[User] Letterboxd; Title: Podcast transcripts; Tags: podcast, chat, movies ]

[Assistant] Hello and welcome to The Letterboxd Show a podcast about movies from Letterboxd: the social network for film lovers. Each episode host Gemma and Slim—that's me—will be joined by Letterboxd friends for discussion about their top four on Letterboxd, the four movies you choose as your favorite films on your Letterboxd profile. It's an opportunity to learn more about the community and add new movies to your watchlist. We'll have links in the episode notes to the movies, lists and profiles we talk about so you can follow along too.

[User] And we'll be having a revolving cast of friends on the show. Filmmakers, podcasters comedians and normal people just like me and you, Slim, who love to sit down and watch a movie and log it on letterboxd. This episode, to ease us in and introduce you to your new hosting duo, we are talking with each other! And in future episodes, you'll be hearing from us a lot. So we wanted to share how we connect with movies.

[Assistant] Gemma's top four includes: A Room With a View from 1985. She writes in her review, "it's a cast that just keeps on getting more perfect as their careers roll on."

[User] Slim's top four includes: Robocop from 1987. His review says, "turn this movie into a white powder so I can snort it." I love that. (Slim laughs) It's perfect. Now—on with the show.

[Assistant] We're here. Gemma, hello.

[User] Hello Slim!

[Assistant] The new season of The Letterboxd Show and the first thing that jumped into my mind was since we're gonna be talking about our top fours, were you feeling excitement or extreme dread knowing that you might have to watch Vanilla Sky ahead of this recording since it's in my top four?

[User] I am going to be deeply honest with you. I have an aversion to Tom Cruise at the best of times.

[Assistant] Can't believe this is the first and last episode of the new season. (Gemma laughs)

[User] That's all folks, thank you very much! (Slim laughs) And I think this is something that we've only just realized about each other and maybe this was a terrible idea. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Literally the first conversation we have on the show about our diametrically opposed views on the actor known as Tom Cruise.

[User] Let me just say I am team Nicole.

[Assistant] Okay. (Slim & Gemma laugh) I mean, that also just paints a view of this podcast for the listeners and maybe that's a positive.

[User] Maybe in the end. We've got team Nicole, we've got team Tom. This is gonna affect all guests we invite on for the future.

[Assistant] I was thinking before we dig in to kind of the actual content of the show, our top fours. Maybe we talk about how we got to this point together. You know, I've often said that Letterboxd is personally my favorite social media site. And it inspired a podcast about movies I do called 70mm. Also, like many people, I just like to veg out and watch movies whether that be in a movie theater, or on my phone. God forbid, I'll watch a movie on my phone. I don't care.

[User] The way Scorsese intended. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] That's right. And it'll be whatever movie that pops across my feed. It could be a bad horror movie, it could be a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie on Tubi, that I'll sit down and watch if it autoplays. But everyone has, you know, this ability to list their top four on Letterboxd and it's kind of a cool, unique insight into that person and how they connect with movies. But what's your vibe with the top four itself on Letterboxd? I think everyone has kind of their own opinion on it.

[User] Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about this from the perspective of, for example, the Letterboxd couple, the Mank couple. And you know, if you're looking for love and you think that Letterboxd might be one of the ways in which you could do that, I imagine that top four information could come more in handy then "good sense of humor, likes walks in the park" which feels very generic. Whereas, you know, saying "these are my four favorite movies" is a bit more information about a person and a bit more insight into their personality, potentially their generation. But also, I don't know, it's the most prominent part of your Letterboxd profile right? So whether it's that you just a pure, unadulterated cinema lover, or a next level cinephile who likes to show off. When you're setting up your profile, it's kind of the first thing we ask members to do when they're joining Letterboxd for the first time. Some people use it to show off their most recent favorite fours. And others list only one film in all four spots, which I kind of love. And I'm definitely on the hunt for one of those for an episode of this. And then there are the people who never changed theirs, which I'm totally guilty of.

[Assistant] You were saying how you might not have even changed yours since 2011.

[User] I have changed one film in my top four, I think, since I joined Letterboxd ten years ago.

[Assistant] Geeze.

[User] But, Paddington pull was too strong to no longer have a Paddington movie in my top four.

[Assistant] Paddington is maybe the most magnetic individual ever put on screen. Once you experience the magic of Paddington, there's no going back.

[User] There is no going back. And Paul King has cotton socks—or whatever fiber—in his socks. (Slim laughs) He has done the movie world and families everywhere and darkest bear from darkest Peru fans everywhere, the most magnificent favor by bringing Paddington to the screen.

[Assistant] God bless.

[User] Yeah, and I think—can we talk about Paddington yet? (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] We can get into Paddington. So we have ahead of this episode, you know, I think we both went back and we looked at each other's top four. That's kind of the idea of this show. We want to talk with people in the community, filmmakers, podcast hosts, comedians, about their top four. Learn more about what made them choose that. What kind of memories they have watching those films. The kind of feelings that you get when thinking about your top four. I think we kind of saw that a little bit or heard it a little bit when you were talking about yours. I think evokes a strong feeling when someone asks you "What's your top four?" You kind of like throw your head back, like "Oh my god. Yeah! Can't wait to think about this." So we went and kind of watched each other's top fours. And we talked a little bit about Tom. Tom Cruise, the Tom Cruise.

[User] We talked enough about Tom. (Slim laughs) We have talked enough.

[Assistant] We've already passed the Vanilla Sky segment already in my top four. But your top four, I hadn't seen three of the four before.

[User] And I hadn't seen—I thought I had seen Robocop out of your top four. But then I just realized that I was thinking about Judge Dredd and I'm just gonna own that right now. (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[Assistant] Very interesting combination of two films. Sylvester Stallone and Judge Dredd. My god. Didn't like Versace design the costumes and Judge Dredd?

[User] Well, if that's true, that is that is a genius crossover right there, for fashion and film.

[Assistant] it is. It is. Probably the best part about that movie. But that's neither here nor there.

[User] Also a nice New Zealand connection with our own Karl Urban taking on the role again more recently.

[Assistant] Oh, that's right. Yeah, I forgot about the new one.

[User] Yeah, so I guess should we tell our lovely listeners our top fours so they know what's coming in the conversation?

[Assistant] Let's hear it.

[User] Okay. So, Slim, your top four.

[Assistant] My top four—I need everyone to just get ready for this top four. This is as explanatory as you can get about me. My number one—which we don't have to get into anymore. Tom Cruise, Cameron Crowe's Vanilla Sky. There's a story behind that. Maybe for another day, we can get into that.

[User] Okay, I'm gonna let you tell that story. Just maybe in about 20 minutes. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Next on my list is Robocop. The OG Robocop film. Paul Verhoeven classic. Next on my list, Martin Scorsese's Casino.

[User] I'm so curious about why that Scorsese and I cannot wait to ask you.

[Assistant] A lot of fond memories. And my final one, which is a recent addition, this movie actually pushed out North by Northwest. Alfred Hitchcock got pushed out for Ninja III: The Domination. Sam Furstenberg, I think is the director of that movie. So maybe in a little bit, we'll get into that. But what's your top four?

[User] Well, I just wanted to say before we move on from North by Northwest. (Slim & Gemma laughs) That you've been on Letterboxd since 2015 according to your account.

[Assistant] Oh really? Rumors?

[User] According to rumours. According to data available to me at this time. And my favorite review of yours is from March 2015. And it is of Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest and it says "Carrie's pants height inspires me to this day." (Slim laughs) And as a fan of the high waisted pant—which will be discussed when we get to Strictly Ballroom, one of my top four. I just want to say, thank you.

[Assistant] He's a vision in that movie, everything he does in that movie, he's like a fashion icon in my opinion.

[User] It's extraordinary. I mean, you know, he's a mad man. He's a madman. (Slim laughs) He should be—he should be cutting a sharp figure in that cornfield. Okay, my top four. And I want—does this say a lot about me? I guess it sort of does. Yes? Yeah. Okay, we've got A Room With a View, the great Merchant Ivory 1980s period classic. From a novel by E.M. Forster. We have Strictly Ballroom, the very first feature film by Baz Luhrmann and his regular collaborators. Craig Pierce, his co-writer. Katherine Martin, the amazing CM, production designer. And the first of what they call the red curtain trilogy, which includes Romeo + Juliet and Moulin Rouge.

[Assistant] Oh! Didn't even know that.

[User] Strictly Ballroom, yes, deeply Australian. And then we have the great, the mighty Paddington. Paddington 1, I might add. I didn't even think about whether it was going to be Paddington 2, which is more highly rated, but we'll get to that. And then finally, Jane Campion's awesome, erotic thriller set in New York starring Meg Ryan—America's sweetheart—in a super sexy role (Slim laughs) as Frannie, and that is In the Cut.

[Assistant] Yeah, I didn't even know that movie existed until I heard you talking about on a previous Letterboxd Show episode in the past. Totally new to me.

[User] Yeah, see?

[Assistant] Let's see. So where should we start first?

[User] Let's start with A Room with a View. And I'll explain the reason that it's number one in the pack, it's because it's got a beautiful backdrop. So when I started at Letterboxd, and that, I was gonna say, the reason you're here is because you host the great 70mm pod but also Letterboxd is your favorite social network and you're a podcasting genius. And that's awesome. The reason I'm here is because I'm paid to be, it's my job. (Slim laughs) But more than that, I have known the lovely chaps who invented Letterboxd for quite a long time, and was one of the beta users back when they first launched and sent a message ad to the closest nearest and dearest and said "please join our thing we made and let us know how to improve it." And so the tight knit filmmaking community of New Zealand jumped on board to help them out. And when they started introducing the beautiful feature of having a backdrop on your profile for Patron and Pro level members—wait is that Pro level? Patron?

[Assistant] It's Patron.

[User] God, I don't even know our own roles! (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Just Patron.

[User] Patron members get a beautiful backdrop of the movie that is first in their queue. And I just wanted on my profile the backdrop of one of the best, most romantic kisses in big screen cinema history, which has between Lucy Honeychurch and George Emerson Jr. in that field, up that hill, in A Room with a View. Yeah, in fairness, it is definitely in my top five most viewed movies of all time. I watched it again this week in preparation for this. And probably hadn't actually watched it for a good ten years. But before that, it was definitely a film that I would rent very, very often from the video store. Whenever it would land on TV, I just dropped everything and watch it.

[Assistant] Did you read the book first?

[User] No, I never read the book first. I did eventually read the book in the nineties at some point and adored her closely at Hughes. Look, I'm just gonna explain what happens. For anyone who hasn't seen A Room with a View. Lucy Honeychurch—now this is the thing, this is a cast to absolutely die for.

[Assistant] Huge cast.

[User] Lucy Honeychurch who is played by the great Helena Bonham Carter and she's young in this. She's just a wee young and cute thing. She goes with her mother's cousin Charlotte Bartlett or 'poor, poor Charlotte' as she comes to be known in the film, who is played by the great—now Dame—Maggie Smith to Florence where they stay for weeks at a Pensione with a view of the Arno. Except Lucy and Poor Charlotte do not have a view of the Arno.


[User] Until George Emerson Sr.—the wonderful Denholm Elliott—and George Emerson Jr.—the incredibly handsome in 1985 Julian Sands—offer to swap rooms so Lucy and Charlotte can have a view. It's a trip to the countryside. George Emerson Jr. shouts "beauty!" from a tree. There's one of the dreamiest, most sudden kisses ever in the history of cinema. Everyone has sworn to secrecy—especially cousin shallots gossipy new friend, trashy novelist, Eleanor Lavish—who is played by Dame Judi Dench, who many movie viewers these days would know as the sort of the brilliant kindly Judi Dench, she's just this—yeah, she's popping off as a gossipy novelist. She's brilliant. And then we're back in England, where Lucy Honeychurch is suddenly engaged to Daniel Day Lewis! Duh. Duh. Duh.

[Assistant] When he appeared on screen, I didn't even know he was in this movie.

[User] I want to know what your reaction was.

[Assistant] I loved him in this. I mean, first of all, Helena Bonham Carter, I think this is the youngest I've ever seen her in a movie. I didn't realize how vast her catalog was. But man, Daniel Day Lewis.

[User] I know.

[Assistant] In another world in this role and more people should talk about this.

[User] It is wild. He plays Cecil Vyse, who is quite buttoned-up or buttoned-down—buttoned-up. (Slim laughs) And it's also got not one but two manic-pixie-dream boys! Not just Julian Sands but also the wonderful Freddy, Lucy Honeychurch's little brother.

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] You know, it's Dames Judi and Maggie absolutely going at it and they're just chewing it up. And then two brilliant, very different portraits of religious men, the very uptight vicar in Florence and in the wonderful Simon Callow who gets his kit off in a scene that surely by now I must have made it to your Man Ass list.

[Assistant] I did. I instantly once the skinny-dipping scene hit I was like oh my god, this is a whole lot of man ass that I need to add. It's not just man ass, it's man front as well. It's a long scene, I was thinking, this is a long scene. And then it went kind of like joke aspect of like, this is a great scene. And then I was like, holy crap. This is a long scene. And then it just like kept going. I was like, oh this is a great scene. (Slim laughs) It went long enough to the point where it circled back. It was a lot of fun. There's the three of them having fun in that, you know, that little spot of water and then them walking out and catching them. I thought it was hilarious.

[User] So brilliant. I feel like that Pride & Prejudice scene where Colin Firth rises out of the water and his white shirt that's, you know, sticking to his pecks gets a lot of airtime and the skinny dipping in the lake scene in A Room with a View does not end and ought to get more airtime. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Yeah, it's funny, I posted a photo on my Instagram of Daniel Day Lewis. And I got a bunch of people were like A Room with a View? You watching A Room with a View right now? And I had never seen this movie before. But it just like brought out so many of my friends that were like, "Oh my god, I can't wait to rewatch this. It's been so long since I've seen it myself." So really opened up something this viewing.

[User] I'm delighted to have brought it to you. And I would say that in the great Merchant Ivory productions. It's the one—it's the most fun one. I mean, Maurice is a classic in terms of portrayal of queer love in extremely repressed English times. Howards End is just dreary. It's just dreary. I'm not I'm not a fan. It doesn't matter that it's the absolute bomb cast of Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson. I don't care. I watched it once. I'll never see it again. But A Room with a View it's just got all the things in it. It's got this killer cast that only gets better. You know, the more the more we know about what they've gone on to do. But it's ridiculous and delightful and endlessly quotable. And also—dare I say it—horny.

[Assistant] I'm glad I watched it and it was a lot of fun.

[User] I'm glad you watched it too.

[Assistant] Which one of mine should we talk about? My top four, are we ready for this? This is a big shift here. We're going from A Room with a View to—well, you just got finished Casino. Maybe we should jump into Casino. It's fresh in your mind.

[User] Yeah. And I feel like it exists in a similarly heightened world? (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] Very heightened, very heightened. More drugs and I think money flowing around. Casino, Martin Scorsese, Robert De Niro. I was trying to think back, I actually used to work in a video store growing up, I used to work in a West Coast Video chain. And it was the greatest job of all time. Working in a video store. there's literally nothing better, except for the pay. The pay was terrible. But you get to pretty much watch movies all day, you get to talk movies all day. It's the dream.

[User] I have a question.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] I never worked in a video store. I did however, spend a lot of time in video stores as a teenager with my friends. And when a group of friends will come in on a Friday, could you just tell that they were gonna walk around around around for half an hour and then just pick the same movie again as they did the last Friday and the last Friday and the last Friday? (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] What was worse is that we could probably predict when someone had a late fee. Late fees are like a totally foreign concept now where people didn't bring a movie back. And they had maybe like $70 in late fees on their account. Like just the idea of not returning a movie and being charged almost $100 because it was late is just such a crazy idea to sell out now.

[User] Now it is, yeah.

[Assistant] But that was a fun experience. And Casino was one of the movies that I think I took home one night, and I watched for the first time and it might have been probably my earliest introduction to Scorsese at that time. So this was maybe before GoodFellas. So a lot of people—a lot of people like me, a lot of dudes like me—hold GoodFellas up into really crazy high esteem, but Casino is the one that I really love.


[User] I loved De Niro's character in this movie. I loved how Scorsese shot the casino itself. I love the kind of lighting that they pulled off in this movie. And the camera movements he has in this film, you know, around De Niro and the cast of characters are just so—I think in my Letterboxd review, I just, I said that he was just straight flexing on us for two hours plus. So I love that kind of camera work and the flexing that Marty did in this movie. Just the cast of characters with Joe Pesci as well. You know, there's so many people in this movie that I would probably just want to just watch for hours of. just to see what is going on in their crazy effed up life. Because everyone in this movie is just effed up, from drugs or love, or money. There's just so many people that are so screwed up and it's so entertaining to watch. Don Rickles is probably the less screwed up person in the entire movie. And he's amazing. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Don Rickles, Don Rickles!

[User] Yeah, very quiet, sustained role in this movie. But this movie just always stands out to me as one of the most rewatchable movies that I love no matter what. It gives me the most enjoyment. And when I talk about like five star movies on Letterboxd, these are movies that I just have the best time watching. Maybe I'll give five stars to movies that are really not well made or not, you know, anywhere near someone's top ten or top 100. But if I have a really fun time watching it, I'll give that a five bagger immediately.

[Assistant] Well, I was gonna say Ninja III: The Domination? (Slim laughs) Clearly not in your top four because it's in the Letterboxd top 250 of all time.

[User] No, that movie is maybe in the bottom 250 of all time on Letterboxd, I'm not sure. But I had so much fun watching Ninja III: The Domination. (Slim & Gemma laugh) Which is a crazy sentence probably for most people to hear out loud.

[Assistant] It is. I mean, yeah, let's pivot slightly to that. And we'll come back to Casino because I want to I want to declare that it's the one film of your top four that I didn't watch because I couldn't find a legal version of it. (Slim laughs) And in my other life, I make movies and so I'm a little bit of a nerd about that stuff.

[User] Yeah, that is one of the things too. It's funny, I was having a conversation with I think Matthew, co-founder of Letterboxd, I was recommending a movie at some point in the past and me forgetting that US streaming capabilities is just very different outside of the US. So I think this was on Tubi, which is you know, like a free movie streaming service in the States. I'm not sure if it's international availability, but there's just so many movies like that, like American Ninja is a franchise that's on Tubi. Most of Chuck Norris' movies are on Tubi, and Steven Seagal. So that paints a picture. So a friend of mine, Chuck Foresman, the cartoonist behind the end of The End of the F


[User] That actually sounds like totally my jam and I will commit to finding a copy to watch. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I will mail you a Blu-ray of Ninja III if I have to. (Gemma laughs)

[User] I would love that. We do have two remaining videos doors in this country that are pretty good. (Slim laughs) I just love the slag. "He's the ultimate killer. She's the perfect weapon."

[Assistant] You can't go wrong, is what we're saying people. You got to check out Ninja III if you can. And honestly, I think I probably only found the availability this movie just because of Letterboxd. I use that feature to find out where movies are streaming, like every day. I mean I have the ability to kind of like put on a movie during the day. While I'm answering emails, I'll have it in the background. So I see what's available.

[User] The way Scorsese intended. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] If Scorsese knew how I watched most movies, he would flip out. But that was a roundabout way of saying Casino and Ninja III could not be more different, but I love them all the same. So those are those are two of my top four.

[User] I did just want to say about Casino that—I'm big Scorsese fan, massive, how can you not be? But I just got to be honest and say GoodFellas and Casino, haven't watched them. And it's mainly for a really stupid dumb reason, which is I am sick of dudes talking about GoodFellas and Casino and how I have to watch them! (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] Yeah, it's like the Scarface poster in, you know, people's bedrooms. Like okay, we get it, you like Scarface. Everyone loves Scarface. (Gemma laughs) But I totally get it. Yeah.

[User] Yeah, maybe but yeah, congratulations, Slim. You are the dude who made me watch Casino. (Slim laughs) There was something in Casino that linked directly to Strictly Ballroom, Slim. And I don't know if you've figured out what it is.

[Assistant] No, I—

[User] I have the screenshot receipts.

[Assistant] Geeze. There's no cocaine in Strictly Ballroom that I'm aware of. So that's out the window. What was it?

[User] There is a sparkly gold dress that Sharon Stone wears.

[Assistant] Ohhh!

[User] In a really beautiful scene where he's getting his award. He's getting his membership of the country club. And in Strictly Ballroom, there is a glittering sequined gold pantsuit that Scott Hastings wears when he does his own dance steps his way, which loses him his dance partner at the beginning of the film. And I just feel those two outfits together, I feel are like—

[Assistant] Serendipitous. It was meant to be these two movies together in the same episode. Do you remember the first time you ever saw Strictly Ballroom?

[User] I wish I did. It would have been in a cinema. And it would have been with a particular group of friends when I was actually a student studying, studying film and television production. And we would have gone back to see it again that same weekend. So I don't remember the first time, because it blurs into a week where I went back probably three times to see it in the cinema.

[Assistant] Wow. What makes Strictly Ballroom fit into your top four?

[User] Well, look Slim, first of all, have you eaten? (Slim laughs) Because if you haven't, there's some chops in the fridge. How's the bago hago? I think what I love about it, apart from the fact that it's the most quotable and best underdog sports film of all time involving ballroom dancing. It really was the first film by this group of empresarios who have gone on to make such an impact on cinema since. Written by Craig Pierce and Baz Luhrmann who were schoolmates—not schoolmates, but like studied at NIDA together, which is the National Institute for Dramatic Arts in Australia. Production designed by Katherine Martin, who has designed all of Baz Luhrmann's films and also has babies with him. Edited by Jill Bilcock, who has the absolute goat editor of Australia's film history. So much so that she's one of the few editors to have a documentary made about her, which is really cool.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] They went on to make Romeo + Juliet, they went on to make Moulin Rouge, The Great Gatsby, and they're currently in post production on Elvis. And so Strictly Ballroom grew out of student play that they put together in 1984. And they staged it in a few places throughout the eighties on stage, and then they found a film producer who was willing to take it to the screen. And what I love about that is as someone who has been sort of involved in all parts of the arts is the idea that, you know, on the one hand, anyone listening to this who wants to make a movie, you often keep getting told "Just pick up a camera and do it! You can do it, just pick up a camera and do it!" On the other hand, there are ideas that takes such a long time to bring to the screen. But when they brought to the screen it said exactly the right time. So if they tried to do Strictly Ballroom as a film in the eighties—which was a time when, especially in the Antipodes, in New Zealand and Australia were producing some quite sort of hardcore films. You know, like some dark, toxic masculinity takes on, you know, men alone type stuff. But the early nineties, this is a 1992 release, was sort of exactly when you had, you know, gay pride taking off in Sydney. When the soundtrack for this film became a moment and nightclubs across Australia. (Love is in the Air by John Paul Young fades in) The beautiful Love is in the Air—which is the final song for the final big ballroom sequence—was played pretty much in every queer nightclub across New Zealand and Australia as soon as this film came out. There's something about the timing that I love it about it. And it's sort of strange to look at it now and think it was hard for those people to find the money that they needed that they put together a $5 million budget and it got whittled down to 3.3. They eventually managed to make it on that pittance. And it's made $80 million worldwide. I just love that. Anyway.

[Assistant] Yeah, I'd never seen this before. I don't even know if I heard the title before. This is another one of those movies that I've never seen, but in the Discord that we have for 70mm, we call it the VHS Village. It's just a community where we talks about movies. I posted my review in there and a bunch of people were like, "Oh my god, you watch Strictly Ballroom? You know, I can't believe it. Are we having a watch party for Strictly Ballroom this week in Discord?" It was like ignited that everyone had this like as one of their favorite movies. And what struck me about this movie, it's hilarious. It felt like a Waiting for Guffman esque subtle comedy about these quirky characters, just like you said. Which I was not expecting. You know, I had just rewatched Romeo + Juliet, I think this past year. So that was the kind of Baz Luhrmann in my mind. So when the funny moments in this movie were coming out, I was like oh, what's going on here? I was not expecting this. But it was a total delight. I think I gave this five stars on Letterboxd. I had an amazing time.

[User] Amazing time! It's so good to hear. Because it is funny. It's so funny. And it's funny because it's true. You know, the best comedy sort of comes from truth. And so, you know, one of my favorite quotes that I picked up this time around was when Scott Hastings' mother, Shirley Hastings, the great Pat Thompson, who tragically died a month before this film premiered at Cannes.

[Assistant] Oh geeze.

[User] So not only a huge loss for their family at Strictly Ballroom, but you know, this was a career making role. And then she's gone. But there's a moment where she cries into the arms of Liz, who's, you know, another judge and the ballroom dancing scene. (Gemma cries) "He's my only son!" And it's hard to describe why that is such an emotional and extremely comical piece of dialogue. But you know, the idea that she doesn't have another son who she can train up from the age of six to win the Pan Pacifics. (Slim & Gemma laugh) And if Scott doesn't pull them together, this is the end of her career. This is the end of her dance studio. Yeah, just love that. "He's my only son!" It's so Australian.

[Assistant] Is there any way better to segue into Robocop then from Strictly Ballroom, into the ultimate action adventure from the eighties? (Slim laughs) Robocop is in my top four. I think this was probably, you know, on local television in Philadelphia at the time. You know, PHL-17 was a station that would play, you know, edited action movies. Robocop, obviously eighties dystopian future where the large corporations of our day have taken over the police department, just about everything. So we're not too far away from that today, depending on who you ask. But Peter Weller is the titular Robocop, and he kind of has to battle to find himself. (music from Robocop fades in) And this is just one of those movies I think I saw when I was younger, way too young, way too violent. Where, when I saw it as a kid, I thought it was just this really fun action movie—violence. I saw a robot cop, you know, just like shooting bad guys, driving a car. I was like, oh my god, this is really cool. And then as an adult, you watch it again. And I'm starting to kind of like, peel back layers of the kind of absurdity of the film. About how insane it is, about how this corporation owns these places. And we're kind of rooting for this police officer cyborg. And then you watch it a few more times, and I just feel like this is a movie that had no right to be a success whatsoever. This could have easily been maybe the end of Verhoeven's career at this point. You know, you're gambling in 1987, turning this guy into a cyborg and fighting crime. And it ends up being this really subversive classic that is so fun—at least for me—to rewatch and enjoy time after time. And he went on to do it a few more times. He did Total Recall, he had Starship Troopers. And he's got this amazing catalog after that.

[User] And he's got a film at Cannes this year.

[Assistant] And that movie looks amazing too!

[User] It look incredible, he's still going.

[Assistant] I also just watched Basic Instinct for the second time in a very long time this past year, which I thought was amazing.

[User] I have not seen it since my first time.

[Assistant] Still holds up. Also is other movie, Elle. Have you seen Elle? Holy moly.

[User] I have not seen Elle. When it comes to Verhoeven, I am basically a Showgirls, girl. I don't know why. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Showgirls was the reason why I created the Man Ass list in the first place on Letterboxd. Kyle McLachlan is in Showgirls, and what I presume is a stunt double—like a stunt ass—steps across the screen, and it is probably one of the most supple assets I have ever seen in a movie! (Slim laughs) I was like, stunned. I was like, Holy God, that is an ass! And I had to make a Letterboxd list right away. I was like, I need a list of the best man asses in movies. But it's literally, it's Showgirls and everything else in my opinion. Do you remember that ass? Do you remember the scene I'm talking about?

[User] I do, yes, we've talked about this before. (Slim laughs) I mean, who can not remember that ass? Who can not remember that ass? Since we're talking about ass in Verhoeven films, can we talk about boobs in Verhoeven films?

[Assistant] Let do it. Let's get into it.

[User] Because I had a really interesting reaction to Robocop—and this was my first, as I said, I honestly thought that it was, you know, in the Judge Dredd universe and it turns out how wrong I was. How wrong. And of course, I have seen many memes and gifs involving the Robocops themselves. But had never watched the film from front to end. And aside from all of the reasons you love it—all of which I agree with—I had a really interesting reaction to Officer Lewis and the portrayal of women in this movie. Because I realized as I was watching that my sort of Hollywood expectations as a movie viewer—I was expecting certain things to happen that didn't. I was expecting—and don't get me wrong, Lewis and Murphy have great chemistry, which is part and parcel of buddy cops, you know, cop partners. You have to have good chemistry as your work husband and your work wife, right? But because of the ways in which Hollywood has written these films for decades, I was expecting them to get together. I was expecting in an Verhoeven movie to see a lot of unnecessary breasts. Like even in that beautiful memory of his wife coming toward them in the bedroom and saying, "I've got to tell you something!" When we finally get to see that memory play out in full, I was expecting you to just open her gown and there are the boobs. Something about Verhoeven, something about the eighties, something about cop movies. I was just fully expecting unnecessary, gratuitous, random boobage. Instead, we get that incredible scene near the beginning of the film, where the cops are in a multi-gender, locker room. So they're all in there, we see some man ass in the showers, all getting dressed. And we see officer Lewis and other officers just getting their clothes off and suiting up, putting on their bulletproof vests. And it is not sexual. And it is super straightforward. And it is completely functional and part of the cop work. And it is also very much of the Verhoeven universe, right?

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah.

[User] It's like in the havens world, all cops regardless of gender, in the same changing room, putting on their bulletproof vests. And I loved it! I just deeply had a moment of deep appreciation for the Verhoeven's very European vibe around the body and its functionality in this scenario.

[Assistant] It's funny you say that. I have like a giant making of hardcover for Robocop and it goes into detail. I think this is probably I'd like my first introduction to that—like you said, the European sensibility. I think for a Verhoeven is Dutch and is very, you know, comfortable in nudity. And this is probably, growing up, this is my first introduction to that. Like seeing kind of unisex locker rooms. You know, as a kid, you're like, whoa, what is going on here? This doesn't make any sense! And it happens again in Starship Troopers. And it's just normal. It's like, the human body is normal. And, you know, it's a part of life. And it's kind of like an American thing, where we've kind of vilified the nipple, or you know, any nudity of the sort. And this is 1987. And he kind of kept that up in some of his other science fiction films and it's just one of those things.

[User] Yeah, I love it. It's just one of those things. It's just so great to see the breast non sexualized.

[Assistant] Also, Nancy Allen in this movie is incredible!

[User] Ah, I love her!

[Assistant] Her character is unbelievable. Unfortunately, it kind of—she doesn't get to be the amazing Lewis that she is in this movie. And I think it kind of goes off of a little bit of a cliff slowly until Three. But man, the potential was there for her to just to continue to be kind of the ultimate cop in this franchise. So I really do appreciate her in this and what we did get in Robocop One.

[User] Oh, yeah. I love it. It's time to just talk for a few minutes about Paddington, I think.

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Because this is—ah, I mean, one of my great loves, when it comes to movies is when animation and real life meet and marry into a perfect union. It's a long time since I've seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but I remember loving it as a kid when I first saw it. Didn't bother what the new Tom and Jerry. And love, big fan of Mary Poppins, and I would put Paddington and the same camp. Even though he's rendered as a realistic bear. He's still, you know, some kind of animation in there. And it's just so you know, I would approach a movie like Paddington first and foremost, with the wonder of the production of the other visual effects geniuses and the excellent cast who managed to pull off this thing happening where Paddington's not there! He's not there! But in the movie, he's there, and he's perfect. And we love him. And he's amazing. Anyway, that just sounds super nerdy. But that's my, you know, the first way I come to it is through just deep appreciation for the craftspeople behind bringing something so delightful and so joyous to life.


[User] You mentioned it earlier with Paddington and the kind of like heart of this movie. I feel like Paddington really shocked a lot of people when this movie came out. You know, you're making a live action esque Paddington movie. You know, that could just be kind of like an all ages, family movie. But man, these movies have connected with so many adults, myself included. That, oh my god, it's just so fun to go back and watch these movies. They're just so pure!

[Assistant] I had a really fun time on Letterboxd actually as Paddington rolled out across the world because what happened was, it came out in the UK in 2014, so late 2014 it came out. I had heard the rumors that it was good. I started noticing our UK based members just going off about Paddington. And to put it in context, Paddington as a as a character in stories created by Michael Bond who was still alive in his nineties at the time that they were making the first film and he's since passed on. But there's a beautiful photo of Michael Bond visiting Paul King on the set of the first Paddington film. And if you had grown up with Paddington, the original animation at all—so after after the books, there was the TV series made which has stop motion animation but of paper cutout characters of Paddington and the brown family. And it's so simple. It's so pure, and so delightful, and it's gorgeous theme music. And making something that's incredibly slick and, you kno, incredibly well CGI. Paul King and his team have kicked the hat of not only the character the in the books from Michael Bond, but the heart of that original TV series in there. You know, including bringing in some of that paper cutout animation for certain parts of the story in both films. So it starts off being authentic. You know? It starts off from a place of authentic love for all of the Paddington properties that have come before. And that is, I think, what has made it so successful from the start. And then as you said, it's become this thing that the adults love. And I recognize that there's a couple of tricks to that. And one is, it's dark enough for adults. Like shit gets pretty dark. When Nicole Kidman's character starts ruffing Paddington and laying him out for the dissection so that she can display him in a glass case in her museum so that she can get back into the society that her father was so roundly rejected from, because he refused to collect these beers who were wonderful and could talk and darkest Peru. I think that's the heart of the story, right? Like that stuff is dark. She's got the taxi driver hanging up by his feet under a bridge so she can get information out of him. She is—she is a good baddie. I will say that.

[User] I mean, you said you were team Nicole Kidman earlier to start the show. She's one of the worst villains in the history of cinema. (Gemma laughs) I feel sick.

[Assistant] Yeah, because that's the thing, like it is Nicole Kidman! I just think she's perfect! (Slim laughs) I think she's perfect. I think she's perfect because as a baddie. I think she's perfect as a goodie. And by the way, my Nicole Kidman love, you know, wasn't always there, but it's grown. It's grown.

[User] What kicked off the Nicole resurgence for you?

[Assistant] Hmm. I think the divorce.

[User] Mmm. Her freedom.

[Assistant] Yeah, her freedom. And that photo, that iconic photo.

[User] Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[Assistant] Oh her just fists, arms in the air, divorced from La Cruise. (Slim laughs) It's exciting.

[User] Should we segue into Vanilla Sky as shortly as we possibly can? That's my final top four. We already made our feelings known on the star of this movie. But at the time, I think that this came out, I saw this in theaters. A lot of these movies, I can kind of trace back to my days at West Coast Video. It was around the time where the store had just started converting to DVD. So they had like two different sections of VHS and DVD and they eventually combined them. So I think my first week might have been when this movie had come out. And so it was in early 2000, 2001. And I saw it in theaters and I was a T Cruise fan. Tom C—we don't have to say his full name. And I saw us in theaters at probably after Jerry Maguire. And I just remember sitting in a theater thinking that it was such a gamble of a movie, a strange movie, for the height of his kind of career at that time. To just make this kind of weird psychological drama, where for half the movie his face was just like mutilated. (Slim laughs) So like at the end of the movie, I just thought it was so risky and—to use the word brave—on Cameron Crowe's part to take this Spanish film and make an English version of it, starring Tom Cruise. It kind of blew me away when I first saw it. And it's just always remained in my mind as one of the most enjoyable movies that I can watch. Due in part because it's just such a strange departure in that timeframe for that actor at that time.

[Assistant] And for the director, I guess too.

[User] I don't love Cameron Crowe now. I don't think he ever really captured what he had done before this. You know, Almost Famous, Say Anything..., Jerry Maguire, Vanilla Sky and then stuff after that. I think he did like Elizabethtown with Orlando Bloom. So the stuff he did after that never really—at least in my mind or in the mainstream—really caught up. I know he did a Pearl Jam documentary. But yeah, I love Jerry Maguire. I would love to sit down and just watch Jerry Maguire for no reason. Those are just the movies that—I'll give high ratings to movies that just make me feel sad or happy and just know that it's just pulling strings on purpose to make those emotions come out. I'll rewatch those movies any day of the week. Jerry Maguire is one of those. Did you watch it?

[Assistant] I did watch Vanilla Sky. I now no longer need to watch it again. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[User] When you logged it on Letterboxd, Proto and Danny—the co-hosts of 70mm, the movie podcast I do—we have a Discord DM. And I screenshotted your Recently From Friends—I think it just had the "watched". It had no rating, had no like. I just posted it to them in our DM and I was like "It's over." (Slim & Gemma laugh) But I appreciate you making the college try. I'm fully aware that I'm in the minority. I think for people that love movies—I don't consider myself like a cinephile. I, you know, I'm just like a film lover. I love to watch and sit and watch them. I'm fully aware that a lot of people do not appreciate him in the way that I do. So it's no insult to me. But I'm just so glad that you made the college try.

[Assistant] I want to say a few things. I want to say from a plot perspective, I'm not the biggest fan of puzzle movies. Just not a big fan of puzzle movies. And when I realized this was one of them, I was like, ugh, now it's even worse. (Slim laughs) I give many points to all of the players who are going hard in this in this puzzle world of Tom Cruise's character. Kurt Russell.


[User] Great hair. Interesting, amazing performance. Jason Lee, I feel like has sort of doofiness was kind of the key to the whole thing. And I saw one commentary on this film that suggested that the whole thing was just a really average novel written by Jason Lee. I love all that. I do love kind of reading into the theories that come out about puzzle movies. And I know that the marketing and of course, the brief romance between Penelope Cruz and Tom Cruise was what kind of put this on the screen. And I guess that's partly why I didn't watch it the first time around. But I hadn't realized that Cameron Diaz gave quite so much in this film.

[Assistant] She did.

[User] And I really, really appreciated that. So that's what I have to say about Vanilla Sky. And also an observation about your top four. It's that Vanilla Sky and Robocop kind of exist as unusual mirrors of each other. And that you have one man whose body has been taken in disfigured by a giant corporation to do their bidding. And you have another man who has chosen to take his disfigured body to a corporation for his own ince. And I appreciated the mirrored double feature-ness of that experience this week. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I appreciate you making that connection. And bringing that to the positive side of the table. I've never seen the kind of work that went into putting that together. There's one more movie that we haven't talked about yet. It's your final movie in your top four. In the Cut.

[User] Yeah, speaking of New York. Speaking of weird, erotic dramas in New York.

[Assistant] You what's funny? There's another section of Letterboxd that we were going to dig into. Rated higher than average, there's a section for your stats page, where you can see for yourself or for others, what movies you've rated higher than the average Letterboxd user.

[User] And you can also see what movies you've rated lower than the Letterboxd average, I think.

[Assistant] Yes, yes!

[User] This is a new feature we brought in only a couple of months ago, because it's so much fun. And also, like, there's a sense that there's the average and you know, you look at the average, and a lot of people make sort of pop quiz decisions on whether they're going to watch something based on "oh, if it's only a three, I think I'm not going to waste my time on things that are less than a five." Whereas the way I use Letterboxd quite often is I hear about a film that I know I'd personally be interested in. I look at the average rating and think, well, hmm, that can't be right. So then I go to the people I follow whose opinions I have learned to appreciate over time, including yours about—everything except Vanilla Sky. (Slim laughs) And then I look at what they're rating it and that gives me my answer. But yes, you're right. So we've got this section called rated higher than average, where you can find out what you rate higher than the average. And In the Cut is most definitely is one of mine. But this leads me to my favorite story about In the Cut that I love telling as it relates to Letterboxd. Which is, In the Cut's average rating generally on Letterboxd is higher than any other movie aggregation site because Letterboxd users have taste. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] I mean, there's probably people that are listening that are like me that have no idea what this movie is. But this is a Meg Ryan feature with Mark Ruffalo, erotic, thriller. I'd never heard of it before.

[User] I know. It's a Meg Ryan, Mark Ruffalo erotic thriller. Jane Campion, obviously great New Zealand director, the only woman to win a Palm d'Or on her own, so far. Which has been insane. She made the brilliant series Top of the Lake. She's worked with the wonderful Nicole Kidman several times. And a woman is murdered in Meg Ryan's neighborhood. And so the cops come interviewing the neighbors to see if they heard anything or saw anything. And this brings a detective played by an extremely young and handsome Mark Ruffalo into Frannie's life. And then more things happen, more women are murdered and dismembered. And meanwhile, Meg—Frannie—is wondering whether Mark Ruffalo might have had something to do with those murders, but at the same time as becoming increasingly attracted to him, and he is offering himself to her in whatever way she would like to take him. And that beautiful steamy scene in the bar where he just says to her, "I can be whatever you want."


[User] I was obsessed with Nora Ephron's Sleepless in Seattle. If I'd had Letterboxd in 1993, I probably would have loved that film once a week. I may have even once written some erotic fanfiction about it, long before fanfiction was a thing. I loved that film! I love the corniness of it! I love the impossible Empire State Building meeting-ness of it I love the whole Meg Ryan, Tom Hanks thing through the nineties. But by 2003 I guess I'd had a decade of being a third wave feminist watching movies that just trash on women's bodies and use women's bodies as the means towards other people having a plot. And what, you know, we had Single White Female, we had, you know, just murder mysteries that were just dead women's bodies everywhere. And what I loved about In the Cut—let's be honest, apart from the extremely steamy sessions between Ruffalo and Ryan—is that there's a thing about being a woman watching movies that involve women's bodies being murdered and dismembered and cruel psychopathic killers on the loose is, is that there's sort of no respect from that. And In the Cut—and Jane Campion generally does this amazing and sort of indescribable thing where she allows a sexual life and an interior life for a female character to exist in that world. That world is not going away from movies. It's, you know, it's endlessly an interesting world to explore for directors. But to then bring in the reality that even while there are murders going on in your neighborhood, you might also still want to have sex. (Slim laughs) It was just like a miracle! It was—yeah, it's hard to explain how it felt at the time, it felt miraculous. It felt like ah, another movie about this stuff and also, it's okay to have sex!

[Assistant] Yeah, as I was watching it, I thought, the miraculous aspect of it, that I felt like it happened in such a window where it couldn't have happened ten years before and might not have been able to happen ten years after.

[User] And it didn't even really happen at the time, because at the time, the reviewers bombed it. It got a Metacritic F score. And basically, nobody could accept Meg Ryan in a role like this.

[Assistant] Hmm. Do you know anyone else with this in their top four?

[User] Oh, question. Personally, no. So if you want to know who else has a film and the top four, you go to the Films page on Letterboxd, you go to their little ratings histogram, and then it will say how many fans it has. And In the Cut has (Gemma sighs) a very modest and frankly, you know, distressing 42 fans.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] Which means 42 people on Letterboxd have this film in their top four.

[Assistant] You know how many people have Vanilla Sky in their top four? 524—

[User] Too many. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] But I think this conversation and the discussion of how we use our top fours and how what movies we place in there, that's what I'm excited about to have with other people. Because, you know, this movie I never probably would have watched if I didn't hear about it from you and your reasoning behind it in your top four. So like I said earlier, I'm grateful that we've got to talk about it, because otherwise I never would have experienced a movie like this, let alone know it exists.

[User] Yeah, and I definitely, definitely would not have watched Vanilla Sky if it wasn't for this.

[Assistant] Robocop is I think the big win for us I think this week, that you got to watch Robocop.

[User] Yeah, Robocop is a big win. And finally ticking Casino off the off the Scorsese list. I'm grateful for that. I feel like in terms of lush costumes on screen this week between Strictly Ballroom and Casino, my eyes have had a really good time. And I'm really looking forward to how this proceeds in the in the coming weeks and months in terms of other people's top fours. Because I just know—you know, we've built a kind of master list of four we want to hit up. And we're going to be swerving from anime, to pre-code classics, to sixties, you know, detective Noir. It's gonna go all over the place. And I'm really excited because one of the things I struggle with is the Editor in Chief of Letterboxd is my viewing is generally focused on new releases. On things that are coming out, that are coming up, that I need to be across in order to know how to approach editorially. And so then when I dive into some of the collections that you see Letterboxd members completing—like our top 250, or Edgar Wright's, you know, 100 of his favorite comedies or whatever. I just don't know where to start. I feel like I'm never going to be able to be completest in terms of filmographies or collections like that, because there's too much else on my plate as part of the day job at Letterboxd. And so what's so exciting about this top four concept is it's just going to take us everywhere, and I couldn't be more delighted to be doing it with you.

[Assistant] Oh man, and just think the excitement we'll have together after you watch Ninja III: The Domination. (Slim laughs)

[User] I can't wait!

[Assistant] Thanks so much for listening to this first episode and the brand new season of The Letterboxd Show. You can follow me, Gemma and Slim and our HQ page on Letterboxd using the links in our episode notes. And also why not follow 70mm pod while you're there? No, Slim didn't pay me to say that. Thanks to composing dynamos, Moniker, for the theme music Vampiros Dancoteque. I don't know if you know this Slim, but that particular track is an outtake from the film What We Do in the Shadows.

[User] I didn't know that. It's amazing. If you're enjoying the show and have guests ideas or want to pitch us on your own top four, be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

[Assistant] You can also hit us up on our Twitter and Instagram accounts which are both @letterboxd. That's it for this week. In the immortal, perfect words of Paddington: "If we are kind and polite, the world will be right." And in the even deeper words of Ginger from Casino. "You can't make me stop caring about people."

[User] Hello and welcome to The Letterboxd Show, a podcast about movies from Letterboxd: the social network for film lovers. Each episode, hosts Slim and Gemma—that one's me—are joined by a Letterboxd friend for a chat about their top four on the platform, that is for movies you choose as your favorite films on your Letterboxd profile. It's an opportunity to learn more about our community of movie lovers. We have links in the episode notes to the movies, lists and people we talk about, so you can follow along adding those movies to your watchlists as we merrily roll along.

[Assistant] We'll be having a revolving cast of friends on the show. Filmmakers, podcasters, comedians and normal people just like you and me, who love to sit down and watch a movie and log it on Letterboxd. This episode, we're going to City College and then to jail. And back to City College with Demi Adejuyigbe, screenwriter, comedian and quote, "not a critic". Demi's top four are Lady Bird. I, Tonya, Ocean's Eleven and Hot Rod from 2007. He writes in his review of Hot Rod, quote, "the last truly great goofball comedy." Now—on with the show.

[User] What's it like seeing F9 with 34 of your closest friends? What's the emotion level? What's the vibe? Spare no detail.

[Assistant] It's really—it's chaotic. I don't think you can take in a movie on any base level, if you were experiencing it with the adrenaline of a full crowd where you know the crowd like that. It just feels like you're there and like anything that is—like there will be a base level of here's what just happens in a movie. And anything that goes above or beyond that line is a cheer or a laugh, or like just strong reactions. So no matter what happens in the movie, you're like, I enjoyed that, I had a great time. And you leave and you're like, I don't know about the plot, but, you know. (Slim laughs) Just you're excited, you're having fun. We dressed up for it. We all just knew we were going to just, I don't know, it felt like a very cathartic release of being inside for a year and a half and then being like, let's go just see something absolutely, just absolutely chaotic. And it was chaotic. And I had a great time.

[User] Important question from the red carpet. What did you wear?

[Assistant] I wore a—oh, I actually have it right here. I wore a white tank top and this Dominic Toretto necklace that I got off Etsy. (Demi laughs)

[User] Oh my god. (Slim & Gemma laugh)

[Assistant] And then I also wore white pants because I am obsessed with this one shot in Furious 7, where we see his—spoiler—his and Letty's wedding where she is wearing this beautiful, fully white wedding gown. And he's just in a white tank top and white pants. And it's like so they had time to prepare. It wasn't like an elopement. And he was like, I got it. I'm doing this. Let's go. (Slim laughs) And it's like if she were in a very casual outfit, I'd understand. But the fact that he is not, it's just sort of like, hmm, I don't know about this.

[User] I feel like I see Vin wearing that stuff to like red carpets. I feel like he's pretty much in control of his wardrobe in that franchise at this point.

[Assistant] Totally. I feel like he's one of those guys who like think it's like the billionaire mindset, where it's like you spend less time focusing on what you wear and you can spend more time on other things. It's like, well, you can just also wear, I don't know, like, a nicer shirt? I don't know, it doesn't take that much willpower or brainpower to think of clothes. (Slim laughs)

[User] So having just seen if F9 with 34 of your closest friends, but, you know, done the whole Fast marathon, you have concluded that 7 is the GOAT?

[Assistant] 7 is my favorite. I think it's just what I like about the Fast and Furious franchise is just the idea that it's very high octane, sort of like, incredibly choreographed and really just like well thought out action, within their own sort of set of rules of how physics works, and whatnot. And I think that 7 is the one that gives me the most of that where they just go stunt stunt stunt stunt. And like there's so little planning or dialogue. And I think it's because they bring in a villain where for the first time you don't care as much about his motivations as much as you do about seeing his partaking in the action. Because they're like, well, this guy's a star too. We need to give him some time to shine. And I think because of that, it's just truly there's like no need or time to be like, let's talk about their relationships to each other. It's just let's parachute cars out of the sky. Let's have Brian run up the side of a bus. Let's have them drive between two buildings. It's just, there's no time to breathe or just sort of think, oh, where are they in the world right now? And it doesn't matter! And I love that.

[User] And that's what we're there for. Right?

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] Because you have commented on some of the other Fasts that there are moments where that the exposition without action just goes on a little too long.

[Assistant] Yeah, and you're like, I understand it feels like you need this for some of the audience. I am not that person. I truly am—if they were just like, here's the montage of cars doing things I'd be like cool! Just make it Jackass with cars. And I'm like, great, let's go. (Gemma laughs)

[User] One of my friends just let me know that there's a new Jackass movie coming out.

[Assistant] There is!

[User] And it's just like totally under my radar. Jackass, you know, not to date myself. But Jackass changed my life.

[Assistant] Jackass was—I feel like it's very, it's one of those movies and franchises that sort of is a pin in a lot of people's lives, where it's like, you know where you were when it came out. You know who you were when you were watching it. And I feel so different now. And it was—so I've seen Jackass 4, I went to a screening of it. And it was very strange to just be like—I was nervous going in and being like, okay, I'm a different person than I was when the last movies came out. I don't know how I'm gonna feel about this. And then watching and just being like, yeah, these guys are wild. And not just feeling like oh god, you can't do this anymore. Just feeling like no, you can, weirdly. But yeah, it's very much a cultural product of a time and it's strange to just be like, okay, they're gonna keep going? (Slim laughs)

[User] Their bodies are older—they probably have children—

[Assistant] They do.

[User] This is—interesting.

[Assistant] And they are notably older and you just, you worry for them on that front. But then they still manage to do things where you're like, man, these guys are truly just committed to making us entertained. And I respect that.

[User] Well, speaking of Jackass, let's dive into one of your four favorites on Letterboxd. Now, we call this the Top Four. We call it the four favorites. Letterboxd members choose their four for lots of different reasons. And we use four favorites because we're not saying what are the four best films that have ever been made in the history of cinema? We're saying what are your four favorites?

[Assistant] Well mine are the same. They are the best movies. (Gemma & Slim laugh)

[User] No dispute whatsoever.

[Assistant] Well, then on that note, let's start with Hot Rod. You know, from a similar camp as Jackass and Fast & Furious. (Gemma laughs) In terms of stunts and how far people push themselves. Now, this has a 3.5-star average on Letterboxd, but it has five stars from Demi. Which I have to start off by saying is my personal favorite movie space in the world, is five-star reviews of 3.5-star movies. (Slim laughs) Dive on in. Why is it a five-star for you? (music from Hot Rod fades in)

[User] So I think I don't have a lot of memories of movies that changed my life when I was young. I feel like I didn't get into film in a big way until I went off to college. And because of that, I just feel like sometimes people just like, oh, what inspired you to get into filmmaking? Or like, what was the movie that you watched forever as a kid? It was like, things that other people showed me. And I never really had a choice in watching. And Hot Rod is a movie that I saw in college with friends. And the first time I watched it, I remember being with them in one of their dorms and just be like, oh, yeah, this is really funny. I'm really having a good time, like laughing so much at it. And then watching it again and just feeling like I'm still laughing as much as I did the first time. And just it being like the first movie that sort of like, slotted in my memory as something that like when people would be like, what kind of movies do you like? I was always like, oh, I want to tell them about Hot Rod. It feels like it was the first time I saw a comedy that felt like specific to my tastes and like a thing that I wanted to think of as—if you were to describe your sense of comedy, what would it be? And I think that it taught me a lot about comedy from a direction side and just sort of like, having watched it so many times now, I just like see the rhythm of how they do jokes and like the, the way that they do so many little touches to the movie that make it funnier, and that I think a lot of modern comedies don't really do very well. And I think that's like, because The Lonely Island are so good at that just all the time and normally. But then, particularly in this movie, they throw away the best bits and they're like, there's no focus on it. And I think that makes everything so much funnier. It's not trying to highlight a thing and be like, laugh at this! It's trying to be like there's a story here. And some funny things will happen in that main story. But also on the fringes of that story are even funnier things that you sort of pick up on and they hit you like a surprise. And they make you react in a stronger way than you would if we were to just be like, laugh at this thing I'm showing you! It's like, I don't know. It's like being on Zoom and someone telling a joke and then like something falling off the wall and the background and that being way funnier than the thing that they're trying to make you laugh at. (Slim & Gemma laugh) Because I think surprise is such a big element of any emotional reaction in film, and especially with comedy. And I just think that movie handles it so well Because they know what they're doing with it. But yeah, it just meant so much to me. And just every time I watch it, I feel like I'm like—I feel like I'm gonna preface it with like, I know it's dumb! And it's not like a great movie, but I enjoy it a lot. But then I every time I watch it, like, it is really good, though!


[User] My safe word will be whhh-iskey.

[Assistant] Sorry, Rod, what was that?

[User] Whhh-iskey.

[Assistant] Don't you mean whiskey?

[User] Whhh-at?

[Assistant] You're saying it weird.

[User] Saying whhh-at weird?

[Assistant] All of it.

[User] Whhh-ere do you get off?


[User] I think I rewatched Hot Rod ahead of this. I hadn't seen it in a long time. But what reminded me this movie is if you find someone that likes Hot Rod, like you have found your group of friends. Because you could share this movie with somebody and they could think it's the biggest pile-of-crap comedy. (Slim laughs) And you know instinctively what kind of comedy they like. And what really shocked me to have this watch was the editing of this movie is maybe some of the best editing in a comedy that I can remember seeing in so long. I mean, every point is so well done and well timed that it just hits so good.

[Assistant] It really does. Yeah. And it's like another one of those things that the pacing and the editing and just the way that they hit the jokes and sort of like leave you after a joke without like lingering on it or giving you like a reaction shot of someone being like, that's weird. It just feels so very specific. And like a lot of comedies around this time tried it but Hot Rod did it so well. And I'm always just like, it bums me out that their movies never seem to do financially well, because I'm just like they're doing the thing! What do you people want?! (Slim laughs)

[User] So good. I'm coming in hot with the editor's name, Malcolm Campbell. Who of course, is the genius who edited Wayne's World. Coming to America. Ace Ventura. Home Alone 3. Wayne's World 2. Shanghai Knights. Son of the Mask. Nothing but Trouble. You know, the list goes on and on and on. So this is someone who—oh and Trading Places—this is someone who gets comedy. And American Werewolf in London.

[Assistant] I'm so embarrassed to reveal that of the movies you named I've only seen Shanghai Nights and Ace Ventura. (Slim laughs)

[User] You haven't seen Home Alone 3?

[Assistant] I have not! Somehow. I really slipped out of the AFI watch I did.

[User] Not even and of the Wayne's World?

[Assistant] No, I haven't.

[User] Wait, whaaat?

[Assistant] The bugbear for friends of mine and I'm always just like—it's one of those movies that's been so hyped up for me that I'm worried I'd watch it now and just be like I get it but it's not making me laugh. And I just would rather have it exist in my mind that it's funny than prove myself wrong.

[User] Yeah, in my group of friends, we have like a Discord where we talk about movies. And I had this weird thing growing up the same way where if people loved a movie enough before I got a chance to see it, I would be completely turned off to that movie for like years. (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Little worrisome.

[User] And everyone would just despise me for it. But get over it!

[Assistant] I think that you'd be okay with Wayne's World despite the hype and I'll tell you why. It exists for me in a similar suburb as Hot Rod. And other movies of this sort of comedy olk, which is—and it's a suburb that I grew up in with my two brothers—it is a suburb where people do nothing. They fuck around, doing nothing. And Bright Wall Dark Room wrote a beautiful piece on Letterboxd about how Hot Rod falls into this gorgeous notion of nothingness being important, especially in increasingly online and you know, digital worlds, where people pay stupid amounts of money to go on retreats to get off their phones in order to rest up in order to become better capitalists workers. When in actual fact, what we need to do is just go back to our suburbs. And you know, I wrote in my review of Hot Rod, which I had never seen until last night. So thanks for that Demi.

[User] Anytime!

[Assistant] And I wrote in my review, "Tag yourself, I'm Kevin" because I literally was. I held the video camera while my brothers and our neighbors did the stunts with the skateboards and the shonky ramps that we built that went up and over the creek that ran alongside our house. So I watched Hot Rod and I think this is my teenage years. I loved it.

[User] It captures a weird mundanity of suburbia so well that it also feels like it helps because there's no time period that this movie really exists in. It's sort of like, it has an '80s style. But then every so often, you're just sort of like is it an 80s style? Are we supposed to believe that this is like a vision of how children see themselves and therefore it's like, this is like their story of who they were as kids, but we just are still seeing them as adults. And it's just like, I think that helps it so well because you don't ever go like these guys need to grow up and get a job, it's just kind of like it makes sense, they're children. And they sell the idea of this being what you do and what you care about when your kids so much.

[Assistant] I wanted to ask your reaction to—I looked at some of the lower star ratings on Letterboxd of this film. And one one and a half star review from a chap named Jack, writes, "look, the whole proving masculinity thing is definitely more toxic than funny and is not aging well." And this is in response to the whole storyline, which is that is that Rod Kimble wants to earn the respect of his stepdad who was paid by the brilliant Ian McShane, just sooo well in this film. And the whole point is that he needs to raise enough money, $50,000, for heart surgery for a stepdad so that his stepdad can get well enough for Rod to beat the shit out of him. And, you know, finally earn his respect. And meanwhile, there's the girl next door played by the beautiful Isla Fisher, who seems to exist, you know, only for one reason and one reason alone. And I get all of that. But I wanted to ask your opinion on that take?

[User] Well, I mean, I always feel like every time someone has a very negative take on a movie I like, I always am, like, my gut response is, it's fine. Like movies are whatever, no one's right or wrong about a movie. I just like that people are enjoying it and thinking about them, whatever. And I feel the same way about that take. But then I also think it feels like that's sort of the point to me? Of like, this sort of notion of masculinity being the thing that you have to prove. And I think that like, it feels like a satire of masculinity to me and it always has. It's just like the idea of the most important thing in this guy's life being not that he loves this father figure, it's that he has to prove himself to this father figure. And the only way you can do that is by kicking his ass is such a ridiculous notion. And the lengths he goes to, to prove that he is good at this, while also sort of like like never really fulfilling the dream that he actually has. Like, he doesn't complete one successful stunt the entire film, but he still gets to the point where he's able to save his stepfather only because he just is so committed. And I think it's like, it's sort of, it feels like that's another example of the background thing being the real thing. Like the thing you're seeing in the foreground is he wants to do these stunts. And it's like, why does he want to do these stunts? It's like, well, he does love stunt work, but really, the only reason he's actually drawn to doing this is because he just has to beat up his father. It is for some reason, a point of pride for him. It's such a ridiculous notion. It feels like that's the joke to me. I don't think anyone has ever watched this—or I hope no one has ever watched this and been like yeah, that is how you prove yourself as a man to your father. (Gemma laughs) And then on the Isla Fisher note, I fully agree. It's always a shame to rewatch this and just kind of be like she doesn't have anything to do besides be a love interest and to like exist in this place where Rod is just like oh no! She has a boyfriend! And then she leaves that boyfriend suddenly, it's like oh the conflicts over, she can be with Rod now. But I guess I wish she at least got more to do.

[Assistant] I was gonna say I was okay with the scene where she with Rod says "Okay, you can have a ride on my, you know, funny little scooter motorbike." And then it turns out that she's just this incredible stuntwoman.

[User] So much better. Yeah, I think a lot of times like when women get to be love interest in rom coms, they don't get to do any of the com, they just sort of exist as like a foil. And there's one moment at the end where she kisses Rod and it's just this very weird open mouth kiss. (Gemma & Slim laugh) And I'm like, she should have gotten to do more of that over the course of movie where she is also just a weirdo and just very funny and everyone's like, why did you do that? But I wish that it was at least that and if they're still not going to make her like a fully fledged solo person.

[Assistant] Yeah, like if Pam Brady had been able to do one more pass, I'm guessing that's what you'd pull out of it. But I would just go back and watch that 90 seconds of Andy Samberg rolling down that hill again and again and again. Any movie that has a scene in it that makes me absolutely weep with laughter is a, yeah, it's a five star in my book.

[User] There's also a moment in The Great Muppet Caper where they just let the Muppets go ragdoll and Gonzo jumps in front of a taxi. (Slim laughs) And it's the funniest thing I've ever seen. It's just like suddenly making a person just an object for like the physical comedy is just hilarious.

[Assistant] I think you've just brought up a film that you and I maybe love and Slim maybe does not love.

[User] Really?

[Assistant] Listen, we didn't have to jump into this. We didn't have to get into it. (Slim laughs) The new Jason Segel Muppet one, I wasn't a huge fan of at the time, because I was one of those dweebs that thought that like, aw, Kermit would never abandon his friends! He never lived like that! You know, I was pushing my glasses up in the theater. So I was kind of turned off to the new Muppet one. But you know, maybe it's time to revisit, you know?

[User] I think it's worth a revisit.

[Assistant] Yeah, it's definitely worth a revisit. It won the Oscar for Best Song! I mean, come on! Hey, Bret McKenzie was only competing against himself. That was amazing Oscars that year, where there are only three songs nominated in one was the song from Rio.

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] Which features Jemaine, the other Flight of the Conchord, and the other two songs were both great songs from the new Muppets.

[User] What a shoe in.

[Assistant] Genius. I know. Imagine having a two out of three chance.

[User] Speaking of star power, your next movie in your favorites, maybe the most star power in any movie ever filmed.

[Assistant] Oh, yeah.

[User] Ocean's Eleven, which is sitting at a 3.8 average on Letterboxd.

[Assistant] Too low.

[User] I mean, is there a movie that has this amount of star power besides his franchise? It's ridiculous, right? (music from Ocean's Eleven fades in)

[Assistant] I know! And I think every movie is trying to do that now where you have your Dune's or your Knives Out's, or Bullet Train, where it's just like the cast is so stacked.

[User] Oh, yeah! Did you get cast in Knives Out 2, Demi?

[Assistant] You know, I was in for a week, and then I'm out. And you know, I'm gonna see what happens. But it's really just like, I think it's not as big anymore. Because the level, the way that stars are now is nothing like they were at the height in 2001. Like when this movie came out, you could not have a more A-list trio than George Clooney, Brad Pitt and Julia Roberts. They just didn't make stars bigger than that. And now there are so many movies, there's so many franchises. I think the idea of a star, and not just celebrity, a star is like whittled down to maybe three people if even that. And I just, I think that's why this movie feels so special to me, because it feels like the platonic ideal of what a film could be. It's just like the biggest stars, the smartest plot. It doesn't feel like it's insane in a way that like, they just threw a bunch of money at the wall and saw what stick. It feels like very constructed and planned in a way that like movies now feel like they can't be because everyone's got contracts that sort of determine what the film has to feature. And it just feels like that was a miracle that can never be replicated. And then to do it two more times, in ways that I truly love just as much, I think is like a magic trick. But I just, every time I watch it, I am blown away. And I just feel like—I also just love a heist movie. I love a con. I love a mystery. Anything where the entire purpose is to give you all of the clues and still trick you, I think is just like, again, the platonic ideal of good storytelling and just sort of the idea of direction being a thing where you are literally leading an audience to a conclusion that you want them to believe that they gained themselves and being like 'I tricked you! It was this.' And that works every time for me. Even though I've seen this movie so many times. I'm just like, I forget, like how do they do it? Oh, right! And it's just—it's so charming. It's great.

[User] Yeah, I was watching for the first time in a while last night. And George Clooney's hair to start this movie off, my god. He has an amazing head of hair movie.

[Assistant] He does.

[User] I don't know what kind of secrets he has, but he needs to share 'em

[Assistant] He has an amazing head of hair but it's never been uglier than that prison hairdo. (Slim laughs)

[User] I love it! That's the hair I'm talking about! The head of hair, he had it slicked back. I was like, god damn George, you look great right now.

[Assistant] So humbling.

[User] Absolutely love it. It was like he was owning himself. Right?

[Assistant] And he did this back to back with O Brother, Where Art Thou? where his hair is like so purposefully, like dopey. He's just a person where you can put in any scenario and it's like, oh, damn, he still looks very good. But just to like, put him back to back and he's like prison getups where his hair is supposed to look insane. And you're like, how does it still work kind of? It's very funny to me.

[User] In canon of Brad Pitt eating in movies, Ocean's Eleven is surely the number one right?

[Assistant] Oh, I feel like it's the one where everyone's like, he's been doing this for a while, like we start to sort of see it as a thing that he does all the time. And like it's so funny and just feels like you don't know where it came from. But it works for the character because it's such—I think that's another thing about this franchise, is they give characters like very casual quirks that they don't need to ever like comment on. But it gives them a physicality that makes it so that, sort of gives a clear divide between who these characters are. Like Rusty Ryan is so different from Danny Ocean because of Brad Pitt's very calm and casual physicality. Even though Clooney and Pitt are not too dissimilar acting wise. But I think that like Soderbergh just was very smart about how he was like, I have 11 people, how do I make them all different without just being like this is the smart guy, this is the dumb guy, this is the strong guy, because they're all kind of dumb, actually. (Slim laughs)

[User] It's the shrimp cocktails that he's casually eating. The burger when he has a little burp. He holds his tummy and he's a little bit like, ah, I'm done with it. But it's also Don Cheadle's, like, East End accent. What is going on with that?!

[Assistant] It's perfect! It's flawless!

[User] Innit?


[User] Barney Rubble.

[Assistant] The reviews I was scanning, almost everybody mentioned that accident in one way or another. And I didn't even mind it when I was watching it! I was like, yeah, that sounds right to me. If I'd do an accident, I'd probably sound like that. (Slim laughs)

[User] I don't think I've reminded it as a kid even though I am British, and have spent a lot of time around British people. I think I was always just like, oh, probably a different part of England. (Gemma laughs) But I think it's just because it's such a fun choice. There's no part of me that goes like, oh, that doesn't make sense. He should have a proper like, very good English accent. Like that tells us this guy is just of a different—all it's supposed to do is to be like, this guy's not an American. He's not living by the rules that we are accustomed to. So when we see him being someone who's like, yeah, I blow things up. You're like, I don't know. He clearly grew up on the streets of London, I don't know how they did things there. And it just adds to his mythos in a way that I really respect. And I really, I love. I don't think they'll ever do a fourth but I would love to see his character come back in like if they ever do like Ocean's 9. Just bring him back have accent be even worse. Why not? (Slim laugh)

[Assistant] I have not. But did either of you ever watch the original, the 1960 Ocean's Eleven?

[User] No.

[Assistant] I was planning to when it was on criterion channel, but I heard it's not very good and then ends with like a weird blackface thing. I was like, I'll miss it. But I also just heard it's not very heisty. It's just a lot of talking. And I'm like, well then I don't want to watch that.

[User] Right, yeah.

[Assistant] I guess my only thoughts were around the star power 2001. You know, like maybe, because the original Ocean's Eleven in 1960 features Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr, Angie Dickinson, who was a huge star at the time. Cesar Romero, like crazy, crazy people, the Brat Pack. Absolutely. And it's funny, isn't it? Because it's almost like you couldn't remake it until you had George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Elliot Gould. It's funny when things can come back around again. I'm not sure, I guess you know, we'll know when we see it. But I'm not sure that Timothée Chalamet in Dune is quite the right starpower for another go round this soon.

[User] I don't think they could do it again. I really just feel like because of the way that stars work, and because of the way the internet works, it just feels like we are over inundated with any celebrity, even if they don't have like a presence. You know, we have paparazzi capturing their every move. We have announcements of all of their movies, we see so much of these people in their personalities in a way that we never got to at that period of time, because the internet is like democratizing the very idea of existence. And therefore, like, there's no one that has like a mythology to them. Where seeing them in a movie feels like you are going I'm looking at a god. I'm looking at someone who is not human who I can't relate to who just has some sort of it-factor. And now you're like, oh, it's Chris Pratt. Yeah, I've seen him in a bunch of things. I get his deal.

[Assistant] Clearly, that leads us to the third of your four favorites. (music from I, Tonya plays) Speaking of celebrity and paparazzi, and how we can and cannot ever truly know somebody. And that is the fantastic Craig Gillespie directed I, Tonya.

[User] I, Tonya.

[Assistant] Why is this in your top four?

[User] So I had like, I always feel like I should put I, Tonya in my top four. And then I like no, don't. It's so new. And it's like a recency bias thing. And you talk about it so much. I just always have this like fear of like, someone being like, oh, that's so you when I do things, as if it's like, who cares? I am me. (Slim & Gemma laugh) But I think that it's because if I'm being honest with myself, of like, it's just, I always feel like I need to give some time to a movie to feel like, oh, how do I really feel about it in the grand scale of every movie I've ever seen? And it's just like, every time I think about it, every time I've watched or talk about I, Tonya, I do feel this string, I got to give it more time like I'm scared to commit to being like, I really liked this thing. Like when you're really in love in a new relationship. And I think that it's just because like, I don't see the same love for that movie that I see for Hot Rod or Ocean's Eleven. But I think that's even more of a reason that it really does feel like a personal favorite and not just like an idea of like me trying to like a good movie. Because I think I, Tonya is a fantastic film. And every time I watch it, there's a new aspect of it that I just feel like I want to write so much about or think so much about. But I just think it is a stunning portrait of a type of person that we are seeing more and more of now. But it tries to basically give some sympathy to this character without telling you that she's not still, or without trying to tell you that she's not bad or that she's not like flawed in some way. And I think that's so hard for people to do, because it's often just like—I think with anti-heroes, often you get this portrayal of them as like, oh, they're good, but they're grumpy or whatever. And with this, it's just sort of like, no, she is an asshole, but she's a product of so many things that we also need to consider. And then also, when that all comes to a head in a way that it does where you are now on the biggest stage on Earth, when you are you are validated for your talent on some level, and you have this belief that like people have been treating you wrong, and it's valid. And then you become a person who is like, of a status where you sort of have to—it's like class mobility almost. If you are someone who grows up poor, and you become rich, you don't suddenly in your brain go, 'I'm rich now, I should probably change the way that I think about these things.' You still feel that you are a victim. And I think this movie does that in such a good way, while also saying she is a victim but also not trying to say that just because she is a victim in these ways does not mean that she does not have to think of her responsibility to these things. I feel like I've been thinking about it so much lately, just like with people like Kanye and Dave Chappelle where it's like the intersection of wealth and class and race. Where it's like, when black people have been systematically pushed down for so long. And they sort of—we get these ideas of this is who I am, this is what the world is trying to tell me I am, I'm not going to be that. But then you also rise in power in a different sort of system. You suddenly see yourself still as a victim, even though you are amongst the more powerful people. And it's like when Dave Chappelle goes on stage and is talking about how like, people treat him a certain way because of his race. I'm also just like, well, people also treat you a certain way as you are a man who has $100 million, who at the snap of his fingers can go out on stage and say things to an audience of millions of people. And Kanye, I'm like, yes, you have systematically pushed down as a black man. And as someone who grew up in a lower class, but also you were a billionaire, you have so much power. And I think it's like, a lot of times it's an either or with those scenarios. Where you see a person, you're like, they're either good or they're either bad. And I, Tonya does a very good job of saying this is a woman who has been abused and is a woman who grew up poor and like through the sport that made her feel loved still was seen as a lower class person, no matter how good she got the thing. But it is also a woman who, because of the way that she grew up and the like, support system that she had, and the way that she never really felt loved and anything besides skating. She has a very certain mentality that as an adult, you have to have the responsibility to shed and recognizing yourself and just like, fix! And she doesn't. And because of that she is an asshole. But that doesn't mean she's not a victim. And it's just like, it's things like that, where it's like handled so deftly in this movie. And it feels like it is the only biopic I've ever seen of a woman that has the same energy of like a Scorsese movie, and just like how it's like so poppy and so constantly moving. Like every scene of that movie feels like candy to me, and I love watching it. And I love thinking about it. And it really just is like every little aspect of it, I love so much and I think about in a million ways. Anyway, great movie!

[Assistant] Am I adding I, Tonya to my top four right now?

[User] Do! It!

[Assistant] Like I feel like you just freakin' sold me.

[User] Let's get the movement going! We, Tonya! (Slim laughs)

[Assistant] Oh my god! We, Tonya! (Gemma laughs) We are Tonya!

[User] I did watch it for the first time, finally. This is one of those movies that was kind of like everyone saw I, Tonya. I was like, alright, I gotta wait until things cooled down a little bit. Watch it quietly. And so I did. And man, I just wasn't expecting it to be so funny!

[Assistant] Yes!

[User] It's hilarious! It is so funny.

[Assistant] It's very funny. And I think that because it's so funny, the marketing for the movie was very much like "It's an uproarious dark comedy!" And I remember seeing that marketing come out and being like, oh, no, no, no, they shouldn't market it this way. Because I think it also like came out at the height of the #MeToo and #TimesUp movements. And it didn't feel like we got a lot of discourse about what this movie says about abuse and the depiction of Gillooly as an abuser and all the men in her life as abuser. From the cops who like leave her in the car with this man who's clearly just beat her, to the cops who give her full testimony to Gillooly after she's given it to them. And it's just like so many things like that. Or even just seeing Gillooly where it's like after he's clearly shown to be an abuser but then we get a very romantic scene between her and him where you kind of go like 'I don't know if we're supposed to like him? Why are you doing this romantic thing after we've seen him be a huge piece of shit?' It's like, well because that's how victims of abuse see their abusers!

[User] That's how abuse works.

[Assistant] Exactly!

[User] You know? It's some crazy statistic like it takes someone seven times to leave their abuser if they're lucky, you know? If they get out alive.

[Assistant] And then her tying that into the the superstition of her needing abuse to be good at what she does, is so heartbreaking. And it's like handled comedically but has a very dark undertone to it, that I'm always just sort of like, bothered by the idea that they were just sort of watching that movie and going like, "Oh, yeah, we're going to tell people this is funny!" Because I'm like, no, it's so much more. But it is funny. I just think it handles the tone switch of that so well.

[User] Mhmm.

[Assistant] Interesting fact that I shared with Slim before the record. I interviewed Malin Åkerman, late last year about a boxing movie that she'd put out. And learned this amazing fact about Malin Åkerman, the actress and now producer. She produces movies now, because she had a bit of a jolt. When I, Tonya came out. She called her people and she was like, why was I not considered for this film? Because it turns out that Malin Åkerman grew up as a figure skater, competed nationally in Canada for ten years!

[User] Really?

[Assistant] Yeah! And she was like, "This is this is insane. How did I not get the call?" And they said, "Well, it's because Margot Robbie built that role in that film from the ground up, she produced it." And that's when the light bulb went off and she's like, "I'm not going to miss out on roles that are perfect for me again." But I love that. I love that Margot Robbie as a producer, obviously has been growing in skill and stature and I, Tonya is an example of that.

[User] How do we get Tonya Harding on Letterboxd? Can we make this happen before this episode comes out?

[Assistant] I don't know if I want to see what Tonya Harding has to say about certain movies. (Demi & Gemma laugh)

[User] What do you think she'd say about Ocean's Eleven or Lady Bird?

[Assistant] I think she'd love Ocean's Eleven. Oh, I would love to hear her talk about Lady Bird! I mean, the dynamic of that movie—the mother, daughter dynamic of that movie versus her own mother daughter dynamic. I'm like, well, she probably has something interesting to say there.

[User] And there it is. There is the theme that ties all of your four films together! (Gemma laughs)

[Assistant] If there was any sort of parental relationship in Ocean's Eleven, I'd be like, that's it! But I don't think there is. (Demi & Slim laugh)

[User] I don't know, I think Danny and Rusty a little?

[Assistant] Yeah. A little!

[User] You know, when he's like, "Don't tell me you're doing all this for a girl. Don't tell me you're doing all this for Tess." There's a little bit of a—I don't know—there's some kind of thing going on. But you're right.

[Assistant] Maybe them and Linus? I feel like they have a very fatherly, we're teaching you, sort of relationship with him.

[User] I didn't share this because I was too embarrassed. When I first saw Ocean's Eleven, I thought Linus' character was Brad Pitt's son in that movie. (Demi laughs) I like missed a line. So the rest of the movie I was like, 'Wait a minute, is he his son?!'

[Assistant] Would have been a bold choice to be—like Matt Damon is young enough to play that. (Gemma laughs)

[User] He's like a baby in that movie. You know, it could have worked. It could have worked out. But your final movie that we're going to talk about from your favorites, is Greta Gerwig's Lady Bird.

[Assistant] That's right.

[User] And this obviously I think for a lot of people can connect with. In my review, I wrote that the one scene where the teacher hands her test back, grade down. I almost had an anxiety attack from my days in school. But how did Lady Bird connect with you in your viewings with it? (music from Lady Bird fades in)

[Assistant] I think in the same way that it did with you. It's the little details about the movie. And the little things that Greta Gerwig paints as like a picture of suburbia, and a picture of growing up and feeling like you don't belong in the space that you're in. And slowly having to recognize that even though you don't love the space that you're in, love the people you're surrounded with and are like sort of trying to get out. You have a connection to this city. And just sort of like, it's a coming of age movie that I don't think I've seen many coming of age movies do, which is portray the person who is growing up as a person who is like to be seen as flawed and to be seen as like, 'Oh, I don't look like this city,' but having to sort of realize as they are like, it's time to leave the city, that their environment has made them. And they love the place that they've grown up. Or the things that they've sort of shied away from, are things that bring them comfort. And like the contentious relationships they have with their parents and their friends—or like even just her relationship with their brother—is something that is very relatable to me. And it's different. it's not the same for me. I see it so much more in like my family members and in my sister with our mom than I do with myself. But it is so recognizable in just the idea of dreaming of growing up out of a place. And being like 'I'm better than this, I deserve to be away from this.' And because of that, like not allowing yourself to see the love that people have been thrusting upon you, even if it's in a different way than you are understanding. Or even if it's in a way that you see as like, painful to you. And like, there's so many things she does with her mother, that to her read as inconveniences or it's just a thing that my mom does or whatever. And when you get to see her perspective, and you see the things that she does, just as things that she's doing clearly not because they are convenient for her, but because she loves and cares for her daughter. I think that that is—it really unlocks just sort of like what the movie is about for me. And there's one scene in particular that I think about literally every day of my life. It's just sort of like—I think it just felt like someone saying a sentence that you wish you had heard when you were younger. It's like learning a word that like everyone's like, "Oh, it's door." And you're like "Door? Door! Door! Door is the thing that it's called that I see everywhere!" (Gemma laughs)