[User] It's such like an entry point of like, yes, of course like he'd be great in something like The Nice Guys and like he needs to do a little bit more comedy. Because he had—it's just like one line joke but just everything about the way that he tells it and his smirk afterward is just perfect, perfect timing.

[Assistant] We have a weird relationship with Russell Crowe, us New Zealanders, because he is a New Zealander who rejected us for Australia, which is—I don't know how much you know about New Zealand/Australian relations.

[User] Educate us.

[Assistant] Well, while we are upset that he's left us, we will constantly remind everybody including Slim and Brian that Russell is in fact New Zealander. (Slim laughs) And yet, I watched Master and Commander and all, all of that, like everything was forgiven. Russell Crowe in a blousey white shirt. (Slim laughs) With that head of hair. I like that shot of him standing, just holding, holding the whatever the front masters called.

[User] What people don't realize is that we had a Slack DM this week and Gemma was sharing, you know, 1980s Russell band videos, music videos. So the deep cut that she mentioned is quite real and it hasn't healed yet. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] There are movies you finish and you go, well, that was good. And then there are movies you finished and you want to dive immediately back into that world. So I can see why everybody's craving a sequel.

[User] Shall we venture back to Cannes. There's a lot of anticipated movies that Brian, you saw already, that us in the States will probably still have to wait a little bit for. One of those that jumps out at me at least is The French Dispatch. And maybe that's probably one of the more mainstream movies that for those unfamiliar with Cannes are also waiting for. That's the next Wes Anderson film. It's got probably one of the biggest casts of all time, maybe since Ocean's Eleven. But what's your vibe on The French Dispatch? Brian, you've seen it?

[Assistant] I think The French Dispatch is a lot of fun. What I liked about it the most is how Wes Anderson was starting to use different visual language. Like it's still very, very design oriented. But because he's making an anthology film while—if people don't know that know that term, like there are multiple stories, they're not necessarily connected as like one plot dragging you all the way through, the plot is just hit this magazine exist. Basically, it's the New Yorker, except it's in France in a made up town kind of like how he made up a country for Grand Budapest Hotel, so that he can kind of just make everything look like he wants. But he uses black and white, he uses a lot of negative space, which is something that I love in movies, but you don't really get as much from Wes Anderson because he just fills every area of the screen all the time. But this one, he does lean in a little bit more to the French New Wave aesthetic for a couple of the stories which includes a little more patience in the shots and and a lot more negative space. But you still get the like kind of birthday cake look in many other areas. Because it is an anthology film, I think it is, and it's stuffed with so many details, like it's something that I would actually like to watch in a slower rate. Like I know how some people like that you can watch it faster on Netflix. I would kind of like the watch a little slower because there's so much packed in and the dialogue is so quick. Sometimes like you'll be watching it and I'd be like wait, I don't even—who is this person? Because it's like so quick because the stories themselves are very quick. But having said all that, I actually think, I guess it's technically the second one because Owen Wilson gets kind of like a little bit of an epilogue. But the one that Benicio del Toro is the main character in with Adrian Brody, Tilda Swinton and Léa Seydoux, that one is so strong that a part of me wishes that maybe he had just made an entire movie from that, that section. Because it is the strongest story and it is the most fleshed out. And the other ones are kind of like, they're really fun but they're really, they're really quick and they're not as fleshed out as the one with Benicio del Toro. And part of that, I think, is just Benicio del Toro, if you're familiar with his work, he is a slower actor just like with how his rate of speech, his use of his body, I think there's just something, his physicality of being in scenes for Wes Anderson just kind of makes everything register more.

[User] The other topic that is curious to me, and is also been some of the discourse, maybe every time this Festival comes around, which is seeing a movie—and I think this came up with Demi. Seeing a movie before everyone else can, you know, months before, you're able to have your own newly formed opinion on a movie before there is any kind of, you know, mindshare about a film. That seems so weird to me. Does that go into your mind when you're seeing a movie ahead of 99% of the audience that will eventually see it?

[Assistant] Um, not so much. The only time that that is actually entered my mind was actually when I covered the Venice Film Festival in 2017 for Collider, and I really did not like Three Billboards, and everyone else did.

[User] Same.

[Assistant] But I was the only negative review on Rotten Tomatoes for that for three months.

[User] Oh my god.

[Assistant] I kept getting like weird emails from people who like follow Oscars about like, "You ruined it's 100% blah, blah, blah." (Slim laughs) That's just like—and then when the movie like actually comes out it gets like a ton of negative reviews. But it was, that was a very bizarre experience and kind of like weird entry point into how like, you know, some people you know, love the Oscars so much that they kind of just want to know what is big before they even see anything. And that's like something that I'm not so sure about, but that's something that at Cannes, I know, sort of like the last—2019 Cannes had some Oscar winners. Obviously Parasite won best picture but also Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood. But that is very rare for Cannes to kind of have like that Oscar pull through later, many months later. Mostly because a lot of the ones that the US studios are going to push really hard they save for the fall. But because of that, I think that there is a little bit more, I guess purity to your response as opposed to like, okay, ultimately how is this gonna land for everyone? But I will say this. And I think this is very real about every festival, is that if you watch a couple movies in a row that you don't like or kind of—let's say you watch some stinkers. And every festival has some stinkers. And so you're kind of just waiting for a movie to wow you. And sometimes there might be an overreaction, particularly if it's early in the festival where—I mean, this is also the first time I've been in a movie theater since First Cow in March 2020. So that alone, just like how that changes my viewing experience was quite remarkable. And then I also was going multiple times a day. And I think just like the desire to be wowed in a theater at this festival itself might be, might have, you might see some like, okay, like everyone kind of overreacted to this, that I think has more to do with just like the excitement of being here. And also not maybe seeing something pretty crummy earlier in the day. Or just wanting to be wowed by something. Because I know the internet's have come back. But a lot of the films that have been released in theaters, there hasn't been anything that grabbed me until I came to the festival. And I think that some reactions might seem like a little overdone. And even though the film might be very good, and I think that that's a part of the reason why.

[User] Before we move on to your final two four favorites, if that makes any sense. Actually, even before what I'm about to ask you I've got some very, very fresh news to drop from Letterboxd HQ, which is two years on from the power of Parasite at Cannes 2019, it has just become the first film to have half a million five-stars logged on Letterboxd.

[Assistant] Wooww.

[User] It just doesn't stop! It's an absolute steamroller.

[Assistant] I don't want to be left out of the breaking news. So I can now reveal that Julia Ducournau's Titane has just won the Palme d'Or! And Asghar Farhadi's A Hero has won the Grand Prix. So Brian, where did these films sit with you?

[User] I keep like jockeying back and forth about which one I think is the best film at the festival. But they couldn't be any more different. There's so like completely opposite. A Hero, Asghar Farhadi made A Separation. And it's, it's a story about a man who is coming out, he's on leave from his prison sentence, which is something I guess that you can do in Iran. 'Cause he's in a debtors prison. And so he gets out on leave, and he attempts to like gather some money together so that he can absolve his credit. And it's basically, he uses the press in a type of way. But it's navigating how like small lies becomes something that, well, basically withholding a truth becomes a lie, even though it's not maybe an actual lie. But it becomes perceived as one as kind, it's kind of like a ball rolling down the hill of all these things kind of going wrong within his story, even though his story is rather factual. And the other one that I was blown away by was Titane. Definitely something that I feel like you should go in knowing very, very little because there are some moments in this movie that surprised me more than any movie has in a long time. But I should warn it also is very, very intense. There's a lot of body horror stuff, also some body comedy. The reason why it's exciting is because they all kind of like build to something that is kind of cathartic. And it becomes kind of sweet in the end, which is totally unexpected. So there there are payoffs and she's very smart throughout about what, she's not just doing something to shock people on and that's it. Everything that she's doing has a very specific purpose toward the theme that you kind of attach yourself to later in the movie. But those are the two that wowed me here. (music from Darkman fades in)

[Assistant] Yeah, those two are definitely now at the top of my watchlist. But is it time to go back to your Letterboxd favorites with Darkman. 3.3 average on Letterboxd, 24 fans. Last week, Josh Ruben had this in his top four as well. And this has entered your top four also. Liam Neeson horribly disfigured, so it is carrying the curse of movies for Gemma of disfigured men that must wear a mask. The streak continues. But what is it about Darkman that you also find endearing? And where does this rate on the scale of superhero movies for you?

[User] Well, what I find endearing about it is it's kind of the most Sam Raimi in the ways that I really like and enjoy. Like, his, I don't know, there's probably a term for this, but I don't I'm not sure what it is, but it's like Dutch-angle push in, he just is doing all the time in this. I like how there are some, I mean, there's one actor in particular that I'm not familiar with at all, Larry Drake, who just gets to chew scenery. He's the main villain in this. I love when a movie like this kind of grants a lesser known actor to have all the naughty stuff you've given to them. He chops off fingers with his cigar cutter, that's what I'm alluding to.

[Assistant] So good.

[User] But as for, the pink-elephant scene is really just kind of what pushes us over into like, I kinda love how bizarre and silly this movie is, which is just Liam Neeson freaking out at the carnival, trying to win something for Frances McDormand. And it just shows Sam Raimi's creativity of there's, there's like panels falling out behind him as is like, basically his mind is exploding and he wants to like beat up this carnival man over this stupid pink elephant. That is, when I first watched the movie, that was when like, because beforehand I was like, okay, this is kind of fun, but I was like, alright, this is a little bit like next level ridiculous in a way that is very, very fun. And again, very Sam Raimi. But it is a movie that I really like, and I have not seen in anyone's top four. So I saw that you guys have discussed that last week. And I was like, wow, what are the odds? (Brian & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] I know! I was thinking the same thing.

[User] All I'll say, which I didn't get to say in the previous episode, is that I really struggled with Larry Drake in this movie, because for me, he will always be the sweet and wonderful Benny from L.A. Law and nobody else and it's very, very hard to watch Benny chop fingers off a person.

[Assistant] L.A. Law. Wow. (music from The Skin I Live In fades in)

[User] Yeah, speaking of disfiguring other people's bodies, we move to the second most popular film from Spain on the whole of Letterboxd and the second most popular film of Spanish filmmaking hero, Pedro Almodóvar, The Skin I Live In. Highly rated, highly controversial. Coming up to its tenth anniversary very soon. Sits on a ton of Letterboxd horror lists, including Evan's Horror Movies by Gay Directors. Sits in a list called High Art Genre Movies. On a dysphorroria list—that's quite hard to say. Movies That Are Better When You Don't Know Anything About Them. Actually plenty of overlap on lists that also include Eyes Wide Shut for many obvious reasons. It's also on Letterboxd power member Sally Jane Black's trans list but she hated it and for very good reason. It is in your top four Brian, explain yourself.

[Assistant] I think that it is, I mean it's highly entertaining and keeps you guessing but I think part of the reason why I react positively to this and this is—I'm pausing because I'm trying to make sure that I say this in a way that is digestible. There are a lot of, I've seen a number of rape-revenge movies. And I think what makes The Skin I Live In ultimately extremely interesting is how it basically puts that in a box twice. Because the, I mean, I guess like to describe that even further would be giving away some plot points but I think that while it's kind of remarkable that ultimately whose side you become on by the end of the movie, and even though that might not sit well with a lot of people and I definitely understand that. I also, like I am vocal even on this like Letterboxd and everywhere else else in life, like I was abused when I was younger as well. So I definitely understand the reservation to getting, to where the movie goes. But for, for me, the way that like, who you feel sympathy for in the end is kind of a remarkable feat to pull off. I think.

[User] I think your read the Wiki for this movie, maybe last year, or the year before. I think because it was on a Letterboxd list of like, You won't be the same after you see this movie or something, one of those lists. And even knowing the plot twist, you know, the reveal of something that happens in this movie. I feel like I still wasn't quite prepared for this film. I can't think of any other movie that I've seen. Like this. I don't know Gemma, how do you feel about The Skin I Live In?

[Assistant] Almodóvar is so much fun. I enjoy a lot of his romps and I adore Pain and Glory, adore it. But I had avoided The Skin I Live In, partly the poster, and pretty much mostly other people's warnings that it will make you quite uncomfortable. And I tend to gravitate towards things that delight and surprise and make me laugh. I guess I prepared myself in advance by—and thanks for sharing Brian, by diving into a few Letterboxd, non-spoilery reviews by members I admire and feel in some way connected to. To just get a sense of where they sit with it before I watched, which I don't often do with films, usually I just want to go in blind and then work out my thoughts afterwards and then find people who have other things to say and you know, build a picture from there. But in this case, I guess, it's to do with and Ella Kemp wrote a beautiful essay for us about content consideration and what people might want to know going in rather than coming out. And so it was, it was sort of a work of content consideration for me to prepare myself in some way but even having said that, there is no way, unless you have the plot spoiled for you, that you can truly be prepared for how The Skin I Live In plays out. And yeah, I really, I then went back and revisited Sally Jane Black's review and a few other reviews to sort of understand the elements of misogyny and transphobia. But Brian, what you have just said has really, really helped me land in a place of peace with this film and it's weird place within Almodóvar's filmography.

[User] I will say so there's something that doesn't sit well with me each time that I've watched it and I'm not even sure that it really needs to be in there. I remember in the theater being kind of put off by this but like the whole—I don't know if it's just because like Almodóvar needs a character like this but everything with Tiger I feel like doesn't work.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Agree.

[Assistant] And I think that it makes the viewing experience which is already going to get a little rough, maybe a little too rough.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I think like that's that's the only part of the movie that definitely makes me quite uncomfortable. Other areas make me uncomfortable but in interesting ways and ways their own kind of like working through my feelings or what does this mean? Or like what you know, various things about consent, etc. The whole, the whole everything with Tiger is just, it's just too much.

[User] I would just love to jump in because Josh Ruben, talking about him and in Darkman and everything else last week. We talked a lot with him about why in his promo for his film Werewolves Within. He's been supporting, encouraging people to support Trans Lifeline and since we're talking about Sally Jane Black, and since she has been a patron of Letterboxd for a long time. A couple of days ago, she posted up a post on Letterboxd just simply entitled Surgery, and just basically as fundraising and asking the Letterboxd community to support fundraising for surgery that she has finally arrived at. And she's written more words, as she writes, than she can count on being trans, trans representation dysphoria, and surgery. "Some trans folks don't need surgery. Some do. I do more than anything you can imagine." So the link for that fundraiser will be in the notes for this episode. And I just want to shout out Sally Jane Black and say I'm so grateful that her incredibly deep writings on films like this exist on Letterboxd because that's usually the first place I go, when, when I have unsettled questions out of a movie viewing, such as The Skin I Live In.

[Assistant] I would definitely second that. Sally Jane was one of the very first members that I found on Letterboxd that was, I mean, A) who had seen so many movies that I'd never heard of that is just like adding to my watchlist after watchlist after watchlists, but also provided like such, I mean, well thought out thoughts and interesting viewpoints that maybe I had not considered and that definitely through Sally Jane's posts, was able to, you know, find a much larger trans community on Letterboxd, which is one of my favorite aspects of Letterboxd, because that's so under represented within the print world that I've been in for such a long time. And it's, it's very vibrant. It's very profound on Letterboxd and I love that aspect of that. And it does, a number of those reviews do make me kind of go back and think. And that is something that I did with The Skin I Live In as well, as well after. And I think they're all, all the criticisms are, are definitely valid and onpoint as well. It deserves its divisiveness.

[User] We have one movie that we want to close out with and it's from the section on Letterbox that's rated higher than average. (music from Babe fades in) And I think this is popped up also on a few other episodes. Babe: Pig in the City. (Brian chuckles) You have rated—I don't know what you were expecting me to say. But I guess Babe wasn't it. Four and a half stars. And that is rated higher against the average on Letterboxd, which I think is at a 2.95?

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean it's incorrect, let's be honest, yeah.

[User] Let me run the numbers here. (Gemma & Slim laugh) Last movie to talk about, what's your fond memories of Babe? And and why does that rate so highly compared to the average for you?

[Assistant] Well, I mean, it rates more highly. Just because George Miller is a genius. And I liked Babe, the first one. But I think it's a little more modeling and Babe: Pig in the City has a little bit more punk edge. I mean, he has like pink poodles and dog collars. And I don't know, there's something about the fear of a rural person going to the city. And it kind of like plays that out in ways that—I grew up in Idaho, and like my, every one of my family is still afraid of cities. And like, like my mom went to like pick her up at the airport in LA, she's just like, so tense, because like, we're in LA driving. And it's like, no, like, I do this all the time. It's not that hard. But like there is this, like, fear of cities, from rural areas that plays out and kind of like mad cap kind of ridiculous ways. And ultimately, they learn things from the city and the city learns a little bit from them as well. (Gemma laughs) And they're, you know, there's balloons dropping, which is something that George Miller loves to do. That's a great visual. I just think it's a lot of fun. And I've never understood the dislike for that. Because like, what I love about sequels is when they do something very different from the first and that's something I guess that's why a lot of people underrate it. But like why do we want to watch the second thing be the exact same as the first? Like, it's always more fun and exciting if it's, it's a little bit different. And also, basically because George Miller kind of ghost directed a lot of Babe and had some arguments with the, with the director—

[User] With the pig? (Slim & Brian laugh)

[Assistant] About it as well. And so ultimately, like Babe: Pig in the City is I feel like it's kind of like what he set out, wanted to make with Babe. And now he gets to make it and he gets to put it to rest. But also, I mean, I'll have to commend you guys for choosing that because, I mean, I'm gonna look like a Babe, like the biggest Babe lover on earth because it's the header of my Twitter is Nicole Kidman and Kate Winslet with Babe. (Gemma laughs)

[User] I mean, why wouldn't it be? From your rated higher than average, we could have chosen Marie Antoinette but you wrote about that in one of your Cannes diaries. I recommend everyone read it. We could have chose a Magic Mike XXL. We could have chosen Crash. We could have chosen another Russell Crowe starrer, Noah. But no, we need to talk about Babe: Pig in the City. And that just gives me an opportunity to shout out another pig related rural person goes into the city, in this case Portland, Oregon movie that's just out this week and I don't know if either of you have caught it yet, but it's Michael Sarnoski's Pig starring Nicolas Cage.

[Assistant] It's on my watchlist, you better believe it.

[User] Unexpected. Everyone will say this. That was not what I expected. It's definitely one of those ones, I guess, it's better to go in, as everyone always says, knowing nothing about. But I would like to qualify that by saying, that it's not an action movie. Just know that. It's not an action genre movie. And I'm saying that, I'm spoiling the genre, because I spent the entire time watching it on edge. It was a completely different film. And then I didn't sleep for four hours afterwards. Not because of any horror, but because my, my psyche was unsettled by an expectation of a genre that never came. It was a tonal—and this is, I guess this is the thing with Nic Cage, right, is you never know what you're going to get, so you should not expect anything but.

[Assistant] Some people are calling this the spiritual sequel to Babe: Pig in the City. (Brian & Gemma laugh)

[User] Some people—being you! (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[Assistant] That is probably where a third Babe would go, it'd be a lot of intense reflection on life. (Brian laughs) Many decades late. (Slim laughs)

[User] I love that you've finally made it to Cannes in real life, Brian. after years of wanting to go there. And then of course, last year, your plans were dashed. And I guess if we're going to be supremely progressively liberal in this moment, and inclusive and intersectional, it would be to acknowledge the privilege of being able to be at Cannes in person where so many others can't be. But I think it's also important for the listeners to know that these were plans you had last year that were dashed, and that you almost didn't make it this year because of your medical emergency. And so just congratulations on making it. Congratulations on showing up. I'm sorry your tuxedo has never come out of the, of the closet this time round.

[Assistant] Oh, I'm fine with that. I'm not even sure if it fits anymore. (Gemma & Brian laugh) To be honest.

[User] We are so grateful for having had you on the ground reporting in on the daily and I highly recommend everyone read your diary entries on our Festiville HQ because they're not just reviews, you paint the picture for us of what it's like to be in Cannes—I was gonna say post-pandemic, but we're still in the thick of it. So thank you, thank you for your sacrifice slash privilege.

[Assistant] Yeah, thank you for having me. I actually, so I got my last, I'm vaccinated, fully vaccinated. But I got my last Covid test yesterday which I was actually nervous about, because that's the one that like reentering the states. So I was like, well, hopefully didn't run into anything here. But I'm in the clear. And yeah, to the access of festivals, I think there's a lot to learn from how like New York Film Fest, etc did last year, which opened up to a lot of people. But also like with Cannes as well, just like how the ticketing aspect of it made it so that there was less of a hierarchy than other years before. And I think that that's an area, I did open this by saying, you know, Cannes is the snootiest film festival like they, the movie I'm looking forward to the most of this year is Power of the Dog and they offered that but like it won't play just because it's a Netflix movie. And it would have to be out of competition. So in the same way that like Cannes is kind of launching this attack on that, there's ways to be more modern that Cannes is not doing and I think like opening up to having more people to view from not being present is one of those areas. And hopefully they can do that, because I think you know film festivals should be much more accessible from here on.

[User] Thanks so much for listening to The Letterboxd Show and thanks to our guest this episode, Brian Formo for sharing his love of his favorite movies. You can read Brian's daily diaries from Cannes on our Festival HQ page, which you should be following because that's where the Letterboxd buzz is during every festival season. Next episode we have another special guest direct from Cannes to talk about sensuous cinema. You might want to watch Lingua Franca before then, Slim.

[Assistant] I'll add it to my watchlist right now. After I do that, just a reminder, you can follow Gemma, Slim, that's me and our HQ page on Letterboxd, using the links in the episode notes. Thanks to composing dynamos Moniker for their theme music 'Vampiros Dancoteque'. And if you are enjoying the show and maybe have guest ideas, be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Quick shout out to a few friends that did, slingermanjones, Danny, McKenzie, Ben, and searchingforsoul as they left a review letting us know that they're digging the new format. The Letterboxd show is a TAPEDECK production.

[User] And that's it. Although, I have one final question for you, Slim.

[Assistant] Uh oh.

[User] Which weevil would you choose? (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I would choose that luscious blonde hair, for God's sake.


[User] Mr. Président, est-ce que vous pouvez nous dire, quelle cera le Premier Prix? Can you tell me which prize is the First Prize?

[Assistant] Yes, I can. (laughter)

[User] Cool. (applause)

[Assistant] The film that won the Palme D'or is Titane.

[User] Wait, wait, wait, no! (confusion ensues with laughter and applause)

[Assistant] Welcome to The Letterboxd Show, a podcast about movies from Letterboxed: the social network for film lovers. Each episode has Slim—that's me—and Gemma are joined by a Letterboxd friend for a chat about their top four on Letterboxd. That's the four movies they choose as their favorite films on their Letterboxd profile. We have links in the episode notes to the movies, lists and people we talk about. So you can follow along, adding those movies to your watchlists. And today, just back from Cannes, is writer, director, editor, actress and Letterboxd member, is Isabel Sandoval.

[User] Now, Isabel has just written a very thirsty essay for us about sensual cinema, which features a super horny script excerpt from her feature film Lingua Franca, which premiered at Venice Days, part of the Venice Film Festival in the before times, otherwise known as 2019. Isabel's films also include Apparition and from earlier this year, the Miu Miu Women's Tales #21, Shangri-La. Isabel four Letterboxd favorites are Hiroshima Mon Amour, Jeanne Dielman, In the Mood for Love and Punch-Drunk Love. Isabel has not reviewed any of these films on her Letterboxd profile. So she is here, with us, right now, on The Letterboxd Show to explain her choices.

[Assistant] I feel like I opened several episodes this season with admitting something very brave. So I'm going to do it again right now. I'm gonna admit something. I had to Google French New Wave after seeing Hiroshima Mon Amour. (Gemma laughs)

[User] Wow.

[Assistant] So thank you, Isabel. Listen, there's gonna be people just like me that are listening, that are having their world opened up. What was your introduction to this style of filmmaking growing up? Like, how did you discover movies like this?

[User] It's funny because I grew up, you know, I was born and raised in Philippines. And it's not really, you know, like access to World Cinema and foreign films, is not easy, to put it mildly. And growing up, I remember one of my earliest childhood memories, was my mom took me to a movie palace. That's what we called those movie theaters that were built before the war. And they were, you know, massive and enormous and quite ornate in the interior. Although I was born well after that. (Isabel chuckles) She took me to watch—when I was four—this comedy movie starring the Filipino Charlie Chaplin and his young kid. I don't remember much about the movie itself. But I was just enthralled by, you know, this massive image being projected onto the screen. And that got me started with my love affair with cinema. And at that time, you know, I really only had access to like Filipino melodramas and the genre movies, like slapstick, slapstick movies and horror, and the few Hollywood, you know, blockbusters that would get shown there. So it wasn't until college when, you know, interestingly enough that's when piracy became rampant in the Philippines and in a lot of, you know, Asian countries that I remember the very first art house pirated DVD I saw being sold in the stalls, you know, in the streets in Cebu was Beware of the Holy Whore by Rainer Werner Fassbinder. (Isabel laughs)

[Assistant] Whaaat? What an introduction!

[User] So after that, yeah, I saw, you know, pirated DVDs of films by Kurosawa, you know, Hitchcock. I remember seeing M by Fritz Lang. And that's, you know, how I got introduced to the work of the masters and our international auteurs. And there was also you know, around that time, when Wong Kar-wai rose to prominence. You know, that was in the early nineties. He had Chungking Express. That was shortly followed by Happy Together, and of course in 2000 he had, what is considered his masterpiece, In the Mood for Love.

[Assistant] Which we will get to.

[User] Yes!

[Assistant] Got something stuck in my head now about sensual slapstick as a genre? (Gemma & Isabel laugh)

[User] Did we just create that right now? (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] Back to Hiroshima Mon Amour. What film. This is my first Alain Resnais. I'm also going to be brave, Slim, and admit that.

[User] Go ahead, please.

[Assistant] It's been on my watchlist for a long time. And it's now ticked off the list thanks to you. What an extraordinary film. (music from Hiroshima Mon Amour plays)

[User] Yeah. And it's interesting because, you know, when we think of French New Wave, you know, the names that come to mind are Truffaut, for instance, you know, The 400 Blows, and Godard with Breathless and, you know, the '60s was a very prolific decade for him. And Alain Resnais is actually part of the left bank the French New Wave, in other words are characterized by maybe what we call a more austere, philosophical, informal approach, that's a start opposite to kind of the freewheeling, very energetic, you know, frantic filmmaking of Godard, for instance. And what, you know, really impressed me about Hiroshima Mon Amour was how, you know, formally daring it was. And for a film that was made in 1959, you know, just how modern it felt in its approach to time and memory. And the one thing that I love most about this film is how the past, you know, seemingly blurs into the present. And that, you know, it doesn't make any clear distinction of something that happens in the present time, versus a memory, and how when he achieves this through both visual and sound editing techniques. You know, of course, when the film opens, it is the storyline the film happens in Hiroshima. But over the course of the narrative, we are brought back to the events that happen in the small town that Emmanuelle Riva, you know, lived in when she was a teenager, and she has this affair with a German soldier and because of that, she becomes a pariah in her community, and she becomes ostracized. The death of her lover, and her ostracism, are traumatic events in her life. And how this film isn't bearing in the sense that—and it might be considered inelegant and gauche in our current moment the how it juxtaposes her personal trauma. You know, losing her lover, which is so devastating and traumatic for her, versus the more collective historical trauma, the trauma of what happened in Hiroshima during the Second World War.

[Assistant] As I said, to start off the show, you know, I had to do some intense Googling after this, because my eyes were open to, you know, a different kind of filmmaking. I had seen In the Mood for Love this year, for the first time for my other podcast, 70mm. But this is kind of, everyone was saying, see In the Mood for Love, you know, blow your mind. So I don't think I was ready to experience In the Mood for Love yet when I first saw it. So after I saw this movie, I wrote in my Letterboxd review, like this is my In the Mood for Love. I guess I was more prepared to experience this, you know, these two lovers, having this dialogue at the bar, and over the course of a day just talking about their previous life experiences and how painful it was with the backdrop of Hiroshima. I was blown away by this movie, like the photography is out of sight in this film. The relationship between the two leads were so real. You know, you feel that kind of draw between the architect of like, I don't want to leave you, I want to spend more time with you. And it also touched upon the kind of free love nature that I feel like was more prevalent in this era. You know, they talked about how, you know, "I have a husband, I have a wife", but that nature in this film just felt kind of normal, almost, where it was just kind of a thing that just happens.

[User] I admired it's kind of moral restraint and avoidance of melodrama, in that sense. And these are, you know, two adults—two consenting adults—engaging. And because I also like films that, yeah, essentially just the void, dramatic cliches. And you know, there are many ways to tell this kind of story where essentially becomes a melodrama about adultery or infidelity. But Alain Resnais priorities thematically are very different. You know, it is a meditation, the passage of time and memory more than a comment on the public opinion and the morality of these characters.

[Assistant] It is a massively beloved film across Letterboxd. And so Criterion Channel recently joined Letterboxd, which is very exciting for us. They are curating incredible lists on the daily which, I mean, that's a brilliant HQ to follow today, in order to open up your filmmaking watchlists. They have a list called Questioning Love, and Hiroshima Mon Amour is on that. It's on lots and lots of 90 minute or less lists. But you know, what's interesting about that is, you know, people are looking for a sort of short hit, as opposed to Jeanne Dielman, which we'll get to. It's in Directors Visit Japan, it's an Conversations on Film, Memory and Yearning, Socialism and leftism, as you pointed out, and a list of Atomic Weapons, and of course, it turns up on a bunch of Horny lists. So yeah, it is definitely a Letterboxd fave. I guess I want to ask about how it links to Lingua Franca. And, you know, going back to those beautiful, entwined limbs scenes that we get in the opening of the film. It feels really like a companion piece to your film.

[User] I think, you know, having also just rewatched Hiroshima Mon Amour recently and realizing now that besides, you know, the the shots of the intertwined limbs and the sensuousness of the imagery, it's, you know, it opens with this French woman, essentially ruminating, you know, and the voice over in French, against a geography of Japan. In the same way, Lingua Franca opens with my character, Olivia, you know, speaking in San Juan against you know, juxtapose with images set in Coney Island. So typical, you know, typically American landscape, and it's about kind of the foreigners perspective of this strange new country that she finds herself in. And it's so interesting, because I also got that inspiration from a Chantal Akerman film, which is News From Home, but I'm realizing now that Renais also, you know, influenced me in that sense. And it's fascinating how certain with films that have, you know, kind of been influential and north stars for an emerging and a budding filmmaker like myself, who is learning the language and the vocabulary of cinema like these formative films. For me, you know, the influence, unconsciously emerge, you know, in the work that I do eventually. And this is apparent in, yeah, even the opening passage of Hiroshima Mon Amour and Lingua Franca.

[Assistant] Just as an aside, if you want to find out—and this is what this podcast is all about. If you want to find out how many fans of film here, you jump on Letterboxd. If you're on the web, you look at the histogram, you know where the ratings graph. If you're on the app, you tick the Watched By section and select the Fans tab. And this is a neat way to find out what other like minded film lovers on Letterboxd might also be watching. So it's sort of a way to find other friends. So at this moment in time, Lingua Franca has a solid seventeen fans. So these are the people not who have rated it five stars, of which there are many, but who have added it to their four favorites. Of one of those people have a particularly love her review, she writes, "seeing a trans woman on screen make love is so, so, so important to me. Oh my god. I'm obsessed with Isabel Sandoval.''

[User] Wow.

[Assistant] And what's interesting about that is their—it is very similar to other Letterboxd reviews of your film, which is that people are literally obsessed with you. How does that feel? (Slim & Isabel laugh)

[User] It's so funny because like some of the Letterboxd members that comment on Lingua Franca treat it like a DM, like a direct message to me. (Gemma laughs) Like they're talking to me through their Letterboxd reviews.

[Assistant] We should also call out that people that want to check out Lingua Franca can do so on Netflix, at least in the US. That's how I watched it. You mentioned reviews for the movie as being a sort of a DM. But I always love to hear from filmmakers how they use Letterboxd for their own works. You know, how do you use Letterboxd to hear what people are saying about your movie, how do you treat it?

[User] I'm very grateful that a platform like Letterboxd exists, because you really get the sense of how cinephilia is still alive, you know, and very much thriving. And it's not just limited to like, literature about cinema, it's not just limited to the ones published by magazines, like Sight and Sound and Film Comment. And there are a lot of, you know, genuine, and, you know, hardcore film lovers that really take the time and really think through the films that they watch and experience and document. You know, that experience, that cinematic experience in their Letterboxd reviews, there are a handful of reviews about Lingua Franca that are, you know, quite lengthy and truly, you know, thoughtful and elegantly written that I feel it's just as worthy of publication as the actual publisher views and for that, you know, it's always a thrill and a joy to read Letterboxd reviews of not just my work, but other films, even though maybe they don't like the film. Because you can see their thought process of how they engage with films, and how it's both an intellectual and emotional experience for them.

[Assistant] I also just want to say I'm a fan girl of the way you fan girl Letterboxd reviews. (Gemma & Slim laugh) It's beautiful. The way you pick out the ones that are sort of like either horny hot takes or when you discover through a Letterboxd review that your genre is apparently sensual Neo-realism. Yeah, it's hugely, it's massively appreciated.

[User] Yeah, I feel like in this past six months, my Twitter account has become kind of like an indirect Criterion and Letterboxd stan account. (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[Assistant] It's time to move on to the second of your four favorites. There's still sex in in. But I guess we're moving away from the horny and sensual towards the transactional. This is Jeanne Dielman, 23, Quai du Commerce 1080 Bruxelles. Or, in English, Jeanne Dielman, 23, Commerce Quay 1080 Brussels. This is Chantal Akerman's 1975 three-and-a-half-hour-long opus about a lonely widowed housewife played by Delphine Seyrig, who does her daily chores, takes care of her apartment where she lives with her teenage son and turns the occasional trick to make ends meet slowly. And there is no fast way to watch this film. Her ritualized daily routines begin to fall apart. Now this is sitting at a 4.2 out of five star average. Scott 708 fans, it is the sixth-highest-rated film by a female director on Letterboxd and it is on our All Time 250. And it is Akerman's highest-rated and most popular movie. So why is it in your top four?

[User] Surely an all timer. You know, I love films that are a paradox, you know, that are a film of opposites. Like you see, on the surface, it seems quite quiet and observational, and, you know, leisurely and quite naturalistic, but underneath the surface, it's a film about you know, that's increasingly brutal, and suffocating and oppressive. And it's about different kinds of tyrannies. The tyranny of domesticity. And it's such a powerful feminist film without being preachy or didactic. And it makes its point simply by observing Jeanne Dielman, you know, over the course of three days, going about her daily rituals and her routine, and because it observes her within this, you know, habitat and within this space, you know, with such kind of detail, almost microscopic detail, we are forced to pay attention to the tiniest and seemingly most mundane gesture so that as you know, these moments and these rituals accumulate, you know, over the course of the three days, any minor disruption or deviation carries such monumental, dramatic weight.

[Assistant] There was a brilliant review, Adam Kempenaar of Filmspotting wrote on Letterboxd, where he figures out that the second trick, she turns the second visitor, the second encounter with one of your clients is the inciting key to the ending. And I guess I must have, I don't know, I was actually doing my laundry while I was watching it, because I thought that that would be—(Gemma & Slim laugh) immersive cinema, right? So I went back and remember that, yeah, he's basically to blame for the potatoes being overcooked. And anyone who's seen the film will understand what a monumental fuckup that was. (Gemma laughs) But it's very, very hard to describe why committing to Jeanne Dielman fully is so important, isn't it? When the basic synopsis is a woman just goes about her daily routine.

[User] And I think, you know, what's even astounding about Akerman's achievement here is that she made this when she was 25.

[Assistant] Oh my god.

[User] I couldn't believe that when I saw that. I found that on Wiki, and then I watched an interview. She looked like she could be nineteen in the interview, I couldn't believe she was so young when she made this movie. I was like blown away, just the status you have. I'm gonna make a three and a half hour movie about the suffocation of domesticity and she did. I was like, okay. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] And you know, it's made with kind of this seeming emotional distance of a documentarian, but also very impressive about this. And what's truly radical about this is that, you know, she essentially made a film that just is about a woman going through her daily rituals. And to consider that worthy of cinematic document.

[User] I have to say, and for pandemic reasons, I am solo parenting for long stretches of time. And I felt so completely seen in so many of these scenes. I have, you know, I have to do this job, I have to get a five year old to school. So I have—and I and my coffee of choice is pour-over. So you know, there are many, many similarities. But honestly, if the coffee goes wrong in the morning, and is not quite enough time to make the lunchbox, something will get broken. There was a week two weeks ago where I smashed three different, you know, items of crockery and glassware. And it just, I watching these scenes, I felt—and this is, what, 1975, it feels like nothing has changed in so many ways about women's daily existence. And as Akerman describes, the importance of ritual to bring peace and to lessen anxiety.

[Assistant] Obviously, I've never seen a movie like this before. And if anyone is—also I think all the movies we're talking about, with the exception of Punch-Drunk Love—is on the Criterion Channel right now. And I'd never experienced a movie like this before. And some of the scenes that jumped out at me, were her conversations with her son, as he was going to bed. About, you know, walking in on his parents making love and then her reaction to some of the conversation where she said "making love as you call it is merely a detail."


[User] I thought some of those conversations were so crazy deep just from an insight into her thinking. And I think this is Mitchell, from Letterboxd's, number-one movie of all time.

[Assistant] Yes, it is. It is.

[User] So I tweeted that like, you know, we're talking about these movies. I got a few replies, people are like "Oh my god, you're talking about this movie. I can't wait." There's a ton of people that feel the same way. So it was an amazing experience watching this. So by all means.

[Assistant] Let's move from a film with incredibly sensual sex scenes to a film with extremely transactional sex scenes to a film with none whatsoever.

[User] Yes!

[Assistant] But one of the sexiest films of all time. In the Mood for Love. This is number 36 of all time on Letterboxd. Wong Kar-wai's most popular and highest-rated film, the number one film from the whole Hong Kong, China region on Letterboxd. Sits on a bunch of lists called Fills the Void, Soft & Slow, Loneliness in Neon Cities and many, many more. Anyway, it is it is hugely beloved and including by you. Tell us about In the Mood for Love and your love for it. (music from In the Mood for Love fades in)

[User] It's funny because when you think about it on, you know, their very basic premise In the Mood for Love and Hiroshima Mon Amour, which is about elicit love affairs, you know, set in Asia in a period setting, could have ended up being the same movie. But because, again, the auteur behind the camera making the film they end up as you know, wildly different films. And what I love about In the Mood for Love, it's similar, again, in a very, very rudimentary level, it's similar to Jeanne Dielman in that it's a movie of paradoxes. It's a movie of opposites. It is about romantic repression, and a style that you would consider visually and musically extravagant, and maximalist. And it's similar also to the style of (inaudible) in that sense, because, you know, his characters are also very emotionally repressed. But he, you know, he is very exuberant with the art direction, the saturated colors, the music, and I consider In the Mood for Love to be the pinnacle of sensuous cinema, I think in the 21st century. I think that is, that might be a bold statement to make.

[Assistant] Very bold. (Gemma laughs)

[User] But for me, you know, sensuousness is not necessarily about sex, or you know, or showing, you know, characters in a sexual encounter. It's about kind of the—the energy, the sexual and erotic, sensuous energy, which is, at its highest and most powerful—let's say just before orgasm. (Isabel & Gemma laugh) So the most sensuous films I would say are those that are, that engage in some kind of cinematic edging. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] Now we're getting somewhere!

[User] You know, usher the audience to the precipice of that, you know, sensual satisfaction, and just frustrated at the right moment to leave a lingering and haunting impression and impact, that will make this film unforgettable.

[Assistant] I mean, without spoilers for anyone who still hasn't seen In the Mood for Love that those last few scenes back in the building. Oh, my god! That's like, yeah, that's edging if I ever saw it.

[User] When I first saw this movie, I think this past year. Also easily one of the most gorgeous movies I've ever seen.

[Assistant] Yes!

[User] The colors, everything pops. I think you can see anyone who talks about In the Mood for Love, they'll post screenshots, you know, of the most gorgeous scenes in this movie. And I was about to reference a Tom Cruise movie because—(Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Don't do it!

[User] I'm doing it anyway! I think he calls himself a 'pleasure delayer' in Vanilla Sky, but really visually, that's what this movie does. It doesn't incorporate any of that stuff. Even their spouses, their partners, are not shown at all in this movie. You know, obviously a very conscious decision. And you had said, I think on a piece that you had done for the Criterion—this is a spoiler, so if anyone has not seen this movie, maybe quick, fast forward. But "'if the lovers in these movies stayed together in the end, they would not be the classics that they are remembered for being now." And I think that the delaying, the edging, right until the end, it pulls it back. And it just leaves you with that lasting memory of what was and what never could been.

[Assistant] I think the best, you know, the most powerful sensuous films leave the audience with—the blue balls, so to speak. (Slim & Gemma & Isabel laugh) The sensual-cinema canon, is a canon of the one that got away.

[User] Can we get that on the cover of the next Criterion release? Can we get that quote from you on like a little circle sticker on the bottom? (Gemma & Isabel laugh)

[Assistant] Before we dive into your last film, which is Paul Thomas Anderson's Punch-Drunk Love, I have a question about edging and touching. And that is—(Gemma chuckles)—you've just been in Cannes. Like a real life, real in-person film festival. And on Twitter, you posted a photo of you touching Tilda Swinton! Oh my god! Tell us everything. Have you showered yet?

[User] Oh my god. (Isabel laughs) Yes, Queen Tilda, who had three movies in Cannes, actually.

[Assistant] Amazing!

[User] Yeah, I've seen two of three films and I'd loved, you know, the two that I saw. I loved—

[Assistant] That was not my question. That's not my question. (Slim & Gemma & Isabel laugh)

[User] Unfortunately, I've washed—

[Assistant] Oh, you have washed. Ahhh, man.

[User] I mean, I didn't for three days, though. But, you know.

[Assistant] It's wonderful to hear that two of her three films have your stamp of approval. And can we also talk about, because you are also a provocateur of nun cinema. Benedetta. Let's talk about our sweet boy Paul Verhoeven.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Slim is praying right now.

[User] I'm a huge Paul fan. I've only recently come into his later works. I just recently saw Elle. So what was the experience like seeing his new, his latest at Cannes?

[Assistant] It was a hoot, you know, really. Benedetta. And especially coming from, you know, growing up in a country that's terribly and neurotically Catholic. (Gemma laughs) You know, we're used to a lot of films about religion, especially about Catholicism, that are very self serious and, you know, self important and somber. To Verhoeven, essentially, vandalized Catholicism, and, you know, gave it a campy treatment. And I thought that was also truly quite subversive, especially when it's taking this story that's based on actual historical events in Italy, and giving it a lighter campier spin and that, you know, Catholicism should not be taking itself seriously because if this was, you know, that story told with a straight face, it would really be about the abuses of the Catholic Church against, you know, women, and would be a lot more cruel and punishing.

[User] I grew up also in the Catholic Church.

[Assistant] Oh snap. (Slim laughs)

[User] So I'm well aware of everything that goes on there. (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] How many Hail Marys are we saying after this?

[User] Gotta go to confession after this episode. But one of your quotes, which I think will get a lot of people interested also in seeing this movie, I think was from a tweet, "why shouldn't Catholicism get its own Showgirls?" (Gemma laughs) And that's a great plug to see that movie.

[Assistant] Yes!

[User] Okay, yes, I need to see this movie right now.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, IFC Films. (Slim laughs) Yeah. You can use that, just pay me. (Isabel laughs)

[User] I love that. I love it so much. And it's a chance for me to just fangirl you once again and say that actually, in your sensual cinema essay for us, you've very generously given us the script for the gorgeous lovemaking scene. My personal favorite Lingua Franca scene was when Olivia and Trixie are sitting in church discussing what kind of husband they're gonna find for Olivia next. It's like, you're gonna make sure it's a handsome one. And I just had this—like, all of that, there's just so much tied up in that one scene. First of all, you're in church. So like, good, Filipina girls, you are, you know, continuing to recognize your faith in a foreign country. But you're trans girls, you're talking about, you know, illegal marriages to get to secure your green cards, and you're talking about the fact that they need to be hot. You know, there's a whole lot of brilliant sort of layers there that Paul Verhoeven would appreciate.

[Assistant] Watching Benedetta inspired me to make a, you know, sequel to Lingua Franca where Trixie and I actually get ourselves to a nunnery. (Slim & Gemma laugh) Because we talk about it in that scene, remember?

[User] Yes, you do! You do! That's genius. Oh my god. I love that. Alright, it is time. It is time for your fourth.

[Assistant] The big one.

[User] The big one. Your most favorite film. A film amongst the four films where—spoilers—the lovers actually get together. So you know, bringing it all back home. We're beyond edging, we're into the full romance of the thing. But not without some volatility, violence, social awkwardness. This is the Adam Sandler starring Punch-Drunk Love by Paul Thomas Anderson from 2002. It has a four out of five star average and it has a whopping 3,500 fans on Letterboxd, of which you are one.

[Assistant] Wow. Punch-Drunk Love is truly just a testament to Paul Thomas Anderson's virtuosity as an auteur. (music from Punch-Drunk Love fades in) And it's, I think, a masterpiece in juggling a lot of tones and emotional registers. And because, in the hands of less talented filmmakers, a film like this would just seem disjointed, you know, and totally inconsistent, and schizophrenic, which is it kinda is. But Anderson is able to combine all these elements and still have one, you can say coherent, you know, emotionally coherent film. And this kind of juggling of different tones and moods, he does it in a number of elements, both within music by Jon Brion, You know, there are musical cues that are more kind of Golden Age of Hollywood, you know, romantic music, and there is something that sounds more electronic, you know, and more modern. And it's also a testament to Adam Sandler's work, that he also has to juggle that shifting emotional registers in the film. Where something that's more kind of low key romantic to something that's more kind of frazzled, and anxious, you know, which the Safdie brothers uses to great effect in Uncut Gems.

[User] Yes, yeah.

[Assistant] This actually reminds me—and I might have said that in my Criterion Top Ten as well—this reminds me of The Apartment by Billy Wilder, and how very adroitly Billy Wilder also juggles between those discordant you know, tones in the film. There's a passage halfway through the film, Shirley MacLaine, you know, tries to commit suicide, and it's a very devastating, you know, moment. But, Billy Wilder, seamlessly introduces this kind of slapstick in a farcical energy into that scene. And so the end result is that the very seemingly incongruous, you know, playing off of these different emotional registers, ultimately makes the scene and the whole movie come off as melancholic. And that's the same, I think, emotional destination that Paul Thomas Anderson takes us to.

[User] I was talking to Isabel right before we started. And this is also one of my favorite movies, this is an instant five bagger, as I call it. But I have the Blu-ray of this from Criterion. And I also had, I think I bought The Apartment Blu-ray in the same purchase for both of these.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And I was working at a video store when I first saw this when this came out, I think in 2002. And I think this might be my first introduction to a kind of auteur experience watching this. This might have been my first PTA movie. And if you haven't kind of been exposed to all of his movies, this could be like a really eye opening film. You talked about in your in your Criterion about how it's intoxicating and very experimental. And this could have failed so largely with anyone else. But when you get a person with such skill, you just end up with something just completely magical and so rare, in my opinion, that you can get something like this, and it's so fun to go back and celebrate.

[Assistant] I have reservations. (Gemma laughs)

[User] Excuse me? Excuse me, Gemma?

[Assistant] Let's hear them!

[User] How many Hail Marys—(Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Gemma's also going to be in the confessional after this episode.

[User] I want to say this is a 2002 movie. If this was a 2021 movie, I think that there will be other people with reservations as well. Because I think that we've learned a lot about toxic masculinity and what it looks like. And I struggle with—I mean, everyone, everyone deserves love—I struggle with such a violent man being a romantic lead. I really, really struggle with it. And I recognize at the same time that this is a film from 2002. I recognize that he's a character with a lot of sisters who are straight up abusive towards him, you know, they use slurs that undermine his masculinity at every point. But I accept that PTA pulls it off, ultimately, in that scene with Philip Seymour Hoffman. Where all of that toxic masculinity is dialed back at the pivotal moment.

[Assistant] It's almost like it kind of has that, you know, when you put two magnets together. You know, they kind of like push each other apart, like that scene towards the end.

[User] Yeah—oh my god!

[Assistant] Where they're both trying to use that masculinity against each other and it's just, it doesn't compute what's happening in front of them and they both just go into their opposite directions.

[User] Yeah, yeah, sort of cancels out. And there's also an element with Emily Watson's character, and like, I adore her, I'll watch her in anything including this. But there is an element of—and I know it's a term we're not supposed to use anymore—but an element of manic pixieness. In that, we don't learn a lot about her. You know? We just learned that she really likes Adam Sandler's character. And that's apparently all we need to know. And again, you know, I forgive it for 2002. But I would say that for me, Paul Thomas Anderson peaked with the—Phantom Thread. (Slim laughs) I was about to say—(Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] The Phantom Menace. I was like wow, I didn't know PTA worked on the The Phantom Menace, wow! (Gemma laughs)

[User] Slim, how many Hail Marys do I have to say based on my Punch-Drunk Love reservations?

[Assistant] Ten Our Fathers, 30 Hail Marys I think before the next episode. (Gemma laughs) We were you know, crunching the numbers. I think Gemma also has another stat, but your most popular review is for A New Leaf.

[User] Wow!

[Assistant] 'Elaine May has a very particular—and very wry—comic sensibility. Hollywood doesn't deserve her.' So what is your elevator pitch for people that haven't checked out this film yet off the top of your head?

[User] A New Leaf, you know, I think the most talented auteurs are the ones that create a very particular world, you know, and milieu in terms of its like tone, and sensibility and have the audacity and that command to kind of just draw us and pull us into their world. And pay attention to them as they tell the story the way that they want to tell it. That's what I got from A New Leaf. It has a very, very distinct comic sensibility. And that's true about, you know, all the directors that we consider auteurs. In that when you're watching their film, you know you're watching a film by this director. And it could be through a combination of, you know, visual cues on the surface. And of course, it's not just that. But for example, with Wes Anderson, for instance. One frame, you know it's a Wes Anderson film. And it's the same way for instance, with Roy Andersson, who is also very visually oriented. And Aki Kaurismäki, who is a Scandinavian filmmaker as well. And, you know, like with Scorsese, for most of his films at least, there is kind of a thematic through line. That's also something that I experienced. It's like being drawn into the strange, idiosyncratic, comically virtuous world of Elaine May in A New Leaf.

[Assistant] Let's talk briefly about Filipino cinema, because I don't know if you've caught up with the news that on our Halfway 2021 25 Highest-Rated Films of this year so far. The number-one and number-two films are both Filipino films.

[User] Okay, number one is Cleaners. Yes!

[Assistant] Yes! By Glenn Barit. And number two is Ode to Nothing by Dwein Baltazar.

[User] Dwein Baltazar, yes.

[Assistant] Yeah! So what have you got to say about that as a fellow Filipino filmmaker?

[User] I think it's just amazing. I've seen Ode to Nothing and it's a remarkable, remarkable film. I have yet to see Cleaners. I hope it gets, you know, distribution Stateside.

[Assistant] You talked earlier about Philippines culture of being very Catholic and often quite morally repressed culture. What do you think that modern Filipino cinema is doing to bring about a new way of looking at Filipino life?

[User] What's very exciting about these two films, you know, rating as high as they have this year so far is that both these films kind of stray from the typical aesthetic of arthouse Philippine cinema, in that—and I hate to use this term, like poverty porn, for instance. But, you know, Cleaners, from what I've seen and read, I've read is that it's just, you know, formally very playful and quite dazzling. It's truly experimental in terms, I think it's just picking the color. And Ode to Nothing is also quite different. It's very restrained and austere, but there's also a comic sensibility running through it underneath and I would love to have, you know, more Filipino films that truly go against the grain of the established aesthetic of Philippine cinema, to get more audiences and to get seen more widely and recognized for that achievement that they have.

[Assistant] I think maybe to close out there's one last topic that I had to ask, which is something that might be coming down the line from you soon. Tropical Gothic, which is described as having surreal elements that riffs on Hitchcock's Vertigo, can you leave us with anything to whet our appetite for a future release?

[User] Yes, so Tropical Gothic is my fourth and most ambitious feature. I consider a Lingua Franca kind of a transitional film for me, in that it's still rooted in some kind of social realism. But it's also the film where I'm truly starting to find my voice and incorporating lyricism and poetry and sensuousness into my work. And with Tropical Gothic, I just take that to the extreme. (Gemma laughs) It's about a—it's set in the sixteenth century in the Philippines very early on during the Spanish colonial regime. It is an allegory about colonialism and imperialism. And so when the Spaniards arrived, they seize the property and the farmland from the natives. And so, Tropical Gothic is about this native Filipina priestess who pretends to be possessed by the spirit of her Spanish master's then bride in order to psychologically manipulate him into giving back her farmland.

[Assistant] My god.

[User] Woah! (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] And aside from being influenced by Hitchcock's Vertigo, it's like Jane Campion's The Piano but it's from the perspective of the Māori natives.

[User] I feel a Palme d'Or coming on. (Slim & Isabel laugh)

[Assistant] And you know, kind of my logline for it is that it's a vampire film without vampires.

[User] Oh my god.

[Assistant] Oh my god.

[User] It's already in my watchlist. So I'm sure it's in most people's watchlists on Letterboxd after listening.

[Assistant] Is it—sensual slapstick adjacent? (Slim & Isabel laugh)

[User] Oh my god. It's—surreal sensuousness. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Woo!

[User] Thanks so much for listening to The Letterboxd Show. And thanks to our guest this episode, Isabel Sandoval, for sharing her love of her favorite movies. Please read Isabel's essay for us on sensual cinema. It features the whole horny section of script from her latest feature Lingua Franca. The link for the essay is in the show notes.

[Assistant] Don't forget you can follow Gemma, Slim—that's me—and our Letterboxd HQ page on Letterboxd using the links in our episode notes. Thanks to composing dynamos, Moniker for the theme music 'Vampiros Dancoteque'. If you are enjoying the show and have guest ideas, be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. The Letterbox Show is a TAPEDECK Production.

[User] And that's it! We've edged right up to the end of the episode. (Slim laughs) We'll leave you to sort yourselves out.

[Assistant] Oh my.

[User] Hello and welcome to The Letterboxd Show, a podcast about movies from Letterboxd: the social network for film lovers. Each episode your hosts Gemma—that's me—and Slim are joined by a Letterboxd friend for a chat about their four favorite films according to their Letterboxd profile. We have links in the episode notes to the movies, lists and people we talked about so you can follow along and add those movies to your watchlists. Today, we're moving into Mayfield Place and talking about the neighbors with Jim Cummings, Letterboxd bestie, friend of filmmakers and a filmmaker himself!

[Assistant] Jim's new film The Beta Test is on the festival circuit right now and comes into theaters in the fall. His other movies Thunder Road and The Wolf of Snow Hollow are available On Demand and you should watch them. Jim's Letterboxd handle is jimmycthatsme and his four favorites are: Inside Out, Krisha, Children of Men and The 'Burbs.

[User] Oh my god.

[Assistant] And now… on with the show.

[User] Jim, we watched your four favorites this past week to prep for this exact moment, this conversation right now.

[Assistant] I'm honored.

[User] And I have one question: is Tom Hanks the greatest comedic actor of all time?

[Assistant] He's unbelievable. Especially in that film. In The 'Burbs, it is so funny to watch this guy struggle and have to put up with these insane neighbors and social dynamics. He feels like a camp counselor and I don't think he gets cast in these funny roles anymore but he's now one of the best. And then it becomes incredibly profound. He goes from being this kind of like goofy, you know, beer drinking neighbor guy to then being this profound, thoughtful person in the ending monologue. And to see that woven, it is like watching Chaplin or something like that. He is so, so good in this film.

[User] I am so excited to talk about The 'Burbs and I'm gonna suggest we save it to the end because otherwise we're in danger of—

[Assistant] I'm so sorry! I jumped the gun.

[User] No, no, no! (Gemma laughs) It's all Slim's fault, please!

[Assistant] We just talk about The 'Burbs for the next 40 minutes, and is like 'also, he likes Krisha, thank you so much for joining us!' (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[User] The one thing I do want to bring up too about Tom Hanks just because I think it's worth a refresher, that Tom Hanks has this you know history of an amazing comedic actor. My brother is older than I am. And I remember growing up seeing scenes from The Money Pit when I was like way too young to remember when I think like the bathtub falls through—

[Assistant] Falls through the floor!

[User] And he does that laugh scene. Nobody talks about that anymore!

[Assistant] It's amazing.

[User] What's happening in our society? We need to wake people up, Jim! (Jim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] Sheeple! Wake up!

[User] I just want to say that every time I'm thinking about my Letterboxd four favorites and, you know, we've already talked about mine on the first episode of the series. I think every now and then, I think I should just make it Big and the three best Indiana Jones films because it's the truth, right?

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Those are the movies I will come back to again and again. But Tom Hanks in Big is extraordinary. I know it's a mainstream film but he just… in the legacy in the canon of movies in which an adult is embodying a child or a child is embodying an adult. Tom Hanks is… he's the GOAT of that.

[Assistant] There's a good quote from Steve Martin when he was introducing Tom Hanks at the Oscars. He says 'my next guest had the easiest job in Hollywood, if you only make hits, Tom Hanks!' (Gemma & Slim laugh) It's like the best joke of like a guy who's only made great movies.

[User] Well, let's go through your favorites on Letterboxd and people can follow Jim's account in our episode notes. The first one on our list, it has it all. We're going to get emotional. It's Inside Out from Pixar. For those that have not seen it, you know, it follows the four characters Joy, Fear, Anger, Disgust, but then also Sadness, and they are living inside of the lead character's mind where they help advise her through everyday life and tries to keep things positive. This is a movie in my opinion that kind of gets a little bit to the wayside in the lore of Pixar. But what was your first impression seeing Inside Out when it first been released, Jim? (music from Inside Out fades in)

[Assistant] Oh, just crying my eyes out, unabashedly. It was awful. It was humiliating. I saw a drive in. And so everybody was coming out of their cars, sitting in their cars. This was in, you know, 2017? No, 2015, right when it came out. And there's the big scene with Bing Bong in it. And I had never seen something like that in an animated film, especially a comedy. And I cried my eyes out for like a week and a half, it was really brutal. And I had to see it a couple more times, just to really feel it. And I've seen that movie so many times now, I feel like it's part of me, where, at that point, in watching Pixar movies and watching movies in general, there was this dichotomy between something that was a really functioning drama that was very poignant. And then a really funny comedy. And it was very difficult to fuse the two of them together. And I saw it when it came out in 2015. And I realized that that was something that you could do, you can make something that is both poignant, and heartbreaking. And also very funny. And it doesn't make it worse, it makes it better. And I don't think that I would be where I am now, had I not seen that film. I love every little bit of it. And not just for those characters that are inside of the mind, but also Riley, the girl whose head they're in. I think it really is one of the most important films ever made. Because it is a lesson in how the brain and emotions work disguised as a kids movie. And what a great lesson to teach children that they are not in charge of their emotions, but they can be if they focus right. It is an unbelievable humanitarian effort that was put in by Pixar. And I love that movie so much.

[User] I think especially over the last year and a half, when the emphasis on mental health has only been greater, you know, more important, and in still not enough funding and still not enough resources. And everybody who is privileged enough to have access to a therapist has to talk to them just like this. Just like we are. It's interesting to see how that can help us in these ways.

[Assistant] It's so crazy to where I had never really had that intense or like potent of a cinema experience emotionally watching that film. Not just the music and Bing Bong saying 'sing louder' (Gemma gasps) and it's just so brutal. God dammit Gemma! (Slim laughs) It's so—I can't, I can't think about it without crying! And it's so, it's about love and self sacrifice, and helping people. And then she says, after Bing Bong disappears, she goes 'Goodbye Bing Bong!' and it's the dumbest name in history, and then you're laughing again. (Gemma laughs) And but no, it's a suicide in a Disney film. And it is shocking and beautiful and horrifying. And so wonderful. And the music is unbelievable. The characters are really great and the world is so well thought out. And it functions in the same way that The Matrix does, where the prerequisite for enjoying the film is having a brain and knowing that deja-vu and all of that stuff. It's like these great, you know, humanist ideas behind the world building. And Pete Docter was just at the top of his game, and he has a whole team apparently, from everything that I know about, that the best idea wins at Pixar, doesn't matter where it comes from. And I think that's, you know, I've brought that into my work. And it's not necessarily about who's leading the ship. It's about helping everybody to make the best story. It is unparalleled to me in kids films. I often forget that it's a kid's movie when people ask me my favorite kids movies are. It's unbelievable.

[User] Important question for the room. Have any amongst us head an imaginary friend?

[Assistant] I didn't. I didn't. My sister did and she would often talk to him when she was, until she's about three or four, but then that was it. Did you?

[User] No, I did not. I did not, no.

[Assistant] Oh my god!

[User] Nope.

[Assistant] You guys are missing out! Is this just a girl thing?

[User] I had comic books. So those were my imaginary friends. (Gemma laughs) And my action figures. Those occupied my time.

[Assistant] Which action figure was your favorite?

[User] Boy, you know what, some of my earliest memories of action figures, my brother grew up also a big Chuck Norris fan. Do you remember the old Chuck Norris action figures?

[Assistant] Oh my god! Yes!

[User] He had like this Corvette car that was legit af, it was amazing. So yeah, needless to say, I was doing some ninja Chuck Norris stuff growing up and I wanted his blue jeans and his cowboy boots and knew it didn't happen, you know, eventually as I got older, but you know.

[Assistant] For those of you who can't See slim, he's got a six-pack abs, (Slim laughs) and now he's wearing cowboy boots and jeans that he's kicking around. It's a bit dangerous next to the microphones. (Gemma laughs)

[User] And I'm in a Corvette right now, that's how I'm recording.

[Assistant] He is badass! (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[User] I love it!

[Assistant] So I loved going back to watching Inside Out. I agree with you. I rated this five stars. The Bing Bong conversation with Sadness is one of the greatest film moments in animation history, in my opinion. Multi-layered. And I think we have a bunch of stats. This is a 3.9 average on Letterboxd, has 2,000 fans. So there's 2,000 other people that have this in their four favorites on Letterboxd.

[User] Wow. I feel like some of the lists it's on are perfectly suitable. You'll be happy to know Jim that you're not the only person who ugly cries when you watch Inside Out, there's a whole list of movies called Ugly cry! that Inside Out sits right at the top of. Also on there, Stuart Little.

[Assistant] Stuart Little, sure.

[User] A Dog's Purpose. I mean, why not?

[Assistant] That was beautiful.

[User] Girl Interrupted. Yeah, that was really, really gorgeous. What else? Stepmom. Oh, don't even get me started. Susan Sarandon.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah, that's right!

[User] The Notebook. Of course. Up. See, Up for me, the opening fifteen, I just…

[Assistant] They punch you in the stomach in the opening. It's like at least in in Inside Out, they hold it to close to the end.

[User] Yeah! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] I do have a funny story about Up. I know this is a non sequitur. But I saw it in New Orleans for the first time in 3D. And it was a bunch of adults, buddies of mine just out of college, going to see the movie. And it was just like a quiet matinee screening. And at the end of the sequence, that is so heartbreaking in the opening, there was a girl who's about two rows ahead of me and she said at this volume, 'is she okay?' and everybody laughed in the theater. (Gemma & Slim & Jim laugh) And turned back to look at this poor girl. Yeah, it was horrifying.

[User] Everyone wearing 3d glasses turning around the look at you is probably a sight in and of itself. (Gemma & Jim laugh)

[Assistant] She was mortified.

[User] Before we move on to Krisha, I think we need to sort of take a sidestep and talk a little bit about what you do with your characters and Thunder Road and Wolf of Snow Hollow that sort of fits in, I guess to what Inside Out is also doing. Which we can see in I guess the real time within the films, your characters, working out how all these feelings fit together and can coexist with each other. And how it's sort of okay to show vulnerability. Specifically in Wolf of Snow Hollow in the hospital scene. You know that beautiful camera movement and the refocus to the bed behind you. And oh my god, just… like you're gonna get me started.

[Assistant] It's so brutal too. To do that, I mean, that's like, my favorite kind of cinema, is using the camera to help tell the story. And like that is, I just find to be relatively absent in modern film. And to do it emotionally, I'm lifting all of that from Pixar, of like, you can just move the camera slightly and help tell the story of somebody died in the interim of this person being in the room last time and then coming back. It's like, oh my god, like, this poor guy. And then the same thing with Thunder Road, the ending shot of Thunder Road of me at the ballet, where it's like, you see this guy go through hell for 80 minutes. And then you see him be okay. He like helped his daughter. He was a good parent for once. I don't know, I think there is this ongoing thing that with cinema audiences and cinephiles, that they just want the characters to be okay. And that everything is alright, they just need to be confirmed that everything's gonna be alright. And to do that for so long, for like 80 minutes of the movie to watch the story of Job as a comedy, and then have it pay off emotionally for the guy. It can be extremely cathartic, especially when it's a writer, actor and director doing it. Where it's like, in a Jackie Chan film where everything ends up okay, it's like oh, finally, Jackie's okay. You know, he got his ass kicked, but like he's okay now. And it can be a better, or like a more potent conversation between filmmakers and the audience that I really only discovered through making my movies.

[User] I read a quote from you. Because I was curious, your thought process where you were putting yourself in these shoes for these characters to go through these journeys. And you said 'the stuff I like to read is about humiliating these characters and putting them through these places and paces. And I don't know if I want to put other people through that.'

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I think that's a pretty fascinating answer because it makes sense to me as the viewer, your characters do go through the wringer. They make some really bad calls. (Slim laughs) And they eventually do, you know, come out in the end, you know, for the better.

[Assistant] I think also what comedy is to me, like watching someone just be constantly humiliated on accident for no fault of their own. And then that's also dramatic as well. Like Roberta Bernini has made a career out of these like kind of pathetic characters that the audience like, agh, I just love this guy! Like just be okay! This guy can't catch a break! And so you can kind of wield the audience's emotions and attention throughout the narrative, just by facial expressions, just by like stupid things that the guy does and you know, have him constantly fall on his face—sometimes actually falling on my face. But I love that! I love that I get to pretend to be Jackie Chan and Charlie Chaplin for a month when we're making a movie and it's the most fulfilling experience making myself look bad. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[User] One of the other things, we talked about Wolf of Snow Hollow last year, I didn't get to say this to you. But one of my other favorite things about it is, well, you cast Riki Lindhome, because she's, you know—I don't know if this is why you cast her—but for me, it was wonderful because she's in one of the best ukulele guitar musical comedy duo of all time, Garfunkel and Oates. And I am a ukulele lover. I just love those two so much. We talked a little bit about the, I guess, the sort of gender dynamics that you explore in Wolf of Snow Hollow in terms of ambition and outcomes for their careers. But it's more about while you're putting your character through all of these humiliating sort of leaps of emotion, she's just the straight woman, right? She's so straight and that straight to the point where she gets to be weathering and really wonderful moments when they're in the car, and he's like—