[User] And I think about it in respect with everything that I do. It literally changed my life. In the way that I stopped giving attention to things begrudgingly, because I'm like, no, I should only do things that I love. If I'm paying attention to something, even if I don't like it, that is still a form of love. If I'm spending time with friends, that is a form of love. If I'm being attentive to a person directly and being like, I want them to know that I'm focusing on them, it is a form of love. I think even just in the way that I look back at my hometown, and I just sort of go "Oh, I didn't like it. There was nothing to do. I did this. And I did this. And here are the things that I have." It's like in describing something with such passion and such fervor and like focused understanding, that is love. And there's a tweet that someone wrote ages ago—actually, no, I do remember. It's this woman named Danielle. I think her at is @petfurniture. Because again, it sticks in my head with this movie. But just the idea that the currency of love is focused attention in all forms. And I think about that so much as the thesis of this movie. And it's like, when Lady Bird's mom is going to pick her up from her friend's house, and they have a conversation where is like, "Oh, I thought my brother's gonna pick me up." It was like "I did." It's like "Why?" It's like, "Well, it was just easier." And it's like, it's not easier for her. It's easier for Lady Bird, it's easier for her brother. And and that's because her mom is just—we see these moments where she gets to be alone, and it's so blissful and peaceful. But because she loves her kids so much, she is putting in the work to be like, I'm going to be attentive and do something that for them is easier. And I'm not going to draw attention to it. Because I'd rather just spend this time getting to be with my child. And even though their relationship is so contentious, and it's so fraught, and you see them fighting all the time. And she even has that moment where it's like, "I know that you love me. But do you like me?" You see that in those little moments and the things that she does and the way that she pays attention to her daughter. And even like when she chooses to call her Lady Bird knowing that that's what she wants to be called. And when she chooses to call her Christine, there is a such a focus and strong love there. And I think that that is something that a lot of kids don't get to grow up fully understanding until you're an adult. Just like, oh, you think your parents are such assholes because of the way that they treat you. But it's like, well, what about the little things that they do that you don't recognize as love because it's not outward affection or it's not them treating you like a friend or something. And I think that that was so powerful to see in a way that is not condescending, and sort of has respect for both the mother and the daughter. And I just—I really loved it.

[Assistant] Does anybody have Greta Gerwig's phone number? (Slim laughs) So we can just play that down into her answering machine and she can listen to it every day.

[User] Greta, I love you! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Am I adding Lady Bird in my top four right now? (Gemma laughs)

[User] Yes you are! We Bird! (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I want to add to all of that in a craft sense because I can't speak more eloquently than you, Demi. And in the sense of how that film recognizes what growing up in the suburbs is like when you are a person who feels a bit weird and a bit different and you know that you're destined for other things. Definitely been there.

[User] I think that's also another connection between Hot Rod and Lady Bird and I, Tonya. The idea of like trying to grow up outside of what you've been told, this is how you—this is what you should be. And just sort of the idea of the conflict of those movies being about getting out of that space. Although again, Ocean's Eleven, complete outlier. (Gemma & slim laugh)

[Assistant] But to sort of compare the craft of Ocean's Eleven and Lady Bird for a minute. I guess, one of the things I love about Greta Gerwig's work is it's in the writing, the directing and the editing of the ins and outs of scenes. So you know, you get the knowledge that the lives of these people stretch beyond the beginnings and the endings of the scenes we're watching and that we've just dropped into this moment for a few seconds. As opposed to something like Ocean's Eleven, where every scene is very much a set piece, you know? And neither is the more correct approach. They both do something wonderfully different on screen. But I think it's there. And it's little throwaway lines, like Marion's finishing her hospital shift and says to her colleague, "Well, I guess we can't have pencils anymore." It's like, well what happened? What happened on the ward today that means you can't have pencils anymore? That's sort of stuck in your head, and then you're on to the next scene. But I love that about it. You know, like Ocean's Eleven, there's nothing that is—nothing that feels casual or misplaced. Whereas Lady Bird is full of those moments, but none of them have been put there casually, or by accident.

[User] It's a very constructed image of casual life as a way of just being like, the story that we're seeing is not her whole life. It's just—it's the slice of life that you need to see to understand their relationship. And I think it's so good. I think Greta gerwig is so good at telling stories that are about following people through their personalities and not through like, a very specific conflict or situation. Like, I think that Ocean's Eleven would be a very different movie if she directed it, because there's a running plot that they have to focus on. And it's not just like, I'm trying to tell you who these people are in relation to each other.

[Assistant] This has 17,000 fans on Letterboxd. So 17,000 people have this in their favorites as well.

[User] Wow. What's the average rating of this movie?

[Assistant] This is 3.9.

[User] Hmmm. Still could be higher. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Too low.

[User] Let's get that up to a five!

[Assistant] Why do you think it's so low? I reckon it'll be people saying Chalamet doesn't get enough screen time. And, you know, the other interesting thing I guess, culturally, sort of in the movie world about this film is that it came out in the same festival season as Call Me by Your Name. Both of those films—and both quite big Timmy moments—landed in theaters at the same time. And I remember from the Letterboxd perspective being—I saw them both at the New York Film Festival and was so pleased and relieved to have seen them A, on the biggest screens possible with the directors talking about them in that moment. But B, as early as possible in their Letterboxd lifecycle. Because those films together have, you know, grown in stature and exploded and then one of them's taken a dive because Armie Hammer—we don't talk about him. And you know, on it goes. But it's just, it's so interesting when a movie moment hits like that.

[User] Yeah. I wonder what my relationship to I, Tonya would be if I had seen it later. Because I was lucky enough to go to a WJ screening with a friend. And I remember just sitting there being like, wow, that movie was really good. And then I was like, I can't stop thinking about the movie. I want to go see it again. So I went to another WJ screening before it came out publicly. And I was like, that movie is really, really good. And then it came out and I saw it twice again in theaters. And I was just like, man, I love this movie! And it just felt like I was able to form my own feelings about it before other people could. And I think because of that—I think that's why I have this residual feeling of like, you know, I'll just wait until cultural consensus comes in and then tells me whether it's okay to like this movie when it's actually like, no, I like it. I love it! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] We looked it up. And you have seen I, Tonya—well, according to Letterboxd—you've seen it eight times. Is that an accurate number?

[User] No, I have seen it one more time than that. And that is because I watched it in pieces once with someone over the course of several days and then just didn't log it, because I was like, I don't know how to log this and also it doesn't matter. But yeah, I've seen it at least nine times. (Gemma & Slim laugh) And I was talking the other day with a friend about it. And I think we're making plans to watch it again soon. So I'm like, alright, number ten coming up!

[Assistant] The long thought processes with logging or not rating or logging—just cracks me up. We have—my circle of friends are also on Letterboxd. I'm lucky enough to have a group of friends on Letterboxd. And whenever I log a movie without a star rating, everyone's like "Ohhh. What's wrong with that movie? What happened with that viewing?" (Demi laughs) "Oh, what's going on here?" You're like, alright, I was watching during work. It's just funny the intricacies of how people use Letterboxd, it always cracks me up,

[User] I was gonna say, can we ask about your star rating system, Demi?

[Assistant] Sure!

[User] Because your histogram is curious.

[Assistant] That's right! I basically just—I was like, I think there's a lot—it's so loaded to rate a movie publicly and then have people feel like "It should be higher! It should be lower!" And then also sort of think about like if I have to meet with someone who worked on this movie or like a company that made this. And just get all in my head about it. And I was just like, I don't want to do this. And also, sometimes it's fun to just write a joke about a movie and not have it feel like "Oh, he's writing that joke, because he didn't like it. He doesn't want to say that." So I just cleared all of my star ratings aside from anything that was four and a half or higher. Which is just my way of being like, I need you guys to know that I really, really loved this movie. And everything else, I'm like, I don't care. I like it or I don't like it. It's a binary system. And even there are some movies that I don't have as likes that I still am like, it's really good. It just didn't hit me. And I just feel like it was helpful for me in making it clear that I not using Letterboxd more for the front facing rating aspect of it as much as I am as a journal for myself to just be like, here's a movie I saw. Here's kind of what I vaguely thought about it or what I care to say about it. And outside of—and it just also makes me feel a lot less pressured to say the right thing about a movie. Being like, people will interact with it no matter what. So I just don't have to worry about the hassle of people taking it too seriously, or whatever.

[User] As a writer, is writing on Letterboxd important to your writing practice?

[Assistant] I don't know if I'd say important, but it is the most freeing form of writing where I still feel like I get to put in the voice that I want to extend to my professional writing. And I think a lot of times I write a Letterboxd review, and I will just sort of be loose with it and just sort of be like, I can't figure out the words, so I'll just kind of say this. But then I'll other times just be like I want to get across an idea. And I'm sitting there after the movies done. Just being like, here are my thoughts right now. But I also feel like I want to construct this. And I don't like this sentence structure. And I said this two times in a sentence, so I gotta edit it. And it feels like my brain is in a similar mode as when I'm writing professionally when I'm just journaling something on Letterboxd. Which is very helpful to me, because a lot of times I'll watch a movie and just be thinking about how it's constructed, and then go into movie mode—or like writing mode and sort of keep that going when I'm actually writing feels like—for my brain at least—like I'm writing so much more than I am. And so it just helps it feel more natural to me getting to be like, oh, I watched this movie, I'm going to write a thing about it that feels like it's not just a joke. And then I'm like, well, I am writing. I'm convincing myself while I'm writing and it's not hard for me to write. And look at this Letterboxd review I wrote that feels like an earnest piece of, you know, writing. I can write! And then I go off and write and I'm like, yeah, I shouldn't be so nervous about doing this. I do this all the time. So it is very helpful.

[User] I'm yet to meet a writer who likes writing. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, no, it's the worst thing about it.

[User] It's the worst! Writing's the hardest, man, it is the hardest.

[Assistant] I love when I finish writing something and then I send it off and like, wow, I'm really happy with that. And someone's like, "This is great. I have a few notes." I don't respond for two weeks. Because I'm like, I don't want to. I don't want to look at it! (Gemma laughs)

[User] I like your Letterboxd reviews that are more like stories, moments that happen in your life. And I guess because Knives Out 2 is very much in the ether. Can we revisit your Knives Out review of the original, which is about the notebook?

[Assistant] Oh yeah, the one that has since been deleted, because I was embarrassed. (Gemma laughs)

[User] You deleted it? Ah!

[Assistant] I delete a lot of reviews because I start to just get anxious about the way that people interact with them. And then also just feeling like agh, am I caring too much about this thing? I'm like, I don't want people to yell at me. I don't care. Just get out of here! And it's like helpful for my brain. But then I also am like, hmm, I wish that I had an archive of that. And it's whatever. I think it's—

[User] We can maybe help you with that. I'm sure that data exists somewhere. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] I downloaded my archive, and it's still in there as a deleted post. And I was like, okay, so all of these are saved. That's nice. But then I also was like, it's nice to have those and still be like no one else is seeing this and that's fine.

[User] So the point being that this review I'm talking about is no longer available. But you ran into Rian Johnson and he had a little notebook. And that notebook turned out to be maybe the beginnings of Knives Out?

[Assistant] It sure was.

[User] Oh my god! Only in LA. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Yeah, only in LA.

[User] Well, look, before we wrap up, we've got a few other tasty deep dives that we've done into your Letterboxd account.

[Assistant] Ohhh boy.

[User] Here are some movies that you have rated higher than the Letterboxd average. Peter Jackson's Tintin.

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] Did not land necessarily well at the time. But you love it and you want a sequel?

[Assistant] Oh yeah, it's the number one thing that I'm just—every time Peter Jackson's like "I'm doing this!" I'm like, don't! Do the Tintin movie!

[User] The Beatles are old.

[Assistant] The Beatles will be just as old now as they are in ten years. Do Tintin!

[User] Can you imagine like them doing a CGI Indiana Jones franchise as good as Tintin was? When I saw Tintin, I was like, this is what I need from any Indiana Jones properties feature. That's how good I thought it was.

[Assistant] It's fantastic. And it's just so artfully designed and like played out in a way, where I'm like this storytelling can only be done in animation. And I'm so glad that they nailed it. So I'm just sort of like, I guess it was probably a stressful process. And everyone's probably so busy with a million different things. Because it's like, that team is truly just like, every heavy hitter in Hollywood. And yeah, you're not gonna get them together to do another one of these. But I'm like, pass it on to someone and just have them as producers or guidance or something, because I just felt like I need so much more of that movie.

[User] I agree. And I think it must have been a box office thing, because I feel like when they first announced that they announced three. And that Jackson would do one and Spielberg will do one and then I think they'd tossed for the third. I don't know. But we only got one. I wonder though if it's Tintin in general being of, you know, Belgian or US property and not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I don't know.

[Assistant] It's just too niche.

[User] But I loved it. And then another one is—Game Night.

[Assistant] Ah!

[User] You rated that way higher than the Letterboxd average.

[Assistant] Which makes sense. But I love that movie. So I watched that again—I've watched almost all of these movies since the pandemic began. And each of them only sort of raises in esteem in my mind. Game Night is just—it's great! It's a comedy that is clearly thought out more than any of the modern studio comedies. And by that nature alone, I'd give it so many more points, but then all of the jokes hit for me. So I'm just like, that's great. What's to hate?

[User] Some things to me don't make sense. Like Grease being rated anything lower than a five, you know? (Slim laughs) It's like a 3.4 on Letterboxd. I don't understand, Grease is just—

[Assistant] Check the numbers again. Something's wrong there. (Gemma laughs)

[User] Yeah that sounds like a mistake. Grease for me is such—I could never look at it without a bias. I talked about how I didn't really watch movies as a kid. I watched Grease repeatedly. They played it so much at this daycare that I went to.

[Assistant] At a daycare? Wait. When you were like, four, three?

[User] No, I want to say from six to ten.

[Assistant] Okay. More like after school. Okay.

[User] Yes, yeah.

[Assistant] I'm like, they're playing Grease to three year olds?

[User] No, that place should be shut down if so. (Gemma & Slim laugh) But they played it so much for us. Like they put together medleys for us to perform in shows at the local mall. It just was like a thing that I knew so well. And I didn't see it for years. And then rewatching it, it just felt like oh, I remember all of this. It's so much a part of me. My love of musicals is probably entirely attributed to Grease. It's just like, I could never be—look at that objectively. I love it so much, as problematic as it objectively is.

[Assistant] And thank you for including—well, you didn't know you included it. This is just how our rated higher than average magic machine works. But I'm so glad to see another Mary Poppins Returns fan in there!

[User] Ugh! Controversial one for me.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Yeah, is it? Slim?

[Assistant] I'd say! (Slim laughs)

[User] Well anytime I'm like, that's controversial for me. I'm like, well, no, I'm me. So everything I see is like, whoa, I've seen a lot of that. It's like, yeah, well, of course you have, from your perspective. I loved Mary Poppins Returns when I saw it, I was blown away. And then I saw it in like a screening. And I just had to sit on it for a while being like, I can't talk about this movie that I saw, but I loved it so much. And people are gonna freak out when they see it and I loved it! And I remember saying something like, "I think I just saw the best movie of the year." And then being like, "It was Mary Poppins Returns!" And everyone being like, "Hmm—" and then them watching it and being like, "Oh, yeah, it was nice. I mean, I didn't like—it was nice." And then when the WGA sent out screening DVDs, I held a screening for my friends at my house. And I was just like, "I love this movie, you're gonna enjoy watching it." And they were like having fun watching it and like talking amongst themselves and making jokes. And I just got so like, like, grumpy, like they're not paying attention to the movie that I love! I was just sitting in a chair silently watching it.

[Assistant] What did they not get? And I guess part of the question is how recently had you seen the original Mary Poppins and how much do you love the original Mary Poppins? Because I think knowing that it's the children and, you know, and knowing also that the dad is played by the voice of Paddington. And I don't know, for me, there's just all these things that tie in so beautifully together. And also The Place Where the Lost Things Go is one of the best songs ever written. I'll say that till the end of time. It makes me cry every time.

[User] That whole movie worked for me. And it's just like, I look back at just being so grumpy. And it's funny to me and I make fun of myself because I was like, what a babyish way to react to someone not liking the thing that you like. (Slim & Gemma laugh) But also it was just like, having a very—it's such a strange sensation to feel so strongly about a movie that when you watch it with someone else, you sort of are like, "No, I need you to—I need you to feel the same way that I do about this thing!" And it's like why I don't—it's always so stressful to watch a movie I love with a group. Because I'm just like, one person, I can understand them, they'll like take it on, and I can take whatever reactions they have. A group, they're gonna have fun with each other. It's not about the movie anymore. You're not gonna get whatever response you want. And like that movie, I think it's another scenario where seeing it early means that I didn't take on the cultural perspective of how everyone had seen that movie. And so I went in with absolutely no expectations. And I came out just thinking it was so special, and so well crafted, and just basically not having to have any sort of preconceived notions about it. And then everyone else didn't get that chance. And so it felt like I was just constantly fighting this idea of like, oh, it's fine. It's a perfectly fine Disney movie. But just my own preconceived notion of like, no, it's actually better than all of these!

[Assistant] Watch it again.

[User] Yeah!

[Assistant] I was gonna say I had a similar feeling to a follow up movie in your higher rated than average, which is, Last Jedi is in here. So I was the first person in my group of friends to see The Rise of Skywalker.

[User] Oooh.

[Assistant] Amped. So pumped after Last Jedi. I loved Last Jedi. And I was the first person to see Rise of Skywalker, came out, wrote my Letterboxd review, shared with my friends, and I had to wait like, hours before they were able to see it. I had such a bad experience with Rise of Skywalker (Slim laughs) that everyone else—it was the opposite of yours. Every one of my group of friends, like didn't agree with me. Like, "Oh, it was fine. It was a good ending." I was like, oh my god, no! What's happening?

[User] I think sometimes, even if you're not trying to, you can set expectations for the way that people see a movie. And because of that, they will either come out liking it more or not liking it more. And it's such a tricky thing to do, especially on a website where the whole idea is you're telling people what you thought of a movie. And oftentimes, I'll just like, I'll say that I liked it or didn't like it. But I don't want to say anything too strongly. Because I do not want someone to see this and then go, "Oh, he liked it. I guess I'll go see it." Because then I'm like, I might ruin it for you in that.

[Assistant] Right, yeah.

[User] And I also love that, you know, coming full circle from the beginning. When Demi you watched F9 with real people together for the first time in—I don't know—a year and a half. And then so we're back in that world, we're moving slowly back into that world, which is great. But it also brings with it this anxiety of watching movies you love with people who maybe don't appreciate it. So it's sort like a double edged sword. Do we go back to the cinemas or better group viewings? Or do we hold these things close to us?

[Assistant] I think it's about recognizing the difference—just sort of recognizing the difference between appreciating a movie and making it something that is part—that you feel is personal to you. And is like a part of your personality. Because I think if you make a movie a part of your personality, people not appreciating it does feel like a slight against you. But if you're just like I love this movie and my relationship to it is not about how other people feel. It's such a healthier way to enjoy things. And you get a very fun sort of dynamic of getting to talk about a movie with other people and getting new perspectives on it and not feeling like you are having to challenge or correct or feel like you're coming to a conclusion about what's correct. You just sort of getting to experience the movie in a new way. And I love seeing movies with friends even if I don't love the movie—or even if I do or don't love the movie myself, because it feels like I'm getting to watch it again through fresh eyes. And that's always so exciting. And I don't know, I think I'll always enjoy watching movies with people more than I do alone.

[User] Let's go Hot Rod with Tonya Harding together.

[Assistant] If she doesn't like it, I'm gonna scream.

[User] Thank you so much for listening to The Letterboxd Show and thanks to our guest this episode, Demi Adejuyigbe, for sharing his love of his favorite movies. You can follow Gemma, Slim—that's me—and our HQ page on Letterboxd, using the links in our episode notes. Also, maybe follow 70mm pod—my other podcast—while you're there. Thanks!

[Assistant] Wait, did you write that or did I write that? (Slim laughs)

[User] You wrote that! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Ohhh, okay, fine, it can stay. Don't edit that part out. I forgot to take it out from last week.

[User] Live no editing in the outro. And thanks to composing dynamos, Moniker, for the theme music Vampiros Dancoteque

[Assistant] Hello and welcome to The Letterboxd Show, a podcast about movies from Letterboxd: the social network for film lovers. Each episode, hosts Slim—that's me—and Gemma are joined by a Letterboxd friend for a chat about their top four on Letterboxd. That is the four movies you choose as your favorite films on your Letterboxd profile. We have links in the episode notes to the movies, lists and people we talk about, so you can follow along adding those movies to your watchlists.

[User] Today we are escaping the snowy woods and going back onto the beach with filmmaker Josh Ruben. He is an actor, writer, director, College Humor legend, Kevin Bacon enthusiast annnd Letterboxd member! Josh's new film comedy horror Werewolves Within starring Sam Richardson as a park ranger with a werewolf problem is out now in US theaters and On Demand platforms. In his own five star Letterboxd review of Werewolves Within he writes, 'I'm biased, but.' (Slim laughs) So Josh is with us to talk Werewolves and scary laughs or laughy-scares. But also, and just as importantly, Josh is here to defend his four Letterboxd favorites, which are Darkman, Jaws, Little Children and Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Josh writes in his review of Darkman that it is "still imaginative and fun as hell." On with the show. On with the show. On… with the show. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I'm gonna include all three of those. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[User] My first question, Josh, is about your number one movie, which we'll get into in detail. But is Darkman the greatest comic book movie ever made that's not based on a comic book? Be honest with us.

[Assistant] Oh, I mean, yeah! You don't just come up with something like Darkman, and not be disappointed that you didn't get to make Batman, which I think is what Sam Raimi's situation was. I revisited it recently because I thought I remembered that I wore the VHS tape into the ground as a kid and forgot about it. And it's holds up so beautifully well! It's so original. I figured, you know, if we're in the world of Deadpool, like the Marvel superhero who can like you know, drop F-bombs, and we can see all that the fun violence of it all. I think it's I think it's time for like a dark horror, comedy hero, you know? Or comedic, dark horror hero. Any combination of those words, it's just it's been a while. It's such a good movie. It still holds up!

[User] I feel like it came out maybe 30 years ahead of its time.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] You know, I rewatch it this week. And it's a 3.3 average on Letterboxd. It has 24 fans, which means 24 people have it in their favorites right now.

[Assistant] Mhmm.

[User] In digging in around the movie, you had mentioned it, but what I didn't realize is that Sam Raimi—just like you said—he couldn't get the rights to Batman, or The Shadow and he's like, eff this, I'm just gonna make my own movie. And that's essentially what happened. That's bonkers.

[Assistant] Exactly. And that's what I would do. I'd come up with a brilliant idea, basically the Phantom of the Opera, but superhero. That's basically what the idea is. And I think it's pretty ripe for a remake and I'm gonna just gonna keep saying it on Twitter, and reminding people that the movie exists until someone gives me the opportunity. Like, hello Universal! You know?

[User] You could keep saying it, or you could do what Sam Raimi and Ted Raimi and Rob Tapert have done and create a universe of your own that includes Evil Dead and Xena and Hercules and the list goes on. You know?

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm gonna have to figure out my clever, like, noun. You know, like, Tubman. But make it you know, like, excuse that it's—Ghoulman! There you go. Ghoulman is probably thing. Clive Barker probably copy wrote it 25 years ago, there's probably a Ghoul Man, just like there's an Ectokid. (Slim laughs)

[User] Letterboxd officially owns the rights to that now. Sorry. We should have told you that.

[Assistant] Yeah, we could come invest. It's gonna be good. So if you were pitching people on Sam Raimi's Darkman, who are blissfully like me until a week ago, unaware of it. And you know, I just, I went in blind based on the fact that we were talking to you today. How would you pitch it? What's the pitch?

[User] I mean, Liam Neeson playing a superhero but also doing a full rage breakdown about a stuffed pink elephant. (Slim laughs) Like isn't that everything you need to know? On top of the fact that Frances McDormand is the damsel in distress, which she hated. I mean, what not to love?


[User] In watching it last week, you get that kind of like Raimi, you know, zany shock moment with that elephant scene. And they you know, when he cracks that guy's arm, and the camera just like zooms on their action. That's probably one of my favorite scenes in the entire movie. It's so good.

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, I would love to—when, I'll just say when, not if—when I do my Darkman. (Slim chuckles)

[User] Right.

[Assistant] I won't even call it a remake. Let's call it direct sequel. With no Arnold Vosloo. Sorry, Arnold.

[User] Get outta here.

[Assistant] We'll still do snap zooms. You know, we'll still have to do a few snap zooms and fast whip pans right and left to get screaming reactions. It's like, how do you top the style? That would be like, you know, how do you take it a step further without being too earnest? That'll be the real challenge.

[User] One answer would be to have not just one, not just two, but more than two exploding helicopters, I think. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] Oh yeah, exactly.

[User] The great thing about Darkman is that it makes its way onto a list that has been growing over the years, not only in a number of films on it, but a number of fans who follow it. And it's by a Letterboxd member called chopperfireball. And he's been keeping a list of, you know, a mega list of exploding helicopters. And, you know, Darkman obviously on it for not just one but two reasons. Do you watch those shots closely and go, okay, how?

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, all the time. And once I started directing, then comes the onset of anxiety, regardless of how much assistant you have in your production, how much assistance you have to blow stuff up or otherwise. It's terrifying. I mean, I get terrified thinking about how to like cover a group shot, let alone, you know, a CGI element or an exploding anything. Even though I have done it before. I've done some projects that have never seen the light of day weirdly enough that are you know, high budget. I have a good amount experience. But it's still like, you know, what a seemingly insurmountable thing. So yes, I study everything I can to try and come to the table with some kind of knowledge. But you know what's funny? No one knows anything. Like on the flip side, no one really knows anything. Like there's a lot, you know, you think you have to look to someone. I mean, yes, you need the technically proficient engineers of it all. But ultimately, like I don't know, stuff's constantly being up ended and reinvented. So that's what I like to think anyways. Somebody who got a 950 on their SATs. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[User] I have to say as, you know, sometime producer, one of my favorite things is when you're trying to put a budget together for a thing you haven't made yet right? It's all ephemeral at this point before you go and produce. And you have to call someone up like a stuntie or—sorry, in New Zealand, we shorten everything. So 'stuntman' becomes 'stuntie', 'soundman' because 'soundie'. But you know, you call a special-effects friend and goes "so how much would it cost to blow up a thing and then do this and then do that…" and they go, "huh… never done it! Excited to think about it!"

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah.

[User] And so you're asking people to imagine something that's never been done before and then put a price on it. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] It's so much fun. It's like this kind of fantasy world before you even get to make the thing.

[Assistant] It's like you got to rope in a vendor and then it's like, you know, maybe you want to do miniatures, you know, you call the miniature makers and blow that up. That's gonna be different costs than getting like the shell of some, you know, pre-built cockpit and putting it in front of a blue screen or whatever. I mean, it's a wild world, and I know nothing. (Gemma laughs( And I think that we collectively know nothing. We're all in it together.

[User] Of the things that you do know, when you rank Liam Neeson films by Letterboxd rating, you really have to scroll quite a long way before you get Darkman. Which came out three years before Schindler's List. So that's sort of just to put Neeson's career in context when Darkman came alone.

[Assistant] It goes Darkman, Rob Roy, Ice Road, Schindler's List and Taken 3. (Slim laughs) That's I think my—I haven't seen at least 90% of those, but I'm sure—and I'm sorry to cut you off, but I just had to weigh in.

[User] No, no, no. You knew where I was going with that. That's perfect. You've been thinking about it a long time. I love it. I love it.

[Assistant] All day.

[User] Speaking of explosions, you do manage to pull one off in Werewolves Within—spoilers. But kind of cleverly budget wise. I don't know. Maybe we need to cut that out. I shouldn't go there. That's right near the end.

[Assistant] No, you certainly can! And it's, I think, I can't remember if—my parents recently reminded me. You can tell I'm a Cancer. So I'm going to keep bringing up the fact that I work close to home when I can. My parents were like, you know, I remember you being upset that you couldn't do your big explosion because there was supposed to be this like big violent explosion, but turns out to be almost like a visual joke. And once that was kind of—once we, I guess, realized budgetarily it wouldn't make sense to blow up the town of Phoenicia safely. The alternative was what we have and that was a fun kind of—I wouldn't call it an uphill battle, but just to kind of explain, I'm telling you, for those of you don't understand, this little poof is going to work and it's going to hit really hard. And it will make sense and I think we've seen it in cartoons, I'm sure Animaniacs beat me to the punch like forever ago, you know?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Speaking of blowing things up, the next movie on your Letterboxd four favorites, is the Steven Spielberg 1970s absolute GOAT of all shark movies, Jaws. (Jaws theme song fades in)

[User] Just a little modest, independent film. A little mumblecore fish movie. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Spielberg, the king of mumblecore. (Gemma laughs)

[User] Yeah, kind of mumblecore! Mark Duplass, Steven Spielberg, Joseph Weinberg and—

[Assistant] Folk songs, folk songs on a boat. (Gemma laughs)

[User] This is I think, third highest most obsessively rewatched film on Letterboxd. It's number 23 in the official Top Horror list. And when I watched this for the first time, in a long time, I think last year, what shocked me on this watch was that it was like family adventure movie, but also horror. And somehow that genre mix worked in a really fun way. What do you feel when you first saw Jaws for the first time?

[Assistant] Well, I was probably five or six. So I was focused on like the 'ketchup', quote, unquote, as my parents called it. That's not blood, it's ketchup. I can't remember what it was about the early watches because it's been, it's like spiritually a part of me, I've watched it, I mean, since I was a child. And because, you know, when you start watching movies of that age, you actually you pick up on something new, quite literally every time you watch it every year, and it was on television every year in my house. But I don't know, I think the way I digested it was at first, aesthetically, you know, the blue colors, the sandy beaches, the little odd things that you might pick up on as a kid. You know, the bulging eyed head, you know, the severed hand. Even the video game, the arcade game at the beach, you know, with the machine gun, a shark shooting game. And then like, throughout the years just seeing like, you know, the innuendo or the, you know, the sort of misogyny and quince sort of end. And the easing, or rather effortless relationship of Lorraine Gary and Roy Scheider, that relationship, that marriage was so easy. The performances were just easy and so real. And you appreciate that as you get older. And now of course I watch it and rewatch and think, you know, there's not a lot of bells and whistles, it's performance, and pacing and character. You know, that seems to make the thing so buoyant.

[User] Buoyant! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] On top of those wonderful anamorphic—yeah, there's just something quite buoyant about it. I mean, we're hot off the heels of Fourth of July and everybody's rewatching it, you forget it's a fourth of July movie. Say what you will about the holiday. But, you know, that's where people go "Well watch it again! Holy shit, it's one hell of a masterpiece still!" for newcomers and beyond.

[User] What I have been loving on rewatches of Jaws now that I've become a total Jaws freak, is you know, not necessarily all the political details which are what stood out to me obviously this time last year. When we're seeing the mayor refuse to close the beaches as a shark slash pandemic is raging. But it's just simply—and Spielberg's a young man at this point still—just simply that the blocking and the camera moves. And there's just one scene I want to point out, which feels insignificant, you know, in the bigger movie. But when you just kind of break it down. And it's the "Summer's over. You're the Mayor of Shark city, you need to sign the order so I can bring in the contractor" scene in the hospital, right?

[Assistant] Mmmm!

[User] Which starts off with a kind of deep shot of the ward and there's all these people moving back and forth as Brody in the mirror walks forward and he pulls the curtain. And then they have the conversation quietly behind the curtain. And you're going "all those people are still behind the curtain somewhere" you know? But it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter because it's Spielberg. That entire conversation could have been set up behind a curtain without all the extras, without the tricking shot, without the camera moving. But that's not how he works. He creates full and deep worlds and in every single shot.

[Assistant] That's right. I mean, it's wild! It's a shot that could simply be someone walking into the room and relaying a piece of information turns into this deep emotional and highly, highly thought out work of art. I mean, a reflection on a clock to button some scene in otherwise innocuous scene "you can count on me". Even in Jurassic Park: The Lost World (sic), there's a wonderful, like, blocking of a three shot that rotates! I wish I could—I think it's like in the beginning when Goldblum's character is talking to some, you know, aristocratic character, a bureaucratic somebody in some hall. And the blocking is just, it's like, unfathomably good! And you watch the documentary about him. I mean obviously he's watched every single movie twice. But he's also clearly someone who plays jazz. Like walks in the room—and he can spend the time of course, when you're at that level to, you know, figure out the best way, choreograph with your DP how to tell the story. But also just to like, make it interesting. I mean, what a wonderful thing. That's also something that like we have to do, it's not just like, get the information across and make sure the performances are dece. But you also have to like, you know, make it interesting. Get a foreground element, a split diopter, and you know, the whole thing. And then that's before all the music and the you know, the pacing, editing and the like. So yeah, it's admirable, frustratingly so. And it's just like a master just constantly—you know, just a barrage of reminders that like maybe someday you'll have original ideas like this. But I also think that's probably the advantage of growing up on, you know, radio and some film and like not being on an iPod or iPad or iPhone for, you know, your entire formative experience.

[User] Why not go from one talented director to another equally talented director? You. For Werewolves Within.

[Assistant] Aww, girl! (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[User] So this is available as we said at the top of the show, you can see it in theaters, obviously go see in theaters, or video on demand in the States. But this is a follow up to your first comedy horror Scare Me. And I was listening to a podcast that you were on talking about this movie. And you called out one movie that you like kind of kept in the back of your mind while you were creating this. And Arachnophobia, you talk about a movie that scares and scars people in youth. That movie, oh my god, what a horrifying, funny movie to me as a kid.

[Assistant] Oh yeah!

[User] Related to Werewolves Within, the lead of a kind of like, comedic good person that you don't expect in, you know, this kind of like horror comedy and you get that with Sam Richardson in this movie.

[Assistant] Well, that is the touchstone horror comedy. I think that is like the prime example of a horror comedy working. I mean, you have so many examples. I even considered Ghostbusters to be one of them. Certainly Gremlins. But here's one that's even more grounded. The scene I keep bringing up, the example that I think is just the textbook example of horror comedy is Jeff Daniels not getting caught trying to be funny, playing the scene for real, in the basement, in the end arguing with himself which pinot noir to throw at a giant spider. 'And he's really doing it. And it was something that I was trying to do with Werewolves and what I want to do with all my work and what I think like the key to directing horror comedy and really like genre twisting stuff is, which is the world I want to be in. Which is like, really try not hard to get caught doing anything. Don't get caught trying to be funny, play the terror for real. And within the confines of that, you can let your actors be as big as they want. And then you kind of play second base coach, just sort of mold people to be a bit more grounded. Give me a little more, give me a little less. And Arachnophobia, you have characters as big but believable as Delbert and John Goodman's character. But you also have someone playing the terror for real. That performance, Jeff Daniels is bringing his like Mockingbird-level effortlessness talent to role of this small-town doctor, like a city-transplant doctor with the affect and his sort of ease with his kids and you know, how he moves the wine. He doesn't want his kid to touch the wine. He's bringing everything but you also have Julian Sands as an evil scientist, you know, theoretically nefarious. And you also have the great sort of, you know, animatronic effects and the like. I think it's just a prime, prime example. And so, gave it to Frank Martial probably the last minute. I'm sure there's a story, you know, handed it to Frank or Steven got sore throat or whatever it is. (Slim laughs) And Sam Richardson, if we're, you know, to wrap it up or bring it full circle to the Werewolves of it all, he has a Jeff Daniels, Tom Hanks, endearing genuine quality to him. And that's everything. And so you want him to live, you know? (John laughs) You want Jeff Daniels to live. You want Sam to live. You know these characters, they're brought so effortlessly to life. You think, please creatures don't destroy these wonderful human being.'

[User] Sam is so great as Ranger Finn. Milana Vayntrub is fantastic. Sarah Burns is fantastic. Harvey from What We Do in the Shadows. Cheyenne. They are all so cool. And I just wanted to know as a director working with your casting agents, when you are deciding who you're going to play with—which is what it is really—how do you do that? What are those conversations?

[Assistant] Well, in this case, it was you know, we knew we were going to the middle of the woods in Fleischmanns, New York. You know, not summer camp quiet, but winter camp. And my casting director was Gayle Keller. My first conversation was, you know, I don't want any assholes. I want good people. You know what I mean? And her first sort of swing was Harvey Guillen. And she said, what about Harvey for Joaquim? And I was like, well, I love his look. I haven't seen the show. I think he's great. I asked a mutual friend about him. He asked a mutual friend about me, the same mutual friend. And then two, asking actors, you know, to put skin in the game. Who would you want to play your husband, Harvey? You know, he suggested Cheyenne. It was his idea. Or asking George Basil, who do you want to play Gwen? Who do you want to play your spouse? So not only do the actors feel like they have ownership over their part and over the project, but they also have a buddy at the end of the day to go out to the middle of, you know, Fleischmanns, New York in the winter. They will have a buddy the way that I want a buddy in Milana, who have known for years, who plays Cecily, or in George Basil, who I've known for years, you know, George who plays Marcus. I thought, well, if all goes to shit, I'll at least be able to get a hug and a margarita, you know, with my buddies. (Slim & Gemma laugh) And then, you know, you're writing a list of people you want to work with. Michael Chernus and Glenn Fleshler, and the like.

[User] You say that, and I saw on one of the actors' Instagrams, some behind-the-scenes footage of everyone eating cake while somebody is screaming on the other side of the door. I just love that.

[Assistant] So good! I mean, that's the other wonderful thing is you want everybody—and this plays into, you know, first going with I know I want friends. I know I want people who are disarming and are good leaders, A. But B, people who have, you know, live theater experience, have good reputations who can bring it who don't have major egos. We all have egos, and it's okay to bring that to the table. It's just about being good people. The fact that they all got along the way they did, made each other laugh the way they did, wanted to read lines off camera and on camera. Upside-down camera, below camera. That was incredible. That was such a such an incredible privilege. And it shows! You watch the movie and it shows. Like okay, yeah, these people had a great time.

[User] In your promotion of your own movie. You have been saying you can rent it or you could support Trans Lifeline.

[Assistant] Yeah!

[User] I'd love to hear you talk a bit about that. I mean, that's a choice.

[Assistant] Oh, definitely! I mean, what's the most elegant way to put it? The trans community is suffering more death, harassment and beyond than certainly a 37-year-old white-privilege director could or would or has ever. Let alone the LGBTQ+ beyond community. So if I can do my best to raise voices or signal any charity, be it for the Asian community, mental health, be it for gay rights, be it for Black Lives Matter, I'm certainly going to do it. I think that that's sort of the—that has to be the trade off. You can't just be a 'me', a filmmaker, a director, you know, an actor, a public personality of any kind and make stuff and not use your platform for good. Like you can't just go off and make cameos for $50 and not support your fellow man, woman, they. Because they are supporting me. Like I'd be nowhere without the community at College Humor, which is a gigantic demographic, not just of white dudes who love boobs and beer and video games. I've got wonderful fans across, you know the entire spectrum of humanity and you have to give back. And it also is just like karma. You know what I mean? I'm from Woodstock. It's like, if you just, you know, litter and shit, something bad's gonna happen. Like, don't go in the water, you know what I mean? (Gemma laughs)

[User] Well, that is gorgeous. And speaking of using your platform for good, we noticed that on Letterboxd… When it comes to ratings… (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Oh yeah! Here we go. I like all the baddies!

[User] You like all the baddies! And it's interesting. We have a mechanism by which we can see what you have rated higher than the Letterboxd average. Let's start with Werewolves Within. Five stars from Josh Ruben! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Yeah. People are like "you rated your own film?!" and I'm like well, I did spend two years making it, so you bet your little ass! You bet your little ass I think it's good.

[User] Before we dive into your final two of your four favorites just another couple that you have rated, that you've given five stars to in fact, that sit far above the Letterboxd average… Ghost!

[Assistant] Ugh, so good! Oh, cry my eyes out. Cry my eyes out.

[User] That pottery classic!

[Assistant] Girl, girl! I mean, come now. It's heartbreaking. Demi Moore's haircut alone. Tony Goldwyn is a villain. Whoopi Goldberg's Academy Award winning performance. I mean, holy crap! That is a fucking horror-comedy-drama if I've ever seen it! That is horror and comedy and drama. I think that's actually an integral part of me, much like all the ones that everybody who's you know, gonna tout the Spielberg of it all, has deeply, deeply affected me. Because here you watch something and you cry the way the you would at the end of, you know, I don't know, Goonies when they see the ship or whatever if you're a kid. And it has the same horror as you know, Gremlins or something. With the things that come out of the ground. But it also has this incredible love story. Like I remember sobbing in my room watching Heartland Express (sic) when I was a little kid too for some reason, cuz I love these characters. I don't know if you can believe that. Talk about beautiful compositions by the way. But it literally has everything. The humor and the horror and the heart, we don't see enough of, you know, the sorts of films that can achieve all three. So I think that's five all around, like talk about genre bending!

[User] Love it.

[Assistant] There's another one on there, Labyrinth, that jumped out at me.

[User] Girl!

[Assistant] Labyrinth is one of your rated higher than average. I feel like a lot of people in, you know, that era grew up with that and that is a movie that just became a staple for decades.

[User] Yeah!

[Assistant] It's a five-star sexual awakening for me.

[User] Oh yeah, absolutely. For many of us! I mean, you know, when I didn't know which way I was gonna go, you know, as we never quite never do. Some of us could take a while.

[Assistant] I mean, I think we'd all go Bowie, though. Let's be honest.

[User] We'd all go Bowie! (Gemma & Slim laugh) I mean, even Bowie went Bowie, you know what I mean? That one's integral. And it hits all sides of the palate, right? You have the fuzzy, cuddly, you know, Henson characters, then you got terrifying Henson characters. And then you've got Bowie who's ambiguous in every sense of the word. You don't know if he's good, you don't know if he's bad. You don't know which way, you know, his heart swings, let's say. And you know, you've got a kid at the heart of it in that kind of Amblin-esque way. You've got, you know, Jennifer Connelly looking for her brother who she resents in the beginning. And there's this cosmic dread to the storm and the crying baby and the power going out. Everything that terrified me when I was a kid just about what happened and when thunderstorms were about and the like. It just, it hits all sides of the palate. And that's before the musical shit! I mean, the musical stuff! Like 'Dance, magic, dance'. I wanted to have the, you know, the the ability to sponge the lyrics, you know, and pick them up the way that my older sister did when I was a kid so badly. Much like the way that I do like Little Shop of Horrors or something. I think it's a genius. It hits all sides of the palate. (Magic Dance by David Bowie plays)

[Assistant] I mean, we haven't talked about what it's like to watch Jaws with an audience which I've never experienced, you know, or any of these films really. But I mean, let's be honest, it's always more fun with other people. And to that end, when Celebrate Brooklyn showed Labyrinth a few years ago in Prospect Park, when my now five year old was one, I went out and I found a stripy pajama set and I took that kid to Labyrinth and I sat near the front. And when it came time, I threw him up in the air, and the crowd went wild!

[User] Oh my god! That's so cool.

[Assistant] I was just so like, I'm I'm all about the performance.

[User] Best mom ever! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] We'll always have that. (Slim laughs) He won't remember it, but we'll always have it.

[User] I'm gonna dress my kid up. Yeah, like him and like the little kid from Ghostbusters II. You're gonna get kidnapped and you're gonna get kidnapped and we're gonna go to the movie screenings, you know, figuratively not literally.

[Assistant] You said it yourself. Speaking of children, the next movie on your favorites on Letterboxd is Little Children.

[User] Ahhh!

[Assistant] Currently sitting at an average of 3.6 on Letterboxd. It has 51 fans that also have it in their favorites list. And me personally, I had not actually heard of this movie before, but I love In the Bedroom from Todd Field. This is a movie that has narration. This is kind of following that similar novel ask storyline of a two people in a seemingly loveless marriage. Patrick Wilson.

[User] But it's an art film.

[Assistant] It is! Very much so. Patrick Wilson, Kate Winslet. You know, what grabs you from for this film?

[User] Ohhh, there's so much. I don't know what it is about this film that keeps me coming back to it. Because you know, on the surface, it looks like it could be a play. Not to say that a play wouldn't draw me in but there's something about the way that Todd Field lures me in as a fan with this world between the music and the you know, the comedic, bumbling brokenness of a local pederast and a local ex cop. Everyone in the movie is broken to some degree. But to add the National Geographic narrator to be the through line narrator gives it this sort of like, otherworldly—I don't know, it gives it this kind of grandiosity that's so alien and elegant and, like, weird and fun. For a movie that on the surface looks like it could be, you know, We Don't Live Here Anymore or like a small kind of John Irving piece. It's got this really nice rate of change that reminds me of like an Election or something. You know, like Alexander Payne films. You think, well who would watch a movie about people just talking in high school? But it's more than that. There's something about the vision and the world and that pacing in the music and the style that just keeps me coming back. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, you know, you don't need the crazy Edgar Wright editing. You don't need a lot of the, you know, whippans or odd sort of moves. It reminds me of like Janicza Bravo's sort of filmography. She's got a very like Mike Nichols-esque, Todd Field-esque sort of style. And that's, you know, the beauty of you know, their work is with tempered, smart compositions, you can actually imbue quite a bit of feeling. Be it terror, be it humor, anything else. You don't need tons of bells and whistles and lens flare, you know? Like, I do, you know? (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[Assistant] Yeah, tension.

[User] Tension!

[Assistant] I also saw it in theaters when it came out and did not see it again until this week. And my lasting memory of Little Children is Kate Winslet in the red swimsuit. And I think it's incredibly elegant, Josh, that you've managed to go this long without mentioning the horniness of Little Children.

[User] I mean… I'm a prude. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I mean let's talk about—(Gemma laughs) There's a couple of fantastic Letterboxd lists that this film turns up in. One is movies where the sex is necessary. And I mean, it's you know, a good list because there are so many unnecessary sex scenes and you know, the Film Twitter lights up every couple of weeks on this topic. But also my favorite list, which is help I got too horny. (Slim laughs) And yeah, in a movie that features a local pederast. It is uncomfortably horny this film. I think it's also just made another list of Slim's. Surely it's made that list, Slim.

[User] Oh it did?

[Assistant] Yeah, I have a list. I have a list called Man Ass. And, you know, an hour into this movie. I was like, well, gotta add this to my Man Ass list right now. Patrick Wilson is like a god in this movie. I couldn't get over, I need to find out whatever his regime, his diet. He looked amazing.

[User] He actually texted me this morning. I've worked with him once before.

[Assistant] Stop it.

[User] Forever ago and we keep up with each other. He texted me this morning about how much he loved Werewolves, which is very, very sweet. And his young boys did. And I've definitely interviewed him on my podcast I had forever ago asking him about—I think that was probably what we nerded out about the most before. Or maybe it was like the day he was nominated for an award, it might have been an Emmy nomination for—or a Golden Globe maybe for Fargo season two.

[Assistant] So you can now text Patrick Wilson back and tell him that he's on Slim's Man Ass list.

[User] You're on a man ass list. Yeah, I will. (Slim laughs) Absolutely.

[Assistant] You made the list.

[User] He knows it too. He probably feels like Mark Wahlberg where at some point, he's like, "Okay, I don't take my shirt off. No, don't make me take my pants off anymore. I sing too!" (Slim laughs) I don't know why I have him a Southern voice. (Slim & Gemma laugh) Like "I don't want to take my pants off! Please! I'm Patrick Wilson!"

[Assistant] Like he's always holding a guitar with that accent.

[User] Yeah. (Josh laughs) "One… Two… Three…" (Slim laughs) (Josh sings) "The grass is as high as a man ass list." You know what I mean? It's gonna be an Oklahoma song, but not… (Gemma laughs) This is how I disarm my actors by the way. I'm very funny. And I can disarm anyone.

[Assistant] I just gave Werewolves Within five stars! It's a magic trick! How'd you do that? (Slim laughs)

[User] Everyone listening just bought it on video on demand and rated five stars just from that mere moment. That's very strange.

[Assistant] Believe me, I've got the two Rotten Tomatoes accounts. I don't know what I do for Letterboxd. But what I do on Letterboxd, which you probably notice, is anyone who gives the half star or one star really scathing review of Scare Me, I'll just like it because they should know that the director appreciates that they're weighing in. (Slim laughs) But my most fascinating thing is—I really do think it's more fascinating than anything. I don't obsess, but I do have to look because Scare Me—I mean, even Knives Out has like half stars. I have to look at, like on the vertical interface of my phone, which will hold, I don't know, five or six reviews. It goes five, four, one, one, five, three and a heart. And I'm just like, this is great! This is polarized. Polarizing should be good. And we're right in that like 3.1 sweet spot. Sweet spot. So yeah, I had to get myself on and have to show people that I appreciate their thoughts.

[User] Yeah, I respect it.

[Assistant] Yeah, I respect it. It's so nice to hear that. I often say that I'm a three-star girl in a five-star world, so, you know. (Slim laughs)

[User] Give yourself more credit. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Oh no, I'm not rating myself, Josh. Oh my god! (Gemma laughs)

[User] Okay, good.

[Assistant] I'm a six! I mean, c'mon!

[User] Okay, good. You're a six in a three star world. And we should all be so lucky. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] So here's the thing. I know that you've worked with Kevin Bacon on a podcast.

[User] Oh yeah!

[Assistant] Which is so silly and fun. I love it. And I know that we often talk about, you know, Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. But one of the reasons why Kevin Bacon gets the six-degrees treatment is because Kevin Bacon is the cameo king! My favorite cameo that I always forget about is when he turns up as the stalker in Jane Campion's In the Cut.

[User] Ohhhhh!

[Assistant] But let's talk about Planes, Trains and Automobiles and Kevin Bacon. This is your fourth favorite in your Letterboxd top four. Wait, have you not seen In the Cut?

[User] So he turns out to be the villain?

[Assistant] No, no, no. He's the stalker.

[User] Separate. Okay.

[Assistant] Yeah, separate. Frannie has like all these—she's got the student, she's got the stalker, she's got the cop. And every time I watch it, I go, ah, that's right! It's Kevin Bacon!

[User] That's so cool!

[Assistant] But Planes, Trains and Automobiles.

[User] Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a Thanksgiving rewatch. So it's like the way to ease into Thanksgiving week or watch Thanksgiving Day. John Candy, if he were alive, to this day, would have at least gotten either nominated for an Academy Award for his Lost in Translation or would have won for his Lost in Translation Bill Murray moment. Him and Bill Murray would be competing. And he really—he's the heart of that movie.


[User] And that is a big part about why I rewatch it. That and the scene where Steve Martin faces off against Edie McClurg. And, you know, goes off on the fuck tirade. Four fucking wheels in the seat. I mean, and you know, Edie McClurg's "you're fucked!" (Slim & Gemma laugh) Sooo good. So good. But also the Book of Love, you know, I can't pronounce the name of the band. But they have, the music in that movie is just out of control. It's just like the beautiful synth, you know. Sam Richardson and I bonded about that soundtrack. It's just like *chef's kiss*.

[Assistant] Yeah, they're there. I've seen this when I was younger. And this is similar to Jaws where I probably had a different experience watching it as a kid. And then as an adult, it just opens your eyes to a whole new interpretation of this movie. And Steve Martin, too. I think when I was a kid, Steve Martin was like, you know, the Conan O'Brien to my parents.

[User] Mmmm.

[Assistant] You know, he could do no wrong. He was like, you know, when they always get introduced in like, interview shows funny man, Steve Martin! But, like, it's just crazy to look back on his career. He was like, untouchable for so long and just created so many hits. And this is prime example.

[User] This is a prime example. And you're reminding me of a wonderful swath when he did a few dramatic roles, like one after the other. And it was such a treat to see him pop up with like, opposite like Scott Campbell and Laurel Canyon. And then like Novocaine with Laura Dern and Shopgirl later on. Like, holy shit. Like he's actually a really proficient, effective, dramatic actor, and it's so fun to watch him. I mean, I think that's such a big piece of what I'd like to do in my career is rope in comedic actors or actors that you wouldn't see doing X genre and bring them into, you know, what, what folks might consider to be a gutter genre in horror otherwise. You know, I think one of my proudest accomplishments with Werewolves is the fact that I got to, quote unquote, like rope in like Michael Chernus. And Rebecca Henderson, and Michaela Watkins into this genre, into this world. Whereas like, you know, folks like Sam and Harvey and Glenn Fleshler had sort of, you know, played in it. I mean, even Cathy Curtin too, going back to the Jeff Daniels of it all. Here's, again, actors that emote for real that actually pour their heart into it as if it were a Chekhov play. Or if it were, you know, a Hammer vampire film, they're still going to bring the tears. And I think there's just something wonderful about, you know, given the opportunity to comedic actors to come and bring the genre. Because Guillermo Del Toro actually was quoted as saying, they're operating at the top of their game, they're operating at 100%, they're already at 100% comedic, sort of capacity. Ready to kind of play jazz comedically, but they're also doing the work to play vulnerability for real and ideally the good ones not get caught trying to emote or you know, be funny emoting. So any opportunity to cross pollinate, as I call it, you know, actors into genres you might not otherwise see them in, going to keep doing that if I can!

[Assistant] That's beautiful. So Planes, Trains and Automobiles I've understood to be, you know, a massive American Thanksgiving moment rewatch year after year. I'd never seen it until this week. I have seen—I know—I've seen many Steve Martin films. I'm a secret silent fan. I love his banjo playing. I love his novels. I love that he's an art collector. I love everything about Steve Martin on and off the screen. But I had not seen this film. And I think—this is this is a total, you know, swinging sideways—but a lot of movies don't age well because of the homophobia.

[User] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. "Those aren't pillows!"

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. "Those aren't two pillows!" But weirdly, this one while I was expecting a certain, you know, level of homophobia, it's the way that John Candy and Steve Martin play those moments gives it a kind of, you know, it's not so much homophobic. It's not so much anti-gay as, as it is "oh blah blah blah blah."

[User] Yeah, "I'm a big tough guy."

[Assistant] It's hard to explain.

[User] It's not derogatory.

[Assistant] Yeah, as opposed to Volunteers, when there's that terrible moment where I think everyone involved in Volunteers wishes, they could just erase. Which is, you know, when they say the F word after they hug. It's different. It's not that. It's more like, well, I'm not into that, but it's okay that other people are.

[User] You know, I'm sure that they had—regardless of where it netted out—but I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, folks like Candy and Martin, we're coming up with, you know, a lot of gay actors and comedians in their circle, especially in the New York City world and the SCTV world. And I'm sure they had an inherent sensitivity to it the way that, you know, Chevy Chase wouldn't necessarily because he's, you know, sociopathic. (Slim laughs) But I'm sure that's a piece of it. They're actually, you know, they have probably kept friends that are. And also, I mean, Steve Martin's the first one to be like, a comedian I remember like, let's all get away with not delivering a punch line with an F word. Yeah. And it's got this kind of respectable quality to it. So I imagine those guys, you know, kept that sensitivity to the forefront. And truly it plays like, you know, no different than kind of harmless like dad archetype.

[Assistant] I wrote in my review that at this point in the pandemic, where it's, you know, it's still sort of impossible to travel anywhere for most people. That Planes, Trains and Automobiles is almost a trip I'd be glad to take right now. (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[User] But it really is such a great like comfort blanket rewatch. When they make it home, and he, you know, he welcomes John Candy's character into his home and that warm kind of Chicago setting, you know, McMansion. It's just like ugh, god! They made it and you're so happy for it.

[Assistant] It's so beautiful to be able to see in your top for your influences as a director. Because it feels like you sit somewhere between Sam Raimi and John Hughes in the worlds that you create on screen.

[User] Yeah! Maybe we'll go more in the Hughes-like direction someday. There's a project hovering right now that would be a wonderful opportunity to keep the horror train kind of rolling, the horror comedy of it all. But also to imbue like some real emotion and romanticism. And like deep connected relationships. I'm excited to see how I can relay the spectrum without getting caught, as I say.

[Assistant] We already know it's Darkman. You already told us.

[User] Yeah, it's Darkman. It's just Darkman and his wife. That's what the title is. Darkman and his Wife. (Slim laughs) Darkman and apostrophe his wife.

[Assistant] The other piece of data that we crunched the numbers at Letterboxd, and your most popular review on Letterboxd is amazingly An American Werewolf in London. I love this review. It was cracking me up because I just watched Werewolves Within and then I saw this. And the first sentence is literally 'Criminally I've not watched this until last night.' And man, talk about your experience watching this movie. Because you mentioned the finale. But man, what a trip this movie is, huh?

[User] My jaw was on the floor. It was so ahead of its time comedically. Like the moment when Frank Oz, just his voice as the—I can't remember what he was, if he was the doctor or some specialists. But the timing of the editing and the "ah!" timbre of his like Frank Oz's voice. (Slim laughs) After the violence of it all, like after the kind of werewolf violence, it was like the most brilliant sort of trifecta that it's something that I strive for today, presently. And it has its problematic stuff. You know, Landis is definitely like, you know, a hound. The performances are great and I couldn't get over how just kind of juicy Griffin Dunn and the makeup and the framing and the mythology of the ghoul and the werewolf was—like that mythology alone is so tasty. What a wonderful example of like true sidesplitting humor and character but also great genre scare You know, still the transformation scene. You know, now having watched it in context.

[Assistant] All time.

[User] Holds up! Big time! My jaw was on the floor.

[Assistant] Speaking of finales and wrapping things up. I want to pick up on that and say, my favorite, favorite part of Werewolves Within was—no spoilers—the last ten minutes. In the last few minutes for me, like something realized on screen that I have been wanting to see for a very long time and I'm a big fan of Werewolf movies. And I can't get enough of the ones that have been coming out over the last year. Wolf of Snow Hollow, Wolfwalkers, so many great werewolf movies. Werewolves Within, yet another addition to their the canon. But it does something—no spoilers—that I've been wanting to see for a long time. And, frankly, that last ten minutes is the first ten minutes of another movie I want to watch.

[User] Oh, yeah, there's a wonderful—I mean, I say it's wonderful because I'm biased—but there is a prequel idea or concept that I'm dying to at least pour open about how they got there, you know? About how it came to be and about the storyline leading up into but who the hell knows? On the flip side, maybe they'll let us make a show, you know, not unlike Twin Peaks, but it's Beaverfield. And it's just more of the, you know—

[Assistant] Oh man.

[User] The townies.

[Assistant] Okay!

[User] Oh, that would amazing. But also, you know, What We Do In The Shadows spun out of a movie in which there are not only vampires, but also werewolves, not swearwolves. (Josh laughs) You know, those guys have been asked about doing the werewolves spin off for a long time and they're just not getting there. So the field is wide open, Josh.

[Assistant] I know! Ware Wolves. What a perfect name for a fucking movie. Ware Wolves! It's so brilliant. Like guys, come on! And they did the paranormal spin off. Anyway, I want to be a part of any of it. And please include me. Holy mackerel.

[User] Thanks so much for listening to The Letterboxd Show and thanks to our guest this episode Josh Ruben for sharing his love of his favorite movies. Werewolves Within is out now in select theaters and on video on demand in the United States via IFC. You can also donate to Trans Lifeline using the links in our episode notes.

[Assistant] You can follow Gemma, Slim—that's me—and our Letterboxd HQ page on Letterboxd using the links in our episode notes. Thanks to composing dynamos, Moniker, for the theme music Vampiros Dancoteque. And if you're enjoying the show, have guest ideas, be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. The Letterboxd Show is a TAPEDECK production.

[User] I hope you can join us for the next episode when we are going to… Cannes! (Slim laughs) Oh that's bad.

[Assistant] I almost want to use that as the outro. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[User] Welcome to The Letterboxd Show, a podcast about movies, from Letterboxd, the social network for film lovers. Each episode, host Slim—that's me—and Gemma are joined by a Letterboxd friend for a chat about their top four on Letterboxd. That's the four movies you choose as your favorite films on your Letterboxd profile. We have links in the episode notes to the movies, lists, and people we talk about so you can follow along, adding those movies to your watchlists. Today we're getting high on cactus and turning up the Yo-Yo Ma with film critic Brian Formo.

[Assistant] Brian is Letterboxd's correspondent from the 74th Festival de Cannes. We are crossing live to Brian on the Riviera where he's been attending his very first Cannes Film Festival. It was touch and go for a while there. Immense pain, abdominal surgery, a five-week recovery period, vaccinations, COVID tests, he made it to France with just a week to spare. Which brings us to Brian's four favorites. Some people never change their top four. But Brian is a movie lover who changes up his favorites every month. And for the past month, for obvious reasons, Formo's four have had a medical focus. They are: Eyes Wide Shut. Master and Commander, Darkman and The Skin I Live In. Which begs me to ask: why are you people always making me watch movies about men in masks, disfigurement, and all the rest? Brian writes in his review of Eyes Wide Shut that it is 'a glorious cinematic prank'. On with the show!

[User] Now, Brian, I love movies. I watch them all the time. But Cannes is out of my wheelhouse big time. So I'm assuming that there's probably a lot of people that love Letterboxd just like me that are still kind of unaware of what happens at Cannes, what it is, and maybe all they know about it is that there are really long, potentially awkward standing ovations. So what is Cannes to maybe people that haven't been a part of it or know about it before?

[Assistant] For people who aren't familiar, I would say it's probably the, the snootiest Film Fest to a lot of people because, you know, you might hear about like, oh, you can't—women can't wear heels—or sorry, they have to wear heels on the red carpet. Their tuxedos are required for premieres, etc, etc. And a lot of the films that play here, a lot of American films skip it pretty largely. So it's not, while there are celebrities here, it's very, very, very international. And so if you're not keyed into and love international film, which as Bong Joon-ho who, you know, people love Parasite, but it started here at Cannes and it won Palme d'Or here. And you know, if you can get over the subtitle barrier, Cannes is a launching pad for so many international films. And also a number of those films, because it is so international, like, what you see here—now something like Annette comes out a couple weeks later, but a lot of these movies that you see here, it is kind of like the launch pad and they might not come out for a year or two in other markets. So, so much of it depends on kind of how people and critics and buyers view the films here. And there's also a side component, that's actually really large, that even if you're maybe not into "film snobbery" (Slim chuckles) is that a lot of movies are packaged here. So whenever you're watching a number of indie films or international films, at the beginning of the credits for each movie, you'll see numerous production companies dropping logos and lots of countries saying like "thanks to the Belgium Film Fund" etc. at the very start of a film and a lot of those various components from, and funding from different nations come from when all the buyers get together at Cannes to put up various different types of money for the titles.

[User] 74 years of the Cannes Film Festival. I don't know how many years you've been in the film appreciation business, but this is your first one. Why is it held so much charm and mystique for you? And why did you battle surgery and a pandemic to get there?

[Assistant] Well, I think—and going back to the international focus of it all—is once you start diving into international film, whether it's through Criterion or other collections, and you like look up information afterward, you'll see oftentimes that a lot of these films premiered at Cannes. And so that is kind of like the first, maybe, seed of awareness is when you're a burgeoning cinephile, you just kind of see that over and over and over. More than any other film festivals, maybe outside of Sundance, but Sundance is largely very American. And I think that, yeah, Cannes, once you start exploring films from Italy, films from South Korea, films from Australia, films from everywhere, you oftentimes will see Cannes as premiere whether it's in competition, or just in certain regard, or they have all these different avenues of being shown.

[User] But here's the thing, like, having never been I'm so fascinated by, by the, I guess the— heh—audience interactions, the likes of which we, the rest of the world really only sees at midnight screenings of Rocky Horror or whatever. So what's, what's it actually like being in the room with one of those ridiculously long ovations or indeed watching people walk out of a screening?

[Assistant] The applause is very real and quantifiable. The boos, kind of confirmed what I thought before I came, which is that is very overblown, like you hear if one person boos you will hear like, "Oh, this movie got booed at Cannes" but it could literally just be one person. But to have like a fourteen-minute standing ovation, you know, there's got to be a lot of people willing to do that. I guess there could be one guy doing that for—or lady—doing that for fifteen minutes. But that has not been anything that I have seen. But the boo, like, yeah, it's like one or two. And it could be you know, that'll get tweets, it'll get written up, because you know, people kind of want to eat that up. Because again, a lot of these films that show here, don't actually get released for quite some time thereafter. So if you, yeah, but I do think that it is extremely over reported. Now, the amount of walkouts that I've seen in Cannes actually did surprise me because I have been at a number of film festivals. And including in Europe, I've been to Venice, and I didn't see as many walkouts at Venice, as I have in Cannes. And sometimes, I'm very—I don't know what people are thinking when they're leaving. But there's been a couple movies that are quite long and slow. And we're at the two hour point and we all know there's fifteen minutes left and people are leaving. It's like, if you put two hours in, why are you leaving right now? But as for the long, long ovations, I don't have time for that. (Slim laughs) I'll, I'll, I'll clap for a little bit, but like I'm going, I'm not staying there for the duration of the ovation.

[User] Fourteen minutes is like—I'll fall on the sword here—fourteen minutes is a long time to do anything, let alone a standing ovation. I'm not even sure if I've given a standing ovation to anything in my life! Let alone a movie for fifteen minutes.

[Assistant] Fourteen minutes as a whole other short film you could be watching! (Slim laughs)

[User] I don't love, I don't love the act of clapping either and I feel like, I don't know. Maybe, I feel like the Nicole Kidman look of like the way she's clapping—

[Assistant] Yes!

[User] At the Oscars has made me self conscious about how, what do I look like when I clap? (Slim laughs) And I am sure if I did it for ten, twelve, fourteen minutes that I would look ridiculous.

[Assistant] When you're clapping for that long your hands don't remember how to clap. Your hands just start doing strange things, your body probably starts convulsing. But we have, we'll come back to Cannes in a bit because the main topic of the show, obviously, is your four favorites on Letterboxd. Your top four, we mentioned it at the top of the show, your number one for this month anyway, since you change them every month, is—it stars two actors that are very hotly debated on this show.

[User] I can't believe we're already here again.

[Assistant] Tom Cruise. Nicole Kidman. And also Stanley Kubrick. Eyes Wide Shut. 3.9 average on Letterboxd. It has 4,000 fans! (music from Eyes Wide Shut fades in) So 4,000 other people have this in their top four are favorites on Letterboxd. And Tom, our dear sweet Tom, plays a doctor in this movie.

[User] As he tells literally everybody else in the movie, every five minutes. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Which is one of my favorite moments. (Gemma laughs)

[User] I've never heard of a doctor showing a kind of doctor badge before I saw this movie and Tom made it happen almost every other scene.

[Assistant] And like does it even work? Does it even—

[User] I don't know.

[Assistant] Does it even work to flash your doctor card? 'I'm a doctor.' (Slim laughs)

[User] So Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's last film and you know the marketing ahead of this movie was very vague, a lot of people, if you haven't seen it, you might not even know what it's about. But mainly it follows a long night in Tom Cruise's marriage as he searches for you know, love, otherwise and gets mixed up into a host of other things that maybe he really regrets.

[Assistant] Or, I would, I would simply say as he fails to just have a conversation with his wife. (Slim laughs) And does literally everything else he can to avoid just having one conversation with his wife, who is by the way a luminous, mostly naked, Nicole Kidman. Brian, have you ever rolled a blunt right when Nicole Kidman rolls her blunt at the 25-minute mark and watched the rest of the film in that state?

[User] Uh, no I have not. But the day that we are recording this, at least for Slim and I, it's different for Gemma, is actually the day that Eyes Wide Shut was released in theaters, so.

[Assistant] Holy cow!

[User] It's very appropriate that we're talking about it right now. I was there actually opening night for Eyes Wide Shut. I would, I was seventeen years old and so I had just barely become old enough to even go watch it.

[Assistant] Geeze. How did you feel experiencing it? How did you feel walking out of the theater?

[User] To be honest, that viewing was quite dramatic because I actually took a date.

[Assistant] Oh god.

[User] And it was someone that I had a huge crush on for years and that was our first date. I was like, you know, I wrote movie reviews for our high school paper. And I was like, you know, it's the last Stanley Kubrick movie, I really want to see this. She was very, very, very uncomfortable and I was having to check in on her on her all the time and I was like nervous the basically the entire screening. I was A, nervous just like going out but like B, that I was nervous, you know when you're sitting next to someone you can tell they despise it? (Slim laughs) It's one of my most hated feelings in the world. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Wow!

[User] Which is why I like watching movies alone and a lot of the time and then when I love it I never want to go watch it with someone else. And maybe that's why, maybe Eyes Wide Shut was the movie that implanted that in my brain of like, I should test things out before inviting another individual to go with me. (Brian laughs)

[Assistant] Just had an idea for a whole new podcast series which is like "bad movie dates". Because I'm remembering going on a first and only date to see Jeremy Irons have wax poured on his tummy by Madonna or something. Does this make sense? Is that a movie called Damage?

[User] That sounds like a dream. That sounds like a fever dream. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Oh, that was a first and last date for sure.

[User] I mean, I've been broken up with on the way to the movie theater and then we still watched the movie. (Brian & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] Oh my god!

[User] That was a long time ago.

[Assistant] What was the movie? What was the movie?

[User] That was Where the Wild Things Are, which I was like, you know, this might lift our spirits. But that movie was all about therapy. It was James Gandolfini being upset that he was being broken up with. (Gemma laughs) It was literally the argument that we just had, that we then saw acted out by CGI and—well practical costumed beasts. But so back to with Eyes Wide Shut that first viewing was, so like, I was so out of my element and kind of like out of my body, out of my mind, that I didn't really grow to appreciate it until I had seen it the second time which would have been in college a few years later. And since then, I've probably seen it four—four times. I love rewatching movies, but I don't rewatch movies as much as a number of people I love on Letterboxd do. Just like, dang, you watched Portrait of a Lady on Fire twelves times in the last like two months! I definitely spaced them out over a couple years and they age with them, I guess.

[Assistant] That's an interesting way to put it. I have a few favorites that I love that I don't want to watch. Because I've watched a few favorites and then you watch them too soon too close together I start to pick them apart. You know, the flaws become ever more obvious on like seventh viewing and then I start to question, is this not a good movie? (Slim laughs) Is this a bad movie that I shouldn't love anymore? So I totally appreciate that.

[User] Well, that's something I think that is a big part of festival movies as well where you kind of like have a festival high. And if you watch it like a couple months later, you're like, actually it wasn't as good as I thought. It is definitely a very real thing. But the intro to this movie, I do like that you brought up how often he brings out his doctor card. Because I think that that's like such a great entry point into his character. Like the whole reason why he is, well, part of the argument with Nicole Kidman starts she says that she's like fantasized about this sailor before they got married. She asks him, she, like interrogates him about whether he's like, had thoughts about other women or like when he is examining them, etc. And he says no, and part of the reason he says is "because of you". And she gets very upset because she's like that, I don't have anything to do with this like, you're you're using me as the excuse not to do something. And I feel like the doctor card is an entry point into like, he's so concerned with how other people think about him, that he knows that by saying he's a doctor, you're instantly kind of given a certain amount of goodwill of like, oh, this is someone I can trust. This is someone maybe heroic or like, this is a good person. I think that that is like essentially what the reason why he pulls out that card—which again, I don't even know if this exists. (Brian laughs) These types of cards exist, but or maybe he just made one himself and like, he's the only card carrying doctor of like, "Look, I'm a doctor look at this card that I have." (Gemma laughs) But that's something that I think is like a great little touch in the movie, the fact that he does it so much. And it's always kind of like to grant entry to something where he's basically testing if he can actually do something on his own or if he's just like, guided by this fear of being judged by other people.

[Assistant] All I said in my review of Eyes Wide Shut—and thank you for the excuse to watch it. I didn't, I didn't completely hate it. But I'll tell you what I hated. That piano score. Oh my god, if I never, ever, have to hear that particular note of G played on a piano like that again. (sound of piano note of G plays over and over)

[User] You know for sure I'm gonna edit that into the segment right here playing behind your complaint. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] I was gonna, I was gonna bring my electric piano and play it just for you and Brian and make that the rest of the episode and see how you like it. So thanks for that!

[User] I do specifically remember watching that in the theater on my terrible date and everyone laughing so hard every time that key was hit. I was not, mostly I was still just like, so nervous about everything going on. (Brian & Gemma laugh) But I specifically remember—I mean, so I grew up in Boise, Idaho, which we have a independent film theater, it's called The Flicks. Shout out to The Flicks. I'm glad they still exist. They showed a lot of great movies, but by and large, this was a you know, an off the beaten trail type of movie for the Cineplex in Boise, so I think that repeated keynote made everyone just be like, okay, I felt weird about this all along. Now I can like giggle because like, this is too much. I actually like it.

[Assistant] There was way too much for me and I like the piano, don't get me wrong. (music from Master and Commander fades in) But speaking of soundtracks, I think that we should move to your second film, which I had never seen that I'd seen a lot of chat about because it became over the last year of lockdown one of those, I guess, comfort rewatches for a lot of Letterboxd members for one reason or another and I now understand. Peter Weir's fourth-highest-rated movie on Letterboxd, which is Master and Commander starring Russell Crowe. What put this into your four favorites?

[User] Well, so yeah, the theme, the theme was that I chose for this was doctors 'cause I had just had surgery after a couple months of intense pain. And so it was kind of my, I don't know about ode, but maybe an ode to my surgeon. Because my favorite character in this movie is Paul Bettany's character who—well, there's great rapport between him and Russell Crowe, for sure. And I think the dynamic between basically like a war hawk and a very curious like, he's a surgeon, but he's also very curious about Darwinism and science in general. And it's kind of like, the way that they work together is kind of how government should work where you have like this very strong person who will get things done, but you also have someone who's very curious in the way that they kind of battle with each other a little bit because they respect each other and they hear each other out. And I think that, that that interplay is for me is what makes the movie really special because otherwise I feel like it would just be like cannonballs and versus France. And it'd be rather rapid and exciting but it's the surgeon character that I think grounds it into something that is a little. a little more interesting.

[Assistant] This took place three years after Gladiator. This has always been a movie that I had not seen of Russell Crowe. Say what you will about him today, but man, he had quite an era around this timeframe. And it finally was on Prime Video for those of us in the state. So I was finally able to sit down and watch this ad of this week. And I loved it. I love Master and Commander I was kind of blown away. I have some friends that speak its praises quite often. And I was like yeah, whatever. Russell Crowe at sea, I'm not watching that. (Slim laughs) And boy was I wrong! His hair in this movie is so luscious. My god! He looks amazing!

[User] Like is it his hair? Is it a wig? I don't care. It is a thing of beauty. It was, I also caught on Disney+, weirdly enough, in New Zealand. So that was exciting. And again, same thing, a film that so many people had spoken of that I never caught. I don't know why. And I know there's been a lot of talk this week especially around Cannes and access to screeners versus screenings in cinemas. And you know, if a movie is good, it'll work on any screen. But this is one film I wish, wish, wish I had seen on the big screen when it came out. Where were you when you saw it, Brian?

[Assistant] I was on my couch. (Gemma & Brian & Slim laugh) I also had skipped this back. I was—so, when this came out is when I was at the height of my film snobbery like at university and only watching French New Wave and the Czech, the Czech New Wave and like all of that stuff. So yeah, Russell Crowe was in, actually—I could be wrong. But I think they were back to back, Gladiator and A Beautiful Mind Best Pictures. And at that point I just kind of like okay, like I am losing interest a little bit in Russell Crowe but I am actually very annoyed that I had maybe thought that back then. Because there's something very early on, his weevil joke, which he tells perfectly!


[User] Do you see those two weevils doctor?

[Assistant] I do.

[User] Which would you choose?

[Assistant] Neither, there's not a scrap of difference between them. They're the same species of curculio.

[User] If you had to choose, if you were forced to make a choice, if there was no other response.

[Assistant] Well, then, if you're going to push me—I would choose the right hand weevil, it has significant advantage in both length and breadth.

[User] There! I have you! You're completely dished. Do you not know know that in the service, one must always choose the lesser of two weevils. (laughter)