comment_id,post_id,post_title,body,score,created_utc d20k2tj,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Anyone who's paid attention has known the system has been rigged for years. This year we happen to have both a Republican and a Democrat who are open about trying to fight the establishment's system.",2609,2016-04-13 00:35:52 d20wgkt,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Because our country is being stolen by special interest groups, mutlinational corporations, and political elites. This election is exposing the nasty strangle-hold they have on our democracy. That is why we can't get the right kind of health care reform... That's why we can't decriminalize drugs across the board.... That's why we have the most prisoners than any other country... That's why we have crumbling infrastructure and a collapsing social security system... The state of our democracy is in shambles because the electorate has let it slip out of our hands. Not only that! We also have a government that is willing to eradicate our Bill of Rights protections. Openly spying on everybody, monitoring mass communications and wiping their ass with our 4th amendment. Things have got to change! Wake up people! Our republic is disappearing! Both political parties are actively doing their best to rid the popular vote... Super delegates?? Delegates in general?? Brokered conventions?? What the fuck?? We let this happen and it's terrifying ",1137,2016-04-13 07:33:13 d20mck1,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],1007,2016-04-13 01:35:41 d20rn68,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,For the people who don't remember the year 2000,775,2016-04-13 04:05:59 d20wvbk,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I see it a lot like this: Imagine you're on a desert island with a chest full of delicious food and bottles of clean drinking water. You go to eat some food, but find that even though the top of the food looked pretty good, the underside was covered in festering human shit! Disgusted, you throw it away and reach for a new thing to eat. To your chagrin, this piece is covered in shit, too. You root around for hours, but never find a really clean piece of food. There's always human shit on it somewhere. Underneath. Around the edges. Creamy shit filling. Some aren't even food at all! Some are just disgusting turds through and through. Bewildered, you go for a drink of water. But...it's actually full of piss. God dammit, everything's full of piss and shit! Well! You aren't going to eat shit and drink piss! You've got some dignity! You'd rather starve to death than eat that shit. ...but then you see the other survivors eating it. Some kind of shrug and say it's better than nothing. Others say it's really good and call you a Nazi for not eating shit with them. So, you give up and wander off. After sometime, you come across a big coconut tree. It doesn't have quite enough to feed everyone, but it looks clean. It certainly didn't come from that damn shit box. You all might survive after all. But you need help reaching the tree. So you run back and tell your friends the news. There's food! We just have to drop our shitty food and work together. Some are excited and eager to help... ...but others aren't so quick to join. ""What's wrong with the shitty food?"" ""I'm sure there's shit on those coconuts somewhere!"". ""We need to drink this piss, since it contains wasted vitamins and salts to keep us alive!"" Some even insist there isnt, nor was there ever any shit on the food as they smear turds around their mouth, staring at you with mad eyes. So you and a few friends run off to try and get those coconuts. And while you flail and jump, the shit eating survivors will laugh and jeer. No matter how much you beg, they'll insist that all food is shitty, and thinking anything different is stupid. That's voter apathy to me.",695,2016-04-13 07:57:30 d20xasp,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The debacle on drugs and privacy comes from the top-down (in my opinion). The media's opinion on these issues shape the American voter. The problem is, American mass media is deeply entrenched with our political system. They both scratch each other's backs. CNN wants access to top secretaries and top aids, well, they better be soft on this issue(or that issue). A journalist in the associated press gives the President or a major political figure a hard time at a conference, then say goodbye to your seat. The media doesn't get paid by the government to ""tow the line"". They tow the line so they can have access. So they can provide the illusion of content and influence. It was EXTREMELY apparent during the 8 Bush years. It's what made Fox News explode onto the scene. They openly fought for Republicans and establishment political figures, and now look. Fox News is one of the most lucrative media channels in the United States. And it is complete garbage propaganda. The American public is dumb as fuck, imo, due to a concerted effort by the political elite and financial elite to eliminate us from the general political environment. Diluting our minds with bullshit and entertainment. (Lol i sound like some loon off r/conspiracy)",453,2016-04-13 08:24:16 d20lq3l,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,More like the year Americans proved it was rigged.,395,2016-04-13 01:19:31 d20pq6f,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,For me that would be 2000. ,370,2016-04-13 03:07:36 d20wz0j,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I have underwear older than you.,325,2016-04-13 08:03:44 d20lw2l,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],280,2016-04-13 01:23:47 d20v3a6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],275,2016-04-13 06:20:49 d20xatg,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The two parties can do whatever they want in their primaries. They are NOT government entities. People are operating under this idea that the D's and R's are officially endorsed by the Constitution. They are semi-private gangs that exist to win elections. Thats it. The elections are rigged only in that People barely vote and are generally retarded.",252,2016-04-13 08:24:19 d20rtjl,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"More like ""2016: The Year Millennials Deluded Themselves Into Believing They Are Fully Representative of All Americans"".",151,2016-04-13 04:11:45 d20wins,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It was a culmination of things. Gore actually won the popular vote by 500,000, there were some vote recounting shenanigans in Florida, and a flawed ""voting machine"" issue. I don't think I fully understood most of those things when it happened, but eventually I learned.",150,2016-04-13 07:36:26 d20x162,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"A very popular candidate was elected in 2008, and before that the Internet wasn't nearly as big as now, social media was non-existent. So injustices and suppression were not really heard of, especially on a large scale, and it had a bit of a conspiracy sound to it. Now, people have a platform to express and rally on, and it's a lot easier to see, ""oh yeah, maybe there is a problem"". Most people care about the presidential election more than any other, for better or worse. It's also the only one (at least that I can think of) that is a national vote. ",148,2016-04-13 08:07:18 d20mfvl,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,The RNC was pretty blatant about robbing Dr. Paul of any fair shot at a nomination. ,126,2016-04-13 01:38:01 d20x32t,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I never thought politics could be explained so well with shit analogies. ,121,2016-04-13 08:10:34 d20x4iz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Part of the issue with your statement is that much of the country legitimately believes in it. There isn't a single policy issue that somewhere around 50% of people don't follow. You think some vast majority of the country wants to decriminalize drugs? Or be softer on crime? Nope. It might be a slight majority, but only slight. Not a single policy issue gets passed without some decent portion of the populace wanting it. People wanted the war on drugs when it was first pushed, and the data shows a majority of conservatives still do. It also shows that people want to be spied on like they are. A slight majority was opposed to Snowden and though he should be thrown in jail for what he did. A lot of people want a bigger NSA that makes companies like Apple give the government whatever they want. ",113,2016-04-13 08:13:08 d20x2m7,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],104,2016-04-13 08:09:46 d20knaj,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Elections haven't started yet; these are primaries. The parties are under no legal obligation to let voters decide the nominees. The problem is that we're beholden to a two-party system. The fact that we're unhappy with the apparent nominees is only a single, shitty consequence of Republican/Democrat dominance.",99,2016-04-13 00:51:09 d20v3o9,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The funny thing is it's actually a lot less rigged than it was even in relatively recent years. It was as recently as the 1970s when there was little to no voter say in primaries. The solution is to ditch the two main parties, but no one seems interested in doing that, so we're stuck with quasi-private entities choosing the only two nominees that are going to get any votes in the general. But it gets worse. If you think it's bad for the presidential elections, you should see Congress, and state and local elections. The duopolistic system is deeply anti-democratic in nature and the consequences are systemic. For one final gut-punch, the voting public is so turned around and affirmed by an entertainment-based press, even if we had a more democratic system, we'd probably still choose clowns, because in a representative democracy the representatives are a mirror of the voting public. ",97,2016-04-13 06:21:20 d20t3gu,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I had to get halfway through this before I realized it was satire. That's how bad it's gotten around here.,96,2016-04-13 04:56:11 d20l0a7,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"They have been blatant this year... Registration swapping, Hillary victory fund, and so much more...",92,2016-04-13 01:00:46 d20poy4,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],89,2016-04-13 03:06:37 d20t30p,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,2016: The year Millennials realized that's not how any of this works.,88,2016-04-13 04:55:44 d20s8bi,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I would argue the primary process is more important than the general election. By the time the only two parties have their candidates, the fix is in",85,2016-04-13 04:25:25 d20vrrz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,The supreme court refused to recount the votes?,85,2016-04-13 06:54:52 d20r7pd,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Sure, Sanders is losing the primaries. But that doesn't mean that he is not the peoples choice and the election isn't being stolen. Everyone *knows* he is the legitimate candidate. They shouldn't even let those old people be voting. For one thing, they are really *old*. And all those black people are just voting for Clinton becasue they are confused. Sanders is the best candidate for black people and they should be counting black votes for Sanders no matter how the were ""voted."" And I heard they used a coin toss in Ohio!",83,2016-04-13 03:52:17 d20w5sk,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,It's weird growing up with that. The memory sits in the back of your mind and you half-pretend it's not going to happen again.,80,2016-04-13 07:16:09 d20y0dz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"No matter what you think of the case, you have to laugh at the fact that the judges ruled along party lines.",78,2016-04-13 09:10:56 d20q5ni,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],76,2016-04-13 03:20:15 d210bu1,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"They've built a system around the parties that's incredibly difficult to break into. If they were two private corporations fighting over an important market, the federal government would be within it's power to break them up. Just because they're private entities doesn't mean that we can't or SHOULDN'T regulate them, it's just that until now we haven't realized that it's necessary. ",76,2016-04-13 11:28:48 d20kez6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"No, it's the year you found out. We have known for decades.",75,2016-04-13 00:44:50 d2116l4,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],75,2016-04-13 12:05:21 d20vzcw,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Ya, I was 4. I don't remember 2000. ",73,2016-04-13 07:06:17 d20uzi2,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"the primary process isn't even part of the actual election, it's just for the parties to pick who they will support in the election. They want someone who the people will actually support and vote for, but that's not the only aspect they take into consideration. At the end of the day, the party picks who they are going to run.",73,2016-04-13 06:15:54 d20ry2o,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Maybe it'll also be the year they find out that party primaries are not ""elections"" per se. Technically they don't need to have primaries at all. ",70,2016-04-13 04:15:50 d20lm36,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I have been stalking this election as an outside observer to the US and it really is fascinating to me. I am utterly bemused by the lack of critical analysis of a range of sources and the ability for everyday Americans to draw their own informed and fully justified conclusion. I see people, the media and the mass of online platforms (many breeding grounds of Trump or Sanders supporters from what I can see) spewing and churning out ill thought out nonsense constantly. There is a lack of nuance to opinions, there is a clear lack of shade between the black and white, there is no focus on vetting the detail of proposals and plans - its simply good v bad, an angel v the devil... SPIN SPIN SPIN. Publish post from here, share post from here, send out blog from here... all treated as gospel! I had a recent discussion, my first in fact with a Sanders supporter regarding the whole pope situation. When linked directly to the various press releases that clarify the situation, the clarify the role of the conference, that demonstrate the Pope did not extend the invitation nor will he even be here I might as well have been branded a witch for the torrent of abuse the came as a result was insane. Broadcasts such as the one shown from MSNBC re Wyoming do nothing to help educate or inform the general public - they mislead and obscure the facts. In this particular article concerning rigged elections... theres a clear misunderstanding to begin with about what an election is. An 'election' the primaries are not! And here re Wyoming Delegates tied 7/7... clearly these are issued at a lower level than the 56/44 figure they keep parroting and some areas are more delegate rich meaning you can win less but come out with more or in this case equal. Then super-delegates. Clearly this system is there to prevent a catastrophe like Trump from being the nominee. If I was a US republican right now I would kill for some superdelegates!! If the system as pro-ported benefits Clinton then why did it not in 2008? Clearly super-delegates will do what is in the interest of the party... and right now Hillary Clinton is winning by significant margins. Why would they back the runner up? Yes he has won the last however many open primaries and caucus states. That does not mean he is winning. Perhaps what is a more reasoned argument is that superdelegates should simply not be awarded until or in the run up to convention time where they can fulfill their purpose and not have an early impact on voter perceptions. Perhaps the caucus system, which you could argue has unfairly favoured Sanders, needs removing. I could go on. And so could all of you. My concern is the way in which you could go on however!! Attacks, digs, ignorance to reason are not ways to bring people on board - you are just pissing each other off and bashing away at your keyboards. Stop. Just sit for a moment. I dare you. Just sit and objectively look at the numbers for christ sake! Challenge yourself to check any news for yourself. Question what you read. Second guess what you hear. Consider carefully what not only your opposing candidate(s) say - but your own. Don't repeat without something being your own justified and validated opinion. Dream big, aim high and be sure to consider for yourself the facts - the entire message and core of the sanders campaign it appears to me is getting lost in a sea of negative supporters and populist spin. Anyway. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers and have no political loyalties - just my two cents worth as a frustrated and slightly obsessed observer from the UK! #braceforimpact",70,2016-04-13 01:16:37 d20xf0c,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,">No matter how much you beg, they'll insist that all food is shitty, and thinking anything different is stupid. Pride. ""How dare you have hope! How dare you do the only thing that could possibly make a difference! If I can't do it, nobody can!"" It's the crabs-in-a-bucket phenomenon. (Where one crab tries to get out, the others pull him back down.)",70,2016-04-13 08:31:50 d20xx5p,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Some ballots for some counties had weird layouts - http://www.asktog.com/images/palmballot.jpg palm beach, the ballot featured here, went 62% to Gore Bush won 15 out of 23 districts, but only won the state by about 500 votes. The state awards all 25 votes based on the popular vote of the state, however. There were several recounts performed several different ways. The Supreme Court didn't recount because so many had already taken place.",69,2016-04-13 09:04:54 d20kaud,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The super delegates aren't ""rigging"" the system. They have never in their history of existence swung a nom away from the pledged delegate leader. The reason why his 7 state win streak hasn't accounted to a huge change in the race is most of those states are smaller states (Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, Wyoming) And the system is rarely a winner take all, and winning by a huge margin in a state worth 20 to 30 delegates isn't worth as much by winning a state worth 300 by the same margin or even a much closer one. For example in New York a candidate winning by 10 points equates to the delegate difference Sanders got in his 59 point blow out in Utah. Wyoming itself being a 7 7 split, and we aren't counting supers since they can change their mind, is that if I understand it correctly they are rationed out through a mix of popular vote and then by congressional districts. but even if you go by the straight popular vote it'd be an 8 to 6 split. ",67,2016-04-13 00:41:50 d210ffi,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The stupidly designed ballots were one thing, but the real travesty in 2000 was how the SCOTUS decision went down. There were two main issues in the decision. First: was it okay to use different standards of counting for different counties? The court voted no, 7–2, because of the Equal Protection clause. So far so good; this was why we didn't have a *partial* recount. But the court also voted 5–4 to halt the *statewide* recount that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered. If the statewide recount had been allowed to continue, Gore would have won by between 60 and 171 votes. What was the reason for the court's vote? Well, the argument on its face was that there wasn't enough time for a statewide recount. If you think that doesn't make a lot of sense (considering the court process itself was taking up time—the halt order came several days before the rest of the decision, during which a lot of counting could have been done), you might be onto something; the court split along party lines.",63,2016-04-13 11:33:21 d20m551,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"ITT: People who think that everybody wants Sander's as president and there obviously has to be something wrong because he's not in the lead. I'm extremely glad there are still enough people in the US with enough sense not to support Sanders. His proposed policies are disastrous. ",61,2016-04-13 01:30:20 d20v4fg,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,">remember 2000? Who won the popular vote that year? Since a lot of people seem not to remember, Albert Gore, Jr. won the popular vote in 2000.",61,2016-04-13 06:22:19 d20ufmu,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Nope. It happened before with Ron Paul with the same excuses: * Lame stream media * The unfair party favouring the establishment * Voter fraud All with the same delusions, the same belief they were 'robbed', the same spamming of friends Facebook pages, the same phonebanking, the same harassing of superdelegates and voting officials. ",61,2016-04-13 05:50:44 d20qpcd,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"So, it's the fault of lazy cynics. I can go with that.",60,2016-04-13 03:36:19 d20uiq8,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I'm getting a Poe's Law contact high from this entire thread. Sarcasm and earnestness have completely eclipsed each other. Everything is serious. Everything is a joke. I give up and surrender my mind to the absence of context.,58,2016-04-13 05:54:27 d20yet2,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"shit winds, Randy",57,2016-04-13 09:37:43 d20szlv,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"""theantimedia.org"" this is how low this sub has fallen",56,2016-04-13 04:52:17 d20v57l,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"People always say this as if it makes it okay. The fact is we have a two party system and both parties have really shitty ways of selecting nominees. The only feasible way to be elected President is to go through the Democrat or Republican process, and seeing as those processes suck then the whole election process sucks. ",53,2016-04-13 06:23:20 d20qxqa,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Let's see. Who do most democrats favor for their candidate? Every poll says Clinton. Who has the most primary votes? Clinton. Who has won the most pledged Delegates. Clinton. Who has a double digit lead in the polls for New York? Clinton. Who is almost certainly going to get the Dem nomination? Clinton It is pretty clear that it is those super delegates that are keeping sanders from winning.",52,2016-04-13 03:43:30 d20sdf2,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Exactly! Dr. Paul had the support, he had the votes. And yet he was shut out. Disgusting!",51,2016-04-13 04:30:20 d20w8wh,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,The Supreme Court said that recounting some of the votes and not all would have been a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. ,50,2016-04-13 07:20:57 d20xs01,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> Social media was non-existent Ssshhhh don't let [him](http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/2372376/84491596.jpg) hear you say that",48,2016-04-13 08:55:18 d20xi3r,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I believe that Bernie is the coconut in this analogy, just look at his head. ",48,2016-04-13 08:37:17 d20wjcm,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Actually, with a first past the post voting system, 2 parties is pretty much inevitable, and getting a 3rd party elected would be nearly impossible: https://youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo ",47,2016-04-13 07:37:34 d20wl5z,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"For the very first time ever, the Supreme Court, and not the Electoral College, determined the winner of the 2000 U.S. presidential election.",46,2016-04-13 07:40:32 d20wru5,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],45,2016-04-13 07:51:42 d20ll1h,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],45,2016-04-13 01:15:53 d20yz4g,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Laugh, or cry. Especially since they also said that their ruling shouldn't be used as precedent for future cases. And that Sandra Day O'Connor went to bed upset that Gore was declared the winner (since she wanted to retire under a Republican president) but then didn't recuse herself from the case. That case should have been laughed out of the court in ten minutes. And they knew it.",45,2016-04-13 10:14:33 d20r385,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Or, perhaps, ""most people don't agree with my choice.""",42,2016-04-13 03:48:18 d20wrzo,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"For me, its two things. (1) there has never been candidates like Sanders and Trump who not only talked the talk that corruption is bad, but also walked the walk by refusing to take money from wealthy donors to fund their campaign, and more importantly (2) they connected me with a silent majority of pissed off voters who actually are against the corruption. I had little hope in our election process and politicians, but I can and do have hope in my fellow American citizens. That way, even if the system is rigged, I think fighting day in and day out with people who care as much as me will keep me engaged, and will keep me engaged even when or if both Sanders and Trump lose. That's different for me. ",42,2016-04-13 07:51:59 d20ssv6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Am I encountering Poe's law, here?",42,2016-04-13 04:45:33 d20y1ep,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,That's a pair of old man underwear.,42,2016-04-13 09:12:51 d210iyf,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Not to mention the blatant collusion they commit to keep down third parties. If any other industry had two corporations with 95%+ of the market behaving in this manor then their would be far more outcry and the government would likely have to get involved. ,40,2016-04-13 11:37:55 d2103r4,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Well they do say: >The American public is dumb as fuck, imo, due to a concerted effort by the political elite and financial elite to eliminate us from the general political environment. Diluting our minds with bullshit and entertainment. But you're right. I think is understandably hard to stomach the idea that a significant demographic of the United States, has values or entrenched beliefs that oppose what would otherwise be common sense public policy (e.g. ending the war on drugs) or ideas that should seemingly be congruent with our codified national principles (e.g. finance reform, NSA spying) or policies that would otherwise be in their self interest. Maybe this is disturbing because it indicates a cultural failure? ",39,2016-04-13 11:17:54 d20vh62,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I'd hardly call the poor election system of Florida a rigged election, assuming you do know what happened in Florida in 2000.",38,2016-04-13 06:39:35 d20xvtk,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The Bush-Gore election was in 2000, three years before MySpace was founded in 2003. Although, even between 2008 and now, I'd say the definition and abilities of social media has grown quite a lot.",38,2016-04-13 09:02:24 d20k4qn,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[removed],36,2016-04-13 00:37:21 d20wpmf,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],36,2016-04-13 07:48:01 d20vd9p,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Thank you for pointing out the weirdly hypocritical racism I'm seeing in thread after thread by Bernie supporters. Clinton apparently needs to be crucified over a joke that is being completely blown out of proportion by five different front page posts. Meanwhile I literally just saw a well-reasoned explanation of why black voters in general might not see eye-to-eye with die-hard Bernie supporters get responded to with the recurring ""Clinton just does well with low information voters/they just vote because they see her name"" bullshit",36,2016-04-13 06:34:17 d20xfjr,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"They victory funds are not made until the party nominates that candidate to run for president. It's unprecedented how early it was created. It allows for super wealthy donors to donate about $350,000/year (2015 and 2015) to a combination of state committees, DNC, and Hillary Clinton's campaign. Doesn't seem too bad, but it is controlled by the Hillary Campaign. All donations given to the state are immediately transferred to the DNC. The DNC/Hillary campaign can then work together in allocating money for state committees based on something like superdelegate support. Maybe not so bad if this was happening during the presidential election, but during the primaries? The DNC is in effect propping up Clinton and offering superdelegate support against any other candidate in exchange for access to all the money from her super wealthy donors. This article is pretty good at explaining this situation. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democratic-party-fundraising-effort-helps-clinton-find-new-donors-too/2016/02/19/b8535cea-d68f-11e5-b195-2e29a4e13425_story.html",35,2016-04-13 08:32:46 d20zqom,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Bingo. Political parties do not exist to appease the people. [Put simply, they exist to get people elected to office.](https://youtu.be/VEmOUHxessE?t=36)",34,2016-04-13 10:59:01 d20v32v,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],33,2016-04-13 06:20:33 d20xexu,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],33,2016-04-13 08:31:43 d20xc4a,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"That's not an example of an election being rigged. That is the Electoral College System. As it was, it could have benefited any candidate. If you say an election is rigged, it means it was deliberately manipulated to benefit one person. The founding fathers didn't design America like it was so 200 years later Bush would be elected over Al Gore.",33,2016-04-13 08:26:38 d20vkli,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,The fact that Bernie actually had a chance is a good indication that the primary isn't rigged. He's losing because he's getting fewer votes. Especially from older voters and minorities. ,32,2016-04-13 06:44:23 d20re0n,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"But I keep seeing posts in reddit that Sanders is winning the national polls, that Clinton's support is collapsing, that Sanders is winning all the primaries and caucuses, and that Clinton is a convicted felon and and probably a child molester. I thought she was only ahead in the delegates becasue she won all those super delegates in a coin toss.",32,2016-04-13 03:57:51 d20vge0,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> By the way, remember 2000? Who won the popular vote that year? I'm not sure this is the argument Bernie supporters want to make right now. Isn't his plan to convince superdelagates to give him the election despite being 2.4 million votes down (including caucuses)?",31,2016-04-13 06:38:33 d20wo9b,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"People are claiming corruption because they don't understand the system, which is admittedly confusing in many ways, and because their guy isn't winning. The leftists want Bernie to have any advantage he can get to catch up, and the right has Trump wanting to change the rules when they don't suit him (with his supporters happy to take up the victim role). The only reason we're even seeing this is because there's no consensus candidates yet in this year's shit show primary circus, and only a few media outlets were really making a serious attempt at reporting either race as being as undecided as they actually were for most of the year. Perception is reality in politics, and the only perception anyone was being given is that Hilary's already campaigning for November, Trump had already won the nomination 100 delegates in, and the system is broken if any results are unexpected. The whole thing is a disaster, but not because the system's not working. Everybody is banking on public discontent, for votes or for ratings, and are making people distrust that the system is doing what it should be all while the encourage everyone to support their team's part in it.",31,2016-04-13 07:45:45 d20vc91,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I don't understand how people can claim fraud and that the voters are still voting the way we see in the same post. It's either one or the other. Don't blame the politicians for representing their people. Blame the people. Pay attention to how divided people are these days and how that correlates with how divided our legislature is. The only time anything gets done is when people don't care or compromise happens and that's when people claim corruption.,30,2016-04-13 06:32:51 d20zn4n,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Holy shit, that meme is so out of touch it's hosted on ebaumsworld ",30,2016-04-13 10:53:34 d20t6x6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"As someone not in the US, do you know if it's true that in most other countries, political parties don't even *hold* primaries, and they largely decide their candidates at conventions and the like? Because if so, that makes our current process more democratic than most, even if not perfect.",29,2016-04-13 04:59:52 d20xbqx,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Everything is more readily accessible with shit analogies. Cause everybody, fundamentally, understands shit.",29,2016-04-13 08:25:56 d20wc3e,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Seriously. Is that so hard for people to get? People aren't saying Ron Paul would have won if the Party hadn't shat all over him, they're saying it was wrong of them to do that regardless. Jesus Christ.",29,2016-04-13 07:26:02 d20up36,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It's both. It's not that he would have won if he had a fair shot, it's that he didn't even have a fair shot.",28,2016-04-13 06:02:30 d20wqjt,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],27,2016-04-13 07:49:33 d20wuhe,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I watched a nifty youtube video explaining past the post voting and how it will always end up with two parties. Pretty enlightening since I never thought about how and why we only have two. Edit: Of course it was [CGP Grey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo) ",27,2016-04-13 07:56:03 d20w84o,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> The problem is that we're beholden to a two-party system. We're not beholden to a two-party system. There's nothing stopping a group of people from forming a viable third-party, except the hard work and time commitment. This is why the Green Party is a joke, something which pops up every four years so some people can feel superior to the political process by saying, ""hey, I voted for the Green candidate."" But where's the Green Party the rest of the time? Is it working to elect Green mayors and school board members and Governors? Is it building a national, small-donor fund raising base around a coherent, well-advertised core set of beliefs? No, because no on involved is serious about it. It's the same with people who complain that the system is rigged. We live in a participatory democracy. Want to change the system? Take five of your friends along to your next local Democratic or Republican party meeting and get involved. Get each of your friends to bring a friend. Stay involved, make the hard time and effort commitment and by the time the 2018 midterms roll around you'll probably have some say in how things run. Keep bringing friends, and friends of friends and by the time the 2020 elections are here you may actually be able to influence things. Do this over and over and you will make a difference. But it's gonna take a lot of your time and effort. It will require late nights and weekends and less time spent in Fallout 4, or whatever you do for fun. It will mean you sometimes miss hanging out with friends, or taking weekend trips, or whatever else would fill your time. It will mean you take politics as seriously as all the people who you think are now rigging the system. And, yes, the influence of money is outsized, and yes, there is corruption and venality and the entire host of human sin. But that's been true of politics back to the Romans and Greeks. Don't let that stop you. Want to change things? Then go and do it. You will learn as you go. Look at what happened when Dean lost in 2004: the structure put in place to elect him, and the people behind it, continued to work and took over the Democratic party from within. The Blue Dogs, and useless assholes like Joe Lieberman, were kicked the fuck out, and the Democrats steadily become more liberal than they've been in decades. There's nothing stopping Sanders supporters from doing the same thing except for apathy. I don't mean to rant, but I get pissed of when people say, 'oh, the system is rigged! It's unfair!' The 'system' is composed of people, just like you, who have decided to get involved. They don't have any special knowledge you can't get from being involved as long as they have. There are no barriers to entry except you deciding you'd rather stay uninvolved and complain.",26,2016-04-13 07:19:49 d20wl6k,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],26,2016-04-13 07:40:33 d20w7li,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Explain what happened? ,26,2016-04-13 07:18:57 d2117yy,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/ That's a common misconception. The full truth is that a statewide recount could have gone either way. But Gore was only asking for a recount of a few districts. Such a recount wouldn't have swung enough votes to overcome the amount he lost by. A full recount would have been a flip of the coin requiring additional recounts. ",26,2016-04-13 12:06:55 d211jnu,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Which is entirely inconsequential since the system was not designed to award the election to the winner of the popular vote in order to ensure representation of the needs of those in less populous regions which can differ vastly from those in cities.,25,2016-04-13 12:19:26 d20xbs1,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,But how many times has the electoral college determined the winner of the 2000 US presidential election?,24,2016-04-13 08:25:59 d20t53p,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,wouldn't be a /r/politics thread without a shitty clickbait article and a low effort shitpost in response.,23,2016-04-13 04:57:56 d20wv82,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"2016? You must be referring to 16 year-old Americans. For starters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount ",22,2016-04-13 07:57:21 d20ygr9,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,The problem with your argument is that there are issues that an overwhelming majority agree on. Getting money out of politics is one of those issues.,22,2016-04-13 09:41:14 d214fik,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"David Foster Wallace wrote about the self-defeatist attitudes of modern day cynicists: > Anyone with the heretical gall to ask an ironist what he actually stands for ends up looking like an hysteric or a prig. And herein lies the oppressiveness of institutionalized irony, the too-successful rebel: the ability to interdict the question without attending to its subject is, when exercised, tyranny. It [uses] the very tool that exposed its enemy to insulate itself. > Irony and cynicism were just what the U.S. hypocrisy of the fifties and sixties called for. That’s what made the early postmodernists great artists. The great thing about irony is that it splits things apart, gets up above them so we can see the flaws and hypocrisies and duplicates. The virtuous always triumph? Ward Cleaver is the prototypical fifties father? ""Sure."" Sarcasm, parody, absurdism and irony are great ways to strip off stuff’s mask and show the unpleasant reality behind it. The problem is that once the rules of art are debunked, and once the unpleasant realities the irony diagnoses are revealed and diagnosed, ""then"" what do we do? Irony’s useful for debunking illusions, but most of the illusion-debunking in the U.S. has now been done and redone. Once everybody knows that equality of opportunity is bunk and Mike Brady’s bunk and Just Say No is bunk, now what do we do? All we seem to want to do is keep ridiculing the stuff. Postmodern irony and cynicism’s become an end in itself, a measure of hip sophistication and literary savvy. Few artists dare to try to talk about ways of working toward redeeming what’s wrong, because they’ll look sentimental and naive to all the weary ironists. Irony’s gone from liberating to enslaving. There’s some great essay somewhere that has a line about irony being the song of the prisoner who’s come to love his cage. That's why when the Snowden thing went down, every second comment on Reddit was, ""Duh, *I knew* that already, and if you didn't you must be a dumbass.""",22,2016-04-13 13:48:21 d20vqjs,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,They haven't realised shit.,21,2016-04-13 06:53:00 d20zm6s,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,When Ron Paul decided to write articles for a white power magazine he gave up actually ever being president.,21,2016-04-13 10:52:05 d20zuai,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],21,2016-04-13 11:04:23 d20wlur,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I tried talking to my friend about politics and he played banana phone on youtube and attached his mic to his speaker so that he couldn't hear me. It was like a little kid covering his ears and screaming ""I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALA"" He's almost 30 and married, living in Southern California. Fancy education, nice job, practically lives on the internet. Really he has no excuse. He won't vote, or he will vote for Trump because his friends think it's funny. So I can understand the sentiment.",20,2016-04-13 07:41:42 d20xtlm,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"A close election where Florida wanted to perform a partial recount. Florida was reported to go for Bush, and if it went to Gore it would have changed the election results. The Gore Campaign wanted a recount of the most contested districts (where, presumably, Gore preformed best). There was all kinds of publicity about voter confusion and paper ballots that weren't counted because of ""hanging chads,"" The little circular bits of paper that don't fall off and just dangle by a paper thread when you don't hole punch strong or fast enough. The Florida Supreme Court said a partial recount was kosher under the Florida Constitution and Florida State Law. The Supreme Court said, by 5-4 vote, that the fact that it was a federal election meant it wasn't just a matter of Florida law, and then said that a partial recount violated the US Constitution. Rather than drag out the election for a recount of all Florida ballots, the Gore campaign conceded. *Bush v. Gore* is generally taught in law school as one of those cases that has literally no applicability outside its instant facts, and not just because the conservative and liberal justices ruled contrary to their respective longstanding principles in the matters of federalism and Equal Protection. ",20,2016-04-13 08:58:16 d20u0pp,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],20,2016-04-13 05:32:55 d20woha,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],20,2016-04-13 07:46:08 d20x7mw,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I thought it was a pretty shit analogy ,20,2016-04-13 08:18:41 d210nod,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Yeah, if he was talking about Trump, he'd have made it an orange tree",20,2016-04-13 11:43:45 d20wkjk,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],19,2016-04-13 07:39:30 d20y8kz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],19,2016-04-13 09:26:22 d20qrc6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"If by ""rigged"" you mean ""many voters have been lazy cynics"", I agree. Democracy only works when people get involved.",18,2016-04-13 03:38:00 d20yvlr,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Well obviously he went on to be president... right guys?,18,2016-04-13 10:08:13 d20xyc5,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Other countries don't even see it as an issue. Party leadership is viewed as a wholly internal matter, and a big part of that is because they figure that stuff out independent of national elections. They figure that if you want to be involved in politics, you would get involved in politics instead of bitching about the whole thing 24/7.",18,2016-04-13 09:07:06 d20xle6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,So what you're saying is vote Sanders? I'm hearing vote Sanders.,18,2016-04-13 08:43:13 d20x5r4,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"In my 34 years on this earth, it's amazing how spot on this description is-- Bernie has been the first turd I've seen that looked edible and I might actually make an effort to try out..",18,2016-04-13 08:15:18 d20z9p7,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,You really are into denying responsibility of the voters for this mess.,18,2016-04-13 10:32:38 d210nu6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"""You can have it it in any color you want, as long as it's black."" ~Henry Ford on the Model A",18,2016-04-13 11:43:57 d20vwv8,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Jesus Fuck. They're not rigged. 1) We're talking about the nomination process, which really isn't an election. It's a hybrid process that involves some party machinations, primary elections and caucuses. 2) Rigged means someone controls the outcome. There is absolutely zero evidence that someone is controlling the outcome of the nomination. 3) Just because your guy isn't winning doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against him. Maybe he just isn't as popular as you think!",17,2016-04-13 07:02:29 d20vo5y,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,">Hillary victory fund, and so much more... What about the fund ""rigs"" anything? ",17,2016-04-13 06:49:30 d20x7nq,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I'd say the first openly socialist, Jewish, and perhaps first nearly non religious candidate to ever get this far - that's pretty big. No one has proposed such huge changes to our government before either, no one has been this leftist before. No one has proposed free college or been so anti- intervention in military matters. Plus his donations - almost none are from corporations. It's definitely historical. And it's certainly unique. ",17,2016-04-13 08:18:43 d20xihj,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It's funny because Ralph Nader pretty much presented a crystal-clear demonstration of it in 2000. That said, there's nothing stopping third parties from mounting serious challenges in congressional or smaller races, especially in gerrymandered ""safe"" seats. That's how Britain and Canada have multiple parties despite first-past-the-post systems. Supposedly it's because they have parliamentary systems where the equivalent of Congress chooses the head of government, not the people directly, but the Founders envisioned Congress, not the President, holding most of the power, and it was really only in the twentieth century that Congress became completely neutered. Yet third parties act like it's ""President or bust"" and whine when they never get anywhere. Is the first-past-the-post system ideal? Of course not. But third parties could have gotten quite far if they'd just bothered to play by the rules of the game.",17,2016-04-13 08:37:55 d20wzlb,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I do not agree with everything Trump stands for, but I can tell you right now.. Honestly, i was burned real bad after voting for Obama, and watching him play cozy with the banks (who funded him), play Mr. Nobel Peace Prize (and then lead a force into Libya).. And then trying to get us to invade Syria... And then give Americans the idea that he fought for marriage equality (when he only sat on the sidelines and let the Supreme Court take the case)... Which means, that in reality, if the Supreme Court never took the case... After an 8 year Obama presidency, we would just have gays openly serve in our military. He gave up so fast in pushing for a government health insurance.. He attacked more whistleblowers than any other American president in the past, and deleted from his website portion he had on government whistleblowers... ... He never fought to reconcile racial issues, and most African Americans would say that now is one of the worst times in terms of race relations in the last 50 years. There is a Black Lives Matter movement surging under a Black president... He never stood up for the 4th Amendment and our Bill of Rights when it mattered. In fact, many times, his administration openly defied it. He wasn't honest about the extent of the NSA's spying. He made huge mistakes by surrounding Russia with MORE NATO allies. Pushing us to the brink of another Cold War with an insanely powerful former adversary... He armed Syrian rebels who ended up changing sides mostly to extremist elements and had major flaws in strategic military campaigns (which I could elaborate more on). That is why I don't trust Hillary Clinton. She is of that politician stock. She is more deeply entrenched in the corruption and political elitism than Obama ever was before he became president. And now he is advocating for a fast track on the TPP (which is a debacle in and of itself). Gosh, his presidency changed my views. I trust Sanders and I trust Trump because at the very least they are exposing the 2 party corruption just by running for their respective nominations",17,2016-04-13 08:04:44 d210ifo,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"This. I'm so tired of people who jump into this conversation and try to shut the whole thing down by saying that the problem purely comes down to voter apathy/agency as if nothing else matters. It's the easiest thing to say and what does it actually accomplish in the conversation? What are we supposed to do about this if this is the real problem? Hope that each and every person, no matter what their situation is, just decides to get engaged and not just vote, but spend a ridiculous amount of time researching candidates? And then somehow we just keep hoping that this continues every generation when the statistics have been consistently going against that trend? We have to work under the assumption that SOMETHING can be done or we might as well just give up on democracy officially.",17,2016-04-13 11:37:14 d20ywax,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Bernie/Trump 2016,16,2016-04-13 10:09:31 d20w2ez,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Yeah, anybody who still thinks America's running anything even remotely like a legitimate and fair democratic process after that debacle isn't going to be convinced by this one. Those people wouldn't be convinced even if it were fucking Oceania incarnate because they'd still probably just assume everything is always ""the other guy's"" fault, whoever that may be.",16,2016-04-13 07:10:55 d20wymp,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Its current year.,16,2016-04-13 08:03:06 d20wb1e,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Al gore won the popular vote but wasn't elected president.,16,2016-04-13 07:24:25 d20xvfo,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Except when the people in charge of who gets onto the debates is run by both establishment parties, The Commission for Presidential Debates. They've essentially made it impossible for any other outside party to debate and the ones who DO get in have to play by their crooked rules. To say they have nothing to do with the primary is absolutely ridiculous. ",16,2016-04-13 09:01:44 d210d3i,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Whatever personal responsibility each and every voter has, you can't deny that most American news media has been crap for the past decade, and that Fox News in particular could ever, at all, be considered a reputable source-- unless you are writing a research paper discussing how fucked up that news channel is.",16,2016-04-13 11:30:24 d20udtx,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I don't think that his policies are disastrous. But I also don't for a moment believe Sander's has the political capital necessary to push through a minor budget reform, let alone sweeping legislation like he proposes.",15,2016-04-13 05:48:31 d20wtmc,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,nothing new just more people are paying attention,15,2016-04-13 07:54:39 d20vqz5,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It was disgraceful, and served as a lesson to question MSM at all times. Dr Paul is a genuine human being. I feel the same vibe with Bernie, and although I don't agree with all of his political philosophy, I know he means well for his fellow man. Especially when you look at his voting record.",15,2016-04-13 06:53:40 d20x1cr,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I think a lot of Bernie voters were Obama voters who got disillusioned that the promised hope and change didn't happen. No public option even when the Dems had the House & Senate. ,15,2016-04-13 08:07:37 d20wzrc,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> Pretty enlightening since I never thought about how and why we only have two. It's really astonishing that understanding this is not a part of elementary education in the US. Unsurprising, but astonishing nonetheless.",15,2016-04-13 08:04:59 d20y1nq,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,So why was the order for stopping the recount altogether instead of recounting all the votes?,15,2016-04-13 09:13:17 d20xwcs,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Of course things would change if everyone voted, but then something needs to change to get people voting again. The analogy ignores why people settle for ""shit"": there's no dilemma there, no acknowledgment that what they'd been eating has been sustainably edible (if not particularly palatable) or that risking climbing the tree for the coconuts in their weakened state might really do more harm than good.",15,2016-04-13 09:03:22 d211j4v,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Thank you. This is exactly what I believe in as well and why Clinton should not take the Whitehouse for 2016. She is a candidate that will maintain the ""status-quo"", and will not create any policies that, a) fix the rising income inequality b) reduce corporations risk taking activities c) Campaign financing etc. d) special interest influence These problems are huge and we need someone like Sanders to shake up the system and fix these issues. The way we view it should not be ""oh Sanders is unrealistic and his policies will not pass"". Much like you said, he is doing SOMETHING and that is better than the nothing that is currently being done. Too bad the American people are blind and vote mostly be name recognition and #imwithher hashtags. ",15,2016-04-13 12:18:54 d20wdyb,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Look, it's great that people have a candidate they are excited about. But if he or she loses, then maybe that's an opportunity to either A. commit to redoubling your efforts next time or B. reevaluate your position. This idea that everyone must be cheating because your favorite guy might lose is staggeringly self-centered.",14,2016-04-13 07:28:58 d20jyck,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"~~Superdelegates~~ Party elites that would qualify as superdelegates haven't determined the democratic nominee for president since Hubert Humphrey in the 1960s. Fun fact, Clinton had the majority of superdelegates in 2008...right up until Obama got more votes and they switched to him. If Bernie achieved a convincing victory, the superdelegates would switch to him, but winning Wyoming is not the kind of convincing victory that would make superdelegates switch. ",14,2016-04-13 00:32:33 d20zlfa,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Yes. But lobby groups will ensure that any effort to that end end up benefiting the existing players. And, in the event someone threatens the profits of those players by not playing ball, the media will make sure to fire up public opinion against the reform that is in the public interest... So that the ""reform"" that is in the establishment interest will go forward. You can have whatever reform you want, as long as things stay the same.",14,2016-04-13 10:50:50 d2105pz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Are you serious? Where the hell was everyone in 2000?!,13,2016-04-13 11:20:29 d20ylxe,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,ITT: a bunch of people who have forgotten about the debacles in 2000 and 2004. ,13,2016-04-13 09:50:33 d20knmy,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It's always been clear, but I'm glad it's a focus and more people are talking about it and fighting it. We need to keep fighting simply because they don't want us to.",13,2016-04-13 00:51:24 d20zgsm,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Wait, does history repeat itself if we don't learn from it?!",13,2016-04-13 10:43:38 d20k77w,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[removed],13,2016-04-13 00:39:08 d212y7a,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> the federal government would be within it's power to break them up Lol into *what,* exactly? ",13,2016-04-13 13:07:19 d214lkj,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"As much as I hate Trump, the worst part about him is still the party he is running for.",13,2016-04-13 13:52:37 d20xm2x,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"England is first past the post as well... They just have a lot of 3rd party support, which forces them to form coalitions. However, it's looking like the third party experiment is dead now and it's back to just 2 parties. Because the 3rd party which was very liberal, sided with the conservatives to give them the seat, in return for their support on some liberal issues. Instead, the conservatives thanked them, then continued to completely ignore them and never fulfill their promises. Now people don't care for third party. ",13,2016-04-13 08:44:25 d20ylcd,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> At the end of the day, the party picks who they are going to run. Exactly, the process was never meant to be a democracy.",13,2016-04-13 09:49:32 d20zdtz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It's not inevitable in local and state elections. Third party candidates have won at that level. The infrastructure at the federal level required is both exorbitantly expensive and monumental - the best a third party can ever hope for at that level is to one day win enough of the vote to secure public financing. But at the local and state level, third parties can and have been elected to public office. At the federal level, change has to come from within the party - a liberal equivalent of the Tea Party to push their agenda. Edit: a word",13,2016-04-13 10:38:57 d21320q,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Indeed. [Newsweek ran a piece on it.](http://www.newsweek.com/truth-behind-pillars-155985) > Sitting in her hostess's den, staring at a small black-and-white television set, she visibly started when CBS anchor Dan Rather called Florida for Al Gore. ""This is terrible,"" she exclaimed. She explained to another partygoer that Gore's reported victory in Florida meant that the election was ""over,"" since Gore had already carried two other swing states, Michigan and Illinois. > Moments later, with an air of obvious disgust, she rose to get a plate of food, leaving it to her husband to explain her somewhat uncharacteristic outburst. John O'Connor said his wife was upset because they wanted to retire to Arizona, and a Gore win meant they'd have to wait another four years. It was a pretty awful moment of naked partisanship. No wonder she regrets it.",13,2016-04-13 13:10:29 d20v1ma,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[Yep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlJkgQZb0VU),12,2016-04-13 06:18:38 d212elw,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Except in the case of the Republican side, the Candidate with several million more votes has lost an entire state due to the RNC straight up shutting down any delegate who voted for Trump. ",12,2016-04-13 12:49:55 d20vev5,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Haha yea, those millennials must be naive if they don't blindly accept what the political establishment tells them. Millennials - WAKE UP and just accept whatever you're told. Be smart like us older (thus wiser) people. We have years of experience in bending over and taking it, so just trust us on this when we say it's not *that* bad! ",12,2016-04-13 06:36:27 d20wrmd,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],12,2016-04-13 07:51:21 d20utt2,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Honestly, I upvoted when he made the comment that old people shouldn't be voting because they are old. Then I realized it was satire and felt better about my decision. Edit: originally incoherent",12,2016-04-13 06:08:32 d20yxi0,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Ahh I can see the condescension just *oozing* from this comment.,12,2016-04-13 10:11:37 d20y6bm,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,The long con?,12,2016-04-13 09:22:13 d20uwjs,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Welcome to America.,12,2016-04-13 06:12:02 d211ltc,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],12,2016-04-13 12:21:39 d2112x7,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I come from an immigrant family (hispanic) and they are more conservative than I am. They only watch the news from Univision, and barely use the internet. When I speak without being confrontational and present my argument in a well reasoned way, its not very hard to change my parents minds on some issues. I think it can be done amongst the wider populace, we just have to be vocal, level headed, and have strong arguments for our points. Oh and we need to stop giving up hope every five seconds, the fights of the past were harder than the uphill battle we are facing. ",12,2016-04-13 12:01:17 d20wzk4,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Way more people have voted for Clinton. Sanders has benefited waaaaay more from undemocratic elements of our system, namely caucuses. If this process was more democratic, Clinton would be winning by even more.",11,2016-04-13 08:04:40 d20vdv5,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"2016 a reminder that people are completely ignorant about the difference between an election and a primary contest involving private organizations that does not have to be democratic. The ignorance on the subject is astounding",11,2016-04-13 06:35:04 d20yy8d,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[deleted],11,2016-04-13 10:12:59 d20xvgo,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I mean, do other countries even get to choose a party nominee? Like, in a parliamentary system the party chooses someone to represent them and they will be the candidate, but technically you are only voting the party into power. At least in America we vote for the man, I think that's something. I could be wrong on this BTW, that's just how I understand it.",11,2016-04-13 09:01:46 d20xxmm,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Absolutely wrong. Just ask the UK Independence Party, who won the third-largest share of votes in last year's elections but won a grand total of one seat because they weren't strategic in where to drum up support, just like American third parties. The Scottish National Party, on the other hand, got the FIFTH-largest share of votes but the third-most seats, because their support is (obviously) concentrated in Scotland where they can actually win constituencies.",11,2016-04-13 09:05:46 d211hrn,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,I'M WATCHING YOU JULIAN. LIKE A SHITHAWK.,11,2016-04-13 12:17:30 d20uy5w,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,They've been rigged since sometime between 1828 and 1948.,10,2016-04-13 06:14:09 d20uh4v,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"To be fair Sanders has been claiming fraud since the beginning, that's most of his platform xD",10,2016-04-13 05:52:35 d20x0qz,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Part of it is that. The other part (majority) is that most people hate the government and know it's corrupt, but ""it's the other party doing it so it's their fault"" 99% of the time you tell a conservative/liberal that ""insert corrupt politician did this"" they will respond with ""yeah well this politician from the other party did it too"". Half of this country thinks it's the Obama government ruining the country, and that corporations are actually victims of the government evil regulations. ",10,2016-04-13 08:06:36 d20whc4,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,More people didn't vote than voted for either candidate in every election in your lifetime.,10,2016-04-13 07:34:25 d20y2jw,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Shitposting aside, is it really hard to believe that social media and the vast increase in usage of the internet since 2008 (last popular elections) really do make a difference? ",10,2016-04-13 09:15:00 d20zc2j,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Sandroids said the same thing about the gay vote too. Bernie's support gay rights longer than Hillary so gay people OWE Bernie their vote. Crazy shit.,10,2016-04-13 10:36:13 d20xcxi,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"We deal with shit everyday. If you can't relate you are probably a lizardman. I linked it to [/r/bestof](https://redd.it/4eknh0), because of how relate-able and well explained it is.",10,2016-04-13 08:28:06 d20ylcg,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Which of the two parties that enact the education curriculum do you expect to add it to the agenda?,10,2016-04-13 09:49:32 d210xlc,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"How do you know how much Gore would have won by, or even if he would have won at all?",10,2016-04-13 11:55:16 d212cl8,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"The scotus thing was fucked up but not as fucked up as Jeb (!) Bush purging 20,000 African American voters from voter registration records in the months leading up to the election. He handed Florida to his brother. ",10,2016-04-13 12:48:04 d20tych,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"People forget, parties are not associated with the government. What they do to choose a nominiee is party business. In many cases thank God they have stop gaps, Trump is dangerous. That said there are lots of parties find the one for you or be independent. Is the two party system messed up? You bet! But short of a parlementary system or government rules on who can and cannot run two parties are inevitable. Perhaps simple spending caps for parties across the board could open the field up? IDK. But the nomination system is not rigged, the rules are established, many to depose fringe candidates who can't win the general, but the rules are the rules. Party nomination was never Democratic and it can't be unless we involve the government. That said a trump nomination is good for the Democrats. We would get the house , Senate and the Whitehouse. At least until the midterm elections when only the old Republicans care to vote. ",9,2016-04-13 05:30:11 d20wzmk,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"They waggin' the dog to keep our minds off of Snowden. Trump's claims are entirely unrealistic and although Bernie's ideas are grounded in solid long-term thinking, federal agencies' agendas are well aware of the fact that Congress is stacked against him and that Democrats don't vote in the midterms. The Feds are banking on a one term president whom will have no effect on the continued eroding of our civil liberties. It's win-win because if an ""outsider"" wins they won't have the political support to change a damned thing and if an insider wins it's a shortcut to continuing the goal of citizen control. The missions of agencies like the FBI, CIA, and NSA are to blame, the people pulling the strings are, against all calls to moral and ethical decency, hiding behind the cliche of ""just doing their job"". Life in the US is just good enough that we don't vote and politicians play that against us because when do vote the timescale of change de-motivates us because there is not gratification/change on a timescale that we are satisfied with.",9,2016-04-13 08:04:48 d20xl0g,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"You're so effing niave. Obama was funded by a large banking super-PAC and military industry super-PAC. So there really was no reason to rig the election if the corporate donors already had ""their guy"". On top of that, he was insanely charismatic and was able to pull in tons of donations from the general public. He trounced Clinton in the South early and fought her off easily. It isn't easy to rig an election when you're getting your ass beat. But when shit is hair-thickness close and when a candidate wins 6 coin tosses in a row, and when pledged super delegates openly endorse the political insider and give the illusion that Clinton is winning by 400+ delegates so why even bother... And when Clinton breaks the law with her private email server (impropely handling confidential information) and she still gets to run completely unscathed from the justice department. Aaaand, let's not forget what's happening on the RNC side... Where random state GOP councils are openly changing the rules on delegates, preventing delegates from voting, and privately choosing new delegates in order to broker the convention. Please quit spewing this bullshit that everything is fine with the state of our democracy. Because it is not. There is something deeply DEEPLY wrong with the way Americans and our mass media are dealing with this issue. There shouldn't be a two party system choosing the candidates they want. They can't use rules written over 40 years to save their party from anti-establishment, populist candidates. And what's scariest of all, is that we have Americans thinking that this is okay. Wait until your ideal candidate is running. Wait until he/she has a majority of the vote, and watch as the political elite of their respective party come in and snatch it away from you with legal notepads and rules they pull out of their ass. Trump isn't perfect. Neither is Sanders. But there is something deeply wrong when we see the mass media and political elite openly attack, slander, steal, and lie their way into making us choose between one of their corporate puppets",9,2016-04-13 08:42:32 d20v455,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"As a Canadian I wish you guys would give it a rest! Its crazy how long it takes you people to choose which liar will be pitted up against which psycho/moron. It's like two election seasons back to back. It's like they designed the system to annoy and bore the voters so much so that when the time comes to actually vote nobody cares anymore, they just want it to be over.",9,2016-04-13 06:21:57 d211vl2,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> prove that they are committing election fraud. Oh, cool, if you can prove it, then we don't even need to have this discussion, just provide your proof and we'll be done.",9,2016-04-13 12:31:33 d20yqv3,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Technically in the UK we don't ever vote for a Prime Minister. Our local elections are actually to decide which candidates we elect to become members of Parliament and represent the local constituency. The Prime Minister once this is said and done is the person who is able to command a majority in the house of commons as decided by those elected to represent us. I personally think that the methodology of electing primary candidates and then the focus on the presidency is a entire show that distracts from the important business of electing the legislature branch of government and the people that really represent the local areas.",9,2016-04-13 09:59:35 d20xym6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I think everyone would love to have affordable, quality health care. ",9,2016-04-13 09:07:38 d2134b5,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> So you run back and tell your friends the news. There's food! We just have to drop our shitty food and work together. Some are excited and eager to help... > ...but others aren't so quick to join. ""What's wrong with the shitty food?"" ""I'm sure there's shit on those coconuts somewhere!"". ""We need to drink this piss, since it contains wasted vitamins and salts to keep us alive!"" > Some even insist there isnt, nor was there ever any shit on the food as they smear turds around their mouth, staring at you with mad eyes. > So you and a few friends run off to try and get those coconuts. And while you flail and jump, the shit eating survivors will laugh and jeer. No matter how much you beg, they'll insist that all food is shitty, and thinking anything different is stupid. > That's voter apathy to me. That's more apt as a description of the effect of social media and echo chambers. Everybody is so quick to blame ""all the other media"" while holding their own choice, whether it's a niche podcast, the sum of their twitter feed's opinion, or a major news network, up as the one true standard. And because we have constant feedback from that chamber we're never short of the reinforcing opinion that we're solidly in the right about our particular political views. And that's: 1) a self-wrought problem, not one of ANY establishment, since the information is out there for someone to find (even if as a conglomerate of several sources And 2) isn't going away on its own. It requires a deep cultural shift in the appreciation and evaluation of information. (And with no conspiracy necessary, such critical thinking skills are very difficult to teach in a standardized educational setting, or at the very least aren't being taught at the moment.   In the end the guys who keep eating the shit don't ""suspect"" there's also shit on the coconuts, they're *absolutely convinced* that even attempting to reach for the *assuredly shit covered* coconuts is utterly mad and proves your unfixable stupidity... and will constantly remind each other of the correctness of their factual opinion.   I see the danger of 2016 less so in some ""suddenly"" crumbling or corrupt system -- one need only be a student of history to find much more laughably corrupt periods in US history, much less in everyday news from around the world -- but that this ""collapse"" is an inevitable self-fulfilling prophecy as every political sway from left to right gets better and better at reinforcing extremism (from the people themselves!) The response so far to the Internet age and the massive influx of dissenting opinions that threatens traditional definitions and boundaries on the political spectrum is to try to tighten the grip and indoctrinate further, to enforce such steep silo walls and cognitive dissonance to make people cling to a political platform, all evidence to the contrary be damned. Yes, that involves mass media voices and some intent behind the party apparently, but it's still a subtly and importantly different issue than merely the corruption of the top rank of politicians",9,2016-04-13 13:12:24 d20zvz8,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Finally, someone gets it. It's the narrative that's making people crazy. One month onto the primaries, it was a Hillary-Trump general as far as the media was concerned. Anything that might upset that has been framed as ""cheating."" It's nonsense.",9,2016-04-13 11:06:58 d211d43,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Ebaumsworld....now that's a name I havn't heard in a long time...,9,2016-04-13 12:12:30 d20zw1t,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Propaganda is a powerful tool. ,9,2016-04-13 11:07:04 d210kup,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,do you know what a shit barometer is?,9,2016-04-13 11:40:16 d20rssh,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"I love how certain candidates claim fraud when they start losing. Maybe certain candidates should wake up and realize that they might not be as popular as all the yes men who surround them say they are. Oh and by the way Trump can eat a big fat dick, and hopefully choke on it! ",8,2016-04-13 04:11:05 d20wmy3,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,In what possible universe is this true? If the system were rigged Clinton would have won in 2008. Your conspiracy theory doesn't even survive the *last contested election.*,8,2016-04-13 07:43:31 d2110bp,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"You're mistaking what they are legally obligated to do with what people demand from them regardless of the law. They are under the impression that they are electing their parties leadership and representation. After all, why would you support an organization that lied to you? So when people discovered that this was a sham, they're understandably furious. But far more importantly, if the nominations aren't our choice, what kind of choice to.we have in the general election? It absolutely has ramifications down the road.",8,2016-04-13 11:58:21 d20ri4f,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Thanks for the try, but you are smart to be expecting downvotes.",8,2016-04-13 04:01:31 d211cwf,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,It wasn't even merely FL. Bush lost the popular vote on the whole. It was the electoral college + florida's fraud that got him in. ,8,2016-04-13 12:12:18 d20zl7y,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Yea Sanders would be winning if it weren't for the repeal of the Three-Fifths Compromise!,8,2016-04-13 10:50:33 d20twd6,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"Sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct one. But I think you might get voted down for this. It's not popular to say some people might actually like Hilary cause she benefits them, and their success. ",8,2016-04-13 05:27:56 d20xcd9,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"It happens. The electoral college isn't decided by popular vote. It actually happens in other countries all the time, especially ones with more than two parties.",8,2016-04-13 08:27:05 d20yo03,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,[You can start here](http://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/472fj6/why_isnt_bernie_sanders_doing_well_with_black/d09sdaw),8,2016-04-13 09:54:25 d20vp1u,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"> Yeah. It makes sense. I still think having corrupt politicians is bad for all of us, except for the very wealthy, but I can understand that people aren't quite so willing to rock the boat as I am. C'est la vie. If Bernie supporters really think like this then no wonder her success against him is a mystery. Hillary supporters 1) don't buy media/internet hype about her scandals because we've seen it since the 90s and 2) aren't wealthy but mostly middle class but just don't believe that they will get enough benefit from his benefits plans to make up for $1-2k extra in taxes every month. Sorry, but you are right that its a cost benefit equation and most people don't think a big cost is worth an uncertain benefit. ",8,2016-04-13 06:50:45 d20z7u2,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,Here you go: [Bush v. Gore](https://youtu.be/z3os_Vw1Eoo),8,2016-04-13 10:29:41 d20xpka,4ej2b8,2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged,"You're not approaching this from the right perspective. Sanders supporters are voting for him on principle. You can't plead your case to them by asking them to sacrifice their principle, otherwise Hillary would be the perfect alternative. To people who care, public option was non-negotiable. ",8,2016-04-13 08:50:46