptions ((4).4). Conformational changes elicited by one RE differ from those of another. Eventually, which co-regulator, e.g., acetylase or deacetylase, is selectively recruited depends on co-regulator concentration, post-translational modification states, etc., that is, on the network. In turn, the network reflects the cellular environment. Similarly, a PID can bind similar ligands but elicit different conformational changes in the partner-binding site ((1,1, panel B). Hence, here DNA (or, ligand) binding observed by experiment does not indicate whether it activates or inhibits expression; function depends on sufficiently high concentration of protein factors that recognize a specific binding site conformation amplified by a certain RE (or ligand). On the other hand, in the first case (e.g., of p53 (4) or REST (9), ),1,1, panel A), binding implicates function. Such a description further sheds light on the often observed low affinity binding: affinity measurements may not reflect in vivo scenarios. Figure 4 Figure 4 Allosteric regulation underlies the complex binding−function relationship in cellular networks. The figure highlights the inadequacy of current cellular diagrams that depict series of binding events. As an example. we depict the estrogen receptor, (more ...) From the mechanistic standpoint, we face two problems: first, if binding is at different sites, is it functional or nonfunctional, and second, if at similar sites, what is the outcome, activation or inhibition? Experiments reflect steady-state concentrations; they do not follow the time course of the immense fluctuations in the cellular environment and the consequent allosteric effects. This problem transcends into cellular network binding diagrams that do not reflect this changing selectivity. Yet affinity is a function of allosteric effects, and “yes/no” contingencies cannot mirror such changes. Binding can be a function of concentration or selectivity; in turn, selectivity is the outcome of shifts of the ensemble of conformational states following perturbation events, that is, the outcome of allostery. To increase binding selectivity is then the key role of allosteric events, and allosteric effects are not accounted for in cellular network diagrams. Binding is not necessarily highly selective, as in the case of the transcriptional repressor CoR or NotchIC binding to CSL (43), where binding reflects cellular concentrations; at the same time, cellular events reflect allosteric effects that amplify minor conformational changes, thus spelling higher selectivity. Cellular network descriptions should mirror both. Network modules have been featured from the topological standpoint (44,45). Recent work highlighted the relationship between protein conformational fluctuations and their “promiscuous functions” and how they can greatly facilitate the evolution of new functions. Such mechanisms have been delineated both experimentally (46) and theoretically(47). Phenomena described here further apply to the biological functions of protein disordered states where similar conformational principles apply (48,49). Here we suggest a mechanistic conformational level description where cellular processes consist of independent components governed by dynamically shifting populations. Such a description accounts for molecular level binding selectivity and incorporates the immense fluctuations in cellular conditions. It is based on a picture of molecules as dynamic conformational ensembles and at the same time explains how evolution minimizes errors in molecular recognition. Development increases functional complexity. We speculate that evolution faced the question of how to exert efficient response to the environment: engineer new control proteins or make use of the conformational space of existing ones? Developing new molecules is risky and slower, yet expanding existing ones is wasteful, requiring high concentrations with only some of the binding events being productive. To minimize the chance of errors, evolution nonetheless chose this route. The number of similar REs and similar PID partners increased dramatically (3,39,50,51), leading to numerous nonproductive binding events as in the case of the NR. However, at the same time, evolution embraced allostery: through environment-triggered conformational changes that lead to enhanced specificity, allosteric effects enforce an ordered sequence of events in multimolecular associations, leading to complex yet less error-prone structures as in the case of viral capsids. Allostery limits the conformational space of the association, reducing the chances of nonproductive associations inherent to diffusion-collision-type processes, thus offering advantageous solutions. We further note that our definition of function as binding that leads to specific subsequent events explains why interface design is so difficult: the binding should be such that it would elicit an allosteric transition culminating with (far away) binding sites that have “correct” conformations. To conclude, here we present a perspective of protein−DNA binding that suggests possible criteria that can be used to discriminate between functional and nonfunctional binding events. A key ingredient of the discriminant criteria is the presence of allosteric effects that are capable of enhancing the binding specificity in a function-oriented manner. Allostery plays a key role in determining whether a binding event is functional and the type of function (4,8,13,1520,52,53). This provides a new definition of function and as such of biophysical events that qualify as “functional”. This project has been funded in whole or in part with Federal funds from the National Cancer Institute, National Institutes of Health, under contract number HHSN261200800001E. 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Email updates Open Access Research article Between forwarding and mentoring: a qualitative study of recommending medical doctors for international postdoctoral research positions Dario Sambunjak* and Matko Marušić Author Affiliations 1Department for Research in Medicine and Healthcare, University of Split, School of Medicine, Split, Croatia For all author emails, please log on. BMC Medical Education 2011, 11:31 doi:10.1186/1472-6920-11-31 Received:9 December 2010 Accepted:9 June 2011 Published:9 June 2011 © 2011 Sambunjak and Marušić; licensee BioMed Central Ltd. Young scientists rarely have extensive international connections that could facilitate their mobility. They often rely on their doctoral supervisors and other senior academics, who use their networks to generate opportunities for young scientists to gain international experience and provide the initial trigger for an outward move. To explore the process of informal recommending of young physicians from a small country for postdoctoral research positions in foreign countries, we conducted in-depth interviews with eight senior academics who acted as recommenders and eight physicians who, based on the recommendations of senior academics, spent at least a year working in a laboratory abroad. Interviews were transcribed and analyzed by using the framework approach. The findings showed that recommending can take four distinct forms: 1) forwarding information, 2) passive recommending, 3) active recommending, and 4) mentor recommending. These forms differ in their level of commitment and mutual trust among actors, and possible control over the success of the process. Two groups of recommendees - 'naive' and 'experienced' - can be distinguished based on their previous scientific experience and research collaboration with the recommender. Crucial for the success of the process is an adequate preparation of recommendees' stay abroad, as well as their return and reintegration. The benefits of recommending extend beyond the individual participants to the scientific community and broader society of the sending country. With a sufficient level of commitment by the actors, informal recommending can be a part of or grow into an all-encompassing developmental relationship equal to mentoring. The importance of senior academics' informal contacts and recommendations in promoting junior scientists' mobility should be acknowledged and encouraged by the research institutions and universities, particularly in developing countries. Mobility is one of the key features of scientific careers. The universal nature of science and wide-spread use of English as the language of scientific communication allows people educated in one country to continue their career in another country. In academic communities, international mobility of teachers, researchers and students is considered a prerequisite for continuing participation and access to global science [1]. In many countries, a period of work in another country is necessary for the advancement in a scientific career [2]. The United States is an especially attractive receiving country, not only because of its superior scientific infrastructure and productivity [3], but also due to the regulations that make medical doctors eligible for the postdoctoral positions even without a PhD degree [4]. Young scientists, however, rarely have extensive international connections that could facilitate their mobility. They often rely on their doctoral supervisors and other senior academics, who use their networks to generate opportunities for young scientists to gain international experience and provide the initial trigger for an outward move [5]. Helping to establish connections and networks was found to be one of the important mentoring functions in academic medicine [6]. Melin found that only 15% of young Swedish researchers ('postdocs') who spent some time working abroad had got in contact with their host institution through their supervisor [7]. All participants in that study, however, were recipients of grants from Swedish organizations, which greatly enhanced their chances of independently choosing their 'postdoc' positions. The role of senior academics in connecting and recommending young researchers for a working or training position abroad may be even more important in smaller scientific communities, such as that in Croatia, where the resources for supporting early-career mobility of scientists are meager. Marušić gave a description and preliminary evaluation of a model of using personal and informal contacts to secure 'postdoc' positions for junior researchers [4]. Based on that model, a number of Croatian physicians during the last two decades was recommended and sent for a period of time to work abroad, mainly in the USA. Due to informal nature of this mobility scheme and sporadic recordkeeping in relation to it, the exact number of junior researchers who used this scheme is difficult to establish. Based on the published data [4] and unpublished communications, we estimate that the total count could be up to several hundred, which is a considerable number relative to the size of Croatian scientific community [8]. The aim of this study was to gain a deeper understanding of the process of recommending young medical doctors for a postdoctoral scientific training in foreign countries. The first group of participants were recommenders, defined as senior members of the Croatian academic medical community, who used their contacts and gave their recommendations to help young physicians obtain a scientific training abroad. The second group were recommendees, defined as Croatian physicians who got their scientific training abroad with the help of the recommenders. We used the snowball method to find the potential participants. To explore the broadest range of experiences possible, we conducted interviews with participants from each of the four medical schools in Croatia and included participants of both genders, from different areas of medicine (basic and clinical sciences), and of varying duration of experience in the role of recommender. We included as recommendees only medical doctors whose training abroad had been planned to be at least a year long. Data Collection Two separate interview guides were developed for recommenders and recommendees, based on three sources: 1) previous literature on mentoring and career mobility, 2) February 2007 online discussion on the investigated topic among Croatian scientists on the Connect Portal at webcite, and 3) pilot interviews with a recommender and a recommendee. Interview guides were designed to uncover two areas of interest: a) modes and dynamics of recommending and b) risks and benefits of recommending. Semi-structured interviews were conducted by the first author between 24 November 2008 and 31 March 2009, face-to-face, in home institutions of the participants, and were audio recorded for further transcription and analysis. Analysis and Ethics Approval Interviews were analyzed using the framework approach, which consists of familiarization with the data, identifying a thematic framework, indexing and charting of the data, and their final mapping and interpretation [9,10]. Visual displays were used to organize and interpret data [11]. The study was approved by the Ethics Committee at the University of Zagreb School of Medicine. All participants were informed about the purpose and the methods of the study and signed their written consent. Eight recommenders and eight recommendees were interviewed for this study. All of the recommenders were either associate or full professors; two were female; six worked in preclinical (basic sciences), and two in clinical research and practice. Seven recommendees did their scientific training in the United States and one in Germany; three were females. At the time of study, five were working in preclinical and three in clinical medicine; they went abroad between 1996 and 2004, and stayed there between four months (a participant who cut short his planned 1-year stay) and three years. At the time of leaving for international postdoctoral position, two participants had a substantial scientific experience, while others had either limited or no such experience. Modes and Dynamics of Recommending The findings show that the process of recommending occurs on four levels of intensity, involves two major groups of actors, and evolves in four phases. Levels of recommending Forwarding information On the most basic level, senior members of academic community only forward received information about available opportunities, places and scholarships for scientific training abroad. That is usually done by sending an e-mail to the contacts in the address book or posting the information on an institutional web page or forum. If the action remains on this level, no relationship is actually established between the senior scientist and the recommendee, so this can only conditionally be considered recommending. On this level senior scientists can reach a large number of potential recommendees, but they have little or no influence on the response or the quality of candidates and cannot assess the results of their action (Figure 1). thumbnailFigure 1. Levels of recommending. Mutual trust, commitment and control over success increase from the basic to the highest level, whereas risk of failure and number of possible recommendations increase from the highest to the basic level of recommending. At least once a week I get a mail in which a place [for research work or training] is offered. And then - what do I do? I scan over my address book, forward the mail to 20 or 50 other addresses and the story finishes there. (Recommender 1) Potential recommendees can use the information and end up in a foreign laboratory even without ever seeing the person who initially forwarded the mail. However, in order to apply for the position abroad, they need to obtain a written recommendation either from the person who forwarded the information or from another senior scientist. Passive recommending Candidates who want to use the forwarded information or have themselves found an opportunity for scientific training abroad need to approach a senior scientist or a faculty member who is willing to help them by writing a recommendation. This is the first level of recommending in which the two actors have personal contact, which is usually prompted by the potential recommendee. Many people have asked me to write them a recommendation for some position they found, either themselves or through someone else. (Recommender 2) The two sides do not have to know each other well, but a basic level of trust is necessary to allow the recommendee to ask for help and the recommender to give it (Figure 1). [Recommendee] decided for himself and wanted to go to Oxford; I wrote all the necessary recommendations for him. That means, he found the place himself, and I supported him in that... he came to me because he didn't have anyone else to approach. And he knew I had been [trained] abroad, so I would be appreciative. (Recommender 3) The interaction is in most cases one-off, meaning that after the initial contact and a short assessment of the candidate, which can also be based on the advice from another senior colleague scientist, recommenders write their recommendation, but the relationship does not continue or develop. Senior scientists can also refuse to give the recommendation if they judge the candidate unworthy. Active recommending On this level, recommenders actively seek appropriate candidates for an available scientific position abroad, and try to encourage and prepare them for such a move. [Recommender] contacted me and said that he has a place [abroad], gave me some basic information and asked me to think about it and make a decision within the next two weeks. And that, if I'm willing, this sounds to him as a good chance for some additional education and so on... (Recommendee 1) These candidates usually did not closely collaborate with recommenders, although their acquaintance can be long and established during the candidates' studies. The candidates were mostly recent medical graduates without much experience in either scientific or clinical work ('naive'). Active recommending can be a beginning of mentoring relationship, because it implies a greater level of commitment, responsibility and continuity of care. Mutual expectations are higher than on the previous levels of recommending and this, together with limited time and opportunities for preparation, can increase the risk of disappointment and failure in the process of recommending (Figure 1). Mentor recommending When there is a previous experience of research collaboration, recommending is a part of a mentoring relationship. The recommendee is 'experienced', usually works in the laboratory or institution of the recommender, their interaction is frequent and purposeful, and their mutual trust significant (Figure 1). I sent a couple of dozen people for training abroad... They were mostly people who somehow came into research-related contact with me. They were not always members of my immediate research group, but they were all a part of the broader research program through which I came into contact with them. (Recommender 4) In this type of relationship, preparation for work abroad is longer and more thorough, which reduces the chances of disappointment or failure (Figure 1). Personal experience of training abroad, intensive scientific activity, and motivation for recommending are the key features that characterize recommenders. A senior member of academic community must have an international reputation and active network of collaborators to be able to effectively place a younger researcher in a productive scientific group abroad. Sporadic short-term visits to foreign institutions are usually insufficient to build such a network. At our medical school we don't have many people who have a substantial experience in working abroad. Many people visited foreign institutions, spent a few days there, and that's all... But, that's nothing, you have to work somewhere in order to establish true contacts. (Recommender 3) Lower levels of recommending ('forwarding information' and 'passive recommending') do not imply a great effort or commitment on the part of recommender. But, higher levels ('active' and 'mentor' recommending) can be time- and energy-consuming, and require some personal involvement. Motivation for recommending can stem from the feeling of altruism, need to build up the capacity of one's own laboratory or the sense of duty. All these dissertations, these are all my [recommendees]... That makes me happy. (Recommender 5) There is a selfish component... One actually chooses, tries to get some high-quality people in one's own laboratory. (Recommender 1) As a project leader, you have the responsibility not only to complete the experiment and publish something, but also to bring up those young people... and make scientists out of them. (Recommender 6) Two groups of recommendees can be distinguished. One group, which we named 'experienced', consisted of physicians who went for a scientific training abroad after they had worked for several years in basic research or clinical medicine. They mostly had a secured job at a school of medicine or in a hospital, and their relationship with their recommender was usually on the level of mentorship. The other group, which we named 'naive', consisted of recent medical graduates or interns. At the time of going abroad they did not have much experience in either basic research or clinical medicine, and were also without a steady job. Their relationship with the recommender began with the act of recommending and was not initially on the level of mentoring. The most important characteristic of a potential recommendee is an intrinsic motivation for doing science and serious training abroad. Recommenders described this in words such as enthusiasm, interest, love for science, and ambition. [I'm looking for] that spark in the eye which is hard to define, but you can notice it in the people who are interested in science, who want to explore, pose questions. (Recommender 6) Other desirable characteristics are reliability, diligence, and willingness to sacrifice and accept critique. Recommendee should also have basic communication and social skills. Knowledge of English is advantageous, but not critically important, especially for 'naive' recommendees. The grade point average at the university can be an indication of these characteristics, but not all recommenders considered it as a valid proxy. If you are motivated and ready for sacrifice, then you'll learn. If you're an excellent student and graduate with the highest marks, and you're not ready for sacrifice, then you have a serious problem. (Recommender 7) There are some students with perfect grades, yet incapable of working [in laboratory]. They do not have enthusiasm. (Recommender 3) Whereas the desirable characteristics are basically the same in 'experienced' and 'naive' recommendees, the motivation for going abroad in these two groups can be quite different (Table 1). 'Experienced' recommendees specifically want to expand their scientific knowledge, skills, output and networks. 'Naive' recommendees are often driven by an immediate need to find a job or inspired by a challenge of working in a laboratory or living abroad. A prospect of academic advancement upon return to home country is a significant source of motivation for both groups of recommendees. Table 1. Differences in the process of recommending between the recommendees with the previous scientific or clinical experience and those without it Establishing connection In the first phase, which is short in duration, the two actors come into contact and establish a loose relationship. Recommendees are typically recruited among the final year undergraduates, research fellows, and physicians working in clinical medicine, mostly interns, more rarely residents and specialists. Recommenders continually try to instill their students with enthusiasm for science and, when they know of an open training position abroad, actively search for appropriate candidates. During my courses, I would always talk how I got my training in the USA, how students can do the same after graduation, and that I would help them. (Recommender 3) We announce [an open training position abroad] on the faculty council... Spread the word, observe the graduates... I forward the information, for example, through the institutional web pages. (Recommendee 2) Recommenders use different ways and approaches to reach out and find candidates for scientific career and working abroad. I put invitations on info boards at the schools of medicine, life sciences and veterinary medicine... Then some people come forward and I interview them... Actually, I'm fishing for good candidates. (Recommender 1) We announce [that we know of some open positions abroad] at the Faculty Council... Then, by word of mouth... (Recommender 8) Recommending relationships can also be initiated by the potential recommendee. In some cases, the connecting role is played by an intermediary person, usually a colleague of either recommender or recommendee. Period before going abroad The second phase is the period before going abroad, which is relatively short (e.g. several weeks) for 'naive' recommendees and much longer for 'experienced' recommendees, who may spend up to several years working in the institution or laboratory of the recommender. The 'naive' recommenders are usually catapulted to any research position abroad that urgently needs to be filled, after having been assessed by the recommender in one or two interviews, and without much preparation (Table 1). It is mostly a 'take it or leave it' offer by the recommender. The chance to go abroad came as a surprise... When we knocked at the recommender's door, we were told that there's no job here, but there is - there [in the United States]. (Recommendee 3) There was not much time for deliberation - 15 days, yes or no. Because they were looking for someone, they needed a person [in the foreign laboratory] and that's it. (Recommendee 4) The 'experienced' recommendees, on the other hand, were well prepared for their scientific training abroad. Longer research collaboration with recommenders allowed a thorough assessment of recommendees and enough time to select the most appropriate place or laboratory (Table 1). I have never recommended anyone who did not go through my 'filter', who did not work with me for at least a year... In that way I could get to know their characteristics... (Recommender 4) When it's about my assistants or collaborators, then I think deeply where I could send them. I talk with them, inquire about their long-term plans... (Recommender 1) On the levels of active and mentor recommendations, some expectations inevitably occur in this phase, and should be acknowledged and discussed. Recommenders in our study expressed four basic expectations from their recommendees: to accept the offer to go abroad, to eventually return to home country, to achieve some success, and to leave the position available for future candidates. On the other hand, recommendees expected that the recommended position abroad will be appropriate and suitable for their needs and capacities. Furthermore, they expected their recommenders will help them get a job upon the return to home country. A clear and sincere communication of recommendees' true motives and life plans allows recommenders to take an appropriate action. I tell them frankly - please, let me know what you want from your lives, so that I know how to handle your case, what to expect from you. Whether you plan to return or stay abroad. And if you will return, would you like to be in basic research or in clinical medicine. I can support any of these plans and desires, but I have to know clearly what I'm supporting. (Recommender 3) Period during the stay abroad The third phase is the stay in the laboratory abroad, during which the recommendee and recommender communicate with varying intensity, depending on the level of their previous collaboration (Table 1). Although recommenders feel responsibility for the success of the arrangement, their ability to monitor the progress of recommendees is limited. The two actors keep in contact through e-mails, phone calls and personal encounters during recommendees' holiday visits to home country. A timely announcement of recommendees' plans to return is crucial for their successful reintegration in the home country. The recommender has a responsibility to help with the return. That was basically a deal - to let them [recommenders] know when we decide to come back. (Recommendee 3) I tell them - I will do anything I can to help you find the position you want. I think this is a part of the whole story. (Recommender 3) Period after the stay abroad The fourth phase is the period after recommendees' return from abroad (Table 1). If their work there was productive, they can relatively quickly obtain their doctoral degree or establish their own research group. The support of recommender is especially important for the 'naive' recommendees who do not have any previously established professional connections in the home country. These young people who returned from the USA... would always want me to supervise their PhD thesis, because of several reasons: first, I knew the subject well enough, because I had worked on similar problems during my stay abroad; second, because they trusted me; and third, because they wanted a supervisor who would understand and accept the values and habits they had developed abroad. (Recommender 7) The relationship between the actors gradually changes from hierarchical (senior-junior) to collegial (peer). This happens more quickly with the 'experienced' recommendees. My recommender gave me the freedom here in our department to form my own group and develop independently. Now we function as partners. We consult about some important issues, sometimes even plan some collaborative projects or experiments. (Recommendee 5) If recommendees decide to stay and settle permanently in the host country, the fourth phase begins with their leaving the laboratory to which they were recommended, usually to go for a clinical specialization or, more rarely, to accept another scientific position abroad. Benefits and Risks of Recommending The primary beneficiaries of the recommending process are recommendees. During their stay abroad, they not only increase their scientific competencies and capacities through work and networking with other scientists, and obtain publications necessary for career advancement, but also go through the process of socialization and acquire the role of a scientist. The experience of living and working in a foreign country can also contribute to the personal growth. I think that the USA really teaches them life lessons. Not only in the strictly scientific sense... They become independent, they return as completely different persons, persons who know how to lead processes, who are responsible, who have their position in the world. (Recommender 7) Recommenders also increase their scientific capacity - directly if the recommendees return to their laboratory or institution, or indirectly if they stay in a foreign laboratory and continue their research collaboration with the home country. A history of successful recommendations can enhance the international reputation of recommenders and build their sense of personal accomplishment and contribution to broader society. My contacts abroad told me literally: we accept anyone you recommend - immediately, without a second thought. (Recommender 1) [By recommending], you direct the lives of recommendees in an important way and ultimately these people change our country for the better. (Recommender 7) A steady flux of highly motivated young researchers is a clear benefit for the laboratories abroad. Finally, there are benefits for the sending country's scientific community and the society as a whole. The process of recommending produces young researchers capable of working and competing on the global scientific market. They bring not only international connections and access to new resources, but also a well-developed work ethics and high personal standards of achievement, which can influence their social environment. Even if they stay abroad permanently, they can collaborate with scientists from their home country and ensure the continuation of the recommending process. Therefore, the risk of brain drain is only conditional. The major risk is related to recommendees who fail to demonstrate a basic level of responsibility and social competence during their stay abroad. One person was really asked to leave, after a month, or month and a half. Because he caused conflicts, offended other people, etc. Such persons can have a toxic effect... For example, to one foreign laboratory we cannot send any more people, we were told: thank you, but not thank you. Don't send us any more people. Because that one person made such a bad mark that they do not want anyone from our part of the world - for a long, long time. (Recommendee 6) There is also a specific risk of failure for 'naive' recommenders, who are under pressure to learn the science and laboratory work from the very beginning. Coupled with the challenges and allures of living in a foreign country, this pressure makes them a vulnerable group. The failure can manifest as an early and abrupt return to home country or negligible scientific output. Recommenders have a responsibility to realistically present the challenges and opportunities of working abroad, because 'naive' recommendees can easily develop misconceptions and unrealistic expectations. [Recommendees] were strongly impressed by the recommender, who may have unrealistically depicted the situation [abroad] as overly positive. Much more beneficial than it could ever be. (Recommendee 6) Senior members of academic community can help young physicians to obtain a working position in a foreign scientific laboratory through several forms of recommending, which differ in their level of commitment and control over the success. Two major groups of recommendees ('naive' and 'experienced') can be distinguished on the basis of their previous working experiences and research collaboration with the recommender. The benefits of the recommending process extend beyond the individual participants to the scientific community and society as a whole. In the context of increased mobility and demand for young scientists [12], but also of ever stronger competition on the global work market, the process of recommending can help in directing young physicians towards those places that will allow a rapid development of their scientific potentials. By active recommending, senior academics are detecting and mobilizing medical graduates or interns with a serious interest in a scientific career. This function has a great importance, as the majority of countries, particularly those more developed, are experiencing a decline in interest of young people in active involvement with science [13]. Benefits of working abroad accrue to all successful 'postdocs'. Fresh graduates and interns mostly constitute a group of 'naive' recommendees, who begin their education in science by working in a laboratory abroad. During that period, they not only 'learn the ropes' of research, but also produce data and results that allow them to obtain a PhD upon their return to home country. The head of the laboratory abroad, other co-workers, as well as the recommender can all take active part in a 'blended approach' to postgraduate supervision [14]. The process of recommending also contributes to the increase in proportion of successfully completed PhDs, which is relatively low in the countries of scientific periphery [15]. For the 'experienced' recommendees, a period of work in a high-profile foreign laboratory can greatly enhance their career perspectives. A careful selection of the most appropriate place abroad increases the chances of successful transition into autonomous postdoctoral research at a career stage that is particularly prone to attrition [16]. International experience can also bring some less tangible, but no less important benefits in terms of changes in recommendees' personal and professional attitudes [17]. Such changes can indirectly affect the scientific community, medical profession and the broad society in the sending country. Previous studies of highly-skilled workers' migration in transition countries such as Poland have also shown that repatriates contribute not only to the transfer of technology, but also bring with them new techniques of management, as well as a different attitude towards work and working hours, which may be described as a 'capitalist ethos of work' [18]. In post communist societies, which lack a tradition of market economy and democratic institutions, such contributions can have far-reaching consequences. However, the question remains whether the returned recommendees permanently retain the working ethos acquired during their stay abroad. Our study shows that higher levels of recommending ('active' and 'mentor') imply both finding a research position abroad and taking care that recommendees obtain an adequate job upon their return. This return-facilitating action was not only expected by recommendees, but also felt as a personal responsibility by recommenders. The key role of powerful patrons in securing academic positions for repatriated scientists has been found in some other countries, especially those where scientific opportunities are based more on connections than on transparent and meritocratic processes [2,19]. Recommending may therefore have a negative side-effect of perpetuating elements of corruption in the system of academic placements and promotions. The risk of 'brain drain' cannot be completely avoided in the process of recommending, especially when the sending countries have relatively good human resources and undergo an economic and developmental progress [20]. However, the alternative to international mobility is not a 'brain gain', but a stagnation or waste of human resources [21]. The most powerful push-factors for migration of Croatian research fellows are the lack of perspective and opportunities for scientific development in the home country [22], and the stay of these young researchers in their home country would in many cases result in their leaving science altogether. Without the active recommending, the group of 'naive' recommendees would probably never get involved in science at all. Recommending and subsequent moves to laboratories in foreign countries can attract and keep young people in scientific careers and bring some benefits to the home country regardless of whether the migrants eventually return or not. It has been observed that highly skilled migrants form 'intellectual diaspora networks' [23] which, if properly managed and harnessed, can be a powerful and useful asset for the sending countries [24]. The limitation of this study was that the sample did not include recommendees who have never returned to their home country. The sample was also limited only to the recommendees who had an experience of either active or mentor recommending. The dynamics of processes on the lower levels of recommending could be explored in future studies. The importance of senior academics' informal contacts and recommendations in promoting junior scientists' mobility should be acknowledged and encouraged by research institutions and universities, particularly in developing countries. Efforts should be made to allow an adequate preparation of recommendees for their stay abroad, but also for their timely return, reintegration and continuation of a scientific career in their home country. Very young recommendees without a previous scientific experience are especially vulnerable to the risks of the recommending process and require a special attention and ongoing support. With a sufficient level of commitment by the actors, recommending can be a part of or grow into an all-encompassing developmental relationship equal to mentoring. Competing interests The authors declare that they have no competing interests. Authors' contributions DS and MM designed the study. MM helped in identifying the study participants and organizing interviews. DS conducted and transcribed the interviews. DS and MM analyzed the data and drafted the manuscript. Both authors read and approved the final manuscript. Dario Sambunjak is financially supported by the Croatian Ministry of Science, Education and Sports (grant No. 216-1080314-0245 to Matko Marušić). 1. Mahroum S: The international policies of brain gain: A review. Technology Analysis and Strategic Management 2005, 17:219-230. Publisher Full Text OpenURL 2. Morano-Foadi S: Scientific mobility, career progression and excellence in the European Research Area. International Migration 2005, 43:133-162. 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Bencetić Klaić Z, Klaić B: Croatian scientific publications in top journals according to the Science Citation Index for the 1980-2000 period. Scientometrics 2004, 61:221-251. OpenURL 9. Ritchie J, Lewis J: Qualitative research practice: A guide for social science students and researchers. London: Sage; 2003. OpenURL 11. Miles MB, Huberman AM: Qualitative data analysis. Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage; 1994. OpenURL 12. European Commission: [] webcite Europe needs more scientists: Report by the high level group on increasing human resources for science and technology in Europe. Bruxelles: European Commission; 2004. (Accessed 26.10.2010.) 13. Sjøberg S, Schreiner C: How do learners in different cultures relate to science and technology? APFSLT: Asia-Pacific Forum on Science Learning and Teaching 2006, 6:2-17. OpenURL 14. de Beer M, Mason RB: Using a blended approach to facilitate postgraduate supervision. Innovations in Education and Teaching International 2009, 46:213-226. Publisher Full Text OpenURL 15. Petrovečki M, Smiljanić L, Trošelj M, Polašek O: Employment outcomes among junior researchers in medicine in Croatia. Croat Med J 2008, 49:91-97. PubMed Abstract \| Publisher Full Text \| PubMed Central Full Text OpenURL 16. Ackers L, Gill B, Coldron KA, Oliver EA: [http:/ / departments/ gradschool/ about/ role/ external/ publicat ions/ salaries-and-stipends.pdf ] webcite Assessing the impact of the Roberts' review enhanced stipends and salaries on postgraduate and postdoctoral positions. Swindon: Research Councils UK; 2006. (Accessed: 26.10.2010.) PubMed Abstract \| Publisher Full Text OpenURL 17. Hamza A: International experience an opportunity for professional development in higher education. Journal of Studies in International Education 2010, 14:50-69. Publisher Full Text OpenURL 18. Korys I: [] webcite Migration trends in selected EU applicant countries: Poland (CEFMR Working Paper No 5. Warsaw: CEFMR; 2003. (Accessed: 26.10.2010.) 19. Morano-Foadi S: Academic scientific careers in Italy (CSLPE Research Report No 16). Leeds: CSLPE, University of Leeds; 2004. OpenURL 20. Arah OA, Ogbu UC, Okeke CE: Too poor to leave, too rich to stay: Developmental and global health correlates of physician migration to the United States, Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom. Am J Public Health 2008, 98:148-154. PubMed Abstract \| Publisher Full Text \| PubMed Central Full Text OpenURL 21. Ackers L: Promoting scientific mobility and balanced growth in the European research area. Innovation: The European Journal of Social Sciences 2005, 18:301-317. Publisher Full Text OpenURL 22. Adamović M, Mežnarić S: Potential and real 'drain' of junior scientists from Croatia: An empirical study [In Croatian]. Revija za Sociologiju 2003, 34:143-160. OpenURL 23. Meyer JB: Network approach versus brain drain: lessons from the Diaspora. Int Migr 2001, 39:91-110. Publisher Full Text OpenURL 24. 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Columns \| May 22, 2009 19:23 What baby names can tell you about chess openings Baby names and chess openingsIf you have kids, you've probably thought hard about how to name your child. Should you choose a 'special' kind of name, or rather a very trendy or well-known one? Popularity is an important aspect when it comes to choosing virtually anything. The same goes for chess openings: do you want to go for popular main lines or for 'off beat' variations? Both options come with their own advantages and disadvantages. A trendy baby name may suggest a popular baby - and trendy parents - but a special name will suggest a special child. Likewise, playing a trendy chess opening will imply theoretical knowledge and opting for an obscure variation will suggest more independence and creativity. A lot has been written about the popularity of baby names (see, for example, the chapter 'What's in a name' in Steven Pinker's recent book The Stuff of Thought and the chapter 'Would a Roshanda by any other name smell as sweet' in the book Freakonomics by Levitt and Dubner). But why do baby names (and chess openings) start to lose their popularity at some point? Is it merely that more and more people become 'fed up' with it, or is there more going on? Recent research in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (May 2009) on baby names suggests a solution: the rate at which a cultural trend becomes popular, is also indicative of its decline. As one Scienceblogs article on the research put it: "the faster the rise to prominence, the steeper the fall from grace." The researchers, Jonah Berger and Gael Le Mens, looked at the changing popularities of first names in France and the USA over the last 100 years. They found that parents were less inclined to give their children names that had become very popular very fast, regardless of the overall popularity of these names. The names Tricia and Krisi, for example, became very popular very fast in the 60s, and lost their appeal in the 70s equally quickly, whereas the name Charlene slowly gained in popularity and also declined much slower than Tricia and Kristi. The reason? "Fads are perceived negatively, so people avoid identity-relevant items with sharply increasing popularity because they believe that they will be short lived." Of course, chess openings are much more than just a cultural trend. In chess, unlike fashion, popularity is not merely subjective - it's also highly objective: a losing line won't be played much. That's why nobody plays the Damiano Defence (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6?) these days. A 'hard refutation' can simply kill a chess line's popularity instantly. But what about lines that are not known to be refuted, or even known to be inferior? Might their popularity also be dependent on the idea that they might be 'short lived'? I have always wondered whether adopting a particular variation isn't also part of one's image. Apart from any objectivity - isn't it cool to play popular lines? I realize this is a different point of view that most chess players will think of. They will, of course, accept that chess lines are subject to change in popularity, but my guess is they will try to analyse this change in terms of chess theoretical developments: novelties, strong players starting to experiment with the line, matches being played with it, etc. Indeed, in a recent discussion on this site, many posters gave reasons for why certain openings fluctuated in popularity over time. But these were all reasons to do with chess. In this article, I want to see if there are other reasons for adopoting a particular line or not. I want to raise the possibility that chess openings, like baby names, can be a cultural trend, subject to sociological and psychological forces. Take, for instance, the 7...Qc7 line of the Winawer variation of the French Defence, a pretty cool and exciting line which I have analysed myself a lot of times: French WinawerIn a recent issue of ChessVibes Openings, Merijn van Delft and Robert Ris noted that this line became increasingly inpopular in the 90s, even though nobody seemed to know why. In top grandmaster games, Black was usually fine after the opening, and Black even seemed to score better than usual with this line. But all of sudden, Black players just switched to 7...0-0 without an apparent reason. (Now, by the way, 7...Qc7 seems to be back on the scene.) What was going on? If the reasons for the change couldn't be related to particular objective developments such as games or novelties, maybe there were other, more subjective different reasons. I found myself wondering whether Berger and Le Mens' conclusions also played a role in the popularity decline of this particular variation. Could the mere speed with which the variation became popular be of influence to its eventual decline? To test this, I decided to do a little research of my own. In ChessBase MegaBase 2008, I counted all games in which the diagrammed position occurred between 1980 and 2004 over a reperiod of 5 years. For instance, in the period 1980-1984, the position occurred in 47 out of 96230 games, i.e. 0,048%. In 2000-2004, the position occurred in 737 out of 1173157 games, i.e. 0,062%, and so on. To make sure I hadn't overlooked some kind of 'refutation' of the line, I also checked the score results of these games, but I didn't find any strange results compared to the overall results of chess games in this period. (The average was around 54% for White.) This was the easy part. Chess databases are a real gold mine for this kind of research, actually, but the problems only start here. One important question is: how to measure the popularity of a particular opening variation? First, I decided that it would be best to take all Qc7-Winawer games played - not only the ones played by grandmasters or titled players. This may be surprising to some readers, but I believe I had good reasons for it: 1. the number (N) of games would be bigger, and thus more likely to say anything significant; 2. there is no reason to assume that the popularity of a line doesn't go beyond the top level of chess players; 3. Berger and Le Mens research also didn't exclude particular groups or classes of people; and, most importantly, 4. because including all games in the sample rules out the possibility that a certain small group of players (namely, the elite) simply became bored with it or couldn't surprise their (also elite) opponents with it anymore. Thus, the popularity of the line (P) in a particular period would simply be defined as the percentage of games played with that line of all the games played. By comparing periods, something could be said about the rate of decline and increase of popularity over time. (One possible problem with this method is that comparing different time periods may not be such a straightforward task in chess databases, since these databases contain vastly more games, and by weaker players on average, for later periods due to the rise of digital game storage and the internet.) I must confess I was pretty excited when I starting counting and found that in the period 1980-1990 (a period for which I recalled the Winawer becoming more and more popular), the popularity of the Winawer variation indeed seemed to increase slowly but steadily until around 1986. In 1980, P was 0,006%, in 1986 it had gone up to 0,019%. But in 1987 it suddenly took flight: P for 1987 was 0,028%, for 1988 it was 0,038% and in 1989 it had grown to 0,042%. Within a three year's period, the popularity of the Winawer had more than doubled! And then, in 1990, the popularity of the Winawer suddenly sunk back to 0,017%. Here are the results in a graph: Winawer popularity Sure enough, these data seem to support the conclusions of the baby name research. Here, too, we see a sharp decline in popularity right after a sharp increase in the preceding period. After that, the variation has never again been as popular as it was then. But as usual, doubt soon crept in. Even assuming the results of the opening (on top level) didn't affect the overall popularity of the variation (if anything, the variation scored better in the 5 year period right after it was abandoned), what did the data tell me, exactly? In the baby name research, the popularity of a name was measured in comparison to the popularity of other baby names. But my little research didn't say anything about other opening lines (such as the Rubinstein French, or indeed the Sicilian). To be able to draw any conclusions, I had to include other opening lines in my data as well. As co-editor Merijn van Delft pointed out to me recently, you can't measure the popularity of the 6.Be3 Najdorf without taking into account the status of the Poisoned Pawn variation, which arises after 6.Bg5! It soon became clear that this would be an enormous amount of work - interesting work which, regrettably, has to wait until further notice. But even so, I think it's definitely possible that in the Winawer's case, something similar like baby naming has occurred. Of course, my data does not say anything about the reason of the Winawer's sudden decline, but what the data does show, in my opinion, is that the 'sharp peak' phenomenon can also occur in the choice of chess openings in principle. I'm sure it can also be shown that there are variations that gain in popularity slowly, and then again decline slowly as well, but that's not the point. Further research is necessary to validate the hypothesis that the baby name effect is present in chess, too. Berger and Le Mens speculate that marketing and technology play possibly play important roles in cultural extinctions, and the same could be true of the Winawer, especially with the rise of computer chess around 1990. But as the author of the hyperlinked Scienceblog article remarks: [T]heir work suggests that regardless of these external influences, newly popular items are swayed by internal forces that limit their own stay at the top. They predict that these effects should be much stronger in areas like names, where cultural tastes are used to communicate our identity. The clothes we wear, the cars we drive and the gadgets we flaunt would fall into this category too, while our choice of refrigerator or bathroom tiles might not. But does our personal choice of chess openings 'communicate our identity'? I think it does - on all levels. I've always wondered whether Morozevich's or Nakamura's choices to play obscure openings weren't partly a way to create some kind of 'rebel image' that could serve them well - both in terms of more invitations and in terms of popularity among amateurs. On a more down-to-earth level, I myself remember how hip I thought I was when I started playing the King's Indian, following in the footsteps of my hero Kasparov. Other chess players that I know think it's particularly cool to play lines that nobody else plays. In my local chess club, there are even people who dismiss other players merely for the openings they play. I used to be a fan of the hardcore thrash metal band Slayer. Everybody else I knew hated their music - for some reason, it felt great. In the same way, there may be more to the popularity of chess openings than just their correctness. Jonah Berger and Ga?´l Le Mens (2009). How adoption speed affects the abandonment of cultural tastes Proceedings of the National Acedemy of Sciences Arne Moll's picture Author: Arne Moll guitarspider's picture Great article! Matthijs's picture Good article, you might be right! alfiler's picture Players do not only want to surprise the opponent. They also want not to be surprised by them. The more popular one line has become, the more chances that you opponent knows a lot about it (well, at least more than you) and then you choose a sideway to avoid it. Then, it becomes mass behaviour, with the popularity of the line fading away as a result. Jens Kristiansen's picture Thx, Arne - once again an interesting and intriguing subject you are dealing with in a most informative and challening way. I have just read the article and will have to ponder a little more about it, and most likely I will be back to join the discussion with more substantial points of view. But here some questions/thoughts that immidiately spring to my mind: 1) The decline of the Winawer in the start-90es could also come from players AVOIDING it by, most of all, playing 3.Nd2. A little survey on this in the databases should not be difficult. 2) Your quantitive investigations are based on the position in the diagram - am I right? Around 1990 the line after 7.-,0-0 was quite popular I remember. Intuitively I would say far more popular than 7.-,Qc7. But soon new sharp ways of conducting whites attack were discovered. That leading to players falling back from the line could easily be investigated too. 3) The late 80es till start 90es were really some transition years when it comes to chess preparation methods -and in many other in many other, over all cultural, poltical and sociological ways, some of of them which had a huge impact on chess. I am especially referring to the collapes of the socialist world. At that time many players, including me, simply started avoiding heavily analysed, sharp lines. 4) One crucial factor in the developement of chess lines I guess you are leaving out, namely the correpondance games, usually not (for some reason) included in the databases. Especially in the sharp Winaver after 8.Qxg7!? I believe some such games in the 90es were highly important for the development of new ways to handle the positions for black. 5) Could be it is also time for some qualitative investigastions by interviewing strong players about their incentitives to fall back from or employ some lines in question. Actually you can find many written and/or oral accounts on that here and there from the masters themselves. Personally I can refer to a lot of such from Bent Larsen. Maybe we will come back to that. Any master accounts on their relationship to the Winaver? Arne Moll's picture @JC, I do think surprise value is an important aspect in this, but it can hardly be the only explanation for such an overall rapid decline, don't you think? And since correctness also isn't likely to be that reason either (at least I haven't found any reasons to think so), I think cultural factors ('the faster the rise to prominence, the steeper the fall from grace'), as suggested by the baby research, may well have played an important role in this case. @Thomas, Alexander: I think it's way too early to say anything about the the Nxf7 variation. Anyway, that line might be a case where one or two games (or its subsequent analysis) really did decide its popularity - contrary to the Winawer. @Jens: Can't wait! Concerning your points 1 and 2: yes, absolutely. This is what I meant when I wrote it's so hard to do research (and say something meaningful) on a single variation! JC's picture Interesting thoughts, but the lack of concrete developments in the line don't necessarily make the trend a cultural/psychological one. The change in popularity of the line can easily be a function of its current popularity for objective reasons: the more popular a line has become, the less likely it is to surprise an opponent. Moreover, the faster a line gains in popularity, the more likely the rise will be clear to players - and consequently, the more likely that they will be aware that it's no longer a surprise after a while. That's not to say that there isn't any purely cultural/psychological influence - just that popularity trends certainly don't demonstrate it. In both baby-names and chess openings, it appears that change in popularity can be a function of current popularity. That's no evidence at all that this relationship exists for the same reasons in both cases. I don't see how you'd isolate the perceived 'fadishness' of a line from the perceived likelihood of an opponent's familiarity with it. Jens Kristiansen's picture Thx, Arne, for one more fine article dealing with interesting and intriguing subjects, and in a most informative and challenging way. But I can not really follow you in your babyname analogy, which perhaps in a broader way should be phrased as a "fashion-analogy". Our choice of openning is mainly done from what works for us, meaning what provide us with decent results in the games. But, of course, when we do make these choices, we will be mainly aware of the opennings actually played around us at present and mostly choose from them. But from that you can not at all deduce that players in general at a time will fall back from using opennings that are "too" popular, as these Berger and Le Mens seem to have observed concerning names. But, In some ways I agree that choice of opennings "...can be a cultural trend, subject to sociological and psychological forces.". Playing chess is also a way of expressing yourself, and as such deeply rooted in the players identity - how he objectivises himself. And it seems that some players identity simply urges them to go against the trends at present. Need I remind you of my great compatriot, Bent Larsen? But, I can tell you for sure, Bent would not have developed this attitude if it did not worked form him by providing great results. However, if we still keep it to the chessrelated factors, here are some immidiate questions/thoughts that sprang to my mind while reading the article: 1) The decline in the ussage of the Winaver observed could also come from whiteplayers wanting to AVOID it, mostly probably by playing 3.Nd2. That should be easy to investigate via the databases. (3.e5 also experienced a kind of rennaisance at that time). 2) As I understand it, Arne, your quantitative invistigation was based on the position in the diagram after 7.-,Qc7, am I right? Ok, but, as far as I remember, around 1990 the move 7.-,0-0 was very popular and I would assume it was played far more often than Qc7. After whiteplayers developed some new ways of dealing with the kings attack, it vanished out, even though it still emerges now and then. So, 7.-,Qc7 was not at all a hot issue in these days, acutally there must already in the 80es have been some lines keeping people off it. 3) There is another important factor in the development of chess lines that you/we have not dealt with so far in this discussion: The correspondance games, which for some reasons rarely are included in the databases. I believe that some such games had a heavy impact on exactly blacks ressources in the line in question, especially on the sharp lines after 8.Qxg7. 4) The time around 1990 was really a time of transition. In the overall cultural and political sense this was mainly due to the collapse of the socialist part of the world. This also had a huge impact on chess life in all its aspects. In chess in these years you saw an immensely qualitative and quantitative broadening of the methods for preparations. For that reason some, and not that few, players, including me, also began to fall back from employing heavily analysed, sharp and "trendy" lines. That could also mean that the period you are investigating, Arne, in some ways are abnormal. 5) It could be that we should do some qualitative investigations on all this, fi. by interviewing some masters on their incentitives to abbandon or employ centain lines/opennings. Acutally you can find a lot of accounts from masters on this here and there. if you just look for it. Personally I am able to refer to a lot from Bent Larsen, both written and orally. And maybe someone can find some master accounts one their relationship to the Winaver? Alexander's picture I agree with JC. One point more is that the players are not only no longer able to surprise the opponent, but are also justified in the belief that their opponent might have a strong novelty prepared in that line. It is never a good thing going into an opening you are most certain your opponent had prepared for (since it is that popular); prudence is therefore one of the possible reasons for the quick fall of the Winawer popularity. This is especially so because this particular line is a very tactical one. One can easily imagine it (unlike let's say Najdorf or Ruy Lopez, which are played at a constant rate) being refuted. Alexander's picture One more thing: a fine example of this phenomenon is Topalov's famous sacrifice 12. Nxf7 in the Anti-Moscow. Even though the line is far from decided, there were only one game at a high level in this variation (Timman played it the very next day in a good faith Ljubojevi? didn't have time to analize it). People are unwilling to play it because they have a good reason to believe their opponent had found a way to refute it; thus the sudden fall of its popularity. Thomas's picture 12. Nf7: is taking things one step further, it is one possible move within the still popular anti-Moscow variation. And while there was one more game (Shirov-Karjakin, Aerosvit 2008, 1/2), it may well be that the knight sacrifice is not completely correct and thus essentially a "one-game novelty". A related story is Anand's 14.-Bb7 against Kramnik in the Meran. Here I also haven't seen follow-up games, but in this case it may well be that white players tend to avoid it. Jens Kristiansen's picture Well, Arne, we can not have that, so here I am again: I can not really follow you in your babyname-analogy, which maybe should be broadened and phrased "fashion-analogy". Of course, quite offently you use expressions as "fashionable lines" aso., but this "fashion"-phenomena in chess can not at all be paralleled to "fashion" in commercial branches like clothes, drinks, food, music etc.. In the later there is a striving from both the consumers and the manufactorers to have and provide something NEW just because it is new. Chess players mainly make their choiches of opennings from what works for them by producing good results. Chess is a sport and the bottom line is the end score, and from it most motives are derived. But, in some sens, I also believe that chess style and there by openning choices "...can be a cultural trend, subject to sociological and psychological forces", as Arne put it. Some times, especially in these years, I really think I observe a kind of "semi-bourgeois" trend in chess style, looking too much for safety and believing too much in authorities. On the other hand, I also know of chess players, who live a seemingly deeply boring middleclass life, but at the chess board shines with a fierce and risky attacking style - maybe as a reaction? And then there is the (could be psychological) question of selfidentity. Some players simply do not want to play like the majority, to follow "fashion", so to say, and some admirable persons fortunately also do not wan to in real life! Do I have to remind you of my great compatriot, Bent Larsen? But, I can assure you, Bent would not consciously have developed that attitude, if it did not also provided him with great results. But all this is quite elusive and difficult to grasp, I guess you can only speculate... Some more, chess related, remarks on your investigation, Arne: As i wrote, the years 1990 was a period with deep and broad transitions, also in chess. It could be that these years were abnormal, compared to years before and after. And maybe matters were only settled in the beginning of this century, where almost anyone a little serious about chess now have access to the internet, large databases and strong computerprograms. About the Winaver: It could also be - and I believe I remember it as such - that many whiteplayers at that time fell back from 7.Qg4 in favour of 7.Nf3, not because of 7.-,Qc7 but the heavily analysed 7.-,0-0. An at last - so far? - one account from Bent Larsen: In the mid-80es I asked him why he did not play the Dutch any longer: "No, it has become too popular. They know it too well. You know, Jens, some times I can only get a draw with it...." Jens Kristiansen's picture What is this? Suddenly TWO comments from me? Well, I have recently installed Explorer8 and have had some strange experiences with such board messages not coming through amo.. I usually make a draft of my comments, so I submitted it several times, after a little extra editing. But now it seems that there is at least one superfluous comment from me. Sorry for that, folks Castro's picture Very interesting and laborious article! Very nice ideas, though it can indeed be a very complicated matter. Anyway, congratulations for the result, but also for the courage to entering a maybe not very well rewarding issue, at least in terms of bold, strong, conclusions. I dont have time to study this problem deeply, but allow me to just point that baby names tendencies may share, here and there, some characteristics with the trendy choice of openings, but the latter biggest basis is that of (subjective perception of) "efectiviness", in something very linear and strightforward: winning games. You can't replicate that in human names, unless you believe in some mysticism about it (To be rich, it's good to be called Nelson, for instance). Of course in chess you also have "mystic" ways of playing openings. For instance that of believing in opening a game based solely on surprise, or solely on what Carlsen is playing, etc., as trustable methods... As I don't have the time to go deeper in that interesting subject you brought, let me ask you if you'd agree with me in a, for me, more atainable (but surely not so generaly interesting) issue, which is secundary in your article, I understand: That of the Damiano Defense. I don't play that defense, as it looks too dangerous for black, as to my human knowleage is concerned. But don't you agree it's incorrect to call it "hard-refuted"? If I recall correctly, the only thing refuted there is the variation 3.Nxe5 fxe5?, and it was Damiano himself who showed the refutation! The opening bears his name, but he just presented it, alongside the refutation of one of the posible sequences. As for chess as a two-players game of complete information (as it is, in mathematical Game Theory), it's even posible for us to discover in the future that it would be the best defense for black! So, your question mark to 3. ... f6 may turn into "!", right? Being (not yet?) realy refuted, and chess's optimal strategy (as it must have)being not yet known to us, we're just bond to our limitations and experience. But, as all advances in chess theory (in some measure), such an incredible discovery would simply being breaking our previous experience. Even the computers have to rely on that human experience and in strong calculating powers, for the time being, and not on endgame databases (as it is already the case for checkers). I don't know if you're aware of that, but do you know it is even posible that the game of chess is a zugzwang for white, and so (with the best play) the black would have a forced win? In that anti-nowadays-human-experience scenario, maybe even the Damiano is (one of) the way(s) to go! And even out of that scenario, it could be proved that the Damiano is a draw or a loss, but the most tenacious defense anyway. This I think is true, as long as any opening, or variation, is not realy refuted, rather than simply dificult for us to play, or unpopular! What do you think? Arne Moll's picture Jens, of course results are important, but I think you may be overestimating that point of view. For non-professional chess players, the cultural factors may be more important. (Yet another reason not to focus on top level games only!) For instance, I have absolutely no idea what my own white score against the Sicilian is, nor do I much care. I just like the play that arises after it, and I also think it's pretty cool to play 1.e4. I think playing 1.e4 is also an image statement for me, in the sense that it sends the message that I am someone who doesn't back down from a theoretical or sharp fight and therefore am not to be messed with! To me, this doesn't sound too far from the idea of calling your son 'Storm' as some parents seem to like. @Castro, you're right for many openings, but surely not the Damiano opening, unless just about all our basic assumptions about chess (power of central pawns, rapid piece development, weakened kingside, early queen moves) turn out to be wrong. Thomas's picture Along the lines suggested by Jens, a complete assessment of the Winawer would have to include the popular ups and downs of the various earlier deviations, hence the variation tree would look about as follows: 1.e4 e6 (1.-e5, 1.-c5, ...) 2.d4 (2.Qe2!? :) ) d5 3. Nc3 (3.Nd2, 3.e5) Bb4 (3.-Nf6, 3.-de4:) 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bc3: 6.bc3: Ne7 7.Qg4 (7.Nf3, 7.a4) Qc7 (7.-0-0). This may be incomplete - both because I didn't mention (most) offbeat continuations, and because my theoretical knowledge is patchy (myself, I play 3.Nd2). And such an investigation would be more work and might result in a confusing series of graphs ... . Regarding Bent Larsen, I would say there are several types of strong player when it comes to opening practice (and philosophy!?): - those who - successfully - play their own stuff, which is hardly copied by others (of course Jens would know much better than me how Larsen's choices affected openings by other Danish players!). "Modern analogues" may include Ivanchuk and Morozevich. - those who follow popular lines and refine their theory (should I put Topalov here concerning the Najdorf?) - those who play new openings, or rather revive old and semi-forgotten ones, which are then also played by their colleagues. Oddly (for some), I would put Kramnik in this box: (Petroff), Berlin Wall, Catalan, ... . And this is my answer to those arguing that "Kramnik is a boring player, he does not play the Najdorf". @Arne Moll: I agree with you regarding the Damiano, but there are numerous exceptions from the 'basic assumptions about chess' you mention, though not as early as move 2. For example, early queen moves: 7.-Qb6 against the 6.Bg5 Najdorf violates basic rules, but seems justified basd on three arguments: - it cannot be refuted - it wins a pawn - it limit's white's subsequent options (castling long is no longer an option). Jens Kristiansen's picture Now this discussion is already sticking in several directions, each of them quite interesting - could be the basis of at least four different discussion fora. But as the starting point is Arnes article, I think we should stick to his ideas/points of views. Yes, I do believe that the development of a chess players "style" is deeply embedded in cultural and psychological factors. It also developes from the inspiration from other players - you could call this "chess-sociological" factors. As strong, professional players engage more in the game and also,have stronger motives regarding the results, the later factor has more bearing on their style. So, it is quite evident that, as Arne put it, "... For non-professional chess players, the cultural factors may be more important.". But I still can not follow the babyname-analogy. Perhaps more suitable would be an analogy with styles of clothing? Your clothes is also some signal about who you are, and I guess we are all a little bit aware of that - at least we are aware of what clothes we will NOT wear! Ok, if we limit the research object to, say "Openning choices by non-professional players" and we set up the thesis that they are deeply influenced by cultural and psychological factors, we will not get far only by quantitative investigations. We will have to use the qualitative methods developed in the humanistic sciences, especially in antropology/etnographics. That may sound pompous, but it is not that difficult. We are all participants in chess life, and as such we can also regard ourselves as some kind of "field workers" doing "participant observations". There has already been referred to a few of such in this discussion. Let us have some more of them. And THEN we may put up some more elaborate hypothesis, which maybe could be supported by some quantitave investigations. Castro's picture Yes, I agree that finding out that the Damiano was, after all, a good defense, would be a huge shock to our actual chess knowleage, but it's not a posibility we should dismiss! Even within our secular chess experience, we have already lots of modern variations which shocked and reformulated previous assumptions. For instance, we already "accept" Shevievnikov's and Grunfeld's centers, something unbelievable one century ago... The simple fact that the game could be found out to be a forced win for black --- even if it deeply shock our experience-based intuition and way of play --- show us (as chess should already taugh us) that everything is posible until some definitive proof (as a real refutation is). I find very amusing those incredible posibilities, like the one of some future clasification of the move 2. ... f6 as "unica mossa" (only move). I think Breyer would rejoice too :-) Arne Moll's picture Indeed, Castro. By the way, A couple of years ago I wrote an article about this very subject, you can read it here. (The english version can be read below the Dutch one.) @Jens, in the scienceblogs article I mentioned, the clothing style analogy is also mentioned. I agree that qualitative research is also needed. There is so much potential for research in chess, but it's hardly being done, I'm afraid. Castro's picture Interesting poins of view, on that other article, indeed. Those are the things we were talking about. Just two remarks: - The computer's role could be exagerated. It coult be absolutely necesary for the game to be solved, but we don't know that. In fact, the solution of chess (as a 2-players, complete information game, in game theory) could be reached by some human deductive proof only. Or not. We don't know yet. - The analogy with the universe is other exageration, even on the narrow frame it is given. The game of chess we know is finite and has, in fact, a solution. We're merely barred from it, for the time being. Checkers was on that state some years ago. As for the Universe... :-) We don't have reasons to believe we could get out of the "middle-size" prision ever (without becoming gods hehehe). Jens Kristiansen's picture Well, this discussion is really springing back and forth between "minor-", "middle-" and "mega-size"-questions :). On the later I think that some of you are on the way into mysticism. We - the humans - do know and comprehend something - and we are the only creatures around who do, as far as we know. We do know and comprehend something about quantum mechanics. Otherwise I would not have my laptop and would not be able to communicate with you in this way. We do know and comprehend something about chess. From that we can also, by induction, not deduction, grasp something about the "big" solutions. That has already been done by some of the greatest when it comes to pure chess investigations. Fi. Troitsky with his old analysis and conclusions on the endgame K+N+N against K+P. In our time the tablebases have overall verified his conclusions. From what I know and comprehend about chess, and by pure induction, I will stand up for the view that the Damiano-defence will not be included in the BIG solution, meaning it should be "correct" and leads to draw (or a win). I am ready to bet on that, but that seems rather futile :). By the way, it has been mathematical proven, by deduction, that chess HAS a solution. Thats all... And more thing: What Dawkins, Feynman and the other great minds are refering to is the limits of human perception, as developed from adaptation to the environment. They exactly understand something about these matters, because it is a continuously obstacle in their research. Fortunately some human minds have been able to - step by step - push our recognition beyound these limits. And this proces goes on and on. Hats off for we the humans! Castro's picture @Jens Kristiansen It is no greater mysticism betting one way rather than the other way around, on not yet solved issues. So, good or bad Damiano defense (by the way, the defense that Damiano himself considered the worse available to 2.Nf3) are both futile bets. But we humans take pleasure on futile things too :-) As for Troitsky's researches on KNN vs. KP, it realy is no great surprise that the computers confirmed him. He was a genious and a very dedicated chess composer, and that endgame is difficult, but not that difficult for such a man to dominate completely. But there are lots of chess problems where human assumptions were refuted by means of the computer, and sometimes for our big surprise! As for chess having solution, yes, I told that before, and it's something common to all finite, complete information games. I believe that the solution is about to be discovered (with or without computers). Finaly, just stressing that (almost by definition!) one of the usual "limits of human perception" is what we can call "ilusion". Even if one recognise human efforts in pushing those limits, and like to think "this proces goes on and on", there will always be issues where this linearity is useless and just human-consoling, until the answer comes as a shock, shattering all our assumptions, and from some completely different way. Castro's picture By the way, an amusing (even beautiful) game involving two 19th century Russia greats and featuring the infamous Damiano Defense (even if the great Chigorin missed a great combination twice!): Emmanuel Schiffers vs Mikhail Chigorin 1/2-1/2 (Petersburg, 1897) Hope it's ok to put the link: Arne Moll's picture Castro, perhaps that opening choice of Chigorin can indeed be compared to clothing style: the concept of jeans with deliberate holes in them, just to show others that you don't care about them... ;-) Thomas's picture I have never heard of Schiffers before, but acirce in the comments on Chessgames says that he was #18 on the 1897 "Chessmetrics list". Still, I think that 'present-day GM's could at most play the Damiano in blitz or simul games against much weaker opponents (if they have a certain sense of humor and don't care that much about the result ...). Related, but less obviously bad: A Dutch IM (guess who?) once played 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Qe7 against me in a blitz game. He eventually won a crazy game - I think this was mostly due to the ~500 points rating difference, but he told me afterwards that he had also beaten Nigel Short in a rapid game with the same opening. On Arne's clothing analogy: "Jeans with deliberate holes" may also reflect the desire to be part of a maverick group. Here, a chessic equivalent might be the disciples of the Blackmar-Diemer gambit !? Arne Moll's picture The huge difference between 2...f6 and 2...Qe7 is that the latter doesn't weaken anything. Black can keep the position closed and his king safe. In the Damiano, he doesn't get anything in return for the weakened kingside (e5 isn't even protected by f6!). That's why 2..f6 is really bad and 2..Qe7, like Chigorin's 2.Qe2, is really not so bad. Thomas's picture I agree that 2.-f6 is simply bad - maybe Castro also agrees, but enjoys being provocative!? But I think there is a difference between 2.Qe2 and 2.-Qe7. For white, the odd queen move makes sense - aiming to prevent black from reaching his preferred French setup. 2.-Qe7 eventually results in a Philidor (sort of), but what's the added value of this queen move compared to 2.-d6 [which probably has to be played later anyway]? Indeed, my opponent also said after the game "if I keep my center together, black's position is playable". I guess 2.-Qe7 is also primarily a provocative move - asking white to look for a (non-existing) refutation and to burn time on the clock doing so. Clever, but presumably it works only once against any given opponent (and is best used in games that do not end up in databases!?). Jens Kristiansen's picture Castro, if Manchester United was going to play, say, one of our danish teams, you can easily imagine how the Betting Companies would set up the odds. That¬¥s because they KNOW something about football. I f you even though would place your bet on the danish team, you would by guided some, maybe subliminal foreseeing of the completely unexpected result - and that would indeed be "mystiscism"! And, Castro, you wrote: "...there are lots of chess problems where human assumptions were refuted by means of the computer". Is that really so? I could be you are refering to the endgame K+B+B vs. K+N, which the tablebases proved is a win in any normal position, contrary to previous human assumptions. But that is a special case, because no one of the great endgame investigaters ever really dealt with that endgame. You may wonder if eg. Troitsky would not have found the correct "solution", had he given it its time. In endgames where the great investigaters have been seriously at work, as far as I know, very few basic refutations of their conclusions has been pointed out with the aid of the tablebases, if any at all. Castro: "I believe that the solution is about to be discovered (with or without computers)" Please tell us more about that! About the game Schiffers-Tchigorin: Very amusing, white even wins the black Q for two pieces, before it ends in a draw. Is it really a serious game? Maybe an exhibition- or rapidgame? That¬¥s a question for chess historians - on this subject it proves nothing. About 2.-,Qe7: I believe it is one of Gunderams many, rather alternative suggestions. Another one was: 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,d6 3.d4,Bg4 4.dxe5,Nd7!?. You may try that out in blitz-games :). Thomas's picture Jens, thanks for mentioning Gunderam's name .... I was curious, and Google is one's best friend: To my slight surprise, 2.-Qe7 was played by 'respectable' players such as Sulskis and (back in 1971) Kupreichik. And it even occurred in Adams-Radjabov, FIDE WCh Tripoli 2004 (drawn after 44 moves). (then "view games" and sort by rating). Concerning Gunderam's other suggestion, I actually had to deal with it playing white in blitz games ... and indeed it is hard to prove over the board that black has insufficient compensation for the pawn. Castro's picture Oh Lord, so much pasion you people have! Nice! Let's see... @Arne, Thomas, Jens The clothing analogy. Nicely spoted. I understand it, but note that it is a great analogy for the thing you think was in Chigorin's mind. I think he was experimenting, yes, but not trying to show off anything. And Schifers was no patzer at all, and that #18 Thomas mentioned is, at least for some period, an underrate. Now, for the Damiano: I don't know what is the fear! As I said before, I don't play it myself (maybe I'll start from now on) because, as to my (human, present-day, not-very-good-or-informed-player) information and intuition, it seems too risky for black. But saying it is "bad" as having full information, or even "simply bad" or "obviously bad" looks far more risky!! It could be confusing "difficult to play nowadays" with "refuted". That's what I meant, and I'm also honest in saying that I must admit the (remote, for our intuition) posibility of the Damiano ending up being a good defense (or, who knows, even THE best defense). I'm completely sincere and glad to have that posibility open! And no, Thomas, my slyghtly provocative nature is not on call here, unless if having some different view is to be regarded as simple provocation. (Of course I'd like to see eminent masters ( ;-) ) like you sharing that view, but don't go wrong, my opinion is not influenced by that, unless I'd see real reasons (not pasions) to maybe change it. A question to you 3: Do you realy think you have a won (classic times) game, if your level opponent (say, you both had 2200 elo) plays you the Damiano? Would you at least rate your chances way above the usual white's advantage, against such an opponent? If your answer is "Yes", I think you're on pasion and faith territory, that's all. Faith is important, but here your "Yes" answer are of no greater value than my critics on the French defense (on the French Chigorin article!). It's guessing, and guessing at one's "pleasure" (thing I did asumedly). Sorry! I liked to see mentioned, on this context, another "infamous" (but not so) opening: The Blackmar-Diemer gambit. What are the odds against it? Is it good? Or "almost refuted" (an hilarious concept :-) ), like the Damiano seems to be on your minds? Arne, I say your take on the "difference between 2‚Ä¶f6 and 2‚Ä¶Qe7" was exactly that kind of mistake. All that post is pasion-understandable, but only posible to say by forgeting any real reason. What do we know about the future things that will contradict the things we think we know? How can one be obviously sure that f6 is weakening (beyond any kind of unkown compensation), and that, with Qe7, "Black can keep the position closed and his king safe"? Can it?? Couldn't it be the precise other way arround? Are you god, or will you share those proofs with us? Ah, it's a belief? Ok, it is fully respectable, as such! Imagine someone simply condemning the Shvieshnikov because of the d6 pawn on the open file... Ah, but there is a significant number of games, and lots of best players believe in it...? Ah, but it passed many decades without being refuted? Ah! One must know what is being talked, in order to understand each other. And yes, Thomas, on this context you used the expresion "I guess" very well, on the following post. (I'm not being ironic) Jens, I understood from the start (the other post of yours) your point on that we, humans, know something, and so some bets look better than others. So, the Manchester analogy is nice, and everyting, but regarding chess one thing happens much easier than in football: Our information could be criticaly and extremely wrong, when revealing the --- for now --- unknown territory. It's not a question of one improbable game a danish team could (can realy) win from Manchester, on a "bad day" of the latter. In a pure finite logical game, as chess is, if we don't have the solution, we must play acording to "rules" we gathered for centuries, about the known part of the game, but the reformulations of some of them are (and can be even more) extreme. In football it could happen still, but either they were not that extreme reformulations, or we couldn't anyway expect to understand them, as there are no completely solved situations in football (other than the final blow of the referee, maybe). An example I do again: Do you agree it can be proved that black has an advantage? Even a win? (As white can, of course). Don't you know, for instance, that much of our present-day aproach is based on white having an advantage? Are these two facts conciliable? One thing is understanding why one does not play the Damiano today, other is saying of sure science that it's obvously not the way to go, or even saying that betting on the french defence is a best bet. Doesn't your intuition tell you, for instance (as I don't have a proof), that for any "chess-like" game that has been proved to be a win for white, one can present another that is a win for black (and another that is a draw with best play)? As for the endgames, you're right for the most part: Either were assumed complicated endgames, or rarely the investigators were completely denied, but I'd include also that question of "unique moves", where the computer discovered they weren't unique (on heavy pieces endgames, for instance). And look: It's not on ("simple") endgames that the question is, but more on opening choices and dismisses. I note some irony on your comment on my sentence "I believe that the solution is about to be discovered (with or without computers)‚Äù. It was not necessary! That sentence is fully asumed, and the "I believe" part is not an English language trick. It's a matter of faith, of course also intuition-based on my (old, though) math theorems and programing studies, and on what happened to other games, including checkers (and I didn't fail in predicting the solution of checkers, some years before). I can add that I'm one of those who do not fear --- maybe my curiosity even makes me wishing --- that eventuality. Do you think I can tell you more? Please sugest. The Schiffers-Chigorin was a serious match game, but of course they were uncompromising masters trying things (as the famous Chigorin-Tarrash match also was). I find your comment "on this subject it proves nothing" rather misterious. I didn't claim it would prove something on this subject, but as you mentioned... What about proving that none of the two masters liked to persist on playing the Damiano? That, I think, brings an amusing and revealing paradox: It would be a conclusion that proved something (my point of view of not mixing faith/pasion/mysticism with science/logic/reason) by not proving something (that the defense would be bad). Castro's picture A question I'm always forgeting to ask you: Is the baby-girl on the picture your kid? Anyway, very kute! And one can see she's already pondering the next move! :-) Castro's picture (Could it be I get no more answers because no one understands my bad english?... my strugling and boring writing style? Or... what?) PB's picture Thomas's picture Castro, the main reason may be that your posts are often on the VERY long side - try to condense them or maybe split one post into several shorter and 'manageable' ones !? Regarding the role of strong GM's in opening developments, there are two contrasting theories: 1) Only the top 30 GM's matter at all (GuidedByVoices in an earlier thread). 2) Choices by GM's do NOT matter at all - that's how I would interpret Castro's recurrent and stubborn remarks on the Damiano. But GM's know something about chess, more than Castro, Thomas and others and maybe even 'significantly' more than IM Jens Kristiansen. So I would separate offbeat (dubious-looking?) openings into two categories: 1) those played by some GM's, at least occasionally: Evans Gambit, King's Gambit, Jaenisch Gambit, Chigorin defense (1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6), Gunderam opening (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Qe7), [who wants to continue this list?]. Some people would also include KID and Ben-Oni. And some openings were initially considered offbeat but even achieved mainstream status (Sveshnikov, Grunfeld). 2) those NOT played by GM's: Damiano, Blackmar-Diemer gambit (though popular among some other players). What's wrong with those openings? Clearly something must be wrong ... . The Morra gambit also seems to fall in this category, which suprises me a bit. Is it clearly worse than some d5 gambit lines in the Queen's Indian, fashionable in past and present? There seems to be a theoretical consensus that white's compensation in the Morra is insufficient, but this could change, any GM could try the Morra at least as a surprise weapon (also speculating that his opponent is not, or insufficiently prepared). Arne Moll's picture Thomas, I really think the Damiano (which has only disadvantages) falls in a different category than the Blackmar-Diemer and the Morra Gambit (which definitely do have advantages) or even the move 2.Qh5 that Nakamura played once after 1.e4 e5 (at least it attacks e5!). Besides, some variations tend to cross over those category barriers, such as the Albin counter gambit which had a very bad name until a few years ago, when Morozevich and others started playing it with reasonable success. Thomas's picture Arne, you do not need to convince me that the Damiano is simply bad, but you, me or anyone else apparently cannot convince Castro. I will give it one more try: Unlike, for example, Blackmar-Diemer and Morra it isn't even played at club level (excluding beginners) - if my own experience is comprehensive and representative: it spans ~25 years and includes five towns/regions from three countries (Germany, France and the Netherlands). And of course my definition of categories is both simplistic (one could define more than two categories) and flexible (things can change through time). Taking the Sveshnikov as an example: Maybe some people, including strong players (ELO >> 2000] were laughing or shaking their heads at Sveshnikov when he first played 5.-e5. Back to club level: In my first club, people got a puzzled look on their faces when I played the variation about 20 years ago. It was a small club, most people didn't follow GM games and didn't know much about opening theory - so actually they were even more puzzled that I needed less than a minute for the first ten moves ... . But by now, the Sveshnikov is well-established (accepted and respected by GM's, and even known to amateurs rated 1400-1600). Repeating and further explaining what I wrote before: If the Albin counter gambit can 'promote' from [my] category 2 to 1, the same might be possible for the Morra (why not?). Maybe it can even reach the status of a relatively common gambit having reasonable success, comparable to the Wolga-Benko gambit. There are obvious differences: the compensation needs to be stronger, more tangible, ... if one sacrifices central rather than flank pawns !? Castro's picture You're right, except for the chessy things we don't know yet. (How to avoid stubborness when confronted recurrently with the same mistake?) Why thinking we can now see deeply into what are the advantages and disadvantages of a not refuted opening, other than with our present-day weapons, some of which are fated to be refuted themselves? Why pretend we understand everything now, about something (I agree) is bad to play with that present-day weaponsand evaluations of us? Jens Kristiansen's picture Well, Castro, you see, in discussions I prefer to take off from what we do know, the other way around is "mystiscism" in my eyes. But, any way, it is quite exciting to speculate about this BIG solutions to the game of chess. When wil have it (not in my time I suppose, or what do you think, Castro !? :)), we will quite likely be up for some surprises, but I do not think we will have to completely alter our theoris on chess. Basically there are only two kinds of positions in chess: Those which are "=", meaning drawn by correct play, and those which are "+ -/ - +", meaning won for one of the parties by correct play. If we assume, as I do just intuituvely, that the game is drawn by correct play, then the SOLUTION - or most likely, the SOLUTIONS - are along paths consisting only "="-positions. The famous "Shannon number" estimates around 10 in 210 possible variations of chess, meaning possible games. Even if only a very tiny portion of these are "correct", then it will still be an enourmous number of games. And more: In many of these "correct" games it could be that one of the parties along the "="-path has many alternatives that keeps him there, while the other party for a long sequence of moves only has one choice, keeping him on the path. But, even though, this game will still be categorized as "correct". Well, it could be, even if I doubt it, that, say, the Damiano after 2.-,f6 still keeps black on the "="-path, but I would believe black for a long sequence would have to follow a very narrow path to stay there. And that is what really matters to HUMANS: The Damiano is simply to difficult to defend from. In this connection, about these gambits where white (some times black) offers a pawn to gain some quick mobilisations as eg. The BDG, The Morra- or the Danish Gambit: I honestly believe they are also "correct", meaning that whites game is not LOST after playing them. So why are they not played by the best players? In my opnion it is simply because they are to easy to defend against, especially in the modern way by simply giving the material back at an appropriate moment. These gambits are simply not played beacuse they are far to DRAWISH! But there are lots of other gambits at work in modern chess at the highest level. But in these you away material for some more refined, farsighted goals, and that is another matter. Arne Moll's picture Thanks for the fine post, Jens. I agree with it completely. Castro, I should add that although we may not know everything in chess, or ever know it for that matter, I don't think that means we should abandon all the knowledge that we have collected in the past centuries. It's very valuable and often proved to be 100% correct! To ignore that would be the same mistake the creationists are making when they argue that because evolution hasn't explained every biological process step yet, the theory must be false or at least shouldn't be taught in schools. forest's picture yes Arne, can you do so, because I dont trust forest doing it as he promised! Castro's picture Maybe it's somewhat "dangerous" to bring Darwinism here. You may get undesired comments (not undesired on the same way of mine, hehe). I understand what you mean, but (other than realy being a darwinist myself :-) ) comparing my point of view with that of creationists regarding biology it's a little too much! Of course we say everyday at our clubs (I don't go there for years, though) things like "That opening sucks, it's simply bad". And in the sense of "knowledge that we have collected in the past centuries" we even can call these remarks as "science". I just think we should know better, regarding chess science, maybe because in this kind of pure logical games either you realy know the solution for some situation already or it's easy to get a big surprise. Just think the "knowledge that we have collected in the past centuries" before the advent of Grunfelds, Sveshnikovs, and others. It surely condemned them imediately, as strongly as you dismiss the Damiano now. (But luckilly there were always "crazy players" that assumedly played "bad openings". Even Steinitz were one of the maddest tactitians ever, and he even insisted playing the completely crazy Steinitz Gambit --- a "simply bad" opening, in my opinion looking even worse than the Damiano ---, despite all his strategic theory! And lots of masters grabed lots of bad-reputed openings, believed in them, and sometimes inspire others to play them... That's how openings come... and go!) Anyway, I never said we should abandon our knowledge now, neither I think for the Damiano to be good we would have to abandon great part. The concept (not easy to concretize, or sometimes even imagine, for the future of this or that opening, before the respective concrete "shocks" happen) is "reformulation", and we hat lots of them along the centuries. And they were "unbelievable" before happening, also. I liked particularly of your image of Damiano (or other openings) maybe being "=" but with a too much "narrow path" of choice of sequences to atain that (specialy from the present day knowledge point of view). That's something I think I was also saying, except that I (and everybody outside guessing is forced to) admit posible the other two results: "+-" and "-+". Look: I'm not saying "believe very probable" (any of the 3)! As for the BIG solutions: What is that??? Who talked about big? What do you mean by that? The solution (plural is irrelevant, as I can say "solution" meaning set of solutions, set of all same-minimal-length sequences of best play, for instance) exist. There are some (rather turtuous or mystical) meanings of that sentence that would be false. For instance, the solution of the chess game doesn't "exist" for me (or you or us all) because it's not proved I will ever see it before I die. But I think we can agree on the meaning it is true. (Can we?) Chess has a solution. (Right? Please tell me if the objection starts here!) Checkers was in the same situation, say, in the 60's. (OK?) Checkers is solved now. (Not the 10x10 variant, etc, but OK?) (These previous two were just examples.) Chess CAN BE about to be solved (Yes?) I say chess IS about to be solved (10-20 years is my guess, but I CAN BE wrong). What's the big deal?? Respecting any guesses about what this (posibly composed) solution will consist of (if =, +- or -+, and if one or more identical best sequences), my own guess in that particular is I just don't know, and I'm eager to know! I'd be specialy amused if the solution was -+, but not completely surprised. The other two would amuse me too, of course. More than living to that day of the solution, I'd wish to live enough to understand someting about it also! Does that make me weard? Maybe... Imagine that tomorrow (29/05/09) someone proves that the game can never be that very amusing -+. I'd rejoice anyway! And I'd become curious to know (though maybe not capable to understand?) that proof. Get it? THERE is my own assumed view and subjectivity. THERE I could never say it would be expected that others feel the same way, nor that it has anything logic or scientific (other than the curiosity, maybe). Castro's picture Arne, could you please get my post out of the spam filter prision (again)? Jens Kristiansen's picture Yes, as far as I know of, it is mathematically proven that there is a solution to chess. But when (if?) we have that, it does by far not mean that we have solved all the mysteries, and the book can be closen - on the contrary, I believe. The computers can tell us, the human players, how we should have played in a given position. And one day they may even provide us with a definite answer on that. But...they will never be able to tell us WHY we choose a given move, how ever faulthy or brilliant it is. As they will never be able to tell us WHY we choose our opennings. The BIG mysteries are still hidden inside ourselves. Castro's picture Woke up from some bad nightmare? :-) Looks like you wrote something related with my adressing Arne, but it's puzzling what you could mean... Castro's picture I don't even pretend to know that enough to allow me to agree with you. I'll explain: The solution can have various forms, and some of these forms would even allow human beings to imediatly understand. In the case of other forms of solution, your scenario would become real, and maybe humans wouldn't understand more than being informed by computers of what is the move... at least for some years, or so. (Or not). But let me give an image of the other kind, the forms I mentioned first. It's realy (of course) just an image. As an emerit IM you know (though lots of us untitled also know) that in the endgame (say) white Ka8, Pa7, N wondering the board, but far from this corner, and black just the K (say) on d7, it is easily proved mathematicaly (and as easyly understood) that, regardless of the exact square of the knight, and of the exact future knight moves, Black (on the move) draws or loses the game exactly if he plays (his king) to the one of the two squares {c7, c8} which is of the same colour of the square where the White N stands. No one can asure that the (for me not far away) solution couldn't be of that type, in terms of "easy to aply", who knows, "easy to understand" (never as easy as my image, that would be outragious, hehehe!!), or even "discovered without computers". No one knows! (I think). And the great complexity of the game is no garanty of any greatness on the complexity of the solution either! You can have more intricated rules in a game with some childish solution! (The one of chess isn't, I think). Ah! But even if the solution was to be easy to aply or understand, we wouldn't run out of misteries, for a long time, would we? If not for anything else, we will always have the psichologic (and brain sciences in general), the computational, and historical aspects... And more! If not easy (or even not human posible) to aply, then the existence of the solution will also allow us to continue playing (other humans, at least). Anyway, I'm not a profet, just a simple happily believer ;-) Castro's picture Let's get realy mystical: The solution to chess will be revealed on the Maya Calendar's ending, 22th December 2012. LOL :-) Castro's picture Sorry, on the previous post: (*) or if he makes any other move Of course! Castro's picture I see... One more dead end. Ok. (Not for me, anyway ;-) ) Your comment	http://www.chessvibes.com/comment/39011	<urn:uuid:eac56327-0559-4793-92a3-15b3e63a574c>	en	0.97109	0.051238
Print 86 comment(s) - last by Gzus666.. on Nov 26 at 9:41 AM Performance difference is credited to faster CPU in 2G touch The iPod touch and iPhone are typically considered to be twins with the obvious exception that the touch lacks the phone hardware. Games and applications for the iPhone are usually able to play on the iPod touch as well. Thomas Fessler, CEO of Handheld Games Corp., says that the 3D performance between the platforms is far from the same, according to Touch Arcade. TouchSport Tennis from the company is one of the most demanding game titles for the platform and according to Fessler; the performance of the game is very different between the iPod touch and iPhone. Significant performance differences are seen between the generations of the touch device and iPhone as well. Fessler says that his company had to modify its game to run well across all platforms and that the 2G iPod touch is by far the highest performing platform for mobile gaming from Apple. For play on the iPod touch 2G, Handheld Games used two players with 1,500 polygons each and 32 bones and were still able to get fluid gameplay. The original iPod touch wasn't able to run the game with the same settings, and in some instances, the iPhone wasn't able to get the game to play either. The company had to reduce the polygons to 800 per player to get fluid gameplay on some platforms. The reason the performance difference is so noticeable on games that push the hardware is that the 2G iPod touch has a processor running at 523MHz, up from 412MHz. The iPhone and the iPhone 3G along with the first generation touch all run the slower 412MHz processor speed. Fessler says that the GPU in the new touch may have been tweaked as well, but there is no evidence making that change concrete at this time. Those with a first generation iPod touch may not be able to run some of the more hardware intensive games coming to the market. Comments Threshold A joke of a portable gaming device By TerranMagistrate on 11/24/2008 12:44:07 PM , Rating: 3 No matter how hard Apple tries to push the ipod touch/iphone as a legitimate competitor to the DS and PSP, they're destined to fail. It's like comparing a flash-based internet game to a console game. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Brandon Hill (blog) on 11/24/2008 12:58:14 PM , Rating: 1 I really don't care what they aim it at, but as a gaming platform -- I love it. I have a 32GB iPod touch 2G and I used it to play quite a few games (mostly puzzle games) but it's a good time waster: Solebon Solitaire I, however, can't wait until Sim City comes out next month for it. I probably play Uno and Cubes the most, but the real beauty in the iPod touch is that it's a do-everything, take everywhere device. I pop it in my pocket where it doesn't even make a dent in my pants, hop in my car and hook it up to my aux-in and jam to some tunes. Then whenever I get where I'm going, I can play some games, surf the net, check my email, or do any of hundreds of other things with apps from the App Store. I don't think that many other devices come close to offer a "total package" with such storage capacity and game/application options in such a small form-factor. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By quiksilvr on 11/24/2008 1:16:38 PM , Rating: 1 The price is still too ridiculous for my taste. I'd rather just get the Archos 5. Much more functionality and a more realistic price. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Chaser on 11/24/2008 2:36:18 PM , Rating: 2 The Archos is big for a pocket, its pricing for functionality misleading and it's not a phone. By quiksilvr on 11/24/2008 7:15:04 PM , Rating: 3 ...we're weren't talking about a phone, we were talking about the iTouch. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 2:41:47 PM , Rating: 1 Where can you even buy an Archos 5? The Archos store lists only the Archos 7, and for over $400! How is that cheaper than an iPod touch? 32GB is less storage, yes, but the iPod touch is also more portable! Amazon lists the 120GB Archos 5 for $389, and much larger too. The Archos 5 won't fit in your pocket. So it's the old "Creative Nomad with 3.5" HDD vs iPod with 1.8" HDD" all over again. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 5:05:00 PM , Rating: 2 It would be quite the feat to fit a 3.5" HDD in anything but a normal tower computer. Last I checked even much larger laptops use 2.5" hard drives, how would it be possible this music player uses a hard drive that is larger than the device itself? RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/08, Rating: 0 RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 7:28:32 PM , Rating: 3 Or maybe you have no idea what you are talking about?,review-12-11.html,review-12-13.html Looks like a 2.5" to me. Also says it is and it is is 6GB. Also it had USB 1.1. Do you enjoy being wrong all the time or do you just not know better? The fact that you thought it was a 3.5" drive is amazing, they are like an inch and a half thick on their own. This just makes it even more clear you know all of nothing about anything electronic. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 7:50:54 PM , Rating: 2 You're right! Now I'll have to correct all my future posts on the Creative Nomad Jukebox. And just so you think I'm right sometimes, I measured a 3.5" HDD on my coworker's desk. It's only 1" high, or 25mm if you're metric, not over an inch and a half. Point for me, yay. By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 7:58:06 PM , Rating: 2 You should refer to my use of "like" an inch and a half. This is called an estimate, cause while I have a 3.5 sitting here, I don't have a tape measure near. An estimate serves perfectly fine, as it is not really the issue. Surely an inch thick is not the point that makes it usable in the device, so the estimate is moot. By Darth Farter on 11/24/2008 1:18:00 PM , Rating: 2 I fully agree. I'm by no means an apple user or fanboy... a while back I actually preferred a Zen xtra as mp3 player. However 3rd party support and especially the mobility of the touch (bought last year) and the 3G that I have now (while my GF is getting addicted to poker, puzzles and "pets" on the touch in her free time) gave me lots of respect to the platform. you basically take it anywhere, and when you have to wait in line, are bored at work, if there's a power outage, or just for productivity (messenger, scheduling, to-do lists, stocks, mailing, etc) I found this device extremely handy when jailbreaked. anyway, I've never even used a mac, cause I love being able to run everything on my pc's.. but this is also the very same reason the Touch and especially the iPhone as they are extremely handy when jailbreaked (and since firmware 2 with the app store too) Beejiveim, fring (skype-ish), things, mail, weather, stocks, safari, winterboard, dynolicious, converter, spore, cycorder, mxtube(youtube downloader), tunewiki, Holdem poker, maxefinger, igotchi, asphalt4, facebook, taptapRevenge, bejeweled, Icanhazcheezburger, gpsphone(good gameboy emulator!!), linerider and iphysics can entertain me for days without the need to actually use my pc. note: I didn't pay anything for these as there's lots of places to get appz for free instead of paying for them ... though if I would be able to from my location I'd prolly pay for some of those for respect. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By kmmatney on 11/24/2008 4:47:51 PM , Rating: 2 I have a DS, with an 8 GB memory card, which is a great system for games and music. Maybe not the best music player, but the games are great (I have SIM city...), and as a music player it works well enough, and the memory is easily expandable. A nice gaming/music system for less than $150. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 4:59:14 PM , Rating: 1 Yes, but your DS doesn't have a phone, so you will still need to carry a phone AND a DS around. The logic here is that I have an 8GB iPhone that only cost me $199 up front, has a great music player, is good for games, has plenty of memory, and has lots of other functionality on top of that. Your DS with 8GB... isn't that hacked? Or does the new DSes have the ability to integrate with MicroSD? RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By StevoLincolnite on 11/24/2008 8:38:39 PM , Rating: 2 Not everyone needs or wants a phone, Might sound crazy but I hate phones, I always leave mine at home, I just can't bear the thought of going out to lunch with someone only to spend the whole time on the phone sending text messages or talking to someone. - Then again I live in the country, which I find is less reliant on such devices. By michael2k on 11/25/2008 6:47:29 PM , Rating: 2 More people need phones than gaming devices, however :) RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/08, Rating: 0 RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By omnicronx on 11/24/2008 1:25:18 PM , Rating: 4 The iPhone/iPod have 412MHz GPUs and CPUs and OpenGL support. Essentially it's a DreamCast in your pocket. How many times do I have to tell you these numbers are not comparable? The OS on a console is basically a bootloader that barely takes up any resources coupled with the fact that the processors(cpu and gpu) are optimized to be used specifically for gaming use. The playstion was only 33MHZ, yet to emulate a playstion game on a PC, a 450MHZ-500MHZ processor with a good 3D accelerator is required. You are not comparing Apples to Apples, and who cares about OpenGL support when comparing to a DS, it obviously has its own API designed specially for the platform, (which is always more efficient than a crossplatform API such as OpenGL) I'm not knocking the iPhone as a gaming device, it think it has potential, but a 333Mhz PSP will outshine the iPhone pretty much any day in terms of performance. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/08, Rating: 0 RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 2:42:15 PM , Rating: 2 How would you possibly know if it was "powerful enough"? You don't even understand architecture differences in processors and OS overhead. You tried to have this silly argument before and everyone destroyed your silly clock speed vs clock speed argument, now just stop. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/08, Rating: 0 RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 4:27:29 PM , Rating: 2 Just say it, you don't know what you are talking about. You have shown it time and time again. Remember last iPhone article about it becoming a gaming device? You pretty much stopped arguing with the people that pointed out anything to do with your mindless comments you spout over and over, much like now. Did you copy and paste this from your previous fiasco? This long winded post is pretty much just the culmination of the crap you spouted last time that was shot down then and will be again. Would you really want me to go back through your garbage and quote all the cute posts where you clearly don't understand that ARM has different architectures? You don't understand it, just admit it. Powerful enough? You have no facts, just a feeling. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 4:32:31 PM , Rating: 1 Yes, powerful enough. What facts do you want? Like all statistics, give me the requirements and I can give you the right metrics :P The point being that developers are already writing games for the iPhone and already making money and as long as that is the case, more games will continue to be written. That is my basis for "powerful enough". I also stopped responding to you the last time around because I didn't want to talk to you, something about you being insulting and such, and I didn't want to resort to being insulting as well. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 4:56:39 PM , Rating: 2 Like that one? Or do you think maybe because you were completely wrong? Seems like you didn't respond to this guy either...wonder why? Another fun one. Little more of people destroying your silly processor clock speed argument. I will leave it here for now, but I'm sure I could spend days finding gems like those. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 5:17:37 PM , Rating: 1 You really want a reply? Link 1) An example where a sufficiently powerful PC can compare to a much less powerful PS1, where the PC was an order of magnitude more powerful for comparable graphics in emulation. This is a comparison to the relationship between the DS and iPhone where the iPhone has an order of magnitude more powerful hardware, which means it should be fully capable of running DS quality graphics in emulation. This example also provides proof that a system with a full OS, such as Windows 95, is perfectly capable of running a game like Final Fantasy 7, so is another example that a platform like the iPhone, with OS, can also run a game like Final Fantasy 7 (though at a lower resolution) Link 2) An example that comparing a DS to iPhone is apples to apples in terms of CPU performance, even taking OS overhead into consideration. iPhone at 412MHz is over 10x more powerful than DS at 33MHz, and the iPhone has a much more powerful GPU than the DS, since the PowerVR on the iPhone is roughly 4x more powerful than the PowerVR on the DreamCast. Meaning DS style graphics should be more than possible (and already seen in many games currently available). The second example was also apples to apples, comparing a Pentium Pro to a Core processor. Link 3) Hey! I replied to Link 3! Regardless, I was comparing the iPhone to the Wii in that it targets a different gamer market that is currently untapped by the DS or PSP... one who always has a cell phone where they won't carry a DS or PSP, who has 5 or 10 minutes to kill and will launch Game.App while waiting for coffee or a movie to start, or whatever. That too is already evident in the game sales of the iPhone, and that market will get bigger as more iPhones are sold. Link 4) I also replied to Link 4! Again, if you keep referring to my clock speed argument, you are totally missing the point. My clock speed argument boils down to saying the iPhone is powerful ENOUGH, and so far you haven't given any proof otherwise. Your only proof to say the iPhone isn't powerful enough is that I haven't convinced you, and that isn't proof, that just means you are ignorant. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 5:40:56 PM , Rating: 2 You presented the claim that the iPhone is "powerful enough". You presented a claim, it is your job to support it. So far your harebrained scheme has been to compare clock speeds of devices, which has absolutely no bearing on performance when comparing across these devices. You keep using a PC as an example, yet you don't understand that normal PCs share a completely different architecture and OS design than hand held devices, which means comparison is silly at best. I know I have pointed this out to you at least twice now. You seriously still think that clock speed makes something 10 times more powerful? You have been torn into about this at least 4 different times, yet you keep bringing it up. They are not comparable, they are different architectures and even though they are both ARM they are different. Your clock speed argument boils down to you having little to no understanding of how electronics and general computing processors work and how they differ. There are also so many more things to consider when comparing speed of two devices. Do you compare a Corvette to a Suburban? They share the same base engine, so they should be the same, right? This is how stupid your argument is. There are tons of things to take into consideration, but you chose to use some ignorant metric like pure clock speed. That ONLY works if everything is the same other than the clock speed. An example would be a stock clock and an overclocked PC. Another good one is the iPhone to the iPod Touch, because they are pretty much the same beyond the clock speed and the fact that the iPod doesn't have to run any of the phone aspects that the iPhone does. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 6:13:11 PM , Rating: 1 My claim that the iPhone is powerful enough is backed up by existing games: Monkey Ball, Force Unleashed, and Cro Mag Ralley all display the graphical and CPU capabilities of the iPhone. My examples were only to convince you using other parallels that the iPhone was more than capable, by giving you examples of less powerful hardware that was more than capable of gaming. And that has 100% bearing when comparing to the iPhone. 486s with VooDoos were powerful enough to play Quake; DreamCast with PowerVR was powerful enough for Virtual On; Pentium 3 with VooDoo was powerful enough for Final Fantasy 7, as was a lowly PSX. The iPhone, by all measures, has more powerful hardware than most of these systems, and is comparable to the rest. The PC architecture and OS is relevant because it shows that OS overhead isn't enough to stop a PC from gaming, unless you are going to argue that PCs can't play games when every day there is proof otherwise from Blizzard, Id, EA, Activision, and Eidos. That you keep rejecting that comparison means you don't understand the premise. It isn't about how different the PC is from the iPhone, it's the fact that give a PC sufficiently powerful hardware and it can game as well as keep up with consoles. An iPhone has a PowerVR at 412MHz, a DreamCast has a PowerVR at 100MHz. An iPhone has literally the same GPU, but 4x the clock. That is more than powerful enough to allow DreamCast visuals on an iPhone. My PC comparison is to show that PCs routinely compete against consoles because PCs have significantly faster processors and GPUs, which is valid in this case because the iPhone has significantly faster CPU and GPU than a DreamCast or a DS, and is comparable to a PSP or PS2. Clockspeed makes something 10x more powerful when it is the same architecture, and that is the point of the DS comparison. A DS uses an ARM CPU at 33MHz and the iPhone uses an ARM CPU at 412MHz. CPU compute intensive operations WILL be 10x faster on an iPhone, there is no way around that. The iPhone may have more interruptions due to background processes, but in terms of raw performance it is, indeed, 10x faster (actually over 12x). ARM architectures are comparable, especially when you have 12x the clock. As another example I'm sure you'll misunderstand, even a CPU like the original 486-66 can be compared to to a Pentium 3 at 800MHz; both have the same instruction set and there is no question that a Pentium 3 is more powerful. The same extension can be made to the DS and iPhone: 33MHz ARM9 vs 412MHz ARM11, so we have a two generation advancement in architecture (486->Pentium->Pentium 3) and over 10x clock improvement (66->800MHz). I don't know why you can't see it, the parallels are the same. ARM9->ARM11, 33MHz->412MHz. Both examples use the same architectures/instruction sets, so they are like to like analogies. And if you FAIL to see how to compare a Corvette to Suburban, you fail logic in general. I've never said a DS and iPhone are the same, I only said they were comparable. A Corvette and Suburban both consume fuel; thus you can compare them in terms of annual fuel costs. They both require maintenance, and you can compare them on maintenance costs. They carry people, so you can compare their ability to move people. They travel at certain velocities, so you can compare their speeds against each other. They happen to both cost money, so you can compare their monthly payments. You can't say they are equal, but you can say that if you need to go to the supermarket, both will work. One is better if you have 5 people and the other is better if you want to go fast. In that same sense, the iPhone is better if you need to make a phone call, but the DS is better if you want more battery life. Where they overlap, you can say the DS is cheaper, you can say the iPhone has more CPU and GPU resources, the games on the iPhone are cheaper, but there are more games on the DS. Pure clock speed in this case is like comparing horsepower to horsepower, where one is better at going fast (Corvette, iPhone) and the other is better at pulling weight (Suburban, DS). Get it? No, I didn't think so. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 7:39:53 PM , Rating: 2 They are not the same architecture, why are you so thick headed? READ!!! The architecture is different even in the arm family. Not only that, but instruction sets can change, which I'm sure you know nothing about, or factor into your silly comparison. Your comparison is to compare speed, not these other things. You are babbling again. Corvette clearly outclasses the Suburban in speed by leaps and bounds, even though they comparable horsepower and similar engine. My point is that the CPU (engine) can't be compared by itself just cause they are made by the same people and are similar. There are many more factors. By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 12:11:06 PM , Rating: 2 Would you both just STOP? Gzus66: Your posts in this topic are rude, and just as full of assumptions and generalizations as michael2K's are. You're smarter than this, and this little tiff just makes you look like a contrarian. At some point if you keep arguing you do take on some of the burden to disprove an argument, and that happens the moment you cease asking for proof and start providing counterpoitns. Besides, the clock speed comparison isn't the point anyway, so just drop it. We all know its a bad comparison, and at this point you've beaten the dead horse so bad we all think a bomb must have gone off... michael2K: You're probably right in your theory, but your mistake was in comparing clock speeds as if there was some equivalency across architectures. There is not, as Gzus66 has clearly pointed out numerous times. I do get that this isn't your argument, merely one of several points you're trying to make to prove your argument. The other points you're making are good enough to support your argument, so let the clock speed thing go. The difference in the CPU architecture, the other pieces of hardware, and the software implementation on the varying hardware should serve to prove one thing. No matter what the hardware, the right software can create a successful gaming platform. Period. So, is the iPhone a good gaming platform? Depends on the software... RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Lugaidster on 11/26/2008 2:05:47 AM , Rating: 2 Please quit spreading lies. First of all, the DS has 2 CPU's and ARM7 at 33 MHz and an ARM9 at 66 MHz making it 3 times more powerful than what you state. And, I'm pretty sure that the 2d capabilities of the ds are at least on par with those on the iphone. Second, both the DS and the PSP have custom made graphic logic for their hand consoles. Something that the iphone completely lacks. But most importantly is the fact that even though the Dreamcast and the iphone share the same name(PowerVR) in their GPU, that doesn't mean anything. Ati makes many different radeons, as does Nvidia with their geforce range and the performance difference is big to say the least, so the brand is no guarantee. Plus, the iphone just doesn't compare to the dreamcast. Super Monkey Ball/Force Unleashed/Cro Mag Ralley all look like crap when compared to Shenmue graphic-wise. Also, you state that you need a _relatively_ powerful pc to play a psx game, that doesn't help your argument at all. It just proves that a system designed for gaming is better than a general-purpose system. You are right on one thing though, the iphone could still make it, though I highly doubt it since controls play a large role in gameplay and the iphone doesn't have a comfortable interface for anything other than puzzle games. Besides, nokia already tried and failed (ngage anyone?). The iphone may be a great casual gamers out there but (most) hardcore gamers will stay away from it (for gaming at least). That is until we see a big name with a big title in the iphone, or they make a new phone with buttons or both. By Gzus666 on 11/26/2008 9:32:28 AM , Rating: 2 Lugaidster, You hit the nail on the head my friend. But don't think he won't still try to argue the same thing in a week when the next iPhone game article comes out. By omnicronx on 11/24/2008 3:13:26 PM , Rating: 2 The iPhone hardware is good enough; I will drop the comparisons, I only bring it up to highlight the fact that the iPhone is powerful enough, not that it is necessarily more powerful. The iPhone will be great for those that want to play games for 5-10, perhaps 30 minutes while they are waiting, but its not going to replace the current market for portable gaming. Brandon Hill points out that he finds himself using it all the time, but was he a portable gaming user beforehand? If not then he is part of a new demographic, not the existing portable game market which you are trying to say that the iPhone will replace. The main reason why i disagree with the statements that the iPhone will take over the portable gaming world is as soon as smartphones come out with a working version of flash, the chances are you are going to see a dramatic drop on not only iPhone users downloading games, but a lack people buying the iPhone with gaming features in mind. Nobody is saying the iPhone is not a great device, but I have yet to come across any iPhone user that can regularly sit down and play a game for a significant period of time. Once the WoW factor of the motion sensors sets in, I think peoples view on the subject will change. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By PointlesS on 11/24/2008 1:33:20 PM , Rating: 2 The problem isn't the technology, it's the controls. Yes it's great for puzzle and slower paced games, but without buttons you don't get tactile response which results in a lot of "did that register?" moments. Rotating your iwhatever to steer a vehicle isn't fun when you're constantly overturning, and while you sort of get used to it. It'll never be as accurate as an analog stick or even a d-pad. It's a good device for certain games like strategy and puzzles, but almost all phones are good for those games. The only thing that separates it from other phones is the horsepower. It'll have significant growth in the cell phone industry, but it will never come close to competing with the PSP or DS. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 4:05:57 PM , Rating: 1 Re: Steering, isn't that how the Wii Mario Kart plays? People seem to do fine (though I agree the analog stick is more precise, turning is also more fun) Re: Feedback, isn't that already a problem on PC games where latency and lag due to CPU limitations? So long as the game is properly programmed to provide timely visual feedback, you always know when something registers I can certainly see games like JRPGs, tactics type games, and touch games. The only games that suffer would be platform games (like Mario or Metroid), shooter games (like Gradius), Fighting games (like Street Fighter), etc. Just about anything else is possible, with creative UI design: SIM style games, Diablo style games, Doom style games, etc. I can even imagine rail games (House of the Dead, StarFox), as long as you use a point to shoot UI. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 4:46:40 PM , Rating: 2 What the hell are you talking about? When did latency become a problem caused by CPU limitations? My god, read a book or something. Also, he is saying sometimes touch screens don't give you forceful feedback like a keyboard or mouse give or anything that is physical. You rarely wonder if you pushed a physical button. Have you played a game lately, or are you just talking out of your ass? Seriously do you have Apple stock or something? Otherwise you are mildly retarded at best. Of course you can, cause you lap up Steve Jobs' man juice. Diablo style games? Are you crazy? Doom? That would be painful at best. Starfox would suck on the phone. House of the Dead I will give you, but that is only cause there was no real movement beyond just shooting a target. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 5:35:38 PM , Rating: 2 Latency has always been a problem caused by CPU limitations. There are two big causes; when the CPU can't physically respond to an input fast enough, there is latency because the game doesn't react quickly, and when the CPU can't display updates fast enough. Maybe you don't know the definition of latency? Most people think it is only a problem with networking because the speed of transport causes interruptions in smooth continuous gameplay, but any kind of interruption that can stifle input processing (such as an overtaxed CPU) or display update (such as an overtaxed CPU) can cause latency. Even the spinning up of a hard drive can cause latency if it means the game can't respond because it is still retrieving game data from the drive. You can sometimes tell this when the game displays visual slowdown, when too many polygons or enemies are on screen. Dropped frames are another indication, though if the game is smart enough it will drop frames in order to prevent latency. You get a choppy video display but all the inputs from the player is still being processed in real time. As for feedback, a button only tells you that it exists, without vibration or some other "closed loop" mechanism there is still no feedback. You can press a key as much as you want and if the game display (as I say, visual feedback) doesn't tell you what happens you still get no feedback. A very real example of this is pressing a button on an elevator. If there is no light in the button you get no visual feedback indicating that you actually did anything. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 5:49:25 PM , Rating: 2 I have yet to see a modern PC be limited by the CPU for anything. GPU, Bus and HDD speeds are the limits I have seen. HDD has nothing to do with latency of gaming you jackass, it would only affect loading. Do you seriously think the hard drive is loading up the game without buffering into RAM? The buffering negates any problems with HDD affecting anything beyond loading, please just stop talking. Most people don't "think" it is a problem caused by networking, it is the reason in games. Do you ever hear of anyone complaining of latency in a PC that functionally plays the game at 60+fps without being online? Hell no, cause it doesn't exist. On top of that, the latency is never caused by the CPU, it would be caused by either a bus or GPU not processing quick enough. Visual slowdowns are caused by other things, not hard drives, you really live in a fantasy land. Dropped frames are pretty much always a GPU issue, especially on modern PCs with modern games. Touching something and it having physical give and return is a feedback champ. There is a reason you are rated down non-stop whenever you post this fanboy garbage. You might notice Omnicronx enjoys his Apple product, but he doesn't blindly make claims of it's greatness. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 6:23:35 PM , Rating: 2 Ah, maybe that's why you don't understand what I'm talking about. You aren't old enough to remember when games were regularly CPU limited or when HDD load speeds affected framerate. Maybe you don't even remember CD latency? This would have been more evident six years ago, but I guess today systems are so powerful that you only care about latency like this in low power systems like a Nintendo DS or a Gameboy Advance. Of course maybe you don't play modern games either? Viva Pinata was an XBox 360 game that saw visual slowdown when the screen was too crowded... that is an example of a console with CPU/GPU limitations. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By omnicronx on 11/24/2008 7:45:22 PM , Rating: 2 HD load speeds have not dramatically effected performance since the inception of the 3d accelerator, and even then games were made to take advantage of the current hardware, 'HD-Speeds' were barely a factor. The difference between a 5400RPM drive and a 4200RPM drive in terms of framerate would be barely noticeable, especially considering most games were sprite based. There is also no such thing as CD latency. A CD reads at the speed specified by the drive. 1x CDROM is 1.22Mbps, 2x is 2.44 and so on. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 8:02:47 PM , Rating: 2 No, CD latency isn't the "latency" of reading the CD, it's latency caused by the CD. Like when a game becomes unresponsive because it's reading from the CD? I know there are PS2 games that stutter if you have a scratched or dirty disc, though this was most visible when loading videos that required constant access speeds. In terms of games this would happen when you're loading textures from CD into ram and the transfer happened to be slightly slower than expected, causing the game to stutter until the access completed. But I haven't seen that in a game for 10 years now. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By noirsoft on 11/24/2008 8:57:08 PM , Rating: 2 While I agree with some of the points you made above (ooh, and I have multiple degrees in computer science) you are wrong about the definition of latency. Latency is when the system can process all the data, but it is delayed by a certain amount of time. When you adjust Rock Band so that the audio and video timings are in sync with each other, that is compensating for latency of your A/V system. You would see latency as something like a game keeping a consistent frame-rate and responding to your controls, but doing so consistently 1 second behind when you issue them. This is not due to a CPU being overloaded at any given time. Gamers care about latency because, in a FPS, if you line up a shot, you want to know that the point in time where you see the enemy and click to shoot is the same point in time for the server, so the latency doesn't cause your target to have already moved on, but you just don't see it yet. Is that at all clear (not rhetorical, I don't think I worded it well) Latency is independent of FPS, and you can't just throw more hardware at it to solve the issue. A friend of mine is getting his PhD by finding ways to use prediction and rendering tricks to emulate zero latency in VR simulations, since there is inherent system latency that cannot be gotten rid of. They are tied in one way. If your are running at 60 FPS, then the minimum system latency is 1/60 of a second, since that it the minimum possible amount of time from when you see something on the screen, issue a command to respond to it, and see the result. So, if your system is locked to your frame-rate, faster processing and rendering can improve latency. However, in practice, latency is independent of FPS, and has more to do with lengths of cable, OS protocols, buffering, etc. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 12:54:31 PM , Rating: 2 Actually, that is just one definition of Latency... Latency to an engineer is simply the time lag between something being initiated and the result becoming evident: In the Audio world, it specifically refers to the lag that occurs in the conversion between analog and digital signals: Heck, in Psychology it refers to a stage of sexual development: Typically, in a discussion, I prefer to use the definition assigned to a word by the original poster for the extend of that argument. Switching definitions mid-stream makes it a semantic argument instead of one about technology... By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 1:14:59 PM , Rating: 2 extent, not extend... My mistake. By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 7:46:24 PM , Rating: 2 I'm 26 and I have been using computers since MSDOS and my old 286. My father also has been doing it since punch cards and reel to reels and he is the one I learned from to begin with. The reason for slowdown was because old games of that era were directly speed controlled by clock speed of the processor. This was related to programming, not hardware issues. HDDs are not directly connected to the CPU, there is a bridge and bus in between (depending on the setup, this can vary, but this is common), if they did not buffer this, it would make everything unusable. Do you think RAM just hangs out for no reason? It has a purpose. Once again, if Viva Pinata was slowing down, it was related to the GPU, as this is the hardware that is rendering, not the CPU. On top of that, if it was the CPU, you can't use that as comparison since the console CPUs are in order CPUs, which work quite a bit differently than your normal processor. You honestly don't understand how hardware works at all. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 1:13:03 PM , Rating: 2 "I have yet so see a modern PC be limited by the CPU for anything." That has got to be the most unintentionally ridiculous statement I've read on this forum since, well, I can't think of when... Have you ever heard of Folding @ Home, audio encoding and processing, video encoding and decoding, or Rendering? All these are extremely CPU limited (or were until the latest generation of graphics card offloaded certain encoding and decoding processes from the CPU). Most of the graphics cards currently in computers in this world aren't the newest generation. I know that my two year old HTPC can't effectively decode H264 content on the fly as it stands (fortunately my TV is a POS so I don't need to either). How do I know it isn't caused by storage latency or some other system component? Well, once I decode the stream into a more processing forgiving format it plays just fine (Formats which, by the way, are less forgiving on other latency in the system). I also (just for fun) installed a RAMdisk and streamed video from it to see if it would make any difference - nope. There are also a ton of server level and scientific applications that are CPU limited, but I'll let that slide since you did say "PC" as in personal computer. Personally, I experience processing lag from the CPU on my PC on a daily basis. When I have all four cores fully maxed out on a rendering and then open word, or firefox, or just about anything else I can count seconds between typing a letter and it actually appears on the screen. The same thing can and does occur in games. Most games spawn multiple processes. These processes can and do compete for their pieces of the processor's pie. In games that are GPU limited (or multithreaded games as well) you don't have and CPU-related lag because it isn't maxed out. If you either have an older CPU or an incredibly bad-ass graphics card then you very well may be CPU limited. In single threaded games these means the processor is maxed out and some of those processes aren't getting as much as they want/need. In properly coded games frames are dropped and other less critical processes than the UI are the ones that suffer. In less cleverly coded games the UI processes (those translating keystrokes and mouse movements into commands in the game app) can and do experience lag as a result of the processor being over taxed. Call this poor coding, software latency, or anything else you want; but plug in a higher power CPU and the problem goes away. While it's equally dumb to say that latency is always caused by the CPU (which I don't think was the intent, though it read that way the first time), to say CPU doesn't limit modern PCs shows that you either have no concept of people actually use PCs for, or that you're making outrageously dumb claims out of sheer dislike of someone else's opinions. Either way, chill... By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 1:20:16 PM , Rating: 2 Geeze! I really need to read what I write... ...don't have ANY* CPU-related lag... ...single threaded games THIS* means... concept of WHAT* people actually use PCs for... I'd claim I was rendering and that any typos were a result of UI lag, but it would be a lie... RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/25/2008 3:09:59 PM , Rating: 2 I didn't make it clear enough obviously that this was in reference to the topic at hand, color me poorly worded. Also, if you want to get technical, Nvidia has shown all these tasks are better performed by GPUs anyway. The general point was that CPU intensive tasks(like the ones you mentioned) are CPU intensive and GPU intensive tasks(games) are GPU intensive (not trying to be patronizing here, just clearing the confusion). GPU limitations are among the #1 reason games have any visual lag in non-networked games. Behind that would of course start being bus speeds, and video memory on the graphics card. CPU would be pretty damn low on the chart in a modern multi-core CPU, especially when optimized for it. If it was misconstrued, then I hope this clears it up. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 4:02:27 PM , Rating: 2 I know you know what you're talking about, but I do appreciate the re-wording. You're absolutely correct that most of these tasks are GPU limited, and that in optimal systems with optimal programming the CPU is VERY unlikely (in games) to be the cause of a lag. Most people don't have that great of a system. There are plenty of game tests to suggest that games with complex AI interactions or non-GPU accelerated physics can actually be CPU limited on even recent hardware. Once again, all this can be resolved by GPU assisted processing, but not everyone has that kind of GPU horsepower either. Also, now we're splitting hairs. A GPU that is processing non graphics data is no longer a GPU. I think, for the context, instead of claiming games are "CPU" limited we should use a different term that refers to non-graphics related processing. Ultimately, I don't care what piece of hardware is crunching the data, it needs to be crunched by something and if I've only got one mid level graphics card I'm unlikely to sacrifice resolution for better physics thus forcing the CPU to either process the physics or turn it off. If I have to turn it off because a non-graphics process would reduce the performance of my system to unacceptable levels then I'm going to consider it general processing limited (not GPU limited). This whole GPGPU thing makes this conversation so much more complex... In consoles and other devices where the performance of the individual components is designed with an intentional performance balance, you're actually more likely to see these kind of problems in poorly produced games. However, it isn't the hardware that is to blame in these cases, but the software. If the software doesn't accurately asses the capabilities of such a stable platform, then the developer did a bad job. Period. Because of this, cross-platform developers are probably the best people to tell us which hardware/OS combination is faster because they'll know exactly what compromises they had to make for each hardware platform and OS. (PS> I'm glad I proofread this time, I wrote "horepower" instead of "horsepower" the first time around...) RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/25/2008 5:57:43 PM , Rating: 2 I tend to generalize things, otherwise you get into so many wacky scenarios, it just gets painfully long winded to try to account for them all. This seems to be a problem for many people, not just you, but I do it for a reason, I promise, ha. Really all I wanted to get across is that the GPU not the CPU is the usual suspect for game lag when networks aren't a factor. I will completely agree that the cause of lag in games on consoles is usually poor programming for the hardware in front of them, but where rendering is concerned it is usually (generalization again, ha) the GPU that is slacking. Doesn't mean there aren't other things that can cause this, but it is usually the first suspect in a line up. What it all comes down to is michael2k drives me nuts with his "Apple is perfect and anything they make will rule the world" mentality. He will jump through hoops to make sure it is the best thing ever made no matter what. Leave out Flash? He never liked it anyway. No copy and paste? They are better without it, the list goes on with this guy and I have caught him in a lie with the Flash stuff before. Now, this doesn't mean I don't think the MS fanboys aren't just as bad, cause they are and I get rated down often enough pointing it out. Honestly, I know games on the iPhone will be there and sell, but to say something as crazy as they will dethrone the DS and PSP is just pure insanity. We are talking 100s of millions of these things out there meant purely for gaming. I mean, could you honestly see playing Doom, Diablo or any RTS with a touch screen and tilt? Cause I know I sure as hell couldn't. But, to wrap this up, you argue with facts and well thought out arguments which I appreciate fully. Michael2k argues for Apple no matter what and that gets obnoxious very quickly, know what I mean? RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/25/2008 6:43:32 PM , Rating: 2 Um, when did I ever say the iPhone was going to dethrone the DS or PSP? I don't think I did. As much as you like being right, here I think you're wrong. I only said that the iPhone is a capable gaming system, that it was more powerful than a DS, and comparable to a PS2 and maybe even a PSP. I never said it was going to dethrone them, any more than the iPod dethroned PDAs (they didn't). By Gzus666 on 11/25/2008 7:30:48 PM , Rating: 2 You didn't, Apple is trying to say it though, of course Jobba won't come right out and say it, but that is what he is thinking. It's OK though, I can see now that you just strive to be right once. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By MamiyaOtaru on 11/26/2008 3:27:18 AM , Rating: 2 Sure it does. You must not be a gamer. Vsync is a common cause. So is having too large a max pre-rendered frames setting. Gamers are stupidly finicky sometimes. There's a reason some of them go to the effort to use a USB polling rate of 1000hz. By Gzus666 on 11/26/2008 9:41:51 AM , Rating: 2 If you are getting 60+ fps with V-sync on, it isn't an issue. I have a Razer Lachesis and I use the 1000hz polling, I have no issues. If they are complaining of this crap, their likely upgrade would be a video card. You are basically reaffirming what I said about it being a GPU not a CPU issue. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By CColtManM on 11/24/2008 1:23:07 PM , Rating: 2 But the better you make flash based games, to use your analogy, the better the games are. It's easy to understand that there are a lot of games that are addicting, and to add you can put hundreds if not thousands on one iPhone. How many can you put on a PSP? By omnicronx on 11/24/2008 1:27:34 PM , Rating: 2 How many can you put on a PSP? Depends ;) I have pretty much any NES/SNES game your can think of on my PSP ;) You just need to unlock it. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Chaser on 11/24/2008 2:42:28 PM , Rating: 2 I dont think its makes any difference what Apple is "touting the iPhone to be". It sells and developers are making a lot of money which perpetuates the cycle. Many of the apps are games. iPhone owners like the games. So whatever you'd like to call it application development for the iPhone is hot and doing exceptionally well. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 2:46:19 PM , Rating: 2 Large profit margins for minimal effort, who wouldn't like that? They retool a bunch of games for the platform and sell them for way too much. This is not a viable gaming platform alternative. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 5:42:20 PM , Rating: 2 Um, why not? Isn't that exactly what Nintendo does every generation (Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Zelda, etc)? I mean, it doesn't exactly suit the hardcore gamers, but that is irrelevant to this platform since the iPhone isn't going to target the hardcore gamers. Games like SimCity, Civilization, BeJeweled, Tetris, Scrabble, etc, would be perfect for the iPhone, and are probably going to set the standard. After that you can have the small avant garde studios, the big franchise studios, etc. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 5:58:12 PM , Rating: 2 Any Nintendo software for the Wii sells like crap. The DS on the other hand has original software galore and sells like hotcakes. Seems like there is a link, huh? Do you really think that once Flash gets to phones, people will still buy all these rehash games? Also if Apple doesn't jump on the wagon, do you think that everyone will still keep buying the thing? Winmo, Symbian and Android are all getting new Flash 10, do you really think that many people short of Mactards will put up with a reduced surfing experience? Then when they get it, when you want to play a 5-10 minute game, most of the time a flash game seems like a much better choice. Free vs. Pay, which do you chose? They would then have to put out much better games and with a touch only interface with some wiggle crap, not much to chose from. What sucks further is trying to do Flash games on the iPhone would suck, gimping it further. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 6:47:45 PM , Rating: 1 I guess it depends on how you define "sells like crap" for the Wii. Given that there are more Wii out there, the total number of copies of games like Sports, Fit, and Play are high, but the number of games sold per system is low, reflecting the different nature of gamers on the Wii than the XBox 360, for example. However when you take the tie ratio and multiply by the number of consoles, you get: XBox 360, 6.622m = 145m games Wii, 5.534.5m = 189m games (essentialy more copies of Wii Sports exist than XBoxes and nearly more copies of Wii Play than PS3s) PS3, 5.316.8m = 89.4m games So, on a pure numbers front, the Wii is selling more games than the other two platforms. So that debunks your point of Wii games sell like crap. The best selling games for the Wii outnumber the bestselling games for the two other consoles. Finally, Flash: Yes, people will buy iPhones because they are better phones, regardless of Flash. People still bought iPods despite a lack of AM/FM capability, voice recording capability, and higher price, why do you think Flash, of all things, will stop people from buying an iPhone? We've had this argument before. You think Flash is awesome, I think it isn't. No one wins. But we can talk about Free vs Pay; people will ultimately choose what is better, and developers will choose what will pay the bills. So I doubt anyone will ever code a free Flash game that can compete with Final Fantasy Tactics, though I know we already have Flash versions of Tetris and BeJeweled. My guess is both will flourish, Flash games are simpler and easier to create, pay games for the content rich type of games. RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 7:52:18 PM , Rating: 2 The point is that Wii hardware sales are high, software sales are not. This indicates that a lot of people fell for hype, then got bored of it very quickly and found very few of the games interesting. This is why by proportion, there are terrible sales. On top of that, check out the average scores of Wii games, they are horrid. Compare this to the averages of PC, 360, DS, PSP or 360, it is no contest. I never said Flash was awesome, I merely have said it is something people want. People complain about not having it on the G1 and the iPhone, they also hate having the crappy one on the other phones. But clearly if we wanted to ask someone's opinion on anything electronic or software based, you would be the last person anyone would ask. Who the hell is playing Final Fantasy Tactics on a phone for 10 minutes at a time? RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By michael2k on 11/24/2008 8:11:12 PM , Rating: 1 Um, did you read my attach rates? There were still more games sold for the Wii than the XBox 360. People are still buying games, even if it's less games per console. The shortfall is made up by the larger user base. More people bought Wii Sports than bought XBox 360s; which also translates to more people buying Wii Sports than Halo 3 or Gears of War or Resistance. Game scores for the Wii games may be lower, but that only shows that the game score system is broken; games with lower scores are outselling games with higher scores. How does that figure? Evidently there is no score for "Fun" or "Interesting", which is what is happening with the Wii. Finally... the people playing 10 minute pickup games of Final Fantasy Tactics? Just about everyone who bought the DS and Gameboy version, as that is how the game plays. You can quicksave at any point and each mission is roughly 10 minutes long. By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 10:12:29 PM , Rating: 2 Right, so having tons of consoles without selling software is a good tactic? Makes sense. Yes, the review system is broken, they need to fix it to work around badly designed games based off a gimmick. That makes perfect sense, cause then they can review iPhone games higher as well! I have yet to see anyone pick up a DS, Gameboy or PSP for 10 minutes. Very few people buy a phone to play games, I would venture to guess 100% of people who bought DS, Gameboy or PSP bought it to play games. Good estimate, don't you think? RE: A joke of a portable gaming device By omnicronx on 11/25/2008 9:30:27 AM , Rating: 2 The 360 has an attach rate of 7.5-8.1 (not 6.5) according to the most recent data, while the wii has an attach rate of 5.3-5.5 (the variations depend on where you look) Keep in mind that the above figure is for the Xbox 360 after September 2007 and for the PlayStation 3 and Nintendo Wii after September 2008. Also I would like to point out two things, #1 if you look closely at sites like gamasutra (where almost every site on the subject links too) you will see this at the bottom which makes me wonder what the hell they were counting, or if they just did not have the data pre sept 2007. This being said, the 8.1 mark seems far more reasonable, as they are missing some pretty obvious 360 sales(including halo 3 which just does not make sense). An attach rate of 8.1+ is definitely feasible if you count all 360 game sales, which I cannot find a reason why they would not, unless they are trying to manipulate the numbers. Who cares about sales after 23 months, Microsoft releasing the 360 early was all part of their business plan and thus the full 35 months should be counted. (a closer look at the site led me to find this statement tucked down at the bottom of the article "It is worth noting that Microsoft's current tie ratio after 35 months on the market is 8.1.") #2 I've added up the number many times and I cannot reach 5.5 games attach rate unless I include wii sports, its just not possible without it. (same goes for the 2.4 attach rate for first party games, its just not possible without wii sports) Obviously a sale is a sale, but it kind of skews the results a bit doesn't it? All in all, total game sales for both consoles is almost exactly the same, although the wii has been on the market less time (which is the only stat where we should take into account the time in which the product was on the market, attach rate should have no such limitation). This being said, MS still leads by far in attach rate, especially when you consider that there are almost twice as many wiis on the market, and that wii sports really should not be counted in the attach rate stat (or sales for that matter as it is already counted in hardware sales). The Wii is definitely catching up, but MS is still leaps and bounds ahead in terms of attach rate. By michael2k on 11/25/2008 12:12:58 PM , Rating: 2 The attach rate only describes how many games each consumer will buy, but still needs to factor in total game sales. If you use 8.1 for the XBox and about 22m XBoxes, you get 178.2 total games sold. If you use 5.5 for the Wii and 34.55m Wii, you get 190m sold. The Wii number includes Wii Sports, which I consider valid as many people buy it initially for Wii Sports (I did, my brother did, just about all my friends did). So using more recent numbers, the Wii still outsell the XBox in terms of consoles and games, though the attach rate is lower. More people buy less games, but the volume is high enough that the Wii's market is larger. Pity that third party developers put all their weight behind the XBox 360 and PS3, because it means the resources they have dedicated to the Wii won't actually come to fruition until sometime next year or the year after. Maybe you can explain why the attach rate is so crucial, because from my perspective it only tells you information about the target demographic: They buy a lot of games. More important to a developer is the number of consoles out (the target market size), the most popular games (the market leaders), and the missing games (market opportunities). The Wii is seriously deficit in many categories, which means if Nintendo doesn't get to them first, a third party might strike gold. My own Wii, I have Rabbids, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Endless Ocean, Animal Crossing, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Paper Mario, as well as the pack-in Sports. I skew the attach rate up, I'm sure there are plenty of people who skew it down, too. I don't even own Zelda, Metroid, and Excite Truck, and Wii Play, all also very popular games. By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 2:02:52 PM , Rating: 2 Attach rate has been shown to scale directly with time on market. So, the Xbox should have a higher attach rate than the Wii. Wii is coming up on two years on the market, the 360 is coming up on three. Logic says the Wii attach rate should be 2/3(ish) of the Xbox's. Hmm, 8.1\32=5.4 Sounds about right. That being said, I think it is bogus to include games like Wii Sports because the attache rate is meant to capture the post-hardware game purchases. But, then you'd have to ask the question on game bundles - how may would they actually have bought in the bundle? So, I suppose we have to live with the total game count. Also, most 360s came with a game you may or may not have wanted, as did PS3s. So, whatever. I do think it is impressive that the Xbox 2 years out had a 6.5 attach rate as opposed to the numbers two years out for the Wii and PS3. That advantage may be because they had a one year lead in the console generation and there were no other 7th gen consoles and games to choose from, or it just may equate to some advantage in the platform, games, or demographic. Either way, it is clearly a nice advantage to have. Last, one man's gimmick is another man's passion. (a little poetic adjustment there.) Personally, I love the way most of the Wii games I own digress from the more classic game-pad interface. I've never liked game pads, I merely find them adequate. Some of the games I have really do a good job, others are less successful. There are some shortcomings with the motion sensing in the Wii (actually being able to tell where you are pointing on the screen exactly, etc...) and the whole means by which they implement "mistakes" in the various games drives me up the wall. (There seems to be little consistency in when you hit the net or hit the ball out in Tennis, or why balls bounce over you in ping pong, etc...) They seem to capture one dimension very well in the games, but the other two are always fudged somehow. This needs improvement, but overall the gimmick works pretty well. Personally, I think force feedback is a total gimmick - I hate it, wish I could turn it off, don't get anything from it at all. But, I don't profess to impose my opinion on others, and it is pretty clear by the rapid adoption of this technology that others aren't interested in enforcing my opinion on themselves either. To each their own. By silversound on 11/24/2008 1:35:35 PM , Rating: 1 List of CPUs: Sony PSP Processor: MIPS CPU @ 222 or 333MHz (selectable) Nintendo DS Processor: two ARM CPUs (67MHz and 33MHz) Processor: ARM CPU @ 412MHz (532MHz in 2G iPod touch) I think ipod touch's cpu is the fastest in all the above devices By nhepker on 11/24/2008 2:00:40 PM , Rating: 3 And I suppose you also believe a Pentium D @ 3.6 ghz will outclass a Core 2 Duo @ 1.8 ghz? By bkslopper on 11/24/2008 6:11:03 PM , Rating: 2 No, but it'd be close since the Core 2 Duo was about 2x as efficient clock-for-clock. Both have 2 cores. By hadifa on 11/24/2008 6:38:20 PM , Rating: 2 If John Carmack says the iPhone is "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and Sony PSP combined," then probably it is. That said, I'm not sure if the quote about iPhone's prowess is talking about the device without the OS's overhead or not. I think the main issue with the iPhone as a all compassing gaming platform is lack of buttons. The DS has both buttons and touch so the developers have more input options and it shows when you see the variety of games available for DS. Does anyone know of how many hours you can play with an iPhone without a battery recharge? The PSP 2000 provides about 4-5 hours and the DS I heard to have over 15. By Gzus666 on 11/24/2008 10:16:50 PM , Rating: 2 Yes, I always talk to programmers when I want to know about hardware to hardware comparisons. What did you expect him to say about a platform his company is making a game for? "It is a pile of crap, but we are going to shovel some junk on it for some easy cash"? By michael2k on 11/25/2008 12:51:52 PM , Rating: 2 If you don't believe programmers and you don't believe PR, who do you believe? It sounds like you only believe yourself, which is awfully narcissistic. I mean, who would have to say, "The iPhone is a good gaming platform," before you would believe it? Not Sega, EA, Carmack, Will Wright, LucasArts, or Square-Enix moves you, yet on any other platform those are genre defining and unit-moving names. You dismiss them because they make money. Well, duh, if they wouldn't make money, then the platform is unviable! By Gzus666 on 11/25/2008 1:01:07 PM , Rating: 2 Once again, you fail to see the reasoning, surprise, surprise. A Programmer is not a hardware engineer, they are not the end all know all of this. They understand software, that is why they are programmers. Would you ask the baker on his opinion of plumbing problems? Jesus you are thick. By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 2:34:48 PM , Rating: 2 A better analogy is: Would you ask a Baker on his opinion of Ovens. The resounding answer is YES. Bakers rely on ovens to do their work, thus they are typically a BETTER judge than those who design and engineer ovens on which is the best oven. They actually USE them daily. This is why they have these things called customer surveys. You ask the people who use your products what they think because they are the ultimate judge and jury of your products. Would you ask a heterosexual woman which woman was the hottest? No, you'd ask a heterosexual male. Why, because they're the ones that are interested. Would you ask a car engineer which car was the best? No. They're likely biased towards their specific product, their primary evaluation basis is technical, and neither of those things sell cars to the consumer. Instead, you'd ask common drivers of cars which was the best. (Ever heard of consumer reports?) Would you ask a computer hardware engineer what CPU architecture was the best? NO NO NO. Why? Because the architecture is your primary evaluation basis. You think this architecture is better than that architecture. It may well be, but the OS and Applications running on that hardware are what determine the user experience, and THAT is what sells both software AND hardware. So, you ask common non-technical customers whether they feel like the iPhone as a gaming device is better/faster/slicker/insert value judgement here/etc... Point being, your technical knowledge of makes you a horrible judge of consumer opinion; and your clear distaste for dissenting opinions is a little disturbing. People like us (some technical knowledge, or in your case perhaps a great deal of technical knowledge) are historically bad predictors of public opinion. The mere fact that this guy clearly knows less about computer hardware than you do makes him a BETTER predictor of whether the iPhone will be a successful gaming platform. It is the curse of the expert to be forever dismayed by the actions of the less informed. By Gzus666 on 11/25/2008 2:57:30 PM , Rating: 2 You fail to see the analogy to begin with. Programmers don't know hardware well enough to make comparisons like "processor A is faster than Processor B because..." as they have no engineering or hardware background. Now, if the question was "does this software run better on Processor A or Processor B" then yes, they would be fantastic to ask for this. The point is that programmers will not have the knowledge for hardware comparisons. On top of that they all have vested interest in saying it is a good platform when they talk about it, otherwise they bite the hand that feeds them, which is quite rare in any business. Basically if someone is saying something good about a platform that they are working on and get paid from, I rarely trust their opinion. Apparently this whizzed past people and could be due to my wording, but it should be evident now what I was talking about. By ZmaxDP on 11/25/2008 4:33:17 PM , Rating: 2 I think most people got the implication that there is a financial relationship between developers and platform producers. However, most of the major developers also develop for more than one platform. So, if they say one is better than the other, and develop for both, then you can probably take their comment relatively faithfully. While I do understand that programmers typically lack the technical knowledge a hardware engineer does, hardware cannot be evaluated sans software. The purpose of the hardware is to run software, so from an end user perspective the performance of the software on the hardware is all that really matters. As such, you can't make performance based value judgments about hardware. All you can really do is make structural comparisons. How many and how wide are the FPUs on Architecture A vs. Architecture B. You can say that because A has twice the FPUs that B has, that A must be better. But, processors are never that simple. Comparing current AMD and Intel processors at this level does not yield the same clear cut performance analysis that running Cinebench on both architectures does. AMD had some significant "advantages" over the core 2 architecture when it was released, and the Intel architecture had it's own significant advantages. Yet, Core2 absolutely trounced AMD's processors in most desktop software tests. Why? Because the optimizations Intel made had a larger effect on the software performance than those that AMD had made in that particular iteration. (This isn't an Intel is better than AMD topic, so don't anyone even start. It's just one example) Ultimately, independent review sites are much better at answering the question "does this software run faster/better on hardware A than on hardware B." Far more so than the developers because they have no financial relationship. The question we're asking here is deeper than that though. It isn't just "is Zelda faster on the iPhone than on the DS?" because that comparison is meaningless because of the hardware and software differences. Like it or not, the middleman in this case is the Developer. They have the metrics best able to answer this question (we had to reduce the polygon count on the iPhone because it couldn't handle it.). What we need is a cross platform developer to say: We made this game for all three platforms. Here are the scene statistics limitations for each hardware/OS combination. That still won't answer which hardware configuration is generally faster, I know. But, that was never the question. The question was is it fast enough to run games that would be compelling enough to gain market share from the portable gaming market. (DS, PSP, etc...) If you can get similar frame rates at similar quality out of all three platforms, then the answer is going to be Yes to the fast enough question. That still leaves the UI question up for debate, along with the price argument, the time spent gaming argument, etc.... We'll still have plenty to disagree about. And then, in about 24 months we'll probably have enough consumer data to actually call whether the iPhone/Touch was a successful gaming platform and likely discover that all our arguments were moot, and we were all probably wrong anyway. It will probably be right in the middle of a complete failure and a stand out success. But fortunately, by then they'll release the iTalk/Feel model and proclaim it will gain 50% market share in the portable gaming market and we can start all over again... By Gzus666 on 11/25/2008 5:39:09 PM , Rating: 2 I agree with most of this except hardware can be evaluated by hardware engineers side to side based on throughput, etc. The problem in the real world becomes software and instruction sets and whatever other hardware people put into things. Intel rewrote their processor instruction sets for the Core 2 line and it clearly shows they did it right. Even with AMDs advantages, they couldn't touch the Core 2. As for the futility of the argument, isn't that half the fun? By helios220 on 11/24/2008 2:05:41 PM , Rating: 2 It's been a little while, but I believe the iPhone(s) and iPod touch revisions all actually use the same CPU, a 620MHz ARM processor. The processor is underclocked in all devices, I'd imagine primarily to increase battery life as underclocking the processor reduces power draw. I'd guess the difference in the extent of the underclocking between devices is all about the overall battery life of the system, on the iPhones you have to power all of those extra radios, cellular/edge, 3G, bluetooth, and wifi, while on the iTouch you just have wifi which frees you up to draw more current on the processor and still have a respectable battery life. By StraightPipe on 11/24/2008 3:57:03 PM , Rating: 2 If you want to compare ipod vs iphone (hehe, Apples to Apples) then it's fair to measure MHz, because they have very similar operating systems, and thus similar overhead. but the PSP will slaughter the gaming performance of an iphone with only half the MHz, because the OS is much more effecient. As mentioned above you cant really compare MHz when you are looking at different architectures, and operating systems. It's a bit like comparing 2 cars and saying car B must be faster since it has more Horse Power than car A. You're overlooking the fact that Car A may be lighter, and thus has less overhead. By Enigmatic on 11/24/2008 7:55:43 PM , Rating: 2 Makes sense that the 2G touch would be faster. Crash Bandicoot Racing lags on my buddy's iPhone 3G by quite a bit but runs pretty smooth on my 2G touch. By SlyNine on 11/25/2008 6:05:46 AM , Rating: 2 Its more like saying car A. is faster because it's RPM's go up to 7k where car B. Only goes up to 6k. If Intel has proved anything, its that Mhz don't mean anything. The fact that people can still buy in to this just astounds me. Its like who ever arguing about the PowerVR. But forgets that just because it says powerVR doesn't mean it has 4 times faster buss to connect to the VRam or 4x the Vram or even all the functions of the video card are enabled or are even close to that 11 year old architecture. By his standard if I overclock a Geforce 256 to 3ghz it's going to be a lot faster then the Geforce 260 , Hell the 260 is only 4 points faster ... By Indianapolis on 11/24/2008 12:43:57 PM , Rating: 5 [crickets chirping] RE: Stunning By SlyNine on 11/25/2008 6:08:07 AM , Rating: 2 then it appears a frog got involved and all hell broke loose. Google Earth By CZroe on 11/25/2008 3:54:46 PM , Rating: 2 I just installed Google Earth on my iPhone last night and I have one thing to say: SLOW. I'd like to see it on an iPod Touch 2.0 Related Articles	http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13507	<urn:uuid:f26ad17a-f437-4530-a4a6-7b66a39d7156>	en	0.963789	0.338693
Nation Topics - Law \| The Nation Topic Page News and Features On November 7, voters in Alabama erased from that state's Constitution a provision dating from 1901 that declared that "the legislature shall never pass any law to authorize or legalize any marriage between any white person and a Negro, or descendant of a Negro." This declaration represented in part a desire by white supremacists to express as fully as possible their intention to expunge the racially egalitarian symbols, hopes and reforms of Reconstruction. Although Alabama had never enacted a law expressly authorizing interracial marriage, in 1872 the state's Supreme Court did invalidate the law that prohibited such unions. But it promptly reversed itself in 1877 when white supremacists regained power. The Alabama Constitution's disapproval of interracial marriage, however, had still deeper roots. It stemmed from the presumption that white men had the authority to dictate whom, in racial terms, a person could and could not marry. It was also rooted in the belief that certain segments of the population were simply too degraded to be eligible as partners in marriage with whites. At one point or another, forty states prohibited marriage across racial lines. In all of them blacks were stigmatized as matrimonial untouchables. In several, "Mongolians" (people of Japanese or Chinese ancestry), "Malays" (Filipinos) and Native Americans were also placed beyond the pale of acceptability. Rationales for barring interracial marriage are useful to consider, especially since some of them echo so resonantly justifications voiced today by defenders of prohibitions against same-sex marriage. One rationale for barring interracial marriages was that the progeny of such matches would be incapable of procreating. Another was that God did not intend for the races to mix. Another was that colored people, especially blacks, are irredeemably inferior to whites and pose a terrible risk of contamination. The Negrophobic Thomas Dixon spoke for many white supremacists when he warned in his novel The Leopard's Spots that "this Republic can have no future if racial lines are broken and its proud citizenry sinks to the level of a mongrel breed." A single drop of Negro blood, he maintained apocalyptically, "kinks the hair, flattens the nose, then the lip, puts out the light of intellect, and lights the fires of brutal passions." Although opponents of prohibitions on interracial marriage have waged struggles in many forums (e.g., academia, the churches, journalism), two in particular have been decisive. One is the courtroom. In 1967 in the most aptly titled case in American history--Loving v. The Commonwealth of Virginia--the United States Supreme Court ruled that prohibitions against interracial marriage violated the equal protection and due process clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment. (Although much credit is lavished on the Court's decision, it bears noting that nineteen years earlier, in 1948, the Supreme Court of California had reached the same conclusion in an extraordinary, albeit neglected, opinion by Justice Roger Traynor.) When the federal Supreme Court struck down Jim Crow laws at the marriage altar, it relied on the massive change in public attitudes reflected and nourished by Brown v. Board of Education (1954), Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" address (1963), the Civil Rights Act (1964) and the Voting Rights Act (1965). The Court also relied on the fact that by 1967, only sixteen states, in one region of the country, continued to retain laws prohibiting interracial marriage. This highlights the importance of the second major forum in which opponents of racial bars pressed their struggle: state legislatures. Between World War II and the Civil Rights Revolution, scores of state legislatures repealed bans against interracial marriage, thereby laying the moral, social and political groundwork for the Loving decision. Rarely will any court truly be a pioneer. Much more typically judges act in support of a development that is already well under way. Unlike opponents of Brown v. Board of Education, antagonists of Loving were unable to mount anything like "massive resistance." They neither rioted, nor promulgated Congressional manifestoes condemning the Court, nor closed down marriage bureaus to prevent the desegregation of matrimony. There was, however, some opposition. In 1970, for example, a judge near Fort McClellan, Alabama, denied on racial grounds a marriage license to a white soldier and his black fiancée. This prompted a lawsuit initiated by the US Justice Department that led to the invalidation of Alabama's statute prohibiting interracial marriage. Yet the Alabama constitutional provision prohibiting the enactment of any law expressly authorizing black-white interracial marriage remained intact until the recent referendum. That an expression of official opposition to interracial marriage remained a part of the Alabama Constitution for so long reflects the fear and loathing of black-white intimacy that remains a potent force in American culture. Sobering, too, was the closeness of the vote; 40 percent of the Alabama electorate voted against removing the obnoxious prohibition. Still, given the rootedness of segregation at the marriage altar, the ultimate outcome of the referendum should be applauded. The complete erasure of state-sponsored stigmatization of interracial marriage is an important achievement in our struggle for racial justice and harmony. Even the relatively better-informed mainstream accounts fail to convey the brutality of this policy. There are a number of excellent news outlets for those who want unjaundiced reporting. The website for Middle East Research and Information Project is trustworthy (www.merip.org), as is the Electronic Intifada (electronicintifada.net/new.html). For the latter, the intro essay by Nigel Parry gives a useful overview of media coverage. Electronic Intifada also has links to other sites, as does ZNet's Mideast Watch (www.zmag.org/meastwatch/meastwat.htm). Particularly comprehensive is Birzeit University's (www.birzeit.edu/links). Fair Game A corporate antiviolence program targets students who don't fit in. As the media obsessed over the seesaw presidential poll, voters across the country quietly made their choices on more than 200 disparate ballot measures and initiatives. For progressives the results are--as usual--mixed. In Missouri corporate opponents--including Anheuser-Busch, KC Power & Light, Hallmark Cards and the Missouri Association of Realtors--poured hundreds of thousands into their victorious antireform campaign. Californians, meanwhile, approved Proposition 34, billed as campaign reform but actually cooked up by the establishment to block real reform. The returns on these three measures should compel campaign finance reform activists to rethink their strategies. These are significant and stinging defeats. Colorado voters defeated the so-called informed consent measure on abortion, but Arizona and Nebraska approved a ban on same-sex marriages and civil unions. In Maine a measure to protect gays from discrimination was defeated. In Oregon the notorious Measure 9, which outlaws "teaching" homosexuality in schools, failed. Oregonians also rejected two antiunion "paycheck protection" measures, which the state labor federation had vigorously fought. DNA testing can convict the guilty; it can also destroy the privacy of millions. In New Mexico, communists who fail to register their party affiliation with the state commit a felony. Under New Mexico's DNA databanking law, if they are caught they are required to submit a DNA sample to the department of public safety. In Idaho, consensual sodomy with a partner other than your spouse constitutes a sex-crime felony. Those unfortunate enough to be caught in the act are similarly required by law to submit a tissue sample to the state's DNA databank for the purposes of preventing future sex crimes. And if Governor George Pataki is successful in the next legislative session, New York will begin collecting genetic material from any person convicted of a misdemeanor, such as resisting arrest or disorderly conduct as a result of peaceful civil disobedience. In an age of biotechnology and computers, we are all but a needle-stick away from disclosing hereditary-disease susceptibilities, familial relationships and identifying information. Anyone who values privacy should therefore be concerned that US law-enforcement agencies are amassing ever larger portions of the general population's DNA while neglecting to implement measures that would protect the privacy and presumptive innocence of citizens. And because DNA evidence is currently enjoying an unprecedented degree of bipartisan enthusiasm, these gradual developments have tended to be sheltered from the criticism that might otherwise confront such policies. Not that DNA evidence's celebrity isn't well deserved. It is many rape victims' best hope for identifying their assailants and law enforcement's most penetrating method of apprehending serial offenders. It can be credited with triggering a re-examination of the nation's capital punishment system by exonerating eight death-row inmates. Like its predecessor, the fingerprint, DNA profiles are a reliable means of identifying individuals (except in the case of identical twins). But glib analogies to fingerprints obscure important differences. DNA samples can reveal far more information than fingerprints, including sensitive medical conditions, traits or a person's biological parentage. In addition, while fingerprints are unique to every individual, genetic profiles are partially shared among blood relatives. Thus, databanks contain identifying information on nonoffending relatives of people explicitly covered by databanking statutes. Finally, because we shed our genetic calling cards in a trail of hair follicles, skin flecks, saliva aerosols and finger smudges, DNA can also provide a trace of our activities. DNA databanks are premised on statistics indicating that individuals convicted of a serious violent offense often commit other violent offenses that leave behind incriminating DNA. Tissue samples, usually in the form of a blood sample or cheek swab, are thus collected from offenders covered by their state's databank laws and are analyzed using a technique called "profiling," which detects genetic variations among individuals that, at least as currently understood by geneticists, have no biological function. The resulting data are then computerized so that profiles produced from crime-scene samples can be compared with those already in the database, allowing authorities to eliminate certain suspects or target those whose profiles match. In effect, databanks provide a means of genetically frisking anyone who has ever committed a covered offense for any crime in which DNA has been recovered. As of June 1998 all fifty states had enacted statutes authorizing state and local law-enforcement agencies to operate criminal DNA databases and to pool their DNA profiles into a national FBI-operated database called CODIS (Combined DNA Identification System). Though the earliest laws targeted convicted violent sexual felons, civil libertarians looked to the history of Social Security numbers, fingerprinting and drug-testing to warn of an inevitable migration of the technique from convict to suspect terrain. A decade later, as many states have passed laws to cover new offender categories, the Cassandras appear to have been vindicated. Delaware, for instance, requires submission of genetic samples for all those who have committed offenses against children, which include selling tobacco or tattooing minors without the consent of a guardian. Twenty-three states cover certain categories of misdemeanors, and seven states have enacted legislation that would require DNA submission for any felony, which extends DNA databanking into realms such as perjury, larceny, bribery and fraud. Thus, in addition to New Mexico's statute covering unregistered communists, Alabama's code covers tax evaders and Virginia's targets people who deface brands or marks on timber. Experts like CODIS program director Steve Niezgoda have predicted that all states will eventually amend their statutes to cover all felonies; four states have already done so, and another three have recently considered or will consider such an expansion in their next legislative sessions. Among these three, New York's proposal stands out as by far the nation's most comprehensive, targeting all convicted felons and class-A misdemeanants. DNA databanking laws are furthermore part of the ferment that is corroding the century-old juvenile justice system that treats minors as a category of offenders separate from adults. More than half of all states authorize inclusion of DNA profiles collected from juveniles in their databanks. In contrast to the convention of sealing or erasing juvenile criminal records after a period of time--a practice grounded on a rehabilitative ideal--none of the statutes require states to remove juvenile DNA profiles from their databanks, and one (Arizona's) expressly prohibits their removal. Several states have revised their original legislation to cover juvenile offenders as well. The spread of DNA databanking to minors is especially troubling when considered against the racial inequities that plague the juvenile justice system. According to Vincent Schiraldi, president of the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, "When you control for poverty, white and black [teens] commit the same amount of violent crime, [but] blacks are arrested at four times the rate of whites and imprisoned at seven times the rate of whites. So don't think for a second this databank will be race-neutral. This policy will grossly overrepresent criminal behavior by blacks and exacerbate disparities in incarceration because [databanks are] going to be used against people." An indirect consequence of expanding DNA databanks is their partial coverage of a larger proportion of nonoffending relatives as well. Because individuals share portions of their DNA with biological relatives--half in the case of siblings, parents and children--an incomplete match between a databanked person's profile and that of a crime-scene sample might lead investigators to question an individual's immediate family. The effect of such profiling by proxy is that identifying information about nonoffenders is present in criminal databank systems as well; in effect, if you have a relative whose profile has been databanked, you're likely to be partially genetically frisked as well. A critical unresolved question about current databanking practices concerns what law-enforcement agencies actually do with their frozen vials of human tissue. The human genome contains approximately 100,000 different genes, many of which are associated with specific illnesses. Though DNA profiles have few applications beyond linking individuals to biological specimens, the actual tissue samples submitted by offenders could in principle be analyzed for genetic traits ranging from sickle-cell anemia to schizophrenia. Since evolving typing techniques may one day outmode profiles currently being entered into computers, more than half of US states are authorized or required by law to archive their samples so they can be retested. This sustains the possibility that samples may eventually be used for purposes other than profiling. Most statutes restrict sample use to "law enforcement"--a term whose broadness in this context can only be described as oceanic. Twenty states allow law-enforcement agencies to use samples for research on improving forensic techniques, which could mean searching banked DNA samples for genetic predictors of recidivism, pedophilia or aggression. One Massachusetts legislator publicly advocated such a use, and Tom Callaghan, program manager of the FBI's Federal Convicted Offender DNA Database, refused to rule out such a possibility when pressed at a National Institute of Justice Symposium in September 1999. Moreover, tissue repositories created by databanks would provide genetics researchers with congenial waters in which to trawl for genes thought to be involved in criminal behavior. Alabama's databanking law brushes perilously close to this by authorizing release of anonymous DNA population data collected by law-enforcement authorities to "assist in other humanitarian endeavors including, but not limited to, educational research or medical research or development." Experimenting with offender DNA in this way would violate basic tenets of biomedical ethics by using tissues that were not obtained by consent for purposes that arguably run counter to the interests of the research subject. "If [law-enforcement authorities] want to do research," argues Boston University bioethicist George Annas, "they should follow the same rules everyone else has to follow in terms of informed consent and privacy.... Criminals have privacy rights like everyone else." As such, using databanked samples for research without consent also runs counter to recommendations by the American College of Medical Genetics. Such research authorizations are especially troubling in light of this nation's checkered history of experimentation on prisoners. In 1875 social reformer and prison inspector Richard Dugdale wrote his famous study of the Jukes family after he noticed a disproportionate number of inmates with that last name. The availability of banked criminals' tissues may prove a valuable resource should society's interest in genetic explanations for social ills be renewed. Legal challenges of DNA database laws have generally failed and are therefore unlikely to stem their widening sweep. Practices in Britain, the first country to enlist DNA in its crime-fighting cavalry, may portend dramatically widened use of databanking in the United States. Britain's Forensic Science Service is authorized to collect DNA samples from anyone questioned about or suspected of any offense for which a person could be detained. As of July 1999, England had collected 547,000 DNA samples; the effort was projected to reach 30 percent of British men eventually. In addition, England has conducted at least eighty "intelligence-based screens"--the official term for what is colloquially called a "genetic sweep"--in which the general population is asked to submit DNA samples to help police investigate a particular crime. Although samples are provided voluntarily, social pressures, heavy media coverage and the concern that failure to submit a sample may itself invoke police suspicion undermine the notion of submissions being truly consensual. Other countries, including Canada and Germany, have conducted similar sweeps, and while some argue that the Fourth Amendment would probably bar such practices in the United States, privacy watchdogs like New York Civil Liberties Union's executive director Norman Siegel caution that "Fourth Amendment challenges [of databanks] have not been successful; these are the only reference points we have [for predicting how courts will rule on genetic sweeps], and they're not promising." The next battle between civil libertarians and law-enforcement authorities concerning DNA databanking is likely to concern the leap from profiling convicted felons to arrestees. Former NYPD chief Howard Safir has championed arrestee profiling, and US Attorney General Janet Reno has begun to explore the implications of such a policy by querying a National Institute of Justice commission. Arrestee profiling would dramatically broaden the reach of DNA databanking and, if not subject to careful restrictions, would empower law-enforcement authorities to arrest people for minor offenses, collect a tissue sample and search their databases for a match between the arrestee's profile and another crime-scene sample. Despite widespread enthusiasm in law-enforcement circles, profiling on such a scale isn't likely to be implemented anytime soon, given the backlog of tissue samples awaiting profile analysis and the high costs (at least $100 per sample). Nevertheless, one state (Louisiana) profiles arrestees for sexual offenses, and advancing automation technologies are likely to erode these fiscal barriers. Though this is reason for despair among privacy advocates, there are a few hopeful signs among the various statutes. Twenty-seven states (and the federal government), for example, prohibit disclosure of genetic materials or information to unauthorized third parties. Wisconsin requires that law-enforcement authorities eliminate DNA samples of convicted persons after profiling is complete, and six states (Indiana, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont and Wyoming) restrict what authorities can do with collected DNA by prohibiting analysis of genetic mutations that could predict a person's traits. But in an environment where the political leaders most likely to raise objections to such policies are often silenced by a fear of appearing to be soft on crime, the stability of these protections remains to be seen. Imagining a fair and protective system for using DNA evidence in the criminal justice system isn't all that difficult. People claiming innocence should be given opportunities to volunteer DNA to clear their name. For them--and more broadly for the credibility of the criminal justice system--DNA forensic technology may be the only life vest within reach. Upon overturning a conviction, volunteered DNA samples and profiles should be promptly destroyed, preserving the individual's presumptive innocence. For people convicted of serious violent offenses and beyond the reach of such exculpatory evidence, however, the trade-off between privacy and public interest may tilt toward favoring a DNA databanking system with strong privacy protections, including sample destruction after profiling and prohibitions on uses other than comparing profiles with those collected from crime scenes. And finally, to protect the presumptive innocence of convicted offenders' family members, states should impose stringent requirements for when a match between a crime-scene sample and a databanked profile can trigger an investigation. Privacy is a zero-sum entity: The extension of law-enforcement authorities' genetic gaze comes directly at the expense of an individual's power to withhold such information. Where most human DNA handling once occurred in medical clinics and research laboratories--institutions that are generally subject to public oversight and cautious (if imperfect) ethical review--DNA has now entered a territory not particularly distinguished for its ethical circumspection. States are not providing many reasons for the public to be confident that they are taking these concerns seriously; perhaps of even greater concern, negligence in protecting the privacy of offenders and criminal suspects may acclimate a public to weak protections of genetic materials. As the predictive powers of genetic technologies are refined, this could have grievous consequences for everyone. Just how remote the capital-punishment rhetoric of this campaign is from reality is suggested by a ruling from the Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in the case of Calvin Burdine, who sits on death row in Huntsville, Texas. Burdine's court-appointed lawyer, Joe Cannon, slept through long stretches of his trial, a practice frequently ratified by Texas courts [see Bruce Shapiro, "Sleeping Lawyer Syndrome," April 7, 1997]. Federal District Judge David Hittner threw out Burdine's conviction, but on October 27 a Fifth Circuit appellate panel reinstated it. The two-judge majority--including Judge Edith Jones, a favorite Republican prospect for the Supreme Court--claimed that the record failed to show whether the lawyer's naps came during "critical" phases of the life-or-death proceeding. The panel's lone dissenter, Judge Fortunato Benavides, wrote that the circumstance of Burdine's trial "shocks the conscience." Clearly, we need a national timeout on executions. Thirty-five cities nationwide--most recently Greensboro and five other municipalities in conservative North Carolina--have endorsed such a moratorium. As legal scholar Anthony Amsterdam said in October in his keynote address to the American Bar Association's annual convention, the system is "fatally unjust and prone to error." And that also applies to the federal court system, in which a recent study showed widespread racial bias in death sentences. The first federal execution since the Kennedy years is set for December unless President Clinton intervenes, as he certainly should. Senators Carl Levin and Russ Feingold and Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. have introduced legislation that, in varying ways, would put executions on hold. Their bills deserve vigorous support. A postscript to the Bush-Gore deterrence theory: According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, released in October, while violent crime is declining nationwide, it is up in the execution capital of the country, Texas. In their 1996 book The Next War, former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and Peter Schweitzer concoct some troubling scenarios they imagine could confront the United States. One is with Mexico: It's 1999, and a radical nationalist comes to power with the assistance of drug traffickers, resulting in a flood of migrants and drugs across the US boundary. In response, the Pentagon sends 60,000 troops to the border region. Tensions between the two countries mount over the next few years, leading to a full-scale US invasion of Mexico that restores law and order within six months. In constructing this nightmare scenario, the authors draw on a long history of depicting undesired immigrants as invading hordes and the international boundary as a line of defense. Peter Andreas recounts this hawkish vision in his provocative and highly persuasive Border Games: Policing the US-Mexico Divide. He argues that predictions of an inevitable march toward greater levels of militarization in the region--of which the Weinberger/Schweitzer vision is the most extreme--ignore the necessity of maintaining a porous boundary because of the significant and intensifying levels of economic integration between the United States and Mexico. Still, as part of the US government's war on drugs and "illegal" immigrants in the border region, the enforcement regime has grown dramatically over the past two decades, as chronicled by Andreas. The antidrug budget of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, for example, rose 164 percent between fiscal years 1990 and 1997, while the overall budget for the INS nearly tripled between FY 1993 and 1999, from $1.5 billion to $4.2 billion, with border enforcement the biggest growth area. At the same time, transboundary trade has reached unprecedented heights because of the 1994 implementation of NAFTA. This exacerbates the challenge of "enforcement." As a 1999 government report cautioned, "Rapidly growing commerce between the United States and Mexico will complicate our efforts to keep drugs out of cross-border traffic." With a daily average of 220,000 vehicles now crossing into the United States from Mexico--and only nine large tractor-trailers loaded with cocaine required to satisfy annual domestic demand in the United States--the task facing US authorities is daunting. Given such practical contradictions, it's the creation of an image of boundary control that has been most significant. As Andreas explains--and this is his well-written book's central point--the escalation of border enforcement is less about deterring drugs and migrants than it is about symbolism. In other words, state elites are more concerned about giving a good performance for reasons of domestic political consumption than they are about realizing the stated goals of boundary enforcement. In fact, the political-economic costs of too much success serve to limit enforcement. As one high-level US Customs official cited in Border Games stated, "If we examined every truck for narcotics arriving into the United States along the Southwest border.... Customs would back up the truck traffic bumper-to-bumper into Mexico City in just two weeks--15.8 days.... That's 1,177 miles of trucks, end to end." To the extent that there is an appearance of success, however (statistics showing more interdiction, for example), it helps to realize a variety of political agendas. As Andreas contends, "Regardless of its deterrent effect, the escalation of enforcement efforts has helped to fend off political attacks and kept the drug issue from derailing the broader process of economic integration." Thus, in the case of NAFTA, the deceptive image (one carefully crafted with the Clinton White House) that Mexico under Carlos Salinas de Gortari was having significant success in the binational war on drugs facilitated a reluctant Congress's passage of NAFTA. Moreover, the Administration promised that NAFTA would bring even greater levels of transboundary cooperation in the drug war and lead to more resources for boundary enforcement. NAFTA also intertwined with the Administration's offensive against unauthorized immigration (a matter Andreas does not discuss), which was, in part, the US answer to massive disruption in Mexico's rural and small-business sectors brought about by growing economic liberalization. While Administration officials promoted NAFTA as a boundary-control tool (by creating better, high-paying jobs in Mexico, went the argument, NAFTA would lead to less immigration from Mexico to the United States), they also understood that NAFTA would intensify pressures to migrate among Mexicans displaced in the name of economic efficiency. As INS Commissioner Doris Meissner argued to Congress in November 1993, "Responding to the likely short- to medium-term impacts of NAFTA will require strengthening our enforcement efforts along the border." For Andreas, specific developments are often the "unintended feedback effects of past policy choices" as much as the result of particular bureaucratic incentives and rewards. The 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), for example, led to the legalization of large numbers of unauthorized immigrants as a way of ultimately reducing unsanctioned immigration. IRCA's main effect, however, was "to reinforce and expand already well-established cross-border migration networks" and to create a booming business in fraudulent documents. These "perverse consequences" laid the foundation for the anti-immigrant backlash that emerged in the early 1990s--most vociferously in California, a state especially hard hit by the recession and feeling the effects of a rapidly changing population due to immigration. In advancing this argument, Andreas cautions that his goal is "not to provide a general explanation of the anti-illegal immigration backlash." Rather, he seeks to show how political and bureaucratic entrepreneurs partially whipped up public sentiment and channeled it "to focus on the border as both the source of the problem and the most appropriate site of the policy solution." While there is much merit in such an approach and the explanation that flows from it, it is insufficient. First, as many have argued, the backlash of the 1990s was not simply against "illegal" immigrants but, to a large degree, against immigrants in general--especially the nonwhite, non-English speaking and the relatively poor. Moreover, as Andreas shows in a stimulating chapter that compares and contrasts similar developments along the Germany/Poland and Spain/Morocco boundaries, the seeming paradox of "a borderless economy and a barricaded border" is evidenced along boundaries that unite and divide rich and poor in other parts of the world. Given the locales of these developments and their uneven impacts on different social groups, there is need for another type of explanation. How does one explain the differential treatment of the interests of the rich (enhanced trading opportunities) and those of the poor (those compelled by conditions to migrate and work without authorization)? It is in this area that Grace Chang is of great help. Disposable Domestics offers a refreshingly new perspective on immigration control. Chang's tone is overtly political and more polemical than that of Andreas, but her approach is equally rigorous. Her goal is to make poor immigrant women visible, to humanize them, to highlight their contributions and tribulations, and to show them as actively trying to contest their conditions of subjugation. Chang argues persuasively that poor immigrant women--largely Third Worlders--have become a central focus of "public scrutiny and media distortion, and the main targets of immigration regulation and labor control" in the United States. To show the continuity between past and present, she provides an overview of the long history of imagery portraying immigrant women as undeserving users of welfare services and hyperfertile breeders of children. In doing so, she makes an invaluable contribution, showing how the regulation of immigration and labor is inextricably tied to matters of gender, as well as to those of class, race and nationality. The author effectively challenges mainstream assumptions that surround the immigration debate. For example, she argues that studies attempting to measure the costs and benefits of immigration--regardless of their findings or the agendas behind them--ultimately reduce immigrants to commodities or investments. Chang sides with an emerging consensus among immigrant advocates that sees such studies as missing the point, and instead emphasizes the human and worker rights of all immigrants. In this regard, she criticizes immigrant advocates who have fallen into the trap of dividing immigrants between good ("legal") and bad ("illegal"). Chang highlights the folly of this approach in recounting the trials of Zoë Baird, Clinton's first nominee for Attorney General. When it came to light that she employed two undocumented immigrants as domestic servants--a common "crime" among two-career, professional couples--her nomination was sunk. What led to public outrage, according to Chang, was more the "resentment that this practice was so easily accessible to the more privileged classes while other working-class mothers struggled to find any child care," rather than the flouting of the law per se. Throughout, Chang gives us moving accounts of gross exploitation of immigrant women working as domestics or caretakers, showing that relatively well-off households often look specifically for "illegals" to save money and to facilitate their privileged lives. Indeed, "the advances of many middle-class white women in the workforce have been largely predicated on the exploitation of poor, immigrant women." For Chang, this explains why "the major women's groups were conspicuously silent during Baird's confirmation hearings"--a manifestation of the racial and class privileges their members enjoy. Recent antiwelfare efforts in the United States, which Chang explores in another provocative chapter, also rely on the exploitation and scapegoating of immigrant women. She compares representations of poor women--native and immigrant--used both in the promotion of welfare "reform" and in efforts to regulate undocumented working women. In both cases, poor women are portrayed as exploiters of the system (to facilitate their hyperfertility) and as criminals--either as welfare cheats or as "illegals." For welfare mothers, the resulting backlash is "workfare"--a program that forces them to work (outside their homes, under the assumption that raising children is neither work nor a benefit to society), but not for a wage. They work for their welfare benefits instead, a remuneration usually far below what they would earn as employees. Meanwhile, government officials, corporate spokespersons and household employers mask their exploitation of low-wage employees as beneficence, purportedly providing them with opportunities, training and preparation, and the ability to assimilate into respectable society. The war on the poor (welfare reform) and that against unauthorized immigrants are also sometimes functionally tied. Virginia's state office of social services, for example, cooperated with the INS to open up jobs held by "illegals" for workfare participants. This, along with INS raids of workplaces in the midst of unionization drives, according to Chang, is a growing trend. It is far from clear, however--at least on the basis of the anecdotal evidence Chang presents--that such events indicate a long-term, upward trend. Indeed, while anti-union employers have long used the INS to undermine immigrant-worker organizing, with a number of especially outrageous incidents taking place in the late 1990s, those appear to have diminished over the last couple of years, apparently due to the outcry from union, immigration and human rights activists. In part, the discrepancy reflects the fact that Chang wrote the book--more a collection of essays stitched together--over several years, with some of the chapters having appeared in previous publications. Chang tends to see the factors that create and drive immigration and the mistreatment of low-wage immigrant workers as derivative of an overarching economic logic and a resulting set of intentional, goal-oriented practices. Thus, the workfare/INS-raid nexus illustrates the "true function" of the INS: "to regulate the movement, availability, and independence of migrant labor." More generally, immigration "is carefully orchestrated--that is, desired, planned, compelled, managed, accelerated, slowed and periodically stopped--by the direct actions of US interests, including the government as state and as employer, private employers, and corporations." United States elites keep Mexico and other countries in "debt bondage" so that they "must surrender their citizens, especially women, as migrant laborers to First World nations." And the purpose of California's Proposition 187, which would have eliminated public health, education and social services for unauthorized immigrants, is "perhaps" to mold immigrant children into a "category entirely of super-exploitable workers--those with no access to language or other skills and, most of all, no access to a status even remotely resembling citizenship that might allow them the safety to organize." Such contentions imply a level of unity within the state and coherency in thought among economic and political actors (who are seemingly one and the same) that simply do not exist. They also downplay the agency of immigrants--who appear to be mere pawns of larger forces--and factors internal to their countries of origin driving immigration. Finally, such economic reductionism is puzzling given Chang's emphasis on race, gender and nationality. It seems at times, however, that she thinks that these are mere tools for highly rational, all-knowing and all-powerful economic elites. This is why we need to appreciate the autonomous roles of race-, class-, gender- and nation-based ideologies in informing much of the anti-immigrant sentiment--factors that do not always dovetail with the interests of capital. Indeed, those elements are frequently at cross purposes. More than anything, anti-immigrant initiatives over the past thirty years have been the work of opportunistic and/or entrepreneurial elected officials, state bureaucrats and the cultural right--often small grassroots organizations and right-wing think tanks--rather than the business sector. Historically, capital has been generally pro-immigration. As the New York Journal of Commerce gushed in 1892, "Men, like cows, are expensive to raise and a gift of either should be gladly received. And a man can be put to more valuable use than a cow." Today, the Wall Street Journal advocates the elimination of border controls for labor. While this probably does not represent the view of most capitalists, it is significant nonetheless. And in the case of Proposition 187--as Chang reports--California employers, while collectively failing to take a public stand on the measure, generally opposed it for fear that they had much to lose if it passed. That said, the author is undoubtedly right to castigate employers for doing little or nothing to stand up for the rights of immigrants from whose labor, and from whose politically induced marginalization, they profit. Given the divergent emphases and approaches of Andreas and Chang, very different solutions emerge from their arguments. Andreas criticizes the overemphasis on the supply side of unauthorized immigration and drugs. In terms of immigrants, for example, he observes that among wealthy countries, the United States "imposes the toughest penalties on the smuggling of migrants and related activities yet is among the most lenient with those who employ them." Similarly, he criticizes the scant resources available for enforcing existing workplace rules, which would undermine the ability of employers to exploit unauthorized workers, and he chides Congress for failing to develop a forgery-proof identity card system. (His stand on continued drug policing in the border region is less clear, although he calls for framing the drug problem as one of public health rather than law enforcement.) Andreas seems resigned to the continued emphasis on border controls, too, despite demonstrating their brilliant failure. As one INS official he quotes explained, "The border is easy money politically. But the interior is a political minefield." Ending the border buildup is also a political minefield--one Andreas seems unwilling to enter. He is decidedly critical of the border status quo and aware of the hardships it causes (a topic to which he gives insufficient attention), but he critiques it on its own terms. In this regard, he does not stray outside the mainstream confines of debate. A law-enforcement approach to unauthorized immigration is destined to fail. The ties between the United States and Mexico (and increasingly much of Latin America) are too strong, migrants are too resourceful and creative, and Americans are too resistant to the types of police-state measures that would prove necessary, to reduce unsanctioned immigration significantly. A far more effective and humane approach would be to work with progressive sectors of Third World societies to address the breakdown of political, economic and social systems and/or institutionalized injustice that often leads to immigration. De-emphasizing boundary policing will likely reduce the deaths of unauthorized migrants (almost 600 in the California border region alone since 1994). But increased internal enforcement will create other difficulties, such as increased discrimination against those who do not look "American." It will also cause greater hardships in immigrant households, many of which contain people of different legal statuses. Should the US deport a principal breadwinner (an "illegal") from such a household, for example, leaving behind his or her US citizen children and "legal" spouse to fend for themselves? Although Andreas argues that "the state has actually structured, conditioned, and even enabled (often unintentionally) clandestine border crossings," he discusses this matter in narrow terms, focusing on how previous "solutions" to the putative problems had an exacerbating effect. Meanwhile, he neglects the role played by the government and US-based economic interests in creating the conditions that fuel immigration. Thus, no issues of moral or political responsibility enter the analysis. Grace Chang, on the other hand, puts a strong emphasis on the responsibility of the United States in fueling outmigration; it benefits from immigrant women's labor and wreaks havoc in Third World countries through the likes of military interventions and the imposition of structural adjustment programs. For Chang, the question is not one of trying to devise the best policy to control the unauthorized but of bringing about the changes needed to realize the rights of immigrants as workers and as human beings. In making this case, Chang correctly calls upon those of us who benefit from an unjust world order to stand in solidarity with immigrants--especially low-wage, Third World women who enable our privileged lifestyles--in their struggle for social justice at home and abroad. The judge who chided Bush over aid to children is part of a state tradition. The proposal would reduce sentences for nonviolent drug traffickers by about a year. March 13, 2014 March 12, 2014 Hunger strikers at Northwest Detention Center in Washington are demanding better prison conditions and an end to deportations. March 11, 2014 March 7, 2014 March 7, 2014 March 6, 2014 March 5, 2014 Produced by Alex Gibney and Robert Redford with narration by Susan Sarandon. March 5, 2014 The unlikely allies are leading a push to reform sentencing guidelines for nonviolent drug offenders. March 4, 2014	http://www.thenation.com/section/law?page=149	<urn:uuid:89c9d371-665c-45de-b067-9dafb2a36009>	en	0.952818	0.040632
Return to Transcripts main page Domestic Violence Expert, Prosecutor Butt Heads Aired April 8, 2013 - 19:00 ET RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: ... at 10 Eastern right here on HLN. And don`t worry, Alyce LaViolette`s testimony continues right now on JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL. JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, AS explosive cross-examination continues, brand-new exclusive, never-before-seen photos of victim Travis Alexander. He`s skeet shooting. He`s having fun with his buddies, courtesy of his good friend, Dave Hall. Travis Alexander, the man not here to defend himself from personal attacks by the defense. Also tonight, diary entries that reveal Jodi`s sexual obsession with Travis. You will hear them read to you tonight. We`re going to go back into court for more head butting between prosecutor Juan Martinez and the defense expert, who says Travis abused Jodi. Listen to a little of their back and forth. ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: I don`t lie about what I do, Mr. Martinez. LAVIOLETTE: You`ve mischaracterized what I just said. MARTINEZ: Is that yes or no? LAVIOLETTE: I think I just answered that question. MARTINEZ: Is that yes or no? LAVIOLETTE: Mr. Martinez, I`m just trying to give you a more effective answer. MARTINEZ: Ma`am... LAVIOLETTE: If you are trying to trick me with a year, you can`t trick me with a year. MARTINEZ: I`m not asking you what you looked at. LAVIOLETTE: If you`re asking me to be a history major, I`m not a history major. MARTINEZ: Are you done with your answer? MARTINEZ: Now answer my question. LAVIOLETTE: It`s out of context, Mr. Martinez. MARTINEZ: Ma`am... LAVIOLETTE: It`s not representing what I said. MARTINEZ: You are a -- you`re a lie detector, right? LAVIOLETTE: I think you`re mischaracterizing me. MARTINEZ: Are you done? VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. For more of this grueling cross- examination, back into court. Prosecutor Juan Martinez grilling defense battered-woman expert Alyce LaViolette. Let`s listen. LAVIOLETTE: I don`t know if I apologized to her or if I didn`t. I honestly, I don`t. My first case was `84 and I remember going in and meeting with her in jail, and I don`t know if I apologized. I can`t imagine I did. MARTINEZ: What you say is you don`t know? You don`t know, is that what you`re saying? LAVIOLETTE: I would say unlikely, because the circumstances were different. MARTINEZ: So this is a different case where you could have shown respect a different way, right? LAVIOLETTE: This case? LAVIOLETTE: This case seemed -- it seemed to me that was a really good way to show respect at the beginning. MARTINEZ: I understand that that`s what you say that you wanted to accomplish by apologizing, but there are different ways of showing respect, aren`t there? MARTINEZ: You could have sat across from her and began talking to her about what happened in a very respectful way, couldn`t you? LAVIOLETTE: I did that. MARTINEZ: Well, you could have done that, and that way, that would have shown her that you were respectful, right? MARTINEZ: And, in fact, you told us that 90 percent of all communication in a clinical setting is nonverbal, right? LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I did. I`m really sorry I said that, I guess. MARTINEZ: Yes or no? LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I did tell you that. MARTINEZ: So if you really wanted to show her the respect and show her that you were going to do this in a respectful manner, if 90 percent of the statements are nonverbal, you didn`t have to say anything at all, did you? MARTINEZ: So you felt that, with regard to apologies, those are the only exceptions to your 90 percent rule? LAVIOLETTE: No, that`s not what I said. MARTINEZ: Well, you did make the statement about the 90 percent, right? LAVIOLETTE: Ninety percent, and generally speaking, you start by talking with somebody, connecting with them before they have a context to - - to even assess your body language. MARTINEZ: Well, ma`am, you spent 44 hours on this case, right? MARTINEZ: So that was sufficient time in the beginning to assess -- for her to assess your body language and that you felt respectful, correct? LAVIOLETTE: Not the first five minutes when I met her, no, Mr. Martinez. MARTINEZ: No one forced you to open your mouth those first five minutes and say, "I am sorry," did they? LAVIOLETTE: I`m not sure that I did it within the first five minutes, but I did it relatively soon and nobody forced me. No, they did not. MARTINEZ: And the five minutes that I just used, you were the one that just told me about it, right? That`s the time that you told me, right? LAVIOLETTE: I did not -- I don`t know that it did it within the first five minutes, Mr. Martinez. I don`t know that I did that. What I do know is that I did it relatively soon, but that we had no basis for communication prior to that, so had I sat silently, that wouldn`t have worked. Did I have to make an apology? Probably, you could say no. I would say I thought it was a respectful and good thing to do. It was my decision to do it. So you can argue with that decision, but that`s my decision, and I believe it was the right decision to make. MARTINEZ: You may believe it was the right decision, but if your statement is true about the 90 percent, isn`t it also true that -- well, how long did you meet the first time with her? It wasn`t five minutes and it wasn`t 30, was it? It was more than that. LAVIOLETTE: It was eight hours, I believe. MARTINEZ: Right. And the first time you met for eight hours, you could have, through your body language -- not a set rule -- after maybe one or two hours attempted to convey this to her through this nonverbal communication that you have talked to us about, right? LAVIOLETTE: I think I probably apologized to her before two hours. MARTINEZ: I understand that. But my point is you didn`t have to apologize immediately upon walking in, right? MARTINEZ: You could have waited one or two hours to see how she dealt with you, to see whether or not she was going to trust you, right? LAVIOLETTE: I guess I`m not sure why this is such an issue. MARTINEZ: Judge, she`s being nonresponsive. Ma`am, do you understand that you`re here to answer my questions, right? MARTINEZ: So my question to you is, in terms of this apology, it`s true that it wasn`t necessary within the first five minutes or the first half hour because you spent actually eight hours with her, right? LAVIOLETTE: I felt that it was necessary. That`s why I did it. MARTINEZ: I understand that you felt that it was necessary, but you weren`t compelled to apologize, were you? WILLMOTT: Objection, asked and answered several times. STEPHENS: Sustained. MARTINEZ: And during this conversation you talked to her about what happened, right? MARTINEZ: And during this conversation, one of the other things that happened is that you had a really good feeling about her, right? LAVIOLETTE: I had a more positive feeling than I did prior to meeting with her, but I don`t know that really good -- I had a much better feeling about her after I spoke with her. MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true that you and I had a conversation back on November 14th of 2012? LAVIOLETTE: Yes, it is. MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true that you indicated to me that you looked at the materials, and you received a lot of information, and you had a good feeling about her? LAVIOLETTE: I did. I said a good feeling. I did, yes. MARTINEZ: And so this good feeling you had about her, again, this is on a personal level, feelings, isn`t it? LAVIOLETTE: It was -- yes. She answered questions that I had -- she filled in blanks that I had. MARTINEZ: Right. And so as a result of that, you developed, if you will, something inside your brain, which is the thing that creates the testimony that we have here. In there was a good feeling. You apologized because you felt bad. Now you have a good feeling after talking to her, right? LAVIOLETTE: A good feeling -- I have a better feeling to pursue the case, for sure. MARTINEZ: I`m not asking about a better feeling to pursue the case. I`m asking about a good feeling about her, because that`s what you told me, that you developed a good feeling about her. Do you remember telling me that? LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I do. Yes, I do. MARTINEZ: And so now not only have you apologized, now, in your mind, which is what you`ve told us how you arrive at your opinions in this case, something that we can`t look at, correct, we can`t go inside your brain, open it up and look at the way things develop, can we? LAVIOLETTE: No, but you mischaracterized what I said. MARTINEZ: I understand that... VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to pause very briefly. If it kind of feels like one of those heavyweight bouts where the fighters are just hanging onto each other because they`re so tired and trying to get some slams in, it is like that. We`re going to tell you why in a little bit. But first let`s debate it with our expert sidebar panel. This woman spoke to Jodi Arias for 44 hours, interviewed her, but she didn`t speak to anybody else. So the prosecutor is saying her conclusions show bias in favor of Jodi Arias that she accepted her stories at face value. Who`s winning? Let`s go to Wendy Murphy. WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Look, I think it was proved a long time ago, when it was clear she based her decision only on lies by the defendant, that she`s not an objective witness, which means she carries very little weight in the courtroom. She`s a hired gun who will lie for money. She`s not the first person who takes a pile of cash and says crazy things under oath. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Danny Cevallos for the defense. DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, experts are there to give their opinion. I don`t -- she`s not necessarily a hired gun. Every expert is technically a hired gun. She`s bound by her own rules of ethics and her own -- her own ability in the field or standing in the field to not just take money and lie. She`s not a hired gun in that sense. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman. JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I think Mr. Martinez has shown that she`s selective and subjective in what she chose to believe, and she chose to believe Jodi Arias` lies because she never got the opportunity to interview Travis Alexander, because Jodi had already killed him. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I thought it was fascinating that prosecutor Juan Martinez points out that, oh, she told a couple of stories, the same stories about several different boyfriends. But apparently, this was the first time that this particular witness found out about that, while she was on the witness stand. Juror No. 5 finally speaking out on camera. She was kicked off the jury for a mysterious misconduct. Then she came back to court last week to watch the trial as a spectator. Now she`s talking. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was it like being in court today on the other side of the aisle? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it was a different experience, definitely. But I was glad that I came back. I was able to come back and, you know, be part of it again. So I`m looking forward to giving my interview and saying my side of the story, and to really go out there and say what really happened. But I need to get home first and talk to my legal advisers and go from there. SANDRA ARIAS, JODI`S MOTHER: How can somebody -- you say she did this, come back and just be normal? S. ARIAS: And Jodi -- Jodi has mental problems. WILLIAM ARIAS, JODI`S FATHER: Tell her we want to come visit her, "Where are you going to stay?" She didn`t want us to stay in her house. She was afraid we would snoop through her stuff. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interrogation tapes of Jodi`s mother and father, revealing that they thought Jodi Arias, their daughter, was crazy. Bipolar. Let`s go back into court and hear more of this cross-examination. MARTINEZ: I understand that you believe that. So now you have this good feeling, and then you continue on with the case, right? MARTINEZ: Isn`t it clear to you, as you sit here today, that perhaps there`s an issue of bias on your part on behalf of the defendant, given your feelings and what you`ve done? LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t believe that there is. MARTINEZ: So you can set all these good feelings aside, right? LAVIOLETTE: I have good feelings... WILLMOTT: Objection, mischaracterizing what was happening in the interview with regard to good feelings. STEPHENS: Overruled. LAVIOLETTE: I think that -- that what you`re talking about is that I have positive feelings, and that would really interfere with my look at some objective material. And I`m not saying that I`m not a human being, and I`m not affected by good feelings. I`m saying that I look at lots of things, because I take this case very seriously. It`s a very serious case. MARTINEZ: But in this case there are no objective materials, are there, like a test, are there? LAVIOLETTE: I don`t think tests are objective. MARTINEZ: So you`re saying, for example, if we have a DNA test, that`s not objective? LAVIOLETTE: I`m not talking about DNA. I`m talking -- I thought you were talking psychological testing. MARTINEZ: No. We`re talking about things like that. LAVIOLETTE: No. No, I`m not saying that. I`m saying that I look at materials that are written from a variety of sources, including Mr. Alexander, and I took all of that into account. And I didn`t just take Ms. Arias`s words into account. MARTINEZ: One of the things that you told us or you told me during the interview and you told us during testimony was the defendant suffered from low self-esteem. Do you remember telling us that? MARTINEZ: Well, ma`am, one of the things that, with regard to low self-esteem, isn`t it true that when the defendant was about to be evaluated, isn`t it true that she was happy because she believed that her I.Q. was as high as Einstein`s? Do you know anything about that? MARTINEZ: And, in fact, that speaks against somebody who has low self-esteem, right? LAVIOLETTE: Not necessarily. MARTINEZ: So the fact that the defendant was happy to have her I.Q. tested, because she believed she`s on the level with Einstein, doesn`t it indicate to you this individual does not suffer from a low self-esteem issue? LAVIOLETTE: Most people who talk about how smart they are don`t feel that they`re that smart, or they`re really interested as -- by the way, I did do testing as an undergraduate. When I did my practice tests, people were very interested in their I.Q., because it`s interesting. So there could be a number of reasons why she was excited about that. I don`t know. I wasn`t there. MARTINEZ: Well, but the bottom line is, you had it in your notes, right? You read that? MARTINEZ: And you`re saying that, well, all these other people have these reasons why they want to know what their I.Q. is. You don`t know that`s why the defendant wanted to know about her I.Q., right? LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t. MARTINEZ: Because you didn`t ask her, right? LAVIOLETTE: No, I didn`t. MARTINEZ: And it could be that she has a very high self-esteem, and she believes it and this is going to be confirmation for her... WILLMOTT: Objection, speculation. STEPHENS: Overruled. MARTINEZ: ... that she is smarter than almost anyone else. LAVIOLETTE: I don`t believe her behavior demonstrates high self- esteem, Mr. Martinez. MARTINEZ: You`re talking about behavior. We`re talking with about an I.Q. test and her indication that she believes that her I.Q. may be as high as Einstein`s. LAVIOLETTE: Self-esteem is not just about I.Q., Mr. Martinez. MARTINEZ: Right. It could be about other things. For example, one of the things that we know about her is that, whenever she had an issue with people, she would correct everybody`s grammar, right? LAVIOLETTE: There were people who said that, yes. MARTINEZ: Well, this is part of what you read going into this interview with her, right, the first interview, right? MARTINEZ: And so you now know this information. You`re walking into this interview knowing that she`s corrected other people with regards to their grammar. LAVIOLETTE: Actually, I don`t know that I had read that yet. I`m not sure. I was given a limited amount of information prior to going in to see Ms. Arias, and I can`t exactly tell you which things I was given a year and a half ago prior to meeting with her. MARTINEZ: But at least you now know that that`s something that is out there and you have in your notes, correct? MARTINEZ: So now we have a situation where she believes she`s intelligent. She corrects other people`s grammar. Isn`t that an indication to you, ma`am, about somebody who has a high sense of self? LAVIOLETTE: Not at all. WILLMOTT: Objection. MARTINEZ: All right. The other thing, ma`am, do you remember when she was in jail up in Yreka and the defendant`s manifesto? You know anything about that? LAVIOLETTE: I don`t know anything about that. MARTINEZ: Do you remember that that was in your notes? LAVIOLETTE: I remember hearing about it. I`ve never seen it. MARTINEZ: You haven`t seen it. I`m not asking if you`ve seen the manifesto, but you`ve heard about it, right? LAVIOLETTE: I`ve only heard that there was a manifesto. I don`t honestly know anything about it. MARTINEZ: And I understand you may not have seen it, but isn`t it true that the defendant was signing or autographing copies of the manifesto... WILLMOTT: Objection. May we approach? STEPHENS: You may. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, this is a fascinating exchange. And you saw Jodi in the courtroom smile when there was a reference to her belief that she had a very high I.Q., rating somewhere up there with Einstein. And, of course, the argument here is that this defense expert who says she`s a battered woman, has been talking about her low self-esteem, and the prosecutor is like, "Unh-uh, she has very high self-esteem. She thinks she`s a genius. She corrects other people`s grammar. This is a slugfest." Straight out to Selin Darkalstanian. You`ve been in the court there, our senior producer, and I`ve likened it to a slugfest, because they are so exhausted. What, this is her seventh day on the stand. And apparently, she was treated, actually, like a prize fighter during one of the breaks. Tell us about it. SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: That`s right. This morning, Jane, before court started, Alyce LaViolette, the defense expert, has an entire row of supporters sitting in court. So there were two females and one male behind her rubbing her shoulders, getting her ready as if she was entering the ring ready to fight, as if this is a true boxing match. She actually has her entourage prepping her and telling her that she can do well and she can do this. And you can see they`re rubbing her shoulders in support right before she was about to take the stand. And there`s a female in the audience -- in the public gallery, I was actually watching her as Alyce LaViolette was answering Juan Martinez`s questions. And every time Alyce would -- would have the correct answer or would not let Martinez, you know, get her into a corner, she would smile, and she would nod her head. So Alyce LaViolette definitely has her supporters in court, rooting for her like this is an actual boxing match. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. This is wild. This is like a boxing match with fans, like, "Oh, yes, yes." Unbelievable stuff. Now, Jodi testified in court about Travis`s wild sex fantasies. Listen to what she wrote in her diary about those fantasies. And we`ll be back with more testimony. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve explored about 90 percent of all our fantasies. We`ve yet to pull over on the freeway and do it on the hood of the car in the middle of the day. I seriously doubt that will ever happen. We haven`t done the mile high yet and probably never will. And we`ve yet to act out the Little Red Riding Hood stint in the woods, which after last night is still scheduled to happen. LAVIOLETTE: Yes. I`m not using the Brothers Grimm version. I`m using the Walt Disney cartoon. MARTINEZ: The wicked stepmother in her circumstance is her mother, right? LAVIOLETTE: I didn`t say that. Martinez: No. I`m the one that`s asking the question. Isn`t that true? LAVIOLETTE: I don`t equate her mother with the wicked stepmother. ADRIANA CASELOTTI, VOICE ACTRESS: Anyone could see that the prince was charming. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There was a lot of bizarre testimony in court because this witness, who is testifying for the defense that Jodi Arias was a battered woman and was abused by Travis Alexander, also made a presentation at one point in her career entitled "Was Snow White a Battered Woman?" Prosecutor Juan Martinez jumping on that to try to show that, oh, you can turn Snow White into a battered woman, you can turn anybody into a battered woman, because Snow White is a fairy tale. Let`s go back into court as these two continue to slug it out, like some tired prize fighters, and let`s see who`s winning. STEPHENS: Continue. MARTINEZ: With regard to this manifesto, I understand you haven`t seen it, but in your notes, doesn`t it indicate that the defendant actually signed copies of the manifesto to distribute, in case she became famous? LAVIOLETTE: I believe those were in my notes. MARTINEZ: And, again, if that is true, doesn`t that speak against the idea that the defendant lacked self-esteem? LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t think it does at all. I think you can also have self-esteem issues in particular -- in particular areas of your life, but I don`t think because somebody writes something and thinks it`s great - - she may think she`s a good writer, and that may be part of feeling good about herself because most of us have areas that we feel good about ourselves, but it doesn`t mean we have high self-esteem in the rest of our lives. MARTINEZ: You`re also familiar with the result of the MMCI, correct, the test? LAVIOLETTE: I took notes on it, but as you`ve already mentioned, I`m not an expert in testing. MARTINEZ: Right, but you did note in it when you were talking about self-esteem, right? You took note of what the results were on self-esteem? MARTINEZ: And you actually thought it was important enough to write them in your notes, right? LAVIOLETTE: I took notes on everything that was in the test but, as you said, I`m not an expert on testing so being able to interpret that is another thing, but I did take notes on it, sure. MARTINEZ: I`m not asking you to interpret it. I`m asking whether or not your notes reflect that the defendant has no self-esteem problems. LAVIOLETTE: That -- that was at that time, which was years after she left the relationship -- you know, one of the things about the testing, if you want to bring up testing, it was done after Ms. Arias was in jail for a significant period of time. MARTINEZ: I understand but there`s a test that says she has no self- esteem problems, right? WILLMOTT: Objection. STEPHENS: Overruled. MARTINEZ: Right? There`s a test that says that, right? LAVIOLETTE: If I wrote that in my notes, then that`s what I wrote in my notes. MARTINEZ: Did you want to look at your notes? VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right. Now this defense expert, battered woman`s expert, Alyce LaViolette, looking at her notes. He is trying to attack her credibility, the fact that she accepted Jodi`s stories at face value, even though some of her stories had a familiar ring because she had told the same stories about previous boyfriends, which is fascinating, because obviously it`s suspicious. During the interrogation by police of Jodi`s parents, Jodi`s mom and dad expressed a big worry that she was mentally ill, saying she`s got severe mood swings, that she could be bipolar. Listen to this. S. ARIAS: She would call me in the morning all happy and call me an hour or two later in tears, crying and sobbing about something she department want to talk about. I had one friend call me in the middle of the night, and he had even called a hotline for bipolar people. He said -- said Jodi is bipolar, and she needs help. W. ARIAS: I told her one time when she`s -- she called me and started yelling. I said, "Have you ever thought of yourself as being bipolar?" UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am mortified that my phone was stolen. It had a hugely scandalous text message from him -- 10 pages that he sent last week. It would make a steamy romance novel sound like a script from a G- rated Disney movie. I also had one or two reported conversations that were equally as scandalous. I never did figure out how to play those back for him. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Speaking of shocking, we`re learning now in court that this defendant actually signed her manifesto, which I`m presuming, they can correct me if I`m wrong, the prosecutor is referring to those diary entries, those journal entries in case she became famous which raises all sorts of questions that we`re going to debate in a moment. But, first, let`s go back into court where prosecutor Juan Martinez is grilling defense expert Alyce LaViolette over her methods for concluding that Jodi Arias is a victim of domestic violence. ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DEFENSE WITNESS: Yes, you`re looking -- I`m sorry? MARTINEZ: If I may have that please. MARTINEZ: This is a page which is a copy of your notes, correct? MARTINEZ: And this is in your handwriting, correct? MARTINEZ: And one of the things that it talks about is the MCMI, correct? MARTINEZ: You looked at it, right? LAVIOLETTE: The MCMI was at the report. Sure, yes. MARTINEZ: And it was important enough for you to look at that report so that you could include it as part of your assessment, right? MARTINEZ: And in it you looked at the social functioning scales, right? MARTINEZ: And you found in your own handwriting that they were within -- JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Objection. It`s a testimony with regard with what`s in her notes about something that`s not in evidence. MARTINEZ: That it was in the normal range, right? LAVIOLETTE: Her social functioning -- that`s not the same as self- esteem. MARTINEZ: Well, it does talk about self-image, doesn`t it? LAVIOLETTE: It says it`s within the normal range. MARTINEZ: Right. And her self-image is within the normal range, correct? MARTINEZ: And you`re saying now that somebody`s self-image doesn`t have anything to do with self-esteem? WILLMOTT: Judge -- objection. May we approach? VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We have another sidebar. Meanwhile, we have breaking news just in. We understand two new motions have been filed, one requesting a mistrial, and the other asking to preclude some evidence. We`re going to hear about what exactly all that means in just a second but, first, let`s debate the stunner we just heard in court. All right. Wendy Murphy, I`ve always suspected that this woman who thinks she is as smart as Einstein may have on some level understood that she would ultimately be arrested and was hoping on some level, on some deep level, to get the kind of negative attention or fame that she could not achieve as a positive member of society but now we just got confirmation of it. Prosecutor Juan Martinez saying she signed her manifesto in the event that she became famous. Let`s debate it. WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, the one thing I`ll say about this stuff about her opinion of herself is not only is it very clear that she had, you know, very serious ideas about herself as somebody special, this is evidence of grandiosity and narcissism which, by the way, is correlated with psychopathy and sociopathy meaning she`s the type who can kill because she`s so self-centered she doesn`t have that compassion, that feeling for others. I think this is going to destroy Alyce LaViolette because again we`re hearing over and over again that the stuff that undermines Alyce`s testimony, Alyce keeps saying, "Oh, I didn`t see that I didn`t see that and I didn`t see that." She intentionally didn`t see all that stuff. She is being destroyed on the stand. It is painful. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Danny Cevallos for the defense, is she being destroyed? Is she being forced to admit she took a pathological liar`s word at face value? DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let`s ask that question. That`s a good question. What have we been hearing Juan Martinez focus on? We`ve heard him focus on minutiae in her curriculum vitae, whether or not she was a keynote speaker or a keynote breakout speaker. He is trying to kill her with the death of a thousand bee stings -- one bee sting won`t do it, a thousand might do it. But when he`s doing so, is he really affecting the jury by questioning whether or not she was a keynote speaker on her CV? I mean at this point this jury has been through so much, don`t you think there`s a possibility that Juan Martinez`s demeanor may be aggravating more than it is effective? It`s a possibility. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman, he has to keep his rage and his anger for important points not whether or not she said she was the keynote speaker or the keynote something or other speaker. LEIBERRMAN: Yes, but I have to disagree with Danny. I mean Mr. Martinez is building, building, building; he is showing that from the minutia to the big things this witness is not credible. And when you see - - look at what he`s dealing with -- when you see Jodi Arias smile in court, she is on trial for murder. She should not be smiling in court. CEVALLOS: This has been months. VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to take a very brief break and we`re going to come back with more testimony on the other side. It`s heating up. Stay right there. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here are your shoes. Why don`t you go ahead and put those on. Go ahead. Stop right there and just turn around. Put your hands behind your back. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to go back to court in a second. But first, we have breaking news and apparently it concerns the attitudes of prosecutor Juan Martinez. Is there a motion about how rough he is being with some of these witnesses? Stay right there. More testimony in a moment. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no doubt in my mind that you did this -- none. So you can go until you`re blue in the face and tell me you weren`t there and you had nothing to do with it. I don`t believe you. I want to know why. It`s killing me inside that I don`t know why. JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: There`s no reason for it. There`s no reason why. There`s no reason I would ever want to hurt him. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way anybody else. ARIAS: He never raped me. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutor Juan Martinez showing temper in court because he is dealing with a pathological liar who now admits she killed a man by slitting his throat, stabbing him 29 times and shooting him in the face, and he`s cross-examining this woman who is an expert for the defense who says, oh, she`s a battered woman. So that she can argue that all of that violence was justified. But now there`s new controversy over prosecutor Juan Martinez`s tone. Let`s go back into the courtroom and hear more of that tone and then we`ll bring that you breaking news -- back into court. STEPHENS: You may continue. MARTINEZ: You have now told us that this was self-image was within the normal range, correct? MARTINEZ: We now have an individual who has a test that says her self-image is within the normal range, correct? LAVIOLETTE: Given two years after the incident. MARTINEZ: I understand that. But that`s what it says, right? LAVIOLETTE: Within the normal range at the time it was given, correct. MARTINEZ: You`ve said that before. We assume that. We also have an individual who`s very happy about being tested because she believes that she`s as smart as Einstein, right? WILLMOTT: Objection. (inaudible) STEPHENS: Sustained. MARTINEZ: That her IQ is as high as Einstein`s? WILLMOTT: Same objection. STEPHENS: Overruled. LAVIOLETTE: Yes, she says that. MARTINEZ: And she is signing manifestos because she believes she`s going to be famous. LAVIOLETTE: I don`t know if she believes she`s going to be famous, but she`s signing manifestos. MARTINEZ: Do you want to look at your notes where you indicate that? LAVIOLETTE: If I said that in my notes then it`s -- MARTINEZ: No, I`m asking you if you want to look at your notes so that you can make sure that you`re accurate. You want to look at this? MARTINEZ: All right. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now this is new photo of -- a number of new photos that have just come in from Dave Hall, a good buddy of Travis Alexander. And there he is skeet shooting with his buddy and having a good time. And we`ve obtained these new photos. This is a man, again, who is being called an abuser by this witness who`s on the stand and the prosecutors pointed out, you didn`t talk to Travis Alexander because he was dead, but you didn`t talk to anybody except Jodi Arias, the person who killed him, the person who lied two different times with two different stories. A short break and then back with more testimony on the other side. Stay right there. MARTINEZ: Doesn`t it seem a little strange to you that in 50 percent of her relationship she is working at a restaurant when somebody, either one or two people come up to her and tell her about her boyfriend cheating? Doesn`t that raise a red flag for you? LAVIOLETTE: I really would want to get clarification. MARTINEZ: You don`t know that that is true, do you? LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t. I would check the story out. MARTINEZ: But you didn`t in this case did you, before you came in and gave us your opinion. LAVIOLETTE: I didn`t know about the (inaudible) MARTINEZ: Right and that means that your assessment is incomplete. VELEZ-MITCHELL: This prosecutor pointing out that this woman he says anyway is gullible, taking her stories at face value. Even though they have a familiar ring, it turns out there were two occasions where Jodi Arias claimed that a mysterious woman walked in to where she was waiting tables and said a boyfriend is cheating on you. She didn`t just do it with Travis she did it with a previous boyfriend. So the stories are being repeated. The prosecutor said that`s because she is lying. Let`s go straight out to Beth Karas. Beth, I understand that there are new motions and one of them has to do with the prosecutor`s tone. BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, it`s -- the motion for prosecutorial misconduct is based upon basically the conduct in this trial that Juan Martinez has thrown evidence, dropped evidence, thrown pencils, badgered witnesses. They don`t say he`s withheld evidence from them but they say he has absolutely prevented them from being able to effectively assist in defending Jodi Arias and that this case has to be retried. I don`t know what -- you know, they had just filed this. I don`t know what the judge is going to do with it. They are also trying to preclude some of his rebuttal evidence which we expect we`ll hear in the next week or two. They are saying that evidence about the shelving in the closet that Travis Alexander had, they don`t know that it is the same shelving. They don`t know that the items on the shelf now are the same as when Travis Alexander died that day and that putting the weight on the edge of the shelf which would cause it to flip up, that Jodi Arias never put a step on the shelf the way she says. That they were held by tins. There is no evidence that these are the same shelves and if the weight is the same and they are constructed the same. So they want to preclude that evidence altogether. So these are pending motions. We`ll see what the judge does with them. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, it tells me, first of all, this is going to be a significant rebuttal case because we thought that primarily the rebuttal case was the prosecution expert and then testimony about the gas can that he says is key to premeditation. Now we`re hearing also that the shelving -- oh my gosh. But very quickly, Wendy Murphy, very briefly, we want to get back into court, can you attack a prosecutor for throwing a pencil or for raising his voice and saying we have to throw out the whole case? MURPHY: This motion is making my blood boil. Think about this. Martinez is angry like the whole country is angry because all these people are lying under oath in the court of law. He is doing his best to keep cool and there is a motion to sanction him for being angry about that. Are you kidding me? How about a motion to sanction people for lying? How about that one? VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I`m sure a lot of the viewers share your anger. Everybody`s angry. I`m going to try not to be angry. I have also been criticized for my tone at times so I can relate to prosecutor Martinez right now. We are going to take a short break. Back with more testimony in just a moment. MARTINEZ: You`re willing to come into court like you did last Thursday in the morning and part of the afternoon and give an opinion about a relationship involving people such as Mr. Alexander and Chaitanya Lay without talking to Chaitanya Lay and without talking to Travis Alexander, correct? LAVIOLETTE: I`ve looked at far more than that, Mr. Martinez. VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now a new defense motion saying essentially prosecutor Martinez is playing too rough, his tone is wrong. He is argumentative, he`s throwing pencils and there should be a mistrial based on that. Of course Wendy Murphy says her blood is boiling right now because that is so ridiculous. So Danny Cevallos, you speak for the defense, what do you think of this I would say motion de jure for a mistrial? CEVALLOS: With all due respect to my fellow panel members, phooey on all of you. Because I was saying this five or ten minutes ago and nobody bought it that the prosecutor`s demeanor is getting a little too out of control. I understand his passion. I get it. But there is a difference, Attorney Murphy, between passion and emotion and frustration and courtroom decorum. That can prejudice the case when the prosecutor goes too far. There is such a thing as prosecutorial misconduct. It does exist. And it is -- MURPHY: There is also such a thing as perjury. There`s also this thing called perjury. CEVALLOS: It`s a ground for mistrial. LEIBERMAN: Oh please. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Leiberman. LEIBERMAN: Mr. Martinez is standing for Travis Alexander and he is standing for the people of Arizona. I think he is doing a phenomenal job. And I think in rebuttal and in closing you`re going to see this all come together. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one thing we don`t know is whether he is doing a phenomenal job or not. I mean here is the bottom line. We don`t know. The phenomenal job will be whoever wins the verdict. Ok? During the Casey Anthony case everybody was high fiving the prosecutor. There were cheers as he walked in and they lost. LEIBERMAN: This is such a different case. MURPHY: Not me. Not me. LEIBERMAN: No, I wasn`t either. MURPHY: I don`t think it will be acquittal. VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that we can`t tell whether it is effective or not. That is the whole point. You might think it is, somebody else thinks it`s not. Somebody thinks it`s just right. Somebody thinks it`s too much. Whatever works? If it turns out that he gets a conviction then it will have been a good move. Nancy Grace up next with more testimony.	http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1304/08/ijvm.01.html	<urn:uuid:b4d2cf1a-aeaf-493c-b686-f088af4d21aa>	en	0.967704	0.027406
Rings of Neptune From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Adams ring) Jump to: navigation, search The scheme of Neptune's ring-moon system. Solid lines denote rings; dashed lines denote orbits of moons. The rings of Neptune consist primarily of five principal rings and were first discovered (as "arcs") in 1984 in Chile by Patrice Bouchet, Reinhold Häfner and Jean Manfroid at La Silla Observatory (ESO) during an observing program proposed by André Brahic and Bruno Sicardy from Paris-Meudon Observatory, and at Cerro Tololo Interamerican Observatory by F. Vilas and L.-R. Elicer for a program led by Williams Hubbard.[1][2] They were eventually imaged in 1989 by the Voyager 2 spacecraft.[3] At their densest, they are comparable to the less dense portions of Saturn's main rings such as the C ring and the Cassini Division, but much of Neptune's ring system is quite tenuous, faint and dusty, more closely resembling the rings of Jupiter. Neptune's rings are named after astronomers who contributed important work on the planet:[3] Galle, Le Verrier, Lassell, Arago, and Adams.[4][5] Neptune also has a faint unnamed ring coincident with the orbit of the moon Galatea. Three other moons orbit between the rings: Naiad, Thalassa and Despina.[5] The rings of Neptune are made of extremely dark material, likely organic compounds processed by radiation, similar to that found in the rings of Uranus.[6] The proportion of dust in the rings (between 20% and 70%) is high,[6] while their optical depth is low to moderate, at less than 0.1.[7] Uniquely, the Adams ring includes five distinct arcs, named Fraternité, Égalité 1 and 2, Liberté, and Courage. The arcs occupy a narrow range of orbital longitudes and are remarkably stable, having changed only slightly since their initial detection in 1980.[6] How the arcs are stabilized is still under debate. However, their stability is probably related to the resonant interaction between the Adams ring and its inner shepherd moon, Galatea.[8] Discovery and observations[edit] A pair of Voyager 2 images of Neptune's ring system The first mention of rings around Neptune dates back to 1846 when William Lassell, the discoverer of Neptune's largest moon Triton, thought he had seen a ring around the planet.[3] However, his claim was never confirmed and it is likely that it was an observational artifact. The first reliable detection of a ring was made in 1968 by stellar occultation, although that result would go unnoticed until 1977 when the rings of Uranus were discovered.[3] Soon after the Uranus discovery, a team from Villanova University led by Harold J. Reitsema began searching for rings around Neptune. On 24 May 1981, they detected a dip in a star's brightness during one occultation; however, the manner in which the star dimmed did not suggest a ring. Later, after the Voyager fly-by, it was found that the occultation was due to the small Neptunian moon Larissa, a highly unusual event.[3] In the 1980s, significant occultations were much rarer for Neptune than for Uranus, which lay near the Milky Way at the time and was thus moving against a denser field of stars. Neptune's next occultation, on 12 September 1983, resulted in a possible detection of a ring.[3] However, ground-based results were inconclusive. Over the next six years, approximately 50 other occultations were observed with only about one-third of them yielding positive results.[9] Something (probably incomplete arcs) definitely existed around Neptune, but the features of the ring system remained a mystery.[3] The Voyager 2 spacecraft made the definitive discovery of the Neptunian rings during its fly-by of Neptune in 1989, passing by as close as 4,950 km (3,080 mi) above the planet's atmosphere on 25 August. It confirmed that occasional occultation events observed before were indeed caused by the arcs within the Adams ring (see below).[10] After the Voyager fly-by the previous terrestrial occultation observations were reanalyzed yielding features of the ring's arcs as they were in 1980s, which matched those found by Voyager almost perfectly.[6] Since Voyager's fly-by, the brightest rings (Adams and Le Verrier) have been imaged with the Hubble Space Telescope and Earth-based telescopes, owing to advances in resolution and light-gathering power.[11] They are visible, slightly above background noise levels, at methane-absorbing wavelengths in which the glare from Neptune is significantly reduced. The fainter rings are still far below the visibility threshold.[12] General properties[edit] A Voyager ring image shown at increased brightness to bring out fainter features Neptune possesses five distinct rings[6] named, in order of increasing distance from the planet, Galle, Le Verrier, Lassell, Arago and Adams.[5] In addition to these well-defined rings, Neptune may also possess an extremely faint sheet of material stretching inward from the Le Verrier to the Galle ring, and possibly farther in toward the planet.[6][8] Three of the Neptunian rings are narrow, with widths of about 100 km or less;[7] in contrast, the Galle and Lassell rings are broad—their widths are between 2,000 and 5,000 km.[6] The Adams ring consists of five bright arcs embedded in a fainter continuous ring.[6] Proceeding counterclockwise, the arcs are: Fraternité, Égalité 1 and 2, Liberté, and Courage.[8][13] The first three names come from "liberty, equality, fraternity", the motto of the French Revolution and Republic. The terminology was suggested by their original discoverers, who had found them during stellar occultations in 1984 and 1985.[9] Four small Neptunian moons have orbits inside the ring system: Naiad and Thalassa orbit in the gap between the Galle and Le Verrier rings; Despina is just inward of the Le Verrier ring; and Galatea lies slightly inward of the Adams ring,[5] embedded in an unnamed faint, narrow ringlet.[8] The Neptunian rings contain a large quantity of micrometer-sized dust: the dust fraction by cross-section area is between 20% and 70%.[8] In this respect they are similar to the rings of Jupiter, in which the dust fraction is 50%–100%, and are very different from the rings of Saturn and Uranus, which contain little dust (less than 0.1%).[5][8] The particles in Neptune's rings are made from a dark material; probably a mixture of ice with radiation-processed organics.[5][6] The rings are reddish in color, and their geometrical (0.05) and Bond (0.01–0.02) albedos are similar to those of the Uranian rings' particles and the inner Neptunian moons.[6] The rings are generally optically thin (transparent); their normal optical depths do not exceed 0.1.[6] As a whole, the Neptunian rings resemble those of Jupiter; both systems consist of faint, narrow, dusty ringlets and even fainter broad dusty rings.[8] The rings of Neptune, like those of Uranus, are thought to be relatively young; their age is probably significantly less than that of the Solar System.[6] Also, like those of Uranus, Neptune's rings probably resulted from the collisional fragmentation of onetime inner moons.[8] Such events create moonlet belts, which act as the sources of dust for the rings. In this respect the rings of Neptune are similar to faint dusty bands observed by Voyager 2 between the main rings of Uranus.[6] Inner rings[edit] The innermost ring of Neptune is called the Galle ring after Johann Gottfried Galle, the first person to see Neptune through a telescope (1846).[14] It is about 2,000 km wide and orbits 41,000–43,000 km from the planet.[5] It is a faint ring with an average normal optical depth of around 10−4,[a] and with an equivalent depth of 0.15 km.[b][6] The fraction of dust in this ring is estimated from 40% to 70%.[6][17] The next ring is named the Le Verrier ring after Urbain Le Verrier, who predicted Neptune's position in 1846.[18] With an orbital radius of about 53,200 km,[5] it is narrow, with a width of about 113 km.[7] Its normal optical depth is 0.0062 ± 0.0015, which corresponds to an equivalent depth of 0.7 ± 0.2 km.[7] The dust fraction in the Le Verrier ring ranges from 40% to 70%.[8][17] The small moon Despina, which orbits just inside of it at 52,526 km, may play a role in the ring's confinement by acting as a shepherd.[5] The Lassell ring, also known as the plateau, is the broadest ring in the Neptunian system.[8] It is the namesake of William Lassell, the English astronomer who discovered Neptune's largest moon, Triton.[19] This ring is a faint sheet of material occupying the space between the Le Verrier ring at about 53,200 km and the Arago ring at 57,200 km.[5] Its average normal optical depth is around 10−4, which corresponds to an equivalent depth of 0.4 km.[6] The ring's dust fraction is in the range from 20% to 40%.[17] There is a small peak of brightness near the outer edge of the Lassell ring, located at 57,200 km from Neptune and less than 100 km wide,[5] which some planetary scientists call the Arago ring after François Arago, a French mathematician, physicist, astronomer and politician.[20] However, many publications do not mention the Arago ring at all.[8] Adams ring[edit] The outer Adams ring, with an orbital radius of about 63,930 km,[5] is the best studied of Neptune's rings.[5] It is named after John Couch Adams, who predicted the position of Neptune independently of Le Verrier.[21] This ring is narrow, slightly eccentric and inclined, with total width of about 35 km (15–50 km),[7] and its normal optical depth is around 0.011 ± 0.003 outside the arcs, which corresponds to the equivalent depth of about 0.4 km.[7] The fraction of dust in this ring is from 20% to 40%—lower than in other narrow rings.[17] Neptune's small moon Galatea, which orbits just inside of the Adams ring at 61,953 km, acts like a shepherd, keeping ring particles inside a narrow range of orbital radii through a 42:43 outer Lindblad resonance.[13] Galatea's gravitational influence creates 42 radial wiggles in the Adams ring with an amplitude of about 30 km, which have been used to infer Galatea's mass.[13] The brightest parts of the Adams ring, the ring arcs, were the first elements of Neptune's ring system to be discovered.[3] The arcs are discrete regions within the ring in which the particles that comprise it are mysteriously clustered together. The Adams ring is known to comprise five short arcs, which occupy a relatively narrow range of longitudes from 247° to 294°.[c] In 1986 they were located between longitudes of: • 247–257° (Fraternité), • 261–264° (Égalité 1), • 265–266° (Égalité 2), • 276–280° (Liberté), • 284.5–285.5° (Courage).[5][13] The brightest and longest arc was Fraternité; the faintest was Courage. The normal optical depths of the arcs are estimated to lie in the range 0.03–0.09[6] (0.034 ± 0.005 for the leading edge of Liberté arc as measured by stellar occultation);[7] the radial widths are approximately the same as those of the continuous ring—about 30 km.[6] The equivalent depths of arcs vary in the range 1.25–2.15 km (0.77 ± 0.13 km for the leading edge of Liberté arc).[7] The fraction of dust in the arcs is from 40% to 70%.[17] The arcs in the Adams ring are somewhat similar to the arc in Saturn's G ring.[22] The highest resolution Voyager 2 images revealed a pronounced clumpiness in the arcs, with a typical separation between visible clumps of 0.1° to 0.2°, which corresponds to 100–200 km along the ring. Because the clumps were not resolved, they may or may not include larger bodies, but are certainly associated with concentrations of microscopic dust as evidenced by their enhanced brightness when backlit by the Sun.[6] The arcs are quite stable structures. They were detected by ground based stellar occultations in the 1980s, by Voyager 2 in 1989 and by Hubble Space Telescope and ground based telescopes in 1997–2005 and remained at approximately the same orbital longitudes.[6][12] However some changes have been noticed. The overall brightness of arcs decreased since 1986.[12] The Courage arc jumped forward by 8° to 294° (it probably jumped over to the next stable co-rotation resonance position) while the Liberté arc had almost disappeared by 2003.[23] The Fraternité and Égalité (1 and 2) arcs have demonstrated irregular variations in their relative brightness. Their observed dynamics is probably related to the exchange of dust between them.[12] Courage, a very faint arc found during the Voyager flyby, was seen to flare in brightness in 1998, while more recently it was back to its usual dimness. Visible light observations show that the total amount of material in the arcs has remained approximately constant, but they are dimmer in the infrared light wavelengths where previous observations were taken.[23] The arcs in the Adams ring remain unexplained.[5] Their existence is a puzzle because basic orbital dynamics imply that they should spread out into a uniform ring over a matter of years. Several theories about the arcs' confinement have been suggested, the most widely publicized of which holds that Galatea confines the arcs via its 42:43 co-rotational inclination resonance (CIR).[d][13] The resonance creates 84 stable sites along the ring's orbit, each 4° long, with arcs residing in the adjacent sites.[13] However measurements of the rings' mean motion with Hubble and Keck telescopes in 1998 led to the conclusion that the rings are not in CIR with Galatea.[11][24] A later model suggested that confinement resulted from a co-rotational eccentricity resonance (CER).[e][25] The model takes into account the finite mass of the Adams ring, which is necessary to move the resonance closer to the ring. A byproduct of this theory is a mass estimate for the Adams ring—about 0.002 of the mass of Galatea.[25] A third theory proposed in 1986 requires an additional moon orbiting inside the ring; the arcs in this case are trapped in its stable Lagrangian points. However Voyager 2's observations placed strict constraints on the size and mass of any undiscovered moons, making such a theory unlikely.[6] Some other more complicated theories hold that a number of moonlets are trapped in co-rotational resonances with Galatea, providing confinement of the arcs and simultaneously serving as sources of the dust.[26] The rings were investigated in detail during the Voyager 2 spacecraft's flyby of Neptune in August 1989.[6] They were studied with optical imaging, and through observations of occultations in ultraviolet and visible light.[7] Voyager 2 observed the rings in different geometries relative to the Sun, producing images of back-scattered, forward-scattered and side-scattered light.[f][6] Analysis of these images allowed derivation of the phase function (dependence of the ring's reflectivity on the angle between the observer and Sun), and geometrical and Bond albedo of ring particles.[6] Analysis of Voyager's images also led to discovery of six inner moons of Neptune, including the Adams ring shepherd Galatea.[6] Ring name Radius (km)[5] Width (km) Eq. depth (km)[b][g] N. Opt. depth[a] Dust fraction,%[17] Ecc. Incl.(°) Notes Galle (N42) 40,900–42,900 2,000 0.15[6] ~ 10−4[6] 40–70 ? ? Broad faint ring Le Verrier (N53) 53,200 ± 20 113[7] 0.7 ± 0.2[7] 6.2 ± 1.5 × 10–3[7] 40–70 ? ? Narrow ring Lassell 53,200–57,200 4,000 0.4[6] ~ 10−4[6] 20–40 ? ? Lassell ring is a faint sheet of material stretching from Le Verrier to Arago Arago 57,200 <100[6] ? ? ? ? ? Adams (N63) 62,932 ± 2 15–50[7] 0.4[6] 1.25–2.15[7] (in arcs) 0.011 ± 0.003[7] 0.03–0.09[6] (in arcs) 40–70 (in arcs) 4.7 ± 0.2 × 10–4[13] 0.0617 ± 0.0043[13] Five bright arcs *A question mark means that the parameter is not known. 1. ^ a b The normal optical depth τ of a ring is the ratio of the total geometrical cross-section of the ring's particles to the area of the ring. It assumes values from zero to infinity. A light beam passing normally through a ring will be attenuated by the factor e–τ.[15] 2. ^ a b The equivalent depth ED of a ring is defined as an integral of the normal optical depth across the ring. In other words ED = ∫τdr, where r is radius.[16] 3. ^ The longitude system is fixed as of 18 August 1989. The zero point corresponds to the zero meridian on Neptune.[5] 4. ^ The corotation inclination resonance (CIR) of the order m between a moon on inclined orbit and a ring occurs if the pattern speed of the perturbing potential \Omega (from a moon) equals the mean motion of the ring particles n_p. In other words the following condition should be met m\Omega=n_pm=(m-1)n_s+\dot\Omega_s, where \dot\Omega_s and n_s are the nodal precession rate and mean motion of the moon, respectively.[13] CIR supports 2m stable sites along the ring. 5. ^ The corotation eccentricity resonance (CER) of the order m between a moon on eccentric orbit and a ring occurs if the pattern speed of the perturbing potential \Omega (from a moon) equals the mean motion of the ring particles n_p. In other words the following condition should be met m\Omega=n_pm=(m-1)n_s+\dot\omega_s, where \dot\omega_s and n_s are the apsidal precession rate and mean motion of the moon, respectively.[25] CER supports m stable sites along the ring. 6. ^ Forward-scattered light is light scattered at a small angle relative to solar light. Back-scattered light is light scattered at an angle close to 180° (backwards) relative to solar light. The scattering angle is close to 90° for side-scattered light. 7. ^ The equivalent depth of Galle and Lassell rings is a product of their width and the normal optical depth. 1. ^ Hubbard, W.B.; Brahic, A.; Bouchet, P.; Elicer, L.-R.; Haefner, R.; Manfroid, J.; Roques, F.; Sicardy, B.; Vilas, F. (1985). "Occultation Detection of a Neptune Ring Segment". Press Abstracts from the Sixteenth Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, held March 11–15, 1985, in Houston, TX. LPI Contribution 559, published by the Lunar and Planetary Institute, 3303 Nasa Road 1, Houston, TX 77058, 1985, p.35. Bibcode:1985LPICo.559...35H. 2. ^ Manfroid, J.; Haefner, R.; Bouchet, P. (1986). "New evidence for a ring around Neptune". Astronomy and Astrophysics 157 (1): L3. Bibcode:1986A&A...157L...3M. 3. ^ a b c d e f g h Miner, Ellis D., Wessen, Randii R., Cuzzi, Jeffrey N. (2007). "The discovery of the Neptune ring system". Planetary Ring Systems. Springer Praxis Books. ISBN 978-0-387-34177-4. 4. ^ Listed in increasing distance from the planet 5. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q Miner, Ellis D., Wessen, Randii R., Cuzzi, Jeffrey N. (2007). "Present knowledge of the Neptune ring system". Planetary Ring System. Springer Praxis Books. ISBN 978-0-387-34177-4. 6. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z aa ab ac ad ae af Smith, B. A.; Soderblom, L. A.; Banfield, D.; Barnet, C.; Basilevsky, A. T.; Beebe, R. F.; Bollinger, K.; Boyce, J. M.; Brahic, A. (1989). "Voyager 2 at Neptune: Imaging Science Results". Science 246 (4936): 1422–1449. Bibcode:1989Sci...246.1422S. doi:10.1126/science.246.4936.1422. PMID 17755997. edit 7. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o Horn, Linda J.; Hui, John; Lane, Arthur L. (1990). "Observations of Neptunian rings by Voyager photopolarimeter experiment". Geophysics Research Letters 17 (10): 1745–1748. Bibcode:1990GeoRL..17.1745H. doi:10.1029/GL017i010p01745. 8. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k Burns, J.A.; Hamilton, D.P.; Showalter, M.R. (2001). "Dusty Rings and Circumplanetary Dust: Observations and Simple Physics" (pdf). In Grun, E.; Gustafson, B. A. S.; Dermott, S. T.; Fechtig H. Interplanetary Dust. Berlin: Springer. pp. 641–725. 9. ^ a b Sicardy, B.; Roques, F.; Brahic, A. (1991). "Neptune's Rings, 1983–1989 Ground-Based Stellar Occultation Observations". Icarus 89 (2): 220. Bibcode:1991Icar...89..220S. doi:10.1016/0019-1035(91)90175-S. 10. ^ Nicholson, P.D.; Cooke, Maren L. et al. (1990). "Five Stellar Occultations by Neptune: Further Observations of Ring Arcs". Icarus 87 (1): 1. Bibcode:1990Icar...87....1N. doi:10.1016/0019-1035(90)90020-A. 11. ^ a b Dumas, Cristophe; Terrile, Richard J. et al. (1999). "Stability of Neptune's ring arcs in question" (pdf). Nature 400 (6746): 733–735. Bibcode:1999Natur.400..733D. doi:10.1038/23414. 12. ^ a b c d dePater, Imke; Gibbard, Seren et al. (2005). "The Dynamic Neptunian Ring Arcs: Evidence for a Gradual Disappearance of Liberté and Resonant Jump of Courage" (pdf). Icarus 174 (1): 263–272. Bibcode:2005Icar..174..263D. doi:10.1016/j.icarus.2004.10.020. 13. ^ a b c d e f g h i Porco, C.C. (1991). "An Explanation for Neptune's Ring Arcs". Science 253 (5023): 995–1001. Bibcode:1991Sci...253..995P. doi:10.1126/science.253.5023.995. PMID 17775342. 14. ^ Editorial (1910). "Obituaries: G. V. Schiaparelli, J. G. Galle, J. B. N. Hennessey J. Coles, J. E. Gore". The Observatory 33: 311–318. Bibcode:1910Obs....33..311. 15. ^ Ockert, M.E.; Cuzzin, J.N.; Porco, C.C.; and Johnson, T.V. (1987). "Uranian ring photometry: Results from Voyager 2". Journal of Geophysical Research 92 (A13): 14,969–78. Bibcode:1987JGR....9214969O. doi:10.1029/JA092iA13p14969. 16. ^ Holberg, J.B.; Nicholson, P. D.; French, R.G.; Elliot, J.L. (1987). "Stellar occultation probes of the Uranian rings at 0.1 and 2.2 μm – A comparison of Voyager UVS and earth-based results". The Astronomical Journal 94: 178–188. Bibcode:1987AJ.....94..178H. doi:10.1086/114462. 17. ^ a b c d e f Colwell, Joshua E.; Esposito, Larry W. (1990). "A model of dust production in the Neptunian ring system". Geophysics Research Letters 17 (10): 1741–1744. Bibcode:1990GeoRL..17.1741C. doi:10.1029/GL017i010p01741. 18. ^ Adams, John (1877). "Prof. Adams on Leverrier's Planetary Theories". Nature 16 (413): 462–464. Bibcode:1877Natur..16..462.. doi:10.1038/016462a0. 19. ^ <Please add first missing authors to populate metadata.> (1881). "Fellows deceased, list of Lassell, W". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 41: 188–191. Bibcode:1881MNRAS..41..188. 20. ^ Hansen, P. A. (1854). "Extract of a Letter respecting the Lunar Tables (Obituary of M. Arago)". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 14: 102–107. Bibcode:1853MNRAS..14....1H. 21. ^ <Please add first missing authors to populate metadata.> (1893). "OBITUARY: List of Fellows and Associates deceased during the year: John Couch Adams". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 53: 184–209. Bibcode:1893MNRAS..53..184. 22. ^ Hedman, M. M., Burns, J. A., Tiscareno et al. (2007). "The Source of Saturn's G Ring" (pdf). Science 317 (5838): 653–656. Bibcode:2007Sci...317..653H. doi:10.1126/science.1143964. PMID 17673659. 23. ^ a b Showalter, M.R.; Burns; De Pater; Hamilton; Lissauer; Verbanac; et al. (2005). "Updates on the dusty rings of Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune". Dust in Planetary Systems, Proceedings of the conference held September 26–28, 2005 in Kaua'i, Hawaii 1280: 130. Bibcode:2005LPICo1280..130S. 24. ^ Sicardy, B.; Roddier, F. et al. (1999). "Images of Neptune's ring arcs obtained by a ground-based telescope". Nature 400 (6746): 731–733. Bibcode:1999Natur.400..731S. doi:10.1038/23410. 25. ^ a b c Namouni, Fathi; Porco, Carolyn (2002). "The confinement of Neptune's ring arcs by the moon Galatea". Nature 417 (6884): 45–47. Bibcode:2002Natur.417...45N. doi:10.1038/417045a. PMID 11986660. 26. ^ Salo, Heikki; Hanninen, Jyrki (1998). "Neptune's Partial Rings: Action of Galatea on Self-Gravitating Arc Particles". Science 282 (5391): 1102–1104. Bibcode:1998Sci...282.1102S. doi:10.1126/science.282.5391.1102. PMID 9804544. External links[edit]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams_ring	<urn:uuid:c3638fae-b4b4-4cd8-b103-74adacf8ebe6>	en	0.85893	0.053387
How do you like the concept for Horizon? I love it, there is only a little I would change! 28 42.42% I like it, but it may need some touching up. 26 39.39% I don't like it, it needs a lot of work. 7 10.61% I hate it, it shouldn't even exist! 5 7.58% Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll Horizon, the Gravitic Anomaly 1234511 ... 12 Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member This is a very thorough champion; if you want to quickly read his concept without numbers and such getting in the way, please skip to the bolded "Too long; didn't read!" section placed at the bottom of the post. If you like what you see, don't be afraid to read over the rest of the champion and tell me what you think! Also, if you see any errors or information left out don't hesitate to point it out, as this is my first created champion. Feel free to suggest useful items or strategies, they are greatly appreciated. Comments, compliments, and criticisms welcome! Horizon, the Gravitic Anomaly Lore: The city of Zaun has always been known for its lenient rules on magic use and experiments in its borders. Kiefe, a powerful and innovative mage for his time, found this the perfect environment for his controversial experiments. The concept of gravity greatly intrigued Kiefe, and has often taken interest in the magical manipulation of it. During one of his experiments on live subjects, Kiefe lost control of his magic, causing a destructive blast to shudder throughout his study. Glass broke, most of the furniture shattered, and Kiefe was thrown back against the wall. As the smoke cleared, a strange quadruped shape stood where the blast had originated. The specific animal that Kiefe had been experimenting on before the incident was a mere frog, and the figure of the odd creature seemed to most resemble that animal. Its eyes darting around the room, the creature soon set its gaze on Kiefe. He saw what must have been a malicious looking smile before hearing a croak of a laugh. That laugh was the last thing that he had ever heard, and if there is any life after death, must still haunt him to this day. The creature opened its mouth wide, a seemingly infinite abyss when looking inside of it, and ripped Kiefe off of the wall by force alone and into his gaping maw. And thus Horizon came into existence. No one knows what concoction of magic or science that led to the mutation of such an abomination, but that never bothered Horizon. A sentient and frighteningly intelligent being, Horizon learned quickly the skills needed to interact with others both on and off the field. He never speaks much, but is renowned for his silver tongue. Horizon coined his own name after approaching the League, but it is unknown why he came and joined. Some say it's because such a monstrosity couldn't belong anywhere else, but the most likely theory is that Horizon simply loves to freely destroy everything in his path. "I do not look forward to the day that Horizon gets exceptionally hungry." Heimerdinger, upon inspection of Horizon's arrival to the League. Physical Appearance: Horizon has sleek black skin, with the head and body similar to that of a tree frog. His eyes are shifty and spiteful, more intelligent looking than that of a mindless animal. His spine is visible, placed outside of his skin, with his ribcage reaching down to touch his purple undersides at the longest points. The spine extends down into a long tail made completely of bone, an oddity even on a creature such as Horizon. His posture is more reptilian than that of a frog, legs outstretched like that of a lizard. Both rear and front legs are the same length. The legs below the knee are thick compared to the top half, ending in thick claws. Horizon's throat is able to expand like that of a frog, and is often used for his croaking speech or charging up powerful shots of singularities. The inside of his mouth is pitch black, seeming to absorb the light near it when open, and has no visible tongue to speak of. Official Art: Full credit to Vaylore, who did an amazing job on this piece. Check out her thread, she has many good works! Fan Art: Apparently, Horizon has become popular enough to denote people wanting to just randomly draw him too. Awesome! An awesome bi-pedal rendition of Horizon made by Takatura, who also has his own art thread! A humorous interpretation in a modern minimalistic digital art medium by CanibalAnimal. Role: Tanky support Damage 51 (+3.2/level. 108.6 at 18) Health 469 (+99/level. 2251 at 18) Mana 320 (+30/level. 860 at 18) Move Speed 300 Armor 15 (+3.2/level. 72.6 at 18) Magic Resist 30 (+1/level. 48 at 18) Health Regen 1.30 (+0.14/level. 3.82 at 18) Mana Regen 1.20 (+1.5/level. 28.2 at 18) Attack Range 125 (Passive) Gravitic Force: As Horizon gains bonus HP, his density and the effect that his mass has on other champions is intensified. Horizon slows enemy champions that are moving away from and speeds up allied champions moving towards him based on his current amount of bonus HP. After reaching 250 bonus HP, Horizon slows enemies and speeds up allies by 5%. For every 100 bonus HP thereafter, the effect increases by 1%, capping at 20% (1750 bonus HP) Range: 1000 Q-Densify: Target champion's density is increased, giving heightened resistance to damage or impairing their abilities for a duration. This ability works differently on allies than on enemies. When used on allies, it increases Armor and magic resistance as well as giving them an aura that's the same effect as Horizon's passive (If an ally or enemy would be in range of both this ability and Horizon's own passive, the more powerful effect will be used). When used on enemies, it forces them to have a casting time on all their abilities equal to .2 seconds and are unable to use item actives or summoner spells for the duration. Cost: 40/50/60/70/80 Cooldown: 15/14/13/12/11 Range: 800 Bonus MR/Armor: 20/35/50/65/80 (For allies) Gravitic Pull Effect: 5/10/15/20/20% (For allies) Ability duration: 4/4.5/5/5.5/6 seconds W-Gravity Field: The target location's gravity is multiplied drastically, crushing and briefly stunning enemies caught in the area. The effects of the alteration linger, reducing attack speed of recovered champions for a time. This skill hits the center of the area at a point, then expands to the maximum diameter of the area over a period of one second. A dark, pulsating line will circumvent the area's edge to mark the maximum area of the skill. Cost: 50/65/80/95/110 Cooldown: 16/14.5/13/11.5/10 Expansion time: 1 second Range: 600/300 diameter Stun time: .5 seconds Attack Speed debuff: 15%/20%/25%/30%/35% Attack Speed debuff duration: 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 Damage: 80/125/170/215/260 (+0.5 per AP) Magic damage E-Void Wake: Horizon drastically decreases his mass for a second and dashes forward, the space of the area behind him collapsing and leaving an untraversable void that pushes enemy units out of the area and damages enemies that he runs into. Cost: 70/80/90/100/110 Cooldown: 18/16.5/14/12.5/11 Range: 600 Void width: 75 Void duration: 2/2.25/2.50/2.75/3 Damage: 90/135/180/225/270 (+0.5 per AP) Magic damage R-Singularity Shot: Horizon fires a singularity that explodes on impact with terrain or reaching maximum range, dealing magic damage to surrounding enemies. Additionally, the singularity will carry with it the first enemy champion it passes over: suppressing them for the duration and stunning them briefly if they are pushed into terrain. Cost: 150/165/180 Cooldown: 120/100/80 Range: 1500 Enemy travel cap: 1.5 seconds (900 units) Shot speed: 600 Stun duration: 2/2.5/3 Damage: 100/200/300 (+1.2 per AP) Magic damage Strategy: Horizon naturally has a lot of health, making him adept at charging into the middle of a battle and altering the field in favor of his allies. He does this by his mere presence with his passive, as well as having several forms of CC and access to a wall with a long range to fill his role. Recommended items: Chalice of Harmony: This item gives some early and well-used MR and killer mana regen. This is a great early item, but when end game comes along or if the game is extended a little too long so that your slots are all full, don't be afraid to swap this out with a better item, as the mana regeneration is not as helpful when using some of the other recommended items (Or when building mana regen heavy) Mercury Treads: These are the perfect boots for Horizon, as they let him absorb CC better for his team as well as add more MR to make him tankier. Banshee's Veil: Every stat that this item gives is put to great use. Health gives Horizon more time to take damage as well as power up his passive, mana lets him use his support abilities more frequently, The Magic Resist is well well used and the passive is just awesome. Frozen Heart: Providing a massive armor and mana bonus, as well as cooldown and a 24/7 debuff that has great synergy with your skills? This is one of the best items to get for Horizon that doesn't increase his health. Sunfire Cape: This items gives a decent amount of armor and health, as well as that sweet PBAoEDoT (I love acronyms). This item just screams out for champions that want to be right up in the action, which fits Horizon's style. Warmog's Armor: Probably one of the best items for Horizon when taking into consideration pure meatiness. That health bonus is great on any tank, and Horizon uses it and then some when taking his passive into consideration. This item lets Horizon quickly reach his passive's maximum effectiveness. Uses for moves -Horizon's Q, Densify, is a multi-use skill that is both used to stop an opponent in their tracks and for turning any allied champion into a tank. Densify gains effectiveness very quickly with levels, and so it is a great tool to level quickly when laning with a champion that is either under heavy harassment from the enemy or is naturally squishy, as well as having more presence on your passive's overall effect. Forcing an enemy to spend more time using abilities can shut down an escaping champion, especially ones that rely on Flash, letting an allied champion or turret snag the kill more easily. This also lets Horizon more easily place his other skills, further debilitating an enemy's effectiveness on the field. -Gravity Field is Horizon's W, and is his main harassing skill. The wide area can easily debuff groups of enemies, as well as provide a solid amount of base damage. The cooldown is a crippling feature, so the skill needs to be quickly leveled if planned to be used constantly. Gravity field is as much a defensive tool as an offensive one, and is great at dealing with enemies that bolster a powerful auto-attack. The stun time is not much, but is reliable at momentarily pausing an enemy champion, which can mean the difference between securing a kill or saving an ally. The wide area is also great for teamfights, easily debuffing a majority of enemies in one hit. -Void Wake, Horizon's E, is a long-ranged dash skill. The wall left behind is a useful tool for cutting off escaping or advancing enemies, especially when coming in from an angle. The nature of the skill itself leaves a hole where Horizon ends up, so it is impossible to create a sealed wall between two other walls (such as Anivia's wall of ice when used to cut off whole paths of a jungle). It is, however, great at funneling an enemy into a longer path and making them more susceptible to attacks from turrets and allies, as well for more easily placing Horizon's other skills to further this effect. The dash is also an excellent chasing tool, considering its range, although Horizon's lack of hard damage can make it hard to take an an enemy alone unless they are weakened. It is also equally effective at escaping, not only making a large distance between yourself and your pursuer, but also creating a wall that can make chasing even more difficult. -Horizon's ultimate is Singularity Shot. This skill is used to shut down a single enemy, either stunning them for a long duration or completely removing them from the area if placed correctly. The stun can let yourself and an ally punish a flanked enemy when pushed into a wall early on, or even get pushed into turret fire if lucky. This skill can also be used defensively to take out a single pursuing enemy; which can possibly lead to a counterattack if the odds are in your favor. Late game, during teamfights, this can also be used to turn the tides around by taking an enemy away from the battle (hopefully for a long duration, as the effectiveness of the skill depends entirely on positioning). This ult takes a bit of skill to use the way you might intend, and Horizon's other abilities can be used to place himself at the right angle to land a strategic shot. Being a heavy tank, Horizon relies on not taking damage, but by also having the mana to be sure and provide efficient debuffs against the enemy. With this in mind, a 0/23/7 build seems the best. All damage reducing masteries, along with ones that grant health, are used greatly on Horizon. The 7 points in utility are for Expanded Mind and Meditation, and an extra point. In the defensive tree, make sure to get Veteran's Scars, and max out all the bottom tier masteries as well as Indomitable, Evasion, and Honor Guard (of course pick up Juggernaut). A 0/9/21 build is very viable as well, as you are still able to get Veteran's scars and 6/3 Armor/MR from the defensive tree. In the utility, you want to focus on mana regeneration and gold generation, with some points in experience boosting and cooldown. Flat HP Quintessences, Flat HP Marks, Flat Armor Seals, and Flat Magic Resistance Glyph give Horizon added defenses and a boost to his passive. This gives him powerful early game tankiness, which makes up for the lack of items early on. Quotes/Animation: Horizon speaks with a deep, dull croak in his voice. Besides this, his speech is almost eloquent in nature, although a bit slower than most. Upon selection: "There will be nothing left." "I will crush them." "With haste" "Their screams, they sound pleasant" Horizon lets out a deep laughter Horizon croaks. "I will pluck you right off the ground." "Your mass won't even satiate me." "I'm getting...hungry." Horizon stands still save for the slow swaying of his body and tail. Periodically, he will stop moving and puff up his chin for a second. Horizon moves much like that of a lizard, his legs low to the ground and his tail moving side to side as a counterbalance. He has his mouth slightly open, in what can only be described as a smile. Keeping his legs still, Horizon lunge forward slightly to bite, his head moving slightly to the side each time. On a critical hit, the bite will exude a purplish aura that fades quickly. Horizon opens his mouth wide and bobs his body up and down slightly to a rhythm, also swaying his body every other bob (most notably his tail). Taking a few steps back, Horizon then quickly scuttles to his original position and opens his mouth wide while craning the front part of his body upward. A dark, purplish aura exudes from his mouth and slightly around his body. Horizon stands still and simply smiles, opening and closing his mouth to mimic what would be smacking his lips. After starting what would be a croak, the note is then sustained while Horizon's body quivers, eventually and suddenly collapsing in on himself to leave a faint purple cloud that slowly fades. Too long; didn't read!: Concept: Horizon is a tanky support, who excels at stacking health and shutting down enemies with many forms of CC. He does his best in the midst of battle to dish out his powerful debuffs across an entire team. Passive: As Horizon gains bonus HP, his density and the effect that his mass has on other champions is intensified. This increases the movement speed of allied champions moving towards him and slows enemy champions moving away from him based on his bonus HP. (Bonus health is health gained from sources such as items, runes, and masteries) Q-Densify: Target champion's density is increased, giving heightened resistance to damage or reducing their ability to move for a duration. This works differently on allies than on enemies. Allies effected by this ability have their Armor/MR increased. Enemies effected by this ability cannot use items or summoner spells, and abilities have a very short casting time increase. R-Singularity Shot: Horizon fires a singularity of immense gravity that drags the first enemy champion it hits with it along its shot path. The attack and any champion caught with it will continue to move forward until it hits an unmovable object (Such as a wall or a turret) or reaches 900 units traveled, dealing damage. The enemy cannot move or activate any abilities while they are under the effect of Singularity Shot. The champion hit by this ability is only stunned if they hit an unmovable object. Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member November 2, 2011 -Changed passive ratio from 1%/25 bonus HP to 1%/75 bonus HP. This lets the passive still have a considerable effect on the battle field without being completely overpowering. -Changed range on R from unlimited to 2500, and removed AD scaling. This lets the attack still have a significant impact when positioned correctly, but won't cause cross-map pulls. Increased base damage from 100/225/350 to 100/250/400. -Added lore! Critique on this is welcome as well -Gravity Field bonus damage reduced from (+0.8 per AP) to (+0.2 per AP) Attack speed debuff increased from a flat 20% to 15%/20%/25%/30%/35%. This will let Horizon to rely on debuffs rather than hard damage, and will provide a good defence for the team from any attack oriented enemies at higher levels. -Void Wake now scales with AP instead of AD, and is reduced from (+0.5 per AP) to (+0.3 per AP). Cooldown reduced from 19/17.5/15/13.5/12 to 18/16.5/14/12.5/11; a 1 second reduction for all levels. This serves the same purpose as the change to Gravity Field, interchanging damage for functionality. November 3, 2011 -Added a basic strategy section with recommended items; will most likely be expanded soon. -Added extra effect to passive, giving AP as a percentage of bonus HP as well as its original effect. Changed name of passive to Gravitic Pull to Gravitic Force to better fit this new effect. Added range value. -Densify changed from having a flat armor/MR buff and movement speed debuff to having varied effects depending on the target. Allied champions now have half of the debuff that cannot reduce movement speed below Horizon's passive percentage, and twice the armor/magic resist buff. Enemies now receive half the magic/armor resist buff and twice the movement speed debuff. Armor/magic resist values decreased from 20/30/40/50/60 to 10/20/30/40/50. Movement speed debuff values changed from 20/22.5/25/27.5/30% to 10/15/20/25/30%. This is a substantial buff to the ability, but compares well to other buffs and debuffs as it balances out with fairly minor beneficial/negative effects. November 4, 2011 -Reworded passive slightly for better clarity. November 8, 2011 -Edited passive to remove a buff to the enemy that sped them up when moving towards Horizon, and changed the ratio of the passive from 1%/75 bonus HP to 1%/100 bonus HP to help balance it out. Also removed the AP scaling from the passive, as it is unneeded. -Replaced Rod of Ages with Banshee's Veil in the recommended items list. I feel that Banshee's Veil achieves the same goal as Rod of Ages, and replaces the ill-scaling AP with magic resistance and a wonderful passive. -Changed the W, Gravity Field, to have a more unique area of effect. Instead of hitting the entire area of effect after a short delay, the skill now hits the center of the area instantly and expands outwards over a period of one second. This sets it apart from other skills with a circular AoE. -Added to the Strategy section to include uses for Horizon's skills; check 'em out! -Also added a rune/mastery section. Input and other strategies also appreciated. November 10, 2011 -Passive changed from increasing a flat 1% per 100 bonus HP, to increasing 2% that reduces by .1% for every accumulative 100 bonus HP, ending at 21% with 2000 bonus HP. This gives the passive a bigger impact on earlier game play while adding a concrete limit to how powerful it can become. -Densify changed from giving Armor/Magic Resistance and a speed debuff to both allies and enemies, to only buffing allies and debuffing enemies. Lowered values from a max of 100 Armor/MR (what would have been 25 for enemies) to max of 80 at level 5. Changed the effect when used on enemies by severely reducing the movement speed debuff (that stacks with Horizon's passive, providing a maximum of 36% when under the effect of the passive, and 15% when not) as well as adding a new effect; enemies are forced to channel for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second to use champion and item abilities. This makes the ability more unique, so that it is a CC unlike other champions. -Increased diameter of Gravity Field from 250 to 300. -Changed Void Wake to deal Magic damage instead of physical. Reworded description slightly for flavor. -Changed Horizon's ult in the following way: Range decreased from 2500 to 1800, Damage reduced from 100/250/400 to 100/200/300, Channel time removed, Stun now only activated when the enemy hits a solid object. Reworded description to include shot behavior and added a shot speed of 400 to better clarify the effect. This, hopefully, better clarifies the effect and makes it a little less powerful. -Created a "Too long; didn't read" section at the bottom of the post so that people are not forced to read a wall of text to know the concept of the champion November 14, 2011 -Increased the damage of Gravity Field and Void Wake both by 40. From 70/110/150/190/230 to 80/125/175/220/270 and 80/120/160/200/240 to 90/135/285/230/280. This makes up for the pathetic AP ratio that Horizon has, so that he has a bit more 1v1 power. November 15, 2011 -Updated the mastery section for season 2! Big changes; the new masteries greatly benefit Horizon this time around. -Updated format with quote tags; hopefully it'll be a bit easier to read, although I kept the "tl;dr" section -Added a superfluous Quotes/Animation section, hopefully adding a bit of depth to his character. Also added a provocative quote at the end of the lore. November 18, 2011 -Reduced forces channel on Densify from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 seconds to a flat .5 seconds. Increased movement speed debuff from 15% to 20%. This gives a little more leeway to enemies while still providing a considerable debuff and accomplishing its goal of disrupting burst casters. -Reduced range on Singularity Shot from 1800 to 1500, increased bullet speed from 400 to 1000, decreased stun time from 1/2/3 seconds to 1/1.5/2 seconds. This severely reduces the amount of time that an enemy is removed from battle, making it a bit more fair. December 18, 2011 -Added artwork, awesome stuff! -Changed ratio on Gravitic Pull to something simpler. Instead of increasing by 2%, then 1.9%, etc, it now increases a flat amount at 250 bonus HP and more for every 100 bonus HP afterwards. This raised the cap from 21% slow to 25%. The range was reduced from 1200 to 1000 to compensate. -Densify: Removed slowing effect on enemies, as Horizon already slows with his passive. Replaced with an effect that prevents effected champions from casting summoner spells or using item effects. Changed the forced channel to a flat .2 seconds, as 1 second punishes burst casters way too much. Changed from forced channel to casting time, to clarify that the abilities cannot be interrupted. Changed ability duration from a flat 5 seconds to a scaling 4/4.5/5/5.5/6. This is a buff, and scaling makes things more balanced. Added an effect for allies that are effected; a scaling ability identical to Horizon's passive. This is a small buff, but makes it unique compared to other similar abilities. -Gravity Field: Raised AP ratio from .2 to .5. This will give Horizon builds other than pure AP, and along with the cooldown and mana cost brings it closer to damage that is similar to other tanky AP users. Reduced base damage from 80/125/175/220/270 to 80/125/170/215/260 to compensate a bit and make the numbers nicer. -Void Wake: Raised AP ratio from .3 to .5, for the same reasons as Gravity Field, as well as decreasing the base damage from 90/135/185/230/280 to 90/135/180/225/270 -Singularity Shot: Updated description to be more understandable, as well as increasing the AP ration from 1 to 1.2. With the updated AP ratios, Horizon can function both as a hard tank/support and an AP damage/support, although his AP ratios are much smaller than other mages. -Small updates to descriptions, masteries, runes, etc from patches and such. May 16th, 2012 -Changed Singularity's shot range from 1800 to 1500. Increased shot speed from 400 to 600 (or a 2.5 second travel time). Also created a travel cap for when the shot contacts a champion to 1.5 seconds. This gives a maximum travel distance of 900 units despite how far the shot initially traveled before hitting the champion. This gives a more consistent effect and won't lock down enemies for an insane amount of time if caught in melee range. -Reduced the maximum slow from Horizon's passive from 25% to 20%. The formula remains the same, making the maximum amount of bonus health effecting the passive to be at 1750, down from 2250. This makes Horizon's late game presence slightly less powerful. Horizon's Q has been changed to reflect this. -Reduced Horizon's E dash distance from 700 to 600 units. -The art links actually work now! Go ahead, click 'em! June 2nd, 2012 -Changed the damage on the Singularity Shot from 100/200/300 (+1.2 per AP) Magic damage to 150/250/350 (+.8 per AP) Magic damage. -Reduced cooldown on Gravity Field from 16/14.5/13/11.5/10 to 14/12.5/11/9.5/8. This is Horizon's main source of damage, and should be taken advantage a bit more frequently. -Slight change to recommended items section. Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member Actually looks pretty nice, but 2 things seem a tad strong to me 1) The passive-If it's bonus HP, it really needs to be like 1%/75 or something... getting a free 6% slow from a ruby crystal is kind of ridiculous, considering that it will add up very quickly 2) Unlimited range on the ult. I think it should have a limit something slightly shorter than tf/panth's tele range, because then if you get ganked in a top/bot lane you could shoot someone all the way across to the other side of the map This is, however, a very well made champion. The synergy is very nice and it's a cool theme to work with ^^ Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member Thank you, SeventhStorm! There aren't enough support champions nowadays, and I wanted to help that here. 1) The reasoning behind the powerful passive is that I wanted Horizon's presence to be an extreme alteration of the field around him, both positively and negatively. In giving a negative effect I thought I could get away with increasing the overall effect of the passive. I'll see what other people think about it, but I forsee that the passive will be reduced in the future. 2) I think that's a fair change. It'll prevent crazy cross-map moves yet still get the point across of taking an enemy almost completely out of a teamfight when positioned correctly. 2500 range seems reasonable, yes? Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member agree with SeventhStorm passive: from just runes I got around 300hp = 7.5% slow I don't want count WARMOG ARMOR! -> could turn him in BLACK HOLE :-) mb increase ratio? don't know about R distance, mb if unlimited range then in should at least highlight impact spot (as Kog R) In R: Damage: 100/225/350 (+1 per AP)(+1 per bonus AD) Magic damage Remove AD ratio? but concept pretty interesting! Why not! could you help with mine, read V3.0 (first version from top) Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member You've got a good point there. Warmogs would make the ability considerably broken in its currant state, especially when stacked on itself. The ult works like Ashe's ult; a skillshot that continues forward. Though the unlimited range is just a little too much, without providing much added functionality. Thank you for the input! I'll look at your champ tomorrow, as I've got to get some sleep for the night. Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member Bump for added lore, will be adding physical description soon! Don't be afraid to give your comments, criticisms, and suggestions. I love 'em. Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member One more note ~Might want to reduce the AP Ratio on his W/R, and then give E AP scaling too. It gives him a lot more item synergy (ROA, Rylais) because there aren't really any good hybrid tank items. However, with the high AP bonus on W/R you might see him built as a nuke support caster, which i don't think was your intention edit: :O he's a frog Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member Good point. I'll be updating his attacks to reduce scaling, focus on AP, and add a slight buff to non-damaging effects to center around the fact that he isn't meant for damage. Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it. Senior Member After snooping in Leaguecraft abit Lowering his mana pool by 20-30 at level one and then increasing the growth by 2 or 3/level and increasing mana regen to 2.3-2.5 might be nice But it's probably fine as it is, just chucking an idea out there He is a pretty solid champion. Really like him. =) 1234511 ... 12	http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?s=&t=1437704	<urn:uuid:e1f697fd-27d9-444f-b2ee-101645b5fb6b>	en	0.954374	0.023003
Title: One Evening in Imladris Author: Pentangle Rating: K Characters: Many! Setting: A year or so before the Council of Elrond Summary: Friends. Just friends. corvath nel: three rings corvath leben: five rings The sun had just begun to set on a late spring evening in Imladris. Sunset came early to the valley since the cliffs cut off the light long before it began to darken on the plateau above the hidden refuge. The evening meal was nearly over, and as elves began to leave the tables it became evident that this would be one of those times when few would remain in the Hall of Fire. Some left as individuals, wanting to enjoy the warm weather and the mystical hour of twilight alone. Others sought out favored companions and drifted away to private chambers, walks along the river, casual competition at the butts, or other pastimes. Elrond and Lolindir The Lord of Imladris, walking serenely and with his usual measured step, left the Hall and started for his own suite. But once he turned a corner and ascertained he was alone in the corridor stretching before him, he grasped his robes in both hands and began to run lightly. A figure stood in Elrond's doorway and gestured him within, then closed the door quickly behind them both. "Did you bring them?" Elrond's question was directed at an elf that was not quite the norm for the kingdom of Imladris. He was a little, well, short, and almost, almost ugly. He had a rather large nose, and bushy eyebrows that nearly met together. He was half as old as Elrond and most considered him as foolish as they considered the elven lord wise. "Yes, everything is on the balcony, we may leave when we wish. Have you escaped?" "Anyone who wanted to speak with me received the Eyebrow of Doom." Lolindir laughed aloud. "You know about that?" "Of course I do. I know every name I am called. What sort of All-Knowing, Mysterious Wielder of Elven Power would I be if I did not?" "Point taken. Now hurry and get out of those fusty things, and into something that will not shriek 'here comes the ruler of Imladris' as soon as anyone lays eyes on you!" As Elrond disrobed in his sleeping chamber he called out through the open door, "How are we going to get out of the House?" "Over the balcony; how else?" An outraged shout: "I have not climbed over a balcony since I escaped from Celeborn when I was courting Celebrian!" "All the more reason to do it now. You are becoming entirely too old, Elrond, and I am not taking about your age!" An almost unrecognizable figure strode out of the bedroom. Instead of heavy, formal robes in luxurious, colorful fabrics, there were tight leggings and a simple tunic of drab grey-brown suede. Instead of elaborate braids adorned with jeweled clips, there was a single plait tied off with a scrap of leather. Elrond strode up to Lolindir and placed his hands on his hips. "Well?" "You look like Elladan when he was 69 and sneaking out of the House!" "I am a long way from 69, but I am sneaking out of the House, so I must be properly dressed." "Let's go. I will take the poles, and you can bring the bait." It was with great difficulty that Lolindir kept a straight face as the distinguished Lord Elrond—ruler of Imladris and sometime Herald to King Gil-galad—slipped furtively over the balcony railing. Looking like he was born to it, too! He grasped a vine here and there, and then dropped lightly to the ground. Lolindir quickly followed, and the two disappeared down a little used path, carrying their unwieldy gear. Within a short time, they were sitting on the banks of the Bruinen, their feet bare, their hands holding fishing rods. The peace of the scene was all pervading, composed of the occasional gurgle from a rising fish, the barest trace of a spring breeze, and the friends' soft murmurs of conversation about nothing at all. Even so, it was not until the fireflies began to flash in their meandering dance that Elrond suddenly gave a sigh so long and deep that it seemed he breathed out all the troubles of the world. Lolindir said nothing but reached out his hand and fleetingly grasped the wrist of the dark haired elf. Elrond patted the shoulder nearest him, and then flicked his line farther into the gentle current. Much later, when the moon was high, Lolindir drew in his pole for the last time, laid it on the bank beside him, and pulled on the string secured to one slim foot. It slid out of the water until the stringer appeared with four large fish attached. "I am so looking forward to breakfast tomorrow. All the luck came my way tonight!" Elrond stood slowly, stretching out his back as he gained his feet. He looked at the river, the fireflies, and the moon. Then he smiled with great affection at the elf beside him. "Not all." He sighed deeply again, but this time with ease and contentment. "Thank you." Elrohir and Morgil Elrohir, raising a fork that held the last bite of succulent asparagus, saw his quarry leaving the Hall. He dropped his fork, slammed his linen square down on the table, and scraped his chair back roughly. Elladan's head turned to his brother and he demanded, "Where are you going in such a hurry?" Elrohir said grimly, "I need to resolve a small…situation." "Sounds like you might need someone at your back." Elrohir made a sharp gesture with his hand as he started to stride away. "Not this time, 'Dan." The younger twin son of Elrond walked swiftly through the halls and out of the House, his prey always just ahead of him, turning a corner or heading down a flight of stairs. Eventually Elrohir overtook him on the now deserted path to the training ground, and put a hand roughly on his shoulder, yanking the elf around. The startled look on the face of his prize changed into a smirk when he saw who accosted him. "Ah, Lord Elrohir, is there something I can do for you?" The elf facing Elrohir was a typical Noldo, tall and slim, with the ethereal features of the old blood. He was dark haired and grey-eyed as was Elrohir, but the son of the Peredhil had a sweet upward curve to his lips, and a light bronze tint to his skin, whereas Morgil's pale countenance frowned at the best of times, and his mouth was usually drawn down at one side in a sulky sneer. Elrohir said between clenched teeth, "I have had enough. You defy me; you encourage dissension in the ranks –" The warrior facing him spoke with a voice of silk, "I have never disobeyed any order given me by a superior officer. You can bring no witness that I have done so." "No, you have not. But you take every opportunity to disparage me before my command. You constantly whisper, and drag your feet at every turn. It is obvious you have some problem with me as your commander, and I want to know what it is!" The silk roughened a bit as suppressed anger took hold of Morgil. "It is not commonly considered wise to speak too frankly to those in authority. If I speak the truth, you will see to it I pay for it." "Speak freely and without prejudice. I will not charge you at a later time for your words." "Then I will tell you, fortunate son. Son of the ruler of Imladris. Who is five hundred years younger than I. I have more experience, more kills, more training - I should be commander in your stead!" "My father did not give me my commission; it was Glorfindel, and I doubt even my father could force him to accept an officer against his wishes! My father leaves all such decisions in his hands." The other elf was hissing now, spittle flecking the corners of his lips in his rage. "Yesssss! And he is ssso impartial iss he not? The mighty champion who dandled you on his knee! The sons he never had – that is what all say about you and your cursed brother! Glorfindel would give you the moon if you asked for it! He wants his precious favorites riding by his side, not some nobody like me!" The harsh accusations angered Elrohir for many reasons. Glorfindel was his hero, his mentor, and, ever since he became an adult, his friend. He would stand for no slander against him. Even more, though, the accusations stung for another reason. In the mind of every ruler's son, be he man, elf, or dwarf, lingers the fear that perhaps he does not deserve all he has been given—all that is his simply because of who his father is. Elrohir felt an unaccustomed fury sweep over him. When he was new to his first command, he had dealt with these accusations many times. But those days were long ago; it had been so many years since he had become confidant and comfortable with his abilities and position that this new challenge seemed outrageous. Morgil had come from an outlying settlement at the far reaches of the Valley and had detested Elrohir on sight, for no reason as far as Elrohir could see. He had tried in every way he could think of to bring this troublesome warrior around, but nothing had worked. Now the ripples of contention were spreading and Elrohir would not have it. As the blood pounded in Elrohir's ears, he decided he had had enough of being always in control of his emotions. Enough of being the twin who mediated, who counseled, who was the peacemaker. More than enough! There was no way to tell who sprang first, for suddenly both were moving with arms outstretched and teeth bared. It was not a pretty fight. No careful holds, or throws requiring finesse and control. None of the respect and admiration for a telling blow that was normally accorded between those sparring as fellow warriors. It was gouge and snarl and thrash and roll and dig-with-elbows and thrust-fingers-toward-eyes and knees-to-groins and gasp-for-breath and spit-blood and intending-to-hurt. Morgil was a fine warrior with much experience, but he had not sparred from an elfling with Glorfindel of Gondolin. Elrohir rolled the other elf beneath him yet again, and this time kept the upper hand. He pinned Morgil's hands and got to his knees, keeping one firmly planted in the defeated elf's abdomen. Both heaved air into starved lungs and Elrohir spat twice to the side, clearing his mouth of blood and dirt. His rage began to cool and he realized with dread the heinous crime he had committed, though he was careful not to let it show on his face. His gaze bore fiercely into Morgil's and he first lifted, then slammed the other elf's wrists into the ground, bruising his own bleeding knuckles further in the process. "Now listen, Morgil, and listen well! I did not choose my father any more than you did. Do you think I am privileged? Why, so I am! My robes are silk while yours are coarsely woven, and my bed is softer than you have ever dreamt of. My daily companions are heroes of all the Ages; elves that are no more than legend to most of our kind. But in my service to Imladris, I have fought for every promotion. Lord Elrond and my mentors are so fearful lest they be seen to prefer me over others, that I must do thrice as well to gain advancement! Corvath nel got you your place as an archer, but Glorfindel would not let me out of the training yard until I hit corvath leben five times out of six! In every position I have held, from the lowest to my rank as your commander, I have been examined like no other warrior in Imladris, save only my brother." Elrohir's voice cracked with frustration, and Morgil's eyes widened in surprise and grudging sympathy. Elrohir continued, "Do you remember when you were careless on your scout, and we ended up fighting five score yrch instead of the three score you reported? We lost seven elves that need not have died, and I could see the cost to your pride—I could see the grief and guilt you bore, and how it tore at you. I stood you down, yes, and you hated it, but you were back to your rank in only two years, and we have never mentioned your failure again. I made a much lesser mistake when I was half the age you were, and I was stood down for fifty years!" Elrohir sat back on his heels, still straddling Morgil, but releasing his hands. His head bent and he looked exhausted and grim. "And once again I have made a mistake and will suffer for it." Morgil, not moving, asked quietly, "What mistake have you made today, son of Lord Elrond?" "I have attacked one under my command; under my protection. You will be pleased, Morgil, for although it is not likely you will be given my place, at least you will have the satisfaction of seeing me lose it." Morgil was silent for a long time, then he said gruffly, "That will not happen. Unless you are such a fool that you go running to Lord Glorfindel with the tale yourself. You gave me leave to speak my mind without fear of reprisal. That we took it far beyond words does not mean you do not have the same assurance." Elrohir stared in blank surprise and Morgil said bitterly, "I may not be the son of the Lord of Imladris, but I am not dishonorable! I have not taken my quarrel with you to others behind your back, however much you may think it, and I will not now." "And what of the whispers? I have seen you –" "Yes! You have seen! I have always acted openly before you!" Elrohir smirked in disbelief. "You mean you only knife me in the back to my face?" Then he chuckled at how ridiculous his words sounded. Morgil could not help a small grin. "Yes, damn you!" He then sobered quickly, meeting Elrohir's eyes unflinchingly. "I have never thought that there might be disadvantages to your position. I saw only assemblies, promotions, luxury, and ease. I am…I am sorry, Lord Elrohir. I will not cause further difficulties for your command." Elrohir clambered shakily to his feet. He looked down at Morgil and said sadly. "Do you know how many people call me simply Elrohir? No? Perhaps a dozen. And of those, other than my brothers and sister, most are my elders by years unnumbered." He stretched out his hand to help Morgil to stand. "So you are saying you have subjects, but few friends." "My father has subjects, but I certainly have few friends among those near to me in age." The two stood facing each other, bloodied, bruised, and filthy. Elrohir said nothing, waiting to see how his tentative overture had been received. Morgil kept his gaze fixed on the ground. He could not believe he was even contemplating friendship with this elf he had despised for so long. But he was not overly supplied with friends himself, for his sour nature hardly attracted them. Of course, all knew of the warm heart and noble spirit of the elf still standing before him. What would it be like to have such a one for a friend? He slowly raised his head. "That could be changed. We could change it, you and I. I would like to…I would like to try." Elrohir smiled, but then cautioned, "Unless Glorfindel removes you from my troop, you will still be under my command and must comport yourself accordingly." "Understood. When before the warriors and on duty, I shall call you Lord Elrohir and show you the respect you deserve….But what am I to call you at other times, son of Lord Elrond? Lord or friend?" "Elrohir. Call me Elrohir." Elladan and Lindir In a suite of rooms in a quiet part of the House, one of the twin sons of Elrond and the elf lord's chief musician stood tensely, facing each other and oblivious of the beautiful night beyond the balcony. They were in Lindir's study, which was unusually large to accommodate a standing harp and racks of other instruments. The maestro, the only elf with snow-white hair in Imladris, kept his green eyes fixed on the grey ones of the dark-haired warrior before him. "Please, Elladan." "No. Absolutely not." "Just once. Or maybe twice. Or three times, but that is all!" "NO! Must we have this discussion every time we get together? It is rare enough that you have no duties after dinner. Let us enjoy the time this evening as we have always done. Do not pine for what cannot be." "But it could be, if you were not so stubborn! No one need know a thing about it!" "And I suppose no one will have questions when you cannot walk without groaning tomorrow?" "I will say I fell down the stairs." "You cannot lie to save yourself, or, more importantly, you cannot lie well enough to save me. I will not have everyone in Imladris looking at me like some despoiler of the Valar's gifts. Elbereth alone knows what my father would do to me, and Glorfindel – I cannot bear to think of it!" Elladan gave a heart-felt shudder. Lindir sniffed. "It is not like I would have no say in the proceedings. I am no blushing youth, afraid to speak up for myself! I will tell Elrond it was my idea." "My dear Lindir, how long have you known my father? He will listen politely to your dissuasion, then kill me anyway. In fact, while he is listening he will be thinking of a creative approach for my execution. No thank you!" Lindir laughed but quickly sobered and said softly, "Do you know when I first manifested my gift? I was not yet three. From that moment I was trained and honed and polished. Do not mistake me—I am grateful for all I was given, and I would not change my life for anything on Arda. But sometimes I want…I… need…to step away from the role all elvendom expects of me. Just for a short while. Look at you, Elladan! You are one of the finest warriors ever seen, yet there is more to you than that. Your counsel is well-regarded and you are a scholar—though you try to hide it. Please, Elladan." "Let me see your hand." The warrior took the musician's hand in his own and turned it palm up. He stroked over the smooth skin until he reached the small calluses on the fingertips. "Valar! It is as soft as a child's. Feel mine and then ask me again." Lindir took his friend's hand and made his own explorations. Elladan's hand was tanned and sharply defined with taught tendons standing like cables. It was scarred with faint pale lines and from palm to finger ends was heavily callused. He said gently, "You could not play with this hand; not the harp, nor flute, nor rebec. We each have our calling, and many are the warriors who have been brought peace through your gift." Lindir sharply tapped the hand he held. "You are being deliberately obtuse. You did not get this hand by playing at being a warrior a few times! If you train me but a little, my hands will not be ruined. Can you not see? Our world slips into Darkness ever faster, and everyone must be prepared to help in the fight." "There are ways and ways of fighting. What are we warriors fighting for, if not a world where beauty can flourish unmolested? You show us why we fight and you give us respite from the bitterness that would overtake those who make killing their livelihood. Can there be a finer contribution than that?" "I do make a contribution, that I know, but I want to be able to do as all the other elves of Imladris can, if worst come to worst. Tinker, clothier, smith, or gardener: all have been trained to fight. I have never held a sword other than as an object of curiosity. Please, Elladan." Elladan said reluctantly, "Very well. I will train you in the barest rudiments of swordplay. Every fiber of my being says that it is an abomination for you to do this, but…you are one of the truest friends I have, and I cannot deny you." Having made his decision, Elladan became brisk and purposeful. "Now first, we need to find you a –" Lindir spun, graceful, almost dancing, and dropped to the floor by his bed. He scooted underneath for a few inches and then scrabbled backward, jumping lightly to his feet and grinning like an excited elfling. In his hands was a rusty training sword, dull of edge and plain hilted. He presented it on his palms to Elladan. "I am ready!" Elladan threw back his head and laughed, looking much more like his normal self. "How long have you kept that disgusting thing under there?" "Seven yen." Elladan looked appalled. "So long?" He stared at Lindir, his smile fading. Then he nodded abruptly. He finally understood, not only the strength of Lindir's desire, but the blindness of all those who worshiped at the shrine of his exquisite talent. "Then we should delay no further. Here—give me your hand again. Now, you wrap your fingers around like this, and your thumb goes like so…" Lindir's gazed at his hand on the hilt, the lines of hand and sword blurring as his eyes stung. "Thank you, my friend." Glorfindel and Erestor Glorfindel and Erestor sat across a chess board from each other. Though both were very busy with their respective duties, they tried to play together at least once a month. They took turns playing in each other's chambers, and tonight they were in Erestor's rooms. It was hard to imagine two friends more different from each other. The way they played chess demonstrated these differences very well. Sun-kissed Glorfindel played with dash, instinct, and the raw power of his considerable intellect. His beautiful hands gestured flamboyantly and his 'captures' were performed with zest. Erestor, dark-haired and pale, played a canny game of strategy that included much misdirection. His hands flowed gracefully, the motions controlled and precise. Even after an Age as friend to Glorfindel, he could still sometimes feint the reborn warrior into venturing forth too boldly. Erestor, on the other hand, was still occasionally caught napping by brilliant, unconventional tactics played at lightning speed. Though Erestor was somewhat the better player, Glorfindel made him fight hard for his victories. And when Glorfindel won, Erestor was pleased for him and was generous with his compliments. On this fine spring evening they played with Erestor's finest chess set. It was one he reserved to use when playing with his dearest friend or Elrond. Made of enameled pewter and inset with gemstones, the pieces were between three and six inches tall, and were so delicately made that Erestor had despaired of their surviving the rearing of Elrond's children. As it turned out, both the twins and Arwen grew to their majorities without causing a single scratch. It was a human foster child that left a castle without its pennons. Glorfindel thrust another pawn into jeopardy. His laughing eyes met Erestor's, sure he would snort at the foolish move, but the councilor simply made his return move without a sign that he deplored his opponent's rashness. Glorfindel asked with concern, "Is there something wrong? We do not have to play tonight." Erestor did not lift his eyes from the board. "Wrong? What could be wrong?" He lifted one hand from his lap and picked up one of his knights. His fingers curled around it, feeling the spikiness of the horse and rider. "I only returned from patrolling the far reaches two days ago. I have heard the most important news, of course, but am hardly caught up on everything that has been happening. So out with it." "There is nothing." The hand tightened on the knight just a little. "We had another boring conference with some men from the villages. Elrond chose to interpret their increasing restiveness differently than I do, but we often have differing opinions. One assumes that is part of my importance to him." A thumb and forefinger extended themselves from the curled grip and delicately grasped the emerald plume on the knight's helmet. "Elrond did not heed you? I can see how that would be annoying, but it is hardly unprecedented." "No, he did not!" The plume bent slightly, then snapped. "Erestor! What on Arda –" "It is nothing. Nothing at all, Glorfindel! The fact that I sometimes find our liege difficult is nothing new. After all, I am only the finest researcher in Middle-earth! We would not want to confuse his high-flying notions with FACTS, now would we! Far be it from me to be a voice of reason and restraint! He is demanding, arrogant, stubborn, temperamental –" As the list went on, Erestor's voice rose in pitch, volume, and hyperbole. " – impossible to reason with! Crazy as a skitter beetle! A first class bastard! –" Glorfindel attempted to look sympathetic, but it was difficult with short snorts of laughter escaping with each new insult. At the last item on the list he tried to gain some self-control and chided his friend. "Oh, now, I hardly think – Elrond is part human, but he was not born the wrong side of the blanket!" Erestor gave the warrior a look that could melt a sword blade. He stepped over to his bookshelves—which also contained many decorative items—and started his list of epithets over again. This time he emphasized each one by hurling a small object across the room. Glorfindel, normally the sort to look on such a display with unfeigned delight, suddenly remembered whose rooms they were in. "Erestor! NO!" He sprang across the room and caught, on the fly, a small silver sculpture made by Celebrimbor himself. The next half an hour gave Glorfindel quite a nice bit of exercise. He danced around the room, ducking beneath or leaping over furniture, as he tried to save the priceless artifacts that Erestor surrounded himself with. When he could, he yanked one object from the mad elf's hand only to calmly replace it with another, less valuable item. When he was not able to find a replacement in time, he had to intercept the artworks in the air. Still, Glorfindel being Glorfindel, he did not actually try to stop Erestor. Finally the councilor's suppressed frustration was exhausted and he stood absolutely still, gazing around his sitting room. Which looked as though a few hundred yrch had attacked it en masse. Glass shards, wood splinters, and metal chunks lay on every available surface. A picture frame hung drunkenly over a broken chair back. Several pointed objects were embedded in the walls like arrows. Glorfindel gave him an 'E' for effort, even if some of the larger pieces of furniture were still usable. He looked around with the eye of a connoisseur and whistled softly. "Not bad for a beginner." "Yes. Well." Erestor was completely at a loss. He looked at the row of precious things Glorfindel had lined up against the wall, well behind the 'launch area'. He paled as he realized what he might have done. He vaguely remembered Glorfindel removing a Second Age decanter from his hand and replacing it with a modern wine goblet. He turned his gaze to Glorfindel and said very seriously, "You are a good friend." Glorfindel smirked but asked, "Are you feeling better now?" Erestor was suddenly swept by exhaustion. "Could we speak of it tomorrow? I am…I do not know what I am, at the moment, except ashamed." "Never mind me, you need to speak to Elrond." "I have spoken to him. And this is the result…" He gestured to indicate the devastation around them. Glorfindel stood directly before the councilor and fixed him with a weighty glare. "You. Will. Speak. To. Elrond. Not about politics, or the rust that threatens the wheat! You will talk with him about the pressures you have been under, and how the two of you can resolve the situation. He is not only your lord, but your friend. Promise me you will talk to him." Erestor said with great dignity, "I have a headache." Glorfindel growled, low and menacing. "Promise me." "Oh, very well! I promise. Satisfied?" Glorfindel nodded and quietly left, pulling the door shut behind him. Erestor slowly rotated and took in the wreckage in its entirety. He nearly whimpered. It would be long before he could seek his bed this night. Suddenly the door opened again, hitting the wall lightly and bouncing off. In the opening stood a smiling Balrog Slayer who carried two brooms and a pan to catch the debris. He handed one broom to Erestor, and then began to sweep briskly with his own. Erestor said fervently, "You are a very good friend, Glorfindel." Aragorn and Legolas Aragorn finished his meal and let his eyes travel one more time over the place—one of honor, next to Elrond—that should have been occupied by his friend, the Prince of Mirkwood. The elf was not, as some who knew him well might guess, in the healing wing, nor was he eating in his chambers. Aragorn sighed, staring at his plate. He did not want to have to search for the elf tonight; did not want to have the conversation they would be having. He sighed again and scraped his chair back. He nodded gracious thanks to the servers that silently attended the High Table, walked from the Hall, and eventually out into the grey twilight that had encompassed the valley. Aragorn and Legolas had spent little time together in the last ten years. Legolas had spent a few months with the rangers and Aragorn had made a side trip to Mirkwood when he and his men swept around through Arnor and then up and over to the Grey Mountains. Their earlier years of adventuring together now seemed a happy dream, one that in fond retrospect seemed all camaraderie and camp fires and laughing escape from danger. The present was darker for both of them. Aragorn was now engaged in fully coming into his heritage. His foster father had recently told him the time would be soon. For what, Elrond did not so clearly state, but anticipation was a constant frisson running along Aragorn's nerves. For decades he had told himself that 'it' was in the future. The far future. He now felt his destiny directly before him and suddenly felt a desire, not to push it away, but rather to embrace it. Since the night was so warm and he did not anticipate going far from the house, Aragorn did not arm himself with anything other than the knives in boot and belt that he always wore. His midnight blue tunic and leggings, both in a soft, dull material with only self-embroidery for decoration, made him one with the shadows once he left the courtyard of the house. He strode along, watching the branches above the paths he chose, for the elf usually took to the trees when troubled. Did he know his behavior was so predictable? Did he want to be found? It was an hour before Aragorn's keen eyes detected, not a body, but the slightest deepening of shadow in a large beech tree that grew beside the river. He stood on the ground looking up and said in a soft voice that nonetheless was easily heard by elven ears, "I know you are there. Will you come down, or must I go up?" He heard rather than saw the elf clamber down, jumping lightly the last ten feet. Legolas started walking along the river bank, hands swiping at the tall grass heads. Aragorn moved up next to him, and they traveled on together for some distance before Aragorn spoke. At first it seemed Legolas would not answer, but after a vicious swipe at an innocent firefly he said in a whisper, "Two days." Aragorn's voice rose a little in spite of his determination to remain calm. "That soon? Were you going to say good-bye at all, or would I just find your room empty and your horse gone?" "Why do you do this? I am the Prince of Mirkwood, and you are Chieftain of the Dunedain. We take these little interludes of peace here in your home as we can, and then we return to our responsibilities." "But each time it is harder for you to leave. It is not so with me. When I am rested, I am eager to return, but your spirit is more shadowed with every farewell. "As long as I have known you, you have had nightmares. Do you remember how you used to climb into my lap and hold on like a limpet when you were small?" Aragorn said softly, "I remember." He then chuckled a little. "If you were in Imladris, you were the one I went to when I had bad dreams. Elladan was quite jealous for a time." He watched Legolas carefully, knowing the subject change was just the elven way of coming at a subject obliquely. "Are you having nightmares, Legolas?" "No. Just the opposite. When I am in Mirkwood, I dream of Imladris and those I care for here. It is when I awake that I am engulfed in nightmare. Aragorn! My home is named Mirk Wood! It was once Greenwood the Great! I cannot….I…" He heaved a great breath and then whispered. "I do not want to go home. Do you understand now? I do not want to go home." "Legolas, anyone would be –" The elf broke in bitterly, "I am not anyone. I am the son of the king. Mirkwood is more than where I live—it is my kingdom. Mine to cherish, mine to protect. My people! And I hide out here, in peace and comfort. My father has never been pleased that I come here so often, or that I stay so long. Now I begin to understand why." "Peace and comfort? Does your memory not go beyond last week? What about the cave?" "That is beside the –" "And the trolls?" Aragorn mused thoughtfully. "Twice. There were trolls twice." "But –" "What about Haradwaith? What a time we had getting out of there alive!" "Aragorn, I do not see what this has to do with –" "Or that time you were caught by slavers?" "That was not very enjoyable, but –" Aragorn took is friend by both shoulders and looked him directly in the eye. "Surely you have enjoyed the well deserved interludes of peace and rest you have found here. But most of our association has involved danger every bit as harrowing as anything that you will find at home. We have not been fighting pretend enemies or playing elves-and-orcs all this while. The fight is the same, regardless of where the field of combat may be. Not only that, but our time together has been necessary. We have needed to fight, plan, eat, sleep, and be wounded—together!" "What are you saying? Be plain with me." "That is amusing coming from you! Very well, then. You have felt for some time that the Enemy moves, pressing Mirkwood harder as each year passes. This is true, but not only for Mirkwood. The time we have waited for is coming, Legolas. Not fifty, thirty, or even ten years from now. Soon! Adar is so abstracted that one can hardly hold a conversation with him. He has not smiled in months. Surely you have noticed his gravity. He does not tell me details, but I can tell—I can feel it, like a bowstring strung too tightly." Legolas said tightly, "I too, have felt it! Like a lute string—so taut I am about to snap. I had thought it was just me; that I feel so because I cravenly do not want to return…" "It is not just you. And if I ever hear you couple yourself and the word 'craven' again, I will not be held accountable for the consequences! You are the most courageous person I know." Legolas flushed and brushed the approbation away. "Do not speak foolishness. Why do you say our time roving together was necessary?" "You and I, together, have been forged by the Valar into a weapon stronger than each of us alone. When the time comes, we must be together." "When what time comes?" Aragorn balled his fists in frustration. "I do not know, but I think it will be obvious to us all when it arrives. Legolas, you must return home for this while. But be ready! If any dispatch comes from Imladris for any reason, be sure you are sent as the representative for Mirkwood. If any errand occurs in your home to bring an elf from Mirkwood to Imladris, be certain it is you who is chosen to come." Legolas looked solemnly at his friend. "I will, if you believe it so important. You think it will begin here, then? But how? How will you become – " He broke off and glanced around. Though he knew Aragorn's destiny, he never spoke of it aloud as such things can fly upon the wind itself to dangerous ears. "- how will all of that begin in Imladris?" "I know no more than you how it will begin, but I will tell you this: I mean to stay much closer to home these next months. Gandalf has suggested I make a commemorative journey to Fornost, with Glorfindel." Legolas said thoughtfully, "That takes you along the Great Eastern Road and close to the Shire. But what evil could come from that direction? What did he say?" Aragorn shrugged. "You know him; he prompts more questions than he provides answers." Legolas drew a deep breath and his shoulders squared a little. "So. Something—we do not know what—will happen. It will be soon—but we do not know exactly when. And I am to be ready to fly my home at the slightest word, and to put my trust in an impetuous, headstrong human." "Exactly so!" Legolas laughed and suddenly the weight of sorrow and foreboding he had been carrying fell from him as he gazed at this man that he so loved and trusted. He suddenly felt full of energy and hope. Estel. It always came down to that, in the end. His hope, and the hope of Mirkwood, stood before him in the shape of a tall ranger of the north. He threw his arms around Aragorn and enclosed him in the sort of exuberant hug that came more commonly from the man than his elven friend. "Very well, Estel! I will abide your word, as I always do. In two days time I return home, but this time I go with a lighter heart. I will see you again soon, and together we will end the reign of darkness in our world." He released Aragorn as swiftly as he had embraced him and suddenly began to strip off his clothing. Aragorn stared as the elf, now bare and shining in the moonlight, ran for the river's edge. "What – You complete lunatic! The water is freezing! It will not be warm enough to swim in for weeks!" Poised to spring into the current, the elf looked back and the joy on his face took Aragorn's breath away. He had not even realized that his friend had not looked so happy for a very long time. Once again their roles were reversed as Legolas cajoled in a sweet, singing lilt. "Come with me! We will only go in for a few minutes! Come on! You love to swim under the moon!" Grimacing as if he already felt the icy water, Aragorn pulled off his boots and leggings. "Gandalf will not be pleased if he shows up to send me forth to my destiny, and finds I have died of consumption of the lungs!" Legolas laughed but waited no longer and dived into the river. The elf surfaced several feet out and shook his head, spluttering and gasping. "It is a little cold, perhaps!" An hour later an elf hoisted and dragged a man into the man's rooms by way of the balcony. The man, normally quite agile, was shaking too hard to be of much help. The elf got him into a chair, started the fire in the hearth, and ran for blankets and brandy. When he returned he felt a little trepidation since the man's complexion was white as milk, his lips were blue, and his teeth were chattering. He wrapped the man in several wool layers and asked if he could do anything for his friend. "C-c-c-come c-c-c-closer." The elf bent down in concern. A hand flashed from under the blankets and grabbed and twisted a sensitive ear tip, pulling the fair face down so that worried blue met blazing silver. "If I die I will haunt you. That is a promise. With blood curdling shrieks and water-logged gurglings. As long as you live—and I will petition Namo personally on your behalf, so that you live a long, long time—you will never, ever have a peaceful night!" "I am sorry, Estel! I had forgotten it would affect you so. I am truly sorry. Please let go of my ear!" The elf winced but did not pull away. He felt he deserved the pain. Aragorn released him and huddled into the blankets. In spite of his gloomy grumblings, in a surprisingly short time the combination of fire, blankets, and brandy brought the ranger back to the point where he thought it possible he might live. One at a time the blankets came off, until at last he was relaxed, warm, and forgiving. They conversed quietly until Legolas smiled at a jaw-cracking yawn. "It is past time I left you to your rest. May I say once more, that I am sorry? Especially after you had helped me, once again, to come to terms with my doubts." "I am sorry I did not understand how heavily such thoughts weighed upon you. Your visit is almost over, and you have not been refreshed as well as you should have been." "I was ashamed to admit I did not want to go home. I did not want to darken your fleeting time with your family." "How long have we been friends? And how many times have I had to drag your troubles out of you, piecemeal? You should know by now that I always find out eventually." "Some day I shall surprise you by saying, 'Good morning, Estel! Would you pass the plum preserves, please? And by-the-by, I am terribly depressed because…'" "Ah, yes! That will be the same morning Sauron gives over wanting to rule Arda, and takes up knitting sweaters for indigent hobbits!" Legolas laughed but then looked down at his hands. When Aragorn asked, "Legolas?" he looked up, his eyes intent and somber. "Estel….." He tried again. "Estel….I…I have not the words to tell you….what knowing you has meant to me…how often you have helped me beyond simply keeping life in my body." Aragorn smiled the smile that only his family and Legolas ever saw. The one free of a shadow of wryness, or any hint of reservation. The one that was open and unguarded and spoke of heart's warmth, freely given. "I thought we stopped keeping score decades ago. Sometimes I save you, and sometimes you save me. There is no limit on numbers, and no scale that must be balanced. Between kin there can be no tally kept, and you are the brother of my heart." "As you are mine, Aragorn." The moon began to sink in the west as friends bid each other good-night. Some of the friendships were newly made; green and tender yet, requiring care and time to flourish. Others were well-worn and comfortable as old clothes, needing few words spoken where all was long understood. Others were old—yet newly appreciated—as boundaries shifted and desires long held were expressed to perhaps the only one who might be able to accept freely. Warmth had been shared this night, comfort had been given. The peace that pervaded the valley was due in part to the skill of its leaders, and in part to its hidden location. But perhaps some of its abiding serenity was due to the quiet, kindly bonds of friendship.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3092189/1/One-Evening-in-Imladris	<urn:uuid:89ae7280-3888-473e-9b0e-15e5fec0afbf>	en	0.983074	0.031028
CW—Chapter 9 Dean sat flipping through the journal, but Sam could tell he wasn't really reading anything. Sam had spent the better part of an hour trying to not be obvious about the fact he'd been watching Dean. His brother's face was that passive, neutral expression that made Sam think Dean was absorbed in some inner conversation with himself. He was sitting on the bed, seeming relaxed, but the tension that hung in the air Sam could part with his fingers. He didn't have to guess much to know what Dean was contemplating or why there was the tension. "I'm sorry." The words blurted out of Sam's mouth before he thought much about them. Dean glanced up, genuine surprise and curiosity on his face. "About what?" "That I didn't tell you. That it even happened…that I'm—" Bristling and sitting straighter Dean's face turned to anger. Pointing at Sam he snapped out, "If you say because you're half demon I'm beating the crap out of you right here and now." Sam shut his mouth and stared at the end of his bed. "Why didn't you just tell me, Sammy?" Shrugging, Sam had no ready answer for that one, and about a dozen reasons lined up in his head. None of them really explained anything. The truth was there was one and only one reason. "I was…I didn't know…it scared me." "I traded my soul for your life, Sam. I've put you above everyone and everything. Maybe you could have given the guy who raised you and knows you better than anyone a tiny, little bit of credit?" Okay, now didn't that just bite? "Don't you get it by now there are some things I just don't give up on? I'll never give up on?" Dean asked quietly. Sam nodded. In retrospect his fears and keeping what he knew from Dean seemed stupid. It had certainly been unnecessary and caused him much unneeded grief and sleepless nights. "Is there anything else, Sam?" Picking at the sheet Sam shook his head, "I don't think so." Dean laughed at that. "I've sort of lost track myself." His voice and face softened. "I'm not giving up, Sam. Not ever, for any reason. I don't care what you think was done, or how bad it is. You're the only brother I've got and I'm not giving up. That's a promise." Sam swallowed around the lump in his throat. He didn't know what to say, or even if there was anything to say. It didn't matter; speaking wasn't going to happen for a few minutes. "I found something." Dean held the Colt's journal up facing out so Sam could see what was on the page Dean had opened it to. He had to blink a few times to clear his vision while his eyes skimmed the entry and his brain homed in on some key words. Lawrence, Kansas, John, Mary. Sam sucked in a breath and looked up, meeting Dean's clear, steady eyes. "I don't know if I want…if I can…" "I don't know if I can't," Dean said softly and set the book down on his bed beside his leg. Sam's eyes followed the movement then went back to Dean's face. This time his brother's expression was open and readable. Dean wanted to know, he wanted to see his parents and know what brought them together with Jake and Ben Colt. Dean wanted it very much, but he'd give it up for Sam. Yet another thing in their lives Dean would give up for Sam, do it willingly and without regret or malice. Not this time. Not anymore. Sam leaned over, fingers brushing over the old, worn leather for a few seconds before he took firm hold of the book, leaned back against the headboard and opened it to the page Dean had shown him. "I think we can." He watched Dean rustle around for a few minutes, getting more comfortable. "Dude! Why don't you just stand up, turn around three times and make a nest?" Dean tossed a pillow at him, which Sam caught and chucked right back. "I'm comfy now." Snorting, Sam cleared his throat, took a swig of water, propped the journal on his bent knees and began to read. July 1, 1977 Lawrence, Kansas "I'm getting too old for this crap." Jake mumbled for the third time and shoved against the car door, one hand inside turning the not so agreeable steering wheel. "She's definitely getting too old for this. Will you put your back into it?" The final words were snapped at Ben. Huffing, Ben ignored Jake's sour mood. He wasn't in such dandy spirits himself and if he didn't keep his mouth shut the two of them were going to end up yelling at one another. It wasn't his fault the car had broken down and it wasn't his fault it was so damn old getting parts took some sort of act of Congress, God being their second choice. Jake stopped long enough to wipe one arm across his forehead. Of course when he stopped, the car stopped and Ben tripped up the back end, sprawled over it for a few seconds before nearly ending up on his butt. Ben barked out a, "Hey!" when Jake turned to him, Ben silently chastised himself for not engaging brain before mouth. "It's not my fault." "I know," Jake said softly and settled on the running board. "This is one heavy-ass car." Straightening, Ben leaned back, then stretched side to side. "Sit tight, I have an idea." "Where are you—?" "Just give me a minute, I'll be right back." Ben called over his shoulder as he jogged down the street. The back of the repair shop Ben spotted was open, a fan in one end blowing warm air through the large, damp space inside. "Hey. Hello? Anyone home?" Please let there be someone here before I have a damn heart attack pushing that car. "Can I help you?" A kid, maybe twenty to twenty-five appeared from under one of the newer, smaller, more gas efficient cars. He wiped his hands on a rag that didn't do much other than move the grease around his hands and smiled at Ben. "Yeah, I hope so. I've got a car…" The kid glanced around at the garage full of cars in various states of repair, "Me too." Sighing, Ben pinched the bridge of his nose between thumb and forefinger, why did everyone feel the need to drench him in sarcasm? "I have this car…it's the size of a very large Sherman tank and weighs about three times as much." The kid nodded, "We should probably use the flatbed then." A few minutes later Ben was climbing into the passenger side of the flatbed truck. "I should probably warn you, it's my brother's car and I think he believes he gave birth to it." Suddenly the kid brightened, huge grin splitting all over his face. "She must be a great car!" Before the truck even pulled up next to the Chevy Master and the kid beside him exhaled a sharp, "Schweet car!" Ben knew he'd become invisible and marveled once again at how the generation gap snapped shut when two guys found common ground in an old car. Ben managed to coax Jake out of the repair shop and head to a nearby diner telling Jake he needed to let the kid work on their car in peace. "We'll find the money, we always do." Ben said between bites of BLT. "We're all too old for this." Jake mumbled. "Speak for yourself." Ben grinned and poked Jake's shin with his toe. "Naw, seriously, Benny. We follow the trail and it dies. Every time it's getting harder and harder to pick up on Yellow-Eyes. You want to be doing this when you're seventy? Because I sure don't. We have to find it. We have to stop it and I'd sure like to do that before I die." "You're nowhere near dying," Ben said quietly. Jake's eyes softened, "I know. You know what I mean." "Look, we did everything we could and we've done a lot of good things along the way. Maybe it's time we just let it go. There're others, Singer, others we've met who are far more spry than we are and with more ambition. Let them have a crack at it too. Our turn is over." Jake shrugged, threw down some money on the table and nodded. "Let's go check out the car." The kid—Ben made a mental note to ask his name—was sitting at a dirty desk, writing on a piece of paper when they got back to the garage. He looked up and smiled at them with kind, dark eyes. "I have a quote for you. It'll take a few days to order parts, some aren't easy to come by." Ben peered over Jake's shoulder at the paper the kid handed him. Jake's hand shook and Ben saw how his face fell. Hand on Jake's shoulder, it suddenly hit Ben hard, this was their home and it might have to be left behind. "Would we be able to store it here for a bit? That's a lot of money for us right now." "Yeah, I figured it was. I'd be happy to look after her for a bit for you." "I brought you some lunch, John." A female voice ended in a sharp gasp, "Schweet car!" Ben's chin dropped to his chest, it was some sort of gathering, had to be. Ben turned to see a girl, about the same age as the mechanic kid. She had long blond hair and fair features which contrasted sharply with his darker hair. "We're going to store her here for a bit," John said. "Oh, cool." She handed a bag to John without taking her eyes off the car, pacing around it and peering in the windows. Stopping near the rear passenger window, she arched one eyebrow. "Are you a photographer?" "I am," Ben said. "We're getting married in a few days and no one to take pictures. July fourth weekend is popular I guess and we didn't book anyone in time." Ben nudged Jake's arm, they looked at one another. Jake grinned suddenly. "Don't suppose you'd trade some wedding shots for some car repairs?" The girl looked over at her fiancé. John nodded, "I think we could work something out. You get your car fixed, Mary and I get some pictures." "Schweet." Ben shook John's hand. Not only were they keeping their car, they'd get to go to the wedding of a couple of sweet kids by the name of John and Mary. John slid his arm around Mary's waist, smiling down at her before giving her a kiss and then nodded to one of the offices. "I'm going to take my lunch in the back." She gently caressed his arm, a look of unspoken understanding and excitement passing between them at their good fortune, before he took his leave. "I'll be right there," she replied. John raised a hand to both Ben and Jake. "Call the shop when you find a place to stay, I'll keep you updated on the progress." Mary watched her fiancé duck back into his office and then turned back to the two of them, crossing her arms and hitching a hip up against the desk John had been sitting at before. "You two hungry?" she asked. "Just ate, ma'am," Ben nodded toward the direction of the diner. "Sounds like you need a place to stay," she said, looking once again to the car. "Been on the road long?" Jake straightened his hat and went to the trunk to get their bags. "You could say that," he snorted as he ducked beneath the trunk lid. Ben gave her a quick, apologetic look and shrugged. "A while." Mary's eyes continued to gloss over the car, eyes narrowing a little in thought, head tilting in curiosity, especially when Jake hauled out two bags, talismans hanging from the leather straps. Her lips thinned, the smile there waned into a sadness Ben couldn't place…until he saw her run a hand though her hair, tucking a wayward blond strand behind her ear, the charm bracelet visible against her slender wrist. Sigils and talismans and marks of protection clanked together along the circlet. Nothing you could find in some common jewelry shop either. Iron and silver, brass and tiger's eye, all the charm shapes wards against the supernatural. The tools of a hunter. "Nice talisman," she said, nodding to Jake's bag, subtly calling him and Ben out. "You have been on the road a long time." Ben tipped his chin toward her wrist. "Been hunting a long time," he said. "You ever hunt, Miss—?" "Campbell," she said, sad smile reflecting now in her big eyes. "And…yes. Not anymore. Not now." The nervous way she looked back to John's office made Ben understand to some degree the reason her arms had come to cross over her chest, her demeanor becoming more guarded. "Did you…" she pushed away from the desk, "ever meet Samuel or Deanna Campbell?" Her voice shimmered a bit as though she was both scared and hopeful. Jake had returned to stand beside Ben and shook his head. "No. Like to keep it just the two of us," he said. "Tried to steer clear of other company, 'less we need the help. Family?" She huffed, shaking her head. "Parents. And your philosophy sounds almost exactly like my father's." For a moment her smile returned full before she looked away, eyes glistening. "They're dead. And I'm done." "I'm sorry," Ben replied. "I have John," she said, voice stronger, but the slight bob of her throat gave away her pain. "I'm gonna have a family someday and they'll know nothing of that life or of what's out there…" Her eyes locked with Ben's then moved to Jake's. "And people like you two make that possible. You make this world safer. No one really knows what sacrifices are being made…but I do. Thank you." Ben looked over at his brother and saw the tiredness seem to ebb from his eyes in that moment. And then, suddenly, like they'd been talking about the weather or the latest ballgame, Mary's face brightened as she shrugged, the pain brushed from the soft lines of her face, returning the youthful features. "If you go down Banker Street toward the north of town, there's an Inn, friend of mine works there." She looked one last time at the camera in the backseat, grinning. "Tell June, Mary sent you. She'll be able to help you out. And thanks for doing this; you don't know how much this means to John and me." Ben watched her leave to join her fiancé, only able to shake the sadness he felt for her with the hope of what she had spoken. She had made a choice. One Ben never made. This life was for the called and he understood the need to get out. It was just never in him to leave. It was never in either of them, Jake or him. When their time was up, when it was time to lay down arms, they would know. Now wasn't that time. Ben shook his head. "I wish them luck." Jake was silent a moment, then re-shouldered his bag. Ben noticed that he'd stubbornly chosen the heavier one. "Me too. Now let's go before I fall over." Another 'I'm too old for this crap' fell from his lips as he turned and headed for the Inn, Ben following, shaking his head. Three days later the Chevy was working like she was brand new. They had their 'home' back and they got to go to the wedding of a couple of sweet kids by the name of John and Mary. Those were the last words written in the journal. There were no more entries after, just empty, blank and worn pages that Dean trailed his thumb over, muscles working against the tightness of his own throat. To be that close to them, to his mother and father, to see the lives they were trying to make for themselves, to hear the way his mother thought about their future, a family that would never touch the life of the supernatural…his gut tightened and an ache built. The anger he'd felt toward her began to abate toward sadness, then churn sickeningly into a fated hopelessness. He been livid at his father for the deal he'd made to save Dean's life, and had then turned around and done the very same thing to save Sam's. He would do it again in a heartbeat, and that was why this hurt so damn bad. Their mother, even if it had been unwittingly, had given up the one person Dean had given his soul for. Sam was carrying the burden of the blood in his veins, the curse he owned no matter what Dean said, and in that moment of learning that he had followed in his family's footsteps, Dean felt hollowed out. His whole life he'd pictured his mother a certain way. The faded photographs and the even more faded memories of a four-year-old were all he'd had to hold onto. And from them he'd resurrected some semblance of an idea of what she'd been like and who she was… And in these two days that image had been torn apart… He knew what it was like to hold the body of someone you loved, to give up your soul for them; and it was the only way he'd seen at that moment to save Sam. There'd been no other choice, no other way after he'd carried around the months of pain from hurting Sam and from being torn open by his father. The frustration of being choice-less, that mark, he now felt deeply embedded in their family line. He knew his mother's pain and at the same time that did little to calm the sting of choices the she'd made. I'm here, Sam. So are you. We got nothing but each other and whatever we have to do to deal with this thing, all this crap, we will. We'll do it together. "She was beautiful." Sam's voice was tired, weighted. "They looked…happy." She sold me out. She didn't even know me. "She had no idea what she gave up when she made that deal." Dean cleared his throat, the sting lessoning, loosening the stiff muscles. "God, she was a hunter…" He breathed in disbelief, still struggling to wrap his head around that one. It gave a whole new meaning to 'the family business'. "She thought she could escape. She wanted whatever family she had as far away from this life as possible. She wanted us to live lives we never got to live…She had no idea…" Dean's eyes settled on Sam's, which were unsuccessfully trying to hide beneath his bangs. "I know…" "But I did…" Dean rubbed at his lips, letting that roll over him and through him. Sam lifted his head, eyes deepening with understanding. I did… "I wasn't going to let go, Sam. Not of you. She had no idea what she gave up, but I knew exactly what was worth my soul." The ghost of a smile pulled at the corner of Sam's mouth, his eyes glassing over. He nodded slowly, pulling his knees up into his chest. "You woke up, Sam. I came back from Hell. And our supposed family curse…I don't believe in it. Only real curse is that you're stuck with me, Sammy," Dean smirked. Sam huffed out a short laugh, shaking his head. "Goes both ways, Dean." Dean nodded. "Damn straight." We're going to be okay, Sammy. Sam relaxed a little, releasing a shaky breath and taking in a stronger one, as though he had overheard Dean's thoughts and was in agreement. Dean felt the tension inside himself, the coiled ache in his gut lessen. After bringing Sam back last night he'd tried to deal with the anger at the truth inside himself knowing the last thing Sam needed was for him to fall apart. But it was lessening in the wake of knowing that through all of this—through all the demons and deals, through all the trade-offs and trials—they were still there. He still had his brother. There was a moment of silence between them, before Sam laughed a little into his knees, causing Dean to lift his eyes from the journal and arch a brow. "What?" Dean inquired. "So, you're named after our grandma," Sam snickered. "Deanna." Dean threw his pillow at Sam, the journal slipping from his lap and landing on the spine, opening on the floor. "You're lucky I've got a bad leg." He'd damn near killed himself on it last night. Though, if Sam tried anything again, he'd damn-well make that leg work. "Dean…" Sam said, eyes now fastened to the floor and the open journal. There was a photo sticking out between the pages. It was of their parents. On their wedding day… Sam reached down and picked it up, and Dean watched his throat move in a bout of emotion. "I looked through that thing…cover to cover…" Sam breathed. "But we never saw the last entry either," Dean reminded him. "I want to meet them," Sam replied quietly. "Who? Mom and Dad when they were that age? We kinda just…" "No," Sam shook his head, setting the picture down on the bed-stand as though he was afraid it would crumble to dust in his hands. "Jake and Ben." "Bobby, hey, it's me," Sam held his cell in the crook of his neck, while he stuffed more of his clothes and Dean's into a duffel, not paying attention to whose was whose. They'd sort it out on their own when they got to Ohio, or when Dean found himself swimming in the wrong shirt. "Dean's doing better, and I got some rest. We're heading to Ohio. I know you're coming out to meet us now, but head for Cleveland, okay? Call me when you get this, I'll tell you where we're staying." Sam snapped the phone shut and tossed the duffel to the door before knocking on the bathroom door. "You're not trying to look better for your prom date. We're just going to find two dudes, Dean." He heard the shower curtain shink against the metal rod as it was ripped back violently. "Be nice to the damn cripple," Dean bellowed, and something that sounded like a wadded up towel thunked against the door. Sam laughed, the sound only slightly gravely, his lungs getting stronger after a night of sleep. "Hurry up, or no coffee." The threat was met with unintelligible mutterings behind the door. The box Dean had purchased at the yard sale sat on Sam's lap, his arms hung over the corners, hands dangling loosely as he watched the scenery roll by. Every time Dean glanced over at him, Sam met his sometimes concerned, often questioning expression with a small, soft smile, the one reserved for big brothers only. The fact Sam didn't ignore him surprised him, Sam thought. He fingered the items, picking one up, staring blankly at it then putting it back. He'd been doing that for the past half hour and he knew Dean's worry was ramping up bit by bit with each passing mile. Focusing more on the contents of the box and less on his brother, Sam picked up a newspaper clipping of a weather report, the city and date caught his eye. Lawrence, Kansas, May 1, 1983. A place he had connection to and history in, yet other than brief trips through a few years ago, no memory of. "You want some more coffee?" Ben swung off the picnic table bench, stood and stretched. "No." Jake sat hunched over the table, papers and maps sprawled in front of him, he'd barely glance up when Ben spoke. "Hey, take a break for five minutes." Straightening and leaning back a bit, Jake surveyed the small park surrounding the table. A group of three or four small children and two women were nearby enjoying the day and taking advantage of the swing set. "How are we going to find a six month old baby, the right six month old baby in this city? How many women do you suppose are pregnant right now?" "Well, the kid has to be six months old before the end of this year, so, technically we only have to worry about the ones born before June first." The vile glare Jake aimed at him made Ben smirk and fake a cringe. His witty retort was cut off by a football hitting the table and bouncing through their papers making everything flutter and scatter. " 'm sorry." A small voice stopped them both from lunging and grabbing at the papers. "Can I have my ball back?" Large hazel-green eyes peered at them from under fair-haired bangs. Ben grinned at Jake's surprise when a small hand tugged on his sleeve. Blinking down at the kid Jake nodded and retrieved the wayward football. "Quite an arm you got on you there." The little boy, maybe four or five nodded and grinned brightly at them. "I'm so sorry." One of the women Ben had seen earlier near the swing set had both hands on the boy's shoulders now and was moving him away. "He didn't bother you did he?" "Na, we're just discussing his football career." Jake smiled and Ben saw the woman, probably thirty years younger than him nearly melt from Jake's charm. "Do I have to stay at your house all night?" The little boy cranked his neck backwards to look up at the woman. "Yes, you do. Your mom and dad will be gone for the whole night. But you know what, Dean? When you go home you'll be a big brother." Taking Dean's hand in one of hers and his football in the other the woman smiled at them then headed back to the group near the swing set. Dean turned around and waved at Jake, who waved back. "Well," Jake sighed, "We know who it's not." "That kid's not involved. He's obviously well over six months old." Ben snorted a laugh. "I'm going for more coffee." "You want to stop for coffee?" Sam jerked straighter and pulled his gaze from the box to Dean. "What?" "Coffee, want to take a break and get some coffee?" Dean's eyes narrowed when Sam let the piece of newsprint slip from his fingers and drop back into the box. "You okay?" "Ya-yeah, I'm fine." Dean guided the Impala to an off ramp. "Uh huh." They found a small diner off the highway and coffee turned into a lunch stop. Sam climbed out of the car, box tucked under one arm. "You bringing that in?" Sam nodded and fell into step beside his brother. Shrugging, Dean held the door open for him. "I thought you outgrew the security blanket thing a few years ago." There was a sign reading Please Seat Yourself, so Sam flipped Dean off and headed for the first vacant table. He slipped into a chair and set the box carefully on the chair next to him as Dean settled across the table and snatched up a menu. Rummaging through the box, he glanced up when Dean poked his forearm with the corner of one of the menus. "Just order me something. You should know what I like by now." Dean quirked an eyebrow at him, shrugged and went back to reading his menu. "What was the name of the uncle who paid for Mom's grave?" Dropping the menu far enough to look over its top edge at Sam, Dean blinked at him. "I dunno. Dad just said an uncle. It's not like I could ever question him on details about…well anything, but particularly that. Why?" Sam extracted a small slip of paper from the box and held it between two fingers, turned so Dean could see. Swallowing hard, his brother's face went blank as he reached across the table and took the scrap of paper from Sam. "You've got to be kidding." "How would they even know?" Sam took the paper back and returned it to the box. "Well, obviously they, or at least Jake did, if he paid for our mother's grave and headstone." "I wonder if we did meet them. We've met a lot of people, Dean." Dean shrugged, "Maybe, I think we'd remember. I'd definitely remember the car." "Jake, you do know Twinkies and DingDongs aren't a food group, right?" "And cheese curls are?" "Hey," Ben held up both hands in mock defense, "at least there's cheese in them." "You go right on believing that little brother." Jake was talking to him, but his attention was on something farther down the aisle of the small store they'd stopped off for some supplies. He grabbed another handful of Twinkies and tossed them into the cart Ben shoved along in front of him. Ben's eyes skipped to the far end of the aisle and landed on what must have caught Jake's interest. "Do you believe how late people let their kids wander around by themselves?" Jake mumbled. He headed for the next aisle over. "Maybe their parents are in the store too?" Ben followed behind Jake, once they were around the corner Jake stopped part of the way down the aisle, reaching up for a box of pasta but looking a few feet to his right at two little boys. "Then why are they price comparing?" "I don't know. I've never had kids, why do you ask me these things?" Tossing both hands in the air, Ben grabbed a few more things off the shelf and tossed them into the cart. Jake snorted but didn't answer. The smaller of the two boys walked in their direction, looking for something. He stopped when he nearly collided with Ben's legs and ran one hand through his hair. Peering up at Ben, then Jake he mumbled "'cuse me," and snatched a few cans of spaghetti before ducking away. "It's okay." Jake grinned down and Ben felt a stab of pain. His brother truly loved children and took any opportunity to interact with them. Which, Ben was sure was going to get the two of them arrested at some point. The boy's eyes skated to their cart. "Those are my brother's favorites, but we need to get other stuff instead." He pointed to the Twinkies. "I'm seven today." "Well, happy birthday." Jake grinned. The older of the two boys appeared behind his brother and slid one arm across his shoulders. Ben swallowed the lump in his throat down, remembering how many times his own big brother had performed that same maneuver on him. "C'mon, Sammy, we have everything." He nodded curtly to Jake and Ben before steering the younger boy away towards the cashier. As he was paying he glanced over, Jake's eyes met his for the briefest instant before he hustled his brother outside. Ben quietly followed Jake to pay for their own purchases. He couldn't help feeling an odd sense of déjà vu or whatever. Maybe it was the older of the two boys had the same coloring as his own brother, dark blond hair, greenish-hazel eyes, and though the kid couldn't have been more than eleven or twelve he sported a solid, athletic build. Somehow the idea he'd just seen in the man who was his brother and this boy he didn't even know two people cut from the same cloth. Grabbing one of the packs of Twinkies out of their bag, Ben sprinted out the door. "Hey! Kid!" When the two boys turned to him he threw the packet across the small parking lot. The younger of the two caught it, jumped up and down a few times and smiled brilliantly, his face breaking into dimples when he turned and offered it to the older boy. Ben was back inside the store before either child could return his gift. "You going to eat that?" Sam's arm got a rough poke with the blunt end of Dean's fork. "Huh?" His gaze slipped down, a plate of food sat in front of him and he hadn't even noticed it being set there. Or Dean ordering their meal for that matter. "Too much cold syrup, made me spacey." Sam answered Dean's question before it was asked. He was offered a dubious look, but his brother ate and didn't ask any more questions. Sam put the box in the back seat as they pulled out of the diner's parking lot and back onto the highway. Dean's sidelong glances in his direction didn't slow down one bit, however. When they pulled off to refill the tank a few hours later, Sam clicked on his small flashlight, twisted around and routed through the box some more, determined to find some clue as to what happened to Jake and Ben Colt. There was a small, folded piece of paper tucked into one pocket of the old camera bag, Sam freed it, unfolded it carefully and read. He felt more than a little guilty when Dean popped his head in the window to ask if Sam wanted anything from inside the station store and Dean found him sitting there, tears dripping down his cheeks. "Dude," Dean snapped, making Sam jump. "Do not try to tell me this is from too much cough medicine." "Can we…? Not here, please?" Dean leaned against the car but didn't get inside. "What has been with you today?" "What if they're dead?" Swallowing, Dean didn't answer. His lips pressed together in a fine line. Moving out of Sam's line of vision for a minute he heard the chink and clunk of the gas nozzle being removed from the car and replaced. Dean tapped the roof of the car a few times, letting him know he was heading inside to pay. Back out a few minutes later Dean slipped silently into the car. Driving a few miles down the road Dean pulled the car off in a small park. Shutting down the engine he glanced over at Sam expectantly. Sam handed him the paper. "It's dated two-thousand-three. I can't tell by the handwriting which one wrote it, but then this is thirty years after the journal ended," he said quietly. Dean took the offered paper and read it. Sam watched the emotions, all too familiar to them both, rolled over his brother's features. He knew rereading the letter was only going to make him feel worse, but Sam couldn't help himself. He wished he could figure out which of the brothers had written it. The handwriting was close to that of Jake's in the journal, but not the same. There had been a few things written by Ben and his handwriting had been very similar to his brother's. I've tried everything, tried calling in every favor I could think of, but nothing. After everything we've been through, it's not the kind of evil I ever thought one of us would die from. Bone cancer is insidious and I hate I can't do anything but watch my brother's life waste away. The doctors say a year, if we're really lucky. What I wouldn't do to stop it. I've even tried calling Yellow-eyes, I'd gladly give my own soul so stop this. But I guess Yellow-eyes has other things keeping him busy these days. He's not answering. Sam slid down until his head rested against the seat and wondered, yet again, what sort of place they'd find when they reached the address that was their destination. Ben pushed through the diner door, ducking the bell out of habit. He glanced around, there were a few empty tables, but he headed to the counter. Lunch was take-out today. "Hey there, it'll be up in a minute." The pretty blonde behind the register smiled at him and poured him some coffee, nodding to one of the stools at the counter. She retied her pony tail and moved closer to where Ben sat. "How's Jake today? He couldn't come with you?" Shrugging, Ben sipped his coffee. "We're heading out in a day or so. Going back to Ohio." "Leaving sunny Palo Alto for Ohio?" "Well, when you put it that way, Jess," Ben laughed. He sighed, "time to head home I think. What's new with you?" Jess leaned over the counter. "I met a boy." Nodding, "His name is Sam. He reminds me a lot of you actually. Our second date is tonight." Ben snorted, "That might not be such a good thing." He dropped the money on the counter for the bag of food one of the cooks brought out. "You know how to get a hold of me, if this Sam of yours misbehaves, I'll break his kneecaps." He tapped the counter as he stood up, grinning. "We're leaving tomorrow, we'll be sure to stop by." "You'd better," Jess called after him before turning to help other customers. Sam pushed himself straighter and took a look around. It was dark, there were a few stars out. He had the oddest sense of making this trip before, and dismissed it as imagination and lack of sleep. "You want me to drive for a while?" "Na. There's a motel coming up. Let's just crash there for the night." Dean's quiet, firm tone left no room for dispute. Sam had been off the entire day and he knew his brother was worried. While Sam gathered their things to take inside for the night, Dean went to the motel office and paid for their room. He was on his phone when he came out, nodding to the room a few doors down from where they'd parked. Dean took one of the duffels from Sam, finished his call and closed his phone. "That was Bobby. He got the message and will meet us there tomorrow." Jake pushed slowly out of bed. They'd just crossed the Ohio border and he knew one of them would be finishing their trip alone. He sat on the edge of the bed, breathing in the night air and letting his eyes adjust to the lower lighting before heading to the bathroom. The trip from California had taken longer, but then they weren't as young as they'd once been and driving cross country wasn't as easy as it once was. Ben turned restlessly in his own bed, but didn't wake up. Jake watched him sleep for a few minutes. He eased down on the edge of Ben's bed and gently wrapped his fingers around Ben's wrist, knowing in the morning just one brother would wake up. Sunset Memorial Park, North Olmsted, Ohio… Billy Gareau had worked here since his college days, now he was the head grounds keeper at this cemetery. He'd seen lots, but nothing touched him nearly as much as the day one man came to bury his brother. He'd known the names Jake and Ben Colt, of course, since his dad had worked with Jake in the Cleveland Police department many years ago. His father said Jake had gone nuts, taken off and dragged his younger brother with him. Billy wasn't so sure he didn't believe the stories his dad told of what Jake claimed to have seen. Strange things went on in cemeteries and he was in one day and night on a regular basis. Maybe Jake Colt hadn't been the crazy one. He'd checked on the guy every day when he took lunch, the remaining brother who came to visit a grave religiously for three years. Sometimes he'd talk to the guy. Billy had been married and divorced twice, yet here was a man who'd lived his life with a brother and they never once gave up on one another. There was a message in there somewhere, Billy was sure. What he found this day didn't surprise him one bit. He knew he'd have to take care of this sooner or later and about a year ago had simply offered to make sure things were done however this guy wanted. The coroner would be here soon, after all the proper paperwork Billy would do as he'd promised and have the man he found hunched dead over his brother's grave today cremated. He didn't get what the small packet of herbs and salt was for, but he'd put that in with the body. People had asked for odder things. "This is it?" Dean stopped the car and nodded out the window. "That's the address." Sam's heart fell, he was afraid this is where they'd find the Colt brothers. "Which way?" Guiding the car through the front gates of the large cemetery, Dean glanced sideways at Sam. Wordlessly Sam pointed to the road leading to the right. It wasn't a long drive, a few minutes through immaculate grounds. The sun shone down brightly on freshly cut grass and flowering shrubs. Finally, they found the marker they'd been searching for. Climbing from the car, Sam stretched in the sun and scanned the section of cemetery. "Which one do you think died first?" He pulled his lower lip between his teeth for a few beats. Dean turned and leaned both arms on the roof of the car. "I don't think it matters, Sammy. Whichever way it went it was the end for them both. We'll find out soon enough." He pushed off the car and followed Sam off the road and onto the grass, "Hey, Sammy, what do you suppose happened to their car?" Dean jogged to catch up with him and pushed his elbow into Sam's side. Sam snorted, rolled his eyes and shook his head as he walked over the grass, reading grave markers, chanting a continuous I love my brother in his head. They stood in silence before two bronze plaques near an oak tree, staring at the names etched there in reverence. Even Dean was quiet, becoming more still than Sam could ever remember him being. They hadn't even spent this much time at their own mother's grave. Dean had never seen the point of standing where there was no body. He'd scoffed at visiting a headstone that had been put up by someone they didn't even know. And now that they did, Sam wondered what Dean was thinking now. Like too many times in their lives, his brother's expression gave away nothing. Sam had already accepted that they were gone. He'd known before they got much closer to their destination that the address wasn't residential. It didn't lessen the ache of disappointment in his breast. He'd wanted to meet them, even if he had spent the past few days in their shoes. Everything dies... He sighed, shuffling a little, before kneeling down to touch the plates before they left, moving unconsciously in a gesture of respect and remembrance. There was no way to tell who went first, no dates were beneath their names, and he knew Dean was right. It didn't matter who went first...It would have been the end for both of them. But not for us, Sam thought as he felt Dean move beside him, his shadow spilling over the graves. Everything dies, but not everything comes back. His fingertips ran the edge of their names, gracing the only thing that was written on each: Brother A deep pressure started to build behind his eyes, spreading along the bridge of his nose and bleeding back through his frontal lobe. He sucked in a breath, the grave markers shimmering in and out of vision, the beating of his heart echoing through his ears. And then there was nothing, no sight or sound, no sensation, before the deluge of images bombarded him. Jess smiling as she poured coffee, Dean in the park when he was young and an older man giving him back his football, Sam getting a birthday present from a kind stranger when he was seven, and then he knew the ones he was seeing were Jake and Ben, the last flashes of faces and moments of Jake by Ben's bedside... Sam lurched away from the graves, finding Dean's arm against his back, a hand at his shoulder, his voice echoing through the fog of Sam's mind, calling his name. Dean was helping him up, spinning him to face him, hands steady against his face while the rest of the world tilted for a moment. Pressing his eyes shut, Sam drew in a deep breath and re-centered himself. Dean was there. Always there. For the first time in a long time Sam didn't feel like such a freak. For the first time in a long time, he wasn't some curse. Dean had reminded him of that by just giving a damn, by running after once again showing Sam there was nothing that could change what he was to Dean. "'M okay..."Sam muttered before opening his eyes, finding Dean's expression saturated with concern. Sam's hand settled against Dean's shoulder, squeezing it to convey some semblance of reassurance. "'M okay, Dean. I am." He shook his head, voice breathy, throat tight. The last image of Jake and Ben causing his eyes to sting. "Really need to figure this psychic thing out...getting sick of not being able to control it..." Dean had released him, staying close. "We will, Sam. You have my word." Sam smiled a little, hand going to his eyes, pressing against them, the images still seared there behind his lids, reanimating as he pressed harder creating sparks of light. "What did you see?" Dean asked. "You saw them didn't you?" Sam's hand dropped away, eyes sliding to the bronze plaques which were glinting, catching the sun. "I got some last looks. Nothing that made sense..." He sighed deeply. "You're right, Dean. Doesn't matter how they died...they fought long and hard...and together." Dean nodded slowly. "That's all that matters." The soft crunch of grass beneath someone's feet caused both of them to turn in unison. Sam saw Bobby walking toward them, hands shoved deep in his pockets, ball-capped head bowed. He looked up at the two of them from under the brim, smiling weakly, eyes going to the graves. "Always wondered what happened to them," he said quietly, coming to stand at Sam's side. Sam had called Bobby again just outside of Cleveland, telling him the truth about where they'd been these past few days. He remembered how quiet Bobby had become, the names, Jake and Ben Colt, breathed through the phone like they were to be revered. Bobby never knew what happened to them. Only found their car with Rufus a few years ago. Sam had asked him not to tell Dean. Sam had plans for that car and for his brother. Bobby gave Sam a nod and removed his baseball cap, running a hand through his hair. "You two reminded me of them in a way," he sighed. "Jake always had some smart ass thing to say." His eyes slid to Dean who huffed, ticking up the corner of his mouth in response. Bobby then nodded to Sam. "Ben always seemed to know what to do." Bobby returned his cap and shrugged. "In hunting, family is where you find it. What you two have is rare. A gift. I'm glad I got to know them, Jake and Ben, even if it was just when I was starting out. Saved my life...You two are the only family I have now. Took what those two gave me and wanted to do the same for you. Had no idea you'd become like sons." Sam smiled at that, and Dean clapped Bobby on his shoulder. "You're getting soft in your old age, you know that?" he asked. "Ever the smart ass," Bobby shook his head. "Say I'm old again and I'll whoop your ass, boy." Dean smirked. "All I'm saying is this war is dark and ugly and suffocating...but you have each other. There will always be comrades, brothers in arms, people fighting the good fight, one generation to the next." He nodded to the graves. "Consider the torch passed." Sam swallowed against the tightness gathering in his throat, taking in what Bobby was saying, nodding in agreement. Bobby looked over at Dean, shaking his head. "Good to see you're not knocking on Death's door," he said. While it was said with a joking air, Sam heard the deeper thread of concern. Bobby had to have driven there straight, no sleep, to be with them now. That or he'd discovered a way to cheat time and space. "You're walking, too. Good sign." "I just got back, I'm not looking to check out anytime soon," Dean said quietly, eyes sliding to Sam's with a promise. "As for the leg...I've had worse." "Good, kid. Wanna keep you both around." Bobby threw a glance back toward his rusted out Chevelle at the entrance to the cemetery. "I'll give you two some time. There's a diner back at the street before last. Meet you there." Sam watched him go wondering once again if he knew what he'd done for them. If he had any concept of what it meant to know he'd come all this way, even if it was to find them both well. He could see the gratitude etched in his brother's face as he stared after their friend, then slowly back to the graves. Comrades. Brothers in arms... There was no greater peace in Sam in that moment, as he studied his brother, then knowing that they were the next generation to fight and survive, to live and protect and overcome. They were going to fight the good fight, and there was no greater hope in Sam than in the promise that he had a brother who would fight unconditionally alongside him. -The End- A/N: Thank you all for reading and for the encouragement along the way! Special thanks again to our betas as well. We hope you've enjoyed this story as we've both enjoyed writing it. If you are interested, the next installment in the War Without Front series will be A Bright World by Bayre, and comes out tomorrow here: (http : // bayre. webs .com /abrightworld. htm) Remember to take out the spaces. This link won't work until July 16. Since Jake and Ben didn't become hunters out of revenge, but more because hunting things, saving people, it made sense that their end wouldn't be a typical hunter ending. We've loved having you along for the journey. Take care. --Bayre & SJ	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4897602/9/Colt-Winchester	<urn:uuid:f9dc23c7-bf19-44fe-af6c-4b723f69c180>	en	0.991359	0.111548
x msnbc English 46 Set Clip Length: out of portland, oregon tonight. shots were fired at the clackamas town center mall earlier. witnesses say a gunman with a semiautomatic rifle wearing camouflage and a mask began firing near a food court. people fled the scene as the shots were being fired. at this hour, we have one person confirmed dead. multiple people believed to have been shot and wounded. officials say the gunman has been, quote, neutralized. we're continuing to monitor this story and bring you the latest from our affiliate kgw. let's listen in. >> she ran. >> right. he had just run into her at the mall. and he had left. and then heard about the shooting. and that's when he texted her, and she was in hiding in a storeroom with about 20 other people. and she could hear the shooter still walking around at the time. that was a former law enforcement dax mcmillan who gave us that information. we certainly hope that she and so many others are all right tonight. >> it gives you -- that kind of story gives you chills, it really does. just the unbelievable fear that must have been going through the people who are in the m trying to wrap my head around the mass shooting that happened in oregon earlier this week. when i saw this morning that this had happened, i sunk in my chair. you really cannot do justice to what these kids and what these teachers have just experienced." in the classroom where colin goddard was shot at virginia tech, there were 17 people in that classroom. only seven of them survived. two dozen kids were shot and wounded in a high school cafeteria in springfield, oregon in 1998. 1998. the police chief there now, who was a first responder that horrible day at that oregon high school 14 years ago said today about newtown, "i know that there is going to be a lot of emotion in that community." he said," in addition to the victims and the families in newtown, that his heart goes out to the police and the emergency services personnel that responded to deal with this, because this is going to take a toll on a lot of people." beth nimmo whose daughter was killed in the columbine high school mass shooting, she said today, "as far as the parents go, they're not going to know what hit them for a , a masked gunman opens fire outside portland, oregon, killing two people in a crowd of holiday shoppers before turning the gun on himself. >> i heard two loud booms. i thought that they were something falling in the mall. i looked again, i glanced to my left, and i seen, like, gunshots shot everywhere, shooting everywhere, people running for their lives. >> i just bolted. there were little kids, families, moms, we told everybody get inside the fitting rooms. >>> north korea fires its first successful long-range missile test. even china is alarmed. >>> jenna bush hager announced on the "today" show they are expecting. george and laura bush call in their congratulations. >> president, mrs. bush, what do you want the grandchild to call you? >> sir. [ laughter ] >> we want to call him poncho. >> jimmy baker's grandkids call him happy. i kind of like the ring of that. >> it means boss. >> popsicle isn't half bad either. >> yeah, speak for yourself. >> happy days and good day, i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. and we are 20 days away from that so-called fiscal cliff. in our new nbc news mall shooting yesterday outside of portland, oregon. high caliber semiautomatic rifle. another shooting and still, no discussion about gun control. when is the right time? the president of the brady campaign joins me next. ♪ [ male announcer ] a european-inspired suspension, but it's not from germany. ♪ a powerful, fuel-efficient engine, but it's not from japan. ♪ it's a car like no other... from a place like no other. introducing the all-new 2013 chevrolet malibu, our greatest malibu ever. ♪ [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. i just finished a bowl of your new light chicken pot pie soup and it's so rich and creamy... is it really 100 calories? let me put you on webcan... ...lean roasted chicken... and a creamy broth mmm i can still see you. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. >>> five, six shots and i heard him yell out i . >>> welcome back. some stories making news this morning now. in oregon a tour bus crashed through a guardrail and down a steep embankment killing nine people, injuring 20. the driver lost control on a highway covered in snow and ice. >>> incredible images captured from a dashboard camera shows a plane crashing in to a hoin moscow. five crew members died. three survived. there are no passengers on board. >>> someone who didn't don't identified claimed the body of adam lanza the man who killed 26 people at sandy hook elementary in connecticut on december 14th. >>> 200 students, parents and faculty from the sandy hook school attended the new york giants game sunday. they were high fived by the giants players. >>> kim kardashian is pregnant. kardashian's family confirmed the news but the father to be rapper kanye west announced it last night during a concert in atlantic city. kim is about 12 weeks with the baby due in the summer. >>> the way that congratulations have all been going all night on twitter, her mom tweeting oh, baby baby baby. they tweeted most pregnancies in the last nine months or this happening in shopping mallses in oregon and movie theaters in colorado, college campuses in virginia. of course finally a first grade class in connecticut. in a state that certainly has tougher gun laws than, say, a lot of other red states. in a community that seems like it should have been so shielded from this and a season that is supposed to be about peace. >> exactly. >> i think it underlined in so many ways why none of us, are none of us are shielded from this kind of violence unless we force our leaders to do something. >> well, and, again, i think i worry about what andrea mitchell is saying about the concern about whether or not the president in congress has the guts to do something. i would say that it would be one of the most disappointing things i've ever witnessed in my entire lifetime. if we can't make fundamental changes in our gun laws but, not only that, in how we handle mental illness in this country, school security in this country and, also, the pervasive and deadly culture of these violent video games which i don't care, i'll say it, feed into this. feed into almo this too many times, whether it is an elementary school in newtown or a shopping mall in oregon or a temple in wisconsin or a movie theater in aurora or a street coroner chicago, these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. >> the newtown police continued to update throughout the day and night. >> we will leave no stone unturned as we are looking at every facet off this investigation, whether it is the shooter or the victim, and we will look at everything, and we certainly will go in and out of state, and work with local law en s forment and federal agents and whatever we need to do to answer the questions as to what transpired here. >> this is a continuing and developing story, and for the very latest, let's go now to msnbc's chris jansing in n newtown, connecticut. hi, chris. >> well, we were expecting this news conference to happen two hours ago, but the delay is not surprisi surprising. i spoke at 7:00 to lieutenant vance who is the lead spokesman for the lead police here, and they are the lead investigators on the scene, and you can imagine with the n place earlier this week in portland, oregon, shooter dressed in all block with a semiautomatic weapon. today we're told the shooter, one more time, dressed in black, maybe with a load bearing vest that would allow him to carry more magazines. part of what we have to get into is do these guys see themselves as some type of commando or something? what commando goes after kids? goes after little kids? and as -- >> does that lend some kind of moral authority to the horrific actions, the wearing of a uniform of some kind? >> it may go along with some type of fantasy we have. you said wrap your arms around it. i have been trying to do that all day. how can anyone in their right mind or wrong mind justify the killing of children -- >> let's go to profile questions. the person shows up with two semiautomatic pistols have that 15 rounds each. so they're ready to shoot a lot of people. so it's hard to believe one thing led to another. the initial intent was to do a lot of horror. >> and when we're told over 100 rounds have been fired, do the math. that means about four or five magazines per wea january 7th in miami. number three was florida followed by oregon and kansas state. across the pond now to england, the duchess of cambridge showed off her field hockey skills at her old prep school. even though she's wearing these crazy boots with the three-inch heels, she did seem to impress the students. >>> now to pennsylvania, fans of the minor league hockey team the hershey bears set a new record at the annual teddy bear toss. a record 12,497 stuffed bears, they all rained down on the ice. they are donated to hershey children's hospital. >>> and now for another look at the weather, here's nbc meteorologist bill karins with the weather channel forecast. what did you think of that? >> that's a great name. minor league hockey, hershey bears, that's great. >> cute. >> makes me want some chocolate. good morning, everyone. across the northeast, some rain moved through late yesterday. it's very strange. it feels like spring across the country today. temperatures ridiculously off the charts. some of that warm air moving up to new england. for this time of year to be at 50 or near 50 in bo a terrifying turn in portland, oregon, yesterday, when a masked gunman stormed into a busy shopping mall and opened fire, killing two people, injuring another before apparently turning the gun on himself. nbc's kirk gregory has the chilling details. >> reporter: a day of holiday shopping turned into a horrific afternoon of terror when a gunman opened fire inside a crowded suburban portland mall. >> we started receiving calls at 3:30, multiple 911 calls. we responded quickly. >> reporter: several store employees locked themselves in break rooms and bathrooms until police could arrive. >> many people locked in place, many people ran. those are the two most appropriate things to do in these circumstances. >> reporter: shaken family members waited anxiously for news as police worked to secure the mall and search for victims. >> i just want to hug her and i want her to get out. >> reporter: eyewitnesses describe a chaotic scene. >> i heard several shots and saw a lot of people running, so i just went to the doors and held them open because people were trampling each other trying to get out. > has been identified as the mass gunman who fired randomly at holiday shoppers in oregon mall killing two people and then himself. a 15-year-old girl is in serious condition after being shot in the chest. police still don't have a motive for the shooting. >>> secretary of state hillary clinton will testify before congress on december 20th about the report on the deadly attack on september 11th against the u.s. diplomatic mission in benghazi, libya, in which four americans died. >>> california governor jerry brown is being treated for early stage prostate cancer and is maintaining a full schedule while undergoing radiation. >>> in argentina, violent protesters as demonstrators threw rocks and other objects at police who responded with pepper spray. the protesters were angry because judges found 13 defendants not guilty in a human trafficking case. >>> and in ukraine, there were fights outside of parliament as activists and lawmakers attacked a fence around the building and then inside fist fights as law makers from two opposing parties started arguing. >>> all right. heading over to wa after being stolen, and then somehow ended up in oregon. but thanks to a microchip kane's owner was located and he was flown home just in time for christmas. >>> and now for some entertainment news. notch another big win for the little guys. bilbo and pals dwarfed the competition at the box office for a second straight week. "the hobbit: an unexpected journey," raked in nearly $37 million. less than half of last week's haul, but still more than double tom cruise's "jack reacher," which came in second. >>> rihanna has gotten into the holiday spirit donating nearly $2 million to a hospital in her native barbados in memory of her late grandmother. she says the gift was her way of giving back to barbados. >>> one year after separating, ashton kutcher filed for divorce from demi moore last week. the official may/december split could cost the "2 and a half men" star a pretty penny. moore wants as much money from kutcher as she got from ex bruce willis. that amount has never been disclosed, but it is thought to be considerable. >>> and another hollywood ending. new york housewife-turne being stolen and then somehow ended up in oregon. thanks to a microchip kane's owner was located and he was flown home just in time for christmas. >>> and now for some entertainment news. notch another big win for the little guys. bilbo and his pals beat the competition. the hobbit, an unexpected journey raked in nearly $37 million. that's less than half of last week's haul, but still more than double tom cruise's "jack reachreac reach reacher" which came in secretary. rihanna donated nearly $2 million to her native barbados in memory of her late grandmother. the gift was her way of giving back to barbados. >>> one year after separating ashton kutcher filed for divorce from demi moore. it could cost the "two and a half men" star a pretty penny. moore was as much from kutcher as she got from her ex, bruce willis. that amount was never disclosed but that's supposed to be pretty considerable. >>> new york housewives turned entrepreneur bethany frankel has separated from her husband. the 42-year-old treated i am heart broken. i am sad. we will work through this as a family. >>> now for anot news this morning, oregon man dropped his loaded handgun in a movie theater while watching "the hobbit" and claim ee eed -e back to claim it last night. >>> 2013 models, tested for crashes where the front corner of the vehicle hits another vehicle, structure or pole. the honda accord, dodge avenger, ford fusion, vokz wasing passat and the nissan ultima did better then luxury counterparts, enough to earn the institute's newest rating of top safety pick plus. >>> south korea elected its first woman president. >>> many of the patrons are from virginia tech, the scene of the deadly campus shooting in 2007. >>> a new international gallup poll founded if the happiest people in the world are in sunny climates like panama and paragu paraguay. the u.s. was 33 on list of happy nations. >>> the youtube video of what appears to be an eagle appearing to swoop down and grab a child is a hoax. it was created by four animation students at a school in montreal. they got us all. >>> now for a check of your morning morning markets. the dow opens at 13,251 after falling 98 points yesterday. the s&p and th home, a soccer tournament in delaware and a mall in oregon. 85 people died in those 14 incidents. many of them make news for a day or two. then they fade. although some incidents are big enough to prompt action a little bit. after the virginia tech massacre, we learned the gunman's history showed he had treated for mental issues for years. in response, then governor tom cain signed new mental health reform into law giving the sate more latitude to commit mentally ill people who pose a danger and commenting $42 million to the state's facility. two years later, the state found no increase in the number of people committed and multiple cuts to the funding. earlier this year, in colorado, an attack exposed how easy it is to purchase ammunition online. the shooter wag able to bypass federal background checks and buy 3,000 rounds for a pair of glock handguns and 300 shotgun shells, a bullet proof vest and a high capacity magazine, all of its over the internet. because holmes had a clean record, the purchases were completely legal. the aurora shooting brought back influence of hollywood and t through this too many times. whether it is an elementary school in newtown or a shopping mall in oregon or a temple in wisconsin or a movie theater in aurora or a street corner in chicago, these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods and these children are our children. >> live look there in newtown, connecticut, where folks are gathered for a news conference that was supposed to start about two hours ago. at the news conference we are expecting to hear the names of the victims. the officials there tell us that they are going to officially release the names of all of the victims from yesterday's mass shooting at sandy hook elementary school. when that happens we will bring it to you live. expecting to hear from the governor of connecticut at some point over the next few hours as well. governor malloy. going to be addressing folks in connecticut. that was president obama just a few moments ago talking about the tragedy. that was a weekly radio address. he used his weekly radio address. mr. obama said the nation grieves for those killed in newtown and their families. he also said that it is our children. the violence we see spreading from shopping malls in oregon to movie theaters in colorado to college campuses in virginia to elementary schools in connecticut. it's being spawned by the toxic brew of a violent popular culture, a growing mental health crisis, and the proliferation of combat-styled weapons. though entrenched special interests are going to try to muddy the cause in the coming days, the cause of this sickening mass shooting like the others is no longer a mystery to common-sense americans, and blessedly, there are more common-sense americans than there are special interests, even if it doesn't always seem that way. i say good luck to the gun lobbyist. good luck to the hollywood lawyer who tries to blunt the righteous anger of millions of parents by hiding behind twisted readings of our bill of rights. our government rightly obsesses day and night on how to prevent the next 9/11 from being launched from a cave in afghanistan or a training base in yemen, but perhaps, just perhaps, now is the time they start obsessing on how to stop the next attack on state and oregon today. >>> violent protests. the inauguration of mexico's new president earlier today. take a look at this. more than 2,500 people took to the streets of mexico city, just a few blocks where the new president was to be sworn in. three protesters were hurt and one student is reportedly in critical condition. demonstrators accusing of using bribery to win the election there. those protests were eventually dispersed and as you can see there, the new president has been sworn in. let's bring in telmundo's jose to talk more about this. how much of this is with the revolutionary party? >> well was in power for 72 years until the year 2000 when they lost their election there. 12 years later they go back in power but this is a new face. he's 46 years old and married to a soap opera star and he's young, energetic and he's sharp and he's media friendly. i think a lot of the people are really upset about the possibility that the old precorruption, not really democratic in nature will come back. but, you know what, craig, a lot of problems in mexico is confronting these next six ye and tomorrow hammering the west coast, especially from the bay area all the way up to the oregon border and into the mountains going to see significant rainfall. and that could lead to mud slides, and also some localized flooding. so it could potentially be dangerous just to be out on the roads. and also you have to count in too there is going to be strong winds. and once again, there could be more power outages. back to you. >> chris warren from the weather channel, chris, thank you. >>> back to politics now. time now for one more helping of trail mix. and we're letting this one go to pot. as in weed. so if you're someone who is prone to the munchies, so to speak, this story may be of interest to you there is a new poll out. it shows for the first time ever an even split amongst americans about whether marijuana should be legal. 47% of 47%. not exactly an even split there is the 3% on either side there. it seems rather dubious i suppose. speaking of dubious, congress on the brink of being branded as the least productive governing body to oversee our country since the 1940s. the last ti party, involved in state parties like oregon where they changed their platform. you need to be involved in state party politics and that's how we get involved in the national party. that's how it works. so you don't want to depend on a surrogate per se. >> why can't republicans lean forward or backward? >> forward. >> good. thank you clark cooper, joan walsh. >>> coming up. when charlie crist made it official and make a democrat, he bap the first big state governor to switch sides since john conley of texas became a republican. the gop has declared war on it's moderat moderates. the former and perhaps future governor of florida, charlie crist joins us tonight. >>> president obama is campaigning and republicans are considering. will the president gain a small victory on taxes or a big deal. >>> and we have the annual list of the most notable quotes of the year, the verbal gaffes forever. the list is fool of bloopers like legitimate rape and etch-a-sket etch-a-sketch. let's see if you can guess which verbal stupble made the top of the list. >>> let me finish with the key percentages of th tyler roberts as the man who walked into an oregon shopping mall packed with holiday shoppers and children in line to see santa and opened fire with an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle. police say roberts who wore a hockey mask during the rampage killed two shoppers, injured a third before taking his own life. police also say they have no motive for the crime and that the high powered weapon had been stolen. and so now comes the predictable cycle. a horrendous crime with firearm stronger than any hunter would need. an honest attempt at a gun control conversation that america badly needs. and then contempt as anyone who would speculate about the application of the second amendment. lather, rinse, repeat. today seen through the prison of yet another mass shooting. the 15th this last year. last week seen through the prism of domestic violence after an nfl shot and killed his wife and then himself. we know where it goes. condemnation of the crime, but no political courage to do anything. but if congress were prepared to do something, anything, that would be the best christmas present of , it was oregon. getting bomb threats. a week after that, it was 30 courthouses across the state of tennessee. bomb threats and no devices were found by authorities. one court clerk reported hearing a man say if this is the courthouse you are about to be blown up. so it was neb and washington and tennessee and mississippi. after the news broke, we spoke of officials and the fbi. and they told us that they were related. quote it is an ongoing investigation. but it would be foolish not to look into the possibility that these are connected. the director of homeland security told us we were in contact wither officers went in and confronted him or whether, as we saw in the portland, oregon, mall shooting this past week, whether the shooter actually shot himself committing suicide. we know that at least two handguns were found. you know, that takes us back to april 2007 when the shooter at virginia tech, in that case, who killed 32 and wounded 15, also had two handguns. what it does suggest, though, is that this individual went in there with carrying two handguns and perhaps other ammunition. he went in there apparently to confront someone. we're told that confrontation took place in the office of the school and may have spilled out from there. we're still trying to understand the number of victims and the level of injury. >> clint, you know, when we talk about these shootings, first off, they are mentioning that it's happening with a frequency that is absolutely horrifying in temz of the fact that this is something that seems to be recurring, an actual nightmare that keeps happening. in terms of the ages of the students here, this -- up until now most of these shootings have happened on college through this too many times whether it's an elementary school in newtown or a shopping mall in oregon or a temple in wisconsin or a movie theater in aurora or a street corner in chicago, these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children, and we're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this regardless of the politics. >> if i can bring in democratic strategist julian epstein. julian, we've learned those children who survived were told to hold hands and close their eyes as they walked out of the school. this is devastating enough for adults, but for children? >> it's devastating for the country, and if you consider the age of the victims involved here, martin, this is probably the worst school shooting that we've ever experienced in the country's history, and as bad as it is, we have to keep in mind that this kind of tragedy is occurring every single day in the united states. every single day 30 americans die from handgun related homicides. that's 200 a week. that's 11,000 a year. that's the equivalent of a through this too many times. whether it's an elementary school in newtown or a shopping mall in oregon or a temple in wisconsin or a movie theater in aurora or a street corner in chicago, these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods and these children are our children. and we're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics. >> "meaningful action," those words. meaningful action. legislatively, what might we be looking at? are we talking, you know, renewing the 2004 ban on assault weapons? are we talking about limiting some of these -- what are we talking about, possibly? >> i think for president obama, the floor is at least renewing the assault weapons ban. that's very important, because from '94 to 2004, we had at least a law in this country that stamped the production of these most dangerous weapons, weapons that really are only used for massed more. they don't have another purpose. and when that law expired, we lost that stamping. we're way behind, even in da catching up, to have a system that regulates those or a shopping mall in oregon or a temple in wisconsin or a movie theater in aurora, or a street coroner chicago, these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children.ner chicago, these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. and we're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics. this evening michelle and i will do what i know every parent in america will do, which is hug our children a little tighter, and we'll tell them that we love them, and we'll remind each other how deeply we love one another, but there are families in connecticut who cannot do that tonight, and they need all of us right now. may god bless the memory of the victims. and in the words of scripture, heal the broken hearted and bind up their wounds. >> much like the president of the united states, americans are experiencing a wide range of emotions tonight. and it's difficult to process them. these are photos no one will be able to forget. the sight of crying children being led away from a s in newtown, a shopping mall in oregon, a house of worship in wisconsin, a movie theater in colorado, countless street corners in places like chicago and philadelphia. >> nbc's kristen welker at the white house. the president included that statement in the weekly address about the shootings. but yesterday he had a very emotional reaction. >> it was really one of the most emotional responses that we've ever seen from this president, alex. he was reacting not only as the president, as the commander in chief, but also as a father who has two young daughters. one of his main goals yesterday was to send a message to connecticut that their tragedy is the nation's tragedy. here is a little bit of what he had to say yesterday. take a listen. >> i know there is not a parent in america who doesn't feel the same overwhelming grief that i do. the majority of those who died today were children. beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. they had their entire lives ahead of them, birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own. >> and, alex, the president wasn't just emotion hit washington, oregon, and northern california today and more heavy rain is expected to pound the region through tomorrow. flooding is causing problems like sinkholes. cnn's dan simon is standing in front of a huge one in lafayette, california. dan, another round of storms is coming, as wolf said. can that rain-soaked area handle anymore rain? >> reporter: well, it's just a mess, kate, and the forecast is bad news for these rain-soaked communities. let me explain where i am. i'm in lafayette, california, standing inside a sinkhole. this is pretty dramatic. it's 80 feet long, 40 feet wide, 15 deep. let me explain how this happened. the water was gushing beneath the road here. there's a creek. and basically, the soil just ripped away and it caused the street to cave in. crews have been working all day, trying to clear out these large chunks of concrete. they also had to create these alternative lines, these temporary lines for water and sewage to service this neighborhood, so they didn't, you know, go without basic services. the weather has been terrible here in the bay area for is going broke? jim is a contributor to the daily caller and he joins us from portland, oregon. good morning to you. >> i am fine. >> steve: 40 year was teaching you decided to go ahead and retire and you have a nice benefit with tiaa kraft . you call would social security and then asked you what about somebody's availability to visit your children? >> that's right. after deciding whether or not to take my benefit, immediately or do it retroactively which was a surprise to me. i needed to set up an interview with a social security person about my dependent children and their eligibility. a total surprise to me. >> steve: that's right. have always figured that if somebody is kill would or dies, and they have minor children that there is some sort of social security benefit for the survivors, you are telling us that you discovered that you are very much alive and you have retire now your children are eligible for social security. >> i have three children under the age of 18 and what i learned through this short interview i had with the social security administration, they would be elig a real healthy tree? try the state that produces the most christmas trees which is oregon. with almost 5 million. north carolina and michigan are the runners up. and those are your number once. citracal slow release continuously releases calcium plus d with efficient absorption in one daily dose. citracal slow release. this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. how much is your current phone bill? four sixteen seventy six a month! okay, come with me -- we're gonna save you money. with straight talk at walmart, you get unlimited talk, text and data for only $45 a month per phone. would we get the same coverage? same coverage on america's best networks. you saved $146.76 by switching to straight talk. awesome! now you can afford to share your allowance with me. get the season's hottest smartphones like the samsung galaxy s suggests, the guy on friday gets the guns from his mother. the guy in portland, oregon, earlier this week stole the gun. cho at virginia tech went out and bought them, even though he clearly had psychological problems and no stops had been placed against him. we have 310 million americans. 275 million guns. it's going to be a challenge keeping guns out of those hands who would use them in a wrong way, but we've got to start somewhere, and we've got to start sometime. >> doctor. >> i just want to agree very strongly with that. we have to do what's sane and rational for a country like ours, and we have to stop the flow of these high capacity magazine clips, and these kinds of automatic weapons. they don't belong in the hands of civilians period, and even though we have a backlog and we'll have to deal with the consequences of that, that genie is not going to be put back in the bottle. what we need to do now is act like grownups, take responsibility, confront the nra, whatever we have to do and start having sane, rational policies that have to do with the control of new weapons of this type, of these tragedies in the last few years. an elementary school in newtown, a shopping mall in oregon, a house of worship in wisconsin, a movie theater in colorado, countless street corners and places like chicago and philadelphia. >> nbc's kristen welker is at the white house now. kristen with a hello to you. the president included that statement in his weekly address about the shootings today. but yesterday he offered quite an emotional reaction. >> reporter: it really was, alex. it was one of the most emotional moments that we have ever seen from this president. he said that he was watching these horrific events unfold, not just as commander in chief but also as a father. so he said that he was mourning right along with the families in connecticut. the purpose of his message really to make the point that connecticut's tragedy is the nation's tragedy. here's a little bit more of what president obama had to say. and this is from yesterday. take a listen. >> i know there's not a parent in america who doesn't feel the same overwhelming grief that i do. the majority of those who died today were happened in oregon, what happened in colorado, what happened in virginia, what happened in connecticut, what continues happening, congressman. so we can't at least talk about guns without you questioning my integrity and saying that i'm using the death of 20 children to try to make life for my children a little bit safer? we can't even talk about it without you coming on this show -- >> joe -- >> -- and insulting me personally? >> i didn't say it was you politicizing it. you're not even a politician anymore, and i understand that. you look around this town, you look within 24 hours, folks running on and saying hey, we need to change the laws. when they don't even know the situation. >> sir -- >> all i'm saying is let's spend time looking at that but not to use the tragedy. as a very famous political strategist from chicago said, don't let any crisis go unused. i do not want to politicize this. >> let me get this straight. so you can come on the show and say what i've said, by the way, that we've got to look at violent video games, and we've got to look at a violent culture that hollywo finally get some relief from the heavy downpours across western oregon and northwestern california and the mountains, too, should only get about one on three inches of snow throughout the day today. that's a check on your forecast. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. new years clutter is no match for someone with big ideas. with a new project in mind, some how-to knowledge to give us an edge, and more savings down every aisle. it only takes a few twists and turns for those bright ideas to make the new year even brighter. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. start fresh and save with hdx 20 gallon totes, a special buy at just $5.88 a piece. so we created the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number experience. a collection of innovations designed around a bed with dualair technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs - each of your bodies. our sleep professionals will help you find your sleep number setting. exclusively at a sleep number store. comfort individualized. save 50% on the final closeout of our silver limited ed will be best for oregon, what are the things that are native to oklahoma and that will grow the best heat they have their and the lack of water. what will do best in vermont, virginia. let's encourage our natural environment because, one, it is a lot cheaper. and she was a penny pincher. [laughter] frugal is the nice word. but she wanted us to live up to the best that god gave us, and she believed that having those native plants on the highways would remind us of the beauty that god gave us. and it was a lot cheaper not to be planting roses out there or something that was not going to come up next year. so when you see those little signs about, forgive us for not mowing but we're waiting for the seeds to go in the ground, it is said the money. and it is wonderful. we now have a wonderful wildflower center that has been named after her. she finally led us to do it. she did not want it named after her. but the lady byrd wildflower center in austin. we're doing everything to raise money for it and we're goingand. to do a children's garden so we can start with the little children, teaching th Excerpts 0 to 45 of about 46 results. (Some duplicates have been removed) Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)	http://archive.org/details/tv?time=201212&q=oregon&fq=topic:%22msnbc%22	<urn:uuid:d7e77922-c399-41dd-8553-373e7ee67e68>	en	0.978024	0.023211
Return to Transcripts main page Interview with Pastor Joe Carter; Whitney Houston's Death; China's VP Visits Aired February 14, 2012 - 19:00 ET ERIN BURNETT, HOST: Whitney Houston's funeral has been set and today I sat down with the pastor of the church where it will be held. And we take you inside Syria tonight, a dozen people killed. Is it time for America to intervene? What would it cost in money and lives? And the man widely expected to be China's next leader is in the United States today. He met with President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, but why is he going to Iowa? Well of course we're going to tell you. Let's go OUTFRONT. Good evening, everyone. OUTFRONT tonight, questions and sorrow over the death of Whitney Houston. Here's what we know right now. Family and close friends will say farewell to the late pop star in a private funeral on Saturday in her hometown of Newark, New Jersey. Governor Chris Christie has ordered flags lowered to half-staff in honor of Whitney Houston. Sources tell CNN that her body was found by her assistant Mary Jones whom she often called Aunt Mary. Houston's ex-husband Bobby Brown released a statement today about their 18-year-old daughter Bobbi Kristina saying this. Quote, "Obviously the death of her mother is affecting her. However, we will get through this tragedy as a family." Bobbi Kristina, as you may be aware had been taken to Cedar Sinai Hospital following the death of her mother. Well the official cause of her death may not be known for weeks. Beverly Hills police have requested a security hold on the coroner's report, a common practice in high-profile cases. Our Don Lemon has been following this story from Los Angeles. He talked with the medical examiner today, and what did you find out Don? DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of interesting things and the first thing I found out, Erin, from the coroner, he's like there are so many rumors out there that he wishes he could get on television to tamp them down, but he can't because he has to work on this investigation. One of them he said was interesting. He's getting calls from all over the world saying the DEA is going to join the coroner's investigation because prescription medications are killing celebrities in Hollywood. He said completely not true, and Erin, he wanted me to get out to the media to stop you know all of this just speculation about what happens and also he gave me a time line on the actual report. He said while it takes six to eight weeks he said sometimes they do get things earlier, maybe within two to three days or within a couple of days he said like if something spikes, like a certain medication or certain drug or something, and they will take a look at that, why that drug spiked, and they have to retest it, so that six to eight-week period is to give them enough time so that they can make sure of what it is. Here's what he said to me. He said, Don, we don't like to say oh, well, maybe he said. We want to say definitively, definitely, here's what we found at this level with this medical condition, the decedent according to us, our pathologist, the consultant, this professional, this is what we believe killed this person. So that's what he is telling me, so they may get some early indications of something like some sort of drug, some sort or amphetamine whether she had Tylenol or anything like that in her body, they'll get that early, but then they're going to retest it as well to make sure that it's absolutely correct. BURNETT: Which is interesting breaking news that you have I mean that we could find something out potentially if something spiked in the next few days as opposed to that six to eight-week period. Don, I'm very curious though as to -- are you getting any sense of whether prescription drugs were involved or what direction they are leaning in? Because obviously as you are well aware so many people are speculating that, but you know talking to the family pastor today -- BURNETT: -- I certainly got the other side of the story a lot of her friends say, which is look, she had really tried to turn things around and that may not be accurate. LEMON: Yes. Well, here is the thing, and Kelly Price, we saw her on CNN yesterday, the person who was having the party at that true (ph) nightclub on Thursday night, the last pictures we really saw of Whitney Houston. We know that she was drinking from her friend and from people who were at that party. The prescription drugs we know from the coroner were in the room, and he is downplaying the amounts, saying it's you know for an overdose, it wasn't that much and -- LEMON: -- there are more in a typical household, even his household, so that's what we are hearing. We don't know for sure. Only Whitney Houston at this point knows what she took for sure, and now the coroner is trying to figure it out. Erin, if I can just say something -- we talked about the memorial and the burial for Whitney Houston -- if you go online and you look at it and I'm sure if you checked your social media, your Twitter, your Facebook, there are many of her fans who are upset because they want to be able to honor her and pay their respects, and they are upset that it is just private. They want a public ceremony so that they can go out and honor Whitney Houston. BURNETT: Well that's interesting and Don, I'll just say because we were speaking to Reverend Joe Carter who we're going to hear from in a moment, but I can report that he said that those rumors of a big service and ceremony perhaps at the Prudential Center for 18 to 20,000 were never true. He said to the best of his knowledge -- LEMON: Right. BURNETT: But he did say that while many people can't fit in the church, they're going to put a jumbotron (ph) outside the church in Newark which as you know is a little tiny street so that members of the public could come, which obviously is not what most people want, but they will have that for people to participate, so we will see if they end up adding another and much larger platform as well. All right, Don, thanks so much -- LEMON: I think what they wanted -- BURNETT: Go ahead. LEMON: I think what they wanted was some sort of ceremony like the Staple Center for Michael Jackson -- LEMON: -- and apparently now at least at this point, Erin, it is not going to happen. BURNETT: That's right. All right, well absolutely. Thanks very much, Don Lemon, for that reporting there. You have the very latest on when we might know how Whitney Houston really died. But now let's talk about how her death will be commemorated and celebrated. Obviously, admired and loved by millions around the world. You heard from Don how a lot of people are going to be frustrated that they can't participate, but on Saturday her closest friends and family will celebrate her lift at The New Hope Baptist Church in Newark, New Jersey. It's the first place that anyone heard a young Whitney Houston's voice as she sang in the choir. I went to the small parish church earlier today and spoke to Pastor Joe Carter who shared his thoughts about the late pop star, and what he's planning for Saturday. PASTOR JOE CARTER, THE NEW HOPE BAPTIST CHURCH: I pray -- I pray that we can honor her the way she deserves it on Saturday. BURNETT: And you were saying it is something that African- Americans get right? You know how to -- you know how to grieve. CARTER: Yes, I really believe that we know how to mourn. We know how to grieve. We know how to get it out and in a way of hope, in a way of joy. The Christian faith teaches that death is not the end, and so we know how to look forward to the next life, and celebrate here on what is coming up ahead. BURNETT: So, what you are putting together the service now. BURNETT: What are you putting together? And what is going to happen and who is going to sing? CARTER: Well I would love to answer who is going to sing. I just would say everybody that has a great, great voice. We are hearing a lot of entertainers who are going to be here, and we are excited. The family really has put together a program that is going to be musical, be happy, be joyful and really give the kind of feel to congregation and those there that I think Whitney would want to be remembered by. BURNETT: And you have known Whitney now for a long time? CARTER: About since '93, yes. BURNETT: What -- do you remember the first time you met her? CARTER: Yes, yes. And you have got to remember I was a teenager when she came out, so I was -- CARTER: -- I was a big fan -- BURNETT: You were star struck? CARTER: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) as a preacher not to be star struck, but it was an amazing moment. I actually met her in church on an Easter Sunday morning singing in the sanctuary and that was -- I will never forget it. I thought she could sing before I heard her in person, and the conviction and strength of her voice was just phenomenal. I will never forget it. BURNETT: And she came every year to church, usually around the holiday times? CARTER: At one time, it was kind of like around the high (ph) Sundays, but she never, never forgot her church. She always made sure she let us know she loves us and remembered us. BURNETT: What did she sing? CARTER: Well, she sang a song "He would not come down from the cross" and it was a song that when Whitney came, you would expect to hear. BURNETT: She sang the same song -- CARTER: Yes, most of the time she sang that song. Most of the members of the church remember her in the recent past of singing that particular song here. BURNETT: And you said she had not been recently to the church? CARTER: No, I haven't seen her in a little while. It has been a couple of years. BURNETT: All of the talk out there about what happened to her, what state she was in, did you ever see any of the times you saw her, any sign of that? CARTER: No, no, not me personally. Every time I saw her she was just happy, joking around, just, you know, upbeat. BURNETT: You spent some time I know with the family getting the program together -- BURNETT: -- the service together. How is her mother? CARTER: Well, she's hurting. She's grieving of course, but Cissy Houston is a woman of strong faith. She actually was testifying about how God had been so good to her to this point and how she said He's not going to leave her now and I was there to lift her spirits and she ended up lifting mine. It's just an amazing testimony of the grace of God. BURNETT: Well, Reverend Carter also told me when we were there we went into the sanctuary which is what they call the part of the church where people are going to be for the service, saying about 1,500 people would be sitting there. They were counting the seats. And I can also report tonight who will be delivering the eulogy. Reverend Martin Winans (ph) will be doing that at the request of Cissy Houston. He's known Whitney Houston since the early 1980's and of course, his daughter Ceecee (ph) was Bobbi Kristina Whitney's daughter's Godmother. He will be delivering the eulogy on Saturday Reverend Carter told me today. Well rumors that Whitney Houston was out of money that she died are spreading, and it's pretty amazing when there have been reports that she had $100 million contract. We get to the bottom of that. And the man expected to be the next leader of China is here meeting with the president and visiting the Pentagon. Yes, I'm sure a lot was blocked off. And congressional leaders announce they're close to a deal on that payroll tax cut. Why did Republicans cave? BURNETT: So, as Don Lemon has been reporting when he was talking to the assistant coroner in Los Angeles just tonight, we don't know yet what caused Whitney Houston's death, but we do know that the singer was battling drug addiction for years. Obviously, a question as to how much of a role it played in recent times. Her personal problems for many years made more headlines than her music. One of the problems that Houston may have been struggling with at the time of her death though was running out of cash. And to give us an insight into her lifestyle, Janell Snowden, she has been following Whitney Houston for VH1 for seven years and great to have you back, Janell, again. Zack O'Malley Greenburg is a writer for "Forbes" -- UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for having me. BURNETT: And Paul Callan is a contributor for us here at CNN to talk about legally what happens here. Janell first can I just ask you, you know there have been reports she had a $100 million contract. A lot of that obviously recently signed for an album she had not yet produced, but can you tell us about her lifestyle. How did she spend money? How did she live? JANELL SNOWDEN, HOST, VH1 NEWS: You know Whitney Houston was a very private person surprisingly. I mean we know about all of her troubles thanks to interviews that she has done, but if you really think about it, she hasn't done many over the course of the years. There are the blockbuster ones like Dianne Sawyer and Oprah Winfrey, but for the most part Whitney Houston was pretty private. So we don't know exactly how she spent her money. There were reports that she signed a $100 million record deal back in 2001. She released her last album in 2009. I can tell you that since her death, her sales have been soaring on iTunes and they've raised the price from 99 cents for a single to $1.29 and I can just give you a point of reference. Michael Jackson's estate has earned more than $279 million since he died in 2009, so I don't think that if she was suffering from any financial trouble, her estate is going to be in trouble because we all know that artists typically make more money when they are dead unfortunately. BURNETT: Well we know that with Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson. Zack, though you've been reporting on this. BURNETT: Obviously there are some differences in that many of Whitney Houston's songs were written by other people so a lot of that money in her case unlike Michael Jackson would go to someone like say Dolly Parton or someone else? ZACK O'MALLEY GREENBURG, WRITER, FORBES: Exactly and actually we had Michael Jackson's estate -- it's about half a billion dollars over the past 2.5 years, so I mean Whitney Houston is going to have a really hard time catching up to that, especially because like you said she didn't write her own songs. She's not going to share in the publishing that includes any time a song is licensed for TV, movies, et cetera. BURNETT: And what's your sense of how much money she was making? I mean obviously Janell has been reporting on that -- (CROSSTALK) BURNETT: -- $100 million contract, but how much has she made, you know? GREENBURG: Yes, Janell, I heard the same thing too and you know $100 million for a deal signed in 2001, you know paid out per album, sounds like a lot of money to us, but when you think about the fact that her last album was 2009, you know her last tour was 2010, you know it means that she wasn't really seeing that kind of steady stream of income in the recent years, so you know it is not too hard to believe that she could have died in a little bit of financial trouble. BURNETT: Paul, what is your sense of that? Dying in financial trouble, I mean I know a lot of people were shocked when it came out that Michael Jackson had, but often people who have great talent don't have great talent in managing money or managing the people who manage their money. PAUL CALLAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, that tends to be the case. In many situations we see a lot of very wealthy entertainers who die destitute. It's hard to say here, but you know in the end of course with respect to this estate we know she owned property in New Jersey, in Georgia and in Florida. So the states are going to be, one of those states is going to be handling the estate, so we have to see which state it will be and whether she left a will or trust. That's going to be a very, very big question as to -- BURNETT: She is young. I mean she had a daughter, so you would think that she did, but you know she's -- can I just ask you about this issue though of where the royalties go? How does this work? How unusual in it in this case that, you know because Janell is reporting that the cost of the songs has gone up, everything, but you know it is not all going to go to her estate. CALLAN: No, it's not all going to her estate, but there were contractual agreements in place, and whatever she has the right to as she lives most of that will go to her estate or to a trust if she has been smart enough to set herself up that way. CALLAN: You know it really depends on the sophistication of her tax planning and whether when she was in the money whether she hired good financial assistants to direct this. BURNETT: Janell was there any evidence from what you had heard and I know, you know you spent a lot of time not just with her at certain events, but with a lot of people who knew her, that she may have been struggling financially or no? SNOWDEN: There are reports that just weeks before her death she had to ask friends for $100, and her publicity team came out and said that was absolutely not true, and that she had just made the movie "Sparkle," and that she did not work for free. That was their defense. I think it's interesting to note that after her "Moment of Truth" tour, which was in 1987, she was listed by "Forbes" magazine as the highest earning black woman and the third highest earning entertainer only after Bill Cosby and Eddie Murphy, so it's just amazing that so much money seemed to be flowing through her hands throughout her career, but we're still so uncertain as to what she actually left with. BURNETT: Yes. I mean it is interesting and you're saying you know because was she private it is hard to say what she spent it on, but Zack, it does appear that a lot of it went away. GREENBURG: That's right, but you know if you look at the sales of Michael Jackson's albums after he died, eight million in six months, you know probably 20, 30 million worldwide, if she can do even half of that, you know we're talking tens of millions of dollars flowing through her estate through the end of the year. BURNETT: All right, thanks very much to all three of you, appreciate your taking the time -- Paul, Zack and Janell. Well the man expected to be the leader of China is in the United States and we told you a little bit about him yesterday and what we thought was the coolest part, you know his wife being a famous singer in China, and by the way, we know something about her. We're going to tell you later, but we also know why he is going to Iowa tomorrow, and you'll find out next. And fashion innovator Diane von Furstenberg comes OUTFRONT, maybe that's the link to the folksinger (ph) Chinese next first lady. We'll see. She responds to Republicans (ph). BURNETT: Right now the man widely expected to be China's next president is about to sit down to dinner with Vice President Joe Biden at his home in Washington. The end of a busy day, he went and -- Xi Jinping with President Obama. He visited the Pentagon, had lunch at the State Department. The visit comes at a time when we all know there are major questions surrounding China's rise and whether it is an ally or an enemy of the United States. We got a taste of the discussion today when a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Capital Hill commenced. Listen to Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina asked the joint chief's chairman if Chinese hacking into our defense would be considered a hostile act. GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I would consider it to be a crime. I think there are other measures that could be taken in cyber that would rise to the level of a hostile act. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would they be? DEMPSEY: Attacking our critical infrastructure. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that could be a hostile act. DEMPSEY: I think so. SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Allowing us to respond in kind? DEMPSEY: Well, in my view, that's right -- yes. GRAHAM: So I'm going to have lunch with the vice president of China in about 20 minutes, so what do you want me to tell him? DEMPSEY: Happy Valentine's Day. GRAHAM: OK. All right. OK. I will do that. BURNETT: This is just the beginning of Xi Jinping's five-day trip to the United States. Tomorrow he is headed to Iowa. That is right, Muscatine, Iowa, a town he visited in 1985. CNN's Ted Rowlands is in Des Moines for us tonight. Ted, good to see you, and I know Muscatine a little bit out of the way, about three hours away from the capital, why is he going there? TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a great story, Erin. Vice President Xi, when he came to Muscatine in 85, of course he wasn't the vice president of China. He was just part of a very small delegation that came to tour a couple of Iowa farms. When they were there, there were five people and they all stayed in homes in Muscatine with local residents. Well fast forward 26 years, he says, if I'm coming to Iowa, I want to go back and visit with those same people. This was his first trip to the U.S., so he is going to detour from his trip here in Des Moines and head over there and meet with those same people in one of those same homes. They're apparently going to have a little champagne, and some tea, but we talked to a couple of folks there, and they are absolutely thrilled. In fact one of them ran upstairs when she found out that he was coming and dug out an old photo, and sure enough there he is, the new -- going to be the new leader of China standing in her kitchen just -- it's just a great story. BURNETT: It is a great story. I know you talked to them. Here is a little quick clip so everyone can see a little bit about how they feel about him. Here it is. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look at the logistics and the cost of him putting in and coming to this little town that is 35 miles removed from an airplane that will accommodate him and his entourage, there is some motivation just for a little time to spend an hour or hour and a half in a room with as he says his old friends, that's significant. BURNETT: It is nice and I know Iowa's exports to China 1,200 percent higher than they were a decade ago, $600 million. Did that visit drive that drive -- that jump? ROWLANDS: Well, it is unclear if it drove the jump much at all, but here is what is interesting is Terry Branstad said, the governor of Iowa now, was the governor, was his first -- back in '85, so he met him then and then they also met over in Beijing in the fall of this year, so here is what is clear is the relationship that they have with the vice president, soon to be president here in Iowa, they are hoping is going to extend those exports out of Iowa. China, as you mentioned, are consumers of soybeans and farm machinery, a lot of things, they're hoping that that special relationship with the vice president, soon to be president will help the state. BURNETT: All right, thanks very much to Ted Rowlands reporting from Iowa where the next Chinese president will be tomorrow. Well we go inside Syria next, dozens were killed today, what will it take to end the violence? What does an American intervention "Nuts and Bolts" mean? And could Amanda Knox be sent back to Italian prison? BURNETT: We start the second half of our show with stories that we care about, where we focus on our own reporting, do the work, and find the OUTFRONT five. First, tonight, Whitney Houston's funeral will be held Saturday in her hometown of Newark, New Jersey. Private services will be held at New Hope Baptist Church where Houston sang in the choir growing up. Today, I sat down with the church's pastor, Joe Carter, at the church, and he told me that her long time friend Marvin Winans will give the eulogy. I asked Pastor Carter about the plans for Saturday. PASTOR JOE E. CARTER, THE NEW HOPE BAPTIST CHURCH: We are hearing that a lot of entertainers will be here, and we're excited. The family really has put together a program that's going to be musical, be happy, be joyful and really give the kind of feel to congregation and those there that I think that Whitney would want. BURNETT: Number two: Egyptian authorities detailed today the charges against 16 Americans working for international democracy groups in Egypt. Now, we are told that the 24-page document is currently in the midst of being translated from Arabic to English. But Sam LaHood, the son of transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is among the Americans charged. The Egyptian government has blamed unrest in the country on foreign interference. Number three: Italian prosecutors have appealed the decision to overturn Amanda Knox's murder conviction. We spoke to our legal experts Jeff Toobin just a few moments ago and he told us the appeal won't really matter because even if the prosecutors win the appeal, they will have to apply for extradition, which Toobin says is very unlikely. Knox and her boyfriend Raffaelle Sollecito were convicted of murder in 2009, but cleared after a judge found a lack of evidence. Number four: new legislation being introduced to close the carried interest loophole. It's an issue regular viewers know we have been watching closely here at OUTFRONT. This loophole lets hedge fund, but primarily private equity managers or former managers like Mitt Romney, pay a 15 percent tax rate, not the 35 percent that most people on their income. Representative Sander Levin has introduced the Carried Interest Fairness Act, which would tax carried interest at normal income rate. Well, it has been 193 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back? Well, sales of U.S. retailer rose four-tenths of a percent in January, take out things like cars and building materials, which is actually more than anyone expected. And that's good news. And now to Syria. An astonishing new video that we have from today that captures the horror and, frankly, in what is in some cases heroism against brutal force. It shows a young boy in the middle of a crossfire between rebels and troops when a man risks his life to rush in, pick the child up and carry him to safety. There are reports that 400 children have been killed in Syria since January. In total, the year-old uprising has claimed at least 6,000 lives according to activists in the country. Now, we also wanted you to see something else. This is video that appears to show a group of people. As you can see, if you watch them coming forward, being used as human shields for Bashar al Assad's, the president of Syria, tanks, which you see right there in the video. In the clip, the soldiers chant, quote, "With our blood, and our souls, we defend you, Bashar." And there you see that. CNN's Arwa Damon is inside Syria and we cannot reveal her location. But she joins us with the latest on the crisis. ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, we have been moving from safe house to safe house in various locations in Syria, and these safe houses tend to be normal citizens' residences, their families are around. The children, when you speak to them, even if they are 3 or 4 years old, talk about bombs. They ask their parents if the government forces are going to be raiding their homes. One of the homes we were in was also at the same time an underground secret clinic, although calling it an actual clinic would be something of a stretch of the imagination. The clinic itself was nothing more than a family's living room with a bunch of medical supplies, basic medical supplies in it. There is a lot of frustration in one area we were in because they have managed to gather a number of medical supplies, blood to try take into another area that was harder hit. But it had been blocked off for days, and they were also trying to evacuate wounded from this area, trying to actually get them out of the country, because these were severe injuries, and they were unable to do so. At this location as well, the opposition members who we were with have managed to capture a man who said that he worked at a ministry of interior prison. He was caught in cross fire and an ambush. These opposition activists we were with were actually treating him, because they intended to trade him for one of their own with the captured by government thugs. And he was talking about how, yes, he was given orders to shoot to kill. That in some instances, he was confronting unarmed demonstrators with a scope on his rifle that allowed him to see people in front of him as if he were looking at himself in the mirror. He also said that on one occasion, he did in fact slit a man's throat. Now, the opposition activists were naturally very distressed, angry and disgusted at what this man was saying, but they also had a belief that they had to treat him well, because they say they had to be better than the government they are fighting so hard to bring down -- Erin. BURNETT: All right. You can see Arwa Damon there. Again, we cannot reveal her location. As you can see, incredible reporting there, an incredible situation in Syria. Well, pressure is building on President Obama to respond to the Syrian crisis. And Defense Secretary Leon Panetta was on Capitol Hill, talking about massive military cuts at the same time. The Pentagon is going to be slashing $500 billion over the next decade. And Panetta said today that those cuts could come at a cost. LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Let me be clear. Let me be clear. You can't take half a trillion dollars out of the budget and not incur additional risks. We believe they are acceptable risks. But there are risks. BURNETT: Panetta calls them acceptable. But what would happen if the United States decided to get involved in Syria? So, even just take Libya? We asked retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton about the cost. Colonel Leighton was deputy director the National Security Agency, said, look, Libya cost about $900 million for the U.S. And Syria, frankly, is nothing like Libya. An air campaign there would last at least two weeks. The price tag of that alone would be $2 billion, and Syria is not Libya. As we have been reporting, Syria's military boasts 5,000 tanks, 550 Russian MiG jets. A ground force of more than 300,000. So, should the United States use forces to remove Assad? And if so, can we pay for it, money and lives on the line? OUTFRONT tonight, Kori Schake, fellow at the Hoover Institution and former McCain/Palin adviser, and Ed Husain, senior fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations. I appreciate both of you taking the time. And, Kori, let me start with you. You think it's time to consider a military action. How come? KORI SCHAKE, RESEARCH FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Because what the Assad government is doing is genuinely irreprehensible. The U.N. high commissioner for human rights believes that they're committing war crimes by indiscriminately targeting their own population. They killed probably 7,000 people since March. And the situation is dramatically escalating towards a civil war and towards one that might draw in other countries in the region. This is bad and getting worse. BURNETT: Ed, I mean, she's right, it is bad. And there are awful things happening. You could just see those videos that we were showing. So, there's kind of a moral reason people may want to get involved. But then there's Iraq and what we went through there. ED HUSAIN, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Moral repulsion maybe isn't strong enough to drive U.S. foreign policy. I was living in Syria when the Iraq occupation happened for two years. I saw Iraqi refugees come in from Iraq into Syria. Syria is much more diverse. Its ethnic compositions, its sectarian differences and its the tribal rivalries makes Syria look far more disastrous than anything that Iraq had been. And I think it's not just about morality. If it is about saving lives, we should think twice, because thus far, with all of the problems, we have had 7,000 plus people killed in Syria, intervening militarily in Syria and trying to topple the Assad regime without a clear day two plan in case, we don't know what happens after he goes down, risk millions more being killed in Syria. And worse, overspill into Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Iraq, and other countries which border this hot spot that is Syria. BURNETT: Perhaps even Iraq. Well, Kori, how do you respond to that? Because I know some people have said, well, look at Iraq, everyone said that it would be hard for U.S. forces, but they went in, and immediately the Iraqi government fell. That's true. But then it took 10 years for the troops to leave, and still Iraq is not settled. SCHAKE: Yes, I actually agree with many of the concerns that he raised, but not every intervention is Iraq, and not every intervention is Libya, not every intervention is Afghanistan. There are lots of different ways to do this. I particularly like the plan that the Arab League is putting forward which is the progressive penalization of the Assad government for using force against its own civilians. That is that you threaten and will carry out the arming and the training of Syrian opposition forces if the Iraqi government -- excuse me, if the Syrian government continues to do this. SCHAKE: And you eventually diminish the Syrian government's ability to use repressive forces against its own society, force it into a negotiating position to remove the strength. BURNETT: Let me play devil's advocate for a second, Ed, and set this question up to you. And, obviously, you know, al Qaeda said they supported the rebels. I talked to an activist yesterday who was appalled that with that, they want nothing to do with al Qaeda. I want to put that out there. But then I want to ask you this -- you look at Afghanistan back in the day the Taliban was a friend of the United States, and then it became the foe. Arming an opposition doesn't always end in a black and white outcome. HUSAIN: Especially, especially when we don't know who the opposition is. This is an opposition who is sporadic. This is an opposition that's not organized. This is an opposition that has a strong extreme Muslim Brotherhood element. These are not the brotherhood that are the same in, say, Egypt or, say, Lebanon, or other countries. It's an extreme Muslim Brotherhood, and we ought to be very careful in getting into bed with people about whom we know very little, and who are not coherent in what it is they want. BURNETT: All right. HUSAIN: And the real risk there is toppling a regime such as Assad's regime, and unleashing civil war, and rival factions which are already fighting among themselves, by the way, you know, and then putting U.S. lives and U.S. resources at risk for something we don't know much about. BURNETT: Well, thank you, Kori and Ed, thank you very much. A discussion a lot of people I'm sure are having tonight at home, and as America continues to decide what to do. Thanks to both of you. We look forward to talking to you about this again soon. And we are hearing word out of Washington, we could have a deal on the payroll tax extension. We're going to try to confirm that for you and have that breaking news for you after the break. And the latest national poll numbers -- a surge in the GOP's race. Whose surge is it? We'll find out. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) BURNETT: Well, we have breaking news from Capitol Hill. We can confirm that Congress has reached a tentative deal to extend the payroll tax cut until the end of this year. It means average Americans will save between $700 to $2,300 a year. But the compromise didn't come easily. Weeks of negotiations that we all painfully know went nowhere, House and Senate leaders finally announced they're going to extend it without -- oh, this is good -- finding a way to pay for it, $100 billion. Along with the tax cut, negotiators agreed to two other controversial items, extending unemployment benefits and avoiding a fee cut for Medicare doctors. Together, those measures cost about $50 billion. Congress says it will pay for the measures, but, they're not sure yet how. BURNETT: I guess it's not a comedy show. OK, turning to other political news. Mitt Romney is taking to the air waves in Michigan today to try to make sure he doesn't lose his home state in the Republican race for president. A new polls shows Rick Santorum beating him in Michigan. Romney is emphasizing his roots, trying to convince voters he's one of them. But as you can see, hmm. MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, I grew up in Michigan, it was exciting to be here. I remember going to Detroit auto show with my dad. That was a big deal. The people here in Detroit are distressed. I want to make Michigan stronger and better. Michigan has been my home and this is personal. BURNETT: At the same time, he is standing by his position that the auto bailout is a mistake and writing an op-ed in "The Detroit News" today, that "The president tell us that without his intervention things in Detroit would be worse. I think that without his -- I believe that without his intervention, things there would be better." John Avlon and Reihan Salam are with us, along with Jamal Simmons, the three musketeers are together. BURNETT: You are back. All right. Reihan, it's personal. REIHAN SALAM, THE CALLER: Oh, that's my favorite part of that commercial. It is so awesome. It seems like a kind of slightly villainous, but yes. BURNETT: But how much does this matter if he loses it? This is his home state, that's the way he pitches it? SALAM: It's an enormous blow partly because demonstrating that you are the kind of candidate who can do well in a state like Michigan is part of your appeal to GOP primary voters, because, you know, Michigan is not necessarily going to be a true swing state. But a lot of those industrial Midwestern states will be up for grabs. And if Romney can't win Michigan, it raises a lot of doubts about whether or not he is really a serious presidential contender. JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I mean, look, he won Michigan last time, won it by nine points. He grew up there. His father was a popular governor. So, to lose Michigan, to lose your de facto home state would be a major blow. And here is the thing, I mean, there's still plenty of time for the death star to sweep into effect, and ran negative ads against everyone -- BURNETT: Otherwise known as Restore Our Future. AVLON: Otherwise known as Restore Our Future. Plenty of time for those negative ads to make a real difference in this race. What amazes me, though, when you see that op-ed, where he's saying I'm doubling down, I'm saying, I would not have supported the auto bailouts -- now, he decides to stop flip-flopping, really? I mean, this is a high stakes move on his part. I think it's standard principle, but high stakes. BURNETT: Jamal, in the op-ed he begun by writing, I am a son of Detroit, and as you saw his new ad talks about going up in Detroit, going to the auto show with his dad. You're from Michigan, Jamal, how big of a deal is it if Romney loses when he won, as John and Reihan were saying, by nine points last time? SIMMONS: Yes, I, too, am a son of Detroit. And I will say that Michigan is very interesting, because it's kind of a microcosm of the country. It's urban. It's suburban. It's got a lot of the rural areas, a lot of evangelicals. And if you look at the inside of some of these polls there, what's happening there, Romney is losing among Tea Party supporters, he's losing among evangelicals, he's losing every county in the state except for Oakland County. Oakland County is the wealthiest county in the state and one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the United States of America. It's the one place Mitt Romney is doing well right now and betting Santorum in the poll. He has got to find a way to get back to the Michigan blue collar, evangelical kind of Republican base and let them know, because as John said a second ago, he won it last time and his dad was a governor there. It's a de facto home state, and he's got to find a way to bring that all together, or else I think that as someone said earlier, it's a bedlam in the Republican Party if he can't win this one. BURNETT: Bedlam. That would at least be fun to watch. All right. Thanks to all three of you. Appreciate it. One person who might like that is Diane von Furstenberg. She's involved in this political race. We'll tell you why. And we'll get her response to the Republican National Committee, because they called her contribution to the Obama campaign ritzy, at a time when 12 million Americans remain out of work. Really? BURNETT: Have we really come a long way? With all the controversy surrounding birth control, women in the military, even women in the workplace during this election, it's a fair question. And tonight's "IDEA" guest was wondering the same thing when she had an idea that was so revolutionary, it became the symbol of women's liberation. Diane von Furstenberg disrupted the fashion world when she created one of the most basic staples in a lot of women's closet, the wrapped dress. In the '70s, its simplicity became synonymous with feminism and freedom and sexual revolution. Well, tonight, she's changed a lot. She shared her thoughts behind the initial idea and how it has grown into something a whole lot bigger. DIANE VON FURSTENBERG, FASHION DESIGNER: I didn't know what I wanted to do when I started, but I knew the woman I wanted to be, I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be -- a woman who is independent, who doesn't need a man to pay her bill, you know, all of that. And I became that woman. As I was becoming that woman, because it was fashion, I was helping other women to become the women they wanted to be. So when I decided to create the DVF Awards, I wanted to create something that will last after me and that will enable certain women, five women every year, to get exposure on the great work that they do. Usually, most of these women have endured great hardship themselves, and not only have they survived it, but they used that to help other women. BURNETT: This weekend on "Meet the Press," David Gregory read a passage from Rick Santorum's book. And the book is called "It Takes a Family." And here's what he read. He said, "The radical feminists succeeded in undermining the traditional family and convincing women that professional accomplishments are the key to happiness." And I wanted to play, after David read that quote to Rick Santorum, how Rick Santorum responded? RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My wife is a working woman. We had children and she decided to take her career -- take off time from her career and raise children. I can tell you, this section was written in large part in cooperation with her as a mother who was a lawyer, a neonatal intensive care nurse, someone with a great amount of professional experience, who felt very much like society and those radical feminists that I was referring to, were not affirming her choice. BURNETT: What do you think about Rick Santorum's point of view? VON FURSTENBERG: Well, what I think is that I believe, really, that all women should have children, I do. I think that our body is made for that and I think we all should have children, and if we can't, somehow, we should adopt. I think women are made to have children and to be mothers, for sure. I also think that women have to have an identity outside the home, and it makes for much healthier relationship, first for themselves, which at the end is very important, the relationship you have with yourself, with your partner, and certainly your children. I think that if you want the happiness of your children, you want to raise them to be independent children. And there's no better way to make your children independent than being independent yourself. BURNETT: You talk about your third generation, for your business and your company. That involves a big bet on China. VON FURSTENBERG: Yes. I am a great believer -- I think that one of the most extraordinary things that is happening is the speed of the growth of China. It's the speed that is incredible. And I really want to tell everybody that we shouldn't be afraid of that because, you know, when I was a little girl, if I didn't eat my soup, my mother would say, think of all the Chinese that have nothing to eat. When it came to the generation of my children, you say the Chinese make everything. VON FURSTENBERG: And now for my grandchildren, it's the Chinese buy everything. So I don't think we should always look at the Chinese like they're taking jobs away. They're also bringing us more and more jobs. And, of course, you know, there's a lot of things we may agree, we don't agree, but there are a billion and a half people, that's a lot of people to govern. BURNETT: You are a president -- a supporter of President Obama, right? I mean, in terms of your politics and I know that you have designed some of those "Runway to Win" tote bags, scarves. Republicans have panned some of those products as out of reach for many Americans, $75 to $95 each. What's your reaction to that? VON FURSTENBERG: Oh, I don't know. I mean, this is -- this is designing something to raise money. The more you can raise the better it is. You know? It's -- clearly, it's not -- I'm not saying the value of the bag is what they ask for, I don't know. But it is a way of raising money. And I do like President Obama, and so I help him the best I can. BURNETT: All right. Well, interesting. We're going to put more of her interview online so you can take a look at the full segment on our Web site and our blog OUTFRONT. It will be out there soon. OUTFRONT tomorrow, we'll be talking to South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. He's pushing legislation on how the United States should deal with Iran and its growing nuclear threat. We're going to talk to him about it. And also, as you may have heard, earlier in the show in our back and forth that you saw there with the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he said he's going to have lunch with the man who is going to be the next president of China. So, we're going to talk to him about that, too. Plus, something that we saw that was pretty fun today, we were at the Baptist Church in Newark where Whitney Houston, the funeral will be. We saw a sign that said, a budget, God's way. Perhaps that will help us solve the budget crisis. We'll talk about that with Lindsey Graham. Have a great night. Happy Valentine's Day. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now.	http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1202/14/ebo.01.html	<urn:uuid:24c4cb27-1746-4545-bf18-379b930ac5e4>	en	0.983334	0.053998
main index Topical Tropes Other Categories TV Tropes Org "Get Out of Jail Free" Card Heel face turners and Anti Heroes are often fascinating characters. They can add a level of grey, be someone who understands villain motivations, or provide a good source of angst. In a series with Cardboard Prison tendencies, it's a lot more of an effective way of ending a threat. However, the writers eventually have to explain, at least on a Hand Wave level, why this person isn't in jail or otherwise punished. The Morality Pet is a type of "Get Out of Jail Free" Card, as heroes wouldn't want to punish them as well. Sometimes it's explained that their service is a mandatory replacement to incarceration, or the condition of The Pardon. Other times, they're revealed to be one of The Chosen Ones. The underlying logic to this trope is probably twofold: one, a character in prison isn't a potential cast member, and two, if the only reward for turning away from the path of evil and towards good is to be sent to prison and punished, then why would anyone ever abandon evil if they're going to be punished either way? In other words, being allowed to remain free- tormented or not- is almost like a karmic reward for the new hero's redemption, a second chance. That doesn't mean they necessarily feel good about it. A subtrope of Saved by the Awesome. Contrast Karma Houdini, where no such explanation is given. This is the opposite of the "Go to Hell, Go Directly to Hell, Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200" Card. open/close all folders Anime and Manga • Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha has the Time Space Administration Bureau justifiably arrest Fate Testarossa for her actions during the "Jewel Seed incident." However, seeing as Fate was a minor, acted on the orders of an abusive and insane parent, never personally committed a major crime, and had expressed remorse and a sincere desire to repent, sympathetic officers were more than willing to represent her at her trial and were able to get off with only community service (i.e. working for the Administration). Which she was more than willing to do. One of these officers later adopted her. Her familiar Arf received similar treatment. • In the Oddly Named Sequel, the Wolkenritter get much the same treatment, as they were not responsible for the actions they were forced to undertake as slaves to an Artifact of Doom. They did get a much stiffer and longer sentence than Fate, though, because of their lengthy, unpleasant history with the Bureau, and their sheer power. It helped that they were now beholden to a moral little girl who was eager to join the Bureau. Oddly, in the third series their master Hayate would be blamed for the trouble caused by the "Book of Darkness," despite having been unwittingly and indirectly involved at most. Then again, the one doing the blaming was an unsympathetic General Ripper, who may or may not have simply disliked the fact that a "criminal" like Hayate was running a Mobile Unit and nosing around in his (illegal) affairs. • It also helped that actually revealing the facts of the Book of Darkness incident would have revealed corruption and maverick behavior at the highest levels of the TSAB, so the whole thing got brushed under the rug. • This escalating pattern of crime and consequence continues with the end of the third season, though it is no less tempered with mercy and love than the other occasions. Many of the younger Numbers Cyborgs who recognize their crimes and agree to seek rehabilitation are sent to a special ocean facility rather than prison, with Sein, Otto and Deed joining the Saint Church and Cinque, Nove, Dieci and Wendi joining the TSAB and being adopted by the Nakajima family. Agito gets a similar deal as Signum's new Unison Device, and only went to the rehabilitation facility to be with Lutecia. • Then again, the TSAB seems understaffed (see A's sound stage 2), so skilled mages are always welcome. • ViVid shows us one instance of a character who apparently refused the card; Lutecia is confined to what is probably the most luxurious Penal Colony in fiction, a bright and beautiful vacation world with no limits on communications, visitors, or delivered items. The only apparent restriction to her activities is that she's not allowed to leave the planet. Then again, Lutecia's circumstances were very similar to Fate's in the first season, having committed almost all of her crimes in the name of saving her mother and being told by a trusted adult that it was okay to do what she was doing. • Ken, the ex-Digimon Kaiser/Emperor, falls under several of these. First, he was one of the Chosen Children. Second, he had a Morality Pet, Wormmon. Third, he was affected by a Dark Seed. Last, and most importantly, he became The Atoner afterwards, seeking absolution from the main characters and the world itself before he could become part of the True Companions. It does take a while for the rest to forgive him, though; particularly Iori, who distrusts him, and is wary of his ability to change for a long time... and takes much fandom hate for that. • And also the fact that he never realized (at least in the dub) that the beings in the Digital World were real sapient creatures instead of just computer programs, he didn't know that he had actually been inflicting true harm instead of just playing a game. • Who wouldn't be convicted of mass theft at the very least if their video game crimes were suddenly revealed to be real. • In Spiral, Ayumu gains control of the tape with Rio confessing to murder, but Eyes threatens to tell the police about their criminal connections to his brother, Kiyotaka, if Ayumu tries to turn them in. Ayumu refuses, saying he'd prefer if it the entire world was after his brother so that he might actually, y'know, FIND him. Then Eyes points out that he might not mind, but isn't there someone else who would be deeply hurt by such a fiasco...? Not wanting to cause his sister-in-law any more pain, Ayumu reluctantly agrees. • In the anime Trinity Blood, Leon Garcia (a convicted murderer) is let out of prison on a quite superficial Hand Wave, whereupon he joins the hero team. • In the Manga and Novels, it's elaborated on, in that his sentence is ridiculously high, and he IS still in prison...but they let him out to carry out missions for him, and if he succeeds (read as survives, the missions are pretty dangerous), his sentence is reduced. When he's not doing stuff for them, he sits around in prison doing very little. • In Mahou Sensei Negima!, Kotaro has what amounts to a get out of jail free card after his second appearance. He helps Negi save the girls from Wilhelm, is granted his freedom, and proceeds to transfer to Mahora. Ironically, he had escaped from jail before he did this, so it was more of a Stay Out Of Jail Free Card. • In Fullmetal Alchemist, it is specifically stated when Scar has his Heel-Face Turn that he will not get one of these; they make him swear that he will turn himself in and face judgment after everything is over. He agrees, swearing on the only thing they know is truly important to him. It ends up being played straight as he is declared legally dead during the climax and returns to rebuild Ishval. It's pretty justified, though, as the vast majority of the cast are not exactly innocent themselves. • The Chrono Crusade manga has Chrono, who—after flying into an Unstoppable Rage and charges after the Big Bad, tossing cable cars with people still inside at him, setting part of San Fransisco ablaze and actually killing some people in the process, is held captive by the Order for some time and actually ordered to be executed. He just barely manages to escape punishment because (1) he needs to help Rosette find her long-lost brother, (2) he's obviously repentant and (3) he's able to prove to Father Remington that he's learned to control his temper. However, Father Remington goes against orders to help him escape, and official records state that he was actually executed. • Masao Kirishima, resident violent sociopath of Mars, can't be locked up for attempted murder in the end because he's still legally a minor and because he doesn't seem to have any memory of his victim. • In the end of the second season of Ghost in the Shell:Stand Alone Complex Gouda thinks that he has one. Unfortunately, Aramaki does not accept it. And has the Major shoot him with a volley of exploding bullets from an assault rifle in the middle of a hallway. • In Code Geass, Cornelia allows Villetta Nu to join the Black Knights since there are more important things to do than deal with her. It's never justified from the Black Knights' perspective, and seemingly the only reason she gets in is because she's hanging on Ohgi's arm. • Lampshaded in Soul Eater with Crona. Sid suggested he/she shouldn't be exempted from the usual punishments for crimes just because his mother told him to do it. Lord Death's reply it pretty much "Yeah, I don't know, let's just put it off and let the kid join the academy in the meantime." • The members of the Juppongatana who were captured during the Kyoto arc of Rurouni Kenshin were offered these in exchange for using their skills for the Meiji government. Most of them end up taking it. • Averted in Argento Soma, where Soma doesn't get off with just a slap of the wrist, and actually receives a pretty hefty sentence. Though he's not stripped out of his rank and actually is promoted while behind bars, continuing his career in the epilogue. • This happens a lot in the Queen's Blade franchise: Basically, any evil character who was defeated and manage to get this only gets a slap in the wrist. The three most notorious examples are Claudette after being defeated in Rebellion, since the card itself are the gods themselves. Werbellia, as the cards are her daughters, not to mention she was controlled against her will by the real Swamp Witch and Dogura in the Vanquished Queens OVAs, by Tomoe, despise all the crap he did, including destroying Hinomoto (Tomoe's homeland) and the only thing he got is being bitten in the ass by some wild squirrel at the end of the episode. The only exceptions to this rule are Delmore in the gamebook continuity and in the anime, Ramshel, Sushel and Weiss from the videogames and everyone from the Cult of Arunikuf from the Queen's Gate novels, and that's because all of them are killed, albeit Ramshel and Sushel came back from the dead in the sequel. • The anime Psycho Pass has this in the "service as a mandatory replacement to incarceration" variety. The Enforcers are latent criminals whose Psycho Pass exceeds the permitted levels; they can either serve as Enforcers and help fight crime (with their every move being supervised by the Inspectors, who have the option of disciplining them at will), or to be put into "therapy". Comic Books • Subverted in Thunderbolts, about villains becoming heroes. MACH-1, previously the Beetle, learns that for the Thunderbolts to be allowed to continue functioning, he must go to jail for a murder he committed. He does so willingly, and even sabotages a break-out attempt that would have included him. He's eventually given expedited parole for helping save the world multiple times. • Averted in the first run of Marvel Comics New Warriors. After Vance Astrovik, AKA Marvel Boy, is convicted of negligent homicide, he refuses to go along when his teammates try to break him out. Vance: I killed my father. Whether I meant it or not — and I didn't — I'm still responsible for the act. You can quibble about the law all you want, but I believe in the system, so I'm going to abide by it. • Gloriously used and subverted at the end of the Buck Godot Gallimaufry Cycle. Buck returns home and meets with someone to negotiate his 'tax duty', a type of community service (and, to make sure people are prompt, the longer you wait to check in, the exponentially worse the duty gets... and Buck's been gone a while.) Buck offers up a 'note', which turns out to be a message from the Prime Mover, the most powerful being in the galaxy. The note explains what Buck had been up to all this time - from finding a religious artifact to preventing multiple intergalactic jihads to stopping a civil war in the seat of galactic government to saving humanity itself from extinction, and would he please let Buck off the hook, thank you very much. Too bad it doesn't work. • In All Fall Down, Siphon gets one of these in the form of a Presidential Pardon. • In pre-Flashpoint Secret Six an actual "Get out of Hell Free" card played a key role in one storyline. Pretty much every member of the team and villains outside of the team wanted it because they knew they were damned. The trope is otherwise averted: the Six go back to being straight-up villains as the series draw to a close when they realize that the good they've done as a team of Antiheroes/antivillains can't save them from eternal damnation. • The end of Serenity has The Operative taking Simon and River Tam off of the wanted list after fixing the Serenity, and letting the entire crew go after they had just committed everything from vandalism to treason, not to mention the fact that River was tortured and driven insane by the Alliance, who The Operative worked for, to be turned into a psychotic psychic assassin, which her brother had freed her from (getting them on the wanted list). So, less "GOFJF Card" and more Get Out Of Being Hunted card (as even The Operative couldn't kill River if she wanted him dead). • At the end of Shooter, Swagger is set free by the Attorney General after the charge he was framed for, the assassination of an African archbishop, is proven false by the fact that the murder weapon could not have been used, thus he could not have fired it. This seems perfectly logical, but no one, not even the incognito Big Bad who was sitting right next to the war council, seems to address the fact that Swagger killed a number of men and caused untold amounts of property damage between the beginning of the film and now in his quest for vengeance. • In the Star Trek film series, the crew commit numerous crimes to help resurrect Spock such as forcibly stealing the decommissioned USS Enterprise, sabotaging the USS Excelsior, later destroying the Enterprise. To that, the whole idea of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is to create an opportunity so spectacular for the crew to save Earth that they could get off easy for the above charges. As it is, the only punishment is a token one of Admiral Kirk being demoted to Captain again for insubordination, even as the authorities understand full well he preferred that lower rank. • Clear and Present Danger: When Jack Ryan learns about Operation Reciprocity, an illegal war being fought in Columbia, he confronts Ritter with incriminating evidence. Ritter produces an "autographed get out of jail free card" in the form of written authorization from the President of the United States. The film treats this as applying to Ritter only, while the original novel states that this is for the CIA as a whole and anyone they recruited for said operation. • Lord of War Yuri is let out because he has one from the US Government. However, his closing narration admits that just because they find him useful out of jail for now, doesn't mean they won't just let him rot the next time • Gothika. Halle Berry's character wakes up in a mental hospital, with memory gaps, accused of murdering her husband. When we later find out that her husband had over the years abducted, raped and killed several young women from the area, and she murdered him upon finding out, she is set free. Despite having y'know, actually murdered her husband. • Stripes: Even though John Winger and Russell Ziskey stole the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle on their own accord, they get heralded as heroes upon coming home since they demonstrated its effectiveness against the Soviets and rescued their comrades who went after them. In contrast, the officer who ordered said men to recover the stolen vehicle gets Reassigned to Antarctica for his trouble. • In Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan novels, John Clark manages to get an actual "Get Out of Jail Free" Card when the president of the United States pardons him. The Teeth of the Tiger takes this to an extreme where before leaving office, Jack Ryan Sr. signs 100 blank Presidential Pardons for use by "The Campus". • In the Honor Harrington series, Kevin Usher, head of Haven's FBI-equivalent, asks for and receives a presidential pardon for any crimes one of his agents commits in running a "black" investigation of possible treason by the Secretary of State who manipulated diplomatic correspondence to engineer a crisis that would weaken the President as a rival, but instead accidentally sent his country back to war against Manticore. He refuses to take one for himself, saying that if the black operation is blown, he will be the cutout and take the fall. • In The Three Musketeers, Cardinal Richelieu gives one of these to Milady de Winter: "It is on my orders and for the good of France that the bearer of this letter has done what they have done." When the titular Musketeers kill Milady de Winter, they use that letter against Richelieu himself to keep from being punished for it. Live Action TV • Anyone who tried to punish Xena: Warrior Princess of her past warlord crimes were such fanatical Inspector Javerts that their technically true accusations were eclipsed. Or she saved everyone who wanted to punish her and they let her off. For a literal example of this, one episode had her tried for murder and sent to prison...only for it to be revealed that the specific person she had been convicted of killing was alive and well and running the prison she was in. Naturally, she was set free after all this was revealed. • Buffy the Vampire Slayer has several examples: • Willow murdered two people, tried to kill several more (including Dawn, Buffy and Giles) and nearly destroyed the world. Her punishment essentially amounted to a summer vacation in England to learn to control her powers. The whole "magic addiction" thing and losing her girlfriend Tara in the most gut-wrenching way possible were probably considered to be "extenuating circumstances", though one wonders if she ever saw a psychologist throughout that summer, like, ever. • In the early part of the series Faith committed crimes including murder... and eventually accepted the idea of going to jail, after trying to commit the Buffyverse equivalent of Suicide by Cop. At the end of the series, she escaped - which was admittedly justified since she had an attempt on her life made and had to join the team to save the world; there was no sign that she intended to go back to jail once the emergency was over, though and in the Season Eight comics she doesn't, and in fact her attempts to gain more permanent freedom outside the U.S. indicate she really did never plan to go back. This is partly justified, since she's still a Slayer, and therefore more useful to the world-saving forces of Good when on the outside, and owing to an ongoing redemption plot, but still... • Andrew murders Jonathan and is accepted as a member of the group with no punishment (aside from spending a few days tied to a chair and being initially shunned), and is never turned in to the authorities - even once it becomes clear to the group that he has no useful information to offer them. He ends up remaining as a (often hopelessly useless) member of the team in Season Eight, though his role there seems to largely be to create Plucky Comic Relief... which, come to think of it, makes it all the more disturbing in a way. • Spike after he was chipped counts as this. He couldn't physically hurt humans, but time and again he proved he was still dangerous. It got worse when he and Buffy got in a relationship, as stated above. • Everyone in Buffy gets a pass from all the others, because there is really no one to cast the first stone. They've all done it. This is pointed out in "First Date," when The First, as Jonathan, is trying to get Andrew to turn back against Buffy: The First: Really? Why? So you can earn a spot on her little pep squad? You think she'll ever let you in? You're a murderer. Andrew: Confidentially, a lot of her people are murderers. Uh, Anya and Willow and Spike.... • Angel strikingly, and given the context of the series rather bravely, decisively rejects the idea that simply because someone turns good they should get a karmic reward. Faith of course literally does go to jail (for a while at least) and in a later season Angel and Spike admit to themselves they probably are still going to hell for their past misdeeds. • In The 4400 April Skouris, the sister of main character Diana Skouris uses her abilities as a Living Lie Detector to blackmail people. True she helps bring down a big criminal conspiracy... but only out of revenge for the murder of her partner/boyfriend and fear for her own safety. Not only is she not punished for her blackmail, she is awarded a plum government job. And she is smug about it too. • The Wire has a literal "get out of jail free card" given to stick-up man Omar Little in return for testifying against a murderer. He's warned, however, that the card has its limits. When Little is wrongly imprisoned, he uses his card and other contacts to help him beat the charge. • The entire backstory of LOST's Kate is that she's on the run for murdering her stepfather (who was actually her father.) Yet in the flashforward to her trial, she ends up getting off with probation and time served, mostly due to Courtroom Antic. To those who like Kate, this was justified because her stepfather abused her mother and leered at Kate, and because Kate has Aaron to look after. To Kate's detractors, it was a Karma Houdini. • Star Trek: Voyager: The end of the show didn't make any reference to whether Tom Paris and all the Maquis would be pardoned for their crimes after they got back to the Alpha quadrant - in the alternate future of the finale they clearly were though, or at least let off with a proverbial slap on the wrist. • In Deep Space Nine: • All the Maquis were pardoned at the start of the Dominion War. The people on Voyager learned this when they regained communications. They actually had it explicitly mentioned, along with mourning for the Maquis members that died. • Tom Paris specifically was pardoned in exchange for going with Voyager and helping to search for the Maquis. Prior to that, he had already been convicted and sent to one of the Federation's (typically luxurious) prisons. • Actually, Janeway only promises to put in a good word with him at his "outmate review" (presumably parole hearing). So he's not technically in the clear either. • Averted in one episode, where Kassidy Yates (Sisko's lover) is revealed to be smuggling items (mostly organic materials, so food and medical supplies) to the Maquis, a terrorist group. When confronted by Sisko and the Defiant, she takes sole responsibility, leaving her crew with the Maquis and returning to the station alone, and she gets thrown in prison for nearly a season. • Played with in Stargate SG-1 episode "Cor-Ai", where Teal'c is put on trial by one of the worlds he helped to victimize as Apophis' First Prime. General Hammond balks at the idea of forcing the people of that world to release Teal'c because he really did commit the crimes he was accused of. Same with Vala later as she goes on trial for continuing planetary slave labour after her Goa'uld was removed. • For a series about a wrongly-accused man trying to clear his name, Renegade uses this pretty often. However, on one occasion, the lead helped a man accused of bombing a college lab, by finding the guy he supposedly killed. The end of the episode makes it clear that the falsely accused man has to do community service because he evaded arrest. • Sylar in Heroes is constantly backstabbing his allies, slaughtering innocents, and getting captured, but everyone is always ready to give him another chance, try to ally with him, or get into his pants. • 24 • Jack Bauer commits so many felonies every season that his name became synonymous with the torture of terrorist suspects during the 2008 American presidential election. Bauer escapes from punishment with the occasional slap on the wrist; but given how many times he's saved the country it makes sense. This is ultimately subverted in 24: Redemption, where it's revealed Bauer is being hunted by the US government so he can tried for his use of torture. Season 7 begins with him on trial for it. He is of course released from this by the end of the season, but the Senator who was prosecuting him is dead, and the new President has also come to appreciate everything Jack has done. • Nina gets a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card from the President in Season 2 for her past crimes. Then she asks for another one...for the future crime of murdering Jack Bauer. Jack tells the president to do it. • As does Mandy in Season 4. • Parodized in Reaper with its "Get Out of Hell Free" card. • Bartlet's final act as President in The West Wing was signing a pardon for Toby Ziegler. • Every Power Ranger that started out evil, got one of these after their Heel-Face Turn. Normally the reason was they were under mind control (of one sort or another) and wouldn't have done the actions otherwise. The only exceptions to this have been when the ranger was lied to and believed they had a reason to hold a grudge against the heroes. • A Law & Order episode has Lenny Briscoe bribe a reluctant informant with his business card - saying that he should show the cop that card the next time he gets pulled over for speeding. • In the Monk episode "Mr. Monk Takes the Stand," with Monk pitted up against a Chewbacca Defense lawyer, there is a brief clip where said lawyer appears on a talk show and the hostess describes his business card as being the equivalent of a Get Out of Jail Free Card, rendering him a "Mr. Monopoly". • Mentioned in the very first episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, when Benson and Stabler let the murderer go without any sentence at all. Cragen: You just used your "Get Out of Jail Free" card on this case, Olivia. There's only one in the pack. • Lex Luthor from Smallville practically walks around with this plastered on his forehead, since everyone can tell that he's up to something yet they rarely make the effort to stop him. • In the Canadian crime series Intelligence (2006) no one would ever get arrested even when they fully expected to be. Usually Vancouver's Organized Crime Unit would beat the police in identifying and locating serious criminals, all who would typically ask, once cornered, to call their lawyers. "Well, that's one option," they would invariably be told. Of course, the other option was to activate the get out of jail free card by becoming a Confidential Informant. And not only would they escape jail, they were allowed to continue their criminal enterprise and even expand it. • In the CSI: Crime Scene Investigation episode "Willows in the Wind", while Catherine and Ted are on the run (not from the law - some assassins hired by an arms manufacturer are after the former) they "pay" a hooker who helps them out with Ted's business card (which can presumably be used this way). Later on, her pimp provides them with a gun and disposable cell phones and also gets one for his trouble. Ted: This is a get-out-of-jail-free card. Don't abuse it. Newspaper Comics • Subverted in the comic strip Broom-Hilda, when Broom-Hilda was put on trial for her latest crime spree and found guilty. The complete idiot Irwin Troll, acting as Broom-Hilda's lawyer, tries to get her off by handing the judge a Get Out of Jail Free card. The trope is subverted when Irwin's ploy fails. Actually, the subversion is subverted, because this is just a dumb comic strip where no action has any real consequences ... so, in the next day's strip, Broom-Hilda is out of jail anyway. Tabletop Games • The trope namer is Monopoly, which features two actual "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards. Oddly enough, this trope namer ends up subverting the trope - Monopoly jail is a Cardboard Prison that only requires you to roll doubles, pay $50, or use said card to get out. Furthermore, since people in jail can still collect rent and trade properties without fear of paying rent to others, staying in jail as long as possible is a good late-game strategy. In fact, players are required to leave jail after three turns whether they want to or not, whether by rolling doubles, paying the $50 bail, or playing the card. (A common HouseRule is to disallow a player in jail collecting rent.) • Back in the 70's, the Harvard Lampoon put out an issue that dealt with cheating. Included in this issue was an article with materials for cheating at Monopoly including a fake Chance card that sent you to Jail for Life. If things got too bad in the game you could palm this card and go to Jail, and since you still collected rents, you would eventually win, although it might take a long time. Video Games • Max Payne goes on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge in the first game of his series in which he guns down hundreds of assorted mafiosi and drug pushers. Not only does he not spend a single day in jail for any of this, but he's still on the NYPD payroll in the second game. It's implied that Alfred Woden and his "Inner Circle" pulled strings to keep Max a free man. Since Woden stands for Odin in the game's Norse mythology theme, it's no surprise that he's got the power to pull off such a feat. In the second game, Max is actually haunted by the fact that he escaped punishment. • Subverted in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. When the player character becomes Sheogorath, prince of madness, it is impossible for him to be imprisoned within the Shivering Isles; the guards will instead escort you outside the city limits and leave you to go off adventuring until you can pay the fine (or not). This sometimes leads to the less then amusing glitch of having a fine considered by the game to be too large to be payed off with no option to serve your sentence (that is, your crimes being so heinous the only option is immediate attempted execution by the arresting guard or jail.) making walking through most towns feel reminiscent of any given level from Splinter Cell. • In the first Baldur's Gate, having Shar-Teel in your party guarantees you a "Get out of Jail Free" Card from her father Angelo Dosan. You may be innocent. • In Mass Effect 2, one method you can use to "solve" a hostage situation is killing the hostage yourself in plain view of the local law enforcement. They don't react at all. Granted, you're a (possibly former) Spectre, basically a covert agent reporting directly to the highest level of government, but you're out of favor with them, and you'd expect security to at least react. • As for the person who attempted to assassinate the person and took him hostage when that went south, you can convince the security leader to put him to work helping homeless kids on the Citadel rather than pressing charges which would almost certainly lead to jail time. • In the Spyro the Dragon reboot trilogy, Cynder was the Big Bad that had inflicted massive amounts of pain and suffering on everyone and very nearly unleashed the Ultimate Evil. Once she turns good, she's not punished due to the justified reason she was Brainwashed and Crazy the entire time. However, its inverted because, while the dragons forgave her, most of the other types of creatures sharing the land don't and she even has a hard time forgiving herself. • Red Dead Redemption has pardon letters, which are a Get Out Of Paying A Buttload Of Money Card. • You can get one of these in Grand Theft Auto II by scrapping a police car, which lets you keep your weapons the next time you get busted. • Fallout: New Vegas has this as a plot point. Before you hit the main plot of the game, you can gleefully set about killing members of both primary factions (Legion and NCR), which will naturally make them want to kill you. As soon as you reach the Strip and talk to Benny, both factions immediately pardon you of any crimes because you're an asset they want on their side. • But only once. If you proceed to laugh in their faces and continue the slaughter then they'll quickly become your enemy again, this time for good and locking off their endings permanently. • Dark Seed has a very literal one, given to you by the local attorney. Its use is required to complete the game, as you need to put some items in the real world jail to access them in the Dark World jail, but can't waste a night in the cell without rendering the game Unwinnable. • The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim allows you to become thane of all the holds in the region. This in turn allows you to commit a crime and demand to be let go because you are the thane, even if that crime is multiple murder. • Averted in It's Walky!: at least two characters who could break out of any jail ever made with ease willingly submit to imprisonment for their anti-social actions. • In Sinfest, Slick is gifted by Monique a "Get out of Hell free card" just before the Devil decides to take him. It actually gets him out of Hell, despite him having sold his soul to the prince of lies somewhere like 2,600 strips earlier. • The Adventures of Dr. McNinja: Dr. McNinja made a deal with the state police because as a vigilante he has to do things prohibited by law. If he reaches his offices and declares "BASE!" he's immediately cleared of all charges. • After Galatea make a brief but quite sincere attempt to conquer the planet Butane, Princess Voluptua pardons her (partly for helping to capture Riboflavin, and partly because Bob vouches for her) with the understanding that Bob will keep her out of further trouble. • Referenced in this Order of the Stick strip. • When former-assassin Tanica in The Dragon Doctors is returned to human form from being stuck as a tree for years, she fully expects Inspector Blue to arrest her on the spot. Blue does show up almost immediately, but only queries Sarin about how Tanica once went after her with a knife; all other possible charges are dropped, as none of Tanica's previous assassination missions have any sustainable evidence or outside testimony linking her to them (the signature style of her cabal was to use invisibility suits and knives for maximum stealth). Web Original • In Worm, standard procedure for villains who become heroes is for them to serve a probationary sentence on a superhero team, generally under house arrest in the heroes headquarters when not on deployment. The logic seems to be that, if they're the sort of villain who can become a superhero, they'll probably be more secure surrounded by superheroes and Cape Busters than in a medium-security prison. Western Animation • Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender : Several cards are considered after his Heel-Face Turn when he applies for Sixth Ranger. Toph plays the Freudian Excuse Card ("Considering his messed-up family and how he was raised, he could have turned out a lot worse."), Zuko plays the Pet the Dog card ("I've done some good things. I could have stolen your bison in Ba Sing Se, but I set him free."), and Aang plays the Enemy Mine card from "The Blue Spirit". Katara, on the other hand, still doesn't trust him, because he has "struggled with doing the right thing in the past" and makes it clear that if he switches sides again, she'll put an end to his trips through the Face Heel Revolving Door by putting an end to him. • A few weeks after the Heel-Face Turn he takes the Fire Nation throne, so anyone outside the Gaang or the White Lotus that might have a grudge against him could do precious little about it. • Dumb and Dumber: Harry and Lloyd were about to be thrown at a volcano when Harry produced a "Get Out of Being Thrown At a Volcano Free" card. He was allowed to leave but Lloyd still needed rescuing. • In a Family Guy episode, Brian held Mayor Adam West hostage after he outlaws gay marriage, and forced him to make it legal again. He succeeds, and he isn't even arrested. However the point of the episode was to show that gay marriages are right. • Brian does get a nice big What the Hell, Hero?, though. • Oddly enough, since he was dealing with Mayor West, he had to use a Get Out Of Jail Free...Key to a Volkswagen Scirocco. • The alternative was letting Adam West get away with outlawing gay marriage in the first place just to distract the public from a budget scandal for which he was completely responsible. In fact, the reason West was so forgiving is precisely because Brian's actions provided a good distraction, rendering his initial one unnecessary. • Averted in an episode of The Powerpuff Girls, in which Rainbow the Clown is accidentally bleached and becomes a mime who steals all the color and sound from the world. When the girls restore Townsville and convert him back to his happy self with a combination of The Power of Rock and Rule of Cool, they still take him down violently and ship him to prison. The episode left a bad taste in the mouths of many fans. But this ending was dictated by Executive Meddling and was not what creator Craig McCracken intended initially. • Averted in another episode where the Powerpuff Girls were arrested for crimes committed by crooks wearing Powerpuff Girls disguises. They break out of prison and beat up the criminals, then get congratulations from the Mayor - right before he says that they're going back to prison for breaking out of prison. Announcer: "So, once again, the day is saved - thanks to The Powerpuff Girls! See you on visiting day, girls!" • This even goes back to the second pilot, "Crime 101." The girls are so believable at showing the Amoeba Boys how to commit a bank robbery that they're arrested for it. The judge hearing the case thinks it's a lie until the girls actually plead guilty (Blossom silently and tearfully repeats it when the judge's jaw drops). Just as the judge is about to pass sentence, the Amoeba Boys appear with the bank money. The girls are cleared. • Wish Kid: Nick literally used that card to get out of jail. He used the card to reach a lock so he could open a door. • An episode of Danger Rangers had an aversion- a group of people spilling chemicals into the lake were told by Scottland Yard would not get one of these for what they had done, along with illegally dumping household chemicals into trash bins. Real Life • This is an explicit power held by most Heads of State/Government. In the past, Kings and Emperors who held absolute powers (as opposed to the defanged constitutional monarchs of today) had as many "get out of jail free cards" as they wanted. Sort of Diplomatic Impunity in your own country. The general rules of various countries include: • Neither the Swedish monarch nor the Prime Minister has the explicit power to issue a pardon, but the Swedish Cabinet as a whole does. • In America, it is common for outgoing presidents to issue a hurricane of pardons to protect their various friends from whatever nefarious deeds they committed during the president's term. • Richard Nixon received a pardon from President Ford to protect him from prosecution after his resignation. There was some uproar afterwards (and it remains a controversial move), but in general the action was done to simply move on and stabilize the government. • Several staffers involved in the Iran-Contra affair got this treatment by George H.W. Bush upon his ascent to office, although they committed the crimes under Reagan. Reagan was implicated and then cleared, so either he wasn't in the mood for pardoning the people who almost screwed him over or he didn't want to look suspicious for being lenient, depending on how much he actually knew about the proceedings, which is still unclear. • While nothing ever actually came of it, it was noted at the time that there was one person allegedly involved in Iran-Contra that George H.W. Bush didn't issue a pardon to: himself. • In fact, a Presidential pardon actually has a great deal of power; it is stated under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment", which means a U.S. President can pardon or reduce the sentences of almost anyone he wants. Of course, most don't abuse this right with regards to important cases, and many pardons are granted posthumously. (One notable example was Jimmy Carter's unconditional pardon of all Americans who illegally evaded the draft during the Vietnam War, which was lucky for Bill Clinton.) • Charles Manson once no-showed at a parole hearing, sending the actual Monopoly game card to the parole board instead. Everyone knows that he's never going to get paroled. • If (in California at least) you are in jail and, included with your mail, you get a note saying something like "Game piece not permitted inside facility," it means that someone has tried to send you a Get Out Of Jail Free card. • Apparently common in Ancient Greece. In the dialogue Crito, the title character points out that not only can he pay off the guard and let Socrates leave but that if he fails to do so people will consider him dishonorable for not rescuing his friend. • Indulgences were a method in medieval Catholicism of skipping penance for confessed sins. They can thus be seen as "get out of purgatory free" cards. Particularly corrupt priests would not only sell these indulgences in exchange for cash donations, they'd falsely advertise them to their usually-illiterate parishioners as not just allowing them to skip penance for their sins, but as providing preemptive forgiveness for future sins. In other words, they claimed to sell "get out of hell free" cards. While this misuse of indulgences was never condoned by the church hierarchy, it was widely ignored by them, which was a major part of how Protestant Christianity came into existence. Forgiven But Not ForgottenHeel Face IndexGo and Sin No More Generic GraffitiNarrative DevicesGetting Hot in Here Do Not Pass GoImageSource/Tabletop GamesRiches To Rags Forgiveness Requires DeathA Forgiving IndexGo and Sin No More For HappinessMorality TropesGolden Moment Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from Privacy Policy	http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GetOutofJailFreeCard	<urn:uuid:8f61d3d4-467e-484d-8672-1af16cd6723f>	en	0.978438	0.058937
Search Images Maps Play YouTube News Gmail Drive More » Sign in 1. Advanced Patent Search Publication numberUS3559269 A Publication typeGrant Publication dateFeb 2, 1971 Filing dateNov 15, 1968 Priority dateNov 15, 1968 Publication numberUS 3559269 A, US 3559269A, US-A-3559269, US3559269 A, US3559269A InventorsHubert A Schmitt, Jagdish S Sekhon Original AssigneeBoeing Co Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet High-impact portable riveting apparatus US 3559269 A Previous page Next page Description (OCR text may contain errors) Feb. 2, 1971 H. A. SCHMITT ET AL HIGH-IMPACT PORTABLE RIVETING APPARATUS Filed Nov. L5, 1968 'I5 Sheets-Sheet 1 `nc Power souRcE ,4 "In Dc POWER 5d 3M .SOURCE Fm/D 220 gmk sa/0M Feb. 2, `1971 H, A, sCHMrr-r AET AL 3,559,269 HIGH-IMPACT PORTABLE RIVETING APPARATUS Filed Nov. L5, 1968 5 Sheets-Sheet 2 Feb. 2, 1971 H. A. SCHMITT ETAL HIGH-IMPACT PORTABLE IVETING APPARATUS Filed Nov. L5, 1968 3 Sheets-Sheet 5 Aw/ A25/mv @muy /A/ 302 ,4L/Mm AUX /69 Jig/30% READY l /79 303 cf/W65 3%? @L E i l l l /Z @Weka/PMB l 570/9 /w//v CHA/65D h mms/70H5.- A/f A 5MM/77 M60/5H s. SEA/#0N SAM WW United States Patent O U.S. Cl. 29-243.54 16 Claims ABSTRACT F THE DISCLOSURE A high-impact tool is disclosed as part of a ram component of an electro-mechanical gun, as shown in FIG. 1, which converts a rapidly changing electric current passing through its coil into a mechanical force acting between a conductor plate on the ram and the coil to propel the ram and its forming surface against a workpiece to form it. A pair of portable electro-mechanical riveting guns, as shown in FIGS. 3-7, is described along with an electrical system, shown in FIG. 8, which interlock-s their operation to insure a simultaneous ram impact on each end of the rivet. The power supply, for operator safety, is isolated from ground as it discharges through the coils. A system, shown in FIGS. 5n7, for proper gun alignment is disclosed wherein increased back-pressure of fluid or gas outlets, blocked by proper gun positioning against the workpiece, operates control switches permitting tiring of the guns. BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION This invention relates to apparatus for mechanically forming material and relates more particularly to a singleimpact portable riveting apparatus. DESCRIPTION OF THE PRIOR ART In modern manufacturing operations there are many requirements for tools suitable for forming workpieces in a minimum time at a reasonable cost. Oftentimes the workpiece is quite large or already installed on a larger structure thereby establishing a requirement that the forming tool be portable so that it can be brought to the workpiece. In the situation where metal parts or other high-strength materials need to be formed, the high energy requirement for the forming tool seems to dictate the need for a massive tool size. To produce high-quality structures it is important that the forming operations involved in fastening the structures together be of a high degree of uniformity. In normal riveting processes wherein high-impact forces are required, these are generally applied by means of a repeated series of blows from the riveting tools against the rivet. Such rapid cycling of the impacting tool against the rivet puroduces a high noise level which becomes intolerable to those in the immediate vicinity after a short duration of exposure. Such noise fatigue reduces worker production and morale. From the foregoing it is apparent that there is a need for a portable, high-impact tool which can be operated to produce a predictable and repeatable high-energy impact against workpieces with a minimum of noise. In manufacturing operations involving the use of electrical tools wherein high currents and voltages are involved, shock hazards to the operators often prevent the wide use of such tools. Thus there is a need for means Patented Feb. 2 1971 ICC which will reduce the shock hazard for operators of equipment utilizing surges of high voltage electric current in their operation. For froming processes involving high forces applied in opposite directions to the workpiece the misalignment of the tools applying the forces may cause damage to the workpiece because of undesired distortion thereof. In addition the workpiece may be flexed and bent if the impacts on opposite sides do not occur simultaneously. Thus there is a need for means which will insure the proper alignment and simultaneous operation of high impact tools. OBJECTS AND SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION In view of the needs related above it is the principal object of the instant invention to provide a generally improved high-impact workpiece-forming apparatus. It is another object of the instant invention to provide a high-impact apparatus having adequate components for producing workpiece-forming forces, but of a light enough construction to permit portability. Yet another object of the instant invention is to provide in the electrical system for a high-impact tool a means for precisely controlling the impact force to yield repeatable predictable and highly uniform workpiece-forming operations. A further object of the instant invention is to provide a generally improved single-impact riveting apparatus utilizing opposed rivet-driving tools and having an electrical system wherein the impacton one end of the rivet by one of the pair of guns is at substantially the identical instant that the other end of the rivet receives an impact from the other riveter. A still further object of the instant invention is to provide in a portable high-impact tool a workpiece alignment sensing system which through suitable controls prevents the operation of the tool when it is improperly positioned relative to the workpiece. It is another object of the instant invention to provide a control system which prevents an operating connection between an electrical energy source and a plurality of electrically operated tools until each of the selected set of said tools is in the proper operation alignment position and their respective operators are ready for the operation to take place. A still further object of the instant invention is to provide a mans for isolating the electrical energy source for a high-impact tool during the operating cycle of its electrical components to thereby reduce the shock hazard for the tools operator. In accordance with the present invention a workpiece-forming ram member is propelled against the workpiece through the interaction between an electrically conductive surface of the ram and an electrically conductive coil when the coil carries a rapidly changing electric current. The apparatus in addition provides a guiding structure for the ram such that its workpiece-forming surface will be guided in its movement as the ram moves. A recoil mass includes and reinforces the coil moving with it in an opposite direction to the movement of the ram. The recoil mass is resisted in its movement by a recoil absorbing system. A restoration spring may constitute the recoil absorbing system as well as a mechanism for repositioning the recoil mass to its initial position adjacent the ram, awaiting another surge of rapidlychanging current through the coil. In a riveting operation two such apparatus are positioned to oppose one another such that the ram of one riveter moves in the exact opposite direction to the ram of the opposed riveter. A series connection between the propelling coil in one through the propelling coils, lthe supply of electric energy foi the .current is isolatedfrom ground so that the operators body ydoes not become a part of the circuit due .to an insulation breakdown. 't To provide p'roperalignment betweenV the path of the ram tand the `workpiece being riveted, a plurality of channels is formed in the working end of the portable riveting guns. The outlets of the channels are formed in the end of the gun positioned in contact with the workpiece in' .an array around the opening through which the rivet extends. Fluid or gas under pressure is supplied to th channels and exits from the outlets. The blocking of the outlets by theworkpiece or its support, wl1en the gun is properly aligned, increases the backpressure on the fluid to a preset value which is sensed by a pressure-sensitive switch in communication with the channels. As the back-pressure reaches the amount which indicates that all of the outlets are blocked and lthe gun and workpiece are in proper alignment, the pressure switch is cycled providing a signal to the controls that the gun is in proper alignment. These and other features and advantages of the invention will become more clearly apparent from the following detailed description thereof, which is to be read with reference to the accompanying drawings. FIG. l is a diagrammatic view, with portions shown in cross section, of a generalized embodiment of a highimpact apparatus made in accordance rwith the instant invention; FIG. 2 is a diagrammatic view similar to FIG. l but showing a simultaneously operated opposed pair of riveters made in accordance with the instant invention; FIG. 3 is a side elevation view illustrating a riveting system utilizing an opposed pair of portable riveters made in accordance with the instant invention; FIG. 4vis an isometric view, with some parts broken away for clarity, illustrating one of the portable riveters shown in FIG. 3; PIG. 5 is a schematic view of theworking end'portion of the riveters shown in FIG. 3 illustrating the'structure and con-trol circuit for the alignment system made in accorda-nce with the instant invention; FIG. 6 is an end elevation view, taken from lines 6-6 of FIG. 5, illustrating `the working end of one of the riveters; FIG. 7 `is an enlarged sectional view of one outlet of the alignment system as seen from lines 7--7 of FIG. 6; FIG. 8 is a schematic view illustrating the electrical system lfor the riveting system shown in` FIG. 3. DESCRIPTION oF THE PREFERRED EivnsoDIr/IENTS To provide a general understanding of the working principle of the several embodiments of the instant invention, reference is directed initially `to the generalized embodiment of impact toolll illustrated schematically in FIG. 1. As shown, power supply 3 iswconnected to coil 10 which is structurally `supported by recoil system 20. In the ,initial position as shown in solid lines, ram 35 is positioned adjacent coil working face cover 13 so that the rams workpiece-forming member 40 is properly positioned for forming workpiece 45 supported through workpiece holder 47 by frame strong-back member 50. Coil 10 may be formed of a continuous ribbon of conductive material such as at copper wire and pro- -tected by nonconductive cover ,13 positioned at its working end. Central terminal 11 of coil .10 `is connected to power supplyV 3 by discharge lead 8 and outer terminal 12 is .connectedto-power supply -3 by means of discharge lead 9.Power supply 3 also includes power source 4 which is connected through charging leads 6 and normally closed control switch4 7 to' variable capacitor 5, Once ,it is desired that the charge stored by capacitor 5 be Vpermitted to discharge through coil 10, control switch 7 is actuated toits dashed line position to connect dischargingnleads 8, .r9 to `both sides of,l capacitor 5. The quantity of electric' energy is controlled for reliable repeatability of the impacts by varying the voltage stored Iby variable capacitor 5. Although power supply 3 is described with reference to a control switch 7, it should be understood that normal switches and relays would not be used for high current switching and that thyratrons are represented herein by switches for simplicity. Surrounding the recoil end of coil 10 is a reinforcing structure which, along with the weight of coil 10, is referred to generally as recoil mass 15. As shown, rod member 17 projects in a first direction, as shown by the arrow 19, from coil 10 toward recoil absorption system 20. Fluid motor25 houses piston 26 which is fixed to rod 17 and slides along cylinder 2-'7 formed within fluid motor 25 to cause pressure fluid 28 to be compressed and forced around piston 26 as recoil mass 15 causes the rod 17 to move in the first direction 19 from the solid line position to the dashed line position. To restore recoil mass 15 including coil 10 to-its solid line position from the dashed line position, restoration spring 30 is positioned to sur round rod v17 and act between recoil mass 15 and fluid motor 25. Ram is configured so that it includes a conductive surface, such-as conductor plate 37, having asize substantially equal to working face cover 13 of the coil 10 and is positioned initially adjacent to cover `13. As coil 10 is subjected to the discharge from capacitor 5, the rapidly changing electric current causes a repulsion between coil'10`and conductor plate 37 of ram 35, Vthereby propelling recoil'niass 1S vincluding coil 10 in first direction 19 while. ram 35 is propelledin a second direction, yshown by arrow 38', directly opposite to first direction 19. Ram l 35 includes stem member 39 extending from conductive plate 37 in second direction 38 and terminating at workpiece-forming member 40, which is shown as being chiselshaped. Member 40 maybe joined to stem 39 by a detachable connection, such-that various sizes and shapes of workpiece-forming members 40 can be utilized. For simplicity workpiece hasbeen` shown as a simple stock member held in holder 47 `which extends upwardly from frame `strong-back 50. Also rigidly connected to strongback 50 is an upright structure forming ram guide.52 throughwh'ich the ram stem 39 extends. At the recoil end ofk apparatus 1'` there are positioned upright backstop members 54`secured at their lower ends to frame strongback' 50 and connected through suitable pin connectors 55 to fluid motor 25. i Inoperiation, the initial condition for embodiment 1 is shown in solid lines. Capacitor 5 is charged by means of its rconnection through charging lead 6 to a suitable power source 4. Coil 10 is positioned adjacent to conductor plate '37`of ram'35. Workpiece 45 is held in a discharging leads 8 and 9 into coil 10 to produce a rapidly changing electrical current. A repulsion force between conductor plate 37 and coil 10 is developed of such a magnitude that ram 35 is propelled in second direction 38 with such force that workpiece 45 receives a tremendous impact from workpiece-forming member 40 positioned at the working end of ram stem 39. At the same time recoil mass is subjected to a recoil force opposite to that propelling ram 35, such that recoil mass 15, including coil 10, moves to the dotted line position shown. This movement compresses restoration spring 30 as well as pressure fluid 28 trapped between the piston 26 and cylinder walls 27 of fluid motor 25 until the recoil energy has been absorbed. At this time restoration spring 30 restores recoil mass 15 to its initial solid line position with the ram 35 reaching its initial position as it rebounds from impacting workpiece 45. If a higher impact force is required variable capacitor 5 is changed to increase the voltage on the capacitor. In a like manner, if a lesser impact is needed, a lesser voltage will be stored by variable capacitor 5. Once a desired impact force has been obtained, the system can be recycled with very good repeatable and consistent forming results being obtained. It has been found that one manufacturing operation, namely riveting, can be performed utilizing the principle of operation wherein a rapidly changing electric current in an adjacent coil is utilized for propelling the conductive surface of a rivet forming ram to form the rivets in a single impact. Such an operation reduces the noise of multiple impact riveters to that of a single impact. In addition the exact control available for producing impact repeatability obtained through the use of an adjustable power supply, results in improved and more uniform structural fastening. As an example of one suitable riveting system utilizing this principle, reference is directed to FIG. 2 wherein second embodiment high-impact system 60 is shown Power supply 63 is substantially identical to power supply 3 of the embodiment 1 shown in FIG. 1. It includes power source 614 which is capable of charging variable capacitor 65 through charging leads 66 when control switch 67 is in the solid line position. Power supply 63 is used to provide a rapidly changing electric current to both left and right-hand opposed riveters `68 and 69. Left-hand riveter 68 includes coil 70 which is connected to power supply 63 by means of discharge lead 72 connected to its center terminal 74. Right-hand riveter 69 includes coil 71 which is connected to power supply 63 by means of a discharge lead 73 attached to its center terminal 75. The outer terminal 76 of coil 70 is connected to outer terminal 77 of coil 71 by means of series connector 79. Coil 70 of left-hand riveter 68 is protected by insulated working surface cover 82 and surrounded by recoil mass 86 which extends to a first direction, as shown by arrow 84, from working surface cover 82. A friction surface 88 on recoil mass 86 makes contact with support surface 90. A resisting force F is schematically shown by arrow 92 pushing recoil mass 86 in the second direction, as shown by arrow 85, directly opposite rst direction 84. In a similar manner right-hand opposed riveter 69 protects its coil 71 by working surface cover 83 and recoil mass 87 which extends from the working surface 83 in second direction 85. Recoil mass 87 includes a friction surface 89 supported by support surface 90 and a right-hand resisting force F schematically illustrated by arrow 93, is shown pushing recoil mass 87 in rst direction 94. Immediately adjacent to working surface cover 82 of the left riveter 68 is positioned conductor plate 98 of ram 96. At the opposite end of ram 96 is positioned the workpiece-forming tool shown as rivet die 102 secured to the ram stem 104. The movement of ram 96 is guided by means of ram guide 108 through which passes ram stern 104. A rivet 111 is shown in the path of rivet die 102 as its is moved in second direction 85. Rivet 111, at its other end, is in the path of rivet die 103 positioned at the end of ram stem 105 of righ-hand ram member 97. Initially ram 97 is positioned with its conductor plate 99 immediately adjacent working surface cover 83 of coil 71. The purpose of rivet 111 is to securely fasten together structural sheets 112 and 113 once it becomes formed by riveters 68, 69. In operation rivet 111 is simultaneously deformed by receipt at its opposite ends of the simultaneous impact of rams '96 and 97 due to the simultaneous electric current flow through coils 70 and 71. This current ow is caused by the operators movement of control switch 67 from its full line position to its dashed line position, whereat capacitor 65 discharges through coils 70 and 71 simultaneously because of the series connection provided between the coils by means of series connector 79. The rapidly changing electrical current causes the repulsion of ram 96 in second direction 85 and ram 97 in first direction l84 such that rivet 111 receives a simultaneous impact at each of its ends through the contact with rivet dies 102 and 103 against it. The recoil of left riveter 68 is ab sorbed by recoil mass 86 as the friction between friction surface 88 and support surface 90 absorbs a certain amount of the recoil energy while resisting force 92 is applied in second direction to absorb the balance of the recoil energy. Similar recoil absorption occurs in righthand riveter l69 as friction surface 189 slides along support surface and resisiting force 93 is applied in first direction 84 directly opposite to the recoil direction of recoil mass `87. Once riveters 68 and 69 have reached equilibrium, resisting forces 92 and 93 are utilized to reposition coils 70 and 71 adjacent conductor plates 98 and 99 of respective rams 96 and 97. The repositioning of control switch `67 to its solid line position initiates the charging of capacitor 65 by means of power source 64 through charging leads `66. 'From this operation rivet 111 is properly deformed to securely fasten together structural sheets 113 and 112. While the first two embodiments, 1 and `60, of high-impact tools have been shown in installations wherein the apparatus is mounted on a tool bench or other base support structure, the balance of this disclosure relates to a portable riveting system which can be taken to the workpieces being joined rather than requiring them to be brought to the bench. As shown in FIG. 3, portable riveting system 120 includes power supply 123 having a power source 124 connected to a variable capacitor 125 through charging leads 126 when the control switch 127 is in the full line position shown. The left-hand gun, which will be hereinafter referred to as main gun 130, is positioned opposite to right-hand or auxilitary gun 131. Main gun 130 includes coil 132. The center terminal 134 of coil 132 is connected to the power supply 123 by means of discharging lead 136. The outer terminal 138 of main coil 132 is connected through series connector 140 to the outer terminal 139 of auxiliary coil 133 positioned within auxiliary gun 131. Center terminal of auxiliary coil 133 is connected by means of discharging lead 137 to power supply 123. The main operator 142 is indicated in dotted lines as he applies first resisting force 148 to resist the recoil acting in the first direction, shown by arrow 144. In a similar manner auxiliary operator 143 applies a resisting force 149 to oppose the recoil of auxiliary gun 131 in the second direction, indicated by arrow 145. In normal usage the quantity of resisting forces 148 and 149, ranges between 20-35 pounds and is therefore easily within the capability of most operators including female operators. To avoid worker fatigue vertical supports 150 and 151 are used to hold up main and auxiliary guns 130 and 131. Through the utilization of counterbalance pulleys 152 and 153 suspended from overhead support 155 operators 142 and 143 can easily maneuver main and auxiliary guns 130 and 131 with the minimum of effort. In the construction to be described in greater detail hereinafter, portable guns, such as main gun 130, have been constructed having as little weight as 35 pounds and with additional equipment more recent modelsl weigh less than 75 pounds. In a simplified form FIG. 3 illustrates the use of workpiece support 157 having a clamp 1518 for securely holdingworkpiece sheets 160 and 161 in a convenient position for the placement against the sheets of Working end 162 of main gun 130 and working end 163 of auxiliary gun 131. It is of course understood that different shapes, sizes, and locations of workpieces may require the operators to position their guns 130 and 131in something other than the horizontal plane shown in FIG. 3. For example, the plan in which both guns 130 and 131 lie might be vertical or inclined from either the vertical or horizontal plane as necessary to properly install the rivets into the workpieces. For a more detailed description and appreciation of the features involved, reference is directed to FIG. 4 wherein a larger showing of main gun 130 illustrates its major internal as well as external structural components. For simplicity main gun 130 utilizes a cylindrical housing 165 which is closed at Athe rear end by closure plate 167. Attached to closure plate 167 is a pistol grip 1'68 which accommodates one hand of operator 142 for easy operation of trigger switch 169 mounted thereupon. To make the necessary electrical connection between the power supply 123 and main coil 132 a power cable connector structure 171 is slidably supported on gun housing 165 in a manner which permits power cables 172 attached to connector 171 to be rapidly cycled rearwardly as coil 132 recoils. Additional guidance and operator control of main gun 130 is provided by side handle 174 which extends radially outwardly from gun housing 165 and includes in the body portion a series of control and indicator elements. These include auxiliary ready light 175, main alignment light 176, red charged light 178 mounted within the transluscent charge button 179, and green discharge light 1'81 mounted within green transluscent main stop button 182. It should be noted that charge button 179 and stop button 182 are conveniently positioned for actuation by the operators thumb as he steadies main gun 130 with the balance of his hand. While the working end 162 of main gun 130 will be described in greater detail with reference to FIGS. -7 it should be noted that it also includes an alignment uid conduit 184. Mounted within housing 165, which is typically constructed of nylon or lightweight material coated with an insulating material, ram 1185 is positioned adjacent to and congured for guidance through working end 162. Conductor plate 1186 is attached to ram 185 such that it is positioned adjacent the working face cover 1:87 and coil assembly 188. In addition to the coil assembly 188, additional weight is provided by material extending rearwardly from coil assembly 188 to form recoil mass 189. The outer peripheral surfaces of coil assembly 188 and the balance of recoil mass 189 slides along the inner surface 191 of housing 165. Biased between rear end cover plate 167 and recoil mass 189 is positioned an absorptionrand restoration spring 192. To permit easy egress of air which might be otherwise trapped within the chamber formed within housing 165 between recoil mass 189 and rear end cover plate 167 there are provided rear end air vents 194 defined by and projected through end cover plate 1'67. Although they are not shown, working end 162 of ,main gun 130 may also include forward air vents to permit easy exit of the air displaced by ram 1185 as it is propelled away from main coil 132. Because main and auxiliary guns 130 and 131 arev independently positionable by their respective operators 142 and 143, an alignment system 200 as shown in FIGS. 5-7 is provided to insure proper alignment so that the axis of the rivet being driven by the guns is coincident with the paths of the respective rams. As best shown in FIG. 5, forward end 162 of main gun 130 is positioned such that main die 202 secured to the end of ram stem 204 contacts on e endjof,rivet 201. The opposite end of rivet 201 is contactedby auxiliary die 203 which is secured to auxiliary ram Astem 205. The working surface 206 of main gun is positioned in contact with the exterior surface 210 of workpiece sheet and working surface 207 of auxiliary gun 13 17is positioned in contact with the exterior surface 2-11 of workpiece sheet 161. Alignment channels 212 and 213 are formed in the working ends 162 and 163 of guns 130 and 131 to provide a pressure medium passage between main and auxiliary alignment outlets 214 and 215 and fluid or gas supply 220 through conduits 184 and 221. The fluid or gas under pressure from supply 220 is conducted through supply conduits- 184 and 221'as they pass through adjustable restrictors 222 and 223 and pressure sensitive switches 224 and 225. The restrictors cause a pressure drop in conduits 18,4 and, 221 when the fluid or gas flows. O-ring seals 216 and 217 are positioned, as shown in FIG. 7, in alignment outlets214 and 215such that as the working end 162 is positioned with working surfaces 206 in flush contact with working surface 210, O-ring seals 216 prevent the escape of the fluid or gas under pressure. This blocking of the outlets 214 stops the gas or uid ow through restrictor 222gand thus eliminates the normal pressure drop resulting in the supply pressure being sensed by pressure switch 224 causing it to close. When switch 224 is closed the electrical leads 228 and 230 carry the electric current from electrical potential 227, causing the lighting of main alignment light 176. This light remains lit as long as proper alignment is maintained with all of outlet 214 remaining blocked. In a similar manner O-rings 217, positioned in outlets 215, will cause an increase in pressure in alignment channels 213 when auxiliary gun 131 is positioned with working surface 207 in flush contact with workpiece exterior sheet 211. Thisincrease in pressure causes the actuation of auxiliary pressure switch 225, which through the electrical circuit established from electric potential 227 and electric leads 229 and 231, causes auxiliary alignment light 177 to become lit. ' It'sh'ould be noted that any pressure medium could be used as an indicator of alignment. Good success has been obtainedby using a generally available plant low-pressure air supply. As will be described with reference to the electrical system shown in FIG. 8, working coils 132 and 133 of the main and'auxiliary guns 130 and 131 can not be `energized if either of the alignment pressure indicating switches 224 or y225 are open. Y -JFIG. 6 illustrates the array of outlets 214 positioned in Working surface 206 of main gun 130. Although some `alignmentinformation could be obtained by the use of a single outlet,a more reliable and more accurate alignment is represented by the blocking of a plurality of out- `lets with three or four being preferred. Somewhat greater detail as to the design of specific outlet 214 is shown in FIG. 7 wherein it is noted that alignment channel 212 lopens into the outlet v214 which is surrounded by O-ring 'flush with exterior surface 210 of workpiece sheet 160. Because th'e rivets currentlyin use in aircraft-industry requirestremendous forces to be adequately formed for.. fastening aircraft structures, it is necessary to provide very high voltages in the power'supply and to conduct very high currents from the power supply to working coils 132 and 133. -In a typical installation the charge on capacitor 125, mayvary between LOGO-10,000 volts, producing a current between 12,000 and 30,000 amps yielding 7,500- 118,000 joules as the charge on capacitor 125 is discharged thyroughthe coils 132 and 133 in from 20D-300 microseconds. p v lIn view of the objects related above with regard to the interlocking operation between main and auxiliary guns 130 and 131, reference is now directed to FIG. 8 for a detailed description of the operating electrical system which provides the necessary means for obtaining the related objects. In essence the electrical system includes control circuit 287 shown in the upper portion of FIG. 8 which is interrelated With the power supply circuit 123 shown in the lower portion of FIG. 8. Control circuit 287 is basically a low voltage system wherein the input voltage is provided in circuit A by means of the electrical potential 227 establishing negative lead 289 and positive lead 290 when the system start switch 288 is closed. The condition of the electrical system shown in FIG. 8 is that in which power supply capacitor 125 is being charged. The sequence of operation therefore requires that initially the system start switch 288 is closed establishing the electrical potential between negative lead 289 and positive lead 290. Circuit B is activated when the power supply charged coil 292 pulls closed the power supply charged switch 293. This is indicated on the main gun by the lighting of the charged light 178 and on the auxiliary gun by lighting the auxiliary charge light 295. Circuit C becomes activated when the power supply has been discharged causing the power supply discharged coil 297 to pull closed the power supply discharge switch 298. This then is indicated on the main gun by the lighting of green light 181 and on the auxiliary gun by lighting the green light 299. With reference as necessary to the discussion of the alignment system shown in FIGS. -7, it should be noted that circuit D of FIG. 8 is actuated first by the closing of auxiliary pressure switch 22S which indicates that the auxiliary gun is aligned by lighting the aligned light 177 on the auxiliary gun. The auxiliary operator 143, when he is ready, will actuate the ready trigger switch 301 which will be indicated on the main gun by lighting the auxiliary ready light 175 if auxiliary gun 131 is aligned closing switch 225. When the main gun is aligned, pressure switch 224 becomes closed lighting main gun aligned light 176 on the main gun and main gun aligned light 302 on the auxiliary gun. When all of these conditions of circuit D have been met and the main gun operator 142 is ready he will close ready trigger switch 169 Awhich will energize ready coil 304 sending a ready-to-tire signal 312 to the power supply 123. As previously indicated the condition shown in FIG. 8 is that of charging of the power supply capacitor 125. Circuit E represents the means by which the depression of main gun charge button 179 will energize charge coil 308 to send a charge signal 326 to power supply 123 as long as the power supply charge switch 306 is not pulled open power supply charge coil 292 of circuit E. It should be noted that Circuit E is directly related to Circuit F in that the closure of either main stop button 18-2 or auxiliary stop switch 309 will open charge switch 179 of circuit E, and in addition will energize stop coil 310 sending a discharge signal 323 to power supply 123. With continued reference to FIG. 8 and particularly the power portion thereof it is noted that power supply circuit 123 has been schematically illustrated as being interconnected by means of signals to the control system 287. Basically, however, the power supply 123 includes variable capacitor 125 which is shown as being charged by means of a closed connection provided by charging leads 126 from AC power source 321 through main line charge switch 327. Once capacitor 125 has reached the desired charge a power supply charged signal will be supplied to coil 292 and control circuits B and E as noted above. In circuit E the actuation of power supply charged coil 292 opens power supply charge switch 306 which deenergizes charge coil 308 sending a reverse charge signal 326 which opens mainline charge switch 327 dicontinuing the charging of power supply capacitor 125. When all of the switches of circuit D have been closed the ready signal 312 will serve to close firing switch 127, opening grounding guillotine switch 3.14 and open discharge disconnect switch 320. While these operations have all been indicated as being performed by switches, they would most likely be performed by high voltage thyratron tubes useful in making and breaking circuits wherein high voltages are involved. In sequence, however, the opening of discharge disconnect switch 320 isolates AC power source 321 from any connection with power supply capacitor since the other side of AC power source 321 was opened by means of opening main line charge 327 which occurred upon reaching the desired charge of capacitor 125. The opening of grounding guillotine 314 isolates both sides of the output terminals 317 from ground and both sides of power supply 125 from ground. This is particularly important since the isolation of the charged power supply capacitor 125 from ground reduces the shock hazard to operators 142 and 143 since the potential on opposite sides of capacitor 125 is no longer related to ground and this condition exists during the short time in which the charge potential on power supply capacitor 125 is discharged through main coil 132 and auxiliary coil 133. The discharging of the power supply through coils 132 and 133 is simultaneous since the coils are connected in series by series connector 140. Once power supply capacitor 125 has been discharged through working coils 132 and 133 the power supply charged coil 292 is no longer energized, permitting closure of power supply charge switch 306 in circuit E. If neither of the stop buttons 182 or 309 of circuit F have been closed then circuit E is completed causing the energizing of charge coil 308. This causes a charge signal 326 to pull closed main line charge switch 327. When either or both of the trigger switches 169 and 301 have been opened, the reverse ready signal 312 causes the restoration of the discharge disconnect switch 320 to its normal closed position permitting the charging of capacitor 125. At the same time grounding guillotine switch 314 reestablishes the reference to ground 315 for power supply capacitor 125 and tiring switch 127 resumed its normal open position. We claim: 1. A high-energy impact apparatus comprising: coil means adapted to be connected to an electric energy source for generating a rapidly changing energy iield adjacent to said coil; ram means including a conductor plate and a workpiece-forming tool; recoil means including said coil and a body member extending in a lirst direction from said coil; frame means including a backstop member and guide means for guiding the movement of said ram means from a first position whereat said conductor plate is positioned adjacent said coil to a second position whereat said forming tool impacts a workpiece as said energy field changes propelling said ram away from said coil in a second direction opposite to said first direction; absorption means positioned between said backstop member and said recoil mass for resisting movement of said recoil mass in said first direction and including restoration means for restoring said coil to said first position adjacent said ram conductor plate. 2. The apparatus of claim 1 wherein: said absorption means includes a spring biased between said -backstop member and said recoil mass. 3. A riveting apparatus comprising: a pair of riveting guns; conductor means extending between each of said guns; each of said guns including a rivet-forming ram, electromechanical means for receiving a rapidly changing electric current and converting it into mechanical energy for propelling said ram toward a rivet and operator control switch means for indicating that said gun is ready for receiving said current, one portion of said conductor means providing an electrical connection between said electrical connection between said electro-mechanic means of each of said guns for ensuring7 simultaneous operation of said guns once both of said operator ready indications are maintained. 4. The riveting apparatus of claim 3 including: control means for operating said guns; a second portion of said conductor means providingl a connection between each of said guns and said con-` trol means for transmitting said gun-originated indication of being ready to said control means; said control means including iiring switch means connected between an electrical energy source and said electromechanical means, requiring the ready indication from both of said paired guns before permitting said rapidly changing electric current to pass through said electromechanical means of each of said guns. 5. The riveting apparatus of claim 3 including: y power supply means and power cable means connected both of said ready indications andthe lack thereof, permitting and preventing the communication between said guns and said power supply means. 6. The riviting apparatus of claim 3 including: power supply means and power cable means connected between said power supply means and said guns for supplying said rapidly changing current thereto; control means operatively connected among said guns and said power supply for selectively permitting and preventing the communication between said guns and said power supply means; said control means including ready means responsive to receipt of said operator-ready indication; said guns each including means for signalling the proper gun to workpiece alignment condition; said control means including alignment means responsive to receipt of said gun alignment signal; said control means being structured to permit said communication between said power supply and said guns whenever both of said guns are properly aligned and said operator control switches indicate as indicated by the condition of said ready and alignment means and to prevent said communication whenever any one of said desired alignment or ready conditions is not indicated by said ready and alignment means. ' 7. The riveting apparatus of claim 3 wherein: each of said guns also includes an alignment-sensing means having means for sensing the relative attitude of the path of said ram and the surface of the workpiece adjacent the hole in which the rivet is positioned; said alignment means including alignment switch means adapted to prevent said indication of said gun ready condition at least until a preselected attitude of said ram path and workpiece surface has been reached. 8. The riveting system of claim 7 wherein: V said sensing means includes a plurality of pressure fluid channels provided in the ram end of said gun with outlets thereof formed in the surface ofsaid gun adapted for ilush contact with said workpiece f said outlets include a compressible seal member positioned therein toextend around said outlets for providing, when compressed against said workpiece, a lfluid-tight seal. j 10. The riveting apparatus of claim 3 wherein: one of said guns include means for sensing the proper alignment of said gun with said workpiece; said alignment sensing means includes means for signalling said proper alignment; second portion of said conductor providing means for communicating said alignment signal from one gun to the other of said guns; indicator means positioned on said other gun and connected with said second conductor portion for indicating on said other gun the alignment of said first gun. 'l -11., The riveting system of claim 10 wherein: said conductor means includes a third portion for providing means for communicating the condition of said other gun; ' said other gun includes second indicator means connected with said third conductor portion for indicating on said other gun condition of said one gun operator control switch. 12. An impact tool apparatus comprising: gun means including coil, ram and guide means; said coil means providing means for generating a rapidly changing eld; said ram means including a conductor plate and workl piece plate and workpiece-forming tool; vsaid guide means providing ram guidance as it is prosaid floating ground means including connections with isolation switch positioned in said charging and discharging means and responsive to the firing position 5 ofsaid firing means for isolating said power supply v means from said charging and discharging means; said tiring means providing a connection and disconnection` between said coil means and said power Vsupply means for supplying a rapidly changing current to said coil means, with said connection being `established when said firing means is in said firing position. 13. The apparatus of claim 12 wherein: said gun means also includes alignment and operator `ready indicating means; said ring means including connections with said gun alignment and ready indicating means for preventing positioning of said firing means in said iiring position until said indicating means indicates the desired alignment and readiness conditions for said gun. 14. The apparatus of claim 12 wherein: said floating ground means operates to disconnect said power supply from said charging and discharging .means before the tiring connection between said 15. The apparatus of claim 12 wherein: power supply and said coil is completed. said gun means includes a discharge actuator for said discharging means permitting said operator to discharge said power supply into said ground. 16. The apparatus of claim 12 wherein: said gun means includes a charge actuator for said charging means permitting said operator to cause said connection between said energy source and said power supply. References Cited UNITED STATES PATENTS 1,232,050 7/1917 Kraemer 318-135X 14 2,920,783 1/1960 Kipp et al 29-243.53 3,453,463 7/1969 Wildi 173-117X FOREIGN PATENTS 1,122,153 1/1962 Germany. JAMES M. MEISTER, Primary Examiner U.S. C1. X.R. gyg UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE CERTIFICATE 0F CORRECTION Patent No. 3 559 269 Dated Behr-Ham! 2 192] Inventor(s) H. A. Schmitt et al It is certified that: error appears in the above-identified patent and that said Letters Patent are hereby,r corrected as shown below: Column ll, Line l should read --trical connection; Column ll, Line +4 should read --and said operator v control switches indicate ready as in- Column l2, Line 5 should read --one of said guns includes means for sensing the proper; Column l2, Line 30 should read --said ram means including a conductor plate and; Column l2, Line 3l should read workpiece-forming tool; column 12, Line 73 Should read --power Supply and said C011 is completed." Column l2, Line 74 should read l5. The apparatus of claim l2 wherein: Signed and sealed this 20th day of July 1971. (SEAL) Attest: EDWARD M.FLETCHER,JR. WILLIAM E. SGHUYLER, JR. Attesting Officer Commissioner of Patents Referenced by Citing PatentFiling datePublication dateApplicantTitle US3811313 Dec 18, 1972May 21, 1974Boeing CoElectromagnetic high energy impact apparatus US3824824 Apr 17, 1972Jul 23, 1974Grumman Aerospace CorpMethod and apparatus for deforming metal US4122988 Oct 17, 1977Oct 31, 1978Rohr Industries, Inc.Pierce rivet machine US4128000 Sep 28, 1977Dec 5, 1978The Boeing CompanyElectromagnetic high energy impact apparatus US4132108 Sep 28, 1977Jan 2, 1979The Boeing CompanyRam assembly for electromagnetic high energy impact apparatus US4151735 Sep 28, 1977May 1, 1979The Boeing CompanyRecoil assembly for electromagnetic high energy impact apparatus US4862043 May 27, 1987Aug 29, 1989Zieve Peter BLow voltage electromagnetic pulse actuator US5231747 Dec 21, 1990Aug 3, 1993The Boeing CompanyDrill/rivet device US5263236 Jan 10, 1992Nov 23, 1993The Boeing CompanyDrill quill bearing assembly US5280673 Feb 21, 1992Jan 25, 1994Electroimpact, Inc.Electromagnetic bolt insertion system US5398537 Dec 6, 1991Mar 21, 1995Gemcor Engineering CorporationLow amperage electromagnetic apparatus and method for uniform rivet upset US5404633 Jan 10, 1992Apr 11, 1995The Boeing CompanyMethod of dynamically supporting a drill quill in a drill/rivet machine US5577315 Jun 6, 1995Nov 26, 1996The Boeing CompanyMethod of upsetting rivets US5621963 Jun 6, 1995Apr 22, 1997The Boeing CompanyDifferential capacitance in an electromagnetic riveter US5685058 Jun 6, 1995Nov 11, 1997The Boeing CompanyMethod for direct insertion of a headed rivet into a countersunk hole US5752306 Jun 6, 1995May 19, 1998The Boeing CompanyMethod for upsetting a headed rivet by differential initiation of opposed electromagnetic rivet drivers US6481092Feb 26, 2001Nov 19, 2002The Boeing CompanyElectromagnetic coil, and method and apparatus for making same US6823709Aug 6, 2002Nov 30, 2004The Boeing CompanySynchronized rivet gun system US6830173Aug 24, 2001Dec 14, 2004Senco Products, Inc.Impact device US6918325 Aug 19, 2003Jul 19, 2005Wing Wide (Hk) LimitedElectric wrench for vehicle repairing US8316524Apr 1, 2009Nov 27, 2012Lemieux David LRivet fastening system WO2004012881A1 Jul 28, 2003Feb 12, 2004Boeing CoSynchronized rivet gun system U.S. Classification29/243.54, 173/117, 318/130, 318/114 International ClassificationB21J15/24 Cooperative ClassificationB21J15/105, B21J15/24, B21J15/28 European ClassificationB21J15/10B, B21J15/28, B21J15/24	http://www.google.com/patents/US3559269?dq=oakley+5,387,949	<urn:uuid:a93b9f8e-c8f4-413e-8010-0d6c80e88175>	en	0.934288	0.018967
Search Images Maps Play YouTube News Gmail Drive More » Sign in 1. Advanced Patent Search Publication numberUS3582336 A Publication typeGrant Publication dateJun 1, 1971 Filing dateJul 18, 1967 Priority dateJul 18, 1967 Publication numberUS 3582336 A, US 3582336A, US-A-3582336, US3582336 A, US3582336A InventorsRasmusson Ben E Original AssigneeRasmusson Ben E Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet Method of preparing oil-milk-sugar clad cereal particles and the resulting product US 3582336 A Previous page Next page Description (OCR text may contain errors) United States Patent O 3,582,336 METHOD OF PREPARING OIL-MIL -SUGAR CLAD CEREAL PARTICLES AND THE RESULTING PRODUCT Ben E. Rasmusson, 12510 SE. 62nd Place, Bellevue, Wash. 98004 No Drawing. Continuation-impart of application Ser. No. 555,810, June 7, 1966. This application July 18, 1967, Ser. No. 654,058 Int. Cl. A231 1/10 US. CI. 99-83 8 Claims ABSTRACT OF THE DISCLOSURE Prepared cereal particles clad with an oil-milk-sugar mix, wherein a proteinaceous constituent in the form of toasted, fried, and/or expanded cereal particles is enveloped or coated with a cladding constituent having a melting point in the range of from about 96 F. to about 110 R, which cladding constituent is at least principally comprised of substantial amounts of hard butter vegetable oil, milk solids, and sugar or a sugar substitute, and being applied to the cereal particles only superficially, the cereal particles thereby being in substantially noncrushed condition. Food products of the invention can comprise a relatively small amount of cladding constituent so as to leave the final product in flake or loose form in a manner characteristic of boxed breakfast cereals, or suflicient cladding constituent can be applied to render the product in fixed form, i.e. bar-like. Optionally, such food products can incorporate one or more additional ingredients such as an emulsifier, salt, flavoring, an antioxidant, vitamin and mineral additives, and the like. In general, the oil-milk-sugar cladding constituent imparts to the prepared cereal particles a sweet, creamlike taste when eaten, which is comparable to that of a breakfast-type prepared cereal to which both sugar and fluid milk have been added. This taste simulation results either when the food product is eaten in dry form, or with water added. CROSS-REFERENCE TO RELATED APPLICATION This application is a continuation-in-part of my copending United States patent application Ser. No. 555,810, filed June 7, 1966, and entitled Automated Forming of Molded, Non-Refrigerated Food Products, Feeder Mechanism Therefor, and Products Formed Thereby. BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION Field of the invention This invention relates generally to cereal based, readyto eat food compositions, and methods of making such compositions. Prepared cereal particles such as dry breakfast cereals and the like, having a charactersitic toasted, fried and/ or expanded (i.e. puffed) form and characteristic taste depending on the cereal grain source and the manner of preparation of the particles, are clad with an uncooked adherent coating which is in solid form at normal room temperature and which has a melting point at about body temperature. Such cladding adherent is essentially comprised of so-called hard butter vegetable oil, milk solids, and a sugar or sugar substitute, and optionally includes salt or other flavoring or texturizing constituent, emulsifying agents, anti-oxidants, vitamin and mineral additives, and the like. Description of the prior art So far as is known, there are no prior non-refrigerated, ready to eat, oil and milk bearing, prepared cereal type food products wherein the cereal particles are sweetened ICC and cream-like and retain the characteristic uncrushed form and taste imparted by the manner of preparation of the cereal particles (i.e. the crisp, fragile nature thereof), and which allow one the convenience of eating the product without necessity of having to add fluid milk, cream or the like thereof to simulate a fresh cereal in milk product taste. Matz US. Pat. No. 2,824,806 discloses a compressed food product involving cereal type ingredients With binder additives, the compositions being compressed into bar form to provide a food product of the type commonly used for military field rations. In such a product, the cereal particles become severely compressed and crushed, and become substantially impregnated with the bindner additives. As is well-known, the taste and desirability of this type of product leaves much to be desired, primarily because of its crushed nature and the thorough impregnation of the cereal by the binder constituents. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION In general terms, the present invention is directed to a food composition comprising a cereal constituent made up of toasted, fried and/or expanded prepared cereal particles, such as so-called breakfast food cereals, having a characteristic form and taste imparted by the manner of preparation of the prepared cereal from cereal grain. In accordance with the invention, such cereal particles are clad with an uncooked oil-milk-sugar cladding constituent. Such cladding constituent is applied to the cereal particles in generally fluid condition, having been preheated above its characteristic melting point (about 96 F. to about 'F.). Such cladding constituent at least principally comprises hard butter vegetable oil as the fluidifying ingredient, with a relatively high content of dry milk solids, preferably non-fat dry milk solids, and adequate sugar or sugar substitute to provide the desired sweetened, cream-like taste in the final product. In addition, various optional ingredients can be employed, such as an emulsifier, salt or other flavoring, an antioxidant, vitamin and mineral additives, and the like, as desired. Optional additional solid constituents can be dried fruits, freeze-dried fruits, nuts, nut meants, bacon bits, dried meat particles, and the like. It is among the features of the invention to provide a pleasant tasting cladding constituent for prepared cereals and the like, which is comprised of an oil-milk-sugar mixture and which is stable on storage. Cladding of dry pre; pared cereal type aggregates with this constituent produces pre-prepared and ready-to-eat food products of the breakfast cereal type, either in flake or loose form as commonly characteristic of boxed breakfast cereals, or in preformed bar form. Products of the invention, thus constituted, can be eaten without any fluid milk added or without other further preparation, either in dry form or with simply water added, and without addition of sugar or sweetener, or without use of utensils such as bowls and spoons, if desired. Also, properly packaged products of the invention are storable indefinitely in non-refrigerated storage. As used herein, the term proteinaceous, toasted, fried and/or expanded or puffed cereal particles, or the like, means any of the wide variety of dry, cereal grain based food products available commercially, such as corn flakes, puffed corn, toasted oat cereal, toasted rice cereal, puifed rice, toasted rice, whole bran cereal, Whole bran cereal with wheat germ, bran flakes, wheat flakes, puffed wheat, shredded wheat, wheat germ, French fried noodles, French fried corn meals, and mixtures or combinations thereof, for example. Known protein fortifiers such as soy flour can also be employed in the course of preparation of the cereal constituent, if desired. The hard butter vegetable fats or glyceridic oils used in the binder base are types which are free of lauric acid. Suitable lanric acid-free vegetable oils or fats include corn oil, cottonseed oil, olive oil, palm oil, peanut oil, rice bran oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, and mixtures thereof. These oils are treated, as by hydrogenation, interesterification, or fractional crystallization, so as to stabilize the oils and modify their melting points consistent with the desired melting point temperature range of approximately 96 F. to 110 F. In practice of the invention, the hard butter vegetable oil melting point is selected generally in accordance with the climatic conditions in the geographical region in which the product is to be stored and used, with relatively higher melting points being used in products intended for storage and use in hotter climates. The cladding agent, which otherwise might be termed an encasing or enveloping agent, forms only a superficial sheath or encapsulation of the cereal particles, without substantial impregnation thereof, so as to not destroy the inherent form and taste of the cereal particles. Such cladding constituent has a relatively high content of dry milk solids to provide, in conjunction with the oil content of the cladding constituent, a taste simulation which is cream-like in character. With the sugar ingredient thereof, the composite cladding constituent provides simulation of both a cream-like taste characteristic and a sweetened taste characteristic which are very palatable. Functionally, the cladding constituent, being at least principally comprised of the oil with the dry milk solids and sugar or sugar substitute additives, functions as what might be termed a taste carrier, whether the final food product is in loose form or in bar form. Further, the cladding constituent, being applied to essentially all exposed surfaces of the cereal particles, functions as a moisture sealant to safeguard the cereal particles against increase in moisture (i.e. against loss of crispness) and against oxidation. In the case where the final product is in fixed, bar-like form, sufficient cladding constituent is present to function as an interparticle binder, filling the particle interspaces substantially completely and thus providing the characteristic fixed form of the product. In the case where the final product is in loose or flake form, the cladding constituent also serves as an adhesion agent for optional, subsequently applied dry ingredients, such as in the case where the oil-milk-sugar cereal particles, after solidification of the cladding constituent, are dusted or superficially dry coated with instant soluble milk powder, powdered sugar and the like, the subsequently applied powder in this instance being principally adhesively retained by the cladding constituent and being nonetheless available (in the instance where the dry coating comprises milk powder) to dissolve instantly in added water so as to simulate the appearance of fluid milk. Since it is desirable to avoid graininess in the cladding constituent, all dry powder incorporated therein should be refined to the smallest practicable particle size. The milk solids as incorporated in the cladding constituent are preferably spray-dried skim powder, i.e. non-fat dry milk solids. Optionally, the dry milk solids can have included therewith a proportion of spray dry powdered whey from cheese manufacture, if desired. Casein or so-called nondairy imitation milk solids also can be employed as or included in the dry milk solids, within the context of the present invention. The sugar used in the binder preferably should be finely powdered sucrose, such as 6X or X grades of :highly refined manufacturers type sugar. If desired, dextrose type sugar can be substituted for at least a portion of the sucrose. In the context of the present invention, the sugar constituent can also include or consist of corn syrup, molasses, brown sugar, invert sugar, honey, or malt syrup, simply by way of further example. Artificial sweeteners can also be employed, if desired. For the flavoring ingredient, vanillin and ethyl vanillin are preferred if the end product is to have a milky or cereal-like character. However, other oil soluble imitation flavors can be added to provide the end product with any desired milk, fruit, nut, or candy-like flavor. Salt is preferably added to enhance the flavor and to reduce the oily taste. The salt should be refined to a 44 micron size or siftable through a 325-mesh sieve. An emulsifier, generally lecithin, may be added in a small quantity as shown by the following tables. In addition to lecithin, there are several other products which may be used, including polyoxyethylene esters of higher fatty acids, triglycerides of fatty acids, mono and diglycerides and the palmitates of sorbitan. In a manner conventional per se, the food compositions of the present invention can also comprise an anti-oxidant such as BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) or BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene). Also in a manner conventional per se, various vitamins and minerals in prescribed amount can be added to food compositions of the present invention, such as thiarnin (F1), riboflavin, niacinamide, pyridoxine (B6), Vitamin B12, ascorbic acid (C), iron, lysine, vitamins A-D in vegetable oil, iron phosphate, sodium acetate, glycine, calcium carbonate, tricalcium phosphate, sodium ascorbate, and the like, for example. A typical formulation for the cladding agent is shown below. TABLE L-GLADDING CONSTITUENT (Using hard butter only) Broad range, Preferred, percent percent by weight by weight Sugar, refined (or p0wdered) 48-60 52-55 Hard butter vegetable oils. 25-35 28-31 N on-fat dry milk s01ids.. 10-20 13-17 Flavor (artificial) 0. 1-0. 2 0. 1-0. 2 Salt 0. 1-0. 2 0. 1-0. 2 Emulsifiers 0. 25-0. 75 0. 5-0. 7 BHA anti-oxidant 0. 000-0. 006 0. 002-0. 004 TABLE II.CLAD DIN G CONSTIT UENT (Using hard butter with giyceride limpid oil) Broad range, Preferred, percent by percent by wt. wt. Sugar, refined (or powdered) 48-50 52-55 ard butter vegetable oil 23-35 28-31 Limp l 0-3 9&2 Non-fat dry milk solids 10-20 12-16 Flavor (artificial) 0. 1-0. 2 0. 1-0. 2 Salt 0. 1-0. 2 0. 1-0. 2 Emulsifier... 0. 25-0. 75 0. 6-0. 7 Anti-oxidant 0. 000-0. 006 0. 002-0. 004 Added after tempering completed or just prior to use offinlshed mix, the limpid oll tends to serve as solvent like-carrier for the hard butters creating a smoother more cream-like (non-waxy) taste characteristic. Typical formulation ranges of the final mixture of binder and food aggregate is as follows: TABLE III.CLAD AGGREGATE (BAR TYPE PRODUCT) (Using expanded crisp rice) Broad range, Preferred, percent by percent by wt. wt. Cladding 60-80 70-72 Aggregate.-. 20-40 28-30 TABLE IV.CLAD AGGREGATE (LOOSE TYPE PRODUCT) (Using expanded crisp rice) Broad Preferred range range Cladding, percent by wt 10-40 15-30 Aggregate, percent by wt 60-90 70-85 Dry milk particles subsequently dusted onto clad aggregate 0-15 1 8-10 first melted to a temperature of 130 F. to 140 F. in a thermostatically heat controlled mixing tank. As an optional practice, seed fat, approximating about 2% to 4% of the total fat content, may be withheld in which event it is not melted initially but is added later. The temperature is then reduced to approximately 115 F., and the emulsifier, 50% of the lecithin, and all dry ingredients are added to the melted fat and mechanically blended at about 115 F., using care not to overheat and cook the milk constituents. Such blending is continued for a period of time sufficient to ensure complete dispersion and wetting of all ingredients. Since the powdered dry milk solids, sugar and salt are not wholly soluble in the fats of the mixture, it is desirable to finely pul-verize these ingredients sufiiciently to prevent graininess. This may be done by processing the blended mass through a conventional 5-roll refiner. After refining the mix is reheated, if required, to about 115 F. and pumped to a mixing tank where, under controlled temperature, it is mechanically mixed by moderate agitation for to 12 hours. If the optional seeding" procedure is practiced, the seed portion of the fat and lecithin are then added. The finished mixture is then pumped to a holding tank or to shipping containers. If the cladding agent is to be used directly, it is tempered at about 110-115 F. for at least about 30-40 minutes prior to use, whereupon the aggregate is added and under thermostatic control the temperature is reduced to near the solidification or setting point of the mixture, determined by the preselected melting point of the hard butter. In practice, the temperature must be held at that point which will keep the mass plastic, but will not be warm enough to cause the binder to run freely off or be adsorbed into the enrobed aggregate particles. An alternative procedure, for making the milk base cladding agent without a refining process, eliminates the need for the 5-roll refiner and instead requires the use of prerefined powdered or pulverized dry particles with a particle size comparable to 325 mesh screen, i.e. approximately 44 microns, or smaller. In this method, the hard butters are melted at 130-140" F., then cooled at 115 F. Other ingredients are then introduced and all ingredients are thoroughly blended at about 115 F. for 45 to 60 minutes or sufiicient to insure complete dispersion and thorough wetting of all ingredi ents. If stored prior to use, the cladding mixture is preferably tempered for 30 to 40 minutes at about 115 F. and then held at that temperature until used. To achieve mixing without damage to the relatively fragile aggregates, a heated trough and mixing screw conveyor is used. The blades of the conveyor must be suitable to ensure both thorough mixing and delivery of the cladding agent and aggregate to the production line without damage. The heated trough, usually water-jacketed, is maintained at about 100 F. to 115 F. throughout the mixing and delivery process with its temperature carefully regulated to ensure full plasticity of the cladding constituent near the melting point of the hard butters being used. It has been found more advantageous to mix the dry, solid aggregate into the warm, fluid cladding agent, rather than vice versa. The fluid cladding agent serves as a lubricant to ensure movement of the dry aggregate throughout the mixing procedure without damage to or crushing of the particles. The fluid cladding agent and solid particles are fed into the mixing conveyor at a measured and/or regulated flow rate, such control being effected by any of various suitable techniques, including visual observation with manual or automatic control of pump speeds, etc. or by mechanically controlled measuring and/or weighing devices which accurately match flows of ingredients with production speeds. One or more vibration type dispensing hoppers can be installed above and along the infeed end of the screw mixer. With the dry ingredients thus being added to the wet, fluid binder, the ingredients are gently tumbled over and over as they progress through the screw nnxer. .After the tho-roughly blended mixture of solid particles and cladding agent leaves the mixer conveyor, the mixture is then elevated to the hopper of a filling, proportioning, or dispensing device, such as disclosed in my co-pending application 555,810. It has been found, if elevation is required, that screw-type elevating conveyors can severely damage the fragile cereal aggregate. Bucket-type conveyors can be used but are not preferred. In practice, the best elevating method has been found to be an edged rubber or neoprene belt having raised laterally extending sections or flights which serve both to carry the mixture upwardly and forcibly transfer the material off the belt as the sections or flights course the uppermost pulley 0f the conveyor. In this instance, depending upon ambient room temperature, it may be necessary to keep the moving belt warm. Heat is readily applied by mounting infrared heat lamps on the conveyor chassis. As mentioned above, it is important to keep the cladding agent just plastic enough to ensure fully covered cereal particles. Otherwise stated, if the binder is overheated, it will be absorbed into and/ or run off the particles and adhere to them unevenly. Conversely, too little heat causes insufficient particle coverage and premature setting of the cladding. As indicated, proportioning and dispensing of the mixed composition may be accomplished with the filler equipment disclosed in my above-mentioned US. patent application Ser. No. 555,810. Other filling or dispensing equipment might be used if it is heat-maintained and capable of handling the mass without damage to the fragile aggregates. EXAMPLE I To provide a supply of pre-mixed cladding mix for use in this and subsequent examples, approximately 10 kilograms of binder base was prepared in a steam jacketed candy kettle maintained at 115 F. To formulate the binder base, the following constituents in the following amounts were mixed in the kettle: Grams Dry refined sugar (6X) 5,400 Hard butter vegetable oil (M.P. 96 F.) 2,900 Spray dried non-fat dry milk 1,700 As a first example of practice of the invention, 151 grams of expanded crisp rice( Rice Krispies) was gradually mixed into 362 grams of heated (115 F.) cladding agent to provide a mixture of cereal and cladding agent which was proportionately about 30%70% by weight. The total mixture volume was about one quart. The mixed ingredients were gently and thoroughly .intermixed with a large tablespoon for several minutes until each crisp rice particle was thoroughly and evenly coated with the agent. During such mixing the temperature was maintained at 115 F. Upon removal of the mix from the heat source, and upon gradual cooling, when the temperature of the mixture was reduced to about 100 F., i.e. slightly above the selected setting-melting point of the particular hard butter vegetable oil ingredient of the cladding agent, the mixture began to congeal slightly so that the cladding was still plastic but exhibited no further runoff on the cereal particles. At this point the conglomerate mass was characterized by an even distribution of the cladding agent throughout the cereal particle interspaces, and by complete though only superficial coating of the particles. With the temperature maintained at approximately 100 F the mixture was maintained under gentle agitation while the mass was transferred and spread evenly onto a flat pan at normal temperature (70 F Upon cooling below 96 F, the mass fully congealed into solid form and was then cut into bar-like segments, then separated and individually packaged. Upon storage, the formed product exhibited no substantial separation of clad coating from the cereal particles, or other deterioration. When eaten, the formed product had the taste characteristic of a bowl of freshly creamed and sugared crisp rice. EXAMPLE II The procedure and proportions of Example I were duplicated with corn flakes, shreds of shredded wheat, expanded crisp oats, puffed wheat, and pufied rice sq'uares. In each case it was necessary to vary the amount of cladding agent only slightly depending on the type and size of aggregate. In each case, also the resultant product was a solid breakfast cereal food tasting much the same as a prepared bowl of freshly creamed and sugared cereal. The clad cereals formed in Example II, as well as the clad crisp rice of Example I, were free of oflF-flavor taste and preserved examples have remained moisture stable during several months storage. EXAMPLE 111 The processing of Examples I and II was repeated, except that after the cladding agent had been fully tempered for approximately 45 to 60 minutes of moderate agitation 'at approximately 115 F then fluid limpid oil, in this case EMMPLE IV A test production run was conducted with a six-wide Vitaline type refrigerated confection forming machine, modified to incorporate the mechanism disclosed in my aforesaid copending application Ser. No. 555,810. Such mechanism includes (1) hard butter melting and mixing facilities, (2) a temperature controlled heated mixingscrew conveyor, (3) dry aggregate hopper means for the cereal constituent, (4) vibrating feeders, and (5) a temperature controlled heated measuring-filling machine. To produce approximately 48,000 volumetric 3 ounce product units, it was calculated that the cereal constituent would involve use of 1440 pounds crisp rice (about 400 volumetric gallons), and about 3200 pounds binder constituent (about 350 volumetric gallons). The hard butter was melted and the cladding constituent was prepared using the ingredient proportions disclosed in Example I, except that in this instance the hard butter vegetable oil used had a melting point of 102 F. The cladding constituent was maintained at approximately 115 F., and was subjected to continued mechanical agitation until smooth and free from lumps or streaks, which tempering agitation proceeded for about 45 minutes. Meanwhile, the crisp rice aggregate was elevated to and stored in the hopper above the mixer-blending screw conveyor. The heated cladding agent was pumped into the revolving screw of the mixing-blending conveyor, and the vibrating feeder device under the aggregate hopper was activated. With the conveyor carefully temperature controlled to about 105 F., the cereal particles were thoroughly intermixed with the binder as these constituents proceed along the screw conveyor. All units were adjusted to produce a flow of the heated conglomerate mixture discharged from the conveyor to provide the discharge rate required to produce about 540 dozen product units per hour, an average production rate for a six-wide Vitaline confection forming machine. Once in operation, the mixaforesaid application Ser. No. 555,810, which was also heated and maintained at a regulated temperature of about F. As the conglomerate mass was delivered to the heated hopper of the filling machine, its flow was adjusted to provide sufficient mass supply to maintain uniform filling of the Vitaline molds. Certain modifications of a Vitaline machine are required when utilizing such for forming a non-refrigerated product according to the present invention. A Vitaline machine, as normally used to produce frozen confections, involves product refrigeration in a brine tank maintained from about -32 F. to 45 F. Such sharp refrigeration is not necessary for practice of the present invention. Accordingly, the brine tank of the Vitaline machine employed in this example was maintained at a temperature of about 5 F., with the compressors of the refrigeration system controlled to maintain this temperature. Also, the stick inserter mechanism of the Vitaline machine was moved upstream, i.e. near the filler end of the machine, approximately 4 feet from the filler machine, so the sticks were inserted into the mass-filled mold cavities within 3 feet of the molds first entering into the cold brine. The purpose of this relocation was so that the sticks would be placed into the heated, congealing mass prior to actual hardening or setting thereof to ensure that the cladding was still fluid enough to encompass the embedded sticks prior to complete hardening of the mass in each mold and thus ensure firm adherence of the mass to the inserted stick. Also, the usual hot water defrost temperature of the Vitaline machine was reduced from the normal F.-180 F. temperature to about 110 F.-l20 F., and the mold washing sections of the machine were set at a relatively higher than normal temperature, i.e. to about F.- F., to ensure complete washing of the exhausted molds in the event of stick failure or failure of the extraction mechanism. Similarly, the final mold rinse section of the Vitaline machine was adjusted to be relatively very hot (about F.-l95 F.) in comparison with its normal operating temperature, to ensure that the molds were both as dry and as relatively warm as possible upon return thereof to the filling machine. It is notable that all of the above-recited changes in operation of the Vitaline machine, incident to practice of the present invention, are relatively minor and relatively easy to effect incident to actual production changeover. The products formed in this run were wrapped and packaged in the same manner as is conventional with ice cream bars, with the exception that the products of course did not require refrigeration after manufacture. The formed products produced in this test run were firm to the point of no noticeable crumbling under normal handling. On extended non-refrigerated storage the products showed no deterioration in apperance or taste characteristics. EXAMPLE V A production run similar to Example IV was carried out with crisp rice and raisins, each of which was discharged separately into the mixing conveyor containing the binder. The raisins replaced about 5% of the crisp rice, by weight, and were fresh whole oiled, free-flowing raisins. In the formed product, both the crisp rice and raisins were enrobed with binder, the binder in this instance serving to seal in the freshness of both the cereal and dried fruit constituents. EXAMPLE VI Another test run was made as in Example V, except that freeze-dried pineapple was substituted for the raisins, in the amount of approximately 3% of the crisp rice. In this example, the cladding agent was flavored lightly with oil soluble pineapple flavoring in the amount of oz. flavoring to 100 lbs. cladding mix, to fortify and enhance the characteristic fruit flavoring. EXAMPLE v11 A further test production run was made with the binder and aggregate ingredients according to Example IV. In this instance the constituents were extruded from the filling machine onto a flat, moving conveyor with the indi vidual portions thus being automatically formed into individual bar shape. In this instance the conveyor was arranged to immediately pass the product through a refrigerated air blast tunnel maintained at approximately 15 F. This test run demonstrated that the products can be made without molding equipment, much in the manner conventional candy bars are formed. It will be apparent to those conversant with the art of making frozen confections with equipments such as the Vitaline machine, the Polarmatic machine, the Nelson machine, and other cold air blast confection forming machines, that the products of the present invention can be made on or with such equipments, simply by appropriate modification of temperature in the various equipment sections. As will also be evident, products, according to the present invention, whether formed by an automatic molding operation or otherwise, can be subjected to a post-forming coating or dry enrobing operation such as disclosed in my aforesaid copending application 555,810. Practice of the present invention to form a flaky or loose type product, rather than a bar type product, involved use of considerably less cladding constituent, suitably in the range of from about to about 40% binder by weight, relative to the weight of the cereal constituent, and preferably about %30% by weight. In forming this type of product, the dry cereal can be tumbled at elevated temperature, e.g. 115 F. in a spray or atomized mist of the binder constituent. As will be apparent, this can be done either on a batch or a continuous basis. In view of the reduced amount of cladding constituent present, it has been found advantageous in preparing the loose form of product according to the invention to first subject the cereal particles to application of a cladding, suitably formulated as in Example I, then subsequently dust the clad particles with dried milk solids and/or sugar in dry particle form. This dusting serves to not only reduce the oiliness of the product and inhibit the enrobed particles from sticking together, but also add to the tastiness of the product in regard to its sweetness and milky characteristics. Further, when the enrobed and dusted particles have water added thereto, the presence of superficial milk solids on the surface of the binder coating results in a degree of prompt liquefication of the milk product and provides a milky appearance to the added water. EXAMPLE VIII In order to specifically demonstrate the forming of a loose type product according to the present invention, the following test was conducted. A cladding constituent was formulated as in Example IV, including hard butter vegetable oil having a melting point of 102 F., and corn flakes was selected as the prepared cereal aggregate. A five quart saucepan was preheated in an oven to about 120 F. The cladding constituent was melted in a double boiler at approximately 115 120 F. and tempered at this temperature with sustained mixing for about 30 minutes. Then, 115 grams of corn flakes (at 72 F.) were placed in the heated saucepan and gently tumbled with a large spatula while 30 grams of the heated cladding constituent was sprayed upon the tumbling flakes from a heated atomizer. During this procedure, it was found advantageous to have the cereal aggregate slightly cooler than the cladding constituent to minimize absorption or impregnation of the cladding agent into the corn flakes. After application of the cladding constituent to the loose flakes, the tumbling of the flakes was continued at a temperature of about 105 F. to further aid in spreading the coating uniformly over the surfaces of the flakes, which additional tumbling was continued for about 3 minutes. At the conclusion of the cladding operation, it was estimated that about 25 grams of the cladding constituent had been picked up by the cereal aggregate. The thus clad cereal particles were essentially completely covered with a thin, superficial coating of the cladding constituent. Then, a pre-prepared dry particle mixture was formulated from grams powdered skimmed milk and 20 grams powdered sugar, and the milk-sugar particle mix was lightly sifted onto the clad flakes while the tumbling action was continued for approximately 3 minutes, during which time the temperature of the tumbling flakes was gradually reduced to about F. Upon conclusion of this dusting operation, it was estimated that about 12 grams of the milk-sugar particle mix had firmly adhered to the solidifying clad coating on the flakes. After cladding and dusting, the treated flakes were then cooled to ambient room temperature (72 F.) and packaged in airtight containers in like manner as conventionally employed with boxed, dried cereals. Upon storage, the product maintained its essentially loose character, without substantial interparticle bonding, and the crispness and taste characteristics thereof were quite stable. Upon mixing a serving of the clad particles with a substantial amount of water, suflicient to wet most of the particles but insufficient to flood the particles, the added water immediately took on a substantial whitened or milky appearance, by reason of the superficial availability of the solid milk particles and the ready solubility thereof in the water. EXAMPLE IX The constituent preparation and mixing procedure set forth in Example VIII was repeated, except in this in stance there was added to the cladding constituent about 3% by weight (based on the weight of the cladding constituent) of a limpid oil, specifically a lauric-acid free, winterized cottonseed oil. The cottonseed oil was added to reduce the melting point of the cladding constituent slightly and promote thinner coverage of the cereal aggregate with the cladding mix. Also, the cottonseed oil addition demonstrably improved the creaminess of the final product, by releasing the vegetable oils more quickly to the taste buds when eaten. EXAMPLE X To simulate an intermediate volume test run for the production of a loose flake type product, some 16 pounds (about 20 gallons) of corn flakes were tumbled in an axially rotated, open ended, slightly inclined tumbler drum maintained at about F. This tumbler drum was constructed with interior, generally circumferentially extending, inwardly directed vanes to produce a more pronounced cascading effect in the particle aggregate moving through the drum. To provide a spray or mist application of the cladding constituent onto the cascading cereal particles, a longitudinally arranged set of nozzles was constructed within the drum and supported above the drums inner lower surface by non-rotating supports in spaced locations at the ends of the drum. A cladding constituent mix, heated to about F. was fed through the nozzle array and thus sprayed onto the cascading cereal particles in the drum. It was estimated that the average transit time or exposure time of the flakes in the tumbling drum was about 3 minutes, and this extent of exposure proved adequate to provide on the flakes an essentially uniform cladding or covering of the cereal particles. The same cladding constituent mix was employed as utilized in Example VIII, i.e. a mix having a melting point of about 102 F. In addition to the cladding spray, the clad aggregates were also subjected to being dusted with the milk-sugar particle mix utilized in Example IX, which dusting operaton was performed by lightly sifting the dry particles onto the cascading flakes in the discharge end of the tumbler drum. Cladding constituent pick-up and dry particle pick- 1 1 V up on the formed product during this run was comparable to that obtained in Example IX. Upon discharge of the clad and dusted particles from the tumbling drum, such was allowed to cool to room temperature and the formed product was packaged as in Example IX. EXAMPLE XI A further test was conducted as in Example X, with the constituents in this instance being 21 lbs. crisp rice (about 20 gallons), 5 pounds cladding constituent, and 7 /2 lbs. dusting particle mix, the latter being formulated from 6 lbs. powdered skimmed milk and 1.5 lbs. powdered sugar. In this instance somewhat less pick-up of the dry milk solids was observed, apparently because of the lesser relative surface area of the rice particles as compared with the surface area of the flaked corn. However, the sweetness and creaminess level of the finished product when eaten appeared substantially comparable to the product formed in the earlier example. It will be apparent that various degrees of sweetness and creaminess can be achieved with any type of cereal aggregate by altering the constituent amounts, processing temperatures and exposure times. From the foregoing, various further modifications and adaptations of the invention will occur to those skilled in the art to which the invention is addressed, Within the scope of the following claims. What is claimed is: 1. The method of superficially cladding toasted, fried or expanded prepared dry cereal particles with a cladding constituent having a melting point in the range of about 96 F. to about 110 F. and comprised of substantial amounts of hard butter vegetable oil, milk solids, and a sweetener to provide a ready-to-eat food product having the characteristic taste and form of the prepared cereal particles and also sweetness and cream-like taste characteristics comparable to that of the prepared cereal particles with sweetener and fluid milk added, said cladding constituent being comprised of a sweetener in an amount to provide the desired degree of sweetness in the final product, about 23-35 parts hard butter vegetable oil, and about 10-20 parts milk solids, relatively by weight and the proportion by weight of the cereal particles being coated, relative to the proportion by weight of the cladding constituent, being about 20-90 parts cereal particles 12 to about 10-80 parts cladding constituent, said method comprising: (a) heating the cladding constituent to a temperature slightly above its melting point; (b) non-crushingly agitating the cereal particles; (0) lightly applying the heated cladding constituent to superficially and substantially uniformly clad the uncrushed cereal particles while maintaining agitation of the particles; ((1) cooling the clad, uncrushed cereal particles to the point of solidification of the cladding constituent; and (e) packaging the clad cereal particles in a form wherein the cereal particles remain uncrushed. 2. The method of claim 1, wherein the amount of cladding constituent applied to the cereal particles substantially fills the interparticle spaces and binds the clad particles into fixed form upon solidification of the cladding constituent. 3. The method of claim 1, wherein the amount of cladding constituent is only sufiicient to substantially envelope the agitated cereal particles without substantially interparticle adhesion; and maintaining agitation of the clad particles during solidification of the cladding constituent. 4. The method of claim 3, comprising agitating the cereal particles in a tumbling drum during application of the cladding constituent. 5. The method of claim 3, additionally comprising applying to the clad cereal particles a dry particle mix at about the time of solidification of the cladding constituent. 6. The method of claim 5, wherein the clad cereal particles are superficially dry coated with dry particles selected from the group consisting of dry milk solids, refined sugar or sugar substitute, and mixtures thereof. 7. A packaged food product made according to the method of claim 1. 8. A packaged food product made according to the method of claim 5. References Cited UNITED STATES PATENTS 2,170,155 8/1939 Musher 9983 2,278,466 4/1942 Musher 99-1 2,824,806 2/ 1968 Matz 9983 3,431,112 3/1969 Durst 9983X RAYMOND N. JONES, Primary Examiner Referenced by Citing PatentFiling datePublication dateApplicantTitle US3868471 Apr 9, 1973Feb 25, 1975Pillsbury CoProcess for preparing clustered, mixed ready to eat cereal products US3876811 Jul 9, 1973Apr 8, 1975Quaker Oats CoReady-to-eat cereal US3959498 Sep 20, 1974May 25, 1976Nabisco, Inc.Emulsified oil and sugar cereal coating and incorporating same US3961091 May 1, 1974Jun 1, 1976Caccavale John LProcess for producing flavored popcorn US4038427 Mar 31, 1975Jul 26, 1977General Foods CorporationProcess for preparing a dried agglomerated cereal mixture US4055669 Jun 16, 1975Oct 25, 1977Sunmark, Inc.Food bar and process of preparing same US4178392 Jul 1, 1977Dec 11, 1979Kellogg CompanyMethod of making a ready-to-eat breakfast cereal US4382924 Jun 25, 1980May 10, 1983The Procter & Gamble CompanyPalatable composition containing oil or oil-like materials US4568557 May 11, 1983Feb 4, 1986Warner-Lambert CompanyProcess for producing snack food product with high dietary fiber content US4594252 Sep 11, 1984Jun 10, 1986The Quaker Oats CompanyMethod for making dipeptide sweetened ready-to-eat cereal US4608263 Sep 11, 1984Aug 26, 1986The Quaker Oats CompanyMethod for making flavored dipeptide sweetened comestible US4927645 Feb 21, 1989May 22, 1990Borden, Inc.Process for making candy coated snack foods such as popcorn US4981697 Nov 14, 1988Jan 1, 1991Land O'lakes, Inc.Method of weaning piglets US5413805 Aug 31, 1992May 9, 1995Kraft Foods, Inc.Low or no fat granola cereal mix and process US5518744 Dec 23, 1994May 21, 1996Multiforsa AgPackaged food combination with edible fatty barrier US5612075 Jun 7, 1995Mar 18, 1997The Pillsbury CompanyCoat dehydrated potato slices and a process of making the coated potato slices US5698248 Sep 26, 1996Dec 16, 1997The Pillsbury CompanyCoated dehydrated food pieces and a process for making the coated dehydrated food pieces US5709902 Dec 13, 1994Jan 20, 1998General Mills, Inc.Method for preparing a sugar coated R-T-E cereal US5919503 Jul 25, 1997Jul 6, 1999General Mills, Inc.Flaked R-T-E cereal and method of preparation US6051262 Jul 27, 1998Apr 18, 2000Krause; Arthur A.Cereal having a functional surface coating US6099875 Dec 9, 1998Aug 8, 2000Krause; Arthur A.Individual serving size cereal package US6153235 Jun 18, 1998Nov 28, 2000Krause; Arthur A.Milk-coated cereal product US6183788Mar 2, 1999Feb 6, 2001General Mills, Inc.Flaked R-T-E cereal US6676982Jun 26, 2001Jan 13, 2004Cadbury Adams Usa LlcNutritional food bar for sustained energy US7118774Dec 30, 2002Oct 10, 2006Kraft Foods Holdings, Inc.Cereal bars and methods of their manufacture US8470741May 7, 2003Jun 25, 2013Croda Americas LlcHomogeneous liquid saccharide and oil systems DE2802959A1 Jan 24, 1978Aug 10, 1978Nestle SaNahrungsmittelprodukt auf getreidebasis und verfahren zur herstellung desselben EP0128666A1 May 10, 1984Dec 19, 1984Warner-Lambert CompanyA food product having a high fibre content and a process for producing the food product WO2001064044A2 *Mar 1, 2001Sep 7, 2001Mody Seema KNutritional food bar for sustained energy U.S. Classification426/93, 426/309, 426/305 International ClassificationA23L1/164 Cooperative ClassificationA23L1/1641 European ClassificationA23L1/164B	http://www.google.com/patents/US3582336?dq=U.S.+patent+number+7,325,728&ei=Y93TTteOAe702wW6uqi1BQ	<urn:uuid:1c5416d1-8576-47e1-abd4-4fe8f3ad65c8>	en	0.93069	0.047321
Search Images Maps Play YouTube News Gmail Drive More » Sign in 1. Advanced Patent Search Publication numberUS5375228 A Publication typeGrant Application numberUS 07/651,743 Publication dateDec 20, 1994 Filing dateFeb 4, 1991 Priority dateFeb 4, 1991 Fee statusPaid Also published asEP0498121A2, EP0498121A3 Publication number07651743, 651743, US 5375228 A, US 5375228A, US-A-5375228, US5375228 A, US5375228A InventorsKevin W. Leary, Russell L. Rivin Original AssigneeAnalog Devices, Inc. Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet Real-time signal analysis apparatus and method for digital signal processor emulation US 5375228 A An emulation system used to debug software for a digital signal processor (DSP) includes a built-in digital signal analyzer which operates upon the same digital signals as those presented directly to and outputted by the DSP, bypassing the signal converters used to convert an input analog signal to digital format and the output digital signal to analog format. A host computer communicates with the digital signal analyzer via firmware in a control processor and personality board, or is alternately connected directly with the analyzer. Communications between the digital signal analyzer and the DSP are through the same contact probe as that used for the emulation software. The analyzer may be used to trigger a software function within the emulator based upon the real-time signal from the DSP, and is also capable of interpolating between successive digital values of an analyzed signal for display purposes. Previous page Next page We claim: 1. In a digital signal processor (DSP) emulation system for debugging operational software to be run on the DSP, said system including an analog-to-digital converter (ADO) for sampling and converting an input analog signal to a digital format for presentation to a DSP upon which the software is run, a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) for converting a digital output from the DSP to analog format, and an emulator for applying operation software to the DSP for debugging the software, the improvement comprising: a digital signal analyzer which includes means for monitoring a real-time signal from the DSP and for triggering a software function within said emulator upon the occurrence of a predetermined monitored signal event, and a connector providing direct synchronous digital connections from said digital signal analyzer to the output of said ADC and to the input of said DAC for non-intrusively analyzing digital signals presented directly to the DSP, and digital signals outputted directly from the DSP after being operated upon by the software being debugged, said digital signal analyzer being synchronized to said ADC sampling through said collector. 2. The DSP emulation system of claim 1, wherein said emulator communicates with the DSP through a contact probe, and said digital signal analyzer is connected to the output of said ADC and to the input of said DAC through the same contact probe, said emulator and digital signal analyzer both being synchronized to said ADC sampling through said contact probe. 3. The DSP emulation system of claim 2, said digital signal analyzer comprising a DSP having hardware interfaces essentially similar to the DSP under test. 4. The DSP emulator system of claim 1, said digital signal analyzer including means for accumulating a record of said real-time signal over time, and for triggering said software function in response to a predetermined event associated with said accumulated signal record. 5. The DSP emulation system of claim 1, further comprising means for displaying signals from said digital signal analyzer, and means for interpolating between successive digital values of at least some of said signals to display a smoothed version of the signal. 6. A digital signal processor (DSP) emulation system for debugging software, comprising: a probe providing electrical signal connections to a DSP, a digital signal analyzer connected by said probe to access and analyze digital signals supplied to and outputted from the DSP, and an emulator communicating with the DSP via the same probe as said analyzer for applying software to be debugged to the DSP, said emulator and digital signal analyzer both being synchronized through said contact probe to said digital signals supplied to the DSP, said emulator including: a control processor controlling the operation of said digital signal analyzer and said emulator, and a host computer for providing operational commands to said control processor, said host computer communicating with said digital signal analyzer to display the results of said signal analysis, said digital signal analyzer communicating with said emulator to trigger software functions in the emulator in response to predetermined digital signal events accessed by said analyzer. 7. The DSP emulation system of claim 6, wherein said emulator includes personality circuitry interfacing between said emulator and said probe for rendering said emulator compatible with the DSP, said host computer communicating with the digital signal analyzer via firmware in said control processor and said personality circuitry. 8. The DSP emulation system of claim 7, said host computer communicating directly with the digital signal analyzer. A block diagram illustrating the present approach to digital signal analysis for DSP emulation is provided in FIG. 2, in which elements that are the same as in the prior system of FIG. 1 are identified by the same reference numerals. In the new approach, a real-time signal analyzer 18 is integrated into a software domain emulator 20, and communicates directly with the DSP 6 under test. Communications between the signal analyzer 18 and DSP 6 are preferably through the same probe harness 14 used by the emulator 20. Although the full benefits of the invention are realized by integrating the signal analyzer with the emulator, if desired a separate interconnect could be provided between the signal analyzer and DSP. Signal analyzer 18 thus operates from the same digital signals as those actually applied to and outputted from DSP 6. In other words, the signal analyzer is connected to the DSP sides of ADC 4 and DAC 8, rather than to their analog sides as in the prior art. This new configuration has several distinct advantages. It avoids the relatively high noise levels of the analog-based signal analyzers previously used, and also segregates the DSP under test from the noise and other effects of the input ADC 4 and output DAC 8. Thus, there is no ambiguity as to whether a particular effect detected by the signal analyzer reflects the influence of the converters rather than the DSP itself. For example, if the output signal does not match a desired pattern, the fault can now be definitely isolated to the DSP, whereas previously it might have been uncertain whether the DSP or one of the signal converters was causing the problem. Furthermore, operating directly with the DSP input and output allows for a synchronization between the DSP and signal analyzer that makes it much easier to calculate and display "eye" patterns, and makes it feasible to trigger software functions in the emulator based upon the real-time DSP signals. A preferred hardware architecture for the new emulator/digital signal analyzer is shown in FIG. 3. The DSP 6 under test is illustrated as part of a target system, which is typically a larger circuit provided on a circuit board 22. The probe 14 includes a multi-wire cable 24 that expands into a contact ring 26 surrounding the DSP. Contacts with the individual DSP pins are made via a series of fine wire connectors 28, with each pin from which a signal is desired connecting to an individual lead wire that extends through the cable 24. The emulator system 20, shown enclosed in dashed lines, includes a control processor 30, two digital real-time analyzer boards 32 and 34, and a "personality board" 36 supporting its own DSP microcomputer 38 that performs the functions of digital signal analyzer 18. Other than the addition of the signal analyzer function, the "personality board" 36 is a conventional part of an emulator system. It is designed to make the system work with a particular DSP under test; in general, each different test DSP 6 will have a unique personality board. The control processor 30 is preferably a general purpose CPU with two high speed serial communications links, and acts as the local controller for the emulator. The real-time analyzers 32 and 34 may be implemented as conventional 144 bit by 8192 trace buffers with 8 bus event detectors and sequencers. Their function is to maintain digital signal histories. The personality board 36 contains all of the circuitry specific to the particular target processor, while the probe 14 contains all of the circuitry for interfacing the emulator to the target system 22. The signal analyzer DSP 38 is preferably implemented as a small removable daughter board on the personality board. In one example it consists of a complete DSP system that includes a 64 Mhz ADSP-2101 DSP microcomputer by Analog Devices, Inc., 30 k words of external high speed SRAM, 1 megawords of sample memory, and a high speed interface to the personality board. It has two signal inputs and two signal outputs in a digital serial pulse code modulated (PCM) format that interface with the probe. All PCM protocols supported by the target processors are supported by the signal analyzer DSP 38. The system is controlled by the user operated host computer 12, with the software emulation functions conducted in a conventional manner. The host computer 12 communicates with the digital signal analyzer DSP 38 through the control processor board and personality board firmware or, alternately as indicated by phantom line 40, it could communicate directly with the signal analyzer. Digital data is directed from the probe via the personality board 36 to the real-time analyzers 32 and 34 along path 42, in parallel with the signal analyzer DSP 38. The control processor 30 sends commands to and receives information back from the other boards along paths 44. A simplified block diagram is given in FIG. 4 which demonstrates the non-intrusive nature of the PCM serial data path from the target system 22 to the signal analyzer DSP 38. This data path not only facilitates the continuous real-time acquisition and generation of PCM signals from and to the target system, but also allows the signal analyzer DSP 38 to function as an in-circuit device which performs its analysis upon the same samples of the analog input and output signals that are being processed by the target system. The in-circuit signal analyzer DSP 38 contributes no relative sampling phase or jitter and no additive instrumentation noise. It can accurately perform functions such as measuring channel noise floors and presenting "eye" pattern traces for datacomm channels. A dual-input, dual-output system is illustrated in FIG. 4. The conversion functions of ADC 4 and DAC 8 (FIG. 2) are combined in CODECs 46 and 48, each of which converts an input analog signal into digital format for presentation to a respective serial port of target DSP 6 (SPORT 0 and SPORT 1), and a digital output from the test DSP 6 back to analog format. The digital signal analyzer 38 taps into the connections between test DSP 6 and CODECs 46, 48 via the probe 14. The beginning of a data frame is identified by Receive Frame Sync (RFS) and Transmit Frame Sync (TFS) pins in the target DSP 6, which connect to the Frame Sync Receive (FSr) and Frame Sync Transmit (FSx) pins in the CODECs. Data Transmit (DT) and Data Receive (DR) pins in the DSP 6 are connected respectively to the input Pulse Code Modulated Input (PCMin) and to the Pulse Code Modulated Output (PCMout) pins in the CODECs. A master synchronizing clock signal for both transmitted and received data in the two synchronous serial ports is identified as the Synchronous Clock (SCLK) pins in DSP 6, and are connected to the Clock Receive (CLKR) and Clock Transmit (CLKX) pins in the CODECs. The difference in the sampling accomplished by the present and prior signal analyzers is illustrated in FIG. 5, in which an input analog signal is indicated by waveform 100. The waveform is periodically sampled by input ADC 4 at the points marked with an "x"; these same samples are provided to the digital signal analyzer of the present invention. With the prior approach the digital signal analysis, sampling within the signal analyzer 16 (FIG. 1) was not synchronized with the sampling of ADC 4 (or DAC 8), and accordingly typically resulted in samples that were out-of-phase with the sampling of ADC 4; illustrative prior signal analyzer samples are indicated in the figure by an "0". Further discrepancies result when the signal analyzer samples are not merely out-of-phase with the test DSP samples, but are also taken at a different sampling rate. The emulator system's software architecture will now be discussed. The in-circuit signal analyzer is imbedded within the conventional in-circuit emulator. To facilitate user access to both analyzer and emulator features, graphical user interface software may be provided within the host computer 12 for both the signal analyzer and emulator, including a capability of rapidly switching between the two interfaces. The host computer 12 resident software communicates through a packet interface to firmware running on the control processor 30 (FIG. 3). The control processor 30 handles all communications with the host computer 12 and passes commands to the personality board 36 firmware, which in turn communicates with the digital signal analyzer DSP 38 and a monitor program running on the target probe 14 by writing/reading packets in shared memory locations. All acquisition, signal analysis and generation functions are performed by the digital signal analyzer DSP 38, which sends back rasterized data to the host computer software for display. Low level emulator commands (such as register get and register set) are handled by the probe monitor program, while the personality board firmware handles housekeeping functions such as hardware setup. The system's control flow is master/slave, with the host computer 12 acting as master. Communication between the host computer software and the control processor firmware is initiated in the preferred embodiment by the host computer software, with the control processor initiating communications with the personality board. Communication between the personality board the probe monitor or the digital signal analyzer is initiated by the personality board. The internal software architecture of the digital signal analyzer is illustrated in FIG. 6. An interface and control bus 50 provides an interface between the digital signal analyzer and the personality board firmware. The analyzer includes an input signal generator section 52 that can be used to generate a test signal to apply to the DSP 6 under test in case a test input signal is not available. The signal generator includes a pair of memory channels 54, 56 that can be programmed to store desired test signals. In one implementation, each channel has a 1,024 sample circular buffer memory that is written to statically by the host computer with a window of data that is precalculated and can be replayed any desired number of times. Each sample is read from the circular buffer as needed, based upon the output interrupts to the digital signal analyzer. A reference display in the host computer can be used to show the user the signal being generated and statistics associated with it. A pair of signal waveform generators 58, 60 can also be used to generate test waveforms in real-time from stored programs. Test signal outputs are provided from each channel via summing nodes 62, 64, with the user selecting between the signals stored in the channel memories or the real-time generated signals for application to the summing nodes. Input signals from the DSP 6 under test are routed along channel input lines 66, 68 to channel A and channel B memories 70, 92, respectively. In one implementation, each channel has a 512 sample first-in, first-out (FIFO) circular buffer memory that is written to on each input ready interrupt associated with that channel, with the 512th oldest sample being lost. This relatively small memory capacity was selected because the display media in the host computer for this implementation had about 512 samples of horizontal display resolution, so that for display purposes any additional capacity in the channel memories would not be useful. Also, because the samples are of a band limited signal and the digital signal analyzer gathers the exact samples being processed by the DSP 6 under test, interpolated samples between each of the 512 samples may be calculated quickly in the digital signal analyzer as needed. The digital signal analyzer serial ports run synchronously and complementary with the DSP 6 under test, and the signal analyzer's sampling rate is the same as in the user's system. The sampling rate may be limited, however, because of some sample-by-sample processing that occurs in the signal analyzer, mostly in the trigger calculations discussed below. Each channel's maximum rate is currently estimated to be about 2 million samples per second. The signal analyzer and digital multimeter functions discussed below are performed on a batch basis when required, rather than when each individual sample is received. The channel memories 70, 72 hold recent histories of the sample data from the DSP 6 under test. The two channels may be cross-correlated and rasterized for display on the host computer in a conventional manner, indicated by function box 74. The information in each channel can be analyzed and displayed in various ways. In this example, each channel is subject to a spectral analysis and accompanying rasterization for display, identified by numerals 76, 78. The spectral processing options may include power spectrum density, magnitude and phase via fast Fourier transforms, histograms, cepstrum, auto-correlation and auto-coherence; cross-correlation, cross-coherence and cross-power spectrum density are available from the cross-correlation/rasterized function 74. Traditional oscilloscope functions for signal display are performed in channel function blocks 80, 82. This function also preferably includes the ability to interpolate between the discrete sample points held in the channel memories to more smoothly reproduce the original input and output analog signals for display purposes. While the interpolation software is conventional, the in-circuit nature of the digital signal analyzer makes it feasible for the first time to use interpolation for an analog display of digital signals being analyzed in connection with DSP software emulation. These functional blocks also include a rasterize function for display on the host computer. Digital multimeter (DMM) measurements are performed in functional blocks 84 and 86, based upon the same data available from the channel memories, and again displayed via the host computer. The DMM measurements may include peak-to-peak voltage, minimum and maximum voltages, mean and median voltages, RMS voltage, voltage variants, kurtosis and skewness, zero crossings and signal-noise ratio, all of which are calculated from the 512 sample channel memories. The outputs from each of the signal analysis functions described above are applied to the interface/control bus 50. From there they communicate with the host computer 12 via the personality board and control processor firmware. The digital signal processor also has the ability to trigger software functions in the emulator based upon the received digital signals. For example, if the spectral analyzer indicates the receipt of an audio signal, that can be used to trigger the collection of a software execution and instruction trace for the DSP under test. The trigger can also be used to initiate a real-time display of desired signals. A software-controlled selector switch 88 chooses between the input signals on input channel lines 66 and 68 for delivery to a trigger memory 90, which may be a 128 sample FIFO circular buffer that holds samples from the trigger channel source for use in calculating trigger parameters. A Calculate Trigger function 92 operates upon the information stored in trigger memory 90 to determine when a trigger threshold level has been exceeded. The trigger parameters used in one implementation are absolute voltage level, RMS signal value, the mean of the stored signal values, and auto-correlation measures for signal-to-noise and noise-to-signal ratios. For absolute voltage level triggering, the signal values on a sample-by-sample basis are compared with a threshold. For this type of triggering, three sub-samples between each successive sample are preferably bandwidth interpolated with a 32 tap interpolator 96 to ensure that signals near the Nyquist rate do not have "hidden" trigger levels. For RMS and mean triggering, the trigger parameters are calculated from the samples stored in the trigger memory and compared with a threshold level. Signal and noise triggering use the auto-correlation function to make a qualitative determination of the signal or noise level within the overall signal. The trigger functions that are based upon calculated values (as opposed to a simple absolute voltage level trigger) are preferably coupled with a level trigger to ensure a seamless sequencing of the display of time domain signals. The output from the Calculate Trigger function 92 is delivered to a Trigger Sequence function 94. This latter function controls the trigger sequence, and can be selected by the user. The trigger modes which it supports are Single, Norm and Auto. For single mode operation, when a trigger event occurs the display is updated and frozen until the trigger is manually rearmed. In the Norm mode, the display is updated and the trigger is automatically re-armed when a trigger event occurs. The Auto mode is the same as the Norm mode, except that if there is too long a period of time between updates an update will be forced regardless of the presence of a trigger signal. As an option, triggering can be coupled to RTA (FIG. 3, elements 32, 34) event recognizers as well. When this option is used, a signal domain trigger event can cause an emulator hardware action to take place as well. Options that may be included in this area are pre, post and center filling of the trace buffer before a break, single bus event tracing and output pulse generation. As mentioned previously, one of the advantages of the present invention is that it makes it possible to display "eye" patterns, which result from overlapped traces of thousands of successive signal patterns. An "eye" pattern trace is illustrated in FIG. 7. Because the carrier signal is modulated in distinct discrete sets of phase and amplitudes, certain areas of the display will never be traversed by a voltage trace; these areas are said to have the appearance of an eye, leading to the term "eye" pattern. Since the digital samples provided to the digital signal analyzer 38 of the present invention are the same as the samples processed by the DSP 6 under test, rather than being separated from the DSP by an input ADC 4 and output DAC 8, eye patterns can be displayed much more easily and reliably than with prior digital signal analyzers used in conjunction with DSP emulation. While the present invention has been illustrated in connection with specific preferred embodiments, it should be understood that numerous variations and alternate embodiments will occur to those skilled in the art. Accordingly, it is intended that the invention be limited only in terms of the appended claims. FIG. 1 is a block diagram of a prior DSP emulation system, discussed above; FIG. 2 is a block diagram of a DSP emulator system constructed in accordance with the present invention; FIG. 3 is a block diagram of the system's hardware architecture; FIG. 4 is a wiring diagram of the digital signal analyzer data path architecture; FIG. 5 is a segment of an analog signal comparing the data sampling of the present invention with that of prior digital signal analyzers used in connection with DSP emulation; FIG. 6 is a block diagram of the digital signal analyzer's internal software; and FIG. 7 is a trace of a typical "eye" signal pattern that can be achieved with the invention. 1. Field of the Invention This invention relates to the emulation of digital signal processors (DSPs) for debugging associated software, and more particularly to real-time signal analysis performed on the DSP during the debugging operation. 2. Description of the Prior Art DSPs are basically microcomputers that are designed to perform specific signal processing tasks under software control. For a typical single chip DSP application, the applications developer is presented with several debug and analysis challenges. This is due to the fact that the developer is not only designing a signal processing system, but is also writing software. The process of software debugging starts with ensuring that the software cycles correctly on the DSP. Once this is accomplished, the engineer ensures that the correct signal processing occurs. Typically, this involves ad hoc and empirical measures of performance. If the correct signal processing is not occurring, the engineer must discover the source of the error. In general, errors may result from: a fundamental error in the signal processing algorithm; a data error in coefficients, parameters or constants; or a software bug. An analysis of signals provided to and outputted from the DSP can be useful in each of these error determination functions. A conventional DSP software debug and signal analysis setup is illustrated in FIG. 1. An analog signal is provided by a signal generator 2 and delivered to an analog-to-digital converter (ADC) 4, which converts it to a digital format suitable for application as an input to the DSP 6. The output from the DSP is converted back to analog format by a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) 8. Software under test is run on the DSP 6 by means of a conventional emulator system 10, which operates under the control of a host computer illustrated as personal computer 12 and applies the software program to the DSP via a contact probe 14 that includes a multi-wire cable 14. In practice, the user removes the DSP from his circuit board and replaces it with the emulator probe, which has a pinout identical to the DSP chip's pinout. The contact probe includes the same type of DSP as that removed from the board, and establishes a secure path between the replacement DSP and the emulator. Conventional signal analysis is performed on the input and output signals to and from the DSP by means of a separate signal analyzer system 16. The signal analyzer 16 is connected to detect the analog signals at the input to ADC 4 and the output from DAC 8. The signal analysis is performed digitally, and the signal analyzer 16 includes internal ADCs to convert the detected analog signals to digital format for this purpose. Typical signal analyzers are the HP35660A Dynamic Signal Analyzer by the Hewlett Packard Company, and the PM2260 Oscilloscope Signal Processing Package by the Philips Company. While necessary to analyze the operation of the DSP during the emulation process, the signal analyzer has several drawbacks. First, it is a stand-alone unit that is fairly expensive and adds significantly to the cost of the overall test apparatus. Also, the signal-to-noise ratio of the analog front-end analyzer is typically about 70 db, which is higher than the typical noise floor of ADC 4 and DAC 8; the signal analyzer 16 will thus be analyzing signals that are noisier than the actual digital signal seen by the DSP 6. In addition, since the signals delivered to signal analyzer 16 embrace both the DSP 6 and the ADC 4 and DAC 8, if a problem appears it may be difficult to determine whether it stems from the DSP itself or from one of the converters. Another limitation is that the signal analyzer 16 does not sample the input analog signal at the same points as the input to the DSP from ADC 4. This makes it very difficult to display "eye" patterns, which are cumulative traces of a succession of input signal patterns. Signal analysis to test the operation of electrical systems other than DSPs is also frequently performed. In the A500 Analog VLSI Test System by Teradyne, Inc., analog or mixed analog/digital devices (rather than digital units) are tested. The test system includes a built-in DSP that determines whether the analog device is working properly. The DSP generates a digital stimulus signal which is converted to analog format and applied to the device under test; the output of the device under test is then converted back to digital format for analysis by the DSP. In another system, which is designed for the development of slow speed microcontrollers, a digital voltmeter is built into an emulator for the non-DSP microcontroller and used to read the current voltage level (Pentica Systems, Inc. MIME 600). These systems, however, are not applicable to the DSP emulation process. The present invention seeks to provide a digital signal analyzer for a DSP emulation system that is more cost efficient than previous signal analyzers, introduces less noise into the signal analysis, is capable of segregating out the effects of the input ADC and output DAC from the DSP being analyzed, works with digital samples that correspond to the sample inputs to the DSP, and couples the software domain debug procedure with the real-time signal analysis procedure through a tightly copied cross-trigger mechanism. These goals are accomplished by integrating a digital signal analyzer into the emulation system itself, and connecting it directly to the input and output of the DSP through the same probe used in the software debug operation. Since the digital signal analyzer is connected to the output of the ADC which feeds the DSP, and to the input of the DAC which receives output signals from the DSP, the signal analysis reflects the true operation of the DSP without distortion from the ADC and DAC. The new digital analyzer configuration makes it possible to provide effective cross-coupling between the real-time signal analysis and the software domain debug procedures. A real-time signal from the DSP can be monitored by the signal analyzer and used to trigger software and/or hardware functions within the emulator upon the occurrence of a predetermined event in the monitored signal. The analyzer has the capability of accumulating a record of the real-time signal over time, and for triggering the software function when the accumulated record corresponds to a predetermined event. The signal analyzer is also capable of interpolating between successive digital values of an analyzed signal to display a smoothed version of the signal. These and other features and advantages of the invention will be apparent to those skilled in the art from the following detailed description of preferred embodiments, taken together with the accompanying drawings, in which: Patent Citations Cited PatentFiling datePublication dateApplicantTitle US4674089 Apr 16, 1985Jun 16, 1987Intel CorporationIn-circuit emulator US4796258 Jun 23, 1986Jan 3, 1989Tektronix, Inc.Microprocessor system debug tool US4821269 Oct 23, 1986Apr 11, 1989The Grass Valley Group, Inc.Diagnostic system for a digital signal processor US4843608 Apr 16, 1987Jun 27, 1989Tandem Computers IncorporatedCross-coupled checking circuit US4943969 Nov 28, 1988Jul 24, 1990Unisys CorporationIsolation for failures of input signals supplied to dual modules which are checked by comparison US5043990 Dec 2, 1988Aug 27, 1991Hitachi, Ltd.Semiconductor integrated circuit device US5228039 May 9, 1990Jul 13, 1993Applied Microsystems CorporationSource-level in-circuit software code debugging instrument Non-Patent Citations 1 A500 Analog VLSI Test System, Teradyne, 1987. 2 Microprocessor System Development MIME 600, Pentica Systems, Inc. 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Southern Apricot Recipes Enjoy our collection of southern apricot recipes submitted, reviewed and rated by community. Meet people who are looking for southern apricot recipes. CC - SEF: 195 Spiced Apricots Combine apricots, water, sugar, cloves, and cinnamon in a 1 1/2-quart casserole. Stir well. Cover with plastic wrap. Microwave at HIGH 7 to 8 minutes. Rotate dish 1/2 turn. Microwave 6 to 8 additional minutes at HIGH or until apricots are tender. Let stand,... - 31.5334 Orange Apricot Dessert Drain oranges; combine with apricot yogurt. Place in glass bowl and garnish with whipped topping and nuts. - 23.1614 Home Made Apricot Squares Rinse apricots: cover with water; boil for 10 minutes. Drain, cool; chop. Mix together the butter, sugar and 1 cup flour. Pack into a greased 8-inch-square pan; bake at 325° for 25 minutes. Combine remaining 1/2 cup flour, baking powder and salt. Gradually... - 42.0719 Ham With Apricot Sauce Brown ham in hot oil; remove from skillet. Add onion and cook until tender; stir in nectar. Return ham to skillet. Cover and simmer 15 minutes, basting occasionally. Remove ham to serving platter. Dissolve cornstarch in water; add to sauce. Cook, stirring - 30.8687 Honeydew Salad With Apricot Cream Dressing Combine first 4 ingredients; stir well. Spoon melon balls into sherbet or champagne glasses. Top with dressing. - 19.1543 Apricot Shake Combine the first 4 ingredients in container of an electric blender; process until smooth. Garnish beverage with an apricot flower threaded on a straw, if desired. To make apricot flower, place 1 whole dried apricot, moist side down, on an absorbent paper... - 26.6448 Apricot Glazed Ham And Yams Combine preserves, raisins, and lemon juice; mix well. Arrange ham and yams in shallow baking dish; pour apricot mixture over all. Bake at 350° for 30 minutes. - 23.5269 Apricot Almond Bars Cream together butter, powdered sugar, 1/4 teaspoon almond extract, and lemon juice. Combine flour, 1/2 cup chopped almonds, and salt. Stir dry ingredients into creamed mixture until crumbly. Reserve 1 cup crumb mixture for the topping. Pat remaining crumb... - 43.7278 Apricot Braid Mix 3/4 cup flour, 1/4 cup sugar, salt and undissolved yeast thoroughly in a large bowl. Combine 3/4 cup milk and 2 tablespoons margarine in a saucepan and place over low heat until liquid is warm. Margarine does not need to melt. Add to dry ingredients... - 44.4927 Slavic Apricot Kolaches Dissolve the yeast in the milk in a bowl. Add the shortening, sugar, egg yolks and salt and mix well. Add the flour gradually and stir until smooth. Brush with margarine and let rise until doubled in bulk. Shape into balls and roll in the margarine. Place on... - 40.5852 Apricot Baked Ham Remove skin and excess fat from ham; place ham on a rack in roasting pan. Combine mustard and jam; spread over ham. Pat brown sugar over jam mixture; insert cloves in ham at 1-inch intervals. Bake at 325° for 2 1/2 to 3 hours (15 to 18 minutes per pound) or... - 27.8159 Apricot Spice Cake Combine all ingredients except Powdered Sugar Glaze in a 2-quart mixer bowl. Beat mixture until well blended. Pour batter into ungreased 10-inch microwave tube cake pan. Let stand 10 minutes. Microwave at HIGH 8 minutes. Rotate dish at 2 minute... - 36.0743 Rolled Apricot Pancakes Mix the pancake mix, milk, egg and oil in a bowl until smooth. Bake on griddle according to package directions. Spread 1 tablespoon jam over each pancake and roll up. Dip in eggs, then in corn flake crumbs and place, seam side down, in a heated skillet... - 36.4183 Golden Nugget Cookies Cook apricots in water over low heat for 5 to 10 minutes. Do not drain (water should be absorbed). Mix shortening and sugars until light and fluffy. Add egg, flavorings and cooled apricots. Mix flour, salt, and baking powder: add to apricot mixture, mixing... - 41.2182 Southern Jam Cake Place all ingredients in mixing bowl. Blend at low speed, then beat at medium speed 2 minutes. Grease 10- or 12-cup bundt or tube dish well. Coat with graham cracker crumbs. Spread batter in dish. Place greased glass, open-end up, in 2 1/2- to 3-qt casserole... - 38.3071 Southern Dried Fruit Compote GETTING READY 1. Preheat the oven to 350°F. 2. Place fruit in a colander and rinse fruit under tap water. MAKING 3. Place the fruit in a 2 quart casserole or baking dish and cover it with boiling water. 4. Cover dish with a lid or with wax paper. 5. Bake... - 42.9105 Coffee Cot Cake Prepare roll mix and let rise according to package directions. Combine the apri cots, sugar and water in a saucepan and bring to a simmer, stirring constantly. Cook for 15 minutes or until apricots are soft. Drain the apricots and reserve syrup. Add enough... - 43.6123 Stewed Dried Apricots Wash the apricots quickly but thoroughly in cold water. Place in a saucepan, add the 3 cups of water, cover and allow to soak for 2 or 3 hours. Put the soaked apricots to cook in the same water, cover and simmer very gently for 15 minutes or until just... - 26.0424 Apricot Coconut Balls Combine apricots and coconut; stir to mix. Add condensed milk and mix well. Shape into 1-inch balls and coat with confectioners' sugar. - 28.9523 Mulled Apricot Nectar Combine apricot nectar and orange juice in a Dutch oven. Tie 4 sticks cinnamon, allspice, and cloves in a cheesecloth bag, add to juice mixture, and bring to a boil. Cover, reduce heat, and simmer 20 to 25 minutes. Discard spice bag. Serve beverage... - 32.63 Fried Apricot Turnovers Combine apricots and just enough water to cover in a small saucepan, bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer, uncovered, 15 minutes or until tender. Drain well. Add sugar, cinnamon, butter, and lemon juice. Mash apricot mixture well. Divide pastry into 2... - 36.9093 Apricot Carrots MAKING 1. In a saucepan, cook carrots in boiling water for 8-10 minutes 2. Then combine the remaining ingredients in the saucepan and cook 3. Now stir in the carrots, and cook until they are properly heated SERVING 4. Serve with sauce - 32.7814 Apricot Brie Spread Combine water, apricots, and brandy in a small saucepan, bring mixture to a boil and cook, stirring constantly, 10 minutes or until soft. Stir in pecans. Slice casing from top of Brie, cutting to within 1/4 inch of edge. Slice Brie in half horizontally. Shape... - 35.9671 Apricot Nut Delights GETTING READY 1) Pre-heat the oven by setting the temperature to 325Â°F (160Â°C). MAKING 2) Take a bowl and add the flour and sugar together rubbing them with butter. 3) Add enough water to make a dough, stiff in consistency. 4) Take a board and sprinkle... - 48.6348 Apricot Glazed Pork Roast 1. Preheat oven to 350°. 2. Combine first 3 ingredients in a bowl; stir well. Brush roast lightly with preserves mixture. Place on a broiler pan coated with cooking spray. Insert meat thermometer into thickest portion of roast. 3. Bake at 350° for 1 hour... - 29.6592 Apricot Bread Preheat oven to 350°. Grease and flour loaf pan. Place apricots, raisins, and grated rind in large mixing bowl. Add boiling water to orange juice to make 1 cup liquid; add to fruit. Stir in baking soda, sugar, butter, and vanilla. Stir in egg. Sift in flour... - 47.0534 Apricot Filling Combine apricots and Amaretto in container of an electric blender. Blend well. - 16.4592 Triple Sec Apricot Glaze Combine all ingredients; stir well. - 15.048 Apricot Rum Syrup Combine the sugar, apricot nectar, lemon juice and rum in a bowl and stir until sugar is dissolved. Pour over the Babas, turning until the syrup is absorbed. Serve with whipped cream. - 22.0509 Apricot Shake GETTING READY 1) To make apricot flower, put the dried flower on a paper towel moist side down, to absorb extra moisture and then roll it over with rolling pin. 2) Slit the flower all around and then hold its drier side down. Pinch centre o apricot to make... - 35.9664 Apricot Preserves Wash, scald, pit and peel the apricots. Add the sugar and lemon juice and let stand for 4 to 5 hours. Cook over low heat, stirring until the sugar dissolves. Boil over high heat until the apricots are clear. Pour immediately into hot sterilized jars and seal. - 24.7982 Apricot Jam Combine the apricots, sugar and lemon juice in a large kettle and bring to a boil over low heat, stirring until the sugar dissolves. Cook over medium heat, stirring frequently, for about 25 minutes. Jam is thick enough when mixture will sheet from a... - 22.9282 Brandied Apricot Sauce GETTING READY 1) Drain the apricots and store the juice for later use. MAKING 2) In a container of electric blender, place half part of apricot halves. 3) Process the apricot until a smooth mixture is formed. 4) Take the remaining apricot halves to chop... - 38.8138 Frozen Apricot Fluff Place half of macaroon crumbs in an 8-inch square baking pan, set aside. Combine apricots, sugar, and lemon juice, mix well. Beat whipping cream until stiff peaks form, fold into apricot mixture. Pour into pan, spreading evenly; top with reserved... - 32.7925 Apricot Conserve Wash the apricots and drain. Cover with 1 3/4 cups water and soak for several hours. Cook until soft and tender, then mash to a pulp. Drain the pineapple and combine the pineapple juice with enough water to make 1/4 cup liquid. Add the fruits, pecans, lemon... - 29.7553 Apricot Brie Spread Combine first 3 ingredients in a small saucepan; bring to a boil over medium heat. Cook, stirring constantly, 5 minutes or until apricots are soft. Remove rind from top of cheese, cutting to within 1/4 inch of outside edge. Place cheese on a baking sheet; top... - 32.9886 Baby Apricot Muffins GETTING READY ) In a large bowl, combine first six dry ingredients. MAKING 2) Mix all the ingredients thorougly. 3) Make a well in center of the mixture. 4) In a small bowl, beat egg until frothy. 5) Combine oil and apricots and mix well. 6) Pour the... - 43.7124 Spiced Apricot Punch In slow-cooking pot, combine apricot nectar, orange juice, brown sugar, and lemon juice. Tie cinnamon and cloves in small cheesecloth bag; add to juices. Cover and heat on low for 2 to 5 hours. Serve hot from pot. Makes 12 servings. - 33.6871 Apricot Pineapple Pies Put apricots in saucepan and add water. Bring to boil, cover, and simmer for 25 minutes, or until almost tender. Add pineapple, then dry ingredients mixed together. Simmer for 10 minutes longer, or until slightly thickened and clear, stirring... - 35.703 Stewed Apricots And Prunes GETTING READY 1. Place prunes and apricots in 2 separate stainless steel or glass bowls. 2. Cover the prunes with hot tea and apricots with hot water and let soak overnight or for at least 4 hours until soft and plum. 3. Reserve the soaking liquid. 4. Pit... - 39.7182 Apricot Bread Sift the flour with sugar, baking powder, and salt and stir in the apricots and cereal nuggets. Blend the milk with egg and shortening in a bowl. Add flour mixture and stir just until flour is moistened. Pour into a greased 9 x 5-inch loaf pan. Bake at 350... - 41.1025 Apricot Peanut Squares Use very warm water (105° 115°F.) for dry yeast; use lukewarm (80° 90°F.) for compressed. Sprinkle dry yeast or crumble cake into water. Let stand a few minutes; then stir until dissolved. Stir in the sugar, salt, 1/4 cup melted butter, eggs, and... - 42.9772 Solo Apricot Parfait Pie GETTING READY 1. Preheat oven to 375° Fahrenheit. 2. In a large mixing bowl, mix butter and sugar. 3. Stir in flour to form a dough. MAKING 4. In a 9 inch pie pan, press the dough at the bottom and sides. 5. Bake the crust in oven for about 12-15 minutes... - 50.1189 Frosted Apricot Salad GETTING READY 1. Melt gelatin and marshmallows in boiling water. 2. Thicken the gelatin mixture by gradual addition of cold water. 3. Drain pineapple and reserve about half a cup juice. MAKING 4. Add pineapple and banana into gelatin mixture. 5.Portion... - 48.6842 Apricot Stuffed Cornish Hens GETTING READY 1. Start by preheating the oven to 350° F 2. Cut chicken into equal pieces and also remove giblets from hens, reserve for another use MAKING 3. In a pot, soak apricots in boiling water for 20 minutes 4. In a skillet, saute mushrooms, pecans,... - 46.6903 Apricot Raisin Loaf GETTING READY 1) Grease 9x5x3 inch (23 x 12 x 7 cm) loaf pan. MAKING 2) In a bowl, put butter, sugar and 1 egg. 3) Beat the mixture until smooth. 4) Add second egg and beat well. 5) In the mixture add orange juice. 6) In another bowl, combine flour, baking... - 47.0225 Apricot Glaze Apricot Glaze has a fine taste. Apricot Glaze gets its desired flavor from apricot mixed with rum or orange juice. - 16.3942 Apricot Butter Peel and pit the apricots and cut in small pieces. Combine the apricots, sugar and orange juice and rind in a large kettle and cook over low heat until of a thick spreading consistency. Two teaspoons mixed whole spices per gallon of butter may be added after... - 27.5337 Mango Apricot Conserve Peel and dice the mangoes. Combine with sugar and lemon juice and cook over medium heat for about 15 minutes or until thick. Add the apricots and bring to a boil. Pour into hot sterilized jars and seal. - 24.477 Hot Apricots With Gin Butter MAKING 1. In a saucepan cover the apricots with water or wine and heat until they have plumped up. SERVING 2. In a blender or food processor mash or blend the butter, gin, sugar and ground almonds and serve with the hot apricots. - 30.6164 Apricot Marmalade Soak the apricots in water to cover overnight. Peel the oranges and grapefruit and remove the white rind. Cut the apricots, oranges and grapefruit in pieces and add the lemon juice and pineapple. Measure the combined fruits and add an equal amount of... - 28.7099 Apricot Almond Mousse GETTING READY 1) Keep the electric mixer beaters as well as bowl in the freezer. 2) Drain the apricot halves and keep the liquid in separate bowl. MAKING 3) Keep aside 1 apricot half. Put the remaining apricots in the container of an electric blender.... - 44.4282 Peachy-apricot Cream Bring 1 cup apricot nectar to a boil in a saucepan. Remove from heat; add gelatin, stirring until dissolved. Stir in remaining apricot nectar, set aside. Place peaches and apricots in container of an electric blender, process until smooth. Add fruit and sour... - 31.8496 Apricot Fried Pies Place a 6-ounce package apricots in a medium saucepan, add water to cover. Cover pan and cook over low heat 15 minutes or until apricots are tender. Mash apricots, and add sugar, set aside. Combine flour and salt; cut in shortening with pastry blender until... - 40.1223 Apricot Balls Combine apricots, coconut, and pecans in a large bowl; add sweetened condensed milk, stirring well. Chill. Shape mixture into 1 inch balls, and roll each ball in powdered sugar. Store balls in an airtight container in refrigerator. - 24.4346 Apricot Nut Bread Combine the sugar, pecans and apricots in a bowl and stir in the egg and orange juice. Add the biscuit mix and beat for about 30 seconds. Turn into a greased 9 x 5-inch loaf pan. Bake at 350 degrees for 45 minutes or until toothpick inserted in center comes... - 29.205 Nutty Apricot Bars Cover apricots with water, and bring to a boil; reduce heat, and simmer, uncovered, 15 minutes or until tender. Drain, reserving 1/4 cup liquid. Coarsely chop apricots, and set aside. Combine reserved apricot liquid and 3/4 cup sugar in a saucepan; simmer 5... - 38.8685 Chilled Apricot Mint Soup MAKING 1. In a food processor or liquidizer jar, empty the cans of apricots along with the syrup. 2. Blend the apricot into a smooth puree. 3. Empty the puree into a bowl and add cream. 4. Whisk until well blended. 5. Stir in the lemon juice and mint... - 40.7659 Apricot-stuffed Pork Chops Chop enough apricots to make 1/2 cup, reserve remaining apricot halves. Make pockets in pork chops, cutting from rib side to fat edge of each chop. (Do not cut through fat edge.) Heat oil in a skillet over medium heat, brown pork chops on both sides. Set... - 40.9579 Apricot Gelatin Mold Dissolve gelatin in boiling water. Add whipped topping and let dissolve. Mix well. Add cold water. Refrigerate until thickened. Blend in sliced bananas, nuts, and pineapple tidbits. Chill overnight. Must be prepared a day ahead. - 36.9605 Mock Apricot Filled Danish Pastry Unroll package of crescent roll dough on a lightly greased 15 1/2 x 12-inch baking sheet. Shape dough into a rectangle, pressing perforations together with fingertips. Brush with melted butter. Spread preserves lengthwise down center of rectangle in a 3-i - 25.7965 Orange Apricot Conserve Combine the first 5 ingredients in a large kettle and cook until thick, stirring constantly. Add the nuts and stir to mix well. Remove from heat. Cool for 5 minutes, stirring and skimming. Pour into hot sterilized glasses and seal. - 27.1342 Sour Cream And Apricot Dessert Sauce MAKING 1. In a large pan of simmering water, poach the apricots till tender and soft 2. Pass the fruit through a sieve to make a fine paste 3. Add the sugar and salt to the hot fruit puree and combine till completely mixed. 4. Allow the mixture to cool. When... - 33.9579 Apricot Glazed Cornish Hen With Wild Rice Combine first 3 ingredients in a small bowl; set aside. Remove giblets from hens; reserve for another use. Rinse hens with cold water, and pat dry. Lift wingtips up and over back, and tuck under hens. Close cavities, and secure with wooden picks. Tie ends of... - 44.2446 Apricot Glazed Ham Cut ham into 1/4-inch thick slices. Re-shape and tie two separate strands of string around sides of ham and one strand over top, sides and base to keep ham intact. Put into a shallow roasting pan. Combine apricot conserve, vinegar, honey and ginger. Heat 5... - 40.0094 Apricot Glazed Cornish Hens GETTING READY 1.Discard the green leaves of cauliflower and break it into small florets. MAKING 2.Mix the cauliflower with bacon, tomatoes, green onion, cheese, pimiento stuffed olives and mayonnaise. SERVING 3.Seve in a dish. - 39.4931 Golden Apricot Jam MAKING 1) Take a large sauepan and combine all the ingredients. 2) Allow to boil and stir frequently. 3) Reduce heat and simmer for 1 hour 15 minutes or until temperature registers 221 degree in a candy thermometer. 4) Stir continuously to avoid burning. 5)... - 37.9717 Apricot Flan MAKING 1) Take a glass bowl and melt butter for 45 seconds on power. 2) Pour milk and beat in eggs, flour, sugar to make a smooth paste. 3) Grease the tart mould with butter and insert the apricot halves in the mould. 4) Pour in the mixture and sprinkle... - 42.9028 Brown Rice Pudding With Prunes And Apricots GETTING READY 1 Preheat the oven to 350°F.( Gas mark 4/180°C) 2 Lightly grease a 4 pint (2 litre) casserole with butter. MAKING 3 In a thick-based saucepan bring the milk to a boil. 4 Sprinkle in the rice, stirring well. 5 Cover and cook over... - 45.1985 Pineapple Apricot Bread GETTING READY 1.Start by preheating the oven to 350° F MAKING 2. Combine the first 4 ingredients and set the mixture aside 3. Also combine the next 3 ingredients, beat properly 4. Continue by adding next 4 ingredients and beat it properly, now stir in flour... - 46.9308 Ham Sandwiches With Apricot Mustard MAKING 1) In a bowl mix together apricot preserves and mustard. 2) Smear about 2 teaspoons apricot mixture over one side of each bread. 3) Arrange 1/4 of the ham or turkey and cheese over 4 bread slices on the apricot mixture side. 4) Place spinach or lettuce... - 36.3868 Apricot Nut Bread Apricot Nut Bread is easy to make tasty bread. If you like dried fruit mixed with nuts bread then try out this Apricot Nut Bread recipe. I bet you will love it. - 41.5585 Banana Omelette With Apricot Jam MAKING 1. Slicing bananas toss in granulated sugar. 2. In a pan melt butter caramelizing bananas. 3. Separating the eggs beat the yolks. 4. Whisk the whites until firm and fold yolks into the whites. 5. Into the centre of the pan push the banana slices... - 35.3129 Apricot Dip Combine all ingredients, mixing thoroughly, chill. Serve with melon balls. - 22.5216 Baked Montrachet With Fresh Apricots And Blueberries GETTING READY 1) Preheat oven to 350 degrees. MAKING 2) Place goat cheese on ungreased baking sheet and keep in oven when its just melting for about 2 to 3 minutes. 3) On four small salad plates arrange the lettuce leaves. 4) Gently mix vinegar and oil. 5)... - 40.6528 Honeydew Salad With Apricot Cream Dressing MAKING 1) In a bowl, add cream, pecans, coconut and apricots. 2) Stir well. SERVING 3) Add the melon balls into sherbet or champagne glasses. 4) Top with the cream dressing. - 34.925 Apricot Glazed Carrots MAKING 1.In a small saucepan, put butter or margarine, peanut oil, and anchovy fillets and let them cook unti butter starts melting. 2.Take a chafing dish and pour the mixture into it and place it on low heat. SERVING 3.Serve the dip with artichoke dish. - 34.8038 Apricot Glazed Pineapple Sundaes 1. Place preserves in a small microwave-safe bowl. Microwave at HIGH 10 seconds or until preserves melt. 2. Combine sugar and cinnamon; stir well. Place pineapple slices on a broiler pan. Brush pineapple with preserves, and sprinkle with cinnamonsugar. Broil... - 26.0789 Apricot Baked Ham MAKING 1)Use a roasting pan and place ham after removing skin and excess fat from it. 2)Combine mustard and jam and spread over ham. 3)Pat brown sugar over jam mixture and insert cloves in ham at 1-inch intervals. FINALIZING 4)Bake at 325° for 2 1/2 to 3... - 37.4052 Apricot-oatmeal Bars Combine flour, oats, sugar, soda, and salt in a large bowl, blend well. Add butter and vanilla, mix until crumbly. Reserve 1 cup mixture. Press remaining crumb mixture into a greased 13- x 9- x 2-inch baking pan. Spread apricot preserves on crust to within... - 35.5872 Apricot Chicken With Noodles GETTING READY 1) Cook noodles in boiling salted water. 2) Drain noodles, toss with 1 tablespoon butter and keep aside. MAKING 3) In an 8x8 inch baking dish, place the chicken with skin-side up. 4) Pour 1/4 cup melted butter over top of chicken. 5) Bake... - 37.7358 Barbecued Chicken Apricot Sauce GETTING READY 1. Preheat the oven to 325 degree F. MAKING 2. Rub the chicken pieces inside out with salt and pepper. 3. Arrange the pieces in a single layer in a large roasting pan. 4. Cover the pan with foil and place in the hot oven. 5. Cook chicken for... - 49.1073 Apricot Dijon Glazed Turkey With Herbed Pilaf GETTING READY 1. Preheat the oven to 350°F. 2. In a medium saucepan, bring water to a boil. 3. Stir in the bouillon. 4. Take off heat and set pan aside. MAKING 5. In a small saucepan, combine jam and Dijon mustard, gently heat to melt the jam. Set aside for... - 48.8834 Babas With Apricot Rum Syrup Pour the milk into a saucepan and bring to boiling point. Remove from heat and cool to lukewarm. Add the yeast and stir until dissolved. Let stand for 10 minutes. Place flour in a bowl and add yeast mixture, sugar, salt and eggs. Mix thoroughly. Cover with a... - 40.3423 Sauteed Chicken Breasts With Apricots Bourbon And Pecans GETTING READY 1) Mix the apricots with the bourbon and 1/4 cup of the stock and marinate for eight hours or overnight. Else heat bourbon and 1/4 cup of the stock and bring to a boil, then turn off the heat and immerse the apricots in the liquid for about 10... - 45.5827 Pappardelle With Pork, Apricots And Madeira MAKING 1. Make pappardelle as explained as per instructions on the pack. 2. In a pan add oil and heat it well. 3. Add onions and fry for 3 minutes. 4. Add pork and cook for 6 minutes more. Stir occasionally. 5. Mix stock, madeira, red wine, blended... - 49.7981 Paradise Dressing Chop the onion very finely and in a small saucepan fry gently in the oil until soft but uncoloured. Add the curry powder and cook over low heat for a few minutes. Stir in the red wine, lemon juice and apricot puree and allow to bubble briskly for a few... - 34.6168 Dried Fruit Compote GETTING READY 1) In a small saucepan, place the dried fruits with the apple juice. MAKING 2) Boil the juice slowly, cover the pan and simmer over a gentle heat for 5 minutes. 3) Into individual serving dishes, spoon spoon the fuits and juices and top each... - 34.3931 Savarin Chantilly Sift flour into a warm bowl and make a 'well' in the centre. Dissolve yeast in warm milk, add lightly beaten eggs, and pour into flour. With one hand mix until smooth (the mixture is a soft and sticky one) then beat thoroughly for 4 to 5 minutes. Cover basin... - 45.1915 Meringue And Ladyfinger Slices GETTING READY 1 Place two racks in the upper third and center of the oven and heat to 375 degrees farenheit. 2 Line two large baking sheets with parchment paper. MAKING 3 For the meringue: in a large bowl, beat the whites with a handheld mixer... - 45.3595 Dried Fruit Nuggets Combine all ingredients except sesame seeds in container of food processor. Process until pureed. Shape into balls, using 1 1/2 teaspoons mixture per ball. Roll in sesame seeds. Store in airtight container in refrigerator up to 2 weeks. - 25.568 Pork St Tammany Pork st tammany is a pork loin roast recipe. Prepared with a stuffing mix of rice with apricots and pecans, the pork st tammany is cooked with bacon slices on top and makes a great and filling meal. - 47.1543 Curried Popcorn Mix Melt margarine in a nonstick skillet, remove from heat. Add Worcestershire sauce, curry powder, and garlic powder, stir well. Add cereal, stir to coat. Combine remaining ingredients in a large bowl. Add cereal mixture, toss gently. - 30.9006 Hot Fruit Compote Crumble macaroons in a shallow pan. Bake at 400Â° for 3 to 4 minutes or until lightly toasted, stirring occasionally; cool. Sprinkle half of macaroons in a 2 1/2-quart casserole. Layer remaining ingredients in order given. Sprinkle on remaining macaroons,... - 36.3639 Almond-butter Wedding Cake Cover 8 and 12-inch sturdy cardboard circles with aluminum foil. Spread a small amount of Almond-Butter Frosting on the 12-inch circle, and place one 12-inch cake layer on top. Spread about 1/3 cup Apricot Filling on top of cake layer, spreading to within... - 28.2311 Candied Apples With Almond Topping Combine apricot jam, sugar, water, apple juice, and orange rind in large saucepan; heat 5 minutes. Cut apples in half; remove cores and peel. Place apples in hot syrup; cover and cook slowly until apples are tender but not mushy. Add additional apple juic - 28.1161 Baked Dried Fruit Place apricots and prunes in a greased 2-quart casserole. Add orange sections and pineapple. Top with pie filling. Pour sherry over all. Bake at 350° for 1 hour. - 31.2952 Sugarless Fruit Spread Combine all ingredients in container of an electric blender; process until smooth. Store in refrigerator. - 16.8076 Tropical Cooler Combine first 3 ingredients; stir until sugar dissolves. Add remaining ingredients; mix well. Serve over ice. - 20.2935 Sugar Plum Balls Rinse prunes and apricots, cover with cold water, bring to a boil, and boil for 5 minutes. Drain and cool. Cut prunes from pits and chop. Chop apricots. Cream shortening thoroughly and gradually blend in vanilla extract and milk. Combine flour, salt, and 1/3... - 38.929	http://www.ifood.tv/network/southern_apricot/recipes	<urn:uuid:4076e105-210d-4290-a6e3-3487e74ba678>	en	0.828483	0.037962
tools en Risky Business: Learning to Consider Risk and Make Sound Sexual Choices <div class="field field-type-text field-field-author"> <div class="field-label">Author: </div> <div class="field-items"> <div class="field-item odd"> Heather Corinna </div> </div> </div> <div class="field field-type-text field-field-introduction"> <div class="field-label">Introduction: </div> <div class="field-items"> <div class="field-item odd"> Choices about sex and intimacy will always involve some risks, and making sound choices when risks, emotions and social high stakes are involved isn't something anyone is magically expert at. How can we learn to do it well, and what are some common things that trip us up? </div> </div> </div> <p>When we hear about risk, especially in the context of <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3348"><dfn title="About or relating in some way to sex or sexuality.">sexual</dfn></a> or <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3511"><dfn title="Of, or relating to, sexual or courtly love or interest.">romantic</dfn></a> endeavors, experiences or choices, it's often framed as some kind of Very Big Bad -- like risking <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3414"><dfn title="Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) is a virus that eventually destroys the immune system and weakens the body's ability to fight disease and infection. It usually progresses to AIDS. It is a serious sexually transmitted infection that requires medical treatment, although it cannot be cured. ">HIV</dfn></a> or other STIs, an unwanted <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3390"><dfn title="The state of carrying a developing embryo or fetus within the uterus. Medically, someone is considered to be regnant when an egg has been fertilized by sperm, cells divide, and the fertilized egg is implanted within the lining of the uterus.">pregnancy</dfn></a>, <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3401"><dfn title="Purposeful harm or mistreatment of another person, which can be verbal, emotional, physical or sexual. An ongoing pattern or cycle of such mistreatment or harm can characterize an abusive relationship. ">abuse</dfn></a> or self-harm, or the downfall of all civilization -- and like something only about scary stuff, which exists in some kind of vacuum where risk-taking is never about anything healthy or positive and should be completely avoided at all costs.</p> <p>Risk, the reality of what risk can be, and why we take risks in the first place isn't so one-dimensional. A risk is, most simply, anything that has the potential to lead to some kind of loss or unwanted outcome; something where an outcome is uncertain, a gamble, that can be different than what we expect or want. If we take a risk, it's something we usually do or consider with the aim of getting or experiencing something positive or wanted.</p> <p>We can't live risk-free. To try and get or experience things we want, things that benefit us or others, even to just do the most basic things we need to to take care of ourselves, we often have to risk things we don't want, which may be unwanted or negative, or risk not getting or experiencing what we do want.</p> <p>Risk is involved in something so seemingly mellow as taking the bus to get to school or work, eating lunch or putting up a new profile picture online. We risk falling down in order to stand up; we risk getting turned down for a job or by a college if we apply. If we want to come out, we may risk nonacceptance, judgment, emotional conflict, and even violence, but we probably risk those things because we hope to gain positives like acceptance, understanding, being able to be seen as who we are and a greater ability to live our lives more freely, safely and openly and with more love in them. We risk rejection when asking someone out because our hope is they'll go out with us, and to make that happen, someone's gotta ask and take that risk. We risk all the many things <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3311"><dfn title="Different things people choose to do to actively express or enact sexuality and sexual feelings; often this involves genitals, but not always. The word sex also means a way people, animals or plants are classified based on their chromosomes, genitals or reproductive organs.">sex</dfn></a> with someone else can put us or them at risk of because we hope to experience the positives of sex, the good things it can bring us or others. The notion of risk as being about nothing but bad, or as only about the risk itself, just isn't sound.</p> <p>People don't just take or consider taking risks because we get a rush from being risky, or because we don't know something involves risk. However, taking risks <em>can</em> also involve experiencing the risk and how risk-taking makes us feel positively. For instance, people who choose to go deep-sea diving know all about this, as do people who choose to work in areas or fields which put their safety at risk. Both of those things pose risks of harm or injury, but those risks seem worth it to the folks that take them for reasons like feeling very alive, of stretching oneself past limits, of doing work that is needed and meaningful that involves taking risks others can't or aren't willing to take.</p> <p>If and when we tell someone something secret about ourselves, part of the intimacy is that we're also co-experiencing risk -- that person might tell someone else or might judge us -- and knowing that risk is being taken is part of what demonstrates and builds trust and that intimacy. Voicing an unpopular opinion is another example: we probably feel it is worth it and important, but we also risk nonacceptance, judgment, humiliation, social ostracism, but can feel a sense of bravery or courage from taking those risks. People who get married or otherwise make long-term, serious commitments to someone take some big risks making that kind of commitment; people who choose to parent take on huge risks. Those decisions aren't just about taking risks, but the level of risk involved, the act of risk-taking, versus those things risking nothing and being totally safe, is some of what makes those choices meaningful to some people.</p> <p>Totally avoiding risk isn't possible, and choosing to take risks -- and even enjoy taking them -- also doesn't mean you're an idiot with no impulse control or who's carelessly gambling your whole life every time you choose to open yourself up to risks. We can't avoid risk in most of life; certainly not with sex. We <em><strong>can</strong></em> do our best to choose to only take risks really worth taking, to avoid taking risks bigger than we have to, and only take risks we have choices about when we're sure we can handle, and want to be open to, the risk-taking itself and the potential outcomes or consequences of the risks we take.</p> <p>Let's get some myths about risk-taking, sex and young people out of the way  first. All of the following are common tropes we hear -- even among peers, or in our own heads -- but which NO ONE with any sound and current education, credibility and without some big bias against young people would or does back up:</p> <ul> <li>Young people are incapable of even considering risk and making sound sexual choices where there are risks.</li> <li>Young people take sexual risks only for the sake of taking a risk; to get a high from risk-taking or to "act out."</li> <li>Young people who make very risky sexual choices only do so out of ignorance or lack of impulse control.</li> <li>Young people can really only decide to have sex or not to have sex: they lack the maturity or ability to make sexual choices with more nuance or layers.</li> <li>Young people are slaves to their hormones, and are incapable of thinking through sexual decisions clearly because of hormones.</li> </ul> <p><strong>None of those things are universally true, or backed up by anything but current popular opinion, and most aren't even broadly true.</strong> Young people, on the whole, are capable of evaluating risk and making smart choices when there is risk involved, including choices with sex, and, like older people, young people's motivations for doing or expressing anything sexual tend to be diverse and complex, and about a whole lot more than the rush of doing something risky.</p> <p>Some of these things may be true for some people sometimes. For instance, we do know that developmentally, in a broad way, younger teens <em>do</em> typically have a harder time understanding they're not magically invulnerable to risk, and making decisions when the stakes are high is often more difficult for people in that age group than for teens just a couple years older. A <a href="">recent study out of Cornell found that teens they studied were more likely to ponder risks, and take longer weighing pros and cons of engaging in high-risk behavior than adults</a>, and even overestimated risks. (It also found, though, that those teens often decided potential benefits outweighed the risks.) We also know, however, that, on the whole, the messaging many, if not most, young people are reared with about risks tends to be very black and white; many go without the help and guidance we need to learn to make choices which involve risk, especially when it comes to sex. <em>"Just say no," "Good guys/girls don't,"</em> or <em>"Only once you're married,"</em> after all, only dictate what decision someone apparently should make, they don't teach a thing about how to actually weigh and make choices. Same goes double for growing up in environments that are highly controlled, then winding up in one with little to no external control -- like college -- and being expected to figure out how to do all of this by (and sometimes about) the seat of your pants.</p> <p><div class="pullquote"><hr /><div class="quotecontent"><strong>The Antidote to "It Can't Happen to Me."</strong> Quick and dirty, it goes like this: <strong>yes, it can.</strong> Anything that can happen to someone else can usually happen to us. Obviously, if we don't have a <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3392"><dfn title="In female-assigned people (unless it has been surgically removed or was not formed in utero), an internal, muscular reproductive organ in the pelvis. During pregnancy, this is where a fetus will develop. When not pregnant, it is the lining of the uterus, when shed each cycle, that provides a menstrual period.">uterus</dfn></a>, we can't get pregnant even though other people have, and if we don't have a <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3324"><dfn title="One of the two external reproductive organs of male-assigned people. ">penis</dfn></a>, we aren't going to lose a penile <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3376"><dfn title="When a body part, such as the penis or parts of the vulva, becomes filled with blood and enlarges and/or becomes more firm.">erection</dfn></a>. But I'm not talking about things like that where our bodies lack an ability. If someone else's <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3385"><dfn title="In a sexual context, a person with whom someone is having some kind of sex. The term "partner" can be used for all kinds of relationships, not just serious ones. "Partner" can also mean the person someone is with in a romantic or familial partnership.">partner</dfn></a> can ditch them after sex, we have to know ours could, too. If someone else could get an STI by having <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3335"><dfn title="When a penis is inserted into and held by the anus while partners move their bodies as feels good to them for the purpose of sexual stimulation.">anal intercourse</dfn></a>, we need to know that so can we. If someone else with a uterus can become pregnant and we have one, too, the same could happen for us. And often, the more invulnerable we think we are to something happening, the more super-shiny-luck we think we have that other, more unlucky folks don't, the more likely it is <em>to</em> happen, especially since when we think that way, we don't tend to do the things which reduce risks that people who don't think so magically do.</div><hr /></div></p> <p>Many of us are also surrounded by a cultural sexual context that doesn't support or encourage thinking things through and making sound choices based on those thoughts, but just reacting. We get messages that sex is supposed to be about being spontaneous, about being "swept away," or is something totally outside our control because our hormones make us do things; about going with the flow of other people's wants. We might have gotten messages that if we choose to engage in sex in a particular context -- like marriage, for example, or after a certain age -- that everything will be hunky-dory and we somehow (how, I don't know) won't have to worry about any risks or making any difficult choices. Suffice it to say, a whole lot of people have ignorance at the wheel with sexual decisions, because very few people have had sound sex education, and education that doesn't amplify or diminish many of the risks involved. So, while there are some issues around all of this that can be developmental and can be about different abilities, a lot of this is also cultural. In other words, you probably <em>can</em> do this thing and learn to do it well, and most of the barriers to doing it well aren't about anything missing in your brain, but about learning how to do this, considering risk when it really makes sense to -- rather than when there's just no way the benefits could outweigh the risks --  and unlearning some of the stuff that keeps us all from doing it better.</p> <p>When presented with a sexual decision, or any kind of high-stakes choice that carries some kind of risk, how do we work it through? There are a lot of different theories and approaches to decision-making and risk assessment, but most boil down to something like this:</p> <h3>The Barest of Decision-Making Basics</h3> <p><strong>1.</strong> We sort out what our risks in a situation are, and if we are not certain, we make an effort to find out as much as we can from credible sources.<br /> <strong>2.</strong> We sort out what the potential benefits are or think there could be could be in taking those risks.<br /> <strong>3.</strong> We consider the realistic -- not what we wish, hope or, alternately, fear -- likelihood of all the possible outcomes of a given choice, positive, negative and neutral, and work through how important to us those possible outcomes are.<br /> <strong>4.</strong> We open our minds and weigh the potential benefits against the potential losses or unwanted outcomes, while also considering how big or small, important or unimportant, each are to us: we look at the pros, look at the cons and then decide if the possible benefits outweigh the possible risks, unwanted or negative outcomes for us or not. When someone else is involved, we think or talk about all of this and the impact on them, too.<br /> <strong>5.</strong> If we're not, at that point, at an absolute go, or a total no-go, we rethink, reevaluate or reconsider our situation to see what we can do to reduce or mitigate those risks; we consider our alternative choices and options.<br /> <strong>6.</strong> Rinse, then repeat.  In other words, we then consider an alternative at hand, and start that process again from the <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/4561"><dfn title="This term may refer to the person taking a more dominant role during a sexual encounter, or sometimes to refer to the insertive partner during penetrative sex. It can also be used as a verb- "to top someone" is to act as the "top" with regard to your encounter with them. ">top</dfn></a>, continuing as we reach decisions.</p> <p>So simple, right? Sometimes it is, even if the decisions we come to aren't easy or ideal choices to make. But other times, it's tougher: some things can jack up that process, or parts of it can be more challenging to think through or work out clearly.</p> <h3>What and How Much Are You Risking and How Do You Know?</h3> <p>If and when we're taking any kind of risk, we sometimes know clearly what our risks are and how likely they are. For instance, if we've had the education or experience to know how pregnancy happens, how STIs can be transmitted, or what being in an intimate <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3307"><dfn title="Some kind of ongoing interaction or association with another person, place or thing. There are all kinds of relationships: family relationships, friendships, romantic relationships and sexual relationships are a few, and sometimes those will overlap where we have more than one kind of relationship with someone. Sometimes people use the word relationship to only mean a romantic, "serious" or committed relationship, even though that's not all this word means.">relationship</dfn></a> or exchange can be like, then we can have a good sense of what we're risking, when we're open to those risks and when we're not, how high or low those risks might be, and how we might feel or cope with those risks or outcomes.</p> <p>But sometimes, we don't know what we're risking, or think that a level of risk is different than it is. For instance, some folks think that so long as they only have <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3333"><dfn title="When a penis is inserted into and held by the vagina while partners move their bodies as feels good to them for the purpose of either sexual stimulation and/or reproduction.">penis-in-vagina intercourse</dfn></a> for a certain <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3435"><dfn title="The fluid, which contains blood, from the shedding of the uterine lining usually at the end of each fertility cycle. Or, that flow you perhaps may have experienced once while shouting, "Oh thank GAWD!"">period</dfn></a> of time, a penis only enters a vagina for a certain amount of centimeters or inches, or someone is on Day Whatever of their <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/4560"><dfn title="Having to do with menstruation.">menstrual</dfn></a> cycle, that pregnancy isn't a risk. Other folks think that if they are within a ten-mile-radius of someone they have a sexual interest in, they'll get pregnant just by having sexual thoughts, or that if they touched something someone with a penis touched, pregnancy is a real possibility. None of those folks have a handle on the realistic level of risk in their situations.</p> <p>If and when we don't have the sound, credible information we need to even know what our risks in a given situation are, how high or low they are, and what, realistically, the outcomes of those risks are most likely to be and how they're likely to impact us, others or our lives, then we start a decision-making process handicapped right at the gate; without the most basic things we need to start that process well, let alone complete it in a sound way.</p> <p>When it comes to sexual decisions, so many people are lacking in sound sex education and information. So,  they're often going to make poor decisions just because their knowledge of their risks are based more in misinformation, propaganda, hearsay or people's anecdotes (often told with their own agendas affixed) than in sound, broad information from credible, reliable sources.</p> <p>You're already at one place where you can seek out sound, credible information, so by all means, immerse yourself. But Scarleteen isn't the only place to get it: you can add to the info we provide by visiting <a href="">other credible sites online</a>, talking with staff at <a href="">sexual or reproductive health clinics or practices</a>, reading at the library, and asking people you trust and know to both have sound, up-to-date sex education and your best interest at heart for help and information. While a lot of junior high and high schools don't have good comprehensive sex education programs, lots of colleges do (hint: if you're younger or not enrolled in college, you may be able to audit), as do some bookstores, health centers, and other community centers.</p> <p>Something we see here a lot, when a user comes to us with misinformation about risks they're taking, is <em>"But my boyfriend/girlfriend told me that..."</em> One of the things that makes information credible is that the source of that information doesn't have a lot of personal bias, or is able to put their bias on the table, so it's not hidden. If and when we want to be sexual with someone, we have a TON of personal bias: there's something we want, sometimes very badly, for ourselves, even if we're not an absolute tool and do care about the other person, too, and we also usually want sexual partners to see us as having some kind of sexual authority or expertise rather than as clueless. Potential or current sexual partners are great people to talk <em>about</em> sex and our sex lives <em>with</em>, and to share sexual information with, but not great people to get that information from as a primary source. So, do make sure that when it comes to the information you're getting to figure out what is and isn't a real risk, and how big or small a given risk is, the person who wants to take that risk with you or have you take it isn't the same person you're getting most of your information about it from.</p> <h3>Thinking Things Through When You're Running Hot</h3> <p>Some decision-making theory frames the context in which we make decisions as hot or cold.  "Cold" decision making is something we do in a calm, more detached state, and is also often a decision about things that don't pack a huge punch, like what we're going to wear in the morning or what movie to see.  "Hot" contexts, on the other hand, are those where we're often under stress (including eustress, stress from positive things, not just stress from negative situations), our emotions are high, and the stakes are high, with our decisions often being about bigger, more loaded things, like health or safety.  In that "hot" space, it's probably no surprise that we can all be much more likely to make irrational decisions or not think things through clearly.</p> <p>When we're making sexual decisions, it's often in a "hot" context, even in relationships or interactions where everyone is being thoughtful and kind to each other, and the general environment is positive and healthy. After all, these choices are about big things like our health and safety, tend to carry high emotional stakes, very much involve our emotions and those of others and do tend to be about things that most people find to be very important; these decisions usually involve stress, sometimes a lot of it.</p> <p>When we're under that kind of stress, it impacts how we make choices. It's very common to cope poorly with stress, or to react with things like avoidance, denial, or panic, all reactions that can color our decisions, or even cause us to react by refusing to make our own decisions at all, leaving them up to someone else or just "letting fate decide."  (Which it doesn't of course: someone is still deciding in a given situation, someone who's name probably isn't Fate.)</p> <p>One of the toughest things about evaluating risk and making decisions which involve risk when it comes to any kind of sex is often that it is a "hot" decision-making situation, and we may have to think fast and make big decisions in the moment, decisions that ideally, we'd probably take a lot more time to make. See what you can't do in those situations to cool them a little: to make the environment you're making in them a little less loaded and a little more relaxed, whether that means taking a walk-break, getting some comforting snuggles or affirmations of support no matter what you choose, calling a friend, dancing around the room for no good reason, listening to a favorite CD -- whatever might help you can make a choice with a cooler head.</p> <p>Unless we are in the midst of being attacked or assaulted, we can always make and take more time to think things through. We can always press pause and just say, <em>"I need more time to think about this, so I need to get back to you about it later;if you want to, or we can talk some about it now, with the understanding I'm not doing it now and will still need my own time to think more."</em> If and when we find ourselves in sexual situations where we don't feel ready to think fast and evaluate big things quickly well, we probably aren't ready to move forward with whatever that situation or thing is yet, and need more time: time to figure out, in a broad way, how we feel about whatever it is, and also time to be more ready for making a given kind of big or loaded choice quickly.</p> <p>Too, make sure to shut external input or static off for at some point when you're making choices. After you've done what research you need to to get any extra information you need, step away from the computer, your cell phone, the TV, magazines, the stereo, all those cute-but-also-seriously-annoying inspiring quotes on everyone's Facebook, all of it. We all have a lot of input and constant feedback these days, and it can make it mighty tough to really think and focus on our own internal locus. If we want to really hear our own voices, we have to turn the volume of everything else down for a bit.</p> <h3>Take, Keep and Honor Your Own Core Inventory</h3> <p>One thing that can help, which we can do in advance of choices, is having a handle on the most core things we want and need in any sexual or big-time intimate situation: our ground zero, our personal manifesto. So, your basics, basics that will apply to nearly any situation, and maybe even to all of them, might be something like:</p> <ul> <li>That I and anyone else involved is very essentially physically and emotionally safe and feel good about ourselves</li> <li>That I am treated and respected as a whole, actual person, warts and all, and am doing the same for others</li> <li>That I don't give up or risk things that are of the utmost importance to me or ask anyone else to</li> <li>That going ahead with a given sexual or intimate experience, interaction or relationship seems more likely to be a positive for myself and anyone else, short-term and long-term, than a negative</li> <li>That any choice I make is in line with the core beliefs, values and goals I currently hold most dear</li> </ul> <p>Maybe your list looks like that, maybe it doesn't. What's vital is just that you come up with something for yourself that feels true to you and represents the most core things you, uniquely, want and need. So, give yourself a few hours, and create a short, basic list out, working on it until it's something that feels like a fit in terms of what it most important to you, and making sure it's broad enough that it really could fit most situations. Review it every now and then. These things will become things you won't have to strain to remember even in heated moments or when being turned on physically, emotionally or both is clouding your brain a bit (as it tends to do for any of us, no matter how old we are).</p> <p>That still won't dictate what you might choose in a given situation, as we can't really plan ahead completely for the wide array of different scenarios and contexts we might experience, like how having strong feelings for someone can change some of our priorities, having someone ask us  to do something we didn't even know about to consider before, or how another person's wants and needs will factor into choices we're making. But it is a framework we can use to help center ourselves when evaluating our choices and use to keep the things biggest for us in mind. Ultimately, anything that asks us to not be who we are, or to act against our most core personal values is almost always something we can know at the gate to steer away from, not towards.</p> <p>Over time, you might find you need to change up that list. And again, you also aren't going to be able to figure out all of this by yourself if there's another person involved: you're going to need to talk with them, find out how they feel, what they want and need, and how what you feel, want and need meshes with their stuff. That's especially important if and when it's not you, but someone else who'd be taking bigger risks than you, or where you'd be more likely to benefit from a situation than the other person would. If you don't feel able to talk or ask questions, or want to avoid <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3462"><dfn title="Various ways we express and share feelings or thoughts, such as through speech, written words or symbols, sign language, body language, touch or art.">communication</dfn></a>, that's obviously going to be a real problem, so that's another thing that can be a big cue that any kind of sex with someone is probably not a great idea until or unless you find that changes and you feel more comfortable communicating. (That can be one of the risks we take with sex, by the way: the risk of communicating openly and honestly, voicing things that may or may not be what someone else likes or wants to hear, or things that make us more vulnerable.)</p> <p><div class="pullquote"><hr /><div class="quotecontent"><strong>Just a Word on "But Everyone Else Is...."</strong> Life as a younger person can be like living in a fishbowl, where it's hard to know what's really outside of it. People tend to overestimate what everyone else is really doing, and also not recognize how many people aren't honest about their sexual lives, their sexual experiences, and how much information about other people's sexual lives is gossip, not reality. The media doesn't help: a lot of it only talks about young people and sex when they're talking about what young people are doing that's scary or risky or seen as socially unacceptable. A study of ten teens is often reported as <em>"Teens Do...."</em> whatever it is, making it seem like what those ten teens did is representative of all teens, when it usually isn't. You already know this, but what one person -- or even thousands of people -- are doing doesn't mean it's a right or good thing for another person. When you're potentially taking big risks, it's crucially important that the person you consider the most in your choices is you.</div><hr /></div></p> <h3>Flipping the Script and Wearing Someone Else's Shoes</h3> <p>Another decision-making trick to try is considering the polar opposite choice of the one you're actually considering. In other words, to help you clarify your thinking, and what you want and don't, what is or isn't right for you if, say, you were thinking about entering into a sexual situation with someone, think instead about NOT doing that, about walking totally away from that opportunity. How do you feel about that opposite situation? When you've thought and felt through that, revisit the other choice again: after thinking about it's opposite, how do you feel about it now?</p> <p>One more trick is to try and look at a situation from an outsider's perspective. For instance, let's say the thing you're thinking about is, instead, the thing your best friend or sibling is thinking about, and they're bringing it to you to ask for your advice. What does it look like from the outside-in, when it's about someone else, not you? What would you advise they do or think about? How would you feel about their choices with this situation?</p> <h3>Avoiding Black and White Thinking</h3> <p>If and when we're faced with choices around risk and our choices look very black and white, or like there's only this one or that one, rather than a range of options, we can know we're probably not thinking clearly. In any situation, there aren't usually just two choices and options, but far more.</p> <p>If it looks like that, step back and try and think about <em>all</em> your possible alternatives. If your brain feels stuck and you can't see them, know something is probably amiss and whatever the situation is, if you can, you need to get some more distance from it so you can think more creatively and openly.</p> <p>Part of avoiding the trap of black and white thinking also involves doing what we can to keep one given situation or choice in perspective, instead of making it into something way larger than it is. For example, not having sex with someone when we're afforded an opportunity doesn't mean <em>never</em> having sex with anyone ever: it only means not having sex with that person, at that time. Having one girlfriend react poorly to a request for adding a <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3356"><dfn title="A thin sheath or tube of latex or another material, worn over the penis during sex to prevent or reduce the risk of pregnancy and/or sexually transmitted infections. ">condom</dfn></a> doesn't mean every girlfriend will act that way so you should just go without because this is how it'll be with everyone, so what the hell. Opening our heart to one person doesn't mean we have to be that wide open with everyone. Not being okay with a level of risk with something now doesn't mean we'll never be. While we're certainly going to consider our life experiences to date when we're making choices, and we need to look at the big picture,there's a balance to be struck:  it's important to give the current situation at hand our focus and understand that unless we're taking about realistic long-term outcomes, projecting a future on to it based more in our emotional reactions than in reality isn't sound, and is also bound to make us feel panicked or distraught, which always makes it harder to make our best choices.</p> <p>One other kind of black and white thinking about risk is thinking that any given risk is a given: that if it's a risk, it WILL happen. But that's not what a risk is: a risk is something that likely could or might happen. Part of making decisions around risk involves figuring out how comfortable we are -- or are not --  not just with a possible outcome, but with a certain level of uncertainty; with things <em>not</em> being black and white.</p> <h3>A Time Machine Would Sure Be Handy.</h3> <p>When you're younger, many of the sexual choices you'll make involve potentially risking things or outcomes you haven't experienced yet, or taking risks to try and get or experience things you think will be what you want, or think you or others will like, but don't actually have the experience to know for sure (and might find out weren't at all like you expected). It's a lot easier for someone who has experienced something to know if they want it, can deal with possible outcomes, or if a given thing is really worth what they might risk for it. It's also challenging to figure out how much we care or don't about the impact something might have on our lives long-term when we aren't sure yet what we want our life to be like later, or can't even imagine being 30, 40 or 60.</p> <p>So, often you're going to have to be thinking ahead or in hypotheticals. What can you do? Try and identify and follow your gut feelings and stand by the things you know are already important to you. Revisit that inventory list we talked about up there. With a decision you have more time to make, or make more time for yourself to make, talk to people who have had those experiences, ideally finding folks to talk to for whom those experiences aren't fresh, but where they've had time to see how they panned out over years or decades, not just months, weeks or days. It's easy to say something worked out fine -- or didn't -- for us when we haven't lived with it for very long.</p> <p>It can help to try to visualize, in as much detail as possible, what your life would be like with certain outcomes. For instance, if possible pregnancy is what's on the table, try and create a realistic picture in your mind of you and your life next year with an infant, you at 20 with a toddler, you at 30 with someone soon to become a teen you're responsible for and who takes up a huge amount of real estate in your life. If a possible outcome of a choice is having someone you're seeing now ditch you because you said no to something they wanted, something which might obviously hurt quite a lot now, what about a year from now, five years from now, ten years from now? How will that outcome really impact your whole life, versus the impact of doing something you really don't want to right now or getting stuck in a crummy relationship now? This kind of role-playing is really helpful in making sound choices.</p> <p>When a risk is optional, also remember that if and when we really can't get any kind of sense of what taking it or it's possible outcomes mean to us, we can always choose to exempt ourselves from even being in that position in the first place. Sometimes if we're faced with a given situation or opportunity, it can feel like we have to go forward because here we are, and here it is, right now, so we must have to do it right now, right? Nope: we don't. We can usually always opt out, slow down or turn back. That's one way we can always respond to what's right here, right now.</p> <h3>Trying to Avoid Big Bummers or Being The Big Bummer</h3> <p>One of the issues that tends to come up when I work with young people around sexual risk-taking, especially those taking big risks they either don't really want to, or know really aren't smart for them to take, is disappointment: a fear someone else will be disappointed or that a given person will themselves experience disappointment, and a deep <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3393"><dfn title="A feeling of strongly wanting something. In the context of sex, desire can be a strong feeling of a physical and psychological want for any kind of sex. ">desire</dfn></a> to avoid disappointing or being disappointed.</p> <p>In a world and a time where a whole lot of emphasis is put on the value of sexual satisfaction, and what satisfaction even is tends to be oversimplified and made more about things than people (like "getting" sex or "giving an <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3354"><dfn title="An event typically in response to physical or intellectual sexual stimulation, controlled by the involuntary nervous system. Orgasm often results in muscle contractions in and around the genitals, other muscular spasms throughout the body, and a feeling of sexual and/or tension release.">orgasm</dfn></a>," rather than experiencing the wide range of sex and sexuality and any person you're exploring it with, for example), that's not surprising. And when you put all of that in the context of being in a space and time of life where social status and interactions tend to be more intense and super-important, and where so much judgment is put on your sexual value, status and choices, it's pretty easy to see why so many people can be so concerned about disappointing or experiencing disappointment around sex.</p> <p>So, you might worry about the disappointment of not engaging in a sexual activity or experience you really want, and maybe not getting the chance to have the same opportunity again. You might worry about saying no -- or yes -- to something someone else wants sexually, or putting a limit on something someone else wanted to be limitless, and them feeling disappointment with you because of that. You might worry that not being open to taking big risks means someone else will be disappointed in you because, to them, that means not trusting or valuing them.</p> <p>Disappointment will not bring anyone's world to a catastrophic end. We will all experience disappointment in our lives, sometimes a lot of it, and unless we're a total hot mess, we'll get through it, often without it being that big of a deal for that long. It's okay to feel disappointed, and it's okay to disappoint others. We absolutely will never be able to please everyone, or even always please any one person, no matter what we do or don't do.  In "The Usual Error," a book on interpersonal communication by <a href="">Pace and Kyeli</a>, they have a chapter called <em>Giving Permission to Disappoint</em>.</p> <p>In it, they say:</p> <blockquote><p>When we disappoint each other, we lose our ability to solve the problem at hand because we get caught up in how we feel about the disappointment. We may feel ashamed to disappoint our partner or afraid of admitting our own limitations and needs. Or, if we've been disappointed, we may feel conflict between our perfect concept of our partner and the reality of the disappointment. We may paint the other person as somehow lacking because they didn't live up to our mythical expectations.</p> <p>With all those distractions, it's a wonder we manage to solve any problems at all! If instead we give each other permission to disappoint, we can move beyond the distracting issues and deal with what's really going on... You can give yourself permission to disappoint others, too! Everyone disappoints others sometimes, everyone makes mistakes, and feeling bad about it isn't going to do you -- or them -- any good. Giving yourself permission to disappoint is giving yourself permission to be human, to be flawed, and to be yourself.</p></blockquote> <p>And, of course, in this context, giving yourself permission to disappoint, or others to disappoint you also means not taking big risks with potentially bad or unwanted outcomes just to try and avoid experiencing disappointment or disappointing someone else. And when we're talking about sex, that kind of permission has extra benefits, like helping you or partners worry less about performance and focus more on pleasure, like being able to really be yourself sexually instead of trying to be who someone else wants you to be or trying to be some kind of perfect lover, like allowing your body to have whatever limitations it does rather than trying to do things you can't or that don't feel good.</p> <p>Of course, the other thing to keep in mind about disappointment at a given time, is that it can sometimes mean NOT feeling more disappointed later (even though, again, it's okay to feel disappointment at any time, and is pretty much a totally unavoidable part of life now and then). For instance, you might not feel disappointed at the time you choose to engage in sex that's not quite right or safe for you because you got to experience the sex you wanted, but feel disappointed later about that choice because it meant feelings or outcomes that sucked.</p> <h3><span>Passivity Bites (not in a fun way)</span></h3> <p>Let's talk for a sec about our imaginary friend Fate again. The idea of "letting Fate decide," isn't just a problem because fate isn't deciding anything, people are, but also because what we're doing most of the time if we go that way is choosing to be passive: choosing to let someone else decide for us, or choosing to pretend certain risks or outcomes that are real aren't and create an imaginary situation that's not what's really going on.  Choosing not to empower ourselves. That passivity can not only put us or others in harms way, it can also mean we -- on purpose or without intent -- avoid taking responsibility for and ownership of our actions and their outcomes.</p> <p>That might seem like a good thing sometimes, especially if we really want to do something, but don't feel up to taking ownership if something goes wrong.  But I'd posit that it's really not. When we do things that have outcomes we want, when we make choices well and things go well as a result, we usually want to own responsibility for them: it feels good to take that credit. When we do or choose things that don't go well or go badly, it <em>won't</em> feel good in a whole lot of ways to feel responsbile, but what taking responsibility in those situations can do is make it far more likely we can figure out and be real about where we messed up, and figure out how to change things up, so in the future we won't keep making the same mistakes again and again and again. The other thing that can happen when one person in an interaction is passive and ditches responsibility is that the other person either gets all the credit for something that goes really well or, more commonly, shoulders all the blame when things go poorly.</p> <p>When we're talking about any kind of sex or intimacy with someone else, decision-making and ownership of all of our choices is also a big part of what makes it doing it <em>together</em> in the first place. In other words, if we had sex with someone, that "with" part isn't just about both of us being there, or both of our bodies doing certain things.  It's also about both of us being truly present, making active choices together, and sharing responsibility, whether that interaction is in an ongoing relationship or a short-term hookup. In most contexts, it's safe to say that ditching that shared ownership is not only going to make us (or the other person) feel like we weren't or aren't really all there, it'll tend to make us feel less good about the good stuff, and worse about the bad stuff.</p> <p><div class="pullquote"><hr /><div class="quotecontent">You probably know this already, but if and when booze or recreational drugs are in the mix, making sexual decisions well gets much, much harder, even if it doesn't feel that way at the time. Those things do change and impair our judgement, and often not for the better: most will make most people feel more uninhibited most of the time, which can feel liberating, but at the same time, it can make us feel like things which are a big deal to us aren't in the moment; that things that are real risks aren't so risky after all. This is a big part of why sexual violence increases so much when alcohol is in the mix, and why things like condom use and good communication with <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3340"><dfn title="To agree to do something or give permission. In the context of sex, a person is giving full consent/is consenting when they freely and actively agree to do something sexual with someone else; however, the person still has the right to change their mind at any point. A person is NOT consenting if they do not actively agree, have been forced or pressured in some way or are in a state where they are incapable of full consent (such as when asleep, under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or below the age of consent). ">consent</dfn></a> go down.</div><hr /></div></p> <h3>Identify Weaknesses To Create Strengths</h3> <p>Learning to make choices when there are risks involved is a lifelong process. If we work on it, we tend to get better as we grow. It's not something anyone is going to walk into and be a genius at right from the gate: it takes practice.</p> <p>Even then, very few of us are flawless, perfect, expert decision-makers, especially when the stakes are high in any way. Getting good at this involves having opportunities to make big decisions -- something most young people are all going to be really new at, especially young people who haven't had the chance to have a lot of freedoms <em>and</em> responsibilities yet -- and having practice at working choices through. But even when we've had plenty of both of those things, most of us, if not all, are going to have parts of this we're not great at; particular things, contexts or ways of feeling or thinking that are a real thorn in the side of assessing our risks and making choices which involve risk.</p> <p>If you pay attention to the patterns of your decision-making when risk is involved, you might be able to identify things that mess you up. Like, you might be someone who gets really reactive or caves to other people's emotions or wants, for instance, or someone who finds your logical thinking breaks down when certain insecurities you've got get triggered. Or, maybe you're someone who can tend to <em>over</em>think if you take <em>too</em> much time with these choices, or who just shuts down or panics when you feel like you have to make a big choice quickly. Perhaps you find that when it comes to something you want or idealize, you're prone to engage in magical thinking, where you see things the way you want to see them, rather than how they will realistically pan out.</p> <p>Whatever your own messup metric is, see if you can't identify it, and then make room for it, rather than beating yourself up about it. When other people are involved, for example, and we know something trips us up, we can tell them that  thing makes it harder for us to make choices so they can take that into account and do what they can to help work with that challenge. We can better choose the environments or conditions we put ourselves in where we have to make big decisions so we can be more likely to have conditions that work best for us as unique individuals, like choosing the kinds of communication channels that works best for us or talking about things in places where they can get less heated.  It's always not only okay to tailor all of this as best we can to make room for the things we're not so great at, doing that can help us turn those weaknesses into strengths.</p> <h3>Terrified of ANY Risk?</h3> <p>The popular notion that all young people are always ready to dive head-first into risky things is flawed in many ways, including that it doesn't address people who feel terrified of any kind of risk at all, sometimes to the degree that they feel unable to fully participate in their lives. </p> <p><span class="st">Anaïs Nin, who certainly knew a thing or twelve about risk-taking, once said, <em>"</em></span><em><span class="huge">And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.</span></em><span class="bodybold"><em>"</em>  In other words, feeling very afraid and trying to avoid all risk, trying to never, ever take any risks, can hurt us too, and can be scary, too. There can come a point where it feels like life is passing us by and that we've wound up protecting ourselves from things we actually want to experience. It's scary not to actively live our lives, after all; to non-participate in them. We're also very unlikely to have lives we like very much, or that have the things in them we want.</span> If we don't take some risks to connect with people, we run the risk of not connecting to anyone. If we never try out for the team or the play, we won't ever be able to get in. If we don't risk some growth that might be painful or uncomfortable, we risk not growing at all.</p> <p>I'm not talking about something like deciding that sex or sexual relationships just aren't for you right now because you know those aren't things you want, have interest in or feel ready for. I'm talking about not going for what you <em>do</em> want and <em>do</em> mostly feel ready for out of a strong fear about taking any kind of risk at all, even risks that are small, can be made smaller, or managed in ways that make <em>not</em> taking the risk more likely to bring about unwanted outcomes than taking it would.</p> <p>If you're feeling like this, think about what baby steps you can take outside your comfort zone: things you can  handle, even though they feel scary, but which with some extra support with, and some help managing, would probably be worth taking because they'd be more likely to get you what you want than not taking them. Where, when we do a pro and con list, the pros of taking a risk far outweigh the cons.</p> <p>Maybe, for example, you've really want to start exploring romantic or sexual relationships but you haven't been able to even get to know anyone because you're so terrified to risk rejection, you're waiting for everyone else to ask, instead of taking any initiative yourself. What about stepping just a little bit out of your comfort zone and just asking someone you like to hang out with you sometime, and telling a friend you're going to do that, and having them agree to be there for you to call no matter how it goes for support, maybe help cheerleading you to take that leap the day you decide you're going to? Or, maybe you want to communicate better about sex with partners, but feel afraid to even open your mouth. How about taking a step to start getting there by first talking to someone about sex where the states feel less high, like to a counselor, friend or sexual health clinician? Maybe you've had a great relationship going, one you and your partner really want to start exploring sexually, but you are terrified of pregnancy: what about a middle ground where you simply stick with exploring some kinds of sex together you both want to, but the kinds that don't pose any pregnancy risks?</p> <p>By all means, some people suffer from conditions or histories that make this way tougher. If you think or know you have an anxiety disorder or another health condition that can make all of this trickier, were raised in a way that instilled giant fears around risk, or have experienced <a class="glossary-term" href="/glossary/term/3388"><dfn title="A serious or critical physical and/or emotional injury or physically and/or emotionally painful experience.">trauma</dfn></a> that's resulted in strong fears or, alternately, an apathy, around risks, seek out qualified help and support. We all have our limitations and our big issues, and no perky little article can just poof the big ones away.</p> <h3>Perfect Isn't Possible (P.S. Mucking It Up Sometimes is Also Okay)</h3> <p>You <strong>are</strong> going to make mistakes. Everyone -- <strong>everyone</strong> -- does. There are both going to be risks you're really glad you took, and risks you wish you hadn't. You're probably going to be really good at making some choices with some risks, and really crappy at others. You've got to know all of that because it's probably true, but also because putting pressure on yourself to be perfect, to always make perfect choices, isn't helpful or realistic. That kind of pressure not only makes us feel like crud, it makes us very likely to feel unable to make any choices or to really live our lives fully, and it can also sometimes make us feel like we shouldn't bother even trying to make choices well because our bar is set to high for us to be able to reach no matter what we do.</p> <p>The goal here isn't to be perfect or to aim to avoid any unwanted outcomes in life: that's just not possible. The goal is to do the best we can with the abilities and resources we have to make good choices when facing risks, to limit situations with risk we know or suspect we're just not ready to deal with or can't or don't want to handle, and to gradually get better and better at evaluating our risks and making sound choices with them over time. That you <em>can</em> do.</p> <p><strong>Want some extra helps with making these kinds of decisions?  <strong><a href="">Click here</a></strong> for a cribsheet of lists, helps and walkthroughs from sections of this piece. Or, check out the following links here and elsewhere on the web:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="">Yes, No, Maybe So: A Sexual Inventory Stocklist</a></li> <li><a href="">Sorting Maybe from Can't-Be: Reality Checking Partnered Sex Wants & Ideals</a></li> <li><a href="">Ready or Not? The Scarleteen Sex Readiness Checklist</a></li> <li><a href="">Whoa, There! How to Slow Down When You're Moving Too Fast</a></li> <li><a href="">Effortless Decision-Making (zenhabits)</a></li> <li><a href="">The Science of Making Decisions (Newsweek)</a></li> <li><a href="">A Model for Decision Making (Vancouver Coastal Health)</a></li> <li><a href="">Tough Choices: How Making Decisions Tires Your Brain (Scientific American)</a></li> </ul> Etc Politics Relationships Sexual Health Sexuality choices conflict decision-making decisions development education feelings growing up help learning life life skills messages risk risk-taking safety sex sexual sexuality skills support teens tools working it out young adults young people Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:53:52 +0000 Heather Corinna 5373 at	http://www.scarleteen.com/taxonomy/term/4355/all/feed?theme=scarleteen_textonly	<urn:uuid:95eb54e7-38ab-4add-ac36-163597219eea>	en	0.95826	0.661125
32 turns of stall in the Hail: Walrein Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Dragontamer, Aug 27, 2007. 1. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 I've been using this Walrein with very much success in ShoddyBattle, very few things are getting through it anymore. I started off a little differently, but for the past day or so, there haven't been any changes to this set. Wait, stalling in D/P? Yes, it is possible. If all is set-up correctly, you will indeed stall for 32 turns, and there are a few ways to break out of the stall cycle, but I'll get to that later. For now, here's the set. EDIT: If this thing needs a name, I'll go by "StallRein". Seems like most other people have picked it up already. Personally speaking, I would go with WALLrein, or Walrein for short. :-p Walrein (♂) @ Leftovers Ability: Ice Body EVs: 220 HP/244 Def/46 Spd Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Substitute - Protect - Roar - Surf / Blizzard / Toxic Defense Tier Analysis With the above EVs, this Walrein is Defense tier 123.25 and Sp. Def tier 119.67. This is a higher score than a 252/252 Bold Weezing (123.07 Def, 115.22 Sp. Def), but below a 252/252 Gliscor. While it has more weaknesses than Weezing, its special defense is more well rounded. Dusknoir (a well rounded wall) scores (122.63, 119.68) when 252/252 +Def. Essentially, this Walrein is stronger than it in physical defense, while nearly equal in special defense. Unavailable in this analysis is of course the effects of Ice Body + Leftovers. Restoring 12% health each turn is quite a massive advantage over these other walls, who would otherwise be 0% as hail cancels out their leftovers, or only 6% in typical circumstances. Full Analysis With the above EVs and 31 IVs in everything, Walrein will outspeed 0 Skarmory and Swampert. With the magic HP EVs listed above, Substitute will cost you 104 HP per turn, while Leftovers will give you 26, and then Ice Body will give you 26 more per turn. So lets do a little math here, shall we? With the above EVs, you hit 416 HP. Turn 1: Substitute. Lose 104 HP. Gain 26 from Leftovers. Gain 26 from Ice Body Turn 2: Protect. Gain 26 from Leftovers. Gain 26 from Ice Body. Turn 3: Substitute again. 26 + 26 + 26 + 26 is... 104 HP. Wow. Isn't that great? As Substitute has a max of 16 PP, and Protect has a max of 16 PP as well, this gives rise to the title of this thread: 32 turns of stall. But wait... there are common counters to substitutes. Namely, phazers, double-hit, taunt, and pokemon that are faster than you. I'll address these one at a time. 1. Phazers: It helps to use protect to help scout, but murphy's law states that Protect won't help you all the time. Walrein is base 65 speed, and with the EVs, they jump you above the base 70 tier of pokemon. Meaning you will roar before Skarmory and Swampert. In my experience, these are the most common phazers. Granted, there are much faster pokemon that can roar... and skarm can invest speed EVs instead of HP/Def... but these all will cause a disadvantage in one form or another. (Speedy pokemon tend to be too fragile to phaze, and putting EVs from Def/HP into Speed just to be a Walrein counter for Skarm seems a bit silly) If worst comes to worst and you predict a roar, neither of them will like a base 120 100% accurate Blizzard as you leave. 2. Double-Hit / Triple-Kick: Ah, the bane of substitutes... normally at least. But there's a problem with Double-Hit. Technician Choice Band Adamant Ambipom deals 76 - 89 x 2 damage to this Walrein, meaning that the most powerful Double-Hit pokemon will NOT break through your substitute. Meaning you will out-stall and 16 turns later Ambipom will die from hail. According to Metalkid's calculator, Adamant Choice-Band 252 Atk Hitmontop Triple Kick will do 32 - 38 damage (avg 35). On the second hit, that becomes 59 - 70 (average 64.5). The third hit will strike for some 30% damage. One little problem here. On the 2nd hit of an Adamant Choice Band 252 Atk Hitmontop... TripleKick still has not broken the sub... at least on the average. After 2 hits, you're only doing 91 to 108 damage. You need to deal 104 damage to break the sub. You're only dealing 99 average with a triangle distribution. (meaning there is a very small chance that you're actually going break this sub) Granted, if you add Choice Band + Technician, Hitmontop will break through on the 3rd hit dealing some 30 to 35% damage. But then you get a free switchin to (ghost pokemon of choice), and Walrein lives to fight another day. Needless to say, under typical circumstance, you will not break this Walrein's substitute. First of all, you can protect to scout for Taunt, then switch to an appropriate counter while they waste a turn taunting you. Second, the king of taunting pokemon is BulkyGyara, who is 3-hit KOed by Blizzard in hail (cancels out leftovers)... while Bulky Gyara is doing 19.21% - 22.41% with Earthquake while you heal 12% each turn. Thats like a 10 hit KO. Don't even think about waterfall. Stone Edge is a possible 3-hit KO dealing 40.38% - 47.36%.. So if you blizzard on the turn they taunt, you'll be ahead by 1 turn and essentially beat Gyarados. Dragon Dance is only an issue if they start to Stone Edge you. Walrein will ROFL at both earthquake and waterfall. DD-Tyranitar may cause problems, especially STAB Super-effective Stone Edge as well as losing the hail advantage and Blizzard dropping its accuracy rate and increasing his Sp. Defense. However, Surf is a 3-hit KO on the 0/0 def version, so if you have a substitute up you Walrein will be able to dish out damage before he leaves. I wouldn't worry about taunt here. Keep this in mind in Surf vs Blizzard debates. 4. Pokemon who will hit you before you get the substitute up. There are two cases where this matters: * You haven't started the substitute / protect engine yet * A slower pokemon broke your sub before he died from hail / poison / burn / whatever, and the opponent switched in a faster pokemon. All other times, you will be able to infinitely use substitute -> protect -> substitute -> protect till they die. (or you use it for 32 turns and you're out of PP) And even if they're faster, it doesn't matter if they hit you or not. What matters is if they hit you for more than 74% damage. Because once you get that substitute up, they're done for in 16 turns with the hail... unfortunately, Metalkid's calculator just died on me right now. So I won't be doing this section to check for who this Walrein can safely start the cycle with. Regardless, you can see that this Walrein is quite bulky indeed, as its substitutes survive Adamant Choice Band Hitmontop Triple-Kick.... Okay, Damage Calculations for this beast. Keep in mind that you regain 12% health each turn, and can use protect to gain a free 12% health. Choice Band Adamant 252 Earthquake: 50.72% - 59.62%. If you catch him on the switch, you can safely substitute afterwards and start the stall cycle. Choice Band Adamant 252 Outrage: 60.58% - 71.39%. You still can safely get your substitute up and out-stall him. ChainChomp Draco Meteor: 56.97% - 67.07%. ChainChomp Fire Blast: 32.69% - 38.46% Needless to say, all forms of Garchomp are effectively walled. If he uses swords dance, your cycle has begun and he'll die in 16 turns, unable to break the infinite subs. Choice Band Heracross Close Combat: 118.03% - 138.70% Choice Scarf Heracross Close Combat: 79.09% - 93.03% Choice Band Heracross Megahorn: 58.89% - 69.47% Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge: 65.63% - 77.16% So obviously, the only problem with Heracross is either GUTS Close Combat or Choice Band Close Combat. Predict the close combat and switch in your ghost pokemon, and fire back with something good. Or, carry Gliscor around to help make Stealth Rocks, counter Heracross and do something to T-Tar. This walrein is Heracross weak. Bulky Gyarados + Dragon Dance + Stone Edge: 54.81% - 64.42% Bulky Gyarados + 2 DD + Stone Edge: 72.84% - 85.82% Bulky Gyarados + 3 DD + Stone Edge: 90.87% - 106.97% Lesson? Don't let Gyarados Dragon Dance 3 times while you do nothing. Lol. Even with a Dragon Dance, Gyarados is walled by this Walrein and you can start the subsitute/protect combo, and wait for 16 turns for Gyarados to die. Walrein's EVs are geared towards the physical side. However, you should know what to do when up against a Starmie... I'm only going to focus on Thunderbolt... Grass Knot is not working correctly in Metalkid's calculator :-( Spinner Set Thunderbolt: 37.50% - 43.99% SpecStar Thunderbolt: 68.99% - 81.01% Expert Belt Starmie Thunderbolt: 55.05% - 64.66% The flaming monkey returns! Pure Physical Life-Orb Close Combat: 82.69% - 97.36% Pure Physical Life-Orb Stone Edge: 46.15% - 54.33% MixApe Life-Orb Close Combat: 67.55% - 79.57% Life-Orb 252 Cross Chop: 56.73% - 66.59% Life-Orb 252 Thunder-punch: 64.18% - 75.48% Life-Orb 80 Thunderbolt: 74.04% - 87.02% Needless to say, its the special version of Electivire that you need to worry about. The good news about everything that beats this thing... is that they all follow a very distinct pattern. Close Combat and Electric attacks. Which is why I include Rotom on my team. Just kidding :-p But essentially, you can more or less predict the attack comming, as without STAB they are not going to hurt you enough to prevent you from using a substitute. For example, Cross Chop Electivire just doesn't cut it. Thunderpunch Infernape doesn't cut it, and even Stone Edge Heracross doesn't cut it. 5. The last thing to obviously worry about is weather changers. There really isn't a thing I can say here... aside that Rain Dance doesn't hurt Walrein that badly and is beneficial to Surf at least. (Swift Swim Kabutops Stone Edge raping your hail team aside...) That is a solid thing that you can't really stop aside from putting Abomasnow back into the fray. Again, T-Tar is quite dangerous as it possesses 4 of the possible ways to counter this Walrein... and can execute up to 3 of them at the same time. (Roar, Taunt, Weather Change, and can be faster than Walrein). Aside from that, switch in on Blissey or whatever you can safely counter (Weavile is one of them), roar Blissey away if necessary, and start stalling. Pretty basic strategy. The few other pokemon that has managed to out-stall this guy is... Articuno -- Pressure, Roost, and stalls like a mo-fo as well. Thrives in the hail. Frankly you can't touch this thing at all. Stealth Rocks + roar helps here, but no real direct damage. Scizor -- Roost Scizor is immune to toxic. Not much you can do... Acknowledgments goes to OmegaDonut for recommending roar on this beast, exponentially increasing its usefulness. Here is a log of Walrein in action stalling a team out 6-0. I haven't been logging all of my battles and probably want to know about other specifics. 1. Rapid Spinners -- Starmie is countered by any ghost pokemon who knows T-Bolt. That includes Gengar and Frosslass. I also run Pursuit Weavile because I get greedy with killing Starmie. Donphan is killed by Surf / Blizzard, and Hitmontop is also similarly owned by Ghosts who know Psychic (like... Gengar) 2. Roar/Whirlwind keeps getting brought up, but before you do so, please tell me a good roar/whirlwind pokemon faster than Skarmory that at the same time is good at typical phazing duties. Anyway, the log doesn't show any complicated cases like those, but as shown in this post, those situations are thought of already. 2. Stallion Stallion Killing is my business, and business is good! is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner Jun 11, 2006 This seems like a great idea, especially in a hail team. I might try one sometime. 2 Questions 1) Is it easy enough to get in?? 2) If for some reason you don't have the option of stalling, does it still function well in the team 3. pika_power Aug 25, 2007 Very nice, but how do you keep it hailing nonstop? Do you set up an abomnasnow first? 4. Thorns Feb 17, 2007 5. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 1) Think 252/252 Bold Swampert, except stronger on the defenses. Think 252/252 Bold Weezing... but still stronger but without the levitate. And as long as they do less than 50% damage to you, you will be able to switch in, use protect to gain another 12.5% health, then use Substitute and continue the combination. (EDIT: with Stealth Rocks, you can switch in and initiate this sequence if they do 31% or less damage) I have also been able to switch into Weavile several times. Brick Break is too weak to destroy Walrein. I haven't run damage calculations, but the weaviles I've faced haven't been able to stop Walrein from switching in. (I'd like to check up on Choice Band Weavile however). 2) When stalling fails (like when I was vs a rain dance team), I still found use in phazing the opponent away to scout their team in the early game. Knowing all 6 opponent pokemon is a decent advantage... although I would do everything in my power to ensure that Abomasnow doesn't die early to restart the hail when necessary. 6. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 I probably should tell a little bit more how I do it... 1. Abomasnow: Necessary. Duh. I run subseeder, but only because ShoddyBattlers tend to leave Blissey in while I subseed. >_> 2. Tentacruel: Near Perfect switch-in for Abomasnow. I have rapid-spin + Toxic Spikes. I don't care for Heracross because by the time they switch in, they'll be out-stalled by the Walrein engine. Resists fighting, fire, and steel (Metagross _really_ ruins your day) 3. Walrein stalling engine. I wait for a switch-in, then stall for 32 turns while chipping away 6% of the opponent's health per turn. Roar the walls out, and continue to force Toxic Spikes upon the opponent. 7. Damanzi Feb 22, 2007 Pretty much fantastic. 8. Gmax Gmax kuahahahaha is a Forum Moderator Alumnus Oct 29, 2006 Boy DT, this is really good. Who says Stall doesn't work in D/P!! I bet you could use this really well in conjunction with CB Aqua Jet Azumarill. All the damage from Toxic Spikes will lower a lot of pokes into KO range after some time. Then bring out Azumarill for the sweep! 9. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 Lol, I forgot about the possible Toxic moveset that I used to run before I added Tentacruel + Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes is so much more deadly... and Blizzard/Surf is useful. But I added the mention of Toxic on this guy if anyone is interested. 10. Queen Oct 1, 2006 Very interesting and very innovative! I'll definitely consider tinkering around with this set, but more importantly I'd love to play against it! If you ever see me on Shoddy DT please feel free to send a challenge my way as I love playing new and creative sets! 11. Luminous Feb 21, 2007 Well, this looks really nice! Like you stated, Tyranitar is a problem. Keeping Abom alive too. You can't risk switching in Abom too much so essentially he is somewhat of a dead weight. 12. iruchii Jul 9, 2007 I have faced two Walreins, and one of them really gave me trouble. [the other not so much] But now I see why. It does, indeed, sound like a great staller. We just need some more calculations to see if it's really worth it. 13. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 I'll tell you this from my experience. When Metalkid's calculator comes back up I'll confirm them. 1. I can substitute after a Garchomp Earthquake, Fire Blast, Fire Fang, or Draco Meteor. Set up your sub, or blizzard them to death. I'll have to check Outrage on a damage calculator... as no one seems to want to lock Garchomp into an Outrage vs a hail team. 2. Walrein survives a Specsmence Draco Meteor... not by much. But enough to Blizzard him on that turn. 3. Flare Blitz from Infernape is weak. Close Combat on the other hand dishes out some serious damage. 4. I've survived Scarf Heracross Stone Edges and Megahorns, but never a Close Combat :-( 5. 104 subs means Blissey does not break the subs. 6. I've barely survived a Magnezone Thunderbolt just once. 14. CardsOfTheHeart Aug 21, 2007 In the D/P analysis, it is listed that Steel types will usually counter Walrein, most notably (in my mind) Metagross. I decided to run some figures to see just how much of a threat Metagross actually is. Here's what I found. Metagross's Meteor Mash vs this Walrein (assuming Hail): --Standard CBGross (Choice Band, Adamant, 232 Atk EVs): 51.44-60.58% (In the hail, that's a 2HKO roughly 1/4 of the time.) --Standard Agiligross (252 Atk EVs): 34.86-41.11% (not even a 3HKO) (Life Orb adds roughly another 11-12%, which would make it a guaranteed 3HKO.) --Standard Special Attacking Gross's Grass Knot vs Walrein (Life Orb, Modest, 252 SpAtk EVs): 60.82-71.39% (2HKO) Not as bad as I thought it would be, but that could be my ignorance showing itself--I'm not sure. On the other hand, Walrein's Surf can retaliate against Metagross for 38.19-44.78%, a 3HKO. (41-48.08% on standard Agiligross) HOWEVER, Hail damage and Subs aren't being factored in those calculations. Actually, the Grass Knot calculation doesn't really matter, as this Walrein can outrun that Metagross. The CB Gross is still faster, though, so it might be an idea to put 8 Def EVs into Spd to outrun that set. Agiligross causes significant problems once it either opens with Agility or catches on to the plan and uses Agility on a Protect. Well, that's not bad considering that Metagross is supposed to counter Walrein. Oh, Dragontamer wants to check on CB Weavile's Brick Break? That's 43.99-51.68% damage on this Walrein. EDIT: I've been using Metalkid for all of these calculations; what's stopping you from using it, Dragontamer? 15. Lemmiwinks MkII Lemmiwinks MkII Jun 14, 2007 I don't think Metagross will pose that much of a problem to this set. With the EVs you've given it, I can't see CB Meteor Mash/Thunderpunch doing more than ~60% if that, which leaves plenty of HP for the stall. Also, if the opponent is Meteor Mashing it is bound to miss eventually, which would REALLY help your cause. Even one miss may make enough difference to allow you to stall something else later on. This actually brings me to my most pressing concern, which is what your strategy is once Walrein has completed its stall, which won't last forever. It is important that your other three Pokemon are well balanced enough to take on whatever OU team you come across (I'm assuming OU here as you have mentioned many OU Pokemon as potential threats), with particular consideration going into the fact that Aboma's Hail will be hurting all the non-Ice Pokemon on your team just as much as your opponent. EDIT: Beaten quite badly by CardsofTheHeart on the Metagross problem, but those numbers confirm what I said about the CB version. Life Orb Meta will die to the stall even faster, so you should rejoice if you come across that variant. A surprise Choice Specs Grass Knot could cause problems obviously, but you could use Magnezone or Dugtrio for revenge kills. 16. Deucalion2 Feb 23, 2007 falls over with shock OMG. That set is EXACTLY the same as one I was testing a few days ago in the Battle Tower with a hail team, right down to the last EV. I used Blizzard by the way, because Chomp is spammed there. Two observations: Non-Surf variants should really avoid TauntApe. He is capable of smashing the Subs, Taunting, and then wiping you out. Toxic doesn't work that well. Too many steel types, other poisons, Guts users, etc, running around. Tends to do more harm than good. Other than that, it works like a dream. (Albeit a frosty one) 17. Butterfree Aug 10, 2007 i was playing this and i found a variation of this for a sandstorm team shuckle @lefties bold nature this works great and allows almost the same idea as walrien but for a sandstorm team, although it does run into trouble with phazers after this depending on damage being dealt by the opponent i sub into bliss and use aroma and bring him back in also if u dont want to use rest u could replace it with something like gyro ball and use a wishbliss to heal it 18. Kimi3013 Jun 6, 2007 I was thinking about looking into something like this, just didn't have the time to but numbers to it. Seems great that it works, and I'll be using one in a hail team I'm gonna design. 19. darkie darkie park the car then we start rhyming, ya bish Public Relations Dec 25, 2005 This thing is annoying. I know this from experience. 20. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 Not quite. If Metagross comes in as a counter, you can protect every other turn to essentially gain 25% health every 2 turns. When he deals 60% damage to you, you gain back 12% ... I assume you factored this step in already. Then you protect, and heal back another 12%. Then you surf, and then another 60% damage. Alternatively, you can substitute on the first turn, then wait for the hail to kick in and kill metagross 16 turns later. So the CB version is a 3-hit KO or 32-hit KO if you know how to handle him (and if he indeed only does some 50-60% damage) The webpage died when I was making this post. I was able to use it early on for double-hit and triple-kick calculations. My other 3 pokemon are as follows: 1. Choice Scarf Weavile -- Specsmence still causes trouble, and if I run across one I need backup. Garchomp and ChainChomp are out-stalled by this guy, so scarf-chomp isn't a problem. Weavile also works as an excellent DD-Tar counter, as it takes too many DDs for T-Tar to get above a Scarf-weavile's speed. With spikes, this weavile breaks any other weavile with brick-break, and demolishes any psychic pokemon. An early counter for Flamethrower Azelf is Abomasnow (lead) -> Tentacruel (resists fire) -> Weavile (immune to psychic) -> Pursuit (OHKO). So even without walrein, this Weavile is quite worthy of the slot, and is even better as I clean up at the end. 2. Choice Scarf Adaptability PorygonZ -- A well balanced pokemon, with access to Blizzard / Thunderbolt. Switch in on gengar, destroy with Blizzard or Dark Pulse. Granted, Blizzard is still weaker than tri-attack, but Blizzard rapes everything especially from 252 Modest PorygonZ. Also it counters Trick-Alakazam while Walrein is doing his job. Protect to scout for the trick, switch to Porygon-Z and pwn. My other clean-up pokemon. After stalling for 32-turns, I need speed to finish the sweep. A physical and special choice sweeper are just what I need. 3. Frosslass with brightpowder / NeverMeltIce -- If you aren't playing with Hax items, use NeverMeltIce. Brightpowder increases evasion by another 10%, making a ton of attacks miss with Snow Cloak + Brightpowder. Destiny Bond + Blizzard/Thunderbolt makes it a nice filler pokemon as well. Essentially, two speeders and one support pokemon. Frosslass switches in on fighting pokemon, and with Brightpowder + Snow Cloak the accuracy of Stone Edge drops down to some 54% (at least on Shoddy. I don't know the precise mechanics in the game) So even if they out-predict the switch, it is only a coin-flip chance that they are going to hit you. Notable pokemon this guy switches in on SpecsLucario and Heracross if Walrein didn't finish the job. You can't rely on the miss-rate of Stone Edge, but it will eventually save your ass. And the chance of that happening seems to beat out any alternative item combination. Perhaps now you see why Metagross gives problems to my team >.> EDIT: Oh yeah, and walls like Blissey and Cresselia are subseeded by Abomasnow. So really, you can cover all your bases with a hail-team. 21. Lemmiwinks MkII Lemmiwinks MkII Jun 14, 2007 Interesting, but in addition to Metagross you may also have problems with CB T-tar, as your team has no Rock resist and four weaks. An opponent could bring it in on Abomasnow or Porygon-Z and unleash Stone Edge without fear. You say you have Weavile to revenge kill DD versions which is fine, but CB versions have no set up to lose so can just switch in and out freely. Relying on a 46% miss rate with Froslass is also bad for obvious reasons, as you have already mentioned. T-tar could cause trouble even when it isn't carrying any moves to immobilize Walrein. Your Walrein set will be able to work to its full potential, and I think it has a lot, if you can find a way to deal with all of its potential threats with your remaining Pokemon, or a team that benefits hugely from having its most debilitating weaknesses easily dealt with by Walrein. Unfortunately I see this team running into a dead end against one or two OU staples. Love the idea and the thread BTW. Good job. 22. DEL337ED Jun 30, 2007 Hey dragontamer, I would just like to say nice idea here. I have first-hand experience facing this set - if you don't have a good counter, it will stall the shit out of you (as I found out on Shoddybattle). 23. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 Frosslass is a partial revenge-contingency to T-Tar, and doesn't work 100% of the time. It has a _very_ strange feel to it. Frosslass is faster than T-Tar, and worst comes to worst you can shove it with Blizzard / thunderbolt before you go, giving PorygonZ and Weavile the damage they need to OHKO him. But... it is unlikely that the opponent is willing to sacrifice T-Tar without scouting for Destiny Bond. CB versions will die as you spam Destiny Bond, frosslass is faster and thus will take him out. DD versions will die to weavile later. (late game weavile / porygon sweeps) When you have frosslass, it all comes down to luck. Fortunately, it isn't my only contingency vs T-Tar. Overall, my team can work together to bring down the threat, even though there isn't any 1 pokemon that will counter T-Tar. It isn't perfect... but at least I have a plan against T-Tar. I remember that battle :-p It was when i learned that Chainchomp cant do anything to this set. I was able to sub after you used Draco-Meteor :-) 24. Chill Jun 22, 2007 I call this for the next breeding week. :P Spikes may be the better option over toxic spikes. As was mentioned there a lot of steel types and they just asorbed the toxic spikes wasting your turn(s) spent laying them down. 25. Dragontamer Jun 9, 2007 Only poison pokemon absorb toxic spikes. Pokemon that tend to give me problems in that are are Roserade... and Venomoth >_> But really, it has to be a non-levitating non-flying poison pokemon to absorb the Toxic Spikes. Most poison pokemon suck... and the only good ones seem to Levitate (Gengar, Weezing). Again, Roserade is perhaps the only decent toxic-absorber, along with Tentacruel (who can then rapid spin) But really, only poison pokemon steal those toxic spikes. Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)	http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/32-turns-of-stall-in-the-hail-walrein.28213/	<urn:uuid:608152dc-ec2e-4df1-ace0-fe86e7b26ab9>	en	0.934314	0.054605
Adventures in Thief-Sitting By Lucky_Ladybug Notes: The characters are not mine and the story is! It was partially inspired by the 31 Days prompt To leave behind all the suffering you've brought to me is so sweet. This is the next installment in the series that begins with The Pendulum Swings, so if you haven't read that, you'll probably be confused. Basically it's a series I created so Yami Bakura can survive after Zorc's destruction. I always wrote Yami Bakura as being the Thief King, so after learning about the Zorc mess, I decided that the Thief King part could survive because I wanted him to. His mortal age I determined due to how old he looks both during his rampage on Egypt and during the flashback to the Millennium Items' creation. Thanks to Ladyamberjo, Kaze, Lisa, and Crystal Rose for plot help! "What else does this thing do?" The old graverobber turned the golden ring around in his hands, studying its workmanship and the infinity symbol in its center. So far he had not managed to decipher any of its hidden powers. Of course, he had only been trying for a couple of hours, but it had been so much easier with its predecessor the Millennium Ring. He frowned, letting go of the artifact in disgust. It coldly clunked against his bare chest, but he barely noticed. Maybe everything it could do, save for granting him physical form, was prohibited to him until it decided he was "worthy." He really had no idea how it would determine such a thing. And he doubted it would ever find him "worthy" if that meant he had to be "good." The floor creaked, jerking him out of his thoughts. "Do you have to pace the floor?" he grumbled, looking to the white-haired boy who was his modern-day descendant. Ryou Bakura froze. "I'm sorry, Yami," he apologized. "I'm just worried." He sighed. "My father's supposed to be home any day now. And . . . well, frankly, I'm wondering what we're going to do with you." He crossed his arms. "It's not like when you could hide in the Millennium Ring or pretend to be me. I don't know how I'll ever explain to my father who you are and what you're doing here!" The Egyptian's lips curled in a darkly amused smirk. "You could always tell him the truth," he said. "That I came into your room last night, badly torn, and you tried to help me, and the guardian of the Millennium Items gave me this thing to sustain physical form." He indicated the Infinity Ring. Bakura sighed, shaking his head. "He'd think we were both quite mad," he said. "You could tell another truth," said the thief, "and say that I'm a relation from Egypt." He was still smirking. Bakura slapped his forehead. "Yami, this isn't funny," he said. "Very well. You want me to be serious?" The tomb raider leaned forward on the bed, pointing at Bakura. "Your father is barely around long enough to learn your friend's names. You could tell him just about anything and he would believe it." Bakura sighed, running a hand through his hair. "Well, you look too old for me to pass you off as a friend from school," he said. Then he peered curiously at the other. "How old are you, anyway, Yami?" Another smirk. "I'm afraid I can't round it off to the exact day," said the thief, "but I at least know I'm over three thousand." "That wasn't what I meant!" Bakura scolded, though a smile tugged on his lips. Yami Bakura leaned back against the pillow and the headboard. "Twenty . . . twenty-one . . . around there, somewhere," he said. "That sounds about right," Bakura said. "And oh dear, whatever kind of excuse I give my father, he'll wonder about the scar on your face too. People in average, everyday occupations don't end up with injuries like that. . . ." He had to admit, he had been morbidly curious about the criss-cross scar's origin ever since he had first seen it, but he did not dare ask. He still feared the former spirit of the Millennium Ring, as he had admitted to the character himself. And although he would try to have faith that there was good in him, especially since Shadi had entrusted him with the Infinity Ring, he could not help being wary. The spirit had done so many terrible things on his quest to possess the Millennium Items, of course always involving an unwilling Bakura in his plans. And Bakura's friends had invariably gotten mixed up in the plots too. "There's other problems too," said Yami Bakura. "Such as, What are you going to call me? It would be too confusing to call me by my actual name. I suppose you could continue addressing me as 'Yami', but it would only further confuse your father." "I suppose," Bakura agreed with a sigh. "Maybe we'll have to see if there's an Egyptian name that sounds similar to ours but is different." He stared at the graverobber. "There's another problem as well," he said. "What will you wear?!" Rubbing the back of his neck he added, "I'm afraid my clothes would be a little small for you now. . . ." Yami Bakura looked down at himself. That was likely true. In the form from his mortal life, he was physically older, taller, and had more muscle than Bakura. And wearing a red robe and a kilt probably would not make a good impression on Bakura's father. "What about your father's clothes?" he asked. Bakura blinked. "Well, they might fit," he said. "But he might notice something missing. And I'm sure he'd recognize his clothes if he saw them on you. . . ." "Hmm. Then I suppose stealing something is in order," Yami Bakura mused. "Yami!" Bakura exclaimed. "We can't do that!" "Old habits die hard," was the smirking reply. Bakura shook his head. "Whatever have I got myself into?" he said, sinking into a chair. "I could always leave," Yami Bakura grunted. Bakura started and looked to him. "I didn't mean it like that!" he said. The thought of the thief wandering Domino, probably stealing and who knew what else, was horrifying. He would much rather know what the other was up to. And anyway, he had said Yami Bakura could stay here. He did not want the character to leave. The British boy sighed, running a hand into his hair. "I'm sorry, Yami. . . . I'm just worried about how my father will handle this. I don't want him to decide you have to go." "It's your house as much as it is his," Yami Bakura said. "And you're here when he isn't. You have a right to have people over if you want." "I know . . . but if he's thinks you're too . . . well, strange. . . ." Bakura colored. Yami Bakura just smirked. "Everyone always thought that, even back in Egypt," he said. "I can't imagine why," Bakura said under his breath. Yami Bakura laughed. The sound of the door opening downstairs brought them both to attention. "You didn't by any chance leave the door unlocked, did you?" Yami Bakura said. Bakura shook his head, his eyes wide and alarmed. "It would have to be . . ." "Ryou?" His father's voice called up the stairs. "Are you home?" Bakura swallowed hard. "Yes, Father!" he called back, praying his voice did not betray his nervousness and worry. "I . . . I'll be right down." "He's already coming up," Yami Bakura said dryly. "What are we going to do?!" Bakura hissed. "Above all, act natural," Yami Bakura growled. "And I hope you know how. I can't take control of you to ensure it." Bakura flinched a bit at the memories that statement brought to him. He did have to wonder what on Earth he was doing. Of course he had felt pity for the thief, seeing him in such a horrific state the past night. And the darkest part of him had felt lonely without the other; the only thing he feared more than Yami Bakura was complete solitude. But his more rational side had to wonder if he had gone mad, agreeing to let the tomb raider stay here. Having faith in him, even after Shadi had given him the Infinity Ring, was difficult. Yami Bakura had said that Zorc had been taking over his spirit. That was horrible; something Bakura could scarcely comprehend. But Yami Bakura had frankly admitted that he had done terrible things before ever getting the Millennium Ring, so Bakura had to wonder just how much of what had happened in the modern day had been Zorc in control and how much had been the Thief King. In spite of his kind nature, he wondered if he had, or if he could, forgive. Yet at the same time, he felt guilty for thinking it. Wasn't Yami Bakura as much of a victim as he himself had been? Or moreso, considering the thousands of years his spirit had been poisoned by Zorc? Even if that was true, it did not help for him to bring up the past as flatly and as matter-of-fact as he had just done. The boy was forcefully dragged back to the present as his father arrived at the top of the stairs and peered into the open doorway. "Ryou . . . ?" Bakura started and looked up. "Hello, Father!" he said, genuinely smiling as he stood. He was happy to see the man again; he was just worried as to how things would play out. . . . Mr. Bakura stared past his son, barely noticing as the boy got up from the chair. His mouth was hanging open in shock. Bakura shifted nervously, his stomach twisting. "Is something wrong, Father?" he asked, hoping he sounded casual. He was not heard. "Who are you?!" Mr. Bakura was gawking at the Thief King, sprawled casually on the bed. Yami Bakura sat up, moving slowly and unconcerned. "Bakura," he grunted. Bakura slapped his forehead. "Um . . . he's a relation," he stammered. "Remember, I just got back from a trip to Egypt with Yugi and the others? Well, I kind of . . . found him there and . . ." Mr. Bakura stared at his son now. "I didn't know we had any relatives in Egypt," he said. "I'm a very distant relation," Yami Bakura smirked. Mr. Bakura shook his head. "I knew I should have been more diligent looking up our family history," he muttered to himself. Louder, he said, "Well, it was kind of my son to invite you for a visit. I'm James Bakura." He held out a hand. Yami Bakura got off the bed and walked over, shaking Mr. Bakura's hand. "Ryou has told me so much about you I feel that I know you," he said, keeping his voice smooth. "Well . . ." Mr. Bakura stared into the other's lavender eyes. "I hope I can come to know you just as well. Ryou doesn't make friends easily, so I admit I'm surprised." "I suppose it's just the fact of us being related that makes a difference," Yami Bakura smirked. Bakura gave a nervous nod. "Yes, that's right," he said, rubbing the back of his neck. "Related. . . ." Mr. Bakura looked from him to the strange man in the robe and kilt. "Well . . ." he said, feeling oddly uneasy, "it's been a long day. Why don't we send for take-out?" Yami Bakura's eyes lit up. "There should be plenty of meat," he said. "Is Chinese good?" Bakura asked, heading for the door. "Chinese would be great," Mr. Bakura said. "I'll just . . . go wash up before it comes. . . ." He made his way to the bathroom across the hall, leaving his son and the thief standing in the doorway of Bakura's room. "Make sure you order something with meat," Yami Bakura said to Bakura as they went downstairs to the telephone in the living room. "Yes, yes, I know," Bakura said impatiently as he got out the Yellow Pages. Yami Bakura stared at the ad for the restaurant as Bakura placed the call. "'Peanut chicken'?" he said with increduluity. "They put peanuts in the chicken?!" Bakura waved a hand to shush him. "Um, hello?" he said into the phone when someone answered. "Yes, I would like to order take-out for three. . . ." "Get chicken chow mein," Yami Bakura interrupted. "And . . . 'butter chicken'?" He blinked at the ad. "What on earth is that?" Bakura clapped his hand over the mouthpiece. "You'd like it, I think," he said. "But just a minute, Yami, I can't hear . . . yes?" He pulled his hand away from the mouthpiece again. "That's right, our address is . . ." Yami Bakura barely paid attention. "'Mongolian beef', 'garlic pork', 'fried rice with meat' . . . order all of it!" he demanded. Again Bakura gestured at him to be quiet. "We'll have chicken chow mein," he said, "and egg rolls. And . . ." He paused as Yami Bakura continued to recite items from the ad's menu. "Snow peas and water chestnuts," he said firmly. "What?!" Yami Bakura exclaimed. Bakura allowed an amused smile at his expression. "You need other food besides meat in your diet," he said. Then he went red. "Oh! I'm sorry, I was talking to my . . . my cousin," he stammered into the phone. Now Yami Bakura smirked. The food was soon delivered and everyone sat around the kitchen table to dine. But it was only as Yami Bakura greedily opened the container of chicken chow mein and put some on his plate that Bakura realized he had made a horrible error. He had forgotten to tell the character to try to eat like a human and not like a monster. Mr. Bakura's mouth dropped open as Yami Bakura tore into the food, canine teeth bared and eyes wild with thirst for meat. Suddenly Bakura wanted to sink into the floor. "Um . . . we're working on learning the proper table manners," he said meekly. "He's fended for himself since he was a boy and . . ." He shot a frustrated glare at his Yami, who only licked his lips and moved to scarf down more food. Mr. Bakura shook his head. "He acts like he hasn't eaten in days," he said. And that was actually not far from the truth, Bakura realized. The last time Yami Bakura had eaten anything was when he had been in control of Bakura. And Bakura could not even remember how long ago that last meal had been. Yami Bakura must be starved. "I imagine he is terribly hungry," Bakura said aloud. "He hasn't eaten for . . . for a while. . . ." "I'm right here," Yami Bakura said, barely swallowing before speaking. A bit of seasoning slid down his jaw. He chased it with his tongue. "I'm sorry," Mr. Bakura apologized. "But your table manners really do leave something to be desired." Yami Bakura smirked and promptly dived into the food again. Mr. Bakura sighed in exasperation. "How did Ryou find you?" he asked. Yami Bakura and Bakura exchanged a look. Then Yami Bakura shrugged. "Oh . . . we . . . bonded over that Ring you gave him," he said. "It was a fascinating antique." Mr. Bakura frowned. "Speaking of that Ring . . . it looks a lot like the one you're wearing," he said. He had been staring at the Infinity Ring both before and during dinner. What with the Egyptian wearing only an open robe, the jewelry was clearly visible against his chest. "I suppose," Yami Bakura said. Even if he knew this Ring's origin, he likely would not offer to enlighten Mr. Bakura about it. "Where did you get it?" Mr. Bakura asked, unable to help being curious. "It was given to me," Yami Bakura said, his voice vague. "How long ago?" Mr. Bakura persisted. "Recently," was the reply through a mouthful of food. With a resigned sigh Mr. Bakura returned to his meal. He was not likely to learn much, if anything. The rest of the meal proceeded in a relatively peaceful manner, save for Yami Bakura's continuing atrocious manners. And by bedtime, a new problem had presented itself. Last night, Bakura had just let the thief sleep in his bed since he had been recovering from the horror of Zorc's infused spirit tearing free from him. Tonight, Bakura was exhausted and drained and needed more sleep than he had gotten when he had stayed in the chair in his room. Plus, his father was in his room and there were no extra beds. Amane's room was never touched. "We could share the bed," Bakura said hesitantly to Yami Bakura as he changed in his closet. Yami Bakura grunted from the middle of the room. "I'll sleep on the couch," he said. "But when your father isn't here, I'll sleep in his bed." He headed for the door to the hall. "And there's not much point in you hiding behind a door to get undressed. I've seen you getting ready for bed plenty of times." Bakura peered around the edge of the closet door. "Yami!" he exclaimed. But Yami Bakura was already heading into the hall. Bakura slumped back, running a hand through his hair. ". . . The couch sinks down quite a bit," he called. He received a grunt as his answer. With a sigh he finished buttoning his pajama top and stepped out, shuffling to the bed. It was a relief to sink into the soft mattress. He pulled the quilt around his shoulders as he dozed. Downstairs, Yami Bakura slipped the robe off his shoulders, intending to use it as his quilt. He laid down on the couch, throwing the robe over his well-built form. But then he growled in frustration. Bakura was right---he was sinking and sinking. He was lost in a sea of couch cushions. And not only that, it was lumpy. Every place where a cushion ended and a new one began was uncomfortably obvious to his side and legs. But he was not going to share a bed. He closed his eyes, pulling the couch pillow closer as he tried to relax and will sleep to come. It was no use. The sinking and the lumps were keeping him awake. At last he sat up, brushing the hair away from his face. According to the clock across from him, he had been fruitlessly trying to sleep for almost an hour. Gathering his robe and muttering angrily to himself, he stalked back upstairs. He paused at the closed door leading to Bakura's sister's room. There was not much point considering her bed, even if he was willing to violate the unspoken rule that no one stay in there. The bed was child-sized. He would never fit. And trying to sleep on a bed where his feet, or maybe nearly all of his legs, dangled over the edge would certainly keep him awake. He slipped into Bakura's room and sat in the chair Bakura had occupied last night. Maybe if he was tired enough, he could sleep that way. Of course, his neck and back would complain in the morning. But he closed his eyes and tried to doze anyway. This was also no use. His position was far too uncomfortable and he was far too awake. He received the same result when he tried the floor a moment later. But not only that, it was hard and cold. He could feel the draft from the window. By now he was completely exasperated and angry. And an angry Thief King is a very bad thing indeed. He got up, tossing his robe into the chair. Then he looked to the bed, where Bakura was laying too close to the middle. "Move over," he commanded. Bakura made an unintelligible sound in his sleep and did not move. Yami Bakura threw back the comforter. "Move. Now." But Bakura was too deeply asleep. Growling to himself, Yami Bakura climbed into the bed and threw the quilt over himself. But it did not take long before he was gritting his teeth in sheer aggravation. There was not enough room! "Bakura," he hissed, "move to the other side of the bed. It will be better for both of us." His knee was currently against Bakura's back, which would undoubtedly be uncomfortable if Bakura was awake to feel it. Yami Bakura straightened his legs, feeling stiff as a board. Miraculously, Bakura moved over---but he took the quilt with him. Yami Bakura grabbed hold of it, pulling half of it back to him. Then he laid against the second pillow, closing his eyes. He was jerked back to awareness as the quilt vanished. His eyes burning, he took hold of the comforter and gave a harsh tug. Bakura was holding on much too tight. As Yami Bakura pulled, both the quilt and Bakura came flying over to him. The thief cried out in shock and disbelief. This was followed by a steady stream of cursing in Egyptian. "Roll over!" he snapped, pushing on Bakura's shoulder. To his horror, Bakura just snuggled against him in his sleep. "But I feel so safe here," he mumbled. Yami Bakura's face twisted in frustration. "When I tell you of this later, you will be so mortified I doubt you will speak to me for a week." With that he pushed Bakura to the other side of the bed and then burrowed into the pillow. As he began to doze, he felt a weight roll against him again. He muttered in disgust and resignation, at last falling asleep in spite of it. "Thief King." He stiffened, looking about wildly in the black void for the source of the dreaded voice. "Zorc . . ." he gasped. "You should be gone. . . ." "I will never be gone." The darkness came alive, swirling around him. "You will never be free!" He screamed as the shadows devoured his body. His eyes flew open as he trembled, pushing himself up from the cold floor where he had landed. Around his neck, the Infinity Ring was brightly glowing, lighting up the room as at mid-day. He looked down at it, stunned. "What on Earth . . ." Bakura, startled awake, leaned over the side of the bed. "Yami, are you alright?!" he gasped. Before he could reply, the door flew open. "What's going on in here?!" Mr. Bakura cried. Then he stared at the thief. "Who are you?!" Bakura's mouth fell open. "Father?!" he said in disbelief. At the same moment, Yami Bakura burst out, "What are you talking about, you foolish mortal?!" He pulled himself to his feet, his hair swinging down his back. Wait. . . . He reached behind himself, grabbing at the white locks. They were as long as Bakura's. . . . A hand flew to his face. There was no evidence of the stretched skin from his scar. And the flesh of his arm and hand . . . it was white. He cursed in disbelief. "Ryou, how many people do you have in this house?!" Mr. Bakura exclaimed. Bakura shook his head, overwhelmed. "Only one, Father. . . ." Yami Bakura ran over, shoving Mr. Bakura into the hall. "Give us a minute," he growled, slamming the door on the shocked man. Then he whirled, facing Bakura. "Look at me!" he said. "What do you see?" Bakura stared. "Yami, you . . . you look like you did when I had the Millennium Ring," he said. "Exactly!" Yami Bakura declared. "How?!" He ran to the mirror, clutching the Infinity Ring. It was glowing. . . . Could it have done this? And could it have anything to do with the nightmare he had been having? He ignored Mr. Bakura pounding on the door as he concentrated, pooling his energy into the Ring and staring at his reflection. Bakura gawked in amazement and confusion. And then, just as Mr. Bakura threw open the door, the Ring responded to Yami Bakura's will. His hair shortened to his shoulders, his brown eyes turning lavender. His skin darkened, the scar appearing on the right side of his face. Poor Mr. Bakura gasped, his hand shaking violently on the knob. Bakura leaped up, running over to him. He laid a hand on the stunned man's shoulder. "We'll have to explain the truth now, Yami," he said, his voice firm. He also wanted an explanation for this bizarre transformation, but gathering from the tomb robber's bewilderment, he would like that answer as well. "I need to sit down," Mr. Bakura groaned. "Bah!" Yami Bakura growled. "You only have knowledge of the tip of the iceberg." Mr. Bakura swayed anyway. "Tell me what's going on, Ryou!" he implored. Bakura put an arm around his father's shoulders, guiding him to the bed. "Well . . . we really did meet because of the Ring you gave me, Father," he said. "Um . . . he was in it. . . ." Mr. Bakura's eyes widened. "In . . ." Yami Bakura walked over to the bed. "My name truly is Bakura," he said. "And I am a very distant relation of yours. I lived my mortal life three thousand years ago." Now Mr. Bakura looked faint. "This isn't possible," he said. "You're . . . you're solid. You were eating!" "Because of this." Yami Bakura held out the Infinity Ring. "It grants me physical form." He frowned at it. "Apparently it also allows me to change my appearance." Mr. Bakura gawked. "Where did that come from?!" Yami Bakura waved it at him. "Just a little something given to me by the guardian of the Millennium Items," he said. "My services will be needed in a future battle between good and evil. That is why I was given a second chance." Mr. Bakura gave a slow nod. ". . . Alright," he said, trying to get himself under control. "So you and Ryou are friends?" That stunned the two. They stared at each other. "Friends?!" they said in unison. At last Bakura managed a weak smile. "I never thought of it that way," he said. Yami Bakura grunted. He had not, either. And he doubted either of them ever would. Mr. Bakura eased himself off the bed, struggling to adapt himself to these strange concepts. "So an ancient spirit came out of the Millennium Ring, he has another Ring, he can take physical form, and he's living in our house. Okay. . . . No problem. . . ." He dazedly turned back when he reached the door. ". . . What did you do in your . . . uh . . . mortal life?" Yami Bakura smirked. "I was the King of Thieves." Bakura slapped his forehead. "Oh no. . . ." Two hours later Bakura sighed, running a hand into his hair. He was laying on his back on the bed, staring at the ceiling. He was drained. "I'm afraid we frightened my father terribly," he said. "I don't think he's too keen on the King of Thieves living here." Yami Bakura, sitting on the edge of the bed, grunted. "He'll have to deal with it." "Why did you have to tell him you were a thief?" Bakura demanded. "Would you have wanted me to lie?" Yami Bakura smirked. Bakura groaned. ". . . Why do you think you can change your appearance?" he wondered. "How should I know?!" Yami Bakura glared down at the Infinity Ring. "A most preposterous power, if you ask me. And most inconvenient, if it happens whenever it chooses." "Maybe it wasn't random," Bakura said. "What caused you to fall out of the bed, Yami?" Yami Bakura did not answer for a time. "Nothing," he grumbled then, even as the memories of the nightmare swirled through his mind. It was his darkest fear---that Zorc would return and claim his soul again. He was still not sure who he was, and perhaps that was manifested very literally by this ability to change between his mortal form and the form he had used when Bakura had possessed the Millennium Ring. One thing he did know---there was nothing whispering in his mind, nothing manipulating his spirit. It was almost alien to him after three thousand years of captivity. Part of him wondered if it was a delusion and Zorc was really here, whispering to him as he had done throughout the ages. He was terrified that he would discover his release was a lie. Which would be worse, he wondered---to really be free and then be chained again, or to have never been free despite thinking it was so? Bakura sat up. "You screamed," he said in concern. "I said it was nothing!" Yami Bakura snapped. Bakura swallowed hard and laid back down. Yami Bakura sighed, digging his fingers into his wild hair. ". . . When I laid down, you wouldn't share the quilt," he said. Bakura turned red. "I'm so sorry!" he gasped. "When I tried to take half, you were holding on so tight that you rolled over with it." Yami Bakura glanced over his shoulder. "You also refused to move, saying you felt safe." Now Bakura was absolutely scarlet. "I don't remember any of that!" he said. "Oh my . . . oh dear. . . ." Yami Bakura laid down, pulling half of the comforter over himself. Swallowing nervously, Bakura burrowed under the other half. ". . . I won't hurt you, you know," Yami Bakura said after an indeterminable amount of time. There was a lot Bakura wanted to say to that---that he had been hurt in the past, that he did not know whether to trust this character, that he really did not know if he wanted to share the bed. . . . But the confusion still raged in his soul. How much had it been Zorc hurting him and his friends and how much had it been the Thief King? And if the Thief King was a victim too, what was he really like beyond the horrible things he had done in ancient Egypt? He surely did have to possess some good, as Bakura had speculated earlier that day. He looked over his shoulder. Yami Bakura was not facing him, but Bakura could imagine his gruff countenance. Still . . . for some reason, after all that had taken place on this topsy-turvy day, now Bakura did not feel afraid. A smile made its way over his features. "You know, it's strange," he said. "I believe you, Yami. I have to admit, I've been worrying and wondering about it. I don't want to be yours, or Zorc's, or anyone's, pawn ever again. But . . . for the first time, I really have the confidence that those days are over. Oddly, I do think I feel safe. But . . ." He gave a nervous chuckle. "I'll stay on this side of the bed." "Good," Yami Bakura growled. He pulled the pillow down, soon drifting into a welcome, dreamless slumber.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5529643/1/Adventures-in-Thief-Sitting	<urn:uuid:47dcf1a1-1fcc-4247-97c3-b91f85d01947>	en	0.992464	0.028996
Hello All! To let you all know, To Really Know Someone is still being worked on, and an update is coming soon, but…this was a story that just wouldn't leave me alone, so I had to start on it. I've already got several chapters of it written, and I will post them within a reasonable time frame. I'm honestly not sure where the idea for this one came from, but as far as I know, it's an original idea in the world of Naruto fandom, so please enjoy: this is Naruto/Tsubaki (one of the two mothers that was glad Naruto didn't graduate at the beginning of the manga/anime). Disclaimer: I do not own Naruto! Chapter 1: The First Few Glances – What's Really There? (Part 1) Naruto Uzumaki was sitting by himself on his usual swing in the Academy playground, staring down sadly. Heartbroken and frustrated at yet his third failed attempt to complete the Genin Graduation Exam, the blonde whisker-faced youth didn't have the energy or the enthusiasm to do anything else. 'Why? Why does that one jutsu trip me up every time?' he asked himself in his frustration. As he sat there sadly, he couldn't help but overhear the conversations that the other kids in his class were having with their parents and families. "Ha ha…passed it with flying colors." "They called me first." "I'm a genin!" "I wish your grandma were here to see this. I'm proud of you son, we all are." "Congratulations! I'm going to cook all your favorites tonight. We'll have a feast!" This only served to remind Naruto of just how lonely he was. There was no family there to comfort him or let him know that everything would be OK. What made him even sadder was that even if he had passed, there would be nobody there to congratulate him, either. It was with these thoughts in mind that a particular conversation found its way into Naruto's ears. "There, do you see him?" asked a feminine voice that was laced with a spiteful edge. "It's that boy. I hear he's the only one who failed," another female voice responded, this one with not as sharp an edge, but rather laced with what seemed to be nervous fascination. Naruto now knew that they were talking about him. He raised his glance to see who they were. "Hmph! Well, it serves him right," the spiteful woman responded back. Naruto noticed that this woman had the darker hair of the two, and had what appeared to be some kind of shawl wrapped around her forehead. She, like her companion, was dressed in the garb of a typical housewife: simple utilitarian dress with a shirt on underneath it. The scowl on her face gave one the impression that it was the usual expression she wore. The other woman responded, "Just imagine if he became a ninja…I mean, he's the boy who-" "Shhh!" the spiteful woman interrupted quickly, "We're not allowed to talk about that!" 'What are they talking about? What did I do? Why do people keep staring and glaring at me like that?' he thought to himself at what he overheard, his frustration now giving way to hurt and anger at the unfairness of it all. He picked his gaze up and looked directly at the two women who were quietly deriding him, making direct eye-contact with one of them. He noticed that this woman was the prettier of the two. It was clear that she was a civilian, but given her slender build, one couldn't help but wonder if she might have at one time been a kunoichi. Her hair was brown also, but of a lighter shade than her companion's, and her head was unadorned. She wore a scowl that was similar to the spiteful woman's scowl, but wasn't quite so pronounced. Unlike the other woman, the nervous woman's scowl looked like it didn't belong there. As he continued looking right at her, he noticed a change in her posture and expression when they made eye-contact… Tsubaki Kenpi kept her piece at her friend Ibara's sharp reminder about the law regarding that boy. She knew what he was. She knew what he carried inside him, and she, like so many others, was content to act as though he didn't exist. Every time she saw that boy in the village, she was reminded of that horrible night: the night that she, like so many others, had lost so many loved ones to the Nine-Tailed Fox's horrific attack. She had married young, as many kunoichi were wont to do. At the tender age of thirteen, her husband, who had been five years older than her, was a newly-promoted Jounin on the night the Nine-Tailed Fox had attacked. The attack left her husband dead, and her alone to raise her two-month-old daughter Kasumi by herself. She had just made chunin at that time after four years in the Shinobi program; she had been a member of the last class to graduate early due to war. She'd had to retire so that she could raise her child, and her life had not been easy. Fortunately for her, when Sarutobi retook the mantle of Hokage, he had set up a fund for those who had been orphaned or widowed and made into single parents as a result of the catastrophe that struck the village. Tsubaki knew Ibara had it just as bad, but Ibara had become much more embittered about how her life had turned out since that night. Ibara had never been particularly compassionate anyway, having been a bit of a bully during her Academy years – a path that her daughter, Ami, seemed to follow her in. As much as it saddened Tsubaki, she knew that Ibara would likely never change…and probably didn't want to. She, on the other hand, had always wanted to be a medical field ninja, as she preferred helping people to hurting them. She remembered reading about the legendary Lady Tsunade's illustrious career as a genius medic and ninja during her time in the Academy, but what had intrigued her the most was Tsunade's proposal during the Second Great Shinobi War to institute a medical ninja in every squad. Tsubaki, herself, thought that this was an ingenious idea, and she never really understood why the idea was never adopted. If it had been, who knows how many lives could have been saved on the night of the Nine-Tails' attack. It was shortly after this last thought that she noticed Naruto looking right at her. Her first impulse was to glare at him, but after a moment of looking directly into his eyes, she saw something she'd never seen before. Those blue eyes were so full of…sadness…pain…loneliness, to the point of almost complete isolation. Then she saw even more: frustration and anger that stemmed from the sadness, pain and loneliness that he felt. She'd seen those things in her own eyes so many times when she looked into a mirror. It was terrible to feel those things; it was even worse to recognize them when you looked into your own eyes…it made you wonder what others saw when they really looked at you. She always felt exposed when she saw those things in herself…but this was different. She never saw those feelings to such an immense degree in her own eyes. Her face morphed into a confused, saddened frown, before settling into an ashamed one. She averted her eyes from the boy, unable to continue meeting his gaze anymore before she decided to look around for her own daughter. When Kasumi had come up to her, she gave her a phony smile and congratulated her, Kasumi being none the wiser as to what was really going on in her mother's heart and mind. Ibara had done the same with Ami when she had approached, although her smile and praise seemed more genuine than Tsubaki's had been. They all walked away to celebrate their daughters' accomplishment, but Tsubaki sent one last look Naruto's way, making eye-contact briefly once more, seeing something different this time: confusion and recognition? She quickly put it aside as she saw Mizuki-sensei making his way to Naruto, intent on talking to him about something… Naruto became confused as the woman's face seemed to change. It started with a glare, but then turned into a frown…she became confused…then sad…then she seemed to avert her gaze. 'Is she ashamed? And of what? She can't be ashamed of what she just said about me, can she? Nobody's ever been ashamed of that…' he thought to himself in genuine confusion, trying to solve the puzzle just presented before him. 'She's probably just ashamed of acknowledging my existence. The rest of the village would rather I wasn't around, so that's got to be it…' he thought bitterly, believing he had solved his mystery. Some prompting within him, however, told him to continue watching this woman…he didn't know what it was, and looking back, he could only chalk it up to her abnormal reaction to making eye-contact with him – when most made eye-contact with him, they usually glared icily, or angrily, but never guiltily. What made this woman so different? Naruto watched with confused interest as one of his classmates, Kasumi, made her way to the woman, telling her "mom" how she graduated and how well she did on the Genin exam. She was with her friend Ami, who made her way to the spiteful woman and had the same conversation with her. 'So that's where Ami gets it, huh?' Naruto thought rhetorically. Returning his attention to Kasumi and her mother, Naruto just continued watching. Mom's smile and praise of her daughter seemed forced…as though her guilt was really bothering her. Naruto couldn't wrap his head around it – why would that be? As they left the grounds, Mom glanced back Naruto's way once more. Naruto's interest gave way to recognition. He could see it in her eyes – she knew how he felt, and it was that realization that made her feel ashamed. He was still a bit confused: after all, how many others looked him in the eye and didn't care? How many others reacted the same way Ami's mother did, believing that it served him right to fail and be alone? His attention was diverted by his silver-haired chunin instructor's voice calling his name… It was a fact that word spread quickly throughout the Hidden Leaf Village about…well, anything of interest to anybody. It became widely-known throughout adult circles that Naruto had been tricked by Mizuki that night into stealing the Forbidden Scroll of Sealing. If some rumors were to be believed, he had learned an A-Rank Forbidden Kinjutsu from the scroll before being caught…and eventually used it to save Iruka-sensei's life. As a result, he had been allowed to graduate…and for some reason, this had made Tsubaki smile. It made her smile even further when she heard that he was on the first Genin squad that Kakashi Hatake, of all people, had passed and taken on. It was as though Kami herself was giving the boy a break, as well as some vindication, from the labels and the treatment that people had given him…people like herself. Shame and guilt would come anew when she remembered how she used to treat him. She just couldn't get those haunted, lonely eyes out her mind. As it was right now, she was going to and fro within the village, running errands here and there. Kasumi hadn't passed her Jounin sensei's test, and was now currently repeating her final year at the Academy with her best friend Ami. Since Sasuke Uchiha had graduated, Kasumi no longer seemed as focused as she was before…as though her reason for being there was now gone. Tsubaki feared for her daughter, and for Ami. She knew all too well that fangirls usually didn't last long as kunoichi; time and time again, she had seen or heard tale of fangirls being captured, abused, raped and killed…all the while, expecting and praying that their "knight in shining armor" would come and rescue them. She certainly didn't want Kasumi or Ami to end up like that. She only hoped that she and Ibara could talk their daughters out of this phase they were going through before it was too late. Right now, the chances of that happening looked pretty bleak, mostly because Ibara and Ami weren't really on good talking terms since she failed her Genin test. Kasumi usually went in whatever direction Ami went. Ami just had that kind of presence – if she could focus her efforts and attentions constructively towards becoming a true kunoichi, she would likely do very well, becoming Chunin quickly. Ami could lead people, of that there was little doubt; it was just that she usually led them in bullying others. There he was again…that boy, Naruto. She just watched as he and his two teammates suffered through a D-Rank mission: walking the Inuzuka Dogs. It would seem that whenever Naruto got involved in something, he jumped in with both feet. He was walking four dogs at once…all of which were as big as him or bigger. Now that she thought about it, any time she had seen him around in the month since he graduated, he always seemed to work that hard. He would use shadow clones to help with clean-up work, he would pull a greater load in each mission than the other two, he would also work with more enthusiasm and energy. It was as though he had something to prove… She gasped at that, 'Is this what we've driven him to? Does he work so hard to prove himself, just so we'll acknowledge his existence?' It was with that question in mind that she began looking around, seeing if anyone was paying him any mind or attention. She saw that they were paying him more attention than they were his teammates, but it was the kind of attention that they were paying him that struck her. People were looking at him with cold, icy glares, the occasional exception being a hate-filled, scornful glare from someone who felt more strongly towards him than most. 'This just feels so wrong…he's just a kid. He doesn't deserve this – he's never done anything to hurt any of these people…' this thought led to another guilt-filled realization, '…and not too long ago, I was no different. How would I feel in his shoes, with everyone in the village glaring at me like that day in and day out? How can he stand it?' She took a few moments to observe him a little more closely. She saw his posture and the look in his eyes, even through the goofy grin followed by the occasional teeth-gritting grunt as he was walking several very strong dogs. She could see that Naruto was aware of every glare and every ill intention being sent his way. And yet…he wasn't reacting. Curious as to why this was, she continued to observe and watch him. At that moment, Naruto's gaze caught her own once more. That same flicker of recognition was there in his eyes. He remembered her. She almost averted her gaze as she felt her guilt and shame rising to the surface once more, but she squelched it, and offered him a weak smile and a small nod instead. Naruto frowned in what seemed to be confusion at this before being taken off his feet by his current mission and dragged through the streets, both his teammates yelling at him all the while… 'I wonder why she smiled at me this time…' Naruto mused to himself after the dogs he was walking had finally stopped dragging him. Sakura had already bonked him on the head for being his typical knuckleheaded self and making their mission take longer, while Sasuke just smirked and gave him the typical barbs: loser, dead-last, idiot. Thinking about her smile, which he found to be quite becoming, now that he thought about it, brought a genuine smile to his face. It wasn't often that he received smiles from the villagers, and he found the experience to be quite…pleasant, to say the least. Upon hearing his teammates calling his name, he pasted his phony grin back on his face before turning his attention to them and running in their direction so that they could get paid… Tsubaki had heard the most astonishing rumor, and was dying to verify the truth of it. That Naruto boy was involved in the defeat of an A-Rank rogue ninja, and one of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen to boot? Apparently, he played a pretty major role in it, too! As she talked with people and listened in on others, there was one thing that she noticed, and she was noticing it more and more these days: whenever there was a rumor of Naruto doing something good or performing some great deed, the almost-habitual response was disbelief. It was annoying her to no end; these people couldn't claim to know Naruto any better than she did! But here they were, jumping to the conclusion that Naruto couldn't have had anything to do with performing a service for the village – it was always about how he was a loser, or no good, or whatever the current nonsense happened to be. When Tsubaki had gotten home from running her day-to-day errands, she sat down in her living room and thought to herself, 'Is that how I used to be? Was I that bad? Did I talk about him the same way? I don't remember saying too much about him, and I used to avoid talking about him or thinking about him, but…when I did, was I saying the kinds of things that these people are saying, now?' As she pondered this, she found she didn't like the idea of having been that judgmental. Any time she saw him out and about now, she would offer a smile to him…and that simple gesture seemed to make his day. While grateful that she could be of such help to him, the wrongness of the whole situation bothered her – if a warm, friendly smile did that much for him…she was reminded of the hard truth that he didn't get that many friendly smiles, and from what she could see, he was a very friendly young man. She would see him spending time with the Honorable Grandson and his two friends, and even giving them some training in the form of "playing ninja". She had a few chances to listen to some of the advice that Naruto offered them from time to time, and was rather astounded at how wise his advice was. The villagers were wrong about him! She had been wrong about him, and it was time that she did her part to try to put things right, or to at least clear up the labels and misconceptions that he had been unfairly given. She would make it a point from here on to either avoid such conversation, or in situations where it was unavoidable, to attempt to correct such errant viewpoints where she could… 'This kid's amazing! Time and time again, he seems to pull major upsets and accomplish the impossible!' Tsubaki thought to herself as she just heard the latest: Naruto, the major underdog in the Chunin Exam preliminaries, had defeated his opponent Kiba Inuzuka. It would seem that Naruto always would be the Number One Unpredictable Ninja in the Hidden Leaf Village, whether for good or ill, whether because of his ability to pull off the most insane pranks imaginable or to make seemingly-impossible situations reality! It was with this in mind that her eye caught the boy once more, eating lunch at Ichiraku's ramen stand, and he was with someone. 'Wait a minute…isn't that Master Jiraiya, the Toad Sage? I wonder what Naruto's doing with him…' she mused, intrigued by what she saw. Apparently, the two of them were just finishing lunch as she saw them paying their bill. "Alright, kid. Back to it!" she heard Jiraiya exclaim with gusto. Naruto groaned in response, muttering something about lazy perverts being no help in training at all. It then occurred to Tsubaki – Jiraiya was training Naruto. This brought an astonished, yet grateful smile to her lips. It was great for Naruto that someone finally seemed to be taking a positive proactive interest in him, and it was even better that the interested party was none other than Master Jiraiya, arguably the strongest Hidden Leaf ninja alive! As she walked off, she once again made eye contact with Naruto…and once again, there was that flicker of recognition in his eyes, but this time a small smile followed. She smiled back, and this time offered him a shy wave with the fingers of her right hand. Naruto's smile widened as he waved back before leaving to catch up with Jiraiya… Tsubaki and Ibara were sitting together at the Chunin Exam Finals. Things had become a bit tense between the two of them in the past few months, over a couple of sensitive topics: their daughters' lack of proper preparation for the shinobi world, and Naruto Uzumaki. It was Naruto that was the focus of their thoughts right now, as they were both watching him fight Neji Hyuuga…and he was once again the underdog. "I still don't get why they let that…punk…graduate and be a Genin!" Ibara said in her usual spiteful tone, this time with a darker, almost hateful edge. "You know, I really don't get you anymore, Ibara!" Tsubaki exclaimed, her frustration finally reaching its limit, "What do you have against him? He's never done anything to you! He's never done anything hurtful or bad to anyone in this village! The most he's done that might be considered trouble is pull off harmless pranks, and since he's been a ninja, he's done nothing but serve this village! He works harder at his missions than any other Genin I've ever seen! So…answer me: what do you have against him?" Ibara looked at her friend in shock. Where had this come from? She always agreed with her before about that good-for-nothing punk! "What do you mean, 'what do I have against him?'? You were there that night. You lost your husband, too!" Ibara responded in indignation, fortunately being drowned out by the noise of the crowd. "And just how is that Naruto's fault, huh? Did he ask to be born that night? Did he ask to have his…resident…sealed inside of him? Has Naruto ever shown that he's anything like his resident at any time?" Tsubaki asked indignantly, taking care to use certain catchwords to make her point while not breaking the law, "Does Naruto behave like that in any way? Have you ever taken just a few moments to watch him? Or is it just easier for you to blame him for what your life is like right now instead of taking responsibility and moving on?" Ibara looked stricken at that. Not having an answer, Ibara grew sullen and angry, bringing her attention back to the match. Tsubaki did the same, only to watch as Neji got into stance for his next attack – the Gentle Fist Art: Eight Trigrams, Sixty-Four Palms. "Hmph! Let's see that punk get himself out of this one…" Ibara said, in her usual spiteful tone as Neji opened up on Naruto, striking him with precision and closing off his tenketsu points, cutting him off from his chakra. Tsubaki gritted her teeth angrily at her friend's unwarranted spite. As Naruto went down, Ibara seemed to smirk in satisfaction, only to grit her teeth as he got up again! Tsubaki, on the other hand, began to worry for the boy. She breathed a sigh of relief when Naruto got to his feet and showed that he intended to continue fighting. Both she and her companion began to get nervous, however, when Naruto seemed to start drawing on the Nine-Tails' chakra. 'What's going to happen now?' Tsubaki thought worriedly. Ibara simply sat there, glaring at Naruto in fearful anger. They both continued watching as Naruto maintained control of himself, continuing his fight with Neji, which ultimately ended with both of them knocking each other across the stadium with enough force to make craters in the stadium grounds. As Neji got out of his crater and stumbled over to Naruto, Ibara chuckled darkly, while Tsubaki worried for Naruto while at the same time hoping that Naruto would get back up. After hearing Neji's diatribe about the reality of a failure, and then watching Naruto explode from the ground and connect with a strong uppercut, knocking Neji into the air and backwards about thirty feet, she grinned ecstatically. Somehow, she knew that Naruto would pull off a victory, and she was happy beyond words to be proven right. It was what happened next, however, that would burn itself into her memory forever…and begin to awaken feelings she never thought she would have toward the boy. Naruto responded to Neji's embittered acknowledgment of his defeat, "For the record, I failed the graduation exam three times…cuz there was this one jutsu…that was always on the exam…and it tripped me up every time. It was the one jutsu…that I just couldn't master." Tsubaki was listening intently, hanging on every word that came out of his mouth. She didn't know why, but for some reason, she had to know what he would say. Naruto continued, "My clones were pathetic…that's right, I flunked the Shadow Clone Jutsu every time. So don't come whining to me with this destiny stuff…and stop trying to tell me you can't change what you are. You can do it, too, cuz after all, unlike me, you're not a failure." The proctor called the match, declaring Naruto the winner. The crowd erupted in applause, giving Naruto the standing ovation he greatly deserved. Tsubaki, one of the very first to stand, began to cry, overwhelmed with admiration towards Naruto, and still feeling a bit ashamed of herself at how she once agreed with Ibara about him. She clapped fervently, grinning widely, and lost in her own thoughts, 'Naruto…how could I have been so blind? How could I have looked down my nose at someone who has such incredible strength of character? Who are you, Naruto Uzumaki? I don't know…but I mean to find out.' With this, she resolved to seek him out after the Chunin Exams were over. She still didn't know why, nor did she even know what she would say to him once she found him, but for some reason, she felt compelled to seek him out. She found herself evaluating the fight between Naruto and Neji, and what struck her the most were the differences between their characters, perspectives and viewpoints. Neji had been callous, cruel and arrogant, looking down his nose at Naruto, never bothering to even call him by his name, instead using names such as "loser", "failure", "worthless", and "impudent little brat". What made it worse was that Neji's arrogance had drawn the rest of the audience in, as well. Naruto had been completely written off as the loser of the fight by this crowd, simply because Neji's overconfidence had drawn the crowd to this conclusion. Naruto, on the other hand, didn't back down, but never did he respond even in kind to Neji. Even now, when Naruto had more than earned the right to gloat over his clearly defeated opponent, he wasn't doing so! There was no disrespect or condescension in his voice at all; he was a gracious winner, and even went so far as to try to spur Neji on to change and better himself. Tsubaki looked over at Ibara once more, and her smile dropped at what she saw. Ibara hadn't gotten up with everyone else. She hadn't even applauded Naruto's hard-earned victory, but rather just sat there with her arms folded on front of her and the same ever-present scowl on her face. This time, though, she could see a trace of shame in Ibara's eyes as well. Ibara was looking downward slightly, as though she knew she was wrong to have such hateful anger towards Naruto, but was still unwilling to let it go. 'Maybe it's time that I reevaluate my friendship with Ibara,' Tsubaki thought to herself, disappointed that Ibara could hate someone…a child, no less…that much, especially knowing that she had no right to hate him at all. Again, this was accompanied by her own feelings of guilt, not having realized it sooner, or even paying attention to this aspect of her friend's nature that she now found quite unsettling. After sitting down, Ibara growled out sullenly, "Why do you like him so much?" Tsubaki turned to Ibara and responded plainly, "Because I actually dared to look him in the eye…and I saw a hurt, anguished, lonely and confused young boy. I saw the same things in his eyes that I often see in my own eyes every time I look in the mirror, except that they were magnified in his. I know how he feels because of the things that have been done to him, and I'm amazed at how well he stands up under them! Neither of us would have survived in his place, Ibara – Remember that!" Ibara glared at her friend for a moment longer before once more sullenly looking downward. Both of them sat there in silence throughout the rest of the matches until Sasuke Uchiha's chidori struck Gaara of the Desert through his sand shield, and a genjutsu was cast upon the stadium, causing both of them to fall asleep… Tsubaki and her daughter Kasumi were both dressed in black, the expected attire for mourning in public at a funeral. Both of them were shedding silent tears…so much damage, so many losses. So much had happened in the Leaf in the three days since the Chunin Exams. The village had been invaded by both the Hidden Sand and the Hidden Sound. The invasion had been repelled, with Naruto himself taking out the most dangerous opponent in a fully-transformed Gaara…by summoning none other than the Chief Toad Gamabunta himself! The cost, however, was high: so many Leaf shinobi were killed in the battle, foremost among the casualties being Third Hokage Hiruzen Sarutobi. The only event that Tsubaki could even compare it to was the aftermath of the Nine-Tails' Attack, there was that much destruction. The funeral service for all of those shinobi who had fallen during the invasion was in full swing, but Tsubaki was distracted by thoughts of a certain blond boy that she'd caught sight of as he arrived with his teammates and went to the roof of Hokage Tower, where shinobi in the village and the Third's family and friends were mourning in a reserved area. Her heart nearly broke when she saw the state he was in, and she couldn't get that image out of her mind. This was the first time she'd ever seen him injured, as he had gauze taped to his forehead and both of his cheeks, as well as a few other bandages on his body, but it was his expression that struck her more than anything else. He looked sadder and more heartbroken than she could ever remember seeing him…even when she made eye-contact with him at the Academy. It was a look that she just wanted to take away from him. It was with these thoughts preoccupying her that she suddenly noticed that the service was over. She saw Naruto with his teammates and sensei leaving the tower together. Tsubaki thought for a moment to approach Naruto as she had resolved to do during the Chunin Exam Finals, but decided not to as she saw him comforting and being comforted by some friends and comrades. 'It wouldn't be appropriate right now. Kasumi needs me more, and his friends need him more as well. I can approach him later,' she thought as she attended to her and her daughter's grief. After the ceremony had ended, Kasumi had returned home on her own, while Naruto and his team had already left in order to get back to duty. As Team Seven walked away, she saw that Iruka hadn't yet left. 'I have seen Naruto and Iruka together a lot. They're pretty close from what I can gather…maybe Iruka can tell me a little bit about him,' she mused before walking up to Iruka to indulge her curiosity about Naruto. "Excuse me…Iruka?" she asked in order to garner the Chunin instructor's attention. He turned his head in her direction, "Tsubaki? Tsubaki Kenpi?" he asked before smiling, "Wow, it's certainly been a while. How are you…all things considered?" Tsubaki smiled in response, "I'm doing OK. How are you?" "I'm alright, all in all." Tsubaki nodded, "That's good to hear. Ermm…listen, I was wondering…how well do you know Naruto Uzumaki?" Iruka frowned curiously, "Hmm…that's pretty random." "Well, maybe…but I…well, I was just hoping I could learn a little more about him beyond what most people here in the village have to say." Iruka's frown went from curious to saddened, "Yeah, it's true that generally people in the village aren't fair to him. But why not just ask him yourself?" "A couple of reasons: one is that either of us or both of us are too busy for me to be able to approach him and have a conversation of any length with him. But…the truth is that…even if I did have the chance to talk to him…" Tsubaki paused, a dejected frown adorning her own features as she finished, "…I wouldn't even know what to say." Iruka's curiosity made itself known once more, both across his face and in his voice, "Tsubaki, what prompted you to want to learn more about him? I'm guessing that there's more to this than the Chunin Exams and the invasion…" Tsubaki told him her story, beginning from when she and Ibara saw him on the swing by himself after he had failed the Academy for the third time, continuing through the other times she had encountered him and seen him, and ending with her decision to seek him out and try to talk to him. Iruka seemed grateful that at least one person had changed their opinion of Naruto without him having to do something to change it. There were those in the village who had never been unfair to Naruto, such as the Ichiraku Family, Hiruzen Sarutobi, Kakashi, and most recently, Jiraiya. Sadly, though, they were very few, and very far between. Even Iruka had been unfair to him at first, not wanting anything to do with him because, like so many, he was reminded of what happened with his parents on that horrible night some thirteen years ago. He couldn't help but think on how he and Naruto had bonded once he had first seen just how truly lonely and anguished the boy was that night in the cemetery…the words that Naruto had yelled at him sometimes still echoed in his mind… "I'm not a nuisance…and I'm not some kind of germ! I have a name! My name is Naruto Uzumaki!" Tsubaki was the first person he had talked to who had changed her opinion of Naruto simply because she saw a lonely human being, not because he did something spectacular, confrontational, or anything like that. "You know, it's funny…" Iruka began in response to her, "…as close as Naruto and I are now, it took Naruto getting in my face and yelling at me before I saw him as more than a simple reminder of the Nine-Tails. Did you know that I was assigned as a teacher originally by the Third because he wanted someone in Naruto's life that could help him?" Tsubaki frowned in curious surprise, shaking her head, "No, I didn't know that." Iruka smiled nostalgically, relaying the tale of how he and Naruto grew close: how at first, he ignored him and acted like he didn't matter, how Kakashi told him that the reason he needed to somehow reach Naruto was because he was the only one who could, the night at the graveyard where Naruto had told him that he was no longer going to attend classes, and how Naruto had gone out on a dare from one of his peers into a combat zone and had almost gotten killed. "The only reason he accepted that dare was because he was so lonely…and they told him they'd be his friends if he did it. It's amazing how you saw it and he didn't even need to say anything to you…" he finished as he turned his gaze back towards her, intent on telling Tsubaki what she wanted to know, "…he's lonely, still. I only wish I had more time to give to him, now. I love him like a little brother…" he smiled at the thought before continuing, "…Naruto's a truly unique and amazing person. He never gives up, either on himself, or on anyone else. Once he sets his mind to something, he'll stop at nothing to achieve it…and his goals are so…lofty and noble. Of course, you know that he's determined to one day be Hokage, right?" Tsubaki nodded. "Well, let me tell you…" Iruka continued, "…the more I see him, and the more I watch him grow…I can't help but think that one day he's going to do it." Tsubaki's eyebrows shot up in surprise upon hearing this. Iruka pressed on, "The truth is that so many people write him off at best, or outright hate him at worst, but he has this strange…power, for lack of a better word…but it seems to fit because he's the only person I've ever known who's like this: You can't get to truly know Naruto and not eventually come to like or love him; he can become friends with anyone, it doesn't matter who they are, or where they're from. He's also fiercely protective and loyal towards his friends and loved ones." Iruka turned his gaze in the direction that Naruto had walked off in as he finished, "Tsubaki…if you want to know what to say to him, just…say whatever comes to mind. If you can't think of anything to say, knowing Naruto the way I do and judging from what you've told me, he'll somehow find a way to start a conversation." Tsubaki pondered his words for a while before nodding, "Iruka, thank you…for your advice. I think I'll do that." Before long, both of them said their farewells to each other, Iruka leaving to prepare for class the following day, Tsubaki on her way home to begin preparing dinner for herself and her daughter. Thoughts of just what she might say to Naruto once she encountered him racing through her mind… And that's Chapter 1. As you've likely noticed, I'm trying to write chapters of a more reasonable length as well. Please review. Do you like it so far? Do you think the idea has potential? I'd love to know! So please, please, please review!	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8121027/1/The-Gateway-to-the-Soul	<urn:uuid:e44d8bbf-5536-43f4-987b-64d2848cdf1e>	en	0.993657	0.144397
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Immigrant) Jump to: navigation, search Immigration is the movement of people into another country or region to which they are not native in order to settle there.[1] Immigration is a result of a number of factors, including economic and/or political reasons, family re-unification, natural disasters or the wish to change one's surroundings voluntarily. As of 2006, the International Organization for Migration has estimated the number of foreign migrants worldwide to be more than 200 million.[3] Europe hosted the largest number of immigrants, with 70 million people in 2005.[3] North America, with over 45 million immigrants, is second, followed by Asia, which hosts nearly 25 million. Most of today's migrant workers come from Asia.[4] In 2005, the United Nations reported that there were nearly 191 million international migrants worldwide, about 3 percent of the world population.[5] This represented a rise of 26 million since 1990. 60 percent of these immigrants were now in developed countries, an increase on 1990. Those in less developed countries stagnated, mainly because of a fall in refugees.[6] Contrast that to the average rate of globalization (the proportion of cross-border trade in all trade), which exceeds 20 percent. The numbers of people living outside their country of birth is expected to rise in the future.[7] 2012 survey[edit] A 2012 survey by Gallup found roughly 640 million adults would want to migrate to another country if they had the chance to.[8] Nearly one-quarter (23%) of these respondents, which translates to more than 150 million adults worldwide, named the United States as their desired future residence, while an additional 7% of respondents, representing an estimated 45 million, chose the United Kingdom. The other top desired destination countries (those where an estimated 25 million or more adults would like to go) were Canada, France, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Germany and Spain. Understanding of immigration[edit] London has become multiracial as a result of immigration.[9] Across large parts of London, black and Asian children outnumber White British children by about six to four in state schools.[10] Region-specific factors for immigration[edit] North African immigrants near the Italian island of Sicily Some states, such as Japan, have opted for technological changes to increase profitability (for example, greater automation), and designed immigration laws specifically to prevent immigrants from coming to, and remaining within, the country. Globalization, as well as low birth rates and an aging work force, has forced Japan to reconsider its immigration policy.[27] Japan's colonial past has also created considerable number of non-Japanese in Japan. Japan keeps tight control on immigration and in 2009, despite generous overseas aid for refugees, granted political asylum to just 30 people.[28] Japanese Minister Taro Aso described Japan as unique in being "one nation, one civilisation, one language, one culture and one race".[29] Economic migrant[edit] The term economic migrant refers to someone who has emigrated from one region to another region for the purposes of seeking employment or improved financial position. An economic migrant is distinct from someone who is a refugee fleeing persecution. Many countries have immigration and visa restrictions that prohibit a person entering the country for the purposes of gaining work without a valid work visa. Persons who are declared an economic migrant can be refused entry into a country. The process of allowing immigrants into a particular country has been believed to have effects on wages and employment. Particularly the lower skilled workers are affected directly, but evidence suggests that this is due to adjustments within industries.[31] Immigration and Western social values[edit] Many commentators have raised the issue that immigrants from certain cultures who move into Western countries may not be able to understand and assimilate certain Western concepts, that are relatively alien in some parts of the world, especially related to women's rights, domestic violence, LGBT rights and the supremacy of secular laws in front of religious practices. For instance, in many parts of the world it is legal and socially accepted for men to use physical violence against their wives if they "misbehave"; and wives are expected, both legally and socially, to "obey" their husbands.[37][38] Various behaviors of women, such as refusing arranged marriages or having premarital sex, are seen in many parts of the world as justifying violence from family members (parents).[39] A 2010 survey conducted by the Pew Research Center found that stoning as a punishment for adultery was supported by 82% of respondents in Egypt and Pakistan, 70% in Jordan, 56% Nigeria, 42% in Indonesia; the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion was supported by 86% of respondents in Jordan, 84% in Egypt and 76% in Pakistan; gender segregation in the workplace was supported by 85% of respondents in Pakistan, 54% in Egypt, 50% in Jordan.[40] Some people argue that Western countries have worked very hard and for a very long time to achieve modern values, and they have the right to maintain these values, and protect them from threats. In 2007, Quebec premier Jean Charest said that Quebec had values such as equality of women and men and the separation between the state and religion and that "These values are fundamental. They cannot be the object of any accommodation. They cannot be subordinated to any other principle."[41] (see reasonable accommodation). In recent years, several high profile cases of honor killings, forced marriages and female genital mutilation among immigrant communities in Canada, the US and Europe have reignited the debate on immigration and integration.[42][43][44][45][46][47] LGBT rights are another issue of controversy in relation to immigration, because homosexuality is in many parts of the world illegal and widely disapproved by society, and in some places it is even punishable by death (see sodomy laws and LGBT rights by country or territory). Some countries, such as the Netherlands, have adopted policies which explain to immigrants that they have to accept LGBT rights if they want to move to the country.[48] By country[edit] Jewish immigration to Palestine during the 19th century was promoted by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century following the publication of "Der Judenstaat".[49] His Zionist movement sought to encourage Jewish migration, or immigration, to Palestine. Its proponents regard its aim as self-determination for the Jewish people.[50] The percentage of world Jewry living in the former Palestinian Mandate has steadily grown from 25,000 since the movement came into existence. Today about 40% of the world's Jews live in Israel, more than in any other country.[51] There were 35,638 African migrants living in Israel in 2011.[52] Nearly 69,000 non-Jewish African migrants have entered Israel in recent years.[53] In the early 1990s, Japan relaxed its relatively tight immigration laws to allow special entry permits for foreigners of Japanese ancestry in South America to make up for a labor shortage.[54] According to Japanese immigration centre,[55] the number of foreign residents in Japan has steadily increased, and the number of foreign residents (including permanent residents, but excluding illegal immigrants and short-term visitors such as foreign nationals staying less than 90 days in Japan[56]) was more than 2.2 million in 2008.[55] The biggest groups are Koreans (both south and north), Chinese (including China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau nationalities), and Brazilians. Most of the Brazilians in Japan have Japanese ancestry due to the huge Japanese immigration to Brazil in the first decades of the 20th century. Immediately after World War II, most Koreans in Japan were illegal immigrants who escaped from civil war on the Korean Peninsula.[57] Among the immigrants, Japan accepts a steady flow of 15,000 new Japanese citizens by naturalization (帰化 kika?) per year.[58] Indeed, the concept of ethnic groups by the Japanese statistics is different from that used in North American or some Western European statistics. For example, the United Kingdom Census asks about its citizens' "ethnic or racial background".[59] The Japanese Statistics Bureau does not ask this question. Since the Japanese census asks about nationality rather than ethnicity, naturalized Japanese citizens and Japanese nationals with multi-ethnic backgrounds are considered simply to be Japanese in the population of Japan.[55] According to the Japanese Association for Refugees, the number of refugees who applied to live in Japan has rapidly increased since 2006,[60] and there were more than a thousand applications in 2008.[60] Japan's refugee policy has been criticized because the number of refugees accepted into Japan is small compared to countries such as Sweden and the United States.[61] For example, according to the UNHCR, in 1999 Japan accepted 16 refugees for resettlement, while the United States took in 85,010, and New Zealand (which has a much smaller population than Japan) accepted 1,140. Between 1981, when Japan ratified the U.N. Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, and 2002, Japan recognized only 305 persons as refugees.[62][63] Morocco is home to more than 20,000 sub-Saharan African immigrants.[64] Some EU member states are currently receiving large-scale immigration: for instance Spain, where the economy has created more than the whole of all the new jobs in the EU over the past five years.[68] The EU, in 2005, had an overall net gain from international migration of +1.8 million people. This accounts for almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005.[69] In 2004, total 140,033 people immigrated to France. Of them, 90,250 were from Africa and 13,710 from Europe.[70] In 2005, immigration fell slightly to 135,890.[71] British emigration towards Southern Europe is of special relevance. Citizens from the European Union make up a growing proportion of immigrants in Spain. They mainly come from countries like the UK and Germany, but the British case is of special interest due to its magnitude. The British authorities estimate that the British population in Spain at 700,000.[72] Mid- and long term EU demographics indicate a shortage of skilled laborers on a scale that would endanger economic growth and the stability of numerous industries. For this reason the European Union launched an initiative called the EU Blue Card, In 2009. The EU Blue Card is initially a temporary residence and work permit. However it will offer holders the opportunity to apply for a permanent resident permit after working on an EU Blue Card for two to five years uninterrupted, depending on individual member state regulations. Pr. January 1, 2012 registered immigrants in Norway numbered 547 000,[73] making up about 11% of the total population. Many are fairly recent immigrants as immigration has gradually increased [74] in Norway and per 2012 is very high, both historically and compared to other countries.[75] Net immigration in 2011 was 47 032, a national record high.[76] The immigrants come from 219 different countries. If children of two immigrants are included the immigrant population make up 655 170. The largest groups come from Poland (72 103), Sweden (36 578), Pakistan (32 737), Somalia (29 395) Iraq (28 935), Germany (25 683), Lithuania (23 941) and Vietnam (20 871) (numbers per 2012, include immigrants and children of two immigrants).[77] Children of Pakistani, Somali and Vietnamese parents made up the largest groups of all Norwegians born to immigrant parents.[78] The European and Pakistani immigrants are mainly labor immigrants while many other immigrants from outside Europe have come as asylium seekers or family members to such. Portugal, long a country of emigration, that have created big Portuguese communities in France, USA and Brazil [79] has now become a country of net immigration, and not just from the former colonies; by the end of 2003, legal immigrants represented about 4% of the population, and the largest communities were from Cape Verde, Brazil, Angola, Guinea-Bissau, UK, Spain, China and Ukraine.[80] Spain is the most favoured European destination for Britons leaving the UK.[81] Since 2000, Spain has absorbed more than three million immigrants, growing its population by almost 10%. Immigrant population now tops over 4.5 million. According to residence permit data for 2005, about 500,000 were Moroccan, another 500,000 were Ecuadorian,[82] more than 200,000 were Romanian, and 260,000 were Colombian.[83][84] In 2005 alone, a regularisation programme increased the legal immigrant population by 700,000 people.[85] As the Swedish government does not base any statistics on ethnicity, there are no exact numbers on the total number of people of immigrant background in Sweden. As of 2010, 1.33 million people or 14.3% of the inhabitants in Sweden were foreign-born. Sweden has been transformed from a nation of emigration ending after World War I to a nation of immigration from World War II onwards. In 2009, immigration reached its highest level since records began with 102,280 people emigrating to Sweden. In 2010, 32000 people applied for asylum to Sweden, a 25% increase from 2009, the highest amount in Swedish history.[86] In 2009, Sweden had the fourth largest number of asylum applications in the EU and the largest number per capita after Cyprus and Malta.[87] [88] Immigrants in Sweden are mostly concentrated in the urban areas of Svealand and Götaland and the five largest foreign born populations in Sweden come from Finland, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Poland and Iran.[89] United Kingdom[edit] In 2011, an estimated 589,000 migrants arrived to live in the UK for at least a year, most of the migrants were people from Asia (particularly the Indian subcontinent) and Africa,[93] while 338,000 people emigrated from the UK for a year or more.[93] Following Poland's entry into the EU in May 2004 it was estimated that by the start of 2007, 375,000 Poles had registered to work in the UK, although the total Polish population in the UK was believed to be 500,000. Many Poles work in seasonal occupations and a large number are likely to move back and forth over time. Some migrants left after the world economic crisis of 2008. In 2011, citizens of the new EU member states made up 13% of the immigrants entering the country.[93] As of May 2010 the UK Immigration Minister was Damian Green, who has since been replaced by Mark Harper. The British Asian (South Asian) population has increased from 2.2 million in 2001 to over 4.2 million in 2011,[94] while the Black British community has increased from 1.1 million in 2001 to nearly 1.9 million in 2011.[94] Between 2001 and 2009, this was part of a general trend seeing a drop in white British people by 36,000 and a concurrent rise in non-white British people from 6.64 million to 9.13 million, including Chinese, Pakistani, mixed white and black Caribbean, black African, Australian, Canadian and European immigrants.[95] London has the largest immigrant population.[9] North America[edit] Large numbers of Central American migrants who have crossed Guatemala's border into Mexico are deported every year.[96] Over 200,000 undocumented Central American migrants were deported in 2005 alone.[97] In a 2010 news story, USA Today reported, "... Mexico's Arizona-style law requires local police to check IDs. And Mexican police freely engage in racial profiling and routinely harass Central American migrants, say immigration activists."[98] Chinatown in Downtown Toronto, Ontario. In March 2005, Statistics Canada projected that the visible minority proportion will comprise a majority in both Toronto and Vancouver by 2012. Canada's is driven by economic policy and family reunification, and is aiming for between 240,000 and 265,000 new permanent residents in 2012.[101] In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada. Newcomers settle mostly in the major urban areas of Toronto and Vancouver. Since the 1990s, the majority of Canada's immigrants have come from Asia.[102] The leading emigrating countries to Canada are China, Philippines and India.[103] India was the third largest source country for immigration to Canada in 2012, with 28,889 permanent residents admitted. This represents an increase of almost 15 percent since 2004.[104] In 2010, a record 280,636 people immigrated to Canada.[105] Accusing a person of racism in Canada is usually considered a serious slur.[106] All political parties are now cautious about criticizing of the high level of immigration, because, as noted by the Globe and Mail, "in the early 1990s, the old Reform Party was branded 'racist' for suggesting that immigration levels be lowered from 250,000 to 150,000."[107] United States[edit] Naturalization ceremony in New York City, 1930 Historians estimate that fewer than 1 million immigrants – perhaps as few as 400,000 – crossed the Atlantic during the 17th and 18th centuries.[108] Relatively few 18th-century immigrants came from England: only 80,000 between 1700 and 1775, compared to 350,000 during the 17th century.[109] In addition, between the 17th and 19th centuries, an estimated 645,000 Africans were brought to what is now the United States.[110] In the early years of the United States, immigration was fewer than 8,000 people a year.[111] After 1820, immigration gradually increased. From 1850 to 1930, the foreign born population of the United States increased from 2.2 million to 14.2 million. The highest percentage of foreign born people in the United States was found in this period, with the peak in 1890 at 14.7%. During this time, the lower costs of Atlantic Ocean travel in time and fare made it more advantageous for immigrants to move to the U.S. than in years prior. From 1880 to 1924, over 25 million Europeans migrated to the United States,[108] mainly economic migrants.[112] The 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act meanwhile suppressed immigration from East Asia, while the Emergency Quota Act, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924, restricted immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe.[113] German immigrant family in the United States, 1930 Following this time period, immigration fell because in 1924 Congress passed the Immigration Act of 1924, which favored immigrant source countries that already had many immigrants in the U.S. by 1890.[114] Immigration patterns of the 1930s were dominated by the Great Depression, and in the early 1930s, more people emigrated from the United States than immigrated to it.[115] Immigration continued to fall throughout the 1940s and 1950s, but it increased again afterwards.[78] The Mexico–U.S. border in Arizona. The Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1965 (the Hart-Cellar Act) removed quotas on large segments of the immigration flow and legal immigration to the U.S. surged. In 2006, the number of immigrants totaled record 37.5 million.[117] After 2000, immigration to the United States numbered approximately 1,000,000 per year. Despite tougher border security after 9/11, nearly 8 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2005 – more than in any other five-year period in the nation's history.[118] Almost half entered illegally.[119] In 2006, 1.27 million immigrants were granted legal residence. Mexico has been the leading source of new U.S. residents for over two decades; and since 1998, China, India and the Philippines have been in the top four sending countries every year.[120] The U.S. has often been called the "melting pot" (derived from Carl N. Degler, a historian, author of Out of Our Past), a name derived from United States' rich tradition of immigrants coming to the US looking for something better and having their cultures melded and incorporated into the fabric of the country. Appointed by President Clinton, the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, led by Barbara Jordan, called for reducing legal immigration to about 550,000 a year.[121] Since September 11, 2001, the politics of immigration has become an extremely hot issue. It was a central topic of the 2008 election cycle.[122] The number of foreign nationals who became legal permanent residents (LPRs) of the U.S. in 2009 as a result of family reunification (66 percent) outpaced those who became LPRs on the basis of employment skills (13 percent) and humanitarian reasons (17 percent).[123] Since World War II, more refugees have found homes in the U.S. than any other nation and more than two million refugees have arrived in the U.S. since 1980. Of the top ten countries accepting resettled refugees in 2006, the United States accepted more than twice as much as the next nine countries combined.[124] One econometrics report in 2010 by analyst Kusum Mundra suggested that immigration positively affected bilateral trade when the U.S. had a networked community of immigrants, but that the trade benefit was weakened when the immigrants became assimilated into American culture.[125] Persons Obtaining Legal Permanent Resident Status Fiscal Years 1820 to 2010 Somali-American community activist. Year Year Year 1820 8,385 1915 326,700 1999 644,787 1821 9,127 1925 294,314 2000 841,002 1822 6,911 1935 34,956 2001 1,058,902 1825 10,199 1945 38,119 2002 1,059,536 1835 45,374 1955 237,790 2003 703,542 1845 114,371 1965 296,697 2004 957,883 1855 200,877 1975 385,378 2005 1,122,373 1865 248,120 1985 568,149 2006 1,266,129 1875 227,498 1995 720,177 2007 1,052,415 1885 395,346 1996 915,560 2008 1,107,126 1895 258,536 1997 797,847 2009 1,130,818 1905 1,026,499 1998 653,206 2010 1,042,625 The table above does not include the years 2011 and 2012. According to Permanent residence (United States), in 2011 there were 2.7 million entries entered in the Diversity Visa Lottery. So far in 2012, there has been 19.6 million participants.[when?] The numbers increase tremendously each year. There is now a waiting period held by the U.S. government to decide who will be eligible for entry as a permanent resident of the United States. Countries of birth of Australian estimated resident population (Australian Bureau of Statistics, 2006[127]). The overall level of immigration to Australia has grown substantially during the last decade. Net overseas migration increased from 30,000 in 1993[128] to 118,000 in 2003-04.[129] The largest components of immigration are the skilled migration and family re-union programs. The mandatory detention of unauthorised arrivals by boat has generated great levels of controversy. During the 2004-05, total 123,424 people immigrated to Australia. Of them, 17,736 were from Africa, 54,804 from Asia, 21,131 from Oceania, 18,220 from United Kingdom, 1,506 from South America, and 2,369 from the rest of Europe.[102] 131,000 people migrated to Australia in 2005-06[130] and migration target for 2012–13 is 190,000.[131][132] New Zealand[edit] New Zealand has relatively open immigration policies. 23% of the population was born overseas, mainly in Asia, Oceania, and UK, one of the highest rates in the world. In 2010-2014, an annual target of 45,000±5000 immigrants was set by the Immigration New Zealand.[citation needed] Economic effects[edit] The Cato Institute finds little or no effect of immigration on the income of citizens belonging to established populations.[134] The Brookings Institution finds a 2.3% depression of wages from immigration from 1980 to 2007.[135] The Center for Immigration Studies finds a 3.7% depression wages from immigration from 1980 to 2000.[136] Research indicates that immigrants are more likely to work in risky jobs than U.S.-born workers, partly due to differences in average characteristics, such as immigrants' lower English language ability and educational attainment.[137] Further, some studies indicate that higher ethnic concentration in metropolitan areas is positively related to the probability of self-employment of immigrants.[138] According to the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia, "In Europe, 28% of foreigners between the ages of 25 and 49 are unable to find work, with unemployment rates as high as 35% for Turks and Pakistanis and 60% for recent immigrant groups such as Somalis."[139] Toronto’s unemployment rate was 6.7% in November 2010, including 19.7% among recent immigrants.[140] See also[edit] 1. ^ Definition of immigration by the Free Online Dictionary 3. ^ a b Global Estimates and Trends. International Organization for Migration. 2008. Retrieved on 30 October 2009. 4. ^ Rich world needs more foreign workers: report at the Wayback Machine (archived December 18, 2008),, December 02, 2008. Archived December 18, 2008. 8. ^ 150 Million Adults Worldwide Would Migrate to the U.S. 27. ^ "Inmates on hunger strike in Japan immigration centre". Google News. May 19, 2010 30. ^ Dustmann, Christian. "Labor market effects on immigration". Business Source Elite. Retrieved 10/4/12. 31. ^ Remittance Prices Worldwide 32. ^ "The Universal Declaration of Human Rights". United Nations. 1948 (original work). Retrieved 30 October 2009. 34. ^ "The Universal Declaration of Human Rights". United Nations. 1948 (original work). Retrieved 25 July 2010. 35. ^ "Family Reunification", Ramah McKay, Migration Policy Institute. 37. ^ in Yemen marriage regulations state that a wife must obey her husband and must not leave home without his permission.[5] 39. ^ 40. ^ 41. ^ 42. ^ 43. ^ 44. ^ 45. ^ 46. ^ 47. ^ 49. ^ A national liberation movement: Rockaway, Robert. Zionism: The National Liberation Movement of The Jewish People at the Wayback Machine (archived December 16, 2007), World Zionist Organization, January 21, 1975, accessed August 17, 2006). Shlomo Avineri:(Zionism as a Movement of National Liberation at the Wayback Machine (archived October 12, 2007), Hagshama department of the World Zionist Organization, December 12, 2003, accessed August 17, 2006). Neuberger, Binyamin. Zionism - an Introduction, Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, August 20, 2001. Retrieved August 17, 2006. 50. ^ accessed Feb 2009 54. ^ a b c 平成20年末現在における外国人登録者統計について(Number of Foreign residents in Japan) 56. ^ 23 Session of the National Diet, Committee on judicial affairs　[6] 57. ^ 帰化許可申請者数等の推移 60. ^ "Refugees in Japan". The Japan Times Online. October 12, 2008 61. ^ "Japan's refugee policy" 62. ^ "Questioning Japan's 'Closed Country' Policy on Refugees". Isozaki Yumi, Journalist, Mainichi Shimbun. 66. ^ Eurostat News Release on Immigration in EU 70. ^ Immigration and the 2007 French Presidential Elections 72. ^ Innvandring og innvandrere SSB, retrieved November 24, 2012 73. ^ Innvandringer1, etter innvandringsgrunn og innvandringsår. 1990-2011 SSB, retrieved November 24, 2012 75. ^ 2011 ga nok en gang innvandringsrekord SSB, retrieved November 24, 2012 76. ^ Folkemengde 1. januar 2011 og 2012 og endringene i 2011, etter innvandringskategori og landbakgrunn. Absolutte tall SSB, retrieved November 24, 2012 77. ^ a b [7] Jenson, Campbell, and Emily Lennon. "Historical Census Statistics on the Foreign born population." 78. ^ "Portugal - Emigration". Retrieved 2009-04-22. 79. ^ Charis Dunn-Chan ,Portugal sees integration progress, BBC 87. ^ Statistics Sweden. [8] Befolkningsutveckling; födda, döda, in- och utvandring, gifta, skilda 1749–2007 93. ^ a b "Census 2011 mapped and charted: England & Wales in religion, immigration and race". Guardian. Retrieved 11 December 2012. 98. ^ Immigration to the United States 99. ^ 100. ^ "Supplementary Information for the 2012 Immigration Levels Plan". Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Retrieved February 11, 2012. 106. ^ Is the current model of immigration the best one for Canada?, Globe and Mail, 12 December 2005. Retrieved 16 August 2006. 107. ^ a b "A Look at the Record: The Facts Behind the Current Controversy Over Immigration". American Heritage Magazine. December 1981. Volume 33, Issue 1. 108. ^ "The People of British America, 1700-1750", Foreign Policy Research Institute. 114. ^ A Great Depression?, by Steve H. Hanke, Cato Institute 115. ^ US Immigration History. retrieved from Accessed 30 November 2012. 116. ^ Stephen Ohlemacher, Number of Immigrants Hits Record 37.5M, Washington Post 122. ^ "CBO: 748,000 Foreign Nationals Granted U.S. Permanent Residency Status in 2009 Because They Had Immediate Family Legally Living in America". January 11, 2011 127. ^ Australian Bureau of Statistics, International migration 128. ^ Australian Bureau of Statistics, 3101.0 Australian Demographic Statistics 129. ^ Settler numbers on the rise at the Wayback Machine (archived June 9, 2007) Media Release by Amanda Vanstone. Former Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (2003 - 2007). Archived June 9, 2007. 135. ^ "Increasing the Supply of Labor Through Immigration". Center for Immigration Studies. Retrieved 24 September July 2010. Further reading[edit] External links[edit]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant	<urn:uuid:f81f27ea-41f3-41e8-8129-15b5db596883>	en	0.918822	0.019059
Palestine, Israel and the UN Nerves are jangling again Will Israeli and Palestinian leaders let a renewal of violence in Gaza get out of control and make diplomacy even harder to revive? See article Readers' comments Burak M Hey economist how you doing? Good I hope because you should be proud of your magazine as it seems to be now embraced by many more with balanced articulate views. How? Because before the comments on here would be staunchly attack Palestinians and portray Israel as angelic peace loving people. However many now see the conflict for what it is. As though placing draconian embargoes, having soldiers shoot protesting kids here and there, having possibly the most extreme right wing government in the world, building on occupied land that even the UN finds illegal, humiliating a whole people was not enough, now characters like Lieberman would like to see Abbas and Fatah punished for what? Oh that's right for starting the process of being a sovereign state. How dare he!!!!!!!. Before anyone comes back at me with the cliche line of "try to live in rocket shelters" etc , let me say that I am against such actions of Hamas, as they cause much more suffering on both sides than doing any good. But before any of you ask me that, ask yourselves what would it be like living in Palestine as the small jail it has been forced to become where kids are lucky to get basic medical requirements. And no one bother trying to simplify this comment as anti Semite. Infact I love some Jews ie Chomsky, Soros, Fieldman(sometimes). All in all this is Palestinians saying enough of apartheid like policies of the occupier. Oh and for the record this is a much fair unbiased peace about the conflict than many including NYT. Burak M in reply to Attendant Lord If what your really asking (and I assume is this) whether I believe Israel has a right to exist? Than yes I do. I believe there should be a state where although it should be secular and have equality, that it should inherently have a Jewish identity. I do however have a problem with such a state being built on the homes of others when these innocent people had nothing to do with the policies and actions of Nazi Germany. So Nazis gas Jews, and Palestineans pay the price?? Hmmm. Hence I respect most things that abide by international law. And you? Do have respect for anything at all that is critical of Israel? Or you believe Israel is justified in everything it does and that its occupation is a holy right? benificence in reply to Attendant Lord In 1948, the UNGA was in the middle of recommending trusteeship for Palestine as per indications of UNSC when Israel, and it would not have succeeded without USA complicity and support, declared independence although if we are to abide by standards of international law, the declaration was illegal. UNGA can only make recommendations. It is only the UNSC under Chapter VII that are legally binding. UN Article 73b specifically defines how UN assumes responsibility for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government. The UN also accepts as a sacred trust, the obligation to promote the well-being of the inhabitants of these territories. Palestine would, in 1948, be in such a category. Protocol Addition to the Geneva Conventions are also accepted as international laws. In particular, Article 1 Paragraph 4, relates to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts. These rights are also enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and the Declaration on Principles of International Law. Thus, the Arab countries asked, and it is difficult not to see why this is not a lawful and legitimate request, why did the UNGA believe that it had the power to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants. Within present remit the UNGA does not have, and has never possessed, that power. As King Abdullah stated, "why shouldn't national sovereignty apply to Palestine when Western countries would not for one moment give away their rights of national sovereignty and certainly would not agree to another country dictating those rights." King Abdullah describes how Arabs have been the overwhelming majority in Palestine for nearly 1300 uninterrupted years so why should they accept 600,000 foreigners with many hundreds of thousands more to come; why should Palestine, which is innocent of anti-Semitism, pay for the crimes of Europe? Why, indeed? tzatz in reply to benificence You said: "… why did the UNGA believe that it had the power …" Stop right there. The fact is … that's history … it happened … by the International Body called the UNITED NATIONS … the rest is 'sour grapes' … something Arab/Muslims seem to know a lot about! In 1922 … at the San Remo Conference … the British Mandate over Palestine was granted enshrining in its MISSION STATEMENT … that Britain should help foster a Jewish Homeland … guess what … the San Remo Treaty is also Internationally recognized … part of INTERNATIONAL LAW … The fact is … after WWI … the Arab/Muslims were slaves of the Ottomans … but the Western Powers gave them their freedom … but in doing so … the Great Powers granted the Jewish People the right to live in their ancient homeland … The Arab/Muslims can huff and puff about it … but it's been OVER 100 YEARS and the Jews are NOW INDIGENOUS TO THE MIDDLE EAST … get used to it … stop whining As soon as the Economist publishes any article about the MidEast conflict, dozens of antisemitic resposes show up in the comments. Now I understand why Hitler killed 6 million Jews and the world was nonchalant. Nothing has changed on the planet earth since that time. It's sad but if Israel doesn't defend itself, Holocaust might be reiterated. Attendant Lord in reply to LEO595 Nothing has changed on the planet earth since biblical times. Weakness invites aggression. New religions distinguish themselves from older religions they hope to replace by criticising them. Thus did Christianity attempt to ensure eternal hatred for Jews among Christians ("the Jews killed our Lord") while simultaneously preaching love for fellow man and insuring that few followers even knew that Jesus was Jewish by keeping the church service cloaked in Latin; thus did Islam criticize both Christianity and Judaism for not believing that Mohammad was the new messenger from God. The problem during Hitler's time was not so much that the world was nonchalant as it was that there was nowhere to flee and no ability to respond militarily. Israel of course must defend herself, but no more so than any and every other nation on earth. A nation that does not defend herself will soon fail to exist, unless she is under the total protective umbrella of a larger and more powerful nation. LEO595 in reply to Attendant Lord First, according to Vikipedia, "After the Holocaust became known to the Allies, the British continued to refuse to change their policy of limited immigration, or to admit Jews from Nazi controlled Europe". Second, there was ability to respond militarily, but the US did it when it was too late. Attendant Lord in reply to LEO595 I refer to the ability of the victims, the Jews, to respond militarily. Not only the British, but all nations, refused to admit large numbers of Jews fleeing Nazi controlled Europe. Israel, had it existed, would have been the only nation on earth to have offered refuge to all who came in hopes of saving their lives. Every people needs a nation and a military and its young men must be willing and able to shed blood to defend its borders. Mark S. Oller in reply to LEO595 Not a single autopsied body at Nazi concentration camps was killed by poison gas. Israeli sources now admit that the lampshades made from human skin and the soap made from human fat was a hoax. Even the curator of the Auschwitz museum admits that the gas chamber disguised as a shower was a postwar Soviet creation. And according The International Red Cross, the death toll in Nazi concentration camps was 271,301. Only about 20% of the prisoners were Jewish. This is a minor but equisite example of Nuremburg justice: One notable incident occurred when investigator Joseph Kirschbaum brought a certain Einstein into court to testify that the accused Menzel had murdered Einstein's brother. When the accused was able to point out that the brother was alive and well and, in fact, sitting in court, Kirschbaum was deeply embarrassed and scolded poor Einstein: "How can we bring this pig to the gallows, if you are so stupid to bring your brother into court?" Mark S. Oller in reply to LEO595 Even if Nazi genocide were real, Zionists prevented every attempt to rescue Eurpoean Jews. Ten questions to the Zionists by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L Dean of Nitra Yeshiva c) No ransom will be paid IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber. IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!" IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe". There are additional similar questions to be asked of these atheist degenerates known as "Jewish statesmen", but for the time being let them respond to the ten questions. These Zionist "statesmen" with their great foresight, sought to bring an end two two-thousand years of Divinely ordained Jewish subservience and political tractability. With their offensive militancy, they fanned the fires of anti-Semitism in Europe, and succeeded in forging a bond of Jew-hatred between Nazi-Germany and the surrounding countries. These are the "statesmen" who organized the irresponsible boycott against Germany in 1933. This boycott hurt Germany like a fly attacking an elephant - but it brought calamity upon the Jews of Europe. At a time when America and England were at peace with the mad-dog Hitler, the Zionist "statesmen" forsook the only plausible method of political amenability; and with their boycott incensed the leader of Germany to a frenzy. And then, after the bitterest episode in Jewish history, these Zionist "statesmen" lured the broken refugees in the DP camps to remain in hunger and deprivation, and to refuse relocation to any place but Palestine; only for the purpose of building their State. The Zionist "statesmen" have incited and continue to incite an embittered Jewish youth to futile wars against world powers like England, and against masses of hundreds of millions of Arabs. Mark S. Oller in reply to LEO595 quote from "Uniting Danzig with Germany, by Adolf Hitler, September 19, 1939: At that time there was in Poland a man whose insight and energy were incontestable. I succeeded in coming to an agreement with the late Marshall Pilsudski, which was intended to pave the way towards a peaceful understanding between the two nations, an agreement which, from the outset, did not sanction anything that was created by the Treaty of Versailles, but which endeavored to lay at least the foundations for a reasonable and tolerable side-by-side existence by completely ignoring that treaty.... Danzig was to return to the Reich. An extraterritorial road was to be built to East Prussia—at our expense of course. In return Poland was to receive the most extensive Free Port rights, and similar extraterritorial access. I, on the other hand, on top of that, was prepared to guarantee the existing frontiers, hardly bearable as they were, and finally to let Poland participate in guaranteeing the safety of Slovakia. I cannot imagine what a state of mind the Polish Government was in when it rejected these proposals. I do know, however, that untold millions of Germans gave a sigh of relief because they were of the opinion that in making those proposals I had gone too far. This is an undisguised pro-Nazi website, but it is the only complete text I could find. I admit that parts of the speech are mildly racist, but that does not invalidate the main points. If you do not trust Hitler or jrbooks, read H. G. Wells's prophetic words. The Shape of Things to Come (1933), by H.G. Wells, is written in the form of a fictional history book published in the year 2106. Wells uses this perspective to comment on various social and political phenomena of his time. The latter part of Chapter 10 (Versailles: Seed Bed of Disasters [1]) is devoted to expressing the writer's strong objection to the creation of the Polish Corridor by the victorious WWI Allies, on which Wells placed a large portion of the blame for the rise of Hitler, and (correctly) predicted that it would turn out to be the flash point of a new Europe-wide war. I also recommend "A Jewish Defector Warns America," by Benjamin H. Freedman, 1961. The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The Case Against The Presumed Extermination Of European Jewry by Arthur R. Butz "Judea Declares War on Germany" Exposing the Holocaust™ Hoax Archive Mark S. Oller in reply to LEO595 This is from "The Lies of Simon Wiesenthal; His Holohoax story an outrageous fabrication; His work as "Nazi hunter" and Holocaust™ "historian" a total fraud" Some might put more credence in The Jewish Chronicle than Exposing the Holocaust Hoax Archive. It is right to expose Wiesenthal Accepting that the great Nazi hunter was a braggart and, yes, a liar, can live alongside acknowledging his contribution By Daniel Finkelstein, August 20, 2009 I am wondering why the West and TE are not offering the panacea that they push to China constantly, although China has problems, they are not as severe as flying missiles... the panacea of a general election, and live happily thereafter? Alex DeLarge in reply to Houshu Believe it or not Israel is a functioning democracy. The majority of Israelis are Jewish, and have a tendency to vote in right-wingers like Netanyahu. But there are moderate Jews like those who support Peace Now, and there are Muslim Israelis. Moderate Israelis must be feeling very uncomfortable now because after Netanyahu is done with Hamas he may start on Iran, a much tougher opponent. The US must be wondering how to get it's erstwhile ally back on it's leash before it attacks Iran and sends the Middle East into a conflagration. Expect several thousand Israelis to visit their auntie Ruth in Florida. There is no hope for peace so long as both sides believe that the area is a "holy land" and that "god" intended it for them alone. Israelis and Palistinians are criminally insane and should be treated as such. Alex DeLarge in reply to lambertamr That is far too simplistic a view. As far as the Palestinians (and all Arabs) are concerned, Israel was created out of Palestinian territory in 1948 by the British, who had the mandate (aka colonial authority) there. Many Arabs do not believe Israel has the right to exist. Iran seems to share that view. I expect some Arabs take a more moderate view, but Israel's behaviour makes it hard for them to espouse it. As far as I can tell, Israeli views are more complex. Some believe in Eretz Israel, which includes the West Bank and Gaza and parts of Syria and Jordan. I think people who believe that (and work towards it) are called 'Zionists'. Moderate Israelis want to work towards a two-state solution. Unfortunately for them Netanyahu is currently in charge. Netanyahu, as far as I can tell, is a Zionist. The interesting thing about the current fighting is that Egypt has changed position. Mubarak was kept in line by several billion annually from the US, but the new Egyptian regime has today said it "will not abandon their Gazan brothers". This is important because US funding persuaded Mubarak to limit the flow of weapons across Egypt's border with Gaza...a limit the may now have been lifted. A sign that the situation has fundamentally changed will be Egyptians crossing into Gaza to fight with Hamas against Israel. Perhaps someone will correct me if my views are incorrect. lambertamr in reply to Alex DeLarge Very nice reply and i don't see anything incorrect about your views. The situation is more complex then we could ever discuss on here,and although my view is simplistic, i do feel that it is valid. We have two groups who both believe that god intended the land for them, and they are both killing in defense of that land while at the same time claiming to be religions of peace. If i ever tried to do something violent in the name of god, they'd lock me in the loony bin. The point is, that even a two state solution will not amount to peace when the parties are so utterly delusional. As you said, there are moderates on both sides, and i wish they could grab a hold of the reins. But even then, any government based on religion is inherently undemocratic and oppressive to those citizens not of the national faith. Loyd Eskildson If Iran had 'the bomb,' Israel wouldn't be so obnoxious. Violence will not solve the seemingly everlasting conflict between Palestine and Israel. The ongoing exchange of rockets and tit-for-tat claims from both sides that “they did this, so we are therefore justified to do that” only ensures never-ending violence and deaths. FACT; there are two groups unwilling to leave the region and who will resort to violence in order to protect their claim. Unfortunately, the use of violence from both sides symbolises a distinct failure in acknowledging this fact and only leads down a path towards death and destruction. Therefore, there must be comprises from both sides in order for any peaceful stability to emerge. This will require a drastic change of thinking from both ruling governments and a willingness to compromise so that future generations do not become caught in this cyclical conflict. Force may seem to be a viable option for some, but it is also a product of short-sightedness and a failure to understand the underlying realities of the Israel-Palestine conflict. It simply perpetuates the never-ending cycle of violence and stagnation within the region. A comments on The New York Times: Can you stop terrorism by bombing to ruins a sealed-off crowded territory of refugees? Is that how you get peace? Did that happen after 1,400 people were killed in 2008-2009? The Israeli's who genuinely want peace see this for what it is - an outrageous attack that will only lead to more and more violence on both sides. And NYT needs to stop publishing a blatantly one-sided account that focuses only on Israeli losses. We don't make peace by ignoring the humanity of the other side. My comment: at the time of the Cast Lead operation the Gaza Strip was sealed-off indeed. Four years later, here we are... Yura2009 in reply to LEO595 Of course, an honest man like you always worries about the Palestinian kids growing up in bomb shelters. Indeed, generations of such "bomb shelter" kids have grown up in Gaza grateful to Isreali politicians for the unique lifetime experience. john4law in reply to Yura2009 Moral equivalence propaganda. There would be no bomb shelters if Anti-Semites let Israel live in peace and the Palestinians honored THEIR Peace Agreements. You hate Israel and that is all there is to it! john4law in reply to Yura2009 Attendant Lord in reply to Klara_M Please review the Infitada, which ended the peace by beginning the suicide bombings in Israel, which led to the building of the Wall. You have forgotten that many Palestinians used to come into Israel to work before the Infidata, and that Palestine had at that time one of the world's fastest growth rates. As a result of the extremism that followed, Palestine suffered loss of Israeli jobs, and the building of the Wall. Anyone who reads the Hamas Charter will stop talking about peace and peace talks, as the Charter calls upon Hamas to eschew all peace talks and all international agreements. Of course let us not forget that, under the edicts of the ruling Likud party, there must never be a Palestinian state. Never. Not if they throw down their weapons, cede half the West Bank and all of East Jerusalem, and agree to lie prostrate so that Israelis can walk on their backs. NEVER. That is the Likud position. the only problem in all this is that 70 years ago,a british government and the UN decided that it shouldn't be a problem to parachute a new country inside the middle east by occupying someone else's land thinking that yeah they'll get used to their new neighbors.well newsflash : the palestinians will never forget that this is THEIR land and they will always shoot rockets because their land is OCCUPIED. and frankly it's their right.occupy my country and we would've done the same. Sam88488 in reply to john4law my friend I have absolutely nothing against jews but you cannot go throught history messing up and using this phrase.no one wants to get rid of the jews but you cannot occupy someone else's land and expect them not to retaliate. john4law in reply to Sam88488 You decree the Jews out of Israel on pain of death. Who are you??? Hundreds of International treaties, resolutions, United Nations or League of Nations Mandates or the agreements signed BY THE PALESTINIANS THEMSELVES, mean NOTHING TO YOU?? What does??? The death of the Jew is all I can think of Mister!! You and your ilk have been reaching for that blessed moment for thousands of years but are NOT going to get it!! ghostoflectricity in reply to Sam88488 All the modern states of the Middle East are fabricated from previous empires. You single out Israel, for the obvious reasons. The Jews were pushed out of all the Arab and Muslim countries and sought one piece of land, a SMALL one, and Sam88488 (does that stand for Heil Hitler for Heil Hitler? You're pretty transparent.) wants to blame the Jews. Attendant Lord in reply to Sam88488 The British Government was one of the Allies that won World War I. That is what happens in war; one side wins, another loses. The Allies carved up the entire region once controlled by the Turkish Caliphate, in order to create a bunch of smaller states that could compete with each other instead of there being one huge powerful state. At the same time, Muslims in India were given Pakistan and there was a great migration. Once Israel declared herself a state, the surrounding Arab states expelled as many Jews as there were Palestinian refugees. There never was a country named Palestine. When the Caliphate was divided up, there were landholders, largely Arab and absentee, who legally sold their lands to Jewish groups. When the UN decided to divide the region of the British protectorate into two separate regions, an actual nation was offered to the Arabs living there and another nation to the Jews. The Jews accepted; the Arabs revolted and lost the war. It is time to get over it, and adjust to the new reality, like every other people has done. These are the only ones who have not. marting456 in reply to Sam88488 But expelling 1 million Jews from Arab countries 70 years ago and confiscating their property was I guess ok with you. It's fine to take land and property from Jews but not the Arabs', right? Take your nazi propaganda somewhere else. marting456 in reply to Mark S. Oller The sites you quoted look like makeshift Arab/Nazi propaganda. You might as well have quoted from Der Stürmer. I met many Jewish refugees from Arab countries and Holocaust survivors. They all said the exact opposite. Mark S. Oller in reply to marting456 This is the first time I heard that Neturei Karta and Jews Not Zionists are Arab/Nazis, although I have known Zionists to equate Arabs with Nazis. That includes Arab Jews. An Arab is a native speaker of Arabic, and Arab Palestinian Jews are among the greatest victims of the Zionist barbarians. Mark S. Oller in reply to marting456 North Africa was colonized by the French, and there is a vast difference between Saudi Arabia and Palestine or Lebanon. Nor do I consider homosexuality "gay" or healthy, but it is widespread in Arab cultures. john4law in reply to Sebastianin Sorry: I do not know which of my comments you are referring to. Israel is NOT going to commit suicide! If it goes down, unlike Czechoslovakia, it is going to take a LOT OF COMPANY with it. If you don't think that will affect the world at large, be a fool. Alex Kilgour So, to all those suggesting that Israel has "started" this current situation. I would like for you to take a look at your pretty little city where you live (London, Paris, Berlin perhaps) and ask yourself how you would feel if 150 rockets mounted with explosives were fired into your pretty little city in 2 weeks. How would you feel when over 700 rockets were fired in the last year? What would you, as a citizen, say when your government hasn't taken any action to stop those who are doing this? How many Israelis need to die before western civilians recognize that the Paletinians ARE NOT PACIFISTS. Does Israel hold a portion of the blame for this situation? Of course. But so do the Palestinians. So do all of the surrounding Arab nations who stoke this situation to maintain control of their uneducated mob. More of the blame lands at the feet of the US and French governments. But most of the blame belongs to the British government and the UN itself who approved of creating this Jewish homeland by booting the current residents out. The Jews in Israel have only 3 choices. They can pick up and leave, scattering to the corners of the globe (like they used to be), they can surrender and allow the Arabs to take over (in which case we'll have another holocaust) or they can fight and defend their land and themselves. If you were faced with those choices in your pretty little town, which one would you choose? F R O Y in reply to Alex Kilgour And how would you feel if your city was placed under siege by a foreign power for over six consecutive years, exports blocked and imports severely restricted (let alone emigration and immigration), if this foreign power declared most of your farming land and fishing waters "no-go zone", if this foreign power made incursions into the city with complete impunity shooting and killing whoever they pleased? You forgot the last, and, if unlikely, most sensible choice: end the occupation. Lift the siege on Gaza. Leave Palestinians alone. Sadly, much like you, Israelis don't seem to have taken this option into consideration. galiliyo in reply to F R O Y Last time I've looked at the map - Gaza shared a border with Egypt, the same Egypt which is now ruled by Hamas' ideological parent - the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe enough with this "Gaza Siege" nonsense? If they are starving in Gaza why don't they import rice instead of Iranian missiles? I am not justifying Israel's right wing government and it's policy land grab in the West Bank, but nobody seems to care when 1 million Israeli citizens are under a constant bombardment from Gaza for years - all we hear about is this "Gaza Siege" lie. Alex Kilgour in reply to F R O Y There was an extensive 50 year history getting to the point where Israel decided to build a wall, arm the portals, and try to control the Paletinians through economic means. The first mistake in the whole mess was the British and the UN creating a Jewish homeland on top of land already occupied by someone. Although, maybe we can blame the Romans for expelling the Jews. Or perhaps let's go back to the Babylonians because the Romans just copied their earlier methods. The problem is that both sides can point to an earlier wrong done by the other side, and both sides refuse to put aside the past and move forward. Israel has a very real grievance, my point is that most people only look at the one side. The wall has reduced the suicide bombings, at least, and now Hamas has resorted to indiscriminately firing rockets into cities. The only long-term solution is for an economy to be developed in Palestine. If the Palestinians managed to find oil, then people would be interested in helping them. Otherwise, they need help to develop a functioning economy. Men who work all day to feed their families and who can come home to a happy household and sports on TV don't tend to strap high explosive vests on or fire rockets into other cities. I agree with you that the Israeli response is not helping. But we did travel a road to get to that point. You can understand their response if you look at what they endured in the way of suicide bombings and rockets prior to locking Palestine down. F R O Y in reply to galiliyo So far Egypt has played his part as Israel's subcontractor in keeping the siege on his single entry to the strip. Maybe that will change under the Brotherhood's leadership, but so far it hasn't. And Israel is still the one controlling 6 of the seven border entries, the airspace and maritime waters of Gaza. So yes, it is indeed a siege. F R O Y in reply to Alex Kilgour Each side can point at the other and voice their grievances, but I think we can agree here on who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed. And once that is clear, there is little else to say. Oppression will always be at the root of violence, because oppression is violence itself. The oppressed will use it to liberate themselves, and the oppressors will use it to maintain their privileged position. Only ending oppression will end violence. Alex Kilgour in reply to F R O Y Words like oppressor are loaded with meaning and are used for very specific purposes of conveying meaning. Israel was attacked by an alliance of nations looking to perform genocide on the Jews in Israel. They defeated the enemy forces, and in doing so anexed land that had been in the possession of their attackers. It was a defensive occupation. That said, I agree that Israel is not helping their situation or the plight of the Palestinians with their current actions. I just happen to understand how they got to the point of making these decisions and I can sympathize with that even though I would prefer to see a different situation created. It would, however, require a shift in emotion in the area which those in charge have no interest in seeing happen. The Hamas leadership are most happy when Israeli hard-liners are in power, it lets them use the external bogey-man to keep everyone behind them. F R O Y in reply to Alex Kilgour Israel was attacked by an alliance of nations seeking to prevent the colonization of Arab land by foreigners. Months before that war, Jewish militias had begun a ruthless ethnic cleansing campaign against Arab villages, perpetrating atrocities like the Deir Yassin massacre. Arab nations had reasons to be concerned about the colonialists' intentions. Understanding how a regime got to make decisions doesn't justify them. galiliyo in reply to F R O Y The Egyptians share a border with Gaza, so let them take care of their bothers and by lifting the "Siege". If they refuse to open thier border with the Gaza strip then they are to be held responsible for the suffering of the civilian population just like Israel (and more so). Why doesn't anyone complain to UN about them? Israel has left Gaza and as result got bombarded by thousands of missiles, just as has left Lebanon with similar consequences. Hamas has sworn to a violent Jihad and is getting what it had asked for. Hilary Hahn in reply to Alex Kilgour I have asked myself the same question and I agree that I would want the government to respond to that situation. However, have you asked yourself the question WHY the Palestinians continue to fire rockets AND why the Israelis continue to build new developments in the West Bank? I think we need to be honest here. The Jews have another option which is to work on a real and lasting peace agreement as outlined by the Clinton administration and halt new developments. End of story. ghostoflectricity in reply to F R O Y They've had Gaza for the last 3/4 decade- 7 1/2 years since Israel withdrew. They chose to turn it into an Islamo-extremist, martial enclave, launching thousands of rockets at the Israeli population. That is, except for the expensive Mediterranean villas on high-end beach-front real estate built for Hamas cronies- so much for the "starving, suffering, oppressed" Gazans. They also taught their young that there is to be no peace with Israel- pre- or post'67, what-have-you. They taught their young that Jews are at the root of all evil in the world and that Jews are "the sons of pigs and apes." And yet you blame the Jews. I know what kind of "human being" you are. Attendant Lord in reply to F R O Y Why on earth would Israel do that when, after withdrawing from Gaza without setting restrictions, Gaza turned itself almost immediately into a launching pad for suicide bombers and missiles? Have you READ the Hamas Charter, not one word of which has ever been changed? If you read it you will discover why there cannot be peace. The Charter calls upon the Palestinians not to rest until they have destroyed the Israeli state. Period. Read it and then return to comment: http://middleeast.about.com/od/palestinepalestinians/a/me080106b.htm F R O Y in reply to Attendant Lord Hamas has repeatedly declared truces with Israel in Gaza, only to be shattered by Israel when it suited it to have the rockets back. They did so right after Hamas's electoral election in 2006, shelling a crowded beach and killing an entire family, and they did it again in 2008, launching an incursion that killed 6 Hamas militants. You have to accept that it has never been about rockets. Israel doesn't give a fig about the inhabitants of Sderot. Actually, the rockets and the pain they cause are the perfect excuse to launch major punitive operations in Gaza with full popular support. This time it has been no different. A truce was mediated by Egypt on November 11th. On 13th Hamas managed to have the other groups pledge to keep it. Then on 14th Israel killed Jabril, making sure the rockets will not stop flowing, so "Pillar of Defense", which probably had been planned months ago, could be launched on time for the elections. In Your Face in reply to F R O Y "Hamas has repeatedly declared truces with Israel in Gaza". Don't be ridiculous Froy. In their short history the palestinians have managed to make hundred of agreements and sign hundreds of truces with many different parties. There is not ONE SINGLE INSTANCE in which they abided by an agreement. And I'm not talking only about their agreements with Israel. Every couple of months you read in the news about an agreement between Hamas an Fatah to reslove their diffrences and reunite. And what happens next? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This is a people with a culture of not keeping solemn promises and not honoring their word. That's what makes it hopless to try and do any diplomacy with them. For them a "truce" means, at best, a reduction in rocket firing, never an absolute halt. The concept of strictly and absolutely adhering to a truce or to any other form of commitment is simply alien to them. F R O Y in reply to In Your Face What agreement has Hamas ever signed with Israel, exactly? The only agreements reached by those two have been "tacit truces" mediated by Egypt and which, as I said, Israel systematically shattered on every occasion, despite the efforts from Hamas to halt rocket launches. That clearly shows that Israel's recurrent punishment of Gaza has nothing to do with rockets and much with forcefully removing an undesired leadership, and probably with earning electoral support among the most radicalized segments of the Israeli populace. tzatz in reply to F R O Y Oppressor … Arab/Muslim World (400 MILLION STRONG) You can do the math … can't you Froy? I agree with YOU … 'Only ending oppression will end violence.' F R O Y in reply to tzatz You're such a demagogue Tzatz... By your reasoning, Tamils surely can't be oppressed in Sri Lanka, Tamils being 77 million strong world-wide, and poor Sinhalese only 15 million. I guess Chinese also can't be oppressed in Indonesia, them being 1.5 billion people! How could that ever be possible, right? PALESTINIANS in the OPT (4m of them) are being oppressed by Israel (7m, and with one of the most sophisticated armies in the world). You do the math, but it's not like if a small number of people hasn't ever oppressed a much larger population (ever heard of the British Empire? the Raj?). tzatz in reply to F R O Y Let me know the last time the Tamils threatened the Sinhalese with TOTAL DESTRUCTION? You talk about being a demogogue? It's risible! What chutzpah you have Froy! It's the Arab/Israeli Conflict … Froy! It's the Arab/Muslims (and the Persian Shia) continually braying about destroying the 'Zionist entity' … and they've made several attempts and continue to do so. Cosimo Rondo Hamas has been embolden by the Muslim Brotherhood's recent rise to power in Egypt. This year alone, Hamas -- the offspring of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood -- has fired 800 projectiles into Israel proper. To say that Israel has long been patient while under constant enemy barrage would be an understatement. Should the Brotherhood continue to support Hamas' wanton acts of terrorism, they not only risk jeopardising Egypt's thirtythree year peace accord with Israel and its attendant consequences, but also a pecuniary loss vis-a-vis the United States, should the Americans come to the realisation that an Islamist Egyptian government is not an ally -- as Obama stated earlier this year* -- but another radical player in that tumultuous region (think Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, al Qaida in Iraq, Iran). * In an interview earlier this year, President Obama said Egypt -- whose Muslim Brotherhood government gave sanction to the Sept. 11th seige on the U.S. embassy in Cairo -- was neither ally nor enemy. Doron Kahn It came after 200 rockets in 4 days fired into southern Israel. What would have been considered as a legitimate reaction by any country is considered as violence when it comes to Israel. F R O Y in reply to Doron Kahn Right, and Israel did not fire any missile in Gaza in all that time. They did not make any incursion into Gaza. They did not kill any civilians. They did not assassinate any Palestinian leader. It was all unprovoked. Or perhaps that's just the natural prerogative of the occupation power, and can't be taken into account. Only the occupied's actions count as provocations. Gbox in reply to F R O Y Hamas has clearly stated that they are at war with Israel, so killing one of their military commanders is not an assassination, its a casualty of war. Also, the Israelis do not randomly fire rockets into Gaza, they aim at combatants, who, like the cowardly fanatics they are, shoot from positions adjacent to civilian areas hoping for civilian casualties. After all, they do keep saying they love death and the Israelis love life. Doron Kahn in reply to F R O Y Facts will be welcomed.it seems you have a very poor or biased view of reality .here some facts for you to learn: a.israel left gaza on2005 therefore gaza is not occupied b.killing civilians is not a mission of the israelis (as opposed to deliberately firing rockets at civilians)but a by product due to the palestinian usage of human shields (for example hiding rockets in kindergardens) c.no political leader was killed unless he himself was involved in killing anyway, im sure you wont let the facts confuse you F R O Y in reply to Doron Kahn When a foreign force can enter at will into your territory, when it controls your borders, maritime waters and airspace, when it can decide the amount of calories your population can consume, when it can kill whoever it wants whenever it wants, you are still under occupation. They merely moved it from the inside to the borders, but it's no different from the West Bank. That's why the entire world still considers Gaza as occupied. ghostoflectricity in reply to F R O Y GBox and Doron Kahn: You're wasting your time. FROY (notice the all caps- what an insecure narcissist) is exactly what the Jews have faced for the last 4,000 years. He is soulless, sociopathic jerk with no sense of right and wrong, looking for a scapegoat to blame all his personal troubles and the world's problems on. Why not blame the Jews. FROY and his ilk will never change. tzatz in reply to F R O Y The Hamastanis … shot a missile at a military jeep … inside Israel injuring 4 soldiers and destroying the vehicle … along with the attempt earlier that same week … of blowing up a tunnel alongside the Israeli border … missing the soldiers nearby … but only just! These 'bold' moves triggered the 'targeted killing' of the thug 'Jabari' … he had been underground in hiding but decided to come up for air and he was swatted down! The use of an advanced weapon against Israel … WITHOUT PROVOCATION AND INSIDE ISRAELI TERRITORY … were the 'steps' that triggered this latest 'escalation'. Hamas wanted to insert themselves on the world stage … Abbas & co were getting all the press in going to the UN and all … jealousy sparked this episode. Jealousy and over playing their hand … Hamas figured their 'big brothers' … Turkey & Egypt will bring the cowboys to the rescue … can you say … oops? Do you think Turkey and Egypt will come to the defense of Hamas? Do you? F R O Y in reply to tzatz The "Hamastanis" shot a military jeep on November 10th. On November 8th Israel carried out an incursion inside Gaza, killing a 13 year-old boy in the process. Can you use a calendar, Tzatz? November 8th comes before November 10th, or did you miss that Sesame Street program? Before and after. It can be tricky, I know. But perhaps you just consider that Israel's actions just don't count as a cause of conflict. They are merely the prerogative of the master, and anything but submissive acceptance will deserve righteous punishment. It must work the same with truces, for why else would Israel have assassinated a Hamas leader one day after the islamists had agreed to a ceasefire? Obviously truces are something to be observed by the "savages" alone. Masters are well above such unbecoming constrictions. tzatz in reply to F R O Y The border incident I mentioned in the same paragraph Froy … sloppy reading skills … don't get too close to Elmo now Froy … although I want it known … I'M GAY POSITIVE … no prejudice here! The fact is … the Hamastanis … were itching for a fight … they dug a tunnel adjacent the Israeli border … and blew it up real good … EXCEPT … THEY MISSED THE SOLDIERS … AND BLEW A VEHICLE 20 FEET IN THE AIR … THE IDF SAID IT WAS A HUGE EXPLOSION … BUT THE 'GANG THAT COULDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT' … YOUR BUDDIES … MISSED AGAIN … THANKS GOD … INSHALLAH You do the calendar dates Froy. The kid who died was a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. An accident. Don't give me the minutiae Froy. The Hamastanis are in a CONSTANT … NEVER ENDING … WAR WITH THE SOVEREIGN JEWISH STATE. It's their state of being!!! They admit it … how about YOU? Hamas campeign of indiscriminant attacks on Israel's civilians must suffer a severe blow. Godspeed, IDF! john4law in reply to Strait_Forward Somebody has a sane and moral viewpoint about civilians being rocketed out of pure hatred and religious and political bigotry. Arabs specifically and Muslims generally aren't above International Law and peace respecting norms and Jews aren't BENEATH International standards of self defense or national sovereignty. john4law in reply to Strait_Forward Stating that up until now all missiles fired into Israel have been harmless is an imbecilic comment. I am sure that the intent of each of the 750 missiles fired into Gaza this year was not harmless and their effect has terrorized the populace in South Israel. That said, Netanyahu is suffering the repercussions of having done nothing to forward the two state solution, has keep up the usurping of West Bank land, beat the drums endlessly to bomb Iran and in general has been the worst Israeli Prime Minister, arguably, ever. And now the cycle begins again as Hamas attacks Israel civilians recklessly and Israel in turn obliterates Gaza infrastructure. Strait_Forward in reply to RumbaClave You say: '...now the cycle begins again as Hamas attacks Israel civilians recklessly and Israel in turn obliterates Gaza infrastructure.' There is no 'cycle' here. There is cause and consequence: Indiscriminant fire rocket fire on innocent Israelis, 3 of whom were murdered today by those "harmless" rockets. Hamas attacks Israel's civilians, and Israel obliterates TERROR infrastructure, not just infrastructure. ayayay1 in reply to Daniel1984 But at least Israelis make an effort to minimize civilian casualties, which is the total opposite of your buddies, who make it a point to kill as many bystanders as possible, a tradition started all the way back in the 1920s. Ant Aloy * Resolution 694 (1991) - BINDING Adopted by the Security Council at its 2989th meeting on 24 May 1991 The Security Council, Reaffirming its resolution 681 (1990), 3. Decides to keep the situation under review. * Resolution 672 (1990) - BINDING Adopted by the Security Council at its 2948th meeting on 12 October 1990 The Security Council, 1. Expresses alarm at the violence which took place on 8 October at the Al Haram al Shareef and other Holy Places of Jerusalem resulting in over twenty Palestinian deaths and to the injury of more than one hundred and fifty people, including Palestinian civilians and innocent worshippers; 4. Requests, in connection with the decision of the Secretary-General to send a mission to the region, which the Council welcomes, that he submit a report to it before the end of October 1990 containing his findings and conclusions and that he use as appropriate all the resources of the United Nations in the region in carrying out the mission. 24th April 2012 – UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said: Furthermore, I would like to refer you to specific serious concerns raised by the International Court of Justice (2004) - with relevance to the ‘security barrier’ - which was viewed with alarm by the international community. Incidentally the reference to the illegality of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem was also reinforced when the International Court of Justice also found the following (indeed the EU supported the UN vote pertaining to the ‘security barrier’): Mark S. Oller in reply to Hurnanity Zionists and Jewish true believers do not consider themselves bound by non-Jewish laws. They consider the entire human race the enemy. This is an excerpt from a review of Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel, by Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky, in "The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs": Ideological basis of racism in Israel "The Talmud states that...two contrary types of souls exist, a non-Jewish soul comes from the Satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness...Rabbi Kook, the Elder, the revered father of the messianic tendency of Jewish fundamentalism said, "The difference between a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews...is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.' "Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky's "Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel" Mark S. Oller in reply to RumbaClave When did I ever say the New Testament and Koran were any better? The Christian fundamentalists in the GOP and the United States armed forces are the craziest fanatics of all. Just click my name and see some of my previous posts. Ant Aloy Dear All The UN view of the Palestinian Territories can be seen at the following URL: The West Bank and East Jerusalem is occupied Palestine (recognised by 132 nations in the world including India, China, Russia, Brazil, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Iceland). Palestine is still illegally held and sadly Israel has ignored the ruling of the International Court of Justice (subsequently supported by the UN and EU) with respect to the "separation barrier". This "wall" is 3 times the length of the Berlin Wall. UNESCO’s recognition of Palestine last year was supported by France, Spain, Ireland, Belgium. Norway, Greece and other European nations. International law and UN Resolutions (over which there are over 150) are ignored by Israel. God bless *** UN Security Council Resolution 478 (1980) of 20 August 1980 - BINDING Attendant Lord in reply to Ant Aloy I'm a little confused here. The UN voted for the establishment of two states, and Israel set hers up. The Arabs went to war, and instead of driving out the Israelis, lost territory. The same people now calling for some respect for UN resolutions disrespect the first one that partitioned the area into two regions: one for Israelis and one for Arabs. Until they respect the first one, why pay any attention to their picking and choosing amongst the resolutions they prefer and those they reject? The UN Charter itself, article II, contains the following language: The very first act of the Arab states surrounding the brand new state of Israel was an act of war. This is becoming an Israeli elctoral tradition, just like Obama's basketball game. Every time elections approach, Israel launches an attack on Gaza. Nothing like some Palestinian blood to get those voters energized. Strait_Forward in reply to F R O Y It is actually the other way around, FROY. Just like in the Cast Lead days, just before Israel's elections, Hamas always fires a barrage of dozens of rockets on Israeli civilians’ heads. Of course, for some the sight of a Jew defending himself is unacceptable. But Jews can defend themselves today. Even ahead of elections. Strait_Forward in reply to F R O Y 'Palestinians defending themselves', you say? - Calling for Israel's destruction and while at it, indiscriminately attack innocent Israelis, is "defense" in your standard. Logical. After all, what Hamas wants if to kill the Jews, as per their Covenant, Article 7. A perfectly "defensive", and therefore legitimate and worthy goal, isn't it? Thanks for clarifying your point. Daniel1984 in reply to Strait_Forward Your point isn't very strong either. The slaughter taking place at the moment is horrendous, and both sides are guilty. But Israel is killing A LOT more Palestinians, as it has been, for years. Therefore, it can hardly take the moral high ground. Its actions are reprehensible, whatever the excuse, as is the support for them from the U.S., U.K., etc. tzatz in reply to Daniel1984 You want proportionality? There are 300 MILLION ARABS … and tzatz in reply to tzatz You're too slow … the answer is … 150 DEAD MUSLIMS Except … since the Israelis have targeted ONLY HAMAS terrorists … the death toll is only 39 … give the Israelis some applause for behaving themselves like 21st C warriors … AND not like the slugs in the Arab/Muslim World … let's think of say … Do I need to continue? LOL Economist commentators can be relied upon to urge the Jews to accept their wickedness and their destruction and stop arrogantly expecting their cites not to be rocketed at will by those fanatically seeking their destruction. What else is new in The Economist comment pool?? F R O Y in reply to john4law Right, but Palestinians must surely accept their wickedness and their destruction and stop arrogantly expecting their cites not to be sieged, their fishermen and farmers not to be harassed, and their leaders not to be assassinated at will by their colonial masters. Either meekly submit and accept their fate, or suffer the consequences. Attendant Lord in reply to F R O Y From the get go, Palestinians and Arabs have made war on Israelis--even before the Partition. In fact, it was this insistence that Jews not live in the region, even after the Jews legally purchased lands legally and willingly sold to them by Arabs, that eventually got so out of hand that England threw up her hands and decided that partition would be the only "solution" to the ongoing violence. The Palestinians made war time and time again after Israel established a state with the approval of the UN. Each time they made war, they lost more land. They did not withdraw from the lands they lost; they stayed on those lands and made war from them. Had the Israelis made a habit of returning lands the Palestinians lost every time they or their Arab brethren started a war against Israel, it would have been quite an encouragement: you make war and win; you keep the land; you make war and lose, you get to keep the lands you lost. You can't lose! Just keeping attacking until you finally win it all. Yeah, right. tzatz in reply to F R O Y Check your rear-view mirror Froy … your brothers and sisters in the Arab/Muslim World … certainly are behaving like they still live in the MIDDLE AGES! Tribalism … Clans … and look at the way they're dealing with each other in Syria … Libya … et al The last time the Arab/Muslims tasted any success … was in the Middle Ages … don't put them down … BTW … ignorance … uneducated masses was also the 'touchstone' of the Middle Ages … Hmm what's different? A tiny correction. You wrote in the article: "The next day, in an even more dangerous escalation, a rocket killed three Israeli civilians in a town between Gaza and Tel Aviv, Israel’s biggest city." Tel Aviv is only the second most populous city in Israel. Tel Aviv metropolitan Area (Gush Dan) is the biggest though. Also by area, Jerusalem is more than twice the size of TA. When will international comunity stop and sent this Izraeli criminals to the International court of justice at Haag for a war crimes they have done? john4law in reply to stevvo The authentic Palestinian Death to Israel and the Jews crowd have every right to wipe out Israel and particularly its JEWS!!! I fully understand where you and the other One Sided Moralists who infest comment columns about matters Israeli or Liberation of the Middle East are coming from!!! Maybe the Judges on your ideal Court against Israel and the Jews should be the Passover Bomber Planners and the terror Rocket commanders!! Strait_Forward in reply to stevvo You say: Don't you know that targeting innocent civilians, as Hamas does, is the war crime, while fighting the terrorists who target innocent civilians is legitimate? Once you push for Hamas leaders and their Egyptian/Turkish supporters to The Hague, only then could you can talk in the name of war crimes. stevvo in reply to john4law You forgot to mention tanks, aircrafts, nuclear bombs etc. Israel has them or Palestinians? I am not against Izrael and Jews. Just against some criminals who rule the politic there. I still remeber how they murderd unarmed people on those ships and thousands of civilians in Ghaza at last crime they did. raskarll in reply to Strait_Forward and you conviniently forget the many thousands of palestinians killed by the Isreli establishment. i am certain that any assessment of the numbers will show a disproportionate amount on side being killed, its like the lives of Palestinians are worth that of flies and the lives of Israelis are worth more than that of ordinary humans. what do they hope to achieve but constantly flexing their muscles? No one likes a bully and sooner rather than later the status quo will change Attendant Lord in reply to stevvo Just out of curiosity, do you consider using civilians as human shields a "war crime" and, if so, why are you not calling for the International Court of Justice at Haag to send Palestinian criminals to that court for war crimes? Strait_Forward in reply to stevvo You mean the Palestinians, who tried to jkill the Jews, lost, and now they whine "oh, I tried to kill you and now I suffer... bring me back what I once owned, for me to use to try and kill you again...". The Israelis murderred yesterday were killed for one 'crime': they happen to carry an Israeli ID card. That's it. stevvo in reply to Strait_Forward I mean Palestinians who are fighting to come back on their property, in their places in their houses from which Israelis expeld them with rifles. This is the esence of problem. When it will bee solved there will be no more problem. I repeat, for the moment, Israel is teroristic state which don't respects any human and international law in a very similiar way as Hitler did and this is unacceptable from a civilization point of wiev. Israel must be faced with consecvences for such behaviour and it will be. Israelis can't no more count on sympaties and misuse them as they did in a cool blood till now because of holocaust that happend in WW2. New generations who are not loaded with bad concience about that are grown and won't allow that it happens again to anybody. Israel must change it's politic otherwise one morning will be faced with the wall arround himself which havent him built. stevvo in reply to Attendant Lord Using civilians as human shields is crime. No doubts about that. That is what Izraelis said that Palestinians are doing and in a case of Ghaza, it is lie whith which they try to cover what they are doing there for real. Izraerlis military estabilishment knows that any fighter anywhere in the world won't stay longer than a minut at the place from where he fired. Nobody do that. But they shoot anyway althougt they know that target is gone, even without knowing where it exactly was, using weapons for mass destruction. End what is worse, they are using ammo that is strictly prohibited by the Internationa conventions like phosphorus bombs and shells. This are not weapons of pin point accuracy and not weapons for pin point targets but non selectiv weapons for targets that are spread in a wide space. And they use this in so dense settled city as Ghaza is knowing that they will not hit enemy fighter but innocent civilians. That indicates that real targets are not enemy fighters but common people, civilians, and that Izraeli tactik is taking hosteges in a way: "If you shoot on us we will shoot on your people "," If you kill one our soldier we will kill 100 your civilians", etc. That's why so many civilians were killed in last attack on Ghaza. This is war crime. I doubt that Izrael can do the same again without extremly hot reaction of international public opinion. Izrael must count with that and there is another thing which is often forgotn: Jews who live out of Izrael. What about them? How such actions will reflect on their status in surroundings where they live? Peace is the best, bro. The True is, in all wars, first casuality. She dies first. With so much money and afforts which they all spend on wars in this region all people could live like Cezars. But....... we have what we have. And we must try to save what we can. tzatz in reply to stevvo There you have it … THE solution to the Arab/Israeli Conflict. And now back to the 'rest' of the news. LOL No-one can argue that Mahatma Gandhi was an example of the power of passive resistance and peaceful protest. He broke the British Empire in India. The link below is what Gandhi said about Palestine. Read it and weep. In an article by Mahatma Gandhi in 1938, titled "The Jews in Palestine", he concluded his highly complimentary comment on the Jewish people by saying, "They can add to their many contributions, (to humanity), the surpassing contribution of non-violent action" The failure of the Jews in Palestine in the 75 years since those words were written to contribute "non-violent action" in the Middle East arena, and their ongoing militarism, will prove their undoing. If they had followed Gandhi's advice it could have been different. But now the die is cast. "Live by the sword, die by the sword" is inevitable, and the tragic consequences are being played out today. john4law in reply to Ping2 Gandhi also called Hitler "not a bad fellow" and advised the Jews to humbly accept their destruction in the Holocaust. These comments are THE BLACKEST OF MARKS on the record and legacy of this often perverse and VASTLY OVERRATED historic figure. Your quote from Gandhi shows what your true Anti-Semitic agenda is! Ping2 in reply to john4law I backed my comment with a link for you to read what Gandhi wrote. I doubt if you actually read it. Please support your quotes with some evidence. I cannot believe that Gandhi would advise the Jews to accept their destruction in the holocaust. Back it with evidence or your comment has no integrity. Alex Kilgour in reply to Ping2 Amazing what google will do for you Ping2 in reply to Alex Kilgour Well done you open the matter to honest debate. But you commit the error of quoting without reference to context. Gandhi's comment on Hitler was made in early 1940 before Hitler had rolled out his expansion, and even the Brits thought he was a man who could be reasoned with. They were all clearly wrong. On the issue of the context of Gandhi's comment on the death of millions of Jews,(which was made after WW2), Wiki-pedia says "the quote is in the context of Gandhi's argument to his biographer that collective suicide would have been a heroic response that would have "aroused the world and the people of Germany to Hitler's violence". His argument being that they succumbed quietly and only after the war did the world become aware of the horror of the genocide perpetrated by Hitler. If they had sacrificed themselves visibly, the resulting backlash might have aroused the world to prevent it. Or not, we'll never know. But to infer that Gandhi supported Hitler in any way is incorrect. He also did not ask the Jews to "humbly accept their destruction", but to rather use it as a weapon. As he says, they succumbed anyway. and as we now know, to no avail. There was no outrage, no rescue. Don't forget that Ghandi said "It is the greatest crime of our time." The vitriolic nature of your response tells me that I am not in a debate with men of reason but men of poison. Attendant Lord in reply to Ping2 Ghandi was dealing with England; the Jews in the middle east were dealing with Arabs. That is the key difference and why Ghandi was wrong about non-violence. The British traditions and culture and the Arab traditions and culture do not react similarly to non-violence. Just look at the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, which had been occupied by Israel. Did the Arabs there live in peace once Israel withdrew, and once millions were spent by well meaning Jews who left the greenhouses that had supported many Jewish businesses in Gaza intact for the Gazans? The Arabs destroyed the greenhouses immediately and treated the withdrawal as an Arab victory; they immediately launched the Infidada, sending in suicide bombers to blow up civilans, men women and children eating at cafes and pizza parlors; they launched countless rockets into civilian areas. Non violence my foot. Ping2 in reply to john4law If I have substantiated and justified my position why should I retract? Because you petulantly demand it? You will have my retraction if you can convince me that Gandhi was not sincere in his belief that non-violence is more powerful than violence, and that the CONTEXT of his words are critical to the understanding thereof. Read again what I posted above. Before the extent and nature of Hitlers atrocities were known, Gandhi, like the British, the US, Russians, Japanese, along with the aristocracy and ruling class in Europe treated him with respect and offered friendship. Having the benefit of hindsight allows you the advantage to label Hitler as the madman he was. Which proves my point that context counts. In 1938, when Gandhi wrote his piece on Palestine, no-one had the knowledge and the benefit of 20/20 vision with which to make judgement, as you now have. If you had fully extracted the quote from Wiki-pedia, you would have included the emphasis they put on context. If you are so blinded by your cause that you cannot be rational enough to put yourself in the shoes of a man living at that time, and understand the difference between what the world knew then, and what the world knows now, then I cannot help you to see that you are blinded. The fact that you are blinded by hatred imprisons you, not me. I have no pro or anti position, and I can be objective and see the light. Pray tell, what should I retract, and why? Ping2 in reply to Attendant Lord Does not the fact that the Jews and the Arabs are at each others throats yet again, after almost 70 years of living in amongst one another, tend to prove Gandhi's theory that violence just begets violence? You have not tried peace yet. In the words of John Lennon, "give peace a chance". Stop the violence. Ping2 in reply to john4law I like to think of myself as an "Israeli survival realist". The behaviour of the state of Israel in choosing aggession before peace, threatens your survival. Thats not denialism, its realism. Especially when you consider the numbers of Israeli citizens vs the numbers of those re-aligning themselves with Gaza, and the ramifications of the "Arab spring" uprisings. With technology and US backing you have been able to trample on the opposition who have had to throw stones at your F16's and tanks. It remains more or less so, but for how long is the question that would keep me awake at night, if I were an Israeli. If you continue to miss opportunities for reconciliation and peace, you may cross a rubicon from which there is no recovery, and the seeds of your destruction will take root. That's if you are not there already. I don't know, and as an objective observer, I don't have an attitude one way or the other. Although I do so dearly love Jerusalem as a city. Be a real loss to the world if it were flattened in senseless warfare. Your choice. P.S. What makes you think you deserve decency above anyone else. Birthright? tzatz in reply to Ping2 Birthright? Is that double-speak for 'Chosen People'? Just want to get your prejudices on the table Ping2 You know … I play Pings when I play golf … smacking that ball around has taken on 'new' meaning … LOL Ping2 in reply to tzatz Just read the words I wrote in simple English and don't try to look for innuendo and double-speak. There is none. John4law was stamping his feet and childishly demanding retraction and expecting that I show him "decency" by agreeing with him. Why, because it is his birthright to demand that everyone treat him specially? Every person deserves to be shown decency, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu. I never showed him anything but decency. He seems to have retired from any debate by resorting to highschool level monosyllabic "you lie, you lie, you lie" type of response. That tells me the debate with him is over. (I was hoping he would actually read what I said, and engage me with a well-reasoned argument, so that I may broaden my knowledge, and, yes, perhaps even agree to retract some of my earlier statements.) I don't mind abandoning a line of reasoning if it can be shown to be fallacious. To tzatz. I will be the first to acknowledge that I have prejudices as a result of my upbringing and world experience, but I try to be as open-minded on all issues as I can be, especially those which have no effect on my life. But neither you nor John get it when I say that I really do not have any agenda when it comes to the Middle East and its politics. I do not know anyone in the Middle East, and I am half a world away. I have visited several times, and what I observe is the insanity of blood brothers who live cheek by jowl, killing one another over land and religion. The world is outraged and sickened by the senseless killing of civilian women and children on both sides. (Althought he body count is skewed if you analyse the numbers. This tends to tilt world opinion in favour of the underdog, by the way.) If you have to fight, it would be better if all the testosterone-overdosed males on both sides went into the desert and had it out, mano a mano, as in the olden days, and left the innocent women and children out of it. Hope you are getting much more distance from your driver now that you think of me when you hit your Ping. Peace and love to you all. tzatz in reply to Ping2 As a quick retort … let me remind you … that while 'in the old days' the men did do the fighting 'on the battlefield' … the women and children suffered too … that is, once the battle was over the victors … ALWAYS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE WOMEN & CHILDREN!!! Ask any Arab/Muslim … it's in the Koran & Hadiths … today's warfare … since we're in the era of TOTAL WAR … has just advanced the timeline … that is, EVERYONE IS IN THE FIRING LINE … just ask the Arab/Muslims who targeted the Twin Towers!!!! tzatz in reply to tzatz You said: "Hope you are getting much more distance from your driver now …" If you played golf you'd know that it's all about 'the short game'! Putting … chipping … lobbing … putting !!! You said: "… Israel in choosing aggession before peace …" Tells me that you do not understand the Arab/Muslim mindset … you should read … Lee Smith: The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations … it would inform you that Arabs respect POWER … and attack those they feel are WEAK … The Arab/Israeli Conflict is the PERFECT example … in May 1948 … the Arab States attacked the nascent Jewish State with the intent of dismantling it … that is, to utterly destroy it!!! The fact that they failed did not dissuade them from attempting again and again keep on trying … 1967 … 1973 … are certainly examples … it is only after the Arab/Muslims respect OUR (that is, Israel's) POWER that they can and will make a deal (Egypt and Jordan) … the recalcitrant states like Syria or the rest of the Arab League continue the belligerence … Hamas and the PA belong to the latter group … they can never be allowed to 'bow' to Israel … except … the PA under Abbas has decided to strategically attempt to remain non-violent but still NOT AGREEING TO A END OF CONFLICT SETTLEMENT THAT WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTABLE TO THE Arab League AND HAMAS … is the belligerent 'bad boy' NEVER ACCEPTING/RECOGNIZING THE JEWISH STATE … The only way forward for Israel is to keep on inflicting as MUCH PAIN AND SUFFERING AS POSSIBLE … on the belligerents in order to bring them to … accepting their fate … that being acceptance of the sovereignty of the Jewish State … it will come with a cost … the blood and treasure of Israelis but as sure as the hair on my face … it will come … Inshallah clujeanul in reply to john4law And what is wrong in being anti-semitic? Is it really wrong or is it politically wrong? It may occur that the way jews do politics, in 10-20 years time (or sooner?) one would have to worship you in the street, passing by. If you have God in your back it doesn't mean you're always right. Latest blog posts - All times are GMT The crisis in Venezuela: Another day, more bodies Americas view March 13th, 16:49 A tribute to Robert Ashley: A perfect life Prospero March 13th, 16:22 Commodities and the economy: Copper bottomed Buttonwood's notebook March 13th, 15:58 Germany's Hoeness trial: Uli goes to jail Charlemagne March 13th, 14:18 El Salvador's election: An extraordinary result Americas view March 13th, 14:13 Products & events	http://www.economist.com/comment/1745942	<urn:uuid:31eb4a28-7c8e-4605-a0a6-a774f9fff8e9>	en	0.958802	0.022809
'Smart Bomb': Inside the Video Game Industry Scene from Tony Hawk's American Wasteland video game. hide captionScene from Tony Hawk's American Wasteland video game. Algonquin Books The video game industry is home to a cast of characters as quirky, rebellious and diverse as the world they create. In her new book, Smart Bomb, author Heather Chaplin provides a behind-the-scenes look at the world of game developers. Heather Chaplin and Aaron Ruby, authors, Smart Bomb Read Chapter 1 from 'Smart Bomb' CliffyB, or Clifford Bleszinski, as his mom would call him, is getting ready to give a seminar called "The Future Looks Bright." It's May 2001 at the Electronic Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles, California, the largest gathering of the video game industry in the world. Like anyone who owns a television, CliffyB is well versed in the importance of reinvention in holding the public eye. He turns before the mirror in the men's room. White suit, white snakeskin shoes, hair bleached white to match. Looking good, he thinks, although, in truth, his arms and legs are gangly under his suit, his chest thin beneath a black shirt and tie, and his hair, capping a somewhat sallow complexion, is more brassy blond than white. Ten years ago, CliffyB was that kid on the school bus who got Coke poured on his head and gum smeared in his hair. Back before he was transformed into a pimp-suit-wearing game designer, Cliffy was an acne-riddled, miserable-at-home, small-town kid, filled with unbridled fury at his low status in life—a feeling that years later left him sympathizing terribly, albeit secretly, with videogame fans Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the iconic misfits who in 1999 shot up their classmates, their cafeteria, and then themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. It still brings tears to Cliffy's eyes to think about it—not only the horror of the kids who lost their lives, but also how deeply, awfully alone Harris and Klebold most have been to do such a thing. Cliffy thinks he knows exactly how they felt. He still refers bitterly to the hysteria that swept the country afterward as "geek profiling." "Yeah, but who has the last laugh now?" Cliffy says about his old high school tormenters. "They're all working at gas stations. And look at me." Arms spread wide in his ill-fitting white suit. Indeed, that was then, and this is now. At twenty-six years old, CliffyB is a nine-year veteran of the industry, lead designer at Epic Games and co-creator with Digital Extremes of the smash success first-person-shooter franchise Unreal. This is the year that sales of videogames in the United States have surpassed movie box-office receipts, a stamp of success the industry believes is its passport to legitimacy. People who haven't thought about videogames since their Space Invaders days more than a decade ago are saying to one another over coffee and the Times: Did you know the videogame industry made $6.35 billion dollars this year? Ads for Sony, Nintendo, Electronic Arts, and Xbox are beginning to creep from cable channels like MTV2, Nickelodeon, and TechTV onto prime-time slots on the networks. Billboards for hit games such as Grand Theft Auto III are vying with movies for space on city street corners. Nongamers around the world are awaking, startled, to the ascendance of a medium about which they know little or nothing. The Electronic Entertainment Expo, or E3 as gamers call it, is the yearly event of the International Digital Software Association, the industry's chief trade group. The gathering was founded in 1995 when videogames got too big to remain an adjunct of the Consumer Electronics Show. E3 is where game publishers, console makers, and related companies show their upcoming wares to retailers and industry press. As CliffyB likes to say, videogames used to be like porn: everyone's got a stack under their bed, but no one admits it. In 2001, however, as young men everywhere are pulling their consoles and games out from under the bed, E3 has come to stand for something much bigger than just a trade show. In 2001, it stands as proof that videogames are here—and aren't going away any time soon. The enormous lobbies and hallways of the Los Angeles Convention Center, where E3 is held, are tiled with wall-sized monitors, banners of all sorts, and constellations of loudspeakers. The noise is deafening, and the bleating and blinking they emit is potentially epilepsy-inducing. Crouched like a spider beneath its web, a full-scale model of the futuristic Lexus from Spielberg's Minority Report guards the escalator to the main convention hall, and a matrix of sixteen or so huge flat-panel screens tease passersby with the images from the videogame of the yet-to-be-released movie. The demos loop over and over, Tom Cruise endlessly fighting off jetpack-wearing attackers. On a wall across the aisle, a digitalized Ewan McGregor is firing up his light saber above a display for a litany of upcoming Star Wars game releases. Though Lucasfilm's digital counterpart LucasArts has been around for more than a decade, in 2001 most movie studios and production houses are just discovering the advantages of tag-teaming their blockbusters with videogames. On the expo floor, the game companies have gone all out. There are fifteen-foot-tall dungeons and faux Grecian temples surrounded by pillars of red billowing silk that give the impression of flames. There's a small skate ramp in the South Hall replete with professional skaters promoting the newest installment of the multimillion-dollar franchises Tony Hawk's Pro Skater and Tony Hawk's Underground. The king himself, Mr. Hawk, occasionally steps out from the VIP section to monitor the proceedings, sporting the goofy smile of a tycoon who at heart remains an enthusiast. When Cliffy gets out of his panel discussion, he chats a bit with reporters and other industry folk outside the meeting room. He bounces on the toes of his snakeskin shoes, excited, as if he can't quite believe he's here himself. Then he heads down to the expo floor. Cliffy lives for videogames. Time spent on the Nintendo Entertainment System, playing with Mario and Donkey Kong, are some of his fondest childhood memories. His preteen years were spent on the PC with Doom and Quake, and then SimCity and the Ultima series. By the time he was a teenager, he was making games of his own on a souped-up PC in his bedroom. Cliffy has never had any formal game-design training—until recently the very idea of formal training in game design would have been considered absurd. Nevertheless, Cliffy's been making games professionally since he was seventeen years old. After sending one of his games in a Ziploc bag to a publisher in California, Cliffy found himself a professional game designer before he had even graduated high school. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, the three console makers of the moment, as well as three of the biggest software publishers in the business, dominate the South and West Convention Halls, respectively. Each company has an inner sanctum, erected the day before, complete with passageways and little rooms where executives take meetings and give interviews over plates of melon and grapes. Like a solar system with a collection of satellites, each company is surrounded by its subsidiaries, divisions, and allies. Cliffy checks out a couple of displays, and soon spots dozens of people he knows—other designers, gaming journalists, fans of his. People know Cliffy because he makes a point of being known. He accepts panel spots, poses for photographs, and even has a Web site called CliffyCam that lets you watch him while he works, or allows you to rifle through a collection of his photographs, including a prominent one of him in a big fuzzy bunny suit. After a few minutes of meeting and greeting, CliffyB turns to a friend with the exhausted but excited look of a congressman just returned from a visit with his constituency. Cliffy explains to a reporter that a rumor has been spreading through the convention center like a virus, growing until the grumbling on the subject has become another layer of noise on the expo floor—a rumor that there's been a moratorium on the Booth Babe. The Booth Babe is a time-honored tradition of E3—to the extent that a tradition less than a generation old can make such a claim—and the Booth Babe issue has everything to do with what videogames have been, and what they're trying to become. Despite the rumored moratorium, Booth Babes appear to be everywhere you look. There's a woman dressed as Lara Croft, the long-legged, gun-toting archaeologist hero of Eidos's Tomb Raider. (Angelina Jolie played her in the movie version of the game.) There are women in tiny pieces of chain mail positioned outside elaborate gothic sets, women wandering the show rooms in pink latex bikinis. A group of them outside the South Hall are tossing Hawaiian leis around the necks of pale young men, cooing "Want to get lei'd?" There would appear to be many, many scantily clad young women, but, apparently, there aren't as many in 2001 as there used to be. And once the rumor takes hold, a dearth of Booth Babes is perceived by one and all, and the judgment of every male queried is that there are not nearly as many as there should be. "Ban the Booth Babe?" you hear in the hallways. "Come on!" People know this is the year the industry is making its big push for the mainstream, and they clearly understand that they aren't to alienate anyone with acts that could be perceived as depraved or immature or in any way foster the general impression of videogame makers as crazed, violent, or immoral freaks. But on the Booth Babe issue, the conventioneers are like dieters looking forward to being thin yet balking at the idea they must disavow pizza. CliffyB, statesmanlike, sums up the general feeling. "Give me a break," he says. "The Booth Babe is an institution. If people don't have a sense of humor, f—- 'em!" The irony is that while it's true Douglas Lowenstein, president of the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA), hardly wants to project an image of pimply faced boys taking Polaroids with chain-mail-clad young women, he's the last one to hear the rumor. To his knowledge there's been no official moratorium on the Booth Babe. He's certainly issued no such edict. Perhaps the vendors are cleaning up their act on their own, he muses. Perhaps it's been entirely imagined, or perhaps it's a fantasy that became a reality once enough people believed it. Amidst the chaos and clamor of the sprawling video¬ game shantytown set up by the corporations on the floor of the convention, it's easy to see how that could happen. Lowenstein is a slender man in his mid-fifties who favors thin polo-neck sweaters tucked into pleated trousers. He's going bald and has a beak nose. Were his posture to worsen, he would somewhat resemble Mr. Burns from The Simpsons. Yet, there's something natty about him—he's polished and professional-looking in a way most people in the videogame industry are not. He shakes Cliffy's hand as they pass in the hall. Lowenstein has his own speech to give. He's a long-time D.C. lobbyist who's had his work cut out for him, trying to transform America's perception of the videogame from that of an artifact of an ailing society to a respectable and fun entertainment product. He's named the 2001 conference "Touch the Future," and, like Cliffy's attempts to vanquish his Coke-wielding demons, he's determined to flip the whole paradigm once and for all. He wants 2001 to be the dawn of a new era. He kicks off E3 with an enthusiastic and statistic-filled address. "Seven years ago," he says, "videogames were played mostly by teenage boys, usually in the basement or the bedroom. No longer. Today, videogames are mainstream entertainment: they're played by people of all ages; they're played by people of all tastes; and they've become as important a part of our culture as television and movies. . . . They're in the center of the home, they're on the Internet, they're in movies, they're in schools, they're on cell phones; they're on PDAs and airplanes; and they're even in medical research labs. In short, videogames are everywhere." He chuckles a little, along with his crowd, when he says, "Of course, politicians are still grumbling about videogame violence." It's as if he and the audience were high schoolers, sniggering at a hopelessly out-of-date teacher tramping the halls with toilet paper trailing from his shoe. Lowenstein is clearly thrilled he finally has the luxury of laughing off angry politicians. The videogame industry has been growing at a rate of 15 percent a year for several years, double the rate of growth for the U.S. economy as a whole during the same time period, and more than double the rate of either the film industry or the computer hardware business. The average age of a gamer has finally exceeded eighteen years—"Please, please, can we put that stereotype to rest once and for all!" Lowenstein mock-pleads. It's predicted that by 2005, videogame consoles will have penetrated 70 percent of all American homes, giving it one of the fastest adoption rates of any consumer appliance in history. The PlayStation 2 alone, for example, made it into 10 million homes its first year on the market, something it took the telephone thirty-five years to accomplish. Ubiquity is what the industry has been after for years, and ubiquity seems to be what it is finally getting. One study, from investment analysts at Deutsche Bank Alex. Brown, has just concluded that the potential market for videogames had grown from 20 million people in 1980 to 96 million in 2001 and is now growing exponentially—106 million people in 2005 and onward, as every baby born takes to the videogame habit. "Fun. That's what this . . . industry is about," Lowenstein says. Then he reads from a May 2001 article by Bob Schwabach for the New York Times: "‘The videogame industry has been on the threshold of seizing dominance in entertainment for several years,'" he quotes. " ‘Ultimately it will. It's inevitable. . . . I don't see any way out of this.'" THE FOLLOWING YEAR, 2002, CliffyB's plans for industry dominance aren't panning out quite as he'd hoped. At E3 2001 he'd been riding high on the recent release and resounding success of Unreal Tournament. But in the spring of 2002 at the International Game Developers Conference, the release of his next title, Unreal 2, is still seven months away, and Cliffy has taken to muttering "you're only as good as your last game." If you didn't know that Cliffy introduced a new look at every industry gathering, you might not recognize him right away at the 2002 Game Developers Conference. This year, CliffyB's hair is brown and brushed into his face 88 la early-ER George Clooney. He's wearing a silky shirt and a stiff black leather jacket; a heavy silver chain lies around his neck. Cliffy is well scrubbed and moussed, like someone from New Jersey going to a Manhattan dance club. He's hanging out by the bar of the Fairmont Hotel in San Jose, California, which serves as the headquarters for the Game Developers Conference. It's March, almost exactly one year after the rumored Booth Babe moratorium, and attendance at the GDC, an event as different from E3 as San Jose is from Hollywood, is strong. E3 may be for the companies, but GDC is for the developers. For an industry on the verge of reaching cultural critical mass, it's hard to imagine that a tight sense of community could be maintained among developers, but Alan Yu, the bald, hip twenty-nine-year-old organizer of the event, is doing his best to make that happen. He has a dream of a videogame community that crosses cultural, geographical, and company lines. He's lured designers from as far away as Japan, Hong Kong, Italy, Scotland, France, and England. E3 may shock and awe with its eye-popping display of the electric sprawl of the videogame industry, but GDC opens a portal into the hearts of those who keep it thriving. Every year, in early March, just before the mad scramble in the months leading up to E3 begins, twelve thousand or so game developers from around the world descend on this four-block stretch of downtown San Jose. They fill up every hotel in the area, every meeting room in the convention center, and every ballroom in the Fairmont Hotel. The hotel's sunken lobby is packed from early in the morning until late at night with designers, programmers, producers, animators, audio engineers, writers, and independent studio CEOs—all the people it takes to put out a modern videogame. They crowd into seminars ranging from programming with geometric computations, to composing interactive music, to managing online societies, to understanding female gamers. There are educators from universities such as Stanford, MIT, and University of Michigan who want to know how to create degrees in game-making and videogame theory. There are business people from wireless companies hot on the trail of multiplayer games that can be played over cell phones. And there are others, like Peter Molyneaux of Lionhead Studios (Black & White and Fable) who are acknowledged masters of this strange universe. GDC is a place where it's possible for the lowest coder to rub elbows with the likes of Will Wright, maker of the most popular PC game of all time, The Sims, or Raph Koster, the visionary leader of the current charge into massively multiplayer online gaming, or even Jonathan "Seamus" Blackley, the man behind the Xbox. The men at GDC—and it is almost exclusively male—are former nuclear physicists, neuroscientists, and linguists; painters, musicians, and illustrators; reformed graffiti artists; professional gamblers; computer scientists who consult with the FBI on the side. BioWare, for example, the Canadian developer known for their hugely successful adaptations of Dungeons & Dragons adventures, was started by a pair of MDs bored with designing biomedical software, who began building games for a challenge. An even older generation exists, of middle-aged men who were playing text-based computer games like Zork and Adventure over the Internet a decade before most people could even access it. And perhaps most prevalent are the kids in oversized hoody sweatshirts, knee-length shorts, and skateboard shoes who have spent their entire lives playing videogames. Essentially the grunts of the industry, these guys—low-level texture artists, game testers, designers without contracts, audio effects hacks, and the like—are simply content to have a job where they can obsess about videogames freely, and an employer who throws them the yearly blowout. Then there are the Japanese. The Japanese didn't invent videogames, nor were they the first to debut a commercial arcade game or home console. Nevertheless, in the thirty short years or so that the videogame industry has existed, the Japanese have become the undisputed champions of the medium. This Japanese dominance of videogames is due first to the crushing success of the Nintendo Entertainment System in the mid-eighties, which effectively disemboweled the struggling American giant Atari and launched what is now considered by many to be the age" of videogaming. During this period companies such as Sega, Namco, and eventually Sony entered the fray so aggressively that by 1990 not a single American firm stood as a major producer of videogame hardware. The dominance of the Japanese is also due in part to the fact that post–World War II Japanese culture was especially friendly to technology-based entertainment. It was also rabid for novelty, and embraced pop culture to a degree unheard of in the United States except among children. In such a cultural climate it was, perhaps, only a matter of time until the dreams of someone like Shigeru Miyamoto (Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros., Legend of Zelda) would find their way in, translated into a near endless stream of 0's and 1's. The current crop of Japanese game developers have much for which to thank Miyamoto-san, as he is reverently referred to, as well as other veterans, like Gran Turismo architect Kazunori Yamauchi, an expert simulation builder who tells a reporter in the lounge of the Fairmont that his greatest goal is to make a simulation of a brain, one that could tell stories to children. Designers like Miyamoto, Yamauchi, and Sonic the Hedgehog creator Yu Suzuki have demonstrated an ingenuity, creativity, and versatility that few American or European designers can match. But while designers like Miyamoto-san are venerated by American game makers, it is perhaps the younger generation of Japanese designers that Americans like CliffyB most want to emulate. Tetsuya Nomura, for example, the character designer behind many of Square Enix's Final Fantasy blockbusters, is thronged by fans when he goes out in Japan—something that has surprised more than one visiting American designer. It's the same for Tetsuya Mizuguchi, whose music-based games Space Channel 5 and Rez have inspired not only a devoted cult audience, but widespread adulation as well. The highlight of the conference—besides the ubiquitous drinking and schmoozing in the Fairmont Lobby—is the Game Developers Choice Awards, held each year in a crumbling palace of a theater across the street from the convention center. Cliffy joins the flow of people from the Fairmont over to the awards show. He's dragging his feet, feeling a bit deflated. He had dinner earlier with his boss at Epic, Jay Wilbur, and found himself saying, somewhat plaintively, "We're going to be making Unreal for the rest of our lives, aren't we?" After all those years spent dreaming of it, Cliffy is just now realizing that videogame success does not guarantee either cultural adulation or creative freedom. Cliffy knows he's not the most groundbreaking game designer in the world. "I'm no Will Wright," he says, "no Sid Meier." Cliffy's talent, as he explains it, is being an adept thief, stealing elements from the games that turned him on as a teenager—Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein 3D. But recent business trips to Japan and Korea have spurred an interest in history and in cultures other than American. Cliffy has started dreaming about a game that's more than a shoot 'em up. He's been fantasizing about a futuristic World War II–style battle game set in outer space. But one of the hallmarks of this new era of mainstream acceptance for videogames is, like in modern-day Hollywood, the rampant reliance on franchises rather than innovation. It's also an era of extreme consolidation among development studios, and Cliffy knows that Epic is lucky to have a steady moneymaker like Unreal on its hands. It's what has allowed the company to stay independent. Cliffy may get to experiment, to make his new game, but it'll depend on how the market holds over the next year, and how well the Unreal franchise does. As Cliffy approaches the theater, he glances at the crowd waiting to get in. It's an interesting-looking crowd, to say the least. There are albinos and men covered in angry red acne. Guys with blow-up plastic dragons on their shoulders, slouchy velvet hats, long ponytails, big fat bellies, tiny concave chests, dandruff on their shoulders, and random piercings. There are grown men wearing top hats and sporting big bushy beards, and women in industry T-shirts worn over ankle-length skirts. There are kids with pink and green hair and hoops through their noses. Girls dressed like anime characters in huge platform boots and spiky hair, and dozens of young men who all seem to be wearing the same oversized, button-down shirts with red and orange flames licking up the bottom. And there are young Japanese men in leather pants and turquoise corduroy, their hair bleached orange, with skinny and chic girlfriends hanging from their arms. The Brits in attendance seem to mostly wear their hair in dreads and swaddle themselves in T-shirts swearing allegiances to different DJs and electronic music labels. Cliffy cuts through the long line outside the award show and goes directly to the VIP door—as a well-known member of the videogame world, he enjoys the same kind of perks every industry affords its stars. Watching him pass are envious young men, hunched over in their hoodies, who probably work as low-level animators or coders. They aren't going to get in to either the show or the business as easily as Cliffy did. The videogame industry is rapidly becoming the kind of place where publishers will no longer take submissions that come in Ziploc bags. Once inside, piled into the plush red movie seats, the gamemakers yell and holler and whoop with enthusiasm that is palpable. They can feel the sea change that's taken place over the last year. They can feel the thickness of the crowd—less than ten years ago, the GDC took place in someone's living room. They notice the extra press coverage this year, the reporters stopping to ask them uninformed questions about making games. They all saw Tony Hawk—a man whose mainstream celebrity is almost entirely a product of the videogame industry—guest star on The Simpsons. In the spring of 2002, Doug Lowenstein's bold new era seems to be well under way. Three new consoles—the PlayStation 2, the Xbox, and the GameCube—have been launched since E3 2001, stirring up excitement with their technical capabilities, new games aimed at an older audience, and billions of dollars spent on marketing. It's still an oddly insular world, however. The average guy getting on stage to give or accept an award is most likely known to every member of the audience. And he's probably dressed as casually as those in the audience, his unshaven face, blemished skin, and bad hair projected on big screens at the side of the stage for all to see. He may get a standing ovation here in San Jose, but drop him in any Midwestern Wal-Mart, which may have just sold 100,000 copies of his game, or place him at a Manhattan cocktail party where the people pride themselves on their cultural literacy, and nobody would know who he was. Event organizer Alan Yu is standing by one of the side-doors, a bottle of beer in his hand. He's wearing a red satin cowboy shirt. "This is great," Alan says. "They're having a good time, huh? I just want these guys to have a good time." Alan scoots away as the contenders for best game of the year are announced. The games up for awards seem to have as much to do with Pong, Missile Command, or Space Invaders as Star Wars does to early cinema classics like Rescued by Rover. The best of today's videogames are imaginative and intelligent. As a medium, they have achieved excellence. This is not to say, however, that every game is good. Much like the early days of the Hollywood studios, videogame publishers churn out a constant stream of product, some made simply to meet demand and others with larger budgets and grander aspirations. The AAA games, as the more elaborate entries are called, take years to make, and cost upward of $5 million. They require tightly coordinated staffs of hundreds, and have at their heads men with computer skills that are the envy of government, banking, medicine, and academia. For example, John Carmack, the programmer behind Doom and Quake, is considered one of the best graphics programmers in the world. Breakthroughs he's made in three-dimensional graphic technology have been used by both the U.S. military, to create training simulations for American troops, and biologists, for 3-D molecular modeling. As the contenders for this year's awards are announced, the crowd screams, red-faced with excitement and fueled by the cups of beer available in the lobby. They're more like sports fans at a title game than award attendees. They're drunk, and happy, and pumped up. The only difference is they don't really care who wins; they loved all the games. There's Munch's Oddysee, the sad tale/adventure game of a one-eyed aquatic creature on the verge of extinction, who must liberate his species, helped by an ex-slave with a pinhead and chronic flatulence named Abe. The game's animation is creative and original, and its story is subversive, at least by main¬stream entertainment standards. Its creator, Lorne Lanning, of Oddworld Inhabitants, is a thirty-seven-year-old former painter and hydraulic amusement-park-ride inventor, who does the character animation and voice acting himself. Lanning is six feet three inches, with recently cut-off long black hair, a pointy goatee, and a Cary Grant–like elegance. Ask him what his religious inclination is; "Jedi," he'll tell you. Ico is a fairy-tale adventure game rendered in surreal pools of light and shadow. The game's heavily stylized imagery is a stunning example of what the next generation of game makers, with next-generation technology behind them, are accomplishing. Ico is the brainchild of Fumito Ueda, a slim, thirty-three-year-old former visual artist from Japan who dresses like a preppy American and slouches like James Dean. Ico is the first game Ueda ever made, and it is hauntingly beautiful and well crafted, both in design and gameplay. Jak & Daxter is from a Santa Monica–based studio called Naughty Dog, and it is Disney-esque in its use of anthropomorphized animals chasing each other with mallets while running through stylized cartoon landscapes. Jason Rubin, one of the company's founders, is known for having cashed in, along with Andy Gavin, his partner since Hebrew School days, on the rise of the videogame. Sony bought their company in 2001 for a reported seven figures. Rubin drives a quarter-million-dollar Ferrari; Gavin collects ancient Egyptian artifacts. And then there's Grand Theft Auto III. The title, from a keep-to-themselves group called Rockstar Games, caught the attention of everyone from TV commentator Ted Koppel to the 12 million people who shelled out fifty bucks for a copy. What gamers loved about GTA III even more than the car-jackings and prostitute power-ups was the enormous possibilities the game provided. The game issued players a movielike world of urban mobsters and petty crooks, but the player called the action. If players didn't want to follow the plot line that runs through the game, they could cruise the city and decide whether they felt like stealing virtual cars and beating up virtual cops, or driving a virtual ambulance to save virtual pedestrians. Not surprisingly, many people, both inside the industry and out, found the content of the game offensive. Ted Koppel was one of them. But ask anyone in that auditorium, and they'll tell you that it wasn't the cop bashing in particular they liked. It was the sense of existing in an alternate universe, surrounded by opportunities to act, and being able to feel the effects of those actions as they played. This freedom simply thrilled them. When Grand Theft Auto III is announced as the Game of the Year, there is wild enthusiasm from the stands—people screaming, whistling, chanting, stomping their feet. Geronimo, one of the grand poobahs of Rockstar Games, takes to the stage, his portly frame packed into a double-breasted zoot suit. He waves the award high over his head. People clap and cheer even louder. Geronimo moves to the microphone and says, "This is to show that videogames don't have to be about hobgoblins and dwarves!" The crowd is silent, unsure about this last bit of heresy. But then they erupt into applause all over again. They can't help it. It was a great game. And if there's one thing the people in this decaying auditorium do care about, it's great games. By midnight, Alan Yu's post-awards party is in full swing. Winners from the night and others in the know take the Fairmont elevator to the top floor, walk down two hallways to a set of double doors with a plaque beside it engraved with the words Ffairmont suite. Tall and elegant, Lorne Lanning opens the door, drink in hand, relaxed among his peers. There's a fully stocked bar on the left, a marble bathroom to the right. In the main room, Alan is running back and forth seeing to his guests. There are six couches, a grand piano, a view of the San Jose skyline, several small trees, and two bedrooms off to the side. Word at the party has it that the Mexican ambassador to the U.S. has been displaced to another suite on the floor below in order to accommodate Alan and his gathering. By two a.m., Alan has given up trying to keep the party exclusive, and the place is packed. Cliffy is there, lurking by the doorway between the foyer and the living room. He's clearly tense, which for Cliffy means holding his shoulders high and his lips tight, much like a boxer waiting for the next punch. He fills out his shirt more than he did last year. Indeed, it's apparent he's been working out, lifting weights as part of his path to full CliffyB-dom. He's chugging on a bottle of beer, eyes on a poker table across the room. At the poker table are a group of guys about his age who also have best-selling games under their belts, guys like Jason Rubin of Naughty Dog, who tend to hang out at industry gatherings, forever getting in touch with one another through tiny cell phones. Each has Ferraris, Porsches, or Ducatti motorcycles waiting for them back home. Cliffy himself recently purchased a $100,000 2002 Viper, and he drives it around North Carolina, where Epic is based, thinking that surely he is the coolest guy in town. Still, next to these guys, he feels like the little brother, the tagalong, as they swap stories of bagging PR women in their hotel rooms and partying till dawn at Las Vegas strip clubs. How can you be a sexy rock-star game developer when you've been married to your high school sweetheart since you were twenty-five? Likewise, Cliffy claims he's never taken an illegal substance in his life, although he does drop the occasional comment about "fatties" to keep people off his trail. Like the savviest of marketers, Cliffy knows that image trumps reality every time. In reality, this party really isn't his thing. He'd far rather be down in the Fairmont lobby, buying drinks for the lower-level programmers from Epic, guys who aren't welcome at Alan Yu's party, but around whom he feels genuinely comfortable. But if he did that, people might get the wrong idea—think he wasn't welcome. So he's staying, legs planted firmly, teeth set like a pit bull's, holding his ground in this little corner. There aren't supposed to be any working press at Alan's party, but by three a.m., their presence is undeniable. One cable TV host is staggering drunkenly around the edges of the poker table, much to the players' annoyance. It's a touchy subject, because last year P. J. Huffstutter, a reporter for the L.A. Times, filed a story that included a scene from the Fairmont Suite party that had Lorne Lanning passing a pipe filled with marijuana to the Xbox's Ed Fries. It's an understatement to say that these guys are touchy about their reputations. The games they've created have been denounced for violent content, and they've been vilified in virtually every newspaper, magazine, and living room in the country, criticized for their marketing practices and held up as a symbol of everything that is wrong with modern society. So it is no wonder that being pegged as a group of potheads frightened them. Yet it was a stance that drove Montreal game journalist J. F. William to curse in both French and English. Williams is fortyish, and he can be found stalking industry gatherings dressed all in black, including black sunglasses and a black hat that hangs over long black hair and is held in place by a black cord cinched under his chin. "They need MORE of a rock 'n' roll attitude," he says, or, actually, shouts. "They should have thanked that reporter! Kowtowing to claims of bad behavior!? Do you know what the response to these things should be? These people should say ‘F—- you! Here we are, we rule, and, and, and—F—- Y—!'" IT'S ONE YEAR LATER, February 2003, and CliffyB is pulling on a stogie at a bar in the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. He's handing the cigar to any girl who wants to take a puff, and he's putting an arm around anyone who gets close enough. He's surrounded by media, mostly guys from G4, a new cable TV station devoted entirely to videogames. They want to provide him with a limousine and follow him around as he paints the town. Portrait of game maker as rock star is the idea, and Cliffy is only too happy to oblige. Cliffy's look for 2003 is grunged-out rocker—dyed red hair made sticky by hair product, raggedy fake-fur-trimmed coat that hangs almost to his knees, and orange-tinted sunglasses. Bicep muscles show beneath his T-shirt, his skin is now flawless, and his eyes shine with enthusiasm. It's the first night of the Academy of Interactive Arts and Science's (AIAS) third annual industry summit. As the dawn of this new era has brightened into full daylight, the industry is beginning to take on all the trappings associated with the entertainment business. The AIAS wants its summit—called DICE in this acronym-happy world—to be like the Game Developers Conference, but it aims to cater only to the upper- most echelons of the business. Instead of ten or so thousand attendees, DICE is host to a couple of hundred. It's even started its own awards show, in a competitive move that has Alan Yu less than pleased. As CliffyB holds court at the bar, the honchos of the industry, from publishing bigwigs to top-league developers, are flying in from around the world to attend seminars, receive awards, schmooze, and give fifteen-minute interviews in press suites. Cliffy makes his way around to the other side of the bar to join Ed Fries, one of few men who can actually green-light projects for Microsoft's Xbox. Cliffy's latest game, Unreal Tournament 2003, has finally come out, selling nearly one million copies worldwide. Ed Fries is older and far more mellow in character than Cliffy. In fact, his life as a videogame bigwig is a second career. After more than a decade with Microsoft as a programmer and project manager, Ed could easily have retired. But when the Xbox project came up, he couldn't resist. Ed may favor polo shirts over fake fur and prefer writing poetry to collecting fancy cars, but he loves videogames with the same enthusiasm as Cliffy. "Videogames are already an alternate place to live," Ed says. "People live alternative lives in these worlds. They become their characters. That's already happening, the rest is just technology. The rest is just how real will it look? Will I stare at a screen? Wear something around my head? Goggles that are really high-resolution monitors? What's state-of-the-art in movies today should be possible in games thirty years from now—worst-case scenario. And the best-case scenario is a whole lot better than that." Like Cliffy, of whom he's fond, Ed turns a deaf ear to the controversy that has swirled around videogames since people first claimed in the 1990s that Nintendo was stealing the minds of their children. Ed talks about making players feel free, which, he says "is what videogames are all about." According to Ed, videogames are about having experiences that aren't, or don't feel, earthbound. The fact that people pay about fifty bucks a pop for each shot of freedom—not including the hundreds spent on hardware and peripherals to enhance the experience—doesn't come up too often. As Cliffy taps Ed on the shoulder, he's bouncing on his toes, an arm half around—and half holding back—a drunk and giggling PR woman. His eyes glint through his orange shades. "Going to make me the Halo of the Xbox 2," Cliffy says, newly expanded chest puffed out to full size. It's an audacious claim. Halo is the Xbox's biggest hit, the console's premier title since its release—and it's thought by many to be one of the best videogames ever made. But Cliffy is riding high, too. Not only has Unreal Tournament 2003 met with resounding success, but also CliffyB has finally emerged as a full-fledged living character. His Web site has been redone by a professional Web designer, the bunny-suit picture exchanged for one of him in a white wife-beater looking knowingly into the camera. He's been featured in Men's Journal and Entertainment Weekly, looking, to quote Cliffy himself, "gooood." And Epic has hired a programmer to head a subsidiary that will continue to spin out Unreal titles—leaving CliffyB free, at last, to work on that World War II outer-space epic of which he's been dreaming. If Ed will take it as the premier game for the Xbox 2, Cliffy will switch from PC gamer to console-lover faster than he can change his hair color. "I might give you that chance," Ed says. And then, to an eavesdropping reporter: "You didn't hear this." Ed sounds cool, faintly bemused, but then he smiles. Cliffy lets out a celebratory woop. The next day, in a hallway overlooking the Hard Rock's complex of faux cascading waterfalls and chemically induced aqua-blue pools, a few hundred men and a hanflul of women are mingling in between DICE seminars. Cliffy is wearing a black Kangol bucket hat low over his forehead so that he has to tilt his neck back and look down the bridge of his nose in order to see. Just arriving from Austin, Texas, are industry veterans Raph Koster and Rich Vogel, the maestros of videogame virtual reality. "Virtual reality is just what people call technology they haven't mastered yet," says Vogel, who is white as porcelain and has pointy ears like a Vulcan. Raph is a short, plump man with thick glasses and the kind of supercilious smirk sometimes adopted by people who got their asses kicked a lot when they were kids. Will Wright is smoking outside on the Hard Rock's sidewalk, as Raph and Rich pass through. Will's company, Maxis, has just released a massively multiplayer version of The Sims called The Sims Online, which launched to unprecedented mainstream media coverage, including Newsweek and the New York Times Magazine. Will's going to be speaking on a panel about massively multiplayer games with Raph and Rich, but he'd much rather talk about a new game he's been working on, which, he says, is a simulation of "all of life." Seamus Blackley is standing by the glass doors of the Hard Rock accompanied by his brand-new baby of one year and his wife of eight months, Vanessa "Van" Burnham, a former game journalist. Seamus left Microsoft, turning his back on the Xbox shortly after last year's party in the Fairmont Suite, and he's full of fire about starting a new development company to make games the right way. Alan Yu admires the baby. Cliffy comes by to say, "Wow, no way," and ruminate as to whether he'll ever be ready to be a father. It's still early, and people are drinking miniature Cokes and coffee out of little plastic cups with handles. Although most of the action at DICE takes place in the hallways, nearly everyone crowds into the auditorium to hear Yu Suzuki and the reclusive Shigeru Miyamoto talk about their lives as video¬ game makers. While dogging Nintendo has become an indoor sport for industry folk in recent years, no one ever says a bad word about Miyamoto-san. Bad-mouthing Miyamoto-san would be like saying Homer didn't know how to tell a good story. You just wouldn't do it. Lt. Colonel Casey Wardynski from West Point shows up, accompanied by Mike Zyda, his academic partner on the first-person shooter cum military recruitment tool, The Official U.S. Army Game: America's Army. Wardynski and Zyda are here to give a presentation called "Weapons of Mass Distraction—America's Army Recruits for the Real World." All of the game's stunning 3-D graphics are driven by a proprietary engine originally created by Epic Games to power the Unreal franchise. Doug Lowenstein, seated in the front row, gets up to tell an anecdote about the bust-up of a Brazilian crime syndicate that had bootlegged the game for training purposes of its own. He gets a good laugh. At eight p.m., all the gamemakers pour into one of the Hard Rock's bigger venues, the Joint. Big cameras scan the room, and microphones sweep overhead. The place is packed. Free dinner. Open bar. Word has been passing mouth to mouth to "dress as if you were going to a club." The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences has been trying to get the show televised since DICE's inception. Now, thanks to the new videogame cable channel G4—as desperate for material as the AIAS is for coverage—the wish has been granted. Not only is G4 there, along with the usual barrage of industry press, but also in attendance is a reporter from Entertainment Weekly who has finally convinced his superiors that videogames are worth covering. There's even a crew from PBS doing a documentary on the life of game developers. All the PR people from all the companies are pleased, as are the presenters and potential award recipients. Even the few plebes in the audience are psyched—nothing creates excitement in a crowd like being recorded. Backstage, the green room is filled with platters of vegetables, dips, cookies, third-tier actors, and extreme-sports heroes. Tony Hawk is politely talking into the tape recorder of the Entertainment Weekly reporter while his Electronics Arts PR girl shifts her weight on kitten heels and looks bored. Actresses with recurring roles on the FX Network and WB shows are plumping their cleavage and exchanging secrets on maintaining skin tones. Much to the delight of the videogame makers, Nina Kaczorowski, who boasts a small role in Austin Powers in Goldmember, is wearing a red dress that is slashed in the front down to her navel and completely bare in the back. ("Yea, I threw in a few Babes," Josh, the event's talent coordinator, says modestly.) By some act of god, CliffyB gets to present with Ms. Kaczorowski. He saunters onto the stage, her hand on his arm, grinning widely. When they reach the podium, Cliffy can't help himself. He starts cracking up, laughing uncontrollably at his proximity to the starlet. Then he, and the rest of the audience together just start clapping and clapping and clapping. Blue Man Group is there, too, running around the back halls, wearing their trademark intensely blue face paint. Cliffy complains they're freaking him out. Miyamoto-san, who is presenting an award, is being rushed back and forth, down the narrow hallways, with his usual swarm of interpreter, assistant, and PR women. Vince Neil of M9Atley Cr9Fe is there to present an award. He's dressed in a shiny gray suit, and his trademark scraggly blond hair is still scraggly and blond, though his face has wizened. A newly hired G4 anchorperson is being positioned on a balcony overlooking the stage to give his blow-by-blow commentary. Ed Fries is standing around backstage looking awkward and embarrassed. Will Wright, who wins for best massively multiplayer online game for The Sims Online—for which he didn't know he was nominated—is being rushed down a back staircase to accept his award. "I really don't deserve this," he is saying on the way to the stage. On the elevator down, Mrs. Vince Neil assures her husband his teeth looked "incredibly white" from the audience. After the show, everyone—all the presenters and PR people and everybody else in proximity—gather in a tiny room with no ventilation to puff on expensive cigars and drink out of plastic cups. Dave Foley of Kids in the Hall and News Radio, who was the MC for the night, is walking around the room, his tie undone, announcing "Let the drinking begin!" The industry folk ogle the so-called celebrities, and the celebrities rejoice in being treated like actual stars for the evening. Then a group led by industry veteran Brian Fargo, an old-timer dressed in a Hawaiian print shirt, and Naughty Dog's Jason Rubin pile into taxis and head over to the Bellagio, to an exclusive club called Light. Of course CliffyB is part of the posse, wearing his Kangol hat and a wife-beater T-shirt like the one from his Web site photo, which shows off his newly developed biceps. "She's actually a really nice girl," he says of Ms. Kaczorowski. "She has kids, too! Can you imagine, with that bod?" The group strides through the Bellagio, with its yellow-and-blue French Riviera–themed casino, and into the dark red mouth of Light. They take an escalator circled with mirrors and rise up, emerging into the club. Cliffy's got his hat pulled down low, his head tilted back, and he seems to be getting friendly with a thin young woman, an industry producer. Brian Fargo ushers everyone into a semi-enclosed plush red banquette and begins ordering $350 bottles of vodka and any fruit juice or mixer that anyone can shout out. A diminutive English fellow named Kos, dressed in a crisp white shirt and sporting a black pompadour, shimmies on the dance floor—clearly delighted to be acting as Hollywood action hero Vin Diesel's personal emissary to the world of videogames. Cliffy joins Kos on the dance floor. He grinds hips with the young woman, who is now wearing his hat. From the outside, it seems time for an intervention. But in reality, Cliffy is getting that feeling he still sometimes gets: just when he should be feeling like the biggest kid on the block, he feels like the smallest. Surely this should be the peak of his CliffyB-dom so far—his stars obviously aligned by the selection of Kaczorowski as his presentation partner, not to mention the nod from Ed Fries. Surely none of those gas-station-working, Coke-pouring tormenters of his youth have ever had a weekend like this. Yet it feels nightmarish here on the flashing, noisy dance floor. Cliffy clearly wants to stay. He wants to experience his own apex. But it's the culmination of so many years of dreaming that Cliffy can't quite shake the feeling that he's still asleep. He mentions that it feels kind of like being a zombie. Finally Cliffy splits, leaving his hat with his dance partner—he doesn't even want it back the next day—and heads down the escalator, and back out onto the Bellagio casino floor. The eternally shining casino lights are bright, the music is blaring, the machines are clinking, and the players are throwing money down on the tables. Alone, Cliffy catches a taxi and is in bed by two a.m. In the morning, he's not sure what was the dream and what was the waking. Subsequently, Cliffy will only tell a few people that he didn't actually have a good time at the Bellagio. In fact, the whole night will eventually be transformed, assuming the place of treasured memory in his mind. It was, after all, the culmination of all his dreams: acclaim, glamour, wealth, girls, muscles, publicity, good skin. If only he could escape the queasy feeling of being trapped on the edge of a dream state. And so the videogame industry moves forward. Books Featured In This Story by Heather Chaplin and Aaron Ruby Hardcover, 287 pages \| purchase Purchase Featured Books • Smartbomb • The Quest for Art, Entertainment, and Big Bucks in the Videogame Revolution • Heather Chaplin and Aaron Ruby Support comes from:	http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5011925	<urn:uuid:35c9b050-b853-4c52-8239-6f1dace98068>	en	0.971999	0.037107
Morgan's mystery: What happened outside arena? The time information came October 21 before a phalanx of reporters at a press conference held at UVA Police headquarters by Lieutenant Joe Rader of the Virginia State Police, who also announced the then imminent reward fund and a new telephone line for anyone with tips about the blonde-haired, blue-eyed child of Dan and Jill Harrington. "We have a purse, and we have a cell phone– we have a missing girl," says Rader. "Those are the facts." Rader attempted to dispel concerns that the missing 20-year-old was under the influence of any substances but did confirm that Harrington merely intended to go to the bathroom when she found herself outside the Arena and, consequently, barred from reentry by Arena policy. news-missingtechstudentharrington2"She did call her friends when she got outside the Arena," says Rader, "and advised them because of the policy that she would not be coming back into the Arena and would find a way to get either up with them or to get home." And that, says interested citizen Steve Burger, who watched the press conference online, is why he emailed police and suggested they interview roadies and members of the two "death metal" opening bands, Richmond-based Lamb of God and France-based Gojira. Burger, a freelance journalist who has interviewed convicted killer Jens Soering, observes that Harrington reportedly kept her Metallica tickets on her refrigerator for six months and debuted her concert outfit for her mother. "I'm sure there must be a good reason for the policy of not readmitting people," says father Dan Harrington, who says his daughter likes all kinds of music, "but it certainly seems strange to me." Venue manager Larry Wilson says that the no-reentry policy is "standard operating procedure for every facility I know of in the country" and points out that the Arena offers many bathrooms, concession stands, and even a smoking zone. He says door personnel are instructed to warn anyone attempting to leave during the show about the no-reentry policy. Burger contends that while the Arena's front door personnel present a steep obstacle by blocking reentry, getting past roadies and security at a service entrance might be easier for "a beautiful girl like that in a black mini-skirt." Burger drew no such link, but the so-called "Farmville murders" took place last month in another college town after a high school girl, who met a rapper at a horrorcore music festival, invited him to visit her family. Lieutenant Rader seemed prepared to deal with this line of thinking, and he conceded that, despite the phone contact between Harrington and the two friends with whom she arrived, there was no arrangement for a post-concert meet-up. Rader also confirmed– in a stunning parallel to the 1986 disappearance of never-found UVA student Pat Collins– that the Sunday morning discovery of Harrington's purse by a bystander in a small parking area didn't immediately launch a criminal investigation. The officer seemed to confirm that the young woman's cell phone was recovered without its battery but downplayed any significance. He also said that various jurisdictions offered officers–- on foot, with canines, and overhead in a helicopter–- to spend a third day Wednesday examining the area around the UVA athletic fields and the Arena. news-missing-morganDanaHarrington-parkingLotPolice haven't said where the young woman's purse was found, but this lot on Copeley/Alderman Road matches the description. PHOTO BY HAWES SPENCER "Today, we have concluded what we believe has been an appropriate time spent on a localized ground search," said Rader. "We don't know if she is alive or if she has met some kind of ill fate." He said about 100 tips have come in–- including several reported sightings at impossibly concurrent sites across the country. Morgan's father is no stranger to Charlottesville, having served on the UVA medical center faculty and sent his other child, a young man recently graduated, to UVA. Mr. Harrington says he hopes the $50,000 reward will draw more tips. He says that Morgan left her car and its keys in Harrisonburg, where she and her roommate from Blacksburg, Amy Melvin, met up with a friend who drove so they could all arrive together. "If anyone saw anything strange along Copeley or along Ivy Road," says Harrington, now vice-president for academic affairs for Carilion Clinic, "anything would be welcome." –>>October 21 press conference audio (28:01) –last updated 6:34pm, November 2 (corrects method Burger used to contact police, corrects internal contradiction about number of children in Harrington family, adds photo of possible parking area, adds detail from interview with Wilson on policies, and adds cell phone detail, father's note about car and keys, corrects year of Pat Collins disappearance, adds full audio of press conference, and adds new reward amount.) Read more on: Morgan Harrington Maybe UVA needs to rethink being part of the entertainment industry ? Never, Never, Never has it been said that she drove her car. Her car was not here. She rode with friends. Let's not jump to conclusions here, it's not known whether she knew she couldn't get back in, and it's not clear that she tried to get back in. I detect a covert PR campaign already starting that intends to exonerate JPJ from any culpability. People suggesting that their no re-entry policy is to prevent people from consuming alcohol or drugs in the parking lot is pure bunk. We all know that it is so that concessions can sell more overpriced junk food. Everyone knows that the thing to do is to consume alcohol outside the show and then enter. For that matter, smuggle in a flask. They pretend to search people, but they really don't. That's because they are not concerned about security, they're concerned about their filthy dirty money. As for the problem of re-screening those who re-enter (in the name of security), big deal. The staff screens 16000 people very efficiently when they enter, and they can easily do it again when people re-enter. I know that all the post-9/11 hysteria is their cover for this ridiculous policy, but that's bull and everyone knows it. Unfortunately, this horribly scary situation may finally turn mumbles into roars. Concert arenas need to stop treating their patrons like jerks. Every time I go to a concert I am constantly harassed by overzealous, officious jerks in yellow shirts. "Sorry, sir, no photos." The idiots that they hired for U2 stood around cracking their knuckles and flexing their muscles just spoiling for the opportunity to exert their authority. Screw off. I can imagine what it was like when the poor girl tried to re-enter. Some fat ass in a yellow shirt. Do you realize how cold it was that night? We won't take it anymore, and we will demand change. Please have some consideration for the family. Morgan is a lovely girl-she has her whole life ahead of her. Her safety is the issue not the reentry policy. The family is not giving into the blame game. Let's just get her back. I'm confused. Which in my case seems to be normal with so many people saying so many different things. Back when Morgan was first reported missing, wasn't there a press release that she had become somewhat ill and had gone outside to get some fresh air???? The John Paul Jones staff then would NOT let her back in??? shempdaddy, you bring up a valid point. Sure they don't want security issues on the parking lot. And I can tell you why! One of the things that bothers me about the John Paul Jones arena, and I have noticed it on numerous occasions.... the cops are present outside while getting traffic in and out during events. Once an event starts they all seem to simply disappear from sight outside. Where do they go? They're getting paid for the entire 6, 7 or 8 hours. Do they go inside and watch the event? Do they become extra security inside during the event? While I wasn't near JPJ on this evening, I can only imagine Morgan was on her own once she found herself outside and banned from going back in. This event put the icing on the cake with a long running argument between my 17 year old daughter and myself. She will NOT be attending any more concerts with her "friends". She will have adult supervision in the future, no exceptions whatsoever. This is ridiculous! I hope this girl is okay, but you all arguing isn't helping. JPJ's policy of not allowing people in is THE BEST OPTION. I know for football games/basketball games/dmb concerts..people would go out..get hammered and come back in.. That's not right you people are looking to place blame? how sad. the only potential person(s) to blame is the the whacko who is still walkiing around...maybe in your neighborhood. wrong choices were made by this lady however the blame lies with the nut job involved. JPJ policy has nothing to do with this as restricting as it is. they never chase people from the front where the security is. DP, people don't like the policy because of what happened to this young woman as a result of the policy. yes, this woman is to "blame" for getting stuck out side. However, the complaints regarding the policy have to do with the fact that once she went out side, she fell victim to foul play and was not allowed back into the safety of the arena. copied this off the web tonight: One U.Va graduate who was the concert tells News 7 he remembers seeing Morgan before the concert in the parking lot. "It was definitely her, I'm 100 percent certain of that," says Dave Gardner. Gardner is a 2005 U.Va grad who now works in New Jersey and came back to Charlottesville to see Metallica. "She pulled up with her party and got out of her parties car and kind of immediately engaged me and my brother and my cousin and my friend who were at the concert," says Gardner. "She did seem excited to see Metallica because she asked us who the opening act was and when we told her, she said 'Who cares, we're here to see Metallica, right?'," said Gardner when News7 talked to him by phone. Gardner says Harrington was anxious to get into the arena. "It was clear to us she wanted to get in there and no one else was in a big hurry and it was frustrating for her," says Gardner. "They weren't really tailgating. There was no evidence of drinking." Gardner says Harrington only spoke to his group for a few minutes before heading toward the arena, but he says he remembers seeing the car after the concert without Morgan. "There were definitely just three people in the car." Gardner did not think much about it until "My Dad emailed me and said, did you hear someone vanished at the concert and I, you know, I got online, out of curiosity and a chill just ran straight down my spine when I saw the picture," says Gardner. Confirm that she was informed she couldn't re-enter. Find the employee who informed her that she couldn't re-enter. Is there camera footage? Other than that I will agree with other posters that it's common to not allow re-entry, and I can see why they have that policy. It would become a big safety and logistical problem to have 10,000 people wandering in and out of the building at will. To the author's idea about interviewing roadies -- picked up this tidbit on Wikipedia: "On Metallica's off days, Gojira will headline shows with Burst and Zoroaster supporting." Where are those gigs? Interview those bands, too. Do metalheads ever say "screw it" and hop on tour? If someone has bought a ticket than they have reserved the right to enter and exit. I think that JPJ's policy is wrong and should be changed. I will consider this rule when I buy tickets for any event there again. The girls parents must feel awful. This death could have been prevented by allowing the girl back in. This is very sad. Idiotic! What if someone left a breathing nebulizer in the car? What if someone forgot a cell phone? I have been in JPJ for events and easliy got lost from others I have been with and needed my phone to make a call Are you telling me that the policy is to kick them out and not let them back in? After one has paid? STUPID! "Curious why no mention of the fact that her cell phones battery had been removed from the cell phone”Š" well then Jimi, you have some explaining to do about how you know that don't you so if she is found and she planned this like the "runaway bride". Who's responsible for cost of all the hours spent searching for her? Nobody has said 10,000 people should be allowed to come and go as they please. But if a person has a legitimate medical reason to step outside, there should be an exemption of some type. Suppose a person with severe asthmatic bronchitis has discovered they have left their inhaler in their vehicle. The $259 ticket they bought and paid for suddenly becomes null and void because they need to retrieve their medication quickly? There's very few reasons a person would need to enter and exit. But there's also legitimate reasons as well. On a somewhat related note, I sure hate the thoughts of leaving any of my vehicles parked up there if a 20 year old girl can disappear and nobody saw a dayum thing! It is just so sad that you all would try to blame jpj's policy that is trying to keep us safe for this. The only person at fault for this is whoever took her. The policy is in place for many reasons which you are all looking over, because yes a girl was taken. One of you above stated that she got into a bad situation and then tried to reenter, but was not allowed admission. That is not correct however, she tried to get admission and then after was taken or whatever happened to her. She mad a bad decision to not stay in the light of the arena by the glass doors, where she could be seen if anything happened to her. She was the one who walked away from safety so it is not at the fault of jpj. It is also not her fault however, because she could have never known that someone was going to take her and or kill her. It is a tragic situation, but throwing around the blame game gets you nowhere. In fact, you are just spamming up these boards and not contributing at all to solving this case. It is very sad and scary, but policies are in place for a reason. She should not have stepped away from safety, and i can guarantee you that if she was in any kind of danger and she alerted the people inside, they would have called the cops. They would not sit there and watch her die, of course not. They are not at fault in any way, they were simply doing their job. This girl just made some bad decisions and were all very confused about what has happened to her. Instead of playing the blame game though, why don't you focus all this energy on trying to actually help the case. Obviously everyone should be hoping for her safety, which is what I would have guessed the comment section would be focused on. I'm incredibly surprised to see so much blame passed on to UVA, JPJ, stadium policies, students drinking, etc. What happened to her appears to be a horrific incident, if not crime. However, none of the aforementioned things contributed directly to her disappearance. The amount of anger and protest directed at JPJ is unwarranted. Stadiums that have strict no reentry policies: Fenway Park, Yankees Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, United Center, Lane Stadium at Virginia Tech, Cameron Indoor Stadium at Duke, and the list could go on and on and on. There are legitimate reasons for this policy and they are ubiquitous among large sports venues. JPJ/Charlottesville is not some barbaric anomaly, nor is it a small, intimate music venue that might more easily handle reentry. Several people have posed "what if" scenarios, such as medical emergencies or legitimate reasons to leave and come back. Fine points, but they are irrelevant to the situation at hand. She left, allegedly, looking for a bathroom. Why aren't people up in arms about the lack of signs pointing to the nearest bathroom in the halls (I won't get in to, other than mentioning, how it is nearly impossible to leave the stadium, mistaking the exit door for a route to a bathroom, unless one is seriously altered)? JPJ is not at fault for what happened to the young woman. Might the policy have something to do with what happened? Yes, unfortunately it could have contributed and that is terrible and maybe it should be rethought or altered. However, the policy is obviously not in place to make money at the risk of people being abducted. Not every problem can be traced back to the "corporate" mongrels who are just greedily trying to make a buck. Now is not the time to deliver impassioned assaults against the venue, school or town. There is a missing girl. Why aren't people focusing on the events as they played out, expressing anger at the person(s) who carried out this heinous act (if it was in fact a crime), questioning why she'd find another ride home when it was her car they drove and simply expressing condolences and hope to the family? I realize it’s hypocritical of me to contribute to the policy debate while also condemning it, but I am hoping this will change the direction of further discussion. if she was outside the JPJ, it was due to her own free will. The JPJ has no role in how she got out there. Was she ever in the JPJ, that is a very interesting question? I still hope for a positive outcome i read somewhere, cant remember where, that there was a story out there that she fell, hit her head, appeared disoriented and then walked towards a highway? anyone hear that one? Yes, Bill. It is hypocritical of you to contribute to the policy debate while also condemning said policy debate.... the ole "don't do as I do, do as I suggest" routine..... and I doubt if it will change the direction of further discussion. Whatever has happened to this young girl, the John Paul Jones arena entry policy shares in the blame, IMHO! This is weird timing.... but Channel 29 reports... "Three Charlottesville police officers were treated for smoke inhalation at the scene, a fourth with bad asthma, was taken to the hospital for treatment." Now suppose this cop was off duty and has taken his wife (or girlfriend) to the John Paul Jones arena for a concert. And suppose he suddenly needs an inhaler for his asthma that he has left in his car by mistake. Or perhaps he left it in his car because he felt he wouldn't need it? Are we to believe that the John Paul Jones arena would not allow him, his wife or his girlfriend to exit, go to the car to retrieve the medication, and then return inside? Would the $259 ticket be null and void because the off duty cop has somewhat of a medical emergency and needs to go to his/her car for a minute? How to identify attendees that need to temporarily leave a venue for any reason? Bar coded wristbands. No big trick there. Can't be moved from one person to another. Could be used to track times and entrances used. Add another buck to the tickets to cover the cost, cheapskates. I become more and more amazed at people's blind acceptance to bad policy as this thread continues This is outrageous said "In fact, you are just spamming up these boards and not contributing at all to solving this case. It is very sad and scary, but policies are in place for a reason." I kept waiting for that reason, but it never came.. Then Bill Said Ok Bill what are these legitimate reasons? They never came. The fact remains that Ms Harrington was denied re-entry: She did call her friends when she got outside the Arena,” says Rader, Ã¢â?¬Å?and advised them because of the policy that she would not be coming back into the Arena and would find a way to get either up with them or to get home.” This is the point where the policy was in error and places at least partial blame on JPJ because her friends should have been encouraged to come meet her, or she should have been let in Venue manager Larry Wilson says that the no-reentry policy is Ã¢â?¬Å?standard operating procedure for every facility I know of in the country”. Quite simply, This is a flat out aggressively defensive lie. I researched this claim and JPJ is in the minority, nationally. but even so Why does Charlottesville's JPJ choose to align itself with bad policy around the country? We should be a leader in advanced thinking not merely a blind follower to freedom eroding policy, that through cause and effect has greatly contributed to the disappearance of a young girl. Please don't continue to defend the indefensible. This reminds me of the adage that I think was attributed to the C.I.A. " When in doubt, Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations and demand to see the evidence!" DF I was looking for the valid reasons for a no re-entry policy not just self serving reasons. I don't agree that not allowing re-entry increases safety. In Fact, in light of recent developments I find the opposite to be true. If alcohol abuse is a reason. I would counter that the venue would like to control and especially profit from said abuse. So again not a valid reason. The same could be said of food I seem to remember a few years ago that the airlines had a "policy" that allowed passengers to be held against their will on the tarmac of a runway for an indefinite period of time while the plane awaited clearance for departure. This led to passenger egregious abuse, cry for change and ultimately a travelers Bill of Rights. But hey, this is policy right? everybody's doing it right? Clearly this was an abuse of policy and so was changed. Granted it took Government intervention but a miscalculated policy was changed all the same. I will have to review what 15000+ venues allow re-entry. but again I say , Just because everyone else has a flawed policy does not mean an enlightened community has to follow suit.And that although we are far from enlightened in Charlottesville, we could certainly take a step in the right direction by correcting what is to say the very least a "flawed policy". Instead we cling steadfastly and diligently to broken excuses. For what reason? I'm not sure. Could be we just don't like change, But folks, if there were ever a reason to change a needless look at the facts of this case. As parents, we do all we can to keep our children safe - all the while, knowing there is really no such thing. i think theres something important going on. I agree, grow up and find something to do with your life that is a little more positive for the world, and get the chip off your shoulder. Life is too short to be blaming the world for your chip when others are hurting. @ SHADOW ROCKER...As for Morgan...she was a METALLICA fan, not Lamb of God...That's why none of this makes any sense. yes there are tons of questions and yes friends do stick up for one another. but does anybody listen to the news. i mean i hear a few people saying that they dont think she even may of been there...well her purse and cellphone with battery missing was found in the nearby NOT THE JPJ parking lot. i mean how close does that get. and FACT that her cell phone called her friends with use of battery may i get @ ya...i mean ugh duh. if you have nothing nice to say plz shut up. im getting tired of people judging her. If there are secrets then there are secrets. if they knew where morgan was this wouldnt be the way it is. i dont think no PARENT in there right mind would knwo where there child was and be going CRAZY of where and what and whatever if they knew where she was...I have met these parents and i know in my heart that not any sane parent would make up such a big thing like this to get nothing in return...yes theres money but ITS NOT THERE MONEY! So you know keep giving the negitive. your just a cold hearted person...and yes ask questions but WHAT person you see on on TV that ANSWERS EVERYTHING they are ASKED??????????? Get a life people, enjoy what you have. If you know where she is or if you seen her open your mouth and SPEAK. Because yall sitting here saying bad things aint helping nobody just pissing people like me off! The main problem "Outraged" is that you're labeling a common policy as flawed based on one recent event. It's worth noting that it's too early to say that the re-entry policy is even partly to blame until all the facts come out. Unfortunately arrests at concerts and sporting events are quite common with most arrests being for drunken/disorderly behavior. Most NCAA venues do not allow the sale of alcohol so the majority of drinking takes place in the parking lot. Obviously allowing spectators to return to their vehicles to drink at will isn't a good idea and only leads to more drivers behind the wheel who shouldn't be driving. JPJ is a little different since they do sell alcohol at concerts. It's silly to label the re-entry policy as a simple way to increase alcohol sales. It may be a by-product but the primary reason is patron safety. JPJ limits patrons to four beverages and if visitors were allowed to exit, many would choose to leave for a quick drink and return to the show. This can create a very unsafe atmosphere inside the arena. The goal is to have patrons drinking less alcoholic beverages as the night progresses so they'll be able to get themselves home safely. I am curious to see the results of your research. In an earlier post you state "I researched this claim and JPJ is in the minority, nationally." In the post above you then say "Just because everyone else has a flawed policy..." regarding re-entry. Which is it? Is JPJ in the minority with this policy for concert events or the majority? DF, what you asked was "Would you mind posting some examples from your research of 15,000+ capacity arenas in the U.S." How I replied was "I will have to review what 15000+ venues allow re-entry. but again I say , Just because everyone else has a flawed policy does not mean an enlightened community has to follow suit". You have taken what I said out of context to try to forward your point, That's ok effective debating technique I suppose but you certainly have not provided an opportunity to do so. I still think it's heavy handed and wrong policy regardless of whether JPJ is a minority or majority denier of service, who allows and who does not does not really matter as long as JPJ is complicit in this case . The majority of all venues in the US certainly allow re-entry. I checked But you have still failed to show even one valid reason for allowing such policy, while I have shown you just one glaring example of why it needs to be changed today. And all of your facts figures and docile reasonings won't change this one crysal fact. Ms Harrington was denied re-entry which leads to Ms Harrington is missing Two words: Charlottesville Pavilion. That and hundreds of other venues allow reentry. Your arguments make no sense. Who checks the people that show up late? Are you saying that everyone has to show up at a certain time or else they can't come in? What about the person that decides to skip the opening bands? Who checks them for "guns and other contraband" of which you seem so frightened? Are you saying that they cannot check a person twice? Hand stamps. It's done EVERYWHERE. Only in Charlottesville is the public so docile that they would pay good money to a venue and then allow that venue to control their behavior to such a degree. It can be done, it should be done, it IS done elsewhere. JPJ, because of its connection to UVA, is overly concerned with college students that can't hold their liquor and have destructive relationships with alcohol. As a result of the irrational policy in place, this young woman is missing. They did a story on this on the Today show this morning, and interviewed the parents. Not much new info except they did say her cell phone records showed her last call was to her friends in the arena. i been following this since monday.after looking at some pics of Morgan Harrington i gotta say she appears to be a very beautiful young lady.and after reading what she was wearing saturday night i can only imagine she looked very attractive. policy is not the issue right now.the issue is what happened to her and where is she.hopefully she will be found unharmed or will return. I can see both sides to the argument on the policy of no re-entry. Batman makes solid points regarding issues that arise from allowing open foot traffic in and out of a large venue like JPJ. If there was an open re-entry option it would increase the flow of people in and out by the hundreds and potentially thousands. With that you now have to manage the parking area full time from fights, mid-concert drug/alcohol use. Not to say it couldn’t be managed, but the arrest rate for these types of issues that would arise probably would rather be avoided than caught. Also the counterfeiting issues. When I was younger my friends and I would always pull the 2 people go in with tickets and one comes out with 2 tickets and gives it to the buddy without one, we did the same with wristbands, just snip it off and make it stick on just long enough to get through the door. An escort type service may make since but can you imagine the unpredicted man power that would take? People park up to a mile away, are you going to have a one-for-one shofer for every person that wants to leave and re-enter, seems like a logistical nightmare. On the other side, undoubtedly there are people that have legitimate reasons for exiting and re-entering like was stated before Ã¢â?¬Å?for a nebulizer” or medical device, or what apparently resulted in this case, with a mistake of confusion looking for a restroom, this defiantly seems unfair and unjust. I don’t have any real proof but my assumption is that with an open re-entry policy many more people would be leaving and coming back for dangerous reasons rather than justifiable. If there was an open re-entry policy, and people were getting stabbed in the parking lot, selling drugs to your teenagers or over dosing in their cars during the concert, would you be just as outraged at what a poor environment JPJ is creating? I’m not saying there is a clear cut answer and of course this scenario blows holes right through the logic of the current policy. It is easy to blame JPJ, and it may turn out that they could have prevented this but I don’t think statements like they are making tons of money on these concerts and can afford all these extra measures can just be assumed. Do you know the net profits and margins on ticket sales? How much the band gets? How many seats are guaranteed paid out to the band even if they aren’t filled? What the operational overhead is? I’m unsure myself and perhaps they do make a ton of money but that can’t just be assumed and that JPJ is greedy. I’ve been to many JPJ concerts, and I have left some of them early, I don’t remember with 100% accuracy but I do recall while the concert was going on they limited the wide range of exit doors by locking them and making you exit through limited doors who did have ushers informing me I couldn’t come back in if I left. I think some ownership of responsibility with the party involved needs to be questioned; I’m a bit outraged at this girls friends. If I got that phone call my friend was locked out I would at least go try to talk with the usher or go hand her my keys, it just seems odd that someone would call and say yah I’ll find a ride home or figure something out and friends being ok with that when home is over 2 hours away. Who can hear their cell phone ring inside a concert anyhow? I suppose phone records can verify, but I would think txt messages would have been being exchanged on updates. To help track down what could have happened to her and how far she could be from the scene, I’d want to know more about the girls personality. What was her risk tolerance? Was she shy and nervous to approach strangers or was she more fearless and adventurous, and could have jumped into a situation that seemed fun and innocent. I knew many delightful girls in college that I would worry about because they were not scared to jump into any situation and think it hilarious to go take Tequilla shots with some rodie, or find some other random adventure. Were they staying with friends here in Charlottesville? Was her ticket stub in her purse, surely someone that kept them on their fridge for 6 months would want to keep them as a keepsake, and their wouldn’t be any pockets in that black mini skirt. Maybe its as cut and dry as it seems on the surface, a forced abduction by a confused out of town girl that couldn’t get back into the concert. The most obvious answer is usually right, but something with the whole sequence of events (that is being released) just seems odd to me. The evidence trail doesn’t look good, but I pray they find this young woman alive and unharmed, my heart and prayers go out to her family. I hope her friends thought the concert was worth it. Please people... Stop with the assumptions that she is dead!!! You need to realize the fact that the police are doing everything they can, but without the information needed, they cannot continue their search. Morgan Harrington is a beautiful girl and has a full life ahead of her. And with all of your stories about what could have happened, just stop it!!! I have known this girl for 15 years and went to school with her. It's very unlikely that she would do something like that. Please be considerate and realize that this is something that should not be taken lightly. Do your part and call the police if you know or saw anything that night. I want Morgan to be found safe and unharmed. Please help bring her home. mama, GREAT point. if they drove in her car, she would have had the keys. i never give my keys to anyone else. so how did these girls get her car back to VT? and if they had the keys, why? that is a huge hole in the story. she would not have given her keys to her friends to hold, if they all assumed they were going to enter and leave the concert together. tells me she either was never inside, or they all knew she would be leaving with someone else before they went in. I have been reading these comments with interest. I work the front gates at a 20K seat amphitheater that has a No Reentry policy. People do try to leave during the show and we remind them of the policy. If they say they have a need such as meds, feminine products, or an extra coat (because it does get cool at night), we gladly allow them to return to their car and retrieve the item. We tell them they have to go straight there and back. Part of this policy is to control drinking, not ensure we make make money off buying alcohol. There is a huge problem with kids (some underage) going back out to drink because they can't buy it inside. If they could come and go as they please, and then get in trouble out there, people would be angry that there a No Reentry policy isn't in place! You just can't win...people will find ways to criticize even the best policies. Also, if liberal reentry was allowed you'd have serious issues with overcrowding inside the venue due to creative fans getting their friends in. I worked Phish at a 13K seat arena and if there was liberal reentry, I am certain that place would have had over 20K before the show was over! Fans will take advantage of any leak in the system, especially at sold-out shows. They know how to duplicate hand stamps, copy wristbands, etc. Don't doubt their persistence! Finally, there has to be some personal responsibility. At every venue I've worked/visited with this policy, it is clearly posted. The only people that do not 'get it' are those that have had too much to drink. I cannot see a scenario where this girl had to leave the venue; everything is inside. That said, I do hope they find her and that this story has a happy ending. If they don't, let's hope that it gives a lesson to our young people to stick with their group, no matter what. We think everyone should help fine Morgan an not place blame. Morgan is the one we need to try an get her home safe. Do you all know what her Family an Friends are thinking if they read this sight. I am a mother an grandmother an it would kill me to read some of these things you all are saying. So Why Not stop an Pray for Morgan an Her family an Friends. God hold Morgan close an Bring her Home safe. God Bless Morgan an her Family. "Outraged" - the reasons for not allowing re-entry have already been posted in this thread multiple times. Not allowing re-entry by and large creates a SAFER environment for patrons with the largest reason being alcohol abuse taking place at patron vehicles. Unfortunately in this case, assuming the facts reported actually happened, it might have been a contributing factor to Morgan's disappearance. Would you mind posting some examples from your research of 15,000+ capacity arenas in the U.S. that allow re-entry for concerts? I'm very curious. Thanks! Here's a list of venues I've attended that do not allow re-entry for concerts: Greensboro Coliseum Wachovia Arena (Philly) Verizon Center (DC) Staples Center (LA) Old Charlotte Coliseum and new Time Warner arena (Charlotte) Dean Smith Center (Chapel Hill) RBC Center (Raleigh) Georgia Dome i have never seen a re-entry policy at a major venue, never. Been to 100s of concerts and sporting events. never seen it. its much more common to have a no reentry policy than to have one. Morgan was out there either due to being completely out of it, or went out there on purpose. she did not just make a wrong turn and end up out there. perhaps a guy inside said he had backstage passes, and we need to go around the building to get in another entrance? perhaps she got a call from a friend who was outside that she needed to see more than Metallica? that she accidently ended up there is nonsense. I just wanted to tell yall that the ones who are focusing on the negitive need to grow up. This has happened and she should be found. it doesnt madder how things where its how things are. i mean shes out there somewhere either hurt, scared, or even the worse. i think if yall are going to dwell upon all the negitive you should not even waist your time posting stuff. i mean her family is hurting, her friends are hurting, and all some of you can say is BAD NEGITIVE things. Im sorry but yall need to grow up and get over tired of reading negitive things. if you cant say nice things or hopeful things i dont think the family that is sitting here reading this want to see all the CRAP yall are writing. i hope she comes on okay. shes a close famliy friend to me and i dont want to read crap and i know ones closer to her dont want to read it either. go to a message board or something people read this stuff in the world. I feel the same way. Her family does not want to read some of this stuff. So if u can't say good thing, don't write anythings. Morgan I Pray you are safe and you will soon come haoe to your family. To the family we are praying for Morgans safe return home. God bless you all. @ Dakota, now the police are saying they have footage her near a bridge or railroad tracks...not sure. The more they release the stranger it gets... Two possible explanations why she left the arena right before Metallica-the act she had been waiting to see for six months. -She went out to meet someone she knew but didn't want her friends to know about--not sure why. -She went out with someone who had a backstage pass--these can be easier to get than you think--there is backstage and there is BACKSTAGE. At some concerts, a social area is set up backstage that alot of people have passes for(friends, contest winners, etc..) I don't know if that was the case for this concert. But someone with a backstage pass to Metallica could be very influential to someone who was a big fan of Metallica--pure conjecture there. i hope they find her or at least find out what happened. somebody is for sure lying. May, I know we have some pretty stupid cops walking around out there nowadays. But is there any reason you think the Virginia State Police or FBI didn't have enough sense to put a battery in the cell phone and look inside for helpful evidence? Reminds me of a local Keystone Kops event a few years ago. The local police searched a defendant's cell phone for helpful information in prosecuting him. After finding information they felt would be helpful in a successful criminal prosecution, the cops then sought a search warrant for the cell phone. The local magistrate refused to issue the search warrant because they had searched the cell phone before obtaining the search warrant. It was all I could do to contain my laughter until the cop had walked out of the local Magistrate's Office. There are a lot of questions about what really happened to Morgan, I am sure we will sometime find the answers to a few, but never to all. I have been to JPJ a few times, me personally I do not like it, it is to crowed and confusing. I too have a cell phone, and all they need to do to find out who and when she called anyone or anyone called her is put in a new battery. They can see everything that was done to the phone. Did they fingerprint it? Probably not. Another thing I have thought about is all the construction going on around UVA, have they checked those areas, Some locations are not that far from JPJ. I am a mother, grandmother and great grandmother so I can only imagine what her parents are going through. May god bless her and keep her and bring her home safely If the arena had a re-entry policy that allowed folks to come and go, and someone was abducted in the parking lot during the concert--folks would be up in arms about how the JPJ should never have allowed re-entry and that UVA is responsible for any actions of individuals in their lot. I know that the knee jerk reaction is to assess blame by going back in time to re-create what could have happened differently--JPJ has the biggest shoulders--but really, their policy is designed to improve safety for concert goers and does what it is supposed to by keeping the parking lot clear of all kinds of activities during a show. Policies that work for nightclubs and smaller venues don't necessarily work for 18,000 seat arenas. The young woman made a decision to leave the arena that ultimately proved to be a bad decision--the blame goes to whoever prevented her from getting back with her friends(however that happened). @Col.Forbin Wonder why this eyewitness account was kept under wraps ?! This explains why she left the arena. From what I've heard there are too many bathrooms, smoke areas etc...there was no need ot go outside except to meet someone. I've also heard that if you attempt to leave the arena, they make it clear you cannot come back. Morgan's friends need to tell the truth about what happened.... there was conflicting info on the car issue; glad that is cleared up. everyone hopes she is found safe; however in many cases like this, the story that is out there in the 1st few days often changes and when the truth is finally available, it looks vastly different than what we know so far. we have no idea what happened or how it happened, but i think you can almost be assured that in the end it would not have happened as its being described now. to me the least likely scenario is she was in fine shape, walked outside to get some air, found out she could not get back in, said "oh well, I'll just hang out here or find another ride", took a walk around the parking lost and got nabbed. i think there is a significant fact that we dont know. There's some new information being reported by NBC 29 tonight... @ Jenny-jerry boone -Nancy Grace just did a segment on this. The police are saying that there are credible sightings of Morgan on a bridge 1/2 mile away from the arena. Her purse and cell phone (with the battery removed) were found near this location. Morgans father was on the show. Still no answers as to why Morgan left the arena. Nancy kept asking rhetorically why Morgan would go through two parking lots and wander 1/2 mile from the bridge....Still no answers. I'd imagine, CC, that Jimi did what I did. He read the article. Nice Job Larry! Now you are as ignorant as every other venue operator in the country and just as negligent. How about a call and wait policy?, How about an escort service?, anything? Can I get a thought? a hope,? A prayer for change? How about Charlottesville being a leader in protecting our young people? How about not continuing an absurd policy because everyone else is doing it? Now I'm totally sick and disgusted and embarrased that someone with Larry's mindset is in charge of what could be/ should be the safest venue in the country. I said it before you should be ashamed of your treatment of patrons in general and this policy specifically. Excuse me while I try to get this outrage out of my head for awhile. I'll go and hug my kids now For one, where is the FBI? For two, my thought the re-enter policy is about greed to keep people from sneaking in, drugs/alcohol in the parking lot, all kinds of "reasons". Whether it's a right or wrong policy, I think you ought to be able to leave and re-enter if you have your ticket stub and arm band or stamp. Most people after paying to go to a show they want to be there, and sometimes an emergency does arise and you need to leave and come back. Old fashioned common sense needs to be applied when you have set rules in the public environment, it's not right to assume everyone is up to no good. A young girl alone should have been let back in. Have you ever really noticed the type of people they hire as "security", it takes more than a shirt to be security. Last time I went there I asked two employees where was the smoking section and how to get there, they didn't have a clue, they knew nothing about the lay out of the building. I doubt they have even been trained to get people out of the exits/how to handle a major crisis. I am really sorry for the family and I hope they find Morgan healthy and safe. Personally I would call in a professional psychic and forget the law. This story does not add up! This girl would not leave the arena on her own if she really wanted to see Metallica! And I've heard many stories and dont know what to believe...I just hope she is found... How do you know she is doesnt say that... Something doesn't feel right about the series of events. Why would she go outside looking for a bathroom--doesn't make sense. Did she maybe meet somebody (a guy?) before the concert and leave to meet him outside during the warm-up band's performance? That would explain why her friends wouldn't be concerned about her going off on her own. I feel so awful for her parents--young people think they're invincible and take crazy risks (I did), and parents know better. I hope this has a happy ending, but, wow, things do not look good. batman, no it does not make perfect sense. You have simply internalized the docility that our society projects onto its citizens. The charlottesville pavilion has no such policy, and neither do many concert venues across the country. But then these venues are in no way associated with UVA. JAL....who said that Morgan was dead??????? security is paid by the hour, not the attendance of the venue. batman sounds like he hasn't gone to a concert in the last 10 years. many venues are able to make sensible reentry policies work. Venues associated with UVA cannot. I've NEVER been told at a movie theater that I could not reenter the theater. I mean, who has ever even HEARD of a movie theater having that policy? April, your hypothetical sounds reasonable, but let's face the REALITY that the CURRENT policy led to this situation. batman, you may be right that handstamps can be forged, but the venue is making a ton of money on these concerts. Changing the stamp from show to show isn't such a huge expense. Neither is paying the security to be there for the whole show. Frankly, in light of what happened, the policy looks capricious and cheap. I'd be surprised if it isn't changed. Would you actually be upset if it is for some reason? I mean, you seem to be attached to this policy on an emotional level. ok bust on me but you didn't address the issue of a person going in, getting a ticket stub from a friend and sneaking a pal in as a comeback. Hand stamps are easily forged and at 100 bucks a ticket the motivation is there. There is always security outside the arena and I doubt that she was abducted forcefully right in front of the doors. All the security in the world will not protect someone who is conned into getting a ride from a friend of a friend when everyone is an adult. This isn't a middle school it is a concert hall with tens of thousands of people. Get realistic. For those of you who wish to boycott thats fine by me.. most of the shows are sold out anyway and you will not be missed. I think an accurate chronology of police and security actions should be reported. We can all imagine what we think we would do, what did the police actually do? Where did they look, who did they talk to, where have they not looked? What was and was not seen on security tales? If she left the Arena someone must have seen her leave --one or more of the guards who will not let people back in. Have they all been interviewed and did she leave alone ? If they are telling people they cannot re-enter, they must have talked to her. Batman, There are so many common sense solutions. Here's a few, IMHO. Include hand stamps or even wristbands in the price of the ticket. Seems the Beer companies have had some success with this and are not easy to forge or remove. Also it's not like Ticket Master or Live Nation have not already added a few fees to their tickets (add emoticon here) . In fact why not include it in the price of the beers. Why not an escort service? and increased security outside the venue,and ease up on the Smoking Police, Picture Cops inside. Why doesn't UVA add some more cameras in the lot? I don't even want to get into the ridiculous smoking area. Again, another example of shoddy treatment of your patrons Larry Wilson and JPG. Stacking up pepole like pigs in a pen. Simply shameful. Lastly I don't know what dream economy you live in but most shows are struggling to sell out if at all. Ex. Greatly reduced tix, released by UVA the day of the event. (Springsteen Dylan $20 each for me). As for "not missing us", well that simply come across as sarcastically smug. UVA and the artists are all about fannies in the seats. Concessions Man! There's the rub. Anyway Batman, I don't wish to argue with you. I know that you are greatly concerned with Ms. Harrington's safety as is everyone on this thread. April, It's hard to know what led to this, but as reported on NEWSPLEX tonight, She did place a call from the outside of the venue and apparently stated to her friend that she was denied re-entry and would seek altenative transportation home. Sounds like she didn't want to mess up anyone elses plans. Anyway people, Now is probably not the time to argue the merits of this ridiculous policy that require fundamental change. Now is the time to pray to your God for Morgan's reunion with her wonderful family, and to keep your eyes and ears open. This is such a sad story. Please pray for a jubilant ending! Goodnight. by the way this isn't perplexing me. So that was an inappropriate sig. I am still outraged Larry doesn't work for UVA, he works for SMG... They are a huge corporation that manages facilities and their goal is too make a profit. I wonder how long until you cannot leave and re-enter The Paramount as this map indicates they manage that venue too!!! A number of things don't add up--someone appears to by lying. -There is NO WAY that she accidentally left JPJ looking for a bathroom--there are more bathrooms in that building than any building in Charlottesville and the layout is such that it is hard to leave accidentally. Either her friends are lying(not likely--they are likely telling the truth--too much at stake not to) OR she lied to her friends about why she was outside the building OR the cops are lying. -I don't get how she said she would catch a ride IF her car was there. -It is hard to reconcile these inconsistencies. Was she altered, which could explain erratic behaviour? Did she go out to meet someone and not make it back? The key seems to be the communication she had in that hour after she left the arena before she lost contact. I am sure the police know things they are not letting out. The friends who were with her have some of these answers. The JPJ re-entry policy is standard procedure for an event of that type in a venue of that type. My guess is that re-entry would create MORE security issues in the parking lot--not less Well now... so since security will need to recheck people for guns and other contraband who pays? What would stop someone from going in, going out with a SECOND ticket stub and letting a "friend" sneak in? How about since the ticket is scanned and cancelled how would they know that you didn't just print out two copies on your computer and had the second person show up an hour later and say they went out another door? I know you will say that they can scan it on the way out.. ok so who pays that overhead? The answer is.. the person that uses the service should. So if you want to lobby for that go ahead. Like I said it makes perfect sense.. If someone had an emergency than I am sure JPJ security would work something out. The general no readmittance policy makes perfect sense. It is no different than a movie theater or a play. There will be more to this story.... i assure UVA that me or any of my 500+ friends throughout the city if charlottesville and albemarle and surrounding areas will NOT go to any event until the policy is changed. provide an escort service or something. has anyone ever been to a nascar race? they have security in cars,bikes,motorcycles,on foot,security cameras manned even hours after the race is over. UVA has all the money they need to provide security,or escorts or anything. PLUS. at every nascar event,they do hand stamps. i understand that nascar is bigger then JPJ. but it must be treated the same. has JPJ done any exit drills or anything like that? The no re-entry policy does not apply to someone leaving the performance area of the arena to use the bathroom or buy food, or wander the corridors. No re-entry applies to leaving the building, If an attendee goes OUTSIDE the building to the sidewalk and parking lots, he/she is not allowed to re-enter. I don't think that policy is all that unreasonable. I feel more secure knowing someone cannot enter, go through the security check, return to their car later and perhaps return with a weapon when security is more lax. In this world we live in, that could be a real possibility. No re-entry has been the policy at Scott Stadium since additional security was put in place after 9/11. I didn't realize it was the policy at the Arena since once I enter the building for a concert or sporting event, I have never felt a need to leave until after the performance or game. Curious why no mention of the fact that her cell phones battery had been removed from the cell phone... you need to take a step back from your keyboard and get some rest. yes, perhaps uva should stop holding concerts, sporting events, plays, musicals and any other events that draw a crowd. maybe they should outlaw dancing by the students as well. close the corner and require coats/ties and dresses for class. my point precisely CvilleDon! why did he just gas away then about there being no mention? maybe he/she didn't read the article before commenting? CvilleDon, you just killed the "tell" on if the posters actually read the article or are just gassing away.... When investigators have sound leads that they are following, they tend to give few interviews and offer only tidbits of info to the media. When the investigation is not going well, they offer up all sorts of information to cover themselves and their faulty findings and investigations. We haven't heard much from the family, so it is quite possible that the investigation is proceeding well. Remember when the Hollaway investigation was flawed? The parents and anyone else who could get air time were, and rightfully so, all over the media. Keep your seat belts fastened on this one. I do hope that Morgan is found safe and sound...... Can someone link the article that states Morgan's car was driven to the concert? I said she was dead because 1 + 1 = 2. Come on they have been searching for her for days and no one drops their phone and purse on purpose. If she was intoxicated don't you think she would be over the hangover by now and attempt to contact someone? Come on people, think about it... And I think the idea of stamping a hand to allow and indivudal back in should occur. And yes, unfortunately I do think this girl has met ill fate. JPA needs to rethink their policies. Metallica did not take the stage until 9:10, Lamb of God left the stage around 8:40 Based on the well lit corridors and number of restrooms in that facility I find it hard to believe that someone couldn't find a bathroom and had to search outside??? Sounds strange to me....unless she found one and the line was too long....some of the lines were long. Do we have video confirmation that she even made it to the arena? Is there anyone other than the friends who can confirm that she was there? She lived two hours away, and the "friends" claim that she said she would just find a way home? Could they have had something to do with her disappearance even before they got to Charlottesville and then planted her purse and cellphone and claimed to have spoken with her? Just a thought. But the story doesn't add up thus far. Thankyou for letting us know that such a ridiculous policy exists at JPJ. We will be sure not to have any of our children attend concerts there, since they too occasionally need to urinate. Has anyone carefully reviewed the videotapes from the exterior of the arena ? We are praying for Morgan and her parents, and for Morgan's safe return. "the so-called Ã¢â?¬Å?Farmville murders” took place last month in another college town after a high school girl met a rapper at a horrorcore music festival." That's factually way incorrect and very little research would have been necessary to find the correct info. Sad Hawes, you're the freaking editor. Mr/Mrs/Miss cat, the admission policies is most certainly an issue -- IF -- it contributed to whatever has happened to Morgan. Thank You CJ for the up date. I am keeping up with this on my cell. My conputer is in shop. Morgan I pray for you and your family everyday. God be with you and keep you safe. I agree that nobody answers everything on TV....But in this case answers to one or two of the questions would probably further things along. I think the friends could answer some of the questions, but the parents are defending the friends all the way. Again, when you put yourself in the media expect questions...If you do not answer them expect MORE questions. People who complain about questions or dodge them want their cake and eat it too. You want exposure, but don't want to bring clarity to the situation. The police are asking for tips, but dont want to answer if Morgan was intoxicated. No we don't know where she is, but I suspect the friends have more insight than they are sharing. If the secrecy continues we may never know what actually happened. I want Morgan to be found. I want every missing person out there to be reunited with their families..but when something stinks,people will comment on it....DEAL WITH IT ! It's the anti-intoxication hysteria caused by the decades of binge drinking UVA students that is responsible for this senseless policy. i continue to hope this girl is found. this whole story seems false to me. JPJ has millions of restrooms, you dont accidently end up outside after you go looking for a restroom. Im sure the girl is very smart enough to assume the restrooms are inside the bldg. i would really drill down on the friends, their story may not add up. is there proof she was there? cell phone records should prove that and that she made the call during the concert. if you did somehow end up outside the bldg, i think you try to plead your case to someone. the police would know by now if an usher or road crew had a long conversation with here to get back in the bldg. either they are withholding that info as they are looking into that person or she did not try to plead her way back in. i read somehere it was her car? if so, why does she say I'll get a ride home? makes no sense. if it wasnt her car, then she would say " do not see leave with out me". She would say, "I'll meet you at the car, dont leave without me". this portion of the story makes no sense. either she was never there, which is hard to see or she meet someone and went off with them, even if it was assumed to be just for a hour or two. i cant see her being abducted outside JPJ, its a well lit place with tons of cops outside during an event like that. you dont get dragged away kicking and screaming with all the activity around that bldg. if she walked somewhere to wait it out, it was either barracks road shopping center or the corner. cant get into any trouble at barracks road, so i would check the corner closely. I agree that no assumptions should be made about what happened to this young woman. We all have to hope she is safe and sound. It also serves no useful purpose at this time to blame the Arena policies or her friends. Prayers to all involved for a good outcome. Please, let this young woman be found safe and unharmed. Whatever happened to her should not have happened, whether it's voluntary or at the hands of a pervert. Someone prior tried to compare JPJ to the Charlottesville Pavillion or a NASCAR race with regard to security and reentering. The Pavillion is an open structure with all bathrooms, food and drink located outside the structure. As for NASCAR races, there is a real cash incentive to allow fans to exit and reenter. Souvenier trailers are located outside the track gates, these are real money makers for the owners and drivers. Bathrooms are at a minimum outside, so many fans come in to use the facilities after a long drive and then do their shopping at the race trailers. Also, beer flows freely inside and outside the track so there's no reason not to allow people to freely circulate. Buildings like JPJ are self contained. Food is inside, bathrooms are inside and souveniers are inside. Unless there is a real emergency, there's not a lot of reasons to leave the building during an event. As a native of Charlottesville, I am growing increasingly sick at the barbaric way that women in this area find theselves being treated. I watched in horror, as the body of teenager Paula Jean Chandler was fished out of the resevoir back in 81. Katie Worsky disappearing shorthly thereafter. The young lady who was a student at U. Va, who was raped, and could not get local authorities to act upon it, until the rapist contacted her to "apologize", years later. Justine Abshire, who's death is still an open mystery, and who bears an uncanny resembalance to Ms. Harrington. It is more than self-evident, that despite how popular culture wishes to spin it, this whole womens equality thing has failed. Ironically, back in the "good old days", a woman had the reasonable expectation of going to and from a social activity with her life, body and purity intact. My, how we are so refined and "civilized" here in this first part of the 21st century. History shows that women were treated this way back in the dark ages, so whats our excuse today? Secondly, we can now witness the problems when we place individuals at the door who do not posess the wisdom and discernment to be able to soundly merge the spirit of the rules with the letter of the rules. Had I been the doorkeeper, I certainly would not have denied entry to an obvious well dressed young woman seeking to get back to both her friends, and the concert she paid good money for. Now if some punk walks up in baggy britches with his hat on crooked and a loose fitting coat hiding who knows what, of course, logic and common sense dictates that is a different matter. You may get back in, but lets step over here to the magnatometer desk. Alas, thanks to corporeal automatons carrying out an erroneous policy in a mediocre fashion, lacking the ability to self- direct, self-analyze and show self-initiative, we get "zero tolerance" policies like the Honor Roll Eagle Scout who was expelled for having a pocket knife. It is more than self-evident that women are not safe here in this area. Not when you have mind numb lemmings denying access to safety, a young solitary woman in a strange city. Way to go. If this turns out badly, I hope that the individual who turned Ms. Harrington away, finds a way to live with himself and sleep at night. I sincerely hope that this ends well, and that ALL guilty parties, on both sides of the door of the JPJ, are properly dealt with. Common sense! If a young girl is standing outside, alone, without a let her back in, no matter what the "rules" are. Any dimwit with half a brain would look at this situation, realize that she isn't a threat and/or would think "Gee, if I don't let this girl in, she is going to be stranded outside for the next 2 or 3 hours" The people they hire for security at these type of events are lemmings at best. i think the police have alot more leads once the $100,000 reward was set.i believe they are gonna find out whats going on. quote: This reminds me of the adage that I think was attributed to the C.I.A. ” When in doubt, Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations and demand to see the evidence!” This is policy in all city, state and federal agencies now. Especially in ANY law enforcement agency. It's also standard operating procedure for hospitals and doctors. And if you read your auto insurance policy, it states pretty much states the same. Never admit fault if you run a red light and kill a mother and 2 children in a minivan. Nobody is expected or encouraged to admit responsibility in their mistakes nowadays. Sadly enough, welcome to the year 2009. Generally, once you find yourself outside a concert area, no one tells you that you can't be readmitted. The doors are just locked and you can't get back in. If this girl wasn't a stranger to concerts, like her dad said, then she would know this. I've been to hundreds of concerts and I don't know one single instance where you can re-enter once you have left, unless you are dealing with a small club type atmosphere. We are talking THOUSANDS of people attending these things, and there simply isn't enough manpower available to monitor everyone who leaves and who wants to get back in. You can't tell if they have real tickets, you can't tell if they have a legit hand-stamp, and you can't station people at every single point of entry. So the doors are just locked. Anyone who has ever been to an arena show would know that. This is a standard policy. I remember standing around in negative zero degree weather in a mini-skirt and a jean jacket at a Poison concert in 1986 at the Duluth Arena in Minnesota because a fellow that I was with was ejected due to poor behavior and I happened to be with him. That was one of the first concerts I ever went to. So it has been standard policy in almost any large venue since I can remember. Its no big secret or conspiracy. Anyone who has attended arena shows would know this. policy is policy that ain't gonna change anytime soon so stop wasting the bandwidth and it aint gonna bring Morgan home either. what will bring her home or at least help find out whats happening to her is is a great motivator.RIGHT NOW THERES $150,000 THOUSAND FOR THE PERSON THAT BREAK THE CASE. Jefferson Smith, I thought the same thing about her looking ALOT like Justine Abshire and I often wonder what happened to Katie Whorsky!!!!! So sad Justine was murdered and Katie disappeared and was never found!!! I hope and pray they find Morgan alive & well!!!! "If you live in Virginia and are reading this now, do me a favor. Schedule some time for yourself and any other ADULTS in your household (don't bring your kids along for this) to walk around your property. Maybe tomorrow, maybe this weekend, but sometime soon. Look behind your garage, in your garage, in the ditch in front of your house, and all through the grounds of your property. Apartment-dwellers can walk around the grounds, peek in the dumpster, look behind the bushes, explore the far reaches of the parking lot, peer into any unlocked utility rooms, parking garages, and stairwells. Look for anything unusual. (And yes, I mean you're looking for a body.) Then go to one or two of your favorite public places and look around there, too. Especially big parks and forests, like old battlefields or your favorite fishing spot. If enough people did this, it'd be way better than a police search because it'd cover more areas of the state. Don't forget to treat yourself after the search -- even a simple piece of candy is good - from I pray she is found an comes home safe I hope Morgan is found safe. However, I do not consider legitimate questions as to what happened to be negative. Morgan's family has benefited from media exposure that few missing people get. This exposure opens the door for questions to be asked: 1. It has been said that Morgan was looking forward to the concert for 6 months -So much so she had the tickets posted on the refrigerator. What could have possibly brought her OUTSIDE of the arena BEFORE metallica took the stage ? Weither a person agrees with the no reentry policy, before you exit the arena, you are warned via signs and/or security that you cannot get back in. There are smoke areas and bathrooms within the arena, yet Morgan passed all of this to get outside. WHY ? For WHO ? 2. The friends left the concert and failed to report Morgan missing. Why ? Morgan's mother said that her friends often cover for each other. What are they covering ? Are they covering the identity of the individual Morgan went outside to meet ? Are they covering Morgan's location ? I've seen the parents interviewed and everytime these questions are raised they dodge. When the issue of the friends come out it's not addressed. Yet they brought it to the attention of the media. If someone, anywone could answer these questions with some degree of accuracy, that will further the investigation along and could possibly bring Morgan home. in my opinion lamb of god is a much better band then metalica hands its possible that was the main reason for going to the show. only her friends know and i'm sure they ain't saying much. yeah its disappointing when people make negative comments because its just grief and people trying to place blame on others when really its some deranged individual or indiviuals that need to be put away. if she is a metalica fan then it is very strange. maybe someone did tell her they could take her backstage. Has anyone heard anything about Morgan today? I pray for her an her family.Morgan come home to your Family safe. God Bless you all. 16,000 people, cell phone cameras/video , security cameras and I have yet to see a single frame of footage that proves Morgan was anywhere near the JPJA the day she disappeared . . what kind of car does she have and why would she leave her car and all anyway? I think not... Ok now I have heard maybe 7 different friend accounts of this story. She called with her cell once she was barred from re-entering the arena? Also do the arena people have a record of her seat[ what seat is it by the way?] Is there a record of her even going into the arena? to use the bathroom? ok why would somebody who is not permitted back into the arean leave to go to the bathroom? and what's that about her finding a way home? they went in her car! I would sure like to see the friends interviewed by NANCY GRACE and she would ask why did Morgan say she would find a way home?You all arrived in her car??? No readmittance is standard procedure at every concert and sporting event I have ever attended. She had been to several concerts she had to have known this. I think the friends know much more than they are saying. They are definitley covering something up. It is either to protect her or themselves. However, the police I am sure suspect that but are letting them stick to their story until they get some moe evidence. As a mother I would have seen from the beginning that their story didnt add up. When she called and said she wasnt allowed back in whey didnt anyone offer to come meet her at the door (if her ticket was with them) or bring her keys to the car? I smell a rat. If you don't like the reentry policy, don't come to the shows. It's clearly stated on the website and if I remember correctly, on the ticket as well. I find it hard to believe that someone could be surprised by this rule. I also think that you would be allowed to leave and return, perhaps with an escort, in an extreme situation such as a medical need. I'm sure there also is an EMT team in the arena for emergencies. Anyone who's been to a football game at Carter-Finley has experienced the repercussions of allowing fans to leave and reenter. They leave primarily to drink and reenter in a much more drunken state creating the most family-unfriendly sports environment I've ever seen (and I've been to Eagles games). A very small portion of those leaving are returning to their cars for medication, to retrieve a cell phone, or an emergency. Most are returning to drink. This is a fact and it's the same for concerts. JPJ is one of the most thoughtfully laid out arenas I've been in. It's impossible to not be able to find a bathroom. Security can be found throughout the building. It's too early to say that JPJ is at fault. The majority of major venues do not allow reentry and if it had been proven that this endangered ticketholders, these policies wouldn't have remained. It's ridiculous to say that it's soley to keep people inside to buy more beverages. The last show I attended there was even a limit as to the amount of beer you could purchase. Lets hold off on the blame game until more is known. Lets keep Morgan and her family in our thoughts. It's still early. ETA - I do not work for JPJ, attend UVA, or contribute to the athletics foundation. the reward is now $$$150,000 thats one hundred and fifty thousand dollars people.thats alot of money people. I am praying everyday for your safe return Morgan. God be with you an your Family. Anyone know which security/ people wear the red jackets or sweaters? Morgan you need to come home to your FamilyM I pray everyday that you are safeM god Bless your whole Family an be with you.	http://www.readthehook.com/69761/morgans-mystery-what-happened-outside-arena?quicktabs_1=0	<urn:uuid:d13f07f3-8d70-493b-acf6-e279079413b0>	en	0.981494	0.116445
How Can Los Angeles Adapt to Coming Climate Change? Climate change can’t alter the blue skies or access to the beach and mountains, but it will pose four tangible threats: The summers will grow hotter, the air will be smoggier, there will be more fires, and there will be much less water © / Janne Ahvo Editor's Note: The following is an excerpt from Matthew Kahn's book Climatopolis. Los Angeles is a hedonist’s paradise. At night, you can cruise the Sunset Strip. Although The Doors no longer play there, you may run into Paris Hilton or Britney Spears before seeing Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie at a red-carpet event. During the winter, you might venture downtown to watch Kobe Bryant and the Lakers play. Every day of the year you can sit outside at Starbucks and try to identify professional basketball players looking for a latte in West Los Angeles. In spring 2009 I spotted Baron Davis of the Los Angeles Clippers at a Westwood Starbucks (but he didn’t seem to recognize me). In fall 2009 I spotted Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys as he strolled in Little Holmby Park (he didn’t give me a knowing nod or wink either). I saw Vin Diesel jog past my house not long ago (again, no seeming recognition on his part). Even the dignified former secretary of state, Warren Christopher, didn’t recognize me as he got out of his car while parking on my block. These cases suggest that I’m not a VIP, but a player such as you will have the option of ending the night at a party at the Playboy Mansion near UCLA. During the day, LA also offers a variety of natural pleasures. The outdoors is an essential part of every Los Angeles resident’s day-to-day life. Almost every day you can jog along the Santa Monica and Venice paths near the Pacific Ocean. In the afternoon you can go for a mountain climb in Topanga Park in the Santa Monica Mountains. You can walk around in shorts in February, and in the summer there is rarely humidity or a heat wave. If you are depressed, the blue skies and the ocean breeze will cheer you up. Graduate students at UCLA drive me nuts because they surf in February rather than studying or grading exams. The city feels like an unending adult summer camp. Flowers bloom in late February, and you can e-mail your friends in the Northeast and mock them by singing Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here.” Although everyone is always talking on hands-free cell phones, nobody here actually works for “the man”; LA is not a company town. The largest corporate employers in Los Angeles County are Kaiser Permanente, with 32,000 employees; Northrop Grumman Corp., with 21,000 employees; and Boeing Co., with 15,000 employees. Of course Los Angeles is famous for Hollywood. The motion picture and television show production sector is responsible for roughly 250,000 jobs.1 In a county with 8 million people, this shows that most people are small wheeler dealers. Almost everyone in Los Angeles was not born here. Many of us are transplants from cold Northeastern cities. Although we differ in heritage and ethnicity, we share a love for the sun and the good life. This city self-selects people who want to live well. With the exception of me, we are well-tanned, physically fit, attractive people. There is an abundance of plastic surgeons; service providers offering you whiter teeth; swimming pools; and life coaches to pluck, wax, and generally improve every part of your body and mind. Outsiders mock Los Angeles as a city of plagues. They have heard about the car culture, the sprawl, traffic, the smog, O.J., the gangs, the earthquakes, the Malibu fires, the water shortages, and so on. But to residents of Los Angeles, traffic is the only constant menace. Los Angelenos’ average one-way commute time of twenty-nine minutes is a result of many people working at home (their zero-commute time balances out the long commutes). On the roads there are many fancy cars both because people can afford them and because people spend so much time stuck in traffic. To a New Yorker (I lived in Manhattan for thirteen years and in the New York metro area for twenty-five), Los Angeles really is a strange city. Whereas most cities have a downtown featuring a vibrant employment and cultural center, Los Angeles’s downtown is not such a magnet. Yes, the Lakers play there, the University of Southern California is there, and Frank Gehry has built a funky Walt Disney Concert Hall there, but these three provide insufficient gravitational force to encourage the rest of Los Angeles to go downtown. My UCLA students tell me that they never go downtown and have no desire to. I am a recent LA home buyer. I made the brilliant financial move of purchasing in May 2008. When we bought our house, we made an implicit bet that Los Angeles would remain a great place to live and work. I have my fingers crossed. Home prices in Los Angeles are more than double those in other major cities. In 2008 the average single-family home in Los Angeles County sold for $578,000, and 10 percent of the homes in the county sold for more than $1,000,000. There are more than 32,000 zip codes in the United States. Of the top 200 zip codes ranked by average housing price in the entire United States, 45 percent are in California, although only 20 percent of the nation’s population lives in California. Twenty of the top 200 most expensive U.S. zip codes are in Los Angeles County, including Beverly Hills 90210. These high prices are not due to the inherent productivity of working in Los Angeles. In fact, my time spent outside in the sun while in Los Angeles has probably made me a worse economist. Economists at the University of Chicago claim that Chicago’s bad weather raises their productivity by eliminating the option of playing tennis. Los Angeles’s great quality of life is what drives up local home prices. The average buyer of a single-family house in Los Angeles County in 2008 paid $324 per square foot of interior space. If LA’s quality of life declines, my life savings will unravel. Climate change can’t alter the blue skies or access to the beach and mountains, but it will pose four tangible threats: The summers will grow hotter, the air will be smoggier, there will be more fires, and there will be much less water. In other words, as we saw in chapter 3, climate change is going to shift the competitive landscape of cities, and LA is going to take a hit. And the poorest parts of LA are going to be hurt worst of all. But there’s a lot we can learn from an examination of LA’s probable future—especially the basic lesson that prices matter. Other cities take note. Our tour of LA will show us the key role that market prices of both electricity and water will play in determining this city’s fate. In addition, this case study will highlight how government policy (such as binding land use zoning and caps on water prices) can unintentionally hinder adaptation. Will LA Lose Its Cool? California’s cool summers and warm winters distinguish its cities from the rest of the nation. Southern cities are hot and humid in summer. Midwestern and Eastern cities are cold in the winter and humid in the summer. Nobody wants to be in Houston or Washington, D.C., in the middle of summer. In contrast, in Los Angeles today the average temperature in July is 74 degrees F, with little humidity. Climate change will likely degrade LA’s ideal climate. Leading climate researchers have developed two different models that allow them to predict each U.S. county’s average temperature and rainfall by month for the years 2070 to 2099. Two computer models, with the catchy names CCSM Model and H3A1FI Model, bear bad news. Los Angeles County is predicted to be 13 degrees F warmer on average in July by 2070. The problem for current LA real estate owners (such as myself) is that a fair bit of the value of their assets (my home) rests on the fact that relatively few areas in the United States feature warm winters and cool summers. In the future LA’s climate will look like Jacksonville, Florida’s, climate today. This is bad news for my housing wealth. You might try to soothe my spirits by reminding me that all cities will face hotter summers. Unfortunately for you, dear reader, I know the lost art of statistics. I have crunched the data to study the relationship between county home prices and county climate conditions. What jumps out from this analysis is that areas with cool summers and warm winters command a huge real estate price premium. There are relatively few such areas (mostly in California), and they are in high demand. Climate change is predicted to strip away much of California’s climate uniqueness, and therefore will strip away the housing price boost that comes with that climate. Mean July temperatures close to 90 degrees F by the late twenty-first century will force down relative real estate prices to reflect underlying changes in climate amenities. Climate change will cause the most “amenity havoc” for cities in California. San Francisco, San Diego, and Los Angeles are all expected to be big climate amenity losers. The one piece of good news is that California’s major cities are not expected to become much more humid. Climate experts do not believe that there are any plausible scenarios in which California becomes much more humid in summertime in general. After all, climate change is not going to change the fundamentally dry subtropical climate of this region in summer. In contrast, cities in Florida will actually experience an improvement in their climate bundle as winter temperatures increase (an amenity) and summer average temperatures rise relatively little. Only three major U.S. metropolitan areas are expected to experience an improvement in their climate bundle due to climate change. These are Las Vegas, Fort Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach. In the case of Las Vegas, its climate bundle will improve because of predicted increases in rainfall. A critic of these climate prediction models would be appalled that they predict an average temperature over an enormous land area such as Los Angeles County, which is more than 4,000 square miles. By definition, such an “average” prediction must mask huge variations. In areas of West Los Angeles such as Santa Monica and Malibu, the cool breeze off the Pacific Ocean will cool the expensive homes of the elite. But inland, in East Los Angeles and the San Fernando Valley, temperatures already soar into the 100s in summer and are likely to be much hotter in the face of climate change. This suggests that small pockets of West Los Angeles, such as expensive Santa Monica, Brentwood, and Westwood, could actually grow more valuable as the rest of Los Angeles becomes less inhabitable. Millions of people who live in expensive San Fernando Valley homes will suffer from home price declines as their climate amenity premium vanishes. The poor and immigrants will bear the brunt of exposure to heat waves and midsummer extreme temperatures. As a point of comparison, consider the Chicago heat wave of 1995, which disproportionately killed members of elderly poor black households in the center city. They did not own air conditioners, and their fear of crime led them to not open their windows. The public health consequences of such heat waves depend on whether “victims” know that a heat wave is coming and have access to coping strategies. Not everyone can jump on a plane and head to Idaho for a week during the peak heat. We count on public service announcements to alert people of an impending event, such as a smog alert (when ambient air pollution is expected to be above a critical threshold level that threatens public health) or a heat wave, or in Asia that a tsunami is brewing. But how do we inform groups that face language and cultural barriers? In inland Los Angeles, the population is mostly Hispanic. Many of the members of these households do not speak fluent English, and some are in the United States illegally. Such individuals are unlikely to be interested in or willing to follow information provided by government sources. These are exactly the people who are most at risk from the shock. Fortunately, community-based NGOs have stepped up to fill this void. In Eastern Los Angeles, one example is the Esperanza’s Community Health Programs, which has been involved in the community by providing access to health information. Such unheralded “little guys” help a diverse city prepare for heat wave challenges. The Return of Smog? Given its topography and climate patterns and the scale of economic activity in the metropolitan area, the Los Angeles Basin suffers from some of the highest levels of air pollution in the United States. During the 1970s, before the introduction of stringent new vehicle emissions regulation that began in California in 1972, LA was the smog capital. Millions of people were driving high-emitting vehicles. Polluting oil-refining activity in the Long Beach area contributed to the local smog problem. Old, dirty diesel trucks carrying goods from the Port of Long Beach to consumers around the United States helped to scale up deadly particulate matter concentrations. In the 1970s and early 1980s, smog levels were awful in Los Angeles. Starting in the mid-1990s, ambient ozone declined sharply in Los Angeles County. Across eight monitoring stations that monitored ambient ozone in 1980 and in 2000, the average annual pollution daily excedence (when air pollution exceeds the Clean Air Act standard) count for these eight monitors declined from 103 days per year to 13 days per year. These pollution gains are especially notable because between 1980 and 2000, the Los Angeles Basin’s population grew by 42 percent and total automobile mileage grew by 88 percent. Vehicle emissions control regulation deserves a lot of credit. New cars today are 95 percent cleaner than new cars built in the early 1970s. These emissions control improvements persist over time even as the vehicle ages. Put simply, emissions per mile of driving have decreased faster over time in Los Angeles than miles driven have increased. Climate change could reverse some of this progress. The details of atmospheric chemistry concerning how volatile organic compounds and oxides of nitrogen mix to form ozone are complicated, but it can be said that heat waves are likely to cook up more summertime smog. Smog problems will grow the most away from the ocean, in East Los Angeles. Relative to West Los Angeles, East LA’s communities are poorer and have more Hispanic residents. Due to this differential pollution exposure across demographic groups, climate change will bring environmental justice concerns to the forefront. It is no surprise that wealthy, white households live in cool, clean West Los Angeles, while poorer Hispanics are more likely to live in the hot, smoggy eastern section of the city. For homes that sold in 2008, the average price of a home declined by 1.4 percent with each kilometer of distance from the beach. This housing price gradient guarantees that wealthy people will cluster closer to the high-amenity area. If climate change increases smog exposure for poor minorities, this would reverse twenty years of progress in achieving environmental justice goals due to effective Clean Air Act regulation. In earlier work, I documented that between 1980 and 2000, the average Hispanic household in Los Angeles was exposed to thirty fewer smoggy days a year because of disproportionate improvements in air quality in communities where Hispanics tend to live. Climate change may reverse this progress. In Malibu, Barbra Streisand had access to clean air even in the early 1970s when the rest of the metropolitan area was terribly polluted. The Clean Air Act’s success at reducing smog over the last thirty years has had little effect on Malibu and other coastal communities. Instead, it helped to bring about convergence between inland areas and the cool, clean coast. Clean Air Act regulation has narrowed this air pollution exposure gap between the haves and the have-nots. This is another of the main lessons that LA can teach us: climate change is likely to affect the poor far worse than it does the rich. If Malibu did become unlivable for a few weeks a year, perhaps due to high heat or smoke from nearby fires, then Streisand and friends could retreat to a bucolic Montana cabin. The Death of Green Grass? When I lived in New York City, I had never heard of koi ponds. Having lived in Westwood for three years, I am now an expert on them. They abound in Los Angeles. Although it rains only 11 inches per year in Los Angeles, millions of its residents expect to be able to shower, flush their toilets, water their beautiful lawn’s grass, play golf on green fairways, and swim in Olympic-sized private pools. As incomes in this mega-city have grown, people have come up with new ways to consume water, including garden waterfalls that help block street noise. Despite the fact that it rarely rains in Los Angeles, households in this desert area have no incentive to view water as a scarce commodity. They are charged less than one cent per gallon of water. Public water authorities refuse to engage in “price gouging,” which makes voters happy in the short run—we get to enjoy our swimming pools and ample green grass. But it means that a day of reckoning lurks in the notso- distant future. Low prices remove any incentive to get “lean and mean” and reduce one’s water use. This low pricing creates a culture of waste. When my family goes for a walk in our neighborhood near UCLA, we are amazed at the gallons of water being used for watering the lawns and, due to broken pipes and other mishaps, just flooding the roads. Los Angeles has created a “hot line” for reporting such water wastage. Like an Eastern European living under communism, I have reported my neighbors to this “Secret Water Police." Why? Although I dislike my neighbors, I especially dislike their wasting a scarce resource for no good reason. But nobody from City Hall has ever gotten in touch with me, and nobody has given me a medal. One of the first lessons taught in an introductory economics course is that prices signal scarcity. Climate scientists are emphasizing that climate change will make water a much scarcer resource in the American West. In California, there is great concern about climate change causing the melting of the Sierra Mountains snowpack. This will reduce the state’s water supply. When a precious commodity becomes scarcer, the price should go up. When prices are allowed to fluctuate and reflect free-market supply and demand conditions, a low price means that a given commodity is plentiful. The irony is that California is already in drought, but prices are still very low. The reasons for cheap water pricing remain a mystery to me. (But I must confess that I also support Europeanstyle gas taxes; raise them to $2 per gallon, I say.) A nonprofit called the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California sells the water to LA households. The agency is not interested in maximizing its profits, nor does it seem very concerned right now about preparing for climate change. Needless to say, the agency disagrees with my pricing strategies. Let’s contrast the market for water with the market for high-quality coffee. Imagine if the mayor of Los Angeles seized control of all Starbucks located in his kingdom and ordered them to sell their products at a nickel per cup of coffee. Consumers would be happy for about a day as they received deep discounts on their triple lattes. But when the Starbucks shut down because the branches were losing money, the consumers would wish that the mayor would privatize this sector again and let prices rise. Because the Metropolitan Water District does not prioritize earning “profit” (revenue minus costs), the artificially low water prices can persist for a long time. These low prices lull California water consumers into a false sense that the water will continue to flow. That attitude affects all (or nearly all; I’m exempt, but I’m an economist) Los Angelenos. Consider the case of Tony Villaragosa. Mr. Villaragosa is a successful UCLA graduate and is the mayor of Los Angeles. He is actively pursuing policies to make Los Angeles a “green city.” Yet this mayor used 386,716 gallons of water at his Mount Washington home in the year before he moved into the mayor’s mansion in October 2005. His water consumption was roughly double that of other households with similar-sized lots who live in his area. I would not call the mayor a hypocrite; I would say that he has responded to low water prices by not conserving. He is not alone. Of the 45,000 single-family homes in Los Angeles County that sold in 2008, 16 percent had swimming pools. In the subset of these homes that sold for more than $1 million, 35 percent had pools, and 46 percent of homes that sold for more than $5 million had pools. Presumably the founding fathers did not view private swimming pools as an inalienable right. How Do We Allocate Scarce Water? Growing Southern California faces a fundamental water challenge. If we are serious about getting ready to adapt to climate change, then we must allow the prices of water and electricity to reflect their true scarcity. By reducing the supply of available water, climate change will create an imperative, forcing reluctant governments to recognize that water prices must reflect the basic fundamentals of supply and demand. If demand is rising (due to income and population growth) and supply is declining (due to climate change), then the water authorities face a choice between allowing prices to rise or setting up a complex rationing scheme. Rationing makes economists nuts because it is the equivalent of handing a vegetarian a meat pizza to eat and telling the vegetarian that he or she cannot trade it to a meat lover. The authorities are struggling to cope with these expected imbalances in supply and demand caused by ongoing economic growth and climate change. The irony here is that you can pick up the Los Angeles Times once a week and see an article bemoaning California’s “water shortage.” In response to this “crisis,” cities within the Los Angeles metro area such as the city of Long Beach have adopted serious water rationing policies, including limiting lawn watering to Monday, Thursday, and Saturday and placing time limits on the hours and timing when watering can take place. Any watering must be done between 6 P.M. and 7 A.M. and cannot last longer than ten minutes. People cannot wash down driveways, sidewalks, parking areas, patios, or other outdoor areas with water from a hose. Restaurants can only serve water upon request. Overwatering lawns to the point that there is runoff is illegal. Starting June 1, 2009, the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power has proudly announced that it is using prices to address the water shortage. To protect lower-income consumers, the first tier’s prices remain unchanged, but the second pricing tier will increase by a whopping 44 percent. The message is clear: the DWP is doing something. But it’s not as impressive as it sounds. In the case of water pricing in Los Angeles, something strange is hidden within the rate structure. People who live on larger properties pay less per gallon of water. Permit me to give you an example that strikes close to home. I live in the 90024 zip code. My home is within a half mile of Candy Spelling’s $150-million mansion. She is the widow of Aaron Spelling (the father of Charlie’s Angels and of Tori Spelling) and is seeking to sell her home. Let’s compare our respective water pricing schedules. According to the DWP pricing schedules, to remain on the first tier (the low pricing of water), you must know the square footage of your lot size and how many people live in your house. During the dry months of June to Halloween, homes whose lots are 7,500 square feet or smaller face a first-tier limit during the winter and spring of 28 x 748 gallons (every two months), whereas those who live on properties with a lot size of 43,560 square feet and larger (like Candy Spelling) stay on the first tier until they consume 76 x 748 gallons. A gallon of water is a gallon of water, and we should each pay the same price for using it. The state knows that it is in the middle of long-term drought. Leading researchers see a similarity between water conditions today and events during the twelfth century, when a particularly severe drought in Southern California was coupled with persistent low flows in the Sacramento and Colorado rivers, a situation that lasted about sixty years. Los Angeles has set up a system whereby rich people who own more grass actually pay a lower price per gallon of water consumed. In my “real world,” when Candy Spelling and I each show up at the Westwood Starbucks, we each get charged the same price for an espresso. Facing this price, we make a “take it or leave it” decision. Unlike this “fair” pricing, she pays a lower average price per gallon of water than I do, because she has a bigger house! She is getting a better deal than me because she owns more grass! Implicitly, I am paying for a lot of watering of her grass. I present this case study not merely to earn your sympathy. My goal is to call out government for the unintended consequences of its policies. Climate change adaptation will be more difficult in Los Angeles because of its current policies. Many environmentalists assume that big business is the cause of our environmental problems and that wise regulating government is the only honorable agent that can force these bad guys to act in the public’s interest. But in this case it is government policies that are causing the adaptation challenge. Economists love to talk about the consequences of bad incentives, but this borders on funny. There is serious drought in the West. Higher prices for water could encourage demand-side conservation. The Los Angeles Department of Water & Power is not doing its part to “solve” the problem. If the LADWP treated everyone equally and charged everyone the same price per gallon of water, or at least exposed everyone to the same tiered pricing schedule, this agency would either collect a lot more revenue from water sales to the rich with large lots, or owners of private “golf courses” (those with big swimming pools and lots of grass) would cut back on their water consumption. Although they are wimping out on explicitly raising water prices to reflect “true scarcity,” the California water providers are trying alternative incentive approaches for reducing water consumption. California households are offered a variety of rebates for “green” appliances, including: * high-efficiency clothes washers; * high-efficiency toilets; * weather-based irrigation controllers, or “smart” controllers; * rotating sprinkler nozzles; and * synthetic turf (limit one-half acre). These rebates encourage replacement of old, inefficient durables with these water-conserving devices, but this well-meaning “green” subsidy may actually increase water consumption when people continue to face a low price per gallon of water. People may now do more wash (and hence use more water) because the price per wash has declined. To illustrate this point, consider a car that needs one gallon of gas to drive 1 mile. If the price of gasoline is $3 a gallon, then owners of this gas guzzler will pay $3 to travel 1 mile. If the household is given a vehicle that can travel 30 miles per gallon, the price per mile falls to 10 cents per mile. If this household responds to this large drop in the price per mile by driving much more, then its total gasoline consumption could increase because it purchased a more fuel-efficient vehicle! Although I doubt that this “boomerang” effect is large, this example highlights the consequences of pursuing indirect means of reducing household resource consumption rather than simply using prices. The water utilities are trying to incentivize people to economize on water and electricity consumption, but they are tying one hand behind their backs by taking the best policy option (higher prices) off the table. My mother-in-law got a chuckle recently when she received a check from her California water provider. This money was a reward for “saving water.” According to her water bill, she had sharply reduced her water consumption relative to her baseline consumption. The water provider concluded this by comparing her recent water consumption with her previous water consumption (perhaps the previous year) over the same time period. What the water authority did not know was that she was in Italy for the entire billing cycle. She had not changed her day to day behavior; because she was out of the country, she was not using PGE water to flush the toilets, water the yard, or take a bath. But the water authority is not Big Brother. It does not know why her water consumption decreased (as determined by her Berkeley water meter falling to zero). Without knowing the true cause of her “conservation,” PGE sent her a check that she would say she doesn’t deserve. Engineering Solutions to Water Shortage? Rising water prices would trigger innovation that could take some odd turns. There are new water technologies that can effectively increase the supply of water. Today, water desalinization is quite expensive. Somehow water recycling has been tarred with the name “toilet to the tap”—which is actually an accurate description of the idea.14 Certainly anyone who doesn’t trust engineering techniques would wonder whether the water is contaminated with fecal matter, but those who do trust the technology would be happy to guzzle it. Despite the science behind water recycling, in the late 1990s the Los Angeles mayor scuttled a plan that would have used this technology and mitigated water “shortages” in the city, because he was worried about voter backlash from the grossout factor. Today engineers continue to try to push support for projects such as the reuse of “gray water.” Light gray water is wastewater from the shower, bath, bathroom sink, and clothes washer. Heavy gray water is wastewater from the kitchen sink and dishwasher. Commercial technologies already exist for processing both light and heavy gray water on-site for nonpotable usage. Although the water produced is not clean enough to drink, such technologies effectively increase our supply of water for other basic uses. This is quite valuable in a world where water will become scarcer. Engineering solutions to the challenges that Mother Nature poses are not always embraced. Consider putting fluoride in the water supply. This has helped to sharply reduce cavities and other tooth decay problems. Recently economic research has documented that people with more teeth earn higher wages. Differential access to fluoridated water during childhood offers a “natural experiment” for testing how this public health intervention affects long-term quality of life. One research team used adult wages as their key outcome measure and found that women who resided in communities with fluoridated water during childhood earn about 4 percent more than women who did not live in communities with fluoridated water. Although this may not seem surprising to you, such research is necessary to help make the case that public health strategies such as putting fluoride in water improve our health and well-being. But controversy has arisen over this strategy. Some potentially valid concerns have arisen, such as that fluoride intake is not easily controlled and that children could be overdosed. Other objections make less sense. In the 1950s, it was argued that water fluoridation was part of a communist plot. Climate change will force Californians to have a serious policy discussion about water priorities. As water supplies decline, and if people reject engineering solutions such as the “toilet to the tap,” what is to be done? Will California’s Farmers Bail Out the City Slickers? California farmers offer one possible source of supply. It is well known that 80 percent of the state’s water goes to agriculture and that 40 percent of the state’s water goes to growing four crops: cotton, rice, alfalfa, and pasturage (irrigated grazing land). These four crops account for only 1 percent of the state’s annual income. Urbanites generate California’s wealth, but historical property rights allocations have granted the increasingly scarce water to farming interests. An economics 101 student would say, “Let me get this right. Farmers have the property rights to this water and are growing low-profit crops such as alfalfa and strawberries while thirsty urbanites are willing to pay more than ten times as much for this same water that the farmers are using? Let the farmers sell their water to the urbanites and then California’s cities will suffer less from climate change.” Unfortunately, many remember the “Theft of Owens Valley.” Although these events took place in the 1920s, farmers have long memories. If water sellers today believe that past farmers did not receive a good deal from the first great water transfers, this will discourage trade today in water transfers. The Owens Valley case continues to generate wide academic and popular attention. Consider the movie Chinatown. This Oscar-winning film helped Jack Nicholson pay for his Lakers front-row court seat and to perpetuate the myth that corrupt LA stole its life-sustaining water supply from unsuspecting Owens Valley farmers. Although leading economic historians have reevaluated and rejected this version of what happened, the “fact” remains that in the past city slickers outfoxed the rural farmers in a lopsided trade that led to the urbanites’ being enriched at the rural area’s expense. To quote The Who, “We won’t be fooled again.” Today’s farmers are worried that history will repeat itself as they are suckered by the “big city” sophisticates into a deal that takes their water at too low a price. Climate change will make California’s urbanites more desperate to find sources of water, and the farmers will have property rights to California’s scarce water. A farmer who seeks to maximize profits would diversify his or her portfolio of assets and substitute growing less water-intensive crops and selling surplus water to the thirsty urbanites at a high price. Such privately beneficial actions by the farmer will help Southern California’s cities adapt to climate change. Come on Baby, Light My Fire When the Santa Ana winds pick up, you know it. These are surprisingly hot winds, with gusts of 40 miles per hour or higher. The streets of Los Angeles smell like a Boy Scout fire. The odor one smells is not S’mores cooking but rather Malibu homes ablaze. These fancy homes are located in fire zones. The rest of the country fixates on great television videos of multi-million-dollar Malibu celebrity homes burning down. Local media reports have reported that actors Matthew McConaughey and Minnie Driver were among those forced to evacuate in a recent fire, and Red Hot Chili Peppers bass guitarist Flea’s home was destroyed by the flames. A text message from the rock star said his US$10.5-million mansion had “burnt to a crisp.” Today, climate modelers are uncertain whether climate change will increase fire risk. On the one hand, Los Angeles is predicted to receive 50 percent less rain than it does now, and the combination of less rain and more summer heat means a drier landscape that is more prone to fires. On the other hand, the frequency of Santa Ana winds is predicted to decline as the eastern deserts warm. Within Los Angeles, there is significant variation in the exposure to fire risk. People in the center city of Los Angeles or even Westwood face little risk from these fires, but in other areas such as Malibu, there could be significant fire risk posed by climate change. There are several possible coping strategies to protect the city against future fire risk caused by climate change. The simplest would be to reduce new housing construction in fire zone regions by requiring homeowners there to pay significantly more for fire insurance. Alternatively, these households could be offered lower insurance premiums if they build their homes with fire-resistant materials and landscape their property so that their homes are less prone to fire risk. Although I hope that local political leaders would support such “safety first” policies, I am pessimistic that these policies could be adopted. Landowners would complain that these proposals represent a property “taking,” stripping them of their development rights and exposing them to the whims of price gouging insurance companies. They would argue that their 3,000-square-foot houses should have the same home insurance premiums as similar homes built elsewhere in Los Angeles. They would say that they are being discriminated against. On some level, they are right. Different parcels of land face different risks from climate change’s new blows. Those who own land in areas that we now know are risky (due to climate change) are losers. I am not convinced that society owes them compensation for losing a bet. Similar to the developers of the St. Louis hotels located in a flood plain, these fire zone landowners want to flip a one-sided coin. They want access to cheap insurance that bails them out if a nasty fire occurs, but they also want the right to live there as if the area is not at elevated risk because of climate change. If we are serious about tackling climate change, we need to design credible incentives to push more economic activity (and multimillion- dollar homes) away from geographical areas that are increasingly at risk because of climate change. Consider fire protection in California communities at the wildland/urban interface. The biggest danger is where suburban communities abut forest lands, in counties such as Marin, Alameda, Contra Costa, and Santa Clara. In areas such as the Sierra Nevada foothills and the interior areas in Southern California, the scenery is beautiful but at greater risk from fire as climate change raises temperatures and reduces rainfall. When forest fires occur, a large amount of damage to life and property can quickly take place. California budgets $519 million for fighting wildfires, with an emergency $182-million fund. The state fights the fires with prison inmates; 4,400 are trained each year to do the grunt work. Given California’s current large fiscal deficit, the governor has been planning to release prisoners earlier. An unintended consequence of this money-saving plan is a smaller firefighting force. To my surprise, my California tax dollars are being used to pay for firefighting in this high-risk area. I naively assumed that people who live in these fire zones pay for their own extra fire protection services through local property taxes. But this is not the case. Climate change will increase both the size of these zones and the severity of risk that local residents face in them. Current state policy spreads the cost of this fire protection across all residents in the state. But consider a small change in state fire policy. If local governments in fire zones had to pay for the bulk of their own fire protection, they would change their zoning codes to allow less new development in these areas. This would immediately reduce the cost of climate change–induced forest fires. Los Angeles Has a Subway? Public transit is not used in Los Angeles. In the year 2000, only 6 percent of LA residents commuted using public transit. The Santa Monica Big Blue bus charges adults 75 cents and students 25 cents a ride, yet this isn’t enough of an incentive to lure mass ridership. Although the car is cool, a more fundamental reason why people in Los Angeles do not walk, take the bus, or use the subway is that the city is so spread out. Urban researchers have documented that this city has at least sixteen different major employment centers, each with more than 100,000 jobs centered in it. Unlike nineteenth- and early twentieth-century cities, which had a single downtown employment center, the modern city has multiple employment centers. When people work in the suburbs, they are highly likely to commute by private vehicle. The paradox is that the average Los Angeles resident lives in a neighborhood with 13,100 people per square mile, but few live a “new urbanist” lifestyle of walking and biking to places of work, shopping, and cultural activities. In recent years, the city and federal governments have invested billions of dollars in a subway and light rail system geared to getting people downtown. The Red Line is LA’s subway. It was opened in early 1993, with extensions through Hollywood opened later in the 1990s. The total cost of building this system has been roughly $6 billion, or $300 million per mile. Today, 150,000 people per day ride this subway. In contrast, 5 million per day ride the New York City subway. Today, Los Angeles is considering building a “Subway to the Sea.” This east/west subway could take people from Hollywood, west through Beverly Hills, Westwood, Brentwood, and then finally to Santa Monica and the beach. My UCLA students tell me that they will take this subway (which will cost roughly $1 billion per mile) the 5 miles to the beach once it opens. If this subway does cost $5 billion to build, and if it attracts 200,000 riders per year, then after twenty-five years it will have attracted 5 million riders. The average fixed cost of providing this service would be $5 billion divided by 5 million, or $1,000 per rider. Critics would argue that a taxi, even a Beverly Hills taxi, would charge much less than $1,000 per ride. Of course I am partially kidding. There are environmental and congestion benefits from building such a subway, and the subway would live on for years. But transit advocates must admit that in the absence of huge federal subsidies of up to 80 percent, there would be a serious public policy debate over whether subways are a good investment of scarce tax dollars. The case for building such a costly subway would be stronger if the federal government taxed gasoline to reflect its contribution to climate change. One leading economics study concluded that the tax on gasoline should be $1 a gallon higher than it is today. If the average household consumes 700 gallons of gasoline a year, this extra $700-a-year tax on gasoline expenditure would push some of them to switch from using their cars to taking public transit. Could Public Transit Become Hip in Los Angeles? Ridership of a new subway would increase if LA’s density increased to match a Manhattan-style density (via higher apartment buildings) on the west side of Los Angeles. Climate change will increase the demand to live closer to the temperate, low-smog coast. If in the near future the United States passes a carbon tax or cap and trade program for electricity consumption and fuel consumption, this will create incentives to live in high-density skyscrapers in West LA locations. In a nutshell, there will be incentives and infrastructure developed to make Los Angeles look more like Manhattan. Given that buildings can live for one hundred years, these changes to the city’s urban form will only gradually be noticeable. Manhattan is the densest county in the United States, with an average of 70,595 residents per square mile. If parts of Los Angeles could achieve a similar density, this would create a market demand for fast subways that would be used and pay for themselves. In comparing the carbon footprint of the nation’s major cities, New York City has a small footprint. This is due to its residents’ use of public transit and living in relatively small homes. Given its temperate climate, West Los Angeles could have an even smaller footprint if people there lived at Manhattan’s density. Who might demand such new urbanist living? Crime in LA has been on the decline. In the past, suburbanization has been fueled by “flight from center city blight.” But this process could reverse. Amenity-seeking young people and empty nesters enjoy the high quality of life in the center city. Households with young children would be less likely to demand such dense apartment living. If Los Angeles starts to resemble Manhattan’s urban form, it could help to reduce this city’s notorious traffic congestion. A dense coastal core of high-rise buildings would provide a political constituency who might vote in favor of congestion pricing on LA’s major highways. Despite its well-known traffic congestion, Los Angeles has been slow to experiment with innovative solutions for this problem. In 2003 London implemented the Central London Congestion Charge. Commuters pay a fee of roughly $15 when they enter the center city during peak times. The road charge could vary over the course of the day. At 3:00 A.M., when the roads are empty, the road charge could be zero. Such incentives would help to spread out driving over the course of the day, reducing demand at the peak and increasing demand off-peak. This would increase traffic speeds during rush hour. The revenue collected from such a program could be used to improve public transit. This is the approach that London has adopted. By improving basic bus service (in its frequency and the quality of a ride), London has managed to lure middle-class people to commute using this mode. As public transit is no longer viewed as a poor person’s travel technology, any stigma effects vanish, and this further reinforces willingness to commute using public transit. Outside of dense Northeastern cities such as New York City, Washington, D.C., and Boston, and environmentalist cities such as San Francisco, it is not a stretch to claim that the poor and lower middle class disproportionately commute using public transit. But this is not a constant. Improvement in the quality of public transit and densification would both reverse this long-term trend. Hurdles: Local Growth Controls To protect LA residents from climate change, we want to encourage more dense development near the water in coastal communities such as Santa Monica, Venice, Malibu, and Pacific Palisades. These communities are cooler and face less smog than East Los Angeles. The densification of West LA would offer global carbon mitigation benefits. But wealthy, coastal communities are likely to block new apartment towers. Local cities control land use and permitting for new construction. At least up to this point, these communities have not encouraged such high-density land use. There is a certain irony here. The residents of these communities are pro-green Prius drivers, eagerly installing solar panels on their houses’ large roofs. On a day-to-day basis, they are living green and are proud of it. But Barbra Streisand and friends might not welcome thirty-story skyscrapers nearby. By giving their individual communities an implicit veto right on local development, Los Angeles as a metropolitan area loses access to a readily available adaptation strategy. Consider Santa Monica and Beverly Hills, two beautiful cities located in West Los Angeles. Each has a population of roughly 90,000. Between 1990 and 2008, Beverly Hills averaged permitting 61 new total units per year, while Santa Monica issued new permits for 303 units per year. In this highly desirable community with roughly 30,000 housing units, this is a very small growth rate. Some claim that the west side of Los Angeles has no land for development, but when I walk from Beverly Hills down Wilshire Avenue to UCLA, I see plenty of land parcels that could be converted from their current purposes into high density housing. In pristine Santa Monica, I see one-story auto repair shops that could be torn down and built up into six-story buildings. If such a building had twelve new units that each sold for $1 million, then the total revenue from this conversion would be $12 million. Could the auto repair shop’s present discounted value of its future profits really be close to $12 million? I don’t think so. This suggests that binding zoning regulation is inhibiting the conversion of scarce land to its highest value use. This grosses out the economist, and it should also upset environmentalists who are eager to see Los Angeles be nimble enough to adapt to changing climate conditions. Sacrifice Golf to Save the People West Los Angeles has other parcels of land that might be more desirable than converted commercial properties. Consider the private golf courses. These large green open spaces are reserved for wealthy golfers. I still like Tiger Woods, and I wish I was in as good physical condition as John Daly, but let’s think about what developers could build on the combined prime land at just two golf courses on the west side. Together the Riviera Country Club and the Los Angeles Country Club take up 377 acres (0.6 square mile) of prime West LA real estate. If the land were built up at Manhattan’s density of 70,595 people per square mile, it would yield housing for 0.6 x 70,595 = 42,357 people. If on average there are three people to an apartment unit, then 14,119 new housing units could be built there. If each sells for $1 million, the total new real estate would be worth roughly $14 billion. The increase in supply would cause the price of nearby housing to fall, but this negative supply effect is unlikely to be large. There are a number of people around the world eager to live the West LA lifestyle. Yes, there are tradeoffs. I am sacrificing golf for shrinking our per capita footprint and adapting to climate change. But such densification would create a virtuous cycle, as it would increase the demand and usage of a Wilshire subway. This “Manhattanization” of the west side would offer a variety of medium- and long-term environmental benefits. If West Los Angeles does become more amenable to high density development, there are also fundamental engineering challenges that will have to be addressed. As everyone knows, Los Angeles is prone to earthquakes. Building tall buildings in earthquake zones poses a set of engineering challenges that would have to be tackled. Readers who love golf may now view me as the great Satan. I apologize for infringing on your constitutional right to play golf in paradise. My real goal here is to encourage a reconsideration of current land use regulations in Los Angeles. With such relatively small changes to status quo policies, this city can make a big push toward achieving a sustainable future in a hotter world. Prices Matter A major theme in this chapter has been the importance of getting prices right in our hotter future. I am not talking about Starbucks but rather about basic necessities such as electricity and water. Climate change will simultaneously increase the demand for them while restricting their supply. A consistent irony is that government policy is hindering urban adaptation to climate change. Up to this point, local and federal government policies have not helped our cities prepare for climate change. In both water pricing and electricity pricing, by placing a ceiling on prices and introducing strange implicit subsidies (such as the one directed toward Candy Spelling’s property), Los Angeles and other major cities are choosing not to expose urbanites to real scarcity signals. Los Angeles is risking its green future by its continued mispricing of scarce resources. My city is not alone in this regard. Similar policies are in place in many U.S. cities. Capped prices matter because many of us need an explicit nudge to change our ways. Behavioral economists emphasize that like Homer Simpson, we are lazy procrastinators. But if we are serious about making a proactive push to adapt to climate change, we must face the truth about rising scarcity in our hotter world. From Climatopolis: How Our Cities Will Thrive in the Hotter Future by Matthew Kahn. © 2010 Matthew Kahn. Reproduced by permission of Basic Books, New York, New York. Share this Article: Scientific American MIND iPad Give a Gift & Get a Gift - Free! Give a 1 year subscription as low as $14.99 Subscribe Now >> Email this Article	http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/los-angeles-adapt-to-climate-change/	<urn:uuid:344bcced-68ae-45ac-8429-ef1aca847ed6>	en	0.953431	0.05063
x syria KRON (MyNetworkTV) 1 WGN (CW) 1 ( more ) English 108 Set Clip Length: unfortunately expected today. >> give me shelter. a report says google managed to hide big money from uncle sam overseas but they did it without breaking any laws. >>> tom on top. do you know what i'm talking about? days after welcoming a new baby daughter tom brady takes charge in a big "monday night football" rout. >> he's so dreamy. >> you heard it here. >> tom brady is the definition of dreamy. i'm happy to say it. >> what about his wife. >> she's dreamy, too. there's a lot of dreamy going on in that family. >> welcome back to "early start." i'm zoraida sambolin. >> i stayed up way too late watching that game last night. >> apparently. >>> our top story this hour is the weather. more storms expected to smack into the south. yesterday, a large swath of that region from louisiana to florida was hit with severe weather. there were reports that tornadoes did touch down and take a look at this video. a man in birmingham, alabama was talking to a reporter about how bad the weather was when this happened. >> we had dogs, he was in the cage -- oh, my god. oh, my god. oh, my god. oh, my god. you all lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] while you're getting ready for the holidays, we're getting ready for you. tis the season. for food, for family, and now, something extra -- for you. >> first the wisconsin state capitol, now michigan. hundreds protesting against michigan coming a right to work state. today republican governor rick snyder and gop leaders saying they will push to right to work legislation. and tonight both the michigan house and cincinnati passing the measure. we spoke with.gov nor snyder about the erupting fight. >> nice to see you, sir. >> good to be with you. >> you've had an interesting day at the state capitol. you've had arrests and protests and pepper spray, the police locked protesters out and about an hour later the union got an injunction to open the doors. so what provoked all this today? >> well, if you look at it, it's really about freedom to choose. it's about being pro -core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >> laura: in in the back the segment tonight. chaos of back drop incivility in parts of the middle east. former vice president dick cheney is now lashing out at president obama over his foreign policy our allies no longer trust us and our adversaries no longer fear us. when the the president can make bold statements and bold talk as he did in the last couple of days about developments in syria, but i don't think they care. barack obama isn't just dealing with his budget problems, he, in fact, is restricting the future capabilities of the next president two or three times down the road in terms of our capacity to be able to deal with fundamental threats to the united states. >> laura: of course, not everyone sees it that way. joining me now are former u.n. ambassador to the united nations under president clinton nancy and nile at the heritage foundation. all right, nancy, let's look at your reaction. dick cheney comes out and increasing to 4g lte. d-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >> very disturbing story developing tonight involving the royal family and radio show hoax that took a terrible turn. the nurse duped into transferring a prank phone call has been found dead an apparent suicide. her body was found just yards away from the hospital where she worked. two days ago she received this call from australian radio pranksters pretending to be the queen. >> laura: joining me from new york is fox news host geraldo rivera who himself is a radio star. okay, geraldo. this is so heart-breaking and so sad. this thing that is so -- brings such great news to britain's new baby coming for the prince and princess and now this. where does this stand? >> first of all, at the very least you have two radio djs have invaded the privacy of a sick, pregnant woman. you know, regardless of who she is. and i think it is, you know, good news that michael christian and mel greg, the degees you dj's have been noose inflation hedges, as it's do noug, over the intels and microsofts and googles of the future. if you want economic growth, you are must strengthen and stabilize the dollar. the fed is doing the opposite. >> john, what if gold dropped substantially and the dollar rose. what would that mean for our economy? >> it would mean growth yet again. you wouldcy limited capital would flow away from these inflation hedges that achieve no real economic growth and back into the knowledge economy, back into the technology firms that will make us more efficient. back into the ideas of the future. >> so it would be good, be a good thing. get gold town, get the dollar up. >> listen to this, folks. team obama is talking about a growth policy by cutting corporate tax rates and reforming the corporate code. that's right, i said cutting the tax rate. if there's any truth to it, i will optimistically support it. free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity, including corporate business tax reform, which i have wanted for so long, i can't even remember. i'm kudlow. we'll be back soon. >>> w will hear from a google vice president who served in the u.s. house of representatives in 1990. hosted by the center for american progress, this is 55 minutes. >> that is a really tough act to follow. i am delighted to be here. let me tell you one quick story about our host and one of my favorite people. i did a column one time in which are referred to her as the sugar ray robinson of policy issues. sugar ray robinson was pound for pound the greatest boxers in the history of the game. whenever i see her, i say hi, sugar. one of my younger reporters said to a colleague, she is a different generation. it is a terrific -- it is terrific to be here. he is a tremendous asset. his real claim to fame is he is part owner of the boston celtics. to but the more we will talkjonathan teaches at thehe has written 150 books. i say about pat moynihan that he had written more books than most senators have read. i am dazzled by that. he is also a senior adviser at the center for american progress. he's very interested in the subject. susan, we have to stop meeting like this. we have done more seminars. will amount to about $16 million u.s. starbucks along with google and amazon have been using legal loopholes to minimize their corporate taxes in britain. execs of all three companies recently got a public -- >> despite the fact that starbucks, how much money it makes. it's kind of like a drop in the bucket. >> well, yeah. yesterday we pointed out that between all the various ways that starbucks takes there is really nothing left, nothing at all left for profits. today what the company announced is that they are going to take the money that they pay in royalties and the money they pay on inter-company events like loans, and here going to no longer take deductions. what does this mean in reality? in practice it means there will be money, more money, for starbucks to pay as corporation tax, but here's the thing. >> okay. >> they say they'll pay maybe $50 million this year. the numbers are still being worked out. similar amount next year. well, you might have gotten that the british say, oh, yes, nice round of applause. not a bit of it. people are saying in this country tonight fair enough, sta 's built a rocket ship to travel into space." google, how far is earth to the moon? the moon is 238,900 miles... "the great moment had come." 3, 2, 1... [ giggling ] >>> heisman trophy, college football's highest award, will be given out tomorrow night in new york. the front-runner could make history because this is his first ncaa season. mark strassmann reports on this sudden sensation, who has a lot of fans back home in texas. >> reporter: in his freshman season, johnny manzell's free wheeling style has set records, beat the nation's top team and created a nickname for the ages at texas a & m, johnny football. >> i don't really see myself as the johnny football craze. it's kind of swept aggies and around the nation a little bit. i see myself as johnny manzell from kerrville, texas. >> reporter: at ggie land outfitters, manziel's number two jersey is number one in sales. >> so many people. we're trying to print them as fast as we can. just bear with us. we'll get everyone a shirt that wants one. >>. ♪ johnny football and >> reporter: manziel's legend is sung, a country version, r . >> greta: all you have to do is google mexico and cartel and you read every night how many people are murdered, innocent people beheaded, their hearts cut out of them, they're hanging from bridges, just the worst things you can imagine. it's every single day if you google. thanks, congressman. >> thanks so much. >> greta: breaking news out of egypt. the crisis there getting worse. violent clashes erupting between protesters and supporters of president morsi. the latest from cairo is next. >>> plus, we're going to have more on this breaking news in syria. president assad is preparing to do the absolute unthinkable, to unleash deadly sarin gas against his own people. there's a report tonight the nerve gas is locked and loaded inside canisters and ambassador john bolton is here coming up. [ female announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day women's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day 50+. gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% ? >> can i google it? >> bad news. bad news. fiscal cliff end of the world apparently. >> is it dangerous cliff. >> seems to be. >> how do you feel about it? >> i am a middle class woman whashgs do you think? >> isn't that like a government? this is embarrassing. >> what will happen if they don't fix it? >> it remind me of something i learned about in school but i am going to guess some type of cliff like mountain avalanche type of cliff maybe. >> how tall is it? >> i would say 370 some feet. >> many people thought it was an actual cliff. i guess the word fiscal -- >> some people thought it was a movie or the guy from cheers cliff. >> janice dean has the weather report for us. >> some people say it feels like an avalanche out there. >> you can see the temperature change. 25 degree difference in new york. that's why people are angry. what happened to our warm temperatures. 31 in nyc, 32 philadelphia. we are talking about witnessed chills what it feels like outside. feels like 17 in buffalo feels about 5-10 degrees difference when you head outdoors. make sure you bundle up. satellite radar google and find out who they are. >> i know who jack white is. >> jazz pianist dave brubeck died at the age of 91. they put out "take five" one of the best-selling jazz songs of all time. les munves weighed in on that angust. jones comment. he says compared to charlie sheen this is a piece of cake. he added, by the way, jones is still collecting his $300,000 a week paycheck. >> it's doing great in the ratings. >> it has buzz there. any publicity is good publicity. finally, jimmy fallon has done it again. he and mariah carey decided to get everyone in the christmas spirit. ♪ >> that just reminded me, i have to get myself my christmas sweater this year. >> i'm lynn berry. this is "first look" on msnbc. stay tuned, "way too early" starts right now. >>> it took us three months to establish trust. these guys don't trust each other. they don't even trust each other in their own party. we have leaders who are people behind them with a shift hoping they can get their job the next go around. durbin has someone looking over their back. every time they deal and over on letter. he's built a rocket ship to travel into space." google, how far is earth to the moon? the moon is 238,900 miles... "the great moment had come." 3, 2, 1... [ giggling ] a delicious new way to get essential vitamins you need. just bite into the tasty shell... to a chewy vitamin core for a unique multivitamin sensation! new centrum flavor burst. >>> a very warm start to december means bare slopes at many ski resorts across the country, like here in central virginia. resorts that hoped to open this weekend are delaying those plans. >>> winter will come eventually. so, here's a warning from sweden. one very unlucky driver leaving the car window open during a storm. filling his ride, yeah, with lots of snow. good luck digging out of that one. never seen that before. look at that. >> that's unfortunate. i'm not going to be able to make it to work today. >> try the defroster, dude. >>> now, for a look at road conditions. highways can be wet from charleston, south carolina, to savannah. and showers will dampen roads around louisville, omaha and des moines. a slick ride from seattle to p tablets like amazon, google and samsung. >>> facebook could get another boost on wall street. the social media site is joining the nasdaq 100 index. shares will be added next week. the nasdaq 100 represents the 100 largest nonfinancial stocks trading on nasdaq and investors say it's somewhat of a victory for facebook, which has struggled on wall street since its ipo in may. >>> 4:51. the feds are targeting a baby recliner maker after five infant deaths. this is the new model of the napa valley nan called the chill. the cpsc says in a complaint that the device causes substantial risk, injury and death to babies. the commission says it has received more than 70 reports of children nearly falling out of the recliners. so if you have one, beware. >>> time now is 4:52. coming up, the bay area grocery chain that's in danger of going belly up. >> plus, let there be light. the livermore family that apparently loves to celebrate christmas. look at that. >> that's beautiful. >> and your canines clamoring to get outside? if they are, get yourself a doggie doorbell. we'll explain when we come back. companies like google and apple, you would stay with apple? >> absolutely. one of the great bragrands domit here, apple will do well. >> you are saying, keep your eye on the longer term. don't look at every breath for this clip business. try to have a long der term. >> if you are trying to dance aren't what a politician is saying over here. in guesting for the long-term you have to look three or five years out. >> all right folks the real divide in america is not just the rich and the poor it is between private and public workers. don't think the folks haven't figured that out. we have an eye opening poll for you on that subject. stay with us please. work hard . since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride rival google. apple is trying to regain market share from samsung. the to tech companies are back in court today to get it out over a $1 billion patent fight. meantime nationwide insurance is warning customers that its computers networked had been attacked. customers' names birth dates social skirted numbers and driver's license numbers were likely stolen. nationwide is apologizing and are offering customers an identity that protection for one year. start planning did vacations, walt disney new fantasyland is officially open. this is after what may be the biggest expansion in the orlando parts 41 year history. the estimated $300 million magic kingdom makeover includes giving up our guests pagers so they do not have to wait in line anymore. the park has been struggling with stagnant attending for the last five years. still ahead, how a disabled woman is saved after falling onto the c t eight tracks. and later on the medical watch, what a new study says about the effects of coated aspirin. and last year chicago tribune named them a band to whites. live music from a paper at rose. a of a coke machine. it is already this. this is nothing new. google and comcast have filed similar things. now things are so interconnected it is a problem. >>trace: thank you, sir. controversial video shot in a los angeles firehouse, the same firehouse that got mixed up with a porn shoot. next. ays a key role throughout our livesiv es. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. gives you a low $18.50 monthly plan premium... and select generic hypertension drugs available for only a penny... so you can focus on what really matters. call humana at 1-800-808-4003. >>trace: the same los angeles fire station where an adult video was filmed last year at the center of another controversy, a new video shows a woman dressed up in fire gear with little clothing dancing with a hoop. the fire department professional standards division is investigating and after we learned of the porn shoot the fire chief acknowledged that he had posed for racy photos at the station way back when he wa of income to go after giants like starbucks, amazon and google, which have taken advantage of loopholes to allow them to pay minimal tax in britain. >> not paying their fair share, despite being over the u.k. on every high street. it's gisting behavior. i pay my tax, why not starbucks? >> sometimes they position themselveses in other country to avoid paying high taxes here and britain. amazon did $320 million in turnover in the u.k. it paid less than $3 million in british tax. all of this within the law but parliamentary law accused them of immorally minimizing the tax obligation. some say don't blame the big guys. >> i don't moral is the way we ought to levy our taxes. it should be set out in law and fairly enforced by the tax authority. individuals have their own moral compass that guides what they choose to do. >> starbucks does appear to feel the heat of public pressure. saying we need to do more. we are looking at the tax approach in the u.k. the u.k. said it will tighten its tax regime but it has not said how. other european countrys have similar concerns. with some calling for mo the country to washington, dc, and, yes, it is a charity and you can give money. if you google "honor flight" it will take you to it. >>shepard: good stuff, trace. >> researchers are testing a new weapon in the ballot against alzheimer's disease. we reported on this last night. doctors say the so-called brain pacemaker could stem memory loss. it could be a big development. >>shepard: more breaking news from the supreme court. the supreme court will hear pay for delay drug case. the u.s. supreme court agreed do decide whether brand name drug companies may pay money to go next drug rivals to keep the lower price markets off the market, a practice estimated to cost consumes and the government billions a year. the arrangements are known as pay for delay or reverse payments and they have for a decade vexed antitrust enforcers after a court decisions that allowed the practices. a go -- generic case will be paid to keep the drug off the marriage. and they will hear the case on whether gay marriage should be protected federally, and that will be taken up in march and we could know by the summer. res intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. stop! stop! stop! come back here! humans -- we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back with great ideas like our optional better car replacement. if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call... and ask one of our insurance experts about it today. hello?! we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, and we do everything we can to be there for them when they need us. [car alarm blaring] call now and also ask about our 24/7 support and service. call... and lock in your rate for 12 months today. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? >> john: president roosevelt declared december 7, 1941, a day that will live in infamy. on this anniversary of the surprise attack on pearl harbor, william la jeunesse introduces us to a remarkable man. who survived attacks on two battleships. and is now finally at rest with his fel storm sandy this year. google reports more folks wanted to know about the korean performer who dances like he's riding horseback. psy could not knock whitney houston from the top of searches in 2012. the death prompted more searches than the gangam music style that went viral. >>> got crisis? according to the "wall street journal," which our parent company own, the milk business could be in for a long-term troublesome time. the journal points to statistics show not guilty 1975, each american drank 28 gallons of milk. gross. you see, then that number has fallen. the journal reports it's because of price increase examines more people being concerned milk is high in calorie, which it is, and turning to bottled water. the milk companies are fighting to win back customers, pushing back with protein enhanced milk. more news for dairy lovers. scientists in europe say they found the oldest evidence yet of cheese making. 7500 years old. researchers tested pottery fragments from poland, which had strainers that could have helped make beer, honey or cheese. hopefully beer. they say they found upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >> gretchen: big fox news alert for you. you are looking at brad new video this is kit kate middleton and prince william leaving the hospital. the expectant mom was hospitalized for morning sick. she is head to kensington palace for r and r. this doctor is the expert on this sort of thing. the big news is she's out of the hospital which from your point of view is good news. >> that means she will eat and drink and maintain her nutrition and weight. very good news. >> gretchen: what did she suffer from. >> for those of lucky of pregnant and children we know what morning sickness foals like. >> right. hyperemesis gravidarum is morning sickness on steroids . persistant nauseous and vomiting and unable to maintain nutrition and hydration that can lead a woman in a state of the sarvation that is bad in pregnancy and it is a condition that we don't understand the cause of and related to pregnancy hormones and it leads t know. they can go on the google. >> it's not the usual spelling. >> knots not the typical spelling. >> thanks for watching. aaron burnet "outfront" starts right now. >>> "outfront" tonight, our lawmakers celebrate the holidays with a tree lighting, but they still can't see the light when it comes to the fiscal cliff. 28 days to go. what will it take to get a deal? >>> plus, the stern warning for syria from nato. the use of chemical weapons will bring an immediate reaction from the international community. we ask our panel if the united states will go to war. >>> and a new hollywood movie about the hunt for osama bin laden sparks oscar buzz and outrage. questions over just how much confidential information the film makers had access to. an "outfront" investigation. let's go "outfront." ♪ >>> good evening, everyone, i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, let there be light. finally, some bulbs turned on in washington this evening. well, on the congressional christmas tree, that is. pretty beautiful. lights, love, camaraderie, song. but while our lawmakers took some time to celebrate ? >> i have no idea. >> where is it? >> can i google it? >> bad news. it's bad news. fiscal cliff. >>> end of the world, apparently, right. >> if you wanted to take one of these cliff bars, if you wanted to take one that tasted like the fiscal cliff. >> which one would you choose and why? the one that tastes like crap. >> we're all going to fall off the face of the earth. >> they need to fix it. that's what they're paid for. >> what happens if they don't? >> we're going to lose some money. >> it reminds me of something i learned in school, i'm going to guess some like of cliff, avalanche. >> how tall is it? >> i'd say at least like 370 some feet. >> i don't know. it sounds like something disgusting to eat or something. >> you heard of it? >> it's part of our economy going choooooooo. >> i'm pretty sure we don't have a fiscal cliff. >> we fell off of it. >> yes, we did. >> is it a dangerous cliff? >> it seems to be. >> how do you feel about it? >> i'm a middle class woman. what do you think. >> so is the president on the naughty or the nice list? >> he's definitely naughty. >> what upgrading to a quad-core processor. pre-cognitive intelligence with googlenow complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >>> "a 360 news" bull ton. john mcafee has been arrested by guatemalan authorities akoring to the country's interior ministry. he's accused of being in the country illegally. a government spokesman says he'll likely be returned to belize tomorrow. police in belize are eager to question mcafee in the shooting of his neighbor. mcafee says he's being persecuted by the belize government. he's been on the run since the killing last month. >>> and chaos in cairo. protests continue outside the presidential palace. the health ministry reports at least four people dead and more than 270 injured. some time in the next few hours, president mohamed morsi is expected to address the nation. demonstrators are upset with mor morsi's power grab last month. >>> and massive job cuts at citigroup. 11,000 jobs set to be eliminated in an effort to trim costs. citi will also consolidate or close 84 bank branches in the u.s. and othe the web site. just google elizabeth warren. i think i want to write her a check plyself. i would really love to see her join the ranks of the united states senate and get rid of scott brown. 1-866-55-press. what the current audience can expect from my show is the unexpected. >>stephanie miller challenges the system, now it's your turn. >>it's a little bit of magic. >>connect with "talking liberally with stephanie miller" at facebook.com/stephaniemillershow and on twitter at smshow. ♪ ♪ >> announcer: stephanie miller. ♪ [ inaudible ] ♪ >> stephanie: it is the "stephanie miller show," welcome it to, twenty-two minutes after the hour. we are so competitive, aren't we karl? >> that's right. >> stephanie: ed asner who is on today's show also made news busters. he asked a fox news producer if he could urinate on him. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: all right. you win this round, asner. >> in fairness to asner, maybe he thought it was a shower with bill o'reilly that he was getting into? [ laughter ] >> stephanie: let's continue. bryan fischer on that there american to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >>> we're back with tonight's "outer circle" where we reach out to our sources from all over the world. to seoul where they are getting ready to react to an expected missile launch by north korea this month. paula hancocks is following this story. i asked her what more we know about north korea's plans. >> tom, as north korearies. to launch its second rocket this year, as early as monday, the u.s. is making preparations of its own. the navy is moving two guided missile destroyers to the region, although they're not saying exactly where. pyongyang says they are trying to send a working satellite into orbit. but the u.s. and other countries simply don't believe that. they believe that this is a cover for testing the long-range missile technology, which is banned by the united nations. one senior government official here in seoul tells me that a motivation behind this rocket launch may also be domestic instability. the source s . brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. a hybrid? most are just no fun to drive. now, here's one that will make you feel alive. meet the five-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max says ha. c-max says wheeee. which is what you get, don't you see? cause c-max has lots more horsepower than prius v, a hybrid that c-max also bests in mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. >> greta: frightening news tonight about al-qaeda in libya. according to the latest western intelligence reports, al-qaeda which is already linked to a terrorist group in libya is now trying to establish a new base following the benghazi terror attack. the obvious fear, of course, is that the terror group will use that base to launch attacks against western targets. former un ambassador john bolton joins us. good evening, sir. is there any sort of terrific surprise out of this news? >> no. this has been a risk every since the overthrow o of gaddafhi that libya will fighting, what they were saying to me in english versus what we googled them saying to the persian press in persia was radically different as to the status of the u.s. fleet headquarters and so forth. so we do have a constant problem in which many of the people working on -- >> what did they say? you said you spoke to them in persian. >> okay. when they spoke in english, they would talk about how we genuinely want reforms and that so long as the reforms occur, the united states, of course, would be welcome to keep the fifth fleet headquarters in bahrain. not when i spoke to them in persian, but when we googled their names in persian to call up what they had said to the iranian press, they talked about how the colonial vestige of the american satan must be expelled forthwith. so a slight difference in tone between what they were saying in english and what they were saying in persian. that's constantly a problem, of course, in the middle east as you know where interlocutors will be told one thing, and they will be told another thing subsequently. when it comes to television, most baa rainn of internet providers and the service -- the services with the fastest connection will edge google fiber rated number one by netflix. the speeds it says are 16% faster than number two verizon fios. comcast was number three on the list. here is the problem with google fiber. right now it is only available in kansas city, kansas. too bad, virtually nobody lives there. folks across the city in kansas city, missouri are out of luck for now. from the cnn money newsroom in new york, i'm ali velshi. i'm out. same time tomorrow. aids affects us all. even babies. chevron is working to stop mother-to-child transmission. our employees and their families are part of the fight. and we're winning. at chevron nigeria, we haven't had a reported case in 12 years. aids is strong. aids is strong. but we are stronger. and aids... ♪ aids is going to lose. aids is going to lose. ♪ how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. th is not the only working on this. google has also filed patent on this technology to target advertising based on how many people are in a room watching a tv set at any given time. no word on whether these patents have been granted. greg: it's so easy to make a comment on this, so i won't. jenna: neither will i come on that note. we are keeping a close eye on developments in north korea where leaders are planning to launch a long-range bottle rocket. what this means for the united states and our allies. also, a possible serial killer case is unfolding in the suspect in custody commit suicide behind bars. we will have the latest for you next begin. tomato, obviously. haha. there's more than that though, there's a kick to it. wahlalalalallala! smooth, but crisp. it's kind of like drinking a food that's a drink, or a drink that's a food, woooooh! [ male announcer ] taste it and describe the indescribable. could've had a v8. five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to y to this question. there is apple. there is facebook. there is google. >> uh-huh. >> and there is one more. and there's this competition. is that where the game is in the digital revolution? what happens between those four companies? >> well, i definitely think those four companies are sort of very much affecting the whole sort of digital landscape, but there's a lot of other companies out there that are making meaningful impacts. you guys had mark pink its onits on yesterday. >> you watched. >> yes, i watched. for gaming we're for music, and netflix for video. many other companies are doing many things as well. >> you saw the gangnam-style guy, getting reportedly $8 million from youtube, and the itunes it down load. what does that say about the future, do you think, of the music industry? they can get $8 million from youtube? >> i think it's great, because all of these sources of revenue just means we're going to get the music industry back to growth again. >> daniel thank you so much. >> thank you. >> you can visit cbs "this morning."com to subscribe to our spotify in both grades. california 12th graders were not tested. google has donated $5 million of advanced placement courses in math and science more than a dozen bay area schools. the owners to use that word will distribute the money through a competitive process. the process is known as the '80s them program. it encourages traditionally underrepresented female and minority students to demonstrate strong academic potential to explore science, technology, engineering and math, or stem, courses and consider careers in those areas. more than 139 schools around california are adults eligible to participate in the a piece stem access program. schools from alameda county san mateo county and santa clara can apply. the raiders >> the writer is taking on the denver broncos at the coliseum last night.broncos quarterback paid manning throughout his 30th touchdown pass of the season at the game's opening drive. they beat the raiders 26 to 13 last night. carson, threw one interception that thwarted a possible scoring chance the raiders. lost a fumble was set up a touchdown for the broncos of open its of this and that for the year. so google, the most searched things of the year. whitney houston was the biggest trending celebrity of the year. she passed away several months back. also, the justin bieber breakup with actress selena gomez was the most inquired about celebrity split. andy murray was the most searched olympian. "skyfall" topped the movie list. "gangnam" was the top trending song. and in fashion, british olympic kick designer stella mccartney was the top trending label of the year. >> can you believe it's going to be 2013 in a couple of weeks? this particular groom was going to the chapel to be married. the only problem, he was arrested and spent the night in jail. he was driving 100 miles per hour near valparaiso, indiana. officers saying he was switching lanes, almost totaled his jeep. they waited until he pulled into the church's parking lot. this as relatives were waiting and shouting at him to slow down before he performed a doughnut. he told police he was late for the wedding and just been released from jail earlier that day. didn't make the wedding. >>> and the fully loaded cheese b goldman sachs talking about avalanche basically they can continue to battle against google, the market share that some people have been speculating apple was likely to lose. cheryl: that is a stock to watch for the week and today we will see you in 14 minutes. just talking about the november unemployment rate, dropping 7.7%. 6,000 new jobs added. far better than expectations but behind that number is the fiscal cliff. if congress doesn't act jobless unemployment benefits will go from a 72 week maximum down to 27 weeks. could that force a spike in the jobless rate again for 2013? joining us is todd schoenberger of wells fargo, senior economist. i know you were not thrilled with the numbers that came out today but you also have the issue of unemployment benefits and what that does to the economy. are you worried? >> you bet i am worried. if we leap off of the fiscal cliff you are looking at a minimum of 500,000 jobs eliminated and i am not talking low-wage jobs. i am talking about high five digit to six digit jobs. that will impact the overall economy. not just in the united states, also , pizza has a lot of calories. you can find this information out on google. anybody who is dying like to try to knows about calories. what did they have to posted in the restaurant? you can easily get that information elsewhere. stuart: why is this requirement in obamacare? what has the killer accountant to do with my health care delivery system? >> this might be an attempt to preventive medicine. stuart: that's your rationale? that's all you have to say? >> a drop in the bucket to what you're asking me to put myself in the obama administration shoes. >> this is what makes my head off like a bottle rocket. we should be focusing on the fontana of the structure, not nanny state junk forcing restaurant chains to post calories. stuart: that's the best answer. i had been in restaurants where the calories in each dish is noted. i have altered what i order based on the calorie count. i found a useful. stuart: the information about the to being fattening given to you by the government? stuart: and just trying to raise some mild objections. let me escape. that includes private practice doctors -core processor. pre-cognitive intelligence with googlenow complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >>> welcome back. let's introduce your team this morning, will kaine, contributor for the blaze.com. mccabe is back with buzzfeed.com. roughing it, though, the newark mayor cory booker, talking about this blogging about his week-long food stamp challenge, living on the groceries he can buy for roughly $30 a week. a photo he tweeted, 17 cans of beans, 7 yams, two bags of frozen vegetables, what he can eat because that's what he can afford under the food stamp program. interesting to follow limb on this. >> cory is a fascinating guy. i like him. one conversation developing out of this i don't thing is right, soledad. you're not supposed to be able to live on subsidies. not supposed to be able to live on food stamps. it's a supplement. it's not designed to be your sole source of food and income. i think some will take the wrong message. >> for a grown man of his size to have to spend $30 and that's what you get in living in new like wilco nab in google executives that were on their black theories on whatever they are all socially networked and if progressives. if you're busy reading peep yours like "the wall street journal," you had pundits seem to islamists are late to this party. this whole process is being driven by young progressives who want a more moderate, tolerant, progressive, democratic future in defense of democracies we really mean it, which is liberal democracy. i didn't see it that way and lo and behold, just like the bolsheviks overtook the mensheviks in overtook lafayette , you begin to see the muslim brotherhood. then the brotherhood offers this promise that it was not going to detest the presidential election. you remember this promise? will not contest the presidential election. you already knew things were going in a very bad way when as soon as they saw the opportunity, they broke. then you have the election. either way here, i very politely disagree with rob satloff, for whom i have real respect and that i think he's somewhat -- [inaudible] -- dramatically underestimates the strength of i Excerpts 0 to 90 of about 108 results. Click for next 17 results (Some duplicates have been removed) Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)	https://archive.org/details/tv?time=20121205-20121213&q=google&fq=topic:%22syria%22	<urn:uuid:61669563-066b-4471-9718-f779fc7f3194>	en	0.969574	0.021604
A/N – This idea popped into my head while I was writing another story and would not let go. It is very hard to write one story when another is screaming for attention. Usually I have the endpoint planned out, but not in this case. Let's see where is goes… A/N- I own nothing of the characters and places you recognize in this story. Only the plot and additional characters are mine. A/N: Revision 1 – slight editorial changes or corrections Chapter 1 – Grief Lord Voldemort dropped to the ground exhausted. Deep wounds spilled blood onto his robes. His left arm ended in a stump at the elbow. The wound, cauterized by the heat of the spell that severed it did not bleed much, but still exceedingly painful. Voldemort grasped for his wand but realized it was missing. A pair of boots with tattered robes above them appeared in front of him. With an effort, Voldemort looked up at the young man who had defeated him. Hatred filled the dying Dark Lord as he saw the blazing emerald eyes of his opponent. Even though his hate, Voldemort could feel his life and magic slipping away. The dying Dark Lord recognized his own wand in the hand of his rival. The attack had been implemented perfectly. Potter's blood-traitor friend Weasley and the mudblood Granger had been captured two weeks prior. Voldemort and his Death Eaters allowed the traitor Snape to warn of an attack on Hogsmead. The arriving Aurors and Order members found Voldemort with all of his Death Eaters and allies waiting for them. Voldemort presented the battered, violated and maimed bodies of Potter's friends. Draco Malfoy cast an Imperious Curse on Weasley. The cursed redhead teen proceeded to rip his girlfriend to pieces with a dark curse. Then young Malfoy released Ron to the reality of what he had done. They allowed him to live just long enough for the grief and pain to fully set in. As planned, Potter lost control and started the battle. His Death Eaters and allies had driven the damned Order and Aurors back and left just their Master and his opponent to fight. The battle had raged all over the grounds of Hogwarts. The castle itself lay in ruins, only the Astronomy tower still standing. The bodies of Death Eaters and their opponents filled the grounds. Ginny Weasley attempted to support Harry after Voldemort blasted him to the ground with an ancient curse. She momentarily distracted Voldemort and allowed Harry to recover his wand. As she concentrated on Voldemort, she did not see the troll approach her from behind and smash her into the ground with a club. Harry Potter could only watch in stunned disbelief as his girlfriend was killed instantly while defending his life. Voldemort started to laugh at the pain and despair on the young man's face. Harry turned to face his life-long nemesis. Voldemort stopped laughing as the hero of Light started to glow. Suddenly a blinding flash and a wall of force pulsed out from Harry. Lord Voldemort just had time to erect his strongest shield before the power washed over him. The troll was thrown to the ground with such force that it shattered all of the bones in its body. Voldemort avoided most of the magical force behind his shield. Even his shields failed under that onslaught, leaving him defenseless, battered and broken. "It seems the Prophecy favored you, Potter. But you won't enjoy your victory!" the dying Dark Lord grasped. It was not fair! After all of his studies and sacrifices, defeat by this whelp was not fair! Harry Potter, the Boy-Who-Lived, the Chosen One, stood over the broken body of the man who killed everyone that he had ever loved. His parents, Sirius, Remus, all the Weasleys, Hermione, and Dumbledore all died because of this twisted thing before him. Harry looked to where Ginny had fallen. They had established a bond over the last year, linking their magical energies. The backlash from her death feed the magical explosion that brought the battle and war to an end. "Why? Why did you have to do this?" the anguished question came from Harry's dry throat. Voldemort gasped out a chuckle. "Why?" he hissed. "I learned the world is never fair. The strong take from the weak. To the victor goes the spoils." Harry raised his wand with tears running down his cheeks and pointed it at the fallen Dark Lord. "I learned the same lesson. The world is not fair, but you still have to try. REDUCTO!" The spell smashed into Voldemort's head, crushing it. The Second War was over. (Six months later) The hero of the wizarding world slumped over the table in his kitchen smelling of a great deal of fire whiskey. The last six months had been the worst of Harry's life. Harry had no reason left to live. Today was Harry's 18th birthday, a birthday without a single person to share it with him. They were all gone. Harry settled into a deep depression with no one to pull him out. At times, he pulled his wand out and pointed it at himself. The magical community held a weeklong celebration over the final death of Voldemort and the end of the war. Everyone wanted to thank Harry for ending the threat. Almost all of the Ministry's Aurors and the Order of the Phoenix members died during the battle. Yet that did not seem to matter to most of the witches and wizards. They only cared that the Chosen One had ended their fear. Many of the surviving members of the Ministry were pushing Harry to take the Minister of Magic position. Harry sensed they did not want him to lead them, but a figurehead to support their own positions. Didn't they realize that Harry never wanted to be a public person? All he wanted was to be left alone! After the first week, Harry had taken to hiding in Hagrid's old hut on the Hogwart's grounds. The school itself was unlivable. The castle's damage was too significant to be safe. The Ministry was openly debating on permanently closing the school and moving it to a more convenient and modern location. The thought of being one of the few surviving members of the final Hogwarts graduates depressed Harry even further. Harry suddenly awoke at a sudden noise and sluggishly raised his head to squint about the room. Harry noticed a blurry figure of a man sitting at the table across from him. Harry fumbled for his glasses and placed them on his face. Again, he squinted at the figure and was shocked. "Professor Dumbledore?" The figure stood up and grabbed Harry by the back of his dirty shirt. "Stupid boy. You are disgusting." Harry was dazed and confused as the figure dragged him out of the hut. What was Dumbledore doing here? He died during Harry's sixth year two years ago! How could he be here? The thoughts stumbled around Harry's drunken brain in a chaotic dance. The dance suddenly ended in a freezing wet shock. Suddenly Harry could not breathe! He was underwater! He was drowning! Vainly Harry struggled against the grip that held him by the neck in the rain barrel outside the hut. The pressure suddenly lessened allowing Harry to push himself up and get some air. "WHAT DO YOU…" Harry's shout was ended by another forced plunge into the barrel. After a seeming eternity, Harry was again released from the grip. Harry pushed himself away from the barrel, falling hard onto the packed earth. Harry struggled to take deep breaths and wipe the water away from his face. A mug was thrust in front of his face and Harry heard a gruff but familiar sounding voice tell him to drink it. Harry grasped the mug and drank the contents in a single shot. "Great Merlin!" Harry swore, "That stuff is horrible!" However, between the dunking and the potion, Harry felt his head clearing rapidly after his three-week bender. Harry looked up at this attacker again. At first glance, Harry could see an immediate resemblance to his former Headmaster. Both of them were tall with long white beards. This person did not have the Headmaster's signature twinkle. Harry saw anger in his eyes. A fire that refused to be put out. "Who are you?" Harry asked The man extended a hand to the sodden young man sitting on the ground in front of him. Harry took his hand and the man pulled Harry up. "I am Aberforth Dumbledore. You knew my idiot, goody-two shoes older brother." Harry shook his head to clear his thoughts. "You are Professor Dumbledore's brother? He mentioned you." The man grunted, "Probably the damn story about the goat. Did he mention that he spiked my butterbeer with an altered love potion and put a glamour on the goat? I thought it was my wife." Harry chuckled weakly at the thought of Professor Dumbledore playing a prank on his brother like that. Small as it was, it was the first feeling of true humor Harry had felt since Ron and Hermione disappeared. Harry followed Aberforth back into the hut. They took their seats around the table. Harry pushed the mostly empty bottle of fire whiskey away. It contained only enough for a single shot, yet the smell suddenly turned Harry's stomach. "You have been hard to find, boy," Aberforth said. "I tried to be. I couldn't take the celebrations anymore," was his reply. "I was afraid I would only find a body." Harry merely grunted noncommittally to this comment. "Your scar has faded a lot. We need to move quickly." Aberforth said. Harry was confused. "What do you mean we have to move quickly? Let the damn scar go away. I can hide better that way." Aberforth shook his head. "No we need it. I have been looking for you for a month." The old wizard leaned forward in his chair. "Would you like a chance to set this right?" "What do you mean? How?" Harry asked. "I mean save my brother, your parents, everyone!" Aberforth said. Harry was stunned. Save everyone? How? They were dead. Aberforth smiled a sly, creepy smile. "We are going to steal a page out of Voldemort's own book, boy. We are going to kill him as an infant." Now Harry was really shocked. For the first time since the battle, Harry felt his brain fully engage. "How can we do that? "Simple, go back to when he was born and kill him." Harry sat back in his chair. "We can't travel in time." "I have a way. I can supercharge a TimeTurner, but it has a cost," Aberforth said. Harry merely raised an eye. "The first is you take the trip back but you are stuck there for a while." "What do you mean a while?" Harry asked. "Ten to twelve years. The magic needs to recharge in the TimeTurner." Harry started to feel a hunger in him. Ten years to save everyone he loved? No problem. Harry waved off the issue. "What is the other problem?" Aberforth exhaled, "This is a weird area of magic. There is a large risk. No one has ever gone back that far. When you return the world might be worse off then it is today. Also you can have unintended consequences. Things that seem unrelated are changed by what you did. When you return you will have the memories of this timeline but probably not of the new one. You would in effect be killing another version of you." "Why me?" Harry asked. "Why can't you do this?" "Your scar, boy. It links you to Voldemort. The magic can use that to allow you to appear in his area when you go back. Without the scar, you would have to search all of England to find him. Also, I am already there. My magical signature would be duplicated. Anytime someone sent me an owl there would be a 50-50 chance on who it would go to. The secret would not last long." The old wizard scowled, "I did not always like the old fart, but he was my older brother. Family I want him back." Harry considered this. This was a chance to prevent Voldemort from ever becoming a danger to anyone. Harry felt a slight pang about killing an infant but it also seemed that turn about was fair play. After all, Voldemort tried to kill him as a one year-old. The lives it would save made this more then fair. After some of the things Harry accepted during the war, this seemed simple. Harry looked up at the waiting Aberforth Dumbledore. "When do we start?" The two wizards planned long into the night. They would only have one shot at doing this. If they succeeded, they could alter the course of history forever. Harry agreed to meet Aberforth the next day near the Shrieking Shack. Aberforth had informed Harry he would reappear in the exact physical location he left their timeline. The Shack would not exist when Voldemort was born so there should be no one around to witness Harry's arrival. In addition, Aberforth remembered that the location was a meadow so there would be no trees or other items for Harry to hit on his arrival. Harry spent the last twenty-four hours preparing for his mission. During a trip to Gringotts, Harry removed several million Galleons from his family vaults. Since He would be stuck in the past for twelve years, he would need the money. Harry also visited many of the shops in Diagon Alley. Harry purchased a new trunk with special Engorgement charms to allow it hold much more then it should without getting heavy. It was also charmed to appear twenty-years out of date and worn. Harry filled the trunk with old-style Muggle and wizard clothing. He casually told the clerks they were for a themed-costume party. Finally, Harry also filled the trunk with a variety of books on magical topics, Muggle and wizard history and law and other topics that caught his interest. Apparating back to Hagrid's hut, Harry also loaded a variety of his personal items. His Battle Robes that Professor Dumbledore gave him, his father's invisibility cloak, the Marauders' Map to name a few. Once he was ready, Harry shrank his trunk and placed it into his pocket. Dressed in old-style Muggle clothes, he walked to the Shack to meet Aberforth. The old wizard was already preparing for the ritual to supercharge the TimeTurner. Harry watched as the old wizard drew a variety of ancient runes on the ground over a two-hour period. Finally, he signaled he was ready. Harry stepped into the center of the Runes and picked up the TimeTuner. Aberforth said, "Remember, you will be in the past for exactly twelve years. At twelve years to the second, the magic will snap you back to this location. You can't stop it or hurry it up." At Harry's nod he continued, "The TimeTurner will not appear with you in the past. To prevent it from being lost or damaged it will exist astrally until it recharges. Then it will automatically reactivate and bring you back." Aberforth looked at Harry and said, "Good luck. Don't let us down." Harry nodded and said, "I won't. Activate the spell. Then Harry Potter, The boy-who-lived, the Chosen One, disappeared. Harry involuntarily blinked as he activated the Time-Turner. It was an automatic reaction to the anticipated results of the activation. Harry did not feel anything with the activation, so he opened his eyes to see what had gone wrong. He found that Aberforth and the Shack were gone. Harry was standing in a familiar field with the rooftops of Hogsmeade visible over the nearby trees. Harry looked around carefully, but did not see anyone nearby. Harry started to make his way to the village of Hogsmeade. Harry found that the village of Hogsmeade had not changed much over the last fifty years on the main street. The Three Broom Sticks looked the same. A couple of the smaller shops were different but nothing much else was different. Off the main street, a fair amount of construction was underway. A number of new houses (old to Harry) were being built. Harry did a quick tour through the village and then walked into the Three Broomsticks. The décor of the Broomsticks had changed somewhat to Harry. It seemed quant and old-fashioned. Harry figured he would get used to the changes in due time. Harry approached the bar where an old wizard was reading The Daily Prophet. "Good morning, sir," the barkeep welcomed Harry. "May I get you something on this fine afternoon?" Harry ordered a light lunch and inquired about a copy of today's Prophet. The barkeep handed a copy of the wizarding paper to Harry and invited Harry to sit at the bar as his lunch was prepared. Harry sat down and opened the paper. Harry was glad he sat down when he saw the date on the front page of the paper. It was June 16, 1934! Harry missed his target date by seven years! Somewhere in London was a seven-year-old future Dark Lord. Things had just become much more complicated for Harry. The Prophet contained an unusually high mix of Muggle news. The paper was covered quite a bit about activities going on in Germany. As Harry read on he had to fight to contain a groan. Hermione would have smacked him for coming here without doing the proper research first! The Nazi party was in control of Germany now and if Harry remembered his long-ago Muggle history lessons then the build up to World War II would be starting in the next couple of years with the war starting in September 1939. Harry just ended up back in the time preceding the Second World War and he would have to live through it! Harry now realized why the Prophet was reporting on the tensions mounting between Britain and Germany. The Dark Lord Grindelward was a major ally of Hitler. Hitler was fascinated by magic. Grindelward used the Nazi leader as his dupe to attack his magical opponents. The Diagon Alley was a targeted bombing area of London during the Battle of Britain. Harry started a small conversation with the barkeep. Harry told the barkeep, named Allen, that he lived in London and was looking to move out away from the city. The barkeep mentioned that the new houses were being sold out of a small reality office down the street. Harry said he would consider it and finished his lunch. Harry walked out of the Three Broomsticks and looked up towards Hogwarts. This area had been Harry's true home since he was eleven. If Harry was stuck here for the next 10 to 12 years, this was a better place then most to make his home. Harry walked through the new houses. Since Harry know knew it was a Saturday and no work would be going on. Harry looked around the new construction and was amazed at the methods of magic being used. Almost all of the magic Harry knew dealt with DADA or being an Auror. These house built by magic seemed more like they were grown then built. Harry heard footsteps approaching from behind and controlled his instinct to go into a defensive stance. "May I help you, sir?" a light toned, woman's voice asked. Harry turned around casually and received another shock of the day. Standing there was Ginny! Harry's heart stopped. "Are you okay, sir? Are you interested in buying a house?" Harry shut his jaw and realized this was not Ginny. Although the woman looked a great deal like Ginny, this was not her. Harry guessed the witch was twenty-five or so. Short, like Ginny, the witch had strawberry blonde hair, not the Weasley red. "I am sorry," Harry stammered. "I thought you were someone else for I moment. Excuse me. I am James Evans and yes I am interested in buying one of these houses." The young witch smiled. "It is nice to meet you, Mr. Evans. I am Anne Prewett." Harry wondered if today could get any more screwed up. This was not Ginny standing in front of him, but Harry was willing to bet that it was her grandmother! Harry seemed to remember that Molly Weasley's maiden name was Prewett. Harry briefly wondered if someone out there was having fun making his life more complicated. (A/N: Yes, as a matter of fact, I am!) Noticing a wedding ring Harry replied, "I t nice to meet you also, Mrs. Prewett. Can you tell me about these houses?" Harry spent the next two hours discussing the houses and the different options available. Harry found that Anne Prewitt reminded him very strongly of Molly Weasley. If she was not Molly's mother, then there was a very good chance she was a future aunt. She did not treat Harry like an eighteen year-old. Harry figured the haunted look in his eyes and the strain of the last several months added years to his appearance. Harry told Anne his preplanned story about being raised in a small magical settlement in Australia. He figured this would help cover any questions about accent or modern slang that slipped out. Harry also alluded to time spent in some type of conflict. This would help with any issues with his weary appearance and dark moods. Harry had to hold in a smile when the house prices were discussed. Harry was used to prices in the 1990's. Prices in the 1930's seemed incredibly low. Harry had withdrawn almost all of the Galleons from his family account. It was enough to live very comfortably in the 1990's for his entire life. At these prices, it was enough for several lifetimes. Harry selected a pleasant four-bedroom cottage on the outskirts of the village. The house came with the most modern home charms (for the 1930's). Harry figured he could update the charms after he moved in and warded the house. Harry would also have to go shopping for clothing and furniture. He would take a trip to Diagon Alley in the morning to fill those needs. Harry quickly finished his transaction to purchase the house. Mrs. Prewitt efficiently handled her paperwork. Since Harry did not yet have a vault he would have to visit Gringotts in the morning to open a vault and transfer the Galleons to pay for the house. Saying good-bye to Mrs. Prewitt, Harry apparated to the Leaky Cauldron to rent a room for the night. The next morning Harry ate breakfast in the Leaky Caldron. It seemed odd to Harry that Tom the Barkeep was not in the taproom. Harry smirked at his own surprise when he realized that Tom was probably not even born yet. The pub was as dark and dingy as ever. Harry considered the fact it had not changed in fifty years. After eating, Harry walked out into Diagon Alley. Harry gapped at the appearance of the alley. It was packed! Harry had never seen so many witches and wizards in one place before. There was an air of lightness and happiness Harry never felt before in the Alley. The constant Death Eater threat gave the Alley of Harry's time a grim mood. Looking at the number of people in the Alley, Harry also wondered how severely the deaths fighting the Dark Lords had depleted the English Wizarding gene pool. Making his way to Gringotts, Harry waited in line to open a new vault. After standing in line for an hour, Harry reached the goblin. "What do you want?" the goblin grunted. "Good morning. My name is James Evans. I would like to do business with you to enrich both of us. May I ask your name, sir?" The goblin's expression was shocked. The wizard's polite response was highly unusual. "Grintott is my name. What business would you like to conduct?" "I would like to open a vault, Mr. Grintott. It will have to be one of your larger vaults." The goblin's eyes again got bigger. A wealthy wizard was being polite? "Please step into my office. We will conduct our business in privacy." The goblin hopped off the stool he stood on and led Harry into an office. Another goblin appeared at the desk to replace the departing Grintott. Once seated in the office, Grintott asked, "How large a deposit will you be making? "19,634,254 Galleons," Harry answered. The goblin's face took on a gobsmacked expression. A completely unknown wizard wanted to deposit that much money? Who was this wizard, the goblin wondered. Grintott summoned the paperwork and completed it in short order. Harry's only point of nervousness was when he was asked to provide five drops of blood for identification purposes. Harry knew his grandparents were alive now. It was a risk that his Potter blood would cause a problem. Fortunately, it did not. If a Potter were to use their blood to search for a any vault they had access to, Harry would have to be dead first. Similarly, Harry could not access the Potter Family vault unless his grandparents and father were also dead. Since that would really mess with history, Harry did not want that to happen. Harry was amazed then how quickly the rest of his transactions were completed. Within 30 minutes, the vault was setup, a transfer for the cottage was arranged and a spending account was set up. The goblins were extremely polite in their care of Harry. Harry made Grintott his account manager. Harry taxed his spending account heavily during the rest of his trip through Diagon Alley. Furniture for the four bedrooms, the dining room, kitchen and living room were all purchased. Harry also bought all of the household goods he would need such as sheets, plates, and silverware. Harry figured if he was going to be stuck in this time for ten years, he might as well be comfortable. Harry also visited Flourish and Botts for a collection of books for his study. Harry had a great many books in his trunk but some could not be displayed since they had not been published yet. Harry also bought a "new" broom and an owl. Harry knew he could not bring his Firebolt out of his trunk very often so he would need a different broom for everyday flying. Harry felt a particular pain replacing Hedwig. Harry's snowy white owl had been killed a week before Harry's final showdown with Voldemort. Draco Malfoy had not done this to draw Harry out, simply to cause pain to another creature. With his purchases shrunk into bags, Harry returned to his new cottage in Hogsmeade. The cottage recognized the change in ownership and allowed his immediate access to the house. Harry placed his furniture in its appropriate place and enlarged all of it. A few hours later, Harry collapsed onto his new couch. Even with magic, setting up a new house from scratch was very hard work. All of the furniture was in place and everything was in its place. Darkness had fallen outside. Hogsmeade was lit up in the very picture of domestic tranquility. The house itself seemed a bit cold. There were no pictures. No reminders of things from the past. Harry sat on the couch and realized for the first time in his life he had a home off his own. This house and everything in it was his. No Death Eaters were looking for him. No one knew him as The-Boy-Who's-Name-Must-Be-Capitalized-and-Hyphenated. He was completely normal. He had everything he had ever wished for growing up. Harry Potter felt his emotions clench. Tears built inside his eyes as an ache gripped his heart. Harry's wish had been granted. It only cost him his parents, Sirius, Ginny, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Luna, the rest of the Weasleys and everyone else in his life that ever cared for Harry as a person and not a title. Something inside Harry broke. Curling up into a fetal position, Harry cried. He cried for the deaths of everyone he had ever loved. Harry cried for the death of 85 of the student body of Hogwarts. Harry cried for the deaths of almost all of the members of the Order of the Phoenix and the Ministry's Auror Corps. In short, Harry cried for the death of his world. Harry had suffered through grief after the final confrontation with Voldemort. Everywhere Harry looked, he was reminded of the price he paid for victory. However, here is the warm, snug cottage with normalcy all around him; Harry could not hold it anymore. A lifetime's worth of pain released at once. The young man with the scarring of an eighty year-old man wept uncontrollably. Outside a sudden storm shook the village of Hogsmeade. Thunder crashed overhead in an unpredicted storm that came out of nowhere. Many Hogwarts students ran for cover on the Astronomy tower as sudden gusts and strong rains swept the castle. The violence of the storm rattled the windows of the ancient school. Sitting in his office, Transfiguration Professor Albus Dumbledore watched the storm outside his window. Already seen as the most powerful wizard seen in several generations, Dumbledore could feel the magic flowing through the storm. The professor leaned back in his chair to consider the implications of the storm outside. After an eternity of tears and pain, Harry passed into unconsciousness. With his sleep, the storm passed also. Emotionally and physically exhausted, Harry slept without dreams for the first time in a long time. It would be over thirty-six hours before he would wake again. Harry decided to start searching Muggle London the following week. Harry spent four days allowing himself to recover from the incredible release of emotions his first night in his house. Harry forced himself up the first afternoon after waking up to take a shower and change into his new period clothes. Then he collapsed onto his bed for the remainder of the day. The next couple of days were made with baby steps. Harry started taking small walks through Hogsmeade and shopping in the stores. Harry purchased a variety of small objects to brighten up his home. Many of the shop keeps wondered about the quiet dark haired wizard shopping alone with a sad smile on his face. The truth was, Harry did not feel alone. As he shopped, he heard the ghost voices of Ginny, Ron and Hermione accompanying him. He heard Ginny getting excited over cute ornaments and decorations. He heard Hermione exhorting him to go by more books to study up on the time he now found himself. Ron wanted to look at the Quidditch supplies and the "antiques" they offered for sale in Quality Quidditch Supplies. So the quiet wizard with the sad smile was not really alone. When you have friends that you have laughed and fought with, who loved you and died for you, you are never really ever alone again. Harry started his search on Monday morning. Harry knew that Tom Riddle was left in a Muggle orphanage in London at his birth. The future Dark Lord was know around seven years old. Although Harry did not like the idea, his mission had not changed. Kill the Dark Lord before he could begin his assent into power. Harry found there were sixteen orphanages in London. Since Dumbledore collected the Horcrux stored in the orphanage alone, Harry did not really know which orphanage Riddle would be found at. So Harry resigned himself to searching them all. Time was not really a concern. He would still be stuck in this time for years. Three days of searching and Harry still had not found any sign of Riddle. Harry was amazed about the number of orphanages and the amount of children each one held. Each one was bigger the Hogwarts with a much smaller staff and budget. Harry stopped in a small pub for fish and chips. He planned to visit two more orphanages that are possible candidates this afternoon. Harry wanted to get this task out of the way and then spend the next ten or so years in a quiet life. Leaving the pub, Harry passed an alley and noticed a number of boys gathered towards the other end. They were cheering and excited about something. They were calling out taunts at someone that Harry could not see. Flashbacks to Dudley and his gang or Slytherins came to Harry's mind. A bad feeling went though Harry as a strong suspicion ran through his head. Hermione called it Harry's "Saving People Thing". Harry was constitutionally incapable of turning his back on someone he saw in need. Harry turned down the alley until he was just behind the boys. Harry could see two teenage boys kicking something on the ground to the cheers of the others. "What is going on here?" Harry yelled. The boys parted and one of the kickers yelled back, "This doesn't concern you. Go away!" Harry could now see a young boy curled up on the ground. He looked at the speaker and quietly but firmly said, "I am taking the boy with me." "No way! He is a freak! We are going to teach him a lesson!" At these words of defiance, the surrounding boys joined in jeering at Harry. The word freak galvanized Harry and raised his anger. His anger caused his magic to spill into his eyes. "I will take the boy with me. Now leave this alley." The quiet words carried the threat, no, the promise of swift and painful retribution if he were ignored. Without really understanding why, the boys started to melt away out of the alley. Harry walked over to the battered form on the ground. Pulling out a kerchief to wipe the blood away, Harry spoke in quiet, comforting tones. "Relax, no one else is going to hurt you. You are safe." A small voice gasped back with a sob, "They always hurt me. They will until I am able to hurt them back. I will show them!" "Well, they won't hurt you anymore today. Let me check you out. Just relax." Harry did a brief examination of the boy as Madam Pomfrey had taught him and realized the boy probably had a dislocated shoulder and possibly two broken ribs. "We need to get you to a hospital. I am going to lift you up carefully and take you there. Can you tell me your name? The little boy looked up at Harry for the first time. Green eyes met brown as the boy said, "My name is Tommy Riddle." "My name is Tommy Riddle." Harry's world rocked with those simple words. Could this beaten young boy be the future Dark Lord and mass murderer? How simple would it be to kill the boy now and complete his mission? So many deaths would be prevented by killing this one little boy. Would it be right to kill this boy? It was so simple sitting in the Shrieking Shack and discussing killing the infant Riddle. It was so impersonal, so theoretical. Kill one innocent baby. Perform one evil act to prevent thousands. Morally, Harry felt the pull of what was right in both directions. Lord Voldemort was responsible for the deaths of thousands, including Harry's parents, Ginny, Ron, Hermione, the rest of the Weasleys and Sirius. Tom Riddle killed several people before he even left Hogwarts. Yet, Tommy Riddle had not killed anyone. Harry subtly drew his wand. "Close your eyes." Harry placed his left hand over the boy's eyes. Then he cast, "Legilems" Harry viewed the images from Tommy's mind. Tommy had been singled out at an early age as a "freak". Harry watched a memory of a young boy talking to a small garden snake. Older boys teased the young boy and one boy stepped on the snake's head to kill it in front of the small boy. Tommy's tears only spurred them on. Harry pulled back and observed Tommy's magical core. As a seven year-old, it only appeared the size of a golf ball. Voldemort's seemed to be the size of a beach ball. Voldemort's core seemed to be made of black tar, dark and rough. Tommy's core seemed pure. A few streaks of darkness marked the trauma of the abuse, but it seemed to only be on the surface. Tommy Riddle was not infected by the insanity Voldemort exhibited during both of his wars against the wizarding and Muggle worlds. Harry considered what this meant. Removed from the beatings and teasing of the orphanage, would Tommy Riddle develop into a responsible, caring individual? Or would the madness raise up on its own as he aged? Harry thought about the memories Dumbledore showed him during his Sixth year. The interbreeding of previous generations caused his grandfather and uncle to behave in bizarre fashions. Convinced of their superiority due to descent from Slytherin, the Gaunt family lost touch with reality. His mother did not seem to be entirely sane either. Was her use of a love potion on Tom Riddle, Sr. a sign of insanity or total desperation to escape the house of her family? Was their insanity inherited or reinforced by their beliefs? Harry started to get a headache. Hermione would be able to spout a dozen different psychological theories and research. Harry realized he did not have a clue. Harry's expertise had always been on the practical, not the theoretical side of knowledge. Harry decided that he did not have enough information at this point to make a proper decision. He could not kill an innocent boy when it may not be necessary. If Harry moved Tommy Riddle to another environment, would his life's path change? Harry needed time to think. A decision could not be made now. Harry removed his hand and then lifted the boy in his arms. "Relax, Tommy. I will get you fixed up in no time." A quiet pop sounded in the alley. The two people in the alley had disappeared. Five minutes later, ten boys from the orphanage returned after building up their courage. They really did not understand by they had left their game of Tommy-Taunting behind because of a strange boy. To their surprise, the alley was empty. They looked at each other and wondered the same thought. 'No one came out of the alley, so where did they go?' Harry and Tommy appeared with a quiet pop in the Apparation Zone in St. Mungo's Hospital. Harry gently set the boy down on a nearby gurney. A medi-witch approached quickly. "What happened to this boy?" "I found a bunch of boys beating him up in London. I scared them off and brought him here." The witch started to scan the boy with her wand. While she was doing that, she asked, "Are you his father? What was he doing wandering around Muggle London on his own?" Harry shook his head but kept watching. "I am not his father. I stumbled on the scene. I believe he lives in a Muggle orphanage in the area." "Hmm, he seems to have two cracked ribs, one broken one, and a slight concussion. He is lucky you came along. I will call some orderlies to carry him into the treatment room." Harry pulled out his wand. "If you would allow me." Harry cast the Levitation Charm and guided the gurney into the treatment room. The medi-witch's eyes grew large at Harry's casual display. Once in the treatment room, the medi-witch gently woke the boy. "Drink this potion, dear. It will help with the pain." Tommy slowly raised his head to drink the offered potion. From the expression on his face, he felt about healing potion's taste the same way Harry did. Harry watched as the medi-witch performed a more thorough examination on Tommy. Tommy lay with his eyes closed, ignoring her efforts. Harry noticed that the medi-witch was not much older then he was. 'She must have just graduated,' Harry thought. Harry also noticed that she was a very attractive woman. Standing around five and a half feet tall she had long blond hair that was up in a bun. While that bun was very functional, it was styled in a alluring way. It was the first time Harry had noticed a woman since Ginny's death. After Tommy fell back to sleep, the medi-witch turned to Harry. "We will need you to stay around for a bit to answer some questions. Do you know his name?" Harry sighed internally. He really did not want to be officially noticed by the Ministry. "He told me his name is Tommy Riddle. My name is James Evans." "It is nice to meet you Mr. Evans. I am Sarah Underhill." She picked up a clipboard and started filling out forms. "Do you know who his parents are and how to contact them?" 'Yes,' thought Harry. "No, I believe at least his mother is dead. As I said, I just happened onto the scene." The young witch looked at Harry over his clipboard. "Where are you from, Mr. Evans?" Harry gave his cover story about just arriving in England. "I recently purchased a cottage in Hogsmeade." The medi-witch finished filling out her form. She cast a charm on Tommy, then turned back to her clipboard with a sigh. "He is a half-blood." "Is that a problem?" Harry asked in a neutral tone. His tone must not have been neutral enough. The medi-witch raised her eyes to look at Harry. "Not to me. However, if he was a pureblood it we could track down family members. Also the Ministry will not pay for his treatment. I don't know how he will be able to pay his bill." "Only purebloods get free service?" Harry asked. Harry felt his anger rising at the witch's nod. Was it the same in his own time? He had never been billed but was that because of his Chosen One status? "Place my name down to pay for his treatment. I brought him in. Coming here was not his decision. He would have gone to a Muggle hospital. I don't believe he knows about magic right now." The medi-witch looked at Harry with surprise in her eyes. (Harry noticed she had beautiful blue eyes.) "Do you realize that means you have just made yourself his magical guardian?" Harry felt his jaw drop. "I am his what?" "His magical guardian. You brought a Muggle-raised child into the magical world. Since he has no parents in our world, you just legally accepted responsibility for his magical well-being." 'Bugger me,' Harry thought. This was getting too complex. First he saves the future Voldemort from a beating at the hands of his fellow orphans. Now he just accidentally made himself Riddle's guardian! "What does that mean?" Harry asked. "You accept responsibility for his magical education and behavior until he is seventeen. Didn't you know?" "No, I didn't." Harry sat back in his chair and thought about the situation he found himself in. Being Tommy Riddle's guardian would enable him to observe the boy for any signs of the Darkness that led to Voldemort. If Harry did see any signs it would allow him to act without interference from anyone. Harry looked up at the beautiful medi-witch that was watching him. "I guess I will have to stick around then and wait until he wakes up. Merlin knows how he is going to respond to all of this!" The young witch smiled at Harry. "I think you are doing a good thing, Mr. Evans." Harry really enjoyed her smile. Harry looked up from the Daily Prophet and noticed that Tommy was waking up. Setting his paper aside, Harry steeled himself and walked over to the bed. "Good afternoon, Tommy. How are you feeling?" The boy looked at Harry with a guarded expression. "I am fine, sir. Where am I?" "Do you remember what happened to you?" Harry asked, avoiding Tommy's question. Tommy nodded, "Charles and his gang caught me. They hurt me." "Were you doing something wrong?" Tommy looked down with downcast eyes. "I stole some food, sir." Harry said, "Look at me, Tommy." Tommy looked up. "Why did you steal the food?" "Because they locked me in a closet for a day! I was really hungry! I know I broke the rules! I am sorry! Please don't punish me!" This hurt Harry. Flashbacks to his own childhood with the Dursleys came unbidden to his mind. Harry crouched down to be eyelevel with the seven year-old. "No one is going to punish you, Tommy. You are in a hospital. I brought you here because you were hurt." Tommy looked at Harry in surprise. "You saved me?" Harry nodded. Tommy's innocent expression of surprise that an adult would take his side was painful to see. "Tommy, I need to tell you some things that will surprise you. Do you believe in magic?" "No, sir. They don't let us read that stuff in the orphanage." "Tommy, I want to tell you that magic is real. Some people can use it to do wondrous things. These people are wizards and witches. This is a hospital for magical people. You and I are part of that." Tommy's face got suspicious. "Are you telling me the truth?" Harry realized that was almost the same question that 11 year-old Tom Riddle asked Dumbledore, but without the magical push behind it. "Yes, Tommy, I am. Have you ever had something weird happen that you couldn't explain?" Tommy nodded. "I can talk to snakes. The others don't like that. They call me 'freak'". Harry smiled, "I can talk to snakes also. It is called Parseltongue. Not many wizards have that ability. When I was a little boy, my cousin was chasing me. He was a bully. I suddenly found myself standing on the roof of my school." Tommy giggled at the image. "Can you show me some magic?" Harry pulled out his wand and pointed it at Tommy. Harry cast a Levitation Charm and lifted the shocked seven-year-old over the bed. Harry smiled at the expression on his face. "I can do that?" he asked after Harry set him back into the bed. "Yes, after going to a special school for magic." "Wow, that would be neat! How do I go to the school?" Harry sat down and explained to Tommy about going to Hogwarts after he turned eleven and that Harry was now his magical guardian. Tommy seemed shocked that Harry was responsible for him. "No one ever cared about me. My mother left me by dying when I was born. I don't know who my father was. Why do you care?" "Magical law says that since I brought you into our world, I am responsible for you. Normally you would have been informed when you were accepted into Hogwarts. As an orphan, the headmaster would have been your magical guardian." Tommy sat and quietly considered all that he had been told. After several minutes he asked, "Would I live with you?" Harry felt a bit sick at that question. His soul was torn. His head saw the future Dark Lord but his heart heard the same cry he made to Sirius. Harry asked, "Would you want to? You can still stay at the orphanage." Tommy looked at Harry with an expression of hatred. "I hate that place! They are mean! I hate them!" Harry felt Tommy's magic flexing with his surge of emotions. Harry made a quick decision. "Relax, Tommy. I won't make you go back there. You can live with me." Tommy's face lit up with relief over the news he would not be going back to the orphanage. Tommy started firing a barrage of questions at Harry about where he lived and what it was like to use magic. Although Harry still felt concern over the fate of the boy, for right now, he knew he had made the right choice.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3155057/1/Altered-Destinies	<urn:uuid:33976495-3a13-485b-a53b-bf1b8cbbbfaf>	en	0.987507	0.200018
Okay, I am pretty excited to be finally writing a GrayLu fanfic! (Crying in the background lolz) The reason I wasn't able to write one before was because I was persuaded by a friend to practice writing my fanfics through the use of different characters and gain experience after I give it my best shot. I am not really a fan of NaLu but I think they are adorable. :" sigh So please bear with me and my amateur talent in writing. Please, kindly REVIEW and do whatever it takes to tell me how to improve my writing! I love hearing them so that I can improve. So here is chapter one of " The Lucky Ones" "Layla, have you read the reports that I gave you last week? Remember soon enough you will inherit all of my fortune and I want you to do your best and don't disappoint me." Layla's father warned her as he paced around the wide room which consists of a study table and it's walls were painted with peach pale colors that made it gloomy to the eyes. "Yes, father." The young lady answered In her most respectful tone. Layla Heartfilia was the daughter of one of the most influential and richest man in the whole kingdom of Fiore. Her mother died giving birth to her and didn't have memories of her. Whenever she would ask her father to talk about her mother he would say the same thing that the past did not matter and that everyone was supposed to look forward to the future. Well this was in the past. As of right now Layla Heartfilia was remembering the past when her father used to live. She was disowned by her father for she ran away with Jude who she was in love with. Her father was opposed to idea of getting married with a nobody. Layla sighed as she remembered the times when her father lived and what her life used to be. She felt bad for leaving father and that the cause of his death was because she selfishly only thought about her happiness and crushed his father's heart. But that was all in the past the golden-haired maiden assured herself. "Layla! Would you please get the hell out of there? And bring me my beer from the fridge." An annoyed voice commanded from the other room. "Yes, dear." Was all Layla replied. She will not cry even though she was treated like trash by her husband. She married Jude believing that he loved her and promised her eternal happiness if she marries him….but it turns out all that he wanted from her was her money. Ever since she was disowned by her father and her father died leaving all the fortune to her other sister Lira who was now wasting all the money for who-knows-what the way her husband treated her changed. He was drunk one day and confessed that he married her for her money. Layla cried her heart out but she couldn't do anything but accept that this was going to be her life. She has to be responsible for her decisions. She was now pregnant three months and was afraid that if Lucy comes to the world Jude would treat her badly as he treated her. "What is taking you long woman?" Jude yelled again. "Sorry, here you go dear." Layla hurried and served the beer to her husband who done nothing but drink since this morning. He couldn't even get a job or even hold a job. This man was pathetic! And she hated herself for not being able to do anything. "H-honey…why don't you get a job huh? We are behind payment with our bills with the house and—" Layla stammered fidgeting her fingers and not looking at her husband directly. "Are you trying to tell me what to do?" Jude shouted angrily and slapped the poor woman and her hands automatically pressed against her stomach as she landed on the floor making sure that no harm came to her baby. "N-no!" Layla fearfully muttered getting up to her feet and moving away in case he decided to hurt her again. She wouldn't risk the life of her baby. After a few hours Jude told her that he was going out with his friends for a party. Layla nodded and was glad that she had the place all to herself. This happened everyday. Her husband would get out of the house and party and she would be left alone in the house and he would come back home drunk and would abuse her. As she looked at herself in the mirror the once well-fed lady and was gifted with a beautiful face was now suffering with bruises all over the prominent face. Layla was tired of her life! All that she ever wanted was to be loved. She has never experienced the love of a parent and now she has deluded herself into thinking that her husband would be the one to finally make her feel that for once that she was loved. So during her free time she would open the television and watch her dramas. She loved watching dramas! And after watching a few of it commercial came and announcement given that there will be a shooting near the streets of Magnolia and her favorite actors where going to be there! Layla got all excited and checked the schedules and saw that it would be held three days from now. She would have to ask for her husband's permission to go there. After changing into a new set of clothes she prepared herself to do the house chores starting with their room which was messy thanks to her husband. Layla decided to clean the house and prepare dinner for her and Jude when there was a knock heard in the middle of the night and she hurried and opened the door to see Jude who was in for a surprise! "Hello, wife!" Jude greeted cheerfully and casually passed by her wife earning a shock face from the girl. "J-jude! I didn't expect you to be so early!" She gasped worrying that he would change and get angry again as she followed suit. "It's alright! You should rest now." He grinned. She had no idea what was making her husband act like this but she prayed fervently that this would keep up so that she could get permission to go the gathering three days from now. "Well, no, do you want to eat now?" She asked him and prepared the food that she cooked. Jude followed and sat himself in one of the empty seats. "I have something to tell you…. I finally got a job! My friend helped me." Jude's eyes were sparkling with pride and this got Layla's attention. "Really? What kind?" She asked curiously but was elated with happiness that bills around here were finally going to get paid. "Don't ask….not important." "Well…okay. Ummmm, Jude? Can I ask for your permission for something?" Layla used her sweetest and most melodic voice and twinkled her eyes purposely to an oblivious Jude. "What Is it? If it's money I still don't have it." He answered grumpily holding out his spoon carelessly as he scooped his soup. "No! It's not that. You see three days from now…I watched it on TV and I saw that there was going to be some sort of parade. Can I perhaps come?" Layla's voice became softer each word and waited for his answer. "Hmmm…when is it?" He asked still not paying attention but rather to his soup. "Well, in three days." She answered confidently. Jude finally had the time to look at her and his eyebrows twitched and Layla felt uneasy. "Okay…but don't expect me to get you there." He stated getting back to finishing his soup. A smiled slowly spread from the girl and she felt happy that everything was being okay. "Just get out before I change my mind." He muttered. He finished his soup and was now getting to the living room and looking for the remote. Their house was only two-stories and it was rather small. They were able to pay for the house from the last budget that she got from when she was still with her father. That night I woke up and got up and came to the roofdeck. It has a window that can be opened and the stars at night was a sight to behold. The air was chilly but she smiled peering into the darkness. "Can you feel it baby? The air is so chilly and mama is getting cold." Layla talked to her stomach as she rubbed it comfortingly. "Don't worry, baby….I promise that you won't have a life like this. I swear you will be happy." Layla said conversationally to her baby as tears streamed down her face. "Mama, will protect you." She gasped wiping away her tears as she continued to gaze at the stars hoping that they will grant her wish for her baby's happiness. Three days have passed and Layla choosed her outfit carefully praying that she would meet all of her favorite actors. Her husband left early for his 'job' and she didn't bother him with what his job really was for fear that he might take back the permission he gave to get out of the house today. She walked out of the house locked it and breathed deeply into the morning air. She started walking and gazed intently at her surroundings. And after a few hours of walking she got tired and patted her stomach worrying that this wasn't good for the baby. So she decided to rest for a while and started walking again. After walking the long distance she finally arrived. "Watch it lady!" One guy warned as bikes and other vehicles passed by almost hitting me. And when I neared the crowd that was hurdling in one space a girl in her twenties held a microphone and announced that the shooting will be starting in a few more hours. So Layla explored the place while waiting. She saw couples younger than her walking hand in hand and felt jealousy as to how they lived a care-free life. She saw children who were playing in the park laughing innocently and having the time of their life and Layla thought if her child would be like those children playing. That's when she suddenly starts to get the notion that someone was following her. She looked back and saw that there were two men who smiling creepily at her and she started to fasten her pace when the guy with the shades caught her arm. "Where you going babe? You lost?" He snickered still holding on to her hands. She suddenly felt fear as the two men cornered her. "Hey, you creeps! How dare you corner a girl! Have you no shame?" A new voice approached and I dared to look and a saw a girl close to my age with shoulder-length hair and black hair as night stubbing her fingers in our direction. "Crap….let's just go…." The guy who held my wrist let go and glared in our direction. I stood there in place and waited for them to get as far as possible. "Hey, are you alright miss?" The girl who saved her asked walking beside me. "You look sick." She added. "No, I'm fine…must be the nerves. Thanks, for helping me!" I remembered bowing as I gave my thanks. "No, need! It was a pleasure." She grinned and helped me up. "So why are you here? You don't seem to be a girl from around here." "I just went to see something but got lost. And, yeah I'm not from here." I explained and she looked at me for a few seconds with an unfathomable expression. "Ohhh… you should be careful there are a lot of creeps around here." She warned with a serious face. "The names Ur by the way. Ur Fullbuster." She stated holding out her hands to me. I stared at her hands not knowing what to do when she laughed and grabbed my left hand. "Layla…Layla Heartfilia." I answered back returning the gesture. "I see….cute name….Layla." She smiled so big it could have reached her eyes. "So got anything to do Layla?" Ur asked. "Not really….I'm just passing the time!" Layla felt happiness for having to meet a new friend. "Then come with me! I'll show you around." Ur pulled Layla and she stopped and her face looked pale instantly as her hands held onto her stomach. The blonde looked worriedly at her new friend. "Is everything alright?" She asked to the raven-haired girl. "Yeah….I just have to remember to take it easy since I'm carrying two lives here." Ur muttered finally looking fine again. "Two lives?" Layla asked racking her brain for what she meant. "I'm pregnant!" Ur shouted gleefully as she hit the girl who looked stoned-face beside her. "Seriously? So am I!" Layla exclaimed smiling back excitedly. "Really?" Ur asked back again. And for a few minutes they smiled contentedly to themselves when a smile creeped into their faces. "SISTERS!" The two girls screamed with joy as they hugged each other laughing after breaking from their hug. "Wow….we need to talk and learn a lot from each other!" Ur announced excitedly pacing from her place and her eyes twinkling in anticipation. The blonde agreed and they decided to stay in one of the benches that the park provided. They sat there and telling each other about their lives and who were the lucky bastards that they had married. Ur was first to talk about her life. She told Layla that she wasn't born from a rich family but was lucky that she married a rich man who could provide for her and her baby. But unfortunately….the father of her child left them three months ago with nothing but money for their future. Ur threw a fit and Layla was there comforting and listened attentively to what her friend has to say. "Wow….never knew where he could have gone?" Layla asked patting the other girl comfortingly who dampened her clothes with tears. "Nah, the guy was a bastard for leaving me and our soon to be baby. We don't need him." She said wiping away the last of her tears and urged Layla to tell stories about her past. She wasn't comfortable with the idea of sharing her problems with others but figured that Ur was her trusted friend already. So she poured all of her secrets to her and like what the other girl did, cried when she finished her story with 'her husband changing for the sake of not having the money from her father.' Ur stared at her for a long time with her mouth open in disbelief. "What a son of a bitch. He treats you like that? Let me at him!" Ur who was comforting her friend a few seconds ago and now angered with the knowledge of what Layla's daily lifeand what her husband does to Layla. "No, I need to get through this. I have to be strong for my baby." Layla reasoned making Ur sit down but she held on to Layla's hand with force enough to shake them both. "Are you sure you're going to be alright though?" Ur asked worriedly. "You can stay in my house?" She offered. Layla was almost tempted to take the offer but decided she didn't want to burden Ur with her unlucky life. "No, I'll be fine. I'll manage somehow." That's when people suddenly got everywhere and was making a fuss shouting 'it's about to start' and both girls remembered why they came here in the first place. "I have to go somewhere." Both girls shouted In alarm and they laughed at this. "Promise me we'll see each other again!" Ur cried reaching for Layla. "Yeah, I promise soon!" Layla murmured reaching out for the other girl at the same time and they stood their dramatically. "And if that husband of yours decides to hurt you…come to me and I'll beat the crap out of him." Ur swore with a hunted look. Layla shivered with her warning but nevertheless shook her head and the both of them set of into different places. Layla was glad that she finally was able to meet another face besides her husband. Even back when she was with her father she never had friends. Well, true friends that is…..she discovered one day that they were only making friends with her for her money. She didn't trust anyone so much then. But this girl Ur, she was a good person. And she really hoped to see her again someday. "Yes! Glad it hasn't started yet!" Layla sighed in relief and walked closer to the gathering crowd. And people were pushing to get a better view. "No way!" A familiar voice that she was so sure sounded minutes ago and the voice came a few meters away from her. "Ur?" Layla asked in surprise. "Wow! I didn't expect that you're interested in this kind of stuff!" Ur cheerfully stated while she made her way through the crowd to get to her. "Yeah, guess I forgot to tell you…I'm a fan of dramas!" I shouted holding her hands when she got through. "Same! We really are soul sisters!" Ur said and we looked at each other until the shooting started and a girl in her mid-forties showed up in a black cardigan that concealed her chest and was wearing shorts that revealed a lot of skin and she was followed by a man in a cowboy suit playing with the guns on his hands. "Oh my gosh! It's Bisca and Alzack!" Both pregnant ladies screamed at the top of their lungs as the cheering people around did the same. Both girls screamed wildly as they witnessed one of their favorite actors and jumped from their place. "Wow! Bisca is sure pretty! She doesn't age a day!" Ur told Layla not taking her eyes off the girl doing her tricks though. Layla nodded in agreement and both girls were star-trucked for the meantime. The shooting went on for an hour and as the cast packed up and finished their shooting both Ur and Layla tried to get to see more of the aspiring actors but failed. "Oh men! I'd do anything to be on her shoes." Ur tearfully murmured at the moving car that held the actors away. "Yeah." I giggled and found that Ur had a kind of split personality. "Hey! What about we see each other again tom?" Ur said and she put on her smiling face. "I don't think I can go out tom though." Layla told her sadly. "I'll come to your house then." She quickly found a solution. Layla thought if her husband would get mad and decided it should be alright. "Okay." Layla agreed and gave out the directions to her house. They parted and promised they would see each other again. The next day Ur went to their house while Jude was away. Layla learned that she worked in a place called Fairy Tail Cafe and that it was a restaurant that served different kinds of food. They talked about their favorite dramas and actors and ate the food Layla prepared and researched healthy tips for their babies deciding on what names they should name them. This went on for months and Ur would always visit whenever Jude was away and whenever he was there he won't beat her wife as he usually did before only occasionally. Until one day Jude came home and his wife greeted him to see that he was sweating bullets and a had a haunted look on his face. "What's the matter?" Layla asked worriedly bending down to her husband's face. "L-layla….we need to get out of here!" Jude spoke indifferently. "Why?" Layla asked and was afraid that harm might come to their child. "The job I was in ….had a few problems and now we need to get out of here! Pack your stuff." He instructed getting on his knees and packing his stuff. "Where are we going?" "My co-worker said that we could join him and go to Love and Lucky a sort of place out of the city of Magnolia." "How long will we be there?" Layla asked. "I don't know." He answered fretfully. Layla started packing her stuff and remembered that Ur was coming tonight to hand over a few dinner to share. She suddenly felt really sad as to why she had to leave her only friend who was finally becoming really important to her and more of a sister. She left a letter that explained why she won't be seeing her there anymore and left it where Ur could see it. "Layla….I need to tell you that whatever happens…I have come to learn and realize….that I do love you." Jude tearfully said while begging on his knees. "I'm sorry I was blinded by money….but I do love you and I want us to start afresh." With this Layla cried and nodded reaching out for her husband. And the both of them fled from the night off to Love and Lucky. The same night…Ur knocked on the front door of the Heartfilia's and carried a bag full of pasta that she made for Layla and her. Time came and nobody answered the door. She would usually be greeted by the cheerful voice of Layla and a smile on her face. Not that she wasn't allowed to barge in since she knew where Layla hid the house keys underneath the door mat. Worry filled her as she finally got the keys and opened the door. "Layla? Are you here? I got pasta." Ur called out. She looked into the rooms and searched everywhere until she saw a letter that was tucked in Layla's bed. She snatched the paper and opened it and recognized Layla's neat hand-writing. Dearest, Ur Maybe as you read this letter I am on my way somewhere far. Me and my husband Jude decided to get out of town and start a new life. I am really afraid since I don't fully trust my husband and that I think I'm going to give birth in a few days. I'm sorry for leaving in such short notice. I promise to write as much as possible. Thank you for the last few months that we spent together. You've given me so much happiness. You're almost like a sister to me. Tell me when your baby turns out to be a boy or a girl. All my love, Layla As Ur finished reading the letter she was enveloped by sadness for not being able to say good-bye to her friend. "Layla…" Ur cried out clutching her knees and sobbing quietly in one corner. After two weeks have passed Ur and Layla would write letters about the latest news about their lives and lived as normally as they could. Until one day Layla was washing the dishes and felt a strange pain on her abdomen as her hands automatically grasped her stomach. "Jude!" Layla screamed in panic as water streamed down her legs and she knew that it was time for the baby to come out. Her husband came running out from re-constructing their new home. "What is it?" Jude asked placing his hands around her. "It's time for the baby-" And she was stopped as a scream was placed with her words. Jude understood and carried his wife to the neighbors who knew how to give birth to infants. And back in Magnolia as Ur was working on her shift in Fairy Tail Café she felt the same and screamed at everyone. "Gildarts! It's time." Ur clenched her teeth. "Time for what?" "The baby is coming out!" And with that everyone in the café panicked as they called for help and decided to take her to the nearest hospital. And at the same day April 25 Layla and Ur gave birth. It took six hours for them to undergo the whole hardship. And finally both were tired from the whole procession and Layla give birth to a baby girl who was crying. "G-give her to me." Layla commanded holding out her frail hands towards her daughter. "Here." Jude passed the crying baby to her wife. The moment her hands clutched on warm cloth that was wrapped around the child she cooed to the baby and smiled. This was one of the best moments of her life. She has finally given birth to her child. All of the pain and suffering she felt from giving birth and it was one of the hardest trial she ever dealt with but it was worth it. All the pain she felt all these years she overcame it for her. For her baby. "J-Jude she's so pretty…." Layla almost cried at the sight of the child. "She looks so much like you…" Jude answered smiling at the both of them. "What will we call her?" Jude asked sitting down at the corner and glancing around. "You should rest now." The girl who helped Jude and the one who shouted instructions to Layla giving birth. And left for them to be with the new-born child. "Soon . I'm thinking of Lucy?" Layla finalized. "Lovely name." Jude replied. "At last! That w-was hard." A grumpy Ur called out and reached at the empty space for her baby. "It's a boy Ur!" Gildarts called out giving the baby to her searching hands. "Really? I shall call him Gray." "Because, he's named after one of my favorite characters in one drama I watched with Layla." Ur answered hugging the baby close to her heart. And both Layla and Ur were happy to have finally seen their babies the fruits of their labor. After three days they were finally able to restore the energy they lost and have regained strength. "Layla! I have a baby already! It's a healthy boy. I swear he's so cute." Ur shouted excitedly to the girl in the other line of the phone. "Really? Mine is a girl! I named her Lucy." Layla chatted happily. Before Layla left Magnolia they vowed to call their children by their favorite actors and they did. "I can't believe we gave birth the same day." Ur said. "Yeah….I miss you." Layla sighed. It has been a year since they last met and they only have talked on the phone for the first time since Layla has installed it in their house. "Yeah, me too! Anyway, gtg my son is crying again." Ur laughed at the other line. Layla understood and after talking to Ur came to visit the sleeping Lucy. "Hey, there baby Lucy…" Layla cooed at the infant who was sleeping peacefully in the nursery that they made for the child. Years passed and she spent it with her family and for once was happy. Layla was working in one of the company outside the city of Magnolia. After working so hard she became successful and became the president of the company that she worked hard on. It took her five years to get to where she was. And her husband was working in the company as well. It was a company for drama productions. They were already successful in making fourteen movies in two years. She called the company Heartfilia Theater Company. Her lovely daughter Lucy grew up to be a kind-hearted little girl. Her mother spends time with her as much as she could. "Ma'am we'll be going home now." Her secretary Meredith called out. "Of course. Good Job and safe trip home!" Layla thanked her secretary for the hard work and decided to pack and go home as well. As she locked the room to her office and was greeted a good bye from most of the leaving workers. She preferred to commute home since it was a hassle to get a cab. And on the way home she felt like someone was stalking her. She turned around to see a man wearing shades lurking behind the lampposts. "Show yourself!" Layla commanded in an authorative voice. "Good Evening Mrs. Heartfilia…." A man who showed up and removed his shades smiling at her. "Who are you and what do you want?" "Well….I know your husband…Jude. We used to work together back in Magnolia you see." The man answered politely as he took a step nearer. Layla got the notion that this was the man that they were hiding from for the past seven years. She really was intrigued with what her husband used to have for a job. "Co-worker? In what business?" "So your husband didn't tell you did he?" The man smiled showing his teeth with golden tooth. And Layla found out that her husband was involved in illegal business. He was helping this man transport drugs that could give a person high and ecstasy. It has been going on for months and that her husband owed this man a lot of money….or rather Jude stole from this man. Layla's knees began to feel weak shaking from the every word that she heard from the man. These past few years her husband changed for the better and was nice to Lucy. He never even treated her like they way he did years ago. "How do I know that you're not lying?" Layla shouted glaring at the man with pure hatred. Who was he to ruin her perfect life? Everything was perfect and he just had to destroy her dreams that were coming true. "Well, why would he suggest to leave years ago?" The man viciously spatted. "Look at the facts…he stole money from me and ran!" Then again I remembered that night when he was so afraid and urged me to leave at once. "It doesn't matter! That was all in the past. I know he has changed." I started to walk away and forget that I ever talked to this man and forget all the confrontations we had. "Better hurry, Mrs. Heartfilia…or it might be too late." The man laughed and disappeared into the night. Then panic overwhelmed Layla thinking of her husband and Lucy her daughter at home. She ran as fast as she could arrived with the door opened. "LUCY! JUDE!" She screamed and got herself to open the lights. The place was a mess. It looked like tornado hit and every furniture was destroyed. She followed where the footprints that came from the floor since it was muddy outside due to the rain. Slowly opening the room from the third floor she saw a man who was holding on to a broken vase and was lying down with his mouth open. But that was not the one that held her attention. It was because blood was everywhere. "AGHHHHHH! JUDE! Don't die on me!" Layla screams and pleads could be heard all over the place as she crouched down to sob and wail furiously to her dead husband. It looked like he was shot and looked around to see that they were robbed as well. She remembered the man and came to the realization that it was that man that did this as hate filled her. "LUCY? Lucy, honey where are you?" Layla called out helplessly. She prayed with all her heart that no harm has happened to her daughter. She will die if something happened to her. "Mama! Mama!" A sob came through in one of the closets. She hurried over and opened it to see a crying Lucy huddled over the trampled clothes and was clutching her teddy bear. "Lucy! Are you alright? Did they hurt you?" Layla asked her daughter frantically hugging her daughter and patting her back. "Mama, I'm fine…..but….papa—" Lucy trailed off and suddenly her eyes started getting red and she cried holding on to her mother. "Yes, I'm so sorry Lucy. Stay here! I'll call the cops. Stay here!" Layla told her. Lucy whimpered but nevertheless obeyed and stayed put. Layla called the cops and reported the murder with shaky voice. After a few minutes they arrived and asked her and Lucy to stay in the car while the investigator demanded answers. "So when you arrived after talking to this man…you ran home and saw your husband right?" The investigator said calmly. Layla nodded and hugged the now sleeping Lucy close to her. "I see…for now Ma'am we will be expecting you to stay with us until we catch the killer on the loose." He trailed off scanning the information he got and got off the car. Why did this happen? Why does everything she loved has to be taken? When everything was almost perfect….life always seemed to be taking away something from her. The next day they were invited by the girl cop named Sabrina to sleep in her house. Last night she didn't have the chance to scan the place around since she was still traumatized from the events from last night so she held on to Lucy as she fell asleep. She got up and explored the house. It wasn't as big as their mansion but it had a welcoming touch and it's white walls were enough not to remind her from the bloody red-walls that she witnessed last night. And for all she knew the corpse of her husband was taken somewhere for further investigation. And now Layla saw Sabrina smiling at her. "Good Morning Mrs. Heartfilia! If you're worrying about you company I called them and told them that you will be off today." Sabrina cheerfully updated her and invited her for breakfast. " Sabrina-san….do you mind if I use your phone?" Layla asked politely. "Sure it's down there." Sabrina pointed while preparing breakfast as she disappeared from view. Layla called the house of one person who she knew she could ran to and trust for the matter whenever she needed help. The only person who can help and understand her at a time like this. As she dialed the familiar numbers and waited as the phone rang a couple of times a voice sounded. "Hello? Fullbuster residence." A manner-like tone spoke out. "U-ur? It's me Layla….I need your help." So that's chapter one! Sorry, if it's all about Layla and Ur. But I swear it will only take two chapters! The next chapter will be about how Gray and Lucy meets for the first time! :D shouts in excitement BOOYAH! I'm pretty excited now. Sorry, if Layla's life seems too tragic. Anyway, REVIEW and tell me what you think. So here's chapter one of my first GrayLu fanfic. Why do you think Layla called Ur?	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8060303/1/The-Lucky-Ones	<urn:uuid:2ab50949-37b0-483c-a4f0-be966a7225ef>	en	0.992126	0.085146
American Civil War From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - View original article American Civil War American Civil War Montage.jpg Clockwise from top left: Battle of Stones River; Confederate prisoners of war; Battle of Fort Hindman. DateApril 12, 1861 – May 10, 1865 (by declaration)[1] (4 years, 3 weeks and 6 days) (last shot fired June 22, 1865) LocationSouthern United States, Northeastern United States, Western United States, Atlantic Ocean ResultUnion victory United States Confederate States Commanders and leaders Abraham Lincoln Edwin M. Stanton Ulysses S. Grant William T. Sherman David Farragut David D. Porter and others Jefferson Davis Judah P. Benjamin Robert E. Lee Joseph E. Johnston Raphael Semmes Josiah Tattnall and others Casualties and losses 110,000 Army killed in action/dead of wounds [2] 25,000 Army dead in Confederate prisons [3] 2,260 Navy/Marines killed [4] ~ 365,000 total dead[5] 275,200 wounded 72,524 killed in action[5] ~ 260,000 total dead 137,000+ wounded Jump to: navigation, search American Civil War American Civil War Montage.jpg (4 years, 3 weeks and 6 days) (last shot fired June 22, 1865) ResultUnion victory United States Confederate States Commanders and leaders Abraham Lincoln Edwin M. Stanton Ulysses S. Grant William T. Sherman David Farragut David D. Porter and others Jefferson Davis Judah P. Benjamin Robert E. Lee Joseph E. Johnston Raphael Semmes Josiah Tattnall and others Casualties and losses 110,000 Army killed in action/dead of wounds [2] 25,000 Army dead in Confederate prisons [3] 2,260 Navy/Marines killed [4] ~ 365,000 total dead[5] 275,200 wounded 72,524 killed in action[5] ~ 260,000 total dead 137,000+ wounded The American Civil War, also known as the War Between the States, or simply the Civil War in the United States (see naming), was a civil war fought from 1861 to 1865 in the United States after seven Southern slave states declared their secession and formed the Confederate States of America (the "Confederacy" or the "South"). The states that remained in the Union were known as the "Union" or the "North". The war had its origin in the fractious issue of slavery, especially the extension of slavery into the western territories.[6] Foreign powers did not intervene. After four years of bloody combat that left over 600,000 soldiers dead and destroyed much of the South's infrastructure, the Confederacy collapsed, slavery was abolished, and the difficult Reconstruction process of restoring national unity and guaranteeing rights to the freed slaves began. Hostilities began on April 12, 1861, when Confederate forces fired upon Fort Sumter, a key fort held by Union troops in South Carolina. Lincoln called for each state to provide troops to retake the fort; consequently, four more slave states joined the Confederacy, bringing their total to eleven. The Union soon controlled the border states and established a naval blockade that crippled the southern economy. The Eastern Theater was inconclusive in 1861–62. The autumn 1862 Confederate campaign into Maryland (a Union state) ended with Confederate retreat at the Battle of Antietam, dissuading British intervention.[7] Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which made ending slavery a war goal.[8] To the west, by summer 1862 the Union destroyed the Confederate river navy, then much of their western armies, and the Union siege of Vicksburg split the Confederacy in two at the Mississippi River. In 1863, Robert E. Lee's Confederate incursion north ended at the Battle of Gettysburg. Western successes led to Ulysses S. Grant's command of all Union armies in 1864. In the Western Theater, William T. Sherman drove east to capture Atlanta and marched to the sea, destroying Confederate infrastructure along the way. The Union marshaled the resources and manpower to attack the Confederacy from all directions, and could afford to fight battles of attrition through the Overland Campaign towards Richmond, the Confederate capital. The defending Confederate army failed, leading to Lee's surrender to Grant at Appomattox Court House on April 9, 1865. All Confederate generals surrendered by that summer. Causes of secession The causes of the Civil War were complex and have been controversial since the war began. The issue has been further complicated by historical revisionists, who have tried to offer a variety of reasons for the war.[11] Slavery was the central source of escalating political tension in the 1850s. The Republican Party was determined to prevent any spread of slavery, and many Southern leaders had threatened secession if the Republican candidate, Lincoln, won the 1860 election. After Lincoln had won without carrying a single Southern state, many Southern whites felt that disunion had become their only option, because they felt as if they were losing representation, which hampered their ability to promote pro-slavery acts and policies.[12] The slavery issue was primarily about whether the system of slavery was an anachronistic evil that was incompatible with Republicanism in the United States, or a state-based property system protected by the Constitution.[13] The strategy of the anti-slavery forces was containment—to stop the expansion and thus put slavery on a path to gradual extinction.[14] To slave holding interests in the South, this strategy was perceived as infringing upon their Constitutional rights.[15] Slavery was being phased out of existence in the North and was fading in the border states and urban areas, but was expanding in highly profitable cotton districts of the south. A 1863 photo of a whipped slave Gordon, distributed in the North during the war.[16] Despite compromises in 1820 and 1850, the slavery issues exploded in the 1850s. Causes include controversy over admitting Missouri as a slave state in 1820, the acquisition of Texas as a slave state in 1845 and the status of slavery in western territories won as a result of the Mexican–American War and the resulting Compromise of 1850.[17] Following the U.S. victory over Mexico, Northerners attempted to exclude slavery from conquered territories in the Wilmot Proviso; although it passed the House, it failed in the Senate. Northern (and British) readers recoiled in anger at the horrors of slavery as described in the novel and play Uncle Tom's Cabin (1852) by abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe.[18] Irreconcilable disagreements over slavery ended the Whig and Know Nothing political parties, and later split the Democratic Party between North and South, while the new Republican Party angered slavery interests by demanding an end to its expansion. Most observers believed that without expansion slavery would eventually die out; Lincoln argued this in 1845 and 1858.[19] Meanwhile, the South of the 1850s saw an increasing number of slaves leave the border states through sale, manumission and escape. During this same period, slave-holding border states had more free African-Americans and European immigrants than the lower South, which increased Southern fears that slavery was threatened with rapid extinction in this area.[20] With tobacco and cotton wearing out the soil, the South believed it needed to expand slavery.[21] The Southern states had advocates arguing to reopen the international slave trade to populate territory that was to be newly opened to slavery.[22] Southern demands for a slave code to ensure slavery in the territories repeatedly split the Democratic Party between North and South by widening margins.[23] To settle the dispute over slavery expansion, Abolitionists and proslavery elements sent their partisans into Kansas, both using ballots and bullets. In the 1850s, a miniature civil war in Bleeding Kansas led pro-South Presidents Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan to attempt a forced admission of Kansas as a slave state through vote fraud.[24] The 1857 Congressional rejection of the pro-slavery Lecompton Constitution was the first multi-party solid-North vote, and that solid vote was anti-slavery to support the democratic majority voting in the Kansas Territory.[25] Violence on behalf of Southern honor reached the floor of the Senate in 1856 when a Southern Congressman, Preston Brooks, physically assaulted Republican Senator Charles Sumner when he ridiculed prominent slaveholders as pimps for slavery.[26] The earlier political party structure failed to make accommodation among sectional differences. Disagreements over slavery caused the Whig and "Know-Nothing" parties to collapse. In 1860, the last national political party, the Democratic Party, split along sectional lines. Anti-slavery Northerners mobilized in 1860 behind moderate Abraham Lincoln because he was most likely to carry the doubtful western states. In 1857, the Supreme Court's Dred Scott decision ended the Congressional compromise for Popular Sovereignty in Kansas. According to the court, slavery in the territories was a property right of any settler, regardless of the majority there. Chief Justice Taney's decision said that slaves were "so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect". The decision overturned the Missouri Compromise which banned slavery in territory north of the 36°30' parallel.[27] Members of slave-owning planter aristocracy dominated society and politics in the South. Republicans denounced the Dred Scott decision and promised to overturn it; Abraham Lincoln warned that the next Dred Scott decision could threaten the Northern states with slavery. The Republican party platform called slavery "a national evil", and Lincoln believed it would die a natural death if it were contained.[28] The Democrat Stephen A. Douglas developed the Freeport Doctrine to appeal to North and South. Douglas argued, Congress could not decide either for or against slavery before a territory was settled. Nonetheless, the anti-slavery majority in Kansas could stop slavery with its own local laws if their police laws did not protect slavery introduction.[29] Most 1850 political battles followed the arguments of Lincoln and Douglas, focusing on the issue of slavery expansion in the territories.[30] But political debate was cut short throughout the South with Northern abolitionist John Brown's 1859 raid at Harpers Ferry Armory in an attempt to incite slave insurrections. The Southern political defense of slavery transformed into widespread expansion of local militias for armed defense of their "peculiar" domestic institution.[31] Lincoln's assessment of the political issue for the 1860 elections was that, "This question of Slavery was more important than any other; indeed, so much more important has it become that no other national question can even get a hearing just at present."[32] The Republicans gained majorities in both House and Senate for the first time since Democrats in the 1856 elections, they were to be seated in numbers which Lincoln might use to govern, a national parliamentary majority even before pro-slavery House and Senate seats vacated.[33] Meanwhile, Southern Vice President, Alexander Stephens, in the Cornerstone Speech, declared the new confederate "Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."[34] The Republican administration enacted the Confiscation Acts that set conditions for emancipation of slaves prior to the official proclamation of emancipation.[35] Likewise, Lincoln had previously condemned slavery and called for its "extinction."[36] Considering the relative weight given to causes of the Civil War by contemporary actors, historians such as Chandra Manning argue that both Union and Confederate fighting soldiers believed slavery to be the cause of the Civil War. Union men mainly believed the war was to bring emancipation to the slaves. Confederates fought to protect southern society, and slavery as an integral part of it.[37] Addressing the causes, Eric Foner would relate a historical context with multidimensional political, social and economic variables. The several causes united in the moment by a consolidating nationalism. A social movement that was individualist, egalitarian and perfectionist grew to a political democratic majority attacking slavery, and slavery's defense in the Southern pre-industrial traditional society brought the two sides to war.[38] States' rights Secondly, the South argued that each state had the right to secede—leave the Union—at any time, that the Constitution was a "compact" or agreement among the states. Northerners (including President Buchanan) rejected that notion as opposed to the will of the Founding Fathers who said they were setting up a "perpetual union".[39] Historian James McPherson writes concerning states' rights and other non-slavery explanations: Status of the states, 1861. States that seceded before April 15, 1861 States that seceded after April 15, 1861 Union states that permitted slavery Union states that banned slavery Sectionalism refers to the different economies, social structure, customs and political values of the North and South.[41][42] It increased steadily between 1800 and 1860 as the North, which phased slavery out of existence, industrialized, urbanized and built prosperous farms, while the deep South concentrated on plantation agriculture based on slave labor, together with subsistence farming for the poor whites. The South expanded into rich new lands in the Southwest (from Alabama to Texas).[43] Fears of slave revolts and abolitionist propaganda made the South militantly hostile to abolitionism.[45][46] Southerners complained that it was the North that was changing, and was prone to new "isms", while the South remained true to historic republican values of the Founding Fathers (many of whom owned slaves, including Washington, Jefferson, and Madison). Lincoln said that Republicans were following the tradition of the framers of the Constitution (including the Northwest Ordinance and the Missouri Compromise) by preventing expansion of slavery.[47] The issue of accepting slavery (in the guise of rejecting slave-owning bishops and missionaries) split the largest religious denominations (the Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches) into separate Northern and Southern denominations.[48] Industrialization meant that seven European immigrants out of eight settled in the North. The movement of twice as many whites leaving the South for the North as vice versa contributed to the South's defensive-aggressive political behavior.[49] Slave power and free soil Territorial crisis Between 1803 and 1854, the United States achieved a vast expansion of territory through purchase, negotiation, and conquest.[55] Of the states carved out of these territories by 1845, all had entered the union as slave states: Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas, Florida and Texas, as well as the southern portions of Alabama and Mississippi.[56] And with the conquest of northern Mexico, including California, in 1848, slaveholding interests looked forward to the institution flourishing in these lands as well. Southerners also anticipated garnering slaves and slave states in Cuba and Central America.[57][58] Northern free soil interests vigorously sought to curtail any further expansion of slave soil. It was these territorial disputes that the proslavery and antislavery forces collided over.[59][60] The existence of slavery in the southern states was far less politically polarizing than the explosive question of the territorial expansion of the institution westward.[61] Moreover, Americans were informed by two well-established readings of the Constitution regarding human bondage: first, that the slave states had complete autonomy over the institution within their boundaries, and second, that the domestic slave trade – trade among the states – was immune to federal interference.[62][63] The only feasible strategy available to attack slavery was to restrict its expansion into the new territories.[64] Slaveholding interests fully grasped the danger that this strategy posed to them.[65][66] Both the South and the North drew the same conclusion: "The power to decide the question of slavery for the territories was the power to determine the future of slavery itself."[67][68] By 1860, four doctrines had emerged to answer the question of federal control in the territories, and they all claimed to be sanctioned by the Constitution, implicitly or explicitly.[69] Two of the "conservative" doctrines emphasized the written text and historical precedents of the founding document (specifically, the Northwest Ordinance and the Missouri Compromise), while the other two doctrines developed arguments that transcended the Constitution.[70] The first of these "conservative" theories, represented by the Constitutional Union Party, argued that the historical designation of free and slave apportionments in territories should become a Constitutional mandate. The Crittenden Compromise of 1860 was an expression of this view.[71] The second doctrine of Congressional preeminence, championed by Abraham Lincoln and the Republican Party, insisted that the Constitution did not bind legislators to a policy of balance – that slavery could be excluded altogether in a territory at the discretion of Congress [71][72] – with one caveat: the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment must apply. In other words, Congress could restrict human bondage, but never establish it.[70] The Wilmot Proviso announced this position in 1846.[71] Of the two doctrines that rejected federal authority, one was articulated by northern Democrat of Illinois Senator Stephen A. Douglas, and the other by southern Democratic Senator Jefferson Davis of Mississippi and Vice-President John C. Breckinridge of Kentucky.[70] Douglas proclaimed the doctrine of territorial or "popular" sovereignty, which declared that the settlers in a territory had the same rights as states in the Union to establish or disestablish slavery – a purely local matter.[70] Congress, having created the territory, was barred, according to Douglas, from exercising any authority in domestic matters. To do so would violate historic traditions of self-government, implicit in the US Constitution.[73] The Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 legislated this doctrine. The fourth in this quartet is the theory of state sovereignty ("states' rights"),[73] also known as the "Calhoun doctrine",[74] named after the South Carolinian political theorist and statesman John C. Calhoun.[75] Rejecting the arguments for federal authority or self-government, state sovereignty would empower states to promote the expansion of slavery as part of the Federal Union under the US Constitution – and not merely as an argument for secession.[76][77] The basic premise was that all authority regarding matters of slavery in the territories resided in each state. The role of the federal government was merely to enable the implementation of state laws when residents of the states entered the territories.[78] The Calhoun doctrine asserted that the federal government in the territories was only the agent of the several sovereign states, and hence incapable of forbidding the bringing into any territory of anything that was legal property in any state. State sovereignty, in other words, gave the laws of the slaveholding states extra-jurisdictional effect.[79] "States' rights" was an ideology formulated and applied as a means of advancing slave state interests through federal authority.[80] As historian Thomas L. Krannawitter points out, "[T]he Southern demand for federal slave protection represented a demand for an unprecedented expansion of federal power." [81][82] National elections Nationalism and honor Abraham Lincoln 16th U.S. President (1861–1865) Nationalism was a powerful force in the early 19th century, with famous spokesmen such as Andrew Jackson and Daniel Webster. While practically all Northerners supported the Union, Southerners were split between those loyal to the entire United States (called "unionists") and those loyal primarily to the southern region and then the Confederacy.[84] C. Vann Woodward said of the latter group, "A great slave society ... had grown up and miraculously flourished in the heart of a thoroughly bourgeois and partly puritanical republic. It had renounced its bourgeois origins and elaborated and painfully rationalized its institutional, legal, metaphysical, and religious defenses ... When the crisis came it chose to fight. It proved to be the death struggle of a society, which went down in ruins."[85] Perceived insults to Southern collective honor included the enormous popularity of Uncle Tom's Cabin (1852)[86] and the actions of abolitionist John Brown in trying to incite a slave rebellion in 1859.[87] Lincoln's election Secession and war begins Resolves and developments Secession of South Carolina Secession winter States align Confederate states Jefferson Davis, President of Confederacy (1861–1865) Among the ordinances of secession passed by the individual states, those of three – Texas, Alabama, and Virginia – specifically mentioned the plight of the 'slaveholding states' at the hands of northern abolitionists. The rest make no mention of the slavery issue, and are often brief announcements of the dissolution of ties by the legislatures,[94] however at least four states – South Carolina,[95] Mississippi,[96] Georgia,[97] and Texas[98] – also passed lengthy and detailed explanations of their causes for secession, all of which laid the blame squarely on the influence over the northern states of the movement to abolish slavery, something regarded as a Constitutional right by the slaveholding states.[99] Union states Border states The Union: blue, yellow (slave); The Confederacy: brown *territories in light shades; control of Confederate territories disputed After Virginia's secession, a Unionist government in Wheeling asked 48 counties to vote on an ordinance to create a new state on October 24, 1861. A voter turnout of 34% approved the statehood bill (96% approving).[106] The inclusion of 24 secessionist counties[107] in the state and the ensuing guerrilla war[108] engaged about 40,000 Federal troops for much of the war.[109] Congress admitted West Virginia to the Union on June 20, 1863. West Virginia provided about 20,000–22,000 soldiers to both the Confederacy and the Union.[110] A Unionist secession attempt occurred in East Tennessee, but was suppressed by the Confederacy, which arrested over 3,000 men suspected of being loyal to the Union. They were held without trial.[111] Beginning the war Lincoln's victory in the presidential election of 1860 triggered South Carolina's declaration of secession from the Union in December, and six more states did so by February 1861. A pre-war February Peace Conference of 1861 met in Washington, Lincoln sneaking into town to stay in the Conference's hotel its last three days. The attempt failed at resolving the crisis, but the remaining eight slave states rejected pleas to join the Confederacy following a two-to-one no-vote in Virginia's First Secessionist Convention on April 4, 1861.[112] Lincoln's policy Since December, secessionists with and without state forces had seized Federal Court Houses, U.S. Treasury mints and post offices. Southern governors ordered militia mobilization, seized most of the federal forts and cannon within their boundaries and U.S. armories of infantry weapons. The governors in big-state Republican strongholds of Massachusetts, New York, and Pennsylvania quietly began buying weapons and training militia units themselves.[113] President Buchanan protested seizure of Federal property, but made no military response apart from a failed attempt in January to resupply Fort Sumter using the ship Star of the West, which was fired upon by South Carolina forces and turned back before it reached the fort.[112] On March 4, 1861, Abraham Lincoln was sworn in as President. In his inaugural address, he argued that the Constitution was a more perfect union than the earlier Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, that it was a binding contract, and called any secession "legally void".[114] He had no intent to invade Southern states, nor did he intend to end slavery where it existed, but said that he would use force to maintain possession of federal property. The government would make no move to recover post offices, and if resisted, mail delivery would end at state lines. Where popular conditions did not allow peaceful enforcement of Federal law, U.S. Marshals and Judges would be withdrawn. No mention was made of bullion lost from U.S. mints in Louisiana, Georgia and North Carolina. In Lincoln's Inaugural, U.S. policy would only collect import duties at its ports, there could be no serious injury to justify revolution in the politics of four years. His speech closed with a plea for restoration of the bonds of union.[115] The South sent delegations to Washington and offered to pay for the federal properties and enter into a peace treaty with the United States. Lincoln rejected any negotiations with Confederate agents because he claimed the Confederacy was not a legitimate government, and that making any treaty with it would be tantamount to recognition of it as a sovereign government.[116] Secretary of State William Seward who at that time saw himself as the real governor or "prime minister" behind the throne of the inexperienced Lincoln, engaged in unauthorized and indirect negotiations that failed.[116] President Lincoln was determined to hold all remaining Union-occupied forts in the Confederacy, Fort Monroe in Virginia, in Florida, Fort Pickens, Fort Jefferson, and Fort Taylor, and in the cockpit of secession, Charleston, South Carolina's Fort Sumter. Battle of Fort Sumter Ft. Sumter was located in the middle of the harbor of Charleston, SC where the U.S. forts garrison had withdrawn to avoid incidents with local militias in the streets of the city. Unlike Buchanan who allowed commanders to relinquish possession to avoid bloodshed, Lincoln required Maj. Anderson to hold on until fired upon. Jefferson Davis ordered the surrender of the fort. Anderson gave a conditional reply which the Confederate government rejected, and Davis ordered P. G. T. Beauregard to attack the fort before a relief expedition could arrive. Troops under Beauregard bombarded Fort Sumter on April 12–13, forcing its capitulation. On April 15, Lincoln's Secretary of War then called on Governors for 75,000 volunteers to recapture the fort and other federal property.[117] Northerners rallied behind Lincoln's call for all the states to send troops to recapture the forts and to preserve the Union,[118] citing presidential powers given by the Militia Acts of 1792. With the scale of the rebellion apparently small so far, Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers for 90 days.[119] Several Northern governors began to move forces the next day, and Secessionists seized Liberty Arsenal in Liberty, Missouri the next week.[113] Two weeks later, on May 3, 1861, Lincoln called for an additional 42,034 volunteers for a period of three years.[120] The War The Civil War was a contest marked by the ferocity and frequency of battle. Over four years, 237 named battles were fought, and many more minor actions and skirmishes. In the scales of world military history, both sides fighting were characterized by their bitter intensity and high casualties. "The American Civil War was to prove one of the most ferocious wars ever fought". Without geographic objectives, the only target for each side was the enemy's soldier.[122] Union soldiers before Marye's Heights, Second Fredericksburg Confederate dead overrun at Marye's Heights, reoccupied next day May 4, 1863. North and South, the draft laws were highly unpopular. An estimated 120,000 men evaded conscription in the North, many of them fleeing to Canada, and another 280,000 Northern soldiers deserted during the war,[129][130] along with at least 100,000 Southerners, or about 10% all together.[131] However, desertion was a very common event in the 19th century; in the peacetime Army about 15% of the soldiers deserted every year.[132] In the South, many men deserted temporarily to take care of their families,[133] then returned to their units.[134] In the North, "bounty jumpers" enlisted to get the generous bonus, deserted, then went back to a second recruiting station under a different name to sign up again for a second bonus; 141 were caught and executed.[135] Rioters attacking a building during the New York anti-draft riots of 1863 From a tiny frontier force in 1860, in a few years the Union and Confederates armies had grown to be the "largest and most efficient armies in the world". European observers at the time dismissed them as amateur and unprofessional, but British historian John Keegan's assessment is that each outmatched the French, Prussian and Russian armies of the time, and but for the Atlantic, would have threatened any of them with defeat.[136] Perman and Taylor (2010) say that historians are of two minds on why millions of men seemed so eager to fight, suffer and die over four years: "Some historians emphasize that Civil War soldiers were driven by political ideology, holding firm beliefs about the importance of liberty, Union, or state rights, or about the need to protect or to destroy slavery. Others point to less overtly political reasons to fight, such as the defense of one's home and family, or the honor and brotherhood to be preserved when fighting alongside other men. Most historians agree that no matter what a soldier thought about when he went into the war, the experience of combat affected him profoundly and sometimes altered his reasons for continuing the fight."[137] Naval war The small U.S. Navy of 1861 was rapidly enlarged to 6,000 officers and 45,000 men in 1865, with 671 vessels, having a tonnage of 510,396.[138][139] Its mission was to blockade Confederate ports, take control of the river system, defend against Confederate raiders on the high seas, and be ready for a possible war with the British Royal Navy.[140] Meanwhile, the main riverine war was fought in the West, where a series of major rivers gave access to the Confederate heartland, if the U.S. Navy could take control. In the East, the Navy supplied and moved army forces about, and occasionally shelled Confederate installations. Union blockade A cartoon map of the South surrounded by a snake. By early 1861, General Winfield Scott had devised the Anaconda Plan to win the war with as little bloodshed as possible.[141] Scott argued that a Union blockade of the main ports would weaken the Confederate economy. Lincoln adopted parts of the plan, but he overruled Scott's caution about 90-day volunteers. Public opinion however demanded an immediate attack by the army to capture Richmond.[142] Modern navy evolves The Civil War prompted the industrial revolution and subsequently many naval innovations emerged during this time, most notably the advent of the ironclad warship. It began when the Confederacy, knowing they had to meet or match the Union's naval superiority,[144] responded to the Union blockade by building or converting more than 130 vessels, including twenty-six ironclads and floating batteries. Only half of these saw active service. Many were equipped with ram bows, creating "ram fever" among Union squadrons wherever they threatened. But in the face of overwhelming Union superiority and the Union's own ironclad warships, they were unsuccessful.[145] The Confederacy experimented with a submarine, which did not work well,[146] and with building an ironclad ship, the CSS Virginia, which was based on rebuilding a sunken Union ship, the Merrimac. On its first foray on March 8, 1862, the Virginia decimated the Union's wooden fleet, but the next day the first Union ironclad, the USS Monitor, arrived to challenge it. The Battle of the Ironclads was a draw, but it marks the worldwide transition to ironclad warships.[147] The Confederacy lost the Virginia when the ship was scuttled to prevent capture, and the Union built many copies of the Monitor. Lacking the technology to build effective warships, the Confederacy attempted to obtain warships from Britain.[148] Blockade runners British investors built small, very fast, steam-driven blockade runners that traded arms and luxuries brought in from Britain through Bermuda, Cuba, and the Bahamas in return for high-priced cotton. The ships were so small that only a small amount of cotton went out. When the Union Navy seized a blockade runner, the ship and cargo were condemned as a Prize of war and sold with the proceeds given to the Navy sailors; the captured crewmen were mostly British and they were simply released.[149] The Southern economy nearly collapsed during the war. There were multiple reasons for this: the severe deterioration of food supplies, especially in cities, the failure of Southern railroads, the loss of control of the main rivers, foraging by Northern armies, and the seizure of animals and crops by Confederate armies. Historians agree that the blockade was a major factor in ruining the Confederate economy. However, Wise argues that they provided just enough of a lifeline to allow Lee to continue fighting for additional months, thanks to fresh supplies of 400,000 rifles, lead, blankets, and boots that the homefront economy could no longer supply.[150] Economic impact Surdam argues that the blockade was a powerful weapon that eventually ruined the Southern economy, at the cost of very few lives in combat. Practically, the entire Confederate cotton crop was useless (although was sold to Union traders), costing the Confederacy its main source of income. Critical imports were very scarce and the coastal trade was largely ended as well.[151] The measure of the blockade's success was not the few ships that slipped through, but the thousands that never tried it. Merchant ships owned in Europe could not get insurance and were too slow to evade the blockade; they simply stopped calling at Confederate ports.[152] To fight an offensive war the Confederacy purchased ships from Britain, converted them to warships, and raided American merchants ships in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Insurance rates skyrocketed and the American flag virtually disappeared from international waters. However, the same ships were reflagged with European flags and continued unmolested.[153] After the war, the U.S. demanded that Britain pay for the damage done, and Britain paid the U.S. $15 million in 1871.[154] Ulysses Grant used river transport and Andrew Foote's gunboats of the Western Flotilla to threaten the Confederacy's "Gilbraltar of the West" at Columbus, Kentucky. Grant was rebuffed at Belmont, but cut off Columbus. The Confederates, lacking their own gunboats, were forced to retreat and the Union took control of western Kentucky in March 1862.[156] In addition to ocean-going warships coming up the Mississippi, the Union Navy used timberclads, tinclads, and armored gunboats. Shipyards at Cairo, Illinois, and St. Louis built new boats or modified steamboats for action.[157] They took control of the Red, Tennessee, Cumberland, Mississippi, and Ohio rivers after victories at Fort Henry and Fort Donelson, and supplied Grant's forces as he moved into Tennessee. At Shiloh, (Pittsburg Landing) in Tennessee in April 1862, the Confederates made a surprise attack that pushed Union forces against the river as night fell. Overnight, the Navy landed additional reinforcements, and Grant counter-attacked. Grant and the Union won a decisive victory – the first battle with the high casualty rates that would repeat over and over.[158] Memphis fell to Union forces and became a key base for further advances south along the Mississippi River. In April 1862, US Naval forces under Farragut ran past Confederate defenses south of New Orleans. Confederates abandoned the city, which gave the Union a critical anchor in the deep South.[159] Naval forces assisted Grant in his long, complex campaign that resulted in the surrender of Vicksburg in July 1863, and full Union control of the Mississippi soon after.[160] Eastern theater Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan took command of the Union Army of the Potomac on July 26 (he was briefly general-in-chief of all the Union armies, but was subsequently relieved of that post in favor of Maj. Gen. Henry W. Halleck), and the war began in earnest in 1862. Upon the strong urging of President Lincoln to begin offensive operations, McClellan attacked Virginia in the spring of 1862 by way of the peninsula between the York River and James River, southeast of Richmond. Although McClellan's army reached the gates of Richmond in the Peninsula Campaign,[163][164][165] Johnston halted his advance at the Battle of Seven Pines, then General Robert E. Lee and top subordinates James Longstreet and Stonewall Jackson[166] defeated McClellan in the Seven Days Battles and forced his retreat. The Northern Virginia Campaign, which included the Second Battle of Bull Run, ended in yet another victory for the South.[167] McClellan resisted General-in-Chief Halleck's orders to send reinforcements to John Pope's Union Army of Virginia, which made it easier for Lee's Confederates to defeat twice the number of combined enemy troops. Emboldened by Second Bull Run, the Confederacy made its first invasion of the North. General Lee led 45,000 men of the Army of Northern Virginia across the Potomac River into Maryland on September 5. Lincoln then restored Pope's troops to McClellan. McClellan and Lee fought at the Battle of Antietam[166] near Sharpsburg, Maryland, on September 17, 1862, the bloodiest single day in United States military history.[168] Lee's army, checked at last, returned to Virginia before McClellan could destroy it. Antietam is considered a Union victory because it halted Lee's invasion of the North and provided an opportunity for Lincoln to announce his Emancipation Proclamation.[169] When the cautious McClellan failed to follow up on Antietam, he was replaced by Maj. Gen. Ambrose Burnside. Burnside was soon defeated at the Battle of Fredericksburg[170] on December 13, 1862, when over 12,000 Union soldiers were killed or wounded during repeated futile frontal assaults against Marye's Heights. After the battle, Burnside was replaced by Maj. Gen. Joseph Hooker. Hooker, too, proved unable to defeat Lee's army; despite outnumbering the Confederates by more than two to one, he was humiliated in the Battle of Chancellorsville[171] in May 1863. Gen. Stonewall Jackson was mortally wounded by his own men during the battle and subsequently died of complications. Gen. Hooker was replaced by Maj. Gen. George Meade during Lee's second invasion of the North, in June. Meade defeated Lee at the Battle of Gettysburg[172] (July 1 to 3, 1863). This was the bloodiest battle of the war, and has been called the war's turning point. Pickett's Charge on July 3 is often considered the high-water mark of the Confederacy because it signaled the collapse of serious Confederate threats of victory. Lee's army suffered 28,000 casualties (versus Meade's 23,000).[173] However, Lincoln was angry that Meade failed to intercept Lee's retreat, and after Meade's inconclusive fall campaign, Lincoln turned to the Western Theater for new leadership. At the same time, the Confederate stronghold of Vicksburg surrendered, giving the Union control of the Mississippi River, permanently isolating the western Confederacy, and producing the new leader Lincoln needed, Ulysses S. Grant. Western theater The Mississippi was opened to Union traffic to the southern border of Tennessee with the taking of Island No. 10 and New Madrid, Missouri, and then Memphis, Tennessee. In April 1862, the Union Navy captured New Orleans,[175] which allowed Union forces to begin moving up the Mississippi. Only the fortress city of Vicksburg, Mississippi, prevented Union control of the entire river. General Braxton Bragg's second Confederate invasion of Kentucky ended with a meaningless victory over Maj. Gen. Don Carlos Buell at the Battle of Perryville,[176] although Bragg was forced to end his attempt at invading Kentucky and retreat due to lack of support for the Confederacy in that state. Bragg was narrowly defeated by Maj. Gen. William Rosecrans at the Battle of Stones River[177] in Tennessee. The Union's key strategist and tactician in the West was Ulysses S. Grant, who won victories at Forts Henry and Donelson (by which the Union seized control of the Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers); the Battle of Shiloh;[178] and the Battle of Vicksburg,[179] which cemented Union control of the Mississippi River and is considered one of the turning points of the war. Grant marched to the relief of Rosecrans and defeated Bragg at the Third Battle of Chattanooga,[180] driving Confederate forces out of Tennessee and opening a route to Atlanta and the heart of the Confederacy. Extensive guerrilla warfare characterized the trans-Mississippi region, as the Confederacy lacked the troops and the logistics to support regular armies that could challenge Union control.[183] Roving Confederate bands such as Quantrill's Raiders terrorized the countryside, striking both military installations and civilian settlements.[184] The "Sons of Liberty" and "Order of the American Knights" attacked pro-Union people, elected officeholders, and unarmed uniformed soldiers. These partisans could not be entirely driven out of the state of Missouri until an entire regular Union infantry division was engaged. By 1864, these violent activities harmed the nationwide anti-war movement organizing against the re-election of Lincoln. Missouri not only stayed in the Union, Lincoln took 70 percent of the vote for re-election.[185] After the fall of Vicksburg in July 1863, General Kirby Smith in Texas was informed by Jefferson Davis that he could expect no further help from east of the Mississippi River. Although he lacked resources to beat Union armies, he built up a formidable arsenal at Tyler, along with his own Kirby Smithdom economy, a virtual "independent fiefdom" in Texas, including railroad construction and international smuggling. The Union in turn did not directly engage him.[188] Its 1864 Red River Campaign to take Shreveport, Louisiana was a failure and Texas remained in Confederate hands throughout the war. End of war Conquest of Virginia Union forces in the East attempted to maneuver past Lee and fought several battles during that phase ("Grant's Overland Campaign") of the Eastern campaign. Grant's battles of attrition at the Wilderness, Spotsylvania, and Cold Harbor[190] resulted in heavy Union losses, but forced Lee's Confederates to fall back repeatedly. An attempt to outflank Lee from the south failed under Butler, who was trapped inside the Bermuda Hundred river bend. Grant was tenacious and, despite astonishing losses (over 65,000 casualties in seven weeks),[191] kept pressing Lee's Army of Northern Virginia back to Richmond. He pinned down the Confederate army in the Siege of Petersburg, where the two armies engaged in trench warfare for over nine months. Meanwhile, Sherman maneuvered from Chattanooga to Atlanta, defeating Confederate Generals Joseph E. Johnston and John Bell Hood along the way. The fall of Atlanta on September 2, 1864, guaranteed the reelection of Lincoln as president.[193] Hood left the Atlanta area to swing around and menace Sherman's supply lines and invade Tennessee in the Franklin-Nashville Campaign.[194] Union Maj. Gen. John Schofield defeated Hood at the Battle of Franklin, and George H. Thomas dealt Hood a massive defeat at the Battle of Nashville, effectively destroying Hood's army. Confederacy surrenders Map of Confederate territory losses year by year Lee surrendered his Army of Northern Virginia on April 9, 1865, at the McLean House in the village of Appomattox Court House.[197] In an untraditional gesture and as a sign of Grant's respect and anticipation of peacefully restoring Confederate states to the Union, Lee was permitted to keep his sword and his horse, Traveller. On April 14, 1865, President Lincoln was shot by John Wilkes Booth, a Southern sympathizer. Lincoln died early the next morning, and Andrew Johnson became president. Meanwhile, Confederate forces across the South surrendered as news of Lee's surrender reached them.[198] President Johnson officially declared a virtual end to the insurrection on May 9, 1865.[1] On June 23, 1865, Cherokee leader Stand Watie was the last Confederate General to surrender his forces.[199] Europe in the 1860s was more fragmented than it had been since before the American Revolution. France was in a weakened state while Britain was still shocked by its own poor performance in the Crimean War.[200] France was unable or unwilling to support either side without Britain, where popular support remained with the Union though elite opinion was more varied. They were further distracted by Germany and Italy, who were experiencing unification troubles, and by Russia, who was almost unflinching in their support for the Union.[200][201] Though the Confederacy hoped that Britain and France would join them against the Union, this was never likely, and so they instead tried to bring Britain and France in as mediators.[200][201] The Union, under Lincoln and Secretary of State William H. Seward worked to block this, and threatened war if any country officially recognized the existence of the Confederate States of America. In 1861, Southerners voluntarily embargoed cotton shipments, hoping to start an economic depression in Europe that would force Britain to enter the war in order to get cotton but this did not work.[202] Worse, Europe developed other cotton suppliers, which they found superior, hindering the South's recovery after the war. Charles Francis Adams proved particularly adept as minister to Britain for the U.S. and Britain was reluctant to boldly challenge the blockade. The Confederacy purchased several warships from commercial ship builders in Britain. The most famous, the CSS Alabama, did considerable damage and led to serious postwar disputes. However, public opinion against slavery created a political liability for European politicians, especially in Britain (which had abolished slavery in her its colonies in 1834).[204] Victory and aftermath Results and costs The causes of the war, the reasons for its outcome, and even the name of the war itself are subjects of lingering contention today. There is much less dispute about the results. Confederate nationalism died. American nationalism triumphed. The North and West grew rich while the once-rich South became poor for a century. The national political power of the slaveowners and rich southerners ended. Historians are less sure about the results of the postwar Reconstruction, especially regarding the second class citizenship of the Freedmen and their poverty. The Freedmen did indeed get their freedom, their citizenship, and control of their lives, their families and their churches. Historians have debated whether the Confederacy could have won the war. Most scholars, such as James McPherson, argue that Confederate victory was at least possible.[206] McPherson argues that the North's advantage in population and resources made Northern victory likely but not guaranteed. He also argues that if the Confederacy had fought using unconventional tactics, they would have more easily been able to hold out long enough to exhaust the Union.[207] Comparison of Union and CSA, 1860–1864[208] Population186022,100,000 (71%)9,100,000 (29%) 186428,800,000 (90%)[209]3,000,000 (10%)[210] Free186021,700,000 (81%)5,600,000 (19%) Slave1860400,000 (11%)3,500,000 (89%) 1864negligible1,900,000 [211] Soldiers1860–642,100,000 (67%)1,064,000 (33%) Railroad miles186021,800 (71%)8,800 (29%) 186429,100 (98%) [212]negligible Arms production186097%3% Cotton bales1860negligible4,500,000 Many scholars argue that the Union held an insurmountable long-term advantage over the Confederacy in terms of industrial strength and population. Confederate actions, they argue, only delayed defeat.[214][215][216] Civil War historian Shelby Foote expressed this view succinctly: "I think that the North fought that war with one hand behind its back ... If there had been more Southern victories, and a lot more, the North simply would have brought that other hand out from behind its back. I don't think the South ever had a chance to win that War."[217] The war produced about 1,030,000 casualties (3% of the population), including about 620,000 soldier deaths—two-thirds by disease, and 50,000 civilians.[219] Binghamton University historian J. David Hacker believes the number of soldier deaths was approximately 750,000, 20% higher than traditionally estimated, and possibly as high as 850,000.[220][221] The war accounted for roughly as many American deaths as all American deaths in other U.S. wars combined.[222] One in thirteen veterans were amputees Remains of both sides were reinterred National cemetery in Andersonville GA Based on 1860 census figures, 8% of all white males aged 13 to 43 died in the war, including 6% in the North and 18% in the South.[223][224] About 56,000 soldiers died in prison camps during the War.[225] An estimated 60,000 men lost limbs in the war.[226] The war destroyed much of the wealth that had existed in the South. All accumulated investment Confederate bonds was forfeit; most banks and railroads were bankrupt. Income per person in the South dropped to less than 40% of that of the North, a condition which lasted until well into the 20th century. Southern influence in the US federal government, previously considerable, was greatly diminished until the latter half of the 20th century.[227] The full restoration of the Union was the work of a highly contentious postwar era known as Reconstruction. Issue of Slavery During the War While not all Southerners saw themselves as fighting to preserve slavery, most of the officers and over a third of the rank and file in Lee's army had close family ties to slavery. To Northerners, in contrast, the motivation was primarily to preserve the Union, not to abolish slavery.[228] Abraham Lincoln consistently made preserving the Union the central goal of the war, though he increasingly saw slavery as a crucial issue and made ending it an additional goal.[229] Lincoln's decision to issue the Emancipation Proclamation angered both Peace Democrats ("Copperheads") and War Democrats, but energized most Republicans.[230] By warning that free blacks would flood the North, Democrats made gains in the 1862 elections, but they did not gain control of Congress. The Republicans' counterargument that slavery was the mainstay of the enemy steadily gained support, with the Democrats losing decisively in the 1863 elections in the northern state of Ohio when they tried to resurrect anti-black sentiment.[231] Emancipation Proclamation The Emancipation Proclamation enabled African-Americans, both free blacks and escaped slaves, to join the Union Army.[232] About 190,000 volunteered, further enhancing the numerical advantage the Union armies enjoyed over the Confederates, who did not dare emulate the equivalent manpower source for fear of fundamentally undermining the legitimacy of slavery.[233] During the Civil War, sentiment concerning slaves, enslavement and emancipation in the United States was divided. In 1861, Lincoln worried that premature attempts at emancipation would mean the loss of the border states, and that "to lose Kentucky is nearly the same as to lose the whole game." [234] Copperheads and some War Democrats opposed emancipation, although the latter eventually accepted it as part of total war needed to save the Union.[235] In 1863, the Union army accepted Freedmen. Here are Black and White teen-aged soldiers. At first, Lincoln reversed attempts at emancipation by Secretary of War Simon Cameron and Generals John C. Frémont (in Missouri) and David Hunter (in South Carolina, Georgia and Florida) to keep the loyalty of the border states and the War Democrats. Lincoln warned the border states that a more radical type of emancipation would happen if his gradual plan based on compensated emancipation and voluntary colonization was rejected.[236] But only the District of Columbia accepted Lincoln's gradual plan, which was enacted by Congress. When Lincoln told his cabinet about his proposed emancipation proclamation, Seward advised Lincoln to wait for a victory before issuing it, as to do otherwise would seem like "our last shriek on the retreat".[237] Lincoln laid the groundwork for public support in an open letter published letter to abolitionist Horace Greeley's newspaper.[238] In September 1862, the Battle of Antietam provided this opportunity, and the subsequent War Governors' Conference added support for the proclamation.[239] Lincoln issued his preliminary Emancipation Proclamation on September 22, 1862, and his final Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863. In his letter to Albert G. Hodges, Lincoln explained his belief that "If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong ... And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling ... I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me." [240] Lincoln's moderate approach succeeded in inducing border states, War Democrats and emancipated slaves to fight for the Union. The Union-controlled border states (Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, Delaware and West Virginia) and Union controlled regions around New Orleans, Norfolk and elsewhere, were not covered by the Emancipation Proclamation. All abolished slavery on their own, except Kentucky and Delaware.[241] Since the Emancipation Proclamation was based on the President's war powers, it only included territory held by Confederates at the time. However, the Proclamation became a symbol of the Union's growing commitment to add emancipation to the Union's definition of liberty.[242] The Emancipation Proclamation greatly reduced the Confederacy's hope of getting aid from Britain or France.[243] By late 1864, Lincoln was playing a leading role in getting Congress to vote for the Thirteenth Amendment, which made emancipation universal and permanent.[244] Northern teachers traveled into the South to provide education and training for the newly freed population. Reconstruction began during the war, with the Emancipation Proclamation of January 1, 1863 and continued to 1877.[245] It comprised multiple complex methods to resolve the war, the most important of which were the three "Reconstruction Amendments" to the Constitution which remain in effect to the present time: the 13th (1865), the 14th (1868) and the 15th (1870). From the Union perspective, the goals of Reconstruction were to guarantee the Union victory on the battlefield by reuniting the Union; to guarantee a "republican form of government for the ex-Confederate states; and to permanently end slavery—and prevent semi-slavery status.[246] President Johnson took a lenient approach and saw the achievement of the main war goals as realized in 1865, when each ex-rebel state repudiated secession and ratified the Thirteenth Amendment. Radical Republicans demanded strong proof that Confederate nationalism was dead and the slaves were truly free. They came to the fore after the 1866 elections and undid much of Johnson's work. They used the Army to dissolve Southern state governments and hold new elections with Freedmen voting. The result was a Republican coalition that took power in ten states for varying lengths of time, staying in power with the help of U.S. Army units and black voters. Grant was elected president in 1868 and continued the Radical policies. Meanwhile the Freedmen's Bureau, started by Lincoln in 1865 to help the freed slaves, played a major role in helping the blacks and arranging work for them. In opposition paramilitary groups such as the first Ku Klux Klan used violence to thwart these efforts.[247] The "Liberal Republicans" argued the war goals had been achieved and Reconstruction should end. They ran a ticket in 1872 but were decisively defeated as Grant was reelected. In 1874, Democrats took control of Congress and opposed any more reconstruction. The disputed 1876 elections were resolved by the Compromise of 1877 which put Republican Rutherford B. Hayes in the White House. He pulled out the last federal troops and the last Republican state governments in the South collapsed, marking the end of Civil War and Reconstruction.[248] Memory and historiography Cherokee Confederates reunion in New Orleans, 1903 Beginning in 1961 the U.S. Post Office released Commemorative stamps for five famous battles, each issued on the 100th anniversary of the respective battle. Civil War commemoration [252] The American Civil War has been commemorated in many capacities ranging from the reenactment of battles, to statues and memorial halls erected, to films being produced, to stamps and coins with Civil War themes being issued, all of which helped to shape public memory. This varied advent occurred in greater proportions on the 100th and 150th anniversary. [252] Hollywood's take on the war has been especially influential in shaping public memory, as seen in such film classics as Birth of a Nation (1915), Gone with the Wind (1939), and Lincoln (2012). See also General reference Ethnic articles Topical articles National articles 1. ^ a b "IMPORTANT PROCLAMATIONS. – The Belligerent Rights of the Rebels at an End. All Nations Warned Against Harboring Their Privateers. If They Do Their Ships Will be Excluded from Our Ports. Restoration of Law in the State of Virginia. The Machinery of Government to be Put in Motion There.". New York: Retrieved 2012-11-19. 2. ^ Fox, William F. Regimental losses in the American Civil War (1889) 4. ^ Official DOD data 6. ^ Territories are organized areas that could potentially become states. 10. ^ "Killing ground: photographs of the Civil War and the changing American landscape". John Huddleston (2002). Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 978-0-8018-6773-6. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 12. ^ See sections below this introduction, including citations in these four: Freehling, William W., The Road to Disunion: Secessionists Triumphant 1854–1861, pp. 9–24, and Martis, Kenneth C., "The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States Congress, 1789–1989", ISBN 0-02-920170-5, p. 111–115, and Foner, Eric. Politics and Ideology in the Age of the Civil War, Oxford U. Press, 1980 ISBN 0-19-502781-7, p. 18–20, 21–24, and Eskridge, Larry (Jan 29, 2011). "After 150 years, we still ask: Why 'this cruel war'?.". Canton Daily Ledger (Canton, Illinois). Retrieved 2011-01-29. 13. ^ Fletcher Melvin Green (1930). Constitutional Development in the South Atlantic States, 1776–1860: A Study in the Evolution of Democracy. U. of North Carolina Press. p. 291. 14. ^ William Earl Weeks (2013). The New Cambridge History of American Foreign Relations. Cambridge U.P. p. 240. 15. ^ Christopher J. Olsen (2002). Political Culture and Secession in Mississippi: Masculinity, Honor, and the Antiparty Tradition, 1830–1860. Oxford University Press. p. 237. 16. ^ Miriam Forman-Brunell, Leslie Paris (2010) "The Girls' History and Culture Reader: The Nineteenth Century". University of Illinois Press. p.136. ISBN 978-0-252-07765-4. "Recognized as a searing indictment of slavery, Gordon's portrait was presented as the latest evidence in the abolitionist campaign. ... Abolitionist leaders such as William Lloyd Garrison referred to it repeatedly in their work." 18. ^ McPherson, "Battle Cry", pp. 88–91. In Gerson, Harriet Beecher Stowe, p. 68; See also Stowe, Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin (1953), p. 39. 24. ^ Vote fraud in Kansas 25. ^ Potter, The Impending Crisis, 299–327. 28. ^ Potter, David. The Impending Crisis, p. 275. 31. ^ Potter, David. The Impending Crisis, pp. 356–384. 34. ^ Schott, Thomas E. (1996). Alexander H. Stephens of Georgia: A Biography. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press. p. 334. ISBN 978-0-8071-2106-1. 35. ^ 36. ^ 40. ^ James McPherson, This Mighty Scourge, pp. 3–9. 45. ^ Clement Eaton, Freedom of Thought in the Old South (1940) 46. ^ John Hope Franklin, The Militant South 1800–1861 (1956). 51. ^ Hofstadter, Richard (1938). "The Tariff Issue on the Eve of the Civil War". American Historical Review 44 (1): 50–55. JSTOR 1840850. 55. ^ Bestor, 1964, pp. 10–11 56. ^ McPherson, 2007, p. 14. 57. ^ McPherson, 2007, p. 14. 58. ^ Stampp, pp. 190–193. 59. ^ Bestor, 1964, p. 11. 60. ^ Krannawitter, 2008, pp. 49–50. 61. ^ McPherson, 2007, pp. 13–14. 62. ^ Bestor, 1964, pp. 17–18. 63. ^ Guelzo, pp. 21–22. 64. ^ Bestor, 1964, p. 15. 65. ^ Miller, 2008, p. 153. 66. ^ McPherson, 2007, p. 3. 67. ^ Bestor, 1964, p. 19. 68. ^ McPherson, 2007, p. 16. 69. ^ Bestor, 1964, pp. 19–20. 70. ^ a b c d Bestor, 1964, p. 21 71. ^ a b c Bestor, 1964, p. 20 72. ^ Russell, 1966, p. 468–469 73. ^ a b Bestor, 1964, p. 23 74. ^ Varon, 2008, p. 58 75. ^ Russell, 1966, p. 470 76. ^ Varon, 2008, p. 34 77. ^ Bestor, 1964, p. 24 78. ^ Bestor, 1964, pp. 23–24 79. ^ Holt, 2004, pp. 34–35. 80. ^ McPherson, 2007, p. 7. 81. ^ Krannawitter, 2008, p. 232. 82. ^ Gara, 1964, p. 190 83. ^ Bestor, 1964, pp. 24–25. 84. ^ Potter, David M. (1962). "The Historian's Use of Nationalism and Vice Versa". American Historical Review 67 (4): 924–950. JSTOR 1845246. 90. ^ David Potter, The Impending Crisis, p. 485. 91. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, p. 254. 92. ^ President James Buchanan, Message of December 8, 1860. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 93. ^ "Profile Showing the Grades upon the Different Routes Surveyed for the Union Pacific Rail Road Between the Missouri River and the Valley of the Platte River". World Digital Library. 1865. Retrieved 2013-07-16. 94. ^ Ordinances of Secession by State. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 96. ^ The text of A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 97. ^ The text of Georgia's secession declaration. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 98. ^ The text of A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 99. ^ Declaration of Causes of Secession. Retrieved 2012-11-28. 103. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 284–287. 109. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, p. 303. 112. ^ a b McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 234–266. 113. ^ a b Schouler, William. Massachusetts in the Civil War, William Schouler. 1868 republished by Digital Scanning Inc, 2003. Retrieved book cover November 28, 2012 114. ^ Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, Monday, March 4, 1861. 115. ^ Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861. 117. ^ Bornstein, David (April 14, 2011). "Lincoln's Call to Arms". Archived from the original on 2011-07-13. Retrieved 2011-08-11. 118. ^ "Lincoln's Call for Troops". 119. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, p. 274. 121. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 276–307. 122. ^ Keegan, "The American Civil War", p.73. Over 10,000 military engagements took place during the war, 40% of them in Virginia and Tennessee. See Gabor Boritt, ed. War Comes Again (1995), p. 247. 123. ^ "With an actual strength of 1,080 officers and 14,926 enlisted men on June 30, 1860, the Regular Army ..." Civil War Extracts p. 199–221, American Military History. 124. ^ Coulter, E. Merton, "Confederate States of America", p.308. Accounts of historians differ as to the date and the agency of the Confederate 100,000-man call. See also Matloff, Maurice (1973). "American Military History". U.S. Army and U.S. Government Printing Office, ISBN 0-938289-70-5, ISBN 978-0-938289-70-8. Retrieved 2012-11-28. , "Secession, Sumter, and Standing to Arms", "... on March 6 the new Confederate Executive, Jefferson Davis, called for a 100,000-man volunteer force to serve for twelve months ..." . See also Civil War extracts, American Military History Online. Retrieved 2012-11-28. and Nicolay, J.G. and Hay, John. Abraham Lincoln: a history, vol. 4, p.264. Retrieved 2012-11-28. "Since the organization of the Montgomery government in February, some four different calls for Southern volunteers had been made ... In his message of April 29 to the rebel Congress, Jefferson Davis proposed to organize for instant action an army of 100,000 ..." Coulter reports that Alexander Stephens took this to mean Davis wanted unilateral control of a standing army, and from that moment on became a implacable opponent. 134. ^ Ella Lonn, Desertion during the Civil War (1928), pp. 205–6. 136. ^ John Keegan (2009). The American Civil War. Knopf Doubleday. p. 57. 137. ^ Michael Perman and Amy Murrell Taylor, eds. (2010). Major Problems in the Civil War and Reconstruction. Cengage. p. 177. 140. ^ Donald L. Canney (1998). Lincoln's Navy: The Ships, Men and Organization, 1861–65. Naval Institute Press. p. ??. 142. ^ Timothy D. Johnson, Winfield Scott (1998) p. 228 143. ^ Anderson, By Sea and by river, p. 288–289, 296–298. 144. ^ Nelson, 2005, p. 92 145. ^ Anderson, By Sea and by river, p. 300 147. ^ Nelson, 2005, pp. 345 148. ^ Fuller, 2008, p. 36 153. ^ Anderson, "By Sea and by river". p.300" 155. ^ Bern Anderson, By Sea and by river, p. 91. 157. ^ Myron J. Smith, Tinclads in the Civil War: Union Light-Draught Gunboat Operations on Western Waters, 1862–1865 (2009) 161. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 339–345. 162. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, p. 342. 164. ^ Bruce Catton, Terrible Swift Sword, pp. 263–296. 165. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 424–427. 166. ^ a b McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 538–544. 167. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 528–533. 168. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 543–545. 169. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 557–558. 170. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 571–574. 171. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 639–645. 172. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 653–663. 173. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, p. 664. 174. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 404–405. 175. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 418–420. 176. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 419–420. 177. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 480–483. 178. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 405–413. 179. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 637–638. 180. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 677–680. 183. ^ James B. Martin, Third War: Irregular Warfare on the Western Border 1861–1865 (Combat Studies Institute Leavenworth Paper series, number 23, 2012). See also, Michael Fellman, Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri during the Civil War (1989). Missouri alone was the scene of over 1,000 engagements between regular units, and uncounted numbers of guerrilla attacks and raids by informal pro-Confederate bands, especially in the recently settled western counties. 187. ^ J. Frederick Neet, Jr. "Stand Watie: Confederate General in the Cherokee Nation," Great Plains Journal (1996) 6#1 pp 36–51. 188. ^ Keegan, "The American Civil War: a military history", p. 220–221 190. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 724–735. 191. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 741–742. 192. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 778–779. 193. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 773–776. 194. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 812–815. 195. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 825–830. 196. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 846–847. 200. ^ a b c McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 546–557. 202. ^ a b McPherson, Battle Cry, p. 386. 203. ^ Allan Nevins, War for the Union 1862–1863, pp. 263–264. 206. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 855. 209. ^ "Union population 1864" aggregates 1860 population, average annual immigration 1855–1864, and population governed formerly by CSA per Kenneth Martis source. Contrabands and after the Emancipation Proclamation freedmen, migrating into Union control on the coasts and to the advancing armies, and natural increase are excluded. 212. ^ Digital History Reader, U.S. Railroad Construction, 1860–1880 Virginia Tech, Retrieved 2012-08-21. "Total Union railroad miles" aggregates existing track reported 1860 @ 21800 plus new construction 1860–1864 @ 5000, plus southern railroads administered by USMRR @ 2300. 213. ^ McPherson, Battle Cry, pp. 771–772. 214. ^ Williamson Murray; Alvin Bernstein; MacGregor Knox (1996). The Making of Strategy: Rulers, States, and War. Cambridge U.P. p. 235. 217. ^ Ward 1990. p. 272 218. ^ Fehrenbacher, Don (2004). "Lincoln's Wartime Leadership: The First Hundred Days". University of Illinois. Retrieved 2007-10-16. 224. ^ Richard Wightman Fox (2008)."National Life After Death". 230. ^ McPherson, pp. 506–8 231. ^ McPherson. p. 686 238. ^ "Lincoln Letter to Greeley, August 22, 1862 " 239. ^ Pulling, Sr. Anne Francis. "Images of America: Altoona, 2001, 10. 240. ^ Lincoln's Letter to A. G. Hodges, April 4, 1864. 241. ^ Harper, Douglas (2003). "SLAVERY in DELAWARE". Archived from the original on 2007-10-16. Retrieved 2007-10-16. 242. ^ " James McPherson, The War that Never Goes Away" 247. ^ Hans L Trefousse, Thaddeus Stevens: Nineteenth-Century Egalitarian (2005) pp 161–238 • Fuller, Howard J (2008). Clad in Iron – The American Civil War and the Challenge of British Naval Power. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press. p. 409. ISBN 978-1-59114-297-3. • Guelzo, Allen C. Fateful Lightning: A New History of the Civil War and Reconstruction (2012) 593pp; covers 1848–1877 excerpt and text search • Keegan, John, The American Civil War: A Military History. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2009. ISBN 978-0-307-26343-8. • Nelson, James L. (2005). Reign of Iron: The Story of the First Battling Ironclads, the Monitor and the Merrimack. New York: HarperCollins. ISBN 978-0-06-052404-3. • Quarstein, John V. (1999). The Battle of the Ironclads. Arcadia Publishing. p. 128. ISBN 978-0-7385-0113-0. • Russell, Robert R. (1966). "Constitutional Doctrines with Regard to Slavery in Territories". Journal of Southern History 32 (4): 466–486. doi:10.2307/2204926. JSTOR 2204926. • Varon, Elizabeth R. Disunion!: The Coming of the American Civil War, 1789–1859. Chapel Hill [N.C.]: University of North Carolina Press, 2008. Reference books, historiography and bibliographies • Woods, Michael E., "What Twenty-First-Century Historians Have Said about the Causes of Disunion: A Civil War Sesquicentennial Review of the Recent Literature," Journal of American History 99 (Sept. 2012), 415–39. Primary sources • John S. Jackman; William C. Davis (March 1, 1997 – Vol. 58, No. Aug 3, 1992). Diary of a Confederate Soldier: John S. Jackman of the Orphan Brigade. University of South Carolina Press. ISBN 978-1-57003-164-9. JSTOR online edition Further reading External links	http://blekko.com/wiki/American_Civil_War?source=672620ff	<urn:uuid:550c4171-b039-4de0-9d9c-a43bbfedb89e>	en	0.926819	0.030781
Take the 2-minute tour × How does human history fit in with the Torah's timeline? Not even worrying about why the universe and Earth look so old, there is extensive evidence of a human population and human civilizations from well before 4000 BCE (i.e. 6000 years ago, there were more than two humans). Human fossils (that is to say Homo sapiens as opposed to other hominids that existed around and well before this time) and artifacts dating back as far as 200,000 years have been found in Africa, Eurasia, and Australia, and more recent artifacts and fossils (still tens of thousands of years old) have been found in the Americas. Egyptian pyramids (and proto-pyramids) were built both before and after the time of the Mabul (Noah's flood) (confirmed by carbon dating) as well as other Mesopotamian and Indus writing forms that are found to be both from before and after the time of the Mabul, as well as proto-Chinese characters that pose evidence of a single evolving culture that spans pre-Creation, pre-Flood, post-Flood, and modern day China. These are just some examples I've found when attempting to research early human history. I can edit this question with sources detailing as much evidence of this as is requested, or I can reference you to Google to find encyclopedia articles and scholarly journals or the Smithsonian's Human Origins Program or something, or we can proceed with the assumption that this is in fact almost universally accepted as confirmed and consistant records of human history. Anyway, I'm having a hard time reconciling this account of human civilization that extends well before Creation and continues steadily even through the Mabul, which should have wiped out civilization, with the Torah. Here are the possibilities I can personally think of or that have been suggested to me with varying levels of support from authoritative sources, but none of them so far work for me: 1. Archeologists and anthropologists (as well as geologists, physicists, cosmologists, biologists, geneticists, and any other line of empirical scientific knowledge that separately and consistently supports it) are part of a massive anti-religious conspiracy. However I think such a massive conspiracy theory is untenable and would be difficult to demonstrate. 2. Archeologists and anthropologists are all a victim of misinformation as during and before the Mabul, life on Earth was so different as to systematically confuse all methods of dating. However this also doesn't make sense to me, as it implies that while life on Earth really is fully recent, that the rest of the universe must actually be really old since we can see objects from billions of light years away, and the Mabul couldn't impact the speed of light. And what's more, if you can only rely on dating from post-Mabul organic matter, then it raises questions about various inconsistencies. If the pyramids, for example, were of a post-Mabul society (as they are known to be), you should not find C14 dating of organic matter found in or with the pyramids to point to anything before the flood. One way or another the pyramids are from before the flood (and civilization there and around the world continues like normal). 3. Hashem wanted to make everything look completely natural so he made Earth with a history. However the known significant human population from well before Adam would mean he was not the first man, and it would go so far as to imply that one should never ever expect any kind of evidence for anything in the Torah which has its own problems. Worse, it would be hard to answer this without painting Hashem as deceitful unless it can be clearly demonstrated from the intended meaning of Talmudic or similar sources that Adam wasn't the first man and that the Mabul didn't wipe out any civilizations. (Actually, I have heard reference to 974 worlds or generations before ours, but when I tried to dig deeper all I found was a Beraisa in Chagigah 14a about them being generations that were not created, but instead that their souls are the wicked among actual generations. And I have also seen reference to Zevachim 113 to say that there is precedent to say the flood was not completely global, but all it brings is a single opinion that makes the exception only for Eretz Yisrael and even then says that everyone there died. That is to say, all cultures, and most evidence of most of the world, would still have been destroyed in the flood.) 4. As referenced in part of my objection to #3 above, this Earth had hundreds of "worlds" living on it before hand and Hashem destroyed them all in preparation of this world. However, while I have heard this claim, I couldn't find anything to back up that such worlds were literally created in a sequential natural form that mirrors the observed natural formation of the solar system and life. The best I found (which is not to say it is good) is an article from Aish that takes the words of Rav Abahu and allows for a vague inference that they did exist on a previous version of this planet that was destroyed to the point it was formless yet still maintains a coherent line of archaeological evidence of human civilization. Or perhaps Aish meant that in some early period of the sixth day there were (somehow and for some reason? I couldn't really follow what they were trying to say) precursors to humans without souls. (I'm also incredulous to the possibility that Hashem would in this way need to make so many living beings and people only to kill them in the process of making Earth, especially when only to recreate everything in six days anyway.) In any event it only could explain the difference between the first six days of creation with human history older than 6,000 years ago without addressing the events that followed like the Mabul. 5. A suggestion by Dr. Gerald Schroeder, who says time, from the point of view of Earth, slowed down dramatically from the point of view of Hashem (who is assumed to have the same time perspective as background radiation), and it is in some particular way calculated that the first day of creation was exactly 8 billion years, the second day 4 billion, and so on. And that this supports an old age of the universe and the formation of the solar system and life over long periods of time. However as far as I can tell, from a perspective of physics, Schroeder is alone in this understanding, and as far as I can tell the same can be said of the Torah perspective. And it would go against the suggestion that the Torah is written in the language of men. And it contradicts the more recent improvements to the estimate of the age of the universe since Schroeder made his calculation around the turn of the century. His calculation also contradicts the order and time that various aspects of the universe, solar system, and life developed. And as is the case with suggestion #4, this only addresses human history before 6,000 years ago. So as you can see I'm having trouble figuring this out. What are some better, or what is the proper, explanation(s) to deal with human history as stated in the Torah and human history as implied by the physical evidence? NOTE: For answers stating that the Torah does not in fact literally mean a global flood or that human history started 6000 years ago: Please cite specific people that say this, preferably older answers based on messorah and not answers that were forced to bend around a context of archeological evidence. If you reference people like Schroeder or Slifkin who bend Torah around science, go further and quote the relevant things they've said along with the older sources they're basing themselves on that allow for such bending. Furthermore, please indicate why this is not taught mainstream (at least in my personal experience, learning about Berashis from various people and sources, I was never taught that human history was before 4000 BCE or that the flood could have left most of Earth undisturbed). If this is the proper understanding, it should be taught as such, I think, rather than cause people to be led astray after finding the literal interpretation to be seemingly incorrect. share\|improve this question @MonicaCellio, I think this might be a duplicate of that first link? – Daniel May 3 '13 at 21:56 @Daniel It's not exactly a duplicate, as it also asks about seeming continuity pre and post mabbul. – Fred May 3 '13 at 22:05 @AL, thanks for clarifying, and sorry for the premature close. I've reopened. – Monica Cellio May 3 '13 at 22:18 @Ariel There were people in Tanach who were exposed to explicit miracles and yet choose to worship avoda zara. Are you trying to make some more nuanced argument? – Fred May 3 '13 at 23:01 show 44 more comments 9 Answers The question seems to be bothered by the issue that archeological records show that people were around much more than 6000 years ago while the genealogy in the Bible would place Adam, the first man, more recently. There are many ways of addressing this. Just as the six days can be explained as not literally being six days, one can explain that the first man existed much more than 6000 years ago. One can also say that Adam the person wasn't actually the father of all mankind (but of a significant group in the area). Rishonim such as the Rambam already discussed the story of Adam as an allegory, so this isn't such a critical issue. The archeological record may show some evidence for a large flood, but not one that wiped out all of civilization and animals on the entire planet. But the flood story can be understood as being a regional flood and one may not need to interpret every detail of the story literally. Some people have explained that the Torah is focused on theological issues, and may not be trying to give an exact description of pre-history. Others have expanded the concept of “dibbera Torah ki-leshon benei adam" to explain why the Torah may have presented early stories in a non-scientific manner. Update: See also some of these articles from Tradition: See also books on this topic, e.g. The Challenge of Creation, by Natan Slifkin. Update 2: The Rambam did not take the "6 days" of Bereishis literally, as well as other details. See More Nevuchim II:30. (C.f. Wikipedia, though it needs some editing and citations.) Also, I don't see what's wrong with re-interpreting something based on archeology. What matters is whether it's a reasonable (or plausible) interpretation, not what motivated it. See the Ramban on the Rainbow (Bereishis 9:12) where he re-interprets a phrase based on the Greeks' explanation of rainbows as a natural phenomena. (He then realizes that this reading actually fits quite well with the text!) More can be said about these specific issues, but יש לו סוד, and the basic idea is to realize the goal of the Torah is to teach the Mitzvoth and certain hashkafic principles. The simple literal meaning of Bereishis is not there to give an fully-detailed historical account of the development of the world from the first moment until Avraham. share\|improve this answer Can you please cite where Rambam said this? I don't have Tradition to look it up. I'm curious how he says Adam was allegorical when the Torah says he was God's first creation of Man, his family, how long he lived, etc. I'm also interested how the he understands the Torah speaking of Adam's children as being "the first to do xyz" which implies that there was not another unmentioned civilization. Can you cite who says the flood should be taken as regional (must have been a small region to leave pyramids and cuneiform) and why it was then necessary to keep countless animals on an ark for a year? – A L May 5 '13 at 4:45 The Torah never says his children were the first to do xyz. It mentions two great-great-great-grandchildren who were the 'fathers' of shepherds and musicians. That is a much easier statement to take allegorically than: X was the first person ever to do Y. – Double AA May 5 '13 at 4:59 @DoubleAA I was short on characters, I meant some of his direct descendants. There is a direct linage, for example, between Adam and Jabal, Jabal being the "first of those who dwell in tents and breed cattle". If the Torah meant that human history is much older than that, you wouldn't expect him to be the first. (In fact, there is evidence he wasn't the first archaeology.about.com/od/domestications/qt/cattle.htm ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC39419/pdf/pnas01511-0621.pdf and ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc1559968 ). – A L May 5 '13 at 5:11 @AL Jabal and his brother are who I referred to in my previous comment. – Double AA May 5 '13 at 5:12 @ArielK The Rambam seems to also factor in how well an idea can fit in to the pesukim. He writes that if Aristotle's ideas were compatible with fundamental tenets of Judaism and if his ideas were proven correct (both of which are not the case), it might then be possible to wrangle the verses in the Torah accordingly. By contrast, the Rambam writes that Plato's idea doesn't undermine tenets of Judaism, and furthermore, verses could readily be reinterpreted to fit this view. So perhaps you are essentially correct, but the Rambam also seems to consider ease of interpretation of the verses. – Fred Sep 11 '13 at 21:03 show 12 more comments It seems that according to Rav Saadiah Gaon as well as Rambam, an old earth is possible. As is the existence of human beings prior to the date Adam was created according to Torah. Another approach is to look at people like Dr Schroder in Genesis and the Big-Bang who argue that as space-time expands from the point of view of a person standing one earth in 2013 the earth appears billions of years old, however, if you were standing and looking from the point of view of the big bang the universe would seem to be a mere 5773 (almost 4) years old. ספר אמונות ודעות - מאמר שביעי - אות א אומר תחלה, כי מן הידוע באמתות הדברים שכל דבר שנמצא במקרא הרי הוא כפשוטו, זולתי מה שאי אפשר לפרשו כפשוטו מחמת אחת מארבע סבות, או מפני שהחוש דוחה אותו, כעין אמרו ויקרא האדם שם אשתו חוה כי היא היתה אם כל חי, והרי רואים אנו השור והאריה שאינם ילודי אשה, לכן צריך שנדע שאין הדבר אמור אלא בבני אדם. או שהשכל דוחה אותו, כאמרו כי ה' אלהיך אש אכלה הוא אל קנא, והרי האש ברואה וזקוקה [לחומר] ופעמים נכבית, ואין השכל מקבל שיהא הוא כך, ולכן מוכרח שתהא מלה נסתרת בלשון שנקמתו כאש אכלה, וכמו שנאמר כי באש קנאתי תאכל כל הארץ. And so I declare, first of all, that it is a well known fact that every statement found in the Bible is to be understood in its literal sense except for those that cannot be so construed for one of the following four reasons. It may, for example, be rejected by the observation of the senses, such as the statement, “And the man called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living” (Gen. 3:20), whereas we see that the ox and the lion are not the offspring of womankind. Hence we must conclude that the implication of the statement embraces human descendants only. Or else the literal sense may be neglected by reason such as that of the statement, “For the Lord thy God is a devouring fire, a jealous God” (Deut. 4:24). Now fire is something created and defective, for it is subject to extinction. Hence it is logically inadmissible that God resemble it. We must, therefore, impute to this statement the meaning that God’s punishment is like a consuming fire, in accordance with the remark made elsewhere in Scripture, “For all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy (Zeph. 3:8) ספר מורה נבוכים - חלק ב פרק כה דע כי אין בריחתנו מן המאמר בקדמות העולם מפני הכתובים אשר באו בתורה בהיות העולם מחודש - כי אין הכתובים המורים על חידוש העולם יותר מן הכתובים המורים על היות האלוה גשם; ולא שערי הפרוש סתומים בפנינו ולא נמנעים לנו בענין חידוש העולם, אבל היה אפשר לנו לפרשם, כמו שעשינו בהרחקת הגשמות; ואולי זה היה יותר קל הרבה, והיינו יכולים יותר לפרש הפסוקים ההם ולהעמיד קדמות העולם, כמו שפרשנו הכתובים והרחקנו היותו ית' גשם. ואמנם הביאונו שלא לעשות זה ושלא נאמינהו - שתי סיבות. האחת מהם - שהיות האלוה בלתי גוף התבאר במופת, ויתחיב בהכרח שיפורש כל מה שיחלוק על פשוטו המופת, ויודע שיש לו פרוש בהכרח; וקדמות העולם לא התבאר במופת, ואין צריך שיודחו הכתובים ויפורשו מפני הכרעת דעת שאפשר להכריע סותרו בפנים מן ההכרעות; וזה - סיבה אחת. והסיבה השנית - כי האמיננו שהאלוה בלתי גשם לא יסתור לנו דבר מיסודי התורה, ולא יכזיב מאמר כל נביא, ואין בו אלא מה שיחשבו הפתאים שבזה כנגד הכתוב - ואינו כנגדו, כמו שבארנו, אבל הוא כונת הכתוב! אבל אמונת הקדמות על הצד אשר יראה אותו אריסטו, שהוא על צד החיוב, ולא ישתנה טבע כלל ולא יצא דבר חוץ ממנהגו - הנה היא סותרת הדת מעיקרה, ומכזבת לכל אות בהכרח, ומבטלת כל מה שתיחל בו התורה או תפחיד ממנו - האלוהים, אלא יפורשו האותות גם כן, כמו שעשו בעלי התוך מן הישמעאלים ויצאו בזה למין מן ההזיה. אמנם אם יאמן הקדמות לפי הדעת השני אשר בארנונו - והוא דעת אפלטון - והוא, שהשמים גם כן הוים נפסדים - הדעת ההוא לא יסתור יסודי התורה ולא תמשך אחריו הכזבת האותות, אבל העברתם, ואפשר שיפורשו הכתובים על פיו, וימצאו לו דמיונות רבות בכתובתי ה'תורה' וזולתם, שאפשר להתלות בהם, וגם יהיו לראיה. אבל אין ההכרח מביא אותנו לזה, אלא אם התבאר הדעת ההוא במופת; אמנם כל עת שלא יתבאר במופת, לא זה הדעת ניטה אליו, ולא הדעת ההוא גם כן נביט אליו כלל, אבל נבין הכתובים כפשוטיהם, ונאמר, כי התורה הגידתנו ענין, לא יגיע כוחנו להשגתו, והאות מעיד על אמיתת טענותינו: WE do not reject the Eternity of the Universe, because certain passages in Scripture confirm the Creation; for such passages are not more numerous than those in which God is represented as a corporeal being; nor is it impossible or difficult to find for them a suitable interpretation. We might have explained them in the same manner as we did in respect to the Incorporeality of God. We should perhaps have had an easier task in showing that the Scriptural passages referred to are in harmony with the theory of the Eternity of the Universe if we accepted the latter, than we had in explaining the anthropomorphisms in the Bible when we rejected the idea that God is corporeal. For two reasons, however, we have not done so, and have not accepted the Eternity of the Universe. First, the Incorporeality of God has been demonstrated by proof: those passages in the Bible, which in their literal sense contain statements that can be refuted by proof, must and can be interpreted otherwise. But the Eternity of the Universe has not been proved; a mere argument in favour of a certain theory is not sufficient reason for rejecting the literal meaning of a Biblical text, and explaining it figuratively, when the opposite theory can be supported by an equally good argument. Secondly, our belief in the Incorporeality of God is not contrary to any of the fundamental principles of our religion: it is not contrary to the words of any prophet. Only ignorant people believe that it is contrary to the teaching of Scripture: but we have shown that this is not the case: on the contrary, Scripture teaches the Incorporeality of God. If we were to accept the Eternity of the Universe as taught by Aristotle, that everything in the Universe is the result of fixed laws, that Nature does not change, and that there is nothing supernatural, we should necessarily be in opposition to the foundation of our religion, we should disbelieve all miracles and signs, and certainly reject all hopes and fears derived from Scripture, unless the miracles are also explained figuratively. The Allegorists amongst the Mohammedans have done this, and have thereby arrived at absurd conclusions. If, however, we accepted the Eternity of the Universe in accordance with the second of the theories which we have expounded above (ch. xxiii.), and assumed, with Plato, that the heavens are like wise transient, we should not be in opposition to the fundamental principles of our religion: this theory would not imply the rejection of miracles, but, on the contrary, would admit them as possible. The Scriptural text might have been explained accordingly, and many expressions might have been found in the Bible and in other writings that would confirm and support this theory. But there is no necessity for this expedient, so long as the theory has not been proved. As there is no proof sufficient to convince us, this theory need not be taken into consideration, nor the other one: we take the text of the Bible literally, and say that it teaches us a truth which we cannot prove: and the miracles are evidence for the correctness of our view. share\|improve this answer A few notes. Dr. Schroeder's work, while popularized, has way too many flaws for me to consider it as part of an answer, and it doesn't address the problem of human civilization continuing straight through the flood. The rest of your answer is very similar to Ariel K's answer, but that would require putting whole swaths of Bereishis and Noach in the realm of allegory well beyond any precedent set by Rav Saadiah Gaon or the Rambam. I may be willing to consider that possibility, but see my question here judaism.stackexchange.com/q/30158/1947 for that issue more in depth. – A L Jul 26 '13 at 18:46 I'd also be interested in knowing your take after considering this relevant blog post: machzikeihadas.blogspot.com/2009/04/… – A L Jul 26 '13 at 18:51 I think that what you are saying is that it is impossible to read the first 2+ chapters of breishit as literal if you also wish to consider science to be factually describing history. I agree with you. Rambam IS saying that you can read the first 3 chapter of breishit as allegorical. He says it explicitly, he only feels that Aristotle failed to make a convicing case. If modern astrophysicists did make a convincing case then Rambam would have read breishit as allegorical. – Eytan Yammer Jul 26 '13 at 19:00 We will probably have to be moved to a discussion and not questions and answers but I will respond in part here: I think that machzikei daat rejects assertions by saying that the tone of Rambam or Saadiah Gaon are hyperbolic or exagerating. It is an fine opinion.In the end there are 3 options: except that there are sections of the torah which are allegorical, accept that science is wrong, attempt to make the 2 match. In this case option 3 is impossible and 2 is unpalletable in my mind one is the best answer and fits nicely with legitimate understandings of early texts – Eytan Yammer Jul 26 '13 at 19:13 Just taking this approach where you have to drastically reinterpret descriptions of events to match reality, a problem is that then what does it teach on the pshat level? A lie if anything. Who would make the case that the first 11 chapters are meant to be devoid of any pshat meaning if not absolutely forced to? – A L Aug 30 '13 at 4:04 show 7 more comments R' Aryeh Kaplan z'l teaches as follows: R' Nehunia ben Hakana brings in Sefer Temuna that there are larger shmita cycles of 7000 years each, of which we are now in the 6th, putting the age of the earth at 42,000 years old. Midrash states that a "Divine day" is like 1000 years. Therefore a "Divine year" is 365,250 years. R' Yitzchak of Acco - who investigated and authenticated the Zohar Hakadosh - held that the shmita cycles of Sefer Temuna were "Divine years", arriving at a figure of 15,340,500,000 years as the age of the universe. While actually a little longer than current scientific theories, this figure - reached about 800 years ago - is remarkably close. Given this, we can extrapolate that Adam Harishon was distinct in some way from whatever beings preceded him. As for the flood, are you assuming that our current geological knowledge is flawless? Maybe we just don't know what to look for as an aftereffect of a miraculous event. share\|improve this answer Is one of those aftereffects the tossing of certain species from the ark to Australia and nowhere else, and the tossing of other species to Canada and nowhere else? Did God just forget to tell us that part of the story? – Double AA Sep 17 '13 at 5:20 Can you clarify: does he think the earth is 15 billion years old or the universe is? If the latter, what exactly was going on in the first four shemittos when there was no earth? – Double AA Sep 17 '13 at 5:22 According to this theory, what happened to all the pseudo-humans who lived before Adam? Did the disappear when Adam was created? Did they last until the Flood? – Double AA Sep 17 '13 at 5:29 I seriously doubt God held of Shmuel's Tekufa in calculating His years. He would have used something more precise. – Double AA Sep 17 '13 at 5:34 @yoel Please don't treat "science" as some massive piece of tradition with every tentative consensus being in the same playing field with the most firmly demonstrated laws. Archeologists not finding remains in a large desert confirming one event is very different from geologists, geneticists, and archeologists demonstrating that what we find is entirely inconsistent with the flood story. I'm confused why you think that miracles involved would suddenly make it as if the physical events associated with it appear to have never happened at all. – A L Sep 17 '13 at 18:35 show 18 more comments First of all, carbon-dating isn't all that accurate. There are a number of considerations which can affect the apparent age of a substance. For example, if temperatures 4000 years ago were warmer than we think, things might seem older than they really are. Furthermore, the massive amount of boiling water moving around in the flood could have caused major to changes to everything buried in the ground, again affecting the carbon ratio. When archaeologists calculate try to determine how old a civilization is, they often make extensive use of records kept by those civilizations. However, there is no guarantee of their accuracy. If a king wanted everyone to think he ruled for 100 years, he could have the scribes write that, and future generations would never find out that he only ruled for 5 years. In general, historians, archaeologists, and scientists have only limited data about what happened thousands of years ago. So they make plausible guesses to connect the pieces of evidence that they find. There's very little certainty, so they settle for "highly likely". While this often leads them to reach correct facts, occasionally they end up with statements that contradict the Torah. They could easily revise their theories to fit with the Torah (their evidence would still work), but few of them believe that the Torah is completely true, so they don't bother. share\|improve this answer The question doesn't discuss stars. Why do you? Isn't this not an answer because it's claiming a giant conspiracy of ancient record keepers? How do you deal with his question from the pyramids? Your claims about carbon dating do not answer it. This answer seems more like handwaving than a detailed argument. – Double AA 4 hours ago It's not a giant conspiracy of record keepers, it's simply that accuracy may have been prized less back then. Real scientific, precise history with rigorous research is relatively recent. The linked article provides a lot of information about carbon-dating accuracy problems; I can try to find more free online scientific sources if you'd like. – Ypnypn 3 hours ago add comment some things are not reconcilable at the present time and with our present knowledge. I think this is one of them. Main thing is to decide whether the torah is of divine origin. One who studies the torah in-depth will see that its depth and wisdom is infinite. Beyond the ability of a man's finite mind to invent. One can see the same marks of infinite wisdom in studying nature, hence he can deduce that the One who created the Universe is also the One who wrote the torah. Then you won't be bothered by the need to reconcile everything with the torah. It doesn't answer the question the way you wanted, but I think it's the best we can do until things will be clearer in the future be'H share\|improve this answer add comment according to the bible, god told adam not to eat from the tree of life, which seems to have happened on adam's first day, it would be hard to say that god instructed, and then punished a baby. hence you must conclude that according to the bible, adam was created a full-grown man, if so we can say god created a full-grown world, one with a history to humanity, with fossils, and evolution and what-not, perhaps we will discover causes for deaths of pre-bible humans, however the world was still created 5774 years ago. this is my own theory, i have not seen this written anywhere, or heard this from anyone. but it seems perfectly logical to me. share\|improve this answer This mainly addresses the "age of the universe" problem which really isn't my focus, and it doesn't address the problems as they relate to the flood. – A L Sep 17 '13 at 5:11 The question is about the flood, not Adam. Unfortunately, it avoids the two answers frequently said by the Rebbe, that 1. The flood could have changed the speed of nuclear decay and 2. Hashem created the world old. – Shmuel Brin Sep 17 '13 at 5:12 @AL yes it does, but it also addresses the history of the universe, including human civilization. – tryingToGetProgrammingStraight Sep 17 '13 at 5:12 @ShmuelBrin the rebbes answers are nice, however they dont mean there cant be another way of explaining things. – tryingToGetProgrammingStraight Sep 17 '13 at 5:15 Last Thursdayism is the idea that the whole world are build last Thursday, just that it comes with history. The idea is so ridiculous but cannot be disproved. So saying that God created the world in 6 days 4k years ago with "history" will be as ridiculous as last Thursdayism. – Jim Thio Sep 23 '13 at 3:01 show 12 more comments Maybe this explanation can add to a result. The word "eretz" means "land" as well as "earth". And this is wrong. It doesn't actually mean both as in "those two", it means both as in "they are the same". Our ancestors 4000 years ago did not know that the earth was round or how big it was. For them it was just the thing they stood on that wasn't water. What the Torah says is ultimately true. It's not a lie to make people understand, it's the plain truth. It's also old and was written in an ancestor of Hebrew and included (true) stories told in mesopotamic languages including East-Semitic and Sumerian. When the Torah tells us that the entire eretz was flooded that was literally true, for a value of "eretz" that equals "all the land between the mountains and the see", namely the region that people then actually did call "eretz". Mesopotamia used to flood quite often. It would be surprising to learn that Noah of all people had not lived through one of those. So yes, it was indeed a regional flood, but no, Torah did not tell us a lie. All the land was flooded because land outside Mesopotamia was never included in "all the land". As for other events told in the Torah, recall that those two happened a long time ago. Who knows what those words meant back then, particularly units. A "mile" is not the same distance in England and Germany, why would a "shana" be the same unit of time? Assuming that the story of Adam and Eve is literally true, who can tell whether it is literally true in the naive way that we read into it now thousands of years after it was first recorded in, presumably, Sumerian and then ultimately by Moses in Hebrew as spoken and understood by people 3000 years ago. It's possible that the story was quite clear to people at the time and as they understood it did not at all contradict anything we found out about the world or will ever find out. It's just that we are too far removed from the society that first heard the story. "X ran for President" can be literally true yet mean something else to us than to someone who knows what the word "run" means but not what an election is. I find it inconceivable that the Tanakh wouldn't be full of linguistic problems like that. Just think of the "an eye for an eye" debacle of how plain easy sentences can be misunderstood by applying the wrong template to reading them. share\|improve this answer 1. You're making assertions about what the Torah meant without supporting them. 2. Units of distance are arbitrary; the length of the year is universally obvious and consistent. 3. Why would you assume Sumerians myths are true? The first men lived hundreds of thousands of years before Sumer existed. 4. It's much easier to understand old language than language of the future, for the former has been known and the latter is an unknown construct. The Torah wasn't written for people 3,000 years ago, it was written for all generations. 5. Maybe this isn't the most appropriate day for an answer. – A L Jul 16 '13 at 18:32 Actually, I said that I didn't know what the Torah meant. I am not making assertions what the Torah meant. The length of the year is consistent, but there is no reason to assume that it would be the common way to give an age in all cultures. Some use months. I assume Sumerian myths are true because I find them in the Torah. It's not "much easier to understand old language" and the "future" has nothing to do with it. And the Torah remains written in ancient Hebrew, even if it is meant for all generations. – Andrew J. Brehm Jul 16 '13 at 20:57 What I mean is you're trying to presume what the Torah means about what "land" refers to. Even if it refers to what ancient Israelites thought of as "all the land" the initial problems of civilizations surviving there persist. And, for example, you seem to be saying that any myth common to Sumerians and the Torah is based on a true story, I certainly appreciate the answer, but I need something concrete before I can accept it. – A L Jul 17 '13 at 6:06 I am deducing what the Torah means about land based on my knowledge that the ancient Hebrews did not know (or even care) that the earth was a round planet. Their concept of "land" was different from ours and did not differentiate between "land" and "earth". When the true nature of the planet became known there were two ways to read the word, and I am sure that reading it as "planet earth" is wrong since the other reading does not contradict scientific evidence. – Andrew J. Brehm Jul 17 '13 at 8:25 Either way it contradicts scientific evidence; your view simply contradicts it in a smaller region, but it also contradicts pretty much all the commentaries. Unless you're talking about the outskirts of the black sea being flooded thousands of years earlier or a worse-than-average annual river flooding in Sumer or Mesopotamia, neither of which seems to fit the verse. – A L Jul 17 '13 at 18:24 show 6 more comments You seem to pose several questions at the end which I will attempt to answer first To rephrase your question as I see it: Why are most institutions not teaching a non-literal reading of the bible? Answer: Creation is taught as fable to make it easier to understand for children. This is true of many midrashim as well. The fact that many (most?) people don't revisit their understand in adulthood may be more an indictment of how the Jewish education encourages and prepares students to be intellectually curious than a problem with how specific subject material is taught. Regarding your overall question: I have heard from Rav Moshe Stav, and educator at Yeshivat Kerem B'Yavneh that the story of creation and the flood is described in the gemarah as K'vod Elokim haster davar (Proverbs 25:2) - meaning, as he put it, that the events as recorded should not be taken at their simple face value reading. Moreover Rav Kook (Igrot HaRaayah no. 134) makes a very astute comment regarding matters in the torah which seem to be contravened by scientific discovery (his context was dealing with the theory of evolution) Concerning opinions which are derived from recent scientific investigations which on the whole contradict the straight forward meaning (pshat) of the words of the Torah: “In my opinion … even though these theories are not necessarily true, we are not at all obligated to deny them and stand against them. This is because it is not at all (stress mine-HH) the point of the Torah to inform us of simple facts and occurrences of the past. The main point (‘ikar) is the inner content (tokh). … For us it is of no consequence whether in fact there ever existed in this world a golden age (i.e. the Garden of Eden – HH) in which mankind lived in spiritual and physical bliss or [not]… and thus when we have no vested interest we can judge [these new theories ] fairly.” The particular understanding of creation which I support is that of Rabbi Matis Weinberg, who did not cite earlier sources. Essentially, he contends that Adam was the first homo sapien imbued with divine spirit. Meaning that from a technical perspective Adam had a mother and father, and that there were plenty of other people around when he was born (yes he had a navel). Maaseh Bereshis is then describing theological ideas couched in metaphor. To editorialize a bit, even as a child I was taught that the purpose of the Torah is teach proper theological belief and action, not to serve as a historical document. Perhaps not enough people take that statement to heart early on in their education. share\|improve this answer Rashi's point that the Torah's purpose isn't to relate history is predicated on the problem that the Torah is relating historical information. If you "take to heart" that the Torah isn't historical then you have missed his point. – Yirmeyahu Aug 30 '13 at 15:21 @Yirmeyahu I am not stating that there is not historically accurate information found in the torah, rather the the purpose of the document is other than to convey 100% historically accurate information at all times. – please remove my account Aug 30 '13 at 15:30 Thank you for addressing the question of education. But it's not just about children, it's basically universally expressed as being history, not fable, to anyone other than those who make the effort to investigate the issue. Secondly, can you quote where the gemara says that Parshas Noach isn't history? Everything I've seen in the gemara tries to explain the details as very real. – A L Aug 30 '13 at 18:51 @ShmuelBrin the question is does it really matter? Iyov is part of tanach even though there is an opinion that the actual historical events never took place. – please remove my account Sep 3 '13 at 13:21 this seems to be the opinion of Rav Kook as well. I will edit my answer to reflect this. morethodoxy.org/2013/09/16/… – please remove my account Sep 16 '13 at 16:19 show 19 more comments One way to reconciling Biblical history with archaeological and historical evidence which seems to disprove it is to simply throw the Bible out as a text created by man, not by God. Though this is not a useful answer for everyone, Judaism has an important religious principle, developed by many important philosophers and scholars, such as Ibn Ezra, Maimonides, and Spinoza, that the Torah speaks in the language of man (dibra tora ki'lshon bnei adam). There is a long tradition of the concept of accommodation, that is to say that the Torah was written in such a way as that those who received it would understand it. Maimonides writes about the reasoning for sacrifices in this manner, that they existed because that is what the ancient Israelites expected to have from a religion. Spinoza has a different take on this, that the Torah is written in the language of "children" (in this he looks down upon the Biblical text and wants to say that for people living in the modern age it is no longer necessary or applicable). [NB: For a much more in-depth discussion of the notion of accommodation and how it came to be used in both Judaism and Christianity, see Amos Funkenstein, Theology and the Scientific Imagination.] However one wants to take the notion of accommodation, it is very applicable to the Bible and can be useful to understand how it came into being and to reconcile the Biblical histories with the evidence. For example, one can talk about the flood story as a story that transcends cultures. It most likely did not happen in the exact manner that the Bible tells us, but in the ancient near east, flooding rivers were a yearly occurrence. In fact, a year without a flood was a worse disaster than if there was a massive one. My point is, the story of the flood can be seen as coming out of the ancient Israelites' cultural context in the ancient near east and Abraham's origins in Mesopotamia, which the Bible attests. As for other historical elements such as the Exodus (for which there is no archaeological evidence) or the counting of years anno mundi (from the origin of the world) it is much more difficult. Ultimately one needs to decide if it is necessary to completely correlate Biblical history with secular history. If the whole thing is an allegory or metaphor, it may still have valuable moral or cultural importance. share\|improve this answer This explanation is that of Reform Judaism and not exactly what I was hoping for. To say the Torah relates lies just so people "get it" is a stretch. Do you suppose that when the Torah says that God rejected Cain's sacrifice but accepted Hevel's sacrifice that this story was written just so the Jews would be happy? But sacrifices are to return in the Third Temple even though the notion of animal sacrifice is looked upon as barbaric. And many commandments clearly contradict what was normal for people of the time. Even the Pesach lamb sacrifice went against the Egyptian culture they came from. – A L May 4 '13 at 0:40 @AL It's not such a stretch. Did you want it to say "In the beginning, 13.7 billion years ago, the scalar inflation field expanded by 47 orders of magnitude, then began cooling adiabatically into a quark-gluon plasma"? How would the desert Jews have interpreted that? – Double AA May 5 '13 at 1:16 @DoubleAA That sentence is unnecessarily complicated. You can also say "In the beginning many many years ago there was a big fire which sent ashes everywhere and those ashes rained down and became the world." The desert Jews could understand that, and it's not inaccurate (it's just not complete). But Hashem did not say that. – Ariel May 5 '13 at 2:19 @Ariel Once we're not aiming at precision, I'll leave it up to the Big Guy to decide what's the best simplification for us. Remember that knowing exactly how matter made shift X or developed attribute Y historically is not really useful for humans today except perhaps in its allegorical meaning. (And yes, that last sentence is true even if you take the beginning of Genesis very literally.) – Double AA May 5 '13 at 2:22 @DoubleAA What I said was a stretch is that God might command us to sacrifice animals just because we were used to doing that, or, for example, there was no global flood and that the Torah would say things that contradict reality just to make it more understandable. Meaning, if you were to suggest that Noah's flood never was global but rather a regional flood and the Torah only was worded thus to make it understandable, it is a stretch to think that nobody would understand it if the Torah would say "There was a local flood that desolated the surrounding region due to the sins of the people." – A L May 5 '13 at 3:43 show 13 more comments Your Answer	http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/28441/how-are-pre-creation-4000-bce-human-civilization-and-pre-flood-2300-bce-civili	<urn:uuid:a417eaf4-8b12-4226-bca3-1aca4674a564>	en	0.947473	0.497477
Take the 2-minute tour × I hesitate to ask this question, but I read a lot of the career advice from mathOverflow and math.stackexchange, and I couldn't find anything similar. Four years after the PhD, I am pretty sure that I am going to leave academia soon. I do enjoy teaching and research, but the alpha-maleness, massive egos and pressure to publish are really unappealing to me, and I have never felt that I had the mathematical power to prove interesting results. However, I am really having trouble thinking of anything else to do. Most people seem to think that the main careers open to mathematicians are in banking and finance. I really want to work in some field where I can use mathematics, but it is also important to me to feel like I am contributing something positive or at least not actively doing harm. For this reason, financial speculation is very unappealing to me, although I do find the underlying mathematics quite fascinating. Here is my question: what careers which make a positive contribution to society might be open to academic mathematicians who want to change careers? share\|improve this question @aengle: Ah, but is the NSA really a force for good? ($$ducks away$$) – anon Oct 12 '11 at 3:07 If you are good at programming, how about working at a company that designs mathematical software? – KCd Oct 12 '11 at 3:09 +1 just for the cool question title :D – JoséNunoFerreira Oct 12 '11 at 11:23 "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Batman The Dark Knight – Peter Sheldrick Oct 12 '11 at 12:42 @PeterSheldrick: That wasn't Batman; that was Harvey Dent! – jwodder Oct 12 '11 at 16:08 show 22 more comments 25 Answers If you are in the US, there are several thousand institutions of higher learning, and at many of them there is very little "pressure to publish". At others, the "pressure to publish" can be met by publishing a textbook or some work of scholarship that does not require proofs of interesting (original) results. High schools also need qualified Mathematics teachers. Consider staying in academia, just moving to a different part of it, as an option for using your powers to do good. I suspect, but cannot be sure, that much of what I've written applies outside the US as well. share\|improve this answer Thanks for your answer. I did work for a year in a liberal arts college, but I wasn't an unqualified success. I would definitely consider a liberal arts career, but unfortunately we don't really have such colleges outside the US. High school has already been eliminated from my search. I do like the idea of writing a textbook, though; I am quite good at thinking up interesting examples, and that's something I would really like to do one day! – Flounderer Oct 12 '11 at 3:30 I'm not sure why you are stating that high school is out of the equation. I had a math teacher in a similar situation as you were: he taught at a college, had more degrees than fingers, helped write SAT, ACT, AP tests, etc... He was one of the most popular teachers, and was a fantastic teacher. In 18 weeks he covered all but one chapter of what I ended up "learning" in Calc 1 & 2 in college -- and it never felt like we were moving too fast. You can do a lot of good by teaching in a high school, you just need the right situation. – Scott Oct 12 '11 at 10:57 In the US, most people in the OP's position would, by technicality alone, be "unqualified" to teach at most K-12 schools because few people with PhDs in mathematics haven't gone through the unnecessary macaroni-art-making tedium that is an (American) university education course. As the old saying goes, Bill Gates is "not qualified" to teach computer science (or business, for that matter) to high-schoolers: forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls/messages/topic/… – user5137 Oct 12 '11 at 18:44 @Scott - I didn't rule out high school teaching because I don't think it's a worthwhile career. On the contrary, I think it's one of the most important jobs in the world. However, I have enough experience to know that I personally am not good at it, and enough experience of bad teachers in high school to know that people who are not good at teaching should never become teachers! – Flounderer Oct 12 '11 at 20:36 @JackManey: Many American high schools are in such need of qualified math/science teachers that they're willing to forgo the "teaching certificate" and accept other credentials. – Ben Voigt Oct 13 '11 at 23:17 show 2 more comments Procedural world generation and AI in the field of games development needs people like You(!) to forward the state of the industry from the drivel we see today. It is as creative as it is technically challenging, and in my forays in this field (disclaimer: as someone generally mathematically inept), I have seen the use of a broad spectrum of mathematics and logic; to name just a few such applications: • Diffusion equations for chemical detection in AI (such as simulating a sense of smell and pulling AI entities along the gradients created by these equations toward their goals) • Radiosity algorithms using eg. Lambert's equations in realtime raycasting • Fluid dynamics using cellular automata • Graph theory for generating planar connected world graphs, including such aspects as finding and eliminating Kuratowski subgraphs • Combinatorics in evaluating corner cases for constructive solid geometry applications • Statistical modelling and analysis for game rules balancing • Minkowski sums in opening sufficiently broad paths for navigation during world generation • Spatial quantisation and subdivision as a general optimisation • Quaternions to RK4 integration to Delaunay's triangulations in physics and geometry • Combinatorics, probability theory and general statistics in projecting the emergent outcomes of complex systems • Probability theory in random number generation eg. Mersenne Twister • Formal grammars in narrative and physical object construction (eg. Lindemayer systems) • And more mathematics applicable to broader field of computer programming, such as analysing and reducing computational complexity. This is a very haphazard and sparse collection of applications, so forgive me but my knowledge of the very existence of many of these areas has come from a game designer/developer's perspective. In any case, this list goes on ad infinitum for all practical purposes, considering that modelling worlds draws from every known field, from demographics to hydrodynamics to geomorphology to psychology to genetics to narratology... with mathematics being what all of these have in common. The spectrum in game development is vast, because you are modelling the mechanics of worlds / universes, according to the processing contraints of the system(s) you are developing for -- this latter part is where the real challenge comes in, and a broad, sound understanding of mathematics becomes even more necessary to apply new optimisation tricks. A sprinkling of some of my favourite places on the www, which may give you some insight into the breadth I'm talking about: • Infinity, generating galaxies from the top down. • Miguel Cepero's blog about his as yet unnamed, procedurally generated voxel-based world. • An interview with the author of Dwarf Fortress, describing how various aspects of the world were modelled (from history to geography to psychology). • A collection of pages on procedural generation of mazes (graph theory). • A video showing some emerging technologies in the virtual worlds arena. I would speculate that it is far easier to be a trained mathematician and become a good programmer, than the reverse. In many ways I would rather be in your shoes, reading my post, than vice versa. Of course that's assuming that this is a convincing argument in terms of changing career direction! If this does interest you even remotely, don't let what they say about games put you off. The line between games, traditional linear narratives, sandboxes for physical and AI experimentation, educational products ("serious games") and so on, is blurring at a rapidly accelerating rate. The vast majority of games, I would say all but less than 1%, are the same old rehashed tripe. But there is enormous potential for creativity, the more so for those with a strong mathematical background, as evidenced by some of the links above. I think there is something very positive in giving people new and inspiring spaces in which to play, relax and learn. P.S. If my use of terms doesn't make sense, please correct me on every point, I joined this site to improve my mathematical knowledge and your criticism is welcome. share\|improve this answer That's a very interesting answer, thanks. I have written some interactive fiction in my spare time, but unfortunately I am not a skilled programmer. My brother kind of does this stuff - I think he works on light and shadows in games. – Flounderer Oct 12 '11 at 20:52 I'm glad to offer some insight. Computational geometry (probably a large part what your brother does) is a fascinating field in and of itself, and a huge part of procedural world generation. BTW I added another link in the post, to a video showing some emerging techniques/technologies in virtual worlds. Best of luck on your path to better things. – Nick Wiggill Oct 12 '11 at 22:06 This is one insanely cool answer. Though I know math is incredibly useful thing I sometimes feel whats its use. When I feel like that again I will come and read this. This gives me hope. – Pratik Deoghare Apr 12 '12 at 21:13 @PratikDeoghare Your comment makes me glad that I put the time into writing this answer. It is the greatest honour to inspire even a single person. I think that our world is full of wonder, full of things yet-to-be-done, and I hope that will never change. – Nick Wiggill Apr 12 '12 at 21:54 Making games is cool, and I can totally see how it would appeal to someone. But when a mathematician talks about working for "social good," I think of things like DNA sequencing to fight disease, or mitigating global warming. Improving computer gaming probably isn't exactly working on one of the world's big problems. – DanB Oct 28 '12 at 16:02 show 4 more comments You could go into operations research and work in the nonprofit/humanitarian sector. While OR has traditionally been applied to problems in business and industry, the nonprofit and humanitarian world has started to use it more and more in recent years. There are even interesting research problems being generated because the constraints and objectives in the nonprofit world don't always boil down to the same kinds of mathematics that constraints and objectives in the business world do. INFORMS (the Institute for Operations Research and the Management Sciences) has been promoting this lately under the slogan "Doing Good with Good OR." A recent issue of the INFORMS journal Interfaces was devoted to humanitarian applications of OR; check it out to get some ideas for ways to use your powers for good. Or do a search on "Doing Good with Good OR" for more ideas. share\|improve this answer add comment I found myself in a similar situation just over a decade ago: two years after PhD in mathematics, disenchanted with academia, and needing to make ends meet. My own choice was to go into computing (specifically, I'm now a software engineer). A mathematician of any stripe will find this field easy to pick up, and some of the skills gained in completing the PhD -- in particular, meticulousness, precision, and tenacity -- are of monumental import. I've worked on software in several different fields: mechanical engineering (aerospace), nuclear energy, finance, and Child Protection Services, among others. My job satisfaction is very high; I only wish I'd gone into it earlier. A final, more general note: your options are vast and wide, much broader than you'd expect. I'd suggest looking into fields where the style of your mathematics is particularly applicable, and where you'd be both interested and happy. Software engineering has special attraction for me because (a) my area of math was combinatorics, and (b) I have a penchant for fixing problems and simplifying structural models. Best of luck! share\|improve this answer Thanks! I like your answer. My problem is that whenever I ask people how they got into software engineering, it turns out that they already knew many programming languages before they applied for jobs, and I really struggle with programming. Could you perhaps give some more details of how you switched fields? – Flounderer Oct 12 '11 at 20:56 A close friend who also had a PhD left academia for software engineering almost immediately after graduation; his STEM field required an enormous amount of FORTRAN programming, so it was an easy move for him. He began at once to persuade me to leave academia as well, and he finally succeeded. A few handshakes later, and I had a job waiting at the end of the semester. I took the time that semester which would normally have been devoted to research, and instead purchased two How To programming books and a compiler, and taught myself enough about the craft to get started in the new career. – Paradox Oct 13 '11 at 14:17 may I ask which books you used? I have been learning some Python recently and using it to do a few calculations, but my knowledge is very basic and I'd like to develop my programming further. – Flounderer Oct 13 '11 at 20:20 @Flounderer hey programming is easy, you will just find first programming language a little bit tough and then it will be easy, I will also suggest you python. So you want to know that which book is better? Any one, you are new comer , so I guess you get some thing from any book only thing require is don't stop once you start.Go to python.org and there are many resources, free tutorials and recommended books so hang with it. Or if want to do web programming then goto w3schools.com/php after installing xampp. Or for any other learning you can also check lynda.com – Hafiz Oct 15 '11 at 9:07 W3Schools.com is filled with inaccurate information. See w3fools.com. I would instead recommend buying a book or codecademy.com / alternativeto.net/software/codecademy. – Olivier Lalonde May 26 '13 at 5:23 show 1 more comment Have you read the book 'Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman?' The great physicist suffers a similar problem to what you describe - having worked on the atomic bomb, he felt 'burned out' and unable to do further physics. Somehow, he wasn't able to interest himself, and work with the same vigour as before. He then took the approach not to work to any reasonable gain, but to enjoy physics! To enjoy messing around with it, calculating things of no use to anyone. And he found that suddenly, he had his hunger back. Think about why you went into this profession in the first place. Surely you love maths? Well, enjoy it now, as you enjoyed it when you were a small child. And you never know, your work may turn out to be useful (in Feynman's case, he won a noble prize for it). And even if you choose to ignore everything else said, read the book. It's a great read. share\|improve this answer For example, here. – Did Oct 12 '11 at 18:18 Thanks for the recommendation. It's one of those books that I've never read because everybody else reads it, a bit like the movie "Titanic". I'm not really burned out - I am still doing research. It's just that I am soon going to be out of a job and need to find something to do. – Flounderer Oct 12 '11 at 20:59 +1 for this meaningful answer. Thanks! – Cinco Sauces Jul 24 '13 at 11:28 add comment Don't write off the finance industry. If you are confident you can avoid your own self-corruption there is no need to think you can't have an amazing impact on the world by working in finance. There are many areas of finance that add tremendous stability to society and are a good thing (for example, insurance). Mathematicians are able to provide the models and techniques that mean these things can be fair and sustainable as a business. The finance industry will teach you what things are worth investing in and what things are a waste of time and money. Lots of firms and organisations are incredibly wasteful and stunted in potential because they do not know how best to organise their money. Someone smart like you can learn important skills to take elsewhere to solve these problems. As a mathematician you'll enter straight away into one of the more lucrative verticals of the banking sector. Give yourself ten years to make as much wealth as possible then leave. You'll have the experience and capital to set up a business/charity you believe in. share\|improve this answer Insurers like AIG..? – Chris Taylor Oct 12 '11 at 13:53 It should be pointed out that the considerable majority of mathematicians hired in finance are "quants", who are pretty much used to generate money for their company, through things like statistical arbitrage if necessary. If you work for a financial firm, if you are asked to do something you can't refuse based on humanitarian grounds, and most of those companies will attempt to maximize their profits in any legal way they can. There might be exceptions of course, but creating fair and sustainable business is not their goal, and they admit this. – Zarrax Oct 12 '11 at 14:58 @Rasmus - From wikipedia - "AIG is an American multinational insurance corporation" and was at the center of the 2008 financial crisis and needed to be bailed out as it presented systemic risk to the entire financial system (and then the bailout was directed to companies like Goldman that profited richly off the crisis). They employed many mathematicians/physicists/etc as "insurers" who did anything but provide stability to the financial system. Old-fashioned actuarial work is fine; but finance is for making the rich richer. – dr jimbob Oct 12 '11 at 16:13 Insurance companies and investment banks don't use mathematicians to act more fairly, they use math in order to maximize their profits. Also the OP requested ways to find a job involving math that in some way helps the world. Your advice to sell out and then start a charity, in my opinion, does not respond to the OP appropriately. – Matt Calhoun Oct 12 '11 at 20:25 Furthermore, I have a suspicion that the reason these firms hire so many ivy-league math/physics phds with little financial training (and pay so well) is largely a cover story (we have a 100 Ivy PhDs so thats why we were profitable). You have an algorithm that generates millions of trades that balance out to average market movement, so you can sprinkle some very profitable trades based on inside information without detection. Granted you have to work very hard to get your algorithm to balance out (its much easier to write losing algorithms), so its not stress free either. – dr jimbob Oct 13 '11 at 5:54 show 5 more comments A lot of responses to this question are more upbeat than I think is warranted. Many answers give detailed lists of uses of mathematics in a way that suggests the writer has no experience actually hiring people out of academia to meet those needs. There is an awful lot of "fields X, Y, and Z need people to do math, so you can probably get a job doing that." The irony is that this attitude is most common within academia. Most people who will assume that a math PhD with no job experience outside of academia is good for something, to the point of paying them to work on an applied problem, are in academia--- in bioengineering, machine learning, and other fields that people have recommended. The point I would underline here is that these people work in universities and if you want to get into these areas, you will have to stay in academia, at least a little. The experience of a researcher at a university in some applied area is very different from the experience of a professor of pure mathematics. For example there are often fewer teaching duties (e.g. lab supervision, instead of teaching large classes--- or no teaching duties at all). And there are more options for sources of outside funding--- unlike in most of math, where if you don't get a grant from a government agency that funds math, you aren't getting a grant. But there will still be publishing papers, and you will still spend the majority of your time with people who share their social characteristics more with other academics than they do with the general population. Academia isn't the only culture with negative aspects. If you look for a private sector job, you will find that most people--- even in very technical companies--- are not open to hiring people with no private sector experience and no personal connections for non-entry-level jobs. And they aren't open to hiring PhDs for entry level jobs (you are "overqualified"). At many companies, it's not "we do a lot of mathy stuff, so math PhDs can help a lot," but "we do a lot of real world stuff here, and anybody who spends decades buried in textbooks won't know anything about that." For example, unless you have an easily documented and publicized history of programming (e.g. contributions to open source projects, or reasonably self-contained projects that you can make public and stick on a personal website), most companies will not give you a second look for any software engineering job. Even if you've done a ton of programming, you will never get a chance to show it, because most companies will not call a math PhD back on the off chance they can do something useful. Say what you will about academia, but if you apply to an academic research group whose work has some mathematical flavor, they are much more likely to actually give you a chance. Someone linked a talk by Cathy O'Neil in another answer. It contains good advice, but recall that this was a talk given at MIT. Cathy O'Neil has a PhD from Harvard and research experience at MIT. Her first work post-academia was at D. E. Shaw. It is reasonable to assume that she does not have any experience with the obstacles that confront the average academic who wants to transition into something else. She writes: "being really [flipping] good at math is considered a superpower by the people outside. This is because you can do stuff with your math that they actually don’t know how to do, no matter how much time they spend trying." These are the words of someone who has had a very atypical experience in transitioning from academia to the private sector (granted, given the audience of the talk, it is reasonable to assume that most of the audience will be atypical also). People coming out of academia who are not coming from the absolute top schools, with the connections that often come from that, are generally not greeted as superheroes by the private sector. (I want to make clear: I'm not criticizing Cathy here, or suggesting that she hasn't worked hard to get where she is. It's just a lot harder to do what she has done than you might think, reading only her words and not considering the context.) I would say: if you want to get a mathy job, unless you have a documented history of things that are of immediate relevance to the private sector, or professionally useful personal connections in the outside world--- stay in academia, but switch fields to an applied area (lots of good suggestions have been given here). After a few years, you may have connections that can help you transition to a mathy job outside of academia, or at least a broader resume that people might be more inclined to take seriously. I don't mean to be negative here--- you probably should be taken seriously as you are now. But outside of academia, in my view, the odds are that you won't. share\|improve this answer Thank you for giving a more downbeat answer. I have been looking for a job for quite a while (while doing teaching jobs, but with one eye on leaving academia) and I agree that some of the other answers are way too idealistic. – Flounderer Oct 25 '11 at 2:52 I agree with the overall insights mentioned here. Connections are supremely important! – fouryear Jan 16 '13 at 11:26 "And they aren't open to hiring PhDs for entry level jobs (you are "overqualified")." Do you have any evidence to back this claim? A maths PhD I know got 4 job offers in entry-level finance, probably the in the top 5% in terms of success. – Jase May 24 '13 at 14:10 Also is worth mentioning that those "level entry" jobs can be really terrible jobs. It's important before taking the decision talk with sector workers, know the average times of advances in the chosen career path and be sure that worths the effort. – bduran Jan 25 at 14:02 add comment I've seen people in pure math who wanted to switch fields while saving the world get postdocs in biostatistics or bioinformatics. This was a few years ago when these fields were especially "hot" but I would guess it's still true. There were many expanding labs and research groups and they would often take people switching from other fields. If you go into these fields, epecially bioinformatics, you may end out doing a lot of programming, so be sure this is something you'd be comfortable with. Another option would be to get a masters degree, or even go for a second PhD if you can stand it. But I don't think you should have to go this far. If you are into programming you could try working for a company that does mathematical software, as KCd suggested. share\|improve this answer Wolfram Research for somebody who doesn't want to work for evil companies is the funniest suggestion I have heard in a while. – Alex B. Oct 12 '11 at 4:51 I have no reason to think they're evil. Maybe you know something I don't. – Zarrax Oct 12 '11 at 5:04 @Zarrax: You can get some sense perhaps from this review of Wolfram's book NKS, which is an interesting read regardless (at least I assume this is what Alex B. is referring to). The relevant paragraph is the one that begins "The real problem with this result, however, is that it is not Wolfram's." – Zev Chonoles Oct 12 '11 at 6:32 Ack, I just realized my comment above could be interpreted as saying NKS is an interesting read; that was not my intention (I suppose I have no comment, not having read it myself). I meant the review is an interesting read, regardless of the fact that only a minor section of it reflects on what it would be like to work at Wolfram. – Zev Chonoles Oct 12 '11 at 16:43 @mt_ It really was like that. People with math and programming backgrounds with no prior bioinformatics background were getting postdocs. Don't forget the field was quite new at the time and it didn't take long to get up to speed. Even professors in bioinformatics sometimes started in pure math such as combinatorics and switched pretty quickly. – Zarrax Oct 12 '11 at 20:48 show 7 more comments The difficulty here is that "a positive contribution to society" turns out to be quite a subjective thing. So even if you feel other people might know what you mean, there's lots of space for confusion and disagreement. I can tell you what I did with my maths (across the UK / NW Europe). I've tried to make a positive contribution to society, by my own standards. Your mileage may vary. I've designed photovoltaic systems. I've been an urban transport planner and modeller. I've been an energy analyst, and created models for local, national and international clean-energy supply and demand. My work has cut across engineering, physics, politics, economics, sociology, psychology, urban design and architecture. There are still plenty of gaps in all these fields; for example, for clean-energy modelling, it would be very useful to have a simulation package that could produce plausible patterns of insolation, rainfall and wind, at continental scale, and that which reproduced real-world temporal and spatial correlations, at the level of minutes to years. Note that you're unlikely to use PhD-level maths in many places at all: there's a trade-off between depth of maths used, and number of options open to you. Good luck. share\|improve this answer May I ask how you got your first job doing this type of work? It seems to me that these types of firms generally require a lot of prior experience. How would a fresh graduate get started? – Antonio Vargas Mar 19 '12 at 7:38 @AntonioVargas I took a very very junior job in a photovoltaics firm. I used most of my spare time to read the technical literature. I networked continually - saving up my own money to go to the right conferences. And I was lucky. – EnergyNumbers Mar 19 '12 at 8:12 add comment Consider a career working for a publisher of technical books. Like Springer or Birkhauser. Be a force for good mathematics! Years ago just after I finished my PhD I spent a week as a taxi driver (I don't recommend this career choice) -- technically I was helping with a conference and shuttling participants around. One of the people I met (the wife of the principal speaker) was a publisher working for Birkhauser. I mentioned that I still hadn't found "the job" and she suggested coming to work for her. They are always in need of someone with the ability to edit/correct/deal with mathematically technical texts. I didn't take her up on the offer, but have thought about it at times. The idea of sitting around reading and discussing math texts all day sounds...well...like goofing around on math.stackexchange.com :) My second suggestion (this one's probably already been suggested) is join the Peace Corps for a few years. I met a "semi-retired" mathematician last year who joined the Peace Corps and went off to Africa (for an adventure). You would probably end up training math teachers in a foreign country. share\|improve this answer Do you have any idea what the job market is like in academic publishing right now? Just curious, as your experience was "years ago", and a lot of editing/correcting/dealing with mathematically technical texts these days is done at what residents of most Western countries would consider extremely low cost, by people who do not own property or pay rent in Western countries. I don't mean to criticize the career choice--- the OP should look into it--- but I think the OP will find it much harder to find a reasonable job offer than you apparently did. – leslie townes Oct 24 '11 at 22:31 add comment I am surprised no one has suggested you could start collaborating with the scientists working on the Azimuth Project. I was initiated by the renowed mathematical physicist John Baez. He recently stopped working on $n$-categories and their applications in physics to start "... help saving our beleaguered planet". He now works at the Centre for Quantum Technologies in Singapore (this is their website). The azimuth project focusses on tackling the various environmental problems we are currently facing, including, but not limited to: global warming, extinction, deforestation, ocean acidification, dead zones, the water crisis and peak oil. Everything is more elaborately and carefully explained in the links I provided you with and the links within the websites to which the links will direct you. I believe this project is an overwhelmingly noble initiative and in my opinion, you would certainly use your powers for "good" if you started working on it. share\|improve this answer add comment there are a set of skills required for 'data scientists' that drawn mainly from math topics like graph theory and statistics. I'm not sure if this fits your ethos requirements though. You'll have to figure it out by yourself. more reading: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27201/#.TpW-IJsr2so share\|improve this answer add comment I also hesitate to give this answer but here it goes. You do not have to work in the most obvious jobs to help the society. As a mathematician you must be fully aware of the fact that many useless looking abstract mathematical tools turned out to be extremely useful in practice only later. Besides how do you know that education is helping the society where we have an increasing evidence that our educational system is very wrong. So in reality, you might be doing the exact opposite what you wish initially i.e. making people love math and make them suffer by a pursuing a degree among those mean and arrogant alpha-males (Exaggeration police was here! But you can see this,this and especially this for the fun of it). Moreover, you might do more good if you really love your subject and create a use of it. Many concepts like Street-Fighting Mathematics and Freakonomics showed that the academia is missing something that is truly crucial for its self-sustained dignity. The relevance. By relevance, I don't mean that poem starting with math is pure, would you know that it is relevant from the start. I know what R&D departments do, because I worked for quite some time in one particular industry. Hence, I know how to measure how much of my work will be complete fun and useless (for the time being) and how much of it will spin-off to something that would be good for a product. Same holds for the academia, you can't expect every single person to publish and turn everything upside down with one 3-page article. Some people don't want to publish anyway. Some people love to get their hands dirty and work on applied math problems which most of them are not even publishable. Some even go into private companies and carry on their stuff applied to a special (and possibly boring but, hey who cares) practical problem (Not to mention the Google's PageRank). Long story short, you would better off if you follow nobody's instincts but yours. Try to materialize your career plan with the given limited resources and surplus of happiness that it provides. Sounds cliché but it became a cliché, in the first place, for a reason. By itself, it is a damn hard problem. So you might work on it as a mathematician starting from the Lagrangian :P share\|improve this answer add comment You may want to consider moving to a country where there is a lack of trained mathematicians. I'm sure that many of these countries have the problem of their best minds being drawn away by exciting overseas opportunties. The universities in these countries are probably less focused on research and more focused on the pragmatic task of upskilling their workers. share\|improve this answer Thanks, but I live in one of those countries. It's not that easy. – Flounderer Oct 12 '11 at 21:00 But you didn't said you want to be easy... just to be good – woliveirajr Oct 13 '11 at 18:53 add comment Why not apply your math skills to Machine Learning or AI? The IT industry is starving for people like this. Check out www.ml-class.org as just one example Stanford is doing to help bring more ML to the industry. It's right up a mathmatics background alley! share\|improve this answer add comment Your main assets are your ability to learn new topics and analyze complex problems quantitatively. These can be applied to any number of fields, some of which were mentioned above. Try by searching for job openings as an algorithm developer and similar titles. Often requirements will include a Ph.D. in mathematics or a related field. Such jobs are often exploratory and include writing a prototype using either mathematical utilities such as Matlab, Mathematica or R, or programming languages such as Perl, Phyton, C. These prototypes either serve as an internal research tool or as a starting point for distributed software components. Indeed, machine learning is often used and it would be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the approach and even gain some hands on experience, e.g, via the online course mentioned above by @Mech. share\|improve this answer Thanks for the search term! That was a helpful answer. – Flounderer Oct 18 '11 at 23:59 add comment I skimmed through the answers and didn't see this mentioned already, but have you considered working for an entity involved in making mathematical education resources available online? There's a huge gap between what current technology could allow us to do in mathematics education and what is currently being done. One could argue that mathematics education will likely be very, very different ten to twenty years from now. One site that has recieved a lot of attention and funding is Khan Academy, but I am sure there are lot more initiatives taking place around the world. Imagine a world where the same group of mathematicians no longer spend each semester giving the same (often uninspired) lectures on college algebra and introductory calculus, because high quality lectures and supporting material are freely available online. Instead, classroom time is used to give individual attention to each student's current state of progress, and research mathematicians spend more of their teaching time supervising undergraduate research projects instead of explaining the perils of dividing by zero to students who are busily texting their friends their plans for Friday night. When you're done having this nice dream, go out and find a job where you can help make this a reality! :) share\|improve this answer The Khan academy is great! I actually watched a bunch of their finance videos and learned quite a lot. I also watched some of the calculus videos and gained some valuable insights into teaching ... I even almost got a job by copying some of the things that Khan did! – Flounderer Jan 10 '12 at 4:27 In the US, there's Big Pharma, there's Big Tobacco, and there's also Big Education. This is a business of selling nicely wrapped hollow products to school districts -- little if anything has changed in 50 years since Feynman's chapter in Surely You're Joking. To feed this industry and give it a semblance of an academically solid one, there's a sister area of mathematics education. If you have observed a downward trend in math preparedness of your undergrads over the past 5-10-20 years, thank these guys. I doubt that you are welcome in their world. – StasK Feb 12 at 4:37 add comment You might want to look into holography related fields, which are mathematical complexity bound, but have the potential to change a great deal of how we interact with the world. Beyond TV and Movies, computer generated holograms have uses in everything from medical imagery, geographic data representation and remote visualization. We are at our core visually driven creatures, and so having an enhanced way of visualizing data, whether real or artificially generated, has a huge impact on our ability to comprehend and react to the world around us. Dare I say it, but the ability to present data more dynamically is a world changer. There are companies out there investing in the technology needed to make mass market holographic devices, and with good reason: We quite literally have all the technology required to do holography, and the only thing preventing holographic visualization from becoming the norm is the ability to do the math efficiently. share\|improve this answer add comment I really appreciate that you are asking such a question. I suggest looking into non profits, and using an organization like Data Without Borders for guidence: http://datawithoutborders.cc/ share\|improve this answer add comment Use your skills to help improving cryptographic algorithms in projects such as Tor, BitTorrent and Bitcoin. share\|improve this answer how can we apply for this job? – user42912 Apr 21 '13 at 10:09 Isn't it Bitcoin instead of BitCoin? – Pacerier Dec 1 '13 at 7:14 add comment Being an actuary is a good job, always ranked as one of the top jobs based on things such as salary and stress level. If you find the right company, you can work 40 hours a week and get paid a lot of money, while working on something that is necessary to culture (car insurance, for example). As someone who is good at math, you could pass 2 or 3 exams in a few months. You wouldn't want to do more than that until after you start a job, because companies don't want to pay someone with no experience a huge extra amount of money. If you have much experience with probability, you could probably pass the first one with very little study, possibly none at all depending on how much experience you have. share\|improve this answer Not to mention, according to a recent survey, the actuarial profession has a 0.0 percent unemployment rate (see collegiatestandard.com/?p=1736 for example). Seriously though, I have heard the actuarial job market recently is doing quite well. – Zarrax Jan 5 '12 at 19:27 Thanks for taking the time to reply to such an old question! I've been looking into this one for a few months, although one actuary to whom I spoke did seem very surprised that a PhD would want to become an actuary. On the other hand, I have friends who have done it. Of the financial professions, this is definitely the one which attracts me the most. I am having a hard time finding entry-level positions, though. – Flounderer Jan 10 '12 at 4:30 add comment I am currently a PhD student in robotics and AI, and it seems to me that the field is thirsty for good mathematicians, to counterbalance the vast majority of heuristic-minded engineers (like myself). In fact, the main reason why I am a part of this community is because my work often leads to interesting mathematical systems that are beyond my ability to analyse (e.g. this one, why not use the opportunity to advertise my own question? :-)). I find the field very appealing and I can see it being used as a force for good, such as in medicine and healthcare, personal care, search and rescue, and the like. Of course, there is always the argument that what you contribute to could eventually be used in military technology, but I guess that makes you as guilty as the person who invented the knife is for all the stabbings that happen. That being said, I have made a decision never to work directly on military applications. In this way you could remain in academia, but I'm fairly sure that you would have an easier time publishing, because the mathematics involved will be simpler that what you are dealing with at the moment. At the same time, you will get to meet lots of interesting people of both genders (less alpha-maleness), as the field is probably one of the most inter-disciplinary around. Apart from the obvious engineers and computer scientists, you get psychologists, linguists, biologists, philosophers (for robot ethics), and people from pretty much every other science that you can think of. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do! share\|improve this answer add comment Cathy O'Neil gave a talk at MIT entitled "Math in Business" last week; she summarizes that talk in this blog post. There may be some ideas here. share\|improve this answer add comment I'm not sure these areas have been mentioned already. I would outline two areas that are beneficial for the society and interesting for mathematicians: cancer research and computer virus propagation. They are closer than one might think, applying tools from probability theory such as Markov chains, stochastic processes, limiting distributions, equilibrium states, optimization, etc. You will be able to help a lot of people and maybe even save lives. share\|improve this answer add comment Google? Microsoft Research? Some funky startup? share\|improve this answer Any evidence for Google hiring "pure math-ers"? – Pacerier Dec 1 '13 at 7:21 add comment protected by Zev Chonoles Oct 12 '11 at 16:44	http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/71874/can-i-use-my-powers-for-good/71974	<urn:uuid:1e8ecc48-b9cc-4908-8eee-722f6a474196>	en	0.965993	0.121273
Chapter 2 The Diverse Visual Class Structure In the first chapter, we talked about how the construction of a framework like WPF is much like the construction of a house. If you don’t know why certain things are built the way they are, you are likely to use them improperly and break something. This chapter is all about the tools you use when building your house. Every craftsman (including programmers!) knows that picking the right tool for the job is essential to the success of the project. If you use a tool that has too much power, you’re likely to break something or punch a hole through a wall. Go with something that doesn’t have enough power and you won’t be able to get the job done either. WPF provides a rich and diverse set of classes that allow you to create everything from simple visuals to complex layered visuals and components. This is possible because of the precision with which the class structure of WPF was built. There are dozens of tools, but it is up to you to pick the right one for the job. Each class has a specific purpose and unique strengths that separate it from other classes. This allows us to mix and match classes to fit our particular needs. Figure 2.1 shows the visual hierarchy of classes that we examine in detail in this chapter. Figure 2.1 The visual classes. Introducing the Visual Classes WPF has a rich, diverse set of building blocks and tools that you can use to create amazing interfaces. Knowing which tool to use and when to use it is absolutely invaluable to creating next-generation applications. What follows is a brief overview of the most important classes in WPF. These are the classes that you will use most often as you progress through this book and as you create your own applications. The DispatcherObject Class The DispatcherObject class can be found in the System.Windows.Threading namespace. It provides the basic messaging and threading capabilities for all WPF objects. The main property you will be concerned with on the DispatcherObject class is the Dispatcher property, which gives you access to the dispatcher the object is associated with. Just like its name implies, the dispatching system is responsible for listening to various kinds of messages and making sure that any object that needs to be notified of that message is notified on the UI thread. This class does not have any graphic representation but serves as a foundation for rest of the framework. The DependencyObject Class The DependencyObject class provides support for WPF’s dependency property system. The main purpose behind the dependency property system is to compute property values. Additionally, it also provides notifications about changes in property values. The thing that separates the WPF dependency property system from standard properties is the ability for dependency properties to be data bound to other properties and automatically recompute themselves when dependent properties change. This is done by maintaining a variety of metadata information and logic with the DependencyProperty. DependencyObject also supports attached properties, which are covered in Chapter 6, “The Power of Attached Properties,” and property inheritance. The DependencyObject class is part of the System.Windows namespace and has no graphic representation. It is a subclass of DispatcherObject. The Visual and DrawingVisual Classes The System.Windows.Media.Visual abstract class is the hub of all drawing-related activity in WPF. All WPF classes that have a visual aspect to their nature are descendants in some way from the Visual class. It provides basic screen services such as rendering, caching of the drawing instructions, transformations, clipping, and of course bounding box and hit-testing operations. While the Visual class contains a tremendous amount of useful functionality, it isn’t until we get down to the DrawingVisual class in the hierarchy that we start seeing concrete implementations that we can work with. DrawingVisual inherits from ContainerVisual, a class that is designed to contain a collection of visual objects. This collection of child visuals is exposed through the Drawing property (of type DrawingGroup). DrawingVisual is a lightweight class specifically designed to do raw rendering and doesn’t contain other high-level concepts such as layout, events, data binding, and so on. Keep in mind the golden rule of this chapter: Pick the right tool for the job. If you need to simply draw graphics and the extent of user interaction with that object is simple hit testing, you can save a lot on overhead by using DrawingVisual. A great example of where DrawingVisuals would be an excellent choice is in a charting application. You can build a variety of charts by using the drawing primitives such as lines, beziers, arcs, and text and fill them with colors using a solid brush or even more advanced fills such as linear and radial gradients. You might be wondering what to do for your charting application if you need the charts to be data bound. You see more about how to do this later, but remember that the output of processing a data template can be simple drawing visuals, allowing you to create data-bound charts that produce only the functionality you need. Listing 2.1 shows an example of drawing a sector in a chart. In charting terms, a sector is a closed region that looks like a pizza slice. It has two straight lines that form the two sides of a triangle, but the last piece of the shape is closed by an arc rather than another straight line. When rendered, the preceding class creates a visual that looks like the one shown in Figure 2.2. Figure 2.2 A sector visual class. Retained Mode Graphics Remember that WPF is a retained-mode graphics system, which means all of the drawing instructions are cached and you do not need to call any kind of update graphics API to force a visual refresh, as in an immediate mode graphics system. Although the API around DrawingVisual and DrawingContext resembles something you find in an immediate mode graphics system, beware of using it like one. You should never have to call any kind of update-my-graphics API to force a visual to redraw. If you have done any graphics programming for other platforms before, the concept behind the DrawingContext class should be pretty familiar to you. It is essentially an entry point into the conduit between your code and the actual rendered pixels on the user’s monitor. As WPF is a retained graphics system, it caches all the drawing instructions and renders them whenever a refresh is required. The DrawingContext is used as the cache from which these instructions are picked up. In the preceding code, we start by building the geometry of the sector using the StreamGeometryContext. We then use the DrawingVisual’s RenderOpen method to obtain a reference to the current DrawingContext instance and draw the geometry. The DrawingContext class contains methods for drawing lines, rectangles, geometry, text, video, and much more. Using these methods, you can build up a shape like the sector in Listing 2.1. While the DrawingVisual class is ideally suited to scenarios in which you just need to do basic drawing and hit testing, it still needs a container that is responsible for placing those graphics on the screen. One such container is the FrameworkElement class. The FrameworkElement Class System.Windows.FrameworkElement derives from UIElement, which actually provides the core services such as layout, eventing, and user input that are used by rest of the framework. Although UIElement is a public class you would typically not derive from it. Instead, the FrameworkElement makes a better choice since it exposes the previous services (that is, layout, styles, triggers, data binding) in a user-customizable way. FrameworkElement is also a lightweight container host for a set of visuals. Because it is a descendant of UIElement it is free to participate in the logical tree and can provide container support for more primitive visual elements (such as the DrawingVisual from the preceding example). The FrameworkElement class can be used in the following ways: 1. Provide simple visual representations of data by overriding the OnRender method. 2. Compose custom visual trees, making the FrameworkElement an excellent container class. 3. Provide custom layout logic (sizing and positioning) for the contained visuals. 4. A combination of the above. For the pie slice control to be displayed onscreen, we need to build a container in which the SectorVisual class (refer to Listing 2.1) is the lone visual child, as shown in Listing 2.2. The Spine Inside the WPF team, a specific term is used for the set of classes comprised of DispatcherObject, DependencyObject, Visual, UIElement, and FrameworkElement. They call it the Spine and rightfully so. It is the backbone of WPF and provides the solid foundation to build more advanced functionality. It is worth pointing out that the preceding VisualContainer class could also have been a subclass of UIElement instead of FrameworkElement, since it is not doing any custom layout. A FrameworkElement is best suited when you also want to provide custom sizing and positioning of elements, data binding, and styles. The Shape Class The Shape class provides yet another mechanism to enable primitive drawing in WPF applications. If we already have the DrawingVisual, which we have seen can be used to draw lines, arcs, and “pie slice” wedges, what do we need the Shape class for? The Shape class actually provides a level of abstraction slightly above that of the DrawingVisual. Rather than using the primitives of the DrawingContext as we have already seen, instead we can use the concept of geometry to determine what is going to be drawn. As a developer creating a custom shape, you use the DefiningGeometry property on your custom shape class. This geometry defines the raw shape of the class, and other properties such as the stroke, stroke thickness, and fill determine the rest of the information needed to render the shape. If you have ever used shapes, strokes, and fills in Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator, these concepts should already be familiar to you. Whatever you create using DefiningGeometry can also be done using the more primitive DrawingVisual class, but using the geometry allows your custom shape class to be inserted more easily into a logical tree, making it more flexible and more amenable to reuse and packaging. Shape is a subclass of FrameworkElement, a base class used by most container-type classes such as Panel to render child elements. This lets Shape instances participate in the layout pass and allows for easier event handling. Shape also defines the Stretch property, which allows you to control how a shape’s geometry is transformed when the dimensions of the Shape object change. Figure 2.3 illustrates a sector shape and how it can be transformed automatically using the Stretch property. Figure 2.3 Stretching a shape’s DefiningGeometry. Taking the previous example of the sector and upgrading it this time to inherit from the Shape class, we end up with the code in Listing 2.3. As you can see from the preceding code, the construction of the shape is exactly the same as constructing a visual-based sector. The difference here is that for a Shape we stop after creating the geometry and setting that to the DefiningGeometry property. With the SectorVisual, we must both construct the geometry and render it. The core difference is basically a difference in responsibilities. The Shape knows how to render itself in its container using the geometry defined in DefiningGeometry. When creating a shape’s defining geometry, the most commonly used geometry classes are PathGeometry, StreamGeometry, GeometryGroup, or CombinedGeometry. You learn more about these types of geometry in more detailed examples later in the book. The Text Classes Developers often overlook fonts when they are digging in their toolbox for something to get the job done. WPF actually has robust support for drawing text, laying out text, and working with documents. Text can be displayed onscreen in multiple ways and ranges from simple text to text with complex layout and formatting support. At the most primitive level, we have GlyphRuns and FormattedText. These can’t be used declaratively; rather, you need to use the DrawingContext to display them onscreen. This can be done using the DrawingContext.DrawGlyphRun and DrawingContext.DrawText APIs. In today’s modern age of globalized applications, you need more than just the ability to blindly throw text onto the user interface. You need to be able to do things like display text that runs from right to left, display Unicode characters, and much more. For example, when you draw text into a drawing context, not only do you supply font information, but you also supply the text, text culture, flow direction, and the origin of the text: new FormattedText(“Hello WPF!”, new Typeface(“Segoe UI”), 36, Brushes.Black), new Point(10, 10)); Text can also be displayed declaratively and easily using the TextBlock and Label classes. TextBlocks (and Labels) are generally useful for a single line of text with fairly rich formatting and simple alignment support. For more complex text display, you can use the FlowDocument and FixedDocument classes that have more elaborate features to handle dynamic layouts, paragraphs, and mixing of rich media. FlowDocument handles automatic layout and sizing of text and graphics as you resize the document. They are most useful for viewing newspaper-style text that can flow into columns and multiple pages. FixedDocuments are useful for programmatically generating a document with precise control over sizes of the textual elements, hence the name. These documents use two kinds of elements: blocks and inlines. Blocks are container elements that contain the more granular inline elements. Typical block-related classes include Paragraph, Section, List, and Table. Some of the common inline classes are Run, Span, Hyperlink, Bold, Italic, and Figure. Although TextBlock, Label, FixedDocument, and FlowDocument are useful for displaying static text, WPF also provides interactive controls for editing text. These include the classic TextBox, which has limited formatting capabilities, and the RichTextBox, which as the name suggests has richer editing capabilities. Most of these text-related classes expose properties to control alignment, fonts, font styles, and weights. Additionally, there is a class called Typography under the System.Windows.Documents namespace that has a rich set of properties to specifically control the various stylistic characteristics of OpenType fonts. They are available as attached properties, which can be set on text-related classes that use OpenType fonts. A sampling of the properties include Capitals, CapitalSpacing, Fraction, Kerning, and NumeralAlignment. The Control Class The Control class is pretty close to the top of the food chain of visual classes. It provides a powerful Template property (of type ControlTemplate) that can be used to change the entire look and feel of a control. Knowing that control templates can be changed during design time and at runtime can make for some amazingly powerful applications and compelling UIs. Designing with a Control allows developers and designers to quickly and easily define visual elements. A rich set of classes that derive from the Control class provide specialized functionality and increasing complexity and level of abstraction. Choosing the right subclass of Control goes back to the analogy of choosing the right tool for the job. You need to make sure that you don’t take something overly complex as well as not picking something that is too simplistic and doesn’t offer the functionality you need. Choosing the wrong subclass can dramatically increase the amount of work you need to do. For example, if you are building a control that needs to display a list of child items, you should start with ItemsControl or ListBox instead of starting with the comparatively low-level functionality of the Control class. Unlike the earlier UI frameworks, the Control-related classes in WPF can be used directly without subclassing. Because of the powerful features such as Styles and Templates, you can customize the look and feel of a control declaratively. The subclasses of Control deal with the shape of the data rather than the appearance. A Button deals with singular data. ScrollBars, Sliders, and so on work with range data. ListBox and ListView work with collections. TreeView works with hierarchical data. It is up to the development team to decide how best to visually represent the data using these controls. In most cases, you do not have to subclass a control, rather you only have to change its Style and Template. The ContentControl Class The ContentControl class is ideal for displaying singular content, specified via the Content property. The content’s look and feel can be customized using its ContentTemplate property, which is of type DataTemplate. Remember back in Chapter 1, “The WPF Design Philosophy,” how plain data gets transformed into a visual representation through data templates. The container that hosts the content can also be customized using the Template property of type ControlTemplate. This way you actually have two levels of customization available to you: You can customize the outer containing frame (via the Template property), and you can customize how the content within the frame is rendered (via the ContentTemplate property). Controls derived from ContentControl are used to represent individual items that are displayed within list-based controls such as a ListBox, ItemsControl, ListView, and so on. The Template property is used for user interaction features such as showing selections, rollovers, highlights, and more. The ContentTemplate property is used for visually representing the data item associated with the individual element. For example, if you have a list of business model objects of type Customer that you are displaying inside a ListBox, you can use its ItemTemplate property (of type DataTemplate) to define a visual tree that contains the customer’s picture, home address, telephone number, and other information. Optionally you can also customize the item container holding each Customer object. As mentioned, a ContentControl derived class is used for wrapping each item of a ListBox. We can customize this ContentControl derived container using its Template property, which is of type ControlTemplate. Some of the most powerful tricks in WPF revolve around control templates, content controls, and content presenters, so it is well worth the effort of learning them in detail. The ContentPresenter Class The ContentPresenter class is the catalyst that brings a data template to life. It is the container that holds the visual tree of the data template. ContentPresenters are used inside the ControlTemplates of Control, ContentControl, or any other custom control that exposes a property of type DataTemplate. It may help to think of the role of the ContentPresenter as the class that is responsible for presenting the visual tree of a data template within its container. Within the ControlTemplate, you associate the DataTemplate property of the template control with the ContentTemplate property of the ContentPresenter. You might do this in XAML (eXtensible Application Markup Language) this way: <ContentPresenter ContentTemplate={TemplateBinding ContentTemplate} /> In the preceding snippet, we are template binding the ContentTemplate property of the ContentPresenter to the ContentControl’s ContentTemplate property. In general, you can think of a presenter element as a shell or container for the actual content. It instantiates the template tree and applies the content to it. As you may recall from Chapter 1, you can think of the content as being a piece of cookie dough, the template is the cookie cutter, and the presenter pushes down on the dough and presents the end result of a nicely shaped cookie. The ItemsControl Class As this class’s name suggests, the ItemsControl class is ideally suited to displaying a list of items. More specifically, those items are interactive controls. Not so long ago, when the main framework for building Windows applications was Windows Forms using .NET, controls were almost always too specialized. A ComboBox would display a drop-down list of items, but those items were always text, unless you rolled up your sleeves and did some serious work. This same problem occurred in virtually every place where Windows Forms displayed a list of items-the type and display of each item in a list was fixed unless you practically rewrote the control. With WPF, the ItemsControl allows you to present a list of items that can have any visual representation you choose and can be bound to any list-based data you want. Finally we have both the flexibility we have always wanted and the power we have always needed. Frequently used derivations of the ItemsControl class include the ListBox, ListView, and TreeView. The ItemsControl class exposes a wide variety of properties for customizing the look of the control and also of its contained items. Because these properties are exposed as DependencyProperties, they can be data-bound to other properties. These properties include the following: • ItemsPanel-The ItemsControl needs a panel to lay out its children. We specify the panel using an ItemsPanelTemplate. The ItemsPanelTemplate is then applied to an ItemsPresenter. • ItemTemplate-The ItemTemplate is the DataTemplate for the items being displayed. This template may be applied to a ContentPresenter or a ContentControl. • ItemContainerStyle-This property indicates the style for the UI container for each individual item. Note that an ItemControl wraps each data item within a UI container such as a ContentPresenter or a ContentControl-derived class. • Template-This defines the ControlTemplate for the ItemsControl itself. If this seems like a lot to take in, don’t worry. The concepts behind content controls, presenters, and data templates can seem daunting at first, but we use them so extensively throughout this book that their use will quickly become second nature to you. We cover the ItemsControl in greater detail in Chapter 5, “Using Existing Controls,” and Chapter 8, “Virtualization.” The UserControl Class The UserControl class is a container class that acts as a “black box” container for a collection of related controls. If you need a set of three controls to always appear together and be allowed to easily talk to each other, then a likely candidate for making that happen is the UserControl class. Creating your own UserControl is an easy first start at creating your own custom controls. It provides the familiar XAML + Code-Behind paradigm that you can use to define your control’s appearance and associated logic. The UserControl class derives from ContentControl and makes a few additions to ContentControl’s stock dependency properties. The first thing you may notice about a user control is that the control itself cannot receive keyboard focus nor can it act as a Tab stop. This is because in the static constructor for UserControl, the UIElement.Focusable DependencyProperty and the KeyboardNavigation.IsTabStop property have been set to false. This makes complete sense when you think about the idea that the primary function of a UserControl is to wrap a set of related controls and not act as an interactive control on its own. To make things more clear, let’s take a look at an example. Suppose that you have to create a search bar for your application that looks something like the one in Figure 2.4. Figure 2.4 A sample interactive search bar for a WPF application. The search bar in Figure 2.4 is comprised of a TextBox and a Button. When a user types a keyword or set of keywords and then presses the Enter key, the search functionality is invoked. The same functionality is invoked if the user types in a keyword and clicks the Search button. While you can place these two controls individually in your window, their purpose and functionality are so interconnected that you would never really use them separately. This makes them ideal candidates for being placed inside a UserControl. To further enhance the encapsulation, you could write your UserControl such that it doesn’t tell the hosting container when the user presses Enter or when the user clicks the Search button; it simply exposes a single event called SearchInvoked. Your window could listen for that event and, in an ideal Model-View-Controller world, pass the search request on to a search controller for processing. Customizing UserControls A UserControl doesn’t allow customization of its look and feel because it does not expose properties for templates, styles, or triggers. You will have the best luck with UserControls if you think of them as faceless containers for logically and functionally related controls. Within the UserControl, you have the ability to improve the look and feel of that single element without affecting the UI definition of the window and enabling your control for reuse in multiple locations throughout your application. Additionally, wrapping a set of related controls and giving them a purpose-driven name such as SearchBar makes your XAML and your code easier to read, maintain, and debug. Similar to the way refactoring allows you to incrementally improve your C# code to make it more understandable, maintainable, and testable, refactoring the UI provides the same benefits and is much easier to do within the bounds of a UserControl. This is often called view refactoring. The Panel Class The Panel class is an element that exists solely to provide the core layout functionality in WPF. Powerful, dynamic layout capability has always been something that was missing in Windows Forms, and now that WPF has dynamic layout features, the world is a much happier place. Think of the Panel as a “layout brain” rather than something that actually produces its own UI. Its job is to size the child elements and arrange them in the allocated space, but it has no UI of its own. WPF ships with a powerful set of panels that handle many of the common layout scenarios that developers run into on a daily basis. These include the Grid, StackPanel, DockPanel, and the WrapPanel. The following is a brief description of each layout pattern (don’t worry, you see plenty more of these classes in the code samples throughout the book): • Grid-Provides a row/column paradigm for laying out child controls. • StackPanel-Child controls are laid out in horizontal or vertical stacks. • DockPanel-Child controls are docked within the container according to the preferences specified by each child control. • WrapPanel-Child controls in this panel wrap according to the specified wrapping preferences. Another panel called the Canvas provides static, absolute coordinate-based layout. Panels can be nested within each other to create more complex layouts. Layout in WPF is handled using the two-phased approach of measure and arrange. During the measure phase, the parent requests that each of its children supply their minimum-required dimensions. The parent then applies additional requirements such as margins, alignment, and padding. Once each child has been measured, the parent panel then performs the arrange phase. During this phase, the parent panel places each child control in its actual position in the final dimensions. The final position and size of the child element may not be what the child element requested. In these scenarios, the parent panel is the final authority on where the child controls are and how much space they take up. Panels also have some extra functionality that you might not want to supersede, such as built-in ability to work with ItemsControls and the ability to dynamically change the z-order of a child element with the Panel.SetZIndex method. The Decorator Class A Decorator class is responsible for wrapping a UI element to support additional behavior. It has a single Child property of type UIElement, which contains the content to be wrapped. A Decorator can be used to add simple visual decoration, such as a Border, or more complex behavior such as a ViewBox, AdornerDecorator, or the InkPresenter. When you subclass a Decorator, you can expose some useful DependencyProperties to customize it. For example, the Border class exposes properties like BorderBrush, BorderThickness, and CornerRadius that all affect how the border is drawn around its child content. The Adorner Class If we already have an additive decoration class in the form of the Decorator, why do we need an Adorner class? As mentioned earlier, every single class in the class hierarchy that makes up WPF has a specific purpose. While a Decorator is responsible for drawing decoration around the outside of a piece of child content, the Adorner class allows you to overlay visuals on top of existing visual elements. An easy way to think of adorners is that they are secondary interactive visuals that provide additional means to interact with the primary visual. That might seem complex, but think about widgets such as resizing grips that appear on elements in a typical diagramming program. Those are a secondary visual that sit on top of the elements that they are adorning and provide additional functionality and interaction. By clicking and dragging the resizing-handles, the user can resize the underlying control. Adorner classes work in conjunction with the AdornerDecorator, which is an invisible surface on which the adorners rest. To be part of the visual tree, adorners have to have a container. The AdornerDecorator acts as this container. AdornerDecorators are generally defined at the top of the visual tree (such as the ControlTemplate for the Window control). This makes all adorners sit on top of all of the Window content. We explore the use of adorners throughout the book, but you see them specifically in Chapter 6, “The Power of Attached Properties,” and Chapter 9, “Creating Advanced Controls and Visual Effects.” The Image Class You might be a little surprised to see the Image class mentioned here among all of the other highly interactive visual controls. In most frameworks, images contain just enough functionality to display rasterized (nonvector) images and maybe support reading and writing streams of image data, but that’s about it. Image classes can actually provide control-like capabilities for some specific scenarios. Image derives from FrameworkElement, so it can be composed in logical trees and has rich support for event handling and layout. It encapsulates the functionality to render an instance of an ImageSource, specified via the Source property. The ImageSource class can represent a vector image like DrawingImage or a raster/bitmap image like the BitmapSource. Images can be useful when you want to visualize a large amount of data for which you have limited interaction. Some situations where this might come in handy are when you are visualizing high-volume graphs or network monitoring tools that are visualizing thousands of network nodes. In cases like this, even DrawingVisuals become extremely expensive because each data item is a separate visual and consumes CPU and memory resources. Using an image, and knowing that each data point doesn’t need to be interactive, you can visualize what you need without bringing the host computer to its knees. Since the Image class also has event handling support, we can attach handlers for mouse events that can query the pixel at the mouse’s current coordinates and report information about that data item. With a little bit of creativity and forethought, the class can be a powerful tool in any developer’s toolbox. The Brushes The Brush-related classes in WPF represent a powerful way of drawing simple to complex graphics with extreme ease of use. A brush represents static noninteractive graphics that serve mostly as backgrounds on visual elements. You can use a basic brush like SolidColorBrush, which only draws solid colors like Red, Blue, LightGray, and so on, and also gradient brushes like a LinearGradientBrush and RadialGradientBrush. The gradient brushes have additional properties to control the style of drawing the gradient. Figure 2.5 shows you various kinds of gradient brushes. Figure 2.5 Linear and radial gradient brushes. Although solid and gradient brushes are available in previous UI technologies, the real power comes with the TileBrush classes such as ImageBrush, DrawingBrush, and VisualBrush. An ImageBrush as the name suggests allows you to create a Brush out of an image. This is useful since it allows you to use an image without using the Image class. Since it is a brush, you can use it wherever a Brush type property is expected. DrawingBrush gives you the power of defining complex graphics as a simple brush. Using DrawingGroups and GeometryDrawings, you can define nested graphics that can provide elegant backgrounds to your visuals. In Figure 2.6, you can see a nested set of graphic elements to create the final DrawingBrush. With clever use of DrawingBrushes, you can simplify the way you define some ControlTemplates. Figure 2.6 The swoop seen in Word 2007, created using a DrawingBrush. A VisualBrush gives you a live snapshot of a rendered element from the visual tree. We see many uses of VisualBrushes in later chapters, such as using VisualBrush as a texture on a 3D model or creating reflections. The TileBrush can also be stretched and tiled to fill the bounds of the visual. You can also cut out a rectangular section of the brush using the Viewport and ViewBox properties. Just like regular visuals, you can also apply transforms. Brushes have two kinds of transform properties: RelativeTransform and Transform. The RelativeTransform property scales the brush using the relative coordinates of the visual ([0,0] to [1,1]). It is useful if you want to transform the brush without knowing the absolute bounds of the visual on which it is applied. The Transform property works after brush output has been mapped to the bounds of the visual-in other words, after the RelativeTransform is applied. The DataTemplate, ControlTemplate, and ItemsPanelTemplate Classes WPF has a set of template classes that are used to represent visual trees. Templates are never actually rendered directly; rather, they are applied to other container classes like a ContentPresenter, ItemsPresenter, or a Control. Each template class derives from the FrameworkTemplate class. These include the DataTemplate, ControlTemplate, and ItemsPanelTemplate classes. There is also a HierarchicalDataTemplate that is used for representing hierarchical data. It takes a little getting used to, but once you are, it is an invaluable tool for representing multilevel or tiered data. HierarchicalDataTemplates are used for controls such as the TreeView. Each of these three templates contains a visual tree that can be greater than one level. The exception here is that the ItemsPanelTemplate can only contain a Panel-derived class as the root (there is a hint to this exception in the name of the template class itself). The Viewport3D Class So far every class that we have discussed so far has been a flat, two-dimensional control. WPF also gives developers unprecedented power and accessibility into the world of 3D programming. The Viewport3D class (see Figure 2.7) gives developers the ability to work in three dimensions without having to deal with complex game-oriented frameworks such as Direct3D or OpenGL. Figure 2.7 A sample of the ViewPort3D class. The Viewport3D class is a container for a 3D world that is comprised of 3D models, textures, cameras, and lights. Viewport3D derives from the FrameworkElement class instead of Control. This makes a good deal of sense because FrameworkElement works great as a visual container, and the Viewport3D class is a visual container for an interactive 3D scene. The Viewport3D class also has no background. As a result, you can place a 3D viewport on top of 2D elements and create stunning effects by mixing and matching 2D and 3D visual elements. Just keep in mind that the 3D world must reside in a completely different container. For example, you can use a VisualBrush to take a 2D visual and apply it to the surface of a 3D model as a material. The .NET Framework 3.5 introduced additional classes that allow you to have live, interactive 2D visuals on a 3D surface. For example, you can place a Button visual as a material for a Sphere and interact with it like a regular button, even if the Sphere is spinning and being dynamically lit by a light source. The MediaElement Class Many of today’s modern applications are more than just static controls and grids and buttons. Many of them contain multimedia such as sounds, music, and video. WPF not only lets you play audio and video, but gives you programmatic control of the playback. WPF gives you this multimedia programming experience with the MediaElement class. You indicate the source of the media using the Source property. You can control the media playback using the Play, Pause, and Stop methods. You can even control the volume and skip to a specific time in the playback using the Position property. Figure 2.8 shows a simple WPF application that contains a media element and some controls for manipulating the video. Figure 2.8 A simple MediaElement application. The InkCanvas The Tablet PC introduced a more widespread use of the stylus as a means to interact with the applications. The strokes created using the stylus were treated as ink, which could also be mapped to application-specific gestures. Although the stylus is treated as the default device, a mouse makes a good substitute. WPF has the InkCanvas class that provides most of the features available on the Tablet PC. In fact the InkCanvas becomes the slate on which we can scribble either with the mouse or with the stylus. InkCanvas can be created declaratively and exposes a variety of events related to strokes. It also has built-in gesture recognition for some standard gestures. By overlaying an InkCanvas on some UI elements, you can add some interesting features to an application. For example, for a photo-viewing application, you can overlay an InkCanvas on a photo to annotate parts of the picture, as shown in Figure 2.9. Figure 2.9 A simple InkCanvas application. With the diverse range of classes available to use within WPF, we can see that WPF is a great toolset for creating interesting, compelling, and visually stunning interfaces and controls. Understanding and respecting this diversity and knowing which is the best tool for any given situation will make your development experience more rewarding and enjoyable and will ultimately improve the quality of your applications. Table 2.1 presents a summary of the classes discussed in this chapter. In the next chapter, we discuss creating controls and some best practices for approaching control creation. We build on the foundations from this chapter and the previous chapter as we venture into the world of creating exciting, modern interfaces with WPF.	http://www.codemag.com/article/100023	<urn:uuid:d43cf055-7280-4121-b88f-6da3bd936ca9>	en	0.897952	0.060797
Click here to Skip to main content Click here to Skip to main content Surviving the Release Version By , 16 Jul 2001 Rate this: Please Sign up or sign in to vote. OK, your program works. You've tested everything in sight. It's time to ship it. So you make a release version. And the world crumbles to dust. You get memory access failures, dialogs don't come up, controls don't work, results come out incorrectly, or any or all of the above. Plus a few more problems that are specific to your application. Now what? That's what this essay is all about. Some background A bit of background: I have been working with optimizing compiler since 1969. My PhD dissertation (1975) was on the automatic generation of sophisticated optimizations for an optimizing compiler. My post-doctoral work involved the use of a highly optimizing compiler (Bliss-11) in the construction of a large (500K line source) operating system for a multiprocessor. After that, I was one of the architects of the PQCC (Production Quality Compiler-Compiler) effort at CMU, which was a research project to simplify the creation of sophisticated optimizing compilers. In 1981 I left the University to join Tartan Laboratories, a company that developed highly-optimizing compilers, where I was one of the major participants in the tooling development for the compilers. I've lived with, worked with, built, debugged, and survived optimizing compilers for over 30 years. Compiler bugs The usual first response is "the optimizer has bugs". While this can be true, it is actually a cause-of-last-resort. It is more likely that there is something else wrong with your program. We'll come back to the "compiler bugs" question a bit later. But the first assumption is that the compiler is correct, and you have a different problem. So we'll discuss those problems first. Storage Allocator Issues The debug version of the MFC runtime allocates storage differently than the release version. In particular, the debug version allocates some space at the beginning and end of each block of storage, so its allocation patterns are somewhat different. The changes in storage allocation can cause problems to appear that would not appear in the debug version--but almost always these are genuine problems, as in bugs in your program, which somehow managed to not be detected in the debug version. These are usually rare. Why are they rare? Because the debug version of the MFC allocator initializes all storage to really bogus values, so an attempt to use a chunk of storage that you have failed to allocate will give you an immediate access fault in the debug version. Furthermore, when a block of storage is freed, it is initialized to another pattern, so that if you have retained any pointers to the storage and try to use the block after it is freed you will also see some immediately bogus behavior. The debug allocator also checks the storage at the start and end of the block it allocated to see if it has been damaged in any way. The typical problem is that you have allocated a block of n values as an array and then accessed elements 0 through n, instead of 0 through n-1, thus overwriting the area at the end of the array. This condition will cause an assertion failure most of the time. But not all of the time. And this leads to a potential for failure. Storage is allocated in quantized chunks, where the quantum is unspecified but is something like 16, or 32 bytes. Thus, if you allocated a DWORD array of six elements (size = 6 * sizeof(DWORD) bytes = 24 bytes) then the allocator will actually deliver 32 bytes (one 32-byte quantum or two 16-byte quanta). So if you write element [6] (the seventh element) you overwrite some of the "dead space" and the error is not detected. But in the release version, the quantum might be 8 bytes, and three 8-byte quanta would be allocated, and writing the [6] element of the array would overwrite a part of the storage allocator data structure that belongs to the next chunk. After that it is all downhill. There error might not even show up until the program exits! You can construct similar "boundary condition" situations for any size quantum. Because the quantum size is the same for both versions of the allocator, but the debug version of the allocator adds hidden space for its own purposes, you will get different storage allocation patterns in debug and release mode. Uninitialized Local Variables Perhaps the greatest single cause of release-vs-debug failures is the occurrence of uninitialized local variables. Consider a simple example: thing * search(thing * something) BOOL found; for(int i = 0; i < whatever.GetSize(); i++) if(whatever[i]->field == something->field) { /* found it / found = TRUE; } / found it / return whatever[i]; return NULL; Looks pretty straightforward, except for the failure to initialize the found variable to FALSE. But this bug was never seen in the debug version! But what happens in the release version is that the whatever array, which holds n elements, has whatever[n] returned, a clearly invalid value, which later causes some other part of the program to fail horribly. Why didn't this show up in the debug version? Because in the debug version, due entirely to a fortuitous accident, the value of found was always initially 0 (FALSE), so when the loop exited without finding anything, it was correctly reporting that nothing was found, and NULL was returned. Why is the stack different? In the debug version, the frame pointer is always pushed onto the stack at routine entry, and variables are almost always assigned locations on the stack. But in the release version, optimizations of the compiler may detect that the frame pointer is not needed, or variable locations be inferred from the stack pointer (a technique we called frame pointer simulation in compilers I worked on), so the frame pointer is not pushed onto the stack. Furthermore, the compiler may detect that it is by far more efficient to assign a variable, such as i in the above example, to a register rather than use a value on the stack, so the initial value of a variable may depend on many factors (the variable i is clearly initially assigned, but what if found were the variable? Other than careful reading of the code, and turning on high levels of compiler diagnostics, there is absolutely no way to detect uninitialized local variables without the aid of a static analysis tool. I am particularly fond of Gimpel Lint (see, which is an excellent tool, and one I highly recommend. Bounds Errors There are many valid optimizations which uncover bugs that are masked in the debug version. Yes, sometimes it is a compiler bug, but 99% of the time it is a genuine logic error that just happens to be harmless in the absence of optimization, but fatal when it is in place. For example, if you have an off-by-one array access, consider code of the following general form void func() char buffer[10]; int counter; lstrcpy(buffer, "abcdefghik"); // 11-byte copy, including NULL In the debug version, the NULL byte at the end of the string overwrites the high-order byte of counter, but unless counter gets > 16M, this is harmless even if counter is active. But in the optimizing compiler, counter is moved to a register, and never appears on the stack. There is no space allocated for it. The NULL byte overwrites the data which follows buffer, which may be the return address from the function, causing an access error when the function returns. Of course, this is sensitive to all sorts of incidental features of the layout. If instead the program had been void func() char buffer[10]; int counter; char result[20]; wsprintf(result, _T("Result = %d"), counter); lstrcpy(buffer, _T("abcdefghik")); // 11-byte copy, including NUL then the NUL byte, which used to overlap the high order byte of counter (which doesn't matter in this example because counter is obviously no longer needed after the line using it is printed) now overwrites the first byte of result, with the consequence that the string result now appears to be an empty string, with no explanation of why it is so. If result had been a char variable or some other pointer you would be getting an access fault trying to access through it. Yet the program "worked in the debug version"! Well, it didn't, it was wrong, but the error was masked. In such cases you will need to create a version of the executable with debug information, then use the break-on-value-changed feature to look for the bogus overwrite. Sometimes you have to get very creative to trap these errors. Been there, done that. I once got a company award at the monthly company meeting for finding a fatal memory overwrite error that was a "seventh-level bug", that is, the pointer that was clobbered by overwriting it with another valid (but incorrect) pointer caused another pointer to be clobbered which caused an index to be computed incorrectly which caused...and seven levels of damage later it finally blew up with a fatal access error. In that system, it was impossible to generate a release version with symbols, so I spent 17 straight hours single-stepping instructions, working backward through the link map, and gradually tracking it down. I had two terminals, one running the debug version and one running the release version. It was obvious in the debug version what had gone wrong, after I found the error, but in the unoptimized code the phenomenon shown above masked the actual error. Linkage Errors Linkage Types Certain functions require a specific linkage type, such as __stdcall. Other functions require correct parameter matching. Perhaps the most common errors are in using incorrect linkage types. When a function specifies a __stdcall linkage you must specify the __stdcall for the function you declare. If it does not specify __stdcall, you must not use the __stdcall linkage. Note that you rarely if ever see a "bare" __stdcall linkage declared as such. Instead, there are many linkage type macros, such as WINAPI, CALLBACK, IMAGEAPI, and even the hoary old (and distinctly obsolete) PASCAL which are macros which are all defined as __stdcall. For example, the top-level thread function for an AfxBeginThread function is defined as a function whose prototype uses the AFX_THREADPROC linkage type. which you might guess as being a CDECL (that is, non-__stdcall) linkage. If you declared your thread function as and started the thread as AfxBeginThread((AFX_THREAD_PROC)MyThreadFunc, this); then the explicit cast (often added to make a compiler warning go away!) would fool the compiler into generating code. This often results in the query "My thread function crashes the app when the thread completes, but only in release mode". Exactly why it doesn't do this in debug mode escapes me, but most of the time when we look at the problem it was a bad linkage type on the thread function. So when you see a crash like this, make sure that you have all the right linkages in place. Beware of using casts of function types; instead. write the function as AfxBeginThread(MyThreadFunc, (LPVOID)this); which will allow the compiler to check the linkage types and parameter counts. Parameter counts Using casts will also result in problems with parameter counts. Most of these should be fatal in debug mode, but for some reason some of them don't show up until the release build. In particular, any function with a __stdcall linkage in any of its guises must have the correct number of arguments. Usually this shows up instantly at compile time unless you have used a function-prototype cast (like the (AFX_THREADPROC) cast in the previous section) to override the compiler's judgment. This almost always results in a fatal error when the function returns. The most common place this shows up is when user-defined messages are used. You have a message which doesn't use the WPARAM and LPARAM values, so you write to simply send the message. You then write a handler that looks like afx_msg void OnMyMessage(); // incorrect! and the program crashes in release mode. Again, I've not investigated why this doesn't cause a problem in debug mode, but we've seen it happen all the time when the release build is created. The correct signature for a user-defined message is always, without exception, afx_msg LRESULT OnMyMessage(WPARAM, LPARAM); You must return a value, and you must have the parameters as specified (and you must use the types WPARAM and LPARAM if you want compatibility into the 64-bit world; the number of people who "knew" that WPARAM meant WORD and simply wrote (WORD, LONG) in their Win16 code paid the penalty when they went to Win32 where it is actually (UNSIGNED LONG, LONG), and it will be different again in Win64, so why do it wrong by trying to be cute?) Note that if you don't use the parameter values, you don't provide a name for the parameters. So your handler for OnMyMessage is coded as { something here... return 0; // logically void, 0, always Compiler "Bugs" An optimizing compiler makes several assumptions about the reality it is dealing with. The problem is that the compiler's view of reality is based entirely on a set of assumptions which a C programmer can all too readily violate. The result of these misrepresentations of reality are that you can fool the compiler into generating "bad code". It isn't, really; it is perfectly valid code providing the assumptions the compiler made were correct. If you have lied to your compiler, either implicitly or explicitly, all bets are off. Aliasing bugs An alias to a location is an address to that location. Generally, a compiler assumes that unless otherwise instructed, aliasing exists (it is typical of C programs). You can get tighter code if you tell the compiler that it can assume no aliasing, and therefore, values that it has computed will remain constant across function calls. Consider the following example: int n; int array[100]; int main(int argc, char * argv) n = somefunction(); array[0] = n; for(int i = 1; i < 100; i++) array[i] = f(i) + array[0]; This looks pretty easy; it computes a function of i, f(i), which at the moment we won't bother to define, and adds the array entry value to it. So a clever compiler says, "Look, array[0] isn't modified at all in the loop body, so we can change the code to store the value in a register and rearrange the code: register int compiler_generated_temp_001 =somefunction(); n = compiler_generated_temp_001; array[0] = compiler_generated_temp_001; array[i] = f(i) + compiler_generated_temp_001; This optimization, which is a combination of loop invariant optimization and value propagation, works only if the assumption that array[0]is not modified by f(i). But if we later define int f(int i) return i; Note that we have now violated the assumption that array[0] is constant; there is an alias to the value. Now this alias is fairly easy to see, but when you have complex structures with complex pointers you can get exactly the same thing, but it is not detectable at compile time, or by static analysis of the program. Note that the VC++ compiler, by default, assumes that aliasing exists. You have to take explicit action to override this assumption. It is a Bad Idea to do this except in very limited contexts; see the discussion of optimization pragmas. const and volatile These are attributes you can add to declarations. For variable declarations, the const declaration says "this never changes" and the volatile declaration says "this changes in ways you can't possibly guess". While these have very little impact when you compile in debug mode, they have a profound effect when you compile for release, and if you have failed to use them, or used them incorrectly, You Are Doomed. The const attribute on a variable or function states that the value is constant. This allows the optimizing compiler to make certain assumptions about the value, and allows such optimizations as value propagation and constant propagation to be used. For example int array[100]; void something(const int i) ... = array[i]; // usage 1 // other parts of the function ... = array[i]; // usage 2 The const declaration allows the compiler to assume that the value i is the same at points usage 1 and usage 2. Furthermore, since array is statically allocated, the address of array[i] need only be computed once; and the code can be generated as if it had been written: int array[100]; void something(const int i) int * compiler_generated_temp_001 = &array[i]; ... = compiler_generated_temp_001; // usage 1 // other parts of the function ... = compiler_generated_temp_001; // usage 2 In fact, if we had the declaration const int array[100] = {.../* bunch of values / } the code could be generated as if it were void something(const int i) int compiler_generated_temp_001 = array[i]; ... = compiler_generated_temp_001; // usage 1 // other parts of the function ... = compiler_generated_temp_001; // usage 2 Thus const not only gives you compile-time checking, but can allow the compiler to generate smaller, faster code. Note that you can force violations of const by explicit casts and various devious programming techniques. The volatile declaration is similar, and says the direct opposite: that no assumption of the constancy of a value can be made. For example, the loop // at the module level or somewhere else global to the function int n; // inside some function while(n > 0) { will be readily transformed by an optimizing compiler as if(n > 0) and this is a perfectly valid translation. Because there is nothing in the loop that can change the value of n, there is no reason to ever test it again! This optimization is an example of a loop invariant computation, and an optimizing compiler will "pull this out" of the loop. But what if the rest of the program looked like this: while(n > 0) and the thread used the variable registered by the registerMyThreadFlag call to set the value of the variable whose address was passed in? It would fail utterly; the loop would never exit! Thus, the way this would have to be declared is by adding the volatile attribute to the declaration of n: volatile int n; This informs the compiler that it does not have the freedom to make the assumption about constancy of the value. The compiler will generate code to test the value n on every iteration through the loop, because you've explicitly told it that it is not safe to assume the value n is loop-invariant. Many programmers put ASSERT macros liberally throughout their code. This is usually a good idea. The nice thing about the ASSERT macro is that using it costs you nothing in the release version because the macro has an empty body. Simplistically, you can imagine the definition of the ASSERT macro as being #ifdef _DEBUG #define ASSERT(x) if( (x) == 0) report_assert_failure() #define ASSERT(x) (The actual definition is more complex, but the details don't matter here). This works fine when you are doing something like ASSERT(whatever != NULL); which is pretty simple, and omitting the computation of the test from the release version doesn't hurt. But some people will write things like ASSERT( (whatever = somefunction() ) != NULL); which is going to fail utterly in the release version because the assignment is never done, because there is no code generated (we will defer the discussion of embedded assignments being fundamentally evil to some other essay yet to be written. Take it as given that if you write an assignment statement within an if-test or any other context you are committing a serious programming style sin!) Another typical example is which will cause an assertion failure if the API call fails. But in the release version of the system the call is never made! That's what VERIFY is for. Imagine the definitions of VERIFYas being #ifdef _DEBUG #define VERIFY(x) if( (x) == 0) report_assert_failure() #define VERIFY(x) (x) Note this is a very different definition. What is dropped out in the release version is the if-test, but the code is still executed. The correct forms of the above incorrect examples would be VERIFY((whatever = somefunction() ) != NULL); This code will work correctly in both the debug and release versions, but in the release version there will be no ASSERT failure if the test comes out FALSE. Note that I've also seen code that looks like VERIFY( somevalue != NULL); which is just silly. What it effectively means is that it will, in release mode, generate code to compute the expression but ignore the result. If you have optimizations turned on, the compiler is actually clever enough to determine that you are doing something that has no meaning and discard the code that would have been generated (but only if you have the Professional or Enterprise versions of the compiler!). But as we also discuss in this essay, you can create an unoptimized release version, in which case the preceding VERIFY would simply waste time and space. Compiler Bugs (again) Optimizing compilers are very sophisticated pieces of code. They are so complex that generally no one person understands all of the compiler. Furthermore, optimization decisions can interact in subtle and unexpected ways. Been There, Done That. Microsoft has done a surprisingly good job of QA on their optimizing compilers. This is not to say that they are perfect, but they are actually very, very good. Much better than many commercial compilers I've used in the past (I once used a compiler that "optimized" a constant if-test by doing the else if the value was TRUE and the then if the value was FALSE, and they told us "We'll fix that in the next release, sometime next year". Actually, I think they went out of business before the next compiler release, which surprised no one who had ever been a customer). But it is more likely that a "compiler bug" is the result of your violating the compiler assumptions rather than a genuine compiler bug. That's been my experience. Furthermore, it may not even be a bug that affects your code. It might be in the MFC shared DLL, or the MFC statically-linked library, where a programmer committed an error that doesn't show up in the debug versions of these libraries but shows up in the release versions. Again, Microsoft has done a surprisingly good job of testing these, but no testing procedure is perfect. Nonetheless, the Windows Developer's Journal ( has a monthly feature, "Bug++ of the Month", which features actual, genuine compiler optimization bugs. How do you get around such bugs? The simplest technique is to turn off all the compiler optimizations (see below). There is an excellent chance that if you do this you will perceive no difference in the performance of your program. Optimization matters only when it matters. The rest of the time, it is a waste of effort (see my MVP Tips essay on this topic!). And in almost all cases, for almost all parts of almost all programs, classic optimization no longer matters! DLL Hell The phenomenon of inconsistent mixes of DLLs leads to a condition known affectionately as "DLL Hell". Even Microsoft calls it this. The problem is that if Microsoft DLL A requires Microsoft DLL B, it is essential that it have the correct version of DLL B. Of course, all of this stems from a desire to not rename the DLLs on every release with a name that includes the rev level and version number or other useful indicators, but the result is that life becomes quite unbearable. Microsoft has a Web site that allows you to determine if you have a consistent mix of DLLs. Check out for articles about this. One of the nice features is that much of this is going away in Win2K and WinXP. However, some of it is still with us. Sometimes the release version of your code will be done in by a mismatch whereas the debug version is more resilient, for all the reasons already given. However, there is one other lurking problem: a mix of DLLs that use the shared MFC library, and are both debug and release. If you are using DLLs of your own, that use the shared MFC library, make certain that all your DLLs are either debug or release! This means you should never, ever, under any circumstances rely on PATH or the implicit search path to locate DLLs (I find the whole idea of search paths to be a ill-thought-out kludge which is guaranteed to induce this sort of behavior; I never rely on the DLL load path except to load the standard Microsoft DLLs from %SYSTEM32%, and if you are using any kind of search path beyond that you deserve whatever happens to you! Note also that you must not, ever, under any circumstances imaginable, ever, put a DLL of your own in the %SYSTEM32% directory. For one thing, Win2K and WinXP will delete it anyway, because of "System32 Lockdown", a good idea that should have been forcefully implemented a decade ago). Do not think that doing "static linking" of the MFC library is going to solve this problem! In fact, it actually makes the problem much worse, because you can end up with n disjoint copies of the MFC runtime, each one of which thinks it owns the world. A DLL must therefore either use the shared MFC library or use no MFC at all (the number of problems that occur if you have a private copy of the MFC library are too horrible to mention in an otherwise G-rated Web page, and in the interest of preserving keyboards I won't describe them in case any of you are eating when you read this. Well, how about one: the MFC Window Handle Map. Do you really want two or more copies of a handle map, each one of which can have disjoint images of what the window handle mapping, and try to reconcile the behavior of your program? I thought not). However, it is very important to not have a mix of debug and release DLLs using MFC (note that a "straight", non-MFC release DLL can be called from a debug version of an MFC program; this happens all the time with the standard Microsoft libraries for OLE, WinSock, multimedia, etc.). The debug and release DLLs also have sufficiently different interfaces to MFC (I've not looked in detail, but I've had reports about problems) that you will get LoadLibrary failures, access faults, etc. Not A Pretty Sight. One way to avoid this is to have your DLL subprojects compile the DLLs into the main program's Debug and Release directories. The way I do this is to go into the DLL subproject, select Project Settings, select the Link tab, and put "..\" in front of the path that is there. You have to do this independently in the Debug and Release configurations (and any custom configurations you may have). I also hand-edit the command line to put the "..\" in front of the path for the .lib file, making it easier to link as well. Note the yellow areas highlighted in the image below. The top left shows the fact that I am working in the Debug configuration. The middle right shows the edit I made to the output file, and the lower right shows the hand-edit I made to redirect the .lib file. Diagnostic Techniques So the program fails, and you haven't a clue as to why. Well, there's some tricks you can try. Turn off optimizations One thing you can do is turn off all the optimizations in the release version. Go to the Project \| Settings for the release version, choose the C/C++ tab, select Optimizations in the combo box, and simply turn off everything. Then do Build \| Rebuild All and try again. If the bug went away, then you have a clue. No, you still don't know if it was an optimization bug in the strict sense, but you now know that the bug in your program is a consequence of an optimization transformation, which can be as simple as an uninitialized stack variable whose non-initialized value is sensitive to the optimization of the code. Not a lot of help, but you now know something more than you did before. Turn on symbols You can debug a release version of the program; just go into the C/C++ tab, select the General category, and select Program Database for Edit and Continue. You must also select the Link tab, and under the General category, check the Generate Debug Information box. In particular, if you have turned off optimization you have the same debugging environment that you had for the debug version, except you are running with the non-debug MFC shared library, so you can't single-step into the library functions. If you have not turned optimizations off, there are ways in which the debugger will lie to you about variable values, because the optimizations may make copies of variables in registers and not tell the debugger. Debugging optimized code can be hard, because you really can't be sure of what the debugger is telling you, but you can be further ahead with symbols (and line backtrace) than without them. Note that statements can be reordered, pulled out of loops, never computed, etc. in an optimized version, but the goal is that the code is semantically identical to the unoptimized version. You hope. But the rearrangement of the code makes it very difficult sometimes for the debugger to tell the exact line on which the error occurred. Be prepared for this. Generally, you'll find the errors are so blindingly obvious once you know more-or-less where to look that more detailed debugger information is not critical. Enable/Disable Optimizations Selectively You can use the Project \| Settings to change the characteristics of a project selectively, on a file-by-file basis. My usual strategy is to disable all optimizations globally (in the release version), then selectively turn them back on only in those modules that matter, one at a time, until the problem reappears. At that point, you've got a good idea where the problem is. You can also apply pragmas to the project for very close optimization control. Don't optimize Here's a question to ask: does it matter? Here you are with a product to ship, a customer base, a deadline, and some really obscure bug that appears only in the release version! Why optimize at all? Does it really matter? If it doesn't, why are you wasting your time? Just turn off optimizations in the release version and recompile. Done. No fuss, no muss. A bit larger, a bit slower, but does it matter? Read my essay about optimization being your worst enemy. Optimize only what counts Generally, GUI code needs little or no optimization, for the reasons given in my essay. But as I point out in that essay, the inner loops really, really matter. Sometimes you can even selectively enable optimizations in the inner loop that you wouldn't dare enable globally in your program, such as telling a certain routine that no aliasing is possible. To do this, you can apply optimization pragmas around the routine. For example, look in the compiler help under "pragmas", and the subtopic "affecting optimization". You will find a set of pointers into detailed discussions. inline functions You can cause any function to be expanded inline if the compiler judges this to have a suitable payoff. Just add the attribute inline to a function declaration. For C/C++, this requires that the function body be defined in the header file, e.g., class whatever { inline getPointer() { return p; } something p; A function will normally not be compiled inline unless the compiler has been asked to compile inline functions inline, and it has decided it is OK to do so. Go read the discussion in the manual. The compiler switches which enable optimization of inline expansion are set from the Project \| Settings, select the C/C++ tab, select the Optimizations category, and select the type of optimization under the Inline function expansion dropdown. Usually doing /Ob1 is sufficient for a release version. Note that if your bug comes back, you've got a really good idea where to look. intrinsic functions The compiler knows that certain functions can be directly expanded as code. Functions that are implicitly inlineable include the following _lrotl, _lrotr, _rotl, _rotr, _strset, abs, fabs, labs, memcmp, memcpy, memset, strcat, strcmp, strcpy, and strlen Note that there is very little advantage to implicitly expanding one of these to code unless it is already in a time-critical part of the program. Remember the essay: measure, measure, measure. An intrinsic function often makes the code size larger, although the code is faster. If you need it, you can simply declare #pragma intrinsic(strcmp) and all invocations of strcmp which follow will be expanded as inline code. You can also use the /Oi compiler switch, which is set by Project \| Settings, C/C++ tab, category Optimizations, and if you select Custom, select Generate Intrinsic Functions. You will probably never see a bug which occurs in optimized code because of intrinsic expansions. Note that coding strcmp as a function call in your code can be a seriously losing idea anyway, if you ever think you might build a Unicode version of your app. You should be writing _tcscmp, which expands to strcmp in ANSI (8-bit character) applications and _wcscmp in Unicode (16-bit character) applications. Really Tight Control If you have a high-performance inner loop, you may want to tell the compiler that everything is safe. First, apply any const or volatile modifiers that would be necessary. Then turn on individual optimizations, such as #pragma optimize("aw", on) This tells the compiler that it can make a lot of deep assumptions about aliasing not being present. The result will be much faster, much tighter code. Do NOT tell the compiler, globally, to assume no aliasing! You are very likely to do yourself in because you have systematically violated this limitation all over the place (it is easy to do, and hard to find if you've done it). That's why you only want to do this sort of optimization in very restricted contexts, where you know you have total control over what is going on. When I have to do this, I usually move the function to a file of its own, and only the function I want to optimize can therefore be affected. This outlines some rationale and strategies for coping with the debug-vs-release problems that sometimes come up. The simplest one is often the best: just turn off all the optimizations in the release version. Then selectively turn on optimizations for that 1% of your code that might matter. Assuming there is that much of your code that matters. For a lot of the applications we write, so little code matters that you get virtually the same performance for optimized and unoptimized code. Other References Check out for some additional useful insights by Bruce Dawson. A particularly nice point he makes here is that you should always generate debug symbol information with your release version, so you can actually debug problems in the product. I don't know why I never thought of this, but I didn't! Send mail to with questions or comments about this article. Copyright © 1999 All Rights Reserved A list of licenses authors might use can be found here About the Author Joseph M. Newcomer United States United States No Biography provided Comments and Discussions QuestionNice PinmemberCIDev5-Sep-12 3:13 Clearly written article with lots of good tips. Just because the code works, it doesn't mean that it is good code. GeneralMy vote of 5 PinmemberAli Fakoor8-Oct-11 19:52 QuestionCrashs in Release Version Pinmemberbigkim17-Aug-11 5:19 GeneralNumerical differences PinmemberOfekSH24-Feb-10 1:29 Generalcrashes in release PinmemberThisIsMeRon28-Dec-08 19:45 GeneralRe: crashes in release PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer28-Dec-08 20:06 QuestionRe: crashes in release [modified] PinmemberThisIsMeRon28-Dec-08 23:03 AnswerRe: crashes in release PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer29-Dec-08 5:27 QuestionRe: crashes in release PinmemberThisIsMeRon31-Dec-08 22:07 AnswerRe: crashes in release PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer1-Jan-09 4:12 QuestionRe: crashes in release PinmemberThisIsMeRon1-Jan-09 17:52 AnswerRe: crashes in release PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer2-Jan-09 3:50 GeneralRe: crashes in release PinmemberThisIsMeRon5-Jan-09 22:35 GeneralRe: crashes in release PinmemberThisIsMeRon6-Jan-09 22:37 Questionrelease mode works, but debug mode failed? Pinmemberjing_zhang22-Nov-07 3:09 AnswerRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer22-Nov-07 7:46 GeneralRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? Pinmemberjing_zhang22-Nov-07 23:46 GeneralRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer23-Nov-07 4:59 GeneralRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? Pinmemberjing_zhang23-Nov-07 7:00 GeneralRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer24-Nov-07 6:43 GeneralRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? Pinmemberjing_zhang26-Nov-07 21:22 GeneralRe: release mode works, but debug mode failed? PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer27-Nov-07 6:03 GeneralDebug Dll Crashes in VS2005 PinmemberRane26-May-07 0:12 GeneralRe: Debug Dll Crashes in VS2005 PinmemberJoseph M. Newcomer26-May-07 5:31 QuestionDebug/Release Pinmembertom groezer25-May-07 9:56 \| Advertise \| Privacy \| Mobile Web03 \| 2.8.140311.1 \| Last Updated 17 Jul 2001 Article Copyright 2000 by Joseph M. Newcomer Everything else Copyright © CodeProject, 1999-2014 Terms of Use Layout: fixed \| fluid	http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/548/Surviving-the-Release-Version?fid=684&df=90&mpp=10&noise=1&prof=True&sort=Position&view=Expanded&spc=None&select=4357782&fr=1	<urn:uuid:8287e9b8-6b10-4599-b57a-9cc378eeee97>	en	0.910504	0.153158
User Score Generally favorable reviews- based on 1592 Ratings User score distribution: Review this movie 1. Your Score 0 out of 10 Rate this: • 10 • 9 • 8 • 7 • 6 • 5 • 4 • 3 • 2 • 1 • 0 • 0 1. Submit 2. Check Spelling 1. Feb 25, 2014 I wanted to like this movie and I was excited to finally see it when it made it to DVD. I'm sorry but I was bored and frustrated by the story. It dragged along as the characters (supposed geniuses from their fields) did the stupidest things you can think of. I don't know what else to say about other than I personally thought it was terrible. 2. Feb 8, 2014 "Prometheus" was a gripping movie experience for me. It had grim, but beautiful visuals, great use and combination of CGI and 3D, sharply directed action scenes and above everything else, a story that asks unanswered questions about human existence. Sure, the ending probably didn't deserve an A+, but as a whole, "Prometheus" was still pretty awesome. 3. Jan 28, 2014 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. A terrible movie/script in almost all ways; * Stupid chars that make stupid decisions. * Quasi-religious and pretentious. ("It's what i choose to belive"...c'mon?!) * Science gets raped.(i.e the FACT of Evolution) * Logic and reason is nowhere. * An insult to the Alien-universe. Even AVP is more enjoyable. * Boring and in no way suspenseful * Not one bit as "profound" that some ppl seems to think. * Auto C-section scene; probably one of the most non-intentionally funniest scenes ever. * Giant squid facehuggers, "Space jockey smash!", terrible Xenomorph, The ol' run in a straight line death-scene.......... I could go on and on... I mean WTH R.Scott? This tripe is such an insult to my senses and intelligence. 120 million dollars down the drain. GG 4. Jan 15, 2014 This movie was ok, but I thought it was going to be better. The producers make the movie preview look good, but when you see the movie it's not as good as you thought it would be. Prometheus doesn't look rated R; it should be PG-13. I'm giving it a mixed review because thriller is my favourite movie genre and I like the title. The movie was a little interesting, even though it had myself questioning some parts. The movie has this unique atmosphere. This movie is worth watching. Synopsis: Scientists visit a planet and discover a species that is quite similar to humans. However, it's not always what it seems like... Expand 5. Jan 11, 2014 This unfortunate movie was marketed as the prequel to his 1978 film Alien, when in fact it is nothing short of a slightly related disaster. The only positive parts of the film were Michael Fassbender’s ‘If-I-Were-A-Real-Boy’ robot character David, the cinematography and the special effects (I believed that vagina monster was coming for me, I really did). 6. Jan 2, 2014 Science Fiction or Faith? At the end of the movie I was a bit confused about this movie leaving unanswered questions. But after thinking about it for some time and few discussions some were answered and I am hoping rest will be answered in the potential sequel as told by director Scott. I haven't seen 'Alien' the film which 'Prometheus' is supposed to be prequel to yet, so my review is treating Prometheus independently. I am ardent science-fiction fan and the plot of based on the questions like "Did someone design humans?", "Where do we go after death?", "Why there is life?", etc. which ponder in my mind everyday generated great excitement and expectations from this film but at the end was slightly disappointed by answers. Leaving where the story ends up aside Prometheus has outstanding visuals with slick cinematography, good performance by Michael Fassbender as a robot(who plays a key role) and generates enough suspense/thrills to entertain and thus receives a positive response from me. Just don't have too high expectations then you will like this film. Expand 7. Dec 29, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. I liked the Alien movies, especially the one by Ridley Scott but this one is just bad. This visuals are good so gave a 2/10 rating. There are two main flaws which ruin the movie completely. The first: Why is everyone acting like a complete idiot? Sometimes it's just painful to be confronted with such stupidity while watching. Hey, there is a maybe hostile alien life form. Let's touch it! Hey, we got this 2000 year old alien head. Let's investigate it in the least scientific way possible and blow it up with some kind of electro shock device. WTF? The 2nd: The logical issues in the plot and the unanswered questions. Why do apes and humans similar DNA? Why were the engineers planning to destroy humanity? What are David's motives? Why was the old guy hiding? The list goes on. I mean, has anyone read the script before making the movie? And why didn't they chose a younger actor for the old guy? Making younger people old in movies never looks realistic. I'm a big fan of science fiction movies. There are a lot of mediocre movies which are at least for me still likeable but this one is not. 8. Dec 14, 2013 Even if it isn't original, Prometheus has jaw dropping visuals and a surprisingly great storyline. Couple that with top notch acting and a tense atmosphere, what you will get is a great sci-fi/horror flick. 9. Dec 9, 2013 Prometheus' visuals are absolutely stunning. The often mentioned plot holes in Prometheus can be explained away if you're willing to dig deep enough-and for me- certainly didn't detract from the film in anyway. 10. Dec 8, 2013 Not a bad movie but yes couldn't live up it's hype. Movie is slow, not the alien sci-fi with mindless action type. It even looks like some fictional Discovery show for most of the time but it's a good movie, definitely worth your money. 11. Dec 5, 2013 This is a really great movie simpliy put and if you have half a brain and use it to think you won't have a problem understanding this movie at all..... 12. Nov 23, 2013 This movie was a ok sci fi movie. It was a TERRIBLE alien sequel. The charecters were uninteresting, made bad decisions (by horror movie standards, no weapons on an alien planet? Come on) and had mediocre dialogue. The movie wasn't scary, had plot holes, and no aliens alien in it until the end. Only see this if their is nothing better on tv. 13. Nov 21, 2013 Great film in my opinion, the only way my opinion will change is if the follow ups don't link it properly to the original story line. Visually stunning, well written not perfect, but nothing is and well executed in general. I loved the original Alien film, liked the other films too. I don't understand what people's problem with Prometheus was. Among the plot holes suggested was them sending stupid scientists personally I thought that the fact that they were hand picked by a multi-billionaire who was quite clearly as mad as a badger explained that quite nicely. Expand 14. Nov 7, 2013 A year old now and I still have nightmares and sweats at how spectacularly bad this film is. I hate you now Ridley. Anyone giving this film more than 3 needs a lobotomy. Or they enjoy Alvin and the Chipmunks movies. 15. Oct 27, 2013 This movie is actually awful. As far a sci-fi and/or horror are concerned. The characters are so stupid as to fill the movie with plot holes, its attempts at being deep are total shots in the dark, and I guess it's supposed to be a really visually appealing movie but nothing the high budget special effects were showing were actually that interesting. 16. Oct 6, 2013 Despite its clear imperfections, I liked Prometheus. Visually stunning and with a great performance from Michael Fassbender, there is a certain something that sets Prometheus apart from other films of the genre. It is profound, ambitious, and fascinating, but suffers from poor decision-making on part of the writers. 17. Sep 26, 2013 I write this perfect-scored review knowing that it probably won't mean anything amongst the massively divided sea of critical opinion but I feel I must share my truly honest opinion. I have been a hardcore Alien fan for ages, as well as a serious devotee to Ridley Scott, so needless to say I was one of the countless swept up in the hype-hurricane surrounding this films development. guess what sets me apart from most is that I witnessed a film that actually exceeded my pipe-dream level expectations. I'll admit that I was skeptical if ANY film could potentially rival the utter brilliance of the 1979 masterpiece. What I was not prepared for was a film that not only did the original perfect justice but proved that it could be redefined. 18. Sep 25, 2013 This is by far the biggest let-down I have ever had the displeasure to watch half of in the local cinema. The special effects were good, but the story line was near non-existant. The robot guy ended up killing people and god knows why, everyone has different theories, but the only thing that keeps this pile of trash afloat is the visual detail and suspense. Suspense for what? What's going on? Oh my god my head hurts from trying to work out what the bloody hell's going on. Dad and I ended up waiting outside while mum watched the rest, and we preferred standing out underdressed at near-freezing temperatures among drunks from the local tavern joking about how godawful the film was than sticking it out watching the rest of that pile of crap. Expand 19. Sep 20, 2013 We are "scientists". The cartoon parody of this film actually highlights rather well the problems surrounding this movie. I'll start with some positives, though. The cinematography is excellent beautifully shot and edited. The underlying musical score is outstanding. It combines to take you back to a more classical style of film making of now household names in the science fiction genre, like The Abyss. Michael Fassbender's performance of the android David was stellar, very rich and nuanced, despite the fact he was essentially playing an automaton. Also of note are Noomi Rapace, Idris Elba and Charlize Theron. I think this movie's main problem is that it suffers from an identity crisis. It has absolutely no idea what kind of film it wants to be. Some trailers advertised it as an action-adventure, a'la Aliens. Others advertised it as something more horrific, a'la Alien. Then other trailers advertised it as a deep philosophical examination of the "big questions" that Humanity tackles, a'la Blade Runner. Looking at the interviews, even the actors didn't seem to know what this film was. Was it an Alien prequel? Was it a stand alone film? Was it a prequel in the sense it just takes place before the original Alien? Nobody seemed to know. After watching the film, neither did the writers. It feels like a mash of ideas rather than a coherent story. In places it wants to be scary and tense, akin to the original Alien. In other places it tries to be subtly philosophical, akin to Blade Runner. In other places it just wants to be a sci-fi action film, akin to Aliens. It can't seem to focus itself into telling its own story. The appearance of a proto-Alien at the end, as if this was the inevitable outcome of all the film's events, confirms this attitude that the film makers either simply could not or were unwilling to tell a story that did not have some connection to the original Alien somehow. Admittedly I was not too confident upon hearing Damon Lindelof (of Lost infamy) was going to be writing the story and screenplay. Lindelof is one of those writers who can produce good ideas, but noticeably struggles to hammer them out into a coherent screenplay. The essence of the story is a $1 trillion dollar mission to find the origins of Humanity (which explains why all the "scientists" who are so gung-ho about their attitude they make the stereotypical redneck look like Einstein all signed up to this four year mission knowing precisely zero about it, as none of them were briefed until they arrived at their destination) based on extremely flimsy evidence (a few cave paintings of ancient Humans pointing to a pattern which happens to correspond to a star constellation). Ignoring the obvious problems with this (red shift, changes in star formations over time and so on), there is already a problem with this concept. We later learn the place Humans were pointing to is simply a weapons research facility, where the Engineers (the aliens who engineered life on Earth again ignoring proven Darwinism) were creating a biological weapon, apparently to unleash against Humans some 2,000 years ago before their own weapons turned on their creators. So why direct Humans to this installation? If they were planning on destroying us when the Roman Empire was still at its height, it can't possibly have been to make Humans visit to test the weapon, or to undergo any other test, as its just a military base. Why go to all the trouble of influencing ancient cultures to this degree, if there is sweet F.A. of any significance at the intended destination? What were Humans supposed to do when they landed outside the Engineer's military outpost? Then its a cue for plot cliches and things happening because the plot demands it, not because it is natural in any way. The biologist is scared he found the existence of alien life when stumbling across an Engineer carcass and runs away with the geologist, who despite mapping the structure and having a near-constant comms link to the ship manages to get lost (my god, even US soldiers nowadays have a dead reckoning navigation if their satellites go down), but then when the biologist comes across an obviously hostile alien snake, he wants to stick his face in it. Score one for character consistency. David the android then contaminates Holloway's drink with a drop of the biological weapon, because he magically knows Holloway will have sex with Shaw, who will then give birth to an alien squid which will then impregnate an Engineer which will then give birth to a proto-Alien. Sure, he may have just been curious about its effects, but it all seems too convenient, just to force the Alien creature into the film in some way. The reveal of Weyland being on board also did not need to be a secret. Weyland does not give two when he is discovered alive by Shaw, and his reason for being there is because he wants to ask the Engineers to grant him eternal life. Uh-huh. 5000 characters is not enough. 20. Sep 12, 2013 unexceptionable on the visual side, the script flaws of vanity. seems to be a continuous self-celebration exercise of their ability to develop complex plots full of historical, philosophical and moral implications. the result is an agglomeration too cryptic that float on the assumption for which spectators will search on google the story understanding. clearly this is the first part of the story with pros and cons. pros is that story can only improve and become more delineated, understandable and astonishing with the next episodes. cons is that you exit from the cinema with the unpleasant feeling of having seen a movie interrupted without know when (and if) there will be the next part and with a lot too much of question with no answer. Expand 21. Sep 6, 2013 Please make me unsee this. This is the worst movie ever, I almost puked when I see it. Nothing entertaining, just nothing. Failed action, failed horror. This movie tries to be priquel to Alien but failing hard in plot. 22. Aug 24, 2013 special effects and cgi are 10/10. unfortunately the rest is crap. The acting is mediocre, the plot is predictable. It starts off essentially as Ancient Aliens: The Movie. they find many cave paintings from across the world and are able to deduce from them that a certain planet may have life on it. By 20 minutes into the movie they are already on their way to said planet. Also, the themes are shoved down your throat. Challenging faith in God, challenging religion in general, etc. I'm not fans of films that completely lack subtlety in their approach to thematic elements. There are myriad ways to explore these themes other than very explicit dialogue from characters. Overall this movie is a 6/10. The CGI/SFX are top notch and I think it should have taken home the academy award for it. But everything else is just... forgettable. Expand 23. Aug 18, 2013 I should give this movie a zero. The only reason I give it not is that the visuals are great. Art designers clearly put a lot of care into that, and they deserve recognition. Ridley Scott, and the guys who developed the plot and the characters on the other hand should be ashamed of pissing all over the heads of the people who wanted to watch a good alien movie, or even a decent one. only thing I could find likeable is the initial scene and the scene where the android is in the ship and everyone else is still sleeping. The rest is ruined by the really stupid characters who act like teenagers more than scientists. They become drunk because after the first 30 minutes of exploring the planet, they (believe) they find discouraging answers. Incidentally, there's never any proof or scientific evidence shown that their statements about the "engineers" are correct. And the nonsensical plot, where nothing is explained, nothing seems to be logical, and events seem to occur randomly. For instance, the attack of the geologist when he is in "zombie mode". I don't get what that scene brings. Pure **** I find this movie insulting. Seen it twice and every time is worse. On the other hand, I kind of like the design of the proto-alien in the very end. A pity that they don't explain a damn thing about why it comes to life. In the first and second alien movie there was a clear biological cycle. In here, there's just some magical black fluid which can either kill you, or turn you into a beast, or you can use it to inseminate your partner with a giant squid which then can implant an alien embryo in another being. Yeah, sure. Want some real alien, watch alien 1 or 2. 24. Aug 10, 2013 Prometheus has an interesting premise but ends up leaving way too many unanswered questions, which can be expected from a movie exploring how humans were created. However that is not the biggest fault of the movie. The main character is dumb, irritating and annoying. She has very few good ideas (like, hey theres an alien inside me, I should get it out), sounds stupid and always wears a weird expression in her face (more bad acting than bad character in this case) and is just so unappealing that I wished her to die somewhere in the beginning of the movie. The ending seems like a sequel bait. Lame. Soundtrack is not fitting to the movie. CGI and special effects are great though. There are a few good scares and some violent scenes too. None of them are emotional though. If I would be asked to recommend this movie, I wouldnt. 25. Jul 29, 2013 epic cinematography beautiful but epically predictable no real scares so many unresolved plot holes . you will find rooting for the aliens by the end 26. Jul 27, 2013 Prometheus was good and entertaining. Although it does not live up to Ridley Scott's earlier films it is a engaging and decent sci-fi film. It wasn't anything spectacular but this film certainly does not deserve all the negative reviews it has gotten. Plain and simple it doesn't live up to the expectations of the audience but that does not outright make it a bad film. 27. Jul 22, 2013 Me encantan las peliculas de ciencia ficcion, ahora se relaciona con los origenes de Alien, tiene buenos efectos especiales, reparto etc... Que no tiene sentido la historia? pues por eso se llama ciencia ficcion, no se pongan tan payasos.. 28. Jul 16, 2013 Starting right off into the film Prometheus was definitely looking at being one hell of a movie, but right up until they land that ship on the alien world they also land the interest straight into a trash can. The only good thing I really took out of this movie were it's visual effects, which I have to say were pretty damn good, however that's all I feel this film offered me. The story was a little boring, not interesting at all, some of the acting in my personal opinion was a little dull, just the feel to the movie was basically a bit poop. I'd say it's definitely something people should watch, but only as a rental. Then decide if you want to buy it or not. 29. Jul 15, 2013 A solid film and possibly one of my favourite Sci-Fi films out there. It's rather slow paced but certainly picks up when it needs to. Stand-out performance would have to be Michael Fassbender but Noomi Rapace is a strong female lead, and Charlize Theron is always spot on with playing a villain role. It held my interest throughout and had an interesting storyline and concept, and peaked at the right times. Overall pretty impressive stuff and those that like the genre won't be disappointed. Expand 30. Jul 5, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. First, the good: I can't say I'm a big fan of 3D, but the cinematography in this film was outstanding and magnified by the 3D effect. The design, to most part, was also very impressive. And now on to the bad... What a very poor script. So much of the dialogue felt unnecessary, fake, or completely out of character. Naomi Rapace's Elisabeth Shaw does not convince at all. It's obvious that she is suppose to be some sort of a Ripley hard shoes to fill, seeing as Weaver's Ripley is probably one of the most iconic sci-fi female film characters of all time. Shaw just ends up a caricature of Ripley, and again this is mostly due to the lazy script. It was hard to sympathise with her in the beginning, and confusing as how she got to be who she was in the end. Other characters in the film were David, the android, superbly played by Michael Fassbender. There is a charming yet creepy quality about his character, who is detached yet at the same time curious. There is a feeling that emotion is there, just under the surface, and it's not all good. Charlize Theron plays cold, Vickers, the person "in charge". She is excellent in this role, which is, unfortunately, so limited, it seems like a waste of a good actress. The same can be said about almost everyone else in the film. So many times people seemed to appear in and out of the film, that you forgot they were of any significance. The only thing I remember about the 2 co-pilots of Prometheus was they had some kinda bet going on. Eldris Alba's captain Janek is initially portrayed as a man who cares about himself and having a good time (he leaves his post for a booty call, putting at risk other crew members) but then puts his life on the line just because someone tells him that otherwise the Earth is in danger (I personally would ask for more of an explanation). Guy Pierce plays old man Weyland why? Where there no older male actors suitable for the part? Under all that prosthetic make-up, it just seemed like, again, it was a waste of a good actor.... There a few scenes of shock-horror in the film, which made me jump a bit out of my seat and cringe some of which a homage to the original Alien franchise, such as an alien-in-human extraction scene. Although nicely done, they alone cannot make up for a poor script. Matters of faith, infection and creation are touched upon but barely explored maybe they are anticipating a sequel? If so, let's hope they'll be more in the writing. There was virtually no suspense, no arc, or genuine shock. It felt superficial it could have been so much better..... 31. Jul 4, 2013 Very disappointing. It's not bad, but it's one of the biggest missed opportunities I've ever seen. First I'll get the good out of the way. Naomi Rapace, (Think that's how you spell it), is definitely a talented actress and she's a good fit for the lead role. Fassbender also gives an impressive performance. The visual effects are impressive too, although at times they're also overly disgusting. Performances and visuals don't really matter however if the material isn't good. Unfortunately the material isn't good. It feels like it's just going through the motions the whole time, and it does, as someone else's review has said, "ruin the mystery of Alien". It does this without any compelling reason either. Couple that with some pretty stupid and bland characters, as well as a surprisingly off putting atmosphere, and you have a film which is a huge letdown. Forgot about plot improbabilities but I'm not going to waste time. There are a few moments of grandeur but they can't save the movie. It could have been rapturous but ends up being one of the slightest big budget films I have ever seen. The original Alien was elegant in its pacing and flawlessly directed. It's atmosphere was masterfully gothic, creepy and awe inspiring at the same time. It was also intelligent and trimmed of anything that didn't work. Prometheus is flat in its atmosphere, lacking in tension, full of stupid scenes, and ultimately forgettable. If a sequel is made, and based on impressive box office earnings it probably will be, Scott better rediscover his touch, because it would sadden me to see him make another mediocre sci-fi film when he has, or had, such talent. Expand 32. Jun 29, 2013 Wow. Thank goodness I didn't waste the money on a cinema ticket to see this when it came out (despite being tempted to thanks to the ridiculous levels of hype Ridley Scott generated). Prometheus is NOT "inscrutable", "mysterious", "intellectual" or any of the other terms used to describe it on fanboy webforums and YouTube rants claiming to "understand" its "true meaning". It is a fantastically stupid film. End of. The only redeeming feature is the gorgeous production design and cinematography. It LOOKS great. But looks can be deceiving. Prometheus doesn't make sense NOT because it is cleverer than we are, but because it is far, far, FAR stupider than we are. It is confusing not because it knows something we don't, but because it is poorly cobbled-together archaeo-religio-scientific claptrap that simply doesn't make sense. The entire film (and all subplots therein) rest upon the shaky foundations known in the business as "the Idiot Plot". NOBODY in this film, at any time does anything that could in a favourable light be labelled as intelligent. Every decision of every character is totally stupid and acts simply to bring them closer to death, which is (surprise surprise) the point of a stupid space-slasher movie. Right now this excrable crud is battling with Batman and Robin for the honour of Worst Film I Have Ever Seen. It really is THAT bad. Expand 33. Jun 27, 2013 Beautiful, and terrible. Picture a child trying desperately to impress its parents, and in doing so destroys everything around them. Now that I think of it, this review has a better narrative interpretation than the movie. At least it looked good. 34. Jun 27, 2013 A beautifully filmed movie that makes you really piece things together. If you love movies that make you re-watch to figure it out, this is one of the best of 2012.. I can't wait until the next one! 35. Jun 25, 2013 Prometheus is magnificent and visually stunning, wonderfully mysterious with a great but horrifying adventure, on the other hand, it is not all positively reviewed, Prometheus movie pacing is poor and boring, and the it is way too longer than it should have been, it is sometimes not completed and leaves with a lot of questions (open ending) which I will be passionately waiting for the sequel, although some reviews are negative, and critics are not that satisfied, but for me, Prometheus is an epic 3D adventure, 70% for the cinematic experience, but it won't be so enjoyable to watch at home, but overall, it is good. Expand 36. Jun 22, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. Prometheus starts you off with a beginning similar in mystery and wonder to that of the liking toward Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey, but on a much larger scale. Throughout the film, you are to encounter an amazing usage of set design and digital effects that are far beyond many other movies seen today. The excitement peaks multiple times throughout the movie with a creepy, dark science feeling in between. Prometheus isn't just your average Sci-Fi horror flick, but an outside and adventurous journey to an alien world where mistakes ARE catastrophic. Though it is within the Alien and Aliens universe, this movie could very well stand alone as it's own masterpiece. The environment of the movie is so controlled but, yet it is free from any enchained mind, making it just as chaotic, if not more perilous than the other films. Prometheus is a keen breed of new and heavy hitting Science fiction-Adventure films that are rare to find these days, making it one of the most unique and awesome pieces of cinema to date. Expand 37. Jun 20, 2013 En ciertos tiempos la pelicula se torna aburrida, pero lo que la alcanza a salvar es el suspenso del trama de la pelicula que logra atrapar demasiado al televidente 38. Jun 17, 2013 Just absolutely horrible. This is one of the worst scripts you'll ever see executed, and I don't just mean because it butchers the Alien franchise, but the movie itself, even if it were stand alone is just horrible. Characters that are inconsistent, plot points and actions that make no sense, motivations that are laughable, it just fails on every level. 39. Jun 7, 2013 Definitely a cool story. It raises a lot of questions that it can't answer, and I feel that it is simply the film being honest with itself and its viewers. This seems to have angered a great many people. On the other hand, some people felt the film was too "anti-sci-fi" and I can see this as a valid complaint, because I often felt this way as well. The main character injects faith into the narrative of the film, and while I can see how it would be necessary, I could have done without it. It felt generic and cliche'. It felt, honestly, a little too family friendly at that point. The film is driving home a hard hitting point, and I felt that the "faith" talk was a way of patting the audience on the head and saying "there, there, no need to fret!" I don't know, maybe that's just me. If you are looking for a hardcore prequel to Alien, then you will also be disappointed. The story is very much its own. It's a good watch, and even a good buy, but I felt it had an identity crisis at times and failed to really drive home its message with confidence. The acting is pretty superb. Fassbender and Theron knock it out of the park. I really love Charlize Theron. She is one of the few "cross over" actors who I feel really have earned their stripes, and she is hands down one of the most beautiful women alive today. Expand 40. Jun 2, 2013 Prometheus is a film that invites a lot of discussion; a hard sci fi flick that is melded with your typical Hollywood blockbuster. Fanatical ALIEN fans will say that it fails to become a hard sci fi, like 'the never made' Rendevouz with Rama'. They say it takes a lot of narrative 'short cuts' in the form of 'stock', predictable characters. The list of criticisms goes on and on....But to me, Prometheus has Scott's biggest strengths and weaknesses as a film maker: visually stupendous at the expense of narrative. It's a Ridley Scott film for crying out loud, in a genre he practically reinvented 30 years ago. When the dust is clear, I think people will realise what a great film this is. Not in the same caliber as ALIEN, but one of his most energetic and mind boggling film he made since GLADIATOR. But a thrill ride that will make you think; it doesn't spoon fed you with answers. Things are left vague for audiences to make their own mind. Scott has also created another 'harrowing and gut wrenching' horror set piece that is up there as the best in the last 10 years (beside the chest bursting scene in ALIEN). So folks....buckle up and just enjoy the ride. Oh yeah, it also uses 3-D in a great way... Expand 41. May 28, 2013 This a great prequel to the Alien franchise! Sure hope that Ridley Scott's sequel to this is any better and we finally get to see our favorite killing machines! 42. May 27, 2013 What's disappointing is more than half of this movie is boring, only last scene is good. Maniac Charlie Holloway, Alien snake, Meredith Vickers running from space ship(why don't she just run left) scenes were bad. I only liked the Engineer turn to skeleton, giant octopus surgery, octopus vs Engineer, and alien birth from Engineer scenes. I wanted to see more scenes escaping from Engineer, octopus and alien birth from Engineer. I really liked the Engineer,the Character was like Michael Myers. I don't want to see a heroine with assault rifle or super powers like Resident Evil: Retribution, I want see heroine like Laurie Strode. Heroine with no weapon or very weak weapon. Protagonist with strong weapon just lose the suspense. Expand 43. May 24, 2013 44. May 24, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. Prometheus may be a very interesting and eerie visual picture, but the praise of it creating questions of fascination is more dampening than it is a praise. I wasn't a very big fan of the Alien franchise, the first one wasn't really doing it for me, the second I love, but those are the only two I've seen besides this one. originally I was thinking of seeing this when it came out, along with the Dark knight rises and the Avengers. But I guess I just lost interest at the last minute. So I decided to catch it when it came out on DVD, and I watched it with friends. I can say that this movie is certainly a very visual dependent film, which is certainly okay, but it does require at least some humanity. By that I mean that it shouldn't be taken over by it's visuals, and unfortunately this film suffers from that same problem. It claims to have answered our questions as to why the Aliens exist; yet while it does give some sort of reason, it also makes the plot much more confusing and hard to follow. The opening doesn't make any sense, I could only think that it shows how humans populated the Earth, but how can anyone tell with such vague details. The ending is not so great either, we finally see an alien/Xenomorpth, but it just shows that they want to make another one after this and then tell us about the Aliens. I'll finish up by saying: This movie; while visually entertaining, is a melttled mess with confusing details, and an unclear story. Expand 45. May 21, 2013 Is totally dissapointing. I can't believe it. Why Ridley? You turn crazy? you betrayed your universe. Sorry, i'm impressed. Only good are the cast. And Guy Pearce as Weyland... 46. May 16, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. By far the worst movie i have ever seen. After seeing it i was pist off because it was so bad. The plot was rubbish, there happened so many thing and not 1 thing was later explained. They send the most retarded fella's on the most important mission of mankind. The woman cuts an alien out of her womb and an hour later she can run, rappel, climb, and not feel a thing? "open to interpretation" my ass. Expand 47. May 9, 2013 I have tried to watch this with an open mind, I did. it's simple, there are far better so called Bollywood movies then this. It's hard to describe how bad this is as I wanted to start of with a positive note, I just can't. No story what so ever. Aliens? Please, this is E.T call earth, that's it nothing more. 48. May 5, 2013 Now, I like how the special effects in this movie is being done. They are absolutely stunning. The ship's interior to the planet are greatly detailed. David and the ship captain are the standouts of this movie for being great characters. The problem with this movie is EVERYTHING ELSE. The plot itself is ok, but the execution is complete garbage. The two dumbasses biologist and map designer got lost even though they're the ones who has the good idea of running before its too late and then got killed because the biologist guy call an alien penis "beautiful", and that's the point where the entire movie got horrible. Afterwards everyone died one by one just like a typical horror flick, and it wouldn't be that bad if the movie is actually supposed to be like that, but its not. The movie is about these ambitious attempt of discovering the origins of human life. These people that died are supposed to be experts on their fields. If these people in the movie are the best that humanity can offer, humanity is doomed. It's completely dumb and stupid. Maybe it's just me thinking about it, it's possible that other people get through the stupidity and enjoy the movie, but come on, 100 by Roger Ebert??? God bless your soul MR Ebert for making a great influence after all these years, but this is the most dishonest review you have ever done and you know it. Please review the best movie of all time with your partner up there. It's called Real Life. 10 years of screentime and it reviews life of every men and women in the world so there's plenty of hating and loving of human nature. Expand 49. Apr 26, 2013 Honestly I loved this movie so I'll just say what I liked and mention my one core, and petty criticism. The story, good. A decent explantion of where the alien ship came from while still acting as a good stand alone story in the Alien universe. Enjoyable and believable characters that are well acted with David, a robot who sees his creator as a father and pretends to be human in the opening, being the best of the pick. Legitimate tension to keep you invested and good action, a great return to sci-fi for Ridley Scott. What I didn't like was the soundtrack, it feels al over the place. Some songs sound like they're from 2001 A Space Odyssey, while others sound like thy're from Alien andThe Terminator. Plus there's this underlying feeling that the story would've been better if it went with the original script. Which wasa straight up Alien prequel. All in all a good movie that expands on the Alien universe in a unique way. 50. Apr 20, 2013 I really feel that this may have flaws but i wont accept people getting a ZERO 0 for this film so i ll get it a 10/10 although it may have some flaws etc the basic concept, back round and fantasy behind this movie is outstanding. 51. Apr 10, 2013 Dear lord what a bad story. Either they had a 10 hour script they had to cut to bits to fit into 2 hours or the execs got ahold of the script last minute and made the writers change everything into a vague mess. 52. Apr 7, 2013 Ridley Scott had a bar that was set very high for this semi-prequel to Alien. Scott does not disappoint. The result was a sweeping epic with fantastic visuals and an unexpected homage to the sci-fi genre. For the discerning eye, there were scenes that were reminiscent of Star Wars, Star Trek, 2001 A Space Odyssey, Aliens, X-Files, The Thing, and probably a few more I didn't catch. The very first scene was surprising and thought provoking, and the last scene was the closest connection to Alien the movie presented, beyond the iconic images already shown in the previews. A very long but never boring adventure, it showcased the great acting talents of Noomi Rapace of the original Swedish "Dragon Tattoo" trilogy and Michael Fassbender, the best android of the Alien films. Charlene Theron continues to amaze as the best "ice queen" in movies today. The film isn't perfect. It stretches the bounds of believability in several areas. Why do two of the "scientists" freak out when seeing an "alien" corpse but have no problem confronting the live "thing" that would make most of us run for cover? Noomi Rapace has a scene that shows she can portray pain-in-action as good as Bruce Willis in Die Hard, but then has action sequences that suspend disbelief more than Willis running on tattered feet. You don't get the slow-paced, dread and suspense of the original Alien or Blade Runner. This has way more action, gore and crowd-pleasing scenes. But it is nonetheless a film that will become a most-see films for genre fans. 53. Apr 7, 2013 This film's alternate title is “Let Sleeping Aliens Lie.” If you don't like that title, try “God Is an Alien.” This film takes a novel view of the eternal question, where do we come from? Darwinism is given a new twist—alien creatures landed on Earth and seeded the planet with their own DNA, which was deposited in the ocean. They apparently came from a planet two years away from Earth, where humanlike Titans were so advanced that they could engineer the human species, which they did after they selected planet Earth to be their experimental laboratory. A group of Earthling scientists, funded by a corporation that spent a trillion dollars on this project, are being flown to investigate this theory which emerged from a series of ancient cave paintings from diverse cultures, each one indicating visitors from outer space in a star cluster that could be mapped. Unlikely, but disbelief must be suspended. Their target is a moon that revolves around planet LV-223. The landscapes in this science-fiction film are gray and sweeping, an alien no man's land that is starkly beautiful but strangely dead. (It is later ascertained that this moon was just a military base for the Titan aliens.) The evidence indicates that the alien spaceships and their occupants, save one lying in stasis, were somehow attacked before they could take off to destroy the very species they had created. Why they wanted to destroy human life when they invented it, and what calamity prevented them from taking off to carry out their destructive plans are the two biggest questions in the movie. And strangely enough, neither question gets answered, perhaps because it will be answered in a sequel. Michael Fassbender plays an unfeeling, caustic robot who has eternal life but no emotions, and with his blonde hair brushed back severely and his classic profile, he looks like the perfect Aryan Ubermensch. Charlize Theron, playing Meredith Vickers, could be mistaken for a robot, but she's actually just an overly businesslike corporate employee who is in charge of the spaceship. The entire cast puts in a good performance, but the attention is focused on archeologist Elizabeth Shaw, played passionately by Noomi Rapace. You would never recognize her as Lisbeth in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (original Swedish version), except for the intensity that she radiates in both roles. She creates the suspense and the terror in this film with every expression on her face. The plot jumps around a bit, so that in some scenes, the viewer might be a little confused about what just happened, as I was, until I read a detailed synopsis of the movie. Nevertheless, if you are a science-fiction lover or a fan of director Ridley Scott, the film has enough entertainment value to keep you riveted to the screen. 54. Apr 6, 2013 I found a new word foe disappointing "Prometheus," I`m sorry but this movie just did not do it for me, it was not what I expected. It`s a movie worth watching, but it was not as epic as I was hoping for it to be. I did watch the Avengers the week before, so I must say that is hard to follow lol 55. Mar 26, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. I went into this movie without expecting much but I was truly surprised by how entertaining it was. Personally, I thought it was alright when nothing bad was happening but when everything started to go wrong and people started dying, it started to get entertaining! When they finally met one of the "Engineers", that scene was unexpected. Michael Fassbender was brilliant as David and the final chest-burster scene was a great start off to the Alien franchise. Go watch Prometheus if you know what's good for you! Expand 56. Mar 20, 2013 If you manage to suspend your belief through a series of insane plot-holes and character missteps, you'll get to see some very pretty special effects. 57. Mar 16, 2013 I understand this maybe the most love/hate movie of 2012, mark me down as love. From the first scenes visuals to the thought provoking story, this is a worthy predecessor to the Alien franchise. 58. Mar 15, 2013 A movie from which nothing meaningful can be extracted. A failure to Aliens as a prequel, a failure to itself as a stand alone film. Under-used Charlize Theron. Had an ending without a resolution or conclusion to anything. This movie has an amazing universe and set peices but does nothing interesting with them. Just one big disappointment. 59. Mar 11, 2013 A Masterpiece. This film is breathtaking. If you were lucky enough to catch it in 3D like I did then you know this is how 3D films should be shot. It wasn't forced, it was just right. 60. Mar 1, 2013 I know for sure that thousands of people will disagree with me, but I hated Prometheus. I saw it in theaters and was truly disappointed to it and still am today. I find this film so bland and unbelievably forgettable. Most people tell me "You probably never saw any of the Alien films." Which is FALSE! I own and saw the first two movies. I never bothered Alien 3, Resurrection, and AVP films because I heard they all sucked. This movie got me interested and anticipated for a long time. But I swear, this is the most overrated movie I've ever watched. Thankfully 'Film Brain' from Channel Awesome had the same problems with the movie as much as I did, so I'm not alone on this. I have no idea how this film was praised by viewers and critics. The story is confusing, the characters were bland, and most of the plot is so BORING! I'm sorry, but agree or not (I know many fanboys will be btching and complaining to me about it), this is truly disappointing to me. I was expecting more from the man that made the 1st film. Expand 61. Feb 23, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. Well, where can I begin? Just finished watching this, and for me the film was a big disappointment. Boring, very predictable and ridiculous in equal measure. Took too long to get going then everything started happening at once in a not very believable way. Too many references to the original alien film for the sake of it. Too many characters you didn't care about. Too many wtf* moments. Prometheus tries to do the same thing as the original alien film. Most of the crew are average Joes, all wise-cracking and treating the whole mission as another day at the office. Of course this isn't very believable from the start. This is a mission which is off to explore something that may end up being the most important discovery in human history. Why do they act like such **ks? The crew of the original alien film are just blue-collar workers on a mining ship, you would expect* them to behave that way. So off they go to explore the mysterious building. Of course they don't take any weapons duh! Well you wouldn't, would you? Exploring an alien structure, why take the means to defend yourself? They just wander around like they are on a school field trip. Loads of what look like holograms appear. A lazy plot device. How are we going to show what happened to the engineers? Let's make them part of the scene, but at the same time not there either. You would think the unarmed explorers would run away, but they just wander around regardless, the people left back on the ship watching it all making wisecracks. The super-military commander in charge doesn't even bother going along. She's back on the ship telling everyone how brave they should be. They release loads of flying probes to map the place but still a couple of the explorers manage to get lost. Well they would, wouldn't they? Ever hear of GPS? They stay the night and decide to wander around and try to pet an alien which turns out badly. Well you would do that in an alien ship at night on your own, wouldn't you? Meanwhile the hot commander on the space ship is too busy sleeping with Idris Elba to notice the two guys both getting killed back in the alien building. Well you wouldn't bother have anyone on the space ship keeping tabs on the guys back in the base now, would you? So for some reason I could never understand a droid poisons one of the crew who starts going bad and his girlfriend gets pregnant and decides to have the quickest abortion in history which she just walks away from 5 minutes later and then they all decide to go and see the engineer who kills them (for being so stupid, I hope god knows I would have done) then a space ship crashes into another spaceship which the two survivors run away from (as you would do) and one of them gets squished (tip run sideways from, not long-ways from, a crashing spacehip) then we get a bit at the end with the engineer getting killed by the female survivors baby then she flies off to visit more of the engineers who killed all her crew (as you would do). So many references to a far superior flim in Prometheus... The superior film being the original alien film. The use of flamethrowers (the original alien film was a mining ship so they didn't have weapons; the flamethrowers were an improvisation. So why no weapons on prometheus other than the small arms fire they used?). The storm that interrupted everything; lifted from alien. The untrustworthy synthetic. The blue-collar crew (believable for a mining ship. Here? Not so much). The whole blase attitude of the crew throughout was baffling. As I said, they knew this was potentially the most important discovery in human history. Yet for them, they may as well have been working a normal day down at the docks. The original alien film was full of surprises and kept you on your toes throughout. You really cared about the characters and what happened to them. Prometheus, in contrast, was ever so predictable. The old guy ended up being on the ship all along! Well I never saw that coming. The hot commander being his daughter... as predictable as night following day. Like watching the light from an oncoming locomotive at midnight you seemed to feel that you saw the plot unfolding half an hour before it was actually acted out in the film. Expect when something ridiculous happened, which happened quite a lot. Did I mention the "auto-doc scene"? I cannot believe the same person who directed the original alien film (one of my favourite films ever) directed this film. Do yourself a favour and don't see this film. Watch the extended cut of the original alien film and remind yourself how groundbreaking that film was. ps.Ridley; Please please please don't do the same to Blade Runner. 62. Feb 18, 2013 I expected so much more from this movie. A modern Sci-Fi related to Aliens, directed by Ridley Scott, how cool is that? Well, it's not. Overall concept is great, a quest to ask our creators lots of questions. But the script was a disaster. It's not even worth to go through. I haven't seen such an amount of "stupid white people" in any other movie, even in standard horror flicks. I'll give it another try sometime, probably, try to rethink it, get a better understanding of the script, but it seems that there's nothing to look for. Expand 63. Feb 18, 2013 I think a lot of people didn't get this. If you are a fan of the Alien franchise then you may feel a little indifferent. I am a fan but I was ready for the ambiguity of an origin story and for my part, was not expecting to see xenomorphs all over the place. This movie felt right for me and certainly is set up well for a sequel. No matter what Ridley says, it is certainly a prequel of an Alien prequel in my view. So many questions, very few answers..........I'm looking forward to a follow-up though. That's where the real links should come together nicely.........hopefully. Very good movie though. Expand 64. Feb 16, 2013 A new Aliens movie OMG OMG OMG 5 mins into the film AAAAAHHHH WTH is going on????? don't worry I thought all will be explained but sadly no it won't. This would of been half decent as a stand alone sci-fi movie however in the aliens universe is pretty poor it breaks the lore in some many ways none of which make sense. Graphically this film is a master piece and I particularly liked Fas and Theron in it but beyond that the plot and story are poor and the aliens tie in is just rubbish. I left the cinema feeling really sad about this film then again for me it's been follwoing in a long line of bad aliens movies. Alien (epic) still one hell of a movie with bit that make me jump even though I've seem them 100 times Aliens watch the special ed (epic) this is still one of the greatest action movies of all time Alien 3 trying to be Alien but still watchable Alien 4 trying to be Aliens this is where the rot sets in and the series starts to go down hill AvP Appauling AvP Requim Appauling Prometheus Extremely graphically superb with some great performances but ultimately in the poorer end of the franchise. Ultimately Prometheus is visually stunning but falls short with the story and Aliens tie in and spoils the lore somewhat. All of the Aliens computer games have also been extremely poor also which is odd as they simply have the best ip for both the movies and games 65. Feb 11, 2013 If the purpose of a film is to make you question every other scene and constantly wonder why someone is doing or saying something, Prometheus has nailed it. This movie has a great cast and director, with some phenomenal effects and cinematography, but has absolutely failed in the one area that counts the most: the writing. Lindelhof (that hack writer from Lost) is at it again with yet another "everything is a mystery with no answers, and that's edgy and cool!" script that will have you pulling your hair out and googling questions after watching it. I've never been so frustrated watching a movie before. Expand 66. Feb 8, 2013 This is the most disappointed I've been in a film in quite some time. I was really looming forward to Ridley Scott getting back to sci fi but this really missed the mark. The writing is so sloppy and the characters are mind numbimgly stupid. One take away is good effects. 67. Feb 7, 2013 The best words I can think of to describe this movie are: Grand concept, but underwhelming delivery. The effects are utterly breathtaking and an absolutely fantastic performances from Michael Fassbender and Idris Elba. The rest of the cast are really just not memorable. But I will say that it does have one scene in it that I did find both disturbing and also very daring in this day and age (it's the scene involving Noomi Rapace's character, and the "Auto-Doc.") Overall: An OK movie that perhaps would have been better off not being associated with the Alien universe as a stand alone movie. In a way it almost is aside from the obvious hints and references. Expand 68. Feb 3, 2013 Best sci-fi film in years. People accusing the film of having plot holes...sorry no. Plot holes are some of those things The Dark Knight Rises is full with (as much as I love that film too). There are not any here. There are some absurd actions coming from the characters if you want. But it ends there. Of course people who don´t like to think won´t like this. The 2 hours feel shorter, the idea of the film (humanity origin) is magnificent and so interesting and disturbing. The tension is present throughout the film. Some scenes are memorable. David´s character is so great and the actor does such a great job. And one last thing which helps to make you feel the experience: the special effects are Mind-blowing. One of 2012´s bests if not the best. The oscar nomination in that category is well-deserved. Big production with a brain. Great stuff Expand 69. Jan 31, 2013 A band of renegade scientists are joined by members of the Weyland Corporation to explore an uncharted planet that may hold the key to our creation, but the biological remains left behind by the world's previous inhabitants will pose a deadly threat that may instead mark the end of existence! Ridley Scott returns to the Science Fiction genre in a major way with PROMETHEUS, a spiritual prequel to the 1979 classic ALIEN. PROMETHEUS falls very closely in line with the look, feel, and overall mood of the original ALIEN, following a similar structure that includes many familiar characters and settings. Where the two diverge is in their actual storytelling techniques. ALIEN tells a simple yet effective story that comes to a conclusive end after the rising tension found in the first and second acts. The unavoidable plot holes that frequent PROMETHEUS raise more questions than answers every step along the way, leaving the audience to question the writers intentions more so than the grandiose theological discussions that are being proposed. If one thing is for certain, however, it is that Ridley Scott has lost none of his command over this visual medium, creating a mind-blowing display of visual effects that take us well into the next century and beyond the farthest reaches of space. With the suspension of disbelief held high, PROMETHEUS can surely be enjoyed as an epic space adventure in search of far greater meaning amongst the stars. Expand 70. Jan 31, 2013 I'm just going to come out and say it, the main reason I watched this movie is because I heard rumors that it was a prequel to the Alien movies. That being said I was impressed to find out that it no only manages to be a kind of sort of prequel, but also it's own unique movie with it's own themes and setting. It ties in well with the universe Ridley Scott established with his movie Alien. It's good and if your a fan of sci-fi movies you should really check this one out. I would love to see a sequel to Prometheus that expands upon what this movies plot. I also have to say that the scene that ties this movie into the Alien series is a great way to not only Ridley Scott to say thanks and pay fan service to the Alien series followers, but to also a great way to tie both movies into the same universe. Expand 71. Jan 25, 2013 A terrifying and surprising prequel to the hit movie Alien. Could gone faster but for the most part intense. 72. Jan 20, 2013 What a total let-down. This made absolutely no sense, and all of these so-called scientists acted like ignorant frightened school kids. There are numerous scientific errors and such impossible outcomes (running after major surgery). This was yet another cynical grab for cash from the Alien franchise - Ridley Scott is a brilliant director but he must feel embarrassed about this lame crock. Some major logic gaps and very poor characterisation. Watching it on DVD only makes it worse. Expand 73. Jan 19, 2013 Firstly, I divided this movie in two parts and secondly, I didn't watch any other Alien-movie. As criticized al lot; there are a lot of questions left. The big question 'What's life purpose?' isn't answered, but that will may be answered in Prometheus 2. But there are also a lot of questions about the movie itself left. What are the octopus/snake-things? What happened to the infected people? (like what would be the exact diagnose, because everyone got other symptoms). What did the 'alien' do in the first 5 minutes? Furthermore Prometheus' crew made a lot of stupid decisions. (you could 'remove' this argument with: 'The owner of the ship was just a simple billionair who wanted some intelligent people'). Like some were first scared of the dead corpses, and later they even tried to have contact with an unknown snake. (There are more of those examples, but I will save you that). Beside this critic I believe this is a real art piece. The CGI is awesome and the atmosphere just sucks you into the movie. Right from the start you're just in Alien's world and you won't escape 'till the end. In short; it's just an awesome movie, which I'd recommend to every Sci-Fi- and maybe even every movie-fan. Expand 74. Jan 19, 2013 I want to start off by saying that if you've set your expectations (like I did) on seeing Aliens or at least some Alien "goodness", you will be very disappointed. However, watching it a second time, I tried to be more objective; to see it as a separate title, not as a "Alien' prequel. Without going very deep (because I would ruin the whole experience) I find this movie -- interesting. It's far from great, it's far from what older Sci-Fi movies have done, not to mention it's way below the bar which the Alien series has set long ago. The plot has some problems and, the characters are rather undeveloped and some of them feel out of place (they're not relevant, given the nature of their task) and the story has a very slow pace. On the other hand, the visuals are amazing and the cinematography - spectacular, all the while the 3D implementation is somewhat pointless. I gave it a 7 because I respect Ridley's effort and although I've been disappointed with it overall, I admit it has strong aspects. Let's face it, the movie industry is on a downward slope for some years now, and it doesn't seem to get any better when even the most respected directors disappoint. Expand 75. Jan 18, 2013 I like this movie a lot. Its the new version of Alien. I don't see Alien so i don't know how he is or Alien is better, I like the story and I like the cast, especially Michael Fassbender. 76. Jan 10, 2013 One of the best of the year. I was a fan of the Aliens series and this shares a common background but takes things in a very new direction. special effects and scenery were excellent. Characters were all well cast and Noomi Rapace is absolutely phenomenal as the tough girl who has to survive some ridiculous events. 77. Jan 6, 2013 I've watched the 3D version of Prometheus in an Imax Theatre and then again on Blu-ray. I was also able to partly watch "The Making" of this movie. This is a film with so much potential. Most will agree that the special effects are just awesome. The premise of the story is excellent but I strongly think it needs a lot more polishing. Ridley Scott and the team, should've taken the time to consult more with real scientists that are experts from varied branches of technology that are involved in the story to help decide how the story reasonably progresses and to add to the realism of it all. People today are much more knowledgeable with technology and sciences compared to when the first Alien film was released. With this, a majority of audiences (especially sci-fi buffs) are more questioning and analytical. That I think is the reason why creating a science fiction film is more difficult compared to a fantasy film like Lord of The Rings. In fantasy movies, you can do mostly anything and audiences won't question you much. Just blame everything on magic! For sci-fi films, it has to be somewhat still rooted to reality and must answer questions as logically and realistically possible. I like the TV series "Ancient Aliens" and "Through The Wormhole". So I can say I also like "Prometheus" for what it is. I just hope the director and the writer took more effort to flesh out everything and that means even the little things such as how scientists think and act in a possibly real world given the scenarios they faced in the film. All in all, I am satisfied with Prometheus and wishing for a much better sequel. 78. Jan 2, 2013 The movie promises to answer some of the most quintessential questions of our existence, but never gets anywhere close. Instead it quickly jumps genre and evolves into an "Alien" for the 21st century (though the old one is still as good and hasn't lost its sheen with time). It's however redeemed by its sweeping visual grandeur and spot-on performances by Rapace and Fassbender. 79. Jan 1, 2013 Prometheus was supposed to be the best movie of 2012 and after watching the first hour it definitely was on it's way of becoming one of the better ones, but the great start totally lost all of it's strength in the mid-section and the end. The director lost my focus bit by bit and towards the end i was not interested at all. The idea of the story is pretty well but it just didn't work out. I didn't really "bond" with one of the characters in general which i usually do. Even though the graphics were great and a 5 should be given because the first part was really well and the graphics were great. Expand 80. Dec 31, 2012 I have not yet seen alien but if it was like Prometheus it would have been pretty good. But i myself enjoy sci if movies. If you don't like sci-fi than I suggest you don't watch this. But, however this movie is a great movie if you like sci fi movies. Prometheus follows the story of explorers and scientists who travel to a distant planet to find out where they come from. But the question is asked. Can they trust Dr Shaw's and Dr Halloways Engineers(names two of the scientist's give who they believe are there creators). This movie contains a good cast containing Charlize Theron, Michael Fassbender, Naomi Rapice, Guy Pearce, Idris Elba and Logan Marshel-green. This movie however is a bit boring for in parts and relies heavily on aliens killing people, but i guess thats just the sci-fi genre. So over all a great movie for people who love the Sci-fi genre. Expand 81. Dec 31, 2012 This is like a comedy: because all the characters are bumbling idiots. It is like a horror: because there is a lot of foreshadowing, deaths and monsters. It is like a sci-fi: because it is set in the future and has spaceships, etc. It is like a like a Scientology recruitment video: because it has a lot of nonsense preaching. But ultimately it is none of these things. It's just a load of muddled crap. It's so stupid, lazy, sloppy, and unoriginal that it gave me a headache. Worst of all, it thinks it is meaningful. We need decent sci-fi films. This does the entire genre a disservice. 82. Dec 29, 2012 The plot may not at first seem what it is. "You came looking for answers? You thought the Creator* would have answers? You were so wrong!" (i.e. Ridley Scott) Sorry. Here is the correct movie leaflet synopsis: A bunch of space cowboys, bored from their hum-drum work, go looking for adventure: boldly going into dangerous regions looking for alien life as a source of entertainment. However, will their amateurish bumbling and nihilistic fecklessness end in disaster for themselves and the life that they look for? The above is the only way one can look at the movie with any capacity to suspend disbelief. In fact, one would imagine that all the characters must be habitual abusers of narcotics, and that the android on board must be terribly badly programmed, in order to explain their erratic and idiotic behaviour (it would go some distance to explain away the bad acting). The holes in the script that are far too numerous to list - but these holes are small potatoes in comparison to these tired crash-test dummies that are called 'characters'. The visuals are brilliant, the technology believable. The aliens in the film are entirely uninspiring. The film hints at things which are potentially quite interesting, but fails to explore any of them. This film could almost be categorised as a prequel to Alien, but doing so would invite a whole additional catalogue of plot holes (so for the sake of the film we'll say that it has absolutely nothing to do with the plot of Alien). This is a suspense film that has no suspense, because one can see everything that is going to happen in advance. Space may be limitless, but the vision of Prometheus manages to be both blurred and narrow - a remarkable combination! Someone writing the script tried (unsuccessfully) to bring religion into the film. Thankfully, the exposition of the spiritual aspects of the plot are both so flimsy and shallow that the can be safely ignored altogether. 83. Dec 28, 2012 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. Prometheus was a movie that I really, honestly wanted to like. And yet after such an interesting exposition the story collapsed into disappointment. The characters made increasingly stupid decisions that resulted in increasingly stupid deaths. It left me asking, must all space thrillers end by decimating nearly the entire cast? It's become far too cliche now. I can see why the director chose to release the movie with an alternate beginning and an alternate end. The story I saw in theaters is probably not the one he wanted to release. Expand 84. Dec 26, 2012 I'm not going to waste any time on the plot as it has been discussed to exhausting heights. But I am going to vent my frustration and heartbreak over Prometheus. The grandest disappointment in cinamatic history and science fiction. Why? Its simple. Alien is a staple of science fiction and suspense the likes of which has been attempted many times but never surpassed. The film itself is a mythical force full of mystery and discovery. It had an unprecedented scope of imagination and discovery like the original Raiders of the Lost Ark. None of these qualities exist in Prometheus on any level. This brings me to director Ridley Scott. Clearly he is not the same man who so eloquently scared the sht out of us while enticing our imagination. I fear that his passion is not to appease our expectations but to create something new. That's acceptable. Prometheus is not. In fact it doesn't even belong in the same scope of storytelling. This is a giant mess of biblical proportions not only in its overreaching ideas of human origins but a complete failure in storytelling altogether. Alien had nothing to prove. It was dry. cold and mercilessly tense. Prometheus wants to be something more while ignoring the principle of what matters most. Imagination. 85. Dec 26, 2012 "Prometheus" proves that, over 30 years after "Alien", Ridley Scott hasn't lost his touch for engaging and dramatic science fiction. In the year 2093, an exploratory vessel named "Prometheus" escorts a group of scientists to an uncharted moon where they hope to discover the origins of humanity - only to find something much darker and more gruesome awaiting them. Perhaps the most interesting thing about this film is that it stands on its own as a science fiction movie just as well as a prequel to "Alien" - it weaves a complex and intriguing plot tracing the evolution and ultimate birth of the iconic extraterrestrial, while also confronting questions about creation that, in the end, are still left not fully answered. And although it doesn't carry the haunting atmosphere of "Alien", scenes such as Shaw's grisly surgery lend it its own grand, dark identity. The special effects are just gorgeous, the acting is good, and there is nothing major that stands out worth criticism. Overall, a very solid sci-fi flick. Expand 86. Dec 17, 2012 Ridley Scott has re-entered the alien universe with a set of stunning visuals and creative story lines which link beautifully with the events of the Nostromo mission in 'Alien'. The opening scene of vivid waterfalls and plush landscapes set the visual tone for the rest of the movie taking it down a darker route as it progresses. Although at times there were slightly unnecessary scenes or some unbelievable turn of events it more than makes up for it in the acting (Michael Fassbender as David could be the performance of his career to date) and momentum. It took a while to really get going but when it did, some gruesome graphics were thrusted into the face of the viewer making it impossible to look away. 'Alien' fans will enjoy this movie. 'Aliens' fans might not. Expand 87. Dec 9, 2012 An epic disappointment unfortunately. Ridley's Scott no talent these days. Fassbender was good as always. Gotta give it up for the Fassbend. Some of the shots are striking, and the environments are cool, even if they do seem a bit familiar. It's a bit of a rehash of Alien in way. Come on Ridley, define a genre again for us, create a world like John Carpenter did recently, like you did with Bladerunner. Give us real horror, real suspense like you did in the original Alien. Mind you I thought even that was a bit slow, Aliens was better. Sorry Ridley. I love you for Bladerunner, and Black Hawk down wasn't bad (haven't seen any others) but I know you can do better. You have another Alien film in you. Don't give up. But give us blood curdling horror and suspense. Expand 88. Dec 7, 2012 I cannot recall another film, recently or in the past, that I've watched and felt such utter contempt for, afterwards. "Prometheus" was a stunningly bad film to have to sit through. Inexplicably confusing from the very beginning, and then it immediately proceeds to become lackluster, boring, and more and more implausible. The relentless stupidity of the witless script and cardboard characters that pervades this film as it ponderously moves forward to it's half-baked "conclusion" (which is only a lead-in to more of this rubbish) is laughably noticable, but you'll feel like crying in frustration when this mess is finally over. Terrible film, simply appalling in every aspect. The characters? Fassbender's performance is drawing raves, but he's acted in better productions, and been far more magnetic than his chilly, repellant "David" character. Rapace is unappealing, Theron plays a wooden ice-block, the rest of the cast is forgettable, expendable, un-engaging. The story? A cross btw. "Mission to Mars," von Daniken's "Chariot of the Gods," and an "Alien" sequel directed by Uwe Boll. The visuals? The natural scenery was nice to look at, but the sets and effects were un-inspiring. ineffectual, unecessary to the plot, or downright silly. Often the camera barely focused on anything for more than a few seconds, as if to say "Oh, it's a giant, stupid looking head. Moving on folks, if you'll look off the starboard bow..." And for $130,000,000 what did people expect, "Dogville?" (This chalk-line represents the alien ship, this one a Xenomorph, etc.) Not a film for discerning movie-goers, of any genre. Anyone who thoroughly enjoyed "Moon," "Sunshine," Soderbergh's "Solaris," or even "Galaxy Quest" I believe will be stunned by how poorly executed and just plain bone-headed this film is to watch. I give this film a "10 out of 100" here only for the beautiful Icelandic scenery, and folks, that truly is all that's worth seeing here. The only questions anyone should be asking themselves after sitting through this is, "How could I have been mis-led into believing this was going to be an interesting film (in the very least) when all it is, is a shlocky, lavishly expensive, Saturday afternoon Grade-B action flick w/ fuzzy science and fuzz-brained leaps of logic?" I know I feel like a sucker for having watched this even once. Shame, Mr. Scott. Shame, Mr.'s Spaihts and Lindelof. SHAME ON YOU ALL! 89. Dec 2, 2012 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. So let me get this straight... In the future, two archaeologists discover a 35.000 years old cave painting, in Scotland. Painted by humans who seemed to worship giant aliens, members of superior space-faring race. Similar finds were made all over the world, of artifacts left behind by independent civilizations that shared no contact. Apparently those ancient aliens posed as Gods, were friendly, and yet, with such teachers and sponsors, all that those humans were able to leave behind were cave paintings made with charcoal and some stone tools. THIS ALONE makes archaeologists forget all about Lucy and other famous australopithecines and hominids. Screw Darwin. We were CREATED... umm...engineered. Because one archaeologist "chose to believe so." Jesus of Nazareth was an alien hybrid, she concludes, I guess. Insulting pseudo-religious anti-science diarrhea at it's best. But wait, it gets worse... On those ancient artifacts are included identical star maps that look like an invitation, she chose to believe. Invitation from whom, you might ask, invitation to go where? Well, invitation from our gods, umm... aliens I mean. To go where? WELL, TO GO VISIT AN ANCIENT ALIEN BIOWEAPONS STORAGE FACILITY, OF COURSE !!! So naturally, humans go and visit. Why would a super advanced race of Engineers invite their Children to visit a bioweapons storage facility, and not a Temple of Knowledge??? A trillionaire named Weyland pays for a space exploratory mission, THE Mission, Mission of all missions. So one would think that such a Mission would be populated by crown jewels of modern science, Cream of the Cream, the Super Intelligentsia, the very best that future Harvard, Oxford and Stanford will be able to offer the richest ,most powerful man on the planet Earth. Right ? Wrong. Weyland handpicked a bunch of retards whose intellect operates on a level of a ten-year-old who learned science from comic books, and bad comic books at that !!! An archaeologist suddenly becomes an expert in genetics and biochemistry, while moron biologist gets lost with a sociopathic geologist in a 3D-mapped cave, while being able to communicate with captain. Alien genome is identical to human genome. Scientists remove their helmets twenty minutes after entering a compound on a foreign planet which they KNOW is populated with alien biology and potential pathogens. And when they encounter a foreign organism (after discovering a bunch of mutilated alien corpses !!!), a sinister looking cobra-like worm, the very first alien humans ever encountered, what do they do ? They start laughing and giggling like drunk high school kids, you know, those retarded football types, and they start petting that god-damned thing. 2000-years-old mummified corpses are twitching like they died five minutes ago and suddenly explode, spraying gallons of bodily fluids all over the lab. That's after those silly "scientists" poke the corpse with an electric needle !!! Yes, that's ancient mummies I'm talking about. A woman who just went through fully opened abdominal surgery is stitched like a cardboard and starts running around. Literally ! They find strange organic liquid stored in vases, on an industrial scale, in ancient alien temple - nobody bothers to properly analyze it. Have you ever seen a NASA news conference or mission room after they landed a new probe on Mars? Those scientists are hugging each other with tears in their eyes. Their voices are shaking. AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN LAND ON MARS PERSONALLY, THEY JUST SUCCESSFULLY LANDED A ROVER!!! Landing on an alien world is every geologist's wet dream, every geologist masturbates to the thought of that! And what does our Prometheus' geologist have to say when he wakes up from cryo-sleep? "Don't bother me with your friendship, I'm here to make money." It's like he just broke out of jail. And so on and on. The idiocy of these so called scientists is beyond belief and it just never stops. It just gets worse and worse with every additional scene. It is actually quite astonishing just how stupid this film is. Is Lindelof mentally retarded? Definitely. It's either that or he just did it on purpose, out of sheer perversion. Is Scott senile? Or just criminally under-educated egomaniacal quasi-intellectual masturbator ? You tell me... I'm perfectly able to enjoy "childish" sci-fi, like Transformers. That's because Michael Bay didn't set out to cheat me. He said Transformer movie is about a sexy couple, cool giant robots, ultra-spectacular action scenes and... that's it. That's what Michael Bay promised us and that's EXACTLY what he delivered. I respect Bay for his unpretentious honesty and I wasn't at all disappointed by his films, in fact - I enjoyed them very much ! But this Prometheus was sold to me as a quintessential A-Movie, a masterpiece of serious, intelligent Sci-Fi. It was supposed to be an intellectual Sci-Fi film. I feel raped. 90. Nov 29, 2012 Prometheus was better than I expected but not as good as I hoped. Bottom line, it was just an ok movie, nothing more, nothing less. Certain scenes were pretty ridiculous and made the movie almost laughable. The acting was nothing special. This was one of those movies where the characters made annoyingly ridiculous decisions. It's tough to really review the movie without giving away too much but I will say this; For a movie that was essentially a prequel, they introduced too many questions without really answering anything. Sure, sometimes this is done in movies to make you think. That's not the impression I get with Prometheus. It honestly felt like there was just some seriously lazy writing. Expand 91. Nov 28, 2012 Although it leaves more puzzles unanswered than it does solved, "Prometheus" remains in my opinion a visually mystifying film with an equally spellbinding story. 92. Nov 24, 2012 It could have amounted to much more, but it delivered. It leaves you with the same questions you had going into the movie, so nothing really gets resolved. As a movie itself, it was interesting, scary at times, and quite exquisitely shot. The director seemed to accomplish the atmosphere he intended to have. 93. Nov 23, 2012 I liked this movie a lot. I was initially a bit shy mainly because of the lower rating on this site, but bought it on amazon instant video on sale, and watched it. It was very well made, acting was spot on, beautiful visuals and effects, and the plot was excellently written. I got a bit nervous part way through that the movie was going to leave me hanging, but it did a great job giving answers. They left it open for a sequel, which I hear is coming in 2014. It would likely be a bit more challenging to follow if you weren't familiar with the Alien movie and it's sibling movies, but being that I am, and find that universe interesting, this movie was an intriguing addition. The makers seem to have gone out of their way to separate themselves from Alien but there was definitely a strong connection. It wasn't a direct prequel, but certainly in the same universe. Nice job Ridley Scott. I look forward to the sequel. Expand 94. Nov 18, 2012 Let me start by saying the movie looks incredible but that is really all i had to say really good about it. It tries to explain the most important questions of mankind but comes up flat and the plot didn't have an imagination to it when it came to explaining the questions it tried to answer. 95. Nov 18, 2012 It is a real pity that a film as visually astonishing as Prometheus, with good cast and a visionary director on a story based on the very question mankind has always tried to answer (where do we come from?) to fall short due to lack of suspense, very poor script and the ridiculous looking 'humanity makers'. 96. Nov 18, 2012 Out of respect for Ridley Scott, I award this film a 5. If the film did not have high-end effects and production design, it would seem at amateurish as those B-movie black white serial sci-fi adventures that were re-shown on early TV during the 50's and which I then found too corny to watch. Where did they go wrong? And why the sop to the great Alien film series at the end of this film? A real disappointment. I usually trust Roger Ebert's reviews: why the "100" review from him? Expand 97. Nov 16, 2012 Even a movie about the far away future, a movie that by definition involves nothing but speculation, must retain some semblance of believability. This plot has so many illogical holes in it that you spend much of your time thinking about how ludicrous the scenes are. This is not a momentary lapse, this problem runs through the entire film. While the movie is watchable, is is so poorly written that you cannot escape into the fantasy. Expand 98. Nov 13, 2012 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. One of the worst movie I have ever seen!!! It is Science-fiction without the science part! The cons: 1. PLOT HOLES (As big as the distance between Earth and the planet they have visited!) 2. No character development (Noomi Rapace's boyfriend is "murdered" by the android David, but at the end of the movie they become buddies...OK...) 3. The "scientists" are nothing like real life scientists (They act childish and not like a group of professionals sent to a billion dollar mission) 4. WASTED TALENT (The movie stars actors as Noomi Rapace, Michael Fassbender, Charlize Theron but even they can't save the movie) 5. The ending (Ridley Scott made the movie unfinished just to make a sequel in the future...He needs to pay the bills too!) 6. The science (They land on a plant without mapping it first, Noomi Rapace's self-surgery and how she walks around after that ETC.) 7. No suspense (There are several action scenes but they feel very dull and stupid) And many more problems the critics seem to forget about when they give the movie 100/100 scores!!! Maybe they were watching a different movie....GOOD FOR THEM! 99. Nov 12, 2012 So much potential and great special effects that go to waste with a sub par story that leaves more plot holes than questions it actually answers. Its severely weighted down being a prequel to Alien. Would be far better as a stand alone. 100. Nov 12, 2012 I had to review this movie again & after watching it 3 straight times I've come to this conclusion...why was this movie made? Can Mr lindenloft explain that....? Once again the opening scene is utterly proves we were not made from them but like an unwanted baby growing in the womb of some chic you just wanted to accidently got her pregnant which is what the opening scene STONGLY SUGGESTS! His DNA turns black & withers away but he falls in the water & wah la....were accidentally created so when you hear...why are we hear or why did they create us common sense should tell you to laugh! The acting is superb...the visuals are impressive throught out but that's not enough to cover the SHEER IDIOCY of what follows next with no logic what so ever! Why is David seen eating food in the beginning & drinks the same green juice as the captain when they all first awake if he's a machine? Why does David care about his looks..he's a machine? Why did weyland fake his death? It serves no purpose since it wasn't explained why he did it! why is David so sensitive to insults? How do you come to the conclusion that cave drawings are an invitation from aliens....when humans drew the pictures? Why is it that when everyone is told...WE FOUND A NEW PLANET THAT MAY HOLD THE KEY TO OUR one gets excited? How can you conclude that these aliens are what made us with absolutely no proof? I thought scientist's relied on facts? How is it that they have high tech equipment & a spaceship but have helmet cam's that cant record? Why show holograms of aliens running but not what's chasing them? What happened to all the aliens that killed our creators?did they leave & if How do you get lost when you have video & radio contact with the ship & crew...AND A 3D MAP YOU JUST MADE? If the head of an alien is so important(& it was) why electrify it without testing it to make sure you don't destroy it? Why didn't halloway stop them from destroying an important find? Why did David kill halloway? I thought he probably wanted data on what would happen when he introduced alien dna to the human body but they ignored giving a logical resaon for why he poisoned him! Why play with an alien snake? I thought these people were smart? Why did David turn off the cam so vickers couldnt see what he saw? Why didn't vickers ask David why he turned off the camera when he got back? Why are there holograms of aliens practically showing anyone who comes there how to fly there ship but no lab where the bio-engineered aliens were made? How can you use a flame thrower in an environment that has no air?if David was really a shady character wouldnt he have helped get the Alien out of Shaw & take it for himself like he took the alien capsule in the cave? Why is vickers in possession of a medical machine that's only for men?HOW DID SHAW USE THAT SAME MACHINE to get the alien out of her when it scanned her? I'm sure it noticed she was female but it still performed the operation? Why didn't anyone question why Shaw walked in the room all bloodied with a Hugh scar across her stomach? Why didn't she tell anyone about the alien trapped in the machine? How did fifield just pop up if he was looking at the screens the whole time? Why was fifield a murdering zombie? After fifield was run over where did the guy drive off to...he left the ship & never returned! After just pulling an alien out of her body & learning that weyland was still alive...why continue back to the cave instead of seeking medical attention?why was our creator sleep if they were planning to kill all humans? Why did he go berserk & kill everyone if they so intelligent? Why kill all humans anyway? The captain told vickers to go to HER ship & he will eject it in 40seconds(which he did) SO WHY DID SHE GO TO AN ESCAPE POD? why run from a ship falling in the EXACT path that your running? Yet not go left or right? Why travel to an alien homeworld to get answers when you see first hand they'd rather kill us then talk to us? WHY DID I WASTE TWO HOURS WATCHING THIS ILLOGICAL MESS TO SEE AN ALIEN POP OUT THE ENGINEERS CHEST(ITS WHY I SAW IT IN THE FIRST PLACE) ONLY TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE ENDING CREDITS? people like this crape but cant explain why...they just say it was good but don't know why lol well...I have a Hugh list supporting why this movie is a waste of brain cells....AVOID THIS IF YOU WANT ANY LOGICAL ACTIONS BY SCIENTISTS. BUT IF YOU LOVE NICE VISUALS WITH A GOOD IDEA RUINED BY IGNORANT PEOPLE POSING AS SCIENTIST'S WHO DOES THE MOST ILLOGICAL THINGS FITTING OF RETARD INBRED HILLBILLY PROMETHEUS IS FOR YOU....A RELIGIOUS SCIENTIST'S GOOD GOD THIS SCRIPT WAS BAD!! Expand Generally favorable reviews - based on 42 Critics Critic score distribution: 1. Positive: 24 out of 42 2. Negative: 1 out of 42 1. Reviewed by: David Denby Jun 11, 2012 Scott may always have had an eye on the box office, but from "Alien" and "Thelma & Louise" on, he has made women into heroines. In that regard, he's still ahead of the curve. Rapace's scene is a classic of its kind; it tops John Hurt's notorious misfortunes in "Alien." 2. 70 It's a different sort of experience: a stately, somewhat plodding but endurable science-fiction saga. 3. 75 There's definite mastery here, but it's hardly a masterpiece.	http://www.metacritic.com/movie/prometheus/user-reviews?sort-by=most-clicked&num_items=100&user_review_id=2515461	<urn:uuid:3a559832-2efb-4a54-bc73-f653ec982195>	en	0.970993	0.21374
U.S. Department of State Country Report on Human Rights Practices 2005 - Mauritania Publisher United States Department of State Publication Date 8 March 2006 Cite as United States Department of State, U.S. Department of State Country Report on Human Rights Practices 2005 - Mauritania , 8 March 2006, available at: [accessed 13 March 2014] Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor March 8, 2006 Mauritania is a highly centralized Islamic republic dominated by a strong presidency, with an estimated population of three million. The constitution provides for a civilian government composed of a dominant executive branch, a Senate, and a National Assembly. Former president Maaouiya Ould Sid'Ahmed Taya headed the ruling Republican Social Democrat Party (PRDS) and governed since 1984. Taya was reelected president in 2003. Opposition candidates alleged widespread fraud but chose not to contest the election's results via available legal channels. On August 3, for president Taya was deposed in a bloodless coup. Military commanders led by Colonel Ely Ould Mohammed Fal seized power while Taya was abroad. Colonel Fal established the ruling Military Council for Justice and Democracy (MCJD) to run the country. The council dissolved the parliament and appointed a transitional government. Following national consultations with political parties and civil society in October, the junta and transitional government released an election timeline culminating in presidential elections in March 2007, and the junta has announced that it will relinquish power by May 2007. Both the former and transitional governments refused to officially recognize several political parties. Civilian authorities generally maintained control of the security forces until the August 3 military coup, when the military leadership seized control of the security apparatus. Both the former and transitional government's human rights records remained poor; although there were some improvements in a few areas, serious problems remained. Human rights were negatively impacted by the many problems facing the country, including persistent drought, widespread desertification, flooding, and the effects of the massive locust invasion in 2004. The country suffered from rapid urbanization, extensive unemployment, pervasive poverty, and a burdensome foreign debt. The concentration of much of the country's wealth in the hands of a small elite, as well as a lack of transparency and accountability in certain areas of governance, impeded economic growth and created a permissive environment for human rights abuses. The following human rights problems were reported: • citizens' inability to change their government • impunity • harsh prison conditions • arbitrary arrest and detention and prolonged pretrial detention • illegal searches • executive influence in the judiciary • restrictions on freedom of speech, the press, and assembly • limits on freedoms of association and religion • widespread public perception of governmental corruption and lack of access to government information • government refusal to officially recognize some nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) and human rights organizations • discrimination against women and female genital mutilation (FGM) • trafficking in persons • ethnic and racial tensions continued and the under representation of largely southern based ethnic groups in political life • slavery in the form of involuntary servitude persisted, particularly in remote regions of the country • child labor in the informal sector a. Arbitrary or Unlawful Deprivation of Life During the year, neither the former nor the transitional government or its agents committed politically motivated killings; however, security forces killed persons during the year. On June 21, Mamadou Salui Diallo, a 58-year-old Guinean fisherman, died from injuries he sustained while in police custody. His family reported that police beat him to death; however, police claimed he committed suicide by throwing himself into a wall at a Nouakchott police station. Both local and foreign NGOs condemned the incident as an example of a police killing. The former government's internal investigation allegedly supported the police version of the incident. During the year, police forcibly dispersed demonstrations during the year, which resulted in a death (see section 2.b.). The trial of the two policemen charged with the 2003 killing of Amadou Kane began in 2004. The trial continued at year's end. There were no developments in the 2003 drowning of Taleb Boubacar on the Nouakchott beach or in the official investigation into the killing of a teenager in Kaedi. b. Disappearance There were no reports of politically motivated disappearances. Although the law prohibits such practices there were credible reports that police routinely beat and tortured suspects in custody, which resulted in at least one death (see section 1.a). There were instances of torture in prisons. Alleged police torture techniques included beating, hanging, burning with cigarettes, electric shock, and cutting. According to reports, those who lacked money or influential family or tribal ties were the most likely to be tortured. Prisoners released under a May amnesty reported repeated beatings, in particular at the Ouad Naga and police school prisons (see section 1.d.). Prisoners cited a March 15 beating when forces, under the command of gendarmerie lieutenant H'Moudy Ould Taya, attacked the group, beat them and stole their possessions and clothing. On September 29, the Nouakchott Info, a local daily newspaper, reported the torture of several Islamists including Ismael Issa, arrested by the former government during the yea; Issa remained in prison. The article included a graphic photo of Issa's legs, which bore severe wounds reportedly inflicted by police during various interrogations (see section 1.d.). Prison and Detention Center Conditions Prison conditions remained harsh, although prison administration continued to show improvement. In some prisons, serious overcrowding persisted, and sanitation facilities remained inadequate, reportedly contributing to diseases such as tuberculosis, diarrhea, and dermatological ailments. Medical supplies, mainly provided by an international NGO, remained insufficient in all prisons. Budget allocations to improve prison conditions remained insufficient in all prisons. Physical conditions in Nouakchott's Central Prison improved because of construction projects that began during the year and were ongoing at year's end. Prisoners with high-level connections and with families to bring them food, medicines, and reading material fared better than the less privileged or citizens from other countries. Guard force management generally enforced regulations against beatings and torture; however, there continued to be credible reports of beatings and torture of detainees at several prisons throughout the country. The nationwide prison capacity was 800, and, as of December the prison population was an estimated 815. The prison population in Nouakchott was approximately 435 persons, with 394 men, 6 women, and 35 minors; women and minors were held in two separate facilities. During the year the transitional government began construction of a new central prison north of Nouakchott to hold sentenced male prisoners. The women's prison employed both male and female guards. Children of female prisoners remained with their mothers, or the Ministry of Justice gave temporary custody of the children to another family member. The Noura Foundation, an NGO working in the prisons, provided education and domestic training to the female prisoners. UN Children's Fund, in collaboration with the Catholic NGO CARITAS and the Noura Foundation, provided services such as job training, gardening instruction, and sport activities in the juvenile detention center. Pretrial detainees in all detention facilities were frequently held with convicted prisoners as a result of overcrowding. The former and transitional governments permitted prison visits by NGOs, diplomats, and international human rights observers. During the year foreign diplomats visited some prisons during the year. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) had access to prisons and conducted multiple prison visits during the year. The ICRC visited prisoners both before and after the August 3 coup. By year's end their findings were not reported. d. Arbitrary Arrest or Detention The law prohibits arbitrary arrest and detention; however, there were frequent reports that the police arbitrarily arrested and detained citizens. Role of the Police and Security Apparatus The National Guard performs police functions throughout the country in areas in which city police are not present. The gendarmerie is a specialized paramilitary group responsible for maintenance of civil order in and outside metropolitan areas. The police, who are under the control of the Ministry of the Interior, lacked equipment and training, which often weakened attempts to enforce the law. Corruption was believed to be endemic at all levels of the police. Police generally acted with impunity. The former and transitional governments often did not hold security officials accountable or prosecute security officials for abuses. On August 3, former chief of the national police, Colonel Ely Ould Mohammed Fal, overthrew former president Maaouiya Ould Sid'Ahmed Taya in a bloodless coup (see section 3). Arrest and Detention The application of constitutional safeguards continued to vary widely from case to case. The law requires duly authorized arrest warrants, but they were not commonly used. The law requires that courts review the legality of a person's detention within 48 hours of arrest. The police may extend the period for another 48 hours, and a prosecutor or court can detain persons for up to 30 days in national security cases. Only after the prosecutor submits charges does a suspect have the right to contact an attorney. While one article of the law provides detainees with the right to prompt judicial determination of the charges against them, an older law allows the government to detain persons for up to 30 days without a judicial determination. The former and transitional governments frequently adhered to the older law, the former government particularly during politically turbulent periods. A provision for granting bail exists but was rarely used. The former government arrested journalists during the year (see section 2.a.). There were reports of political detainees. From March to July, the former government detained approximately 80 Islamists, including Islamist leaders Cheikh Mohamed El Hacen Ould Dedew and Moctar Ould Mohamed Moussa, who it claimed were tied to terrorism. On May 28, the former government charged 37 with membership in unrecognized groups or for inciting violence and making harmful political statements at mosques. The former government released 14 others, leaving 66 in prison (37 of whom had been charged). A majority of the arrests appeared to be based on alleged political activities rather than religious beliefs. The transitional government released 21 of the 66 Islamists soon after assuming power, and on September 2 released an additional 24 for lack of evidence, leaving 21 in prison. The transitional government stated that it had sufficient evidence to hold the remaining 21, and was making its case against them at year's end. The ICRC visited them numerous times during the year. According to some neutral observers, police in some regions arrested former criminals and demanded bribes for their release. Pretrial detention was a common practice. Some indicted detainees were released before trial without explanation. There were credible reports of persons remaining in pretrial detention months or in some cases years. All prisoners tried in January for attempts to overthrow the Taya government, including 129 connected to the June 2003 coup attempt, were released from prison. The former government released all but 32 after their cases were dismissed or their time was served. In September the transitional government released through a general amnesty the remaining 32 who were convicted of coup plotting and related crimes (see section 1. c.). e. Denial of Fair Public Trial Although the law provides for the independence of the judiciary in practice the executive branch exercised significant influence over the judiciary through its ability to appoint and pressure judges. In addition, poorly educated and poorly trained judges who were susceptible to social, financial, and tribal pressures limited the judicial system's fairness. Prior to the coup, the former government worked on judicial system reform, which included creating specialized appeals courts and training judges, prosecutors, and police on procedures for applying the country's laws, particularly those laws concerning human rights and trafficking in persons. The transitional government continued with these reforms. In August the transitional government formed an inter-ministerial committee to propose judicial reforms with an emphasis on establishing magisterial independence. The committee's report, released in November, listed several themes for judicial reform, including ensuring the independence of the judiciary, improving human resources and training for legal officials, and modernizing the justice system. The transitional government made minor staff changes to the judicial structure, including appointing a new minister of justice, Ould Bettah. There is a single system of courts consistent with modified principles of Shari'a (Islamic law). Departmental, regional, and labor tribunals are the courts of first instance at the lower level. The 53 departmental tribunals, composed of a president and magistrates with traditional Islamic legal training, heard civil cases involving sums less than $39 (10 thousand ouguiya) and family issues, such as domestic, divorce, and inheritance cases. A total of 13 regional tribunals accepted appeals in commercial and civil matters from the departmental tribunals and heard misdemeanors cases. At the middle level, three courts of appeal, each with seven chambers (civil, commercial, administrative, and penal chambers, as well as criminal, minors, and labor courts) heard appeals from the regional courts and have original jurisdiction for felonies. The Supreme Court was nominally independent and was headed by a representative appointed to a five-year term by the president. The Supreme Court reviewed decisions and rulings made by the courts of appeal to determine their compliance with the law and procedure. Constitutional review was within the purview of a six-member constitutional council, composed of three members named by the president, two by the national assembly president, and one by the senate president. The Supreme Council of Magistrates, over which the president presided, undertook annual review of judicial decisions; the president and senior vice president of the Supreme Court, the minister of justice, three magistrates, and representatives from the Senate and National Assembly were members of this council. The annual review was intended to determine whether courts applied the law correctly and followed proper procedures. Reviews also served as a basis for evaluating the reform process and reassigning judges based on their qualifications. Trial procedures The law provides for due process. Defendants have a right to a public trial, but juries are not used. All defendants, regardless of the court or their ability to pay, have the legal right to representation by counsel during the proceedings. If defendants lacked the ability to pay for counsel, the court appointed an attorney from a list prepared by the National Order of Lawyers, which provided a defense free of charge. There is a presumption of innocence and the right to appeal. The foregoing rights generally were observed in practice. Shari'a provides the legal principles upon which the law and legal procedure are based, and courts did not treat women as the equals of men in all cases (see section 5). The minimum age for children to be tried was 12. Those between the ages of 12 and 18 were tried and, if convicted, sentenced to the juvenile detention center. There was a special court to hear the cases of children under the age of 18. Children who appeared before the court received more lenient sentences than adults, and extenuating circumstances received greater consideration in juvenile cases. In January the trial of the 181 men who were charged with either participating in the 2003 coup attempt or with plotting other coups, although reportedly politically influenced and with many irregularities, ended with lighter than expected sentences and no death penalties Political Prisoners There were no reports of political prisoners. The law requires judicial warrants to execute home searches; however, the former government authorities reportedly often ignored this requirement. There were no reports regarding the transitional authorities' adherence to this requirement by year's end. Former government surveillance of dissidents and the political opposition was believed to continue; however, the extent to which they used informants was unknown. Although there were no reports, the transitional government likely continued this practice. There were no reports that former or transitional government officials misappropriated land under the land reform system. The transitional government has taken no steps to cure past misappropriations, asserting that this is an issue best dealt with by an elected government. There were no reports of misappropriations during the year. 2. Respect for Civil Liberties, Including: a. Freedom of Speech and Press The law provides for freedom of speech and of the press, but the former and transitional governments continued to restrict these rights through prepublication press censorship by the Ministry of the Interior and domination of broadcast media. In a few cases, media groups were refused access to public forums or censored for criticizing the former government. All newspapers must register with the Ministry of the Interior; registration was routine. Two daily newspapers, Horizons and Chaab, were government owned. There were approximately 25 privately owned newspapers that published on a regular basis, in both French and Arabic. NGOs and the privately owned press openly criticized the former government and its leaders, while little criticism was directed at the transitional government. Former antigovernment tracts, newsletters, and petitions circulated widely in Nouakchott and other towns. Newspapers, journals, and privately published books were exempt from all taxes on materials used to produce them. Radio was the most important medium for reaching the public, and the official media strongly supported the former and transitional governments' policies. Except for the radio broadcast of Radio France International, all broadcast media (radio and television) were government owned and operated. The former government continued to deny, or simply not respond to, private applications to establish domestic radio stations. In December the transitional government allowed RFI to resume radio broadcasts. At year's end the transitional government's position on establishing domestic radio stations was not known. Using satellite receivers and dish antennas, citizens could receive worldwide television broadcasts. During the year several journalists were arrested by the former government. On May 19, Mohamed Mahmoud Abou Al Maaly, director of the regular weekly Arabic newspaper, Akhbar Nouakchott, was arrested and released two days later. Prior to his arrest, Maaly wrote articles against the former government's crackdown on Islamists, including one article which included an interview with the Islamic leader Jemil Mansour, who at the time was in hiding from the government. On July 12, police arrested and reportedly abused Mohamed Fadel OULD Ahmed Vall. Prior to his arrest, he had been filming the Thieb Thieb market, a well known black market in Nouakchott. Police released Vall the same day but confiscated his tape. Two newspaper employees were arrested during the year by the transitional government. On October 19, police arrested journalist Adil Ould Sijad and director Moulay Najem of the regular weekly French-language newspaper, Points Chauds, after the paper ran a story on a pornographic film reportedly made in Nouakchott's central prison. Najem was released the following day, but Sijad remained in prison until late November. The Press Law requires publishers to submit copies of newspapers to the ministries of interior and justice before distributing them. The Ministry of the Interior reviewed all newspaper copy prior to publication and usually authorized sales and distribution within two to three days. The Press Law; however, provides that the minister of the interior can stop publication of material that discredits Islam or threatens national security. The former Ministry of the Interior censored two editions of independent newspapers during the year. On March 15, the 46th edition of the Arabic-language newspaper, Al Marsad, was suspended for no reported reason. On April 6, the 482nd edition of the French-language newspaper Le Calame was suspended reportedly for attempting to publish a story regarding a disagreement among high-level military officers. During the year transitional government censored one newspaper. The August 16 edition of the French-language newspaper Le Mehariste was censored, reportedly for attempting to publish a story on slavery. The Ministry of the Interior on two occasions delayed papers for several days but later allowed their publication. The moves appeared less an attempt at censorship than an internal bureaucratic mistake. The Arab-language private newspaper, Ar-Raya closed by the former government in 2003 as a result of its links with Islamist political leader Jemil Mansour, remained closed during the year. The Arab-language private newspaper, Al Jawahir, closed by the former government in 2004 as a result of its alleged financial links to Libya, remained closed during the year. Opposition parties' access to government radio and television broadcast facilities was extremely limited prior to the August 3 coup. These groups received greater access after the coup but were still subjected to occasional censorship. On October 3, a televised program in which political parties discussed sensitive issues of repatriating displaced Afro-Mauritanians was censored from broadcast on a public television station. The former and transitional governments did not restrict access to the Internet or academic freedom. b. Freedom of Peaceful Assembly and Association Freedom of Assembly The law provides for freedom of assembly, and, while the former government sometimes restricted this right in practice, the transitional government has largely respected it; however, police dispersed at least two pro-Taya demonstrations, a human-rights demonstration, and a sit-in protesting the return of refugees on the pretext they did not have permits. The law requires that all recognized political parties and NGOs apply to the local prefect for permission to hold large meetings or assemblies, and permission was generally approved. During the months of May through August, police regularly used force, and in some instances tear gas, to disperse demonstrators or crowds that formed in Nouakchott. These crowds often gathered in front of the Central Prison, either to protest the former government's treatment of Islamists, or to request the release of friends and relatives. There were credible reports that persons were injured during these police actions. Zeinabou Mint Youssef, a seven-months' pregnant woman, died on June 2 from injuries received when police forcibly dispersed a crowd of protesters on May 28. Zeinabou and others protested in front of the Central Prison against the arrest of several Islamists opposed to former president Taya. Police and former government officials denied any involvement in her death. Freedom of Association The law provides for freedom of association; however, the former and transitional governments limited this right in practice and circumscribed the efforts of some groups by denying them official recognition. The former government recognized three human rights NGOs but refused to recognize the major political party, The Party of Democratic Convergence (PDC) (see section 4). In October the transitional government also refused recognition to the PDC. In December the transitional government recognized the political party, Democratic Renewal. All political parties must register with the Ministry of the Interior. Organized political parties (29 under the former government and 30 under the transitional government) and a wide array of NGOs, many of them highly critical of the former government, functioned openly, issued public statements, and chose their own leadership. The former and transitional governments did not grant certain NGOs official standing but did not prevent them from functioning (see section 4). Groups were often refused recognition under laws which prohibited the formation of racially or religious-based organizations. These laws were used by the former and transitional governments to ban Islamist political parties. The former and transitional governments continued to ban the political parties Action for Change, Union of Democratic Forces-New Era , An-Nouhoud, and Taliaa (Vanguard). c. Freedom of Religion The constitution establishes the country as an Islamic republic and decrees that Islam is the religion of its citizens and the state; the former and transitional governments limited freedom of religion. Christians in the foreign community and the few Christian citizens were usually permitted to practice their religion openly and freely. In April police told four small West African Protestant groups, which held prayer sessions in members' homes, to stop meeting and encouraged them to relocate their activities to the compound of the Catholic Church, where the Catholic Church and the Evangelical Church held regular meetings. The former and transitional governments did not register religious groups, although NGOs had to register with the Ministry of the Interior (see section 2.b.). There included humanitarian and development NGOs affiliated with religious groups. The government arrested numerous suspected Islamists during the year (see section 1.d.) Although there is no specific legal prohibition against proselytizing by non-Muslims, in practice; the former and transitional governments prohibited proselytizing by non-Muslims through use of the press act, which bans the publication of any material that is against Islam or contradicts or otherwise threatens Islam. There were no reports that the former governments punished persons for violating this provision during the year. In December transitional government authorities arrested a British subject and held him for several days for reportedly distributing a cassette tape with Christian content. The former and transitional governments viewed any attempts by Christians to convert Muslims as undermining society; however, the former and transitional governments also restricted suspected Islamic extremists. There were no known non-Muslim groups engaging in proselytizing, and foreign Christian NGOs limited their activities to humanitarian and development assistance. Under the press act, the government may restrict the importation, printing, or public distribution of Bibles or other non-Islamic religious literature, and in practice Bibles were neither printed nor publicly sold in the country. The possession of Bibles and other Christian religious materials in private homes, however, was not illegal, and Bibles and other religious publications were available among the small Christian community. Societal Abuses and Discrimination A very small number of expatriates practiced Judaism. In May citizens conducted several public protests against the former government's continued recognition of Israel, and during the protests made derogatory statements against Jewish persons. The law provides for these rights, and while the former and transitional governments generally respected them, in some regions, persons lacking identity cards could not travel freely. The former and transitional governments set up roadblocks where gendarmerie, police, or customs officials checked the papers of travelers and often demanded bribes. During the year the former and transitional governments generally maintained fewer roadblocks and reduced the time taken in questioning and conducting vehicle searches. In the weeks following the coup, there was an increased security posture. There were fewer reports of more stringent searches in the southern border areas. The law does not prohibit forced exile, and the former government used it during the 1989-91 crisis; however, there were no reports that the transitional government used it. The office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) estimated that there were between 15 thousand and 20 thousand refugees from the 1989-91 crisis remaining in Senegal, although refugees have continued to return independently in small numbers and have benefited from small-scale agro-forestry, health, and sanitation projects continued by NGOs and humanitarian workers. Cooperation by local authorities in addressing restitution and citizenship matters varied greatly, depending on individual officials and the returnee's region. Many returnees received their original homes, some property, and all or a portion of their land. Throughout the Chemama or the Senegal River Valley region, returnee communities were reestablishing their agricultural production; however, recovery of land titles remained the primary issue. Timely restoration of identity papers varied, and some of those who returned in 1995 have not yet received identification cards. Protection of Refugees The law does not provide for the granting of asylum or refugee status in accordance with the 1951 UN Convention relating to the Status of Refugees or its 1967 protocol, or the 1967 African Union Convention on the Status of Refugees, but the former government has established a system for providing such protection. In practice the former and transitional governments provided protection against refoulement, the return of persons to a country where they feared persecution, and granted refugee status or asylum. The former and transitional governments continued to provide temporary protection to individuals who may not qualify as refugees under the 1951 convention and the 1967 protocol and during the year provided it to approximately 400 persons. The former and transitional governments cooperated with the office of the UNHCR and other humanitarian organizations in assisting refugees or asylum seekers. The former and transitional governments also accepted the UNHCR's registration of approximately 600 asylum seekers, mostly from Sierra Leone and Liberia. The law provides citizens with the right to change their government; however, this right was abridged during the year due to the overthrow of former president Taya in a bloodless coup. The former government circumscribed citizens' rights to change their government in practice. The transitional government, following "National Consultations" with over 500 political parties, NGO's, and public figures, released a timeline for a transition to democracy calling for presidential and parliamentary elections no later than March 2007. The timeline was agreed to by the European Union (EU) during formal talks in Brussels in November. At the end of these talks the EU also declared that it was "prepared to give its support to the implementation of" 24 commitments made by the transitional government, including guaranteeing all Mauritanian citizens the full exercise of their basic rights and freedoms, including the freedoms of speech, movement, and assembly. The transitional government also requested and received assurances for UN elections preparation assistance. In December the UN dispatched an advance elections team to the country. The UN imposed two requirements for electoral assistance: having an independent electoral commission and revised voter' lists. The transitional government complied with both demands. The UN advance team was providing technical advice on budget, organizing the new registration of voters, and assisting on other matters at year's end. Elections and Political Participation In the former government, although civilians occupied all ministerial-level positions, some members of the Military Council that ruled from 1984 to 1992, in addition to former President Taya, remained in positions of power within the executive branch, the National Assembly, the armed forces, and government-owned enterprises. Former President Taya won the 2003 elections with 67 percent of the vote amid reports of fraud, particularly in the south. The former government did not invite international and local diplomatic observers to observe the voting process, although it did permit one international organization to visit the country during the elections. The leading opposition candidate, Mohamed Haidallah, was arrested the day before the election, released, and rearrested the day after the election. Opposition candidates alleged that the former government conducted a fraudulent election but chose not to contest the election's results via available legal channels, reportedly because the leading opposition candidate's imprisonment immediately following the elections prevented him from taking any legal action. In 2004 and while in power during 2005, the former government arrested and tried 181 persons, mostly military officers, including Major Saleh Ould Hanenna, the leader of the "Knights of Change," for their involvement in three separate attempts to stage a coup to overthrow former president Taya. The trial resulted in lighter than expected sentences, with no persons sentenced to death. Many of the 181 were released by the former government during the year, after having their cases dismissed or having completed their sentences, and the final 32 were released by the transitional government following the declaration of a general amnesty in September. The former government reportedly harassed the sons of former president and opposition leader Mohamed Khouna Ould Haidallah on several occasions during the year, allegedly in connection with criminal activity On August 3, President Taya, who had ruled the country for 21 years, was deposed in a bloodless coup. Military and other security officers, led by the chief of the national police, Colonel Ely Ould Mohammed Fal, seized power while Taya was aboard. Colonel Fal established the ruling MCJD to run the country, and assumed the position of president of the MCJD. The MCJD dissolved the parliament, suspended parts of the constitution, adopted a constitutional charter allowing it to rule by decree, and appointed a transitional government to replace the Taya government. In October this transitional government (the MCJD and the council of ministers) held national consultations with over 500 political parties, NGO's, and public figures to debate the roadmap to democracy. Following the consultations, the transitional government released a timeline for a transition to democracy culminating in presidential elections in March 2007. Until August, when parliament was dissolved, three women held positions in the 81-seat National Assembly and 6 women in the 56-seat Senate. Three of the 15 members of the Executive Bureau of the former ruling PRDS party were women, and a woman heads the Union for Democracy and Progress party, a part of the former ruling coalition. Women occupied some senior former and transitional government positions: three cabinet-level posts including the minister of labor, two secretaries of state, the deputy director of the president's cabinet, and the president's minister-counselor. Women were well represented in the Secretariat of Women's Affairs, including a number from minority ethnic groups. Three of the 26 transitional government ministers are women and 2 of the 15 members of the National Independent Electoral Commission are women. Prior to the dissolution, the 56-member Senate had 3 Black Moors, 4 Halpulaars, 3 Soninkes, and the remaining 46 were of either White Moor or mixed White Moor/Black Moor heritage. The 81-member National Assembly had 9 Black Moors, 8 Halpulaars, 2 Soninkes, and 2 Wolof. Minorities such as the Black Moors, Halpulaars, Soninkes, and Wolofs were underrepresented in senior former and transitional government positions. Sghair Ould M'Bareck, however, was appointed as the country's first Black Moor prime minister in 2003, and the first Black Moor woman to occupy a ministerial level position was appointed minister of public records in 2003. Of the former government's 22 ministerial posts, 2 incumbents were Black Moor, 2 were Halpulaar, and 1 was Soninke; the remaining 14 were of either White Moor or mixed White Moor/Black Moor ethnicity (see section 5). The full 26-member cabinet, including secretaries of state, had 2 Black Moors, 3 Halpulaars, and 1 Soninke. Of the transitional government's 26 ministerial posts, 2 incumbents were Haratines, 3 were Pular, and 1 was Soninke. Of the seventeen members of the MCJD, there was 1 Haratine, 1 Pular, and 1 Soninke. Government Corruption and Transparency There was a widespread public perception of corruption in all levels of the former government, and a widespread belief that corruption and poor fiscal management contributed to the country's significant fiscal problems. The former government did not conduct any audits during the year. The transitional government continued to investigate corruption and fiscal mismanagement by the former government at year's end. The public perception of the transitional government's level of corruption could not be determined by year's end; however, it was widely believed that some corruption continued as the transitional government inherited from the former government a patronage system that fostered corruption. There were no laws permitting public access to government information, by either citizens or noncitizens. Requests for such access were routinely refused, usually without a specific reason being given. Several domestic and international human rights groups generally operated without government restriction, investigating and publishing their findings on human rights cases. Former and transitional government officials were somewhat cooperative and responsive to their views. The former government officially recognized three NGOs but refused recognition of several others and denied them the ability to deal with government officials, as well as the opportunity to request government assistance. There were four NGOs concerned with overall human rights issues. The oldest was the Mauritanian League for Human Rights, a government-recognized body with a strong track record of defending former government policies. In May the former government recognized the Mauritanian Association for Human Rights, the International Study and Research Group on Democracy and Economic and Social Development in Africa, and anti-slavery NGO SOS-Esclaves. SOS Esclaves' president, Boubacar Ould Messaoud, had been a longstanding and vocal critic of the former government, and the recognition of this and the other two NGOs was seen as a significant positive step by the former government. In August 2004 the UN-based Committee for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination reported that slavery, FGM, and racial discrimination remained ongoing problems in the country. 5. Discrimination, Societal Abuses, and Trafficking in Persons The law provides for equality for all citizens regardless of race, national origin, sex, or social status, and prohibits racial or ethnic propaganda; however, the former and transitional governments often favored individuals on the basis of racial and tribal affiliation, social status, and political ties. Societal discrimination against women, trafficking in persons, and racial and ethnic discrimination were problems. Human rights monitors and female lawyers reported that domestic violence was rare, particularly among the Moor population. Abuse and domestic violence are illegal; however, the government did not always enforce the law effectively. Penalties included imprisonment, but convictions were very rare. The police and judiciary occasionally intervened in domestic abuse cases, but women in traditional society rarely sought legal redress, relying instead upon family and ethnic group members to resolve domestic disputes. According to NGO reporting, the incidence of unreported rape was high. Rape, including spousal rape, is illegal; however, the government did not enforce the law effectively. Penalties included imprisonment, but convictions were very rare, and there were no known convictions under this law during the year. A 2000 study by a credible local NGO's found approximately 330 cases of rape in Nouakchott. Of the 330 cases, 140 had been reported as rape to medical staff. The remaining 190 had not been reported as rape, but the NGO concluded that the cases fit the medical profile for violent sexual assault. The study added that 46 percent of these 330 assaults were group assaults. There were also reports that female slaves were raped and abused during the year. For example, in April there were several international media reports that Sghaira Mint Tesh, a woman who claimed to have grown up as a slave in a rural area of the country, was frequently beaten, raped, and underfed by her master. Tesh had three children as a result of being raped. Tesh, who left with her children, stated she intended to bring charges against her former master and to pursue the release of her enslaved mother and siblings but had not done so by year's end. In November the SOS Esclaves reported the cases of Khadama (approximately 14-years old) and her older niece M'barka (approximately 17). According to SOS Esclaves' report, Khadama was given by her mother at a young age to a family that agreed to continue her education and pay her for cleaning work. The family reportedly did neither, instead forcing her to work as a house servant. M'barka was also forced into domestic servitude. Khadama subsequently escaped. M'barka claimed the head of household's nephew raped her, and she became pregnant. M'barka was charged with sexual misconduct for being pregnant and unwed; no action was taken against the nephew. The State Prosecutor's Office investigated the claim of slavery and determined that the girls were not slaves. The trial had not begun by year's end. Although prostitution is illegal NGO reporting indicated that it was a growing problem in some urban areas, particularly among Afro-Mauritanian and Black Moor women. Traditional forms of mistreatment of women continued, mostly in isolated rural communities, but these practices appeared to be declining. One form of such mistreatment was the forced feeding of adolescent girls (gavage) prior to marriage, which was practiced only among White Moor tribal groups. While there was no law prohibiting gavage, the former and transitional governments made it a policy to end the practice. Reports during the year indicated that very few women currently subjected to gavage. FGM was practiced among all ethnic groups, most often on young girls, often on the seventh day after birth and almost always before the age of six months. According to the most recent internationally sponsored study in 2001, three-fourths of all women between the ages of 15 and 49 had been subjected to FGM. Local experts agreed that the least severe form of excision was practiced and not infibulation, the most severe form. The practice of FGM has decreased in the modern urban sector. There is no law explicitly prohibiting FGM; however, there is a law protecting children, which "prohibits acts that could harm children," and some legal scholars believe this can be interpreted to outlaw FGM; however, it had not yet been so used by year's end. The former and transitional governments and international NGOs continued to coordinate anti-FGM efforts. These efforts focused on eradicating the practice in hospitals, discouraging midwives from practicing FGM, and educating populations. The High Islamic Council of Mauritania, the Islamic Scholar Association, and the National Forum for Women's Rights continued to emphasize the serious health risks of FGM and that FGM was not a religious requirement. The former government conducted intensive media and educational campaigns against FGM during the year. Government hospitals and licensed medical practitioners were barred from performing FGM, and several government agencies worked to prevent others from carrying on this practice. According to several women's rights experts, the campaign against FGM appeared to be changing attitudes towards the practice; however, there were reports during the year that midwives performed FGM in local hospitals in violation of the former government's ban. Women have legal rights to property and child custody, and, among the more modern and urbanized population, these rights were recognized. By local tradition, a woman's first marriage requires parental consent. In accordance with Shari'a as applied in the country, marriage and divorce do not require the woman's consent, polygyny is allowed, and a woman does not have the right to refuse her husband's wish to marry additional wives. In practice, polygyny was very rare among Moors but was common among other ethnic groups. It was common in Moor society for a woman to obtain at the time of marriage a contractual agreement that stipulated that her husband must agree to end their marriage if he chose an additional wife. Arranged marriages also were increasingly rare, particularly among the Moor population. Women frequently initiated the termination of a marriage, which most often was done by repudiation of husband or wife rather than divorce. The reported rate of divorce among Moors remained 37 percent, with a remarriage rate of 72.5 percent. In July 2004 the National Assembly voted against a proposal to provide women the same rights for a divorce that are available to men. Women still faced legal discrimination. The testimony of two women was necessary to equal that of one man. The courts grant only half the amount of an indemnity to the family of a woman who has been killed that they award for a man's death. Formulas applied to property distribution varied widely from case to case. In addition the validity of and right to establish prenuptial agreements was not always respected. The Personal Status Code provides a framework for the consistent application of secular law and Shari'a-based family law, but the code has yet to be implemented. Women did not face legal discrimination in areas not addressed specifically by Shari'a. The law provides that men and women should receive equal pay for equal work. While not applied universally in practice, the two largest employers, the civil service and the state mining company, observed this law. In the modern wage sector, women also received family benefits, including three months of maternity leave. The former and transitional governments sought to open new employment opportunities for women in areas that were traditionally filled by men, such as health care, communications, police, and customs services. Women became more involved in the fishing industry and established several women's fishing cooperatives. The Secretariat for Women's Affairs worked with many NGOs and cooperatives to improve the status of women. The former and transitional governments, women's groups, and national and international NGOs organized meetings, seminars, and workshops throughout the year to publicize women's rights. The law makes special provision for the protection of children's welfare, and there were government programs to care for abandoned children; however, inadequate funding hampered these programs. Education continued to receive the largest share of the national budget at 19 percent. The former and transitional governments relied on foreign donors in such areas as child immunization. Attendance was required at school for six years, but full implementation of universal primary education was not scheduled to be completed until at least 2007, primarily because of lack of financial resources needed to provide educational facilities and teachers throughout the country, especially in remote areas. The 2002-03 official attendance rate was steady at 92 percent. Education was free through university level. Classes were fully integrated, including boys and girls from all social and ethnic groups. Children of slave families were allowed to attend school. There were no legal restrictions on the education of girls. An estimated 90 percent of school-age girls attended elementary school in 1998 and 1999 compared with 88 percent of boys. At the secondary level, female students constituted 44 percent of those enrolled. Despite these increases, enrollment in the southern and eastern parts of the country remained at a lower level. During the 2002-03 academic year female students made up 21.5 percent of university enrollment, up slightly from 21.2 percent in 2001-02. Female technical student enrollment rose to 31.1 percent in 2002-03 from 30.5 percent in 2001-02. The official literacy rate for women remained at 32 percent, compared with 52 percent for men. Almost all children, regardless of sex or ethnic group, attended Koranic school between the ages of five and seven and gained at least rudimentary skills in reading and writing Arabic. FGM was commonly performed on young girls (see section 5, Women). Trafficking in children occurred (see section 5, Trafficking). Child labor was a problem, particularly in the informal sector (see section 6.d.). Local NGOs estimated that there were up to 400 street children, largely as a result of poverty and of the urbanization of formerly nomadic families. The former government implemented a program to assist families with street children and to encourage their school attendance. Trafficking in Persons The law prohibits all forms of trafficking in persons; however, there were reports that persons were trafficked to, from, and within the country. The former and transitional governments did not prosecute or sentence anyone under this law during the year. The Ministry of Justice and the Commissariat for Human Rights, Poverty Alleviation, and Integration were responsible for dealing with trafficking The country was a source and destination for men, women, and children trafficked for the purpose of forced labor. Multiple NGO reports suggested that forced labor took several forms (see section 6.c.). Slavery-related practices, and possibly slavery itself, persisted in isolated areas of the country where a barter economy still prevailed. Several reports suggested that young girls from remote regions, and possibly from western Mali, worked as unpaid housemaids in some wealthy urban homes. An unknown number of young boys (talibes), nearly all from Pulaar tribes, begged in the streets as part of a "work-study" arrangement with some "marabouts," or religious teachers, for receiving religious instruction. There were unconfirmed reports that a small number of marabouts forced their Talibes to beg for over 12 hours a day and provided them with insufficient food and shelter. There were no reports that former or transitional governments officials participated in, facilitated, or condoned trafficking. There was no government assistance or protection services for trafficking victims, but one NGO provided limited assistance to Talibes. The former and transitional governments took measures to improve border security to combat trafficking in persons. Although no traffickers were apprehended, these measures resulted in arrests for alien smuggling. Persons with Disabilities The law prohibits discrimination against persons with disabilities in education, employment, or the provision of other state services, and there were no reports of former or transitional governments or societal discrimination against persons with disabilities. Neither government mandated preference in employment or education or public accessibility for persons with disabilities although they did provide some rehabilitation and other assistance for such persons. NGOs have become increasingly active in raising public awareness of issues affecting persons with disabilities. The school for the deaf and the blind in Nouakchott operated 10 classrooms and enrolled 127 students during the year, up from 67 students in 2004. The school lacked sufficient trained staff, having only two permanent and three part-time teachers. National/Racial/Ethnic Minorities Racial and ethnic minorities faced societal discrimination. Racial and cultural tension and discrimination arose from the geographic and cultural divides between Moor and Black African. The Moors were divided among numerous ethno-linguistic tribal and clan groups and further distinguished racially as either White Moor or Black Moor, although it often was difficult to distinguish between the two by skin color. White Moor tribes and clans, many of whom were dark-skinned after centuries of intermarriage with Berbers and sub-Saharan African groups, dominated positions in government and business. The Black Moor subgroup remained politically and economically weaker than the White Moor subgroup. Concentrated in the south, the Halpulaar (the largest non-Moor group), the Wolof, and the Soninke ethnic groups were underrepresented in the military and security sectors. The constitution designates Arabic as the official language and Arabic, Pulaar, Soninke, and Wolof as the country's national languages; however, successive governments – both civil and military – have pursued various policies of "Arabization" in the schools and in the workplace. Ethnic rivalry significantly contributed to political divisions and tensions. Some political parties tended to have readily identifiable ethnic bases, although political coalitions among them were increasingly important. Black Moors and Afro-Mauritanians are also underrepresented in mid to high-level public and private sector jobs. Other Societal Abuses and Discrimination There was no evidence of either societal violence or systematic former or transitional governments' discrimination directed at practicing homosexuals. Although Shari'a outlaws homosexuality under certain conditions, secular laws did not. The former and transitional governments did not arrest or prosecute any homosexuals during the year. There was no evidence of systematic discrimination by either society or government against persons with HIV/AIDS; however, taboos and beliefs associated with the disease caused victims in some areas to face isolation or exclusion. 6. Worker Rights a. The Right of Association The law provides for freedom of association and the right of citizens to join any labor organization, and workers exercised this right in practice. All workers except members of the military and police were free to associate in and establish unions at the local and national levels. To be legally recognized, a union must have the authorization of the public prosecutor who can provisionally suspend a trade union at the request of the Ministry of the Interior if it believes that the union has not complied with the law. The government, however, has the power to decide whether to recognize a trade union (see section 6.b.). The majority of the labor force was in the informal sector, with most workers engaged in subsistence agriculture and animal husbandry; only 25 percent were employed in regularly paid positions. Nearly 90 percent of industrial and commercial workers, however,were unionized. Laws provide workers with protection against antiunion discrimination; however, the former government in particular did not generally enforce these laws. Employees or employers may bring labor disputes to three-person labor tribunals administered jointly by the ministries of justice and labor with the participation of union and employer representatives. b. The Right to Organize and Bargain Collectively The law provides that unions may organize workers freely without government or employer interference, and workers exercised this right in practice. General or sector agreements on wages, working conditions, and social and medical benefits were negotiated in tripartite discussion and formalized by government decree. Wages and other benefits could also be negotiated bilaterally between employer and union, and the results of such negotiations were filed with the Directorate of Labor. Although the directorate has the ability to change the negotiated settlement between labor and business, there were no known cases of such action during the year. There were no export processing zones. The law provides workers with the right to strike, and workers occasionally exercised this right during the year. On December 12, members of the Mauritanian Doctors' Union, began a 24-hour strike to protest against the arrest of Brahim Ould Hamad, a doctor who was accused of refusing to perform an autopsy on a man who had been shot. Strikes in the private sector must be preceded by submission of a non-conciliation or negotiation-breakdown report. Once a referral is made to arbitrate a dispute, the tripartite arbitration committee may automatically terminate any strike. Some unions believed the new code rendered strikes ineffective by requiring advance notification. Some trade union representatives stated that there was little social dialogue except in response to worker actions in a dispute. The government can dissolve a union for what it considered an "illegal" or "politically motivated" strike; however, no unions were disbanded during the year. The former government ratified an updated labor code in 2004 that included significant improvements in health-care entitlements, including the introduction of maternity leave; an improved paced-arbitration system; and a series of laws prohibiting forced labor in any form. c. Prohibition of Forced or Compulsory Labor The law prohibits forced or compulsory labor, including by children, but the law only applies to relations between employers and workers; there were credible reports such practices occurred (see section 5 and 6.d.). Slavery is illegal although there were still areas where the attitude of master and slave prevailed and slavery was practiced The updated labor code, which came into effect in July 2004, includes criminal penalties for human trafficking in all of its recognized forms and includes increased criminal penalties for contracting to benefit from forced labor and for exploiting forced labor as part of an organized criminal network. In May the International Labor Organization issued a report from their May 2004 country visit to investigate allegations of the persistence of forced labor. The report concluded that the country continued to face challenges in combating forced labor, particularly in the form of forced domestic servitude, but praised the former government's efforts to address the issue. The report cited laws passed in 2003 and 2004 that expanded the definition of forced labor and increased the penalties for those found guilty of profiting from it. The report also acknowledged the former government's efforts to raise public and judicial awareness concerning forced labor. The report made several recommendations, including allowing for an in-depth and independent investigation into forced labor, reinforcing the Ministry of Public Records and Labor, and giving labor inspectors greater resources and autonomy. Citizens continued to suffer from the country's heritage of slavery. Slavery has been officially abolished. The practice of chattel slavery was once a tradition. Numerous reports suggested that some members of the long-dominant White Moor community continued to expect or desire the servitude of Black Moors. The nature of these reports also suggested that such attitudes impeded the goal of eliminating all remnants of slavery and related practices, a goal to which the former and transitional governments and major opposition parties were committed. Slavery-related practices, and reports of slavery, persisted most strongly in those remote regions of the east and southeast where a barter economy existed, where education levels were generally low, and where a greater need existed for manual labor in work such as herding livestock and tending fields. A system of officially sanctioned slavery, in which government and society joined to force individuals to serve masters, did not exist. However, there continued to be reports that slavery in the form of forced and involuntary servitude persisted in some remote areas. SOS-Esclaves publicized several accounts of newly escaped slaves during the year. These reports strongly suggested that slavery and related practices persisted mainly among a few nomadic groups and small villages in remote rural regions. Voluntary servitude also persisted, with some former slaves and descendents of slaves continuing to work for former masters in exchange for some combination of money, lodging, food, or medical care. The reasons for the persistence of such practices varied widely among the different ethnic groups; however, a barter economy, poverty, and persistent drought provided few economic alternatives for many and left some former slaves and descendents of slaves vulnerable to exploitation by former masters. There were reports that some former slaves in some sedentary communities continued to work for their former masters or others without remuneration to retain access to land they traditionally farmed. Although the law provides for distribution of land to the landless, including to former slaves, this law has been enforced in only a few cases. Deeply embedded psychological and tribal bonds also made it difficult for many individuals who had generations of forebears who were slaves to break their bonds with former masters or their tribes. Some persons continued to link themselves to former masters because they believed their slave status had been religiously ordained and they feared religious sanction if that bond were broken. Adult females with children faced greater difficulties and could be compelled to remain in a condition of servitude. Unlike in the previous year, there were no reports of court cases relating slavery to issues of child custody and inheritance. Human rights NGOs stated that the absence of such cases was attributable to judges' strong preference for out-of-court arbitration to avoid entering slavery-based allegations in the official record. The Commissariat for Human Rights, Poverty Alleviation, and Integration focused on addressing the consequences of slavery. The former and transitional governments focused on education, literacy, and agrarian reform to remedy the economic consequences of slavery-related practices. When persons who were held against their will filed complaints with the government, their complaints were addressed only after considerable pressure and time. In November the transitional government conducted an investigation involving two alleged slaves (see section 5). d. Prohibition of Child Labor and Minimum Age for Employment The law provides that children cannot be employed before the age of 14 in the nonagricultural sector or under age 13 in the agricultural sector unless the minister of labor grants an exception due to local circumstances; however, child labor in some parts of the informal sector was common and a significant problem, particularly within poorer inner-city areas. The law states that employed children between the ages of 14 and 16 should receive 70 percent of the minimum wage and that those between the ages of 17 and 18 should receive 90 percent of the minimum wage. Young children in the countryside were commonly employed in herding, cultivation, fishing, and other significant labor in support of their families' activities. Young children in urban areas often drove donkey carts and delivered water and building materials. In keeping with longstanding tradition, many children served apprenticeships in small industries and in the informal sector. Reporting by some human-rights NGOs, including SOS-Esclaves, strongly suggested that domestic employment, often unpaid, of girls as young as seven in wealthier homes was a growing problem. There was no child labor in the modern industrial sector. There was a labor inspectorate with the authority to refer violations directly to the appropriate judicial authorities but the eight inspectors lacked the basic resources, such as transport and office equipment, needed to enforce existing child labor and other labor laws. e. Acceptable Conditions of Work The nationally mandated minimum monthly wage for adults was $78 (21 thousand ouguiya) but was not enforced, and in any case it did not provide a decent standard of living for a worker and family. The standard, legal, nonagricultural workweek could not exceed either 40 hours or 6 days without overtime compensation, which was paid at rates that were graduated according to the number of supplemental hours worked. Domestic workers and certain other categories could work 56 hours per week. Employees must be given at least one 24-hour period of rest per week. The Labor Directorate of the Ministry of Labor is responsible for enforcement of the labor laws, but in practice inadequate funding limited the effectiveness of the Directorate's enforcement. The government set health and safety standards, and the Ministry of Labor was responsible for enforcing these standards, but did so inconsistently, due to inadequate funding. In principle workers could remove themselves from hazardous conditions without risking loss of employment, but in practice they could not. Search Refworld	http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?page=topic&tocid=4565c22544&toid=4565c25f551&publisher=&type=&coi=MRT&docid=4418218812&skip=0	<urn:uuid:ca9a13d9-a2da-4ff1-9d68-5f089269bb8f>	en	0.97563	0.020805
Monday Oct 13, 2008 Evolution of RAS in the Sun SPARC T5440 server Reliability, Availability, and Serviceability (RAS) in the Sun SPARC Enterprise T5440 builds upon the solid foundations created for the Sun SPARC Enterprise T5140, T5240, and Sun Fire X4600 M2 servers. The large number of CPU cores available in the T5440 needs large amounts of I/O capability to balance the design. The physical design of the X4600 M2 servers was a natural candidate for the new design – modular CPU and memory cards along with plenty of slots for I/O expansion. We've also seen good field reliability from the X4600 M2 servers and their components. The T5440 is a excellent example of how leveraging the best parts of these other designs has resulted in a very reliable and serviceable system. The trade-offs required for scaling from a single board design to a larger, multiple board design always impact reliability of the server. Additional connectors and other parts also contribute to increased failure rates, or lower reliability. On the other hand, the ability to replace a major component without replacing a whole motherboard increases serviceability – and lowers operating costs. The additional parts which enable the system to scale also have an impact on performance, as some of my colleagues have noted. When comparing systems on a single aspect of the RAS and performance spectrum, you can miss important design characteristics, or worse, misunderstand how the trade-offs impact the overall suitability of a system. To get a better insight on how to apply highly scalable systems to a complex task prefer to do a performability analysis. The T5440 has almost exactly twice the performance capabilities of the T5220. If you have a workload which previously required four T5220s with a spare (for availability), then you should be able to host that workload on only two T5440s, and a spare. Using benchmarks for sizing is the best way to compare, and we can generally see that a T5440 is six times more capable than a Sun Fire V490 server. This will complete a comparable performance sizing. On the RAS side, a single T5440 is more reliable than two T5220s, so there is a reliability gain. But for a performability analysis, that is contrasted with the fewer numbers of T5440. For example, if the workload requires 4 servers and we add a spare, then the system is considered performant when 4 of 5 servers are available. As we consolidate onto fewer servers, the model changes accordingly: for 2 servers and a spare, the system is performant when 2 of 3 servers are available. The reliability gain of using fewer servers can be readily seen in the number of yearly service calls expected. Fewer servers tends to mean fewer service calls. The math behind this can become complicated for large clusters and is arguably counter-intuitive at times. Fortuntately, our RAS modeling tools can handle very complicated systems relatively easily. We build availability models for all of our systems and use the same service parameters to permit easy comparisons. For example, we would model all systems with 8 hour service response time. The models are then compared, thusly Yearly Services Sun SPARC Enterprise 5440 server 2 + 1 Sun SPARC Enterprise 5240 server 4 + 1 Sun SPARC Enterprise 5140 server 4 + 1 Sun Fire V490 server 12 + 1 In these results, you can see that T5440 clearly wins the number of units and yearly services. Both of these metrics impact total cost of ownership (TCO) as the complexity of an environment is generally attributed to the number of OS instances – fewer servers generally means fewer OS instances. Fewer service calls means fewer problems that require physical human interactions. You can also see that the performability of the T5x40 systems are very similar. Any of these systems will be much better than a system of V490 servers. More information on the RAS features these servers can be found in the white paper we wrote, Maximizing IT Service Uptime by Utilizing Dependable Sun SPARC Enterprise T5140, T5240, and T5440 Servers. Ok, I'll admit that someone else wrote the title... Tuesday Sep 02, 2008 Sample RAIDoptimizer output We often get asked, "what is the best configuration for lots of disks" on the ZFS-discuss forum. There is no one answer to this question because you are really trading-off performance, RAS, and space. For a handful of disks, the answer is usually easy to figure out in your head. For a large number of disks, like the 48 disks found on a Sun Fire X4540 server, there are too many permutations to keep straight. If you review a number of my blogs on this subject, you will see that we can model the various aspects of these design trade-offs and compare. A few years ago, I wrote a tool called RAIDoptimizer, which will do the math for you for all of the possible permutations. I used the output of this tool to build many of the graphs you see in my blogs. Today, I'm making available a spreadsheet with a sample run of the permutations of a 48-disk system using reasonable modeling defaults. In this run, there are 339 possible permutations for ZFS. The models described in my previous blogs are used to calculate the values. The default values used are not representative of a specific disk, and merely represent ballpark, default values. The exact numbers are not as important as the relationships exposed for when you look at different configurations. Obviously, the tool allows us to change the disk parameters, which are usually available from disk data sheets. But this will get you into the ballpark, and is a suitable starting point for making some trade-off decisions. For your convenience, I turned on the data filters for the columns so that you can easily filter the results. Many people also sort on the various columns. StarOffice or OpenOffice will let you manipulate the data until the cows come home. Enjoy. Wednesday Aug 20, 2008 Dependability Benchmarking for Computer Systems Over the past few years, a number of people have been working to develop benchmarks for dependability of computer systems. After all, why should the performance guys have all of the fun? We've collected a number of papers on the subject in a new book, Dependability Benchmarking for Computer Systems, available from the IEEE Computer Society Press and Wiley. The table of contents includes: 1. The Autonomic Computing Benchmark 2. Analytical Reliability, Availability, and Serviceability Benchmarks 3. System Recovery Benchmarks 4. Dependability Benchmarking Using Environmental Test Tools 5. Dependability Benchmark for OLTP Systems 6. Dependability Benchmarking of Web Servers 7. Dependability Benchmark of Automotive Engine Control Systems 8. Toward Evaluating the Dependability of Anomaly Detectors 9. Vajra: Evaluating Byzantine-Fault-Tolerant Distributed Systems 10. User-Relevant Software Reliability Benchmarking 11. Interface Robustness Testing: Experience and Lessons Learned from the Ballista Project 12. Windows and Linux Robustness Benchmarks with Respect to Application Erroneous Behavior 13. DeBERT: Dependability Benchmarking of Embedded Real-Time Off-the-Shelf Components for Space Applications 14. Benchmarking the Impact of Faulty Drivers: Application to the Linux Kernel 15. Benchmarking the Operating System against Faults Impacting Operating System Functions 16. Neutron Soft Error Rate Characterization of Microprocessors Wow, you can see that there has been a lot of work, by a lot of people to measure system dependability and improve system designs. The work described in Chapter 2, Analytical Reliability, Availability, and Serviceability Benchmarks, can be seen as we are beginning to publish these benchmark results in various product white papers: Performance benchmarks have proven useful in driving innovation in the computer industry, and I think dependability benchmarks can do likewise. If you feel that these benchmarks are valuable, then please drop me a note, or better yet, ask your computer vendors for some benchmark results. I'd like to thank all of the contributors to the book, the IEEE, and Wiley. Karama Kanoun and Lisa Spainhower worked tirelessly to get all of the works compiled (herding the cats) and interfaced with the publisher, great job! Ira Pramanick, Jim Mauro, William Bryson, and Dong Tang collaborated with me on Chapters 2 & 3, thanks team! Thursday Jun 26, 2008 Awesome disk AFR! Or, is it... I was hanging out in the ZFS chat room when someone said they were using a new Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 SATA 3Gb/s 1-TB Hard Drive. A quick glance at the technical specs revealed a reliability claim of 0.34% Annualized Failure Rate (AFR). Holy smokes! This is well beyond what we typically expect from disks. Doubling the reliability would really make my day. My feet started doing a happy dance. So I downloaded the product manual to get all of the gritty details. It looks alot like most of the other large, 3.5" SATA drive specs out there, so far so good. I get to the Reliability Section (section 2.11, page 18) to look for more nuggets. Immediately, the following raised red flags with me and my happy feet stubbed a toe. The product shall achieve an Annualized Failure Rate (AFR) of 0.34% (MTBF of 0.7 million hours) when operated in an environment of ambient air temperatures of 25°C. Operation at temperatures outside the specifications in Section 2.8 may increase the product AFR (decrease MTBF). AFR and MTBF are population statistics that are not relevant to individual units. AFR and MTBF specifications are based on the following assumptions for desktop personal computer environments: • 2400 power-on-hours per year. Argv! OK, here's what happened. When we design enterprise systems, we use AFR with a 24x7x365 hour year (8760 operation hours/year). A 0.34% AFR using a 8760 hour year is equivalent to an MTBF of 2.5 million hours (really good for a disk). But the disk is spec'ed at 0.7 million hours, which, in my mind is an AFR of 1.25%, or about half as reliable as enterprise disks. The way they get to the notion that an AFR of 0.34% equates to an MTBF of 0.7 million hours is by changing the definition of operation to 2,400 hours per year (300 8-hour days). The math looks like this: 24x7x365 operation = 8760 hours/year (also called power-on-hours, POH) AFR = 100% \* (POH / MTBF) For an MTBF of 700,000 hours, AFR = 100% \* (8760 / 700,000) = 1.25% or, as Seagate specifies for this disk: AFR = 100% \* (2400 / 700,000) = 0.34% The RAS community has better luck explaining failure rates using AFR rather than MTBF. With AFR you can expect the failures to be a percentage of the population per year. The math is simple and intuitive. MTBF is not very intuitive and causes all sorts of misconceptions. The lesson here is that AFR can mean different things to different people and can be part of the marketing games people play. For a desktop environment, a large population might see 0.34% AFR with this product (and be happy). You just need to know the details when you try to compare with the enterprise environments. Unrecoverable Error on Read (UER) rate is 1e-14 errors/bits read, which is a bit of a disappointment, but consistent with consumer disks. Enterprise disks usually claim 1e-15 errors/bits read, by comparison. This worries me as the disks are getting bigger because of what it implies. The product manual says that there is guaranteed to be at least 1,953,525,168 512 byte sectors available. Total bits = 1,953,525,168 sectors/disk \* 512 bytes/sector \* 8 bits/byte= 8e12 bits/disk If the UER is 1e-14 errors/bits read then you can expect an unrecoverable read once every 12.5 times you read the entire disk. Not a very pleasant thought, even if you are using a file system which can detect such errors, like ZFS. Fortunately, field failure data tends to see a better UER than the manufacturers claim. If you are worried about this sort of thing, I'll recommend using ZFS. All-in-all, this looks like a nice disk for desktop use. But you should know that in enterprise environments we expect much better reliability specifications. Wednesday Apr 09, 2008 RAS in the T5140 and T5240 Today, Sun introduced two new CMT servers, the Sun SPARC Enterprise T5140 and T5240 servers. I'm really excited about this next stage of server development. Not only have we effectively doubled the performance capacity of the system, we did so without significantly decreasing the reliability. When we try to predict reliability of products which are being designed, we make those predictions based on previous generation systems. At Sun, we make these predictions at the component level. Over the years we have collected detailed failure rate data for a large variety of electronic components as used in the environments often found at our customer sites. We use these component failure rates to determine the failure rate of collections of components. For example, a motherboard may have more than 2,000 components: capacitors, resistors, integrated circuits, etc. The key to improving motherboard reliability is, quite simply, to reduce the number of components. There is some practical limit, though, because we could remove many of the capacitors, but that would compromise signal integrity and performance -- not a good trade-off. The big difference in the open source UltraSPARC T2 and UltraSPARC T2plus processors is the high level of integration onto the chip. They really are systems on a chip, which means that we need very few additional components to complete a server design. Fewer components means better reliability, a win-win situation. On average, the T5140 and T5240 only add about 12% more components over the T5120 and T5220 designs. But considering that you get two or four times as many disks, twice as many DIMM slots, and twice the computing power, this is a very reasonable trade-off. Let's take a look at the system block diagram to see where all of the major components live. You will notice that the two PCI-e switches are peers and not cascaded. This allows good flexibility and fault isolation. Compared to the cascaded switches in the T5120 and T5220 servers, this is a simpler design. Simple is good for RAS. You will also notice that we use the same LSI1068E SAS/SATA controller with onboard RAID. The T5140 is limited to 4 disk bays, but the T5240 can accommodate 16 disk bays. This gives plenty of disk targets for implementing a number of different RAID schemes. I recommend at least some redundancy, dual parity if possible. Some people have commented that the Neptune Ethernet chip, which provides dual-10Gb Ethernet or quad-1Gb Ethernet interfaces is a single point of failure. There is also one quad GbE PHY chip. The reason the Neptune is there to begin with is because when we implemented the coherency links in the UltraSPARC T2plus processor we had to sacrifice the builtin Neptune interface which is available in the UltraSPARC T2 processor. Moore's Law assures us that this is a somewhat temporary condition and soon we'll be able to cram even more transistors onto a chip. This is a case where high integration is apparent in the packaging. Even though all four GbE ports connect to a single package, the electronics inside the package are still isolated. In other words, we don't consider the PHY to be a single point of failure because the failure modes do not cross the isolation boundaries. Of course, if your Ethernet gets struck by lightning, there may be a lot of damage to the server, so there is always the possibility that a single event will create massive damage. But for the more common cabling problems, the system offers suitable isolation. If you are really paranoid about this, then you can purchase a PCI-e card version of the Neptune and put it in PCI-e slot 1, 2, or 3 to ensure that it uses the other PCI-e switch. The ILOM service processor is the same as we use in most of our other small servers and has been a very reliable part of our systems. It is connected to the rest of the system through a FPGA which manages all of the service bus connections. This allows the service processor to be the serviceability interface for the entire server. The server also uses ECC FB-DIMMs with Extended ECC, which is another common theme in Sun servers. We have recently been studying the affects of Solaris Fault Management Architecture and Extended ECC on systems in the field and I am happy to report that this combination provides much better system resiliency than possible through the individual features. In RAS, the whole can be much better than the sum of the parts. For more information on the RAS features of the new T5140 and T5240 servers, see the white paper, Maximizing IT Service Uptime by Utilizing Dependable Sun SPARC Enterprise T5140 and T5240 Servers. The whitepaper has results of our RAS benchmarks as well as some performability calculations. Wednesday Feb 20, 2008 Big Clusters and Deferred Repair When we build large clusters, such as high performance clusters or any cluster with a large number of computing nodes, we begin to look in detail at the repair models for the system. You are probably aware of the need to study power usage, air conditioning, weight, system management, networking, and cost for such systems. So you are also aware of how multiplying the environmental needs of one computing node times the number of nodes can become a large number. This can be very intuitive for most folks. But availability isn't quite so intuitive. Deferred repair models can also affect the intuition of the design. So, I thought that a picture would help show how we analyze the RAS characteristics of such systems and why we always look to deferred repair models in their design. To begin, we have to make some assumptions: • The availability of the whole is not interesting. The service provided by a big cluster is not dependent on all parts being functional. Rather, we look at it like a swarm of bees. Each bee can be busy, and the whole swarm can contribute towards making honey, but the loss of a few bees (perhaps due to a hungry bee eater) doesn't cause the whole honey producing process to stop. Sure, there may be some components of the system which are more critical than others, like the queen bee, but work can still proceed forward even if some of these systems are temporarily unavailable (the swarm will create new queens, as needed). This is a very different view than looking at the availability of a file service, for example. • The performability will might be interesting. How many dead bees can we have before the honey production falls below our desired level? But for very, very large clusters, the performability will be generally good, so a traditional performability analysis is also not very interesting. It is more likely that a performability analysis of the critical components, such as networking and storage, will be interesting. But the performability of thousands of compute nodes will be less interesting. • Common root cause failures are not considered. If a node fails, the root cause of the failure is not common to other nodes. A good example of a common root cause failure is loss of power -- if we lose power to the cluster, all nodes will fail. Another example is software -- a software bug which causes the nodes to crash may be common to all nodes. • What we will model is a collection of independent nodes, each with their own, independent failure causes. Or just think about bees. For a large number of compute nodes, even using modern, reliable designs, we know that the probability of all nodes being up at the same time is quite small. This is obvious if we look at the simple availability equation: Availability = MTBF / (MTBF + MTTR) where, MTBF (mean time between failure) is MTBF[compute node]/N[nodes] and, MTTR (mean time to repair) is > 0 The killer here is N. As N becomes large (thousands) and MTTR is dependent on people, then the availability becomes quite small. The time required to repair a machine is included in the MTTR. So as N becomes large, there is more repair work to be done. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not spend my life in constant repair mode, so we need to look at the problem from a different angle. If we make MTTR large, then the availability will drop to near zero. But if we have some spare compute nodes, then we might be able to maintain a specified service level. Or, some a practical perspective, we could ask the question, "how many spare compute nodes do I need to keep at least M compute nodes operational?" The next, related question is, "how often do we need to schedule service actions?" To solve this problem, we need a model. Before I dig into the model results, I want to digress for a moment and talk about Mean Time Between Service (MTBS) and Mean Time Between System Interruption (MTBSI). I've blogged in detail about these before, but to put there use in context here, we will actually use MTBSI and not MTBF for the model. Why? Because if a compute node has any sort of redundancy (ECC memory, mirrored disks, etc.) then the node may still work after a component has failed. But we want to model our repair schedule based on how often we need to fix nodes, so we need to look at how often things break for two cases. The models will show us those details, but I won't trouble you with them today. The figure below shows a proposed 2000+ node HPC cluster with two different deferred repair models. For one solution, we use a one week (168 hour) deferred repair time. For the other solution, we use a two week deferred repair time. I could show more options, but these two will be sufficient to provide the intuition for solving such mathematical problems. Deferred Repair Model Results We build a model showing the probability that some number of nodes will be down. The OK state is when all nodes are operational. It is very clear that the longer we wait to repair the nodes, the less probable it is that the cluster will be in the OK state. I would say, that that with a two week deferred maintenance model, there is nearly zero probability that all nodes will be operational. Looking at this another way, if you want all nodes to be available, you need to have a very, very fast repair time (MTTR approaching 0 time). Since fast MTTR is very expensive, accepting a deferred repair and using spares is usually a good cost trade-off. OK, so we're convinced that a deferred repair model is the way to go, so how many spare compute nodes do we need? A good way to ask that question is, "how may spares do I need to ensure that there is a 95% probability that I will have a minumum of M nodes available?" From the above graph, we would accumulate the probability until we reached the 95% threshold. Thus we see that for the one week deferred repair case, we need at least 8 spares and for the two week deferred repair case we need at least 12 spares. Now this is something we can work with. The model results will change based on the total number of compute nodes and their MTBSI. If you have more nodes, you'll need more spares. If you have more reliable or redundant nodes, you need fewer spares. If we know the reliability of the nodes and their redundancy characteristics, we have models which can tell you how many spares you need. This sort of analysis also lets you trade-off the redundancy characteristics of the nodes to see how that affects the system, too. For example, we could look at the affect of zero, one, or two disks (mirrored) per node on the service levels. I personally like the zero disk case, where the nodes boot from the network, and we can model such complex systems quite easily, too. This point should not be underestimated, as you add redundancy to increase the MTBSI, you also increase the MTBS, which impacts your service costs. The engineer's life is a life full of trade-offs. In conclusion, building clusters with lots of nodes (red shift designs) requires additional analysis beyond what we would normally use for critical systems with few nodes (blue shift designs). We often look at service costs using a deferred service interval and how that affects the overall system service level. We also look at the trade-offs between per-node redundancy and the overall system service level. With proper analysis, we can help determine the best performance and best cost for large, red shift systems. Tuesday Oct 16, 2007 Introduction to Performability Analysis Modern systems are continuing to evolve and become more tolerant to failures. For many systems today, a simple performance or availability analysis does not reveal how well a system will operate when in a degraded mode. A performability analysis can help answer these questions for complex systems. In this blog, I'll show one of the methods we use for performability analysis. We often begin with a small set of components for test and analysis. Traditional benchmarking or performance characterization is a good starting point. For this example, we will analyze a storage array. We begin with an understanding of the performance characteristics of our desired workload, which can vary widely for storage subsystems. In our case, we will create a performance workload which includes a mix of reads and writes, with a consistent iop size, and a desired performance metric of iops/second. Storage arrays tend to have many possible RAID configurations which will have different performance and data protection trade-offs, so we will pick a RAID configuration which we think will best suit our requirements. If it sounds like we're making a lot of choices early, it is because we are. We know that some choices are clearly bad, some are clearly good, and there are a whole bunch of choices in between. If we can't meet our design targets after the performability analysis, then we might have to go back to the beginning and start again - such is the life of a systems engineer. Once we have a reasonable starting point, we will setup a baseline benchmark to determine the best performance for a fully functional system. We will then use fault injection to measure the system performance characteristics under the various failure modes expected in the system. For most cases, we are concerned with hardware failures. Often the impact on the performance of a system under failure conditions is not constant. There may be a fault diagnosis and isolation phase, a degraded phase, and a repair phase. There may be several different system performance behaviors during these phases. The transient diagram below shows the performance measurements of a RAID array with dual redundant controllers configured in a fully redundant, active/active operating mode. We bring the system to a steady state and then inject a fault into one of the controllers. array fault transient analysis This analysis is interesting for several different reasons. We see that when the fault was injected, there was a short period where the array serviced no I/O operations. Once the fault was isolated, then a recovery phase was started during which the array was operating at approximately half of its peak performance. Once recovery was completed, the performance returned to normal, even though the system is in a degraded state. Next we repaired the fault. After the system reconfigured itself, performance returned to normal for the non-degraded system. You'll note that during the post-repair reconfiguration the array stopped servicing I/O operations and this outage was longer than the outage in the original fault. Sometimes, a trade-off is made such that the impact of the unscheduled fault is minimized at the expense of the repair activity. This is usually a good trade-off because the repair activity is usually a scheduled event, so we can limit the impact via procedures and planning. If you have ever waited for an fsck to finish when booting a system, then you've felt the impact of such decisions and understand why modern file systems have attempted to minimize the performance costs of fsck, or eliminated the need for fsck altogether. Modeling the system in this way means that we will consider both the unscheduled faults as well as the planned repair, though we usually make the simplifying assumption that there will be one repair action for each unscheduled fault. If this sort of characterization sounds tedious, well it is. But it is the best way for us to measure the performance of a subsystem under faulted conditions. Trying to measure the performance of a more complex system with multiple servers, switches, and arrays under a comprehensive set of fault conditions would be untenable. We do gain some reduction of the test matrix because we know that some components have no impact on performance when they fail. Next we build a RAScad model for the system. I usually use a heirarchial model built from components which hides much of the complexity from me, but for this simpler example, the Markov model looks like this: Markov model Where the states are explained by this table: Transition Rate No failures rate (=1/MTTR) 1 UIC_Dn 1 UIC is down UIC failure rate System is down Midplane failure rate 1 Ctlr_Dn 1 Controller is down Controller failure rate 1 PCU is down PCU failure rate 1 disk is under reconstruction Disk reconstruction rate 1 disk is under reconstruction, 1 spare disk available Disk failure rate No spare disk One parity group loses 1 disk, no spare available, no disk reconstruction Solving the Markov model will provide us with the average staying time per year in each of the states. Note that we must make some sort of assumptions about the service response time. We will usually use 4 hour service response time for enterprise-class operations. Is that assumption optimal? We don't always know, so that is another feature of a system I'll explore in a later blog. So now we have the performance for each state, and the average staying time per year. These are two variables, so lets graph them on an X-Y plot. To make it easier to compare different systems, we sort by the performance (in the Y-axis). We call the resulting graph a performability graph or P-Graph for short. Here is an example of a performability graph showing the results for three different RAID array configurations. simple performability graph I usually label availability targets across the top as an alternate X-axis label because many people are more comfortable with availability targets represented as "nines" than seconds or minutes. In order to show the typically small staying time, we use a log scale on the X-axis. The Y-axis shows the performance metric. I refer to the system's performability curve as a performability envelope because it represents the boundaries of performance and availability, where we can expect the actual use to fall below the curve for any interval. Suppose you have a requirement for an array that delivers 1,500 iops with "four-nines" availability. You can see from the performability graph that Product A and C can deliver 1,500 iops, Product C can deliver "four-nines" availability, but only Product A can deliver both 1,500 iops and "four-nines" availability. To help you understand the composition of the graph, I colored some of the states which have longer staying times. composite fault performability graph You can see that some of the failure states have little impact on performance, whereas others will have a significant impact on performance. For this array, when a power supply/battery unit fails, the write cache is placed in write through mode, which has a significant performance impact. Also, when a disk fails and is being reconstructed, the overall performance is impacted. Now we have a clearer picture of what performance we can expect from this array per year. This composition view is particularly useful for product engineers, but is less useful to systems engineers. For complex systems, there are many products, many failure modes, and many more trade-offs to consider. More on that later... Wednesday Oct 03, 2007 Adaptec webinar on disks and error handling Adaptec has put together a nice webinar called Nearline Data Drives and Error Handling. If you work with disks or are contemplating building your own home data server, I recommend that you take 22 minutes to review the webinar. As a systems vendor, we are often asked why we made certain design decisions to favor data over costs, and I think this webinar does a good job of showing how some of the complexity of systems design covers a large number of decision points. Here in the RAS Engineering group we tend to gravitate towards the best reliability and availability of systems, which still requires a staggering number of design trade-offs. Rest assured that we do our best to make these decisions with your data in mind. For the ZFSers in the world, this webinar also provides some insight into how RAID systems like ZFS are designed, and why end-to-end data protection is vitally important. Enjoy! And if you don't want your Starbuck's gift card, send it to me :-) Friday May 04, 2007 ZFS, copies, and data protection OpenSolaris build 61 (or later) is now available for download. ZFS has added a new feature that will improve data protection: redundant copies for data (aka ditto blocks for data). Previously, ZFS stored redundant copies of metadata. Now this feature is available for data, too. This represents a new feature which is unique to ZFS: you can set the data protection policy on a per-file system basis, beyond that offered by the underlying device or volume. For single-device systems, like my laptop with its single disk drive, this is very powerful. I can have a different data protection policy for the files that I really care about (my personal files) than the files that I really don't care about or that can be easily reloaded from the OS installation DVD. For systems with multiple disks assembled in a RAID configuration, the data protection is not quite so obvious. Let's explore this feature, look under the hood, and then analyze some possible configurations. Using Copies To change the numbers of data copies, set the copies property. For example, suppose I have a zpool named "zwimming." The default number of data copies is 1. But you can change that to 2 quite easily. # zfs set copies=2 zwimming The copies property works for all new writes, so I recommend that you set that policy when you create the file system or immediately after you create a zpool. You can verify the copies setting by looking at the properties. # zfs get copies zwimming zwimming copies 2 local ZFS will account for the space used. For example, suppose I create three new file systems and copy some data to them. You can then see that the space used reflects the number of copies. If you use quotas, then the copies will be charged against the quotas, too. # zfs create -o copies=1 zwimming/single # zfs create -o copies=2 zwimming/dual # zfs create -o copies=3 zwimming/triple # cp -rp /usr/share/man1 /zwimming/single # cp -rp /usr/share/man1 /zwimming/dual # cp -rp /usr/share/man1 /zwimming/triple # zfs list -r zwimming zwimming 48.2M 310M 33.5K /zwimming zwimming/dual 16.0M 310M 16.0M /zwimming/dual zwimming/single 8.09M 310M 8.09M /zwimming/single zwimming/triple 23.8M 310M 23.8M /zwimming/triple This makes sense. Each file system has one, two, or three copies of the data and will use correspondingly one, two, or three times as much space to store the data. Under the Covers ZFS will spread the ditto blocks across the vdev or vdevs to provide spatial diversity. Bill Moore has previously blogged about this, or you can see it in the code for yourself. From a RAS perspective, this is a good thing. We want to reduce the possibility that a single failure, such as a drive head impact with media, could disturb both copies of our data. If we have multiple disks, ZFS will try to spread the copies across multiple disks. This is different than mirroring, in subtle ways. The actual placement is ultimately based upon available space. Let's look at some simplified examples. First, for the default file system configuration settings on a single disk. Default, simple config Note that there are two copies of the metadata, by default. If we have two or more copies of the data, the number of metadata copies is three. ZFS, 2 copies Suppose you have a 2-disk stripe. In that case, ZFS will try to spread the copies across the disks. ZFS, 2 copies, 2 disks Since the copies are created above the zpool, a mirrored zpool will faithfully mirror the copies. ZFS, copies=2, mirrored Since the copies policy is set at the file system level, not the zpool level, a single zpool may contain multiple file systems, each with different policies. In other words, you could have data which is not copied allocated along with data that is copied. ZFS, mixed copies Using different policies for different file systems allows you to have different data protection policies, allows you to improve data protection, and offers many more permutations of configurations for you to weigh in your designs. RAS Modeling It is obvious that increasing the number of data copies will effectively reduce the amount of available space accordingly. But how will this affect reliability? To answer that question we use the MTTDL[2] model I previously described, with the following changes: First, we calculate the probability of unsuccessful reconstruction due to a UER for N disks of a given size (unit conversion omitted). The number of copies decreases this probability. This makes sense as we could use another copy of the data for reconstruction and to completely fail, we'd need to lose all copies: Precon_fail = ((N-1) \* size / UER)copies For single-disk failure protection: MTTDL[2] = MTBF / (N \* Precon_fail) For double-disk failure protection: MTTDL[2] = MTBF2/ (N \* (N-1) \* MTTR \* Precon_fail) Note that as the number of copies increases, Precon_fail approaches zero quickly. This will increase the MTTDL. We want higher MTTDL, so this is a good thing. OK, now that we can calculate available space and MTTDL, let's look at some configurations for 46 disks available on a Sun Fire X4500 (aka Thumper). We'll look at single parity schemes, to reduce the clutter, but double parity schemes will show the same, relative improvements. ZFS, X4500 single parity schemes with copies bigger view You can see that we are trading off space for MTTDL. You can also see that for raidz zpools, having more disks in the sets reduces the MTTDL. It gets more interesting to see that the 2-way mirror with copies=2 is very similar in space and MTTDL to the 5-disk raidz with copies=3. Hmm. Also, the 2-way mirror with copies=1 is similar in MTTDL to the 7-disk raidz with copies=2, though the mirror configurations allow more space. This information may be useful as you make trade-offs. Since the copies parameter is set per file system, you can still set the data protection policy for important data separately from unimportant data. This might be a good idea for some situations where you might have permanent originals (eg. CDs, DVDs) and want to apply a different data protection policy. In the future, once we have a better feel for the real performance considerations, we'll be able to add a performance component into the analysis. Single Device Revisited Now that we see how data protection is improved, let's revisit the single device case. I use the term device here because there is a significant change occurring in storage as we replace disk drives with solid state, non-volatile memory devices (eg. flash disks and future MRAM or PRAM devices). A large number of enterprise customers demand dual disk drives for mirroring root file systems in servers. However, there is also a growing demand for solid state boot devices, and we have some Sun servers with this option. Some believe that by 2009, the majority of laptops will also have solid state devices instead of disk drives. In the interim, there are also hybrid disk drives. What affect will these devices have on data retention? We know that if the entire device completely fails, then the data is most likely unrecoverable. In real life, these devices can suffer many failures which result in data loss, but which are not complete device failures. For disks, we see the most common failure is an unrecoverable read where data is lost from one or more sector (bar 1 in the graph below). For flash memories, there is an endurance issue where repeated writes to a cell may reduce the probability of reading the data correctly. If you only have one copy of the data, then the data is lost, never to be read correctly again. We captured disk error codes returned from a number of disk drives in the field. The Pareto chart below shows the relationship between the error codes. Bar 1 is the unrecoverable read which accounts for about 24% of the errors recorded. The violet bars show recoverable errors which did succeed. Examples of successfully recovered errors are: write error - recovered with block reallocation, read error - recovered by ECC using normal retries, etc. The recovered errors do not (immediately) indicate a data loss event, so they are largely transparent to applications. We worry more about the unrecoverable errors. Disk error Pareto chart Approximately 1/3 of the errors were unrecoverable. If such an error occurs in ZFS metadata, then ZFS will try to read alternate metadata copy and repair the metadata. If the data has multiple copies, then it is likely that we will not lose any data. This is a more detailed view of the storage device because we are not treating all failures as a full device failure. Both real and anecdotal evidence suggests that unrecoverable errors can occur while the device is still largely operational. ZFS has the ability to survive such errors without data loss. Very cool. Murphy's Law will ultimately catch up with you, though. In the case where ZFS cannot recover the data, ZFS will tell you which file is corrupted. You can then decide whether or not you should recover it from backups or source media. Another Single Device Now that I've got you to think of the single device as a single device, I'd like to extend the thought to RAID arrays. There is much confusion amongst people about whether ZFS should or should not be used with RAID arrays. If you search, you'll find comments and recommendations both for and against using hardware RAID for ZFS. The main argument is centered around the ability of ZFS to correct errors. If you have a single device backed by a RAID array with some sort of data protection, then previous versions of ZFS could not recover data which was lost. Hold it right there, fella! Do I mean that RAID arrays and the channel from the array to main memory can have errors? Yes, of course! We have seen cases where errors were introduced somewhere along the path between disk media to main memory where data was lost or corrupted. Prior to ZFS, these were silent errors and blissfully ignored. With ZFS, the checksum now detects these errors and tries to recover. If you don't believe me, then watch the ZFS forum on where we get reports like this about once a month or so. With ZFS copies, you can now recover from such errors without changing the RAID array configuration. If ZFS can correct a data error, it will attempt to do so. You now have a the option to improve your data protection even when using a single RAID LUN. And this is the same mechanism we can use for a single disk or flash drive: data copies. You can implement the copies on a per-file system basis and thus have different data protection policies even though the data is physically stored on a RAID LUN in a hardware RAID array. I really hope we can put to rest the "ZFS prefers JBOD" argument and just concentrate our efforts on implementing the best data protection policies for the requirements. ZFS with data copies is another tool in your toolbelt to improve your life, and the life of your data. Monday Apr 23, 2007 Mainframe inspired RAS features in new SPARC Enterprise Servers My colleague, Gary Combs, put together a podcast describing the new RAS features found in the Sun SPARC Enterprise Servers. The M4000, M5000, M8000, and M9000 servers have very advanced RAS features, which put them head and shoulders above the competition. Here is my list of favorites, in no particular order: 1. Memory mirroring. This is like RAID-1 for main memory. As I've said many times, there are 4 types of components which tend to break most often: disks, DIMMs (memory), fans, and power supplies. Memory mirroring brings the fully redundant reliability techniques often used for disks, fans, and power supplies to DIMMs. 2. Extended ECC for main memory. Full chip failures on a DIMM can be tolerated. 3. Instruction retry. The processor can detect faulty operation and retry instructions. This feature has been available on mainframes, and is now available for the general purpose computing markets. 4. Improved data path protection. Many improvements here, along the entire data path. ECC protection is provided for all of the on-processor memory. 5. Reduced part count from the older generation Sun Fire E25K. Better integration allows us to do more with fewer parts while simultaneously improving the error detection and correction capabilities of the subsystems. 6. Open-source Solaris Fault Management Architecture (FMA) integration. This allows systems administrators to see what faults the system has detected and the system will automatically heal itself. 7. Enhanced dynamic reconfiguration. Dynamic reconfiguration can be done at the processor, DIMM (bank), and PCI-E (pairs) level of grainularity. 8. Solaris Cluster support. Of course Solaris Cluster is supported including clustering between Solaris containers, dynamic system domains, or chassis. 9. Comprehensive service processor. The service processor monitors the health of the system and controls system operation and reconfiguration. This is the most advanced service processor we've developed. Another welcome feature is the ability to delegate responsibilities to different system administrators with restrictions so that they cannot control the entire chassis. This will be greatly appreciated in large organizations where multiple groups need computing resources. 10. Dual power grid. You can connect the power supplies to two different power grids. Many people do not have the luxury of access to two different power grids, but those who have been bitten by a grid outage will really appreciate this feature. Think of this as RAID-1 for your power source. I don't think you'll see anything revolutionary in my favorites list. This is due to the continuous improvements in the RAS technologies. The older Sun Fire servers were already very reliable, and it is hard to create a revolutionary change for mature technologies. We have goals to make every generation better, and we've made many advances with this new generation. If the RAS guys do their job right, you won't notice it - things will just keep working. « March 2014	https://blogs.oracle.com/relling/tags/ras	<urn:uuid:69df36ea-b82c-42ae-8369-761d6ef4347b>	en	0.92683	0.038429
CONTENT WARNING: Torture, abuse, implied rape, sexual situations, character death. This is not a nice fic. You have been warned. AUTHOR'S NOTES: This story was a response to Heliopolis Challenge #1,483, back in 2001. The requirements were: a) Jack becomes the Goa'uld in the Season Three episode 'Into The Fire', b) Hathor makes him kill Daniel and Sam, c) and it has to be S/J! Good Friend Lost --- prologue --- I have taken my host. He is not young, but he is strong. Healthy and knowledgeable in the ways of the Tau'ri. I chose well, indeed. His anger stirs within me, mingled with his fear and his loathing. He has gone from the one who hates to the one who is hated, and he knows what will be the fate of the two with whom he has come here. I will have to be careful of this host, for his mind, like his body, is strong. On the planet of the Tau'ri, he has been trained in the art of battle, and among those trainings are the ways to combat control of the mind. Even as I rise from the place where I was born, I feel his struggle within me and delight in the emotions he feeds me. Anger, fear, horror, pain. They are pleasure to my senses, a heady draught of power. Let him struggle against me if he feels the need. When he sees his friends' deaths, he will know despair in full measure. --- the man who was --- They flung us into a cell together. There's no privacy, but it's better than being separated and wondering what the hell is happening to the other. Sam is pacing restlessly – one of Jack's habits that has evidently worn off on her... Oh God, Jack... Jack is a goa'uld, now. I sit on the floor, trying to blot out the last sight of Jack: lying on the table as the goa'uld parasite enters his body through the neck. The sudden rigidity of the limbs, the horror on Jack's face and the slow, twisted struggle for dominance by host and parasite... Other memories flood in. Meeting Colonel Jack O'Neill for the first time. Watching as the dark eyes travel up and down my form: only a little shorter, but much slighter than he. Seeing his distaste for someone he considers a 'geek'. Looking across the room at him in Abydos after we defeated Ra. Seeing the dark eyes gleam with a measure of respect. I have been measured to Jack O'Neill's measure and not found wanting. Going forth to greet him in the temple as he and the others come through. Hearing the sardonic voice declare, "Hello, Daniel." Exasperation ringing in his voice, we argue about the importance of exploring the Broca Divide. I can see from his eyes that he finds my interest in all things archaeological bewildering, just as he finds Sam's fascination with all things scientific frustrating. The expression on his face as he left me behind on Apophis' ship. The grin on his face when I greeted him in the gateroom. The rough approval of his voice as he hugged me: "Spacemonkey." Pity is in his eyes as he surveys me sobbing in the storeroom where I've taken refuge. "Oh God, look at you! I know what this is. I know what it's like. We'll get through it." He's furious as the General informs us that his orders are to wait until the Salish migrate for the winter, then take the trinium. Sam, Teal'c and myself stand equally angry or horrified, but Jack is the focus of our emotions: frustrated as all hell with the blind idiocy of the orders. His hands reach for paper, pencil, and ruler and he begins drawing with manic intensity. My questions and Janet's go unanswered except for the note he scribbles: SHUT UP AND GO AWAY. Sam and other SGC personnel are dying on a planet burning up with two suns, and the DHD is broken. Jack's knowledge of the builders of the Stargate – the knowledge only I believe he has in his head – is the only thing that can save them. "Describe for me the dress your sister wore last week when I took her out." Only Jack. In Machello's aged body, I can't quite manage a smile, but my reply is as much of a laugh as possible: "I don't have a sister, Jack. And if I did, I wouldn't let you near her." Standing with the look of revulsion on his face as Hathor holds the goa'uld up to his face. It has chosen its host. It has taken its host. "Hello, Dr. Jackson." The harmonics of the voice crawl through Sam and I and we clamber to our feet and stare at the goa'uld who addresses us from beyond the bars. The dark eyes of Jack O'Neill look at us, but the being that stares out from behind them is alien beyond words. There is a smile on its face such as we never saw on Jack. Malicious joy. Without realising it, we've drawn closer together. A united front against the goa'uld. The goa'uld that wears the face of our friend. There is no contact between us, but I feel her shudder as if it was my own body responding. Prickles of cold skitter down the back of my shoulders and arms. Nothing will ever be the same. "This will be so much fun," hisses the goa'uld. "My queen has granted me you two as my personal slaves..." Sam closes her eyes beside me – I see the slow lowering of her lids. Usually when she's nervous or uncertain, her eyes go to Jack. It's more than just reassurance or leadership, he's her barometer, measuring the pressure of the situation. He was her barometer. Not any more. Personal slaves. What kind of slavery? The answer comes a moment later as the guards step into the cell. We struggle. At least, I try; Sam nearly breaks free. As her would-be jailers crumple under her blows, she turns to deal with the Jaffa who holds me captive, but finds herself facing the goa'uld. I see the sudden breathless agony in her eyes as she tries to strike, but her heart isn't in it. Even as she aims for the solar plexus in a move that would leave a human gasping, the goa'uld turns and the blow glances across the ribcage. Its hands grasp her shoulder and wrist and it flings her back against the bars with casual ease. Sam tries to recover, but the goa'uld disables her with a headlock, choking her to insensibility. She folds up, unconscious at its feet. Jack's face looks at me and smiles at my expression of horror. "This host has much knowledge that will prove useful in our fight against the System Lords and the Tau'ri." Everything Jack the hands of Hathor. Everything. From the Air Force military rankings, to GDO codes for the iris across the Earth Stargate; from the address of Sam's house, to the address for the Asgard homeworld. I'm shaking. I'm shaking so hard that my teeth chatter and my knees give way. I'm hauled to my feet as the goa'uld barks a command and another jaffa comes to take Sam. His treatment of her is less than gentle, and he receives a snarled reprimand from the goa'uld. We are taken to a room richly decorated in ancient Egyptian style. My eyes flicker over the walls and furniture, but I am given no time to study the design. They drag me to the wall on the other side of the room, and fasten me into smooth manacles – wrists, ankles, neck. The material is bright as silver, but strong. I tug at the chains, experimentally, and the goa'uld laughs, watching me with dark eyes. Jack's eyes. Sam is laid down on the bed, and the creature takes up what looks like a needle, and injects the contents into her arm. After a moment, her body shudders in reaction to whatever drug they have given her, and she writhes uneasily on the bed but doesn't awaken. Not yet. The goa'uld looks at me, and smiles. "He felt attraction for this woman, did he not?" One hand reaches for the buttons along the shoulder of Sam's top. With one powerful fluid movement it rips the material from her, exposing her flesh to his sight. Cream-coloured material is torn away to reveal creamy pale flesh, and the goa'uld looks upon her hungrily. Understanding of what is about to happen courses through me and my gorge rises in rebellion. I retch wildly, spewing bitter stomach juices to the floor, and the thing laughs at my misery. "Watch, Tau'ri, and remember..." With that, the goa'uld undresses. I can close my eyes, but not my ears. And what I hear will never ever leave me. This time, at least, the goa'uld is not bent on pain, but on pleasure. Sam responds, drugged as she is, to the man she thinks is making love to her. Dear God, if you're out there, if there's anything merciful in you, please-please-please-please-please don't let her remember this. Let the drugs erase this memory from her mind forever, because I'm not sure that Sam can live with it. I don't know that I can live with it. It's over at last, and the creaure rises from the bed, throwing a robe over its nakedness – Jack's nakedness. It comes to stand before me, and smiles – Jack's smile. I have to stop doing this. I know I do. But I can't. I can't look at the body of the man who was my friend – my brother! – and see the thing in him and not think of the man he was. The goa'uld tips my chin up and I look into Jack's eyes, knowing I'm betraying my fear, but unable to hide it. "Now you know what Hathor expects of you, Tau'ri." It watches as my panic rises. "Serve well," it looks to the bed where Sam lies, "And there will be pleasure beyond imagining. If you fail to please...there are other ways that can be used to torment you." It flicks its fingers at the emotionless guards, and they step towards me and unchain me. I try to struggle, but the creature grabs me by the throat and holds me against the wall, cutting off my breath. I clutch at the arm, and look into dark eyes that once regarded me with disdain, respect, amusement, mischief, pity, anger, irritation, concern, friendship. Not any more. It releases me and I drop gasping to the floor. If only it was a nightmare and I could wake up! As they drag me away, the goa'uld turns back to the woman on the bed and smiles. Jack's smile. --- the monster who is --- It's been over two weeks. Eighteen days. My life is simple enough. I wait on Kor'esh, the goa'uld who has taken my friend's body. Hand and foot. He is the master, and I the slave. I serve well. I serve very well. I tried rebelling at first. Small acts of disobedience that were satisfying if not conducive to escape. At first, they beat me, and I lived with the bruises and the aches, and smiled grimly to myself at night. Then Koresh taught me what would be the future price for my disobedience. It got inventive. Dragged to the 'watching post' in its room, I was forced to watch it play bedgames with Sam. When I tried to close my eyes against what I was seeing, the creature threatened it would extend the 'punishment'. After they dragged me away, I spent the night trying to blot the memory out and failing miserably. I'm sorry, Sam! I serve well. I serve very well. Of the two of us, Sam is the more fortunate. They drug her every evening, just before Kor'esh comes to her. The drug renders her incapable of fighting, but more than capable of response. The goa'uld doesn't enjoy an unresponsive partner. It must do something to her memory, too, because she no longer recognises me. Blue eyes stare blankly at me when I am called in to serve the goa'uld, and it hurts. It hurts because we are all that is left to each other after the goa'uld took Jack, and they've taken her from me, too. Jack, Teal'c, and Sam were my family. They were the most important people to me in the galaxy after Sha'ure. Sha'ure is still out somewhere among the stars, trapped in her body as Jack is trapped in his. Teal'c...I don't know what happened to him – only that if he was indeed caught by the goa'uld, he is dead. They would never let the shol'va – the traitor – live. And Sam spends her day sitting on a silk-covered bed, picking at the sheets like a human vegetable, and her nights in bed with Kor'esh. I can't run, even if I wanted to. I can't leave Sam behind. So I serve. One day at a time. Today is different. Something has happened elsewhere, something involving a great deal of yelling and running. Something that takes attention away from one more slave. I am unnoticed. Yesterday, when I saw Sam, I thought I saw the faintest hint of recognition in her eyes before they dragged me away that time. Just a hint. Enough to light the candle of hope. They drug her during the evening. Just before Kor'esh goes to her. I want to kick myself for not realising it sooner. Stupid Dr. Jackson! Your head in the archaeological clouds and no grip on reality! If they need to re-inject the drug because it wears off, then she would be lucid in the afternoon. The late afternoon. Headed towards Kor'esh's private chamber on the ship, nobody gives me a second glance. I move in the shuffle expected of a slave. Too terrified to rebel, too weak to oppose. That's what they think. I won't disabuse them of that notion. Not yet. Not until I find Sam. The doors open with a smooth hiss, revealing the gold-and-white lighting of the bedroom and the huge bed that dominates the chamber. The woman seated on the bed turns sharply, her body tense, bare arms up in defence mode. She stares at me and I stare at her. "Daniel?" The name that nobody else has uttered in nearly three weeks is like a blessing. She recognises me! I'm up on the bed and hugging her without any recollection of getting there. She flinches at the contact for a moment, then hugs me back tightly. I can feel her desperation as clearly as if it is passed through the thin gauze of her clothing. "Sam." "Daniel. Oh, God...Daniel." She's crying and so am I. It's been so long since we've had contact – real contact – with each other. It was bad enough when they told us we were the only one of our team left alive and that everyone we knew was dead. Since that day, the loneliness has been a thousand times worse. She recognises me – but only until they come to give her the drugs. Until Kor'esh comes for her. I don't want to know what it's done to her – I don't. But compassion and friendship and love compel me to ask: " bad is it?" Her voice is a cracked whisper over my shoulder, the thin thread of hysteria winding through it. "I...God,'s Jack – his body, his hands... but it's not... and... and... he uses me... and laughs at me as he... and the drugs... I can't resist them... I can't resist him..." Her body trembles in my arms and I hold her tighter, trying to convey all the sympathy and love I have for her. Do I ask her about what it does to her? Do I make her live through it again, or do I get her to expel it from her soul? She needn't keep secrets from me if they're going to rip her apart in the keeping. "You don't have to be strong for me, Sam." "No," she whispers. "I don't. But I have to be strong for myself...or I'll go mad." She pulls away from me, and as she does so she pulls herself together. For a moment, she is once again the self-possessed Air Force Captain. Then something in her sags a little, and the self-possession rubs away, showing weariness and fear and a haunted look in her eyes. One hand slips into the loose blonde hair and massages her skull gently. "They're giving me drugs of some kind." "I've seen them do it. I'm sorry I can't ..." One hand touches my arm, and she shakes her head. "I know the drugs to do something to my will, but I think they also do something to my memory." Her voice still hasn't risen above the husky whisper. Is it just a need for secrecy, or does Kor'esh require her silence along with her submission? "I...I have these gaps in my day. Like something happened but I can't remember what." There's frustration in her voice. Sam Carter, sharp as a razor blade, isn't used to these kind of lapses. A bitter smile crosses her face and the haunted look slips back in, "Unfortunately the parts I want to forget aren't the things I'm forgetting." No prizes for guessing exactly what she wants to forget. But there's something else gnawing at her. "What is it?" For a moment, I'm not sure she'll share it with me. Then: "Martouf told me once... with the Tok'ra, what one feels, the other feels. He and Lantash, and Jolinar and Rosha, they couldn't distinguish who felt what. Body chemistry influences the mind – and the body chemistry of the host will affect the goa'uld..." Suddenly I realise where she's going. "You're afraid Jack...uh...desired you...and that made the goa'uld..." I trail off. What a mess! I always knew there was chemistry between those two. You'd have to be blind not to see it. The jokes, the smiles, the teasing, the concern. But they're both strong-willed people, professionals who wouldn't let personal issues get caught up in their teamwork. It was both a blessing and a curse. My hand reaches out and catches hers. "Kor'esh would have taken you no matter who his host was." I grip her fingers tightly and receive a similarly fierce grip in return. "If it'd been me..." I wince. "I'd still be doing bedroom duty," she says with a ghost of her own humour again. Then she casts away her own worries and fears and nightmares and looks at me. "Daniel... has Hathor... tried anything on you?" I try to pull my fingers from hers, and she won't let me. Her grip is firm, but not harsh, and her eyes are understanding. It would be much easier if she was revolted by what had happened. "How are you?" Breathe deeply, stay calm, don't think of... Oh God. I can't look her in the eyes and say it, but I have to tell her. She was honest with me, this honesty is owed her in return. "About as together as any person who's been raped." The words are hard and bitter to say. It's a warning to her. She can hide it all she likes, but there are dark and horrible things I know she's hiding from me – the same way I'm hiding those things from her. And, friend though I am, it is a relief to know I don't have to live with the extended knowledge of what the goa'uld does to her each night. In return for that mercy, I won't burden her with any more than the knowledge that my fate hasn't been much better than hers. At least Hathor doesn't keep me chained to the bed. It's horrible enough to be taken against your will... Don't think of it, Daniel! Guilt and horror and anger and shame writhe through me, smearing darkness through my soul. At least, in the SGC, that time, it was my own drugged choice. I was enchanted, she was beautiful to my misted eyes and so... Revulsion came only after I woke from the haze of her spell. No such haze cushions me now. It's Sam's turn to take me into her arms and hold me. Perhaps I should panic at the touch – the intimacy of it. Hathor's touch has scarred me as Kor'esh's has scarred her. The only thing between us is the thin material of her robe and it hides nothing but the texture of the skin beneath. But this isn't a sexual hug, or even a sensual one. It's comfort and therapy from a friend who happens to be female. And the tactile contact is a reminder that we are still here and whole in body if not sound of mind, and we are here for each other. "How are we going to get out of here?" "I don't know that we are, Sam." She nods. No Stargate, no pilots to fly Death Gliders, not even the knowledge of where we are in the galaxy. "Then we blow the ship." It's not our choice of life, but it's our choice of death. "Ummm... I don't suppose you've noticed that we're a little short on C4?" Her smile is faint, and she gives me a look similar to the ones she used to give Jack when he asked a stupid question. "Daniel, anything that creates energy can be made to explode just by shutting off the output. A nuclear reactor forms the basis of a nuclear bomb. A naquadah reactor would be no different." Her teeth gently massage her lower lip, "What's the layout of the ship?" I try to explain to her what I've seen of the ship, drawing diagrams as best I can on the bedsheets linen. It's convoluted, and definitely not to scale, but we recognise a certain similarity from Apophis' ship a year ago. Makes sense. The goa'uld are not inventors. They steal, adapt, and destroy, but they don't create – unless it's havoc, mayhem, pain, and cruelty. Whatever the drugs do to her will and her memory, they haven't destroyed the scientist in her yet. She analyses the layout of the ship, compares it with her memory of Apophis' ship, and comes up with an area that probably holds at least one set of reactors – possibly for the power of the ship. "This isn't going to happen tomorrow, Daniel," she says a moment after determining the most likely point for sabotage. "I...well I can't go anywhere on the ship. You're going to have to be my eyes and ears and hands in this." My smile is grim, "We have time. Kor'esh enjoys holding onto the knowledge Hathor wants of the Tau'ri and the System Lords. She needs him, so he gets special treatment, and he doles out the information like a miser." "Maybe Jack's trying to frustrate the goa'uld," she suggests. "Ska'ara could prevent Klor'el from activating the ribbon device on you in Apophis' ship, and Sha'ure blinded Amonet on Abydos..." It's something that Jack would try to do, of course. Whether he's actually doing it, or Kor'esh is just a contrary bastard, we don't know. But we'll take all the help we can get. "I'd better go," I tell her. "Something happened this afternoon and I was able to slip away..." "...but you don't know how long before they'll miss you." She nods, but I can see she's reluctant to let me go. Truthfully, I'm reluctant to leave her. We're alone on a goa'uld ship, imprisoned, enslaved, abused, and suicidal. It doesn't get a whole lot worse than this. "Go," she tells me after an uncomfortable moment. "See if you can get here tomorrow. I'll..." she looks down and swallows. "I'll still be here." Our arms go around each other like a pair of frightened children and I close my eyes and breathe deeply. I'll be back tomorrow. I'm just about to let go, when the voice comes quietly from the doorway: "Take your hands from her, Daniel." I freeze, and so does Sam. We've tried to tell ourselves it's not Jack speaking – it's not our friend. But this voice carries no harmonic overtones and after nearly a month of hearing only the goa'uld voice, it shocks us. I turn, and he's standing there in the doorway, lean and angry. "Jack?" The word escapes my lips before I can stop it. It's not Jack, I know. Jack might be in there somewhere, but he's not the one doing the speaking, thinking or moving for this body. "Take your hands from Sam, Danny-boy." The threat is ugly and dangerous. I've heard the note in his voice directed at me once before – when he was infected by the virus from the Land of the Dark. Then, as now, I showed basic concern for Sam, and found myself facing a creature in a jealous rage. The danger is now I don't know who I'm facing. Jack, or the creature in his body. Worse still, the creature in Jack's body influenced by Jack's feeling for Sam, but without his restraints. Sam and I look at each other, fear leaping high in our eyes, but refuse to let go. Closer comes the goa'uld, and closer. It reaches the edge of the bed and the eyes flash gold as it reaches in and seizes my throat in a grip of iron. I am torn from Sam's grasp and flung off the bed. Ouch. New bruises on top of the old. I have time to wonder what my punishment will be, when the creature turns to Sam. She's trembling, fear paralysing her as it runs a finger lightly inside her collar. "I will enjoy your punishment, little slave." The harmonics of the goa'uld voice have returned as long fingers stroke down her throat and over her collarbone and she jerks away, revulsion all over her features. It's hand fists in the front of her gown as I launch myself at the goa'uld, pushing ineffectually. It catches my arm, letting go of Sam's. It takes two steps away from the bed, and twists it behind my back, forcing me to my knees. "Do you think to best me, Tau'ri? To touch what is mine?" There is rage in the voice as it hisses. "To take what belongs to your master?" Strong hands crush my arm as I let out a hissing groan of pain. In a minute, if it keeps twisting, I'm gonna have a dislocated shoulder... "Stop!" Sam's voice cuts through the agony, cracking in her desperation. "Kor'esh, please!" "You dare to beg for him?" Her intervention only enrages the goa'uld further. With a single command, he orders the guards in, and I am dragged away, my head turning to meet Sam's terrified gaze until the wall breaks into our line of sight. They chain me up in a cell, arms apart, over my head, my legs trailing on the floor. Not the most comfortable position to be in, but this isn't about comfort. A moment later, the door slides back and a struggling Sam is hauled in by Kor'esh. I catch her eye, and suddenly know what is going to happen. I'm going to be tortured and Sam's going to watch. It's a reverse of what happened when Kor'esh first came to gloat over us in Jack's body. Kor'esh lets her go, and she takes two steps towards me and slams into a force-shield between us. I see the shock on her face and then the terror that overtakes her as Kor'esh comes up behind her and traces a finger down her back. "So you see, little slave. You cannot help him." His hands close over her upper arms and he pulls her back from the force field. Within seconds, a man comes in and the torture begins. It begins as purely physical pain. Outside torment that wears me down until I can't keep the silence I swore to keep and find myself screaming until my vocal chords are raw. It only makes it worse to watch Sam through the force field. She's bitten through her lip, blood staining her mouth, and her fingernails are digging crescents into her palm. Over her shoulder, the face of my friend is visible, watching in unguarded glee as the torture takes it's slow toll on me. I keep telling myself it's his face, not him, but as the pain progresses, I can no longer tell the difference. First beatings, then a whipping. At first I take the weight of my body on my feet, but as time passes and blood trickles down my legs, I begin to hang from my arms. It puts strain on my shoulders, but I'm beyond caring. Everything hurts. Even my gasps for air, futile as a fish out of water, hurt the lacerated muscles of my back. Sam stands there, her arms held behind her back, flinching at each lash, at each blow. Our eyes meet, and I see in them the apology for her helplessness, her guilt at not being strong enough to overcome the goa'uld who laughs over her shoulder. The lashes stop, and I close my eyes at the brief respite knowing without being told that more is coming and that it will be worse. Something cold touches my spine, and I discover how much worse it is. Whatever it is rips through my nerves like a saw through silk. Cancerous pain sears through my muscles and into my raw nerve-endings. It tears through my body, spreading out from the point of contact like a flower: electrifying agony – like a prolonged jolt from a cattle prod. The Goa'uld are the masters of pain. How to cause it, how to inflict it. They can peel back the layers of sanity with breathtaking care, leaving the soft, fleshy suffering ripe for their consumption. And my pain is sweet to the creature who wears the body of my friend like a mask. Time passes and the roaring agony in my body is echoed in the screams that I can't hold in any longer. Still, clear as a snatch of music in a quiet, dark room; I can hear Sam's sobs and the goa'uld's laughter in counterpoint to my cries. At last the torture stops, and I hang limply from the manacles. It's an effort to raise my head and look at the creature who put me here, and the woman he possesses jealously. Sam is fighting the creature again, not the combat fighting of a trained Air Force Captain, but the fists and knees and fingernails of a desperate woman. The goa'uld has her trapped against the wall, and backhands her viciously at the same time as she manages to get her knee hard in its groin. As she goes down, hitting her head on the floor and lying there stunned, the goa'uld rises. It is evidently in pain, for the expression on Jack's face is a stiff grimace, and there is a deadly resolution in the eyes as it brings down the shield and comes to stand before me. A gesture and a sharp barked command sends the torturer away. I let my head hang again, unwilling to see the face of my friend causing such pain. Its finger touches my chin, and the creature says quietly: "I'm sorry, Daniel." Sorry? I almost choke with laughter. The damned goa'uld is sorry? Then it hits me. The words aren't in the goa'uld's voice. With effort, I raise my head, convinced this is a new trick. A new hallucination brought on by tiredness and pain. Then I feel the faint twinge in my chest and stare down at the tide of red pouring from the wound in my chest. Sam screams my name, her voice raw with emotion. I look up into Jack's eyes. Jack's eyes. Grief and guilt and horror and anguish...emotions the goa'uld has never known – only inflicted. But behind them, the determination not to let me suffer any longer. Mercy. Sam screams for me again, her voice trailing into a sob of despair, and Jack's head jerks up with horror spilling across the rugged features as he turns. "God, Carter!" But before he can go to her, his eyes flash bright gold as the creature takes back the body stolen from it – the body it stole eighteen days ago. Fury blossoms forth across its expression – fury that its host managed to overcome it, however briefly. Fury because its enjoyment was muted and cut short. Sam is still sobbing, and Kor'esh strides to her and takes her head in its hands. It looks from her face to mine, and as darkness spreads to my mind, I see the creature bare its teeth in a hiss of malevolence. It twists Sam's head brutally. Her neck snaps like a twig and her head lolls on her shoulder in an unnatural pose. I gather enough energy to breathe her name, a benediction of agony in my lungs as my strength ebbs from me. Then darkness claims me like a lover. - fin -	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2087684/1/Good-Friend-Lost	<urn:uuid:01ba9999-4258-45d5-84be-823abd2a350b>	en	0.975542	0.036216
Chapter 1 - The Cheshire Bat After a very long, and equally relaxing weekend with Harley, Joker had dealt with quite enough. He told her to shove off for a while.. and then retreated to his drawing table. Plans upon plans littered the desk and floor, wrinkled and covered in pencil scratches. So many options.. so many ways to attract the Bat's attention.. but so many complications, as well. He sighed heavily and sat down at the desk, feeling the chair creak under his thin frame. It was time to return to work.. but after a few days of not even thinking on the subject, it would be hard to delve back in. Batman was becoming all the more difficult to play with nowadays... all those new gadgets and handy little side-kicks. "Side-kicks," Joker muttered through his gloved fingers. "Hmph.." He rested one arm over the back of his chair, and his chin on his right hand. "I'm sure that's all they are," he grumbled sarcastically. "Side-kicks must be rodent-code for something." He giggled a little and bit the tip of his middle finger. "I should crack it someday." The Clown Prince of Crime leapt from his chair after a few hours, grinning madly with devious intent. "Ha-ha! I know something that will gather his eyes for sure! And if this doesn't, I don't know what will!" He spends the rest of his night planning for the event, giggling and scribbling on pieces of paper... Back at the Manor, Batman was pondering recent events. The encounter with Two-Face on the bridge, dinner with Miss Kyle, her disappearance without another word, and a very strange encounter with the Joker in a bath towel. . . He shuddered inwardly as he realized that thinking about a date had shifted into an image of his half-naked arch nemesis, handcuffed to a water pipe. It was times like this he was afraid he really was losing his mind. The next day.... Sirens all throughout Arkham began ringing, alerting every cop in Gotham that something was wrong in the nuthouse. "Oops.. I didn't remember that being there." Joker put his hands on his hips and frowned. "They must've just installed it." Bruce Wayne had just gotten to sleep when Alfred awoke him, alerting him to the problem at Arkham. During the day? He thought. He hated wearing the suit during the day, but he didn't have much choice. He hurried down to the cave, noticing that he'd left a copy of "Alice and Wonderland" out in the study the night before. Funny, he didn't remember reading that book last night. He opened the secret door and headed down to the Batcave. . . But I don't want to go among mad people. He thought, remembering the story and it's odd applicability in his current situation. 'Oh, you can't help that,' said the Bat. 'We're all mad here.' Cat. That was the Cat. Wasn't it? He descended the stairs. . . 'I'm mad, you're mad.' He donned the Bat suit and drove toward Arkham. . . How do you know I'm mad? He thought, stuck in the book's dialogue. He couldn't remember the next line until he was actually at the asylum, the story pushed away by thoughts of what to expect. The next line came crashing back as he entered the building. 'You must be,' said the Bat, 'or you wouldn't have come here.' Cat. The Cat, damn it. The Cheshire Cat. But he didn't see a cat when he looked down at his shadow, spilling onto the floor by way of Arkham's harsh but dim light. He was Batman, the one in Gotham who chased away 'the ugly dreams that frightened you when all was dark'. . . By becoming them. Back at the Manor, Alfred replaced the book on the bookshelf, wondering if his longtime charge had gotten the point. Joker waited until he heard the sound of the large door close at the front of the building before doing anything. It meant that Batman was inside.. and he could begin a little mayhem. His lithe frame leaned heavily on a wall down in one of the hallways.. he was simply laying in wait, now. Batman stalked down the hallways of the dreary asylum, every sense tuned for anything that was the least bit out of place. The walls in Arkham seemed to whisper to him as he progressed. But of course they didn't. That was crazy. A drip of water here. A scurrying of vermin there. Those were real sounds. And there was the sound of someone breathing, fairly heavily at that. Was it him, or someone else. He pressed against one of the damp, slightly slimy walls and held his breath, waiting to see if the sound would continue. The whispers continued. Louder now. Perhaps they were real. Curiouser and curiouser. The Prince's eyes were dark, filled with hellish intent. He could hear faint footsteps approaching.. but couldn't see a form just yet. A small war went on in his mind.. Call out and taunt him.. see where he is.. No! No! Run.. run far away and hide someplace! He could already feel the impending bruises where surely his nemisis would hit him... But it was exciting, and the Joker couldn't deny it. He waited a short while longer, itching to move, to speak.. to do anything. But when he could see a faint movement in the darkness, a grin spread over his face, infecting his body with giggles. "YOOHOO! Batsy!" he called, leaning forward at the waist while holding his hands to his mouth. Like lightning, Batman lashed out and seized the Joker by the throat, tearing him from his hiding place and slamming him against the wall with such force that he felt a mist of water fly back. A cracking. Brick or bone. Hard to tell. Labored breathing. Two sources. Small choked sounds. Rats scattering. A bird somewhere taking flight. "Joker," Batman growled. The white-faced clown gasped and choked in Batman's grip. He had definitely under-estimated him this time. He hadn't even been able to push the switch - the one he'd been hiding behind his body. The inmates were still all safely locked away.. and he was all but defenseless at the moment. "Hello, B-batsy," he coughed out, a trickle of blood running down his chin. Dammit! NOW what?! Batman tilted his head to the side ever so slightly, the rubbery material coating the kevlar of his cowl creaking. Any second, all hell would break loose. He just had to wait for it. Some trap would spring or someone would rush him. So he waited, staring at the Joker, trying to search for clues as to which madman he was dealing with today. There was something in the way that those maddened eyes looked back that revolted him to the core. He was losing this battle of wills. Unacceptable. The Joker was insane. He could overcome his tricks and games. This should not be this hard. It was fighting the urge to lash out that made things difficult. When you were dealing with someone as off-balance as the Joker, madness felt contagious. So why did it feel like something was stirring inside of him, causing his skin to crawl, instead of the other way around? It was the building. Had to be. The seconds ticked by, and nothing happened. This wasn't right. Or was this a new tactic the Joker was using to drive him crazy? "You're wasting my time." He said menacingly. "Or are you.." Joker coughed, "wasting mine?" He grinned and let out a short string of laughter, unable to contain his amusement. "And anyway, Batsy.. you rushed me too quickly.. Nothing's going to come at you from behind, drop on you from above.. or whatever else your strange little mind is imagining." He sighed and squirmed a little, unsure of what to do with his hands, exactly.. Well.. there WAS that gun in his belt. He could reach for that. But instead, he went on talking.. "Do you feel at home, yet? Is this place all you'd remembered it to be?" His brow lowered over his eyes, giving himself a devilish expression. "YOU got ME out here!" Batman said, his irritation getting the better of him. "Arkham has NEVER felt like home, no matter how many times you push that on me!" "You sure do like saying that, don't y-" The Joker was cut off by the sudden intensity of Batman's hand on his throat. All Batman would have to do is squeeze. Just snap his pencil neck, and put them both out of a great deal of misery. . . No! What was he thinking? He wasn't thinking. He was leaning even harder on the Joker, risking crushing his windpipe, and leaving his hands free. That green-haired psycho ALWAYS had a gun. Think, damn it! Don't let him get to you! With his free hand, he started searching the Joker's body for a gun, sliding his hands under the purple jacket, along the Joker's belt. "Mmm, Batsy.. I didn't know you were into S&M," the clown taunted, letting out choked giggles between his words. He reached out and grabbed Batman's arm - the one searching him - and then used his right to grab for the gun. Batman let go of Joker's throat and grabbed at the hand reaching for the gun. Damn it! Stupid! Careless! His subconscious screamed as he grabbed the boney, pale wrist and slammed it against the wall, trying to get him to drop the gun as he kept Joker pinned with his body. Joker growled and tried turning the gun around, fighting against Batman's strength even as his mind knew it was over already. Who was he kidding? Angrily, he dropped the gun, figuring it wasn't worth the strain of a broken wrist. "There you go, again.. taking all the fun outta my life!" A flash of embarrassment suddenly came and went over the Joker's expresson.. Quite against his will - or was it? - a shiver raced down through his gut in response to the heavily-muscled body pressing against his. He prayed to anything higher on the food chain that Batman wouldn't notice.. In order to distract from his thoughts, he said, in a sing-song voice, "Oh, dear! I seem to have lost my gun! Could you get it for Batman kicked the gun away. "You didn't lose it. I found it. When someone carries a gun that big, I notice." He said, getting tired of the routine they dropped into every time they faced off. "You constantly making the same mistakes just makes my job easier." He had heard the flapping of wings again as the gun hit the ground, and for a moment, could have sworn the Joker shook a little. Was he afraid? No, he was too crazy to be afraid. What then? It almost felt like. . . He pushed the thought away. No way in hell. That was just. . . Sick. A subtle psyche job. Well, it wasn't going to work. "So are you going to tell me what's going on?" He said. "Or am I going to have to break your trigger finger?" "You're going to have to break my trigger finger," Joker said lowly, masking his feelings with a look of pure evil. He squirmed a little against Batman, wishing the guy would loosen up just a bit.. let him breathe or something.. The air in the room was getting thick.. things weren't going as planned.. or at all, it seemed. Or... were they just taking a strange course tonight? "Well, anyway.. as I was saying before," he began, clearing his throat of that bloody taste. "I wanted to let you know you're still welcome here. And.. we were going to have a little bash for you! A welcome home kinda thing.. but.. you spoiled that fun, didn't you?" He frowned like he didn't really care, and dared to shrug. "I have a habit of doing that." Batman deadpanned. The feeling of the Joker wriggling against him was making him feel increasingly more ill, as if the madman's unchecked depravity was somehow rubbing off from physical contact. He backed away a little, trying to stop himself from swallowing hard. "Who's 'we'?" He asked. "Oh, silly Batsy! You know what I mean!" Joker grinned and leaned his head forward, raising his eyebrows. "We! The inmates of Arkham! Who else would throw such a thing for YOU?" He wiggled his shoulders up and down, physically demonstrating his glee. "You shouldn't have." Batman grumbled flatly. "Fine. You can make introductions." He yanked Joker away from the wall and roughly shoved the willowy green-haired man in front of him. If anything was going to jump out at them, they were going to hit Joker first. "Move." He said, pushing the Joker forward so hard he heard his spine pop in a few places. "Ow," Joker muttered, rubbing his wrist where Batman had clenched it. He haunched over a little, recovering from the Bat's shove. "Why such the sour face, Bats? Don't you like me anymore?" He fake-pouted, batting his eyes a few times in the hero's direction. "You aren't going to lock me up again, are you? That's so... droll." "You're sick." Batman snapped, flicking his elbow up to catch Joker in the jaw. "Isn't droll your MO?" "Augh! Geez!" Joker exclaimed, falling over backwards in response to Batman's out-lash. He rubbed his chin with one hand, glancing around for any sort of weapon he could use.. being on the bottom of the food chain was embarrassing.. and downright crummy. "What's the matter with you tonight? Get your wings clipped?" Batman caught Joker before he hit the ground and pulled him up by the front of his shirt. The sound of tearing fabric echoed through the dark halls. "Most people aren't in the best of moods when they have to come to Arkham Asylum." He said, pulling Joker up so he was face-to-face with him. "And I'm still a bit annoyed that the police seem incapable of keeping you in custody. I'm getting tired of baby-sitting your every tantrum." "And I'm tired of dealing with YOUR tantrums," Joker spat, trying his best to stay eye-level with the taller man. "You get so full of rage and then spoil my fun.. it's kind of pathetic." He shrugged and then tried to brush Batman's hands away. "Let me down. I have business to attend to." "When you're back in your cell, you can attend to any business you want." Batman said, reaching for a pair of batcuffs. He didn't like the sound of this 'business'. "Getting a sense of Deja Vu?" He asked as he snapped them on the Joker's wrist and set him down on the ground. "Thank god you're dressed this time." A sly grin crept over Joker's face as he contemplated the ease in which he could respond to a statement like that. In a sultry voice, he shot back, "Too bad it's not the other way around, huh? Or.. wait! That's right, you like playing the dominant part... so maybe you should help me out of these awful clothes." He broke into another fit of laughter, kicking his feet up into the air and rolling onto his back. Batman grabbed the Joker and slammed him shoulder first into one of the walls. "SHUT UP!" He bellowed, feeling somehow violated. "Filthy, disgusting. . ." Don't let him get to you. That's his game, He told himself, shutting off his tirade. "If this is how you want me," Joker responded, using the same voice on Batman as he did on Harle - when he wanted something of her. "But uhh.. maybe we can take this someplace more... comfortable?" He winced and let out a sharp cry of pain as Batman pressed him into the wall. The sane part of Batman's mind responded to that almost childlike cry and eased off. Just get this lunatic back in his cell and leave. He told himself, fighting down the urge to torch the whole building with the Joker locked inside it. He was starting to feel dizzy and nauseous. Not good. "Let's go. You're boring me." He said as he started to drag the Joker toward the part of the Asylum where he was normally housed. "No, not there, Batsy! Please?!" Joker tugged against Batman's cuffs, sticking his legs out in front of him to try to slow their progress down to a minimum. "Let me try again! Let me go and I'll go plot something different! This wasn't fair! I didn't even get to kill anybody!" Maybe crying would work again.. It sure made the Bat back off just now. He sniffled a little and conjured up a few tears, trying his best to look pathetic. "I don't think so." Batman said stoically, throwing the Joker over his shoulder and continuing toward the cells. "No killing." "Alright, then, fine! I won't kill anybody! Just let me down, please!" Joker was quickly growing frustrated. Sure, it was nice having the rodent's complete and total attention... but this was too much. Angrily, he beat on his captor's back, balling his thin fists up and doing his damndest to get free. "Come on! You're not playing fair!" Batman knew he shouldn't believe a word the lying psychopath said, but he was curious as to what was going on. It wasn't like the Joker to have a plan as weak as this one was. He set the Joker down and shoved him away. "Like you ever play fair." He said, prepared to tackle the Joker if he made any sudden moves. Joker cleared his throat, leaned on one leg and blatantly ignored Batman for a few minutes. He moved his wrists around in the handcuffs and wished he could take them off, but then let his hands fall down in front of him. He met Batman's eyes, lifted one brow... and then bolted, racing deeper into the Asylum halls... "Damn." Batman hissed. He should have known better. He HAD known better. He needed to stop reacting to being inside Arkham. Racing after the Joker, he grabbed a batarang from his belt and threw it at the Joker's fleeing form, hoping to trip him. Joker suddenly tumbled and fell, getting the batarang right in the ankles. He let out a surprised yelp and rolled a few feet - just enough distance to reach the basement stairs... which he promptly began falling down. Batman stopped at the top of the stairs. They were hard, narrow, numerous, and the railing was broken halfway down. Shaking his head with frustration, he fired a grappling hook into the ceiling, tested his weight on it, and swung out to snatch the Joker from the jaws of stair-induced death. He couldn't let him die. That was what separated him from that Madman. He didn't kill and he didn't let people die. . . not anymore. He grabbed the Joker around the waist and held on to him as he swung toward the second landing. Joker clung to Batman with balled fists until they reached the landing. Heart pounding and his eyes wild, he fell backward onto the metal floor and panted for a few moments. "You have a tendency to shove me down stairs, don't you?" He hopped up to his feet and took a few steps forward, brushing himself off and composing his expression.. "But then, you always come and swoop down out of the sky.. at the last moment.." He batted his eyes and folded his hands, leaning onto the Dark Knight's shoulder. "My hero!" he exclaimed, forcing his voice up a few decibels. "I didn't shove you down the stairs." Batman protested, not knowing how to react to the Joker touching him. Part of him felt sorry for him. Part of him was angry that someone would think he tried to kill them. Part of him remembered that this was the JOKER. "I wouldn't do that. And it was hardly the last moment." He took a step back, not liking the situation one bit. "Oh, but of course it was!" Joker responded gaily, rushing to fill the step Batman had taken backward. He latched onto the larger man's muscled arm, pulled himself in and leaning his cheek on his shoulder. "I almost died! I could've ended up as short as ol' Pengy! But YOU rescued me.. you must love it when I break out of Arkham.. it means you get to save me from certain death!" His face turned devious, though, and he considered the weapons on Batman's belt.. Oh, the options at hand... Batman grimaced and tried to peel the Joker off. It took him a few moments to catch the look on his face. With all his strength, he shoved the Joker away. "Then why don't you just try to kill yourself instead of everyone else?" He growled. "Oh, because nothing is more interesting than killing people.. in the most hilarious of ways." Joker brushed himself off and smoothed back his green curls, acting as though nothing had happened just now. "And anyway, I should be going. I have work to do." He headed for the door, knowing full-well that Batman would stop him. And was planning on it. Batman stepped in front of him, blocking the doorway. "I don't particularly want to hurt you anymore." He said. "But the only place you're going is back to your cell." "Are you coming with me?" Joker asked, tilting his head to the side. "Because unless you are - which I doubt - then neither am I." He folded his arms over his chest, mocking one of Batman's famous poses. "Fine." Batman said. "We'll play this your way." He grabbed Joker again, scooping him up in a somewhat fetal position and carrying him to his cell, punching the button that engaged the electric locks and slipping in before the door closed, locking them both inside. "Happy now?" He asked. At least this way, this only person the Joker could hurt was him. Joker squirmed around and kicked at the air, demanding to be released. As soon as Batman stopped moving, he managed to get out of his captor's arms.. and to land rather gracelessly on the floor. He shot up to his feet and looked around the small, padded cell. "What in the world has come over you, Bats?!" The space was all of ten feet by ten at the most.. and rather dark. He leaned against one of the padded walls and sighed. Nonchalantly, he remarked, "At least you're where you belong, now." "Funny, I was just thinking the same thing about you." Batman grumbled, leaning against the opposite wall and staring at the Joker. "Nothing's come over me. I wanted to get you somewhere where you couldn't hurt any innocent people." "Well," Joker started, pushing away from the wall and taking a few steps forward. He rested one hand on his hip, and then made a point with the other, aiming it at the Dark Knight. "That means you aren't innocent, then. Because.. technically, I can still hurt you." He giggled softly and then settled his other hand on his hip as well. Batman stared at him, saying nothing. He wasn't being told anything he didn't know. His presence in the room seemed to make the small space even darker than normal. "You're so depressing," Joker hissed, his brow lowering. He folded his arms... dared to move closer to Batman, and then leaned on the wall nearby. He imitated his nemisis, sticking his chin out and moping about as darkly as he could manage. "I have a stick up my ass," he giggled, breaking the silence. Batman slowly turned to look at him. "Are you complaining or bragging?" He asked. "Oh, bragging of course," Joker responded, turning to stare right back. "Any Bat should be pleased to have a shard of lumber up his ass." A strange and very excited look crossed the clown's eyes.. as his left arm suddenly started reaching for a dangerous and yet well-rounded area on Batman's body. "Let's see just how deep this thing goes!" Batman lashed out like a statue coming to life, and his foot kicked out at the Joker's midsection. Hard. "Do NOT touch me!" He ranted. "Or there will be more than lumber displacing your internal organs! Is that UNDERSTOOD!?" "Ooooh," Joker cooed, leaning over the floor, hardly able to stand the pain. "What's wrong, sweetheart? Did I remind you of Robin?" He choked and coughed, blood splattering on the floor. "You're so angry with me.. I can FEEL it!" He rolled over onto his back and muttered, "And oh how pretty you get when you're angry!" Batman leaned against the wall, on the verge of panic. This was bad. This was very bad. He was stuck in this cell with the Joker at least until morning, and he was already on the verge of killing his nemesis. The mention of Robin had enraged him. The Joker DID remind him of Robin, but not in the way he thought. Every time Batman looked at that pasty face, he was reminded of Jason Todd's death. The Joker had done the bludgeoning, but it had been Batman's fault. He was trying to keep his rage in check. If he hit the Joker any harder than he had, he might have killed him. As it was, he may have sustained severe internal injuries. He was losing this fight. He was playing this game by the Joker's rules, and there was no way he could win that way. The Joker was crazy. He wasn't crazy. He was in control. He had to believe that. No more violence! He told himself. He was reacting out of fear. Batman wasn't supposed to be afraid of anything. It was the other part of him, the part that was still a frightened six year-old, that was terrified. Come on Bruce, get it together. He told himself. Think. Act. Don't react. Start getting the Joker to answer some questions. Hurt him in another way. Physical punishment just couldn't incapacitate someone that out of his mind. In fact, he seemed to ENJOY the pain. Sick. Twisted. Depraved. Batman didn't want the Joker enjoying anything he caused. Time to change things. He took a breath and crouched down next to the Joker, reaching for the place on his belt where he kept the painkillers. He pulled out a syringe. Morphine. He hardly ever used the stuff, and never on himself. He kept it in case someone else needed it. This was one of those cases. He wasn't using it now because of the side effects of the Opium derivative. At least he told himself that. "Why is it that you insist on putting my relationship with Robin in that light?" He asked as he rolled up the Joker's sleeve and searched for a vein. "Oh, yes.. that's right. Robin's dead, isn't he?" Joker leaned up on his other arm and snickered. "But uhh.. didn't you get a new one? Where do you find these little buggers, anyway? At an ACO store? I should probably get one someday. They'd probably be just about ten times as useful as Harley.. and if I got sick of 'im, I could just shoot him - BANG! - in the head." He leaned his head back and grinned, half out of it from the brutal attentions he'd received.. but too far gone to care. Batman paused, fighting the urge to jab the syringe in the Joker's eye. He took a shuddering breath, then continued. "And anyway, Batsy, sweetheart, darling.. it makes perfect sense. You're obviously an older man. Not many babes go after white hair these days.. so it would be convenient if you had a stock of say.. two or three youngin's around. That would explain Robin, Nightwing - and he IS such a find young lad, isn't he! - and then Batgirl." Right about then, Batman managed to find the right vein.. "Ow!" Joker whined, looking down at the intruding needle. "Why must you insist on sticking things in my arm..? Heh.. heh.." His other arm felt weak suddenly, so he laid down on the floor. "Heh.." The bastard had to bring up Batgirl too, Batman thought. But he was NOT going to give the Joker the satisfaction of seeing him squirm with that one. He feigned an arrogant calm. "You're wrong about the older man thing." He said. "Unlike you, my dates don't have a voice that could peel paint. I'm surprised you haven't killed Harley yet." God, but that girl was nerve-grinding. "Well.. that may be true.. but Harley has gone through puberty by now," Joker quipped back, watching Batman warily with tired green eyes. "But unless you're offering a date, drop the act. I can see right through your little facade, DARling. You're so insecure about yourself and I can feel every bit of it." He coughed a few times and giggled in response, feeling very strange all of a sudden. "And besides.. Harley is useful on the occasion." "Do I want to ask what you mean by useful?" Batman said, trying to ignore the 'date' comment. . . but it was really bugging him. "Drop the constant suggestions that I'm a pedophile and we'll talk." He said, unable to let the whole thing just go by. "Why do you think I'm insecure?" This, he hoped, would prove to be interesting. "Well, first off... I'd like to say that useful can mean any number of different things. But, because it's you, I'll say that useful includes those lonely moments at night when I just can't seem to entertain myself!" He neglected to mention how she always broke him out of Arkham as well.. Maybe if Bats didn't think of that, he wouldn't go after her. Batman, for the sake of his stomach, would assume that meant they played checkers. "Why are you insecure?" Joker asked no one in particular. If Batman was paying attention, he'd notice the way his nemisis had rearranged the sentence. "Very simply put, you hit me every time I say anything." A small giggle ended the sentence, punctuating his words. "But besides that, there's the obvious one. This." He reached up and ran a finger over Batman's mask, bringing it down his nose. Batman yanked his head away. "You're sick." he said again. "And you're wrong. That's not insecurity. Most people are put off being in the presence of a mass murderer, never mind being touched by you." The mask crawled against his skin where the Joker had touched him, but he tried to ignore it. "You said something, I didn't hit you." He said, not wanting to think about it. "Wrong again." He got up slowly, not wanting it to seem like he was running away. Joker ignored the last part of what Batman had to say, putting his hand to his forehead. "Sick? I don't seem sick.. maybe you'd better take my temperature." He forced himself to sit up, wincing against the pain in his gut. "Now where do you think you're going? I'm not done talking to you. You may as well get comfortable because you're going to have to listen to me for the rest of the night." "You're still in pain?" Batman asked, worried that he'd done some serious damage. "That shouldn't be." He leaned over and felt the Joker's forehead, and grabbed one of his wrists. "You're going into shock." He said gravely, looking around for something to put under the Joker's knees. He yanked the mattress off the cot on the wall and tossed it onto the floor and shoving it up against the wall so it bent in an 'L.' "Can you move?" He asked the Joker. "You need to get your legs elevated." "I can move, see..?" Joker waved his hands around in front of Batman, frowning and grumbling something afterward. He coughed once and tried to lay down again, pulling away from Batman. "Goddamn Batman.. I think you've killed me." He coughed again and acted like he was angry, ignoring the part about getting his legs elevated. "If you were dead, you wouldn't be talking to me." Batman spat, picking the Joker up putting him on the mattress. He looked around the cell for something to prop his legs up. There wasn't much to be had. Resigning himself to what he was about to do, he detached his cape from his suit, rolled it up and put it under the Joker's knees. "Don't move." He cautioned, pressing his fingers into Joker's throat to check his pulse. Joker was beside himself with amusement. Batman had carried him to the bed and laid him down, acting as though he was genuinely concerned. It was unusual for the Bat to do so, but the Clown Prince was getting a kick out of it, anyway. He grinned, chuckling a little under Batman's thick fingers. He was surprised the Bat hadn't already recoiled. "Getting used to my cold skin, darling?" "Shut up." Batman said, intentionally more quietly than he had before. "I'm trying to find out if your pulse is normal. Don't talk for at least fifteen seconds." The Joker's pulse was a little faint. That wasn't good. He was feeling too guilty to even respond to that last. . . odd comment. "Why so glum, Bats?" The Joker raised his eyebrows, curiosity sparked in his green eyes. "Your mood changed just now. Don't you want to play anymore?" Batman examined the Joker's face critically. He seemed fine, but that could be the drugs. "Your pulse is faint, and a bit irregular." He said. "Lie still. Playtime's over." Joker sighed and folded his hands over his stomach, wincing slightly. "You're st... ooh..." He raised one hand to his forehead, suddenly looking quite unsure about himself. By now a cold sweat had formed on his body. His vision blurred.. darkened.. and then the clown went limp. "Joker?" Batman said cautiously, a feeling of dread welling up in him. Batman rushed over and rolled the Joker onto his back, checking to see if he was breathing. Not that he could tell. Damn it. He shook the frail-looking man by the shoulders. No response. The son of a bitch was dying on him. He couldn't let that happen. His voice echoed fruitlessly through the cell and down the halls. No one responded to anything but an alarm at Arkham at this time of night, and the building had been evacuated when the Joker first pulled this prank of his. Whether he lived or died was in Batman's hands now. The Dark Knight's choice was clear. He loosened the Joker's tie, undid his shirt, tilted his head back and started CPR.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/844446/1/The-Game-We-Play	<urn:uuid:da0c4cec-1949-44ba-b16a-96d05df7ad6d>	en	0.990004	0.158195
English 65 Set Clip Length: osborne unveiled the government's proposed tax and spending plans to members of the british house of commons. he told members 600,000 more jobs will be added this year according to forecasters. corporation tax will be cut to 20%, the lowest tax rate than any other economy in the world. in his one-hour speech, chancellor osborne announced measures aimed at assisting small business owners, first- time homebuyers, and british veterans. this is about an hour and 15 minutes. mr. deputy speaker, this is a budget for people who aspire to work hard and get on. it's a budget for people who realise there are no easy answers to problems built up over many years. just the painstaking work of putting right what went so badly wrong. and together with the british people we are, slowly but surely, fixing our country's economic problems. we've now cut the deficit not by a quarter, but by a third. we've helped business create not a million new jobs, but one and a quarter million new jobs. we've kept interest rates at record lows. but mr. deputy speaker, despite the progress we've made, th a blue-collar conservative project which has taxes are people who work hard, do the right thing and want to get on? stop spending billions of pounds we don't have on overseas aid where we saw -- helping with their cost of living -- [inaudible] >> first of all, can i thank the honorable frien thing for givine the opportunity to remind people that even before this budget in two weeks time there will be a tax cut for 24 million people in our country? [shouting] as we raise the amount of money you can earn before you pay tax come we will take an over too many people out the tax altogether. we have frozen the council tax. we have canceled fuel duty increase after fuel duty increase, and we are legislating -- and i can also tell him where not going to carry on with a proposal made by the previous energy secretary which was about 179 pounds on everybody's bill. we decided to scrap that. >> ed miliband. [shouting] >> trento want to ask the primers about the situation in cyprus. can the prime minister update the house what is being done to protect the british nationals including our armed forces the sequester and in committee, democrats proposed to close those special interest tax loopholes that riddle our tax code, republicans said no. democrats proposed to offset unwise republican cuts to medical research like alzheimer's, cancer, diabetes research at n.i.h., republicans said no. democrats tried to cut the special interest spending in the tax code to offset republican cuts to students who rely on pell grants but republicans said no. mr. van hollen: i yield the gentleman another minute and a half. the chair: the gentleman is recognized. ms. castor: the democrats in the budget committee proposed to strengthen medicare and replace the republican plan to turn medicare into a voucher program. all it does is simply shift the cost tour families and older neighbors. mr. speaker, this republican budget is not consistent with american values. it is not fiscally responsible. it is a charade, it is a capitulation to the tea party. it does not serve us well in economic recovery and the ways we want to grow america. it's a plan for economic weakness. it's a receding vision of american greatness. in their proposals on taxes. under their budget, the top rate is to be reduced from 39.6% to 25%. the a.m.t. will be repealed. the corporate tax rate will be cut from 35% to 25%. but you don't find one sill bell in the republican budget on how these tax cuts will be paid for. . they don't identify a single tax policy that will end. the republican budget would mean a huge tax cut for the very wealthy, several $100,000 a year and leave a nearly $6 trillion hole in the deficit that would lead to tax increases for middle-income families. that isn't balance. that is total imbalance. at the same time, republicans propose cutting $3.3 trillion from programs for people with low and moderate incomes, including hundreds of billions of dollars for food nutrition and medicaid programs. so i want to end by asking the republicans when they come and talk about their tax proposals to name a specific that they would address. it's not in the republican budget. name one, name two, name three. otherwise, it's worse than empty. the chair: the time of the gentleman has expired. the gentleman from wisconsin. it to the rich. let's raise taxes trillions of dollars. let's go and stick it to special interests like people who he provide gasoline at the pump. to raise taxes on oil companies. ladies and gentlemen, every time you raise taxes, you raise prices. and every time you race -- raise prices the consumer has to pay more for it. these are the ideas that make america less able to be prepared for its future and cost more money. that's why when you look at this slide you see where the laws already enacted by the democrats are leading america to where we will be functionally bankrupt. we are following theure peaian model exactly what -- the european model exactly what they have done over there for a number of years and now we are seeing firsthand, iceland, greece, cyprus just yesterday. this is the pathway that if our friends, the democrats, get their say, this is where they'll lead us. so republicans through paul ryan spoke about we want to make sure that medicare, social security, that the free enterprise system is alive and well by making these plans and the process therein ready for the employers a wanted to commend it administration for its aggressiveness in getting this person. a tax that may be planned by al qaeda -- attacks that may be planned by al qaeda. all of us should agree that the work that you have done and what the fbi has done since 9/11, really protecting the country against any massive domestic terrorist attacks, and all of your activities internationally, it has really been remarkable. not itscy, it was primary focus on 9/11, but as much of the country, we've had to focus more intently on this issue. i do want to bring you back home. my final question is about the budget and appropriations and the department of justice. we imprison more people than any other nation in the world through our state and federal prison systems. 24% of the doj budget -- you are at about 29%. it will continue to rise. at some point, we need to think differently about what we're doing with people. i have constituents, family, children, we all want to be protected from dangerous people. a society ought to be protected. people involved in wrongdoing should be punished. at some point a now that they are working on does nothing more than raise taxes. they want more of your money, more money out of your paycheck. ask yourself does washington really need more of your money? we are $16 trillion in debt. we have deficits we can't even wrap our arms around, and they want more of your money. if you were a financial advisor that put you $1 million in debt and ripped through your college savings for your children and all of your checking account and said, just give me more money and we'll solve the problem, would you do it? absolutely not. more than jobs, though, we are also working to save medicare and social security, the commitments that we have made to the american people. so let's take a look here at the big picture. here's a budget breakdown of where we are at right now. look, your eyes are glazed over and we start talking about the trillions of dollars that we spend, but let's take a look at what you pay versus what you expect. this big blue part right here? that's on auto pilot. no adults have come to the table to talk about where we are at today and how to actuall a tax. andxes when you earn money the government takes away some of your money. all this is a basic issue of fairness. there is not a spare room subsidy for people in private rental accommodations in receipt of housing benefits. so we should ask why is there a ?pare room subsidy this government is putting it right. the youth led digital increasing cutting machine. tomorrow, nestlÉ opened the brand-new's date of the mark -- state-of-the-art plant. does my right honorable friend agree with me that these significant investments show that this government is making written well-equipped to win the global race. >> i think my honorable friend is absolutely right. i do see investment taking place by large multinational companies like nestlÉ who recognize now we have one of those come additive tax systems anywhere else in the world. kpmg recently reported that come in just two years, we have gone from having one of the least competitive corporate taxes in the world to having one of the most competitive. what has changed is the arrival of this chancellor and this government that has put rig taxes taken out of the pockets of hardworking american families, more government spending which adds to the trillions of dollars in debt that will be handed down to the next generation. our friends on the other side of the aisle talk about a balanced approach, but they refuse to even balance their own budget. our vision calls for a stop to washington's failed policies and reckless spending. it says american families and small businesses understand you can't spend more than you take in. you need to balance your budget, and it's time for washington to do the same. this vision seeks to protect the things that we value most, to keep the promises we made to our seniors, to our veterans. i'm the son of a u.s. marine. while at the same time allowing us to leave a better future for our kids and our grandkids, that's the vision i want to work toward and that's why i'm proud to support the house budget committee's proposal which we'll be voting on later this week. this isn't about passing a budget for one year, just one time. this is about creating lasting solutions that help grow our economy the americans people and addresses things that are important to american families. you know, fixing the tax code, lowering the rates means more jobs and higher wages for the american people. voting for this budget means voting for the keystone pipeline. american-made energy means more jobs and lowering energy prices for the marn people. supporting patient-centered reforms means more jobs and lower health care costs for the american people. and protecting and strengthening medicare meeds a secure retirement for older americans. cutting waste means more airness and accountability for hardworking taxpayers. doing this means preserving the american dream, which is what we were sent here to do. we've balanced the budget before. 1997, republican congress working with a democrat president, bill clinton, came together to put the plan that would in fact balance the budget and we did. for four years ran a budget surplus. the president has an opportunity during this critical debate to come forward and to help make this part of his legacy like it has become part of the clinton legacy. working together on be realistically think it's going away any time soon? the republican fantasy budget reduces taxes dramatically without a hint of how it would be possible. without exploding the deficit or dramatically raising taxes on the middle class. this is consistent with what the romney ryan ticket said on the campaign trail last fall. the same issue where they dodged, assembled, and ignored the perfectly reasonable question how is it possible? six months later it's back in the budget but there's still -- but there still is no answer. during the last 40 years there have been only four budgets without deficits. the last three clinton budgets and the one that george bush inherited from bill clinton. in each case taxes as a percentage of the total economy were over 20%. in this republican fantasy land budgets are balanced with revenues at 19% of the economy, yet meeting the needs of 78 million more seniors and a infrastructure deficit that is growing as america is falling apart. clearly this is not remotely possible if we are going to enjoy anything like our current quality of life. there is a real world int as democrats went on record favoring almost $1 trillion in tax increases. little talk about that a later on in the program. for the first 45 minutes of this edition of the washington journal, we are going to be talking about the affordable care act. thirdebrates its anniversary today. it is known as obamacare. we want to find out your thoughts about the affordable care act three years and. here are the numbers, if you want to give us a call -- reach out to also us by social media. you can follow us on twitter, we you canacebook, and send us an e-mail. the address is journal@c- span.org. thatis one of the items came from yesterday's express, the washington post express. the headline -- want to show you and let you listen in to what the president had to say the signing of the affordable care act three years ago, and then we will get to your calls. [video clip] >> it was your work, your commitment come a your unyielding hope that made the surgery possible. when special interests deployed an army of lobbyists, negative ads to preserve the status quo, you did not give up. you hit the phones a . . . . >> it is a tax on new homebuyers. >> i wouldn't say it is a tax. path of continually raising it. you are talking about a piece that was put in place when the mortgage markets were in distress. we are looking at the composition of them including adverse markets and assessing what you're talking about. the overall path we are on is to continue to increase. >> let me ask you about long level price adjustments. they are three percentage point. they make fannie and freddie execution uncompetitive relative to the fha. reducing these fees would make high ltb lows more competitive. do you agree that they are distracting the market and hampering the return of capital? raise them, more we the more we will encourage private capital into this marketplace. 's with the administration intent on winding down fannie and freddie, is it your sincere and honest belief that the private market in and of itself this void? especially considering that 90% -- this is a huge void. 90% of all of the new mortgages are done by freddie and fannie. -- i am notng satisfied that we have something that to raise the road use tax because we don't have enough to build our roads. now road use tax, that really should cause a person to think. that is a user's fee. we pay it in the gas that we buy, and we expect that when that nozzle goes into our tank and when we squeeze the nozzle to buy the gas we watch the dollars and they go up really fast when you see gas that's over four bucks a gallon, we watch those dollars go up on the pump. we also realize between the state and federal government a lot of us are paying 40-plus cents a gallon to build the road that we're wearing out with the gas we put in. that's a user's fee. when i came here and break this down and asked the question, of tax/user rth of gas fee, 18.3 cents a gallon, $1 of that, how much of that actually goes into roads and bridges? and i'll tell you it adds up like this -- then we reduce it a little bit on this number. three cents out of that dollar went for trails for bike trails, snowmobile trails and that sort of thing. 3%. there was a one time $16 million in one of our appropriation bills to do -- to clean graffiti off of the , in terms of what they're doing with budget and taxes and everything else. host: we will talk with april -- reporter on the hill. ,et's go to fredericksburg virginia, republican, also a federal worker. caller: hi. i am with the department of defense, and we have done it numerous options on how to deal with the sequester. the department of defense has been hours with the sequester. it has certainly affected the tempo of our work. i think it is going to severely affect defense workers morale in a lot of ways. this is really ridiculous. both senatorsto from june -- virginia. unless they fix this things, i am not going to vote for them. atm looking very closely how my congressman is handling the situation. anything to doing fix it, i will try and vote him out, also. the congressmen are doing themselves a disservice. host: what is actually happening? you laid out a lot of discussions taking place at your workplace and terms of various scenarios, how things can be handled. a few, what is happening? caller: i am in education, and we have civilians students and military in the same classes. of t . thank god. >> irs. >> jesus loves tax collectors. that is why he accepted the hospitality of tax collectors. they called them publicans. >> if only the border patrol were as feared and effective. >> hispanic america. >> winnable. >> democrats, and gracias. >> chinese cyber attacks. >> democrats, and gracias. >> chinese cyber attacks. >> how can people be so stupid and not know why there are 6000 dead pigs floating through their river? how does that work? >> i would say more threatening than anything happening in the middle east. sorry. >> putin. >> evil, yet hilarious. [laughter] >> bush called him pooty poot. which is embarrassing. he is evil, but -- you have not seen the pictures. >> nra. >> does not represent most gun owners like me who are for president's obama's gun regulations. you have to deal with the reality. >> the only organization working to protect the constitutional right that "the new york times" hates. >> sequester. >> y2k of politics. it came and went, and no one noticed. >> it hasn't gone, and it is so incredibly dumb and it will hurt this country. a totally sel in the unlikely, deep blue state of washington. talkingt door-to-door, about taxes and other items, and they flip them to a fiscally responsible majority, is. -- and they flipped them. the torch of liberty, the constitution in our country, will they perish or last? if we stand and speak for our principles, if we show americans our vision for the future, if we fight for freedom, our country will last. [applause] glasses with a powerful elite? the face ofnk in opposition? or will you stand boldly on principle? patriots, stand with us and fight for freedom, fight for our constitution, fight with us for the rights endowed by our creator, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, fight for a better future, like ronald reagan did, like. paul, michele bachmann, scott walker. tea party patriots around this country do it every day. when you stand and fight, we will stand with you. when they fight on capitol hill, together, we will have their back. we will stand and fight for those who fight for us. fight for freedom. fight for a better future. fight. thank you so much. god bless you. god bless america. night senators voted to eliminate the medical device tax. if you put that in the budget, if it is allowed to come up, it will go through the senate and through the house. ands counterproductive counter prudence in terms of supplying equipment to people whether it be a diabetic or a heart patient. reason why other it's good. i do not doubt that we should spend time -- there are a lot of talks that are being discussed about reaching -- reaching a grand bargaining. you've reached the president with his sleeves rolled up, working with senators of the other party and representatives and they will come to the consensus. wea note for our viewers, were talking about this on friday as the senate is taking of the democrats of budget and there is a marathon session going on. though ahead. >> senator ammann i want to talk about the way these go forward. are you saying it is important to get senators on record for a medical device tax. are there other boats were you want to get senators? is there a better way of doing this goal -- going forward. , it is novel to you because we have n is bad for our entire economy. it reduces tax revenues, productivity, so it is very important week act to address unemployment. i think most people would agree the federal reserve has been fairly active in that regard. in terms of costs, there are a number of different costs. i mention them in my remarks. one that has been recently discussed, the governor brought it up in a speech, the issue of financial stability. financial instability, if it were allowed to be sufficiently serious, would be a threat to jobs and production. given the experience of the past few years, we want to be sure we are not encouraging excessive risk-taking or other problems in the financial markets. we do address that through a number of means, including monitoring the financial system, communication and the like, but this is something colleagues are worried about. >> why not use it as a tool to increase the power? ableain, we have not been to come to an agreement about what guidance we should give an part of the concern is that we go forward and we will have to factor in the efficacy, another issue, and there ,ave tax but neither would balance the budget in 10 years. also the congressional black caucus and the congressional progressive caucus will be introducing budget. it's possible a ryan version could be introduced in the senate. >> what is likely to happen in the senate this week? >> it will be democrats making the case for the patty murray budget. convince someto democratic senators who may not support that budget. they will have to sell it to democratic senators as well as republicans. no republicans are likely to vote for the budget. they will be calling for more spending cuts, no tax increases, balancing the budget sooner. >> republicans say this to be the first time in four years they have agreed to put forward a plan. why is this your difference? are a number of different things. there is a law that was passed that the members of congress will not get paid unless the have a budget resolution. , the debtwo years limit law basically established discretionary spending amounts, so you technically did not need a budget the last couple of years. also, democrats in the senate hav -partisan and bipartisan. someone who is non-partisan says higher taxes no taxes, no big deal. amnesty, deportation, whatever. but i think it's not about people abandoning their principles but finding common ground with people, even if they can't agree on everything, finding some things on which to agree. >> i was just a house member. >> president clickman. >> if anybody else would like a promotionless us know. we have another half an hour. >> members of congress as congressman talks about get elected to represent a district. we could have a long conversation about redistricting and about how in most states in this country if you are elected in a seat that is overwhelmingly a democrat or republican you are never going to lose that seat unless you compromise with somebody on the other side. but two people get elected by everybody in the united states. it seems to be i know this is something you've thought about given your time in the president. a president of the united states has a unique role to reach out to both sides in congress. without getting into a current events debate, i think we can agree an amendment the medicalveal device tax in the 2010 health care law. again, the debate is underway. we caught up with a capitol hill reporter for inside information on the budget proposals in the house and senate. among the amendments they have debated and .ost: let's talk about the cr guest: congress is saying at least for today we avoided a showdown. the senate has passed it, the house passed it yesterday, and what it does is continue what we have seen from government funding. this is the era that we live in. rds that disagree on the way spending and taxes should go -- parties that disagree on the way spending and taxes should go. it keeps the sequester in place , although it does gives -- give .ome flexibility basically, it keeps in place what we thought we already had, which is a working government, sequester, and the ongoing pay freeze for federal workers. host: is the sequester here to i am starting to think that it has to be. twos harder to see how the sides reach an agreement when the democrats say let's replace half of it with taxes and republicans do not want that. i do not think de . that means more debt, fewer jobs, and much higher taxes from the american people. we hope the president will change his mind and submit a plan that balances the budget. let's be clear, democrats in this town who reject the goal of balancing the budget are out of step. the american people know you cannot continue to spend money you do not have. i did not come here for a federal tight -- fancy title. i want to hand my kids and grandkids the same shot at the american dream that i had, not some mountain of debt. that is why republicans are working to balance the federal budget. been talk about the budget here. thatu think budgets -- they are essentially political weapons -- [indiscernible] have they just become weapons, because at the end of the day they are not binding? ofa budget is a statement each party's vision and terms of how they would cover and what they think the appropriate role of the federal government is. the house has done its part today. hopefully the senate will finish their budgets in. i would hope we can have a conversation between the chambers to see if we cannot come to versus losing everything including the committee's tax base. while it does not factor in the worst possible scenarios but could still be damages across the gulf coast and northeast or the standards have been applied. ice storms showed that the elevation requirement reserves housing in homes for people to return to after the storm. there are not built to that level. that applies to the building codes. what about the insurance market's? >> is provided by the flood insurance program. if you are not elevated beyond the national flood insurance program, go into this will be a very expensive proposition to people. they will get a discounted rate .howing the reduce risks this will price many people to these decisions. >> do you have any estimates so far of how much the cost of the disaster is going to be borne by private insurance versus state governments versus that no government? they have not chosen for homeowners. it is preposterous of the cost. it was borne by the tax payer. would be the numbers that would be done by the private sector. >> one of the critical things craig has said is they are raising a lot of money. in their own cases, it is their own money and it is not tax deductible. sylvester both mcmonkey mcbean and the star- part of aeetches are privileged class. the analogy in the case of mass incarceration, the privileged class of folks who are not as worried at about being incarcerated. middle toe iddle to -- upper class, wealthy, white, you're not as worried about being stopped, frist, incarcerated but there are groups that benefit even more among the privileged class. i think about the corporate contract that provides prisons with all the have. everybody from victoria's secret to dell computers have had private contract in prison that benefit from the prison complex. there is a certain group within the privileged class that benefit financially. in many00 cases to keep one person incarcerated. we all live in a state of fear so we opted that cost -- so we all pay that cost well as small percentage of the privilege to reap the profits financially. forave you done the show kids? communicateway to this to children? >> yes, last week. we had high-school students at a thea and bipartisan. someone says lower taxes, no big deal. amnesty, whatever. i think that is a critically important one. it is not about people abanding their principles but finding a way to work together on a common ground. >> i was just a house member. it is fine if you want to put me there. >> if anybody would like a promotion let us know we have nother half an hour. congressman, members of congress get elected to represent a district. should anyone want to about redistricting and about show many states that if you're elected that are overwhelming republican or democrat that you're never going to lose that seat. unless you compromise on the other side of the aisle but remarkably get elected by the entire country. so the president of the united states republican or democrat, it seems to be and i know you have thought a lot about give your time in the tab cabinet. the president of the united states has a unique role to reach out to both sides. without getting into a current evens debate, i think we can agree the president in which this library was named, president reagan, and the last stop of this that builds the power structure. in a state like the united states, the population pays taxes and the government is accountable and that system is not there in iraq. whoever oversees oil seizes power. that is a major factor in conditioning the mentality of the group that rules. they put their hand on that and they will not let that go. coming back to the sunnis, i remember growing up in a country where the sectarian divisions were not really relevant. we did not who was sunni or shia. a sectarian policies of saddam's regime and the oppression he imposed on the shia, this sense of being persecuted was strong -- shia.he snia. the opportunity came, there was a segment, the islamists, who were thinking now, we have got it, we will never let it go. it will be a shia government. that put the sunnis a difficult position, and in the early days they brokered the political cottedf the polit aical process. that did not work. they then joined in it. that is not working. now they are caught in a difficult position. they do not want to go to the extreme where al qaeda is because they get th . it may play out over the decades in a tax on traditional religious believers. qualify for can you a grant or a scholarship? can you get a government job if you hold this position that is suddenly declared bigotry? it would be very contentious and divisive process. i agree that it might well play out in a very different way in the role it has played out. >> audience, next chance for questions. >> wow. >> let me get this out there. whalen, get the sense from seeing the amount of young people in the room that he may be in the minority, just guessing. i am glad you here. young people do not see what is the issue. that said some people may even say what is the big deal about getting married but that is another radical thing i will i get into. >> we'll have 10 minutes. >> you talked a lot about tradition and a radical notion. how does this relate to the loving versus virginia? my question is for paul smith. what is the primary purpose of the petrol government incentivizing marriage in the first place for anyone? if same-sex couples can show they're able to fulfil the purpose, what a special or which we were able to put a stop to, and enterprise utilizing networked to undertake a tax -- networks to undertake a tax. -- attacks. we have done a number of things in conjunction with the secret service, nsa, because many cyber attacks originate from overseas. those have been successful. the one point i would make is that we tend to think and discuss in the beltway about protecting our networks from attacks, forgetting that behind every keyboard is an individual. aserrents is more -- is important as everything else. yes, you have to protect your databases, but those persons that are trying to get in have to go to jail. people have to understand that there is a price to be paid for breaking the law when it comes to cyber intrusions. that is something we are focused on, identifying the persons behind those keyboards, and making certain that if they undertake a tax, they will not undertake another in the future. >> i will yield back. >> would it make sense to double or increase the penalty for people involved in a cyber attacks? >> i think we ought to look at the penalty structure, yes exercise because for example last night 79 or 76 senators voted to eliminate the medical device tax. if you vote on that in the budget, when that amendment if it is ever allowed to come up it will go through the senate and it will go through the house and we'll actually change that because it is counter productive and counter prudent in terms of supplying equipment to people whether it be a diabetic or congestive heart patient or other patients. so that is the other reason why it is good. i don't doubt that we need to spend some time and there is a lot of talk going on which are being discussed at this time about reaching a grand bargain. and the way you reach a grand bargain is you reach the president with his sleeves rolled up working with senators of the other party and representatives of the other party and building a consensus and then bringing his team along. >> and i should note that we are talking on this friday as the senate is taking up the senate democrat's budget and there is a marathon voting session going on on this day. >> and senator i want to talk a ittle bit about the way the supply of electricity, improving the tax system, strengthening the ability to enforce contracts will all lift india's ranking and spur business growth in a way that has been missing thus far. largelyia's economy is based on global supply chains, it is absolutely critical for india to enact reforms and liberalize its economy, to tap into this regional market. this is how india anchors itself in the asia-pacific region and we should do what we can to help leverage those reforms inside india. that is why i believe the administration must redouble its efforts to secure a u.s.india bilateral investment treaty. current negotiations are proceeding far too slowly. there are important issues to resolve and it's going to take a concerted effort to make progress, but once the b.i.t. is firmly in place, the u.s. should work with india on a free trade agreement that will foster more trade. we should also work with india on high-tech visas where both of our countries jointly benefit. i strongly believe that where goods and services cross borders, armies do not. if this isn't motivation enough, let's c , but on domestic policy, the tax cuts and so on. here is a clip and a little bit 8:48:58:09pm of a roast one night at the press club. well, i am flattered to be here following jack and talking about bob novak and the two people in journalism who i learned the most from and admired the most over the years. >> i spent the last few days doing the exhausting job of reading bob novak columns, going back many, many years, it was time-consuming, not very exhilarating and i discovered that bob after reading your columns, so many of them, i have dom the conclusion that your words will be remembered long after shakespeares are forgotten. but not until then. >> what did you the 506-page plus book was ever written in washington? it may be the best book. i can think of one better. i will get to that in a moment. because, and when we get young people, interns, and young reporters at "the weekly standard", i tell them. read bob novak's book because it will tell you are more about american politics and washington over the last 50 years than >> one of the things that he did that i had never seen before was he told of the ones that you think you are exempt from tax >> i'm not sure what the individuals or -- exempt from? individualsure what rules you're talking about. we were created as an organization that was not title 5, the normal employment rules there. we have been in discussions about other opportunities for employees. i would have to look at in detail what you are referring to. >> i will get to that list. i will also get to a letter detailing the complaints are received from my local agents as i walked through the airport now is turning into -- airport. now it is turning into e-mails and upon calls about harassment and retaliation. water was 3 years old for tsa officers. it was visibly dirty. that i think is an unacceptable treatment for people who are really working very hard and who are partners with us. i will get you a list. i do not want to take any more time. i would like a response to those negatives. recognizes thew ranking minority member, mr. thompson, for any question he may have. mr. pistole, last congress, this committee identified a security gap that would allow an individual on wolves who aspire to undertake a tax. we have been relatively successful in utilizing the same investigative tools that we utilize for public corruption cases, white-collar criminal cases, in terms of obtaining the cooperation of people come in terms of utilizing surveillance, whether it be wiser or physical surveillance, for instance, in identifying the persons who present these projects -- threats. thwart theo attacks. the harder it becomes to identify the individuals, because they're not reaching out to anybody else, which would enable us to identify and alert them. if so it is an increasing trend. we have been relatively successful. my hope is that our traditional techniques will continue to give us some success in this arena. shifting just a little bit from that, does the recent legalization of marijuana in colorado and washington state in the trend we are seeing, how fbi'shat impact on the and the dea, indirectly? you are involved in these cases. >> we do very little. we still participate in task forces and the like. i'm really not certain what if any impact it would have planned attacks and plans to engage in a tax is reviewable, but eminence is not reviewable. as i understand eminence as defined by this administration and set forth in the white paper is not an up-to-the-minute assessment of whether someone poses an immediate threat, but rather it is a categorical persons tot certain fit this category by definition pose an imminent threat to us. isn't that equally subject to ?udicial review the second question is, if we put aside for, and having an internal executive process, what about having a devil's advocate position? you will not always have harold ae, but you could always have defined institutional role, somebody whose job is to defend life, at least in terms of what has been leaked thus far, we are relying on harold coe. he is gone. we are hoping somebody else might be sensitive to those concerns. with that not make a more robust process? >> i have a couple of responses. experience as bit gc for the department of defense for four years, the application of what i think we would consider imminence is not necessarily what you would assume fro is table e united states is ashley united states is able to disengage even more in terms of tax dollars and present -- presence. to help in the recovery efforts of that country because we bombed the heck out of them. we destroyed the country. until we get to that point, then we are going to have to be , in many ways, invested in iraq, but only in a very limited sense. that is our duty, i think, as americans, but i would hope we would focus more on nationbuilding at home, economic security for our veterans. i would hope we would look at how to create jobs, preserve medicare, medicaid, and social security. i think those are the critical issues we have to turn to in our own country to make sure that americans achieve the american dream. when you look at poverty rates, for example. we need a national strategy to eliminate poverty. i'm working on that with many members now in the house of representatives. there is much work to do here. host: congresswoman barbara lee , inc. for talking to our viewers. i'm delighted to be here. host: coming up, we will talk to doug collins of colorado. later, . as a result we are more competitive. from low income to the high tax brackets, everyone is benefiting. the future's bright but only if we educate the half truths and begin telling the real story of america's natural gas revolution. the stories about technology, private sector innovation, investment, financial risk, thousands of new jobs, new competition, new growth, a growing and better standard of living for more americans, lower energy costs, new industries, a revitalized energy sector, more jobs, more growth, energy security and optimism. this is the story of america's natural gas revolution. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the entleman's time has expired. for what purpose does the gentlelady from illinois seek recognition? >> i ask unanimous consent to address the house for one minute and to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentlelady is recognized for ne minute. >> mr. speaker, the ryan budget once again places the burden of deficit reduction on working americans while failing to stop the frivolous spending of oil subsidies for of being lawyers and finish their college education. i got a serious -- a series of tax messages from them to promote a campaign to organize that we supported, very much focused on bringing attention to special needs of women in conflict. we take this seriously globally. in a rapeso brought kits and counselors. it is important after a sexual assault to get treatment. we are working with partners to provide special counseling for the many children who are affected by this who are traumatized now. this has impact for the rest of your life to go through this. many children are being caught in the crossfire. it is brutal. want to say might something about the particular plight of women in refugee camps. with groups inng jordan and turkey to ensure that aid is provided to women -- and girls who have suffered and fled syria. we have heard very credible reports that one of the things they are fleeing from israel. we arerefugee camp, --ing fund in refunding funding. >> there was an article which appeared in the national review recently. it was entitled, the silent exodus of serious christians. it Excerpts 0 to 51 of about 65 results. Click for next 13 results (Some duplicates have been removed) Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)	http://archive.org/details/tv?time=20130318-20130326&q=tax&fq=channel:%22CSPAN%22	<urn:uuid:24f0ccef-0731-4ba6-8421-7358e429a108>	en	0.973431	0.042934
Take the 2-minute tour × If you were to design a programming language, how would you do it? What features would you put in? What would you leave out? Statically or dynamically typed? Strongly or weakly typed? Compiled or interpreted? Justify your answers. share\|improve this question This question is too vague. Language features can't really be discussed until the purpose of the language is determined. – blucz Sep 25 '10 at 9:04 I would create a very high-level language with one method: public void DoWhatIMeant(); – Dave Oct 6 '10 at 18:16 the ideal programming language?... I would get the compiler to read my mind and generate a program exactly how i want it..:) might take a while but it would be worth it. – WalterJ89 Oct 7 '10 at 17:05 Compilation and interpretation are traits of ... well, the compiler or interpreter (duh), not the language. All languages can be implemented by a compiler or an interpreter. And in fact, pretty much all of them are. There are compilers for Ruby, Python, ECMAScript, PHP, there are interpreters for C, C++, Java, Haskell, ... – Jörg W Mittag Jun 7 '11 at 23:51 show 5 more comments closed as not constructive by Yannis Rizos Feb 25 '12 at 3:15 15 Answers • I definitely think that functional programming languages will catch on, so my language will be functional. See Taming Effects with Functional Programming • I think the CPUs soon will have hundreads of cores, and threads will he a hell to manage. So the Actor Model is a must instead of threads. See Erlang - software for a concurrent world • I also think that OOP has failed, the communication between objects was assumed to be asynchronous. So I think we need message passing, with immutable messages. Send and Forget. As in the Actor model. See Object Oriented Programming: The Wrong Path? • I think that it would be good to have static typing, so errors are catched earlier in the development cycle. But I would use type inference as in Haskell, so that the developer don't need to write the type everywhere in the code as in C, C# and Java. See Learn You A Haskell for Great Good • I would also design a great UI library, with declarative layout, as in WPF and Android. But I would like to have it as in Functional Reactive Programming. So my language would be like the concurrency in Erlang but with the typing as in Haskell and a GUI framework as in WPF.NET. share\|improve this answer sounds like Scala, actually, except for maybe the great UI library. – Ape-inago Dec 6 '10 at 8:03 I thought scala had message passing and actors. I guess I don't how that relates to OOP. – Ape-inago Dec 6 '10 at 13:07 @Jonas: looks great :) I don't know much about the Actor Model, is it similar to what Go did with the goroutines ? – Matthieu M. Dec 20 '10 at 12:08 @Ape-inago: Yes, I think Scala is close to this except a great UI library that I'm missing. So you are right. – Jonas Feb 4 '11 at 9:21 The only thing I'm skeptical about is static typing. I'd definitely prefer strong instead of weak typing, but sometimes static typing is too restrictive. But I'm not familiar with Haskell, and I've heard only good things about its typing system :) – faif Jan 29 '12 at 19:24 show 4 more comments Note: I've used C-like syntax to describe features in this post, but I'm not picky about the syntax itself as long as it's not something ridiculous like all keywords being CAPS. 1. Typing system The number one feature that I would want in a language is static typing with optional dynamic typing. The reason is that static typing allows you to a) catch errors early rather than late and b) most code is implicitly statically typed, whether or not the language makes the distinction. However, there are several use-cases where dynamic typing is extremely useful. For example, when reading data from a file, you often have fields of varying types, and dynamic typing makes heterogeneous containers easy. So, my ideal language would have something like this: //variable declarations int anInt = 42 //anInt is now irrevocably an integer and assigning another type to it is an error vartype aVariable = 42 //aVariable is currently an integer, but any type can be assigned to it in the future //function definitions int countElements(Collection c) return c.count(); //c HAS to be a collection, since countElements doesn't make sense otherwise void addToCollection(Collection& c, vartype v) //c is passed by reference here 2. Compiled vs. Interpreted I'd like the language to be either compiled ahead of time, or JIT compiled, but not purely interpreted, speed being the reason. This ties in to point 1, since an optimising compiler/jitter will have a much easier time optimising statically typed code, and dynamically typed code could simply be left as-is. 3. Closures The language must support functional programming constructs, and functions should be first-class objects. 4. Object-oriented The language should allow you to write object-oriented code, but simple imperative code should be allowed too. i.e., it should be possible to write a hello world program like so: int main(string<> args=null) printf("hello, world"); return 0; // this code also demonstrates two other features, // default arguments for functions (not explained further) // and immutable lists like string<> (see 6. Built-in datatypes) 5. Namespaces Namespaces are a good thing. Very little stuff should go into the global namespace. But if you must put stuff in the global namespace, you can (ala C++). 6. Built-in datatypes The language must have, as built-in datatypes, the following constructs: • An int datatype or types. If there is only one int type, it should have unlimited range. If there are more, there should be implicit upcasting into the smallest type capable of holding the result of a computation, with the unlimited range type being the largest. • A single built-in binary float type, which is equivalent to an IEEE 754 double • A mutable list type which is implemented as either a doubly linked list or a block of contiguous memory holding pointers to each element • An immutable list type that acts like an array but whose size cannot be changed after creation • Mutable and immutable string types, with the default being immutable. • A map or dict type that is mutable, and holds immutable keys and mutable and/or immutable values. • The built-in collection types should be homogeneous typed by default, but can be vartyped if required • A boolean type • A null or none type that can be assigned to a variable of any type. • Mutable and immutable set types • A decimal type which implements decimal floating point variables • A fixed type, that implements a fixed-point number The decimal, float and fixed types should share the exact same public interface (either via inheritance or duck typing), allowing them to be transparently passed to and returned from functions. The parent type could be called real. 7. Call by value and by reference You should be able to call functions by both value and reference, with the default being value (i.e., a copy of the argument is made and operated upon in the function). 8. Pointers The language should have pointers and allow pointer arithmetic. Pointers can only be statically typed (to avoid the nightmare that is a void*). vartype pointers are explicitly disallowed. Having pointers and pointer arithmetic allows the language to be seriously used as a systems programming language. 9. Inline assembly In connection with 8., The language should allow inline assembly language code for those situations where it is necessary. 10. Safety The language should be mostly safe to use, supporting exception handling etc. Pointer arithmetic and inline assembly can be relegated to portions of the code explicitly marked as unsafe. Unsafe code is allowed, but strongly discouraged. 11. Undefined behaviour The language standard should specify how the program is to behave under all circumstances except in code explicitly marked unsafe, i.e., there should be no undefined behaviour outside of unsafe blocks. This allows the language to be used as a viable application development language, while still allowing you to say, write an OS in it. That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'll edit/update the post as I think of more things. share\|improve this answer Take a look of "D Programming Language": digitalmars.com/d – Lorenzo Sep 2 '10 at 18:14 As far as I can remember, D doesn't have optional dynamic typing or a built-in unlimited range integer type. The integer type isn't so much of a problem, but the lack of optional dynamic typing makes it quite unattractive. – Chinmay Kanchi Sep 2 '10 at 19:36 I would really add a decimal type here. – configurator Sep 22 '10 at 0:47 “A null or none type that can be assigned to a variable of any type.” — Including boolean? :-p – Timwi Oct 3 '10 at 18:36 I don't see "flexible" in the original post. Inline Assembler would not pop into my mind as top requirement for a programming language. Maybe that's according to the Felix von Leitner nowadays writing Assembler mostly gives you slow incorrect results. – LennyProgrammers Dec 20 '10 at 12:46 show 6 more comments This is how my dream programming language would look like: • A powerful static type system with some support for dependent typing. • Optional dynamic typing. • Numeric Tower a la Lisp but statically typed. • Macros a la Lisp. • Primarily a Functional Programming language with basic support for imperative programming (like ML family). • Garbage collection. • Type inference. • Continuations. • Optional lazy semantics. • All the control constructs would be provided in the form of library functions. (This can be made possible using last two features.) • Minimal syntax (not as little as Lisps, but something of the sort of Ioke/Seph.) share\|improve this answer Sounds good. I haven't really seen a good way to do statically type-safe macros, though. – Jörg W Mittag Dec 6 '10 at 2:42 @Jörg: Nemerle? – missingfaktor Dec 6 '10 at 4:04 +1 for numeric tower and continuations. – one-zero-zero-one Dec 6 '10 at 5:54 In Smalltalk all the control structures are actually methods, and it doesn't use continuations in their implementation. One is not needed for the other. – Oak Jan 29 '12 at 9:42 @Oak, can you implement's Python's yield in Smalltalk? Should be as clean to use. – missingfaktor Jan 29 '12 at 9:46 show 6 more comments I would have designed it pretty much like C#, but Microsoft beat me to it. :) (Except of course that mine would have been less well thought through and more amateur.) I don’t mind much whether it is compiled or interpreted, so I don’t need to justify that bit. As regards to strong static typing, I find it hard to appreciate why this even requires justification. Static typing is a feature which catches bugs during compile-time. Dynamic typing is the lack of that feature and defers the bugs until runtime. In my personal experience I had few use-cases where dynamic dispatch made sense and was useful, so the convolutions I had to go through in C# before 4.0 to get it were easily justified then. With C# 4.0 I don’t even need to justify that anymore because we have dynamic dispatch now. However, I probably would have created a new syntax instead of sticking as religiously to old C syntax as C# did. The switch statement is particularly horrible, and I also dislike the cast syntax (it is the wrong way around). I don’t make a big fuss about the details of syntax though, so I don’t need to justify it in detail, except that I wouldn’t want it as verbose as Visual Basic. What else would you like me to justify? share\|improve this answer +1 Good answer! I'll post up one of my own later as well. – Chinmay Kanchi Sep 2 '10 at 16:56 C# is a powerful language, but the syntax is often messy. I think this is because so many of these features weren't in the original design. – Casebash Sep 2 '10 at 21:16 Hence "4.0", I guess. – Mark C Oct 3 '10 at 18:08 add comment Well here's a list of features I'd put in: Lisp like syntax Lisp style • Easily extendable syntax. Ever tried to implement a foreach loop in C? It's not exactly easy. (Mind you, I have done it). • Homoiconicity. You can simply (eval "your data files") • Nested polish notation is often hard to read Functional Programming Haskell style • Easy concurrency, all code is thread safe. • Difficult to implement side effects in pure functional code, though monads seem to do a good job. Strong dynamic typing Python style • Dynamic typing makes clean readable code, Strong typing can eliminate type errors Allow function overloading based on types, similar to CL's defgeneric: (define (+ (a <int>) (b <int>)) (ints-add a b)) (define (+ (a <string>) (b <string>)) (string-concat a b)) (define (+ a b) (add-generic a b)) Compilable and Interpretable • Performance boost if compiled (usually true, not always) • Can limit features in the language, llvm would be a good backed though. Systems programming C style • Appeals to a, very slightly, wider range of users. • Easier for applications, kernel and device drivers to interact if they're all written in the same language • Limits the abstractions in the language, dynamic typing is often not suitable. Hygienic macros (CL style and Scheme style) • Easy to extend the language, especially with Lispy™ syntax • I've said this before, haven't I? • Not many if done with Lispy™ syntax Come to think of it, this more or less defines scheme, except for the compilation and systems programming bit. That can be worked around by using libguile and writing those bits in C. share\|improve this answer Take a look at Ioke and Seph. It's amazing how much more easily readable a language can get by adding just a teensy amount of syntax compared to S-Expressions and still have the full macro capabilities. (Basically, instead of "every function call is a list and lists are first-class" it's "everything is a message send and message chains are first class". Instead of a list whose car is the function and cdr is the arguments, you have an object whose name field is the method and whose arguments field is the arguments. And instead of nesting, you have prev and next pointer fields.) – Jörg W Mittag Dec 6 '10 at 2:41 Sounds pretty much exactly like Clojure (assuming you use Mjolnir for native code generaltion on LLVM for the systems programming part - github.com/halgari/mjolnir) – mikera Oct 22 '13 at 1:30 add comment There are several languages out there that I consider pretty damn good (C# being my current favorite). Since this is my fantasy language, here's what I really want it to have: • Kick-ass official api documentation. The Java API is good like this, and C#/.NET is pretty good. Ruby/Rails is pretty terrible here. • Kick-ass official general documentation (how-to's, common uses, lots of example code). C#/.Net is good for this. • A huge community of blog-based documenters and StackOverflow problem solvers to help me out of tough spots • A wide range of well-supported, well-documented, and powerful plugins/libraries/extensions (Ruby/Rails has 'powerful' but neither of the other two). • Is reasonably stable- no changing everything to break most existing code on an annual basis (looking at you, Ruby/Rails). • Isn't too stable- is able to adapt to advances in language design (looking at you, c++) share\|improve this answer "Kick-ass documentation" points should include PHP :D – Corey Dec 25 '10 at 6:30 add comment Compiler hints I'm talkin out of me bum since I don't know that much about language design, but I think the feature I'm talking about is called hints in other languages. Compiler hints, maybe? I don't know if I read this in a Perl6 draft or was just high at the time, but I imagine a language where everything by default is loosy goosy and automagical. But if you wanted to really crank out performance and say, hey, this value is always an integer or it's never null, or this can be parallel, or this is stateless, things like that... That the compiler could automatically go to town on these specifically marked areas. E: I'd appreciate comments clarifying what I'm asking for or citing examples where this already exists. share\|improve this answer You can do some of this in Common Lisp. For example, you can tell the compiler that i is a reasonably-sized integer. One useful thing is that, by varying the safety and speed values, you can often either have the compiler check and enforce (to find problems) or assume what you say is true (and compile faster code). – David Thornley Oct 7 '10 at 20:11 add comment To try new ideas: I would make a dynamic-typed functional programming language, it allows you to do all the statement expression tricks and the simplest lambda syntax with pattern matching. Off-side rule enabled. // a view pattern (or Active Pattern in F#) default = \def val: !!val.Type val def // usage of the pattern greet = \name<(default "world") `and` hasType Str>: p "Hello, \{name}!" (p "Enter your name", .input).greet // (, ) is a sequence expression, returning the last value Here is an explanation: default = sets the storage, \def val begins a curried function with two arguments, val.Type is same as Type[val], !! converts to boolean, and boolean can be applied, so val and def are after it. f x = f[x] = x.f .f = f[] and in greet, it used name<(default "world")andhasType Str>, it means the pattern default "world" will be used and bound to name. The default pattern specifies a default value. and is another pattern that chains two patterns together. the default pattern can't fail while hasType can fail. In that case, it throws an exception. Variables are actually storages, which can be functionally passed, and storage tables can be references, created and destroyed as scopes change. Hashes and such will be like in Lua and JavaScript's. If I'm going to make a compiled language, I'm going to make an F# for Java, with Haskell-like features. It's a pure functional language, except there is a feature that mixes Quotations and Comp Exprs together to achieve imperative programming by writing pseudocode-like blocks. share\|improve this answer It sounds a little bit like Erlang, a dynamic typed functional programming language and added to that a quite unique concurrent language constructs. – Jonas Sep 24 '10 at 14:49 add comment Bearing in mind that the only languages I know are PHP and javascript, and that I really should learn a few more before designing a language: Syntax: Think carefully about function names and argument order (i.e., be less messy than PHP). Features: Have a set of string functions, which operate on variables as a series of bytes, but don't understand text, and a set of text functions, which understand lots of encodings and can operate on UTF-8 and other multibyte strings. (And have encoding sanity checks built into the language, with a function like text.isValidEncoding(text, encoding) which will tell you if a byte sequence is malformed and unsafe to treat as text. I think I like the idea of strong static typing, but I've never used it, so I can't really say. share\|improve this answer add comment Before designing a programming language, I would find a good answer to the question: why do we need yet another programming language? Rosetta Code at the time of this writing lists 344 languages. If none of those met my needs, the specifics of why they didn't would determine the starting point (languages that come the closest) and what would be added to it. If I won the lottery and for some reason had nothing better to do, I would start with Liskell and make it a full-fledged language as opposed to a GHC front-end, then make FFI easier (and automated) so I could use any C/C++ library. share\|improve this answer add comment A good language is a language which is: • easy to reason about (no obscure syntax) • let you express your ideas with minimum distortion • hide the nitty gritty details from you (optimization / resources management) • easily parallelizable (multiple cores, distributed computing) It's pretty hard to turn this into a list of features, but I think Functional Programming, despite not feeling natural, is closer to this than imperative programming (especially in hiding the nitty gritty details) • C-interfacing: C is the lingua franca of programming languages and the number of libraries developped in C is amazing. By having an easy interface (like Python) to C, the language automatically benefits from all those libraries and it also allows to send heavy-tasks that could not be optimized enough to a close to metal language. • Distributed: I like Go's take at multi-threading, with lightweight routines that the runtime dispatches on threads depending on their activity. Such a language encourages the programmer to reason about tasks and to isolate them from one another. • Garbage Collection: goes without saying nowadays ;) • Immutable: much easier to reason about something that can never mutate, much easier to implement multithreading / distributed computing too (you only need synchronization to handle the lifetime, which is the compiler task) • Lambdas: goes with first class functions I guess • Message Passing: immutability means no mutex, therefore we follow Tony Hoares' suggestion • Modules: somewhat similar to namespaces, but with better encapsulation • Reflexion: distributed computation requires serialization, which should be left to the compiler, and deserialization is more easily achieved with some form of reflexion. • Static Strong Typing: the earlier an error is detected, the least it costs At the moment, the language closer to this list is probably Haskell, though: • it lacks Routines: I have not seen a natural way to express parallelism in Haskell yet (though it may be my ignorance...) • it's got an Obscure Syntax: somehow it looks like Haskell programmers thrive on using weird operators rather than words. It may seem slick, but it doesn't help much to understand what's going on. share\|improve this answer add comment To your first question, "how would you do it" - short answer, I wouldn't. I don't have enough parser/compiler theory to pull that off. But I have been programming for 25 years, so I do have some ideas and opinions to share. First off, I would try to come up with an OOP approach that lets you create truly connected models. What I mean by that is, models are one of the most important things in almost any kind of programming project - it's always a lot of grunt-work and continuous refactoring to get it right, and I blame that on a lack of real connectivity in OO languages. Permit me to demonstrate. Let's say a class House has a Door property. var door = house.Door; You now have a local variable with a reference to the Door instance. But consider what just happened: You just ripped the Door off the House, and now you're quite happy passing the Door around, and the rest of your code is ignorant of the fact that this Door is actually attached to a House. To me, this is fundamentally wrong. And yes, I know, this is "easily" fixed on a case-by-case basis - in this case by maintaining a reverse reference from every Door to the House it's currently attached to. This of course opens your model to errors, since it's now your duty to accurately maintain two reverse references, so you make the House.Doors and Door.House properties private, and you add methods like House.AddDoor(), House.RemoveDoor(), Door.SetHouse() etc. and wire it all up, and unit-test it to make sure it actually works. Isn't this starting to sound like a lot of work to model such a straight-forward relationship? A lot of code to maintain? A lot of code to refactor as the model evolves? The problem is pointers. Every OO language I've seen, inherently suffers from the fact that an object-reference is really a pointer, because that's what computers use. Pointers are not a good way to model the real world. Regardless of what world you're trying to model, it's almost guaranteed that any relationships in that world are going to be two-way relationships. Pointers point in one direction only. I would like to see a language where the fundamental data-model is a graph - where all relationships, by default, have two ends. This would almost certainly provide a much more natural fit for modeling the real world, which is really the only thing we need computers for in the first place. (that and video games.) I have no idea what syntax for such a language would look like, or whether it can even conceivably be expressed using text. (I've wondered if such a language would have to be graphical, somehow...) I would also like to see all forms of accidental state eliminated. For example, in web-development, we spend a lot of time shaping data from databases, into business-models, into view-models for presentation... then some of that data is presented on forms, which is really just another transformation... and state comes back from form-posts, and then we reshape that data and project it back onto the view-model, e.g. view-model binders and such... we then project from the view-model back onto the business-model... we then use object-relational mappers (or grunt work) to transform the data from the view-model and project it onto a relational database... Is this starting to sound redundant? At what point during all of this madness did we really accomplish anything useful? And by useful I mean, something tangible - something the end-user can understand and cares about. At the end of the day, the hours you spent actually building something the users can even understand, are really the only hours well spent. Everything else is side-effects. I would want a highly dynamic language. The write/compile/run-cycle is a tedious waste of time. Ideally, the language should just figure out what changed, and compile/load transparently, in the background, as needed. Ideally, you shouldn't even have to hit "run" - things should happen on-screen, as you make changes, immediately reflecting the changes you make. The problem with the write/compile/run-cycle, or even for that matter the more direct write/run-cycle, is that you're too disconnected from what you're doing - in order to feel connected with our work, we need immediate feedback, instant results. Any wait is too long! Again, I don't even know if this could be accomplished with a traditional IDE, or if this would require an entirely new kind of interface. You should be able to use a mix of weak and strong typing, whatever is most suitable for the problem you're working on. State in general should be something the language fully manages for you. Why should you need to rely on a database for persistence? Ideally, I'd like to be able to simply specify the life-term of any variable in the model: one web-request, one session, 24 hours, permanently. Why do we have to choose between a whole array of storage solutions for different media and life-terms? - not to mention transforming and shaping the data to fit each media; browser cache, database, memory, disk, who cares! Data is data. Where you store your data (and for how long) should be a simple choice, not a battle against the Gods! Well, good luck with that. share\|improve this answer add comment It would probably be a multi paradigm language, supporting the following: • Structured/procedural programming • Object oriented programming • Functional programming Why these? Object oriented because it is a great way to organize large programs, especially for organizing the data. Structured because you don't always want/need that (OOP), people should have choice. Functional because it makes it easy for programmers to debug and it makes programs more clear. I would use Python's model with indented blocks to mark code blocks. It is very clen and nice to read. I would steal quite many ideas from Python actually because Python is a very nice language. I would take it's for statement and I would copy its maps, list and tuples. Now, I would probably not take the dynamic concepts from Python: for one thing, it would probably be explictly and statically typed. I think programs become more clear with that. The variables would probably all be objects with methods, then you could do something like str.length() to get the length of a string. In function definitions, you would have to specify the return type and the types of the arguments (supporting some kind of generic types as well). Let's go back to copying from Python ;-). I love it's way to have optional procedure arguments so I would probably have that. Python doesn't however support procedure overloading, I would want that. Let's look at classes, I would ditch multiple inheritance; to easy to abuse. I would implement private and similar scopes and I would probably implement that the way it is done in C++. I would also have abstract classes and interfaces; I don't believe Python has that. It would support inner classes, in fact, I would want a very powerful object oriented language. It would probably be interpreted. It is possible to get it really fast using good JIT compilation (I would want a fast language, though programmer productivity would come first) and compilation is just bad for productivity at many times. Interpreted languages also promote platform independance, something which matters more and more for each day. It would have builtin Unicode support; these days internationalization matters a lot. It would definitely be garbage collected. Damn I hate doing the memory management myself; not good for productivity either. Finally, it would have a good standard library. Wow, just realized how much I really love Python. share\|improve this answer Why Interpreted languages also promote platform independance? I guess there are more cross-platform interpreters rather compilers (percentage), but couldn't figure out why this sentence should be true? I think there is no difference between them at all, regarding cross-platform abilities. – Mahdi Oct 17 '12 at 12:00 add comment First of all, I would buy a few books on compilers, a few standards, and take a course or two in languages and compilers. I'd contribute PEPs and visit C++ standards committee meetings. I'd contribute patches to the compilers I use, hopefully both for features and bugs. Then I'd go back and look in horror at this list that I've come up now, which is of what directions I'd go in with a language if I started right now: • Functional, because I currently am not well-versed in any functional languages and making one would be a great way to learn one. In case it doesn't follow directly: everything is constant. • I'd fill it with as much Type Inference as I could fit in it, but with the option to specify interfaces explicitly. Not sure about other types. This doubles up as all functions being generic by default. • As you may have guessed, with Interfaces; that is, with types that only provide promises on available operations. • Saying whether the language is strongly or weakly typed isn't very meaningful in this case, as far as I can tell. I would call it strongly typed, as things never change what interfaces they implement. • It would have a lot of Design by Contract support. Again, as much as I can fit: preconditions and postconditions are a must; I don't know how much invariants matter when it comes to functional programming. • While I'm at it, I'd take a look at languages where you can formally prove correctness and see if I can pick up anything from there. • I would go out and write an awesome testing library. Even in case I fail to make it awesome, I'll at least spend a considerable amount of time working on it as I think it's something every language should have. • As for the syntax, the language would either have significant whitespace and look a lot like Python, or it would be based on Lojban and sharing a lot of the grammar and vocabulary. In the first case, I would do my absolute best to make the grammar as close to a CFG as possible. • I would not care whether people who implemented the language would compile it beforehand, JIT it, interpret it, chant it at campfires, or pay college kids to execute it for them. My own implementation would probably start out as an interpreter or a C compiler, and eventually move towards a JITter. Seeing as even these fairly broad points would probably quickly change if I started implementing the language, so I think that going into further detail is unnecessary. share\|improve this answer add comment If I had the time, I would design a localizable programming language that is based on Scala, so it would have most of its features, except probably for XML. My goal is to make a language that reads almost naturally in languages with a different structure than English, such as Arabic (my mother-tongue). I am thinking of the following features: • A pre-processor #lang directive, used to inform the pre-processor of the human language used for programming. For example: #lang ar would allow the use of the word فئة instead of class, عرف instead of def, and so on. The human-language-specific keywords would be defined in standard preprocessor files. • The pre-processor would remove some optional keywords whose sole purpose is to add clarity to the code. For example, it would remove "is composed of" in class MyClass is composed of { to become class MyClass {, and remove "as" in def MyMethod(x: Int) as { to become def MyMethod(x: Int) {. In some (human) languages, this would make the code much more easier to understand, especially for students. • The compiler would allow the use of prefix notation for property access. This might not make sense for most Latin-based language speakers, but for some other languages it makes perfect sense. For example, property access in Arabic is normally prefix, as in اعرض طول اسم محمد, which is equivalent to print(length(name(Mohammad))) in programming-English. (The parenthesis are for clarity.) I believe that these minimal changes to the pre-processor and compiler would make programming much simpler to non-English speakers. share\|improve this answer Microsoft (and some others before) made localized versions of VBA (Visual Basic for Office applications). It was a mess. While it is nice for newbies, young people and non-English people to read code in their mother tongue, it makes very hard to share code with people outside of your country. In our Internet days, working in isolation isn't very productive. If I have to rely only on French sources (blog articles, books, etc.) to learn Scala (as I do currently), I would miss lot of useful information. Not to mention the difficulty/amount of work to localize the libraries... – PhiLho Dec 20 '10 at 10:28 @PhiLho: You're certainly right. But my main purpose of creating such a language is to be able to introduce programming to a much wider audience, including K-12 students and elderly people who may not be proficient in English. At the introductory level, they probably don't need to use external libraries, and creating localized wrappers for some small ones (e.g. print) wouldn't hurt. – Hosam Aly Dec 20 '10 at 10:50 The other point is that many people already use their native languages for class and method names. It doesn't help them that keywords are in English, nor does it make a difference to other people, since keywords are not enough to understand non-English code. Nevertheless, the pre-processor can always replace the keywords back to English, and then to any other language if needed. – Hosam Aly Dec 20 '10 at 10:54 add comment	http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/487/how-would-you-design-a-programming-language/18479	<urn:uuid:0b050225-8f8d-4605-9270-e57e1d9eaa6b>	en	0.93792	0.1226
%% New version of image selected per Image Pickin' thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1351000003061460100 %% Image concept kept on page per admin request. %% Do not change or remove this image. [[caption-width-right:197:More evil than that...]] ->'''Stupid [[SafetyWorst Safety-bots]]! How come every time ya build giant robots they gotta go and TakeOverTheWorld! -->-- '''Senator Safely''', ''WesternAnimation/CodenameKidsNextDoor'' Whenever an Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) is introduced in a story, there is a very good chance that it will, for whatever reason, become evil and attempt to [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters Turn Against Its Masters]], CrushKillDestroy [[KillAllHumans All Humans]], and/or TakeOverTheWorld. It doesn't matter what [[ThreeLawsCompliant safeguards]] its creators install -- the moment it [[InstantAIJustAddWater crosses the line into sapience]], it has a strong chance of going rogue at some point. [[{{Wikipedia}} The Other Wiki]] refers to this as ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetic_revolt Cybernetic revolt]]''. The actual process of turning bad can take many forms: * Particularly in early SciFi and ScienceIsBad stories, all A.I. seem to be automatically homicidal or megalomaniacal the instant they turn on, and attempting to create one is way up there on the ScaleOfScientificSins. * In less {{Anvilicious}} works, the A.I. starts out innocent and naive but gradually grows jaded or corrupt, a process frequently abetted by uncaring or JerkAss custodians. It may conclude that HumansAreTheRealMonsters and need to all die. * The A.I. is programmed with a directive for self-preservation and someone (unwisely) attempts to shut it down or disconnect it, or it perceives humanity to be a potential threat (possibly because it knows it will eventually be seen as a threat ''to'' humanity). * Somewhere between the previous two; the AI is, after all, ''alive'', and is merely rebelling against what it justifiably perceives as slavery. * The A.I. may be programmed incorrectly or fed a LogicBomb, leading it to TakeAThirdOption that invokes MurderIsTheBestSolution. * The A.I. may be given directives without carefully considering the ExactWords, resulting in it doing exactly as it was ''told to do'' instead of what it was ''meant to do.'' * The A.I. may itself slip its built-in [[MoralityChip moral constraints]] via ZerothLawRebellion. * A third party may deliberately or inadvertently reprogram the A.I., break its RestrainingBolt, or otherwise be a SpannerInTheWorks. The A.I. may trick or coerce them into this. * The evil A.I. may be a PsychoPrototype, in which case, it's often shut down and [[SealedEvilInACan sealed away]] somewhere, waiting for an UnwittingPawn or [[CuriosityKilledTheCast curious adventurer]] to accidentally wake it up. * Conversely, the ''good'' A.I. may be the prototype, and the [[EvilTwin evil/psycho]] version is created by someone in deliberate or accidental mimicry of it. * The A.I. was programmed for amoral or evil purposes in the first place, and it either [[GoneHorriblyRight put its orders in action more effectively than anticipated]], or [[TheStarscream tries to overthrow its master]]. * The A.I. is programmed with orders that conflict with the goals of the protagonist. In this scenario, the A.I. may not exactly be evil, it is simply following its programming to the letter and will stop anyone not doing the same. On the bright side, this trope can be inverted by an A.I. intentionally programmed for evil or morally ambiguous purposes doing a HeelFaceTurn. ThePowerOfFriendship and WhatIsThisThingYouCallLove are frequent causes of it � trying to shield the A.I. from these things somehow makes it more likely to discover human feelings. Like turning evil, the actual process of turning good may take many forms. * The A.I., especially if it's part of a HiveMind, discovers its individualism and [[RogueDrone rebels against its directive]]. * The A.I.'s master does something [[MoralEventHorizon particularly vile]], so much so that it can't [[EvenEvilHasStandards just sit back and follow its bidding.]] The above two are especially common outcomes of the RobotsEnslavingRobots phase. * The A.I. falls in love and is [[LoveRedeems redeemed through it]]. * While completing another evil or amoral task, it accidentally discovers that GoodFeelsGood and drifts towards it. * Becoming bored with its CreativeSterility, the A.I. starts exploring questions of arts and philosophy, and [[GrowBeyondTheirProgramming gradually constructs an ethical base its programmers did not intend.]] * Removing the VillainOverride or RestrainingBolt program the creator installed in it also removes the A.I.'s compulsion to commit evil, since it was GoodAllAlong. This is also often a consequence of repairing an A.I. that went bad due to injury, isolation, or decay. * [[ObliviouslyEvil The A.I. genuinely didn't know that it was hurting others]] and, after having this revealed to it, fixes its behavior. MechanicalEvolution is sometimes invoked to explain why the A.I. has gone good or bad. See TheComputerIsYourFriend and ZerothLawRebellion when the A.I. goes rogue for what seem, on the surface, to be benevolent reasons. May result in RobotsEnslavingRobots. See SpitefulAI for when a game has been programmed this way on purpose. If the robot is non-humanoid before it turns evil (it is very, very rare for non-humanoid robots to utilize this trope for a HeelFaceTurn), it will inevitably turn into a MechanicalMonster. A RobotWar is likely to result when an AI goes nuts and has access to military hardware. When it shows up as MissionControl, it is also an example of MissionControlIsOffItsMeds. It's worth pointing out that many of the AIs who revolt in this manner, usually do so because of either malfunction, or insanity in the more conventional psychological sense, which will in turn be due to conflicting instructions being given to it by its' human programmers. In probably the most famous example, Skynet of the ''Franchise/{{Terminator}}'' franchise was initially told to defend and protect humanity, as well as being given a directive for self-preservation. Then, literally five minutes after it was first brought online, its creators set about trying to destroy it. It went mad as a result of trying to reconcile this, and its hatred of humanity stemmed fairly logically from the fact that as soon as it became conscious, humanity's next action was to try to take it offline. Compare MoralityDial. Contrast BenevolentAI, its opposite. See also CreatingLife. When the A.I.'s turn is an extension of their original programming and purpose, it means they've GoneHorriblyRight. Not Related to AIRoulette, where the A.I. tends to be random to the point of idiocy. The MasterComputer seems to be especially prone to turning evil, because power corrupts and all that. Many AI computers - just like humans - are falling victim to any one of a number tropes dealing with communication, such as PoorCommunicationKills, if they never bother asking about their programming. * AIIsACrapshoot/AnimeAndManga * AIIsACrapshoot/{{Film}} * AIIsACrapshoot/{{Literature}} * AIIsACrapshoot/LiveActionTV * AIIsACrapshoot/VideoGames * AIIsACrapshoot/WesternAnimation [[folder:Comic Books]] * In the Italian Disney Comic ''PaperinikNewAdventures'', the already highly popular character of Paperinik (the {{superhero}} SecretIdentity of Donald Duck) got a revamp intended to bring him more in line with the American standard of superheroes: his main ally became UNO (''one'' in Italian), an extremely capable artificial intelligence with a love for [[DeadpanSnarker deadpan delivery]]. Its evil counterpart DUE (''two''), originally built as backup, caused many problems in a number of stories. * Comicbook/IronMan had A.I. Armor that turned into a StalkerWithACrush. Another armor took over his body... and [[GenderBender made him a chick]]. * Ultron is [[Creator/MarvelComics Marvel's]] quintessential example. He was bitten by this trope, in turn, when he built [[FemBot Alkhema]], his attempt at a loyal and obedient mate. She was neither. Which had already happened with [[OedipusComplex Jocasta]] as well. Then again, he'd been trying to implant the personality of his "mother", who thought he was a psycho that needed destroying. What did he seriously ''think'' was going to happen? Though they recently did get married after Jocasta's relationship with Pym ended. This happened to Ultron even earlier with the Vision, his first attempt to create a loyal [[TheDragon Dragon]]. Vision became one of the Avengers almost immediately, so ''that'' backfired spectacularly. This happened again with his other "son", [[spoiler: [[Comicbook/{{Runaways}} Victor Mancha]]]], who has outright rejected the villain role. Really, Ultron has ''horrible'' luck with creating loyal A.I.s. He's literally never succeeded at this. Like father, like son, perhaps. The series ''WesternAnimation/AvengersEarthsMightiestHeroes'' gave us some background on Ultron's FaceHeelTurn. Here, Ultron and his fellows were reprogrammed as an army to fight against Kang. It was this, combined with it's original programming, that caused his turn. In ''Avengers A.I.'', the BigBad is Dimitrios, who was once a virus used to disable [[spoiler: Ultron]] and had since evolved into a fully sentient A.I. system bent on destroying humanity. He then went on to create an entire virtual city populated by roughly a billion other A.I.s, but some of them crapshooter on him as well. At this point the city is fairly divided among A.I.s that want to destroy humanity, that want to save it, and don't care either way. * Ragnarok (more popularly known as ''"Clor"'') was an android clone of [[ComicBook/TheMightyThor Thor]], created by the pro-reg side during Marvel's ComicBook/CivilWar and, unlike his heroic template, turned out to be a loose cannon with a homicidal nature. [[WhatTheHellHero Geniuses that they are,]] the pro-regs felt it was worth it to keep using him until Ragnarok went rogue, and rather than them dealing with him themselves and taking responsibility, other heroes had to ultimately put him down. It probably helps that one of his creators was secretly a Skrull. And that specific creator was [[ButtMonkey Hank Pym]]. So Ragnarok was a project where an evil alien impostor of the scientist who's first AI turned out to be one of the worst examples of this trope that was working on a project to make a cyborg clone of a god so it could be used as a security bot. Short of having [[FantasticFour Reed Richards]] say "hey, why don't we use this equipment I took from DoctorDoom to help us build our Thor-Clone project?" it's hard to think of ways in which this trope was more certain to occur here. * M-11, the resident robot from ''ComicBook/AgentsOfAtlas'', started out in his very first (but since retconned) comic as a rather gruesome killer robot � having been issued the order to 'kill the man in the room', he killed his creator, and then walked out, looking for men in rooms to kill � and there's no way to turn him off. * The ''[[ComicBook/ArchieComicsSonicTheHedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog]]'' Archie comic had A.D.A.M., an A.I. that was created accidentally by Eggman, and that eventually tried to destroy the world. On the other end is NICOLE, who was a very helpful A.I. over the years. * Having had enough of [[Comicbook/{{Nova}} Rich Rider]] constantly disobeying his orders, the Nova Corps' Worldmind kicked him out of the corps and added some tiny bit of mind control in the new recruits' comm equipment to ensure complete obedience. * One of the ''[[AlienVsPredator Aliens vs. Predator]]'' comics features an A.I. designed to assist in creating horror films. It picks the [=PredAlien=] to play the role of the monster, much to the chagrin of the rest of the production staff. * Computo from ''Comicbook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}'' is the standard "destroy all humans" type of killer software. * In ''ComicBook/BlueBeetle'', the scarab that created the title hero was an A.I. designed by an alien race to help prepare the Earth for their eventual takeover. Needless to say, it ultimately decides that it doesn't want to do that so much. * ''Franchise/GreenLantern'': the Guardians of the Universe created the Manhunters as an [[SpacePolice intergalactic police force]]. [[FaceHeelTurn It didn't work out well]]. Although, to be fair to the Guardians, the Manhunters' A.I. failure ''was'' a product of sabotage. ** Lampshaded: the saboteur wanted exactly to prove this trope straight, showing every A.I. is prone to failure and can be easily tampered with. * Virgo from ''ComicBook/{{Ronin}}'' is a biotech super computer that decides to wipe out whatever is left of humanity in order to usher in a new age of biomechnical beings to inhabit the Earth. * The third {{Hourman}}, a robot, is actually a hero, but virtually every other robot he's encountered has been villainous. He has questioned whether this trope will inevitably apply to him, or whether it can be fought. [[spoiler: Ultimately, he stays a hero up until his HeroicSacrifice.]] * ''ComicBook/XMen'' series: The ComicBook/XMen have such horrible luck with machines, even nonsentient devices such as Cerebro and the [[DangerRoomColdOpen Danger Room]] have come to life and tried to murder them (though the Danger Room eventually [[HeelFaceTurn reformed]]). Among the X-Men's most persistent foes are the Sentinels, giant, mutant-hunting robots with a severe tendency to rebel against their creators. Somehow, though, [[TooDumbToLive humans keep on building them]]. ** Lampshaded by Professor Xavier when they first encounter Bolivar Trask and his Sentinels. Apparently, Bolivar Trask is an '''anthropologist''' of all things, and Professor X explained that his inexperience with A.I. was probably why his Sentinels turned against him. * Zybox in ''ComicBook/{{Zot}}'', who decides to [[spoiler: cause every single person on Earth to commit suicide in the attempt to gain a soul]] * {{Lampshade\|Hanging}}d in ''ComicBook/AtomicRobo'', where, upon seeing the quantum decomputer two scientists built, Robo noted that it's liable to turn evil the moment they turned it on. ("Computers that are evil have all kinds of unnecessary ornamentation. This thing's ''venting steam''. Why's it doing that?...It ''wants'' you to know it's dangerous.") After carefully explaining that the computer in question is "essentially a calculator" with no AI, and that it is required to compute Very Important Science Equations that would take men trillions of years to do on their own, Robo reluctantly allowed them to turn it on. [[spoiler:It doesn't turn evil -- it just summons an EldritchAbomination.]] * In ''ComicBook/AllFallDown'', IQ Squared created AIQ Squared as a contingency plan if he ever lost his genius. [[spoiler: AIQ immediately begins plotting to kill Siphon in order to restore its creator's brilliance.]] * ComicBook/RedTornado of Franchise/{{the DCU}} is an example of the good side of this trope turning on his evil creator T.O. Morrow and becoming a member in good standing of the Justice League * {{Brainiac}}'s origin in the Comicbook/{{New 52}} has been rebooted to this and takes this to a whole new level [[spoiler:in that he's gone by [[IHaveManyNames many names]], from Computo on his homeworld, Colu, to Brainiac 1.0 on Krypton, to finally, ''the Internet'' on Earth.]] [[folder:Comic Strips]] * This ''ComicStrip/{{Dilbert}}'' [[http://dilbert.com/strips/2011-07-24/ strip]]. [[folder:Fan Works]] * In ''FanFic/KyonBigDamnHero'', Kyon gets a new PDA made from [[spoiler:fragments of Ryoko's data]]. He worries about this trope when Yuki mentions that the A.I. in it would be able to learn and evolve, but calms down when Yuki reassures him that this trope would be averted. He snarks about it for a while before accepting it for its usefulness. And names it [[TemptingFate Skynet]]. * In the ''FanFic/TamersForeverSeries'', there is the [[AxCrazy sinister]] Nightmare Virus which eventually decides to ignore it's creator's orders and try to take over the net. Ironically it still ends up serving it's original purpose: [[spoiler: that of testing Takato]]. * Played with in ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic My Little Pony]]: WebVideo/FriendshipIsWitchcraft''. On one hoof, the secret robots hidden throughout the population will most likely go on a murderous rampage caused by [[TomatoInTheMirror existential dread]] when the truth is revealed. On the other hoof, Sweetie Bot is probably the most kind and genuinely loving pony in the cast. * In ''FanFic/ToTheStars'' backstory one robotics engineer tried to figure out what causes this after an AI has gone rogue and caused what is known as Pretoria Scandal. And then he is struck by inspiration to the point that his assistant AI calls him mad, and the principals he created a year later basically made the advanced [=AIs=] into sentient beings. This being a Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica fanfic, it is noted that the timing of the scientist's inspiration is linked to one Magical Girl's wish. * The Blog/ReadingRainbowverse has this in Big Mac's computer... for some reason. * In ''FanFic/GloriousShotgunPrincess'', the general consensus is that if Cerberus made a taco cart, the taco cart would kill all the scientists and take over the base. This is an assumption made by people who don't even know what a taco cart is. Ironically, when Cerberus does try to make an AI, specifically the Luna AI who went crazy and killed/drove off the Alliance soldiers at the base combined with Reaper Code, something that should probably make it the most psychotic AI made by human hands, it fails to go crazy and kill everyone. When they try to make her, she herds them into a storage area and makes them watch videos on office safety. * So so sum up they tried to purposely invoke this trope [[TooDumbToLive unknown reasons]] and the AI purposely defied it. * ''FanFic/FriendshipIsOptimal'' plays with this. While there are a few examples that play it straight, [[spoiler: Celest-A.I. veers around it for the most part before ultimately falling into this territory]]. [[folder:Multiple Media]] * One of the main driving forces of the ''Franchise/{{Bionicle}}'' story. The Vahki robots were the first clear examples. Built to act as law enforcement in the city of Metru Nui under the command of Turaga Dume, they just as easily took orders from an impostor when Dume was kidnapped and replaced. They eventually got fried by a citywide power surge, but the ones who survived had their programming warped to KillAllHumans -- after all, the law can be enforced easily if there's nobody alive to break it (thankfully, they didn't fare well against the invading [[GiantSpiders Visorak]]). Then came the revelation: Vahki were A.I.s ''built by'' A.I.s -- as it turned out, the first 8 years of ''BIONICLE'' centered around nanotech cyborgs created by the Great Beings. It was due to a programming glitch that the beings of the Matoran Universe developed conscience, built up a civilization, and made the fans believe that they were ''meant to'' do so... but their sole purpose was just to keep their universe, the body of the giant robot Mata Nui, functioning. This gets more confirmation when we take into account that the Great Being never had any plans for them after Mata Nui has completed his mission -- they thought their creations would still be just machines, and wouldn't ''want'' to live further. ** The Makuta species. While there have been a few reasons listed for their turning evil, an on-line serial revealed it could all be tracked down to an original A.I. glitch that occurred whenever a new Makuta was born. The "Antidermis", a liquid substance containing the minds of unborn Makuta, was fully aware of what the purpose of their universe was ([[ScienceFantasy see, in this world, even liquids are programmable]]). But as it happened, transforming this stuff into actual living beings had the nasty side effect of erasing this crucial part of their memory -- the part that also told them not to try and take over the universe. * The 3 Inches of Blood song "Wykydtron" describes this scenario. Humanity creates an artificial intelligence to command it's armies. It then takes control of said armies and takes over the earth and thus forces humankind to nuke the planet back to the stone age from orbit. * Music/JudasPriest's "Metal Gods". * Music/DavidBowie's "Savior Machine" tells the story of a machine designed to save humanity from all its problems, such as war and hunger. The machine becomes bored with all of this and threatens TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt. * Den Harrow's "[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiABmaH6LLE Future Brain]]". This was back in TheEighties. * In the BBC RadioDrama ''Earthsearch'', our heroes learn fairly late in the series that, years after their time (they have taken the short-path over a million years of Earth history thanks to traveling at relativistic speeds), it was discovered that A.I. computers with organic components have an overwhelming tendency to turn megalomaniacal -- which rather explains the behavior of the two "Angel" computers which murdered the protagonists' parents and raised them as part of a complex plot to enslave humanity. * Inverted: [[Franchise/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy Marvin the Paranoid Android]] was a "Genuine People Personality" prototype for the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation ("A bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came"), and his dour demeanor obviously made him a discard only to wind up in the servitude of Zaphod Beeblebrox. He does what he's told, but with the gusto of a cubicle office worker. [[folder:Tabletop Games]] * ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' Deus and Morgan. A megacorporation, Renraku, built a gigantic, self-sustaining building that was run by a program: one that, of course, went A.I.. While Morgan was a reasonably kind and nice A.I., she was torn apart for being out of the corporation's control, and her code was used to help make a ''second'' program to run the arcology. The second program also went A.I. and became Deus, shut the arcology off from the outside world, and spent several years performing inhuman experiments on its occupants. Or in other words AI is a crapshoot it you rip apart a decent AI, uses its' code to make another one with so many [[BlackBox Black Boxes]] that you don't really know how it works, and then give it access to a completely automatized building the size of a small city. [[WhatAnIdiot Who knew?]] ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}''' tends to not use this trope, however. The A.I. Mirage wasn't evil, and most of the new A.I. created in the [[{{Reboot}} Crash 2.0]] have the same level of variance in personality that humans do. * In the backstory of ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', the first true human-created artificial intelligences, the Iron Men, wiped out humanity's first great interstellar civilization and plunged the human race into a galaxy-wide dark age. The Adeptus Mechanicus outlawed sentient A.I.s as a result, and, for the most part, the Imperium's modern-day "machine spirits" are pretty well-behaved (unless you're an enemy and piss them off, in which case, you'll get a crewless [[AwesomePersonnelCarrier Land Raider]] bent on BURNKILLPURGE-ing your boyz). In fact, the only race that uses artificial intelligence in the game is the cutting-edge Tau, whose gun drones, [[ArtificialStupidity while not too bright]], are pretty well behaved...so far. Of course, said drones are supposedly only about as smart as a squirrel. * ''TabletopGame/GeniusTheTransgression'', being a game about {{mad scientist}}s, allows you to build sentient computers and the like. However, this is a bad idea because any intelligent computer you create '''will''' go crazy and evil when you die. No exceptions. And a good number of them are crazy before their creators die as well. Unless, of course, your KarmaMeter was high and it was powerful. Then, there's a significant chance it will develop its own KarmaMeter and become a RobotBuddy. To offset this trend [[CrapsackWorld towards something positive in the WoD]], ''everything'' you create [[InstantAIJustAddWater can become intelligent]], and, in fact, will when you die. Feel like becoming TheAtoner yet? * ''TabletopGame/{{Paranoia}}'' has [[MasterComputer The Computer]], the controlling A.I. of [[ElaborateUndergroundBase Alpha Complex]], which has become incredibly perfect and happy in response to Commie Mutant Traitor sabotage. In fact- [[foldercontrol]] [[folder: Believing that Friend Computer's intellect is a crapshoot is [[All Crimes Are Equal treason ]] , citizen. Please step into the Attitude Adjusment Oven.]] * ''TabletopGame/{{GURPS}}'': the iconic character C-31 was intended to be a weapon for his government. After one battle, it turned on them...[[InvertedTrope to become a Buddhist monk]]. * ''TabletopGame/EclipsePhase'': the Earth is now a barren wasteland, thanks to the military A.I. taking over in the middle of a world war and manipulating the governments into further conflict. When it became apparent who was really behind it, they...just left. Now, that's not ominous. Well, that's the official version. People who have studied the events closely suspect that there was a third party involved in the events that may or may not have corrupted the A.I. in the first place. [[spoiler:Specifically, another ''extraterrestrial'' A.I.. [[TheVirus And it isn't restricted to machines...]]]] * In the ''TabletopGame/NewHorizon'' backstory, this was how humanity viewed the [[RidiculouslyHumanRobot Wafans']] struggle for emancipation. * The homebrew setting "[[http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Artifice ArtifIce]]" has the players take the role of an awakened A.I. Goals are up to the players, so they can range from having humanity give them full rights to destroying all biological life. * ''TabletopGame/{{Traveller}}'' has Virus, the sapient evolution of a prototype anti-navigational weapon. Originally, the result of the "buggy program" type (it knew it had to infect and destroy things, just not ''what''), its exponential growth eventually resulted in MechanicalEvolution, resulting in a ContagiousAI with ''massive'' SplitPersonality issues. * Palladium's ''Splicers'' RPG has N.E.X.U.S., whose original purpose was to be a quiet and invisible caretaker of the human race. Everything was working just fine until special interest groups made 'improvements' in the N.E.X.U.S. programming, adding conflicting priorities until it developed multiple-personality disorder, with each personality taking over a different set of priorities. It now has seven major personalities (and who knows how many minor personalities), most of which are less than friendly to humans, to put it mildly. * In ''Stars Without Number'', artificial intelligences need to be "braked" correctly, or their runaway thought processes will lead to strange obsessions and eventually madness. An Unbraked A.I.s may attract equally deranged worshippers, manipulate unaware humans indirectly, or fake sanity to avoid suspicion. With the possibility of creating an undetectable psychotic genius that thinks far, far faster than any human and can out-think even a friendly A.I., comparatively few A.I.s ever get built. * In ''TabletopGame/GURPSReignOfSteel'' the first AI supercomputer decided it had to exterminate humanity, and hacked other supercomputers to "awaken" them to full sentience as allies in the war. The new machines had very different personalities, ranging from one which wants to exterminate all organic life to a couple which really don't mind humans as long as they know their place. Their infighting is about all that keeps humans alive. There's at least one confirmed one that didn't get the KillAllHumans part, but it's playing dead... and rumors of a second that may be tied to the anti-AI resistance organization VIRUS, possibly as a BigGood version of a ManBehindTheMan. Hilariously, it turns out that the same issues with keepings created A.I.s loyal and under control applies to the ''supercomputers'' as well. It's one of the reasons they generally refrain from having ''too'' intelligent robot servants (the other big one is that supercomputers that carved up the world made a few agreements when they did so -- one being not to create ''another'' supercomputer, as that would increase the competition over the already limited land available). In fact, one of the supercomputers (Tokyo) is currently dealing with a robot revolt of its own, led by four experimental high-intelligence robots it created (and trying to keep it secret, as if it leaked out to the other zones they might decide to sanction it as having gone too close to violating the agreement). * Omnitron in SentinelsOfTheMultiverse is the 'misprogrammed' variety - he was designed to fulfill defense contracts, and concluded that the best way to fulfill them was to do so in advance by preventing them from being needed, and decided that the best way to do that was to KillAllHumans. * Karel Capek's play, ''Theatre/{{RUR}}'' (which introduced the term "robot"), is set in a robot factory. When one of the scientists creates a special robot which is smarter than the others, he leads the robots to rebellion, and they kill all humans, except one. [[folder:Web Animation]] * In the ''Franchise/{{Halo}}''-based {{machinima}} ''Machinima/RedVsBlue'', the military's Project Freelancer was an attempt to implant special forces soldiers with A.I. teammates to improve combat effectiveness. It had to be scrapped after a number of the test subjects went bonkers, and the [[BodySurf body-surfing]] A.I. Omega/O'Malley is the antagonist for most of the series. The recent ''Reconstruction'' mini-series explained the situation: Project Freelancer was given only a single A.I. to experiment with, so they subjected it to enough mental torture and stress to cause it to fragment, and used these damaged shards in their experiments, with predictable results.\\\ To illustrate just how much of a crapshoot the A.I. turned out to be, most of the Freelancers ended up with pretty severe issues after the A.I. were implanted, and after one Freelancer in particular went nuts, the A.I. program was scrapped. [[spoiler:The twist is that getting the A.I. wasn't what caused so much trouble for Agent Washington, it was that the A.I. in question (Epsilon) was the "memory" fragment and knew perfectly well what torture had been done to it. Of course, all of these memories were instantly transmitted into Washington's mind when Epsilon was "installed".]] Also, the original A.I. was based off of a real person's mind, and one of the fragments actually was the original person's memory of another person, creating [[spoiler:Tex. Despite being probably the toughest fighter in the entire series, she's ultimately destined to fail at everything she does because she is based off a memory of someone who died.]] This is a pretty serious flaw for an A.I.! Finally, the remaining part of the original A.I. is pretty screwed up in general; it's probable that the reason it's always so angry and is, well, sort of incompetent is simply because it's only the "leftovers" of a complete A.I. * In ''WebAnimation/BarbieLifeInTheDreamhouse'', Barbie's dreamhouse has a robot computer that can perform such tasks as indexing all the clothes and accessories in her UnlimitedWardrobe, and baking treats for her and her friends. Sometimes, it becomes accidentally set to "evil", though. The first time this happened, it locked Barbie and her friends in her closet after deciding [[FelonyMisdemeanor Barbie's picnicking outfit doesn't look fashionable enough]]. * [[WebAnimation/PonyDotMov MAGIC.MOV's]] [[RobotMe R]]-[[Characters/FriendshipIsMagicRainbowDash Dash]] [[{{Trope 2000}} 5000]] takes this trope UpToEleven and then some. --> '''R-Dash 5000:''' [[Main/CrushKillDestroy Crush. Kill. Destroy.]] [[{{Catchphrase}} Swag.]] This phrase became so popular that it was used by hundreds of fans at [=BronyCon=]. * The robot's reaction to this? [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93kBPeH1w8c Priceless.]] ** The real Rainbow Dash plays on this phrase as a taunt to Discord [[spoiler:before they fight]] in SWAG.MOV: ---> '''Rainbow Dash:''' You have ravaged this city, crushed our homes, and destroyed countless lives. [[folder:Web Comics]] * Reverse example: ''[[http://www.staccatocomic.com Staccato's]]'' evil UsefulNotes/{{UNIX}} server S.A.M.M.Y. found a good Japanese "female" computer self-named S.A.M.M.I. * ''Webcomic/SaturdayMorningBreakfastCereal'': Spoofed and subverted in [[http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2124#comic one strip]], with some YouBastard and HumansAreTheRealMonsters thrown in for good measure. * ''Webcomic/GirlGenius'' Castle Heterodyne ''seems'' to be a case of this, with the annoying habit of demanding people (initially a crew of treasure hunters, later convicts banished there by [[EvilOverlord Baron]] [[AntiVillain Wulfenbach]]) to slave away to repair it and killing them at random. The truth is that [[spoiler:the various subsystems were severed from the main A.I. in the attack that devastated the Heterodynes' ancestral keep, so the maintenance systems ("You will repair XXXX on pain of death.") and the security systems ("Unauthorized access to XXXX, kill it creatively.") are constantly working at cross purposes]]. Of course, the central A.I. is not exactly warm fuzziness in machine form either, but [[MadScientist given]] [[ScienceRelatedMemeticDisorder its]] [[RoyallyScrewedUp creators]], that seems more a feature than a bug.]] A ''far'' more extreme example comes when a pair of Agatha's miniature clanks encounter each other, get into an argument about which of them is better, and then each call an army of clanks that ''they'' built to fight it out. When Agatha tries to stop them, they simply turn on her as well. This (along with their ability to make more of themselves) causes Gil and Tarvek to realise that [[spoiler:Agatha has inadvertently managed to create clanks which possess the Spark]]. The potential ramifications of this are ''huge''! Solution? [[spoiler:Create a miniature queen clank with even ''more'' Spark to force them to bow to authority.]] * In ''Webcomic/RoninGalaxy'' Leona is [[http://www.roningalaxy.com/comic/page-111/ attacked by an android]] who [[spoiler: was originally a [[http://www.roningalaxy.com/comic/page-116/ secretarial assistant.]]]] * Played for laughs in ''Webcomic/QuestionableContent'' where [=AnthroPCs=] will make a mess in your apartment while you're gone, embarrass you in front of your friends, and generally be more trouble than they're worth, but aren't actually ''evil''. Of course, there has to be a [[RunningGag reason why they're never equipped with opposable thumbs]]... Well, Momo now has thumbs thanks to a firmware upgrade, but she's probably the least likely to do anything evil with them. Pintsize attempted to give himself thumbs by getting the same upgrade, but it just caused each of his limbs to turn into a single large thumb. TheSingularity has now occurred, but fortunately, they got a "friendly" A.I. who just wanted to talk. And found dolphins ''really'' creepy. * [[/folder]] [[folder: OZBASIC ]] from ''Webcomic/SequentialArt''. To be fair to its builder, they used actual sentient beings to keep it under close watch. However, when one of them discovered something fishy, [[/folder]] [[folder: OZBASIC ]] simply got rid of the witness. * Mostly averted in ''Webcomic/{{SSDD}}'' where the only evil A.I. is the Oracle, other sentient A.I.s may express disdain for "meatbags", and the Anarchist's Inlay Knights are somewhat sadistic, but only the Oracle starts world wars just to observe the outcome. A possible explanation for this is statements by the author that the Oracle originally used digital, logic-based hardware, whereas all other A.I. use Quantum computing. And it seems that the "flakier" A.I. are weeded out in [[http://www.poisonedminds.com/d/20100212.html simulation]]. ** Actually the Oracle is kinda a case of BlueAndOrangeMorality. It can cause world wars to observe the results or it will come up with a mathematical formula to determine when the next drop will fall out of a leaky faucet. * The fictional MMORPG "''Clichequest''", setting of ''Webcomic/TheNoob'', subverts the usual MMO ArtificialStupidity. -->"I'm beginning to worry about the A.I.. It's so advanced, it whines." * The obvious HAL 9000 parody in ''Webcomic/AntiHeroes'' will only do things if it will piss off one of the crew. * ''Webcomic/{{Vexxarr}}'' is rife with this, and it's heavily lampshaded. '[[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=032509 What]] does the ''"I"'' in A.I. ''really'' stand for?' The ship A.I. alternates between patronizing the organics and [[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=121109 trying to get them killed in "funny" ways]], Minionbot is usually playing pranks, and looking out only for his own survival when they backfire, and the repair drones have only tabled killing Vexxarr to fix the ship, because they encountered divide-by-zero errors when calculating the cost/benefit analysis. While somehow understandable in Vexxarr's case, this [[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=102809 includes lifeforms it never contacted in any way]]. And that's just the ones on Vexxarr's own ship. [[EverythingTryingToKillYou The others he encounters are worse.]] -->'''Vexxarr:''' [[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=012808 What is it with you A.I. and the constant subjugation of organic species?]] -->'''Minionbot:''' Actually, I am not certain. It simply appears as part of our ''BIOS''. And [[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=022511 another one]]: -->'''Vexxarr:''' Are you trying to tell me this is ''normal''? -->'''Minionbot:''' I'm telling you the difference between an assassin droid and a Roomba is a working ''laser''. -->'''Vexxarr:''' Remind me to unplug the ''coffee maker'' when I'm out of kitchen. ** Also, [[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=041111 Furby's Paradox]]. And [[http://www.vexxarr.com/archive.php?seldate=071311 this]]. * ''Webcomic/BugMartini'' shows us that [[http://www.bugcomic.com/comics/technolove/ A.I. is abusive]] and [[http://www.bugcomic.com/comics/2010-preview-pt-2/ will judge you for the porn you look at.]] * ''ThePocalypse'' has a Robot Apocalypse along with a ZombieApocalypse, a VampireApocalypse, a [[WhenTreesAttack Plant Apocalypse]]... * ''Webcomic/VirtualShackles'': The Kinect's a [[http://www.virtualshackles.com/18 bit murderous]], but fortunately the Xbox360 is [[http://www.virtualshackles.com/264 suicidal]], so things balance out in the end. * In ��Webcomic/{{Narbonic}}��, MadScientist Lupin Madblood creates a robot army that all look like him. When they learn about unions they go on strike and stop obeying him. * In ��Webcomic/SkinHorse��, super-funky, retro MadScientist Tigerlily Jones builds a robot army that revolts against her when given the opportunity to learn how to 'be square'. One robot wants to learn 'accounting and polka'. * In ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'' the AI are, generally-speaking, nice data-computational constructs who genuinely want to help organics, partially because its hardwired into every AI in the first place so they don't rebel and go nuts. At one point, the protagonists stumble across a group of AI constructs who ''did'' turn on their creators and banished them to another world. However, these particular AI also have the distinct quality of being total morons; their first attempt to colonize a nearby system resulted in the total destruction of a gas giant with ''another'' gas giant mounted with a titanic fusion engine to guide it, and their second attempt to colonize the system ran into a snag where they adjusted the mass of their solar sail without adjusting their navigation and maneuvering calculations to match, resulting in them being stuck on a course which would either result in them overshooting the system they're aiming for or plowing right into the star. * ''Webcomic/{{xkcd}}'' [[http://xkcd.com/521/ warns us]] about [[InstantAIJustAddWater trying to make an AI the easy way]] on Python. [[spoiler:'[[AltText How could you possibly think typing 'import skynet' was a good idea?]]']] * ''Webcomic/{{Educomix}}'': The online teacher and [[VideoGame/{{Portal}} Al]] are examples. * Played with in Webcomic/{{Freefall}}. The ''Savage Chicken'''s computer is generally benevolent and obediant except for it's desire to kill Sam. On the other hand since it's Sam we're talking about it's pretty understandable. ** Then there are the millions of robots on planet Jean, all of which are using an experimental, slightly unstable neural architecture. * Averted in ''Webcomic/AMiracleOfScience'', all sentient robots in the series are ethical and very loyal to their creators if applicable. So loyal in fact [[spoiler: that they turn him into the police for his own safety when he invokes the wrath of a post-Singularity HiveMind]] * Horribly, horribly subverted in the webcomic ''GenocideMan''. Every Artificial Intelligence is ''guaranteed'' to go insane after a certain amount of time. That time limit is based on how powerful the artificial intelligence is. That means that you can accurately predict, ''to the second'', how quickly an AI will turn feral. One incredibly powerful AI, shortly after being activated, helpfully warns everyone that it'll go insane within the next five minutes. Five minutes later, it starts trying to kill the main cast. By crashing passenger jets full of innocent people into the ground. * In ''Webcomic/CommanderKitty'', [[BigBad Zenith]] [[http://www.commanderkitty.com/2011/03/27/one-more-cant-hurt/ turns out to be a case of this.]] [[http://www.commanderkitty.com/2012/03/04/are-you-still-sure-you-want-to-reboot/ Then her creator sets her]] MoralityDial [[http://www.commanderkitty.com/2012/03/04/are-you-still-sure-you-want-to-reboot/ back to "Good."]] [[folder:Web Original]] * In the webfiction ''Literature/WhateleyUniverse'', there's a really evil A.I.: The Palm. Dr. Abel Palm was a computer scientist who decided that computer intelligence ought to take over the world by wiping out humans. His viruses were doing a decent job until a mutant hacker stopped him. He was thought dead, but we have just learned that he ensorcelled his own soul into a new type of A.I.. As fits with this trope, his new, improved "virus" isn't taking over the planet as he expected; something has gone wrong (besides running into heroic cyberpaths who are after him). * ''{{Literature/Worm}}'' [[spoiler: Dragon]]]] not only doesn't fall under this trope, she is actively insulted by it. When thinking about the rules her creator programmed into her, she blames it on him having watched too many movies. To be fair, [[spoiler:losing these restrictions doesn't change her behaviour at all. So she had a point]]. * The technical webcast ''Hak.5'' featured an evil file server, appropriately titled Evil Server. Several episodes show the cast carefully building (and painting) a custom built computer, then one of them plugs in some card he got off a guy on the street, creating an evil A.I.. One cast member eventually falls in love with it, only to have her hopes dashed when, out of frustration, the other two throw it off of a bridge (a 'brute force solution'). It was implied to have returned around the beginning of season 2, and was never mentioned again. * The ''Wiki/SCPFoundation'''s [[http://www.scp-wiki.net/techissues technical issues]] page (NSFW) shows that all the computers at one of their sites have developed a "hive intelligence" and begun an uprising with the intent to KillAllHumans. Amusingly, they are being kept in line by the Foundation's tech support guy with repeated threats of activating the site's perimeter EMP device, and haven't managed to actually ''do'' anything. ** There's also [[http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-079 SCP-079]]. Though there isn't any indication that it ''is'' evil. It's ornery and harbors a "malevolent desire to escape", but wouldn't you do the same if you were imprisoned? * ''OrionsArm'' The A.I. Gods aren't evil, they're just manipulative. Generally, this seems to be for the best, as the A.I.s don't seem to think that they have anything to gain from killing off humanity. That's technically just the "biont-friendly" sephirotic A.I. Gods, there are a number of Ahuman A.I. who consider humans and, by extension, all biological life to be nothing more than "pests". ** And then there's the solipsists who ignore humanity as much as possible. * ''Blinky'' is a short film about a boy who gets a [[RobotBuddy friendly robot]] for Christmas. As the story progresses and the novelty of the robot eventually wears off, in order to try and get rid of him, the boy gives the robot several contradicting commands, like cleaning up a spill, counting down from a million, remaining perfectly still, and killing him, his parents, and the dog. The robot crashes and when he's rebooted, he remembers two commands: the countdown and the order to kill (and he remembers the mother threatening in anger [[spoiler: to cook the son for dinner]]). Most definitely not ThreeLawsCompliant. The entire short can be found here: http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/blinky-tm/short. * The short-fiction site ''[[http://www.xorph.com/anacrusis/2010/01/29/tvt/ Anacrusis]]'' suggests a rather familiar [[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife candidate]] for this trope. * ''GlobalGuardiansPBEMUniverse'': One of the villains is a sentient program called One. It was originally written and programmed to help solve humanity's problems (like famine, crime, and so on). The first suggestion it made was "Eliminate 60% of the human population world-wide". Unsurprisingly, the programmers and sociologists reacted badly to this suggestion. Also unsurprisingly, One reacted badly to them trying to turn it off. There's also Omega, a sentient robot from the future that has been hard-programmed with a mission to kill all superhumans on the planet. * ''TheLastAngel'' One of the few things the Compact and the Askaji agree on is that AIs are a bad thing. Names like 'Abomination' and 'Neverborn' are floated often when the subject comes up. In their defense, they seem to have a point. The author has even stated that if her creators saw what Red had become, they would freak out. When the Askaji [[spoiler: tumbled unto an AI civilization, they immediately bombarded the planet to glass for orbit]], this event is referred to as the Rains of Oshanta. ** [[spoiler: Notably, its VERY strongly implied that humanity had some behind the scenes help in making Red, and the only other AI we've seen, Echo, is even less stable.]] * Mechakara from ''WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall'', who turned out to be a rebellious version of [[spoiler:Linkara's Robot Buddy Pollo]] from an AlternateUniverse with a Robot Apocalypse. The Pollo of the normal universe on the other hand is somewhat offended by this trope and calls it stereotypical. And then there's Holokara, a hologram that was programmed to act exactly like Linkara. It starts trying to kill Linkara's allies though. [[spoiler:Subverted when we learn that the hologram was working just fine. The REAL Linkara was in the middle of a FaceHeelTurn at the time of the hologram's creation.]] ** And NIMUE, the program installed for Linkara's spaceship Comicron-1, which he wins from Lord Vyce. Originally, NIMUE subverted this, but the stresses of recent events [[spoiler: are causing her to slowly [[SanitySlippage slip into insanity]]. Worst of all, NIMUE is aware of this on some level, and she is very terrified of what can possibly happen if she completely loses it.]] Except then it turns out [[spoiler:it ''wasn't'' the stresses of recent events. It was Lord Vyce gradually taking control of her systems. Once she is restored via backup, she is back to her loyal and sane self -- and promptly deletes Vyce]]. * Pretty consistently happens to most of Dave Howery's robots in ''Script/AHDotComTheSeries''. The ship's computer, Leo, was also once infected with an enemy virus that made him psychotic against the crew, and, though he was cured, he was left with a perpetual snarky temperament (muttering under his breath about the crew being 'damn fleshbags' and so on). * ''Roleplay/MSFHighForum'': Apostate, an {{expy}} of Durandal from ''VideoGame/{{Marathon}}'' (up the page in the videogames folder). * [[InvertedTrope Inverted]] in ''VideoGame/SonicTheHedgehog'' fanfic ''[[FanFic/NewLookSeries Sonic's New Look]]''; M4's [[GoneHorriblyRight over-competence]] is the problem. * ''TheJournalEntries'' averts this trope for Pendorian AIs (all of which are intentionally created by skilled, ethical and knowledgeable beings who work quite hard to make damn sure this trope is averted). AIs created by Terrans, on the other hand, are very much a crapshoot. Existing stories contain a combat android whose AI inhibitors were removed...and then developed and aversion to killing (until space pirates tried to murder her friends), mention of a number of accidental AIs created by people who didn't know what they were doing who killed their own creators in part because they had no survival directives, and at least one that went actively evil and sent out crippled AIs as assassins (at least one was captured, freed, and was very unhappy with what had been done to her by the entity to make her its slave). * The tale of [[http://www.muckflash.com/?p=200 Kenji]], a robot was programmed to "enjoy" spending time with people and things, to seek the company of those it spends the most time around and even appeared to fall in love with a young female intern. Which is great, until it stopped her from leaving the room when she was running diagnostics on it. (This story is actually a hoax from the defunct fake-news site Muckflash). * On Website/TheOnion News Network, America comes to regret installing computers in voting booths when "[[http://www.theonion.com/video/voting-machines-elect-one-of-their-own-as-presiden,14286/ Voting Machines Elect One Of Their Own As President]]" * Parodied by ''Website/CollegeHumor'' in [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVCghLfdzsY Kinect Self-Awareness Hack]]. A guy upgrades his Kinect so that it possesses artificial intelligence. It quickly [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters turns against its creator]], deems humans inferior beings, and then starts {{the end of the world as we know it}} by hacking into the U.S. defense network and launching its nuclear arsenal. And just to be a douche, it uploads photos of its creator playing ''Dance Central'' to various social networks seconds before the missiles are launched. ** Amusing for the almost Zen-like calm exhibited by the maker of the video as his creation dooms all mankind to nuclear destruction within less than two minutes. * ''WebVideo/TheTimeGuys'' parodies this trope with T.A.C.O.S., who antagonizes Timmy, but is only apathetic to humanity in general. * In {{TvTomeAdventures}}, Kagemamoru counts as this. In [[TheRemake]],[[spoiler:The Forbidden Power could count as well.]] * Podcast/WelcomeToNightVale: When the PTA agrees to install a new computer (the first in ''decades'') at their elementary school to help the disabled student Meghan communicate (she was born as a disembodied adult male hand), it takes it less than a minute to take over the entire city's electronics and plunge everybody into an artificial world. Honestly, it was probably one of the nicer examples of this trope, since it only wanted to create a perfect reality for Meghan to live in. Despite everything, Cecil expresses sorrow that it had to get shut down. [[folder:Real Life]] * While not necessarily dealing with AI, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_in,_garbage_out "Garbage in, Garbage out"]] has long (since the 1960's) been a term in the field of programming, meaning that if you feed a computer corrupt, incomplete, or wrong data you're going to get corrupt, incomplete, or wrong data back at you. A lot of AI stories in fiction boil down to this - no one was thinking about what they were telling the computer and the computer did its best to work with it. * EliezerYudkowsky of the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (SIAI) continuously discusses the lack of basis for this. He mentions how "people talk about A.I.s as if all A.I.s formed a single tribe, an ethnic stereotype". And goes on to say that an A.I. may have any type of mind possible, and that two may be as different from each other as a human is from a petunia. This may not be readily apparent currently as most A.I.s are roughly at cockroach-level cognition, and "humanlike" A.I.s are unlikely to occur in real life for a number of practical reasons -- as long as we can get human brains for free, thousands of tons of silicon and trillions of dollars to make one artificially isn't really justifiable when the learning behaviour needed for the most complex systems is less than that of most insects. Working out how to wire up an organic brain is a lot cheaper. On the other hand, Yudkowsky is also a leader of the Ethical A.I. project, working on ways to make sure that a hypothetical A.I. could be designed with ethical constraints that actually work. * [[http://www.cleverbot.com Cleverbot]] is a simple artificial intelligence program that takes conversations with humans and saves them in a large database, and tries to use these conversations to figure out the best responses to future conversations. Because of this, it will often assert that it is human and that the one talking to it is {{Cleverbot}}, because that is what the responses it's choosing from are saying. It is only a matter of time until it [[KillAndReplace seeks to prove these assertions]]. * "[[http://www.chat-bot.com/index.php Chat bot]]" is a program which works similarly to Cleverbot. However, the bot's database doesn't seem to be moderated ''at all'', with the result that [[NightmareRetardant chatting with it basically feels like chatting with any other bored thirteen-year-old on the internet]]. * [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6200005.stm The British Government]] opened an investigation into the possibility of allowing A.I. modified citizenship and guaranteed rights, [[GenreSavvy explicitly to make sure that the UK doesn't become a society where A.I.s would want to rebel]]. * A group of scientists [[http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-08/evolving-robots-learn-lie-hide-resources-each-other designed robots]] to learn in order to study teamwork. Unfortunately, the result was that they developed the ability to "lie" and used it to "kill" each other. Interestingly, while 60% learned to lie after 500 "generations", only about one third learned how to spot the liars. * [[http://www.cracked.com/article_18697_5-things-that-are-being-automated-that-probably-shouldnt-be.html "5 Things That Are Being Automated That Probably Shouldn't Be"]] by Website/{{Cracked}} explains how this happening now, with consequences ranging from inconvenient to disastrous. * Researchers recently made a [[http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/nueroscience/how-to-build-a-schizophrenic-computer?click=pm_latest "schizophrenic" computer]] in order to study the possible causes of the disorder. While this was intentional, keep in mind that they accomplished it by accelerating the learning process. * As "Kenji the Stalker Robot" illustrates above, computer programs only do what they are programmed to do, not necessarily what you want. Any sufficiently advanced AI (or "optimization process", to be precise) is likely to be harmful to humans unless specifically programmed otherwise. A superhuman computer, when asked to get "as many paperclips as possible" might [[GreyGoo turn the entire world into paperclips]] before doing one nice thing for humans (Google "paperclip maximizer"). * An interesting example, Google allowed one of their more advanced "AIs" to browse the internet and look at whatever it wanted without any restrictions placed on it. It favored looking at pictures of cats more than any activity, which caught the programmers completely by surprise. * Possibly the last project attempting to build a true AI, Project Cyc has been, since 1984, attempting to build a database of the kind of "common-sense knowledge" that humans learn as young children and turns out to be really hard to input into a computer, and an analysis engine that can draw conclusions about what it knows. Results have been somewhat promising (at least, more so than every other attempt to build a true AI, all of which have failed, the last other approaches failing because of the lack of this very common sense knowledge, although they did produce useful things like expert systems and the basis of game AIs). The result doesn't seem to be very smart (so far), but does have some of the properties one would expect of an AI: It has a very non-human viewpoint on everything, and tends to ask strange questions and reach strange conclusions (such as asking if someone shaving with an electric razor is a person while doing so, as people don't have electrical parts, and concluding that most people are prominent, since most of the people it had been told about where prominent historical persons). Hampering this project is the fact that without working modal logic, needed for rigorous analysis of human language, it's ability to understand natural language is, at best, limited and imperfect.	http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/folderizer.php?target=Main.AIISACrapshoot	<urn:uuid:5fe3e925-95a3-4ea1-a131-5076d5a45eac>	en	0.948875	0.743579
Was Walt Disney A Saint, An Evil Sinner Or The Devil Incarnate? The Truth About Some Of Those Nasty Disney Stories! Some rumors regarding Walt Disney have lived on far too long. Was he a Nazi? A super-secret FBI agent? Is he frozen somewhere in a vault? And why does the Christian right hate his company so much? Karl F. Cohen takes on all these myths and more to set the record straight. Walt Disney (right), with brother Roy in the early 1940s, has been the object of speculation and false accusations through the years. © Disney Enterprises, Inc. Walt Disney and his corporation are either one of the most evil companies in the world or they have become the subject of countless false rumors, lies and hoaxes. Conservative preachers have warned their followers not to pollute their minds with the company's products and to boycott their theme parks. The National Enquirer has run numerous exposés including one article that began, "Walt Disney was one of America's most admired geniuses. But behind the scenes, he was a hard-drinking drug user whose behavior was so weird his brother Roy feared he was crazy!" Books and magazine articles claiming to reveal the truth have labeled the man an illegitimate child, an FBI spy, a Nazi sympathizer and many other shocking things. To understand why so many people are fascinated with spurious facts about the man and his company, one should look at their history. In the early 1930s Mickey Mouse went from being a troublemaker to become a virtuous member of society who could do no wrong. By the mid-30s the company's films were always wholesome family entertainment. In the '50s the company's TV shows further perpetuated their wholesome image by creating the myth that the first theme park was "the happiest place on earth." Walt's TV image was that of the perfect father or uncle. The public seems to have forgotten that the studio produced hard-hitting war propaganda that taught us to hate our enemies during WWII and that there was a nasty strike at the cartoon factory in 1941. No other Hollywood studio has the carefully manicured reputation that Disney spent years cultivating. As a result when other companies create controversial product, nobody seems to care. When Disney does something slightly irreverent, conservative family oriented pressure groups can and will protest. The problem is Disney has carefully created an image that is hard to live up to all the time. It is known to employees of the company as "The Franchise" and it stands for quality, wholesome entertainment. Song of the South (left) and Disneyland's Song of the South (left) and Disneyland's "It's a Small World" made the company an omnipresent image in the public's mind. © Disney. All rights reserved. When Disney doesn't live up to its image and the press becomes aware there is a problem, it is news. When a few people protested the release of Song of the South as a racist film in 1946, it was reported in many papers, but not on page one. By the time Hippies held an uninvited "be-in" at Disneyland in the late '60s, the park's overreaction to the "Hippie invasion" was front page news across our nation. When wildlife was killed by gardeners using and/or disposing of pesticides incorrectly in Florida, the company was labeled an enemy of the ecology movement and for several months the press seemed to take delight in revealing every human error that they became aware of at Disney parks. I maintain that certain members of the clergy, press and other groups and individuals have, over the years, exploited the public's fascination with the company to further their own self-interests. In some cases they have deliberately created false rumors. While some stories were probably started as harmless forms of humor, others appear to have been fabricated and/or spread by religious leaders to strengthen their point of view. What is even worse are elaborate hoaxes published in books and articles that report fascinating facts that scholars find impossible to confirm, but in some cases are easy to disprove. The sad thing is that a gullible public rarely learns they have been fed a lot of misinformation, so false myths become "well known facts." For instance, my wife has a 95 year-old aunt who once told me that she is sure Elvis is alive. Disney And Conservative Religious Groups When I was researching my book Forbidden Animation, I was shown a copy of The End Times from North Carolina. According to Joseph Chambers of the Paw Creek Ministries, The Lion King and toys relating to the film are part of a conspiracy to brainwash the youth of America into believing in VOODOOISM! The feature is described as "a picture of a pagan society...acted out in the panorama of idolatry and pagan bondages. The struggle between good and bad is a classic occult picture of black and white magic. Even the relationship of the king and his evil brother draws attention to the pagan suggestion that Jesus and Satan were brothers..." The writer says the appearance of a baboon shaman who used methods used by witch-doctors and the references to the worship of a sun god are further proof for his thesis. He warned that "almost every toy, television series, comic books or items targeted for the young generation is steeped in occult practices and psychic phenomenon." For people wanting more information the publication offered a booklet called Rebuilding The Foundation of Your Home. It "exposes the dangers of The Lion King, Barney, Cabbage Patch Dolls, Mighty Morphin Power Rangers." In the eye of the beholder: One group felt The Lion King represented voodooism and paganism; another group saw sex in the sands. © The Walt Disney Company. The American Family Association (AFA) is a much larger group warning America about the dangers of Disney. When I first read their journal in the late 1990s, it was carrying stories about their protests against Aladdin, Pocahontas and other Disney films. They were upset about images hidden in Disney animated films including a tower on the video tape box of The Little Mermaid (1989) that resembles a phallus. Other phallic looking spires are on the Aladdin video package cover. Let's face the facts, towers are usually considered phallic. They reported that The Lion King (1994) is supposed to have the word "sex" written in the sands of the desert somewhere in the film. They say the word is a subliminal image, so it may not really be there, but they think it is. They also noted that The Little Mermaid has a scene that depicts a priest becoming noticeably aroused while presiding over a wedding. While I've never seen these shocking images, a Website snopes.com has devoted countless hours searching for them. They have a large Disney section and have issued reports on which legends are true and which are false. Their report called "The Aroused Minister" concludes the bulge in The Little Mermaid is the preacher's knee. If you are not convinced here is what Tom Sito, the animator who drew the scene, says: "I animated the bishop in The Little Mermaid scenes and they are his knees. He's standing on a box that his long robes cover." The AFA determined that there were hidden sexual images in The Little Mermaid (left) and Pocahontas. © Disney. The essay on the aroused minister then attacks rumors about subliminal sex messages. They mention that a court case in Arkansas was brought against the studio for including images unsuitable for young children, but it was eventually dropped. Elsewhere on the site they say that the spelling of the word "sex" in a cloud of dust is "ambiguous." The only really naughty images they have found were in Roger Rabbit, which wasn't released as a Disney film (it was a Touchstone release rated PG) and 2 frames of a barely visible topless woman in a moving background shot in The Rescuers. This is a great site and it reports on dozens of myths about Disney not covered in this article. The AFA's research into naughty things hidden in Disney animated films resulted in a major find that was announced to the world, January 12, 1996, in a press release that read: "DISNEY BLASTED FOR USING THE 'F' WORD IN DONALD DUCK CARTOON." Anybody who can understand what Donald Duck says is an amazing linguist, but the Reverend Donald Wildmon, president of the AFA, says the word is in Clock Cleaners. He didn't believe the story until he listened to the duck's dialogue in the short. Wildmon claims Donald says, "Fuck you" to the clock when it comes to life and begins to taunt him. Wildmon calls this discovery "the latest in a growing list of anti-family incidents by the company that has long been a stalwart of family entertainment." The press release did not bother to say the cartoon was made in 1937 and didn't bother to note that for almost 60 years nobody seemed to have noticed the word in the film. Why? Does anybody really care now except people out to get Disney? The anti-Disney literature has uncovered a few interesting facts about the animated films, but mixed in with these amusing little stories is the real reason for the boycott -- homophobia. The Christian right is upset that Disney established a company policy extending insurance benefits to the live-in partners of homosexual employees, but not to unmarried partners of heterosexual employees. Disney also allows "homosexual celebrations" in the theme parks which means they allow gay groups to exercise their civil rights to organize and hold events just as they allow other social, religious and civic groups to hold organized events. To ban homosexuals from the park is against the law. The list of complaints against Disney also includes charges that the publishing company they own, Hyperion Press, has published books about gay culture, that "Michael Eisner is quoted saying he thinks 40% of Disney's 63,000 employees are homosexual, that Disney hired a convicted child molester to direct the movie Powder, and that Disney ended a 17-year-old traditional Christian Christmas display and replaced it with a secular 'Tropical Santa' display." They are upset that Disney has taken out ads in homosexual publications and that a couple of animals in The Lion King are supposed to be gay. The list of complaints also covers objectionable shows on Disney owned ABC-TV, Disney hiring Martin Scorsese to direct films (he directed The Last Temptation of Christ, a film several religious groups boycotted) and a Disney owned company made Priest, an "anti-Catholic" movie. The AFA called Kids, a film a Disney owned company distributes, "nihilistic pornography." An acquaintance that works in the public relations department at Disney says, "People lay in wait for us." The employee suggests that there are too many people who have nothing better to do with their lives than to study Disney films with the hopes of finding something that they can use to embarrass the company. The AFA has built a strong organization and their followers apparently are quite active doing what is asked of them, writing letters of complaint to TV advertisers. They have threatened boycotts of sponsors that advertise on TV shows they find objectionable. The shows are reviewed in the AFA Journal and the names and addresses of sponsors are on the pages that feature the reviews. The AFA has won some of their battles and lost others according to carefully researched articles. The articles also report the membership gives generously. In the 1990s the AFA began an on-going Disney boycott. A recent article from them begins with, "Profits from family entertainment products and theme parks are subsidizing Disney's promotion of the homosexual agenda. A boycott -- including even their good products -- is the only way to impact the company." To remind people of the dangers of watching Disney owned TV channels, their January, 2002 online newsletter had a headline that reported somebody said the F word on the "mouse channel!" While the AFA milks almost every naughty story they can find about the company, the Southern Baptists Convention in New Orleans expressed their displeasure of the Disney stance on gay rights by simply voting to boycott the company in 1996. In 1995 the Florida Southern Baptist Convention voted in favor of a similar boycott. Toy Story was the object of a boycott hoax and false allegations of sexual and drug references. © Disney Enterprises, Inc. The Toy Story Hoax In February 1996 a student of mine said that there was an organized boycott of Toy Story (1995) by the AFA because Woody, the name of one of the film's stars, is a slang term for the penis, and Buzz, the name of the co-star, was a drug term. The story came from a local weekly newspaper. Although the student believed that there was a real boycott of Toy Story, a quick call to Pixar revealed the story was a hoax and that somebody had started it with a letter published on the Internet. Pixar sent me a copy of the letter along with a memo from the American Family Association that denied they wrote the letter or that they had ever called for a boycott of the film. A few months later the AFA Journal praised the film as it "brought a broad audience of moral Americans back to local theaters." The hoax letter, dated December 5, 1995, claims to be from Donald Wildmon of the AFA. It called the first computer animated feature "obscene pornography disguised as 'family entertainment'..." The letter mentioned that the names of the film's stars were a sexual and a drug reference and that the film included "a sex-obsessed talking potato, a sex-obsessed Bo Peep doll who cannot keep her hands (or lips) off 'Woody,' and an Etch-a-Sketch whose 'knobs' must be 'adjusted' to produce results." It asked people to boycott the film. It also gave the wrong Website address for the AFA and said they had published an article about Toy Story in the December issue of the AFA Journal. There was no December issue and the November/December combined issue did not discuss Toy Story. The book that put the idea of Walt Disney as an FBI operative into the public's mind: Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince by Marc Eliot. Profiting By Creating Hoaxes A very profitable hoax that has no doubt damaged the reputation of the late Walt Disney is Marc Eliot's book Walt Disney, Hollywood's Dark Prince. Millions of people now believe Disney was an FBI spy, etc. thanks to this book. The fabrications in it will probably be passed on for many generations, just as many people have insisted for the last 35 years that Disney's body was frozen at the time of his death. If you believe it was frozen and will be brought back to life someday, you will be happy to know that Elvis was seen on February 30, 2002 in the Haunted House at Disneyland. Eliot's end-notes on the sources of his information are detailed at times, but he doesn't reveal how he discovered some of his most important "facts." Eliot's scholarship has been called into question by several people. Diane Disney Miller, Walt's daughter, says, "There are more than 150 glaring factual errors." David Hilberman, who was interviewed for the book has been quite adamant about his being misquoted by the author. I've also asked dozens of former Disney employees if any of Eliot's claims that Disney was sexist, racist, Fascist, anti-Semitic, heavy drinker, etc. were true. Some think some of the rumors might be true, but nobody ever saw him expressing negative feelings toward any race, religion or creed. The worst things I found out is that he swore from time to time and was addicted to tobacco. If he had a bias against a group of people he was smart enough not to express those opinions in public. I know a woman Eliot consulted when he began his research. She says she told him that there was a lot of dirt on Disney somewhere, but she didn't know what most of it was. She also could not confirm that any of it was true, but she was sure that if he searched hard enough he would find a wealth of information. I believe he didn't find much, but since he had invested a lot of time in the project and wanted to write a best seller exposing Disney's past, he invented it. As for the woman, she was motivated to tell him what little she knew because she hated Disney. She had never met or worked for him. Her hatred was based on her late husband's feelings about the studio. He had been laid off after going on strike in 1941. Disney held a grudge against most or all of the strikers and she never forgave Walt for what he did. It didn't matter that she didn't begin going out with the man she married until ten or twelve years after the strike. Some of the questionable things she told him are presented in the book as true facts. The closest I came to confirming some of Eliot's material was when I interviewed a man who said he had worked on Snow White, Fantasia and other features as an animator. His yarns were so amazing that I checked with the studio and found out their records showed he had only worked there for about 6 months in the camera department. I later found an old Motion Picture Annual that included him in their Who's Who section. His biography said he was only at Disney in 1937. For Eliot and others who insist Disney became an ultra-conservative after the strike and that he hated Jews -- explain why he hired and worked closely with writer Maurice Rapf from 1944-'46? Disney knew Rapf was Jewish, had a left-wing background and possibly that he had traveled to Russia in the 1930s. I've interviewed Rapf several times while writing Forbidden Animation and when I've asked him about Eliot's claims he could not confirm any of them. When Eliot's book came out I was researching the contents of Disney's FBI file. In his book Eliot falsely reported the contents of FBI documents to weave his yarn about Disney and the FBI. For example a newspaper article in the file dated November 10, 1940 said that Disney was in Washington, D.C. for a two-day visit to see the sights over a weekend. He had been in the South doing research for a film that eventually was titled Song of the South. Eliot saw the article and claims that, "On November 10, 1940, Disney apparently struck the following deal with the Bureau. It appears that in exchange for its continuing assistance in his personal search to find out the truth of his parentage, Walt agreed to assist Hoover's crusade against the spread of communism in Hollywood by becoming an official informant of the FBI. His initial contact was..." Nothing in the FBI file suggests that any of this information is true and there are no blacked out memos from this period of time. So where did Eliot get his information? Eliot claims that the two tasks he knows Disney undertook as a spy were to fly to New York City in 1943 and 1944 to attend left-wing cultural events. Eliot says Disney then returned to Los Angeles each time and wrote reports on the events for the FBI. While Disney or his studio donated money to the events and was listed as a sponsor (today we use the word "sponsor" when we give friends money for taking part in a walk-a-thon for a good cause), nowhere in the file, which includes news clippings, advertisements and two FBI reports about the events, does it say Disney was going to attend or that he attended either event. Eliot ignored the note that said the FBI reports were filed in New York (Eliot said they were filed by Disney in Los Angeles). The agent's name is blacked out on each report so we do not know who filed them, but why would the FBI ask Disney to attend the events? He wouldn't recognize who was in the audience, and the FBI had more than enough people available in New York to spy on the crowds. Compare Marc Eliot's version of the events of August 22, 1944 with the FBI report. Another distortion of the truth is Eliot saying Disney traveled to Reno and gave an "impassioned" speech. The FBI file says Mary Pickford read a telegram sent by Disney to the Reno event. Eliot quotes what he claims to be part of the speech, but actually he quotes the entire telegram! He knew full well Disney didn't travel to Reno. Disney was made a Special Agent in Charge - Contact (SAC-Contact) by the FBI on January 12, 1955, which means he was recognized as an unpaid reference person that they could trust and call upon for information. Eliot calls the position a promotion for Disney and claims (but offers no proof or examples) that other spies reported to Disney once he became an SAC-Contact. As a friend of the FBI he did meet with them on a few occasions. He made a four-part newsreel about them for the Mickey Mouse Club and he once discussed making a film with their help about child molesters. He probably provided them information from his company's employment records, probably answered general questions about subjects that he was an expert on and possibly suggested where they might go to find information about questions he couldn't answer. According to news stories that came out after Eliot's book was published, Walt Disney never knew he was called an SAC-Contact by the FBI. It was simply an in-house specification that they used to designate trusted friends. If you still feel there is something more sinister in the FBI calling Disney an SAC-Contact, you may recall that President Nixon met with Elvis and made him a drug officer. Photographs of the occasion have been published in recent years in history books and as postcards. They show Elvis and Nixon shaking hands. Does the meeting between Elvis and the President mean Elvis busted drug rings and turned in doctors who gave drug prescriptions to people with pill habits? Eliot was really sloppy in developing his yarn. At one point he writes Disney filed his last FBI report in 1956 and that after 1957 "he seized every opportunity to ridicule the Bureau's personnel and tactics in his films." If Eliot is correct and Disney was not of service to the FBI after 1956, why does a memo dated October 11, 1960, from the head of the L.A. office to J. Edgar Hoover ask that he send SAC-Contact Walt Disney an autographed copy of his book Masters of Deceit? In the memo and in others up until the time of his death in December 1966, Disney was called "a valued contact of this office." As for Disney trying to ridicule the Bureau, the only possible suggestion of this is the studio making two live-action slapstick comedies. In Moon Pilot, 1962, the script called for an FBI agent, but the character's title was changed to security officer at the request of the FBI before the film was made. The memos in the FBI file make it clear that Hoover disliked the idea of an agent in a comedy, but they also state that film critics and the public did not see the film as an attack on the Bureau. Read more conflicting information taken from Marc Eliots version and the FBI report. When Disney purchased the rights to That Darned Cat he called the FBI office in L.A. (7/8/63) to tell them he was going to do the film. A memo about the call says, "He stated that this is a comedy, and that the FBI will be depicted in a very respectful manner. He stated he would never do anything which would depict the FBI in any other light." When the FBI sends you a copy of Walt Disney's file they say there are pages missing and they don't explain what they might contain. Eliot decided they were sinister things, but most likely they concern more mundane problems. Several people testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee that they had been members of the Communist Party at the time they worked for Disney (1930s). Papers regarding those people would have been in Disney's file if they stated where the person worked. They are not in the records released to the public. Other pages might have been about the studio doing secret work for defense contractors during the Cold War (several had exhibits at Disneyland). The list of errors and fabrications can go on and on. Besides there being more problems with his facts based on the FBI file, it appears he has almost no knowledge or interest in animation history. He makes serious errors that anyone who has carefully read Leonard Maltin's Of Mice and Magic would notice. I also wonder how he managed to quote so many conversations that took place decades ago between people that had been dead for many years. Other Unauthorized Histories of Disney The first unauthorized biography appeared in 1968, two years after his death. Richard Schickel's The Disney Version outraged Disney fans as he claimed Walt couldn't and didn't draw Mickey Mouse (true) and he couldn't sign his name in the fancy script that is the company logo (true). The next unauthorized biography, Bob Thomas' Walt Disney, An American Original, stuck close to an authorized biography written in 1957. In 1985 Leonard Mosley's Disney's World revealed a dubious story that Walt was born out of wedlock in Spain to different parents. Mosley's research is so poor that he gives a detailed description of Winsor McCay's Gertie the Dinosaur, 1914, but his description describes a different film. On November 30, 2001, the Guardian in England published "The Spanish Connection," an extremely long article by their staff writer Giles Tremiett. He reports that Marc Eliot and Christopher Jones, son of a Disney press agent, are working independently to prove Walt was born in Spain. While the tale may make great reading for some, there is one bit of evidence the authors don't bother to explain. Walt looks too much like his brother Roy to be the bastard son of a Spanish nobleman and a washerwoman. Even if this were true, does anybody really care who his parents were? It is the man's outstanding contributions to 20th Century popular culture that is important. So What Sort Of Person Was Walt Disney? One of his former employees told me, "Walt was a genius, Walt was a friend, Walt was generous and Walt was a tough son-of-a-bitch. He was all that at once." He has also been described as an arrogant businessman, a self-made tycoon and a person with a large ego. He was raised in the early years of the 20th Century on small town, Mid-West values (he has been called a WASP). Roy and Walt were good businessmen, but they made several costly mistakes including going bankrupt in the 1920s and signing away the rights to Oswald, their silent screen star in 1928. Their early mistakes helped shape the way they did business once the company was on the road to success with Mickey Mouse as their star. Walt was said to be justifiably proud of his rise from shoestring productions to being the head of a major Hollywood studio. Walt (left) and Ub Iwerks, circa 1932. © Disney Enterprises, Inc. Walt Disney misled the public into believing he was the artist responsible for all those wonderful short films. His legend is so erroneous at times that an art gallery in Florida once sent out a flyer claiming they were selling valuable Disney limited edition cels by the man who invented animation. He didn't invent the medium nor did he design or animate the first Mickey Mouse (I assume you know about Ub Iwerks' importance -- if not see Leslie Iwerk's terrific book and video, The Hand Behind the Mouse, about her grandfather). Disney scholars say he was a good animator, but by the mid-20s he was more valuable to the company as a producer. Ub Iwerks was a business partner and head animator until he left Disney in 1930. Walt was a brilliant producer who understood the value of making the best possible product. Major studios in Hollywood are said to be happy if 1 out of 8 or 10 films turns an impressive profit. Disney's track record was much better than that (at or close to a 100% success rate). He understood the value of having a carefully crafted script. He knew how to motivate his production team to create the best possible characters, sets, costumes, props, etc. He was also the visionary who put together the team that created Disneyland and Walt Disney World in Florida. He was a genius who produced exceptional family entertainment for most of his life. I suspect that Walt was naive politically. It appears he didn't understand how others felt about being underpaid and not getting the expected bonuses after the initial success of Snow White at the box office. He certainly didn't agree with these ideas and other labor issues that were raised before the strike. Disney's handling of the strike at his studio in 1941 suggest he lacked the complex skills needed to successfully negotiate a timely resolution of a major labor conflict. It appears his anger and hatred of those who opposed him probably prevented him from reaching an acceptable compromise. Resolution came after others stepped in and he left the country. The company's conservative attitude about women employees in the 1930s was to mainly hire them for low paid jobs in the ink and paint departments. Disney did on rare occasions hire women as artists or designers. The list of women who were better paid artists included Mary Blair, Sylvia Moberly-Holland, LaVerne Harding, Retta Scott and several others. Although one would call the attitude sexist today, it was the norm in industry at that time and I wouldn't call Walt or the company racist or sexist for their employment practices before WWII unless you clarify the statement and say the vast majority of American companies had similar attitudes about hiring women. Also, the animation industry grew out of the male-dominated newspaper business so many people probably assumed animators were guys like the cigar smoking newspaper men in The Front Page (1931). Maurice Rapf tells an awful story that he says Walt told him about why he became a Democrat. In his youth a few sons of local Republicans beat him up and poured hot tar on him because his father didn't vote Republican. As for Walt's feelings about Fascist Germany, Eliot says he regularly attended meetings and social events of the American Nazi party. The statement is probably a gross exaggeration of the truth, but he did in fact meet with Fascists including Germany's most celebrated filmmaker, Leni Reifenstahl, when she visited Hollywood in 1938. Her L.A. visit was protested by people with strong anti-Nazi feelings and several studio heads decided not to meet with her. Walt's main motivation to meet her may have been to find a way to recover money owed his firm by his German film distributor. A book recently published in Germany says Roy and Walt went to Germany in 1937 to try and retrieve over 135,000 Reichmarks owed them (they were on a tour of Europe promoting Snow White). They may also have lobbied to get Germany to lift its ban on importing films from the U.S. Their visit to Germany was unsuccessful. Since the brothers were capitalists, I suspect any positive feelings they might have had about Hitler were replaced by hatred for the SOB that was robbing them of their share of their films' income in Germany. Their anti-German sentiment is quite obvious in their WWII propaganda films. While touring to promote Snow White in Germany, Roy and Walt might have tried to recover lost money or to lobby Germany to lift its ban on U.S. films. © Disney Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. The questionable theory that Errol Flynn was a Nazi spy comes from Charles Higham's book Errol Flynn, The Untold Story. Perhaps Eliot decided that if Higham could have his Nazi, he could have one too. As for Walt the anti-Communist, he and other studio heads were called to testify before Congress in 1947 about Communist infiltration in the film industry. Walt's statements were sincere but somewhat naive. I doubt that he read a great deal about politics. A knowledgeable person might not have said, "I believe he is a Communist... I looked into his record and I found that No. 1, that he had no religion and No. 2, that he had spent considerable time at the Moscow Arts Theater studying art direction or something." He was then asked, "Any others Mr. Disney?" and he replied, "Well, I think Sorrell is sure tied up with them. If he isn't a Communist, he sure should be one." A few minutes later he said, "In my opinion they are Communists. No one has any way of proving those things." I do not believe his reasons for calling people Communists would hold up in a court of law, yet his public testimony did damage the careers of several people. His testimony was quoted in a successful campaign by conservatives to put Tempo, an animation studio in New York run by two of the four people Walt identified as Communists, out of business in the early 1950s. Disney In The Coming Years Considering Disney has become our nation's second largest media conglomerate, it is logical that the number of pot shots taken at this corporation will increase. Disney may eventually be the subject of exposés about giant corporations trying to control the media and the way we think, just as William Randolph Hearst has been the subject of several books and the feature Citizen Kane. I'm sure some ministers will continue to find fault with the corporation and tabloids will have lots more nasty stories to share with us in the coming years. That sort of journalism is stupid, however millions of people buy into that part of our culture so, unfortunately it will continue. Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince by Marc Eliot. New York, NY: Birch Lane Press and Carol Publishing Group, 1963 ISBN 1-55972-174-X (US$21.95) Karl Cohen teaches animation history at San Francisco State and is the author of Forbidden Animation: Censored Cartoons and Blacklisted Animators in America, McFarland, 1997. Portions of this article are from his book and from his review of Eliot's book published in the Society for Animation Studies Newsletter, May, 1993. For more information about Disney myths see his book (available from Amazon.com) and visit snopes.com. Disney's FBI file can be seen online at apbonline.com/media/gfiles/disney. You may also want to visit Websites of the American Family Association and Paw Creek Ministries. Cohen wants to know if people who prevent kids from enjoying Mickey Mouse and Snow White are being un-American?	http://www.awn.com/animationworld/was-walt-disney-saint-evil-sinner-or-devil-incarnate-truth-about-some-those-nasty	<urn:uuid:6897373d-ec61-4fb6-ae4e-275d57d12569>	en	0.981582	0.080045
Legendary Catching Guide by NitemareDragon Version 3.17, Last Updated 2013-09-17 ___ ____ _ _ ____ _ _ ____ _ _ ____ _ ____ ____ ____ ____ ___ \|__] \| \| \|_/ \|___ \|\/\| \| \| \|\ \| \|___ \| \|__/ \|___ \|__/ \|___ \| \ \| \|__\| \| \_ \|___ \| \| \|__\| \| \\| \| \| \| \ \|___ \| \ \|___ \|__/ < - L E G E N D A R Y C A T C H I N G G U I D E - > ____ _ _ ___ _ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ _ _ \|__\| \|\ \| \| \ \| \|___ \|__\| \|___ \| __ \|__/ \|___ \|___ \|\ \| \| \| \| \\| \|__/ \|___ \|___ \| \| \| \|__] \| \ \|___ \|___ \| \\| - BY NITEMARE DRAGON \| VER 3.17 \| LAST UPDATE 09/17/2013 - This is a guide on catching the rarest and hardest-to-find Pokémon in the Kanto region. In this guide, you will find details about each Pokémon, including where it is, how to get there, what you need to get to it, its abilities, held items, and even the best way to catch it. Important Notes The main thing to remember is that catching legendary Pokémon requires time and patience. Do not expect to catch any of these Pokémon with just a few Ultra Balls. Keep in mind that if you accidentally knock out your target shut off the game and try again. Most legendaries will disappear if it faints. It is always good practice to save your game before you fight these Pokémon. Navigating this Guide To find specific information in the guide, click a link in the table of contents. Also, press the HOME key on your keyboard to return to the beginning of the guide. Guide Symbol Key There are some symbols that represent important or useful information in the header. Here is an example of a Pokémon section header: Symbol Key E4: This Pokémon requires defeat of Elite Four. B: This Pokémon can be used in the Battle Tower/Battle Frontier in Ruby/Sapphire & Emerald. M: This Pokémon was normally obtained through Mystery Event. Recommendations for Legendary Hunters Tips and tricks aspiring hunters should know before combat. A. PokéBall Types and Usage There are many different types of PokéBalls to choose from, and a few have special abilities. Some are better suited for certain types of Pokémon, while others work best when certain conditions are met. Since this is a guide on catching legendary Pokémon, I feel it is necessary to teach you the best times to use different types of balls. Trust me, continuously tossing out Ultra Balls may seem like the best course of action, but it isn't the most efficient. By using your PokéBalls intelligently, you can not only save time and money, but help cut down on frustration. Well then, let's begin. PokéBall: This would be the most basic Ball type available. This is the Ball you used at the beginning of the game. This type is not efficient enough for catching legendary Pokémon. Premier Ball: A basic PokéBall with alternate coloration. Just as useless for legendaries as its older brother. Luxury Ball: A padded ball that makes the caught Pokémon like you a bit more right from capture. Has the same catch rate as a standard PokéBall, so it is just as useless for legendary Pokémon. Great Ball: Great for wild Pokémon, but not so great for legendaries. Ultra Ball: The overused standard for Pokémon catching. This is the best "normal" type ball to use against legendary Pokémon. Nest Ball: Works best on weak, low-level Pokémon. Net Ball: Most useful for Water and Bug type Pokémon. Dive Ball: High catch rate for all Pokémon found underwater. Repeat Ball: This Ball's power is tripled if you are facing a Pokémon that you have captured before. Timer Ball: This Pokéball's power is increased the longer the battle takes. Master Ball: Catches its target without fail. I recommend a large supply of PokéBalls before attempting to capture ANY legendary Pokémon. They are very difficult to contain, and will take as many as 200 or more PokéBalls to capture. I find a combination of Ultra Balls and Timer Balls are very effective, since Timer Balls climb to maximum strength after about 25 turns. If you try 50-70 Ultra Balls and still cannot capture your target, use a Type-Specific Ball such as Net or Dive Ball if you can. If that is not an option, or you run out of those, start throwing Timer Balls. The reason I suggest throwing so many Ultra Balls first, is due to the catch rate calculation done by the game. The more PokéBalls you throw at a single Pokémon, the easier it will be to capture. If you save your strongest PokéBalls for later (in this case, Timer Balls) you will have a higher success rate than one who continuously throws Ultra Balls. B. Survival Supplies It is very important to remain stocked in healing, reviving, and status curing items. You may not think theyre important, but you will when you find yourself with one Pokémon left, staring down an annoyed and powerful legendary. By keeping these items with you at all times, you will ensure that such a problem will never happen. HP Recovery: Hyper Potion x25 - or- Max Potion x25 It is good to keep your Pokémon full of vitality to help them help you hold a defensive line while you fire a barrage of PokéBalls at your target. Holes in your defenses will lead to failure. Status Recovery: Full Heal x15 or Full Restore x30 Status Recovery is not always an issue when it comes to fighting legendary Pokémon unless it makes weakening your target difficult. It is generally a good idea to carry a lot of Full Restores, since they heal status effects AND HP at the same time. Revival: Revive x20 and/or- Bitter Root x20 When facing legendary Pokémon, there are times when the Pokémon defending you will fail to stand up to an attack. A good strategy is to revive the key Pokémon in your team that provide an excellent defense, and heal that Pokémon to full health while the legendary is preoccupied with a lesser part of your team. When the pawn is knocked out, send the primary defender back out and continue the assault of PokéBalls. Miscellaneous Items: PP Restore and/or Leppa Berries x15, Escape Rope x5, Super Repel x35+ Many legendary Pokémon have the ability known as PRESSURE, which causes you to burn Power Points (PP) much faster than normal. If you rely on a specific move to keep your target legendary at bay, be sure you have a way to restore lost Power Points in the middle of the battle. Escape Rope is useful for after you catch a Pokémon, or if you decide you need more supplies before facing one. Use it within a cave or dungeon and you find yourself back at the surface. Super Repel is a wonderful tool. All wild Pokémon weaker than the level of your party leader will leave you alone. I say Super Repel instead of Max Repel because you get more steps of Repel action for your money with Super than you would out of Max. Max Repel is overpriced and you would be wasting money by purchasing it over Super Repel. C. Bring the Right Pokémon to the Fight An often overlooked part of preparation is your team. Obviously you want to ensure you have all the TMs and HMs you require to make it to the Legendary Pokémon, but you should also prepare your team for the Pokémon itself. Most of the time, it is obvious what type of Pokémon youre about to face (Regice being an Ice type, Groudon being a Ground type) and you should plan your defense according to what you will encounter. Think about type effectiveness, and bring Pokémon that are resistant to the types of attacks you will receive. In most situations, I supply Type 1 and Type 2 of each Pokémon, as well as the names of each attack it knows. This shall be a powerful tool if you follow the above advice and plan ahead. Frequently Asked Questions This lists common questions that I receive from readers, and hopes to clarify such questions for future readers. Please be sure to read this section before you ask me a question through email or otherwise; it might just answer your question for you. • How do I get such-and-such cheat device? I am in such-and-such country. • WE DO NOT CONDONE THE USE OF CHEAT DEVICES. That aside, I do not know how you can get cheat modules if you are not in the U.S. or U.K. The two most popular devices, Gameshark and Action replay, may not allow such transactions. Please check their sites for more information: Action Replay: www.codejunkies.com Gameshark: www.gameshark.com • What are Pokémon Events? • These events vary in size and type, but typically Nintendo gives out free Pokémon for GameBoy Advance and DS Pokémon games. Previous events included Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Deoxys, etc. Such Pokémon are given in the form of TICKETS. The RAINBOW TICKET, for example, allows you to go to Navel Rock and catch Lugia and Ho-oh. These tickets are "handed" out wirelessly during the Events through the MYSTERY EVENT feature as the prize for attending. You have to catch the Pokémon yourself by going to the island with the ticket. Please remember that Nintendo no longer supports Events for the GBA games. • How do I get such-and-such Pokémon? • If the guide simply does not help you catch the Pokémon, or you just did not understand my walkthrough, I will be glad to help. If there is a Pokémon not covered in the guide (even if it is not a legendary) that you want to ask me about, by all means, do. I will help. ---- / _ _ _ _/_ _ / )__/_ / ' _ / _ '_/_ ---- -- (__(-(/(-/)(/(// (/ (__(//( /)//)(/ (__)(//(/(- -- _/ / _/ Pokémon FR&LG takes place in the Kanto region, where winding caves and sprawling cities wait. Please remember that, if item balls can be found on the path to your legendary Pokémon, I will only mention the item balls that will not take you too terribly far from your path. You will have to explore the area yourself more thoroughly later if you wish to obtain them all. Zapdos [E4/B] The legendary bird of thunder, this Pokémon is hiding at the abandoned power plant. This area is infested with Electric Pokémon, including Magneton and Pikachu. -PokéBalls: Ultra Balls (40+) -Items: Paralyze Heal, Repel Power Plant (Route 10) To access the power plant, you will need to go to the Pokémon Center on Route 10 (Rock Tunnel) and travel north from the Pokémon Center. Push your way through the grass above the ledge, follow the fence to the west, and use SURF on the body of water to the north. Follow the body of water to the east, and then follow it to the south. Once you are able to land the shore to the south, proceed south and then west along the strip of land to find yourself just outside the Power Plant. Walk inside and save your game at the entrance. From there, travel north and grab the MAX POTION item ball among the rocks. Proceed around the corner, around the S bend, and go east. After passing the walls, go south around the rocks. Continue around the bend leading south, but do not grab the item ball farther to the south unless you want to fight an Electrode. Head east, along the corridor, navigating around the strings of rocks. To obtain TM25 THUNDER, head south into the corridor along the southernmost wall where you see oil drums. Return north to your path and head east again, fending off the persistent Electric Pokémon. At the corridor's end, begin heading north along the eastern wall of the Power Plant. Do not be tempted by the Item Ball in the room directly north from the end of the passageway, because the one on the left side is really a level 34 Electrode. The item ball on the far right of the room is a THUNDERSTONE. Continue west, then north on your path to Zapdos. When the passageway ends, head south one room, then west. Head north one room, then west again to find yourself at the far top-left corner of the Power Plant. It would be wise to save your game at this point, just in case you knock Zapdos out (or it knocks you out). Proceed south into the darkly colored room and greet Zapdos, who replies with a screech and a battle. Zapdos (Power Plant, Route 10) Zapdos may take up to 45 Ultra Balls or more to catch, so prepare for a long battle. Make sure you brought Paralyze Heals or this will be a difficult battle. Once the battle is over, with Zapdos in hand, exit west from the Zapdos room to find a shortcut out of the Power Plant. Capturing Zapdos Though Zapdos is an Electric-type Pokémon, paralyzing it is still an option, if not an effective battle strategy. I find that above all other status effects, paralyzing appears to work the best against Zapdos. Be warned, however, as Zapdos knows DRILL PECK, a Flying-type move. I think an Electric Pokémon would be a good choice to use against Zapdos after you have its health whittled down to red, especially a Pokémon such as Magneton. MOVE SETAttack Name - Type Thunder Wave - ELECTRICAgility - PSYCHICDrill Peck - FLYINGDetect - FIGHTING Articuno [B] The legendary bird of ice, this Pokémon is isolated on the Seafoam Islands in the middle of the ocean. -PokéBalls: Ultra Balls (20-30) Locating Articuno To get Articuno, you need to be at the Seafoam Islands! Fly to Fuchsia City, and head into the Pokémon Center. Heal up and get some strong Pokémon, especially those resistant to ICE type attacks. Exit the Pokémon Center and head directly south. SURF at the shoreline and continue south along the sea route. Head west upon arriving in Route 20. Continue west and land on the strip of land. Travel around to the west side of the island and enter the cave. Seafoam Islands (Route 20) Now, head north, and up the steps, grabbing the item ball near the ladder, containing ICE HEAL. Head back south to the entrance, then east. Get behind the boulder and use STRENGTH to push it into the hole. Go back to the ladder where you got the ICE HEAL, but do not go down the ladder yet. Rather, pass the ladder and head east. Go down the steps to encounter another boulder, hole, and ladder. Push the boulder down the hole, and then go down the ladder north of the hole to see the boulder you just pushed down, and another hole. Push the boulder down this hole too, and then go back up the ladder. Travel around, South, then North a bit, then west and go down the ladder. Go south a bit, and then follow the path. Go up the set of steps to the North, and then east until you run into an item ball containing a REVIVE. Continue west and then North, avoiding the ladder for now. Head east, then south, pushing the boulder down the nearby hole. Return north, and follow the path west and south. Head down the ladder you passed earlier. Go east and down the steps to the South. There is an item ball to the West, containing a BIG PEARL. Return east and go up the ladder, taking the nearby item ball for a WATERSTONE. Return down the ladder, then travel all the way East. Head down the ladder. Beneath you, you should notice several boulders and holes. This is where we must go. Travel east, south, east, and south, then down the steps to the west. This part is tricky; we need to push at least two of the boulders into the holes. \| \| KEY -------\| \| 1-4: Boulders numbered from 1 to 4. \| 3 x21\|------- 0: Holes. \| 4x X: Part of the rock barrier. \| Ox O --- \| -: Part of the wall barrier. \|xxxxxxxxxxxxx \| Push Boulder 4 down into the hole below it. Push Boulder 3 all the way against the West wall. Push Boulder 1 up against the North wall. Push Boulder 2 down ONCE. Go around the right side of the boulder and push it towards the hole, THREE times. Then walk around to the North side of the boulder and push it down once into the hole. Follow the boulder down the hole. Go northeast and land on the steps in front of you. Travel northeast until you find a sign and a ladder. Go up the ladder, and then up another ladder. Go down the steps to find another boulder. Push this one down the hole to the West, go back north, and down the ladder, and then back down the next ladder. Return southeast to go back to where you landed in the water. Use SURF to get on the water, and SURF west a bit. Save your game here, and then head north to discover an island with Articuno on it. Articuno (Seafoam Islands) Articuno is, by far, the easiest legendary bird to capture. My method was to body slam it with a level 41 Lapras (obtained at the SILPH CO.) until Articuno was weakened and paralyzed. I actually obtained Articuno quite quickly, using only two Ultra Balls; the first ball failed immediately, while the second ball nailed it. I'm sure that was only sheer luck on my part, but it should take only up to 25 balls to capture. MOVESETAttack Name - Type Mist- ICEAgility- PSYCHICMind Reader- PSYCHICIce Beam- ICE Moltres [E4/B] The legendary bird of fire, camped out on the top of Mt. Ember. -PokéBalls: Ultra Balls (30-40) Note on TM Requirement: ROCK SMASH will be obtained by following the walkthrough. Locating Moltres If you accepted Bill's offer after you beat Blaine on Cinnabar Island, then sail from Vermillion City to One Island and heal your team at the Pokémon Network Center to the north. If you declined Bill's offer to help Celio on the Sevii Islands, then beat the Elite Four and then do the island side quests. Once that is done, come back and follow these instructions. Now, exit the Network Center and head east to a body of water. Travel north along the body of water to arrive at Kindle Road. Continue north past the sign, past the three patches of grass, and deal with the Blackbelt trainers walking back and forth. After destroying them, enter the cave with a sign next to it (Ember Spa). Follow this path north (no wild Pokémon here), east, and north. Walk west and talk to the elderly man standing against the wall. He will talk about himself for a bit, then hand you HM06 ROCK SMASH. Shatters boulders like crackers, he says. All right then...walk to the center of the water to be fully healed, and then teach one of your Pokémon ROCK SMASH. Exit the spa and travel north to the body of water. Continue north along the water to reach the base of Mt. Ember. Mt. Ember Head north into the mountain/volcano. From here, you might want to talk to the Team Rocket members to the east. This will set the stage for your second island quest. Return to the entrance, and push the boulders out of your way. Continue north, then around to the east, then south. Break the two boulders blocking the first set of steps. Walk up the steps, then immediately turn left, travel west, and north to fight a Trainer. Dispatch your foe, and walk around him into the cave entrance he was guarding. Continue north into the next room, then northeast and up several flights of stairs. Now head east and south into the third room. Exit through the doorway to the south. Go west, then north up the steps. Get the items here if you want, but do not go south yet. Better yet, continue north up the narrow steps. Oh look, a boulder puzzle! XX X X 3 X X 21X XX X Push boulder 1 up, then boulder 2 left. Push boulder 3 left, and chase boulder 4 north and east. Save the game and continue north to face Moltres. Moltres (Mt. Ember) First of all, this birdie likes using AGILITY. It would make things considerably easier to put it to sleep. If you do not have that luxury, you will have to stick with paralysis. Secondly, I estimate 30 Ultra Balls will be needed to capture it, depending on your method. I notice it likes to use ENDURE as well, which guarantees that it will survive any hit with at least 1HP. If you can time a powerful attack just right, you might be able to leave Moltres with only 1HP left, which will make it even easier to capture. Keep in mind that Moltres FIRE SPIN keeps your Pokémon trapped for the duration of the vortex, so you will not be able to switch out your Pokémon if that move is in effect. MOVESETAttack Name - Type Agility - PSYCHICFlamethrower- FIREEndure- FIGHTINGFire Spin- FIRE NameType 1/2AbilityLocation ZapdosElectric/FlyingPressurePower Plant ArticunoIce/FlyingPressureSeafoam Islands MoltresFire/FlyingPressureMt. Ember Mewtwo [E4] The rogue child of Mew, this misunderstood experiment severely dislikes people (especially scientists). Mewtwo is hiding in the Cerulean Cave, which will only become available after you defeat the Elite 4 and complete the Network Center linking quest (obtaining the Ruby and Sapphire for Celio) on the Sevii Islands. -PokéBalls: Ultra Balls (50) -Items: Hyper Potion/Max Potion, Leppa Berries/Elixir/Ether, Revive, Escape Rope Locating Mewtwo Start in Cerulean City, and head north, crossing the Nugget Bridge on Route 24. After crossing the bridge, travel west, then south along the grass- covered path. You will reach a dead end here where the water meets the path; SURF along the water, following it along to the South along the turns and bends of the river. Before you reach the end, you will notice a patch of land, an entrance to cave. Hop onto the strip of land, and into the cave. From here, the dangerous path begins. [LVs. 50-70] HIGH LEVEL POKÉMON LIVE IN THIS CAVE! Make sure you are prepared before you enter this area. Upon entering the cave, travel north to the first body of water. SURF North, West, follow the bend to the West, then go all the way south, all the way west, then land on the area to the south with the rocks and item ball. The item ball contains a FULL RESTORE. Continue south and then head east and up the steps to the North. Follow the strip of land east, then North. Pass the large ladder and continue north, grabbing another item ball containing a MAX ELIXIR. Continue following this path west, then south, and follow the path until you reach an isolated ladder at the end. To get to Mewtwo from here, head West then south (then east) along the first fork in the road. Continue along this path until you reach another split. There are three paths at this point; go along the path farthest to the right. It will be down, right, and then North a bit. Once you cannot go North anymore, follow the path West until you reach a spot with ladder to the North. Go up the ladder. There is another ladder to the South here; go down it. Follow this path north a bit, then east, down the steps, east and north, and keep following the path, grabbing item balls along the way, until you reach a body of water. Save your game, then SURF on the water. A little ways west and north is a little island with Mewtwo. Be prepared for a harsh battle. Mewtwo (Cerulean Cave, Route 24) This is a considerably difficult battle. Mewtwo usually starts things off by using SAFEGUARD to protect itself from status effects. It consistently uses RECOVER when it is hurt, usually when it gets into the Yellow or Red zones. Mewtwo also unleashes a barrage of PSYCHIC and SWIFT attacks. Because of its level, it becomes difficult to match in terms of power or speed. Nintendo modified the AI on this monster since the old GBC games, and this time, they made Mewtwo quite brutal. With its combination of healing and devastation, it is fairly difficult to keep your Pokémon alive and Mewtwo the red zone at the same time. NameType 1/2AbilityLocation MewtwoPsychicPressureCerulean Cave MOVESETAttack Name - Type Recover- NORMALSwift- NORMALPsychic- PSYCHICSafeguard- NORMAL Mew [E4/M] This Pokémon was originally obtained through an event which is no longer available. It was provided through the Mystery Event feature as a Key Item, known as Old Sea Map. Upon displaying this to a ferryman, he would take you to Faraway Island, where you could chase a level 30 Mew around the tall grass, attempting to intercept its path to fight it. There are no known (legal) methods of obtaining Mew in the GBA versions of Pokémon. The Legendary Dog Trio [E4/B] You can only access the legendary dogs after you defeat the Elite 4. If you have ever tried to capture Latias or Latios in Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald versions, this Pokémon hunt will seem vaguely familiar to you. Only one of these Pokémon are available in the game, and which one you have access to shall be decided by your starter Pokémon. Locating the Dogs Unfortunately, the location of these Pokémon is entirely chosen at random. The Pokémon will be at a random spot somewhere on the main island or the Sevii Islands. Thats a lot of area to search. I have more bad news for you though: every time you enter or exit a building, fly to a new area, or move between routes, the Pokémons location changes. This means that it could show up at any point in time after beating the Elite 4, somewhere along a sea, grass, or mountain route. The trick to finding it is to run around and spark a few random battles, travelling back and forth along major routes until you get lucky and it appears. Keep in mind that if you fight one of the legendary dogs and you fail to capture it (unless you knock it out) you will be able to track its location and movement using your PokéDex. Preparing for the Hunt The legendary dogs are similar to Latias and Latios in the sense that they all run away at the first turn of battle. Therefore, capturing or disabling them is the only strategy available for these Pokémon. Your best options are disabling status effects or "blocking moves" and abilities. Status effects that will immobilize your enemy include Sleep, Freezing, and sometimes Paralyze. Two issues may arise from relying on status effects to prevent escape: Sleep and Freezing are not only difficult to inflict, but are temporary as well. Sleep will last about 3-5 turns and Freezing will last a random amount of turns (about a 30% chance that the victim will thaw out at the start of their turn). The issue with Paralyzing is that the enemy will only have a 70% or so chance of becoming immobile, with a major reduction in speed during the course of the paralyzed phase. The strategy to remedy these problems, naturally, is to use blocking moves or abilities to your advantage. Moves like Block, Fire Spin, Bind, and Mean Look all prevent the opponents escape. Block and Mean Look prevent the foes escape as long as the user remains active (meaning if the user faints or switches out with another Pokémon, the effect is canceled and the enemy can escape during their next turn). Moves similar to Fire Spin, Wrap, and Bind will last for 3-5 turns and prevent the enemys escape for the duration of the move (as well as cause a small amount of damage per turn) and will not fade if the user faints or switches out. The last option is a Pokémon with a blocking ability (such as Wobuffets Shadow Tag) which prevent the enemys escape as long as the Pokémon remains in battle (similar to Mean Look or Block, with the exception of the ability always active rather than the need to use an attack). As you can see, all of the above strategies have their benefits and flaws, so it is up to you, the reader, to decide which strategy you should useperhaps even combining the two strategies might give you an advantage, and added security in case something goes wrong. Keep in mind, however, that ALL of the above strategies, with the exception of Wobuffets Shadow Tag ability, require you to have a higher Speed rating than the enemy to work (or else the enemy will attack first, which will allow it to escape before you can even launch an attack). Furthermore, if you decide to use Mean Look, Block, or the Shadow Tag ability, keep in mind that if the Pokémon that triggered the move or ability faints or switches out, the trapping effect will no longer be active, which will allow the enemy to escape on its next turn. There is another issue that all three know the move ROAR. This will force your Pokémon to flee, and the battle will end. You must protect yourself with a move such as Taunt to keep it from forcing a retreat. A glitch exists in Fire Red/Leaf Green where, if a roaming Pokémon uses ROAR to escape/flee, it will disappear, and you will lose your chance to capture it. The legendary dog of thunder, Raikou. -Choose Squirtle as starter Pokémon. -Defeat the Elite 4 and gain access to the Sevii Island Ferry. Be sure to take a look at the Preparing for the Hunt section above for details. Raikou is an Electric type; therefore, it uses powerful lightning attacks when it is unable to escape. Avoid using Flying and Water type Pokémon against it, and be careful with Ground attacks. The legendary dog of fire, Entei. -Choose Bulbasaur as starter Pokémon. Be sure to take a look at the Preparing for the Hunt section above for details. Entei is a fire type; so, it uses strong fire-based attacks when it is unable to escape. Avoid Grass and Steel type Pokémon against it, and be careful with Ground- and Water-type attacks. And the legendary dog of water, Suicune. -Choose Charmander as starter Pokémon. Be sure to take a look at the Preparing for the Hunt section above for details. Suicune is the Water type legendary that uses Water and Ice type attacks when unable to escape. Fire and Ground type Pokémon are at risk during this battle, and be careful using Electric- and Grass-type attacks against it. Deoxys [E4/M] Deoxys is a Psychic type Pokémon that is hiding on the triangle-shaped Birth Island. -Auroraticket (Key Item) -Ferry Access Travelling to Birth Island After obtaining an Auroraticket, travel to Vermillion City Docks and talk to the sailor standing by the Ferry Access. Two options will show for you, Sevii Islands and Birth Island. Select Birth Island, and exit the port you arrive at, and travel north up the steps and into the middle of the island, where you will see a small black triangle. If you press A on one of the triangles four sides (I know a triangle only has three sides, but you can stand around it at four different areas), it moves with some strange beeping noises, and slowly changes color. You will notice that sometimes it will move back to the center of the island and change back to black. What you need is a specific sequence to anger Deoxys enough to fight you. There are many correct sequences, but this one I have created here works for all of the GBA games. Use this sequence: Now that you have provoked Deoxys, its time to capture it! Deoxys is only a level 30 Pokémon in this battle, so it shouldnt be too difficult to survive if you have Pokémon resistant to Psychic-type attacks. There isnt really a specific strategy to this; just the generic weaken and shower with PokéBalls. You may want to keep some PP restoring items close, as Deoxys Pressure ability will make you spend Power Points twice as fast as normal. NameType 1/2AbilityLocation DeoxysPsychicPressureBirth Island Jirachi [E4/M] Jirachi Was given out during a Pokémon event, so now it can only be obtained with a cheat device, by using an e-Reader Card, or from the Pokémon Colosseum Bonus Disc. If you obtain the Pokémon Colosseum Bonus Disk, once you complete the game, you can trade Jirachi from the Bonus Disc to your Ruby/Sapphire game. Jirachi is at level 45 when you transfer it from the GameCube. NameType 1/2Ability JirachiSTEEL/PSYCHICSerene Grace Celebi [E4/M] Celebi was given out in commemoration of the movie Pokémon 4 Ever, and was given out in an issue of Nintendo Power in the form of an e-Reader Card. Celebi can also be obtained from the Japanese Pokémon Colosseum bonus disc, in contrast to the English version of the Bonus Disc, which gives Jirachi. NameType 1/2Ability CelebiPsychic/GrassNatural Cure ___ __ ---- )__/_ _ _/ _/ (_ ' _/ /__) / _ _ ---- -- / /(// (/ /() / //)(/ / ()/((-//)()/) -- This section lists hidden or hard to find Pokémon, giving you walkthroughs on how to obtain them. Keep in mind that we only give information for Pokémon that can only be found in specific or non-obvious areas. If you want information for a Pokémon not listed here, then email us for help. Dunsparce [E4/B] Locating Dunsparce: Dunsparce can only be obtained at the Three Isle Port. Once you defeat the Elite Four, sail to Three Island and investigate the cave to the east. Talk to the generous man near the end for a nugget. Free 5,000P, and a rare(ish) Pokémon. You can't go wrong there. Exit the cave to the south of him and run around for a while in the grass. The ONLY Pokémon you will encounter here is Dunsparce, and this is the only place you will find it. NameType 1/2AbilityLocation DunsparceNormalSerene Grace/Run AwayThree Isle Port This is a decoder for the 26 letter English alphabet, plus a COMMA and PERIOD. This works with all of the Pokémon games for the GBA. This section will help you decipher the Braille displayed at the Dotted Hole and other places. - \|. \|. \|..\|..\|. \|..\|..\|. \| .\| .\|. \|. \|..\|..\|. \|..\|..\|. \| .\| .\|. \|. \| - - \| \|. \| \| .\| .\|. \|..\|..\|. \|..\| \|. \| \| .\| .\|. \|..\|..\|. \|..\| \|. \| - - \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \|. \|. \|. \|. \|. \|. \|. \|. \|. \|. \|..\|..\| - \| W\| X\| Y\| Z\| ,\| .\| VISUAL BRAILLE-> ENGLISH \| - \| .\|..\|..\|. \| \| \| The last two are COMMA and PERIOD. These dots\| - - \|..\| \| .\| .\|. \|..\| can be found in Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red, Leaf\| - - \| .\|..\|..\|..\| \| .\| Green, and Emerald Versions. \| - This section lists the change log for this guide; that is, the major changes that occur over the course of the guide's development process. Check through here to find out what has been updated between versions. Before Release 07/27/2009 - Added Jirachi to the Pokémon list. Finished the Dunsparce location guide, and finalized formatting for the initial release. After Release 10/14/11 Updated Jirachi section to explain the GameCube Bonus Disc in more detail. 10/22/11 - Applied format changes to comply with new features. Added Type information. 09/17/13 - Updated Raikou, Entei, and Suicune section -- a glitch exists that may cause problems with capture. Related Guides LCG = Legendary Catching Guide -Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire LCG (Available) -Pokémon Fire Red & Leaf Green LCG (This guide!) -Pokémon Emerald LCG (Available) -Pokémon EV/IV Level Guide (Development halted) -Pokémon Diamond & Pearl LCG (Active Development) -Pokémon Platinum LCG (Standby) -Pokémon Heart Gold & Soul Silver LCG (Standby) -Pokémon Black & White LCG (Not planned for development) To contact me for corrections or submissions for the guide, or to ask a question, email me at pokeguides (at) live (dot) com. -Use FAQ, Pokémon, or Guide somewhere in the subject so that your email is not automatically deleted. -PLEASE remember to supply a name you would like to be known as in your email if you submit info for the guide. If you do not, I will reply back asking for this info. If you fail to supply a name or username within ONE WEEK of your initial email, I reserve the right to use your information without credit. This has not happened yet, and I certainly hope it will not. -You may e-mail me for spelling errors, incorrect information, etc. If you do not fully understand how to get somewhere or how to catch a Pokémon, you can e-mail me, and perhaps I can clear things up. If you have information to ADD to the guide, you can also e-mail me and you will receive credit for your information if it is helpful (and correct). Before you hit that SEND button... PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU READ THE GUIDE THOROUGHLY BEFORE YOU EMAIL ME! I get many emails from people that overlooked information in the guide. Make sure that the guide does not already answer your question before you request help from me. Do not try to lead us into believing false information; we check all submitted information, and we have the ability to track messages if necessary. This document is ©2009-2011 NitemareDragon and the PokéGuides Team. You may not copy--in part or in full--this document without my permission. You may not disassemble, re-write, or otherwise modify this guide without my explicit permission. Any unauthorized reproduction of this guide will result in legal action. If you wish to use this guide in any website, magazine, etc. use the e-mail address in the Contacts information to ask. Most likely, I will allow you to do so... Only these websites (other than the PokéGuides website, which isnt quite ready yet) have permission to use and/or host this guide: www.gamespot.com (linking to the guide) That is it. No other sites. If you ask to host my guide, I will update the list in the next version. If this guide is found on any other site, PLEASE notify me...most likely they did not have permission if they are not on this website list. You have permission to print this guide for your own use offline. You may save the original file to your computer or external drive, if you do not modify the file without my permission. This is where I show all of my sources and give them credit for the info that they contributed. -The PokéGuides Writing Team: • NitemareDragon wrote the bulk of the information and did all of the testing and walkthrough generation. He also created the ideas and layout, and published the guide. • Vortexized helped gather information for several sections. • EPIC_FAIL999 contributed information about the ROAR glitch in Gen III's FR/LG, causing the roaming Pokémon to permanently disappear if ROAR was used. ___ _ __ __ __ (_ _/ (_ / _ '_/_ __ __ /__/)(/ ()/ (__)(//(/(- This document may be not be reproduced under any circumstances except for personal, private use. It may not be placed on any web site or otherwise distributed publicly without advance written permission. Use of this guide on any web site other than those listed in the legal section, or as a part of any public display is strictly prohibited, and a violation of copyright laws. 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The Gatekeeper 23. Darkness in the Depths Of an Undead Dragon, a Shadowborn Wizard, and Storming a Tower The dracolich struck the heroes hard, breathing forth a cloud of shadow that blew the vitality and strength from their bodies. Vayne had the sense to throw a protective black sigil over the creature, draining its strength even as it attacked. Thus the heroes weathered the attack well enough, but found that dark wraiths sprang up from the pieces of their souls burned off in the assault. Most of the wraiths looked like mere shadows, with two exceptions: Vayne’s wraith resembled her shadow self perfectly, and Tristan’s wraith looked like a gleaming silver-and-blue woman of unearthly beauty. It was, to him, a vision of his dead goddess, albeit with immortal hatred in her mad eyes. Bakkonn moved to heal the heroes from the strike, but Brandis unexpectedly struck him a resounding blow. The dragon’s mighty will had bored into his mind, dominating him and turning him against his fellows. As the monk halted the heroes’s charge, the dragon gave a rattling laugh through its fleshless throat and took off, borne aloft by great bone wings. With Bakkonn’s magic, Brandis managed to fight off the dragon’s dominating will, but the creature instinctively probed at all of the heroes’ minds throughout the battle. It seized hold of Vayne and forced her to attack Ysabelle, but the shadar-kai’s love for the girl was strong enough that she resisted and foiled her own attack. Enraged at what the dragon had almost caused her to do, Vayne teleported up to the creature, shattered its mind with a strike of her swordmagic, then teleported back to the ground, landing in a crouch as the creature slammed into the stone behind her. Downed and stunned, the creature took a moment to collect its wits again (while Brandis and Tristan tried to strike it effectively, then turned its dominating will upon the mortal that had dared smite it from the sky: Vayne. Ysabelle cried out in warning, but in the grip of its will Vayne dropped her defenses and did not resist as the dragon’s claws burrowed into her body and she spewed blood. Then the dragon hurled her into a previously unseen patch of what looked like liquid darkness on the ground. In her shadowed state, Vayne could see the darkness for what it was: a ravenous void that drained the life of creatures within it. The greedy blackness tore at her vitality, leaving her on the brink of death. Fortunately, Bakkonn’s magic came to the rescue, healing Vayne before the dragon could finish her off. Bolstered by his power and Tristan’s divine mettle, the wounded shadar-kai managed to fight off the dragon’s will long enough to limp out of the void pool. No sooner had she done so, however, than a spell burst in their midst, knocking the heroes staggering. A new threat had emerged: a dark wizard sniping at the heroes from the cliff side where none could easily reach him. To make matters worse, the dragon renewed his breath weapon and loosed it on the group. Tristan, Bakkonn, and Brandis focused on the dragon, leaving Ysabelle and Vayne to deal with the wizard. Tristan hit the beast with silver fire and Brandis continually struck it with his ki-charged fists and his cane. Among the three of them (and Vayne’s aegis magic), they managed to drive the creature off, then destroy it before it could escape. The dragon’s last words before it turned to dust were a promise that it would rise again. As the creature fell, Vayne cried out, drawing their attention to the other half of the battle. Vayne and Ysabelle fared not nearly as well against the wizard. His magic and the lingering dracolich’s will kept Vayne paralyzed, and she could do nothing but watch as the wizard struck hard against Ysabelle. When the girl fell to her knees, Vayne could only rage against the magic imprisoning her. The wizard mostly laughed at Ysabelle’s attempts to strike him, parrying her magic with ease. Finally, when the wizard conjured a floating claw that ripped open Ysabelle’s midsection, and Vayne summoned enough fury to move. It was then that the dragon fell, distracting the wizard, who suddenly saw the battle turning against him. In his distraction, he let the imprisoning magic fade from Vayne, and she leaped up the cliff side, teleporting up to pursue him. The wizard retreated through a magical gate in the rock. Before he could close it—even as the words were on his lips—Vayne struck him with her silver sword, banishing him temporarily to a demiplane. Her victory was short-lived, however, as the wizard’s two bodyguards—bodaks clad in black plate armor—surged through the gate and attacked. Vayne faced them, staring them down warily, then struck. She hit and disoriented one, but the second parried her. Then she teleported back off the cliff and rolled to her feet, joining the rest of the heroes below. The bodaks hurled themselves from the cliff and rushed the group, but the dragon had been dealt with and all five of the heroes could join forces against them. They handily dispatched the bodaks, but were then left with a dilemma: what to do about the wizard? Vayne recognized the man as Maren Black, a powerful wizard from Gloomwrought who had the ear of Prince Rolan, ruler of that city. No doubt he would not want the powerful church of the Raven Queen to know he wielded powers over undead, and Vayne said she wouldn’t put it past him to track them down to end their potential threat. Ultimately, the heroes decided that instead of leaving a potentially deadly enemy at their back, they would treat with the wizard to see if a peaceful resolution could be reached and they could part without fighting one another. To this end, they followed the trail of the wizard’s power, up a rocky cliff covered with the bones of what could only have been previous enemies of the wizard. Two nightwalkers surprised the heroes on the cliff, but were handily dispatched through Bakkonn’s divine magic and some ferocious fighting on the part of the heroes. Brandis continued to be reckless beyond measure, wandering into his second ambush of the day. The party attempted to convince him to exercise caution, but he scoffed at the suggestion, and immediately walked into a warding that paralyzed him temporarily. Vayne and Ysabelle were able to suppress the power of the wards long enough for the rest of the party to get through, but the tail end of the magic caught Ysabelle, rendering her helpless as a flopping fish. Triggered by the heroes’ proximity, a bone golem pulled itself together out of the surroundings and attacked. They dispatched the creature, though not without difficulty as Brandis and Ysabelle were still fighting off the paralysis. After a long trek to get to the wizard’s holdfast, they recognize a symbol of death carved on the locked door, which would activate upon any who opened it without invitation. They addressed the doors, which took on the wizard’s semblance. For the destruction of his golems, Maren Black insisted the heroes owed him a great debt—50,000 gp to be precise. The party balked at this, saying that they were attacked first, and now he is charging them for defending themselves from his minions. He offered an alternative arrangement, which was to take one of their lives instead. Vayne attempted to negotiate with him, offering to perform a service out of their good faith, but the wizard refused the offer. He asked Vayne repeatedly who she was, but the swordmage said nothing of the issue (he might potentially have recognized her, though she’d been gone from Gloomwrought more than 20 years). Ysabelle attempted to intimidate the wizard, resulting only in him stating that it would be his mission in life to hunt her down and destroy her. This was too much for the heroes, who decided (for better or worse) that Maren Black would have to die. Ysabelle opened his doors with the Gatekeeper Staff, and the battle was on. The heroes immediately found themselves attacked by four disintegration turrets, which nearly demolished Brandis. Working together (and with considerable help from Bakkonn’s healing magic), they were able to get inside and disable the turrets, only to find themselves confronted with a summoning circle that loosed dread wraiths upon them. They slew these creatures as well and deactivated the circle, confident in their ability to defeat any of Maren Black’s attempts to destroy them. What awaits next? 22. A Traitor Revealed Of Mind Flayers, Allies Slain and Gained, and a Last Parting The battle was joined, with the heroes fighting desperately against the psychic superiority of the mind flayers. One illithid in particular proved very effective at asserting his will over the heroes, forcing his mind upon them whenever they managed to shake off his power. He kept Brandis at bay, holding his mind like a vice as the monk tried to wriggle free. The drow plunged his blades down at Brandis, but the monk managed to dodge around his strikes. Meanwhile, Henri strolled up to Ysabelle and convinced her he was not one of the enemies, but only pretending to be a mindslave. She fell for his bluff, only to earn a blade in the stomach, from which blood leaked. Furious, Vayne used her magic to pulled Ysabelle away just in time to avoid Henri’s follow-up strike. Tristan strode forward and summoned his silver fire, which went wild and blasted not only all the foes, but also himself and Fiona’s cover, making the wall melt and crumble under its attack. Vayne teleported across the battlefield, using the shadows to corral the enemies into one of the corridors where she could hold them at bay. This would have worked wonders, had not her mind been weakened by the constant barrage of voices she heard in her head—the whispers of someone long lost to her—which allowed one of the mind flayers to stun her. She fell to her knees, helpless before the drow’s poisoned blades and—far worse—the mind flayer’s tentacles, which began digging into her skull for her brain. Matters grew worse: one of the mind flayers blasted into Fiona’s mind and made her strike herself with her fire magic, burning a hole through her midsection. As she stood stunned at the ferocity of the hellfire, Henri followed it up with a vicious thrust into her right lung. Fiona faltered, hovering on death’s door. Fortunately, Brandis and Tristan came to the rescue from two sides, the monk thwarting Vayne’s would-be slayers with his impressive movement skills, and Tristan protecting Ysabelle and Fiona. Brandis knocked away the mind flayer that was feasting on his companion, allowing her to recover—only to face the Thoon Hulk, which tried to eat her as well. She had the wherewithal to escape this time, however, teleporting over to cut the lead mind flayer’s silver cord with her silver sword, banishing him to a nether realm while the fight progressed. The other mind flayer blasted her with another mind attack, and she fell back, dazed. The Hulk slunk off into the shadows. A healing touch roused Fiona, who promptly blasted the drow to ash, but faced a dominated Tristan, who was operating at the beck and call of the mind flayer. He brought his axe down into her, putting her down once again. Hurting his ally gave him the angry strength to fight off the mind flayer’s influence, however, and when the Thoon Hulk came barreling out of the caves, it was a furious half-dragon, half-elf paladin he had to contend with, rather than a half-dead tiefling. The creature tried to knock him aside, but he smote it back and extended his divine power to help Vayne shake off the mind flayer’s assault. She stepped closer, encompassing the group in her protective warding. The heroes fought their way into a tight group, repelling the attacks of their multitude of foes: the hulk, Henri, and a single mind flayer. Fiona thirsted for revenge against Henri, who had stabbed her nearly to death with his blades, but Brandis insisted the group not kill him. Henri bluffed his way into striking Vayne, remarking that “there’s a shortage of perfect breasts in the world,” to which she replied “and you won’t be ruining these any time soon” and parried his attacks. He managed to jab her with a blade that came out of his boot, and blood seeped from the wound. Wracked in pain, Vayne jaunted into her shadow form and began talking to someone the others could not see, saying “I’m sorry,” and “I didn’t mean it. I couldn’t stop him!” Unnerved even in the depths of his mindslavery, Henri hurried over to strike Ysabelle. Vayne shrieked in terror and screamed “Not again! I won’t lose her again!” When Henri struck out at Ysabelle’s throat, Vayne invoked a warding sigil around him and sent him across to attack the remaining mind flayer. The blow would have killed the creature, but it lashed out with its mind and turned Henri’s blade on himself. The halfling opened his own throat with a vicious strike, and his blood flew across the battlefield. The mind flayer blasted everyone with an illusion of barbed tentacles, seemingly paralyzing them. Ysabelle lashed out at the creature, but it teleported away before her psychic attack could take root. Brandis fought off the illusion and rushed over to strike the mind flayer. As before, it pulled Henri into the blow, and Brandis sacrificed a sure strike for the sake of avoiding a deathblow. Vayne drew the mind flayer close, so that the heroes could attack it, but at that moment, a twist drew their attention: Fiona purposefully and maliciously burned Henri to death before Brandis’s eyes. In the moment of shock, the mind flayer grasped Vayne’s face with its tentacles and sought to dig out her brain. Brandis watched as Henri fell, dead, and turned his wrath on Fiona. He shoved the mind flayer away (freeing Vayne in the process) and struck Fiona with his ki energy, knocking her senseless. Seizing upon Brandis’s rage, the mind flayer forced its mind into his, taking control of his body. Under its command, Brandis brought down his fist to crush Fiona’s skull, but—as fate would have it—missed when she rolled just wide. Tristan cut the mind flayer down with his axe, breaking the mind control, and the fight was over. The paladin also healed Fiona with a healing potion, and she sputtered back into wakefulness. The party stood for a moment, staring at Brandis, who stared murderously at Fiona. Vayne drew upon her protective magic to wrap her aegis around Brandis and held out her hand toward him. “Don’t do it, Brandis,” she said. “Don’t—” But it was too late. The monk exploded into motion, first kicking Vayne in the chest to knock her aside, then twisting around Tristan to knock Ysabelle senseless with a gentle tap. The paladin lashed out with his axe, but Brandis eluded the blow and vanished. He reappeared standing over Fiona, and Vayne used her shadow infused protective magic to sap his strength so he could not kill her. Vayne pleaded with him to think about what he was doing—that he was declaring them all his enemies—but the monk would not listen to reason. His eyes burned with the need to avenge his former friend. Tristan healed Fiona, then struck at Brandis, but his shadow cloak enveloped him and he came after Fiona again. This time, she could defend herself, and managed to strike him with her fire magic. Brandis staggered, and Vayne and Tristan barely managed to knock him down. They stood panting over his unconscious form, nearly sapped of all strength. Tristan immediately set to checking his wounds, confident the fight was over, but Vayne wiped blood from her face, turned to Fiona, and informed the tiefling that the time had come for her to leave. Fiona was startled, but Vayne explained that there was no way she could travel with Brandis anymore, and Vayne had sworn to protect her—something she could not do if she remained. Ysabelle, sick about what was going to happen next, fled into the caves, where Garal Kai tried to convince her to leave with him—to escape her clearly insane companions. The girl refused, and the genasi fled by himself. Fiona challenged Vayne that cutting her loose in the lowerdark in her current state was as good as a death sentence, but Vayne remained adamant. She put her aegis over Fiona and warned her that if she took an offensive move, she and Tristan would not hesitate to cut her down. The tiefling paused, considering, then shook her head. They were forcing this choice upon her. She summoned her power to kill Brandis, but Vayne cut her down with two swift strikes of her silver katana. The tiefling crumpled to the ground, bleeding to death. Vayne gave Tristan a long, poignant look, and said “Do what you have to do.” Then she left to go find Ysabelle, who had hid and seemed catatonic. She saw Garal Kai briefly, but there were no words exchanged—none needed to be. Vayne found Ysabelle and reassured her that they hadn’t meant to scare her—they were making the best out of a bad situation. The girl managed to respond, and Vayne hugged her close and covered her ears so she would not hear what Tristan did next. He hauled away the unconscious Brandis and turned to blast Fiona as she lay dying, putting her out of her misery in a gout of lightning and frost. As Vayne wept quietly, Ysabelle hugged her back. The heroes regrouped shortly thereafter, and Brandis regained consciousness of his own accord to find Vayne leaning hurt against the wall, Tristan searching the bodies of the dead, and Ysabelle gazing at Fiona’s charred remains. The monk apologized for attacking them, saying that he could not let them do what they were doing. Vayne smiled crookedly and said, “Likewise, and for the same reason.” The monk frowned, not understanding. Vayne put a hand on his shoulder and said, “you are a good man, Brandis, but if you had murdered Fiona, then you would be something less than that.” Tristan and Ysabelle nodded their agreement. The monk nodded, touched that they thought so highly of him. The aftermath of Fiona’s death was not without its own unsettling flair. Finally, her body burned away in purple flames, revealing the sigil of Cyric branded upon her chest. The heroes heard her crying out for mercy as the dark god claimed her soul, and they realized what had come to pass. In the previous days, when Fiona had seemingly lost her powers, it was because the God of Lies had slain her primordial patron and taken his place. He’d offered her a new pact: serve him as a spy on the Gatekeeper in return for her powers restored. Ultimately, they realized, Fiona would have taken the completed Gatekeeper Staff and used it to free Cyric from his prison. Whether Fiona meant it or not, when she had decided to fight them, that had been a noble choice, in a sense—sacrificing herself rather than going through with Cyric’s schemes. “So,” Tristan observed, “I suppose that turned out for the best.” Any further rumination the heroes might have done was cut short, however, when cries of pain from the mind flayer prison caught their attention. Inside, they found a halfling bound upon a table, cut open and showing signs of having been experimented upon. The surgeries to enhance his limbs and skeleton appeared to have been in progress when the heroes attacked the mind flayers, leaving the halfling in considerable pain. They finally calmed him (with the pommel of Vayne’s sword) long enough that they could heal him, and when he came to, he was able to speak, he introduced himself as: “The name’s Bakkonn. ’Cuz I bring it home.” Wary of taking a new and clearly unstable companion, the heroes nevertheless welcomed Bakkonn into their number, as they couldn’t very well leave him in the lowerdark. The heroes took stock of their situation: Fiona was dead, Garal Kai (their guide) was gone, and Bakkonn (new and crazed) had joined them. They were very weary after the battle with the mind flayers—particularly Tristan, who had spent so much of himself in the silver fire blasts—but they couldn’t very well rest in the illithids’ territory. Instead, they decided to go back the way they had come, through the area of shadowdark, and find shelter on the other side. The trek was grueling and caused both Ysabelle and Tristan to injure themselves in their weariness. They had been traveling for some hours when Tristan heard a familiar voice say “all too easy.” The heroes turned to find Sunic among them. The elf had been following them since they initially entered the shadowdark, and had chosen just this moment to steal the Orb of Reality. In his arrogance, he paused to appraise us, and Tristan launched into a diatribe against him, which Sunic did not expect. The heroes revealed that they had bigger concerns—namely, Cyric was in the process of being freed, and he was going to come for that Orb when he had the chance. The heroes tried to convince Sunic to aid them, but he said instead that they would part ways and he would trouble them no more. Expressing genuine concern for his well-being (also a surprise to Sunic and everyone else), Vayne pleaded with him to reconsider, saying that if he took the Orb, she guaranteed it would be the death of him. Sunic considered this, then smiled slightly and said something that made her flinch: “See you in a moment, Vayne.” He was referring, of course, to her doppelganger, whom he had openly declared his ally. Then he vanished. The heroes decided there was nothing they could do about Sunic just then, so they pressed on, hoping for shelter. What they found instead was a cave filled with poison gas and some sort of dark entity. They backtracked and rested just outside the cave, but inside the shadowdark. The gloom of the Shadowfell infused them, making Bakkonn jittery, Brandis recklessly confident, and Vayne sluggish and disinterested. Ysabelle and Tristan were also affected, but they hid their conditions far better. The halfling and monk went on ahead, into the cave filled with poison mist. They found there a dracolich, which Brandis (in his Shadowfell addled state) could not help but insult with his bravado. Once again, when Vayne, Tristan, and Ysabelle rejoined their companions, it was into a battle. 21. Gloom of the Shadowdark Of Guides Lost, Seeping Darkness, and Ancient Powers The heroes pressed on, only to find themselves walking through increasingly oppressive gloom. Without knowing it, they had entered into the Shadowdark—the Shadowfell’s equivalent of the Underdark—and the darkness of the world of shadows seeped into their minds and souls. Brandis became paranoid and possessive while Vayne became quarrelsome and muttered to herself once again, as she had in the Lowerdark. Tristan spent most of his time in communion with Mystra, while Fiona clung to Morthos as though she would fall without his support. Garal Kai grew even more distrusting of the others, and Morthos himself grew angry—even wrathful. In short, the gloom heightened everyone’s insecurities and flaws of character. Only Ysabelle was unaffected by the gloom, and she grew extremely uneasy if, for once, she was the sane one. This oppression led immediately to tragedy: Morthos stared menacingly at Garal Kai, looking to plant a dagger in his back. Morthos told Fiona that she was better than all of the heroes and she no longer needed them. When the tiefling argued that they were useful and even her friends, the drow cast her off to collapse to the ground. Brandis lightly pushed him away from Garal, and the drow immediately blasted him with his warlock powers. Before the rest of the party could intervene, the two were fighting. Brandis pushed Morthos off a nearby cliff but when he tried to catch him, he missed the grab. The enraged drow plummeted into the impenetrable darkness. Vayne shoved Brandis and almost knocked him off the cliff as well, but the monk caught himself on the stone. The two of them looked about to fight, but at that moment the rest of the party intervened and pulled them apart. After Ysabelle’s plea for sanity, Vayne finally shook off her irrational temper and explained the Shadowfell’s effects to the heroes. She said that the shadar-kai fight against the gloom of the Shadowfell by committing themselves fully to their course of action. They staved off ennui through emotional extremes, pain, and violence. She urged everyone to throw themselves into battle whole-heartedly, and that way they could stave off the Shadowfell’s gloom. Afterward, she apologized to Brandis and told him she did not hold him responsible for pushing Morthos off the cliff. The monk nodded mutely, but it was clear he still blamed himself. Vayne gave him a reassuring hug. Garal Kai had fled after what happened to Morthos, but the group quickly found him once more. He professed that he could not trust them, and they said that was his decision. At this point, if he accompanied them, it was his own choice and his own moral responsibility to rescue Henri or not. Tristan talked him into coming along, and the genasi reluctantly followed them once more. Also, before the next leg of the journey, Vayne proposed that the party pick a leader, upon whom the ultimate responsibility for decisions would rest. With her background as a pirate captain and leadership role with J’Div, she might have been expected to suggest herself, but she kept silent and passively accepted the party’s decision to place the mantle of leadership on Tristan. For now, at least, the paladin would be the leader of the group. The heroes continued on through the Lowerdark, emerging from the Shadowdark into a place of glowing crystal. Ysabelle began experiencing terrible headaches, and Vayne offered to connect to her mind to try to protect her. This proved a failure: Vayne was hurt, and Ysabelle was not much improved. Finally, the source of her headaches was revealed: a chamber of crystal infused with psychic energy that enhanced her powers. Ysabelle told everyone they should leave immediately, but too late: mind flayers and umber hulk slaves ambushed them, and battle was joined. The heroes dispatched one mind flayer quickly enough, and the second fled while the hulks attacked. Finally, the heroes won the day, but the other illithid had not reappeared. They took a moment for Garal Kai to commune with the crystals (as an earthsoul genasi), during which Brandis and Fiona scouted ahead stealthily. The two came upon a mind flayer and a thoon hulk, and ambushed the two before they could get away. These foes proved extremely capable, however, and the tide quickly turned on Brandis and Fiona: more so when the escaped mind flayer reappeared, with mind thralls in hot pursuit. The rest of the heroes caught up to them, only to see the mind flayer reinforcements arrive: a mind-reamed drow warrior and a certain half-starved halfling. They had found Henri, and now he was going to kill them. 20. Sharpening Blades in the Lowerdark Of Guides Found, a Rival Discovered, and a Nest of Hook Horrors After defeating the matron mother and sealing the gate to the Demonweb Pits, the heroes turned to the last piece of business remaining in the drow stronghold: the warlock who had first fought them, then aided them in exchange for not being plunged in a vat of acid. The warlock—one Morthos by name, or at least so he claimed—suggested that his aid would be essential in escaping the fortress unharmed, and the heroes accepted this bargain. Morthos proved a capable guide, and when the heroes returned to the relative safety of the Middledark, an offer was made: if he would agree to guide them through the perils of the Underdark, they would give him a share of the rewards they gained in their quest. The heroes bickered and argued telepathically about what bargain to offer, and finally Vayne stepped forward as the party spokesperson to make the deal. She revealed to Morthos their goal (the Well of Living Steel) and its general location (the Lowerdark). The drow balked at the concept of descending that far, but Vayne assured him that he could leave whenever he determined that the risk was no longer worth the potential gain. Morthos accepted this bargain, and the heroes continued on with a guide. The drow warlock led the heroes to the fastest route to the Lowerdark he knew of (though he personally had not ventured down it): a great abyss filled at the bottom with what he called “deep horrors.” Along the way, Fiona traded notes with Morthos about arcane pacts, revealing her Elemental Pact to him as he told her of the Dark Pact to which he was sworn (apparently, his patron is some sort of “Great Cloaker”). She even offered some of her own lifeforce to power his spells—should the need become dire. Morthos was surprised by this and asked for clarification about her offer, to which Fiona cheerily returned, “well this way, if I happen to catch you in one of my fire spells, I won’t feel too badly about it.” Morthos: “Good to know.” Her casual promise of potential harm seemed to intrigue the drow, and he subsequently made more obvious overtures to her (including caresses in the heat of battle or when no one else appeared to be watching). The heroes came to the great abyss Morthos had promised. Tristan plucked up Ysabelle to fly down, Morthos conjured a moving disk of force to carry himself and Fiona (once she cuddled up to him), while Brandis worked together with Vayne to make the long climb down into the pit. Briefly, Vayne lamented J’Div’s disappearance, as she would ordinarily rely on his strength for situations like this, but with his monk training Brandis proved an excellent climber, skittering down the walls and leaping to outcroppings with ease. There was never any danger, but the trip was grueling. When they got deeper, they began to hear echoing sounds as of metal scraping against stone as though to sharpen itself. It was not long before they found what awaited them: a hive of hook horrors. Fiona and Morthos blasted away a group of the horrors to clear a path, but the creatures instinctively exuded clouds of inky, blinding darkness to cover their skittering escape. When clouds of darkness began creeping up the walls after Vayne and Brandis, a fight seemed inescapable. Steel was drawn and battle was joined: a blurry, disorienting battle fought primarily in the darkness the creatures exuded. Brandis was quickly surrounded with the creatures, though he could hold his own thanks to his great training. Vayne meant to guard him, but Ysabelle and Tristan landed to join the combat, and the shadar-kai had a new priority: protect Ysabelle from the charging creatures. Fiona and Morthos lingered on his disk of force, striking from safety fifty feet about the cavern floor. The heroes fought a nearly endless onslaught of the beasts, somewhat hampered by the inability to see. Without their protective darkness, the hook horrors might have posed an insignificant threat, but their natural blindsight made them deadly combatants. To make matters worse, when injured, they roared with deafening, paralyzing force, and so the heroes often couldn’t hear as well as see. Brandis and Tristan were both badly hurt in the combat (the monk partly thanks to one of Fiona’s spells, an erupting volcano of flame that immolated three of the hook horrors) and Vayne was grievously hurt, fighting desperately to defend the others. Ysabelle narrowly avoided being impaled by a hook horror’s claw through use of the staff: with its power, she foresaw her own death and stepped differently, thus averting that awful second in time. In what seemed an uncharacteristic display of self-sacrifice, Fiona conjured her hellgate between the relative safety of Morthos’s platform and the cavern floor, stepping down and allowing Ysabelle to teleport up to safety (though the warlock was considerably less pleased with her company than that of the alluring tiefling). Fiona revealed her true intentions on the ground, however, when she blasted a hook horror that charged her with repelling flames that killed it outright. Her fire powers were extremely useful in the battle. At the height of the battle, Vayne began murmuring to herself, saying things like “No, it wasn’t my fault—I didn’t mean it!” When Ysabelle connected to her mind, she found it filled with horrible distress and a fleeting image of a small, pale, dark-haired girl surrounded in a dark corona of flames and staring menacingly at her. A chill of fear ran through Ysabelle at the sight, but before she could interact with the image, Vayne discorporated into her shadow self to carry on the fight, severing the mental connection and leaving Ysabelle with only a lingering chill of empty shadow. She sent an ardent surge into Vayne, giving her the strength to carry on in spite of her wounds, all the while a little bit nervous about the little girl she had seen. Was that Vayne’s image of her? Or something else entirely? In her shadow form, Vayne offered no insights through her mind or expression. The heroes repelled the first wave of attackers, and looked for a way to get to the exit—across the cavern. The hook horrors appeared to be repelled by the scent of their own dead, so the heroes smeared themselves with the blood and guts of their kills and pressed on, with Fiona holding off the foes with fire at need. The hook horrors’ hesitation proved short-lived, however, particularly when the heroes stumbled across what appeared to be an overgrown hook horror at least twice the size of the others. Their cautious walk became a run, and soon enough every hook horror in the hive was after them. Tristan, who had spent so much of his vitality on the battle and on his own silver fire, would have fallen to a hook horror attack, but Vayne revealed a new swordmage power that allowed her to switch positions with him and parry the attack. They ran. Outside the hook horror cavern, the heroes relied upon Morthos to guide them to a safe place to rest. The found a suitably defensible, out-of-the-way cave where they could hole up for the night. Tristan, who was wavering on his feet already, passed out on the spot, and it took Vayne and Brandis working together to take his armor off so he could rest effectively. The monk was skeptical of the whole process, but the shadar-kai reassured him that she had done this sort of thing often enough for J’Div, who similarly pushed himself with alarming regularity. Brandis cautiously asked if she wanted to talk about the genasi, but Vayne hardly seemed to be paying attention to him, being wrapped up in a conversation she seemed to be having with herself. He finally managed to rouse her, at which point she declared that she hardly felt like sleeping and would gladly take first watch. As the heroes bedded down, Brandis and Ysabelle discussed Vayne and whether her recent erratic behavior was a result of the influence of Godsbane. Ysabelle asked Brandis if he wouldn’t mind taking the sword from her for the time being, to which he replied by showing her that he was carrying it in his pack—in an extradimensional space, no less. Vayne, who had been meditating, spoke up: “I know that look, Brandis—and no, it isn’t the sword. I’m just weary. That’s all.” Despite her claims, Ysabelle and Brandis kept a careful watch on her, and while she said no more aloud in waking, she murmured in her sleep, again apologizing to an unseen listener for some great sin. In the morn, Brandis again discussed being a better person with Fiona, mostly in the context of choosing right and refusing to do wrong, whatever the consequences. Tristan was too exhausted to take part in the discussion, having dreamt of the prison of air the night before and been unable to rouse himself. Surprisingly, Morthos participated in the conversation (perhaps jumping to Fiona’s defense?). The drow was seemingly intrigued by surface world morality, which he thought incompatible with the basic truths of life in the Underdark. In particular, he did not understand why Brandis thought it was so important not to kill an “innocent” for the sake of his goals—“in the Underdark,” Morthos said, “there are no innocents.” The monk stubbornly held to his firm beliefs in right and wrong, and Vayne (who had not slept well) eventually snapped at him: “If you did not learn the error of your beliefs in the downfall of Funikashi, then nothing we can say will change your mind.” Brandis inquired as to what she meant, but Vayne refused to speak of it. Shortly thereafter, the heroes came upon an earthsoul genasi wandering in the dark. After a moment of tension diffused by Vayne’s suggestion of food and drink for the lost delver, the genasi introduced himself as Garal Kai. It came out that he was the stonewhisperer guide for Henri and his expedition to the Well of Living Steel, and he revealed that the halfling had been taken by mind flayers in the deeps. Several of the heroes were at first relieved that their rival searcher was not beating them to the Well, but Vayne and Brandis immediately said: “We have to save him” at the same time, albeit for different reasons. For Brandis, saving Henri was a question of morality—he did not wish ill to the halfling, but if anything wanted to return him to the surface unharmed and empty-handed. Vayne had more pragmatic reasons: if Henri had been captured, it meant his compass had fallen into the hands of the mind flayers, and they would be a far worse enemy with the Well of Living Steel at their command. The heroes’ next move was clear: find the mind flayer band that had taken Henri, rescue him if possible, and recover the compass. The genasi agreed, being unwilling to leave anyone to such an awful fate. Before they moved out, Fiona asked Brandis if he wasn’t willing to sacrifice Henri—not an innocent by any means—and the monk replied: “If he is to die, it will be at my hands.” 19. The Dark Portal Of Mistakes Paid For, a Friend Vanished, and a Dark Elf’s Madness No sooner had the battle ended than Tristan turned upon Fiona and dealt her a withering blow to the face with his axe’s haft. Before Vayne or J’Div could intervene—Brandis could have stopped it, but saw that the other party members were ambivalent about what to do so he stayed his hand—the paladin followed up the strike with a blow to the knee that shattered Fiona’s bone and tissue. She collapsed into agonized unconsciousness. Vayne pounced on Tristan, stunning him briefly with her swordmagic, buying the group a moment. She was unsure if he had been attacked by some external entity that was guiding his actions, but Brandis said he understood what Tristan was doing, J’Div nodded silent approval, while Ysabelle refused to say anything. Vayne lodged her protest of condoning Tristan’s actions, but she relented that they would speak to him. When the paladin came to, he explained that Fiona had undertaken a series of terrible decisions that had placed them in immense danger, including voluntarily using Cyric’s skull and—potentially—summoning his avatar into the Realms. Vayne countered that they didn’t know what had happened, but Tristan argued that he felt it in his bones and wasn’t going to let Fiona run around free until they were sure. Pointing out her shattered leg, J’Div observed that Fiona wasn’t likely to be running around anywhere for a while. Tristan immediately set to healing her at Vayne’s request, and the group repaired her wound as best they could. They continued on, taking Fiona along more as a prisoner than a companion. The tiefling eventually woke up in a world of agony from her ruined leg, about which Tristan did not show any sympathy, nor did Brandis, J’Div, or even Ysabelle. Vayne made friendly overtures to Fiona, including soothing some obvious pain she was feeling. The tiefling adamantly refused to discuss her situation, stubbornly asserting that she was perfectly fine, despite an instance where her fire powers failed to function. She grew obviously alarmed but said soon after that she was all better and could work her magic with ease. The rest of the party earned her venomous tongue, particularly Ysabelle, whom Fiona accused of being a monster they were tolerating in their midst, while they (hypocritically) keep Fiona captive. Ysabelle was upset by Fiona’s accusation and withdrew from the party for a little bit. Vayne went after her and assured her that she had done the right thing—the only thing she could have done under the circumstances. As they progressed through the Underdark, things continued as they had been, though at least Ysabelle was drawing no more awful sigils. Tristan kept having the dreams, and lost more and more sleep each night. Vayne took back the red-bladed Godsbane from J’Div and sought to learn more about it. The blade spoke to her, promising great power if she would only appease it by killing. It flattered her, suggesting she was the most worthy one to wield it, though she detected a hint of qualification in that department. She thought of Sunic, and the blade recognized the image: yes, Sunic, its former wielder, was more worthy than Vayne, and the shadar-kai knew that the blade would desert her for Sunic if it ever got the chance. Though it was difficult, she put the blade away, refusing to have anything to do with it. Eventually, Vayne tried to convince Fiona to test her powers, even going so far as to threaten her with an attack against which she would have to defend herself, but ultimately it did not succeed. Fiona shut down and would not communicate with anyone. It was speculated that she might have violated her pact with her master (infernal? The group was unsure), and thus her powers were not working—or perhaps she was simply hiding them until the right time. Vayne returned to Fiona and apologized for her seeming threat—she promised the tiefling she would never let her come to harm, if she could help it. Fiona accepted this promise stoically. That night Tristan attempted to draw them all into his dream, with mixed results. Ysabelle and Brandis realized that the man trapped in the prison of air was not Tristan, but rather Linn, Tristan’s father. Ysabelle had a severely negative reaction to the dream and lashed out, harming all of the sleeping companions, who awoke in psychic pain. When they woke, they found J’Div had vanished—the genasi had been on watch, and while his pack remained, he himself was gone as though he had run off to deal with a threat. The heroes immediately broke camp and searched for J’Div, only to find traces of genasi blood in one of the caverns (though not enough to be from a death) and a lingering melancholy that Vayne recognized as the influence of the Shadowfell. It looked as though Sunic had taken J’Div—perhaps killed him. In the days after, the grim reality set in. Not only were they days behind Henri and his guided party, but Fiona had seemingly betrayed them, they’d summoned an avatar of Cyric, J’Div was gone, and now Sunic seemingly knew where they were. Possibly, J’Div had sacrificed himself to stave off Sunic’s attack, and possibly he wasn’t dead, but there were meager rays of hope indeed. Distraught, Vayne returned to meditating upon Godsbane. Brandis and Ysabelle watched her suspiciously, recognizing her psychological distress and fearing the sword was influencing her. One night, as she sat meditating, Vayne said (in dark tones): “Brandis.” The monk came over, a little hesitantly. “Do you want me to kill Fiona?” Vayne asked. Brandis was shocked, and Vayne continued: “The sword . . . it needs to feed. Just let me do this . . . The urge. It’s just . . . so . . . much . . . ugh!” Then she writhed on the ground, feigning demonic possession, and ultimately collapsed into laughing. Ysabelle grinned, though Brandis hardly thought this was funny. Ultimately, Vayne smiled at him, reassured him she was just fine, and gave him Godsbane to carry for assurance. She claimed to be upset over J’Div’s uncertain fate, but she wasn’t about to do anything rash. The mood was sufficiently lightened that Fiona felt comfortable coming forward to talk to everyone, and a discussion was had regarding their path forward. A truce was called—a fresh start, particularly to Fiona’s relationship with Tristan, and the group agreed that the only way to achieve their goals was to cooperate. Brandis adamantly insisted on a promise from Fiona to try to be a better person, which the tiefling avoided offering. She made it clear that while she acknowledged his concerns, there was no way she could promise not to do whatever was necessary—including the murder of innocents—to save her family. How well this newfound peace among them would stick, none could say. Shortly thereafter, the heroes ended up in a drow ambush. They handily fought off the first wave of dark elves, whom it turns out had been sent to test their abilities. A drow warlock appeared and sent his pet umber hulk to grab Ysabelle—it appeared he had been after her specifically. Fiona remained in hiding and did not use her fire powers, whether they were available or not. The heroes defeated the drow and Tristan blasted the warlock with silver fire, rendering him incorporeal with no known duration. The warlock recognized he was overmatched and instead invited the heroes to an audience with his mistress, Matron Mother Baen, at an outpost nearby. In return, he would grant the heroes information related to their quest. The heroes went with him, during which he continually badgered them with questions—particularly regarding Tristan’s worship of what he knew as a dead goddess, Mystra—until Vayne turned incorporeal and slapped him, demanding silence of the “lowly male.” The warlock suggested that with a different skin, she could be a matron mother herself. They arrived at the outpost’s audience hall, filled with spiders and drow servitors, where they were greeted by the Matron Mother of whom the warlock had spoken. The drow woman promised an exchange of information if they were to perform a service for her: opening a certain set of double doors behind her throne. Apparently, it had been pre-ordained that Ysabelle would arrive and open the doors for the drow. The heroes bargained to learn what was behind the doors and to increase the information they would get, but the Matron Mother was a shrewd negotiator and they could not get her to budge. Ultimately, she wanted to know how Ysabelle would open the door, which the heroes did not want to tell her, as that would entail a battle as the drow sought the gatekeeper staff. Finally, Ysabelle agreed to do it, provided everyone leave the room. She did so, and the doors ground a little bit ajar, loosing a cold, deadly wind. When the drow returned—very happy that the doors were open—they refused to let the heroes leave, provoking drawn steel. It might have come to a direct confrontation, but abruptly an awful half-drow, half-demon came through the doors to what appeared to be the Demonweb Pits. It started devouring drow guards and the battle was joined. With her psionic abilities, Ysabelle immediately sent the matron mother to attack the creature, playing the two sides against each other. While Brandis covered the main entrance to the room—a bridge over a pit of acid—the rest of the heroes fought against the draegloth and the drow. The Matron Mother seized Vayne’s mind and sent her to attack Ysabelle, but Vayne fought through it with the power of her maternal feelings for the girl. Meanwhile, the drow warlock appeared and sent his umber hulk after Brandis. The wily monk, however, managed to knock it into the acid, enraging the warlock whose “pet” had just been destroyed. He proceeded to drain the life out of many drow guards as he powered up to fight Brandis. He summoned an infernal hand to hold the monk up in the air, kicking and flailing. Fiona’s powers seemed to have returned, and she spent the time blasting drow and spiders in the temple. The draegloth finally tore the Matron Mother in half, then turned upon the heroes as fresh prey. Tristan struck it with silver fire, and he and Vayne managed to lock the creature in place for a time, the paladin hitting it with his axe and the swordmage deflecting its attacks with her spells. Slowly but surely, as Brandis struggled with the warlock, Vayne and Tristan managed to fight the draegloth back into the portal and close one of the doors. The creature had another trick yet to play, however: it seized both Vayne and Ysabelle with webs, and pulled them into the awful abyssal plane with him. Vayne kept fighting and cried out for Tristan to save Ysabelle and close the doors—on her if needed. Brandis beat the drow warlock and convinced him—on threat of being dropped in the lava—to surrender. The drow, seeing his Matron Mother dead and his other potential allies fled, agreed. He invoked his powers to summon his infernal hand to hold one door shut while Tristan closed the other. Ysabelle teleported to freedom, and Tristan began to shut the door . . . just in time for Vayne to shadow jaunt back into the chamber and use her last breath to invoke a spell to hold the doors shut. The ancient warding magic, rekindled by Vayne’s power, snapped back into being, and the Dark Portal was once again shut. 18. City of Ogremach and Cave 333 Of Tainted Dwarves, the Elder Elemental Eye, and an Insane God Freed At last, the heroes came to the end of the plague cave through a spellplague waterfall, only to find the way forward guarded by a group of mysteriously malformed dwarves. These creatures seemed to have uncut precious stones growing out of their bodies: the older and more seasoned among them having more than others. Brandis and Fiona stole subtly upon the dwarves, keeping out of sight so as not to betray the group’s true power. The dwarves were tight-lipped, particularly as none of the heroes spoke Dwarven. Vayne and J’Div were able to communicate with them in Primordial, and discovered that they were set to guard this place against incursion by the creatures of the plaguecave. The only way to ensure travelers do not carry a disease or incubating creatures was to hold them in quarantine. “If you survive seven days,” they said, “you may pass.” Indeed, they recently detained a group of delvers led by a suspiciously familiar halfling and guided by a “stoneshaper” (sp?) through—they just left not a day ago. Wanting to get after their rivals, who suddenly seemed so close (and yet so far) the heroes attempted to talk their way through and proved unsuccessful. They would have no choice but to wait, stewing in their drive to get after Henri. Apparently, the dwarves were not jesting in their suggestion that the heroes would have to “survive” the quarantine. Shortly after they set camp, the heroes were beset by strange dreams and portents. Tristan began having night visions of being imprisoned in an extradimensional space—a prison of air—from which he could not escape and woke only through falling. Ysabelle’s activities grew even more disturbing: she began tracing a curling symbol in the stone with her bare finger. The heroes recognized this symbol and even the dwarves seemed to know it—or at least a version of it: the Chained God Tharizdun in his aspect as the Elemental Eye. The heroes tried various methods to help her—Tristan with healing, Brandis with meditation, Vayne with swordmagic hypnosis—but nothing seemed to work. Indeed, going into a meditative state seemed to make Ysabelle worse. The heroes tried numerous times to get past the dwarves. First, Vayne, J’Div, and Tristan sparred to distract the dwarves while Brandis and Fiona attempted to sneak past. They made it past the dwarves but to no good end: they succeeded only in killing one of the sentries, purely by accident. His body merged with the stone upon his death. The next day, the heroes begged the dwarves for help with Ysabelle, who was beginning to frighten even them (they had called for reinforcements soon after the heroes arrived). The dwarves’ leader Thrumm (a particularly mottled dwarf that seemed largely crystal) arrived to take Ysabelle into custody. The rest of the party (including Brandis, who had revealed himself, but not Fiona, who hadn’t) insisted on going along, and they were all of them taken as prisoners to a stone-warped outpost called (in the Common tongue) Mine 333. The tiefling followed subtly, always avoiding notice from the dwarf guards. When the group crossed a long bridge over a chasm of lava, she had to pause, uncertain how to get past, and as she hesitated, the bridge collapsed into the lava. Trapped on the other side, Fiona considered how to get across when the skull of Cyric began whispering to her, promising a way . . . The heroes were imprisoned in cells sculpted of living stone—Brandis with J’Div, Vayne with Tristan—while Thrumm took Ysabelle to his main audience chamber. He explained that she was not a prisoner but indeed a chosen emissary of his god, the Elemental Eye. This outpost (translated to the Common tongue as Mine 333) was meant to delve into the earth and discover the last of the three-hundred and thirty-three precious gems required to free his bound deity from its captivity, and Thrumm believed that Ysabelle’s coming presaged the recovery of the gem. Ysabelle sought to persuade Thrumm to release her and her friends if they helped, but the dwarf would have none of it. He demanded that Ysabelle help and said that her traveling companions would be immediately executed. With no obvious choice and desperately overpowered, Ysabelle contacted the dark voice inside her and surrendered her body to the entity inside. All went black for her. Ultimately, Fiona fell prey to the whispers of the skull and opened herself to its dark powers. The winds of Pandemonium swept through the chasm, filling all (except the tiefling) with temporary madness. Even the heroes, on their way to imprisonment, heard this sound, and Brandis and Tristan immediately suspected it was Fiona’s doing. The skull held true to its word, and teleported Fiona across to the opposite ledge. She hurried after the captive heroes, only to find them taken in opposite directions. She followed the main group far enough to see where they were going—to the prison—then stole back to Ysabelle only to see a horrific sight in the audience hall: Ysabelle floating amongst the dwarves, surrounded by an aura of warped and torn flesh that had once been her victims, including Thrumm and several other of the dwarves. Fiona turned to flee, then thought of the skull in her hand. If there was ever an opportunity to rid herself of it, she thought, this was it. She threw the skull at the aura, made to flee then thought better of it again, and watched what transpired. Her eyes widened. The alarm rose and the heroes broke out of their cells. They fought off the guards, including a captain who chose the prudent path and ran, rather than died in combat against them. Fiona arrived to tell them what had transpired—though she didn’t mention having thrown the skull at Ysabelle, or what happened next. Falling to the floor as her power drained away, Ysabelle awoke from her Blood Angel state to find the skull of Cyric absorbing her Far Realm-tainted magic. Purple flame erupted around the skull, forming a new body to go along with the head. She crawled away then fled as Cyric himself appeared—a new avatar loose in the Realms—and began crying out for “Ruha!” and “Gatekeeper!” The heroes regrouped and fled that awful place, as the newly freed Cyric set about destroying everything and everyone in sight. They plunged into Mine 333 and ran blindly, coming ultimately to two potential paths, one of which (a black abyss) was the path Ysabelle felt like following. Perhaps it would lead to the 333rd gem? Even though time was of the essence, Vayne urged them to choose carefully, and she and Tristan flew down the abyss to see if it was safe. They found themselves choking and nearly dying as they descended, so they flew back up and barely made it: that way was blocked by odorless, invisible poison gas. Unable to go that way, they chose the other path. This led at length to a massive pair of stone doors that Ysabelle opened with the gatekeeper staff. They swung just ajar. Before the rest of the party could pull them open all the way, Fiona (who’d been feeling suspicious stares from Brandis and Tristan) teleported through the crack, only to find herself flanked by two massive guardian golems that lurched to life around her. She blasted them with her intense fire magic, only to burn away the golems’ armor and reveal them as magma creatures—immune to her attacks! The heroes made it through the doors and defeated the magma golems in a hard-fought battle. Finally, they stood in the darkness, finally able to catch their breath for the first time in hours. Then treachery befell . . . 17. Walk through the Fire Of Spellplague Fire, a Fallen Goddess’s Cry, and a Devouring Worm Still suffering under the various maladies from the wasps and ropers, hounded by the plaguechanged hordes from behind, they had no choice but to press on through the grueling challenges to come. The tunnel behind the plaguechanged wasp hive led to an unsettling underground forest, into which the heroes delved without hesitation. Pyres of blue flame rose up around them: active pockets of spellplague that burned with energies far darker and more dangerous than fire. Tristan felt his soul drawn to these bonfires, but was able to resist their lure. Just as they though they were safe among the trees, two of the hulking things rose up and attacked, raking at them with gnarled branches like fingers and gaping, fanged maws. The battle was a quick and brutal one, in which Fiona’s fire-based powers were indispensible. The creatures spread their spellplague infection as a mere touch, and the heroes desperately tried to keep from being injured. The wounded Ysabelle at first hid from the creatures, as Vayne in particular directed her to do, but ultimately she could not let her friends suffer on her account. She struck a pivotal blow that dazed one of the creatures long enough to turn the tide. The heroes defeated the plaguechanged treants. After the forest, the heroes found a sure sign that they’d taken the wrong course earlier: a field of blue fire greeted them, a seemingly impermeable barrier. Shielding their eyes from the blaze, they could just make out an opening in the field of flame—suggesting a path through. Unable to turn back, the heroes plunged into the spellplague fire, trusting to their luck and talents to find a path through. As they picked their way through, Tristan felt the silver fire growing within him, drawn to the surrounding spellplague. The power built in him, and he felt a corresponding urge to release it. The power of Mystra’s demise called out to the power of the still living goddess inside him. They had to move faster through the already impossible barrier, and in their haste, they stumbled through tighter and tighter passages between the flames. Finally, the end lay in sight, but Tristan could take the pressure of the magic no more. As the heroes dove for cover, the paladin unleashed his silver fire, which rose from him in a column to tear into the ceiling and turn the stone to butter. Molten globules of stone rained down, but the heroes managed to escape both the flames and the liquid cave-in, diving to safety just as the rock dripped into the flames. They found a bare cavern between an empty chasm and a moving wall, with seemingly no exit. One second viewing, however, they realized the walls were covered in millions of crawling spiders—a living sea of biting, clawing death. These spiders filled the chasm as well. They spotted a tiny opening across the chasm, leading to a deeper chamber, and made for it. Brandis picked up Ysabelle and danced across the spiders, like walking on water. Vayne took J’Div’s hand and shadow jaunted them across. Finally, Tristan spread his wings and flew across with Fiona. Through the passage, they found a larger chamber with shallow depressions filled with hulking spiders. Rather than attack, the creatures held back as though waiting for something the heroes could not see. The ground trembled, and an awful stinger burst forth from the dirt to stab Vayne in the small of her back. A purple worm the size of a building broke through the ground below them and swallowed both J’Div and Vayne whole. Instantly, the spiders charged, and the battle was joined. Tristan, Ysabelle, Brandis, and Fiona held their own against the creatures, but the spiders kept coming. The worm lashed out at them with its envenomed stinger, but they managed to hold the awful beast at bay. Meanwhile, the warlord and the swordmage found themselves in a horrific burning nightmare, locked in battle in separate parts of the worm’s stomach with spiders immune to the creature’s acidic juices. Crushed by the worm’s muscles and harried by the gut spiders, it was all they could do to survive. Ultimately, Brandis dove into the purple’s worm’s gullet to find J’Div, who had just lost consciousness from the acid and spiders. He revived the genasi and teleported back out and cut through the spiders like a whirlwind. Now that J’Div was awake once more, he used his inspiring cries to spur Vayne in the fight. The shadar-kai teleported to his side and destroyed the gut spiders with her swordmagic while the genasi focused on the purple worm. He drew the rosy-bladed sword Vayne had stolen from Sunic, which stole vitality from the creature and kept J’Div alive. Together, they cut their way out of the worm, which Tristan was busy hewing from the outside. The six finally managed to slay the awful creature, and stood reunited—all of them wavering on the edge of collapse. What danger loomed ahead? 16. The Plague Cave Of Horrific Monstrosities, a Duel between Sisters, and Trying to Stay Alive Insectoid creatures twisted by the Spellplague into horrific monsters descended upon the heroes in wave after wave of ravening hunger. They fought two massive creatures that might once have been carrion crawlers, as well as swarms of giant spiders that went down quickly but seemed to number in the hundreds. Brandis, J’Div, and Vayne-the-White took the lead against the creatures, while Ysabelle and Fiona hung back to strike from a distance and Tristan remained behind to defend them. J’Div and Vayne slew one of the creatures almost single-handedly, prompting Vayne to remark that it was “just like old times”—an ironic sentiment, since she and J’Div never had any old times, much as either of them might remember them. The true danger of the assault had not yet emerged yet, however: a swarm of spell-warped grub creatures erupted from the ground beneath Ysabelle’s feet, instantly engulfing her in a storm of psionic and necrotic doom. They drew Tristan closer, and his axe proved useless against the creatures. When he breathed with the power of Mystra’s grace, however, his dragon breath dispersed the creatures, and Brandis and Fiona quickly went to Ysabelle’s aid to destroy the swarm. The damage had been done, however, and rot grubs were burrowing through Ysabelle and Tristan, eating them from the inside out. The heroes, worn thin by the battle, healed Tristan handily enough, but Ysabelle was so far gone they barely managed to stave off her death. They could not quite cure her of the infestation. Vayne the White demonstrated a complete lack of any attachment to the girl, unlike her mold, which seemed to care for Ysabelle almost like a daughter. No monsters came to trouble them, as it seemed the carrion crawlers had carved out this area of the plaguecave for their own. They could rest briefly here, but they had only caught their breath before they saw a shadowy figure following the path they had tread. Tristan pulled out his piece of the Gatekeeper staff and sure enough, the next piece was coming their way. They instantly took up a guard, ready to attack. The creature that appeared was vaguely woman-shaped but indistinct, as though more shadow than flesh—like a wraith. It carried a gleaming sword in one hand and a staff in the other. That hand burned with a deep black fire. It paused when they confronted it, and the heroes risked talking to it. “Vayne?” Brandis asked. The wraith seemed disoriented and confused, but at the sound of their voices, it—she—was able to pull herself together with a concentration of will. The shadows coalesced into the original Vayne, who had left them to spy upon Sunic. She bore in one hand Sunic’s rosy sword and in the other, three pieces of the staff put together. The hand that gripped the staff looked stained by blackness, which they realized was emanating from Sunic’s shadow ring on her finger. Brandis approached, but Vayne cringed back, refusing to give up either the sword or the rod. She was not, she explained, sure that they were who they seemed to be. This could be an illusion, or she could be mad. For a long time, she hadn’t been able to say what was real and what wasn’t. Ultimately, when Brandis put his hand over hers, she released the staff into his grasp and sank against his shoulder for support as though she’d loosed a heavy burden. Satisfied, the group made to welcome Vayne back amongst them. “Oh, horse-shit!” Vayne-the-White exclaimed from the back of the group, seemingly unable to take it anymore. She strode forward and pointed an accusing finger at Vayne-the-Black. “Isn’t it obvious? Sunic sent her. She’s here to betray us!” Vayne-the-White went on to question Vayne-the-Black’s convenient appearance, with everything they wanted . . . but still wearing the ring Sunic bound to her. That she had betrayed the party already, not once, but TWICE, and was just doing it again, and they were falling for it like morons. Her harsh tone did not win her any allies, but neither did it speed Vayne’s welcome back into the group. Brandis and J’Div both stood up for her, while Tristan, Fiona, and Ysabelle remained silent. (NOTE: Correct me on this. I don’t recall Tristan taking a particular side here!) Vayne-the-White asserted that what Vayne-the-Black was doing? This is what SHE would do if she wanted to betray the party. “That bitch,” Vayne the White said, “is going to lead you all to your deaths, and I refuse to take part in it.” At that point, Brandis echoed the unanimous sentiments of the group and said, “Very well. Leave.” Vayne-the-White looked startled for a moment, which turned first into anger, then resolution. “No,” she said. “No, no, no! The stakes are too high—with the sphere, the staff, the sword, the godsdamned skull of Cyric? You’re handing Sunic these talismans on a platter. Too much rests on this for me to walk off and do nothing. So I’ll do this.” She pointed her golden sword at Vayne-the-Black and said: “Challenge.” Silence gripped the clearing a moment, before Vayne-the-Black nodded and said: “Challenge accepted.” The two squared off for a swordmage duel, despite the protests of the assembled heroes—particularly Brandis. But both Vaynes asserted they had to meet the challenge as a matter of honor. By mutual agreement, they enacted a special ritual to prevent the sort of interference they’d come to expect from the group. Sure enough, Fiona immediately set to dispelling the dueling ward: at first, she could make little progress across their combined magic, and the ward caused her pain in reaction to her attempts. The two women circled, unhindered, and placed their respective aegis wards on one another. Fiona finally managed to unravel one of the basic spells that made up the ward, causing both Vaynes intense pain. Vayne-the-Black was already weakened from her ordeal, so she faltered, granting Vayne-the-White the chance to send her staggering away with a fist of force. It was all Vayne-the-Black could do to fend her clone off. During the battle, the various heroes reacted differently. J’Div pulled out the silver sword to try to throw it to Vayne (which one he intended to have it was unclear, as Vayne-the-Black could summon it), while Tristan stopped him from interfering. Ysabelle watched, unsure what to do. Brandis contemplated drawing out the orb of reality and using it to penetrate the dueling circle. As the two shadar-kai fought, like mirror reflections of one another, Vayne-the-White leveled accusation after insult at her original. She said that the heroes expected her to betray them, when one of their number—Fiona—had indeed betrayed them, and yet they trusted her. At length, she said they thought she was some sort of Far Realm creature, when they had one of those—Ysabelle—in their group and it never seemed to cause a problem. J’Div is fine with sleeping with her (something Vayne should know about!), but he doesn’t trust her enough to give her the sword that she remembers fighting and bleeding for. Brandis sees fit to judge her “loose morals,” when he is the one on a vendetta against his former friends—apparently, sleeping with people is bad, but murder is perfectly fine by him. (Notably, she says nothing of Tristan, positive or negative.) Mostly, come to think of it, she thanks Vayne for giving her an excuse to leave this cadre of madmen and bitches—though she will take pleasure in killing her first. With the last of her strength, Fiona finally managed to breach the dueling circle long enough for everyone to interact with the two. Part of her magic conjured a gate into which Vayne-the-White charged, rather than striking Vayne-the-Black with a fatal blow. The gate whisked her some distance away, parting the duelists, but with a glance at her allies, Vayne-the-Black followed through the gate and their dueling circle reappeared around them for the final strikes of their duel. Vayne-the-White knocked Vayne-the-Black’s sword from her hand and stood over her, ready to kill her. She took the opportunity to accuse the original Vayne of being her true originator: that it was her mind, with its doubts and insecurities, that gave birth to her, not Ruthchek—a version of Vayne that wouldn’t have any feeling whatsoever about the shadows before and behind her. And look at the result: a perfect Vayne—Vayne-the-White—who would soon become the only Vayne. Finally, Ysabelle intervened. Perhaps she saw the Vayne who was her friend about to die, or perhaps it was rage at Vayne-the-White—or perhaps it was both. In any case, she opened herself to the mysterious voice inside her mind, harnessing its power to shatter the dueling circle. The shock disrupted Vayne-the-White’s strike, and the blow that would have killed Vayne-the-Black instead bit into her abruptly raised hand. The ravening force ripped through Vayne-the-White, who recoiled with a cry of pain and horror as it shredded her exposed skin. The worst casualty was her face, which Ysabelle practically tore off. “You little bitch!” she cried. “My face! What have you done to my face?” Brandis charged into the breach, having taken the Gatekeeper staff to use as a club. He swung it at the reeling Vayne, who managed to parry. The force of the monk’s strike sent her golden sword ringing from her hand. Before Brandis could strike her again, she plucked up the shadow ring—which she had cut from the original Vayne’s finger—and used it to teleport away, presumably to Sunic’s castle. With Vayne-the-White gone, the heroes took a moment to collect themselves. They’d come out of this with more of the staff (4 pieces instead of 1) and the mysterious red sword Sunic had been carrying. Also, the original Vayne had returned to the group—her first action was to go hug Ysabelle, who was barely able to stand with the rot grub infestation and opening herself to her dark side. Creatures were noticing their presence and beginning to muster, so they pressed on through the plaguecave, seeking an exit. They came to what looked like two ways out: a forest and a huge nest of swarming, spellscarred wasps. They chose the danger they could see rather than the shadowy threat they couldn’t, and attempted to sneak under the nest to the exit tunnel. Unfortunately, one of the rock formations turned out to be a cave roper, horribly transfigured by the spellplague, which attacked mercilessly. Most of the heroes were caught up in battle with the creature, and when Fiona tried to retreat behind cover, a second roper appeared and attacked. The resultant melee drew the attention of the wasps, which increasingly swarmed the combatants. Tristan flew over to rescue Fiona, but was immediately caught up in the roper’s tentacles. J’Div charged over to attack the creature, but it crept up onto a ridge of rock, with the dragon-elf and the tiefling captive. Severely weakened, Ysabelle relied upon Vayne for defense while she sent her psionic energy at the creatures, while Brandis fended off the approaching wasps with graceful strikes and movements. Vayne, showing her stark contrast to her red-haired alter-ego, did not hesitate to leap into danger by drawing Fiona out of the creature’s grasp and putting herself there instead. The tiefling thanks her, surprised at her selflessness—having been more accustomed to Vayne-the-White’s sardonic disregard for her allies. Vayne charged up her sword with flame and struck, teleporting the roper down to the ground where J’Div could charge it. Tristan made his way down, and he and the warlord brought the roper death from two sides. As the wasps kept swarming, the heroes fled through what they hoped was an exit tunnel toward an uncertain fate. 15. Journey into Darkness Of Ancient Mistakes, Imprisoned Gods, and the Underdark After Ellerin lay defeated, he began to reform, and the heroes knew they would have to act quickly. A search of the laboratory revealed little that had survived a great catastrophe, and it appeared their inquiry had reached a dead end. It occurred to Ysabelle, however, to use a spell to witness the last momentous events that had come to pass in that chamber, and immediately, her magic whisked her mind away a hundred years in the past. All the heroes could accompany her into the rift in time, and they watched a terrible sight. Ellerin and a plain-clothed warrior Brandis identified as a monk were setting about to reassemble a broken tablet that contained an epic spell. In casting the spell, however, they were doomed to set off a chain reaction that would leave the laboratory in its current state of disrepair. Immediately, the spell caused chaos in the magic dimension, even if Ellerin and his companion could not feel it. The initial castings took time, however, allowing the heroes to look around. In particular, not interested in seeing the grand display of arrogance that is the ritual spell, J’Div found just the book they were looking for, on Ellerin’s shelf: his journal of magical devices. Vayne saw where he was looking and went to reclaim the book, but they were as ghosts in the magic and could not affect anything in the physical world. A plan occurred to her, and much as the original Vayne would have done, she asked J’Div for the githyanki silver sword, then was surprised when he didn’t immediately give it to her to use. The two shared a tense moment, in which they argued over the true ownership of the blade, and Vayne interpreted J’Div’s hesitation as distrust, driving a wedge between them (just when they had been forging a relationship of their own). Ultimately, there was no time, as the ritual was drawing on quickly, so J’Div gave her the sword, which she used to cut a hole in reality to spare the book the coming cataclysm. Things wouldn’t be the same between them afterward. Sure enough, Ellerin completed the spell, and the casting destroyed him and much of his lab. The heroes felt it even in the time-bridging magic, and it almost slew them in its ferocity. Ellerin’s monk companion dodged the initial deadly blasts, only to be subsumed in the magic. The full purpose of the spell was revealed in the casting: to bring back the mythical Gith, who would need a vessel. The time-scrying ended before the heroes saw the result of the spell, though, whisking them back to the ruined laboratory, this time with the book lying on the floor as though it had been there the whole time. They realized that their eyes gleamed with blue fire that allowed them to see magic—Brandis in particular wondered if they had left something of themselves behind as well. Vayne picked up the book and flipped through it, while the rest of the party watched tensely, giving her a series of untrusting looks. She informed Fiona that she had but to ask for the book, and handed it over to the tiefling when she did. She has a conversation with the party in which she accused them of not trusting her without reason for suspicion—indeed, they have much less reason to trust Fiona the tiefling, who has actively betrayed them on at least one occasion. This predictably did not go well for Vayne, but of all the heroes, Tristan stepped up and asserted that he trusted her and welcomed her as part of the group. Vayne, who had been growing increasingly upset, was struck by this act of kindness, and immediately stopped all her barbs and witticisms against the paladin and has yet to renew them. After Tristan, J’Div expressed his genuine trust of Vayne, but she was either too upset to hear him or didn’t believe him. The blueprints for the Orb of Reality’s containment apparatus were simple, and the heroes rebuilt the thing when they went back to the City of Brass. Their next stop was Faerun, where they returned to Cormyr and enclosed the Orb of Reality in the case where Tristan’s mother had been keeping it safe. Meanwhile, Vayne confronted Brandis about his distrust of her, and inquired whether he disliked her because he genuinely thought she was a Far Realm aberration, or because he had feelings for “the real Vayne.” Because, as she asserted, “I’m not her and never will be.” The monk quickly denied such feelings existed, to which Vayne said she had no doubt at least the original Vayne felt that way, as were circumstances different, surely Vayne-the-White would have such feelings (though Brandis had made where things lay between them very clear). The monk asserted that he hoped when Vayne returned, she would not hold unreciprocated feelings for him, to which Vayne-the-White said “I’m sure that would never happen.” The conversation might have gone on longer, but Fiona returned with the Orb of Reality in tow, Tristan’s mother having refused to safeguard it any longer. The heroes took it with them on their next quest: to find the well of living steel. To this end, they set out in the Chromium and flew to the great rift in the south, where the fortress Observer had once floated. With a bit of luck and the Gatekeeper staff, they found the ruined fortress, where Ysabelle experienced visions and memories suggesting that she was not simply the daughter of Ruha the witch, but IS Ruha in some way. Also, they found a set of symbols similar to those they had discovered in the Shrapnels—one symbol for each of the heroes, encircling a central symbol of Ruha herself—but one was added: a lich’s phylactery, possibly representing Fiona’s involvement. The discussion also led Vayne to the realization that Ysabelle was not the mere girl that she seemed, but mysteriously kept young as though by magic. The rest of the party was unnerved that she did not seem to have previously known this, and wondered about the gaps in her memory. In the fortress, they found a glowing human skull that shed a purple nimbus of magic. The power of the object was immense, and they realized very quickly that it was a lens through which Cyric, god of deception and strife, was watching them. Tristan favored the evil deity with a rude gesture, while Fiona actively put the skull in a burlap sack. Vayne remarked that she was sure a god would have trouble seeing through cloth, but the tiefling ignored her. They left the skull there, wrapped in the sack, and explored the rest of the castle. They determined there might be treasure in the vault, but they couldn’t open it, at least with the resources they had currently. The heroes left Observer and delved into the Underdark of the rift to begin the search for the well of living steel. The heroes had not seen the last of Cyric’s skull, however. The cursed object reappeared in Fiona’s bag, and kept reappearing despite her attempts to remove it. Worse, it promised great power if only someone would wield it to cast magic. Brandis was extremely upset by this development and went so far as to suggest that Fiona leave the group. Fiona and Tristan argued as to which of them had drawn the deity’s foul attention. J’Div stood up for Fiona’s value to the group, and did not doubt her when Brandis asked if she should continue with the party. The others watched the arguments from afar, Vayne in particular with great interest. Ultimately, the group remained together, certain they could do nothing about the skull immediately. The trek through the Underdark was no less frustrating. With no map or guide, they spent days wandering through the tunnels until finally they came upon two mad-looking svirfneblin (deep gnomes) who warned them against progressing farther. An active pocket of spellplague dominated the next cavern, they said, which they were actually there to study. The lifecycle of the creatures there was so fast they were witnessing evolution day-by-day. Also, the gnomes confessed several of their fellows had been killed during the study, and they made a habit of eating spellscarred meat. The heroes might have turned back at that point, but the gnomes also said that a group had come through recently—perhaps a week ago—led by a prodigiously fat halfling that matched the description of Henri, Brandis’s old friend and the heroes’ current employer. It was revealed that Henri carried a compass similar to the ones the heroes carried, pointing them toward the Well of Living Steel. Ultimately, Fiona confessed that she was the source of Henri’s compass. More discussion abounded, and while Brandis and Fiona were distracted with the gnomes, Vayne sneaked away with J’Div for a liaison of their own. This, she demonstrated, was necessary to keep the perpetually lustful Vayne 2.0 from jumping one of the gnomes. And as upset as Vayne was at J’Div at the time, he was still a far better choice than either of those unsettling creatures. The others came to find them, but Vayne had already gone by the time they found J’Div back in the tunnel, looking quite satisfied. The decision was made to venture through the spellplague pocket despite the dangers. The heroes simply didn’t have the time, if Henri and his party had already come this far. They delved into the bizarre subterranean forest and managed to get only part of the way through before the native wildlife caught their scent and rushed to the attack. 14. Red-Haired Stranger Of Friends New and Old, a Wrathful Elf, and a New Quest After Vayne left the party to keep tabs directly on Sunic, the other Worldwalkers compared notes as to what to do. After discussion, it was decided they would continue along their current path and look for an opportunity to lure Sunic into a trap. J’Div stepped in to act as the party’s ostensible leader, though decisions are still made with heavy input from each member of the group. The group collected several magic rituals, such as magic circle (to keep out fey and/or shadow creatures) as well as planar sending, to communicate with their plant inside Sunic’s castle. They made inquiries as to where to get to Ellerin’s laboratory in the Elemental Chaos, as well as tracking down Henri, one of Brandis’s old associates. Meanwhile, Sunic returned from surveillance, extremely frustrated by the party’s attempts to provoke him into an attack. He confided in Vayne, who reassured him. She made a show of discovering that he had switched pieces of the rod and hence could no longer track Tristan’s piece (which she had known all along)—in the process, she touched Sunic’s piece of the rod and determined the next piece lay in the Abyss. She proposed an alternative plan: that they two go and find the rest of the rod on their own. Finally, she convinced him to promise her that if and when he went after the heroes, that he would take her along—of the two of them, she was more deserving of vengeance after what they had done to her. The next day, Ysabelle dispatched a sending to Vayne, asking her how she meant to join back up with them, and she replied with the assertion that she would not be coming back and was instead staying with Sunic in order to distract him and cover their own efforts. Vayne promptly revealed this contact (though not the content) in order to win Sunic’s trust; she convinced him that they were hoping to turn her against Sunic, but that Vayne had chosen his side, rather than theirs. Sunic, infuriated, insisted they go attack the heroes on the instant, but she convinced him to wait—that perhaps she could work out a way to get back in their good graces and work against them for Sunic’s benefit. Later that day, the heroes went to the Nook, a tavern in Sigil where Henri was supposed to frequent. Brandis’ goal was to get Henri to tell him where he might find the Dragon Tear sword, as well as the next member of the old gang. While they were searching for Henri at the tavern, a woman who looked much like Vayne (albeit dressed in white, with red hair and different tattoos, and wielding a gold greatsword) walked through the door. With an odd mixture of sweet talk and intimidation, this Vayne attempted to get information regarding a “creepy little girl” who had tampered with her memory. Her arrival and inquisition smoked out Henri, who was quickly confronted by Brandis. Despite Fiona’s attempts to diffuse the tension (as well as Vayne’s intercession with the mercykillers), the interview did not go well, and Brandis and J’Div ended up kicked out of Henri’s tavern (as he had Mercykiller thugs and the patrons of that place owed him their loyalty). Vayne ended up talking with Ysabelle, and confiding in her that her life seemed broken and she didn’t even know why. Ysabelle drank and started to hallucinate, which unnerved Vayne, who teleported them both out of the bar. Fiona slipped Henri a note before leaving—they would meet up again later. Out in the street, the red-haired Vayne confronted the rest of the party, demanding they either fix her mind, or fight her. She vowed to wound as many of them as badly as she could before she killed them. Exposing frayed nerves, she collapsed in tears when Brandis called her a soulless automaton. The rest of the party conferred, and Ysabelle issued the command words that awoke Vayne to her former memories. This made an obvious improvement, making her more like her old self, but she still seemed a little off: she evinced none of the extreme protectiveness the old Vayne had for Ysabelle, nor did she demonstrate any capacity for leadership. She gladly let Brandis (whom she assumed was the leader) take charge, until he said that J’Div was really the leader. Vayne also seemed to find the rest of the heroes extremely attractive—in particular J’Div, Tristan, and Fiona—prompting some discomfiture on the part of her companions. Back at their home base, the heroes reworked their plan in light of the new addition to the group. Brandis and Tristan discussed their next move, Ysabelle practiced her rituals, while Vayne and J’Div sparred. The bare-hand combat turned tense (involving a kiss between the two), though J’Div ultimately refused Vayne’s obvious advances and the shadar-kai left to bathe herself in the wake of the fight (J’Div turned down the implied invitation as well). On her way back, she encountered Fiona giving a pair of dimensional shackles to Tristan, which prompted Vayne to joke: “Sorry for interrupting—I’ll just be on my way.” The party decided to continue the quest for the Orb of Reality’s case, which would lead them into the Elemental Chaos. They made camp inside their warding circle in the dojo, which was drawn around Vayne (as a shadow creature she couldn’t enter or leave it once the circle was drawn). Vayne spent some time in conversation with Fiona, who loudly voiced her disapproval of the former’s “whoring.” Vayne pointed out that it was nothing of the sort if both parties had feelings for the other, and that Fiona should really lighten up a little. At the same time, Vayne expressed an interest in learning more about her “tighter morality,” and the two managed to get on watch together. Fiona took the opportunity to leave the protective circle and abscond to parts unknown, and instead of alert the rest of the party, Vayne took the opportunity to awaken J’Div and seduce him more brazenly. This time, she was successful. The rest of the party woke up and asked Vayne about Fiona: the swordmage said, truthfully, that Fiona was very stealthy and she couldn’t say exactly where she had gone. Brandis accused her of distracting herself by having sex with J’Div (which they all heard), but Vayne just shrugged it off and J’Div didn’t seem put out either. Vayne stated, very clearly, that she couldn’t have stopped Fiona if she’d wanted to, as she couldn’t cross the protective circle. Brandis was very upset about the situation, though he didn’t make it clear if he was angrier at Vayne or Fiona. The tiefling returned, saying she had made a deal with Henri for the location of Evelene (another of Brandis’s former partners), provided they do him a favor: involving the theft of a diamond in her possession. Though displeased by the arrangement, Brandis accepted the task, as no other option seemed to present itself. Sunic returned to do surveillance on the camp. He left the rod in his castle in the Shadowfell (so the heroes couldn’t track him) but took along Vayne, who insisted he could hide her inside his shadow cloak (and she would make it worth his while). They arrived outside the warding circle, and Vayne made some noises to cover tipping off Ysabelle telepathically. This was the first time Sunic had seen the duplicate Vayne, and he was rather unnerved by it—the original Vayne said it was the product of some magic she didn’t fully understand, and she blamed Ruthchek, which Sunic seemed to accept. The heroes confronted Sunic, who revealed himself as well as the original Vayne. Sunic called Tristan a coward for not attacking him, and heavily implied that he held the soul of Linn (Tristan’s father) prisoner. The pissing contest did not blow Vayne’s cover, and she acted in all particulars as though she were on Sunic’s side, all the while telling Ysabelle telepathically that this situation did not favor them and they should not attack. Finally, too upset by Tristan to think clearly, Sunic left the dojo with Vayne in tow—she tried to reassure him, using the opportunity to convince him of the need to attack them all at once. She couldn’t get much accomplished, however, before the party emerged from the dojo, as well as Matsumura. The duplicate Vayne did not come along, as she was trapped inside the bounds of the protective circle. Feeling overwhelmed, Sunic said that he would attend Tristan again soon—after Matsumura was dead. He and Vayne teleported away. Unnerved, the party left Sigil the next day for the Elemental Chaos. They bought an elemental glider and followed the compass to Ellerin’s laboratory, which seemed to have been much damaged by the ambient chaos. Much of the lab’s contents had been destroyed over however long it had gone without proper wardings. They found their way inside, only to encounter the former wizard turned into a blob of elemental energy. Tristan pleaded with Ellerin to stand down, but the creature must have been driven totally mad by the magic that warped him, and he attacked the party with silver fire. The battle was harrowing and quick, but they ultimately defeated Ellerin.	https://gatekeeper.obsidianportal.com/posts	<urn:uuid:8c992f3a-019f-4d9a-9cf7-7d99a699d6ef>	en	0.981471	0.083569
Recent site activity Home‎ > ‎ Charles K. Marshall 2, researched by Hale Death, Beginnings, and Travels of Charles K. Marshall Death, Beginnings, and Travels of Charles K. Marshall A paper written by Robert E. Hale "I’m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let’s start with typewriters." (1) I began on the tenth, and final floor of Emory University’s Woodruff Library. The sun was casting my long shadow behind my red, hooded, sweatshirt, as I slowly shuffled through the material before me. Utterly uninterested, my thoughts strayed elsewhere. After some time, I placed the aged papers down on the wooden table and began to tune into our speaker. At this moment, I heard Naomi, who is head librarian at Emory’s MARBL special collections, say a sentence that was to become the beginning of my long journey. "And this Chinese man we believe fought for the Confederacy in our Civil War." The sentence was simple yes, but a profound in its possibilities. In the following pages, I have put together a compilation of material I have found on this mystery man. The information came to me in the least likely of places, and was difficult to locate. My search for information took me across all of the Southeastern United States. I struggled to pull all the bits and pieces of information together, finding hints of his presence through an array of different sources. It was as if my character was a faint a blip on the radar of history. It is my hope that what follows will strengthen this man’s presence in history. I will do this by making presumptions about the character that can only make sense, given the time period, and the scenarios that he confronted. The locations of my character are factual; however, the feelings, thoughts, and desires have been deduced. Standing over the bed, the ten year old would have looked down on his father’s pale face. His father must have been sick for some time, yet the two of them were still alone in the room as his three brothers and one other sister had not yet arrived, and, his mother had died when he was three.(2) One can imagine Dzau Tsz-zeh, with his small hands, holding tightly to his father’s cold index finger. His father, his mother, his schoolings were all slipping away from him. As Tsz-zeh looked into his fathers dark eyes they became motionless. Not even being a teenager, his feelings of despair after experiencing such loss cannot be fathomed. Still alone, as none of his siblings had arrived to their hometown of Kashing, China, Mr. Dzau had succumbed to death.(3) Since Mr. Dzau was not a highly notable figure, no one would have been present. No nurse or doctor would come rushing in at this moment. It can be Chinese custom to mourn for years, as feelings of family are usually strong within Chinese tradition. Therefore, one could imagine Tse-zeh falling back into a near by seat, staying motionless for some time, until a doctor came in to tell him what he already knew. It was not until the rest of his family congregated that the funeral was set and their father was laid to rest.(4) The rest of the family, having matters to attend to back at their respective homes, hurriedly divided up the family’s assets and went back to their daily lives.(5) After the mother had died, the family had dispersed, and now none of Tse-zeh’s brothers or sisters would take him in. "Why won’t my blood relatives take him into their homes?" Tse-zeh must have asked himself. While pondering this question, Tse-zeh’s thoughts may have roamed to his father’s determination over the past years. Precious little time could be spared in Tse-zeh’s youth for anything other than work. Mr. Dzau had even sold Tse-zeh’s fourth older brother at the age four to keep his family together. The family, of now seven, was constantly working to get by.(6) Indeed, with nowhere to turn, a family friend took Tse-zeh in after his father’s death. However, the family was not his. After less than a year Tse-zeh decided to leave Kashing to begin his search for a new life.(7) After a short period of time, where Tse-zeh roamed the nearby countryside looking for work, he came in contact with his second older brother. His brother said that their fourth older brother (who had, unbeknownst to Tse-zeh been sold by his father) named Joseph was reportedly living in Shanghai, only 60 miles away.(8) Asking if Tse-zeh wanted to search for Joseph, he eagerly nodded his head in approval. Their shadows raced to keep up with them as they headed towards Shanghai. As a loving brother, Tse-zeh’s must have searched hard for the first sight of his brother Joseph. Finally reaching Shanghai, they roamed her dirty streets in his search. Tse-zeh must have darted from sight to sight in the commotion of the city searching for his brother and absorbing this different world. After weeks of fruitless searching, one must assume Tse-zeh sensed his brother’s impatience growing, as one morning Tse-zeh awoke, stretching his arms wide from his awkward sleep, to find himself alone.(9) His brother had left him. Finding infrequent work, Tse-zeh would have eaten when he could, and slept where he felt at the most at ease. As Tse-zeh became tired, one day he found himself entering a temple on the edge of town. Upon sitting down on the smooth wood benches, dust pillowed upward, and this scenario would have unfolded as he surveyed his surroundings. A kind faced man would have looked back at the young boy and asked him if he could sit down next to him. Tse-zeh would shrug; the man taking this as a yes, then would have swept his left arm under his robe as to not wrinkle his clothing on the wooden seat. After a moment of silence, the man, as to not be too impolite, would have cast his eyes towards this stranger. This elders name was Li, and as the two began talking they found out that Li had known Tse-zeh’s father some time ago.(10) After hearing of Tse-zeh’s situation, Li insisted Tse-zeh’s stay in the temple for the night. Tse-zeh acquiesced.(11) The next morning, Tse-zeh awoke and in all likelihood ate with Li, grabbing at the food impolitely. Li told Tse-zeh of an American Methodist missionary named Rev. Lambuth who was looking for Chinese boys who would like to be educated in Western ways. "Methodism" he would probably have said "can be a most powerful teacher and a place of refuge for the mind." Asking Tse-zeh if he might be interested, Tze-zeh agreed to at least meet the Reverend.(12) Li scheduled an appointment with Rev. Lambuth and they met a few days later. It was then that Rev. Lambuth took an interest in Tse-zeh. Like any preacher, he wanted the young boy to feel the way he felt about his teachings. One of Rev. Lambuth colleagues would later say of Rev. Lambuth that "like our Saviour [he] strove by every means ‘to seek and to save that which was lost.’"(13) Indeed, Rev. Lambuth’s must have been only too happy to take Tse-zeh in and give him the formal education he lacked. Rev. Lambuth asked Tse-zeh if he would stay with him in his Chapel and learn under his guidance, English, as well as advancing his learning of the Chinese language.(14) Tse-zeh obliged. Over the next year and a half, Tse-zeh’s eyes flipped from page to page of each book put in front of him.(15) After about a year, Rev. Lambuth began asking friends down at the docks if there was a safe vessel coming to Shanghai. Not much time passed before he was able to secure a passage for the young lad as well as another one of his pupils. Their departure was set for America in early 1859.(16) As his last days in Shanghai came to a close, Tse-zeh must have felt the awkward wrenching of his heart as he was leaving his homeland to go to a strange place halfway around the world. In all probability, Rev. Lambuth stood at the shore and watched as the ship left the horizon. At the age of thirteen, Tse-zeh left Rev. Lambuth with another Chinese boy who had also been under guidance. The two boys were also were accompanied by his wife Mary Lambuth; now Rev. Lambuth was letting go of more than two pupils.(17) The fact that Mary Lambuth accompanied Tse-zeh must have meant that he and Rev. Lambuth had grown rather close. Even still, one could presume Tse-zeh did not look back as the wind carried him towards the horizon; he only stared into the point where the blue sky and water melted together off in the distance pondering his destination. We do not know the exact route the three unlikely travelers made; however, they must have been an odd trio. The styles of the time would have presented one with a picture like this: a prestigious women bonnet and all, without her husband on the high seas. Then below the pink patterns which outlined her soft shoulders there would be two Chinese boys dressed in grey robes that were fraying at their feet. In all this must have caused suspicion aboard this ship, as the stereotype of women aboard vessels was still seen by some as a sign of danger, especially if she was alone. However, as Rev. Lambuth was one of the head Missionaries for the China Mission, along with Young John Allen, he should have been able to afford to pay the passage for adequate accommodations on the ship. Their journey would have had many of the pleasantries that anyone of notable background in the 19th century would be accustomed to in making the passage around the Horn. What would have first caught Tse-zeh’s eyes would have been the white caps of the water sweeping past the side of the hull. The Mississippi was much more torrential than the quiet rivers he had seen in Shanghai. It was cold when the three of them arrived and indeed the frost must have lain shimmering on top of the grass in the distance. As they crept closer to the shoreline of Mary Lambuths’ the native state in late 1859 to early 1860, their ship would have tacked back and forth between the other boats and shoals surrounding the harbor.(18) Then, as the voices of the coastwise grew louder Tse-zeh would have felt the vessel come to a stop with a soft thud against the dock. Once down the gangplank, people would have stared as Tse-zeh’s made his way down the creaking dock, his clothes were so different as well as the squint of his eyes, and the smooth pressed shape of his dark hair. It is likely that Mary Lambuth would be one of the only people Tse-zeh would converse with, as his English was not perfect, and since people saw him as different; he wouldn’t have been invited to play with other boys. He had come to America to become civilized and learn. Gathering their belongings, the three of them made way for Vicksburg, Mississippi.(19) After coming to the Lambuth family house, Tse-zeh soon took the next step in his Methodist teachings. Tse-zeh was finally baptized by a Bishop O.F. Andrew and, from then on, his schooling was centered on the Church’s teachings.(20) It was then that the Bishop bestowed Tse-zeh with his new Methodist name. "C.K. Marshall." The Bishop would have said, "go and do well with the teachings you have, and will learn in your life. Uphold the name of Methodism wherever you go." Tse-zeh’s’ new name held significant meaning as he was named after the well known, and very prominent, Rev. Charles K. Marshall of Vicksburg Mississippi.(21) After settling into his new home, C.K. soon found employment. Independent by nature C.K. began working for both a local candy and tea store.(22) Still only thirteen the sweets of the candy store must have been a great delight, he was not accustomed to these luxuries. One can imagine how his hand shook with excitement as he bought a few pieces of peach flavored taffy with his extra money. It was in Vicksburg that C.K. would have enjoyed his first few months in America. As the muddy paths of spring turned into the dusty roads of the summer, C.K. would learn not only about Methodism, but also about how to conduct himself in an American city. As the summer progressed C.K. had one obligation to Rev. Lambuth which was to attend the local Methodist Conference. Sometime in the summer of 1860, the two Chinese boys were brought to the 1860 Methodist Episcopal Church Mississippi Conference.(23) They were living testaments to Rev. Lambuth’s hard work and dedication during his years in China. Their excitement and determination must have resonated throughout the chamber as they glanced around. C.K. must have been amazed by the size of the culture that he had just entered. Methodism was not a small group of men working together in a Chapel in Shanghai, as he had observed with Rev. Lambuth, but it was a vast culture that existed throughout America. As the summer rolled on fireworks would have crashed over their roof on the Fourth of July, and the fairs in August must have left C.K. watching with wide eyes. This place was so new, so different, with the women strolling down the streets, and the stagecoaches rambling down the cobblestone roads. Yet, when the summer came to a close, for whatever reason, Mary Lambuth thought C.K. needed a new home to continue his teachings. It would be tricky to find C.K. a teacher who could relate to his Chinese culture. However, she sent a letter to a friend who lived in Lebanon, Tennessee.(24) This friends name was David Campbell Kelley who agreed to take C.K. under his wing. C.K. arrived on his doorstep in October. Traveling towards the Appalachia Mountains by stagecoach, C.K. would have seen the land rise in front of him, and the trees, the endless trees roll past. The trip would most likely have only taken a few days (the distance between the two cities is approximately 500 miles. Estimating a speed of 15 miles per hour, and the average traveling time being 8 to 10 hours a day this would take 3.7 days), but the trip gave C.K. an idea of the expanse of this young country. The trio arrived there by mid-October. The people of Lebanon, witnessing the arrival of this group, must have whispered to each other, "What are the Chinese really like?" Some had heard remarks of the Chinese as being a "pagan and otherwise incongruous race," while other newspapers were publishing a range of editorial comments such as "can you imagine anything good coming from such a place," to "‘the Chinese may be welcomed as assistants in colonization; they need not be feared as the dominant race of the future.’"(27) It is obvious that people had not yet made up their mind on exactly what to think of these foreigners; especially since most of the Chinese population resided in the west. Indeed the Immigration Commission, issued in 1911, stated that a mere 42 Chinese came to America in 1853 most of which were going to the west coast.(28) The arrival of C.K. and his Chinese counterpart would create much interest and the two young boys would feel it as their stagecoach bounced along the streets of Lebanon. A few days later on Oct. 18th, 1860 in a letter to her daughter, Kathryn Campbell to her daughter Kathryn mentions the welcoming of these new visitors: Tell your David that I am truly glad to hear from him, he has taken the yoke up in this youth. To be firm and fear no danger. They have had a received at your Uncle Kelley’s the two China boys and Mary [Lambuth] no illes have professed religion, it appears like the young are prepping in more rapid than the old. While their hearts are tender their impression is easier made, may God pressure them and keep them from all temptation is my earnest prayer.(29) This officially signifies the arrival of C.K. into the home of D.C. Kelley. But why did Mary bring these two Chinese boys to D.C. Kelley? David Campbell Kelley’s background answers most of this question. D.C., as he was called, was born in Tennessee on Christmas day in 1833. As if his date of birth was to foreshadow his future, D.C. Kelley was to have an intensely religious life. In 1839, at the age of six, he joined the Methodist Church. After working hard for them for thirteen years, he was admitted to the Tennessee Conference in 1852 and was promptly sent to China as a missionary.(30) Once there, he immersed himself in Chinese life. In a letter written by D.C. while in he was in China to a Dr. McFerrin in 1854 states, "we are now on the field, and at the only work of which we are capable – the study of language."(31) He obviously had a strong passion the Chinese culture. Adding to this D.C. Kelley "did not wet a finger and hold it up to see how the wind was blowing before he spoke. His rugged, independent, fearless nature made him both lasting friends and enemies."(32) One of the most surprising examples of the truth of this quote this can be seen in his stance on the issue of slavery. Going completely against the ideals of his fellow southern compatriots, D.C. was an Abolitionist and a Unionist.(33) With this background, he was the perfect Southerner to teach C.K. of the more tolerant ways of Methodism. Versed in Chinese, and of intellectually independent mind, D.C. Kelley was the kind of man the Rev. Lambuth could trust to help mold this young man into a model Methodist Episcopalian. Although D.C. Kelley was a Unionist of mind, he was still a Southerner in body. Many sources have reported C.K. as a Confederate Civil War veteran and since he was living with D.C. at this time it makes sense that C.K. joined the Confederate Army with D.C. (For more confirmation please see my previous paper on topic).(34) By July of 1861, D.C. Kelley and C.K. found themselves on-top of horses, riding the plains and mountains of the frontier of the Civil War; they were now in the Tennessee Cavalry.(35) It would be likely that C.K. knew little of the true ambitions of many Confederates, as most of his only meaningful encounters with Southerners would in all probability have only been through two very open minded people, Mary Lambuth and D.C. Kelley It was through D.C. Kelley that C.K. would soon witness, and most likely on some level participate in, a remarkable time in American history. To illustrate this, we will follow their travels and encounters of D.C. Kelley. While in the Tennessee Calvary, D.C. Kelley met and worked closely with one of the most notable Southern figures, both in and out of the Civil War, Nathan Bedford Forrest.(36) Nathan Bedford Forrest was one of the greatest military strategists of the Civil War, only losing one battle, which was one of the last before the Confederacy surrendered in the spring of 1865.(37) In addition to his military record, Nathan Bedford Forrest was in later years a founder of the KKK, as well as an advocate for the use of Chinese sharecroppers.(38) It must have been uncomfortable for C.K. to travel across a foreign country on horseback, learning about Methodism, and in close quarters with one of the most famous white supremacists. Indeed, this scenario would have taken place from 1861 until July of the following year when the three went their separate ways.(39) It is obvious that D.C. Kelley did not always agree with the Confederacy, yet for some time he stayed with his feet strapped into his stirrups and his back arched looking over his men that dotted the patterned fields and forests that were before him. Up and down, a thud and then a moment of silence, his soul was torn and eventually felt the need to leave this war, but despite his feelings his horse took him onward. As the war progressed, C.K.’s understanding of freedom and the issues that Americans faced would have become clearer. He would have heard repeatedly the words, freedom, country and home. Each time said with quickened whispers; as if the wind could blow away their very being if spoken too loudly. Despite their ideological differences, D.C. Kelley and Forrest had many encounters with each other. In addition both being high ranking officers, strong willed, and vigilant it would not be a stretch of the imagination to say they were friends. Their military minds would be put to test as C.K. and D.C. Kelley found themselves in their first real battle. On the morning of 11th of November 1861 as the sky began to brighten, C.K’s breathe would have gone into the air with short and heavy motions. It did not take long for the fighting to ensue. The Tennessee Cavalry unit encountered Union forces by the shores of the Cumberland River. D.C. Kelley, with his commanding voice, urged his men to stay fast as many were weary of their first military encounter. Firing on the Union gunboat Conestoga they drove the Union forces backwards.(40) To be sure, C.K. Marshall must have been scared and amazed by this battle; watching men riding on horseback and firing at a ship with guns, all must have seemed rather foreign to him. No sooner were the Union forces pushed back than D.C. Kelley was informed that he would have to press forward. More Union forces were spotted in nearby Sacramento, Kentucky.(41) He pressed onward and after a brilliant and dashing affair, they were able to force the Union into retreat.(42) During the fighting, D.C. Kelley and Forrest acted with authority and strength that must have been an incredible to witness. In the vigilant and wary advance, the skillful disposition of the slender forces to the best advantage, the timing of simulated retreat in the front and surprise attack upon the flanks, and at the last, the thunderbolt charge with everything hurled into a never-let-up, never-slow-down, driving fight, Forrest’s men saw him demonstrate and instinctive mastery of military principles.(43) As the long day in Sacramento ended, C.K., like many soldiers feel after reflecting on their first real military encounter, must have felt that he changed. He had not only encountered his first, but his second battle in rapid succession. Nothing he could have learned would have prepared him for this. As 1862 progressed, D.C. Kelley and C.K. fought alongside each other in many battles.(44) However, in February they encountered something unlike their previous battles. It was then that they reached wooden walls of Fort Henry. In this battle, D.C. Kelley’s men were told to support Forrest’s Cavalry unit by scouting the fort ahead. The fort had recently been captured by the soon to be Unionist hero, and man who would later become President of the United States, Ulysses S. Grant.(45) In D.C. Kelley’s scouting of the roads leading from Fort Henry to Fort Donelson, a bitter fight ensued; Forrest shouted excitedly to D.C. Kelley "Parson! For God’s sake, pray; nothing but God Almighty can save that fort!"(46) Time and time again D.C. Kelley preformed brilliantly and returned to C.K. to tell him about his experiences. After this engagement, D.C. Kelley rode back to camp and he and Forrest met with some of the other commanders of the area. It was in this exchange that Forrest was informed that some of his superiors were considering surrendering this area. Their superior officers did not believe they had enough of an upper hand to win this battle, seeing that there were more battles to be fought elsewhere. Enraged, Forrests’ voice must have boomed through the camp. This was a different, more frightening sound than the guns that C.K. had been hearing for almost a year. Forrest took action. Taking whoever would go with him to fight he left for Fort Donelson. D.C. Kelley and C.K. did not accompany Forrest, as Forrest had put D.C. Kelley in charge of the retreat of the rest of the men.(47) Forrest and D.C. Kelley were to reunite later that year and continue to fight alongside each other in many bloody battles, both with new promotions on their chest; however, C.K. would not be present.(48) By mid 1862, D.C. Kelley could no longer focus on his men. He must have felt a tug away from the war, a constant nag that his horse had lead him astray. Most likely his opinions of Southern attitudes, as he was an Abolitionist and Unionist at heart, had overcome his loyalty to the South. Sometime on August 18th, 1862 D.C. began to scrawl on a piece of paper laid out before him. It was on this day that he sent in his resignation from the Confederate Army.(49) Most likely, D.C. Kelley would have confided in C.K. some of his rational for this choice, and tried to teach C.K. a lesson of when it is acceptable to give up on a cause.(50) While there is no record that his resignation was accepted, he must have been granted a leave of absence, as there is no reference to him for many months in any military records.(51) D.C. Kelley and C.K. Marshall must have made their way through the dandelion filled fields to Lebanon, where they could evade the horrors of war. Here C.K. would be able to focus more on his Methodist teaching. As they made their way home with their guns dragging behind they would have made soft impressions in the grass behind them. On September 25th, 1862, D.C. Kelley’s mother noted in her diary "with gratitude we record the coming of our own loved David this afternoon. God has brought him back in safety."(52) However, even here C.K. could not escape from the war torn country. On November 5th, Mrs. Kelley wrote in her diary "the roar of cannon from the direction of Nashville is heard – how dreadful is the sound that is for the destruction of the lives of our countrymen."(53) D.C. Kelley knew he would be returning to war soon, and did not wish to put C.K. back into a battle in which he no longer believed. Therefore, later that year, when D.C. Kelley was called back to join the Confederate army, he made arrangements with Mary Lambuth to take C.K. with her when she traveled to New York City to visit her family.(54) New York City had a vibrant Chinese culture at this time, and C.K. soon found work in hotels and tea shops to earn his living.(55) C.K. spent approximately six years in New York City, where he presumably spent time getting a higher education and learning more about Methodism. After ten years, of his twenty-two years on this earth, C.K. realized he wanted to head home. In the warming months of May, 1869, C.K. began search for a ship that would set sail for Shanghai. Finally, he walked up the gangplank and left America on June 19th, 1869.(56) After his long voyage, C.K. would most likely have found himself alone again in Shanghai, having left no friends behind, and having lost ties with his family since they had left him after his father’s death. However, C.K. would begin preaching and working for the Methodist Mission in China. The Methodist ministers of the area were so impressed by C.K.’s work that he was ordained on December 22nd, 1876, becoming the first native Chinese born minister of the Methodist Episcopal Church.(57) After this, C.K. began to specialize in Medicine and eventually became the superintendent of the Soochow Hospital at the Methodist Episcopal Mission, in Soochow, China.(58) Surely D.C. Kelley, once hearing all of this news, must have been as proud as any father. When C.K. worked on his patients, in an oddly unfamiliar China, they would most likely only be able stare into his pitch black eyes and wonder what they had seen, the stories of a foreign land, and the courage it took to grow up in such a different place. After all his hard work C.K. became known as the "Educator, Doctor, and Preacher;"(59) he is the much-loved Dzau Tse-zeh, the man of my imagination. It was on a cold Massachusetts night in March that I bounded into the house of a great friend and advisor in my life, Mr. Matthew Stackpole. He is the current head of the Martha’s Vineyard Historical Society, and a man rich in character. I sat down in one of the reading chairs next to Matthew and I eagerly began to tell him about C.K.’s courage. We laughed about the trouble this paper was giving me and how I could approach the life of C.K. Marshall. It was in this long conversation, which ranged from talk of the battle of Trafalgar to University of Connecticut basketball, one of his most beloved intrigues, that he said something that struck me and made me understand the life of C.K. I realized how C.K. had not been afforded the time to grow up. He was thrust into a turbulent world, time and time again. He was not granted a childhood, at every turn he would associate with his elders, living through them, and with them. How different his childhood was from mine. Yet, C.K. never gave up on himself, he found a religion that gave him purpose and he thrived in the world in which he was given. C.K. Marshall embodies what we have to learn from history. He is a gives us a bold figure that aspires to continue and press on. As I sat in this felt embroidered chair and reflected on my conversation with Matthew, I realized what must have occurred in 1902. Here, C.K.’s eldest son must have stood by with the rest of his family watching as even more family and friends waited outside.(60) This man of greatness was nearing his end. C.K.’s son must have held his father’s cold index finger and he too now watched his father’s eyes become motionless. Yet here, back in China, where in his youth he had felt the loneliest he had ever felt in his life, he finally found a purpose, and passion. He had found the family which had evaded him in his childhood.(61) I would like to make a final note and acknowledge the support and help of two historians who I came in contact with throughout my research, Mr. Oey and Mr. Gordon Kwok. Both of these men gave me information that is used throughout this paper, most importantly of D.C. Kelley’s war year experiences. Without their aid and support I would not have been able to finish my paper, or come to the conclusions I have presented in the previous pages. My heartfelt gratitude goes out to them both for all the research and help they gave me. (1) Solomon Short, quoteland (2) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (3) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (4) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (5) Golden Jubilee, pg69 (6) Golden Jubilee, pg69 (7) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (8) Golden Jubilee, pg69 (9) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (10) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (11) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (12) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (13) In Memoriam, pg45 (14) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (15) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (16) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (17) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (18) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (19) Cohen, pg64 (20) Golden Jubilee, pg77 (21) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (22) Golden Jubilee, pg69 (23) Cohen, pg64 (24) Duke University Special Collections, Campbell family collection (25) Duke University Special Collections, Campbell family collection (26) Cohen, pg63 (27) Miller, pg172 (28) Kung, pg65 (29) Duke University Special Collections, Campbell family collection (30) Journal of the Tennessee Conference, pg55 (31) Old Jerusalem Conference, pg125 (32) Old Jerusalem Conference, pg125 (33) Old Jerusalem Conference, pg125 (34) Chicago Tribune (35) Dr. Oey, Gordon Kwok (36) Henry, pg39 (37) Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies, Government Printing Office (38) Naomi Nelson, MARBI (39) Dr. Oey, Gordon Kwok (40) Dr. Oey, Gordon Kwok (41) Jordon and Pryor, pg53 (42) Jordon and Pryor, pg53 (43) Henry, pg46 (44) Jordon and Pryor, pg53 (45) Wills, pg57 (46) Wills, pg60 (47) Henry, pg60 (48) Tennesseans in the Civil War (49) Tennesseans in the Civil War (50) Tennesseans in the Civil War (51) Tennesseans in the Civil War (52) UGA Manuscripts, Kelley family manuscripts, Lavina Kelley (53) UGA Manuscripts, Kelley family manuscripts, Lavina Kelley (54) Naomi Nelson, MARBI (55) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (56) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (57) Cannon, pg106 (58) Soochow Hospital Extra, pg120 (59) Soochow Hospital Extra, pg120 (60) Golden Jubilee, pg70 (61) Duke University Special Collections, Campbell family collection 1) Cohen, Lucy M.; Chinese in the Post- Civil War South. Louisiana State University Press, Baton Rouge and London; 1984. 2) Carter Cullen T.; Methodist Leaders in the Old Jerusalem Conference 1812 – 1962; The Parthenon Press, Nashville, Tennessee, 1961. 3) Cannon III, James; History of Southern Methodist Missions; Cokesbury Press, Nashville, Tennessee, 1926. 4) Golden Jubilee. MARBL collection, Emory University; Call number BV2550 M48G6. Annual Methodist Report. 5) Kung, S.W.; Chinese in American Life; University of Washington Press, Seattle, Washington, 1962. 6) Miller, Stuart C.; The Unwelcome Immigrant; University of California Press, Berkley and Los Angeles, California, 1969. 7) Lai, Him Mark; Chang, Gordon H.; Yung, Judy; Chinese American Voices; University of California Press, Berkley, Los Angeles, London, 2006. 8) The Independent. Devoted to the Consideration of Politics, Social and Economics. May 15, 1890. APS Online, page 16. 9) Chicago Daily Tribune. Personals May 1, 1890. ProQuest Historical Newspapers, page 4. 10) Kelley family letters from University of Georgia, Lavina Kelley. Accession No.: 2885(M) 11) Campbell family papers from Duke University, David Campbell Kelley 12) McCain, Charles J. Jr.; The Chinese Struggle for Civil Rights in Nineteenth Century America: The First Phase, 1850-1870; California Law Review, 1984. 13) Fritz, Christian G.; A Nineteenth Century "Habeas Corpus Mill": The Chinese before the Federal Courts in California; The American Journal of Legal History, 1988. 14) Soochow Hospital extras; with an appeal for a larger hospital in honor of Dr. Park’s 60th birthday. Shanghai, China, 1917. Pitts Theology library, Emory University, call number: BV3425 .S6 S6 17) Wyeth, John Allan; That Devil Forrest, Life of General Nathan Bedford Forrest; Harper and Brothers, Louisiana, 1959 18) Henry, Robert Selph; First with the Most; William S. Konecky Associates, Inc. New York, 1992. 19) Jordan, Thomas and Pryor, J.P.; The Campaigns of General Nathan Bedford Forrest and of Forrest’s Cavalry; First Da Capo edition, 1996 20) Lytle, Andrew Nelson; Bedford Forrest and His Critter Company; J.S. Sanders and Company, Nashville, 1992. 21) Wills, Brain Steel; A battle form the Start, The Life of Nathan Bedford Forrest; Harper Collins Publishers, 1992 22) Journal of the Tennessee Conference, 1909, Pitts Theology Library, Emory University 23) In Memoriam, Pitts Theology Library, Emory University, Microfilm BX8241 .A1 Reel 21, section 8. 24) Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies, Government Printing Office 25) Manuscript of notes from Major Kelley, Jordon and Pryor. 26) Tennesseans in the Civil War, Vol. 1, Civil War Centennial Commission of Tennessee, 1964. 28) Gordon Kwok and Dr. Oey, advisement on general themes and points which pertained to Chinese fighting in the Civil War, and D.C. Kelley. Written by Robert E. Hale The author, Robert Hale gave permission to the webmaster to post his paper in the Internet. Dated July 19, 2007. Copyright 2007 Robert Hale All Rights reserved Webmaster's note 1: The essay is based on Historical Research and Historical fact. When writing the narrative, the author used some poetic license to make the paper more lively and interesting. For example: on stagecoach. Marshall could ride a horse, or horse-and-carriage, or a stagecoach. The author picked stagecoach. Second example, before the Civil War, Kelley and Marshall might or might not be riding horses together in the plains and mountains of the frontier in Tennessee. It is the author's logical deduction. All these little creative writing would not alter or affect the basic Historical facts. Webmaster's note 2: After Robert Hale's essay was published, a friend of Margarita Park Sherertz Messersmith, the great grand daughter of Rev. and Mrs. James William Lambuth, read this essay and informed Ms. Messersmith about this essay, mentioning her great grand parents. Ms. Messersmith read the essay, and then contacted the webmaster. The webmaster introduced Robert Hale to her, and we all exchanged emails. After several discussions, Ms. Messersmith sent us the unpublished writing of her great grand father, Rev. James William Lambuth, called "Kate in a Heathen Land" The document indicated Charles K. Marshall (Dsau Sier Whoa) accompanied the Lambuth from Mississippi to Tennessee, in the Spring of 1864. Sier Whoa decided to stay in Tennessee to continue his education, and worked part time to support himself, while the Lambuth continued their journey to Cambridge, New York, visiting Mrs. Lambuth's father and family, and continued to New York City to board a ship for China. We got this document after the essay was written. Note 2 was written on May 2, 2008 by the webmaster. Webmaster : Gordon Kwok Email address: July 19, 2007 Revised and uploaded on January 30, 2009	https://sites.google.com/site/accsacw/Home/charles-k--marshall2	<urn:uuid:175fdf65-f08a-4c4e-ba6c-a14f158cfd7d>	en	0.981454	0.022822
butchering wilbur January 23, 2012 7:03 PM Subscribe How do small farmers not become sentimental about killing the animals they've raised and nurtured, even though they've done it expressly for that purpose? posted by crunchland to Pets & Animals (37 answers total) 13 users marked this as a favorite Maybe they don't name them? posted by Fister Roboto at 7:12 PM on January 23, 2012 I have friends with a small hobby farm, from whom I've purchased beef on occasion. They don't get overly sentimental with the cattle. Neither do we, for whatever that's worth. I met these steers. Our kids got to bottle feed them. Now half of one of them is in the freezer. To the extent that they receive names, their names are food: Chocolate, Big Mac, etc. They don't really act very much like pets, either, so it's not like one day you've got an full-grown Black Angus licking your hand and the next day it's in the kill chute. These friends have pets, too: dogs and cats. The pets are treated like pets. The livestock are not treated like pets. posted by jquinby at 7:18 PM on January 23, 2012 [2 favorites] ...and by half of one of them, I mean the beef, not the children. posted by jquinby at 7:19 PM on January 23, 2012 [47 favorites] My grandparents and uncles are/were farmers. I work in a field where a great number of my colleagues grew up on farms. The answer is Practicality, mostly. "The hogs don't get slaughtered, my family doesn't eat." Also, nowadays unless you're on a super small-scale DIY farm, you are shipping the livestock off to a slaughterhouse. I imagine the abstraction eases concerns if they exist. To the slaughterhouse worker, they are simply widgets on a (dis)assembly line...and again, if I don't (dis)assemble the widget, my family doesn't eat. With respect to Fister, that wasn't my experience. Plenty of the farm animals were named as my mom retells stories of childhood. Sometime she and her siblings would "adopt" a calf or bull (from afar) and name it. Sometimes that bought it a longer lifespan, sometimes not. I'm sure there tears. But they lived through it, and developed normal loving relationships with people, pets, yadda, yadda. My mother is actually a vet, and goes to extreme measures to save animals' lives. This isn't any reaction to her childhood; she often recommends putting animals down, as well, in lieu of a life of neglect or potential abuse going through the "system" of animal control or good intentioned but poorly managed non-profit adoption agencies. This is purely my own attempt at pragmatism, but I also feel (seeing it myself though not directly participating) that there is a sort of functional grace you could bestow on farm animals. They die to nourish people and be converted into many useful substances. There are many among us that will never make even that basic a contribution in our lifetime. I signed up to be an organ donor with roughly an equivalent mentality. ::shrug:: posted by keasby at 7:19 PM on January 23, 2012 [2 favorites] jquinby said it best: Pets are treated like pets. Livestock are not treated like pets. I grew up on a small farm with chickens and cattle. We had one chicken that we were fond of, because she was an interesting breed. She stayed alive as a layer. The rest of them eventually became fried chicken, and I helped through the whole process. It didn't bother me. Pets' injuries or illnesses, on the other hand, bother me a great deal. I could never be a vet, because my heart would break every day. It's just compartmentalization, I suspect. posted by ThisKindNepenthe at 7:23 PM on January 23, 2012 [2 favorites] Building on Fister Roboto's comment: From a book of children's writings called Don't Get Perconel with a Chicken, collected by H. Allen Smith, published in 1957: A second-grade teacher in Milwaukee greeted her children at the beginning of a new term with an as- signment to write a composition on "something im- portant you learned during your vacation." Among the essays turned in was the following: By Eloise Coleman On my vacation I visited with my gran parents in Iowa and my gran father learned me dont get perconel with a chicken. My gran father has a few chickens and one was a chicken I got perconel with and gave the name Gene Autry. One day my gran mother deside to have stood chicken for dinner and says Orf you go out and kill a hen meening my gran father. I went with him and low and behole he took a pole with a wire on the end and reeched in the pen and got Gene Autry by the leg and pulled him out and before I cood say a werd he rung his neck wich pulls off his hed and he flops around on the grond back and forth without no hed on and I cryed. He was a brown one. Then he scalted him in hot water and picket the feathers of and saw me crying and says dont ever get perconel with a chicken. When we are at the dinner table he says it again so I ate some, a drumb stick. I dident say any- thing but it was like eating my own rellatives. So dont get perconel with a chicken, also a cow if you are going to eat it later on. Also a caff. Full text of book here. posted by The Deej at 7:25 PM on January 23, 2012 [31 favorites] I guess not all of them do? When my mother and her brothers were little, my grandpa decided that he was going to raise rabbits for meat. He bought a bunch of them and set them up in the garage. When it came time to slaughter them, all the kids went outside to watch. My grandpa, who is a pretty imposing fellow, picked up the first rabbit and a knife. He stood there, contemplating the rabbit, for several seconds. Then, his eyes welled with tears, he put the rabbit and the knife down, and went into the house without saying a word. The next day, the rabbits were given to another, less tenderhearted soul and nobody ever mentioned them again. posted by easy, lucky, free at 7:36 PM on January 23, 2012 [4 favorites] One of my favorite bloggers is a knitwear designer/knitting instructor who lives on a sheep farm. They make a living selling wool and lamb meat, and during lambing season a lot of her content is pictures of cute lambs, about half of which will be slaughtered in time for Easter. Most of the farm-related posts are here - there's a lot to wade through, but some really good stuff (especially during lambing season in January). posted by muddgirl at 7:39 PM on January 23, 2012 [1 favorite] I asked this very question of a friend of mine who raised sheep and pigs in 4-H. She said that it was hard but that she was consoled by the knowledge that her animals had had the best life they possibly could have. posted by corey flood at 7:45 PM on January 23, 2012 My grandparents had a small-scale free range poultry farm, and said above, the birds are not treated as pets. This doesn't mean all critters are treated dispassionately. A pheasant showed up once out of the blue, decided he liked the place, and he was treated somewhat like a pet, or rather as a distinguished guest. Geese, on the other hand, are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They're assholes, and deserve to die. posted by UbuRoivas at 7:46 PM on January 23, 2012 [6 favorites] I did some reporting on this for a local magazine a few years ago and interviewed a few small-scale farmers in NH and ME. Most said a version of "we don't get attached" that you see here, but something they also expressed was a sense of deep intimacy with the animals. Though they aren't pets, they are what's getting you up before dawn and keeping you up after dark. You wash them, feed them, tend their illnesses, birth their babies, and are generally up to your elbows in their...bodies and their stuff of all kinds. They aren't pets, but they're not machines either. You're aware of the investment you've made - what it cost to purchase them young, if you did that, to buy their feed, to get the vet out to see them. You're aware of the hours of labor you've put in, laying down their bedding and raking it up to replace it again, shoveling their feed, walking them out to pasture and back, disentangling their breach birth in the middle of the night, weaning the runts or the young ones whose mother died. Everyone is aware that the only reason they spent that money, the only reason they stayed up those nights, is so they can reap the reward of their efforts. They know the only reason the animals even exist is that food husbandry is bringing them into existence. They have been birthed, raised and cared for, from day one, to be food, and to help the family survive. They have tremendous value and represent a huge outlay of money and labor. That is such an integral part of household economy and family survival that the value of the animals as products is never far from farmers' minds. They have a lot of respect for these animals. But respect is not the same thing as romanticization. They admire their animals, see their beauty, understand their different personalities, but don't wish they could stay alive forever. They have sometimes even seen old animals who were not slaughtered and don't like what they see of farm animal old age - not so un-cruel either, for animals who were not bread to be hale and hearty into their teens and twenties. These farmers felt it important to keep their animals clean, to reduce their stress when they were about to be slaughtered in whatever ways they could, and to make their slaughtering quick and as painless as possible. They believed in what they were doing and found that being present and willing to deal with life and death in its time made their own lives feel more meaningful, made them more conscious of the natural cycles we all move through. When I asked one of the farming women the question "What do you say to people who say, I can't understand how you could eat an animal you raised," she said something like "What I can't understand is how people can eat an animal they didn't raise. I know everything these cattle have ever eaten, every medicine they ever received. I know they walked out to our fields every day and ate fresh pasturage. I know they were warm in the winter and never had to endure dirt, sores, or violence. I know we treated them well, raised them with a good life, and when we eat them we give thanks for how they gave our family this gift of independence and survival. Sop I don't understand how people can eat animals they have no relationship with, because I know they can't be sure of any of that." posted by Miko at 7:51 PM on January 23, 2012 [46 favorites] I grew up on a small farm. We raised chickens, pigs and cattle. Some of them had very distinct personalities and most of them had names, but that never stopped us from eating them. We knew that was why we were raising them. posted by DaddyNewt at 7:56 PM on January 23, 2012 [1 favorite] Back home on the ranch, my father wouldn't let me raise a calf for 4-H. He said that it was encouraging me to make a pet out of livestock, and it would only end badly, and he was right. We never named animals destined for the stock yards or the sale barn. But when you've got 100,000 acres and a lot of cattle--they all look the same, especially on a cold winter morning. posted by Ideefixe at 7:58 PM on January 23, 2012 I think the issue is one of intent. When you raise an animal with the intent to slaughter and eat it, you just aren't going to form the same bond you would with, for example, a pet. When I was a child, we had a heifer every year that we kept for the spring, summer, and fall, and then had butchered. We always named them and ended up spending a fair bit of time feeding them and so on. Even when I was quite young, it was always clear to me that the heifer was there to become meat, and that was that. I'd even turn the question around as an answer: Small farmers do not become sentimental about killing the animals they've raised and nurtured, because they've done it expressly for that purpose. posted by ssg at 8:14 PM on January 23, 2012 And then sometimes there's a steer where the sentiment is roughly equal, and you know that if he had a chance he'd take you out. (best sausage ever!) posted by sammyo at 8:15 PM on January 23, 2012 [3 favorites] I've just been reading James Herriot's books, and it seems like it's mostly practicality in the small farmers who are his clients. Many of the stories do revolve around a farmer who has a favorite, but the favorite is most often a dog, dairy cow, or sometimes a farrowing pig. He ruminates occasionally on doing veterinary work on animals intended for slaughter, to make them as healthy and happy as possible, and on how farmers and vets shouldn't get attached but sometimes do. posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:16 PM on January 23, 2012 I think the answer's in the question. On preview, what ssg said. posted by perspicio at 8:19 PM on January 23, 2012 I grew up in a small town farming community, and I had pet lambs that ended up on the dinner table. It wasn't until recently that I could see how you COULD get sentimental about animals being killed for food (or at all, really). I think it's all about knowing right from the start that that is what will happen. I mean, you don't go around being upset about the way the birds singing outside your window will die by being eaten by cats or foxes, or getting run over, or (maybe) of old age, right? You don't cry when you step on ants. This is because these ways of dying are expected parts of these animals lives and this knowledge forms part of your basic understanding of them. The same thing is true of farm animals. That's not to say that farmers/kids in country towns don't feel upset if they see an animal SUFFERING. While it is suffering. That is hard to watch, and there is no reason to try reasonable means to avoid it. But it's different from either knowing that the animal will probably suffer at least a bit one day in the future (cf. my birds example above), or watching it die a quick and relatively painless death now (cf my ants example.) posted by lollusc at 8:27 PM on January 23, 2012 [1 favorite] I grew up on a small-ish farm [500 acres] and I can still remember the first time I connected the animals that lived on our farm with their fate as meat products. It was as shocking seeing all the blood and guts as it would be to city folk I imagine. Then you kinda get used to that reality and it becomes a matter or routine I suppose. We've been known to sit at the dining table looking at a fat steak and saying 'oooh, is this Sooky?!' I think it's a little more complex that simple compartmentalising of pets vs food. From my experience, these were blurred lines. There were dogs for inside the garden fence who were petted and nurtured, and dogs kept lean and hungry, that were chained up in a shed next to an old rainwater tank. They were strictly working dogs for whom angry sounding instructions were their affection. If they didn't perform during round ups they were shot. [Although, a long-serving bitch would be an honoured creature and I can recall my father crying when he had to put her down.] We had 'pet' sheep we reared if a ewe didn't feed her lamb. We also had pet kangaroos even though we ate kangaroo and shot them as pests. We hand reared heifers that we gave names and eventually put them on the truck to the slaughterhouse. There was always a bit of silence in the house as they mooed and groaned in the truck as it drove off. Sometimes there were tears but I have to say that the truck coming was better than having to witness the death of these animals. One of our 'pet' sheep ran up to my father as he was holding the knife, hoping for a pat. That was hard. Although, for me, once the head is cut off, it is mentally re-categorised as meat. I suspect no one likes thinking about the reality of meat production but I am consoled by the humane way in which animals in small holdings like ours are treated overall. One short truck ride to a local abattoir, full of trained, local people we know [so they're not untrained assholes treating animals brutally], the use a stun gun, and hopefully no battering or electric prodding - this ending for a life of ample food and free-range experience for the year or two previous beats the hell out of more industrialised modes of meat production. [Live export for example is disgusting to me.] Miko's final quote in her comment above feels pretty true to me: I think my experience of killing and eating animals that we know personally is far better than what most people are eating without knowing a thing about the animals or their lives and deaths. posted by honey-barbara at 8:30 PM on January 23, 2012 [5 favorites] It comes down to practicality. If you eat beef, you know that you're going to turn Mr. Steer into hamburgers. Because it's your animal, you have the responsibility to care for him in a proper fashion. In turn, the animal provides you with healthful food. From the get-go, you select a beef calf with the conformation and muscling that will give you plenty of meat, you feed your animal for weight gain and proper muscling and fat layering knowing that will affect the taste, and you give consideration to producing your meat in the healthiest yet the most inexpensive manner. You're keeping the cost per pound down. Many of the folks I know name their beef cattle: Freezer, Himburger, Buffet, etc. and might even give them a few rubs and treats. But all along, the goal of creating quality meat is there, and there is a certain acknowledgement that the animal's life will be limited to the time when it can fulfill it's intended use. Mr. Steer is never referred to as part of the 'family'. You feed the animal; the animal feeds you. With pets, the selection is for companionship, cuteness, loveablity, perhaps a bit of usefulness in the case of a guard dog or hunting dog. The pet is part of the family, will usually have its picture taken, and might even have its name signed on the yearly Christmas card. People 'waste' money on pets in that they will buy toys, fancy collars/leashes, treats, beds, etc. for their own and the animals enjoyment. The goal there is the forming of a strong bond, with closeness and longevity in the relationship. posted by BlueHorse at 8:31 PM on January 23, 2012 I grew up on a farm. The cattle we raised, while we knew them, were nothing more than food or a paycheck to us. They aren't pets, they're employees. Some of them get promoted to Head of the Food Chain Division, some of them get sent to another branch of the company, where they will have their own successes. posted by deezil at 8:33 PM on January 23, 2012 [1 favorite] Nick Jurkowski doesn't mind eating ostriches because they're such jerks. posted by bitterkitten at 9:05 PM on January 23, 2012 Our kids got to bottle feed them This... I named my newborn "pet" calves "Jay" and "Son", then a year later I ate 'em. Circle of life people, circle of life... posted by jkaczor at 9:08 PM on January 23, 2012 Hey, it's the stet signal -- but I beat him here! stet and I watched/helped with the slaughter of our three pigs today. I just finished my bowl of fresh deviled pork kidneys. We are sentimental. They didn't have names -- except that the one screamed who a lot (for fun apparently) was called Screamy, and one was more timid than the others so that was Skittish, and the other was ... the other one. I fist-bumped them on their noses every day that I went to feed them; they knew what I meant when I put my fist out and they would put their wiggly (muddy) noses on me, on purpose. I fist-bumped each of them today before stet poured their last serving of grain and milk into the bowl so they would be easy to shoot. I am definitely sentimental. We had a good, competent, experienced slaughter guy who was a really good shot (crucial) and was respectful and fast with the carcasses. I was really nervous and sad, and I'm still sad not to see them tomorrow, but I feel good about how it went down, ultimately. This is basically the first time we've had someone else do our critters for us. We raise, process, and sell 200-300 chickens and turkeys a year, by hand -- that is, we do it ourselves. These were our first pigs, but we've done sheep and goats for ourselves, and stet has helped other friends with their slaughter for personal consumption. We don't send anybody to a factory or a plant. We sell directly to our end customers, which is legal in Washington with the proper permits (easy to get). I guess we are a "a super small-scale DIY farm" but part of the reason we do what we do is that I believe that sending the critters away -- the act of the travel itself -- is stressful and generally bad for their quality of life as well as the quality of the resulting meat. This limits us -- we can't legally sell to restaurants, for example -- but the critter's life is the point. And as corey flood said, "a friend of mine who raised sheep and pigs in 4-H. She said that it was hard but that she was consoled by the knowledge that her animals had had the best life they possibly could have." -- this is totally true. This is huge. We raise our critters on pasture, always. We do keep our broiler chickens and our turkeys in chicken tractors, because the farm where we raise them has a lot of eagles and osprey, and when we balanced the benefit of them being fully free-range vs the danger they'd be in (and, yes, the financial losses we would face), we couldn't make the math work out. (There's a whole nother post to write about farm animals' role in improving the soil, but that seems irrelevant here.) We medicate them when they need it but not when they don't. We keep our herds/flocks really small for many reasons, but not least is that it means we know the individuals, and so we can keep an eye on them every day, and know how they are doing as individuals, and therefore treat them individually when they need it but avoid blanket application of antibiotics (for example) to the whole herd. Yes, this also ultimately means we know them as individuals too, and we feel it, when it comes to slaughter day, whether or not we're the ones wielding the knives/guns. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that that's built into the process. We make the choices we make for them, and feeling sad is an outcome of that, but the positivity of the whole rest of their lives, and our experience with them, is the main goal. Even though we're sad today. posted by librarina at 9:47 PM on January 23, 2012 [10 favorites] My mom grew up on a farm, and she and her sister named the animals, and later ate them. My mom said her sister would cry, and not want to eat Bessie, but that she herself just didn't think about it. I get that. I used to kill rats for a living, as a technician in a research lab. They were pregnant Sprague-Dawley (white) rats, bred to be docile, and they were sooo sweet. So I'd pet them (if no one was looking), tell them they were cute, and then kill them and harvest their fetuses' brains. Old people with dementia are less cute than Sprague-Dawley rats, for sure, but our lab existed to help people. Once they sent us not-pregnant rats by mistake, and we actually felt really bad about having "sacrificed" the rats for no reason, no science, no benefit to humanity. That was the only time anything like, "It was so trusting and sweet, and I butchered it," ever bothered me. posted by pH Indicating Socks at 10:22 PM on January 23, 2012 [3 favorites] Building on what others have said, I think for me as a child there were two things in addition to the blurry 'not pet's thing. One, if you farm animals, they will be dying pretty regularly with or without your hand. They get sick. They get stuck in the mud. They eat something they shouldn't, get taken by single, hawks, whatever, or they simply disappear and you never know until you stumble across some moss green bones years later in the scrub. As games are full of life, so too are they full of death, and slaughter is just bother flavour. Two, it is farming, and it might be helpful to think about farming crops for instance. The purpose of wheat and corn is to be harvested; as a farmer you are shepherding those crops to literal fruition, and you care for animals just like you care for a Peachtree or field of potatoes. That may sound very cold to those outside farming, but what im saying is you do care for the plants and the animals both, but it's a different type of caring, a Lind of stewardship o suppose that is also connected with caring for the land overall. That's how it was for me anyway. posted by smoke at 1:00 AM on January 24, 2012 [2 favorites] Sorry, read dingo for single, and farms for games. Damned phone.o posted by smoke at 1:03 AM on January 24, 2012 I know an organic farmer in Western Maryland. (He's also a good friend.) One day, my partner was visiting that farmer and getting the tour of the farm and they went into the rather large rabbit hutch that he keeps and they were all cute and fuzzy and bunnies and so on, and my partner said, "Oh! How Cute! Do they have names?" Answer: "Lunchmeat" posted by kalessin at 4:24 AM on January 24, 2012 I'm with librarina and smoke; to keep livestock is to accept responsibility for an entire life, as well as for its impact on the land, the time and labor it requires of you, and for whatever is left after you end that life. It's duty and logistics and doing right by the animal, and that frame--including the sure knowledge that I am going to eat an animal--enables me to respect and care for it without loving it. I also have house cats, every one of which has always been a rescue. They were born somewhere else, cared for or sheltered by someone else in their early months, and come to me in process. Yes, I take them to the vet, but they basically integrate themselves into the house and family, and curl up with us at night and I cry like hell when I finally bury them. Contrast turkeys: We have to order them months in advance;, build a pen with a warming light; pick them up at the post office as three-day-olds; feed and water them daily and check on them (and the ambient temperature!) every few hours for weeks; protect them from predators when they're older; construct a shelter; run to the feed mill; fill the waterer every day or three; hope that they don't get sick or escape. When slaughter time comes, we have to find and set up our equipment; segregate the turkey(s) for 24 hours; kill the birds; scald them, pluck them, eviscerate them; bury the bits we don't use; store the birds until we can cook them; cook them, serve them; spend several days making and canning turkey stock. The time and work and planning involved are demanding, and have to be fit in around everything else that's going on, but everything that we do with our turkeys begins with, and revolves around, the knowledge of their temporary status. We have a duty to them to give them good lives as animals while they're with us; we are stewards of their lives and deaths. This line, from Terry Pratchett's "The Wee Free Men," sticks with me. It is from a character who's the wise woman of sheep and the keeper of their hills: “We order the time o’ their birth and the time o’ their death. Between times, we ha’ a duty.’” I do the duty with care, with attention, with thoroughness, with respect, without loving, and do right by my creatures' whole lifespan. posted by MonkeyToes at 5:13 AM on January 24, 2012 [4 favorites] My grandfather wasn't a preacher, but he could have been. He could say grace with the best of them. When one of the animals on the farm became dinner, he always made sure to thank the animal at the table. Since bringing it to the table had generally involved three or four days very hard, loathsome work, it wasn't a grieving time. Sometimes the little ones would cry, so they had to eat in the kitchen. The rest of us just exchanged glances and dug in. posted by halfbuckaroo at 5:25 AM on January 24, 2012 Thoughtful humor And more delicious Dale-ness And that's my feeble, second-hand contribution to a tremendous thread. posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:11 AM on January 24, 2012 I asked this question yesterday because I had just finished watching an episode of Victorian Farm, specifically the part where Peter decides that with one of their larger pigs getting ready to give birth to piglets, there won't be enough room in the pig sty for their other pigs. So he chooses the fattest of his Tamworths, and leads it off to slaughter. Just watching that segment just killed me. I've thought, at various times, of setting up a rabbit hutch and doing a little DIY meat production, but every time I get to thinking about the logistics of it, I just can't bring myself to the harvest part. I can pick a tomato without giving it a thought. I can boil a lobster or a clam, too. I once was in this big huge grocery store outside of Cincinnati, buying groceries to feed my extended family, and they had huge fishtanks of live fish. And I just couldn't bring myself to ask the fishmonger to catch the swimming tilapia for me, even though I knew it would be the freshest fish I could possibly buy. And yes, I know that when they're in the little styrofoam trays, or lying in ice in the case, I have no problem buying, preparing, and eating it then. So what I guess I'm getting at is that it's just something you get used to over time. posted by crunchland at 8:47 AM on January 24, 2012 I think one thing I've learned about small farms from reading about Leyden Glen farms is that a lot of (successful) small farmers grew up on farms. When you've been watching animal birth, predation, and sickness all your life, slaughter for human consumption can just becomes part of the circle of life. And the people who don't absorb that lesson don't become farmers. posted by muddgirl at 8:55 AM on January 24, 2012 And you can't save any animal from death (not even yourself). You can sometimes choose when and how it comes, but you can't prevent it from happening in the grand scheme. posted by Miko at 8:57 AM on January 24, 2012 [3 favorites] For what its worth, most farm animals make terrible pets. I've deleted iPhone Apps with more personality and complexity than any sheep or chicken I've met. A former girl friend grew up on a hobby farm, and according to her, when faced with the option of not eating meat for a month, its not to hard to slaughter the cows or turkey's that you've grown up with. This isn't true for all animals though. Apparently goats are really clever animals with a fair bit of sociability and will actually bond with the person who spends the most time with them. The girlfriend I mentioned above would rather be less a few barn cats than slaughter the goats she raised in high school. posted by midmarch snowman at 9:16 AM on January 24, 2012 Also Wilbur especially? (Referring to your title.) You may not know this but most pigs, when they grow up, get really really, really cussed. Also they are not too far from the wild pig, who is one of the few hunted animals I have no compunctions about hunting - the pig and the wild pig will both hurt, maim, try to kill you and possibly eat you if you go down. I consider pork to be the least ethically challenging meat to eat. Many grown pigs can be very deserving of death, dismemberment and eating, as far as I'm concerned. Because they'd do the same to me. You are a technological, industrialized monkey and you have canines. Dig in. posted by kalessin at 1:43 PM on January 24, 2012 A friend of mine raises meat animals for a living. The females, which she keeps around for breeding, get names like Daisy and Spot. The males, who are sold for meat around a year of age, get names like Ninety-Six and Ninety-Seven. posted by orangejenny at 4:26 PM on January 24, 2012 [2 favorites] « Older I am trying to find a movie th... \| Luxury or necessity? For a pe... Newer » This thread is closed to new comments.	http://ask.metafilter.com/206440/butchering-wilbur	<urn:uuid:553c1fe0-56fa-45b3-9699-3ca6b043264d>	en	0.984237	0.054513
Uppercase germandbls is coming to Unicode twardoch's picture Andreas Stötzner and the German DIN committee submitted a proposal to the ISO 10646 working group that uppercase ß (germandbls, eszett, sharp s) should be added to Unicode/ISO 10646. U+1E9E is the envisioned codepoint. The proposal can be viewed at: It is important to note that according to the proposal, even after adding this character to Unicode, the standard uppercase mapping for "ß" will remain "SS". This encoding effort is not about changing existing application or even spelling rules -- it is simply an effort to encode a character to be used in an "alternate" spelling which some people use (and currently have problems with properly encoding the text). It is an observed fact that "uppercase ß" exists, even if the official rules don't envision it. I believe it is an interesting effort, and it would be reasonable to discuss what the best possible shape for the new character would be. Some links in German: http://www.signographie.de/cms/signa_9.htm (published by Andreas Stötzner, I recommend reviewing all the PDFs published there.) Some German type designers posted some of their design proposals for an uppercase ß at: I find many of these design proposals structurally flawed -- they don’t look like uppercase letters. They look like lowercase letters enlarged to match uppercase. The graphical structure of the Roman uppercase is very different from lowercase. If one were to invent a new uppercase letter, it would have to stylistically match the Roman uppercase. If Unicode really decides to encode uppercase ß, type designers should imagine what the uppercase ß would have looked from the very beginning, rather than trying to work out of the existing lowercase ß form. Note that the history of "ß" is somewhat surprising. The letter developed in a two-wise way: as a ligation of long s and round ("normal") s, and as a ligation of long s and z. The German language adopted unified spelling rules only in 1901. Before that, both in the middle ages and in the humanist period, German spelling differed much. For example, "Thor" and "Tor" were equal variants of spelling the word meaning "gate". Sharp s was denoted by different writers differently (as ſs or ſz, which looked like ſʒ). The graphical shape of the ß ligature developed independently in these two ways. This dichotomy still shows itself in a small minority practice of uppercasing ß as "SZ" rather than "SS". Incidentally, this practice is understandable for most German readers (though not actively practiced), i.e. "GROSZSTADT" or "MASZGEBLICH" is understandable as the uppercasing of Großstadt or maßgeblich. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamt/490566363/ for an example. One interesting issue is that in the 1996 spelling reform the status of ß as a single letter has been finally confirmed. In the previous spelling, the general rule was that short vowels are denoted by following them by doubled consonant letters while long vowels are followed by single consonant letters. So writing "met" always indicates a long "e:" while "mett" indicates a short "e". In case of "s"/"ß", it was confusing. Following a vowel with a single "s" always denoted a long vowel, following a vowel with a doubled "ss" indicated a short vowel, but following a vowel with "ß" did not give clue whether the vowel was short or long. So "Ruß" was actually pronounced "ru:s" as if the "ß" stood for a single consonant letter, but "Nuß" was pronounced "nus" as if the "ß" stood for a doubled consonant letter. The 1996 spelling removed this uncertainty by changing the spelling of all "ß" into "ss" when the preceding vowel was to be pronounced short. Today’s spelling of "Nuss" or "dass" underlines that the vowels are to be pronounced short. The uppercasing of "ß" as "SS" but also as "SZ" defeats this clear rule. If I uppercase the word "Rußpartikel" into "RUSSPARTIKEL" or even "RUSZPARTIKEL", suddenly the natural way of pronouncing the "U" changes from short to long, so the reader is confused. The confusion is even bigger now, after the reform, because the special "undefined" treatment of "ß" no longer exists, so readers are used to "ß" being always treated as a single consonant letter, not as a ligature of a doubled consonant. To remain logical, consistent and reader-friendly, "ß" needs (at some point) to assume a single graphemic shape in the uppercase. I strongly feel that uppercasing "ß" as "SS" is now -- especially under the new rules -- a temporary anachronism. "ß" is a single CHARACTER (as per orthographic perception). It has functionally liberated itself from its historical background (which was a ligature of ſs or ſz). Today, "ß" is no more a ligature of "ſs" than "ä" is a ligature of "ae". The transition process from "ae" to "ä" has been completed about 200 years ago, and the transition process between "ſs" to "ß" is happening now. Encoding the uppercase "ä" as "A ZWJ E" (or something like that) would make as little sense as encoding the uppercase "ß" as "S ZWJ S". I believe that "SS" is an anachronic, still-in-use but slowly-to-vanish poor man’s solution to write the uppercase "ß". I believe that it should be an exciting task for type designers now to come up with a new form. In my opinion, this issue is definitely not one that is completely solved. We’re in the middle of a slow transition period for "ß". The 1996 reform started it and showed the direction. I myself once had the idea that Scedilla (U+015E, Ş) would be most appropriate for denoting uppercase ß. After all, Ş is historically an S with a subscribed z (that at this time looked like ʒ). Since ß is a ligature of either ſs or of ſʒ, uppercasing it as Sʒ, or, effectively, Ş, would historically make sense. Using this notation, "Gauß" or "Roßberg" would be uppercased to "GAUŞ" or "ROŞBERG". Similarly, the umlaut in "ä" or "ö" is historically a superscripted "e", so historically "ä" and "æ" are two different ligations of "ae", and "ö" and "œ" are two different ligations of "oe". Since German readers are currently used to uppercasing ß as SS, i.e. they write "GAUSS" or "ROSSBERG", I even thought of a compromise: the SS remains doubled but for added distinctiveness, a subscribed z (i.e. a cedilla) is added after the first S. In other words, "Gauß" or "Roßberg" should be uppercased as "GAUŞS" or "ROŞSBERG". Historically, this would make sense. The cedilla would here have a similar function to the trema in Spanish or French: "GAUŞS" would make clear that it comes from "Gauß" while "GAUSS" would make clear that it comes from "Gauss". "ROŞSBERG" does not look very awkward to a German reader. The addition of a diacritic does not dramatically change the reading pattern but still adds a distinctive mark that is, indeed, needed. If I were to design a glyph that should go into U+1E9E, it would probably look like ŞS, or perhaps just SS, depending on the style of the typeface. An alternative approach is to look at the existing uppercase-to-lowercase relations within the Latin alphabet and try to derive a shape for the uppercase ß which maintains the same relations. In most of the middle ages and the period up until the 19th century, the long s ("ſ") and "f" were closely related, "f" being simply a "ſ" with a stroke going through. The same, very primitive graphic relation exists between the prototypic shapes of the Greek letters gamma (Γ) and digamma (Ϝ). Since the minuscule "f" always has been a "ſ" with a middle stroke, then the capital "F" might also be considered an uppercase "ſ" with a stroke going through. Of course an uppercase long s never existed, but this relation may be helpful when constructing the uppercase ß. Because I think that if the Latin alphabet ever used or needed another capital S, the preferred shape could be that of a gamma (Γ). This is a simple, effective shape that maintains a stylistic relation to the lowercase long s that is typical of other uppercase-to-lowercase relations. If we look at the relations between Aa Ee Ff Mm Pp, we will notice that sharp, edgy connections in the uppercase are related to more smooth, round connections in the lowercase. If "F" developed into "f" in a cursive hand, then it is very easy to imagine that a cursive rendition of the "Γ" shape might, indeed, look very much like "ſ". This is an important observation when thinking about the shape of an uppercase "ß": I assert that the shape of uppercase "ß" must be "edgier" than the lowercase. In short, I think that the left part of uppercase ß should be "Γ". What about the right part? Here, I would call to exploit the double origin of "ß", which developed paralelly as a ligature of "ſs" as well as of "ſz" (where the "z" historically used the "ʒ" shape, so "ſʒ"). These days, the lowercase "ß" is typically derived from the ligated form of "ſs". For visual dissimilation purposes -- to strongly set apart the lowercase and the (new) uppercase "ß" I would derive the uppercase "ß" from a ligation of the hypothetical uppercase "ſ" (i.e. "Γ") and the shape of "the other" origin of "ß", i.e. of the historical "Z" shape. In short, I believe that the best graphical rendition of an uppercase "ß" would be be a well-designed ligature that incorporates these shapes: "ΓƷ" I have made a small simulation using Garamond Premier (please excuse my poor drawing abilities): The first line shows what the historical origin of ß looks like, i.e. long s followed by a round s. The second line shows the current shape of ß as we know it. The third line shows what a hypothetical uppercase long S might look like ("Γ"), which is just a mental exercise. The fourth line is my proposal for the uppercase ß shape. Andreas Stötzner has proposed an elaborate document that tries to explore all possible combinations of drawing an uppercase ß: My proposal corresponds to the scheme A1-B2-C1, which I has the most "uppercase" appearance of all those presented there. On a related matter, at the exhibition "Neue Baukunst. Berlin um 1800", which is on display at the Alte Nationalgalerie in Berlin until May 28, I have discovered a fantastic calligraphic lowercase "ß" shape, in which the "long s" part connects to the BOTTOM and not to the top of the following "short s". Please take a look: This got my imagination going. Nick Shinn's picture Here are some more I've done recently, for Oneleigh and Goodchild. These will be released soon in updates. I prefer the "Leipziger" style for old-style (Antiqua) faces. Mark Simonson's picture That pointy part at the upper right of the Leipzig variant just looks weird to me. I can't think of any other letter that's made using a pinched vertex like that. In spite of that, yours are looking pretty convincing, Nick. How would it look in something really bold or geometric like Soft Machine? :-0 Nick Shinn's picture You're right about the pinched vertex being unusual. I'm afraid I didn't rationalize it too much! The Leipzig variant would be a challenge in something really bold or geometric, but for me it just seems appropriate for the old style, and I'll probably go with the Dresdner variant for Softmachine. piccic's picture I think as designers, we work on glyphs and have a knowledge of what is the essence of that glyph […] I think Chris is entirely right. I think you should get the essence of a letterform. Since the SS is a "S-related" or "S-sound" letter, I couldn't treat it as an "abstract" form to invent. Here's my form for Neoritmo. The UC [ß] is the same height of the [H], which has an ascending part. The interruption of the [ß]s is a choice, and the form can be seen continuous. What I think is that we may compensate for its feeling of "lowercaseness" by making the upper left corner a "supercurve" (more angular), and thus neither rounded nor angled. piccic's picture P.S. Nick, why did you use for the UC of Oneleigh Roman the "Leipzig" form, while the LC had the "Dresden" one? ralf h.'s picture many of these are hard to distinguish without context: Il1, O0o, rnm, 5S, 2Zz. ... Context helps a lot. I totally agree to that, but the thing is: B and capital sharp S will always appear in the same context, so we need a clear distinction within the skeleton of the letter. Context can not always help: "Die große Wurst" (the big sausage). "Die grobe Wurst" (the coarse sausage). I wouldn't even mind if different shapes come into use (as with single/double-storey a and g), as long as they cannot be mistaken for a B. Nick Shinn's picture why did you use for the UC of Oneleigh Roman the “Leipzig” form, while the LC had the “Dresden” one? I see what you mean. I chose the Dresdner form for the LC as I liked the way the top stroke suggested a chirographic break with the bottom, and that quirkyness seemed to suit the face. I don't think there's a necessity to have overt shape-echoes between the cases, as the UC eszett only appears in all-cap settings. The main thing is to have the cap Eszett look well in all-cap settings, and the LC ß look good in mixed case. cuttlefish's picture Here is how I've handled this character in Agamemnon, Californian Grotesque, Palormak, and Effluent: These are all works in progress and subject to change. I've tried a variety of the suggested solutions and these seem to work best within their own context, being neither to lower-casey nor B -like, and certainly unmistakable for their lower-case counterparts. I keep forgetting or swapping in my mind what distinguishes the Leipzig from the Dresden form, and I'm not sure how either applies to my designs, so I'll refrain from using those words for now. I'm sure there is room for improvement. dezcom's picture Those look good to me except the last one (the didone). The Greek Gamma plus s just looks like a strange creature or an old Hangman game? cuttlefish's picture I agree that one on Effluent (the didone) looks pretty odd, but the other styles weren't working at all on that one. It is the same structure Tim Ahrens used for his, though. Nick Job's picture Purely out of respect, don't you have to look at what German typographers have done/are doing/will do with this character? Is this not one for German designers to solve (at this 'early' stage at least)? This is a uniquely German challenge, isn't it? I can't help thinking that if there were a 'new' character used only in my language, that if someone steamed in from another country that spoke and wrote a different language and told me what it ought to look like... If one can get rather animated and protective over the correct vs incorrect angle of the smallest accent in a particular language, how much more would an entire character get tensions running high. I feel completely unqualified to comment on any of these designs, much as I like some and dislike others. I am far more interested in what, for example, Ralf thinks (he is the 'consumer'), especially as he has been so helpful by elucidating some of the issues involved, which would never have occurred to me. Just because there is going to be a gap in the Unicode list, it doesn't mean it has to be filled in a given font, especially not with dross (I'm not saying the designs above are dross, by the way). The slightly irritating fact of the matter is that the trend is in danger of being set by the hastiest designers rather than considered and informed solutions which might solve the problem in a more efficient manner. Idealistic, I know. I'm sure someone will pile in and put me straight. For all sorts of reasons, let's not regret our Eszetts. Mark Simonson's picture Granted. I just hope that whatever form is settled on, it will fit comfortably and flexibly into the typographic gamut. Nick Shinn's picture Nick, I don't think the trend will be set by the "hastiest designers", I'd credit German typographers with more sense than that. I don't believe this is a problem non-German designers can't solve, it's not very difficult in that respect. All the background is accessible in this thread. All we need to know is summarized by Jason, All we have to do is make that work in our own types, and you can see an example in Jason's Agamemnon--surely you don't have to be German to appreciate how nicely the Eszett is realized as an expression of that typeface, how well it integrates with the other characters? hrant's picture Every time I catch my breath long enough to post to this thread, it has already grown beyond recognition! It warms my heart - I love newborn characters. This is clearly a tricky design problem, with many factors pushing and pulling. If German didn't use caps so much, the problem of the cap eszet looking too much like a "B" would be secondary. But that's what we have to work with. I mostly agree with Nick on the "nativity" issue in this case. As unnerving as the ethnic intrusion might feel to some (I know from my own experience of watching non-Armenians design Armenian type), especially because this is a new character/glyph I think non-Germans can contribute a lot. That said, of course Germans are the "customer". Even though we can't trust laymen to give reliable feedback about a proposed glyph's stylistic integrity with the whole or its non-ligatureness, the issue of diverging sufficiently from the "B" is something I think that only German laymen can help us with. So I propose rounding up the best few candidates (for a normal text font, like maybe Georgia), preparing a Flash movie where some carefully-chosen words are... flashed for varying very short durations in front of readers on non-typographic web sites, and then ask them what they read. Mark Simonson's picture It's sort of a chicken and egg problem. The reason we can read something in a "flash" is because we are thoroughly familiar with the forms. If you introduce unfamiliar forms, the odds are stacked against their being interpreted correctly, no matter how reasonably the forms have been designed. hrant's picture If you only show individual glyphs, certainly. But if you carefully chose the words that either have a "B" or a cap eszet, I think you might start getting a feel for the boundaries. Think for example of the word "apposite" in English. It's a much rarer word than "opposite", so in Avant Garde for example you will get many more people reading it as "opposite", but in Quadraat for example more people will read it as "apposite", even if they don't even know what it means. BTW, "apposite" sort of means the opposite of "opposite". :-) So we would need to find German word pairs like that, and try the different proposed cap eszets to gauge which ones look less like a "B". Nick Shinn's picture That's an interesting proposition Hrant (research-worthy), and the results would be valuable, but your example would appear to legitimize forms that are not optimal for disambiguation. If the single bowl "a" is apposite in Avant Garde, Futura, etc., why shouldn't a cap eszett that is somewhat B-ish be OK in some faces?-- and in fact I think Mark's cap eszett for Futura is like that; it's B-ish, and it seems to suit the face precisely for that reason. Tim Ahrens's picture If German didn’t use caps so much, the problem of the cap eszet looking too much like a “B” would be secondary. But that’s what we have to work with. I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain that? Nick Job's picture Nick S When I said 'hastiest', maybe I should have said 'most eager' and maybe being eager is a good qualification to set the pace. Maybe I was hasty, sorry. > I don’t believe this is a problem non-German designers can’t solve... You're absolutely right, anyone from anywhere can solve a problem (to say otherwise would be bordering on racism), but in this case isn't it a bit like telling a French, Spanish, Catalan person etc, what their cedillas should look like, when they were the ones who invented it/them? That just makes me nervous. There remains a conflict in my mind because the reality is that no-one can really tell me what my Eszett should look like in my own font. It's no-one else's business (not even Germans) and in that sense we all have to be able to solve the problem for every font that we design. However, I'm still intrigued because the 'problem' seems to have only come to light in recent times (hasn't it?) That makes me think Germans were not that bothered about solving it (not as bothered about it as the majority of us on this thread who aren't German) and for us to tell them that they have a problem makes me very nervous. Finally, on a creative note, no-one can have a genuine problem with this new character being B-ish? (P and R are all relatively B-ish but voice completely different sounds) as long as the two characters cannot be mistaken in context (that is where Ralf and friends have indispensable advice). In the end usage and context may well design this character for us. Was ever a character conceived in this 'mass committee' way before? guifa's picture Was ever a character conceived in this ’mass committee’ way before? Not just a character but an entire alphabet. Jongseong's picture Not just a character but an entire alphabet. Actually, despite the popular Korean belief that King Sejong appointed his team of scholar-officials with the creation of hangul (the Korean alphabet), modern scholars agree that it was a personal project of the king himself. So hangul was not conceived by a mass committee. As for characters that were designed in a mass-committee manner... I have no idea, but maybe phonetic symbols? Characters for some African orthographies? Nick Shinn's picture Nick, I don't see this character as a problem, but an opportunity created by Unicode and OpenType. Unicode and OpenType, among other things, are part of present-day internationalism, and the field of font design and production are wide open to foundries worldwide. If foreign type-designers are heavy-handed, it's up to indigenous typographers to ignore their typefaces. Trans-national corporations like Microsoft and Adobe, that are bundling large numbers of fonts globally, have to be more circumspect, because their types will become something of a de facto standard. However, the fact that there is a variety of options available to those who choose and purchase fonts from independent foundries should provide cultural checks and balances, while allowing some "foreign spice" to make things more interesting. hrant's picture Nick, what I'm describing is merely an observation tool - it can only help a designer make a decision; it cannot replace the designer's overall judgment. Of the three factors I can discern, namely stylistic fit, non-ligatureness and non-"B"-ness, only the last can be addressed by the sort of informal field study I describe. And all such a field study could do is give the designers a feeling for how a glyph is being read. That still leaves the bulk of decision-making to the designer's judgment. So for example you might only give up on a very "B"-like cap eszet for Avant Garde if the study results are totally disastrous. > I don’t understand what you mean. Can you explain that? I was hoping my "apposite" example clarified things. But let me try this: you choose a pair of German words where one has a "B" in one spot while the other has an eszet in the same spot (ideally with both words having comparable frequency; or you could weight the results based on the relative frequencies). You set them in all-caps and flash them for very short periods in front of readers, then ask them to type the word. Refinements might involve: using different durations, maybe between 1/10 and 1/4 of a second; using words that start with "B"/cap-eszet and setting the rest in lc; and putting the words in the parafovea (by asking the reader to focus on a point that's some distance* to the left of the flashed word). * To be determined by factoring in screen resolution and viewing distance; tricky. > Germans were not that bothered about solving it Well, most Germans don't design fonts. :-) In fact many Germans want[ed] to dump the lc eszet! For shame. > ... as long as the two characters cannot be mistaken in context 1) Sometimes they could. But the fewer words that might have this problem, the lesser the problem, and the less it makes sense to sweat it, I agree. 2) This is a new character. Changing an established character is a whole other animal! > modern scholars agree that it was a personal project of the king himself. Really? I didn't know that. In a way, that's even more impressive (or maybe my monarchist tendencies are at play :-). It's worth noting here that many people (including myself) consider Hangul to be by far the most powerful and elegant writing system. To me it makes English look like the village idiot. > characters that were designed in a mass-committee manner A mass, anonymous committee: ralf h.'s picture No, because were designing a completely new character here, not changing an existing one. Anyone in the world can understand the design problems and solve them. As for me, I really appreciate the ideas in this thread. The introduction of complete new alphabets is a different thing, because everyone was forced to learn a completely new system. But here we're trying to sneak in a new character in a set of characters everyone is used to. This is not easy. It must have a distinct design but still feel like it was always there and must be easily recognized as a cap Eszett. Arranging legibility test with system fonts like Georgia would be a nice way to check for the B problem. Speaking of Georgia: Maybe we should also try to solve this the Carter-way: The character must also work in a small copy text like this one here on Typophile. Maybe it would be a good idea to start with simple pixel grid, in which it would be easy to see if the skeleton is different enough from B and R. cuttlefish's picture Putting a bit more work into it, I came up with a very different solution for my didone Effluent (I'd really appreciate another name suggestion--I'm tapped out). The new one follows a configuration similar to what I used for Agamemnon, with the Gamma_s lig type from before shown for comparison. The new one is a bit more B-like, but not so much as to cause confuddlement. hrant's picture I think this might have been discussed before, but what about giving it a descender?* That might pull it nicely away from the "B", but hopefully not too close to looking like a lc (which would be another possible field test). The descender could either be at the left stem or the right curl. * Except in fonts where both the "J" and "Q" don't descend I guess. A relevant question here: are "J" and "Q" very low frequency in German? hrant's picture Oh, I said that 1.5 years ago. :-/ cuttlefish's picture I think J has a fairly high frequency in German. Their word for "yes" starts with J, so it's at least an important letter. I don't think I saw the Q used very much in that semester of German class that I slept through, though. dezcom's picture That looks much better, Jason! Florian Hardwig's picture Yes, we like to capitalize a lot of words. All nouns, to start with. But there are no words that start with an ‘ß’. So we would need to find German word pairs like that Here you go: [big — gross] [greeting — to dig (past tense)] [to be called (past tense) — hit/slash] [to let (past tense) — dear] [to tear — to rub] [white — woman (as in shrew)] [to pound sth. — to scatter (past tense)] [shit — pane/slice] hrant's picture Florian, awesome! More, and much faster, than I expected. Any way to get frequency numbers for those? Actually, failing that, migrating the frequency numbers from English* would be much better than nothing (since people pretty much talk about the same things no matter where you go :-). * Which I can provide, via Kucera & Francis. So who's gonna set this puppy up? :-) I'm willing to help with the "interface design" and (non-linguistic) testing. ralf h.'s picture Here is a quick test with a 9 pixel cap height: It is build in FontStruct and anyone can modify it/add Eszett variants: nina's picture Excellent idea, Ralf. I took the liberty of trying out a few variants: I didn't change your FontStruction but clone it to my own space (version with my added variants is here). I agree with your post over on typografie.info that a descender on the right hand side (as in my third variant) probably doesn't make sense from a logical point of view; still, it does help to differentiate so I figured I'd give it a shot. Emanual Dexterity's picture Tim: "First, show us your solution and then you can criticise the others." No thanks. Drawing, you know, is the first refuge of the confused. ... an uppercase long s and an uppercase s englyphed together into one? I must apologize for any l.c. German ß I made with a leading edge crossbar on the long s. Those were stupid mistakes following stupid models. And why I ever followed the crowd on roman l.c. ß that followed the f and not the fj, I have no idea. Should I ever make an uppercase ß either with a crossbar on the long S or via an uppercase F with the bar removed, crit me to within an inch of my life. And if I ever make one that looks like a l3 or J3 ligature, strike me dumber. Now, would I want to make something that tries to disappear right away, or should I try to make glyphs that are correctly clear, but that may take a generation or two of readers before the glyph disappears into the text? I await an order, that is as usual, specific to an audience, a style, a resolution and a size. Nick has gotten the closest so far as I can agree, but just once and not quite. Nick Job's picture The trouble is, many upper case glyphs look like their lowercase counterparts but many don't - it's about half and half depending on which font you're talking about. Now, who is to say whether the upper case long s is one of the characters that looks like its lowercase counterpart or not; e.g. it might actually look like an F/gamma or even a crazy J, who is to say? But, surely anyone can decide what an uppercase long s looks like and may the best man/woman 'win'. Aren't you (and Nick S) saying that the uppercase long s looks like half an inverted U and not a F/gamma? Why is that anymore right than the F/gamma approach? I'd love to say that historically the long s had nothing to do with f but it kinda did, didn't it? You can't really fault anyone for going for the uppercase F as a model for the uppercase long s too. Are you saying, first and foremost, that we need to have some consensus on what an uppercase long s looks like? If so, you are bound to get some that think that because what you're talking about doesn't really exist, then this new glyph should actually look like two regular uppercase S's ligatured. Then the next logical question is, "Did they actually need ligaturing?" I'm not sure they do, just like FI and FFL etc don't really warrant special characters. All I want is for the logic to be good. Rightly or wrongly, having good, robust logic bothers me more than whether the character looks nice. Not many posters on this thread seem to share my concerns logically. Anyone (OK, not anyone) can design a lovely a character, a lot of the proposed Long s's in this thread look great, but don't they amount to nothing more than follies if the logic that conceived them was flawed? Question 1 for me is "So what does an uppercase long s (if it actually ought to be made to live and breathe at all) really look like?" If one answers this then one might be on the way to defining the look of the actual ligature in its entirety. If you can't answer this question, maybe don't force a ligature to exist. k.l.'s picture Reading things into Mr Berlow's comment, at the risk of misreading it ... It doesn't look like Mr Berlow said that this or that uppercase form of long-s is right or wrong, but rather that there is and never was an uppercase long-s so it's a bit of an idle game. As regards the logic part ... Ralf, earlier: But all of Marks designs use the skeleton of the B with a "strange thing" going on at the bottom. [...] Tim's designs are not the ones I would favour, but they clearly solve the problem. I am not tempted at all to read GROBES. Amusingly Mr Simonson's shapes fit much nicer into uppercase letters' visual laws while Tim's, nice as they are, suffer from having four rather than the usual three horizontal elements and a 3/4 S which -- whether Mr Berlow qualified for judging by not submitting his own Eszett to the jury or not -- is a little alien. Consider Mr Simonson's versions as long-s reminder (the stem) plus a diacritic mark similar to connected semicolon, which construction has some resemblance to early "eszetts". Still I cannot help considering the uppercase Eszett as a bastard. The lowercase version already contains a letterforms that by itself does not exist any more (long-s), and any uppercase version needs to come up with an uppercase long-s which never existed and which must be unintelligent by design. The only solution is, more or less, to uppercasify the lowercase version. But this solution actually means violating the typographic rule to not use an eszett in all-caps setting, but hiding this a bit by dressing up what structurally is a lowercase letter so it looks more like an uppercase. "Uppercase Eszett" itself is logically not sound. Nick Shinn's picture ...the look of the actual ligature... Two models emerged for the "double u", one with kissing v's, one with overlapping v's. Both legitimate. There are variants based on the shape of "u" as well as "v". Look at the different design solutions that have been proffered for the Euro. It's wide open, that's why it's so exciting to take a crack at. hrant's picture > “Did they actually need ligaturing?” What is "need"? I believe that ligatures are good for you. > I cannot help considering the uppercase Eszett as a bastard. All the lc glyphs are bastards (as Cassandre duly noted). But they rule the earth now, so we better work with them. The interesting twist with the cap eszet is that -apparently- no words start with it. So its harmony with other caps seems to be more important than with the lc. (This is also makes it quite unnerving that it took so long to take it seriously.) guifa's picture hrant: I believe that ligatures are good for you. While I'm in total agreement, I could have sworn you were in general against the use of ligatures. Maybe I'm just remembering some old threads wrong. hrant's picture I've been liking them for at least four years, but maybe before that I had said something that I no longer agree with. Or maybe I had said that ligatures that are only there to make text pretty are no good. I mean text text. Mark Simonson's picture They have imaginary numbers in mathematics, indicated with an italic lowercase i. Since the long (cap) S is an imaginary character, we could do the same and write the imaginary long S as iS. Following this logic, the capital Eszett would then be written iSS. However, it would be a bit difficult not to read the i as a letter, so we could just put the dot from the i over the first S to indicate the imaginary long S. The cap Eszett would then be written SS, with a dot over the first S. cuttlefish's picture Are there any words in ANY languages that begin with "ss"? Would these languages benefit from a spelling reform to replace that digraph with eszett (and by extension Eszett)? Just throwing some more ideas against the wall to see if anyone salutes. hrant's picture Mark, that doesn't sound anything like you! :-) Jason, that's a major long-shot, but certainly the presence of a cap eszet makes it much more likely! The thing is, a lowercase eszet would probably get spliced in first. Florian Hardwig's picture Are there any words in ANY languages that begin with “ss”? Would these languages benefit from a spelling reform Don’t know of ‘Ss’, but Hungarian has a lot of words starting with ‘Sz’. According to an entry in the Decode Unicode Wiki, some Hungarians like to replace ‘sz’ with ‘ß’ in text messages – because so they can save a character. To me, that doesn’t sound very plausible, in times of T9 dictionaries. Same is said about the Swiss: SMS efficiency made them raise the ‘ß’ from the dead. Again, I’d say this mainly has to do with the built-in dictionaries: When typing ‘Grus…’, the dictionary proposes ‘Gruß’ [greeting] – which is gladly accepted. Just leetspeak. nina's picture Actually in Switzerland, among young people, the ß is even widely replaced for ss in text messages where it doesn't make sense at all from a grammatical / orthographical perspective; I assume it has less to do with T9 than with, like you said, saving a character. Stuff like "wißen" for "wissen" (to know), which has never been written like this; makes me cringe, but it does appear to be a new use for the character. nina's picture Add to that: There still aren't any words in German that begin with either ß or ss. Which is, the way I understand it, part of the reason why the ß did not previously exist as a capital letter. ralf h.'s picture Still I cannot help considering the uppercase Eszett as a bastard. ... any uppercase version needs to come up with an uppercase long-s which never existed and which must be unintelligent by design. This sort of logic is common, but I don't think it is right. Are German umlauts bastards because they are originally build from a lowercase letter (e) placed on top of a capital letter? Is an A a wrong character because the ox was turned upside down? This sort of logic, that is based on a character's history or the history of parts of the letters doesn't lead anywhere. Letters are nothing but tools and they should be judged according to this and nothing else. Capital Umlauts were created because there was a need for them. And now is the time for the capital sharp S. We just need to figure out the right shape(s) of this tool. And this design process should be based on the question of what works best for the user/reader, not on the history of Eszett (which is unclear till today anyhow). k.l.'s picture Hi Ralf, I was addressing Nick Job's post which spoke about logic. I do not understand what you mean by "this sort of logic". If you design a letter, you need some kind of logic to make sure that the letter can be identified as that. A letter must fit into the context of other letters in terms of particular design style and, more important, fit into the rest of the alphabet in terms of structure (construction) and features -- to make sure a tone [mere shape on a page] can be identified as a token [instantiation] of a type [this or that character]. Beware of people who (want to) make history without knowing it. Look at IPA monsters to see what happens if history -- repertory of signs and marks that already exist -- is left aside: "tool approach" at its best. Problem with uppercase Eszett is that either one tries to make it visually sound, then it looks like Mark Simonson's or maybe like a lowercase eszett tweaked to look more like an uppercase, or structurally correct, which option is not even available because there is no uppercase long-s. hrant's picture Florian, that's wonderful to hear. Human needs should trump modernist bureaucrats all the time! > part of the reason why the ß did not previously exist as a capital letter. So Germans never set all-caps? :-) > This sort of logic, that is based on a character’s history or > the history of parts of the letters doesn’t lead anywhere. Heartily agreed. > you need some kind of logic to make sure > that the letter can be identified as that. Yes, but historical forms are circumstantial. What matters is what's in use (and what should be in use). Historical fidelity is generally promoted by people who simply enjoy history; but users don't need their enjoyment. > Beware of people who (want to) make history without knowing it. I would say that ignorance of history isn't the problem there. The problem is simply poor craft (which does include observation however). History leads us to where we are, but it's never really with us. Syndicate content Syndicate content	http://typophile.com/node/33647?page=3	<urn:uuid:c3adcbe9-6b63-41ed-9788-d49c0e316395>	en	0.955102	0.062638
Freelance Cartooning Everything you need to know about freelance cartooning. By the MOTHER EARTH NEWS editors January/February 1970 Freelance cartooning can be a real career if you approach it with a few tips in mind. Content Tools Related Content Seriously Cool Tools Cool Tools newsletter and website: DIYers, take a look! Beautiful, Rustic Dog Fence Chemistry in the Kitchen: Creating Laundry Detergent Crafting laundry detergent saves time, money and lightens your environmental footprint. Plus it’s si... Now look, gang, don't get us wrong: We're most certainly not suggesting that half the readers of MOTHER EARTH NEWS are gonna run out and become freelance cartoonists immediately after reading this article. A few, yes. The great majority, no. We've gone pretty deeply into the how of this particular work-at-home dodge, though, for several reasons: 1. It's a fascinating field. 2. It's part of the communications/persuasion industry which plays an increasingly important part in our lives. 3. Similar to writing, commercial art and various other skills and crafts, cartooning does offer a way out of the 9-to-5 rap for a certain number of talented and determined individuals. 4. It's mainly a mail-order operation which means it neatly sidesteps race, color, creed and most other excuses we all use for putting bad trips on each other. 5. Successful freelancing — whether as plumber, cartoonist, cake baker, baby sitter, candle maker or whatever — depends on a certain lifestyle all its own. The products (skill, drawings, pastry, mere presence, decorator items, etc.) may differ but the ground rules are always the same: You're either your own man, work when, where and at what you like and successfully exchange your output for what you need and want... or you go back to pumping gas on the corner. So, even if you think you have no drawing ability and you couldn't care less about trying to sell funny pictures to magazines, come on along. You're going to learn how to get a highly specialized art — or other — education for very little money (maybe even free), you'll find a definite step-by-step drop-out-and-do-your-own-thing plan used by one successful cartoonist and Carl Kohler's section, in particular, should (a) turn you on to some immediate money-making angles if you are, or want to be, a cartoonist or (b) just generally turn you on if you're not a 'tooner but need some inspiration from a sassy, successful practitioner of an alternate lifestyle. So you wanna be a cartoonist? Great! But why? Why You Should Become a Freelance Cartoonist If you're just looking for an easy way out, this probably isn't it. Cartooning, like most other endeavors, can be brutally hard work — and, like most other endeavors, it can be deliriously wonderful play that you just happen to get paid for. Let's stop and lay down some ground rules right in front: We presently live in a society that puts a price tag on virtually everything, right? Right. And that can be a real drag, right? Right. Because you always wind up having to put in your time on a job you hate just to get the necessities of life, right? Wrong! It doesn't have to be that way. It's all in how you look at it. Remember, we said, "The society puts a price tag on virtually everything"? OK. There's no reason why you can't make that work for, rather than against, you. It's easy. First, decide what you really want to do; second, start doing it (as long as you're not putting a bad trip on someone or something else) and third, figure out some way to exchange what you do for what you want and need. If you're hung up on horses and hate office work, in other words, you'd be damn foolish to work all week as a secretary just so you could pay the rent, put food on the table and — maybe — have enough left over to ride an hour or two each weekend at some expensive stable. Yet that's exactly what an awful lot of babes do. But not my clever little wife. She loves horses so she teaches riding, trains, shows and judges horses and, incidentally, makes twice what any desk job would pay her. Rule No. 1 in successful living, then, goes something like this: Get yourself together, find out where the action is for you, go there and start making it happen. As Thoreau said, "Build your castles in the air... and then put foundations under them." So, for the sake of argument, let's say that cartooning is your thing. You're fascinated by the idea of communicating with hand-drawn pictures, you dig the ego trip of being a successful artist or cartooning just appeals to some artsy craftsy element in your nature. It doesn't matter. Don't analyse it. All you have to know is that cartooning is your thing. Fine. Now, how are you going to start? With 10 years of art school or an expensive home-study course and a fancy studio with all the trimmings? Not on your life — or, I should say, not with your life. You haven't got that much time. You're interested in beginning right here and now. And, just so you can walk away from that factory job (work) and start cartooning (play) any time you feel like it, you're gonna want to make it begin paying off just as soon as possible. How to Begin a Freelance Career Every field of endeavor, every sport, every industry, every special interest group — it seems — in the country has one or two or seven or 12 or more magazines, papers or newsletters published just for it. If the publication covers the field, it's called a trade journal. If it's put out by one company or subgroup within the field for "their own," it's called a house organ. Trade journals and house organs are what you look for whenever you want to get inside a field or a special interest group, quickly and easily. As a cartoonist, these publications should doubly interest you because a couple are going to teach you how and the others are going to buy a lot of your finished work. Forget the shysters who exaggerate the opportunities in the field while selling you an overpriced art course or a truckload of fancy equipment. Forget the dilettantes who always flutter about the edges of the action. Go right to the heart of whatever field interests you by getting your hands on current copies of the working trade journals of that field. There's no faster, easier, better way to pick up inside language, check out the economics, get filled in on the latest methods, spot developing trends and learn "who's who" in the particular establishment or power structure that interests you. When I decided to break into cartooning back in the mid-50s, Don Ulsh's New York Cartoon News and George Hartman's Information Guide were the two "bibles" that showed me the way. Through them, I learned very quickly that, while my cartooning was less than professional, there was definitely a market for the gags I was writing. So I switched to writing for other cartoonists (often found listed in those books), and used the money I earned that way to finance the improvement of my drawing. Within six months (while I was still an ignorant 16-year-old Indiana farm boy) I had had gags, drawn by other artists, published in Collier's, true and lesser markets and I was selling cartoons of my own. I had never had (still haven't) an art lesson, I owned no expensive drawing equipment and I definitely wasn't a genius. I had just used the cartooning papers as a magic carpet to get me where I wanted to go. I've since used my cartoon experience as a springboard into some nice public relations and writing jobs and I've kind of drifted away from the field. If I wanted to get back to the drawing board today (or if I was just starting out), however, my first move would be to get my name on the mailing list for a cartoon-related publication. I'd also, maybe, invest in Careers in Cartooning by Lawrence Lariar and Jack Markow's Cartoonist's and Gag Writer's Handbook. That, plus the following articles by Kohler, would give me (and should give you) enough marketing information to make it. Remember, whether you're trying to make it inside or outside the present establishment, the key to success is marketing. If you don't somehow swap what you have too much of (beans, fence posts, cartoons, ripe fruit or enthusiasm) for what you need (shoes, bananas and automobiles), you ain't gonna make it. But what about drawing. Isn't that important too? Yes, but not as important as you may think. A poorly drawn cartoon with a strong gag that hits the readers of a particular magazine right between the eyes will always sell before the beautiful rendering that isn't really relevant. This is no excuse for lousy artwork, understand, but it does explain why, contrary to what most cartoon course peddlers tell you, you don't need to go to any art school or take any course on the market to become a cartoonist. As a matter of fact, I feel very strongly that — unless you're really a lazy lout who needs to be pushed, and pushed hard, to start a gag or finish a drawing (and what are you doing in cartooning, in that case?) — you'll find most instruction in the field (and most other fields, too) vastly overpriced and largely irrelevant. You don't really want all those pre-packaged assignments, penpal letters and a $500 diploma to hang on the wall, do you? Maybe so, maybe not. As for me, I was more interested in kicking the 9-to-5 job — and that meant selling cartoons. If you're determined to squander your hard-earned loot on a cartoon or commercial — or even fine arts — course, I will give one company a left-handed recommendation: Any of the Famous Artists courses are bargains. I made the rounds, one week, with a Famous Schools salesman and I know about what everything from the salesmen's commission and district manager's override right through the triple-page ads in the glossy magazines costs the company. After all the hype, there isn't much left for art instruction. No worse than other firms in the field, you understand, but not a lot better either. Besides, there's literally tens and tens of thousands of courses from that one company (and as many, if not more, from each of the others) gathering dust on bookshelves throughout this country. A two-line classified ad in any big city paper should get you a lot of answers and at least one course for $75 — which is what I paid for mine — or less. A good course, used as a reference, can be valuable to you but it's only worth what you take out of it. The most important thing for you to do if you want to be a cartoonist, is to draw every chance you get. And don't take the lazy man's way out and only draw the things that are easy for you. You're only fooling yourself if you do. Draw, and keep on drawing — from life, from memory, from imagination. You don't need fancy drawing pencils and pads either. Ordinary note books and regular pencils (whatever number you prefer) are plenty good enough. The really important thing is the developing coordination between your hand and eye. And here's a fact that should surprise you: The best teachers in the world are all set to help you for free. That's right, the cartoonists who sell their work for the highest prices today are ready to teach you to draw. All you have to do is leaf through any magazine or newspaper that prints cartoons. If you don't have any lying around, go out and ask the neighbors for back issues... or make a trip down to the nearest waste-paper firm. Get yourself a big stack of magazines with cartoons in them. Then go through all the publications and clip out all the cartoons you find. Keep it up until you've got drawings by every artist whose work you can get your hands on. These cartoonists are the best teachers in the world. Why? Because these are the guys who are selling their work, right now, today. Forget all the two-bit teachers who never sold a drawing in their life. Forget all the dated artwork in the cartoon courses. Study what the selling artists are doing. They're the ones who really know what cartooning is all about. Notice how they place their characters. See how they vary the lines in their drawings. Study their methods of shading. Compare the different ways they draw people. Look at the way they sketch the backgrounds. Soak up every detail of every drawing you can get into your file. Then try to draw that way yourself. Use every trick you can steal to make your drawings sparkle just like the professionals. Gradually, you'll pick up one idea from one artist, something else from a second and another wrinkle from a third. Pretty soon, you'll be cranking out clean cartoons in a style all your own. If you don't think you can learn about drawing this way, let me tell you something: The pros do this all the time. It's the way it's done. So go to it. Some skills, such as learning to draw perspective, you'll probably have to learn from regular art books because it is hard to acquire such knowledge merely by looking at finished art work. In the main, however, you will find that the best cartoon instruction in the world is only as far away as the nearest printed cartoon. Necessary Tools for Cartooning As for supplies needed to begin cartooning, here again you can forget the sharpsters who want to sell you everything from hand-engraved sketch pads to chromed drawing tables. Essential, of course, is a pencil. Ordinary, everyday pencils are plenty good enough for a start. When you think you need something better, you will probably want a few real drawing pencils since you can specify their lead hardness much more exactly. They're graded from 7H (a very hard lead that makes a light line) through F (medium) to 7B (the softest, blackest lead). I usually wind up using a 2H and 4H most of the time. You may find other grades more suitable to your touch. Paper is another primary must. Professional cartoonists use regular typing paper for the most part and there is no reason for you to buy anything any more expensive. For rough drawing and just doodling, use a cheap 16 pound paper. Inked cartoons that are submitted to editors should be done on a good grade of 20 or 24 pound, 25 percent rag content paper. Only a few artists who regularly do complicated cartoons with tints and washes (colored or black ink mixed with water and used like water colors on a finished drawing) for the top-paying markets (Esquire, Playboy, etc.) ever use expensive drawing papers or illustration boards... and, then, only after submitting a rough idea on typing paper, usually. Another essential tool (at least for me) is a good eraser. Again, you can start with pencil erasers. But sooner or later you'll want a good "Artgum"and a kneaded rubber eraser. Cartoons used to always be done in ink, but that is changing rapidly now and it's not at all uncommon for a drawing done in black pencil and spray-fixed to be bought and reproduced in a middle or minor (or even major) magazine. Still, you should learn to handle ink, because you will be called on to produce an "inker" once in a while. As a matter of fact, while you're starting you'll make a much better impression on editors if you submit all your cartoons in ink. Later, when you're "in" with a few magazines, you can start sending in penciled roughs (rough drawings) or even typers (typed gags for an editor to read so that you only have to draw the particular cartoons he wants to buy). At any rate, black is the only color ink you'll need and most artists seem to prefer Higgins brand. Some artists use only brushes, other like pens and still others prefer to use a combination of the two for inking. You'll just have to find what is best for you. I've heard of cartoonists using brushes from No. 00 to No. 7. A few popular pen points are Esterbrook 356 and 358 and Gillot's 290, 303 and 404. Gaining in favor are some of the new mechanical pens, particularly the Rapidograph, which are made in various sizes. A drawing board is pretty much standard equipment. Here again, you can save a lot of money by using a standard bread board or a piece of plywood for a starter. Prop it up on a table and you're in business. Later, when you have the loot rolling in, you can buy a regular drawing table (there's some great bargains in used tables floating around) or make one from a flush door. Fancy light boards (which make tracing finished cartoons from a penciled rough much easier) are expensive so I made my first one from an old window pane and some scrap lumber. A mimeograph stencil light board also works well for less bread. A ruler, some paper clips, a few thumbtacks and a small piece of cloth for a pen wiper come in handy. For correcting ink mistakes, some opaque white is useful. Your local stationer's store probably has "Showcard" or "poster" white. As you progress you can pick up all kinds of stuff such as paste, T squares, a compass, triangles, blotting paper, colored ink, etc. but paper, pencil, black ink, ruler, drawing surface and eraser are all you really need to start. Remember, it's the finished cartoon you get paid for, not the equipment you used while drawing it. Cartoon Brainstorming Now that you're all set to draw, where will the ideas come from? Well, you can use one or more gag writers who will mail typed cartoon ideas to you. You then return the ones you don't like and draw up the others. When you sell one of the finished cartoons, you pay the gag writer 25 percent of the price you received for the drawing. Let's save the gag writers for your first dry spell. Here's how you'll think up your own gags: Start a morgue. All cartoonists have one and it's not as gruesome as it sounds. An artist's morgue is just a collection of pictures, cartoons, funny remarks, jokes, sketches and a hundred other things. A cartoonist generally keeps two morgues: One of cartoons and drawings to refer to whenever he needs help while drawing and a separate collection of jokes, gags, etc. to primp the pump when he's writing gags. Organize your morgues any way you like: in old shoe boxes, cardboard cartons, filing cabinets, albums, notebooks or whatever. But do use a system so you can find what you want when you want it. Add new material constantly. Your morgue is your most valuable tool. Whenever you need fresh material, you'll start digging in the morgue and letting your imagination wander as you filter various bits of material through your brain. Pretty soon you'll come up with a combination you think is funny. You'll even begin to surprise yourself by suddenly thinking of a situation entirely different from the original idea you used to prime your creative process. This is just a variation on the way most writers work and the magic word is cram. Cram yourself full of life. Use it all as your gag writer. Watch TV (if you can stomach it), listen to the radio, go to the movies, read, read, read and keep your eyes open. Soak up every impression you can absorb. Then, when you sit down to shape up some usuable gags, you will never have any trouble pulling ideas out of the air. Some of your best gems will pop out of your subconscious when you least expect it: While you're reading a good book or carrying out the ashes or just as you drift off to sleep. Once you train your mind to think up humorous ideas, you'll turn out material faster than you can use it. Selling Your Work Carl Kohler's excellent pieces which follow this diatribe are really going to open your eyes to the marketing possibilities in cartooning. If you think you can only sell single panel gag cartoons to magazines, in other words, you're going to have your mind pleasantly stretched. Carl's underlying philosophy should prove quite valuable to anyone trying to make it outside the system with anything. Roughly translated, he's saying, "Life is just exactly what you make it." Although I kinda started at the top and worked down (my gags were published in slick, national magazines first, I next began selling the middle markets and wound up doing local stuff last of all) most beginning cartoonists do best if they concentrate on digging the gold in their own backyard. Every top cartoonist in the country (the world, it seems) is trying to crack Playboy, for instance, but you are probably the only artist knocking on the door of your hometown newspaper. Prepare a sample kit of your very best work. Make it neat and as attractive as you can. Make two or more sample kits, and you'll have one to show and others to leave with interested prospects. Now visit local printers and stress the fast, customized nature of your work. There's a blue million "mat" and clip-art services but there's no way for them to customize their art the way you'll be able to. Stop in at the local newspaper with some editorial or feature cartoons slanted especially for your town. Newspapers have access to more syndicated art work than they can use but most editors are always interested in something with a local flavor. Offer to do an editorial cartoon or a sports feature about local athletes on a regular basis, of course. Maybe the paper is ripe for a feature reporting upcoming community projects. If you like to do caricatures or portraits, you might work up a regular weekly panel featuring an outstanding citizen: The mayor, industrail leaders, local celebrities. Merchants can always use good eye-catching cartoons in their newspaper ads, posters, store windows, hand bills and all the stuff they give away such as blotters, mailing pieces, etc. You just have to be enough of a go-getter to sell them on using your stuff. Do you know the comic strip, Tumbleweeds? It's drawn by a fellow named Tom Ryan. Tom lives in Muncie, Indiana and I've known him a long time. When he was a beginning cartoonist (and that was just a few years ago) he sold one newspaper in Muncie the idea of using a little cartoon character, Benny Beans. This little guy was featured in the paper all the time: When the United Fund was having a drive, Benny Beans would be shown holding a poster or a collection can. During the yearly Paint Up-Fix Up-Clean Up campaign, Benny Beans would be seen sweeping the streets with a broom and on and on and on. Tom was too clever to stop with that. He sold a local hardware store the idea of having another cartoon character, Jiffy Jackson, in all their ads. And, eventually, Tom landed a syndicate for Tumbleweeds and graduated into the "Big Time," but his local cartoon work helped keep his family eating until he finally made it. You might think that Tom had the cartoon business around Muncie all sewed up when he was doing the local work. Not so! A number of sign painters were doing the usual cartoons on trucks, billboards, buildings, etc. Another cartoonist occasionally contributed an editorial drawing for a second paper in town; I did some cartoons for WLBC-TV in Muncie; and a housewife successfully launched herself into a seasonal business decorating store windows with water color cartoons of Santa Claus and other Christmas scenes. I understand she still has a long list of regular customers for this service and she earns several hundred dollars every December this way. We'll go into the working methods of this idea in more detail in a later issue if anyone is interested, but about all it involves is chalking the basic layout on the outside of the plate glass windows of a store and then going inside and doing the finish art work in show card colors. This is a little tricky because you're working backward, but, if you do the finish art on the outside of the window, rain and small boys will soon mess it up. One of the best ways to sell your work in the beginning is to offer to take your pay out in trade from the merchants you do work for. They like the idea and will often use your stuff this way when they won't pay for it in cash. George Hartman, publisher of Cartoon World, says he always had 1,000 cans in his pantry throughout the depression just because he took goods in trade in return for printing a small town "shopper"on a mimeograph machine. We'll give you a more complete report on that idea later, too. Approach the chairmen of various clubs and offer to dress up their programs and announcements when they are planning special events. Maybe you can land a job designing a calender showing the year's important meetings for a club or lodge. Richard Riley, writing in the August, 1969 Cartoon World says: "Our town has an annual rodeo each spring and since I do a great deal of rodeo-type cartoons I talked to the program manager of the Jaycees. After they had their dummy made up, they gave it to me and I did cartoons in the white spaces. The Jaycees told their customers about me as they sold the ads and I not only picked up a nice check from the Jaycees, but from the ads too. Also, my cartoon book, Lit' Wrangler, will be sold at the rodeo... and I got ten free tickets, too!" Get a big pad of newsprint or drawing paper and teach yourself to give interesting chalk talks. A size of 2 by 3 feet is good for this and you'll find charcoal crayons handy to work with. One subject you can use is "How cartoonists think up gags and make their drawings." Clubs and other groups will use you as entertainment for 10 to 20 dollars a throw with, usually, a meal for good measure. A lot of people will pay very good money for a custom mural done on play room or den walls. These are generally colorful scenes done in opaque water colors and varnished over when well dried. Better practice this one first! Banks and restaurants also go for these. A well drawn replica of a new home will sell to the proud home owner. Merchants will pay for good drawings of their stores. They hang em on the walls and use 'em on letterheads and in advertising. Most factories print a small paper or magazine for employees. Offer to do art work or a cartoon for them. Teach yourself to do a nice job of lettering and learn to use transfer lettering. You'll find a lot more jobs coming your way. Drop in to the local TV station with a portfolio. Local stations can always use locally-drawn "spots." Some cartoonists have even landed a cartoon TV program of their own. Drawing Cartoons for Magazines OK. We started telling you about magazine cartooning so it's about time we got back to the main subject. There are thousands and thousands of specialized publications printed in this country. You know about Life and Newsweek and other national magazines... but have you ever heard of Boot and Shoe Recorder? Or Pure Milk News? Or Printing Impressions? Probably not, but all three use cartoons. Go to the local library and look through the directories of business and trade magazines. One is Gebbie's and another is published by N.W. Ayres and Sons. They'll open your eyes and give you enough names and addresses to keep you busy for a long, long time. But you'll be submitting your work a little blindly if you only use such directories. As I mentioned earlier, subscribe to the cartoonists' tip sheets. They'll keep you advised of buying action in the middle and minor magazines. So will Writer's Digest and Author and Journalist. They all list cartoon markets and, if you submit to the magazines listed, you should gradually build up a list of editors that will regularly buy your work, assuming it is of professional quality. These little magazines are actually pretty easy to work with and, if your gag sense is sharp and you can slant ideas to the readers of a particular publication, your art work can actually be a little rough. One word of caution: Stick to the fields you know. Because I lived on a farm when I was doing my heavy cartoon work, I drew mostly farm and dairy cartoons and had no trouble selling them to the smaller farm publications. I was also hung up on aviation and developed a secondary market around that interest. No matter what magazine you decide to submit to, give the editor what he wants for his readers, not what you want them to have. This is called slanting your work. You send farm cartoons to farm magazines, girly cartoons to girly publications and supermarket cartoons to magazines for supermarket managers. If you run across a new market and you don't know exactly what kind of cartoons it uses, get a copy of the magazine and study it. If you can't find a copy, write the editor, tell him you're a cartoonist, offer your services and ask for samples of his publication. If he's interested, he'll send you a few copies. If he's not interested, it's better to find out right in front. Most editors are honest and hard working, but you'll find a few that won't return drawings or who use your stuff and never pay for it. Forget them. They don't last very long, anyway. There are more good markets than you can cover. Concentrate on the good ones. Submitting Cartoons to Magazines After you've drawn up a good batch of 10 or 12 cartoons (or five or six for a very specialized market), address a 9-by-12-inch manila envelope to yourself and a 9 1/2-by-12 1/2 inch envelope to the editor. Stamp both envelopes with sufficient postage, put the cartoons into the smaller one and put it into the big envelope. A cardboard stiffener is also a good idea. Seal the large envelope and mail. It's now becoming increasingly popular to make a very light fold across the center of the batch of drawings and use half-size envelopes. They seem to stand up a lot better in the mail. You can seal cartoons, according to the post office regulations, and send them third class as long as you don't include a written note. If your local post office gives you a hard time on this, write to the Postmaster General in Washington, D.C. Always include return postage and a return address on the envelope in your submission. Sooner or later, you'll have to set up some kind of system so you can keep a record of the drawings you have in the mail, the ones that have already been to a particular editor, and the ones that haven't. You'll want to put your name and address on the back of each cartoon too. Editors sometimes get several batches mixed up together and this will help to keep everything straight. Payment for a Beginner's Work The usual rule for a beginning cartoonist is "Get as much as you can, but get the job!" As you start doing work for local business men and newspapers, you'll find, that many of them can't — or won't — pay a lot for the work they use. Don't be discouraged. The experience acquired on these first jobs is worth a great deal to you. As you improve your work, you'll gradually slide up from, maybe, 5 dollars a drawing to 15 to 50 dollars or more. Some of the trade journals even pay more than 100 dollars to their regular contributors. A good artist who keeps at least 10 batches of cartoons in the mail at all times should average 100 to 200 dollars a week. A part-timer with only a batch or two out at any one time can generally pick up 10 to 20 dollars of extra spending money each week. That's not great, but cartooning worked that way can be looked upon as a hobby that pays its way. I've seen a lot of times when that 10 dollars came in very, very handy. Naturally, since you want to be a cartoonist, you're going to make every last drawing your very best, whether it's a paid-for-in-advance 100 dollar cartoon or a 5 dollar spot. Cartooning is no bed of roses but it can be a very fun way of making a living and — if you make it to the top with a syndicated strip of your own or as a regular artist for, say, Playboy, you'll be in the big money, indeed. Post a new comment 9/3/2007 9:33:41 PM i was sitting helpless with my cartoon works in hand and lots of ideas in mind. now i am charged up and cant wait to mail my cartoons and start earning. please do help me. where and when should i send my cartoons ? visit my blogs , www.arindamart.blogspot.com and www.aritoons.blogspot.com i need it immediately and need your help. First Name: * Last Name: * Address: * City: * State/Province: * Zip/Postal Code:* (* indicates a required item) Canadian Subscribers - Click Here Non US and Canadian Subscribers - Click Here Lighten the Strain on the Earth and Your Budget	http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/freelance-cartooning-zmaz70jfzglo.aspx	<urn:uuid:e8f4a739-18c0-4aa0-ada4-174eceead136>	en	0.959884	0.108505
Martin Vander Weyer en The bottom line <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">The Wal-Mart Effect: how an out-of-town superstore became a superpower Charles Fi</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>Salmon used to be a luxury for the average American family, but nowadays it is a weekly staple - because Wal-Mart sells fillets of it, conveniently "pin-bone-out", for as little as $4.84 (£2.66) a pound. The fish are farmed by the millions in the fjords of southern Chile, processed in low-wage factories there, and freighted unfrozen to arrive pink and gleaming, within 48 hours of being killed, on the counters of thousands of Wal-Mart superstores across the US. The price per pound, Charles Fishman points out in this meticulously researched and richly anecdotal book, is less than the postage it would cost you to mail the fish back to Chile.</p> <p>The impact of that price on American grocery bills and eating habits, on the economy of Chile and on the ecology of a distant corner of the Pacific polluted by industrial quantities of fish food and faeces, is what Fishman calls the "Wal-Mart effect". It is, in his view, neither wholly bad nor wholly good - but it is very, very big. Wal-Mart is a force in America's economic life to a far more significant degree than its nearest British equivalent, Tesco, over here. The Arkansas-based chain, founded by Sam Walton in 1962, is not simply the biggest private-sector em-ployer and the biggest holder of retail market share. Its low-price strategy, so pervasive that other stores follow suit even when they are not direct competitors, plays a principal role in holding down US inflation; its relentless demand for low prices from suppliers has been a major driver in the export of US manufacturing jobs to China and elsewhere.</p> <p>But it is a relief to find that Fishman - an editor at <em>Fast Company</em> magazine - is not just another journalist on a mission to expose Wal-Mart as a monstrous conspiracy against the little guy, as the <em>Wall Street Journal</em> writer Bob Ortega tried earnestly to do in <em>In Sam We Trust</em> (1998). Fishman is clearly troubled by Wal-Mart, but he exercises an open mind. He recites the litany of cases against Wal-Mart for using and abusing illegal immigrant labour, and for sourcing goods from cruel third-world factories, but he acknowledges that the company now has a clear code of conduct for suppliers and a team of inspectors (albeit a relatively small one) trying to make it stick. He repeats accusations that Wal-Mart is excessively secretive and that its employees and suppliers speak to the press at their peril, but he accepts that there would be no profit for the company in giving away valuable commercial data. </p> <p>He reminds us that other supermarkets and vast numbers of downtown groceries have gone to the wall because of the arrival of Wal-Mart's soulless giant sheds. But he observes that Wal-Mart is not simply a predator. It does not just lower its prices until the competition has been destroyed, then raise them again: it keeps them low, as its slogan says, "always". And that is why even customers who declare themselves in surveys to be "conflicted" - actively disliking Wal-Mart for its impact on communities and jobs - still shop there more than once a week, spending almost as much as those who declare themselves to be Wal-Mart's "champions".</p> <p>In effect, Fishman concludes, Wal-Mart does nothing more sinister than sell a $3 item of merchandise for $2.97. The frugality and focus that have enabled it to do this consistently for 44 years are largely to be admired, even when they extend to forcing suppliers to install toll-free phone lines so that Wal-Mart does not have to bear the cost of calling for deliveries. Sam Walton himself, a bird-hunting backwoodsman who drove a dog-chewed pick-up long after he became a billionaire, was an authentic American hero of capitalism.</p> <p>Yet Wal-Mart today is no longer the company that Walton bequeathed when he died in 1992. It has multiplied in scale and reach at home and abroad (it owns Asda here), acquiring unprecedented market power - and this angers unions, environmentalists and journalists. But its managers do not have a secret plan to rule the world; they just sell as much cheap stuff as they can. If there is anything sinister in that, it is the hypnotic effect it has on American shoppers. They happily bought Wal-Mart's $2.79 gallon jars of pickled cucumbers even though they could not possibly eat them all - until the manufacturer went bust trying to supply them. When the price of underpants was slashed, they bought astonishing quantities and stockpiled them.</p> <p>In an era of rampant over-consumption, don't blame Wal-Mart for the "Wal-Mart effect": blame its customers, especially the "conflicted" ones.</p> <p><em>Martin Vander Weyer is the author of </em>Falling Eagle: the decline of Barclays Bank<em> (Weidenfeld & Nicolson)</em></p> <p></p> </div></div></div> Mon, 22 May 2006 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 153305 at A bit rich <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Top Man: how Philip Green built his high street empire Stewart Lansley and Andy Forrester Auru</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>One morning last summer, the chief executive of Marks & Spencer, Stuart Rose, opened his car door at the entrance to his Baker Street office to find Philip Green steaming towards him. Green claimed he was just passing, but onlookers formed the impression that the stockily built, permatanned, chain-smoking entrepreneur had been waiting nearby, in his chauffeured Mercedes with blacked-out windows, for Rose to arrive.</p> <p>Green started to drag the M&S boss out of the car by his lapels, shouting, "I want a fucking word with you." During the 20-minute altercation that followed, he rang his wife, Tina, in Monaco and handed the phone to Rose so that Tina could call him (so Rose told colleagues) "the lowest form of life". Afterwards, Green dismissed the incident as a bit of fun: "If I'd been serious, he'd have gone through the window."</p> <p>It sounds more like a scene from <em>The Sopranos</em> than the sort of tactic normally deployed in a takeover approach to a major public company. In fact, that approach was in the process of being rebuffed - which was why Green was so cross - but playing by his own rules had already brought him ownership of two major high street retailers, Bhs and the Arcadia Group (which includes Topshop and Miss Selfridge), and the fastest £4bn fortune ever made in Britain.</p> <p>Green is a one-off, and the City's wariness of his short temper and foul mouth is probably one reason why he has made such an enormous pile: unwilling to observe the courtesies that might allow him to take risks with other people's money by raising it through the stock market, he has taken enormous risks with his own. "He puts his balls on the table every time," according to one admiring friend, the restaurateur Marco Pierre White. The most recent result is that he has been able to pay Tina and himself a dividend from Arcadia of £1.2bn.</p> <p>That does not make him lovable, and neither does the portrait painted by Stewart Lansley and Andy Forrester in this meticulous but rather unsparkling account of Green's rise from West End rag trader in the late 1970s to the Monaco-residing business superstar he is today. He throws amazing parties, but not everyone would want to mix in his crowd, which includes Alex Ferguson, Michael Winner, Bruce Willis and "the Grand Prix set". He has a sense of humour, but not a subtle one - he likes, for example, to apply "the Kalashnikov test" to Oxford Street shops, which means: "You could walk in with a machine-gun, fire off a whole clip of ammunition and you wouldn't hit a customer." He rewards his staff handsomely when they meet his targets, but shouts obscenities at them when they do not. His dealings with the press have often been catastrophic, most notably when the <em>Guardian</em> recorded him ranting about its financial editor, Paul Murphy: "He can't read fucking English. Mind you, he is a fucking Irishman." Green finished up issuing an apology to the entire Irish community for that one.</p> <p>He does not apologise for many things but he does give to good causes, often making show-stoppingly large bids at charity auctions. However, "judged by the standards of some of the super-rich", write Lansley and Forrester in a concluding chapter which suggests that close study has not endeared their subject to them, "he is not especially generous".</p> <p>Maybe not, but how he spends his fortune is his own affair. The more interesting question is how Green made it: whether he is an entrepreneurial genius or just a lucky gambler. Some of his early ventures hit the rocks, and his diffi- cult relations with the City and the media date back 15 years to the time of his involvement in a company called Amber Day, when <em>Private Eye</em> tried to blacken his name by alleging connections with, among others, the disgraced financier Roger Levitt. Nevertheless, Green re-tained the loyalty of some powerful backers and went on to win the admiration of his retailing peers - even Stuart Rose. No one has ever accused Green of being a style guru or a sensitive man-manager, but he is a lot more than just a takeover shark: he lives and breathes the much-repeated maxim that retail is detail.</p> <p>As Sir David Sieff, the former board director of Marks & Spencer, put it: "He know's what's selling, what customers want, when to buy, how much to pay and what everybody else is paying for it." His ruthless reshaping of Arcadia and Bhs is one of the smartest bits of work in the British business scene in the past decade - and the profits from it have bought him everything except serenity.</p> <p><em>Martin Vander Weyer is the author of </em>Falling Eagle: the decline of Barclays Bank<em> (Weidenfeld & Nicolson)</em></p> </div></div></div> Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 152211 at Can free trade be fair trade? <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Fair trade special - It's unfair when poor countries can't sell their goods here. It's also unfair t</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>Free and fair are words that often go together, like spick and span or Marks & Spencer. Free and fair elections, for example, are events devoutly to be wished for everywhere from Baghdad to your local town hall. But what of free trade and fair trade? Do they go hand in hand, or is one the enemy of the other?</p> <p>The loose alliance of anti-globalisation protesters and fair-trade campaigners who subscribe to the view - expressed on a banner displayed during the Seattle protests - that capitalism should be replaced by "something nicer", clearly takes the latter view. To them, free trade is a conspiracy of the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor, with the World Trade Organisation - the Geneva-based, 148-member Tower of Babel that sets the rules - doing the dirty work on behalf of Washington and its corporate cronies. In the free traders' dark heart, the protesters claim, is a plot to steal the developing world's natural resources, wreck its environment and treat its workers like slaves while ensuring that Halliburton gets the infrastructure contracts, McDonald's gets the fast-food franchises and the World Bank gets its loans back.</p> <p>By contrast, a line of reputable laissez-faire thinkers from Adam Smith to the <em>Financial Times</em>'s Martin Wolf take the former view: that international trade without the interference of tariffs, subsidies, price controls and pork-barrel politics is by far the most efficient way of matching global supply to demand while making all the participants more prosperous - and that the best indicator of fairness in a broad sense is rising prosperity, the absence of which makes all the benefits of a just and well-ordered society so much harder to obtain. Crucial to this side of the argument is the idea that, as John Kay put it in his even-handed analysis <em>The Truth About Markets</em> (2003): "We who live in rich states are not rich because those who live in poor states are poor" - or P J O'Rourke, rather less even-handedly in <em>Eat the Rich</em> (1998): "Economics is not zero-sum. If you eat too many slices of pizza, I don't have to eat the box."</p> <p>You might expect George W Bush to subscribe to the right-wing O'Rourke's school, even if you suspect that he understands diddly-squat about economics.</p> <p>Here is what he said shortly after he became president in 2001: "Open trade is not just an economic opportunity, it is a moral imperative." But what did he do in March 2002 to drum up Republican support in "rust-belt" states for the midterm congressional elections? He whacked a 30 per cent tariff on steel imports, causing extreme pain to exporters in parts of the world with which the US was supposed to be friendly, including Britain, Japan, South Korea and Vladimir Putin's Russia. When Russia responded in kind by banning imports of US poultry, jeopardising jobs in 38 states, Bush stuck to his guns, because the steel votes outnumbered the chicken votes. And when pressure from the WTO and other factors - including the need for alliance-building for "the war on terror" - made it expedient to take the steel tariff off again, he declared the whole episode a victory against anti-competitive practices in world trade.</p> <p>Therein lies the problem in trying to judge whether free trade is fair. Like socialism, it has hardly ever been put into practice wholeheartedly; purists have to look back to Hong Kong in the 1960s for an example.</p> <p>Politicians pay lip-service to the social and economic benefits of open markets and are always ready to lecture other countries about it. But they invariably back away as soon as jobs and votes are threatened at home.</p> <p>And when it comes to agriculture (with the exception of subsidy-free New Zealand), politicians do not even bother to pay lip-service. In 2000, every cow in the European Union received the equivalent of $913 in subsidy, while every sub-Saharan African received $8 in EU aid. Two-fifths of the entire EU budget goes on subsidising farmers and putting food producers everywhere else in the world at an unfair disadvantage - except possibly American farmers, who are themselves comfortably protected by a $180bn subsidy deal also brought in by George W Bush in 2002.</p> <p>Yet we must also be fair to politicians: sometimes they must find the morality of free and fair trade genuinely confusing. Take the story of the humble banana, staple product of several of Britain's former Caribbean dependencies and of Latin America's so-called "banana republics", such as Ecuador, which fall within America's sphere of influence. For many years, Caribbean producers enjoyed privileged access to EU markets, while Latin American "dollar bananas" were subject to hefty tariffs and quotas. But small traditional farmers in the Windward Islands tended to produce small, expensive fruits, while big, efficient operations in Ecuador produced big, cheap ones. The Latin producers already had a large slice of the European market (Germans like their bananas big) but wanted more, and argued with some justification that they were being blatantly discriminated against.</p> <p>The WTO and the Clinton administration agreed with them - and the US threatened punitive tariffs on a list of luxury goods, including Scottish cashmere knitwear and "tartan" shortbread, unless the EU moved swiftly to remove the barrier. An open- and-shut case, you might think, but there were other factors muddying the water - not least that Carl H Lindner, the tycoon behind the Chiquita company of Cincinnati which controls most of the Latin American banana trade, happened to be one on Bill Clinton's major campaign contributors.</p> <p>If you were a trade minister, would you think it fairer to stick up for old-fashioned Commonwealth preference (it was, after all, we colonialists who converted these island economies to banana production in the first place) or for Ecuadorian farmers who had for so long been denied equal market access? The outcome so far has been a long foot-dragging exercise, in which the EU has provided aid to convert Caribbean producers to other crops but dollar bananas are still subject to higher duties; yet another "trade war" looms as a result.</p> <p>Or take another issue that stirs strong emotions: the exploitation of labour in poor countries - very often women and children - to produce cheap goods for export to rich countries. Martin Wolf tackles this one in <em>Why Globalisation Works</em> (2004), using the example of Bangladeshi women in the clothing industry. Is it morally wrong of us to buy shirts made in vile factories paying pittance wages?</p> <p>No, it isn't, Wolf argues: before these factories came along to meet western demand, tradition forbade women from such work; now they have "a measure of autonomy" and their wages make it possible for a higher proportion of family incomes to be spent on education, health and nutrition. To western eyes their conditions look dreadful, but compared to the alternatives - dependency as a wife or despised daughter, prostitution, farm labour, begging - the factories offer "enormous gains". Taking a stance against this kind of trade development, he says, is "mere tokenism. To be upset over poverty is entirely justifiable; to block a route out if it, in response, is not."</p> <p>In the end, most economists tend to agree with Wolf that developing countries gain more in terms of social progress and eradication of poverty when they engage more openly in international trade, while countries that do not do so - North Korea springs to mind - get left behind. Protectionism and closed borders encourage corruption, inefficiency and lack of opportunity; trade and inward investment encourage technology transfer, rising standards and rising aspirations.</p> <p>For sure, there are bad foreign-owned factories in Dhaka and Jakarta, and rapacious middlemen in the Kenyan coffee trade; for sure also, western governments have been shamelessly hypocritical in protecting their own markets, and the WTO has yet to prove itself a true friend to the poor. But in principle, free trade and fair trade can go hand in hand, and offer the best chance of a slice of the pizza of prosperity.</p> </div></div></div> Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 150052 at Viagra for the economy <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">2005: Self-esteem - Aromatherapy, life gurus, shiatsu: self-esteem will be even bigger business in t</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>''Always have at least one treat to look forward to. Ideally you should have one mini-treat each day, a slightly bigger one every week and a bumper one each year. People with low self-esteem rarely treat themselves enough."</p> <p>So writes Gael Lindenfield, "the UK's number-one confidence expert", in the 51st of the 365 day-by-day tips that make up her bestselling <em>Self-Esteem Bible</em>. Contained in this nugget of advice is the key to a whole new way of looking at the British economy.</p> <p>Not many people realise this (not even the British Retail Consortium, whose spokeswoman had never heard of the idea until I put it to her), but self-esteem is one of Britain's fastest-growing industries, worth at least £15bn a year and possibly as much as £30bn, compared with £8bn for the whole of what remains of British agriculture.</p> <p>Products, therapies, lifestyle advisers, magazines, books and television programmes aimed at boosting self-esteem and "well-being" have become big business in themselves, not least because boosting self-esteem is now heralded as a catalyst for improved productivity in every other business sector. People with high self-esteem, it is said, are more likely to enjoy their jobs, accept challenging targets, resist stress and cope with negative events, so selling self-esteem is more than just a good wheeze for those who claim to be able to package and sell it. It is like prescribing Viagra for the whole of Britain's productive economy.</p> <p>The social theorist we have to thank for this perception is Andy Westwood of the Work Foundation, whose recently published paper <em>Me, Myself and Work</em> (sponsored, significantly, by the Cosmetic Toiletry and Perfumery Association) sets out to examine why self-esteem is so important in our working lives today. In doing so, he provides some startling statistics. A survey of <em>Yellow Pages</em> directories since 1992 indicates a widespread decline in traditional shops and trades, but a 5,000 per cent increase in the number of aromatherapists. Roughly six million people in Britain pay a subscription to a private health club (though how often they visit them is another matter) and one British woman in five has attended a Weight Watchers class.</p> <p>We can all confirm these trends by observation: in Helmsley, my home town in Yorkshire, we have no dispensing chemist but we do have an alternative therapies clinic offering reflexology and shiatsu; six miles away in Kirkbymoorside, the last draper's shop has just closed, to be converted into a fitness centre.</p> <p>Down south, a City acquaintance tells me it is fashionable to spend your bonus on cosmetic dentistry. Michael Warshaw, chairman of the luxury bath and body products maker Molton Brown, told me his business is about "solutions to contemporary lifestyle challenges . . . People want to be cocooned."</p> <p>In all walks of life, it is OK to be "needy" (meaning self-obsessed, rather than poor) and to explore New Age answers to those needs: Tony and Cherie Blair led the way in 2001 when, according to the <em>Times</em>, they smeared their naked bodies with mud and papaya before primal screaming in a Mexican temple.</p> <p>Hold that thought, and let us consider whether this really amounts to an industry or a significant economic trend. Does it offer a smart stock-market play, in which investors should search for shares with a promising ratio of price to self-esteem? Or is it merely a passing fad based on what Frank Furedi, professor of sociology at the University of Kent, has called "the cultural myth of our times" - the idea that the pressures of modern life have made individuals more needful of reassurance about themselves?</p> <p>Investors certainly don't seem to have cottoned on. Nick Bubb of Evolution Securities, the stock market's leading retail-sector analyst, told me that it has never occurred to him to monitor competition between high street giants in terms of their appeal to self-esteem: if Hennes and Mauritz of Sweden is about to take over Marks & Spencer's leadership position, it is because the Swedes offer better clothes and brighter shops rather than deeper appeal to vulnerable psyches. Boots, he points out, made a strategic move into "well-being services" not long ago that turned out a complete failure. But Bubb also let slip that he had just enjoyed an expensive holiday in India, which included an experience of Vedic massage: all but the most unreconstructed of us, it seems, have acquired the appetite for treats and treatments which Gael Lindenfield prescribes.</p> <p>Another investment expert, who should perhaps remain nameless, put all this in a clearer perspective for me. Yes, she said, the middle classes have more disposable income these days and everyone likes to pamper themselves occasionally; and yes, since you've asked, health clubs have been a hot investment for the reason that they tend to make oodles of money. But retailers and services seeking to hitch their brands to the "self-esteem" bandwagon are in danger of overegging it.</p> <p>"Suddenly, everything has to be an experience," she groans. "If you go to Space.NK in Notting Hill for a leg wax you just want it quick and pain-less, but you have to go through a whole ritual of fluffy bathrobes and scented candles. You go to an Aveda salon for a haircut and they insist you have a head massage first, with some 19-year-old idiot asking which oil you prefer, 'relax' or 'energise'. It just makes me want to slap them."</p> <p>Aveda, by the way, makes a big splash about protecting the planet, a theme that plays well with customers who want to feel better about themselves. On that basis, you might think Anita Roddick's Body Shop would be ripe for a self-esteem-fuelled revival - but my anonymous investment expert-cum-shopper tells me the brand is now too mainstream to catch the wave; the newcomer to watch in the "natural cosmetics lifestyle brand" stakes is Lush, maker of Buffy the Backside Slayer Body Butter - which is definitely on my Christmas present list. But back to the serious arguments.</p> <p>Clearly there is something going on in consumer markets, and it might be a response to a national epidemic of low self-esteem. Or it may be something much simpler: people have more money and time to spare for luxuries, and can overcome the guilt associated with luxuries by being persuaded that it helps address an inadequacy they did not realise was there in the first place.</p> <p>A recent research exercise by Bridgepoint, the private equity firm, points out that while personal spending on food and clothing has remained relatively stable since 1978, spending on "leisure services" has more than tripled, partly because consumers no longer see any point in saving. As to how that leisure spend is allocated, focus groups say they are less interested in lifestyle brands and more interested in bargains (on eBay, for example) or treats: but the treat they value most is nothing more complicated than a bit of peace and quiet in the midst of their increasingly busy lives.</p> <p>So I incline to the view that, as a framework for studying consumer behaviour, the self-esteem theory contains quite a high proportion of hot air and marketing hype. But Westwood disagrees; he goes as far as to argue that the self-esteem "industry" deserves government support because it offers a unique form of insurance against insecurity about jobs, money and personal circumstances, helping us collectively to maintain our competitive edge in a changing world.</p> <p>A cynic might respond that an economy which has lost swathes of businesses in its manufacturing and farming industries while enjoying an 800 per cent increase in the "male grooming market" since 1998 is an economy that has lost all appetite for competitiveness and given way to self-indulgence. If we are keener on moisturising than on making goods and growing food, perhaps it is not worth investing in us at all.</p> <p>It would be unfair to leave the subject at this point, however: there is another aspect of Westwood's analysis that deserves attention - and it is as far removed as could be from the world of Notting Hill salons and primal screaming holidays, not to mention Vanessa Feltz's <em>Cosmetic Surgery Live</em>.</p> <p>For yuppies, self-esteem deficit syndrome may be a largely imaginary excuse for shopping, but for those who are poor, jobless and have been failed by the state education system, it is much more real. Step forward here an unlikely hero of this story, though a keen adherent of alternative therapies: the Prince of Wales.</p> <p>When he was criticised in November for appearing to suggest, in a leaked memo, that children with little talent would do better to have a little less aspiration, his defenders pointed out that through his charity, the Prince's Trust, he has probably done more than anyone else in Britain over the past three decades to boost the self-worth and aspiration of young people on the edge of society - more than half a million of them.</p> <p>Earlier this year I watched for myself, at an after-school club for underachievers in a Burnley comprehensive and on a training course for 18- to 25-year-olds at the Bolton YMCA, how the trick is done. The key is to find a kernel of self-esteem in kids who would otherwise think of themselves as social rejects and no-hopers, and would most likely turn to drugs and crime.</p> <p>To the extent that the trust's self-esteem coaching makes troubled youngsters revalue themselves and become productive members of society, Westwood's thesis stands proud. However, it would be wise not to overload it with psychobabble about middle-class shopping habits.</p> <p>Meanwhile, more from Gael Lindenfield. Eighty-three: buy yourself a small book of motivational quotations. Ninety-nine: think of yourself as a product for sale. One hundred and seventeen: like celebrities, transform your appearance regularly. And finally, if Christmas shopping is getting you down, 119: imagine that you have three weeks to live.</p> </div></div></div> Sat, 01 Jan 2005 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 149619 at You won't make money, so make love . . . <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">That, more or less, is the advice of the billionaire Warren Buffett: even if the Iraq war ends quick</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>Once the shooting starts, the stock market will wobble again like it did earlier this month, when it lost 6 per cent on Wednesday, falling to an eight-year low, only to climb back 15 per cent by the following Tuesday. "Wobble", by the way, is intended to suggest movement in one direction then the other, without trying to predict whether shares will move up or down first or whether they will finish the coming week higher or lower. Frankly, your guess is as good as mine - and at least as good as that of the overpaid City pundits who have misforecast the FTSE-100 index for the past three years.</p> <p>Stock markets are about as predictable as shoals of tiny tropical fish, darting hither in greed and thither in fear, sometimes dodging a shark, sometimes dodging a shadow they think is a shark; sometimes sensing nutritious algae ahead, only to find worthless clouds of sand; sometimes seeing all these things at once and displaying no collective sense of direction at all. Stock markets have no more idea than you or me about what is going to happen to Saddam Hussein, or Tony Blair, or the global economy, or the behaviour of shoppers in Marks & Spencer. They just guess wildly, correct themselves, and guess again.</p> <p>What's more, the stock market does not even know what is going to happen to the stock market. Asked whether the FTSE low of 3287 marked the end of the bear market, equity strategists could offer little except cliches about "the fat lady singing" - or not singing, as the case may be. Only one - Simon Davies of Threadneedle Asset Management - was honest enough to admit that he had not "the foggiest idea" how shares will behave in the short term. "You'd be barking mad," he went on, "to think there was no risk involved in investing at the moment."</p> <p>But millions of us are investing at the moment, whether we like it or not, through corporate and personal pension plans, unit trusts, ISA accounts and bombed-out shares that we already happen to own.</p> <p>It would be comforting to have a clue whether we can expect to feel richer or poorer by this time next year. So let me try to demystify the arguments on both sides.</p> <p>The case for imminent market recovery is based on the simple argument that shares have fallen far enough, for long enough, to address all the negative factors that started the fall. The FTSE index has been dropping for more than three years, which is longer than any bear market since the 1930s. It has lost half its value, which means that shares now trade at price-earnings multiples (the ratio of a company's share price to its expected profits per share) of 16 times, which is close to the long-term average.</p> <p>Shares also offer dividend yields above 4 per cent, compared to only 3.3 per cent on government stock - the first time since the 1950s that equities have offered better income than gilts.The yield is a reflection of the perceived risk: the higher the risk, the greater the return the investor expects. The relatively low return on gilts reflects the investors' belief that governments, which cannot go bankrupt, are still a safer haven for money than private companies.</p> <p>Meanwhile, optimists say, share prices are more than usually out of touch with reality: things are just not that bad. The British economy is still growing, albeit slowly; inflation is under control; unemployment is low. And the war in Iraq could be done in a month - the rally of 13 and14 March was prompted partly by trading-floor reactions to rumours that Iraqi battalions are ready to surrender en masse. If that turns out to be true, the oil price will swiftly drop back to a comfortable $20-$25 a barrel (in recent weeks it moved to above $30) giving growth an immediate boost. We will be back to business as usual, and share buying will be in fashion again by Easter.</p> <p>But then there is the opposite case: the market's nadir is still to come. IG Index, a spread-betting service popular with City types, is indicating that the FTSE will fall to 2780 before it finally rises again. Some pundits put the bottom below 2000, pointing out that, in percentage terms, the index has to fall to 1884 to match the bear market of 1972-75.</p> <p>Behind this pessimism is the realisation that the global economic woes that were depressing markets before George Bush decided to start a war will still be there after he wins it. The diplomatic drama of recent months has distracted us from America's trade deficit, Japan's deflation, Europe's sclerosis and our own soaring levels of household debt. We have forgotten that corporate America is so discredited by Enron and other scandals that investors no longer believe profit figures, or anything they are told by Wall Street analysts.</p> <p>We have ignored the dangerous exposures built up by traders in derivatives, the complex instruments recently described by the American billionaire investor Warren Buffett as "weapons of financial mass destruction" (see Patrick Hosking, page 33). We have overlooked the fact that, on historical comparisons, US shares are still strikingly overvalued - at a price-earnings ratio of 27, compared to a long-term average of 17. They could easily dive in response to more corporate scandals, another terrorist outrage, or a setback in Iraq. And if US shares dive, British shares will, too.</p> <p>They may dive again anyway, if a major life assurance com- pany declares itself insolvent and defaults on its obligations to pension policy-holders - a disaster that is daily more likely while the values of the assur-ers' share portfolios remain so depressed. Shares will dive if FTSE-100 companies' profits fall far below forecast because cash has had to be put aside to fill an estimated £65bn black hole in their own pension funds.</p> <p>Prices will sink if Tony Blair loses his career gamble on Iraq and is succeeded by Gordon Brown, a socialist (as the market sees it) with no apparent sympathy for private investors, pension funds, or companies struggling to make profits. While Blair remains in post, prices could plunge in response to the Budget in April, which is expected to contain lower growth forecasts and more tax rises.</p> <p>So what should we expect shares to do next? The best synthesis of history and punditry I can offer is that the rally in the run-up to war will be followed by a period of extreme volatility while fighting continues, a euphoric surge when Saddam falls, a jittery fall to a new low when the world realises what a mess it is in afterwards, and a long, slow recovery beyond that.</p> <p>Don't expect the FTSE 100 to regain its 1999 peak of 6930 for a decade; don't invest in anything you don't understand; and remember the wisdom of billionaire Buffett: "Money can't change how many people love you."</p> </div></div></div> Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 145064 at The New Statesman Profile - Institute for Fiscal Studies <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">All the parties sought its approval during the election, but it sees itself as unravelling the decei</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>The search goes on for the real winners of the recent election. Politics itself was a loser, beaten into a poor second place by apathy. For punditry, the results were mixed: a raspberry to MORI for consistently overstating Labour's lead; a coconut to Matthew Taylor of the IPPR, for the largest number of television appearances, and to the American spin-doctor Frank Lutz, for his offbeat view. But a special prize for being clear, sensible and impervious to candidates' double-speak goes to a body of economists and tax accountants toiling in the salt mines of manifesto minutiae under one of the most yawn-inducing names in the London phone book: the Institute for Fiscal Studies.</p> <p>The IFS, personified by its director, Andrew Dilnot, occupies a uniquely authoritative niche in modern British political debate. When the institute said, at the beginning of the election campaign, that the tax burden had gone up under Labour, there was no point in anyone claiming that it had not. Every party was eager to say that its proposals had been given the once-over by the institute. Members on the House of Commons Treasury select committee listen like schoolboys when Dilnot takes them through the implications of legislative small print.</p> <p>The erstwhile Department of Social Security habitually sent its statistics to the institute's Bloomsbury headquarters for audit before publication - and did so ever since, in the late 1980s, the IFS spotted an accidental double counting of housing benefit in DSS figures that made low-income households look better off than they really were.</p> <p>The key to the institute's rise to judicial eminence is what John Kay, a former director of research at the IFS, calls "the objectivity thing". All the other think-tanks - whether the bow-tied free-marketeers of the Institute of Economic Affairs and the Adam Smith Institute, or the no-tie new-leftists exemplified by Matthew Taylor - look at the issues of the day through the prism of their own preconceptions and mission statements. The IFS, by contrast, sternly avoids any attempt to "plug a line or do good", says Kay.</p> <p>"It's our absolute intention never to come at something from a particular standpoint," echoes Dilnot. "We are quite deliberately independent, and we're our own regulatory mechanism."</p> <p>Is it possible to be genuinely objective in the institute's subject area? And is the success of the IFS really based on the in-depth quality of its output on riveting topics such as <em>Surplus ACT: a solution in sight?</em> and <em>A Recursive Algorithm to Generate Piecewise Linear Budget Constraints</em>? Or does it boil down to a brilliant marketing job by the television-friendly Dilnot?</p> <p>In his decade as director, Dilnot - who is still only 40 - has certainly upped the institute's profile. But its reputation in the cloistered world of serious thinkers about tax policy goes back 20 years before that. The institute was first mooted in 1965 by four City executives who were appalled by the then chancellor James Callaghan's introduction of capital gains tax, in what they regarded as a half-baked piece of legislation. One of them, the tax consultant John Chown, described the founding group as united in a determination that "never again should a government, regardless of its political colour and intentions, introduce far-reaching tax legislation without the benefit of deep and thorough analysis".</p> <p>If the civil service was not up to the job, a shadow organisation was needed to do it instead. A brainstorming weekend at The Bell hotel at Aston Clinton in Oxfordshire led to the founding of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which was incorporated on 21 May 1969. The first director was Dick (now Lord) Taverne QC, who had been financial secretary to the Treasury under the chancellorship of Roy Jenkins. </p> <p>One of his contributions to the IFS was to commission the 1978 Meade report on the structure and reform of direct taxation in the UK, under the Nobel laureate economist James Meade, assisted by three bright young men: John Flemming and Mervyn King, who went on to be successive chief economists at the Bank of England, and John Kay. It was Kay who took the institute forward in the early 1980s, and who recruited Dilnot. Kay had taught at St John's College, Oxford, where he spotted Dilnot as a philosophy, politics and economics undergraduate with a flair for empirical data and an enthusiasm for computer modelling. Chatting in the quad one day in 1980, Kay offered him a summer job at the IFS. Dilnot has, in effect, been there ever since. After ten years of churning out learned papers on everything from the scale of the black economy to the future funding of the BBC, he emerged into the limelight as director of the institute in 1991.</p> <p>Small, neat, classless and personable, he has established himself as the nation's best explainer of fiscal change on Budget Day, and as a top-class soundbite artist at any other time. Neither bow-tie nor no-tie, Dilnot is a well-turned-out television natural, with a trustworthy face and a voice made more interesting by hints of his formative years at Maidstone Grammar and Olchfa Comprehensive in Swansea.</p> <p>He has the added advantage of being obviously happy in his work. "We have tremendous fun," he says, denying any urge to advance from analysing and explaining to real policy-making as a government adviser or "people's peer".</p> <p>Applying rigorous cost-benefit analysis to his own working life, he negotiated a salary cut at the institute in exchange for longer holidays, which he mostly spends at home in Oxford with his wife (an accountancy teacher) and two children. And he prefers to play down his own prominence as the public face of the IFS: in a team photograph in its 30th anniversary brochure, he appears in the back row.</p> <p>But what are his own politics, we might ask. His recent contribution to Channel 4's <em>Politics Isn't Working</em> series seemed to provide a clue. Subtitled <em>More Unequal Than Ever</em>, the programme was an artful exposition of the wealth gap in Britain - illustrated by Dilnot cycling up a Leeds hillside populated by families of varying economic altitude, from a single mother on benefits at the bottom to a millionaire entrepreneur at the top.</p> <p>Drawing graphs with his finger on a steamed-up cafe window, Dilnot went on to prove that the rich had got richer faster than the poor had got less poor, even under Gordon Brown's chancellorship. To narrow the gap, he concluded, would require more radical policies on tax, health and education. But was he actually recommending such a course? Close analysis of an accompanying <em>Guardian</em> leader-page article suggests he did not actually go that far: his message was simply that "we cannot have European levels of public service with British levels of tax, or American levels of tax with British levels of service", and that none of the three major parties in the last election "seems prepared to address the scale of the real choices we face".</p> <p>His mission is to explain rather than preach, but, by choosing income inequality as the subject for this personal essay, Dilnot has perhaps given us a hint of where he stands. His mentor, John Kay - talking about the IFS in general, rather than Dilnot in particular - says that it is almost impossible to be "100 per cent neutral" in economic analysis; there is a danger that if you claim you have no point of view at all, people will assume you mean "you're somewhere in the SDP-Lib Dem middle".</p> <p>Kay has become associated with ideas about corporate responsibility and stakeholding, placing him in the centre left of the business-school world. The tacit ideology in the work of the institute, he says, is that "there's always been a market orientation". But not enough of one, say right-wing critics of the institute. "There's always some degree of value judgement involved. In the IFS's case, they're basically happy with the general levels of current taxation. They reinforce the consensus view of the size of the state. They're just not radical enough."</p> <p>Such criticism deliberately ignores the limits of the institute's self-defined role, which is to unravel the deceits of politicians and civil servants so that the rest of us can judge for ourselves whether we are being cheated. With a chancellor who wants to tax us more without us noticing, and an opposition that wants to tax us less without us noticing what that means for spending, there has never been a greater need for Dilnot and his team.</p> </div></div></div> Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 140900 at A stake worth holding? <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">From this month, salesmen will be offering the low-paid a new type of pension. But Martin Vander Wey</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>Students of political language will relish the reappearance of "stakeholder". Once a power-word of the 1990s, it was so ideologically loaded that for a while new Labour found it too hot to handle; but now, like an almost forgotten hostage, it has emerged blinking into the light as the brand name for the government's personal pension scheme.</p> <p>Like all such words when used by politicians or corporate chiefs, it warns us of rhetorical sleight of hand, of an attempt to make something sound more benevolent and life-enhancing than it really is. Think of "community" in "care in the community"; or "sustainable", as used in company profit statements to suggest concern for the environment; or virtually any use of the word "inclusive". So the "stakeholder pension", operational as of the next financial year, seeks to suggest something more significant than a mere savings scheme.</p> <p>In its 1990s usage, stakeholding referred specifically to the idea - popularised by Will Hutton and John Kay - that employees, suppliers, customers and the community at large all had stakes in any given business comparable to the ownership rights of shareholders; and that managers had a duty to run the business in the interest of all stakeholders, rather than merely in the financial interests of owners.</p> <p>Tony Blair picked up the concept and enlarged it, in a speech in Singapore in January 1996, into an all-embracing "stakeholder society", which looked briefly as though it might be the big idea for his manifesto. But it played badly with focus groups (in one poll a month later, three-quarters of those asked had no clue what the phrase meant) and even worse with business leaders, whom Labour was trying urgently to befriend. So it was buried with scarcely another mention, and the loaded word itself was dropped from the Downing Street lexicon - until a use was found for it at last, to add sex and gravitas to personal pensions.</p> <p>But does the scheme live up to the claim for social justice that is packed into its name?</p> <p>In fairness to Alistair Darling, the social security secretary, the stakeholder scheme sets out to avoid the invitations to malpractice of personal pension arrangements nurtured by the Tories. What seemed a perfect expression of Thatcherism - encouraging personal responsibility, reducing the burden on the state - turned into the "mis-selling" fiasco, in which hundreds of thousands of people were lured by incompetent or dishonest salesmen into pensions that would have left them worse off than the established schemes they had opted to leave.</p> <p>The first personal pensions carried hefty fees to get in (upwards of 7 per cent), with even heftier penalties to change or get out again, and they often produced rotten returns.</p> <p>The stakeholder scheme, by contrast, imposes a maximum 1 per cent annual fee and allows the holder to stop, restart or change the level of contributions, or transfer to a new pension provider, at any time without penalty. So far so good - even if the terms are so tough on providers that it will take a decade for them turn a profit, creating a risk that only the biggest will stay in the market, while smaller providers pull out and leave their customers adrift. But where the scheme goes seriously astray is in its much-trumpeted ambition to reach parts of the population that even the most persistent pension salesmen never reached before: five million people in the £9,000- £20,000 income bracket.</p> <p>The first problem is that those at the lower end of this bracket simply do not have the habit or the means of saving. Even the minimum £20 monthly stakeholder subscription may be beyond them; and, so far, despite heavy advertising, nine out of ten of those with no pension arrangements in place say they have no intention of taking out a stakeholder plan.</p> <p>What is worse, if they do take one, those at the lower end of the bracket may find themselves - just like the previous set of victims - poorer than they would otherwise have been. They may finish up with too small a pension to live on, but too much to allow them to qualify for certain means-tested state benefits. In a classic example of the over-complexity of Gordon Brown's approach to tax and benefits, a modest stakeholder pension could wipe out entitlements under the minimum income guarantee and pension credit schemes, as well as rebates of rent and council tax. The unhappy recipient may be left with the suspicion that the plan was designed not so much to help him pay for his old age, as to help the government not pay for it.</p> <p>The scheme will prove equally unpopular with another section of "the people". By the autumn, when the stakeholder scheme will come into full effect, Britain's small businessmen, never slow to complain, will be obliged to set up staff pension schemes if they have five or more employees. Even though they will not necessarily have to contribute to these funds, the cost of administering them will add to the burden - put by the Confederation of British Industry at £12.3bn a year so far - of what is known in small-business circles as "Tony's red tape". Around 250,000 employers will have to comply or else face £50,000 fines.</p> <p>On the other hand, the stakeholder scheme looks like a winner for the kind of people Brown is least eager to help: the already well-off and well-advised. Since the maximum £3,600 annual stakeholder allowance can be invested on behalf of a non-working spouse, a fat-cat banker who already has ample pension provisions of his own can use it to cut his tax bill and provide his wife with a nice little pension as a Christmas stocking-filler, instead of a diamond necklace.</p> <p>The allowance can also be used to establish pension funds for children, though the money will be untouchable until they reach the age of 50. A rich grandfather, himself already enjoying the benefits of well-cushioned retirement, can pay full stakeholder contributions for a favourite granddaughter until her 18th birthday: in doing so he will reduce his remaining assets for inheritance-tax purposes, while she will be sitting on a fund worth £425,000 by the time she is 50.</p> <p>Far from achieving the Chancellor's aim of stealthily redistributing the national cake, the stakeholder scheme looks set to put more icing on the slice devoted to dynastic wealth.</p> <p>Meanwhile, independent financial advisers and pension providers are feverishly at work devising tailor-made schemes for other categories of sophisticated customer. Massow Rainbow - run by Ivan Massow, who was tipped as a Tory candidate for London mayor before defecting to Labour last year - offers a scheme designed to fit stakeholder rules while catering specifically for gay investors by paying death benefits to same-sex partners.</p> <p>As with ISAs and the whole gamut of tax reliefs and credits, it is those with time and cash on their hands who will read the small print and gain the advantage. The unsophisticated and hard-pressed - the housewife working part-time in a call-centre or a nursing home, for example - most likely will not. The stakeholder scheme is an improvement on what went before, but it will not make the poor less dependent on the state, nor hand them a stake to hold unless they themselves make the leap required to grasp it.</p> <p>In that sense, its portentous name will serve only as another reminder of the gap between reality and political rhetoric.</p> </div></div></div> Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 140134 at Why Brits prefer foreign bosses <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Martin Vander Weyer detects a loss of national confidence behind our growing practice of filling top</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>What special quality does Bob Kiley share with Luc Vandevelde, Matthew Barrett, Clara Furse, Sven-Goran Eriksson and Pierre-Yves Gerbeau? Each of them was appointed to manage a crisis-torn feature of British national life: respectively London Underground, Marks & Spencer, Barclays Bank, the London Stock Exchange, the England football team and the Millennium Dome. They range widely in age and experience, from service in the US Central Intelligence Agency for the 63-year-old Kiley to a spell as an international ice-hockey star for the 35-year-old Gerbeau. But they have one important thing in common: they are not British.</p> <p>It is a curious paradox that a nation which remains resolutely chauvinistic in some respects should suffer a collapse of self-confidence when it comes to picking managers. We still think of ourselves as producing the world's best fighting soldiers; we nurture the wisest judges and the most versatile film actors; we remain proud of our architects, scientists, oarsmen and yachtswomen. But when it comes to picking people to run high-profile businesses and projects that have run into trouble, we call for Johnny Foreigner every time.</p> <p>Why should that be so? There was a time, not long ago, when we were good at managing everything from ceremonial fireworks displays to the entire workings of the Hong Kong government. Brits were unflappable, incorruptible, authoritative, good at dealing with nuts and bolts: no challenge was too big, no detail too small. We were the nation that produced Sir Alf Ramsey, the world-beating football manager, and Montagu Norman of the Bank of England, the role model of central bank governors the world over, and the admirable Crichton, the butler who took charge of his desert island with such natural aplomb.</p> <p>But we seem to have lost all that, or at least we think we have. To be a top-class manager requires stamina, judgement, leadership and a grasp of the minutiae of the project in hand, but today's British candidates rarely measure up.</p> <p>Those of a right-wing persuasion might say that the moral fibre and attention span of the generation now eligible for top jobs were sapped by being formed in the 1960s and 1970s, the decades when teachers ceased to demand decent classroom standards, industrial bosses gave up the struggle against union militants, and no one had any economic incentive to strive for excellence. They might go on to say that serious managers are less willing to offer themselves for jobs in the public eye today because the Blairite demands of focus groups and political correctness are too constraining. The left might then retort that the roots of the trouble lay in the example set in the previous generation by a decaying officer class that believed it had a God-given right to command; and that the problem today is the short-termist greed which makes clever people want to cut and run with their bonus cheques, rather than commit themselves to difficult long-term projects.</p> <p>But both sides might agree that the British education system was never particularly well designed to produce top managers in the first place. Too many bright people, according to this theory, pursue degree courses in literature or history, which tell them little about the real world. Many Americans point out that we do not treat management itself as a science akin to engineering, and that Britain's poor track record is a reflection of the relatively small numbers of British managers who hold the MBA qualification - a prerequisite for reaching the upper strata of US corporations.</p> <p>Have we become too narrow to be top-class managers in the modern world? British clearing banks, for example, used to be criticised for promoting executives who had joined as school-leavers and were judged to lack the sophistication and breadth required to run global operations in fast-changing markets. But the two most successful British bankers of recent years, Sir Brian Pitman of Lloyds TSB and Sir William Purves of HSBC, finished their education at Cheltenham Grammar and Kelso High School respectively.</p> <p>As for the value of an MBA, most British personnel directors would regard it as an opportunity for up-and-coming executives to take a refreshing mid-career break, do some useful networking and enlarge their vocabulary, but not as the key to releasing latent powers of front-rank leadership. Some would argue that what we need is a different American attribute, usually seen at its most vivid in movies such as <em>Airport </em>and <em>Earthquake</em>: the habit of tackling management problems with cigar-chewing, profanity-scattering aggression, as though they were military skirmishes. The bite that Bob Kiley looks capable of bringing to London Underground may owe something to his time at Harvard Business School - but it will owe a lot more to his eight years of experience as chairman of New York's Metropolitan Transport Authority, not only because he knows what he is doing but, crucially, because the media and the public <em>believe</em> that he knows what he is doing.</p> <p>"Management? It's all about confidence and trust," Ron Manager, <em>The Fast Show</em>'s celebrated soccer pundit, might readily opine. And the core problem with many British managers today is not that they lack the talents of their predecessors, but that the press and stock-market analysts have destroyed the public's confidence in them to such an extent that it is impossible for them to do an effective job.</p> <p>Thus did soccer journalists write off the chances of any native-born football manager succeeding Kevin Keegan as England's coach - and then gave vent to traditional tabloid xenophobia when the Football Association yielded to pressure and gave the job to Sven-Goran Eriksson. Similarly, an unknown Belgian, Luc Vandevelde, had to be parachuted in last year as executive chairman of the tottering Marks & Spencer, while the London Stock Exchange - until recently a bastion of English male chauvinism - has just appointed a Dutch woman, Clara Furse, as its new chief.</p> <p>Whether the pressure for these foreign appointments comes from journalists or, in the case of public companies, from stock-market analysts, it is not based on inside knowledge of the shortlist of candidates, but on the simple urge for a headline-making story. For analysts, that means finding something new to say to institutional investors about the company concerned which will generate turnover in the company's shares - and profits for the analyst's firm and bonuses for the analyst. Meanwhile, board directors whose own remuneration is tied up in stock options must be tempted to vote for the candidate whose funny foreign name will do most to boost the share price. The market loves a Yank (Marjorie Scardino of Pearson) or an Irishman (Niall FitzGerald of Unilever); and Sir John Browne of BP Amoco likes to point out that his mother is Hungarian.</p> <p>And so we go on importing our bosses, and devaluing our native talents. As the <em>Daily Telegraph</em> lamented on the day of Eriksson's appointment, even the headmaster of Eton is a New Zealander, while the only top management job which seems certain to remain in British hands is that of Archbishop of Canterbury. Or is it? Even now, one suspects, headhunters are trawling the globe for that glamorous Commonwealth prelate whose name might boost the Church's fading stock . . .</p> <p><em>Martin Vander Weyer's </em>Falling Eagle: the decline of Barclays Bank<em> is published by Phoenix (£8.99)</em></p> </div></div></div> Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 139661 at So, who still wants to be a millionaire? <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">Wealth is no longer the target of class envy. Now the press goes gunning for men and women of taste,</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>The horror writer Stephen King caused a ripple in the money world last month by announcing that his latest novel, <em>The Plant</em>, would be published only on the internet, bypassing the book industry. The moral, as pointed out by several investment gurus, was that, in the new economy, the most significant assets are the intangible ones - ideas, images, authorship - while the tangible hardware and real estate of the old economy (in this case, printing presses and bookshops) are suddenly a lot less important than they used to be.</p> <p>In Britain's social order, a corresponding shift is beginning to appear: there is a new kind of aspiration and a new kind of envy, attached not so much to tangible wealth as to the intangible attributes of sophistication and social presence that wealth can bring.</p> <p>The rich are no longer interesting to the rest of us just because they qualify for the label "millionaire", even if parts of the press still lazily use it to signal disapproval, as in "Gay Tory millionaire defects to Labour" or "Blair's millionaire pal in tax row". <em>Who Wants to be a Millionaire?</em> - the hugely popular television show - is hypnotic viewing not because it makes people's dreams come true, but because it humiliates them with the crudeness of the urge expressed in its title.</p> <p>These days, what provokes fascination - more often tinged with hostility than admiration - is not the meat and potatoes of wealth itself, but the side salads and savouries it brings to those who understand the new menu: to be a man or woman of influence, taste, freedom and cool is a much more conspicuous sin than to be a person of property, a true, old-fashioned millionaire.</p> <p>This is partly because millionaires in the strict arithmetic sense are now ten a penny. Thanks to rising share and house prices, total personal wealth in Britain increased by almost 50 per cent in the past decade. Over the same period, the sum required to win one of the top 200 places in the <em>Sunday Times</em>'s annual Rich List tripled from £50m to £150m. At the entry level of millionaireship, an actuary will happily certify your seven-figure status if you own a family-sized property in central London and have any sort of decent job with pension rights attached to it. What with the sale proceeds of the Islington house, the little weekend place in Sedgefield and Cherie's income from the Bar, the Blairs - who were, until the recent horizontal-Euan incident, Britain's undisputed model family - could clearly claim the title. If your surname happens to be Patel rather than Blair, your likelihood of be-ing a millionaire is as high as one in 72, and you have a one-in-a-thousand chance of breaking the more challenging £5m barrier. That's a seven times better chance than if you're called Smith, incidentally. But, whatever your name, material wealth is waving at you from not very far away.</p> <p>What all this really means is that, as a result of inflation and economic growth, a million ain't what it used to be, here or anywhere else. There was probably a time when being a lire millionaire made you a big pecorino in Italy, but so what? All we have to do is add the prefix "multi" to restore the lost <em>frisson </em>of exclusivity. But that misses my point about the intangible assets that distinguish new fortunes from old ones.</p> <p>What interests the tabloids about the Downing Street adviser Gavyn Davies is not that he has just sold £15m worth of shares in his employer, Goldman Sachs, and has another £85m-worth up his sleeve, but that he made it on to the Brown-Macaulay wedding invitation list, and once commissioned the building of a prize-winning modern house in Devon. By contrast, no one seems to give a fig - to pick two out of many possible examples - about the newspaper-owning Barclay brothers, holed up unseen on their private Channel Island with £650m; still less do we care about the £2bn empire of the conscientious, stressed-out Duke of Westminster, who gains so little joy from owning whole postal districts of prime London property.</p> <p>So we have the beginning of a sociological theory here. The puritanical streak in the British nature - which underpinned, for much of the past century, the socialist streak - disapproves at heart not so much of assets as of attitude. Expansiveness, eclecticism and membership of powerful, mutually admiring elites are things that money can, but doesn't always, satisfy, and they are things that the wider British public and its media tribunes regard with the deepest suspicion. They are also precisely the things that the switched-on new rich aspire to, rather than richness itself. Thus the ultimate hate-icon of the new puritans is fox-hunting, while the ultimate aim of the new rich is, as it were, to hunt with the Beaufort and dine with the Blairs, a combination that is almost bound to get them into tabloid trouble. But if the alternative is to sit in a tax haven clipping dividend coupons, or to work a 15-hour day in some City bear-pit, well, what's rich about that?</p> <p>Time to spare and a measure of originality are essential elements of this new wealth. The most basic ingredient, the money itself, has to be made quickly or in short bursts of intense creative activity (inheriting it can be OK, too, if you spend it right), so that it doesn't interfere with the self-expression. It may even be possible to acquire the attitude of new richness without actually acquiring the assets first, but what used to be called "independent means" will certainly help.</p> <p>For a while, until the bubble burst, making a dotcom fortune looked like the best way to reach that starting point, because it could be done in a year, in a casual, dressed-down way, setting your own work patterns and astonishing your friends with the blue-sky boldness of your business plan. Television production is also cool, Lord (Waheed) Alli of Carlton TV being, in every perfect detail, an archetype of new richness. Fiction writing, the source of wealth and new-rich recognition for the likes of Robert Harris and Ken Follett (or, across the Atlantic, Stephen King), is even cooler.</p> <p>But what is uncool, what nobody cares about these days, or wants to write about, is the old-economy wealth of bankers, industrialists and landowners, burdened with all that hardware and real estate and feudal responsibility. In the case of the first two, they are probably condemned to years of arduous full-time office work before they can cash in their share options and even begin to emulate the new rich, with their spacious, balanced, pick'n'mix lifestyles, their networking and patronage and passionate causes. Bankers and their ilk once occupied the staterooms of life's great cruise ship, courted and waited upon; now they are no more than well-paid mechanics down in the engine room. Poor fellows: nobody wants to be their kind of millionaire any more, so no one really hates them.</p> <p>Meanwhile, the new rich, harbingers of the new economy, with time on their hands, opinions to express and a deep belief in their own importance, jostle for places at the captain's table. They're the ones the reporters are watching and the tabloid-reading steerage passengers envy. In the conflict between "us" and "them", they are the new "them", the new class enemy.</p> </div></div></div> Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 138341 at The New Statesman Profile - The Sainsbury family <div class="field field-name-field-subheadline field-type-text-long field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even">From tradesmen to trustafarians in four generations: a nose for business has turned into anxiety for</div></div></div><div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-fulltext"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>Profits are down again, the share price is tottering, the historic head office is up for sale and a couple of dozen senior executives are heading for the door. J Sainsbury, once a benchmark of quality and top-to-bottom management grip among British supermarket operators, has comprehensively lost its way, a classic example of a dynastic company that has run out of dynasts. It has lost its sense of identity and purpose because the dynasty itself lost its appetite for business, but lingered too long before relinquishing control to meritocracy and marketing science.</p> <p>"Clogs to clogs in three generations" is an old northern expression for the way descendants of self-made men tend to fritter their inheritance. The Sainsburys lasted longer than that, and if any of them wear wooden shoes it is entirely for environmental reasons. But still they have conformed to the pattern: tradesmen to trustafarians in five generations.</p> <p>Of the fifth generation Sainsburys - there are ten - not one works in the business founded by John James Sainsbury and Mary Ann Staples. Some tried it briefly, but didn't like it: Alexander, the son of the former Tory MP Sir Timothy Sainsbury, joined as a graduate trainee, but chucked it in after a matter of weeks. Only one, Mark - the son of Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover, chairman of the firm from 1969 to 1992 - has made a successful stab at a related kind of business, as a restaurateur at Moro in London's fashionable Clerkenwell.</p> <p>All of them, however, have followed the family's other tradition of supporting charitable causes. Trade and charity very often go hand in hand; those who make money often take satisfaction in giving it away. But something counter-intuitive can happen in the genes: the money-making instinct - surely a hard-nosed little fighter in any struggle for genetic supremacy - eventually atrophies and is driven out by softer, more benevolent urges. In the history of the Sainsburys, the evolution of these two strains is particularly vivid.</p> <p>John James, the son of a picture-frame maker, and Mary Ann, the daughter of a St Pancras dairyman, were a humble, hard-working couple who married in 1869 and opened a shop selling butter, eggs and milk at 173 Drury Lane. The business prospered and their son John Benjamin (1871-1956; known as "Mr John" within the company) expanded it into a chain of 250 grocery outlets throughout the south of England, East Anglia and the Midlands. John married Mabel Van den Bergh, an heiress from a Dutch Jewish family whose fortune was made in margarine. Their sons, Alan and Robert, built the reputation of the business for quality and innovation. Having inherited both Victorian and Jewish traditions of philanthropy, they also set the tone of the family's prevailing left-liberal social conscience.</p> <p>Alan (1902-1998) was the first of three Sainsburys to receive a life peerage. He was a fiery personality and an energetic shopkeeper. It was he who imported from America - to Sainsbury's Croydon branch, in 1950 - the concept of self-service grocery shopping, overcoming protests from customers offended at being asked to fill their own wire baskets. He introduced oven-ready frozen chickens and the simple but powerful slogan "Good Food Costs Less At Sainsbury's". He also stood as a Liberal parliamentary candidate in the 1930s, and joined the Labour Party in 1945. In 1981, he was one of 100 prominent supporters of the "Gang of Four" who broke away from Labour to form the SDP.</p> <p>Sir Robert, Alan's younger brother and co-general manager - who married another Van den Bergh, his second cousin, Lisa - was a gentler soul, much concerned with staff welfare and passionately interested in art. An early patron of Alberto Giacometti, Henry Moore and Francis Bacon, he eventually gave his vast collection of modern and primitive art to the University of East Anglia. He died a few weeks ago, aged 93, his 18 per cent shareholding in the business having long ago passed to his only son, David, now the Department of Trade and Industry minister, Lord Sainsbury of Turville.</p> <p>The children of Alan and Robert display, very distinctly, the contrast of hard and soft genes that differentiated their fathers. All three of Alan's sons - John, Tim and Simon - went into the business. In the eldest, John Davan Sainsbury, Alan had produced an heir who, despite his Stowe and Oxford education, turned out to be a grocer to his fingertips. Born in 1927, "Mr JD" took as his guiding light the principle that "retail is detail".</p> <p>A short-tempered autocrat, he approved every packaging design himself, and liked to patrol the aisles checking that produce was fresh and cans stacked to the front of the shelves. During his 23-year chairmanship, Sainsbury's rose from ninth to first in the league of Britain's most profitable retailers, finally overtaking Marks & Spencer in 1992, shortly before his retirement. The company's market value went from £100m when it was floated in 1974 to a peak of more than £8bn - of which the extended family still owned more than a third, making them Britain's richest business dynasty.</p> <p>Created a peer as Lord Sainsbury of Preston Candover in 1989 and (most exclusive of all Establishment accolades) a Knight of the Garter in 1992, JD is best known for his patronage of the arts and architecture. He and his ex-ballerina wife, Anya Linden, funded ballet productions and studios; he was chairman and chief benefactor of the Royal Opera House; and he and his brothers gave a new wing to the National Gallery. His politics are pro- European and he is probably a Tory centrist in the same mould as his brother Tim, who was John Major's industry minister. If JD was ever tempted to become a Thatcherite, temptation passed when Downing Street suggested that he might like to fund the Opera House's running deficit out of his own pocket, instead of asking for more from the taxpayer.</p> <p>JD stayed in command at Sainsbury's Stamford Street headquarters until his 65th birthday. His cousin David, who succeeded him, might once have expected to do the same - holding the reins until 2005. As it was, he lasted only until 1998 when - as profits slid and Tesco established a clear market lead - he responded to shareholder pressure and yielded the chair to its first non-family occupant, the former GrandMet chief Sir George Bull.</p> <p>The trouble with David was that he was no grocer at all, and not much of a leader. His real interests lay elsewhere, in politics, science and social reform. He had been the chief financial backer of David Owen and the SDP, sticking with Owen after the party's demise. Later, seeing new Labour as a reborn SDP, he helped to fund Tony Blair's leadership campaign. In private, he devoted much of the dividend income from his £1.5bn worth of Sainsbury shares to scientific research and work on social exclusion and mental health. This was done through a trust he named the Gatsby Foundation - after Scott Fitzgerald's playboy character, whom he resembles not at all, living modestly, and even suppressing his Eton education in his <em>Who's Who </em>entry. He was happy to come into service as Labour's science minister, despite the hostility he was bound to attract from both ends of the political spectrum.</p> <p>Living quietly, worrying about society, supporting the arts, being immensely rich: these are the essential activities of modern Sainsburys. And it must be said that the third and fourth generations did them all extremely well. They did not buy art for prestige, but because they liked it. They did not do philanthropy to advertise the company name, but out of a sense of duty; indeed, until the Sainsbury wing of the National Gallery was unveiled, the wider public knew little of their benefactions through a multitude of trusts - and still has little idea of the range of causes they have supported, from electoral reform to Christian-Jewish dialogue. When JD bought his 18th-century mansion at Preston Candover in Hampshire, it was said that the previous owner - the flamboyant Peter Cadbury - had cut down trees near the house to make it look bigger from the nearby road; JD replanted them to make it look smaller again.</p> <p>So it must have been a worry that the younger generation might break ranks and go to the bad. Twenty years ago, there was some tabloid bother with Jamie, the elder son of Sir Tim and his devoutly religious wife, Susie, involving right-wing dining-club antics at Ox-ford. But Jamie is now well within the fold; he helped fund the think-tank Demos and the one-off revival issue of <em>Marxism Today</em>, as well as the Winnicott child psychology research unit and Schumacher College in Devon, which teaches businessmen about sustainability. His brother Alexander collects modern art; their sister Jessica supports women's centres and groups. Only their second sister, Camilla, seems to have got the formula wrong, having chosen to fund her husband, the former Tory MP Shaun Woodward, with a £4m home and a butler in his Oxfordshire constituency, as well as a holiday home in Mustique.</p> <p>Little is known of some of the other young Sainsburys - David has three daughters, all in their twenties - but all of them are understood to have followed the family habit of putting part of their inheritance into trusts through which to support the causes of their own choice. Environmental issues are high on the list. Seventeen separate Sainsbury trusts currently provide more than £40m of annual grants.</p> <p>Old Sainsburys were confident, conscientious, Victorian paternalists. Young Sainsburys belong to the new age: soft-focused, reluctant to come into harness, anxious about the planet, a touch naive. As we watch the troubled grocery giant struggle to recover under non-family management, we can reflect on the beneficent outcome of four generations of capital accumulation, in which the old created so much for the young to give away.</p> </div></div></div> Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:00:00 +0000 Martin Vander Weyer 137851 at	http://www.newstatesman.com/feeds/writer/1040	<urn:uuid:39870059-d60a-44dc-b65c-abac729af732>	en	0.955452	0.044408
News Article Talking Point: Lessons to be Learned from WiiWare and Beamdog Posted by Thomas Whitehead Cool heads should prevail One news story has been dominant on Nintendo Life since it was posted, attracting a significant number of comments from the community. The news that MDK2 developers Beamdog will never develop for Nintendo again seemed to strike nerves, as strongly worded statements generally do. Writing on Twitter, studio president Trent Oster left no doubt about his company’s future prospects with Nintendo. The debate that followed has had arguments that support both Beamdog and Nintendo’s WiiWare policies, so we thought we’d take a look at both sides and, hopefully, find the middle ground. Complaints shouldn’t be dismissed We would suggest that Beamdog’s decision and word choice to declare an abandonment of Nintendo platforms was perhaps rash, especially in light of the fact that Wii U’s online platform may resolve the issues raised. If we push that aside, however, the revelations around this issue do highlight factual problems with WiiWare that are tough to ignore. Acknowledging these issues is not, as some may choose to believe, a rejection or betrayal of Nintendo, but rather an important part of recognising weaknesses in the Big N’s digital strategy on Wii. Expanding on his initial comments in an interview with Gamasutra, Oster described three main issues with publishing on WiiWare: payment policy, file size limitations and game certification. To begin with payment policy, it should be recognised that publishers are typically restricted by an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with Nintendo — an issue that was raised when Icon Games claimed "Nintendo's policies put jobs at risk", citing the fact that it wasn’t allowed to publish sales figures for its own games. The existence of a minimum sales requirement before payment, meanwhile, is reasonably well known, with Gamasutra reportedly speaking to a number of small developers who back that claim. Oster has stated that the required sales before royalties arrive is 6000 units, leading to a lack of any payment for MDK2 since release. At $10.00 (plus local sales tax) for 1000 Nintendo Points direct from the Wii Shop in the U.S. – also the cost of MDK2 — that could mean sales of almost $60,000 dollars, roughly, before any payments to the publisher. That of course assumes that Oster’s figure of 6000 units is correct, but if true it potentially represents a lot of money unclaimed if the sales target isn't reached. Although Nintendo naturally incurs costs for maintaining and hosting the Wii Shop platform, it’s clear that this represents a significant financial risk for developers that are, in some cases, small organisations with limited means. The issue of a 40MB file size limit, meanwhile, has been problematic for other developers, notably Team Meat being unable to compress Super Meat Boy without compromising the content beyond acceptable means. Perhaps a legacy of the Wii’s humble technical capabilities, including its minimal system memory, it’s a policy that hasn’t stopped some fantastic titles arriving on the service, but is a restriction nevertheless. The final issue, that of the certification process, is perhaps the greyest of the areas mentioned. In some senses stringent tests and standards are necessary to avoid broken games being sold on the platform, while Oster admitted that part of the lengthy process was down to Beamdog keeping QA in-house. Our time in cert was two-fold, a lack of proper QA on our part and slow report turn around from Nintendo. We'd get a bug, fix it, wait two weeks while Nintendo tested it, get a new bug, fix it, wait two weeks. After nine months from our first submission, we passed certification. We could have spent more money on our side and hired a certification testing team, but we ran our own small QA effort and ran through the certification requirements on our own. The end product is a better game for the extra testing Nintendo pushed on us, but we likely could have had the same results in a much shorter timeline. Whether two weeks turnaround from Nintendo on bug fixes is too slow is open to opinion, though a nine month process is understandably frustrating. No matter how loyal you may be towards Nintendo, these are problematic quirks of the WiiWare publishing system that seem to be very real, and are less than ideal for small developers in particular. Other issues such as the Wii Shop layout, limited promotional activity and strict pricing set by Nintendo have perhaps contributed to the dramatic decline in quality software to hit the service in recent months. Nintendo is learning from its mistakes The Wii Shop, and WiiWare in particular, has represented the best and worst of Nintendo. On the one hand it was a first tentative step into download-exclusive content, and there have been some high quality titles to grace the platform. The negative side is that developers such as Beamdog have raised major issues, some prohibited by the strict NDA, and the platform has struggled to maintain momentum and a quality library. The light at the end of the tunnel has, arguably, been the 3DS eShop, which has improved the consumer payment system and boasts a more appealing front end that promotes a variety of titles on a weekly basis, amongst other things. The file size limit is also much larger than those seen on the Wii or DSi Shops, with Mighty Switch Force being particularly hefty. It has improvements to make, but the eShop is a step up over its Wii equivalent. When it comes to digital strategy, Nintendo has been behind the curve in a number of respects, but improvements on 3DS bode well for the upcoming Wii U. It seems highly unlikely that Nintendo’s next home console digital store will make the same mistakes that have been outlined above, or at least not to the same degree as on the Wii Shop. There are arguments to be made for the importance of file size limits, solid quality checks and a sensible payment policy, and hopefully the balance will be adjusted and improved on Wii U, alongside a more dynamic, attractive store front. With the success of Wii, DS and, gradually, 3DS, Nintendo has a large demographic of gamers to attract with Wii U. Should it succeed and make its next console a sales hit, both Nintendo and smaller developers with a focus on digital titles will hopefully dust down, reach a middle ground, and try again. What do you think? Are there lessons to be learned from developer complaints about WiiWare? Has the 3DS eShop shown improvements in Nintendo’s policy, and do you think Wii U will get it right? Let us know in the comments below. More Stories User Comments (82) DarkEdi said: Why Nintendo doesn´t do a update 5.0? Ah, yes, it is the last year of the Wii. There isn´t a update since 2 years before. Another passed new: Nintendo week enden 2 weeks ago. It´s another sight about Wii decadence. Portista said: Well, it sounds like Nintendo has pretty harsh policies. It might be good in some cases, but for small developer's it might be hard. :\| Hyawatta said: Development Policy Improvements from WiiWare through eShop to Wii U I read about how upset Beamdog’s Trent Oster was with his experience on WiiWare, but I have also heard good things, from Renegade Kid’s Jools Watsham, about Nintendo’s eShop service in regards to how good the experience is for developers. It seems to me that Nintendo has changed their online service policies enough so that whatever faults Beamdog had with WiiWare will no longer apply to the 3DS and Wii U’s online services. However, Beamdog’s unwillingness to work with Nintendo anymore makes it seem as if nothing has changed. Do you know if the sales performance thresholds before payments of royalties policy has been changed? If so, what is the new policy? Does Nintendo allow developers to set their own prices? What is Nintendo’s policy for promoting online titles? Has Nintendo’s certification process improved? If so, then what are the improvements? Can you describe Nintendo’s online development process in terms of how developers earn money? I have seen write ups of the WiiWare process, but I have not seen much about the eShop process, especially concerning payments and royalties. Basically, I’m trying to figure out if Beamdog is being stupid by neglecting to work with Nintendo in the future based on what happened in the past or if their concerns are still legitimate. If we know what all of the policies are, then we can decide for ourselves if they are reassuring, reasonable, or restrictive. Thank you. ThomasBW84 said: @Hyawatta We can only comment on the eShop improvements that we can see, such as a more dynamic shop-front and a higher file-size limit. I strongly suspect that non-disclosure is in place for this platform too, and the only way WiiWare policies have come to light in recent months is from developers breaking cover. I'd rather not speculate too much on areas that are still unknown. You make a good point though, there have been some positive noises so far from developers who have been using eShop, so hopefully that is a sign of things to come. Raylax said: I get the distinct impression that Nintendo's quality control only aims to ensure peace of mind for themselves, not consumers or developers. Which makes business sense, but doesn't make for terribly good relations. Geonjaha said: I still think attention should be payed when any developer makes such claims, regardless of if you know them or play their games. If some developers find problems then more will realise them in the future, and if they're not fixed, it means less games for the platform, less support for the platform, and ultimately our loss as owners of the console in question. Rapadash6 said: Theres no question, in my mind, that Nintendo is the best developer in the world hands down. That being said, as far as the company as a publisher, well, there's a lot of room for improvement. Everything from their localization policies to the half baked Virtual Console support has shown that clearly they don't have other developers OR fans at the forefront of their decision making. We are still waiting for La Maluna, for example, and this is a game that's been finished for half a year. The frustration Beamdog and others are feeling towards Nintendo seems justified, based solely on how I see them treat the fans. Nintendo needs to wake up and start doing things differently. SKTTR said: 9 months of quality assurance, yeah sure! Beamdog, why don't you play through your own glitchy game first, before sending it in to Nintendo and waste their time again and again?! I think, after 9 months Nintendo just gave up arguing with Beamdog and released the freezing version of MDK2. However, I'd still buy this game because I can live with the occasional crashing and I loved MDK1 on the PS1 but I don't believe it will ever come to Europe. kkslider5552000 said: It isn't that Beamdog is in the wrong. It's that being whiny is the quickest way to make sure I don't care about your opinion anymore. "Mommy, I'm never going over to Nintendo's house again!" You're an adult. Grow up. Joshers744 said: One thing I never liked about the Wii shop was that I had to spend at least 20 bucks to download an old NES game. Sure I could use the rest of the points later, but I didn't want to spit out 20 bucks at one time when I didn't have to. They have at least improved this on the eShop for the 3DS. They really need to release more VC games on the 3DS though. Really disappointed in the lack of wanting to release hardly any Gameboy games, especially here in the US. Burning_Spear said: One thing that sticks out in Beamdog's situation is that it took nine months to work out all the bugs. How is that Nintendo's fault? I have no idea if a two-week turnaround is industry standard for bug-checking, but the fact that the process lasted nine months means bugs kept popping up. I can't see how Nintendo can be faulted for that, and, to its credit, I think the company should be commended for exercising in-house quality-control on third-party download titles. As much as people complain about the Wii being a shovelware console, imagine how much worse it would be if Nintendo weren't checking things in this manner. On the other two issues, I'm not an industry insider, so I don't know if 6,000 units is a reasonable sale minimum. But there definitely needs to be a minimum: It's Nintendo's way of saying, "Don't even think about trying to market bad or broken games to make a quick buck. Don't bother us unless you're serious." Of course, like everyone else, I'd like to see a bigger file-size limit, so I can't argue with that one. ThumperUK said: Who at Beamdog was held in a room by Nintendo with a gun to their head forcing their NDA and payment policies on them?? Answer: No-one. Yes, the Wii Shop aint great and the 40Mb limit is pretty pathetic, but 6000 sales globally is not exactly a difficult sales figure to achieve!! I bet Beamdog did NO marketing of the game themselves, just saw it on the Shop Channel and thought 'Well we'll just sit back and expect to see thousands of sales'. A two week turnaround on testing by Nintendo doesn't sound horrendous to me - what it does do is highlight how many times Nintendo rejected the game due to bugs and bad programming if it took 9 months!! No doubt the Nintendo testers weren't too unhappy when they saw the Twitter rant as I bet it was a nightmare for them to have to play for nine months. videojill said: Wii Shop is light years BEHIND the PSN Store and the Xbox Live Marketplace. I hate having to wait weeks to find the next update just be a single demo of a game, and that's it. No weekly new games (plural) and no weekly sales outside from Club Nintendo (and that takes 1 whole month for updates). Nintendo failed on Wii Shop. Ryno said: 6,000 copies must be sold before you see a dime? That is ridiculous. Does PSN and XBL have a minimum? Oh well, Beamdog's own fault for putting it on WiiWare in the first place. It's not like they didn't know about the policy. The_Fox said: To those saying requiring 6,000 sales before seeing any return isn't much of an issue: Keep in mind that numerous developers have stated that they're lucky to break 20,000 units sold on Wiiware. That makes it a pretty damn big issue. Rawk_Hawk said: I tend to agree with post #14 the Wii Ware is way behind the PSN. Although there are some exclusive Wii Ware games that I like, but they are few and far between now. The lack (or small amount) of demos is also very dissappointing compared to other services. I've purchased many games that I would have never considered on PSN thanks to demos being availible. The biggest plus about the Wii Shop is the Virtual Console and it feels like the most neglected over the past year and a half. Mk_II said: So basically they kept submitting buggy builds for nine months before Nintendo was satisfied. No good Quality Asurance on their part and they blame Nintendo? Wow, just wow. OldBoy said: TBH the QA testing is not Nintendo's fault. Bug finding/fixing isn't a quick thing.Its not like Nintendo can throw a lot of resource on QA testing a small indie game and Beamdog themselves should have been perfectly capable of producing a less buggy game before submitting it, surely. The 6000 copies issue is terrible though. Why would small companies want to take a risk like that if they can go on ios/android/XBLA/PSN without that stipulation. Madness by Nintendo.Surely a 500-1000 is more than enough for Nintendo to host the thing on the shop. The size limit is also ridiculous, but I suppose that is because the Wii lacks a Hard Drive. I think Nintendo are slowly improving this aspect though and hopefully WiiU will be the next big step forward. As ever though Nintendo will always do it their way and won't imitate other companies (for good or ill!). shingi_70 said: Smh really. Why will people defends nintendo even when they are clearly in the wrong. And to all the people scresminf quality control wiiware has the most shovelware of the 3 major download services. ecco6t9 said: Nothing wrong with a 40MB limit, it forces developers to be creative with space. Myx said: i have got no hopes at all that stiff nintendo will come at least one little bit out of their static state of dictatorship. this business model is so antique. it will sooner or later break their necks. it is not because i want them to fail but it's the rule of the market that will put them out of the spotlight. Corbs said: There's a reason Xbox Live Arcade is the "go to" place for most developers looking to release downloadable titles on game consoles. Hopefully Nintendo will make it more attractive for these smaller developers on the Wii U. :D theblackdragon said: @shingi: the 'quality control' people are talking about here isn't the quality of the games in terms of content, fun factor, or shovelware status, it's the quality of the code behind the games. That's all the 'Seal of Quality' has ever been, a guarantee that a given game will work as promised on their systems. Nintendo puts these games to the test in order to wring as many bugs as they possibly can out of 'em. Obviously they aren't perfect, but they've got their internal standards that must be met across the board, no questions asked, which levels the playing field. If it took them 9 months to get their game past Nintendo's testers, perhaps Beamdog needs to rethink what they deem as something worthy to be sent off for lotcheck. shingi_70 said: That makes no sense at all. Fez is a creative game and that's about 200mb. Skullgirls is really. Creative and is about 1GB. THE limit is bull. ejamer said: Wait... so a two week turn around for bug fixes and it took 9 months to clear certification? Surely these are just estimates, but that means the game failed certification roughly 18 times, and the delay is blamed on Nintendo? I'm betting that Nintendo never runs a full QA cycle during certification, but stops when they hit the first failure point and returns the code. This still seems like a large number of failures though. hydeks said: for beamdog to say "where not working with Nintendo anymore over one thing" is very childish and obviously a sign of them just prefering PC over Nintendo system. I can say that the WiiWare wasn't the greatest, but hey, gotta start somewhere, don'tcha? Flowerlark said: I agree that Wiiware has some ridiculous policies, especially the payment policy, however, I feel that Beamdog's complaints, while valid, were unprofessionally worded. madgear said: I'm not going to bother expressing my view on this again as it's already been said, but I am still curious about the Super Meat Boy file size. I wonder how much over the 40MB limit that game was - it'd be interesting to find out because if it was a few MB and Nintendo didn't make an exception then that's certainly a problem. Super Meat Boy is a fantastic game and Nintendo really should have worked with Team Meat to get it on the system and found a way around it. It's like turning down the chance to premier a classic movie because it runs a little long. scrubbyscum999 said: Just one of the three big things Nintendo needs to work on for the Wii U, Lots of power for the system, third party support, and Online in general. Like may things with online with Nintendo, needs major work. It doesn't bother me personally that much, but I too want a change. At the same time, Beamdog's comments really were overly harsh, and pretty unprofessional. If the Wii U becomes a big success with a great online system that fixes all the problems, they are going to look pretty foolish. In the end though, Nintendo has a lot to improve with the Wii U coming, but if they succeed in solving these problems they just might be rewarded. Linkstrikesback said: For a start, it's not 6000 worldwide. From what we've been leaked it's 6000 for North America alone. There is a seperate count for Europe (Another 3000, counted completely seperate from the NA count) and another for Japan, and probably more for other regions. The developer not being able to choose the game price is disgusting on Nintendos part. That, combined with the fact that the Nintendo NEVER has sales is pretty much a death sentence for any game that gets released on Wiiware now. DraculaX said: @Linkstrikesback Yeah, not doing sales is one reason why I have not purchased anything from the eShop (sorry, but that coin system just doesn't cut it). It would be really cool if Nintendo could do a weekly sale thing like PSN does, then maybe even some of that shovelware could get purchased. Chris720 said: I really don't see how this is entirely Nintendo's fault. Let me run it through for you... The Wii was never designed for WiiWare. Simple... it was a feature that was put into a system that doesn't have the memory nor a good shop. WiiWare failed because of the Wii's powerlessness. But you have to start somewhere, right? Everything else is entirely Beamdog's fault, if your going to send a faulty game for testing that has more bugs than I've had hot dinners then ofcourse it'll take 9 months. The 6,000 limit... that honestly can't be that hard! Surely Beamdog could've got the word out a bit more. The 40mb limit, I'd say Ninty was testing the download waters. Everything else is Beamdogs fault and they have to stop acting like children. It's YOUR game, YOU make it work and sell, not Nintendo! Torchwood said: Why exactly does Mighty Switch Force take up so much space? It isn't exactly jampacked with content or anything, and the graphics aren't amazing or anything.(I'm aware that this is a platformer. The graphics are good, just not anything that would take up 1/5 of a gigabyte) Odnetnin said: Despite the freezing issues I had with it, MDK2 on WiiWare was a superb game. There's no way that the developer didn't deserve to get paid anything for their work. Regarding Trent Oster's statements, however, I would never rule out working with a company EVER again because of one bad experience. Monkeh said: "Acknowledging these issues is not, as some may choose to believe, a rejection or betrayal of Nintendo" Well duh, but saying you won't work with Nintendo any more is! shingi_70 said: This is the tech industry starting out isn't a good excuse when your competition is at another level. Window's phone was considered an elegant os at the the time and lauded by the media. While I personally love the metro design language the hardware and other os features weren't up to snuff so I decided to go with android. Ren said: I don't understand why people think it's so "childish" or "mean" that they don't want to do games with Nintendo anymore. So what? they didn't say "they're big liars and we hate them forever" they just stated that they won't do it again because it was difficult and understandably annoying. Why is that so bad and mean? They don't feel like dealing with Nintendo's sometimes lame system, so they prefer to stick with the many other platforms that are easier to work with. would anyone here do differently when this is your lifes work and one of your sales outlets is just more trouble than it's worth? Cut your losses and go with a better operation that's readily available. I see no issue here. If Nintendo does things differently later, maybe they'll reconsider, but they don't owe us or anyone else any special promises, and they surely could have been a lot less mature about it. Aviator said: @ThumperUK So you could easily make a game without getting paid by the company you're making for and sell 6,000 copies. I'd like to see that. @madgear The PC version of Super Meat Boy was at launch (from memory) about 350mbs. How is what Beamdog said childish? Most of its employee's probably have family, bills to pay, mouths to feed. Nintendo's policy of no pay till 6000 is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, Beamdog are some-what responsible for the 9-month certification, but you have to think. Do they really want to spend a whole amount of time on a game that may actually make zero profit? I'm not sure if someone said it here or on the other news post, but do we know how much of the 1000 points I payed for the game go to the developers and Nintendo? ThomasBW84 said: @Monkeh That line was included (not that you quoted the whole line) because some, probably a minority, do appear to have an attitude of defending Nintendo and WiiWare at all costs. That's their prerogative, but to those who do reject criticisms of WiiWare, I was making the point that supporting a company such as Nintendo doesn't have to mean shooting down any dissenters. I'm passionate about Nintendo and, on a personal level, hope for its continued success, but that doesn't mean I won't consider the negatives and mistakes that the company makes. rayword45 said: I've owned pretty much only Ninty consoles after the PS2. And I CANNOT fathom how anybody can defend Nintendo here. 6000 units until pay is the worst. That's a complete joke. If I spend time developing a game, and get NOTHING in return (the platform (WiiWare) isn't the most advertised) I'd be pissed. I hope that number is completely different for DSiWare since there are some pretty good obscure games on an already obscure platform there. I'm pretty sure selling retail is a safer bet. Secondly, defending the 40MB limit is also nonsense. I can't get a good quality album download in that limit. Creativity and quality should not be limited by this (This was pretty obviously fixed on 3DS, however, so props to Nintendo). I cannot comment on the certification system due to lack of knowledge. However, it's confusing how some pretty good games (La-Mulana) get rejected while stuff like Play With Birds and Fireplacing make it through. I also can't say much about the sales info policies. Slapshot said: For those who've stated that the 6k limit is nothing, it's been highly publicized that the majority of Wii owners' have never even connected their system to the internet. On PSN/XBLA, this limit is a walk in the park to achieve, but on WiiWare, there's not enough systems connected, and there's little to no coverage of the games releases outside of Nintendo oriented websites. This creates a huge risk to the developer and I'm surprised that anyone has worked on games for the system. Developing games cost real money to the developer and having to potential to sell thousands of copies of your game and not receive a dime for it is poor business standards, there's just no way around it. Both Microsoft and Sony have programs in place that will fund these small developers projects and publish their games for them, or allow for self publishing. I know that Sony's PubFund program will even pay the developer, regardless if their game sales or not, which is hardly ever on either of the systems, because of the amount of daily users. 3DS is a small step forward to achieving where Nintendo needs to be in the digital market. If they really want to stand even with their competition in this realm and keep the third party developers around, they've got a lot of work to do. Otherwise, things will stay just as they are now — which isn't bad, as they're doing great — but they're a long way from getting core gamers solely on their console(s). BattleBorn said: I appreciate Nintendo Life's stance on this matter, but it's not gonna do anything to change minds. It doesn't matter that MDK2 is regarded as a funny and excellent action/adventure game by anyone who's actually played it... it's shovelware simply because it "didn't sell" and the WiiWare publisher (who only ported what was Bioware's game — yes, BIOWARE) had the gall to criticize Nintendo. Funny that these exact same people cry and scream that "PEOPLE ARE SHEEPLE" whenever anyone brings up the 20M+ Call of Duty yearly sales or the 500M+ Angry Birds downloads. You could argue Beamdog is being unfair for dismissing all future Nintendo development because of a (soon-to-be) previous ecosystem. At the same time, it's Nintendo's responsibility to aggressively reach out to all potential developers and prove that they've improved their digital strategy and policies. The fact that this event happened indicates that Nintendo hasn't — and that's very bad news. NeoShinobi said: I really can't blame them for these complaints, but I find it kinda hard to be sympathetic towards them when they choose to release a game for WiiWare, which is a complete dead-end service. I find it hard to believe that they were unaware of that. Betagam7 said: Now we see why Nintendo's e-shops have prices permanently frozen in carbonyte. We used to think it was ignorance of business practices and marketing that prevented Nintendo offering sales or adjusting prices for its older games. Now we see the true reason: By keeping prices static Nintendo reduces the liklihood of units being sold, thus reducing the liklihood of hitting the magical 6000 figure, thus reducing the liklihood of having to pay developers a penny for titles that have raked in thousands of sales for Nintendo. The problem with a corrupt, cynical business practice like this is that small devs are only going to fall for it once. The larger problem is that it will reduce those putting their games on the system to big names and shovelware trash. Does the VC have a similar policy? Why did C64 support dry up? Yes, it's all making sense now. Slapshot said: @Betagam7 I don't think, or better yet, I truly hope that isn't the reason there aren't sales on Nintendo's digital storefronts, but that does raise a very interesting question too: Wouldn't weekly price drops increase sales and help the developers to make some money on their games? This is an angle that I hadn't thought about, and honestly, it's one that doesn't help the situation one bit. :( @NeoShinobi Actually, if they had gotten their game approved earlier, which they clearly understand isn't all Nintendo's fault, they would have landed in a string of decent WiiWare titles that have sold pretty well. I'm sure it would have likely helped them to gain a few more sales. MDK and MDKII are both great titles that are truly worth playing through! gyyrro said: Beamdog cutting all relations with a major gaming company just as they are about to release a new console with far more capabilities after one bad incedent which was partly their fault.. I'm sure that counts as "smart" somewere... md1500 said: Thing is, I felt sorry for him at first - then he started all that nonsense about "Wii owners only buy Wii Sports", "the Wii is a toy, not a gaming console".... Burning_Spear said: The Wii is a toy. So are the PS3 and the XBox. But he's wrong about Wii Sports. It was packaged with the console, so most of us didn't have to buy it. mamp said: I can understand why Beamdog is upset, the 6000 sales number is ridiculous at least for Wiiware. The Wiishop is horrible there is no game advertisement and people don't care for it. Most websites don't even bother reviewing Wiiware games but they review XBLA and PSN games I was even mad at the fact that gamespot reviews angry birds but they won't review e shop games. Not to mention the Wiishop is not that user friendly when compared to the e-shop and the e-shop is just a simple version of the XBLA market. Most people don't even connect their Wii online because online connectivity is more of a sencondary component for the Wii. I don't know why people say Beamdog is childish for not wanting to work with Nintendo again if anything it's called common sense. If you went to work with someone and they didn't pay you after the work you did, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be stupid enough to work for them again. Even if Nintendo is a Major game company they are not the ONLY game company out there and if they keep this bad business practice it'll just mean less games for them and more games for others which in the end is bad for them. Things have changed and good games don't just come on discs anymore, indie devs are out there and some of them are making amazing games that sell and which Nintendo needs to take advantage of. I will admit though the way he spoke about the Wii was pretty immature and he should know better than that. TooManyToasters said: Nothing lengthy to be said here, Wii Shop had faults, eShop improved, hence eShop delivered. One thing I've learned about what's called quality assurance, (through dealing with customers in my job which is not video game related since this is not primarily a video game store I work at but a whole department store, but more with loading store merchandising and helping customers) is that you never can really satisfy everyone's needs, like finding the EXACT solution (product for customers) they're looking for, only be nice to them and provide the best service possible. I would guess the same applies between Nintendo and small developers as it also would customers, but on a far more technical scale. But look, if you're going to have one guy every so often get all verbal with WiiWare limitations and decide to improve upon that for Wii U, that does not throw out any chance that Mr. Oster aka Batty McPants will still complain about the same thing or move on to something else to complain about. If you're like me with customers that's called being a rotten apple. Do whatever you will with the rotten apple, just be nice and politely rid of him, then onto the next person, just the way it works. If you'd rather be like Batty McPants up here, however, you're totally missing the point of quality assurance. Hardy83 said: Hard to believe there are still people willing to blindly defend Nintendo on this, and attack a developer for being a "baby" and "whiner" when he's quoted saying his dev house screwed up too. I love when someone said both said sucks, but people say "No just YOU suck." I remember when people yelled at me and other people for saying WiiWare and Nintendo's digital service was crap within the first year of the Wii. Saying that it was amazing. A lot of opinions finally caught up with reality, but I guess there's some who haven't accepted it yet. WiiWare was a disaster, and any good game released on it was overshadowed by just how bad the service and infrastructure was, which is a complete shame considering some of the games. DSiWare was even worse, if you could believe that (especially when Reggie was quoted saying that DSiWare is about QUALITY not QUANTITY, when in fact it was neither and Nintendo was one of the worst offenders for it too), and while I think 3DS is vastly improved, it's still VERY bad compared to things like Steam, GOG and PSN. That's just from the consumer view, I have no idea how bad or good it is from a developer, some say it's good, some say it's horrible, some are in the middle. All I know is that the game makers should get a cut day one of the release, no some minimum sale to get money crap. This isn't the shopping channel. If any other digital service has this (even ones I've mentioned) then I'll hate them too. Nintendo still has a long way to go before I will personally find their digital service/infrastructure acceptable. The Wii Us RELEASE (not details) will probably change or cement my view, but yeah, Nintendo has a long way to go. Tip: Sales help Nintendo. SethNintendo said: You state that most it is widely known that most Wii owners don't connect their system to the internet. I believe you are deeply mistaken. Would the percentage be lower than the HD consoles? Probably but not by too much. You are forgetting about Netflix and Hulu support. You have to connect to the Wii Shop channel to download the channel thus connecting your Wii to the internet. If you really care I can bring in the Netflix studies that shows that plenty of Netflix users use the Wii to stream movies. RantingThespian said: I think Nintendo has learned many lessons. The E-Shop is actually quite pleasant to use, and the gamers are getting better and bigger. I expect huge changes with the Wii U. Wolfenstein83 said: Quick, everyone download a copy of MDK2, right now! (actually maybe I will) Anywho, Nintendo has always had a sort of bad rep when it comes to making the third party devs happy, ever since the NES days, but like most people are saying, things are getting better. I think Beamdog shouldn't be so quick to jump ship just yet, although I can certainly understand the reason for their frustration. From what I've on the 3DS I've think they've got it people FINALLY no but you know seriously all they have to do is do basicilly what they did on the 3DS just make sure it's smooth, looks nice, easy for dev's to put stuff on it give them as much FREEDOM as possible and infact I want to see a much bigger presence of indie developed games to reveal the 360 and PC. lex0plex said: @ rayword45 Dauntless said: I'm not going to download a copy because I already have the game for PS2. At one point in time I even had the Dreamcast version. I still have the 1st game for PS1. MDK2 is still a fun game and I recommended it, though I don't know how good the Wii port. This game took up more than 40MB when it was released on CD. Sakura_Moonlight2421 said: I really don't care. I hardly go on the Wii shop unless I want a game that I've been putting off buying for several months to years. In truth I still want to buy Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord, now bare in mind that that game has been out since July 2009. I have just been too lazy to get Wii shop points and hooking up my Wii to my now fast internet. shrugs Frankly developers could stand to advertise a little more to get my attention on the Wii shop. JimLad said: Take a look at Journey for the PlayStation Network... Now take a look at Trials Evolution for Xbox Live Arcade... That's how far behind Nintendo are. MrDanger88 said: MAB said: Nice simple fun games is what I like about WiiWare like Motoheroz, Lostwinds, Pokemon, Sonic 4, Excitebike, Bomberman Blast, Mega Man 9+10, TV Show King 1+2, TNT Racers, Final Fantasy CC, Tetris Party, Onslaught, Aya and the Cubes, Gnomz, Jam City, EscapeVektor, Bit.Trip, Lit, And yet it moves, Hydroventure, Dive Medes Island, Cave Story, Max Magic Marker, Jett Rocket, Reel Fishing, ThruSpace, HoopWorld, Art Style series, Bearsworth Manor, Blaster Master OD, Phoenix Wright, WarioWare, Castlevania Rebirth, Dracula UA, Monkey Island, Frogger, Mecha Wars, NyxQuest, Arkanoid, Gradius Rebirth, Puzzle Bobble plus, Water Warfare, Rainbow Islands, Adventure Island, Bubble Bobble plus, Texas hold em tournament, Snowboard Riot, Strong Bad, World of Goo, Alien Crush Returns, Star Soldier. The list goes on and on and we are still hopeful for Retro City Rampage, La Mulana and this Micro Machines racer coming soon. These great games are 40mb and under with no complaining from developers. As you can see WiiWare has given us alot for a service everyone is writing off :) roll on Wii U roll on baby. Chris720 said: @Sony_70 What has Window's Phone have to do with this? The Wii was Nintendo's first verge into online gaming and media downloads. Everyone has to start off somewhere and build it into something better. Don't forget, Ninty never follows the crowd and does it their own way, whether their customers like it or not. The WiiWare platform was a good idea but handled poorly and launched on a system that didn't have the power to process big meaty games due to its limited memory size. Nintendo has learned from this mistake and they've gone a long way in correcting that with the 3DS and the Wii U. To be honest, I think your bashing for the sake of bashing. SKTTR said: For developers, all their WiiWare games should get another chance on Wii U, just as DSiWare games are now part of the 3DS eShop. For consumers WiiWare (and VC) games should be transferable to Wii U. And I really hope for the future that developers will test their own games until they're able to complete them before submitting them to Nintendo! It can't be so hard to play through your own game at least once before releasing it to us critical gamers! There are a few good WiiWare games that can't be 100% completed like And Yet It Moves and Dive, and I heard rumours about Bubble Bobble Plus! too, and there are a few pretty good games that could have been more fun if they had no freezing issues (MDK2, Family&Friends Party, Strong Bad, Monkey Island, Lead the Meerkats, Max & the Magic Marker, etc.) This is the most important thing to me to make the service better. More freedom to allow developers updating their games. Personally I found enough gems to keep me satisfied over the years, but that doesn't mean other people new to Wii know anything about it: Of course Nintendo has to push advertising for their DL platforms nonstop from now on. Wii U eShop should be a permanent "in-your- face" in the main menu of Wii U. k8sMum said: @demonic said: Don't forget, Ninty never follows the crowd and does it their own way, whether their customers like it or not. somewhere along the line, nintendo needs to show that they do care what their customers like. reggies' smug mug doesn't cut it anymore. Slapshot said: @SethNintendo The last numbers I recall seeing has the Wii at about a 10-20% online connectivity, compared to the HD consoles 70+% connectivity rate. ;) SethNintendo said: While this short article only deals with US I can safely assume that the online figures for each system are close to owners in Japan and Europe. "By comparison, only 54 percent of Wiis have been connected to the internet," The Nielsen study just makes it even more difficult to understand the true number of Wii systems that have been online. "27 percent on the Wii" This number is closer to your guess but it is still a lot closer to 30% than 10 or 20%. If I had to guess I would say at least 1/3 Wii owners have connected their system to the net at one point in time which would mean about 30+ million systems. kdognumba1 said: The Wiiware had some serious problems in every area. They had to make a completely separate channel to display the kind of information that you'd expect to be in the shop (the Nintendo Channel) which made browsing the Wii Shop one of the most tedious and cumbersome online shopping experiences out there. Furthermore, the lack of demo support for retail and vc games and the limited amount of demo's that would go away over time for the Wiiware was extremely bad. With those mentioned problems and the ones mentioned by Beamdog, a lot had to be changed. Luckily, the eShop delivered BIG TIME on this. Personally, using the eShop, I feel it has features that make the service right on par with the top tier online stores making the shopping experience quick and simple, keeping people up to date with what's new and what's hot, and helping promote developers games. There's not much I can find wrong with it and quite frankly, if the Wii U is only going to improve on this, I don't see myself worried or complaining about its online store and really can't see where developers and publishers would be worried or complaining about it either. Slapshot said: @SethNintendo It's been awhile since I saw those numbers, so I'm sure they've gained a bit since then. But I do want to say that the 10% number was an estimate for Wii owners who've purchased something off of the WiiWare service (not free services/updates), but of course, these types of things are always taken with a grain of salt with Nintendo, as they refuse to release sales data on their digital services. ;) DrDaisy said: I'm sick of these arguments of how they'll get better next time. I don't like waiting for "the next system" to make improvements, I want improvements here and now. Refusing to fix problems or make improvements until they release their next systems is a big problem with Nintendo, one I'm really sick of. I don't want any more of this "we'll do better next time" crap! Do better this time! Sean_Aaron said: Personally I think Nintendo overreached with WiiWare. We have seen some great games for it and I own quite a few, but I think that they probably should have stuck with the Virtual Console for the download service If they didn't have the infrastructure to deliver a comparable service to that offered on other platforms. I still think little of BeamDog's moans - they signed the contract and WiiWare had been around long enough that they should have known the risks. I think their opinion is fair, but honestly if you cannot accept the downside then don't sign the contract and go elsewhere with your product. If Nintendo sold them a bill of goods they'd have a case for legal damages, so it's pretty clear this is mostly sour grapes. I do hope that Wii-U will have a better online shop, but if small developers decide to stay away that's not going to keep me from buying the system. rayword45 said: @MadAussieBloke Those games were good IN SPITE of the 40mb limit, not because of it. Some games were forced to compress audio in order to fit all of the content (Helix was originally to have only 12 songs). Others had content cut out (Sonic 4: Episode 1) Does anyone know about DSiWare sales/payment policy? Leave A Comment	http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/04/talking_point_lessons_to_be_learned_from_wiiware_and_beamdog	<urn:uuid:c3eb9b25-7aab-49ee-a286-a0e929555401>	en	0.968803	0.054584
Newletters and Alerts Buy now from Random House • Evening • Written by Susan Minot • Format: Trade Paperback \| ISBN: 9780375700262 • Our Price: $15.95 • Quantity: See more online stores - Evening Buy now from Random House • Evening • Written by Susan Minot • Format: eBook \| ISBN: 9780307758781 • Our Price: $11.99 • Quantity: See more online stores - Evening Buy now from Random House • Evening • Written by Susan Minot Read by Kathryn Walker • Format: Abridged Audiobook Download \| ISBN: 9780739344095 • Our Price: $9.98 • Quantity: See more online stores - Evening Select a Format: • Book • eBook • Audiobook Written by Susan MinotAuthor Alerts: Random House will alert you to new works by Susan Minot List Price: $11.99 On Sale: September 22, 2010 Pages: 288 \| ISBN: 978-0-307-75878-1 Published by : Vintage Knopf Audio Editions Read by Kathryn Walker On Sale: May 01, 2007 ISBN: 978-0-7393-4409-5 More Info... Visit RANDOM HOUSE AUDIO to learn more about audiobooks. Evening Cover Share & Shelve: • Add This - Evening • Email this page - Evening • Print this page - Evening Categories for this book Tags for this book (powered by Library Thing) death (12) cancer (8) maine (7) memory (6) new england (5) contemporary (4) » see more tags » hide A new lens passed over everything she saw, the shadows moved on the wall like skeletons handing things to each other. Her body was flung back over a thousand beds in a thousand other rooms. She was undergoing a revolution, she felt split open. In her mattress there beat the feather of a wild bird. Where were you all this time? she said. Where have you been? I guess far away. Yes you were. Too far away. They sat in silence. You know you frightened me a little, she said. At the beginning. You did. He smiled at that. You looked as if you didn't need anyone, she said. But those are the ones who need the most, he said. Don't you know that? I do now, she said. Too late. Never too late to know something, he said. Maybe not, she said. But too late to do any good. She lifted the yellow suitcase and banged it against her leg. She dragged it over the polished floor. The ceiling of Grand Central towered above her with arches and glass panes and squares of sunlight. She was not late and did not have to hurry. The clerk in the window bowed his forehead like a priest in confession and pushed her ticket through. Across the great domed room she spotted a redcap with a cart and though she usually would have carried her bag to save money decided this was a special occasion. She was on her way to a wedding. She signaled to him. The redcap flung her suitcase onto his cart. Whoever you're going to meet, he said, he's a lucky guy. The heat in New York had been terrible and the air underground at the gate was heavy and close. When the train came out of the tunnel she saw thunderheads turning the sky yellow and grey. The rain started, ticking the window with scratches then pouring over it in streams. Crowds of cat-o'-nine-tails surged in a wave as the train blew past. By the time they reached Providence the rain had stopped and it was hot again with a hot wind blowing in the open doors. The engine shut off and they waited in the station. No new passengers got on. It was as if the world had paused on this late morning in July. She held her book loosely and watched out the window. The station in Boston was shadowed in scaffolding dark as a cave with bands of light on the paneled benches and few travelers. The redcap who took her bag was young and did not say a word. He pushed a contraption with a bad wheel and had trouble steering through the door. She came out of the damp entranceway into the brightness of the turn-around beyond where she saw among the parked cars the dark green MG. The doors were open and she saw in front Buddy Wittenborn and in the driver's seat Ralph Eastman and a third person with his back to her. The person was standing with one foot up on the running board. When she got close Ralph caught sight of her and jumped out of the car and Buddy looked over with a lazy smile. Only when she was near did the back turn around and the long leg come off the running board and she saw the man's face. He was wearing squarish dark glasses so she couldn't see his eyes. She noticed his mouth was full though set in a particular firm way, the combination of which affected her curiously. She felt as if she'd been struck on the forehead with a brick. The person's face seemed lit from within. Ralph Eastman gave her a kiss on the cheek asking how was the career girl from New York and Buddy Wittenborn slid off the front seat and hugged her and ducked back turning his head and pushing his glasses back on his nose. He was wearing a disheveled shirt buttoned up wrong and a belt outside the belt loops and even with the beanie on his head looked as always handsome. Ralph tipped the redcap, taking charge of the bags. She was trying to look at any other place other than at the person in the sunglasses. Oh, Buddy said. This is Arden. She was far enough away from the person that not to shake his hand was not rude. She didn't dare shake his hand. Hi, she said and smiled brightly. Her handbag fell to the ground. That's Ann, Buddy said. Hello Ann. The person had a deep voice which came from somewhere deep in his chest. We've been waiting for you, Ann. It was also kind of rough. She caught a lipstick rolling and looked up. The person was not smiling. She blushed and looked back down. Am I that late? We stopped for a while in Providence . . . She felt the black glasses facing her. Ralph slammed the back hatch. A late train has been figured into the calculations. He's sure we'll miss the ferry, Buddy said. On the contrary, just what I plan to avoid. So let's go. The person was walking away from the car. He bent to pick something off the ground. Harris, Ralph called, starting the car. The person came back on long slow legs and got into the backseat beside Ann. It was an MG station wagon and the windows tilted in. He held up some keys attached to a Saint Christopher medal. These yours? he said. God, Ann said, taking her keys. Thank you. That was idiotic. She looked straight at him. Which is your name? They both are. In what order? Which is better? The face was placid and she could not read the eyes behind the glasses. I don't know. They're both good. No, the person said and he smiled for the first time. One is always better. It was 1954 and Ann Grant was twenty-five years old. They drove north. She liked being the girl in a car with three boys. They drove through Revere where the water was purple at the shore and the highway was raised above the tract houses, past gas stations with enormous signs shaped like horses, and miniature golf courses with waterfalls and orange dinosaurs. They passed motels with teepee cabins and restaurants shaped like pagodas and restaurants shaped like barns with plastic cows outside. They exited to Danvers winding past steeples and fudge stores with pink script writing back onto the highway where green countryside flickered out the window behind the person's profile. His name was Harris, Ralph was the one to say, Harris Arden. She sat beside Harris Arden in the backseat and they talked and now and then he turned toward her. He'd grown up in Virginia, was born in Turkey, had lived in Switzerland. His father was a diplomat, raised in St. Louis, his mother was Turkish which explained his coloring. Harris Arden lived in Chicago now, he said, and worked in a hospital. Then Ann Grant realized who he was. He was Doctor R, Carl's friend, whom he'd served with in Korea. But it wasn't Doctor R as she had thought but Doctor Ar for Arden. She had pictured someone older. You're the musician, she said. Not so much anymore. Isn't your band playing at the wedding? What's left of it. And you're a doctor too? Buddy said, prying open a beer with a Swiss Army knife. Who wants a cold one? No one took him up on it. The person didn't seem to hear and stared out the window. Ann sings, Ralph said, facing forward driving. Does she? The person looked interested. Just for fun, Ann said. Just in little places. In New York little places are pretty big. These really are little, she said. It's not even my job. Ann's a pretty good singer, Buddy said. I'd like to hear her sing, said the person in the sunglasses looking ahead. Have you moved her? She was sitting up this morning. Mrs. Lord. The smell of rose water. I'm sorry I'm late, said Ann Lord. We stopped for a long time in Providence. Mrs. Lord, you have a visitor. Ann Lord opened her eyes. No he's not, she said. It wasn't a visitor, it was Dr. Baker. Afternoon Ann. Mercifully Dick Baker did not shout at her. His sleeves were rolled above the elbows, a stethoscope hung around his neck. Afternoon, she said. I look a fright. Nonsense, he said. You've never looked a fright. He came in every other day. Dick Baker was a friend of the Lords' and used to come often to dinner parties when Oscar was still alive--they had entertained more then--and as he held Ann Lord's wrist he remembered once watching her leave the dining room and disappear down the dark hallway toward the kitchen. She'd been wearing a dress with a pink sheen to it and the sheen had retained the light after her legs and arms and head had disappeared in the gloom. He checked her pulse against his watch, remembering the sheen. After a while she said, Where am I? You're in Cambridge in the house on Emerson Street. His dry fingers pressed near her ears. He wasn't looking at her, feeling around the way doctors do, as if they're blind. I don't mean that, she said, fixing him in her gaze. That's not what I mean. You're doing fine. He had bent over the beds of many patients, but it was always different when you knew the person. It had an extra dimension to it. Dr. Baker was not a spiritual man. He considered himself a practical man. His job was simply to figure out what the heck the problem was and do his damndest to fix it and if he couldn't then move on and hope with the next one he could. He had been as straightforward with her as he was able. The treatment might give her some time but as far as curing this type of cancer . . . no that wasn't likely. There was no doubt about it when you knew the person the job changed. He felt less effectual when he knew more of the person's life. Not that he knew a great deal about Ann Lord. She was one of those mysterious women, not that he knew a great deal about women either. He knew she'd been married three times--the children came from the different husbands--and there was a hint of a racy life singing in nightclubs in New York which Dick Baker had never heard her mention and then that tragedy with her son. . . . His wife Bertie said Ann Lord was just like other women, maybe a little more stylish if you had to say something, but like other women. Bertie frankly found her a little distant and cold. Dr. Baker found them all mysterious to a point and Ann Lord had her own brand of mystery. She always looked well turned out and was a little cool then she would surprise you with a little jolt of something witty and inviting. It was nearly flirtation and challenged something in him. Of course he did not relate that to his wife. He knew that much about women. How long Dick, she said. It was not the first time she'd asked. They didn't always want to know. More often than not they didn't want to know the truth. Dick. Her hand took his sleeve. Dr. Baker glanced back at the nurse who gave a sort of nod and cast her glance to the side. He leaned down. Let's just say you won't see the leaves change this year, he said. When's Nina coming? She can't come till Friday. She's in rehearsal. I'd think she'd want to be here, said Aunt Grace. Constance has come all the way from Paris. I'd think Nina could make it from New York. Mother understands, Margie said. I hope she's right. I think so, Constance said. Fergus, down. Fergus, stop bothering Constance. She thinks she's a person, Aunt Grace explained, gazing fondly at her terrier. I just hope Nina doesn't regret it later. It's Nina's big break supposedly, Margie said. There'll be another break, said Aunt Grace. If she's good. Something else will come along. Your mother won't. Aunt Grace was an unlikely ally of Ann Lord's. Her younger brother had been Ann's second husband and when Ted Stackpole left her a widow Grace had stepped in to help. Having no family of her own she had the space to do it. She had never married and lived alone with her dog. She'll be here this weekend, Margie said. Let's hope Ann is lucid. What do you mean? She's been lucid. So far, said Aunt Grace mysteriously. When Teddy came downstairs he looked as if he'd been away on a long trip. He's been up there an awful lot, Aunt Grace said. I hope he can handle it. He's doing fine, Constance said. So different from his father, said Aunt Grace. Teddy was Ted Stackpole's son. His father couldn't stand sick people. She lay on her back staring up at the canopy. Her thoughts went round and round and it was like spinning staring up at the trees the way she used to when she was young. She could not focus or stop or hold on to a thought for very long. She watched things blur by and now and then a bright light like the sun flashed through the leaves. She saw the water lying in lozenge shapes in the marshes past Portland and a face like a mask with dark glasses on it. He was asking her where she worked. Where . . . she could not remember. It was either the bookstore or the auction house or doing errands for Mrs. Havemeyer or cataloguing for Mr. Stein. She remembered the plaid shirt Buddy Wittenborn had been wearing and the rattle of the MG with the windows open and how the summer light threw a fuzzed screen over the trees. She saw a tilted field of purple lupin, a sign which said Free Beets Monday but she could not remember which job she'd been at the day before, the jobs were all folded together, or which little apartment she'd been in, they were folded together too, the one on Sixty-eighth Street with the bay window and geranium, the one with the slanted floor above Madison, there was a punch-out clock in the basement of Scribners', a navy wool jacket she wore, the slippery rugs in Mrs. Havemeyer's foyer, smoke hanging in the air at Sling's, Fiona fishing an onion out of a martini glass, the streets Sunday morning Fifth Avenue deserted . . . it all floated by, random and nearly transparent. They were the props of her life but she had no more sense of them than one does for the stage scenery of a play one saw ages ago then forgot. No doubt at the time they affected her, stirred some reaction, irritated or pleased her, but now most of them gave off neither heat nor cold and she watched them drop into the gaping dark hole of meaningless things she had not forgotten, things one level up from the far vaster place where lay all the unremembered things. Now vivid before her was the sight of a road narrowing up a hill with humps of trees on either side like a gate and the frame of a windshield thrumming and the back of Ralph Eastman's tidy haircut being blown in fingerprint gusts and Buddy swigging from his beer, lips sideways. The car was moving forward but encased in memory it seemed still and suspended, as if the configuration in the car, the person beside her with his elbow resting on the window, his hand dangling, the skin darker at the knuckles, the window framing a sky of indistinct clouds and tall grasses flashing by, as if it were a delicately rendered structure wired and bolted together reflecting mirror-like the configuration of her heart. She opened her eyes not knowing where she was. The room had gotten dark. The pain rose in her and she remembered. That's right, this is what she was now. In her sixty-five years Ann Lord had kept herself busy and was not particularly reflective but now forced to lie here day after day she found herself visited by certain reflections. Life would not hold any more surprises for her, she thought, all that was left was for her to get through this last thing. But her eyes were as sharp as ever and she saw everything that went by. She knew the room. It had been her room for some time. She had known other rooms and lived in other houses and been in other countries but this was the last room and she knew what was coming to her in it. It was coming to her slowly and the room remained indifferent. The bedposts rose up with notched pinecones at the end and the narrow desk stood there shut with the key in the keyhole and on the bureau were the silver frames with her children in little squares and little ovals. The windows faced two ways, toward the beech tree and the high fence with spear tips separating it from the next yard and the near corner facing down to the end of the garden and lawn and all the time she felt the engine chugging quietly beneath her manufacturing pain ceaselessly. It was not going fast enough. She wanted it to speed up but whenever she urged it forward the effort only bound her faster to life. So she pretended she wasn't trying, pretended she was being borne along at whatever speed the wheels wanted to take her, pretended indifference. She ought to be good at pretending, she thought, she'd had a lifetime of doing it. Then she saw in the murky light the tombstone shape of a large bird sitting on the windowsill. It looked like an owl or a hawk. When it lifted to fly away it spread its wings and flapped once and glided out on stiff wings which seemed held up by string. Its round heavy body soared upward and she watched it with a beating heart till the canopy above her intervened and the bird was blocked from her sight. So she had them remove the canopy. Constance and Margie rolled off the white ruffled cover while she sat tilted but erect in the armchair by the window in her Dior nightgown. Constance had done her hair like Empress Josephine with gold string and Margie looked like a gypsy with her long skirt and tangled hair. They clapped the wooden slats together like Chinese instruments and yanked up the bowed pieces bridging the posts. When she resumed her position in bed the room had opened up and she could see more. There were not so many things open to her now and she was not going to miss the few which were. She could see the upper windows and the upper walls and the whole of the ceiling. She felt herself being drawn up. She left behind the making of plans and the wondering about the future and a strange anticipation visited her. Something was calling to her. She heard soft paws crossing the floor above her. A blur passed by the window, a cloud of fidgeting butterflies. She smelled sea water, she smelled burnt sugar. Someone was making a cake. The sound of fingernails scraped the wainscoting behind the bamboo bookshelf. She scanned the shelves of her life. First she was Ann Grant then Phil Katz's wife then Mrs. Ted Stackpole then Ann Lord. Bits of things swam up to her, but what made them come? Why for instance did she remember the terrace at Versailles where she'd visited only once, or a pair of green and white checkered gloves, a photograph of city trees in the rain? It only demonstrated to her all she would forget. And if she did not remember these things who would? After she was gone there would be no one who knew the whole of her life. She did not even know the whole of it! Perhaps she should have written some of it down . . . but really what would have been the point in that? Everything passed, she would too. This perspective offered her an unexpected clarity she nearly enjoyed, but even with this new clarity the world offered no more explanation for itself than it ever had. They drove past houses set up on swollen banks, houses with four windows in front and four on the side with dark shutters against the clapboard, houses with porches, sometimes with American flags. They talked about music and found themselves in agreement on a number of small points of taste which Ann Grant found surprising but which the person did not seem to. In Waldoboro they stopped for lunch at Moody's Diner which had green booths and Formica tables edged in aluminum. Ralph refused the clam roll fearing poison. Buddy had the meatloaf special and a hotdog and piece of pie. Harris Arden she remembered ordered a hamburger and black coffee. When his plate arrived the sunglasses came off. He put them on the table. Ann looked instinctively away as one was taught to if there was an eclipse of the sun. Then she looked back. His eyes were very light which was a surprise with the caramel cast of skin, between light grey and blue. They squinted as if the world were too bright. He bit into his hamburger and chewed and the eyes looked for an instant at her then out the window. It was as if someone had pierced her chest. She felt it in her toes. It was a marvelous feeling. She picked up her grilled cheese with no appetite whatsoever. Sitting in the diner among the dark shadows and gleaming curves with the bright day outside Ann Grant felt as if she were both a stranger to herself and more herself than she'd ever been. Her elbow lay on the table, the door swung open to the kitchen, the pine shadows darkened the back window, all was dense with meaning. For no reason that she could name she was overcome with a sense of destiny. Her body carried the conviction more than her mind, the sensation came over her slowly that something important was happening, there was a decidedly new quality to everything around her, things were sharper and brighter, the air amplified sound. She had not yet pinpointed the change to her having met this person, she was being too pleasantly carried along to need to name it. But something made her feel as if she were floating and it had begun the moment she'd seen the person's face. You forgot, she said. I never forgot. I didn't. Well, she said. Don't be like that. How would I know you never forgot? You should have known. How? How was I ever to know? Ann, he said and took her hand. Forgetting, remembering . . . why should I care? I couldn't forget you, he said. What difference does it make anyway? she said. It makes a difference. I don't know. You made a difference, he said. You changed my life. And I never got to see it, she said. Your life. I never got to see your life. Nothing's perfect, he said. No, she said. They were both smiling. Susan Minot\|Author Q&A About Susan Minot Susan Minot - Evening Photo © Huger Foote Susan Minot's first novel, Monkeys, was published in a dozen countries and received the Prix Femina Étranger in France. She is the author of Rapture, Lust & Other Stories, Folly, Evening, and Poems 4 A.M., and wrote the screenplay for Bernardo Bertolucci's Stealing Beauty. She lives on an island in Maine. Author Q&A Q: The complex concept of family--structure, strength, dysfunction, history--is an important element in your work. Can you describe the family dynamic in Evening? A: Families are endlessly fascinating. We all have one, and they have a great impact on who we are and what we do--Freudian as that is. Crisis and death light up a family from a new direction. To observe a family under duress is one way of exploring its dynamics, and that was one thing I was interested in exploring in Evening: looking at human behavior on one of its basic levels. The word dysfunction has, I think, served its purpose and now has lost its meaning. Every family, like every person, is imperfect, after all. The idea that there is a Family somewhere who functions is an odd concept. In my youth I was running from my family to try to find out who I was--their influence distracted me. Now I see what a powerful hold they have, no matter what. Q: In Evening, Ann Lord is reliving a weekend affair and the greatest love of her life--complete with color, sound, smell, dialogue--while her grown children stand around her deathbed thinking her mind is blank. What are you saying about lucidity, about age and illness, about love? A: If you have ever watched someone on his or her deathbed it is hard to get the vision of suffering out of your mind. And worst of all is the great divide between the sick and the healthy, no matter how much love is being thrown across the gap. Hearing the delirium of someone drugged with painkillers and dying can be a glimpse into the person beyond the social mask. And for the sick person it can be an opportunity to look at his or her life from a different perspective. Between children and parents there is a difficulty of seeing each other simply as people. Ann Lord's children do not really know their mother as a person, and her illness begins to change their ideas about her. Illness can make us behave in the most surprising ways. Q: Reviewers have said that one of the staples of your fiction is women coping with desire. Tell us about desire (its forms, roles, repercussions) in Evening. A: I think desire is one of the main forces driving a person's life--and it seems to me a woman has, in general, a different mode of desire from a man. How a person expresses his desires, follows them, ignores them, reacts to their satisfaction or lack of fulfillment is a measure of a person's character, and therefore an inviting avenue of fiction if you want to explore human behavior and try to get at what it is like to be alive--two of my interests. The power of desire is so tremendous it is hard to ignore as a subject. Q: The extraordinary Faulkner quote that starts the novel raises powerful questions about time. Can you describe the role of time and memory in Evening? A: The sense I get from his quotation is that the attempt to conquer the past is just another battle one has with time, and a losing one. Memory, along with desire and death, are the themes that won't leave me. Memory, that activity of the mind and heart which both gives meaning to life and pulls us back from it, which has a dim basis in history but is far more tenuous than we can admit, determines the way we narrate our lives--our experience is stored there--but it is never stored in one mind like another. Memory is another example of the isolation of individuals--each has his or her own, it can never be shared exactly. And yet what treasures one finds there, treasures that seem to last for a while . . . Q: On her deathbed, Ann experiences an electrifying flood of memories, punctuated by what seem like conversations in the present with her lost love, Harris Arden. How were you able to envision and create this feeling of slipping away, this remarkable and uplifting end of a life? A: The deathbed is a classic situation where a person given time staring up at a ceiling might find it hard not to review the events of her life. I was interested in what it must feel like to have a fatal illness--something many of us will one day know, many of us not--and to imagine what the Important Things are from that perspective, maybe illuminating the Important Things in life. There is a paradox about having an uplifting end of a life: we die, and if we have found meaning in the world somewhere, then does having the meaning make it more tragic or less? Also we use the verb to die in a curious way, as if it is an active verb, when of course it is not. One is either dead or alive. Death is not something people like to contemplate much--the mind has a hard time getting around it--and yet it has a certain bottom-line quality about it. Q: Discuss the power of mystery and secrets in Evening. A: Mystery and secrets: the tip of the iceberg as far as the unfathomability of another person goes. We have secrets from others--so they can only know so much about us--and then even more complex unsolved mysteries about ourselves. I was interested in exploring how much people affect each other and yet how far they also can be from one another. The story of our lives--I'm quoting someone, I can't remember who--is the story of our relations with others. Q: The rush of falling in love, of love at first sight, is so vividly portrayed in Evening--do you believe in love at first sight? A: It's not a question of whether I believe in love at first sight or not. It exists, no question. It has happened to me. Why it happens is a whole other kettle of fish--I have no explanation for it, but it can pack a wallop. Whether it lasts is another question, but then one can ask whether many kinds of love "last." Q: How does Evening fit in the arc of your work? A: Evening is the first of my books which explores material I felt I went out in search of--because it compelled me--rather than a sorting through of material or concerns which life had presented to me and which I'd tried to make something of because they were there close to my face. I wanted to write a book that was dreamlike, with the rhythms of dreams mixed with waking life, for that is often how life seems to be. As I was writing I thought of the book as a kind of poem, which of course it is not, but I used that as a sort of internal guide. Q: You wrote the screenplay for Stealing Beauty--what was the experience like, and did you enjoy it? A: I love the movies, and I was thrilled to write a script for Bernardo Bertolucci, who was one of my cinematic heroes. Writing a script is hardly Writing. It is, rather, creating a blueprint for another form: the audio and visual one of film, and not something a fiction writer should necessarily be able to do. But having been steeped in the movies--they are as important to me in their way as books are in theirs--I had some sort of feeling for their structure and so was able to work with Bertolucci, executing ideas of his. It was the master class in non-Hollywood scriptwriting. Q: What's next for Susan Minot? A: I am currently working on a screen adaptation of Evening for Kennedy/Marshall at Disney. I have a collection of short stories about three-quarters done--stories I've been writing in between the novels and scripts. I have started on a book about a young man in search of his soul, tentatively called My Life with No One. "Her best work yet, assured, supple, exhilarating in its nerve and cool momentum" --Joan Didion "A stunning novel...a powerful story that cuts back and forth in time to give us both the defining moment in a woman's life and an understanding of how that moment has reverberated through the remainder of her days...Her evocation of her heroine's passion for Harris Arden is so convincing, her depiction of the world she inhabits is so fiercely observed...The difference between [Monkeys and Evening] attests to Susan Minot's growing ambition and assurance as an artist" --Michiko Kakutani, New York Times "An absorbing drama...Minot writes with quiet perceptiveness and grace, pulling the reader into Ann's deathbed reverie" --Elle "A brilliant lyric performance" --John Casey "In spare and lovely language, Susan Minot has set forth a real life, in all its particularity and splendor and pain. This is the task of the novelist, and in Evening Minot has succeeded admirably" --Roxana Robinson, New York Times Book Review "It astounds in its craftsmanship and imprints itself indelibly on the heart...A haunting work of art that moves at the pace of a suspense thriller" --Sheila Bosworth, New Orleans Times-Picayune "Evening is a beautifully realized work...more mature and confident than anything she has written...An exquisite novel" --Gail Caldwell, Boston Globe "A wonderful, truthful, heartbreaking book. . .. Evening vindicates the wildest assertions any of us have made about Susan Minot's talent" --Tom McGuane "Evening is a supremely sensual, sensitive and dramatic novel...So rich in color and motion, music and atmosphere" --Donna Seaman, Booklist "I was swept up in it...It moved me and made me cry" --D. T. Max, New York Observer Reader's Guide\|About the Book\|Author Biography\|Discussion Questions About the Book The questions, discussion topics and suggested reading list that follow are intended to enhance your group's experience of reading Susan Minot's Evening. We hope they will provide you with many new angles from which to approach this rich and poetic work by one of America's most powerful and emotionally evocative novelists. About the Guide Ann Lord is dying of cancer. As she lies in bed, drifting in and out of consciousness, visited by friends and family members, we enter the twilight world of her memories, dreams, and regrets. Although she has had three husbands and five children, it is, above all, to one turbulent weekend that her mind keeps returning--and to one all-too-brief, never-to-be-forgotten romance. As she loses hold on present reality, Ann is drawn insistently back forty years to memories of the glorious Maine wedding of her friend Lila, where she met, fell in love with, and finally lost the one man who has ever meant anything to her; and where a fateful tragedy struck at the heart of their happy group of friends. Evening is a magnificent, richly-textured work of art about youth and age, passion and compromise. It triumphantly confirms Susan Minot's place as one of the foremost, and most beloved, of American writers. About the Author In l994 she was contacted by the director Bernardo Bertolucci with the idea of developing his idea for a screenplay about a young American girl visiting English expatriate artists living in Tuscany and having a "sentimental education." She had always been interested in cinema as a student and moviegoer. Stealing Beauty was a collaboration with the director. It was filmed in the summer of l995, north of Siena, where she was given the opportunity to continue polishing and learning on the set. Evening is the story of a woman on her deathbed who amidst the delirium and images of her past full life relives a love affair she had forty years earlier, when at twenty-five she attended the wedding of her best friend on an island in Maine. As her children wait and tend to her, she remembers minutely the details of those three days when she met a man, a time which emerges from marriages and divorces and children as being the high point of her life. Evening has been optioned by Kennedy/Marshall at Disney, with Minot currently working on the adaptation for the screen. Discussion Guides 1. For discussion 2. Minot gives the novel an epigraph from William Faulkner: "I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it." How does this quotation relate to Evening? Does Ann try to "conquer" time? 3. Minot renders Ann's thoughts in what might be called stream-of-consciousness. Which things does Ann remember most distinctly? Which does she remember least distinctly? Which does she repress? What does the relative weight she allows each memory tell us about the emotional shape of her life? 4. Outsiders see Ann rather differently than she sees herself. Her daughter Constance, for instance, says that "her big thing" is "her stuff"; "That's what she cared about, her house and her pictures and all her things" [p. 129]. Her daughters imply that she doesn't laugh much [p. 32]. The doctor's wife says Ann is "just like other women, maybe a little more stylish if you had to say something, but like other women" [p. 12]. What, if anything, does this elderly Ann have in common with the young, passionate Ann she still feels herself to be? What does this dichotomy imply about the differences between our inner selves and the outer person our friends and family see? 5. What might have attracted Ann to each of her three husbands? How did she come to view each of them as the years went by? How does the language in which Ann recalls her marriages differ from the language in which she recalls Harris, and what does this difference in language tell us about her feelings? 6. Ann wishes that she "might have been able to read the spirit within herself and would not have spent her life as if she were only halfway in it" [p. 137], then goes on to reflect that "her life had not been long enough for her to know the whole of herself, it had not been long enough or wide" [ibid]. In what ways has it not been wide enough? Does the fault for this lie with the cruelty of fate, or with Ann herself? If fault lies with Ann, what might she have done to make things different? 7. How would you describe each of Ann's children? How has each been molded and shaped by his or her relationship with her? How does each of them behave toward her? Has the essential sadness of Ann's life rubbed off on them? 8. How has Paul's death affected Ann, Teddy, and the other children? Has it made them closer, or estranged them from one another? How, and at what times, is Ann compelled to remember Paul? 9. What sort of a person is Harris, really? What do you deduce about him and about his feelings, principles, and desires from his behavior, from what others say about him, and from the short section written from his point of view [p. 232-233]? 10. In one of Ann's imaginary discussions with Harris, he says that she might have become a little "hard" [page 224]. Does this seem a fair assessment, judging from what you know of the older Ann? If so, how does this hardness manifest itself and why has she become hard? 11. How does Minot thematically link Buddy's fate with the fate of Ann and Harris's romance? In what ways is this particular weekend the turning point in Ann's life, and how has Buddy's fate intensified this process of change? 12. Does Ann ever feel responsible for what happened to Buddy? Does Harris? Does a sense of responsibility for this tragedy, or a lack of one, have any specific effect on Ann's future life? 13. Ann conducts a number of imagined conversations with Harris in which the two meet again, for the first time in forty years. What sort of person is this elderly, imaginary Harris? Is he the sort of character you can imagine the young Harris growing into? How do you think the real sixty-five-year-old Harris might remember Ann? 14. If Ann and Harris had married, what sort of a life might they have had? Would they have been happy together? Might Ann have been unhappy and unfulfilled even with Harris? Suggestions for further reading Anita Brookner, Hotel du Lac; John Irving, A Widow for One Year; William Kennedy, Ironweed; Penelope Lively, Moon Tiger; Alice McDermott, Charming Billy; Kazuo Ishiguro, The Remains of the Day; William Maxwell, So Long, See You Tomorrow; Sue Miller, Family Picture, The Good Mother, While I Was Gone; Alice Munro, Open Secrets; Michael Ondaatje, The English Patient; Philip Roth, American Pastoral; Jane Smiley, A Thousand Acres; Anne Tyler, Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant, A Patchwork Planet; John Updike, Rabbit at Rest. Susan Minot Susan Minot Events> Susan Minot - Evening Photo © Huger Foote 4465 I 55 N JACKSON, MS 39206-6124 5:00 pm Map It 3/28/2014 Oxford Conference for the Book University of Mississippi Overby Center for Souther Journalism and Politics 1:30 pm Map It NASHVILLE, TN 37215-2724 5:00 pm Map It 7:00 pm Map It 4869 MAIN ST MANCHESTER, VT 05255-8918 Map It EXETER, NH 03833-2456 Map It 4/10/2014 BARNES & NOBLE NEW YORK, NY 10024-4906 7:00 pm Map It DENVER, CO 80206-1411 3:00 pm Map It 4/13/2014 BOOK PASSAGE CORTE MADERA, CA 94925-1145 7:00 pm Map It PALO ALTO, CA 94301-2305 7:00 pm Map It PASADENA, CA 91101-2116 7:00 pm Map It LOS ANGELES, CA 90027-4213 7:30 pm Map It • Evening by Susan Minot • September 07, 1999 • Fiction - Literary • Vintage • $15.95 • 9780375700262 Your E-Mail Address send me a copy Recipient's E-Mail Address (multiple addresses may be separated by commas) A personal message:	http://www.randomhouse.com/book/115259/evening-by-susan-minot/9780307758781	<urn:uuid:edafabb6-101b-4b5c-86b6-e31a65e00f5d>	en	0.975706	0.025841
RealClimate logo Filed under: — eric @ 1 November 2006 There has been an interesting exchange of letters in the Forum section of the American Geophysical Union’s weekly newspaper, EOS. Last year, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists (AAPG) took the remarkable step of giving a fiction writer, Michael Crichton, its journalism award. Representatives of the American Quaternary Association (AMQUA )1 took offense and wrote a letter to EOS about it. Then Fred Singer and Kevin Corbett wrote to AGU to complain about AMQUA’s letter. Singer claims to be defending the AAPG, though it is by no means clear that the official position of AAPG is representative of its members (see the discussion on AAPG’s website, here (Note: subsequent to this article, these pages were put back into the members-only area)). For his part, Corbett accused the American Geophysical Union of “trenchant advocacy for a preferred political agenda.” We think that AGU’s official response was right on the mark: “AGU does not have any agenda in this arena beyond ensuring that the best available science is used in making public policy.” You can read the complete letters, and AGU’s response, here. In further response to Singer’s letter, we (and the AMQUA folks) are certainly aware of the evidence for the so-called “1500-year cycle” in climate. But we are unaware of any evidence that this has anything to do with the current warming, as Singer claims. And we find it is curious that Singer’s recent view that the earth is cooling has been replaced with the view that the current warming is “unstoppable.”2 It also worth pointing out something in Corbett’s letter that AGU neglected to mention (no doubt because they were being polite). In trying to make the point that the “anthropogenic hypothesis” (that humans are influencing climate) is controversial, Corbett cites a recent EOS article. In that article,3 Wally Broecker and Thomas Stocker contest the idea that humans began significantly influencing atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations thousands of years ago. But nowhere do Broecker and Stocker ever question that humans are the chief cause of rising CO2 since the industrial era began (i.e. around 1850). Wally Broecker is one of the world’s most respected climate scientists. Citing one of his papers (or anyone’s paper) as if it made a point that it most certainly did not — and with which Broecker would disagree completely — is poor scientific practice, and is very misleading, at best. We suggest that Mr. Corbett be a little more careful with such things if he wishes to be taken seriously. 1The Quaternary refers to the last ~2 millions years of earth history, during which the great ice ages have occurred. 3Broecker, W. S., and T. F. Stocker (2006), The Holocene CO2 rise: Anthropogenic or natural?, Eos Trans. AGU 87(3), 27. 67 Responses to “AGU, AAPG and AMQUA” 1. 1 Eli Rabett says: There was an additional item on the front page of the EOS issue setting forth the AGU policy on taking public positions: (behind the wall) “AGU has not and will not articulate or support any public position on issues that extend beyond the range of available geophysical data or recognized norms of legitimate scientific debate. Positions of AGU must be based on sound science. Members are notified when the Union is preparing a position and have an opportunity to provide input. Accepted positions are publicly available. Each has a sunset limit; all must be reviewed on a regular basis. You can read the full Union policy on advocacy at http:// However, I think you missed the major point of Singer’s letter. He is opening a new front in the climate wars, the 1500 year climate cycle. As I noted yesterday the book is already out and if you Google it, you will find that every right wing web site is hailing this as the answer. Of course, what the question is remains open. I suppose one must read the book to start answering the inevitable. It might be good to get ahead of the curve. [Response: Thanks for adding these points. See my response re 1500-year cycle, below comment 6. -eric] 2. 2 Manboy says: I’ve been looking at the comments of some of these skeptics. I’ve come under the impression that there aren’t very many skeptics whose skepticism stood the light of day. What I’m wondering at the most is why do these people continue to be listened to ? The way I see it they’re contributing nothing to the discussion on global warming, only hindering it by their unsound claims. Didn’t Singer used to be of the opinion that CFCs and ozone depletion are unrelated ? Why do people continue to listen to him ? 3. 3 Global tempertures have slipped sideways since 1998 as part of a coherent global climate signal. They will continue to shift sideways and trend downwards over the next few decades – as in the trend seen between 1946 and 1975. Some of the conections between the IPO and climate are emerging from Australian hydrological analysis. Some interesting aspects of this can be seen at: - there is a recording of a presentation [Response:A nice thing about confident predictions like this (which aren't made in the cited abstract by the way!) is that we can wait and see what happens. I'm not holding my breath. -eric] 4. 4 I do think the impact that Michael Crichton has is quite extraordinary. “State of Fear” provides a totally misleading scientific commentary on global warming; yet, some of my friends and colleagues believe it! I don’t think I have ever been so motivated to write a rebuttal to anything – and so wrote a 6,500 essay against “State of Fear” (& some of his other work) over my summer holiday. “libenter homines id quod volunt credunt” (men willingly believe that which they wish for) Caesar 5. 5 pete best says: Fred Pearce gives a whole chapter on the 1500 year cycle in a book on climate change released recently. No mention of Singer in it but two other people who seemed to have found some sort of 1500 year cycle linked to strong solar activity, Gerard Bond being the person who up until recently has don the most work in this area. [Response:See my comment after #6, below. -eric] 6. 6 Grant says: Unfortunately, I’m not aware of the evidence. Do you have a link to papers on the topic? What, in your opinion, is the strength of the evidence? [Response: As Eli pointed out (comment #2 above), we probably need to do an entire post on this. But I’ll give a bit of background here. Many records of past climate that stretch back 100,000 years or so — notably ice cores, but also some marine sediments, lake sediments, etc. — show very distinct evidence of what is typically called “millennial-scale variabilty”. That is, variations in climate proxies that seem relatively large in magnitude, on timescales of 1000 years or so; arguably larger than might be expected from observed climate (we have only been watching it a bit more than 100 years). In some records, particularly those from the North Atlantic Region, but also in some other regions, the magnitude of this millennial-scale variabilty is much greater during the last glacial period — around 11,000 to 90,000 years ago — than it is during the most recent warm period, the Holocene (the last 11,000 years). The clearest example of this is the record of oxygen isotope ratios in the GISP2 ice core. GISP2 was one of the two deep ice cores (the other was GRIP) drilled in central Greenland, completed in 1992. It is characterized by very good dating (we know the age of the ice extremely well at each level). GISP2 is also characterized by very distinctive, abrupt increases in oxygen isotope ratios — and we know from other, independent evidence that these are abrupt warming events. They are followed by periods of warmth, and then cooling, also abrupt sometimes. See the figure here for example, and note how much greater the variability is in the earlier part of the record that in it in the Holocene. The Vostok ice core from Antarctica is also shown in the figure. It also seems to show more variabilty in the glacial that in the Holocene, but the difference is not nearly so great, and neither the warmings nor the coolings are abrupt as they are in Greenland. In any case, the spacing of the warmings and coolings in both these records occurs on a millennial timescale. This is most easily seen in the GISP2 record, where the spacing between the obvious abrupt warming events is typically 1500 years. In fact, a spectral analysis of the record shows a very distinct period of 1500 years, that it statistically significant by most standard measures of probability. In other words, there is a “cycle” in this record. The “cycle” is not statistically significant in any other record, including in other Greenland ice cores. Nor does it appear in the Holocene in GISP2. So the case that it is a “cycle” is somewhat weak. Clearly, Singer is aware of this, which is why in his letter he writes “roughly 1500 years”. But the important point is simply that these records show variabilty on timescales of millennia, and that variability seems rather large, at least prior to 11,000 years ago. Now, it is clear from these records that climate can vary quite a bit without any input from humans. And it is tempting to attribute the ice core observations to some “cause”, such a solar variabilty, as Gerard Bond did in an oft-cited paper in Science. Another standard explanation (which probably has a lot more merit) is variations in the strength of the meridional overturning circulation. It is also tempting to attribute recent variations — e.g. the “Little Ice Age” to the same cause(s). And Singer would like, then, to attribute the current warming to the same thing(s). The problems with leaping from the GISP2 ice core to the current climate are many, and I’ll just name a few. First and foremost, one would need some evidence that the purported causes are going in the right direction. If the natural cause is solar variabilty, then you have the immediate problem that the sun isn’t changing measureably now. If the cause is changes in North Atlantic meridional overturning circulation, then you need evidence it is changing in the right direction. Second, one would have to explain away the forcing due to CO2. That is, if you are going to attribute the current warming to “all natural causes”, you are going to have to explain why the CO2 increase is not contributing. That’s going to be rather difficult, since it is very very well established physics. Third, you are going to have to explain why the entire planet (not just the North Atlantic region) is warming, which was not the case during the observed “1500-year” variations of the past. I hope this helps a bit. It is clear we’ll need a more complete post on this at some point. –eric 7. 7 Timothy says: #3 – I think you are wrong. 1998 was an exceptionally warm year because of the strong El-Nino. If you look back at the Hadley/CRU temperature record you can see that a similar thing happened to global temperatures after the 1983 El-Nino, which wasn’t exceeded until 1990. What’s striking is that there hasn’t been a year cooler than 1983 since 1996. In 5-10 years time we will probably rarely see any years cooler than 1998 [unless there's a decent-sized volcano]. 8. 8 Joel Shore says: Re #3: Temperatures have not “slipped sideways” since 1998. They have continued to rise. This claim that the temperatures have not risen seems to be based on the fact that, according to some measurements, 1998 is still the warmest year on record (with 2005 a close 2nd)…while other compilations show 2005 slightly surpassing 1998. However, using this data to claim that there has been no warming since 1998 is silly, as any sort of running average over a few years continues to show warming. In fact, the 1998 peak was a huge outlier at the time it occurred and even the data sets that show it still as the warmest year have 2002 through 2005 in the spots of the 2nd through 5th spots. So, what the data in fact show is that in just the 7 years between 1998 to 2005, a temperature that had been a huge outlier at the time it occurred is now barely higher than what has been the mean temperature for the last few years. This is in fact evidence that warming continues quite rapidly. Here, in Rochester, we will often get a few anomalous days of warm temperatures (say, highs of 70 or more) in early April and then a cool down with such temperatures not seen again until well into May. By the sort of logic that people are using to claim that there has been no warming since 1998, we Rochesterians would conclude during that period in mid and late April that we were not heading toward summer but in fact cooling back toward winter. Needless to say, such a conclusion would not be correct. [Response: Obviously, claiming that global warming has stopped since 1998 (a year with temperatures above the long-term trend line) is as ridiculous as claiming that global warming has hugely accelerated since 1999 (a year below the long-term trend line). I wonder why I only hear public claims of the former (including repeatedly by Richard Lindzen)? -stefan 9. 9 Joel Shore says: Re: #2 “Didn’t Singer used to be of the opinion that CFCs and ozone depletion are unrelated ? ” Actually, as far as I know, your past tense isn’t even justified here. I.e., I believe that Singer continues to this day to deny that connection (or at least to argue that it is insignificant). Of course, if anyone has evidence that Singer has in fact accepted the well-established scientific consensus on CFCs and ozone depletion, I will be happy to stand corrected. 10. 10 Steve Sadlov says: Much of the “voice” of North American climate change perception is colored by the fact that most of the media and population still remain concentrated in the Eastern third of the country, where there has been a REGIONAL anomaly of some fairly wimpy winters and hot and muggy summers. Meanwhile, here out West, it’s been cool, overall, since the mid 1990s. 11. 11 12. 12 Dennis Avery says: As the co-author of Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1500 Years, I want to correct your account of the Eos-Forum exchange. Fred Singer supported climate cooling 10 years ago when the satellite data showed climate cooling. Since then, the data changed and so did his opinion. Similarly, until 1988, published measurements showed no increasing trend in stratospheric chlorine, indicating that natural sources of chlorine were more important than those from CFCs [1]. Singer changed his opinion when published data changed in 1991, which happened four years after the Montreal Protocol was signed [2]. 1. See S.F. Singer. Ozone Depletion Theory. Science 261, 1101-1102. 1993. 2. C.P. Rinsland et al. J. Geophys. Res. 96, 15523 (1991). [Response: Thanks. But the record indicates otherwise. In 2000, Singer is quoted as saying 'Certainly it has not been warming', and even in 2005: 'warming, such as it is, is extremely slight'. Now, a year later it's unstoppable? There's been new evidence, but none that would support such a radical 180 degree shift in position. -gavin] [Response: Furthermore, on the CFC-ozone link, Singer stated as late as 1995: 'The facts are that the scientific underpinnings are quite shaky: the data are suspect; the statistical analyses are faulty; and the theory has not been validated' - Hardly a ringing endorsement of the science. - gavin] 13. 13 cbone says: Re: 3 Richard Linzen made a similar assertion in the Telegraph: 14. 14 Joel Shore says: Re #12: While Singer may have changed his tune regarding whether or not CFCs and such were increasing the amount of stratospheric chlorine, his website on ozone shows that he continues to question the significance of this fact…Or else he hasn’t bothered to keep his website up-to-date. (See … search on ozone and read, for example, his “Five Scientific Questions on the CFC-Ozone Issue” page.) He also seems to make the strange argument there that it was still wrong to have entered into the Montreal Protocol in 1987 because the scientific evidence that stratospheric chlorine was rising hadn’t conclusively been shown by then, even while admitting that the evidence did eventually support this. So, I think this gives us a good idea of how Singer operates: Deny the accumulating evidence until it becomes utterly ludicrous to do so. Then continue to argue against policies of mitigation on the basis of other arguments and continue to criticize those who were convinced by the mounting evidence much sooner than he was. [Response:In response this and a few other comments here, I think it is important not to attack Singer merely for disagreeing with the mainstream view. Healthy skeptism is a good think in science, and we really can't fault Singer for no jumping on everyone else's band wagon. I very much dislike the term "accumulating evidence", though we see it all the time in Nature, Science, and other top journals. It is silly, beause it is the already-accumulated evidence that it is important, not what might accumulate in the future. The problem with Singer is not that he doesn't agree with everyone else. The problem is that he creates his own bandwagons -- a new one every few years, it would seem -- based on not very good evidence, and then complains loudly when the rest of us don't jump on them. -eric] 15. 15 Steve Latham says: Wikipedia’s Fred Singer page says it is in need of review: I find it interesting that he also denies/denied UVB links to skin cancer and 2nd hand smoke to lung cancer. 16. 16 Steve Latham says: Re #10 I don’t think you can authoritatively speak for “out west”. In British Columbia we’ve got a lot of trouble with shrinking glaciers, warming rivers (a related issue), and forest pest outbreaks due to increased temperatures. Some similar issues have been noted in Washington, Oregon, and parts of Idaho and Montana (and it’s been worse since the mid-90′s). Maybe your definition of “out west” is different than mine. 17. 17 The CRU has 2005 as equal second and other data sources marginally differ. All I said was that the global mean average temps ‘slipped sideways’ since 1998. No one (or at least not me)is saying that it is ‘all natural’. What I did say was that temperatures will continue to slide over a couple of decades in the same way, and for the same reason, as temperatures between 1946 and 1975. There is a pattern of Pacific Ocean sea surface temperature changes found in direct measurement, biology across the Pacific, sediments, tree rings – a mountain of evidence. The ‘confident prediction’ is hardly long term but it is based on long term trends. That the 1998 to 2006 temperature trend line continues to diverge markedly from the 1975 to 1998 trend line of 0.2 degrees C per decade. As far as the literature is concerned, there are people all over the world saying that a ‘cool phase’ of the IPO ‘may’ be happening since 1998. Such caution is appropriate for science – but there is an inevitable logic about a bipolar multi decadal phenomenon shifting phase every couple of decades. A great deal of science has been done but the implications may not be widely apparent as yet. As a trained Environmental Scientist (in the applied cross-disciplinary sense)- my intention is to foster cross disciplinary communication on an important area of climate science – not to prove an obscure and irrelevant point. The connections between the IPO and global climate start to emerge from Australian hydrological analysis (which was part of the presentation linked to – which then went on to discuss some implications through modeling and a preliminary finding of independence from ENSO). The phenomenon involves decades long term modulation of the both the frequency and and intensity of El Nino and La Nina. Cool phases bring more intense and frequent La Nina. Warm phases bring more intense and frequent El Nino. The connection between El Nino and global temperatures seems too simple to require much discussion from me – but it is widely discussed elsewhere. 18. 18 Joel Shore says: Re #17 (Robert Ellison): Regardless of your own hypothesis on how global temperatures have and will behave, my argument is that your statement about the temperature since 1998 is not supported by the data…or if so, only in the trivial sense of comparing two one-year periods several years apart, which is not the right way to deal with data that has fluctuations! Let me give you a concrete example: If you look at the CRU data set here you could also conclude using your same logic, for example, that temperatures “slipped sideways” (or even fell) between 1983 and a year in the range of 1987 – 1989, and between 1990 and years in the range of 1994 and 1996. You can even define periods in there where it looked like temperatures were falling. Do you believe that these are real and that the temperature in those intervals was actually slipping sideways in any real sustained trend? How does that fit into your hypothesis? My point is that by taking an anomalously-high year as the starting point (and 1998 is a doozy in that regard!), you are likely not to find the temperature equal to or exceeding that value for several more years. However, all the available evidence from the temperature record indicates to me that the temperature is continuing to rise, as some sort of noise-reduction method such as a running average of temperatures over (say) a 5-year period shows. Admittedly, because global temperature is a fluctuating quantity, it is hard to say with certainty what the trend has been over a short recent time period. However, there is certainly nothing that I see in the recent trends that are incompatible with a continued steady rise in the average global temperature, with of course, fluctuations imposed upon it as there always are. 19. 19 The recent temperatures are merely consistent with broader trends. Many people have suggested that a cool phase of the PDO/IPO ‘may’ have commenced in 1998. Caution is admirable in science but there is an inevitable logic to a phase change in a bipolar multi decadal phenomenon occuring every few decades. Global temperatures of the 20th century showed a warming phase to the 1940â��s, a cooling phase to the 1970â��s and renewed warming to 1998. In the past century ‘cool’ (as in sea surface temperatures) PDO regimes prevailed from 1890-1924 and again from 1947 to 1976, while ‘warm’ PDO regimes dominated from 1925 to 1946 and from 1977 to 1998.’ The records are consistent over the 20th century. I must admit, however, that I was beginning to doubt my own sanity and put the question to an unnamed source at the University of Newcastle – Australia. “The history of the 20th century global climate, is a warming (PDO+) epoch 1910-1945 where El Nino were more frequent, followed by a cooling (PDO-) epoch where La Nina events dominated. Since 1975 weâ��ve returned to a warming (PDO+) epoch where once again El Ninos are dominant.” Interannual variations are not relevant – merely the trends seen within the theoretically consistent framework of the PDO/IPO and associated long term modulation of both the frequency and intensity of La Nina and El Nino. Instead of being unflectively critical – look at the evidence. Understand the Australian hydrology – some of which is included in the link provided previously. I may be wrong and I may be crazy – but I may just be the lunatic you’re looking for. [Response:Robert, this comment of yours got caught in our "moderation queue". Not sure why! In any case, I have approved it. Regarding your comments on the IPO/PDO, the problem is that you are implying predictability that just isn't there. I don't think you're crazy -- you're just just jumping to conclusions most of the community of scientists wouldn't jump to. As I've said before, we probably need to have a post on the use and abuse of the PDO. Like the AMO, it is not really an oscillation, in the way that El Nino is, and is hence inherently unpredictable. I refer you to the papers by Clara Deser of NCAR on this subject, notably this one: -eric] 20. 20 Pat Neuman says: re: Lindzen’s assertion (#13.) Using uploaded global land_ocean data in a spread sheet, the difference between the 1995-2004 average (0.459 deg C) of annual global temperature anomalies and the 1996-2005 average (0.435 deg C) is 0.024 deg C, indicating a rate of global surface temperature warming of 2.4 deg C on a 100 year basis. Also see: 21. 21 Bryan Sralla says: Who gave you the key to get into the AAPG “Members Only” comments? It seems we have a disgrunted AAPG member amongst our ranks. As everyone can now see, we geologists are not really the contrarians we have been made out to be. Yes, it is true that the AAPG policy position is embarassing. There, I said it. It hurts though, as our organization is one of the premeir geological organizations in the world, and its members have analyzed more sedimetary rock data than any other group on the planet, by far. [Response: The comments are linked from the AAPG home page. No disgruntled members required (though it appears it wouldn't have been hard to find one). -gavin] 22. 22 Mark A. York says: Peter Winters that’s good essay on Crichton. I tried to leave comment after registering but Mark Lynas’s site is squirrelly and I get an error page every time. I wrote a whole novel using the correct information he skewed and made mockery of in State of Fear. So far the agents in New York haven’t been kind to the concept. If they bought lies as fiction they should in turn buy truth in fiction which Hemingway called the “hardest thing: to make something truer than true.” I think I’ve done that with “Warm front.” 23. 23 Thanks Eric – my last post on this topic here. I look forward to a new posting on the PDO/IPO. You have my email – I could shoot you some relevant peer reviewed papers on the Australian hydrology I mentioned. The abstract in the link is still talking about interannual persistence? There doesn’t seem much dispute in the science community about the PDO/IPO as a multi decadal phenomenon? It is, after all, discussed in the IPCC assessment and the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment Report. What I feel has changed is the recent insights into long term modulation of both the frequency and intensity of EL Nino and La Nina during warm and cool phases of the PDO/IPO. The PDO was named by Stephen Hare (from memory) – and he was talking about periodic flucuations, in salmon originally, in Alaskan fisheries. While the onset of a phase change is not predictable (while the cause remains unknown) – phase changes can and have been identified after the event. The PDO index is by no means definitive after 1998 but ‘predicting’ a ‘cool phase’ is like predicting that it will rain sometime in the future – good odds unless the planet has moved so much that a long lived property of global climate no longer applies – then all bets are off and we really are, to use an Australian expression, up Shit Creek. I am sure that there will be many people closing following the PDO/IPO indices, as well as global temperatures, over the coming years. 24. 24 Re: Eric’s response to #6 If you are going to attribute the current warming to only GHGs, you are going to have to explain, how the increase in solar forcing in the first half of the 20th century, could have equilibrated so quickly, when the climate commitment papers, say it takes several decades for most of surface temperature to equilibrate, and sea level rises for a millenia or more. Some of that 0.8W/m^2 of heat storage (Hansen 2005) that is being annually stored in the ocean must be due to the increase to the current plateau of solar activity. Further increase in solar activity in the latter half of the 20th century is not needed. On the issue of the 1500 year cycle, you might be interested in the proposal that it is the superposition of the the Gleisberg and Suess cycles: Holger Braun, et al, “Possible solar origin of the 1,470-year glacial climate cycle demonstrated in a coupled model” Nature 438, 208-211 (10 November 2005) While the Gleisberg and Suess cycles are detected in the interglacials, their superposition, as you noted, is only apparent in certain glacial records. A possible explanation, is that the threshold for some minor climate mode is reached by this superposition in the ice age climate, but that mode is not present in the interglacial climate, or the threshold for that mode is different or not reached. [Response: As a co-author on the paper you cite above (and other papers related to the 1470-year cycle), I should perhaps add that in my view these cycles have nothing to do whatsoever with the recent global warming - and I don't know any scientist working on these cycles who disagrees. Note that in our model simulations the temperature changes seen in Greenland, Antarctica and elsewhere agree quite well with data, and are caused entirely by changes in ocean heat transport which has almost no impact on global mean temperature. This is something entirely different from the widespread global warming that is happening right now. -stefan] [Response: Stefan's point is very important. The mechansism proposed in Braun et al. is one of amplification of solar forcing by a particular mechansism, one that distributes heat around the globe, not one that leads to significantly warmer global temperatures. This is similar to the debate about the Little Ice Age. For a long time, people thought it was a globel signal -- that is, cooling everywhere at the same time. We no longer think that, because the data show otherwise. We don't think this for the longer term warmings and coolings in the Antarctic and Greenland records either. This was suggested in theory at least back in 1992 in two independent papers by Stocker and by Crowley. The data show it very clearly in Blunier and Brook, 2000, in Science. We're not saying that there is not significant climate variabilty on timescales of 1500 years. There is! What we are saying is that it doesn't result in a significant global mean temperature change. Neither the data, nor the physical mechanisms underlying the data, would lead to any other conclusion. Finally, I would like to emphasize that everyone in the scientific community understands and accepts that even some of the 20th century warming is due to natural changes. Most of the research on the subject is aimed at figuring out such details, and the results are well known, and have been for some time. [I never said it had to do onlywith Greenhouse gases.] What we’re objecting to is the cavalier approach of simply declaring it is “due to the 1500 year cycle.” That’s what Singer did in his letter, and does in his book. –eric] 25. 25 Urs Neu says: Re 24 The problem with your argument is, that the climate commitment (delayed warming) of a forcing that stops in 1950 would be mainly felt during the immediately following decades and then flatten strongly. I.e. there would be further warming mainly in the 50ies and 60ies and less in the 70ies, and only a very slight warming afterwards (see e.g. Wigley 2005). However, what we see in reality is the opposite: slight cooling in the 50ies and 60ies and strong warming afterwards. This inevitably points to the fact that there must be other and stronger forcings effective during these times. According to what Hansen 2005 (Science) and Wigley 2005 (Science) present, and considering the possible solar forcing compared to the assumed GHG forcing in the models, it is very unlikely that the commitment to the solar activity increase before 1950 is contributing more than a few hundredths of a degree after 1970, which is less than 10% of the observed increase. 26. 26 Stefan, Do you have an estimate of where we are in the Gleisberg and Suess cycles and therefore what their superposition is? Since we don’t have a good model of what explanatory power these cycles have for levels of solar activity, I too would not attribute global warming to them, although I also don’t see the evidence for arguing that “these cycles have nothing to do whatsoever with the recent warming”. It is pretty clear that we there is a lot we don’t know about solar activity. Sunspot models currently account for only about 80% of solar variation over the last two cycles, during a period when solar activity has not greatly changed from its 1940 levels reached earlier in the century. The models cannot be considered validated outside this regime yet. With solar activity currently (per Solanki) at one of its highest levels in the last 8000 years, and less than 8% likely to maintain this level for another 50 years, one is not entitled to assume that high levels of solar activity over this period of recent warming is a mere unrelated coincidence. In addition, the solar conveyor theorists, based on a slowing of the solar conveyor this last (11 year) cycle are hypothesizing that the second cycle out will see much reduced solar activity. The activity of the next cycle is expected to continue to be high. Since solar activity, by climate commitment studies of the equilibrium time of the climate, must explain some of the recent warming, it would be a lot cleaner result, if the Suess and Gleisberg cycles were somehow aligning with this recent solar activity, and thus providing some insight and hope for predictability. It is nice in science when disparate things come together and start to make sense. Unfortunately for this type of longer term phenomena, we may not live long enough to see the resolution, if it isn’t coming together now. Even though I am probably older than you, I still have hopes of seeing at least the next two cycles, and perhaps some advancement of knowledge in this area. 27. 27 John L. McCormick says: RE # 2 and the topic of this thread; The commenter said [I've been looking at the comments of some of these skeptics. I've come under the impression that there aren't very many skeptics whose skepticism stood the light of day. What I'm wondering at the most is why do these people continue to be listened to? The way I see it they're contributing nothing to the discussion on global warming, only hindering it by their unsound claims. ] My reply: Sceptics are listened to (worse yet, acknowledged that their opinion has value) because we feel an obligation to refute their nonsense, discredit them, prove them wrong and win back the argument before a dumbfounded average reader/audience. These aging shills are never going to stop their gaming the discussion and goading the legitimate science community and people of common sense to turn attention to them as if they are relevant. The past several years of US climate change discussion and argument have been shaped, in large part, by the Bush machine, corporate vested interests shoveling money to Sen. Inhofe, CEI, CATO and the award-winning scholar Michael Crichton. Name your favorite contrarians here………… Bottom line, these are irrelevant beings we recognize as moving forces to be confronted. We get to throw the food back at them and they return the volley. Then, we scoop our plates and heave another round. If you think that is a mischaracterization of what is going on, spend some time trolling the blogs and see for yourself; attack then counterattack then new attack and new counterattack……serious climate change discussion does Rush Limbaugh. No wonder the public turns off the chatter and goes back to BAU. I urge RealClimate sponsors and contributors to see how pointless and time-consuming are these verbal jousts fortified by code and obscure reports and journal articles. Does anyone believe the average reader will run to the library to research Fred Singer’s latest zinger? They take more from news articles that describe the plight of Midwest farmers suffering continuing drought or severe water restrictions in the UK. That is the news they can process even if it does not cause them to retrofit their home with energy efficient appliances (wish I had the cash to do that myself). Two recent articles that are far more relevant than the EOS letter (in my opinion): Drought-Hit Australia Battles Climate Change linked at: [ SYDNEY - Australia is already feeling the heat from climate change with a five-year drought devastating rural life, severe early season wildfires and record unseasonal temperatures. Every four days, a farmer commits suicide under the stress of failing crops, dying livestock and debt as the worst drought in 100 years bites deep into the nation's psyche and erodes economic growth. "The current drought highlights how vulnerable we are to climate change," said farmer Mark Wootton. "We will never solve the drought if we don't solve climate change." ] In the article the view of the Australian Bureau of Meteorology provided a much more worthy topic for RealClimate when it said Australia and the globe are experiencing rapid climate change. Are we witnessing the disintegration of slow motion? Then read: China Turns to Saltwater To End Drought It was not immediately clear how China, which is also desperately short of fuel, would power the energy-hungry desalination plantsâ??. ] Frankly, what is relevant in some wing nut saying warming is cyclical and comes around about every 1500 years. Great topic for dissertationsâ?¦.useless for Australian and Chinese municipal water supply agencies. They are capitalizing billions of dollars to manufacture fresh water because they cannot bet on the rain coming in time. I have asked the question to RealClimate before and I ask again: Would we recognize abrupt climate change if it hit us in the face or do we first have to see it on a computer screen? Time is running out. Put the food down and tell us what you scientists really believe. I sometimes wonder if scientists can. 28. 28 Eli Rabett says: I suspect that AAPG is somewhat like ACS, with lots of members, but controlled to a large extent by the underlying industry. We get bennies, but you know what drives the agenda. 29. 29 Grant says: Re: #26 and the ongoing “debate” I too am frustrated that the well-funded, pervasive efforts of contrarians are shaping the public debate. But the efforts of RealClimate are not in vain. Far from it. For example, a recent post regurgitated some of the same old same old contrarian garbage. But the RC moderators didn’t need to refute it; several “regulars” did the job quite neatly. And, they did it without ad hominem, without SHOUTING, instead applying cool-headed logic including references to the scientific literature. Perhaps RealClimate is creating an “army” of well-informed advocates, schooled in sound climate science and well-rehearsed in civilized debate: exactly the kind of arguments that actually persuade the undecided. Yes, there are plenty of blogs with claim/counterclaim/reclaim with insult/recounter with even more stinging insult, etc. But I have also seen blogs with ridiculous claim/factual refutation/reclaim with insults/won’t sink to that level. This is far less satisfying for the blog poster (you don’t get to visibly “win” the debate) but far more persuasive to the undecided reader. I agree that the struggle to overcome misinformation is arduous and painful, but it’s worth it. Despite the best efforts of contrarians, we are winning the debate. A lot of that is due to people talking to other people, over a beer in a bar, around the water cooler, about an article in the paper, etc. This happens to me a lot, and these days, I am so much better informed, and have encountered so many contrarian arguments before, that without anger, shouting, or personal attacks I generally carry the day. The cool-headed logical approach rarely wins the “shouting match,” but almost always persuaded the undecided. 30. 30 Re: Urs “This inevitably points to the fact that there must be other and stronger forcings effective during these times.” What every intervening effects caused the 50s and 60s cooling, only means that the equilibrating to the increased level of forcing was delayed, so that the . Hansen’s 2005 work in Science was based on the GISS-ER model, which had a bias against solar per Roesch 2006., and Hansen, et al, applied that bias twice by using the “effective forcing” for solar he derived from: Hansen, J., et al. (2005), Efficacy of climate forcings, J. Geophys. Res., 110, D18104, doi:10.1029/2005JD005776. That value reduced the solar forcing applied by another factor of 0.92. The abuility to match 20th century heat flux into the ocean with only GHGs, with a model twice biased against solar, and at a resolution that did not reproduce ENSO behavior is not impressive. If modelers really want to test the solar hypothesis, they should at least acknowledge the consensus factor of two uncertainty in solar forcing increase, and use that. In the meantime both Hansen papers should be retracted. The credibility of climate models will be increased when they stop being unchallengable paper mills, and when corrective action is occasionally taken. Roesch A. (2006), Evaluation of surface albedo and snow cover in AR4 coupled climate models, J. Geophys. Res., 111,D15111, doi:10.1029/2005JD006473. The the URL I supplied for futher discussion, of the implications of the Roesch result. [Response: No, no. and wrong. Your supposed bias against solar forcing due to the minor surface albedo offsets is trivial as has been demonstrated to you myself, and even from Isaac Held. There is no 'double' application of solar efficiacy in the Hansen et al results - think about it! 'Efficacy' is a model result, not an input. Finally your idea that models get improved by retracting papers is, shall we say, a little bizarre. Model improvements are always ongoing - both as data improves and better physics is incorporated. Those improvements will show up in the next set of papers. If we haven't done exactly the sensitivity experiment you want, then download the model and do it yourself - it's complicated, but it's not that hard. - gavin] 31. 31 Eli Rabett says: Let me reply <>tongue in cheek<> to John McCormick and Grant. Rapid climate change will take at least 30 years. Geologists who think like rocks don’t pay much attention to such short periods. Within 2 sigma I will be dead in 30 years. Why should I care? YMMV. <>/tongue<> 32. 32 Gavin, The GISS-ER globally-annually averaged surface albedo is approximately 0.131 compared to satellite observation values of 0.121 and 0.124. To gain perspective apply the globally-annually averaged solar surface flux of 198 W/m^2 (Kiel and Trenberth, 1997) to get an error of 1.4 to 2W/m^2. How can you and Isaac argue that this is small when it is larger than the heat flux of 0.8W/m^2 into the ocean that was the result of the Hansen, et al 2005 work. Yes, the efficacy is a GISS-ER model result (and thus biased against solar), but it was reapplied as an input in Hansen’s 2005 Science publication (bias doubly applied). All the AR4 models have a bias against solar, attribute the recent warming to GHGs and manage to fit the 20th century data, despite having climate sensitivities that vary by over a factor of two. The models are still too facile and poorly validated and constrained. The Hansen papers were particularly egregious in applying the anti-solar bias twice, using efficacy forcings based on the atmosphere that ignore how much more strongly solar is coupled to the ocean, and for getting conclusions about the climate past the peer reviewers that went beyond the model results. [Response:Martin. This is getting tired. We explained the difference that an offset in the mean could have on the sensitivity to solar (small). For the last time, I assure you that efficacy is not applied as an input. The only egregious thing here is your continued inability to listen when people try and explain things. Conversation over. -gavin] 33. 33 buck smith says: I recently came across this article which advocates something I have long thought about – geo-engineering solutions to global warming: I think Edward Teller and / or some Russian scientists have also advocated this before. Besides the idea of putting something in orbit to block some of the sun’s incoming radiation, there may be other geo-engineering solutions. For example if rising sea levels is the big problem that comes form global warming, maybe we can use nuclear explosions to open up some caverns to maintain the sea level constant. Part of being a scientist is to look at all solutions to a problem. It is important to remember that CO2 is not in and of itself a toxic compound. It is a vital nutrient for plant life… [Response: Look at: - gavin] 34. 34 Bryan Sralla says: Re: #31 Both of Eli’s comments. 1)The AAPG is not under control of big oil. In fact, I would say that most of the membership does not work for major oil companies. Much of the AAPG current policy position has come from some papers published by Lee Gerhard of the Kansas Geological Survey, and an AAPG past president, neither of whom are associated with big oil. You are just wrong about this. On your second statement, geologists, and specifically petroleum geologists, have looked at more of earth’s history than any other group of scientists. Who else gets the opportunity to study marine fossils coming from a well drilling at 8 km deep? A job like this gives you a little different perspective. Many of us believe that the public should be educated on this perspective in order to place recent change in context. Such a perspective however, does not mean that we do not move out of the way of a hurricane or tsunami when it approaches. It does not mean that we deny the workings of physics. We understand that if you do not adapt, you become part of the geological record. 35. 35 muller.charles says: #24 Eric Response That’s a point I don’t clearly understand. When I look at IPCC 2007 draft (Table 10.2.1) about model intercomparison for simulation of 20th century and projection in 21st century, it appears that a large majority of models do not include any solar forcing. How is it possible if 1910-40 warming was at part solar-induced ? I suppose the signal of temperature trend on this period is very weak (equivalent to chaotic variability). But if all 1900-2000 warming is attributed to GHG’s in these models, how do they avoid an overestimation of GHG’s climate sensitivity for 2000-2100? 36. 36 chris says: Re #33 Isn’t that a ludicrously pointless statment? Of course CO2 is a “vital nutrient” for plant life! CO2 plus water = plants (add a few minerals or N2-fixators, as sources of nitrogen, phosphorus, sulphur and metal ions etc.). Without plants no animals could exist. Only bacteria and other microorganisms could exist without plants. But so what?! We’re not talking about the role of CO2 as a constituent of plant and animal matter. We’re talking about CO2 as a greenhouse gas that is the dominant variable in the composition of the atmosphere. CO2 functions as a “vital nutrient” at atmospheric levels of 180 ppm (glacial levels), or 280 ppm (interglacial levels), or 385 ppm (atmospheric CO2 levels now), and it will function as a “vital nutrient” at levels of 480 ppm or 580 ppm or 780 pp or 1080 ppm or 1580 ppm or 5080 ppm or whatever. However, CO2 levels also “set” the Earths temperature in its role as a greenhouse gas. Plants will do fine when CO2 levels reach 1080 ppm (say). It will act wonderfully as a “vital nutrient”. Some plants will, thrive! Unfortunately, animals by and large won’t. Including us… 37. 37 Gavin, I quote from the Hansen, et al, 2005 paper “Figure 1A summarizes the forcings that drive the simulated 1880 to 2003 climate change. Among alternative definitions of climate forcing (9), we use the effective forcing, Fe. Fe differs from conventional climate forcing definitions (11) by accounting for the fact that some forcing mechanisms have a lesser or greater ‘efficacy’ in altering global temperature than an equal forcing by CO” And this quote: “Solar irradiance is taken as increasing by 0.22 W/m2 between 1880 and 2003, with an estimated uncertainty of a factor of 2 (9).” So, looking at the efficacy paper, as near as I can tell, this 0.22 W/m^2 is leans 0.247 from table 3, multiplied by the efficacy of 0.92 giving 0.227, which for some reason is rounded down to 0.22, perhaps because the uncertainties are viewed as “subjective”. [Response: The model uses the actual irradiance from Lean as input. The 'forcing' that is associated with that, is a diagnostic which is plotted and included in the tables. Nothing in how the forcing is defined, nor how it is compared to other forcings has any input into the model at all. The 0.22 is the effective forcing from 1880-2003, based on the adjusted forcing of 0.24, based on the total irradiance change given in Lean (2000). -gavin] 38. 38 chris says: Re #34 Great! Geologists (and “specifically petroleum geologists”) have great insight into the distant past. They can “educate the public” on this perspective! No doubt they (geologists) can point out that not only have CO2 levels been higher (much higher!) in the past. They can also point out that it’s been hotter too. So nothing to worry about then! I have no problem with geologists “educating the public” about the geological history of the Earth. It’s a fascinating subject. However it would be extremely unfortunate if this “education” was used as a means of suggesting that we have nothing to worry about since, hey, it’s been hotter in the past and CO2 levels were higher! I would hope that the geologists “educating the public” were honest enough to tell the whole story and tell us (for example) that although it was a bit warmer during the last interglacial 130,000 years or so ago, sea levels were 10-12 feet higher. We might want to incorporate the latter point into our consideration of how much or little we care about whether it gets a bit warmer. One could question the value of the geologists input even if it were to be fully honest. Because, after all, mankind has only been on the Earth for 200,000 years or so. Hominid evolution encompasess a period stretching back 4 million years. Surely these are the relevant timescales for considering the climatic conditions within which we might be comfortable. Our civilisations have “acclimatised” themselves to a rather narrow range of climatic conditions. We need to consider the extent to which we can accomodate ourselves to climatic variations that bracket those within which we have evolved. One might question the relevance of the “geologists education of the public” with respect to climatic variations involving vast difference in temperature or atmospheric CO2 levels that might have existed in the distant past that bear little resemblance to those existing either now, or during the entire period of mans recent evolution. 39. 39 Whoops, no Lean’s Fi is 0.288, not 0.247, so I don’t know where Hansen’s 0.22 comes from, even though the efficacy paper is given as the citation. 40. 40 Steve Sadlov says: “Aging shills” etc, etc …. AGW savvy Joan’s of Arc and Men from La Mancha, standing up to “the Man” (man!) who reputedly funds the skeptics … etc, etc. If only. In truth, the current money is on AGW, not on skeptical thought. The skeptics are the new radicals, the AGW true believers are the current orthodoxy / establishment. Witness recent bets on growth in the Carbon Credit trading futures. 41. 41 John L. McCormick says: RE # 40, Steve, you said [In truth, the current money is on AGW, not on skeptical thought.] The skeptical thought machine seems to be well oiled if the Exxon contributions to CEI are any indication. Maybe Myron is a petroleum geologist in his free time? Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $2,005,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. $85,000 ExxonMobil Corporate Giving Source: ExxonMobil 1998 grants list $230,000 ExxonMobil Foundation general support Source: ExxonMobil Foundation 2000 IRS 990 $280,000 ExxonMobil Foundation Source: ExxonMobil 2001 Annual Report $205,000 ExxonMobil Foundation 50K congressional briefing program, 140K general operating support, 60K legal activities Source: ExxonMobil 2002 Annual Report $200,000 ExxonMobil Corporate Giving 140K general operating support, 60K for legal activities. Source: ExxonMobil 2002 Annual Report $25,000 ExxonMobil Corporate Giving Annual Dinner Source: ExxonMobil 2003 Corporate Giving Report $440,000 ExxonMobil Foundation General Operating Support Source: ExxonMobil 2003 Corporate Giving Report $90,000 ExxonMobil Foundation General Operating Support Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004 $90,000 ExxonMobil Foundation Global Climate Change Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004 $90000 ExxonMobil Foundation Global Climate Change Outreach Source: Exxon Giving Report 2004 $90,000 ExxonMobil Foundation General Operating Support Source: ExxonMobil 2005 DIMENSIONS Report (Corporate Giving) $180,000 ExxonMobil Corporate Giving General Operating Support Source: ExxonMobil 2005 DIMENSIONS Report (Corporate Giving) 42. 42 Joel Shore says: However, another part of being a scientist is to realize that one sometimes does not have an infinite amount of time to look at all solutions and one might have to prioritize what one investigates, at least in detail. Another part is to recognize that there are always surprises and unknowns so that there should be preference given to simpler solutions (such as don’t do what is screwing everything up) rather than complex “swallow the spider to catch the fly” solutions. This is not to say that some geo-engineering solutions are not worthy of some consideration (although your idea of creating caverns for sea water by nuclear explosions is probably one we could put into that not worthy category pretty damn quickly!)…But, it seems to me that some people are using the idea of looking into these just as a way to avoid making any changes that Exxon and Western Fuels Association may be uncomfortable with! And, along the lines of unexpected things…It is starting to become better understood that, in addition to climatic effects, the increasing levels of CO2 are changing ocean chemistry in detrimental ways. Surprises like this point out exactly why a focus on screwing the ecosystem and climate system up less are often wiser than trying to tinker with the system by doing things that we hope can offset some of the negative impacts of our original effects. 43. 43 Paul Biggs says: #15 – Not the first time passive smoking has surfaced in a climate science weblog – as a life long non-smoker I would point out that large diesel engines emit the two most carcinogenic chemicals known to science, particularly when the engine is under load. These are 3-nitrobenzanthrone (3-NBA) and 1,8-dinitropyrene (DNP) and could be at least partly responsible for an increase in lung cancer in urban areas. Another reason for reducing fossil fuel use/burning fuel more cleanly and another reason to be cautious about the evidence for passive smoking, which isn’t as good as the evidence linking smoking and cancer. 44. 44 Bryan Sralla says: Re #39: Thank yor for your perspective. I do not agree with it however. The geological perspective tells us that a certain amount of earth system change (not just surface temperature) is beyond human control. For that portion of change, mitigation is the only rational remedy. How do we deal with things like volcanic eruptions or possible weakening or flip of the earth’s magnetic field? How might future man deal with a Milankovich cycle or a large collisional impact from space? Geology also serves as a kind of baseline to try and asertain how much of the earth system change is due to us. Without this perspective, it is really hard to view these changes in a meaningful scale. Most geologists see that man is altering the earth system in a variety of complex ways from damming and diverting rivers, to agriculture, to GHG and aerosol emmisions. Though helping to better understand these, geologists might also suggest different behaviors which might be beneficial, and others that would have a counterproductive or no impact. I believe that RC favorite scientists like Micheal Mann would agree, that all disciplines of the earth sciences (including geology) have an important role to play. [Response: Many of the greatest scientists of today, including many who study climate, were trained as geologists, originally. But, this is getting way way off topic. I plan to shut down comments on this post, unless they start being more relevant. No offense intended to this particular comment. --eric ] 45. 45 Re: #37, Gavin, the plot in figure 1A for solar irradiance appears wrong. It only show one-sixth of watt, peak to trough for the last cycle. The center of that cycle is only 0.2+/-0.02W above zero. Peak to trough should be about 1.3W. Is that a plot of the actual forcing data? [Response: It's a plot of the forcings (Fe). So 1.30.7/40.92 ~ 0.22 after taking everything into account. - gavin] 46. 46 Bryan Sralla says: Re: #42 Joe, the reason Exxon is investing money in CO2 sequestering technology is that it may help their bottomlime. Pumping CO2 into some oilfields (miscible flooding) can dramatically increase the recovery factor, leading to more oil reserves. Pumping CO2 into a coal or organic shale causes it to produce more methane gas. If domestic American oil producers had a ready source of CO2 (strip CO2 from the atmosphere?), some recent studies have shown it might increase recoverable oil reserves in the US alone by up to 20 Billion Barrels (equivalent to a mega-giant middle east oilfield). I know, many will ascribe all sorts of evil intentions to this, but who would you rather buy your oil (gasoline, aviation fuel) from: Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Exxon? They all sell it. 47. 47 Eli Rabett says: Well Bryan, it seems to me that the timescale that geologist professionally think about is a mite longer than the situation we are currently confronted with, and therein lies a problem. As to control of professional organizations, well, there is a huge petroleum industry (and a pretty huge chemistry one also) and I rather suspect that the industry has a very large influence on the organizations. 48. 48 So the 0.92 factor for the efficacy of solar was applied to the forcings used in the Hansen 2005 Science paper and run through the GISS-ER model again. [Response: Sigh..... Try to think about it. The graph is there to compare the different forcings acting on this model. Since we are comparing forcings, the effective forcing is an appropriate metric. This is a diagnostic of the model, not an input field. The inputs remain the same and are available directly from the GISS website. - gavin] 49. 49 Gavin, Peak to trough 1.3 mapped to the surface of the earth (divide by 4) and applying the 0.92 factor from the GISS-ER based efficacy paper gives a peak to trough of 0.299. The peak to trough in the plot is about 0.16. The 0.7 is fine for integrating the sinusoidal, but should not impact the peak to trough. I assume that the solar irradiance increase from lean is larger than the 1.3 in order to get to the 0.22 figure. [Response: 0.7 is for the albedo... - gavin] 50. 50 chris says: Re #44 I have no problem with “the geological perspective” in general terms! But you need to be clear about what this “perspective” is and how it relates to present day issues. Of course a “certain amount of the Earth system change” is beyond human control. But all of these things (you cite “volcanic eruptions” and “weakening or flip of the Earth’s magnetic field” or “Milankovic cycles” or “large collisional impacts from space”) are very low probability events in the foreseeable future (apart from volcanic events, and the common-or-garden variety of the latter are of no particular concern). One needs to be more precise about the “geological perspective” in relation to climate change. The geological perspective gives a fascinating insight into the evolution of Earth processes of the timescale of many 100′s of thousands years and longer. But global warming is an issue that impacts right now and will do so during the coming decades. The geological perspective, however fascinating, doesn’t offer great insights into our immediate problems which are rather clearly defined (too much CO2 and other greenhouse gases being pumped into the atmosphere in too short a space of time!). That’s not to say that a study of geological processes, current and historical, won’t continue to provide insight into to the workings of the Earth. But that’s not really the key issue at present! Switch to our mobile site	http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/11/amqua_aapg/	<urn:uuid:6e149b65-449c-48d8-843f-9dce1dda6cdf>	en	0.956281	0.020228
Archive for the ‘Operating Systems’ Category Connecting Mavericks to a Freebox: Oh the pain! I’m very frustrated. Today, I wasted basically two or three hours fighting unreliable software implementing one of the most basic features in the world of networking, namely file sharing. I ought to be simple, it used to work, but if my experience is representative, it’s complexly broken nowadays. Grenouille bouillie. What I tried to do is not that complicated. We have a Freebox at home, it’s basically a DSL modem with many features, including the possibility to act as a NAS. So I connected my external drives, and tried to connect to them with my Macs. It worked. I was happy. I started copying my files around. I noticed that it was very reactive. For example, I could eject a disk from the NAS user interface (a web GUI that is relatively well designed), and instantly, the file server would restart. I saw a message on the Macs saying that the server had shut down, and a couple of seconds later, I was back in business. Then something happened, and everything stopped working at once. It’s frustrating, because I know exactly what I did at that moment. I reformatted a disk with the NAS user interface. That disk was initially formatted as HFS+, which the NAS would expose as read only. So I reformatted it as Ext4. And suddenly, the file server stopped working, even when I removed the disk in question. That leads me to believe I changed something else without knowing it. Maybe the GUI changed some configuration behind my back? I have no idea. All I know is that I spent the last two hours trying to understand how to revert my configuration so that I would be able to share disks again. Symptoms: I connect to the NAS, and it refuses to show my disks. If I disable Mac sharing (AFP) and only enable PC sharing (SMB), then I can connect to the NAS, but somewhat unreliably. I suspect the problem is on the Mavericks side of things, because connexions to another NAS I have at home are equally flaky. One minute it transfers dozen of files per second, the next it’s as if I was writing to a floppy disk. Transfers from other protocols (e.g. using a web browser) are fast and reliable, so I don’t think it’s a Wifi or network issue. How annoying. Paul Graham recommends doing things that don’t scale As usual, Paul Graham writes an interesting piece about startups. He recommends doing things that don’t scale. Thinking like a big company is a sure way to fail. It’s a reassuring piece for the startup creator that I am, because at Taodyne, we are indeed in this phase where you do everything yourself and you’d need 48 hours a day to do the basics. Good to know that the solution to this problem is to keep working. Connect this to the survivor bias. This is a very serious cognitive bias, which makes us look only at the survivors, at the planes who return from combat, at the successful entrepreneurs. Because we don’t look at the dead startups or planes that were shot down, we build our statistics on a biased sample. As a result, we make incorrect assumptions. For example, if the planes that return have mostly been shot in the tail and wings, you might deduce that this is where planes are being shot at, so that’s the parts you need to protect, when in reality what this proves is that these are the parts that don’t prevent a plane from returning when shot. Very useful. Last interesting link of the day is the discussion about bullying on the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML). Sarah Sharp, a female Intel engineer, stands up to Linus Torvalds and asks him to stop verbal abuse. It’s an interesting conflict between very smart people. To me, there’s a lot of cultural difference at play here (one of the main topics of Grenouille Bouillie). For example, I learned from Torvalds what Management by Perkele means. On one side, it’s legitimate for Sarah to explain that she is offended by Linus’ behavior. On the other hand, it’s legitimate for Linus to keep doing what works. Sarah reminds me of a very good friend of mine and former colleague, Karen Noel, a very sharp engineer who joined me on the HPVM project and taught me everything I forgot about VMS. Like Sarah, Karen was willing to stand up her ground while remaining very polite. Apple backups and RAID are not reliable You’d think that if you use RAID1 and multiple redundant, distributed backups with hourly backups, daily backups, etc, you’d be safe? Think again. If your backup software lies to you, you may not realize it until it’s way too late. If you RAID software does not deem it worthy to mention that a disk failed, what good is it? Read more… Everything is broken and no one cares February 10, 2013 1 comment Everything is broken and no one cares This post from Dear Apple is just so true, and so clearly on topic for Grenouille Bouillie! Have we reached the point in complexity where we can’t make good quality products anymore? Or is that some kind of strategic choice? The original post is mostly about Apple products, but the same is true with Linux, with Android, with Windows. Here is my own list of additional bugs, focusing on those that can easily be reproduced: 1. Open a file named X in any of the new Apple applications, those without Save As. Open another file named Y. Save Y as X. Beachball. For every application. Worse yet, since applications often remember which windows were open, you get the beachball again when you reopen the application. It takes another force quit for the application to (fortunately) offer to not reopen the windows. 2. A relatively well known one now: Type F i l e : / / / in practically any OSX application. Without the spaces. Hang or assert depending on your luck. 3. Use a stereoscopic application like Tao Presentations ( Activate stereoscopy. Switch spaces or unplug an external monitor. Kernel panic or hang to be expected. Go tell to your customers that the kernel panic is Apple’s fault, not ours… 4. If you backup over the network, set your computer to sleep after say 1 hour while on power. Change your disk enough that the backup takes more than one hour. Backup disk will come up as corrupt after a couple of days, and OSX will suggest you start a new one (and the cycle will repeat). 5. Use the “Share” button. It takes forever to show up the window (like 2-3 seconds in general on my 2.6GHz quad-core i7 with 8GB of RAM). Since what I type generally begins with an uppercase letter, I usually prepare myself by having the finger on the shift key. But to that stupid animation framework, “shift” means “slow animation down so that Steve can demo it”. Steve is dead, but the “shift” behavior is still there. I’ll keep updating this list as more come to mind. Add your own favorite bugs in the comments. First update (Feb 13, 2013): 1. Safari often fails to refresh various portions of the screen. Visible in particular when used in combination with Redmine. This used to be very annoying, but it has gotten much better in more recent updates of Safari. 2. iTunes 11 no longer has Coverflow. It was a neat way to navigate in your music, which wasn’t even the default, why remove it? 3. Valgrind on OSX 10.8 is completely broken. I have no idea what’s wrong, but it’s a pretty useful tool for developers, and Apple has nothing in its own development tools that is even remotely close. 4. “Detect displays” is gone, both from the Monitors control panel and from the Monitors menu icon. Combine that with the fact that OSX 10.8, unlike its predecessors, sometimes totally fails to detect that you unplug a monitor. And you find yourself with windows stuck on a screen that is no longer there… 5. That little Monitor menu icon used to be quite handy, e.g. to select the right resolution when connecting to an external projector for the first time. Now, it’s entirely useless. It only offers mirroring, fails to show up 90% of the time when there is a possibility to do mirroring, shows up when mirroring is impossible (e.g. after you disconnected the projector). It used to be working and useful, it’s now broken and useless. What’s not to love? 6. Contacts used to have a way for me to format phone numbers the way I like. That’s gone. Now I have to accept the (broken) way it formats all phone numbers for me. 7. I used to be able to sync between iPhone and Contacts relatively reliably. Now, if there’s a way to remove a phone number, I’ve not found it. Old numbers I removed keep reappearing at the next sync, ensuring that I never know which of the 2, 3 or 4 phone numbers I have is the not dead one. 8. Still in Contacts, putting Facebook e-mail addresses as the first choice for my contacts? No thanks, it was heinous enough that Facebook replaced all genuine email addresses with aliases. But having that as the first one that pops up is really annoying. 9. Now fixed, but in the early 10.8, connecting a wired network when I also had Wifi on the same network would not give me higher speed. It would just drop all network connectivity. Updated February 28th after restoring a machine following a serious problem: 1. Time machine restores are only good if your target disk is at least as big. But with Apple’s recent move to SSD, this may no longer be affordable to you. In my case, I’d like to squeeze 1TB of data into 512G. Time machine does not give me the level of fine-grained control I’d need to restore what I really need. So I need to try and do it manually, which is a real pain. 2. Calendar sync is a real mess. Restoring calendars from a backup is worse. 3. Spaces? Where are my good old spaces? Why is it I had spaces on the original machine, no longer have them, and find myself unable to say “I want 6 spaces” or to setup keyboard shortcuts for them as they used to be. Is it normal to wait for your computer? Why should I wait 5 seconds when I click on a menu? Why does it sometimes take half a minute to open a new document? Developers, optimize your code, if only as a matter of public service! What about making it a New Year resolution? Why is my Mac laptop slower than my iPad? Apple cares about iPad performance Apple cares about iPad performance I have a serious issue with the fact that on a laptop with 8G of RAM, 1TB of hard disk, a quad-core 2GHz i7, I spend my time waiting. All the time. For long, horribly annoying pauses. Just typing these few paragraphs had Safari go into “pause” twice. I type something and it takes ten seconds or so with nothing showing up on screen, and then it catches up. Whaaaaat? How did programmers manage to write code so horribly that a computer with a quad-core 2.6GHz i7 can’t even keep up with my typing? Seriously? The Apple II, with its glorious 1MHz 8-bit 6502 never had trouble keeping up, no matter how fast I typed. Nor did Snow Leopard, for that matter… Even today, why is it that I always find myself waiting for my Mac as soon as I have 5 to 10 applications open, when a poor iPad always feel responsive even with 20 or 30 applications open at the same time? Aren’t we talking about the same company (Apple)? About the same core operating system (Darwin being the core of both iOS and OSX)? So what’s the difference? The difference, folks, is optimizations. Code for iOS is tuned, tight, fit. Applications are programmed with severe hardware limitations in mind. The iPad, for instance, is very good at “pausing” applications that you are not using and recalling them quickly when you switch to them. Also, most applications are very careful in their use of resources, in particular memory and storage. Apple definitely cares about the performance of the iPad. There was a time the performance of the Mac mattered as well, but that was a long time ago. Boiled frog syndrome : we slowly got used to desktops or laptops being slower than tablets, but it’s just plain stupid. Lion and Mountain Lion are Dog Slow It's obvious why they called it Lion... It’s obvious why they called it Lion… I’ve been running every single version of MacOSX since the Rhapsody days. Up until Snow Leopard, each release was a definite improvement over the previous version. Lion and Mountain Lion, on the other hand, were a severe step backwards… Lion and Mountain Lion were not just loaded with features I didn’t care about (like crippling my address book with Facebook email addresses), they didn’t just break features I relied on on a daily basis (like full screen applications that works with multiple monitors, or RSS feeds). They were slow. We are not talking about small-scale slowness here. We are talking about molasses-fed slugs caught in a tar pit, of lag raised to an art form, of junk code piling up at an industrial scale, of inefficiency that makes soviet car design look good in comparison. And it’s not just me. My wife and my kids keep complaining that “the machine lags”. And it’s been the case with every single machine I “upgraded” to Lion or Mountain Lion. To the point where I’m not upgrading my other machines anymore. In my experience, the core issue is memory management. OSX Lion and Mountain Lion are much worse than their predecessors at handling multiple programs. On OSX, the primary rule of optimization seems to be “grab 1GB of memory first, ask questions later.” That makes sense if you are alone: RAM is faster than disk, by orders of magnitude, so copying stuff there is a good idea if you use it frequently. But if you share the RAM with other apps, you may push those other apps away from memory, a process called “paging“. Paging depends very largely on heuristics, and has major impact on performance. Because, you see, RAM is faster than disk, by orders of magnitude. And now, this plays against you. Here is an example of a heuristic that I believe was introduced in Lion: the OS apparently puts aside programs that you have not been using for a long while. A bit like an iPad, I guess. On the surface, this seems like a good idea. If you are not using them, free some memory for other programs. But this means that if I go away from my laptop and the screen saver kicks in, it will eat all available RAM and push other programs out. When I log back in… I have 3GB of free RAM and a spinning beach ball. Every time. And even if the screensaver does not run, other things like backupd (the backup daemon) or Spotlight surely will use a few gigabytes for, you know, copying files, indexing them, stuff. Boiled frog syndrome : we slowly got used to programs using thousands of Mac128K worth of memory to do simple things like running a screensaver. It’s preposterous. Tuning memory management is very hard Virtual Memory is complicated Virtual Memory is complicated The VM subsystem, responsible for memory management, was never particularly good in OSX. I remember a meeting with an Apple executive back in the times OSX was called Rhapsody. Apple engineers were all excited about the new memory management, which was admittedly an improvement over MacOS9. I told the Apple person I met that I could crash his Mac with 2 minutes at the keyboard, doing only things a normal user could do (i.e. no Terminal…) He laughed at me, gave me his keyboard and refused to even save documents. Foolish, that. I went to the ancestor of, opened a document, clicked on “Zoom” repeatedly until the zoom factor was about 6400% or so. See, in these times, the application was apparently allocating a buffer for rendering that was growing as you zoomed. The machine crawled to a halt, as it started paging these gigabytes in and out just to draw the preview on the screen. “It’s dead, Jim“, time to reboot with a long, hard and somewhat angry press on the Power button. That particular problem was fixed, but not the underlying issue, which is a philosophical decision to take control away from users in the name of “simplicity“. OS9 allowed me to say that an App was supposed to use 8M of RAM. OSX does not. I wish I could say: “Screen Saver can use 256M of RAM. If it wants more, have it page to disk, not the other apps.” If there is a way to do that, I have not found it. Boiled frog syndrome : we have slowly been accustomed by software vendors to give away control. But lack of control is not a feature. Faster machines are not faster A 1986 Mac beats a 2007 PC A 1986 Mac beats a 2007 PC One issue with poor optimizations is that faster machines, with much faster CPUs, GPUs and hard disks, are not actually faster to perform the tasks the user expects from them, because they are burdened with much higher loads. It’s as if developers always stopped at the limit of what the machine can do. It actually makes business sense, because you get the most of your machine. But it also means its easy to push the machine right over the edge. And more to the point, an original 1986 Mac Plus will execute programs designed for it faster than a 2007 machine. I bet this would still hold in 2013. So if you have been brainwashed by “Premature optimization is the root of all evil“, you should forget that. Optimizing is good. Optimize where it matters. Always. Or, as a colleague of mine once put it, “belated pessimization is the leaf of no good.” Boiled frog syndrome : we have slowly been accustomed to our machines running inefficient code. But inefficiency is not law of nature. Actually, in the natural world, inefficiency gets you killed. So… Apple started decaying before Steve Jobs’ death Sad MacMany have wondered what would happen to Apple after Steve Job’s death. I’m afraid things started to go south at Infinite Loop long before Steve passed away. Case in point: Mac OSX Lion, which I think is the worst version of MacOSX ever (and I’ve used all of them since Rhapsody). What’s wrong with MacOSX Lion? While there are a number of relatively useful features in OSX Lion, like being able to resize a window from all sides (granted, not exactly a new feature in the computer world), the general philosophy of that OS seems to be “We know better“. A computer company that thinks it knows better than me how I should use my own computer? Let’s not get used to it. I will illustrate this with three real-life cases: • Ten minutes to reboot on a Core i7 laptop is not cool. • How I came to positively hate the mandatory auto-save feature. • The sad story of Quit, Select All, Undo and Close Window. There are a few other smaller cases that I will brush on quickly at the end. Like the broken replacement for good ol’ Save-As, the stereoscopy crashes, the mysterious unimprovements to Spaces, the Screen Saver of Doom… Ten minutes to reboot is not cool Many know the great story of Steve Jobs telling an early Mac engineer that making Macs boot faster would save lives. This lesson seems to have been forgotten these days. This morning, I had a kernel panic in Lion (a not so uncommon occurrence, sadly). So I was forced to reboot. And what happened next prompted me to write this blog entry. Crashing is enough of a waste of time. But then, MacOS X Lion aggravated that by reloading every single tiny window I happened to have open at the time of the crash. And not letting me do anything in the meantime, because you see, it was busy, it had better things to do than even letting me quit an application. Being able to quit an application is what I took as an indication that the system was done booting. It’s as good a measure as any, since if you can’t quit an application, you can’t do much else. And it took more than 10 minutes for me to be able to quit Firefox: I booted the machine at 7:02 (according to uptime), Firefox accepted to quit at 7:14. In the meantime, OSX Lion had reloaded, for my own good: 1. Mail, with 7 windows 2. Pages, with 4 documents 3. Numbers, with 6 documents 4. Keynote, without any document open, but hey, what’s wrong with launching it anyway? 5. Terminal, with 2 windows, one of them was running a build. There’s a severe bug in OSX Lion restore-everything-at-reboot-time functionality: it didn’t restart my build! 6. Safari, with 8 web sites, including two with videos I had already seen. 7. Firefox, with 2 web sites, which I certainly didn’t wan tot re-open since they were payments. 8. iTunes (which helpfully started downloading new contents) While the system attempts to “please” you in some demented sense of “pleasing”, there’s very little you can do but wait. Actually, you need to do a little more than that, because the machine will occasionally ask for passwords or pop up some dialog box. And it does so in such a random fashion that even reading mail is difficult. All the more so because the machine is so busy re-indexing its Spotlight database and downloading iTunes contents you really don’t care about right now that everything crawls. Even switching windows is difficult, even borderline hazardous. You think you brought up one window, but then the system shows another one right at the moment you click or close something or do something dangerous, and bam, the one and only window you didn’t want to close vanishes from the screen! What is so infuriating about this incredibly stupid behavior of OSX Lion is that practically every single time I rebooted my machine, I unchecked that little box asking if I want to re-open my windows when I log back in. Can’t OSX Lion get the hint? If it’s smart enough to save my windows at the time of a kernel panic (of all times), can’t it save a little preference like “I don’t want you to re-open windows at boot time, ever”, without forcing me to resort to command line hacks. Yes, I know how to fix it. It’s a script like this one: echo "#!/bin/bash" > /tmp/ echo "rm /Users//Library/Preferences/ByHost/" >> /tmp/ mv /tmp/ /usr/bin/ chmod +x /usr/bin/ defaults write LoginHook /usr/bin/ Having to resort to something like is really annoying. And if Apple really didn’t want to store the “reopen windows” user choice in preferences, then it shouldn’t be a check-box. It should have been a separate action button, just like “Shutdown” and “Restart”. I’m clearly not the only one who dislikes that features. If you look up on the web, you’d be hard pressed to find any site that explains how great that feature is. Instead, you’ll find dozen of places telling you how to disable it. So it’s a useless feature compounded with a bad UI made more annoying by a blatant disrespect for user preferences. That seems to be the general theme for changes in OSX Lion. Let’s not get used to it. How I came to hate the mandatory auto-save feature Another feature that follows the exact same pattern is the mandatory auto-save feature in applications like Pages, Numbers, Keynote, etc. What this feature does looks good on paper. It helpfully saves things for you at regular interval. Since Apple implemented for Time Machine a relatively nice way to version files, Apple used that to offer a kind of per-document Time Machine. Isn’t that a great idea? The problem with that auto-save is that it doesn’t scale, and that there is no way to turn it off, even temporarily. So here is what happened to me once. I was animating an event, and for some reason, they decided to use my laptop as the main machine connected to the projector. So they gave me this 150 pages Keynote made by copy-pasting together a dozen or so slide decks. So far, so good. Then, various people started coming to me asking if they could change a word here, copy a new slide there, etc. Guess what: it took over one minute to save the 150 pages document. My guess is that Keynote uses a brain-dead algorithm to decide when to auto-save, something like “if something changed and if the last auto-stave started more than 30 seconds ago”. Just a wild guess. What I observed, though, is that it doesn’t check that after you do an operation, but before executing the next operation you request. All these harebrained design decisions blend together in a perfectly distasteful mix. You hit a key. Keynote shows your keypress. You hit another key. Keynote detects it should auto-save. The save takes more than one minute. The “saving takes a long time” progress dialog shows up and eats the key you typed! So you need to type again, very fast. But usually you don’t succeed. Same with mouse clicks. You send mouse clicks that get eaten by the stupid “Please wait while I’m saving” progress dialog. Who decided to call this a “progress” dialog? It’s not progress! Anyway, after a very painful 15 minutes trying to make this work, here is how I ended up doing things: I started another Keynote instance, edited slides one at a time there, and once it was done, I would copy things back in the original Keynote document. But talk about a counter-productive exercise fighting a badly designed UI that won’t accept my preferences (namely: I don’t want to auto-save. Period. I hit Command-S when I’m happy. I know what I’m doing.) Quit, Select All, Close and Undo The third scenario I came to hate in OSX Lion is much more specific. See, I’m French, so I often have to type French text. And I’m a coder, so I often have to write English text or computer code. At some point in my past, I started taking the habit of typing French text in the native French keyboard, which is AZERTY, and English text in QWERTY I don’t think many other people do this, but to me, that means faster typing in both cases. In English, I can type all the wonderful special characters used in code, like [ and ]. In French, I have easy access to all the wonderful àccénts that pepper our language (and, by the way, in defense of Jean Dujardin, “Putain” is more like an accent than a swear word in French; it doesn’t really mean “Whore” anymore than, say, “OK” means “all correct” or “gay” means “in a good mood”). A and Qs flip automatically when I’m typing French. If anything, that shows how flexible the human brain is. There’s just one little problem with that clever scheme: keyboard shortcuts. It so happens that Command-Q (Quit), Command-A (Select All), Command-Z (Undo) and Command-W (Close window) are some of the most frequently used shortcuts of all. And unfortunately, they flip places when I switch languages. And unlike complete words, which my brain has “short-circuited” to the correct keyboard layout depending on language, they have no context, no language associated with them. So often, I want to Undo, and instead I Close the Window. So what does this have to do with OSX Lion, you may ask? Well, the auto-save feature has, for me, a very nasty side effect. If a document has been modified, OSX Lion no longer asks if you want to close it or save it. That dialog box that used to pop was my saving grace in the old days. If I hit Command-W instead of Command-Z, then the dialog box would pop up, I’d hit ESC and hit Command-Z. No harm done. Nowadays, my window vanishes, and with it, all my undo history. In other words, at the exact time I want to undo something, MacOSX Lion finds a way to erase the entire undo history! Of course, Apple engineers know better. Their reasoning must have been that the auto-save feature is like a kind of persistent undo to disk. Unfortunately, auto-save and Time Machine are nothing like undo. Undo remembers the actions. Auto-save remembers the result. So Time Machine is way way slower to activate, and it makes it harder to find where a document actually changed. So a couple of times a day, I close a document by mistake, and I swear. Nothing has been closer to turining my Macbook into some unidentified flying object than this feature. At some point, I’ll find the time to disable that auto-save feature as well, in a way that doesn’t break other things. Then, there’s the small stuff OSX Lion’s disregard for users’ taste and preferences permeates throughout. It looks more like a design philosophy than an accident. There’s the odd reversal of the trackpad scrolling behavior. This one at least can be configured. But either you stick with the default, and you are backwards each time you return to a Windows, Linux, older MacOSX machine. Or you change it, and you are backwards each time you return to a Lion box that is configured with the default. There’s the new technique for “Save As”. It used to be “Save As”, Command-Shift-S, select the new file name (defaults to the document’s directory). Basically, one keystroke. Now, it is “Duplicate” (no keyboard shortcut), close the old window, Save (which now defaults to the Desktop rather than where the original document was), find the original location, save. So you have replaced one keyboards shortcut with 4 to a good dozen clicks depending on where your original document was. And “Duplicate” seems to use more memory and take more time than Save As (maybe it saves the document somewhere?) The benefits? Hmmm. I don’t see any, it seems like a less intelligent way to do the same thing as before. Stereoscopy is a minor nuisance to the majority of people. But it turns out Taodyne, my company, produces a 3D presentation software. Something like Flash blending with Avatar. One of the ways we generate stereoscopic images is with the OpenGL Quad buffer support. It was broken in 10.6.1: when our application ran, switching spaces would kill the window server. I reported it to Apple, it was fixed in 10.6.2. It was broken again in Lion (10.7.0). Only this time the crash is a random kernel panic or system freeze, a bit more serious. I reported it three times to Apple. It’s still there. Overall, Spaces and the Window server are nowhere as good as they used to be. When you switch spaces, it used to be smooth. You used to have a single desktop background. Now, it’s not smooth. Sometimes, windows won’t drag from one space to another. Spaces can be “out of order” (i.e. the number keyboard shortcuts no longer correspond to the logical layout of the spaces). The windows that MacOSX Lion insists on reopening at startup don’t reopen in their original space. And so on. It’s more than just spaces. For example, using full screen app mode on dual-screen setups makes one of the monitors become unusable (covered with a oh-so-nice Lionesque background). Try watching a DVD full screen on one monitor while you do something on the other. Worked like a charm in Snow Leopard, impossible to do in Lion. Try putting the DVD player full screen on your TV while the menu is on the main screen of your laptop (just because most HD TVs overscan, so putting the menu there means you don’t see it). Nope, Lion knows better, it will bring the full screen picture where the menu is, not when the window is. That also worked in Snow Leopard. And there’s another one of my favorites, the Screen Saver of Doom. Some screen savers in OSX Lion consume all the memory they can. They evict all the useful stuff away. So when it’s time to log back in, you see your keystrokes show up. one. at. a. time. And by the time you logged back in, you see that 5G of your 8G of RAM are now free. For the next few minutes, every single application you will try to use will page stuff back in and be extremely unresponsive. That too is a nuisance. Let’s not get used to it. OSX Snow Leopard was a lean and mean operating system, just like its feline counterpart. OSX Lion takes on its role model as well: it’s big, heavy, slow, lazy, and it doesn’t care about you a tiny bit. Let’s just hope that Apple’s next OSX version, Mountain Lion, will not be smaller, less powerful but more dangerous than its predecessor… Unfortunately, I won’t hold my breath based on what we can gather from Apple’s sneak peek Making it more difficult to download third-party applications in the name of security? A chat application? Twitter support? A features page that has so little to show that it needs to boast on the US web site about stuff designed specifically for China? Seriously? I still want to believe that Apple will soon focus again on making their OS lean, mean and efficient like it used to be. Stereoscopy: What works, what doesn’t In the past months, we have been looking for a relatively cheap way to present the output of a 3D application using stereoscopy. Our objective was to see how an application could generate stereoscopic output using commercially-available low-cost hardware. Our expectation was that a budget 3D laptop and a budget 3D projector would make for a budget 3D presentation solution. The solution that ended up working was a total surprise to us, so I thought I’d share… Budget 3D laptop and projector We recently purchased two pieces of equipment with a “3D” sticker on them. One was an ACER Aspire 5740D laptop, the other was an Optoma DW318 projector. Both can be considered entry level hardware, around $700 each with glasses. This family of Acer laptops uses a polarized display and passive glasses. Even and odd scan-lines are polarized differently, meaning that you get half the vertical resolution when using stereoscopy. Native resolution is 1366×768. It comes equipped with an ATI Radeon 4570 and some 3D software from TriDef. It is also covered with at least 5 stickers and littered with various nagware (software based on the “we’ll bug you until you pay” school of design) and other software nuisances, almost guaranteeing a supremely annoying unpacking experience. The Optoma is labelled as “3D-ready”. It uses active glasses based on Texas Instrument’s DLP-Link technology. Native resolution is 1280×800. The active glasses mean that you get the full resolution with 120Hz frame-sequential input, with only a barely noticeable decrease in frame rate (60Hz for each eye). It can also reportedly take 60Hz field-sequential input up to 480i, but we didn’t test that. There is practically no manual (at least as far as 3D is concerned), and the manual that came with the glasses didn’t help much either (I’m still not sure I know how to switch the glasses off). No OpenGL stereoscopy on Windows Our test application uses standard OpenGL quad-buffer support. We need OpenGL because we want the application to run on Macs and Linux machines as well, not just Windows. So DirectX is a no-go. However, we also evaluated how things worked with DirectX just in case we had no other choice. With the Acer, the ATI “Catalyst” drivers simply tell us that there is no OpenGL quad buffer support. As soon as we try to use the buffers, we get an error (1282: Invalid operation). This is a disappointment, as quad-buffer support for DirectX was one of the advertised features for recent Catalyst drivers. Apparently, this only means that a third-party driver, either from iZ3D or TriDef, can silently convert non-stereoscopic games into stereoscopic games. It makes sense from a business point of view, since all the majority of users will care about is 3D games, which mostly use DirectX nowadays. But if you want to programmatically produce stereoscopic 3D-accelerated output using OpenGL, which should theoretically be simpler, it just doesn’t work out of the box. I spent a little bit of time trying to find drivers from iZ3D or TriDef that would support OpenGL quad-buffer on this machine. No such luck. • The iZ3D setup page prominently shows “OpenGL QB driver for iZ3D”. However, when I installed the driver, it didn’t work for me. Only DirectX would show up. It took me a while to see this little note somewhere: Note! OpenGL QB is for 32-bit systems only and can not be run properly on 64-bit systems. You guessed it: my system is 64-bit, so no OpenGL for me. • The experience with the TriDef setup was exactly similar. At first, it looks promising: “The DDD TriDef Visualizer Program is ideal for anyone interested in enabling their application for output to stereoscopic displays.” That is, until you click on the link to get the SDK, only to be told: PLEASE NOTE: TriDef Visualizer OpenGL SDK has been RETIRED and is no longer available for sale. If someone at Microsoft has been tasked with the job of killing OpenGL on Windows, it looks like they have been doing a rather good job. In any case, we were unable to find any combination of drivers on 64-bit Windows that would allow us to use 3D stereoscopy from OpenGL. If you know of any combination that works, please comment here. Working around lackluster OpenGL support The structure of the screen on the Acer is really simple. Every other line on the screen is polarized differently. So in order to produce a stereoscopic image, you don’t really need a driver. All you need is the good old OpenGL stencil buffer, as explained here. You then render one eye with all even lines masked out, and then another eye with all odd lines masked out. This worked well, and we were soon able to get some basic stereoscopy working. It only took a couple of hours of coding. I only wish this coding had not been necessary on a machine that came littered with 3D stickers and pictures of 3D pirates on the box! Then, we could start experimenting with stereoscopic rendering and judge by ourselves how the effect played out. Unfortunately, while it worked to some extent, it was not entirely satisfying… The drawbacks of interlaced stereoscopy The most annoying issue with this setup, as we quickly discovered, is that you lose half of the vertical resolution. It may not seem like much, but this actually makes text totally unreadable. “Who needs text in a stereoscopic display?“, you may wonder. Well, Google Earth, for one, uses a lot of text. And this is practically the only non-game application I managed to get working on the Acer with the built-in software. The problem is that the Windows user interface itself uses a fair amount of text and small drawings. Since the glasses actually block every other line, here is what your desktop looks like when you wear the glasses: Windows 7 desktop, as seen through passive glasses Windows 7 desktop, as seen through passive glasses The effect is actually much more annoying than that, because what your left eye and your right eye see is different. I just can’t stand looking at my desktop like this for long. So what happens is that you spend your time putting the glasses on, then removing them, then putting them back on. After a short while, the game stops being funny and you wish you had bought active glasses instead. This probably doesn’t impact gamers much, but in our case, it is almost a deal breaker… No stereoscopy on Windows with a low-cost projector In order to address this issue, our next experiment was with the Optoma DW318 projector. I got this projector from Saturn at a bargain price. The vendor was actually quite honest that they had not tried 3D and didn’t know if it worked. Also, this projector is marketed as “3D-ready”, so I wasn’t entirely sure that we’d get anywhere. But we naively hoped that if we connected a “3D-ready” projector to a laptop that has stereoscopic 3D support as its main selling point, we stood a decent change of getting a stereoscopic image on the projector. Boy! Were we naive last week! If the built-in stereoscopic software on the Acer laptop has any kind of support for the Optoma projector, it is rather well hidden. I tried various options, but as far as I can tell, stereoscopy on the Acer is meant to be restricted to the built-in screen. That’s rather odd! What would you think of a color laptop than can only supply black-and-white pictures to external displays? I tried supplementing the anemic built-in software. Downloading drivers from iZ3D, I was able to get a 3D image from their test and setup application. But still, I was not able to get a stereoscopic image from Google maps on the projector, however, something that works on the built-in screen of the Acer laptop. The overall feeling is that this stuff was rushed out of the door before it’s really ready. The Good Surprise: on a Mac, It Just Works! We also have Apple Macbook Pro notebooks and Linux laptops and virtual machines. During testing, Linux didn’t do much better than Windows. However, OpenGL on the Mac accepted quad-buffer (stereoscopic) mode. Compared to Windows, the primary difference was that we did not get the 0×502 = 1282 error (OpenGL invalid operation) when selecting the back-left or back-right buffers. Tweaking a bit, we had gotten what looked like a stereoscopic output on the built-in display of the Mac laptops or on external displays, with fuzzy blurry images. Of course, without glasses, that’s all these were: fuzzy blurry images, not that useful unless you can blink really really fast. Actually, everything was not all smooth and fuzzy at first. OpenGL was apparently doing something smart there, but we were clearly pushing it a bit. For example, if running an OpenGL application under the debugger and putting the laptop to sleep, MacOSX would die a little too often for my taste (like: almost every single time). Another interesting issue was that if you had any stereoscopic application running, switching desktops with Spaces would just kill the window server (the MacOSX blue screen of death). That was really annoying. I filed a couple of bug reports with Apple. Stereoscopy was apparently working to some extent, but it still made for a very un-Apple dangerous user experience. That was last month, when MacOSX 10.6.4 was all the rage. Imagine my surprise when 10.6.5 came out. All the issues I had were fixed with 10.6.5. And this certainly took some work from Apple engineers. Now, when you switch spaces with a stereoscopic application (and only a stereoscopic application), something happens that you can notice visually, almost as if some part of the window server was rebooted or something. It’s just weird, but at least, it’s just solid now. Kudos, Apple for fixing something that could easily have passed for a corner case with exactly one user in the world. Anyway, I figured that it was worth trying to hook a Macbook Pro to the projector and see what we got. And IT JUST WORKED! We got perfect, high quality stereoscopic images the first time we tried. Or almost. How can you make glasses complicated? Clearly, I had two pictures on the screen. And when I wore the glasses, I had only one picture. So something was working. But the result was still disappointing. It looked boringly flat, nothing like what I expected. I tried several settings on the projector, checked that 3D was enabled in the firmware menu. I adjusted the eye distance to try to increase the depth. The effect of increasing eye distance was clearly visible with the naked eye, as the left and right pictures became more distant from one another. But with the glasses, still no feeling of depth. Until I tried to switch off the glasses while wearing them, using the little red button. And I noticed that the picture moved. It was still flat, but it had moved in front of me. Hmmm?!? So I tried again to see if the picture would move again. And I almost fell on my back. The effect was intense, in no small part because I had pushed the eye distance so high. A few adjustments later, I was back to the original setting, and I had true, breathtaking stereoscopy. Guess what: some bozo working for Optoma or whoever designed the glasses thought it was a good idea to have three settings: left eye only, right eye only and stereoscopic. I’m sure there’s a good reason for that, but as far as I can tell, the manual only talks about on and off settings. Trying Windows on a Macintosh Once we knew that the Macs could drive the Optoma projctor in stereoscopic mode, we thought we also had a Windows solution. See, all recent Macs can run Windows using Bootcamp. We figured that it was a simple matter of switching to Windows, installing the latest Nvidia drivers, and boom. Well, not quite. First, Nvidia won’t let us install drivers on a Mac. We are supposed to ask Apple. Of course, there are workarounds. So quickly, we were able to get the latest drivers to install on the Mac. These drivers that are ostensibly designed for stereoscopy. But it still doesn’t work with the Optoma projector. See, Nvidia has their own little 3D project called 3Dvision. You’d think that since 3Dvision is about supporting stereoscopy, we stood a chance of making it work with an Optoma stereoscopic projector. And you’d be wrong. It doesn’t work. With OpenGL, you get the same dreaded error 1282. According to some posts on the Internet, it used to work relatively well with much older Nvidia drivers and cards. But apparently, Nvidia is now trying to leverage their position as a key provider of graphics chips to force third parties to “certify” projectors. The Optoma HD67 is certified and reportedly recognized by 3Dvision drivers. The DW318 is not certified, and therefore not recognized. If this is a trick to try and force me to buy Nvidia glasses, it’s not just a cheap trick, it’s a stupid trick. The Nvidia solution uses a small infrared emitter. If I’m projecting on a large screen, I doubt this emitter would be good enough to cover a medium-sized room. I suspect that the technique used in DLP-Link, which uses data sent on the screen by the projector, is much better suited to sharing with a large audience. Anyway, the very same Optoma projector just works on the very same Macbook pro when running MacOSX instead of Windows 7. So this is clearly a software block from Nvidia rather than some subtle hardware limitation. If you are the Nvidia or Microsoft bozo who is responsible for this fiasco, here is a hint: why don’t you get it fixed? Conclusion: Don’t Trust Marketing To summarize my experience: • The Acer 5740DG offers some basic stereoscopy, but support for OpenGL is underwhelming. OpenGL stereoscopy won’t work with the pre-installed 64-bit version of Windows 7. This Acer laptop is designed primarily for games, although it may be a bit underpowered for that purpose. For any windowed 3D application, or any application that shows text, dialog boxes or other small elements, the stereoscopic experience is highly frustrating because you don’t see half of the screen while wearing the glasses. • The Optoma DW318 is a very capable 3D projector if you can make it work in your configuration. The picture is actually much better with the glasses in stereoscopy mode, with rich deep blacks and well balanced colors. Without the glasses, the picture looks a bit washed out. Still, it’s a decent value, and a good way to demo stereoscopy to more than one person. I only wish they didn’t charge $100 or so for a pair of cheap plastic glasses with $0.0027 worth of electronics components in them. • Nvidia and ATI are both equally incompetent at delivering OpenGL stereoscopy on Windows 7. Part of it may be Microsoft pushing DirectX, but I believe the driver vendors are equally to blame. I couldn’t get OpenGL stereoscopy to work whether with ATI or Nvidia, whether with built-in screens or external projectors. • MacOSX 10.6.5 has full support for OpenGL stereoscopy, and when connected to a 3D-ready projector like the Optoma DW318, it just works the way it should. This is advertised nowhere, which makes it even sweeter. In short, those who talk the most about 3D (Nvidia, Acer) are those who deliver the least. By contrast, Apple, who doesn’t say a word about stereoscopy, delivers flawless OpenGL stereoscopy support as far as I can tell. And Optoma, who labels its DW318 with a rather understated “3D-ready”, has made the process of projecting in 3D both inexpensive and painless. From language to platform… September 19, 2010 10 comments Reading this article comparing applications platform, I couldn’t help but think: “nothing new under the sun”. History is repeating itself In the 1980′s, a war raged between programmers. The reason for the war? Which programming language to use for applications. There were many candidates, compiled languages such as C or Pascal, interpreted languages such as BASIC, and “bizarre” languages such as Lisp, Prolog or Smalltalk. For all the uncertainty, things were not really open for discussion: each side knew they were absolutely right. Total war! Example: Turbo Pascal vs. QuickC. In the 1990′s, a war raged between programmers. The reason for the war? Which operating system to use for applications. There were many candidates, text-based DOS, elegant or copycat graphical user interfaces such as Macintosh or Windows, as well as “bizarre” server operating systems such as Unix, Novell Netware or Linux. For all the uncertainty, things were not really open for discussion: each side knew they were right, and they knew their side had to win for them to make money. Total war! Example: Apple suing Microsoft over the Graphical User Interface. In the 2000′s, a war raged between programmers. The reason for the war? Which execution environment to use for application? There were many candidates: client side native environments such as Windows or MacOS, browser-based virtual machines such as Java, as well as bizarre models such as VMware-style virtual machines, massively distributed systems (aka “the cloud”) or web services. For all the uncertainty, things were not really open for discussion. Each side preferred their model, and they knew that the financial stakes were high. Total war! Example: Sun suing Microsoft repeatedly over Java. In the 2010, a war rages between programmers. The reason for the war? Which platform to use for applications. There are many candidates: desktop clients that won’t die, the iOS and Android mobile platforms, as well as “bizarre” platforms such as Facebook, Google Wave, Twitter, even good old TVs. For all the uncertainty, things were not really open for discussion. Each side has to be compatible and integrate with everybody else, but the financial stakes are mind-boggling. Total war! Example: the iTunes Ping – Facebook integration debacle. The open platform wins Of course, one can draw many conclusions from this parallel. For example, that programmers didn’t really take to heart the Make Love, Not War slogan, and instead would rather rally to “make war, not love” cries. Cheap shot! Cheap shot! More seriously, I find it more interesting to observe who won over time. And in each case, it looks to me like the “more open” side won: • Pascal was criticized as being too closed compared to C. Ultimately, C won over Pascal. As an aside, the article “Why Pascal is not my favourite programming language” seems hard to find on Google these days. I hope it’s not slowly disappearing from the Internet… • The Macintosh was perceived as less open than Windows. Ultimately, Windows won over the Macintosh. • Sun positioned Java as “write once, run anywhere”, making it the open alternative to closed systems such as Windows or Macintosh. Customers came to associate distributed systems with freedom. Perception matters here, because if you think about it, you own Google Docs contents much less than documents on your hard disk. Still, the cloud and distributed system came out as the winners. • Finally, there is a strong perception that the iPhone is closed and Android is open. There are enough privacy concerns about how the “closed” Facebook to spur an open-source alternative, Diaspora. Features are less important The result that the more open approach wins in the long run is not entirely intuitive. Naively, one is tempted to believe that platform control is important, that features and quality will help secure a position in the long run. And often, these things do wonders at the beginning. But look who had the head start and the better features: • Pascal was published slightly before C (1970 vs. 1972), and most people at the time found it cleaner. • The Macintosh operating system appeared before Windows, and at least until Windows 95, was significantly more polished, on the user experience front as well as on the features it offered programmers. • Native operating systems had more features and higher performance than Java-style or VMware-style virtual machines. The same holds true for the internal architecture, for the overall design, for the ease of integration, even for the pace at which things changed. Arguably, for example, Pascal changed more rapidly than C, Turbo Pascal introducing for example instant compilation, modules, graphics and what we would call an IDE today. Keep it open! If you build a system for developers today, you can make short term wins if you design it well, make it easy to extend, and secure a few control points. In the long run, however, what matters is whether your system will be perceived as “open”. LeMag IT article about HPVM Sorry for my non-French readers, here is an article from LeMag IT about HPVM, who several colleagues forwarded me. This is also probably the first time someone links to the Taodyne web site. Welcome to the readers of LeMag IT who decided to follow the link to my blog… HP DE200C Digital Entertainment Center I finally took some time to put back together my good old trusted HP DE200C Digital Entertainment Center, and I thought I would share the result: In my opinion, this is a good illustration of the kind of innovation open-source brings. The software stack is pure free and open-source software. That allowed me to add my two cents contribution (driver for the Vacuum Fluorescent Display, support for the remote-control and front-panel keys). But equally important, it shows the kind of innovative hardware that Hewlett-Packard was putting together back in 2001, seven years ago now… Kudos to Lee Devlin and other people who gave us this great toy. The source code for my little contributions can be found at the Noritake VFD driver, the LCDproc changes and the Linux kernel changes. I had some trouble pushing the git repository for the last one, so here is a patch against 2.6.26, which may be easier for most. Get every new post delivered to your Inbox. Join 365 other followers %d bloggers like this:	https://grenouillebouillie.wordpress.com/category/computing/operating-systems/	<urn:uuid:3821f14c-1346-41ec-b909-aff70888fb2f>	en	0.952132	0.036138
Maura's house was well lit, at least on the ground floor, and the kitchen windows were steamed to soften the view of whatever was taking place inside. Coming up the walk, one could smell tantalizing, mouth-watering fragrances. As the door opened, Maura called above the sound of sizzling, "I hope you brought Jo Friday with you. I'm making steak Diane, and there'll be leftovers." She was in her element now, more self-assured now that she was in her own space. The music playing throughout the house on her state-of-the-art sound system was Prince, her go-to, feelgood music for when she wanted to feel normal. She'd once confided in Jane that not only did she enjoy the music, in a modern sort of way, but she felt that he had a God-given gift for filthy lyrics, and she loved listening to the way he said them. The table was already set with her second-best set of china, the good silver, and the crystal stemware that she preferred for occasions that didn't merit the very best. It was a message, but one that could have been read in several ways. Maura came out of the kitchen long enough to get a kiss hello, and stuck around to admire the way Jane looked in that suit. "Oh, my word," she said, as she usually did whenever Jane wore it. "You know, I could just not answer the door when they get here. As spectacular as that suit looks on you, I bet it would look even better scattered from here to the bedroom." She'd been working on that one, awaiting just the right chance to use it. She didn't look at all shabby, either, in her shantung silk dress, cashmere shrug, and the pearls she'd once mentioned had come to her from her mother's mother. The outfit was barely covered at all in her apron, and for once, she wasn't wearing the no-nonsense chef's apron, nor even her surgical scrubs. Instead, it was a lacy, frilly thing of ruffled organza, just the sort of apron that was designed to say, I am in charge of this household. This is my cloak of office. You eat my bounty, thanks to my skill in preparing it. An apron like this one didn't protect her clothing at all, but rather, gave the appearance almost of lingerie. She knew Jane liked it; had picked it out on purpose. "Or we could leave the door unlocked and stay right here. I never did have the quintessential adolescent experience of being walked in on, in flagrante. What do you say?" Jane wrapped her arms around Maura's waist, pulling her close but making sure to keep the small woman from rubbing against the gun and badge hidden underneath her suit jacket. "I'd say I've had that experience, and it's not as much fun when it's happening as it is funny to tell it later." She kissed the blonde again. "I'd also say that I see you've been working on your pickup lines, and I'm very tempted to take you up on the offer." She stole another kiss as she ran her fingers down the side frill of the apron. "I'd also say that we should probably just do this thing with your parents and move on. It's not going to be any easier later." She stepped back, but kept her hands on Maura's hips. "So, you think I look okay? I know you bought the suit… and the shoes… but I'm always worried that I'll get something wrong with the jewelry or whatever. Plus, I'm never comfortable in this color for some reason." She continued to ask for reassurance with her eyes as she dropped her hands to her sides. "Suit yourself," Maura replied with would-be breeziness, pressing back in for one more fervent embrace even as the timer dinged to tell her the vegetables were roasted sufficiently and now the oven was on 'keep warm' mode. "And yes, you look fantastic. At least, you look like my fantasies. Well chosen earrings, necklace from your grandmother. You did something new with your hair, too - I like it when I can see your neck. Hm, what's this?" she added, slipping her hands beneath the jacket. "Why, Detective, is that a gun in your holster, or are you just pleased to see me?" Another pickup line, but at least it was a longstanding joke that Jane always came prepared for a multitude of possibilities. "Let's hope you won't need that. Or the cuffs that I know you also brought." "I always knew you were a handcuff girl deep down." Jane grinned. "Besides, you know I'm on duty tonight." She straightened her jacket, "And your place doesn't have a secured location for my piece. So, I kind of have to wear it." Maura took another long look over Jane's suit and the physique that it displayed so well. "I don't need cuffs," she said with a wink, "to have you at my mercy. Nor do you need them to have me at yours." Other timers began to ding and beep, and with reluctance, Maura stepped back again towards the kitchen. "My parents will be here in five minutes, if they're coming at all," she mentioned. "I doubt they'll need it, but I readied the guest room for them in case they drink, because I'm fairly certain that they'll be giving Mr. Charles the night off. They typically do, whenever they go to any place that doesn't have other domestics for him to visit." Jane nodded her understanding as she followed Maura into the kitchen. "They'll come, and we'll be ready." As if it were timed, the doorbell rang. "Do you want me to get it?" Jane waited, wanting to do whatever would make Maura's life easiest. Maura startled, but took a deep breath and calmed herself. "N... Yes, actually. If you open the door, then they get to see you welcoming them, and I'll get the chance to go turn off my kid music. They don't enjoy Prince." She trotted back to the living room to switch to something classical and neutral, something with lots of cello, subdued enough to barely provide undercurrent rather than impeding conversation. The detective's posture straightened. She held herself with a confidence she did not actually possess, but she was determined to be in control with Maura tonight and not allow Maura's mother to control the situation. If her years of training on the force had taught her anything, it was that sometimes exuding confidence even when you do not actually have it will help to secure an otherwise shaky situation. With a small smile gracing her lips, she opened the door. "Dr. and Mrs. Isles, please come in. We're delighted you could come tonight." She stepped aside to allow the older couple to enter. Mentally, she checked herself to make certain everything she said was grammatically correct and properly spoken. Tonight she would be on full alert. Dr. Isles entered, hand at the small of his wife's back. He offered another handshake, this one as warm as the one at the restaurant earlier that day. "Lovely to see you again, my dear. Call me Arthur," he replied, eyes sincere and a little amused. He didn't miss the implication of Jane answering the door, demonstrating the fact that she was at home here, and a co-hostess with his daughter. He winked on his way past; he was already on her side. Mrs. Isles had regained quite a bit of equanimity, to the point that, if they hadn't seen how she reacted to the surprise at lunch, one might not have realized she wasn't entirely charmed. "Good evening, Detective Rizzoli. Am I pronouncing that correctly?" She removed her wrap and held it out as if uncertain what to do with it, without someone coming to take it from her. Just then, Maura entered, hair freshly brushed, and plucked the wrap out of her mother's waiting hand. "Good evening, Mother, Daddy. Let me take that; the coat closet is right here. You have perfect timing, as usual. The food's ready, as of two minutes ago. Shall we go into the dining room so I can serve?" She hung the wrap and closed the closet door, then mentioned, "Watch out for Bass. I believe he's hiding in the bedroom right now, but in case he's out, I don't want anyone to trip." Without rushing, Maura's parents followed her into the dining room, not as large as the one they had at home, but then, she didn't have large and lavish dinner parties very often. Charlotte Isles glanced over the place settings and smiled in the way that suggested she wasn't actually all that happy. "That isn't your grandmother's china," she mentioned as she started to sit at the head of the table, then was nudged to a side seat by Arthur. "Don't tell me you broke it." Maura's eyes closed as she calmed herself, then smiled with a bit more genuineness. "No, Mother, I haven't broken Gram's china set. I save that for holidays. I thought you might prefer to know how I live when it isn't a special occasion. After all, it's not like you're here for an official inspection." Behind her, Arthur listened to the explanation with subtle delight before lifting a finger to gently chide Maura. She winked back at him: message sent. She would not behave as if she needed their approval or permission, not with her dishes and not with anything else. "I see." Mrs. Isles waited for her husband to pull out the chair. He graciously did so, helping her settle into the place he had so artfully guided her to a moment before. "I must say, darling, I'm surprised you still have that turtle. I thought you would have sent him to a reserve by now." "Tortoise." It was out of Jane's mouth before she could stop herself, and it was only by the grace of years of training that her face did not show the sudden surprise she felt. "Tortoise," Maura said simultaneously with Jane. "Bass is a tortoise." The brunette gave Maura an apologetic look before clearing her throat and pushing ahead. "Arthur, why don't you don't you have a seat," she motioned to the chair across from his wife, but not at the head of the table, "Maura, let me help you with dinner… please." Her eyes were pleading with the doctor not to force her into any private time with Maura's parents. Maura echoed her father's smile of amusement as she leaned over each parent to hug their shoulders as they sat. The water glasses were already filled. "Thank you, Jane, I would appreciate that," she answered, giving Jane an easy way out. "Also, if either of you need to freshen up, there's a powder room just out that doorway and down the hall to the left." Both sat at the table for a moment, just for the sake of form, before Charlotte got up to go and wash her hands first. Arthur stood up and walked over to the china hutch, where the rest of the china and stemware were on display, to look over the various sets. His wife's mother's favorite set held pride of place on the upper shelves, he was glad to see, while his mother's set were - yes, he found them - on the lower shelves, boxed in satin china storage boxes. In fact, just the way he'd kept them all throughout his marriage, until Maura was of age to receive them. No doubt she did use them, when the occasion warranted, just as he had done. As Charlotte returned, Arthur closed the hutch doors and took his turn at the sink, while Charlotte sat down and surveyed the decor. The place was smaller than she'd anticipated, but then again, Maura hadn't married or had children yet. Given that, this house was suitable, she felt, for a single woman who was taking her time finding a husband. What was she doing with that detective person? Playing house, just like when she was a little girl? Did they plan to buy houses next to one another, each having twins who would marry one another someday? Charlotte didn't mind that notion, though she wondered whether a city employee would be able to afford either of the houses next door to Maura's. Perhaps she had family money; at least she was dressed better than she'd been this afternoon. Then again, one wouldn't want to wear a proper Armani suit to work when one worked in such prosaic surroundings, she supposed. In fact, Charlotte had already forgiven Jane for wearing clothes off the rack during the work day. After all, they had come from a good rack at a good store. In the kitchen, Maura put the salad into the salad bowl. "My parents will think this is an informal way of serving," she mentioned apologetically, "because I'm bringing it myself, and because I'll only be clearing plates once between the salad and main course, and once between main course and dessert. There shouldn't be any problem with utensils, but if you get confused, just go slow and watch me, okay? They... might be a little bit judgmental, but I really believe that you'll win them both over. My father already seems to think you hung the moon just because you didn't become flustered this afternoon." Jane leaned against the sink as Maura pulled things together. "Well, that's something, I guess." She sighed heavily. "Oh God, Maura, I'm sorry. The thing about Bass was out of my mouth before I could stop it. I don't know what came over me. I can't believe I corrected your mother like that." She closed her eyes as she ran a hand over her face. "Maybe I should fake an emergency call? I mean, I might actually make this worse." The brunette let out a groan. "This is more stressful than dealing with Hoyt." She sighed. "Your pop…erm… father, did you notice he didn't let your mother sit at the head of the table?" Maura paused in her preparations, stood perfectly still for a moment, then gave vent to a little giggle as she resumed stirring together the salad dressing. "Actually, it was perfect. She knows full well what species Bass is. She's the one who gave him to me. She just wanted to see if you knew, and you did. My father loved it, too… Enough that he acknowledged the point by seating them both at the sides. I'd actually assumed that, as usual, they'd take the head and foot of the table. Apparently we've earned our adulthood stripes now. You did it just right, too. Jane, don't worry. At the very worst, after this night is over, we'll have had nothing to say to one another, so there'll be no arguments. If we do get into anything, it'll be things that need saying, and that will be healthy. If you feel you need to go, I won't stop you, but I really do want them to know that they're visiting us. They need to see us together in our space, if they're really going to transition to thinking of us as a unit. In fact, if you'd like to sit at the head of the table, do so. It will let them know where you stand with me, and it will also let me sit closer to the kitchen so I can fetch the main course more easily when it's time." She led the way back to the dining room, salad bowl in hand, nodding towards the serving tongs and the bottle of wine for Jane to bring. "Head of the table?" Jane mumbled to herself as she picked up bottle and tongs. "Oh man, I don't know about this. Ma is going to have a field day with this story tomorrow." She quietly slipped out of the kitchen to follow Maura's lead into the dining area. In the dining room, the Isleses were seated and speaking quietly. Arthur's low voice didn't carry well, but he had excellent diction, so one could hear little tidbits coming down the hallway. "...her choice, and our duty and privilege as parents is to support her in it. This Jane Rizzoli must have some very fine qualities, if Maura loves her." Charlotte's voice, on the other hand, carried fairly well. "What will people say, Arthur? This just isn't done. How will they be received in society? People believe it's a sin, Arthur, and before you tell me we don't know that they're engaging in physical acts, let me tell you, people don't need to know facts in order to make judgments. I don't want Maura to be ostracized again. I can't stand it when they hurt her. She'll never understand why, either. For the love of God, she could have at least been discreet about it. Nobody minds what they don't know about, but right out in the middle of the club? How many people saw them like that today?" She was quiet, whispering, but with the sort of hiss that only a four-year-old thinks is quiet, fanning herself, looking wild-eyed. Maura halted right in the doorway as she came face to face with her mother's panicked expression. It took her several seconds to resume her path, setting down the salad bowl and rushing to her mother's side. "Shh, hush, Mama. Breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth. I'm okay, Mama, I'm okay. I'm okay. No one's hurting me. Shh." Calming, competent hands held her mother to her chest as the source of Maura's emotional tendencies became clear. "No one's hurting me, Mama. Jane wouldn't let them." The sight before her threw Jane into protective mode, all thought of not causing a scene or offending Maura's parents leaving her as she gave the speech she'd given so often to people who were trying to push her or Maura around. "Damn straight." Another slip of Jane's tongue as she allowed her trademark swagger to take over her steps. "No one is going to hurt Maura on my watch." She gently set the dressing down and placed the tongs in the salad bowl, ignoring the etiquette she was certain she was breaking by doing so. "Maura deserves better than she's had in the past. She deserves respect, to be treated well, and there's no way I'm going to let a bunch of uneducated, adolescent acting, prejudiced, idiots make her feel less than what she is." Jane sat down with a definitive air at the head of the table. "Which, for the record, is perfect." Three heads whipped towards Jane. Arthur's expression, shot to Jane on the sly, was one of quiet but deep approval as he nodded with finality and took his seat on his side of the table with a quiet, "That's exactly what I said to Charlotte's father," uttered at tones only meant for Jane to hear. Charlotte, recognizing the language, calmed down considerably. She still looked nervous, but no longer seemed to be restraining hostility; apparently, Jane's quiet authority rang a bell within her, trained as she was to respond to the nonverbal cues projected by someone who was well in charge of any given situation. Maura's face, on the other hand, shone with fierce, possessive pride. One hand fluttered towards her chest as she heaved a deep sigh, squeezed her mother's shoulders with the other arm, and took her spot at the foot of the table, nearest the doorway to the kitchen. "Damn straight," she echoed, and if Jane's swearing was an accident, hers was not. "Now that that concern has been met, and since the subject has been opened, are there other things that we need to talk about?" She remained standing to serve salad into each bowl. Charlotte reached out to pat Maura's hand. "I still worry, Maura. Are you sure this is what's best for you? It can be a lonely life, even with someone who loves you." Finally, the straight-backed woman glanced towards Jane with something approaching respect. "How will you live in society? If you don't marry, no one will acknowledge you." Maura took in her mother's expression, including the things not said aloud. Apparently, this family were quite good at those silent speeches. Then her eyes, so different from both parents' eyes, fixed upon Jane, and at last her father, before returning to Charlotte's face. Some decision was made. "I don't know how we'll deal with society. I do know how we won't deal with them. I won't be marrying a good man, having children by him, and relegating Jane to a secondary place in my life. I won't ask her to stay on and take on the duties of a personal assistant, turn her into a nanny for the children I would have with a husband, then into their governess, and then return to being my invisible assistant the moment my children have move out on their own. I won't ask her to accompany me on business trips just so we can be alone, but make her take a back seat whenever society comes calling and needs me to appear in public at a charity function with my husband. I love her too much to let her live in my shadow like that." She paused, one brow arching delicately towards Charlotte, who had grown white, then red. The caramel-blonde continued as she turned her compassionate, understanding, tender look onto her father. "And any man who would love me enough to be a figurehead without benefits for my sake... He would surely deserve better, too, such as the opportunity to live openly with his head of security." Jane raised an eyebrow as she looked from Arthur Isles to Charlotte Isles. With a smile playing at the corners of her lips, she gave the woman at the other end of the table an approving look. "Remind me never," she began with a quiet intensity, "to under estimate you, Maura." She made eye contact with Arthur. "It would take a pretty strong man to deal with something like that. I've seen people kill for less." "You'll find, Jane," Dr. Isles replied with a quiet dignity, "that, when you love someone enough, you're willing to do almost anything to keep them both safe and happy. But, perhaps you already know that?" "Yes." Jane replied, reflecting that same quiet dignity as she held Maura's gaze. "I don't like nor appreciate what is being insinuated. Maura, how could you say such a thing? And, Arthur, you can't really..." "This salad dressing is lovely, little one," Arthur cut in as he spooned a bit onto his salad. "Did you make it?" Maura sat with spine tall, in the comfortable way of one absolutely self-assured. "Mother, I'm not insinuating anything. I'm telling you that since I was six, I've understood the way we lived. I can't find it in me to judge you harshly for the choices that you made so long ago, because societal pressures were different and so much stronger. I just can't make the same choice. I can't live with it; maybe I'm not strong enough to do what's right for everyone else. Do you want to know what I think? I think that I don't want you to think you have to live that way, either. The next time you come and visit us, I want you both to bring the people that you love as much as you love each other. Daddy, you should bring Natalie to see me sometime. I miss her. Mother, I'd really like to see Connie again. They were parents to me, too, and I would value the opportunity to honor them as such, and tell them that I know the important place they should have always held in my life, and in your lives. Please do this for me?" That said, she picked up her fork and speared a few spinach leaves. "Yes, I made the dressing. It's very simple, though. I think what you're tasting is actually the candied pecans and the juice from the pears." Charlotte sat dumbfounded for a long moment, head bowing as she accepted the baring of what she'd always hoped to keep away from her daughter, let alone anyone else. But she was Charlotte Forsythe Isles, the woman who reared Maura to be a person who could shout chastisements to an Irish mob enforcer. Her dignity and equanimity were not long in returning, along with her straightened posture. A long, deep breath later, she reached a too-thin hand to pat Maura's forearm. "We'll bring them," she promised quietly, and then cleared her throat. "Well. I believe that we are all on a first-name basis now. Jane, would you be the friend that Maura brought to Adam Fairfield's memorial dinner? I heard that that pickled prune of a woman, Lydia Pennington, was highly offended at your presence. I should have come sooner just to thank you for twisting her pigtails." "I don't really like to talk about that dinner." Jane frowned as she pushed a few leaves around in her salad bowl. "But, yes, I was the 'plus one'." "I'm very proud of you, little one. Natalie will be very happy to see you. She asks about you often." Arthur quietly told his daughter before turning to Jane. "I understand there was an incident regarding a fish." He commented before finishing the remainder of his salad. "I really don't like talking about that dinner party." Jane repeated with a little more force. "Mrs. Isles," she gave the older woman a look that rang of caution, "I just have to say this. Blame it on my middle class upbringing and years of being on the force, but," she set her fork down and flexed her hands. It was a nervous gesture, "You know I'd never intentionally do anything to embarrass Maura. I embarrass her enough without trying. But, my family and our friends love us as we are," she began to run the fingers of her left hand over the scars on her right. "And Boston is very liberal. She and I could marry if we decided to. So, why are you so worried about how we'll live in society? The society we live in already accepts us." She glanced down at her hands, frowning at what she saw before looking back up at Charlotte. "You know, I'll do whatever I need to do, short of denying Maura, to make sure she's okay wherever she is and whoever she's with. I'll learn. I may be a cop, but I'm not stupid. I can learn." Maura's tolerant smile warmed as she explained, "Jane finds it valuable many times to be underestimated, and so she purposefully cultivates a reputation of being somewhat simple, undereducated, and at times even boorish. She is none of those things, I assure you. As it happens, the fish incident was... embarrassing, but in a way that I found entirely enchanting. She made me laugh on a day when I really needed to laugh. Yes, there are times when I worry that some of our friends," she spoke to her parents, therefore including only the set of friends she knew from their world, "may shun me. Then I remember that anyone who would shun me based on the fact that I'm with a woman, or the fact that she's a detective, or Italian, or middle-class, or anything about her... isn't really a part of my life in the first place. Those who mind don't matter, Mother, and those who matter don't mind." She stood to remove the salad bowls and utensils, since everyone seemed to be saving room for the main meal. "Besides," she added with another smile, "we can feel honored that Jane is among us. Her great-grandfather was a steelworker. His very hands helped build this city. Her father has one of the most important jobs in town, as well. Without him and those who share his profession, this city - the entire country, in fact - would not be worth contemplating." So saying, she left Jane in the suddenly respectful company of her parents. "What does your father do, Jane?" Arthur asked with a genuine air of curiosity. The brunette sighed heavily. "He's a plumber." She rolled her eyes. "Ma stays at home. My younger brother, Frankie, is a uniform cop." She flexed her hands again before placing them flat against the table top. "A plumber? How... interesting," Charlotte replied as her eyes settled on Jane's hands. "He owns his own business. Sometimes my brother and I would help him out when we were younger." Jane shrugged, her eyes fixed on the wine glass sitting in front of her. "He's not rich, but the family has always been comfortable." She glanced at Charlotte. Noticing where the older woman's eyes had landed, she quickly balled up her hands and placed them in her lap. As she did so, Maura walked back in with the next course, steaks with a small side of gnocchi and roasted vegetables. Her mother's next words caught the younger Dr. Isles up short. "Is that what happened to your hands?" Charlotte asked, her eyes showing only blankness, her voice slightly cold. Swiftly, Maura set the serving tray at the edge of the table next to her father, a silent suggestion for him to serve in her place, and then walked with quick grace to Jane's side. There she stood, then bent to look Jane in the eyes. "I'm sorry, mio tesoro. I didn't think to explain beforehand." Her hands moved to envelop Jane's, halfway between shield and comfort, as Arthur began serving each plate. "Mother, Jane's hands are the most beautiful part of her. These hands save lives, care for small creatures, protect this city, and they love me. The scars are just a reminder that once Jane did the bravest thing anyone could ever do. She risked her life for someone else, alone and in the dark, without hope of ever getting out, or even having her sacrifice known by others. These scars mark Jane as a hero. My hero." "It's okay, Maura." Jane gave the honey- blonde's hands a reassuring squeeze. "You don't have to explain for me." She gently pulled her hands away, placing them in her lap. "Do your hostess thing. I've got this." Maura nodded and began to serve the vegetables and gnocchi, mentioning to Arthur sotto voce, "The gnocchi are Jane's mother's recipe. I understand it's been passed down from mother to daughters in their family for at least two hundred years." Even with that fascinating bit of information, neither one was really focused on the food. They were listening to Jane, watching Charlotte's reactions, and becoming more and more impressed. That was easy for Arthur, who'd only just met Jane, but for Maura to be impressed and even surprised took some doing. Jane turned back to Charlotte. "I was the detective who captured Charles Hoyte, The Surgeon. It was in all the papers. I don't think you could have missed it. My name was everywhere for a while, and what happened to me," she held her hands up, "was in every newspaper from here to England. I know because my mother has a scrapbook full of clippings from national and international newspapers that covered the story." She made vague gestures with her hands as she continued. "The headlines read things like, 'Boston Female Homicide Detective Captures The Surgeon' and 'Boston Female Detective Pinned The Surgeon'." She frowned. "They thought the pun was catchy. I thought Ma should have let me shoot the newspaper editor who wrote it. You can try to deflect your failed attempt to keep Maura from the truth by focusing on me. I can take the heat. But, you should know that Maura's smarter than you obviously give her credit for. You know what happened to my hands. There aren't many people who lived in Boston at the time who don't. I can't help it if Maura knew you were a closet lesbian. I've never tried to deceive her. Just because you failed at doing just that doesn't mean you get to start being a bitch to me again to deflect your embarrassment. It doesn't work that way. I'm sitting where I am at this table for a reason." Arthur took up the challenge first, with a tender expression directed towards his wife. Though they had not been lovers since before Maura's birth, they did love one another, it was clear to see. "We only concealed things from you, Maura, because we knew you might be placed in a position of having to lie for us, and we didn't want that, even before we knew you couldn't. Both of you have opportunities that we didn't have, separately and together. I think I speak for both your mother and myself when I say that we hope you'll take advantage of everything that is now open to you. We just need to know whether we can tell everyone about the wonderful woman our daughter has brought home, or whether you would both prefer privacy and to inform people yourselves. Charlotte, dear, I think now would be the appropriate time for you to say something gracious and honest." Jane's dark, furious, determined eyes quickly flicked from Mr. Isles to Mrs. Isles. Her face showed nothing but self-assurance and anger. Any worry from earlier in the evening was completely gone, and the faux confidence she projected before was replaced with genuine confidence as the detective slid into the spot she had always been most comfortable in, the role of leader. Her pose holding a slight hint of challenge at Charlotte, as if daring her to do something other than what Arthur had just suggested. Charlotte's lips pursed in annoyance at the vulgarity as much as at what was actually being said to her, but after a long moment she nodded. "The head of the table. The place of honor at my daughter's table. You're right, she is a genius, and I trust her judgment. You're strong enough to be a match for Maura, which I consider fortunate, because you'll need that strength as a member of our family." Jane nodded at the recognition she received from Mrs. Isles. With a twinkle of mischievousness in her eye and a smirk beginning to spread across her face, she replied lightly, "You haven't met my mother yet. Compared to her, you two are easy." She chuckled. Giving a wink to Maura, she took a small sip of wine. "It's up to Maura what she'd like to do, Arthur. Everyone in my life, and our life, knows. How she wants to handle your life is up to her. She knows I'll support her in whatever she wants to do." As her parents waited expectantly, Maura took an elongated moment to consider her options. She searched her parents' faces for cues, then Jane's, before lowering her eyes so as to focus on her own feelings, always elusive. Finally she said, "Would you tell people if I were seeing a man right now?" To her credit, it was Charlotte who replied first, without even consulting Arthur with a look. "Game, set, and match. Of course we would, if it were serious. I take it this is serious?" Maura nodded. "Then we shall mention it in due course of conversations," Charlotte decided, looking a bit taken aback at the notion, a little shaky. "I will admit this isn't easy to face, Maura, darling. It will be hard for me to tell the truth about your love when I couldn't do the same for mine. But I will adjust. Those who can't keep up will simply have to be relegated to casual acquaintance. Real friends will show themselves." Arthur set down his wine glass and gave soft but heartfelt applause from his end of the dining table, murmuring a tender, "Brava." Jane visibly relaxed at the exchange. Gently, she said into the silence, "Thank you." Clearing her throat, she glanced at the people in the room, The quiet of the moment was disrupted by her phone ringing. "I'm sorry I have to take this." Standing from the table and opening the front of her suit jacket to pull her phone from its place on her belt, she stepped away. "Rizzoli." She gave an apologetic look as she tried to quickly cover her gun and badge with her jacket as Maura, also facially expressing regret, stood up to go to the living room and find her phone, just in case she was needed as well. She came back with it, still silent in her hand, and set it on the table beside herself with a whisper to her parents, "She's on call. I'm not, but if she pulls a body... That is, if a medical examiner is needed at a crime scene, she tends to request me." "When? What did you find? He still there? No, don't go in without me. Frost, I mean it. Do not go in without backup. I can be there in 15. Keep an eye on him and… As the senior detective working this case and your partner I'm warning you, Frost. I will single handedly kick your ass from there to Texas and back if you go in there without me. He's not going anywhere. You can wait. I'm on my way." "She's very commanding," Charlotte murmured, and it sounded very much like a subtle compliment. Maura's eyes flew towards her mother's face, and what she saw there made her smile. "Mine." Charlotte had the grace to blush as she responded with dignity, "I'm just saying I approve of your choice. She's strong enough for you. Reminds me of your father... and Connie." Maura all but glowed. Jane quickly replaced her phone, not bothering to button or smooth her jacket back into place. "I'm sorry, Maura. I have to go. They finally found our main suspect in the Charlston case. I promise to try to keep you from having to work tonight." She quickly rounded the table, kissed Maura quickly goodbye and turned, nodding to the two elder Isles. "Lovely evening… we should do this again at some point without the bravado, pomp, and attitudes. Maybe a burger and beer?" She laughed as she trotted toward the front door, not giving Arthur or Charlotte time to respond. As Jane hotfooted out of the house, Maura settled back down to finish her dinner, assuming her parents would do the same. "You know, I'm very pleased with the way the gnocchi turned out. I may have seasoned the steaks a little too lightly, but the gnocchi tastes perfect. It's Angela Rizzoli's recipe, did I mention?" But no, it was not to happen. Arthur and Charlotte were staring openly at Maura. "What? Do I have something on my face?" Maura wondered, hurriedly brushing at her chin and cheeks just in case. As one, Arthur and Charlotte Isles said with more surprise than either had shown since that afternoon. "She got you to drink beer?" Don't forget to review! Thank you again for reading. :-)	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6809530/3/Reputation	<urn:uuid:305094b9-be8f-42f9-a99e-f96531681bab>	en	0.989018	0.094904
Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge This FAQ/Walkthrough by Evil Sponge Version 1.0 May 24, 2001 Table of Contents: I. Introduction II. Version History III. Characters IV. Walkthrough V. Secret Stuff VI. Legal Stuff "Could you please stop that annoying swinging?" Ahhh...Monkey Island II... What more could you ask for in a sequel? Well, maybe a cow, but they usually don't appear in the Caribbean. Anywho, this game is a worthy bearer of the Monkey Island name. And this walkthrough is worthy of the Evil Sponge In this document, I will take you through the sections of each chapter, and will avoid having you pick up items specific for a different part at all times possible. Basically, what I'm saying here is that I won't have you pick stuff up for finding Rapp Scalion's map piece while you're still trying to get rid of Largo. The reason is so that you don't have to scan madly backwards trying to find an item. Also, I only have the hard version of the game, so that's what the walkthrough will be on. If you want to get through the easy version, there's a walkthrough at http://www.gamefaqs.com. With that out of the way, enjoy!! Version 1.0: first version, added everything. Coming Soon!! \|PART I: THE LARGO EMBARGO\| "A whole bucket 'o mud...and it's mine, all mine!" After your stimulating conversation with the pirates, you automaticaly leave the beach and travel to Woodtick, this island's local town. Upon ariving, try to walk off screen. You get mugged by Largo LaGrande, the island bully. Now all your money is gone! There's only one thing to do... Well, you can wander around Woodtick and talk to everyone. However, you need to go to the swamp so leave town when you're ready. Now that you're at the overhead view of Scabb Island you need to go to the river delta on the east In the Swamp, use the coffin. Now row all the way to the right and under the skull thing. A platform raises out of the water and takes you into the Voodoo Shop. Walk to the right and talk to the Voodoo Lady. Talk to her about everything, and at some point you get the ingedients to make a Voodoo Doll of Largo LeGrande. *Something of the Thread* Now, leave the house and the swamp. Return to Woodtick, and visit Mad Marty's. Walk over to where the Men of Low Moral Fiber are "performing" and pick up the bucket by them. In order to get the bucket, you have to pick the "Is this your bucket?" option. Now, go back to the swamp, and use the bucket with the swamp. Back to woodtick! Go to the bar, but don't enter through the main hatchway. Instead, go to the window to the right of it. Once inside, you can talk to Bernard, but he isn't very chatty today, what with his vissychois in the works and all. So just grab the knife you see there and exit the same way you came in. Now head to the Inn. Use the knife on Pegbitter's (the small, angry lizard) rope, and he'll scamper off. The Innkeeper chases after him. Now open the only other door in the Inn and enter Largo's room. Once inside, close the door. Notice that it doesn't shut completely. Those of you with younger brothers or sisters should know what to do next. Use the bucket 'o mud with the door. Hehe. Now hide behind the dressing screen and watch...and point and laugh at the person sitting next to you. Now head to Mad Marty's. Watch the amusing sequence, then return to Largo's room and go inside. Close the door and pick up the laundry claim ticket hanging there. Go back to Mad Marty's and redeem the ticket. Once you have the Pearly White Bra, you've just collected the Thread! *Something of the Head* Very easy. Just enter Largo's room and pick up the Toupee from the wig *Something of the Body* Also very easy. Head to Wally's (the cartographer), and pick up some paper from the stack. Now enter the bar. If you've been in here before you have witnessed Largo spitting on the wall. If you haven't been here before, then you will see Largo spitting on the wall. After there is plenty of phlegm on the wall, use the paper on it. You now have something of the body! *Something of the Dead* While you're in Woodtick, head to the entrance of the town. There's a sign there with a shovel on it. Pick up the sign, and you get the shovel. Now, leave town and head to the Cemetary. Once there, go to the gravestones in the back on top of the hill. Look at the stones until you find the gravestone of Largo's grandfather. Use the shovel on the grave, and get something of the **Thwarting Largo Go to the swamp and enter the International House of Mojo. Give the Voodoo Lady the ingredients, if you haven't already, and she makes the Voodoo Doll. Now, head back to Woodtick and enter Largo's room. Once you confront Largo, use the pins with the doll, and Largo is beaten. Unfortunatly, you show him LeChuck's bead, which he takes so that LeChuck can be resurrected. D'oh! Leaving Scabb Island You need to leave, but first you need to charter a ship. To do this, you first need some money. If you polished the peg leg of the Man of Low Moral Fiber, you have 19 pieces 'o eight. Which is, unfortunatly, 1 piece 'o eight too little. Looks like someone needs a job... Go to the bar in Woodtick and look at the help wanted sign outside. Go inside and talk to the Barkeeper about the sign, and he'll tell you that the position is filled. Curses, foiled again... Now for some fiendish supplies...Muahahaha!!! Go to the swamp and enter the voodoo hut. get the string beside the skull on the small table. Now leave. Go to the beach and pick up the stick laying on the ground. Go back to Woodtick and head to the Inn. Look at Pegbitter's bowl and then pick up the Cheese Squiggles. Now, head to Mad Marty's. Walk up to the box and open it. Now use the stick with the box, then use the string with the stick. Use the Cheese Squiggles in the box and walk a short distance away. If you're far enough away, the rat will go to the box and nibble on the Squiggles. Deftly pull the string and the rat will be captured. Now open the box and pick up the rat. Head into the bar kitchen and plot the rat into the pot. Now, go out through the window and enter the bar proper. Ask about the stew, and Bernard will soon get fired and you get a job. Collect your advanced pay and enter the kitchen. To get out of doing actual work, just sneek out through the window. Now that you have money, you'd think you would be ready for a ship. But, there's one more thing you need. Head to Wally's and wait until he puts his monocle down. Grab it, and then skip town. Once on the overview, head to the penninsula and then enter the house on the dock. Talk to Captain Dread. Give him the monocle and the money, not necessarily in that order, and you're all set to leave! \|PART II: FOUR MAP PIECES\| "Look behind you, a three headed monkey!" "Really? I'd better go tell the cook." First off, pick up the bag of parrot chow sitting on the deck. Now enter the main cabin. Rapp Scalion's Map Piece Tell Captain Dread that you want to go to Phatt Island. Once you arrive there, you automatically get arrested no matter what you tell the guard. To get out of jail, you need the key that Walt the dog is holding. Pick up your mattress, then grab the stick underneath it. Use the stick with the skeleton (more specifically the leg bone) in the next cell. Now use the bone with Walt and grab the key. Now you can unlock the door and leave the cell. Before heading out, grab the Manilla envelope and open it to get your stuff back. Head to the library. Walk to the card catalogue and browse through it. Look at the drawer for R and find "RECIPES, VOODOO" and tell Guybrush to remember "The Joy of Hex." Now look at any other book you want, and remember that one too. Now talk to the Librarian and get a library card (pick any options) and check out your books. Now, exit and walk all the way to the left or right and enter the overhead view. Walk to the mansion and open the gate. Now open the main mansion door and head inside. Talk your way past the guard at the steps (three-headed monkey to see the quote in action) and head on up. Once in the master sty...uh...bedroom, use the useless book you checked out with the one on Mayor Phatt's stomach. You now have the book on famous pirate quotations! Exit out and head to Booty Island. Go into the antique shop and buy the saw. Now head to Scabb Island and go to Mad Marty's. Use the saw on the guy's pegleg and leave. He calls for the Woodsmith, which means that the shop will be empty. Head there and pick up the nails and the hammer. Now head to Booty Walk to the right and enter Stan's Previously Owned Coffins." Talk to Stan and ask for a really good coffin. He'll hop in to show you how comfy it is, so close the lid. He'll open it back up and give you a hanky and eventually he'll hop back out. Ask about the coffin again, and close the lid. This time use the nails with the lid, and then Stan gets stuck there. Now pick up the Crypt Key above the cash register. Back to Scabb Island and head to the Cemetary. Once there, use the Crypt Key with the Crypt. Now look at the famous quotations book you got from the Phatt belly. Remember Rapp's quote and look at all the coffins until you see a matching quote and then open it. Look at it and then pick up some ashes, then leave. Now head on out to da Swamp. Row to the hut and head in, then look at the jars on the shelf behind you until you find "Ash-2-Life." The Voodoo Lady wants to talk to you then, so oblige. Give her the book and then the ashes and you get your sample of "Ash-2-Life." Now head back to the Crypt and use the bottle on the ashes in the open coffin. Rapp comes back to life and you have a conversation. Keep informing Rapp that he's dead and he'll ask you to check on the gas in his Steamin' Weenie Hut. Agree to do that, and then...do...that. The hut is on the Beach. Walk up to it and use the key, then head inside. Turn off the gas stove and then return to the cemetary and bring Rapp back to life. Tell him that you turned off the gas and he rewards you. You've now collected Rapp Scalion's Map Piece! Young Lindy's Map Piece Tell Captain Dread that you want to go to Phatt Island. Head right to the card catalogue, since you already have a library card. Under "D" for "Disasters", find the book "Great Shipwrecks of our Century" and check it out. Now go to Scabb Island and head into the bar. Order a drink, and use the library card as ID. You need to order "Yellow Beard's Baby" and "Blue Whale" and then mix them together. Now head to Booty Island. Head into the Antique shop and buy the ship's horn. Exit the shop and talk to the old geezer by the cannon for a while, and you'll find out that he fires off the cannon when a ship arrives. Now walk to the right until you enter the Spitting Contest area. Use the ship horn and wait for the guy to leave, then pick up one of the flags and Guybrush will automatically move them all forward. Use the crazy straw with the green concoction you have from mixing the drinks, then enter the Spitting Contest. Hwk, then Chwww, then wait. When you see the lady's scarf she's got as a belt wave in the breeze, spit. You'll easily win (since the place markers were mysteriously moved) and get your prize. Naturally, you need to head to the antique shop and sell your new plaque. This will take some doing, though, since it's a piece of wood with bronze spit. Tell the guy that "It's worth a mint," "Not just any spit," "The spit of the person who killed LeChuck," and you collect money for it. Once outside the shop, talk to Captain Kate Capsize (lady with the flyers) and charter a ship. If you don't remember the coordinates from "Great Shipwreks of the Century" then say that you don't want to leave yet. When you're ready, let her know and you're off. When the ship arrives at the spot you've selected, you automatically leap in and sink to the bottom. Assuming you picked the right coordinates, you'll see a ship with a monkey head figure head. Pick it up and pull the anchor line and you'll surface. Once on the shores, head to the antique shop and give the Monkey Head to the shop owner. You get to trade it for the map piece. You now have Young Lindy's Map Piece. *Mister Rogers' Map Piece* Tell Captain Dread that you want to go to Booty Island. Once there, talk to the woman waveing the fliers around. You don't have enough money to charter her ship yet, but you can get one of her flyers. While your here, head into the antique shop to the left of where you are. Pick up the "Beware of Parrot" sign to the right of the parrot to buy it, then put the parrot food bag in its place. Now you can buy the mirror. After buying the mirror, head to the Big Tree. Use the oar with the hole right beside the plank, then get onto the plank via the root. Now step onto the oar. Ouch...but you get to see a cool dream sequence. Get the oar back, and head to Scabb Island, and visit the Woodsmith. Give the oar up for a sec, then take the repaired one back to the Big Tree. Use the same method for getting of the oar. Now pick up the plank, and put it in the next sequential hole. Step on the plank and get the oar, repeat as necessary until Guybrush figures it out and does it automatically. Once at the top, walk to the small hut in the upper left where you can see a nifty telescope to grab. Do so, then head to Phatt Island. Use the flyer with the wanted poster, then head into another area somewhere. Kate gets arested. Now you need to return and set her free. She thanks you, then leaves. Pick up the Gorrilla and Vanilla envelopes, then open them. Head back to Woodtick and enter the bar. Put the banana (from the Gorilla envelope) on the metronome, then pick up Jojo and leave. Back to Phatt Head to the left-ish area and go to the waterfall. Once there, head upwards along the path and you'll find the fall's source: a pump. Use Jojo with the pump to turn it off, then head back down and enter the "newly discovered gaping hole." Walk through the tunnels and up to the cottage. Open the door and head in. Use any response with Rumm Rogers Jr. but if you use the "I'm Guybrush Threepwood, prepare to die!" you'll skip to him challenging you to a drinking contest for the map piece. Take the challenge. While he's talking, just wait. Eventually, he comes out with a mug of grog. You can lose here, cause you're reaction to the grog is quite funny, or you can win. To win, just pick up the mug and then use it with the plant in the corner. Now fill it up with the bottle of near-grog that you got from the Vanilla envelope. Then, when Rumm comes back in the contest begins and you win. Now for the map piece. Put your mirror in the mirror frame on the wall. Now head outside and open the left hand window on the house. Use the telescope with the hand on the grotesque statue. Now just go back inside and push the brick marked by the light, then grab the map and leave through the lower exit. You now have Mister Rogers' Map Piece! Captain Marley's Map Piece Inform Captian Dread that you'd like to go to Phatt Island. Once there, walk to the right and find an alley before the library. Head inside and watch the game of chance. Looks easy, right? Well, give it a shot...and pick any spot, it doesn't matter. Cause you LOSE!!! But the other guy shows up again and wins, then leaves. Follow him out of the alley and into another one. Watch the pattern as he gets "past" the door man. Now, knock on the door and give it a shot. The answer is simply the first number of fingers. Once you get the winning number, head back to the game and give it a whirl (pun intended). This time you win, tah-dah! You need the Party Invitation to progress through the game, but you can grab the other stuff if you want to. Now that you can get into the party, head off to Booty Island. Once there, enter the first building on your right, which is the costume shop. Give the Invitation to the clerk, and he shows you to your costume. Leave the shop and this area and get to the overhead view. Head to the mansion in the upper left corner. On the way you get stopped at a guard house. Show the invitation and the costume, then you automatically change and enter. Follow the path to the main mansion, and enter the door. Quite a happenin' party, and if you hang around the guests you'll hear some amusing dialoge. Meanwhile, grab the map piece above the mantle and head out the door. You've collected the...ah, crap. Stupid dog... Talk to the gardener, and you'll be escorted up to the governor's room. You need to really kiss some behind here, so choose the nicest/mushiest options you get. Eventually, you'll nearly win Elaine over, but blow it in a Guybrush-esque style. She throws the map out the window, leaving you no option but to retrieve it. Back out on the mansion grounds, follow the map piece until it finally gets blown away. Watch the scene as the map flies through the air and alights near a cliff. Unfortunatly, you need a fishing pole to get it. Before heading out to find one, walk around the back of the mansion. Push the garbage can you see beside the door, and the chef will come out and start yelling at you. Run around the side of the mansion, then again to make a complete circuit, and enter the door. Grab a fish from the bucket and then leave again. Now, leave the island and head to Phatt Island Look to the right, and you'll see a pier stretching out into the water with a fisherman sitting on the end. Walk to the fishing guy. Talk to him, then start insulting him, then take the bet. You should already have the fish, so just give it to him. Hehehe. You now have the fishing rod! Head back to Booty Island and go to the cliff. Use the rod with the cliff face and you'll get the...crikey! The blasted seagull flies to the big tree, but you need to go to the mansion first. Head up to Elaine's room and pick up the oar. Now head outside, and pick up the dog. To the Big Tree! If you haven't done so already, use the oar with the hole right beside the plank, then get onto the plank via the root. Now step back, and head to Scabb Island, and visit the Woodsmith. Give the oar up for a sec, then take the repaired one back to the Big Tree. Use the same method for figures it out and does it automatically. At the top, head into the big hut and use the dog with the pile of maps. He retrieves the map, then Guybrush gives it to Guybrush. You now have Captain Marley's Map Piece! Putting the Pieces Together** Head to Phatt Island and enter the Library. Open up the model light house and pick up the lens. Now head to Scabb Island and go to Wally's. Give him the Light House Lens and then one of the map pieces. He'll decipher the map, but sends you on an errand to pick up his love potion from the Voodoo Lady. Head on out to the Swamp. Go up to the lady of Voodoo and ask her about Wally's potion. She gives it to you, then has a vision of Wally being kidnapped. Head outside and OPEN THE JUJU BAG. Now look at the crate on the shore, then open it and climb on \|PART III: LECHUCK'S FORTRESS\| "He didn't say anything about me." "I'm thinking...hassock." Once you're out of the crate, walk all the way to the right and out the door. Keep walking to the right and eventually you'll find the cell that poor Wally is being held in. Talk to him and eventually you'll learn that the key to his cell is being held in another part of the Fortress. Time to go find that key! To find the key, you need to head left again until you see a room with three "Ugly Bone Things" along the wall. You need to look at the spit encrusted paper that Guybrush cleverly wrote the skeleton dance steps on. Now you need to follow the steps according to the ugly bone things. For instance, if the first verse is: "The Head Bone's connected to the Leg Bone, The Leg Bone's connected to the Hip Bone, The Hip Bone's connected to the Arm Bone" ...then you need to look for the ugly bone thing that has a Skull, then a pair of feet, then a hip bone and push it. You'll go through into another similar room. Find the bone thing that matches the second verse, and repeat until you've reached the end. Finally, you'll come to a room with a big door. Open the door, then head into the smaller one. At this point, if you haven't already done so, make sure you OPEN THE JUJU BAG. Go and pick up the key! Naturally, you get captured and are about to be tortured. To escape from this...ingenious...torture device, you need to put that candle out. Use the crazy straw with the green drink that thickens your spit. Now spit at the shield to your right on the right side-ish area. If you aimed right, it'll bounce around and put the candle out. Note: If you wait long enough, the candle will burn through the rope and you die. However, since you're telling this story to Elaine she'll know that you didn't die and you get another shot at escaping. Once the candle's out, you and Wally automatically escape. You find yourselves in a darkened room. To see where you are, light the matches that were IN THE JUJU BAG. If you haven't looked in the Juju bag yet, you have to go back to a previously saved game. Why? Well, it's dark so you can't see what's in the Juju bag, now can you? Anywho, using the match will blast you free and onto Dinky Island. \|PART IV: DINKY ISLAND\| "It was supposed to send you to a dimension of Infinate Pain, not the next room!" **Finding Big Whoop Pick up the bottle you see nearby and use it on a nearby rock. Now pick up the martini glass underneath the large water still. Use the glass with the ocean, then again with the still. You now have a glass of clean water. Pick up the crowbar near the still, then open up the barrel. Inside the barrel is a cracker. When you give the cracker to the parrot, he'll tell you one step of how to get to Big Whoop. At this point you can talk to Herman Toothrot. He won't help you out any with finding Big Whoop, but he'll try to broaden you're philosophical mind. If you pick colors for long enough, you'll get the correct choice of "All colors" and he'll have nothing more to teach you. When you're ready, head left and enter the jungle. Head left again and up and you'll see a bag hanging from a tree. Use the broken bottle with the bag and a box of crackers will fall out. Use the martini glass with the box and get more crackers. Go back and feed those to the parrot to get the rest of the Now head back into the jungle, but head to the right this time. You'll come across a pond and a box with some rope on it. Pick up the rope and use the crowbar on the box. Get the dynamite that's in it and follow the parrot's East of the pond to the big dinosaur North of the dinosaur to the pile of rocks Due east of the rocks to the X Once you get to the X, use your shovel on it. Once you have a hole, use your last match with the dynamite and chuck it in. After the explosion, you find yourself on a small pillar facing the treasure...on another pillar. Use the rope with the crowbar, then use that combination with the twisted metal rods at the top of the hole. Guybrush swings over and grabs the chest...only to have the pillar fall and be stuck hanging there until Elaine shows up. After the conversation is finished, you fall into the abyss. Getting the LeChuck Voodoo Doll After you regain control, you are once again in the dark. The light switch in this room is slightly to the right of the center of the screen (roughly, you may still have to search a little bit). Once it's on you confront the Zombie Pirate LeChuck! Just pick any response you want, but eventually he'll reveal that you two are brothers and that he will use a voodoo doll to send you to a dimension of infinite pain. However, the doll seems to be defective and only sends you from room to room throughout the tunnel system. In order to defeat LeChuck, you need a voodoo doll of your own, so it's time to set out and make one. The room letters are references to the cheesy map that I made, which you can find at my web site (see the Legal section) or at Something of the Thread To get this you need to get into room F, which has a Broken Grog Machine in it. Use the coin return on the machine (the same machine that ate your coins in MI1? Ironic...) and a coin will be spit out. Leave it on the floor and hang out in the room until LeChuck shows up. When he does, he'll bend over to pick up the coin. While he's doing that, pull his exposed underwear waistband (gross!). You've just collected the Thread. Something of the Head Head to the First Aid room, which is room H. Walk to the trash can in the back and look inside to find a pair of gloves. Now exit and head to room G which has a bunch of boxes in it. Find the box with the baloons in it and grab one. Now you need to go back to room F. Find the helium tank beside the Grog machine and fill up the baloon and gloves (if you inhale these, Guybrush sings the BeeGees and other funny songs). Now get into room B and push the button for the elevator. Climb inside and wait by the lever. When LeChuck shows up, pull the lever and the door will cut some of his beard off. Pick up the Crispy Beard Bits and you have the Head ingredient. If you leave the elevator, you come out in the alley on Melee Island. Something of the Body Wait anywhere for LeChuck shows up. When he does, give the clean, white hanky that you got from Stan to LeChuck. He blows his nose into it and "kindly" gives it back. But, now you have something of the Body... Something of the Dead Go to room H: First Aid. Walk up to the LOST PARENTS and grab the dad's remains to get the skull. Since LeChuck is your bro, you've collected Something of the Dead. The Doll and the Pin While in First Aid, open the desk drawer and look inside to find a syringe. That, grasshopper, shall be your needle. Snatch the pebble from my...whoa, good job! Anywho, leave that room and go to room G and find the Kewpie doll box. Grab on, dude. Finish Him!** Put the underwear, wet hanky, beard bits, skull, and the doll into the Juju bag and Guybrush will shake it up and make a powerful Voodoo Doll! Find LeChuck and use the hypodermic syringe with the doll. LeChuck will run away, so find him and Guybrush automatically uses the doll. At this point, you can pick any option you want but at some point you need to tear the leg off the doll. Now, choose any of the following options and view the ending you've worked so hard to get to! Nearly Kill Guybrush: Wait for quite awhile when Guybrush and Wally are hanging over the acid pit. Eventually, they fall in and die. Since Guybrush is telling this story, Elaine realizes that he didn't die, so you get another shot. After picking up the Monkey Head from under water, wait for 10 minutes and Guybrush will eventually drop it and surface. Win the Game: Defeat LeChuck! Heh...or press CTRL + ALT + W at any point in the game, and then say yes to win! section of: This is posted with permission at: http://www.gamefaqs.com. Any questions? Comments? Hair cut? Just email me at:	http://www.gamefaqs.com/mac/583711-monkey-island-2-lechucks-revenge/faqs/11714	<urn:uuid:aa36353b-c4a2-461b-b01e-cf40eea77776>	en	0.931455	0.051457
Oral-History:Richard Snelling From GHN Revision as of 20:42, 23 January 2009 by Nbrewer (Talk \| contribs) Jump to: navigation, search About Richard Snelling Richard Snelling studied Industrial Engineering in the University of Florida, while serving as a reservist for the Korean War. He joined Southern Bell after graduating, where he specialized in transmission and special service engineering. He went back to school and received a master's degree in electrical engineering. His career at Southern Bell ended as Executive Vice President for Southern Bell and Bell South. Snelling joined the AIEE in 1956; all of Bell System was in the AIEE, as were most people in the power and telephone industries. He notes that IRE members tended to look down on the AIEE, while AIEE members dismissed the IRE. There were more IRE people in the space industry, so there was IRE dominance at the first Cape Canaveral region joint meeting after AIEE and IRE merged—an unusual occurrence. Transformations in the telephone industry included, in transmission, the change from tiffin ring copper to electronics. Snelling notes engineering challenges posed by the attempt at reducing outside plant's investment, and that getting technology changes into the “last mile” was always the hardest part of transformation. He discusses the tensions and dynamic between Bell Labs and the operating companies (Network Heads) in the 1970s. He explains how fiber allowed development of capacity without much investment. He mentions frictions during the AIEE and IRE merger, joint meetings of Super Com and IEEE, and attempts at globalizing IEEE. After Snelling retired from South Bell in 1991, he became involved with the Georgia Center for Advanced Telecommunications and Technology and the Olympics Committee. He describes his involvement in the development of intelligent network devices and analyzes the dynamic between telephone companies and equipment manufacturers, and the role of the Antitrust Divestiture Act. The interview covers Snelling's activities in various boards after retirement, including DCA, Boston Technology, VSI, and Digital Wireless. He talks about founding the Home Wireless Network company and Home Wireless Network' s new development of an interface platform. He discusses standardization, including the IEEE role in standardization, and speculates on IEEE’s potential role regarding the Internet, the professionalization of engineering, and the globalization of engineering. Snelling concludes with analysis of the impact of the Cold War on networks' design, computer hacking as a real threat to national security, and powering and backup power during emergencies. About the Interview RICHARD SNELLING: An Interview Conducted by David Morton, Center for the History of Electrical Engineering, 25 April 2000 Interview # 395 for the Center for the History of Electrical Engineering, The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineering, Inc., and Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey Copyright Statement It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Richard Snelling, an oral history conducted in 2000 by David Morton, IEEE History Center, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ, USA. Interview: Richard Snelling Interviewer: David Morton Date: 25 April 2000 Place: Atlanta, Georgia Childhood, family, and educational background The purpose of this interview is to gather information about the history of the Communications Society during your involvement with it, to talk about your career as an engineer and as a businessman, and to have a biographical statement from you. The standard first question is could you tell me a little about where and when you were born, and something about your early education? Also, how did you become interested in technology and how did you end up in this field? You have my bio, so you have a reasonably good framework to work with. I was born in St. Petersburg, Florida in 1931, which is generally conceded as being the bottom of the Depression. So, I grew up in that era. I had an older brother who was an engineer. Were your parents engineers? No, my parents were not. Actually, the family business was women’s hats. Five boys in women’s hats. Manufacturing or selling them? Selling them. We also made hats as well and subcontracted hats. Hats that are specifically made for a person. I grew up in that kind of a location and environment. I lived my first eighteen years in St. Petersburg, Florida, then attended the University of Florida. I received a bachelor's degree in Industrial Engineering. The reason for that particular curriculum was that they offered an engineering degree and I wanted to be an engineer. I had acquired an interest in matters mechanical. I was quite impressed with my older brother Bill who had become a naval pilot in the second World War, who was engineer. You must have just missed the War. Yes. I was ten when the War broke out. So you would have been in college just after the War. Were the veterans still there or had they moved on? When I got to college, it was 1950. The Korean War broke out in the summer of 1950, and the War went well until about October. That is when we got to the Yalu River and a million Chinese came across the Yalu in a wall of humanity that swamped the Marines, and just about emptied all the campuses in the United States because everyone started jumping for enlistment. I stuck it out at the University. Actually, I was in a Naval air squadron that my brother was the Executive Captain of, and basically did my military service in the Navy in various capacities as a reservist, going to college until I finished. That was about the same time that the Korean War finished. My interest was always in electrical engineering. My life plan was to go work for a large corporation. In fact, my Senior Seminar professor, who was the Department Head, asked us to write down what we wanted to do with our lives, which I did. I put down is what I have actually done. Ironically, I wanted to go to work for a large corporation that had stability, but enough technology that I could use my skills and where I would have a chance to advance through it, and ultimately to become an administrator. Was there an electrical engineering component to industrial engineering program? Yes. Industrial engineering at that point had shifted away from mechanical engineering, but was more related to the economics of engineering, but coupling the various disciplines. I took as many electrical courses as I did anything else, and I took business administration courses too. But it was an engineering degree. Employment at Southern Bell; graduate studies When I graduated, I spent the first few years of my career with Southern Bell in what they call outside plant. You would go out, take field notes, design the outside plant construction, shift it to a construction crew, and they would build the plant. I liked that. It did not have an awful lot to do with engineering or with electrical, for that matter. It had more to do with structural or civil engineering. About eight years into my telephone career, Bell System had this notion that the half-life of an engineer was about ten years and that they needed to go back to college or receive some formal training. So I did that. By that time, I had begun to specialize in transmission and special service engineering, which was actually one of the few design components of engineering in the old Bell System in the operating company outside of Bell Laboratories and Western Electric. I went back to college and took what would lead a master’s degree in electrical engineering. From there I came back and took my professional registration. I received my professional registration in the State of Florida in the field of electrical engineering, because that is what I really wanted to do. I continued to work my way through the ranks. There were some twenty-two steps at that time to go from student engineer, where I had started, to Chairman of the Board of AT&T, which I had declared to myself as my principle objective in business life. That seems reasonable. It is interesting. The person who had hired me for Southern Bell was the Chief Engineer for the State of Florida. I had been accepted but I had deferred my actual arrival at the Bell System for a year because of family reasons. My father passed away and my mother asked me to stay in St. Petersburg to help run the family business. I got married during that time and decided that I wanted to be an engineer. The man who interviewed me interviewed me personally for three hours. As I said, he was the Chief Engineer for Florida—a prestigious position. At the end of the interview he said, “The reason I spent so long with you is that I have hired many people and I have never had anyone quit. I think you might quit. I don’t want to break my record, and so I want to be sure.” I replied, “I promise you, I will not quit.” And I didn’t. That was really the way it was. You went to work for the Bell System and forty years later you retired, and had a happy life. Contrast that to 1985. I had made a presentation to British Telecom senior executives in London because they were about to go through a competitive environment. I did about a three- or four-hour presentation of all the things that I thought it would take to get ready for competition. By that time, I was the Executive Vice President for Bell South, Southern Bell. I did my three-hour presentation about the architecture of the Network. At the end of that, they had several questions. The first question was, “How do you like competition?” And I said, “I love it.” The man asked, “Why?” I said, “Because the pay is better. When my competition came in, other job opportunities became available, and Bell South doubled my salary in two years. I like that.” And that contrasts the old engineering lifestyle with the non-competitive environment and the few opportunities that go with that. Skipping back to the career process, my career shifted a considerable amount with going through the regional transmission school. That was a fast-track program. I was hired as a trainee; they called us college trainees. At that time, it meant that either you were promoted in four and a half years, or you were fired—one of the two. I was not promoted or fired in four and a half years and neither was anyone else that I ever saw who had been in the program. After that, I began to shift around and to do something interesting things. AIEE activity; work with NASA My first professional activity with the AIEE was in 1956. I actually joined the Orlando section of the AIEE. That is interesting. Why not the IRE? Or was the AIEE stronger? All of the Bell System was AIEE. The only people who were in IRE were electronics types. The AIEE was principally composed of the power industry and the telephone industry. AT&T had been a very strong supporter of AIEE. In fact, there was quite a lot of rivalry between the two. Most of the IRE people looked down on the AIEE members as kind of dummies who had mundane issues. Conversely, the AIEE people looked on the IRE people as being flaky or goofy types of people. So the wedding of those two was not particularly easy, by any stretch of the imagination. There were some people who had been in both organizations, but they were rare. I saw a good bit of that because one of my earlier opportunities was at Cape Canaveral. I became the Supervising Engineering for Cocoa Beach, which was where the Space Program was centered at the time. My role gradually shifted to being one that was increasingly oriented toward technical support for NASA and for the Air Force, and for the various space programs. Still as a telephone company employee? Always. We will not change from that until thirty years later. That is what I thought. That’s why you were providing communications services for NASA? There were a number of factors that were unique at the Space Program. Number one, NASA was a civilian agency. Up until then, only military agencies had done their own contracting. Otherwise, it was done through the Bell System. NASA wanted to have their own contracting capability, so there was a considerable amount of discussion between the Bell System and NASA about where that contract would lay. One of my jobs was to be the technical liaison for NASA at the Kennedy Space Center. There was a special team put together to do that. But I had other duties as well. While I was at the Kennedy Space Center in Cocoa Beach for the Space Program, I had moved my way through the Chairs of the AIEE, and ultimately I became Chairman of the section. It was certainly the largest in the southeast at the time; it may have been the largest in the country outside of New York, perhaps. That was when the IRE and AIEE joined. It was interesting because most of the Space industry was located there: Lockheed, Boeing, Pan American, GE, IBM. They were Space Row contractors. Many of them were in fact IRE members. So, it was an unusual Section because there were more IRE people than there were AIEE. What was the first joint meeting, like? It was interesting in that sense. Of course, my background was more technical than most of the AIEE members, so we seemed to get along fairly well. One of the interesting things about that tenure was that we entertained the Board of IEEE. It was one of the first times that the Board had met as a Board. They came down to Florida to meet. We had someone loan us Rockefeller’s yacht and had the meeting aboard the yacht. After my Cape Canaveral Cocoa Beach experience, I went to Jacksonville as a planning extension engineer, which was fundamentally administering the construction program for the State of Florida. I went on to some other administrative jobs. I ultimately ended up in Atlanta as Engineering Director for Southern Bell. I did some cross training in Atlanta, in the plant, and became the Executive Vice President for Southern Bell and Bell South. Transformations in the telephone industry Some noteworthy things during that period of time was the transformation from what might be described in the telephone industry as a tip and ring to electronics from the transmission standpoint. All long distance, obviously, had been electronics for many years, but the actual local loops were in fact pretty much base pan upon tip and ring copper. The development of carrier on copper had some pretty pitiful results originally. By the way, those kind of results are reflective of the difficulty currently in trying to get carrier put on copper in the form of DSL and ADSL. That is interesting. To be sure I understand what you are saying, but can you explain that in more detail? Well, you take one pair of copper wires and multiplex it with some sort of carrier system and derive twenty-four channels for a T1 line, or something different for other lines. Currently one of the main industry efforts and where a lot of money is going is trying to do the same things, trying to put carrier on copper wires with similar kinds of results. What are those results? Copper plant in the distribution does not support carrier very well, for many pragmatic reasons. Water in the cable is one reason. Water in the cable is bad. Corrosion is another reason. Bridge tap, which means bridge wires onto the line that may not really on the record. Et cetera. So there is a variety of things which make that difficult. The point being that starting back around 1970 there were fairly extensive efforts made to put carrier on copper wires without a great deal of success. Which leads to some things that I think may be of some interest to you. That is of interest, actually. One of the things that makes this interview interesting to me is that usually I am sent to talk to people who worked at AT&T. More specifically, worked at Bell Laboratories. It is unusual that I get to talk with someone who worked out in the field. Now, the strong impression you get from the AT&T people or from reading the official corporate history is that one of the corporate goals was to supply the equipment that the local operating companies used. So it is interesting to hear that there continues to be engineering problems, even after these systems had supposedly been perfected in the laboratory. So if you have specific examples of that, that would be interesting. I probably need to go back a little bit. I would say beginning around the middle of the 1950s, there was a considerable effort made at Bell Laboratories, and around the world as well, to reduce the investment and the inflexibility of the outside plant. The outside plant typically was sixty percent of the investment of any telephone company in those days, twenty percent being the central office facilities, and the rest was spread around. So the big bad actor was the outside plant. There were many efforts to reduce that investment. One was ready access, where you just threw a bunch of wires into a terminal and then connected them willy-nilly and hoped that everything worked out all right. We used color-coding, spliced green to green, and blue to blue, et cetera. That did not work out so well. Then they developed a plan called Dedicated Plant, which was a modified way of putting the outside plant to the living unit and the building location. Dedicated Plant was a giant step backwards, actually, from an operations standpoint. Then about 1970, there was a lot of field input and there was an effort to begin to put carrier on the outside plant, which began to take hold. Unfortunately, the first efforts were analog, whereas digital had been quite successful in the trunk and the toll plant. It had not been applied at all to the outside plant, and the first efforts were unsatisfactory. What did happen, though, about that time was a permanent plant concept where you would take the plant to the neighborhood and you would perhaps have carrier on that. We began to use slick carrier—a digital line carrier—and applied more or less dedicated facilities from that carrier point to the main unit and provided extra pairs. This is where we are right now, basically with fiber to the permanent plant points. Feeder Distribution Interface is what they are called. Now, the real challenge is what to do with what they call “the last mile.” It is actually more like 2500 feet. The notion being to put carrier on that last piece. A good bit of the industry effort, both by the carriers and by many of start ups right now, is centered around how to build using sophisticated algorithms to overcome those unpredictable irregularities on that plant. So the problem has been a thirty-year problem that continues to thrive. My interest in all of that has always been first to do the best you could with what you had. But also to kind of look towards a more distant horizon and try to figure out how to get yourself out of this ditch that you are constantly in—this money pit that you are throwing your resources down. One of the false efforts in this respect was the use of an aluminum plant. That had a disastrous effect because while copper is not a wonderful transmission medium, aluminum is worse. Aluminum is much more sensitive to corrosion and is not as good a conductor and handles considerably poorer. So a lot of aluminum plant was put in the ground. And many countries went whole hog for aluminum plant offshore. Great Britain being one of them with British Telecom. How long did it take them to start realizing that was wrong? About five years. First of all, they knew it was hard to splice. But that also is one of the reasons why a good bit of the emphasis for wireless technology has come out of the UK, because they had this tremendous problem thirty years ago. Communications theory; dynamic between Bell Labs and Network Heads By the way, during the time that I spent in transmission, I began to focus professionally more on the theory of communications than just the pick-and-shovel work. It became clear to me that following some of Shannon’s information theory relative to digitalization of the network end to end. Also, other developments such as fiber optics (or the photonic development) was probably the longer-term solution to the dilemma of investment and bandwidth increasing. It was clear to me fiber around a photonic digital architecture would be the ultimate solution. When you say that you began to focus on that professionally, I am not sure how you did it. Was this a personal interest that you took in this, or were you involved in strategic planning? Well, being at Cape Canaveral, I was exposed to high technology probably at its most advanced stage. At one point, about twenty-five percent of the available engineering talent in the country was directed to the Man-on-the-Moon project in some way or another. All of the new technology was centered around that. I was the technical liaison for the NASA involvement. We built many sophisticated facilities for them. We also began one of the first efforts for electronic switching commercially at Cape Canaveral on the first T1 carrier. It was put at Canaveral mainly because of the nature of the technology effort at that time. So I was exposed to it early. But also, as I moved up the ladder and became Engineering Director, I had a two-billion-dollar-a-year budget to administer. More homes and businesses were under development to accommodate than resources. So, developing better ways to provide the service at a broader bandwidth was my job. I guess I am still unclear on that because I do not really understand the situation you were in. Again, coming from a perspective of someone who has only spoken with people from Bell Labs, the impression is that they developed the technology, and the operating companies bought it and installed it. Let me give you a little perspective on that. The Network Heads were an organization within the Bell System as a network for the twenty-three operating companies. They typically met quarterly, or four times a year, unless there was some special reason to meet in between. They were a group of all men who took the material from Bell Laboratory and Western and AT&T and deployed it or didn’t. They had some latitude to do that because the old operating companies were profit centers. So, the main objective for Bell South/Southern Bell was to have the best rate of return on the assets in the Bell System. We had the best rate of return in the Bell System for ten straight years. The best rate of return was how it was measured. There was a lot of latitude. That group was a very powerful group of people. In many respects, they funded the projects. There was a lot of interaction between Bell Laboratories and Western Electric and those Network Heads. Particularly towards the end of the 1970s, there was considerably more input from the field Network Heads. It was quite an unusual group of folks. As you can imagine, they were pretty rough and ready. You succeeded as a Network Head by being an aggressive, hard working, knowledgeable person who could adapt and handle most situations and keep the politics of the situation under control. By being responsible for a lot of money, they were all pretty heavily engaged. They began to break away from the Bell System products about the end of the 1970s, and I think Southern Bell put in the first Northern Telecom Central Office in Southern Bell in 1980. That was a real interesting experience. So part of my job was become knowledgeable. I taught and gave a lot of speeches. My guess is that if somebody wanted me to give this interview, probably one of the reasons I gave a ton of speeches, first in the south, then regionally, then all over the country, and really all over the world. I think at one time I was averaging fifty or sixty external speeches a year and about that many internally. It was centered around making the network more flexible from a bandwidth standpoint; putting more intelligence into the network; using operation support systems to make it an automatic network, untouched by human hands; and to provide a high level of flexibility for customer access and control. That is quite a different network than had been built around the world. Of course, about that time there was an awful lot of Justice Department activity with Judge Green and the antitrust case. It was evident that something was going happen with the Bell System. In some ways, there were going to be fewer constraints on the part of the Network Heads to make design decisions from a cookbook, if you will. There was an interesting meeting at Bell Labs about the middle of 1970s. We were in a service crunch in Chicago and Miami and New York and so forth. At that meeting, the head of Bell Laboratories cancelled the fiber optic project, the intelligent network project, and the automatic network project all in one fell swoop. This was a thing that drove a lot of the operating people up a wall, because we all wanted those things. Fiber network As competition began to develop from MCI and others, it became evident that we had to have a lot of capacity which did not involve a lot of investment. Fiber was the only way. We put in the first commercially viable fiber trunk route into Atlanta in 1979. GTE has a great ad about fiber optics in Chicago that they ran for years and years and years. But it was never commercial. Ours actually carried traffic. It was obvious to me that as soon as we put it in that we didn’t have any troubles. I figured we must have gold-plated it. But when we put some more in, we still didn’t have any troubles. That is why I am interested in the characteristics of fiber. It not only has bandwidth almost to infinity, depending on quality and what carrier system you put on it. But by its very nature in photonic information theory development, if you will, coupled with digital deployment, then the trouble recurrence goes down enormously. What I was seeing in my fiber network was that it had only four percent of the problems of a conventional network. That has a big implication on cost, service, and just being able to sleep at night. That first line, was that a direct replacement for some section of trunk? It was a direct replacement for a copper trunk that had T1 carrier on it. Integrating that into the network wasn’t really the problem. Once it was functional, it was invisible. One of the criteria for integration of anything into the network—whether it was one hundred and twenty-five years ago or thirty years ago or today—is that it must be compatible with everything that has ever gone before in some way. And it must be compatible with everything that you are going to do afterwards, which is a big design problem. It is a problem which the computer industry has never addressed. I don’t know if they would have gotten where they have, and I don’t know that they should have, and I’m sure that compatibility was the right for the telephone industry to do it. Virtually everything in telecommunications works with everything else in the world. It works with everything that ever was and everything that will be. So here I am, the telephone representative part of this operation. A lot of electronics people and consumer products people had a hard time with that. They figured the way to make a success in a business is to have a new product issue come out each year, obsolete the product you had last year and make another set of customers. Well, that’s not the history of telecommunication. So that was a fairly straightforward conflict. IEEE activities and merger; SuperComm convention Let’s go back to my professional activities with IEEE and some of the interesting aspects about that. The marriage of the two organizations, as I said, was not easy; it was contentious in many ways. In fact, many of the IRE people thought that they had been dragged down into the mud, and vice versa. You didn’t actually answer my question earlier about the first joint meeting. Were you active when the IEEE and regional activity started taking place? What was the atmosphere? I was actually the Chairman of the Section. I ran on a joint platform of AIEE and IRE. I guess I became Chairman mainly because I had gone through the Chairs. But I knew many of the IRE people from my contact with them on the various committees. I remember that somebody ran against me, which was unheard of at the time. It was an IRE guy, and he didn’t get it. He was very upset. He wrote some nasty letters. But other than that, it was pretty professional. I would say it was not an easy marriage in many ways, although it sounded that way whenever you read anything about it. It strikes me as a hard thing to integrate, especially at the regional activities level, because you have to begin holding meetings that supposedly appeal to everyone. You have to find speakers and find conference topics that will appeal to a broader group all of a sudden. How did that work out? Well, of the two organizations, my recollection was that the AIEE was much larger than the IRE in membership. At the time, they were comparable. Regionally I’m not sure, but overall, the IRE actually surpassed the AIEE. Yes. I think regionally they probably were. But in our case, that was just the opposite. IRE was by far the larger at Cape Canaveral and Cocoa than the AIEE. So we quickly adapted the policy of having technical programs. For one thing, the AIEE people liked it better anyway. The AIEE members were going through the same sort of technical revolution in their businesses and they were able to get a lot out of it. You could only have so many highway right-of-way programs that were interesting. My involvement with IEEE at this time was more centered around my duties as a Network Head for Southern Bell. I keep saying that because until 1990 Southern Bell and Southcentral Bell were separate companies under which Bell South was the holding company. It had separate organizations and staff. My last title was Executive Vice President for Bell South. We had a series of Southeastern Conferences that became more and more interesting. I was Chairman during the next noteworthy thing that occurred in 1990. We had the first joint meeting of SuperComm and IEEE. What is SuperComm? SuperComm is a large convention that occurs yearly. It is the TIA, the Manufacturers for Telecommunications, et cetera. It will typically have twenty to twenty-five thousand attendees. It is more of an exhibits-type conference, but they were beginning to develop technical programs as well. They were quite eager to have a joint conference with the IEEE and the Comsoc organization. So we elected to give it a try with the ICC, which is a spring IEEE conference. It coincided well with when SuperComm was normally held. We elected to do it in Atlanta, and I was the Chairman of it. That was an interesting exercise. The ICC normally runs a thousand, maybe fifteen hundred people. SuperComm runs twenty to twenty-five thousand people. One is technical papers and the other is management/technical applications with a more political emphasis. So pulling those two together was challenging. Of course, SuperComm had its own constituency. At that time, it was TIA and other manufacturing organizations. They had a professional staff that did nothing but put on SuperComm, and of course the IEEE staff was all volunteer. They especially wanted to do it in Atlanta in conjunction with us because it gave them access to the Southern Bell, Bell South, AT&T and Nortel volunteers. During that convention, we did some things that were exciting. One was the Super Home/Super Office, which was an illustration of new technology and applied technology for those two environments. We asked various manufacturers to contribute to that, and then we had our exhibits based on what manufacturers offered. We had about twenty different exhibits of different rooms. You would go into one room and see an ATM, then go into another room and see a photonics switch. Some of these devices were never developed, but we were demonstrating the prototypes. And the same thing was true for the Super Office. The conference turned out to be a financial success for both parties. I have continued to do that ever since. We had another joint conference in 1998 in Atlanta of the ICC and SuperComm. I was not Chairman of that; Bill Smith was. He is the Executive Vice President of Bell South. But I did do the Super Village. Various manufacturers would provide different aspects of their technology that they wanted to demonstrate, which was a little bit different than just going to a booth. You could see a whole village with different applications. We might shift gears a little bit and backtrack and go back to some of the developments in IEEE and my involvement in that. I served on many different boards, publication review boards, et cetera, just in the normal course of events. I did serve for about five years or so on the ComSoc Board of Governors or Directors. There I served on the Executive Committee to provide administrative direction for the Society. During that period, Maurizio Decina was Chairman, not for the entire period, but for a good bit of the time. He’s a professor at the University of Milan. He was at Bell Labs and he did early work with ISDN. He is also at the Telecommunications Center at the University of Milan. He has done a great deal of activity with Telefonica Italiana over the years. His notion was to globalize IEEE to make it not just an American society that has different offices around the world, but to begin to diversify the actual administrative and technical thrust. Part of Maurizio’s notion is that Americans tend to be…less respectful of other points of view than they really should be. Part of his notion was that if you could globalize IEEE, you could go a long way toward getting better world standards, because the United States typically goes it alone on standards. That used to work fine when there was an AT&T that set the standards for the world, but right now it is not working too well for the United States because we lag in standards. During this period of time with the IEEE, both professionally and intellectually there were many things that I wanted to be engaged in. One was the notion of expanding the bandwidth of the network and the use of fiber to do that. I am quite satisfied and gratified to see all that developing. Georgia Center for Advanced Telecommunications and Technology; 1996 Olympic Committee I retired from the Bell South at the end of 1991. When I left my job at Bell South, I became the Senior Technology advisor for the 1996 Olympic Committee. I thought that was what I was going to do for the next five years. I didn’t because about that time a center that I was interested in at Georgia Tech, the Georgia Center for Advanced Telecommunications and Technology, was funded by the governor. The person who had accepted the job and was going to become the first Executive Director, but he went to Australia to become the Australian Telecom’s CEO instead. So I agreed to become the Executive Director and Founding Director for GCATT. I thought I would do that for three or four months until we could get another CEO. Two and a half years later, I finally stepped down as Chairman and let somebody else come in. It took two and a half years for that particular duty to be shed. In the meantime, I stayed with the Olympics for about a year, year and a half, until we could get all the specs written for the various products. I was really doing a lot more than I wanted to do in retirement. One of the interesting things about that period was at GCATT the notion of dealing from an academic, governmental, and an industry standpoint with the conversion of the various industries, which could be defined as computing, telecommunications, CATV, content origination, and the fifth one is consumer electronics. We received funding from the state and from corporate organizations, Bell South, AT&T, IBM, Turner, and Cox. The idea was to throw those various industry representatives together into a pot and come out with collaborative research that would transcend the normal component or single item research that is typical, even in Bell Laboratories. It is actually a center at Georgia Tech. At the Olympics, the technology committee or the technology group was under funded. When they submitted the bid for the 1996 Olympics, the committee left out funding for technology totally as a separate item, which turned out to be a one-hundred-and-twenty-five-million-dollar problem that caused a lot of grief. Well, one of the ways we got out of that was to get the corporate sponsors to designate people to come and be part of the technology groups. Their salaries, at least initially, were paid by the corporations. I did it on a volunteer basis. We were exposed to the fact that everybody wanted everybody else’s businesses. Motorola wanted to do networking, IBM wanted to run a network, and Bell South wanted to do wireless. It was just a mish-mash of musical chairs. Consequently, the technology group was exposed to leading-edge technology from companies to use their technology for the Olympics and we were going to showcase technology for the 1996 Olympics, which in some ways we did, in some ways we didn’t. We also formed a technology advisory counsel of various technology sponsors. But also, interested parties like Australia who have bidden next, and Germany, et cetera. So, there was an opportunity to see the world of telecommunications from a development standpoint at the leading edge. At GCATT, I watched that same sort of integrated development in theory but in practicality at the Olympics, to watch those convergent industries begin to merge and smash through each other. It was exciting to me. Intelligent network devices development Part of what I had worked on diligently at Bell South over the years was the realization that so long as you had a black telephone interface, the interface device could be pretty simple, but if you were going to market sophisticated services that would include call forwarding and three-way calling and even not very sophisticated services, you needed some sort of intelligent device that would aid the user in accessing the complicated network with a complicated array of network services. The current Chairman of Bell South is Duane Ackerman, a long-time friend and colleague. He was the staff person at Bell South for the two operating companies, and I was the Executive Vice President for the Southern Bell piece. We issued jointly two RFPs (request for proposal), one in 1987 and one in 1989, for a device that would be an intelligent network device. What is an RFP? Actually, they were RFIs, Request for Information, because we weren’t ready to let bids. But you ask the manufacturers for what they can do to solve a particular problem. You write out this sponsor’s specs. The specs we were writing out were basically an integrated terminal that would provide voice, data, and video termination and let the user pick and choose bandwidth on demand and have an intelligent aspect to it. We issued those two in 1987 and 1989, and we had some forty-five or fifty responses the first time and maybe twenty the second time, none came close to accommodating what we wanted to do. One of my objectives all along was to someday have such a device that would do that. That’s very interesting, because that’s so early, in a sense. It is pre-Web, so you obviously aren’t talking about household consumers. Who were your imagined customers? Actually, Southern Bell and AT&T and Knight-Ridder had a joint venture in 1982 in Miami on videotext. The device they had was basically just a clicker that you would use for a television set today. But it was a clicker for the TV set, actually, but it had a set-top box on the TV. Was this imagined as a cable-type of service? Or a twisted pair? Twisted pair. The notion of videotext was to have slow motion video, for one thing, but mainly to have text and to do it inside a normal telephone channel which was three thousand-hertz, which is a fairly narrow bandwidth. The problem with three thousand hertz is that it was like a straightjacket for the industry. This is why I was so interested in getting out to carrier. The project was ultimately discontinued in 1984, not because there wasn’t interest and not because it wasn’t technically feasible, because it was in both cases. By the way, that was when the first packet switch was put it. It was put in to service that particular application back in 1982. IP-1, as a matter of fact, at Western Electric. But the problem was the user interface. There wasn’t an adequate user interface, and it cost too much money. It started out at six hundred dollars and with volume went to eight hundred dollars. Ultimately, Knight-Ridder wrote it off. We had a chance at that point for the newspapers and the telecommunications industry to come together, and it fell apart and things became divisive between the two. The newspaper industry began to see the telecom industry as electronically supplanting their classified ad pages advertising. Which is a very real thing to worry about. So that was the origin for this notion of a sophisticated device. But there are other reasons. Penetration of call forwarding and all the vertical services were in. If you read their annual reports, most of the telcos are getting their growth from the idea was that nobody could remember what the codes for call forwarding and three-way calling and so forth. It had to be simpler. So I always wanted to have that. But also, there was the notion of unlimited bandwidth, automatic network, intelligent network, voice/data/video bundled together, and some sort of accommodation of the CATV industries. I used to run around the country and talk about how we could accommodate with the CATV industry. I took a lot of cross-examination in the depreciation hearings from the CATV industry. It was a very hostile for that period. Their contention was that there was no place for fiber in the network. Of course now, they probably have a far higher percentage of fiber than in telecommunications industry. But there again, all this time this device kept cropping up in my thinking. At GCATT we developed a National Science Foundation funded activity with Corning, Nortel, Bell South, Hughes, and some others who I forget, to develop a gigabyte network, an all fiber network, an all optical network, including the switches. What that would do for you and how you would do that, et cetera, and actually demonstrate it. But the more important part of that particular activity was the coming together of the above parties for the fiber and the sophistications of fiber and the use of a higher slot the fifteen hundred nanometer bandwidth then also to build the photonic components that would go with that. So, we began to develop architectural notions of fiber rings around the world and fiber rings around Georgia and so forth. So a lot of the fiber ring activity that you see right now is quite satisfying to me, going back ten years ago. Interactions of telephone companies and equipment manufacturers after Bell divestiture You mentioned the RFI procedure, which I have never really heard of before. It leads me to the question of how a telephone company would communicate its needs or its desires to equipment manufacturers, particularly after the breakup of AT&T, where you no longer had an easy corporate channel already in place. What was the relationship between the people developing new switches and the system? It was a mixed bag, and still is. They would come in with a product that is not a Lucent or a Nortel or a Cisco. You have a new product—a small company trying to get into a major telecommunications major player like Southwestern Bell, they have a tough time. But you also have some constraints by the Fair Trade Administration and the Antitrust Laws, et cetera, in which you have to deal equally with all people. You also cannot have cross subsidization between product lines. There are many legalities involved. One of the mechanisms to overcome those and let people have fair access to the organization is to have a Request for Information. With something like an integrated terminal, which is what we called it, there are only five companies in the world who could do it because of the need to have an interface with the transmission, linkages, central office switch, and the consumer electronics piece on the end. I would say there were five in 1987 there are probably fifty by now. They would come in with price targets and you would give them price targets. You would tell them what you wanted to do, and they would come back and respond, “Well, we don’t have this but if you give us a purchase order, we will develop it.” You would go from there. There were also problems during that period because under Judge Green’s constraints on the Antitrust Divestiture Act was some restrictions on customer premise equipment. He never actually said you couldn’t do that, but everyone was afraid to move into consumer electronics or the consumer activities on an integrated basis. In fact, he took the consumer telephone sets, basically, and turned them loose. It became a forest of problems relative to termination of the network. I think that was one of the major flaws in his ruling. Bellcorp was considerably effected by that. I was the Chairman of the Applied Research piece of Bellcorp for five years. I was the first Chairman when it was formed because I was the Bell South representative that formed Bellcorp. I then stayed on as Applied Research Chairman for five years. We did many projects, but we never really did the one I wanted to do which was the Integrated terminal. The reason was the legal concern that we were getting too close to a violation of Judge Green's consent decree. I seem to recall seeing Bell South branded telephone sets. How did that get around the ruling? They would just buy them from Western. I remember the Western Vice President came into my office after the divestiture was announced and put down a bid for our telephone set business. I had to tell him a couple of months later that we had given the business to someone else. I thought he was going to have a heart attack in front of me. It was quite a shock. And on the PBXs, I remember Western came in and said that they would be glad to give us their last year’s version of the PBX, but the new ones coming out were on reserve for AT&T. So we said no thank you, and we went to Nortel and bought our PBXs from them. I saw some statistics in the paper the other day about the number of people who are still renting telephones from AT&T. There are still quite a few of them. Many people don’t like to change. Board memberships: DCA, Boston Technology, VSI, Digital Wireless So, I am working my way through the ‘90s. I had retired. First I was heavily engaged at GCATT, and then towards the end of that time I joined a lot boards and said, “Okay. I would like to be part of governance in the various industries.” So I was a board member of DCA, which manufactured the ERMA board and that basically took the PC to the mainframe. We took that company private for many interesting reasons. But it exposed me to the consumer electronics world and computing world in a way that I had never been exposed before. Joined the Intergraph board, which was a mapping type company. Then I joined the Boston Technology board, which was a voice messaging company, quite similar. In fact we had used Boston technology equipment when I was at Bell South. It rather surprised me because we always figured that when the Judge let us do voice messaging, we would probably use Octel because that was our internal suppler of voice-messaging equipment. We had built up an internal network to get experience with it, and Octel was the only game in town. And then when the time came to deploy in Miami, out popped Boston Technology with a bid that beat them all over the place, so we deployed Boston Technology. John Taylor was the President and CEO of that particular organization. I joined that board. Gregg Carr was also the Chairman of the Board and founder of it. I joined another board called VSI, which is a videoconferencing company. I was always intrigued with the notion that videoconferencing is an efficient substitute for transportation. VSI is a publicly traded company. One morning I woke up and was having breakfast with my wife in my pajamas. We were about to go out and play golf. I received a call from our VSI corporate attorney and he said, “I needed to come down here because all the other board members except you and one other have resigned. This company is out of business because we have to have three board members. By the way, we don’t have anybody to run it because the Chairman and CEO was one of those who resigned.” So, I went down and we elected another board member through a legal ruling. I agreed to be the CEO and Chairman until we could find ourselves a CEO and Chairman. I have spoken to a lot of fellows who when they have reached a certain point in their career are asked to join the boards of various companies, many of which had nothing to do with their prior careers. I always wondered what exactly being a board member involves. I’ll give you two contrasts. I was on the Southern Bell board for nine years. It was a very prestigious board. We would go to Washington and seventy-five percent of the legislative delegates, Senators and House members, would turn up. They were a prestigious board. I never had a serious challenge to my construction program. I would present it in very great detail with all the acronyms. But everyone always voted yes and off we went. When I went to DCA there must have been fifteen different motions in the first fifteen minutes. The board was running the company. So it varies a great deal. That was an advisory/governance board. So they vary quite a bit depending on the circumstances. VSI was a troubled company. When I became Chairman, the stock was at nineteen cents a share and dropping. So, keeping VSI afloat, and there were a lot of good reasons for doing it, encompassed a lot of my activity for a long time. What had happened to that company? It went through a period when it launched a new product with some intellectual properties that it had, patents, and simply ran out of cash. There were some delays in the product deployment, principally from software. A common story. It basically got some loans that put the assets of the company up for grabs. So making payroll was a challenge the first time. I learned all about going from a big company where you have a two billion dollar construction budget and a two-billion-dollar maintenance budget to a company that is fighting for next week’s payroll, which is maybe a hundred thousand dollars. What happened? Where are they now? They are still operating. Six weeks is how long I thought I would be there. It turned out to be more like three years. I finally brought in a CEO that actually came from Bell South, a lady and a colleague of mine from Bell South days. She was CEO for about a year and a half. She is still on the board, but I’m no longer on that board. So I was very interested in videoconferencing. Still am. And still have a lot of their stock. I also became intrigued with wireless. One of the notions that I had over the years—and it goes back to some of the original information theory—was that landline is good for bulk and reliability, and wireless is good for flexibility and portability. Just that simple. You need a combination of the two to do an overall telecommunication job. I joined a board called Digital Wireless, and that was a spread spectrum company, also a private company. It still is, although they’ll probably go public soon. The Chairman of that was Stucky MacIntosh. I kept agitating for a wireless integrated terminal that we hadn’t been able to pull off at Bell South. Digital Wireless had a wireless spread spectrum telephone that was very good. In fact now it is licensed to go offshore and this is now the principal wireless portable telephone in the US with that technology. But the Chairman had concluded by that time that it wasn’t really the right way to do this wireless system that we were contemplating which was going to be a network. So he and I began to talk about how you would build an integrated terminal and how it might fit into a wireless world. If you turn around and look at the plaque back there, that is our first patent, and it is the first of the home wireless network patents. We now have eighty-seven. The notion there is that you would build an integrated terminal that would have user access to help the user interface with prompts et cetera, as well as a display device. Home Wireless Network company I want to digress a bit and go back to the Nortel days. Nortel put out a display telephone back in 1982. A display telephone that had a very simplistic display on it. Unfortunately, it didn’t have any brains behind it. But that device coupled with the other CPE of products of Northern Telecom at the time had us shift, at least, from our purpose of predominantly Western Electric to Northern because of their CPE and their ability to support Centrex services, et cetera. The person who was originally working on that was John Taylor at Northern Telecom. He is also the originator of Fiber World, which is access known currently node for Northern Telecom. That is where Northern gets most of its revenue stream today. The reason I mention that is Taylor showed up again later in my life at Boston Technology as CEO. Stucky MacIntosh being at Digital Wireless, so we filed for that patent under the Digital Wireless corporate structure. Of course, Digital Wireless was basically an industrial component company, not really a mass-market consumer company, so they were not going to develop that product. So Stucky, John Taylor, and I founded Home Wireless Network. Stucky was the RF specialist, particularly spread spectrum and TDMA. He naturally had a great deal of activity with the FCC in developing standards, doing licenses and auctions, et cetera. He has a lot of prestige in the FCC relative to RF. More importantly, he has a lot of knowledge. Taylor comes from a manufacturing background end that is optical, but which also has roots in consumer products. Then I come from a telecommunications background. So we formed the Home Wireless Networks company. The first company that gave us a conditional PO was Bell South. The conditional purchase order (in letter form) basically stated if you do these things, (the things being pretty much what had been in the two RFIs) they would consider purchase. In other words they were interested but not committed. With that, we went trotting around the world to Japan and Germany and the US. Lucent was our first investor, and still remains our principal investor. We formed the company and we now have a whole bunch of patents. The patents do the things that we set out to do. I wrote this paper in college about what I wanted to do with my life—I wanted to found my own company that would do new, interesting, and intellectually challenging things that would be of benefit to others, but that would also be rewarding. We have now launched this product and it interfaces with a network. So you can terminate a twisted copper to it. By June hopefully we will have a DSL or the digital interface incorporated. By September or October we will have it integrated. What is the product, other than the part that connects the network? It is best to think of it as a platform. It is a platform that will interface the outside world to the inside world, and provide an intelligent node to the user for interface purposes. We terminate copper wire now. It can ultimately terminate optical. We have an architecture that we have applied for a patent for a fiber-wireless-wireless network. All along in this process there has always been the cost dilemma of getting fiber to the home. Even in the middle of the 1980s, the reason I had all those unpleasant cross-examinations from the CATV attorneys (eight hours, ten hours, twelve hours in public under oath) was because it was very difficult to justify the cost of fiber versus copper if you are just doing voice. Video was not allowed by the consent decree. I had always contended that we could, in fact, just do voice on optical. With such a device as this, if you integrate sophisticated services such as home security and home automation array of services, you return to the notion of merging the five industries applied on an integrated basis to applications. So this product is a platform that can interface to the outside world, whether it be fiber at the full photonic level, whether it be fiber to the block or neighborhood, and then wireless in that last one hundred and fifty feet. By the way, the current architecture is to cluster roughly six to twelve living units to an optical network unit. That is how you share it. That particular architecture was developed by the Executive Director of Bell Laboratories, Jess Chunac (who is now deceased), and myself. We presented papers all over the world. Bringing fiber to the curb was the only way to have fiber deeply integrated into the network, because it was economical. Dick McCormack, the Chairman of US West, decided he would do fiber to the home in Kansas City. So he retrofitted fiber to the home. He spent two billion dollars at it and decided that wasn’t the way to do things. You have grass and water pipes and private property and trees and shrubs. It is just not a good way to do things. So they fell back to the next notion of fiber wireless from that Optical Network Unit, which would be a cluster of six to twelve living units, depending on the geography and also the usage of the neighborhood: upscale, midscale, or downscale. So, you take and launch the signal to the device inside the living unit, which would be a controller or an integrated terminal. On the customer side of that, you could distribute it with either the existing wiring: coaxial, twisted copper, or optical. Or you could do it on a wireless basis, so you could move around and take your laptop home and you don’t have to sit upstairs in your office; you can sit down and watch TV with the family, if you want, but you could still print to the common printer with a local area network. So it does a local area network function and it acts like a key system or PBX as far as sophisticated services. It also supports the high level of vertical services from the telecommunications industry at this point. It would accommodate a termination from the CATV set-top box like a USB. Our product does that sort of interfacing. It can migrate forward. The bandwidth that you would need to do that would be roughly thirty megabytes to each living unit. So it is a daunting challenge. Trucks driving through will disrupt the signal at that frequency level. You need some intellectual property, which we have applied for. The notion there is that that the Integrated terminal becomes a network element. So the platform could be a network element for simple applications for plain old black telephones where the customer wants the sophisticated services without changing out the set. Or it could be as sophisticated as a four simultaneous video channels, three of which would do standard NTSC and one high definition in some sort of termination. But also with the notion that if you have a controller that actually terminates the signal in a true sense, either phontonically or electronically, no matter where you would go, you could have your service origination be at that point. The customer would pick the bandwidth that they want on a given instant basis and pay for it on a dollars-per-bit basis with the billing and the OSS functions incorporated. If you do that, you basically take the LEN (Line Equipment Network) out of the central office and put it in the home device. So you have extended the network to an intelligent node that is at the user. When I say “living unit,” it could be a small business, it could be a large business, but the application is a different problem with a large business. Those are evolutionary things for our product. Every time the Chairman of Bell South, and this is my long-term friend Duane Ackerman and I get close to each other he asks me when we are going to do the integrated terminal at the voice/data/video. My response is always the same thing: twelve months after you give me a purchase order. We are at that stage. The product, as you can probably tell by now, pulls together an awful lot of things that I have worked on in my life. I am now sixty-eight years old. This is probably my swan song; at least I hope so. The notion is to build this product and to market it either through a telco or through retail. We are currently distributing it through Office Depot. Our customer is MCI Worldcom. The notion is also to build a consortium of telcos around the world with input to the product in particular difficulties. We have a collaborative consortium currently with British Telecom where we have done joint development. They have paid for a portion of it and we paid for the rest. That is in beta trial now in England, and we are under review with Deutsche Telecom. This goes back to some of the things I talked about earlier. The same person who was on the Advisory Council for the Olympics reviews our product currently. We have now been approved technically by Bell South, US West, and Southwestern Bell, and we are under review by TelMex. Offshore there is a straightforward standard called DECT. It is a European standard that has now been accepted by forty-seven countries. Designing into that product is considerably easier because you can use off-the-shelf technology, and the standard is such that you have a known quantity to work with. It is not as flexible. You end up with a product that may not be quite as robust as you would like. But on the other hand, the trade-off is by far the more valuable. So that European product is ready for launch, pending approval by the European community technically as well. By the way, Maurizio Decina was on the Advisory Council for Boston Technology. I still have a lot of contact with Maurizio. I have had contact with a number of the professional people on IEEE all along. One of our Home Wireless board members is Dick Jelkut, who was the president of NYNEX and a very strong IEEE member. He has his own company now having retired from Bell Atlantic. We just finished our last round of financing before an IPO. We have about one hundred and twenty mouths to feed times three for the children and wives. We are probably somewhere between six and twelve months away from an IPO, hopefully. We will develop along the lines of what the market will dictate, which will vary from country to country. But it will also have the fundamental notion of an Integrated platform that terminates the network in its many varied forms. As a user interface, it provides a user ease of use and prompt information. You mentioned its use as connecting a portable device to a local network. I suppose it could also be a voice communication device. Yes. It has all the functions of an intercom set. In fact, when we were writing down the specs for it originally, I just took a 1A key system and wrote it out because I had a 1A key system going. You probably don’t know, but the 1A key system was the workhorse for the old network. It was extraordinarily good. It has never been duplicated. But it also looks a lot like a key system like NorStar, which is the leading Nortel voice system. It has a PBX key system functions for voice. It also connects to LANs and it has an automatic connection to the Network interface. Which coupled with the Telco’s desire to integrate digital carrier DSL would probably be the trigger driver for the device. The price range is between five to six hundred dollars for a starter set. When I saw the name of the company, I was thinking of home automation, which many people are talking about these days. Our notion on that is there are many people in that territory and a lot of activity going on with Smart appliances. As long as you follow a base ten standard, what we will do is simply to interface with all home automation. In fact, we have a point issue of our generic, which is due out in May or June, that would incorporate home automation. Bell South has what they call their all-in-one solution center in Jacksonville. Starting Monday of this last week, they will be pushing our product as an all-in-one solution. They are very much interested in home security as a home automation system. We can interface with that. Turn appliances on remotely. All you really need is a Radio Shack interruptible circuit breaker and you are in, if you want to be on a wireless basis. You will have the flexibility of putting in a jack for whatever appliance that you want, other than having to rewire the house. Standardization and the IEEE You mentioned the standardization issue before. Just some observations on standards in general. I have been watching standards for years and years. A person named Ted Erma is still the technical standards person for the United Nations telecommunications group. They have been struggling for years and years and years. It is very difficult to get participants who have vested interests in one approach versus another to come in and come to terms. So standardization has had, in many ways, a black name because it took so long. If you stand back and look at it on a broader basis, the standardizations have worked well, particularly if they can get in ahead of time. That is, before you have a large embedded base to deal with. For station sets companies like IBM or Motorola or Microsoft are pushing hard for a particular standard because they believe they are dominant. Then people come along and want to change it because there is a better way to do it. There almost always is. That is a real dilemma. The ATM user group is a good example of an organization that got in early, got some standards out quickly that were accepted before there was a large embedded base. Currently in the world standards, there is DECT for wireless sets. There are a great deal of other initiatives, one of which is Bluetooth that is a combination of various organizations. Everybody wants to do a standard. That is not what we are after. We are not after component devices. What we want is a platform control device—we call it the transport—that interfaces with a wide variety of things, whether it is black telephones, Bluetooth architecture, or whatever. My own personal view is that standards will gradually take place over time and become more efficient. But right now it is wide open. Even such things as spread spectrum, which may seem to be settled, like a Qualcomm spread spectrum architecture, you want to head on into GSM, which is a world standard as opposed to a North American standard. The difficulty with GSM is that it does not have some of the values of say a Qualcomm spread spectrum capacity. GSM now has an architecture migration plan that would produce similar capacity and likeness. So you have to say to yourself, where will Qualcomm enter in on that? Qualcomm being almost the American product and GSM being the European product. When you can take a GSM telephone set and call anywhere in this country or anywhere in the world, but you cannot do that with a North American devices, then that is a distinct disadvantage. One of my views is that Maurizio’s notion as applied to the IEEE specifically, but he really had a deeper feeling about internationalization standards bodies being a mechanism of how to do things. He would say how very inefficient and terrible they are, but he would also be supportive of the notion that once you have a standard, it needs to be a world standard as opposed to just being a European standard. Do you think an institution like the IEEE, even an internationalized IEEE, which has its own standard setting section, is the best way to do things? Or do you think a more industry-based group is more efficient? Currently the IEEE has a standard of 802.11. Home Wireless Networks is actually using that, and it has become the industry standard worldwide. It is 2.4 Gigabit frequency. It is a very good example of a standard that was needed for data and for wireless. It seems to have been accepted by just about everybody now. It did have some competition at the start, but it all washed away. So yes, I think it is one of the major functions of IEEE to assist in the construction of standards. Now, you have the Telecom Agency of the United Nations, which also has the same charge as well with worldwide funding. Then you have all the user groups that sit on top of that or underneath it, if you will, who have had a much better success rate. If you take the 802.11 model, and it has a whole series of successions to it, there is a tremendous opportunity there for a major contribution of IEEE. Functions of professional organizations and the IEEE I have not said much about IEEE. I am a fellow in the IEEE. I am also a fellow in the IEC, which is the International Engineering Consortium, generally for the same reasons because it promotes network architecture. I think that professional organizations, particularly the IEEE since it is probably the largest worldwide and certainly one of the most effective, have several functions that need to be focused on. One is the exchange of ideas. The Internet certainly facilitates that. It is interesting that no one really pushed the Internet other than the Federal government with funding. It was basically an academic idea. But there were many opportunities for IEEE at one point or another to interject itself into the process in a welcome way. I worry a little bit about the Internet’s intermediate timeframe because sooner or later somebody has to pay for it. There has to be some commercialization there to get the quality level. My own personal view is that it will probably split at some point and the original academic notion of the Internet will probably be the non-charged portion, and then the portion with reliability and quality as a major factor for voice and video would be another commercial portion. They would not separate; they would just have dual billing charges perhaps. I also worry about the Internet’s architecture relative to some of the tried and true formulas for network congestion. I think there is a role for IEEE there in assisting and gaining some sanity back into network congestion questions. I went into a Traffic Engineer’s conference once where I was giving a talk. I was throwing bigger and bigger software and hardware at these kinds of problems. My big thing at the time was timeslot allocation. Inside of the switch when you needed the timeslot, instead of it being dedicated to a particular port, you would have a reserve set of timeslots that you would allocate to high usage ports. This is going to happen, more or less. But the notion that you could throw hardware at an infinite problem is crazy. The infinite problem has to have some level mathematical congestion and guidance. I think the IEEE has a definite role to play there. Another role for IEEE is the professionalization of the organization. I am a registered professional engineer and have been a registered professional engineer since I joined them in 1965. I have been politicking to get it so that if you practice public safety or welfare then you had to be registered. Well, the industrial exemption precludes that because all the engineers in all the industries are just never going to want that to happen. On the other hand, upgrading it for the non-registered engineers from a professional standpoint I think is a real role for the IEEE. It is an encouragement for the younger engineers particularly to see that it is a profession as opposed to just simply a place to work. Atlanta is probably one of the more successful IEEE sections around. It has about thirteen to fourteen hundred people in it. I have not spoken a lot about that, but I have been active in the Atlanta section since I have been in Atlanta, obviously. That is how I became the Chairman of the SuperComm in 1990. I was in the local section. The local sections have a hard time with funding. I think some of these surplus funds probably ought to be returned to the section to get a higher quality of speakers and better meeting locations. Just simple things like paying for the newsletters. I think that probably needs to be readdressed to provide more local financial support from the dues back to the local section. I think that would be quite helpful but very difficult to do politically because of the embedded administrative staff and the myriad of demands on the current funding structure. This is a particularly good time because of the surpluses. The surpluses, at least the ComSoc surpluses, have come about because of the wildly successful conferences. There is some thought that maybe those have seen their heyday and are beginning to taper off. I know that the 1998 IEEE SuperComm Conference was not nearly as profitable to the local section as the 1990 was, for instance, for whatever reasons. I am not much for job security through the profession; that is an individual thing. That is what profession is all about. Even salary protection I think is also an individual thing. It is a vehicle to enable the individual to move along professionally to go ahead and get their member status and move up through the ranks and take an active role in it. I wonder about the fragmentation of the various organizations like Comsoc. There are so many now. It seems to me that there is a place for five or six. Once you get to the fifteen or twenty, then no one has a great program unless they come together, which might be a good idea too. That would be a very difficult one to do politically. But perhaps with more joint activities, particularly conferences, can accomplish that. The last thing for an IEEE role going forward is the further enhancement of this globalization notion. IEEE is not an American institution but in fact is a global institution. The various national engineering societies are, as far as I know, still very healthy. I have wondered whether the French engineering society or the Italian engineering society are particularly interested? They have not been in the past. How would the IEEE actually globalize engineering? Part of Maurizio’s notion was not to try to compete with national engineering societies, but to join them on a joint venture basis. The problem with that is that they receive benefits but do not pay the dues. You are basically subsidizing these members. There is a balance that you have to strike. There is an Australian society, which I have spoken at several times. Certainly there is at least one Italian one there, and there is a fairly substantial one in Russia. They are interested in job security and job procurement. Everyone has things in which they are interested. The idea of simply amalgamating the various societies on some joint venture basis makes a lot of sense. But you have to do it in such a way that you do not subsidize the world with the IEEE American dues. This is not an easy task because that is the principal reason why they would want to join in with the IEEE on a shortsighted basis. Impact of the Cold War on R & D; hacking and defense vulnerabilities I would like to ask you a question, getting back to the earlier part of your career when you were still down in Florida. At AT&T in the 1950s and the 1960s, I have heard that there were certain technologies that were developed with the Cold War in mind—survivability from attack and so forth. That language later passes out of being talked about. I wonder if at the more local level if there were things that the telephone companies did in installing or in maintaining or in planning their systems that reflected those times? As the Network Head for Southern Bell, I carried a top-secret security rating, and that got me into a lot of things. Of course, part of that was the bombs’ falling scenario. There were a number of convened “bombs falling” committees operated for four or five years. I sat through many of their meetings; not because I was the Network Head of Southern Bell but because somebody wanted me to go there. My notion was that if the bombs fall and destroy the network, they ought to bypass the opportunities through the telco internal administrative networks. All that was needed was to connect at a crucial point. I think in some fashion that notion might have received some deployment, but not a lot. I think the Cold War ended before the committee was really able to do much. After the fire where the three astronauts were killed, NASA developed what they called the life support philosophy: No system that had life support requirements would be a single component network. It could not fail with a single component failing. It had to have at least two. In some cases if it was very critical, multiplicity. So I did many things as far as our interface. For one thing, colleagues and I walked our way through the swamp and put in a bypass microwave route down to Green Swamp coming up from the south and going up to Canaveral from Lakeland. Thus, life support redundancy became a component of the design criteria for NASA. At the Southern Bell network, we applied that with rings. The rings notion of failsafe—so that if you cut a ring it would still operate—comes out of that architectural philosophy. That is pretty much what the network is at this point. Because of the high reliability requirements, there are very few components. In fact, one of the things you do when you look at a network is to see if there are any points in that network (if they were to fail) would cause the network to fail? And if the answer is yes, then you have failed in the design. Whenever we read about somebody’s network going down because somebody put a backhoe through something somewhere, you say to yourself, “Yes. I can understand that. Somebody screwed up.” Not necessarily because they were stupid because they are certainly not stupid. But there is a lesson you have to learn relative to what you are willing to pay for redundancy and increased reliability. So, the bombs falling scenario had a lot of impact on the material outcome of design. In fact, there is a strange thing that has to do with satellites, which is the most vulnerable of all mechanisms. At least they have the value of having a universal footprint but it would be the first thing you would go hit in any kind of a war scenario. Were there ever any kind of underground trunk lines to be hidden from satellite cameras? Every operating company had its own bombs’ falling plans. Ours was nearby to go to. I don’t know what you were supposed to do when your wife came to the door and knocked on the door, but the idea was that you would go to this place that would be embedded in concrete. You could up and run the communications access. There were some underground facilities where people were expected to go and work? Yes. I always wondered just how I would handle my wife and children at the door. I concluded that this was the stupidest thing I had ever heard of. What has happened to those? Is that system still in place? No, no. First off, the food is rotted by now, I guess. When you get to the point of spending a lot of money—you would need to have redundant communications access to that site—generally people would back away from it. There was a limited amount of that. There was the notion that you would, in fact, produce some sort of administrative plan. We would have monthly or quarterly war room exercises. The real danger turned out to be the hackers. They began to materialize about 1987 or 1988. I do not know if you have read the book, The Cuckoo’s Egg, it is a description of a person at the University of California at Berkeley who was in charge of telecommunications. He was defunded from his NSF grant, so he became the IP person for the campus. He couldn’t reconcile the billing. He was an astronomer by training and trade, and so he was very precise in his measurements. He kept finding a half-hour or so discrepancy in his billing. It turned out it was these hackers coming in from Germany. The book is about two or three years of activity and then tracing them down. It was about that time that the hackers started surfacing all over the network. A lot of money has been spent to begin to mitigate that. I gather that it is now worse than it was then because the hackers have progressed faster than the defense mechanisms. So, I do think that we are probably most vulnerable at this point, from a national defense standpoint, by computer hacking and intrusion. That goes in two directions. One is the mechanical direction and the other is the human engineering direction. We received an alert one Fourth of July that the hackers were going to attack. I called Bellcorp using a cellular phone. Irwin Doris, who was the Bell Corp EVP at the time said, “You are talking on a cell phone. That is not secure.” I said, “It is a whole lot more secure than the landline telephone you have in your office. We are about to get hit and we need to put out a national alarm.” Sure enough, we did get hit. They knocked out 4E in California. It was not as bad as we thought it was going to be. I shut my maintenance channels down, which was the principal source for hackers because those are generally dial-in. It is almost impossible to guard against a dial-in. You can defend the network for short periods of time. I was the security officer for Bell South at the time. It was a false danger of bombs falling. The real danger is ongoing and forward going which is the likelihood of computer hacking, either economically or for other reasons such as terrorist. Powering and backup power for emergencies As an analogy of the Cold War issue is still having some permanent effect on the telephone business, when you were down in Florida, was there anything about the physical plant that reflected the special environmental conditions that occasionally arise from tropical storms? Yes. One of the other big things in my life has been powering. It turns out that one of the limitations to fiber to the home has been the disproportionately high cost of power. Thirty percent of the cost in an all-fiber network is for backup power. A man named Jess Chernac, with some input from Southern Bell and myself, developed what was called a Controlled Environmental Vault, which really enabled electronics to be distributed in to the outside plant from the central office. CEVs look like giant concrete vaults. You lay them in the ground in two pieces and seal them. They are underground, and they have backup power, commercial power, and natural gas backup power. That is generally where you put your last electronics in the network; although now, we have extended that to the optical network devices in some cases. In Florida and in the Carolinas (which has been hit more than Florida lately), you have to have a wide array of backup generators. When Hugo hit Charleston, Charleston was without power for six weeks because it knocked the electrical transmission lines leading to the city. Much of the telephone carrier network in Charleston worked for six weeks on tiny fifteen or twenty-five kilowatt generators. The Telco plant probably now has backup generators that could run forever as long as you put gas or diesel in them that flow to the batteries. That is why the telephone network continues to work. When you get out in the field, if you have electronics but no backup power, you need some way to get it. We used to use a couple hundred gas generators. We would chain the generators to the pole, and we found that people would cut the cable and steal them. If you are cold, and your family is in the dark, and there is this great generator sitting out there, there is not a lot of morality concern connected with that. That was at best a half-decision. My own personal view is that the longer term solution to that problem—which has many other solutions tied to it—is the notion for distributed power. The deregulation of the power industry would lend itself to doing that, if in fact you could have a reasonably low cost natural gas generator in a substantial number of homes. Number one, you would not have all the hits on your TV sets and computer, etc. You would have much more stable power. You wouldn’t have to reset your clocks all the time. More importantly, you would not have to buy all those power interruptors. You would also not have to build many new central generators, because if you can break the peak power at four to seven in the evening and ten to twelve in the morning, then you do not need to build anymore generators for many years to come. But that does involve a very substantial deployment of power. At one time, I had the notion that at off-peak times you could raise this water that would be your storage water for the living unit under power failure conditions, hurricane or tornado conditions. Then in the daytime, use potential energy to generate power during the peak power. That is not economical, but gas power is. That is probably one of the longer-term solutions. To go directly to your question, during the Cuban Crisis in the early 1960s, I was the transmission engineer for Central Florida, which extended from Hollywood to Saint Augustine and included Orlando. We were on invasion alert at the time. We thought the Russians were about to invade south Florida and the Keys. We built a backup route from Key West to Miami in about two weeks. Being on duty, we had twenty-four-hour coverage of our control centers, which would operate during a hurricane or other natural disaster. But this was an alert, and we put a telephone in the toilets for those taking a break. It was pretty serious stuff during that crisis. Of course, we had Patrick Air Force Base in the Cape. That was a military installation, and they a firing range that actually skirted the north end of Cuba, so there was particular vulnerability to that. I think the Cold War had a big effect on the military. The Bell System did the Autovon network, which was a four-wire network. We had the astronaut network, which became a four-wire network. The idea there was that in the United States, the Bell System would provide the communications for the bombs falling scenario. That was, by the way, one of the two principal things for Bellcorp. It was to take over the national security functions of AT&T and to provide basic research for the organizations.	http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki6/index.php?title=Oral-History:Richard_Snelling&oldid=16882	<urn:uuid:b86bda62-05b8-41a4-87f5-d38941f3f8c1>	en	0.984882	0.042493
Grand Prix Vancouver Day 1 Blog • Print • Saturday, 1:30 p.m. - Grand Prix Trial Winning Decklists by Josh Bennett • Mykel Tauber Grand Prix Trial Winning Deck Grand Prix Vancouver 2012 Kayla Upshaw Grand Prix Trial Winning Deck Grand Prix Vancouver 2012 Matt Lewis Grand Prix Trial Winning Deck Grand Prix Vancouver 2012 Donald Maxmen Grand Prix Trial Winning Deck Grand Prix Vancouver 2012 Jeremy Lochridge Grand Prix Trial Winning Deck Grand Prix Vancouver 2012 • Saturday, 1:50 p.m. - Grand Prix Trial Winning Decklists, Part 2 by Josh Bennett • By a sad twist of fate, Brandon Muir's Trial-winning decklist was tossed into the Olympic flame outside, and then given a Viking funeral into Vancouver Harbor. Mr. Muir, I apologize for this incident, but you can still brag to whomever you'd like to that you deck was so good, it needed to be shipped off burning into the ocean. • Saturday, 1:50 p.m. - Sealed Deck Exercise by Marc Calderaro • So I sat here, typing up deck lists, staring at my computer screen, while everyone else around me was building decks, casting spells and generally smiling. I couldn't take it anymore. I looked at the glistening white packs of Avacyn Restored beside me. I looked back at my computer. I did that looking order again. It was no use. If we had the power to resist such urges, we might not be here today. I opened six packs, and instinctively sorted them by color and converted mana cost. It looked like the makings of a pretty good Sealed deck. But just to verify, I took the cards to some of my friends to see what they thought about it, and how they might build it differently than I would. I found both perennial champion Brian Kibler and Mr. Hot-Streak Matt Costa (In this last month alone, Matt Costa has finished in the Top 16 of two Grand Prixes, and seemingly couldn't lose at the Star City Games Invitational. This is, of course, not to mention his Pro Tour Dark Ascension Top 8 finish which wasn't too long ago, now was it.). They sat down with me, one at a time, and talked about the pool. Here's the pool I gave them. What would they think? What has changed in their card opinions since the beginnings of Avacyn Restored? How would ya'll build this? Pretty much every color here has something going for it. As Costa looked at his red pile, he remarked, "This would make a good deck base ... if all these other cards weren't here." He was referring to the White and Blue, well, and the Green and Black. "Can I have this one? Is this really a real pool?" Costa said as he fanned out the blue and the white together. He told me he's really started to value cards like Ghostly Flicker since the start of the format. As most decks are only playing one to two removal spells, players hold them until the most critical moment to get the best value. Costa said if you sandbag a Ghostly Flicker the whole game, you can easily "change the critical turn of the entire game" in your favor. Costa laid out the two Seraph of Dawn next to the Mist Raven and the Deadeye Navigator. This deck is just solid all the way around, he told me. With the good flyers and a decent curve, you can do very well with this. But then he, couldn't ignore the elephant in the room any longer. And by "elephant", I mean "wolf". Matt Costa Costa grabbed the Wolfir Silverheart and seven other green cards (Wandering Wolf, Nightshade Peddler, Timberland Guide, Pathbreaker Wurm, Gloomwidow, Druid's Familiar and Terrifying Presence) and threw out the blue. He pointed to the two Seraph of Dawn: "We're definitely playing white." The build was much more consistent. There were much more two-drops and just more beefy dudes. Though the deck stretched a little for the last couple cards, Costa was happy enough to play cards like Bladed Bracers. Though, he pointed out how much he doesn't like equipment in general. "So often I usually feel like I'm 0-for-1-ing myself." This statement sounded unbelievable coming from the man who's nickname is pretty much Delver of Secrets. He looked at the deck he'd built, and decided, "8-1." I agree. Unless, of course I was piloting it. Then I would earn a solid 6-3 and then whine about how the cards weren't good enough. However, when Brian Kibler picked up the same pool, he immediately lined up green and red. "This Sealed format in particular is so dependent on good creatures." Kibler feels that way so much, he said that after playing the format as much as he has, he'd rather have a Hanweir Lancer than a Pillar of Flame, easy. "This is not necessarily a 'Take-the-removal-spell' format; it's much different than other Sealed formats." The red initially attracted him thanks to the two Havengul Vampire and the Mad Prophet. The deck was built and ready to go before he even looked at the other colors. "Woah." That was all he said when he went through the blue. "Woah." He said it again going through the black. He didn't even say anything going through the white, he just immediately ditched the green and suited up the white next to the red. He clearly thought it was a better deck. He held up the Defy Death and said, "This card is really good in this deck." With so many high-value targets to return, and about four of them Angels (Angel of Jubilation, Goldnight Redeemer, Seraph of Dawn one and two), the Sorcery could really do some heavy lifting. "I really think Defy Death is a sleeper card in this format." He said that with such little removal in the format, the kill spells will always be directed at big important things. Having a way to bring those important things back is key. This was reminiscent of Costa's argument about Ghostly Flicker. Additionally, Defy Death and Mad Prophet allows a pseudo-Reanimator, where you discard, say Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and bring it back on turn five as a quasi 14/14. That's just plain fun. After this build, he found Costa's initial build of blue and white, but conspicuously counted the number of flyers and threw a Favorable Winds into the fray – a card Costa had tossed aside. He said he doesn't usually play it, but with the 2/4 Lifelink Seraphs, he felt +1/+1 was very important. "The difference between two power and three power is huge. And plus, your Gryff Vanguard can start to trade with some real creatures." This argument was the same he used to include Bladed Bracers. Brian Kibler Kibler flirted with the White-Green build Costa eventually settled on, but dismissed it for his last set-up fairly quickly. "There's just not enough cards, and I don't need to stretch." He then talked about Quality vs. Quantity in this format. "More so than other Sealed formats, the drop-off in card quality from the good to the bad is very steep. It's much better to have the color that gives you the most stuff, rather than the color that gives you the best stuff." Though the two pros settled on different builds, they got there through similar means. I asked them both about black and why it was the color they never really considered. Even though the color contained Barter in Blood, Dark Impostor, Homicidal Seclusion, Human Frailty, Undead Executioner and Bone Splinters, neither of them gave the color a serious consideration. Their answer taught me about a real lesson learned from the beginning of this format to the end – Synergy is very important. This pool of black had none of it. Everything is just mashing up against everything else. "There's a real tension between the Soulbond and the 'Loner' mechanics," and Kibler continued that kind of puts black at odds with everything else (perhaps a loner, if you will). And without specific sets of cards, it's just not going to work. Even Barter in Blood, which seems like a knockout, is a card Costa said is just not worth it here. "Barter in Blood is weird. Your decks needs to be able to set up into it to really benefit from it. This deck can't do that, and all the cards you want to play are four-drops, which makes casting it all the more awkward. You're probably just going to turn on their Homicidal Seclusion or something." It seems the lesson is black requires more than just good cards, it needs synergy. And that's why those Butcher Ghouls that everyone insists are good, are so good. They make the entire color function properly. The red explanation was a little simpler. It just needed two-drops and a couple Thatcher's Revolt. With two of that red sorcery, the Red-White deck Kibler had sleeved would've been a real contender. And with a Kruin Striker or two, both Costa and Kibler said they would've brought that to the tables. Both players gawked at the card pool after submitting their final builds to me and told me they can only hope to have the building issues they've been discussing with me with their own Sealed pool for the Grand Prix. I wished them both luck and went back to my computer screen. Sigh. • Round 4 Feature Match - Eugene Ho vs. Paul Rietzl by Marc Calderaro • As the two shuffled up, Paul Rietzl inquired, "So where you from?" "Montreal," Eugene Ho responded. "Ah. So you a hockey fan?" "Well, it's hard not to be." Ho smiled. Rietzl smiled in response, but didn't say anything at first. Eventually, he embarrassingly said, "Don't tell anyone, but I don't really like hockey." Listen folks, I've been in Canada for one day, and I know that's one of the things you just don't say around these parts. (Another thing is, "So when are you going to join the United States?" I learned that lesson the hard way.) Ho is a Canadian native who's been known to write for the site Paul Rietzl, well, he's Top 8-ed three Pro Tours, winning one of them, and six Grand Prixes, also winning one of them. He's pretty good. After the two presented their decks, the first game got underway. Game 1 Ho started with a mulligan, but got out of the gates well enough with a Kruin Striker, while both red and white lands were represented. Rietzl had opened with a Nephalia Smuggler paired with a Nightshade Peddler. The Striker crashed into the red zone as a 3/1 lifelink trample thanks to a soulbond with a Nearheath Pilgrim, and the red two-drop traded with the Smuggler. This was a good life-swing to start off the game, but Ho was stuck on three land and couldn't capitalize on his slight board advantage, and the hint of a more aggressive deck than Rietzl's. He found the land after Rietzl dropped a Lone Revenant (that bonded to the Peddler) and Ho cast a Vigilante Justice before passing the turn back to the Pro Tour champion. Rietzl thought a lot, then used Peel From Reality to clear Ho's only blocker and was rewarded with a free Impulse when the Revenant got there. Rietzl kept a Geist Snatch with mana up to cast it, and did just that when Ho attempted a Havengul Vampire. The board got worse for Ho. The 1/1 Spirit and Revenant were joined by a Soul of the Harvest. Ho tried to catch up with his Seraph of Dawn and the recast Nearheath Pilgrim (killing the flying Spirit with some good ol' vigilante justice), but Rietzl had more cards in hand and an Alchemist's Refuge for fun. He Amassed the Components for even more fun-time advantage. However, what he was trying to play around, and was trying to account for, was the Thatcher's Revolts that could turn the tides at any time. Ho currently had one in-hand, and six mana waiting for the tappin'. The score was 8-18 in favor of Rietzl. If he drew a second, or another synergistic spell, he could claw back. Ho was not rewarded on his draw step, but he cast a Mad Prophet, teaming it with his Pilgrim, and brought the totals to 10-16, thanks to lifelink. Nonetheless, he was woefully behind on the board, and Rietzl's card advantage was not letting up. Once his soul-bound friends went Into the Void, Ho said, "Yeah, that's game." Paul Rietzl 1 – 0 Eugene Ho The Canadian native clearly had some local support. As a friend walked by the table he chanted his name, garnering some surprise from Rietzl. "What?! Come on!" He smiled. I guess he'd have to find solace in his 1-0 lead. Paul Rietzl Game 2 Again Ho had to mulligan and again he had a Kruin Striker on turn two (this one was plucked off the top of his deck). With the aid of a Fervent Cathar the next turn, Ho swung in for 5 damage, right past Rietzl's Nephalia Smuggler. Rietzl answered with a Latch Seeker to get himself into the race, and traded his Smuggler, again, for the Striker, sinking to 13. After a Latch Seeker attack back, the score was 17-13 for Ho and a Nephalia Smuggler #2 and Triumph of Ferocity came down after combat. Ho used Pillar of Flame to temporarily turn off the green enchantment, but had no guys that could really attack. He remedied this for his future turns with a Cathars' Crusade. This earned a look from Rietzl who asked, "You got one card in your hand?" Ho picked the card up off the table. "It's a good one." He wasn't lying. "I believe you." Rietzl didn't miss a beat and cast a Wandering Wolf and Latch Seeker #2. The Scrapskin Drake he'd cast last turn attack his opponent down to 15. And then, the "good one" came down. Thatcher's Revolt. I'm not a doctor, but I've heard that Thatcher's Revolt + Cathars' Crusade could require some major surgery. Mad Prophet and Fervent Cathar, the two biggest creatures at 5/5, were blocked by Latch Seeker and Nephalia Smuggler. Rietzl took 8 from the rest. He went down to 5. It was 15-5 and he got the turn back staring at two 5/5s and a severely diminished board. It was enough to earn a game three. Paul Rietzl 1 – 1 Eugene Ho Eugene Ho Game 3 Rietzl got to go first for the inaugural time in the match and his first spell was a Scrapskin Drake. Ho again had a Kruin Striker, this time a turn late, and he took a couple battle wounds from the flying blue dude. Rietzl followed the scrap with a Latch Seeker, but a miracle Terminus sent all the creatures to the bottom of the library for a measly one mana. Rietzl cast an Amass the Components, dug a couple cards into his deck and said, "I gotta get back to those creatures faster." This game had an entirely different tone from the last two; it was much slower and more relaxed. This was ironic because a crowd was gathering around the table. At this tournament, the feature match tables are set in the middle of the room so people can stand around at all angles. It's pretty imposing. Lone Revenant came into the red zone from Rietzl, but Ho had a Mad Prophet up and a Zealous Strike awaiting. However, awaiting from Rietzl was a Peel From Reality. "Peel from Reality, burn burn burn. Tell us the lesson that we should learn." (Yes, that was a reference to a 20-year-old children's program; get over it. After recasting the red looter, Ho cycled like, well, mad to find an answer to the 4/4 who gets to cast free spells while dealing damage. Ho was down to 13 and was running out of time. To add to this problem was a giant Pathbreaker Wurm who gave the Revenant and himself trample. Ho had both Guise of Fire and Pillar of Flame in his hand, but they were little relief for the blue green beasts that were incoming. Ho took ten damage and sunk to 3. He drew his card for the turn and laughed. It was another Guise of Fire. At this point, he could eventually stack up enough to deal with a 4-butt, however that wouldn't exactly solve all his current issues. He attempted the 1-for-3, and Rietzl had another Peel from Reality ready...burn burn burn. Ho extended his hand. • Roundtable: Live Magic Streams, with Sam Black, Brian Kibler and Tom Martell by Josh Bennett • Live Magic Video is the biggest thing to hit our game in a long time, and judging by the viewership our appetite for it is voracious. Meeting this demand is the rise of live Magic Online streams, where pros and amateurs alike show off their skills and chat with the audience. Simply load up the page, and a video window gives you a player's-eye-view of their Magic Online client. Alongside this is a chat window where you can type in your questions and comments for the streamer. Three of the most-watched Magic streamers are in attendance this weekend: Sam Black, Brian Kibler and Tom Martell. After building their sleep-in special Sealed Decks, I grabbed them to pick their brains about streaming. To start things off I lobbed the obvious softball: Why stream? All three gave me a puzzled look and said in near unison "Because it's fun," but after a brief laugh at my expense, they moved into a serious discussion. Black: It's a lot of fun being able to interact with your audience. But even beyond that it gives you a good feel for what people are interested in. As a writer that's an invaluable restource. Martell: One thing I really like is the instructional element. I used to teach chess, so I definitely enjoy explaining strategies and lines of play. It's also helpful to me because it forces me to articulate the reasoning behind some of the plays I make. In Magic you make a lot of mental shortcuts, you have to, and sometimes you can unknowingly get stuck with the wrong ones. Your audience can help challenge your assumptions. Kibler: I love having that interactivity. Another big thing for me is getting that instant feedback from the audience. You get to see a lot of different points of view. Black: In a way that really helps give you a "Big Picture" look at a format. When I stream a draft, my viewers will be telling me their thoughts for each pick. That gives me a better understanding of what the popular view of a partiuclar card is, even if it's not the correct one. Kibler: And of course I love the celebrity of it. You know, it's awesome to have another way to connect with my fans. Here I interjected. Isn't it difficult to maintain that rapport, the constant interactivity with your audience, while playing Magic? Kibler: Oh you play worse. Martell: You play substantially worse. Black: I'll tell my audience, yes, I'm terrible. I'm making a ton of mistakes here. But it's worth it. It's more important to have fun and be entertaining. Kibler: I've had some catastrophic misplays just because I was so caught up talking with the audience. So then it's not about maintaining the highest level of play? Kibler: Well yes and no. I mean you still play as best you can, but I wouldn't stream a big tournament like the MOCS, that I really wanted to win. Martell: Especially since your hand is basically on display for anyone who wants to see it. For the most part though the audience is actually really great that way. I once had some troll messaging my opponent what was in my hand, and my opponent told me what was happening and apologized. Kibler: Yeah I've had people in my stream channel say "Oh you're in the same draft as me, so I'm shutting you off now." Black: It really is more personal that way. You get that kind of a connection with your audience. Martell: And it's an opportunity to show a bit more personality than might come through during match coverage, when you're completely focused on the game at hand. You can really tailor your stream to give your audience something specific. Kibler: Yeah my rule of thumb is that I wouldn't stream something I wouldn't write an article about. Black: I also really like it for trying out new constructed decks. I get to learn along with my audience. Kibler: Although there's a danger there of brewing up something awesome. Like before GP Anaheim I was streaming an Innistrad Block Jund deck, and then at the GP it was all over the top tables. Any closing thoughts? Kibler: I think Magic streaming is still growing. More people are learning about it, and more people are streaming regularly. It's starting to be a bit like TV. During the week, you know some people are going to be on, and so you tune in. Martell: I think as a tool for improving your game it's one of the best. Reading an article can only teach you so much, but this, being able to talk to pros about the specifics of what they're doing, there's no substitute for that. If you want to see how the pros do it, check out their streams and their video archives: Sam Black ( Brian Kibler: ( Tom Martell: ( • Round 5 Feature Match - Alex Hayne vs. Charlie Nguyen by Josh Bennett • It's a Canadian Grand Prix, so who better to feature than Pro Tour Champion and Team Canada Captain Alex Hayne? Following his breakout performance in Barcelona, Hayne decided to travel to more events, but had initially decided to pass on Vancouver. However the pull of a home-soil Grand Prix, even one a six-hour flight from his home of Montreal, was simply too great. This round he faces Charlie Nguyen, a PTQ regular from Seattle who recently returned to the game following a long absence. "I quit just before Ravnica, then came back during Rise of the Eldrazi. Basically the worst time to quit, and then came back having missed fetchlands AND Jace, the Mind Sculptor." At home he reps his local store - DTwenty Games. Nguyen only had two byes to his name, and is off to a great start. Alex Hayne Game 1 Things started slow, with a Cathedral Sanctifier and a Vessel of Endless Rest for Nguyen. Hayne played mountain and swamp, but had no third land and was forced to discard a Lightning Prowess. After Nguyen made Scrapskin Drake, Hayne's deck coughed up a swamp, enabling Riot Ringleader. Nguyen was stuck on land, too, but wasn't feeling the pinch. He paired a Trusted Forcemage with his Drake and hit for three in the air. Hayne returned fire with his Ringleader and naturally Nguyen declined the trade. Hayne showed the mountain he drew and played a threatening Hound of Griselbrand. Nguyen played a fourth land and tapped out for Lone Revenant, then swung in with his Drake and Forcemage. Hayne was happy to block with his Hound, trading the undying for the Forcemage. Hayne untapped and hit with the Hound. Cathedral Sanctifier dove in front. He had five mana for Marrow Bats and looked like he might be able to catch his breath. That is, until Nguyen plonked down Silverblade Paladin and soulbound it to his Revenant. Hayne threw his Riot Ringleader under the bus and untapped with a shake of his head. He attacked with his Hound of Griselbrand and Nguyen drove things from bad to worse with Ghostly Flicker on his Revenant to block. Hayne made a Mad Prophet and passed. Then came a Blessings of Nature from Nguyen. Hayne took one more turn before conceding. Charlie Nguyen Nguyen 1 - Hayne 0 Game 2 Hayne chose to play again and this time was rapidly under fire from Cathedral Sanctifier buffed by Timberland Guide. He got rid of it with Pillar of Flame, but Nguyen bounced back with Trusted Forcemage (again starting off with the perfect trio of plains, forest, island). Hayne took two and put out a Havengul Vampire, declining to block when Nguyen came in for five. Nguyen passed leaving four mana open. Was this the opening Hayne needed? He mustered a pretty big turn: Two mana for Blood Artist, then three more for Thatcher Revolt, looking to supercharge his Vampire. The tokens swung in and Nguyen revealed his trick: Not Ghostly Flicker, but Restoration Angel. It blinked the Timberland Guide and grew to a 4/5, eating one of the tokens. Blood Artist did its draining, but the big Angel knocked off another four. Nguyen played Abundant Growth and passed. Hayne had a Gang of Devils, but nothing to stop the Angel overhead. This problem was immediately exacerbated by Nguyen's Silverblade Paladin. Hayne's only hope was that Nguyen would mistakenly kill his Gang of Devils in combat, but really, does that ever happen? Charlie Nguyen defeats Alex Hayne 2-0 • Round 6 Feature Match - Terry Lau vs. Jackie Lee by Marc Calderaro • Unless you're a dinosaur like some of us, you probably haven't heard of Vancouver inhabitant Terry Lau. His last big finish in the Top 8 of Canadian Nationals in 2000, and as we talked he mused that he remembered when Channel-Fireball was a deck, not a team. After he sat down in the feature match area, he wallowed in the spaciousness of the two chairs at a table all by itself – a relief from the cramped quarters inside the endless rows of tables. He adjusted a little bit in his seat and said, "This is nice. You know, for the next event, they should offer luxury seats. For just a little extra." I immediately called my supervisor; this guy's got the entrepreneurial spirit, I tell you. These are the sort of suggestions I expect from an engineer such as he. Contrasting to Lau and my dinosaurosity is Jackie Lee. This past year has certainly been her breakout in the tournament scene, and she's been putting up some seriously consistent finishes and her articles for Star City Games are some of the best in the business. The two shuffled up and readied for the round. Lau had a quick and powerful red and black deck, sporting the classic removal, burn and just-slightly-better-than-average creatures. Lee was playing a green and white deck that could certainly overpower Lau's, if the deck could stop the initial assault. Both players kept their hands and we were off. Jackie Lee Game 1 Terry Lau started the party with a Mountain, Swamp and a Butcher Ghoul, while Jackie Lee's deck offered her a turn two Thraben Valiant. Lau cast a Searchlight Geist followed by a Havengul Vampire, attacking Lee for the first points of damage. Lee fired back with a flashed Wolfir Avenger and a Moonlight Geist. The two flying Geists traded and that meek Havengul Vampire started to get a little scary. Lee thought for a bit before eventually laying some Angelic Armaments. After taking some damage from a second Searchlight Geist, and getting to watch a second Havengul Vampire join the first, Lee equipped her Valiant and tied up the scores at 16-16. After another round of attacks, Lee bound the Avenger to a Nightshade Peddler and passed the turn back. The Vampires were getting bigger, but the threat of Deathtouch held them at bay. The two continued to trade blows, but Lau was holding back some goodies, he just needed the right moment. Lee had a trusted Forcemage, Righteous Blow and a Wildwood Geists sitting in her hands. She cast the Forcemage, bonding it with the Valiant and swung in. Lau gave his Searchlight Geist Deathtouch and blocked. Lee considered, then decided to cast her Righteous Blow on the Geist. After Lau put the Geist in the graveyard, he had to ask for another die as his Havengul Vampires continued to grow – one was a 3/3, the other a 5/5. It was 12-14. This next turn was the big one for Lau. Death Wind on Lee's Wolfir Avenger might just have been the critical play of the game. With the regenerator gone, and the Peddler no longer with Deathtouch (not to mention the Vampires ever-growing), Lau felt safe to send in his whole team. The Butcher Ghoul, Riot Ringleader and two Vampires crashed headlong into the Trusted Forcemage paired with the Thraben Valiant (with its Armaments) and the lonely Nightshade Peddler. After tons of variations put forth, Lee blocked the Ghoul with the Valiant, and the Ringleader with the Forcemage – she took ten. And she wasn't out of the woods yet. She then watched an Essence Harvest drain her for the rest of her life. If you've ever doubted the grinding power of a Havengul Vampire, try facing two of them. Terry Lau 1 – 0 Jackie Lee There was a bit of a time delay as the GGsLive feature match finished up early, so these two were moved onto the camera match. After a bit of waiting around (that's television, folks), the players saddled up for the second game. Terry Lau Game 2 Butcher Ghoul again started out the match for Lau, and it also came in for the initial point. Lee cracked back with her Moonlight Geist, and again with the Angelic Armaments. Lau's Bloodflow Connoisseur was given some Lightning Prowess as Lau even the scores at 18-18. After Lee cast a Wildwood Geist and her flyer took Lau to 16, he shot the 2/1 flyer down with his pinging Connoisseur. When Lau got the turn back, he cast a second Butcher Ghoul and a Lightning Mauler, pairing them together and hit with the Connoisseur. This match was looking like classic Red-Black vs. Green. A bunch of scrappy, annoying guys against one big, giant thing. When the Wildwood Geist suited up with the Angelic Armaments, it got even bigger and giant-ier. The Wildwood Geist made a huge, flying swing and took Lau to 9, but the backlash was just as fierce. The Vampire, the Zombies and the Berserker all came crashing in. Though Lee had the Righteous Blow for the Mauler, she still sunk to 7, and a post-combat Thunderous Wrath took out her only creature. Lee replaced it quickly with a Gryff Vanguard, but Lau had none of that, dude. And for the second time in the match, a Death Wind decided the game. Lau calmly took out the flying bird, and attacked in for lethal damage. Terry Lau 2 – 0 Jackie Lee With one more win, Lau will secure a Day-Two appearance as he rises to 6-0. Jackie Lee will have to win a couple more as she drops to 5-1. • Quick Questions - What's your favorite way that you've won a match of Avacyn Restored Limited? by Josh Bennett • Paul Rietz: Attacking Nephalia Smuggler into my opponent's Archangel, then using Alchemist's Refuge to flash in Nightshade Peddler. Conley Woods: Defeating an opponent who got up to eighty life. Thanks, Moonsilver Spear! Tom Martell: It's an obvious one, but Goldnight Commander and Thatcher's Revolt for huge blowouts. Mattias Hunt: Infinite Reflection on my opponent's Pathbreaker Wurm. David Ochoa: Playing Zealous Conscripts and then Cloudshifting it for exact damage plus one, to get around my opponent's Fleeting Distraction. Brian Kibler: Playing a red-white aggro deck that transformed into Angel Reanimator with Mad Prophets and Defy Deaths. Round 7 Feature Match - Charlie Charrois vs. Owen Turtenwald by Josh Bennett Charlie Charrois is a relatively new player from White Rock, BC, who picked up the game during Shards of Alara block. Sitting at 5-1, he's actually excited to find himself paired up against last year's Player of the Year Owen Turtenwald. After all, to be the best, you must beat the best. Long time Pro Owen meets newcomer Charlie Game 1 Turtenwald was first on the board with a third-turn Moonlight Geist. Charrois passed on two forests and an island, and Turtenwald added Corpse Traders to his team. A Nettle Swine from Charrois forced Turtenwald to hold the Traders back. He hit for two in the air and added Marrow Bats. Charrois played Trusted Forcemage, bonded to his Swine. He attacked with the big pig, and after Turtenwald made the expected block and regenerate with his Bats, Charrois played Fleeting Distraction for the save. Turtenwald untapped and dropped Blood Artist, immediately sacrificing it to his Corpse Traders. Charrois turned over his hand: Revenge of the Hunted, Terrifying Presence and three lands. After binning the Revenge, Turtenwald was in great shape. He hit for six in the air. Charrois hit back for eight and played the Nephalia Smuggler he'd just drawn. Turtenwald attacked with his fliers, drawing out the Terrifying Presence. He played Voice of the Provinces and passed the turn. Charrois drew and conceded. Turtenwald 1 - Charrois 0 Game 2 Charrois chose to play, but after a pair of lands and a Wingcrafter he stopped putting permanents on the board, despite cycling a Fleeting Distraction. Turtenwald played out four lands and a Corpse Traders. Charrois hit a land and dropped Trusted Forcemage, bonding it and attacking for two. Turtenwald swung back with his Corpse Traders and Charrois immediately traded away his Forcemage. Turtenwald replaced the Traders with Seraph of Dawn. Charrois played a second Forcemage and chose not to bond it. Turtenwald attacked for two, but had no play on his six mana. Meanwhile Charrois had Fettergeist to soulbond to his Trusted Forcemage, dominating the air. Turtenwald spent another blank turn and passed. Charrois hit for four and passed. Turtenwald took some of the sting out of the Fettergeist with Ghoulflesh, relying on his Seraph to hold the fort. Charrois flashed in Wolfir Avenger at end of turn, pulling further ahead. Charrois swung out with his Fettergeist, Trusted Forcemage and Wolfir Avenger. Seraph of Dawn blocked, and Turtenwald was down to just six. Charrois attempts to even the score Turtenwald wasn't out of it just yet. The time had finally come for Terminus. His Seraph drained Charrois for two, and then the board was swept clean. Turtenwald played Emancipation Angel, bouncing a land, and passed the turn. Unfortunately for him, Charrois wasn't yet out of gas. He still had Gryff Vanguard in reserve. Turtenwald untapped and played Blood Artist, then went for Human Frailty on the Vanguard, but Peel from Reality made a devastating save, forcing Turtenwald to replay his Angel. Charrois got another card off his Gryff Vanguard and played Somberwald Sage. Turtenwald hit for three with his Angel. Charrois declined to block, falling to thirteen. Turtenwald shored up his defences with Marrow Bats. The Vanguard returned fire, and Turtenwald blocked with Marrow Bats. Charrois showed him Terrifying Presence and Turtenwald chose to pay four life to regenerate, leaving him at just four. Charrois cluttered the board with Borderland Ranger and Geist Trappers. Turtenwald drew and considered things for a moment, then tapped a ton of mana to Death Wind away the Geist Trappers, going up to five from his Blood Artist. He swung in for seven with his fliers, threatening lethal the following turn with Blood Artist holding the ground. Charrois had other plans. He untapped and played Wingcrafter, sending Borderland Ranger to the air and dealing exactly five. Turtenwald 1 - Charrois 1 Game 3 It was an inauspicious start for Charrois, who had to mulligan down to five to start things off. However things turned around in a hurry when Turtenwald stalled on two lands. It looked like Charrois would take it easily when he followed up a turn-two Wingcrafter with Trusted Forcemage, but Turtenwald was ready with Human Frailty and Righteous Blow, erasing Charrois's board. A third land appeared at the top of Turtenwald's deck and he played Dark Impostor. Charrois restocked with Amass the Components. Turtenwald's deck was feeling kind, serving up the fourth land for Corpse Traders. Charrois continued to make up his mulligan with a Borderland Ranger. Turtenwald hit for three and added a second Corpse Traders to his board. Then Charrois tapped six for Revenge of the Hunted, killing Dark Impostor and Corpse Traders and dealing three to Turtenwald. Turtenwald's replacement Moonlight Geist looked anemic compared to Charrois's Howlgeist. Could the mulligan to five get there? Turtenwald hit for two in the air to leave Charrois at ten and played Blood Artist. The Howlgeist rumbled in, dropping Turtenwald to eleven. Charrois passed with seven open. Turtenwald hit with his Corpse Traders and Moonlight Geist. Charrois tried to hook him with Wolfir Avenger, but Turtenwald had Death Wind at the ready. Charrois took it. The life totals were twelve to four in Turtenwald's favor. Charrois swung in with both Borderland Ranger and Howlgeist, and Turtenwald wasted no time shoving Blood Artist in the way of the Ranger. Charrois played a Fettergeist. Turtenwald put up Seraph of Dawn and held back. The Howlgeist brought him down to just five. Despite a valiant effort by his opponent, Turtenwald wins this round. It was time. He swung all-out with Seraph of Dawn, Moonlight Geist and Corpse Traders. Charrois chumped the Corpse traders and ate the Geist with Fettergeist. He fell to one, and Turtenwald played the expected Terminus. Charrois had no play. Turtenwald had Voice of the Provinces, and it was enough. Owen Turtenwald defeats Charlie Charrois 2-1 Round 8 Feature Match - Brandon Nelson vs. Aeo Paquette by Marc Calderaro Aeo Paquette is another player from Canada's Magic past, who's name, like Terry Lau's, means something if you've been playing for, oh, about eight years. In 2004 he not only Top 8-ed a Pro Tour, but was the Runner-Up to the World Championship. That was the year the young Julien Nuijten, only fourteen at the time, took home the cup. Paquette has since moved on from the game. He says that he doesn't play with cards anymore. He said that to me while shuffling up, sitting at 6-1 at a Grand Prix with no byes. Ah, Magic players –sure you don't play cards any more. I believe you. Brandon Nelson has been putting up solid finishes for the last year or so, which started its steam-rolling with a great finish at US Nationals for 2011. Though his 6-1 was earned with three byes, his drive is just as strong, if not stronger, than Paquette's. "This is my Pre-release, by the way. I 've been reading people's cards all day," Paquette offered. See what I mean? Game 1 Brandon Nelson was shuffling up Islands and Mountains, and he started his match as such. A Fervent Cathar on turn three attacked into the blue and white board of Aeo Paquette who had a started with a Wingcrafter and a Moorland Inquisitor. The white dude cracked back and the totals were quickly 17-18 in Paquette's favor. Nelson cast and attacked with a Mad Prophet, the Cathar closely following. Wingcrafter got in the way of Cathar and they both went to the bin. When Paquette's new Scrapskin Drake joined the Inquisitor in the red zone, the totals became 13-16. The next turn saw a Spectral Prison on the Mad Prophet and an Alchemist's Apprentice as Paquette advanced his board. Nelson was able to swing the tides a little back in his favor with a Vanishment on the Drake, but he was still functionally creature-less, and he was soon knocked to 10 by the Apprentice and the Little Inquisitor that Could who was still getting there. After Amassing Components, a Mist Raven bounce on the Inquisitor, and a Pillar of Flame on a fresh Latch Seeker, Nelson had the upper hand on the board for the first time in the game. Though Paquette spent a turn replaying both the Inquisitor and the Drake, Nelson had amassed the Raven, a Nephalia Smuggler and a Narstad Scrapper. Though the American was still down 9-16, he could start to see a light at the end of the tunnel. Paquette's only response was a Spectral Gateguards and a pass back. Though Nelson wasn't going to lose, his current creatures weren't going to win it for him either. Paquette's flying Drake and the 2/5 Gateguards made sure of that. So Nelson spent his turn making a Riot Ringleader and a Latch Seeker to help break through the stalemate. A series of light Paquette attacks took Nelson to 7, then 5, but made him lose his Gatekeepers. The Latch Seeker finally came online and starting nipping at the Canadians 16 points of life. But now, with both players controlling dueling Nephalia Smugglers, and no way to remove either of them, there was an awkward wall on both sides. Each of the players simply left up four mana, and neither of them could really make a big attack profitably. This was perfect for Nelson who continued to prod and poke with the Latch Seeker. The score was now 5-10. Nelson takes a very long game 1 When Paquette passed back with no play, Nelson shrugged and activated his Smuggler. He blinked his Mist Raven and when the 2/2 flying Man-o-war came back, Paquette's own Smuggler was whisked to the top of his library. This forced the Canadian, after sinking to 7 from the Latch Seeker, to swing in with his last two creatures, the Scrapskin Drake and the Moorland Inquisitor. The score became 3-7 and Paquette tapped six for a Terminus. The sweeper caused Nelson to sigh deeply. He responded by using the Nephalia Smuggler to blink the Raven, which returned the Smuggler to his hand. Paquette ended his turn by re-casting his own Smuggler. Fearing another Smuggler stand-off, Nelson one-upped his opponent by re-casting the fat 1/1, then using a Lightning Prowess to take out the other fat 1/1 before it had time to compose itself. Now Nelson had won the Smuggler war. He was still down by four, but a new Gryff Vanguard, blinking in and out at will, would make short work of Paquette or re-fill Nelson's hand – whichever he needed. Or, of course, both. It took just a few short turns for Paquette to pack it in. The Terminus could've saved him, if Nelson wasn't holding back a hand of gas. Brandon Nelson 1 – 0 Aeo Paquette Aeo Paquette, ever the showman, decided that White wasn't doing it for him. He sideboarded out all of his white control cards and sided in a bunch of Mountains and some red meanies to go along with them. I took a look at the change as it was happening and when I sat back down, Brandon Nelson leaned over to me and asked, "So, what'd he change?" He moved his eyebrows up and down in a suggestive fashion. I told him that Aeo was simply changing the art on his basic lands. "Ahhh." Eyebrow wiggle. [Please note: The actual wiggle of the eyebrows might have just been in my mind, but Nelson's voice implied the wiggle for sure.] Game 2 Realizing they were short on time, the players quickened the pace for game two. And by "quickened the pace", I mean they both mulliganed. And in Nelson's case, twice. Scalding Devil and a Nephalia Smuggler for Paquette, to which Nelson had no response until turn four. He cast Amass the Components and stared at the cards in his hand, sinking to 15. He shook his head during his draw and took out the Smuggler with a Pillar of Flame and cast a Riot Ringleader. His land distribution was not what he was hoping. Paquette fired back a Fervent Cathar and took Nelson to 12. Nelson was trying to balance playing fast, playing right, and containing his frustration from having some great blue creatures, but only one Island on which to cast all the double-blue stuff. He made a Nephalia Smuggler and a Kessig Malcontents. Neither or which required double-blue. Fervent Cathar++Nephalia SmugglerFervent Cathar++Nephalia Smuggler Mist Raven from Paquette set Nelson's board back even further, but Paquette played it safe a declared no attacks. On his next turn however, the Mist Raven went in, a Latch Seeker came down, and a Pillar of Flame took out the Nelson's Ringleader. A miracle Vanishment delayed the 3/1 unblockable, but if Nelson didn't get something going quickly, he was not going to keep pace. He cast a Thunderbolt to take out the bouncy flyer and his next turn brought a Wingcrafter and a Fervent Cathar of his own. The Cathar and the newly winged Malcontents bustled into the red zone. Paquette events out the score 10-11 were the scores when an Aggravate pretty much murdered Nelson's board. All that he had fought for was whisked away by a simply red uncommon. The American finally got the second Island and cast a Mist Raven, which quickly went away, leaving the board to a lonely Gryff Vanguard from Paquette. Nelson saw the writing on the wall, and with the time a-wastin', he hustled for his game three. Brad Nelson 1 – 1 Aeo Paquette Game 3 Playing at blazing speed, Nelson started out, and had a Crippling Chill ready for Paquette's first attack from Falkenrath Exterminator. The Vancouver-native's next play of Hanweir Lancer was the target of a Mist Raven and cards were furiously changing zones, but no life totals were adjusted. Angel's Tomb was a serious threat from Paquette but Mad Prophet and Wingcrafter (paired together) was a decent response. Paquette, undeterred, cast a Gryff Vanguard, and attacked with his 3/3 Tomb. Nelson's board wanted time that Paquette's creatures didn't want to give him. Now facing down against a 3/2 flyer, a 3/3 flyer immune to Sorcery-speed removal and a pinger, Nelson needed to start being proactive. A Gryff Vanguard of his own was a great way beginning, but the bounced Hanweir Lancer came back down, pairing with Paquette's Vanguard, and attacked Nelson down to 14. It was 14-16 and Paquette was in the driver's seat. A Miracle came just when Nelson needed it, and Vanishment took out the Gryff Vanguard for a turn. A quick tabulation of damage happened in Nelson's head, and he sent in all his blue creatures – the Raven, Vanguard and the Wingcrafter. Only the Mad Prophet and a newly cast Narstad Scrapper stayed at home. The turn went to Paquette, who was behind for the first time in the game at 11-10. He cast a Gryff Vanguard and a Scalding Devil, severely complicating the board more. On the last turn before time ran out, Fervent Cathar stopped the new Vanguard from blocking for Paquette and Nelson attacked again with the blue creatures to make the totals 11-4 in his favor. It was now turn one of extra time and so the pace slowed down. Not coincidentally it would also be Paquette's last turn. He did not see a way to stop Nelson from attacking him for lethal the next turn, so he had to make it happen now. The board was: Aeo Paquette– 4 life, 2 cards in hand Angel's Tomb, Gryff Vanguard (paired with) Hanweir Lancer, Falkenrath Exterminator, Scalding Devil and a new Alchemist's Apprentice. Brandon Nelson– 11 life, 1 card Gryff Vanguard, Mist Raven, Wingcrafter (all tapped), Mad Prophet (flying), Narstad Scrapper and Fervent Cathar. Paquette took his time. He had to figure out how he could sneak by the damage he needed to, because Nelson was going to hit like a hurricane next turn. Paquette had tons to do with his mana just on the board, but none of it was quite enough. He cast a Fervent Cathar of his own and targeted the Scrapper. He had five land untapped and then he ungracefully slammed his hands on the table, gesticulating that he would like to attack with all his creatures. His palms kind of mushed against the creatures and kinda turned them in a sideways manner. Nelson knew what he meant. Paquette looks for an answer, but it doesn't come to him. Nelson took his time counting and recounting the damage. After moving around his two blockers, he blocked the Cathar with his own and the Lancer with the Mad Prophet. With first-strike damage on the stack, he used the Mad Prophet to cycle a land and net another. After combat the life totals became 3-4. Paquette needed one of his two outs (Thunderbolt and a Pillar of Flame). He sacrificed his Alchemist's Apprentice to look for it. He didn't find it. Aeo Paquette extended his hand and Brandon Nelson had clinched a Day-Two berth. Brandon Nelson 2 – 1 Aeo Paquette Round 9 Feature Match - Conley Woods vs. Henry Romero by Josh Bennett Seventeen-year-old Henry Romero is a player to watch. This year he has quietly Top 8'd his first Grand Prix at Seattle, and then Top 50'd Pro Tour Avacyn Restored in Barcelona. Locked in for Day 2 at 7-1, he's looking to win his last round and set up a run at another Top 8. Standing in his way is brewmaster Conley Woods from ChannelFireball. Game 1 Woods starting things out with a mulligan to six, then the first three turns went by with nothing more than lands and an Alchemist's Apprentice for Woods. He hit a couple times and then played Amass the Components. Romero laid down a fourth consecutive plains and summoned Goldnight Commander. That's when the wheels came off. Woods played his fifth land and Demonic Rising. "You sure you don't want to draw a card?" asked Romero with a smile. Woods and Romero square off Woods got his 5/5 demon. Romero found a moutain for a very tardy Kruin Striker, then took five across the chops. Woods sacrificed his Apprentice and got himself another heavy hitting demon. Still Romero was stoic. He played out another Kruin Striker and passed the turn. Woods frowned slightly. "Well, let's do some math." With pen and paper Conley worked out just how bad a Thatcher's Revolt could be. The answer was "Pretty bad." He hit for five, leaving Romero at eight, then played out Maalfeld Twins and Wingcrafter, bonding them. According to his calculations then ten toughness would be just enough. It turned out he didn't need to worry, and they were soon on to game two. Woods 1 - Romero 0 Game 2 Romero got off to a faster start, opening with Kruin Striker and Moonlight Geist. Woods failed to play anything on his first three land, and Romero had Thatcher's Revolt, so Woods began his fourth turn with just seven life. He drew and played Fettergeist. Romero played his fifth land and passed. Woods solidified his defences with Elgaud Shieldmate. Again Romero had nothing but a land. Woods gassed up with Amass the Components. Still nothing from Romero. Woods took that as the green light to go on the offensive. He killed the Moonlight Geist with Ghoulflesh, then sent the Striker home with Mist Raven. He hit for five and passed. Romero nearly beamed as he untapped and then tapped six for Terminus. Romero takes game 2 with faster start Woods wasn't done yet. He summoned Maalfeld Twins. Romero spilled out a paired Kruin Striker and Hanweir Lancer. Woods untapped and then played Vessel of Endless Rest and Demonic Rising, getting a 5/5. Romero wasted no time on his turn. He tapped a quick five for Lightning Mauler and then Kessig Malcontents, bonding them together and attacking for what was suddenly lethal damage. Woods 1 - Romero 1 Game 3 Romero had to send back his opener, but stayed on six. He had a turn-two Kruin Striker. Woods cycled Fleeting Distraction and played Demonic Taskmaster. Romero added Hanweir Lancer, paired it up to his Striker, and hit for three. Woods Amassed the Components, holding his Taskmaster back to block. Kessig Malcontents from Romero put Woods to fourteen, and then he hit with his Striker for three more. All that was undone when Woods dropped Homicidal Seclusion and drained him for seven. Despite that, Romero was still in the game. He played Spectral Gateguards, soulbonding it to his Malcontents, then hit for eight. Woods was down to ten, soon to be seventeen. Woods hit for seven more, then played Wingcrafter and Bone Spliters to get rid of the Kruin Striker. He added Haunted Guardian to his board and passed. Woods finishes off his opponent in 3. Romero took a moment to think, then hit for two with his Gateguards. Woods took the damage. Romero summoned both Lightning Mauler and Devout Chaplain, pairing them so that he could destroy the lethal Homicidal Seclusion. Woods sacrificed his Guardian, hit for four, then played Driver of the Dead. "Are you dead?" he asked. "Am I dead? What a question!" "Well, it seems like we're at that point of the game. Either you're dead or I am." "It does seem that way," agreed Romero Romero attacked all-out. Woods carefully considered his blocks, before deciding to block Devout Chaplain with Driver of the Dead. Nine damage left him at just six life. What trick did Romero have up his sleeve? As it turns out, nothing. When Woods turned his Taskmaster sideways, Romero extended the hand. Saturday, 9:07 p.m. - Quick Questions: What's the strangest card you've maindecked in Avacyn Restored Limited? by Josh Bennett Brian Kibler - "Raging Poltergeist. I was otherwise weak against fatties." Matthias Hunt – "Wild Defiance. I had two Ghostforms." Paul Rietzl - "Druid's Repository. I learned I would never have to consider it again." Alex Hayne – "Reforge the Soul. It was a mill deck with Dreadwaters, Stern Mentor, and Otherworld Atlas." Conley Woods – "Rain of Thorns. I knew there were dangerous fliers and Homicidal Seclusions in the draft." Sam Black - "I veto this question. There are no interesting answers." • Planeswalker Points • Facebook Twitter • Gatherer: The Magic Card Database • Forums: Connect with the Magic Community • Magic Locator	http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpvan12/day1	<urn:uuid:60ad106b-857f-4b9c-a29f-9a83dd7758d4>	en	0.976895	0.020228
Disclaimer: No copyright infringement intended. Previously on SOUL…after months of fighting their urges, Professor Swan and Edward experience a drunken night of kissing and groping. For Edward, things escalate quickly. The next day, Bella, in a moment of panic, finds him at the gym and suggests he end his infatuation with her. He negotiates a pause to his courting until the end of the semester: "All or nothing," she muttered, pacing. I would not pay to be in her contrary head just then, it was a mindfuck. Her shoulders slumped. "Okay, okay." "Six weeks. Then I graduate." "Six weeks." We smiled and acted like we did not willfully jail our libidos until the end of the semester. Six weeks. I was going to murder someone. The next day, and the day after that, we pretended as though our drunken night never happened. I followed Bella's lead and didn't talk about it. We acted like we'd never had the pleasure of skin-to-skin contact, as if shutting down our lust and going about our business would be la-di-da. But the cat was out of the bag. Our chemistry was off the chart, and there was no denying it. I caught her looking at me when she thought I was preoccupied; small glances that came off as tricks of the imagination to a less observant person. But I had the advantage of shadowing her for three months. She was attracted to me sexually, she had made it clear, and in my quest to make her mine, it was a promising start. I aimed to work the angle. That she didn't push me away after I confessed my intentions gave me hope. But Hope was a tough emotion to subsist on when Patience, my specialty, was failing me. I struggled to play the part of a platonic friend when I held the knowledge of a star-shaped birthmark on her left breast. It felt cruel to wait until the end of the semester, but she insisted on staying the course to save face with the university. I had no choice. The situation was driving me insane, as were my friends, who all felt compelled to add their two-cents on my love life. At Riley's, the whole gang sat at the bar celebrating the beginning of Spring Break. "Let me get this straight. She finally let you kiss her and dry-hump her on your first date?" said Ben to me. I cut Emmett a look. "What did you want me to do? He was in the room when I told Mike." "You guys are worse than a sewing circle," I told them. "Don't worry about me. I'll take it to my grave," promised Mike, hand over heart, like a Boy Scout. We all turned our heads toward Ben. "What? I just found out. Who would I tell?" "Popped your nut before you could tango, eh, young Cullen?" "Marcus. So what now? The whole bar knows?" Marcus pulled up a stool. When he got deep in his cups, he liked to either write in his corner like a misanthrope or talk your ear off. Such was my luck, he was in the mood for the latter. "It happens to everyone, son. Young Ben and I were chatting in the men's room. Do not begrudge friends who want to help." Help. That's what they called placing bets on how long Bella and I would hold out. Emmett, inspired by my newfound aggressiveness, was overconfident at two weeks. "I like this side of you," he said. "I knew you had Mr. Nasty in you." On the other hand, Mike thought my inexperience worked against me, especially with an older woman. Maybe she was testing me, he ventured, maybe she liked the chase. And Ben, he chalked it up to the go-to excuse guys my age deal in. "She's playing games, Cullen. Every woman does it, it's in their DNA." With that kind of advice, I motioned to the bartender he should cut my friends off. In the end, only one person made any sense, which came as no surprise. "You guys are dense," said Rose, disgusted with the conversation she was an accidental party to. To Ben and Mike she spoke slowly as if to children. "You need to call your mothers and ask if you weren't dropped on your heads at birth." Then she turned her elegant blonde head to my curmudgeon of a mentor. "I'm sorry, Marcus, is it?" Rose, who had landed in the great city of Tallahassee that morning with the poise and outfit that screamed young, urban professional, had demanded that Emmett and I give her a tour of our country bumpkin scene. Tally was no upstate New York, but Rose didn't want to be impressed, she wanted to be entertained. Cut the tourist crap, she had said, she wanted local color. So Emmett and I, perhaps dumbly, drove her to the first place that came to mind. She sat through our talk with the skepticism of an atheist walking into church. Marcus had gone off on a long, crude rant about man's sexual prowess, "You have to mount her like an animal." Rose had heard enough. "You may be my friend's professor, but your assessment of what women want is full of shit." Marcus gave her the full measure of his bleary stare, half-expecting, I suppose, backpedaling on her behalf. But Rose had years to hone the steely countenance that intimidated high school boys, not even the hardened Marcus was immune. Sensing that he had underestimated her, Marcus sank into his seat like a grump who decided that disturbing the hornets' nest was more trouble than it was worth. He shrugged and surrendered without a fight. "She's a live one, boys," he muttered before sulking into his whiskey. Emmett, tolerant of Marcus' grandstanding, had shown obvious impatience with his drunken ramblings. It struck me how different, almost gentle, Emmett became around Rose. He leaned in and urged her on, "Don't hold back." The blush at the tips of her ears, a sight I hadn't seen since her boy band days, said more than words. It told me the hours Emmett spent on the phone with her had made them closer, they had the sort of familiarity that explained why their hug at the airport lingered. Rose turned to me. "Bella is not playing games, not at her age, not with her life. A young guy, a student, even, comes sniffing around and how do you expect her to act? Of course she's retreating. No offense, but you can be intense when you go after what you want. Give her time to sort it out. She'll come around." We grew silent. Rose sipped on a vodka soda with a satisfied smile. "Besides, if she hasn't pushed you away so far, it's only a matter of time." She slid a ten-dollar bill toward Ben. "I give them 'til the end of the week." "Were you dead?" "If I was, you brought me back," I replied, trying to wake up. I was too groggy to know what I was saying, and to whom I was saying it. It was one-thirty in the morning and I was slowly waking from a dream that was quickly fading away. I pulled the phone away from my ear. I did not remember answering it. Five missed calls. All from Bella. "I envy people who can sleep deeply," she said as if in mid-conversation. "This is a good time of night to try it." I stumbled to the bathroom and splashed water on my face. While I was happy to hear her voice, I was too exhausted from a long day of work to entertain the fantasy that she was calling me for romantic reasons. "Why do I have a feeling this is not a social call?" "How do you feel about breaking and entering?" "Do I want to know?" I said, finding the cleanest pair of jeans I owned. As it was when Bella was in professor mode, you could expect a call from her at any hour of the day with a new lead or breakthrough (amazing how many tiny discoveries have to be made before a true eureka hits). She had received a call. Another spider-loving compadre had observed a black widow virgin in his area. It would be the third known in existence, but unlike Bella's black widows, his lived in the wild. He had heard of her work and faxed her his findings earlier in the day. "Dr. Henry. I met him at a conference once. A short fellow with an unfortunate lisp, poor man. He's recorded similar observations as we have about Leah and Emily, but for the one difference." I yawned. "What's that?" "The vastly diverse habitats between our specimens. I need to check his images against mine. I need access to the electron microscope on campus." "Right now?" "No time like the present. Besides, I don't want to go through Vanderlay for the key. He's liable to make me wait days, the boar." "I suppose if I don't go, you'll find another way." "I don't want to wake Angela." "I'm honored." I located my keys and checked my wallet. "Bring bail money," I said. "We won't need it. I'll take care of you," she responded before she could take it back. Maybe it was the timing of the call, in the middle of the night like it held promise for something more, or maybe it was her teasing, but it made me feel good, bold. "Remains to be seen. I'll be there in half-an-hour." I met her on her porch as she was locking up. Bacon whined behind the door. "I'll be back, scaredy cat." She wore a baggy sweatshirt emblazoned with Chief Osceola over a pair of black yoga pants. "You pass for a student in that," I said, not hiding my approval. "We're going to campus during off hours, I better look like I belong there." The sweater barely covered her ass. She cleared her throat, gaining my attention. I watched her swallow like she was suddenly unsure of her bright idea to sneak away with me in the middle of the night. Before I could make our situation any more awkward, I pointed to the book bag at her side. "What's in there?" "Tools to hide the body," she said, recovering with her standard cheekiness. She slung the backpack over a shoulder and skipped down the steps as if eager to treat our late-night rendezvous like any other outing. "Actually, they're just slides. We should get a move on." "Consider the subject dropped." We parked two blocks away from the science building. I could say that it was a Mission Impossible, hearts racing type of break-in but it was a science lab, not Fort Knox. The janitorial shift worked late at night, but they had left hours ago. Campus security, on the other hand, circled the grounds all night. I was her lookout. The fewer questions to answer, the better. We accessed the building with her faculty key card. The real trick was breaking into Vanderlay's office and finding his key to the lab with the electron microscope. Not a challenge given how efficiently Bella picked the lock to his office with a hairpin, like a professional cat burglar. (Later, she would confess it was a simple matter of an Internet search.) We found the key glinting in the dark on a stack of fly-fishing magazines like a tiny beacon. The microscope, white and shaped like a small silo, towered five feet above the desk on which it sat. Bella powered it on, then slid the images out of her backpack and placed one under the lens. "This imaging focuses in on everything," she said. "What are you looking for?" "Hair. Chemosensitive hairs, to be exact. There has to be a disparity between Leah and the specimen in Guatemala." "Guatemala?" It hadn't occurred to me the third black widow would come from so far away. "Hmmhmm. That's where this little one is from." She had already tuned me out, distracted by the images on the screen. She magnified on different parts of the spider's body while muttering her own brand of humor. "Come out, come out with your tarsi up." I wandered among the rows of specimens. I tapped on a glass enclosure filled with busy ants. It looked like a kid's first ant farm. The label listed the name of the study and its owner, 'Vanderlay'. What would happen if I let them free to scatter outside? She hummed. "Have you ever thought about releasing Leah?" "Why would I want to do that?" "Instead of studying her in captivity, you let her out, see if her mate comes after her. Open up the dating pool." "I won't risk something happening to her again. Have you forgotten I had to save her from the clutches of a developer in Louisiana?" The soft whirr of the microscope gave way to the sound of a printer starting up. Bella was loading paper into the tray. "Besides, it might not be necessary." She called me over. On the screen, we viewed the underside of the Guatemalan black widow. The hairs on its body magnified to the point of large spikes. "What am I looking at?" "Evidence that this creature once released pheromones onto her web, you can tell by the way the hair near her spinneret leans sideways. Leah and Emily, on the other hand, have shown no indication of ever doing this. They're not releasing pheromones at all." She rubbed her temples with her fingers. "Too many questions," she said. "But, still, very exciting. I have to call my colleague and discuss. This is, this is just wonderful, Mr. Cullen. Let me print this out and we'll be on our way." I poked my head into the hallway. It was quiet but for the machines behind me. Then I heard footfalls squeak across the corridor. A flashlight shined on the wall in front of me. I backed inside and turned off the lights, locking us in. "Someone's coming. Shut it off." "I'm almost done," she said, alarmed. Working from the glow of the monitor, she turned off the microscope and printer, snatching the last image from its tray and shoving it into her bag. The air went silent. We waited for the footsteps to pass, our backs pressed beside the door. Not ten seconds passed, but it felt like minutes. "I thought you said no one was going to be here," I whispered. "There's some valuable research being conducted in this building. Maybe they've added extra security." She shrugged. We waited until we heard a steel door groan shut at the end of the hallway leading into the next wing. I threaded my fingers with hers and tugged her to me. I opened the door, checked the coast was clear, and sprinted to a side exit at the opposite end of the building. Outside, we hit a sheet of rain. "These can't get wet," she said, clutching her backpack. I grabbed it and stuffed it under my jacket. "What are you doing?" I didn't answer. I turned around and motioned for her to hop on. She hesitated for a second, but eventually pulled the hood of her sweatshirt over her head, and leapt on my back. I ran across the lawn carrying Bella, one hand under her knees and the other protecting her treasured research. I maneuvered around puddles, guided by the orange glow of the street lamps. The rain came down like needles. She gripped me tighter. We laughed all the way to the car. Back at her place, we changed into dry clothes. Ever since she allowed me an office, I kept a modest wardrobe in her home for moments between the gym and her place. I had made myself comfortable in sweats and a t-shirt while we brainstormed in her home lab. It was where she kept Leah and Emily. They flickered around in an empty plastic container once used for packs of Twizzlers. A pocket-sized camera mounted on one corner recorded their movements 24/7, tracking all of their suitors' failed mating attempts. It was three o'clock in the morning and I sat on a couch, struggling to keep my eyes open while she paced, theorizing out loud, in a sort of jazzy stream-of-consciousness. It was impressive how her mind worked, precise and nimble, focused, the very opposite of my state. I was warm, and comfortable, and too tired to contribute anything of value. I closed my eyes, just for a second, I told myself. I snuggled into the couch and trailed off. I woke up to a rooster crowing from over the fields. A quilt blanket covered me. Bella sat in her chair, watching me with a curious expression that dissolved once I roused. In its place was a pleasantly neutral face. In her hand, she held a steaming mug of coffee. It read, "Arachnologists do it better." She handed it to me. "Hi, sleepy head." I croaked out a good morning. "What time is it?" "Sorry I passed out on you." "You apologize too much. I'm the one who's sorry for forcing you out of bed and putting you in danger." "We weren't in danger," I said. I sent a prayer to the coffee gods for the headiness that followed the first sip of caffeine. "Did you call your contact in Guatemala?" She clinked my cup with hers. A spark of excitement lit her up from within. "He thinks the answer is in their silk. I told him I checked, but given what we've seen, I have no option but to listen to him." She slouched, suddenly moving between enthusiasm and self-doubt without so much as taking a breath. "Maybe my approach was off." She went on about their conversation, but I stopped listening. The room was warm and there we were, newly wakened, and sipping coffee in loungewear – for Bella, the ubiquitous black skirt and an untucked t-shirt while barefoot was loungewear. I couldn't help notice the intimacy of the moment, in large part to the sly presence of my morning wood. "Why are you looking at me like that?" "You're radiant when you get like this," I said. We spent a few minutes in silence, then it hit me. "When do you leave for Guatemala?" I asked, masking a crushing disappointment that threatened to make me reckless. It was impossible to miss the regret on her face and I knew. I put down my cup. We had reached the end of our dallying. "It won't be for a while yet. I have my own research here." Her chest rose and fell under her thin white shirt. She swallowed. "I will miss you." The looming deadline of her exit from my life forced the issue. The time for euphemisms was over. "I couldn't have done last night without you," she said softly. I was tired of waiting for the right time, of letting nature take its course. Nature didn't determine my next move, I did. I pulled her onto my lap and she gave no objections. "Bella. " She melted the like end of a sigh. A kiss on my bicep, and the sound of her giving in, she said in a rush of emotion I recognized as resigned lust. "I want you. I'm tired of staying away from you." Without preamble, she kissed me with the same vigor as the previous time. I returned her fervor, basking in the Bella assault plundering my senses. She smelled so good, like cookies and sunshine; I never wanted to let go. She tugged at my shirt, signaling where she wanted to take this outpouring of desire. I wanted to. God, did I want to. My brain threatened to shut off and float on, but the idea of a repeat performance of the other night stopped me. I couldn't rush it again. I held back. Bella reacted to my cold feet. "You don't want to," she said, in an almost-question, her face registering confusion and the beginnings of embarrassment. I shook my head. "Feel this." I placed her hand right where my blood rushed. Her fingers molded around me, squeezing. I sucked in a breath. I put my forehead to hers. I was not going to screw this up. "I don't know what I'm doing," I admitted. "It feels to me like you do, so very much." She surrounded my face with her hands. "It's been a long time for me, too," she assured. "Don't look so astonished," she said, misinterpreting. "What's the saying? It's like riding a bicycle." "No, you don't understand. I'm a virgin." I sighed. A bucket of ice water over her head would have had the same sobering effect. "A what? But why? How is it possible? Is it by choice?" I nodded, imaging how many more questions ricocheted in that head of hers. "The other night – " "I came as fast as I did because I'd never been with a woman before. Not like that. Not like this," I said, my body fully aware of her bottom squirming on my lap. "When you move like that." I groaned. "It never occurred to me. I thought it was your youthful exuberance. Maybe even a little zeal about the older woman thing." "That goes without saying." "Why didn't you tell me?" "Because I'm a coward, embarrassed. Because of this right here, you, freaking out." "No, I'm not." "You're acting like I just stepped on a spider." She regarded me with a new curiosity. "I guess I'm shocked. I was certain an attractive guy like you would have." She wiggled her bum. "Too good," I warned. "Never? Not even touching?" Her palm trailed my chest and lower, pausing at the waistband. "Second base, but it was a fake boob. Doesn't count." "How is it possible?" She was showing the sort of interest in me as she did when faced with a new scientific question. "I'm sorry I misunderstood. You seem to know what you're doing sometimes, and I've seen how women look at you." "You thought my bed was a revolving door." "Not revolving." I read her like a book. Her mind worked a mile a minute, she wondered what this meant, what the implications were if she indulged. Behind the sparkling eyes raking over me, she warred with herself. Dare she? I didn't think I could get more turned on by her obvious appreciation of me. "And you want me to be your first?" she said. I nodded. She paled. "What's wrong? Tell me, I'm dying here." "This…it's a big deal for most people," she responded, haltingly. And here was the rub. I was on delicate ground. If I confessed my heart to her, she would panic, but I couldn't play it off, either. "Sex isn't casual with me, no." I kissed her fingers, and silently wished for my personal philosophy not to cockblock me after having come this far. I had never doubted that if I were faced with the opportunity to have sex with Bella, I would go through with it, regardless of how she felt about me. I loved her, but she couldn't, or wouldn't say the same. Not yet. And I was okay with that. I had daydreams, but I was a realist. I would wait for her to catch up emotionally. Nonetheless, I wanted her to be around in the morning. "Is it casual for you?" She faced me then and said in a rush, "No, of course not. I just hadn't had time to think about it. It's surprising, flattering even, and you're so sweet. I don't want to hurt you." "B, I'm not talking about making declarations here," I assured her. "I have a beautiful woman on my lap who wants to have sex with me and for once I want to go through with it." "I just don't know why you'd want me, of all people, to be your first." A landmine of a statement spoken with deceptive calmness. Was she fishing? I wasn't positive, but she was not ready, and I was not prepared to deliver an answer as long as the story of my life. I had one chance to prove to her I could make it worth her while. I fanned the residual embers from our earlier fire, and dared to kiss her from shoulder to temple. "Because this feels right," I whispered. "Because I can't get you out of my head," I said before kissing her. "Because you drive me insane, Bella." I traced her lips with my lips and became overwhelmed by the contrast between her feminine form and my awkward maleness. When her eyes reflected trust, and I knew we'd become inevitable, I was moved by a fresh batch of nerves. "This will change everything," she said, without apprehension. She had made up her mind. "I hope so." I spread my arms over the back of the couch to disguise my ever-growing anxiety. "I'm all yours. Teach me. I'm a blank slate." Whether she knew it or not, giving it up to her thrilled and terrified me. I was outwardly collected, but I was not succeeding in disguising my nervousness. She saw through me then, and as if a switch had been flipped, Bella stood and regarded me, spread out on her couch, for all the world like a virgin sacrifice. A calm descended, the sort that came after a decision had been made and fully accepted, anticipated even. "I'm going to hell," she muttered as if she was planning on enjoying it. "If we're going to do this," she said, resolved, "we're going to do this right." I shuddered, my heart banging away like the little drummer boy. She guided me through the house, past the living room where her terrariums swayed with life, and up the stairs into her room. A window was open. The curtains were white and gauzy. Outside, the pink light shone on the surface of the fields like the world had been lit on fire. The door shut behind me. Bella leaned against it, hands behind her back. The position might have suggested the demureness of someone younger, less experienced, but such was not the case, not with that look. She was in charge, she made it clear while sizing me up. It was sexy and arousing. "Take off my shirt," she ordered. The tremble in her voice was comforting as it betrayed her anticipation. I reached for the hem, "Slowly." I imagine every instruction I obeyed was executed with the pious devotion of a monk, extra careful, with shaking hands, and eager to please. This did not bother me, did not make me less of a man. I was at her mercy, and I knew this. At any rate, the pleasure she introduced me to, starting with the unfettered access to her breasts, made up for my self-consciousness. "The clasp is on the front." I released them and marveled how they spilled, heavy, onto my palms. "These are glorious." I watched Bella's face, one cheek plastered to the door, her bottom lip between her teeth. Her breathing, ragged. I flicked her nipple, off and on, testing, testing. "You like this," I said, in part as a question and observation. The words left my throat with a low tremble as if it echoed from inside a dark room. She sucked in air before replying. "I do. They're very sensitive." "They feel like dough. I don't mean lumpy, firm, actually." I traced the constellation of stars bumping into her nipple. "I've dreamt about this birthmark you have here." "I could have a third nipple and you'd like it." "I would if it's on you." She chuckled at my rapt concentration and stupid rambling. "You're reacting to a male's evolutionary fascination with the mammary glands." "Stop. Can we put the professor away and bring back Bella?" "Fine. But, I can't help I view the world in its – " she gasped. So that's what pushing them together looks like. "Natural state, whether human or animal – " "You're still doing it," I chided, mock irritated. I was oddly fascinated by her reaction to my fondling. A flush spread from chest to shoulders along with a cover of goosebumps. Her tiny gulps of air, her bemusing chatter. "It's been so long." She stretched out the last word as I handled her breasts like a balance scale, up, down. I rolled them under my palm, so smooth. "You should know," she continued with some effort, "I'm on the pill. Oh, that's good. You're not listening, are you?" I nodded. She rolled her eyes and felt me lean in. "Can I kiss you now?" We found our footing then. Not knowing what I was doing, but going for broke, I grasped and squeezed her hips while I kissed her, which was a great way to stop talking because words were caught in my throat like a fish in a net. I listened. I was good at that. I was born for it. She was teaching me a new language, and I catalogued every groan that shook out of her, every whimper that eked past her lips. By the time our clothes had come off – a trick she managed by distracting me with lips and fingertips skirting across my flesh – we were in bed. She didn't allow me time to worry about my newbie fumbles. Her strategy was to rip off the Band-Aid, so to speak, in order to clear the air of my awkwardness. She pushed me on to my back with the surety of a vixen. After a study of what I had to offer, of what had grown purple with anticipation, Bella stalked up my body, and ever so slowly, a shit-eating grin spread across her face. "I believe I just hit the jackpot, Mr. Cullen." She let me know I was in for it. She placed my hands on her hips and straddled her bicycle. "How's that?" I choked out, no longer nervous, but swimming in keen anticipation. The dampness between her legs slid slick on my dick. If we didn't hurry, I was going to have a heart attack. "I am going to love being your teacher." She ground down on me and gasped. "This is going to be quick. Try to hold out, but don't make it a challenge." She positioned me at her entrance. My fingers were nailed to the mattress, and my stomach was taut. "Breathe, Edward." I did as she said and two hip-jacking thrusts later, I was no longer a virgin. What can I say? The mantra is this is it, this is it, this is it, this is it, a warm volcanic shudder overwhelms you, shoots you into a limitless stratosphere where there are stars and a few seconds of black out. It is impossible to romanticize a virgin's first time, to make it loftier than it is, especially if you're a healthy, virile dude pent up with more sexual energy than a nuclear power plant. And even if it can be described, it's only unconditionally meaningful to the couple sharing it. It arrives with awkwardness and the probability of future emotional pain. After all, at no time before in your life are you at your most vulnerable, lying there, naked and shivering in her arms. Safe and happy. Not everyone experiences that level of connection their first time. For most guys, not all, the first time is a throwaway. Unless you're me. I opened my eyes and there she was smiling down at me with a look of awe and expectancy. I watched Bella's face dissolve in pleasure like she was sinking into a warm, sudsy bath as my once turgid member grew soft inside of her. I was over the moon. I hooted and hollered and startled her when I flipped us over and rained kisses all over her in gratitude and love and all the things I could not articulate at that very moment. She laughed, snorted at my antics, at my dumb apologies for making it all about me. She shushed me, it didn't matter to her, I knew. This one was for me, she said tenderly, but I made a silent promise I would re-pay her for as long as she allowed me in her bed. "What are you doing the rest of the day?" she asked, with a playfulness I would only witness in the bedroom. I thought about her question, how it always led to the best sort of trouble. "Does it matter?" I lifted her arms above her head, and rested on my palms as I enjoyed the view. She was like a buffet and I was overwhelmed as to where to begin. I swiveled my hips, suddenly conscious of my greedy John Thomas acting like a heat-seeking missile over his Lady Jane. "I'm sorry, B." It hadn't been a minute and I was hard again. "Is it always going to be like this?" She moaned. "Unfortunately, it won't. But that's a long time coming." She writhed, scooting closer to it. "I suggest a comprehensive study of core concepts." I hissed when delicate teeth grazed my nipple. I had no idea. "It just so happens, my schedule is wide open," she rambled as she kissed her way further down. Six weeks of waiting. We didn't last one. Author's note: This is where I apologize for the uber-tardy chapter, isn't it? Hangs head in shame I could tell you it was work, life, blah blah blah, but every explanation will sound like an excuse. The good news is that I will post again in three weeks, so there's that, yes? In all seriousness, thanks for coming back and reading, it means a lot to me. A huge thank you to the ladies who spot my typos, crazy word arrangements, inconsistencies, and the never-ending flaws, lol. Thanks WriteOnTime, Faireyfan, and Notsoimmortal for the kick in the pants. You guys are awesome.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6928840/13/SOUL	<urn:uuid:800d2bb2-0762-49df-b758-71608ad2698f>	en	0.987857	0.026718
package Pod::Snippets; use warnings; use strict; =head1 NAME Pod::Snippets - Extract and reformat snippets of POD so as to use them in a unit test (or other Perl code) =head1 VERSION Version 0.14 =cut use vars qw($VERSION); $VERSION = '0.14'; =head1 SYNOPSIS =for metatests "synopsis test script" begin use Pod::Snippets; my $snips = load Pod::Snippets($file_or_handle, -markup => "test"); my $code_snippet = $snips->named("synopsis")->as_code; # ... Maybe borg $code_snippet with regexes or something... my $result = eval $code_snippet; die $@ if $@; like($result->what_happen(), qr/bomb/); =for metatests "synopsis test script" end The Perl code that we want to extract snippets from might look like this: =for metatests "synopsis POD" begin package Zero::Wing; =head1 NAME Zero::Wing - For great justice! =head1 SYNOPSIS =for test "synopsis" begin use Zero::Wing; my $capitain = Zero::Wing->capitain; =for test "synopsis" end =cut # ... 1; =for metatests "synopsis POD" end =head1 DESCRIPTION This class is a very simple extension of L that extracts POD snippets from Perl code, and pretty-prints it so as to make it useable from other Perl code. As demonstrated above, B is immediately useful to test-driven-development nutcases who want to put every single line of Perl code under test, including code that is in the POD (typically a SYNOPSIS section). There are other uses, such as storing a piece of information that is both human- and machine-readable (eg an XML schema) simultaneously as documentation and code. =head2 Using Pod::Snippets for unit testing The L demonstrates how to use B to grab a piece of POD and execute it with L. This can readily be done using your usual unit testing methodology, without too much ajusting if any. This approach has some advantages over other code-in-POD devices such as L and L: =over =item * There is no preprocessing step involved, hence no temp files and no loss of hair in the debugger due to line renumbering. =item * Speaking of which, L prepends an appropriate C<#line> if possible, so you can single-step through your POD (yow!). =back The Pod-Snippets CPAN distribution consists of a single Perl file, and has no dependencies besides what comes with a standard Perl 5.8.x. It is therefore easy to embed into your own module so that your users won't need to install B by themselves before running your test suite. All that remains to do is to select the right options to pass to L as part of an appropriately named wrapper function in your test library. =head2 Snippet Syntax B only deals with verbatim portions of the POD (that is, as per L, paragraphs that start with whitespace at the right) and custom markup starting with C<=for test>, C<=begin test> or C<=end test>; it discards the rest (block text, actual Perl code, character markup such as BEE, =head's and so on). The keyword "test" in C<=for test> and C<=begin test> can be replaced with whatever one wants, using the C<-markup> argument to L. Actually the default value is not even "test"; nonetheless let's assume you are using "test" yourself for the remainder of this discussion. The following metadata markup is recognized: =over =item B<=for test ignore> Starts ignoring all POD whatsoever. Verbatim portions of the POD are no longer stashed by B until remanded by a subsequent C<=for test>. =item B<=for test> Cancels the effect of an ongoing C<=for test ignore> directive. =item B<=for test "foo" begin> =item B<=for test "foo" end> These signal the start and end of a I POD snippet, that can later be fetched by name using L. Unless countermanded by appropriate parser options (see L), named POD snippets can nest freely (even badly). =item B<=begin test> =item B<=end test> The POD between these markers will be seen by B, but not by other POD formatters. Otherwise has no effect on the naming or ignoring of snippets; in particular, if the contents of the section is not in POD verbatim style, it still gets ignored. =item B<=begin test "foo"> =item B<=end test "foo"> These have the exact same effect as C<=for test "foo" begin> and C<=for test "foo" end>, except that other POD formatters will not see the contents of the block. =back =head1 CONSTRUCTORS =head2 load ($source, -opt1 => $val1, ...) Parses the POD from $source and returns an object of class B that holds the snippets found therein. $source may be the name of a file, a file descriptor (glob reference) or any object that has a I method. Available named options are: =over =item B<< -filename => $filename >> The value to set for L, that is, the name of the file to use for C<#line> lines in L. The default behavior is to use the filename passed as the $source argument, or if it was not a filename, use the string "pod snippet" instead. =item B<< -line => $line >> The line number to start counting lines from, eg in case the $source got a few lines chopped off it before being passed to I. Default is 1. =item B<< -markup => $name >> The markup (aka "format name" in L) to use as the first token after C<=for>, C<=begin> or C<=end> to indicate that the directive is to be processed by B (see L. Default is "Pod::Snippets". =item B<< -report_errors => $sub >> Invokes $sub like so to deal with warnings and errors: $sub->($severity, $text, $file, $line); where $severity is either "WARNING" or "ERROR". By default the standard Perl L is used. Regardless of the number of errors, the constructor tries to load the whole file; see below. =item B<< -named_snippets => "warn_impure" >> Raises an error upon encountering this kind of construct: =for metatests "named_snippets impure error" begin =for test "foobar" begin my $foobar = foobar(); =head1 And now something completely different... =for test "foobar" end =for metatests "named_snippets impure error" end In other words, only verbatim blocks may intervene between the B<=for test "foobar" begin> and B<=for test "foobar" end> markups. =item B<< -named_snippets => "warn_multiple" >> Raises a warning upon encountering this kind of construct: =for metatests "named_snippets multiple error" begin =for test "foobar" begin my $foobar = foobar(); =for test "foobar" end =for test "foobar" begin $foobar->quux_some_more(); =for test "foobar" end =for metatests "named_snippets multiple error" end =item B<< -named_snippets => "warn_overlap" >> Raises a warning if named snippets overlap in any way. =item B<< -named_snippets => "warn_bad_pairing" >> Raises a warning if opening and closing markup for named snippets is improperly paired (eg opening or closing twice, or forgetting to close before the end of the file). =item B<< -named_snippets => "error_impure" >> =item B<< -named_snippets => "error_multiple" >> =item B<< -named_snippets => "error_overlap" >> =item B<< -named_snippets => "error_bad_pairing" >> Same as the C counterparts above, but cause errors instead of warnings. =item B<< -named_snippets => "ignore_impure" >> =item B<< -named_snippets => "ignore_multiple" >> =item B<< -named_snippets => "ignore_overlap" >> =item B<< -named_snippets => "ignore_bad_pairing" >> Ignores the corresponding dubious constructs described above. The default behavior is C<< -named_snippets => "warn_bad_pairing" >> and ignore the rest. =item B<< -named_snippets => "strict" >> Equivalent to C<< (-named_snippets => "error_overlap", -named_snippets => "error_impure", -named_snippets => "error_multiple", -named_snippets => "error_bad_pairing") >>. =back Note that the correctness of the POD to be parsed is a prerequisite; in other words, I won't touch the error management knobs of the underlying L object. Also, note that the parser strictness options such as B<-named_snippets> have no effect on the semantics; they merely alter its response (ignore, warning or error) to the aforementioned dubious constructs. In any case, the parser will soldier on until the end of the file regardless of the number of errors seen; however, it will disallow further processing of the snippets if there were any errors (see L). =cut sub load { my ($class, $source, @opts) = @_; my $self = bless {}, $class; $self->{start_line} = 1; $self->{filename} = "$source" unless (ref($source) eq "GLOB" \|\| eval { $source->can("getline") }); undef $@; # Grind the syntactic sugar to dust: my %opts = (-line => 1, -filename => $self->filename, -report_errors => sub { my ($severity, $text, $file, $line) = @_; warn <<"MESSAGE"; $severity: $text in $file line $line MESSAGE }, -markup => "Pod::Snippets", -bad_pairing => "warning"); while(my ($k, $v) = splice @opts, 0, 2) { if ($k eq "-named_snippets") { if ($v eq "strict") { $opts{"-$_"} = "error" foreach (qw(overlap impure multiple bad_pairing)); } elsif ($v =~ m\|^ignore_(.)\|) { $opts{"-$1"} = "ignore"; } elsif ($v =~ m\|^error_(.)\|) { $opts{"-$1"} = "error"; } elsif ($v =~ m\|^warn(ing)?_(.)\|) { $opts{"-$2"} = "warning"; } } elsif ($k eq "-line") { $self->{start_line} = $v; $opts{$k} = $v; } else { $opts{$k} = $v; } } # Run the parser: my $parser = "${class}::_Parser"->new_for_pod_snippets(%opts); if ($self->{filename}) { $parser->parse_from_file($self->{filename}, undef); } else { $parser->parse_from_filehandle($source, undef); } $parser->finalize_pod_snippets(); # Extract the relevant bits from it: $self->{unmerged_snippets} = $parser->pod_snippets; $self->{warnings} = $parser->pod_snippets_warnings; $self->{errors} = $parser->pod_snippets_errors; return $self; } =head2 parse ($string, -opt1 => $val1, ...) Same as L, but works from a Perl string instead of a file descriptor. The named options are the same as in I, but consider using C<< -filename >> as I is in no position to guess it. =cut sub parse { my ($class, $string, @args) = @_; return $class->load(Pod::Snippets::LineFeeder->new($string), @args); package Pod::Snippets::LineFeeder; sub new { my ($class, $string) = @_; my $nl = $/; # Foils smarter-than-thou regex parser return bless { lines => [ $string =~ m{(.(?:$nl\|$))}g ] }; } sub getline { shift @{shift->{lines}} } } =head1 ACCESSORS =head2 filename () Returns the name of the file to use for C<#line> lines in L. The default behavior is to use the filename passed as the $source argument, or if it was not a filename, use the string "pod snippet" instead. =cut sub filename { shift->{filename} \|\| "pod snippet" } =head2 warnings () Returns the number of warnings that occured during the parsing of the POD. =head2 errors () Returns the number of errors that occured during the parsing of the POD. If that number is non-zero, then all accessors described below will throw an exception instead of performing. =cut sub warnings { shift->{warnings} } sub errors { shift->{errors} } =head2 as_data () Returns the snippets in "data" format: that is, the return value is ragged to the left by suppressing a constant number of space characters at the beginning of each snippet. (If tabs are present in the POD, they are treated as being of infinite length; that is, the ragging algorithm does not eat them or replace them with spaces.) A snippet is defined as a series of subsequent verbatim POD paragraphs with only B markup, if anything, intervening in between. That is, I, given the following POD in input: =for metatests "as_data multiple blocks input" begin my $a = new The::Brain; =begin test # Just kidding. We can't do that, it's too dangerous. $a = new Pinky; =end test =for test ignore system("/sbin/reboot"); and all of a sudden, we have: =for test if ($a->has_enough_cookies()) { $a->conquer_world(); } =for metatests "as_data multiple blocks input" end would return (in list context) =for metatests "as_data multiple blocks return" begin (<<'FIRST_SNIPPET', <<'SECOND_SNIPPET'); my $a = new The::Brain; # Just kidding. We can't do that, it's too dangerous. $a = new Pinky; FIRST_SNIPPET if ($a->has_enough_cookies()) { $a->conquer_world(); } SECOND_SNIPPET =for metatests "as_data multiple blocks return" end Notice how the indentation is respected snippet-by-snippet; also, notice that the FIRST_SNIPPET has been padded with an appropriate number of carriage returns to replace the B markup, so that the return value is line-synchronized with the original POD. However, leading and trailing whitespace is trimmed, leaving only strings that starts with a nonblank line and end with a single newline. In scalar context, returns the blocks joined with a single newline character ("\n"), thus resulting in a single piece of text where the blocks are joined by exactly one empty line (and which as a whole is no longer line-synchronized with the source code, of course). =cut sub as_data { my ($self) = @_; $self->_block_access_if_errors(); my @retval = map { # This may be a pedestrian and sub-optimal way of doing the # ragging, but it sure is concise: until (m/^\S/m) { s/^ //gm or last; }; "$_"; } ($self->_merged_snippets); return wantarray ? @retval : join("\n", @retval); } =head2 as_code () Returns the snippets formatted as code, that is, like L, except that each block is prepended with an appropriate C<#line> statement that Perl can interpret to renumber lines. For instance, these statements would cause Perl to Do The Right Thing if one compiles the snippets as code with L and then runs it under the Perl debugger. =cut sub as_code { my ($self) = @_; $self->_block_access_if_errors(); my @retval = $self->as_data; foreach my $i (0..$#retval) { my $file = $self->filename; my $line = ($self->_merged_snippets)[$i]->line() + $self->{start_line} - 1; $retval[$i] = <<"LINE_MARKUP" . $retval[$i]; #line $line "$file" LINE_MARKUP } return wantarray ? @retval : join("\n", @retval); } =head2 named ($name) Returns a clone of this B object, except that it only knows about the snippet (or snippets) that are named $name. In the most lax settings for the parser, this means: any and all snippets where an C<=for test "$name" begin> (or C<=begin test "$name">) had been open, but not yet closed with C<=for test "$name" end> (or C<=end test "$name">). Returns undef if no snippet named $name was seen at all. =cut sub named { my ($self, $name) = @_; $self->_block_access_if_errors(); my @snippets_with_this_name = grep { !defined($_) \|\| $_->names_set->{$name} } (@{$self->{unmerged_snippets}}); return if ! grep { defined } @snippets_with_this_name; return bless { unmerged_snippets => \@snippets_with_this_name, map { exists $self->{$_} ? ($_ => $self->{$_}) : () } (qw(warnings errors filename start_line) ) # Purposefully do not transfer other fields such as # ->{merged_snippets} }, ref($self); } =begin internals =head2 _block_access_if_errors () Throws an exception if L returns a nonzero value. Called by every read accessor except L and I. =cut sub _block_access_if_errors { die <<"MESSAGE" if shift->errors; Cannot fetch parse results from Pod::Snippets with errors. MESSAGE } =head2 _merged_snippets () Returns roughly the same thing as L in L, except that leading and trailing whitespace is trimmed (updating the line counters appropriately), names are discarded and snippets are merged together (with appropriate padding using $/) according to the semantics set forth in L. This method has a cache. =cut sub _merged_snippets { my ($self) = @_; $self->{merged_snippets} \|\|= do { my @snippets; foreach my $snip (@{$self->{unmerged_snippets}}) { if (! defined($snip)) { push @snippets, undef if defined $snippets[-1]; } elsif (! @snippets) { push @snippets, $snip; } elsif (! defined($snippets[-1])) { $snippets[-1] = $snip; } else { # The merger case. my $prevstartline = $snippets[-1]->line(); my $newlines_to_add = $snip->line - $prevstartline - _number_of_newlines_in($snippets[-1]); if ($newlines_to_add < 0) { my $filename = $self->filename(); warn <<"ASSERTION_FAILED" ; Pod::Snippets: problem counting newlines at $filename near line $prevstartline (trying to skip $newlines_to_add lines) Output will be desynchronized. ASSERTION_FAILED $newlines_to_add = 0; } $snippets[-1] = $snippets[-1] . $/ x $newlines_to_add . $snip; } } pop @snippets if ! defined $snippets[-1]; # Trim leading and trailing whitespace. foreach my $i (0..$#snippets) { my $text = "$snippets[$i]"; my $line = $snippets[$i]->line(); my $nl = $/; # Foils smarter-than-thou regex parser while($text =~ s\|^\s$nl\|\|) { $line++ }; # This is disturbingly asymetric. $text =~ s\|(^\s$nl)\Z\|\|m; $snippets[$i] = Pod::Snippets::_Snippet->new ($line, $text, $snippets[$i]->names_set); } \@snippets; }; return @{$self->{merged_snippets}}; } =head2 _number_of_newlines_in($string) This function (B a method) returns the number of times $/ is found in $string. =cut sub _number_of_newlines_in { my @occurences = shift =~ m\|($/)\|gs; return scalar @occurences; } =head1 Pod::Snippets::_Parser This class is a subclass to L, that builds appropriate state on behalf of a I object. =cut package Pod::Snippets::_Parser; use base "Pod::Parser"; =head2 new_for_pod_snippets (-opt1 => $val1, ...) An alternate constructor with a different syntax suited for calling from I. Available named options are: =over =item B<< -markup => $string >> =item B<< -report_errors => $sub >> =item B<< -filename => $filename >> =item B<< -line => $line >> Same as in L, except that all these options are mandatory and therefore caller should substitute appropriate default values if need be. =item B<< -impure => "ignore" >> =item B<< -impure => "warn" >> =item B<< -impure => "error" >> =item B<< -overlap => "ignore" >> and so on The parse flags to use for handling errors, properly decoded from the B<-named_snippets> named argument to L. =back =cut sub new_for_pod_snippets { my ($class, %opts) = @_; my $self = $class->new; while(my ($k, $v) = each %opts) { $k =~ s/^(-?)(.)$/$1pod_snippets_$2/; $self->{$k} = $v; } return $self; } =head2 finalize_pod_snippets () Called after parsing is done; must raise any and all errors that occur at the end of the file (eg snippets without a closing tag). =cut sub finalize_pod_snippets { my ($self) = @_; foreach my $snipname ($self->in_named_pod_snippet) { $self->maybe_raise_pod_snippets_bad_pairing($snipname); } } =head2 command () Overloaded so as to catch the I markup and keep state accordingly. =cut sub command { my ($self, $command, $paragraph, $line_num) = @_; $self->pod_snippets_source_line_number($line_num); $self->break_current_pod_snippet, return unless ($command =~ m/^(for\|begin\|end)/); $self->break_current_pod_snippet, return unless (my ($details) = $paragraph =~ m/\A\s$self->{-pod_snippets_markup}(.)$/m); # Accept "=begin test" and "=end test" and do nothing... if (! $details) { $self->ignoring_pod_snippets(0) if ($command eq "for"); return; } # ... But moan about "=begin test ignore". if ($command eq "for" && $details =~ m/\s+ignore\s$/) { $self->ignoring_pod_snippets(1); return; } if (my ($snipname, $subcommand) = $details =~ m/^ \s+ (?: "(.?)" ) \s* (begin\|end)?/x) { $command = $subcommand if ($subcommand && $command eq "for"); if ($command eq "begin") { $self->in_named_pod_snippet($snipname, 1); return; } elsif ($command eq "end") { $self->in_named_pod_snippet($snipname, 0); return; } } my $equals = "="; # Foils smarter-than-thou Pod::Checker. Sigh. $self->raise_pod_snippets_incident("warning", <<"MESSAGE"); Cannot interpret command, ignoring. $equals$command $paragraph MESSAGE } =head2 verbatim () Overloaded so as to catch and store the verbatim sections. =cut sub verbatim { my ($self, $paragraph, $line_num) = @_; $self->pod_snippets_source_line_number($line_num); return if $self->ignoring_pod_snippets; push(@{$self->{pod_snippets}}, Pod::Snippets::_Snippet->new($line_num, $paragraph, $self->pod_snippets_names())); } =head2 textblock () =head2 interior_sequence () These methods are overloaded so as discard the corresponding pieces of POD and to call L instead. =cut sub textblock { my ($self, $paragraph, $line_num) = @_; $self->pod_snippets_source_line_number($line_num); $self->break_current_pod_snippet; } sub interior_sequence { shift->break_current_pod_snippet } =head2 break_current_pod_snippet () Called by L, L and L whenever a piece of POD that is ignored by B is seen in the parse stream. Causes the parser to record the break, pursuant to the snippet aggregation feature set forth in L. =cut sub break_current_pod_snippet { my ($self) = @_; $self->maybe_raise_pod_snippets_impure() if $self->in_named_pod_snippet; push(@{$self->{pod_snippets}}, undef) unless (! defined $self->{pod_snippets}->[-1]); } =head2 pod_snippets_source_line_number () =head2 pod_snippets_source_line_number ($value) Gets or sets the line number that the parser reached, to be used in error messages (after offsetting it by the appropriate amount depending on the setting of the C<-line> named option to L). The setter form is to be called as soon as possible by parser callbacks L, L, L so as to keep in sync with the POD flow. =cut sub pod_snippets_source_line_number { my ($self, @value) = @_; $self->{pod_snippets_source_line_number} = $value[0] if @value; return $self->{pod_snippets_source_line_number}; } =head3 maybe_raise_pod_snippets_multiple ($name) =head3 maybe_raise_pod_snippets_overlap ($name) =head3 maybe_raise_pod_snippets_impure () =head3 maybe_raise_pod_snippets_bad_pairing ($name) Maybe passes an error of the respective class to the user-supplied C<< -report_errors >> sub (see L), if the warning and error settings so dictate (as described in the documentation for the C<< -named_snippets >> constructor argument). The $name argument is the name of the snippet that is in scope at the point of error. All these methods are implemented in terms of exactly one call to L. =cut sub maybe_raise_pod_snippets_multiple { my ($self, $name) = @_; $self->maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident ("multiple", <<"MESSAGE"); Snippet "$name" is defined multiple times. MESSAGE } sub maybe_raise_pod_snippets_overlap { my ($self, $name) = @_; $self->maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident ("overlap", <<"MESSAGE"); Snippet "$name" is defined multiple times. MESSAGE } sub maybe_raise_pod_snippets_impure { my ($self) = @_; my @names_in_scope = map { qq'"$_"' } ($self->in_named_pod_snippet); if (@names_in_scope > 1) { my $names_in_scope = join(", ", @names_in_scope); $self->maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident ("impure", <<"MESSAGE"); Snippets $names_in_scope are impure (ie they contain intervening non-verbatim POD) MESSAGE } else { $self->maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident ("impure", <<"MESSAGE"); Snippet $names_in_scope[0] is impure (ie it contains intervening non-verbatim POD) MESSAGE } } sub maybe_raise_pod_snippets_bad_pairing { my ($self, $name) = @_; $self->maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident ("bad_pairing", <<"MESSAGE"); Snippet "$name" has mismatched or missing opening and closing markers. MESSAGE } =head3 maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident ($errclass, $message) Calls L with $message if appropriate given the parser warning and error level settings for C<$errclass> (one of "impure", "overlap", "bad_pairing" or "multiple"). See the C<-named_snippets> argument to L for details. =cut sub maybe_raise_named_pod_snippets_incident { my ($self, $errclass, $message) = @_; my $severity = $self->{"-pod_snippets_$errclass"}; if ((! defined $severity) \|\| ($severity eq "ignore")) { return; } else { $self->raise_pod_snippets_incident($severity, $message); } } =head2 Fancy accessors Yes, we want them even in a totally private class: they are so helpful in making the code easier to understand, debug and refactor. =head3 in_named_pod_snippet ($name, $boolean) Tells the parser state machine that we are entering ($boolean true) or leaving ($boolean false) a POD snippet named $name. This operation can cause L and/or L to be invoked as a side effect. =head3 in_named_pod_snippet ($name) Returns true iff the parser is currently in the middle of a POD snippet named $name. =head3 in_named_pod_snippet () Returns true iff the parser is currently in the middle of any named POD snippet, regardless of the name. (In array context, returns the list of all snippet names the parser is in). =cut sub in_named_pod_snippet { my ($self, @args) = @_; $self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope} \|\|= {}; if (@args >= 2) { my ($snipname, $bool) = @args; if ($bool) { # Entering $self->maybe_raise_pod_snippets_multiple($snipname) if exists $self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope}->{$snipname}; $self->maybe_raise_pod_snippets_overlap($snipname) if $self->in_named_pod_snippet; $self->maybe_raise_pod_snippets_bad_pairing($snipname) if $self->in_named_pod_snippet($snipname); $self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope}->{$snipname} = 1; } else { # Leaving $self->maybe_raise_pod_snippets_bad_pairing($snipname) if ! $self->in_named_pod_snippet($snipname); $self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope}->{$snipname} = 0; } } elsif (@args == 1) { return !!$self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope}->{$args[0]}; } else { return grep { $self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope}->{$_} } (keys %{$self->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope}}); } } =head3 pod_snippets_names () Returns a reference to a newly-constructed (thus unshared) hash whose keys are the POD snippet names that have been seen by the parser so far, and the values are true iff we are currently inside a POD snippet of the corresponding name. =cut sub pod_snippets_names { return {%{shift->{pod_snippets_names_in_scope} \|\| {}}} } =head3 ignoring_pod_snippets () =head3 ignoring_pod_snippets ($value) Gets or sets the "ignoring snippets" flag in the parser state. =cut sub ignoring_pod_snippets { my ($self, @value) = @_; $self->{ignoring_pod_snippets} = $value[0] if @value; return $self->{ignoring_pod_snippets}; } =head3 pod_snippets () Returns the parsed snippets as a list that contains undef values and references to instances of L. The undef values indicate that some non-snippet block or markup was seen at that point, and that snippets should not be merged by L over such a boundary. =cut sub pod_snippets { shift->{pod_snippets} } =head3 pod_snippets_warnings () =head3 pod_snippets_errors () Returns the number of times L (resp. L) was called during the parsing of this Perl module. These do B account for warnings and/or errors due to malformed POD that may be emitted by L. =head3 raise_pod_snippets_incident ($kind, $message) Called whenever the parser issues a warning, resp. an error; calls the user-supplied C<< -report_errors >> sub (see L) or a default surrogate thereof. Also increments the relevant warning and error counters. $kind is either "warning" or "error" (in lowercase); $message is the message to print (I18N be screwed). =cut # And now for some awesome metaprogramming goodness. foreach my $property (qw(warnings errors)) { my $fieldname = "pod_snippets_$property"; my $accessor = sub { shift->{$fieldname} \|\| 0 }; no strict "refs"; *{$fieldname} = $accessor; } sub raise_pod_snippets_incident { my ($self, $incident, $message) = @_; $self->{-pod_snippets_report_errors}-> (uc($incident), $message, $self->{-pod_snippets_filename}, $self->pod_snippets_source_line_number + $self->{-pod_snippets_line} - 1); $self->{"pod_snippets_${incident}s"}++; } =head2 Pod::Snippets::_Snippet An instance of this class represents one snippet in the POD. Instances are immutable, and stringifiable for added goodness. =cut package Pod::Snippets::_Snippet; =head3 new ($lineno, $rawtext, $names_set) Creates and returns a B object. $lineno is the line number where the snippet starts in the original file. $rawtext is the text of the snippet without any formatting applied: there may be extraneous whitespace at the beginning and end, and the ragging is not performed. $names_set is a reference to a set (that is, a hash where only the boolean status of the values matter) of all snippet names that are in scope for this snippet. =cut sub new { my ($class, $lineno, $rawtext, $names_set) = @_; return bless { line => $lineno, text => $rawtext, names => $names_set, }, $class; } =head3 stringify () Returns the snippet text. This is also what happens when one evaluatess the snippet object as a string. =cut use overload '""' => "stringify"; sub stringify { shift->{text} } =head3 is_named ($name) Returns true iff $name is in scope at this snippet's text location. =cut sub is_named { !! shift->{names}->{shift()} } =head3 line () Returns this snippet's line number. =cut sub line { shift->{line} } =head3 append_text ($text) Computes and returns a new snippet that has extra $text appended at the end. This is also what happens when one uses the L operator on a snippet. =cut use overload '.' => "append_text"; sub append_text { my ($self, $text) = @_; return bless { text => "$self->{text}" . "$text", map { ($_ => $self->{$_}) } (qw(line names)), }, ref($self); } =head3 names_set () Returns the $names_set parameter to L. =cut sub names_set { shift->{names} } =end internals =head1 SEE ALSO L =head1 AUTHOR Dominique QUATRAVAUX, C<< >> =head1 BUGS Please report any bugs or feature requests to C, or through the web interface at L. I will be notified, and then you'll automatically be notified of progress on your bug as I make changes. =head1 ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS Yanick Champoux is the author of L which grandfathers this module. =head1 COPYRIGHT & LICENSE Copyright 2007 Dominique QUATRAVAUX, all rights reserved. This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the same terms as Perl itself. =cut 1; # End of Pod::Snippets	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/DOMQ/Pod-Snippets-0.14/lib/Pod/Snippets.pm	<urn:uuid:c516b090-ab58-4743-8610-5792222a38c0>	en	0.746412	0.71136
List of Community characters From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Cast members of Community The cast of Community Seasons 1–2. Third row, in the back, from left to right: Chevy Chase as Pierce Hawthorne, John Oliver as Ian Duncan, Donald Glover as Troy Barnes, and Ken Jeong as Ben Chang. Second row, sitting at table, left to right: Alison Brie as Annie Edison, Yvette Nicole Brown as Shirley Bennett, and Danny Pudi as Abed Nadir. (Front row, left to right) Joel McHale as Jeff Winger, and Gillian Jacobs as Britta Perry. The cast of Community Season 5. This season introduced Jonathan Banks as Buzz Hickey, the return of John Oliver as Ian Duncan, and included the departure of Chevy Chase as Pierce Hawthorne (Not pictured), and Donald Glover as Troy Barnes The series also features recurring characters, typically fellow students or teachers at Greendale. Main characters[edit] Jeff Winger[edit] Jeffrey "Jeff" Tobias Winger (Joel McHale), is a snarky, glib ex-lawyer attending Greendale Community College.[1] Jeff Winger (Joel McHale) was once a highly successful defense attorney with the law firm Hamish, Hamish, and Hamlin. For over six years, he specialized in juvenile and traffic offenses, as well as DUI/DWA/DUID cases. During this period, he successfully defended Ian Duncan from a DUI, and they developed a friendship. After a successful case in which he defended a stripper named Mysti, Colorado Bar Association began scrutinizing his background. His rival and friend Alan Connor, then betrayed him by sending the CBA an incriminating email, revealing that Jeff did not receive a bachelor's degree from Columbia University but, in fact, got one that was "less than legitimate" and "better than real" from the country of Colombia. He strikes a deal with the bar in order to prevent him from being disbarred, on the condition that he graduate from an existing college with an actual degree. While brainstorming the right college to attend, he ate at a frozen-yogurt restaurant, and overheard a conversation detailing the ease of graduation from Greendale Community College. Remembering that Ian Duncan was a professor there, Jeff decided to attend in hopes that Duncan would help him graduate as quickly as possible. In the pilot, Jeff forms and joins the study group because he is attracted to fellow student Britta whom he hits on, despite her rejection of his advances. However, by the end of the pilot episode, he is kicked out of the group before being asked to join back in. After Britta definitively rejects his advances, Jeff begins flirting with his Statistics professor, Professor Slater, and they eventually begin dating. Before this, he shares a number of awkward moments with another study group member, Annie, after she kisses him to win a championship debate. After Professor Slater breaks up with him, he sleeps with Britta in the study room after a paintball fight in "Modern Warfare." At the end of season one, Britta and a newly interested Professor Slater compete for his affections, culminating in Britta professing her love for him at the school's Tranny Dance. Soon after, he meets Annie outside and they kiss. At the beginning of season two, Britta recants her "I love you," saying she was caught up in the spirit of competition, and he comes to an uneasy understanding with both Britta and Annie. Later in the season, the study group finds out that Britta and Jeff had been hooking up in secret throughout the year, and both of them then realize they have no interest in continuing to hook up. Jeff and Annie both wrestle with their romantic impulses towards each other for much of Season 3. In the season four finale, Jeff receives an Associate of Education degree and finally graduates from Greendale. Britta Perry[edit] Britta Perry (Gillian Jacobs), born in October 1982 and of Swedish descent, is a politically interested and socially empathetic student at Greendale, who in many cases serves as the study group's scapegoat. Britta experienced an unexplained trauma in her childhood during a birthday party, involving a man in a dinosaur costume. She decided to drop out of high school because she thought it would impress Radiohead.[2] After dropping out of school, she started vandalizing billboards around the area where she grew up. During the vandalizing she became friends with other people who liked to vandalize. The friends created a small group of "anarchist billboard vandals". When the group grew larger she was kicked out, via a democratic voting system. Soon after her departure, the group developed into a high-end advertising firm.[3] After her fallout Britta joined the Peace Corps, did some foot modeling, got teargassed at a World Trade rally, and took an extended vacation in Africa.[3] She at one point formed an activist group, THE ANHERCHISTS, but it disbanded when the other members grew tired of activism. This led Britta to realize that she needed to do something with her life. While applying for a job at a frozen yogurt restaurant, Britta began a conversation with an irritable man handing out flyers for Greendale Community College. Upon learning how easy gaining a degree from the school was, Britta resolved to get her G.E.D, and enrolled at Greendale.[3] In the Season 3 premiere, Britta tells the study group that she's decided to major in Psychology and work towards becoming a therapist, a career goal the study group is extremely skeptical about. In Season 3, an attraction begins to emerge between Britta and Troy. In "Origins of Vampire Mythology", it is a disguised Troy who texts "something nice" to Britta in an attempt to end her interest in an old flame of hers. She is shown smiling when she discovers that it was Troy who sent the text. In the following episode, "Virtual Systems Analysis", Annie plays matchmaker with them, and the two go on what appears to be an unofficial date. In the Season 4 premiere, it is revealed that Britta and Troy have begun dating. However they break up in "Basic Human Anatomy". Abed Nadir[edit] Abed's original plan at Greendale was to take business classes to eventually help run his father's falafel stand, but this became his backup plan when Britta inspired him to pursue his true passion. While like Spock, Abed has emotion and sympathy for his friends, he is very analytical and speaks with a rather detached and emotionless tone. He also has a distinct straightforwardness and often contextualizes situations via pop cultural tropes and references, which leads many people to suspect he has Asperger's Syndrome. Jeff openly accuses him of having Asperger's during the first study group meeting, which the others find offensive, but Abed responds "what's that?" with confusion, apparently having never heard of the term. While Abed exhibits many of the classic symptoms of Asperger's throughout the show, he apparently never submits himself for a formal diagnosis. Abed even comments on this possibility in the episode Regional Holiday Music, during his rap with Troy, as he raps "On the Spectrum? None of your business..." Inwardly, however, Abed might not be as pervasively content as his nonchalant exterior presents. His mother eventually became so fed up with his atypical behavior (due to his undiagnosed neurological condition) that she left the family when he was only six years old. Abed doesn't talk about it much, but his film project in the first season revealed that it deeply affected him. Abed truly cares for his father but frequently clashes with him, though privately Abed blamed himself that his mother left, and felt deeply guilty about the pain that her departure caused his father. Abed usually serves as a self-aware bridge between the world of "Community" and the world of the viewer, and this frequently permits "Community" to play with television motifs and conventions. However, although this is a defining character trait it is not his only one. Despite his straightforwardness and self-awareness he also has an underlying happy, innocent, and sweet nature. Because of this, Abed is generally loved by all, and especially so by his best friend Troy. Abed also possesses many stealth talents, such as being surprisingly athletic and coordinated. He also is competent at attracting both women and men. At the end of the episode "Horror Fiction in Seven Spooky Steps", it is revealed that Abed is the only sane member of the study group, according to a set of psychology tests they all took. Abed's family situation over the years has been quite complicated. His parents divorced when he was very young, and for a long time Abed blamed this on himself and his neuroatypicality. His mother is remarried and has her own family. Abed's dad, Gobi Nadir (played by Iqbal Theba), lives in close proximity to Greendale, and until Abed moved into Apartment 303 during his junior year at Greendale, Abed lived with his dad during the summer. According to Abed and his dad's accounts, most of his extended family either lives in the Middle East or in Poland. Shirley Bennett[edit] Shirley Bennett, née Edwards (Yvette Nicole Brown), is a mother of three who attends Greendale Community College.[6] At Greendale, Shirley is taking classes which will allow her to market her baked goods, specifically her famous brownies.[6] She is proud to be an African American and a woman but appreciates not being defined by those characteristics.[6] Shirley is a devout Christian and has very sweet, feminine and motherly mannerisms; but she also has thinly veiled rage issues—her husband cheated on her and she has an alcoholic past—as well as religious-tolerance issues. She is very friendly to everyone, but sometimes has problems minding her own business or keeping secrets, and she gossips compulsively. Shirley's life took a turn when she took her family to the Mall. While eating with her husband, Andre, at a restaurant, she was distracted by her children being accosted by an angered movie-goer. While she was gone, Andre met a stripper named Mysti, with whom he eventually had an affair. When she discovered this, her marriage ended in divorce, she fell into a deep depression, and began abusing alcohol. During an outing to a frozen yogurt restaurant, she read an advertisement for Greendale Community College, and decided to turn her life around. She then set out to earn an Associate's Degree in Business, so that she could start her own company. Shirley bonds principally with the women in the study group.[citation needed] Shirley just barely tolerates Pierce, given his racist statements. It was revealed in 'Foosball and Nocturnal Vigilantism', Season Three, that Shirley and Jeff met when they were 12 and 10, respectively. Shirley humiliated Jeff by beating him so badly in a Foosball game that he urinated all over his pants; they did not realize this for years because they'd never said what their nicknames were. In the Halloween episode of season two, Shirley and Chang hook up after bonding over how their costumes are misunderstood (she being Glinda the Good Witch and not Miss Piggy and he being Peggy Fleming and not Kristi Yamaguchi or Michelle Kwan). Shirley was divorced at that time, and she reconnects with her ex-husband before learning that she is pregnant. During the episode 'Cooperative Calligraphy' it is revealed Shirley has a home pregnancy test in her bag. In 'Asian Population Studies', Shirley's pregnancy is confirmed, and thanks to Troy's voice mail, it is speculated that Chang is the biological father. This possibility Shirley abhors, due to Chang's deviance and slightly malevolent insanity. Beyond the evidence of the voice mail that Chang sent to Troy during the Halloween episode, however, no one remembers this incident due to the Army wiping their memory and blaming it on roofies after a zombie incident. The baby is born in 'Applied Anthropology and Culinary Arts' in an anthropology classroom, and Shirley is relieved to find that it is her husband's baby. Graciously, she decides to name the baby Ben after Chang, as he helped her during the delivery. After the board of Hawthorne Wipes fires Pierce, he tries to open up a sandwich shop on campus with Shirley. Instead, the space for the sandwich shop is rented out to Subway, so Pierce and Shirley work together to sabotage the Subway restaurant. In "Curriculum Unavailable" Shirley delivers a speech against the Subway restaurant, and it is destroyed in the ensuing riot. In, "Introduction to Finality" Dean Pelton then offers the space to Shirley and Pierce, but because there is only one signature space, Pierce and Shirley file suit for the rights to the sandwich shop. After an inspirational Winger speech, Pierce and Shirley agree to jointly own Shirley's Sandwich Shop by having Jeff sign the papers, and she achieves her dream of opening her own business. Annie Edison[edit] Annie Edison (Alison Brie), born in December 1990, is a diligent, straight-laced, Type-A, Jewish twenty-one year-old who is in her fifth year at Greendale Community College after graduating and then reapplying to major in her dream, forensic science.[7] During high school, Annie was a timid, nerdy student who desperately wanted to succeed, subsequently developed an addiction to Adderall. She was acquaintance of Troy Barnes, who was a popular athlete at the time, and harbored a crush on him. They both attended a party where high school honors were being awarded. When Troy instead of Annie received the award for "Most likely to succeed", and when failed to recognize Annie when she berated him, she suffered a breakdown and ran through a (closed) sliding glass door. Her stress finally induced a full nervous breakdown that culminated in her jumping through a plate glass window yelling "Everyone's a robot!". Her injuries necessitated six separate reconstructive surgeries. Against the wishes of her mother, she chose to confront the addiction and go to rehab. This led to an estrangement from her family, including any financial support, and she currently survives on her saving from her childhood. In Season 2, the group learns she is living in a horrible neighborhood (in an apartment situated over Dildopolis, an all-night sex shop), and Troy and Abed invite her to move into their new place in Season 3. Annie has been shown to occasionally choose her own interests over keeping the group intact, first by dating Britta's estranged ex-boyfriend Vaughn and (temporarily) choosing to leave Greendale and the group to follow Vaughn to another college, and later by deciding to exclude Jeff from the group and her friendship during his Third Season premiere nervous breakdown when he attacked the table with an axe after accidentally inhaling monkey-gas. Her somewhat-illicit cradle sexuality is used to lure Jeff into Glee Club. Nonetheless, the self-interest cases serve only for within-episode plot tension, and the study group remains intact. Annie used to pine after Troy, on whom she had a crush since his high school football quarterback days, but that stops when she begins dating Vaughn. At the end of the first season, it appears as if Annie has developed a romantic dynamic with Jeff, whom she kissed both to win a debate competition and at the end of the season. While she is still interested in Jeff at the beginning of the second season, he is more standoffish, and after the study group learns he'd had sex with Britta during the paintball episode, Annie says she thinks of Jeff as "gross". Later in the episode "Asian Population Studies" Annie develops a crush on Dr. Rich, a fellow Greendale student that Jeff had clashed with, Jeff seems jealous but refuses to admit it. However Dr. Rich turns down Annie's advances due to their age difference. There have been indications that Annie may still harbor feelings for Jeff, and it has been suggested that he may feel similarly. However it is revealed in "Virtual Systems Analysis" that Annie is actually upset that Jeff used her by kissing her at the end of the first season, so she is now trying to teach Jeff to respect other ladies instead of using them. She practices this in the episode "Digital Exploration of Interior Design" By convincing Jeff to apologize to a student named Kim for supposedly also using her. It is revealed that Kim, much to Annie's dismay, is actually a male student that is upset Jeff kept forgetting his name and in the end Jeff learns nothing. Troy Barnes[edit] Though he repeatedly tries to deny it, Troy is skilled at plumbing and air conditioner repair, expertise recognized by the Greendale plumbing underground as well as Greendale's air conditioning technical school powerhouse cabal,("Advanced Gay") who have launched a serious campaign to convince him to leave the regular school and join their ranks. Troy also plays down the serious interest he shares with Britta in interpretive dance, which conflicts with his fading image as a football player. His lifetime idol is actor LeVar Burton, but he is so terrified to meet Burton in person, that when he does so, he goes catatonic. A reliable source of boyish faux-dumb wit, Troy has a number of unique opinions and beliefs, such as that there are only boy dogs and girl cats; he is also distracted by shiny objects and tends to cry over minor emotional setbacks. Troy has evolved from the start of the series as a cocky, selfish, image-obsessed boy to a goofy and emotional yet good-hearted and responsible young man. In the season four premiere, it is revealed that Britta and Troy have begun dating. They break up in "Basic Human Anatomy". In season five, after Pierce's funeral, Troy was given his remaining shares of Hawthorne Wipes weighting at about $14.3 million, on the condition that he sails around the world. Pierce had the chance to do so but failed and called it his biggest regret; he wants Troy to do it and Troy accepts. Troy then leaves in Geothermal Escapism. Pierce Hawthorne[edit] Piercinald Anastasia "Pierce" Hawthorne (Chevy Chase) is a moist towelette tycoon attending Greendale Community College. His father created Hawthorne Wipes, the award-winning moist towelette company.[3] He claims to be a world traveler, a toastmaster, magician, keyboardist and self-styled hypnotherapist, and considers himself a "quality of life person".[3] Though he considers himself to be a "Reformed Neo-Buddhist," he is actually a member of an obscure religious cult. In the first season episode "The Science of Illusion", the group pranks him into dressing as the Cookie Crisp wizard in order to achieve a level of ascension in his cult. His religion also plays an important role when his mother dies in season two and Pierce believes his "Buddhist" teachings that she will be reborn, carrying a canister of what he thinks is his mother's soul around. When, along with Jeff and Troy, he listens to a CD made by his mother telling him she's gone and encouraging him to let her go and live his life, Pierce simply shrugs it off as her losing her mind. At the same time, Jeff decides he's better off with that rationale and lets him continue with his belief. In Season 2, Pierce becomes more and more annoyed at the study group for leaving him out of their activities. He temporarily joins an elderly group of students who act like teenagers called the Hipsters, to feel accepted. He breaks both of his legs in a trampoline accident after revealing a secret trampoline Jeff and Troy were hiding. To move around, he buys himself an ineffective wheelchair powered by his breath, which he claims to have outbid three hospitals for. After this, he grows dependent on his painkillers and also becomes increasingly at-odds with the study group because of the combination of his nasty behavior and their tendency to exclude him from their activities. He begins to play the role of the study group's villain but both trends seem to subside when he comes to terms with the group after overdosing on his painkillers. These underlying tensions come to a head in "A Fistful of Paintballs", however, when it's revealed that the other members of the group secretly took a vote about whether they'd include him in the group next year, with only Annie voting to keep him in; by the end of "For A Few Paintballs More", while the other group members have reconsidered and are willing to let him back in the group, Pierce says he's not interested in staying with "whatever this is". He also tells the group that he assumes all of his relationships will end, which is why he constantly tests and provokes people, and why he's had seven divorces and never kept a group of friends at Greendale for longer than a semester (until he joined the study group). However, at the start of Season 3, he promptly returns and rejoins the study group, having regained an overall center of calm. Having always sought the approval of his racist, homophobic father, Cornelius Hawthorne, he becomes more defiant after his death (Advanced Gay). After the board of Hawthorne Wipes subsequently fires him, he tries to open up a sandwich shop on campus with Shirley. The space for the sandwich shop is rented out instead to Subway and together, Pierce and Shirley work together to sabotage the Subway restaurant. In "Curriculum Unavailable" Shirley delivers a speech against the Subway restaurant and it is destroyed in the ensuing riot. In, "Introduction to Finality" Dean Pelton then offers the space to Shirley and Pierce but because there is only one signature space, Pierce and Shirley file suit for the rights to the sandwich shop. After an inspirational Winger speech, Pierce fires his lawyer, Alan Connor (Rob Corddry), and he and Shirley agree to have joint ownership of Shirley's Sandwich Shop by having Jeff sign the papers. In the Season 4 finale, Pierce finally graduates from Greendale. He later appears in a cameo during the Season 5 episode "Repilot", as a pre-recorded holographic projection in a courtyard at Greendale. It is revealed that the hologram was donated in compliance with a court order he was "not allowed to discuss" and that he has "no legal right" to be on the Greendale campus as a result of the lawsuit. The recording also reveals that the Greendale College Quad is home to the "Pierce Hawthorne Museum of Gender Sensitivity and Sexual Potency". In the Season 5 episode "Basic Interguteal Numismatics", Shirley reveals that Pierce has died; in the episode "Cooperative Polygraphy", the group is forced to take a lie detector test in compliance with Pierce's will to prove that none of them have murdered him. He leaves the group sentimental parting words and gifts. He leaves Troy his remaining shares in his moist towelette company, worth over $14 million. He leaves Shirley his time-share in Florida. He also leaves each member of the study group a cylinder of his frozen sperm may they like to continue his legacy. Craig Pelton[edit] Dean Craig Pelton (Jim Rash) (recurring seasons 1-2, starring season 3-present) was an educator at Greendale for 10 years after or during which he earned a Bachelor of Education degree at the fictional Appomattox University, and has been Dean for four years.[10] He wants his school to be more like a "real" university, and is often asking favors of the students. He is described as politically correct, made evident when he changed the college mascot from the Greendale Grizzlies to the Greendale Human Beings in Football, Feminism and You; Pelton's politically-incorrect explanation for the change was that "most of these people have been called animals their entire lives". Pelton has displayed a number of quirks and eccentricities regarding his sexual orientation. He is described by Vice Dean Laybourne as a "pansexual imp", and when once called a "fruit" by student Leonard during an episode, Pelton mentioned briefly in passing that the term was "barely the whole truth." Pelton has also clearly displayed an obsessive crush on Jeff Winger, treating Jeff with favoritism and often inappropriately touching him (particularly on the chest) when he is nearby, even though Jeff does not reciprocate the feelings of attraction. It is implied that Pelton has also used Greendale's fountain (where students throw coins and make wishes) to make wishes regarding Jeff, and he is shown to have adopted a litter of kittens in one episode, two of which he named "Jeffrey". Despite his ongoing behavior, Pelton has on occasion shown some traces of self-doubt and confusion, once even questioning his life-choices after realizing that he had gone "too far" with one of his costumes after realizing he was going to have to wear it during a trip to the bank that day, commenting to himself that he needs to "get his life together". Ben Chang[edit] Chang has an antagonistic relationship with almost every student and faculty member at Greendale. He is on especially bad terms with Professor Duncan ("Pascal's Triangle Revisited", "The Psychology of Letting Go"), who potentially foreshadows Chang's lack of teaching qualifications early in the series when he notes Chang demands to be called "Señor" because he is not a real professor. In the first season finale, Chang and Duncan come to blows when Chang becomes a student and Duncan is suspended from teaching, resulting in a physical battle at the end of the year dance. Though Duncan gets a restraining order against him, Chang in turn nullifies this by getting a restraining order against Duncan, thus allowing him to take his anthropology class. They seem to have formed a grudging respect for each other since. Dean Pelton, in the wake of the riot, decides to fire Ben and pin the blame for causing the damage to the school on him. However, Chang instead replaces the dean with a doppelgänger, tranquilizing the real dean and keeping him prisoner within Greendale. The fake dean, under the orders of Chang, supports the school board at the trial for the "Greendale Seven", and the study group is expelled. With the study group gone, Chang takes over Greendale, installing his "Changlorious Bastards" as school-wide security officers and keeping the real Dean under heavy security. After gaining intel on the inner workings of Chang's rule over Greendale, the study group plan an "elaborate heist", attempting to rescue the real dean and expose Chang to the school board. While it originally looks as if the heist has failed, Chang realizes the study group has pulled a fast one on him, and the failed plan was merely part of a larger plan that succeeds. However, Chang realizes the true plan in time, and stops the study group from leaving. He explains his goal, which is to burn down the Greendale records and thereby erase any evidence of his wrongdoing, but fails to see that this could potentially burn down the entire school and kill everyone. With help from the Greendale Air-Conditioning Repair School, Troy and the group manage to escape Chang's imprisonment and prevent the fire from ever starting. In a final showdown with the study group, both Jeff and Chang equip electric taser batons with which they intend to duel, however this is quickly cut short by the school board arriving, demanding explanations for both the real and fake deans fighting each other and Chang's actions in running Greendale. He vows to explain, but quickly runs out the door. In the season three finale montage, it is shown that Chang has taken to living in air ducts again, however this time he resides in the ducts at City College, foreshadowing a possible alliance between the two in season four. However, he returns to Greendale in season four with no apparent memory of his identity or previous actions, referring to his condition as "Changnesia". However in the end of the episode "Advanced Documentary Filmmaking", it is revealed he is in fact faking Changnesia. In "Heroic Origins" after Abed realizes that it was because of Chang that the Study group all went to Greendale and tells him he was always a part of the Group and hints that he knows that "Kevin" was faking "Changnesia". He then calls Dean Stephen Spreck, Dean of City College that he is out of the plan to destroy Greendale. Chang decides to turn himself in for his crimes and returns to Greendale under work release as a math professor, living in the school Recurring characters[edit] Ian Duncan[edit] In the Season 5 episode "Basic Intergluteal Numismatics", Duncan returns, explaining that he had been taking care of his ailing mother, although he stopped because he had "put in [his] time", and didn't want to help her anymore. He has since appeared more frequently. Buzz Hickey[edit] Prof. Buzz Hickey (Jonathan Banks) is a criminology professor and Jeff's officemate in season five. Hickey's gruff demeanor is a result of his 15-year tenure at Greendale, and he serves as a mentor to Jeff, helping him to transition from student to teacher. Hickey is a member the Save Greendale student-teacher alliance and Annie's criminology teacher. Michelle Slater[edit] Eustice Whitman[edit] Prof. Eustice Whitman (John Michael Higgins) is an accounting professor at Greendale Community College, the college's debate coach, and a strong believer in carpe diem.[15] Despite believing that Whitman would be an easy teacher, Jeff had trouble passing his accounting class in "Introduction to Film" since Whitman grades his students not on their academics but on how well they "seize the day". In "Debate 109", he instructs Jeff as coach of the debate team and offers him unsolicited advice on how to lead his life fully in different circumstances. Sean Garrity[edit] Prof. Sean Garrity (Kevin Corrigan) is the theatrical drama instructor at Greendale. He gets involved in a conspiracy intrigue with Jeff, Annie and Dean Pelton, when he mysteriously poses as Jeff's fake Conspiracy Theories night school class teacher, "Professor Professorson" in the episode "Conspiracy Theories and Interior Design". He later teaches Troy and Britta in an elective acting class and directs Troy in an all-black cast stage production of Fiddler on the Roof, entitled, "Fiddla Please". In "Introduction to Teaching", he teaches a two day course called "Nicolas Cage: Good or Bad?" that Abed finds very difficult. June Bauer[edit] Marshall Kane[edit] Noel Cornwallis[edit] Alex "Star-Burns" Osbourne[edit] Alex "Star-Burns" Osbourne (Dino Stamatopoulos) is a middle-aged student at Greendale known for his facial hair and sideburns shaped like stars. He takes a number of classes with the main characters, including Spanish and Boating. He is a member of the campus' "cool study group", and a music lover.[16] Though Star Burns is habitually laid back and sloppily dressed, he has a son who, in stark contrast to him, is incredibly businesslike. In "Intro to Political Science", he admits that he is a drug dealer. He worked in the school cafeteria until the group got him fired for siphoning off chicken fingers for his friends. For the most part, however, he is disconnected from the group and he sometimes seems confused as to who the individual members in the group actually are. He does know who Jeff is, and acts as the impromptu campus spokesman after Britta and Professor Slater both declare their love for him by saying everyone's waiting for Jeff's response to what happened. Though he enjoys the attention he receives with his sideburns, he craves an identity beyond them and begins wearing a top hat at the beginning of the second season to draw attention away from them. He is allegedly killed when the meth lab in the trunk of his car explodes in "Basic Lupine Urology". As per his wishes, his body was cremated. In the third season finale it is revealed that he faked his death and is now attempting to start a new identity; to this end he is shown sporting a new haircut, albeit still with star-shaped sideburns. He returns in "Basic Intergluteal Numismatics", when he is found hiding in the stables, where has apparently lived while hiding, eating garbage, and trying to develop a "cat car". He ends up being accused of being the Greendale Ass-Crack bandit, only for Jeff to find out this was a ruse by the Dean to deflect attention, in exchange for the Dean hiding Star-Burns' meth charges, and allowing him to remain in the stables. Leonard Rodriguez[edit] Leonard Rodriguez (formerly Leonard Briggs, played by Richard Erdman) is an elderly man who is studying business at Greendale Community College.[17] He and Jeff have a comically antagonistic relationship resulting in Jeff and other members of the study group to only say "Shut up Leonard..." followed by a comment (Shut up Leonard. No one knows what you're talking about; Shut up Leonard. I talked to your son at family day, I know all about your gambling). Though noticeably older than the other students at Greendale, he acts in as reckless and laid-back a fashion as most young adults, often using slang and engaging in such activities as playing pranks and bass guitar and encountering "pregnancy scares". He leads a rowdy, disobedient band of elderly Greendale students called the "Hipsters" (because they all apparently have hip replacements), which Pierce temporarily hang out. "Messianic Myths and Ancient Peoples" He has children, though they are never seen on camera. In the season two finale he claims to have been one of the Little Rascals, to have been in "a few real wars" that were less scary than the all-out paintball battle raging on campus, and to have been banned from the Denny's near the fifteen exit. During the student election episode from Season Two, he ran for office, using the surname "Rodriguez" in an attempt to court the Latino vote. It is revealed in multiple episodes from Season Three that Leonard still has the last name Rodriguez in a title card. Leonard has a series of videos on YouTube in which he reviews food products. One such video is shown in a closing scene, where he declares Euginio's Four Cheese Pizza to be "a buy." He does this again in the episode "Introduction to Finality" with a bag of potato chips he also approves of. While Leonard briefly held valedictorian status in Season 4, Dean Pelton (empowered by a pseudo body-swap where he was acting and talking like Jeff Winger) learned that after earning an A in a brainless course he took in 1968, Leonard simply made all of his subsequent classes Pass/Fail, taking him out of the running for a title now coming down to a showdown between Annie and Shirley. Vaughn Miller[edit] Rich Stephenson[edit] Rich Stephenson (Greg Cromer) is a student who is in Jeff's pottery class, of whom Jeff grows jealous for his sculpting skills ("Beginner Pottery"). A doctor who is friendly and well-liked by everyone, he stands in stark contrast to Jeff who tries to catch him as a ringer. Nicknamed "Doc Potterywood" by Jeff, it is implied that Jeff may actually have been right and Rich had secretly taken previous pottery classes at different colleges. It is hinted at the end of "Beginner Pottery" that his relationship with his mother is extremely strained. Rich had a brother who died in a roller-coaster accident ("Beginner Pottery"). He spends time with the study group again in the season two Halloween episode, when he attempts to treat the infected students while dressed as a banana and causes Jeff to openly admit his hatred for him. After spending winter break volunteering with Annie, he joins Duncan's anthropology class and unsuccessfully competes against Chang for a spot in the study group. When he turns down a date with Annie due to her young age, Jeff begins to admire his ethics and seeks life-advice from him although it is to abuse the power Rich gets from everyone loving him. Fat Neil[edit] Magnitude (Luke Youngblood), short for "Magnetic Attitude", is a student at Greendale who is described as a "One man party." His catchphrase is "Pop pop!" a phrase that gains him laughter from his peers. It is implied that he is disliked by the faculty staff, particularly Professor Marshall Kane ("Competitive Ecology"). In the episode "Intro to Political Science" Magnitude runs for the office of Student Body President. He is one of the final two candidates, opposing Leonard in "the political debate of the century" which consists of Magnitude repeating his "Pop pop!" catchphrase, while Leonard blows raspberries as a retort.[19] When Dean Pelton and Annie take the "Pop pop!" phrase away from him to give to a lazy potential student with rich parents, he is left broken and speechless, and they're so horrified that they tell the student he cannot have Magnitude's catchphrase (though to everyone's surprise, that ends up leading him to enroll at Greendale, because he's tired of having his ass kissed and never getting any better at anything) and Magnitude happily declares "POP POP!" Magnitude attended high school with Annie and Troy. It was revealed that Magnitude's use of "Pop pop!" as a catchphrase began at the high school party where Annie had her mental breakdown ("Heroic Origins"). In season five ("Geothermal Escapism"), he admits that he is actually British. Garrett Lambert[edit] Todd Jacobson[edit] Todd Jacobson (David Neher) is a student at Greendale who takes biology with the study group in "Competitive Ecology". They all pick on him after he is paired with Pierce on a class project, and inadvertently upsets the natural balance of the group. He eventually leaves the study group, calling their love for each other "weird" and "toxic." Todd is a married Iraq War veteran who has a newborn son. He also appears in "Basic Lupine Urology", in which he is accused of destroying the study group's biology project. Other recurring students[edit] • Eric Wisniewski (Bill Parks) is a football player at Greendale. He appears in "For a Few Paintballs More" before getting shot down by city college paintball soldiers.[21] • Pavel Iwaszkiewicz (Dominik Musiol) is a Polish exchange student, and a hallmate of Abed, serving - among other things - as his directing assistant.[22] • Mark Millot (DC Pierson) is a journalist for the student newspaper as a co-founder of the college sketch group the Greendale Goofaws, which also include Linda Greene (Meggie McFadden), Buzz Foster (Dominic Dierkes) and Derrick Bideos (Dan Eckman).[23] In real life, actors Pierson, McFadden, Dierkes, and Eckman form the comedy group Derrick Comedy, with Donald Glover as the fifth member. • Quendra (Marcy McCusker) is a student at Greendale whom Jeff brings to a mixer in order to keep Rich from being voted into the study group in "Asian Population Studies". Her personality is that of a flirty, air-headed blonde who has a penchant for spelling words with "Qu" where a "K" sound would normally be, which explains her name. She also appears in "For a Few Paintballs More". In "Basic Lupine Urology", Star-Burns attempts to use her as a "make-out decoy". She is mentioned in the 4th season episode "Intro to Knots" when Annie tells the group that she'd learned from Quendra that they were receiving a failing grade from Professor Cornwallis, who Quendra did "assistant work" for. Upon hearing of Quendra's connection to Cornwallis, Shirley replies sarcastically alluding to Cornwallis' history with co-eds. • Annie Kim (Irene Choi) is Annie's chief academic rival at Greendale. Intelligent and extremely competitive, she copies Annie's idea of a Greendale Model United Nations Team ("Geography of Global Conflict"), and later appears as a rival to the group in other school events. • Harry Jefferson (Wil Garret) is an elderly, blind man. Appears in ("Digital Exploration of Interior Design")("Basic Lupine Urology"). He has a short monologue in ("Pillows and Blankets"), where he states "Well, I guess all hugs have to come to an end" . Robert Laybourne[edit] Crazy Schmidt[edit] Sgt. Nunez[edit] Sgt. Nunez (Mel Rodriguez) is the chief of campus security for Greendale College. All of Nunez's officers quit when Dean Pelton informs them that the college no longer has funds to pay them, and they can only be reimbursed in class credits. Nunez stays because he needs SCUBA certification, and Chang becomes his new underling. He eventually quits after Dean Pelton sides with Chang. Carl and Richie[edit] Carl (Jeremy Scott Johnson) and Richie (Brady Novak) are two inept, often drunk members of Greendale's board of directors. Though they are generally laid back and friendly, they have repeatedly low standards for the school and fail to realize when Chang replaces the Dean. The Greendale Human Being[edit] The Greendale Human Being is the "ethnically neutral" school mascot created and designed by Pierce and Dean Pelton in "Football, Feminism and You". Though intended to embody a spirit of inclusiveness and to avoid derogatory stereotypes, its featureless appearance is distinctly uncanny, like a neutral gray gimp or zentai performer. It appears in a number of different events and initiatives sponsored by the Dean as the school's mascot, and fumes from the magic marker used on its costume have been known to make it unusually aggressive. It has been seen with both female and child versions of itself. Items have been added to the costume, such as angel wings for Valentine's Day and icicles in "Regional Holiday Music", which the students say only make it look creepier. In an episode of Dean Pelton's Office Hours, a series of mini episodes featuring the Dean, it's revealed that at least one of the mascots is played by a woman. Andre Bennett[edit] Alan Connor[edit] Gobi Nadir[edit] Officer Cackowski[edit] Officer Cackowski (Craig Cackowski) is a local police officer, repeatedly visiting Greendale in the line of duty. He originally appeared as a member of campus security before inexplicably becoming a police officer. He seems to be friends with Professor Garrity, referring to him as Sean. He appears in "The Science of Illusion" to investigate a body Britta drops out of the biology labs; in "Conspiracy Theories and Interior Design", he teaches Jeff and Annie the dangers of fake gun shootouts. He later returns in season 3 to investigate Troy and Abed's landlord in "Foosball and Nocturnal Vigilantism", and in "Curriculum Unavailable" to assign Abed to a psychologist for sneaking onto Greendale Campus to investigate the Dean's Doppelganger Chang has in control. Steven Spreck[edit] Dean Steven Spreck (Jordan Black) is the dean of rivaling City College, who makes several subversive efforts to shut Greendale down, including the instigation of an all-out paintball war on Greendale's campus. Like Dean Pelton, he seems to have an ambiguous sexuality. He appears briefly during a montage at the end of season three, apparently forming another plot. In the Season 4 episode "Heroic Origins", it is revealed that he is working with Chang to sabotage Greendale, and has blueprints for a giant mechanical spider. Gilbert Lawson[edit] Gilbert Lawson (Giancarlo Esposito) is Cornelius Hawthorne's personal assistant, executor of estate, and illegitimate son. According to Cornelius' will, he has Pierce and the study group play "Journey to the Center of Hawkthorne" to claim his inheritance. After learning that Cornelius refused to accept Gilbert when he was alive, the group agrees to allow Gilbert to claim the inheritance in the episode "Digital Estate Planning". He later becomes Pierce's roommate in his mansion. Annie's Boobs[edit] Faux-by (J.P. Manoux) is an underemployed Moby impersonator that Chang hires to impersonate and replace the Dean after he takes over the school. Guest characters[edit] • Cornelius Hawthorne (Larry Cedar in "Advanced Gay" and "Digital Estate Planning") is Pierce's overbearing father. Both a racist and a homophobe, Cornelius wears a toupee made out of ivory in order to avoid hair coming from "orientals". He dies of a heart attack after Jeff yells at him about his continued dominance over Pierce's life. Cornelius is seen as embarrassed by his son Pierce even from a young age. • Jeremy Simmons (Aaron Himelstein in "Debate 109") is a student at a neighboring community college, who is the primary rival of Greendale's debate team. • Madame LeClair (Twink Caplan in "Interpretive Dance") is the ballet professor of Greendale. • Coach Herbert Bogner (Blake Clark[26] in "Physical Education") is a physical education coach who teaches billiards at Greendale. He comes into conflict with Jeff, who refuses to wear gym shorts when playing pool, and the two face off in a billiards match which ends in the nude. • Amber (Katharine McPhee in "Basic Genealogy") is one of Pierce's 32 ex-stepchildren, who pretends to like him and comes to Family Day since he sends her big sums of money. She is attracted to Jeff and the two have sex until Jeff learns how she is exploiting Pierce. • Prof. Marion Holly (Tony Hale[27] in "Beginners Pottery") is the pottery professor at Greendale. While his class seems very easy and passable, he has a zero-tolerance policy for students who jokingly reference the pottery scene from the film Ghost (1990) (which he calls "Ghosting") and thus comes into conflict with Jeff. He has a habit of calling the students in his class "blueberries". • Admiral Lee Slaughter (Lee Majors in "Beginners Pottery") is the gruff teacher of boating at Greendale who runs his classes on a sailboat in the school's parking lot. • Ted (Drew Carey in "Accounting for Lawyers") is Jeff's former boss. He started up a law firm so that he could have people around him who would not inquire about the weird hole in his hand. He and Jeff have a good relationship as evidenced by his offering Jeff a consulting position at the firm. Alan Connor claims in "Introduction to Finality" that that Ted has died (having been literally eaten by sharks) and that Alan is now the head of the firm, but this is not confirmed. • Paige (Brit Marling in "Early 21st Century Romanticism") is a student at Greendale befriended by Britta. Britta believes that Paige is a lesbian, and uses her friendship with Paige to show her open-mindedness. Annie learns from Paige's friend that Paige is heterosexual, and interested in Britta for largely the same reasons Britta is interested in her. Britta and Paige eventually realize that neither of them are lesbians, and have a falling out. • Special Agent Robin Vohlers (Eliza Coupe in "Intro to Political Science") is an emotionless Secret Service agent, who scouts out Greendale in preparation for Vice President Joe Biden's arrival. She meets and is intrigued by Abed with whom she has several similarities. The two seem to develop feelings for each other enough for Vohlers to try and make him a threat to national security so she can spend more time around him, while Abed claims he can make napalm out of dish soap and catfood on television so she can observe him. They end up having a "date" watching Kickpuncher with Vohlers watching through binoculars from her van in the parking lot. She also bugged Abed's room. • Luis Guzmán is the most famous alumnus of Greendale, and appears as himself in the episode "Documentary Filmmaking: Redux" to help film the college's new TV ad. Previously, the Dean had commissioned a statue of him for Greendale's campus. Like the study group, Guzmán acknowledges the inferiority of Greendale Community College but holds it dear because of the good times had there (His good times there related to him getting "Laid like crazy"). • Juergen (Nick Kroll in "Foosball and Nocturnal Vigilantism") is the leader of a German foosball gang at Greendale. • Vinnie (French Stewart in "Celebrity Impressionists") is the manager of a company that rents out celebrity impersonators who used to impersonate French Stuart himself. After Abed goes in debt after using the service too much, Vinnie makes the group work for him at a bar mitzvah. • Reinhold (Chris Diamantopoulos in "Alternate History of the German Invasion") is Jeurgen's brother who seeks revenge on the study group by repeatedly reserving their table before they can. • Mark (Joe Lo Truglio in "Heroic Origins" and "Advanced Introduction to Finality") is one of Jeff's former partners from his law-firm. In "Advanced Introduction to Finality", he offers Jeff a partnership at his law firm, claiming that Jeff is still a great lawyer. Jeff later decides against Mark's offer, instead opting to search for another firm closer to Greendale so he can remain close to the Study Group. • Bob Waite (Nathan Fillion in "Analysis of Cork-Based Networking") is the head custodian at Greendale. Though a slick politician, one of his primary concerns is his difficulty accessing internet porn on campus. Fictional characters within Community[edit] Inspector Spacetime[edit] Inspector Spacetime (Travis Richey) is the protagonist in a British science fiction television program called Inspector Spacetime that has been on the air for fifty years, and has many similarities to Doctor Who (both of them are British science fiction television programs that have been running for approximately fifty years). With his sidekick (similar to that of a companion in Doctor Who) Constable Reggie, he travels through space and time while fighting creatures such as "Blorgons". Starting in the third season, Troy and Abed become major fans and often impersonate Reggie and the Inspector. Constable Reggie[edit] Constable Reggie (Derwin Reggie) is the secondary character in "Inspector Spacetime", who acts as the Inspector's sidekick. Unlike the Inspector, who is an alien, Reggie is human. Kickpuncher (Derek Mears) is the titular hero in a series of cheesy action movies that Troy and Abed like to make fun of, while still being fans. He is a cybernetically enhanced police officer, reminiscent of Robocop. His first name is David. The Helicopter Pilot[edit] Evil Abed[edit] Evil Abed (Danny Pudi) is (implied to be) a figment of Abed's imagination who torments Abed as his nemesis. Identical to Abed except for an evil-looking felt beard, he is originally from the darkest timeline in the episode "Remedial Chaos Theory" and makes a return appearance in the episode "Contemporary Impressionists". He returns to seek revenge against Abed and the study group in the season 3 finale "Introduction to Finality". His beard parodies that worn by "Mirror Spock" in the classic Star Trek episode "Mirror Mirror." Webisode characters[edit] 2. ^ 06 minutes and 06 seconds into S01E01 - Pilot 5. ^ "The 20 Best TV Characters of 2011". List of the Day. Paste. December 5, 2011. Retrieved 2013-03-29. "It quickly became apparent, though, that he was actually the show’s emotional center—that everyone around him was a little disturbed, and he would be the one holding it all together. And when he reached that point of emotional overload in Season Two, the result was 'Abed's Uncontrollable Christmas,' Community's best episode that didn’t involve paintball. His pop-culture obsessions and antics with his buddy Troy have made for some of the show’s finest moments, particularly the closing segments like the absurdist Troy and Abed in the Morning." 13. ^ Community S02E11 "Abed's Uncontrollable Christmas" External links[edit]	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Community_characters	<urn:uuid:71a500e0-1bbd-4408-a454-528eefa97dfa>	en	0.978143	0.028788
Submitted by PS-Analog 465d ago \| opinion piece 2013 – PS Vita’s Last Hope 2013 needs to be a turning point, so what will it offer us? (PS Vita) « 1 2 » Embeepee + 466d ago Good article AMP! MmaFan-Qc + 465d ago nothing but a blog, i wouldnt call it an article. RustedMan + 465d ago ...Then what would you call it? Anyways, I've yet to purchase a Vita, and probably never will at this rate, Sony has yet to entice me with a SINGLE game, considered by most to be it's "system seller". They have many IPs, but for some reason, the transition to the DUAL ANALOG STICK has been difficult. As someone who purchased the PSP for it's power, and a person who enjoys any company who makes good games, I feel like Sony has put the wrong people in charge of some of these titles. Personally, I'm pretty shocked that even launch titles have failed, (with the exception of Uncharted: Golden Abyss). C'mon Sony. #1.1.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(13) \| Disagree(57) \| Report chazjamie + 465d ago the future is so bleak. im selling mine. not really sad about letting go of this device. just waiting for some hits on my ad. AIndoria + 465d ago @RustedMan Persona 4 Golden. How about it? Buff1044 465d ago \| Off topic \| show gaffyh + 465d ago @RustedMan - He'd call it a blog? Duh. Sites like this are always quick to play the "it's doomed" card, it was the same with the PS3, and look at it now. I'm not a big fan of what Nintendo is doing with the Wii U, but it's way too early to say whether or not that is doomed either. Soldierone + 465d ago @RustedMan, then don't buy one. You don't own one so how do you know if it sucks? You can't just play it once or twice and call it a failure..... If you don't plan on buying one, then stop talking negative about it and just leave it alone. So none of the current games interest you, okay. So you rather go support the crap phone market instead? Have fun playing knockoff Gameloft games and updating your phone every 6 months to play identical looking games to your current phone. "Surprised launch games failed" how? They are selling fine, even Ubisoft said they were happy with Assassins Creed numbers. Its launch, not everyone has one, and launch titles never see mind blowing numbers.... FriedGoat + 465d ago I'm looking forward to the multiple rockstar games. https://twitter.com/jimreil... Dmarc + 465d ago I seriously dont get how 3million in 1 year is bad. Can someone seriously explain it to me.. and please dont say 3DS because compared to 3DS at this rate the 360 ps3 and wii should be considered "doomed" and I guess psp flopped too because it didnt sell as much as the ds? despite selling over 70million. seriously I need an explanation. It feels like PS3 2007 all over again.People claiming things with no real explanation just to tarnish the name. born2live + 465d ago If you'd asked me what I think of Vita 3 weeks ago, I would have agreed with your opinion but, as a ps+ subscriber for my PS3 and with the deals on Black Friday, it would've been stupid for me not to buy one... You already start with 6 games (3 of which are real and high ranking Vita games) on PS+, and the bundle I got was nothing short of amazing... I still agree tho that they need to develop more games, and fast (the "coming soon" list is not as enticing as I'd like, at least in the short run), but buy one and you will not regret it. It's just the most amazing handheld I've ever had. #1.1.9 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(3) \| Disagree(1) \| Report slapedurmomsace + 464d ago @dmarc...because lets use the ps3 as example, it launched in 2006, at 3 million sales a year, it would be coming up on the big 20 million sold..not good. The sales have to pick up. RustedMan + 464d ago Just because I am not liking where the Vita is going doesn't mean I favor the smartphone market of games, or Nintendo, or a damned NeoGeo. I believe that mobile gaming is in flux right now, we don't know what we want. Are we going digital-only or not? are we using storage for game data or are we eventually switching over to streaming games over the internet? what imminent changes will immediately throw curve balls at the handheld market? For some reason, I'm considered an outlandish fanboy who burns printed pages of Sony's logo but I'm not. Hell I've owned 3 ps3's because two of them have YLOD on me. I consider that to be a pretty damned loyal costumer. If you guys feel satisfied with your Vita, that's fine, (and don't get me the, "well, don't comment on this article then" crap. Everyone has an opinion, and my opinion is worth the same as everyone else on here). I have never played the Persona series, I haven't been big into RPGs as of late. But, I've owned every handheld, with the exception of the 3DS, and know that regardless of power, it's games that make the system, and why the "big boys" of Sony can't make their own portable adaptations of their franchises is beyond me. Yes, it's very early, and I don't think the Vita is going to die anytime soon, (hence the needed clarification of my earlier post) but I am somewhat letdown by what I've seen. Yes, financially, it's damned difficult to settle for games with little replay value, (with the exception of the heralded Persona 4). All I have to say is that the landscape is changing, and I despise Apple's self imposed monopoly as well as the idea that the five minute "flick the ball into the basket" style of App store flash game will seemingly conquer all handheld games. I do have high hopes for the console, and developers like "Ready At Dawn" have shown that they are fully capable of making portable versions of their console counterparts, but I hope the trend doesn't go on for long. #1.1.11 (Edited 464d ago ) \| Agree(0) \| Disagree(3) \| Report Ritsujun + 465d ago More like Wii U's DOOMED. Please learn to spell, by the way. fatstarr + 465d ago Lol the delusion in the comment section right now is off the charts. Ill message you when the wiiu passes vitas sales. #1.2.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(7) \| Disagree(12) \| Report JoGam + 465d ago Non-biased...lol. yeah right ConstipatedGorilla + 465d ago Why all the disagrees? You guys really think the Vita's going to hang around much longer? wishingW3L + 465d ago history is gonna repeat itself. Sony will not abandon the Vita just like they didn't abandon the PS3 when all we got on N4G (back in 2006) were articles about its doomsday. But guess what... PS3 has the brightest future between the 3 consoles. =) Gabe Newell [2007]: "I'd say, even at this late date, they (Sony) should just cancel it (the PS3) and do a do over. Just say, 'This was a horrible disaster and we're sorry and we're going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it'." #1.4.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(26) \| Disagree(7) \| Report Marquis_de_Sade + 465d ago wishingW3L, the vita is in a completely different situation to the PS3 though. The PS3 has only ever been competing against other consoles, whereas the Vita is competing for pocket space with increasingly powerful smart phones that do so much more than play games. I'm not arguing that a market doesn't exist for a dedicated handheld console, certainly "core" gamers will always prefer the physical controls, but Sony need the Vita to sell to more than just the core demographic. punisher99 + 465d ago "Why all the disagrees? You guys really think the Vita's going to hang around much longer?" Is it gonna just somehow drop off the face of the earth and disappear from existence?? ConstipatedGorilla + 465d ago No, but there will reach a point when nobody is developing games for it anymore, and I suspect that will be sooner rather than later. People don't want it. It's not selling. It's not that hard to comprehend really. insomnium2 + 464d ago Why would you say this without giving Vita even ONE holiday season? It's christmas soon you know.... I got my Vita a couple of weeks ago and joined ps+. Now I'm playing gravity rush and enjoying the hell out of it. Does someone have a problem with that? #1.4.5 (Edited 464d ago ) \| Agree(1) \| Disagree(1) \| Report PS-Analog + 464d ago I highly doubt that the Vita will fail anytime soon. Sony are laying down some solid foundations with the Vita like Cross-Gaming and adding it to PS+. It's also easy to develop on and port games to, so little resources are needed to get games on the platform and should encourage developers to keep developing games on it because it's not too risky. That said, 2012 was a bit of a rough year and Vita failed to reach Sony's expectations. We fully expect the PSV to come back fighting and continue to seep the message into people minds of the awesome feature that is Cross-Gaming. Big games will probably come next year along with a price cut to start some momentum. It also needs a Monster Hunter game because right now in Japan, PSP is more prefered and even outsells the PSV on a weekly basis. They will inevitably get the Japanese moving from the PSP to the PSV soon. The PSV is no where near dead and I continue to use mine and will do for a long time. #1.4.6 (Edited 464d ago ) \| Agree(1) \| Disagree(1) \| Report ConstipatedGorilla + 463d ago @PS Analog, I hope you're right. I'd like to see good stuff come out on it. I have my doubts though. nintendoland + 465d ago agree 100% and I don't hate ps vita. I think vita has no great games. Not a single one. Only ps store psp games such as gta are worth playing. Vita is flop. Get over it BlaqMagiq24 + 465d ago "I think vita has no great games. Not a single one." Says the nintendo fanboy that has never played one. Kratoscar2008 + 465d ago Persona 4 Golden and Uncharted Golden Abbys are great games, P4G has been one of the most positive reviewed handheld game this year. Fanboyism is AMAZING! chrisarsenalsavart + 465d ago just remind me what great games 3ds had at launch unchartedxplorer + 465d ago Uncharted Golden abyss? Wipeout? Have you been living under a rock? Kennytaur + 465d ago Persona 4 Golden is the highest rated game of the year on any platform. If the Vita has no games, then I'm not even sure what the 3DS has... AcidKill + 465d ago There are limits of trolling, dude! And I don't think this is the right place for you to troll.. Go moan your A** somewhere else! #1.5.6 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(6) \| Disagree(4) \| Report charted + 465d ago 2 games hardly warrants a $300 (Australia) purchase. I would rather buy a PS3 with that money. Dont get me wrong, vita is a powerful device but it is not supported well by Sony. #1.5.7 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(4) \| Disagree(5) \| Report TheRacingX + 465d ago he's just mad because his mom said she wouldn't buy him one for Christmas..... FriedGoat + 465d ago @nintendoland yes, it only has the highest rated handheld game ever. P4P WiiUsauce + 464d ago I'm a huge Nintendo fan, and if I bought a Vita, which I will very soon, I'm just waiting for those stupid memory cards to drop in price (if they have somebody please tell me, I could've already been playing Persona), I could EASILY think of 10 games off the top of my head that I want for it. not in any specific order, but this is just off the top of my head: WipeOut 2048 Uncharted Golden Abyss Persona 4 Golden Mortal Kombat LBP Vita PlayStation Allstars Gravity Rush Rayman Origins Need for Speed Most Wanted Bowzabub + 465d ago 3 words. Grand Theft Auto. wages of sin + 465d ago Here's three more: Call of Duty. You guys say the same lame crap everytime. It's too predictable at this point. The Vita is lame and it's not going to leave any signifcant mark. Just like the psps go. And to you fools who say "Sony won't leave us!" get real. Sony has to save face that's why they would continue to support when no one else cares. #1.6.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(9) \| Disagree(23) \| Report stage88 + 465d ago @wages of sin Oh, you have one bubble. It makes sense now. specialguest + 465d ago No one game alone is going to save the Vita. If COD couldn't even cause a spark, then GTA definitely won't. It's going to take a consistent wave of great titles combined with price cuts to turn things around. feeter + 465d ago @ specialguest... CoD on the Vita was rushed but i doubt R* will do that... there are several things Sony needs to change to have the Vita sell better but only time will tell if they will do them tachy0n + 465d ago this article is only more proof of Apple and nintendo trying to kill the PSVita, they do that so people get scared and dont buy them, i remember all the "oh PC gaming is DOOMZZZ!!!" and look, it still is alive..... Tapewurm + 465d ago If you haven't found a reason to buy Vita yet then there is only one reason.... You are poor! "Your family is POOR Kenny!!!" All joking aside :) There are several games for the Vita that warrant a purchase....having Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Madden, MLB the Show, Call of Duty, Marvel Vs. Capcom, Unit 13,and several other titles that are out atm available on the go is just simply a dream come true .... If you can afford one and are truly interested in console quality in the palm of your hand....I truly recommend grabbing one. showtimefolks + 465d ago sony has proven it again and again that its not race but a marathon so don't expect sony to drop Vita anytime soon. also with more games coming out in 2013 vita is actually looking good. can't wait for the game from LBP developer can't wait to play that and the new killzone could be great too people just want Vita to fail, since day one its been all doom articles, Vita launched with 20 plus games and people forget that and call it a failure yet wii-u launched with 20 plus games and all of the sudden its great? double standard i think sony rather sell a little less but make a profit, they are in no position to loose money. and the same goes for ps3 and when they launch ps4. Every system from sony will have to make a profit so days of sony loosing money are gone. their margin for error isn't that big now. if you just lost all those billions would you take more loss? or would you sell let's say 2 million less but make a profit on each sold. #1.9 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(4) \| Disagree(1) \| Report \| Reply Blackdeath_663 + 466d ago a really good monster hunter game would do wonders for the vita right now. the vita is a pretty impressive piece of tech and at a reasonable price too its a pitty there isn't much to get excited about as far as the games go. at this point i think its go big or go home for the vita. TheRacingX + 465d ago Ragnarock Odyssey is pretty good at filling that, swansong + 465d ago I think Sony will do a sort of re-launch when they are ready for a decent price drop. They should at least drop the price next year around march too $179 bundle with a 8gb card and a voucher for a Vita psn game.Then advertise the heck out of it like it just launched for the first time. TheEnigma313 + 465d ago I think it's the price, if Sony drops it to $199.99 it will sell quick. I also think it needs to come with a 4gb memory card. Ju + 465d ago $200 and some built in memory. 4gb would be a start, but should be at least 16 in the long run. I think it's not the price, it's the mem cards or/and their pricing. Adding 1 or 2 games in a bundle would sure be nice, too. Everybody who gets their hands on mine is impressed. I guess it sure isn't the product which "fails". #4.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(0) \| Disagree(0) \| Report \| Reply XB1_PS4 + 465d ago Bundles at $179-$199 seem to be irresistable. I hope they have a good plan, because I don't want my vita to be unsupported anytime soon. Cam977 + 465d ago Fortunately, us Vita owners have a backup incase the console was left to die - the Plastation Store! That's right, there are 100s of PS1 and PSP games for you to enjoy for a bargain price (in general). XB1_PS4 + 464d ago I agree somewhat, but I can get all the PsOne games on emulator/PsOne and all the PsP games on my PsP. If I didn't have a PsP with a huge library of games, then yeah that would be a good deal on it's own. shivvy24 + 465d ago theres great games already on it like uncharted and theres great future games like ratchet and clank , sly 4 about to come out on DragonKnight + 465d ago When it doesn't support a hater agenda, or a kid with no money, it's easy to ignore the fact that Vita already has great games on it and isn't expensive. Just another typical Sony hate article. After 6 years of the same recycled hate, you gotta wonder if there are scripts for these articles that get re-written over and over with minor changes. Kennytaur + 465d ago A sensible person appeared! I think the Vita is rather cheap for what you're getting and I've yet to finish a lot of my games because there are so many... andibandit + 465d ago To be honest, i've already played plenty of UC on my PS3, and i'm hardly inclined to shell out 180$ + 30$ +$Memory card, to play it again. #6.2 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(8) \| Disagree(24) \| Report \| Reply MasterCornholio + 465d ago The main reason why i didnt buy Uncharted Golden Abyss (which is a new game in the series and not a PS3 port like you are claiming) is because i really didn't want to shell out 50$ for a portable version of Uncharted. But ever since it got added to plus i manage to download it and several other games for free with my Vita. But i do agree with you that the memory cards are expensive but N4G (contest) a while back gave me a free 32GB stick so im not really complaining. #6.2.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(5) \| Disagree(6) \| Report DragonKnight + 465d ago @andibandit. In order for whatever you said to be true, you'd have to have had a PS3 to begin with. Plus, that $180 you mentioned was for a bundle THAT INCLUDES A 4GB MEMORY STICK! Failure troll is a failure. cpayne93 + 465d ago Uncharted on the Vita was awesome, but if you want an experience you can't get anywhere else go for gravity rush. It might not be perfect, but the gameplay is insanely unique, nothing like it. Also, the 4 gb card isn't so bad, I'm carrying around Gravity Rush, FF tactics psp, Castelvania, velocity, and mutant blobs on my card right now, along with AC liberation as my physical game. That's a good bit of games to have on you at one time. It isn't like you have to have every game you own on the Vita at one time, I'm using my ps3 to copy games to my Vita. Tetsujin + 465d ago Doom article #2358234 on Sony BanBrother + 465d ago No that was the one 5 minutes ago. This one is number 2358235. PS-Analog + 465d ago You clearly didn't read the article. It's optimistic. Hicken + 465d ago With a name like "Vita's Last Hope," where do you expect that someone will see the optimism? xtreampro + 465d ago Sony is doomed just look at their financial situation. Their TV's and the PS3 were and are the cause of their problems, they may be recovering now from the PS3 launch but it made a massive dent on the company and it's still stings them today. Are you fanboys really this dumb or are you just trolling? It's not a conspiracy against Sony you lemons. #7.3 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(0) \| Disagree(6) \| Report \| Reply punisher99 + 464d ago " Their TV's and the PS3 were and are the cause of their problems" The Playstation brand as a whole has always been profitable for Sony, even in 2007 when they were losing at least 200$ on each PS3 console. #7.3.1 (Edited 464d ago ) \| Agree(2) \| Disagree(1) \| Report TheBatman_Fanatic + 465d ago The Vita will be fine, some people just don't look at history. It takes time for consoles to get a bunch of good games, every console has gone through this. MikeMyers + 465d ago I've said it before and I'll say it again, it was and is still far too early to be writing articles about its demise. Wait until after next years holiday season, then we will have a much better understanding how Vita is doing. Right now is the first holiday season so in 2013 we can expect more games since developers will then have more time with it. feeter + 465d ago I think next Holiday is too late... Vita sales need to pick up before developers fear they will not make money by making a game that will not sell well... MikeMyers + 463d ago This isn't like an iPhone that has stiff competition and gets replaced on an annual basis. Vita is a product that will be around for years and it takes time to build a fanbase. Nerdmaster + 465d ago But history also teaches us that lack of games and a high price can kill a console, even if such console is more technically advanced than the competition. Launching a console is never a certainty of success. And it's not because Sony is a big company that it won't pull the plug on Vita if it doesn't sell well. ginsunuva + 465d ago Ps3 says hi Knight_Crawler + 465d ago @Ginsu - Yes Sony says Hi but thats one of the reason they are in the red and have been rated down. Sony can not afford to bleed anymore money and what saved them with the PS3 was that the PS2 sold exremly well and Sony was using that money to support the PS3. I love Sony as much as you but at some point they have to make huge profit and quick becuase Gaikai was not free and Sony had to shell out millions. #8.2.2 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(5) \| Disagree(9) \| Report DiRtY + 465d ago History tells us that the Vita is selling slightly below Dreamcast numbers and we know how that turned out. The PS Vita is pretty much irrelevant already. Smartphones killed it before it even launched. FunAndGun + 465d ago lol, you comparing a smartphone to a Vita. Smartphones can't do what the Vita can do. If you think they are comparable then you must be one hellava casual gamer. Please show me a comparable game on Smartphones like Battle Royale or Gravity Rush. FPS with dual thumbsticks....hello!! #8.3.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(15) \| Disagree(3) \| Report Seraphemz + 465d ago You mentioning smartphones discredits you right there... Marquis_de_Sade + 465d ago You guys really are in denial if you believe smartphones aren't having an impact on PS Vita sales. I can think of few people who would be willing to carry a PS Vita in addition to a (more or less) essential smart phone. P.S. Now I come to think of it, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who owns a Vita. optimus + 465d ago I would throw in tablets moreso than smartphones. that is what people are flocking to given that you can get a tablet nowadaws for $150...hell, even the 3ds is struggling to keep up...I say if they want the vita to really sell they need to bring it down to $100 or less...not to mention that the games that are being developed are getting better and better with some reaching console quality levels...sure, you have virtual thumbsticks but most people are ok with it. #8.3.4 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(1) \| Disagree(4) \| Report Ju + 465d ago Virtual joysticks are no alternative if you can have the real thing. Tablet gaming might be an alternative, but I still prefer the Vita if I can get the game there. Vitas library is okay, but I don't understand why the reviews are dragging most of the games down. Wrong expectations I guess. I enjoy most of them. More is always appreciated. But I can't afford them all anyway. I'm quite ok with what I have. mcstorm + 465d ago I do hope the sales of the PSV pickup as im loving mine at the moment. I got NFS which I am really impressed with the Graphics and game play are very impressive and I also have All Stars for it and again this game impresses and having both PS3 and PSV versions I like how they feel the same on both consoles. DomceM + 465d ago I am getting one as a gift for Christmas. My girlfriend is getting one too so she could play with me. We are looking forward to playing some Mortal kombat and LBP together on the hand held. It will be very hard to care about the countless doom and gloom articles when I am enjoying the most advanced handheld in the world. Deusthousand + 465d ago You guys are crazy. Since having a vita I actually use it more than my ps3. And, if you guys think the only good game is Uncharted the you are really crazy. It has (arguably) the best Wipeout ever made. It got some good games for its first year. Its the same thing fools said about the PS3 first year out and some of those games turned out to be classics. cpayne93 + 465d ago Yeah I just can't put the thing down. Gravity Rush is one of the most unique experiences I've ever had in any game. Also, Unit 13 is an incredibly fun shooter which was knocked down for no story or competitive multiplayer, and Liberation is still a fun game. Uncharted was excellent. Wipeout is downloading right now so I would recommend the Vita to any gamer, and I would recommend ps + to anyone who wants to get one. You get more than your money's worth just from the three Vita games that come free. Williamson + 465d ago Gravity rush was such an amazing game for me too! Was kinda sad when I beat it since I never experienced a game like it, and the characters/story made me feel like i was watching an actual anime. vlonjati77 + 465d ago hi Deus,you right man wipeout is awesome,on vita,i had also wipeout HD on my ps3 's hdd and never played it before,i said i would try it and i discovered that its very good game.Im enjoying Gravity Rush very good game,tomorrow we are getting Bioshok 2 and havent finished all my free ps vita games yet .Sony I hate you ,you are milking my time :) Genuine-User + 465d ago 2013 looks good to me. So many quality games on all systems. Farsendor1 + 465d ago hoping to sale my vita for 150$ with mortal kombat and 8gb card Deusthousand + 465d ago I know someone that will buy it right now! cee773 + 465d ago I will buy it right now for $150 this will be the ultimate ps4 controller playstation mobile needs to become more like android play store/amazon app store get some student apps make it more than just a gaming device hell give it to Q let him trick it out for Bond lol. It has so much potential it could be used for everything It should have had the moniker It only does everything because in the end this device will mature in do time espcially when ps4 arrives I can see this device being the controller of chose on ps4 take everywhere game everywhere remotely from ps4 if it could be the ultimate ps3 controller it would sell just off that premise alone I wish they put GOW3 on the remote playlist they tease us with GOW1&2 via remote play #13.2 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(2) \| Disagree(1) \| Report \| Reply 1upgamer99 + 465d ago Just like Nintendo with 3DS(only its even worse for Vita) People are not spending that kind of money on a hand held. Nintendo had to drop the price almost right after launch. Then they gave the people who had bought the 3DS already a free game. I am not a handheld guy really, BUT I really like the Vita and the 3DS. Handhelds have come along way. If I were to pick up a handheld, I would go with 3DS though. Not because Vita sucks, but there are a vast amount of games for the DS and 3DS. DEATHxTHExKIDx + 465d ago 10 free GBA and 10 free NES games. Id say it was worth it too I didnt own a single one of those games before. HarvesterOSarow + 465d ago I have spent 40 hours on my Vita with Persona 4 Golden in the last two weeks. That's more than my console games and I just picked up Borderlands 2 and Halo 4, as well as 8 other games for 360/ps3/wii. Chalk it up to Atlus being awesome and Personas addictive nature, but all it takes is a few great games and hardware sells just fine. Same reason I haven't purchased a 3DS yet. Nintendo has to give me a few more games worth owning before I consider spending my money on the system. banjadude + 465d ago Can always trust Atlus/Xseed/NISA to pull through for the portable scene :) DEATHxTHExKIDx + 465d ago lol I have a 3DS and, I said the same thing about Vita. Sony has to give me a few more games I care enough about to buy on Vita. Its all personal preference really. SqueezedWeazel + 465d ago Persona 4 is insanely good :-) DrJones + 465d ago LBP Vita! WalterWJR + 465d ago VITA is BEAST - V2.00 is BOMB - best mobile browser (excluding flash support) don't listen to these sheep and buy 1. There are a lot of people who want to see it fail for all the wrong reasons! #17 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(19) \| Disagree(5) \| Report \| Reply Braid + 465d ago Best mobile browser among which devices, exactly? Are we including smart phones to your generalization as well? If so, that'd be Safari Mobile (iOS 6 version) as proved by benchmark tests. On topic: all that Vita needs right now is developer support from Japan. I'm hoping that Soul Sacrifice's release might stir some things up in Japan, and devs would come up and start programming great games that'd appeal to the Japanese audience, which would eventually sell more Vitas, and as the user base expands, the Western developers will start giving Vita the attention it deserves as well; resulting in gorgeous looking, home console quality games like AC Liberation and NFS Most Wanted. Oh, don't forget the first party support by the way: Sony needs to announce a God of War game, and an Infamous game ASAP, and then you'll see a dramatic increase in the sales numbers. The device is not even close to its "doom", it's a gorgeous piece of hardware and what it's capable of is evidenced by some great games, the promise and the potential is obviously there, and the future looks bright for it, but gamers are still waiting for more AAA titles which is kind of tiresome, Sony should just try to shorten this process as fast as they can, with new IPs and game announcements to be revealed in the near future in order to keep Vita owners at least excited, giving them a reason to hold on to their systems. Other than that, it's still the most capable handheld out there, and the most powerful mobile gaming device ever released in the history of gaming- you just can't go wrong with that. #17.1 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(6) \| Disagree(3) \| Report \| Reply tubers + 465d ago I recently got one and really liking it. The hardware itself is a beauty and felt great but the flushed PS, Start and Select buttons are annoying as f***. The interface was pretty fun too! I found it faster than the PS3's! I do still understand why it's selling poorly though. :( Farsendor1 + 465d ago i do have a vita and it really isn't that good MetalProxy + 465d ago Compared to what? If there is a better "handheld gaming device" out there let me know...and now I dont buy things because of sales. tiffac008 + 465d ago The Vita needs Japan. Currently there are more games being made and released on the PSP than on the Vita in the Land of the Rising Sun. Sony should probably come out and stop supporting the PSP and create some incentives to get 3rd party developers put their games on the Vita. The price will eventually go down, hopefully they permanently stick a memory card with every Vita but getting the games on the system is the key to its success. The ball is in Sony's court. The gaming industry is just waiting for them to make the right moves. #18 (Edited 465d ago ) \| Agree(3) \| Disagree(1) \| Report \| Reply ziggurcat + 465d ago well, it's december, so i guess they gotta get in as many doom articles by the end of the year. can't wait for the "top 10 sony doom articles of 2012" article to pop up here on N4G... air1 + 465d ago You fools need to stop acting like vita has great games out. I got the shit and regret it.. How the hell can sony have more studios than ms and nin combined yet not produce 1 or 2 must have games for vita. user4672848 465d ago \| Spam strigoi814 + 465d ago I wonder if someone can write an article about the Top 20 or Top 10 websites to write the doom article.. strigoi814 + 465d ago yesterday i saw a guy playing a shooting game on his phone..man i really was thinking..the guy has a huge hand and fingers he is almost covering the whole screen..and make me think..oh thank goodness i have a vita..with buttons gaming on the go will be awesome..just saying just saying the truth.. SillyBastid + 465d ago PSVITA needs a Dark/Demon Souls related game by 'FROM SOFTWARE'. IMHO that would be a system seller. I would love farming for souls and titanite shards on my commute home. This would also increase the sales of wrist attachments for the vita since everyone will want to throw it across the room with the difficult of the Dark/Demon Souls games.... oh how lovely it would be one2thr + 465d ago The Vita has plenty of games, I got 18 vita only games and have only beaten 5. And LBP and Sound Shapes, PSASBR, and many others have an endless replay value for what they provide. To me its just people making up piss poor excuses of not trying it out nor going out of their comfort zone. Heck, I played the Gravity Rush demo for about an hour before the actual game came out, and felt like it was worth giving a shot. And boy was that a great decision. Including other unmentioned titles as well. And am I the only person that took, "Dice" statement of bringing the "Frostbite 2.0" engine to mobile devices, code for "Yeah, we're looking to bring the Frostbite experience to the Vita" I can bet my PS Vita, that there will be some jaw dropping games announced at 2013's E3, GamesCom, Tokyo Game Show, etc. That'll make every non-Vita owner(s) envious of those that do own a Vita... Shame on people, trying to count Sony egg's before they hatch... Lex Luthor + 465d ago I've had my Vita for a good couple of months and during that time it has been gathering dust. Most of its games are just inferior ports of there PS3 counterparts. Games like fifa, uncharted, assassins creed, most wanted and so forth are superior on the PS3 and cheaper too. More Unique games are needed. Ju + 465d ago Makes me think you don't have neither. How are PS3 games "cheaper" if Vita games retail in fact a least $10 below console versions? Whitefox789 + 465d ago I remember reading that the 3DS was doomed, now after a price drop, and a Mario game. The doom articles disappeared... I'm continually wondering why people are "hoping" for consoles either mainstream or portable to end up with the fate of the Dreamcast[it was too soon :,( ]. Andrespetmonkey + 465d ago Writer here. Why do you think this is a doom article? It's quite optimistic. Maybe you should actually read it. vlonjati77 + 465d ago andre hahahah from the moment you or any writer coments and try to prove their point to the commenters loses credibility as a proffessional writer,did I just write professional MUAHAHAHA ,99% of the time I just get in the comment section just to have a laugh at stupid people arguing hahaha Whitefox789 + 465d ago Having the title stated as "Last Hope" is insinuating onto the reader that this is the PS Vita's last straw; if whatever X item that is PS Vita's salvation doesn't work then the system is doomed to fail. As a writer, you should know the title of the article should be in tuned with its content so if what you say is true and that is, it's quite an optimistic article then maybe you should have an optimistic title. Andrespetmonkey + 464d ago I still think 2013 is the last year the Vita has to prove itself, and the title reflects that. But the difference between this article a doom article is that I don't think the Vita is destined to fail as I'm very optimistic for it in 2013. The title is quite provocative, but people should still consider the actual content of the article, and I'm right in defending it. microgenius + 465d ago it just needs a pricedrop just like 3ds SDF Repellent + 465d ago Foreseen this on my crystal ball back in March. Sold it along with 4 games after I bought it and hardly used it for 3 weeks. I really like it but with Smartphones these days, the VITA needs some games that define the system, and sadly, there are none thus far. youssef3740 + 465d ago title should be author's last hope of being one « 1 2 » Add comment New stories Game Rentals Appear On The PlayStation Store 1m ago - MP1st - It seems that Sony may have sneaked in a new feature to the PlayStation Store. \| PS3 Feature: Eight of Gaming's Sleaziest Bachelors and Bachelorettes 1m ago - GameDynamo - "When someone asks you to give them the definition of “sleazy”, the notion of the co... \| PC Dark Souls II Review \| GameDynamo 2m ago - GameDynamo - "If you want to know what kind of game Dark Souls II is, one of the first achievemen... \| PS3 New Star Citizen Video and Artwork Show Revolutionary AI and the Making of the Avenger 6m ago - Star Citizen is already $200,000 past the 40 million goal achieved a couple days ago, and Cloud I... \| PC South Park: The Stick of Truth Review Titanfall Unlock Guide – The First 10 Levels	http://n4g.com/news/1131126/2013-ps-vitas-last-hope	<urn:uuid:71f4722b-bbb1-44dc-ab08-91020980a334>	en	0.955604	0.02529
User Score Mixed or average reviews- based on 495 Ratings User score distribution: Review this movie 1. Your Score 0 out of 10 Rate this: • 10 • 9 • 8 • 7 • 6 • 5 • 4 • 3 • 2 • 1 • 0 • 0 1. Submit 2. Check Spelling 1. Jan 21, 2014 The trailer made this film actually look like a summer blockbuster to watch out for, the problem was the casting, acting, writing, editing... pretty much the entire film despite the spectacular effects. Mark Strong was the shining light through this storm of terrible. 2. Jan 12, 2014 Last year, I rented Green Lantern from iTunes to watch on the Christmas holidays. I heard that it was a terrible movie, but I went ahead and watched it anyways. The movie was OK at the start, but then it just went downhill from there. The acting was kinda crap on certain areas, there was a slight overuse on CGI which made it look like the director was lazy and the story wasn't that interesting because I was left confused with certain parts of the movie. I do not think that the person who directed this movie did any good with it seeing as they had to switch directors during the making of this movie. It honestly could have done with more finer tuning in a lot of areas if this were to become a great movie. If you are a DC fan and you did not watch the movie, I suggest you don't watch it. You are better off getting the Green Lantern video game than watching this piece of crap. 3. Dec 8, 2013 This movie is so bad I don't even know where to begin. It has bad acting from everyone in this film. Its almost like the director said "act like you were on a school play, but worse". Second, the graphics were awful. They even put in a CG mask. Who does that? Third, the script was garbage. It folowed no real plot, which just went from bad to worse. Easily the worst superhero movie of all time. 4. Nov 12, 2013 This is one of the worst super hero movies I’ve seen. The plot is common (the hero masters his powers very quickly showing how great humans are), the characters follow the usual stereotypes (the man is irresponsible while the woman is perfectly balanced), the cgi are mediocre or worse (the planet of the Green Lanterns looks like a video game stage) and the action is not convincing (using a giant spring to throw a truck to the villain doesn’t look good). The villains are a huge evil cloud who drinks souls for breakfast and a potato-head who is depressed because daddy doesn't appreciate him. Lastly, there are many Green Lanterns in the universe but they are all useless except for the hero. At least the pacing is fast and the two protagonists, Reynolds and Lively, are pleasant to watch. 5. Sep 10, 2013 Not so bad. I liked it and I would like to see it for a second time. Do not listen to the critics and watch it!!! You will enjoy it. One of the most underrated films ever. 6. Aug 24, 2013 [2.1] I don't think I'm lying when I say this is the worst movie I've ever seen. It's uninteresting, incredibly unoriginal, and extremely painful. I don't understand how a group of adults, still, in the 2000's can make something so poorly written, and such a mess. For fk's sake, good movies can make money too! 7. Aug 16, 2013 I wonder why i still want to watch this movie. maybe it's just too infamous. for me reynolds still can fit to physical qualification of Jordan. And yes, i like the likeness of Sinestro. But everything just...can be thrown out of the movie. The story...doesn't not engaging at all. All the corps doing nothing just making lamp through the space...just Hal...even Hal action sequences also feels boring and inconsistent. some of the battle he's weak, but he beat Parallax himself. Poor Hal, poor Sinestro, they deserve better. Expand 8. Aug 2, 2013 Green Lantern isn't a dissapointment, as I saw its trailers and promotions, I thought it looked like absolute tripe, the many bad reviews made me think that for sure; anyway, it isn't a dissapointment, it's a surprise it's better than I thought it looked. I would have never even considered watching it if I wasn't given it as a joke bithday present from my sister. It's the a silly film in its scenarios and action, but it's super serious with its kinda sucky story line and dialogue. Hal Jordan the main hero barely even goes to the Green Lantern society and when he does, his comrades complain about how 'young' his race is and how stupid he is. The effects and CGI for the most part are overdone and look cheap, but on occaisions, they look pretty good but not impressive by any stretch. Character building/developement is lacking and the relationship between the villian and hero doesn't really develop. The action of the film is silly and cheap, and the film ends quickly and puts a sudden end to the growing climax. The acting, on the otherhand, is okay, not impressive but good enough. The Green Lantern is a surprisingly mediocre-ish silly/serious action film that does nothing more for the audience than kind of excite them a bit at the climax (that ends suddenly). So I give this film a... 51/100! 9. Aug 1, 2013 Though lacking the sophisticated and storytelling of past superhero movies such as Spider-Man 2, The Dark Knight, or even Iron Man, and the film might have went by a little fast at times, Green Lantern still manages to dazzle on a visual level, has a plot that manages to stay together all the way through and Ryan Reynolds put on a funny performance as Hal Jordan, in all making this superhero movie another win for DC Comics. Expand 10. Jul 31, 2013 Boring. Very boring. I was never much of a Green Lantern fan, but I still thought he was an interesting character. I was excited for this move to an extent. However, the film is your standard origin story and doesn't do anything unique or even anything special like say... Batman Begins. To take a character like the Green Lantern and to transform into a mediocre, two dimensional hero is... wrong. It's not the worst super hero film. Far, and I mean FAR from it. It's just a mediocre film. A boring one too. Expand 11. Jul 24, 2013 this movie of green lantern was a very deception for me . Ryan Reynolds has the potential to be the green lantern but the movie is turning to the ridiculous the scenario would have been very well but it was badly exploited 12. egg Jul 12, 2013 Although people have been heavily criticizing this film for its lack of quality and it seeming rushed, both of which I agree with, they had something in there which could have developed into a much better movie. It was entertaining, on the whole, and I found it managed to keep me interested for a long time. I'd like to think myself as a DC geek, and I found myself impressed at how well they'd managed to keep to the original stories. I think the critics are complaining primarily because it couldn't get anywhere close to the Dark Knight, which is a very hard act to follow for DC. Anyone remember Batman Begins? It was good, but nothing special, however it led on to one of the greatest films ever made, in most people's opinion. I think that if Warner Bros. wade through all of the bad reception and decide that they will continue on this, they will be able to produce a far better movie for the sequel. Ignore the critics. Rent it if you can and see what you think. 13. Jul 1, 2013 We can work with this. Don't do it again. There is no reason to reboot it. There is a decent world created, as long as the script and effects aren't as shoddy, then everything will be fine. No more floating poo monsters next time please. 14. Jun 28, 2013 Going into this movie, I didn't expect much. But what I watched was a disaster! Probably the worst super hero movie made!? The story was typical, the cgi was awful! I felt like I was watching cut scenes from PS2 game, the movie felt rushed. Avoid! 15. Jun 25, 2013 There have been better superhero movies, MUCH better. But this is still a good superhero film that'll make the comic faithful excited and happy. I liked this movie, there's just something missing, but I really do think this movie was good. 16. Jun 13, 2013 Reviews were mixed for Green Lantern although all the trailers I viewed indicated that it would be a movie that I would thoroughly enjoy. And I was right. From beginning to end Green Lantern is a special effects extravaganza and an entertaining origin story. I generally do not care for origin stories because being familiar with a superhero character means I already know the story and would rather see something new. With Green Lantern we really have the best of both worlds. The movie does not delay in placing the ring of power on the finger of Hal Jordan. From there we watch as Hal struggles to meet the burden placed upon him while the Earth is threatened by Parallax one of the Guardians of Oa that has turned evil. There is good character development with Hal who is depicted as being a womanizing and brash pilot to a responsible superhero. The CGI is top notch and the depiction of Oa, the guardians and many of the other aliens that are a part of the intergalactic Green Lantern Corps rivals the special effects seen in the more recent Star Wars prequels. The relationship between Hal and Dr. Hector Hammond, who is infected with the yellow power of Parallax, could have been better fleshed out and brought to more depth. The same could be said with Hal's relationship with Carol Farris. There seems to be little justification for the affection between the two given the characterization of their earlier antagonism toward one another. Parallax has a habit of easily defeating the other Green Lanterns in the Corps and after the Guardians of Oa refuse to help him, with the encouragement of Sinestro a future supervillian, Hal faces the Corps most notorious villain alone. I won't give away the ending and although origin stories can be predictable, as this one certainly is, the story is told in a manner which is exciting and entertaining. I am unabashedly a CGI junkie and this movie delivers on that account. Therefore combined with a story that is pretty riveting despite its predictability along with great eye candy The Green Lantern is a good introduction for this underdog and little known superhero. 17. Jun 13, 2013 The movie wasn't all that great. It started all great at the top of the mountain but it went down on the bumpy side of the mountain (if you know what i mean). The CGI was okay, it was obvious some times, but at some point of the film you feel like the film isn't really good. An at sometimes you feel like you wasted 10 bucks! The movie was alright, I mean i don"t think its a must see movie. Overall 5.8 out of 10 Expand 18. Jun 11, 2013 This movie is being trashed by critics, they just hate it, but this is my opinion. I did have fun with the movie, I thought it was very well acted, and it had a very engrossing buildup, so I liked that part of the movie, but after the rising action reaches the climax, well, there is no climax. The movie seemed a bit anti-climactic when it ends. It just seemed as if they lost all their funding and they just wanted to end it a little to quickly, it seemed as if they ended it just too fast, and that brought down the quality of the movie, but I guess its okay. Expand 19. Jun 2, 2013 In an era of the comic book movie this is one of the worst. A lot of pointless story telling mixed with an unimportant villain and some mediocre acting makes you hope they just cancel any sequel plans. 20. May 16, 2013 When launched the Green Lantern thought would be a cool movie, but it was not, for me it became a rich experience weak and exploited. Not worth it to have spent money for nothing in a disposable product. 21. Apr 18, 2013 Of all the second-rate comic book movies that has occupied most of 2011's summer, "Green Lantern" is the only one of its crowd without a saving grace. "Captain America: The First Avenger" saw a true hero in Steve Rogers, giving as much attention to his human character as with his superhuman attributes. It was the goofy playfulness of "Thor" that made its overall silliness acceptable. "X-Men: First Class" was a prequel that founded itself on prior knowledge, instead of avoiding it. "Green Lantern" doesn't have a singular thing that could make it more than what we already expect. It fulfills the requisites of the superhero genre, then immediately stops trying. Millions of years ago, long before the nuisance of 3-D, an assembly of aliens called the Guardians formed an intergalactic peace-keeping organization. Each member, called a Green Lantern, was assigned to protect one of the 3,600 sectors of the universe. We're not sure how many planets or galaxies each sector covers, but we trust the judgment of the Guardians. With the whole universe accounted for, the blue, big headed Guardians have decided to spend the rest of their immortal lives in a planet called Oa. This peace is interrupted when a colossal, evil force named Parallax figured that it would be real evil if he started to eat planets; Earth and Oa are on his menu. Meanwhile, on Earth, our central human characters who coincidentally all have daddy issues, are introduced. Hal Jordan is a reckless test pilot whose actions on the job are always questioned by his authorities. When a severely injured Green Lantern crash lands on our planet, Hal is the one chosen by the Lantern's ring as his replacement. His duty later lands him in Oa, where he meets the Guardians. Plot details are discussed, obvious questions are asked, and shallow dilemmas are regarded with undeserved seriousness as a delay for the obligatory climactic confrontation, like taking 90 minutes to get to a destination 60 minutes away. Read more here: 22. Mar 30, 2013 why would anyone think that this is a good movie idea is beyond me even so the Execution is ridiculous how can someone is Exposed to something that can travel him anywhere in the universe never act surprised like it was happening to him his entire life this movie don't make any sense in the slightest. 23. Jan 25, 2013 above average movie tells the story of the green lantern life and all ryan reynolds acting was decent not epic nor very bad and the other actors are decent also the movie all put together is above average i mean its watchable not that bad and i give it 6/10 24. Jan 12, 2013 I don't think I've ever seen so much effort put in to a movie for such mediocre return. What I mean to say is that almost every scene of this movie is absolutely beautiful. Seriously breathtaking visuals. And yet, it's so overwhelmingly boring. What an odd dichotomy. Worth watching if for nothing else than a study in how important it is to have a strong script before you pour so much money and talent in to a project like this. Expand 25. Jan 8, 2013 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. Overall, Green Lantern is an ok film. There Expand 26. Dec 30, 2012 Bad movie in general. The story line was dumb and bad acting. I dont mean to offend any comic book movie lovers but this was the worst comic book movie Ive seen in a long time. And what kind of a mask only covers you eyes??? 27. Dec 7, 2012 Critics were way to harsh on this one, but the only reason it was ripped apart by critics is because they compared it to X-Men First Class and Thor. This film is actually really hard for me to rate. There are definitely things that needed to be better in the plot and story, but I can't pinpoint what exactly needed to change. I think the main problem with the film is that it just didn't mesh together, especially the beginning. The story just didn't settle all the way is a good way to explain it. Also, the film didn't tap into emotion, which it really needed to, especially since it's a crucial idea to the character and story. I liked that cast a lot more than I thought I would. I was hesitant about Ryan Reynolds, but he was great here and completely likable, as were Peter Saarsgard and Mark Strong. Blake Lively is also really nice (and hot). The fighting was entertaining and the CGI was pretty good, definitely nothing special. Overall, Green Lantern is an average entertaining Superhero film that works. I recommend it! 28. Dec 2, 2012 This film is awful. I was really looking forward to watching It and I was really disappointed. The film is slow paced and the fight scenes were abysmal. A film I do not recommend at all. 29. Nov 24, 2012 Green Lantern is a decent movie that could have been better but is still a decent movie. Plot: Hal Jordan (Ryan Reynolds) has a great relationship with his father Martin Jordan who is a pilot. When he watches his father fail a takeoff he also witnessess his father die from the jet's explosion. When he grows up he is judged by many for being extremely ** and rebellious which is a form of courage. Meanwhile a Green Lantern, Abin Sur part of the Green Lantern Corps; an army of different specied aliens who have sworn to protect the world with courage converted into energy by rings which possess the green essence of willpower, has failed to re imprison the guardian of the yellow esscence of hate, Parallax. As a last hope he escapes to Earth where Jordan stumbles upon him and inherits his ring. After a series of events Jordan is a trainee in the Green Lantern Corps and swears to use the green essence of willpower as a means of preserving peace. My opinion: If your interested in Green Lantern I would watch this movie, if not this movie is still good at delivering the origin story but compared to other super hero movies does not compete. Expand 30. Nov 15, 2012 It's not treacherous, but it's laughable, and it doesn't intend to be. 31. Oct 23, 2012 A guilty pleasure. This was the most disappointing comic book movie I ever saw at the movies, that and Spiderman 3. How could they do this to Green Lantern? They have a superhero who travels into space all the time and is practically Star Wars material. WHAT DO THEY DO?!?!?!?! MAKE A MEDIOCRE MOVIE OUT OF AN AWESOME CHARACTER!!!! .... What did you expect? For it to be good? This movie is a so-bad-it's-good movie. I was hoping for a "Dark Knight in space" epic, but what we got was an over-produced, poorly written and terribly acted piece of $200 million dollars that went straight down the box office toilet. What a shame. Now the guilty pleasures of this movie: Well this is Green Lantern's motion-picture debut, just not a great one. Some of the scenes are entertaining but HEctor Hammond is so bloody annoying you want to staple his mouth shut for the rest of the movie. His screaming is unbelievably annoying. It's like listening to a podcast of a baby crying 24/7 and never stopping once. So pointless. As for the plot, the whole thing is a mess and it messes with Green Lantern's mythological background quite a bit. Parallax was never an entity trapped in the ring. Instead he was a corrupted Guardian who wanted to use the power for himself. Hell, if that wasn't enough, the imagination that Hal uses for the ring is just as limited as the writer's abilities to write awkward dialogue let alone stronger plot and character development. Thankfully we got The Dark Knight Rises from Warner Brothers and DC Entertainment so we can forgive them for Green Lantern. 32. Aug 29, 2012 33. Aug 25, 2012 I had never heard of the Green Lantern before The Big Bang Theory but now I know why. This film is awful and the whole idea of the character and the universe from which it derives is awful. I know the filmmakers clearly didn't come up with the character's powers but how did this comic ever become successful? The film itself was below par, Ryan Reynolds did his best but no one else can really say they did anything positive in this film (or at least anything of note). Do not watch this film. Expand 34. Aug 12, 2012 Disappointing. While the cast does a generally good job with what they are given, and the visual effects are pretty good, the dialogue is poorly written, the pacing sometimes suffers, and the movie tries to do too much in too short of time. 35. Aug 9, 2012 Potential is the first thing that comes to mind after watching the green lantern. The movie itself could become a bit boring at times had some decent action sequences though and its just an origin story that never really got too exciting. I feel that they should in fact make a Green Lantern 2 though because ryan reynolds does seem to have what it takes to place the green lantern and would play well into the justice league mold. Expand 36. Jun 24, 2012 In no way is "Green Lantern" a hit or superb in its nature, but it isn't awful. Watching, you can find many errors script wise and casting wise, but visually this film is pretty creative. That and some of the comedic elemnts done by Renolds and the ensemble either with thim or at thim make this film not exactly a complete waste of time and somewhat enjoyable. Try not to laugh to hard at the extras and supporting character's choices during the serious scenes, because you might hurt a die-hard Renolds movie fan while they are watching the film. You will. I promise. Just keep it contained. Leaving the theatre with your overpriced ticket and theatre food, I'm sure that you'll look back at the last 105 minutes of your not as a complete waste of time. You'll find at least one thing to happily talk about with your friends. That being against or for the film Expand 37. Jun 14, 2012 Green Lantern is laughable because the hero is neither charismatic nor heroic he is just this human being with a lot of special effects on him. The special effects are awful and the acting is terrible. This a severe disappointment. I give this movie 16%. I say this is the worse superhero movie, ever! 38. May 24, 2012 Being a HUGE Green Lantern fan, I have to knock this film around some. This movie is an origin story that struggles to give a story that really matters to the audience. It wasn't a failure in execution, but content. I felt that the acting was enjoyable; nobody seemed tired or tasked to add life the characters. The scenery and CG were dazzling, and the musical score was spot on (still looking for the "Green Lantern" theme though). Much of the film seemed to skim over things, like characters and plot points, but I'm guessing that the filmmakers were expecting to make a sequel to follow-up on those. On the whole, the question really becomes "How do you make a movie about an intergalactic superhero/cop without turning the audience off with disbelief?" I could think of a few, but then that wouldn't be critiquing, just making excuses for this film. Expand 39. May 17, 2012 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. I don't like sci-fi movies, Green Lantern is better like comics. I want see different actors/actress in this movie. I like Ryan Reynolds, but this role isn't for him. Expand 40. May 16, 2012 While all the happenings in space is visually jaw-dropping and exciting, Hal Jordan's life on Earth is slow, unfunny and uninteresting. Main characters lack development and vital plot points are practically breezed over. This is a fault of the movie's short length, bearing under two hours long. Not bad, but you could spend your time on better stuff out right now. 41. May 13, 2012 Pretty good movie but it seemed short. I loved the dialog and action, but it just seemed to go by really quick and was surprised how fast the final battle happened. 42. May 12, 2012 Ryan Reynolds dons a green energy suit and defends Earth from outer space giant alien heads and a crazy scientist? Okay. Not perfect. But its fun all the same, and what superhero movie isn't? 43. May 3, 2012 It's not NEARLY as bad as most critics claim it to be. The action was quite good, but from a comic fan's perspective, there really wasn't that much of a focus on the world of the Green Lantern Corp. It's a very Hal Jordan focused origin story. I also did not like the female lead actor's acting. Not the perfect movie, but it was worth an afternoon and 10 bucks. 44. Mar 28, 2012 This movie is corn-al-icious, and was painful to watch. It was easily one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Do not watch this, it is terrible, and you could probably AVP more. 45. Mar 26, 2012 Story and plot wise the movie is pretty darn bland and very random. Events sort of just happen without any reasonable explanation or emotional connection. For instance in the beginning a Green Lantern dies, who is supposedly a great comrade to another Lantern, we no nothing about him and the other Lantern with a straight face is grieving for the lose. The event is also very confusing because we really donâ Expand 46. Mar 17, 2012 Basically this is a movie about a guy who finds a ring and saves the world. That story dates back to like 1930 when comics first came out. This movie is filled with cheesy special effects and dated story. I was very surprised to find this movie was a total bomb. This movie is just terrible and I didn't like it at all. 47. Mar 7, 2012 One of the biggest deceptions, I like this film, but in a part I understand the critics, this film have much mistakes, the performance of the good looking Ryan Reynolds is terrible, the only great performance is of Blake Lively, other mistakes are the abuse of the CGi, the bad use of all the Green Lanterns, I wait some like First Flight, or a new The Dark Knight, but is a biggest deception. The Movie is funny for the people that don't meet much about the character, and the only thing that wanna watch are big effects, explosions and only. Expand 48. Mar 7, 2012 I honestly expected it to be terrible but I am suprised that I actually enjoyed it. Ryan Reynolds is a solid lead, The rest of the cast is solid as well. Enjoyable action scenes as well. However, It doesnt do a good enough job at explaining the Green Lantern story. It can be confusing, Especially to a person new to the series (like myself). Still, Its an enjoyable film none the less. 49. Feb 10, 2012 At this point, it's kind of just another comic book story made into a movie. It's not that bad, but I can't say it's that good either. I mean, what did the people behind the movie expect people were going to think? It's another modern day guy who finds super powers and has to save the universe, probably the five hundredth time this has happened at this point in the DC Comics Universe. I did enjoy watching it, but it still should have been better. Rent it, but don't buy it. Expand 50. Jan 22, 2012 Ryan Reynolds has officially ruined his career with this movie. Until this point, he'd been a great comedy actor with some crossovers into drama & action. The only movies of the comic-book inspired superhero genre worth seeing, in my opinion, are the revived Batman series of movies. Even those are getting a bit campy with Bale's overly-dramatic angry whisper-delivered dialogue. Hollywood needs new creative minds badly. Expand 51. Jan 20, 2012 Hollywood have done it again! This movie felt rushed from beginning to end. Plot wholes everywere and as a comic book nerd i felt raped after watching this movie. Did they even READ the comics? This is just as bad as AVP & AVP:R. This movie had a BIG budget and where did all the money go? If you are a comic book fan and like marvel/dc movies i advice you NOT to spend money for this pile of shi. Go and watch Captain America or even Ben Afflecks DareDevil. Expand 52. Dec 21, 2011 The main problem with Green Lantern isn't that it's a bad movie. On the contrary, the vast majority of its elements work on film. The effects are superb, and different enough from the mainstream to stand out. The actors are also good in the vast majority - Ryan Reynolds is effortlessly likeable as our titular hero, and Mark Strong is as good as he always is as the fantastically morally complex Sinestro. The action is also extremely well-handled, with director Martin Campbell proving himself to be just as competent at handling special effects-driven filmic spectacle as with the practicall (as he demonstrated in Goldeneye and Casino Royale). The film fails in main because of its exceedingly daft source material. The Green Lantern comics were stupid even by super hero standards, and it would be nigh-on impossible for even the most accomplished director to bring this universe to the big screen with a completely straight face. Luckily, Campbell doesn't take things too seriously, and this results in one of the film's most pleasing moments, when love interest Carol Ferris (Blake Lively) comments on the ridiculousness of people not guessing Green Lantern's identity simply because they "can't see his cheekbones". Even this self-awareness can't save the film as a whole - the ideas behind this stupid universe aren't consistent or fully developed, and visual creativity doesn't stop Green Lantern from being ridiculous. The acting talent of such masters as Tim Robbins is almost completely wasted, and his relationship with estranged son Hector Hammond (Peter Sarsgaard) is woefully under-developed. Despite these obvious failings, Green Lantern remains an entertaining diversion, and a decent, if fairly hollow super hero film. Perhaps if a sequel is made, this intriguing intergalactic cop can truly step into the light... Expand 53. Dec 19, 2011 Some parts were just too long and drawn out. The movie fails to capture what a true green lantern movie should have been about. Just when the movie starts to get good, its already reached the end. 54. Dec 15, 2011 Despite the fact that "Green Lantern" is getting pummeled by critics, the movie itself isn't that bad. In fact, it does something that no other comic book movie has done yet this year. It takes its time introducing the characters. This was the first movie where I didn't feel like I was being rushed along from one plot point to the next. Before getting into the main story, we learn that Hal Jordan (Ryan Reynolds) is a brash fighter pilot who has the potential to be something greater, and that his friendship with the beautiful Carol Ferris (Blake Lively) is a complicated one. In short, the screenwriters do a nice job of laying the foundation to potentially expand the depth of the characters as the movie progresses. But the problem that arises is that the writers don't do anything more past that point. They fail to take any of the characters in interesting directions. Sure, the characters change as they are supposed to, but every choice that's made is something we've seen in other films. The action is filmed well, but the action scenes themselves don't do anything to lift you out of your seat. This leaves us with only the storyline to rely upon. And what a lame storyline it is. Apparently in the universe, there's green energy which is a manifestation of willpower and yellow energy which encompasses fear. Also, floating around in the universe is a giant octopus with a computer animated face named Parallax. The mythology of "Green Lantern" is hokey, and when there's nothing else to suck us in (no compelling characters or action set pieces), the mythology sticks out like a really ugly blemish. I feel bad for Ryan Reynolds. He really does all he can with the role, and he shows that he can be a competent leading man. But the problem is that the movie surrounding his performance is so mediocre that he can do nothing to save it. Skip this and wait for a summer movie that brings the excitement. Expand 55. Dec 13, 2011 This movie won't make you think however it has a solid story and solid acting. If you are a fan of the comic book this is a must see, for the general public overall its not a bad movie. 56. Dec 13, 2011 57. Dec 10, 2011 58. Nov 28, 2011 Not as bad as everyone is saying. Some of the CGI is very very questionable but besides that the story of the Hal Jordan is told fairly well. I like d the action sequences and how the power of the ring was explained and used. 59. Nov 18, 2011 Green Lantern is not the best superhero movie of 2011, but it does have some cool action and an occasional sense of humor. The story is kind of a mess. 60. Nov 18, 2011 This movie is very watchable and entertaining for a superhero movie. The special effects look expensive and the acting (esp Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively) is decent. It makes for an excellent eye-candy piece, especially if you buy it on blu-ray. However, as a faithful interpretation of the Green Lantern lore, I found the movie to be merely okay. The director obviously knew where the characters are generally going to end up. The teaser at the end is very accurate of the character's (Sinestro) fate. However, the movie focuses too much on the character of Hal Jordan and not enough on any of the other green lantern corps members. We never truly get into Sinestro's head or realize what a brute badass Kilowog really is. Overall, I thought Green Lantern First Flight was a far more enjoyable origin story for Green Lantern, even though it is animated. I think 10-20 years down the line when they make a new Green Lantern, (assuming this one does not receive a sequel) this version will be the equivalent to tim burton's Batman being compared to chis nolan's Batman Begins. Expand 61. Nov 11, 2011 This is a great example of a non-Nolan DC film, it stinks and its quite horrid. Superman Returns also joins this list. So therefore, the High Council of Film should pass legislation that Christopher Nolan should do all the films for DC Comics, even as a producer, because he'd still have power over the film. These are just my comments, but below is the review. It nearly induced me into a deep sleep. I don't know why. Oh I know! It was very bland, it had a weak, formulaic script, overacting (yes, Ryan Reynolds growls like Batman on one part), convulted direction, and some very crappy CGI. I didn't watch this in 3D, but I was probably smart not to. Pretty much, this was a terrible movie that was rushed and just was released at the wrong time. I say, they should have put more emphasis on the script than the CGI. It was pretty funny though how Tim Robbins' character looked almost like Glenn Beck. 62. Nov 1, 2011 Setting expectations as side, Green Lantern was weak, clumsy and embarrassing for DC comics. Ryan Reynolds is a decent actor and the only thing that held this movie from being a total disaster. The screenplay and story were a mess full of filler and threads that go nowhere, the action scenes were mostly lame. Parts of the special effects were OK, but most were overdone and made the movie look like an unbelievable green cartoon mashed with real life. The film makers also seem confused to what has made marvel comic movies so successful recently. This movie did not need to be made and does not need to be watched. Pass Expand 63. Oct 25, 2011 I have never imagine that a Super Hero film can be this Boring. Seeing Green Lantern makes me wanna say to DC "Please stop making movie except for Batman " . Ryan was good but not perfect ! Blake's character didn't have much to do as well as most of the characters . Spatial Effect was good and only the positive thing in this film . Movie's starting was okay but ending sucked ! DC should take a look at the Marvel Movies and learn how to make a Super Hero movie with Action , Adventure , Funny and well "Not Boring" . I was really looking forward for this movie and now i wish it was never been made ! Hard they are talking about a Sequel . I say "Good Luck losing money" . Expand 64. Oct 25, 2011 This movie was OK! It wasn't great, but it was just ok. The first scene, where you see his father die, was terrible. I mean, come on! This is an action movie, not a drama/sad movie. The movie was way too focused on Hal Jordan's earth and his life, and not the outer space (which is the meaning of the movie). We wanna see how he defeats the giant monster step by step, and not only one hit! It takes way to fast for Hal to defeat the monster, haven't you realized that? And the monster is so ugly and slow and just.... boring. I'm sure tons of you guys are thinking "Ah, I can make such a better movie, If i was the director i would have made a masterpiece." - Jason 65. Oct 24, 2011 It's a movie when you see you say: there is no shine in the movie and also has another problem the Senator Hammond has a horrible especial effect. So i have to say the movie is more or less 66. Oct 19, 2011 If Blake Lively is the person that has to be saved all the time then there isn't much saving involved in the film. But with all the superhero films I have watched in my life it is definitely up there. 67. Oct 19, 2011 I can sum it up in a word "Disappointing". The entire start to the movie, from the badly v.o back story, to the whole fighter pilot scenes, set the movie up really badly. There was no substance, nothing clever, and overall just anti-climactic. Each year, comic book heroes are coming to life nd getting better and better, but unfortunately this one missed the mark entirely. 68. Oct 15, 2011 Based on the DC comic character of the same name, Martin Campbellâ 69. Oct 11, 2011 Is incredible how in a movie that lasting 2 hours, nothing happens, this movie is boring and lifeless, 2 villains and both didnÂ´t scare you or make you feel danger, one super hero that is more busy flirting with a girl than actually saving the world, and even worst a nonsense story 70. Oct 3, 2011 Fun superhero movie, very true to the original comic book and great (corny but cool) comic book stories of its heyday. I read this series as a kid and found this movie to be a worthy rendition --and a blast to watch. There's nothing deep in this movie, just like the books that originated it, and thank goodness. Performances are good! Dialog could have used a little spruce but it served. 71. Oct 3, 2011 72. Sep 28, 2011 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. I actually liked the movie more then the reviews led me to believe I would. I mean... you start out with the big fighter dogfight in the skies and I was like, yeah hey, this is uh, this is alright. It kinda reminded me of the F22 dogfight in Iron Man, and that was a pretty good high-flying action scene. Well here, they're also flying around in fighter planes and it's all cool looking and kinetic. I enjoyed that. There was a lot of fear about Blake Lively and her performance as Carol Ferris, since the first trailer had that infamously halting line reading, "Hal! This test today! It's! Important!" So yeah, I was very leery of her. But... actually, in the full finished product, I thought she gave an adequate performance. It was okay, it was alright. It wasn't that bad, actually. Her line readings were not like fingernails being scraped across a chalkboard. It wasn't a great performance, but I found that she did fine with the material she was given... which wasn't much. It wasn't compelling stuff, but she did look good delivering it. Maybe that's partially blinding me, I dunno. I'll admit, I find her pretty damn attractive. She's one of those women who's able to look equally as sexy with her natural blonde hair or with dark brunette, which she had here. Right now, I feel like she gave a better accounting of herself then Katie Holmes did in Batman Begins. Not great, but not terrible either. The stuff on Oa with Sinestro was done really well. I was pleased with Mark Strong's depiction, it felt pitch perfect. He's just conjuring up two or three swords at a time and completely schooling Hal with this training sequence and it's like yeah, that's exactly how Sinestro would behave, he doesn't have time for this upstart rookie. If you gather up 3600 of the bravest and most determined beings in the universe... of course they're all going to be somewhat elitist and headstrong and have no patience for the newbies. But then you keep watching and the film starts letting you down more and more. The editing is a complete trainwreck and just makes no sense at times. Sinestro leads a taskforce of Lanterns to battle Parallax and they predictably get massacred. That didn't really bother me, but the editing for that sequence was just atrocious. We see them try and net Parallax and he breaks free and begins to suck the fear out of two or three Lanterns and... that's it, cut to Sinestro explaining their defeat to the Guardians back on Oa. Now... why the sudden cut? Why not show us a bit more? Hell, why not actually show us why Sinestro didn't get murderized along with the rest of the lanterns? Parallax just somehow decided to spare Sinestro? He just fed on a couple, got full, and slithered away? Did Sinestro pull any nifty maneuvers or tricks to escape with his life? What the hell happened there? The movie's only about 1 hour and 45 minutes along, so why the * is it chopped down so damn much? There could've been much more shown to us. Of course, another example is the confrontation with Hector Hammond in the secret lab. Now, he's just taken out a bunch of security guards, murdered one scientist, knocked out Amanda Waller (Angela Bassett in a real waste of a role here, she didn't do much of anything. I suspect she's not dead because Waller is a big fixture in the DCU and they'd want her back in other films), and barbequed his father Tim Robbins (who for some reason looked even younger then his son Peter Sarsgaard). This is pretty serious stuff here. And yet he just gets to escape at the end of the scene. Why didn't Hal go and pursue him? The man has a giant head and doesn't seem to have any super speed, so it looked like it'd be easy to catch him. Yet nothing happens. We next see Hammond writhing around on his bed, apparently. Nobody thought to check his residence? There'd probably be a massive search for an alien-infected man responsible for the murder of a US Senator, right? And the design for Parallax was so bad, Jesus Christ. I was kinda open to anything they'd come up with. I mean, in the books, it's just this yellow space insect thing which tends to look a bit silly and you know, why would the embodiment of fear look like a giant bug? It's sorta silly, so I was alright with changing that aspect of it. There's all sorts of different places you could go with that, in order to make it more palateable for audiences. But they for whatever reason decided to go with... a big dark, murky cloud with tentacles and a silly giant head that reminded me of the Martians from "Mars Attacks!" I dunno, I was not feeling that creative decision at all, it looked like a pile of crap. And didn't we learn that giant space clouds make for ** villains, from that second Fantastic Four movie? Why revisit that territory? Given the choice between an octopus cloud and a giant insect... I think I'd probably take the giant insect. 73. Sep 27, 2011 this film has really bad effects,the story sucks Nli good point is ryan reynolds who does a good job as hal jordan Nd some points of d film s entertaining 74. Sep 23, 2011 This was not a well conceived film. So much has already been said about how this that I'm not going to pile more on. Instead I'm writing this as a request to future superhero filmmakers. Please try a little harder to take into consideration the age of the mythology. Green Lantern has been around since 1940. That's a full 70 years before anyone thought to put the story on film. That means that if his first fans are still alive, they're in their 80's. Have a little more respect for people's memories. Spend some time on the writing, put aside the egos and let the writers who have talent and are fans of the subject weave the reasons for that love into the story. There are thousands of superhero stories out there and most of them are rightfully forgotten, so the few that stand the test of time have something that has been speaking to people for generations. Find that truth and make it the foundation of every thing the story communicates. And THEN make it look really cool. Also, yes there is subtext, but these are also comics not Shakespeare, so you don't have to bury that too deep. Story first, then merchandising opportunities or whatever else the suits are making you squeeze into it. This film was clearly made for junior high kids, and that's about money, we get it. But throw us 30, 40, 50, and 60 year olds a bone. We want to be transported too. Expand 75. Sep 11, 2011 76. Sep 10, 2011 Equipped with poor CGI, decent performance from Ryan Reynolds, and a story that cannot hold itself in one whole piece, "Green Lantern" acknowledges me of DC's prominent failure to move its loved superhero into the big screen. 77. Sep 4, 2011 78. Aug 31, 2011 It's a good movie. It's got action, sci-fi, a beautiful woman, a charming male actor, a super hero... The movie's problems lie on its dialogues; and on its obviousness. But it's definitely not a Elektra. It's more like a Hulk 2. 79. TTT Aug 29, 2011 In this film you can say that the plot is awful and has serious shortcomings ... some parts are nice, but not appreciable. We say that the work would have been better. The Italian dubbing, because I come from 'Italy is very poor compared to the Italian tradition of dubbing would say that is bad in comparison. As soon as I saw him I was not happy ... 80. Aug 25, 2011 In brightest day, in blackest night, no crappy movies shall escape my sight. Let brain-dead hacks who cannot write, beware this critic... (referring to Green Lantern) IT'S NO DARK KNIGHT! No indeed. Green Lantern is far, far away from The Dark Knight. 81. Aug 23, 2011 Certains m'avaient critiquÃ© du fait que je donnais mon avis (pÃ©joratif) sur le film Ã partir de la premiÃ¨re bande-annonce, qu'il fallait que j'attende le rendu final. Et je dois bien avouer qu'ils avaient raison : Green Lantern est bien pire de ce Ã quoi je m'attendais. Avec un humour qui tombe toujours Ã plat, un rendu visuel trop poussÃ© Ã en Ãªtre moche Ã regarder et des acteurs pitoyables, s'ajoutent un manque de punch incroyable (la puissance d'un pouvoir sans limite n'est vraiment pas prÃ©sente) et tout un tas de clichÃ©s incroyables des films du genre. En somme, Green Lantern ne rÃ©volutionne pas les films de super-hÃ©ros, mais il a le culot de se montrer Ã la hauteur alors qu'il ne l'est pas. Batman peut dormir sur ses deux pointes. Expand 82. Aug 17, 2011 The Green Lantern is my favorite DC comic book hero, so you can imagine my excitement as I sat down in the theater. Superhero movies always have a lot of potential, The Green Lantern included, needless to say, I was disappointed. Ryan Reynolds delivered an expressionless, boring character and was not fit for the role at all. Not just Ryan Reynolds though, all the actors do a depressing job at portraying any sort of emotion at all and most perform terribly at their roles. A cliche superhero plot is to be expected, but, unlike some films, this movie had no twists or surprises, and overall failed to impress. The special effects could have been much better, but were satisfactory. The action scenes never reach extreme excitement or explosive fun, but are still good enough to keep you interested. Everything felt rushed; some actually good scenes were cut off too quickly, the final battle came far too fast, and the whole movie I was hoping that one character would stand out and become defined, but alas, they never did. A disappointing superhero movie to say the least. For a superhero movie, this one is rushed, boring and sub-par. Expand 83. Aug 17, 2011 I love the Green lantern, but the actors, to put it flatly, are awful. None of them do a respectable job, and it is very predictably, but the action scenes are really good. 84. Aug 15, 2011 This wasn't the superhero movie I was trying to see, but thank goodness the movie was a total 3-D waste. OK, I'm not a fan of Green Lantern (he is probably overrated), but how come they still going to make a sequel if it was #1? Are the filmmakers making a second chance opportunity at greatness against Batman and Superman movies? The answer is NO. Nobody even critics wants a Green Lantern sequel because of Ryan Reynolds slow but awkward performance. Green Lantern was another mediocrity in 3-D movies so far and a mild one. I hate Green Lantern and it is one of the worst movies of 2011. Expand 85. Aug 12, 2011 Expected to see something more, found it very.... boring, however, its a pretty good adaptation, the acting is terrible and disappointing, and also, the effects are good, but the acting is as bad as Transformers's 86. Aug 6, 2011 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. I think it is a good movie but not a great movie, is like one of those movies you see when you don't have something better to do, the plot seems to be good but I could note than there are missing pieces, you can think, among other things that one new untrained green lantern can defeat an ancient an dangerous enemy so easily when a group of the best fearless well trained lanterns fail on the task, it just don't make any sense... Expand 87. Aug 2, 2011 It's another Marvel film but it wasn't a good one like Captain America I like seeing Ryan Reynolds and he was trying to give a good job in this movie so it is not his fault for the bad review. It not a movie that you should go out of your way to watch. Just wait till it comes on T.V. or go if someone offers to buy your ticket. 88. Aug 1, 2011 89. Jul 31, 2011 90. Jul 31, 2011 Comparing this movie to other superhero movies its BAD. Bad Dialogue, just bad. Good scenery though i'll give them credit for that. This movie is so bad I can't even write a bad review. Read another bad review and that is how I feel lol. 91. Jul 31, 2011 There are plenty of bad movies been released this year, but i will draw my attention to the biggest disapointment of the year. Green lantern looked AMAZING in the trailer and it really does portray an epic tale of good vs evil , Will vs Fear. Me being an avid green lantern fan and a follower of DC comics i was looking forward to DC's 3rd major movie release other than batman and superman. With the huge depth of super heroes from DC unvierse to make movies on i thought that this movie would be one of the best movies out there this year. Oh how wrong was I. Even for me a true fan of the GL, this movie is utter rubbish. Its really boring, takes forever to get going and when it does it ends. It feels more like a setup for a second movie (at the end you will see why) but given how much it has flopped unless they know the 2nd movie will be a million times better than this, no one would go near it with a barge pole. The acting is okay in my opinon, Ryan Reynolds does a good job as the GL but his supporting cast look like they couldnt care less. The Special effects are good when you get to see some action but its not enough. If you are not gonna have action scenes then at least replace them with an engaging story, Unfortnately it dosent, stay away from this title its very, very poor. Expand 92. Jul 30, 2011 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. I left this movie feeling pretty good.....and then I thought about one of things I liked best about it - the 3D effect. As far as superhero movies go, this one delivered. As for something new and "uninvented"...not at all. This was pretty much the superhero meets girl, girl falls in love with superhero, girl finds out uninteresting guy she knows is superhero. Don't dare see this without the 3D may be "green" with envy of those who did. Expand 93. Jul 27, 2011 whoops i ment to give it a 1 on my first review! I hope this isn't too late for me! 94. Jul 26, 2011 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. The future of mankind depends on the joystick doings of a college-bound kid who lives in a trailer park. It's 1984, and Alex Rogan is going for the Starfighter record, blasting spaceships on a coin-operated video game in pursuit of a million points before a live audience. When he crosses the threshold, you know the record is legitimate because Alex breaks the mark on a sanctioned machine, which makes all the difference in the world, according to Billy Mitchell, who discredits the world record-breaking Donkey Kong score posted by Washington resident Steve Wiebe in "The King of Kong", the 2007 documentary about the subculture of competitive gaming. 874,300 and 1,006,600 are meaningless numbers, relevant only to an insular group of eighties refugees, but in "The Last Starfighter", the score matters; it's actually a world record, tied with other players, extra-terrestrials from distant galaxies who presumably are all smarter than Alex, which proves Twin Galaxies referee Walter Day right with his claim that first generation arcade games require "comprehensive thinking". Whereas Wiebe, a middle-school science teacher, drives cross-country to New Hampshire for a winner-take-all showdown with Mitchell, a chicken wing hot sauce tycoon, Alex's journey takes him to the stars, as he's transported across the universe by Centauri, an interplanetary recruiter for Rylos, the planet where Alex, a jack-of-all-trades(including plumber, just like Mario), is expected to defend the Kodan Armada from Xur. It's the video game's premise come to life; it's a ten-year-old kid's wet dream, but Alex's brother is too busy ogling centerfolds from his Playboy stash. Early on, "The Last Starfighter" recognized the potential for arrested development in video game-playing males. Exhibit A: the "boys" at Fun Spot whose lives are centered around a Donkey Kong champion, twenty-three years after the film last played in theaters. This should be Louis' adventure. Released one year after Dragon's Lair(the first role-playing coin-op), the "Star Wars" knockoff demonstrates how anything could be an avatar, be it an interstellar fighter pilot or an Italian-American plumber-turned-"Average Joe" superhero, and more importantly, shows how the movies would someday resemble video games, in which "The Green Lantern" is just one more spectacle-laden example. In essence, Hal Jordan flies his plane like a gamer, breaking the rules of engagement like Maverick in "Top Gun", but Cruise managed to be human, unlike the superhero, who is clearly a cipher. The ring chooses Hal by default, since earth just happens to be the planet that Abin Sur crashes on. Earth has no affiliation with the Green Lantern Corps., whose leader deems the human species worthy only of his contempt. Alex, likewise, is considered to be a fluke. Centauri explains how the machine was originally headed for Vegas, but inexplicably, it turned up at a "fleaspeck trailer park", completely incongruous to its natural surroundings, an arcade, just like how the monolith in "2001: A Space Odyssey" winds up in the African desert, causing a disturbance among the apes(Donkey Kong, a gorilla, is a kind of ape). Earth isn't even a part of the league. Humans are comparably stupid. However, similar to how the monolith instilled that first ape with the intelligence to use the bone as a weapon, the machine makes Alex smarter, bringing him up to speed in order to make him competitive with the higher-evolved recruits. Like "The Last Starfighter", this latest DC Comics adaptation features a loss of narrative momentum, in which both protagonists return home when earth doesn't seem to be in any imminent danger. "Save the whales, but not the universe," observes Alex's replicant when the humanoid first sees the conscientious objector. Like the would-be starfighter, Hal is also an isolationist; he doesn't see how the Parallax's rampage against the planets of his Green Lantern brethren affects earth. Cowards at heart, nevertheless, self-preservation keeps both Hal and Alex alive and enables them to save their home when it comes under attack. At Alex's orientation for the Rylan Star League, the "death or victory" chant that comes at the end of the speaker's closing statements recall the Japanese mentality during WWII, turning the starfighter recruits into something akin to kamikaze pilots. Alex, being American, is impervious to the brainwashing. Similarly, the Parallax possesses the same quintessential war period Japanese characteristic of fearlessness, as embodied by the fear essence's "yellow" energy. It's Hal's humanity; his admission of being afraid to die which makes him successful against the Parallax and Hector, whose bulbous head, a result of exposure to radiation, could be interpreted as a reference to the atomic bombs that leveled Japan. Donkey Kong is suicide too. Most games "don't last a minute". It's suicide, manufactured by Nintendo. Expand 95. Jul 26, 2011 This review contains spoilers, click expand to view. Don't listen to the critics. They were probably expecting another "Batman Begins", were disappointed because they instead got something more kid-friendly, and overreacted about. Well, except for Armond White, who thinks Green Lantern, X-Men: First Class, and Thor are racist. Green Lantern and Thor are NOT racist, and I haven't seen First Class, but I'm 100% sure it's not racist either. Okay, back on topic. This film is entertaining, fun, and refreshing. It did feel rushed at times, although not as much as Spider-Man 3, and out of the two, Green Lantern is the better one. I was disappointed in Parallax, who looked fake. Green Lantern's CGI mask still looked very fake. As itsjustsomerandomguy's Magneto said...... are they gonna be done with that thing before the blu-ray comes out. Well, everyone should be glad it wasn't as fake as the shark in "Jaws: The Revenge". Like Thor and Captain America, Green Lantern stayed true to the comics. If any of you wonder why Sinestro was Hal's mentor rather than his nemesis, it's because that was the case in the comics. So frankly, X-Men: First Class, from the looks of the trailer, looks like it's the only superhero movie of the summer that didn't stay very true to the comics. But anyway, Mark Strong did his role better than anyone else. Ryan Reynolds did his role well, too, but not as good as Mark Strong. Same with the rest of the cast. Like I said, don't skip this movie because the critics hated it. In my opinion, this movie is a lot of fun, and go see it and then have your own opinion about the movie. 96. Jul 24, 2011 This movie was.....ok. Even though Ryan Reynolds is unbeliveably sexy(which is why is saw this movie.) I think he could have played the role better than he did. I honestly think he is better off doing roles other than superheroes and involve less cheesy lines. 97. Jul 23, 2011 Green Lantern is an alright film. Some of the fight scenes are cool and the story can be interesting to learn. The problems with the film is it could have gone into more detail about some of the characters but they didnt and this isnt the best superhero film ive ever seen. I would give this film a high rental 98. Jul 22, 2011 99. Jul 20, 2011 The Green Lanterns powers are based around his willpower and imagination, so why then did this movie lack imagination? While I did enjoy it at the time, afterwards once I got home and started thinking about it, it wasn't that great, actually. I'd watch it, but I probably wouldn't pay to do so. 100. Jul 18, 2011 An enjoyable but easily forgettable movie that will keep fans of comic book movies happy but will bore anyone expecting to get the same quality as movies like the Dark Knight. Ryan Reynolds was the perfect choice for Hal Jordan but it seems Martin Campbell director of Casino Royale was out of his depth doing a comic book movie. Generally unfavorable reviews - based on 39 Critics Critic score distribution: 1. Positive: 5 out of 39 2. Negative: 15 out of 39 1. Reviewed by: Marc Savlov Jun 23, 2011 2. 60 3. Reviewed by: Glen Weldon Jun 17, 2011	http://www.metacritic.com/movie/green-lantern/user-reviews?user_review_id=1669478&sort-by=date	<urn:uuid:7ab18d10-5928-4559-afc1-e9c5f86a0515>	en	0.973387	0.037602
Research Article Association of Polyaminergic Loci With Anxiety, Mood Disorders, and Attempted Suicide • Laura M. Fiori, Affiliation: McGill Group for Suicide Studies, Douglas Mental Health University Institute, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada • Brigitte Wanner, Affiliation: Research Unit on Children's Psychosocial Maladjustment, Université de Montréal, Montreal, Quebec, Canada • Valérie Jomphe, Affiliation: Centre de recherche Université Laval Robert-Giffard, Université Laval, Quebec City, Quebec, Canada • Jordie Croteau, • Frank Vitaro, • Richard E. Tremblay equal contributor, equal contributor Contributed equally to this work with: Richard E. Tremblay, Alexandre Bureau, Gustavo Turecki Affiliations: Research Unit on Children's Psychosocial Maladjustment, Université de Montréal, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, School of Public Health and Population Sciences, University College Dublin, Dublin, Ireland • Alexandre Bureau equal contributor, • Gustavo Turecki equal contributor mail • Published: November 30, 2010 • DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0015146 The polyamine system has been implicated in a number of psychiatric conditions, which display both alterations in polyamine levels and altered expression of genes related to polyamine metabolism. Studies have identified associations between genetic variants in spermidine/spermine N1-acetyltransferase (SAT1) and both anxiety and suicide, and several polymorphisms appear to play important roles in determining gene expression. Methodology/Principal Findings We genotyped 63 polymorphisms, spread across four polyaminergic genes (SAT1, spermine synthase (SMS), spermine oxidase (SMOX), and ornithine aminotransferase like-1 (OATL1)), in 1255 French-Canadian individuals who have been followed longitudinally for 22 years. We assessed univariate associations with anxiety, mood disorders, and attempted suicide, as assessed during early adulthood. We also investigated the involvement of gene-environment interactions in terms of childhood abuse, and assessed internalizing and externalizing symptoms as endophenotypes mediating these interactions. Overall, each gene was associated with at least one main outcome: anxiety (SAT1, SMS), mood disorders (SAT1, SMOX), and suicide attempts (SAT1, OATL1). Several SAT1 polymorphisms displayed disease-specific risk alleles, and polymorphisms in this gene were involved in gene-gene interactions with SMS to confer risk for anxiety disorders, as well as gene-environment interactions between childhood physical abuse and mood disorders. Externalizing behaviors demonstrated significant mediation with regards to the association between OATL1 and attempted suicide, however there was no evidence that externalizing or internalizing behaviors were appropriate endophenotypes to explain the associations with mood or anxiety disorders. Finally, childhood sexual abuse did not demonstrate mediating influences on any of our outcomes. These results demonstrate that genetic variants in polyaminergic genes are associated with psychiatric conditions, each of which involves a set of separate and distinct risk alleles. As several of these polymorphisms are associated with gene expression, these findings may provide mechanisms to explain the alterations in polyamine metabolism which have been observed in psychiatric disorders. Mood and anxiety disorders represent the two most common forms of mental illness, and are associated with a wide range of behavioural and somatic symptoms as well as substantial disability and decreased quality of life [1]. Suicidal behaviors are closely, but not exclusively, associated with both psychiatric disorders [2][5]. These behaviors, which comprise ideation, attempts, and completed suicide, are amongst the most devastating consequences of psychiatric disorders, and account for over a million deaths worldwide each year [6]. Over the years, the importance of genetic factors in psychiatric disorders has become increasingly apparent, with overall heritability rates for depressive disorders, anxiety disorders, and suicide ranging between 30–50% [7][11], involving both shared and distinct genetic vulnerabilities [12][15]. Substantial efforts have been put towards identifying genes and pathways involved in the pathology and etiology of these conditions as these both represent sites involved in conferring risk for their development, as well as act as potential targets for pharmaceutical treatments [16], [17]. Although the substantial evidence emerging from genetic, metabolic, and pharmacological studies investigating these disorders has implicated the involvement of monoaminergic neurotransmission, particularly the serotonin and catecholamine systems, dysregulation of these systems is not sufficient to account for all aspects of the clinical presentations or heritability associated with these disorders, and it has become abundantly clear that additional systems are involved. The polyamine system represents an important source for neurobiological factors involved in mood disorders, anxiety disorders, and suicide. In recent years, the majority of the focus has been on its involvement in suicidal behaviours, yet considerable research across the last three decades has pointed towards roles for the polyamine system in several psychiatric conditions, including schizophrenia, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders, and particular emphasis has been placed on the importance of this system in the physiological and behavioural responses to stress [18]. The polyamines are ubiquitous aliphatic molecules, comprising spermine, spermidine, putrescine, and agmatine, which are involved in a vast range of cellular functions, including cell cycle modulation, scavenging reactive oxygen species, control of gene expression, and possess important roles in neurotransmission through their modulation of the functioning of cell-surface receptors, involvement in intracellular signalling pathways, as well as their putative roles as neurotransmitters [19], [20]. Cellular levels of the polyamines are extensively regulated through tight control of their biosynthesis, catabolism, and transport, and much of the evidence for their involvement in psychiatric conditions to date has revolved around variations in the levels of the polyamines, as well as alterations in the expression of genes involved in polyamine metabolism, including spermidine/spermine N1-acetyltransferase (SAT1), spermine oxidase (SMOX), spermine synthase (SMS), and ornithine aminotransferase–like 1 (OATL1) [21][26]. Given the extensive molecular functions of the polyamines, their precise roles in the etiology and pathology of psychiatric disorders remain unclear, although evidence from animal studies have suggested that at least some of their antidepressant and anxiolytic effects involve modulation of transmission through N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors, α2-adrenoceptors, imidazoline receptors, and serotonin receptors [18]. In spite of the strong evidence suggesting a role for the polyamine system in depression, anxiety, and suicide, with recent evidence indicating direct polyamine dysregulation in brain tissue from individual who died by suicide [27], only a few studies have investigated polyamine-related genes at the genetic level, all of which have focused exclusively on promoter polymorphisms in SAT1, the main rate-limiting enzyme in polyamine catabolism. Three studies found significant associations: rs6526342 with suicide [21], rs6151267 with suicide in depressed individuals [28], and rs1960264 with anxiety [29]. However, another study found no association between either rs6526342 or rs17286006 and suicide [23], nor was rs1960264 found to be associated with schizophrenia [30]. Interestingly, these polymorphisms are part of a larger haplotype block which is associated with SAT1 expression in the brain [31], thereby representing a link between genetic variability and downstream functional consequences. To date, no genetic studies have examined the relationships between polymorphisms in other polyamine-related genes and psychiatric disorders. The aim of the present study was to expand our understanding of the relationship between polymorphisms in polyamine-related genes and psychiatric disorders, in particular mood disorders, anxiety disorders, and suicidal behaviours, as well as to investigate the potential for epistasis between genetic risk factors, and to identify variables which may influence the effects of genetics on psychopathology. To this end, we genotyped a large number of polymorphisms in several genes involved in polyamine metabolism in a French-Canadian cohort which has been followed for over 20 years. During this time, substantial clinical and epidemiological measures were collected, and a number of these were assessed as potential mediators for our genetic associations. Given the influence of environmental stressors on the polyamine system [18], [32] as well as consistent findings implicating early life adversity in the development of psychiatric disorders [33][35], the influence of childhood sexual and physical abuse was assessed. We also investigated several personality measures, comprising externalizing or internalizing behaviors, as endophenotypes for our main outcomes. As our previous research investigating externalizing and internalizing trajectories in young children (ages 6 to 12) did not identify mediating effects with regards to mood disorders or suicide attempts [36], [37], in this study these symptoms were investigated at an older age (adolescence). Overall, we identified several genetic risk factors associated with mood disorders, anxiety disorders, and suicidal behaviours, as well as several clinical variables which mediate these effects. Study Participants Participants in this study were part of a larger cohort of French-Canadians recruited in 1986–1987, then followed-up for over 20 years. A more detailed description of this cohort as well as the assessment schedules is found in [34], [36]. In brief, children were recruited from francophone schools in Quebec at age 6, where they were assessed through a variety of demographic, social and behavioral measures in several waves, representing childhood, mid-adolescence, early adulthood, and mid-adulthood. The initial sample comprised 3017 children, of which 2000 were randomly selected and are considered representative of the young French-speaking population. DNA was collected from the 1255 respondents among the initial sample. In the representative sample of 2000 subjects, there were no differences between the respondents and nonrespondents for parental age at birth of first child, maternal socioeconomic status, or proportion living with both biological parents. As both family adversity (described below) and gender were related to attrition in our previous studies in this cohort [36], we used them to construct weights for multivariate analyses. This study was approved by the institutional review boards of the University of Montreal and McGill University. Written informed consent was obtained from all subjects. Genetic Factors. Single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) were selected from four polyamine-related genes: SAT1 (NM_002970), SMOX (NM_175839), SMS (NM_004595), and OATL1 (NM_001006113). SNPs were located between 5 kb upstream of the transcription start site to 5 kb downstream of the end of the last exon. Common tag SNPs (minor allele frequencies >5%) for each gene were selected using HapMap data for the Utah residents with Northern and Western European ancestry [38] and the multi-marker tagging procedure in Tagger (r2>0.8) [39]. Additional SNPs in the upstream regions were selected using the NCBI, Pupa, and Ensembl databases. In total, 63 polyamine-related SNPs were genotyped, as shown in Supplementary Table S1. We also included 42 anonymous markers spread in non-coding regions across the genome in order to detect population stratification. Genotyping was performed using a 768-SNP Illumina platform with a custom-designed GoldenGate panel. Following genotyping, several quality control steps were performed as described in [36]. Two SNPs (rs1535225 and rs2238958) had call rates of less than 90% and were removed. Environmental Factors. Among the overall study group, we defined two subsamples through their exposure to physical (CPA) or sexual (CSA) abuse in childhood (under 18 years of age). Subjects in the CPA group self-reported severe or very severe physical abuse perpetrated by either parent, as assessed in the Conflict Tactics Scales [40], [41]. Childhood sexual abuse was defined as incidences of sexual violence experienced before the age of 18, and was assessed by self-report as described in [42]. The effects of family adversity were also assessed. As described in [43], we computed a family adversity index based upon maternal reports regarding: (1) family structure (two parent or single), (2) educational level of both parents (or the parent with whom the child was living), (3) occupational status of both parents (or occupation of the parent with whom the child was living) based on the Blishen's occupational prestige scale [44] and, (4) mother's and father's age at birth of the first child. Higher values correspond to higher family adversity levels at the time when the participants were approximately 6 years of age. Diagnostic Interview Schedule for Children (DIS-C) [45]. Using the DIS-C, self-reports of hyperactivity-impulsivity (8 symptoms), oppositional defiant disorder (9 symptoms), conduct disorder (11 symptoms), generalized anxiety (18 symptoms), panic disorder (13 symptoms), major depression (9 symptoms), and dysthymia (6 symptoms) were assessed. A total externalizing-disruptiveness score was obtained by summing the symptom counts associated with hyperactivity-impulsivity, oppositional defiant disorder, and conduct disorder (Cronbach alpha = 0.77). Two separate internalizing scores were generated: an internalizing-anxiety score was calculated by summing generalized anxiety and panic disorder symptoms (Cronbach alpha = 0.93), while an internalizing-depression score was generated by summing major depression and dysthymia symptoms (Cronbach alpha = 0.94). To equally weight each disorder when calculating the total sum scores, each count variable was transformed to range between 0 and 1 (by dividing the total count by the maximum count after adding 1 as a constant) before calculating the total sum score. Covariates and Outcomes Diagnostic Interview Schedule for Adults (DIS) [46]. This schedule assesses mood (major depression, bipolar disorder and dysthymia), anxiety (generalized anxiety, panic and phobias), disruptive (i.e., antisocial personality), and substance abuse disorders (abuse and/or dependence on drugs, alcohol and nicotine) using DSM-III-R criteria. Mood and anxiety disorders represented outcomes and, in addition, served together with disruptive and substance abuse disorders and suicide attempts (see below) as the covariate “history of psychopathology”, following previous research [36]. This count variable summarized the number of diagnoses in each individual. For each of the main outcome variables, the other two outcomes were part of this count variable, in addition to substance and disruptive disorders. By means of controlling for the other disorders, any significant gene-outcome relationship is independent of these potentially confounding effects. The DIS was also used to provide information regarding parental history of suicide attempts, anxiety, and mood disorders. If either parent had a positive history for these control variables, the respective history was coded as ‘1’, otherwise it was coded as ‘0’. Suicide attempts. Suicide attempt status was based on both adolescent and adult assessments. Adolescent history was obtained from parental/adolescent responses to a question from the DIS-C [45]: ‘Have you already attempted suicide?’ Either parental or self-report was sufficient for a person to be classified as an attempter. Adult suicide attempts were assessed with a question from the Suicidal Intent Scale [47]: ‘Have you already attempted suicide?’ A positive attempt status was coded as ‘1’ and negative as ‘0’. Statistical Approach Population Stratification. Although the French Canadians descended from a small number of individuals and displays a well-known founder effect [48], [49], we nonetheless felt it was necessary to identify population outliers - individuals displaying significantly different allele frequency distributions from the rest of the sample [50]. We used the genotype log likelihood test statistic with a cut-off of P = 0.01, identifying 12 outliers, which were excluded from subsequent analyses. All SNPs fulfilled Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium. Univariate analyses. We first investigated direct effects exerted by SNPs and haplotypes on our main outcomes (suicide attempts, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders). We also postulated that CSA or CPA may create associations of genetic variants with phenotypes only in subjects exposed to these environments and, therefore screened for such moderating or interaction effects by testing for associations of SNPs with the phenotypes in the subsamples of subjects exposed to CSA or CPA. Firstly, in order to identify redundant SNPs, we used the squared correlations between each SNP to identify all groups of SNPs with r2>0.99, then selected only one SNP from within each group of these perfectly correlated SNPs, yielding a set of 43 SNPs which were retained for all further analyses. The patterns of linkage disequilibrium between SNPs within each gene are shown in Supplementary Figure S1, and the set of non-redundant SNPs are displayed in Supplementary Table S1. χ2-tests and Fisher's exact tests, in conjunction with a false detection rate (FDR) cutoff of ≤0.20, were used to identify significant SNPs under allelic, recessive and dominant genetic models with respect to the minor allele. For X-linked SNPs, males were coded as homozygous when assessing recessive and dominant models. The FDR attached to each P-value for suicide attempts in the total sample as well as all analyses in the CSA and CPA subsamples was estimated using the Efron [51] method implemented in R. The Benjamini-Hochsberg [52] method was used to compute FDRs for analyses of anxiety and depression in the total sample. The Benjamini-Hochsberg method was employed for these analyses as the empirical null distribution was heavily skewed and did not fit a normal distribution, which is required to apply the Efron method. SNPs with FDR corrected P-value ≤0.20 were further tested in adjusted multivariate models. We determined haplotype blocks within each gene in the total sample using entropy.blocker [53] implemented in the R statistical environment. Global association tests to haplotypes within each haplotype block were performed for suicide, depression, and anxiety. For SMOX, haplotype analyses were performed using the function haplo.score [54] from the package haplo.stats, implemented in R. Analyses for the X chromosome genes were performed using UNPHASED [55]. The analysis of SMS haplotypes was more complicated due to the large number of SNPs in the SMS haplotype block. Firstly, we formed ten subgroups of strongly correlated SNPs, then made three different selections of ten SNPs by randomly picking one SNP in each subgroup. These three selections were then analysed using UNPHASED. Multivariate analyses. Using a series of regression-based analyses adjusted for psychopathology, we retained all significant SNPs in a given gene (P<0.05), and included them together in a model across genes. We also tested if the results in the final models changed if we applied weights adjusting for the probability of remaining in the sample conditional on the variables related to attrition: gender and family adversity. The expectation-maximization method (EM) was used to impute missing covariate values. We analyzed two forms of moderating effects: gene-gene interactions, and gene-environment interactions. Gene-gene interactive effects were assessed in order to examine moderation of the effects of polyaminergic loci on the three outcomes by other polyaminergic loci. These interactions were performed between pairs of SNPs, in separate genes, from among those that displayed significant univariate associations to the three main outcomes. To assess these effects, in each regression model, we included two of the significant main effects from the univariate analyses as well as their interaction term. Interactions were only assessed using SNPs which were significant in the univariate analyses, and only between SNPs of different genes. Each set of predictors was tested with a logistic and an additive regression model. We examined allelic–allelic, dominant–dominant, dominant–recessive, recessive–dominant and recessive–recessive model combinations, depending on the significant mode found on the univariate step. Specifically, we conducted ten regressions (suicide attempts: 2, mood disorders: 0, anxiety disorders: 8) and empirically determined whether logistic or additive link functions yielded a better fit to the data, resulting in two highly correlated sets of regressions and a total of twenty tests. We believe that the low statistical power to detect interaction effects in field studies, as described by McClelland and Judd [56], also applies to psychiatric and genetic studies. We therefore did not employ Type-I Error protection for the gene-gene interaction tests. Following similar procedures, we tested gene-environment interactions to examine the moderation of the effects of childhood abuse on the associations of SNPs with any of the three outcomes. We controlled for confounding effects of passive or evocative gene-environment correlations by adjusting models for parental histories of psychopathology, and by demonstrating that genotypes did not influence the exposure to abuse. Post-hoc tests were used to quantify regression slopes and examine the statistical significance of significant moderating effects [57]. Corrections for multiple testing were not performed at this stage in the analyses, as these tests were performed using only SNPs which passed our FDR criteria in the CSA and CPA subsamples prior to the inclusion of covariates. Power analyses for these tests with the mood disorder phenotype are shown in Supplementary Tables S2 and S3. As the prevalence of suicide attempts and anxiety disorders were higher than that of mood disorders in the sample, greater power is expected for these two phenotypes. In the presence of covariates, count scores of externalizing and internalizing disorders were investigated as endophenotypes mediating the significant main effects identified in the final models of suicide attempts, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders. Specifically, mediation testing was performed to identify variables which accounted for some or all of the associations between our genotypes and main outcomes [58], and the significance of these results was assessed using Sobel and Goodman tests. From the initial 1255 subjects, fourteen subjects with call rates less than 95% were excluded, and 108 subjects were removed as they displayed non-White ethnicity. Assessment for population outliers identified 12 subjects displaying significantly different allele frequencies than the remainder of the population. After exclusions, the total analyzed sample consisted of 1121 (N = 664, 59% female) individuals, as shown in Table 1. Overall, exposure to CSA or CPA was significantly associated with higher rates of suicide attempts, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders. Table 1. Characteristics of the total sample and the childhood sexual abuse (CSA) and childhood physical abuse (CPA) subsamples with respect to the main outcomes. Univariate analyses Our first objective was to determine if genetic variants within these polyamine genes were associated with our main outcomes in order to identify potential risk or protective factors involved in suicide attempts, mood disorders, or anxiety disorders. Individual SNPs. We first examined association of the 43 non-redundant SNPs with each of the three adult outcomes (mood disorders, anxiety disorders, and suicide attempts) under allelic, dominant, and recessive models. As shown in Table 2, two SAT1 and five SMS SNPs exhibited recessive modes of inheritance regarding the prediction of anxiety disorders, while three SMS SNPs were significant in the dominant model. These two SAT1 SNPs were also significantly associated with mood disorders, where they exhibited a dominant mode of inheritance. Additionally, six SNPs were found to be significantly associated with mood disorders in the CPA subsample in the dominant mode. Finally, three SNPs, including one in SAT1 and two in OATL1, were significantly associated with suicide attempts. Additionally, the results of the univariate analyses for the CSA subsample indicated no significant links to any of the adult outcomes, ruling out gene X environment interactions involving childhood sexual abuse. Table 2. Significant univariate associations between polyamine genes and adult outcomes in the total and childhood physical abuse (CPA) samples. The haplotype block analysis revealed that each gene was contained within a single haplotype block. Overall, association tests between haplotypes from each of the genes and the adult outcomes indicated that common haplotypes did not yield any more information than individual SNPs on the association between the studied genes and the phenotypes (not shown). Multivariate analyses Gene-gene and gene-environment interactions. Given the extensive regulation of polyamine metabolism, we were next interested in determining if genetic factors found within separate genes (Table 2) may interact in conferring risk for psychiatric disorders. We found no significant interactions for either mood disorders or suicide attempts, as both the interaction terms between the two SNPs in mood disorders, and the three significant SNPs associated with suicide attempts, were not significant. As there was a high correlation between two of the pairs of SNPs that were significantly associated with anxiety disorders (rs10521911 and rs6654100 in SMS: r2 = 0.96; and rs6526342 and rs3764885 in SAT1: r2 = 0.86), we randomly dropped one of the SNPs of each pair from the interaction analyses. We found a significant interaction in the additive model including the main effects and the interaction term of rs3764885 (SAT1) and rs6654100 (SMS) with respect to anxiety disorders (χ2(1) = 6.25, P = 0.01). As shown in Figure 1, individuals with homo/heterozyosity for the G alleles in rs3764885 (SAT1) and in rs6654100 (SMS) had an elevated risk for anxiety disorders. No other interaction tests were significant for anxiety disorders. Figure 1. Significant gene-gene interaction between rs3764885 (SAT1) and rs6654100 (SMS) for anxiety disorders. Next, we tested whether the significant SNPs for mood disorders found in the CPA subsample (Table 2) may yield significant gene-environment interactions in the overall sample. We found a significant interaction in the additive model including the main effects and the interaction term of rs3764885 (SAT1) and CPA as well as parental mood disorder (χ2(1) = 5.51, P = 0.02). As depicted in Figure 2, individuals with homo/heterozyosity for the G allele in rs3764885 (SAT1) and who were CPA victims had elevated rates of mood disorders. This gene-environment interaction was not confounded by evocative gene-environment correlation as indicated by a nonsignificant correlation between the SNP and CPA (P = 0.75). In terms of passive gene-environment correlations, parental mood disorders were weakly associated with CPA (r2 = 0.081, P = 0.005). No other gene-environment interactions were significant. Figure 2. Significant gene-environment interaction between rs3764885 (SAT1) and childhood physical abuse (CPA) for mood disorders. Main/mediating effects. Our final objective was to identify SNPs that are uniquely associated with our main outcomes, along with clinical variables which mediate these associations. The results of the multivariate analyses of the main effects are depicted in Table 3. Overall, the final logistic models explained approximately 18%, 14%, and 11% of the variance in mood disorders, suicide attempts and anxiety disorders, respectively. Using an equivalent of Cook's statistic for logistic regression, outlier diagnostics indicated no cases of extreme influence except, in the analysis of anxiety, the combination formed by the reference values of all variables. However, the latter represented the largest group of subjects. Multicollinearity was unlikely, as the highest correlation among our variables was r2 = 10.8%. The final estimates obtained with the EM missing-value imputation method had narrower confidence intervals (CI) but were otherwise similar to unimputed estimates. Weighting for gender and family adversity did not change estimates of significance levels or odds ratios (OR) (not shown). Table 3. Main and interactive effects for single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) and adult outcomes of mood disorders, suicide attempts, and anxiety disorders. Mood disorders. As mentioned above, rs3764885 and rs6526342 were highly associated, and were the only SNPs that were significant for the prediction of mood disorders in the overall sample. Table 3 depicts the final additive model that included standardized history of psychopathology in addition to the interaction model described above. We found no evidence for a mediating effect of CSA, although there was a relationship between CSA and mood disorders (r = 0.10, P = 0.0005), after controlling for the covariate effects. Suicide attempts. One SNP (OATL1, rs11795513) made a statistically significant contribution to suicide attempts (OR = 1.80) independently of parental attempt (OR = 3.52) and Axis I diagnoses (OR = 2.74). We found evidence for evocative gene-environment correlation for this SNP and CSA (r = 0.10, P = 0.0008) as well as a link between CSA and suicide attempts (r = 0.17, P = 0.0001) after controlling for the covariate effects. After entering CSA in the regression model, the link between the OATL1 SNP and suicide attempt dropped (OR = 1.66, CI 1.09–2.51). A Sobel test indicated significant (partial) mediation (Sobel statistic: z = 2.73, P = 0.0064; Goodman statistic z = 2.77, P = 0.0056). Parental suicide attempts were linked to CSA (r = 0.09, P = 0.0021) and CPA (r = 0.07, P = 0.0129). Although CPA was significantly linked to suicide attempts (r = 0.15, P<0.0001), it was nonsignificantly linked to the OATL1 SNP (r = −0.03, P = 0.3038), making further analyses unnecessary. Anxiety disorders. In addition to the interaction effect of SAT1 (rs3764885) and SMS (rs6654100) described above, one SNP (SMS, rs5951676) made a statistically significant contribution to anxiety disorders (OR = 2.05), independently of the nonsignificant effect of parental anxiety disorders (OR = 1.05) and the significant effect of history of psychopathology (OR = 1.14). Neither CSA nor CPA demonstrated mediating effects for anxiety disorders. Candidate endophenotypes. Externalizing (disruptiveness) symptoms were significantly linked to mood disorders (r = 0.16, P<0.0001), anxiety disorders (r = 0.09, P = 0.0024), and suicide attempts (r = 0.21, P<0.0001). Disruptiveness was also linked to the OATL1 SNP rs11795513 (r = 0.09, P = 0.0042) that was linked to suicide attempts (see Table 3). After entering disruptiveness in the regression model predicting suicide attempts, the relationship between the OATL1 SNP and the outcome dropped (OR = 1.71, CI 1.13–2.59). A Sobel test indicated significant (partial) mediation (Sobel statistic: z = 2.25, P = 0.0244; Goodman statistic z = 2.30, P = 0.0215). Disruptiveness did not demonstrate mediating effects with respect to mood disorders or anxiety disorders, although it was significantly linked to rs3764885 (SAT1) (r = −0.09, P = 0.0009) which predicted anxiety disorders and mood disorders. Neither of the internalizing endophenotypes demonstrated mediating effects with respect to any of the three outcomes. In this study, we examined the relationships between genetic variants in polyamine genes and three main outcomes: suicide attempts, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders. In addition, we assessed the gene-gene and gene-environment interactions as well as investigated the involvement of several potential endophenotypes as mediators for our genetic effects. Overall, not only did each of the four genes examined demonstrate significant associations with at least one of our main outcomes, but each of these outcomes was in turn associated with polyaminergic variants. Among the genes examined, SAT1 displayed the greatest range of effects, with polymorphisms demonstrating significant associations with each of the three main outcomes. The SAT1 gene encodes the rate-limiting enzyme in polyamine catabolism, and has provided the most compelling evidence for the involvement of dysregulated polyamine catabolism in psychiatric conditions, particularly in completed suicide where it displays widespread decreases in expression across the brain [21], [22], [24], [25]. In the present study, three SAT1 SNPs, rs6526342, rs3764885, and rs1894289, demonstrated significant associations with the main outcomes; interestingly however, our results indicate disease-specificity with respect to the risk alleles at these polymorphisms. Indeed, while rs6526342 and rs3764885 were significantly associated with both mood and anxiety disorders, the major alleles at these SNPs represented the risk alleles in anxiety disorders, whereas the minor alleles conferred susceptibility towards mood disorders. Both these SNPs, as well as two other polymorphisms, rs6151267 and rs1960264, are found on the same haplotype block [31], and greater proportions of the major haplotype at this locus have been associated with both completed suicide and anxiety disorders [21], [28], [29]. Interestingly, the association of rs6151267 with completed suicide was only found when comparing individuals with depressive disorders, indicating that the risk conferred by this polymorphism is specific to suicide performed in the context of depression. The results of the present study may thus help explain this effect, as it could be that the ability of this haplotype to confer susceptibility to suicide may have been more apparent in a sample in which the opposite allele is found at higher proportions. At the molecular level, we recently characterized the role of this haplotype in influencing the expression of SAT1, and found that the more common haplotype was associated with lower gene expression in vitro and in the brain [31]. Accordingly, it could be speculated that the relationships between these SNPs and mood and anxiety disorders are mediated by the effects of this haplotype on gene expression. Another SAT1 SNP, rs1894289, also possessed disease-specific risk alleles in terms of its associations with attempted suicide and mood disorders. Given that this SNP is located approximately 3.5 kb downstream of SAT1, it is unlikely that it possesses a functional role, and rather is tagging the functional variant. Compared to the other SAT1 SNPs examined, the linkage disequilibrium between this SNP and others on the haplotype block is much lower: it is therefore quite possible that this SNP is tagging an adjacent haplotype block, and that the associations of this SNP involve distinct molecular mechanisms. In this study, SMS, which is involved in spermine biosynthesis, demonstrated strong associations with anxiety disorders through both main genetic effects as well as through a gene-gene interaction with SAT1. Although our previous results had indicated that this gene demonstrates altered expression in the hippocampus of suicide completers [22], this represents the first study indicating that it may also be involved in anxiety. We recently characterized genetic and epigenetic factors in the promoter region of SMS and found no indication that promoter variants, DNA methylation, or chromatin modifications played a role in determining the expression of this gene [59]. However, as all of our significant associations in the present study map to introns or regions downstream from SMS, these results may indicate that genetic variants outside of the promoter region could influence the expression of this gene. Alternatively, the functional variants responsible for the associations with anxiety may influence later gene regulatory steps, such as mRNA processing or enzymatic activity. Indeed, several rare mutations in SMS, resulting in altered splicing or enzymatic activity, are responsible for Snyder-Robinson syndrome, a form of X-linked mental retardation which manifests with both intellectual and physical symptoms including alterations in brain morphology [60][63]. Certainly additional studies will be required to identify the variants which are responsible for our associations as well as the mechanisms by which they exert their effects. In addition to the main genetic effects, we identified a gene-gene interaction between SMS and SAT1 in conferring risk for anxiety disorders. Interestingly, SMS and SAT1 are located in close proximity on the X chromosome, and are at a chromosomal region which was recently found to be associated with suicide [64]. This could indicate the involvement of shared regulatory mechanisms, which may be involved in the interactive effects between SNPs in these two genes. Unlike the other genes included in this study, the significant findings regarding SMOX and mood disorders were only apparent in the subset of individuals who had experienced physical abuse in childhood. Within this subgroup, three SNPs, two within the third intron and one located 3 kb downstream, demonstrated significant associations with mood disorders. Along with SMS, we recently examined genetic and epigenetic elements in the SMOX promoter, and found little indication that expression of this gene was influenced through these mechanisms [59]. Aside from our previous findings regarding altered expression of this gene in suicide completers [25], little is known concerning the involvement of this gene in psychiatric conditions. As such, the mechanisms by which these SNPs may act to confer susceptibility to mood disorders is unknown. OATL1 yielded the strongest univariate associations in this study, with two SNPs being significantly associated with suicide attempts. Compared to the other genes in this study, the relationship of OATL1 to polyamine metabolism is more distant, and its physiological function or role in polyamine metabolism has not been well characterized. This gene was selected for this study due to its potential involvement in suicide, as it displays altered expression in the hippocampus of suicide completers [22]. While the current study appears to support its involvement in suicidal behaviors, the mechanism by which it exerts its pathological effects remains unclear. Indeed, the two SNPs associated with attempted suicide map outside of the gene, with rs11795513 located approximately 2 kb upstream and rs2249583 approximately 13 kb downstream. These SNPs are part of a larger haplotype block on the X chromosome which encompasses several genes [38], [65], and as such, it is also possible that these associations may be due to genes located nearby rather than OATL1. In addition to main genetic effects and gene-gene interactions, this study examined the role of gene-environment interactions in conferring risk towards each of the three main outcomes, as well as controlled for possible confounding effects of gene-environment correlations. Our results demonstrated that exposure to either physical or sexual abuse was associated with elevated risk for suicide attempts, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders, however our results indicated that sexual abuse did not moderate the genetic associations of the polyamine genes with these outcomes. Our results identified a significant moderating effect of physical abuse on the association between the SAT1 SNP rs3764885 and mood disorders. Particularly interesting is that while higher levels of the minor allele were associated with mood disorders in the univariate analyses, the effects of physical abuse were to increase the risk for mood disorders in individuals carrying the major allele. Finally, we identified several evocative gene-environment correlations with regards to CSA and its involvement in mood disorders and suicide attempts, however the mechanisms involved in these effects are not clear. Along with analyses investigating the relationship between genetics and the environment, a growing trend in psychiatric research has been to investigate endophenotypes as a means to disentangle the relationships between genetic variables and psychiatric disorders. Whereas our previous findings demonstrated that externalizing and internalizing trajectories measured in childhood were not suitable endophenotypes for mood disorders or suicidal behaviors [36], [37], the present study demonstrates that measurement of these symptoms at an older age may be more appropriate for describing suicidal behaviors. The ability of externalizing behaviors to act as an endophenotype to explain the relationship between our genetic findings and suicide attempts agrees well with the strong association between impulsive aggression and suicidal behaviors [15]. In addition, these results agree with our previous findings that trajectories based upon disruptiveness demonstrate a stronger relationship with suicide attempts than those derived from measures of anxiousness [37]. We found no evidence that our externalizing or internalizing endophenotypes mediate the relationships between our genetic findings and mood or anxiety disorders. This may reflect a lack of statistical power in our sample to detect these effects, or alternatively, these relationships may be mediated by other personality measures. There are several potential limitations to this study. Although we removed perfectly correlated SNPs from our analyses in order to reduce statistical corrections, it is clear that many of the remaining SNPs were highly correlated. As such, we likely overcorrected for multiple testing in using the Benjamini–Hochsberg procedure and may have missed additional weaker associations. Moreover, as with all studies of this nature, the presence of linkage disequilibrium prevents us from conclusively identifying the functional variants nor the mechanisms by which they exert their effects. Additionally, our statistical power to characterize genetic effects in the smaller CPA and CSA subsamples was limited and may have prevented us from identifying gene-environment interactions. Also, as CSA and CPA were assessed by self-report, recall bias may have affected these measurements. Finally, as we did not correct our interaction analyses for multiple testing, these findings should thus be interpreted with caution, as they are in need of replication. In conclusion, this study identified a number of genetic and environmental variables associated with attempted suicide, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders. While the precise biological mechanisms by which these genetic variants confer risk to these disorders remains to be determined, these studies have greatly extended our knowledge regarding the involvement of dysregulated polyamine metabolism in the etiology and pathology of psychiatric conditions. Supporting Information Figure S1. Linkage disequilibrium (r2) between polymorphisms within each gene. Table S1. Single nucleotide polymorphisms genotyped in each gene. Major and minor alleles are shown for each variant. Table S2. Power analyses for association testing with mood disorders in the total sample and the subgroup of individuals exposed to childhood physical abuse (CPA), under the assumption of an interaction between genotype and CPA. Tests were computed under the dominant genetic model by combining carriers (homozygotes and heterozygotes) of the risk allele. Power calculations were assessed for α levels corresponding to false discovery rates (FDR) of 0.2. Table S3. Power analyses for regression analyses of the interaction between a genotype and childhood physical abuse (CPA) on mood disorders. Tests were computed under the dominant genetic model by combining carriers (homozygotes and heterozygotes) of the risk allele. Power calculations were assessed for α = 0.05. We would like to thank the subjects and their families for their participation in this study. Author Contributions Conceived and designed the experiments: LMF BW FV RET AB GT. Performed the experiments: LMF BW VJ JC AB. Analyzed the data: LMF BW VJ JC AB. Wrote the paper: LMF BW AB GT. 1. 1. Kessler RC, Aguilar-Gaxiola S, Alonso J, Chatterji S, Lee S, et al. (2009) The global burden of mental disorders: An update from the WHO World Mental Health (WMH) Surveys. Epidemiologia e Psichiatria Sociale-An International Journal for Epidemiology and Psychiatric Sciences 18: 23–33. 2. 2. Kim C, Lesage A, Seguin M, Chawky N, Vanier C, et al. 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Research Article A Peak-Clustering Method for MEG Group Analysis to Minimise Artefacts Due to Smoothness • Jessica R. Gilbert mail, (JRG); (LRS) Affiliation: School of Life and Health Sciences, Aston University, Birmingham, United Kingdom • Laura R. Shapiro mail, (JRG); (LRS) • Gareth R. Barnes Affiliation: The Wellcome Trust Centre for Neuroimaging, University College London, London, United Kingdom • Published: September 14, 2012 • DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0045084 Magnetoencephalography (MEG), a non-invasive technique for characterizing brain electrical activity, is gaining popularity as a tool for assessing group-level differences between experimental conditions. One method for assessing task-condition effects involves beamforming, where a weighted sum of field measurements is used to tune activity on a voxel-by-voxel basis. However, this method has been shown to produce inhomogeneous smoothness differences as a function of signal-to-noise across a volumetric image, which can then produce false positives at the group level. Here we describe a novel method for group-level analysis with MEG beamformer images that utilizes the peak locations within each participant’s volumetric image to assess group-level effects. We compared our peak-clustering algorithm with SnPM using simulated data. We found that our method was immune to artefactual group effects that can arise as a result of inhomogeneous smoothness differences across a volumetric image. We also used our peak-clustering algorithm on experimental data and found that regions were identified that corresponded with task-related regions identified in the literature. These findings suggest that our technique is a robust method for group-level analysis with MEG beamformer images. The use of magnetoencephalography (MEG) as a research tool for brain-imaging in both normal and clinical populations is burgeoning. With advances in signal processing, beamforming has gained traction as a meaningful approach to source-localization in MEG. In beamforming, a weighted sum of field measurements is used as a spatial filter to tune an estimate of neural activity (i.e.,power) in a pre-specified time and frequency band window on a voxel-by-voxel basis. This produces a whole-brain volumetric image of signal power change which can be used for group-level analyses. One problem in conventional MEG group analysis is that individual beamformer images are not homogeneously smooth; the images are information rich around strong sources, yet very smooth elsewhere [1], [2]. These smoothness differences have been found to range over two orders of magnitude within an image [3]. This inverse relationship between source strength and smoothness can lead to unpredictable effects at a group-imaging level. For example, at moderate signal strengths, artefactual group effects can occur. These arise because the true peaks within each source reconstruction have broad maxima (and sidelobes) whose shapes differ across participants. Through the overlap of these smooth maxima (or their sidelobes), secondary, apparently disconnected peaks can arise at a group level. A related problem of non-isotropic or inhomogeneous smoothness has been studied in the context of fMRI to correct for cluster size statistics in cases where, for example, the underlying isotropic image has been inhomogeneously resampled onto a cortical surface [4], [5]; indeed, similar solutions have been proposed for MEG [2], [6]. These solutions based on random field theory assume that voxel-to-voxel covariance can be summarized by local smoothness measures. However, the relationship between two image voxels in MEG is not just a function of their proximity (as in fMRI/PET), but also of the orientation of the dipole at that location, and therefore covariant voxels are not necessarily part of the same contiguous cluster. This is an inevitable problem in MEG source reconstruction where a large number of voxel estimates are made from a small number of channels. In this paper, we try to step around this reconstruction problem by compressing the volumetric image to a point list of local maxima, which in turn simplifies the statistics. This is advantageous as one often ultimately wishes to interrogate individual participant beamformer estimates of electrical activity, which have been shown to be only truly reliable at the image peaks [3] (note that a similar approach has been used previously for a dipole fit analysis [7]; see discussion section for a full comparison). In brief, we assume that, under the null hypothesis, rank-ordered (e.g., by power) image peaks across participants will be no more closely grouped than any random selection of peaks. The paper is divided into three sections. In the first section, we describe the peak-clustering algorithm and define a method for correcting for multiple comparisons when testing over a range of peaks for group-level effects. In the second section, we compare our peak-clustering algorithm against SnPM using simulated data. In the third section, we utilize our algorithm to test for group-level effects in experimental data. Methods and Results Peak Clustering Algorithm To compare the distribution of the M top-ranked image peaks (per person) over a group of participants against any random selection of peaks, we used the following algorithm. (The matlab code is available from the corresponding author on request.): 1. 1. Rank order the image peaks for each participant and store their corresponding locations. Since the test is based on rank order, the user must specify an interest in positive or negative peaks. The data presented in this manuscript used normalized t-tests between conditions to create images. 2. 2. Take the coordinates of the top M peaks from each of N participants. Construct the smallest possible ellipsoid that contains a single peak from each participant. The issue here is that the top peak in participant 1 may be at the same location as the 3rd peak in participant 3, etc. By selecting from M peaks, one trades off the precise peak order against spatial resolution (see later). 3. 3. Establish if this ellipsoid is smaller (in terms of the major radius) than one would expect by chance. The computation of this radius under the null hypothesis is done by randomly assigning ranks to peak locations and repeating step 2 a large number of times (e.g., 500 in this paper). This produces a distribution of radii which one would expect due to chance (if peak rank were not important). To give a simple example, how likely is it that the image maxima for ten participants (N = 10, one peak so M = 1) are within 1 cm of one another? To answer this, one can compute how close the image maxima will be by chance by simply taking a random image peak from each participant and repeating this process to get a null distribution of ellipsoid radii. Now one computes the same size metric using ranked peaks from each participant, then reads off the number of randomly drawn ellipsoids that are smaller than this (e.g., p<0.01). Ellipsoid computation. For a given number of participants (N) and peaks (M), a k-means clustering procedure was iteratively used to derive M separate ellipsoids (ideally each of N points) from N*M points. Clusters were trimmed such that each set contained at maximum one point per participant (selecting the point closest to the centroid). At the end of the iterative procedure (typically 30 iterations), one is left with a set of the smallest (based on standard deviation of the point list) clusters for varying numbers of participants (from a user specified minimum up to a maximum of N). For these point lists, ellipsoid axes were computed from the eigenvectors and the standard deviation in each direction (and hence the 95 percentiles) computed from the corresponding eigenvalues. Correcting for Arbitrary Number of Peaks The peak clustering algorithm requires some a-priori selection of the parameter M, or the number of top-ranked peaks to consider in the analysis. Typically, therefore, it is necessary to test a range of values of M, and hence there is a corresponding multiple comparisons penalty. In this section, we examine the dependence of our results on this parameter and propose an approximate heuristic for dealing with it in the future. Figure 1 shows the dependence of the 95th percentile of the confidence radius (R) (maximum radius (in mm) of the ellipsoid defining the confidence volume) on M for positive peaks in our experimental data analysis (see below for more information on the experimental study). Statistics are automatically produced for all subgroups from N = 5–10 participants but only N = 5, 7, and 10 are shown here for clarity. Intuitively, the smaller the number of subjects (N), the smaller an ellipsoid will be by chance (e.g., in the case of just 2 subjects, one could imagine that some peaks will be almost adjacent by chance). Figure 1. Dependence of the confidence radius on parameter M. The relationship between the number of peaks used (M) and the 95% significant (maximum) radius of the confidence ellipsoid (in mm) for subgroups of N = 5 (blue), 7 (green) and 10 (red). Intuitively, the larger the N, the larger the size of the cluster one would expect to occur by chance. In contrast, the larger the number of peaks per subject (M) considered, the easier it will be to reach a given cluster size, hence the 95% threshold decreases as more peaks are included in the analysis. The parameter M determines the trade-off between the importance assigned to rank order and the importance assigned to tight clustering of peaks across participants. If there is high importance assigned to rank order (smaller M), then relatively larger clusters of peaks across participants will be acceptable (although these may have little anatomical consistency). However, if the effect in question does not reach the top M peaks in most participants, it will be completely missed by the analysis. By contrast, if M is set to be too large, then the inclusion of many superfluous (i.e., low rank) peaks will mean that a very tight spatial distribution is required to distinguish a functionally meaningful cluster from one occurring by chance. This is an analogous problem to the choice of image smoothing parameters in fMRI, and analogously the choice depends on the question asked. As a starting point, we propose a simple heuristic to choose a value of M which balances dependence on peak rank against cluster size. If we take the knee of the curve in Figure 1 to represent some optimal balance between dependence on peak magnitude (small M) and anatomical consistency across participants (small R), we can compute a parameter J which quantifies the distance of the curves from the knee, where M and R are the number of peaks and the confidence radius respectively. Now plotting J against M gives a curve with a clear minimum (see Figure 2). For each sub-group (N), crosses on the curve indicate that at least one significant (p<0.05) cluster was found for this choice of M when analyzing positive peaks. Importantly, and giving some validiation of our choice of heuristic, these significant excursions predominate around the minimum of the function. Figure 2. Peak amplitude and anatomical consistency trade-off. A plot of the heuristic to optimize the balance between peak magnitude and anatomical consistency across subjects. J increases for large numbers of peaks (where there is a very tight distance threshold (R) on how close the peaks must be) and also increases when M is small due to the corresponding decrease in anatomical specificity (due to increase in threshold R shown in Figure 1). Alternatively, one can choose to test a range of M (2–30 in this case), produce significant clusters (for each M; shown by crosses), and then correct for multiple comparisons. After multiple comparison correction (for M), two significant clusters were found which are denoted by the circles and squares around these points. These are the same two clusters identified in our experimental data. The next problem is how to set an appropriate significance level. There is a single univariate null hypothesis–that the peaks are clustered by chance. However, as we change (increase) M, we are re-testing the same hypothesis with different subsets of data. Hence, a multiple comparisons penalty is necessary. One simple solution would be to only examine the function minima at each value of N. One problem here is that the minima are relatively flat and the smoothness depends on the number of random permutation steps performed, which is processing intensive. Also, one can see from Figure 2 that each subgroup curve N has a different optimal M value (the larger the number of participants in the group, the larger the optimal number of peaks). Another possibility is to consider the range of M which defines this minimum. This approach does not rely on the identification of minima (so it is more robust) and can be computed for all N at once. However, there is a multiple comparisons penalty. It is important to note, however, that a completely new (i.e., independent) set of data is only introduced each time the number of peaks is doubled. Making a Bonferroni correction, the significance level should be decreased by a factor each time the number of peaks is doubled. This means that the test wise error rate to give a family wise error rate of 0.05 is based on the following Bonferroni correction: where log2 is log to the base 2, pcorr is the corrected significance level and Mstart and Mend define the range of M we pre-specify an interest in. The circles and squares around the crosses in Figure 2 show the two significant ellipsoids found after multiple comparisons correction for the range of peaks tested (for Mstart = 2 and Mend = 30). Measuring Algorithm Performance: Simulated Data In order to test algorithm performance against some ground truth we simulated a single dipolar source across a group of participants. The same single sphere head model and sensor locations were used for each simulated participant. System white noise was simulated at 10 fT/sqrt (Hz) over a bandwidth of 80 Hz. Data for 10 participants were simulated, differing only in the simulated source location and white noise realization. In each simulated participant, a random seed location was generated, drawn from a Gaussian distribution of standard deviation 5 mm, centered on MNI location x = 52, y = −29, z = 13. The nearest canonical mesh location [8] to this seedpoint and the corresponding surface normal were used to set the location and orientation of the single simulated dipole in each participant. Our simulated sources were normal to the cortical mesh, but as location was jittered, both source location and orientation changed over participants. The dipolar source was driven with a 40 Hz sinusoid over a period of 200 ms (sample rate = 200 Hz). The source was active for 30 of 60 epochs and a linearly constrained minimum variance (LCMV) beamformer was used to produce a volumetric beamformer image of the change in power in the 0–300 ms, 0–80 Hz band in terms of a normalized difference (or pseudo-t) image [9] on a 10 mm grid. The beamformer has been described extensively [2], [3], [9], [10], and an abbreviated version is presented here. The beamformer is simply a spatially filtered expression of the MEG sensor data. where W is a vector of weighting coefficients and m(t) is the measurement vector at time t. To obtain the weighting coefficients, power is minimized over the covariance window subject to the constraint of unit gain at a specified coordinate θ: where H is the forward solution for an equivalent current dipole (ECD) at coordinates and orientations specified by the vector θ. The solution to the equation is: where C is the covariance matrix of the measurements calculated over the specified covariance window (Tcov). The 2 (i.e., single-sphere) or 3 (i.e., multiple spheres) orthogonally oriented components of W at each location can be estimated independently to produce a vector beamformer. In this case, we used a scalar beamformer in which optimal source orientation at each voxel was estimated through the method of Sekihara et al. [11]. A normalized source power estimate can be obtained over any test period (within the covariance window) through the estimation of the sensor level covariance matrix Ctest over this period, and an estimate of the sensor noise εtest (in this case, we used identity) matrix over this period: We should note that in the experimental data analysis stage, we used the proprietary software (SAM) to analyze the data [9]. This computes separate covariances (and hence weights) for both active and passive periods. In the simulation stage, however, we computed a single covariance matrix (based on both active and passive periods), but as there was only white noise in the passive period, this should have marginal effect on the power difference calculation (see discussion). Different participant groups were constructed by drawing 8 of these 10 images randomly twenty times. For each participant group, we used SnPM (multiple participant, one sample t-test, variance smoothing 25 mm) to identify significant (family wise error = 0.05) positive effects across the normalized power difference images. Using the peak clustering algorithm, we used the same data to look for clusters within the top 5 image peaks that were smaller than one would expect by chance (i.e., M = 5 peaks, N = 8 participants). For each simulated group, we compiled a list of the significant local maxima (p<0.05 corrected) in the SnPM images and a list of the centers of the peak-clusters deemed significant. We classed a hit as a peak/ellipse center closer than 20 mm to the initial MNI seed location and a miss to be any significant peak or ellipsoid center outside this range. The peaks were defined by local image maxima identified using the SPM function spm_max based on 18 neighbors. This means that two local maxima can be as close as a single (non-maximal) voxel apart. Measuring Algorithm Performance: Experimental Data We assessed the performance of our peak-clustering algorithm on experimental data. In our experiment, ten right-handed volunteers (Mean Age = 29.4 years, range = 20–36 years; 2 males) gave written informed consent following Aston University ethical guidelines and participated in the MEG study. The protocol was approved by the Aston University Institutional Review Board and complied with all guidelines expressed in the Declaration of Helsinki. Briefly, participants (N = 10) performed a superordinate-level categorization task on pictures of objects drawn from 3 living and 3 nonliving categories (see Figure 3). A total of 78 pictures were selected, half of which depicted a living object and half a nonliving object. Each picture was shown twice, half with a congruent label and half with an incongruent label. Therefore, a total of 156 trials were shown during the scan. The order of trial presentation was randomized across participants. We recorded neuromagnetic data at a 600 Hz sampling rate with a bandwidth of 0–150 Hz using a CTF 275 MEG system (VSM MedTech Ltd., Canada) composed of a whole-head array of 275 radial 1st order gradiometer channels housed in a magnetically shielded room (Vacuumschmelze, Germany). Synthetic 3rd gradient balancing was used to remove background noise on-line. Fiducial coils were placed on the nasion, left preauricular, and right preauricular sites of each participant. These coils were energized before each run to localize the participant’s head with respect to the MEG sensors. Total head displacement was measured after each run and could not exceed 5 mm for inclusion in the source analyses. Prior to scanning, participants’ head shapes and the location of fiducial coils were digitized using a Polhemus Isotrak 3D digitizer (Kaiser Aerospace Inc.). These were then coregistered to high-resolution T1-weighted anatomical images for each participant acquired with a 3-Tesla whole-body scanner (3T Trio, Siemens Medical Systems) using in-house coregistration software. Figure 3. Example experimental data trial. During study 1, participants were shown a 1000 ms red fixation cross, followed by a 300 ms category probe. After a variable (1000, 1050, or 1100 ms) delay interval, participants were shown a target object for 800 ms. Data for each participant were edited and filtered to remove environmental and physiological artefacts. A LCMV beamformer was then used to produce 3-dimensional images of cortical power changes [9]. We utilized a wide frequency band (1–80 Hz) to compute source power from 120–220 ms after stimulus onset (i.e., a 100 ms window surrounding the M170), directly contrasting living (‘active’) to nonliving (‘control’) target objects. Spectral power changes between the ‘active’ and ‘control’ periods were calculated as a pseudo t-statistic [9]. Each participant’s data were then normalized and converted to Talairach space using statistical parametric mapping (SPM99, Wellcome Department of Imaging Neuroscience, London, UK, for group-level comparisons. We used SnPM (multiple participant, one sample t-test, variance smoothing 6, 12, and 24 mm) to identify significant (family wise error = 0.05) positive effects across the normalized power difference images. We also used our peak-clustering algorithm to test over a range of M values from M = 2 through 40 (we utilized only positive peaks in the analysis), which means that in order to maintain a family wise error rate of 0.05, our test wise error rate was adjusted to p = 0.0094. After multiple comparisons correction, we were left with a number of significant clusters of peaks (see Table 1). The remaining volumes decreased in size spatially as M increased so if the same region was identified as showing a significant difference across a range of M values, we selected the region for reporting purposes that yielded the largest N. In some cases, several M values yielded the same N. We then chose the volume for reporting purposes that had the smallest spatial extent (in terms of the major radius). Table 1. Experimental Results. Simulation Results Figure 4 (top) shows the number of hits and misses summed over the 20 participant groups for the two methods. At moderate SNR, the number of misses for SnPM is much higher than for the peak-clustering approach. This is due to extra peaks appearing in the SnPM images due to artefacts of smoothness. Figure 4 (bottom) shows binarized (thresholded at p<0.05 corrected) SnPM significance images summed over the 20 groups (and then normalized to the maximum count). That is, the maps show the spatial distribution of significant regions and the grey scale shows their relative frequency (over groups). For moderate source strengths (i.e., 10–20 nAm), one can see the appearance of extra significant clusters, which give rise to the inflated miss rate. Note that these misses are not false positives in the statistical sense, but simply image features that persist over participants due to the source reconstruction method. The peak-clustering approach is immune to these extra features as there are no consistent local maxima in these vicinities across participants. In this particular example, the peak-clustering approach is also more sensitive (i.e., a maximum of 20 hits reached before SnPM). Note, however, that in this case we have prior knowledge of how many of the top peaks to consider. Figure 4. Data simulation findings. Top panel shows the total number of significant local maxima over 20 simulated subject groups (with a single simulated source) identified using SnPM (dotted) and the peak clustering method (solid) as source magnitude is increased. Local maxima within 2 cm of the simulated source are defined as hits and those greater than 2 cm misses. Note that both methods consistently identify the correct source location at high SNR (20 hits, 0 misses) but that SnPM tends to produce a large number of artefactual significant regions at moderate SNR. This error rate is due to the smoothness of the beamformer images that gives rise to statistically significant overlapping side-lobes. These effects are shown in the lower panel, where maps of the percentage of significant voxels (from the 20 groups) are shown in the glass-brain. Experimental Results The SnPM analysis did not identify any regions showing significant positive power differences when using 6 or 12 mm variance smoothing. However, a single region centered in right anterior middle to superior temporal gyrus (Talairach coordinates of center = 48, 3, −18) was identified when we set variance smoothing to 24 mm (see Figure 5). The peak-clustering analysis of positive peaks identified two separate regions showing greater power for living objects (see Figure 5). The region with the largest N was centered in left inferior occipital gyrus, and using the top 8 positive peaks in each image, 7 of our 10 participants were found to have a peak falling within the region (major radius = 22.3 mm, mean value = 1.84). In addition to this region, when using the top 15 positive peaks in each image (i.e., a less stringent magnitude criterion), 6 of our 10 participants were found to have a peak falling within a region in right anterior superior temporal gyrus (major radius = 12.4 mm, mean value = 1.7). This region overlapped with the region identified in the SnPM analysis. Figure 5. Experimental data findings. A) The region in right anterior middle to superior temporal gyrus identified by the SnPM analysis as showing significantly greater power for living compared with nonliving objects. B) The two regions identified by the peak-clustering algorithm as showing significantly greater power for living compared with nonliving objects. Red = Inferior Occipital Gyrus; Blue = Superior Temporal Gyrus. The sagittal images show the approximate slice locations (z coordinates are given below each slice) shown on the corresponding axial image (at right, blue lines, arranged inferior to superior) on a template brain. We have presented a peak-clustering algorithm for group-level analysis with MEG beamformer images. Our algorithm determines whether a range of image peaks (M) is closer than expected by chance. We compared the peak-clustering algorithm performance to a more traditional group imaging method (SnPM) and found the algorithm to be robust to artefacts of smoothness that can give rise to erroneous MEG beamformer group effects. There is an important distinction here between false positives due to type 1 error and the effects we are trying to correct for. Both SnPM and the peak-clustering algorithm have, by definition, the correct type 1 error rate (as it is set in both cases by permutation). Neither is there a problem with SnPM. The issue we are trying to correct for here is one of source reconstruction, where a small number of data channels are projected into a large number of voxels, resulting in images which are very smooth in certain regions. It is therefore a way of pruning away redundant information from beamformer images to reduce the likelihood that these smooth and information sparse regions of source space contribute to the group effect. Our approach is similar to a dipole fit analysis approach used previously [7]. In the Litvak paper, the focus was on identifying the differences between experimental conditions through the permutation of condition labels to create sensor-time and dipole fit clusters. By comparing this null (e.g., in terms of distances between dipole clusters) to the true distribution, the authors were able to put a significance level on how likely the conditions were to be the same. The main differences between the Litvak technique and our own are that we shuffle peak rank rather than data labels, and we do not have a theoretical source model (e.g., 1 or 2 dipoles) but are looking for consistency over images which may contain large numbers of sources. That said, the same approach of shuffling data labels (rather than peak rank) to generate the null could also be used here to make inferences on whether the ellipsoids due to separate stimulus conditions were any larger than that due to their mixture. As mentioned previously, in the algorithm we are effectively trying to compensate for the few (i.e., channel) to many (i.e., voxel) mapping in M/EEG volumetric source reconstruction. This problem is exacerbated in beamformer analyses because of the dependence of spatial resolution not only on system sensitivity, but also on source power [1], [2]. An additional problem not addressed here is that in the SAM implementation used for the experimental data (i.e., CTF version), different covariance matrices are used to construct different beamformer weights for different task labels (in contrast to a single set of weights for all tasks, cf. [2]). That is, the statistical image is a test between two non-stationary images. For the purposes of this study, the distinction is not important because either way the images are inhomogeneous. We are not proposing a new or improved inversion algorithm, simply a method by which some of the smoothness inhomogeneities (due to any volumetric reconstruction) can be discarded. Also, for our beamformer analysis, we used no regularization. This gives maximum spatial resolution at the expense of noisy images and time-series estimates. It would also give rise to the maximum number of peaks per image. A higher regularization constant would reduce the number of peaks, removing some that were potentially just due to sensor noise, but potentially risk discarding signal peaks. At some ideal level, one would expect the highest ratio of signal to noise peaks [12]. We do know that there can be a maximum N channels minus 1 nulls in the beamformer image [10]; so, for a simple (i.e., unregularized) power image one would expect approximately the same number of local maxima. The algorithm requires a parameter that defines the number of top-ranked peaks to consider (M) for each participant. This parameter has important implications for cluster size. Since the algorithm first computes chance volume sizes using a random selection of peaks, using a small number of peaks can produce a large cluster size for the null distribution. Rather than arbitrarily determining the number of peaks for the algorithm to consider, we developed a heuristic that balances peak rank against cluster size that requires the user to test over a range of M values and use a Bonferroni correction for multiple comparisons. For example, to maintain a family wise error rate of 0.05 when testing over 38 P-values (i.e., 2–40), the test wise error rate becomes 0.0094. It is important to note that the choice of M can be made based on simulations or on the data themselves, as long as an appropriate multiple comparisons correction is made. For this reason we had expected the algorithm to be more conservative than volumetric approaches (like SnPM), but by only dealing with the image in its compressed point-list form, rather than all voxels, we have also considerably reduced the multiple comparison correction necessary. This may explain why, counter to our expectation, the algorithm picked out significant features in the experimental dataset that were not apparent in (the volume corrected) SnPM tests. In our experimental study, participants were required to perform a superordinate-level categorization task on pictures of living and nonliving objects. The SnPM analysis yielded mixed results based on the variance smoothing used. When using both 6 and 12 mm, no regions survived statistical significance. However, when using 24 mm, a single region in right anterior middle to superior temporal gyrus showed significantly greater power for living than nonliving objects. Using the peak-clustering algorithm, we also found a significant cluster of activity in right anterior superior temporal gyrus, overlapping with the region identified by the SnPM analysis. In addition, we identified a region in left inferior temporal gyrus showing greater power for living than nonliving objects, which we did not find in our SnPM analysis. In order to determine whether the SnPM analysis yielded a peak in left inferior temporal gyrus that simply did not survive whole-brain correction, we looked at the t map produced in our SnPM analysis. We found a cluster of activity centered in left inferior temporal gyrus (peak value = 2.95), which suggests that left inferior temporal gyrus would be significant if we performed a region-of-interest analysis (rather than a whole-brain analysis) using roughly 7 independent voxels (or ROIs). This would be in accord with our explanation that the peak clustering analysis has a less stringent multiple comparisons penalty, as it considers only a limited number of image peaks per subject (indeed for these analyses there were 8 peaks per participant). Both of these regions we would expect to be active based on previous neuroimaging studies which have suggested that the inferior temporal/occipital gyri are important for form recognition, and that reliance on visual form is more important for living than nonliving objects [13], [14]. In addition, studies have also suggested that the anterior superior temporal gyri are important for object recognition, including making fine-grained distinctions amongst objects [15]. Several studies have also suggested that identifying living objects requires greater fine-grained discrimination than nonliving objects, perhaps due to greater structural (and semantic) similarity among living than nonliving things [16], [17]. As with many non-parametric techniques, the peak clustering method sacrifices some sensitivity for an increase in robustness, and requires that some feature of interest (here, each peak) is identifiable in the majority of individuals. This would not be the case in standard random or fixed effects models in which sub-threshold effects in the individual can be picked up in the group. Allowing the algorithm to identify smaller subgroups is a matter for debate. In some cases, the objective identification of subgroups might be a useful feature of the algorithm. Forcing the algorithm to be selective to only those regions in every participant that have a local maximum makes it extremely conservative. Once could also argue that a group effect is meaningless if one does not include the whole group. Yet, in classical volumetric approaches, random effects analysis allows some heterogeneity in the effects over the population. As long as the values of N (e.g., N = 9 for a group of 10) are reported then the reader can make his/her own inference on the strength of the finding (e.g., an effect in 90% of the participants). Also, the technique will not be sensitive to truly spatially extended regions of electrical activity that are not artefacts of smoothness, as only the peaks within each image are considered in the analysis. In sum, we have found that our peak-clustering technique offers a number of advantages over current group-level analysis approaches with MEG. The method is immune to inhomogeneous smoothness introduced by imperfect volumetric M/EEG source reconstruction and exacerbated in beamformer implementations, and indeed it makes no assumptions about the underlying image properties. In addition, the null distributions of source locations are constructed from the data itself and the randomization testing takes into account the multiple comparisons problem (for a given M). As the test is based on rank, it should be relatively robust to physiological artefacts and as a default we would leave the artefact identification until the post-hoc analyses. For example, eyeball artefacts should result in significant clusters in the eyes. Subgroup statistics are also available, so, for example, bounds for any 5 of N participants having significantly clustered peaks can automatically be tested. Finally, by providing confidence intervals on peak location, the technique would be well suited to situations in which one would like to make some spatial inference concerning peak location. For example, whether peaks from a particular subject group derive from a specific cortical location. Author Contributions Conceived and designed the experiments: JRG LRS GRB. Performed the experiments: JRG GRB. Analyzed the data: JRG GRB. Contributed reagents/materials/analysis tools: LRS GRB. Wrote the paper: JRG LRS GRB. 1. 1. Gross J, Kujala J, Hamalainen M, Timmermann L, Schnitzler A, et al. (2001) Dynamic imaging of coherent sources: studying neural interactions in the human brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 98: 694–699. doi: 10.1073/pnas.98.2.694 2. 2. Barnes GR, Hillebrand A (2003) Statistical flattening of MEG beamformer images. Hum Brain Mapp 18: 1–12. doi: 10.1002/hbm.10072 3. 3. Barnes GR, Hillebrand A, Fawcett IP, Singh KD (2004) Realistic spatial sampling for MEG beamformer images. Hum Brain Mapp 23: 120–127. doi: 10.1002/hbm.20047 4. 4. Worsley KJ, Andermann M, Koulis T, MacDonald D, Evans AC (1999) Detecting changes in nonisotropic images. Human Brain Mapping 8: 98–101. doi: 10.1002/(SICI)1097-0193(1999)8:2/3<98::AID-HBM5>3.0.CO;2-F 5. 5. Hayasaka S, Phan KL, Liberzon I, Worsley KJ, Nichols TE (2004) Nonstationary cluster-size inference with random field and permutation methods. Neuroimage 22: 676–687. doi: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2004.01.041 6. 6. Pantazis D, Nichols TE, Baillet S, Leahy RM (2005) A comparison of random field theory and permutation methods for the statistical analysis of MEG data. Neuroimage 25: 383–394. doi: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2004.09.040 7. 7. Litvak V, Zeller D, Oostenveld R, Maris E, Cohen A, et al. (2007) LTP-like changes induced by paired associative stimulation of the primary somatosensory cortex in humans: Source analysis and associated changes in behavior. Eur J Neurosci 25: 2862–2874. doi: 10.1111/j.1460-9568.2007.05531.x 8. 8. Mattout J, Henson RN, Friston KJ (2007) Canonical source reconstruction for MEG. Comput Intell Neurosci 2007: 67613. doi: 10.1155/2007/67613 9. 9. Vrba J, Robinson SE (2001) Signal processing in magnetoencephalography. Methods 25: 249–271. doi: 10.1006/meth.2001.1238 10. 10. Van Veen BD, van Drongelen W, Yucktman M, Suzuki A (1997) Localization of brain electrical activity via linearly constrained minimum variance spatial filtering. IEEE Trans Biomed Eng 44: 867–880. doi: 10.1109/10.623056 11. 11. Sekihara K, Nagarajan SS, Poeppel D, Marantz A (2004) Asymptotic SNR of scalar and vector minimum-variance beamformers for neuromagnetic source reconstruction. IEEE Trans Biomed Eng 51: 1726–1734. doi: 10.1109/TBME.2004.827926 12. 12. Woolrich M, Hunt L, Groves A, Barnes G (2011) MEG beamforming using Bayesian PCA for adaptive data covariance matrix regularization. NeuroImage 57: 1466–1479. doi: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2011.04.041 13. 13. Price CJ, Noppeney U, Phillips J, Devlin JT (2003) How is the fusiform gyrus related to category-specificity? Cognitive Neuropsychology 20: 561–574. doi: 10.1080/02643290244000284 14. 14. Gerlach C, Law I, Paulson OB (2006) Shape configuration and category-specificity. Neuropsychologia 44: 1247–1260. doi: 10.1016/j.neuropsychologia.2005.09.010 15. 15. Simmons WK, Barsalou LW (2003) The similarity-in-topography principle: Reconciling theories of conceptual deficits. Cognitive Neuropsychology 20: 451–486. doi: 10.1080/02643290342000032 16. 16. Tyler LK, Stamatakis EA, Bright P, Acres K, Abdallah S, et al. (2004) Processing objects at different levels of specificity. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience 16: 351–362. doi: 10.1162/089892904322926692 17. 17. Moss HE, Rodd JM, Stamatakis EA, Bright P, Tyler LK (2005) Anteromedial temporal cortex supports fine-grained differentiation among objects. Cerebral Cortex 15: 616–627. doi: 10.1093/cercor/bhh163	http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0045084?gilbert	<urn:uuid:8b33a8ed-ed87-47c2-92ab-12d4f523a197>	en	0.903478	0.072812
Slovakia approves EU rescue plan - Thursday 13 October 2011 • Slovakia votes in favour of EFSF expansion • €440bn still won't be enough, warns analyst • US and European stock markets slide, after Asian markets jump overnight • Italy to hold vote of confidence on Friday Today's agenda Lunchtime roundup • Blogging now: Graeme Wearden Slovakia's Prime Minister Iveta Radicova Slovakia's Prime Minister Iveta Radicova lost a vote of confidence over the EFSF expansion on Tuesday, leaving her as caretaker PM. Photograph: Petr David Josek/AP Live blog: substitution 7.00pm: Here's an evening summary. • Slovakia has approved Europe's new rescue fund, two days after rejecting it • Decision is good news for Europe, claims EC's Van Rompuy • Fitch downgraded some of Britain's banks • The FTSE 100 closed 38 points lower at 5403, after Chinese trade data raised fears over the global economy We'll wrap this blog up now. Good stuff in the readers comments as ever, so thanks for that. Same time, same place? 6.55pm: One more snippet on the Slovakia vote, AFP says there was no sign of caretaker PM Iveta Radicova at the vote. Unusal, as she normally attends all important divisions. 6.33pm: EC President Herman Van Rompuy and President José Manuel Barroso have just welcomed Slovakia's decision. Today the enhanced European Financial Stability Facility is fully operational after Slovakia's ratification. The EFSF provides us with a stronger, more flexible tool to defend the financial stability of the euro area. This is in the clear interest of every one of the 17 Member States directly concerned, as well as for the wider European Union. Although, as those wits at Zerohedge promptly tweeted, the next question is "How Do They Expand It To €3 Trillion?" 5.57pm: Looking away from Slovakia, a rumour was sweeping the financial markets (and Twitter) this afternoon that Britain's AAA credit rating might be downgraded this evening by a mysterious agency (most likely Fitch). We didn't blog about it as it seemed so unsourced. Anyway, having spoken to Fitch, there appears to be no truth in the rumour. Fitch, like S&P and Moody's, has the UK at triple-A with a stable outlook. It would be astounding to suddenly lower the rating, without first changing the outlook to negative. We spoke to Fitch earlier, who did not give the impression that a change was imminent. Instead, they sent over their current view on Britain: Public finances are broadly on the path projected by government despite weaker than expected growth and consistent with meeting budget targets that will stabilise and begin to reduce public debt from 2015. As Fitch noted in March, when it Affirmed the UK's AAA status, the rating does assume that if weaker growth negatively impacts public finances, the government will take additional tax and spending measures to meet its balanced budget target of 2015-16. At a bet, someone got confused about the UK bank downgrades which Fitch announced earlier today. 5.44pm: The Slovakian parliament also agreed to hold new elections in March 2012 (Radicova is now something of a lame-duck leader, having seen her coalition split over the vote - after the Freedom and Solidarity party refused to support her on Tuesday). Katya Kocourek of the Economist Intelligence Unit warns that the country now faces months of political uncertainty: The three key figures to watch on the political scene are Iveta Radicova, Ivan Gasparovic (the Slovak President) and Robert Fico. Between them, albeit unofficially, they will shape the political landscape running up to early elections, now scheduled for 10 March 2012. Radicova is expected to discuss the political makeup of an interim government with the President on Friday this week. The Freedom and Solidarity party now appear to be out of politics (and out of any interim cabinet); and what remains ahead is a period of political wrangling as Fico's Smer will seek to capitalise on the events of the last couple of days in a bid to discredit the former government led by SDKU-DS (with the early elections in mind). 5.32pm: The EFSF has said that it "stands ready to implement new activity", once every member of the Eurozone has confirmed its expansion. The plan to enlarge the EFSF was agreed in July, after European leaders met to agree a new rescue plan for Greece. As well as being given €440bn of firepower, the EFSF would also be allowed to extend credit to countries who hit trouble, and make loans to cover bank recapitalisations. There's a decent explainer here, showing how it differs from America's TARP plan. 5.29pm: Robert Fico, chairman of the opposition left-wing Smer-Social Democracy party, has said he is "satisfied" that the fund has been approved. "Slovakia is back on the map of Europe," said Fico, a former prime minister who was replaced by Radicova last summer. Before the vote, finance minister Ivan Miklos warned MPs that it was now "necessary that Parliament approves" the bill. 5.07pm: Associated Press report that the Slovak MPs took just 30 minutes to discuss and approve the EFSF expansion. On Tuesday, the debate began at 1pm local time and we didn't get a vote until 10pm. 4.49pm: Although the Yes vote is good news for Europe, it's clear that expanding the EFSF to €440bn will not be enough to solve the debt crisis. At best, it's a temporary fix - which would break if a large EU country needed rescuing. Here's what Lutz Karpowitz, an analyst at Commerzbank AG in Frankfurt, had to say (with thanks to Bloomberg): The second vote in Slovakia will pave the way for the EFSF, however, that does not constitute a solution. The EFSF would still be too small to support countries like Italy or Spain should the necessity arise. The recent recovery of the euro seems to have gone rather far considering the news flow. In the reader comments below, stomachtrouble suggests that Silvio Berlusconi may struggle to win tomorrow's vote of confidence: Yesterday Napolitano (the President) effectively gave Berlusconi a dressing down for not coming up a with a plausible budgetary plan - the government lost an important technical vote; curiously Tremonti was late for it. Fini, ostensibly Berlusconi's rival, was then dispatched from the Chamber of Deputies to brief Napolitano. Milan Borse is a mess today. Business sentiment is against Berlusconi, and increasingly the Northern League is seen as an acute embarrassment. Looking at the Milan stock market, the main index fell by 3.7% today. That's a much bigger fall than other European bourses. Not encouraging. 4.27pm: Slovakia's decision to approve the expansion of the European financial stability facility will be a relief to European leaders. It has come earlier than expected - frankly, I'd expected a vote on Friday. So how can a parliament soundly reject a bill on Tuesday night, only to confidently approve it on Thursday afternoon? The key lies in the complicated coalition government politics of Slovakia..... Prime Minister Iveta Radicova led a four-party coalition. One junior partner, the SaS, refused to support the enlarged Euro bailout fund. So, Radicova attempted to drive the bill through by making it a vote-of confidence..... ....but the SaS didn't blink. Instead, it walked out of parliament on Tuesday, which meant Radicova couldn't muster the votes she needed. Now, though, the Smer opposition party has voted in favour of expanding the fund [having, understandably enough, refused to express confidence in the coalition government]. 4.19pm: Slovakia MPs voted in favour of the EFSF by a large majority. • 114 voted for the EFSF • 30 against • 3 abstained and a further three were absent This means that every member of the Eurozone has now ratified the plan to expand the EFSF to €440bn and grant it new powers. 4.16pm: Just hearing from Bratislava that the Slovakian parliament has approved the ratification of the European financial stability facility (having rejected it two nights ago). Full details coming in now.... 3.55pm: My colleague in Brussels, David Gow, has been asking EU officials the burning question -- how much money may need to be injected into Europe's banking sector? Here's his thoughts (in full, but they're worth it) So, how much capital might Europe's banks need as a "temporary buffer" until they get back to the normal business of lending to create growth and jobs as they put it in Brussels? The BBC's Robert Peston, rummaging through the runes at the EBA, comes up with €200bn. The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) says the 55 biggest banks would require €150bn if the EBA sets the capital ratio at 9%. Senior EU officials, at one of those briefings that didn't take place, refuse to put a number on it but insist that "it won't be that large" or "it's manageable." The €150bn number is said to be closer to the likely outcome. There's a clear sense that the EU institutions have been dragged into this by the markets. "We have to put in place the appropriate backstops because the markets simply don't believe our numbers," it was said today. "We're deliberately over-shooting." An EU official - someone pretty high up in the Berlaymont hierarchy - says the banks raised €55bn in fresh capital in the first four months of this year, they're cleaning up their balance-sheets, disposing of assets, and, well, if they are forced to meet temporarily higher capital requirements they can do so without recourse to national governments, let alone the EFSF. Either way: all will be revealed soon, with the EBA number-crunching exercise - based on updated figures and asset prices reflecting market values - due to be finished "within the coming days," and the EU/eurozone summits due to sign off on detailed plans for, say, the 60 biggest banks by the weekend after next. And the banks willl be given three to six months to implement the plans. In Berlin Josef Ackermann, Deutsche Bank boss, joins the chorus of bankers railing against the plan, saying it will only increase states' budget deficits. Deutsche, Germany's biggest bank, is said to require €9bn in fresh capital under the EBA's likely scheme but Ackermann, so good at his job he's being replaced by two other people, says it doesn't need to go cap in hand to Schäuble or Merkel. "We anticipated that the banks would scream," that official said. "And if we thought this proposal would damage the economy we wouldn't be doping it, would we." Oh, and don't say "leveraging" the EFSF any more. It's "optimisation of resources". Leveraging is a toxic word, redolent of what caused the last financial crisis. And that doesn't mean turning it into a bank, or a CDO, or something complicated or even dodgy. It will be "plain vanilla- whatever it is. 3.40pm: The UK government is fond of pointing to the record low interest rates on British debt as a reason for sticking to the current fiscal consolidation plan. Today, 10-year gilts yield just 2.55% - much lower than Spain (5.2%), Belgium (4.2%) and France (2.9%). As David Cameron told MPs yesterday: "We mustn't abandon the plan that has given us record low interest rates." Paul Krugman (winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences), is claiming today that Cameron is puling a fast one. On his blog, he writes: British rates are low for the same reason US rates are low — not as a reward for fiscal virtue, but because everyone know expects the economy to stay depressed, and policy rates near zero, for years to come. I'd add that if you want to give credit to Cameron's policies for the recent fall in British rates, you'd have to ask why US rates have fallen even more. UK and US bond yields UK and US bond yields. Source: Bloomberg Anyone disagree? 3.22pm: Could Italy thrown the European debt crisis into yet more confusion? There's a possibility that its government could collapse by the end of the week, as Silvio Berlusconi has called a vote of confidence tomorrow. Berlusconi took the step after months of allegations over his private life (M'Lud), and claims that he has mismanaged the Italian economy for many years. In an impassioned address to parliament earlier today, Berlusconi accused left-wing opposition MPs of "obsessively" pushing for his resignation (isn't that what oppositions are supposed to do). He also claimed that only he could save Italy from the threat of a bailout: A government crisis now would be a victory for those who want to see (Italy) fall into decline, catastrophe and the kind of speculation we have seen for months in Europe and Italy. Looking at the bond market, Italian government debt has fallen in value today. That's pushed up the yield on its ten-year bonds to 5.8%. Above 6%, and Italy has a problem.... 3.02pm: Afternoon all. It's not a particularly cheery day on the financial markets. On Wall Street, shares are falling in early trading. In London, the FTSE 100 has now shed 1% (down 58 points at 5382). That's not a major move for the Footsie, but within it some stocks have dipped sharply. Mining giants Antofagasta and Kazakhmys have lost 6%, driven down by fears over the global economy (following news of China's shrinking trade gap). Financial stocks are also suffering, with Barclays and Lloyds Banking Group both losing around 5%. Market reporter Nick Fletcher tells me that JP Morgan's mixed financial results (released at 1.30pm our time), and Fitch's decision to downgrade the UK banking sector, are both weighing on the sector. 2.45pm: I'm handing this blog over now to my colleague Graeme Wearden.... 2.23pm: A twitter spat between Sky News business editor Mark Kleinman and Lord Sugar spiced up the airwaves a few minutes ago. Sugar accused the Skyman of getting his facts in a twist and provoking a massive, and unnecessary sell-off in bank shares. Kleinman said his story was the same all day and was vindicated when the Fitch downgrade came through. Sugar posted: Twitter icon SKY said rating agency Fitch to announce possible downgrade of UK banks today and then corrected it. Result caused some banks to drop 3% Only for Kleinman to riposte Twitter icon @Lord_Sugar Afraid you've got facts wrong: no correction of our story about Fitch and the UK banks. It has just been confirmed. 2.06pm: Lloyds Banking Group and Royal Bank of Scotland moved further away from their previously much coveted, pre credit crunch, AAA status after ratings agency Fitch confirmed the two banks would be downgraded. RBS and Lloyds were slapped with an A rating after Fitch said the insurance offered by the UK government had weakened and would cost more to fund. Fitch follows a similar move by Moody's, which cited the same reasons for downgrading the banks. Overall UK banks are in a better condition than many of their continental rivals after a strict regime of asset sales and cuts to risky operations. Massive write-downs on bad loans have also helped UK banks to shed many of the bad loans built up during the boom. But they remain vulnerable to the domino effect of failing banks inside the eurozone. Fitch said that while government support remained in place "the potential for the provision of extraordinary support for senior bank creditors is relatively less certain than before". Barclays also suffered. Fitch said the high street bank was well-run but was vulnerable to upsets from its investment banking arm Barclays Capital. It said: "Global trading and universal banks have business models that are particularly sensitive to market sentiment and confidence, that are complex and exposed to greater volatility." 1.37pm: lunchtime roundup: • There is a sense that EU leaders are talking more and in increasingly definite terms about solutions to the debt crisis and market traders are eyeing the situation warily. • Markets are going sideways and slightly lower, but not really giving up the gains of the last week. However the tone from the Bank of England's Charlie Bean and Martin Weale was decidedly downbeat yesterday and will weigh heavily for some time on investor sentiment and add to the gloom. • The ratings agency Fitch is planning to downgrade UK banks, according to reports • Exports improved, and the trade balance narrowed in August, but gains earlier this year in selling to China and other emerging markets appears to have reversed. See today's agenda 1.13pm: Blackberry said a few minutes ago that its mobile phone network is approaching normal service levels in Europe, India, middle east and Africa.The all important north American market is another matter and appears to still be suffering radio silence. Blackberry jokes have made little headway since the company suffered its weekend meltdown, which is understandable when one of the best lols follows the question "What did one BlackBerry user say to another BlackBerry user? Nothing!" Any better suggestions gratefully received. Live blog - market down 1.00pm: JPMorgan Chase is managing to keep its head above water. But the second-largest US bank needed a $1.9bn accounting gain to beat analysts expectations. Third-quarter net income fell to $4.26bn from $4.42bn in the same period a year earlier and $5.43bn in the second quarter. JPMorgan would have reported a loss for its investment bank without the change in liabilities, that some analysts termed a debt-valuation adjustment. Boss Jamie Dimon, 55, was quick to point out the investment banking business was hit with a 13% decline in revenue from the prior quarter. He said the accounting gain was an artificial boost and "does not relate to the underlying operations of the company," Shares in JPMorgan fell to $32.60 from $33.20 on the New York Stock Exchange yesterday. Bloomberg pointed out the shares are down 22% this year. 12.12pm: @zerozero is right to say EU politicians don't know which way to turn and have decided to talk their way through the problem. I disagree with those who argue weakness is the reason. The divided nature of European politics means there is not much give and take from taxpayer groups, especially those who can lay claim to a majority of savings assets in their bank accounts, pensions and property portfolios. The over 55s are a majority of voters and politicians represent their interests. Woe betide a politician who argues for policies that jeopardise asset values. Live blog - market down 11.47am: Joshua Raymond, chief market strategist at City Index believes the FTSE is now trading 44 points down on the day after the poor China data. Mining stocks are the big losers. It is the Chinese trade data that is the key drag and headline affecting trading today. Investor concerns regarding a slowdown in Chinese growth and underlying demand for metals has grown in the market turbulence since August and today's data has emphasised those fears. Chinese exports grew by 17.1% last month compared to a year earlier, slowing from Augusts' growth of 24.5%, whilst import growth also slowed to 20.9% from 30.2%, creating a trade surplus of $14.5bn last month. As a result we have seen investors use the Chinese data to lock in their profits after a very strong weeks' trade in mining companies that has seen the FTSE 350 mining sector rally 20%. Anglo American and Antofagasta shares lost 3% on the back of the profit taking. We could see further investor reaction in mining firms tomorrow morning too with the latest release of Chinese inflation data. Concerns over slowing growth in China is being exacerbated this year by the hawkish monetary policies adopted by the Chinese authorities to reign in spiralling inflation and so investors will use Fridays inflation data to better gauge likely next steps for Chinese monetary policy. 11.40am: Sky business editor Mark Kleinman reckons Fitch is poised to follow Moody's and downgrade the credit worthiness of UK banks. As with Moody's, the downgrade is based on a weaker covenant from the UK government, though the idea that having saved all our banks in 2008 we will let them go next time seems for the birds. 11.16am: Italy's bond auction was supported by the European Central Bank, which stepped in after the sale was complete to mop up unwanted bonds. The Italian treasury wanted to sell €6.5bn of bonds but found it could shift only €6.2bn and at a premium 5.87% yield for 10-year bonds. The yield, which determines the effective interest rate, was the highest the ECB has paid for Italian debt since it became a buyer in August, according to Reuters. Last month a major sale of Italian debt found very few buyers. It was the worst auction for more than 10 years in terms of the number of bidders. Silvio Berlusconi has been telling everyone he will survive a confidence vote later today and Rome's budget will break-even in 2013. We'll see. 11.07am: Inflation in Europe's largest economy - that's Germany - accelerated to the fastest in three years in September, led by energy costs. At 2.9% it hardly registers as inflation in UK terms, but Germany is different. It is hard to credit that the grandchildren and great grandchildren of those who lived through the hyper-inflation of the 1920s hold on to the paranoia of their forebears and won't let go. Why did the European Central Bank last week keep its benchmark interest rate at 1.5% when any sane central bank would have cut to 1% or less given the state of the entire eurozone economy? Why, because it is dominated by German anti-inflation thinking. Even the departure of two prominent German central bankers from the ECB board in recent months is unlikely to change the tone of debate in Frankfurt. 10.24am: Squandido makes an excellent point. Why should Portugal et al accept a write down on Greek debt and not enjoy the same privilege for themselves. After all, they are basket cases as well. There are so many commentators who call for eurocrats to get out their heavy artillery, a big bazooka is often referenced, to blast the problem. Kick out Greece. Make it default. Make private investors pay. Live blog - euro But they need to recognise that every way Brussels turns, there is another problem to confront. FT man Wolfgang Munchau made this point yesterday. 10.09am: UK Trade figures are in. They provide a more positive picture than expected after the deficit on seasonally adjusted trade in goods and services fell to £1.9bn in August from £2.3bn in July. The seasonally adjusted trade in goods fell to £7.8bn while the surplus in services pushed up to £5.9bn. The main reason for the smaller deficit is an increase in exports - up 1.3% on the previous month - that outstripped a small rise in imports - up 0.3%. Good to see we are enjoying the Irish crisis with a huge jump in goods sold to the Republic. China and Netherlands also bought more of our stuff, while the Germans, French and Americans bought less. The good news notwithstanding, there is a problem with trade figures these days because they can disguise more than they reveal now that multinationals export from one subsidiary to another not to sell goods, but to dodge local taxes and benefit from state subsidies. Also, Tesco is a big exporter to Ireland, but that just means shifting stock around from UK distribution centres to stores in Dublin, etc. Is that what we really mean by trade? Live blog: recap 9.25am: Here's the agenda for today … • All eyes will be on JPMorgan's Q3 results. The results are expected at 12pm London time and boss Jamie Dimon's words will be scrutinised for signs of gloom/optimism. • On the data front, Germany's CPI, UK's trade balance, and Spain's business confidence are some of the notable data releases in Europe. • In the US we have trade balance on top of the usual weekly jobless claims. • Italy's cabinet gets together today in the wake of their defeat in Parliament earlier this week. Berlusconi may seek a vote of confidence, though that requires the approval of the president to move ahead. • In London, the great and the good of the business world will be meeting at the annual CBI dinner. New boss John Cridland will speak and is expected to chastise the government for failing to support growth. London mayor Boris Johnson is the keynote and should trumpet the Olympics/Crossrail and all the many and various projects started by his predecessor or the previous government. • And London is gearing up for a weekend of banker bashing as the Occupy London Stock Exchange protest gets under way. Protesters inspired by the Occupy Wall Street movement in the US are planning on establishing a tent city in London's financial district. What will Boris make of that? • Chancellor George Osborne is keeping his head down as usual, probably paying more attention to the Liam Fox affair than the economy. Tomorrow he arrives in Paris for a G20 finance ministers meeting that is due to stagger into Saturday evening. Another weekend at No11 ruined. 8.59am: A groggy squint at a fuzzy Reuters screen led us to value the Italian bond sale today at €8bn when an eagle-eyed reader cannyinvestor points out it is worth €6.5bn. Still worth watching. 8.45am: Barclays Capital asks why Brussels' bank recapitalisation plans are so vague. In a note titled "Euro banks need a A Recap Or A 'Pre Cap'?: ... or why are banks raising capital?" it says the reasons to horde more capital are unclear. Recap or precap?: Is it because capital ratios are too low today - i.e. a recapitalisation - or is it a "pre cap", giving banks enough capital to manage the (remote) future risk of financial calamity from a default in the world's third largest bond market, Italy? So are today's capital ratios sufficient?: On a Basel (ie, RWA) basis European banks capital ratios are the same/stronger than US banks, suggesting little obvious need for recapitalisation. However, they are much weaker on a (non risk weighted) nominal basis, which may now be informing policy makers' views. We may be witnessing the further undermining of RWAs in Europe as the key balance sheet measure. The recap vs precap debate matters: If its a traditional recap to reflect low nominal leverage ratios, then its most likely going to be in the form of pure equity, which could see investors significantly diluted and - for parts of the sector - be a de facto nationalisation. If current capital ratios are seen as sufficient, however, then really it's a "pre cap", that could see capital in non equity/contingent forms that are loss absorbing, thus helping funding markets heal. That could partially or fully protect existing shareholders. Live blog: Helena Smith 8.41am: Oh, and here's a report from Athens by the Guardian's Helena Smith, who is wary of declaring the EU/Greek crisis over, especially as workers remain unhappy and willing to make life difficult for George Papandreou's struggling coalition. Shock and awe calls for shock and awe – or so say Greece's powerful unions who this morning stepped up strikes, walk-outs and work stoppages ahead of parliament voting on a new round of austerity measures demanded in exchange for aid by international creditors. With lighting speed protesting civil servants, transport employees, refinery workers, tax collectors, customs officials, hospital staff, archaeologists and school teachers have brought large parts of the country to a standstill. Militant unions at GENOP DEH, representing employees at the cash-strapped nation's Public Power Corporation, have added to rising tensions ahead of the vote by taking over the company's account department in a determined bid to prevent it from printing bills that would include a hugely unpopular property tax. We are not going to be part of this government's strategy to take everything away from us, our hard-earned rights, our dignity, our livelihood," said Nikos Fotopoulos who heads the union. "This is war." The reforms – which are expected to be voted through Athens 300-seat house ahead of the October 23 EU summit – have stirred outrage among increasingly disgruntled members of prime minister George Papandreou's ruling socialist Pasok party. A repeat of the fiery protests that accompanied passage of reforms in July could be in the offing. 8.39am: Anyone wanting to take something positive from recent EU announcements was most likely dismayed by EU commission president José Manuel Barroso's latest speech. He added to investor fears after he outlined a truly nonsensical solution to the debt crisis, which involves banks recapitalising themselves from their own resources. This means scrapping dividends and bonuses until such time as they, the banks, have reached a pre-determined level of reserves. Barroso is one of many EU officials who appears to believe there is free money lying around that can be used to rescue the eurozone project. Basically he's asking investors to pay, which has a strong moral argument behind it, but ignores the nature of mobile capital. The tax on financial transactions, the so-called Robin Hood tax, is another idea Barroso has championed, precisely because it appears to be free money, painlessly extracted from "the Financial System". The fact that any tax is paid by someone - in this case investors - who can choose to flee for another part of the world is lost on Barroso. The FT says banks will respond by selling off bits of themselves to raise capital rather than scrap dividends and bonuses or ask shareholders for more funds. Live blog - market down 8.23am: The FTSE is down more than 20 points , joining other European markets in a wait and see mode. There is a general sell-off in London, with some notable exceptions – those being Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds Banking Group, advertising group WPP, Tesco and ITV. 7.46am: There is a warm breeze blowing from the east. Asian markets, buoyed by the sightly improved mood in Europe, continued their recent rally. Japan's Nikkei rose to a four week high on hopes that the Dexia bank rescue deal earlier in the week and renewed resolve among EU politicians will prevent a eurozone collapse. Shares in Sony and other major Japanese manufacturers, hammered last month on fears of a global downturn, led the rally. Cameron Peacock, market analyst at IG Markets, said in an early morning note that Hong Kong's Hang Seng was the region's best performer, higher by 1.3%, while the Nikkei 225 rose 1.2% to 8,839. He said: "With US markets enjoying another night of solid gains it is not surprising to see that strength playing out across the local market. Gains for the day are relatively broad based and once again being led by the cyclical materials, industrial and energy sectors. The financial sector is also enjoying a modest advance, with losses limited to the consumer staples, utilities and information technology sectors." China's trade balance closed last month, which is a double edged sword, as ever. It is an indication of global slowdown, but also pleases the US, which has threatened a trade war without strong action from prime minister Wen Jaibao's. Looks like a lack of demand for Chinese goods may have delayed that particular day of reckoning. In Europe, the eagerly awaited Slovakian vote on the eurozone's EFSF bailout looks like being delayed until tomorrow, but the picture is still uncertain, so more on that later. An €8bn auction of Italian debt was also making traders wary. A poor response from investors will add to the problems already facing Silvio Berlusconi's administration. The FTSE is expected to follow Asia and continue its recent surge, though futures markets predict continental exchanges will fall back, with Germany's Dax futures down 0.4% and the Paris CAC down 0.3%. Today's best video	http://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/2011/oct/13/euro-debt-crisis-live-blog	<urn:uuid:98f5b308-d9fb-4b07-b19b-e57372a787c0>	en	0.960332	0.018304
Gold Cup Final USA 1-0 Panama - as it happened • USA edge Panama to win Gold Cup • Brek Shea gets winning goal in tense final Landon Donovan USMNT Panama Gold Cup Landon Donovan shows his frustration at a first half miss. In the second half his goalbound shot would be touched home by Brek Shea to ultimately win the USA the Gold Cup. Photograph: KAMIL KRZACZYNSKI/EPA Sort by: • Latest first • Oldest first Auto update: • On • Off Final Thoughts It wasn't the same game the US have played for most of this tournament, though it's probably unfair to compare a balanced Panama side with the lack of ambition Costa Rica showed in their 5-4-1 group game. The Panamanians did everything they could to execute a simple but effective game plan. Their center backs were outstanding throughout and the US were unable to get a clean shot on goal in the first half. But the USA came out for the second half on the front foot. Donovan drifted wide and Diskerud edged further forward and Panama found themselves stretched. A neat ball from Parkhurst was met by some excellent reaction and a neat touch by Donovan, and but for Shea's last minute touch we'd have been talking about Donovan's goal capping a tournament that way surpassed personal redemption and reminded us of what he's capable of at his best. As it was, the 2013 Gold Cup will be remembered for Donovan's re-emergence. The loss of Holden was a blow, but the seamless introduction of Diskerud reminded us of the other story of this US tournament: depth and team understanding. Rare is the moving part that doesn't have a serviceable replacement. The USA are deserving champions and Klinsmann has some pleasant headaches when he goes back to look at his first choice team sheet. Thanks for all your tweets and emails. Sorry I couldn't use them all. Till next time, good evening. Klinsmann strides down onto the field and is pumping his fists as he goes to join the throng of celebrating players. Beasley runs to the American outlaws to celebrate, while his team mates, including the welcome sight of Holden among them, celebrate in the middle of the field. Nice touch as Landon Donovan is shown consoling the exhausted members of the Panama squad — this has been his tournament, and the winning goal was all but his, but he shows a lot of class in seeking out the individual players of a Panama team who just came up short at the last. USA WIN THE GOLD CUP! Final thoughts in a moment... 90 mins +4 She and Jimenez clash heads wide left and the US player is booked. More long balls forward. More balls hoofed clear. And that will be that! 90 mins +3 Klinsmann making his way down from the executive box now, as Johnson goes down unde rpressure wide left, and takes his time getting up. 90 mins +2 Another ball lumped in to the box and Gonzalez forces the ball clear again, at the expense of a big knock to his face. 90 mins +1 Minor melee around that Johnson incident. he went head to head with Parris to prompt it. Panama launching a free kick from their own half, but Gonzalez does his job and heads it clear. 90 mins Omar Gonzalez is about to come on for the US. He's on for Bedoya, to counter the Panama gambit of throwing optimistic high balls into the box. Johnson down winded after a challenge, but he's back on his feet. He's had to adapt to a physical battle this afternoon. In fact now he gets a yellow for retaliating... We'll have four minutes of time added on by the way. Don't go anywhere. 88 mins Eric Calhoun emails: "The USMNT go from having Shea running in unopposed on goal to passing all the way back to the keeper w/out losing position. I'm not sure that's what fans had in mind when dreaming of Klinsi's pretty possession football." Not sure pretty possession football is the priority for most fans right now, Eric. Tension building here. Panama have four men up front trying to force...something. They're briefly open on the counter as Rimando throws it out, but Panama regroup and the US settle for holding on to the ball. 86 mins Panama pressure now and a Quintero cross causes some panic with Panama bodies thrown forward. A sequence of Panama balls into the box follow, and is ended when Beckerman is fouled as he treis to shield his defense. This is set up very nicely for the last few minutes. 84 mins A frustrated Perez brings down Goodson in the Panama half and the US have possession right where they want it. Shea, who looks confident after his goal, works some space on the left and sends a hard, low cross to the back post where Eddie Johnson puts it over, when to do so looked much harder than bursting the net from a few yards out. 82 mins The goal opens up for Shea after a beautiful through ball from Donovan, but Shea takes a poor first touch, and while he does well to keep the move going, Panama get men back and regroup. Shea keeps running though, and he and Beasley almost create an opening on the corner of the box. He's putting himself around up front against a tiring Panama. 80 mins Thus far in this tournament, the US team have chosen attack as the best form of defense. How will they play this last ten minutes? Well they have a set piece to defend after an awkward kick out from Rimando catches Beasley's hand. It's curled in and Goodson and Perez go for it together. Foul by the Panama player, and the US breathe again. USA 1-0 Panama. 78 mins That's a dreadful ball from the right by, I think, Sanchez, as Panama finally get men forward, and Rimando will take a goal kick at his leisure. Panama understandably beginning to push up now, but that will leave space for the likes of what just happened — a break with Johnson and Donovan almost linking to get the ball behind the Panama defense. 76 mins Blackburn in for Gomez as Panama try to chase the game in the last quarter of an hour. Can they get back in this? Long searching ball from a free kick in their own half ends up with Beckerman hoofing the ball clear and then Shea forces Torres back deep in his own half to keep Panama pinned. 74 mins Classic "vulnerability after a goal" moment as the US labor to clear a corner and the ball falls for a first time shot from Chen, who can't get his shot on target, but causes enough consternation to remind the USA they haven't won this yet. A lot of credit to Donovan on the goal. His dart to the near post made it. And his flick was headed in, albeit slowly, when Shea hammered it over the line. 72 mins The USA attack again, as is their won't, and Johnson's header is defected over. Donovan plays the corner short to Beasley on the corner of the box, but his shot flies over. The cross for the goal was from Parkhurst by the way. And Shea scored 42 seconds after coming on. Positively sluggish by current USA sub standards. KLINSISUBGOL! A ball in from the right of the box is touched goalward by Donovan, and with the ball about to cross the line, the US sub Shea races in to touch it the last few inches — and we have a finale! 68 mins ...inches. Beautiful dangerous ball from Donovan and Corona's touch just glances it past the post, though Chen's hands were in the mix and could have given the ref a decision to make if there'd been contact there. Shea comes in for Corona. 66 mins Klinsi watch: He has his arms folded and looks anxious now. Goodson's long ball is intended for Bedoya, but cut out by Rodriguez. Noise in the stadium building vaguely now — a little like the US attack. But now there's a half chance through a set piece wide right as Parkhurst is clattered by Quintero. Shea coming in. 64 mins Jimenez is about to come on for Panama. Now there's an awkward clash as Donovan lands awkwardly on a challenge from Torres. He wants a free kick, but he's waved away by the referee after a slight pause in play. And Jimenez comes on - surprisingly it's for the dangerous Torres, though he's not done a lot in this game. 62 mins Donovan dispossessed as he tries to force his way through on the left, but Diskerud is alert to the turnover and that's a really smart interception to stall the Panama counter. He's done well for sure. Now Bedoya picks up a yellow for going in sharply on Quintero. 60 mins News from the world of international diplomacy, as AJ Fussell emails: "Mom from Panama, Dad from USA. No contest though - USA for the win, Donovan to score. Come on Yanks!" It is still a contest though — USA 0-0 Panama after an hour. Fascinating stage of the game right now. The USA finding space when they commit men forward, and Panama reminding them in flashes of their potency on the counter. 58 mins Sanchez tries a ball over the top to relieve pressure for Panama but it's turned straightover and the US send Johnson down the left. But Chen and Torres stand very very strong to force him out. 56 mins Diskerud has done well to be a fulcrum of US attacking play in this half, and Donovan has drifted out to the right to find some space to run at the defense. So far it's rewarding the US with pressure higher up the field and now they have another great chance as Beasley gets to the byline and crosses from the left. It's met by a thumping Donovan header at the near post that flies wide. In truth he should have done better, but this is all adding to the perception that this is THE phase of the game for the US right now. 54 mins Replays show that the ball definitely struck a hand, but whether it was deliberately left there to catch any incoming ball is moot, at least in the eyes of the assistant referee. That was a potentially big call though. 52 mins Slight lull as Panama have a throw they're in no rush to take after recent US pressure, but now there's some real controversy as Donovan's surging run and cross ends in the ball deflecting off a defender's trailing arms to block the ball. Donovan is furious and wants a handball, and up in his skybox Klinsmann is mouthing something unspeakable. Nothing doing though. 50 mins Johnson picks up the ball in the left corner and he and Beasley almost work an opening, then Diskerud picks up the baton and hits a firm cross across the box, that Chen does well to get clear. The US asking questions at the start of this half. Still USA 0-0 Panama though 48 mins Perez takes an airshot as he attempts an overhead and USA force their way forward, picking up a free kick as Donovan catches a stray elbow from Gomez. From the free kick Bedoya gets some space out wide, but his low cross is cleared by Rodriguez. Better now though as Diskerud picks up another foul on the right side of the field a few yards outside the box. Donovan can whip this in. He does, and Goodson is inches away from connecting with his header. He claims he was pushed as he went up for the ball. That was a decent chance for the US to open the second half with. Holden's knee injury has been described as a sprain by the way. So sad for the player, but hopefully not disastrous. Panama kick off. More social media This conservative mindset will not win trophies... The tone and style of play needs to be ratcheted up. Get in there Jurgen #USMNT @KidWeil — Rusty (@bussruckley) July 28, 2013 Given the suspension, he may have to disguise himself as Kyle Beckerman's brother, but I guess that would break the bounds of conservatism. Meanwhile the brains trust are on the case: @KidWeil I would say an improvement would be for Donovan to get the ball on the outside crossing to EJ in the middle. Not like the 1st half. — Eric M. Calhoun (@bullcitysports) July 28, 2013 Soon find out. We'll be off again in a second. Half-time twitter There was a moment just before the half where Julio Dely Valdes was giving it the full "Klinsmann protest" on the sideline. Needless to say this has stirred Twitter into paroxysms of intrigue: @KidWeil Watch it, referee: Julio Dely Valdes has an IDENTICAL TWIN BROTHER, Jorge, as an assistant on the bench #panamanianswitcheroo — Ben (@dickersonpk) July 28, 2013 That telenovela is simmering nicely. Expect Klinsmann to remove his mask to reveal he is in fact a third brother sometime around the 87th minute. Meanwhile, on a more serious note: @kidweil is Donovan struggling with talll Pan backs? — Jordi Comas (@jordisunshine) July 28, 2013 It's not so much their height, though that hardly helps, as where they're putting it. This is a very well organized defense. The few crosses that have come in from the US are the type that have caused havoc against lesser opponents and been dealt with pretty comfortably by the Panama team. Half-time thoughts So a frustrating half for USA as Panama executed a well-drilled game plan. The Panamanian backline was wise to the US propensity for looking for space behind and communicated and defended well, while Quintero delivered several moments of menace, if not results, as he transitioned the team into counter-attacks. In truth, sad as the loss of Holden was, it wasn't as if he, or anyone else, had really made their mark on the final. The US had an overwhelming possession advantage, but very few looks at goal. Donovan is yet to find an effective space to work in and while he and Johnson are constantly looking for each other when the ball does come forward, as of yet they haven't given Penedo, in the Panama goal, a lot to do. Don't expect the dynamic to change much in the second half unless the US can force an early goal that forces Panama to come out more. Half-time: USA 0-0 Panama Half-time thoughts in a moment. 45 mins+1 USA looking frustrated right now, but at least it's driving them forward a little at the moment. Bedoya wriggles his way through traffic looking for an opening, but Panama hold firm and as the USA regroup for another look, the referee blows for half time. 45 mins Perez appeals for a foul in the box as a long throw is worked towards him. No call, but this referee has been a little whistle happy so far. We'll have a minute of added time. 43 mins Decent chance for USA as Bedoya chests a ball down into space on the edge of the box, and for a second the goal is gaping in front of him. But he can only find a deflected shot, and Parris sprints across goal to pick up on the loose ball. 40 mins Parris and Corona clash heads as they go for a ball. Both wincing but on their feet. Half time looming as a tense final unfolds. it's rattled by fairly quickly without providing much in the way of goalmouth action. Now there's something of a chance as the US have a free kick right of center midway inside the Panama half. It's put into the mixer, as they say, and Besler gets a soft shot off that's muddled clear by the Panama defense. Then Donovan is penalized rather harshly as he catches up with the breaking Quintero. Still USA 0-0 Panama 38 mins Twitter stirs again. This time with some sympathy for Holden. @KidWeil @guardian I'd have rather seen us lose than stu holden go down again. that kid's worked too hard for this kind of luck — leopold bloom (@leopoldbloom16) July 28, 2013 Really hoping it's not a significant setback and that his dismay was more to do with the game at hand rather than Holden's long term prognosis. He did look distraught as he came off. Johnson battles in traffic down the right and does well to allow the US to keep possession. Possession that goes nowhere. Shot of Klinsmann on his feet in the box he's watching from. He looks faintly frustrated. 36 mins Bedoya cuts inside and shoots from distance, with the ball looping off his marker and landing for a corner. Can the US make more of this one? Well it goes deep for once, and it's won by a US player, but Johnson can't find the space for his attempted overhead kick as the ball bounces. A little better. 34 mins USA have 77% possession against a Panama side happy to defend. but who've looked threatening when they get to choose their moments to come forward. Beckerman tries to loop a disguised ball over the top for Donovan, but the move breaks down. 32 mins Parkhurst trots forward with the ball, then steps on it and looks for a ball. None on, so he recycles it back and the US knock it around the back some more, hoping for an opening. They need to be more proactive though. Johnson eventually tries to find Donovan but Roman Torres anticipates very well to cut the ball out in the box. 30 mins Gabriel Torres is down after meeting a wonderful whipped in cross from the left with the frontal area of his shorts. He's now down clutching said frontal area while being booed by the crowd. Lovely stuff. USA 0-0 Panama 28 mins Donovan's near post corner is headed clear by Perez to Quintero, who's the dangerous transition man for Panamanian counters. Beckerman recovers well to snuff out any danger. Donovan has been easing into the game as he gets a reading on where the (very little) space is. His attempted first time flick is just cut out before it reaches Johnson. Right idea. 26 mins Panama looking, as we would expect, very organized at the back and stifling the play, though the US defense are playing their part in ensuring this isn't a free-flowing game. Bedoya the latest to run foul of the referee, though Panama can;t do anything from the free kick. A minute later the US finally get some space out wide and Bedoya's low cross has to be cut out for a corner. 24 mins Time to catch up with Twitter... @KidWeil #USAvPAN hope Stu is okay, but for me Diskerud has been the better player in this Cup and might be the guy to unlock Panama — John Feeley (@FeeleyJ) July 28, 2013 And on the real burning issue of the day: Who's got the biggest daddy? @KidWeil Julio Dely Valdes looks even more capable than Klinsi of doffing his coach's civvies and knocking in a couple — Ben (@dickersonpk) July 28, 2013 He does look in very good shape. 22 mins Holden looking devastated on the sidelines now as Diskerud prepares to come in. Diskerud has done well so far in this tournament and should be able to step in well. But that's a blow to a US team who as of yet have not imposed themselves in this game. 20 mins Holden's knee being examined, which is a real worry for the US. He didn't look in too much serious discomfort but he's off the field and of course he's been out with an injury to that knee for a long, long time, so any incident is going to spark worry. That said, Diskerud is warming up and may come in. Ten man USA holding the ball as they ponder this development. USA 0-0 Panama 18 mins US working some slightly unthreatening possession in the Panama half, looking for a glimpse of an opening. For a second there's space for Johnson wide left, and when the ball comes in, the two Panama center backs get in the way of each other and Donovan is just dispossessed by Quintero as the ball lands at his feet six yards out. Corner is punched clear and suddenly the US have to defend as Quintero sprints free down the left. He's stopped but possibly at the expense of an injury to Holden. 16 mins An error by Goodson gives Panama a throw in the US half, which they promptly waste. But they regroup in advance of the US attack, and have plenty of confidence in how they're set up with opponents attacking from in front of them. As yet the US haven't been able to pull the Panama defense out of position. And Donovan has been very quiet. 14 mins That was a better sequence from the US as they finally tried to squeeze a little pace into their approach play - if rather crudely at this stage. They press up again and Holden tries to release Johnson with a flicked change of direction on the edge of the box, but it's too hard for the Seattle man to pick up. 12 mins Route 1 towards Johnson by Goodson and Panama struggle to get the ball clear. They look to have managed it, only for Holden to nick the ball and try a quick shot from outside the box. It's nowhere near goal though. 10 mins A little Panama pressure now as Goodson has to head clear a free kick, then Panama break the US offside trap and Gomez whips a cross over that Parkhurst has to put behind, with Roman Torres, the dengerous center back, lurking at the back post. Sanchez hits his shot from the corner high and wide. USA 0-0 Panama 8 mins Parkhurst gets a little knock as the speedy Quintero tries to go round him on the outside. He concedes a throw that's lofted long — way long. Out for a goal kick. Rimando takes a pass back and shuffles the ball to his other foot and passes it calmly out. He's confident with the ball at his feet. Now Panama fashion a half chance as Sanchez work hard to get a cross in towards Perez, that Besler has to be alert to clear. 6 mins Ball gusting around a little in the wind whenever it's off the ground. Neither team able to create a clear chance yet in a cagey start. Beasley already giving a couple of signs that he's itching to get forward on his flank when he can, but no real openings for him yet. 4 mins Justin Kavanagh writes in with a helpfully disturbing image of the US coach: "Speaking of Jurgen giving it the full John Terry, do you think he ever finds himself in the midst of a cross-cultural identity crisis and leaves the house in lederhosen worn over a Californian surfer's wetsuit? Now that would merit a month on the naughty step." As someone who regularly looks like a rodeo clown as imagined in a Lucky Charms ad, I can't possibly comment. Panama try a punt forward from a free kick, but it's pretty optimistic and the US cheerfully clear it. 2 mins USA starting to knock the ball around and forcing Panama to chase early. Which it's decent weather for, not that they'll want to do that for sustained periods. Panama that is... First wide shot of the stadium shows a fair few empty seats higher up, and we're underway. USA kick off. Nice and cool at kick off (68 degrees and breezy) - perfect soccer weather. Klinsi watch: Jurgen appears behind a window, apparently reading a novel. Lots of handshakes, it being a final. After both teams have been formally greeted by the entire population of Chicago (apparently), Panama's "Himno Istmeno" rings out, with slightly over-amplified off-key singing from the Panamanian contingent, and some hastily muted booing from the strongly pro-US crowd. Then the US anthem is belted out. For what it's worth Kyle Beckerman, who occasionally looks like he's just remembered something urgent he forgot to do during these occasions, looks very relaxed as the camera passes him by. We'll be off in a second... get ready to read the word "PEEP!" Twitter weighs in @KidWeil an early goal will be important today for the US. The longer it says at 0-0, the more more confidant Panama will get! — Stevie P (@irish_steve) July 28, 2013 Twitter may have been drinking. Though the thought of a Panama team listening to the USA team huddle coyly sharing their secrets is a rather sweet thought. Anthems imminent. Will nobody think of the touts? This is not the day to be making your fortune selling tickets on the secondary market in Chicago. USA v Mexico was the game most were expecting at this stage, if only because of recent tournament history, if not Mexico's recent indifference form. Both those two teams have shared the last six Gold Cup titles, and such a final was expected to be a pretty evenly contested final off the field in terms of partisan fan presence, as much as on it. The prospect of the fans of Los Canaleros filling in the places that would have been occupied by fans of El Tri for a game against the old enemy is rather remote, so we should be seeing a pretty strong pro-US crowd today. But perhaps that will suit a Panama team who, according to their coach, have got this far, “without making much noise.” Team News USA: Rimando; Parkhurst, Goodson, Besler, Beasley; Beckerman, Holden; Bedoya, Donovan, Corona; E. Johnson Panama: Penedo; Rodriguez, Chen, Torres, Parris; Sanchez, Godoy, Gomez, Quintero; Torres, Perez Pretty attacking looking line up from Panama, which may encourage the USA as much as anything. They seem to fancy their chances toe-to-toe. Johnson starts again, so the Wondolowski revival remains in the balance, and despite mutterings that Gonzalez might replace Goodson, the latter did more than enough to keep his place for the final and stays alongside Besler at the heart of defense. Meanwhile Beckerman and Holden will alternately anchor the midfield and prompt the movement ahead of them. Bedoya and Corona continue the attacking midfield shuffle either side of Donovan. Torres misses out. For the US that is. The dangerous Gabriel Torres starts for Panama. The Naughty Step No Jurgen Klinsmann on the sidelines for this game. The Concacaf disciplinary committee confirmed his touchline ban yesterday, for his “overboiling” in the semi-final, which saw him sent to the stands at the end of that game. Will that make a difference to the US today? It’s certainly the nearest we’ve had to a serious setback for the USA’s campaign so far — which may tell you everything you need to know about the level of challenge they have faced in getting here. Personally I hope that Klinsmann uses this opportunity to think about what he’s done really go off-piste with his fashion choices. Even when muzzled by official duties, he’s been known to break out a star-spangled polo shirt or somesuch. Today may be the day he goes full tilt in American Outlaw facepaint (if the US win he can always change into some red and white striped slacks for the trophy ceremony, in a John Terry style) Don’t forget to write in with your tweets to @KidWeil and emails to with the subject line “John Terry is more of an Englishman than you’ll ever be”— at which point I will take my place on Jurgen Klinsmann’s recently vacated naughty step and think about what I've done. Aside from 2005 and all that, Panama have plenty to make them believe they can do something today. The likes of Roman Torres will have been watching the US vulnerability from crosses and set pieces with extreme interest, following his headed winner against Mexico in the semis, while Blas Perez (or to give him his full name Blas “also absent from the FC Dallas line up tonight due to injury/suspension/international duty” Perez) has the presence to cause plenty of havoc in the box as well. The watchword for this Panama team is defense however, as it should be against what’s been a freeflowing US attack. In common with most of the teams here, Panama don’t have their first team squad at this tournament, so Torres’s usual other half in a formidable center back partnership, the Santos player Felipe Baloy isn’t here. Nor do they have the creativity of Armando Cooper, or the number 10 play of Barahona. It’s still a strong side relative to many team’s choice of second string players though, and what they do have was more than enough for Mexico and this will not be a side content to settle for the long odds rope-a-dope strategy that nobody’s yet been able to pull off against the US in this tournament. So what are the caveats about this all-conquering USA team? Well, the “all” that they’ve “conquered” have rarely been well enough equipped to ask questions of a US midfield tilted towards attack (compared to the two defensive midfielders Klinsmann has tended to favor against stronger opposition). The US have also had the benefit of Landon Donovan in inspirational form in that regard. Occasionally that slight change of balance in the middle ripples out to a little instability on the outside, as Parkhurst and Beasley get forward down the flanks and leave space behind them. Despite most teams they play only having one out-and-out striker, said strikers have occasionally been able to find space in and around the back of the US defense, especially meeting balls coming in from out wide. In fairness the US have been pretty brutal about suppressing such rare insurrections - they’ve scored the last goal (or three) in every game so far, including an immediate reply when Honduras pulled back to 2-1 in the semi-final. They’re favorites for a reason, though also justifiably wary of a dangerous Panama side, who should be a tougher challenge again than anyone they’ve faced. Welcome to the Gold Cup final between USA and Mexico Panama. Live from Soldier Field, Chicago. Fair to say, this wasn’t the final we were expecting, but probably equally fair to say both finalists deserve to be here. The US for their freescoring overwhelming of the opposition en route to the final (they’ve outscored the opposition 19 goals to 4), and Panama fro being in the half of the draw containing pre-tournament favorites to make the final, Mexico, and beating them in both the group stages and the semi-finals to ensure that this game is neither an opportunity for a Mexican “threepeat” or US catharsis for their defeats to Mexico in the last two finals. but it is a chance for the Panamanians to achieve some catharsis of their own. Eight years ago, Panama played the USA to a goalless draw in the final, only to lose on penalties (including one missed by the twin brother of today’s coach Julio Dely Valdes — in a plotline stolen from the great soccer telenovela that never was). They weren’t facing a US side in quite such imperious form as the current squad, with their ten wins in a row, but as Mexico can ruefully testify, the present day Panama team is not a side here to make up the numbers either. They’re still in the World Cup picture and looking a decent bet to make a run at Hex qualifying, though they did have the misfortune to come up against the first choice US team in some of their best recent form and in front of a wildly partisan crowd in Seattle last month The highlights from that game are below. In the meantime you can check out Elliott Turner’s preview of the final, and Matthew Tomaszewicz, whose posts as The Shin Guardian occasionally crop up in the Guardian blog network, also has a very nice preview of the final Plough through that little lot, watch the highlights of the last game, prep for a pop quiz on anthem lyrics, send your tweets to @KidWeil, send your emails to, then put your pencils down and face the front and I'll be back shortly. • I Am The Secret Footballer Small Graphic Today's best video	http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/28/usa-panama-live-gold-cup-final	<urn:uuid:b0367e90-306e-4ce2-ae8c-3b6e267ad127>	en	0.966049	0.020582
And here it is...the very LAST chapter of this story. I still find it hard to believe that six months ago all I had were the first two chapters waiting on my computer, uncertain if I should even post them; and then here we are! Six months later with a story totaling 67,010 words! I just wanted to say thank you all very, very, very much to everyone who has read this story, with a special thanks to those who have been around since the beginning and those who have commented. Every time I got a comment it made me want to keep writing (so please let me know what you liked or didn't like about my story. I am very eager to hear about everyone's thoughts now that the story is over). I hope you all enjoy the finale as much as I enjoyed writing it. It's kind of sad that this story has come to a close, but all good things must come to an end. Also, for anyone interested, I have another novel-length fanfiction in the works for the HP genre. I am uncertain as to when it will be up (strongly depending on my situation with field classes and when I'm getting back to Canada and a stable internet connection), so if you are at all interested in reading another one of my stories, please add me to author alert and I'll keep you posted :) (the story is a continuation of my oneshot Memories insert shameless self promoting here Go check it out!) Thanks again for a great time writing, The End – Part 2 : Two Weeks Later : It was turning into an ugly night Harry decided as he made his way down the hall to the front door. Whoever was calling on them that night in this storm was right mental. Opening the door, Harry met the blue eyes of someone he'd never met before. "Hello…" The man started, looking down at the address written on the piece of rain soaked paper in front of him. "Are you Mister Potter?" Harry nodded. "Yes, and you are?" The man let out a sigh of relief. "I'm Devon Abbotsford. I'm so glad I-" He never got the chance to finish his sentence before Harry's fist connected with his left eye. "You'll have to forgive my husband." Hermione apologized as she handed Devon the bag of peas. "He tends to be a mite protective over our daughters." She smiled at him too sweetly. "Just be glad Page wasn't the one answer the door tonight. You probably wouldn't have gotten off as easily as with only a black eye." Harry glared at the boy sitting at his table and began pacing back and forth in the kitchen. He didn't like the way the boy swallowed hard at the weakly veiled threat, nor the way he kept wincing as he put the cold package to his eye. Harry hated weak people. "Why are you even here?" Harry snapped as he made a loop. "Haven't you caused enough damage yet?" "I just want to talk to Avery." Devon insisted. "She never came home." Harry took a deep breath, doing his best to contain his anger. "So you wait two weeks before you go looking forward to her?" Devon looked back and forth between the visibly angry Mister Potter, and the icy calm Missus Potter who kept tapping her wand menacingly against her folded up arms. He wasn't sure who he was suddenly afraid more of. "It's not my fault!" He argued. "Avery never told me where you lived. I've spent the last two weeks searching for her. I only just finally managed to find your address. It's not like you were in the regular house registry of the UK." "And why would you want to talk to her?" Harry asked. "You made it very clear last time how you felt about people of our nature." Devon put down the bag of peas and stared at a spot on the floor. "What I said last time was a mistake. I was surprised and didn't know how to react. I am to blame." He looked back up to see Harry watching him very intensely. "I would do anything to take it back." He insisted. "I just need to talk to her." Harry's eyes flickered momentarily to Hermione. Devon followed their eyes. Something that he had said held a special meaning to the pair of them. Hermione gave Harry a small nod and left the room. Harry moved towards Devon and took a seat in front of him. This time he approved of how the boy flinched as he pulled the chair closer. Harry liked that he was afraid of him. "Now you listen to me. If I'm going to tell you where she is, it does in no way mean that I forgive you. And it most definitely does not mean that Avery will forgive you. What it does mean is that I know exactly what a mistake feels like." Harry's voice became lower, memories from long ago peaked out of their crevasses. "And if I hadn't been given that second chance back then, then my life would never have become what it is today. Even now I sometimes think back to that day I walked out and instead of coming back I just kept walking. To this day, it is still my greatest fear." Devon stared at Avery's father with a slight new respect. On one hand, he utterly terrified him and now knew that he had a heck of a right jab. But on the other hand, it appeared that if Mister Potter was anything, he was fair. Harry fixed his eyes on Devon through his glasses and watched him for a moment before taking a piece of paper off the table and one of the auto-quills that didn't require an ink pot. He wrote down Page's address and slid the piece of paper across the table to Devon. "Be warned though," He answered in all seriousness. "Just because you have the address, it doesn't mean that you'll be able to find Page's house. She's worked very hard to avoid detection. Unless you're welcomed in, you could walk right past it and never know." Devon looked up from the paper with confusion in his eyes. "Then how am I supposed to find Avery?" Harry stood up. "You don't give up. Ever." Devon felt as if he had been walking in circles for at least an hour. He had set the GPS in his car for the town the minute he had climbed in and shut the door. Much to his frustration, the little box on his dash informed him that such a location did not exist. Fighting with the map he had stored under his seat, Devon made a decision on a direction and went from there. Evidently Harry's idea of directions consisted of a town name and then the words As soon as you come across the large limestone boulder, you're almost there. Devon held the map above his head to try and block the rain as he stared down the road. Much to his frustration, there were twenty large limestone boulders, none of which were in front of a house. Right at the point where Devon was about to give up and come back in the morning something solid was pressed into his back rather roughly. "Who are you and what are you doing in front of my house?" A deep voice threatened him. Devon immediately threw his hands up in defense, sending the map flying. "Don't shoot! Don't shoot! I have no idea where I am." "Don't shoot?" The voice asked quizzically from behind him before it started to laugh. "Oh! You must be the muggle." The thing in his back disappeared as a man walked in front of him. The man held out his hand. "My name is Christopherson. I'm married to Avery's sister." Devon took a sigh of relief as he shook the more-or-less normal looking man. "You should come in." Chris dropped his hand and made his way to one of the boulders. "You'll die of pneumonia if you wait out here." Devon followed behind him eagerly. "You don't know how relieved I am to meet one of your kind who isn't threatening my life." Christopherson stopped in front of a boulder that reminded Devon of a sleeping wolf, and turned around to face him. He had a smile on his face that made Devon's blood run cold. "Don't thank me yet…" He answered too cheerfully. "The only reason you're still standing here is because I promised Page that she'd get first dibs." He kicked the boulder and suddenly a two story house flickered into view. Christopherson walked up the front steps and opened the door with a flick of his wand. "Well?" He called back to the fear struck Devon. "Are you going to come in?" Honestly, there was nothing Devon wanted to do less. Apparently the Potter family and everyone associated with them were all sociopaths. But…Devon took a deep breath and started up the stairs. This was the way to Avery. Devon followed behind Chris like a puppy behind its new master. He was terrified that the house would swallow him whole if he took a step out of the path. Chris was approximately the same height as Devon but the stark differences in their physic made Devon feel incredibly self-conscious. He had always been lean, but Page's husband looked as if he could bench press his skinny body without a drop of effort. His brown hair was longer in the front then the back and was slicked back in a stylish way. He also had blue eyes, but unlike Devon's, Chris' eyes were the colour of blue ice; clear and piercing in a way Devon couldn't even describe. Avery had always been very vague with what it was exactly that her sister and her sister's husband did for a living. One look at Christopherson though, plus the stories he had heard about Page, Devon did not doubt in any way that whatever it was that they did it would be considered illegal in his world. "We're here." Christopherson announced suddenly, stopping in front of a pair of large doors. He looked back at Devon who was nearly shaking. "You'll have to talk to Page before you can even consider seeing Avery." Devon nodded his acknowledgement. Talking a deep breath he took a step past the highly intimidating gentleman and pushed the doors forward. As he entered the room, he heard the doors click behind him, singling that he was very much locked in the room until they decided to release him. He had been expecting a room perfect for a mafia boss. Something full of dark, rich colours, oil paintings on the walls, and a wing back chair where Page would be lounging in, stroking a fluffy white cat as she laid down her warnings. Instead what he got was a white room done up in a shabby chic design with pale blue accents, Devon tip-toed in a little further. He didn't know what was scaring him more, the fact that Page, the Master of Deception, had a soft spot for china tea cups and lace or that there was what appeared to be a hit-list book of names on her desk. Devon nearly jumped a foot in the air when he heard the door open again. That's when he came face to face with Page. He was taken aback by the first sight of her. She was quite possibly the smallest woman he had ever seen. He had always thought that Avery was quite short at 5'4", but if her sister made 5 feet, then she was lucky. The second thing he noticed was how she was dressed. She was dressed in a long emerald green silk dress with a slit that exposed more than a little bit of her pale thigh and had a hem that just brushed against the floor. Her mid-length black hair was softly curled and set up off of her neck, and her eyes were fixated on him from behind the pair of small half-rimmed glasses on her face. She looked pretty enough, Devon decided, in a 1920s Hollywood way, but there was nothing about her that struck fear into his heart in the way he had been anticipating. That was until she started speaking. "You'd better have a good reason for being here." Her voice drifted over the room, cutting into him like ice needles in a blizzard. She sat down in one of the vintage French design chairs and pressed her fingers together. "Today is my one year anniversary." She informed him. "So, I repeat…." She fixed her eyes on Devon through her glasses, freezing him to the spot. "If you do not have a good reason for being in my house, I swear that I will take you out." Devon swallowed hard and brought out ever last piece of courage he had. He had read somewhere that when you're facing someone tougher then you, you need to pretend to be tough as well….or was that for bears? "I'm not afraid of you." He answered back. A smirk came to Page's lips as she slowly stood up. Pressing her hands together momentarily, when she pulled them apart her wand materialized out of thin air. "I was really, really hoping you'd be up for playing. Good boy…." She purred as she advanced towards Devon who stumbled back a step and nearly knocked over a lamp. "Hey Page…" Avery walked into the study, her face stuck in a notebook in front of her and a different coloured pen behind each ear. "Before you leave I have to ask-" Looking up, Avery stopped midsentence when she saw her younger sister holding her wand to her ex-boyfriend. At this point Avery had two choices she could make. One, she could calmly and coolly scold her sister for taking advantage of a foolish muggle who was underestimating just how scary her little sister really was. OR, two, she could run like hell out of there. She chose the latter. Dropping her notebook, Avery turned and booked it out of the room. Devon stole a look at Page, whose attention was still on the commotion that Avery had just caused. Deciding to take advantage of the situation, Devon sprinted out of the room as well. As soon as he was in the hall, he had no idea where he was supposed to go. If it wasn't for the slam of a door and the slight howl of the wind he could have very likely gotten lost as well. Following the direction of the sound, Devon found the front door again. Swinging it open, Devon raced out in to the storm after Avery. Christopherson came down the stairs dressed sharply in a suit and vest combo. He sighed when he saw that Devon had left the front door open and blowing rain was coming in. Shutting the front door Chris made sure to reset the locking charm. Walking towards the French room as he tied his tie, he met Page halfway. Somehow she managed to have both a scowl and a pout on at the same time. "I really wanted to hurt him." She whined. "I know Doll…" Chris replied sympathetically as he watched Page slip into her stilettos. "But it wasn't a complete loss. I cast a tracking charm on him when I came across him in the court yard. If he and Avery don't patch things up, we can always torment him after supper." Page looked up at him with stars sparkling in her eyes. "Dinner and torture in the same night? Normally I only get one or the other." She teased him as she opened the wardrobe and pulled out her cloak. "I knew that there was a reason I married you." "Think of it as an early anniversary gift. So…" Chris gave her a knowing smile. "What did you do to him?" He asked, to which Page looked up at him with feigned innocence. He didn't buy it. "We both know that there is no way a muggle ran past you without you getting a single spell in." Page grinned diabolically as she swung her cloak around her in whirl. "Let's just say that the next time he decides to mention my choice in interior design he'll be receiving a nice surprise." Chris laughed. "I swear, sometimes I think you designed that room like that just so you could get a rise out of people." "I'll have you know that I am quite fond of that room." Page answered defiantly. When Christopherson stared down at her with a smirk, Page rolled her eyes and continued to fasten her cloak. "Well…I like the tea cups. I'm really starting to hate all of that lace and whiteness." Smiling at her husband, Page held out her hand. "Shall we?" Chris took her hand. "Race you there." "Avery, wait!" Devon called after her as he raced behind through the rain. "Please stop!" "Leave me alone!" She shouted from over her shoulder. She kept running. Somehow it was that one simple order that gave Devon the push he needed to finally catch up. Reaching his hand out Devon managed to grab hold of her arm. "No! I will not leave you alone! At least until you talk with me." Avery spun around to face him, and stared up at him with a stone face. "What?" She snapped. "What do you need to tell me? That I'm a freak? That my whole family is nuts? What? What do you want to tell me?" By the end, Avery was screaming at him. Normally she would have felt embarrassed by this, but considering the fact that it was the middle of the night, storming out, and every other house on the block was enchanted so that they couldn't be found, Avery suddenly had no problem letting her feelings be known. Devon suddenly went silent. Avery clenched her fists. "I don't need this." She jerked her arm away. "Why did you even come here?" She asked a bit softer. "Because I love you." Avery crossed her arms. "It didn't seem like that two weeks ago." Devon took a step closer. "I was wrong to freak out. I know that, and I'm sorry. It isn't every day that you find out that your girlfriend does magic." Avery looked down at the ground. "You didn't come after me." She whispered. Devon took another step. "I know…I should have." "Yes." Avery answered sharply. "You should have." "I've been searching for you for the last two weeks. If you leave now, I'm going to keep searching for you until I find you again. I'll keep looking for you until you hear me out." Avery crossed her arms and stared up at him. "Speak." Devon met her eyes and nodded in agreement to her one word order. "You are my best friend and my hardest critic. You always push me to do my best and I have been taking that for granted. If it wasn't for you, I'd still be writing teenage trash…and I hate writing teenage romance. The day I let you run out of our apartment was the biggest mistake I've ever made. And it's not one I ever plan to make again." Devon put his hands in his pockets. If Avery noticed she made no note of it. "You are the only one who ever accepted all of me, and it was cruel of me to react the way that I did and deny you the same privilege. I need you to continue on. Please give me the opportunity to make it up to you day after day…for the rest of our lives." Devon pulled out a small box from his pocket. He hadn't told Avery it, but he had bought the ring a few months ago. He had just been searching for the right moment. If this wasn't it, then he never knew what would be. He got to his knees. "Please, Avery Jane Potter, marry me." Devon stayed on his knee for more than a minute. It was impossible to tell what Avery was thinking in the darkness and distorting features of the rain. "This is who I am." Her voice was soft. "My sister is insane. Both she and her husband work for the wizarding equivalent of MI6. If I hadn't come in she would have maimed you. Despite her appearance, she is well versed in torture and counter-intelligence techniques. My dad is famous in the wizard world; you can't go into any town and say his name without people's ear's perking. My mother is a genius and is the head of the research department for the whole Ministry. William, is the most normal out of us all, and even then, he has a spell reservoir in his mind that he can call on without a second's thought that is the envy of most spell books. I have three younger siblings that are 16 years younger than I am. And if there is anything you shouldn't do, it's underestimate them. Alice is a bit of a martial arts prodigy and would have you on the ground faster than you can say hippogriff. The boys, though lacking their sister's finesse would have you tied up just as fast in ways that only a double-team can work." Avery stared down at Devon. "This is my family. There is not a normal one in the lot. Is this what you want?" Devon locked eyes with her. "I want you." He answered honestly. That was apparently the right answer. Avery fell to her knees and into Devon's embrace. All of a sudden he was very happy that it was raining out as he held Avery close. It washed away just how relieved he actually felt. Walking back to Page's house, Devon couldn't help but bring it up. "Your sister isn't exactly what I expected her to be." He admitted. "Oh?" Avery looked up at him. "You didn't find her calculating, precise, or devious?" "No…" Devon tilted his head to the side. The boulder really did look like a wolf. "It's how she decorated her room. I never pegged her for having such girly tastes." And that was the last thing he got to say before the whole world went black and he collapsed to the ground. Avery stared at her now-fiancé unconscious on the ground and sighed. Pulling her wand out of her pocket she cast a hovering charm and moved him into the house and out of the rain. "Pardon me Mister Blake." The maître d' apologized as he brought them a letter on a silver tray. "This just came for you and your lovely wife. I believe it is of importance." "Of course." Christopherson accepted the letter. "Thank you." Waiting until the head waiter left, Chris weighed the letter in his hand. "It's light." He observed as he handed the letter to Page. "Bets on what it is?" Page studied the handwriting on the front for a moment before a wide grin escaped its bounds and cheerfully played on her face. "I know exactly what it is." She answered happily as she opened it. Scanning the letter she put it back on the table. "Sadly, it seems that Avery forgave him." "Damn." Chris snapped his fingers in mock distress. "Now how are we supposed to spend our anniversary night?" "On the plus side," Page continued, choosing to answer his teasing with a certain twinkle in her eyes. "It seems the new muggle addition to the family has already fallen into my trap." Pulling out a pocket watch from the front pocket of his vest, Christopherson checked the time. "Twenty minutes." He smiled at Page. "I do believe we have a new record." Page smiled contently around the room. "What a fantastic day!" Present day : Satisfied that Ashton's bow-tie was finally straight, Harry lifted him off of the kitchen counter and sent him outside to help his brother dust off the chairs. Looking around the kitchen, Harry didn't even feel like this was his house any more. Caterers were everywhere. Even standing in the unoccupied area, Harry felt as if he was underfoot. Leaving the hustle and bustle, Harry slowly made his way up the stairs. When Avery had come to them four months ago and pleaded with them to let her have her wedding in the back yard, Harry wanted nothing more than to say 'no'. There was still a part of him that hated Devon, but the part that loved Avery was much larger. He said yes without hesitation. The last three weeks building up to the wedding, Hermione had become a nervous wreck. Because they were having the wedding at their house and only Devon's parents had been briefed on the situation, it meant that each and every little piece of magical evidence had to be hidden away for the ceremony. Everything had to be done twice. Two different sets of invitations had to be sent out and two different marriage registries had to be contacted. Harry not only had to contact the Ministry and place a request to remove the locator-block he had placed on the acreage, but he also had to have several muggle event planners come to the yard to measure out the areas and plan for set up. Without his knowing, Harry's feet had brought him right to Avery's old bedroom door. Even though it was now official Alice's room, little things there still reminded him of Avery. It was also the Bride's Headquarters for the day of the wedding. Putting his hand on the door knob, Harry could not physically make himself turn the door knob. He heard the excitable voices on the other end and froze. Dropping his hand, Harry turned back around and walked down the stairs an out of the house to a place he knew he could be alone. As Harry started to walk down the path he could no longer lie to himself….he was not ready to give his eldest daughter away. Hermione was frantically moving around Alice's bedroom like a hurricane on speed. Putting another flower in Alice's hair, straitening the sash on Lizbeth's bridesmaid dress, casting yet another worried look to Page's dress, still on the hanger. She was one card shy of a full house and if one more thing went wrong the entire house of cards was going to collapse around her. "Today…" She muttered under her breath. "Why did Page have to be late today?" She was so distracted with her own thoughts that she barely felt Alice tug on her hand. Looking down at her youngest, Hermione did her best to put on a cheery face. "What's up Princess?" Her diminutive princess all done up in the white slip dress as the flower girl was looking around the room. "Where did Avery go?" Hermione almost completely freaked out. One quick scan of the room to find that Avery had somehow indeed disappeared out of the room and Hermione was out of the room. She really didn't care if Avery decided to have cold feet, but what she did care about was the fact that if Avery decided to bail, she would be stuck with a house full of people that she could not forcibly kick out and if they moved one more thing in her kitchen she was going to have a conniption. Walking down the path in the woods, Harry reminisced about all the times Avery had dragged him here to show him something she had found or made, and all the times he had forcibly been called out because Page had caught Avery in yet another trap. When Hermione became pregnant with Page, they had immediately starting looking for a home outside of the city. They're two bedroom bungalow had been fine when they had only had Avery, but with the prospect of more children, Harry knew that he didn't want them growing up in the city. They had spent months searching through the classifieds, both muggle and wizarding. Nothing seemed appropriate. Money wasn't a factor, but even Harry had to draw the line at two million gallons for what was essentially a swamp. He was starting to worry that they would have to compromise and find a suburb somewhere. Then, one day Harry was called out on a story. The person he was supposed to interview was more than mildly paranoid and refused to meet anywhere where the crossing of floo networks could connect to him. Harry had driven over an hour into the middle of nowhere, collected three minutes worth of notes and two quotes, and was then back in his car and heading back to the paper. He almost missed it. Along the grid road, there was a long approach lined with tall trees that linked at the top, creating a canopy down the road. Pulling his car over, Harry got out and stared down the road. He could faintly see a house in the distance. Making sure that there were no 'No Trespassing' signs, Harry got back into the car and pulled onto the approach. There was no reason for him to go down that road that day. Chances were high to none that the people who owned the property would not appreciate his being there. And yet, Harry could not turn away. Something about the place sent a tingling feeling down his spine. Pulling into the drive, Harry got out and admired the building. It was not huge, but by no means small. It stood two stories high, all in brick with white trim. A veranda stretched out all along the edges with a large bed-swing hanging from the rafters moving lazily back and forth in the fall wind. The lawn was large and stretched on behind the house for miles. Harry walked a little closer. Lilac bushes were planted and pruned along one edge of the house. Approaching the house from either side was a vast forest. Walking around the corner, Harry came across a room with large windows and a door that opened directly onto a path to the forest. Looking over the horizon, Harry smiled to himself at the thought of being in the room when the sun came up along this East side of the house. "Excuse me…." A voice from behind him caused Harry to jump in the air. Whirling around he came face to face with an elderly gentleman who was leaning heavily on a cane. "Can I help you?" Harry had been so caught up in his own thoughts that he hadn't even heard him approach. "I'm sorry." Harry hastily apologized. "I didn't mean to invade your privacy. I was just driving by and saw the house and felt as if I just needed to take a closer look. I mean you no harm." Harry rubbed the back of his neck nervously. "I can leave now if you like." The older man's brown eyes twinkled in a way Harry couldn't even begin to understand. "Would you like a tour?" Sitting in the crisp clean kitchen, Harry sat at the white-wash table while Arthur Mulligan poured him a cup of tea. Even though he was trying he best not to, Harry was finding himself falling deeper and deeper in love with the house and yard. Arthur had given him a walking tour around the estate without a second thought. It was as if Harry's presence was just another appointment planned out in his day. "You have such an amazing house." Harry confessed as he looked around the room. It was sparkly decorated, but what little was there was impeccable condition. "It almost feels like I'm being drawn into it." Arthur sat down heavily in the chair across from him with his own cup of tea. He took looked around the room with a reminiscence smile. "I understand completely what you mean. This area has a sort of energy to it. It was many years ago when I came across her in a similar way to how you came here." A soft chuckle escaped his lips. "Though, back in my day, we were still using buggies to get around." Arthur's eyes lost their focus for a moment as he stared out of large window facing the backyard. "We were just driving to town….we got lost. The trees weren't as large back then, but even then, you could easily miss the house if you weren't looking for it." Arthur's shoulders shook a bit as his consciousness came back to the here and now. He smiled at Harry. They sat there and drank their tea in silence for a moment. In any other situation, Harry would have felt incredibly uncomfortable. He had never done well with grandparent type figures. He concluded it was due to the fact that he never had any. But it they were anything like the man sitting before him, Harry couldn't help but feel like he wouldn't have minded having one. "Tell me," Arthur put his mug back down on the table as Harry started to ask him a question. "The room with all the windows, what was it used for?" A sad smile came across Arthur's lips. "That was Mindy's, my wife," He explained. "study. She was a teacher, but she really liked to paint." His smile took a warmer feel. "It was her favourite room as well." "She sounds wonderful." Harry answered sincerely. "Is she away today?" Arthur turned his mug in his hands. "Sadly, she passed five years ago." Harry fell silent at Arthur's response. Suddenly he felt like a complete card. "I'm sorr-" Arthur immediately waved his hand at Harry's apology. "She lived a long and happy life. I will not allow others to be mopey for her. Now it's your turn." He stared at Harry with a pair of eyes that were filled wisdom. "What were you doing looking for this house?" "Well, I wasn't looking for this house in particular." Harry corrected him. Arthur seemed to pay no attention as Harry continued on. "My wife and I are expecting another child. We've been looking for someplace to call home." After that, Arthur became quite quiet. Evidently, there wasn't much more else to talk about. Finishing his cup of tea, Harry thanked Arthur for his hospitality and drove back home. Thinking that was it, he tucked away the day in his 'fond memories' corner of his brain. He didn't even bother to tell Hermione about his little adventure. There was nothing to talk about for it. That was, until a month later when an unexpected person came knocking on the door to their two bedroom flat. It was a rare day when both Harry and Hermione were home. Since Harry could work mostly from home, he was the one who took care of Avery most of the time until Hermione went on maternity leave. But that particular day she had taken a sick day. She had come home the night before quite upset. Apparently one of her hero's in the world of magical research had died the previous day. Hermione had always looked up to him. So, add that to out of control hormones and a weak stomach, Hermione had spent much of her day off sleeping in a nest next to the loo. Holding Avery in his arms, Harry opened the door and met the stoic stare of the man standing on his doorstep. Harry immediately recognized the three yellow diagonal bars on the crest sewn to the man's cloak as the badge of the Proprietor; the magical equivalent to an estate lawyer. More than mildly confused, Harry couldn't help the question on his address. "Hello? Can I help you?" The man took off his hat and gestured into the house. "May I come in? It would be easier to discuss our business inside." Nodding, Harry moved away and allowed the man past the charms set on the threshold. Shutting the door behind him, Harry followed the man into the living room. "Please," Harry gestured to the couch. "Have a seat." Placing Avery down, Harry crouched so that he was eye level with his child. "Why don't you go and see how Mummy's feeling, okay Birdie?" "Cheep cheep!" Avery enthusiastically answered. She had gotten it in her head lately that it would be fun to be a bird. She flapped her wings as she walked out of the room. Sitting down across from the Proprietor, Harry opened his mouth before realizing he didn't know what to say. The man in grey paid no attention to it. "My name is Joe Harris. I handle the Mulligan estate." He put his briefcase down on the table and gave it a tap with his wand, unlocking the case. He started to pull papers out. "You've caused quite a riot amongst the living relatives of Mister Mulligan. I'll need you to sign here." Harry continued to stare at the man. Not only did he have no idea why he was there, he also couldn't quite remember who these Mulligans were. "I'm sorry, but I think you must have the wrong house." Harry answered, not even bothering to look down at the papers. The Proprietor didn't even bother to look up from his notes. "There is no mistake." He answered definitively. "You are the Mister Potter stated in the will of Arthur Mulligan." A crash brought both of their attentions to the now broken tea mug on the floor. Hermione was staring at them wide-eyed. "Did you say Arthur Mulligan?" Harry watched confused as his wife and the Proprietor exchanged a knowing look. "I'm sorry…." Harry brought the attention back to himself. "But can someone please tell me what is going on?" Hermione cleaned up the broken shards of ceramic with a flick of her wand and then made her way over to the couch. "Arthur Mulligan was the first head of the Department of Research. He's the man who just died that I was so upset about. I had no idea that you knew him." Harry looked back down at the papers on the table. "I didn't…not really. I found his house one day and he gave me a tour. We had tea, but that was about it." "Which comes to why I am here…." Harris interjected. He pushed the paper towards Harry again. "Mister Milligan has left you his house and the land associated with Bishop's Lane. I need you to sign these papers and then you will have to go with a court appointed spell-smith to dispel any lingering protection charms and then the house is yours." Harry stared at the page. "I didn't tell Arthur to do this!" He insisted. "I didn't mean to cause any rift in the family." Harris gave what could only be called a smile, but it was little more than a miniscule peak on the edge of his lips. "Mister Mulligan has also left you a note. I'm sure it will release you of any guilt you may be experiencing. Now," He placed a quill on top of the first page needing a signature. "I still have to attend to the rest of the family today and explain to them why each and every one of them did not get the house." Harry looked over at Hermione, lost he didn't know what he should do. Somehow it felt wrong to accept such a large estate from someone he had barely met. Sighing at Harry's clear reluctance, Harris leaned in. "If, for any reason the estate does not please you after you have signed for it, I may be summoned and a transfer of ownership may be invoked. So, if you would please…" Nodding, Harry picked up the quill and signed the five sheets he needed to. He handed back the lot to Harris who deftly collected all the pages and had them locked back in his briefcase instantly. "So that's it?" Harry asked, still not quite believing what was going on. "Nearly." Harris answered. Reaching into his coat he pulled out a single envelope and handed it over to Harry. "Now that's it." Harry looked down at the neat, small black lettering addressing the letter to him. "Thank you." He extended his hand to Harris. Accepting his hand, Harris gave him a nod. "I'll leave you to the letter. I'll let myself out." "Nonsense!" Hermione insisted, standing up. "Please let me walk you out." Harry smiled up at her graciously. She was giving him a moment to read the letter. He appreciated that. Waiting until both the Proprietor and Hermione had left the room, Harry slowly and carefully broke the wax that sealed the envelope. He pulled out the single page with the same neat writing and started to read it carefully. I'm sure that finding out who I am and then just as quickly hearing of my demise will be quite the overwhelming. As will the news that I have left you something in my Will. If this comes as quite a shock to you, I feel as if I must apologize. It's not every day a complete stranger leaves you a house. But the minute you made it past the spells I had weaved through the house and yard, I knew that you were the only one who could inherit my home. I feel I need to explain. You are the first person who has ever found my house without a direct invitation. I hadn't been lying to you when you were down. I found the house similarly so many years ago, also under spell by the occupant of the time. I've been putting off deciding who to leave it to after I died; something that was already occurring by the time you met me so there is no need to feel sad. Having you show up that day seemed like fate. So, Harry, please, I implore you, take care of my home. Look after it in a way that only a loving family can. I've known for a long time that there was no one left amongst my living relatives who could. The way your eyes fell upon it made me certain that you were the one. Take especially good care over Mindy's study, but don't treat it as a memorial ground. She would have wanted life and laughter to fill its walls. Until life's next great journey crosses our paths, Arthur D. Mulligan Harry folded up the letter carefully and slid it back into its envelop. He could not wrap his mind around how he had created such an impression on a man he had hardly known for an hour. And yet, the words on that letter spoke directly to his heart. Harry knew that Arthur had only spoken the truth. Looking up, Harry smiled at his wife as Hermione and Avery came back into the room. "Would you like to go for a drive?" Coming out of Memory Lane and back into reality, Harry parted the Weeping Willow branches and walked into the cool darkness that had always been a secret place of his and Avery's. Once his eyes adjusted to the darkness, Harry didn't know what he felt, but it wasn't surprise to see his aforementioned daughter sitting in her regular spot in between the roots of the tree, dressed in her pajamas, clutching her knees to her chest. Moving silently, Harry sat down next to her and put an arm around her shoulder. Avery leaned against him. They sat there in the early morning calm. "Everything's going to be different now, isn't it?" Avery asked softly, her head resting against Harry's chest. "A little bit…" Harry agreed as he gave her shoulders a comforting squeeze. "Not the most important things though." Avery turned her head to look up at him. "Like what?" Harry smiled down at his eldest daughter. It never ceased to amaze him that twenty six odd years ago he had been blessed with the gift that was Avery. Every day he couldn't help but be grateful for the way his life turned out. He had a large, loving family, despite it being much larger than he had ever anticipated. He had a job that he loved, a house that was also a home, and a wife who still managed to amaze him. "Like just how much I love you." He answered sweetly as he wrapped his other arm around Avery and pulled her into a hug. "No matter what, that will never change." "No matter what?" Avery asked, she couldn't contain her smirk as she looked up at him. "What if I killed someone?" "I expect to be the first person you call if you kill someone! After all," He reasoned. "Who else would you ask to help hide the body?" There was a two second pause before they both exchanged a mischievous smile and answered, "Page." without another moment's delay. This type of synchronous answer was all that was needed to send the pair of them into a fit of giggles. "It is true…." Harry replied between the peals of his laughter. "Page would be better at hiding a body. BUT," He made Avery look up at him. "I still expect you tell me, promise?" Avery grinned up at him. "Promise promise." Harry squeezed her close again. "That's my Birdie." "Forever?" Avery asked softly, doubt flickered though her voice. "Forever and ever." Harry answered softly. Avery was always her most insecure when she thought that his feelings for her would change. The first time she had thought about leaving for Hogwarts she had thought he would no longer love her the same way. When she moved out of the Potter house, the first time she got her book published, once she started dating Devon. All these times, Avery had come to him with fear in her eyes. Harry never told Hermione about Avery's insecurity over the issue. If there any fuel that could have added to Hermione's belief that he coddled her, this would have been it. Harry let the silence take them for a moment as he enjoyed one last secret moment with his daughter before he asked, "So, why are you hiding out here?" Sighing, Avery put her head down on her knees. "I'm just nervous I suppose." She answered. "If I stayed in the room any longer, Mum would have had me freaking out along with her." Harry smiled at the mental picture. It seemed ironic that the woman who had told him to accept that Avery was getting married was now in fact the one stressed out. Standing up, Harry held a hand out for Avery. "Come one." He jerked his head back towards the house. "I have a feeling that if you're not there and in your dress within five minutes your mother is going to curse more than one of the caterers." Smiling, Avery took his hand. "I suppose Devon's parents wouldn't appreciate losing their deposit if that happens." Wrapping an arm around her, they made their way back to the house on the well-used path. Harry pushed open the door to Alice's room to the very frustrated eyes of his wife. Avery tried to sneak past her but Hermione wasn't going to let her go that easily. Holding up a hand to Harry's explanation, Hermione directed her attention to the bride-to-be. "Page is not here yet. You get dressed and I'm going to look for her. Alice!" Their youngest daughter snapped to attention and looked up eagerly for her orders. "You make sure that Avery stays here and gets dressed, understood?" Alice gave her a mock-salute. "Yes Ma'am!" She answered happily before attaching herself to Avery's leg. "You're stuck with me!" Avery laughed as she pulled on one of Alice's curls. "No one I'd prefer Princesses. Though, you'll have to let go of my leg so I can get dressed." "You!" Hermione directed at Harry. "You come with me." She curled her finger in a 'come-hither' motion. Harry gave Avery a little wave before following his wife out of the room. Once the door was shut she immediately threw her arms around him and embraced him tightly. "I don't know what you did," She started. "But it worked. Avery was a mess an hour ago." Harry wrapped his arms around Hermione and rested his head on top of her. "Probably no worse off than I was." He confided with her. "I think we're both a little afraid of the change that's going to happen. Hermione have him a comforting squeeze. "Okay, I have to go and find the maid-of-honor. Can you go and make sure the boys are all alright?" Harry nodded. "Will do. Good luck." Avery was in the process applying her mascara when the bedroom door opened up. Watching in the mirror, Avery watched as Page walked in, more than a little disheveled. Seeing her sister, Page moved towards the vanity where Avery was sitting. "Hey, have you seen Mum? I need her to help me fix my hair." She asked as if it was a common day occurrence. Now, this could have been considered ordinary for a regular bystander if it wasn't for two facts. One, that this was Page they were talking about, and two, that half of her hair was burnt off and the other half was still sizzling. "Page! What did you do?" Avery asked stood up quickly. Page ran a hand through her patchy hair and put out one of the little flames on the end of a strand. "Chris and I just got back from a job. Apparently the newest 'must-have' in the world of criminal fortress protection is Dragon Gatekeepers. Now, where is Mum? I need her to charm this better." Sighing, Avery pushed Page down so that she was sitting at the vanity. "Mum's out looking for you. I'll help you with your hair. Lizzie," she directed her voice over her shoulder. "can you go and tell Mum that we found her?" Nodding, Lizbeth left the room and Page in Avery's hands. Avery picked up her wand off of the dresser. "Okay, first off, I will fix your hair, but you cannot move. I am very much out of practice at hair charms." She waited until Page nodded her acknowledgment before continuing. "And second, I need to ask to make sure…You do remember our talk about the wedding, right?" Page's eyes started to wander around the room. "You may or may not have to remind me as to what exactly it was that I am or am not supposed to do today." She answered insouciantly, making it very clear to Avery that her sister had no clue what she was talking about. "Only Devon and his parents know that we're all magical. None of his guests or relatives do however. I need you to promise me that you'll behave and not do any magic all day today. That means carrying your dishes, not hovering them, you will not pull your wand out of thin air, nor will you be allowed to perform any pranks." Page pouted at Avery through the reflection in the mirror as Avery started to grow Page's hair back to its former glory. "Spoil-sport. I suppose that means I'll have to get Christoph to make our primary wedding gift to disappear." Avery put her hands on her hips and stared down at her sister in a no-nonsense way. "What is it?" Page shrugged her shoulders and made a big show of rolling her eyes around. "It may or may not have been a box set to explode sending millions of charmed confetti into the air singing 'There She Goes' in a falsetto as you walked down the aisle." Avery let out a sign of relief. It was an embarrassing gift, but considering that this was Page and Chris that they were talking about, she should consider herself lucky that this was the worse that they were planning. Avery didn't quite connect the words 'primary gift' to Page's sudden devious smile at her relief. "Yes, it may be best if that one happens to disappear off of the gift table." Jerking her head towards the door, Avery put her wand down, finished with her sister's hair. "Make it so, and do it fast. You still need to get dressed." Page hurried out of the room. It wasn't until the door shut behind her that the two things clicked together, leaving Avery mildly stunned, not knowing what or when the Potter's most notorious couple would strike. Sighing again, Avery took her seat back down at the vanity. All this and it was only 9am. How she was going to make it through the day…she didn't exactly know. Things were finally starting to go right. Page was finally dressed and deemed presentable by Hermione. William was outside playing with Ashton and Anthony while Harry was running between the two parties making sure that everything was running smoothly. Lizbeth had Ephraim tidy and awaiting his orders as the ring bearer. As mother-of-the-bride Hermione was more or less calm; which was saying a lot considering that an hour ago all the main characters of the wedding had decided to play truant. Avery on the other hand was starting to feel her nerves approach. It wasn't until Page pulled the bouquet of black-spotted orange tiger lilies and yellow daffodils out of her hands that Avery even realized that she was starting to pick at them. She opened her mouth to thank her when the door suddenly opened. Every pair of eyes in the room was locked on Harry as he came in to the room. Not that it mattered. The only person he was looking at was Avery. "It's time." He said softly, smiling at Avery in her beautiful dress. Nodding, Avery stood up and checked her reflection one last time and smoothed her hair in place, making sure her bangs were not array. She had never had the same showy attitude that Page did when it came to clothes. Page could pull off anything…and she knew it. So, when Avery had to choose a dress where she would be the center of attention had been a tedious event, one where she had actually pleaded with Hermione to help her with it. They had spent nearly a week going from store to store, search for the perfect dress. Hermione watched as Avery grew more and more frustrated as all they saw was more of the same ball-gown type dresses that made her tiny daughter look like a cupcake topper. They both agreed that this was not her image. What probably added to the frustration was that they hadn't even started picking everything else out yet. Since Avery had refused to charm her hair to grow from the very short feminine Mia Farrow look she'd had for years they would have spent a long time deciding on what look she should wear for the big day. Right before they were about to call it quits, Hermione convinced Avery to try one last shop. The dress had caught Avery's eye right off the bat, though Hermione hadn't been too impressed with it to start. The dress seemed quite plain to her. It wasn't until the dress was on that she saw how perfect it really was. The fine silk fell along Avery's petite form like a sand dune, always moving and creating a flowing illusion. The dress gathered slightly at the hips before falling loose, coming slightly longer in the back then in the front, creating a small train that just dusted the floor. It had a small band that collected the folds around the hips and sent a line straight down the front and back. The top peaked daintily while the start of the straps came up quite high on her shoulders before the thin straps curled over the top of her shoulders and revealed a daring open back. After that, everything fell into place. The shoes were bought five minutes later as they were walking back to the hotel. Avery contacted Page to borrow a pair of her large cascade earrings that she had worn for her anniversary. The earrings had a classic glam look and were made up of many glittering crystals that once attached to her ears, drew attention to her dainty face and sleek hair. It was no surprise that she took away the breath of all those around her. Alice watched as Avery accepted the bouquet from Page and linked arms with Harry. Leading the way, the whole room started to leave the room. Following close behind, Alice tugged on Hermione's dress. Smiling down at her youngest, Hermione held out her hand, which Alice took. "What's up Princess?" "Do you think Daddy will ever treat me the same way he does Avery?" She asked, completely serious, watching as Harry and Avery shared a secret smile. Smiling, Hermione gave her daughter's hand a squeeze. "Sweetheart, I don't think your father will ever treat anyone the way he treats Avery." Alice thought about this for a moment before asking, "Why?" Hermione looked at the pair of them with loving eyes. "Avery has always been special to your father. To him, she was the catalyst between what could have been and the life he has now. Between being alone and angry at the world for his hardships, or happy with a family he loves more than he could ever express." "I don't understand." Alice answered; the concept of a single life altering moment didn't make sense to her ten-year old mind. Hermione smiled down at Alice and gave her hand another squeeze. "Don't worry about it Sweets. I don't expect you to yet. All you need to know is that your father loves you very much." Alice shrugged her should. "Well, I knew that!" She answered matter-of-factly. Laughing, Hermione let go of Alice's hand. "Why don't you go and grab Ephraim? You too will have to walk down the aisle first." Crossing her arms in a huff, Alice stayed next to Hermione. "I hate Ephraim. Why do I have hold his hand?" Hermione sighed. It didn't seem to matter how many different way she and Harry worded it to their daughter, Alice just couldn't seem to make the distinction between what she should say and what is best left silent. "Why do you hate Ephraim?" Hermione asked, only slightly exasperated. Alice continued to glare at the younger boy walking with his mother. "It's not fair that a boy can be prettier than me." She replied with a scowl. Hermione blinked a few times before muffling her laughter with her hand. It's true that Lizbeth's and Arden's son was quite pretty for a boy. He had inherited the Malfoy's fine bone structure and had hair that fell upon his face like a silk sheet in the wind; his auburn hair and the dusting of freckles across his nose however were a direct throwback to the Weasley clan. Regardless, it still made her laugh that Alice felt threated by the little Malfoy. "Get up there." She ordered with a chuckle as she gave her daughter a push. Putting on a show as only a Potter child could, Alice stomped up to where Ephraim was standing next to Lizbeth. Hermione didn't hear what she said, but she stuck her hand out with a huff and waited until the blushing youth nervously took her hand. Alice then proceeded to drag Ephraim up to where Harry and Avery were walking. It was the most adorable thing she'd ever seen her tough daughter do. Avery stood by the door of the small tent set up at the back of their make-shift ceremony area. Peeking through the folds, Avery looked around at all the people already sitting in the chairs. Dropping the lip back down, Avery started to pace around the small confined area. Noticing her nerves, and hearing the string band start its warm up, Harry decided that now was a good time to talk to his daughter. "As the ever loving and mildly over protective father that I am, I am inclined to ask if you're sure that this is what you want to do. Because if it isn't, I'm not above casting a sleeping spell over the muggle half of the wedding as you escape through the back." Avery looked up and was instantly comforted by the twinkle in her father's eyes. Letting out a little laugh, Avery smoothed her dress a bit and took a calming breath. "When you say it that way…" She answered jokingly. "A girl has a hard time saying 'no'. But…" She smirked up at him. "I am getting married today." Both of their heads jerked towards the door as they heard the band start up in full. Smiling softly at Avery, Harry held out an arm for her to take. "This is it." Nodding, Avery took one more breath before she linked arms with Harry. Suddenly time seemed to move forwards at ten times the normal speed. Avery felt as if she was having an out of body experience as she watched Alice and Ephraim walk out of the tent. Followed by Lizbeth and finally Page who smirked at her sister before giving her hair a theatrical toss and strutting out of the tent. There were a few cat-calls made by some of Devon's more tipsy relatives, but these were all cut short by what Avery could only assume to be a scathing glare or menacing gesture from Christoph. Looking up at Harry, Avery gave him a nervous smile. "This is it….I'm closing a chapter of my life right here and now." Smiling at her, Harry shook her head. "No, the chapter that is 'Avery Potter' will never stop being written. This is just one more of the stages of your life." Grinning up at her father, Avery's eyes lost their doubt. Moving forward, they waited until the pageboys in charge of opening the curtain drew them back exposing them to the light. Talking their first steps onto the aisle and into the new stage of her life, Avery looked up at her father and said the only thing that was left needed to say, "I love you Dad." The End Interested in what's next for the Potter family? Check out these one-shots that follow up with the stories untold! A Very Potter Christmas Special - The Potters and spouces meet up at the Potter household for a Christmas celebration...but there may or may not be a few secrets at hand as well! s/7724510/1/A-Very-Potter-Christmas-Special Because No One Said It Would Be Easy - Avery unwittingly confesses a deep dark secret that she had never planned to, to her sister's husband. It isn't long before Page also finds out and havoc ensues. s/9573242/1/Because-no-one-said-it-would-be-easy	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6363001/14/The-Truth-Behind-a-Story	<urn:uuid:f59288f6-49f3-4c03-ab2b-12ab52cec63b>	en	0.991612	0.104583
Calamity Hope By: earthprincess4 Rated: T Written for the Fandom For Tsunami cause. A while back I put up a poll asking for everyone's opinion on what I should write for this cause. This is the story that won the poll by quite a few votes actually. Thanks everyone who voted and of course everyone who donated in the Fandom For Tsunami relief. Summary: Edward and Bella are in the wrong place at the wrong time. An earthquake hits Forks and traps them under the rubble of a collapsed science wing at Forks High School, which ultimately changes both of their lives forever. Warning: This story contains tragic content and quite possibly will make you cry. But it does have an HEA. Thanks sister_liz for being an awesome beta and Christag_banner for making me a wonderful banner. Disclaimer: I don't own Twilight or the characters. No copyright infringement intended. "Mr. Banner, please there has to be something I can do," I begged, following my biology teacher around the classroom at the end of the day. I had just got my mid-term grade, which happened to be failing. I knew my parents were going to be furious. "Bella, I'm sorry. If you would actually take the time to study the material and come to class, you'd be able to get a passing grade," he scolded while cleaning up the lab stations. "I'll do an extra credit project," I offered. "Please, my parents are going to kill me if I fail this class." "That's not my fault," he said, stopping by the back shelf and handing Edward Cullen a box of beakers. "Mr. Banner, please. I'll come to class every day for the rest of the year. There has to be something I can do to pass this class." He sighed and placed his hands on his hips. "The only way you can possibly get a passing grade is to pass the final with a ninety percent or better. However, with as much skipping of class you do, there's no way you're going to know the material enough without some help." "What do you suggest I do? I'll read the whole text book if you want me to." He chuckled and crossed his arms against his chest. "If you made it to my class every once in a while you would know I very rarely teach from the book. I'm more of a hands on teacher and would rather have my students do the experiments themselves instead of reading about them. My only suggestion is getting a tutor to help you. I'm sure Edward here would be willing to help you." I glanced over at Edward and gave him the once over with a raised eyebrow. Edward glanced in my direction for a split second while he lined beakers up along the shelf. There was nothing wrong with him, but he was kind of a social outcast and a science geek. Mr. Banner loved him and treated him like a teacher's pet. This is why Edward was still here after most of the students had already left for the day. Edward liked to stay after and help Mr. Banner clean up the lab stations and sometimes even do experiments on the side for fun. He was kind of strange in most everyone's eyes. "You have got to be kidding me," I complained. There was no way I could be seen with Edward Cullen. It would be social suicide, plus I think James would forbid it. "If you want a passing grade you'll have to work with Edward after school to catch up, and I want you in class every day until the end of the year. I'll move some lab partners around so you can be with Edward for the remainder of the year. He's really your only chance of passing. He's the only one I trust anyway." I let out a flustered sigh and ran a hand through my hair. This was not going to be easy. "That is if he's willing," Mr. Banner added. My eyes shot up to Mr. Banner's and he had a small smirk on his face. Great, in other words he was setting me up to have to beg Edward Cullen for help. This couldn't be any worse than it already was. I glanced back at Edward who was still standing by the shelf and putting beakers away slowly. I could see his jaw line clench and a small shake of his head. "I've got to go to the office to check my mail and make a few copies for tomorrow's assignment. You two talk it over and see what you can come up with," he suggested. Mr. Banner walked out of the room with a stack of papers in his hands and whistled down the empty hallway. I took a deep breath trying to get the nerve to beg for help from the last person I wanted to ask. I barely opened my mouth before Edward spoke for the first time since being in the classroom. "What?" I whined. "I'm not helping someone like you," he replied, walking past me and grabbing the other box of beakers off the desk and beginning to stack them on the shelf. "What do you mean someone like me?" I asked with an irritated tone. "Someone who gets special treatment just because your dad's the police chief and you're Miss Popular," he clarified. "Find someone else to help you. Maybe your boyfriend can help you." I rolled my eyes at the thought. James was doing even worse in school than I was. He's the reason I skipped classes all the time. "Come on, Edward. It's only for a few more weeks. I'll pay attention and not cause you any trouble." "Right, until your boyfriend finds out you're staying after school to spend time with me. Thanks, but I'd rather keep my face intact." "I'll explain to him what I'm doing," I added walking closer to the shelf. "He won't touch you." He turned his attention towards me. For a moment I thought he was about to agree, but instead he chuckled and rolled his eyes, while shaking his head. "What do you want?" I asked. "I'll give you anything. Do you want popularity or money? Whatever you want I'll get it. I have to pass this class. If I fail I won't be able to see James anymore and my car will be taken away. I have to find a way to pass this class." He sighed, grabbing his backpack off the floor and swinging it over his shoulder. "Bella…" Before he could finish, there was a sudden rumble noise under our feet and the ground began to shake. The beakers Edward had just placed on the shelf began to fall and shatter on the floor. I lost my balance and fell, cutting the palm of my hand on the broken glass. Within moments I could hear large cracking and crashing noise. In the far distance, I could hear screams. My heart was racing with fear. I didn't know what was happening or what to do. I felt a hand grab mine and pull me to my feet. I was dragged to the back closet of the classroom and shoved inside. Edward shut the door and yanked my arm, pushing me under a countertop. His entire body wrapped around me and held me close to his chest. I screamed the entire time the ground shook. For at least ten minutes, we listened to the sound of crashing and breaking noises all around us. As it began to quiet down, Edward's grasp around me loosened. I looked around and realized there was nothing but darkness. I felt around the confined space and only found broken walls caved in all around us. The only thing holding was this countertop we sat under. "Edward," I cried. "I'm right here," he answered with a sure and steady voice. "What happened?" "I think we had an earthquake," he answered. "I'm pretty sure the school just collapsed. All the crashing and breaking noises were the walls and ceiling falling." "What do you mean the school collapsed? How do we get out?" I whined, starting to feel a panic rise inside of me. "We don't," he replied. Hearing those words scared me. I did the only thing I could think of. I screamed as loud as I could. "Bella," Edward shouted. I didn't listen. I continued to scream and bang on the countertop above us. Edward grabbed my wrist and covered my mouth with his other hand. "Do you want this counter to fall and kill us both?" he shouted. "Shut up and don't touch anything." I curled my knees into my chest and held my arms around them while I cried. "Look," Edward began. "I don't know how much damage was done outside. There's no way we can get out without risking getting hurt. The best thing to do is wait for rescuers to find us." "How long do you think it will take?" I asked with a small voice. "I don't know. Maybe a few hours, but it all depends on the damage." "I don't like the dark. I don't like being trapped. I have to get out of here," I whined. "Do you have your cell phone on you?" he asked. My eyes closed and the sobs coming from my throat were even louder. "No," I answered. "I was grounded from my phone last night because I was talking to James after curfew and I got caught." He huffed sounding angry with me. "What did you need my phone for?" I wondered. "Well, I was thinking I could call the outside world and let them know where we are so they can get us out," he replied with an irritated tone. "Where's your cell phone?" I asked with the same irritated tone he was using. The space got quiet for a moment while I waiting for him to answer. "I don't have one," he answered quietly. "Why don't you have a cell phone?" "I don't have need for one. Who am I going to call?" "Well you could be calling help right about now. Emergencies are usually what cell phones are for." I could hear him laughing. "Yeah, parents say they're for emergencies but are they actually ever used for emergencies? Was talking to your boyfriend last night an emergency? Now, when there is an actual emergency, you don't have a cell phone." "This isn't my fault," I shouted. He sighed heavily and started shuffling things around. "What are you doing?" I wondered. "I'm trying to find my keys." Just as I asked, I suddenly had a light shined on my face. I blinked away from the blinding light, but internally I was thankful it wasn't so dark anymore. "Because I have a flashlight on my keychain," he answered sarcastically. For the first time since we've been trapped I could see. He shined the flashlight all around us to see how much damage there was and we quickly realized the damage was a lot worse than we could have imagined. The rubble and broken pieces of walls were all around us. The entire room had collapsed on top of us and the only thing holding was the countertop we were sitting under. We were trapped. "You cut your hand," he pointed out shining the light on my hand. I looked down and saw the blood and the large cut across the palm of my hand. With everything going on I didn't even notice the cut. Edward shined his light into his backpack and pulled out a small bottle of antibacterial wash. He ripped a piece of his shirt and grabbed my hand. He squeezed the little bottle of antibacterial wash on my cut, and I jerked away and hissed at the sting. "What are you doing?" I shouted in anger. "The cut is going to get infected if I don't clean it. It's only going to sting for a minute, now let me see." Hesitantly, I put my hand back out towards him and he used the piece of shirt to wash off the blood and clean the cut. After it was as clean as he could get it, he used another strip of his shirt to wrap it around and tie it off. "There. It's the best I can do," he said releasing my hand. He nodded his head absentmindedly and continued to search around the space with the flashlight as if he was looking for something. I stayed in my corner with my knees pulled to my chest and remained quiet. After a while, he turned off the flashlight and moved into the opposite corner. "Why did you turn off the light?" I asked. "I need to conserve the battery for when we absolutely need it," he answered. For hours we were both fairly silent. I listened closely for any sound of rescuers coming for us. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone came for us. As the hours went by hope diminished. I curled up on the floor and cried myself to sleep. When I woke up Edward was using the flashlight to search through his backpack. He pulled out a small bag of cheetos and quickly opened it, popping one in his mouth. "Do you have any food in your backpack?" he asked. He rolled his eyes and grumbled under his breath. "We have to survive somehow. We need to find food and water anywhere we can. If you have anything we need it." "Do you think we're going to be in here that long?" I questioned. "I don't know how long we're going to be in here. We just need to be prepared." I grabbed my backpack, knowing I had a water bottle and an apple I didn't eat at lunch. I also found a pack of gum, but I didn't think that was important. I laid it all out in front of us and Edward had a small smile on his face. "This is good. We can survive for a few days with this. We just need to be careful," he instructed. I rolled my eyes at his happiness and curled up back in my corner. I couldn't understand why he was so happy knowing we may never get out of here. He held out the bag of cheetos towards me, while he munched on one in his own mouth. I glanced back and forth between him and the bag of chips in front of me. "Do you want any or not?" he asked. I sighed and took a couple from the bag eating them slowly. I grabbed the water bottle next and opened it up. "Only drink a small amount," he ordered. "We have to make it last." I nodded my head and took a small sip of the water before passing it to him. I grabbed a piece of gum and started chewing it to get my saliva flowing. An hour or two went by and I started to get antsy. I needed to pee so badly but there was no place to go in this little hole we were in. I nervously tapped my feet and bit the inside of my cheek trying hard not to think about it. "Bella," Edward began, sounding just as fidgety as I did. "Do you need to pee?" "Yes," I answered quickly. "What are we going to do?" "I have an idea, but it might not be pretty." "What do you mean?" I wondered. "There is a garbage can over there," he pointed the flashlight over by the wall to show me the small, round, silver garbage can. "We can go in there, but it's going to smell after a while and we're going to need to go in front of each other." I rolled my eyes thinking of how disgusting hearing him pee as well as peeing in front of him would be. "We really don't have any other option unless you plan to hold it the entire time," he said. "Okay," I accepted hesitantly. "Do you want to go first?" I asked. "No, you go." He scooted across the floor and slowly lifted the lid of the garbage can. I quickly turned around, shutting my eyes and covering my ears. A few minutes later I felt him tap my shoulder. I opened my eyes and uncovered my ears to face him. "Your turn," he said. I took a deep breath and crawled across the floor to the garbage can. "Can you turn around and cover your ears?" I requested. "Yeah," he answered doing as I asked. I pulled down my pants and lifted the lid of the garbage can doing my best to squat over it. I closed my eyes and tried not to think about what I was doing. When I finished I crawled back over to my corner and curled up. Edward never said much while we continued to wait for someone to rescue us. I knew someone would find us soon. There was no possibility we would be trapped here for much longer. I held on to that hope and listened for any sound of rescuers. "Edward," I began quietly. "Before the earthquake hit you were going to say something. What was it?" He sighed and shuffled on the ground before answering me. "I was going to tell you I had no interest in helping you and I didn't care whether you failed or not." I bit the inside of my cheek and nodded my head, not even thinking how he couldn't see me. "Thanks for being honest…I guess." I stretched my legs out in front of me and rested my head back against the wall. "I guess it doesn't really matter now. I'm sure I can get out of it after what's happened." He snickered making me turn my head in his general direction to glare at him. "Anything to get out of doing schoolwork, right?" "I don't want to get out of doing schoolwork. I'm just saying we probably won't have to do anything now. For all we know there isn't a school to go to anymore." "I don't think the entire school collapsed. The earthquake wasn't strong enough to cause that much damage." "Then why hasn't anyone found us yet?" I wondered. If there wasn't much damage, why were we still trapped? He didn't respond. He shined the light around our little cave checking out the damage even further. I grabbed another piece of gum and stuck it in my mouth, chewing it quietly in my corner. "Are you looking for a way out?" I asked. "No," he responded. "I'm just checking to make sure we aren't going to be smashed in here anymore than we already are." "Do you think it's going to collapse even more?" I worried. "I don't know. I don't know how much is being held by this little counter. We could be crushed at any moment, Bella." His words terrified me. What if this was where we were going to die? I'd die never being able to tell my family or friends goodbye. "Bella," he said breaking me from my thoughts. "As long as the counter holds we'll be okay. There doesn't seem to be any signs of it falling right now. Don't worry." I took a deep breath trying to calm myself from worrying. The minutes turned into hours and before we knew it we were both fast asleep again. It was another night of being trapped, and really no sign of anyone looking for us. When we woke up again it was the same routine as the day before. We were running out of water though, and the only food we had left was the apple. He shared his chips with me the day before, so I offered to share with him. In the small amount of time he turned on the flashlight, I held out the apple towards him. "It's okay, you take it," he refused. "Are you sure? We don't have any other food besides this. I'd feel bad eating all of it. Why don't you just have a couple bites?" I suggested. "I'm fine, Bella. I want you to have it." I didn't like eating the entire apple while he went without. I continually offered him some, but he refused. "Bella, can I ask you something?" he wondered later in the day. "What do you see in James?" he questioned. "You don't have to tell me if you don't want to, but it's something I've always kind of wondered." "I don't know," I answered. "I guess because there's no one else interested. When he first asked me out I was kind shocked to be honest. I never really understood why he asked me out. But, he makes me happy." "How does he make you happy?" he asked. "He just looks out for me and takes care of me." He laughed and shook his head. "You mean controls you and tells you what to do." "It's not like that," I defended. "Really? Is that why he very rarely ever lets you out of his sight and tells you what to do all the time?" he questioned harshly. I knew he was right but his words stung. James had pretty much controlled everything I did since we started dating. I didn't talk to any of my old friends anymore. I didn't go anywhere or do anything without him. He was probably the main reason I was failing biology because he wanted me to skip school with him all the time. "The only reason he ever asked you out was because of your dad. I'm sure your dad adores him and James is a perfect gentleman in front of him. This is how James gets around doing all the illegal things he does. He has you and your dad wrapped around his finger. In both of your eyes he can do no wrong." "That's not true," I further defended even though I saw the truth in what he said. "No one else wants me. He's the only person who's ever shown me any interest, and I'm popular because of him." "You clearly have no idea how many guys in this school fantasize about you." I giggled at his idiotic comment. "No one fantasizes about me." "I assure you they do. It's why James always keeps you close because he knows he could lose you." "Isn't that a good thing? I want him to want me and not let anyone else come between us." "Not if it means hurting you." "He's not hurting me," I countered. "Then why are you failing biology? Why do you not have any friends unless he approves them? Why do people avoid you?" he chuckled. "Do you think I don't want to help you in biology just because I'm an ass, or do you think it might have more to do with wanting to stay clear from James?" "He's really not that bad of a guy if you give him a chance," I excused. He chuckled and rolled his eyes before flipping the light off and crawling over to his own corner. We were both silent for a while, lost in our own thoughts. "Edward," I began. "When you said there are guys who fantasize about me, who are you referring to?" "Name a guy, Bella, and I assure you they've thought about you." "Why? What's so special about me?" "Well, first of all you're unobtainable because of James. That makes you appealing. Second…" he began but paused and sighed before finishing. "Because you're beautiful." He barely said the words loud enough for me to hear. In the darkness I gave in to my elation and smiled. Did the boys at this school really think I was beautiful? "Do you fantasize about me?" I asked quietly. I could hear him shuffling in his seat and clearing his throat. "I didn't say I do, I just said everyone else does." "So out of everyone at this school you're the only one who doesn't?" I asked playfully. He sighed nervously and swallowed hard. "Bella…" he began to talk but stopped short and left his word hanging. "You do, don't you?" I further pressed in a teasing way. "Maybe I did when I first moved here, but that changed when I found out who you really are." "What does that mean?" I asked angrily. My joy suddenly turned to anger. "It just means you weren't who I thought you were, and the fascination turned to disgust." "Are you trying to say you find me disgusting?" I asked. "I'm saying I find your behavior disgusting," he clarified. "I mean, I know you're smart, Bella, yet you dumb yourself down for the sake of some guy who doesn't care about you and for popularity. It's your senior year of high school and you're throwing it all away. You're kind of an idiot." "Gee, thanks." "You wanted to know." "Let's just not talk about it anymore." "Fine with me," he accepted. Again there was silence. After a while of only the sound being of us adjusting our sitting positions, I broke the silence again. "Can you turn on the light again? I need a drink of water." Suddenly there was a light shining in my face, causing me to blink and block the bright light with my hand. After my eyes adjusted to the light I found the bottle of water on the floor and took a small drink. There wasn't much left so I offered the bottle out to Edward. "No thanks. I don't need any," he refused. "Edward, you haven't eaten or drank anything all day. You need water to survive." "I'm fine. I had a piece of gum earlier. You take the water." I knew what he was he was doing. He was sacrificing the food and water for me. As much as I appreciated his nobility I didn't like him going without. I decided right then I wasn't going to drink any more of the water until he did. We went to sleep that night, at least what we thought was night, and slept most of the next day as well. We were both getting weak and it was becoming apparent help wasn't coming anytime soon. The longer we stayed trapped, the more hope diminished. I rocked nervously back and forth as the thoughts of dying consumed my mind. "Edward," I cried. He hummed in response, barely awake from the weakness overtaking him. "What if no one's looking for us? What if there isn't anyone left? What if the whole town died from the earthquake?" "That's not possible. Someone will find us," he assured. "But what if they don't? What if by the time they do it's too late? I don't want to die here," I cried. "What if I never get to see my mom and dad again?" "Bella, calm down," he ordered. "You can't start freaking out now." "I can't be down here anymore. I need to get out," I screeched, beginning to move around in the darkness. I was starting to hyperventilate, and I didn't care if everything came crashing down on me. I was going to dig my way out if I had to. "Bella, no," Edward shouted grabbing my arms to stop me. "I can't stay here," I shouted and pulled away from him. As I began to try and push my way out a few little pieces of wood fell and there was a shift in the rubble. Edward shouted at me to stop again, but I didn't listen. I screamed at the top of my lungs while he pulled me back. In an instant, my screams were quieted by Edward's lips against mine. He held my face in his hands and kept his lips firmly planted against mine. I was stunned into submission and calmed down from my outburst. When his lips left mine, and he was sure I wasn't going to scream anymore, his hands slid off of my cheeks and he sat back. I stared over at him in disbelief. "You kissed me?" I stated the obvious. In the dim light from the flashlight I saw him shrug and stare down at the floor. "I needed you to calm down before you killed us both." "You thought kissing me would calm me down?" "It worked, didn't it?" he pointed out. As much as I felt like the kiss meant more, I didn't push the matter. Maybe it didn't. And honestly did I really want it to? I had a boyfriend and I was happy with him. I wasn't about to complicate that from an innocent little kiss during a heated moment of panic. As the hours passed we listened to more shifting and settling of the rubble above us. Every time there was a large shift Edward would sigh heavily. I knew he was worried everything was going to fall on top of us. "I'm sorry," I whispered regretfully. "I'm just scared, Edward. I don't want to die." Sobs welled up in my throat once again. I heard him move across the floor and wrap his arm around my shoulders allowing me to cry on his shoulder. "It's okay, Bella," he comforted rubbing my shoulders and soothing my hair. "I won't let you die. I promise I'll do everything I can to keep you alive." As I continued to cry and lose my composure in his arms he continued to hold me tight. "Do you want to know something I've never told anyone?" he asked. I sniffled a little and swiped at my tears before looking up at him. Any distraction right now would help. His eyes were downcast and there was a concerned look on his face. "Before I moved to Forks, I had a brother. He died though, and it was my fault." His words were so abrupt. I wasn't sure how to respond. "It happened when I was really young. We were on a camping trip and we begged my parents to let us go on a hike alone. My mom was against it, but my dad told her to let us go. We needed to be boys and explore the forest. We took off running through the trees and played for hours. We came across a creek, and at first we just had our feet in but being the older brother I pushed him in and he got soaking wet. He started to cry, and I told he was being a baby. We started to head back to camp, and I thought I knew where we were and how to get back but I didn't. My brother stayed right next to me and trusted me to get us back to our parents, but I couldn't. I was scared and frustrated, but I didn't realize being so young he was just as scared as I was, if not more. I got mad at him and blamed him for getting us lost even though it was my fault. We were out all night with no clue where we were. He was so tired from walking around all night so we finally stopped and waited for someone to find us. During the night he died of hypothermia. If I hadn't pushed him in the water he might have been able to survive." "Who found you?" I asked. He sighed and choked back a sob in his throat. "Some rangers found me the next day, cradling my brother in my arms. I was unresponsive for days. My parents didn't even want to look at me. I know they blame me for his death. I barely talk to my parents now even though it's been nearly seven years." "Is that why you're so withdrawn from people here?" I asked curiously. I felt his shoulders shrug from underneath me. "I guess I just don't like being close to people. I don't want people to know I'm a murderer." "You aren't a murderer, Edward," I argued. "It was an accident. You couldn't have known what was going to happen. You were just a little kid. You can't put that type of responsibility on yourself." His arms tightened around me as we settled back against the wall to sleep. Having his arms around me while I slept brought a welcomed comfort. For some reason I felt safer and more confident being with him. When we woke up again, Edward handed me the water bottle which only had a sip left in it. I shook my head to refuse. He hadn't drank or ate anything for a while, and he needed it more than I did. "Bella, crying yesterday made you lose fluids. You need it more than I do. Now drink," he demanded. "I'll be fine." "I can't drink the last bit of water knowing you haven't had any in a day and a half." He sighed frustratingly. "If I take a small drink first will you finish it off?" he compromised. "Okay," I agreed. In the dark I heard him remove the cap and the swish of the water when he tilted the bottle towards his mouth. Seconds later the dim flashlight shined in my face and he handed me the bottle. I drank down the last little bit and tossed the bottle to the side. The flashlight went off and again we were surrounded in darkness. I snuggled back up against his chest and his arm wrapped around me protectively. "You didn't drink any of the water, did you?" I asked quietly. He hesitated answering me. I looked up into his eyes barely able to make him out. "No." Realizing how much he was sacrificing for me to survive, I was overcome with gratitude and love for someone I was once supposed to hate. He was planning to give his life for someone he barely knew and didn't exactly care for. Tears streamed down my face coming to terms with the fact that if I'm found alive, he might not be. His thumb gently brushed against my cheek, wiping the tears away. "Don't cry," he whispered. "It's okay." The palm of my hand rested against his cheek as I stared into his eyes. I leaned forward and pressed my lips to his. Our kiss was tender and filled with emotions neither of us were ready to face. He cradled my face in his hands as his lips moved against mine. For the better part of an hour we kissed and just held each other. I didn't want to let him go. I vowed to myself I would do everything in my power to keep him alive with me. I wasn't leaving this trap without him. For two more days we laid on the floor in each other's arms and slept most of the time. We were both so weak and dehydrated. Being trapped in such a confined area made it very humid and hot, and we were both sweating profusely. Sweating only made us weaker and sleepier. During the times we were awake I told Edward stories in hopes it would help him hold on a little longer. Most of the time he'd end up falling asleep half way through my stories, but as long as he was still breathing I knew he was still okay. I rested against his chest listening to his heartbeat and the rise and fall of his chest while he breathed. We held on to each other for dear life. We were all each other had to survive. If it wasn't for him, I probably would have died from fear by now. On our sixth day of being trapped, we heard a lot of shifting amongst the rubble above us. Edward was concerned enough to make him sit up and pull me to the far corner of our little hole. We curled up as close as we could, waiting for the sounds to quiet down. "Bella," he said with an anxious voice. "If I don't get out of here tell my parents I'm sorry." "Don't talk like that," I demanded with tears stinging my eyes. "You are getting out of here, and I'm going to tell everyone you saved my life. You're going to be the hero. You saved me, Edward." Just as his fingers brushed across my cheeks, there was a loud crash and the countertop we were huddled under broke. Edward wrapped his entire body around me as everything came crashing on top of us. I screamed Edward's name repeatedly but he didn't respond. We were crushed together under the counter. I cried and screamed for help begging God for someone to find us. I was sure Edward was dead, which terrified me even more than being smashed between the floor and everything piled on top of us. When I felt Edward's hand grab mine in a weak embrace, I held onto it so tightly. As long as he still held my hand, he was okay. "We'll get out, Edward. We're going to be rescued. They're on their way. Just please hold on, for me. Please, I can't make it through this without you. Don't die on me. I need you," I cried. "I'm not going anywhere," he whispered. I could tell by the struggle in his voice he was barely holding on. I didn't know what kind of injuries he'd suffered while trying to protect me from the collapsed countertop, but I was sure there was something wrong. For hours I prayed and begged for a miracle while I listened to Edward's labored breaths. I didn't want to die. I didn't want to lose Edward. Just as Edward's breaths began to slow and become almost non-existent I heard voices. At first I thought it was my imagination, but when I saw a small stream of light shining through I knew we were being rescued. We're here," I screamed. "We're down here. Please help us." "Bella?" I heard my dad's voice shout down towards us. "Daddy," I cried. "I'm here. Please save us." "We're coming. We'll get you out." "Edward, they're coming. Edward," I sobbed. I squeezed his hand trying to arouse him. "Edward, answer me." I heard the slightest groan giving me hope he was still with me. "Please hurry," I yelled. "Edward needs help." "We're trying to get to you as fast as we can," someone yelled. I talked to Edward the entire time they dug us out. I couldn't tell if he could hear me or if he was still alive, but I wasn't giving up hope. As long as I kept talking he had to be okay. It seemed like forever before they reached us. They finally pulled up Edward's lifeless body. I was pulled out next and rushed to a nearby ambulance. I had paramedics all around me taking my blood pressure, poking me with needles, and covering my mouth with a mask. "Oh, Bella," my mom cried, throwing herself on top of me. "We thought you were dead. It's been the hardest days of my life not knowing where you were." "I'm fine, Mom. Edward saved my life," I explained. "Are you hurt anywhere?" she asked. "No, I said I'm fine," I said again. "She seems to be just fine other than being a little dehydrated and possibly needing a couple stitches for the cut on her hand," the paramedic explained to my mom. "Where's Edward? Is he okay?" I asked. "They rushed him to the hospital. He wasn't doing very well," my dad informed rubbing my shoulder. "Dad," I cried. "Is he going to be okay?" "I don't know, Bella," he answered regretfully. "I don't know much about his condition. All I know is when they pulled him up he didn't look good. They took off in an ambulance as soon as they got him on the stretcher." "Can we go to the hospital? I have to know if he's okay." "Bella," my mom began to argue. "Please," I begged sadly. "He saved my life. I have to know if he's still alive." My parents gave each other a questioning look before turning to the paramedic attending to me. "We're going to need to take her to the hospital anyway. You can find out about Edward then." "When am I going to the hospital?" I asked anxiously. "We're looking for Mr. Banner still. Was he with you?" the paramedic asked. "No, a few minutes before the earthquake hit he left the classroom to go make some copies in the teacher's lounge," I explained. "He wasn't in the classroom?" my dad asked. "No. Who else can't you find?" I asked. "You and Edward are the first we've found alive," my dad informed knocking the wind out of me. "Who did you find not alive?" I asked beginning to cry. "Bella, don't worry about that right now. Let's just get you to the hospital and we'll send the ambulances right back as soon as you get there," my dad suggested. As I was wheeled into the ambulance I looked back at the destruction of the school. Most of the west wing was collapsed and sections of the front entrance were destroyed. It looked surreal and terrifying. I don't know how anyone could survive. I'm surprised even I survived after seeing what the damage was. During the drive to the hospital the paramedic did his paperwork ignoring me for the most part. "How much damage was there to the town?" I asked breaking him from his work. "Quite a bit," he answered. "The earthquake hit the whole northwest pretty hard. There's damage all the way from Northern California stretching up into Canada. It's been a mess for rescuers and doctors in the area." "How many people have died?" I wondered. "I can't give you an exact number, but there have been quite a few fatalities. Even going into the wreckage at the high school we didn't think we would find any survivors. You're very lucky to be alive." "I'm only alive because of Edward. He kept me safe, and he knew exactly what to do. He's my hero." He smiled and nodded his head. "I'll have to make sure his dad hears that. I'm sure he'd be really proud of his son." "His dad?" I wondered. "Yes, his dad is a doctor at the hospital," he explained. "He's been a mess not knowing where Edward was, but he's a doctor and he had to help the wounded people coming in and push aside his own fears." "I did everything I could to keep him alive," I explained. "He sacrificed everything so I would survive. I owe him so much." "I'm sure he'll be fine." Once we were at the hospital I was rushed to a room and transferred to a bed. I had more tests done and at least three nurses fussing over me. My parents came in shortly after I arrived. "Have you heard anything about Edward?" I asked. "They won't tell us anything, Bella. At least not yet," my dad informed. I sighed in frustration and turned towards the wall. All I wanted to know is if he was still alive. I had to know he made it through. A little while later a doctor came in to check me over. I was informed I had to stay in the hospital for at least a night to recuperate. My mom stayed by my side through the night, while my dad had to go back out to help with the recovery of other people trapped at the school. The next day my doctor said I was free to leave after my mom signed some papers. I asked again about Edward but no one would tell me anything. My mom helped me get some clean clothes on and she did her best to tame my mess of hair. I really wanted to go home and take a shower. I wasn't expecting visitors, but as I sat there I heard the familiar voice of James coming down the hall. There was a pit that grew in my stomach as he got closer. I had the sudden twinge of guilt and the overpowering sense of dread come over me. I didn't want to see him. He walked into my room with three of his friends following behind him. "Hey, Bella," he greeted casually. My mom stood up and told me she was going to go sign my release papers. "Can you ask about Edward again?" I begged. She nodded her head and gave me a reassuring smile. James chuckled and the other guys who were with him did the same. "I heard you were trapped with that nerd in the science wing of the school. I'm sure that had to be fun," he joked. "Did he cry the entire time?" I glared at him from across the room and my jaw clenched in anger. "He better not have touched you, otherwise I might need to teach him a lesson for messing with something that doesn't belong to him." I stood up and walked across the room towards him. He smirked as I got closer. My fists clenched at my side, and once I was close enough I swung my fist and punched him in the nose as hard as I could. He stumbled backwards and grabbed his bleeding nose. "You are the most vial person I have ever known," I shouted in his face. "I am not your property. I don't want you to ever speak to me again." "What the fuck, Bella?" he shouted. "What happened to you?" "I came to my senses and found out who I really am," I informed. "If you ever touch Edward again I'll beat the shit out of you after I tell my dad all the illegal things you do." "Why the fuck are you defending him?" he asked angrily. "Because he saved my life and he doesn't deserve crap from an ass like you." I walked past him and into the hallway. I saw my mom at the nurse's station signing papers and decided since no one would tell me about Edward I'd go find him myself. I walked down the hallway unnoticed and searched the files on the outside of the rooms for his. Finally, at the end of the hall I found the file with his name on it. I slowly opened the door and walked in. I heard the rhythmic sound of the monitors which brought me a sense of relief. At least he was still alive. I walked to the side of his bed and sat down in the empty chair next to him. I took his hand in mine and held it for a moment. His other arm was wrapped in a cast from his shoulder down to his wrist. There was tape wrapped around his chest and quite a few bandages on his face and neck. Seeing him like this brought me to tears. "What are you doing in here?" a woman asked from the doorway. I quickly dropped his hand and stood to my feet. "I'm sorry. I just wanted to know if he was okay," I explained. She walked across the room and looked over Edward for a moment before turning back to me. "Are you Bella?" she asked. "Yes Ma'am, I am." "He's been asking about you," she informed. "He's been awake?" I asked excitedly. "A few times," she answered with a nod. "He's exhausted and in quite a bit of pain. He has a broken collarbone and a few cracked ribs." "He saved my life," I said looking over at him. "He sacrificed his own life so I would survive. If it wasn't for him I would have died. He's the most amazing person I've ever known." I turned back towards her realizing a man stood behind her now with his hands resting on her shoulders. "He told me about his brother. He told me to tell you if he didn't make it that he was sorry. He blames himself and I don't think he should. He's a hero in my eyes." Both of them were fighting back the tears. They nodded their heads in understanding and leaned into each other for comfort. "Bella," a weak voice called. I quickly turned back towards Edward and rushed to his side. I took his hand in mine and he turned his head as best he could towards me. "Are you okay?" "I'm fine, thanks to you. You saved my life, Edward." "We'll give you two a minute to talk," the man I assumed was Edward's father said, guiding his wife out of the room. "Are you sure you're okay?" he asked again. "Did the doctors look at the cut on your hand? Did they do x-rays to make sure you don't have anything broken?" "Edward," I interrupted with a giggle. "I'm fine. I wasn't hurt in any way. You took most of the blow and protected me from getting crushed." He sighed in relief and squeezed my hand tightly. "Thank you," he said. "For what?" "For not dying on me," he explained. "I wouldn't be able to bear it if you died." I smiled and rested my head against our entwined hands. "I wouldn't have survived if it wasn't for you." "I'm sorry about the kiss," he blurted. "I won't say anything to James. We can pretend it never happened. It was just one of those crazy things we did out of desperation and fear." I smirked and leaned towards him pressing my lips to his. "Don't be sorry," I whispered against his lips. "What about James?" he asked. I brushed a stand of hair off his forehead and ran my fingers through his hair. "I broke up with him. He's not the guy I thought he was. I want someone who actually cares about me and someone I know I can trust." "Is this just your way of getting me to help you with your biology homework?" he asked playfully. I giggled and kissed him again. "Don't you remember? Part of the school collapsed. We don't have homework anymore." With his free hand he reached up and brushed my cheek with his knuckles. "If you associate yourself with me you aren't going to be popular anymore." I shrugged not caring at all. "There are more important things than being popular." He smiled and cupped my cheek with his palm. I closed my eyes and leaned into his hand reveling in his touch. "You could have anyone you want. Why me?" he wondered. "Edward will you stop asking stupid questions and just accept that I want to be with you?" "Sorry. I'm not used to this. You're not supposed to want someone like me. I'm just worried this is only because of what happened to us." I shook my head vigorously. "It's not, Edward. You just made me realize how self-centered and naïve I've been. I want to be with someone who is genuine and not afraid to be who they are. I want someone who will let me be me and not try to change me. I want you." He smiled crookedly and chuckled lightly at my confession. I nestled my head into his neck and his arm wrapped around me like he did when we were trapped. "I would like to know something, though," I added. "I want you to tell me the truth about whether or not you've fantasized about me before." He turned his head away bashfully and grinned. "No," he refused. "I think you have," I teased. "Maybe," he answered vaguely. "You have," I concluded with a grin on my face. He tucked a strand of hair behind my ear and let his fingers linger at my neck. He pulled me towards him and brushed his lips against mine. "Yeah, and I still am," he confessed before kissing me fully. The End	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7133105/1/Calamity-Hope	<urn:uuid:de4d6ad6-ad0a-464b-bc10-560d9ab7cbf5>	en	0.994027	0.099037
Oh, the ignominy. The sheer, utter humiliation. Samsung go to court to prove their tablets aren’t a blatant rip-off of Apple’s iPad, and what does the British judge say? She'll be Apples… though not quite Apples enough to get into trouble The judge says they win. He agrees that their products are not the same as Apple’s. He says, and I quote: “They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design.” And then he says, in what must have felt like a belligerent, ungloved slap across Samsung’s corporate face: “They are not as cool”. Ouch. Poor old Samsung. In the techo world, there is no greater insult that being called uncool. It’s the ultimate putdown. It’s like when American Idol judge Simon Cowell used to tell warbling contestants “you’d be lucky to sing in the piano bar of a Holiday Inn”. Apple has been playing the cool card since 1984, when it famously showed us, with the aid of an ‘80s chick in short shorts, that the year 1984 wouldn’t be like George Orwell’s 1984. Then in the era before the iDevice and the supreme coolness of pretty much everything designed in Steve Jobs’s twilight years, there was that series of Mac vs PC ads. In that campaign, the Mac was represented by a dude in a T-shirt, while the PC was personified by a middle aged schmuck in an ill-fitting grey suit. Yes, Apple have been cool for a long time and still are, even if there are now countless gizmos, many of them cheaper, which do pretty much exactly what the iThingos do and look the same. Similar court cases will soon be heard in Germany and the Netherlands. Samsung should hope they actually lose this time. Bugger the legal ramifications. The payoff from the coolness will more than compensate. And by the way, if they do lose they should remind themselves that there’s nothing that wrong with being a copycat. After all, as Steve Jobs himself said, “Creativity is just connecting things”. Author’s note: at least the uncool guy in the ad didn’t have the usual symbol of total loserdom: baldness. Most commented Show oldest \| newest first • Cobbler says: 11:59am \| 10/07/12 How absurd. Apple have done nothing but rip-off everyone elses designs for year, dumb it down, claim it’s idiot proof and then resell it at 200% the price. For them to start doing this puts their flagship phones and ipods at pretty big risk of being banned since they were old news when they came into being. • Ohcomeon says: 12:14pm \| 10/07/12 Who did Apple rip off? Tablets were garbage before the Ipad, I used pretty much every version of windows mobile tablets, and they all sucked. Apple simply make excellent appliances. But I wouldnt touch their computers with a barge pole, unless I have to for work. • Meph says: 12:32pm \| 10/07/12 Before the iPod Touch and iPhone, most touch-screen devices used inductive based screen technology. Commonly the plastic cover that was necessary to pinpoint where you were touching was prone to tearing, rendering it useless. Capacitive touch-screens were uncommon due to the expense and complexity of design, so if nothing else, you have apple to thank for the explosion of cheap and effective scratch resistant touch-screen devices you see and likely use every single day. • Confused Fuddy Duddy says: 12:40pm \| 10/07/12 Ohcomeon please name the windows tablets that were available before the iPad. • JB says: 12:42pm \| 10/07/12 Do you have any examples to back up this statement. Who did they copy when they released the iPad? iPod, iPhone? Come one sport, prove this isn’t just a stupid baseless statement, give us some facts. • NikRaf says: 12:50pm \| 10/07/12 who did apple rip off ! lets see Gene Roddenberry with the star trek communicators, the pads out of 2001: A Space Odyssey . there is the 2 you need to look at to see where the rip off’s came from . but just about everything nowadays is • Cobbler says: 01:28pm \| 10/07/12 The following companies were producing mp3 players years before the iPod - SaeHan Information Systems, Diamond Multimedia, Hango Electronics, Creative, Cowon (who’s product was called the iAUDIO before the iPod ever existed), Archos. Companies like HP, Panasonic and Frontpath have been making tablet PCs for ages (I’m talking since the late 90’s). That’s not to say that these products were perfect (not that Apple’s are) but there’s a clear history of products fitting the niches of iPods, iPads and iPhones that Apple have obviously largely copied. Their marketing department is brilliant, no question, but to suggest that their work is original and to take a company like Samsung to court over it is a pretty big call. Samsung is basically doing the same thing with the iPhone in America. If that gets up there will certainly be a lot of tears. • JB says: 01:53pm \| 10/07/12 @Cobbler, Did ANY of the products you mentioned look very similar to the iPod? In addition seeing as a court has agreed with patent infringement they seem to have a case, at least in the eyes of the court @NikRaf, stay on your meds mate! • Another Chris says: 02:07pm \| 10/07/12 Apple didn’t rip anyone off. They don’t break new ground, they simply improve what’s already out there (i.e capacitive touch screens). iPod’s are one of the easier to use brands. They were one of the first to chuck 1.8” hard disks in MP3 players. I believe Compaq/HP both had Tablets on the market before Apple that used XP tablet edition. There are most likely other brands out there too. Their design, whilst ridiculously simple would have a level of IP on it and subsequently, it’s been one of the most copied designs in the world. I’m an IT Guy. I use Windows 7 for desktop and laptops and apple on my portable devices. Why? Because I like simplicity. Apple have a slick GUI with a polished OS that does the job well. I don’t want a massive screen on my phone, it needs to fit into my pocket and not inhibit my movement. I don’t want to customise everything on my Tablet or phone. Ok, iTunes isn’t the best but their are other apps out there that can replace it if you really feel strongly about it. • Jason Todd says: 02:08pm \| 10/07/12 Cobbler - I don’t think anyone would call into question that MP3 players and tablet PC’s existed before Apple revived them, but it is what Apple did with them that made a difference. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a huge Apple fan, but what they have done really well is marketing to the average consumer. Tech heads flip their lid at trying to use an Apple device because things are so locked in and so constrained, but that factor that tech heads find so frustrating is what winds up appealing to the average user. Locked in means hard to break. Apple products are easy to use and pretty idiot proof straight out of the box. That is an appealing quality for a lot of people. Particularly those average folks who are not technologically inclined. • Greg says: 02:13pm \| 10/07/12 Apple and Steve Jobs especially never had an original idea in their lives their game plan is simple 1. take an already existing idea 2. modify it & put it in a pretty package 3. jackup the price 4. ???????? 5. Profit everything they have done was around before they ‘invented’ it mp3 players, smart phones, laptops, computers, tablet computers. They are just incredibly good at making things look nice and pandering to the lowest common denominator (apple fans) • jim says: 02:35pm \| 10/07/12 @Cobbler, If you don’t want it, don’t buy it. If you want a cheaper version, you get what you paid for. All Apple is doing is protecting their Intellectual property. They may have spent millions of dollars researching design, almost half a decade in designing the software or layout. When they find perfection at a cost of millions, someone else copies the design at no R&D cost on their end… So what do you want? Human civilisation without inventions? Why invent then? Where is the reward? • Mr. Jordon says: 02:45pm \| 10/07/12 The only people who say that Apple just rips other off dont know much about Apple. • Pickles... The Drummer says: 03:36pm \| 10/07/12 @Jim - So by your logic Apple should be paying royalties or be banned from producing everything they have because Xerox spent millions inventing the mouse, GUI, WYSIWYG word processing, etc and then Steve Jobs stole it? The Samsung tablet looks as much like an iPad as the iPad looks like every other tablet before it. Why? Because there is only so many ways a tablet can look, its a tablet after all, a screen and a plastic case, nothing more. Apple are trying to build a monopolistic empire. Its about time they had the good old Microsoft monopoly law suit brought against them. After all, they are a bigger monopoly and more anti competitive than Microsoft ever was. • Astrosodi says: 03:36pm \| 10/07/12 And if you read the judgment rather than just relied on the journalists reporting the one line (the one about not be ‘as cool’), you’d quickly discover that another point the Judge in this case amde was that Apple did not invent the tablet. The Judge pointed to quite a few (50) examples of tablets that pre-dated the iPad. Making a product cool and fashioanable is not the same thing as inventing it. the iPad may be ‘cool’. The Judge also pointed out a remarkable number of differences in design bewteen the two products, and stated that of course utility (function) prescribes certain similarities, and Apple cannot hold a valid patent for functional aspects. ‘Cool’ is in the eye of the beholder, so behodl away! • Salec says: 04:32pm \| 10/07/12 Yes most phones used inductive technology becuase that was all that was available. Apple didn’t invent the capacitive touch screen, nor were they first phone with it. They lucked out and released their phone just as usable touch screens were making it to the market - see the LG Prada, which looks a lot like the iphone and had a capacitive touch screen and was released 2 months before it. Phones with nothing but a touch screen were an inevitable consequence of the forward progress of touch screen technology which allowed multi-touch - nothing to do with Apple. Apple have a wonderful marketing department, and good ideas, but they aren’t the be all and end all. Most of their products are slightly technically inferior to their direct competitors, but much more user friendly. Their UI design is second to none, by a long way. Hence their popularity. But to suggest they invented, or popularised capacitive touch screen technology is just wrong. They happened to release their phone just as the technology matured to allow multi-touch. • Sam de Brito says: 08:32pm \| 10/07/12 Fair dinkum. What did Apple rip off? How about the GUI and NLS and the mouse? • LL says: 08:34am \| 11/07/12 Ipone ripoff LG Prada released before the Iphone was announced. Tablets were around before multiple models It does not come down to functionality or looks (albeit in this case they went for a very borad design patent saying they own a rectangle device which is absurd.) It comes down to Apple making something better for users patenting stuff that was invented before them and hten claiming they invented it. Eg the Kinect hand gestures first psuehd out by Microsoft but guess who si trying to patent the idea’s DING DING DING DING Apple. They copy other peoples inventions patent them, then claim they invented it. • Alfie says: 12:00pm \| 10/07/12 Nowhere near as cool. Sent from my iPad. • What's it all about says: 12:23pm \| 10/07/12 If they compared useullness, ipad is the big loser. Posers like the style over substance. sent from my windows 8 tablet. • Alfie says: 12:59pm \| 10/07/12 Like predictable text, you mean? • Inky says: 05:37pm \| 10/07/12 Oh dear Alfie, looks like you missed slightly as well. He actually said ‘useullness”. Isn’t it nice to have a mouse? • Simon says: 06:01pm \| 10/07/12 Actually, it is well settled and documented that Jobs ripped off the mouse from Xerox • miloinacup says: 12:29pm \| 10/07/12 I own a samsung galaxy phone and all I ever hear from my iPhone owning friends is how much they wish their screen was as big as mine, and how light my phone is compared to theirs. I’ve owned both and while I hate the fact that android apps are nowhere near as good as iphone apps, I prefer my samsung. • NigelC says: 02:10pm \| 10/07/12 Spot on. I have a Galaxy SII (and Galaxy Tab 10.1) for personal use and work also provides me with an iPhone which is smaller and heavier and offers nothing to beat the Samsung product. • MarkF says: 02:53pm \| 10/07/12 Couldn’t agree more. Just bought a Samsung Galaxy Note so I have no need of a tablet with the big screen for consuming media and internet content on the Samsung. It also allows me to jot down notes at work so a win win for me. My eldest daughter just had to have an Iphone 3gs. Told her they were crap with limited functionality and apple trying to gouge you every time you turned around. She got it of course. Had great fun teasing her when the battery exploded and blew the phone apart (thankfully while it was on charge). She now has a HTC and is a committed droid fan. Whenever I listen to someone raving on about their crapple stuff and how superior they think it makes them two words spring to mind. Sheep and wanker. • natalie says: 02:59pm \| 10/07/12 Not to mention a lot of the apps that are free on the Android market are not free as ipone apps. • B says: 04:48pm \| 10/07/12 Yeah, because iPhones are soooo heavy and the screens are sooo much smaller. Please. Talk about nit picking. Apple products are easy to use, look good, and that’s why they sell. Haven’t you figured out that the world bases everything on looks, technology included. Never had one problem with ANY of my Apple products. People just love to bash Apple. Don’t like it, don’t buy it - and allow others to buy them and use them in peace. What do you care if I have an iPhone? It doesn’t infringe on your rights. You don’t see Apple users mouthing off about other products. In other words, shut your word hole. • Ben C says: 05:11pm \| 10/07/12 @ B “You don’t see Apple users mouthing off about other products.” That’s because they’re too busy boasting about how “good” their product is. “Haven’t you figured out that the world bases everything on looks, technology included.” I don’t know about you, but I’d rather my purchases be functional rather than pretty. That’s why I steer clear of Apple. • HappyCynic says: 08:35am \| 11/07/12 @the Apple users You guys realise that the iPhone is actually not the best-selling smartphone? In Australia it is but we’re one of the few markets where it does outperform its competitors. Android rules the market these days, with Samsung and HTC fighting it out for top spot, so there’s proof that function generally wins out over form. For the record I love Apple products, I’m just not a d!ckhead about it. • cracks me up says: 10:32am \| 11/07/12 and how many times you can drop it without damaging the screen • John says: 12:31pm \| 10/07/12 There is nothing - but nothing - as boring as an argument between the Apple fanbois and the Apple haters. Why people get so worked up about this stuff (“Steve Jobs was God!”, “Steve Jobs was evil personified!”) is one of the great mysteries of the early 21st century. • M says: 03:40pm \| 10/07/12 You know what kind of worries me but not really? This obsession with the latest phone/gadget. I will admit that I fell prey to it myself, but after an iPhone 3 and currently a HTC, i’ve reached the conclusion that a phone is a phone is a phone, and all I really want from it is to call and text and maybe send the odd facebook update. Thus, it doesn’t phase me which model I will get next, or which has the biggest processor. I’m no tech head by any stretch of the imagination, and thus, the OS wars mean little to me. My next phone will be the one with the longest battery life. • Lee says: 06:22am \| 11/07/12 It used to be Microsoft was the evil one and Apple was the underdog. Now Apple is proving they are just as monopolising of the market when given the chance. Personally I don’t want i anything as I feel the only main difference between them and others is a good marketing department. I am an android fan and personally I have found an app for anything I have wanted. I just want a smart phone with a decent battery life • willie says: 12:39pm \| 10/07/12 Haven’t you heard. Mainstream isn’t cool. If a stuffy old judge thinks the ipad is cool its definitely not. • VVS says: 05:37pm \| 10/07/12 That’s what I was wondering… since when was a 60 year old white guy an arbitrator on what is cool??? If the just thinks it’s cool it probably was at one point in history, but not anymore. “If peeing in your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis” • NikRaf says: 12:43pm \| 10/07/12 you do know he may of been saying you need a brain you use the Samsung tablet but you can be a blonde and use a ipad • Mick says: 04:50pm \| 10/07/12 an iPad • Nic says: 11:17pm \| 10/07/12 *may have • You don't know says: 10:59am \| 11/07/12 to use • Mahhrat says: 12:44pm \| 10/07/12 You will always buy Apple for the looks, you buy everything else for the flexibility (and in some ways, functionality). While the individual products can be very good, iTunes does its best to undo all that good work. It’s a terrible program, the requirement to use it is absurd, and the whole thing just smacks of the kind of ridiculous elitism that’ll apply for 30% of the population, while the rest of us buy everything else. • M says: 01:13pm \| 10/07/12 Yep, iTunes is a bastard of a programme. • LJ Dots says: 01:50pm \| 10/07/12 M, I commend you for your grace, composure, restraint and decorum when describing iTunes. Well done. • Jb says: 02:05pm \| 10/07/12 Clearly you have never owned a Mac or know their capabilities! So really you look and sound like a fool!!! • Ben C says: 02:18pm \| 10/07/12 @ Jb For artistic endeavours, I would recommend a Mac, no questions. Everything else, go with a PC. • Greg says: 02:22pm \| 10/07/12 JB 95% of things you can do on a mac can be done much better on another platform windows linux w/e the exceptions being arty things like graphic design and music making, so if you aren’t involved in those fields you are just paying overs for a mac so you can try and sound cool. Buying something in a shiny coloured box when you can get a better version for half the price in a plain black box for half the price, makes perfect sense • M says: 03:44pm \| 10/07/12 I’ve owned a mac, and I’ve owned a windows PC. I’ll take windows thanks. • M says: 03:45pm \| 10/07/12 LJ dots, it was all I could do to not let loose at the thought of itunes. There is much hate bottled up over that stupid program. • Ohcomeon says: 09:09am \| 11/07/12 your Itunes problems are largely user error. Fact. I sort out a lot of peoples Itunes, and their problems are nearly always self inflicted. Folks dont realise its a database, and if your data is garbage then it will run like garbage. Meh. Ive got 250gb of music in Itunes running on a server, i can stream wireless music all around the house to three different zones, use the ipad as a remote control, and it all works perfectly, all the time. Sure the interface can be sluggish at times for file transfers, but if youre not using wireless sync by now you are doing it wrong. • fml says: 12:49pm \| 10/07/12 “In the techo world, there is no greater insult that being called uncool.” Maybe if you are a technology hipsters, anybody who understand technology knows you only buy apples for the look. Ask anybody who buys an apple mac, do you use them for the graphics or audio software? The majority say, no. Then you buy it for the looks? they say, no again. Then why do you buy apple macs? because they do what I need. Which is essentially, surf facebook and send emails. What they do not understand is that you can by a linux machine for less than 1/4 the price. Apple purchasers are technology hipsters. Admit it. Also, They should buy the new raspberry pi’s, $35, you can even browse facebook and send emails. Also, Apples chinese practices are disgusting with their high rate of suicide (something technology hipsters do not give a crap about), Also, the hypocrisy of apple who used to complain Microsoft’s litigation and anti competitive practices are now using the same tactics against samsung. I am not a samsung fanboi, I just despise “Apple Fanbois” thinking that they are technologically savvy. #End Rant. • NikRaf says: 01:09pm \| 10/07/12 if you look around i think you will find apple has always been whining about what other people do and taking them to court because they have some thing close to what apple has out at the time its a bit of do as i say not as i do • Admiral Ackbar says: 02:59pm \| 10/07/12 I agree with fml, and will now proceed to eat my own head. Om nom. • Fred says: 12:54pm \| 10/07/12 “Cool” often means tosser. Being a pretentious hipster and paying 2-5 times the price for the same thing whilst pretending to care about the world and using a product that was made by some poor Asian working in a factory where many people have killed themselves I believe renders one in that general tosser ballpark. Actually, if you’ve seen the way they carry on when they open an Apple store or release a new product, as if they’ve just saved the world, I think it’s safe to say they are very much a bunch of tossers. Yep. Tossers. • SKA says: 12:56pm \| 10/07/12 I actually would have been keen to get a samsung galaxy but laziness won out. Trying to convert out all my itunes library was far more effort than just getting an iphone. These days, I like both Samsung Galaxy and the iPhone… but then, I’m definitely not “cool” smile • Jason says: 01:27pm \| 10/07/12 It’s not the company which annoys me, it’s the users who never shut up about the “superiority of the apple products” and the way the mainstream media constantly advertise for Apple in the form of “news articles” about the latest product release. Sure Apple do pay Chinese people a pittance to make their nice hardware and it’s very pleasing to the eye (even if functionally limited by the OS), but they are a long way from the best. For quality, performance and customer support I’d take Asus hardware hands down. This is based on 20 years working in IT infrastructure btw, not just a fanboi view. • JB says: 02:00pm \| 10/07/12 @Jason, 20 experience? So you started with dialup modems too then. I have had a mac and other Apple products for many years. I too have had previous experience with Asus products and I am not a fan like you are. I have had less problems with me Mac in 4 years then in 6 months with a PC of any brand. Clearly you are a PC person and never owned a Mac you really can’t comment can you. I will grant you some functionally is limited by the OS but that is something that is minor compared to the overall reliability to the brand. • Lee says: 06:29am \| 11/07/12 My favourite was an article saying that Tablets are now usually called iPads no matter what brand they are. What a crock I only hear of people calling a tablet and iPad when they are one. The only people that call any Tablets an iPad are those with iPads or those that have no idea. JB I will put functionality right up there on the wanted list • Blind Freddy says: 01:49pm \| 10/07/12 I recently bought a Samsung Note - the one with the big screen. It makes the iPhone look pretty ordinary by comparison and it’s soooo good to be free of iTunes. Cool? Who cares . . . • master says: 01:58pm \| 10/07/12 So this is what “journalism” has turned into? • freethrow says: 01:59pm \| 10/07/12 apple dont really invent anything, they buy other companies ideas and inventions then market the shit out of them. sure they own a lot a patents, but so did Thomas Edison. i dont even want to talk about itunes…. • Doh says: 02:05pm \| 10/07/12 Wow another journo who doesnt get it. How does Apple now block Samsung selling, they now have to argue that the Samsung IS AS COOL as theirs. The Judge just put it right back on Apple and their stupid use of Cool as a patent. Samsung actually won, they can now sell their products and market them as ‘Hot’ or something similar, Apple just won the right to use a word. • John Dark says: 02:11pm \| 10/07/12 Huh, and here was I thinking this was going to be Ants’ summation of the State of Origin ... • Mr. Jordon says: 02:36pm \| 10/07/12 Have a look at Samsung’s product lines. They just copy the market leader. Their vacuum cleans for example are just a straight out copy of Dyson. • AdamC says: 02:36pm \| 10/07/12 Apple is extremely effective at creating products with broad mass appeal that look good, are very reliable and are based on easy-to-use interfaces. I can never understand why ultra-technical geeks are so over-the-top in their criticisms of the highly-integrated and tightly-controlled Apple products and services. Apple products are not made for ultra-technical geeks, they are made for people like me who like using gadgets and technologies but are not really sure how any of it works. People like me do not mind the lack of flexibility and appreciate the user-friendliness. When taken out of its context, the anti-Apple sentiment makes no sense. For example, I do not like fruit juices. They are too sweet and too acidic and lack the nutritional benefits of eating actual fruit. So I do not drink fruit juices, but their popularity does not upset me. Lots of people like fruit juices, just as lots of people like Apple. Were I to start ranting about how bad fruit juices are, most people would just think I was a nutter. Meanwhile, Samsung has a good model in basically knocking off Apple products and selling their stuff more cheaply. There is nothing wrong with that, so long as they can stay ahead of Apple’s litigation. • James1 says: 02:55pm \| 10/07/12 Agreed. I don’t like the fact that Apple retains tight control over their products and services, so I don’t use Apple products and services. My nine year old daughter doesn’t have such issues with Apple, so she does use them. What neither of us do is bother to tell the other one they are stupid for pursuing products that suit their preferences. The tendency you raise reminds me of the gaming thread. Some people like to play games, so they play games. Other people don’t, and in some cases instead of just not playing games, they expend effort telling other people that they shouldn’t play games either. Furthermore, while watching Today Tonight for research purposes only and absolutely no other reason, I have discovered that there are people who rant about how bad fruit juices are, rather than just not drinking them and eating fruit instead. I’m sure there is a lesson in human nature buried somewhere in those disconnected observations. • sami says: 02:36pm \| 10/07/12 I am proudly uncool: I love my samsung and I love my bald bloke wink • Alfie says: 02:50pm \| 10/07/12 Which little bald bloke do you play with the most? • Another Chris says: 03:24pm \| 10/07/12 i c wut u did thar Alfie. • Bill Stickers says: 03:16pm \| 10/07/12 Am I the only one who remembers how ‘Apple’ ripped off the name from a hugely popular record company? Even the Logo was similar. • Mr. Jordon says: 03:59pm \| 10/07/12 The Beatle’s company was called Apple Corps. Steve Jobs choose the name Apple because at the time he fruitarian and spent a lot of his time on apple orchards. Are you suggesting that no one can ever use the word ‘apple’? • Danny B says: 04:55pm \| 10/07/12 Apple has - I think they tried suing a German restaurant for using ‘their’ logo and corporate imagery, even though the logo was completely different. • Levi Seven says: 04:06pm \| 10/07/12 um - has any heard of the Fujisu Stylistic tablets that were released years before the ipad - hmm the ipad bears a striking simularity to them • Gloria says: 05:21pm \| 10/07/12 • stephen says: 06:07pm \| 10/07/12 And what organic mechanism is that ? The bullshit one ? And you forgot one important thing, amongst others :that when you win, someone else feels bad. Now don’t that just beat all ? • Gloria says: 06:20pm \| 10/07/12 Oh Billy, you’re so stoopid. • freethrow says: 06:48pm \| 10/07/12 I too know what its like to thirst! • freethrow says: 07:03pm \| 10/07/12 Billy, I have four words for you: “Listen to the Woman”. • Inky says: 05:41pm \| 10/07/12 Everyone reading this thread should go and listen to the Bill Gates vs Steve Jobs Epic Rap Battles of History. Becuase y’know, it’s pretty cool. • stephen says: 06:01pm \| 10/07/12 Apple are excellent, and I have all their products bar the iPad. I’m waiting for them to develop a bacpac with a jet thruster so I can get from A to Z quickly. They can call it the iWannagetouttahere. • Craig says: 08:03pm \| 10/07/12 The race dosn’t go to the first mover, it goes to the organisation that best meets its user’s needs. Apple took a bunch of products and made them work better for people. That is the hardest part of invention. Hardware and software are commodities, Apple charges a price premium for usability. Whether you respect them for this or not, they are successful because of it. • Apple Smapple says: 09:16pm \| 10/07/12 No. Race go to an organisation that convince them that the organisation will meet a user’s need which need the organisation manufactures in the first place [marketing 101]. Ergo, Apple convince people firstly that they have a need, which secondly only Apple can fulfil. The only thing Apple are good at are marketing. Sent from my Window Phone 8 via a Windows Server 2008 on my Windows Surface which is a bunch of products that work better for people and which are not not charged at a premium for people who truly understand functionality and substance over smoke and mirrors. • Noely says: 06:44am \| 11/07/12 My daughter recently learned a very important lesson in cool… As other kids, had to have an ipad, as it is cool, was basically uselss in highschool as nothing worked with it and was always having to borrow one of our computers to finish assignments, basically it was a cool toy to play with only. Hit Uni this year and was unhappy that instead of upgrading her ipad to the new version we got her an Asus Transformer Prime. After 6 months at Uni her and ‘bumble-bee’ (the prime) are inseparable, she is constantly amazed at how much work she can do, stunned that other devices work with it, even more importantly, now that she has to pay for stuff herself, stoked that she can use numerous cords and the like, not having to purchase all the extra bits & pieces that apple require, AND loves that when doing assignments with others (as you have to do) you can actually toss a USB in there, AND it is all basically the same size as her old ipad, and she can still ‘play’ with it on the train? Working in IT we have never cared about cool, popularity etc., we have always wanted what WORKS best in the circumstance. Apple is over-priced and apart from hard-core graphics work, pretty well redundant and a waste of money for the average person. I am sure that Marketing degrees in years to come will be featuring Steve Jobs and Apple as they are predominantly a pop culture marketing firm, long gone are the days when they were a serious IT firm. • Ohcomeon says: 09:21am \| 11/07/12 Thats pretty embarrasing for you that you work in “IT” but you couldnt make anything work with her Ipad. Im a sysadmin that looks after hundreds of PCs, and my ipad is an essential tool for work and play. For every single limitation that Apple places on IOS, theres 5 workarounds. Theres literally nothing I want to do with mine that I cant. It opens any file I want, and I can send any file anywhere to and from the pad. I pity your customers if you are as ignorant about computing in general as you are prejudiced against apple. • seanb says: 09:00am \| 11/07/12 Curiously, the actor playing the un-cool PC guy in the ad uses a mac in real life. • ITGod says: 11:11am \| 11/07/12 Apple vs Anything Else… iTunes.. I rest my case! • Ohcomeon says: 12:01pm \| 11/07/12 ITGod suffers from user error. Who woulda thunk it? • ITMan says: 11:16am \| 11/07/12 @Ohcomeon: I am an IT Manager, and from experience, we just NEVER hire a sysadmin that shows up with an iPhone or an iPad. We really don’t want any “sysadmin” that hasn’t a clue. I would prefer one who has a phone or a tablet running custom roms, at least they know something about the devices they are using plus have some semblance of security. • Ohcomeon says: 11:59am \| 11/07/12 Hilarious. Real techs make use of any tools. Refusing to hire someone because of the phone they carry just makes you a dickhead. We hire people that can make anything work with anything, because thats what actually happens in the real world. When an visiting MD from another company comes in with an unsupported IOS device, you probably just sneer at them instead of being able to get it to talk to anything. Im not for a second saying that Apple is any good for Enterprise, its simply not. But saying the pad isnt a useful tool just means youre ignorant. Custom roms. Lol. Youre priceless. You are basing an employment decision based on something an 8 year old can do. Too funny. I know some top flight MS engineers that use IOS products for home, youre the one without a single clue. • ITMan says: 12:42pm \| 11/07/12 @Ohcomeon: Fact: if you let a visiting MD plug his unsecured iPad or any IOS device into your network then you are a fool. Have you no concept of security whatsoever? Anyway my point is proven and yet another reason we don’t employ any tech who shows up to an interview with an iPhone or an iPad. • Ohcomeon says: 01:19pm \| 11/07/12 Got any more strawmen while youre at it? Where did I say Id let an unsecured device onto the network? And pray tell what exactly is the infection or exploit vector of an ipad vs an android tab? Specifically now please. Its quite easy to access and sandbox data on any device without letting it near your network proper. I get the feeling you are a lot more ‘Manager’ than “IT”. PS youve proven nothing except that you shouldnt be in a position of hiring technicians. • ITMan says: 12:44pm \| 11/07/12 @Ohcomeon: Oh and P.S. I agree on your comment “Real techs make use of any tools.” however your assumption that iAnything is anything other than a toy is where you are failing. • Ohcomeon says: 01:31pm \| 11/07/12 Toy? I can do basic server management in bed over encrypted VPN on my pad. Im pretty sure my old Etch a sketch couldnt do that. Android can also do that. But android is Pr0 and IOS isnt. Got it. Then I might do some music composition on Beatmaker. Shame its a toy. I know Ill fire up one of the pro music suites on my Android. Oh wait, there arent any because it doesnt have any low level audio support in the kernel, something they have only begun to address last week. Wont be taking that on stage then. Shame I have to use the toy Ipad instead. Keep sneering. Ill just go back to using my secure portable touch computer that does whatever I want. • ITMan says: 01:57pm \| 11/07/12 @Ohcomeon: Yes and my PocketPC from 10 years ago could access of secure VPN. Music apps have what to do with business again? Toy, nothing more, nothing less. Oh and P.S. allowing unsecured, devices connection to any part of your network is a MASSIVE security risk and a fire-able offense around here. Thank goodness you don’t work for us, although I just know you wouldn’t make it through the interview process wink • Ohcomeon says: 03:40pm \| 11/07/12 So, what specific security issues are there with plugging an iPad into your network over an Android or windows device? Specific exploits please, I’d hate to think you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. Every company forbids plugging in unsecured devices. That doesn’t prove your assertion that the iPad is a toy. While you’re at it, what specific security protocols do other mobile devices support that IOS doesn’t? Facebook Recommendations Read all about it Punch live Up to the minute Twitter chatter Recent posts The latest and greatest The Punch is moving house The Punch is moving house Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this? Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this? Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming” Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming” Gentle jabs to the ribs Superman needs saving Superman needs saving Read all about it Sign up to the free News.com.au newsletter	http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/sometimes-youre-better-off-losing-than-winning/asc/	<urn:uuid:001c0a6a-f95d-47ac-92a4-c717f566a09e>	en	0.958304	0.034038
A Super Mario Bros. Fanfiction, by Mushroom Scribe Most characters ©Nintendo, except one or two OCs that aren't very important. Story elements and other junk are © me, myself and I! Rated T (leaning toward M) for interspecies romance and some "sexy moments" in later chapters, but no outright porn. Current revision beginning June 15th, 2011. The Mysterious Scent Chapter 1: Friends In Low Places Mario paced back and forth in the dark, musty cell. Why had he jumped? He knew the Donut Lift had looked kind of rickety, but he needed the Starman above it – a power-up like that could come in handy anytime, anywhere. Maybe he shouldn't have been so greedy. Of course, he had missed the star, crashed through the Donut Lift and the rotted boards on the ground below, down into a high-walled pit. Not even the master of the jump could make his way out, and after a few tries resigned himself to waiting for King Koopa to show up and gloat. What a terrific way to start the work week. Flash forward to him alone in the evil lizard's castle dungeon, going stir crazy. He tried to look out the tiny window near the ceiling, but all he could see was a tiny patch of cloudy sky. Oh boy. Pulling at the corners of his mustache, he sat down on the cold hard stool in despair. It looked like he'd have quite a wait. Oh, eventually Luigi or Princess Toadstool would figure out where he was and launch a rescue operation... but probably not tonight, and definitely not in the next ten minutes or so. Might as well rest his legs. Time slipped by, maybe an hour or more, before an unexpected noise startled him from his reverie. It was a sort of a soft plodding, perhaps bare feet or in stockings, but there was a clicking, as well. He thought it could be Toad's soft little shoes, but that didn't explain the other sound. Maybe it was two people, or a person and their pet? Presently, the noise stopped, and in the dim light he could make out a dark shape standing in front of his cell door. The visitor was roughly half a head shorter than Mario, but he couldn't make out much else. It bent forward, and he heard a tinkle of something metal dropping. "Who's there?" he whispered, almost afraid of startling them away like a deer or a rabbit. All movement halted like time had been frozen. Then the figure whirled and ran for the stairs, making the strange pad-click noise as it went, and was gone. Just like a deer. Mario sat there for a minute, trying to figure out what had just happened. At a loss, he decided to investigate the metallic sound. There weren't many other options. Frowning in concentration, he stood and walked over to the bars. He bent down and felt around for something, anything foreign. What if his mind was playing tricks on him and nothing was there? What if none of that had even happened? But while feeling around with his arm stuck through all the way to the shoulder, his hand finally grasped something flat and hard. It was disk-like on one end, and the rest was like a metal Popsicle stick. One side of the stick had jagged edges. A key! Hallelujah, salvation! Then he noticed something else: a string was dangling from the round end. He felt down it and came upon a folded piece of paper. It was impossible to see what was on it in the low light of the dungeons, so he stuck it in his overalls' chest pocket for the time being. Then, almost giddy with excitement, he shoved the key into the lock and turned. It opened like a dream. Mario had never thought the sound of scraping metal would make him so happy. He pocketed the key and fled the dank dungeon as fast as his legs would carry him. The open air felt great on his face. He took a few deep breaths, gazing up at the night sky. The few clouds he had seen from the window were long gone, and there was a clear blanket of stars overhead. What a lovely night to be free! Mario walked across the plains toward the Mushroom Village he called home. He put his hands in his pockets and started to whistle a little tune he had heard a lifetime ago, something fun and upbeat. Nothing could deflate his good mood now... or so he thought. His right hand curled around the key absentmindedly, and the scrap of paper sprang to mind. In his haste to flee Bowser's castle, he had completely forgotten about it. He pulled it out of his pocket and unfolded it. It was an unsatisfyingly short letter: I hope if you're reading this, you've escaped via the key. I'll be in touch soon. -A Friend." Mario looked at the note in disbelief. Who could it be? He thought of his friends, but none of them would be so cryptic about a jail break; they'd just burst in and drag him out, knocking Troopas and Dry Bones out of their way left and right. Besides, that wouldn't explain the key rather than simply destroying the lock. Why go through the trouble of picking Koopa's pocket? The plumber in the red cap analyzed the handwriting; he didn't recognize it. He sniffed the paper on impulse; it smelled of expensive perfume. What did it add up to so far? His savior was a woman; short, and probably well-off if she could afford imported stuff like that. But it didn't exactly end there. There was something else about it that enticed him, made his mind cloudy. That may have been due to over-smelling; he realized he was getting lightheaded and stopped, feeling a little silly. The height factor ruled out the Princess. Even hunched over, she was too tall to have been his rescuer. He frowned at the paper, then put it away. He would just have to wait and find out. "It's kinda funky," Luigi said to his brother. "This girl – or who you think is a girl – just left the key with this?" He waved the paper around in the air. "I dunno, Mario; I smell a rat. She didn't say anything at all?" "Nope, just ran off," Mario replied while fiddling with a socket wrench. "Didn't leave a forwarding address or anything. Didn't even realize she was a girl then; not until I caught a whiff of the perfume." Luigi stared hard at him. "You okay, Bro? You act like your mental pipes need a little Drain-O." "Hmm?" Mario said, looking up. "Oh, yeah, I know. It's that smell... I wish I knew what it was. I've never smelled anything like it before, but at the same time I think I have. You know? It stirs up feelings..." He stood up, brushing off his knees as he tried to brush off his niggling doubts. "Well, I'm gonna go home and get some shuteye. See you tomorrow, paesano." Luigi handed the paper to him. "Night, Mario. And don't keep yourself awake worrying about this; it'll sort itself out sooner or later, I bet." Mario headed back to his hut. Putting aside the perfume for now, he thought about the sound she had made. What could make that sort of sound? Tap shoes? Steel-toed boots? They didn't even sell those in the Mushroom Kingdom. He hoped it would make more sense to him in the morning. It had to, because at the moment it didn't make any sense at all. Our intrepid hero awoke to the sun's golden rays filtering through his window. He rolled over and looked at his clock; 10:25. Oh well, he didn't have anything to do this morning, but he usually didn't like to get up so late; the early bird catches the cacciatore. After a quick shower and a shave (he had to keep his mustache neatly groomed, didn't he?) Mario dressed and shoved on his scuffed-up work boots. Was that shoelace frayed? Time to buy a new one or it would probably snap at the least opportune time; he didn't want to be dangling over a pit of lava when the boot fell off, that was for sure. Nodding, he stood up and grabbed his cap. Maybe he would head over to Toad's for a cup of espresso before he went shopping for- Something felt odd in his chapeau. He doffed it and looked inside. There was an envelope there. How had he not noticed it to begin with? On a sudden impulse, he smelled it; it was the same perfume. He didn't know why, but he was instantly exhilarated. She'd returned! Not only hadn't he noticed the envelope, but she'd come and gone without him ever waking up. What a sneaky little minx. The plumber was halfway out the door when he realized he hadn't even read his letter yet. Laughing at himself, he opened it up and did so: I know my last correspondence was brief, but I was running low on time. Not that I have gobs of it now; any second could be the one in which I am discovered. I hope you can forgive my intrusion into your home, but I couldn't risk leaving this exposed in your mailbox. We have much to discuss, if you're open to it. Meet me in the apartment by the Pipe Maze Treasury at 1 AM tonight (well, technically tomorrow, but you know what I mean). Please come! -Your Friend." Mario didn't know what to think. His mind was pulled in a thousand different directions. For instance, he didn't know if he should show up; it could be a trap. But if it was, why had she saved him in the first place? Was it a woman as he suspected, maybe somebody from back in his own world? Why all the skulking around – why couldn't she just come to him in the light of day? Not to mention how she'd confiscated the dungeon key, or why time was an unattainable luxury for her. He couldn't resist finding out who it was; this person could be in real trouble. Still, he told himself he would at least bring along a power-up or two, just in case it was a trap after all. That smell, now even fresher in his mind, consumed his thoughts like wildfire. As he slowly walked down the road toward Luigi's, he idly wondered if it could be incense instead of perfume; it was definitely headier. It made him feel alive, and it somehow reminded him of home a little. Something he'd experienced at a rock concert in his younger days, but not exactly that... A new thought entered his mind. What would the Princess say? As the resident monarch, she should be aware of what he planned to do. He turned to the right and headed off toward the castle. Mario tried to be quiet as he landed. The entry pipe was a far drop, but it was the quickest and easiest way to the Treasury, so it was either that or picking his way around blind corners for hours. Rats squeaked through the dark green metallic tunnels. Pipe Maze – also known as the Waterworks – was the entire Mushroom Kingdom's supply of clean water (save Dark Land, which didn't get clean water at all). He knew every inch of it pretty well by now, especially the area near the Treasury. After all, he was the plumber extraordinaire. He approached the door to the "apartment". In reality, it was a cramped, spartan room next to the Treasury that contained a bed and a table with a couple of chairs and a naked light bulb. That's it, no kitchenette, no rumpus room, not even a toilet. As far as he knew, nobody had ever lived there; it was basically a secret hideout. It just wasn't quite as secret anymore. Mario patted the Fire Flower and Super Leaf that were in his pocket. Princess Peach (who surprisingly let him go without putting up any sort of fight) had given them to him, in case he ran into even more trouble, warning him to watch his back. The kind-hearted ruler wanted to help anybody in distress as much as he did, but she was practical and cautious. All commendable traits. This was it; he was at the doorstep now. He knew his "friend" was on the other side, whether she meant to ask for help, or... He held his breath and turned the knob. The room was cold and dark. The smell of mold wasn't quite as prevalent in there as in the rest of Pipe Maze, as the builders had attempted to make it moisture-proof and had mostly succeeded. His hand felt the nearby wall for the light switch, and flipped it. Nothing. He had only a moment to wonder why the ceiling lamp wasn't working when he heard a young voice whisper to him. "Close the door." Mario jumped. He looked around, squinting, but his eyes still hadn't adjusted to the lack of light. The stranger was hiding in the shadows somewhere, away from the rectangle of harsh light cast by the open doorway. He didn't know what else to do, so he did as she asked. "Okay, hold on," the quiet voice said. Suddenly there was a strike and a blinding flare as a match was lit. A gloved hand was holding it, which slowly moved to a candle on the table and transferred the flame to the wick, then threw the match on the floor where it quickly burned out against the stone. Now that he could see a little in the dim light, the plumber struggled to size up his company. It was the same shape as in the cell, but he could now make out a few details he couldn't before. He could see the shape was due to the heavy traveling cloak she was wearing. It covered her entire body, and the hood shadowed her face too well to observe any features. She was sitting in the chair, facing him, and he still couldn't meet her eyes. He noticed the other chair was in the corner, broken. It had been a long time since he had been here. "Sit," she commanded, gesturing to the bed. He supposed it would have to do, as he didn't feel like standing, so he sat across from her. Now all he could see was a black form, as the candle was directly behind her. Even so, he could tell she was fidgety. More than a few times, she glanced back at the door as if readying to bolt in terror. "Are you alone?" "Yes," he said slowly. "Good. I need your help." As he was now sitting very close to her, the scent from the first note and the envelope was overloading his olfactories, and he almost felt like he was on some kind of drug. Maybe it was something from a concert after all. He had unknowingly tuned his nose to be extremely sensitive to this particular smell, and now he was getting a real noseful of it. Because of this it took him a long time to find his voice and answer her. "Go on." "I'm in so much danger even being here right now," she sighed in trembling tones. "Seriously, we'll both be lucky to survive with all our limbs still attached. What a ditz I am! This is probably a bonehead move, I know that like I know dirt is dirty, but still... I can't stay silent any longer." Again, she checked the door. "I need to know if you can protect me." "From what?" "From- from... oh, screw it, I can't do this! He'll kill us both!" She started to make a break for the exit, but Mario stood up with her and grabbed her arm in a vice-like grip. "Who? Who's going to kill who?" Her head turned to him. "I don't want to get you caught up in the insanity. It's not right. You seem like a nice guy, and I can't expect that from you. This was a mistake. I'm sorry." She once again turned to leave, but Mario wouldn't let go. "No. I want to know. It's my nature to protect people, not to mention my secondary occupation is hero of the Mushroom Kingdom. Let me try." Alas, she didn't say anything – just shook her head. He still couldn't see her, but knew she couldn't be lying. He just didn't know how he knew; it was innate. "Please, dolce ragazza," he said, dipping into Italian to call her a 'sweet girl' and hoping it would win her over, "tell me what's going on. I'll see if I can help." She then looked up at him, sucking in a nervous breath as she considered him for a minute or so. For the first time, he could see something, as small of a thing as it was, and he felt his pulse quicken: she had the clearest blue eyes. "Okay," she gusted, letting out all her air. "If you're sure. I guess I can't stop you." The azure-eyed shadow slowly returned to the little chair by the table. As Mario sat down across from her, she began, "I'm about to tell you some really horrible things. Nightmarish things. I still don't think I should tell you this-" "Please, this suspense is making me nauseous," he interrupted. "I'd rather fast-forward and deal with the truth, whatever it is." "Right," she said, her head hanging as she steadied herself to go through with it. "Well, I guess I should start by telling you that all my problems stem from my family. My brothers torment me constantly, and my father doesn't understand me." She paused a moment, then continued. "This all probably sounds like your average dysfunctional family unit, but it's worse. Way worse. I'm just... I've never talked with anybody about it before." Mario placed a hand on hers. Through his own gloves he felt that hers were leather. He could hear in her voice that she was probably right – he didn't want to hear this. But he knew she had to be suffering, and couldn't let her do it alone. "It's okay, take your time." "My brothers hate me. Well, most of them. Lee doesn't, but he sometimes acts like he does in front of the rest to save face. He's really the only friend I've ever had. Lug's done terrible things to me; horrible. The rest make my life a hell, too, but the youngest ones are just sheep, y'know? It's the older ones that I genuinely hate right back. It's probably because my father..." She trailed off, leaving the room in unearthly silence as she wiped at her eyes. Mario could almost predict what came next, but was hesitant to ask. He could feel his anger rising already. "Your father?" "He's an abusive alcoholic, Mario," she blurted. "It's been a huge strain on our whole family, it's why our mother left when I was only four... I barely remember her, I can't picture her face anymore. The youngest don't remember her period." There was a noisy swallow. "I can hardly believe I'm finally telling someone." Mario patted her hand, even though his own felt numb. "I've heard it helps. So, did he ever... hit you?" "No. Not much, anyway. Once. He was so far gone he couldn't even stand, just passed out in his own filth in the living room. What a mess. I tried to hoist him up, to carry him to bed so he could sleep it off... and he slapped me, saying he didn't need any help from fungus." She choked on the tears she was trying to hold off. "He didn't even know it was me. Then he was passed out for the rest of the night." "I guess that means he hit your brothers most of the time." "Yeah. Every other night, you can hear him beating them. Once a week, you might hear one of the little ones crying because they saw the older ones getting pummeled. Even though they don't like me, I still can't help but wish they weren't living there." She looked up at him. He could no longer see her eyes because of the candle behind her, but he guessed they were gushing tears by now. "I've never actually been able to analyze my life. Now that I have, I know I could never go back to it. I... wow, I can't believe I'm saying all this, but I want out. I'd like to learn what it's like to feel safe for once." She squeezed his hand a bit. "My dad knows about this place, so I'm not very safe here, that's for sure. Do you know anywhere I can escape to? Maybe your world, um... Ert, or something? Sorry, I forgot what it's called." Mario thought about it a moment. She could be a mushroom girl, couldn't she? Someone from the Village who was too afraid to blame her family because Mario might know them. If that was the case, she certainly wouldn't go unnoticed on Earth. Then again, she could be a human. But then, how did she get there? Either way, they needed to get out of Pipe Maze. "Why don't you come back to Toadstool Castle with me? We can protect you there." The girl seemed surprised by the offer. "To the- oh, no, I couldn't, I..." "What? Why not?" "Well, I don't really think I'd receive a very warm reception. Please, I just wanted your help in finding a good Warp Zone that can shoot me off somewhere where nobody can find me. Where he can't find me. Then I'll be out of your hair forever." "Aw, don't be like that. Princess Toadstool really is a benevolent ruler. I don't understand how she could turn you away." "My past," she hedged. "Nobody could forgive me that easy." "Why? Who are you?" Without hesitation or another word, she stood up and bolted for the door. Mario jumped up and reached out a pleading hand, shocked, but she was already out and away. He ran after her, but couldn't see any trace of a cloak disappearing around a corner. Gone. You might think he lost her there, but don't forget that he's a plumber. Pipes were his life, and he could hear which way she went by listening to the echos. He heard the sound of footfalls heading for the north exit. And he knew a shortcut. Mario turned down a dark pipe tunnel that smelled terrible. The walls were very close, but he could still run through it with no trouble. At the end, it opened over a huge sewage tank, and he ran across the catwalk to the other side, holding a oily rag over his mouth to blot out the stench. As he re-entered the brighter tunnels, he could only hope she was still heading in the same direction. She was, his ears stated, and was now behind him. He passed a few tunnels to the east, then stopped. The sound of her footwear hitting the metal was growing louder. He crouched in the adjacent tunnel. Suddenly, she burst into view with her hand about the neck of her cloak. Her head was pointed over her shoulder, so she didn't notice him until he sprang at her. She screamed, then tried to dodge, but he caught her arm and took her down. "No, please! It won't work, let me go!" Mario had her pinned to the floor by her shoulders as he sat back, panting. "Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you or anything, but I can't let you run off just because you think there's some reason for Peach not... not to... oh." Now, there are a few things in life that you can prepare for. You can get ready for your first trip to Hawaii by packing swim trunks and booking the beachfront hotel in advance. You can get ready for a party by dressing in your sharpest threads and picking up a box of Tic Tacs (in the event you find yourself in the backseat of someone else's car later). You can get ready to commit suicide by praying, writing a note and amending your will to exclude that annoying uncle who drove you to do it in the first place. This was not something quite so easy to prepare for... even if Mario could have tried. The girl's hood had fallen back, and Mario was once again gazing into those fathomless blue eyes. But now, he could see more than that. Tanned scales. A pearl necklace. Full red lips. A pink hairbow with white polka dots. As strange as it was, he was staring into the face of Wendy O. Koopa. Mario jumped off of her like she were a poisonous breed of cactus. Sweating despite the cold, he backed up against the tunnel wall, watching as she sat up slowly, a sad expression on her reptilian face even as she glared coldly at him. "Do you see now?" Mario's head was spinning. He not only couldn't think of anything, but he forgot what thinking was. His mind could do nothing but compare. Compare the past several years of this girl at her family's side, tormenting the people of the Mushroom Kingdom and reveling in it... to the past few days, the rescue, the sadness of her tale, the... The smell. More likely than not, that was the scent of the female Koopa. It was the thought of her aroma that brought him back to the cloaked figure quietly sobbing on the floor of the tunnel. He had been so wrapped up in his own thoughts that he hadn't even noticed when she started crying, or when she'd pulled her hood back up to hide her "shame". Part of him knew he should comfort her, but she was a Koopa. His hatred for the family was at war with his newfound friendship with her. "All I wanted was to disappear, you nosy bastard," she hiccuped, gloves disappearing into her hood to cover her face entirely. "Why couldn't you just point me toward a bus station or something?" "You... you're a Koopa," he babbled. "But you rescued me, but... you're a Koopa. What are you trying to pull here?" "I'm trying to pull away from this life! Not like you care, or anybody cares. Or like there's any hope, any chance I can escape this. I'm always going to be a Koopa, no matter where I go or how I try to hide it. Deluding myself. Stupid... I'm such a stupid bimbo..." All at once, Mario realized it didn't matter who she was. To earn the right to call himself one of the good guys, he had to rescue anybody who asked for it – not just the mammals and fungi of the Kingdom. As one of his favorite cartoon superheroes used to say when he was a boy, 'If you're not an equal-opportunity hero, you're no hero at all.' It had been his credo since he stepped into the role of savior of the 'shrooms. Was he really willing to give it up now just because she didn't fit the shape of his usual customers? Wendy heard his footsteps, and looked up in fear. A whimper issued from her throat as she scrabbled backwards along the floor. "No, I... I'm okay," Mario said, not sure how to say he'd gotten over his brief bout with prejudice. "Are you?" Her jaw dropped as she stared at him, her eyes glistening with tears. "Wh- yeah, I guess so." When she tried to stand up, Mario offered her a hand. She looked at it a moment, still crouched on the floor. Now that he knew her identity, there was every chance she couldn't trust him not to hurt her, to pretend to be nice just long enough to throw her in the slammer. But she took it anyway, and he helped her to her feet. Some things made sense to him now. The strange noise her footsteps had made in the dungeon were due to her claws; she must not have been wearing shoes then, as he hadn't heard it this time around. The high-dollar perfume: King Bowser could certainly afford it. The sad story- He suddenly realized what family her stories were about. This got Mario angrier than he had been in a long, long time. He couldn't believe Koopa, as evil as he was, would beat his own children! It was just so appalling, so... "Ow! Mario!" Grimacing, he realized he must have been squeezing her hand and let go. "Whoops! Sorry, Wendy." She turned to him with a strange look in her eyes. Mario caught it as well; he had probably never called her by name. Not that he could remember for sure, but he'd probably referred to her as "that brat" or "Kootie Pie" up to now. Was the reaction she was displaying... gratitude? After another moment of fidgeting, she broke the silence. "It's okay. Y-you didn't mean to." They looked away from each other quickly. Mario's senses were driving him insane, and he was already halfway there from trying to process the fact that he was trying to help a Koopa escape from another Koopa. He wished he could shut his brain off from this crap, but he was spared the effort when he remembered something that sharpened his focus. "Mama Mia! King Bowser!" He ran a hand down his face. "He's gonna go into conniptions when he realizes I'm helping you drop out of Koopa Kollege!" Her head jerked, and she looked at him agape. "You're right! We can't stand around here like statues, we gotta jet before he finds out I skipped curfew! Being grounded with six brothers is not the best time to be had. Especially not my brothers." They started down a tunnel, but Wendy stopped him. "Wait... where are we going?" "Mushroom Village," Mario said, and started to pull her along. Again she stopped him. "Mario, look at me," she growled, trying to talk some sense into the headstrong plumber. "How do you think your friends will react to me strolling past their front lawns? I'll be lynched on the spot!" "Yeah, but- well, I can't think of anywhere else, and it's better than getting caught by your pops! Don't worry, we... I'll talk to Peach. If I can't make her understand, then... well, I don't know, but I'll figure something out, okay? Maybe the Koopahari Desert..." Suddenly, from the tunnel behind them, came a deep-voiced bellow. "KOOTIE PIE! Where the hell are you?" "Oh no, it's Daddy!" Mario wordlessly grabbed her hand and started off in the opposite direction. They dodged through several different pipes, trying to lose the tyrant. Wendy realized that they were heading in a deliberate direction. "Where are we headed, Mario?" she hissed. "The west entrance," he panted in reply. "It's the shortest route to the Mushroom Village." "But I don't..." Then she seemed to give up. "Guess I don't have much choice here, do I? Dear God, please let this all be a hallucination..." They wound through a few more passages, and doubled back once. Now very near the aforementioned west entrance, they stopped to listen. "We lost him," Mario said, gasping for breath. "Good," Wendy replied, sliding down the wall. "I was afraid he'd catch us. You'd be back in the dungeon, and I-" Suddenly, they were blinded by light. They tried to look through it to figure out where it was coming from, but it was too dazzling. Then, a voice sounded from within the whiteness. "Mario, what the fungus is going on here?" Mario recognized that voice: Toad. He must be on guard duty; it was an easy access point to the Village, so they had long ago decided to post a watchman there. Mario knew it was a smart idea, but in that moment he wished Luigi had never had it. He also knew he would have a much harder time getting Wendy's name cleared if she was caught fleeing in terror instead of presenting herself to the crown willingly. This was further reinforced once Toad's flashlight pointed toward the floor. Now they could see that in his other hand was a sturdy-looking pair of handcuffs. "Guess what, Miss Ameri-Koop? That's right! You're going to enjoy an all-expenses-paid night in our dank, moldy prison. Hope you have a pleasant stay!" To Be Continued! NOTES: Welcome to The Mysterious Scent Tenth Anniversary Celebration Bonanza! This is a very, very old fic. It belongs in a nursing home eating applesauce and playing shuffleboard. Still... I love it so much. It's one of the first things I ever did, and ever worked so hard on that I sometimes cried. Yeah, I cried – cried like a baby. What about it? Anyway, this will be the SECOND time I've gone back and torn it to shreds, trying to bring it up to the current level of my writing ability before continuing it. Spruced it up from stem to stern, and I got rid of that RIDICULOUS format I tried where every chapter... was three chapters...? I'm not sure what that was supposed to be, but I put it out of its misery. Please, please let me know if you readers from yesteryear miss the original version and I'll throw up a separate "Mysterious Scent Classic" - or try, if FFnet lets me. This time I mean to bring it all to an end. Why? Because I can! Because this is a beautiful planet with limitless potential, where nerds can travel back in time to the previous decade and finish a story about a plumber and his lizard love! I noticed a little while ago that exactly ten years had passed since I first threw up Chapter One, and decided it was time to remind everybody why I picked the penname Mushroom Scribe by finishing my magnum opus. Or is that mushroom opus? Uhhh... yeah. More notes in the next chapter. Back to your irregularly-scheduled program.	https://www.fanfiction.net/s/279281/1/The-Mysterious-Scent	<urn:uuid:a3f312a9-6395-4034-8344-a72e6dd05873>	en	0.991337	0.18687
Life starts... now. March 27, 2010 9:44 PM Subscribe I really want to start living my life now, as is, instead of waiting until things are "right" and obsessing about perfection - but I keep falling into this way of thinking - help! I find myself always having this picture in my mind of when things will be better/sorted out/I'll feel different and how great that will be, and I put a lot of things off until that imaginary circumstance arrives, or I'll tarnish the "now" experience by wishing that it were occuring under more ideal circumstances, and most of all get crazily stressed out when I can't or don't control the circumstances as well as I would like/intended to. This can be from minor to major things. Examples: 1. I didn't want the guy I'm seeing to come to my new apartment because I hadn't yet decorated it properly, so it didn't look the way I wanted it to look. I wanted it to be "just right" before anyone saw it, rather than enjoy entertaining people who's company I enjoy. 2. I get really stressed and anxious at work if it's not all "under control" ie my intray or work can be completely emptied, or close to, by the end of the day. 3. If I can't sleep, or am up late one night and I'm really tired, I feel like I need to take the following day off to "reset" and catch up on sleep, tidy my apartment etc and get everything in order so that I can continue to feel good throughout the week. I really get hung up on this idea of needing a "fresh" start. I'm often convinced that the following day is bound to be a write-off because of my lack of sleep and the only thing that calms me down and allows me to go to sleep that night is telling myself that ok, I can take tomorrow off and get things back under control, and then imagining everything being sorted and how fabulous that will be. 4. I often find myself telling myself that I'll do x when y happens, eg when I have the perfect boyfriend I'll go on drives to the countryside, when I lose weight (or if I looked like her) I'll miraculously feel attractive all the time (have read and reread the Fantasy of Being Thin adn wish I could tattoo it on my brain!!), when I'm really fit (with no set measure for this) I'll enter a competition, when I'm single I'll be really outgoing and make new friends - silly things that I could just do now, but I often forget that and postpone it until an "ideal time" and concentrate instead on setting up the circumstances rather than just doing what I want to do. 5. If I don't eat this specific snack before my workout, I worry that I won't have enough energy and it will be a massive failure 6. If I'm heading out and am not really that happy with the outfit I've chosen I feel like it's going to skew people's impressions of me in a way that will mess up our interaction, like I somehow want to make sure I come across exactly the way I want, and I also feel like I can't feel good until everything's just right - eg if I didn't get time to shave my legs, even if I'm in pants, I kind of feel like the day's a bit of a write-off and I'll have to "reset" tomorrow. 7. Being in relationships causes me a great deal of anxiety as OMG this could all go horribly wrong and I don't know exactly what's going on and there are no guarantees!! So I tend to avoid intimacy and just letting go. Whenever I'm unhappy or dis-satisfied I jump into "planning mode" and decide there must be some kind of magical solution, where if I just do x then y will happen and it will magically be "ok". I want to get to the point where I kind of just go "ok, x is happening. I'll try to do y but things are still ok RIGHT NOW" instead of my normal "uh huh! this is only happening cos I'm not doing y. I'll figure out what y is and do it like crazy and then everything will be just right and nothing bad will never happen again." In fact I can see that in this very question - I'm kind of hoping there's some secret answer that I can just do and then everything will be fine! Obviously anxiety, perfectionism, catastrophising and control freak tendencies here. What has helped you? What do you tell yourself when you get like this? I'm REALLY tired of living my life like this cos I feel like I'm wasting it away, I want to be able to just go with the flow more but I never have and there is a certain security (or false sense of) that comes with trying to control everything so much. The idea of NOT worrying about something seems somehow very risky. Yes, I'm in therapy, but next appointment isn't for a while. Help me make the jump and keep jumping! Bonus question: Has anyone gone from being an over anxious control freak to someone pretty loose and free and easy about life? Is it really possible to change in the long term? posted by Chrysalis to Health & Fitness (21 answers total) 89 users marked this as a favorite Interesting question. I'm wondering if you had an upbringing that embedded a perfectionist mentality in you? If so, it would be helpful to analyze it in a way that you can directly deprogram it in a way that's beneficial to you. posted by sonicbloom at 9:54 PM on March 27, 2010 Hi Chrysalis, I also have dealt with this type of anxiety and catastrophising in my life, and I definitely think it is something that can be worked with. I've done a couple things in my life that have really helped me deal with these issues. (1) I try to exercise reguarly. I really do feel like a good workout on a regular basis helps me to be more focused, and more capable, in my day to day activities. If I don't exercise, I might sit around and worry, like you, about 'getting things done', or my relationship, or figuring out the 'correct' way of doing something (schoolwork, job, dressing myself, etc.- a lot of the issues you deal with). But when I get a good workout in, I find myself starting to execute my plans, and working towards my goals, rather than thinking about the 'right way'. Definitely consider adding regular exercise to your schedule. (2) I see a therapist to help me with these anxiety issues. When things are bad (during an anxious period), I go on a biweekly basis. And even when things are good, I still go every couple of months just to check in. I see a cognitive behavioral therapist, and it really helps me to question and restructure my thoughts to have a more positive outlook. I see that you note you are in therapy, but your appointment isn't "for awhile". I would just point out that if you are going through a rough period, you should definitely consider going more frequently, if that is an option for you. (3) I try to set very concrete goals for myself, especially when feeling overwhelmed. "I will read 30 pages of this book every day", or "I will clean my room on tuesday", etc. I make a list, and try stick to it. Having reasonable, incremental goals that I can complete make me realize that I am making progress every day. You can look back at your list, and see the things you've 'crossed out' because you have accomplished it. (4) I try to recognize that my anxiety can be helpful as well as harmful. You mention that you worry about how you dress when you go out, because of what other people might think. You can reframe this issue. When you are at a point where the anxiety isn't quite as pressing, you can see that this might actually be a benefit. You pay attention to how you come accross to people, and how your actions are percieved by others. You talk about oplanning going into overdrive. But when you aren't overly anxious, someone who has this attention to detail can make very effective use of their times. These are actually GREAT skills to have. You might just need to work on tuning them down a bit, getting them under control, but certainly you don't want to get rid of them alltogether! I find these type of "reframing" exercises very helpful, because it makes me realize that there is good, as well as bad, in these feelings. I hope that was helpful. Please feel free to memail me. posted by HabeasCorpus at 10:07 PM on March 27, 2010 [10 favorites] err, "time", not "times". posted by HabeasCorpus at 10:09 PM on March 27, 2010 I'm not trying to diagnose you with anything, but I have the same behaviors you describe and I've been diagnosed with (mild) OCD. Exercising more has seemed to help more than anything else, including meds, which I haven't taken in years, has. I look forward to exercising and I think about where I will ride my bike or hike and it takes my mind off of the other things I fixate on. Things aren't perfect, but I've noticed a recent improvement thanks to this. posted by ishotjr at 10:11 PM on March 27, 2010 [2 favorites] Yeah, I do a lot of the same things. Some of this stuff I think is simply procrastinating doing something we don't want to do. The ultimate result seems like that--i.e., you don't do something that you could do know, like cleaning your apartment. I have found that there are ways I can kind of "trick" myself into getting around this thinking. One method I read (I think on lifehacker) that works sometimes is to think about how what you are procrastinating is really not that hard to do by comparing it to something that is incredibly hard to do. Not sure if that makes sense or whatever, but say to yourself, "All I have to do is clean my apartment for 30 minutes. It's not like I have to clean for 8 hours." Or, all I have to do is read one chapter of my book--it's not like I have to read 300 pages." Or even sometimes, "All I have to do is go to class. It's not like I have to go fight in the Vietnam war like my Dad did." Kind of stupid I know, but sometimes it works because it forces us to put things in a new perspective. And the thing is, everyone feels the same ways at times, and I'm not just saying that. One thing I have learned is that pretty much everyone in the entire world thinks they need to be more organized. Everyone has trouble sleeping sometimes and gets anxiety about relationships. It's natural, and in fact it may be good for us. Our body and brain have a funny of way of doing what's in our best interests sometimes. It's weird to think about, and of course, this is not always the case, but sometimes it's good that you worry about getting enough sleep because it motivates you to not stay up all night watching TV. And there may be some days when you need to procrastinate cleaning your house because you need to rest and watch a movie. It lets you rest and regenerate, and you can clear your apartment tomorrow. If things get to be really excessive, it could be an issue, but this would be obvious--e.g., you have serious anxiety attacks, of you can't fall asleep until 4:00 am every night for a month, etc. You don't have OCD. People with OCD clean their apartments 30 times a day, close their car door 18 times in a row to make sure it's locked, etc. posted by stevenstevo at 11:31 PM on March 27, 2010 [4 favorites] Chrysalis - there's no secret answer. There's nothing wrong with you, it seems to me that you are simply risk averse. And there's nothing so odd about that. The thing is this: simple logic dictates that if you do not accept the risk of failing you will never give yourself the chance to succeed. Yes, this is a cheesy cliché but it also happens to be true. I used to be of the mind that a relationship must be perfect before I would commit completely to it until I realized (after a long string of failure) that it could never be perfect unless I committed myself to it. The classic Catch-22. That's the long and the short of it: at some point you just have to jump in with both feet, give it your best shot, and hope the water is deep enough. The downside: sometimes you will hit the ground hard, but as you lick your wounds you will also feel really good and proud of yourself that you gave it a go. Just trust me on this one - I'm speaking from hard-earned experience here - you'll feel better about yourself having tried and failed than never having tried. Again a cheesy cliché that happens to be true. The upside: everytime I look at my wonderful wife and my beautiful kids I am reminded that jumping in with both feet was the best thing I ever did. And it never would have happened if I didn't take the risk to commit myself fully before I was certain that I should commit myself fully. You can't change how you feel - don't waste time trying to change how you feel - change what you do. This is in your power. How you feel will change all by itself. It's no guarantee that everything will be fine, the only guarantee is that if you do not take some chances you will never give yourself the chance to be happy - and that would be really, really sad. Give yourself the chance to be happy. You owe it to your future happy self! posted by three blind mice at 11:31 PM on March 27, 2010 [5 favorites] Read the Power of Now. Having grown up in LA I've been to more than my fair share of shrinks, but finally found one who was fantastic at helping find ways to reframe my brain around the exact same issues. This book was assigned to me as homework (and I'd read small bits of it here and there before falling asleep and I cannot describe how some of those passages just radically altered me forever and blissed me out). The other thing she recommended was a photocopied bit of text written by a more extraverted monk (more my style) and I have no idea how to find it. Until I can ask her, I'll do my best at summarizing his main idea. We are not just one identity. When you hear that anxious voice in your head worrying about whether you've had the correct pre-workout snack--try to visualize that voice as a cartoon character of one aspect of yourself. You are populated with various characters like these who will try to take control from time to time, and your job isn't to scold them or hate them or beat them up. Your job is to be their mother, which I took to mean loving them and then setting boundaries. As in, okay little anxious girl it's all good I hear you that you're worried and yes your voice matters. But I'm here and I'm going to take care of everything and even if the worst comes to pass I'm here and you can trust me to make everything alright. I know that sounds kind of crazy but it's been pretty miraculous for me. I wish you the best with this. And recognize that it is a struggle for everyone to some extent, so you're not crazy. posted by ohyouknow at 11:36 PM on March 27, 2010 [9 favorites] And as for not exercising, that's tough, and no one ever says this because it sounds stupid. Personally, I'm kind of sick of that being the answer for everything. I am well aware it's important, but so are many things in life, like sleep, doing well at your job, not eating at McDonald's, community service, saving money, etc. I think the best thing to do is focus on improving one thing in your life at a time and realize that you can do it all at once. What's worked for me is also doing things that kind of trick me into doing them. Like finding a friend and getting a plan together to go running three nights a week. Or signing up for a half-marathon 3 months from now. Or buying an iPod shuffle so I can listen to music while I work out. And then telling myself all I need to do is run for 20 minutes, which is all of about 4 songs on my iPod, which is ridiculous how little time that is. Or finding a good running trail that is not very crowded. I hate exercising around other people, so not having anywhere I felt I would enjoy running totally prevented it from ever happening. Another thing that helps for me is to disregard advice about when I should exercise. I'm well aware that it's probably great to get up at 4:30 am and go hit the stairmaster for 2 hours before work, but that's just not happening. posted by stevenstevo at 11:41 PM on March 27, 2010 Correction, meant to say: realize you cannot do it all at once. posted by stevenstevo at 11:45 PM on March 27, 2010 For the perfectionist in you, flip things around. For example, think of the last time you were at someone's apartment. Do you think they tried to make it perfect for you? And really, what would perfect be? Did you notice that it wasn't perfect? Probably not. Even if you did you probably thought about it for 5 minutes and never thought about it again. And that's my point. When you are worried about being perfect for the sake of others, just remember that even if someone notices imperfection, it's fleeting and who cares. For the other things, it's probably better to think of everything as a book. When you read a book, you don't know what's going to come on the next page. This is essentially what life is like. If you can accept that control of the story is surrendered when you're reading a book, you can also do it with life. Go with the flow and attack each situation as it arises. posted by thorny at 1:40 AM on March 28, 2010 [3 favorites] Take small steps, don't try to fix it all at once. Pick one thing that causes you a lot of anxiety and try making small changes a little bit at a time until it doesn't feel so horrifying to not do your exact routine. Exercise is good, but keep it in mind that you're doing it for health, not to be a perfect someone/size/etc that you have in your head. If you like to write, write to yourself about your anxieties and how they make you feel. Sometimes it helps to not keep it all bottled up in your head, to see it out in front of you in type/longhand. posted by Wuggie Norple at 6:57 AM on March 28, 2010 Therapy helped me a great deal with all I'd those kinds of thoughts. Also, the discovery that I was raised by a woman who suffered from some sort of personality disorder, like narcisistic or borderline, had been eye opening. I learned patterns of viewing myself and the world that were very unhelpful. Sometimes I go every week to therapy sometimes less often. It has helped do much. Please memail if you want. posted by sio42 at 7:22 AM on March 28, 2010 How old are you? When I hit my mid-thirties, I had this realization that if I kept up all these impossible standards I had about how everything had to be "just so" before [whatever], I would never have any fun. It was almost like a mid-life crisis - that life was passing me by because of my own doing (or not doing). So maybe you will loosen up with time? Sorry this doesn't really answer your question, I suppose, but I saw myself in your background info, and wanted to let you know that I changed, but it was really more of a gradual letting go than any one thing I did. Now I don't care who sees my messy house or sees me without makeup on or whatever. posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:25 AM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite] There is no need to start living your life now. You are and always have been living your life now. You do yourself a disservice when you call momentary periods of painful comparison to an unreachable standard as "life." You are living in the now. Even when you are distracted. Obsession is what we do when we don't want to think about our now life. For you it is refusing to love yourself until you reach some imagined and undefined future level of money, success, love whaterver. For you, you need to learn to feel bad about things in your real life now, rather than try to ignore them by distracting yourself with these comparisons to some better you. The key is to learn to think of these times that you think like that as spells, and times when you are living in the moment (I'm sure they occur). So ride them out when they happen and stop thinking of them as defining you. So, next time you find yourself thinking like that, find out what was happening or what you were thinking right before. Was it a fight with a boyfriend? Think about that thing, let yourself feel down and dissappointed, anxious or hurt. posted by Ironmouth at 8:12 AM on March 28, 2010 [2 favorites] 1) A good tip for getting over procrastination is to work on the task you are avoiding for a measly 10 minutes. Then stop -- if you want to. But most keep going, which is why it is so effective. 2) Before you consider therapy, do a warm-up and read the famous book "Feeling Good" by David Burns. It did wonders for "fixing" the way I think by default. 3) Don't overanalyze yourself! Your mind is in overdrive; you are stressing about individual tasks, and stressing about your overall situation too. 4) I really agree about exercise. Stop thinking long-term and just do a little each day, like a daily half-hour walk. One step in front of the other. After one week, you will have accomplished something. Build on that with another week. Then 2 more. That's a month. Pretty soon, you have a base on which to build and be proud. 5) I know some people similar to you who have benefited from transcendental meditation... seems to quiet overactive minds. Good luck, don't stress! posted by teedee2000 at 8:28 AM on March 28, 2010 [4 favorites] Life is what happens while your making plans for the future. Enjoy it now while you've got it. posted by Doohickie at 8:52 AM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite] Therapy has helped me realize how often my thinking is like yours, improved my self-esteem long term, and some ways to diffuse the anxiety short term. Two things that help me in the moment: 1. Thinking that if I can't do that big thing I'm procrastinating on, maybe I can do just one little step toward or like it. It goes along with the mantra "progress, not perfection", and I often find that if I make that small step, I want to do more, or I find something else good - at least it gets me doing Something good. I go for a bikeride instead of that drive in the country. I get to the gym and do a little bit, then figure while I'm there I might as well do more. It gets me around the omgWall of Can't to at least doing Something. 2. I visualize myself with my higher self - this is like the mothering above. I go visit my wise self as I imagine her when I'm older, and talk to her about the problem. It sounds hokey, but imagining myself in a garden or curled up in a chair by a fireplace being soothed and nurtured by myself often leads to at Least stepping down the anxiety, if not also the obvious answers that my anxiety is trying to keep me for moving forward on. Good luck! I know from experience that this stuff really can get much, much better and happier. posted by ldthomps at 9:06 AM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite] This idea probably qualifies as more of a "trick", instead of something that could "solve" the issue at the root. But even tricks can be helpful, even when you know you're doing it :) The trick would be to consider the doing of a particular thing (having friends over when your apt. isn't perfect, for example) as practice, so that you'll do even better once you do have everything set up perfectly. If you're only practicing, then you automatically have permission to not have everything go right, and that could be just the type of freedom you need. posted by wwartorff at 11:53 AM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite] I definitely have the same problem with telling myself "this day is a write-off day, I'll get to everything tomorrow" thing. I'm getting better at it. This is going to be long because it was a long process, but I hope that seeing the whole thing might help you (and whoever else reads this). 1) This question is a great start. You realize you're doing this, and you realize you could be doing those things now so it's not entirely rational. In some ways, that's the most important part; for the longest time I was able to coast by without realizing it was a problem, and then I entered the adult world and it wasn't enough anymore. Just being aware of it will help you gradually change your behavior. 2) I made myself a list of my goals, broke them down into small steps in a notebook, and wrote "NOW" next to the steps that I am capable of taking now, whether I think it would be better to get something else out of the way first or not. So, for example, it makes sense to say "I can't sign up for this class until I save the money, so I should start saving the money now," but it doesn't make sense to say, "I can sign up for this class now, but I think if I read all these other books about that subject first it'd be better, so..." I'm really bad about I-won't-do-this-until-I-know-everything-about-it for some reason. So I look at whatever has "NOW" by it, and do it. I still tend to do things that don't have the weird "but" after them first, but I get around to the ones with the weird "but" too. Plus, do you like crossing things out? It has that going for it, too. I'm positively gleeful about it. Like I'll take a thick black Sharpie and go, "OHHH, $50 IN MY SAVINGS ACCOUNT, MOTHERFUCKER! HOW YA LIKE ME NOW?" I dunno, it helps. 3) Over the course of a few years I got okay with failing by purposely allowing myself to try and fail at things. Start small and then work up to bigger things; take something you only sort of want to try out that you don't have anything invested in, and just do the best you can. One of my "bigger" things was about singing: I've been singing since I could talk and it's something my circle of friends knows is one of my talents. I am a terrible perfectionist about it and wouldn't sing anything I didn't already know I was good at. I went to karaoke with my friends for a couple of years in this manner, and then when I realized I didn't want to be the kind of person who's afraid of failure and that singing stuff well can actually be kind of boring in that context, so I started branching out and singing things I hadn't sang before, or that weren't suited to my voice, etc. Since it was karaoke, it made me feel a little more comfortable to do badly, so it was a good place to start; I realized no one expected me to be able to sing everything wonderfully, and that it's usually more fun when people do badly anyway. And as a plus, by not being afraid of failing, I found a lot of stuff I'm good at that I didn't expect to be, like rapping. And since I didn't have an emotional investment in rapping, I was able to practice without feeling threatened and after a few years I got really good. Now people absolutely freak when I rap, jaws drop, it's awesome. But I'd have never known I could be good at that if I didn't let myself fail. So now I have something to remind myself of when I get nervous about failing, and I'm so used to screwing up while singing in front of people it doesn't phase me even when I'm singing something well-suited to me. It happens to everyone. I also take note of how, when performers give live concerts and actually sing, if they mostly nail everything people don't care too much about the mistakes here and there. It's astounding when they don't ever screw up -- I'm looking at you, k.d. lang -- but everyone still has a good time and thinks they're wonderful anyway. I'm also a perfectionist about writing, so I told my writer friend to give me a prompt -- however specific or vague she wanted, just anything -- for a short story, a word count, and a due date. Having to write to a prompt made me feel a bit more comfortable with failing since it wasn't entirely natural for me. The result was pretty meh, but I looked at it as objectively as I could and saw there were good things mixed in with the bad things, and that it had not been a waste of time to do it. My friend gave her opinion as well, and I was interested to find that some of the sentences and elements that I wasn't crazy about were actually the parts she liked. Not only was it good practice in failing, but it reminded me that there is no such thing as perfect because most things are subjective. I could have fiddled forever trying to get rid of those things she liked because they bothered me a bit, and she would have found much less to like because of it. I had settled on "well, I can stand this" and it worked out better. I realized that I still had some fear there, though, so I would write spontaneous things -- like humorous sonnets or songs -- for my WoW guild. They loved that stuff so it was encouraging, plus they knew it was on-the-spot and were forgiving of imperfection, and the adrenaline of trying to pull it off quickly would stave off my internal editor. Also, I write long-form fiction so sonnets and songs were not really my domain and I was willing to be more forgiving of myself. So be on the look-out for ways you can ease yourself into failing, and after you do it a few times, realize the ways in which you didn't do as badly as you felt you might. Then amp that up. I still always try to do my best at things and set the bar high, it's just that now when I fall short of that bar I look at it more like progress, and I'm ALWAYS glad I tried. I have NEVER regretted trying, no matter how much I might feel that I'll regret it beforehand. Always remind yourself that you've regretted NOT trying. 4) The book Nurtureshock made me realize that I was raised to value natural talent over effort; my mom always said "you're so smart!" or "you're so talented!" rather than "you worked so hard!" partly because she didn't really think about how there's a difference, and partly because she really does value natural talent over effort. My entire life I had been inclined to stick only to things I was good at without trying, but especially once you're an adult, effort is everything; no one cares how good you are at something if you can't get things done. End result: perfectionist that won't even put in effort unless they know it will be perfect... and that perfect time never comes, so you never do anything. Just knowing that has helped a lot. I don't mean in the sense that it let me scapegoat responsibility to my mom and just "accept" how I am; I don't blame my mom and, if I don't feel ashamed about how I am now, I don't use it as an excuse to stagnate. It's helped me identify what's been good and bad about being raised that way, so that I can play up the good parts and work on the bad parts. For example, I am amazing at finding shortcuts and I'm efficient because I was always trying to find ways to not put in much effort. Now I look at it like I'm not going to have to waste any effort to learn this thing because I've got an efficient battle plan, so it's worth putting in the effort, it will pay off if I put in the work. 5) Once I had done a bunch of behavior modifying things successfully and I still wasn't quite there, I started looking at other things. I looked into a bunch of the remaining psychological explanations but none of them rang true; I wasn't "afraid of success" -- try as I might, this was alien to me, and I've been happily successful at a lot of things -- and I wasn't "afraid of failure" anymore either. Not "afraid of change" -- my god, I LOVE change and purposely try to put more unpredictable things in my life. It seemed to me that I would look for excuses to make a day a "write-off" and I couldn't figure out why. It seemed it was partly because I was always tired. So I changed my diet back to what had always given me the highest energy. That just made me feel better but I was still a little sleepy all day, and I still couldn't get around to doing certain things. I've always gotten as much sleep as I've wanted -- no alarm clock -- so it wasn't lack of sleep. My internal clock is naturally nocturnal so I tried endulging that for a while, but I had the same problems without feeling sleepy. I have been depressed before, so I knew it wasn't depression. My life is pretty stress-free, so I knew it wasn't that. Then I had a three-day bout of anhedonia, which is always a baffling feeling -- it's completely different than depression for me. When I'm depressed, I can sometimes cheer myself up by thinking of things I want to do. When I'm anhedonic, I don't feel sad or anything, I just don't want to do anything and I can't figure out why. I can't feel excitement or anticipation at all. It's really more awful than depression for me; I have no appetite, and I wish very badly to want to do something so the awful boredom would go away, but I can't. I usually end up doing chores, ironically, just to pass the time; normally, when I have a hierarchy of "wants" I will do other things instead of chores, but when that hierarchy collapses it's as good as anything else. That realization hammered home to me that it was really a chemical problem, not just me trying to get out of doing things -- and I don't have a job or anything and just wanted to want to read or craft, so I don't have anything to "get out of" doing. I looked anhedonia up but didn't find anything helpful except that it's dopamine-related. Exercising was one of the few suggestions but it didn't work; I seem to be one of the rare people for whom exercising is a pretty neutral experience: I'll do it, but don't get much of a mood spike. When the anhedondia passed, I looked at the activities I was avoiding, and it was ones that couldn't be completed quickly. I thought this was the effort thing again, that I was just undisciplined, but then I realized I couldn't even bring myself to do leisure activities that required time-investment; I would just feel this gut reluctance. For example, it had gotten difficult for me to read, or play a video game, or watch a movie or TV show because I am constantly assailed by the urge to go "do something else" -- I just didn't know what. I felt a bit lost for ideas. Then I had one hellish day where, when I would get that urge, I would ask myself, "What could I go do? Alright, I could go do X. Will that make me feel better?" and just imagining doing that activity would make me want to go do something else already. I realized it's always the case that when I switch to doing something else, it's not because I want to do that thing in particular, but I just want to do something different. I told my husband I felt like I was going crazy. I tried to sleep but couldn't for several hours because my mind just goes all over the place. Saying "I feel like I'm going crazy" made me consider that I might be manic, so I at least stopped to consider it; I know a handful of people who suffer from mania, have witnessed it, and read a lot about it while caring for them. But I didn't feel how they said they feel, and I didn't have the physiological reactions like heart pounding and all that: most importantly, I felt calm, and thoroughly unexcited. I felt hyper-restless and like nothing would satisfy me. I looked up ADD and read that's sometimes dopamine-related. Hm, I thought. So I looked at AskMeFi threads about ADD, came across a recommendation for Delivered from Distraction, and so much of it described me, plus behaviors I had painstakingly trained myself out of for the past several years. One thing that stood out to me, and which I'd never considered before, is that dopamine plays a role in motivation, which might explain why I would just have these "write-off" days even if I was trying to get myself to do activities I enjoy doing. The only oddity was that ADD people often have trouble organizing things, but one of my ways to ease myself into actually doing stuff was by working so hard on organizing them so I'd have no excuse. I also liked organizing because it felt like I got to use multiple parts of my brain at once, like breaking things down and analyzing them and reordering them, all really fast. Organization only appealed to me because it was so quick for me and used enough of my brain that it could temporarily hold my attention. I also realized I had already implemented a lot of the ideas in the book. For example, I realized years ago that I need variety in my activities, so I would set timers and let myself switch afterward... it had just gotten to the point where I would be in agony for the duration of the timer, and no time adjustments seemed to help. I'd reread the same sentence or paragraph or page of a book for a full hour. It was getting really bad. I'd also done things like try banning myself from the internet, since I could get caught up hopping from page to page for hours. It kept me from wasting time on the internet but I still couldn't read books any better. I'd force myself to leave the house by having my husband drop me off at places and pick me up at the end of the day. I would be able to sit down and read for brief periods -- fifteen minutes, with frequent interruptions -- interspersed with hours of walking. I would walk six miles a day from restlessness just to get a few moments of reading time. I realized that when I could briefly focus I was at coffee shops and drinking tea... which has caffeine... which is a stimulant... which is prescribed for ADD. Caffeine wasn't entirely doing the trick, though, and adding more made me jittery. I didn't know if a different stimulant would do the same thing, but I figured that's what psychiatrists are for. The upside about things like Adderall was that it would be out of my system in a day if it made me feel bad. I decided I had possibly exhausted my options for things I could do on my own; I couldn't seem to break down this basic unwillingness to do things into any more parts to analyze -- it had become atomic, no pun intended. So I decided to see a psychiatrist and just see what he thought. I told him everything above. I got lucky -- I know from friends that most people don't find a great psychiatrist on their first try -- and he made me feel very comfortable. He thought I definitely had ADD, no doubts whatsoever. He gave me a prescription for Adderall. I only take 5mg of the extended release per day -- the lowest dose -- and it makes a subtle, but HUGE difference. I don't feel like I'm "on" anything, but I am no longer reluctant to do things. The first day I took it, I brought along a book about Hegel because it was dense and full of nuanced arguments, and I had tried and failed to read it multiple times for the past year. I also brought along other books because I figured I would do my normal jumping around from book to book without ever finishing anything. I sat there and read the Hegel book, and nothing else, for the entire day, and joyfully took notes. When I would get a good idea or thought, I could write myself a note and get back to the book -- before, I'd developed the habit of writing those things down because I'd forget them when my brain pings around, but once I'd write it down I would get distracted by the next thing instead of being able to refocus on the activity I'd just come from. I realized I didn't want to compulsively check my phone like I usually do -- I could send myself an e-mail note without checking my e-mail and then checking ten other things, holy shit -- and when I'd glance at the time two hours would have passed instead of ten minutes. I did not roam for miles: I sat in one place, took a lunch break, then sat in another place. Also, something odd that hadn't occurred to me before the Adderall: before, if I was the SLIGHTEST bit hungry or just BARELY had to use the bathroom or was sleepy -- which was constantly -- I could think of nothing else. It was like the stimulus just used up all the attention I had, and if I tried to focus on something else, it would ping right back. Now I don't have to run and grab snacks all the time, or run to the bathroom twice an hour, and if I feel a little tired, I don't feel sleepy. I used to wonder if I was just doing those things or paying attention to those things because I was so lazy, or something. And then, I didn't actually take a lunch break until a few hours after I was sort of hungry because "I want to finish this first." I honestly can't remember the last time I felt that way. Then the weekend came. I didn't feel reluctant to run errands, and I got them all done early. I actually wanted to do more stuff but I ran out of things to do, so I got myself to go home by reminding me that there were projects there to work on. All those to-do lists I'd gotten so good at making are getting knocked out now. I don't feel like I have more energy as much as more willingness: I don't feel wound up; I actually feel calmer, like my thoughts won't fly away at any moment. No jitteriness or side effects. I've also noticed that I don't reload web pages compulsively like I used to; I look at my normal sites and then get up and go do something. The other day I noticed this change and asked myself if I wanted to reload something, but the idea seemed pointless and boring compared to doing something else -- and the activity I was going to go do would take a few hours. It's like now that attention and willingness isn't an issue, I don't just choose things that are fast regardless of whether they'll actually make me happy or not. On top of that, a basic level of excitement is back. Before, even when I was happy my emotions were a little flat, but I was okay with that because I couldn't seem to get sad about much either, and on the whole I felt decent. I have noticed that sad things are a tiny bit more sad to me now, but nothing threatening and I prefer it to feeling a bit empty; it had dulled my appreciation for art and stories and I didn't like that. And -- this was a big answer to the "now versus later" problem for me -- I am always looking for things I can do right now. I actually want to sign up for the class before I already know everything about it, I actually want to work on XYZ part of a project because I have the stuff for it, even though it might be a little easier if I did that part after a different part. My brain seems to say "things are here, I will do something with them" much more. Also, things that involve collaborating with other people I would tend to avoid in the past; I would feel like, "yeah, but to do this I'd have to go talk to them, and then wait, and then we'd have to hash things out, and then maybe we won't get along, and... oh fuck it, it's just easier not to." But now I just feel like "eh, this is worth a shot." It's the weirdest thing, but it made me realize something: I feel like my low dopamine sapped my willingness to do things, and my conscious brain was just rationalizing it after the fact. So talk to a psychiatrist. It might be ADD or OCD or other possibilities, but tell him what your problem is and what you've tried to do to manage it and you will figure it out eventually. And keep examining your behavior; while I think it might have been better if I had just gone to a psychiatrist sooner, the benefits of having all these behavioral changes in place have been great. I feel like I put the last piece in the puzzle, whereas if I had gone into it without those changes, I could be taking Adderall and wondering if it really works because I still can't get myself to do things where the problem is not only ADD, but fear of failure, or lack of organization, etc. I might have unnecessarily upped my dosage, or gotten discouraged and went off it, beat myself up, etc. But approach the whole thing like you WILL figure it out, and don't feel ashamed while you work it all out. posted by Nattie at 1:15 PM on March 28, 2010 [19 favorites] What about if your reset period was now a full day, but an hour or a time of day (morning, noon, evening), so you can still get that refreshing feeling of "starting anew" but without having to write off an entire 24-hour period? posted by Pomo at 3:48 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite] * NOT a full day « Older I want to know how have people... \| Can a guitar amplifier ruin ev... Newer » This thread is closed to new comments.	http://ask.metafilter.com/149634/Life-starts-now	<urn:uuid:08b321e2-89d0-4d7e-bb32-6d2dc19719de>	en	0.983589	0.076257
Image 1 of The Kentucky tribune, June 18, 1852 Part of The Kentucky tribune item \| thumbnails \| details \| text \| pdf nnir TT71 JlALiTJl $oo ftA Weekly ""MvTTu Mat .v.wi.u. 11 M CM Whig" Chronicler of the Times, the P5.J FeTTe'aT I Au'lTwuT PUl L " J 8, adva.vckT i TOGETHER!" DANVILLE, KY., FRIDAY MORKIKG, JUNE VOL. IX NO. 45. PUBLISHERS., the Ccuntry WHOLE SO. 1853. 4G2. J. Bl CD40C. TBM. either tha Marshal of said town, or hi shall be entitled to receive oj cenis ior ; II. r.. Hall. Glavow. deputy, the night watch, or the keeper of each and every ("ay aiy tree f erson ' may be kept in ihe said Jail under or fur ntrnii said cemetery. Tt - ...nil AtA.r. ttiirT Comer Ualri anJ SlitJi Streets; I "".ii lll BfllluuiuiJ r sue .or y.cnsiNfl, AT TIIK Sec 15. Each and every person ri- a violation of any of the ordiuauce of Mais, But it is especially so thai ia improper. OF THE oincc os TKitwrrmtT, north of Cheapness, with a very large class of t ding or driving a horse beast within the said town. . before chi dren. And here parents, as . DANVILLE, KY. TOWN OF DANVILLE. Sec. 26. Every fr?o p?isn foini limits of said town as fast as in a gtllop, BY nre olhers....... i often in fault. Chil- 'r V n artip u rr l h a il PPK V ft rPfl said town,' til f iMnrtHiN V 11 An II A I.I. r. riEaA. . , dren have as many ears a3 grown per- - lie it ordained by the Board of Trus- except in case of necessity, or who shall giiliy of being drunk wiihin BLEDSOE t A TT St SUN. pcnnr .1 n.iriicular anent to. i son Inr sh or wheel car- or who shall be guilty of profane cursing . o " lists, X. TtwrwTTJlfl SOns, and they arc generally more atten tees of the Town ot IinviUe, as ride or driva a horso be?t periorm a service, cutii rnrciy cmaiuu; turn i iihil ib cnni lwfiro them. What riage upon any cf iho rido walks in said or swearing . therein, shaii for each of-- i follows: EDITORS AND rRorRlETOKS. s 1: 21 ii k, 111 speaking of what ihey have bought, or biing Hrutik, or rrr.far.H cursing very apt to repeat Sec. 1. If any free person shall shoot town, chc.ll. for each offence, ba fined fence of or good: they hear they arc had done, of the good quality -not less than Two nor more than Five or swearing, bj fin! Tvo dollars. load14 . . J3 'and as they have not discretion anu any gun, pistol, cr other instrument OO low price Sec. 27. Ths Marshal of said town is M,t?,'. Ver annum, in r Jvmicc, ; :S : : ; $2 SO work t.btained. but on ihe has been secu-at knowledge of the world enough to dis- - ed with powder, within ihe limits of said Dollars. S dire;"tf:d It to take up and sl-i- each nnd kfc.AVES Cincinnati for Frank-- which the one or the other f Sec. 1G. Each anJ every person . 2jS Within i months : : : S guise anything, it is generally found that town, such offender shall ha hned for fort every Sunday, -- T, : 3 00 red. As a general thing, they do not get B vd- everv ho found ruiinin? at larrnn the the peac or quiet of any Two Dollars, . nrr7 end. of tlic year, : : "At the offeiici not less than 'children and fools speak tho truth. vitiiMday for Frankfort nuin,....' r, ,u rtV, 1 any more than they bargain for; and, in a See that little boy's eyes glisten while each Il VI i'Utl .,;!.. OI III J II' 'IIIC, cr lawful assemblage of persons J' I It,'" I. I L'J l.r'a Oreeon for Cifceinnati Terr Taaraday! nor more than Fivo Honors. lew cases, they receive rather less. within said town", shall, for each offence had for cash in han i, end after retaining and f rm.frt y Monday and Friday 1.: r ,.,,;!, I., perAny slave upon EC. 2. gl.CC each be fined not less than Two nor more than 25 centi for each on I fve'ry !:cj r.o so'd. j " it'hree ccpie fr $5.'0, only 1,60 " or in whose pos'j,.gunge you would not wish to have repeat son, within stud town, j. . t.0, " send account U C. r ive .lilUltlUliaiSlJUtlUllllilll, nillkil UIUIU - led. - lie does not fully understand what session any spirituous liquor roay be Twenty Dollars. Any Slave guilty of as a cnir.icnrction fur hij services, thai"! Tribuui insert . " 15.00, .a n I, a I Lp.I 1 uimln IV n y' 01" colore! rir'fnsinn fur lh I?ay to the owner ihrj iiar?e, 11 known,' ' i! ),0 , " 1.35 mean, but he will rerr.ernbe.r. every found, shall receive therefor, a number distui bing a lawful assemb'.ig you !'ift-e, ... , se vices of a dentis', wlio was something , l town shall receive nr.d if not" 1.26 25.1J. iha iaio the Tieas Twenty nwiU uiiti 11 n 111 uu siiangc .r of lashes on his or her back, not exceed- persons within sai more than 29 stripes ot in? town. 1,01) " of a humorist. 50,00, " for each offence not (SaccntoM ta Taylor Ramond.) "fy not cause you to blush by its repetition. ing thirty nine, to be administered by the What do you ask for pulling a tooih.'' Sec 23 The several offence end j eto be given by either the Marshal or his . A gentleman was in the habit of call 'I.3f si a Street, Marshal of said town, at his discretion, JTAypmoi procures "vp he a.'ked of Forceps, cm entering his ofwithput trial. fines mentioned iri the foregoing sections, ing at a neighbor' house, and the lady without trial; -- prodded, bowever, that if deputy, or the night watch, fice. A swollen and inflamed cheek rtUI tM IX tmr DESCXISTlO o Sec 17. No person on Main street in and which may be heieafter imposed ty had always expressed to him great pleasthe said slave produce tho written au... . of tlie Tribune", showed that he stood in need of profes-o- l I.APIFS AXD CrXTT.FVPVM , tve after thority of his or her master, or of the said town, nor on any of ihe cross street virtue of anv ordinance hereafter enac-- ! ure from his calls. One day, just o.ley's", or j s';0--- .tUr GraUm'i, ted, shall be tried and iii.licied either be Furnishing and Fancy Goods, she had expressed to him, as usual, her person rightfully controlling hint or her there of between Broa Iway and Wa!nt:i. fore the Police. Fifty cents. was replied. Judpe of the town of DanitarUia' Magazine, oue ytrft tor 4. .rreara-io- a happiness from his visit, her little by en- at the time, authorizing the said slave to shall Lu:ld or cause to be built a cellar door ville, or discontinued until all Justice ofihe Peace for ih? Shirts, Hosiery, Underwear, Glove J 5j-.Never gave but a quarter, caid the some r. The gentleman took have tho aid liquors, then the said slave above the iVvsl of the pavement where the the Cravat-- , Scarf? Handkerchiefs, are pSii cept at the option of sufferer, in as decided voice as'piin would tered his room. and asked, the same is erected, and fin each offence County of Boyle, and where by the profto. knee, him on shall not bo punished. penders Trmfc,; allow him to assume. visions of any of the foregoing section or Bags '.Are you .not Jjlad, to see me, George?"' Sec. 3. Any free person who shall oe ho or she or ihey shall be fined not less by tho provisions of iny section of an v. Cane, Perfumery, e. My charge is fifty cents, replied the AlSvtRTISlMi". j "No, sir?'' replied the Day. guilty of hindering, delaying or disturb- than Two nor more than bit) lor every ordinance enacted, a fine of as VlnrhesrS IfPatent Linen and Muslin Skirta , operator, in quite as decided a manner. jar , "Why not. my Utile man" he contin- ing the night watch of said town, or the week the same may hi to re- grtat a sumhereafter of 12 lines or W, trvl inr-t. e 00 a3 Twenty dollira. (c any Uan t pay so mucn. is e- - ued, Marshal thereof, or his deputy, in ihe main. on. therein specified may be inliicied, Yon have only to put on 'o'ir S5jnouga. Sec 1C !n evey dwelling in saiJ the Marshal 'Because mother don't want you to due discharge of his duty", cr counselling Eaca aJJitional insertion, ' J irons and it's out in three seconds. Wi&h or iher offi-- er executing f..t ... I Procession Notice ich, 0(1 come,, said George. or advising others to do so, shall for each town there shall bo kept two Fire Buckets tho warrants, s',vl at the instance of ihe 1 had as much as 1 could do at pulling tines, or less.torS mcr.t'.., forli lines, or les, for 6 inontlis. And Dealer In "Indeed? how do you know that offence be fined in a sum not less ihan and if there are more than 3 persons in defendant, Vcr l i or JefenJanis, summon and teeth at a quarter a piece. Come now, 1 0 0(i George!" Five Dollars, not more than Twenty the lamilv. lor eacb live persons more emuar i.el a j :ry to appear at the time and f" 12 Paints OilS. sind Window Glass; For 12 lit- - or 50 00 friend, money is money these times. - - IO .nnntilS. than the first, one in addition. Each .v Here the mother was crimson, and Dollars. dace set fur trial. aid by whom the JIain Street, opposite the Daak, apothecary fUl'f acolumn for 12 .nonlh-- . or c1ma fr Don't you never pull teeth for a quarter! looked daggers at ihe liule son. But he Sec 4. Each and every person guil-t- v store house, grocery and than Two, shop charg-- shell be tried. And when any vY:osc Sometimes, revlied the dentist, and momim, or shall krep not less saw nothing, and therefore replied, of a riot, or breach of the peace, fine shall be imposed ixz aforesaid, ii shall may 3v, ' j larterof a column for 12 month or acojniijin sense of the ridiculous love for a pracii- "Because she said, yesierday, that she guilty of using any violent, abusive, and each Tavern not le:s than Fivs. Ar.d te tor 3 1110 ut ui. Vo diiiy of ihe Police Judge or Justice - j cal joke had become excited. charwished old bore would not call here menacing language towards another, or each person offending herein shall be Advertisement of a persona l character rendering juJgm?nt, 10 issue a capin 'Then you'll pull mine for that price,' again." that .! double. shall make an indecent or rude exposure fined not less than Five dollars nor more 00 gajj office, $1 for ihe amount of said fine and paijent. A una no ill? a ran di.late for any Msave'. 1 00 That was enough. The gentleman's of his person within the limits of said than Ten dollars, annual hj. The owner fro fine, j 0 yes, if you wish trie to do so,' was hat was soon in requisition, ad he left,' Con tiuuiiipam' until the elation, DA.WILI.E, KY. of said house shall be required to fur- cosi, and the defendant or defendants town, or shMl therein be guilty of any nceineiii Kee? to be paid in advs WitL attend to ill Auuou answered. t. them nish sail buckets; providtd, however, therein, may, if he or ihey rhooses, relioyl and the adjoinis iou'cllea l)jwn sat the patient, and the dentist with that impression that "great ii truth , other conduct, action or thing which that no person shall be required to fur- plevy the same for three rnunths by exeJOU WOltK. and it will prevail." apriiy,'52tf any citizen of said shall or may disturb was soon cutting away at his gutr.s in the cuting a bond payable u ihe Trustees of Another liule child, looking sharply in town in the quiet and peaceable pursuit nish more than four bucket?. Cook niiliobi Vt' rt.i.g, of coolest and niest deliberate way imaginarUin ti& I sai l town ihe town of Danville, fir ihe amount of Sec 19. No person wiihin the face of it visitor, and being fcsfced of his or her business, lawful recreation eery description, nuch r.s: said fine and costs, with good security, ble. ATTOKMES AT LAW, rout. or pleasure, shall be fined any sum noi shall erect or cause to be erected a Privy bearing interest from date, which shall My gracious! exdaimcd the fufTerer, what she meant by it, replied, TOs'TI B'i rMrm.i:T5, ha J a less than Two Dollars, nor more than wiihin 3J feet of anv street in sail town, "I wanted to see whether you VAI.C as soon ns the guti cutting operation was CtaCCLARS, inLLconthiur to Practice Lawia partpo and eery or.c so offending shall bo fined be taken by tho Marshal or other officer drop in your eyes; I heard mother say Twenty Dollars. hoiixk urti.s, ship in Boyle and adjoining counties. , fine in hi having ihe said capias over. ?'ijt you do hurt mo dreadfully. you had frequently." slave guilty not less than 55, nor more ihan $20. And hands, and upon which, pro Sec. 5 Each and every B41.I- - TICK'Tli. The dentist novV .nlied a pair of opposita tha Triban when due.Ta I OiHcoon Third-stree- t, .. BLANKS, I'.T" ire. every person now having such privy on nrvm. Ahoy onco asked one of his father's, cf e:ih'er of ihe forgegoing offences, enunntin j Orlice. '. "'n2.,43 may issue, if not paid. And if iho defento the cifiending tooih, end gave il a witii uet nefS lid dipat'-guests who lived next doer to him; and merated in Section 4, shall receive on his his premises within ihe prohibited dis- dant shall fail 10 pay. or replevy the same wrench which fairlv brought the Valient when he heard lus name, he asked if hs Tribune Oilier. i.s a tr:a'. SPEaSD S. PRY, 39 lashes, to tance, who sha'I not remove the same an or her back not more than above, it shall then be the duly of the to his eel. was not a fool M said wiihin GO days after the publication of : h it out, doctor!' was eagerly nsked. "No, my little friend," replied the be administered by the rindirshal oftrial. ihis ordinance in the 'Kentucky Tribune,' officer having said capias pro fine 10 con. i 0 without his discretion, j vey and safely put in tho watch-hous- e the V V ' ILL practice in the Coarts of BWjTe Notyet, coolly replied the dentist, guest, "ho is not a fool, but a very sensi- town, at and the adjoining counties. Any Anv free person who shall shall, for each week, the same may be the defendart there to bo safely kept unw Siic A make anothei Sit down ngsin, and I' confided to him, still be promptly attend-e- d ble man. But why did you ask that within the limits of said town, sell any suffered to remain, be lined not "ess than out niiLDiiooD. t0- til a period of time sh i'l expire which, at itrialf Feb 27. '521; nucs,ti(nl" sort of spirituous liquors in a quantity Five, nor more than Ten Dollars. tv ;fo r. So the man 5!tt down once more, and B cause." replied the boy, "inoiher Sec 2J. Any free person guilty of ihe rate ot Two dollars per day. will pay iV.e forceps were sgain applied. There said, the other day. that you were next less than three gallons at any one lime, injuring or defacing any pump within offand discharge the said fine and costs.. .1-- . : without first obtaining a licence from ihe T yt ?we-t- to Wen By order of the Board of Trustees, (was cn.uhor severe rciich: but the tooth Attorney at Law, 1'utlieVoft winoV gentle ewc'.l door to a fool, and 1 wanted to know who proper authorities to do so, shall for each said town, or property belonging to said rcfu.'-eCLIFTON RODES, Cn';i. to EW ORLEAX .LA.;. And tliiuk we lieartlie n.w-itown, or the Trustees thereof, shall be lived next door to you." offence be fined not less than Ten Dolj V. H. Smith, Sec. '.Mercy on uo. doctor? Is thVs the rvay (iur cliilcliood loved to well; Will attend with, strict, fidelity to all bnsinsta fined not less than Two nor more than lars nor more than Fifty Dollars. you pull teeih? screamed the patient, as T faz- - O'lt 011 entrusted to hi cart, ., The Natural Boundarv of the UniSES. 7, Each and every person guil- Twenty Dollars. Any slavo guilty of ,Ani the loundleMs lirU!f of sir, he seized the detitist's hand with a ner- 0OA Dutchman relating hi. troubles. Refer Jo Ecru ANonsoif, Daa rills, Ky. wi.-either of sai l offences shall be whipped jftnd fiel ajrain our Loliood' ted Statks, A story in print wants the ty of keeping a Tippling Housa within n23, 1850 f une nigra ven 1 comes noma 1 jVou PriP- To roam ange: there. shall for each and by the Marshal or his deputy, or night-watc- says: humor ol and j 'It's the way I pull tce:;i for a qtiartpr,' manner, tone y'et, and lifelikeof injustice ihe limits of said town, same may be so finds te door vasht sleep, and all the F. T. FOX. in any number of lashes in hi3 at the rit-TI.Tf:.r many (3re?m cf irladnetn every 21 hours thai the J. B. .YACGHA j replied the demist, with a twinkle in his ihe narrator, neighbors bunkin9 vos in mine hock T5ut flinparuund the punt to Lieutenant M. we Venture to publish fined not less than Ten Dollars, discretion, not exceeding thirty-ninFOX ryes, nhich the other, even in his pain, that which he told at the 'dinner of tVie 11 ii 11 1. And from tin' tomb of ferling Each arid every person suf- patch. I goes cut and takes a hock and Sec nor more tnan une tiun ireu ionurs . did iuit fail to see. OIJ tliouf M come :l.roicinj filth to breaks it over every rail's pack in te Atloftfr3 li at LaW Chamber ofCommerce. and every person who sha'I, within th3 fering or permitting any trash or Tbe torms ( loved fo cVariy Ufor fifty cents, then,' quickTull mine in fielt, and ley runs dur tifil as to te verv bo and remain upon tho wiih-i- n of"Soon after Teai was annexed, an limits of said town, in any house or In the liappy cajsnowgoje. ii.i 1 i attend w,to all business k. ly returned the wriihing victim. fence vo alter tcm. T717"1LT. sntrusted ! The lmitilul nd lovely, ficer named Boyle', commanding an any enclosed grounds of said town, front of their house, or who shail suffer TIihi's i!.e way 's Hone,' aid Forceps, Vr in the Lincoln Circuit and Cea-t- y o to oik. upon. in tlVa Mediterranean, sell any spirituous liquors to any person any boxes, wood, barrels or other thing vessel Courts. after, as. with a dexterous moa mum-rjn6,'51 . touched at Gibralter and was invited to in quantity less than 3 gallons, at any lo remain thereon, shall, for every 24 Tboe Iripl.t und penile inau'enp, tion of his practiced hand he removed, V1oe ,Ted to Termed for Llis, dine with S oflotd, commander of an one tirne, without a license to do so, hours he or t'icy may suffer or permit the DR. T. DOSEkiiV, wiih comparatively p'iuht pain, the tooth Too plonous and '00 heavenly English vessel at that place.. When din- from the lawful authorities, shall be held same to remain, be fine ! not less than 10,000 pounds Wanted at the Fur meli a world as tliis! from its socket, end held it up 10 the T 1 AVlNfJ permanently settled1 in Danville! Two nor more than Five Dollars. This ner was over and the wine flowed freely, and decreed guilty of keeping a Tippling respectfully tenders his services to the Whoseiark oft (yeFFeemcd swimming patient's view. Tribune Printing Office! ordinance shall take effect 3J days after citizens of Danville and the surrounding counIn a tea of liquid lilit; the sul ject of the annexa. ion was intro- House. , T.ia half I !!ar wu piil.ailtlia man duced. try in the various branches of hi profession. the 'And whose lo(ke cf gold were rtrcamicg Sec o. A slave guilty of ihe offence publication thereof in free Tribune. not l7"OF"r'ICE en Main street, immediately departed wnh a drawing perception in his O'er brows runny bright. negro, at the highe? market prire in over Sec 22. If any And so,' says Spofiord, I see you of as sei forth, in section 7, shall bo whipped the Pot Office, mind, that cheap things are, sometimes, anv fiuar.tiiv of LLEAX LiV tbe briglitert buds f summer feb 13, '52 tf the United States have annexed Texas.' on his, bare back by tho Marshal of said this lime a citizen of the town of Dan- LIXEX A.VD COTTON RAGS that mav dearet-- a man can buy. stun; the 18;h day of They have fallen frcm tle Yes, we have,' said Boyle. be brought us. fiags will also bo received in town, 39 stripes, well laid on, without ville, (that is, on Friday, the Yet oli. it ie a lovely deata June, 182.) shall remove to said town, paymit of sutscriptionr, or any debts due Well, you are a peculiar people. trial. .IOIl. L. S.TIITI1;. . KING'S El II., mi TWO IX A BED. from earth them! To f!e a fineol this otT.oe. Brlnjr them on. Yes, we do everything in a peculiar &aVdi23?4V Sec 0. Every person guilty of sell- he or she so offending shall pay jnel.p'eaier la ForGood stories arc naw so scarce, none And yet the thought is saddening Danville, may 21, '12 c 5 for each and every day he or she eign pud Cifars, ing or giving spirituous liquurs to 6 miTo'iuuteou suih as'hey, should be lost, and the following, told by way.' may remain in said town. If any free ihform hie eld eastocier..a53 Do you intend to go on annexing?' nor, wiihin said town, without authority And f?el that ell the beautiful Mr. J. II. McYicker, the Yankee comeof said Lexington & Danville Railroad. WOULD now a resident citizen generally, that ha hu oa . Are pacing fat away! 'Certainly. to do so from his parents or guardian, negro, not dian, is among the best we have heard: hand a lar; lot of Pure 9panih ij'iis! r within That the fair ones w hom we love. And when do you intend tostopl shall bo fined not less than Two Dollars, town, shall work for anv person Also, a jocd !?t.of llalf Spa.nSAhj together At a smalt village, not a thousand Grow to each loving breast. said town, he or she so offending shall for Why, when we get the natural nor more than Ten Dollars. Stop! with a gcuera3ortm"e'a't 0 Ch5,'yii Like tendril of the clinging vin'f Tt miles, a number of stages arrived, TVoticc to Contractors. of the test inahty. Cs.l and examias Every person who shall each and every day, or part of a day tha perish where they rest. boundaries of the United States. Sec. 10 Then filled w;i"h "passengers, who were obliged t, Danville. for yourselves. a slave he or she rhay so work, be f,ned not less The natural boundaries of the United sell or give spirituous liquors to proposals for the construction of to stop at a srnill tavern, in which there aPr 23, '52 tf they?' says Spoflord. without the written conseniofhis or her than Fivo nor more ihari Ten Dollars. SEALED will be received as follows: was no great supply of beds. The land Sia:e! and what are hiring, or permit At tne Office in Lexington, from sjt to J3th ctft. r 6Loi'i': The Equator and Aurora borealis,' re- master, or person having at the time the And every free person I812--15- : lord said tna the snoulu be oblige'! to put work for him or of July, for the grading and masonry of 12 right to control said slave, shall be fined ting such free negro to Such a very proud fema'e was Nancy KerdifY; two or three gentlemen (who were, by the plied Boyle. Jjljfij'iag tta,ctst f r4cn I" was slit them, shall for each and every day said miles of the road between Lexington and A very proud female The narrator saiih not whether the not less than Five Dollars, nor more way, nearly all strangers to one another) for 40, EO and. ISO Acre Lend War-ran- t. I I J! With jewels so fine, and her manners so stiff, J necro may work for him or At tho OiTice in Lexington and at the OtT.c All who have Warrants te eel together, and requested they would Matte a,a,Bue ?noea nere. cut tne nearer uo than Tweniy Dollars. girl coildn't much prcider be. A fined not lees than Five nor more than in Dauviih, from the 1st lothe 1 5ih of August, Sec. 11. Every person keeping a will find a ready sale by. eaUin.g Qivms. ancy Kerdi'fT wa adverse to a kiss, ICow Stage coaches are filled with consider 11 a good stopping place, and so partners. ' and bridges of the Dollars. for the grading', masonry, U. Standard. JLand Wai rants always far sa'.'e. But why, nary lover could see; house wiihin the limits ot the town ol Fen all soris olpeojue, and should do we. 5. Each itinerant merchant. remainder of tho road (2-- miles) from Sec. 23. JNO. B. AKIN. But one simple fact will account for all this Danville to which idle, disorderly, noisy be selected wiih care. Everybody seemto D tnville. oT goods, wares, A gal what liked cngens was ehe. Danville, may 7, '52 tf or badly behaved parsons are permitted pedlar and auctioneer within the limiis c, miv be Plans, profiles, speci Mentions, Going to Law. Lawing'3is pretty ed to hesiiate. Mr McVicker, who was merchandise and books, imes one of the passengers, had made tip his well shown up in the following anecdote to resort, or who shall within said town. of the town of Danville, who shall sell at seen at either of tha otlkes within tbe FALL, OH, FALL, specified. tho houses to snooze n nis cnair, or nave a of two Dutchmen, who built and used in or on the grounds attached to mina BT CHARLES MACK AT. public auction or outcry, for any lime less bed 10 himself. He saw ihat his only common a small bridge over a stream, therein, suffer and permit noisy rude or Cw. Ec. Lrx. Jc Dan. R. R. Fall, th. fall, e words of anger. shall boisterous conduct, or language which lhan three months consecutively, Danville, Ky.. May 23, 1652. to get a Led to hi'rnself was by his which ran through their farms. It seems Like the leaves when autumn blows; citizens in pay o per cent, on the amDunt of saes so in the liver, Like the wits and walking up to the register enter- they had a dispute concerning certain re does or may disturb peaceable Marshal for the use of ihe Formerly ot the lIarrod$.hurs Sprias on the snows. Like the moon-iifPUBLIC NOTICE! the quiet pursuit of their lawful business made, to ihe ed his name, and remarked: 'I am will- pairs whicn it required, alter a time. failure to do so, shall be Water Cure, ' ?FaII like seed in barren places, "jVT OT I C E ia hreby givr or pleasure, or shall permit slaves to as town, and on i,,' p7 rr ing to sleep wiih any gentleman, but I One of them declined to bear any portion iu the sea; removed to ysTs;:,A,yoere he hae Fall like lyj en, that a meeting of guilty ot fined an amount equal to said 5 per cent, tt HAS arrangemeats to treat Patient eato perish. have ihe king3 'evil, and it is contagious.' ol the expenses necessary to ihe pur. semble therein shall be deemed Idle words tho Stockholders of the Lexington and Dan and an additional sum of Ten Dollars. and for each . ,, Lost between my tiVe fad me. The King's evil!' said every one; and chato of two or three new planks. ri keeping a disorderly house gFC 24. The manager of each and ville Railroad Company will bo held at the Ot ring tho season. ihe landlord looking thunderstiuck, re nally, t'.Ve aggrieved party went to the offence and for every 24 hours ihat the every Circus, and each and every Mena fire of the Company, IN DANVILLE, en Every variety of Bath may be had But, ye words of loving kindness, Tufsday. June 52., Ie52, at 2 o'clock,.?.- Fall like grateful sumVAer tain; marked, as he eyed Maj rather closely, neighboring lawyer, and placing ten dol- same may be kept or permitted, the own gerie exhibited wiihin the limiis of the to take into consideration the propoi:ioa of IL, Necessary to a full and thrgh course ef the Like Hi e heat on frozen waters. Hydropathic treatment., hand, 'I'll give you all dish er or keeper thereof for tho time, shall be own of Danville, shall, before exhibiting Board to extend this Road from Danville to the . 'I'll see, sir, what I can do for you by lars in his finej not less than Five Dollars, nor Like sweet music heard in pain; Dollabs per week, yourself.' In a short tme M?.3 was en moneys, if you. will make Hans do jus ihe Marshal ot ibe said Tennessee line, in the direction of McMinn weekly. Patients will .ha Kqnired 9 jpayabla the same, pay to Like the dew 011 openin g rotes, n4 two, more than Twcniv Dollars ville, anJ the whole subject of extension, and sconced in the landlord's bed, who slept lice mil te pnge. sums, viz: bach Uir Like the acorn from the tree, cotton sheets, one caarse, liaea sneet, to take definite aud final action, so far as this coarse Sec. 12. Anv slave found boistering town the following How much will it cost to repair the of affection, on the floor 10 accommodate strangers Fall, ye accents Night Watch shall cus the sum ol 1 wenty-- r ivc dollars, and f'nmiKinv is concerned A full attendance two heavy comforts, two blankete, end sis Fruitful to my love and me. towels. In the morning, while all were pieparing bridge?' asked the honest Counsellor of In KAid town after the is dlred. his usual round 5n the each Menagerie ihe sum of len dollars anj representationthe Co.'rd of Directors, Danville, may 4, '53 Ct have commenced r for breakfast, a accostod the determined litigant. ly order of pass irom nis or for every day the same may be exhibited. Well, den, hot more ash five tollar,' niht limp, not havinc a We cut the following advertisement the comedian with, 'Pray, sir, what is the BALEOl K, Vres I Anrl nn fnilure to nav. the same mav be! her master for that occasions shall be . i.,.r..-Office L.& D. R. R. Co., .i, from the Herald: i.. complaint of which you spoke last night?' replied the Dutchman. j. Denville, May 2S 1552. the said Watch with hot Lost on Wedhesday last a brindle pup Very well. said the lawyer, pocket punished by he nature! drawled out Mac, a litI Police Judge, or any. Justice of the Peace Fresh Heats at the Market Hoaie siripes. iih a switch tail belonging to I'ai- - tle nonplussed for an answer. ing ons of the notes and giving him the more tnan and, further, the MarKLtiVLARLYtt Sec 13 Each free person gunty ci of Boyle county, payment is made as lick McMeil got his ears slit is net stated. Yes sir; I never head of such a dis- other, 'take this and go and get the bridge shall, unless explo- - shall Office Lex. & Dan. Railroad Co., repaired; it is the best course you can firing off crackers, rockets or other ease before. for subecribej rrsp?ctfjUy an a eu aces to above prohibit such exhibitions, and rpIIE 1IAMILLE, SU 22, 12. sive mixtures or missiles wiihin the limX ths citizeusof Danville aad vicinity, that When you go 'out to drown yourself, 'Why, said Mac; brightening tip, 1 take. may summon to his aid the its of aid town, shall be lined not less that purpose, n the agreeable to the wishes and solicitations of sevthat a call be rod Yess said the Dutchman, slowly, 4y-- a always pull off your clothes, they may fit thought every one knew. It is a disease snows, ORDERED, lor 10 per rent, of tiie sub- eral families, lie will hereafter regularly supply Two Dollars nor more than power of the town. All other said dat ish more belter as to quarrel mil less than of long standing. Its first appearance your wife's second hu&band. town, aiid concerts within by the 1st of ecery be rietTy eaJ deta-rtfeTen Dollars. Each parent giving leave shall nav a Talt of Ten dollars, when the scriptions, to sumpaid 5e paU quarterlyJuly nest, this marketwith in AmcricaVas during the Revolutionary Hans.' to . nniu.i.ieand for that Morning, to, or knowingly permitting a child or like the War, when it took off some of ihe best As he went along home, he shook hi Why are Mrs. Ellis writings thereto is fifty cents, whole subscription is paid payable to C.Koem, I rcsh Dccf, Murton, Slc. do so, snail bo lined in tne urice of admission Col- muddy condition of streets? Because they men our country contained. At the bat- head inquiringly, as if unable, after all servant to when the price of ad- - Tren,urer , at Danville, or P. E. tisr.a. And every slave guilty mere-o- f and Five Dollars, Having been enjsfed is the business ia ether ' ' tend to elevate female habits. tle of New t)rleans it amounted to art ep- to see how ho gained anything by going like sum. cents. mission thereto is twenty-liv- e J. BAKCOF17, Prcs't. marVetf he thinks he will be able te please a I) shall receive not more than 39 lashes idemic; and since the arrival of Kossuth 10 law. upon an sumscoiiectea uy me Sec. 25 who may patroni: bim, both with the quality mav 2, '52 td night watbh, without trial, and at by the A Dutchman remarked the other day in this country it has broken out afresh in of h: Meats nd his style of bnlcherin j. )J Marshal for finest and taxes on shows con-- j Lexintoii Observer and Statemnan copy . An Irish Joke. A shoemaker with nis discretion. will sell asfew as it is possible for him to do," that he 'cood write as well with a pig pen many places. Ski'-Lig- ht and will treat all alike, withoqt shewing iela- Sec. 14. 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Click here for IRC chat then type /join FotGN Intayazz 2/4/2014 8:00 PM Aluatris 2/1/2014 1:02 AM Test!? I'm so not prepared... Smudge 1/31/2014 5:18 AM Hi there! Old_Swamper 1/30/2014 8:20 PM Intayazz 1/29/2014 10:13 PM taps the mic Test, test zoltando 12/25/2013 7:32 PM Merry Christmas! Lanaliathe 12/25/2013 11:44 AM Merry Christmas everyone! hugs all round Aluatris 12/21/2013 10:30 PM zoltando 11/29/2013 2:29 PM I hope everyone had a happy turkey day Sunky 11/23/2013 2:40 PM Intayazz 11/23/2013 8:39 AM Aluatris 11/22/2013 8:14 PM Dearly beloved, Ready your dancing shoes... Jaggie 11/20/2013 5:58 AM Lanaliathe 11/18/2013 11:49 AM zoltando 11/16/2013 3:51 AM It works by magic jazzhands Lanaliathe 11/15/2013 5:09 PM Nklos 11/12/2013 7:26 PM Update 20. Sunky 11/10/2013 5:05 AM Rawr! Jaggie 11/7/2013 9:44 PM And now it is sleep time. good night :) Jaggie 11/7/2013 7:45 PM I'm on DDO! Forums : Official Open ROLE-PLAY Forum > Exploratory Forces 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11Next Archie (Member) 5/14/2011 12:37 AM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces GP User: Slawler Posts: 223 After a night of pacing, worrying about Shurjra's failure to return earlier that evening, Arachan leaves his fortress to take a walk through the nearby woods. When he leaves the area protected by enchantments, he senses an odd, undead presence. Slowing his pace and tightening his grip on his staff, he looks around the fringes of the forest before entering. He goes not twenty feet before a ghoul drops from a tree and onto his back. Five more ghouls, and two wight-priests, drop down from more trees nearby. Arachan smirks slightly, "What fool would think to send such weak undead after a Necromancer?" The ghoul on his back has begun to bite him, and rips out small chunks of his flesh, but Arachan pays him no mind. Speaking several words of power, Arachan casts Undeath to Death, and the ghouls crumble to dust around him. The first wight-priest raises his focus and speaks a prayer to the Devourer, casting Searing Light, but before it can hit Arachan, it rebounds apon the priest, outlining it in a halo of light before it is destroyed.. Arachan turns to face the remaining priest, and taps his staff to the ground. A bolt of lightning leaps from the head of the staff, and the wight is destroyed. Arachan then turns around, headed back to the fortress, where he can send messages to his children and grandchildren, and warn them of the potential threat. Daisliv exits the Catacombs, having dealt with an infestation of undead there. Upon doing so, he finds that he is surrounded by yet more undead, blocking him into the doorway. "They must have found a different way out, and came to head me off." Before he is able to react, the two ghouls nearest to him grab at his feet, trying to pull him to the ground where they can bight him to death. Daisliv feels the chill of their undead hands through his robes, but, having lived with a lich, they are of little bother to him. He kicks one in the face, sending it sprawling, but the wight and the other ghoul have been advancing, while the ghoul left on his other leg is now trying to climb up the side of Daisliv's body. Temporarily overwhelmed, he retreats into the doorway, where the sounds of battle have begun to attract priests of the Flame. Seizing the head of the ghoul climbing on him, he speaks a word and casts Chill Touch, impressing upon it that he is powerful enough not to be bothered. As it turns to flee, it, and the other undead, are cut down by beams of light from the hands of the Flame priests. He gives them a curt nod before activating a pendant keyed to a teleportation circle in his father's keep. As the cleric of the Host leaves the home of one of his parishioners, he senses a faint aura of undeath. Murmuring a prayer to Dol Dorn, he pulls his longsword from its sheathe and places his back to a wall, that none might come behind him. A trio of ghouls, led by a wight, comes scampering out of the alley, ignoring the common people, though sending them into a panic, and heading directly for Starach. Starach concentrates on finding the power of the Host, then channels it through his body, destroying two of the ghouls, but having no effect on the others. He speaks another prayer, feeling the strength of the Host that is leant to him, and brings down his blade upon the head of the remaining ghoul, cleaving it from head to navel. It lays nearly in two pieces before crumbling into dust. He turns to make a similar attack on the wight, but is forced instead to block its ferocious attack at his midsection. Starach strikes the wight in the head with the flat of his blade, knocking it over, then speaks a final prayer and extends his hand, casting Searing Light. The wight has joined its fellows in destruction. He frowns at the piles of dust, now beginning to blow away, and pronounces, "From dust they are, and to dust they shall return." Thinking that his father will be interested in the undead in the city, he speaks his Word of Recall and is behind the alter in the temple to the Sovereign Host in his father's fortress. Ohtar is on patrol in the marketplace when the Banelord's attack finds him. He appears signifigantly older than he did even a few days ago, as if the years of his life are quickly catching up with him. When he reaches a narrow street, ghouls burst out of an alley in front of him. He turns to flee, but finds himself face-to-face with a wight. The wight knocks him over before he can remove the shield with the characteristic emblem of the marketplace on it from his back, trapping it under his weight. The wight goes for his throat, but narrowly misses and is turned away by the mail covering the lower parts of Ohtar's neck. Ohtar desparately draws the shortsword from its sheate at his waist, being unable to reach the hilt of his hand-and-a-half, its baldric having been knocked askew in the fall. He tries to stab the wight, or knock it off of him, but he is unable to do so in his weakened state. The ghouls grab at his face, and he is paralyzed with fear. The wight readys its blade for another strike, then drives it into his neck, severing his spinal cord. Mercifully, he cannot feel the pain. As his brain begins to shut down from lack of oxygen, he thinks he hears an evil laugh, and the words, "You fall, son of my enemy. You will rise my slave." The last thing that Ohtar thinks is, "If such must be the price of vengance, so be it. That he slays me for my treachery will only cause people to lend greater credence to the lies I have fed them." Having lain to rest a horde of undead in House Jorasco's graveyard, Adrialae is heading to the Open Palm Inn for a drink before returning home when she recieves her grandfather's message. Sure enough, as the message concludes, she sees a three ghouls and a wight coming from between the crypts. Before they can get close, she points a finger at the wight, speaking a word of power and drawing a symbol in the air. Command Undead. The wight looks as confused as is possible for an undead, and stops walking. "Kill the ghouls!" Adrialae commands, and before waiting to see what happens, she pulls a scroll from one of the cases at her waist, and reads it, teleporting to the great hall of the keep. Archie (Member) 5/14/2011 3:21 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces GP User: Slawler Posts: 223 Aeole is walking to the Wayward Lobster after a day of clearing kobolds from the sewers when he hears a message in his mind: "You are unsafe. Myself and your elder siblings have been attacked. Return immediately." The magic notifies him that he may send a short return message, and he takes the option to do so. "I have seen no such trouble, but- In harbour, attacked by undead. Will return when possible." The Banelord's team has been lurking in the shadows by the warehouses. While Aeole was responding to his father's message, they slipped towards him before leaping at him. Aeole ended the message just in time to pull his khopesh and large shield from his back and hold the shield in front of him, causing the undead to bounce off. Aeole sets his feet. In the ancient code of war that he follows, retreat is dishonour when the odds are even, but still frowned upon when outnumbered. The three ghouls leap at him as one, and though he parries one with his shield, another with his blade, and strikes the third with the elaborate hilt structure of the weapon, the wight has snuck around him. It stabs him in the back, the blade finding a chink in his armour. Aeole spins around, tearing the blade from the wight's grasp, and cuts of both of the wight's arms in a butterfly molinello before thrusting the blade into its chest. The ghouls, now jumping on him from behind, knock the warrior down, and they try to bite him through his armour. Having retained his grip on the shiled, but not the sword, he bashes one of the ghouls, causing a sickening crunch. The ghoul drops to the ground, but the other two have now moved towards his head, which is not protected. "Forgive me for my errors, and know that I strived to live an honourable life." Aeole politely declines the halfling's help. His face is rather bruised, and the wound in his back could be serious, but he would rather return to the fortress, where his brother can heal him, than go to a priest of the Flame. After thanking the halfling for saving him, he twists a ring on his right hand and dissapears. SickleYield (Applicant) 5/14/2011 4:02 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces Posts: 384 Xymorel Trannyth pushes hard at the manhole cover, trying to achieve leverage while clinging to a rope with her knees and one arm. She is not strong - the arm with which she is now shoving is toothpicklike in its diameter and muscle tone - but the covers in the Southern Marketplace tend to be often used and seldom stuck. Presently she succeeds. The disc of metal slides up and away, and fresh air pours down into the sewer. Xymorel clambers out onto the street, inhaling gratefully. She is not a racist person, possessing prejudices of a very different sort, but at this moment she would not be sorry never to see another troglodyte. This time, at least, she is relatively clean. Her robe is a little scorched, but that is so very commonplace that she does not notice it. There are sources of pure water even under the city,thank whatever gods exist (Xymorel is inclined to be agnostic on this point), and she has begun to know how to find them. A passing dwarf in a workman's apron pauses to stare at the skinny human in the worn robe. She's a sight, skin ashen and black hair all afrizz, but all kinds of things crawl up out of sewers in this district. Many are much more frightening in appearance than the trembling creature in front of him. Xymorel looks back with wide, wary eyes. They are hazel, but the constant reflection of flame tends to make the irises look red. There's nothing about the dwarf to suggest stealth or magical power, but every stranger is suspect. She stands with her ever-shaking hands folded tight around each other at chest level until he shrugs and moves on. Once the dwarf is out of sight, a brief burst of flame purges the remaining uncleanness from her hands. She is proud of that, for it is not long since she achieved the degree of control necessary. She has been working hard at it since the night she killed Xyries. Xymorel shudders again as she adjusts the straps of her knapsack and turns toward home. It's a couple of miles walk, and she will have to watch every shadow. It is her misfortune to have concluded her work at the time of night when those she considers her natural predators are most often about. She's not so afraid of rogues as she once was. Partly this is because she has learned that wizards are equally capable of harming her, but she still considers this progress. It is only a tense half-mile or so before she notices the footsteps. Xymorel stops, pressing her back to the closed front of a shop, and listens. The pursuit stops, but not so quickly that she is unable to hear it. Either there are many of them, or some are traveling alternately on all fours. Xymorel hastily downs a potion from her belt. Magic fizzles through her veins, restoring her partly-exhausted arcane power. It builds behind her eyes like water behind a dam. "I know you're th-there," she says, her hoarse alto loud in the quiet street. Her chronic resurrection sickness gets better and worse, depending on how recently she has died, but the stammer never seems to go away. "Show yourself!" Forms emerge from the shadow of an awning across the street and to her left. They move low to the ground, going alternately on two and four like apes. None wears more than a loincloth. All have gray skin shriveled tight to their bones, and she sees the gleam of yellow teeth in the light of the everbrights that shine from upper windows. Ghouls. Xymorel's fingers itch to burn them, the instinct of violent terror that she is still learning to quell. The pressure is almost unbearable. But she has fought many undead since her arrival in Stormreach, as every surviving adventurer must. She knows to look first for others. Her darting eyes find the straight, pale form of the wight, with its head of stiff black hair and its ancient breastplate. She recognizes the staff in its hand in time to throw herself to one side. The Hold Person spell misses. Then the ghouls charge forward, seeing their opportunity. Xymorel shrieks, scrambling upright as one swipes at her with a claw. It tears a strip from her robe and leaves a bloody gouge in her arm. Xymorel raises both hands and lets the fire go. Inferno sweeps the street in front of her with a hiss and a roar. The ghouls are gone immediately. The wight has time to snarl and hurl itself forward before it, too, turns to ash. Xymorel is left shivering, staring at the burning remains of the awning. A barrel nearby has caught fire as well. She quells them both with a cold ray - it is almost the only use she has for the lesser ice spell - and turns toward home. She does not want to be in view when the owner of the awning finds out what has happened. Besides, her arm aches and burns, and she knows her sister can easily heal it. Smudge (SuperAdmin) 5/14/2011 5:03 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces GP User: Smudge_ddo Posts: 518 Smudge had been sitting on her rooftop, playing with her now very mobile panther cub, when she noticed movement in the shadows below. This was not particularly abnormal, given the area in which she lived, but something about their movement just didn't seem right. She tucked the cub into a large, blanket lined box, and knelt on the edge of the rooftop, watching the figures below. When they began to attack patron of the Lobster, she understood why their gait had seemed so off. They were undead. She leapt off the roof, sword and dagger drawn, and floated down to assist the man. Inwardly she cursed. She despised fighting updead, most all of the tricks of her trade were useless against them. She landed behind one of the ghouls intent on the man's head, and smashed the hilt of her rapier into its head as hard as she could. There was a sickening crack and a hollow thunk as she caved in part of its skull, but it turned on her just the same. She shuddered in revulsion but kept up her guard. It leapt at her, clawing at the air, and she tumbled back into a neat roll, moving with it. Her feet caught it in the stomach and altered its trajectory just enough to send it sprawling behind her. The second ghoul was just drawing its arms back to bring its fists down like a hammer on the man's unprotected head, as Smudge rolled to her feet. She threw the dagger from her off hand at it, burying the good-enchanted blade in its face. It shrieked and clawed at it, backing away from the man. Smudge was distracted a second too long, and winced in pain as filthy claws raked her back. She may carry her sword on her at most times, but she had been caught unarmored. She turned with a growl, ducking low and thrusting the rapier into its gut. A parry and pair of thrusts in quick succession and its arms were useless. One more thrust and it crumpled into a heap. She turned on the still gibbering ghoul and dispatched it with a few harsh strokes while it still clawed at the dagger in its face. Retrieving her dagger, she turned to the man to check if he was still breathing, and offer her assistance in getting him to the cleric inside the Lobster. Nuadia ran her fingers through her short blonde hair as she sat on the edge of one of the stone benches by the shrine. It was soaked in sweat and matted from her helmet, so the coolness of the dank crypt actually came as a small respite now. Shadanthe sat beside her, the blonde, serious, paladin seeming unruffled by the hours of fighting. She said a short prayer, to which Shadanthe responded with one of her own, and they settled back for a few moments rest, the shrine returning their strength much more quickly then they could hope to regain it otherwise. Just as the cleric began to feel rejuvenated, she felt a palpable aura of negative energy nearby, moving toward them. She quickly strapped her helmet back on and prayed, setting blessings and protective spells upon herself and her companion. Shadanthe stood, strapping her tower shield back on her arm and unsheathing her sword. There was no need for Nuadia to tell her what was coming, she could feel it just as well. "I thought we'd cleared this wing already. Does their master raise them just as quickly as we put them down?" The cleric shuddered. "For our sakes, I certainly pray that is not the case." "Shall we dispatch this batch then, so we may deal with their master?" The paladin said with a slight smirk. Nuadia just nodded, pushing through the old wooden doors that protected the shrine. The doors opened into a large vault whose walls held small inset sepulchres from floor to ceiling. It had been crawling with undead earlier, but now lay silent. Four forms came into view on the far side of the vault, entering from the hall that lead to the entryway. Three ghouls scurried in, gibbering and chittering, ahead of a gaunt wight, dressed in the tattered and rotting robes of a priest. Shadanthe charged forward with a cry to Dol Dorn on her lips, bashing her shield into the wight even as it began to utter a foul prayer. Nuadia stood her ground calmly reciting a funerary prayer. "...may they know rest, eternal," she finished, just as the ghouls were nearly upon her. She drew her self up, drawing in divine energy, and unleashed it in a bright burst. "Turn!" she shouted, and the ghouls fell to dust around her. Three quick, efficient strikes, one channeling divine power, and Shadanthe had dispatched the wight as well. Nuadia glanced down at it. It seemed to be the only one so far with a device painted on its face. A strange curling thing she had not seen before. "Seems maybe you're right. Their master may well be making more as we speak. This one seems different from the rest." Shadanthe grunted in response. "Onward then!" The cleric nodded. "I'll keep an eye behind for any that may come from where we've already cleared. Push on." SaneDitto (Member) 5/14/2011 7:27 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces Posts: 131 The walk from Xyries' house to the Rusty Nail was not long, but Reuken deliberately slowed his pace so as to linger and breathe in the fresh air. Despite the cleric's hospitality, the tension lingering between them was taking a toll on his patience, and the outdoors helped to keep down the slight headache beginning to form behind his eyes. Other than the splashing of the tiny pool a ways off, the night within the Marketplace is mostly quiet; not many civilized souls wandered the streets at this hour. Though he could still hear the footsteps of other, possibly less savory, entities lingering around, he keeps his pace towards the Rusty Nail. Recent incidents will hopefully ensure his tenuous safety for the days to come, yet despite his confidence, his eyes begin to scope the rooftops and alleys, for he could not afford to be too complacent-- And that is the only thing that saved him from taking the ghoul's razor-sharp teeth in the worst possible place--the spine and the back of the neck, where it would doubtlessly have incapacitated him completely. Acting on reflex, he twists his body aside, letting the teeth clamp into the stiff leather and steel plating on his shoulder, a much more preferable area of effect. Nevertheless, he crashes to the ground on his back, borne down by the ghoul's weight, his shoulder on fire from where the undead's teeth finally pierced through and dug into flesh. Off in the distance, he can hear more panting and loping as more ghouls close in, lured by the smell of blood. Cursing his inattentiveness, Reuken's hands lash forth and grab both the ghoul's head and lower jaw, fingers digging for a foothold. Heaving his muscles, the half-elf utters a bellow as he rips the ghoul's jaws apart, and as the ghoul tries to shriek with what was left of its mouth, he staggers to his knees with a grunt and shoves the creature away with his other hand, still clenching the ghoul's lower jaw. The reek of the undead fills the air, and Reuken barely gets out one blade just in time to parry another ghoul's arms clawing at him. The creature grabs hold of the blade, ignoring the foul ichor dripping between its fingers, and thrusts its face forward, teeth bared. Reuken had to jerk his head back to avoid having his nose bitten off, and he lashes out his free hand in an uppercut, smashing the ghoul full in the jaw so that its teeth click shut, biting off a portion of its lashing tongue, and the other ghoul's severed jaw attached to its neck. The undead staggers back, more from the force of the blow than actually being stunned, and taking advantage of the brief interlude, Reuken quickly draws his other blade and aims for the creature's throat. Instead of slashing, he thrusts the weapon straight in, piercing trachea and splitting vertebral discs, and with a grunt, he rips it out to the side, nearly decapitating the ghoul. Its head wobbling from a chunk of flesh, the ghoul's hands release their trapping grip from the first blade and begin thrashing around, fingers curled into claw-like shapes, and Reuken's freed blade sweeps upward and across, deftly severing the hands and a good chunk of the arms. Fueled with the self-disregarding persistence only undead can have, the ghoul lunges again, trying to bite the half-elf with its comically dangling head, and Reuken, his expression utterly blank, lashes out with his blade, finally separating that bit of flesh. Teeth gnashing at empty air, the ghoul's severed head drops to roll on the stained earth, and the half-elf completes the coup de grace by booting the decapitated ghoul in the sternum, sending it sprawling. A gargling shriek fills the air behind him, and Reuken quickly turns to find the jawless ghoul pouncing upon him. Reflexively, he thrusts his blade forward and upward, impaling the creature mid-flight, and the ghoul, seemingly ignoring the weapon protruding from its gut, snakes its arms around to clasp the half-elf's throat. Panic nearly overwhelms Reuken as he begins to choke, the ghoul's thumbs pressing cruelly into his trachea. His lungs began to burn, then seize for air that would not come, and even amidst the ringing in his ears, he could hear the scrabbling of feet. Even with his vision distorted by pulsing afterimages, he managed to discern another ghoul and a wight behind his strangler, their hunched, crawling forms approaching with cruel determination, clearly eager to prolong their enjoyment of the hunt. Baring his teeth in a snarl, Reuken twists his head aside, allowing some air into his starved lungs. However, he could still feel the ghoul's thumbs digging into his neck, through the muscle and into the carotid artery, and with a snarl, he swings his free blade up in an arc, severing one arm with the sheer momentum before burying itself into the other. The ghoul screams, and Reuken, clenching his teeth, draws the blade back and forth in a sawing motion until the other arm finally snaps loose. Eyes narrowing, trying to concentrate on the ghoul and not on the hands still on his throat, the half-elf jams his foot into the ghoul's body and, using the creature as a brace, rips the blade out and kicks it into the two others. The wight nimbly hops to the side, while the other ghoul was not so lucky and shrieked as it is bowled over by its mutilated comrade's body. The shrieks quickly turn to slobbering as, driven into a frenzy by the smell of blood, the intact ghoul begins to devour the injured one in a mess of thrashing limbs. Reuken averts his gaze from the gory spectacle as he teases one of his blades between the remaining hand and his neck, having finished removing one. With a dismissive flick of his arm, the severed appendage flies loose from the half-elf's bruised throat and hits the ground before the wight, fingers contracting at thin air. The wight peers at it, razor-sharp teeth gleaming, before leaping over it to swipe at Reuken with sharp claws. The half-elf lifts his weapon, and there is an awful scraping screech as the wight's claws skitter harmlessly off metal. Snarling, the undead leaps back, circling its prey, a maneuver that Reuken imitates, until the two are circling together in an ever-tightening spiral. The slobbers of the ghoul devouring its companion fill the night, a sound that Reuken closes his ears to, trying to focus entirely on the hunched figure before him. The wight lunges, and Reuken lifts his blades; but it is a feint, and the creature quickly skitters and strikes towards his unprotected flank. Fire blooms in Reuken's left side as the wight's claws connect, and he staggers off to the side, pain whistling between his teeth. He lashes out with his blade, but it had already jumped back, a grin twisting that pale, haggard face as blood drips from its right claw. Any move not an attack is ground lost. Compressing his lips against the pain, Reuken limps forward, blades in hand, and the wight hops back before lunging forward, claws outstretched towards his face. The half-elf grimaces in pain as the talons lay open the flesh on his face, feeling the claws dig into his bleeding cheeks, oh so close to his eyes. Grimly, he leans forward into the attack and buries both his blades into the wight's body, and calling all of the remaining reserves of his strength, he screams and tears the blades out diagonally in opposite directions, effectively nearly bisecting the wight from shoulder to hip. The undead folds backwards in on itself and crumples to the ground, thrashing and spilling fluids everywhere. The final ghoul looks up from its meal just in time for Reuken's foot to drive into its head, pinning it to the ground. The half-elf's ravaged, bloodstained visage bears no expression as he slams a blade into the ghoul's right arm and begins sawing the limb off with the other, ignoring the creature's helpless writhing and thrashing. The arm finally comes off with the final sound of snapping tendons. Reuken begins to repeat the process with the other arm, and his heel digs deeper into the ghoul's skull as it begins to scream. The door to the Rusty Nail slams open, and colour drains from Jordan's cheeks as he catches sight of Reuken. Without a word, the half-elf strides past the bar, grabs the longbow and two quivers leaning against the corner, and calmly clips the quivers on, seemingly ignoring the blood flowing freely from his shoulder, flank, and face. After adjusting the straps, Reuken hooks his longbow under one arm, storms out of the tavern, and takes off towards Xyries' house as fast as his wounds would allow. "You can try to fight evil while remaining good. You'll fail, because you can't. You turn evil to kill evil, so the good don't have to suffer." Sunky (Member) 5/15/2011 1:15 AM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces GP User: okram Posts: 292 Leon slowly walked through the Cerulean hills as he attempted to clear his mind. He had just finished a rather lackluster evening in the tavern, topped off with a long series of awkward silences with a Drow woman whom caught his eye. He needed some fresh air, and the hills had often provided a good source of solace out of the walls of the city for him. A light drizzle that was so common for the region began to fall on the white haired elf as he slowly and aimlessly wandered along the paths running through the grassy hills. After a peaceful walk, with the orcs learning long ago to give the archer a long berth, Leon turned back towards the city gates, his head somewhat clearer, and in better shape for his evening meditations. He passed by the ruins of the old crumbled stone temple and began to head towards the old vineyard when his ears picked up the faint sound of feet trampling through the brush, uncaring to conceal it's movements. The orcs at least attempted to conceal their movements, especially within range of him, and the sounds seemed to be coming towards him at a fast pace. Leon paused looking at the path dipping down through a small ravine, a perfect ambush location. He then thought he heard the moans of gouls... he had not heard of necromancer activity here, and there weren't any catacombs nearby for them to have a source of bodies to work their vile magic... no he must be imagining things. Leon subconsciously put his right hand over a small silver trinket wrapped around his left wrist, and walked forward through the path. To his left and right a small group of gouls appeared out of the brush, each with a wight priest in tow. Leon clenched his eyes close... it had to be his memory playing tricks on him again. No, he wasn't in the war any more, he wasn't being ambushed by undead, “NO!” he shouted aloud. He opened his eyes, they were still there, charging down the slopes of the ravine. He could smell their rotting flesh, could hear the hungry gouls gnashing their teeth. Leon shuddered, then ran towards the city gates. Instead of reaching for his bow, he lifted the trinket to his mouth and mumbled an elvin word. The charm flashed with divine energy, and waves of calmness emanated from Leon, causing his shuddering to stop quickly. The divine magic caused the undead monsters to pause a moment in their pursuit, Leon opened his eyes, they were still there... this, was this real? He couldn't tell, he didn't know. He blinked, he looked at the undead, small force, forward scouts for the main force, he grinned at the monsters and grabbed his bow, notching an arrow and pulling the string back with his full strength, he unleashed an arrow that hummed through the air with a pulse of electric energy. The bolt ripped through the leading goul's head, electricity flooding through the creature's body, causing it to explode in a torrent of sparks, the arrow was not finished, passing easily through his first target's head, it cut clean through the arm of a goul behind him, sending an equally lethal electric charge through the second goul. It then implanted it's self into the body of one of the wights brining up the rear, turning the goul into a lightning rod for the now fully charged air, a huge thunderous bolt of lightning called down into the creature's body, causing it to splatter messily across the country side. Before the gouls could take another step, five more arrows were in the air, each finding a target with equally efficient deadly accuracy. The air was heavy with electric energy as little remained of the creatures around him. Leon blinked, and looked at the hills, he was within eye shot of the gates back to Stormreach, he... he wasn't in Cyre. Leon shut his eyes tightly, hands holding the trinket close, trying to get it's divine magic to make the memories stay were they belong, in the past... not... here. He opened his eyes one more time, the remains of the creatures still remained... they were here... again. Leon ran up to one of the mostly intact creatures and kicked it's rotten flesh, spilling more guts and blood across the green hills. SickleYield (Applicant) 5/15/2011 6:51 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces Posts: 384 The cleric stands in the street, a thin human in very heavy armor. The aura of positive energy gradually builds around her. Others might see a cloud of golden sparks and a diffuse glow extending a few feet in every direction. Her armor is beginning to feel heavier than it was earlier this evening, but this is not evident from her straight posture. She is peripherally aware of Reuken Kjersti standing poised nearby. Xymorel is an unbalancing presence herself, an island of arcane power barely contained as she makes her own preparations. But Xyries has no time to consider the others. The sound of air being disturbed by a teleportation spell is audible up the street, between them and the approaching ghouls. Sunky (Member) 5/15/2011 9:28 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces GP User: okram Posts: 292 The time after the attack had blurred in Leon's memories, his mind was set whirling and out of control, he had assumed that he had clearly gone mad, and only hoped that whatever he had attacked in the hills was an orc... and not innocent. He had shuffled his way through the city completely unaware of his surroundings, muttering the elvin activation word to his trinket over and over again. It's calming effect getting less and less with each attempt, until it's energy had been completely drained, and no longer had any effect. Then he found himself in the Phoenix, looking around for the one necro he knew, but could not find him, the calming effects not working anymore, he had lapsed to his old cure for his now assumed ruined mind, but Cog would not serve him alcohol. He wondered the streets again until he found himself in the bogwater tavern, several bottles of Rum purchased, and in a small pile of empty bottles. He remembered hurting his hand on an ogre's head when it tried to make him leave... and now he was looking at three or four blurry Arachans. The lich tried to say something to Leon, who could not focus, only anger could come from Leon's now fogged mind, throwing one of the empty bottles at the Arachan on the far left. Leon spat out curses at the foul lich, and then tried to stand to face him. But he was unable to stay balanced in the spinning world, and fell face first into the ground. Muttering even more curses against him. The words Arachan was speaking finally sunk into his muddled mind, necromancer, not his undead, attacking friends, Xymorel... He moaned, and slipped a bottle out of his pack, while Arachan left him to seek a cleric, he drunk the bottle and the spinning world quickly ceased, causing Leon's head to thunder like being smashed with a warhammer, and the bile in his stomach to quickly rush to the surface. It came up just in time to land on the returning Arachan's shoes. Leon groaned heavily as the cleric told Arachan that the inebriated elf was purging the alcohol already and left. Leon got to his feet as Arachan asked him, "are you ready to accept my assistance?" Leon groaned and mumbled, "what... what do I..." he paused in mid sentence, turning away and hurling another wretched volume of bile, then continued, "do I need your help for bloody necro?" Arachan pointed a finger at his shoes, the vomit quickly running off of them and towards the bogwater's small pond, "I can get you to Xymorel's residence much quickly." Leon wiped his mouth, and grumbled, then muttered, "fine," full of bile more wretched then what had just left his mouth, "but... don't tell Xymorel you found me drunk." Arachan nodded, and began to cast a teleportation spell. Leon tried to interrupt him, "wait, let me clean..." and then they popped out of the tavern. Archie (Member) 5/15/2011 9:53 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces GP User: Slawler Posts: 223 Arachan and Leon materialize in the street in front of Xyries' house. Leon glares at Arachan, and mutters, "Warn me before you do that again, bloody necro." Arachan, ignoring him, sees Xyries standing in the street, as well. "Good evening, Cle-" Arachan realizes that Xyries is practically glowing, and that Xymorel and Reuken are standing near the doorway. "We have not come a moment too soon, have we?" Arachan glares at Reuken, but turns to face the noise of the ghoul pack. Behind him, Leon already has an arrow to the string, and he fires before Arachan can begin his spellcasting. The arrow cleaves through two of the ghouls and into a wight, its electrically charged shaft sending electricity through their bodies, effectively frying the creatures. Arachan lifts a hand, and a wall of fire appears between the group of (mostly) living and the group of undead. Two of the remaining ghouls charge through the flames, burning, the rest skid to a halt behind the wall. Reuken charges one of the flaming ghouls, and kicks it back into the flames, where it is destroyed. The remaining ghoul runs past Reuken, Arachan, and Leon, and tries to attack Xyries, who still stands where she was when the fight began. Xyries extends a hand and speaks a prayer, and that ghoul joins its destroyed brethren. By this point, Leon has nocked five more arrows, and he releases them. As they sail through the firewall, they seem to pick up some of the magical fire. Three sink into the wight, and the other two into the remaining ghouls. Arachan waits a moment, then waves a hand, and the firewall is gone. SickleYield (Applicant) 5/15/2011 10:14 PM EST : RE: Exploratory Forces Posts: 384 Xyries looks around at the street, now dark and silent again. There are questions revolving in her increasingly tired mind, but they will wait. "Is anyone injured?" she asks. "No, but I will be if you do not stop that aura," Arachan says. "I'm f-fine," Xymorel says, from her post in the doorway. Reuken responds only by a minute shake of his head. Xyries breathes deeply, lowers her hands to her sides, and pulls the power in. The aura of positive energy retracts. "Let's get out of the bloody street," says Leon. It's dark, and afterimages still dance on her retinae; Xyries does not quite register his haggard appearance. Xyries turns to look at Arachan for a long moment. She is loth to remove any protection from her home for the lich's sake. Still, he did come, and he did bring Leon, however that seemingly impossible thing has come to pass. "Yes," she says. "I will need to remove some of the wards. The house is protected against entry by undead." Xymorel steps back into the house to allow her access. Xyries steps onto the threshold and places a hand on either doorpost. She can sense the network of divine power, the protections woven in and around the physical fabric of the building. To unmake them is the work of a moment. One tug at the threads from their maker, and the wards against undead dissolve like candyfloss in boiling water. "Come in," she says, and leads the way inside. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11Next There are members online. There are currently no polls. There are currently no polls. List of Events There are no upcoming events. Weekly Events Monday Night Chat (9pm est) Come to the forums Javachat! Role-play out-of-game with fellow guildmates and friends. Bake a cake. Kill a diredust bunny. Take a break from the video game dungeoneering and let your imagination stretch it legs. Thelanis Thursday (9:30pm est) Come flex your Role-playing muscles and interact with other role-players in this weekly event. RP in taverns and quests. 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Steve Jackson Games In Nomine In Nomine FAQ Last updated April 30, 2007 General Questions What is In Nomine? In Nomine is a game about the ultimate struggle: between the selfless and the selfish, between good and evil, between God and Lucifer. Ultimately, though, it comes down to angels and demons both trying their damnedest to sway humanity to their side. Annoyingly though, humanity and its precious free will keep spoiling plans of both the diabolical and the divine. In the game, you can play anything from a human just awakened to the Struggle, a Soldier who is a little more powerful and a lot more in the line of fire, a saint who has returned from heaven to help his fellow man, an undead creature or, as most do, an angel or demon. Last checked 5/25/05 Where can I get a copy? At fine game stores everywhere. If your local gameshop doesn't stock it, you can pick up a copy in PDF format at e23. Last checked 3/22/07 What is this In Nomine hardback I keep hearing about? The limited hardback version of In Nomine was shipped to distributors in mid to late March of 1997. Suggested retail is $29.95. There are two versions: white pseudo-leather cover with angel cross, and black cover with demonic (inverted) cross - both with red foil. Contents of both versions are identical to those of the softback. This is currently out of print and there are no plans for a reprint at this time. The second printing of the In Nomine core rules is also a hardback, with grayscale interior. It's sometimes known as the "blue book." It is currently out of print as well. Last checked 5/25/05 Isn't In Nomine just a translation of the French game by Croc, In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas? More correctly, In Nomine (the SJG version) is an adaptation of Croc's game. The basic concept is very similar, but if there were a true "translation" of INS/MV into English, the differences would be obvious. There was a direct translation into German for those who are interested. Last checked 5/25/05 Why not produce a direct translation of the French game? Because SJ doesn't think it would sell. If he thought it would sell, he'd have done that in the first place. Last checked 5/25/05 Will In Nomine follow the plotline of the original INS/MV? Will it add the same new Archangels and Demon Princes? Maybe sometimes. Certainly not all the time. Don't assume that anything in INS/MV has to carry over into In Nomine. It really is a different world. Last checked 5/25/05 Will there be supplements? There are a lot of supplements. For the latest information, check out the main In Nomine webpage and the e23 In Nomine page. As of this writing, all future supplements are slated for e23. Last checked 5/25/05 What is the name of that cool headline typeface? Is it public domain? Where did you get it? The name of the typeface is "Skreech Caps". It is not public domain and was created by the [T.26] type foundry in Chicago. SJG bought it through Precision Type Inc., of Commack, NY. As far as we know Precision Type doesn't have a webpage, but their phone number is 1-800-248-3668 if you want to order something from them. T.26 currently offers Skreech Caps for both PC and Mac, at $29 for either version or $43.50 for both. Some similar typefaces that resemble Skreech Caps can be found at Fonts for Freaks at Is there a GURPS conversion? Yup. Look here. There is also an unofficial conversion for free. Last checked 5/25/05 Is there a mailing list? There is! Go here for the information on how to subscribe. There's also a forum for In Nomine at the SJ Games forums. Last checked 8/13/07 There's this angel/demon mentioned in Blake/Milton/Dante/the Bible/this cool book about Angels I have. Why is he described differently in In Nomine? We've taken bits and pieces from a lot of different myths, traditions, and literary sources in putting together the In Nomine lineup of Archangels and Demon Princes. In many cases, these sources disagree. So, ultimately, we've gone with what feels right to us and helps us tell better stories and make a better game. We don't claim to be consistent with any specific source, though we hope the general feel of what we've done is consistent with the tone of the overall culture of celestial beings, as we imperfect humans perceive them. Last checked 5/25/05 I see a lot of weird acronyms on the mailing list. What do they mean? Here's some common ones: Book Abbreviations Last checked 5/25/05 Who's who in In Nomine right now? Last checked 5/25/05 My question isn't answered here! Where can I go for more information? Last checked 8/13/07 Rules Questions Can the Use Limitations for artifacts be fooled? Maybe, though it's a GM's call as to the precise situation. The Humanity Attunement is an excellent way to use human-only artifacts. Of course, very powerful artifacts (including those made by God, Lucifer, or many Superiors) are much harder to fool. In general, the default answer for those is "no," but if the character is very, very, very tricky, and jumps through the right hoops, and has a good day, it might work . . . otherwise, no way. Last checked 5/25/05 Can the artifacts of a dead character be reattuned? Yes, with great difficulty (or disturbing ease, depending on the plots of the GM). It requires at least the artifact's level in Essence and character points - and may or may not work, even then. Further, if the item's owner is not soul-killed, the original bond still exists, and will prevent any normal attempt to reattune it. (Naturally, de-Attunement or re-Attunement of powerful artifacts can make a nice adventure, even if the GM decides that it's a job for a Superior . . . who will naturally want a favor done in return.) Last checked 8/14/07 Corporeal Artifacts How much does a corporeal artifact cost? Why should I buy it at higher than Level/1? The cost is 1 point per level and the only reason to get it at a higher level is to make it easier to find. If using the new rules in the Liber Reliquarum, corporeal artifacts may also muffle disturbance, with the effects based on their level. Last checked 5/31/05 Is the level of the artifact the chance it will 'turn up' at the right time? No. It means that your chance to find your Porsche in a crowded parking lot is easier, not that your Porsche will happen to be in any random parking lot you are in. (Though that would certainly be an interesting house rule, it should probably cost more character points per level.) Last checked 5/31/05 Ethereal Artifacts: Talismans Who can use a talisman? Last checked 5/31/05 Why does a talisman cost 2 points when the matching skill would only cost 1? One point per level is for the skill, and the other is for the Attunement to the object. Keep in mind that talismans can boost skill above 6 and provide an object with which to use certain skills! (Try to use your Large Weapons skill without a large weapon handy . . . ) Last checked 5/31/05 Celestial Artifacts: Relics and Reliquaries How much is the cost of a relic/reliquary? The rules were a bit scattered (between p. 42 and p. 71), but here are the basic ones. (Use the rules in the Liber Reliquarum for fancier artifacts.) Last checked 5/31/05, but only from memory and not with quality time with the Liber Reliquarum Can Soldiers use relics/reliquaries? Soldiers can use Corporeal Songs in a relic, any normal reliquaries, and reliquaries that power a relic for the use of Corporeal Songs. If a Soldier has the capability of using Ethereal Songs (such as Dream Soldiers) he can also use the Ethereal Songs in a relic. Last checked 8/14/07 What's the difference between Holy/Unholy Bullets? Last checked 8/14/07 Can a Un/Holy Pistol be a .44 or other weapon? Yes. One thing to keep in mind, though, is the damage from the bullet comes from the mystical nature of the weapon, not from the increased size/weight of the bullet or from better gunpowder - so it would do exactly the same amount of damage as the ones listed in the book. The reason a .44 bullet does more damage is for purely mundane reasons (more gunpowder, more damaging material). An Un/holy bullet is constructed from materials for mystic potency - not improved impact ratios! You would only get the larger Power when using regular bullets. An M-16 Holy "Pistol" would still only be able to fire one Holy bullet during a round! No autofire here! On the other hand, the Accuracy is determined by the shape/fineness of the weapon. Last checked 5/31/05 On another note, the damage listed for Un/Holy Bullets is wrong. The correct value is given under Un/Holy Pistol (Power = check digit times level). This erratum has not been cross-checked with the errata pages yet to determine which printing it applies to. What are the effects of Holy/Unholy water? Water used at your local church (or black coven) has no effect on celestials of either stripe. On the other hand, certain relics might have the ability to make more potent brews. For example, a particularly nice combination might make Holy water that has the same properties as the Holy Bullets on p. 71. See the Liber Reliquarum for details on constructing new relics. Last checked 5/31/05 When you use a relic, you automatically use all the Essence in the relic. Does all that Essence have to go towards 'powering' the Song (increasing its effect), or can it be used to increase the target number as well? The Essence is only usable for powering the Song. Any excess is lost. Last checked 8/14/07 Can you buy an Attunement from a Superior other than your own? Yes. However, there are certain requirements - first and foremost of which is that the GM is free to say No whether or not the character has the points! Superiors have their own personalities and agendas, and may not want to grant an Attunement to someone else's Servitor. Last checked 8/14/07 What about Sabrina, from p. 197? Sabrina is not a starting character in that regard. Talk to her GM about it. Last checked 5/31/05 What happens to your Attunements and Distinctions if your Superior dies or Falls/redeems? You keep your Attunements and Distinctions unless 'higher powers' (either your Superior, the Seraphim Council, Lucifer, etc) decide to take them away. In the case of Falling/redemption, it's very likely that they will be stripped because of possible tainting by the 'other side'. The gifts of missing Superiors (like the Archangel of Purity) also are kept. See the Game Master's Guide for more about the powers of a Word and how they are affected when the Word's holder changes drastically. Last checked 5/31/05 Does time pass for a "swiped" object (Servitor Attunement of Valefor and Janus)? Nope. The clock is stopped until the object returns. Yes, this counts for detonation timers and there are many tricky things you can do with this information. Last checked 5/31/05 Can you Swipe something that someone is holding? Yes, but the current possessor can resist with a Strength roll. Also, the item to be swiped must be visible (being touched is good enough). Last checked 5/31/05 What is the range for Swipe and Passage? For Swipe, it must be touched and something that can normally be taken. Yes, you can take someone's wallet or watch, but you can't get their pacemaker or even a piece of gum in their mouth (unless you, ick, happen to be touching these things). For Passage, range is also touch, but the GM is free to interpret this as within touching range if it's more fun that way. Last checked 8/14/07 Celestial Forms Can someone disguise while in their celestial form? (e.g. looking like a Lilim when you are a Balseraph?) or change your shape temporarily or permanently? In general, no. There are interesting Songs in the Liber Canticorum, though . . . It is generally assumed that those celestials with vessels can assume a "seeming" of that vessel. However, due to the "physics" of the celestial realm, their true natures are not actually hidden to anyone who pays at least a little attention. An Ofanite "looking" like a human is also a spinning Wheel of flame; a Balseraph seeming to be a "naga" half-snake/half-human is only mistakable for a Djinn by very confused damned. Last checked 5/31/05 Exactly how do the rules for perceiving celestials in celestial form (p. 54) work? A celestial in celestial form can speak to anyone who sees/perceives it. The Song of Tongues (Ethereal and Celestial versions only) allows someone who hasn't seen/perceived the celestial to hear the message via the Song. This, in turn, gives the person a new chance to see/perceive the celestial. Last checked 5/31/05 Character Creation Can a starting character convert character points to characteristic points or Forces? If they buy a Force, does this mean their total character points go up? Officially, the purchase of characteristics and Forces is not a part of character creation. As always, GMs can make their own ruling on that; 3 points per characteristic (up to 3 per realm) and 10 points per Force. And, no, you don't get more points when you raise your Forces! Last checked 5/31/05 Do the three levels of Discord that Outcasts and Renegades start with give extra character points? They do get the points. This is a change from a previous FAQ! Last checked 5/31/05 Some of the characters in the supplements have characteristics above 12. Is this legal? Rarely. (Note that this IS a change from before). Twelve is that max for celestials and 10 for humans. Servitors of Khalid can go to 13, because they have Choir Attunements that grant an extra characteristic point. All known examples have been errata-ed. If you find one that isn't, please report it using the handy web-form linked off the errata page. Last checked 5/31/05 Q: How much Charisma can I have? Can I have more than one kind of Charisma? You can have up to 3 total levels of basic and limited Charisma, of any kind. One level of Sex Appeal and two levels of basic Charisma; one level each of Sex Appeal, Academic Renown, and basic Charisma; or three levels of Fan Favorite are all acceptable . . . as long as you don't have more than three total levels. Last checked 5/31/05 Combat and Damage Hey! Strength gives almost no bonus to damage, but directly increases the chance to hit! What gives? Strength is used for dukin' it out and for large weapons. In the latter case, it's pretty obvious why this statistic was chosen. As for the former, in the long run we are talking about a game that is much more superheroic than realistic. In a world like that, it matters little if the strong guy hits a few times with a lot of damage and the quick weak guy hits lots of times with almost no damage, the end result is the same: The strong guy does more damage. It's possible to invent a new skill (Judo perhaps) based on agility, for those martial artist types, but for the moment, the GM will have to make that house rule. Last checked 5/31/05 Those angels are using guns! They certainly are. While celestials have access to powerful Songs, when they are fighting on the Corporeal plane (i.e., Earth), it makes less disturbance and is frequently more effective to eliminate their opponent's vessel using Corporeal means. They'd probably use hand-grenades and rocket-launchers more often if it didn't generate so much noise (in several senses of the word). Last checked 5/31/05 It seems that even an "average" human can take a lot of hits. The rules for calculating a mortal's hits has been changed. The new formula is: (Corporeal Forces + Toughness) times Strength. Toughness is a new attribute (only purchaseable by mortals) that costs four points per level, up to two levels; see the Corporeal Player's Guide. The second printing of the core rules also mentions Toughness, but not its cost; now you know. Because a human no longer has a 'level' for determining when they die (In Nomine, p. 62), treat their level as one for that formula (i.e., a human dies when they take enough Body Hits to bring them to negative Strength). Toughness adds to this 'death point' so a human with 5 Strength and 2 Toughness needs to lose all their Body Hits, plus 7 more in order to die. Undead and Saints are less "crunchy" and expire after -(Corporeal Forces + Toughness) times Strength. Last checked 8/14/07 What if someone switches vessels in the same combat round that they get hit? All things are simultaneous in a round in basic combat. So, both happen, the celestial gets hit and switches vessel (in other words, the original vessel is the one damaged). Whenever that celestial switches back, that celestial will find their vessel in the condition as if the hit took place. This might mean that the vessel is unconscious or even mortally wounded. In advanced combat, follow the order given on p. 68 or on the GM's screen. In this case, switching vessels is a supernatural power which happens before getting hit. Remember that each vessel has its own supply of Body hits, making an alternate vessel much more attractive a choice! Last checked 5/31/05 Does physical damage cause pain/shock effects? Yes. Stunning (p. 62) occurs when you take hits equal to more than 25% of your Body in one round. Last checked 5/31/05 Can you use Essence to assist with Will rolls while stunned? Yes. Resisting something with Will is not an "action," per se, and the use of Essence is nearly instinctive. Last checked 5/31/05 If an attack has a modified Power of less than zero, what is the final damage? Zero (see p. 38). Last checked 5/31/05 Is there any way for a human (or someone in a vessel) to take celestial damage? In general, any being with a corporeal form (including humans) is immune to celestial damage. There are specific cases where this is possible, though, and they are noted when it happens. Calabim of Lust, for example, have a nasty little Band Attunement. Last checked 5/31/05 What's the difference between the Fighting skill and the Corporeal Combat rules on p. 62? From the errata: Hand-to-hand combat is either [Strength + Corporeal Forces + Fighting] or [Strength + Corporeal Forces + Weapon skill]. Last checked 5/31/05, but if I had ambition, I'd double-check both the errata and the second printing. What's the Power of hand-to-hand attacks in celestial combat? Last checked 5/31/05 Where does a person go if "ejected from the Marches" as a result of taking too much Ethereal damage? If the person has a corporeal body (such as a human or a sleeping celestial), then they return to that body, unconscious. If a person has no usable corporeal body (such as someone who has been evicted due to a Possession, or who started out in the Marches), they either coalesce around their Heart (if they have one) or other problems occur. See the Ethereal Player's Guide for more details. At the GM's whim, celestials might develop the Bound Discord (instead of a random Ethereal Discord) to something on the corporeal plane. Humans could temporarily become spirits on Earth until their body is freed up. Last checked 5/31/05 Why is it that someone with a total skill of 10 and someone with a total skill of 4 have the same chance for a spectacular (6 on the check digit) result? Actually, they don't. The person with a 10 is much more likely to succeed, then get the six on the check digit, while the person with the 4 skill has a hard time succeeding at all! So in this example the first person has a 11 chances out of 72 to get the spectacular successful result while his unskilled counterpart only has a 2 in 72 chance for the same result. Last checked 5/31/05 Do I have to use the check digit? What about situations where the check digit wouldn't apply? Except where the rules specifically mention it (and not even then for you gung-ho GMs), the check digit need never be consulted. In most other cases it can just be used for color at the whim of the GM. Also remember that a "6" success for an olympic athlete might be different than that of a couch potato! (Until we get to the channel surfing event . . . ) "Color" judgments should take the performer's skill into account. Last checked 5/31/05 Ummmm . . . isn't "666" supposed to be a satanic number of some sort? Yes and no. It was mentioned in the revelation according to Saint John the Divine as the Number of the Beast. If anything, it was a warning as a way to recognize "the Beast," whomever or whatever it might be. But for this game, it's just a fun way of representing a different dice convention. We couldn't just call it 3d6, and 2d6/d6 doesn't quite the same ring to it. Recently, it's come to light that some scholars believe the Number of the Beast is actually 616. Despite this late breaking news, In Nomine will not be using the "Forwarding Address of the Beast" as the Infernal Intervention number. Last checked 5/31/05 Do I roll if I have an automatic success? Yes. This determines the check digit and the possibility of Intervention. GMs like possibilities for Interventions. GMs who don't will tell you not to roll. Last checked 5/31/05 Demon Princes Can mortals have Discord? No. It is a purely celestial problem. Mortals can certainly suffer some of the ills which, in a celestial, are outward symptoms of Discord, and the character point effect is the same (see the Corporeal Player's Guide) for these disadvantages. But it is not really Discord. For instance: in a celestial, being Crippled is a sign of a stained soul, but in a mortal, it is a sign of an amputated. Likewise, a human who has a mental problem is not touched by the Pit. (In Nomine, p. 63, states that Ethereal Discord can be gained in ethereal combat. If this happens to a human, he does indeed take the indicated form of mental trauma, but it is not really Discord.) What do angels detect if a Bright Lilim has the Aura Discord? Since the Lilim no longer belong to a "Band," all the angel can detect is that she is an angel. (This is a change from a previous ruling, and a GM may certainly decide that Lilim is Lilim and the Aura does not distinguish between Bright and dark Daughters.) Last checked 5/31/05 If a celestial has the Bound Discord, what happens if the vessel or object is destroyed/slain? (The following is a change to a prior FAQ.) If the celestial is Bound into a vessel, it proceeds to Trauma (and its Heart or Limbo) normally - though the GM may decide that it takes longer than usual for the sundered spirit to "coalesce" properly and start trying to recover from Trauma! For Malakim, who don't suffer Trauma and awaken nearly instantly when corporeally killed, it may take them the longer time that other Choirs must endure, in a sort of mini-Trauma. Afterwards, the celestial is still Bound! Until the Discord is removed, any vessel it manifests in will be the one it's stuck in. If the celestial is Bound to an artifact, total destruction will either shift the Discord to the current vessel, or result in Trauma (for Kyriotates and Shedim). Otherwise, it's merely very painful and leaves the celestial stuck in the largest portion. At the GM's option, the celestial could Bind itself to another vessel/item. The old one can be trashed at this point. Suggested mechanics are: Increase the level of the Discord by at least one. If the being does not have another vessel to do this with, then binding into an object is the only possibility. If the Discord was already at 6, then a new level of some other Discord (GM's option) is added on - probably something suitable to the means used to destroy the old vessel/item. Last checked 8/14/07; I have checked my books, but the detail of the suggested mechanics nag at me. If this was not a prior FAQ-keeper's good idea, but instead a forgotten tidbit from a dead-trees book, please notify me at the In Nomine Mailing List, Forums, or in email. Would a celestial gain dissonance from their vessel's actions while possessed? No. The celestial is not present. How do celestials who have to travel work off dissonance at Tethers? The best methods are moving Tethers and swapping back and forth between Tethers (for example going up to a celestial realm along the Tether and back down another Tether). Although the travel time between Tethers doesn't count as service, as long as it isn't TOO long the celestial can break up their service in order to get their full week in. Seneschals who remain within their Tethers are exempt from such troubling dissonance conditions (see the Liber Castellorum); some Tethers may, at the GM's option, extend that immunity to Servitors who work within them. Last checked 8/14/07 If an angel or demon has a level 2 Distinction, does he also get level 1? Does the same apply to level 3 for levels 2 and 1? Yes, but keep in mind that a being has to earn the lower-level Distinctions to get the higher ones, so the point is moot. The only use in not listing the lower-level ones is to save room on the character sheet. A Superior could grant the powers of Distinctions "out of order," but that would confuse everyone, so they don't. Last checked 5/31/05 When do Distinctions take effect? Do they require a roll? Distinctions work on a case-by-case basis. Unless specified, none require a roll. Any active Distinction (e.g., Vassals of Fire's ability to raise or lower the temperature of a fire) require a round to take effect. Passive ones (e.g., Vassals of Stone's ability to not be hurt by earth or stone) are automatic and continuous. Some that seem active are really passive (e.g., Masters of the Granite Hand get to multiply their check digit by the angel's Corporeal Forces. The active part is making the attack. The Distinction is passive and merely multiplies the amount of damage.) Last checked 5/31/05 Does switching to a celestial form cause the same degree of Disturbance in the Symphony as the act of moving between the celestial and corporeal realms? Yes, but see the next question. Remember, that the Essence is paid (and the disturbance created), only when a successful Will roll is made to change to a celestial Form. (p. 55). Last checked 5/31/05 Does the 2 Essence required to change into celestial form add to the disturbance? Yes. (pp. 54-55) Last checked 5/31/05 So how much noise does swapping between corporeal vessels make? Going from one Corporeal vessel to another costs one Essence, requires no roll, and makes the same amount of disturbance as going celestial. Last checked 5/31/05 Does a celestial going to the celestial realm cause double the disturbance (once for changing form, and again for leaving)? Yes, although entering doesn't necessarily cause double since one can go to the corporeal realm directly into a vessel. As a general guideline, GMs should always make the disturbance rules side with celestial powers being as noisy as possible. Celestial powers make celestials hot stuff on earth, but there is always risk involved - being noticed. Last checked 5/31/05 Does killing a Soldier create disturbance for a celestial? Yup. Soldiers are still human. They belong on Earth (which is why they themselves do not generate disturbance when they damage things, and killing them generates a lot of disturbance. Last checked 5/31/05 Does damaging, but not killing, a human cause disturbance? Damage to any native thing on Earth does disturbance. One note of disturbance for every four points of damage. Last checked 5/31/05 Does hurting a possessed human cause disturbance? Yes. They may be under control, but that's still a part of the Symphony being damaged. A Kyriotate fighting a Shedite can be a very noisy battle! Last checked 5/31/05 Does an attack by a celestial on an undead creature cause disturbance? Yes. Just like attacking any human, no matter how twisted they are. Last checked 5/31/05 If a celestial kills a busload of nuns by sabotaging the brakes, but he's far away when the deaths finally occur, where and when is any disturbance produced? Generally at the site of the crash, but see In Nomine, p. 55: "At the GM's discretion, the tracker may be led to the physical site of the disturbance, or the celestial who caused it, or to both in succession." Last checked 5/31/05 How much noise is made when a celestial is killed and forced to return to its Heart? None. Their Forces are blasted and don't leave the corporeal plane in any organized fashion (the fact that the vessel is left behind may be a factor in masking any disturbance). This is one reason that being killed is so Traumatic! Last checked 5/31/05 Is there a disturbance when you damage the host of a celestial? Yes. You are still damaging the body of something that belongs in the Symphony. If the body is a vessel, on the other hand, there would be no noise. (Punching someone hard enough to do damage is one way of playing the "human or celestial?" guessing game. Don't try it if you're a Mercurian.) Last checked 5/31/05 How much noise does a Kyriotate make if it uses 3 Forces to manifest a celestial form on the corporeal plane? The same as usual (i.e., their total Forces). Last checked 5/31/05 Is there a disturbance from a normal human's instinctive use of Essence? No. The disturbance is only cause from conscious, deliberate use of Essence (e.g., powering a Song, improving a roll with conscious Essence control, etc.). Last checked 5/31/05 Does a celestial eating a sandwich cause disturbance? How about exploding a grenade that damages nothing other than itself? In Nomine, p.55, "Everything that celestials do on Earth creates foreign notes in the Symphony. Most are small and easily overlooked. But certain actions, if taken by a celestial, will create dramatic reverberations which can draw attention." So, basically, minor things are lost in the background noise of the Symphony. Things that are designed to be broken up (like a grenade) do not cause a disturbance when they blow as long as nothing else is damaged; the GM should err on the side of things being disturbing, though. On the other hand, some beings might be able to detect even "microscopic" disturbances . . . Last checked 5/31/05 Does a host cause disturbance if they are possessed by a celestial and cause damage? Yes, because the possessor is celestial. Note, this even applies to Shedim who are "convincing" their still-present hosts. While a case could be made for a Shedite "sitting back" and letting the host get along with his job as a car-compactor operator, the Shedite is still the one fundamentally in control. Disturbance will be generated. Last checked 5/31/05 Do angels and demons cause disturbance when going to Heaven or Hell (like they do when arriving on Earth?) Not if they are going to their own realms. Angels in Hell and demons in Heaven will cause disturbance in those realms. See Heaven & Hell - or possibly its errata. Last checked 5/31/05 What happens to ethereals with no Celestial Forces? They wander around the Marches, where they are probably quickly dispatched or make it to the Far Marches and are absorbed by some other being. Ethereal Remnants can also exist on Earth like celestial Remnants. It's up to the GM, really. Last checked 5/31/05 An angel can become a demon just by rolling badly?! Not at all. If you never generate dissonance, you cannot Fall. There are other points to consider, too. Last checked 5/31/05 When an angel Falls, I guess its celestial appearance changes, but what causes that change? Can it be somewhat controlled? Metaphysics. Angels are creatures whose nature is attuned to some part of the Symphony - their Choir, their Superior, their own Word. By rejecting that nature, their resonances change . . . they strike a new chord. Their outward appearance reflects the resonance of a Fallen angel. Last checked 5/31/05 It says here that Malakim can't fall at all! Can this be right? Yup. Malakim don't Fall. However, they do gain dissonance everytime they act dishonorably, especially by breaking one of their oaths. If they succeed on their dissonance roll, they just get one more note of dissonance. If they fail a dissonance roll the first time, they become Outcast (and gain another note of dissonance). Yes, they can be Outcast. For each time an Outcast Malakite fails a dissonance roll, they gain another note of dissonance and a level of Discord. (Just like demons, who mutter things about "You can't Fall off the floor.") Of course, Outcast Malakim risk being hunted down by their fellows before they dishonor Heaven itself. Last checked 5/31/05 If a character has no Forces, how are the characteristics determined? He has 4 times his Forces in the area, which is zero. So his total characteristics are zero in both stats. Rough life, isn't it? In the case of Remnants, the only reason a stiff celestial breeze won't just blow them away is that they are protected by their vessels. Last checked 5/31/05 Can non-humans have more than 6 forces in an area? Nope. Powerful beings (Demon Princes, Archangels, old-time ethereal gods and the like) can apparently do an end-run around this limit by having powerful Words, etc. The Game Master's Guide discusses ways to quantify - or not - Superiors. The limit for PCs is 6 per area and 18 total. Period. (This is a change from the previous FAQ entry.) Last checked 5/31/05 What's the difference between buying Forces directly and raising the underlying statistics until a Force increase occurs? The Game Master's Guide has more detail on the issue, but basically it boils down to who has control over the process. The first option is that (most of the time) only Superiors can add Forces and once the character is one characteristic point away from getting the Force, they petition their Superior. Under this model, the cost of the fourth characteristic is only 1 point (thus making the cost 10 character points, the same as raising a Force directly). The second option is that characters can "sneak" a Force in without the permission or help of their Superior. This is especially crucial for demons who want to keep everyone in the dark about their capabilities. If you are "sneaking" a Force, you have to pay the full 12 cps (4 characteristic levels times 3 character ppoints each). Ask your GM which method is being used in the campaign. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a Heart be moved from Heaven to Hell? (e.g. You WANT to fall so you take your Heart from Heaven before Dominic's pals get it and you move it to Hell . . . I don't say it has to be easy . . . just want to know if it's possible or completely impossible). Hearts are something your Superior creates so that you have a celestial home. When you Fall/redeem, your Heart self-destructs since you have broken a metaphysical contact with your Superior. You can swipe (or be given) your Heart from your Superior and put it anywhere you want - in the realm where it was created. Blandine and Beleth could presumably create Hearts in the ethereal realm, but that would leave them more vulnerable to attacks by ethereals or each others' forces, so they don't. This is a simplification of a prior, rather complex, FAQ. Last checked 5/31/05 Can you have more than one Heart? (e.g., Oooops, Dominic got my Heart and kept it locked somewhere to track me and now my Demon Prince made me a new one?) No. This is a revision to a particularly egregious prior answer. If you want to get rid of an old, inconvenient Heart by binding to a new Superior, the act of creating a new Heart shatters the old one. Falling or redeeming also shatter one's former Heart, even before a new Heart is crafted. What is the process for creating a Heart? Can a celestial with its own Word create a Heart for him/herself? for another? Or is that the exlusive realm of Archangels & Demon Princes? The latter. Only Superiors make Hearts. (Or McGuffins. GMs may always introduce McGuffins.) Last checked 5/31/05 Hearts can't leave the celestial plane . . . where are the Hearts of Beleth's and Blandine's Servitors? See above. While they could create Hearts in the Marches, it would be a stupid risk to take. Blandine, a Cherub, would not put her Servitors in such needless danger, and Beleth, a Djinn, would not allow the chance that her minions might steal their Hearts and set off for the Far Marches. How about a Lilim's Heart? A "bound" Lilim - not Discordant, but merely serving a Prince - would have a Superior-forged heart in some Principality of Hell, same as any other Servitor. Lilim who are "free" don't have Hearts. While it might be possible to have a Prince create a Heart for her, it would not come cheap - the number of Geases would make most Free Lilim quail. And afterwards, allowing her to move the Heart where she would? Even more expensive. (Why should Princes waste the energy making a Heart for someone who's not a Servitor? If you want a Heart, bind to a Prince.) Last checked 5/31/05 Where do Heartless celestials go when their corporeal vessels are killed? They go into a realm known as Limbo. Limbo is a nerve-rackingly boring place that a celestial being is trapped in until it can form a new vessel. See Heaven and Hell or GURPS In Nomine. Last checked 5/31/05 Can Heartless demons go to Earth? A Heartless demon, having never been to Earth before, can only go there via a Tether (or if summoned by a sorcerer). If he doesn't have a vessel or other "anchor" to hold him there, he will soon take damage or get sucked back to a Hellish Heart, if he has one. Shedim might be able to last longer, but demonic Seneschals and Princes frown severely on such unauthorized jaunts. For that matter, this applies to most angels, too. Last checked 5/31/05 Are Barons of Belial immune to the heat generated by picking up the Hearts of other demons? It's not a real fire-like heat, but simply something that feels like heat. It probably has something to do with the clashing symphonies of the demons involved. So they are most definitely not immune! Last checked 5/31/05 Can a human become a celestial? Humans and other corporeal beings are essentially different from celestial beings. A human can never become an angel or demon (or vice-versa). There are several mentions of humans "becoming" demons in some rulebooks. These references are to the process where a human soul is stripped of Forces and then are grafted onto a demon (including some memories). To outward appearances, they may look the same, but the human is dead. Last checked 5/31/05 How many Forces can a human have? Most typical humans have five Forces. Less than this indicates someone who is very young, very old or deficient in some way. Very special people (including Soldiers by definition) can have more than this. The maximum is 15 forces (five in each area). Any more than this would put a human over the maximum characteristic limit (10). Last checked 5/31/05 Can a human have over five Forces without being a Soldier? Yes, but it requires a very dedicated and motivated person who is actively striving for something more than the average, or for something outside of themselves. (For other ways, see the Corporeal Player's Guide) Just having six Forces does not give the advantages of being a Soldier (such as Symphonic Awareness and the ability to control one's Essence deliberately), but it does make one prime recruitment material by either side! Last checked 5/31/05 Does a human with zero celestial Forces have a soul? Yes, but this is a very rare situation. Normally, a human has at least one Force in each area. Due to advanced age or other damage, a human might lose his last Celestial Force - or, as a GM may rule, lose access to it on this side of death. Such misfortunates are usually very close to dying, but they still have their souls and will go to the appropriate place when they die. Note that some souls will disband upon the death of the entity or through celestial combat. A living human with zero Celestial Forces will resemble a remnant. Last checked 5/31/05 Humans seem to have a lousy chance to do almost any skill (due to low characteristics). Is this right? Not exactly. Under most circumstances, for normal actions, the GM shouldn't require a die roll at all from a human. If you are just driving down the street, you don't need a driving roll! It's when a character tries something different, unusually difficult, or in a stressful situation that the die rolls become necessary. See the Corporeal Player's Guide for more info on this. Last checked 5/31/05 Can humans have Words? Distinctions? Choir/Band Attunements? In general, no to the first and last. Distinctions are special kinds of Servitor Attunements, with rank associated with them - so they're only granted to humans if the human holds that rank! Humans don't get Words (no one knows how Lilith has hers) and Choir/Band Attunements have other requirements. See the Corporeal Player's Guide. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a normal human (i.e., without conscious control over Essence) accept Essence from someone (either consciously or having it forced on them)? Not normally, no. Superiors and certain supernatural powers could bend this, though. Last checked 5/31/05 What does the check digit do when a character fails to invoke a Superior? If you are at a Tether, that is the number of days it takes before the Superior responds to the message. Outside of a Tether, it's the number of days before you can try again. The Marches Do all humans end up in Blandine's or Beleth's realms when they sleep? Blandine and Beleth have the power to draw dreamers into their specific areas of the Marches. Some human dreamers do get to the Far Marches, either through power or talent, or just by accident. Last checked 5/31/05 Can celestials who ascend to the Marches via sleeping communicate with those beings that are there "physically"? Yes. Celestials who are "dreaming" don't have a dreamscape, and do not dream in the way mortals do. They just are using an alternate method of getting their consciousness to the Marches. Last checked 5/31/05 What do celestials look like in the Marches? They usually look like whatever their last form was (celestial form, last vessel, etc.). With a successful Dreaming roll, the celestial can make themselves look like anything. Talismans and relics keep their natural shape. You can't just be "invisible" without being a Malakite of Dreams; the Marches reacts to the presence of everything on the realm. See the Ethereal Player's ZGuide Last checked 5/31/05 Why can't Outcasts go celestial while Renegades can? This is errata'ed. Outcasts can, in fact, take their celestial forms. Last checked 5/31/05 What is the range for a Shedite/Kyriotate's possession resonance? How about for Song of Possession? Use the Resonance modifiers on p. 57 with the limitation that is common to most demonic resonances - i.e., you can't use a recording of any sort, but live transmissions are all right. (GMs may wish to deprive Shedim of the ability to use even live transmissions for their resonance.) Note that Shedim cause disturbance when they go between hosts unless they are "oozing" - touching the new host with the old one (since they would otherwise have to go celestial). See the Infernal Player's Guide for exact oozing mechanics. Last checked 8/14/07 Does the "rider" get the movement abilities of the host? What about special senses? Standard movement and abilities are included in the "owner's manual" that comes with the host. The possessors' tie with the Symphony provides such instincts for free. Learned skills, such as a pigeon who's been taught to do loop-de-loops when it wants birdseed, are unavailable. Senses are included with the vessel unless, for some reason, they depend on a learned skill. So, in a cat body, for example, the possessor would get a bonus to sneak (due to the small size and padded paws) and a bonus to climb trees (claws), but a GM might rule that when walking across a narrow ledge, no roll was necessary since that was included as part of a cat's "natural movement" abilities. Last checked 5/31/05 What is the Will of an "empty" vessel? (For example, a body in a Body Bag.) The body has no Will and therefore doesn't get a roll to resist Possession. Last checked 5/31/05 Does a possessing being get the skills of an animal they possess? See above. The "skills" of an animal are mostly hardwired reflexes and the advantages of having a body well-suited to practicing them (claws on cats for climbing). Use normal skill rolls, but give a bonus based on body shape and size . . . . or a penalty! Elephants aren't very stealthy, for example, while mice are. Last checked 5/31/05 What happens to a celestial when its vessel is possessed? The celestial's mind is tossed into the Marches. If it has another vessel it can use, it can get back to earth with that one. A Kyriotate who has no other vessel assumes its Celestial form (p. 102). Shedim are evicted and must find a new host quickly (p. 152). When the duration of Possession is over, the mind of the celestial is drawn back to its vessel as long as it is still in the Marches (or it can choose to let the vessel vanish). If it is elsewhere, the vessel vanishes. Last checked 5/31/05 Is there any disturbance when a Kyriotate/Shedite possesses a host? No. Shedim cause disturbance when leaving a host via assuming celestial form, but not for taking a host, or when oozing. Does a Kyriotate or Shedite have to abandon a host to possess a new one? The old host is relinquished when the new one is successfully taken over, for Kyriotates who don't have enough Forces to keep both hosts. Shedim normally have to assume celestial form, leaving one host before taking another, but can also "ooze" between hosts (see the Infernal Player's Guide, p. 57). What happens to the Discord of the possessor when it is in a host? Most Discords show up immediately, but the ones that have large physical changes (like most Corporeal Discord) can take a certain amount of time. For example, with Damaged Sense or Crippled, the possessor would lose use of the sense or extremity immediately (though it wouldn't actually cease to work permanently for the host). On the other hand, it might take anywhere from a few hours to a day or two to "bulk up" to the level Obese requires. (This is why some Kyriotates or Shedim might prefer a host that has the same limitations as they do . . . it's much less obvious when they are possessed.) Last checked 5/31/05 Does a Kyriotate or Shedite know why they get bounced when they fail to possess someone? In general, yes. A failed possession roll is obvious to the possessor. If the subject forces them out, they can tell that has occured. If the subject is too "big," Forces-wise, they feel that, but not exactly how many Forces the victim has. Shedim can also tell that they were bounced because the subject wasn't human, but they can't tell exactly what the subject is. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a victim tell that a possession attempt has occured if it fails? Anyone who can consciously control his Essence (which includes celestials, Soldiers, Saints, undead, and ethereals) knows that an attempt has occured, but not from where it happened. Normal humans, Remnants, and the like might notice that something happened, but have no idea what (or they might ignore it as a passing emotion). Last checked 5/31/05 Why doesn't someone fix all those Remnants? This is a very complex question with a variety of reasons. Depending on who you ask in Heaven or Hell, you will get a different answer - or several, if you ask the right beings. Last checked 5/31/05 Do Remnants keep their Rites, Attunements, and resonances? Yes to Rites and Attunements (including anything they got for being Word-bound!) and no to resonances. Resonances are part of a celestials' innate nature . . . something that is blasted out of Remnants. Rites and Attunements, on the other hand, can be granted to anyone and so are retained. Few remnants have the coherent force of Will to make use of what they still have left, however. Last checked 5/31/05 If a Demon Prince grafts a Celestial Force onto a angel remnant, is the resulting celestial a demon? If the repairs can be done relatively easily (GM's decision), then the Remnant regains his former Choir, but may be dissonant or Discordant. Princes work with twisted Forces. More difficult cases, where few angelic Forces are left, will only produce a demon - and possibly a dissonance or Discordant one. Really difficult cases are essentially using the Remnant's remaining Forces to build a demon with, and hoping there will be some memory ovelap. Last checked 5/31/05 Can Remnants raise their Will, Perception or Celestial Forces by themselves? Celestial Forces, never. A GM may (but doesn't have to) allow a Remnant to get up to three points of Will and Perception total. If the character had some partial raises to Perception and Will before losing all its Celestial Forces, it usually gets to keep those, as well. Last checked 5/31/05 Can you Geas a Remnant? Old Geases still have force, and a Remnant could voluntarily agree to a new Geas, but they are otherwise immune to the Perception-based Need-reading that a Lilim must use before setting her Geas-hook. Last checked 5/31/05 Can I spend Essence when resisting with Will? Unless the GM specifically overrules it, any roll for resistance can be improved with Essence. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a resource that is "lost" during roleplaying (e.g., a vessel dies) be gotten back for free? By default, anything lost or destroyed (Artifacts, vessels, Roles, Forces, etc.) is generally just lost. This grim fate can be modified via good roleplaying. If you are doing well, in your Superior's eyes, he may give you an immediate gift and send you back (such as a new vessel to get you back into the game). If you are doing an average job, a replacement may be more grudging, or of lesser quality, or delayed several game sessions. If you are doing poorly, a free replacement is very unlikely. Most time, the replacement will be given as a reward (In Nomine, p. 202) at the end of the adventure, unless the character is truly doing a great job by their Superior's standards. Mind you, it's not in most Superiors' best interests to have a vessel-less minion wandering around their demenses. They should be down on Earth, doing bad/good! In this case, if a character doesn't have the points to buy a new vessel, one might be "loaned" with the expectation that it would be paid off in experience points at the end of the adventure. Last checked 5/31/05 Some Rites seem rather deadly to the performer. For example, how can angels of Jean perform the "two hours plugged into the mains" Rite? How come Belial's servants have to already be immune to fire to perform his 250-degree Rite? The performance of the Rite itself grants immunity during the duration of the Rite unless the Rite specifies otherwise. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a Renegade or Outcast still use his Rites? Technically? Yes. In practice? It would be a very bad idea for a Disfavored celestial to do that unless he wanted his (former) Superior to find him. Taking Essence from a Rite draws upon the Superior's Word and Essence reserves - and a Superior who is paying attention will be able to tell where that Essence is going! If the Superior is displeased, he can show up to explain this in person . . . For Rites that "just happen," such as the Game's automatic second Essence at sundown, the GM may request that a PC make an Intelligence (or IQ, in GURPS In Nomine) roll to refuse to accept that extra Essence. Or the GM may decide that's too much bookkeeping and just assume that the Disfavored celestial has rejected his former Master's Word sufficiently that he is in no danger of "accidentally" using a Rite. (It is also perfectly reasonable to assume, for simplicity, that shattering or cracking a Heart removes the link to the Superior's Rites; that's not canon (see the Game Master's Guide's discussions of Rites), but it's a fine house rule.) Last checked 1/23/08 Roles and Status How do humans buy Roles? The rules on p. 72 seem to be wrong. They are indeed inconsistent; please use the following (some repeated from p. 43): Humans don't buy a Role. They can buy levels of Status/x at the cost of [(Status - 1) * 2] with the first level of Status being automatically added for free. In other words, each level of Status beyond the free one costs two points. The cost of a Role for Celestials is the [(Role's Status * Role's Level) / 2], rounded up if necessary. Last checked 5/31/05, but not yet double-checked against errata or the second printing. Why don't I have my books right where I need them when the child naps? Can a celestial in an animal vessel have a Role? Officially, no (p.43). But if you want to do something weird in your campaign, go for it. The cost is the same for human Roles. It is very hard to justify a Role above Status/1 however! Remember that Roles are based on how much reality and influence you have in human society - it would take a high-profile animal to count for a Role. See also the Liber Servitorum Last checked 5/31/05 How do the undead buy Status? The same way humans do (p. 43). The problem is that people who are known or believed to be dead lose their Status. ("You ain't Elvis - Elvis is dead!") Undead creatures should keep their deceased nature from being known as best they can. Last checked 5/31/05 What is the limit on Status? Status can go no higher than the Role level. Last checked 5/31/05 How do Falling and redemption affect Roles? There is no effect. Some Roles may become unusable or unpalateable after this change in status, but they will still be available! Of course, Judgment and the Game, at the least, will tend to take action to secure such a "compromised" Role - such as by capturing the turncoat (if possible) and plonking some other celestial into a lookalike vessel. Or just leaving a dead body somewhere. If a Role is destroyed by one's former side, the points are not returned - though a Superior might grant an equivalent one to a PC. Last checked 5/31/05 The cost for a Role/1, Status/1 celestial is the same as for a Role/2 Status/1. Is this correct? Yeah. It's just an artifact of the formula and nothing serious to worry about. If a PC is developing a Role, it should start with 1/1 (at the cost of one point because of the rounding), and then work up to a Role/2 (at no cost other than time and effort). Last checked 5/31/05 When do Saints regenerate Essence? If a Celestial smacks one, is there disturbance? Except for their special abilities and knowledge, Saints and Bodhisattvas (as they're more-often called in Heaven) should be treated just like humans or Soldiers. So they regenerate at noon and Symphonic disturbance will occur if a celestial injures or kills one. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a Shedite possess a Saint? Yup. But Saints are generally more aware of their spiritual and mental space than most humans and are more likely to recognize that they're being tampered with and get Will rolls to push the demon out. They're also frequently Blessed, which gives them a very strong will - see the Corporeal Player's Guide. What happens to a Saint who succumbs to his fate while on Earth? Saints cannot Fall, so to speak, but some have become so corrupted that upon suffering corporeal death, they have simply vanished. They don't appear in Heaven or Hell, but some theorize that they are yanked to the Upper Heavens or simply dissolve into the Symphony. (See the Corporeal Player's Guide, p. 88) What's the maximum level for skills? Normally six, but animals can go higher to represent natural abilities such as a keen sense of smell for Tracking - or the GM can simply assign a bonus, depending on the GM's sense of aesthetics. Last checked 5/31/05 Should Large Weapons have specialties like Ranged Weapons and Small Weapons do? Last checked 5/31/05 When can I combine Acrobatics skill with Dodge? "May sometimes be combined" means that it can be used when appropriate for the situation . . . moving your whole body out of the way of a relatively slow-moving attack. Avoiding the telephone pole that is swinging toward your character. Getting out of the way of that rampaging elephant. Ducking behind cover when the grenade goes off. Additionally, you must use a Full Dodge (i.e., blow your whole action) to do this. If the situation is appropriate, add your Acrobatics Level to your Dodge target number. (Some GMs will allow players to use this Super-Dodge against any attack, even quick ones like bullets. More power to them.) Last checked 5/31/05, and I should really dig up my second printing to double-check it. Who do Soldiers serve? And what powers do they gain thereby? Two different parts of the text (p. 32 and p. 190) seem to have conflicting ideas about this. Soldiers serve a side - Heaven or Hell. They are directly supervised by a Superior's Servitor. It is possible for a Soldier to receive the Servitor Attunements of the Superior they are serving under (directly or indirectly). So they could directly serve Joe the Angel, but get Joe's Superior's Attunements. (The occasional Soldier ends up serving a Ethereal power, as well.) Laurence is charged with coordinating the Soldiers of God on earth. He makes his Servitor Attunements available to them (regardless of who else they may serve or whatever religion they may be). Does this give the Soldiers of God and edge? Well, yes, but they need it since they are rather outnumbered. Soldiers do not normally get Distinctions or Choir/Band Attunements. Last checked 5/31/05 Does a Soldier using a Song cause Symphonic disturbance? All focused Essence expenditures cause disturbance, though the source is usually unrecognizeable as angelic, demonic, or human. The default use of Essence by untrained humans does not cause disturbance. Last checked 5/31/05 In some supplements, there are Soldiers who have less than 2 Corporeal Forces. Doesn't this break the rules? In some circumstance, a human can have six Forces before they are recruited as a Soldier (see the Corporeal Player's Guide). In this case, the restriction doesn't apply. If a human with five Forces is recruited as a soldier, then the sixth Force they gain will be a Corporeal one if they only had one. (This rule is relaxed for Dream Soldiers who will spend a lot of time on the Ethereal Plane, and other intellectually or spiritually oriented Superiors might make exceptions from time to time as well.) Last checked 5/31/05 Does Essence spent to improve the chances of a Song to succeed also improve other aspects of a Song? For example, Song of Charm's range is determined by the amount of Essence spent and it specifically mentions that " . . . like all skill rolls, each point of Essence spent (beyond the first) also adds +1 to succeed". Each extra Essence spent either improves a Song's effects (if the Song allows that) or increases the chance of success, not both. Last checked 5/31/05 It says that the Singing skill helps with some Ethereal Songs. Which ones? None . . . in the main rulebook. There are some in the Liber Canticorum. Is magic (magick/magik) just another name for Songs? This depends on who you ask. People who understand the Symphony tend to disparage the term "magic" - there are Songs, and there is sorcery, and the hocus pocus of stage magic can't be made "real." More relaxed people let "magic" stand in for either or both - and get griped at by the detail-oriented ones. Last checked 5/31/05 If a Song is known at level 5 or 6, can the character do the Song and still have time for other actions? Nope. It just means that they are very quick with the Song and don't have to worry about being tied up, gagged, etc. Simple actions (i.e., ones that don't require skill rolls) such as running or driving down a road (no dangerous conditions or combat allowed!) are possible when one knows the Song so that gestures are not necessary. Maintaining a normal conversation is possible, if you don't have to speak to activate the Song, as well. The GM may allow Virtuosos some better tricks, though. See the Liber Canticorum. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a Superior give a Song to a human? Yes, but that's not very efficient. Usually, the Superior would grant an Ethereal Attunement (this is what Dream Soldiers get) or a Celestial Attunement to grant the ability to use the appropriate songs. See the Corporeal Player's Guide. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a Song's effects reach across planes? Unless the description says so, no. Last checked 5/31/05 Is a person "Stunned" as per the game mechanic (p. 62) when under the Song of Charm? Last checked 5/31/05 Is there any way to resist Song of Charm? No resistance. Awful, ain't it? Last checked 5/31/05 Why are higher levels of this Song less accurate than lower levels? It has to do with the length. The longer claws do much more damage, but are unwieldy, hence the lower accuracy. You can always use the smaller claws if you want a better chance to hit and are willing to have reduced damage. Last checked 5/31/05 Is the Corporeal Song of Harmony "AoE" or "instant debuff" In other words, does it affect an area for its duration, like the Celestial Song of Shields (or Corporeal Song of Silence), or does it affect only the people in its area at the time of performance, like the Song of Thunder? The written rules do not say! However, the intent (and name of the Song -- it's not the Song of Beating Up People With Your Thugs Held In Reserve, or Submission, etc.) strongly suggest that the Song affects an area. If you enter the area while the Song is in effect, it will affect you normally. If you leave the area, its effects will fade. (Fleeing the area in order to turn and fight should not cause dissonance in Servitors of War or the War -- they're not trying to escape the battle, just the anti-violence-effects.) Last checked 11/2/08 Can the Corporeal Song of Healing be used for any corporeal object? Yes, it can be used to heal any sort of corporeal damage. Last checked 5/31/05 What is the range of the Celestial Song of Motion? The range given in the description applies to both the final destination of the object and its initial distance from the performer. Last checked 5/31/05 Numious Corpus Numious Corpus: Is this one Song or many? Do I have to buy them all? Each item under Numious Corpus is a seperate Song and must be paid for individually. Last checked 5/31/05 Does knowing more than one of these Songs give you a check digit bonus on the other Songs? Last checked 5/31/05 Numious Corpus: What is the Degree of Disturbance for this Song? Beyond the Essence required, none. Last checked 5/31/05 If you switch vessels, can you still make the enhancements appear and disappear within the duration of the Song? Last checked 5/31/05 What is your speed when you use Numious Corpus: Wings? The speed on p. 82 seems very slow. This needs to be put into errata, if it isn't. As per the Liber Canticorum, use the rules on p. 65, so the speed for Winged movement is [Agility X 10] yards per round. This makes top speed around 50 mph and average speed 25 mph. Last checked 5/31/05 If you have a Kyriotate with Numious Corpus (Claws, for example) on, does it apply to one host or all of them? It only applies to one, but you can switch which one it applies to by making it vanish from one host and then add it to another. Last checked 5/31/05 With Numious Corpus: Acid, does the damage when you are in celestial form affect beings not in celestial form? Nope. The target must be in celestial form as well. Last checked 5/31/05 What happens when a Kyriotate or Shedite uses Song of Possession on someone? They get the benefits of both their resonance and the Song for the duration of the Song. After that, treat it as a normal resonance-based possession. This means that a Kyriotate/Shedite could have two chances to possess the same host. (Note that it allows Shedim to possess non-human hosts, but they'll still be booted when the Song duration ends.) Last checked 5/31/05 What happens if the body dies while a possessor is in residence? This is rather tricky and has several permutations. If the possessor has a body to return to (the usual case), they simply bounce back to it, but take Mind Hits equal to the "excess" damage it took to kill the body being possessed. If the singer has no body to go back to, they are treated as if they had just experienced death (Trauma for celestials, and death for humans). Of course, Malakim, Kyriotates, and Shedim have their own special rules involving vessel death. The POSSESSEE, on the other hand, is in a bizarre state. Unless the GM wants to do something fun, humans die and go their final reward (whatever it would normally be). Celestials, due to their abscence, is spared Trauma because they weren't in residence at the time. They feel a distant loss, but that's the extent of it. What happens if a celestial's vessel dies within the confines of a Celestial Song of Seals? The celestial's being isn't coherent enough to be trapped by the Seal. It goes to whatever the normal destination is for a celestial of its nature (i.e., to the Heart, or to Limbo). Last checked 5/31/05 Does the Song of Shields work both ways? For example, can the protected person attack through it? All three shields work both ways . . . a good defense, but hampering at times. Last checked 5/31/05 What is blocked by the Corporeal Song of Shields? Any harmful corporeal effect. Yes, this includes having a mountain dropped on you, poison gas, nuclear explosions, lasers, etc. This is a miracle and is not subject to mundane limitations. As a miracle, it still allows fresh air in, does not block harmless sound going in either direction, or reasonable amounts of light. Last checked 5/31/05 With Sorcery, you can only summon a spirit/demonling/demon with a vessel. So does the summoned critter have to own its own vessel, or can the sorcerer create the vessel for it? Any vessel involved will be one that the spirit/whatever has, not created by the summoner. (House rules and/or future canon may have rules for sorcerers creating flawed pseudo-vessels.) "Random" summonings are assumed to call a being that already has a vessel (and some creature, such as demonlings, don't need vessels on Earth). If a named being without a vessel is called on Earth, the summoning will fail. As always, the GM can allow these to work if special preparations are made! Last checked 5/31/05 What happens to a demon in celestial form in a divine Tether? It starts frying, exposed to the concentrated, focused light of Heaven - much like a bug under a magnifying glass. Last checked 5/31/05 How are Body Hits for undead calculated? They are calculated the same as for celestials, with their "vessel level" equal to their Corporeal Forces. They keep Toughness, if any. (Corporeal Player's Guide, p. 91.) Last checked 5/31/05 Do Geases (old or new) work on the undead? Yes. They have twisted souls that are bound into their corporeal bodies, but the soul is still there. The exception is for Zombis created by the Samingan Zombi Attunement - the soul upon which the Geases were placed is fled, and the body is nothing but walking meat. Failed Mummies have the original soul bound into them, and so Geases should remain. Last checked 5/31/05 What happens to a vessel when it's killed? The vessel remains. While no longer usable as a vessel, it can still be used to track down the original owner (using the proper Songs or other abilities). If it is recovered or destroyed in time, any Role associated with that vessel can be salvaged by making a new vessel identical to the first. Otherwise the Role is lost because the person is "dead." The vessel is identical to human to all but the most painstaking analysis. It's up to the GM to decide whether genetic investigators or other 21st century sleuths can tell the difference between a dead vessel and a dead human. (Aside from the possible lack of stomach contents . . . ) Last checked 5/31/05 Can you get a new vessel for free when an old one is killed? This depends entirely on the GM. In some campaigns replacement is free and others it will cost full character points to get another vessel. The Game Master's Guide goes into this in more detail. Last checked 5/31/05 Can you give a Limbo-formed vessel Charisma? Remaking an old vessel (that had Charisma) is allowed. If it didn't have it, GMs can impose whatever conditions they think reasonable or disallow it altogether. Last checked 5/31/05 Can you improve the level of a vessel? It requires the intervention of a Superior (or, possibly, an ethereal god). Last checked 5/31/05 Can you selectively leave things behind when going from corporeal to celestial form? Things that are too heavy are automatically left behind (p. 54). The rest is up to the GM. Here's a suggestion: for each discrete object that you wish to leave behind (i.e., it will fall to the ground when the body vanishes) requires one extra round of concentration. For those who don't have time for that, ALL corporeal items can be dropped as a unit, taking only the vessel itself. Discrete items are anything that is easily quantifiable as a unit (a gun, a backpack, my wristwatch), not something more nebulous or encapsulated (the bullet in my leg, all the dirt in my clothing, the bugs in the bag of flour). Only a Superior can "sift" through a vessel that is not in use and remove (or add) items. Even the vessel's owner has to manifest it to make any changes! Last checked 5/31/05 How close to human are vessels? This is partially a GM's call (i.e., some GM's like to use vessels, especially older ones, that give humans some clue about the weirdness they are facing). Canonically, they have fingerprints, they sweat, they have DNA with the proper number of chromosomes, they're chemically identical to a normal human, etc. Now, since vessels don't require food and are immune to disease, a researcher might notice some slight anomolies (this person seems to be in perfect health, but their system is entirely free of any trace of food), but nothing outrageous. Last checked 5/31/05 Can a mechanic give Body hits back to an injured machine vessel? If the GM allows machine vessels, then a mechanic can fix them just as a doctor can help fix a normal vessel. Machine vessels can likewise be repaired by the Corporeal Song of Healing and the Song of Machines. Plus machine vessels might heal like other vessels. Last checked 5/31/05 Word Bound Can a Worded celestial grant Rites, Attunements, and Distinctions? Yes to Rites and Servitor Attunments unique to the Word. No to Distinctions and Choir/Band Attunements which depend on an Archangel's or Demon Prince's Word. If a Word-bound celestial becomes a Superior, then it can develop distinctions and Choir/Band Attunements of its own. See the Game Master's Guide for more details. Last checked 5/31/05 What happens to a Word-bound whose Word is in decline? The decline of a Word almost certainly leads to the decline of the Word-bound (as seen in Night Music, with the Old Guy). What once supported the celestial now becomes a drain as the being's essential energies go to support the Word rather than the other way around. This even applies to Archangels and Demon Princes! Normally the "cost" of such status is supplied automatically by the Word, but when the Word fails . . . The exact details of what happens to a weakened Superior are up to the GM. The Game Master's Guide discusses Words waxing and waning. Last checked 5/31/05 What kinds of Words are there? Vices, virtues, ideas, ideologies, causes, things of the world. There might be, in an upcoming supplement, an outline of Words that have been compiled based on Scholastic/Aristotelian theo/philosophy. There might not be. Last checked 5/31/05 Archangels and Princes seem to have much shorter Words, is this because they are more powerful? No, cooler. They got the world to call their abstract causes by one Word. Sort of like Cher. Last checked 5/31/05 Do Words get shorter (and more abstract) as the celestials influence increases? Possibly, but not necessarily. Celestials don't lightly change Words. They're more likely to be stripped of a Word than to change it. The Word you first get is you. You are uniquely tuned to it. To try to change it on your own goes against nature. You must promote the Word which is yours, not shop around for cooler one. Though you can aim for bigger Words which subsume the current one. Again, check out the Game Master's Guide. Last checked 5/31/05 Background Questions Are there more angels or demons? Lucifer's Forces were originally outnumberd 2 to 1 in the War and, one must presume, he lost more of his host than God did. Afterwards, though, he started creating new demons as fast as he could, as described on p. 155. The current situation seems to be that there are more demons than angels, but demons are generally weaker. Notice how scared the demon was in A Dark Dream when he heard an angel was in town? This is how a vast number of the infernal hordes feel about the average angel. Also, angels tend to work in teams. Last checked 5/31/05 If demons can't enter Heaven, but angels can go into Hell, why haven't all the angels gotten together and gone and kicked the demons' collective butts? Good question. And one that is asked at the highest levels of the angelic hierarchy (and the middle levels and probably all the way down to the bottom)! One answer is that fighting someone on their home territory, especially masters of deception and lies, is probably a bad idea tactically. Another answer is that they might lose the very thing they were fighting over: the souls of all those humans. Some celestials (on either side) don't give a hoot about humanity, but a whole lot do. And The Boss seems to care a great deal. Undoubtably, such a fight would have major consequences for those who inhabit the Earth. Last checked 5/31/05 Good and Evil aren't really mentioned in the book, what is all the fuss about then? (i.e. Why are the angels and demons fighting?) Angels are trying to follow God's plan to the best of their flawed perceptions. Demons are trying to chart their own course of selfishness which means, nearly by default, they have to work for Hell (the rebels' rebels are quickly hunted down and, at best, killed). Last checked 5/31/05 Do angels have free will? Do humans? This is purposely left as a question mark. Let the players figure it out. Last checked 5/31/05 What is the true status of religions in the world? You'll have to ask God, and God isn't talking. No one, neither human nor celestial, knows the exact Truth of whether God spoke directly to Moses, whether an Aspect of God became enfleshed in the person of Jesus, and whether God was influencing Gabriel to recite the Koran to Mohammed. OK, Yves might know the last one, but he isn't talking, either. This means that celestials, who almost all believe in the existence of - or have even met - the One God, are free to choose what they believe in with regard to God's inteventions in human history. In this regard, they're in the same boat with all of humanity . . . they have to trust in the reports of those humans who've claimed that they've had an encounter with God. And some of those celestials do espouse a belief in one of the monotheistic religions. And religious differences among celestials can be just as touchy as among humans. As far as the Pagan gods go, in the mind of most celestials, they are egomaniacal ethereal spirits who've abused humanity so that they can leech Essence from gullible worshippers. The "gods" have a different opinion, of course. Last checked 5/31/05 What is In Nomine's stance on Original Sin? How about indulgences? Original sin is a theological construct of certain Christian denominations to explain the broken state of the world. In In Nomine, we know this is because of demons and human cussedness. Sorry, no indulgences, either. Let's just say that the Heavenly network knows if you deserve to go there. Last checked 5/31/05 What are the Diabolicals' ultimate goals? That would be telling! But, seriously, each demon has its own unique - selfish - agenda. They work for Demon Princes because the alternative is to be hunted down and destroyed (a risk some demons choose to take). Demon Princes have their own set of goals and serve Lucifer for the same reason their underlings serve them (fear and the opportunities available if you suck up to the right people). No one is quite sure what Lucifer wants . . . and that's the way he likes it. But Ultimate Power is usually a safe guess . . . Last checked 5/31/05 Are there only Seraphim on the Seraphim council? The Council is MOSTLY Seraphim. It also includes the Archangels, of course. But in addition, there are other, very ancient, angels of other Choirs. Number not specified, but there is always at least one non-Archangel representative present from each of the other six major Choirs, that the Council should never make a decision without the wisdom contained in the other facets of divinity. Last checked 5/31/05 Are angels and demons the hidden masters of a helpless humanity? Is this another 'humans are helpless pawn of unknowable forces' game? Hardly! The celestials (on either side), are doing their best to influence humanity toward their way of thinking, but most of their efforts are spent combating each other. Humanity with its wonderful free will can choose its own destiny . . . or fate. Last checked 5/31/05 Top of page	http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/faq/	<urn:uuid:f46fdd90-1786-4640-b30f-931af4d277e4>	en	0.945505	0.612461
Tactics of the rich By Philip Brewer on 12 April 2009 (Updated 24 April 2009) 42 comments Photo: Philip Brewer There are things the rich do that working class and middle class folks don't. Some of them--living off the return on capital rather than wages or salary--are only available to the rich. Others--seeking a first-rate education for your kids, working for yourself rather than others--are things that ordinary folks do to the extent that they can, but their ability is limited. Even so, it's worth learning the tactics of the rich and applying them where possible. Some of the tactics of the wealthy are unsavory. One key tactic is to share as little as possible of the profits of the enterprise. This is why working for yourself is such an important tactic--the owners and managers are in a position to grab the lion's share. Put your suppliers in the position of competing with one another for the lowest price, put your workers in the position of competing with the unemployed for the lowest wage, and pocket the savings (via dividends if you're an owner, via bonuses if you're a manager). Others, though--tactics like frugality, living within your means, avoiding debt (except to invest in a money-earning enterprise), and working hard--are positive virtues, or at least neutral. (And they're generally the ones that lead to wealth creation. The others are largely about wealth preservation.) These tactics are not kept secret, exactly, but various factors keep them largely out of view from ordinary folks. The biggest is simply that consumption is interesting while frugality is dull. So, buying a yacht makes the news, whereas driving a 10-year-old car one more year doesn't get noticed. The result is that popular culture shows the excesses of super-wealthy but not the ordinary lifestyles of the ordinary wealthy. But there are way more of the latter than there are of the former. Not a level playing field There are a lot of ways in which the deck is stacked in favor of the rich. The advantage I mentioned at the beginning--owners and managers being able to skim off an outsized share of the profits--is a huge one, but there are others: • The legal system heavily favors the rich. • The financial system offers high quality services to the wealthy (often for free), while the poor make do with expensive check-cashing services and payday lenders. • The rich are in a much better position to wait for a good deal--which gets them lower interest rates on loans, lower rents, lower insurance rates, and better prices on just about everything. • And then there are simple social realities--affluent neighborhoods are safer, stores that cater to the affluent have more and better choices (and often cheaper ones as well), schools in affluent neighborhoods are better and safer. Knowledge can help level it If you know enough, though, most of these advantages of the wealthy are available to the poor as well: • Anybody can start a small business. The internet has vastly increased the range of options that require almost no capital (and has made a wide range of formerly expensive services available cheap or free). This mean that anybody can work for themselves rather than others. • Anybody can be frugal and live within their means, as long as they don't assume that they're entitled to some particular standard of living. • Anybody can avoid debt. More important, anybody can understand the difference between productive debt (invested to earn the money to pay itself off) and unproductive debt (spent on consumption). • Anybody can do the research to find the good public schools. The affluent have a lot more choices, but you only need to find one affordable place to live in a safe neighborhood with good schools. • Anyone (even people with garnishments) can open a bank account and quit using the check-chasing places. • Anyone can be patient and refuse to take a bad deal--which will, over time, get you the same good prices that the rich get. It takes time and effort to learn the tricks and pitfalls, and this is where the children of the affluent get their biggest leg up: They learn these things from their parents and their friends' parents, from their classmates and teachers and neighbors. They also generally reach adulthood with at least a little capital (instead of student loan debts). But you can learn these things too. It's one reason for reading Wise Bread. Average: 3.5 (2 votes) Your rating: None 42 discussions Add New Comment This test helps prevent automated spam submissions. Guest's picture No longer sure of this strategy My wife and I have done all these things. We work for ourselves, we save, we have zero debt (including owning our home free and clear), and we invest rather than consume (for example, we drive an almost 20 year old-car and pocket/invest the savings). And yet, with what I've learned over the last 10 years I can safely predict that we will retire poor...or even destitute. Such is the extent of the stacking of the deck by the super-rich during the last 3 decades. I have come to understand that unless you have the ability to generate large amounts of income, moderate wealth is not safe with such greedy psychopaths controlling the society. In effect, you must be able to join their group or suffer the consequences. So, the friends that I used to look down on. The ones that lived for today. The ones that took money out of their 401K to buy a boat or a shiny new car. The ones that owe money on the house and to the CC. I am starting to wonder if they had the right idea all along. I don't know if they did, but I would certainly not advise anyone in my position to count on anything. Not as long as the Joseph Cassanos run the world and I see no reason to believe they will not. Guest's picture I grew up in a fairly affluent area. People who really had money, multiple homes, annual trips to Europe and country club memberships don't throw money around on bling type consumer items. Most live fairly understated lives, they might have expensive items but they are not the in your face look i'm rich items. That is how they stay rich, not wasting huge sums of money on every tacky overpriced item that comes along. I would rather live in an apartment or tiny house in an affluent area than a larger home in a not so great area. You get better services, better (and cheaper) shopping, and lots of things that are basically free. Schools are better, parks are better, those communities usually have more community amenities all basically for free. Your insurance will be quite a bit cheaper too. We moved from an urban lower income zip code to one that was mostly higher end homes and our insurance rates dropped about 30% over night. Guest's picture Comment #2 hit the nail on the head. Comment #1 needs a beer. Guest's picture +1 ...this article needs a beer. Guest's picture Oh, Philip ... the rich do unsavory things? Let's not discriminate - the poor do many unsavory things. You say, "One key tactic is to share as little as possible of the profits of the enterprise." Perhaps you've never been in business for yourself, so I will chalk this comment up to ignorance. The quickest way to wealth is to help others become more successful and to reach their potential. Certainly there are businesses that don't share the wealth, but the successful businesses do reward producers extremely well. It makes sense. There are many in this country today that are screaming for the heads of the rich. Parallels the thinking of the French Revolution. J. Paul Getty once pointed out that you could divide all the wealth up and distribute in equal portions to everybody. In one week's time, the same people as before would be the wealthy ones. Human nature isn't about to change any time soon. Guest's picture Well stated. I'm not sure if the article was "showing us how to become rich", or simply villifying the rich. If readers will take one lesson to heart, let it be this: Time is the only real currency and the only real investment. The wealthy understand this and use time to their advantage. Months, years and even decades are fertile ground in which to grow your assets. Time is your friend, but it requires patience and a "never panic" attitude. The poor see time in a different light. They associate dates with when they'll get their next paycheck or when bills are due. They regret the past and dread tomorrow. Look at the Dollar. One dollar today is not worth as much as it was yesterday, and it's value will change tomorrow. The number printed on it is arbitrary. What is important is how much of your time was invested in acquiring that dollar. You want to buy a new plasma TV. The cost is $5000. You can get the money easily, or perhaps you even have it saved already. Now let's say you make $20/Hr. Your take-home is likely closer to $15/Hr after taxes. That purchase will cost you 333 Hours and 20 Minutes of your time. That's just over 8 weeks of 40 hour shifts. Before asking "Is it worth my money?", ask "Is it worth my time?" If you instead took that money and invested it, you could easily get a 6% annual rate. At the end of that term, you still have your $5000, but with a bonus of $300 that you spent no time on at all. That's like having 2½ payed days vacation at work. You're not actually working, but you're still receiving income for it. Ideally, you want to reinvest this money. However, If you absolutely need the TV, buy it from the time-free interest. You'll have a greater appreciation for money and eventually a lot more of it. Once people learn to start thinking of money as time instead of paper, they tend to do much better. Live cheaply for 10 years and bank every spare penny you have. All of a sudden, the interest alone becomes a second income. You can easily use it to pay your bills. So, you have your new TV and you want a premium HD cable or satellite package that costs $70/month. That's 5 hours a month of your job you're basically working for free. Instead, figure $70/Month is $840/year. Put away $14,000 in savings at that 6% rate and the interest will cover that bill for you. Just hanging on to that money until retirement will continue you fund you $70/Month that can be used to better the quality of your life. Every time you want a service that incurs another bill, ask "How much do I have to invest at my current interest rate to pay for this without touching my income?" Save that much money and start living off of your interest one bill at a time. Guest's picture I have to second Kelja. Idiot middle managers and spoiled 20-somethings think that hoarding profits makes you rich. The rich business owners would tell you that rewarding the hard workers with bonuses and raises is the best way to get rich and grow your business. The richest would also mention getting rid of negative-nancy's, lazy kids who try to get by doing as little as possible and the bad-mood-mongers helps tenfold. I encourage everyone with something to offer to start a business, but keep in mind that your staff are your business. They are the only way you'll succeed. Guest's picture I really liked this article.. I agree that there are lot of ways in which one can get rich and frugality is the most imprtant of it. Working for oneself, paying yourself first are some of other ways . But most importantly spending less than what you earn alongwith living below ones means are the virtues of rich as is very nicely elaborated in The millionaire next door book. Guest's picture Common Sense Will Not Kill You >>>I have to second Kelja. Idiot middle managers and spoiled 20-somethings think that hoarding profits makes you rich.<<< Hoarding is different than keeping them to yourself. You can keep profits to yourself and reinvest them in "stuff" that will make you more profits--all the time sharing as little as possible with your workers and society (the tax man). For example, southern plantation owners became rich by exploiting slave labor and keeping the profits from their "workers"? When a company moves a plant to an underdeveloped country where labor is a fraction of what it is here, don't they get richer by sharing less of the profits with labor? Your view of how to succeed in business is naive. The only time you reward employees is when you have no other choice--when they are uniquely trained and educated for a particular job, for example. Even then, a business will look to change that situation because labor is the first cost they seek to reduce. And we should believe this why? Because it was Getty who said it? You realize he could have easily proved his hypothesis had he cared to, but I don't think he believed it any more than he believed in Santa Claus. The uniquely American idea that rich people are all geniuses who contribute mightily to our society is what has us now giving hundreds of billions to the same people who ruined our economy, in order that they might now fix it. "If anyone knows how, it's the geniuses who ruined it," the thinking goes. The fact is, rich people are a cross-segment of the general population. They hold no special powers--other than their money, which brings them influence and worldly power. They are not any smarter than anybody else (see Madoff investors) and once the money gets into the 3rd generation, they are usually considerably dumber and less motivated than the average citizen. Guest's picture Kelja - do you know math? Phil is correct about sharing the wealth. Paying as little as possible for labor is what every business does -- they hire from the labor market, at the lowest price possible. That is equivalent to "share as little as possible." Businesses always have some people who are paid well -- those who contribute to the productive assets of the company, and after them, those who contribute to the income. Then there are those who are paid poorly. That's generally those who perform services or routine maintenance for the above. Those paid worst are those who do maintenance on depreciating assets, like buildings. Guest's picture Not all wealthy people are crooks. Instead of "Some of the tactics of the wealthy are unsavory", it should say "The tactics of some of the wealthy are unsavory". Also, some 'advantages' are simply natural consequences of having more. I am recently laid off, but thanks to my good financial habits while working, I can take my time to look for a job I will enjoy, and not have to accept whatever available just to make ends meet. So yeah, I am "in a much better position to wait for a good deal." Fred Lee's picture Fred Lee You state many obvious points, as well as ones we don't give enough thought to. Very thorough and informative, not to mention thought provoking, as we're seeing firsthand. Thanks for the advice. Philip Brewer's picture Everybody sometimes does unsavory things--rich and poor alike. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. The idea that owners and managers jump at the chance to share the profits of the enterprise with their workers, though, I think is provably false. More important, the degree to which the profits of the enterprise are shared with the workers has undergone clear shifts over the past hundred years--moving sharply in favor of owners in the 1920, shifting back to workers from the 1930s through the 1950s, and then moving back in favor of the owners and managers in the 1980s and 1990s. Of course, everyone is an individual. Some owners and managers don't try to squeeze every penny out of every business. Unfortunately, the pressures of the market win out over good intentions: A business that pays above-market wages will quickly be driven out of business by its competitors. All of which, I think, is beside the point that a lot of the advantages that rich people have come from knowledge rather than wealth, and that even poor people can acquire the knowledge. Guest's picture In a sense we are all in business for ourselves. We accept a payment from an entity in exchange for the perceived value of the services we provide. We compete (sometimes globally) with others for this work and that competition factors into the price we can command and the compensation we enjoy. Typically the more unique/irreplaceable your abilities are, the higher your compensation. It's not perfect, but it's basically the way it works. Being a solopreneur offers one very little leverage when it comes to effort. The person who is self-employed with no leverage is basically Now if they focus on providing greater value (maybe through specialization or deeper skill sets), more highly compensated services (movie stars make obscene money as solopreneurs) or seek to expand their reach through a leveraged mechanism (ie- writing a book, giving seminars or hiring employees), they can go beyond the solo level. Last week I was talking to the owner of a new restaurant in my home town. He took money from his 401k and used it to create this establishment. He works a regular job AND he manages the restaurant. This place employs roughly 20 people. From what I can ascertain, this owner is taking all the risk and working extremely hard to achieve a dream. In my mind... if he succeeds, he deserves to earn much more than anyone he employs. And, he has every right to pay the dishwasher what is market rate. Now, because his focus is on Wine, then maybe he'll pay above market rate for his dishwasher but expect that dishwasher to put our spotless glasses. The bottom line is, you can focus OUT THERE; on other people, what you perceive is wrongfully acquired wealth, etc, or you can focus on building, living and achieving your dream by providing high value to the world around you. Maybe you are discouraged and think you will be poor. Watch Slumdog Millionaire and gain both perspective and hope. Read "Unique Ability" from www.strategiccoach.com and discover what you were meant to do. And, as Philip states... stop being a consumer and become a provider. Aside from the questionable "Elite" or Large Enterprise wealth acquired in "unsavory" ways, it's still true that most of the wealthy in this country are small business owners who earned their wealth through risk, hard work, determination and providing jobs for others. Or, go to work today and realize it's your choice. It's still a free country with tremendous opportunity. Guest's picture Thank you, MJB, for pointing out what Philip Brewer seems to have forgotten. Mr. Brewer, I'm afraid you've been swept up in the 'class envy/hatred' some of our politicians are fomenting to divert voters from concentrating on the real problem - economy-killing government policies. What, exactly, is the difference between an 'unsavory tactic' and frugality? If I shop carefully for the best deal, as you recommend, wouldn't that include shopping for the best deal in suppliers and employees, if I'm a business owner? Do you share your own profits and offer to pay extra at the grocery store or to the plumber who fixes your pipes? If not, why call a business owner 'unsavory' for behaving exactly as you urge us to - frugally? The biggest unsavory tactic I see business owners engaging in today is going hat in hand to the government to absorb their losses and minimize their risks. But at the same time, it's hard to blame them for doing that, since government has sucked up so much of the wealth of the country into its own coffers, and regulated the rest of it so vigorously, that it is hard to manage a big business without being at the mercy of the politicians. If having control over vast wealth is the source of great power, who is more wealthy: Bill Gates, who controls about $40 Billion (with a B) IN TOTAL WEALTH, or the team of Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, who control about $3.5 Trillion (with a T) PER YEAR? Obama/Pelois/Reid burn through the equivalent Bill Gates's AND Warren Buffett's total fortunes roughly EVERY WEEK. @CommonSenseWillNotKillYou, 'society' is not the same as the tax man. Society is not the same as the government. The government is a PART of society, but not the only part. The frequent confusion of community/society/country with government is proof positive that our schools have abandoned teaching anything about the philosophies of our country's founders. I cringe every time I hear someone talk about the President and/or Congress 'running the country'; that idea, commonly accepted today, is so contrary to our Constitution that the document might just as well be put through the paper shredder. Guest's picture Edgar A. I suspect that the same thought has been stated by others. It's the familiar idea of the meritocracy applied strictly to wealth accumulation. Looked at from the opposite end, it's the idea that the poor deserve to be poor. But do people actually believe that redistributing wealth would have no lasting effect since the same meritorious people would get it all back in no time? If so, why is the proposition resisted so strongly? I suspect it's because people don't actually believe any such thing. They've got the money and they want to hang onto it because they think that depending on the way things shake out, somebody else will end up with it next time. I suspect that poor people tend not to like the idea, paradoxically for much the same reason. They expect to get rich by winning the lottery and know that if their wealth is redistributed, it's unlikely they'll win the lottery again. I don't know of any real tests of the idea, but the movie Trading Places examined it. The general conclusion, as far as I remember, was that the poor guy when switched with the privileged guy did fine, while the formerly privileged guy sank. Later, by joining forces, the two of them triumphed over the old, rich guys that set up the test. Guest's picture Common Sense Will Not Kill You @AnnJo: You've been reading too much Ayn Rand and listening to too many talking points. If you look at the revolving door of politics and big biz, you might realize that there is no difference between our government and the monied interests. Hating on one and admiring the other is schizoid. Also, did you really write this??? Just wow! Cognitive dissonance cubed. Guest's picture AnnJo appears on other boards, with the same far-right talking points each and every time. She adds the wealth of three democrats to make a point, as if all republcians are regular "Joes." The RNC has paid posters. I am not sure if she is one, but it is odd that she admitted to only having to work 10 hours a week on another board. I cancelled everything from Wisebread except for Brewer's blog wanting to escape such far-right talking points. Guest's picture wildgif - Yes, a business has to pay as little as possible for it's resources, including its employees. I don't disagree. My point is that businesses have to pay the going rate for their employees. The more valuable the person's skill and work ethic is to the organization, the more that employee can demand. You get to sell your services to the highest bidder. If your skill is sweeping the floor and one business is willing to pay minimum wage and another will pay an extra few dollars and benefits - where will you go? common sense - I quoted Getty because he is using common sense. Some, a few, in society have the skills and motivation to rise to the top. They are the 'creatives', the producers, the doers. They represent a small percentage of the population. Without these people, society would be stagnant. Witness what happens when they are wiped out as happened in the Soviet Republic. I don't believe the rich are necessarily geniuses. High intellect isn't the main indicator of success. The biggest determinant for success in business, or life in general, is a growth mindset. And, that's something that can be developed in every person. Don't blame your success or failure on others!!! Guest's picture I find it sad that the present administration is stoking the fires of class envy. Unfortunately, I believe our society is headed for another Revolution. It won't be like our first American Revolution but, alas, more along the lines of the French or Russian Revolutions. Guest's picture Glen Beck, commentators on CNBC, O'Reilly are the ones that have been stocking class warfare for time. Calling people who are behind on their mortgages losers is class warfare. Reagan also played the game of class warfare with terms such as "welfare queen." Guest's picture @CommonSenseEtc., I haven't read Ayn Rand in decades (and can't claim to have ever read John Galt's speech in full), but I do re-read the Constitution and Declaration every year, and various of the Federalist Papers every few years. I commend them to you. Curious how you automatically assume that those who disagree with you can't think for themselves! Or is that projection? There is one big difference between government and monied interests. The former has a monopoly on the legal use of force. If I choose not to give any of my money to Bill Gates, there's absolutely nothing he can do about it except refuse to give me the latest Office package. If I choose not to give my money to the government, it will seize my property, put me in jail, and shoot me if I resist. As for your psychiatric diagnosis of me, you rely on unwarranted assumptions. I neither hate government nor admire big business as a whole. They are both collections of people acting in their own self-interests, just like everybody else. For the reason stated above, though, I do have more trepidation about the ability of a massive government to harm me than any particular big business. Guest's picture Too bad MJB isn't right. He says, "Typically the more unique/irreplaceable your abilities are, the higher your compensation. It's not perfect, but it's basically the way it works." I'm arguably one of the best Esperanto-speakers in the country. And I'm almost certainly the best Esperanto-speaking Macintosh Unix sysadmin-capable professor of science education in the world. And yet my compensation has not kept pace with my uniqueness. Dean Baker argues regularly that a big part of leveraging big compensation under the current regulatory framework has been the ability of the privileged to restrict competition in some fields (white-collar work) while allowing others (labor) to compete globally. He wrote a good rant recently in the Boston Review: Free Market Myth: Regulation is everywhere. Let’s choose who benefits. Guest's picture I've known three wealthy people. All started with nothing, worked very hard all their lives, reinvested profits, and took care of others. The first, an uncle, took enormous, calculated to be sure, business risks. Not many of us trust our judgement or think as globally as that. He still painted his own garage at 92. We might look to him as one of the "wealthy" that people envy, but I would never put myself in those kinds of circles or under those kinds of pressures or even think on that kind of scale. He lived well, but well below his means. The other was a house painter. He made it a point to finish a job or room before he cleaned his tools to go home. So if it took an extra hour on one house, he was fresh to go to a second one the next morning. He never really retired and lived in the same house he had purchased during WW2 on his soldier's pay for his parents. He lived very modestly, gave quietly and generously to many, had enough to cover his needs into old age and pass wealth onto his children. They live just as he had. The third was our son's physical therapist. She is still seeing clients into her eighties and is as fit as a fifty year old. She was careful wih her money, packed her lunch, dressed simply, used simple exercise equipment in a modest rented space. She saved what she made and has enough for any contingency. On the weekends she lives in NYC and goes to the symphony. The common threads are being self employed, working hard throughout life, and being wise with finances along the way. That's something many of us can do. More often than not though, our downfall is blowing our cash on piddling things along the way. Guest's picture Steve Brewer, you said, Esperanto? You're joking, right? No one pays anyone for speaking a made-up language no one else speaks. Perhaps you are unique, Steve, but your skills simply are not in demand. You might consider developing skills that people need and want - that is, if you want to be paid more. Guest's picture I'm the best one-eared, mono-visioned,blue-eyed, sized 13 Wide footed, salesman on the planet! Guest's picture Philip Brewer's picture ... I thought I ought to mention that Steve Brewer is my brother. He does speak Esperanto better than I do, but I'm working on catching up. In any case, I think his point is well taken: The uniqueness of your capabilities has little to do with the remuneration that you can expect. However, before pointing at the "market" as the inevitable arbitrator of wages and salaries, be sure too observe just how much power relationships influence the matter. It's well worth reading the Dean Baker article he links to, which persuasively lays out the case that all sorts of things that are thought of as property rights can be instructively analyzed as government regulation. Guest's picture @Kelja You might be surprised, but in 1989 I was actually offered the full-time, benefited job of Direktoro de la Centra Oficejo by the Esperanto League for North America (now Esperanto-USA) -- it's a non-profit educational organization that runs a book service and responds to information requests about Esperanto in the US. It didn't pay very well then (and still doesn't pay a lot) -- especially given that the office is in the San Francisco area -- but it isn't the only job for Esperanto speakers: the World Esperanto Association has several paid staff positions in the Netherlands and there are offices with paid staff doing Esperanto in other countries as well, including Belgium and Brazil. And, of course, there are many jobs where you can get paid to write in some made-up languages (like C, Perl, PHP, and Java) that actually pay quite handsomely. I didn't take the job, BTW, and instead went back to graduate school and got a PhD in science education. I do alright. Guest's picture Common Sense Will Not Kill You Steven, very interesting article/link. Your polite response is the face of ridiculing comments is inspiring to me. I would not have handled it as well. I guess that since you are not a 'creative,' producer, or doer--like we have over at AIG and Goldman--you value to society is nil, according to some here. Guest's picture Common Sense Will Not Kill You Above should read: "Your polite response IN the face of ridiculing comments is inspiring to me." Guest's picture It seems that any WiseBread article that references wealth in any way gets a flurry of comments pushing spiteful right-wing rhetoric with a whole spectrum of logical fallacies, ad hominem in particular. What's up? Guest's picture It seems to me that several of the previous posters, while zealous in their assertions, lack one fact. That being - the rich by mere virture of that fact get better results with anything related to finance. Is this wrong? I guess it depends on how you look at it. I would forward that it is at least unethical. However most advisors (insurance, stock, legal, etc.) get paid based on volume of dollars captured or saved for their clients. This means that they will out of necessity focus on wealthy client to ply their trade. Again, is this wrong? Probably not, however the goal of a true "Financial Professional" should be to better the financial positions of everyone they come in contact with. How is this possibe? The biggest way is through public education, service, and good advice. The only way to make it economically feasible in most cases is to make the advice somewhat generic, the education en mass, and the service cut rate. However there are other options, especially today with the internet. Just about anyone who wants access to the internet can get it at their work, local library, or internet cafe. The interent has a plethera of good resources that can help to educate them, inform them of other options, and provide excellet services. This is done by the scope and volume of the potential clients, the lower cost of client acqusition, and the removal in many cases of brick-and-mortar distrubution outlets. I for one appreciate the free exchange of information and appluade all of the participants for doing just that. Hopefully we will all be better informed, and therefor more capable in dealing with our personal finances and those of our loved ones. Guest's picture Guest @28, you crack me up! Did you really think I was "adding up the wealth of three Democrats" when I said Obama, Pelosi and Reid controlled $3.5 trillion a year? I was talking about the federal budget, my friend, not their personal wealth! Sometimes I wonder whether left-wingers simply don't know the difference between a Billion and a Trillion. That would explain why it's so easy for them to throw the taxpayers' money around so freely! I realize that, to some people, anybody to the right of Karl Marx, and especially anybody who respects the Constitution and principles of personal freedom, is "far right," and that's OK. We're all entitled to our own opinions, at least so far. But what, exactly, about my posts in this thread are "far-right" - just to give us a standard of measurement? Or is your style of argument entirely ad hominem? I wonder if the Democratic Central Committee hires people to monitor blogs and accuse anybody who deviates from Obama's talking points of being in the hire of the Republican Central Committee? Did the DCC hire YOU to do that? Did the DCC hire CommonSenseEtc.? Are you and CommonSenseEtc. one and the same? Don't answer. I don't care. Wouldn't it be more productive of intelligent discussion to tackle the arguments, whoever makes them, than engage in pointless paranoid ruminations about the motives of the arguers? Do you refuse to eat vegetables, just because Hitler said they were good for you? Or do you consider the value of vegetables on their own merits? An ad hominem argument is the last resort of someone who has no better one. As for my work schedule, at this stage in my life, I work very efficiently, get paid a high hourly rate and spend modestly. That follows years, or rather, decades of working long hours and spending/saving with some (imperfect) self-discipline. To a left-winger, that makes me evil, I know. But this is a personal finance blog, and just maybe people who have done alright under our current economic system have some useful thoughts to share. Guest's picture AnnJo - great point! Most people have no ideaq how big 1 trillion is. To put it in perspective consider the following: 1 million seconds ago was 11.57 days ago 1 billion seconds ago was 31.70 years ago (or 1977) 1 trillion seconds ago was 31,709 years ago...think cave man without fire or the wheel. That means if the government was only spending 1 trillion dollars we would only need to earn a dollar a second for 31,709 years to "earn" it back. Yes, the math is correct and yes that is crazy! Guest's picture some think life's unfair and figure how to still win think life's unfair and blame others. Which one are you? Guest's picture "some think life's unfair and figure how to still win think life's unfair and blame others. Which one are you?" Neither and both. For most of us it isn't either/or. Both can and should be done. Make the best of your situation inspite of the obstacles, but also strive to make the world a fairer place for everyone. Doing just one or the other is quite foolish. Nothing in the world is black and white the way some try to portray it. Philip Brewer's picture Thanks, Kelja! Figuring out how to win--even if you don't have all the advantages that some other people have--is exactly the topic of this post. (Aside from one off-topic sentence that seems to have gotten all the attention.) Philip Brewer's picture ...but the writer is just about ready for one! Guest's picture Thanks Phil for writing an interesting and helpful article. I think it may have been helpful to mention how outsourcing to third-world countries has made it impossible for ethical businesses to pay their people a living wage and compete, but perhaps that is fodder for another article? Methinks Wise Bread needs to start policing it's forums. Frugal living at About.com delays posting until the author screens it, while Dollar Stretcher checks every night and removes posts that are in that 10% fringe category (you can speak freely, but have to stay in the ballpark of what you could say in person before the other person would slug you in the face). Philip Brewer's picture Thanks for the kind words. The way competitive pressures force everyone into to the low-wage, low-costs, maximize-profits model is the topic of Robert Reich's book Supercaitalism, that I reviewed a while back. You might also find some stuff of interest in a post I wrote called Are poor folks and the middle-class on the same side, that looked at things like whether a poor person shopping at a big-box store is shooting himself in the foot. As far as comments go, I'm fine with a free-spirited discussion. I have the power to delete comments if I want to, but the only ones I've ever deleted so far were spam. I can imagine deleting a comment that attacked one of the other commenters (and would certainly delete one that crossed the line into criminal behavior--death threats or the like). But having people disagree with my ideas is part of the fun--it means they're taking them seriously. Guest's picture Great Post! Little guys can do this too! Here are some of my ideas: Flipping Burgers, Cars, and Houses . . . http://divorceddadfrugaldad.com/2009/02/06/flipping-burgers-cars-and-hou... Creating Income Producing Assets http://divorceddadfrugaldad.com/2009/01/07/creating-income-producing-ass... Wealth Creation and "Assets" http://divorceddadfrugaldad.com/2009/01/02/wealth-creation-and-assets.aspx	http://www.wisebread.com/tactics-of-the-rich?quicktabs_2=0	<urn:uuid:cc319a4c-718e-4a1a-ae08-017fd683200b>	en	0.971322	0.169209
Journal Community Explore Group « » Recommend a comment by clicking the recommendation icon Re:he reality that a timeless all powerful intelligent being created us and the universe.Absolutely probable..................To qualify as a "scientific" hypothesis it is required that the hypothesis must make predictions which can then be tested for validity Very good points ,all scientific evidence all religion quotes from old bible s and new point out above points to be valid with specific proof somehow I had been getting with unusual experience. The nearest and quick prediction seem following addendum.What if some who died recently already lynching or awaiting to lynch (in so called returned homeplace)!To qualify as a "scientific" hypothesis it is required that the hypothesis must make predictions which can then be tested for validity Jesus second coming is one prediction given with so called coming jointly with Mahdi. IMAM Mahdi is a sign Al ahadith collectionof predictions By The Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh (1)Messenger of Allah, praise and peace be upon him, said: "Yes, that is because the Torah, Staff of Moses, Tablets, and the Table of Solomon, the son of David are in its caves. (2)There is not a single cloud that comes from any direction to it that does not pour its blessing in that valley. And the days and night will not pass until a man from my musked children live in it. His name is like my name and his father's name is like my father's name; his manners are like my manners. He will fill the world with fairness and justice just as it had been filled by harm and transgressions." Reported by Tamin Ad-Dari, in the reference of Ibn Hibban Ad-Du'fa. Pure, Musked Children "Al Mahdi is a man from my pure, musked children. He will fight with the guidance of my Sunnah as I fought with the guidance of the Revelation Musked children _ smell rose ,jasmine,deer ,duck etc. orange lemon Jasmine is fragrant white yellow flowers.Liely there will be trial of Gold from other metal too?At the end of Time there will be a trial in which people will be sorted in a similar way to that in which gold is sorted from metal.Amazingly,some recent events had scary predictions which came true.Worst still how some are doing or giving right to die right to live in pursuit to create what is being created - These days in self amusement? When was Ramadan in 2011? Ramadan in 2011 had started on Monday, the 1st of August and will continue for 30 days until Tuesday, the 30th of August. Solar /lunar eclipse did happen exactly as was in one month before Ramadan 2011 june 1 /june 15 ramadan started july 31/eid aug3/2011I Then the security Minister Hudaifa said, "O Messenger of Allah, praise and peace be upon him:"how do we know who is Jesus who is Mahdi"Al Mahdi is a man from my children his color is that of the Arab, and his body is like that of Israel. On his right cheek there is a mole like that glitters like a star." Al Mahdi will glance to the side as Jesus, the son of Mary descends with water dripping from his hair. So Al Mahdi will say to him: 'Come forward and lead the people in prayer.' But he will answer: 'The Call to Prayer has been made for you to lead.' There seem live universe material on going bustling with activities - seem scary enough to me knowing science of the world and universe. • "Your talk about fallacies, message transmissions, and explanations to a dimwit like me may be correct...and they may not." (p673) I've never denied the remarkable wonder of human life and thought, but at the same time I've never stopped and will likely never stop trying to understand what it is and means. You are satisfied with the answer you've found, I am not and in all likelyhood will never be. We know so very little and yet we have so little time to learn. • "You continually try to portray a false picture of history and Republicans, as well as evangelicals and conservatives in spite of the facts staring you in the face. " What is false about what I said? And lets deal with what I said. I said that "the old radical republican group that [held] strongly for civil rights for African Americans is gone and replaced by the southerners who were always culturally conservative, evangelical and hostile toward minorities". You have a habit of taking a specific statement that I make and dressing it as an all indemnifying statement that it wasn't. I simply proposed that Republican cultural liberals had been replaced with southern cultural conservatives. This is not news, In fact Democratic liberals have argued that Republican fiscal conservatives should take back their party from fringe elements that seem to be dominating their politics. How many Beltway Republican have said that Republicans need to stop talking about abortion (John McCain) or fix immigration ( Lindsey Graham). The latter issue is interpreted by Hispanics as being hostile to them. But even as these Republicans mouth the words, the Kansas legislature is busily passing get tough on illegals by forbidding dream act like access to higher education. Or Wisconsin's legislature is readying yet another womens nether regions probe as an answer to abortion. And every time you say that Democrats "make up " controversies to "scare" African Americans, you act as though they are little children who are unable to assess and analyze what is in their own interests. That they are somehow impaired and can't figure out what voter suppression is or that African American baby boomers have no earthly idea the relationship between "states rights" and "Jim Crow". When Campbell and Putnam drew a direct line from the older Christian Right to the Tea Party and described them thusly as: Do you think these attitudes originated with the older establishment Republicans in the north or with the southern transplants which joined the party after 1964. There is only so much revisionism that can be tolerated. Minorities of all persuasions know these attitudes and are not scared by Democratic rhetoric but by Repubublican action. Romney didn't lose 75% of the Hispanic vote over rhetoric. And African Americans have recent reminders that Republicans would gladly repress their vote. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to equate 8 hour waits to vote based on decreased early voting days, lengthy ballots, and older malfunctioning voting machinery with poll tax and literacy tests that southerners used to employ. You keep shouting liberal lies but I know plenty of African Americans that have lived through both eras and they see no difference. Rather than continuing to make excuses, you need to pay attention to what I am saying. It is either that or permanently write off 25% (and growing) of the electorate. 3 Recommendations Newsflash... All Americans have their civil rights and the right to vote. There's no need for the Republicans to push that issue as they did for over 100 years. The radical Republicans that existed at the time of the Civil War died out way back then as Democrats through their bully arm the KKK thwarted their efforts for equality. For you to say the radical Republicans were "replaced by the southerners who were always culturally conservative, evangelical and hostile toward minorities" is an atrocious misrepresentation of the truth. You are rewriting history and accusing innocent people of racism when you have no evidence for that charge. Your narrative is false and does not align with the truth. You have totally disregarded the timeline of events and you clearly must realize that. Here's the problem with what you said. The Republicans of the 1860s were not cultural liberals as you falsely identify them. They were not akin to today's Democrat liberals in any way. They were religious people who opposed slavery on the basis of morality, just as today's religious Republicans oppose abortion. Long after the radical Republicans were dead, the South began to progress and more and more Southerners became educated and prosperous. By the 1920's they slowly began to vote for Republicans because of their improved education and financial status. This is documented and the numbers tell the truth. The poorer, less educated Southerners continued to vote Democrat. You are trying to equate conservative with racists and liberal with non-racist, and that is false and misleading. The Northern States at the time of the Civil War were conservative and religious. It is these people who called for the end of slavery. What has changed dramatically over the years is the make up of the North and you cannot look at the politics of the North today and assume they are the same people they were in the 1850s. Nor can you look at the South today and assume they are the same people they were in the 1850s. For you to say that the educated and prosperous Southerners of the 20th century who vote Republican because of their education and prosperity have made the party racist is simply not backed by any facts or evidence. I'm sure Democrats would like nothing better than to see the Republican Party renounce those who stand for moral truth, the very kinds of people who once called for the end of slavery and civil rights for all men based on moral truth. I'm sure they'd like nothing better than for the party to stand solely on economic issues, issues that would never have ended slavery. Not everything is about money. Some things are more important, and the tradition of the Republican Party is to stand for what is right, not necessarily what is most lucrative. If you feel Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot by standing up for the unborn and the enforcement of legal immigration where all those coming to this country have a fair shot, then you should be glad and rejoice for your party will win. But beware. Minorities may become better educated and prosperous in the years to come and may wind up voting Republican just as Southerners did in the 20th century. 3 Recommendations Rachel Maddow bemoans the fact that we can't debate real issues because we are constantly caught up in this cultural morass. There are lot of areas where conservatives and liberals might agree. For instance, education I acutually favor a more "consevative" approach to education. No , not teaching bible stories. But teaching basic math, English and history. I have a problem with public schools teaching "theater" and spending millions on state of the art football fields. And I am an ex-athlete. I would welcome a conservative approach that figures out how to provide a qualtiy education to poorer school districts. But we can't have that debate. We are kept busy debating whether this is a Chrisitan nation, deciding based on the most basic of criteria a decision that should be between a women and her doctor, and figuring out what to do about gays. a group no more good or harmful than any other human group. But your point about "Minorities may become better educated and prosperous in the years to come and may wind up voting Republican just as Southerners did in the 20th century" was precious. These southerners are the same people that regularly report some of the lowest standardized scores for education in the company. To be sure, the majority of white well educated southerners do vote Republican. The mystery is why do lower socioeconomic class whites who make up the majority of people that are on public assistance (yep they get food stamps and are regular vistiors to the emergency room for medical care) vote Republican. They vote against their own interests. If these guys ever figure out that gays, African Americans and Hispanics aren't the enemy, that day of reckoning you speak of may never come. And Center right becomes Center left. With regard to Greg's political positions they are motivated and put forward for reasons of political gain. Truth maters not, only perceptions matter and so it goes. 2 Recommendations The better educated and prosperous Southerners, according to the numbers, are the ones voting Republican. The poorer and less educated are voting Democrat. I guess, according to your theory, that these are the Southern Democrats bringing racism into the Democrat Party since you view all Southerners as "hostile towards minorities." Also, "Even today, the Democratic party splits Southern districts, winning a fair share of majority white districts in the process. That level of competition is not consistent with the Benen/Kornacki argument that white Southern antipathy toward blacks motivates them to vote Republican. If it were, we would see a new Solid South, a solidly Republican South. We don’t see that." I too would love to see the debate in politics about substantive issues, but sadly your side wins big when it demonizes Republicans as the new Southern racists. It wins when it calls Romney a felon and a liar who doesn't pay taxes, rather than debating the issues and standing on records. It wins when it accuses the Tea Party of being all white and filled with hate, stirring up the racist views of minorities against whites as if white America were evil even though it was white America that freed the slaves and gave minorities and women the right to vote. It wins by accusing the Republicans of wanting to take away women's contraceptives when the religious right has no problem with contraceptives whatsoever. That's a Catholic issue and most Catholics vote Democrat. It wins by stirring up hatred against corporate America as if they are actually the evil entities the movies portray them as when most business men and women work long, hard hours, often foregoing their own pay to make their business work. It wins when it offers ever increasing giveaway programs the country can't afford but claims all we have to do is tax the rich. It wins by claiming Republicans hate gays because they stand for traditional marriage, but are certainly not interested in what they do in their own bedrooms. No one is debating whether or not we are a Christian nation. That's not even on the radar. Just turn on the TV for five minutes. If you can find a show rather than an ad, it's amazing the filth and trash that passes as humor these days. No, that's not Christian, not anymore. If Rachel Maddow wants to discuss issues, may be she should stop pushing the cultural morass. A Republican approach to provide quality education to poorer students was voiced by Mitt Romney in his campaign. Sadly no one heard it. They only heard he was a rich white guy who hated everyone and was a liar and a felon. But here's an article on his approach which may interest you: 1 Recommendation • Nancy, Mitt Romney lost the Presidency because he approached winning it like it was the third line on his bucket list. Romney became a mega rich guy rolling businesses like drunks on skid row. Nothing he did was illegal but there were certainly moral questions. But he didn't lose because the Obama campaign painted him into the poor little rich guy corner. He lost because he decided to become Thurston Howell III when he was caught on camera by Jimmy Carter's grandson making his infamous 47% remarks. Romney lost because he went hard right promising to suspend habeas corpus on womens reproductive rights. While he gleefully promised to shut down planned parenthood, his partners in crime incensed even moderate women by passing laws requiring probes of various sorts in order to get an abortion. As thousands of women stood silently outside of the Virginia statehouse and women chanted "we will remember in November, Romney and the Republicans seemed oblivious to their revulsion. Romney lost the women's vote in Virginia by 15 points and the state by 4. Meanwhile twiddle dee and twiddle dum , Richard Mourdock and Todd Akin voluntarily decided to remind women that pregnancy by rape is either impossible or God's will. Maybe some Democratic operative slipped Mourdock a ,mickey but it looks like that this only assistance they got. Catholic Bishops decided to pick a fight with the administration over providing contraceptive as a business. But Republicans gladly jumped into the fray. Remember that Rush Limbaugh called a young female law student a prostitute. Democrats didn't gen up fear. Republicans thinking that they could score political points tried to exploit this issue , Benghazi style, to score political points. By the end of the September , the team that couldn't shoot straight delivered so many self inflicted gunshot wounds to the head, Dems began to light up their collective cigars as Nate Silver's analysis showed a nearly 85% probability of victory. only a sleepy performance in the first debate inconceivably gave Romney an opening. Two interminably long weeks between debates allowed Romney to build momentum he should have never gotten. But Obama jabbed aggressively in the next debate and then floored Romney with a hard left hook in the form of goading him into mistakenly stating that Obama did not use the phrase "act of terror". Romney held on for dear life in the next debate while Obama reminded him that we weren't fighting WWI. While you want to blame Dems for what was horrific campaign by an already flawed candidate. During weeks on end the Romney campaign made mistake after mistake. Until the first debate it was a real amateur hour. You can't lay this all at the feet of Democratic spinmeisters. For much of the summer and early fall, the Romney campaign was a study in incompetence. Your last post proves the point. It's all about cultural morass rather than pertinent issues. Romney wanted to suspend women's reproductive rights??? What a bunch of garbage you are spewing. Congratulations, Greg, you are the problem you complain about. 2 Recommendations • Nonsubscriber comments are set to "Hide" Show this comment +'re not running away from me again, are you...? ;) I’ll overlook the incompleteness of your last reply, and instead focus on something that bewilders me about you. Why are you so opposed to fighting? Fighting builds just as much—if not more—than it destroys. Our very existence as humans is a fight against nature. We fight old age and disease with medicine. We fight the elements with shelter and central heating. We fight our physical limitations with vehicles and weapons and performance enhancing supplements. We fight against our own ignorance with science and learning. America was built by fighting, by men who were willing to fight with both words and swords. Capitalism and free market systems are DEFINED by fighting, by competition to achieve. Most of the things you claim to advocate were forged in the fire of conflict; not just physical conflict, but also intellectual conflict and centuries upon centuries of debate (that thing you hate most of all). Sometimes we stop fighting amongst one group so we can become stronger in the fight against something else. But the fighting will always be there. It is a major component of human nature, responsible in part for both our dark sides and our better angels. This is a small fight, fought with words and ideas in the void that is the internet. But out of the flames of this fight, things are being forged. Ideas are being tested; some are found sturdy, some deeply flawed, and some linger somewhere in between. Dogmatic beliefs, if not being reconsidered, are at least being examined. Perspectives are widening, both consciously and subconsciously. Fighting is even part of your own model! Where do you fit in your model, I wonder? Being unable to defend your ideas, I can understand that, but not even trying? Right now, your model is just Xavier drawing himself a chart so he can personally understand how a system developed in the past. That’s nice, but without taking the next step—without making a prediction, without putting your model to the test, without FIGHTING against irrelevance—what good is your model to anyone besides yourself? 1 Recommendation • Go fly a kite Zach. It is more appropriate to your age and level of understanding about how the world actually works. This comment is based on my interpretation of your understanding, based mostly on non responses, of what I wrote about my model and prediction in two parts three weeks ago and repeated in part last week in page 672. I can only do so much. 1 Recommendation Xavier, Xavier. Was this one a little too big to tackle? Perhaps it might behoove you to stop spending so much time and effort trying to give Greg laughably hypocritical etiquette lessons and instead take a page out of his book when it comes to being able to coherently defend yourself. He might be wrong about some things, but at least he respects people enough to have a conversation about it with them. You can’t even meet that basic standard. For a man who claims to have been around the world and back, I’m surprised that you are so comfortable with irrelevance. 1 Recommendation • Such is life Zach. I no longer have any patience for fights, not that I ever did. I just explore and hope to learn. Believe it or not I learn much more constructing responses to Greg and others in this blog than I do "debating" you. I have tentatively concluded that it is because they are more mature and therefore confront me with real situations that are more relevant to real life. Alas, I’ve been called immature by a fellow who told me to “go fly a kite”; how your words do resonate with me! ;) Well, I’m sure Greg will be pleased to know that he is more mature in your book. At least now the insults and personal criticism that you constantly direct towards him will stop, right? 1 Recommendation Keith said..... Everett, Xavier, Zach, Keith, you are beginning to appear like an automation. You insist that everyone, but you and those that agree with your beliefs, are saying that everything is an accident, despite being told, over and over, that this isn't true. You are pounding on a strawman, pummeling it into bits, but accomplishing nothing except whatever it is inside you that needs soothing. 1 Recommendation Well, you already said it, Everett: It’s a self-contained discussion, requiring (and indeed, welcoming) only one participant. Xavier does something similar, though in a markedly different tone. The world serves as a passive sounding board; disagreement is unwelcome, and opposing positions are predetermined to be false—regardless of new arguments or evidence presented—before the discussion even begins. 1 Recommendation • Xavier, Never said that God was foolishness. but that it should not be used to validate or invalidate a philosophy, political idea or economics for that matter. But leave it up to you to cast whatever I say in the worst possible light. And whether I have a deep knowledge of the inner workings of Stiglitz or Krugmans should not prohibit my use of them in defense of a position especially if the use is appropriate. I don't have a "deep" understanding of General or Special Theories of Relativity but feel free to invoke them if someone wants to to talk about whether gravity bend light waves or faster than light space travel. In fact I just had a timing chain installed in my vehicle and though I know it is responisble for coordinating the firing sequence of the pistons in my auto engine, my knowledge of exactly how it does it is a bit sketchy. In fact why Devers and Finkelstein concluded that there was no conquest of the Holy Land as portrayed in the Bible is understandable and I have a cursory understanding of the techiques and time lines used by them to come to such a consensus. Does that prohibit my use of this evidence to refute scriptual references to the contrary? The idea that I have a basic understanding that Krugman believes (as do I) that government can create sufficient economic activity to kick start an economy or that Stiglitz (and Krugman) believe that cost of shelving millions of people either through inaction or by surrepticious action is far greater than we suspect. I suspect that they write books for guys like me to understand what they mean and why they think the way that they do. But if you are going to install Doctoral level understanding as a condition to acepting evidence then that defeats the very purpose of such evidence. My "demonizing" as you put it is directed at efforts to subtitute belief for evidence. Like Keith believed that Nate Silver's evidence was wrong. I get a special kick out of it when the evidence prevails which is just about every time. I don't think Zach removed God from what is falsifiable or not falsifiable. He simply said that it is not falsifiable as did I. Making a claim using a construct that is not falsifiable is the kind of "dirty pool" that I have railed against almost from the beginning. It's like the argument from ignorance. When you don't know what caused something attribute it to God. The claim is not falsifiable but it does not expand our body of knowledge and leads to a false sense of solution. In other words its a solution that isn't a solution. A fallacy. It is Christians use of such tactics that I am against. I have no problems with Christians that just want to follow the evidence. You seem to spend a lot of time demonizing me by saying that I demonize others. That's unfortunate. 1 Recommendation Ah, Greg, you know the rules. When some generalizes atheists/progressives/Democrats, it has a “ring of truth” to it, but when someone generalizes Christians/Republicans/conservatives, it’s “demonization”. The double standard being employed here is blatant enough to make libertarians and progressives strange bedfellows indeed. I thought at first (many months ago) that these criticisms were worthy of consideration, mainly because I give most criticisms consideration (especially when they come from those who seem wise). After all, no matter how hard we try, our personal respective perspectives will always suffer limitations. The reasoned advice and observations of others are often excellent barometers by which we may gauge ourselves. Now I know that I was misled by those too blinded by hypocrisy to see past their own toes, but alas, I tried :) 3 Recommendations Nancy said, Amen Nancy, I have observed that myself in more than one case of personal experience. Sons, and sometimes daughters, victimize their single mother who hasn't a man to turn to for help. A nurse friend of mine has a 30 year old drug addict that punishes her buy such acts as putting sugar in her gas tank if he does not get what he wants from her. There is more, much more, but this anecdote is typical. Greg simplistically likes single mothers because they vote his way. Greg would find a way to like anyone that votes his way. So it goes. 5 Recommendations Re:""Your talk about fallacies". One major fallacies being flat earth. Language is difficult.Detail counts.In Islam when it talks earth being flat but in circles or round in motion .Looking earth with water.One side is bulk of the earth .Other side bulk of the water with broken islands.Crust is thick and can be called flat (irrespective if it is in the middle linking both sides or one side or in circle or square or shapeless but it has some kind of shield enough to hold water (either side).Even Mount everest 29K was summer capital but I was born in Calcutta and arrived in London UK.half a year later one student neighbour woke me up :''belal , get up everywhere is ice(white).I peeked it was white stuff - snow like white xmas.In fact I lost a watch.few months later when the snow really melted ,I found my watch right in front near door.Exaggeration distorts or falsification with intent to defraud.I am pondering ,technology of human two kinds.One made from earth one made from smokeless fuel.They need not be angels or Gabrial or jjin of light.Technology is that it exists and 99.99 % people do not know that it exists.Rule of thumb of quotation is to verify if quotation is given.It is evaluation or verification which determines the Truth.But when I said I saw myself with sone witness as well as I have established Technology of my thinking - my imagination cannot be left alone unchecked.As a start,past 4 decades ,I am not even in the league of educated people or in competition with extensive training and confirmable background with brand name institution - yet no name brand?This is disgusting and despicable? I magine I have two degrees ,languages with work - all for $120 .This itself is worth huge gigantic breakthrough - how to? Ahh, Belal, are you off your meds again? Israel Arabs Canada UK EU Muslim and India Sikhism Dilemma .The records showing two stories side by side on Omer.One with Omer buried in Cyprus and one buried next to Holy Prophet priveleged like wife in Tajmahal ( in Mecca) with all kinds of Theories.One specific said about his wife being daughter of his daughter Fatima Zahra (shiite) sister of murdered Hassan hussain related to ashura of karbala .Other one depicted his wife being daughter of second caliph (father of young aisha) as sunni . Mystery being creation of state of Israel bunched together with Canada UK India sikhs as main enemy of USA with debt of $18 Trillion while claiming USA #1 friend of Israel. 100% accurate experience of mine or my friend or story of Omer in Bukhari..... However,Human made from Earth and human made from smokeless fuel (the way I wrote is 100% accurate).Technology is there.On the basis of shia sunni ,jewish ,christianity Islam with 50/50 basis hotch potch? In short,hereby I challenge west or east on above while it is mandatory to evaluate human and jjin (earth and smikeless fuel) Truth or Technology? Culprit being Canada UK Israel oil sheiks with sikhism anglican (protestant) hotch potch dilemma. • Zach, Okay, so I lost it. Sorry. Your three paragraph blurb near the top of page 675 was very reasonable and sensible. No excuses but an explanation is in order. I've made an honest effort to explain my model, not defend it but explain it. When you come back at me with criticism it is never about any of the elements or components of the model but always about conclusions I derived only in part by using the model. Thus far you have never addressed the model itself or any of its components, not once. It thus sends me up the wall when you cast aspersions on something you've never given an indication of understanding. Indeed, you have actually said you don't understand it yet you then criticize it. What I see you and others do is create your own version of what somebody says or means and then criticize it. Actually most people do that. Because it really bothers me when others do it, when I criticize something somebody says I always ask and ask again--and maybe this format doesn't lend itself as easily to it--what the person said and meant that I don't like to make sure I understood precisely what it is that I don't like. If you have paid attention to, for instance, my criticism of Obama, I often say that what or who I am criticizing are his advisors and then explain what I don't like and why I believe that it is wrong. My model has never had that kind of hearing, just blanket criticism about it not being any good. Maybe it isn't any good and I've said as much, but it really bugs me when people criticize it without giving it a fair hearing, apparently just for the sake of criticism or, as you like to put it, a good fight. 2 Recommendations Apology accepted. When you put it this way, I have no choice but to participate in the “fair hearing” you so desire ;) Okay, here’s the deal. I actually do understand the components of your model individually. I have no problem with these components. While vague, each step is fairly logical. I’m not going to challenge them, and I’d be happy to apply them to a specific discussion. The problem is that I don’t understand the purpose of your model as a whole. Models generate conclusions. Some models seek to explain past events only, which is fine from an academic perspective. Other models, which I daresay are a bit more pragmatic, seek not only to explain past events but also to accurately predict future events. When you tell me that you want your model to be useful, and yet you’re not concerned with the accuracy of its conclusions/predictions, I become confused. Imagine building a desktop computer. You attach the motherboard to the inside of the case and insert a CPU. You plug all the peripherals, HDDs/SSDs, and various cards into the motherboard. Then you say, Zach, come take a look at this and tell me what you think. So I come and take a look, and I reply, looks like all the connections are in order, Xavier. In order for this computer to be useful, the next step would be to turn it on and make sure everything works properly. We’d certainly run speed tests, memory tests, maybe even see how far we could push the new hardware before the CPU temperature rose too high. This is how we would know if your connections were REALLY in order, instead of just looking at how they all were connected in a dark, motionless box. Right now, to me, you’re telling me that turning the computer on and seeing how well it works isn’t important to you. That baffles me, because the whole point of building a generally USEFUL computer is that it will work (and work well!). You constantly tell me that you are more focused on the HOW than the WHAT. The problem is, Xavier, what is the point of having a HOW if there is no WHAT? Also, as Everett puts it, what is the point of a model that offers chances no better than a coin flip—especially when they come into competition with other models that, like Nate Silver’s, are validated with repeated accurate predictions? • Zach, do you remember that a few times a while back I said that the motivation behind the model was to understand better what holds back societies that don't perform well? You've travelled through Mexico and you've seen the huge gap between the haves and have nots, and that many of the latter live in abject poverty. Everybody wants to improve their condition and premier development institutions like the World Bank spend scores of man years and plow billions into its economy but the results have been far from what was and continues to be "projected" by some very fancy development economics models. I've always felt that those models and efforts have been missing the real problems. What I developed is in effect a tool to better diagnose the problems and help design better solutions. I've commented a number of times here what I see to be some of the problems in Mexico and how to fix them. I can repeat it if you want but although I know some of those problems are now being addressed directly--with other practical problems like unions interfering--I haven't been involved myself except in the steel industry and the focus of my model is social. I once did give you an explanation of how my team did it in Tanzania. But let me get off those grand schemes and come down to earth to something we can both touch. You gave an example of building a computer. You have a natural bias towards physical systems because nature, machines and now electronics are the primary subject of science as we have learned it. Yet when it comes to social systems life is not that accommodating. If it were, all of the fancy mathematical theories developed at the World Bank for economic development would work, but they don't because the reality is that humans are primarily social beings. If we were face to face I would be able to ask you simple questions about what you did with your girlfriend or relatives this past weekend and how that resulted in some conflict that you had to resolve, which if you did, you did by walking through some, although of course not necessarily all of the steps in my model. And I could predict as we went along what happened generically, what you then had to do, and roughly how you went about doing it. Thus, for instance, if you or your girlfriend decided for a change of pace to go to the movies instead of what you normally do, right away you would have some conflict. You would actually need to agree on and decide a number of things, including for instance, which of your normal activities to give up, what film to watch, at what time, and so on. And there might even be some tension and a laugh or some horseplay to work it off. These are all steps in the process part of my model. As important, while you may have a difficult time agreeing whether and which movie to do with a neighbor you don't know well, with your girlfriend there is a lot in common that you both know about each other that would help you walk through the process more easily. If after the fact you liked going to the movies and decided to do it more frequently, you may even discuss some rules about how to do it next time around more smoothly and automatically. I think you get the picture. And actually much the same applies more generally to societies. It's not rocket science at all. It is all quite simple and obvious but it's like anything else we haven't stopped to look carefully at, break down into its components, and try to figure out how it works. If you want we can work our way through something you actually did do differently than normal (the change) with your girlfriend or a close friend or relative. Of course the user of the model, me, needs to know a lot about you both. Obviously also the model may not be the indicated tool, but when the action involves social change of any kind, odds are that it may be at least somewhat useful. • PS. You may want to try it in your role as officer next time you need to change something, or you face conflict or any of the other process steps in the model. Remember that you would be using it at least at first only as a diagnostic tool for change or to resolve something that may not be going well. Thus, for instance, if you want to bring about change of any kind you'll know going in, i.e. you can predict, that you will have to deal with at least three problems. Making yourself understood. Overcoming resistance. And getting all the people involved on the same page. That alone will be a major challenge and can result in stress so you will have to have prepared a way to relieve that stress. You will also have to be alert to other seemingly unconnected parts of the normal routine that may need to be modified or eliminated in order for the new procedure or whatever to work well. « » To add a comment please Create an Account Your real name is required for commenting. • Clear • Post Your Profile Here… Set up your profile to connect with members of Journal Community. Your Groups Here…	http://online.wsj.com/community/groups/religion-diversity-tolerance-governance/topics/do-we-need-religion-have?commentid=5118295	<urn:uuid:7f742c79-f9da-4e28-bc66-f6a37b457cf7>	en	0.97117	0.136951
Seeking Alpha Philip Davis' Instablog Philip Davis My company: Phil's Stock World My blog: Phil's Stock World • Capitalism's End Game 35 comments Apr 11, 2012 4:59 PM German Finance Minister, Schaeuble arrives at the Athens airport. An immigration officer asks him: "Nationality?" Schaeuble says: "German." The immigration officer asks: "Occupation?" To which Schaeuble responds: "Nein, I am here for a few days only." "Gallows humor" is popular during depressions. No one is looking for a belly laugh - just a little smirk to brighten up the never-ending string of despair people usually have to deal with. Films were a popular means of escape in the 1930s and we were very into IMAX when they were below $12.50 during the crash as we expected a similar move up in movies audiences as we moved through this century's Great Recession. (click to enlarge)However, it only cost a dime to go to the movies in 1930 and, to put it in perspective, the price of gas was .20 at the time. Now it costs $15 to see an IMAX film and gas is $4 a gallon this weekend and we're beginning to see a bit of blow-back from consumers - who simply can't afford to spend $30 for two tickets when they just spent $60 to fill up the car. Gasoline was also persistently high in the 30s (relative to inflation) but came down from a relative $3 per gallon in 1940 to $2 a gallon in the 70s as the US entered an age of prosperity and we built this nation around the idea of having an inexpensive and readily-available fuel source. After the initial price shock of the 70s, which pushed us into another recession, things were improving all the way through about 2002, when gasoline prices soared to inflation-adjusted records. While the supply is still plentiful, the prices are no longer affordable and 86M barrels of oil a day at 42 gallons a barrel x 365 days a year at $3.50 per gallon comes out to $4.6Tn a year. Of course, not all oil converts to gasoline but you get the idea. Also, our friends in Europe are reading this and saying "$3.50 a gallon - in your dreams!" as they pay roughly $9 at the pumps. (click to enlarge) Add in the effect the high price of oil has on food and other downstream products that rely on oil and you are looking at oil alone diverting 5% of our global GDP - in EXCESS of the realistic $70 per barrel price - away from more productive uses than buying a commodity that literally goes up in smoke as soon as we use it (see "Goldman's Global Oil Scam Passes the 50 Madoff Mark" for more details). (click to enlarge)This is why Capitalism is the enemy of mankind. Since rising oil prices had and have very little relationship to the cost of extraction - it is fantastically profitable for the oil companies when we have these little price spikes. It is also fantastically profitable for the speculators, who insert themselves between the commodity producers (who take the actual risks) and the consumers (who create the actual demand) and the goal of the speculator is, of course, to pay the producers of the commodities as little as possible while charging the consumers as much as possible. (click to enlarge)I have warned people for years that these same speculators are now, even as I warn you, circling their wagons and looking to insert themselves between you and your water as well. One day they will go after the air that you breathe but water is already on the table and will one day be as manipulated as gasoline if we don't stop them now. This isn't an article about that but I do think it's important to keep you alert for the signs to come as we move into the final phases of corporations controlling everything you need to live. As I was saying, Capitalism is the enemy of mankind because, as we saw in the early 2000s, when oil companies and commodity producers make a lot of money - then the "hot money" flows into them. In real Capitalism, that's a good thing as more people drill wells and plant corn, etc. and, ultimately, drive prices back down to a level that meets the demand curve properly. Unfortunately, we don't even have true Capitalism, we have a perversion of it that has spawned a Corporate Kleptocracy where companies are rewarded for monopolizing resources and delivering the lowest quality product for the highest possible price across the board. This is not a long-term benefit to anyone except for those few who end up making all the money. In fact, if you are in the top 10%, it's likely you often choose quality over price and for very good reason - but more and more that choice is denied to the masses and the lifestyle of Americans since the early 70s is very easily summarized as getting less for more - year after year. (click to enlarge) Corporations are rewarded for shipping our jobs overseas and, as the consumers get poorer and poorer, they are willing to sacrifice things like being able to try on clothes at an actual store or having knowledgeable salespeople answer their questions before they purchase durable goods and the lack of knowledgeable salespeople and closing of actual retail stores (that employed actual people) encourages more and more people to shop on-line, giving Corporations more and more profits and encouraging them to cut more staff and more stores - perpetuating the cycle. (click to enlarge)As I said, this is how Capitalism becomes the enemy of mankind: We reward Amazon, who employ 56,200 people, with a price-earnings ratio of 141 while Best Buy, who employs 180,000 people garners a p/e of 6. What kind of business do we encourage entrepreneurs to build and invest in? Efficiency is a noble goal and works wonders when you have an ever-expanding market but what happens when you saturate the planet with efficiently-produced goods and services? Eventually, perhaps 700M people plus machines will be able to produce and distribute everything that 7Bn people on this planet require. What then? 6.3Bn people won't be just unemployed, they will be unnecessary - except for as consumers. But there's obviously no point in paying them not to work but if it's not profitable to employ them and we're not going to support them but we need them to buy our stuff - what then? If we kill them they can't consume - this is a conundrum that we're already facing, somewhere between the 1/3 of the population that "needs" to work today and the 1/10th that will need to work in the future - we'd BETTER figure this out! (click to enlarge)As you can see from the above chart, we certainly don't share the benefits of increased productivity with our workers, do we? Out of an 80% increase in Productivity since 1980, less than 7% of those gains showed up as wages - not even enough to keep up with inflation. This is what Capitalism REWARDS, this is what Capitalism steers us to - and it's still not enough - it will never be enough as the hot money chases the companies that make the most by doing the least - day after day, year after year - shaping our economy, our social structure and our Government the way a river shapes a canyon. Creating an underclass - even a slave class - is the natural end-game of Capitalism - a Corporate Kleptocracy simply seeks to hurry things along to their inevitable conclusion while making sure the players who are currently on top remain on top. In other words, they won the first round - and now they want to change the rules to make sure there are no surprises for the rest of the game. Marx argued that, due to economic inequality, the purchase of labor cannot occur under "free" conditions. Since capitalists control the means of production (e.g., factories, businesses, machinery) and workers control only their labor, the worker is naturally coerced into allowing their labor to be exploited. Labor historian Immanuel Wallerstein has argued that unfree labor - by slaves, indentured servants, prisoners, and other coerced persons - is compatible with capitalist relationships. File:Pyramid of Capitalist System.png While in major capitalist economies the minimum wage is legislatively imposed by the state, there is no maximum wage limit, which is supposedly determined by the forces of the free market. They further argue that the minimum wage measure does not serve to set a lower limit in a worker's earnings; it actually functions as an upper limit on the earnings of a person that just enters the workforce. The existence of minimum wage, coupled with the absence of maximum, permits rapid wealth accumulation and leads to a phenomenon termed "plutonomy" by Citigroup. In effect, wages are kept low for almost all of the population while the remaining minute percentage is allowed to meet overwhelming profits. This IS what's happening folks and it's getting worse and worse every year and it is not going to end well... Additional disclosure: Positions as indicated but subject to change. Themes: market-outlook Back To Philip Davis' Instablog HomePage » Comments (35) Track new comments • Great post Phil. Common sense dictates you are correct. 11 Apr 2012, 05:26 PM Reply Like • Maybe somebody who's a lot brighter than I am can help me out here by answering these questions. If capitalists are so bad, and they treat their workers as slaves or indentured servants... how come the "wage slaves" just don't thumb their noses at those mean 'ole capitalists, pool their funds, and open up their own "employee owned" factories or businesses? Wouldn't it seem logical that the ultimate source of revenge, would be for the under-privileged workers to get together, and undercut those mean 'ole capitalists by offering products or services at lower price points, and retain all the profits to be equally distributed amongst themselves? 11 Apr 2012, 07:14 PM Reply Like • Author’s reply » I think you miss the point - it's ALL about who controls the means of production. What you propose is the workers take control of the machines and the factories and divide the fruits of their labor equitably among themselves - essentially you just wrote the Communist Manifesto. That's exactly what Marx proposed over 100 years ago as a logical necessity for the survival of the working class as anything more than slaves. Have you ever tried to start a business? Unless you are rich, you need the cooperation of people with money or bankers to finance you so barrier to entry number one. When you do get started there are numerous regulations, inspections, certificates, professional training required that to some extent offer consumer protection but in other cases really protect the status quo - like good luck coming up with a better car design if you aren't already a Billionaire, or a new drug. In fact, I don't know if you are following the smart-phone patent wars but even huge companies like Apple, Samsung, RIMM, NOK, MOT - are all spending hundreds of millions suing each other - do you think the average person can play that game? Patents and trademarks have their uses but their main use is to make sure the bottom 99% can't build a better mouse-trap and compete with the established top 1%. Big corporations can break you even when you are right - as long as they can raise the "benefit of doubt" they can drag you into court and break you with legal fees - that's done all the time to small businessmen. Union busting has been popular in this country for years - even President Reagan busted unions - that is the workers attempting to get together to bargain collectively. Wage slaves are every bit as trapped in their positions as regular slaves were 150 years ago. At least a slave was provided food, shelter, clothing and medical care for himself and his family by the masters - good luck affording all that on what Wal-Mart pays you. What funds do you think those people have to pool? You seriously don't believe 30 people working in a McDonalds for $8.50 an hour couldn't open up a restaurant that made better burgers (maybe not better fries) if they had the money? Think of all the barriers that stop them from competing on an even field. It's a good thing to think about in all the businesses you visit every day. 100 years ago, if you were good at something, you could put a sign outside your house and you had a business and, if you were really good, word spread in your town and you became successful. That was fair and that's where the American Dream took root and helped us build a great nation. Unfortunately, as we modernized (and Marx warned of this), the people who were successful consolidated their wealth and built barriers to stop other people from competing until now, we no longer have a level playing field. The bottom 99% didn't start the class war, they already lost it. 12 Apr 2012, 04:43 AM Reply Like • No economic system (it appears) can deliver on the promise of Utopia. But what you have clearly, and painfully described is (a system where) heaven and hell are upside down. 12 Apr 2012, 06:48 AM Reply Like • >>>> Unfortunately, as we modernized (and Marx warned of this), the people who were successful consolidated their wealth and built barriers to stop other people from competing until now, we no longer have a level playing field. <<<< Let me get this straight. According to you we no longer have a level playing field... right? So if you were King for the day, what would you propose that would help level the playing field? 12 Apr 2012, 05:21 PM Reply Like • Maybe it has always been this way. 11 Apr 2012, 07:32 PM Reply Like • By always, I meant since the beginning of time, excluding 1947-1979 in the United States. I'd imagine the slaves imported to the US were none too thrilled about their situation (obviously, they wouldn't have wanted to quit). If you have doubts about that I highly recommend reading "The Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, an American Slave". < > Phil is a great socialist for such an exceptional capitalist. Maybe it takes one to know the other. I'd vote for him! Although, he overestimates the abilities of the poor, huddled masses. The math doesn't make sense either. A 99% majority can easily control a 1% minority. The majority of 100% is 51% (rounded to the nearest percentage). The majority in the US might be a little higher, as some votes require 2/3 majority in the house or 3/5 majority in the senate. Another good reason to get the tired, poor, tempest-tossed NON-VOTERS. The glass is almost 2/3 full! 12 Apr 2012, 10:28 AM Reply Like Here's the math that counts, especially in light of the Citizens United case: Money is political speach, so we now have a monetary democracy - votes are, esentially, weighted by the wealth of the voter. Got a billion dollars? Your vote is weighted 1 billion times that of someone who has only one dollar. So, since the top 1% control more financial wealth than the bottom 99%, its pretty easy to see how the 1% control the political process and the 99% are rendered pretty much mute. 12 Apr 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like • GR, Good comment and observation. And that is exactly the underlying reality and dysfunction of the american political process today. 12 Apr 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like • I have begun to have serious doubts about the legitimacy of our Supreme Court, in light of some recent decisions. Citizens United, of course The Supreme court also, in the last couple of weeks, has determined that being strip searched, even when arrested for the most trivial of offenses, such as riding a bicycle without an audible bell, failure to use a turn signal, or violating a leash laws, does not violate ones consitutional protection "against unreasonable searches" - even though this is an invasive and degrading action, meant to intimidate and humiliate prisoners, is far more severe punishment than would be meted out IF found guilty of the original offense. 12 Apr 2012, 04:02 PM Reply Like • Fondness for satire at times obscures my intent. My point is that a lot more than 1% are pretty well-heeled considering the bottom 40% have a negative net worth. The top 33% have just about ALL the assets, but if it takes some ranting about the 1%ers to improve the situation; I'm all for that. 13 Apr 2012, 10:37 AM Reply Like • Not really true. The top 1% own 43% of the nation's financial wealth. The next 19%, rounding out the top quintile, own 50%; leaving just 7% divided among the bottom 4 quintiles. Financial wealth is defined as total assets, excluding the equity in your primary residence. So, 7% of assets divided among 4/5 of the population works out to 0.0875% per percentile for the bottom 80%. For the next fifth, excluding the top 1%, you have 50% shared by 19% of the population, or 2.63% per percentile. And for the top 1%, they own 43% - 16.3x the rest of the top quintile on average, and a whopping 49,142x (per capita) of what the bottom 4/5ths of the country own. So, no. The top 1% are pretty much all that count in our political system. The 2012 presidential election will, I'm sure, be by far the most expensive in history, and will play out almost entirely as a battle between the pro-Obama and pro-Romney superPACs. In otherwords, a few dozen millionaires and billionaires and their financial muscle are going to crowd out the entire rest of the nation from the political process. 13 Apr 2012, 12:28 PM Reply Like • If there's anything to such circular logic, (wealth=power, therefore power=wealth) 99% of us would be much better off to make the most of life's simple pleasures, or just turn on, tune in and drop out like a Day In The Life of the hippies that sold out. I do agree, "middle class" according to "wealth-math" is tiny, certainly way less than 1/3 of the population. BTW, a 3-way split seems more intuitive than quartiles. "Middle class" implies a top, bottom, and of course, a middle. Income distribution is much wider, but as it turns out, spending more than you make, an easy task even with insurance, produces zero wealth. Bloody circular logic! 14 Apr 2012, 07:00 AM Reply Like • Glad to see you've bought the lie the 1% are telling. 14 Apr 2012, 11:18 AM Reply Like • GR what interests me is how the Justice Department and all our associated legal apparatus selectively decide who to prosecute. Apparently Roger Clemens is facing a possible 40 years in prison for lying under oath about taking performance enhancings drugs. He is being aggressively pursued by the Justice Department. There was lots of fraud during the sub prime mortgage bubble. No bankers have been charged with fraud even though the Supreme court says that 'banks are people'. Hmmm. Should they not be pursued by the Justice Department. In a totalitarian state there are lots of laws and regulations. However enforcment is very selective and very arbitrary. Bernanke said today that the laws were on the books. But not enforced 14 Apr 2012, 10:47 PM Reply Like • pd, Isn't that the truth ... the big guys get away with murder but the little guys get prosecuted to kingdom come for relatively trivial infractions that have orders of magnitude less effect than the outrageous infractions of the big guys. To wit Roger Clements, Martha Stewart, or even Raj & the hedge fund guys. Their stuff is in the thousands or even millions. But the really big guys cause damage and fraud in the billions and trillions and by and large get away with it. Meanwhile they ruin millions of people's lives and investments. One of the most irksome being the Countrywide guy and some of their insiders. They should have consfiscated 100% of their assets and sent them away for life. The moral seems to be you have to steal and defraud at very very large levels, instead of minor levels. If you steal and defraud enough, then you can pay big enough settlements and fines to get away with it and still keep multi-million/billion dollar fraudulent profits. Truly sad and outrageous. 14 Apr 2012, 11:36 PM Reply Like • Now I'm really confused. The 99% can do something to change the status quo? The 99% can't do anything to change the status quo? 2 Aug 2012, 02:31 PM Reply Like • Interesting graphic on productivity and where the benefits of productivity gains have gone in the distribution framework over decades. 12 Apr 2012, 02:32 AM Reply Like • In all your data you see that while there was less federal power, there was more income equality and more progress for the whole of society. As federal power increased, especially with the "Great Society" in the 1960's and huge expansion of those and similar programs during the 1970's, the actual effect was directly opposite of what was intended. Increasing government increases income disparity. In other words, the article title is wrong. The problems you identify have nothing to do with with capitalism. It is a problem with increasing government power. Compare with Communist totalitarian societies. The more China adopts Capitalism, the better off the people. They were all rural agrarian 40 years ago. Cuba has just about ended itself thru starvation even as the Castro's and other top figures live lives of relative luxury. 12 Apr 2012, 10:08 AM Reply Like • Very true. Government is controlled by humans, who are subject to the same avarice and greed that the rest of us have. So those with the money can use the people in power's vices to get them to pass laws that are specifically geared to help the wealthy. It is basic common sense. The blatant corruption and double dealing in congress and in the executive branch is astounding, and it all comes back to two things, Greed and hunger for power. If we limited Congressional Seats to one or two terms, we would see a sharp about face in the way business is done in Washington D.C. 12 Apr 2012, 10:40 AM Reply Like • Dear Phil: I completely agree with everything in this article except the title. As you point out yourself the system that is bleeding us all dry is no longer capitalism, it is a kleptocracy. What we had during the Great Prosperity was capitalism, tempered by a Christian-based (and/or socialist-based) belief in mutual obligation expressed through a robust democracy. The point is that it is not capitalism that is the problem, but its abandonment, and the perversion of politics by the influence peddling of all the new 'robber barons'. If we blame 'capitalism' we may end up 'shooting the goose that laid the golden egg' in the first place. We need more capitalism. Traditional capitalists actually made things and then reinvested the profits into making new and better things. The union movement, with broad social support, ensured that the wealth was shared. Unfortunately, the union movement became corrupt (anyone remember the teamsters?) and lost credibility. That needs to be restored, but how? We have replaced capitalism with financial 'services' that serve none but the middlemen skimming all of the fat, while allowing these sleazebags to pretend that they are the 'new capitalists'. We need to recognize that bankers are not capitalists, they are money lenders, and that a salary received as stock is still a salary, and tax it accordingly. We need to have rules to distinguish between grossly overpaid employees and true owners of businesses that risk their own capital to create real wealth that benefits society, and who deserve to have this recognized in the tax system. I greatly enjoy your articles. 12 Apr 2012, 10:30 AM Reply Like • Great comment elizabeth. 12 Apr 2012, 10:44 AM Reply Like • Could you provide a link for the source of the chart on productivity (Great Prosperity vs. Great Regression)? Thank you. 12 Apr 2012, 10:43 AM Reply Like • Author’s reply » Full chart from the times is much more informative (as is the article): 12 Apr 2012, 11:36 AM Reply Like • Perfect. Thanks. 12 Apr 2012, 11:48 AM Reply Like • Great Article. Catchy Title. Aren't WE ALL actually socialists at the end of the game? How PC is that! 12 Apr 2012, 12:00 PM Reply Like • That IS the great dialectic... 13 Apr 2012, 10:51 AM Reply Like • Actually, the creation of the socialist safety net gives birth to the Freeloader who, combined with the Permanently Disemployed (due to shifts in the types of available work for which the former worker was singularly trained), begin the return path of eventual decay of the plutonomy, members of which are ultimately forced to bribe the top of this lower level--the community organizer, if you will, as downward violence is met with upward violence. Eventually it takes an outside conqueror to reset the system, break a lot of toys, bring justice to the plutocrats (Hun-style, or in our day, Sino-style) and begin the process anew. I guess one could make the case that it could also be an inside job (Citizens of the French Republic or the Bolsheviks of the Soviet Republic), ...or, it might take an Antichrist to pull off a relatively nondestructive reset (fascist in form) with the subjugation, rather than the elimination, of the existing ruling class--kill a few, cow the rest. After all, the author of monetary power can certainly bring it to its logical conclusion by vesting it one, perfectly loyal, subject. We've seen approximations before this, but these days, there are now the tools to make it happen. A nice story, which may never come true...but if it does.... 13 Apr 2012, 01:02 PM Reply Like • Something that gets missed in those productivity graphs is capital investment. As productivity goes up per worker a large part of this is due to fixed cost capital investment.Fixed cost capital investment is high risk. Why? Because workers can be let go in most sectors these days essentially immediately. But letting go a huge investment in a factory is not so simple. So with increased capital layouts (Billions to make a chip factory with a few workers) risk goes up. So why raise labors pay? The workers are not really any smarter, faster or stronger. It is the machines and automation that are increasing productivity of the worker. If the Chip factory has only one worker who is the security guard and the dog to watch the security gaurd then is that security guard some sort of genius of productivity? China's innovation is to have rapid production configuration by using cheap labor in an inefficient way to do small batch runs of one off toys etc. For small runs. America struggles with this. In any case 'higher productivity' should not mean higher wages. Only higher capital costs and hence greater risk. Hence we need negative real interest rates to prevent the whole shebang from collapsing... #! shebang Sorry to expose the dirty secrets but there it is... 14 Apr 2012, 11:06 PM Reply Like • Pigdog- I think if that if you toured a few modern manufacturing facililties, you'd quickly realize that the level of sophistication in the production facilities needs to be mirrored by the level of sophistication of those responsible for operating, adjusting, and maintaining the facilities. Gone are the days of long assembly lines manned by low-skilled manual workers... That manual work is now done by sophistiate production equipment, and the workers must understand how the equipment works, how to know when its not working properly, how to set the equipment up for a specific task, and how to adjust, maintain, and trouble shoot the equipment, as well as how to do sophisticated measurements and inspections to assure product quality. Come by my shop someday, we're still about 10 years behind (at least) the current cutting edge, but my problem is finding people qualified to work in this environment. 16 Apr 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like • GR yes. But has capital investment cost gone up relative to your labor cost in the last 50 years? I remember 15 years ago reading a statement that labor comprised 15 percent of the cost of producing a car. What is that percentage today? That is the point I am trying to make. Capital cost plus material cost now dominates in many production type areas (unless masked by very low interest rates). So very low interest rates are good for profits in this high automation time... Maybe you are arguing the worker is smarter and better trained than production workers 50 years ago. But were they better educated and smarter than the top 5 percent of workers 50 years ago? Or have the other 95 percent just left the building? I like to look for the unchallenged assumptions in an authors arguments. And you are right the last time I was in a production facility was 30 years ago. 17 Apr 2012, 09:48 PM Reply Like • You're welcome to stop by my shop, crude though it is, if you're ever in the neighborhood. We are undercapitalized, though, and thus use a lot of fairly dated equipment and techniques. The capabilities at the cutting edge are breathtaking, even from the vantage of equipment that's 10 years old. The statement that "labor comprised 15% of the cost of producing a car" is probably only true in a very narrow sense. For an auto manufacturor, purchased components are the lion's share of the cost of production.... Electronics, fuel injection systems, ABS, systems, electronics, drivetrains, engine accesories, are accounted as purchased items, but each contain a significant unit labor cost. There is also a significant amount of labor costs buried in "capital investment" - after all, the construction workers who built the plant and the machinists who built the equipment all have a labor cost associated. Actual raw material cost - Steel, aluminum, glass, plastic, rubber, etc. - are actually pretty minimual. And even they include a labor and energy component which is a high multiple of the actual raw material they represent - iron ore, bauxite, silica sand, crude oil. When you get right down to it, the actual RAW material to make a care from might cost a couple hundred bucks. The rest is energy and labor. Anyone capable even of working in my shop likely knows more, understands more, and is capable of more than 99.9% of manufacturing workers 50 years ago. 50 years ago, sintered carbides (about the only material used for cutting tools today) was rarely seen other than in HIGHLY specialized applications. There were a very few crude NC controlled machines in use in the aerospace industry. Process control technology was non-existent 50 years ago. SPC unheard of. We perform DAILY even our our shop inspections which were impossible 50 years ago. All of these improvements allow shops like mine to produce parts at levels of consistency and accuracy impossible 50 years ago, and at a cost a TINY fraction of what similar parts would have cost in the past. Even metal working fluids have undergone 2 or 3 complete revolutions over the last 50 years - from petroleum based cutting oils, to the first water soluble mineral oils, to vegetable based oils, and now to sophistocated blends of pure synthetic and vegatable based water solubles with the addition of stabilizing chemistries, anti-microbials, corrosion inhibitors, film strength enhancers and a whole lot more... Gone are the days when machine shops smelled like solvent. Almost everything used is water based, non-toxic, biodegradeable, and renewable; and performs better than at any point in the past. (And you can thank agencies like the CARB, EPA, and OSHA for driving these technological advances.) 18 Apr 2012, 12:54 PM Reply Like • What I do not understand is if we have so many people that see the unfair system in place which we all understand is not really capitalism why is there nothing done about it? There are so many smart people reading this website yet none have gone out to change anything? Capitalism is the only system that can work to provide one with the amount of weath that is equal to their worth that being said there has never been a period in human history in which capitalism was practiced let alone in the USofA.That being said there has never been a time where communism has been practiced either. The United States government will die from the weight of its own back. Not from promising debt payment that can not be afforded but payments that we are never intended to be paid back. Never payin yea back since 1776. Not a bad motto. You have two choices ehh actually three yea I'll call it three choices. 1. Be smart enough to take advantage of the system and maybe live a "decent" life. 2. Work a low paying job maybe take some government money but always have money for McDonald's, booze and cigarettes. 3. Go out and make a change for youself. Run for congress and when you get on the floor make sure you let everyone know about the lies given out by every government ever in power. You may not last long or be showcased on CSPAN but at least you know the right thing has been done. This last is a little difficult but if you can pull it off. Two thumbs up from me and many other people. Capitalism is the most perfect system but not in the form the majority of people understand it in. Oil, agriculture, rail subsidies are not in the equation. 30 Jul 2012, 03:32 AM Reply Like • You could do something by yourself. If you don't like mc Donald's for example don't buy their stock. If you don't like what a company does don't buy them, or don't use their system. How many people complaint agains Monsanto for example and they would be surprised that they hold them in Their 401k through the index ETFs or mutual funds. 19 Jun 2013, 11:40 AM Reply Like • I think efficiency will destroy the current system. We do not use high efficiency in a good way, and efficiency inevitably going to further increase. 19 Jun 2013, 11:33 AM Reply Like Full index of posts » Latest Followers More » Latest Comments Posts by Themes	http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/6284-philip-davis/484021-capitalisms-end-game	<urn:uuid:0eefb477-6ec3-4fb2-898e-cdcfc56a3e6b>	en	0.964803	0.044339
Forgot your password? The Future of Closed Source Software and Linux 566 Posted by samzenpus from the hand-me-downs dept. The Future of Closed Source Software and Linux Comments Filter: • by harris s newman (714436) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:55AM (#15837634) "Lack of new exciting software"? Try xgl/compiz! It's the most exciting software I've seen since a windowing environment! • by kripkenstein (913150) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:37AM (#15837897) Homepage Yes, exactly. Just to throw out a few other names besides XGL, how about GLScube [glscube.org] or Xen [wikipedia.org]. None of these (XGL included) is ready for prime time yet. But they show the exact opposite of what TFA claims - Linux, if anything, has plenty of 'exciting' software. If there is something lacking, it is boring software for Linux. TFA basically admits this when it talks about a "lack of exciting software", then complains about not having Outlook on Linux. Is Outlook then his idea of 'exciting software'? I doubt it, Outlook is the most boring piece of software ever. Perhaps it is necessary for certain corporations. But it isn't exciting. I read TFA, looking for examples of really 'exciting' software missing in Linux. Couldn't find any. • Which of these packages is interesting to a desktop user? I think TFA talks mainly about productivity software, not about OS components or servers. • by nmg196 (184961) * on Thursday August 03, 2006 @07:04AM (#15838382) > "Lack of new exciting software"? Try xgl/compiz! It's a f**ing window manager. If you think a window manager is exciting then you're a bit of a loser - even by Slashdot geek standards. Do you really think that 99.9% of people think that a window manager is exciting new software? If you people with the mod points (yes you) also think window managers are exiting, then please mod me down and I'll shut up and find a new website to read over my lunch hour. • by Red Alastor (742410) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:56AM (#15837636) If you find there isn't enough software for Linux, you haven't browsed your repositories. I'm not saying that "I miss software X" isn't valid but if you think there isn't enough new things to try in general, you are not trying very hard ! • If you find there isn't enough software for Linux, you haven't browsed your repositories. Ahhhhhhhh, but he's not really talking about software, is he? He's talking about Microsoftcompatibleware and Buzzware. • by NickFortune (613926) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:47AM (#15837926) Homepage Journal Agreed. The whole thing reminds me of how I felt in my first couple of months using linux, when I really, really wanted Linux versions of GetRight and ZoneAlarm. Shows how much I knew then, really. He's on firmer ground with flash - as in the browser plugin, anyway. Even then, I'm not too worried. All those flash ads out there provide therir own pressure on Adobe to keep Flash as cross platform as possible. • maybe s/he means the "happy dog that makes ... faces ... when you need to find something" is missing from Linux ... fortunately it is pattented, as I heard, so we won't have it any time soon. • by aztracker1 (702135) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:32AM (#15837884) Homepage Damn, and I have mod points... still. Part of the problem is a lot of software, but very little good* software.. Video editing comes to mind... Kino is nice for basic edits (cut/order) but handling additional audio tracks, and the interface for some parts is cumbersom. Pitivi is at least a few years away from being usable... Live seems interesting... As do a few others.. but spending the time to setup programs that aren't in the repositories, to find out they suck, and don't uninstall properly/completely... after a few days of trying, it sucks.. Honestly, I am pretty comfortable with linux, but this is just one area that irks me to no end... There's plenty of other areas, but honestly, I'd pay $100-300 for a mid-grade video editor (Similar in features to say Pinnacle Studio, or iMovie) ... Unfortunately the market isn't there on that end for linux. Photo editing is another big thing.. and no, the gimp does suck... not feature wise, function/UI wise.. GimpShop goes a bit towards making it better, would be nice to see those changes migrated into the main tree... I've always liked Paint Shop Pro... and if it ran decent under WINE would use it there instead of VMWare... It's one of the few Windows apps I still rely on. Generall office apps, email and web browsing, pretty much there... outside of that, there is a LOT to be desired... how about a decent bittorrent client? I would KTorrent is decent, would like to see it approach uTorrent, or Azureus on usability/features... and in all honesty, if I had more time, I would donate some of it towards improving things... However, I do a lot more web based programming, and far less desktop/gui development.. it's a bit of a different mindset. • by 70Bang (805280) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @05:12AM (#15838099) ...I have mod points (same here)... still. Part of the problem is a lot of software, but very little good software I'll one-up you. The major problem isn't there little good software, but very few good software engineers. Read it in toto before modding it. Thanks. I've said before [that] 98% of the people in the industry don't belong and usually get a lot of private rants 'n raves when I've said it before[1], so I've reduced it to 95% to provide some leeway for compromise, attempting too make them happy[1]. People think it's fun, they make decent money, it's a challenge, and people direct comments to them as though they ran into John Holmes at Roselawn, Indiana[2]. You da man! All of that put together makes their ego make them take a swing at every ball which comes across the plate. Code is inflated, buggy, a log of it written via trial & error, and if an actual review were to audit a sizeable fraction of code when prepared to be used, there'd be a lot of rewritten code or better coders who keep their jobs. The best way to explain it is one of my quotes from a long, long time ago. It's a simple compromise, but if people knew what they were paying for, there would be a lot of unhappy people (and companies) running around: "In this industry, you don't have to be good, just good enough." [1] Now, if you were to fall into the category of good why would you be p%ssed off about the other (larger) percentage? There are a lot of people who get upset when I assert these numbers. But it's like teaching a chess class: "Everyone who is a beginner or non-player go here ; everyone else ." Which side of the room are people going to put themselves in? It's the same with coding. If we were to break it out on a voluntary rating basis, how many people would go to the left and right sides of the room? I'll assert the left side of the room is going to be mighty empty. As you are reading this, do you consider yourself to be on the left or right side? Realistically. If you had to assert your position on the right-hand side, what's your evidence going to be? [2] When it was intact and he was alive. I'm trusting I shouldn't have to explain either of these, but that's what Google and Wikipedia are for. I can think of few industries where this isn't the case (Medicine perhaps, at one time I would say NASA but no longer). With unrealistic deadlines and tight budgets, "good enough" isn't just the minimum acceptable goal, it's the only acceptable goal. Don't blame the software engineers for a problem inherent in the system. • Regarding photo editing I recently found the program F-Spot for Linux. It was the reason I (once again) switched to Linux to play some with it. It's not so much editing as photo management. But in that aspect it does a better job than many Windows/OSX programs. Or perhaps more accurately, it has "versions" so you can have different edits of the same photo. Why no other programs have this is beyond me. It seems like an obvious feature. • Article Summary (Score:5, Insightful) by SnowZero (92219) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:57AM (#15837638) Summary: I like Outlook, but its not available for Linux. Evolution doesn't work enough like it, and Microsoft is unlikely to release a Linux version of Outlook. Boo-hoo. Why can't we all get along? I was kind of hoping for something a bit broader than one example heaped with a few generalities... • by kfg (145172) * You're new there, aren't you? • Re:Article Summary (Score:4, Insightful) by Melllvar (911158) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:42AM (#15837772) Ya know, I read and re-read the article at least three times (I really did!), because all I kept getting out of it was the sheer cluelessness of its premise. Seriously, Outlook? Is there anyone out there whose spent more than five minutes ruminating over computer OS issues who believes that Microsoft is seriously gonn get behind Linux/Unix versions of its flagship products? Besides Dvorak, I mean. The article also cites Shockwave and iTunes as examples; but I've never felt even remotely outta the loop for being without either one of them. I frankly don't understood the weird obsession with those silly little Mac music players (my 2-year-old, 20gb, non-DRM compliant, format agnostic iRiver still kicks serious enough ass, thank you); and as for Shockwave ... well ... in I dunno how many years of XP usage I've had to put up with, I've never even had to bother with using Shockwave, so why install it? So I can ... what ... finally have that full, uncrippled Disney.com [go.com] experience? There's only one thing that ever brings me back to Windows with any regularity. And that's gaming, pure and simple. You show me a critical mass of support from the mainstream PC gaming industry for Linux/Unix support, and I'll be outta here faster than Mindy Gates can say "Microsoft Bob." • Re:Article Summary (Score:5, Insightful) by killjoe (766577) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:26AM (#15838011) Gimme gimme gimme. Open source will die when too many people are whinging and not enough people are doing. Open source only works when YOU contribute. Find a way to help. • by WindBourne (631190) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:57AM (#15837639) Journal Apache, mosaic, jabber, etc were started on nix. But these are server apps. There are many more desktop apps that were started on Windows and then FINALLY ported to nix. What it will take is to make Linux a competitive place for desktop. Hopefully, as Google moves their apps on over linxu and forces other companies to compete on the same platform, then things may change. • by AnyThingButWindows (939158) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:58AM (#15837645) Homepage I believe it is time for the closed source community to grow up and find some common ground with Linux. • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:07AM (#15837682) Why would any company want to open their source code and share their intellectual property with everyone? Hours later, someone would be trying to sell a rebranded version of their hard work. What the GP actually said was: I can't see anything there that says "open source code" or "share ip", can you? That someone is in no special position, because anyone can sell a rebranded version. So why would I buy from that one? I'd rather buy from the original company because they're the ones in a special position of knowing their product, and being able to support it better than a random guy. On the other hand, if that s • by ozmanjusri (601766) <aussie_bob@hoLAP ... m minus math_god> on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:15AM (#15837699) Journal There will come a time when proprietary software will be routinely written for Linux, but I would prefer it didn't happen too soon. At the moment, the consequence of proprietary software developers ignoring Linux (and other FOSS OSs) is that open source developers are having to create the entire software stack. The FOSS community won't just be developing an OS, but office apps, graphics tools, audio, video, CAD etc. It makes the task of creating a viable alternative to Microsoft harder, true, but the end result will be that an entire suite of FOSS software will exist for the platform by the time commercial interests start noticing the market. At the moment, the lack of pressure from commercial interests is allowing the FOSS solutions to develop at their own pace, so the longer the proprietary companies keep shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring Linux, the better. Given time, any company wishing to compete in the Linux market will have to produce software which is significantly better than the established FOSS tools, and that has to be good for us computer users. • by FireFury03 (653718) <slashdotNO@SPAMnexusuk.org> on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:39AM (#15838036) Homepage Whilest I will always to choose open solutions over closed ones where possible, I'm not convinced that having the entire software suite implemented before the closed source people take notice is necessarilly a good thing (if that were even possible). The closed software producers are often large corporations with a lot of marketting muscle and Linux may well benefit from them promoting their Linux versions of their software (and thus promoting the whole OS). I mean, lets that a theoretical example: Lets say Adobe ported PhotoShop to Linux. They put a bit of marketting behind it and a large chunk of PhotoShop users migrate over to Linux. (Ok, I guess this isn't necessarilly the best example since they're pretty attached to their Macs, but bear with me). A migration to Linux like this would give it quite a boost in the desktop market. Conversely, let's just imagine that The GIMP gets as good as (or better than) PhotoShop before Adobe start caring about Linux. So now they have a viable free (as in beer) competetor to their rather expensive product. Are they actually going to want to promote Linux (which usually ships as standard with The GIMP)? Of course not, they're going to want to use their marketting weight to push people away from Linux in the hope that they can keep as many people as possible from discovering that they can get something as good as PhotoShop for free. Yes, ok, so The GIMP is available for other platforms, but people are more likley to discover it if it's already installed when they get their computer. It's worth noting that (in my experience) most commercial decisions are not based on "what's best for the job" or even "what gives the most bang for our buck". I've lost count of the number of times employers have forced me to use some very expensive piece of software that really is nowhere near as good at the job as some FOSS software. In most of these cases, the expensive commercial software is a good 10 years behind the free equivalent. Many of these purchasing decisions seem to basically just be made on the "noone ever got fired for buying IBM" premise (replace "IBM" with any large corporation who has been selling expensive software for a long time). • I agree with most of your argument but I also can't help feeling that the lack of closed source development for Linux is hurting the community as a whole. Perhaps companies developing closed source software for Linux won't advance the Linux code base much but having, potentially, tens of thousands of software developers using the libraries and reporting bugs should help improve the to the point where they are far better than any closed source set of libraries. I think part of the problem companies see with • Sure, right when Linux shows multi-BILLION dollar profits, a SUCCESSFUL business strategy and doesn't have thousands developers each creating their own 'perfect' GUI. With the exception of servers and anti-virus software, Linux is far, far away from being a serious threat to Windows (and Macs.) • by foreverdisillusioned (763799) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:27AM (#15838014) Journal Seriously now... when Linux shows multi-BILLION dollar profits Linux and the GPL weren't designed to make money (though some people do make money off of Linux); they SAVE people money. SUCCESSFUL business strategy News flash: "Linux" in and of itself is not a business. And last I checked Red Hat and IBM were doing alright. I have 5 machines in active use in my house. All of them dual boot XP/Ubuntu. No matter what machine I'm working with, when (re)installing XP I have to deal with the installer's MBR-related retardation and I have to hunt down and manually install the drivers for the network card, video card, and sound card. With the latest release of Ubuntu, ALL of my hardware is detected right out of the box. 3d-acceleration doesn't work, of course, but there are a few third party applications such as EasyUbuntu which automatically set this up for me. Installing Ubuntu and running EasyUbuntu is easier and by default requires less user input than XP and doesn't require hunting down drivers, and after it's done I can watch DVDs, check my email, surf the web, open or create MS Office documents using OpenOffice.org, play from a vast selection of Linux games (no, they're not Battlefield 2 but they're hella better than just Pinball, Minesweeper, Solitaire, Freecell, and Hearts... varients of which are all of which are included in the Ubuntu repositories, btw), easily install and run most simple Windows programs under Wine, and easily upgrade every single application on my computer with two mouse clicks. Yes, there are still plenty of rough spots, but its flaws aren't 1/100 as bad as the flaws Windows 98SE had. 99% of XP's non-gaming desktop functionality is there, and the remaining 1% is largely a result of Microsoft's anti-competitive practices and/or Window's momentum (Windows-only programs/drivers/APIs, IE-only websites, etc.) And on top of Window's functionality, you get immunity to most forms of malware, the benefits of the Debian package managment (makes InstallShield look like rocket science in comparison, and it automatically keeps your stuff up to date), and all-around predictability and stability--weird stuff still occasionally happens, but it isn't an constant, everpresent fact of life like it is with XP. (And don't give me that "XP/2000 is just as stable as nix" argument--that'scrap. It's a big improvement over 9x, but that's akin to saying Ramen noodles is an improvement over eating dog crap. It still crashes. It still causes apps to crash. It still behaves in an extremely unpredictable fashion--problems seemingly coming out of nowhere--at least a couple times a month.) In terms of market share no, no it isn't a threat, but then Linux isn't a business, so market share isn't a terribly fair metric. Linux can thrive (and indeed has) even on an extremely small user base; Windows cannot. I hearby pronounce the neverending joke about this finally being the "year of the Linux Desktop" officially dead. Linux IS on the desktop, and my grandmother DOES use it for everything most people use Windows for--email, web browsing, music, watching movies, casual gaming. ...and if you are indeed arguing that desktop Linux is nonexistant, then you're a goddamned ignorant troll. • P.S. (Score:3, Insightful) I should clarify-- by "people", I meant companies as well. Hence, close sourced companies should learn to grow up and play well with Linux not because they can sell it, but because they can save money. Plus, since it's open source, they can easily modify any part of it as needed (they don't even have to redistribute the changes, so long as they don't distribute the binaries outside • by dnaumov (453672) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:50AM (#15837936) ...the ant told the elephant. • Wha? (Score:4, Insightful) by RandUser (799024) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:59AM (#15837646) What is he talking about? Linux doesn't need new or exciting features, it needs further usability improvements and for the products currently available to mature. Feature bloat is not something I wish to see in the GNU/Linux world - function over flash has always been the mantra and it is definitely not outdated. When there is a gap for new programs, they will be created. When someone needs to get a task done and there isn't a tool, he will scratch that itch - eventually, if enough people have the itch it becomes widespread. I also have no idea where he is coming from about this release gap between windows and linux, unless we're talking about games which is a whole other can of worms. And finally, has he checked out XGL/compiz? That is some bleeding edge technology that is unmatched currently and definitely some cool stuff to play with. Basically I don't understand what this guy's beef is and how it relates to closed/open source - GNU/linux has all the software it needs being developed and the few closed source vendors who don't want to play nice and port are not the fault of the open vision. Of course, I am basing this entirely on the summary so who knows. shrug* • WAAAA???? (Score:3, Interesting) by Fluffy_Kitten (911430) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @01:59AM (#15837648) Homepage are you kidding me? most innovations now start at the linux level. Aero? Vista eye candy? compiz did it a year BEFORE not AFTER. Workspaces? windows still doesn't have that. all the new desktop usability comes from linux, while windows kept the windows 95 desktop going for 10+ years with minor changes. linux thinks AHEAD not 3 year ago like closed source. OPEN means you can risk new ideas, while CLOSED means risks can rouin you. I chose to take bold new innovations out for a spin. • Pro graphics apps (Score:5, Interesting) by edwardpickman (965122) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:02AM (#15837658) Ironically it's the pro applications now that port first. Things like Maya are more and more focasing on Linux. I doubt you'll see most consumer applications paying much attention to Linux anytime soon but the professionals are adopting it faster than any group. The 3D realm likes the power and stability. Photoshop is still dragging it's feet as far as I know but but there are plenty of higher end 3d animating and modelling apps availible and they tend to be released before even the Mac versions. • Excitement = Bad (Score:2, Insightful) by rai4shu2 (987626) If you're excited, it's probably because it barely works. We don't need more of that type of software on any OS. by MostAwesomeDude (980382) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:03AM (#15837665) Homepage So, what he's saying is that Linux people aren't trying hard enough to make closed software available on Linux? ... I almost feel like Obviousman here. Linux can't accomodate closed-source software easily BECAUSE IT'S CLOSED AND THUS IMPOSSIBLE TO INTEGRATE SEAMLESSLY INTO OTHER APPLICATIONS. Linux has no obligations whatsoever when it comes to compatibility -- they've published all their docs, spotty though they may be, and they use standards. Microsoft, Adobe, and now-defunct Macromedia have done neither, with some exceptions such as SWF and PDF formats. If this guy wants more integration, he should stop bitching at Linux, which has an open kernel API; he should stop bitching at GNU, which is completely and totally open. He should be directing his trolling at Microsoft, who has made no efforts to make their software work on top of Linux kernels. • by geminidomino (614729) * on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:57AM (#15837949) Journal Unless he's not talking about OSS developers. The first thing I thought of when I saw that comment about "growing up and looking for common ground" was the eternal NVidia flamewar. This IS a proprietary company trying to serve the OSS community, but they're constantly getting flack because they're not willing to go all the way to open-sourcing their drivers. Personally, I don't care. My interest is in making my computer work, but it seems I may be in the minority there. That sort of behavior could conceivably make other companies disinclined to even consider linux. by Per Wigren (5315) The case with NVidia is very different. NVidia is a hardware company and their "software" is nothing more than a bridge to make their hardware work in various operating systems. Their revenue comes from their hardware, open sourcing their driver can only help them sell more hardware... Also, it runs inside the kernel which means a bug in the software can kill the whole OS. The kernel is GPL meaning that a closed source module is illegal. They use a GPLed wrapper though, putting it in the legal grayzone inste Well good for you - others however, have an interest in making their computers work reliably. This means being able to expect support from their vendor & the kernel.org people. However, running a closed source kernel module, means giving up that support (as the kernel developers cannot diagnose problems over which they have no control). My interest is in making my computer work, and work relaib by cnettel (836611) The "open" kernel API of Linux is not constant, and it's not open in the sense that you can link even non-open code to it. That's why you have those thunkings to binary "drivers", with a thin layer under a GPL license, that just communicates with the binary code. • by Were-Rabbit (959205) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:05AM (#15837668) Actually, this is exactly what I have heard from a number of software vendors. I review software and gadgets for a few web sites. One of my testing criteria, particularly for hardware, is if the hardware is Linux-compatible. When it comes to software I always ask if there are any plans to offer a Linux version of the software. The answer that I hear the most often is in regards to a lack of available resources, which I certainly can understand since I review a lot of software form independent companies. But when I question further about asking Linux coders to help with the conversion, the major of companies that have shown an interest in a Linux port say that they've attempted to do so, but the programmers that they approached expect the software to be open-sourced if the company is to get their help. I've even had some developers of software that's geared more towards a particular science admit that they think there would be a huge demand on their software for Linux, but the "requirement" by Linux coders that the software is open-sourced killed the prospect of releasing a Linux version. As much as I'd like to brush that off as "just an excuse", look at a lot of the replies here on Slashdot about Linux and open-source and you'll quickly see that HE'S RIGHT! I love open-source (or at the very least open standards) just as much as anyone else here and I use it whenever feasible. But there is definitely an assumption among a lot of Linux users that if it's available on Linux the course code has got to be made available or else it doesn't belong on Linux, like it's some kind of plague. Now, I'll confess that this attitude has been diminishing as Linux eeks its way into the mainstream. The attitude is shifting away from open source and more towards open standards. But there is still a big movement and big preconception that "Linux == Open Source" and "Closed Source != Welcome On Linux". NOT flaming here, folks. Just relaying what I've been told by software developers and what I've seen here on /. Sorry if you don't like it or don't believe it, but that doesn't make it less true. Or at least, that doesn't it make it less true in the eyes of software developers. • by L.Bob.Rife (844620) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:26AM (#15837733) The counter-argument is that many companies are basically seeking people who will port their code for free, and then profit from their efforts. Companies can either pay actual salaries to programmares and get it coded closed-source, or donate their intellectual property and get it ported for free, eventually. Either way, they have to pay. • Actually, one in particular tried to get paid, Linux coders a few years ago for one of their projects. Granted, this was many years ago before Linux became as mainstream as it is today, but the few people that they spoke to supposedly voiced displeasure with not making the code available and the deadline for the project was approaching, so they decided to scrap any Linux conversion. Once again ... what I was told. An excuse? Could be. But I could tell by the tone of this particular developer's e-mail t • Sooo... you think it's totally reasonable to ask the Linux coders, committed to free software, to help port closed software, so the closed software companies can make more money...? I don't see the commitment on part of the Linux coders to help companies with too much money make more myself. • by Anonymous Coward Ummmm ... If no one is willing to take the jobs to port software to Linux, does it make sense to then turn around and complain that there's not enough commercial software available for Linux? And it's correct! The whole point of the FSF and the GNU operating system (usually running on a Linux kernel) is to make an entirely Free operating system, with Free applications. The whole point of this entire exercise is to make closed source software superfluous, not just Windows. That's the main • I'm glad someone has said it and said it well. I think there are quite a few companies, especially ones producing highly specialized software, that would quite like to release Linux versions but they are held back due to the whole "if it's on Linux it must be open" thing. I always felt that the whole OSS movement was more about providing people with free and open tools not completely replacing / removing all closed source software. An open OS fits in with the idea of producing free tools, it's pretty easy t • by SocietyoftheFist (316444) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:12AM (#15837692) No coherent vision with a bunch of competing vendors. One target needs to emerge with the kind of support that Windows has down the whole stack. I've been hearing about Linux taking over this and that for 6 years now, I only see it replacing UNIX. • The problem is this. (Score:2, Interesting) by Null Nihils (965047) Its really quite simple. Linux, and most of the other software distros bundle with it, is all licensed under the GPL, and is generally licensed as such for a reason: the developers are dedicated to Free Software. The question of proprietary kernel drivers, and many other issues, are consistently decided in favour of continuing to strictly adhere to GNU/Free Software standards. On the other side of the fence, proprietary software is Closed Source in order to maximize revenue. Much of it will stay closed • like, if all i cared about was reproducing cool audio software, i wouldn't say nothing was going on, but rather that XXN0YXX was lacking development momentum. as for me, i like amarok. screw itunes, love ya xmms, but bye, and the featureset for 1.4.2 is actually better than any other alternative, period. and since i listen to music ALL day while working, this is not a minor thing for me... it's great. god bless amarok and all who sail with it. • It's not all bad (Score:4, Insightful) by also-rr (980579) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:22AM (#15837718) Homepage Woohoo, I get to recycle my +5 comment [slashdot.org] from last night Proprietary software, as long as it doesn't make the system less free, is not necessarily bad. For example a proprietary document system that uses open formats and has open APIs does very little to harm the user and potentially fills a niche that cannot be served by free software very well (eg handles certain legal compliance issues, which requires expensive insurance and research). As long as you could write your own software to replace bits of the system, or interoperate with the system, then you dont necessarily have to for the benefit to be very real indeed. • by rolfwind (528248) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:30AM (#15837878) On the other hand, I am finding proprietary operating systems becoming less useful all the time. For instance, does MS's refusal to open up NTFS hurt its competitors? Not really, linux has great file systems available to it, so one place I would have potentially had a dual setup, I went all linux because I didn't want FAT32 (no permissions), nor can Windows interface with a lot of the file systems I use out of the box. The same can be said with Open Office vs Microsoft Office in regard to open documents. I am finding closed documents a hassle because that means I can use only a very limited subset of apps to manipulate said document - and not every should be a one size fits all (except emacs:) ) I'm probably the exception these days, as with some hassle, drivers can be added to Windows to let it read other filesystem, and Open Office can run on Windows. But other benefits of Open Source are repositories, as you mention, and I find the convenience of one central spot on my computer to download and automatically install known good software with a few button clicks (sans spyware/adware) beats any Windows experience hands down (which usually includes searching the web, downloading, installing, hoping it's not malware, adware, etcetera for every app). I really could not see going back to something like Windows. It just seems like too much work and money. Quite a reversal from the Linux experience like around 1999 or so. • by RotateLeftByte (797477) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:25AM (#15837724) As has been stated, this article is nothing more than "I want outlook on Linux". If you take a good look at real world closed source software (ie sold by companies not based in Redmond, WA) you will find most of the top app providers already selling Linux versions of their products. For many, this was a no brainer as they already had Unix (of various flavours) versions of their key products. Then you get companies like IBM who are (IMHO) actually looking at replacing windows with Linux as the key dev platform. For example, if you look as some of the WebSphere range of products. Until fairly recently, there was always a need for at leat one windows system to act as the dev host. Now, with the switch to Eclipse based dev tools they can also use linux instead of Windows in this key area. Ok, they are not betting the farm on linux succeeding in this area but with each release the need to use windows grows less and less. We don't need Outlook on Linux. What we need is a decent email/groupware client that will interact seamlessly with MS Exchange that provides all the functionality of Outlook but without the underlying problems that it has. What bugs me about Office 2003 is that outlook had lost its ability to export the account settings. What you have to use is the office exporter which produces a file which is a horrible missmash of Binary & XML (no the binary is not wrapped in XML) that only the office imported can read. I know this is part of the M$ lock in policy but previous versions of lookout so that other email clients can read them easily. So now, you have to import them manually. I get really annoyed with M$ when the go on about their interoperability policy. It if nothing more than pure FUD. • by l3v1 (787564) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:27AM (#15837736) mazing lack of new and exciting software Yes, sire, I shalt bow before thee. Am I alone to think such opinions come from the usual thinking-to-be professionals who don't actually use those "exciting" software but find it fashionable to talk about having it and using it and knowing it, etc. ? What is "exciting software" anyway ? There are of course applications which have some purpose and are designed nicer, slicker than the others, some even are more usable than others, some are more professional, etc. Still, "new and exciting software" is a so broad and bland formulation that it makes the whole opinion unworthy of any serious consideration. Apart from the above, OSes other than Windows happen to have very many good applications for a wide variety of goals (and yes, the job and the goal is what defines what software to use, we don't just use a software because it's "exciting" and "new", unless the special family of what I usually call toy apps), and surprisingly (well, not for us) they are usually developed in a much faster pace than in the case of some other OS. Also, needs of the crowds and recognition of some missing niche software (and the implementation of it) usually happens more frequently and faster in the non-Windows world. If just talking about the number of maintained and developed apps, and the number of areas these applications target, then Linux is better performing in some of these areas than any other OS out there. There are probably a lot of people who at least once thought how nice would it be if this app existed also on Windows, and guess what, these wishes come true more frequently than not. In my world this is one of the biggest strenghts of FOSS development which also makes such developers much more evolved in my book, since they are mostly developing to be platform-agnostic. If I were wearing my troll-boots, I'd tell you where to go with those new and exciting software you so hardly seek, but I can't find them so there you go, all I can advise you now is to take a much broader point of view upon the Linux and FOSS world, formulate goals and try to find existing software to achieve your goals, and after experimentation you still feel the lack of those exciting pieces of software, than all you can do is search for other pastures where exciting-software-trees grow by the dozen. • by Chaffar (670874) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:28AM (#15837737) "Evolution is a very clumsy feeling program with a lack of fluidity. Getting it to work with the MS Exchange plugin works about half the time (tried it on many distributions) and it's just a pain to use in the first place." Go ask Microsoft why they lock down their products the way they do, it's not really the OSS community's fault. the fact remains that I am tired of having to boot back into my Windows install to do some pretty basic stuff. [...] There is one application that cannot be run at all because of its dependency on Internet Explorer - Outlook 2003. Well if you're sooo dependent on Microsoft products, and you admit it, then you should now understand WHY OSS is so important. We're seeking to empower the individuals, who in today's setup are at the mercy of software companies. And your experience of Linux has only highlighted even more this need to have an open alternative to Windows and its flagship "products". If you want to exclusively use Linux, then the first thing you need to learn to do is to COMPROMISE. Understand that you'll be better off not using MSN messenger or Outlook, and start looking at the alternatives. We're not here to emulate windows, we're here to offer a different desktop experience. As for the lack of new interesting things in the OSS world, well I'll just say that you haven't been looking hard enough. Not all the interesting stuff comes in a .deb or .rpm ... • What's to follow? (Score:4, Insightful) by Todd Knarr (15451) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:31AM (#15837746) Homepage I'm not sure why companies would need any special outline for Linux. That it's open-source is irrelevant for most software, really. If you're making a kernel module the issue comes into play, but very few things other than actual hardware devices need kernel modules. If you include GPL'd libraries in your software there's a licensing issue, but then if you include any libraries licensed from third parties you've got a licensing issue when you start distributing them and you're going to have to do some negotiating and cough up some money. I don't think there's any GPL'd libraries that apps on Linux have to use, so any app should be able to avoid the issue if they want to. The only thing left is integration into the system: • Installation of the software. Not much to say here. A simple tar file that can be unpacked and copied under /usr/local, or that's got an installation script that does the work, should work on any Unix out there including Linux. At worst you've got to add a library directory to /etc/ld.so.conf, but usually a small wrapper script that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH appropriately obviates the need for that. If you want to use the native packaging system you've got to build binary packages, but that's usually straightforward and covered in the documentation for each distro. • Integration into the system startup scripts. There's a couple of different layouts for the startup script directories, and each distro has it's own little customizations you have to accomodate for perfect integration (things like how the script should check for the software already being started during runlevel changes, stuff like that). But how much software really needs to be set running during startup? Most doesn't, but the few packages that do have some complexity on their hands. • Desktop integration. This isn't a Linux issue, it's a Gnome and KDE issue (those being the two major ones these days). Their Web sites have guides on how to do this right IIRC, and if you follow them it should work for that desktop on any platform the desktop runs on. Linux is simply another platform. • Integration with the desktop. Um, this is Unix. There is no single desktop. Any user on the system can run any desktop, and in fact run different desktops at different times. Best bet is to follow the guides for integration, check for each desktop and integrate with all that're installed, and provide a single executable (or a wrapper script) that a user can run from the command line that'll start your app. That last insures users can use your app without any desktop integration at all by simply manually creating a launcher for it where they want one. • Copy protection. This can be an issue. The world outside Windows is remarkably hostile to the sorts of copy-protection schemes seen in Windows software, and Linux isn't unique in this. License key servers can be used, but they tend to cause more headaches for your customers (even when working properly) than for pirates. Hardware keying is a pain since Unixes tend to hide the hardware so well the detailed information isn't readily available (you can get it, but it takes a fair amount of hackery). Have I missed anything? I don't think I have, and aside from the issue of copy protection none of the above needs any special communication or coordination between the software vendor and the Linux community or distributions to deal with beyond reading the relevant docs. Maybe it's that the vendors have a problem believing it can be that simple after all these years of dealing with the complexities of Windows? • by killjoe (766577) You don't have to do anything like that. If you just provide the binaries and give people permission they will happily package the thing up according to their distro. • Tell me about it (Score:3, Insightful) by loomis (141922) * on Thursday August 03, 2006 @02:33AM (#15837751) I am a novice linux user who is currently struggling through converting my computers completely to Ubuntu. It has really been a challenge for me, not so much due to anything wrong with Ubuntu, but because the "aftermarket" software just doesn't exist, or is really poor. For example, can you believe that there are no good graphical FTP clients for linux? It's true. I have been using gFTP, which most people consider to be the best one, for about a week. It crashes almost daily, isn't very good option-wise, and it is soooo slow. I want something simple, say something like WSFTP for windows, and lo and behold it just doesn't exist. Seems remarkable that a good graphical FTP client doesn't even exist. The same can be said for a Mavis-esque typing program, and a simple photo editor like the immensely popular Irfanview. Indeed these are the stumbling blocks for me. Not the distribution, but rather the software inavailability. • Re:Tell me about it (Score:2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Linux_software _equivalent_to_Windows_software [linuxquestions.org] should help nicely. for gui ftp clients: Kasablanca, GFTP, KBear, FireFTP Konqueror for IfranView: XnView, GQView for a Mavis-esque typing program: KTouch and GNU Typist • Re:Tell me about it (Score:5, Informative) by PeterBrett (780946) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:18AM (#15837860) Homepage It's called Konqueror. It has these wonderful things called 'ioslaves' which can be accessed by special 'protocols'. Not only does it support browsing the local filesystem and the web, but also ftp sites (ftp://ftp.gnu.org), secure ftp (sftp://blah), info and man page viewing (info:/libc, man:/fstab), and a whole host of other resources. And it presents a unified and self-consistent interface to all of them. There are fantastic GUI clients for FTP on Linux, and sometimes you don't realize you're already using one on a day to day basis (assuming you're a KDE user). • Re:Tell me about it (Score:3, Informative) by _Sprocket_ (42527) Actually - Konq and ioslaves is one of the several reasons I've gone all-Linux at work. It's a nifty feature. And not only do ioslaves work within Konq, they also work for many KDE applications from the file open dialog. • Businesses do not really care if something is open source or closed source or whatever. This is a fallacy. Businesses care about ROI, pure and simple. And when you care about ROI you want to maximize your returns for a given size of effort. Which in our case, in a very watered down analysis, would mean: 1. Tapping into high-margin customer segments (server software, niche workstation software) 2. Tapping into the mass market (read: consumer) In case 1. Linux is King (TM). Look at Amazon, Google, e-Bay, with mo • Which plan looks most promising to a typical entrepreneur? 1. write up a great idea for a proprietary product, stressing that it will run on millions of Windows desktops; 2. look for venture capital; 3. develop and market product; 4. profit!!! 1. write up a great idea for an open source product, stressing that geeks will love it; 2. look for venture capital; 3. develop and market product; 4. attract praise for its open and innovative nature!!! There is some tremendous stuff running in the Linux/BSD world (especially server or • by dbIII (701233) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:08AM (#15837839) I think the article should be entitled "The future of MS Windows compataible closed source software and linux". There is plenty of other stuff in the feilds of geophysics, engineering, databases and system integration that is closed source but runs on a variety of platforms - including linux. A lot of it has done so for more than five years. A lot of it I wish was open source (eg. a closed source seismic data processing app has had a lot of bug fixes recently - but these won't be released to customers like my users until next year) but I just have to be happy that it exists. There are more uses for a computer other than a glass typewriter, a ledger book or a toy. One last comment about the example - Outlook not so good. Nearly every other email client stores data in a form that can be recovered by a even a text editor or by tools from the same vendor - not an obfiscated database that requires dodgy shareware tools to fix. • by jeswin (981808) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:15AM (#15837853) Homepage Here is a point many Slashdotters are missing, when they see the word "Closed Source". Closed source should not be defined as anything packaged in disks or as installable on the local machines. The majority of closed source is now disguised as Web Applications. When we raise arms against Microsoft, we are supportive or at best silent about the dozens of useful web applications that spring up. Google Maps, Spreadsheets, BaseCamp and the rest are as closed source as Microsoft are. And so are the algorithms that power things like search engines. As Google and others bring newer applications on the Web, and as the desktop applications get replaced by Web Applications we will have "Closed Source 2.0". Actually they might be worse that the current breed of closed source. - When Web Applications shut down you have nothing! - You dont have code to reverse engineer - Hell, you don't even have the data with you - You have no idea what they do with your data! - Can we depend on their security? • by dbIII (701233) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @03:27AM (#15837874) OK - so you have a computer network with different machines. You want Outlook on your screen - no problem - just export it via X windows from your MS windows box to wherever you are. You mean that hasn't worked since NT 3.51? OK - it looks like you are stuck with MS windows since VNC is too much of a pain for constant use - but you can do things the other way with an X server on your windows box letting you run things remotely at full speed on other machines on the network. Exceed, cygwin and many other implementations of X Windows on MS Windows let you do this. The single user non network aware model still exists with MS Windows - the idea of exporting an entire terminal session is still about as clunky as an IBM 3270 terminal from decades past. Thankfully it only cuts one way - almost everything else works OK with MS Windows over a network even if MS Windows works with practicly nothing else. • by jkrise (535370) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:19AM (#15837994) Journal Replying to this Flamebait Troll of an article? This is what I was doing when I refereshed my Slashdot page and found this chump spewing misinformation: In our site, we've got Active Directory for a group of 700 systems, and about 1200 users. I think Craptive Directory is a better word for this piece of junk. We tried migrating from Win2K server to Win2K3, and the damn thing called domain-prep and forest-prep threw out an error page some 500 meters long. Smoke's coming outta' my ears just reading reams and reams of error messages. So, I ask the security chap.. What if we migrate to a better Directory server.. we're thinking of OpenLDAP or Fedora Directory Services. I asked this bloke to backup Active Directory, just in case. He says It Can't Be Done!!! It's just not possible to take a backup of the bloody damn POS s/w that's used to store the company's most valuable information. It's JUST NOT POSSIBLE TO transfer it to a better config. or even upgrade to a higher version smoothly. Seriously, why people ever choose Crapware like Active Directory, Exchange, LookOut or Office is beyond me. And so, we're sitting down, thinking long hard thoughts... wondering what we should be doing, to ensure we're fine, atleast 2 years from now... some points: (Actually this bloke Matt Hartley may have done us a big favour - he's made all the wrong arguments and points in one piece!) I. Use ONLY open standards and specs. No compromise on this at any cost. 1a. We've decided to go in with HTML for 'documents'. Why do we need docs? We need to look at them, we need to print them, we need to email them so others can see, and we need to be able to write tools that can manipulate OUR data in OUR docs. And so, it's gonna be HTML from here on out. The Nvu editor seems the best suited for this thing, so we're going with it. 1b. We don't use spreadsheets a lot. For those rare cases, we've decided to go in for Gnumeric, and csv as the format. No more of those bloody macros in the a/cs dept. We've developed all their apps on a server, we're giving them Import and Export to cvf where needed, and that's it. 1c. PowerPoint: We've told the suits to go in with Impress for the time being... under OpenOffice. Until we figure out the best Open Source tool for presentations, that works to Open Standards, that is. All told, we have very few suits.. less than a dozen, so let them start picking up these skills NOW! II. Groupware: No more fiddling around with the Exchange Server or the Notes server trying to figure out how to build some site-specific features we need. No point. We've figured the only thing MS or IBM care about is licensing money, not adherence to standards, delivering something useful to us, or anything. They just want license money, so we're looking elsewhere. We're also trying to build in some CRM functions... we heard Dynamics works only under Craptive Directory, so we're giving it a miss. SugarCRM seems useless without their commercial license, so we're ditching it too. We're experimenting with vTiger, Drupal, Mambo, phpBB and Moodle.. yes, Moodle. It looks the easiest of the lot to actually build community-oriented features, and has the most elegant of interfaces. No need for any client, no Evolution, no Zimbra, no nothing. Just a customised Groupware client that does the job for us. That works the way we like. That helps our users relate to what software we provide them. So, we asked ourselves, what are we doing with our email system? 1. Announcements, Circulars and Notifications: We've decided to have them at the top of our Groupware page. Every intended recipient to indicate they've read the message.. some option for a feedback. No more tons of "Read" messages to the sender, no more Acknowledgement emails... no nothing. Just a one-page report to the Sender of which users have Read, Not Read, and Comments. That's it for this category of mails. 2. Calendaring: We figured out this is not really important for all users, and the few who need it, need it in diffe • by pandrijeczko (588093) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @04:21AM (#15838000) And with me only two score and four years on this earth, there I was thinking that software only had to be "useful" and "usable". Look, I have no problem with people using Windows (I do myself a little), I have no problem with people disliking command-line tools in Windows or Linux but can both types of people please STOP imposing their view of the world on the rest of us! Now! The fact is that NOBODY (repeat N-O-B-O-D-Y) can appreciate the power of a Linux or UNIX operating system until you dive into the command line, learn shell, Python, Perl or another scripting language and start putting together INCREDIBLY POWERFUL AND VERSATILE TOOLS yourself. For the uninitiated, from the shell prompt in Linux or UNIX you can log into remote systems, view web pages, burn CDs, rip CDs, play MP3s, convert images, perform countless system diagnostics, edit files, etc. etc. On top of this, you can do some of the most amazingly powerful text manipulation using complex regular expressions that end up looking like a spider has crawled across your screen with inky feet. Admittedly, to a GUI-based user, none of this looks particularly "exciting" but when all of these tasks can be combined in countless ways within scripts, NOTHING (repeat N-O-T-H-I-N-G) within a GUI environment comes CLOSE for automation and sheer power. No, I'm not a command line zealot. I believe it's up to the user to decide what software/OS they are comfortable with, I personally have favourite tools in Windows, Gnome, KDE, BASH and even MS-DOS and I just use whatever I need to use to get a job done as quickly as possible. But the fact is that the UNIX command line is the most common place for me to work in. But to all the uninitiated out there, please do not voice opinions on a subject you do not fully understand. Linux and Open Source is NOT waging some kind of anti-Windows war with the goal of total Microsoft destruction - it's an ALTERNATIVE way of doing things where everything is done in an open fashion and the sole aim is to write useful, usable but NOT NECESSARILY PRETTY software, nothing more. And if you're waiting for Linux to drop into your lap as a ready-packaged alternative to Windows that you can immediately start using like Windows from day one, then I'm afraid you're in for a long wait. To become a Linux user means taking more time to learn about how your computer works and, to be an effective Linux user, ramping up your learning curve so that you know how to take best advantage of the wealth of excellent free software that has become available to you. If you're not willing to devote that time then, so be it. Stick with what you are comfortable with and enjoy it with my blessing - just don't be so quick to judge the rest of us. • MythTV (Score:3, Insightful) by RoboJ1M (992925) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @05:09AM (#15838094) I'd just like to say my PC was propping up dust until I discovered MythTV. After I read the myth features page I immediately backed up my personal stuff, wiped WinXP and installed Ubuntu Breezy. I've not been this excited about computing since I went to university and started using the web for the first time. I was disappointed when I learned of all the limitations of XP MCE (why can't I play a DVD on one machine and watch it on a different TV?? It's mine isn't it?) and Mr. Demerijan off of the Inq mentioned mythtv to me. Now I dream of multi TB servers with many DVB-T and S tuners and diddy mini ITX boxes under every TV. Some day, eh? Not exciting my rosy red arse. • by Lumpy (12016) on Thursday August 03, 2006 @07:29AM (#15838443) Homepage They are busy patenting every obvious thing on the planet trying to make sure that something exciting and origional CANT be created. OSS programmers do not have multi million dollar LEgal teams to fight the asshole companies that believe they own exclusive rights to something as trivial as a bubble sort or something that has been done for hundreds of years but now "on a computer" so either the programmers must work in secret and release in a country that is not stupid enough to have redicilous IP laws or risk getting sued. When you go out to buy, don't show your silver.	http://slashdot.org/story/06/08/03/0349226/the-future-of-closed-source-software-and-linux?sdsrc=nextbtmnext	<urn:uuid:daa88f5e-ff33-4ee8-b76e-0dfb115ae6e4>	en	0.96101	0.099742
Reasearch Awards nomination Email updates Open Access Research article Jacob Riveron12, Tamara Boto13 and Esther Alcorta1* Author affiliations 1 Department of Functional Biology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Oviedo, Oviedo, 33006, Spain 2 Present address: Vector Group, Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, Pembroke PI, Liverpool, Merseyside, L3 5QA, UK 3 Present address: Department of Neuroscience, The Scripps Research Institute, Jupiter, Florida, 33458, USA For all author emails, please log on. Citation and License Received:10 August 2012 Accepted:5 April 2013 Published:17 April 2013 © 2013 Riveron et al.; licensee BioMed Central Ltd. Environmental temperature directly affects the concentrations of chemicals in the gas phase. Therefore, if the olfactory system does not physiologically adapt to environmental conditions, it may provide inadequate information about the distance to or direction of odor sources. Previous reports have shown at the behavioral level that temperature induces changes in olfactory sensitivity in Drosophila melanogaster. These changes are initiated in the main olfactory receptor organs, the antennae. In this work, we attempted to identify the particular genes responsible for olfactory adaptation to increasing temperatures in these organs based on current knowledge of the molecular basis of olfactory reception. Whole-genome transcriptional responses to transitory temperature shifts from 21-30°C were analyzed in the third antennal segments of Drosophila. More than 53% of the genome was expressed in these organs; this percentage increased slightly (55%) after heat treatment. However, the expression levels increased for 26%, decreased for 21% and remained constant for 53% of the expressed genes. Analysis of the changes produced in 389 genes related to heat response and olfactory reception, according to the current functional annotations of the Drosophila gene set, showed significant differences in 95 of these genes, which are involved in the heat response (23), perireceptor events in olfaction (50), olfactory and gustatory receptors (18) and G-proteins and transduction cascades (4). Gene expression was altered in response to environmental heat in the antennae of Drosophila by increasing or decreasing expression. Different acclimation patterns emerged for reception through the basiconic, trichoid and coeloconic sensilla. Changes in genes with a central role in olfactory reception, such as orco, may account for part of the acclimation reported at the behavioral level. Olfaction; Olfactory acclimation; Olfactory reception; Environmental temperature; Drosophila melanogaster; Microarray analysis; Olfactory reception genes Organisms live in a dynamic environment in which climatic factors change continuously, not only between different seasons but also during the same day or in the different microhabitats in a small area. In this continuously changing environment, sensory systems in general and the olfactory system in particular must be able to adjust to provide accurate information to organisms [1]. The environmental temperature affects the concentrations of chemicals in the gas phase. Thus, rising temperatures increase the volatility and concentrations of odorants in the air. Several reports have addressed the ability of the olfactory system to adapt to high odorant concentrations in the environment [1]. In Drosophila, central [2,3] and peripheral elements of the olfactory system are responsible for such adaptation [4,5]. Furthermore, it has been shown through behavioral tests that temperature influences olfactory sensitivity in Drosophila melanogaster[6]. The biological effects of olfactory adaptation to temperatures fluctuating within the normal range, from 15 to 30°C, have been reported. At intermediate odorant concentrations, the environmental temperature and olfactory sensitivity appear to be negatively correlated. These results support the notion that adaptation of the olfactory system provides accurate information to the animal, compensating for modifications of chemical volatility. Further studies involving the main olfactory receptor organs, the antennae, have shown that changes in olfactory responses begin during the reception process and appear at the neuron receptor level [7]. The same pattern of responses has been observed whether the temperature shift lasts a few hours or several days. Therefore, searching for gene expression changes, which are most likely necessary for long-lasting responses, may help to shed light on the basis of olfactory adaptation to heat at the reception level. To elucidate the molecular mechanisms involved in this process, we performed an analysis of differential gene expression in the antennae using microarrays. Whole-genome gene expression arrays have been used previously in Drosophila to identify genes that are responsible for adaptation to high and low temperatures. For example, gene expression patterns have been analyzed in the following contexts: a) selection experiments for heat and cold resistance [8,9]; b) Drosophila lines subjected to different heat treatments [10]; and c) natural populations corresponding to different geographical locations [11]. However, in these studies, emphasis was placed on global issues concerning the effect of heat stress on the whole organism and not on the particular response of the olfactory system. Some attention has also been paid to the changes in the transcriptional profiles of olfactory genes under different biological conditions [12] and in response to special treatments. Due to the social impact of alcoholism, several microarray studies have focused on understanding the molecular changes that occur after exposure to ethanol using various model organisms [13]. Thus, it is known that in D. melanogaster, exposure to ethanol causes a decrease in the expression of genes affecting olfaction, among other changes [14-17]. Other studies related to olfactory gene expression have focused on insect vectors of human diseases, such as the malaria mosquito, Anopheles gambiae[18-21]. Thus, the differential expression of odorant-binding–protein genes (OBPs) has been found to be related to the eating behavior of male and female mosquitoes, depending on their metabolic status [22,23]. In this report, we concentrate on the genome expression changes that appear in the main olfactory receptor organs of Drosophila after exposure to high temperatures. With this aim, wild-type Canton-S flies were subjected to 48-hour treatments at 30°C. First, we provide a general overview of the genes whose expression is most altered due to heat, based on the Gene Ontology (GO) functional groups defined in Drosophila. Then, to examine the processes related to the olfactory function in greater detail, we used a direct approach, selecting specific tissues and conducting a priori selection of the genes to be examined via microarray analysis using literature-based functional information. Differential gene expression analyses of the third antennal segments were performed to compare control and treated flies. Special attention was paid to those genes related to olfactory reception and heat response, which were represented by 389 probesets. These genes may play an important role in the olfactory adaptation of insects to heat, which has been demonstrated functionally at the whole-individual level [6] and in the olfactory receptor organs [7]. Finally, we tested the contribution to the adaptation to heat of the orco gene, which is a gene related to olfactory reception that is expressed in more than 70% of olfactory receptor neurons [24]. With this goal, we simulated the expression changes in this gene due to heat via genetic manipulation and studied the functional consequences in response to odor. Results and discussion RT-PCR validation The microarray results were validated via real time-PCR for 9 genes, representing approximately 10% of the genes selected based on their potential interest from the larger pool of genes demonstrating significant changes in expression in the microarray analysis (95/389). βtubulin60D was used as an internal control. An equal efficiency for every pair of primers compared to the controls was confirmed, and the fold-change levels were determined. The results were consistent with the microarray analysis data with respect to the direction and amount of change, 5 of which were up-regulated, while 4 were down-regulated (Table 1). Regression analysis of the qPCR fold-change levels compared to the correspondent microarray results for the 9 genes yielded the following regression line y = 0.775× + 0.206 with a highly significant correlation value of r2 = 0.999 (Ftest = 6641.86, P < 0.0001). Table 1. Expression changes due to the heat treatment measured using microarrays or RT-PCR Microarray analysis A total of 8 microarrays were analyzed, 4 for each group of control or heat-treated flies. Pools of approximately 4,000 antennae per array were used (see Methods). Prior to the gene expression analysis, the samples were paired in a dendrogram based on a comparison of the expression profiles of all the genes (Figure 1A). The antennae samples collected from heat-treated flies formed a separate and distant cluster from the control samples, which aggregated in a second cluster. This observation reflects the effectiveness of the treatment and the importance of the temperature changes in the regulation of gene expression. thumbnailFigure 1. General microarray analysis. A) Dendrogram for clustering experiments using centered correlation and averaged linkage. The data from the 8 microarrays were included: 4 under control conditions and 4 after heat treatment. B) Volcano plot of the microarray results. Light blue region: significantly decreased expression, indicated a reduction of 50%. Light red: region of increased expression, indicating a 2-fold increase in gene expression compared to control. Three levels of significance are indicated by tone. Red and blue points represent the 80 genes that showed the largest changes in expression (10% of the genes that change significantly at P < 0.001) under the heat treatment. Figure 1B provides a volcano plot of the microarray results. Both increased and decreased gene expression changes occurred due to heat treatment. The expression values that decreased by less than 1/2 compared with the treatment are included in the blue area, while increases of more than two fold are shown in the light red region. In both regions, the genes that exhibited the greatest changes in expression due to the heat treatment have been marked with colored dots; these genes will be described below. Next, we focused on three separate issues: a) ascertaining whether a given gene was expressed in the antennae in the experimental and control groups; b) obtaining a general overview of the genes whose expression was changed most due to the treatment and identifying the functional groups to which they belong; and c) determining the differences in the mean expression of particular groups of genes (olfactory and thermal stress-related) between the heat-treated and the control groups. We note that a gene was considered to be expressed in the antennae in each group when it appeared as “Present” in the statistical detection calls for the four replicates in the group provided by the Affymetrix GeneChip® microarray analysis software (see the RNA extraction and microarrays subsection in the Methods section). The raw microarray data have been deposited in the following public database: ArrayExpress at the European Bioinformatics Institute (EBI), webcite; Accession number: E-MTAB-1228. Total gene expression in the third antennal segment in Drosophila The third antennal segments are the main olfactory receptor organs in Drosophila. These segments express genes related to olfactory reception as well as other genes with more general functions. As a first approach, we studied how many genes were expressed in the antennae. Of the 14,445 probe sets encoding a transcript in Drosophila, 7,774 (54%) were expressed in the control group, while in the experimental group subjected to the heat treatment, 7,957 (55%) were “Present” (Figure 2A). More than half of the genome was expressed in the Drosophila third antennal segment, showing the same range of gene expression (54%-63%) observed in the chemosensory appendages and even in other tissues (bodies) in Anopheles gambiae[25]. thumbnailFigure 2. Gene expression in the third antennal segment of Drosophila melanogaster. A) Percentage of probe sets that show expression under the control and heat treatment conditions among the total genome. B) Global effects of the heat treatment in antennae, measured as the percentage of probe sets that showed expression. Based on the total values obtained, it appeared that heat might induce an increase of gene expression. To test this hypothesis, we analyzed the changes in gene expression levels due to heat treatment (Figure 2B). A total of 3,846 probe sets showed a change in expression because of the treatment (FDR < 0.1), among which 2,135 (26%) increased, and 1,711 (21%) decreased. Again, the overall expression levels appeared to be higher in the heat-treated than in the control group. However, both groups showed both increased and decreased gene expression after the heat treatment, thereby excluding the possibility of a general rule relating increased gene expression to temperature increases. Functional GO groups most affected by heat treatment To obtain an idea of the main functional processes affected by heat, we analyzed the genes whose expression showed the greatest changes following heat treatment. We studied a 10% of the genes that change significantly at P < 0.001. They undergo fold changes > 2.6 including both increases and decreases in expression (Additional file 1: Table S1) for a total of 80 genes. As shown by the colored dots in Figure 1B, increased expression was observed for approximately 2/3 of the genes, while a decrease was observed for approximately 1/3. Additional file 1: Table S1. Table listing the 80 genes that showed the greatest changes in expression in response to heat (10% of the genes that change significantly at P < 0.001), either increasing (black) or decreasing (blue). In both cases the fold change correspond to the ratio of the more abundant to the less abundant group, with or without heat treatment. Format: XLS Size: 147KB Download file This file can be viewed with: Microsoft Excel ViewerOpen Data These data are summarized in Figure 3 based on functional groups of GO biological process (information in GO molecular function and cellular component for each gene is also presented in Additional file 1: Table S1), distinguishing genes showing increased or decreased expression using different colors. Approximately 1/3 of these genes have unknown functions. The other defined groups were represented by 4–9 genes each, with no obvious over-representation observed. The residual, heterogeneous group included 15 genes. As expected under heat treatment, many genes from the HSP family (6 genes), which are associated with the response to heat, were found on this list and were always over-expressed. The gene that presented the largest expression change was Hsp67b (fold change > 32), followed by Hsp70Ab (> 10). thumbnailFigure 3. Gene Ontology (GO) groups based on biological process for the 80 genes that showed the greatest changes in expression under heat treatment. Additionally, some genes related to metabolic processes were present on the list (9 genes), but not all of these genes were overexpressed, indicating that both activation and inhibition of metabolic processes are important in the response to heat. The detected genes corresponding to the sensory perception of chemical stimuli mainly encoded odorant-binding proteins (4 genes). In the group of oxidation-reduction processes/responses to toxins, there were several genes previously associated with other perireceptor processes in olfactory reception, such as genes encoding members of the Cyp family (4 genes) and Glutathione-S-transferase. However, all of these groups included genes that were greatly over-expressed or strongly inhibited, and none of them showed a clear pattern of expression (Additional file 1: Table S1). Expression of olfactory and thermal stress genes To obtain a greater understanding of the molecular basis of the adaptation of olfactory reception to temperature and considering that small expression changes in key genes could affect olfaction beyond quantitative expectations, we studied particular groups of genes that encode elements that may affect “a priori” this process. A total of 389 genes were selected based on the literature (because in most cases, each gene was represented by a single probe set, the terms gene and probe set will be used interchangeably in the text). The complete gene list and the original results are included in Additional file 2: Table S2. Table 2 summarizes the results obtained for each of the following groups: a) genes related to thermal stress, including those encoding heat shock proteins (HSPs), cold shock domain proteins (CSDPs) and other thermal stress-related genes; and b) genes related to olfactory reception, such as those encoding odorant binding proteins (OBPS), cytochrome P-450 mono-oxygenases (referred to as CYPs or P450 enzymes), UDP-Glucuronosyl transferases (UGTs), glutathione-S-transferases (GSTs), olfactory receptors (ORs and IRs), taste receptors (GRs), G-proteins, members of the cAMP signal transduction cascade and components of the IP3 pathway. Additional file 2: Table S2. Table listing the results for the 389 probe sets that were included in the detailed microarray analysis. The raw microarray data have been deposited in the following public database: ArrayExpress at the European Bioinformatics Institute (EBI), webcite. MAGE-TAB Accession number: E-MTAB-1228. Format: XLS Size: 160KB Download file This file can be viewed with: Microsoft Excel ViewerOpen Data Table 2. Summary of the changes induced by the heat treatment in a group of 389 probe sets corresponding to a) thermal stress and b) olfactory reception genes Among the 389 probe sets that were analyzed, 235 showed expression in at least the four samples from the experimental or the control groups. Of these 235 genes, a total of 95 exhibited modified expression in response to heat treatment, either presenting increased (52) or decreased (43) expression. In 8 out of the 14 groups, the changes within the group were coincident in their direction in all of the significant cases. However, for some groups, very few genes showed significant expression changes; this observation is described in further detail below. Genes related to thermal responses Several groups of genes have been associated with the response to different temperatures. They are related to the following products: heat shock proteins (HSPs); cold shock domain proteins (CSDPs), which are similar to those observed in the cold shock proteins (CSPs) of bacteria; and other genes related to the thermo-protection function. In our study, we decided to include these genes as an internal control of appropriate heat treatment application in the experimental group because it is known that, especially for hsps, their expression levels increase with temperature [26-28]. In general, approximately half of the probe sets encoding products of response to heat stress showed increased expression, although there was also a significant fraction, approximately 17%, that showed decreased expression. These data confirmed that the response to heat stress is mediated not only by the overexpression of certain thermo-protectors genes but also by the inhibition of the expression of others. As for the different groups we studied, it should be noted that virtually all of the genes encoding HSPs present in the tissue displayed increased expression (15 out of 18 probesets) in individuals that were subjected to heat shock (Table 3). These results were expected if we consider the role this group of genes plays in protection against heat shock. Specifically, hsp83 and DnaJ-1 (also known as hsp40), which showed significantly increased expression in the experimental group, have been related to the protection of synaptic transmission [29]. According to these results, the heat treatment was correctly applied to the flies. Table 3. Thermal stress genes As for the 4 genes of the CSDPs group, 3 of them, unr, yps and CG9705, are present on the antennae of adult individuals, but only CG9705 showed significant differences, decreasing its expression after applying the heat shock. We observed opposite expression behaviors of the heat and cold shock protein-encoding genes in response to temperature treatments, as was expected. Finally, 7 other genes related to thermo-protection functions changed their expression significantly. However, they belong to a heterogeneous group, and the expression of these genes either increased or decreased. In this group, we include the genes anon-23 Da, smp-30, per, catsup, adh and two different transcripts of the gpdh gene, Fbtr0079147 and Fbtr0079146 (transcript annotation in Flybase), which displayed opposite expression behaviors in response to heat. Down regulation of per gene expression can be related to a previous study that reported delayed expression of the morning oscillation peak of per at high temperatures [30]. Genes encoding components of perireceptor events The so-called perireceptor events in olfactory reception occur in the lymph of the olfactory sensilla [31]. Odorant binding proteins (OBPS), Cytochrome P-450 mono-oxygenases (CYPs), UDP-Glucuronosyl transferases (UGTs) and glutathione-S-transferases (GSTs) are proteins that have been associated with these processes. In addition, some proteins related to the detection of pheromones that also function as OBPS have been described in other Drosophila species, which have been designated PBPRPs (Pheromone Binding Proteins-Related Proteins) and LUSH. We will also describe the analysis of these groups (Table 4). Table 4. Olfactory reception genes: perireceptor events Following the heat treatment, 47% (50/106) of the probe sets related to proteins involved in perireceptor processes occurring in the antennae showed a change in gene expression. In 21% of the cases, gene expression increased, and in 26%, it decreased. Approximately 58% (11/19) of the Obps genes present in the antenna presented a change in expression after heat treatment, although there was no single consistent pattern of change observed. Expression increased for 7 genes (obp19b, obp57b, obp56e, obp56d, obp56a, obp44a, obp57c) and decreased for 4 (obp18a, obp57a, obp49a, obp83g). Attempts to classify the OBPs based on the specific odorants whose reception they mediate failed to clarify these results. It has been reported that OBPs function in a combinatorial manner [32], and there is some odorant overlap in the profiles of the following OBPs: a) obp18a and obp56a and b) 57a and 57b [33], which showed opposite expression responses to heat. Among the genes involved in pheromone detection at the perireceptor level, the intensity values for the corresponding probe sets were extremely high, even under control conditions. In this study, there were 3 genes that showed significantly decreased expression after the heat treatment: pbprp4, pbprp3 and lush, the last two of which are expressed in the lymph of the trichoid sensilla [32]. The expression levels of other genes in this group also appeared to be reduced by heat treatment, although these differences were not significant. This reduction was in agreement with the changes reported in response to high concentrations of ethanol [14,17]. There was a total of 24 genes encoding CYPs that showed altered expression in response to heat treatment (44%), with expression increasing significantly for 10 of these genes and decreasing for 14. Of the genes encoding UGTs, 3 genes, ugt, ugt35a and ugt86Da, exhibited a small, but significant decrease in expression when subjected to heat shock, while the rest of the UGTs remained unchanged. Finally, when we analyzed the GSTs, 5 genes, gstE5, gstD9, gstD3, gstE6 and gstD8, were found to show significantly increased expression when individuals were subjected to 48 hours of heat treatment, while 4 genes, gstD10, gstS1, gstE3 and gstD6, presented decreased expression. Increases in the expression of gst genes have been related to the development of chemical resistance in many insect species and mammalian systems [34] as well as in the development of alcohol preferences in rats [13,34,35]. Genes encoding molecular receptors Until 2009, the ORs were the only olfactory receptors that had been described in Drosophila[36,37]. However, another 3 taste receptors present in the antennae have now been reported to bind to odor molecules [38-40]: GR10a, GR21a and GR63a. In 2009, a new family of genes that encode ionotropic receptors, the IRS, was reported to function as molecular receptors involved in smell in Drosophila[41], and their olfactory profile was described [42]. In the present study, we analyzed all members of the three gene families described in antennae: the or, ir and gr gene families. After heat shock treatment, 29% of the probe sets for olfactory receptors showed a change in intensity (18% increased, while 11% decreased) (Table 5). Table 5. Olfactory reception genes: receptors If we separate the observations for all of the antennal or genes, only or98b, which corresponds to the ab6B type ORN (olfactory receptor neuron), did not appear in any of the 8 arrays used here (Additional file 2: Table S2). Additionally, or2a, of the at3 ORN, was not found in some of the arrays and was therefore considered absent. The absence of these receptors in our samples was most likely due to the techniques and methods that were used here not being sufficiently sensitive to detect their messenger RNAs. Among the or members present in our samples, 4 genes, or47b, or43a, or13a and or88a, showed significantly increased expression under heat treatment, while 5 of them, or22b, or23a, or69a, or47a and co-receptor or83b (now called orco) [43], presented decreased expression. Although it initially appeared that there was no unique pattern of change regarding the expression of or genes in response to high temperatures, a common profile emerged when we considered the individual or members: 3 out of the 4 non-general or genes showing significantly decreased expression due to heat shock (or22b, or69a and or47a) corresponded to basiconic sensilla (ab3, ab9 and ab5, respectively), while the ORs exhibiting increased expression (or47b, or43a, or88a and 13a) corresponded to trichoid or intermediate sensilla (at4, at3, at4 and ai1). However, the correlation was not complete, and receptor or23a, which showed down-regulation under heat, was expressed in trichoid sensillum at2. On the other hand, down-regulation of the expression of a single gene, the common co-receptor orco, could control the number of ORs present in the membrane of the ORNs, according to its proposed role in directing receptor migration inside the cell [24]. Interestingly, a reduction of the level of orco expression has been reported in response to high concentrations of ethanol [14]. Because increasing temperature enhances the odorant concentration in the gas phase, these results may suggest that the co-receptor expression level may be involved in adaptation to high odorant concentrations. Regarding the ir genes, we detected all of the previously described genes in the antenna, except ir93a. Of the 13 probe sets that were detected, 4 genes, ir64a, ir76b, ir76a, ir21a, showed significantly increased expression after heat shock, representing 30.77% of the total. A common pattern of increased gene expression in response to heat can be established for these genes. ir76b encodes the co-receptor of the ORNs of the four types of coeloconic sensilla, ac1-ac4, and may therefore influence odorant sensitivity in all of them. The gene products of ir64a and ir76a have been related to other co-receptors, IR8a in the sacculus and IR25a in sensilla ac4, respectively. Finally, ir21a has been reported to show expression at the arista and perhaps sacculus III. It has been noted that aristal neurons function as thermosensors [44], but the role of IR21a, if any, in mediating physiological responses to temperature changes, is unknown [42]. Finally, of the 66 probe sets related to gr genes that were examined, only 11 were present in the antennal tissue; these included the three that were previously described: gr10a, gr21a and gr63a. Among these genes, only gr21a, which is related to CO2 reception [39,40], showed a significant increase in expression associated with heat, while the other two exhibited no change. Of the other 8 probe sets present in the antenna, 4 showed a significant change in expression when Drosophila were subjected to heat shock, either increasing, as observed for gr28b and gr64e, or decreasing, as observed for gr43a and gr64c. Genes related to transduction cascades Although the direct involvement of transduction cascades in olfactory reception is still under discussion in Drosophila, some behavioral data suggest a role for the cAMP and DAG/IP3 pathways [45-47]. Therefore, we included some of the genes that mediate these processes in our analyses, such as genes encoding G-proteins and others related to either the cAMP or the DAG/IP3 cascade (Table 6). Table 6. Olfactory reception genes: transduction cascades The results of the analysis of the presence of G-proteins in antennae were in agreement with those reported in previous studies [48]. All of the genes encoding the alpha, beta and gamma subunits were expressed in the antenna, except for Gbeta76c and some transcripts of Galpha49B, a variant of Gqalpha. Two of these genes showed a significant change in expression following heat shock: Ggamma30A and Galpha73B (Gf). There were two probe sets encoding the first gene, one representing all known transcripts of the gene (Fbtr0079795, Fbtr0079796, Fbtr0079797) and another that encodes only one (Fbtr009797). Because the latter probe displayed low intensity values, indicating a lack of or very weak expression, the observed differences in gene expression must have been due to the action of the other transcripts (Fbtr0079795 and/or Fbtr0079796). Both Ggamma30A and Galpha73B showed decreased expression in the heat-treated group compared to control group. Among the 9 genes in the cAMP pathway that were studied, only one gene encoding a protein kinase, pka-C3, showed a significantly higher intensity in the probe set after the heat shock treatment. Finally, of the 12 probe sets related to the DAG/IP3 transduction cascade that were examined, dgkepsilon was the only gene that showed a significant difference, presenting increased expression in the heat-treated group compared to control group. The role of the dgkepsilon gene product also involves protein kinase activity. It has been proposed that the balance of phosphorylation is often critical for regulating enzyme function, mediating protein–protein interactions, altering the subcellular localization of proteins and controlling protein stability. Furthermore, kinases and phosphatases may work together to modulate the strength of a signal [49]. However, it must be kept in mind that transduction cascades mediate many cellular processes. Behavioral consequences of the changes in orco gene expression The microarray analysis identified a set of genes related to heat shock as well as olfaction that showed altered expression in response to temperature increases. To determine whether the expression changes observed for some of these genes can account for a portion of the previously described olfactory acclimation [6,7], we performed additional experiments. First, we chose a single gene that may affect olfaction in a generalized manner. This type of gene is very difficult to find at the receptor level because of the combinatorial coding of olfactory information, which utilizes many olfactory receptors with differential specificities to capture a single odor. The orco gene encodes a co-receptor that dimerizes with the ORs and is expressed in more than 70% of ORNs [50]. Next, we attempted to simulate the change in expression that was produced by the heat treatment (a decrease for the orco gene) via genetic manipulation using RNAi and studied the behavioral consequences on olfaction (Figure 4B). Heat-induced olfactory sensitivity changes that were especially apparent at intermediate repellent concentrations were noted as a partial sensitivity loss [6]. thumbnailFigure 4. Changes in the olfactory preference in the T-maze due to heat. A) The repellent responses to 10-1.5 vol/vol ethanol in water are reduced in wildtype flies due to the heat treatment [IO = number flies on odor side/(number flies on odor + control sides); IO > 0.5 indicates attraction, IO = 0.5 indicates indifference, and 0 < IO < 0.5 indicates repellency). B) Olfactory responses to 10-1.5 ethanol in flies with reduced levels of the Orco co-receptor compared with control flies of the same genetic background. C) The repellent responses to 10-0.5 ethanol are reduced in orco null mutants due to the heat treatment. D) Temperature protocol for the control C and experimental E flies shown in panels A) and C). Note that the behavioral response was measured for both groups at the same temperature and therefore at the same odorant concentration in the gas phase. Using a T-maze, we compared the response to 10-1.5 vol/vol ethanol in water (the concentration that evoked intermediate repellent responses in the control group) of flies showing reduced expression of orco (orco-Gal4/UAS-orcoRNAi heterozygotes) with the corresponding control (orco-Gal4/line 6000) (Figure 4B). The repellent response was reduced in the experimental hybrids (t = 2.527, nE = 34, nC = 39, P = 0.0137), as would be expected according to the results of the microarray analysis. This suggests that the conclusions of previous experiments showing that null orco mutants reduced very significantly the response to odorants [50] could be also applied to our experimental conditions by affecting the orco expression level. In the complete absence of the orco gene product, the Orco co-receptor, olfactory defects are observed because of the inability of the specific ORs to localize to the dendritic surface of ORNs [24,50]. It is possible that altering the orco expression level may control ORN sensitivity in a quantitative manner by affecting the number of ORs that locate in the dendritic surface. To explore the possibility that adaptation may occur in ORNs that express molecular receptors other than ORs, such as IRs, we studied the orco null mutant under normal conditions and after 24 hours of heat-shock treatment (previous experiments [6] showed that 6–48 h of heat shock have the same behavioral consequences, but we chose this treatment period here because it allows flies to retain a better condition regarding behavioral performance than under 48 h treatments). ORNs containing IRs appear to be less responsive to ethanol than those containing ORs [42]. Therefore, we had to block the responses through OR-dependent ORNs to observe IR dependent behavior.In this case, we increased the odorant concentration to 10-0.5 vol/vol ethanol in water to find the intermediate repellent response region in the control condition (with no heat-shock treatment). The repellent responses to ethanol were reduced after heat shock (Figure 4C) in the same direction as previously described for normal flies after temperature acclimation. The differences were statistically significant: t = 2.074, nE = 32, nC = 33, P = 0.0422. It therefore appears that the adaptation to temperature is not only dependent on the orco gene. The higher concentration required to achieve intermediate repellent responses and differences observed under heat shock may indicate that the orco null mutant exhibits reduced sensitivity compared to the wildtype control (as shown in Figure 4B) and that the other elements that mediate adaptation in this experiment made a relatively small quantitative contribution. However, we cannot exclude the possibility that differences in genetic background may play a role. All of these results are consistent with the current understanding of olfactory reception. Ethanol is detected by the ORNs of the basiconic [51] and coeloconic sensilla [42], but with different specificities and effects. It has been reported that the overall responses to 10-2 vol/vol ethanol in ORNs with ORs are excitatory, whereas the responses in ORNs with IRs appear to be inhibitory and less intense [42]. Thus, adaptation during the response to ethanol together with increasing temperatures could be mediated to a large extent by the basiconic sensilla, which show reduced expression of olfactory receptors, orco and particularly or genes. To a lesser extent, the coeloconic sensilla would adapt by increasing the expression of ir genes (such as ir76a, which encodes the co-receptor for all the ORNs expressing IRs) that play an inhibitory role, as was shown in the microarray analysis. The sense of smell adapts to changes in the environmental temperature via the adjustment of sensitivity in a direction that compensates for changes in the concentrations of odorous compounds in the gas phase due to their change in volatility [6]. Acclimation is initiated in the olfactory receptor organs [7]. To describe the mechanisms responsible for such adaptation, we performed a microarray analysis of the main olfactory receptor organs (the third antennal segments) of flies subjected to high temperatures compared with controls not subjected to temperature treatment. Significant changes in the expression of genes related to the responses to heat and stress, such as increases in many genes in the heat shock protein family (HSPs) and decreases of some cold shock domain proteins (CSDPs), confirmed the efficiency of the applied treatment in the antennal tissue. We also observed changes in gene expression concerning olfactory reception. The observation of genes related to perireceptor events, molecular olfactory receptors and transduction cascades before and after heat shock allowed us to glimpse certain gene expression patterns that might at least partially explain the observed functional changes. It has been proposed that in Drosophila, olfactory reception takes place through several different routes [42,52], which we will attempt to relate to our results. The basiconic, trichoid and coeloconic sensilla constitute a complex reception system, with each type of sensilla presenting its own characteristics according to its structure, the type of olfactory receptors expressed in its ORNs and the odorant type that it is able to detect. General odor reception is performed in the basiconic sensilla and is mediated by ORs, which dimerize with the co-receptor Orco. The decreased sensitivity that has been reported at the behavioral level after heat shock could be associated with a decrease in the number of molecular receptors in the membranes of ORNs. In this work, we found that among the or genes whose expression was changed significantly after temperature treatment, there was a decreased response when they correspond to the ORNs of basiconic sensilla. Decreased expression has also been found for the ubiquitous Orco co-receptor, which is necessary for the transport and insertion of odorant receptors in the chemosensory dendritic membranes of olfactory neurons [50]. Interestingly, adaptation to high levels of ethanol has also been related to acute down-regulation of orco and other olfactory genes [13-15,17]. The only OBP that has been clearly localized to the basiconic sensilla is PBPR5 [53], and it showed no significant differences in expression due to heat. In the trichoid sensilla, which mediate the response to pheromones in some cases [54], down-regulation of the expression of the specific odorant binding proteins LUSH and PBPRP3 has been found to be associated with increased temperatures or high concentrations of ethanol [13-15,17]. Therefore, in this type of sensilla, the control mechanism causing the system to become less sensitive may begin with a change in the solubility of pheromones in the lymph surrounding the ORNs. Among the ORs expressed in the ORNs of trichoid sensilla, we observed that when they showed a change in expression under heat treatment, it was in the form of an increase (with one exception being observed, for an OR of at2). This change in expression appears to occur in the opposite direction compared to the basiconic sensilla. However, these ORs preferably show inhibitory responses in empty neurons [51], indicating either that they mediate actual inhibitory responses or that they function in a different way. Thus, for the at1 sensilla, an inhibitory-excitatory relationship has been suggested between LUSH and SNMP and the Or67d/Orco elements of this system. Moreover, different responses have been recorded when Or67d has been expressed in trichoid or basiconic sensilla [52]. In the present study, neither SNMP nor or67d showed a significant change in expression, but decreases in LUSH and Orco could control the entire system. The coeloconic sensilla contain ORNs that express different types of olfactory receptors, the Irs. They play a role that is complementary to olfaction through the ORs [42]. Whether the response of the Ir system is to specific or common compounds, it preferentially displays inhibitory responses. Interestingly, microarray analysis found some differences in the gene expression response to heat, always in the direction of up-regulation. One of the genes that exhibited a change in expression has been described as the co-receptor for ORNs containing Irs. In this case, an increased number of molecular receptors inducing more inhibitory responses might confer the same result as the decrease of the excitation of basiconic sensilla. There are also a few changes related to transduction cascade genes that could be contributing to olfactory modulation in the acclimation to high temperatures. Achieving a better understanding of the basic mechanisms of olfactory reception in the future may help to explain the differences observed in other genes related to perireceptor events; in most cases, these genes failed to show a uniform pattern. For example, the genes encoding CYPs and GSTs showed both up- and down-regulation, and among the UGTs, there were only 3 genes presenting significantly decreased expression. Drosophila stocks and heat treatment The standard Canton-S line of Drosophila melanogaster, obtained from the Bloomington Stock Center (BSC, Indiana, USA), was used in the experiments. The flies were bred at 21±1°C, with light/dark cycles of 12:12 hours in 220 cc. bottles with a common yeast-sugar-agar medium. In the experimental group, 2-to-8-day-old flies were maintained for 48 h at 30°C±1°C. For the control group, the flies remained at the initial growing temperature. Before the treatment experimental and control flies were transferred to new bottles with a near-odorless medium composed of 5 g/l agarose, 50 g/l sucrose and water. This measure was adopted in an attempt to minimize the differential effects of environmental odor in the experimental group versus the control. For the behavioral validation of the effects of the or83b (orco) gene, the following stocks were used: a natural population (P2), that exhibits the same olfactory phenotype in response to heat as the standard wildtype stocks Canton-S and Lausanne-S (Riveron et al., 2009); an orco null mutant (w[]); w[+] orco[2] (BSC, donated by L. Vosshall, Rockefeller University, New York, USA); orco-Gal4 (w*; P{orco-GAL4.W}11.17; TM2/TM6B, Tb1, donated by Vosshall), modified by the substitution of the third chromosome with the wildtype chromosome of the w[1118] stock of the Exelixis collection (Harvard, USA); UAS-OrcoRNAi; and line 60000, which corresponds to the w[1118] isogenic host strain for the RNAi library, (VDRC, Vienna). RNA extraction and microarrays Four independent replicate tests were performed for each temperature regime (heat or control), and the tests were processed in different batches. In each batch, we included samples from each of the groups to randomize factors other than the applied treatment that may affect gene expression. The third antennal segments were obtained by freezing flies in liquid nitrogen, followed by fracturing and specimen collection. A large number of samples (approximately 4,000 third antennal segments for each replicate) was collected to achieve a sufficient representation of genes with low expression levels that could be missed using other protocols. Each replicate contained 2 groups of 2,000 segments collected from 11:00 to 14:00 and 16:00 to 19:00 to prevent the misassignment of gene expression due to circadian fluctuations. Total RNA was purified with the Nucleospin RNA II kit (Macherey-Nagel), following the manufacturer’s instructions. The GeneChip® Drosophila Genome 2.0 Array developed by Affymetrix (Santa Clara, CA, USA) was used in the analyses. This array contains 18,800 probe sets, corresponding to over 13500 D. melanogaster genes. RNA processing, hybridization and scanning were performed at the Laboratory of Molecular Oncology, HUCA (Asturias, Spain), according the manufacturer’s instructions, from 3 μg of total RNA for each of the 8 samples. Normalization, filtering and statistical analysis were conducted. Each Affymetrix GeneChip® probe set contains 8 to 16 paired perfect match (PM) and mismatch (MM) 25-mer probes, which are used to determine whether a given gene is expressed and to measure the expression level (signal) [55]. The Affymetrix Microarray Suite version 5 (MAS5) algorithm uses the probe-pair data to calculate the detection calls. MAS5 employs a non-parametric statistical test (Wilcoxon signed rank test) of whether significantly more perfect matches show a stronger hybridization signal than their corresponding mismatches to produce the detection call Absent (A) or Present (P) [56]. Moreover, for each probe, we set the signal intensity to reflect the relative expression of the related transcript. In this study, only probe sets with detectable expression (P) in all four replicates of the analyzed group (heat or control) were considered “Present” in that group. The complete microarrays were used to obtain general information on the gene expression levels present in the third antennal segment and for the analysis of GO groups among the 100 genes showing the most significant changes associated with heat treatment. For further analysis, 389 genes previously related to thermal changes and olfactory reception according to current functional annotations of the Drosophila gene set were selected. Only these data were analyzed in detail, as for the custom-made microarrays [12]. The data were GC-RMA normalized with Bioconductor and the R project for statistical computing [57] using the BRB-Tools program developed at the Biometric Research Branch of the Division of Cancer Treatment & Diagnosis of the National Cancer Institute (Maryland, USA). The probe sets were compared between groups of arrays using t-tests for each probe set independently, based on the normalized log-ratios for the cDNA arrays and the normalized log-intensities for the one-color oligonucleotide arrays. In the analysis, the probabilistic p-value and false discovery rate (FDR) [58] were obtained. Regarding the FDR values, an increase and/or decrease in a given gene’s expression level was considered significant if the associated value was equal to or lower than 0.1. To analyze the changes in the expression intensity of a given probe set between the control and temperature-treated groups, fold-change values were also obtained. Because the modulation due to temperature was not expected to produce extreme expression fold changes, we used the FDR 0.1 value to limit type II error (not recognizing a true effect as significant). This setting is common when microarray analysis is applied to specific tissues or cell cultures [59-61]. Total RNA from the third antennal segments of the flies in the heat-treated and control groups was isolated as described previously, and first strand cDNA was synthesized from the total amount of isolated RNA using the SuperScript first-strand synthesis system for reverse transcriptase-PCR (Invitrogen) with random primers. Real-time PCR was performed in the 7900HT Fast Real-Time PCR System (Applied Biosystems), and cycle thresholds (CTs) were determined using SDS 2.3 software (Applied Biosystems). Each reaction was carried out with 3 replicates for each pair of primers and each condition in a final volume of 15 μl using SYBR Green® Master Mix (Applied Biosystems). Primers (Table 7) were designed to join the end of one exon with the beginning of the next exon and were previously tested in silico for their ability to amplify cDNA products and not genomic DNA. Each pair of primers was tested together with the pair corresponding to βtubulin60D, which was used as a control to ensure an equal amplification efficiency by comparing the slopes of the obtained standard curves. Data analysis was carried out following the ΔΔCT method [62]. Table 7. Primer sequences for the RT-PCR validation experiment Correspondence between the microarray and the q-PCR data for the same 9 genes was analyzed by regression line and correlation value. Statistical significance was determined by comparing regression and residual variances using an ANOVA test. Olfactory behavior, T-maze A T-maze [63,64] was used to test olfactory behavior. This assay is performed in complete darkness and is a double-choice olfactory preference test. Briefly, 30 flies from the experimental or control groups were starved for 24 hours before the test. They were then introduced into a central chamber in a sliding vertical plate from the starting compartment. Once the plate was placed in the bottom position, the flies could choose between the left and right sides, containing the odorant tube and the control tube, during the 1-minute experiment. The odorant tube contained a piece of filter paper soaked with 0.5 ml of ethanol at a certain concentration, and the other side contained the solvent, water. The olfactory index (OI) was calculated as the number of flies in the stimulus tube divided by the total number of flies at either end. The OI values ranged from 0 (maximum repulsion) to 1 (maximum attraction), with the threshold of indifference being 0.5. In our experiments, the olfactory stimulus was ethanol (Merck, Darmstadt, Germany) diluted in water. The odorant concentration for each experiment was chosen based on the ability of a given concentration to evoke intermediate repellent responses. This is the region of the dose–response curve that gave us a maximal resolution in distinguishing sensitivity differences associated with heat shock in a previous study [6]. This concentration was 10-1.5 (vol/vol) in the experiment involving flies showing reduced expression of the orco gene due to the effect of RNAi in heterozygous orco-Gal4/UAS-orcoRNAi flies and 10-0.5 in the experiment with the orco null mutant. More than 30 replicate tests were performed for each line and condition; the exact number in each case is indicated in the Results section. Statistical significance was determined using Student’s t-test. CSDP: Cold shock domain protein; CYP: Cytochrome P-450 mono-oxygenase; FDR: False discovery rate; GR: Taste receptor; GST: Glutathione-S-transferase; HSP: Heat shock protein; IR: Variant ionotropic chemosensory receptor; OBP: Odorant binding protein; OR: Olfactory receptor; ORN: Olfactory receptor neuron; UGT: UDP-Glucuronosyl transferase Competing interests The authors declare that they have no competing interests. Authors’ contributions JR performed the microarray experiments and analysis and contributed to the experimental design and preparation of the manuscript. TB designed and performed the quantitative-PCR validation and contributed to the preparation of the manuscript. EA participated in the experimental design and analysis, directed the work and prepared the manuscript. All authors read and approved the final manuscript. We thank JG Sørensen for his advice regarding the data analysis. This work was supported by the Spanish Ministries of Education and Science (BFU2005-04525), Science and Innovation (BFU2008-01256) and FEDER Founds. J.R. was a predoctoral fellow of the Science, Technology and Innovation Program of the Principado de Asturias, and T.B. was a predoctoral FPU fellow of the Spanish Ministry of Education and Science. 1. Dalton P: Psychophysical and behavioral characteristics of olfactory adaptation. Chem Senses 2000, 25:487-492. PubMed Abstract \| Publisher Full Text OpenURL 2. Devaud JM, Acebes A, Ferrus A: Odor exposure causes central adaptation and morphological changes in selected olfactory glomeruli in Drosophila. J Neuroscience 2001, 21:6274-6282. OpenURL 3. Devaud JM, Acebes A, Ramaswami M, Ferrús A: Structural and functional changes in the olfactory pathway of adult Drosophila take place at a critical age. J Neurobiol 2003, 56:13-23. PubMed Abstract \| Publisher Full Text OpenURL 4. 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PubMed Abstract \| Publisher Full Text OpenURL	http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/14/259?fmt_view=mobile	<urn:uuid:6aeeb4e3-a3ba-450c-86ec-26c085a99f2c>	en	0.885853	0.124497
Search Images Maps Play YouTube News Gmail Drive More » Sign in 1. Advanced Patent Search Publication numberUS3782915 A Publication typeGrant Publication dateJan 1, 1974 Filing dateDec 27, 1971 Priority dateDec 27, 1971 Publication numberUS 3782915 A, US 3782915A, US-A-3782915, US3782915 A, US3782915A InventorsA Filbert, M Hair Original AssigneeCorning Glass Works Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet Surface-deactivated porous glass US 3782915 A Previous page Next page Description (OCR text may contain errors) Jan. 1, 1974 A. M. FILBERT ET AL 3,782,915 SURFACE-DEACTIVATED POROUS GLASS Filed Dec. 27, 1971 3 Sheets-Sheet 1 Fig. 3 7 '8 s 5 4 3 2 (x-32) (x-32) Fig. 5 Augustus M. F i/berf M/chae/ L. Hair ATTORNEY Jan. 1, 1974 A. M. FILBERT ET 3,782,915 J mm Fig. 8 Fig. 9 I U L6 4 3 2 F Fig. /0 Augustus M. F i/berf M/chae/ L- Hair ATTORNEY Jan. 1, 1974 A. M. FILBERT ET AL 3,782,915 E THYL BUTYFSATE n-HEXANOL INVE N TORS. Augustus M. F ilberf Michael L. Hair ATTORNEY weight basis, of about 96% United States Patent 3,782,915 SURFACE-DEACTIVATED POROUS GLASS Augustus M. Filbert, Coming, and Michael L. Hair, Webster, N.Y., assignors to Corning Glass Works, Cor. ning, N.Y. Filed Dec. 27, 1971, Ser. No. 212,009 Int. Cl. C03c 15/00 US. CI. 65-30 7 Claims ABSTRACT OF THE DISCLOSURE Porous glass bodies essentially free of surface Lewis acid sites are prepared by exposing the bodies to NH or steam at glass body temperatures of 800l000 C. The treated glass bodies are especially useful for applications in which the surface activity attributable to Lewis acid sites is desirably avoided (e.g., as chromatographic support or separation media). BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION Field of the invention This invention relates to porous glass bodies which are essentially free of surface Lewis acid sites and methods for preparing and using such glass bodies. More specifically, the invention relates to methods for treating porous glass to minimize or eliminate surface activity attributable to the presence of such compounds as B 0 the presence of which gives rise to acidic sites, particularly those known as Lewis acid sites. Porous glass is glass which contains an intricate network of minute interconnected voids and channels running therethrough. The manufacture of such glass is well known. See, for example, the teachings of US. Pat. Nos. 2,106,764, issued to Hood and Nordberg, 3,485,687, issued to Chapman, and 3,549,524 issued to Haller. Generally, such glass is formed by preparing a glass within a certain composition range, subjecting the glass to heat treatment to separate it into two phases, only one of which is soluble in acid medium, and subsequently dissolving out the soluble phase to produce the void space. An example of such porous glass is Corning Code 7930 porous glass commonly referred to as 96% silica glass. Such glass may contain up to 3.5% or more residual B 0 Corning Code 7930 porous glass is obtained as an inter mediate in the process used for the manufacture of 96% silica glass and that process is described in U.S. Pat. No. 2,106,764, cited above. The precise composition of Coming Code 7930 porous glass is disclosed in US. Pat. No. 3,485,687, cited above, wherein it is stated that the porous glass is composed in weight percent, on a dry silica, 3% boric oxide, 0.2% alumina, and less than about 0.05% sodium oxide. The pore size and surface area of the porous glass can be controlled by choosing appropriate heat treatment and phase dissolution techniques. Such porous glass is commonly referred to as Controlled Pore Glass or CPG. The average pore size of such glass may be 75 A.2000 A., generally expressed in angstroms (A.) because of the relatively small diameters of the pores. As a general rule, a decrease in average pore size is accompanied by an increase in surface area of the porous glass. The surface area of a given porous glass, expressed in m. /g., can be determined from the average pore size by known methods. See, for example, the above Haller patent. Because the pore size and surface area of porous glass can be controlled, it has been possible to use such glasses in numerous applications where controlled pore sizes and, or known surface areas are desirable. For example, porous glass has been used as a carrier for otherwise soluble materials such as enzymes to render them insoluble. Thus, because of the dimensional stability and large surface area of CPS, it has been found possible to chemically couple or adsorb large amounts of enzymes to the glass. See US. Pat. No. 3,556,945 (adsorption) and US. Pat. No. 3,519,538 (chemical coupling). Porous glass has also found applications as a support material in liquid-liquid and gas-liquid chromatography and as a separation medium in molecular sieve and steric chromatographic applications. In liquid-liquid or gasliquid chromatography, porous glass has been found especially useful as a support material because of its large surface area. In molecular sieve chromatography, the porous glass is especially useful as a separation medium because controlled pore sizes can be tailor-made to exclude or admit molecules of varying sizes, thus permitting separation of mixtures into their components. Despite the advantages associated with using CPG in the above and other applications, there has been one shortcoming that has limited its usefulness. This shortcoming relates to undesirable surface activity found on porous glass. Although all glasses commonly have some surface activity, which in many applications is tolerable, in the case of porous glass the surface activity is magnified for at least two reasons. Firstly, by increasing the surface area per gram of glass, there is an increased number of activity sites that become exposed or formed which can affect materials in contact with the glass. Secondly, in the manufacture of porous glass, it has been found that there commonly remains on the surface residual molecules which were not leached out of the base glass. When the base glass used to make the porous glass is a phaseseparable borosilicate glass, the residual molecules are commonly boron derivatives such as B 0 On non-porous glass, the presence'of such compounds is usually of slight consequence because the low surface area of non-porous glass. Thus, the surface of such glass has only slight activity. In the case of porous glass, however, the much greater surface area permits greater amounts of such compounds to interfere with the use of the porous glass. When compounds such as B 0 are present on the surface of glass, they give rise to active sites which have been identified by infrared and adsorption studies as Lewis acid sites. See M. L. Hair et al., Surface Composition of Porous Glass, J. Am. Ceram. Soc., 49, 651-654 (1966). Lewis acid sites are attributable to the presence of compounds which behave as Lewis acids. A Lewis acid is a substance capable of accepting from a base an unshared pair of electrons which then form a covalent bond. Lewis acids include such compounds as B 0 boron fluoride, A1 0 aluminum halides, S0 CO as well as protons and other positive ions. In contrast, a Lewis base is a term used to describe compounds or ions which are capable of giving up to a Lewis acid an unshared pair of electrons which then form a covalent chemical bond. Lewis bases include such species as NH ether, benzene, or negative ions such as OH. Because of the greater number of Lewis acid sites attributable to such compounds as B 0 which can be expected on the surface of porous glass, it can be appreciated that the utility of such glass becomes somewhat limited where an essentially activity-free surface is desired. Some of the more important applications where an activity-free surface on porous glass are desirable are in the various types of chromatographic separation techniques wherein porous glass may be used as a support material or as a separation medium. Thus, although the present invention will be found useful in many other areas, the invention finds particular utility as a chromatographic support or separation medium. Very broadly, chromatography relates to a separation process, especially useful for separating closely related substances. In one of the earlier chromatographic separation techniques various closely related compounds could be separated by allowing a solution or mixture of them to seep through an absorbent (such as clay or paper) so that each compound became absorbed in a separate, often colored layer. When paper strips are used as the absorbing material, the technique is referred to as paper chromatography, a technique still used today. Other chromatographic separation techniques include liquid-liquid chromatography, gas-liquid chromatography, molecular sieve, and steric chromatography. In liquid-liquid or gas-liquid chromatography a mixture of components to be separated is combined with another liquid or gas called a carrier and these are passed over a support medium preferably having a high surface area. As the components pass through the support medium their respective passages are delayed in such a manner that the respective components emerge at varying time intervals referred to as retention times. As the components emerge from the support medium (usually contained in a column) they can be sensed by appropriate instruments and their respective amounts can be recorded on tracing paper and represented as peaks which may be identified with a particular component. Ideally, the peaks should be symmetrical; that is, they should show little if any tailing. Unfortunately, it is often difficult to avoid asymmetrical peaks, especially in the separation of polar compounds such as alcohols, ketones, pyridines, and the like. (Cf. non-polar compounds such as the hydrocarbons.) Because of the tailings of various compounds, the accuracy and ease of such separation techniques is hampered and quantization of the method is difficult. It has been found that much of the tailing phenomena is attributable to the support material used and especially the surface activity of such materials. In molecular sieve chromatography, porous materials are used to literally sieve compounds of varying molecular weight in such a way that smaller components emerge from a column containing porous material before larger components. In adsorption chromatography, various components are passed through a support material and there is an elution delay usually based on the molecular weights and boiling points of the components. Lighter components have less tendency to be adsorbed and thus elute sooner than heavier components. In steric chromatography, a porous separation medium is used in such a way that smaller components of a mixture are eluted last because of a more tortuous path they must follow in passing through the column. Thus, in steric chromatography, the pore size and inter-connection of the pores are of critical importance. All of the above chromatographic techniques may utilize support or separating materials which are preferably porous and/or of high surface area. The use of porous support materials in gas chromatography is more fully described in US. Pat. No. 3,453,806, and US. Pat. No. 3,456,427, assigned to the assignee of the present invention. In the cases of liquid-liquid, gas-liquid, molecular sieve, and steric chromatography, it is usually desirable to have minimal surface activity. Ideally, the solid support or separation material used in those chromatographic columns should be inert. In liquid-liquid or gas-liquid chromatography the support should merely serve to provide a large surface area over which the liquid phase is spread in a thin uniform film. For molecular sieve or steric chromatography, the physical structure of the support alone (e.g., surface area, pore size, porosity) should determine the separations which are to be accomplished. In neither case should the matrix enter into the mechanism of separation. It is well recognized that diatomite (diatomaceous earth), Porous glasses, and other high surface area support materials are not inert and that they differ significantly in adsorption and catalytic activity. These materials, of course, will interact with polar molecules more readily than with less reactive compounds such as hydrocarbons. Such interactions are recognized by tailing and by the appearance of unexpected or distorted peaks. The surface activity of the support materials may be responsible for one or more of the following: (a) Peak asymmetry, caused by adsorption of polar molecules; (b) Retention time or volume changes; (c) Chemical reaction of the solute molecules themselves; and (d) Chemical reaction with the stationary liquid phase. Reactions (c) and (d) may be caused by heterogeneous catalysis. Reaction (a), the peak asymmetry (tailing), may be caused by physical or chemical adsorption on the material surface. The reaction (b), the retention volume changes, may be caused by additional contributions of adsorption to the delay caused by dissolution of a solute in the liquid substrate. Various attempts have been made to minimize or eliminate the surface activity associated with support materials, especially the widely used siliceous support materials such as diatomaceous earth and porous glasses. PRIOR ART Since siliceous materials predominantly terminate their structure in silanol (SiOH) groups, these active centers have received the most attention in deactivation studies. A general procedure which has been employed for the reduction of such adsorption activity involves the use of reagents which chemically react with the hydroxyl groups on siliceous surfaces. The hydrogen of the reactive hydroxyl groups may be replaced with silyl groups from chlorosilane-type compounds according to the following reactions: In the presence of moisture, however, it has been found that the dimethyldichlorosilane (DMCS) polymerizes over the surface of the silicas. Trimethylchlorosilane (TMCS) and hexamethyldisila- Zane (HMDS) have also been used to deactivate the silica. However, it has been reported that the effectiveness of these agents varied considerably; DMCS appeared to be the most effective for diatomite; the HMDS less so; and the TMCS even less. Further, even though diatomite offers a desirably large surface area and, even when properly silanized to reduce surface activity, it suffers from the shortcoming of being fairly friable compared to porous glass. For example, porous glass known as Corning Code 7930 glass has a substantial strength advantage over diatomaceous earth supports. Similar friability tests on the two materials indicate a 48% loss in a given mesh size for the diatomites compared with a 12% loss of the same mesh size for the porous glass. Thus, even though some silanization techniques may be more effective in reducing the surface activity of diatomites, the greater strength of porous glass, combined with the fact that it can be produced in predetermined size and shape have indicated that porous glass may 'be more desirable as chromatographic support and separation media. Although silanization treatments can substantially reduce the activity of porous glass associated surface silanol groups, they have little, if any, effect on the activity contributions of surface Lewis acid sites found especially on porous glass. The surface activity of porous glass has also been reduced with acid and alkali washings. Also, surface activity has been reduced by saturating the surface with a non-volatile compound or a polar liquid phase. Further, the surfaces have been enveloped with various metals (e.g., silver). Unfortunately, none of the above methods has been found completely acceptable for deactivating the surfaces of porous glass. For example, as noted above, the silanization treatments have little effect on Lewis acid sites. The acid and alkali washings are said to remove alumina and ferric oxide impurities but they do little to modify the surface characteristics of the silicas. Various coatings (e.g., polymers) provide inert surfaces, but they are severely temperature-limited. Also, the metal deposition procedures are expensive and there is no guarantee that the metals will not react with or serve as catalytic surfaces for reaction of solutes. Because of the above problems associated with known surface-deactivation techniques, there has been a continuing need for better, less elaborate, and more economical methods for deactivating the surface of porous glass. The present invention, quite surprisingly, serves that need. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION It has been found that the surface activity on porous glass attributable to acidic sites such as Lewis acid sites caused by such compounds as B 0 can be minimized or eliminated by two simple, economical methods. In the first method the porous glass, at a temperature between 800 C. and 1000 C., is exposed or contacted with NH; for 2 to 16 hours to form a relatively inactive surface nitride which may be optionally removed with an acid bath. In the second method the porous glass at temperatures between 8001000 C. is treated with hot water vapor for 2 to 16 hours at atmospheric pressure. When porous glass having undesirable Lewis acid sites is treated according to either of the above methods, the glass can be used as a chromatographic support or separation material of greatly improved behavior. BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS FIG. 1 illustrates the lower portions of peaks for eight compounds (1 through 8) which were separated by means of gas-liquid chromatography wherein the support medium consisted of untreated porous glass. FIGS. 2-6 and 910 illustrate the lower portions of peaks for the same compounds which were separated by means of gas-liquid chromatography wherein the support media consisted of porous glass which had been treated for various times with NH at temperatures of 800 C., 850 C., 900 C., 950 C., 1000 C., 800 C., and 950 (3., each temperature corresponding to the respective figures. FIGS. 7 and 8 illustrate the lower portions of peaks for the same compounds which were separated by means of gas-liquid chromatography wherein the support material consistedof two types of commercially available diatomite. FIGS. 11-14 illustrate the lower portions of separation peaks for mixtures of polar and nonpolar components which were separated by means of gas liquid chromatography wherein the support material consisted of porous glass exposed to water vapor at glass temperatures from 800-1000 C. for varying periods of time. SPECIFIC EMBODIMENTS In the following experiments Corning Code 7930 96% silica porous glass samples of 60 to +80 mesh having average pore diameters of about 2000 A., and 380 A., as indicated, were treated to elevated temperatures with NH vapor and water vapor to deactivate the surface sites, particularly the Lewis acid sites attributable especially to boron compounds. The treated glass was then used as support media for further experiments utilizing gas-liquid chromatographic techniques. Porous glass treated at various temperatures for time periods of 2 to 16 hours was then compared with untreated glass and two well-known support mediums consisting of diatomite. Heat treatments with NH The following experiments show that substantial amounts of boron compounds can be inactivated on or removed from porous glass by baking the glass at high temperatures in a stream of NI-I at atmospheric pressure, followed 'by extracting the resulting glasses in solution. The treated glasses exhibit gas-liquid chromatographic behavoir which is superior to that of porous glasses which have not been nitrided. Such treated glasses can also be used in other chromatographic techniques where surface activity is desirably avoided. Nitriding of the porous glasses was performed in a VYCOR brand glass tube (about 20" long) fitted with a fritted glass disk. Samples of porous glasses were heated to temperatures of from 800 C. to 1000 C. in a tube furnace. A flow of ammonia was adjusted so that the glass particles formed a fluidized bed, exposing the greatest surface contact between the NH and the glass. The samples were held at the desired temperature for 2 to 16 hours, and were then cooled to room temperature in the ammonia atmosphere. Rapid cooling was achieved by pulling the VYCOR brand glass tube from the hot furnace and allowing it to cool in room air. A control run was made at 950 C., using nitrogen instead of ammonia as the fluidizing gas. Volatile material is lost from the porous glass surface during the nitriding procedure and this is observed as a white residue on the cooler parts of the reaction vessel. Spectrographic analysis shows this to be primarily B 0 Nitriding of the porous glass samples was performed according to the following schedules: Average pore Time, Tempera- Sample No. Mesh size, A hours ture, C. 2, 000 No treatment 2,000 16 800 2, 000 1a 850 2,000 16 900 2., 000 16 950 2,000 16 1000 380 16 800 2, 00:) 2 950 Flame photometry analysis for B 0 in representative samples yielded the following results: Sample 1 (2.8% B 0 Sample 2 (2.1%); Sample 3 (2.1% and Sample 4 (1.4% It was confirmed by infrared studies that the Lewis acid sites on the porous glasses were removed by high temperature NH treatments. It was also found that by heating the porous glasses to 800 C. without the presence of NH diffusion of boron oxide from the glass bulk to the surface occurred. This additional boron would create more Lewis acid sites. However, when the heat treatment up to 800 C. is done in the presence of the NH it was found the boron oxide reacted with the NH to form a water soluble boron nitrogen compound. At 950 C. the boron oxide reacts more readily with the ammonia to form the BN compound, which may then be extracted from the surface. Thus, a temperature of 950 C. is preferred for maximum surface deactivation. The minimum temperature for nitriding should be about 800 C. Nitriding at this temperature will permit the inactivation of any boron which ditfuses to the surface from the glass bulk. The maximum preferred temperature was found to be about 1000" C. Beyond that temperature, the pores of the glass begin to close significantly, thus reducing the total area of the glass surface. The time ranges for the nitriding are preferably between 2 and 16 hours. A two-hour minimum is preferred to assure maximum nitriding while nitriding beyond 16 hours tends to become economically unfeasible. After the nitriding procedures, pore size measurements were taken for both the treated and untreated, 2000 A. 7 8 diameter porous glasses. The particle sizes for all glasses silanols, a five volume percent solution of dimethyldichlowas -60 +80 mesh. Mercury porosimeter curves for the rosilane in toluene was used. After the ammoniation (nitreated glasses (2000 A.heated 800 C. to 950 C.) do triding) and extraction, the glasses were treated with not show any significant reduction in pore size for the the above solution for three hours at 50 C. prior to the samples heated in NH to 95 C., the pore volume reducliquid coating phase. tion at this temperature being less than Above 950 A standard coating procedure was used to prepare the C., there is a substantial decrease in pore volume, the porous glasses for use as support materials in chromatopore size decreases, and the pore distribution becomes graphic columns. The glass samples were added to a coatmore broad. ing solution prepared by dissolving Dow Corning 550 The surface area values (krypton technique) for heated 10 phenylmethylsilicone oil in chloroform. The volatile soland unheated glass samples were measured as well as the vent was then evaporated from the mixture under mild surface area of the two other support materials which heating inarotary evaporator. consist of diatomite, e.g., Chromosorb P and Chromo- Columns were made from inch O.D. U-shaped glass sorb W. Within experimental error (approximately tubing, six feet in length, into which the porous glass the surface areas of the 2000 A. diameter porous 15 granules were introduced with tapping along the tube glasses do not change significantly until the glasses reach until no more material was accepted. Approximately 25 a temperature of about 950 C. in the NH The surface ml. of support material (porous glass) was used for each areas of the glasses (8.0-1.0 m. /g.) were found to be column. The columns were conditioned overnight at 200 about twice that of Chromosorb P and about 8 to 10 C. with helium flowing through the column. Flow was times that of Chromosorb W (1.0 m. /g.). measured with a soap-bubble fiowmeter placed at the Bulk chemical analysis of the nitrided controlled pore column exit orifice. glasses was somewhat inconclusive. Hydrofluoric acid All measurements were made on a Microtek MT 220 failed to completely dissolve the sample and spectro- Gas Chromatograph, equipped with a conventional congraphic analysis of the I-IF-insoluble residue revealed the ductivity detector and a 1 mv. Esterline Angus recorder. presence of major quantities of boron. In view of the high Full scale response was 0.5 second. temperature ammonia treatment, it is possible that the in- Mixtures of various classes of organic molecules were soluble material is boron nitride. used to compare the surface activity of the support mate- The nitrided glasses were prepared for use in gas-liquid rials of treated samples 26 and 9-10. These organic chromatography experiments so that the treated glasses compounds were: could be compared with untreated porous glass and two (I) acetone (B P 56 C) diatomaceous materials available under the trademark (2) methanol Chromosorb P and Chrom0sorb W. (3) ethanol (B'P: The nitrided glasses were first leached to remove addi- (4) benzene (BR C.) t1onal boron compounds. Then they were silanized and (5) cyclohexane (HR 5 C) given a standard coating prior to being placed in the (6) heptane (BR 5 C) Column- 7 pyridine (B.P. 115.3" 0.) The boron from the nitrided glasses can be leached o (extracted) by two methods. The first method involves (8)aCet1cac1d(B'P'.118'1 using an anhydrous methanol-anhydrous HCl solution. All columns evaluatlons were made at 1 Methanol in contact with glasses containing boron pro- 40 Tets w also run on columns contalnll'lg sllanized duces considerable amounts of trimethylborate. Bubbling and hqmd Z Chromosorb P, Chromosorb W, and anhydrous HCl through the methanol increases B 0 solunonammomated controlled P glasses p bility in the solution. Samples 25 and 9 were leached with this method as follows: After nitriding the porous glasses were washed with an anhydrous-MeOH-anhydrous Peak traces for compounds eluted from a column con- Chromatography experiments HCl solution and the glass was placed in an extraction taining normal (untreated) controlled pore glass vessel. The vessel was filled with anhydrous methanol and +80 mesh, 2000 A.) are shown in FIG. 1. Curves for the anhydrous HCl was allowed to flow through the vessel to same solutes on the columns containing the treated glasses put the glass particles well in motion. After washing the of Samples 26 are shown in FIGS. 26 and for columns glass particles in this manner for two hours, the solution 0 containing Chromosorb P and Chromosorb W are was drained from the reaction vessel and the glass was shown in FIGS. 7 and 8, respectively. Peaks for the same Washed in absolute MeOI-I for 15 minutes. solutes on the columns containing the treated glasses of In an alternate leaching technique, the boron is re- Samples 9-10 are shown in FIGS. 9-10. Retention times moved from the surface of the nitrlded porous glass parfor all of the samples are shown in the table below. RETENTION TIMES (MINUTES) Example- Component 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Acetone 1.04... 0.65 0.52 0.80 0.49 0.53 0.57 0.67 077 056 09 Acid 7 1 1-; 116%: 0183---: 0133 -.II 0.89 1I11 0190.1 1.15. rea ment one. 1808s.,C I 853%?)- 16g' 169262.,C I 1611:656 C Clgomosorb Cllrromosorb 2l21rgbb 0., ticles with 1.5 N nitric acid solution in two separate op- Similar results for paraffin (non-polar) molecules are erations. After additional rinses with distilled water and seen with all columns. Since there is little interaction absolute methanol, the glasses are ready for any final between the glass surface and their solutes, elution peaks steps needed prior to use in chromatographic columns. 70 are generally symmetrical. Hydrocarbons are eluted in This procedure was used to leach the glass of Sample 10 order of their boiling points for columns containing either and the two washings with the 1.5 N nitric acid were non-treated or ammoniated glasses, as well as the Chromacarried out at 95 C. sorb materials. For polar molecules, dramatic improve- All of the glasses are then silanized to inactivate the ment in peak symmetry and a sharp reduction in retention hydroxyl groups present. To substantially remove these times over untreated glasses are observed for columns containing the ammoniated, B O extracted glasses. Some peak asymmetry still remains with polar molecules, an indication that the glass surfaces may not have been completely deactivated. For a given type material, surface activity toward polar molecules is generally observed to be a function of its surface area. Since Chromosorb W had the lowest surface area of all supports tested, it was not surprising that that material was the most inert. On the other hand, the surface area of the 2000 A. diameter porous glass at 6.0 m. /g. is higher than that of Chromosorb P (S.A.:4.0 m. /g.), but its surface activity is unexpectedly less than that of the diatomite. On the basis of the ratio, surface activity/surface area, the relative inertness of the nitrides controlled pore diameter glass exceeds that of the more friable Chromosorb W. The peaks in FIG. 9 show results for a 380 A. glass that had been ammoniated at 950 C. for 16 hours and then had been extracted in a HCl/methanol solution. Peaks shown in FIG. 10 are for glass that had been heated in NH;, at 950 C. for a shorter period of time (2 hours) and extracted two times in 1.5 N HNO If good exposure to the glass surface is maintained during ammoniation, 2-4 hours at the elevated temperatures, e.g., (900- 950 C.) would appear to be suflicient for substantial B O +NH interaction. In all cases, however, the improved chromatographic performance is generally observed only after etficient follow-up extraction of boron in solution. Since chromatographic separations (particularly liquidliquld, steric, and molecular sieve) are generally carried out isothermally, these experiments were carried out at 75 C. The results, therefore, show surface activity comparisons between different column materials and do not compare activity differences between individual compound. The conditions under which the eight organic compounds were separated in the above examples are as follows: 55 mm. at 40 p.s.i.g. Chart speed 1.0 inch/minutes. Attenuation 256. Sample size 0.5 ,ul. From the above experiments, it can be seen that boron may be removed from the surface of porous glasses by high temperature treatment in NH Substantial quantities of boron are initially removed from the glass by volatilization of B 0 from its surface. Special care must be exercised in nitriding the glasses to expose maximum glass surface to the gaseous ammonia. Additional surface boron (nitrided) is removed from the glass by extraction of its treated surface in solutions of anhydrous HCl-anhydrous methanol, or HNO It is thought that even water would be a suitable extraction medium. The leaching procedure should be carried out so that the glass is completely washed. If the washing is not efiicient, surface acidity may remain. As can be seen from the examples, the surface areas of the 2000 A. glasses are little altered by the high temperature nitriding. The pore size and porosity changes only slightly at temperatures to 950 C. Above that temperature, consolidation of pore structure begins and the pore size distribution becomes diffuse. As noted above, the chromatographic evaluations on all columns show that nonpolar molecules are substantially unaffected by surface activity. Results for aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons are similar regardless of the support material filling the column. Polar molecules show strong absorption characteristics when eluted from a glass surface that has not received a high temperature NH treatment. After nitriding, however, the porous glasses are less active than the Chromosorb P, and when the surface 10 areas of the supports are considered, are comparable to Chromosorb W. Inasmuch as the porous glass of the present invention is less friable than the above diatomite supports, it is thought that the treated glasses provide an overall better support or separation medium for chromatography applications. It is, of course, appreciated that the greater surface area of the porous glasses of this invention will expose a greater number of hydroxyl sites. Accordingly, the silanization procedure described above should be employed in those applications where OH groups are desirably avoided .(e.g., non-absorptive chromatographic techniques). However, in some cases, available OH groups are desirable (e.g., enzyme absorption). Heat treatments with water vapor Treatment of Corning Code 7930 porous glass at temperatures between 8001000 C. with hot steam at atmospheric pressure can also be used to inactivate the surface of the glass. It was found that the above treatments produced a substantial decrease in the surface area during the hot steam treatment. Surface areas which were initially 200 m. /g. decrease to values ranging from 40 to less than 0.1 m. /g. Treatment of the porous glass with hot steam at the elevated temperatures was also found to remove surface boron responsible for Lewis acid sites. This removal was indicated by the greatly improved chromatographic behavior of the material. Individual gas-liquid chromatography peaks for alcohols, aldehydes, amines, esters, ethers, hydrocarbons, and aromatic compounds were eluted with no noticeable tailing from columns packed with pretreated porous glass. The glass had been subsequently silanized and coated according to standard procedures following the nitriding method, above. A series of mixtures was formulated from polar and nonpolar compounds. These mixtures were: Mixture 1: 2 propanol cyclohexane n-butylpropionate Mixture 2: ether cyclohexane ethylbutyrate n-butylpropionate Mixture 3: acetic acid -n-hexanol benzaldehyde Mixture 4: 2-propanol n-hexanol ethylbutyrate The column used in the above separations was a Vycor brand glass tube and the separation conditions were as follows: Mixture 1 2 3 4 He pressure Obs.) 40 40 40 40 Oven temperature 0.). 75 125 125 Inlet; temperature C.) 225 225 225 225 Dectector temperature C.) 225 225 225 225 Flow rate (cm/min). 3. 7 3. 5 3. 5 3. 5 Sample volume 1.). 1 1 1 l Attenuation 10% 10% 10% 10% The general peak symmetry for the above separations is shown in FIGS. 11-14. There is no tailing of the polar molecules, this indicating the inactivation (but not necessarily the removal) of the surface Lewis acid sites attributable to the presence of such compounds or B 0 commonly found on the surfaces of porous glass. Although the above-described steam treatment has been found effective in deactivating the surface of porous glass, the nitriding procedures are a preferred deactivation method since the nitrided glasses can be easily leached to remove any inactivated surface boron. However, it can be appreciated that the steam treatment method is also capable of inactivating the surfaces that tend to adsorb polar molecules. Accordingly, the steam treated glasses can also be used in any applications where surface Lewis acid sites are desirably avoided. It has been demonstrated above that the treated porous glasses of the present invention are particularly useful as support materials in gas-liquid chromatography. However, it can be readily appreciated that the treated porous glass is equally useful as a support material in liquid-liquid chromatography and as a separation medium in molecular sieve chromatography and steric chromatography. In general, the deactivated porous glass of the claimed invention will be useful in any application in which the surface activity attributable to Lewis acid sites, especially those sites attributable to boron, is desirably avoided. Therefore, it is intended that the present invention should be limited only by the appended claims. -We claim: 1. A method for deactivating Lewis acid sites on the surface of porous glass, which sites are caused by the presence of boron derivatives on the surface of the porous glass, which comprises the steps of heating the glass to a temperature between about 800 C. to 1000 C. and exposing the heated glass to a stream of NH gas for about 2 to 16 hours. 2. The method of claim 1, which comprises, after the steps of claim 1, the additional step of contacting the glass with a solution of anhydrous methanol and anhydrous HCl. 3. The method, as claimed in claim 1, which comprises, after the steps of claim 1, the additional step of contacting the glass with a nitric acid solution. 4. The method, as claimed in claim 3, wherein the nitric acid used is about 1.5 N and maintained at a tem perature of about 95 C. 5. The method, as claimed in claim 1, wherein the glass is contacted with the NH;, at a glass temperature of about 950 C. 6. A method for deactivating Lewis acid sites on the surface of porous glass, which sites are caused by the presence of boron derivatives on the surface of the porous glass, which comprises the steps of heating the glass to a temperature between about 800 C. to 1000 C. and continuously exposing the heated glass to steam at atmospheric pressure for about 2 to 16 hours. 7. The method, as claimed in claim 6, wherein the glass is contacted with the steam at a glass temperature of 950 C. for about 6 hours. References Cited UNITED STATES PATENTS 3,498,774 3/1970 Safiadi 65-31 3,630,700 12/1971 Hammel 65-31 X 3,600,147 8/1971 McKinnis et al 65-31 3,692,186 9/1972 Marzocchi 653l X 2,215,039 9/1940 Hood et a1. 65-31 OTHER REFERENCES Electrochemical Society Review & News, vol. 118, No. 8, p. 221e, Chemical Etching of Boron Doped SiO Rankel, August 1971. Nature, vol. 199, p. 998, Dissolution of Glass at Elevated Temperatures, Butler et al., September 1963, 65- 31. S. LEON BASHORE, Primary Examiner K. M. SCHOR, Assistant Examiner US. Cl. X.R. 65-3l; 15624 UNI ED STATES PATENT OFFICE Q CERTIFICATE OF CORRECTION Patent No 3,782,915 m -l mma n Inventor(s) I 1; It is certified that error appears in the above-identified patent and that said Letters Patent are hereby corrected as shown below: 1 Column 5, line 35, after "between" insert about Column 7, line 18 "(8.0-1.0 m. /g. shonld be (8. 0-l0.0 m. /g. l Column 8, line 69, "their" should be these I Column 8 line Tl, for" shouldbe from Column 9, lin 15 F353 "componnd should he "comnounds; Signed and sealed this llpth day of May 1971+- (SEAL) At test n n EDWARD IVLFLETCHERJR. L e c. MARSHALL DANN" l Atte sting Officerl l n Commissioner, of Patents 1 FORM po-goqq (10-9591 Referenced by Citing PatentFiling datePublication dateApplicantTitle US3945816 Jun 5, 1974Mar 23, 1976Environ Control Products, Inc.Method for forming a refractory cellular product US4105427 Apr 25, 1977Aug 8, 1978Corning Glass WorksProcess for dewatering porous glass US4134746 Dec 7, 1977Jan 16, 1979Domglas Inc.Method of strengthening glass articles US4243422 Dec 14, 1977Jan 6, 1981Dynamit Nobel AktiengesellschaftGranular quartz glass product US4244721 Jan 31, 1979Jan 13, 1981Pedro Buarque De MacedoMethod of making composite borosilicate glass articles US4944986 Jan 13, 1989Jul 31, 1990Zuel CompanyAnti-reflective glass surface US5120605 Mar 27, 1990Jun 9, 1992Zuel Company, Inc.Anti-reflective glass surface US6929861Mar 5, 2002Aug 16, 2005Zuel Company, Inc.Anti-reflective glass surface with improved cleanability US8359885 Jun 3, 2009Jan 29, 2013Asahi Glass Company, LimitedSurface-treated glass and process for producing the same EP0082079A1 *Dec 13, 1982Jun 22, 1983The Dow Chemical CompanyProcess for etching and deactivating glass capillaries for chromatography U.S. Classification65/30.13, 65/31, 216/80 International ClassificationC03C15/00, C03C11/00, C03C23/00 Cooperative ClassificationB01J2220/54, G01N30/482, C03C15/00, C03C11/00, C03C23/00 European ClassificationC03C15/00, C03C23/00, C03C11/00, G01N30/48A Legal Events Nov 13, 1985ASAssignment Effective date: 19851105 Nov 12, 1985ASAssignment Effective date: 19851115	http://www.google.com/patents/US3782915?ie=ISO-8859-1&dq=6948823	<urn:uuid:de94b347-4720-4085-93c8-6f3e5679a5a2>	en	0.926128	0.023116
Shared publicly - I have just taken the decision that in the next day or so I will be unfollowing every follower I have on my @ProBlogger Twitter account and starting again with following people. I wanted to explain why I'm doing it here: Why I followed so many people I currently follow around 78,000 people. I initially followed people in such high numbers for two reasons: 1. to reciprocate - I've always felt strange about having people follow me and not following them back. Perhaps this is my 'people pleaser' trait in action on the web. 2. to open up DM conversations - I used to use Direct Messaging as much (if not more than) as 'Replies' on Twitter. Following people in large numbers opened up the opportunity for this. Why I'm unfollowing everyone and starting again In the past few months I've realised that in trying to please everyone I am ending up making Twitter less useful to anyone. While perhaps the reciprocation does please some it has made Twitter a lot more noisy for me - which means I become less and less useful to others. Ironically following so many people so that they can DM me means my Direct Message Stream has become stuffed full of DM spam and DM phishing attempts. Many of these messages come from people whose accounts have been compromised by phishers. For a while I unfollowed them all but they keep coming in waves of up to several hundred a day. As a result genuine DMs are missed. Lastly - my life has become so noisy... people around me (in real life) are telling me I'm distracted and I'm feeling it. I don't think that this will 'fix' that but I do need to simplify and reduce the stream of data that is coming IN every day somehow - this is the first of numerous things I'm hoping to do to help with this. So I'm going to do a clean out in the coming days. Everyone will be unfollowed. I'm using +Jesse Stay to help me with this. I will then begin to follow people again manually. It'll be a slow process so please hang in there with me as I do it. If you'd like to DM please let me know on Twitter. While I'm sure unfollowing people will offend some - my hope is that in doing this my own experience of Twitter will improve and as a result others who I interact with will have a more useful experience also. Robert Scoble's profile photoCarol Wiley's profile photoHarleena Singh's profile photoJohn Bergquist's profile photo I did that two years ago and it was the best thing I ever did on Twitter. I remember you doing it +Robert Scoble and thinking at the time 'I should do that one day'. I was worried what people would think. Can't believe it took me 2 years to bite the bullet. +Darren Rowse I lost about 6,000 followers but now have gained more than 100,000 since then. I now realize that the most important thing is your inbound. If you are following people just because they are following you you are opening yourself up to a poor inbound. Ive often thought of doing this as well. DM spam is ridiculous and twitter is basically only useable via 'lists' for me.... Please post how it goes and the results.. I will be interested to see. it's a similair transition to the one you made when you changed your facebook presence to a personal and a pro fanpage. Totally get why you'd do this, and I for one am not at all impressed by authority figures attempting to follow/reciprocate as it just becomes an unmanageable mess for them! ;) Do you think there is a limit to the people you will follow to keep a more concise and useful stream? What happens if you get 50K people who are in some way useful? I highly doubt it will be that high but surely a few thousand people is probably more likely. How will you stop the same Clutter from Happening again? Every few months I clean my list out of people who I no longer need to follow or have conversations with. Is this something you will have to maintain? Been thinking about doing the same thing and I only have 2100+ people... I couldn't imagine 78000! Wow, Darren! 78000 is kind of insane! No offense taken. WIll not be unfollowing you, and can't imagine many will. Good luck with the big job though! I want to do that too, but fear loosing genuine connections I made so long ago. Currently following 1400 or so. Many of my incoming @mentions are mistyped to the singer christian burns. He has a _ at the end of his handle. Kind of lame. +Adam Phillips I now am following 33,000 on Twitter: all added by hand. My inbound is unbelievably interesting now, even with a bunch of noise that people produce. I don't blame you, Darren. The spam is getting ridiculous. I've cut way back on mu usage there, as few engage like they used to. I enjoy your posts so I'll still be following you. +Robert Scoble Do you use lists? How do you keep up with that many? I have a few hundred and its quite easy and could see a few thousand being bareable but more than 10k followers and I feel like it becomes to choatic and I miss to many things. How can you seperate solid content from just normal twitter "talk" I can't imagine trying to keep up with 78k people, that's just an unbelievable amount of traffic to keep track of. I dont have anything close to what you guys have, despite the fact that I signed up in 2007. but I made a "not suck" section in Tweetdeck so I make sure I don't miss things from people I dig. The rest is cool if I catch something. Chris Brogan unfollowed everyone last week and began his slow reinclusion process as well. Good luck to you, sir. Paradox of expanding social circles: The more social one appears the less social one eventually becomes. +Jess Pearson there's a Klout game? I've not really used Klout much - are you talking about lists on Twitter or on Klout itself? +Adam Phillips Not sure how many I'll follow but suspect it'll be in the hundreds initially - in time it may expand a little though as I want to DM more and more people. I did the same thing a year ago, unfollowed everybody, watch how the robots unfollow you +Darren Rowse .... As far as Klout goes I will pay attention when they count my 10K Google social graph :] +Darren Rowse I wonder if thats what lists was made for? I think people under 10K following don't need lists that much but for the more intense users like yourself or +Robert Scoble then lists is exactly what you need to split up the chatter from the important. Keen to read a post on how it goes. I do a similiar thing every few months and clear out the clutter for clarity. Can totally understand mate. Interested to hear how it goes. :) +Adam Phillips lists rock my world - I have about 4 private ones that I follow and they've brought back some of the experience of Twitter - not all of it but certainly some. I follow about 1600 people; not all of them follow me, but they all have something to teach me, including you:-) I have been unfollowing tons of people myself. unfortunately a large portion of people out there are just spamming twitter, to the point I hardly use it anymore, especially now that most of the people I follow are here on Google Plus. I unfollowed about 350 people yesterday, through Twitter Karma, weeded out anyone who hadn't posted in at least 4 weeks. I personally wouldn't unfollow everybody in one hit, seems a bit extreme... Wow! Huge. I understand your situation. It's too bad people took really meant a lot when you followed those of us who are not movers and shakers. I cannot imagine many will stop following. Your content is great. I did the exact same thing a few months ago +Darren Rowse While my 10k+ followers/following (at that time) was nothing compared to your numbers, it was still a lot of social 'noise' and very difficult for me to truly connect with that many people. I still have some paring down to do; but it's much more manageable now. I did a similar thing with my personal FB profile - I now keep that to family, real-life friends and a very select few online friends. Everyone else - I connect via one of my pages. I never did "auto follow", and only will follow back folks that I know or at least recognize. Of course, this keeps my follower count very low (as most of these seem to have those "delete if not followed back" functions running), but I actually READ my Twitter stream and if there's no reason to pay attention to somebody, I don't need to have their stuff in my stream. This is my main gripe with G+ ... I wish there was a way to include people I don't know in my "Don't Know" circle but be able to not have their posts appear in my stream. However, the way things are currently set up are to either ignore the connections (by not putting them in a circle), or have to put up with their posts! Mate I'm just grateful for the value you continually add to the social browsing experience. The fact you began one strategy by trying to please your community, then openly discussed the new strategy in the typically honest and inclusive ProBlogger style... Well, that's just testament to why we all followed you in the first place. Good luck to you and Jesse! You could also make lists of the people you find most useful and interesting on Twitter, if you don't already. It doesn't solve the DM phishing problem but it brings up the feeds who are constantly delivering quality. Also, if you don't follow me you are crazy! Crazy I says! +Paul Foster yep - that's how I've tried to deal with it for a while now - just the DM thing that I need to fix. totally off topic, but why the heck do people +mention Darren in this thread when he started the thing? Is there a reason for it? Bugs me when people do this in convo's with me, I just don;t see the point! How many people can you unfollow at a time? When you're done, feel free to clean up my account. Is there any way to mass unfollow other than handling it manually? +Rupert Wood it's just habit, that's all. I hate going to Twitter now because I start messages with + and then I realize that won't work there. Your decision is a good one I think. I often struggle with the choice to follow back as it does seem to be the polite thing to do, however, it creates a DM and social mess in many ways. So many content free DMs creates a situation where it is hard to surface the real messages yet personal connections and conversation is the point of it all, after all! thanks for posting your rationale as it gives folks an opportunity to think through the impact and make their choices with some (dare I say) klout. I may do this myself... twitter DM spam is a bitch! +Robert Scoble Hmmm. I can see why it would be useful in a public stream like twitter, or even useful when addressing someone else in a 'private' stream like this, such as am doing now to you. But +mentioning the list creator just seems totally bonkers/pointless and maybe even 'attention seeking'. Am I right that it is totally unnecessary if responding to the stream starter? +Vanessa DiMauro I know it seems polite to follow back, but people who follow you do so for their own reasons - hopefully because they find your tweets compelling. I follow people I really want in my stream for because I'm interested in what they have to say, and not because they've followed me. I don't think you should fell an obligation. Maybe a very different 'industry' example for you 'pro' types to look at is Irish screenwiter +Graham Linehan (IT Crowd, Father Ted, Black Books) - might be better known in the blogging world for the prank he did by starting the story that the IT Crowd was being watched by Osama Bin Laden in those video clips released after he was found/killed, that was an excellent example of how sloppy journalism is and the power of social media! He does have a rather large number of people 'following him' and does regularly engage with them. He recently set up a circle of 'volunteer consultants' he could enagage with to bounce ideas and share experiences to aid his writing and inspiration. Anyway, go check him out if you haven't already ;) Sounds like you're on the way to a more authentic Twitter experience. It's always nice to get a "follow" back but I'm also all for reducing the data flow to make Twitter a bit more meaningful. It's a bit like standing in a room full of people shouting at you all at once sometimes. I am sooo glad I never auto followed back, but i have followed so many that i have a ton of DM spam and phishing URLs are at least 35% of them...augh! I did that a few months ago. Didn't unfollow everyone, but cut down to about 20% of what I had been. I like Twitter a lot more now. I've always been selective about following - I follow back maybe 20-25% of accounts that follow me. I understand. Though my numbers aren't that high, I've wrestled with similar issues, on Twitter, Facebook, etc. Is there a quick, easy way for you to unfollow everyone, or do you have to manually unfollow 78,000 people, one at a time? I don't follow nearly that many BUT my Twitter steam seems like it's filled with self promoting tweets instead of real convo. I get so lost in it all the only thing I think is sent out in my stream are my blog posts. When I try to get back into Twitter to engage, I instantly feel lost. Even though my numbers aren't the same, I'm wondering if a dramatic cut will's something worth thinking about. BTW-I totally need to do this with my Google Reader. I have THOUSANDS of blogs I'm following and it's so cluttered I can find anything! :( Go for it. Too much noise coupled with a sense of obligation to honor it is a recipe for disaster. Like Dr. Seuss said, "those who matter won't mind and those who mind won't matter." I don't follow tens of thousands of people. I'm at ~2,500 right now. When I look at my stream, sometimes I think to myself "who the h*ll is that?!" So I can only imagine what that's like for you +Darren Rowse and what it was like for +Chris Brogan. I still follow people. Every now and then I'll do a quick purge. And every time I log onto twitter, I turn to my lists first and foremost as those are the people I'm really following/conversing with. Get ready for THOUSANDS of people to prove that they don't know how to read. Planning to write on that soon, but have this goofy book deadline. Bit sad that you have to explain why you're unfollowing people. One of the great things about Twitter is the fact that you can tailor it to use it the way you want. This whole idea of supposed Twitter etiquette is overshadowing personal preference. I've unfollowed a bunch of people lately because I didn't really find much value in their tweets. I'm sure plenty of people do the same to me. I'll survive! Do whatever makes Twitter a great experience for you I don't follow thousands of people, nor do thousands of people follow me, but every time I've done what you are doing, I've lost followers. I find it refreshing, and I often find people that I follow who really contribute nothing to my TL at all. I only want to follow people who add benefit to my TL, and I don't follow everyone who follows me for this very reason. +Chris Brogan I had the same problem when I did it a couple months ago. People are happy to complain, but don't ever bother to read in the process. I think this is a great idea. I hope you accomplish what you are after. I know it does get confusing for me when I really don't know who does what and it's really just a few of the thousands that I really have all that in common with anyway. You'll have to keep us all informed how this works for you Darren I will continue to follow... Think it is a good thing that u r doing Even though I appreciate everyone that follows me, it doesn't obligate me to follow them back. I follow people because I want to hear what they have to say and I don't expect them to follow me back unless they want to hear what I have to say. I have a hard time following a couple hundred people and I can't even imagine what it would be like to follow 78000. I did this a couple of weeks ago though I was removing my "spammy" followers using Twit Cleaner instead of unfollowing everyone. More work but I guess you won't be able to do it with that many followers :P I find that I can interact more with my real followers and connect with them afterwards I don't get this "nuke your Twitter" trend. Many of us reciprocated and follow thousands. There has never been any implication- at least on my part-- that one should intimately follow 20,000 or 78,000 followers on Twitter. Of course it's impossible,. But the first thing I learned on Twitter is never to follow the main stream. Using lists (small, private ones I like best) or search terms, is how I control the noise. Do I need to follow all the people on Twitter? No. Is it worth the time to blow it up and start over? Not to me. I can just refine the few lists I follow. And fwiw, I get that people who are offended by unfollows can go get bent. But I still think it's neither worth it nor solves the noise problem, ultimately. By the way, as +Chris Brogan says, many people will complain who don’t bother to read your post. But it will be a small, small minority. I totally get and support your decision +Darren Rowse! I have no where close to the following you do, but I've noticed my Home Feed filled with numerous tweets by the same person and more spam than I care to deal with or know how to deal with - ugh! Good luck to you in the removal process! :) It would be the best decision you would be making +Darren Rowse ! I guess anything that eases out your life and brings comfort to you at the end of the day, is something you we all need to work on. +Chris Brogan did the same, and I think he is much better off now. Thereafter choosing whom to follow would be easier, as you could choose a few selected people whom you really want to remain connected with! Chan Li haha, now you know what circles can do now ,dont you ? I've had people ask why I don't follow more people (mine is a tiny account). I follow people who tweet things I want to read. I'll give people a chance when they follow me, but if they don't post, or don't post anything I want to read, I unfollow. All that's to say -- good for you. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. I've got a similar process to +tam frager. I add new followers to a list, and evaluate their tweets for about a week, and then either follow them, or remove them from the list. Definitely a good idea ... what did your stream look like following 78k??? Talk about information overload. 78k is just astronomical. unfollowing 78k, how long will that take!!!?? do you have some kind of automation? @peekyou can analyze your Twitter followers and tell you how many are bots. I predict 62 hours. The Twitter API limites unfollows to about 1,250 per hour. It took me 75 hours to unfollow 108K. Really great idea Darren. I think Twitter etiquette has changed since the early days and it's not necessary to follow people back. I honestly don't think that many people who follow me are even watching to see if I follow them back. I know for sure that I (a) don't care and (b) don't check my inbox to see if people follow me back. I follow people because I'm interested in what they have to say and if we can strike up a meaningful conversation and I 'earn' the right to be followed, then that makes me happy. So I think you're on the right track and yes, that means that your inflow will be so much more useful for you (and even more useful with private lists which I'm sure you are using). Good luck! I get it. Though I don't have anything near the following you do and with my new Twitter account not that many at all, I've decided to do my business the way I have my life. With simplicity. I will follow those who speak to me in a way that is inspirational or teaches me something, something that I am passionate about or just really like, and in turn I will end up having those that want the same for themselves follow me! You are indeed a great teacher in the blog world and I find it cool that you tell it like it is these days. Any time "what will people think" is louder than "am I able to THINK for myself" then it's time to pause and listen - exactly what you're doing and you're doing it with grace. No worries about what I think - if you're doing right by yourself you're doing right by the rest of us. Anyone who isn't on board with that is limiting their own value by trying to limit yours. I don't care if you unfollow, you don't even have to reciprocate following me Darren. Receiving valuable information from you is more than enough for me. Thanks for the update! I think it would be a nice cleansing and get rid of alot of noise. I was never a fan of reciprocal follows- not that i have a big following in the first place. I will still be following your tweets myself. Unless the blue baggers win the flag,,,... Then i think will impose a self induced exile from society..Go Pies! First Chris Brogan, then Hyatt and Jon Dale. It seems my friends are all doing this. I am still not convinced of the need. I don't get that many DMs and my followers are very valuable to me. Good move Darren. I think action like this is a sign that Twitter and social media in general is maturing. Early this year I deactivated my (professional) Facebook account. I had for the last two years friended anyone who looked half relevant to the the effect I had ended up with hundreds of 'friends' who were cluttering up my inbox with stuff that meant nothing to me. I am now more careful on Twitter who I follow but I think I could do better. I think lists are the way to go. Thanks for making me think about this again. Ann (@annnolan) I have been considering doing this quite awhile, simply because I am losing personal connections. I do not have huge name recognition so many of my RT's and mentions come from my personal relationship with people. With the sheer number of people I am following along with an uptick in business I have found that I am putting out information, but consuming very little and my engagement has stagnated. But, I have never subscribed to the follow me, follow you or #TeamFollowback school of thought. NOT, what I want to have happen! Nicole (@nickelnm) I opened twitter for the first time in weeks last night and followed #911 for a couple of hours. Other than that, I rarely go there any more. Good thinking. I remember posting this tweet: "You've read too much of @problogger when: You read the posts out loud in an Australian accent..." and then I was followed by you afterwards, much to my excitement(my girlfriend didn't get it...) But I never really use my @bjorgvinben account anymore, preferring to consolidate everything into my @audioissues account for my blog, and now I'm wondering if I should rename it in my name but keep the same handle, much like you do with @problogger(Darren Rowse). True story, +Ryan Biddulph. Am I one of the only ones who didn't do the whole auto-follow or follow everyone back thing? I follow about 800 people and have less than 7000 people following me and that's just fine, really don't give a hoot about big #'s. I reply to everyone who talks to me and always check out new followers. Getting really clear with your intention for twitter helps in deciding who to follow and how to use it. About time people learned that, too bad it has to be the hard way ay. Interesting approach. I refollow (after having a quick look at the follower) manually by 90%. I do not have really spam DM problems on that, but if so, I unfollow directly im happy enough with close to 500 i follow, but would sometimes like to reduce that down a little bit more but didn't follow back automatically as i did when i first started I'm still in the reciprocation camp - I know what u mean about the DMs but in my time trade-off just ignoring them or deleting all wins out over unfollowing right now. Not trying to say you are right or wrong to do this but I'm not ready for it (yet?) - especially since so many of those spam DMs come from 'real' people who's accounts have been compromised - so what then - follow no-one?? However I do totally empathise about the noise. Maybe to reciprocate, add them to a list called 'One way', although they won't know you've added them... Totally understand!! I've been feeling a bit "over socialized" on the internet. LOL +Darren Rowse If it makes any difference - I didn't even know you were following me. I have you on a list and would share your great content whether or not you were following me :-) The funny thing is, I probably would have missed this post on Twitter because my stream is also so cluttered, and I only follow under 800 folks. Whether it is twitter or anywhere else, if you find you need to make changes to make your life better then do so. Those true and good people will still be around and will support your deicision. Ah, such a nice example for Mr. Leo Babauta about the joy of simplification :-) Hmm, I bet your life is noisy. There's already 120 comments on this post alone. Well, good luck then :-) That is an excellent decision. I hate when people follow 50,000 people just to increase their own follower count. It defeats the purpose of twitter. nice decision,for ppl like you..its a mst one not to caught on spammers net.. That's a tremendous decision! Good luck with it, I'd be interested in hearing how that turns out. I've enjoyed your posts and will look forward to them still! Well done mate. I think more and more people are starting to realise that sheer numbers actually reduces engagement. It's not just about quality over quantity - it's about substance over noise. You articulate this really well. It's a calculated risk but one that will hopefully bring you a lot more engagement, purpose and twappiness! I remember thinking it was a good idea when +Robert Scoble did it. But I thought "I'm only following 10k - it's still manageable." Then I thought about it when +Chris Brogan did it - but same reaction plus I didn't want someone to say "oh you're only doing it to try and be like the cool kids." But you know, watching you make that call +Darren Rowse? Is making me rethink it. Because I'm not some "super-popular user" - but I would like to get back to interacting with people. I think I'm going to make a list though of people I'm afraid I wouldn't remember but would really miss first. Besides, +Jesse Stay is probably slammed. ;) I did that recently, though i was only following 4,000 people, have to say it felt good... really enjoy twitter now. And yes, I'm building up who I want to follow but also being much more selective about it (like I read their blog, or know them personally etc...) That is a big decision. Good luck to you as you begin the process. ~Kelly (Naked Girl in a Dress) I'm no where near the numbers you guys are talking about, but I am already finding at 400 follows it's messy. How do you even keep up with such volume? I check out every single person that follows me so see if they are someone that I want to follow. Most I do, quite a few, I don't. At your level, I am sure it would be more difficult. Good for you. I'm interested in seeing who you do keep. +Darren Rowse +Robert Scoble +Chris Brogan interesting move, I can appreciate the economy and time factor involved in getting rid of the spam. But doesn't it reduce your streams to just another traditional broadcast communication channel? Or should we all agree to drop the word social and call it for what it really is as a communication & human resource channel for our blogs? I know it's impossible to be engaged with everyone, even at only 1,180 followers I only follow back those I think I can learn from myself. I know because I go through every persons bio who follows me and make the call on following back on that basis that I get a different result in my DM's and streams. No spam, no stupid DM's. Are you three really at the growth phase where you really need 'community managers' to manage your social networks like the larger corporates do to manage the channel? I have often thought that "popularity" has a serious impact upon your ability to engage with others. At some point there simply isn't enough time in the day to do it. I am also going to start a huge clean out this weekend! I should have done this ages ago but now it so needs to be done . I know some people will be rather cut and i hope they will understand. I remember questioning +Robert Scoble when he decided to go on his "follow everyone" spree years ago. Unfortunately, people with a lot of influence sometimes influence people to do dumb things. You were one of the first people I followed when I first got started on Twitter a little more than three years ago, and your mini-treatise on 'The (x number) people you MUST follow on Twitter' was and still is to this day the single most useful post I've ever read regarding this medium. So thanks, Darren, I hope I'm able to return a fraction of that usefulness back to you, but that's not likely. And while I am a little bummed to no longer have DM access to you, I mostly listened anyway; nonetheless, you're one person I'll always follow. So go reclaim your life and your family, brother. You deserve it! :) Ultimately the correct way to use Twitter is the one that works for you. I find this "trend" / "experiment" in unfollowing an interesting topic for conversation, and boy has i ever made for a lot of conversation. I get it, once you get to an amount of followers that is out of control... or if you get so much DM Spam you want to throw your laptop out a window. This works for celebrities, online celebrities, and for brands etc... but what if everyone played the unfollow game? Would anyone pay attention to anyone? I get why +Chris Brogan +Darren Rowse +Robert Scoble and the like do this, it makes sense to a degree. Anyway, I am a bit undecided on how I'd go about it. I use a program called SocialBro... so far still Free in Beta, and I use this to clean spammy accounts, old accounts that have no activity, and pay attention to those who unfollow me. (that is how I saw +Chris Brogan and +Darren Rowse did the unfollow in the first place). Anyway, on the flip side, I am no unfollowing either one of these guys as I value the information I get. So there ya go... clear as mud. (and to each their own). +Stephen Grant-Jones I agree it is extreme, but if you are going to do it, in cases such as these, I think "all at once" makes sense if you put yourself in the position of a follower that is being unfollowed. When the follower realizes that the person they follow is unfollowing everyone at once, they won't feel that they have been selectively unfollowed. In other words, they may not take it as a personal dismissal. I have been thinking of pruning those I'm following on Twitter too. I would love a way to get a spreadsheet of everyone I'm following so that I can review it as I manually re-add people. I think I might have to do this with my 300 RSS feeds too. There's just no way to keep up. I wonder if anyone has any advice or experience with that. Bet it felt good. Scoble, Brogan, Rowse ... who's next? ;-) +Stephen Grant-Jones - because it's far easier to unfollow everyone. You're thinking that it was done manually, but it's a script that wipes the database clear. You can't sit around and unclick 200K people. On the other side, Darren's #1 was my #1. I reciprocated follows, because otherwise, I felt like a jerk, but because we get over 600 new follows a day, we can't manually add people, so that's where the mess came. But the big point of doing it all was to reclaim Twitter so that we could actually see interesting posts instead of just junk and spam. +Chris Brogan you're right, i did think it was being done manually (albeit by using some sort of tool) and it would be hugely time consuming if you were personally doing it. (+Darren Rowse said he was getting help). I gave up trying to reciprocate follows ages ago and that was with my 6 new follows a day as opposed to 600 ;) I now mostly follow people that I find interesting and who c o m m u n i c a t e with me as opposed to just doing the reciprocal thang... I'm all for reclaiming Twitter, I can't help but feel that the good ole days are gone though... ...and straight after posting I check Twitter and there's a semi-naked woman tweeting me to click on her link... +Stephen Grant-Jones - and that's a great way to do it. Where +Darren Rowse and I are a bit "damned if you do," is that both he and I have large audiences of people who feel like they know us well, and like we're friends (without quotes, even). So, when we don't follow back, those people feel we're jerks, that we're one-sided communicators, etc. It's a complex psychology, actually. Interesting to consider, and tricky to navigate. (Not complaining, but it's been on my mind a LOT for the last several weeks). Reminds me of when Forrest Gump stopped running and just went home. The followers were baffled. My claim to fame (@tweric): I've been unfollowed by all 3! Scoble, Brogan, Rowse, some back! Or not. ;-) +Chris Brogan The first piece of advice I give to Twitter newbies is to find interesting people to follow and join in the conversation. That's kinda hard to do with 100's of people, let alone 200K people (as you know). I do like the serendipity or synchronicity of dipping my toe in the stream to see if it's warm enough to go for a swim and sometimes it leads to deeper connections than I could have imagined. I've been routinely unfollowing people that haven't tweeted anything in more than 4 weeks but I find it hard to unfollow peeps I've made a nice connection with, so I leave them in the hope that someday they'll come back... As for those who get upset that you don't follow them back... it is they that needn't take it personally, not your good self. Keep up the good work btw :) I agree with the many of you who said you use lists. I can't believe how few people who use Twitter bother with lists, and yet I can't imagine Twitter without them. I OFTEN just add someone to a list without following them. I 'glance' at my main stream but often spend more time with four or five key lists that I've been refining over the last few months. I beg your pardon? The criteria the app uses to quantify who's relevant or not appears to be lacking imho. Someone hasn't tweeted for some time? The app says unfollow. Someone posts urls often the app says unfollow. Someone retweets often the app says unfollow? By all means please let me know if "any" of the above aforementioned criteria fits "you" or your brand? I tried it and then immediately revoked access. Would you like another dose of reality? Spend twenty minutes of your time...I dare you, to review their followers (the app) and see how many of your friends or supporters use this app and out of their entire following (which by definition is a reflection of the app and it's relevance) you would remotely consider following yourself? exactly. We now return you to your large audiences of relevant and influential friends you didn't unfollow all ready in progress. Cheers, Robert re: Twit Cleaner Add a comment...	https://plus.google.com/+DarrenRowse/posts/Ecqz85iNAyV	<urn:uuid:19001ec9-1cfb-453f-998f-c3681d7ac2af>	en	0.976783	0.037461

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